WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Weird Being Way Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to episode one hundred and fifty two of the

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<v Speaker 2>Formiamentary's podcast. This is Jamie Benning talking to you here

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<v Speaker 2>from my house in London, England. It's the twenty eighth

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<v Speaker 2>of July and this is the first episode for a

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<v Speaker 2>little while. So firstly an apology. Things just got a

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<v Speaker 2>bit crazy around with work and family and fiftieth birthdays

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<v Speaker 2>and then had a few health things going on, so yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's just it just slipped past me. I just

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't find the time to get the podcast edited and uploaded.

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<v Speaker 2>But the good news is this is a great episode.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're a first time listener, welcome. The podcast is

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<v Speaker 2>dedicated to preserving film history the stories behind the scenes,

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<v Speaker 2>and you can treat this in the one hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>fifty one episodes before it as an archive of entertainment

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<v Speaker 2>and research. I hope you find it enjoyable. For the

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<v Speaker 2>regular listeners, thank you as always for joining me and

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<v Speaker 2>for your continued support. A special shout out to the

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<v Speaker 2>wonderful people supporting the podcast via Patreon, Patreon, dot com,

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<v Speaker 2>forward slash Jamie Benning, your support is absolutely crucial and

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<v Speaker 2>keeping this podcast going. Let's say going strong. I'm aiming

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<v Speaker 2>for at least another fifty patrons to make this financially viable.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you love the podcast, and I know there

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<v Speaker 2>are people that love it, there's plenty of you out

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<v Speaker 2>there listening and would like to buy me a pint

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<v Speaker 2>or a coffee if we met, consider doing the equivalent

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<v Speaker 2>of that by supporting the podcast for about twelve dollars

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<v Speaker 2>for a whole year. That will be twenty four episodes.

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<v Speaker 2>You can look at the other tears and patron as

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<v Speaker 2>well and see what kind of suits you If you

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<v Speaker 2>can't support the podcast in that way, you can go

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<v Speaker 2>and grab some exclusive merch. I'll put the link in

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<v Speaker 2>the show notes. And if neither of those is your thing,

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<v Speaker 2>you can still support the podcast by sharing it, liking it, subscribing,

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<v Speaker 2>leaving a review, commenting on the YouTube version. This is

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<v Speaker 2>just me. You know. This is a small, dependent podcast

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<v Speaker 2>and it thrives on your help in spreading the word. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>for this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with

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<v Speaker 2>John Goodson. John is a model maker and a digital

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<v Speaker 2>artist who spent more than three decades at ILM. It's

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<v Speaker 2>recently working on Mandaloriin and Grogo. But you worked on

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<v Speaker 2>Star Treks and Star Wars prequels and Rogue one and Transformers,

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<v Speaker 2>a whole bunch of stuff, and we talk about his

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<v Speaker 2>sort of childhood obsessions with Lost in Space and Staralog

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<v Speaker 2>magazine and how a friendship formed which eventually led him

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<v Speaker 2>to ILM's door, and the first terrifying few days in

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<v Speaker 2>the model shop, which he goes into some detail about.

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<v Speaker 2>And also there's a great story about a decommissioned Air

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<v Speaker 2>Force base, a thirty three foot Zeppelin model, some kerosene

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<v Speaker 2>and a cherry picker. Yeah, and the disaster that ensued. This,

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, is part one of two. John is

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<v Speaker 2>in a situation where he can't always get a good

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<v Speaker 2>connection at the moment, so we actually lost the call

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<v Speaker 2>connection and couldn't get it reestablished the night that we

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<v Speaker 2>did this, And he's agreed to come back on and

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<v Speaker 2>talk more about the later work as well. So you're

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<v Speaker 2>here right at the end there you'll just hear him

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<v Speaker 2>stop talking mid sentence, but hopefully it's tantalizing enough to

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<v Speaker 2>want to listen to part two when that comes along.

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<v Speaker 2>So here's part one of my conversation with John Goodson,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'll be back at the end for a bit

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<v Speaker 2>more jabbering on John. Actually, I'm going to just bring

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<v Speaker 2>up before we start. I actually met you very briefly

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<v Speaker 2>at Skywalker Ranch in twenty twenty three. I was being

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<v Speaker 2>given a tour by one Max Smith and Lawn Peterson, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and Lorn and you. You were surprised to see Lawn.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you were in the middle of shipping stuff

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<v Speaker 2>out of the archive. Maybe there was some museum stuff involved,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think at that point he said, oh, you

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<v Speaker 2>should get John on the podcast. And it's only taken

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<v Speaker 2>us two years.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, Well, I met the ranch pretty much every

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<v Speaker 1>single day, and Laurren would just appear and I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>why don't you tell me you're coming, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was surprised when he just yeah, that was

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<v Speaker 2>really sweet of him. I said I was coming, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'd interviewed him a couple of times, and he said, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll come and I'll give you a tour, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and he just turned up.

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<v Speaker 1>And it was great.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's very good, right, John, Thanks so much for

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<v Speaker 2>joining me. I love your work. I love to speak

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<v Speaker 2>to people's work I really admire. But I also want

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<v Speaker 2>to sort of go back to the beginning and find

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<v Speaker 2>out like where this was all sparked from. Did you

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<v Speaker 2>live in a kind of creative household, were you a

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<v Speaker 2>creative kid? Where was that kind of first spark of

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<v Speaker 2>imagination to end to the industry?

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<v Speaker 1>The thing? Okay, so the thing I remember clearly was

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<v Speaker 1>when I was about three years old, there was an

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<v Speaker 1>episode of Lost in Space called the Derelict that came on,

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<v Speaker 1>and it had the Jupiter two gets taken into this

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<v Speaker 1>giant alien spacecraft and once it's inside, it was all

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<v Speaker 1>dark and kind of creepy and the Jupiter too basically

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<v Speaker 1>filled frame and that made such an impression on me

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<v Speaker 1>when I was really little, And that's the first thing

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<v Speaker 1>like that that I can recall. Then the other thing

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<v Speaker 1>was that somebody gave us a three page color flyer

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<v Speaker 1>about the Saturn fire rocket. Is that was when the

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<v Speaker 1>Moon missions. You know, that was all sort of and

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<v Speaker 1>that was all coming together and those were really intriguing.

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<v Speaker 1>And then my dad was in the Air Force and

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<v Speaker 1>he was a surgeon. My mother was a homemaker, but

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<v Speaker 1>she did paintings for the sculpture, so that there was

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<v Speaker 1>that window into you can make stuff, you know, And

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<v Speaker 1>so we moved to this we were on Air Force

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<v Speaker 1>Base and the next door in the was a fighter pilot.

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<v Speaker 3>He got me watching Star Trek.

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<v Speaker 1>And somebody got me a copy of the book The

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<v Speaker 1>Making a Star Trek, and I was five or six,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I got right away this stuff wasn't real,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, but there was an industry where people did

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<v Speaker 1>this stuff, and I thought that was fascinating, and so

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<v Speaker 1>I remember space In nineteen ninety nine, I begged my grandmother.

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<v Speaker 1>We were in a grocery store and there was star

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<v Speaker 1>Log I think was issue number seven, and it had

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<v Speaker 1>a picture of X winging the Tie Fighter on the cover.

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<v Speaker 1>It was that promotional shot that used all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>And I didn't know what Star Wars was, but there

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<v Speaker 1>were pictures in there of Brian Johnson and Nick Alder

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<v Speaker 1>with the Eagle spacecraft models from nineteen ninety nine, and

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<v Speaker 1>that was what I wanted because it was there wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>much reference available. You didn't find pictures where you saw

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<v Speaker 1>people relative to the miniatures, and here these guys were

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<v Speaker 1>holding these three different sizes of Eagles, and I was

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<v Speaker 1>just that was I had to have it. So she

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<v Speaker 1>bought it for me, and then in there with the

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<v Speaker 1>story about this movie called Star Wars and I thought,

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<v Speaker 1>this looks really interesting. So I was there opening day

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<v Speaker 1>and saw it, and then it was in the theater,

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<v Speaker 1>and back then the movies would stand theaters for like

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<v Speaker 1>a year, and I think I saw thirty one times

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<v Speaker 1>in a year. And I would start writing letters to Island, going, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to come and work for you guys.

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<v Speaker 3>They'd write me back then, thank you for your inquiry.

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<v Speaker 1>Your letter's on file. You don't need to write us anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>And so, you know, I was fourteen years old, but

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<v Speaker 1>so that was kind of where it all really got gone.

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<v Speaker 1>And in the back of the art of books that

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<v Speaker 1>came out back then, and again there wasn't that much

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<v Speaker 1>reference information. The art of books were gold because they

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<v Speaker 1>had photographs of the models, the matte paintings, costumes, artwork,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the back there were bios of a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the people that worked on them. And in this

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<v Speaker 1>bios a lot of it was theory, either architecture or

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<v Speaker 1>industrial arts. And so that was kind of how taylored

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<v Speaker 1>by college curriculum. I went to in c State, the

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<v Speaker 1>School Design, and you know, frankly, that was really interesting,

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<v Speaker 1>but the stuff I was doing school design didn't really.

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<v Speaker 3>Changed any of that much in terms of what I

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<v Speaker 3>wanted to do in terms of building marbles.

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<v Speaker 1>So that was how they got gone. So and then

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<v Speaker 1>it led to a job at Ilanic.

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<v Speaker 2>It sounds like you didn't have a chance, really, John,

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<v Speaker 2>I knew what.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to do very clearly. I knew what I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to do. It was just well in my dad

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<v Speaker 1>bless him, he's a surgeon.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it sounds like you had the right influences

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<v Speaker 2>there from your parents as well. You know, you've got

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of artistic side, you've got the technical side.

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<v Speaker 2>It's sort of approaching you from both sides, and you've

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<v Speaker 2>got that perfect combination of engineer and artists. But how

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<v Speaker 2>did you then? You know, having the intention to get

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<v Speaker 2>into that field is one thing, and being knocked back,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, is something that often happens when you write

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<v Speaker 2>letters to these companies. How did you sort of end

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<v Speaker 2>up at ILM? What was that story?

