WEBVTT 1 00:00:10.359 --> 00:00:13.240 Welcome to this bonus episode of the Film You Mentories podcast. 2 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:16.160 I'm Jamie Benning, your host and the creator of this show. 3 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:19.839 This time, I'm joined once again by author and filmmaker 4 00:00:19.879 --> 00:00:23.359 John Walsh, whose latest book, The Art and Making of 5 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:27.480 Gladiator two, takes us inside Ridley Scott's long awaited sequel. 6 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:29.879 So John and I talk about how the book came together, 7 00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:32.960 what it was like working so closely with Paramount and 8 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:36.679 Scott Free, and how he balanced the art, photography and 9 00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:39.880 behind the scenes stories from such a massive production. So 10 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:43.560 here's my conversation with John Walsh about his Gladiator two book, 11 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:45.320 and I'll be back at the end for a tiny 12 00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:47.799 bit of jabbering on John. It's great to have you 13 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:51.799 back on the podcast. I mean, this collection of books 14 00:00:51.799 --> 00:00:54.479 of yours is growing bigger and bigger year on year, 15 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:56.640 month on month, it seems. I mean, I think we 16 00:00:56.759 --> 00:01:00.280 first spoke about Escape from New York, and then hone 17 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:05.040 and maybe now you've made this book about Gladiator too, 18 00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:09.319 the Art and the Making of Gladiator two. Have you 19 00:01:09.359 --> 00:01:11.560 now got to a point where studios are approaching you 20 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:14.239 or did you approach them? How did this book come about? 21 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:16.439 No, you guess that right, Hi, Jamie. Great to be 22 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:19.439 back on. Thank you. They approached me so they said, 23 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:21.599 we want someone to do this book. We think you're 24 00:01:21.640 --> 00:01:24.599 the guy. And I was like, really, who's recommended me. 25 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:28.319 It's a new publisher, Abrams, and I'd been recommended for it, 26 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:31.719 partially by my previous commissioned editor at Tyson Simon Ward, 27 00:01:31.719 --> 00:01:35.719 who's now Ian Fleming Publications, and so he kind of 28 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:38.120 spoke up for me. And it was a departure for 29 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:41.200 me because of course it's a book about a new film, 30 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:44.079 a film that hadn't been released, that wasn't finished when 31 00:01:44.079 --> 00:01:46.719 I started writing it, And of course all of the 32 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:50.359 people are alive, and there is thousands of images. All 33 00:01:50.359 --> 00:01:52.400 the things I complain about before, Oh they're all dead 34 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:55.359 and there's no decent photos. Now is the opposite. There 35 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:57.840 was more people than I could interview in the time 36 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:01.560 I had, and thousands and thousands I think it was 37 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:06.400 like thirty thousand images that I was preview to some of. 38 00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:09.520 But of course it's all a very lockdown process because 39 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:13.360 I'm an external person, and although I signed an MDA 40 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:16.960 for the script and images and so on, stuff had 41 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:19.120 to be shared on a need to know basis, So 42 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:22.680 it was very much how you'd imagine I five might 43 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:25.759 operate with a newbie in the office. But it was 44 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:26.919 great fun, very exciting. 45 00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:29.800 Yeah, because, as you said, the books you've previously done 46 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:32.919 are all about films where you know, we've had decades 47 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:36.000 potentially to think about them, and you know people have 48 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:38.199 passed away and you've been lucky enough to get some 49 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:41.199 of those people before they passed away. But this is 50 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:43.800 a different tone entirely. How did you sort of approach 51 00:02:43.879 --> 00:02:46.120 that tone? Because you're doing a couple of jobs here. 52 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:48.080 You're not only trying to tell the story this making 53 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:50.039 of but you're also trying to kind of publicize the 54 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:51.719 film in some way as well. You have to sort 55 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:53.680 of Did you find yourself having to fit in with 56 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:56.360 a with a tone and a style that was sent 57 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:57.240 to you by the studio? 58 00:02:57.479 --> 00:02:59.680 No, not really. I think they'd looked at my previous 59 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:03.400 book and thought can you do something like that? And 60 00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:06.680 with previous films, if you take The wicker Man as 61 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:09.439 a good example, there were lots of unanswered questions over 62 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:13.439 fifty years that were conflicting about was it really cuts 63 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:16.479 by Michael Deey and Barry Spiking's a British line or 64 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:20.560 did Christopher Ee gets it wrongly got it wrong? You know, 65 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:22.240 we were able to put to bed some of the myths. 66 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:24.199 There are no myths around this film because it hadn't 67 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:27.400 opened and it was a switch and studio. So Paramount 68 00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:32.000 Pictures have gladiated too, and Universal Pictures, who were entirely 69 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:35.199 separate company, had the first film, Gladiator, back in two thousands. 