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It's because of you that I can put out the

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amount of material that I do. I can do what

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and everything else, the things that Thomas and I are

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doing together on kindinal philosophy, it's all because of you.

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And yeah, I mean, I'll never be able to thank

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Everything's there. I want to welcome everyone back to the

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Peking Yona Show. I want to welcome back Daryl Cooper.

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How are you doing now?

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Speaker 2: What's up? Man? I'm great? How are you doing well?

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Speaker 1: Doing well? All right, let's uh, let's jump into a

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topic that I asked you to come on and talk about.

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When the phrase the Jewish question, and that is a

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capital J, capital Q historic question. When someone raises that up,

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what do you think.

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Speaker 2: Oh, somebody that I don't have any background on.

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Speaker 1: You know, no, no, I was saying. I was saying

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when no, no, if if, if you just hear it,

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like I say, an academic was well, when you hear

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that term, like historically, where do you go to? What

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is what's your frame or reference?

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Speaker 2: Well, I look at it. It's like part of the

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modern Jewish European experience and you know, having to do

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with the period of national uprisings across Europe and how

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Jews fit into societies like post post national nationalist awakenings.

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I mean, it is kind of a thing that you know,

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the themes that came out that come out as people

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work through through the Jewish question the various European countries.

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You know, you see these themes all throughout history. You know,

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you read Tacitus the Roman writing about them. You read

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Menetho of various Greek writers writing about Jews, and you

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kind of see that there's a running theme that comes

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up again in Europe. You know that in a society

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like feudal Europe was in traditional you know, traditionalist aristocracy,

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different estates with different rights and privileges and everybody kind

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of nobody really questioned that that was the way things

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ought to be put together. You know, the idea of

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universal human rights that apply to everybody equally. It was

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just not a thing. And so, you know the fact

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that you had this sort of self contained, semi autonomous,

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self governing community of people who weren't really quite part

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of the community, but they performed certain vital that was

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okay in a society, you know, where where you didn't

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words like things like the rule of law, like we're

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not nobody really thought that something like that should be

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applicable to you know, like a peasant should be able

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to bring a suit against a king or something. Nobody

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believed that, and so it worked. When you know, you

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get to the French Revolution. I think the Jewish question,

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the phrase, I believe it popped up in England in

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like the seventeen fifties when they were debating like Jewish naturalization,

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but took on the form that we're most familiar with

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it after the French Revolution, I think, because you know,

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it was a time where you know, you had this

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group of people that was set apart in every way,

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like they were basically self governing, had their own customs,

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they had their own laws. I mean, depending on where

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you were in Europe and what time you're talking about,

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I mean, they could execute their own members for religious laws,

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you know, and like in the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth, the

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local authorities would sometimes enforce those rules for them. They

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would go arrest Jews who the rabbis you know, request

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to be arrested, and they would bring them in for

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punishment corporal or otherwise. And so when you have that

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and all of a sudden, you know, you have a

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series of revolutions and this nationalist idea that everybody is

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an equal citizen, the rule of law and stuff. But

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you still have this group of people. You have to

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figure out what to do with them, because you know,

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it's everybody has this idea that like the ghetto and

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the Schettle were places that the Jews were confined to

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like concentration camps or something. There was some there was

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some amount of that where the local societies were trying

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to like keep them, keep them away from the Christian population,

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but the majority of like the push for that came

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from within the leadership of those Jewish communities themselves. They

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saw it as a way to protect their own people

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from the influences of the outside. And so when Jewish

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emancipations started getting underway after the French Revolution, first in

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western and Central Europe and much later in the East,

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you know, you had this kind of push push and

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pull where you know, young Jews usually just like young

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people usually want to do, you know, they want to

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leave the farm and go to the big city or something.

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And you know, the rabbis are watching their Jewish communities,

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their villages kind of bleed their young people as they

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want to go out to Paris, they want to go

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to London, you know, learn the local language and read

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the local literature and poetry and become you know that thing.

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Because that spirit was in the air anyway, everybody kind

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of wanted to be a part of it, you know,

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and so it was sort of a crisis for the

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Jewish community in general, and it became a crisis for

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the host societies you know, themselves, because you know, you

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had a group of people who, you know, this was

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a this was a very it was a very capable

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group of people in many ways, well organized and capable

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in the sense that you know, a lot of the

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a lot of the vocations and skills and habits that

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we associate with modernity that at this time, you know,

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as people are moving from the countryside into the European cities,

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like we're gradually sort of being introduced to the Jews

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had already sort of been in that in that place

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for quite a while, kind of waiting for everybody else

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to catch up. And so, yeah, this very like capable

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group of people that performed functions that nobody else could

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really perform at the time, at least at the scale

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that was necessary, who had very often you know, a say,

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their their relationship to the local commoners, you know, ranged

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from apathetic to hostel, but who had good relations with

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the local rulers or local lords who gave them the

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privileges and the protection they needed. And so you know,

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when all of a sudden, you know, the all of

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those commoners. Those that's the voting public who gets to

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decide what the government policies are and stuff. Now, like

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it's kind of a crisis on all sides, it had

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to be navigated. So to answer your question in short,

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I mean when I hear Jewish question, I think of

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the modern European experience during the nationalist era. But again

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it is something that you can kind of trace the

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themes of going all the way back at least to

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the Second Temple period.

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Speaker 1: I think it seems like in the modern day it

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basically transformed a little bit. So Bruno Bauer in eighteen

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forty three writes the Jewish question, and it's I guess

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with all of those young people coming out, they're like, okay.

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The way Israel Shahak talks about it in his book

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Jewish History Jewish Religion is that a lot of the

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younger people, a lot of the people in the stettles

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and in the villages were basically kept there and with

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quote unquote democratization happening, basically now it's legal, they can

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actually make a legal plea to the government to be

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like we want we want to be separated from this,

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we want to end you know, Bauer basically was trying

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to answer the question, oh, how do you do how

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can we make them free? And he's like, well, a

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Christian society can't make them free, because a Christian society

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can't be free. Bruno Bauer was this weirdo secularist who

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is like, got to get rid of religion. The state

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is the only thing that can save you. Then six

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months nine months later, Marx, in one of his most

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famous essay is on the Jewish question, answers Bauer, and

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he takes it a step further. His essay has things

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in it like where he talks about religion being the

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opiate of the masses. That's from that essay. It's a

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much longer quote. In context, it makes a lot more

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sense than he starts to describe from more of a

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left radical viewpoint, how he sees the jew basically contributing

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by the way they are and by the way they

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operate to his what he sees. He sees capitalism as

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a necess very function to derascinate all of humanity so

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that humanity can come in and abandon the state, abandoned religion.

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Except you know what, basically, a Marxian, a Marxian like

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utopia quote unquote, but as it goes forward, basically it

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looks like, especially in Russia, the question really starts talking

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about assimilation. Russia in the eighteen hundreds had the Derjavin Commission.

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There was like eleven conferences to how do these people,

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how does this nation within an orthodox Christian nation operate?

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And I think that that's you know, even if you

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bring it all the way up to today, Basically it's

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like you have a people who consider themselves to be

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separate and have their own interest and how does a

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society that is maybe founded in Orthodoxy or founded in Protestantism,

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how do you incorporate that into it? So it really

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seems like assimilation is the big question, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, it became that and it you know,

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it sort of became the I guess the fly in

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the ointment that you know, that that sort of drove

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I think, especially in the twentieth century, that really like

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accelerated and drove the process of the secularization of European societies,

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you know, because you know, look, you know European people

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and their descendants here in America and Australia and stuff,

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we're just we're generally like open hearted tolerant people. You know,

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we don't like being unjust without cause, you know, I mean,

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it's just that's just generally the case. I mean, even

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you reading like mindcomf when Hitler's talking about his early

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years when he started thinking about the Jewish question, how

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he was beset by fears that like he you know,

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that he was being unjust and then he was even

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you know, so even somebody who who broke through that

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and went all the way to the other side, like

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still experience that because it's natural, I think for us,

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for Christians, and you know, so there was this like

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trying the attempt to answer that question of how you

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integrate these people, assimilate these people into a Christian society.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, the answer kind of came to be stop being

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a Christian society, and that you know, I don't think

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that was the solution that anybody at the time would

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have hoped for, planned for, but it's the one that

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we came to. I mean, one of the things that

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and actually to flip that around too, Jews kind of

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had their own answer to that question. You know, that's

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what reform Judaism really is. You know, their answer is

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how do we assimilate what we got to stopping Jews Christians.

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Christian countries kind of decided, well, we got to stop

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being Christian countries, you know, and so this was going

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on on both sides. They tried to solve that problem.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I think maybe the uh, you know, like like a

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place like New York in the first half of the

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twentieth century was probably like a good example of how

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this could operate in a in a more or less

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healthy way, you know, sort of a where you people

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maintain they have their identities and their separateness, and yet

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they still have their enough of a collective identity with

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their neighbors that they can operate cooperatively in a in

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a city government, you know, and you had a situation where,

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you know, it's sort of like it was kind of

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like it wasn't written into the New York you know,

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constitution or whatever they have or whatever. But it's kind

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of like Lebanon, where in Lebanon, like you have a

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Christians fill certain government positions, Sooni's fill other et cetera.

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And they do that because you know, they in a

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diverse society, you know, in a healthy diverse society, you know,

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such as it is people are very open about the

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fact that it is diverse and that the people there

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have separate identities and separate interests, and the question is

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how do we how do we get them to cooperate

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and work together and recognize that they have more in

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common than they do with the people across the border.

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And you know, I think that a lot of the

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big cities in the US like sort of did that

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fairly well for like up until the first half of

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the twentieth century. And uh, when you when you try

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to build a society based on denying those differences, you know,

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pretending that they don't exist at all, and they are

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you know, any any idea that there are separate communities

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with separate interests or anything like that. You're you know,

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they take that as an accusation that like, these people

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are not one of us, or they're not loyal or

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something like. When you try to do that and you

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just deny reality like that, you know, reality persists and

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your solutions become wackier and whackier as you try to

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solve for for problems that that that aren't real. You know.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned that the Christian country, the Christian nation

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basically has to stop being Christian. And you mentioned the

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Reformed Jews who say that you have to stop basically

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being religiously Jewish. But even when Jews stopped being religiously Jewish,

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there's still a Jewish identity there. When Christians lose their Christianity,

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especially like in the United States, well what's their identity?

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What's there? So basically what you have then is you

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have a group that has deracinated itself from something that

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held them together, especially through the Founding, and now you

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have another group who's come in later. German Jews started

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coming in early eighteen hundreds. Sombart says that some of

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the cavaliers and the Puritans were probably Jewish. There was

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a big group that had converted over the years, so

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you had people who are ethnically Jewish now calling themselves

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Christian who were here. But it's really the eighteen eighties

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when you start seeing the Palist settlement, the Russian Jews

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come in, and that's when, I guess, not too far

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after that, that's when really Christianity is starting. You start

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seeing it falling away, and when you have a group

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that is now really only well, we're Americans. There's no

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metaph there is a metaphysic to that, if you really

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think about it, a historic metaphysics, but it's not as

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strong as metaphysic as being like a Christian nation. But

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then you have another group that's come in who is cohesive,

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even if they're not religious, or cohesive in an identity

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and an ethnic identity, and it's a lot easier for

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a group that's cohesive like that to organize and for

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lack of a better term, and I don't think anyone's

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going to argue with especially what we see with things

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that come out of Ted Cruz's mouth and things we've

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seen it recently, that it's very easy for them to

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take over if you are organized. It's basic elite theory.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's one of the things I try to

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drive this home to people on the right who you know,

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they start reading about this stuff and it can get

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overwhelming and they start to they start to see like

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this big, overwhelming kind of Jewish conspiracy, whether in the

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United States or world well, whatever it is. And what

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I try to get through to them is like, you know,

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the United States, I mean to like, up until about

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the sixties and seventies, we had a recognizable, not official,

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but still a recognizable like ancestral ruling class in this country.

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You know, you had people who stretched back to the

293
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founders or at least to like you know, like people

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like Rockefellers, Vanderbilt's, Harriman's, all of these people who they

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had a sense of proprietorship over the country. And even

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they did a lot of things that we would look

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back on and say, we're terrible and destructive and probably

298
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like let us down the road we are now, but

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they still had that sense of this is our country,

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and this is going to be our great great great

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grandkids country, and we need to operate with that in mind.

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In the sixties and seventies, like what was left of

303
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that class really got delegitimized by the Vietnam War and

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the Cultural Revolution, and then they just kind of stopped

305
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having kids or the kids they did have were they

306
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didn't pick up the torch, you know. They I think

307
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the last rock, the last meaningful Rockefeller, was probably Nelson.

308
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He died in seventy eight, seventy nine. And who even

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knows what the Rockefeller's names are now? Nobody really knows.

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And I know one of them went to the South

311
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Pacific and got eaten by cannibals or something like that,

312
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but nobody even knows, you know, because their kids didn't

313
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pick up the torch. And all of a sudden, you

314
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have this apparatus we call America the system, American government,

315
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but also just sort of the corporate system and all

316
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the other institutions that kind of make it up. The

317
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controls just we're just floating through space, and nobody was

318
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at the controls. And it turned out that once you

319
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know that, that that old wasp elite had sort of

320
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vacated and abdicated their responsibility, anybody who you know, who could,

321
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who could, who knew how to work the controls and

322
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was able to get in there and and and and

323
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take them in hand, could could do it. And so

324
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you see, like other groups, they try to do what

325
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the Jews do in America, and they try to get

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the American system, American government to like bend to their

327
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ethnic interests. And some of them are more or less

328
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successful in various ways. And nobody's as successful as the Jews,

329
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because the Jews are just really good at it, you know,

330
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they they have been. And part of the reason for that,

331
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I think, I mean part of it is that they've

332
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been in urban people for a lot longer than the

333
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rest of us happening. So they're they're they're literate, they're urban.

