1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,960
Speaker 1: Turn up, Die, feel the vibe, Get ready to adnight,

2
00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:09,160
Untold Stories in the Airways, Flying through the.

3
00:00:09,279 --> 00:00:16,719
Speaker 2: Night, Experience Voices, Tale, soap streaming and life Truth dumbfoone

4
00:00:17,679 --> 00:00:19,760
until Wadi Network.

5
00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:26,079
Speaker 1: The Secrets Come high episode Day, the Mystery Strive, Great guess,

6
00:00:26,199 --> 00:00:31,719
super Shad so I remember, I Sharing, subscribe, Join the

7
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,399
side where truth can't hide.

8
00:00:36,759 --> 00:00:39,320
Speaker 2: In the eye of foes.

9
00:00:39,079 --> 00:00:44,799
Speaker 1: In the sky, crypts, Lark can't go my Oline, Ghosts

10
00:00:44,799 --> 00:00:52,600
in the hallway, whispering your name, Paranormal beyond explain, Come

11
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,439
of me, I pin, get the ins, scoop, unlock the mysteries,

12
00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,759
be part of the group, streaming stories and talking to you.

13
00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,319
Speaker 2: Super Child's buzzing, Join up.

14
00:01:06,359 --> 00:01:11,319
Speaker 1: Group Home told me Netlace, the secrets come the Life

15
00:01:11,519 --> 00:01:12,239
No let.

16
00:01:12,159 --> 00:01:17,280
Speaker 2: The Susday Leave the Mysteries by a great guest, super Chet.

17
00:01:17,519 --> 00:01:21,400
It's a lot ever shared subscribed on the side. What

18
00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,680
you're gonna a go If you've got the guns.

19
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,400
Speaker 3: And you want to explore.

20
00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,120
Speaker 1: And sold, that's what y'all looking for.

21
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,079
Speaker 4: Ellis the ghost and all that's unseen.

22
00:01:33,599 --> 00:01:37,879
Speaker 2: I'n told me on Network where the lost Mysteries.

23
00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:57,039
Speaker 5: Boom, stop stop stop, stop, snowing stomp Sto Stot Stops.

24
00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,080
Speaker 6: Good morning everybody, and welcome to this week's episode of

25
00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,680
the Paranormal Spectrum here on the Untold Radio Network. I

26
00:03:08,879 --> 00:03:12,400
am your host, Barnaby Jones from Cryptids, Anomalies and the

27
00:03:12,479 --> 00:03:17,840
Paranormal Society. Ladies and gentlemen, Today's show is pre recorded,

28
00:03:18,039 --> 00:03:20,719
so we are not live in studio if you're watching

29
00:03:20,759 --> 00:03:24,159
this at our regularly scheduled time, and that's why we're

30
00:03:24,199 --> 00:03:28,319
not replying to your questions or comments. So with that

31
00:03:28,479 --> 00:03:30,360
being said, guys, if you want to meet my team

32
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,080
in person, we are going to be at Contact Modalities

33
00:03:34,319 --> 00:03:39,800
Expo May first through the third in Delavan, Wisconsin. Myself

34
00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:45,159
and fellow Untold Radio host Dean Bertram will be in attendance,

35
00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:50,039
as well as my guest today, Jack Chavez, is going

36
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,840
to be at this event speaking as well as some

37
00:03:53,039 --> 00:03:57,439
of my former guests, Jaybachochin and Zach Screedy, Trey Hudson,

38
00:03:58,039 --> 00:04:00,520
and so many more names. We're not going to go

39
00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,319
through mall, but amazing lineup of people going to be

40
00:04:03,319 --> 00:04:08,240
at this event. Then, guys, the following weekends, Saturday May ninth,

41
00:04:08,319 --> 00:04:11,879
we are going to be in Fondilac, Wisconsin for the Cryptids,

42
00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:18,279
Anomalies and Paranormal Convention with over twenty speakers and workshops

43
00:04:18,439 --> 00:04:22,439
for your entertainment and education, as well as over forty

44
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,839
vendors for your shopping and entertainment entertainment.

45
00:04:27,079 --> 00:04:27,399
Speaker 3: There you go.

46
00:04:27,639 --> 00:04:31,319
Speaker 6: We kick off Friday afternoon with a kids Bigfoot expedition

47
00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,839
led by myself, Chris McCreery and Lauren Smith. Unfortunately Kelly

48
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,720
cannot make it, she had to back out of this event.

49
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:44,240
And then for the more adventurous Friday evening, May eighth,

50
00:04:44,399 --> 00:04:47,240
we head out with Lauren, Chris and myself will be

51
00:04:47,319 --> 00:04:51,399
joined by Jay Bachocin, Ken Gerhard, Larry Eisler, and Christina Bloom.

52
00:04:51,519 --> 00:04:54,199
So if you want to join these expeditions, tickets are

53
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:59,000
still available. Then guys, we head down to the Paranormal

54
00:04:59,199 --> 00:05:03,839
Chicago Invention Saturday June thirteenth in Countryside, Illinois, and my

55
00:05:03,959 --> 00:05:06,720
guest today runs this event, so we'll talk more about

56
00:05:06,759 --> 00:05:08,959
that in just a bit. Then, guys, we head to

57
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:15,319
the Brownsville Library June seventeenth, the Cedarberg Library July twenty second,

58
00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:20,480
Potographs Packerland Paranormal Conference that is a tongue flister. There

59
00:05:20,519 --> 00:05:25,720
you go. September twenty sixth in Green Bay, Wisconsin, the

60
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,079
Ryo Community Library October twenty eighth, and of course the

61
00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:34,639
Belleville Public Library just before Halloween on Friday, October thirtieth.

62
00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,079
There we go, guys. So with that being said, we

63
00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,759
have an awesome guest joining us again here this year

64
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:46,000
to talk all about the Chicago Paranormal Convention and the

65
00:05:46,079 --> 00:06:05,439
Men in Black. My guest today is Jack Javes. He

66
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,879
is a multi faceted author, paranormal investigator, and dedicated seeker

67
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,839
of the unexplained who serves as a prominent voice in

68
00:06:12,879 --> 00:06:16,319
the Midwest haunting scene. As the host of the Paranormal

69
00:06:16,439 --> 00:06:20,079
Chicago Convention and the podcast Channeling Javes, he brings a

70
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,240
deep seated curiosity to everything from local legends like Resurrection

71
00:06:24,399 --> 00:06:26,600
Mary and the Lincoln Park ghost stories to the chilling

72
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,199
Great Lakes Mothman phenomenon. Beyond his work as a tour

73
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,360
guide and frequent convention speaker, Jack's research extends into the

74
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,439
unsettling world of cryptids like the Rake, the pale Crawlers,

75
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,480
and all things pertaining to a profound interest in the

76
00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,519
diverse religious practices and spiritual traditions of around the world.

77
00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,199
Whether he is guesting on a popular podcast or investigating

78
00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,720
regional lore. His work is defined by a tireless drive

79
00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,839
to bridge the gap between historical mysteries and modern high strangeness.

80
00:06:57,319 --> 00:07:00,879
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the show, Jack Javez, Hey Jack,

81
00:07:00,959 --> 00:07:01,560
that's going.

82
00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:07,120
Speaker 3: Hey, Barnie we Man. That was the longest introduction experienced

83
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:08,759
on a podcast.

84
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,199
Speaker 6: You know, if you'd send me your own I wouldn't

85
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,160
have to write it and make you sound better than

86
00:07:14,199 --> 00:07:14,480
you are.

87
00:07:14,639 --> 00:07:21,759
Speaker 3: So there you go. Look at it. Your poor audience,

88
00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,319
it's like ten minutes in had to deal with all

89
00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:24,519
of that.

90
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:27,920
Speaker 6: Do you do you know why we do that?

91
00:07:28,639 --> 00:07:28,920
Speaker 3: Tell me?

92
00:07:29,959 --> 00:07:34,079
Speaker 6: Because the show goes live. I mean today is we're prerecorded,

93
00:07:34,399 --> 00:07:38,639
but on the live shows because people get notifications that

94
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,120
the show is going live, so we stall in the

95
00:07:41,199 --> 00:07:44,600
beginning so the audience catches up and doesn't miss anything.

96
00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,120
Speaker 3: You want want to be a stand corrected. I was

97
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,279
wrong and you were right.

98
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,959
Speaker 6: I know this is marketing. You gotta And then we

99
00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,120
have people have mentioned that that the show intro is

100
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,800
very long and stuff, and that is the reason why

101
00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,800
is because when the notification goes Untold Radio Network is

102
00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,199
live and you tune in and you've missed the whole

103
00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:09,639
introduction of who they're talking to and what they're talking about.

104
00:08:10,399 --> 00:08:11,120
That's why we do it.