70 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:38.560 I think one of the first things I did was 71 00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:41.120 to start to take a look at something they never 72 00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:43.879 asked me to look at, but was a chapter called 73 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:46.280 The Road to Rome, where I kind of walked through 74 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:48.960 all of the other scenarios the film could have been. 75 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:53.439 And there are some right interesting variations on sort of 76 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:56.680 time travel, on having Russell Crowe return as a ghost 77 00:03:56.800 --> 00:03:59.400 walking through different time periods, so all of that was 78 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:01.479 kind of covered but had to be verified and with 79 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:05.639 the folks there at a Paramount, and of course Ridley 80 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:08.159 Scott is a producer on this picture, so he wasn't 81 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:11.240 a gun for hire, so everything had to be go 82 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:15.919 through Abrams and Paramounts and to Sir Ridley Scott's production 83 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:18.279 company Scott Free and sort of back again. And there 84 00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:21.279 are different producers and different writers involved, so I think 85 00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:23.639 it was very important to get the architecture of the 86 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:27.439 history correct because it was going into a book, and 87 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:30.439 I think there was a lot of scrutiny about that, 88 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:33.959 and particularly because it's the official book of the film, 89 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:36.759 so once it's in, it becomes law, as it were. 90 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:40.399 So that was something that they didn't ask for. And 91 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:43.240 I try to bring that to all these books, something extra, 92 00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:46.519 something that perhaps will surprise people when they look through it. 93 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:48.680 But of course for me, it was new. It was 94 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:51.160 a new area because it's although it's my eighth book, 95 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:55.279 it was very new. People were around, they kind of 96 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:58.240 could speak to me. I was given lots of interviews 97 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:00.360 that were done on set. I had to track people 98 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:03.000 down myself who they hadn't interviewed, and then I was 99 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:05.600 able to enhance what they gave me with new questions. 100 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:07.600 But as you'll find with something like this, there are 101 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:11.759 areas that you can't really ask about. So if you 102 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:15.839 imagine your perfect dinner party with maybe Stanley Kubrick at 103 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:17.800 one end of the table, Alfred Hitchcock and so on, 104 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:21.040 and Charlie Chaplin, the questions you ask these these wonderful people, 105 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:23.120 you're not really in that position with all of these 106 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.160 folks to ask them about other films and other projects. 107 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:28.560 It's although it didn't stop me because I am rather 108 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:30.600 cheeky like that. And in the case of Sir Ridley 109 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:33.279 Scott's my next book, which is now nearly finished, he 110 00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:36.000 had a kind of a there was some connecting DNA 111 00:05:36.439 --> 00:05:38.800 as it were, so I couldn't let the opportunity go 112 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:42.839 without confirming a story regarding that no very different from me. 113 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:45.319 And I must say, Jamie, since we last spoke, you've 114 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:48.439 you've done your Return of the Jedi arnofficial timeline as well, 115 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:50.439 so you're in the book club, you're in the authors Club. 116 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:53.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got it out there. It's still 117 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:56.160 selling a few copies every month, which is which is great. 118 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:57.800 You know, a couple of years on, I think now 119 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:02.480 nearly but yeah, no, I I'm always amazed when I 120 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:04.680 see that you've got another book coming out. You seem 121 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:07.240 to be able to do these at such a pace. 122 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:09.879 But given the scale of this production and being brought 123 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:12.560 on kind of early, what were the first steps you 124 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.319 took in kind of shaping the book. Because you've got 125 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:17.839 to think logistically, you've got to think editorially, you've got 126 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:20.360 to think in terms of design, Where did you begin? 127 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:24.160 Well, I kind of thought about, why has it taken 128 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:27.639 twenty five years? Is there a story there? Yes, when 129 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.839 they did start shooting, they stopped because of the various 130 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:33.680 Hollywood strikes that there had been. How did that affect things? 