334
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They this is kind of a part of their col

335
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One of the other is that they're tight knit, they're intelligent,

336
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you know, in general. And I think also like the

337
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the the fact that you know, they have a religion,

338
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and again like even Jews who aren't religious, like the

339
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culture is still in there just the same way if

340
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you're born in America, you know you're a Christian in

341
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a certain way, regardless you know, whether you like it

342
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or not. That you know, they have like a cultural

343
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tradition going back, I mean thousands of years at least

344
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that is really based on like teaching them how to

345
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survive and thrive in host societies by endearing yourself to

346
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power and learning how to bend it to help and

347
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benefit your own people. You know, you have like you

348
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go back to the period of the exile when the

349
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Babylonians carted off the Jewish leadership cast you know, to Babylon,

350
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and within a generation, you know, they had become very prosperous,

351
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economically powerful in the vicinity of Babylon just through trade

352
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and tax collecting and money lending and a lot of

353
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those traditional vocations of theirs. And there's a lot of evidence.

354
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Heinrich writes, the Jewish historian who wrote a great six

355
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,359
volume history of history of the Jews back in the

356
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eighteen hundreds, really really good history. I think, you know,

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he kind of lays out why he believes that, and

358
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there are good reasons to think this, that the Jews

359
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who were there in Babylon probably were in touch with

360
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the Persians and kind of helped pave the way for

361
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the Persian invasion and destruction of Babylon. And that's why

362
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when the Persians took over, the Jews were given a

363
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lot of privileges. They were given high positions at court,

364
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you know, as you see in the Book of Esther

365
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for example. And you know, the of course Ezra and

366
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Nehemiah and their clique were allowed to go back to

367
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Jerusalem and sort of sub you get the people who

368
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live there who have been left behind, you know, after

369
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the exile and reimpose quote unquote sort of Jewish government

370
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on those people on behalf of the Persians, right, and

371
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so you know, and it was probably right during that time,

372
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right after the Persian liberation that, like the stories of Joseph,

373
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were probably added to the Book of Genesis. The story

374
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of Daniel was probably written during that time. The story

375
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of Esther was certainly written during that time, and all

376
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of these, all of these are stories that are built

377
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into the Old Testament. They are people Jews who showed

378
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:43,160
their devotion by getting close to the powerful people in

379
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a local society through their wit or charm or you know,

380
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,880
divine revelation, and then using the positions that they're gain

381
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and the privileges they gained to help their own people,

382
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you know. And you see this in extreme form in

383
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,200
like the Book of Genesis with Joseph. It's something that

384
00:22:59,519 --> 00:23:01,640
when you you read the story in Sunday School of

385
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,640
Joseph and everything, and it's just kind of the coat

386
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,839
of many colors and all the other kind of stuff,

387
00:23:05,839 --> 00:23:09,039
and you don't really pick up on what it's really describing.

388
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,559
You know. He becomes basically the Grand Vizier of Egypt.

389
00:23:12,599 --> 00:23:15,720
You know, he's in charge of putting aside all the

390
00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:18,079
grain and everything because there's a big famine coming. And

391
00:23:18,759 --> 00:23:22,880
when Jacob and his sons bring their people to ask for,

392
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you know, some help because there is a famine all

393
00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:27,200
throughout the region. It goes through and talks about how

394
00:23:27,279 --> 00:23:30,240
now that Joseph had collected and put aside all the

395
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:35,599
Egyptian grain, he started charging the Egyptian people for this

396
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,640
grain and eventually expropriating like everything they had, you know,

397
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,319
to get to so that they could feed their families.

398
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,920
And then when his when his own people came, he

399
00:23:46,079 --> 00:23:48,599
just sort of, you know, he kind of brought them

400
00:23:48,599 --> 00:23:50,680
in sort of free of charge and set them up,

401
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,680
as you know, on good land. So this is and

402
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,160
this is something that's looked at as an ultimate act

403
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,720
of piety, you know, which you know, you have to

404
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,160
it is in a way, I mean, you know, I'm

405
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,319
not I don't A lot of people I think who

406
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,519
who talk about these subjects, they they they sort of

407
00:24:09,599 --> 00:24:13,119
begrudge the Jews this this attitude of like this self

408
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,440
referential attitude. I don't at all. I mean, they're good

409
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,599
for them, you know, this is as far as they're concerned.

410
00:24:18,599 --> 00:24:20,759
This is their world and everybody else is living in it.

411
00:24:21,519 --> 00:24:24,599
And you know everybody should think that way to some degree.

412
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,799
So I don't I don't hold that against them necessarily

413
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,240
in that sense, but you know, you have like the

414
00:24:32,519 --> 00:24:34,720
Jewish religion in general. I mean, you can take this

415
00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:37,079
all the way back even to like you know, the

416
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,079
dietary laws and things like that are you know, the

417
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,960
whole thing is sort of a survival guide for a

418
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,680
people in exile. You know, it's a it's a how

419
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,240
do you hold together, resist assimilation and just sort of

420
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,400
maintain your own sense of identity and safety and all

421
00:24:56,519 --> 00:24:58,279
get all the things that you need from a host

422
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:04,680
society over time. And that's what the the what Judaism

423
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,880
really is in a lot of ways as an instruction

424
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,319
manual for doing that. And it's because you know, that's

425
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,759
the way that they've been living for alone, or at

426
00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:15,960
least the people who have have sort of left the

427
00:25:16,079 --> 00:25:18,000
Jewish tradition as we know it. It's how they've been

428
00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:21,039
living for a very very long time. You know. The

429
00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:24,119
the you know, you go back to the time of Christ,

430
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:29,279
for example, and you know, something like they were like

431
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,079
ninety percent of all the Jews in the world lived

432
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,720
outside of Judea. You know, they lived in Babylon, they

433
00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:39,200
lived in Alexandria, they lived in Rome, they lived in

434
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,240
the Greek cities all over the place. And this was

435
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:43,400
already by the time of Christ. Like you know, most

436
00:25:43,519 --> 00:25:47,400
Jews lived outside of Judea, and you know, Jerusalem didn't

437
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,920
even have the largest Jewish population of a city in

438
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,519
Alexandria had a larger larger Jewish population, and so, you know,

439
00:25:54,559 --> 00:25:57,720
and you really had even during even during those days,

440
00:25:57,759 --> 00:26:02,160
you know, you had sort of step para it Jewish

441
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,039
power centers that sometimes were in competition with each other,

442
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,480
and it was kind of a you know, you had

443
00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:11,839
like the Jews of Alexandria and Rome and the Babylonian Jews,

444
00:26:12,079 --> 00:26:14,759
who you know, they kind of looked at the Jerusalem Jews,

445
00:26:14,839 --> 00:26:17,960
who are the descendants of the Ezra and Nehemiah kind

446
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,160
of they're they're sort of like the uh, they're they're actually,

447
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:23,839
it's probably a good way to put it. They're like

448
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,680
the they're like the extremist settlers that you see out

449
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,480
in the West Bank today. That's what like the people

450
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,160
Ezra and the Amayah brought back were right and so

451
00:26:32,279 --> 00:26:34,200
because i mean, you know, the Jews were prosperous in

452
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,759
Babylon by this point, they've been there seventy years, most

453
00:26:36,759 --> 00:26:38,400
of them had all been born there. They didn't want

454
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,480
to leave their businesses, their friends and all those other

455
00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:43,319
kind of things, and a small clique of them went

456
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,759
back when the Persians let them do it. But those

457
00:26:45,759 --> 00:26:48,680
were like the hardcore Yahuists who wanted to go back

458
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,839
and reimpose this like really strict version that now has

459
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,759
come down as just that's what Judaism is, you know,

460
00:26:56,839 --> 00:26:59,880
to us, because that's you know, eventually like what kind

461
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,319
of one out. But even then, I mean, you know,

462
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,799
the the Babylonian Jews, the Alexandrians, a lot of the

463
00:27:05,839 --> 00:27:08,880
other more cosmopolitan types, they looked on the Jerusalem and

464
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,359
Judaan and Jews sort of as a kind of the

465
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:16,119
way like a like a Muslim in Beirut, you know,

466
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,839
and when Beirut was still a you know, really nice

467
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,880
would look at the Saudi Arabians. You know, they're like, yeah,

468
00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:25,839
they you know, respect whatever. They they take care of

469
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,960
Mecca and Medina, and we'd defer to that, but can

470
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,160
you guys please give it a rest, you know, like

471
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,240
it's kind of ridiculous. And that's how they were kind

472
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,359
of looked at. And so you know that that whole

473
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,880
sense of like having a cultural tradition that is entirely

474
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:46,640
dedicated forward maintaining your separateness amidst other people at a

475
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,480
time when the entire project you get to get back

476
00:27:49,519 --> 00:27:52,039
up to the nationalist period in Europe, like it was

477
00:27:52,079 --> 00:27:54,400
not just a cultural drive or a movement, It was

478
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,279
a political project that had policies that were enforced against

479
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,279
not just Jews, but all kinds of people. Well, to

480
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,160
nationalize these peoples, to make all the different people here

481
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,279
in Russia who had just been imperial subjects, make them

482
00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:09,880
into Russians, you know. And this was something that was

483
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,359
going on all around Europe as the national you know,

484
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,039
as the nationalist period progressed, and you have this one

485
00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:20,640
group of people, which you know, in most of Europe

486
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,319
outside the Russian Empire, which is kind of a separate issue,

487
00:28:23,319 --> 00:28:26,559
but you know, in Western and Central Europe, you know,

488
00:28:26,599 --> 00:28:28,599
the Jews were very often like pretty much the only

489
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,920
minority that were there. So it's not as if there

490
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,079
were a lot of different minorities that had to be managed.

491
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,839
So you have this one minority that's there that you know,

492
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,680
again as a cultural tradition going back twenty five hundred years,

493
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,519
that's entirely dedicated to resisting the nationalization project that you're

494
00:28:42,519 --> 00:28:45,240
trying to now impose on everybody in your country, you know,

495
00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:49,079
and it was a recipe for trouble, and you know,

496
00:28:49,119 --> 00:28:50,640
and that's obviously how it turned out.

497
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: Well, I guess the question to ask is is it

498
00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:05,160
good for the host population? So in Spain historically not

499
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,920
even I know, people want to talk about the gates

500
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,920
at Toledos seven to eleven. I don't care about any

501
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,519
of that. The Moslims, the Moors, took over Spain and

502
00:29:13,759 --> 00:29:18,319
the Jews were given free reign, they ruled certain areas,

503
00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:23,839
they were allowed to take slaves. Bruce Bachrock's book One

504
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,960
Medieval Jewish Policy in Western Europe is a really good

505
00:29:28,039 --> 00:29:29,079
source on that.

506
00:29:29,079 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: That is a very good book.

507
00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:36,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And so when it got to the point

508
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:42,480
of the reconquista, and you finished a reconquista, obviously, if

509
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,079
there's been somebody there for seven hundred years who has

510
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,400
been treating the native population, has not only been treating

511
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,519
the native population like slaves, but also has been conspiring

512
00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:59,480
the whole time with Moslims, surprised that actually happened. Jews

513
00:29:59,519 --> 00:30:05,440
and maslim get along get along very often. You know,

514
00:30:05,559 --> 00:30:08,559
it's like, okay, well, now that we've taken the country back,

515
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,359
these people have treated us the way they've treated us

516
00:30:11,359 --> 00:30:15,079
for seven hundred years. We're going to get rid of them.

517
00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:20,759
We're going to kick them out. So bring bring that

518
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:23,799
all the way up to like, let's bring that up

519
00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:24,680
to nineteen hundred.

520
00:30:25,359 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: So the Zionists can I just jump in real quick

521
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,359
on that point because they think people understand Like in

522
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,519
fourteen ninety two when the Riconquista was sort of completed

523
00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:39,519
and the Jews were expelled from Spain. You know, you

524
00:30:39,519 --> 00:30:42,759
have to remember it, like they didn't have like an

525
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:45,680
Ellis Island where like people showed up and you now

526
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,000
a naturalized American citizen or whatever. They didn't have any

527
00:30:49,039 --> 00:30:51,200
of those concepts. There were no citizens. There were no

528
00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:54,440
any of those things. And so like, how do you tell, like,

529
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,119
after we just got done with a seven hundred year

530
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,039
long war against people who were still right on the

531
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:03,640
other side of Gibraltar over there, how do we make

532
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,839
sure that like the people who are here are one

533
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,319
of us. You know, you can't be like, well, he's

534
00:31:08,319 --> 00:31:11,400
a citizens. There was none of that. And so the

535
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,240
way that they did it was, you know, this was

536
00:31:14,519 --> 00:31:17,480
Christians versus Muslims, and the Jews were on the side

537
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,640
of the Muslims and that's how you tell. And so

538
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,519
they you know, obviously everybody's listening to you for a

539
00:31:22,519 --> 00:31:26,559
while knows that the Jews were and Muslims actually, like

540
00:31:26,599 --> 00:31:28,359
a lot of a lot of Muslims, not all of them,

541
00:31:28,359 --> 00:31:31,039
but they were given the opportunity to convert to Christianity

542
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:35,160
and stick around if they wanted to a lot of them, did,

543
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,119
you know, and just sort of melted into the Christian population.

544
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,039
A lot of them adopted Christianity kind of on the surface,

545
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:48,720
you know, so that they could enjoy the legal privileges,

546
00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:51,319
business privileges and stuff that were sort of put aside

547
00:31:51,319 --> 00:31:55,440
for Christians. And you know that that led to confusion

548
00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:58,759
and then eventually, you know, being positioned because you had

549
00:31:59,119 --> 00:32:00,839
I mean, and again, like you know, people who think

550
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,440
like people think of the Inquisition as if it was

551
00:32:03,519 --> 00:32:06,319
just this like this religious madness, like the Salem witch

552
00:32:06,359 --> 00:32:08,519
trials or something like that. But this was a real

553
00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:11,359
political problem. You know, you had these people who were

554
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,960
here who had converted to your thing and were wearing

555
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,680
your clothes and speaking your language and doing all these things,

556
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,079
who had just come over from the side that was

557
00:32:20,119 --> 00:32:22,519
helping the people we just conquered and threw out a here,

558
00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:24,799
and you really have to make sure that these people

559
00:32:24,839 --> 00:32:28,359
are on board with your program, you know, and there's

560
00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:30,720
a question of like how do you do that, And

561
00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:34,440
the answer is that every solution, every answer, is extremely

562
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,799
difficult and probably going to lead to mistakes and problems.

