Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed by the guests of Sasquatch
Speaker 1: Experience do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the host, sponsors,
Speaker 1: or affiliates of the Sasquatch Experience. As always, listener discretion
Speaker 1: is advised.
Speaker 2: We got someone or something growing around out here?
Speaker 3: Does a legend walk among us working in the forests
Speaker 3: of our world?
Speaker 4: Did you see what it was?
Speaker 5: Was it a person or an animal?
Speaker 2: Or I can't go off if I know as if
Speaker 2: my thunder light came on and I hear happened to
Speaker 2: Glenn and see the thing running across the yard a
Speaker 2: good fight man or something works like a man. I
Speaker 2: don't know what it was.
Speaker 6: For over fifteen years, we've talked with scientists, researchers, investigators,
Speaker 6: and witnesses trying to gain insight and proof around the
Speaker 6: existence of this mysterious entity.
Speaker 2: Jesus quiet ar heel, Hello, get somebody out here.
Speaker 4: What's going to announce?
Speaker 2: There's got to revention about six foot nine?
Speaker 4: I don't know, easy announce there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm working right away.
Speaker 7: Oh okay, hand on her yarn?
Speaker 2: Yeah, God, it's big.
Speaker 4: Okay, what's he doing in your yard? We're gonna do you.
Speaker 3: Join us as we continue into the investigation of the
Speaker 3: Sasquatch Experience. And well, well, good evening everyone, Welcome to
Speaker 3: the Sasquatch Experience. Sean Forker, James Baker, Vance Nesbitt, Matt Arner.
Speaker 3: No Henry May yet tonight, of course, as we are
Speaker 3: brought to you by the longest intro in Bigfoot podcasting
Speaker 3: right there on your screen, we got to shorten that up.
Speaker 4: Gentleman.
Speaker 3: It's been a long time, but we do have a
Speaker 3: great guest tonight. But before we bring our guests on
Speaker 3: the show, we did want to take a moment. A
Speaker 3: couple deaths in the realms of cryptozoology and upology. Christopher O'Brian,
Speaker 3: of course, the author of Stalking the Herd, researcher involved
Speaker 3: in a lot of cattle mutilation studies, passed away over
Speaker 3: the weekend. And of course Paul Halsey, you know, more
Speaker 3: acquainted with our good friend Henry May. I met Paul
Speaker 3: a couple occasions, but didn't quite have the you know,
Speaker 3: opportunity to build a friendship with Paul. Besides, you know,
Speaker 3: just a general passing acquaintance. But again, our condolences go
Speaker 3: out to Paul's family and friends. You never want to
Speaker 3: experience these things, and unfortunately it's that part of life
Speaker 3: that happens. But damn it always happens, especially around this
Speaker 3: time of year.
Speaker 6: It just a's a little deeper cut.
Speaker 3: But again, express our condolences out there. Was going to
Speaker 3: give Henry some time to talk and if he pumps on,
Speaker 3: maybe we'll do that a little later. Give him a
Speaker 3: chance to, you know, say some kind words about his
Speaker 3: friend James Baker back in the habit without rambling on
Speaker 3: too much. Goat, folks, we do have a great guest
Speaker 3: on the program tonight. Matt was kind enough to put
Speaker 3: this together. Matt, do you want to go ahead and
Speaker 3: give a little intro to our guest of the program?
Speaker 5: Well, absolutely, if anyone in the big thimming world is
Speaker 5: involved in in gets in the coalition group, it is
Speaker 5: a fantastic, fantastic group that was put together by our
Speaker 5: guest Steven. Really it gives that critical thinking that is
Speaker 5: much needed UH for UH for this type of research
Speaker 5: and and UH in interest. So UH kudos for putting
Speaker 5: that together, for putting together a very well blended UH
Speaker 5: audience and in group members who probably have the best UH.
Speaker 5: I guess we could say arguments, but in a sometimes
Speaker 5: in a more pleasant manner, you know, across the internet.
Speaker 5: So uh, definitely kudos to to you Steven and uh
Speaker 5: and again you know, we thank you for being on
Speaker 5: the show.
Speaker 3: It could be a little lag there, Matt, I believe you. Yep, oh, yep,
Speaker 3: he popped back.
Speaker 5: There we go, there he goes.
Speaker 4: We got Mario. I'm looking for the chat room, but
Speaker 4: it's disconnected me from the talk here.
Speaker 8: What happened to me?
Speaker 4: Have choice one or the other.
Speaker 3: We'll read the questions to me as they come in. Stephen,
Speaker 3: don't worry. We'll make you.
Speaker 4: I'm sitting here, yeah, looking at you guys, not the
Speaker 4: chat room. So any any trolls that come in, I
Speaker 4: hope you will squash them. Warning.
Speaker 3: We got your back, buddy, We got Stephen. I uh,
Speaker 3: we've been acquainted. I don't know if we've ever actually
Speaker 3: had conversation besides maybe just a couple of sentences on
Speaker 3: the internet through the years. Uh, that happens from time
Speaker 3: to time, right, you kind of run parallel, maybe don't
Speaker 3: run into each other. But we've seen some of the
Speaker 3: craziness over the years and the fighting, the stupidity that
Speaker 3: runs rampant, the hoaxes that get bent out of control
Speaker 3: and and and run rampant over the internet. You've been
Speaker 3: there since before where the internet was really a thing.
Speaker 3: So why don't you tell us your origin? How did
Speaker 3: you get involved in bigfoot? And why would then you
Speaker 3: start a coalition group on Facebook?
Speaker 4: That's the interesting thing, because all my life I was
Speaker 4: really pro bag foot, believing in bigfoot, fascinated by bigfoot
Speaker 4: and aliens and other things like that too, you know.
Speaker 4: But the longer I stayed involved in these fields of study,
Speaker 4: the more I was forced by the discourse to take
Speaker 4: a skeptical position, you know. And I've been pushed to
Speaker 4: that degree where people think I'm a a troll, a
Speaker 4: non believing troll who has been lurking in the bigfoot
Speaker 4: community trying to sabotage it somehow. But the fucking sorry,
Speaker 4: the fact is that I don't know if I can
Speaker 4: use my normal language here at the fact is that
Speaker 4: I've always been very pro research and pro rational methodology
Speaker 4: and pro science. So if that conflicts with your looney
Speaker 4: woo woo belief systems, then well good. I mean, I'm
Speaker 4: glad it does, but that doesn't make me a troll,
Speaker 4: someone who's been his whole wife thinking about Bigfoot. Okay,
Speaker 4: so I don't know who you people out there are
Speaker 4: who are lurking in all the Bigfoot groups now saying
Speaker 4: things like oh, they're just non never believer in trolls.
Speaker 4: So I called me here to harass us. And you
Speaker 4: know where were you twenty years ago? Person? You watched
Speaker 4: Expedition Bigfoot and got inspired by Maria Mayor or whatever.
Speaker 4: I mean, Come on, this is all a lonely a
Speaker 4: TV show, and you know before that, at least Finding
Speaker 4: Bigfoot had real Bigfoot researchers on it, like Bobo and Cliff.
Speaker 4: I mean, say what you like about Matt or for Day,
Speaker 4: but you know I know those guys from being in
Speaker 4: the woods with them. And that's the real Bigfoot community
Speaker 4: right there, is looking looking for Bigfoot at Bluff Creek.
Speaker 4: That's how I grew into it, you know, It's how
Speaker 4: I got absorbed into it as an adult, and I'm
Speaker 4: happy that I was.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 4: It was, I will say, past tense now a very
Speaker 4: good experience to add in my life.
Speaker 3: I think you make a really good distinction there about
Speaker 3: about your I call it belief system. It's not really
Speaker 3: a belief system. But you know, there's nothing wrong with
Speaker 3: believing yet taking that skeptical approach to everything that's put
Speaker 3: at you, Steven. If we didn't do that, everything that
Speaker 3: came across the internet would be accepted as Bigfoot evidence
Speaker 3: kind of almost like it is today by most people.