131 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:34.720 Can I talk about that? 132 00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:34.959 You know? 133 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:38.240 The financial impact of that. I'm always a kind of 134 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:40.839 a stats person, you know, how much does something cost, 135 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:42.839 how much did something make? So I was able to 136 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:45.920 have access to that information as well, So rather than 137 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:50.040 it just being people talking in an what's called an 138 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:53.439 ePK on electronic press kit and for people listening who 139 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:55.439 don't know what that is, and I know you know, Jamie, 140 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:57.759 it's where interviews are done on set where everyone says 141 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:00.879 had a great time and had distributed amongst daytime television 142 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:03.800 where they can cut them up into their various programs, 143 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:05.879 have interviews with the grace and the good, but very 144 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:08.240 much saying a similar sort of thing. I was quite 145 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:10.759 keen myself that the book was more than that, and 146 00:07:10.839 --> 00:07:13.680 I certainly think it is. And I know Abrams wanted 147 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:15.639 to do something that was quite sort of landmark and 148 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:18.519 special as well, and that certainly came through in the design. 149 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:21.839 It's massive it's a weapon. I've got this thing behind 150 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:24.959 me on an easel, but I've got a massive fat 151 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:28.000 head and it's even bigger than that, and it's like wow, 152 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:31.839 and it's really it's thicker than an Argos catalog from 153 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:34.680 the eighties, and that's pretty good measure. So there was 154 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:38.199 a lot of investments in terms of the book and 155 00:07:38.199 --> 00:07:40.000 in terms of the production of the book. So I 156 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:43.879 think for me, they wanted something which was deliverable, and 157 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:46.120 with previous books, I've always made sure I'd delivered on 158 00:07:46.199 --> 00:07:48.800 time and on budget. We've never missed either of those 159 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:51.360 two things. And this had to hit beats, you know, 160 00:07:51.399 --> 00:07:53.439 the film was coming out. We wanted to be in 161 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:56.680 a position where we could talk about everything in the 162 00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:59.680 book because other recent making of books, I think on 163 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:03.160 one of the Star Wars films didn't reveal that was it, 164 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:06.279 Palpa time was back on the third Star Wars movie, 165 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:11.279 the JJ Brams one, what was that the Rise of 166 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:13.800 Skywalker the third one. Yeah, So I think in some 167 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:15.879 of the making of books there they didn't mention the 168 00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:18.560 Emperor was back. And we kind of thought, well, we 169 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:20.920 want to make sure we can mention everything please, and 170 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:24.560 so we did. But it was interesting. I wasn't sort 171 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:26.439 of sent the script in the traditional way or the 172 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:28.639 photos in the traditional way. I had to watch them 173 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:32.080 on a on a secure server and read things over 174 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:35.039 and over. So I wanted pull quotes from the actors again, 175 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:39.080 something I suggested. I had to read the script many 176 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:42.240 many times over. But the script itself was on the 177 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:44.840 time limits, so I had to get the reading of 178 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:47.639 it done. I think by the was it first of 179 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:49.799 June last year, So I had to make sure I 180 00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:54.039 memorize and copy it out what I needed. So it 181 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:57.000 was a very different way of working. And of course, 182 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:01.320 like all these projects, people have a point of view, 183 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:04.720 so the truth is kind of subjective to some extent. 184 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:07.720 I mean, facts never are, but people's experiences. I had 185 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:09.320 a great time and someone else was I had a 186 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:12.799 terrible time, and they're on the They're on the same boat, 187 00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:16.960 So how do you differentiate those stories? But of course, 188 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:20.240 I suppose the biggest change for me was it's a major, 189 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:23.919 major studio picture, possibly the biggest film of last year. 190 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:27.639 So if there were controversies, how do you get into them? 191 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:30.720 How do you document them? Are you burning your own 192 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:34.639 bridge by doing that? So it's it's it's kind of 193 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:39.440 it was. It was a tricky balancing act. And of 194 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:42.600 course the book would go back to Abrams, who I 195 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:45.519 was very pleased enjoyed what they read, then back to Paramount, 196 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:48.519 back to sir really Scott's people, and so it would 197 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:50.919 come back with, you know, with notes as you'd expect, 198 00:09:51.399 --> 00:09:54.559 but all of them were terribly constructive and everyone liked 199 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:57.559 what was happening, and it all moved at quite a pace. 200 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.799 And I was enormously flattered to be asked because they 201 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:04.720 could have asked anyone and they chose me, which was, 202 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:06.399 you know, rather special. I was very pleased. 