105
00:08:11,399 --> 00:08:13,519
Speaker 3: All the comments that you get about that, that's all.

106
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:19,079
Speaker 6: Mean, they're all anonymous, But I know who anonymous is.

107
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:24,399
Speaker 3: You got me, man, You know that that bile of myself. Man,

108
00:08:24,439 --> 00:08:26,959
that was great. Actually, that was that was actually one

109
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,199
of the best that I've ever heard.

110
00:08:28,959 --> 00:08:29,560
Speaker 6: You're welcome.

111
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:30,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't deserve it.

112
00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:37,600
Speaker 6: He's for you man after the show as well. Actually, yeah,

113
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:42,960
I want to use that. Well for those of you

114
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,919
who don't know Jack Chavas, I mean, you've been on

115
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,799
my show multiple times every year. Here we have you

116
00:08:47,879 --> 00:08:50,600
back on to promote your event, and you do. I

117
00:08:50,799 --> 00:08:52,799
gotta say, you do an amazing job with your event.

118
00:08:52,879 --> 00:08:56,120
There's not many events with free parking in the Chicago

119
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,360
Land area. On my last show here we talked about,

120
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,159
you know, come for the free parking, stay for the event.

121
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:09,039
You know, you have an awesome event coming up here. Again,

122
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,039
what is this a fifty year.

123
00:09:14,879 --> 00:09:17,120
Speaker 3: Man, I don't know it's about about that.

124
00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:19,679
Speaker 6: Yeah, you were running two a year at the beginning,

125
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,080
but now they're just one a year, so I think

126
00:09:21,159 --> 00:09:26,480
he was actually, oh wow, wow, Yeah, that's a lot.

127
00:09:26,919 --> 00:09:30,440
So Chicago Paranormal grew up. I always say Chicago Paranormal

128
00:09:30,519 --> 00:09:32,720
and i've i've I've learned that it's not it's the

129
00:09:32,879 --> 00:09:34,440
paranormal Chicago correct.

130
00:09:35,039 --> 00:09:38,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, because uh, Chicago Paranormal was copyrighted, so I got

131
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:39,000
to use.

132
00:09:40,639 --> 00:09:44,240
Speaker 6: See the more you know the Paranormal Chicago Convention Saturday,

133
00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:49,639
June thirteenth, Countryside Banquet and Convention Center in Countryside, Illinois.

134
00:09:49,759 --> 00:09:52,159
You got a great lineup of speakers again and vendors

135
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:52,919
tell us all about it.

136
00:09:53,879 --> 00:09:56,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, we we have a we do have a great lineup.

137
00:09:56,919 --> 00:10:00,720
One of our speakers is Miguel Connor. He wrote the

138
00:10:00,879 --> 00:10:06,519
book Elvis and the Elvis and the Occult, and it's

139
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:11,600
about just that it's Elvis press these connections to the

140
00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:16,960
occults and if you are thinking this connections, yeah, there's

141
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,360
actually a lot of connections. And he writes all about him.

142
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,000
Miguel was a great guy. I met him, oh gosh,

143
00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,840
maybe about two years ago. He was doing a lecture

144
00:10:26,919 --> 00:10:29,159
on his book, and then him and I really hit

145
00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,000
it off after his lecture, and we've since become friends.

146
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,720
And now he's going to be a speaker talking about

147
00:10:35,799 --> 00:10:41,879
his book. He hosts a radio show called aon Bright

148
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,440
that's A on A E O N. And it's about

149
00:10:47,039 --> 00:10:52,440
gnosis or nacissism, which is a kind of a pre

150
00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:58,279
Christian tradition that segued into Christianity. It's like a Christian mysticism,

151
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,120
some would call it. But yeah, So we're going to

152
00:11:02,159 --> 00:11:06,200
have Miguel with them re quote, and then after that

153
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:11,360
we're going to have Eric Nansteele. Eric wrote a book

154
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:17,000
called The Blood Covenant, and Eric is an alien abductee

155
00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:24,879
and so the book explores his speculation and what the

156
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:32,039
extraterrestrial agenda is without giving too much away, but it

157
00:11:32,159 --> 00:11:38,240
has to do with blood and covenants. And he also

158
00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,919
has another book where he actually talks about his abduction

159
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,759
experience called Angst in the Shadows, a true Story of

160
00:11:45,799 --> 00:11:52,559
Alien abductions. So both books I read fantastic books. And

161
00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:55,039
then I also have a doctor Joel Ramsey.

162
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:55,960
Speaker 4: Uh.

163
00:11:56,159 --> 00:12:02,320
Speaker 3: Doctor Ramsey is a psychologist parapsychologists, and he's going to

164
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,480
be talking to us about the world of parapsychology and

165
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:12,399
how science approaches paranormal phenomena. And then I have Kate Hilger.

166
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:19,200
Kate is a holistic educator and holistic practitioner. So she

167
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:27,039
does sound healing or vocal healing and past life trauma.

168
00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,559
So she's gonna be talking to us about her experiences

169
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,320
and yeah, oh and then one more.

170
00:12:35,919 --> 00:12:43,480
Speaker 6: And then my last Yeah, just one more there. Yeah,

171
00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:49,159
but certainly not least one of.

172
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,960
Speaker 3: Our best speakers is going to have mister Barnaby Jones.

173
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:54,600
That's you, sir.

174
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,840
Speaker 6: This is the first time he's left me off things,

175
00:13:03,919 --> 00:13:07,080
so you know, yeah, and.

176
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:12,519
Speaker 3: You're gonna be talking about Bigfoot, yes, And I want

177
00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,720
to tell the audiences. Sure, there are a lot of

178
00:13:16,039 --> 00:13:18,679
Bigfoot presentations out there, and there's a lot of videos

179
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,440
that you could find on YouTube, but my understanding is

180
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,840
that you really are going to go more a little

181
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,879
bit more in depth than what you would get on

182
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,600
your average presentation on big Foot.

183
00:13:29,159 --> 00:13:32,960
Speaker 6: Right, That's that's my goal. Each year I Jack has

184
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,919
requested a brand new presentation of me, and this year

185
00:13:37,159 --> 00:13:40,039
will be the first time talking about Bigfoot a deeper look,

186
00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,000
and it's going to go into more of you know,

187
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,960
why we don't have bodies, where are the photographic evidence,

188
00:13:47,039 --> 00:13:49,440
why people don't come forward? You know, more of the

189
00:13:49,759 --> 00:13:53,399
scientific backing of it, and you know, a deeper look

190
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,600
into the whole phenomenon instead of just like, oh well

191
00:13:56,639 --> 00:13:57,679
there was a sighting.

192
00:13:57,639 --> 00:13:57,799
Speaker 4: You know.

193
00:13:58,759 --> 00:14:02,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to that because you know,

194
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:07,960
it's those are questions that I think the average person has,

195
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,519
but like it's never really addressed by the researchers. So

196
00:14:11,879 --> 00:14:13,279
that should be really interesting.

197
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,840
Speaker 6: It'll be a good presentation, brand new for anybody that

198
00:14:16,919 --> 00:14:19,600
has seen me before. This is a brand new presentation.

199
00:14:19,759 --> 00:14:23,720
There you go, Jack tell us how people can get tickets,

200
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,279
where it's going to be, and any other vendor information

201
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:28,759
as well well.

202
00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:32,240
Speaker 3: So it's only a one dollar entrance fee, so you

203
00:14:32,279 --> 00:14:34,480
don't get tickets online. It's just at the door. It's

204
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,759
literally just one dollar. I mean, you can't beat it.

205
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,519
It'll be just as it says right there, Saturday, June

206
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:45,360
thirteenth at the Countryside Banquet and Conference Center. And it's

207
00:14:45,399 --> 00:14:49,200
a large black union building. And so what you do

208
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,919
is you drive around the back and around the back

209
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,840
of the building is the entrance to the building. And yeah,

210
00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,879
it's a I'm going to have ninety vendors there, approximately,

211
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,759
I should say approximately ninety vendors there. There's gonna be

212
00:15:05,159 --> 00:15:09,120
how many presentations Barnaby five? I thank you, yeah, five?

213
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:15,480
Presentations and there would be food there, there would be snacks,

214
00:15:16,639 --> 00:15:18,399
and yeah, it's gonna be a good time. It always is.

215
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,720
Speaker 6: It definitely is. And I can vouch for Jack that

216
00:15:21,879 --> 00:15:24,919
when when he says about ninety vendors there's I mean,

217
00:15:25,039 --> 00:15:29,039
it's the entire place. It's a huge conference at like

218
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,360
a big gymnasium, huge and it is full. Every every

219
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,080
vendor spaces is full there. So unless someone you know

220
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,639
can't make it and doesn't show up, but otherwise it's

221
00:15:38,679 --> 00:15:42,120
it's packed. So definitely definite worth dollar and the trip

222
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,840
to come. So yeah, awesome, Jack, Awesome. Well, I will

223
00:15:45,879 --> 00:15:49,840
look forward to it. Always a good time, always fun

224
00:15:49,919 --> 00:15:51,480
hanging out and torturing you in person.