563
00:32:37,839 --> 00:32:40,400
And that's just how it is, you know. And so

564
00:32:41,119 --> 00:32:43,680
that part is really important to understand that like Jews

565
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,559
in the pre modern European context, it was not as if,

566
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,079
like you know, you had like like you're just a

567
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,680
minority living in an American city or something, and you're

568
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,960
just sort of a person who happens to look different

569
00:32:58,079 --> 00:33:00,599
or just whatever. It wasn't like that. You had people

570
00:33:00,599 --> 00:33:05,160
who were separated communities who lived together, who had their

571
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,799
own customs off in their own language, not so much

572
00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:11,759
in Spain, but and so you know, this idea of

573
00:33:11,799 --> 00:33:14,559
like universal citizenship and there's certain people that aren't being

574
00:33:14,599 --> 00:33:17,880
accorded their rights. It was just very, very very different.

575
00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:22,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it's good to put that in there, because

576
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,039
a lot of people have done covered Demeestra's letters on

577
00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:30,480
the Inquisition, and it's not what a lot of people

578
00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:33,039
think it was. It was literally they wanted to find

579
00:33:33,079 --> 00:33:36,480
out if it was a genuine conversion to Christianity, and

580
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:40,680
if it wasn't, they could convert, or they could they

581
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,480
had to leave. That's pretty much what it That's pretty

582
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:46,319
much what it was. And then it turned into a

583
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,039
system of a system like a court system actually, and

584
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,000
you can read about that over the centuries. But I

585
00:33:54,039 --> 00:33:57,880
think it was like even the Inquisition numbers were like

586
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:02,480
they found sixty to seventy percent genuine conversions, So it

587
00:34:02,519 --> 00:34:06,119
wasn't like they were like they were really going hard.

588
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,320
I mean, you can pretty much go to someone's house

589
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,480
and tell if they're they're Catholic at that point, you know, so.

590
00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:16,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and anytime you're anytime you're running a program

591
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:18,760
like that from you know, it could be uh in

592
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,480
the Soviet Union, you know, where they're trying to find

593
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,480
out if you're really a communist back to back. Then

594
00:34:24,559 --> 00:34:27,039
you run into the problem of like perverse incentives, you know,

595
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,719
where you had like a lot of times you had

596
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,760
Jews turning in other uh you know, Christianized Jews to

597
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,519
the authorities saying that they were false Christians because there

598
00:34:38,559 --> 00:34:40,639
was a reward behind it. If you know, you if

599
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:43,920
you turn someone in and you create all these bad incentives,

600
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,039
it kind of become like a negative feedback loop. And

601
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:52,360
that's just again like it's you know, those are situations

602
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,320
you want to try to avoid in any society, but

603
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,079
when you get into them, I mean, there's no easy

604
00:34:56,079 --> 00:34:56,719
way out of it.

605
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: So well, and another good thing's a point out about

606
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,119
the inquisition is is that it lasted about three hundred

607
00:35:03,159 --> 00:35:08,400
and twenty five years and roughly three thousand people were

608
00:35:09,039 --> 00:35:11,679
put to death, not by the Church but by the

609
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:16,840
Cortes and the government did it. And then fast forward

610
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,119
to the Spanish Civil War in nineteen thirty six. The

611
00:35:19,159 --> 00:35:22,360
second half of nineteen thirty six, over four thousand priest, nuns,

612
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,000
and seminarians were murdered in Spain.

613
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:30,039
Speaker 2: So yeah, interesting, I believe I can't remember where I

614
00:35:30,079 --> 00:35:32,199
was reading about this, but it was a while back,

615
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,519
but about fifty years before the expulsion in fourteen ninety two.

616
00:35:36,599 --> 00:35:38,519
It was in the fourteen hundred some time in Spain.

617
00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:41,960
The Jewish communities there that were under the power of

618
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,079
the Christians, they actually requested and received permission to do

619
00:35:46,119 --> 00:35:48,519
an inquisition of their own against their own people who

620
00:35:48,679 --> 00:35:50,920
were falling away and doing things, you know, and that

621
00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:53,360
was allowed, and so you know, this was just kind

622
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,159
of it was the way they tried to solve a

623
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,159
very difficult problem back then. And you know, I'm sure,

624
00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:01,440
look there were probably people who got caught up in

625
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,119
it who didn't deserve it. But as you said, I mean,

626
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:05,960
when you want to talk about the scale of it,

627
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,440
you're talking about a few thousand people being you know,

628
00:36:08,519 --> 00:36:10,800
being executed over the course of a few hundred years.

629
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,880
And not to downplay that. If that was you know,

630
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,960
me or my mother or something, you know, it would

631
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,400
be a big deal to me obviously, But when you

632
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,119
start comparing it to you know, just the mass casualty

633
00:36:21,159 --> 00:36:23,000
events that we start to see as time goes on,

634
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,039
it really doesn't compare.

635
00:36:24,639 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, And in the fourteen twenties, about seventy years before before,

636
00:36:29,079 --> 00:36:35,639
you had the Disputation of Tortosa, which was basically Jews

637
00:36:35,679 --> 00:36:40,800
and Christians coming together having a conversation talking about their beliefs,

638
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,679
and there was a lot of conversions over that actually,

639
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,320
and it was very it was very civil. This was

640
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,719
when Spain was starting, you know, at almost at that

641
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,639
point they'd gotten back most of the country, they just

642
00:36:52,679 --> 00:36:56,480
hadn't had it all, and they had this disputation disputation.

643
00:36:56,639 --> 00:36:59,079
I did an episode on it with Paul Fahrenheit. It

644
00:36:59,159 --> 00:37:01,480
was really good. I think people should go check it out.

645
00:37:01,519 --> 00:37:04,360
In the Spain Golden Age of Spain series that we're

646
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,320
in the process of still doing this sort of like you,

647
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,400
it's taken we're doing twelve episodes. It's taken us over

648
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,239
a year. But all right, so let's let's come forward

649
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,559
a little bit. Okay, So let's come forward to you

650
00:37:20,599 --> 00:37:24,800
know what what I've been reading and what I was

651
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,920
studying recently was, and I know you've already done the

652
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:34,239
whole history of with fear and loathing. So when Zionism

653
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,559
is really taking hold in the Unit, it seems like

654
00:37:38,599 --> 00:37:42,840
it's really important for Jews who have embraced Zionism in

655
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,920
the West to influence their countries as much as they

656
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:53,320
can to try to support this project. So in the

657
00:37:53,400 --> 00:38:01,400
nineteen tens, Lewis brandeice Is they're they're apparently Wilson wanted

658
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,639
to have a He's getting pushed to have a Jewish

659
00:38:06,039 --> 00:38:11,039
Supreme Court justice the first one, so Brandeis Is chosen

660
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:14,719
Louis Brandeis. I actually read a Philip Weis's article Mondo

661
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,039
Wis's article claiming that he wasn't even a Zionist before

662
00:38:18,079 --> 00:38:20,920
that he actually became a Zionist because it was like

663
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,440
a prerequisite and then he just embraced it fully. But

664
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,639
then you have something like the Parisham, which is a

665
00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:36,079
secret society based in universities where Jews and Gentiles are

666
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:42,079
taking secret oaths to their over their families, over their

667
00:38:42,119 --> 00:38:45,440
countries that they are going to do everything that they

668
00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:51,320
possibly can so that they can push the United States

669
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:57,960
to push for a Palestinian homeland for the Jewish people,

670
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:04,840
to the point where where Brandeis does get appointed to

671
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,480
the Supreme Court, he is a part of this secret

672
00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:11,360
society with Felix Frankfurter or another Jew who will be

673
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:16,760
elected to the Supreme Court as well. But basically, when

674
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,639
we've heard this story about how when the Balfour Declaration

675
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,639
was drawn up, it had been years they had been

676
00:39:26,679 --> 00:39:29,519
drawing this, like three paragraphs. They had been working on

677
00:39:29,559 --> 00:39:32,639
this for a couple of years. When it is drawn up,

678
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,800
we get this story that, oh, well, you know, Colonel

679
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:42,840
House is there and he's pushing because he's friendly and

680
00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:49,960
aligned with the Zionists in Britain. The whole story is

681
00:39:50,079 --> 00:39:52,519
get us into it, We'll give you this Balfour Declaration

682
00:39:52,519 --> 00:39:54,280
if you get the United States to join into the

683
00:39:54,280 --> 00:40:00,119
war into World War One. And apparently from other books,

684
00:40:00,159 --> 00:40:03,280
and you know, I've done the research on this. I've

685
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,239
I've read books of people who have been in the archives.

686
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,199
As you know, Douglas Murray would say, have you been

687
00:40:10,199 --> 00:40:14,719
in the archives? And Brandeis was one of the people

688
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,400
who went to Wilson and said, you know, we need

689
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:20,920
to get in this war and we need to help

690
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,559
save save Europe.

691
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 2: So well, and you also had you had Zionists like

692
00:40:27,559 --> 00:40:29,679
Kaim Weizman, who was kind of the leader of the

693
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,639
movement at the time you lived in in England, and

694
00:40:33,679 --> 00:40:36,440
he was rubbing shoulders with people like Balfour, you know,

695
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:41,039
Lord belfour and uh yeah. They openly were telling them,

696
00:40:41,119 --> 00:40:43,079
you know, if you if you do this for us,

697
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,199
and this is in standard histories, it's not some conspiracy theory.

698
00:40:47,199 --> 00:40:49,719
They were telling them that if you do this for us,

699
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,840
then we'll use all the influence and power that we

700
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,800
have in the United States to help make sure America

701
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,920
has drawn into the war. You know what the what

702
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,239
the standard histories will say. And I think this is

703
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,559
probably this is probably at least partly justified, is that

704
00:41:04,639 --> 00:41:08,239
they were kind of overplaying their influence a little bit.

705
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,599
You know, this is not post nineteen sixty seven like

706
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,960
Jewish America. You know, they the mass migration to Jews

707
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,679
that only started forty years before, thirty years before really

708
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,320
at this point, and you know, the level of influence

709
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,599
they had was growing, for sure, but it wasn't it

710
00:41:26,639 --> 00:41:29,119
wasn't overwhelming by any means. But you know, you had

711
00:41:29,199 --> 00:41:32,280
guys like Louis Brandeis, and you know, it's interesting because

712
00:41:32,639 --> 00:41:36,840
Zionism was a minority was a minority movement among Jews

713
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,840
in the United States until the nineteen thirties, and it

714
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,039
was you know, and it was for reasons that you're

715
00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:47,559
really seeing kind of manifest today like in the modern day.

716
00:41:47,639 --> 00:41:49,519
Is like the question that other well a lot of

717
00:41:49,519 --> 00:41:51,440
them were just communists, and so they didn't like the

718
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,519
idea of Jewish nationalism anymore than any other kind, you know,

719
00:41:54,599 --> 00:41:57,199
and they they didn't want to go that direction. But

720
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,400
also there was just a more a question that asked

721
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,440
more in good faith and goodwill, which was, you know,

722
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:08,360
once there's a Jewish state, once to stop the people

723
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,159
in these countries that were living in from saying sounds

724
00:42:12,159 --> 00:42:13,880
like you got a country to go to, buddy, you know,

725
00:42:14,039 --> 00:42:16,760
like why don't you go there, or starting to look

726
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,719
at us as if we're fifth columnists for this foreign state,

727
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,679
you know, or starting to hold us collectively responsible for

728
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,679
this Jewish state doing the kinds of things that states do,

729
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,039
you know. And this was a fear that they had,

730
00:42:29,039 --> 00:42:31,000
and it kept a lot of American Jews from being

731
00:42:31,039 --> 00:42:33,880
from being Zionists up up until the thirties.

732
00:42:35,559 --> 00:42:38,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you have that kind of influence. You also

733
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,360
have the boats full of Jews that are coming to

734
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,800
the United States at the when World War Two is

735
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:52,440
breaking out, and famously, and this is well documented, Zionists

736
00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:56,320
went to Roosevelt and said, no, turn them back. They

737
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,800
either they either go to Palestine or they go back. So,

738
00:43:04,119 --> 00:43:09,079
I guess what the question comes down to. And we

739
00:43:09,199 --> 00:43:11,199
can bring this up to the up to the modern

740
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,840
day because you know what we're seeing and you know

741
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,119
something you've already said post nineteen sixty seven, we're living

742
00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:23,440
in Jewish America. Is it good for us? Is it?

743
00:43:23,639 --> 00:43:28,559
How has this been good for us? Is this having

744
00:43:28,679 --> 00:43:33,960
this group who eventually do get their country In nineteen

745
00:43:34,039 --> 00:43:41,199
forty eight, through means that are terroristic. Monoco Bagan famously says,

746
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,639
we brought terrorism to the Middle East, and then and

747
00:43:45,679 --> 00:43:47,400
then he goes and not only the Middle East, to

748
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:54,119
the world stern gang Irgun Hagana, all these groups they

749
00:43:54,159 --> 00:43:58,199
get their own country, and then, like you said, okay,

750
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,519
there's a lot of Jews that are not going to

751
00:44:00,599 --> 00:44:02,679
go there. They're not going to want to go there,

752
00:44:03,039 --> 00:44:08,079
so they stay in the United States, they stay in Europe.