203 00:10:06.919 --> 00:10:08.440 Yeah, I was pleased to see your name on it, 204 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:10.679 because you kindly sent me a copy of the book 205 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:12.480 and I thought I didn't order this and opened it 206 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:14.639 up and I was like, oh, it's John brilliant, amazing. 207 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:17.320 I mean, that's yeah, it is a big leap for you, 208 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:19.679 and one one that you've worked hard to read, and 209 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:21.840 I'm glad you have. You know, but in a book 210 00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:24.440 like this, you know you want to, as you say, 211 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:26.320 you want to document what went on at the time 212 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:28.720 in the making of this movie whilst it's being made. 213 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:32.080 So how do you go about kind of making sure 214 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:35.559 that it isn't just a surface level art book with 215 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:37.840 just pictures in it that you've got, you know, the 216 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.600 stories and the descriptions of what went on to back 217 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:44.519 up that kind of process and intention for the movie. 218 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.759 Well, you've got the if you like, the witness statements, 219 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:50.759 so the people who were present in what they saw, 220 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:53.879 which was what you can imagine. But then you have 221 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:59.480 the background stories. So Denzel Washington, for example, the director 222 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:02.960 he's most worked with in his career is Tony Scott, 223 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:06.639 Sir Ridley Scott's brother. He's worked on him. I think 224 00:11:06.679 --> 00:11:09.399 it was on thirteen or fourteen films, it says in 225 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:11.679 the book. And so there's a whole section on Tony 226 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:15.480 Scott and the films and the relationship between Tony and Ridley. 227 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:19.639 And of course Tony made his directorial debut with The Hunger, 228 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:23.360 which is a marvelous vampire film if people haven't seen that, 229 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:27.759 it's Catherine Denerve and David Bowie as well, and it's 230 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:31.720 really a wonderful film. Considers the sort of an art 231 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:34.360 house film at the time, it's i think been reassessed 232 00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:36.799 in recent years. He went straight from that to do 233 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:39.480 films like Top Gun and Beverly Hill's Cop two and 234 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:42.159 so on, and had and Days of Thunder, and he 235 00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:47.000 had a marvelous, marvelous career and teamed with Denzel Washington. 236 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:49.480 Of course, Ridley teamed with him on other films as well, 237 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:53.720 like American Gangster, and so getting some of the background 238 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:56.879 there and the sort of connective DNA between Tony and 239 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:00.720 Ridley and Tony Ridley and Denzel is kind of fascinating. 240 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:04.000 So I did that in all the departments. When you're 241 00:12:04.039 --> 00:12:06.399 speaking to the production designer, when I was speaking to 242 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:11.879 the art directors, the directors of photography, they all had 243 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:16.919 history with with Ridley, and the visual effects as well, 244 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:18.759 you know, with a whole section in the book separating 245 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:21.600 visual from special effects. I'm a bit of a geek 246 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:24.960 when it comes to all that stuff. While we're awsk 247 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:28.159 you down industrial licen magic asking him about that. But 248 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:30.720 always the shadow of the other film, you know, always 249 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:34.240 the shadow of Gladiator, And so often my questions would 250 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:37.519 refer back to, well, did you try and do that. 251 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:39.360 I've heard you try to do that on the first film. 252 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:41.600 Why not? What happened? Why have we got it now 253 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.360 in this film? So there were quite a few technical 254 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.279 aspects of Gladiator two that were achieved this time around 255 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:51.559 that couldn't be achieved originally. And that sort of thing 256 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:53.480 fascinates me. You know what could have been and what 257 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:55.720 should have been. And there is already now talk of 258 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:59.440 a Gladiator three, and as a there's a concept in 259 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:02.080 mind for and I'm more than happy to go out 260 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:05.080 to Morocco. I'll wear a massive hat, I'll have a 261 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:07.639 tin foil umbrella and fac to fifty so I'm already 262 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:09.639 prepping my emergency bag. 263 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:11.720 I think what you always managed to do in your 264 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:14.759 books is you know, you have that technical description, you 265 00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:17.480 know within certain departments, within certain interviews that you've you know, 266 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:20.519 people that you've spoken to, but they're always very accessible 267 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:23.440 your books. Did you find with this, given that you 268 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:26.399 had such a plethora of information kind of thrown at you, 