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<v Speaker 1>So? I went to high school with the fullen name

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<v Speaker 1>Tony Hudson, and Tony and I we kind of recreated

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<v Speaker 1>the Hath the Walker battle. So he built a big

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<v Speaker 1>snow set in my one of my bedroom and we

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<v Speaker 1>had a folding picnic table, and that whole top of

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<v Speaker 1>that was snow. We had another table behind it there

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<v Speaker 1>was snow, so we could stand up between the tables

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<v Speaker 1>to do the animation. And I built three different sized walkers,

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<v Speaker 1>and the walkers they made a poster, paper, cardboard, and

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<v Speaker 1>mattboard because paper was the medium I could afford to

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<v Speaker 1>work in. But one of the walkers was about the

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<v Speaker 1>size of the film. It was about twenty two inches,

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<v Speaker 1>and there was a nine inch and there was a

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<v Speaker 1>really tiny one which I still have. And we made

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<v Speaker 1>a little beam splitter so we could add in lasers

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<v Speaker 1>and things like that. And so we did that stuff together.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, at that point, I was like seventh

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<v Speaker 1>grade or something like that, and we both said, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if either one of us gets to Island, we got

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<v Speaker 1>to let the other guy know. Well. A few years later,

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<v Speaker 1>it was been about eighty five, I think Tony got

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<v Speaker 1>hired in the creature shop, and so I came out,

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<v Speaker 1>spent five weeks and stayed on Tony's couch and went

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<v Speaker 1>to work with him pretty much every day. And I

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<v Speaker 1>got this spend an hour with Greg Jean, and Greg

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<v Speaker 1>Jean was the model supervisor and close encounters nineteen forty one.

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<v Speaker 1>He worked on most of Kris Nolan's movies until his

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<v Speaker 1>passing about three years ago. But he's big in Star

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<v Speaker 1>Trek and Greg was a huge model, script prop artwork collector. Huge.

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<v Speaker 1>Greg had two houses that were side by side with

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<v Speaker 1>two car garages. The yards were full, the houses were full,

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<v Speaker 1>the garages were full. There was a van in the driveway.

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<v Speaker 2>This full.

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<v Speaker 1>And he had five storage units. I mean it was

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<v Speaker 1>and when you looked at and it was piles of stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>but I mean when you look at it's like, is

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<v Speaker 1>that the original.

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<v Speaker 3>Of this or that?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, that's it. It was unbelievable. And so I

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<v Speaker 1>got an hour with Greg.

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<v Speaker 3>He was working on batteries not included at ILM at

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<v Speaker 3>the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Got an hour of Steve Gowing, hour with Charlie Bailey,

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<v Speaker 1>power with Isojung, and an hour with Warren Peterson. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they're all really great. There wasn't a job

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<v Speaker 1>at the time, but Greg said, he goes, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I had a year left in school. He goes, go

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<v Speaker 1>back and finish school. This is going to be here

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<v Speaker 1>when you get back. So I did, and that was

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<v Speaker 1>good advice. And Greg was a really good mentor all

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<v Speaker 1>through my career at a lovely human being, one of

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<v Speaker 1>the nicest people I've ever met and always supportive, and

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<v Speaker 1>he helped get me into the academy. He got me

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<v Speaker 1>connected with Paramount, so I was restoring what Star Trek

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<v Speaker 1>stuff they still have. So over the years has been

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<v Speaker 1>a number of things I've done for them, but he

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<v Speaker 1>was just a great influence. But that was really good advice.

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<v Speaker 1>So back in finished school and then moved back out

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<v Speaker 1>here without a job and got here and got hired

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<v Speaker 1>to come in for a week on Body Worse, which

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<v Speaker 1>was like Star to Wars, but you get miniaturized and

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<v Speaker 1>put into the human body. And so in that week

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<v Speaker 1>kind of segued into about thirty one years as an

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<v Speaker 1>employee of Lucasfilm.

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<v Speaker 2>So you joined the Model shop there in the kind

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<v Speaker 2>of in the peak of its influence in a way.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you're working alongside Bill George and on peaceing

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<v Speaker 2>and like you said, you know you contemporaries in Greg

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<v Speaker 2>Gene as well. What was the culture of that shop

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<v Speaker 2>like at the time, and you know, what did you

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<v Speaker 2>absorb from those people that still kind of informs the

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<v Speaker 2>way you were today.

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<v Speaker 1>I learned so much from those folks, and it was

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<v Speaker 1>really interesting. The model shop was a great place to

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<v Speaker 1>be because people shared what they knew, and we had

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<v Speaker 1>so many people from so many different backgrounds, and all

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<v Speaker 1>those different things combine. I mean, it's alchemy, all these

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<v Speaker 1>things combined to make magic, you know. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>people literally came from such random and different backgrounds and

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<v Speaker 1>all of that played into it. Everybody's life experience played

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<v Speaker 1>into it, and people were very sharing and you just

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<v Speaker 1>learned constantly. And I always had this vision in my

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<v Speaker 1>head that I've got this thing. It's like a quiver.

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<v Speaker 1>You put arrows into it, but it actually hangs under

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<v Speaker 1>my arm and you would learn something, you'd put that

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<v Speaker 1>in your quiver, you know, and you're constantly feeding this thing.

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<v Speaker 1>And when I got to ILM, I thought I knew

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<v Speaker 1>how to paint. I did not know how to paint.

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<v Speaker 1>And I got there and I was really perplexed because

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<v Speaker 1>they used this hideous paint called railroad colors, and everything

259
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<v Speaker 1>was kind of matt and ugly, and I was like,

260
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<v Speaker 1>this stuff is terrible. That was because of blue screen,

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<v Speaker 1>you couldn't have reflective surfaces and so and by working

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<v Speaker 1>then environment with people like Bill and Lauren, Larry, Tan

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<v Speaker 1>and Steve and all those guys. By osmosis, you learn,

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<v Speaker 1>you start, you get a sense of what things are

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<v Speaker 1>supposed to look like, you know how what level of

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<v Speaker 1>texture does it have or need to have to look

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<v Speaker 1>good on film. And so just by the process of

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<v Speaker 1>being immersed in that environment and working with all these

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<v Speaker 1>incredibly talented people, you learned how to develop that look.

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<v Speaker 1>And it was one of the things the Model Shop

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<v Speaker 1>was so wonderful because it was all about problem solving

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<v Speaker 1>and that was what made it really interesting. But you

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<v Speaker 1>also worked with such a wonderful group of people. And

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<v Speaker 1>what I think is really interesting is the Model Shop

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<v Speaker 1>still gets together on a regular basis. We see each

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<v Speaker 1>other more than once a year, you know, and that

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<v Speaker 1>is something that Model Shop has been disbanded for like

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen or sixteen years, and essentially it's this big extended family,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. And I am so thankful for all of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've seen some of those fighttoes that to get together,

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<v Speaker 2>as they always looks like there's so much well, you've

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<v Speaker 2>got so much shed experience. You just got this kind

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<v Speaker 2>of shared language language with each other. You can see

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<v Speaker 2>that there's love between all of you and admiration for

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<v Speaker 2>each other's work, and it looks like a really friendly environment.

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<v Speaker 2>But when you first walked in there, I mean, you're

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<v Speaker 2>in this place you've dreamed of being. What was the

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00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.080
<v Speaker 2>first thing you were tasked with doing? And did you

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00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:21.000
<v Speaker 2>feel nervous? Did you feel like I'm up to this was?

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<v Speaker 2>What was that first day?

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<v Speaker 1>Like? Oh? Spirit shitless? I mean, you know, I got

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00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:29.679
<v Speaker 1>there Larry Tan, Larry Tam was too week started was

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<v Speaker 1>doing the Body Worst ride. And so I got there

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<v Speaker 1>in the morning and I went into reception and Larry

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<v Speaker 1>came down and met me, and he said, okay, wait

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<v Speaker 1>down here, Jeff ma'am will come and get you. I

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00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:42.360
<v Speaker 1>had met Jeff when i'd been there previously at eighty six,

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<v Speaker 1>when I was there visiting staying with Tony. So this

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<v Speaker 1>was August of eighty eight. So I sat in the

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00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.919
<v Speaker 1>lobby and Jeff never materialized, and it got to be lunchtime,

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<v Speaker 1>and here came Larry trotting through the front office and

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<v Speaker 1>he goes, did Jeff not come down? He goes, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I never saw him. He goes, well, come with me,

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<v Speaker 1>so he just follow me. So I start following Larry

305
00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:01.039
<v Speaker 1>and he goes, I'm going to give me to Steve. Golly.

306
00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:03.720
<v Speaker 1>Steve hats rookies, just so you know, and I'm like great.

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<v Speaker 1>So he takes me in the wood shop and there's Steve,

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<v Speaker 1>and Steve hands me this piece of paper with the

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<v Speaker 1>miniaturization platform and he goes Bill disk and he walked out.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know where the bathroom is, I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>how to get back out of the building. I don't

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00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:19.480
<v Speaker 1>know where anything is, you know. I'm standing in the

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<v Speaker 1>wood shop by myself, and I'm like okay. So I

314
00:15:21.879 --> 00:15:23.840
<v Speaker 1>walked out in the hall and I saw Dennis barn

315
00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:26.360
<v Speaker 1>where I recognized from seeing him on making of you know,

316
00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:28.440
<v Speaker 1>and I said, can you can you point me to

317
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<v Speaker 1>the model shop, said Natal. He took me up to

318
00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:31.960
<v Speaker 1>the model shop and I went in and Bill George

319
00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.759
<v Speaker 1>was in there. So Bill and I talked for a

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<v Speaker 1>minute and I said, we're going to make this thing.

321
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<v Speaker 1>He goes, well, why don't you sit? Here was Eric

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<v Speaker 1>Christensen's old desk. Eric Eric was not there anymore. So

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<v Speaker 1>I sat at Eric's desk and for three days I

324
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<v Speaker 1>tried to be the invisible man, because I thought if

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00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:46.799
<v Speaker 1>they figure out him in here, they got to throw

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<v Speaker 1>me out. So I started building the miniaturization platform, but

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<v Speaker 1>as quietly and as visibly as I could. And on

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<v Speaker 1>the third day, I think I was going to use

329
00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:56.600
<v Speaker 1>the restaurant. I ran into Jeff in the hall and goes, hey,

330
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<v Speaker 1>was I supposed to talk to you? I'm like, yeah,

331
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<v Speaker 1>do I work here? And goes oh, yeah, yeah you're

332
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<v Speaker 1>working here? Like okay, good. So for three days I

333
00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:03.360
<v Speaker 1>had no idea if it was really there or not.

334
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<v Speaker 1>So that was the beginning.

335
00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:10.799
<v Speaker 2>Wow, baptism of fire. Steve really sort of druped you

336
00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:16.960
<v Speaker 2>in there and just said single swim. Was that was

337
00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:17.799
<v Speaker 2>that very Steve?

338
00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:21.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah, kind of. I mean I know Steve really well.

339
00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:24.919
<v Speaker 1>I see Steve pretty regularly, so you know, he's just

340
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:27.639
<v Speaker 1>it was just like Bourne said he where Larry said

341
00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:30.200
<v Speaker 1>he he hates rookies, and I was like, okay, give

342
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:31.720
<v Speaker 1>me the drawing. If he walked out, I'm like okay,

343
00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:33.279
<v Speaker 1>and I I have no idea what to do. I

344
00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:35.279
<v Speaker 1>don't know where to go, you know, but I was

345
00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:39.840
<v Speaker 1>able to do it, so it all worked out. Yeah.