Speaker 3: But to those that have been around for a long time,
Speaker 3: I still think there's that standard of what we could
Speaker 3: we We used to call it critical thinking, now it's
Speaker 3: called you call it. You know, you get accused of
Speaker 3: being a troll. No, we just have a higher standard
Speaker 3: of what evidence is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like John Green, he's a troll too, I guess,
Speaker 4: right right, yeah, and Forne Forne to Hinden, he was
Speaker 4: definitely a troll. I mean, come on, I mean, these
Speaker 4: are the fundamental principles upon which modern some North American
Speaker 4: big footery was founded. Uh, be rational, you know, seek
Speaker 4: a scientific approach, you can find it to whatever is
Speaker 4: being rewarded. And you know, it's been a constant war
Speaker 4: with the wu Wus ever since then. The wu Wu
Speaker 4: is a is a spirituality thing that is really separate
Speaker 4: from Bigfoot and exists exists in American culture. Like regionally,
Speaker 4: you'll go to places, and they'll have mysterious haunted places
Speaker 4: or places where monsters have been seen or aliens have
Speaker 4: landed or whatever the hell it is. Right, everyone's got
Speaker 4: their own regional witch or demon or ghost or goblin,
Speaker 4: and that I mean combine that with like Native American
Speaker 4: spiritual roots and a lot of other you know, European superstitions,
Speaker 4: and you've got a fertile cultivation ground for all manner
Speaker 4: of mysterious blogoney to you know, sprout up everywhere. And
Speaker 4: that's what's been happening.
Speaker 3: Why do I think it's so attractive? Why do you
Speaker 3: think it's Why do you think that's become the more commonplace?
Speaker 3: Do you think it's because folks really they can't come
Speaker 3: up with an explanation for Bigfoot, so they just throw
Speaker 3: it all into a popo re and say, oh, this
Speaker 3: is really Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well we you know, in the in the Coalition group,
Speaker 4: we've warned people about these things for the whole time
Speaker 4: we've existed. And the group was founded in two thousand
Speaker 4: and eleven. You know, it's been thirteen years of fighting
Speaker 4: this battle. And you know, it started fighting the wu Wuos.
Speaker 4: It started by being in groups where we thought we
Speaker 4: were talking about Bigfoot. The next thing we knew, we're
Speaker 4: talking about stick structures and glyphs on the ground and
Speaker 4: secret languages being spoken, and before you know it, it's
Speaker 4: mind speak and it's aliens. You know, you can start
Speaker 4: listening to people like Carlo Williams or Tom can Troll
Speaker 4: or Igor Burtsev. Even the supposed scientists is actually not
Speaker 4: a scientist. But you know, people like Kwoni Laps right as.
Speaker 4: These people were the looney fringe of the day back then,
Speaker 4: and they've all sort of faded away, and there's been
Speaker 4: a whole new generational sweep taking over, so that people
Speaker 4: like me are actually kind of bewildered, like where did
Speaker 4: all these new people come from? Like it used to
Speaker 4: be like I could just look at what's happening for
Speaker 4: the week and I'd say, oh, look there's a Billy
Speaker 4: Willard show on or whatever. Right, Oh look they're Sean
Speaker 4: Forker's show, and I'd listen to that. You'd have somebody
Speaker 4: talking like who knew what the heck they were talking about?
Speaker 4: Like John Green or somebody was on there. And now
Speaker 4: it's like who are these people? You know, they come
Speaker 4: out of nowhere, they buy a plot of land, and
Speaker 4: they're like suddenly finding they put tracks on it. You know,
Speaker 4: I'm just speaking of one guy. I don't want to
Speaker 4: name him, but like he was a little suspicious. He's
Speaker 4: a very smart guy, starts a podcast, buy some land.
Speaker 4: All of a sudden, now he's got big foot tracks
Speaker 4: on his land. That is to me very suspicious. But
Speaker 4: I mean, at least he's taking a fairly rational approach, right,
Speaker 4: So I'm not one to rule that out or anything,
Speaker 4: even like the stuff that Tom Powell proposes, like quasi
Speaker 4: mystical stuff, because I mean, we're weird creatures ourselves, the
Speaker 4: human race, our species is weird, and we are naturally
Speaker 4: inclined to see things in terms of our own weirdness, right,
Speaker 4: So like when there's something happening out of the woods,
Speaker 4: we don't understand it, We're going to see a projection
Speaker 4: of ourselves. Like that is a lot of what bigfoot is.
Speaker 4: It is clearly clearly a lot of it anyway, is
Speaker 4: obviously psychological or mystical, philosophical, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 4: It's definitely not just an animal in that sense. And
Speaker 4: like when when you have science supposedly failing like it
Speaker 4: did with the Ketchum study, which kept us all strung long,
Speaker 4: like how many years, like seven years. It's still going
Speaker 4: on now that uh, you know, we predicted Ketchum would fail,
Speaker 4: and we showed how she was failing all along the way,
Speaker 4: and we had real scientists supporting our view on this
Speaker 4: that he's doing false forms of DNA study. And we
Speaker 4: knew what was going to happen after that is the
Speaker 4: Wu is going to be broken free and they're gonna
Speaker 4: like run rampant as I mean, pretty much exactly what
Speaker 4: they did. So you even have people like these wu
Speaker 4: Wu people from the past being resuscitated, you know, brought
Speaker 4: back into the brought back into the field after they'd
Speaker 4: already been chased away. You know, he's still got like M. K.
Speaker 4: Davis to people like him, right.
Speaker 3: That every so often that massacre theory comes back.
Speaker 4: I can't I can't believe it. I mean, I started
Speaker 4: getting involved in the war in two thousand and eight
Speaker 4: when I when I heard about the massacre theory from
Speaker 4: Henry Maine, and I'm like, I can't believe this. And
Speaker 4: I mean I've spoken with Henry over the years, and
Speaker 4: I mean it's astonishing how it's still still goes on
Speaker 4: no matter how much ever we put into it. We've
Speaker 4: got we've got Bill Miller presenting the full film from
Speaker 4: John Green that was supposedly the massacre. And you can
Speaker 4: see blue water running through the creek. It's not blood.
Speaker 4: And you know, and you know, once you think you've
Speaker 4: got m. Davis cornered, he quits and retires. Like I've
Speaker 4: got him to retire at least twice on my own
Speaker 4: once alive on a radio show, The big Foot Tonight Show,
Speaker 4: drove him into retirement, and he just comes right back,
Speaker 4: come back, you can't resist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, they think with that new audience, they get
Speaker 3: a whole new generation of, like you said, folks that
Speaker 3: want to you know.
Speaker 1: Buy into that.
Speaker 3: And and the problem is they just don't go back
Speaker 3: into the homework. They don't go far enough into the
Speaker 3: history and and pick up on you know, the point Stephen,
Speaker 3: that you made or other folks have made, or stuff
Speaker 3: that's actually just in the film that there's nothing to interpret.
Speaker 3: It's there, you know, like the film is the film.
Speaker 3: There's no hidden artifacts or messaging or secrets in it.
Speaker 7: It's it's rare.
Speaker 4: But yeah, the Patterson's film, you.
Speaker 3: Mean, yeah, I mean there's nothing there besides what's showing
Speaker 3: on the on the on the screen.
Speaker 4: Not to mention though, what's showing on the screen and
Speaker 4: are optical illusions. You know, when we went to try
Speaker 4: to find the film site, I was amazed. In two thousand, uh,
Speaker 4: two thousand and one, I couldn't find it. Two thousand
Speaker 4: and seven I went to then I went to the
Speaker 4: conference with these guys. They took me down there and
Speaker 4: they pointed out to me where the film site was supposedly,
Speaker 4: and uh, that was just one of the theories. It
Speaker 4: turned out. After the two thousand and three symposium in
Speaker 4: Willow Creek, they all went up there and nobody could
Speaker 4: pinpoint where the film slight even was. You know. M. K.
Speaker 4: Davis's friend walked downstream and found a certain spot, and
Speaker 4: other people walked upstream and that I still can't see it.