225
00:15:51,639 --> 00:15:55,320
Speaker 3: So you know, sometimes I get nightmares, like if you

226
00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:00,120
were to tell me actually yeah, I like like like

227
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,320
if you were to not show up, I'm sick. I

228
00:16:04,399 --> 00:16:05,159
don't know what I would do.

229
00:16:07,039 --> 00:16:07,919
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't.

230
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 3: Well, I should say actually the audience is probably wondering

231
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,679
why I say that, because Barnaby has really been instrumental

232
00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:18,360
in helping out at the convention, Like he's you know,

233
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,840
the what do you call it it guy?

234
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,720
Speaker 6: The av audio Radio.

235
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:30,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, Barnaby has helped out with a V. I mean,

236
00:16:30,279 --> 00:16:32,919
you know, I'll find somebody else. I'll be fine, but

237
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:34,759
you know he does help out a lot.

238
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,159
Speaker 6: Hey, the first year that you were at this place,

239
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,960
you couldn't even get the guy that you paid to

240
00:16:39,039 --> 00:16:43,480
be there to do. Is just I mean, you're really

241
00:16:43,639 --> 00:16:46,519
lucky I showed up that year because you know, I

242
00:16:46,679 --> 00:16:49,639
basically ran your presentation stage and I've kind of done

243
00:16:49,639 --> 00:16:51,679
it ever since, so it's just kind of I walked

244
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,320
into the role. Now I'm stuck with it.

245
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,799
Speaker 3: So this is true. I actually paid somebody to be there,

246
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,639
and it was one of the staff members of the venue,

247
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,679
and they did not show up. And they said that

248
00:17:03,879 --> 00:17:05,759
they actually said, I don't know if you know this, barn.

249
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,119
They said that they never met up with me either.

250
00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:13,519
Speaker 6: I from from being a presenter, I've worked at a

251
00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:15,279
lot of you know, a lot of conventions in you

252
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,000
two as well, you know, and you know when we

253
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,359
go to these events, it's always like a roulette shoot

254
00:17:21,519 --> 00:17:26,160
whether there's a projector or a microphone or anything's gonna work.

255
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,039
So I just started bringing all my own stuff. And

256
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,079
this is why, like you know, between me, actually, I'm

257
00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:33,960
going to give a shout out because that first year,

258
00:17:34,599 --> 00:17:36,960
I didn't bring a projector and we ended up using

259
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,640
Chad Lewis's. Oh yeah, so his projector that year. But

260
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,200
ever since then we've been said, Yeah, that first year

261
00:17:46,319 --> 00:17:46,839
was rough there.

262
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:48,720
Speaker 3: I remember.

263
00:17:49,079 --> 00:17:51,759
Speaker 6: Not your fault, not your fault. You paid the guy

264
00:17:51,839 --> 00:17:52,359
to be there.

265
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:52,319
Speaker 2: And.

266
00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:55,799
Speaker 3: I did get my money back, but I was not happy.

267
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,640
Speaker 6: That's good, and I did get a bonus, you know,

268
00:17:58,720 --> 00:17:59,160
So there we go.

269
00:17:59,279 --> 00:18:00,279
Speaker 3: We're good. They there you go.

270
00:18:00,519 --> 00:18:08,519
Speaker 6: Yeah, yep, all right, enough of this foolery. Uh Mac.

271
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,640
For as much as we screw around on here, I mean,

272
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,759
you are a very well read, well researched, well educated

273
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,119
man of the community here. I mean you've you've done

274
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,720
so much research on all kinds of topics. Letting, as

275
00:18:20,759 --> 00:18:22,759
I said in your your bio and stuff. You've you

276
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,079
lead tours, ghost tours and historical tours and stuff around Chicago,

277
00:18:27,319 --> 00:18:29,519
and bus tours and all kinds of stuff. You know

278
00:18:29,559 --> 00:18:32,680
what you're talking about. And I saw recently you were

279
00:18:32,759 --> 00:18:37,160
at the Starved Rock Convention in Illinois there and gave

280
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,440
up presentation on something that we haven't talked about at

281
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,559
all on our show. So today I want to talk

282
00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:42,839
to you about the Men in Black.

283
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I don't. I don't think I'm that educated,

284
00:18:45,839 --> 00:18:48,839
but I certainly do my research when I'm interested in something,

285
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,359
you know, and the men in black is a really

286
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:57,359
interesting phenomena because it's you know, it's associated with the

287
00:18:57,799 --> 00:19:03,759
with the UFO phenomena. However, it's my opinion, and I

288
00:19:03,839 --> 00:19:07,519
could be wrong that it doesn't stop at UFOs. I

289
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:12,480
think it goes in a lot of other directions. For example,

290
00:19:12,759 --> 00:19:15,400
in the presentation that I just gave at Starved Rock

291
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:20,559
Starved Rock State Park in Illinois, is the minute black

292
00:19:20,759 --> 00:19:25,279
may be associated with fairy lore as well, and there

293
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:31,599
is a lot of examples in fairy mythology of these

294
00:19:31,799 --> 00:19:40,720
black clad beings that people encounter. The there is in Celtic,

295
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:46,319
in British mythology, there is the the the the old

296
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,880
Hag that is by a river and she's in like

297
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:56,920
a black cloak, and individuals will pass by and she

298
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:03,079
basically she's an omen for or their misfortune or for

299
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,240
their death. Well, people might say, well, how is that

300
00:20:06,319 --> 00:20:09,279
connected to the men in black? Well, first of all,

301
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:15,599
the black clad attire and also men in black they

302
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,160
have been known to cause misfortune or to cause bad

303
00:20:19,319 --> 00:20:24,559
luck to people. So there is definitely a psychic events

304
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,960
to the Men in Black. When people think of the

305
00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:32,240
Men in Black, they think of the nineteen ninety seven

306
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,880
Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones movie where they are

307
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,640
secret government agents. Well, I'm not denying that there are

308
00:20:40,759 --> 00:20:45,079
secret government agents involved. I just don't think that is

309
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:50,720
the case all the time. I think there is something

310
00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:54,880
other going on. And I use the word other like

311
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:59,319
a capital O. And hold on, barnaby, I need to

312
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,200
plug in computer because it's about to die.

313
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:09,799
Speaker 6: All right, I'll let you guys. Just for everybody listening,

314
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,759
we are pre recorded today. So if you have questions

315
00:21:12,839 --> 00:21:14,720
or comments throughout the show and we happen to be

316
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:17,240
ignoring them, it is a you know, we're not ignoring you.

317
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,599
We are just not live today in the studio. Bed

318
00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:23,920
in mind as we go forward here with Jack, as

319
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,160
soon as he gets his up set back up, there

320
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,240
we go. So, Jack, let's let's back up here to

321
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,640
the very beginning in your research and your understanding. Where

322
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,640
do you see like the first recorded instances of these

323
00:21:36,839 --> 00:21:40,640
these beings or people, entities whatever showing up and referenced.

324
00:21:41,559 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing. If we're going to the more

325
00:21:43,839 --> 00:21:47,119
traditional approach of the men in black. Then we need

326
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,799
to go to the nineteen fifties to Albert Bender. Albert

327
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,759
Bender was a scientifiction enthusiast and he was also interested

328
00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:01,920
in the UFO phenomena. And Albert Bender had an organization

329
00:22:03,079 --> 00:22:08,319
and that organization I have it here is called the

330
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:16,359
International Flying Saucer Bureau or IFSB for sure. Albert Bender

331
00:22:16,599 --> 00:22:21,519
also was the editor of a newsletter called Space Review. Well,

332
00:22:22,039 --> 00:22:27,559
what ended up happening is these men in black would

333
00:22:27,599 --> 00:22:31,079
approach him and they would tell him that he needs

334
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:37,839
to close down his organization, which was basically it was

335
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,880
a UFO club where people would get together discuss UFOs

336
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,880
and he didn't listen, and they appeared to him a

337
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:51,720
couple times. And what ended up happening is eventually he

338
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:58,599
did close the organization and it wasn't until nineteen sixty two,

339
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,160
I believe, yeah, in nineteen sixty two that he wrote

340
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:08,200
a book called Flying Saucers and the Three Men. And

341
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,920
Barnaby was that Gray Barker who wrote it about Albert

342
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,880
Bender or Albert Bender that actually wrote a juno. Okay,

343
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,839
well it was one of those, because I get to

344
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,480
Gray Barker in a second. But in nineteen sixty two,

345
00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:29,720
a book came out called it was called you Know,

346
00:23:29,839 --> 00:23:32,240
the Flying Saucers and the Three Men, And basically what

347
00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:37,799
the book was about was what happened during that time

348
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,160
when the men, these men in black, these men they

349
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,759
were dressed in like black suits, white shirts, black tie,

350
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:52,519
what happened when they would approach Albert Bender. And basically

351
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:58,319
Bender talks about how very strange things would happen. They

352
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,839
would harass him, tell him to close down his organization.