346
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<v Speaker 2>And I'm sure being so keen and so young as well,

347
00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:47.759
<v Speaker 2>that you were putting in the hours. I mentioned, oh, yeah.

348
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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean it was a dream come true to

349
00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:52.399
<v Speaker 1>be there. Like I said, I tried to be invisible

350
00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:53.960
<v Speaker 1>for those for three days because I thought, if they

351
00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:55.879
<v Speaker 1>figure out I'm here, they're gonna throw me out, and

352
00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:58.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to leave, you know. So it was

353
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<v Speaker 1>you know, when I actually had a job, I was

354
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<v Speaker 1>like this, that was incredible. I mean, I mean I

355
00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:05.559
<v Speaker 1>couldn't believe it. You know, here are all these people,

356
00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:08.279
<v Speaker 1>because you know, there wasn't that much making up stuff.

357
00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:10.000
<v Speaker 1>When Star Wars came along, there was a lot more

358
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<v Speaker 1>of that. Not that there was that much of it,

359
00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:14.160
<v Speaker 1>but that sort of stuff wound up on regular television.

360
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<v Speaker 1>There were these specials where it's all about the making

361
00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:18.839
<v Speaker 1>of Star Wars. So these were these guys I was watching.

362
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<v Speaker 1>They were showing all these instinct and here I was

363
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<v Speaker 1>in the same space with them. It. I mean, I

364
00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:26.279
<v Speaker 1>still don't believe it. I was sitting there. The other night,

365
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.240
<v Speaker 1>I took my daughter to the premiere of Mandalorian and

366
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<v Speaker 1>I went to that. I mean, I'm living on this ship.

367
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:34.519
<v Speaker 1>I don't have a great wardrobe. I wore a Sampedro

368
00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.599
<v Speaker 1>t shirt that had the walker and one of the

369
00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:39.880
<v Speaker 1>cargo cranes here and it says I am your father.

370
00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:42.400
<v Speaker 1>That's why I were the premiere. I also didn't expect

371
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.799
<v Speaker 1>to be doing kind of like fifteen minutes where you

372
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<v Speaker 1>get there, get this text and we'll send you to

373
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<v Speaker 1>the press and photo. Ay. I'm like, I didn't come

374
00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:51.640
<v Speaker 1>dressed for that, so wound up doing it. But I

375
00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:54.279
<v Speaker 1>was there when the movie ended, you know. John Fiber

376
00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:56.920
<v Speaker 1>came out at the beginning and spoke to everybody, and

377
00:17:56.920 --> 00:17:58.559
<v Speaker 1>and and the credits were rolling, and I saw my

378
00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:01.160
<v Speaker 1>credit go by, And it doesn't seem real that I'm

379
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<v Speaker 1>in the film business. And it's been thirty six years,

380
00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:06.640
<v Speaker 1>but it still doesn't seem real. It's such a dream

381
00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:09.440
<v Speaker 1>come true, it really is. It's just I am thankful

382
00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:12.319
<v Speaker 1>for every did of it, you know, and I'm so

383
00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:13.759
<v Speaker 1>aware of how lucky I was.

384
00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, Do you remember that first moment of seeing

385
00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:20.480
<v Speaker 2>your work on the screen? Oh, that was mine?

386
00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:22.640
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember There's a strange thing that goes on

387
00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:24.440
<v Speaker 1>with that where I always have a disconnect because I

388
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:26.680
<v Speaker 1>see this stuff on screen, I'm like, that can't be

389
00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:28.599
<v Speaker 1>the one I built. I mean's just something there's some

390
00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:31.640
<v Speaker 1>magical intermediary process that happens, and one on screen is

391
00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:34.960
<v Speaker 1>something different. I still get that vibe. But yeah, it's cool.

392
00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:36.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it was funny the Manda movie. It was

393
00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.119
<v Speaker 1>really gratifying to see that ship on screen because we

394
00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:42.160
<v Speaker 1>really get to see it. And you know, we went

395
00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:44.119
<v Speaker 1>from a model shop of you know, a model shop

396
00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:47.519
<v Speaker 1>covered around between forty and sixty people, and we ballooned

397
00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:49.720
<v Speaker 1>up to something like one hundred and ten during phanom Menace,

398
00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:53.400
<v Speaker 1>and a model like that would have involved you know,

399
00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:57.599
<v Speaker 1>thirty maybe forty people because you had you know, sculptors, electricians,

400
00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:01.480
<v Speaker 1>mold makers, painters, you know, all these different things. And

401
00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:03.960
<v Speaker 1>now it's me and Dan Petrescu putting these things together.

402
00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:05.119
<v Speaker 1>Every time we do it, I'm like, I don't know

403
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.000
<v Speaker 1>how we're doing this. I don't know how we're pulling

404
00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:10.160
<v Speaker 1>it off. So yeah, it's it's pretty interesting, but it's

405
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of sad too because I miss I miss those people.

406
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:14.039
<v Speaker 1>I missed that.

407
00:19:14.359 --> 00:19:17.119
<v Speaker 3>I miss getting to work together like that a lot.

408
00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:19.160
<v Speaker 1>You know, that was what and that's why we also

409
00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:22.799
<v Speaker 1>get together because we really we really integrated as a

410
00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:26.480
<v Speaker 1>group and it you know, and you really those relationships

411
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.319
<v Speaker 1>mean a tremendous amount, and I miss getting to work

412
00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:32.319
<v Speaker 1>with him Larry Tan. Larry's the guy that hired me. Larry.

413
00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:34.440
<v Speaker 1>Actually I asked Larry if he come and helped us

414
00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:35.799
<v Speaker 1>some on Mando, and he came in for a couple

415
00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:37.200
<v Speaker 1>of weeks and helped us out with some things. And

416
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:40.119
<v Speaker 1>that was fantastic because Larry had not worked on a

417
00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:43.640
<v Speaker 1>he hadn't worked on film in twenty five years, so

418
00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:45.599
<v Speaker 1>that was really sweet having him there.

419
00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:51.359
<v Speaker 2>So wow, yeah, great to bring into that experience, you know,

420
00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:53.440
<v Speaker 2>working together. As you say, I mean, yeah, that's the

421
00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:55.920
<v Speaker 2>thing when you're working on these jobs that can be

422
00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:59.880
<v Speaker 2>quite intense. Having you know, just good people around you

423
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.559
<v Speaker 2>such a difference. As I work in live TV and

424
00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:05.000
<v Speaker 2>it can be very stressful. You know, I work on

425
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Formula one, so I have, like you know, there could

426
00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:09.640
<v Speaker 2>be five hundred million people watching a race, and if

427
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:13.799
<v Speaker 2>I do something wrong, everybody sees it. So having good

428
00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:16.240
<v Speaker 2>people around you to support you and kind of you

429
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:19.119
<v Speaker 2>keep you kind of level, is so important, is there.

430
00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:21.799
<v Speaker 2>Did you feel that when you first arrived at ILM

431
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:25.119
<v Speaker 2>that you were you surprised by the amount of or

432
00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:27.960
<v Speaker 2>the lack of time that you had to work on things,

433
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:30.240
<v Speaker 2>because obviously there's a deadline. You've got to get this

434
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:33.960
<v Speaker 2>this model finished. Was that a surprise to you, as

435
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:36.119
<v Speaker 2>having been somebody who was a hobbyist up to that point.

436
00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:39.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't. I don't remember it being really I mean,

437
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:42.559
<v Speaker 1>I remember the first big thing that I did was

438
00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:43.880
<v Speaker 1>I was going to build a model of the Titanic

439
00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:46.720
<v Speaker 1>for Ghostbusters too, and the model was eighteen feet long,

440
00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:49.920
<v Speaker 1>m and I was hesitant to get started. I did

441
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:52.279
<v Speaker 1>a full sized drawing of it, you know, and I

442
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:54.119
<v Speaker 1>kept messling with the drawing stuff from Bill. George said,

443
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, you got to actually build it. You gotta

444
00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:58.480
<v Speaker 1>stop doing this, you gotta build it. So I had,

445
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:00.279
<v Speaker 1>because I was says in it to do it. And

446
00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:02.839
<v Speaker 1>once it got going, it was great, you know, no problem.

447
00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:06.519
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I mean yeah, and film work is such

448
00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:10.279
<v Speaker 1>a different animal, and you know the production needs, especially

449
00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:12.200
<v Speaker 1>when you get on stage. I mean, my god, you

450
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:14.640
<v Speaker 1>realize that, you know, they're paying stage mental, they're paying

451
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:17.680
<v Speaker 1>for the lighting package, epe grips, everybody, all those people

452
00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:19.759
<v Speaker 1>are there, and when they're waiting on you all that money,

453
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:21.440
<v Speaker 1>there's a taxi meter at the front of the thing

454
00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:24.480
<v Speaker 1>that's spending at an incredible rate. And if they're waiting

455
00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:27.119
<v Speaker 1>on you, you don't see that, and so it was

456
00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:29.119
<v Speaker 1>amazing to me something could happen on stage in twenty

457
00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:30.759
<v Speaker 1>minutes that could have taken two or three days in

458
00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:33.680
<v Speaker 1>the shop. But there there's an intensity to it. You're

459
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:37.480
<v Speaker 1>literally shaking because you're operating. It's pure adrenaline. You're such

460
00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:39.799
<v Speaker 1>a high speed. And it was funny. A few years back,

461
00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.480
<v Speaker 1>Paul Houston and I wound up doing something for the

462
00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:45.279
<v Speaker 1>Agent Carter series from Marvel, and it was a couple

463
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.319
<v Speaker 1>of DC threes, Yeah, and it was two shots, one

464
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:50.960
<v Speaker 1>of them on the ground and snow so them. We're

465
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:52.960
<v Speaker 1>just monogram kits I bought and we put it in

466
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:55.119
<v Speaker 1>baking soad on a four by four sheep and we'd

467
00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:57.839
<v Speaker 1>move it five degrees, photograph at each you know, each

468
00:21:57.880 --> 00:21:59.720
<v Speaker 1>one of those increments. And then we had another one

469
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:02.880
<v Speaker 1>that we hung on wires, whereas on fishing line they

470
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:04.960
<v Speaker 1>had motors in it. It was a flying shot and

471
00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:07.839
<v Speaker 1>you know, trying to puppeteer this thing. You know, we

472
00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:10.880
<v Speaker 1>went from being this company that had the the state

473
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:13.200
<v Speaker 1>of the art must control equipment to Paul and Arrow

474
00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:15.480
<v Speaker 1>down there, he's got a handheld camera. We got a

475
00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.119
<v Speaker 1>model hanging on fishing line trying to make it look

476
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.079
<v Speaker 1>like it's gently turning, which doesn't just turn you start

477
00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:22.839
<v Speaker 1>to do anything to it starts wiggling into it, all

478
00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:25.039
<v Speaker 1>this stuff. And he said, I can't believe it's come

479
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:27.799
<v Speaker 1>to this. I'm like, I know, it's pathetic, but he said,

480
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:30.680
<v Speaker 1>and look around, nobody's in a hurry. Everybody on the

481
00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:32.279
<v Speaker 1>stage was just kind of hanging out. It's like we're

482
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:34.160
<v Speaker 1>so used to when you're on stage, you're on fire,

483
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:37.160
<v Speaker 1>and he's like, nobody here. This is not that. It's

484
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:40.640
<v Speaker 1>not the culture anymore, you know, it's very different. So

485
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:42.319
<v Speaker 1>and we got the shot and it was just it

486
00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:44.079
<v Speaker 1>was just kind of I thought, this is this is

487
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:48.839
<v Speaker 1>pitiful fishing line and handheld camera. Really, So it's been

488
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:52.200
<v Speaker 1>great to go back and do their TV show. Yeah,

489
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:54.240
<v Speaker 1>well and have John build these most control cameras and

490
00:22:54.279 --> 00:22:56.440
<v Speaker 1>so we kind of have that the capability. Again.