Speaker 4: John Green was there, he couldn't identify it. And Jim Learn.
Speaker 4: I mean, these guys, these guys, none of them, I mean,
Speaker 4: all that collected knowledge al Odson was involved. No one
Speaker 4: could pinpoint where it was. And so when we went
Speaker 4: walking along we had to realize that the view of
Speaker 4: the film is a plane on a two dimensional flat plane, right,
Speaker 4: and you're looking at a bunch of information that has
Speaker 4: to be sorted out like triggerometrically, you know, it has
Speaker 4: to be put into a three dimensional version of the
Speaker 4: in your mind just to be able to see where
Speaker 4: the film site even is. Because those trees in the back,
Speaker 4: they are like three hundred feet away from the camera.
Speaker 4: You know, there is a big plane. And if you
Speaker 4: don't have access to the information like we did with
Speaker 4: the Christopher Murphy's book, the means the Sasquatches what we had.
Speaker 4: And there's a view from above the film site taken
Speaker 4: by Renading Inden in nineteen seventy one that shows all
Speaker 4: the stumps and everything that was there then after the
Speaker 4: film was shot. Now it's all grown back so that
Speaker 4: all you see is a you see the cover of
Speaker 4: our book, the Bluff Greek Project book, that's the title.
Speaker 4: You'll see a drone footage taken by our guy Rowdy
Speaker 4: Kelly of the film site, and we know it's the
Speaker 4: film site. But what you what all you're seeing is
Speaker 4: is an outline of trees grown back on the sand bar,
Speaker 4: you know, and you can see the creek, the shape
Speaker 4: of the creek, and it all matches up with the
Speaker 4: story told by Bob Gimlins and everything else, But even
Speaker 4: then you have to get down on the ground. When
Speaker 4: Bob Gillen was there, he didn't even identify the big Tree.
Speaker 4: In twenty eleven, they just he identified where he thought
Speaker 4: they first were shooting the film, and then we were
Speaker 4: doing our survey of the site, and we surveyed every
Speaker 4: inch of that whole sand bar the size of a
Speaker 4: square football field, and we were able to show exactly
Speaker 4: where the big Tree was. I mean, I couldn't believe
Speaker 4: when I first saw the big Tree, it like it
Speaker 4: was like hidden in the background, and it sort of
Speaker 4: just emerged out, like, oh my god, there it is,
Speaker 4: you know, like sitting right next to it, where the
Speaker 4: other trees that were supposed to be there. And we
Speaker 4: had had actually we had arguments amongst ourselves right in
Speaker 4: front of those trees just a few weeks earlier. We
Speaker 4: had been there arguing about it, and our guy Ian
Speaker 4: had said, this can't be the place. It just can't
Speaker 4: be the place. And he went walking off and started
Speaker 4: playing with his GPS and taking readings all around the
Speaker 4: area where me and Robert sat there, and said, well,
Speaker 4: I guess I have to do the survey, you know,
Speaker 4: And when we did that survey, we were able to
Speaker 4: look at it three dimensionally and see that all those
Speaker 4: stumps and the log piles and the old trees were
Speaker 4: still there. So at that point we had stable anchors
Speaker 4: that could not be denied, and they still can't be denied.
Speaker 4: We've added confirmed by Bill Munz and just about anybody
Speaker 4: who's got a brain who's been there will agree with
Speaker 4: our position. It's like scientifically proven. But MK Davis, he's
Speaker 4: still going on and on about how we are the debutantes,
Speaker 4: Like we just came along and said, oh no, that's
Speaker 4: not the real film site, and he, on the other hand,
Speaker 4: has no evidence, is not a single bit of evidence
Speaker 4: that is related to the current site compared to the
Speaker 4: site back then.
Speaker 3: Well, I have to tell you, you guys have put
Speaker 3: together quite the tone on the research you did to
Speaker 3: you know, into the film site.
Speaker 6: Low yeah, pages.
Speaker 4: I hope you guys have read it and enjoyed it.
Speaker 4: We tried to make it about something more than just ourselves,
Speaker 4: you know, right, because it's really our story, like our
Speaker 4: adventure that we took to go out and into the
Speaker 4: world and to seek the answer to this great mystery,
Speaker 4: like where is the film site? You know, we didn't
Speaker 4: even have to propose the real hypothesis, which is Bigfoot
Speaker 4: exists or not. You know, we just said, where's the
Speaker 4: film site? And we were able to demonstrate a fact
Speaker 4: in the natural real world that cannot be denied. And
Speaker 4: it's just it's just beyond laughable that there's still people
Speaker 4: who are trying to deny it. Mhm.
Speaker 3: Well, you know what's funny is that, you know, even
Speaker 3: for the search for the Big Fellow himself, the difficulty
Speaker 3: in finding the film site was its own challenge.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's not like you could just go and prove it,
Speaker 3: you know. You guys put the work in the accuracy
Speaker 3: to ensure that this is where I'm at, This is
Speaker 3: where we can validate these landmarks to prove this is
Speaker 3: the film site.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, how can you deny How can you
Speaker 4: deny a set of stumps that are in the perfect
Speaker 4: matching alignment with the photographs from the film itself and
Speaker 4: afterwards by known researchers that have been there, You can't.
Speaker 4: And we've done trigonometry, you know, we had our our
Speaker 4: fellow Jamie Wayne, joined the group and did the trigonometry,
Speaker 4: with the survey and with the photography, and I mean
Speaker 4: it showed that it's beyond doubt, you know. I mean
Speaker 4: Bill Mant spent two days there with us, serving and
Speaker 4: working on the site. Thing. There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 4: So who is this guy? Mk? Davis? He doesn't even
Speaker 4: go to the place that we m that we talked about.
Speaker 4: He gets down there and he immediately has downstream to
Speaker 4: his own special place where he he you know, finds
Speaker 4: like bones in the rocks and tries to claim that
Speaker 4: it's a bigfoot bone.
Speaker 3: Oh boy, Mac, go ahead, did you have a question
Speaker 3: there or a baker?
Speaker 9: Well, first, I want to thank you.
Speaker 8: I wanted to clap through most of your conversation here
Speaker 8: because you you pretty much say what I do, except
Speaker 8: you read a book.
Speaker 9: And the fact is is because.
Speaker 8: I look at it, I look at all the I
Speaker 8: enjoy the lore, but I look at.
Speaker 9: It from a scientific point.
Speaker 8: Of view, and a lot of people get mad about that,
Speaker 8: like you don't believe it or whatever. I have never
Speaker 8: seen anything personally.
Speaker 9: But I've seen photos. I've seen things.
Speaker 8: Plus I've listened to a lot of people that are
Speaker 8: really smart and aren't taken easy by a stupid you know, rumor,
Speaker 8: but you make a good you make valid points. So
Speaker 8: a lot of this newer stuff is you know, I
Speaker 8: always call it like Columbuses. They discovered bigfoot, so everything
Speaker 8: they see must be what it has to be, and
Speaker 8: there's no arguing with them. And those people I just
Speaker 8: kind of walk away and go over and have a
Speaker 8: taco or something or go, you know, I just ignore
Speaker 8: them and they get mad or because they're like, why
Speaker 8: aren't you interacting? Like because you have nothing of value
Speaker 8: to the conversation, Okay, because you don't want to hear
Speaker 8: a perspective.
Speaker 4: On the other side.
Speaker 8: Kind of how I handle politics too. But it's a
Speaker 8: weird thing. But you know, in general, though, I want
Speaker 8: to thank you for saying the things you say, because
Speaker 8: you are bringing up valid points that we have always
Speaker 8: and Sean Sean will admit because he's been with me,
Speaker 8: how long is I always ask the utterly stupid questions
Speaker 8: of where other people are standing there going don't you
Speaker 8: just believe them? No, it's like asking what does God
Speaker 8: need with the starship? Okay, you ask If you ask
Speaker 8: me for some stupid request, I'm gonna ask why and
Speaker 8: why why?