269 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:28.480 with all these images and all these interviews, that that 270 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:31.240 balance was difficult to find? Or is that something that 271 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:32.440 comes easy to you now? 272 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:35.200 I kind of knew going in it was going to 273 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:37.799 be a different sort of creature, and that it was 274 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:39.879 going to be so fresh in people's minds that people 275 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:42.759 would for base them have very similar points of view. 276 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:44.879 So I try to sort of pick and choose which 277 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:47.960 ones I put in the final book, because you don't 278 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:50.960 want everyone saying the same thing, all the witnesses saying 279 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:54.360 giving the same testimony, So trying to find a voice 280 00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:58.240 for each aspect in each department was crucial. A lot 281 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:01.440 of times that crossed over the way in which Arthur Max, 282 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:05.840 the production designer, would create his sets. Knowing how John 283 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.720 matheson paints with golden lights meant that there was lots 284 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:11.960 of crossover there. So I was kind of interested in 285 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:14.840 those areas where departments crossed over. I haven't been able 286 00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:18.120 to do that before and other books because there's been 287 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:20.240 no one really around to ask, you know, I couldn't 288 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:23.480 ask people on The wicker Man or The Third Man 289 00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:27.519 or Conan about camera loading and about who did you 290 00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:31.879 know were responsibilities shared in departments when people were sick 291 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:35.120 and you know what happened on emergency days. So there 292 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:38.240 was the advantage of that. Luckily, with the fosos, the 293 00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:41.679 thousands and thousands of photos, Abrams and their team got 294 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:44.159 on board. The design team there kind of looked at 295 00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:47.679 things much more closely. But what not to include is 296 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:51.200 so so difficult. How many pages of the book I 297 00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:53.279 have to have a cheeky look. I can't remember. It's 298 00:14:53.399 --> 00:15:00.480 it's my longest book so far. It's two forty pages, 299 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:03.080 which were a big hardback kind of coffee table book. 300 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:05.879 Is it's quite out there. But even then we could 301 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:08.279 have done twice the size of a book. And there 302 00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:11.360 are aspects of the film that I didn't have access 303 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:12.919 to at the time because the book had to go 304 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:17.000 to print. So the kind of animated title sequence, all 305 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:21.200 the poster variants, stuff with the music, the deleted scenes, 306 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:24.080 what could have been a gladiator too that wasn't, who 307 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:26.639 was nearly cast and who wasn't. We could do a 308 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:29.759 special edition book. So I've said to Abrams, if they 309 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:33.279 want to go back again and revise in updates and 310 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:36.200 charge people rather chiefly for the book again with a 311 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:39.320 little sash on the side saying new material added, then 312 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:41.600 there are areas we could add to I mean that 313 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:44.279 goes through all the books, I think, but I think 314 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:46.960 here it was crucial to recognize what I did before, 315 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:50.120 but take advantage of the fact that people are here 316 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:52.720 now and we can ask them the details. I mean, 317 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:54.360 I'd really like to ask people what they had for 318 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:56.919 breakfast and what they had in the case rom There 319 00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:58.559 wasn't enough space in the book for all of that. 320 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:00.840 But when you can ask that, why wouldn't you? 321 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:04.720 Yeah? Absolutely, And you know in this day and age 322 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:07.919 where we've got you know, videos online almost immediately showing 323 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.120 us behind the scenes stuff like the UPK stuff you're 324 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:14.919 talking about, and potentially documentaries on Blu ray releases. Where 325 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:16.879 do you see the role of a physical book like 326 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:18.639 this in today's film culture. 327 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:21.399 Well, I think a book like this has to sit alongside. 328 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:24.480 So most of my books have had a release to 329 00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:27.519 some extent with Studio Canal, perhaps with The Third Man, 330 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:30.600 The Wicker Man, Escape from New York, and Flash Gordon. 