353
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,960
But he said that sometimes they didn't speak verbally to him,

354
00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:12,799
but telepathically, and that they seem to have a robotic

355
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:26,839
nature as well. Eventually, Albert Bender became ill, he physically ill,

356
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:33,839
and this induced fear within him. It induced paranoia, and

357
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,039
so that's why he actually did close down his organization.

358
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:44,640
And then you get Gray Barker, another UFO researcher who

359
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:49,960
knew Albert Bender. Now Grey Barker, it's a little Grey

360
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,000
Barker is an interesting character because he was a sensationalist

361
00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:58,559
and he did write several books. But it's really hard

362
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,720
to take what he said very seriously because he would

363
00:25:01,839 --> 00:25:10,000
mix truth with exaggerations. And the famous researcher paranormal researcher

364
00:25:10,079 --> 00:25:13,400
John Keel even talked about this because he knew Great

365
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,519
Barker as well. But yeah, to your question, I would

366
00:25:17,519 --> 00:25:21,359
say the Men in Black they go back to the fifties,

367
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,000
but like I said, they could go back possibly even

368
00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:25,559
older than that.

369
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 6: And you had mentioned like the fairy lore stuff and

370
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:35,480
the links there. Do you have like very similar occurrences

371
00:25:35,559 --> 00:25:38,200
in that, like are people that are interested in fairies

372
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,279
or stumble on fairies or something, are they approached by

373
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,640
these beings the same way like told to leave it

374
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,200
alone or threatened?

375
00:25:47,519 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 3: You know, that's a really interesting question actually because not

376
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,880
exactly like the Men in Black phenomena, but you do

377
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:01,640
have a lot of fairies, fairy and counters and people

378
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:06,960
that I've talked to myself where the fairy creature or

379
00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:10,480
being i should say, will say something something to the

380
00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:16,000
effect of, you know, either you saw nothing here, or

381
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,920
you know you won't see me again, or you know,

382
00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:23,519
things like that, things that are kind of similar to

383
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,680
what the Men in Black are saying when they say

384
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,279
you didn't see a UFO, don't talk about your UFO siting,

385
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:37,799
you know, things of that nature. You know, Actually, Nick Redfern,

386
00:26:38,039 --> 00:26:43,039
the well known paranormal researcher Nick Redfern. He collected a

387
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,319
story and honestly, I don't know his source for this.

388
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,119
I tried looking, I couldn't find it. But he has

389
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:55,960
a story that in Wales nineteen o nine there was

390
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,680
a mass sighting of several orbs and they weren't necessarily

391
00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:03,200
UF foes because they were very low to the ground,

392
00:27:03,599 --> 00:27:08,799
but they were orbs. And after this mass sighting, a

393
00:27:09,319 --> 00:27:15,000
black clad man descended into the town with a horse

394
00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:19,599
and he galloped from from one house to another, and

395
00:27:19,759 --> 00:27:22,039
he would knock on a door and he would tell

396
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,559
people not to talk about their experiences. So you know,

397
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,599
if that, if that's true, then that's definitely like a

398
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:35,119
one for one Men in Black antecedent, kind of.

399
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 6: Like a reverse Paul Revere.

400
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, actually, yeah, the British.

401
00:27:43,039 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 6: Becoming Yeah, that's really interesting. So okay, so again you

402
00:27:51,079 --> 00:27:54,559
brought up John Keel. John Keel mentions in his book,

403
00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:56,720
you know, like the Mothman prophecies and stuff he has

404
00:27:56,799 --> 00:28:03,200
run ins with not just what's his name, the one guy,

405
00:28:03,319 --> 00:28:04,799
but also the men in Black.

406
00:28:08,279 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 3: What guy?

407
00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 6: I can't think of his name? Indried Cold, Yes, Indured Cold,

408
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:14,160
thank you.

409
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:15,599
Speaker 4: So it was.

410
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 3: It wasn't Keel that that ran into Injured Cold, but Rugel.

411
00:28:19,799 --> 00:28:26,279
Darren Berger had encounters with with this alleged Injured Cold character,

412
00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:31,880
and John Keele interviewed rujol Derrenberger a couple couple of

413
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,400
different times. Now, for those that don't know, Darren Berger was,

414
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:37,839
you know, he was just kind of like a regular

415
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,119
guy living in Point Pleasant or near Point Pleasant, West

416
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,359
Virginia during nineteen sixty six during the uh the Mothman

417
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,559
flat but everybody was seeing Mouthman in the hundreds and

418
00:28:50,599 --> 00:28:52,920
darren Berger said that he was driving along the road

419
00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:59,799
and a ship descended and a smiling man approached to

420
00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:05,240
his vehicle wearing shiny clothes, and you know, the man

421
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,119
actually just made small talk with darren Berger. It was

422
00:29:09,279 --> 00:29:16,920
not much more to that. It wasn't until succeeding encounters

423
00:29:17,519 --> 00:29:22,240
with darren Berger, I'm sorry with Injured Cold that Darren

424
00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:25,720
Burger would like be on his spaceship and he would

425
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,200
take him around the galaxy and you know all sorts

426
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,720
of you know, crazy things like that.

427
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 6: So there's a whole story behind that. I mean, like

428
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,480
it went on for years, and you know, they had

429
00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:40,680
anner of the podcasts the whole Yeah, the whole injured

430
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,160
cold thing is. But okay, so maybe correct me if

431
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,759
I'm wrong. Was there not men in black involved in

432
00:29:45,839 --> 00:29:48,039
the whole Mothman thing? Because I thought that they had

433
00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:50,519
showed up at the newspaper as well.

434
00:29:50,559 --> 00:29:53,119
Speaker 3: There. Yeah, there was a lot of men in black

435
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,720
sightings during the period of nineteen sixty six to nineteen

436
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:02,400
sixty seven in the Point Pleasant area. Mary Hyer, who

437
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:09,200
was a reporter journalist in Point Pleasance, said that a

438
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,200
man came into her office and was asking about witnesses

439
00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:19,759
for these for the mothman sightings and UFO sightings, and

440
00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:24,240
he he seemed very odd. He seemed out of place.

441
00:30:25,039 --> 00:30:27,039
And it was a lot of things like that that

442
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:35,480
she was talking about. But you know, I mean, here's

443
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,880
the thing, Barnaby. I mean, we could go on and

444
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,960
on about the men in black sightings in that time,

445
00:30:40,039 --> 00:30:44,519
but basically how they were summed up during this nineteen

446
00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:48,400
sixty six to nineteen sixty seven period and even later on,

447
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:56,559
is they they were seen as not quite human. And

448
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,359
I actually have a couple quotes if I could read

449
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:04,640
to you so regarding descriptions of the men in black.

450
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,000
Here's a quote, right, here. They looked like men, but

451
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,000
they did not act like men. Another one is their

452
00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:17,519
clothing often seemed new, ill fitting, as if they did

453
00:31:17,559 --> 00:31:21,680
not quite understand how to dress like human beings. Another

454
00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:24,759
one goes, some of them did not seem to know

455
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,920
how to eat or drink properly. Another goes, the phenomena

456
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:36,119
are not extraterrestrial. Their ultra terrestrial. That's a quote by

457
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:40,200
John Keel. I get to ultratreustrial in a second. But

458
00:31:40,359 --> 00:31:44,079
another quote goes, they asked questions that didn't make sense,

459
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,680
like they didn't understand what they were asking. And lastly,

460
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,519
that one that I collected was they seemed to be

461
00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:56,480
acting out a role as if following a script. So

462
00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:00,680
do you see what I mean Where it's they're human,

463
00:32:01,319 --> 00:32:06,039
they but off they're not totally human. And that one

464
00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:10,359
bit about they didn't seem to know how they how

465
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,240
to eat or drink something, well, there's a great example

466
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,680
of that. One of the witnesses that encountered the men

467
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,720
in black. You know, they're over here knocking on the door.