753
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:13,000
And not only are so you have them in this

754
00:44:13,079 --> 00:44:16,239
country now of their own country over here, but then

755
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,239
you have them working. You have them in this country

756
00:44:21,199 --> 00:44:27,199
and in the West. Basically after World War Two, it

757
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,880
would seem especially if you look at the Nuremberg Trials

758
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,599
and the people who are behind that, all the thought

759
00:44:32,679 --> 00:44:41,280
leaders behind West Germany and the Allies. Basically it's Jewish power.

760
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,440
So they not only got there, it seems like they

761
00:44:44,519 --> 00:44:47,559
not only got their country, but they also got ours.

762
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,480
So it's like, okay, how am I you know, the

763
00:44:52,599 --> 00:44:55,280
question needs to be all right, here's a new Jewish question.

764
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,599
How is this good for us? As you know, I mean,

765
00:45:00,679 --> 00:45:06,320
I'm not a wasp, but I mean I'm this is

766
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,559
the only country I know It's the only thing. The

767
00:45:08,599 --> 00:45:11,760
only place I feel like this is I feel like

768
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,239
an American. I live in the South. I chose to

769
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,480
live in the South because I feel like this is America.

770
00:45:17,159 --> 00:45:21,480
And I'm like, well, I'm watching Ted Kruz talk about

771
00:45:21,519 --> 00:45:24,840
how the my main goal to go into the going

772
00:45:25,079 --> 00:45:27,760
to get elected was to be the number one representative

773
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:32,000
for Israel. I watch Benjamin net Yahoo come and get

774
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:40,360
his chair pushed in. I watch Trump bombing. How well?

775
00:45:42,199 --> 00:45:44,960
I have a new Jewish question? Is this good? How

776
00:45:45,039 --> 00:45:47,800
is this good for me? How is this? How is

777
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:48,239
this good?

778
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: I don't think the Pete kenyone shows audience probably needs

779
00:45:53,079 --> 00:45:56,400
much convincing on that point. I mean, it's look, it's

780
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,360
never good to You're gonna have minority government one way

781
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,480
or another, no matter again, just go back to elite theory,

782
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,679
no matter what the question, is there any sense of

783
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,599
like attachment to the people that they're ruling, a sense

784
00:46:07,639 --> 00:46:10,840
of no bless oblize or anything like that. And when

785
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,800
you when you have people wilding a tremendous amount of power,

786
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:19,159
who uh, who are not just I mean, it's not

787
00:46:19,199 --> 00:46:24,920
even you know, it's not even you know, like if

788
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,079
it was if it was the Jewish mob, you would

789
00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:31,159
almost be better off because they're just trying to extract

790
00:46:31,199 --> 00:46:33,960
resources and get what they can get and you know,

791
00:46:34,119 --> 00:46:36,639
take advantage of the system for their own ends or whatever.

792
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: I've said, I would rather live in a I would

793
00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:41,960
rather I've said this in the past. I've given interview

794
00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:44,039
saying this in the past. I would rather live in

795
00:46:44,079 --> 00:46:49,159
an Italian mob neighborhood that's that's governed by the Italian

796
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,159
mob than this government.

797
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, because there's not like a there. You don't have

798
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,440
like a deep seated hostility to the society that you

799
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,239
know that you're that you're ruling. I mean, you know,

800
00:47:01,519 --> 00:47:04,920
and that's something that you know. I've made the point

801
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,840
many times, and I'm certainly not the first one to

802
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,679
do this, but that when you think about the Jewish

803
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,039
question in Europe, is very useful to look at other

804
00:47:13,119 --> 00:47:15,480
sort of commercial minorities in other parts of the world,

805
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,119
whether the overseas Chinese, the Indians in East Africa, the Lebanese,

806
00:47:19,119 --> 00:47:22,199
and like South and Central America. These are groups of

807
00:47:22,199 --> 00:47:26,159
people who were outsiders who came in as minorities, did

808
00:47:26,199 --> 00:47:28,000
a lot of the same things that Jews do. You know,

809
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:32,159
they were the merchants engaged in trade things like that,

810
00:47:32,199 --> 00:47:34,960
and became very prosperous, especially later on when the global

811
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,679
economy started picking up. They became the people who ran everything.

812
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,400
You go, you know, all the way up into the

813
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,840
two thousands, and I think it's probably still like this.

814
00:47:43,639 --> 00:47:45,360
The last book I read about it was written in

815
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,920
like twenty ten, but pretty sure it's all still like this.

816
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,239
You go to like Indonesia, the Philippines, all the airlines,

817
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,880
all the conglomerates, all of those are owned by the

818
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,320
tiny minority of Chinese people who live in those countries,

819
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,480
and there's a lot of resentment from the local population

820
00:47:59,559 --> 00:48:03,440
who see that. You know, there's a lot of locals

821
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,599
who work as servants for the overseas Chinese. There are

822
00:48:06,639 --> 00:48:09,800
no Chinese people working for as servants for you know,

823
00:48:10,119 --> 00:48:13,039
local wealthy Peo. It just doesn't happen. And so, you know,

824
00:48:13,079 --> 00:48:15,800
you have these countries that are relatively poor and starting

825
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:17,880
to try to develop, and they see this minority that

826
00:48:18,039 --> 00:48:20,480
owns everything and is cozied up to the rulers of

827
00:48:20,519 --> 00:48:23,320
the country because they provide benefits to each other and protection,

828
00:48:25,079 --> 00:48:28,239
and you know, and you start, you know, they talk

829
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,280
about like the overseas Chinese and the Indians in East Africa,

830
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,639
and the same terms you're familiar with from like European

831
00:48:34,679 --> 00:48:40,960
anti Semitism. You know, they're greedy, they're materialistic, they're Planish,

832
00:48:41,119 --> 00:48:45,159
and you know, sort of off putting to other people

833
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,079
with their manners and the way they behave all these

834
00:48:47,119 --> 00:48:48,519
kind of things that you're just kind of used to,

835
00:48:48,599 --> 00:48:51,800
and so in that sense, like it's a phenomenon that

836
00:48:52,079 --> 00:48:55,440
is not particularly unique. But the difference, you know, in

837
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,719
the European Jewish context is that you have like the

838
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,920
overseas Chinese, like they might look down on the local

839
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,840
Filipinos or Indonesians, you know, or something like they might

840
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,960
think they're more sophisticated, and they are. They're just but

841
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,599
they don't have like any kind of a deep seated

842
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,239
like hatred or resentment of them. You know, it's not

843
00:49:13,679 --> 00:49:15,679
something it's just they just don't think of it that way.

844
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,679
Whereas you know, people can talk about today being like

845
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,280
a different situation, and I think it is to a degree,

846
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,320
but you go through like most of European history, you know,

847
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,960
they weren't just living in a random It wasn't like

848
00:49:30,079 --> 00:49:32,480
the overseas Chinese who decided to go to the Philippines

849
00:49:32,519 --> 00:49:34,960
and set up shop there to like run businesses. These

850
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,760
were people who were forced to live under the power

851
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:44,000
and in the countries of people who were the religious

852
00:49:44,039 --> 00:49:48,039
descendants of a heretic that they had executed, you know,

853
00:49:48,199 --> 00:49:51,440
for high trees and in heresy that you know, and

854
00:49:51,519 --> 00:49:54,880
his followers then went on to build the greatest civilization

855
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,400
and the history of the world that the Jews themselves

856
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,320
are now having to like pick up table scraps fall

857
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,239
down in order to make their way in the world.

858
00:50:02,639 --> 00:50:05,079
And that's something that like, I mean you see it

859
00:50:05,199 --> 00:50:08,639
in certain passages in the town lived, but also just

860
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:12,639
Jewish writings like in general, like you see like that

861
00:50:12,679 --> 00:50:17,719
there's a deep seated sort of like it's sort of like, uh,

862
00:50:18,159 --> 00:50:21,760
you know, I've always found interesting, right, Like if you uh,

863
00:50:22,159 --> 00:50:26,760
if you would read like pre Civil rights era, if

864
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:32,039
you would read African American activist writers from the south

865
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:36,199
right who lived under Jim Crow, all the you know,

866
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,039
anti racist this is unjust all those other kind of things,

867
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:43,679
but you don't detect the really hostile, violent like anti

868
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,519
white hatred that you start to get later on from

869
00:50:47,679 --> 00:50:49,880
the northern cities and especially from the people who are

870
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,079
educated in the universities, you know, and it's because like

871
00:50:53,159 --> 00:50:57,039
those people like who you know, you you you go

872
00:50:57,119 --> 00:51:00,360
to Harvard, you're a first generation you know, ever in

873
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,639
the history of your entire lineage to you know, go

874
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:07,599
beyond sixth grade and now you're at Harvard or Columbia

875
00:51:07,639 --> 00:51:11,559
because you know, they instituted lower standards to try to

876
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,000
get the number of people you know, from your group

877
00:51:14,039 --> 00:51:16,440
in there. And you get there and it is way

878
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,679
too hard for you, and the people there, even when

879
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,599
they're really nice to you, you suspect that they're really

880
00:51:22,679 --> 00:51:26,800
kind of patronizing you and like they're just you start

881
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,920
to get this sense of a wounded pride that you

882
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,079
didn't have when, you know, from the people who were

883
00:51:32,079 --> 00:51:33,760
just down at the bottom and they were the lower

884
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,280
caste in society. And so you know, because what was

885
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,440
happening is, you know, you have a group of people

886
00:51:39,519 --> 00:51:41,920
and this this happened very much with the Jews in

887
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:48,039
especially the Paliest settlement Jews, because the Jewish emancipation there

888
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:50,920
happened so much later, you know, and so European society

889
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,280
had had more time to kind of develop that. Like

890
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,559
when Jewish emancipation started to kick off in you know,

891
00:51:56,639 --> 00:52:00,719
in Western Europe back in the seventeen hundreds, we were

892
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,760
starting to develop, you know, but they weren't exactly leaving

893
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:08,480
their villages and walking out and seeing this spectacular civilization

894
00:52:08,599 --> 00:52:10,840
that like overawes and almost shames them.

895
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:11,119
Speaker 3: You know.

896
00:52:11,599 --> 00:52:13,599
Speaker 2: By the time you get up to like the later period,

897
00:52:13,679 --> 00:52:16,280
you have these people coming out of the shattles and

898
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,320
encountering there's you know, there's no other way to put it.

899
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,000
In fact, a Jewish writer, I can't remember, maybe Milton

900
00:52:23,079 --> 00:52:25,920
Himmel far but it was a Jewish writer who put it.

901
00:52:26,679 --> 00:52:30,920
A lot of the the problems they started to arise

902
00:52:31,119 --> 00:52:34,639
came out of this confrontation of the newly emancipated Jews

903
00:52:35,519 --> 00:52:38,840
with a superior, a clearly superior civilization, you know, and

904
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,480
they would go out into it. You know, like I

905
00:52:41,519 --> 00:52:44,440
grew up in the street, Like I grew up really poor,

906
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,239
mostly in ghettos and barrios and stuff, really poor. And

907
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,320
so like today, every once in a while now that

908
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,719
i'm you know, a podcaster and whatever, like I'll get

909
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,920
invited to like a conference right somebody's putting on. When

910
00:52:56,039 --> 00:52:58,440
Claremont used to invite me to these things, they don't anymore,

911
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,280
but like when they did, they'd bring me right. And

912
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,840
it's all the stuff where like you have seven forks

913
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,440
and fourteen spoons and all that kind of stuff, you know.

914
00:53:06,159 --> 00:53:09,239
And I get there and even though I'm you know,

915
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,800
I might have the highest IQ of anybody at my table,

916
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,719
I might you know, have done more interesting things in

917
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,440
my life than a maybe maybe all that's true, I

918
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,599
still feel this sense of like I don't belong here,

919
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:22,800
and that like I you know, I feel out of

920
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,960
place and sort of self conscious. And that's just I

921
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,800
think that's kind of a normal thing. Now if you

922
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,440
take that and say, okay, but that's not an event

923
00:53:31,519 --> 00:53:34,920
you're going to. That's the world you live in. Every

924
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:39,400
day you're in, you encounter a society that is clearly

925
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:43,559
more refined and more advanced, uh than you're sort of

926
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:47,320
then you're competent to operate in successfully, you know, and

927
00:53:47,679 --> 00:53:51,599
you start you you you run into the you know,

928
00:53:51,639 --> 00:53:55,400
to these problems where you're sort of you know, your

929
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,559
your uh, your lack of ritual competence to put it

930
00:53:59,599 --> 00:54:03,039
in like an Irving Goffman, you know, sociological framework, your

931
00:54:03,119 --> 00:54:05,920
lack of ritual competence, you know, and by ritual, I

932
00:54:06,039 --> 00:54:09,159
just mean like the little ways that like we are

933
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:11,559
able to the little things that we do on a

934
00:54:11,599 --> 00:54:15,920
daily basis that make that grease the skids, the social skids,

935
00:54:16,039 --> 00:54:18,440
Like in an urban world where we have to be

936
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,880
confronted with and deal with strangers all the time, you know,

937
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,400
there's just little rituals of how we make sure that

938
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,400
we respect the others dignity properly and we don't offend

939
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,079
and do certain things. And if you come from you know,

940
00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:32,400
if you're like the Beverly Hillbillies and you go out

941
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,960
to Beverly Hills, like that's a comedic show. But the

942
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,880
reality is we have sort of examples like that. My

943
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,480
father's side were Okie's who came out from Oklahoma and

944
00:54:40,519 --> 00:54:44,719
Alabama and they came out and you know, everybody who

945
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,079
knows the history of the Okis who came out to California,

946
00:54:47,159 --> 00:54:49,480
Like it was a tough transition, man, because you had

947
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,000
these people coming from the country and coming into places

948
00:54:53,039 --> 00:54:55,719
that look down on them that they were really not

949
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,679
sort of knowledgeable enough or competent enough to operate in

950
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,239
these society successfully. And they were able to assimilate, but

951
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:03,960
it took a generation or two. You know, even when

952
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,800
I was a kid, when we would live and you know,

953
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,079
a lot of my uh friends who you know, were

954
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,480
sort of from the same same lineage, you know, that