491
00:22:57.319 --> 00:22:59.720
<v Speaker 2>The thing is when that taxi meets is taking along,

492
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:02.000
<v Speaker 2>as you said, it just has to get done, doesn't

493
00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:04.240
<v Speaker 2>it Like live TV that I work in. I'm amazed

494
00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:06.920
<v Speaker 2>we get on air sometimes. You know, there can be

495
00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:09.960
<v Speaker 2>so much planning and so many sort of obstacles and

496
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:11.559
<v Speaker 2>then all of a sudden it's like, oh, we've got

497
00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:14.000
<v Speaker 2>ten minutes and bam we're on air and it's everyone's

498
00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:17.680
<v Speaker 2>firing on all cylinders. Somehow it just comes together. Was

499
00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:19.480
<v Speaker 2>there ever a time, and you don't have to say

500
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:21.640
<v Speaker 2>a specific time, but was there ever a time where

501
00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:25.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, you really felt like it didn't come together?

502
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? There are a couple. Rocketeer was one where, Yeah, that.

503
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:34.079
<v Speaker 2>Story just interested to know because you know, I think

504
00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:37.160
<v Speaker 2>we just assume that everyone is always you know, always

505
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:39.400
<v Speaker 2>gets there in the end, but sometimes it just doesn't happen.

506
00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:42.240
<v Speaker 2>Things do sort of for down around you don't.

507
00:23:42.279 --> 00:23:45.279
<v Speaker 1>We did get there in the end, but so this

508
00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:48.319
<v Speaker 1>was an interesting story if you ever heard. So there

509
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.359
<v Speaker 1>was a thirty three foot model of the Hindenburg which

510
00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:55.599
<v Speaker 1>was called the Luxembourg in the film, and we had

511
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:57.319
<v Speaker 1>it took about eight months and it was a you know,

512
00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:00.279
<v Speaker 1>Steve Gay was doing that and I think Arakila and

513
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:02.680
<v Speaker 1>Mike Fulmer and it was a huge project to build it.

514
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.160
<v Speaker 1>And then Larry Tannet and Richard Miller and I came

515
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:07.480
<v Speaker 1>in and did the skinning of it. Because it was

516
00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:10.119
<v Speaker 1>a wooden quarter inch apple ply plywood that was laser

517
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:13.279
<v Speaker 1>cut for the internal framework. So there's this complete framework

518
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:14.880
<v Speaker 1>inside of it, and then that was covered with like

519
00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:18.119
<v Speaker 1>black cheese cloth, black fish net, and then on top

520
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:20.640
<v Speaker 1>of that we used this aerial called solar text and

521
00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:23.960
<v Speaker 1>it's a synthetic fabric in its heat train. So you know,

522
00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:27.000
<v Speaker 1>Larry and Richard would stand either into the zeppelin and

523
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:28.799
<v Speaker 1>I would give one of them this two foot roll

524
00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:30.960
<v Speaker 1>of stuff and we'd roll it out, and we cut

525
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:32.400
<v Speaker 1>off about a forty foot length of it and then

526
00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:34.200
<v Speaker 1>had a clear film on it, and I would walk

527
00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:36.960
<v Speaker 1>that off depending on which direction I went. When I

528
00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:38.640
<v Speaker 1>got the end of that, I had a massive static

529
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:41.480
<v Speaker 1>charge on me, so I would zapp either Larry or Richard.

530
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:43.000
<v Speaker 1>They knew it was coming and there's nothing they could do.

531
00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:45.440
<v Speaker 1>They couldn't put it in. But so we skinned this

532
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:47.079
<v Speaker 1>thing and then I painted it. Took a week to

533
00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:49.400
<v Speaker 1>paint it, and I'm a fullick on scaffolding with a

534
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:51.599
<v Speaker 1>bank skun running back and forth painting this thing. It's

535
00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:54.200
<v Speaker 1>like a tractor trailer trailer, you know, not quite that big,

536
00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:58.960
<v Speaker 1>but big. And then we took it out to an

537
00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:01.839
<v Speaker 1>Air Force base that's local here, that was decommissioned and

538
00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:05.920
<v Speaker 1>we had an unobstructed skyline and the thing they had

539
00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:09.039
<v Speaker 1>filmed live action elements of the tier and his girlfriend

540
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:11.400
<v Speaker 1>running from the bad guy on top of the zeppelin,

541
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.359
<v Speaker 1>and so it's exploding right behind him. So starting at

542
00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:16.680
<v Speaker 1>the nose that's going towards the tail. When they get

543
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:19.559
<v Speaker 1>to the tail, Howard Hughes flies over in a pit

544
00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:21.640
<v Speaker 1>care and auto gyro and they jump onto the rope

545
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.680
<v Speaker 1>ladder and fly away as the back of the zeppelin

546
00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:26.960
<v Speaker 1>explodes and it crashes. So they'd already filmed the live

547
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:29.039
<v Speaker 1>action of all that stuff. So now we have the model.

548
00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:31.000
<v Speaker 1>So we took it out there and they were going

549
00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:33.160
<v Speaker 1>to load ten bombs in it. There were kerosene and

550
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:37.039
<v Speaker 1>black powder, and there were six openings in the bottom

551
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:38.920
<v Speaker 1>of that model where it connected to a dolly we

552
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:41.359
<v Speaker 1>could drive it around with just to move it. And

553
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:43.680
<v Speaker 1>we said before we were going to take lunch or dinner,

554
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:46.640
<v Speaker 1>whatever is. It's like two am the night shut We

555
00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:48.400
<v Speaker 1>said to the power guys before you guys loaded up

556
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:49.960
<v Speaker 1>with pyro. When you pick it up, let us come

557
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:52.720
<v Speaker 1>and close the bottom. Oh yeah, yeah, So we break

558
00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:55.599
<v Speaker 1>for the meal. We come back. It's twenty five feet

559
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:57.880
<v Speaker 1>in the air. It's got ten black powder and kerosene

560
00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:00.759
<v Speaker 1>bombs in it. There's kerosene running out of the holes,

561
00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:03.119
<v Speaker 1>and now we got to go up there and iron

562
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:05.119
<v Speaker 1>and we're using the irons that are plugged in iron

563
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:08.880
<v Speaker 1>the bottom shut and so you know, we go to

564
00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:13.079
<v Speaker 1>the cherry picker and the Bob Finley Senior he comes

565
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:15.519
<v Speaker 1>by and he goes, if she flashes five second light

566
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:17.519
<v Speaker 1>for the explosion, I'm like, oh. And then Dave parent

567
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:19.279
<v Speaker 1>who's driving the cherry picker, I mean, goes.

568
00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:22.319
<v Speaker 3>Flashes a five second land cherry picker.

569
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:23.519
<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, well, what are we gonna do? And

570
00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:25.240
<v Speaker 1>he goes, well, we jump and I'm like, and what

571
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:29.160
<v Speaker 1>it blows up and falls on us, and he goes, uh, oh,

572
00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:31.880
<v Speaker 1>they gave us these Nomac suits that put your face

573
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:33.640
<v Speaker 1>in your hands, you know, because you don't need those.

574
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:36.039
<v Speaker 1>And we went up and there's a picture of me

575
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:38.559
<v Speaker 1>in Cineffects magazine with the iron, like just with this

576
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:40.799
<v Speaker 1>mortified look on my face, ironing this thing shut. And

577
00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:43.079
<v Speaker 1>there's literally kerosene running out in the holes, and I

578
00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:45.200
<v Speaker 1>think Charlie Bailey and one of the teamsters was in

579
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:47.720
<v Speaker 1>the other picker. So we got it all sealed up,

580
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:51.119
<v Speaker 1>didn't blow up. We get back down. Now you got

581
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:54.119
<v Speaker 1>about ninety people out there. You got fans, smoke, blowers, lights,

582
00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:55.839
<v Speaker 1>all this equipment, and I think we had six high

583
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:58.200
<v Speaker 1>speed cameras and every one of those cameras you have

584
00:26:58.200 --> 00:26:59.680
<v Speaker 1>to get a speed call off O, because shoot three

585
00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:02.240
<v Speaker 1>hundred a second. And once you get all six speed

586
00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:04.920
<v Speaker 1>calls action, then you know. So they went through all that,

587
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:06.799
<v Speaker 1>we'll do this. We'll turn on the fan, the smoke lower,

588
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:09.119
<v Speaker 1>all this, blah blah blah. We'll get the speed calls

589
00:27:09.160 --> 00:27:12.319
<v Speaker 1>and on action. It will go one through ten, and

590
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:13.960
<v Speaker 1>when it gets to ten, there's a guy whose own

591
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:15.559
<v Speaker 1>job is to push a button that'll cut the two

592
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:19.559
<v Speaker 1>cables and we'll fall out a frame. So okay, everybody

593
00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:23.519
<v Speaker 1>gets going, fans, smoke, going, action, speed and boom and

594
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:25.480
<v Speaker 1>it goes one and ten and the guy cuts the

595
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:28.039
<v Speaker 1>cable and it falls out of frame and it blows

596
00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:31.039
<v Speaker 1>up on the ground and in fifteen seconds. I think

597
00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:33.039
<v Speaker 1>it took eight months to build it. In fifteen seconds,

598
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:36.759
<v Speaker 1>it is this charred rubble pile that iron I stuck

599
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:38.960
<v Speaker 1>into a dumpster the size of a desk. The next day,

600
00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:41.119
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's gone. And that was the climax of

601
00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:43.079
<v Speaker 1>the movie. And it's gone, and I said, I was

602
00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:45.720
<v Speaker 1>standing next to Dicky Dova. Dicky is one of our hands.