468
00:32:20,279 --> 00:32:22,440
They want to be let in. They're let in, and

469
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:28,440
they're offered jello, and he has a jello and a

470
00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:31,920
utensil in his hand, but he didn't know how to

471
00:32:32,359 --> 00:32:34,079
it seemed like he didn't know how to use it,

472
00:32:34,599 --> 00:32:39,160
so he just swallowed the jello whole. And you know,

473
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,599
it's things like that, very peculiar things. Examples like they

474
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,079
didn't know how to use a pencil or pen things

475
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,920
like that. A lot of times Men in Black are

476
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:58,240
described as not or described as speaking monotone, seeming to

477
00:32:58,319 --> 00:33:02,640
have a very robotic voice. There's this one example, and

478
00:33:02,839 --> 00:33:06,519
then in the sixties where the Men in Black is

479
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,920
harassing a UFO witness and they're being you know, they're

480
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,799
being shouted at, and they're being told not to talk

481
00:33:13,839 --> 00:33:17,519
about their experience. And in the midst of this, his

482
00:33:17,799 --> 00:33:22,000
voice changes and becomes even more robotic and he says,

483
00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:27,039
very peculiarly, I have to go. My battery is running out,

484
00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:33,200
and he storms out. So and you know, another really

485
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,960
interesting thing about the Men in Black is it's a

486
00:33:36,079 --> 00:33:46,240
misconception that they are constantly harassing people. Sometimes they actually

487
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,079
just go to a witness's home and ask some questions

488
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:57,680
about their experience and then leaves. And then also it's

489
00:33:57,799 --> 00:34:07,359
also a misconception that they tell witnesses like don't talk

490
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,159
about your experience oftentimes they just want information and then

491
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:12,440
they go.

492
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,679
Speaker 6: So have there been any encounters or experiences with the

493
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,000
Men in Black where they're like benevolent where they help

494
00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:22,360
people or anything.

495
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 3: Where they help people?

496
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 4: No?

497
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 3: Actually not to my knowledge now that Like I said,

498
00:34:32,039 --> 00:34:38,159
there are experiences that are not unpleasant. Yeah, an official No.

499
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:45,360
Has there has there been any reports of while witnessing

500
00:34:45,519 --> 00:34:49,519
a craft or extraterrestrial being or citing or something, and

501
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:54,480
these things show up while it's happening. Well, let me

502
00:34:54,519 --> 00:34:57,000
ask you, do you know of any examples of that?

503
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,079
Speaker 6: Well, if I wouldn't ask you up the example, Oh

504
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,119
you literally, I.

505
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:06,599
Speaker 3: Thought I thought you were going somewhere with that.

506
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 6: I have some stories of like people seeing like the

507
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:16,039
military at a location, you know, like craft recovery or

508
00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:19,119
something like that, and the Men in Black are there

509
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:20,599
with the military.

510
00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:25,119
Speaker 3: Okay, I like stories like that. What I thought you

511
00:35:25,199 --> 00:35:26,400
were going to say, I thought you were going to

512
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,159
because I don't have specific examples, but I have read

513
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,039
many times that they will. The men in Black will

514
00:35:37,079 --> 00:35:42,519
show up the same day sometimes that the UFO experience.

515
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:47,760
Witnesses saw the UFO, and witnesses will be like, well,

516
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,039
I haven't even told anybody yet so how did how

517
00:35:52,119 --> 00:35:54,920
did they know? So that, you know, there are examples

518
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,880
like that, but not while the experience is happening to mine,

519
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,360
you know. No, but that's the that's the thing about

520
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:09,000
this whole phenomenon. It's so tricky and it's so knvoluted,

521
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,119
and that's that's why, you know, it's it's hard to

522
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,800
say anything with certainty, but for your example that you're giving, no,

523
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,639
I'm not familiar with that. But but right afterwards, Yeah,

524
00:36:25,199 --> 00:36:27,239
the phantoms in your house are slimming. Yeah, let me

525
00:36:27,519 --> 00:36:27,800
hold on.

526
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,760
Speaker 6: Jack has a paranormal apartment there and the doors just

527
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,119
keep slamming. That's that's the men in black trying to

528
00:36:38,119 --> 00:36:38,679
shut him up.

529
00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:43,679
Speaker 3: Okay, sorry about that. It's the I says, the men

530
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,000
in black trying to shut you up.

531
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:45,199
Speaker 4: There.

532
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, probably we're gonna get.

533
00:36:47,199 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 6: Gagged and dragged off screen pretty quick here.

534
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 3: That'll makes you a good movie, it would.

535
00:36:52,360 --> 00:37:00,519
Speaker 6: Yeah. Uh, we'll plan that next time. So anyway, okay,

536
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,320
so tell me a little bit about the men in

537
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,360
black in general, because what I've heard, and you know, again,

538
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,880
correct me if you've you've read differently, but there seems

539
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:15,360
to be again usually two one is short. One is taller.

540
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,960
One usually talks, the other one is more like a

541
00:37:18,079 --> 00:37:19,079
muscle kind of person.

542
00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:22,079
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. I mean, here's the thing. That is the

543
00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:25,039
case sometimes, but that's not the case all the time.

544
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:30,159
Sometimes they look identical to each other. And you know,

545
00:37:30,519 --> 00:37:33,639
actually that's I'm actually glad that you asked that, because

546
00:37:34,199 --> 00:37:38,760
that will segue into another phenomena that has taken place.

547
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,840
That it is, my opinion, is similar to the Men

548
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:46,000
in Black. Are you familiar with the phantom social worker phenomena?

549
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 2: No?

550
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:54,559
Speaker 3: No, no, So the phantom social worker phenomena is really interesting.

551
00:37:54,639 --> 00:38:01,440
So what happened is in the eighties and nineties, Uh,

552
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,599
there would be a knock on a door and I

553
00:38:04,679 --> 00:38:08,639
should say, actually, this is more This was more prominent

554
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,440
in Britain than it was in America, although it did

555
00:38:12,519 --> 00:38:16,280
happen in America, but it was much more prominent in Britain.

556
00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:19,440
So there would be a knock on a door and

557
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:24,679
the parents would open and it was like the British

558
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:29,920
version of d cfis and they would say, you know,

559
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:37,199
we were called because there's been a complaint that something

560
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,800
is going on, you know, at home, and I don't

561
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,840
know what I'm allowed to say on this podcast, Can

562
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,119
I is there is this family friendly or.

563
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,119
Speaker 6: Kind of yeah? But I mean I don't go off

564
00:38:52,159 --> 00:38:55,920
the rails, you know, kind of you but yeah.

565
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 3: Okay, so that there was there was abuse. I wasn't

566
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,119
sure if I could say that more, but yeah, that

567
00:39:00,199 --> 00:39:02,599
there was there's abuse going on in the home and

568
00:39:02,679 --> 00:39:05,559
we need to inspect your child. And the parents, you know,

569
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,039
of course, would be you know, up in arms, like

570
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,719
what the heck is going on here? You know, and

571
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:14,159
they would they were like usually they were just like

572
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:20,360
flash identification and that was it. And because parents were

573
00:39:20,679 --> 00:39:24,320
so scared about what was taking place, more often than

574
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:29,159
not they would let these individuals come in. And the

575
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,159
reason why I say that I'm glad that you as

576
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,119
asked the question that you did, is because it's it

577
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,599
was about ninety five percent of the time the same

578
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:46,840
It was two men and one woman, so three DCFS agents.

579
00:39:47,559 --> 00:39:49,719
And keep in mind, I say DCFS because that's the

580
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,199
American version. I forgot what the British version was. But

581
00:39:53,639 --> 00:39:57,760
three of these agents come inside and they would inspect

582
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:03,079
the child and then and sometimes they would leave, and

583
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,800
what the parent would do right away is they would

584
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:10,039
call the police. In all these stories, actually I shouldn't

585
00:40:10,039 --> 00:40:15,719
say stories. These were actual reports. Also. If that didn't happen,

586
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,119
then the other thing that would happen was many times

587
00:40:20,199 --> 00:40:23,119
they would say we need we need to take your child,

588
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,480
and that's when the parents were like, Okay, I want

589
00:40:26,519 --> 00:40:29,599
to see your identification again and I need to call

590
00:40:29,679 --> 00:40:33,880
your agency before any of this happens. And every single

591
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,280
time when they were asked or demanded to see their

592
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,800
identification again, they would flee. They would just leave and

593
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,480
be like, okay, you know, we'll we'll contact you later on.

594
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:51,800
DCFS was always called afterwards, and the police was what

595
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:57,239
we're called as well, and DCFS would come back and say,

596
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,320
we don't have anybody work care by that name. That

597
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:08,039
was always the case. This was so prominent that, especially

598
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,159
in a couple of different districts, it was so prominent

599
00:41:12,519 --> 00:41:17,679
that the police did get involved and they created a

600
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,480
task force for this. I believe the task force was

601
00:41:21,519 --> 00:41:27,440
called something to the fact of Operation Child Welfare, Operation Childcare,

602
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:33,000
something to that defect. And not one single arrest was

603
00:41:33,039 --> 00:41:37,679
ever made. And we're talking about dozens and dozens and

604
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:44,639
dozens of reports throughout several districts and spilling into the

605
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:50,000
United States as well. And nobody was ever caught, and

606
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,360
the descriptions were very similar to the men in Black.