955
00:55:13,559 --> 00:55:16,880
Oaki lineage. Like one of the things that our parents

956
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:18,800
would say when we would act up or just be

957
00:55:19,039 --> 00:55:21,519
you know, get start start acting a fools, they'd say,

958
00:55:21,519 --> 00:55:25,000
stop acting like a little Oakie, you know. And that

959
00:55:25,159 --> 00:55:27,000
was something that they were very conscious of, even a

960
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:31,039
couple of generations on at this point. And so when

961
00:55:31,079 --> 00:55:33,440
that happens and in a you know, to a people

962
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:38,400
who to a people who have this uh, this strange

963
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:41,920
you know, this is sort of like the narcissists in

964
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:45,639
an individual psychological sense. It's the narcissist dilemma, where you know,

965
00:55:46,639 --> 00:55:53,159
narcissism is essentially defined by a personality that feels inferior

966
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,239
to all the people around them, and yet on some

967
00:55:56,519 --> 00:56:01,199
level knows, whether intellectually or emotional whatever, that they're actually

968
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,920
superior to all the people around them. And so that

969
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:08,760
feeling of superiority that's constantly rebuffed and constantly sort of

970
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:11,800
sent back by your encounters with the real world. That's

971
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,280
like the narcissist. That's the core problem of like the

972
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,480
narcissistic personality. And so when you have like you know,

973
00:56:17,599 --> 00:56:21,400
you're the chosen people, you're going out into a society

974
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,599
that is that has been constructed by people of a

975
00:56:26,679 --> 00:56:31,199
faith that you that your whole cultural and religious identity

976
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:33,519
is really base like the rejection of it is like

977
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:39,840
what your cultural identity is, you know, and recognizing every

978
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,000
day that yeah, we're the chosen people. This is our

979
00:56:43,039 --> 00:56:44,920
world and they're just living in it. But you look

980
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,719
around and you realize that clearly, like this is a

981
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,599
superior civilization, and I feel like a yokl every time

982
00:56:50,599 --> 00:56:52,920
I go outside, and it creates you know, it can

983
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,599
create a sense of real resentment. And so you know,

984
00:56:56,599 --> 00:56:58,800
when you take people who who kind of have that

985
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:03,000
neurosis built in and you put them in charge of

986
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,199
the you see this. Look, this goes back all the

987
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,199
way you talk about like in Spain, but there are

988
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:11,000
examples like in the Middle East and North Africa where

989
00:57:11,079 --> 00:57:13,280
the Muslims would come in and conquer and the Jews

990
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,719
would support them, and they would put Jews in charge

991
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,280
of like various areas. They would work as police, they

992
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,960
would work as you know, various things. There were several

993
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,360
examples where the Muslims had to come in and like

994
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,400
tell the Jews like, you guys are out of you

995
00:57:26,599 --> 00:57:28,360
got to cool it, Like you guys are making it

996
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,719
impossible to manage these Christians because you're just brutalizing them

997
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:33,440
so much, Like that's not what we're trying to do.

998
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:35,440
And it's not like they were doing that out of

999
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,119
like humanitarian concern. It was just they were trying to

1000
00:57:38,159 --> 00:57:41,559
manage a budding empire. And so you know, that's a

1001
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,920
that's a problem that it goes back very very far,

1002
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,519
and you know, and it's one I think that persists

1003
00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:50,599
to this day. And again, like it's not something you

1004
00:57:50,639 --> 00:57:54,039
want to you know, it's a lot harder these days

1005
00:57:54,079 --> 00:57:57,599
to even really you know. Shlomo sam makes the point

1006
00:57:57,639 --> 00:58:00,679
that like you know, he says, like if tell me

1007
00:58:00,719 --> 00:58:03,679
what a Jew is, like what is a Jew? And

1008
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,559
his answer is a Jew is a religious person who

1009
00:58:06,599 --> 00:58:10,119
practices Judaism. Because other than that, like tell me a

1010
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:13,559
thing that you can say about Jews that applies to

1011
00:58:13,639 --> 00:58:17,199
all Jews. There's you cannot find them. Like there's atheist Jews,

1012
00:58:17,239 --> 00:58:20,559
there's religious Jews, there's Zionist Jews, there's anti Zionist Jews.

1013
00:58:20,559 --> 00:58:23,920
There's black Jews, there's white Jews. Just like you can't

1014
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,119
tell me anything that just is a characteristic that you

1015
00:58:27,159 --> 00:58:29,199
can say, this is a group of a coherent group

1016
00:58:29,239 --> 00:58:31,960
of people that you can describe as such. And so

1017
00:58:32,119 --> 00:58:34,480
it's it's hard to even do that these days, and

1018
00:58:34,519 --> 00:58:37,119
so you don't want to, like, you know, when you

1019
00:58:37,159 --> 00:58:41,079
say the Jews that meant something throughout most of history

1020
00:58:41,119 --> 00:58:43,239
that today is like a little bit more nuanced, you know,

1021
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,480
And so you don't want to when we talk about

1022
00:58:46,519 --> 00:58:49,599
these things. You know, it's it's always important to sort

1023
00:58:49,599 --> 00:58:52,599
of remember, and I try to always keep this in

1024
00:58:52,679 --> 00:58:55,159
mind and make sure other people do when they're listening

1025
00:58:55,199 --> 00:58:59,480
to me, that you know, really what we're talking about,

1026
00:58:59,559 --> 00:59:04,000
we're not talking about We're not talking about Jewish people. Obviously,

1027
00:59:04,079 --> 00:59:06,159
everything is you know, at the bottom of it, there

1028
00:59:06,159 --> 00:59:10,079
are people. We're talking about organized Jewish power like and

1029
00:59:10,159 --> 00:59:13,679
that is a social and political phenomenon. That is that

1030
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:17,599
your your neighbor, you know, who's an accountant down the

1031
00:59:17,599 --> 00:59:20,039
hall like may or may not have anything to do

1032
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:24,159
like It's just what we're talking about is like a

1033
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:28,079
corporate entity that is highly organized. I mean, you have

1034
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,480
like an organization like the Council of Presidents of major

1035
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:35,760
American Jewish organizations that it's like two hundred, two hundred

1036
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:40,960
and fifty organizations that have endowments and annual incomes of tens,

1037
00:59:41,079 --> 00:59:43,719
probably hundreds of billions of dollars. And they get together

1038
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:46,639
twice a year, the heads of all these organizations. There,

1039
00:59:46,639 --> 00:59:52,840
religious organizations, you know, Zionist organizations, just Jewish charities, the ADL,

1040
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,079
the APAC, just all these kind of things, and a

1041
00:59:55,079 --> 00:59:57,840
bunch you've never heard of. They get together just to

1042
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,280
make sure that they're all on the same page, that

1043
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:04,599
they're not spending resources in ways that are redundant and overlapping,

1044
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,880
so that everybody knows like what this year's priorities are,

1045
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,719
and we're all kind of pushing toward this, and you know,

1046
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:15,039
that's just a that's a that's when you have a

1047
01:00:15,039 --> 01:00:21,360
society like ours that is based theoretically on individualist democracy,

1048
01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:24,400
you know, where everybody sort of listens to the guy

1049
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,280
give his stump speech, and you know, I vote my

1050
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:29,800
conscience and decide whether I agree or not, and that's

1051
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:32,760
kind of the liberal ideal, you know. And then you

1052
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:35,719
have like a group of people that is very tightly

1053
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:39,719
organized that is acting as a group to you know,

1054
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,079
benefit themselves, to influence the system and ways that benefit

1055
01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:46,280
their group, to attack their enemies. You know, Americans have

1056
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:51,800
always been like very very wary of secret societies and

1057
01:00:52,159 --> 01:00:54,440
of you know, we we spend a lot of time

1058
01:00:54,519 --> 01:00:57,599
kind of breaking down the extended family connection of like

1059
01:00:58,639 --> 01:01:01,880
Mediterranean and other like European immigrants who came from places

1060
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,480
with like strong extended families, because we just have always

1061
01:01:04,559 --> 01:01:07,280
looked at that as like kind of it's like it's

1062
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,480
sort of an anti liberal, anti democratic, you know, thing

1063
01:01:10,519 --> 01:01:12,599
that can really kind of poison the way the system

1064
01:01:12,679 --> 01:01:15,920
works because when one group of people in a system

1065
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:19,360
that is comprised of individuals, when one group of people

1066
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,679
starts banding together, well now everybody kind of has to

1067
01:01:22,719 --> 01:01:25,280
do that just to compete and stay afloat, and it

1068
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:28,840
sort of spoils the you know, spoiled the punch. And

1069
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,400
so you know, it's a it's a tough thing to

1070
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:36,800
do because you know, if you take somebody like I

1071
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,119
don't know, you probably know people in your personal life.

1072
01:01:39,159 --> 01:01:42,719
I do take somebody like Sam Harris, right, who his

1073
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,960
parents are Jewish as far as I know, But you know,

1074
01:01:46,119 --> 01:01:48,280
in what way is Sam Harris Jewish. I mean, he probably,

1075
01:01:48,519 --> 01:01:51,920
like him being Jewish probably does not play like an

1076
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,519
operative role in his identity, like on a daily basis.

1077
01:01:55,559 --> 01:01:58,360
Like ever, I doubt maybe a little more now because

1078
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:00,360
it's more of a thing that's in the news whatever.

1079
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:02,280
But like you go back ten years, he probably like

1080
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:04,880
it's just not how he thought of himself. If you

1081
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,320
were to pluck him out of modern America and put

1082
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:11,599
him in, you know, in Munich in nineteen thirty four,

1083
01:02:12,119 --> 01:02:14,440
he would feel very Jewish very quickly, you know. And

1084
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,840
it's because, you know, these things start to play off

1085
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:21,440
each other, and you get this sort of this self

1086
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:28,400
fulfilling cycle where you know, the separation invites distrust, and

1087
01:02:28,119 --> 01:02:32,239
the distrust sort of hardens the boundaries of separation and

1088
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:36,679
so forth, you know, And so it's you know, and eventually,

1089
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,280
you know, when that starts happening and people start talking

1090
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:41,960
about this stuff, especially in a sloppy way, what it

1091
01:02:42,039 --> 01:02:44,920
ends up doing is it pulls people who might just

1092
01:02:45,039 --> 01:02:47,920
be that dude who happens to have Jewish parents and

1093
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:49,960
never thinks about this stuff, to all of a sudden

1094
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,360
now having to clian up with his people, you know

1095
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:56,039
what I mean, just kind of because that's where that's

1096
01:02:56,079 --> 01:03:00,000
where the society's driving them. And so you know, it's

1097
01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:03,039
I think it's hard for for people who are on

1098
01:03:03,079 --> 01:03:06,800
the on the right like we are, you know, on

1099
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:10,320
the on the say passed you know, beyond republican right,

1100
01:03:11,239 --> 01:03:15,119
where on one level, like we're comfortable with with with

1101
01:03:15,239 --> 01:03:18,079
different groups having group identities and self interest of their

1102
01:03:18,119 --> 01:03:20,239
own and we all kind of think that that's how

1103
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:23,800
people ought to operate, you know, what the boundaries of

1104
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:26,880
the of the of the groups ought to be, and

1105
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,119
you know, how they should be defined and whatever those

1106
01:03:29,159 --> 01:03:32,519
can be up for up for negotiation. But you know,

1107
01:03:32,639 --> 01:03:34,559
on our side of the right, people are generally pretty

1108
01:03:34,559 --> 01:03:38,760
comfortable with that. But the thing is, like it's you know,

1109
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:41,960
any any attempt by other groups to do that or

1110
01:03:42,199 --> 01:03:44,639
well groups of white people, different groups of white people

1111
01:03:44,679 --> 01:03:47,719
and Christians to do that are really attacked with the

1112
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:50,360
full course of the state and the system in general,

1113
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:53,800
you know, and so there's a there's an incongruity there

1114
01:03:54,000 --> 01:04:00,360
that just inevitably invites the development of hostility between you know,

1115
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:05,159
between groups. And again, like it's it's also tough because

1116
01:04:05,159 --> 01:04:07,039
it's like what you said, I mean, there's a there's

1117
01:04:07,079 --> 01:04:09,920
a certain way in which Zionism, which is like the

1118
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:14,320
predominant Jewish religion in twenty twenty five, I think, you know,

1119
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:19,679
really is Zionism. There's a way in which Zionism really

1120
01:04:20,039 --> 01:04:22,519
needs anti Semitism. It feeds off of it, you know,

1121
01:04:22,639 --> 01:04:26,840
I mean when you know, you read things like about

1122
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:29,519
how the young Israeli government in nineteen forty eight had

1123
01:04:29,559 --> 01:04:32,960
agents setting bombs in Jewish centers and synagogues in Baghdad

1124
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:36,079
to frighten the Jews there and get them to flee

1125
01:04:36,119 --> 01:04:38,400
to Israel. Like you kind of see that. You know,

1126
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:42,480
if you want every Jew in the world to move

1127
01:04:42,519 --> 01:04:45,880
to Israel, then the last thing you want is for

1128
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:47,960
the world to be a welcoming place for the Jews,

1129
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,039
you know. And so there's a lot of these things

1130
01:04:50,039 --> 01:04:51,719
that kind of feed off each other and make a

1131
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:55,280
solution to the problem like very difficult.

1132
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 1: Well what you're describing is I mean, well, okay, let's

1133
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:01,760
let's take a look around the landscape. We have laws

1134
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:07,480
popping up that are anti Semitism. Laws talk of stripping

1135
01:05:07,519 --> 01:05:13,079
people's citizenship if they and they're not I haven't heard,

1136
01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:17,119
I've heard citizenship, which means your family could have been

1137
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:25,119
Mayflower in that case, and you see people. When you

1138
01:05:25,159 --> 01:05:28,920
see one group that is exercising so much power, then

1139
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:31,679
it's like, oh, okay, that's how they did it. They

1140
01:05:31,719 --> 01:05:36,239
came together. So then eventually other groups are going to

1141
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:41,159
come together and they're going to not only seek to

1142
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:48,079
organize and seek to push back, but sometimes the pushback

1143
01:05:48,239 --> 01:05:51,159
is just like I'm sure you've heard this and you're

1144
01:05:51,199 --> 01:05:57,000
familiar with this troop. You're just jealous of our success? Well,

1145
01:05:58,239 --> 01:06:01,480
can we define some terms here? First of all, what

1146
01:06:01,599 --> 01:06:04,280
is jealousy mean? And second of all, what is success?