331 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:32.399 They all had. In the case of some of those, 332 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:35.200 they had mini versions of my books in their four 333 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:37.360 K releases, which I was always a bit anxious about 334 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:39.159 because I thought, well, if they've seen a little mini taster, 335 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:42.720 they might not bother with the book. But it's very 336 00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:45.480 much a companion piece, so it's recognizing that there might 337 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:48.519 be some overlap. But really, I think the trick for 338 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:51.519 these books is to find images the studios don't have, 339 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:55.399 and find things to say that are not in commentaries, 340 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:58.559 that are not in DVD extras, Because I think if 341 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:02.519 you just collated what already been talked about and have 342 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:05.279 nothing new to say and have no new way of 343 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:08.440 presenting it, then people would think, you know, I'll listen 344 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:10.319 to the director's commentary and I'll have a flick through 345 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:12.559 the gallery on the Blu ray set. That'll cover it. 346 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:16.559 I don't need John Walsh's book, you know, Untidying my House, 347 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:19.359 but we need to make sure that we have something 348 00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:21.759 new to say. So in the case of say the 349 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:24.400 wicker Man, we were trying to debunk a myth that 350 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:27.599 had been gone around for fifty years much I think 351 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:29.279 to the horror as some of the fans who held 352 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:30.960 on to that myth. But it was nice to kind 353 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:32.839 of straighten out the truth there. So I think with 354 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.160 all these books it's crucial to offer up good value 355 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:40.599 and good penmanship and good photography, of course, but also 356 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:43.160 if you have something new to say, and it doesn't 357 00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:44.759 have to be new for the sake of it or 358 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.440 controversial for the sake of it. But I think finding 359 00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:49.799 new information out we did it on all of the 360 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:52.920 books so far, and certainly on Gladiator too. The images 361 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:55.319 that were released to the press were not the ones 362 00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:57.119 that were in the book. A lot of that was 363 00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:01.720 held back for Abram's, bip Parra Amount and Scott Free 364 00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:03.799 because they wanted the book to have its own, as 365 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:08.640 it were, presentation, own marquee potential. So people have said 366 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:11.240 to me, saw the film, I've read your book. I 367 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:13.079 went back and watched the film again because actually it 368 00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:15.839 gave me a greater appreciation because the film goes by 369 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:18.319 in quite a kind of a hectic hour two and 370 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:21.319 a half hours. I saw it in Imax when it 371 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:24.079 was finally finished, finished, and I was like, wow, that 372 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:28.079 was incredible. But my book took me ages. Why did 373 00:18:28.119 --> 00:18:30.359 the film go so quickly? So you kind of need 374 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:32.759 to slow down. The book, I think slows you down 375 00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:36.559 into looking and examining more closely what happened. And you know, 376 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:38.519 there are people who are bigger fans of maybe the 377 00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:41.000 first film than they are of the second, and actually 378 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:42.680 some of the other way around. You know, if you've 379 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:46.359 only seen Gladiator two, remembering there's a twenty five year 380 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:49.519 gap between the two films, so people who were fans 381 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:52.640 of maybe the Marvel universe, they might see this film, 382 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:56.079 see young Paun Moscow who was brilliant and say, ah, 383 00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.559 this is Gladiator for me. They seen the original film 384 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:03.440 and go, oh, okay, that's okay. The fer Gladiator too. 385 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:08.519 So it has been interesting how it's divided amongst age 386 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:12.359 lines to some extent, and the same with you know, 387 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:15.000 most films where there's a I mean, there are people 388 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.079 who prefer The Phantom Menace. Yeah, so the original stars 389 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:23.559 and you know, I mean, there's nothing to take away 390 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:25.920 from the Phantom Menace, but you know, lots of people 391 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:29.119 in their top tens wouldn't put it in necessarily the 392 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:30.279 first or second place. 393 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:35.119 But who knows, very much a generational thing, as you say, yes, 394 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:38.039 I guess with you know, having all those thirty thousand 395 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:40.960 images or whatever it was, there was a temptation sometimes 396 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:44.640 to show the sort of iterative nature of the framing 397 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:47.000 and you know, the effects layered on top, and the 398 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:49.440 production design and the sextension and all of that stuff, 399 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:52.599 which to some aspect is in the book. But it 400 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:54.720 must have been very difficult to kind of rain yourself 401 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.960