607
00:41:57,119 --> 00:42:00,920
Many of these parents would say that these individuals were

608
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,280
wearing wigs. Well, the men in Black have been described

609
00:42:05,559 --> 00:42:09,199
the same way. The parents would also say that the

610
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:16,880
individuals were wearing very heavy makeup. Also, the men in

611
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,440
black have been described as pale with you know, makeup

612
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:24,960
on them. So, you know, I think I think there's

613
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,719
a connection there. Now, the question is, what the heck

614
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,960
do these things want? You know, I mean, they seem

615
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:39,320
to be easily scared and they're disappearing. And oftentimes when

616
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:40,320
you're coming back.

617
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 6: When you talk about the phantom social worker people, do

618
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,559
they have the same kind of like speech problem or

619
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,119
you know, like the not kind of knowing what's going

620
00:42:52,159 --> 00:42:53,320
on like the men in black.

621
00:42:54,239 --> 00:43:01,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, they they seem very out of character. They're described

622
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:08,360
as being awkward, they're described as not professional, and it's

623
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,760
it's so similar to the men in black. Like I

624
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,599
you know, I know, I'm not the first researcher to

625
00:43:15,679 --> 00:43:19,159
make this connection, but at the same time, there's a

626
00:43:19,199 --> 00:43:21,800
lot of people that are not talking enough about this.

627
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 6: To me, it almost sounds like, I mean, you said

628
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,079
that was like the eighties and nineties that this was

629
00:43:28,119 --> 00:43:32,760
going on. Yep, it seems kind of late, but I mean,

630
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,480
you know, we still have it today. But this seems

631
00:43:34,559 --> 00:43:37,519
more like, you know, like human trafficking, kind of like

632
00:43:37,639 --> 00:43:39,960
they're going in inspecting it for like you know, the

633
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,039
slave trade or you know, the sex trade or something

634
00:43:43,159 --> 00:43:45,000
like that, that they're going to take these children away,

635
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,760
and if they don't meet standards of what they're looking

636
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,599
forward to sell or whatever, maybe they leave them there.

637
00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 3: There's a book called The Child Steelers and the name

638
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,000
of the authors case me. I have the book, the

639
00:43:59,119 --> 00:44:02,639
name of the authors shapes me. But that is his conclusion. Actually,

640
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:08,119
he does address the supernatural element to it, but he

641
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,760
doesn't believe it. He says that he thinks they are

642
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:19,599
real people and it's part of some human trafficking organization.

643
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:24,199
But he is also at a loss with it too,

644
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:31,280
because he says, man, if this is a child trafficking organization,

645
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,159
then not only is this a huge organization, not only

646
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:41,480
is it international, but it is the most clumsy human

647
00:44:41,519 --> 00:44:46,320
trafficking organization ever. And he goes into more detail about that.

648
00:44:46,639 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 6: But yeah, well, another side note, if you want to

649
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,760
take this down this road, again, when you're talking about

650
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,199
the connection between the Men in Black and the fairy lore,

651
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,119
a lot of fairies would kidnap children as well, And

652
00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:02,639
there's a lot of mythology behind that of these you know,

653
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:08,000
doppel gangers and uh change links and stuff like that.

654
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,519
They're stealing the children there, So I mean, I I

655
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:14,239
see where that could fall into this aspect in realm two.

656
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, definitely, I mean I mean, luckily the Men

657
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,199
in Black don't try to do that, but yeah, these

658
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:23,719
these groups do.

659
00:45:24,559 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 6: So yeah, has there was there any reports of them

660
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:30,920
actually getting a child?

661
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 3: No, No, there isn't. Actually now in the book that

662
00:45:36,079 --> 00:45:40,960
I mentioned, Uh, he does talk about actual kidnappings. But

663
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,599
see what that author does is he's combining like the

664
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:51,760
more esoteric encounters with these people versus you know, more

665
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,559
what I would say, a real world encounters where it's

666
00:45:55,599 --> 00:46:00,760
like actual child kidnappers and the descriptions the two in

667
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:06,400
the book are not the same. So but to your question, no,

668
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:11,719
these these more odd ones outter is not a word,

669
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,639
but these more uh strange, the stranger ones, Like, no,

670
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,639
there's no examples of kids actually being connapped.

671
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,079
Speaker 6: Interesting, was there a lot of like child disappearances or

672
00:46:25,119 --> 00:46:27,440
anything reported at that time, Like, did a spike in

673
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:29,239
missing people go up?

674
00:46:30,199 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 2: Not?

675
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,199
Speaker 3: Not, that's a good question, not not that I've come across, uh,

676
00:46:34,519 --> 00:46:37,039
nor nor others that that I've seen.

677
00:46:37,599 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 6: Now, I mean, like, wouldn't it be easier just to

678
00:46:40,079 --> 00:46:42,239
go to the playground and snatch a kid then go

679
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,000
into someone's house and and make some stuff up? Of course,

680
00:46:45,079 --> 00:46:47,519
I guess if if you go into someone's house and

681
00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:50,000
your child protective services or something and you say, hey,

682
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,760
I'm taking the child, there's less likelihood of them saying, hey,

683
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,039
my child's missing than oh crap, you know, the the

684
00:46:57,119 --> 00:46:59,920
government just took my kid. You know, you're not as

685
00:47:00,159 --> 00:47:02,000
prone to report it that way, I guess, you know,

686
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,199
whereas if someone just went missing, So yeah, for sure,

687
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,920
you know, as adds a little more credibility to their theft.

688
00:47:10,559 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and go go ahead.

689
00:47:15,559 --> 00:47:17,199
Speaker 6: Oh no, I was not kind of thing else.

690
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 3: You know, I would even connect this. Are you familiar

691
00:47:21,079 --> 00:47:27,039
with the case of Gary Sudbrink. Gary Sudbrink is is

692
00:47:27,079 --> 00:47:31,039
a really interesting case. He was an Air Force captain

693
00:47:31,159 --> 00:47:35,519
in nineteen ninety one and he was on leave, so

694
00:47:35,639 --> 00:47:39,280
he went decides to go visit his family in Texas,

695
00:47:40,199 --> 00:47:43,800
and he gets there and he gets actually, let me

696
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,239
back up, So he's on. He's in the airport and

697
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,159
a man approaches him and starts small talk with him

698
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,760
and says, and Gary right away was getting a weird

699
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,440
feeling about about this guy because he had a panic

700
00:47:58,519 --> 00:48:03,079
clipboard on him. And finally he asked Gary what's his name?

701
00:48:04,119 --> 00:48:05,800
And Gary just looked at him and it's like, I'm

702
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,360
not I'm not going to give you my name. And

703
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,039
the guy goes, oh, don't worry, You're not going to

704
00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:13,800
get in trouble, and Gary, having no idea what's going on,

705
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,639
Gary figured like, all right, I'm in the military, So

706
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,159
is this someone from the military keeping an eye on me?

707
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,719
But why why would that be? So he ignores the guy.

708
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,440
He goes on the plane. He sits down, and while

709
00:48:28,519 --> 00:48:32,440
he sat down, another man, a different man, sits next

710
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,280
to him and starts the same line of questioning of

711
00:48:37,159 --> 00:48:43,760
where's he going, his name, things like that. Gary doesn't

712
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,599
want to talk to him. So the stewardess eventually comes

713
00:48:46,639 --> 00:48:49,639
and says, not to Gary, but the stranger. She goes

714
00:48:49,679 --> 00:48:53,199
to the stranger, sir, you're in the wrong seat. So

715
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:58,519
the guy sits behind Gary and the students comes back

716
00:48:58,599 --> 00:49:02,079
and says, sir, you're in the wrong seat, and Gary

717
00:49:02,159 --> 00:49:05,079
said that he never saw the guy again after that. Well,

718
00:49:06,199 --> 00:49:10,079
he gets home, he surprises his family that he's home.

719
00:49:10,519 --> 00:49:15,079
He's going to visit them, and he makes a call

720
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,440
to one of his friends to let him know that

721
00:49:19,519 --> 00:49:26,360
he's in town and his friend says, his friend goes, hey, man,

722
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,639
you sound better than you did the last time we talked,

723
00:49:30,639 --> 00:49:34,199
and Gary didn't. He kind of like dismissed what he said.

724
00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:38,880
And the conversation, you know, continues and he's like, yeah,

725
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,599
you know, I just got in and then his friend's like, dude,

726
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:49,480
we already had this conversation. He goes, you arrived at

727
00:49:50,159 --> 00:49:53,039
such and such airport and Gary's like, no, no, no,

728
00:49:54,199 --> 00:49:57,679
I arrived at this airport, not the one he just mentioned.