1147
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:09,400
Because I remember a like a secretary of State, an

1148
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:19,000
attorney general, a DHL basically Biden's. Biden's staff was sixty

1149
01:06:19,039 --> 01:06:23,719
to seventy percent Jewish. And then Doug M. Hoff, the

1150
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:27,760
first man, first dude, he put out a picture saying

1151
01:06:28,679 --> 01:06:30,639
here is just some of the four hundred and fifty

1152
01:06:30,679 --> 01:06:37,239
seven Jews working in the Biden White House. And I'm like, Okay,

1153
01:06:38,599 --> 01:06:42,320
what metric am What metrics of success am I supposed

1154
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:49,320
to be jealous of? Because people are telling me right

1155
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:51,920
wing Jews are telling me that Biden was the worst,

1156
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:56,599
he had to be voted out. Yet the whole White house,

1157
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:00,599
and like more than half of his happened to run

1158
01:07:00,599 --> 01:07:03,679
by Jews two percent of the population. By the way,

1159
01:07:04,239 --> 01:07:09,159
So how am I what exactly am I supposed money?

1160
01:07:09,559 --> 01:07:12,719
I've never been jealous of money. I mean, I've never

1161
01:07:12,719 --> 01:07:15,760
been jealous of success Asians. I have never had any

1162
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,519
problem with Asians. And I've never had any problem with

1163
01:07:18,599 --> 01:07:21,880
high IQ, with really really high IQ people like some

1164
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:23,760
of the Asians out there and even some of the

1165
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:26,480
Jews out there. I have a pretty high IQ myself.

1166
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,159
Never really been jealous of that, never been jealous of money,

1167
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,000
not really, not really that important to me. Security is

1168
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:33,760
a little more important. Money might be a part of that.

1169
01:07:34,079 --> 01:07:37,880
But when you have laws that are being passed, when

1170
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:40,000
you have people who are just saying, oh, you're just

1171
01:07:40,079 --> 01:07:43,559
you know, Jordan Peterson, You're you're just jealous because Jews

1172
01:07:43,559 --> 01:07:50,039
are so successful. I look at that, and really, my metric, yeah,

1173
01:07:50,159 --> 01:07:54,000
my metric of success is a lot different than most people.

1174
01:07:54,039 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 2: I mean, that's an answer that people give who don't

1175
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:57,719
want to actually have to give an answer, you know.

1176
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:02,519
I mean, for the issue, the reason this like this,

1177
01:08:02,519 --> 01:08:07,159
this issue again and again gained so much force is

1178
01:08:07,199 --> 01:08:09,519
that it has nothing to do with that. I mean,

1179
01:08:10,719 --> 01:08:12,320
what it has to do with is like there's a

1180
01:08:12,599 --> 01:08:15,840
it's almost it's like it has to do with a

1181
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:18,880
sense of honor in the sense that like your your

1182
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:22,000
sense of honor is offended when you know that your

1183
01:08:22,039 --> 01:08:26,600
country is serving the interests of people who are not you,

1184
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:28,720
who are who are you know, not your own So

1185
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:31,840
when people see, you know, the US government just being

1186
01:08:33,199 --> 01:08:36,720
so obsequious to Israel, I mean just to the point

1187
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:41,199
of where you almost think they're making fun of you.

1188
01:08:41,279 --> 01:08:45,239
I mean, when it's you know, you have like this,

1189
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:47,960
you saw that you mentioned Ted Cruz saying you went

1190
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:50,359
into the Senate because he wanted to be the number

1191
01:08:50,399 --> 01:08:52,359
one defender of Israel. That was why you went into

1192
01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:55,239
the Senate. You have that State Department spokesman not that

1193
01:08:55,359 --> 01:08:58,000
long ago that said America is the greatest country in

1194
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,319
the world, well except for Israel. You know, like that

1195
01:09:00,359 --> 01:09:02,680
woman should have been fired from her position at the

1196
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:05,000
State Department that day, Like how do you how do

1197
01:09:05,039 --> 01:09:08,359
you say something like that? And then you know, I

1198
01:09:08,399 --> 01:09:12,039
can't remember how many American politicians I heard call the

1199
01:09:12,079 --> 01:09:14,680
IDF the most moral army in the world, which, as

1200
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:18,600
a veteran, is incredibly offensive to me and totally untrue obviously,

1201
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,319
but just when you see things like that again again,

1202
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:26,319
you know, the people who are who these laws are

1203
01:09:26,319 --> 01:09:29,520
being passed to control, you know it just it's going

1204
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:31,960
to offend your basic sense of honor because you start

1205
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:35,279
to recognize that you don't have sovereignty, and that's what

1206
01:09:35,319 --> 01:09:37,479
people want back. They want back sovereignty. And if it

1207
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:42,439
were a question of like you know, look, Japanese Americans,

1208
01:09:43,119 --> 01:09:46,520
very successful group of people, very like well integrated group

1209
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:52,159
of people. Back in you know, back in the Second

1210
01:09:52,159 --> 01:09:54,319
World War era, there might have been a few, not

1211
01:09:54,399 --> 01:09:57,479
nearly as many as probably the more paranoid people thought

1212
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:00,800
that were that were still loyal, you know, ethnically to

1213
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:03,800
Japan or whatever. But in general that's not that's just

1214
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:07,319
not the case, certainly not today. These are American citizens

1215
01:10:07,319 --> 01:10:09,119
who are one hundred percent American, and if we went

1216
01:10:09,159 --> 01:10:11,479
to war with Japan, they'd fly the bombers over there.

1217
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,640
Like these are just you know, these American people. And

1218
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,279
if you have a group of people like that who

1219
01:10:17,319 --> 01:10:20,239
become very successful and just by all signs, you know,

1220
01:10:20,279 --> 01:10:22,720
they are not serving any interests other than the ones

1221
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:25,279
that you're aligned with. They care about the things you

1222
01:10:25,359 --> 01:10:29,279
care about. They are their primary point of reference for

1223
01:10:29,319 --> 01:10:32,760
their identity, and their future is the same as yours.

1224
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,800
This country, you know, then it's just a it's a

1225
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:37,800
people don't get upset about that. You can be as

1226
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:39,840
rich as you want. Nobody gets upset about you know.

1227
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:42,680
What people get upset about is when it becomes just

1228
01:10:43,399 --> 01:10:48,720
unavoidably obvious. Unavoidably obvious, you know, especially in the last

1229
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:50,680
couple of years, since the Gods that things been going

1230
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:53,720
on and really now, I mean, I mean, like you said,

1231
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:56,119
like the Times of Israel actually put out like a

1232
01:10:56,159 --> 01:10:59,640
celebratory article that listed all of the high officials in

1233
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:03,319
the Bible cabinet and his government that were Jewish, And

1234
01:11:03,359 --> 01:11:05,600
I mean it's like people, I think you're you know,

1235
01:11:06,039 --> 01:11:08,359
seventy percent. Like maybe it's a bunch of low level people,

1236
01:11:08,359 --> 01:11:10,680
it's like seventy percent of the cabinet. I mean it

1237
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:14,279
is like secretary of state, secretary, I mean, just everything

1238
01:11:14,359 --> 01:11:16,359
down the line. And the way to kind of think

1239
01:11:16,399 --> 01:11:19,319
of that I always ask people to think about it

1240
01:11:19,359 --> 01:11:23,119
is just imagine that those are all ethnic Chinese. You know,

1241
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:26,520
there's like roughly the same number of them as there

1242
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:28,800
are Jews in the country. Just Imagine seventy percent of

1243
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:33,279
Biden's cabinet was ethnically Chinese. Imagine that you're we're in

1244
01:11:33,319 --> 01:11:35,359
the run up to the Iraq war and you turn

1245
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:39,760
on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, and you have a panel

1246
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:41,720
of six people who are all telling you that we

1247
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:45,239
have to go over there and kill Saddam Hussein, and

1248
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,600
you know, or put it a different way, let's say

1249
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:51,640
that China's you know, we're talking about whether or not

1250
01:11:52,279 --> 01:11:54,720
we should support Taiwan against China, and you turn on

1251
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:57,279
all those channels and five out of the six people

1252
01:11:57,279 --> 01:11:59,199
on the panel or all ethnic Chinese saying, you know,

1253
01:11:59,199 --> 01:12:02,439
all we should abandoned Taiwan. People would notice that, and

1254
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:05,600
obviously they would. They'd be crazy not to, you know.

1255
01:12:06,279 --> 01:12:10,239
And this is something I mean, you got David Brooks

1256
01:12:10,279 --> 01:12:12,239
like writing in the New York Times about how we

1257
01:12:12,279 --> 01:12:14,279
have to go to war with Iraq and his son

1258
01:12:14,359 --> 01:12:17,520
is serving the idef, you know, and if you bring

1259
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:20,239
that up, that's supposed to be a problem, Like it's

1260
01:12:20,279 --> 01:12:22,039
something you're not supposed to talk about it, as if

1261
01:12:22,079 --> 01:12:26,119
it has no as if it has no attachment whatsoever

1262
01:12:26,239 --> 01:12:28,680
to the discussion, you know, whereas if it was any

1263
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:32,439
other group of people. Again, just imagine we're debating going

1264
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:34,319
into the Iraq War and every channel you turn on

1265
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:36,680
it's a panel of six people and five of them

1266
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:39,800
are Arabs. You would notice it, and you should notice it,

1267
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:41,920
and we should be able to talk about it. And

1268
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:44,319
the thing is, if we could talk about it honestly

1269
01:12:44,399 --> 01:12:47,800
and openly, it wouldn't be that big of a problem,

1270
01:12:48,039 --> 01:12:50,039
you know what I mean, Like, it really wouldn't. That's

1271
01:12:50,159 --> 01:12:53,119
really like at the core of the issue, wouldn't there Look,

1272
01:12:53,399 --> 01:12:56,960
I don't. I'm married to an Armenian woman. Armenian people

1273
01:12:57,399 --> 01:13:00,800
are super American at least, you know, I'm the LA

1274
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:02,800
community that I know, which is most of them. But

1275
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:05,760
they all love Armenia. They all are not gonna they're

1276
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:07,880
not going to lose their attachment to the homeland. And

1277
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:10,840
they love the culture, they love the country. They hate Azerbaijan,

1278
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:12,359
and they still hate the Turks, you know, all that

1279
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:15,960
kind of stuff. It matters to them. And so I

1280
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:19,560
don't expect, like, you know, like Jewish Americans to just

1281
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:21,920
all of a sudden just they don't care about Israel.

1282
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,479
Like it's just they're totally neutral. I'm an American, dammit,

1283
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:26,439
And Israel's just a foreign country to me. I don't

1284
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:29,479
expect that. We just have to be able to talk

1285
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,399
about it openly so that when something like that happens,

1286
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:35,760
we can ask, like whether you know Biden's cabinet being

1287
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:40,399
seventy percent Jewish is does that have any any role

1288
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:43,560
in our Mid East foreign policy? How did this happen?

1289
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:46,399
Like what's the story there? You know? I mean, but

1290
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:49,600
you can't ask these questions, and so all there is

1291
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:51,800
like one. I mean, when people tell you that you

1292
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:54,640
can't talk about something, if it's important enough to you,

1293
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:56,840
there's only one step after that, and that's to fight

1294
01:13:56,880 --> 01:13:59,439
over it. You know, they're basically challenging you to a

1295
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:01,479
fight when they when someone tells you you can't talk

1296
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:05,159
about that, they're basically challenging you to a fight. They're saying,

1297
01:14:05,199 --> 01:14:07,319
you can't talk about it. If you keep talking about it,

1298
01:14:07,359 --> 01:14:10,600
then there's going to be a problem, you know. And

1299
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:12,960
that's you know, that's where that kind of mentality like

1300
01:14:13,239 --> 01:14:17,199
just drives thing and inevitable, you know. And uh, and

1301
01:14:17,239 --> 01:14:19,680
I think more and more people are kind of getting

1302
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:24,600
to a point where, you know, Americans are we're civil

1303
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:27,399
people in general, and we don't you know, we don't

1304
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:30,520
want to entertain the idea of like hard solutions to

1305
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:32,680
these problems. But more and more people are starting to

1306
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,039
recognize that it's a problem that has to be solved

1307
01:14:35,039 --> 01:14:42,600
one way or another. And you know, I maybe, you know,

1308
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:46,399
as I get older, I'm like, I'm really becoming kind

1309
01:14:46,399 --> 01:14:48,920
of a softy and so like I think a lot

1310
01:14:49,119 --> 01:14:54,039
about just you know, hoping that when when this thing

1311
01:14:54,119 --> 01:14:55,960
kind of comes to a head, that it that it

1312
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:58,359
doesn't go in a direction that you know, I don't

1313
01:14:58,359 --> 01:14:59,920
want to. I don't want to live in a worl

1314
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:04,399
world where Dave Smith can't walk around without you know,

1315
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,039
people calling them out for being a Jew, and like

1316
01:15:07,079 --> 01:15:08,920
that becoming a problem. I don't I don't want to

1317
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:11,479
live in that world, you know, And like figuring out

1318
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:15,439
how to solve this problem without allowing allowing things to

1319
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:18,079
veer off in that direction. It really has to be

1320
01:15:18,239 --> 01:15:21,720
like the primary the primary concern, I think, because you

1321
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:24,319
don't want to lose your soul in the course of

1322
01:15:24,359 --> 01:15:26,880
trying to, you know, to deal with a problem that again,

1323
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:29,359
like is an unavoidable problem that has to be dealt with.