Speaker 3: You know you know why is God angry?
Speaker 4: Well, you have to look at your first principles. What
Speaker 4: are you starting with? Now? If you're starting with a
Speaker 4: belief in God and angels and devils and demons and
Speaker 4: goblins in the woods and stuff like that, then of
Speaker 4: course you're gonna also see bigfoot as something weird. But
Speaker 4: I mean, if you're a naturalist, you start with what
Speaker 4: can be established empirically and rationally, and you know, then
Speaker 4: they'll say, well, okay, don't be so closed minded. Well
Speaker 4: I'm not closed minded. I mean I'm an rational agnostic.
Speaker 4: I don't believe that we know everything, so you can't
Speaker 4: call me closed minded. I'm actually saying, very specifically to
Speaker 4: your face, I'm an agnostic. That means I'm open minded.
Speaker 4: That means I'm considering, with curiosity and determination, what is
Speaker 4: being presented to us by reality. And I know for
Speaker 4: a fact, by my own personal experience, is that there's
Speaker 4: way more to reality than what we see with our
Speaker 4: eyes or with our science even, you know, but we
Speaker 4: have to progress based upon evidence. You can't just say,
Speaker 4: well because I had a dream where I talked with
Speaker 4: Sasquatch and Sasquatch was my teacher. I mean he taught
Speaker 4: me about the spiritual world they came from. I mean,
Speaker 4: that doesn't make it real. Okay. You know, Matthew Johnson
Speaker 4: or whatever. You are a psychologist PhD. You don't have
Speaker 4: the right to go around acting like people should listen
Speaker 4: to you. You know, you've got the same obligation that
Speaker 4: we all do as part of basically the social contract,
Speaker 4: which is to establish what is real amongst ourselves. You know,
Speaker 4: and we can say the universe is intelligible. We can
Speaker 4: learn about things that are in the universe and try
Speaker 4: to understand them objectively, and then if there's knowledge to
Speaker 4: be had, that should be able to be extracted and
Speaker 4: presented to other human beings and established as real or false.
Speaker 4: You know, like, these are basic principles of science. And
Speaker 4: science is not about the mainstream science. It's not about
Speaker 4: the status quo. I mean, there may be scientists who
Speaker 4: are trying to play the game of getting a grant
Speaker 4: or whatever, or to control the direction of a field
Speaker 4: of the department or whatever. But the truth is you
Speaker 4: need to do this every step of the way. When
Speaker 4: you're practicing science or any other form of inquiry. You
Speaker 4: have to be able to try to stay objective of rational. Otherwise,
Speaker 4: what are you doing? You might as well just write
Speaker 4: poetry or or start a religion or something.
Speaker 3: Saspros.
Speaker 4: That's what these other people are doing.
Speaker 9: I think that's one of the key things is though,
Speaker 9: is the biggest problem that happens is a lot of
Speaker 9: people get it in for the research and I'm not
Speaker 9: making I'm not making fun of people on Discovery Channel.
Speaker 8: I'm not fun of the people that are making the
Speaker 8: TV shows because I get it. You you have a
Speaker 8: passion for a thing, you have a knowledge for a thing,
Speaker 8: and then somebody says you can get a paycheck, you
Speaker 8: start wavering a little bit, like hey, for production value,
Speaker 8: Mary's gonna see the third Sasquats this week because she's
Speaker 8: got a tight shirt and knows how to screen.
Speaker 4: Okay, And that's what says.
Speaker 8: I mean, like I loved Mountain Monsters, and like, but
Speaker 8: you knew if you were really watched Mountain Monsters from
Speaker 8: the beginning they were like, we're just out there having fun.
Speaker 8: If you actually nine what we're putting in here, you directly.
Speaker 8: But then if you watch shows like Expedition with Josh
Speaker 8: Gates and some of that he puts he puts a
Speaker 8: lot of real knowledge in it. But you can tell
Speaker 8: that at the end of the day, a lot of
Speaker 8: that's production value, you know, and I think a lot
Speaker 8: of it.
Speaker 4: It's like on a spectrum of credibility that I would
Speaker 4: say that anything on television is not fully credible. But
Speaker 4: at the same time, I know, having spent all those
Speaker 4: years with Bobo and Cliff, and you know, talking with
Speaker 4: the other people among the Finding Bigfoot crew and producers,
Speaker 4: and they would call me up every year and ask
Speaker 4: me for advice, and I'd give it to him. You know,
Speaker 4: sitting there in my perch and in Willo Creek, I
Speaker 4: could see everything happening right like in the mecca of
Speaker 4: the world of Bigfoot, and I could tell you that
Speaker 4: there are there was a lot of concern in that
Speaker 4: show to try to keep it real right, and especially
Speaker 4: among the stars of the show, I mean especially Matt,
Speaker 4: I mean well especially Cliff and Bobo. For sure. Absolutely
Speaker 4: they are both people of high integrity and they would
Speaker 4: not sell out and they give him the chance, they
Speaker 4: would still fight to the death to be true and
Speaker 4: honest and real. And that's where it's different with other
Speaker 4: shows like Expedition Bigfoot, which is fake from day one
Speaker 4: absolutely fake. I mean Bryce, I know Bryce from being
Speaker 4: in a movie with him with Bob ed Goldwaye. He
Speaker 4: is really sincerely interested in Bigfoot. But I don't think
Speaker 4: he's really a researcher. He's playing the researcher on the show.
Speaker 4: He's an actor, and he would probably be the first
Speaker 4: one to tell you that if you asked him in private.
Speaker 4: But Russell Acord, I don't know where that guy came from.
Speaker 4: But he, you know, claims to have been a research
Speaker 4: over like forty fifty years or whatever. And I never
Speaker 4: heard of him. I mean I never heard of him
Speaker 4: and never heard anything from him because he wrote some
Speaker 4: fiction book.
Speaker 3: And we have that problem with the revisionist history of
Speaker 3: people creating their own you know, for those of us
Speaker 3: that have been here since the early two thousands, where
Speaker 3: the hell did you come from?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you were? If you were so much a part
Speaker 4: of the Bigfoot research, I would have known about you,
Speaker 4: because when I first got involved, I was I was
Speaker 4: very conscious of trying to know who everyone was and
Speaker 4: to figure out where they were all coming from. And
Speaker 4: it was a limited few of people, like you know,
Speaker 4: there were a few hundred of us basically.
Speaker 3: Yeah, now, there's so much truth of that, and it
Speaker 3: has grown to the point where, uh, you know, probably
Speaker 3: more innumerable than it used to be. But there's still
Speaker 3: a difference between the enthusiasts and the researchers. Though sadly,
Speaker 3: I think a lot of the researchers Steven have just
Speaker 3: now said, you know what, fuck it, I'm you know,
Speaker 3: I'm going to go over here, I'm going to go fishing,
Speaker 3: and when everybody else goes away, I'll come back.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. I've seen a few of them come back,
Speaker 4: like Billy Willard recently. That's why I mentioned him. I
Speaker 4: was on his show recently. But they used to be
Speaker 4: these were the guys that did the shows every week,
Speaker 4: and I mean a lot of us have moved on
Speaker 4: or died. I've he sadly, before you realize that twenty
Speaker 4: years has gone by and there's been it's been such
Speaker 4: an engaging process that, you know, I was so involved
Speaker 4: and living right in the middle of it, I could
Speaker 4: not escape it. It was a daily thing. I saw
Speaker 4: big but every day, you know, driving down the street
Speaker 4: of Willow Creek, you see one, two, three, four, five, six,
Speaker 4: seven bigfoot statues or signs or whatever.
Speaker 3: Oh Okay, yeah, he's got statues. We got to take
Speaker 3: a quick break here.
Speaker 7: Guys.
Speaker 3: We'll be back in about six minutes, so go ahead
Speaker 3: and take care of what you need to. Folks. You're
Speaker 3: listening to the Sasquatch Experience Sean Palker, Vance and as
Speaker 3: It Matt Arner, James Baker and our guest Stephen Stroyford
Speaker 3: will be right right after this as soon as I
Speaker 3: find Vance's button. I mean, that sounded bad.