729
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,519
And he's like, dude, we just on the phone yesterday

730
00:50:03,079 --> 00:50:05,760
and you told me that you were in town and

731
00:50:06,519 --> 00:50:10,960
your voice was weird and you sounded sick. And Gary

732
00:50:11,159 --> 00:50:14,679
was like, dude, I just got into town today. Like

733
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,280
I don't know what the heck you're talking about. So

734
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:23,079
Gary's like, Okay, something weird is going on. While he's

735
00:50:23,159 --> 00:50:26,639
on the phone with his friend, another call is coming

736
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:31,400
in and this is nineteen ninety one, so you could

737
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,800
how do you say you were able to record conversations

738
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,880
through your answering machine at that time. So Gary puts

739
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,480
on the recording of his answer machine and picks up

740
00:50:43,559 --> 00:50:50,119
the other call, and it is a robotic voice. You

741
00:50:50,199 --> 00:50:53,400
could actually find this on YouTube. Just type in Gary

742
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:58,840
Suidbrink and Gary recorded all four phone calls, and each

743
00:50:59,039 --> 00:51:03,480
time a robotic voice asking him when he's going to

744
00:51:03,519 --> 00:51:09,920
come back. And the voice makes other strange comments such as,

745
00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:15,280
there is double of you, you are being impersonated by

746
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:20,519
the other voice, keep your eyes on Orion, things like that,

747
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:25,880
very cryptic things, and one hundred percent it is a robotic,

748
00:51:26,679 --> 00:51:30,960
monotone voice, and it's as if it's reading from a script.

749
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:36,320
It wasn't answering any of Gary's questions. I think that

750
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:44,840
is an example of possibly one of the men in Black. Yeah.

751
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,719
Gary didn't talk about his experience for a long time.

752
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,760
He happened to go into a UFO conference in the

753
00:51:55,039 --> 00:51:59,119
early two thousands, and while there he strikes up a

754
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:04,320
conversation with UFO researcher I forget her name, but she

755
00:52:04,599 --> 00:52:08,519
was just awe struck about his experience, and she goes,

756
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,119
who else have you talked about this with and he goes,

757
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,559
no one, You're you're the first one, just me and

758
00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:17,519
my family. And then she's like, do you happen, by

759
00:52:17,559 --> 00:52:20,599
any chance to have the recordings still? And he goes, yeah,

760
00:52:20,639 --> 00:52:24,000
I've always kept them. So she got ahold of them,

761
00:52:24,599 --> 00:52:28,760
and with his permission, she uploaded them online. You could

762
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:29,519
listen to them now.

763
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 6: It's just there's so many more questions than answers to

764
00:52:36,079 --> 00:52:36,599
that story.

765
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 3: Oh yes there is. Gary doesn't really do podcasts. He's

766
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:48,079
done one podcast, and I mean he has other experiences,

767
00:52:48,159 --> 00:52:50,159
but I mean it could go on and on. But

768
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,519
it's other types of weird phenomena like that. For example,

769
00:52:55,599 --> 00:52:59,679
he was with his girlfriend at one point, this was

770
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:04,239
many years ago, and they hear a helicopter very loudly outside,

771
00:53:04,679 --> 00:53:08,840
and he looks outside and him and his girlfriend see

772
00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:15,159
a black helicopter descend into the backyard and then rise

773
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:20,920
up and take off. However, while he was looking at

774
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:25,199
this helicopter, he sees his neighbor on the other side,

775
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:30,440
and his neighbor was not reacting to the helicopter, but

776
00:53:30,519 --> 00:53:32,440
yet him and his girlfriend did see it. So he's

777
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,119
not going crazy, you know.

778
00:53:36,679 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 6: So, ah, wow, there's there's there's a lot there. I

779
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,360
don't I don't even know what to make about.

780
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,800
Speaker 3: I think that's the point of Barnaby. You know.

781
00:53:50,039 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 6: Earlier I earlier, I read.

782
00:53:53,679 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 3: That that quotes where it's the phenomenon are not extra

783
00:54:00,039 --> 00:54:04,039
rust they are ultraterrestrial. That was said by John Keel.

784
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:10,320
It's the idea that these things they're not fully human,

785
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:16,280
but they're mimicking humans. Their agenda is not something that

786
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:21,679
we would understand. They exist on a different plane of existence,

787
00:54:22,119 --> 00:54:26,159
you know. They are the embodiment of puzzles.

788
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:27,639
Speaker 4: You know.

789
00:54:28,039 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 3: I don't think we're meant to understand what they are.

790
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 6: Has there been any instances of radioactivity or anything reported

791
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,519
with them, like after an encounter with them. Has any

792
00:54:40,559 --> 00:54:44,239
of the people gotten sick from like a radiation burns

793
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:44,920
or anything.

794
00:54:45,039 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 3: Well, radiation burns, No, I'm not that I'm aware of.

795
00:54:47,519 --> 00:54:54,199
But they have gotten physically sick. People have became nauseous,

796
00:54:55,559 --> 00:55:00,639
they became ill, bedridden afterwards. So it's like the example

797
00:55:00,679 --> 00:55:04,440
I gave you in the beginning about mythology. Sometimes you

798
00:55:04,599 --> 00:55:08,039
encounter some of these mythological beings and you get physically

799
00:55:08,159 --> 00:55:12,400
sick or even worse you pass away. Hmm.

800
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:21,760
Speaker 6: Interesting. Yeah, I mean there's there's obviously so much more

801
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,239
to this phenomenon, and we could we could talk for

802
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,840
hours about it, but I think this is probably a

803
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,199
good place to round things up here at the end

804
00:55:29,199 --> 00:55:29,599
of the hour.

805
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 4: Here.

806
00:55:30,039 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 3: But with the phantom clown phenomena, I've heard you know

807
00:55:41,039 --> 00:55:45,559
that I had a sighting of a clown, right, No, yeah,

808
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:46,199
I was.

809
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,159
Speaker 6: I don't talk about it much because it was really creepy,

810
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,559
but I was out in the woods doing a bigfoot

811
00:55:52,599 --> 00:55:55,960
investigation and I was walked. I came out of the

812
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,920
woods onto a two track road and I turned, and

813
00:55:59,039 --> 00:56:01,840
you know that I used to in a haunted house attraction. Yeah,

814
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:05,159
so I'm familiar with all kinds of weird props and

815
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:10,639
animatronics and you know, haunted house stuff. And I turned

816
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,760
and out of the side of my view, like right here,

817
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,280
maybe like two feet in front of me, to my right,

818
00:56:18,039 --> 00:56:22,480
there was a clown standing dead pan. Uh kind of

819
00:56:22,519 --> 00:56:27,199
looked like doofin Schmertz from Phineas and Ferb with the

820
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:31,360
long nose, had a big roughed collar, black and white

821
00:56:31,519 --> 00:56:38,400
checked and uh, the like a jesterre hat sure, and

822
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,760
I saw it, and it to me, it just triggered

823
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,119
this whole like, oh, I'm in a haunted house. Like

824
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,519
it's it's no big deal. Yeah, it didn't phaze me

825
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,119
until I realized that I'm standing out in the woods

826
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,559
and this thing shouldn't be there, and it kicked in

827
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:57,280
like oh my gosh, you know, and it was gone.

828
00:56:57,599 --> 00:56:59,800
It didn't move, didn't do nothing, didn't even look at me,

829
00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:06,599
looked like across the path. So all right, I got that. Yeah, yeah,

830
00:57:06,679 --> 00:57:09,159
what what is your phantom clown phenomenon?

831
00:57:09,199 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 3: Because now yeah, and then I gotta go son barnaby.

832
00:57:11,559 --> 00:57:17,480
But the phantom clown phenomena took place in the again

833
00:57:17,559 --> 00:57:20,280
in the in the eighties, uh, predominantly in the eighties,

834
00:57:20,679 --> 00:57:23,920
but going into the nineties where now this started in

835
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:29,000
the East Coast of the US where many individuals hold

836
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:34,719
on kids school school children were saying that a clown

837
00:57:35,599 --> 00:57:40,039
was harassing them after school and even luring them into

838
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,519
into a van. Now you may say, well, what does

839
00:57:43,559 --> 00:57:46,559
this still hang on? What time the eighties?

840
00:57:47,599 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 6: So right about the time that it came out.

841
00:57:51,039 --> 00:57:54,719
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's interesting. It would have came out after.

842
00:57:54,599 --> 00:57:58,719
Speaker 6: This maybe based on that. Then Okay, carry on.

843
00:57:59,559 --> 00:58:04,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's very good bying to be your researcher.