603
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:50.400
<v Speaker 1>Dickie's dad was a vaudelt performer named Ben Dova, and

604
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:53.480
<v Speaker 1>his dad had been on the Hindenburg when it came

605
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:56.440
<v Speaker 1>over on that last flight. His dad actually shot color

606
00:27:56.559 --> 00:28:00.599
<v Speaker 1>film during that last flight and Dicky. There's footage of

607
00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:03.279
<v Speaker 1>Dickey on his mom's shoulders when the Henderburg arrivdal. Dicky

608
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:05.200
<v Speaker 1>was there when it blew out, and his dad survived.

609
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:07.680
<v Speaker 1>But I'm standing next to Dicky and the thing goes

610
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:09.279
<v Speaker 1>boom boom, falls on the ground, blows up, and I

611
00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:11.359
<v Speaker 1>turned around Dickie, I said, is that what was supposed

612
00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:13.319
<v Speaker 1>to happen? He goes, oh, I don't think so. I

613
00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:17.839
<v Speaker 1>don't think so. So that night, that's journal the next

614
00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:21.319
<v Speaker 1>day mid front page. Why visual effects cost so much money?

615
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:23.759
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know if they ever sorted out exactly

616
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:26.480
<v Speaker 1>what went wrong. But a second Zeppelin got built in

617
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:28.799
<v Speaker 1>about six weeks with three ships going around the clock,

618
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:32.000
<v Speaker 1>and that's the one that's in the film. So you know,

619
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:34.920
<v Speaker 1>there's one of those places where it didn't go as planned.

620
00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:37.839
<v Speaker 1>They were able to recover, you know, and it worked,

621
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:40.720
<v Speaker 1>but what a what a stressful evening and it was

622
00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:43.599
<v Speaker 1>just that realization it's gone and we did not get

623
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:45.720
<v Speaker 1>the got and we only had one so you know,

624
00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:51.240
<v Speaker 1>that was a gamble usually built three for pipes. So yeah, anyway,

625
00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:52.160
<v Speaker 1>that's one of those.

626
00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:54.839
<v Speaker 2>Time, right, yeah, yeah, lessons lent.

627
00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:58.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah. It was a you know, and not everything

628
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:00.519
<v Speaker 1>worked and that's part of the price that says, you know,

629
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:04.599
<v Speaker 1>it's experimentation, especially pyro, you know, because I always treated

630
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:06.720
<v Speaker 1>like a science experiment. You don't know what's going to happen,

631
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:08.400
<v Speaker 1>so that was always fun to try different stuff. And

632
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:11.279
<v Speaker 1>Howie weed Camp with a really good idea and that

633
00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:15.000
<v Speaker 1>was using pasta in pyro stuff because it comes to

634
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:17.799
<v Speaker 1>all kinds of interesting shapes you paint it and during

635
00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:19.440
<v Speaker 1>the explosion you can't tell what it is, but it's

636
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:22.359
<v Speaker 1>great debris and it really is you know, really responds

637
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:24.880
<v Speaker 1>to the shockwave brings them all up. So that was

638
00:29:24.920 --> 00:29:27.920
<v Speaker 1>a really great thing, you know, but it's all experimentation,

639
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:29.920
<v Speaker 1>and that was the cool thing. You know, you're doing stuff,

640
00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:33.000
<v Speaker 1>you're using materials in ways that weren't ended, you know,

641
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:35.680
<v Speaker 1>and wild ideas. Ever, we were doing Fire in the

642
00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:41.680
<v Speaker 1>Sky and that was an alien abduction movie with DB's swinging. Yep,

643
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.400
<v Speaker 1>there's dB swinging. But they had an alien spacecraft, and

644
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.680
<v Speaker 1>the way it was described it was you were looking

645
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:50.680
<v Speaker 1>at the bottom of the characters looking up at the

646
00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:53.160
<v Speaker 1>bottom of it, and it's these islands of black with

647
00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:58.240
<v Speaker 1>lava flowing between them, and at a certain point, the lava

648
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:00.599
<v Speaker 1>of the islands kind of go away from the center

649
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:01.960
<v Speaker 1>and exposed in the middle of it, and a shaft

650
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:02.400
<v Speaker 1>of light.

651
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:03.599
<v Speaker 3>Comes down and take it away.

652
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:06.119
<v Speaker 1>So we had a model of the spaceship that's about

653
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:08.759
<v Speaker 1>three feet in diameter, which was basically it looked like

654
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.079
<v Speaker 1>a big mushroom cap kindo and it was a clear

655
00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:13.079
<v Speaker 1>plastic one. And then over the top of the clear

656
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:16.160
<v Speaker 1>it used bondo and put kind of a shell over it.

657
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:17.680
<v Speaker 1>There's about a quarter it's thick, and then went back

658
00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:20.720
<v Speaker 1>with drimal tools and carved all these rivulets in it

659
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:23.759
<v Speaker 1>that emitted from the top down the sides and from

660
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:26.519
<v Speaker 1>the bottom towards the top. And then inside of it

661
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:30.599
<v Speaker 1>we had color gels and we had polarizing gels. And

662
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:32.559
<v Speaker 1>I've been down on the set for Star Trek the

663
00:30:32.599 --> 00:30:34.799
<v Speaker 1>Next Generation and they had all these flat panel monitors

664
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:36.960
<v Speaker 1>and I was with my Kakuda and I said, you

665
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:38.680
<v Speaker 1>have Bill George, and I said, how does this work?

666
00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:41.200
<v Speaker 1>We pulled one of them out and it's literally this

667
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:44.359
<v Speaker 1>polarizing FuMB that's printed on plastic. And then if you

668
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.440
<v Speaker 1>take a polarizing wheel, when those when the polar polarity

669
00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:49.240
<v Speaker 1>lines up and goes in and out of line, it

670
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:52.039
<v Speaker 1>causes animation. So they had all these different samples of

671
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:55.079
<v Speaker 1>different things that would create move So having seen that,

672
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:57.559
<v Speaker 1>I put that inside the saucer and they were about

673
00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:00.279
<v Speaker 1>I think there were like one hundred. There are one

674
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:04.880
<v Speaker 1>hundred and twenty lights, six cooling fans, nine spinning polarizing discs,

675
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:06.440
<v Speaker 1>and a thing called the salad bowl in the bottom

676
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:08.519
<v Speaker 1>that had polarizing film in it. So all this stuff

677
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:11.240
<v Speaker 1>is turning in there, and it made the lava appear

678
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:13.519
<v Speaker 1>to come down from the top. It was animated and

679
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:16.599
<v Speaker 1>come up from the bottom. And so for the shot

680
00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:18.240
<v Speaker 1>where he looks up and gets sucked into the bottom

681
00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:20.960
<v Speaker 1>of it, we took some of this ripple plex that's

682
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.920
<v Speaker 1>like used for shower doors and heated it up on

683
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:24.480
<v Speaker 1>the vacuum form and made it into kind of a

684
00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:26.920
<v Speaker 1>dome shape and it was four feet square. Then on

685
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:29.759
<v Speaker 1>top of that we put pancake syrup. Then on top

686
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:31.720
<v Speaker 1>of that we took styrofoam bead foam and cut it

687
00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:34.799
<v Speaker 1>into thin, like sixteenth inch sections and painted that with

688
00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:38.799
<v Speaker 1>black temporary hairspray, and those were the islands where the rivulets,

689
00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:42.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, And we'd bottom line this thing, and then

690
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:46.039
<v Speaker 1>we had we would right before we would shoot, we

691
00:31:46.119 --> 00:31:48.039
<v Speaker 1>had silk. That was it. We laid silk. They were

692
00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:50.920
<v Speaker 1>like silk strands that were about four inches wide and

693
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:52.640
<v Speaker 1>they all intersected over the center of it. But when

694
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:55.240
<v Speaker 1>you poured the pancake shirt over, it became transparent. We

695
00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:58.839
<v Speaker 1>stuck the bead foam islands on top of that, and

696
00:31:58.920 --> 00:32:01.200
<v Speaker 1>right before we'd shoot, spray it with ab smoke, and

697
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:02.759
<v Speaker 1>that's you've got this. I don't know if you use

698
00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:05.000
<v Speaker 1>it anymore, but it was two components. Spray the first

699
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:06.519
<v Speaker 1>component on it, and right before you shoot, spray the

700
00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:10.279
<v Speaker 1>second army, and you get this really low hanging smoke smoldering,

701
00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:13.079
<v Speaker 1>and it's like if you see Terminator one, you see

702
00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:15.119
<v Speaker 1>Schwarzenegger at one point it's sort of drifting around on

703
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:16.759
<v Speaker 1>his head, and that's what it is, as ap smoke.

704
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:19.160
<v Speaker 1>So that gave us this really interesting low lying smoke,

705
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:21.680
<v Speaker 1>and then when we went to film, we had about

706
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:23.559
<v Speaker 1>five or six people around it. Everybody would grab one

707
00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:25.599
<v Speaker 1>of these silk things and then we'd spray it with

708
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.799
<v Speaker 1>acetone so the islands would dissolve. And at the same

709
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:31.119
<v Speaker 1>time we'd pull the silks and ride on the pancakes

710
00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:33.559
<v Speaker 1>and all the islands would leave from the center and

711
00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:36.880
<v Speaker 1>expose that. So it was this crazy setup, but you know,

712
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:38.359
<v Speaker 1>it gave us what we're looking for. But you know,

713
00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:41.759
<v Speaker 1>it's all experimentation, you know, it was really it's you know,

714
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:44.200
<v Speaker 1>that was the fun part. You're always coming up with

715
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:47.440
<v Speaker 1>wild ideas and look when we'd bid stuff and it's like, wow,

716
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:49.440
<v Speaker 1>we think said take sixty six weeks. I'm like, we

717
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:50.880
<v Speaker 1>don't know how we're going to do it exactly, but

718
00:32:50.920 --> 00:32:52.200
<v Speaker 1>we think it will take this long, you know. But

719
00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:55.200
<v Speaker 1>it was always Steve Golly always referred to it as

720
00:32:55.319 --> 00:33:02.640
<v Speaker 1>swag scientific wild ass guests. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, So.

721
00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:06.519
<v Speaker 2>It really is a science experiment, isn't it. Every time?