Speaker 7: We'll be back.
Speaker 3: Oh boy, steam a symbol.
Speaker 10: Thanks. That is all about overeating. I mean one of
Speaker 10: the main dishes is actually called stuffing. Stuffing, what names
Speaker 10: that they turned down? Cram it in, eat till you
Speaker 10: can't breathe? Am I the only one that doesn't feel
Speaker 10: comfortable with the fact stuffing is cooked inside a dead animal.
Speaker 10: Shove a loaf of bread up there, delicious?
Speaker 1: Ah, yes, but see I prefer craym berry at in sauce. Well,
Speaker 1: happy Monday night to you on this triple leave to
Speaker 1: the Thanksgiving where turkeys are the creature of the day apparently.
Speaker 1: But and first I need to apologize for the nasal
Speaker 1: ees because yes, it's that time of year where the
Speaker 1: head colds are you know, transporting from person to person.
Speaker 1: For every doorknob you touch, you're at risk. But anyway,
Speaker 1: A Peoria, Illinois truck driver transporting mail for the US
Speaker 1: Postal Service in a twenty five twenty four foot box
Speaker 1: truck in rural central Illinois reported seeing a huge creature
Speaker 1: alongside the road, believed to be Bigfoot, while completing his
Speaker 1: route back on October fifth of this year. He was
Speaker 1: interviewed by Bigfoot investigators, who labeled it as it was
Speaker 1: an official sighting of the mysterious massive creature also popularly
Speaker 1: known as sasquatch or Skunkcape. Now we don't have Skunkcape
Speaker 1: in central Illinois, and there's journalism for you. Highlighted. Troubled
Speaker 1: by what he saw, truck driver Gary Rutherford Junior looked
Speaker 1: for bigfoot research online and found a community message board
Speaker 1: and posted his encounter. Bigfoot researchers and investigators found him
Speaker 1: from that report, and now his tale is part of
Speaker 1: a viral video on TikTok that has three hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty thousand views and more than eight hundred in thirty
Speaker 1: comments in less than twenty four hours. The information from
Speaker 1: the video came via a post from the BFROS Matt Moneymaker.
Speaker 1: Now Rutherford is quoted as saying, I'm not calling it
Speaker 1: a bigfoot. The investigators have concluded that's what it was,
Speaker 1: and I can't accept that. Rutherifer said. All I know
Speaker 1: is it scared the absolute hell out of me, and
Speaker 1: I can't get it out of my mind. I thought
Speaker 1: about it for days and felt like I needed to
Speaker 1: tell someone or report it, and that's how I ended
Speaker 1: up online. Now Rutherford Junior continued on by stating, on
Speaker 1: October fifth, I was maybe three quarters of a mile
Speaker 1: into Route nine, and I had my low beings on,
Speaker 1: still fairly dark out at six am when I saw it.
Speaker 1: I didn't process this thing until I was right up
Speaker 1: on it. I did a double take. It was standing
Speaker 1: on two legs with brown fur. I drove past it
Speaker 1: in about five seconds. In that moment, it locked eyes
Speaker 1: with me, orange yellowish glowing eyes, and I realized it
Speaker 1: was eye to eye even though I was sitting high
Speaker 1: up in a twenty four foot box truck, so I
Speaker 1: estimated the thing to be at least eight feet tall.
Speaker 2: I was just.
Speaker 1: Stunned trying to figure out what I just saw. He
Speaker 1: arrived in Canton to offload his mail shaken. He told
Speaker 1: employees there about it, and later on he told his
Speaker 1: family members he did go back in daylight to look
Speaker 1: at the area, hoping to find footprints, but unfortunately it
Speaker 1: was heavily lined with grass. When we come back, put
Speaker 1: your parkson, your mittens, on your tups, and get bundled
Speaker 1: up because we're going to go into January.
Speaker 8: You're listening to the big foot bullhorn right here on
Speaker 8: the Sasquatch Experience.
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Speaker 1: to the squatchfield site on the interweb that has it all,
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Speaker 1: again Got Knockers dot o RG. Well, thank you Ted Man.
Speaker 1: Like I said prior to that break, get your parkison,
Speaker 1: because this is going to be one of the first
Speaker 1: Bigfoot events of twenty twenty five exactly. It'll be Friday
Speaker 1: and Saturday, January twenty fourth and twenty fifth of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five and its squatch Fest in Longview, Washington. It
Speaker 1: is an annual celebration dedicated to all things Bigfoot. Held
Speaker 1: in the picturesque city of Longview, nestled in the lush
Speaker 1: greenery of Washington State, This festival brings together enthusiasts, researchers,
Speaker 1: and curious visitors alike to revel in the mystery of
Speaker 1: the legend dairy creature. At Squatchfest, you can expect a
Speaker 1: range of activities and attractions designed to entertain and educate
Speaker 1: attendees about Bigfoot and its cultural significance from expert speakers
Speaker 1: sharing their latest research. The address is nineteen hundred seventh
Speaker 1: Avenue in Longview, Washington. Thanks again for listening to this edition.
Speaker 1: Another big footbullhorn right here on a Sasquatch experience and
Speaker 1: as a turkey always says.
Speaker 7: Until we meet again, keep your.
Speaker 3: Toe in the mind, mind, and welcome back everybody Sasquatch experience.
Speaker 3: Sean Forker, Vance Nes But, Matt Arnoer, James Baker, and
Speaker 3: our guest tonight, mister Steven Stroyford Stephen. Before we were
Speaker 3: on the break, I almost forgot we were talking about Vance.
Speaker 3: Look what you did to me.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I do my best, and I do my best.
Speaker 3: Go ahead, Vance, you chime in here and get some
Speaker 3: good questions going on.
Speaker 7: Well, you know, I'm kind of I'm very intrigued on
Speaker 7: the skepticism in which you have brought, Stephen, and I
Speaker 7: greatly appreciate it because I spend a lot of my time.
Speaker 7: I'll look at a video, I'll look at testimony, and
Speaker 7: I think I take it from the same perspective that
Speaker 7: you do. I don't buy all of it, but I'm
Speaker 7: still intrigued by it, and I want to know what
Speaker 7: is the absolute truth? And it's so hard to get
Speaker 7: to that absolute truth? And what's your take on that?
Speaker 7: How do you get to the absolute truth?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, I don't think we ever do really, so
Speaker 4: as human beings, we're a species stuck on a planet
Speaker 4: in a bit of the galaxy spinning around through space.
Speaker 4: How are we going to know everything?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 4: We don't know. We're just beginning to know. If you
Speaker 4: think about it, how ancient is the universe and yet
Speaker 4: how young we are. I mean, we're studying our own origins, right,
Speaker 4: And we look at creatures like the Neanderthals and the
Speaker 4: Denisovans and the Fluoresce Hobbits, and we're like discovering new
Speaker 4: things every day. And these are things that have existed
Speaker 4: within reasonable time frames of modern history, right like uh
Speaker 4: And with the big Footing inquiry, of course, there is
Speaker 4: always the assumption that maybe I'm not an assumption, but
Speaker 4: the feeling that maybe something still lives from our ancient
Speaker 4: past that we just never fully extirpated and held before
Speaker 4: the world as an extinct, dead uh species, or even
Speaker 4: something I mean, frankly, that we ever discovered in the
Speaker 4: first place. We're looking at Denisovans. They are they're known
Speaker 4: to be human. We've bred with them, We're part Denisovans,
Speaker 4: We're part of the Enderthal. These species never went extinct,
Speaker 4: they just emerged with us, right, I mean in a
Speaker 4: certain way, they we lost that that form of human
Speaker 4: uh life, but we have continued to carry its genes
Speaker 4: with us. Now that that's mysterious enough right there, And
Speaker 4: I don't I don't need to talk about spaceships and uh,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm having sex with a new bile ancient one.