1324
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,319
And you know, I'll say the last thing on it,

1325
01:15:32,359 --> 01:15:34,640
I mean, you know, this is a this is a

1326
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:38,119
this is a thing that is really like global in scope,

1327
01:15:38,199 --> 01:15:40,039
or at least you know, it's like to the to

1328
01:15:40,079 --> 01:15:42,960
the West, it's global. And you know, you think about

1329
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:48,880
how in the nineteen nineties when Russia fell apart, and

1330
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:52,399
by nineteen ninety five ninety six, you had seven oligarchs

1331
01:15:52,399 --> 01:15:55,600
that own fifty eight percent of the entire Russian economy,

1332
01:15:55,640 --> 01:16:01,079
the entire economy, right, six out of those sevenligarchs were Jewish.

1333
01:16:01,359 --> 01:16:03,239
Jews were like one and a half percent of the

1334
01:16:03,399 --> 01:16:08,600
Russian population over in uh in Ukraine, the six most

1335
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:12,560
wealthiest oligarchs in Ukraine were all Jewish. And like when

1336
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:14,760
you and they were similar, similar thing, or like two

1337
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:16,760
percent of the population. And so when you see something

1338
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:19,920
like that, you're like, well, how does that happen? And

1339
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:23,720
that the obvious answer and the correct answer is that

1340
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:26,079
when you're part of a group of people that transcends

1341
01:16:26,159 --> 01:16:29,439
national borders. You know, when the opportunity came up, you

1342
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,600
had a second cousin in New York who worked at

1343
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:33,720
JP Morgan and could front you the money to buy

1344
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:36,880
up the steel industry in Europe or in Russia. And

1345
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:39,039
so it's like, you know, it's a it's a large

1346
01:16:39,119 --> 01:16:42,119
kind of transnational thing in a world that, for better

1347
01:16:42,199 --> 01:16:44,159
for worse, is still made up of nation states, and

1348
01:16:44,199 --> 01:16:47,000
that's still like the primary point of identity reference that

1349
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:52,399
that most you know, most Westerners have, and you know,

1350
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:57,359
it's it's a you know, it's funny because if you

1351
01:16:57,399 --> 01:16:59,840
look at like I could, he could, he wrote a

1352
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:04,159
whole book about it. But you know, things like Marxism

1353
01:17:05,279 --> 01:17:08,039
are are you know, a lot of the like there's

1354
01:17:08,079 --> 01:17:12,199
a reason that the that that Jewish communists, most Jewish

1355
01:17:12,239 --> 01:17:17,279
communists throughout the West were Trotskyists, and they didn't like Stalin.

1356
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:20,279
And then even when the Soviet Union after Khrushchev took over,

1357
01:17:20,319 --> 01:17:22,800
and like they really kind of you know, started taking

1358
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:25,720
the whole socialism in one country thing, like really seriously,

1359
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:28,640
and uh, they all became malists, you know, because Mao

1360
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:31,359
is still the internationalist, you know. And it's because the

1361
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:33,840
dry people think that they were all trotsky Is just

1362
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:37,439
because Trotsky was Jewish. And I mean Trotsky was the

1363
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:39,640
way he was because he was Jewish. It's not the

1364
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:41,600
other way. They didn't follow him because he was Jewish.

1365
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:44,119
He had the approach and the ideas he did because

1366
01:17:44,159 --> 01:17:47,199
he was Jewish. It was another way out of the exile.

1367
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:49,840
You know. It was just break down all the countries,

1368
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:53,039
all the cultural differences, all the national differences, linguistic, break

1369
01:17:53,079 --> 01:17:56,000
them all down, and then we're not in exile anymore,

1370
01:17:56,239 --> 01:17:59,720
you know. And uh, and that's why you know. Churchill

1371
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:01,960
makes it point in nineteen twenty in his paper Is

1372
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:05,399
in the article he wrote Zionism versus Bolshevism, he basically says, look,

1373
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:07,119
we can have it one way or the other, like

1374
01:18:07,199 --> 01:18:09,479
these people are either going to tear our continent and

1375
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:13,119
our civilization apart trying to find a way for like

1376
01:18:13,239 --> 01:18:15,399
them to fit in or burn it down on the way,

1377
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:18,119
or they can have their own country and they can

1378
01:18:18,199 --> 01:18:20,359
just go be a normal people like everybody else. That

1379
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:23,640
was Churchill's idea, you know, And that was Balfour's idea.

1380
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:25,840
Balfour believes something kind of similar to that. You know.

1381
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:27,720
It's like a lot of people today point out that

1382
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:29,920
Balfour was an anti Semite. How can he do that?

1383
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:33,039
It's like, well, he thought about it the way Churchill did.

1384
01:18:33,079 --> 01:18:35,840
You know that like that living in and all the

1385
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:37,840
Zionists did. Really, I mean, you want to talk about

1386
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:41,520
like the most anti Semitic writings that you can probably find.

1387
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:44,319
Most of them were written by hardcore Zionists back in

1388
01:18:44,359 --> 01:18:47,439
the early twentieth century. These are all people who look

1389
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:49,800
at the state of the Jews throughout Europe and the West,

1390
01:18:50,119 --> 01:18:52,399
and they say that the exile has just ruined us

1391
01:18:52,399 --> 01:18:55,079
as a people, you know, not having soil, not having

1392
01:18:55,119 --> 01:18:58,399
attachment to a place, always having to sort of like

1393
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:01,840
find a way to make a living, you know, underneath

1394
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:05,640
the table set by others has just it's it's it's

1395
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:08,800
sort of spoiled our mindset in important ways. And that's why,

1396
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:13,119
you know, especially in the in the first in the say,

1397
01:19:13,159 --> 01:19:16,079
probably first fifty sixty years of the Zionist project, it

1398
01:19:16,119 --> 01:19:18,319
didn't matter if you were a banker, if you were

1399
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:21,119
you know, a merchant, whatever it was, you go to

1400
01:19:21,239 --> 01:19:23,119
you go to Israel or you go to you know,

1401
01:19:23,159 --> 01:19:26,079
the the you should before it was Israel, and you're

1402
01:19:26,079 --> 01:19:28,079
getting your hands dirty, you're putting your hands in the dirt,

1403
01:19:28,119 --> 01:19:30,680
you're learning to farm, you're gonna sweat. Because they was

1404
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,920
like almost they talked about it as purging the people

1405
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:37,399
of the exile, you know that and sort of correcting

1406
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:41,920
these these collective these national character defects that had collected

1407
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:45,279
over that kind of an experience, that sort of very unnatural,

1408
01:19:45,399 --> 01:19:48,680
inorganic kind of gypsy lifestyle that always led And so

1409
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:54,479
you know, I think that uh, you know, look a

1410
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:56,840
right winger it it's you can look at Israel and

1411
01:19:56,880 --> 01:19:59,680
say I and I do hear this sometimes from people

1412
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:04,000
who are even like far right, will say like, hey, like,

1413
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:06,960
you can hate the game all you want, but like,

1414
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:12,720
you know, the Israelis like are they're about Israel? And yeah,

1415
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:16,319
like it's bad for you because they're exerting influence over

1416
01:20:16,359 --> 01:20:19,039
your government and causing you to do things that are

1417
01:20:19,079 --> 01:20:22,640
against your interests and may be harmful to you. But

1418
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:24,239
you kind of got to you've got to kind of

1419
01:20:24,239 --> 01:20:26,920
respect the fact that like, for them, it's all about

1420
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:30,119
them and that and that's that. And there's a lot

1421
01:20:30,119 --> 01:20:31,680
of people that even on the right that kind of

1422
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:33,279
see it that way. And we want to talk about

1423
01:20:33,319 --> 01:20:35,960
being jealous. That's really what I think a lot of

1424
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:38,560
people are jealous of. You know, they're jealous of a

1425
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:41,079
group of people who actually still have something that they

1426
01:20:41,119 --> 01:20:44,279
can hold on to collectively and you know, in a

1427
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:49,079
sense of cultural and religious continuity that they think at

1428
01:20:49,199 --> 01:20:52,079
least goes back like thousands of years. That kind of

1429
01:20:52,079 --> 01:20:54,640
defines them as a people, something really worth preserving, and

1430
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:56,439
I think a lot of people in the West are

1431
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:59,079
having especially in the United States. It's very difficult today,

1432
01:20:59,119 --> 01:21:02,119
you know, ever since the mid twentieth century when everybody

1433
01:21:02,199 --> 01:21:05,600
pushed out into the suburbs and lost that sort of

1434
01:21:06,079 --> 01:21:08,680
corporate ethnic identity that they had in the cities and

1435
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:12,079
just became kind of white people. Not even really white

1436
01:21:12,119 --> 01:21:15,199
Protestants anymore. They're just kind of white people with a

1437
01:21:15,239 --> 01:21:17,800
Jewish neighbor over here and an Italian neighbor over here,

1438
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:20,000
and none of them go to church, and like trying

1439
01:21:20,039 --> 01:21:22,239
to figure out like you know, and this is the

1440
01:21:22,239 --> 01:21:24,800
problem I think that like white nationalism always runs into,

1441
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:27,600
is like you're trying to construct something like ex nihilo

1442
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:30,439
and yeah, like you know, there's you could say, like

1443
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:33,720
Europe has a cultural tradition and stuff, but you know,

1444
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:36,399
the idea that like everybody with white skin is somehow

1445
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:39,039
part of a collective identity group, that's a that's a

1446
01:21:39,079 --> 01:21:43,039
new concept that like doesn't have like deep, deep, deep

1447
01:21:43,159 --> 01:21:45,840
historical roots that you can just pick up and you know,

1448
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:49,680
sort of decorate the tree with. And so you know,

1449
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:52,399
it's it's a it's a it's a tough problem on

1450
01:21:52,439 --> 01:21:54,199
all sides. I mean, when you have a people who

1451
01:21:54,279 --> 01:21:58,439
are very very very firm in their identity and their

1452
01:21:58,479 --> 01:22:00,960
sense of collective interests living in the people who are

1453
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:03,800
not just not like that, but like I really have

1454
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:07,199
been in a very short period of time, like stripped

1455
01:22:07,199 --> 01:22:10,439
of all of that, you know, of even their neighborhood identities,

1456
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:13,039
and are kind of casting around looking for something to

1457
01:22:13,079 --> 01:22:18,600
build in replacement of it. That you know, it becomes

1458
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:22,439
one of those things that that that that you know,

1459
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:25,399
people start to look at that as as if it's

1460
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:30,520
inherently inherently bad or inherently something to be suspicious of,

1461
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:33,359
you know. When again, I think all of this stuff

1462
01:22:33,399 --> 01:22:37,520
could mostly be solved. The Jews wouldn't have to change

1463
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:40,479
anything they're actually doing. For the most part, it could

1464
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:43,920
mostly be solved if everybody could just talk about it.

1465
01:22:44,119 --> 01:22:47,000
Everybody could just talk about it, you know, nobody I

1466
01:22:47,039 --> 01:22:49,359
talked about like in the first half of the twentieth century,

1467
01:22:49,399 --> 01:22:51,840
like how New York operated with all the different ethnicities

1468
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:54,359
that live there, and the power sharing agreements in the

1469
01:22:54,359 --> 01:22:57,760
local government and economy and things that people were just

1470
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:00,760
very open about there's that group and have these interests,

1471
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:02,680
they want these things, and that's going to have to

1472
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:05,399
be balanced off this other. And being able to do that,

1473
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:08,119
like it really lets off a lot of pressure, you know.

1474
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:13,800
Speaker 1: Y's it operates like a guild where you know, an

1475
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:18,000
old European guild where one one isn't going to outcompete

1476
01:23:18,039 --> 01:23:21,680
the other, you know, to a great deal where you

1477
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:26,079
know when you competter it when you at a time

1478
01:23:27,079 --> 01:23:32,399
when competition is considered not you know, it's it's rude.

1479
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:35,399
Competition be rude. So you just figure out a way.

1480
01:23:35,399 --> 01:23:38,600
And that's what I've always said, is like it'd be

1481
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:41,600
great to just have a conversation about all this. You know,

1482
01:23:41,640 --> 01:23:44,039
I've been studying the last two thousand years of these

1483
01:23:44,039 --> 01:23:47,600
people's history because I basically feel like they roll over,

1484
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:50,760
like they roll over this country, like they control this country.

1485
01:23:51,159 --> 01:23:55,640
And I'm trying to figure out exactly what, why, who

1486
01:23:56,439 --> 01:23:59,079
and how we get through this. You know. Thomas Thomas

1487
01:23:59,159 --> 01:24:02,720
always says he there's no like third position right now.

1488
01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:07,439
It's like literally globalism. There's globalist power and then there's

1489
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:12,119
us and there's everyone who opposes it. And yeah, I

1490
01:24:12,119 --> 01:24:15,720
mean you can if you're in power and more people

1491
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:18,520
are popping up to oppose it. I understand you want

1492
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:23,079
to stay in power, but you know it's going to

1493
01:24:23,159 --> 01:24:26,560
come to a head unless you can figure out exactly,

1494
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:31,279
you know why, you know, why it has to why

1495
01:24:31,359 --> 01:24:34,199
one group feels like it has to be this way.

1496
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:39,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and you know, and it's kind of you know,

1497
01:24:39,159 --> 01:24:43,000
the sort of steroids that are thrown into the mix

1498
01:24:43,119 --> 01:24:47,840
are just the sense of you know, the sense of

1499
01:24:49,159 --> 01:24:52,279
paranoia and persecution that Jews have that a lot of

1500
01:24:52,279 --> 01:24:57,039
minorities have, but it's very different with Jews because you know,

1501
01:24:57,319 --> 01:24:58,399
like you might have like.

1502
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:04,680
Speaker 3: A you know, a black dude who when he goes

1503
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:07,520
to order a coffee and the dude behind the counter

1504
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:11,000
is a jerk who thinks he's gonna think he's being

1505
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:12,439
a jerk as I'm black, and maybe he's not.