722
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:09.640
<v Speaker 2>That's the attitude I always come across with people that

723
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:13.480
<v Speaker 2>worked to ILM was sure, we'll do it. We don't

724
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:16.079
<v Speaker 2>know how, but we'll find a way, whatever way that

725
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:17.880
<v Speaker 2>turns out being, and it might be something that you

726
00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:20.759
<v Speaker 2>then taken to the next show, or it might be

727
00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:21.839
<v Speaker 2>something you never do again.

728
00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:23.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh yeah. I mean there are a lot of things.

729
00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:26.599
<v Speaker 1>All those experiences, they don't all build towards something, but

730
00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:28.839
<v Speaker 1>a lot of them contribute, you know, and that was

731
00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:31.720
<v Speaker 1>the cool thing. Everybody's different experience really helped. When you

732
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:35.039
<v Speaker 1>blend out, blended it all together, you got really stuff

733
00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:38.160
<v Speaker 1>from it. And I remember as people were getting poached

734
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:41.559
<v Speaker 1>and going to computer graphics that you know, prior to that,

735
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:44.119
<v Speaker 1>I felt like we had this amazing machine and you

736
00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:46.480
<v Speaker 1>could plug in a drawing on one end of it

737
00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:47.880
<v Speaker 1>and you're going to get something out of the other

738
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:50.279
<v Speaker 1>end of it. And then as people started going away,

739
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:52.039
<v Speaker 1>I was like, you know, they're taking parts of the

740
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:54.680
<v Speaker 1>machine away and it's not going to work as well.

741
00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:56.559
<v Speaker 1>And it was really it was very difficult. And then

742
00:33:56.599 --> 00:33:59.960
<v Speaker 1>I went to computer graphics, so but it was an

743
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:02.119
<v Speaker 1>inevitable It was kind of like the model shop was

744
00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:05.279
<v Speaker 1>not the direction things were going, you know, that was

745
00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:07.920
<v Speaker 1>very apparent. The digital thing was picking up steam and

746
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:10.880
<v Speaker 1>that was where all the emphasis was. And there's still

747
00:34:11.079 --> 00:34:13.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, still room for using miniatures and things like that.

748
00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:16.639
<v Speaker 1>But I think a lot of productions the comfort level

749
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:20.079
<v Speaker 1>because they don't know practical comfort level is to, you know,

750
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:23.920
<v Speaker 1>have it be a digital solution, and you know, practical

751
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:26.559
<v Speaker 1>people have less experience with it, and it is sort

752
00:34:26.599 --> 00:34:28.800
<v Speaker 1>of unpredictable, but you know, the results tend to be

753
00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:29.679
<v Speaker 1>pretty pretty good.

754
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:34.159
<v Speaker 2>Did you did you really feel that kind of tiede

755
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:36.920
<v Speaker 2>of the you know, the digital wave coming towards you,

756
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.000
<v Speaker 2>and did you feel that you had to be kind

757
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:41.880
<v Speaker 2>of agile and move into that direction because that if

758
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:43.519
<v Speaker 2>you wanted to stay in the industry, that's where you

759
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:44.039
<v Speaker 2>needed to go.

760
00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:46.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. At ILM, it was like I always think about

761
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:48.639
<v Speaker 1>the never ending story of the great nothing that's coming,

762
00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:50.360
<v Speaker 1>and that's what it felt like. It was like, you

763
00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:52.119
<v Speaker 1>know what, And there were a couple of times we

764
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:55.360
<v Speaker 1>were really close to being shut down, you know, and

765
00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:57.000
<v Speaker 1>one of the things that saved us at one point

766
00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:00.840
<v Speaker 1>was you had a commercial division, and commercial the response

767
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:03.719
<v Speaker 1>there so fast you turn around us. What is so

768
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:06.480
<v Speaker 1>quick that without the model shop we couldn't have done

769
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:09.800
<v Speaker 1>those And so that was one time that saved us.

770
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:13.119
<v Speaker 1>And then ultimately, I think really what it came down

771
00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:15.440
<v Speaker 1>to was there was less and less work for the

772
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:17.639
<v Speaker 1>model shop. But I think also George wanted to remove

773
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:20.039
<v Speaker 1>any kind of a crutch that the model shop provided

774
00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:25.199
<v Speaker 1>and forced computer graphics that next step, you know, and

775
00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:27.480
<v Speaker 1>that was pretty hard, you know, it was very difficult

776
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:30.239
<v Speaker 1>some people. Some people were retired at that point, some

777
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:33.519
<v Speaker 1>people didn't make the transition, and it was it's pretty bleak.

778
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:35.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Light Magic Season two kind of covers a

779
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:38.320
<v Speaker 1>lot of that, and you know, and it's it was sad,

780
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.519
<v Speaker 1>you know, and I wanted one into computer graphics. It

781
00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:44.119
<v Speaker 1>was just it was an adaptation because if you didn't,

782
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:46.480
<v Speaker 1>you weren't going to be working anywhere. Mm hmm.

783
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:50.639
<v Speaker 2>When when you sort of came back to making models

784
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:55.039
<v Speaker 2>later on, I think obviously the Mandalorian was one of

785
00:35:55.039 --> 00:35:58.079
<v Speaker 2>those you returned to that physical what what what felt

786
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:00.639
<v Speaker 2>different to you and what kind of came back immediately?

787
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:04.199
<v Speaker 1>Well, I never stopped building stuff, so that was always

788
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:06.960
<v Speaker 1>I was always doing things in computer graphics. And there

789
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:08.440
<v Speaker 1>were things that would come up at ILM where I

790
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:13.760
<v Speaker 1>do Minish look, but not that often. But it was different,

791
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:16.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, the biggest thing was not having the model

792
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:19.079
<v Speaker 1>shop and not having all the people. You know, it

793
00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:21.519
<v Speaker 1>was a different world. It's just kind of a low

794
00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:23.320
<v Speaker 1>type thing. You know. I worked with one other guy

795
00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:26.760
<v Speaker 1>primarily and Dan, and that that's that's it. That that

796
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:30.000
<v Speaker 1>was That was the hardest part, you know, not having

797
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:33.840
<v Speaker 1>that camaraderie, not having that, you know, and it I

798
00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:37.280
<v Speaker 1>was really sad that somebody didn't step in and acquire

799
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:39.760
<v Speaker 1>the model shop because you had this talent pool that

800
00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:44.239
<v Speaker 1>was phenomenal and I thought this this hastened to it,

801
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:46.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, I mean, but nobody did it just it

802
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:49.000
<v Speaker 1>was allowed to just dissolve, you know, And that was

803
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:52.079
<v Speaker 1>that was very sad. So, you know, and the other thing,

804
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:57.039
<v Speaker 1>it's different. Technology changed spot so information, you know, is

805
00:36:57.239 --> 00:37:00.360
<v Speaker 1>you're getting it as getting it as email and you're

806
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:03.920
<v Speaker 1>getting digital vender's things like that, and that's a different animal.

807
00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:06.360
<v Speaker 1>And then a lot of the design work has done

808
00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:09.159
<v Speaker 1>digitally too, so elements to it or were different, but

809
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:11.159
<v Speaker 1>then so much of it was very much the stay

810
00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:12.480
<v Speaker 1>mm hmm.

811
00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:15.599
<v Speaker 2>And I guess you've also got that you've lost that

812
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:19.320
<v Speaker 2>kind of library of objects as well in the model shop,

813
00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:22.400
<v Speaker 2>whether it's a tool or whether it's you know, a

814
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:25.000
<v Speaker 2>model or an area you went to because I know,

815
00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:26.800
<v Speaker 2>I need this thing, and I know that's over there

816
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:30.400
<v Speaker 2>in that corner. All of that's gone. Well, that physical library.

817
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:33.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, and that's that's way and more of

818
00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:35.800
<v Speaker 1>a challenge all the time because materials go away. I

819
00:37:35.800 --> 00:37:36.880
<v Speaker 1>mean the other the day, I went to a hobby

820
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:38.639
<v Speaker 1>shop here in the LA area and all in one

821
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:40.079
<v Speaker 1>of us brass wire and they're like, oh, we're having

822
00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:43.400
<v Speaker 1>trouble getting it from a distributor. I'm like, what I mean,

823
00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:46.679
<v Speaker 1>brass wire? And you know, and the K and S

824
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:50.280
<v Speaker 1>is a brand of metal materials. They make contens of

825
00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:54.159
<v Speaker 1>tubing and it's telescoping tubeings and rods and square tubes

826
00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:56.320
<v Speaker 1>and all kind of stuff. And I noticed that those

827
00:37:56.440 --> 00:37:58.280
<v Speaker 1>racks which you'll see in hardware stores, a lot of

828
00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:02.599
<v Speaker 1>them either they're not restocking you altogether gone. And I

829
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:05.440
<v Speaker 1>went the other day to buy some solvent, which I've

830
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:09.119
<v Speaker 1>been using since I've been in the business. And I

831
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:11.159
<v Speaker 1>went to a plastic shop I really like down here

832
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:13.599
<v Speaker 1>in southern California, and I bought a bunch of styrene

833
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:16.639
<v Speaker 1>and said, I need some this particular product. They said,

834
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:18.199
<v Speaker 1>we can't sell to you. And I said, what, we

835
00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:20.360
<v Speaker 1>can't sell that type of solvent in La County And

836
00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:25.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, but you're a plastics fabrication facility. I mean,

837
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:27.679
<v Speaker 1>you can't operate without it. And they said, we're Vegas

838
00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:29.440
<v Speaker 1>and buying it and bringing it back because they can't

839
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:34.320
<v Speaker 1>get it locally. So materials way constant. You know, the

840
00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:36.719
<v Speaker 1>type of primer that you like goes away. I mean

841
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:39.119
<v Speaker 1>you name it railroad colors, which was the primary pengus

842
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:41.559
<v Speaker 1>that I that's been out of production now for I

843
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:45.320
<v Speaker 1>don't know, maybe sixteen twenty years. So you know, you

844
00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:47.280
<v Speaker 1>have to adapt and try and find other stuff to

845
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:50.000
<v Speaker 1>do the job with. And that's that's front. A guy

846
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:52.400
<v Speaker 1>talked to me the other day. He works in a

847
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:57.159
<v Speaker 1>fabrication facility where they make looseite and it's large, large

848
00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:01.599
<v Speaker 1>loose objects. Plexiglass was a type of plastic they used,

849
00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:05.360
<v Speaker 1>and I can't recall the name of it, but they

850
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:08.599
<v Speaker 1>would vacuum form the part. Then they would use the

851
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:11.360
<v Speaker 1>vacuum forms and cast the leo site into that and

852
00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:13.960
<v Speaker 1>the loose sit wouldn't interact with this plastic, and it

853
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:17.039
<v Speaker 1>was their primary means of doing this. That plastic is

854
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:20.119
<v Speaker 1>no longer manufactured and there's not a substitute, and he

855
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:23.519
<v Speaker 1>is scrambling to try and figure out how they can

856
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:25.599
<v Speaker 1>make these parts because they have to be baked in

857
00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:30.360
<v Speaker 1>an autoclave and any other plastic will blend into the plexiglass.