Speaker 4: Bigfoot emails in my dreams while I'm camping, like like
Speaker 4: you can read about in the Laps writis book Keeone book.
Speaker 4: I mean, there's always been science fiction and weird stuff
Speaker 4: because we don't understand reality. So what do we come up?
Speaker 4: We come with stories that help us understand them. And
Speaker 4: the most powerful stories are the mythological.
Speaker 7: Ones, and that's very true power myth. I guess I
Speaker 7: want to answer the question then, for the amount of
Speaker 7: time that you have spent looking into this field of research,
Speaker 7: and I'm just going to leave it just at that
Speaker 7: field of research. As you have gotten older, has your
Speaker 7: perspective changed at all?
Speaker 4: Well? Yeah, like I was saying earlier, you know, I was,
Speaker 4: I was much much more inclined to believe in Bigfoot
Speaker 4: before I encountered all the bigfood researchers. You know that
Speaker 4: it was they, one after the other who taught me
Speaker 4: how to be skeptical. All right, I mean even when
Speaker 4: you get down to people like Jeff Meldrum or clif Barrickman,
Speaker 4: or people that might be able to be your friends
Speaker 4: or colleagues, you still have to be skeptical of what
Speaker 4: they say, because I mean, I know for a pretty
Speaker 4: darn close to the fact that the stuff in Bluff
Speaker 4: Creek was a hoax, Like maybe not the Jerry Crew tracks,
Speaker 4: but all the rest of it after that was Ray
Speaker 4: Wallace and his buddies creating a bunch of goofy footprint
Speaker 4: tracks and laughing about it. And I know this from
Speaker 4: talking with people who live there, you know, who told
Speaker 4: me the stories of how they were part of it.
Speaker 4: And you know, I never did see like the absolute
Speaker 4: convincing proof, like here's the wooden feet hanging on the
Speaker 4: wall in the garage, right, but I was told, I
Speaker 4: was told, as a matter of fact, that they were
Speaker 4: indeed hanging on the wall in the garage. And you know,
Speaker 4: you see those tracks in what was presented when Ray
Speaker 4: Wallace died, and you know, you can't deny it. They
Speaker 4: matched up perfectly perfectly with the tracks that were found
Speaker 4: in Bluff Creek. And there's even one among all the
Speaker 4: potos I've been able to see, there's one photo that
Speaker 4: shows the track that could match with the Jerry Crew track,
Speaker 4: but it's shown a bleak angle, so you're not exactly
Speaker 4: seeing it with a perfect comparison, but it is very close.
Speaker 4: And I know for a fact that the Blue Creek
Speaker 4: Mountain and Onion Mountain tracks were faked in nineteen sixty seven,
Speaker 4: right before Roger Patterson was called up to come down there.
Speaker 4: So the only thing that stands out to me among
Speaker 4: all the Bluff Creek evidence is the Patterson stuff, and that,
Speaker 4: of course, you know, has a lot of people questioning
Speaker 4: it as well. Maybe Patterson was just a better craftsman
Speaker 4: than Ray Wallace was. But back in the days of
Speaker 4: Jerry Crew, you know, Jerry Crew didn't make that footprint.
Speaker 4: He was honest, sincere believer, and a lot of people
Speaker 4: in the Bluff and Will Creek history they are sincere believers,
Speaker 4: you know. So I mean, I question all of the
Speaker 4: evidence claims, even the ones that are made by my friends,
Speaker 4: and the things that my own group has found. You know,
Speaker 4: we've found plenty of things that could be big foot tracks.
Speaker 4: We've done plenty of things that could have been maybe
Speaker 4: a bigfoot blurrying up our trail cameras, which have been
Speaker 4: running for twelve whole year's NonStop now in Bluff Creek
Speaker 4: at least, you know, an array of them, NonStop monitoring
Speaker 4: for bigfoot and all kinds of other things. But whatever
Speaker 4: we see, we have had zero bigfoot evidence that I
Speaker 4: could stand behind, you know. We on the other hand,
Speaker 4: we've discovered that there are endangered species living on the
Speaker 4: film site area, the Humboldt Martin, which was fairly recently
Speaker 4: just declared an official endangered species. Uh it's really you know,
Speaker 4: like a pine Martin, but a regional variant of it.
Speaker 4: But you know, they're they're they were thought to be
Speaker 4: extinct here. They're genetically distinct population from the surrounding pine
Speaker 4: mark Martins. And this goes back to you know, ice
Speaker 4: age formations and stuff, where you know, we know that
Speaker 4: they they were just segregated off from the other populations,
Speaker 4: and we've shown that they're still living quite happily, prancing
Speaker 4: around on the field site, and they seem to be
Speaker 4: in a mated pair at least one made pair producing babies.
Speaker 4: So I would not just answer your question though, trying
Speaker 4: to be more briefed, like you know, uh, my own
Speaker 4: perspective has changed because I can't just believe in something
Speaker 4: without substantiating it to be true and claims like like
Speaker 4: the step Just take the Olympic Project as an example,
Speaker 4: very smart guys, all all of them wanting to produce science,
Speaker 4: not wu you know, and yet there they are with
Speaker 4: these bigfoot nests things that you know, we all looked
Speaker 4: at it from my side of the picture and said,
Speaker 4: those look kind of like bear nests or or maybe
Speaker 4: they are all wood rat nests or something. But you know,
Speaker 4: they even't got to the point where they you know,
Speaker 4: they were running a go fundme project for uh, the
Speaker 4: DNA testing of this stuff, and they finally got around
Speaker 4: to doing it, and what did they find? No bigfoot
Speaker 4: evidence at all, not a single shred of evidence. And
Speaker 4: then this fact has been hush hunched by the Olympic
Speaker 4: Project guys. It was revealed by by Laura kant Krantz
Speaker 4: in her podcast, The wild Thing Podcast, and she, I
Speaker 4: guess maybe was not supposed to have done that, but
Speaker 4: she had Todd Disstel on the show saying well, we
Speaker 4: found nothing. We found bear, we found deer, we found human,
Speaker 4: we found everything. But what you are looking for, which
Speaker 4: would be some kind of primate that is not human
Speaker 4: and so anyway, like the fact that not only do
Speaker 4: we have people who can't just move on to reject
Speaker 4: that as false evidence, but you have an active cover
Speaker 4: up program to hide that back. And you have people
Speaker 4: in the in the Bigfoot community talking shit about you
Speaker 4: behind your back because you are not one of them anymore,
Speaker 4: you know, And like, this is the thing that's really,
Speaker 4: I phone, particularly hurtful, truly and also harmful to not
Speaker 4: just me but to others, to the discourse in general,
Speaker 4: that there is a cult like behavior pattern going on here, yeah,
Speaker 4: which strikes me is very similar to some pretty negative
Speaker 4: cult history before this. I mean, why would you have
Speaker 4: a cult surrounding Bayfoot? I don't quite get that. But
Speaker 4: people who have seen one, or who believe they saw one,
Speaker 4: are very adamant about trying to verify what they experienced.
Speaker 4: And like, you know, I wasn't there, so I can't
Speaker 4: say for sure that they didn't. You know, I have
Speaker 4: to say, well to my friends and the other people
Speaker 4: who say they saw me, put yeah, maybe maybe you did,
Speaker 4: and maybe I even did. Because there was one night
Speaker 4: in my own yard, one night up on the hill
Speaker 4: above Willow Creek, when there were no, are you still there?
Speaker 5: We're still here, yep.
Speaker 4: Okay, sorry, it's one of those obnoxious Facebook.
Speaker 7: Calls that and we get it.
Speaker 4: But so anyway, so there I am in my own yard, uh,
Speaker 4: and there's something heavy. The ground shakes when it comes
Speaker 4: down the hill. I hear it crashed into the brush.
Speaker 4: And the next day I find tracks in the in
Speaker 4: the understory plants that look like footprints, you know, there
Speaker 4: depressions in the grass, not like mud tracks. But okay,
Speaker 4: this thing happened, and it happened before my eyes, although
Speaker 4: I didn't see it, you know, it was in the dark.