844
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:08,079
I did look it up and I have it in

845
00:58:08,159 --> 00:58:25,000
my notes. Let me so. Yeah, that movie came out

846
00:58:25,039 --> 00:58:30,320
in nineteen I'm sorry, that book by Stephen King came

847
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:34,760
out in nineteen eighty six, and this took place. I

848
00:58:35,079 --> 00:58:38,199
want to say it was nineteen eighty four. I'm not mistaken,

849
00:58:38,719 --> 00:58:45,840
but it was for sure before the book. It's so Yeah,

850
00:58:47,719 --> 00:58:50,480
they were saying that these school kids were saying that

851
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,000
a clown was luring them into the van or harassing

852
00:58:54,079 --> 00:58:58,079
them after school, following them. Now you may say, well,

853
00:58:58,159 --> 00:59:02,519
like maybe that's like some psychopaths open or some predator. However,

854
00:59:02,639 --> 00:59:07,280
this was happening down the East Coast and several school

855
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:13,000
districts were involved. So many kids complained about it that

856
00:59:14,159 --> 00:59:20,440
schools got involved in several school districts, so that a

857
00:59:20,599 --> 00:59:25,599
memo to parents saying, what's taking place, Maybe it's a

858
00:59:25,599 --> 00:59:28,800
good idea to pick up your child. Keep in mind,

859
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:34,360
the newspapers are reported on this as well. Police became involved,

860
00:59:35,199 --> 00:59:40,800
not one single arrest was ever made. Later on that year,

861
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:51,960
you go into these sightings start happening in the midwest, Kansas, Kentucky, Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana,

862
00:59:52,960 --> 01:00:00,159
throughout the Midwest, school children I see clowns, oftentimes in

863
01:00:00,239 --> 01:00:04,199
a blue van and trying to lure them inside, but

864
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:09,519
not one single arrest was ever made. I think the

865
01:00:09,639 --> 01:00:14,559
phenomenon is it is connected, you know. And you could

866
01:00:14,599 --> 01:00:17,559
say something like like, well, this is the eighties and nineties.

867
01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:21,960
There's urban legends were rife in the US at this time.

868
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:27,440
Sure that that is true, but I mean you had

869
01:00:27,519 --> 01:00:31,199
too many There's far too many kids that are saying

870
01:00:32,079 --> 01:00:33,760
that something is taking place here.

871
01:00:34,639 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 6: You know, there was John Gacy, right, John Gacy, Yeah, Yeah,

872
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,360
John Wayne Gacy, Yeah, was the clown that went around

873
01:00:42,639 --> 01:00:44,440
kidnapping people and stuff.

874
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 4: Right.

875
01:00:45,159 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 3: But again that was also you know, the so when

876
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,360
he got caught, I believe, oh gosh, that was late eighties.

877
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,159
But you know, John Wayne Gacy, he's in uh he

878
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,039
was in Chicago, right, I mean he was in along

879
01:00:57,119 --> 01:01:00,280
the East coast. And keep in mind, a lot of

880
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:05,679
the a lot of the sightings of these phantom clowns

881
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:12,679
even made its way to South America. So I think

882
01:01:12,719 --> 01:01:18,920
the phenomena minute black phantom social workers, phantom clowns, it's

883
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:22,800
part of this what John Keel calls this ultra terrestrial theory.

884
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:30,840
They they are existing between spaces, you know, between this

885
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,679
world and the next. What their agenda is, you know,

886
01:01:35,039 --> 01:01:36,599
it's anyone's guess.

887
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,039
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, there's there's so much stuff out there.

888
01:01:42,159 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 4: You know.

889
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 6: Just a few years ago, I want to say, twenty

890
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,960
twelve or twenty thirteen, we had a whole bunch of

891
01:01:48,159 --> 01:01:52,960
clown sightings in Wisconsin here just standing out under street lights,

892
01:01:53,039 --> 01:01:55,599
and it was a big, big thing in the news

893
01:01:55,679 --> 01:01:56,039
and TV.

894
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 3: I do remember that, and escalated in twenty sixteen. But honestly,

895
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,280
the phenomena that that thing is is not as the

896
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:06,519
same as what was going on in the eighties and

897
01:02:06,599 --> 01:02:10,159
the like. These were actual what you're talking about in

898
01:02:10,719 --> 01:02:13,320
the mid two thousands or twenty tens, I should say,

899
01:02:14,159 --> 01:02:18,239
was those were real people? You know, those were I mean,

900
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,960
we haven't recorded well, yeah, but.

901
01:02:23,039 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 6: I don't know.

902
01:02:24,719 --> 01:02:25,719
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, I.

903
01:02:25,719 --> 01:02:28,559
Speaker 6: Don't know either, So yeah, I mean it was it

904
01:02:28,639 --> 01:02:30,000
was so bad in the news that you know, like

905
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:32,199
I said, I was running a haunted house and we

906
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:34,840
didn't do any clown theme that year because we didn't

907
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:38,159
want our actors getting arrested when they went, oh, make

908
01:02:38,239 --> 01:02:41,320
up on stuff. Wow, it was that intense that you

909
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:42,960
know there were any slightings and stuff.

910
01:02:43,039 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 3: So that's awesome.

911
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 6: All right, Jack, you gotta get going. Thank you so

912
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,599
much for coming on. Tell everybody you got your convention

913
01:02:51,719 --> 01:02:53,880
coming up. Run down some details on that again real quick.

914
01:02:54,719 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 3: So it'll be it's the Paranormal Chicago Convention and that'll

915
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:03,119
be Saturday, June thirteenth from twelve pm, so noon till

916
01:03:03,199 --> 01:03:06,480
seven pm, and it's just a one dow entrance and

917
01:03:06,559 --> 01:03:07,519
we're gonna have a great time.

918
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:12,559
Speaker 6: Awesome. You also are the founder of the Paranormal Chicago

919
01:03:12,679 --> 01:03:15,079
group on Facebook. The link is in the show notes

920
01:03:15,159 --> 01:03:17,079
for that. Anybody wants to come check out all things

921
01:03:17,159 --> 01:03:20,559
paranormal in Chicago, everything from the convention to other events

922
01:03:20,599 --> 01:03:22,599
and ghost tours and stuff going on in the area.

923
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,679
And you are the host of Channeling Chavez. Tell everyone

924
01:03:25,719 --> 01:03:26,400
where they can find that.

925
01:03:27,159 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, Channeling Javis is my podcast and we just have

926
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:35,039
it on YouTube right now. So yeah, it's been it's

927
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:39,039
we've been going on for a year and still going strong.

928
01:03:39,159 --> 01:03:40,840
We don't have a lot of views, but we are

929
01:03:41,199 --> 01:03:42,039
having fun doing it.

930
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 6: Very cool. The link for your YouTube channel as well

931
01:03:46,079 --> 01:03:48,199
is in the show notes for anybody interested. So there

932
01:03:48,239 --> 01:03:52,599
you go, as well as the convention. So thanks Barnaby

933
01:03:53,239 --> 01:03:55,360
absolutely man, thank you. I look forward to seeing you

934
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,199
for a couple of great events this year in Delevan

935
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,679
as well as Chicago. Until next time, guys, Thanks Jack,

936
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:06,880
We'll see Larre all right, guys, that is our show.

937
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,440
Thank you all for tuning in this week. Remember to

938
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:13,760
go check out the Contact Modalities Expo in Delavan, Wisconsin.

939
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,679
Jack will be at that event May first through the

940
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:20,280
third in Delavan, Wisconsin, and then his own event, the

941
01:04:20,679 --> 01:04:26,440
Paranormal Chicago Convention again Saturday, June thirteenth. One dollar admission,

942
01:04:26,639 --> 01:04:29,400
free parking. You can't beat that in Chicago. A lot

943
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,239
of great vendors and it's a really good time. So

944
01:04:32,679 --> 01:04:34,679
if you guys want, head on over to check that out.

945
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:37,119
Of the links for all that as well as Jack's

946
01:04:37,159 --> 01:04:40,039
podcast are in the show notes. So until next time, guys.

947
01:04:40,119 --> 01:04:43,639
Remember we're all part of the paranormal spectrum. Take care,

948
01:04:44,079 --> 01:04:46,079
be well and I'll see you on the edge.

949
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:50,559
Speaker 4: You seem to know, so.

950
01:04:52,159 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 6: Let's call it King. Tell me please.

951
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 1: That thing trees from Bringes sitting in.

952
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 4: Their room and I can feed it. Kaine I'm bringing

953
01:05:11,239 --> 01:05:18,000
under rich come ad Ricaine. It's canon dilland Ham aard Ricaine,

954
01:05:18,159 --> 01:05:32,840
only some tobo baggage. Tame A heard Kaine. I'm trying, yah,