858
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:33.639
<v Speaker 1>They wind up combined where it's this other material to

859
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:36.239
<v Speaker 1>do that, and they don't have a solution at this point.

860
00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:38.079
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what they're going to do. But that's

861
00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:41.000
<v Speaker 1>a constant that the materials keep changing in its air

862
00:39:41.079 --> 00:39:44.519
<v Speaker 1>quality or environmental reasons. And you know, if it's really good,

863
00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:47.480
<v Speaker 1>if it works great, it's really bad, it's carcinogenic, or

864
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:50.559
<v Speaker 1>it's toxic or you know, we're both and so you know,

865
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:54.360
<v Speaker 1>those things keep going, and so that substitution process, it

866
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:56.440
<v Speaker 1>gets harder and harder to do the same things. Now.

867
00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we often talk about, you know, new technologies. Really

868
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:03.840
<v Speaker 2>hear much discussion now in the outside world about the

869
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:08.440
<v Speaker 2>technology kind of being left behind. It's really an interesting subject,

870
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:12.320
<v Speaker 2>I think, because it you know, one element of that

871
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:14.679
<v Speaker 2>chain is removed and suddenly you can't do the thing

872
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:18.519
<v Speaker 2>that you know you can do quickly, let's say, because

873
00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:19.639
<v Speaker 2>it no longer exists.

874
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, it even goes on with the newer technology. Because

875
00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:24.719
<v Speaker 1>I was reading something the other day that in the past,

876
00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:28.639
<v Speaker 1>for fighting forest fires, the four services reached out to

877
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:32.280
<v Speaker 1>the military and they've gotten next military aircraft to do

878
00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:34.320
<v Speaker 1>the fire mantions and that sort of thing. And then

879
00:40:34.360 --> 00:40:38.000
<v Speaker 1>I read they said, the limitation is not the hours

880
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:41.039
<v Speaker 1>on the aircraft anymore. It will probably be software that

881
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:43.360
<v Speaker 1>will make it so. But the plane can't fly. And

882
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:46.320
<v Speaker 1>so it's really interesting that the obsopleuscence of this yeah,

883
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:49.000
<v Speaker 1>makes the plane not usable anymore, and we run into

884
00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:50.480
<v Speaker 1>it all the time with equipment, and it was that

885
00:40:50.599 --> 00:40:53.639
<v Speaker 1>was the thing. So I thought was interesting was I

886
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:56.960
<v Speaker 1>went and talked to a tenth grade class and I said,

887
00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:58.760
<v Speaker 1>you're you're all going to work in an environment where

888
00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:01.920
<v Speaker 1>you're going to use computers. And it's interesting because periodically

889
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:03.880
<v Speaker 1>you're going to get new hardware and there will be

890
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:05.480
<v Speaker 1>changes that will happen. It's like when you get in

891
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:07.400
<v Speaker 1>their phone. Now your printer doesn't work and you can't

892
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:10.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, all these different things don't function, so it

893
00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:12.880
<v Speaker 1>requires buying all new stuff. And I said, so you'll

894
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:15.239
<v Speaker 1>have to adjust to the new hardware, But I said

895
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:17.960
<v Speaker 1>the software will change way more frequently than that, and

896
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:20.199
<v Speaker 1>you will have to continue to relearn how to do

897
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:23.159
<v Speaker 1>the same job with new software because it doesn't stay

898
00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:26.599
<v Speaker 1>static for long. You know, it's always transitioning. So it's

899
00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:29.599
<v Speaker 1>interesting that you know, materials go away, but then also

900
00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:32.639
<v Speaker 1>support for a lot of these things it doesn't exist,

901
00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:34.440
<v Speaker 1>and it doesn't take very long for come ups.

902
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:38.039
<v Speaker 2>And like you're in the business as well, and so

903
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:40.239
<v Speaker 2>I carry on, said I just said, carry on. I

904
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:43.199
<v Speaker 2>like my old fashioned stuff that doesn't have software, but

905
00:41:43.239 --> 00:41:48.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, it just works. Yeah, yeah, talking about like

906
00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:52.159
<v Speaker 2>it just working. You you've also on the other side

907
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:56.599
<v Speaker 2>of your job. You've got to create these spacecraft, for instance,

908
00:41:56.639 --> 00:42:00.480
<v Speaker 2>that actually look like they function as a real vehicle.

909
00:42:01.239 --> 00:42:03.079
<v Speaker 2>I think you've talked before. I've heard you an interview're

910
00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:05.760
<v Speaker 2>talking before about the mechanical language you kind of have

911
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:09.159
<v Speaker 2>to instill in these items, like how you how'd you

912
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:11.639
<v Speaker 2>go about doing that? Is it a feeling thing? Is

913
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:15.280
<v Speaker 2>it looking at references? Is it a combination of a

914
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:17.440
<v Speaker 2>bunch of things? But how do you sort of you know,

915
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:21.159
<v Speaker 2>I think of like the ship in ah Soka. I

916
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:23.719
<v Speaker 2>think you were at celebration here in London with that model,

917
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:24.159
<v Speaker 2>weren't you.

918
00:42:24.519 --> 00:42:29.159
<v Speaker 1>I know I was with it at celebration Anaheim was Anaheim?

919
00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, yeah, But I think of that ship in

920
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:34.719
<v Speaker 2>terms of you know, it's got sort of mechanical movement

921
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:36.480
<v Speaker 2>in it, and it's another sort of way for us

922
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:38.920
<v Speaker 2>as the audience to just buy it. There's something about

923
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:41.760
<v Speaker 2>a spaceship that you can just buy. Whether it's like

924
00:42:41.800 --> 00:42:45.119
<v Speaker 2>a snow speeder that's using a flap to turn to

925
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:47.519
<v Speaker 2>bank or whatever. You know, you just there's those little

926
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:50.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of tricks. Is that something you just learn over

927
00:42:50.440 --> 00:42:52.800
<v Speaker 2>time or do you Is that something you really study hard?

928
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:55.880
<v Speaker 1>Well? I think I think really a lot of artists

929
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:59.320
<v Speaker 1>are really good observers, and so you pay attention to

930
00:42:59.320 --> 00:43:03.159
<v Speaker 1>a lot of deep And it was funny because one

931
00:43:03.159 --> 00:43:05.880
<v Speaker 1>of the folks was working on an issue on one

932
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:08.719
<v Speaker 1>film and they had these vehicles and he was doing

933
00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:12.039
<v Speaker 1>design work and the vehicles were cargo vessels, but the

934
00:43:12.039 --> 00:43:14.760
<v Speaker 1>whole top of them was flat and there was anything

935
00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:16.239
<v Speaker 1>up there. And he said, I don't know what to do.

936
00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:17.519
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what to put up here. And I said,

937
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:19.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, if you think about it, it's a cargo vessel.

938
00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:21.639
<v Speaker 1>If I had a cargo vessel it had a flat

939
00:43:21.639 --> 00:43:23.679
<v Speaker 1>top on it, I would put containers on top of it.

940
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:26.239
<v Speaker 1>I put something use that surface. And I said, why

941
00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:27.920
<v Speaker 1>don't you come up with like a track system that

942
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:31.800
<v Speaker 1>goes up there. That implies and you don't have to

943
00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:34.039
<v Speaker 1>actually execute it at all. But if you do it

944
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:37.920
<v Speaker 1>in a logical manner, it makes sense. That'll telegraph, it'll read,

945
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:40.159
<v Speaker 1>and that's where you know, if you look at I

946
00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:43.280
<v Speaker 1>remember like transformers. You know, it was funny when we

947
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:46.280
<v Speaker 1>did the first film. We did them without any damage

948
00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:48.400
<v Speaker 1>or weathering or anything like that, and when they're rendered

949
00:43:48.440 --> 00:43:51.360
<v Speaker 1>they look like big computer graphics things. But going back

950
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.800
<v Speaker 1>in and putting the metal scrapes and the oil leaks

951
00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:55.960
<v Speaker 1>and all those things on it, all those real world

952
00:43:56.119 --> 00:43:59.760
<v Speaker 1>cues helped convince you that this thing is functional than

953
00:43:59.800 --> 00:44:02.239
<v Speaker 1>it's real. And I always say that the job in

954
00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:05.000
<v Speaker 1>visual effects is lit liars, And if we've done our

955
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:06.840
<v Speaker 1>job well enough, you don't realize you've been lied to.

956
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.360
<v Speaker 1>But you know, conveying all those real world elements, that's

957
00:44:10.360 --> 00:44:12.800
<v Speaker 1>why weathering is so important, you know, with vehicles and things,

958
00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:15.719
<v Speaker 1>because that convinces you it's real. It also helps to

959
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:18.199
<v Speaker 1>find the scale every one of those things. Anything you

960
00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:21.000
<v Speaker 1>can do, it gives you an advantage in terms of

961
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:24.559
<v Speaker 1>making it more realistic, giving it a level of texture

962
00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:28.119
<v Speaker 1>that reads like a real thing. You know, an implying

963
00:44:28.119 --> 00:44:30.639
<v Speaker 1>mechanical language. I love how the falcon is covered in

964
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:33.559
<v Speaker 1>model kit parts and you don't know what any of

965
00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:35.559
<v Speaker 1>it does, but the way it's put on there, it

966
00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:37.719
<v Speaker 1>implies that there's a function to it. It looks like

967
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:40.760
<v Speaker 1>it does something. And there was a film called Star

968
00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:42.599
<v Speaker 1>Crash that came out right at the same time as

969
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:44.719
<v Speaker 1>Star Wars came out shortly after the first Star Wars,

970
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:49.360
<v Speaker 1>and they made spaceships but it looked like they've covered

971
00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:50.840
<v Speaker 1>them in glue and then rolled them through a vat

972
00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:53.400
<v Speaker 1>of model kit parts and that was it. And it's like,

973
00:44:54.119 --> 00:44:56.599
<v Speaker 1>it so doesn't work because there was no sensitivity to

974
00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:59.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of trying to create a mechanic mechanical language that

975
00:44:59.480 --> 00:45:02.599
<v Speaker 1>makes there's a certain charm to it, but it doesn't

976
00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:05.519
<v Speaker 1>look real. Yeah. So yeah, it's that it's a thing

977
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:08.280
<v Speaker 1>of taking it in the real world, putting into these

978
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:11.960
<v Speaker 1>fictional things and using them to convince you that it's real. Well,

979
00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:14.000
<v Speaker 1>we did a kip Bash class and it was interesting

980
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:17.039
<v Speaker 1>because people thought we gave them some basic shapes model

981
00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:19.719
<v Speaker 1>kep parks and some people just blewed stuff all over it.