Speaker 4: I was out there, you know, waiting for it to
Speaker 4: move while it was stable in the brush about thirty
Speaker 4: yards for me, and I could not explain to you
Speaker 4: what it was. I finally I decided to go back
Speaker 4: towards my house and I sat there by the cabin
Speaker 4: porch edge and just listened to what was happening. And
Speaker 4: like sure enough, it started moving down the hill and
Speaker 4: it was back in the neighboring yard, which was vacant
Speaker 4: house at the time, and moving up behind the brush,
Speaker 4: you know, which was scotch broom and grape vines and
Speaker 4: some other plants. And it was back behind there, and
Speaker 4: I could hear it breathing and walking. And I don't
Speaker 4: think it was a bear. I mean, because I have
Speaker 4: I had bears coming up to my house quite frequently.
Speaker 4: Where I lived was basically on a game trail near
Speaker 4: a creek near also a bunch of fruit trees and
Speaker 4: stuff that the little neighborhood I was in had, So
Speaker 4: I mean bears, I could distinguish them from a person
Speaker 4: or whatever else. This, whatever it was, it was something different,
Speaker 4: And I mean it sounded like a biped to me,
Speaker 4: and a heavy one to make the ground shake like that.
Speaker 4: I mean, you'd have to weigh quite considerably more than me.
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know what it was. I didn't
Speaker 4: see it, so I can't even say to myself that
Speaker 4: I saw bigfoot or had a big foot encounter. I've
Speaker 4: had everybody like Matt Moneymaker whomever that was a squatch
Speaker 4: as I mean, I've had them up there showing them
Speaker 4: the spot, and well, can I say, you know, I'm
Speaker 4: the most skeptical one of all of my own experience.
Speaker 3: I empathized with that Stephen myself, having had my own
Speaker 3: experience with something and always wanting to be skeptical. You
Speaker 3: don't want to buy into your own bs, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, And you really want to have that
Speaker 3: extra fine magnifying glass to pull out all your own details.
Speaker 3: It's kind of a mindscrew to deal with, and it
Speaker 3: affected me for a long time. I really feel you
Speaker 3: on that one, because I'm still very, you know, strongly
Speaker 3: skeptical about my own experience. And it's just harder when
Speaker 3: you've been in this for a long time. Did I
Speaker 3: really experience something or am I adding more to it
Speaker 3: because maybe in my mind I want it to be
Speaker 3: that way.
Speaker 4: Ye, I don't know, but that was for me. That
Speaker 4: was two thousand and eight and I was my mother
Speaker 4: was in the hospice. I was going down to spend
Speaker 4: time with her in the hospice while she was passing away,
Speaker 4: you know, and right before I left was this weird experience.
Speaker 4: And I can't help but think in some part of me,
Speaker 4: I really deeply wanted it to be Bigfoot to show
Speaker 4: that there was magic still left in the world, or
Speaker 4: that despite the fact that I was losing control, like
Speaker 4: of being able to save my family, you know, I
Speaker 4: could at least I could at least experience Bigfoot coming
Speaker 4: and walking in my yard. Now, I don't know what,
Speaker 4: but you know, there's a long tradition in humanity of
Speaker 4: experiencing like vision quest or whatever you call it. You know,
Speaker 4: in times of importance, Bigfoot is said to arrive and
Speaker 4: to bring a message to humanity. That I mean, that's
Speaker 4: like a common Native American statement. I've heard that from many,
Speaker 4: many tribal people, you know, saying that to me. So
Speaker 4: or rather than books, you know, uh so, I mean,
Speaker 4: I think that that could happen just as soon as
Speaker 4: it with myself or any of us. In the modern
Speaker 4: American world. Out there in the woods, you can experience
Speaker 4: these things and they they take on a to mention
Speaker 4: of reality that is like self accelerating. You know, you
Speaker 4: you're you're wrapped up in it, You're absorbed in it.
Speaker 4: And like having lived in the Willow Creek for all
Speaker 4: those years, now I'm not. I'm suddenly in a different
Speaker 4: world altogether. You know, where Bigfoot does not matter to people.
Speaker 4: I mean where I am now, I'm looking around. I
Speaker 4: don't see any Bigfoot stickers or Bigfoot statues.
Speaker 2: Mm hm.
Speaker 4: The only the only place I see them is like
Speaker 4: maybe in a tourist stop. They have Bigfoot shot glasses
Speaker 4: and postcards, you know, but it's a weird thing to
Speaker 4: not have it. Like, now that that's not in my life,
Speaker 4: I feel this sort of weird emptiness, like, uh, where
Speaker 4: did that magic go? Where's the Bigfoot? You know? Like
Speaker 4: what can I what can I replace it with? You know,
Speaker 4: something else? Maybe I don't know, but you know, part
Speaker 4: of me I want to move somewhere else, like maybe
Speaker 4: I'll go to Mount Chesta study the Limorians or Aliens,
Speaker 4: you know, But there aren't There aren't any Bigfoot where
Speaker 4: I am currently. I don't think it's a there's hardly
Speaker 4: even any trees here. Yeah, there's like a there's an ocean.
Speaker 4: I can see the ocean from my front porch, you know.
Speaker 7: You know it's kind of crazy that you mentioned that.
Speaker 7: Because I'm in northern Illinois. I cannot tell you the
Speaker 7: plethora of Bigfoot culture that I see on bumper stickers,
Speaker 7: on window dc ells on a daily basis. I see
Speaker 7: this now. I understand. A lot of it is, oh,
Speaker 7: this is just a cool culture thing, but here, we
Speaker 7: don't have that here. But yet a lot of people
Speaker 7: pick up on that culture and they go on the
Speaker 7: Bigfoot thing and there's Bigfoot with the American flag over
Speaker 7: its back with the peace sign up. Okay, it is
Speaker 7: what it is. But boy, do I see a lot
Speaker 7: of it here?
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you guys are I mean, I have to say,
Speaker 4: you're in a much higher population density than we have
Speaker 4: out here in the West, right, Like you guys have
Speaker 4: conferences and like, I don't know how you do it.
Speaker 4: Thousands of people show up, you know, all right, we
Speaker 4: had conferences here in Willa Creek with Bob Gimlin standing
Speaker 4: right next to me. Yeah, and everybody famous and it's
Speaker 4: like one hundred and fifty people show up. Yeah, it's
Speaker 4: really weird.
Speaker 5: So listen before we go, here's the question that if
Speaker 5: Henry was here, he would definitely want want to ask you,
Speaker 5: especially with uh, you know, your your history at the
Speaker 5: bookstore and everything. Can you tell us maybe your top
Speaker 5: three books we're involving Bigfoot research that that are a
Speaker 5: must have for you?
Speaker 4: Oh well, okay, yeah, I have to narrow it down
Speaker 4: that much. I would say I would definitely want to
Speaker 4: have John Green's book, I mean, irreplaceable Bible, a factual
Speaker 4: pursuit of of what's going on and what's being reported.
Speaker 4: I mean it's dated by now, but all the more
Speaker 4: required because of the strong, the strong rational argument City makes.
Speaker 4: They're not perfect. John Green was not a professional scientist
Speaker 4: or philosopher, but he was very bright guy, and he
Speaker 4: was very sincere about his pursuit of the meaning or
Speaker 4: the reality of this thing. Regardless of whether it's real
Speaker 4: animal or not. Something is happening, and it's not just hoaxing.
Speaker 4: It's a whole complex mixture of things. And that's sort
Speaker 4: of what John Green was right on the edge of
Speaker 4: all the whole time. Like beyond John Green, I would say,
Speaker 4: you've got to have You've got to have Roger Patterson's book,
Speaker 4: just because I'm fond of it. You know, to me,
Speaker 4: that book is it's just charming, and I had to
Speaker 4: own a first edition of That means you're holding a
Speaker 4: copy that Roger probably carried around in the trunk of
Speaker 4: his car or whatever he was driving to deliver to
Speaker 4: you know, he had his own distribution route, and he
Speaker 4: also had these four while theater presentations that he gave,
Speaker 4: so a great number of the copies that sold were
Speaker 4: actually handled by Roger. And I mean that the sad
Speaker 4: truth of the being that Roger Patterson died in nineteen
Speaker 4: seventy two, right, very long time ago for us now,
Speaker 4: I mean I wish that he had been around longer.