1506
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:14,199
Speaker 2: Maybe the dude's just a jerk, but he's gonna take

1507
01:25:14,239 --> 01:25:17,479
it that way. You know, that's just kind of something

1508
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:19,720
that you deal with in a diverse society with you know,

1509
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:21,560
that's just one of those things we have to we

1510
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:25,399
have to deal with, you know, the the the the

1511
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:28,640
unique part of it. And actually, like Dennis Praeger said,

1512
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:31,479
this in his debate that he did with Dave Smith

1513
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:34,520
on the panel is he said that Jew hatred is

1514
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:38,159
different because it's extermination. And so if I say something

1515
01:25:38,199 --> 01:25:42,560
about Churchill having some culpability for escalating, you know, the

1516
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:47,199
German German Polish war into the Second World War, that's

1517
01:25:47,239 --> 01:25:50,279
not like an academic claim. It's not even just a

1518
01:25:50,319 --> 01:25:53,920
claim that implies that I have something against Jews. It's

1519
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:57,760
that I want to kill you, like that's the way

1520
01:25:57,800 --> 01:25:59,399
they take it. Like if you you know, if you

1521
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:03,279
question tenets of the official narrative of the Second World War,

1522
01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:06,520
it's not because you're a contrarian or because you want

1523
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:09,359
to you know, look at some of those things, because

1524
01:26:09,399 --> 01:26:12,239
you hate us and want us all dead. Like that's

1525
01:26:12,479 --> 01:26:14,560
and that's like a unique thing. Like a lot of

1526
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:17,680
a lot of minorities feel out of place and even

1527
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:19,600
threatened in a lot of societies.

1528
01:26:20,159 --> 01:26:20,319
Speaker 1: You know.

1529
01:26:20,319 --> 01:26:23,760
Speaker 2: Again, I'm married to an Armenian, and Armenians they had

1530
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:28,159
a genocide inflicted on them that was every bit and

1531
01:26:28,239 --> 01:26:30,680
probably I mean as far as like the official documentation

1532
01:26:30,840 --> 01:26:35,600
that we have of the events was more top down

1533
01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:40,960
directed like intentional just total genocide. Then what happened to

1534
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:42,920
the Jews in the Second World War, just based on

1535
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:45,800
the documentations that we have, and yet they don't have

1536
01:26:45,880 --> 01:26:49,600
this sense of just pervasive, universal threat wherever they go

1537
01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:52,640
all the time. And if there's somebody there who doesn't

1538
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:55,600
like Armenians, you know, who live in Los Angeles, they

1539
01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:57,840
can take that as like, well, yeah, because you know,

1540
01:26:57,920 --> 01:26:59,800
you live in the other neighborhood over there and you

1541
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:01,800
can pete with our businesses and we don't like each

1542
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:05,439
other or whatever. They don't take it as like essentially

1543
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:09,800
a death threat every time they run into inner group confrontations,

1544
01:27:10,239 --> 01:27:14,079
and so you know, that adds an element to it

1545
01:27:14,159 --> 01:27:18,479
that just brings like a level of panic to almost

1546
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:21,119
like any mention of these issues. The reason that we

1547
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:24,359
that we can't talk about them is not you know, generally,

1548
01:27:24,359 --> 01:27:27,279
I'm up until very recently, there were no laws being passed,

1549
01:27:27,279 --> 01:27:29,960
Nobody was getting deported or losing their citizenship or anything

1550
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:32,479
like that. Those things weren't happening. It was that, you

1551
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:35,039
know that every that bringing this up, even in the

1552
01:27:35,039 --> 01:27:38,439
most roundabout kind of civil way, even if it's like

1553
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:41,199
the most obvious thing that should be brought up, you know,

1554
01:27:41,319 --> 01:27:44,119
people should be talking about the fact that David Brooks's

1555
01:27:44,159 --> 01:27:46,960
son is in the IDF when he's advocating for us

1556
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:49,000
to go over there and take out one of Israel's enemies.

1557
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:52,920
That's an obvious thing that people should mention, right, But

1558
01:27:53,119 --> 01:27:56,239
anything like that is met with just a level of panic,

1559
01:27:56,960 --> 01:27:59,640
you know that. I think most people are just like

1560
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:02,520
I just don't yeah, okay, okay, okay, fine, I don't

1561
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:05,399
want to deal with it, you know, but that opens

1562
01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:07,920
up again, you know, it opens up a lot of

1563
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:11,319
space for people to operate with impunity. And anytime you

1564
01:28:11,359 --> 01:28:13,840
have that, I mean, look at Israel has been able

1565
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:16,439
to do that now for fifty years, and you see

1566
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:19,199
what you get. You know, everybody knows what kids who

1567
01:28:19,239 --> 01:28:22,600
are allowed to do anything they want, never discipline whatsoever.

1568
01:28:23,199 --> 01:28:25,520
How they turn out, they turn out, they turn out bad.

1569
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:30,479
And so yeah, I mean, you know, a lot again,

1570
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:32,239
a lot of times like when people ask, like what

1571
01:28:32,239 --> 01:28:35,079
can be done about these issues? They're looking for like

1572
01:28:35,159 --> 01:28:40,520
political solutions or some kind of solution that like people

1573
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:43,199
always run away from it because they all sound like they're,

1574
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:47,279
you know, either step one or step two toward Nuremberg

1575
01:28:47,319 --> 01:28:49,720
in nineteen thirty five. But I always tell them they

1576
01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:52,840
like the solution to Most of this is we just

1577
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:54,680
have to be able to talk about it. That's really

1578
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:56,920
all it is. Like, you know, the people on there

1579
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:58,840
telling you we have to go to war with Iran

1580
01:28:58,960 --> 01:29:00,960
are going to lose a lot of their influence the

1581
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:02,960
minute you can say, well, yeah, but like three of

1582
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:06,000
you are dual citizens of Israel, so you know, maybe

1583
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:08,199
we should hear from somebody else. Like if you could

1584
01:29:08,199 --> 01:29:12,960
just say that without having the Trump administration to port you,

1585
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:15,560
you know, then a lot of this stuff would fix itself.

1586
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:17,920
They're still free to voice their opinions. They're free to

1587
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:20,000
make their case for why it's actually a good thing

1588
01:29:20,079 --> 01:29:22,399
for America to intervene on Israel's behalf. They can do

1589
01:29:22,399 --> 01:29:24,680
all that stuff, but we have to be able to

1590
01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:27,159
be open about the motivations and the and the dynamics

1591
01:29:27,159 --> 01:29:27,560
at play.

1592
01:29:30,119 --> 01:29:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was thinking about the gentleman that that Scott

1593
01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:41,840
Horton debated on Lex Friedman Show is Dublets, Mark Dublets,

1594
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:46,880
and he's yeah, he was trying to tell Scott, you know,

1595
01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:50,039
it's like I've been an Iran expert for twenty two years.

1596
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:54,880
I'm like, that's interesting. And then Scott, you know, it

1597
01:29:54,960 --> 01:29:57,640
was like, you know, I was born here. Yeah, I'm

1598
01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:00,600
a Texan. You know you weren't even born here. And

1599
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:02,840
he goes, well, I've been living here for twenty two years,

1600
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:06,960
and it's just things like that where I go. Are

1601
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:09,479
You've been living here for twenty two years. You've been

1602
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:12,920
an Iran expert for twenty two years, and you're basically

1603
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:20,319
pushing that Iran needs to be suppressed. You couldn't do

1604
01:30:20,359 --> 01:30:23,119
that from Britain. You couldn't do that from South Africa,

1605
01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:26,680
you couldn't do that from Israel. You had to come

1606
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:30,039
here and do it. It's like, can we just why

1607
01:30:30,119 --> 01:30:32,560
can't we have a conversation about that? Why can't I

1608
01:30:32,600 --> 01:30:37,800
mean yeah, And then you read someone like Maurice Samuel

1609
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:40,520
and he says, well, we can't have a conversation.

1610
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:44,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean again, I keep using this as

1611
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:46,399
a reference point because I think it's a valuable one.

1612
01:30:46,439 --> 01:30:50,399
But like the Armenians, man, like they want the US

1613
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:53,920
to step in and rein in Azerbaijan. You know, they

1614
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:56,000
don't like the fact that we're so cozy with Turkey,

1615
01:30:56,279 --> 01:30:59,479
but they'll say I want to I want the US

1616
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:02,399
government to step in rein in Azerbaijan because I'm Armenian

1617
01:31:02,479 --> 01:31:07,239
and I care what happens in Armenia, and if that's fine,

1618
01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:09,560
that's totally fine, you know what I mean, Like you

1619
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:12,199
go back to the First and Second World Wars, somebody's like,

1620
01:31:12,199 --> 01:31:15,119
I'm Irish, I'm Irish American. I don't want us allying

1621
01:31:15,199 --> 01:31:18,039
with Britain to like go to war with Germany. Hell no,

1622
01:31:18,119 --> 01:31:20,880
I don't want That's totally fine. You know, if it's

1623
01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:23,399
out in the open, we can actually discuss these things.

1624
01:31:24,199 --> 01:31:27,199
But it's when you know, you're you're everybody is sort

1625
01:31:27,199 --> 01:31:30,600
of required to pretend that that element of it is

1626
01:31:31,680 --> 01:31:34,199
not part of the equation at all. But you can't

1627
01:31:34,239 --> 01:31:36,880
have any real conversations about anything because we're all just

1628
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:39,119
skirting the actual the actual issue.

1629
01:31:39,199 --> 01:31:43,880
Speaker 1: You know, I've kept you long enough. I really appreciate

1630
01:31:43,880 --> 01:31:47,439
your time. I appreciate the conversation. I appreciate the work

1631
01:31:47,479 --> 01:31:50,159
you're doing. I look forward to the rest of the

1632
01:31:50,199 --> 01:31:54,680
work appearances and the first real episode of the uh

1633
01:31:56,199 --> 01:32:00,800
of the of the Germany series. But you know, just yeah,

1634
01:32:01,359 --> 01:32:03,079
the plug.

1635
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:06,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, anytime, man. I always love talking to you, and

1636
01:32:06,199 --> 01:32:09,720
I just appreciate the work you do very much, and

1637
01:32:09,800 --> 01:32:13,439
so yeah, I'll come on anytime. You want. I always

1638
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:16,520
enjoy it, so yeah, you can find me The Martyr

1639
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:21,479
Made podcast much more measured and probably coherent than I

1640
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:23,880
am in an interview like this. We cover all kinds

1641
01:32:23,920 --> 01:32:27,119
of historical topics. And I just started a new show

1642
01:32:27,279 --> 01:32:30,159
with my buddy Scott Horton, who many of your audience

1643
01:32:30,239 --> 01:32:34,079
probably know well, called Provoked, which is the name of

1644
01:32:34,079 --> 01:32:35,800
the recent book he wrote on Russia, but I thought

1645
01:32:35,840 --> 01:32:37,720
it would be a good name for our new podcast too,

1646
01:32:37,800 --> 01:32:40,159
so check that out. We've done two episodes. We're going

1647
01:32:40,239 --> 01:32:42,039
to record the third one tomorrow. I think we're going

1648
01:32:42,119 --> 01:32:43,800
to talk well, I don't know if it'll be tomorrow

1649
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:45,760
for you guys anymore, but episode three we're going to

1650
01:32:45,800 --> 01:32:50,760
talk about Epstein. So yeah, that's all man. I really

1651
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:53,119
appreciate the work you're doing. I was telling you before

1652
01:32:53,159 --> 01:32:56,800
off air. Your the series that you've done with Thomas,

1653
01:32:56,800 --> 01:32:59,960
the one that you're working through now with doctor Johnson,

1654
01:33:00,159 --> 01:33:04,680
are I mean, really invaluable, like educational tools for especially

1655
01:33:04,680 --> 01:33:06,439
for young people coming into the right and you want

1656
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:09,399
to learn about this stuff. It's one of those things

1657
01:33:09,479 --> 01:33:13,439
where you know it's crazy, right because you're got your podcaster,

1658
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:16,600
you got the piquinone show. You're not a professor at

1659
01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:19,439
a big university or something like that, and so you

1660
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:21,920
would think, like, you know, if I want to go

1661
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:26,199
right about World War One, it's like, okay, good luck, man,

1662
01:33:26,319 --> 01:33:29,159
like because pretty much everything has been written on World

1663
01:33:29,239 --> 01:33:32,960
War One, like go knock yourself out. This stuff that

1664
01:33:33,039 --> 01:33:36,039
you guys are talking about, It's like, dude, the entire

1665
01:33:36,159 --> 01:33:39,399
culture has just been leaving this sitting here for somebody

1666
01:33:39,439 --> 01:33:42,640
to pick up and actually deal with for one hundred years,

1667
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:44,720
you know, and it's just been sitting there. Nobody's been

1668
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:47,319
actually addressing it. So when somebody comes into the right

1669
01:33:47,359 --> 01:33:50,199
and they want to educate themselves, they look around and

1670
01:33:50,239 --> 01:33:53,520
there's just not a lot out there, like real good

1671
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:56,079
stuff out there, and you're providing that service. And I

1672
01:33:56,119 --> 01:33:58,479
hope that you know how much I mean, not just me,

1673
01:33:58,600 --> 01:34:00,079
but everybody. I think a lot of people out I

1674
01:34:00,199 --> 01:34:00,960
really appreciate it.

1675
01:34:01,079 --> 01:34:05,840
Speaker 1: So well. I hope you understand how much I appreciate

1676
01:34:05,960 --> 01:34:11,079
the recommendations that you give and also encouragement that you give.

1677
01:34:11,279 --> 01:34:13,560
Thank you, Thank you. I really appreciate what you do.

1678
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:17,800
Now that we're done, Now that we're done stroking struggles,

1679
01:34:18,159 --> 01:34:19,520
it's talk to your letter man later

1680
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:26,960
Speaker 2: H.