982
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:21.800
<v Speaker 1>And then Keith London was in charge of the Model

983
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:23.519
<v Speaker 1>Stop and said, let's do this. Let's give them all

984
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:26.360
<v Speaker 1>a camera, those camera and have them go out and

985
00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:30.840
<v Speaker 1>photographics the mechanical language. And that was such a great ideeah.

986
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:32.360
<v Speaker 1>And that was such a good thing to point them

987
00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:34.599
<v Speaker 1>towards because it gave them something go out in the

988
00:45:34.599 --> 00:45:37.400
<v Speaker 1>real world and photographs out of the garbage. You know,

989
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:41.519
<v Speaker 1>is that all the hydraulic cylinders, all that stuff, that's

990
00:45:41.559 --> 00:45:45.599
<v Speaker 1>mechanical language that's after So that was really interesting, you know,

991
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:48.519
<v Speaker 1>to try and kind of get that idea across. But

992
00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:51.280
<v Speaker 1>I love things like the falcon, all that stuff's on it.

993
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:52.880
<v Speaker 1>You don't know what it does, but it sure looks

994
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:53.960
<v Speaker 1>like it does something important.

995
00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:59.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you mentioned weathering there, and what interests me

996
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:03.639
<v Speaker 2>about that is that how much did you find that

997
00:46:03.639 --> 00:46:07.119
<v Speaker 2>that change between film and digital, like what the camera

998
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:11.039
<v Speaker 2>would sell to the audience as weathering. Did you have

999
00:46:11.079 --> 00:46:13.800
<v Speaker 2>to change those techniques when you moved from from film

1000
00:46:13.880 --> 00:46:15.239
<v Speaker 2>to digital.

1001
00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:18.599
<v Speaker 1>In terms of the projection medium. Yeah, it was terrifying

1002
00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:21.079
<v Speaker 1>because you know before for a Phantom Menace, that was

1003
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:24.079
<v Speaker 1>the first thing we shot digitally and you could, you know,

1004
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:26.519
<v Speaker 1>put a piece of black tape on what we are

1005
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:28.679
<v Speaker 1>rule of thumb was you know, unforcas try a little bit.

1006
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:31.480
<v Speaker 1>That's what film sees, plows your eye, and that's what TVCs,

1007
00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:34.199
<v Speaker 1>you know. And then digital came on the scene, like,

1008
00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:36.239
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, that piece of black tape is obviously

1009
00:46:36.280 --> 00:46:38.760
<v Speaker 1>a piece of black tape. And it was Yeah, there

1010
00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:41.559
<v Speaker 1>was a learning curve there for sure. Who adjusted that

1011
00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:44.000
<v Speaker 1>because it was very different, you know, fields seemed like

1012
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:47.679
<v Speaker 1>you could everything digital and you know the thing that

1013
00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:50.159
<v Speaker 1>at first it was really difficult for me doing the

1014
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:51.800
<v Speaker 1>computer graphics thing, and I don't know if I ever

1015
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:54.840
<v Speaker 1>got all that good at it. But we switched to

1016
00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:58.119
<v Speaker 1>a paint software called Mari, and Mari allowed you to

1017
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:01.800
<v Speaker 1>paint in layers of materials, and that was such a

1018
00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:04.119
<v Speaker 1>huge advantage. And I remember painting the y wing and

1019
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:08.360
<v Speaker 1>the ewing on Rogue one. It was fantastic because you

1020
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:10.239
<v Speaker 1>could go in and I could have a layer that

1021
00:47:10.360 --> 00:47:13.599
<v Speaker 1>was you know, rushed aluminum. I could have a layer

1022
00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:16.320
<v Speaker 1>that was called clay, which I used a rename is primer.

1023
00:47:16.599 --> 00:47:17.960
<v Speaker 1>Then I had a layer that was you know, to

1024
00:47:18.039 --> 00:47:20.119
<v Speaker 1>my gloss car paint, and I could sit there and

1025
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:23.559
<v Speaker 1>do scratches on the surface that exposed the metal, exposed

1026
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:25.000
<v Speaker 1>some of the primer, and then you had the car

1027
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:28.400
<v Speaker 1>paint on top of it, way better than doing it

1028
00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:31.519
<v Speaker 1>as a practical model. For me, I was like, this

1029
00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:35.119
<v Speaker 1>is amazing. I could do greasy handprints because there was

1030
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:36.559
<v Speaker 1>an oil material and all you have to do is

1031
00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:39.280
<v Speaker 1>go find a photograph of a fingerprint or handprint and

1032
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:41.639
<v Speaker 1>if it was black and white, whatever was white was

1033
00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:43.599
<v Speaker 1>that material. So you'd have the whole shit black and

1034
00:47:43.719 --> 00:47:46.320
<v Speaker 1>have these handprints on it. It's time to oil material

1035
00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:49.199
<v Speaker 1>and now you've got whaly fingerprints. I mean, it was easy,

1036
00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:52.760
<v Speaker 1>so it it was better than the real thing. So

1037
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:56.239
<v Speaker 1>that was really really cool. I love that. So it

1038
00:47:56.320 --> 00:47:58.199
<v Speaker 1>was too bad. That was right the time I left,

1039
00:47:58.639 --> 00:48:00.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, it was right when it got really and

1040
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:03.960
<v Speaker 1>I finally connected with them. Wow, this is amazing. You're out.

1041
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:09.719
<v Speaker 2>But then you've since come back making models. I mean, like,

1042
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:11.880
<v Speaker 2>talk to me about the Razor cres because it's sort

1043
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:16.599
<v Speaker 2>of you know, in the public eye and under scrutiny

1044
00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:19.239
<v Speaker 2>at the moment with the new film in Imax there.

1045
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:21.880
<v Speaker 2>But the Razorcrest started out for the TV series of course,

1046
00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:25.079
<v Speaker 2>The Mandadorian And didn't that correct me if I'm wrong,

1047
00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:27.039
<v Speaker 2>But didn't that start out as a three D printed

1048
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:32.800
<v Speaker 2>assembly and then it wasn't kind of like strong enough,

1049
00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:35.239
<v Speaker 2>so you had to sort of revert back to kind

1050
00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:37.360
<v Speaker 2>of original mold making techniques.

1051
00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:39.119
<v Speaker 1>And yet how the couple of things going on it

1052
00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:41.960
<v Speaker 1>was I think that the main body was like fifty

1053
00:48:42.039 --> 00:48:46.079
<v Speaker 1>two pieces, so fifty two prints, and they were all

1054
00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:48.559
<v Speaker 1>done fairly quickly, and they're all you know, build lines.

1055
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:50.920
<v Speaker 1>They're all done differently. These things have got built lines

1056
00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:53.599
<v Speaker 1>running in different directions all over it, and I'm going

1057
00:48:53.679 --> 00:48:56.320
<v Speaker 1>to skin it and aluminum. Every one of those built

1058
00:48:56.360 --> 00:48:58.679
<v Speaker 1>lines is going to read right through the aluminum, so

1059
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:01.000
<v Speaker 1>they can't be there. And so it was a question

1060
00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:03.840
<v Speaker 1>I had to put it all together, dem all the gaps,

1061
00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:06.719
<v Speaker 1>and then keep spraying at with sandable primer and standing

1062
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:09.960
<v Speaker 1>it to get rid of the build lines. And by

1063
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:11.960
<v Speaker 1>the time you get through doing all that, starting to

1064
00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:15.760
<v Speaker 1>lose detail. Things are starting to go away. And it

1065
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:18.039
<v Speaker 1>was just a byproduct of that being the process. And

1066
00:49:18.199 --> 00:49:20.440
<v Speaker 1>a three D print like that is not strong enough

1067
00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:23.440
<v Speaker 1>to take out on stage in my opinion, and you

1068
00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:25.480
<v Speaker 1>need to cut out mounta doors and things. You've got

1069
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:28.760
<v Speaker 1>to have doors that are basically invisible. You have left right, top, bottom,

1070
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:33.119
<v Speaker 1>front back typically, and the three D print you can't

1071
00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:35.639
<v Speaker 1>drill it. It would shatter, you know, And so you

1072
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:37.320
<v Speaker 1>can't use the material that was coming out of the hole.

1073
00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:38.960
<v Speaker 1>You can't cut it out and reuse that door. And

1074
00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:40.400
<v Speaker 1>then they were going to print them. I'm like, they

1075
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:43.239
<v Speaker 1>won't be flat. I guarantee they won't be flat. So

1076
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.800
<v Speaker 1>once it was all cleaned up, seamed and primed, then

1077
00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:48.280
<v Speaker 1>I made a big two part mold of it and

1078
00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:50.480
<v Speaker 1>I recast it into proxy fiberglass.

1079
00:50:08.679 --> 00:50:10.239
<v Speaker 2>Well, I hope you enjoy Part one of my conversation

1080
00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:12.679
<v Speaker 2>with John there. As I said, we got cut off midflow,

1081
00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:15.000
<v Speaker 2>which is frustrating but also a good sign. It means

1082
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.280
<v Speaker 2>there's plenty more to come. And Part two is being

1083
00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:19.360
<v Speaker 2>recorded in the next couple of weeks, and I'm looking

1084
00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:23.000
<v Speaker 2>forward to getting to know the Razor Crest build and

1085
00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:25.559
<v Speaker 2>all the proper detail behind that and the latest techniques

1086
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:27.880
<v Speaker 2>that he was using, along with all the techniques that

1087
00:50:27.880 --> 00:50:30.880
<v Speaker 2>he's learned over his career. Coming up on the podcast,

1088
00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:33.760
<v Speaker 2>I've got some great guests, including a composer a very

1089
00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:36.920
<v Speaker 2>very big film series if you like more of the

1090
00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:40.840
<v Speaker 2>first two anyway, I actually met him whilst working on

1091
00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:44.920
<v Speaker 2>my Joe Al's documentary. He's actually married to somebody that

1092
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:48.519
<v Speaker 2>was in Jaws too, who we interviewed. More details on

1093
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:50.760
<v Speaker 2>that later. Keep the support coming, I do need you.

1094
00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:53.119
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for joining me and I hope you can do

1095
00:50:53.159 --> 00:51:33.400
<v Speaker 2>so far. The next episode of the film Thementaries podcast

1096
00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:39.800
<v Speaker 1>We are Tingaway Media