Speaker 4: It would have been so interesting to see how he
Speaker 4: developed as a character and a researcher. Or maybe maybe
Speaker 4: he would have confessed to hoaxing. I don't know, but
Speaker 4: it would have been great. And Bob Gimlin, I mean,
Speaker 4: he's been very interesting to have around, but for the
Speaker 4: most part he was he was separated from it for
Speaker 4: a long time time, didn't want to get involved, felt
Speaker 4: like his wife was going to dump him for the
Speaker 4: negative attention they kept getting all that when he's talked
Speaker 4: about that on and on. But so Jon Patterson, I
Speaker 4: would have to say, well, you should probably get yourself
Speaker 4: a copy of Christopher Murphy's book, Meet the Sad Squatch
Speaker 4: or or Know the Sasquatch. There's two versions of it,
Speaker 4: and they're both different. The first version was written with
Speaker 4: Tom Steinberg and John Green, and it excluded all the
Speaker 4: WU stuff. And it also excluded Peter Burn. I mean
Speaker 4: John Green made that like a rule, like no Peter
Speaker 4: Burn or I'm not doing it. And so when finally,
Speaker 4: when Chris Murphy wanted to do his second edition. He
Speaker 4: had to say to John, well, I'm going to rewrite
Speaker 4: the thing, and he rewrote it so that he could
Speaker 4: remove basically all of the writings of John Green and
Speaker 4: restate it in his own way. But I mean, so
Speaker 4: they're they're different, not necessarily contradicting each other or anything.
Speaker 4: Mostly mostly it's a second edition to the first book,
Speaker 4: but either one, it's going to give you a great
Speaker 4: presentation of the quality uh pictorial history of the field
Speaker 4: of Bigfoot from the beginning, including you know, Native Americans
Speaker 4: and yetti, abominable snowmen and all of that. And no
Speaker 4: one's done quite as thorough a job on it than
Speaker 4: than the Christopher Murphy, although I mean their flaws. Like
Speaker 4: he had in his book, he had the film site identified,
Speaker 4: and I had to tell him, you know, you better
Speaker 4: stop doing that because he just proved that it's wrong.
Speaker 4: And he was going to go up in front of
Speaker 4: the whole conference in Washington and gives this presentation. And
Speaker 4: yet he said he was grateful he was able to
Speaker 4: modify it in the last minute. But you know, you
Speaker 4: had always google eers the images and stuff that were
Speaker 4: not accurate. And anyway, he was close, but not close enough.
Speaker 4: You know. So anyway, those are the three. I would
Speaker 4: also recommend you know, read some skeptical books, like there
Speaker 4: are good skeptical books like they might piss you off, right,
Speaker 4: like the book Life in Times of a Legend, Bigfood
Speaker 4: Life and Times of a Legend by Joshua Booze as
Speaker 4: b u h s uh. This is a book that
Speaker 4: when I first met money Made, I first met Matt Moneymaker.
Speaker 4: He came in my store, wrapped this thing out of
Speaker 4: the front window and stalked up to the desk and said,
Speaker 4: holding the book up, you should burn this thing. I'm
Speaker 4: just like, holy shit, it's that Moneymaker. But anyway, that
Speaker 4: was a classic moment for me. That book is very
Speaker 4: thorough and it's historical analysis and it's it's a critical book.
Speaker 4: But if you I always say to the believers, you know,
Speaker 4: if your belief can't withstand the skepticism of one author
Speaker 4: or like me, a Facebook group leader or whatever, then
Speaker 4: how is it going to ever stand up to me
Speaker 4: with the very eye standards of real science? And I
Speaker 4: always say for it to be science, for it to
Speaker 4: be real, you have to have the highest standards. They'll
Speaker 4: shoot you down. Otherwise you're going to be shot to
Speaker 4: pieces if you can't to say what you think is real,
Speaker 4: and that's the way it should be.
Speaker 7: Well, I'm going to put note to self right now.
Speaker 7: I'm writing this down, UH, Vance and Steven best friends,
Speaker 7: I because I appreciate every aspect you have just taken,
Speaker 7: and uh, it sits well within the cockles of my heart.
Speaker 7: That of your perspective sits very well with my perspective.
Speaker 7: So thank you. I I greatly appreciate it.
Speaker 4: And if you want, come and join our Facebook group. Absolutely,
Speaker 4: coalitions were critical thinking and big research.
Speaker 7: That's awesome. You know, that's awesome. Thank you.
Speaker 4: You can find it pretty easily. It's got a weird name.
Speaker 4: We'll be careful. There's a couple of fake uh pages
Speaker 4: of trolls have made.
Speaker 7: Trying to of course, that happens all the time, you know.
Speaker 4: And also, you know, check out Bluff Creek projects. That's
Speaker 4: what we've done, yeah, you know, between the film site
Speaker 4: studies and the history of Bluff Creek in general and
Speaker 4: the the UH current and trail camera stuff he's done,
Speaker 4: and you know, lately we've been doing even more like
Speaker 4: with the with the with the drones and the light
Speaker 4: r and stuff. You could see it. It was on
Speaker 4: expedition Bigfoot of all places. But but Rowdy, our guy,
Speaker 4: our drone guy are he's a film expert of our group.
Speaker 4: He did the the work with them, take their light,
Speaker 4: our guy the very exact spot where we know now
Speaker 4: that I mean Patterson films the Bigfoot, and we we
Speaker 4: were able to show him this data from our survey
Speaker 4: map and current actual objects on the ground still to
Speaker 4: the state, and he determined that the subject in the
Speaker 4: film was no more than six foot three in heights
Speaker 4: and so that argument, I mean, I think he has been
Speaker 4: shot down. We've been trying for years to get people
Speaker 4: to stop saying it's seven foot or taller. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 4: Bigfoot doesn't have to be seven feet tall. You know
Speaker 4: it could be just that's how tall that big Foot was.
Speaker 7: Well, Corey Lekapoy from Canada. You know Canada, it's America's
Speaker 7: top hat or America's largest national park, he commented too,
Speaker 7: and giving you a double thumbs up. So thank you, Corey.
Speaker 7: We appreciate you being here.
Speaker 4: Brother Corey has been around for a long time in
Speaker 4: the cold.
Speaker 10: He has.
Speaker 4: That any of you people, even if you don't like
Speaker 4: the skeptical attitude. Just go and look at it and
Speaker 4: try to learn. I mean, I look at the believers
Speaker 4: sites with an open mind, so why can't they be
Speaker 4: open minded about skepticism?
Speaker 7: Absolutely, absolutely, Sean, we don't hear you what's going on.
Speaker 3: I had the damn mute button hit that's for you, mute,
Speaker 3: but going on. So no, wonder you didn't hear any
Speaker 3: anything I said. I said, that's a great place to
Speaker 3: put a stamp on it. Yep, for the night, Steve,
Speaker 3: thanks for joining us tonight. We appreciate it, man, Thank.
Speaker 7: You, Steven, Thank you appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, thank you guys. And I definitely ever need
Speaker 4: someone on the show to give me a ring or whatever.
Speaker 3: Absolutely we got. We still have more to touch on
Speaker 3: about uh more topics. We barely touched the service tonight here, folks. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but that's Monday nights. Sometimes an hour just ain't enough, folks.
Speaker 3: I'm Sean Forker, that's fans and has a bit Matt
Speaker 3: arn Or, Stephen Stroyford on behaps of James Baker and
Speaker 3: Henry May who aren't here. Give us those dulcet tones there.
Speaker 7: Vance you all be good or be good at it.
Speaker 3: We'll see in two weeks. Folks, have great night.
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