Speaker 1: Oh, hello and welcome. I am Carrie Anne, and you
are listening to Seventh Sanctum and today I am being
joined with good bye my normal co host host Natalie
co co Ho co hosts. I don't know where I
was going with it, and this evening we are being
joined by Tom May's. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: Tom, How are you my pleasure?
Speaker 3: Doing great perfect us.
Speaker 1: So when we have interviews, we often ask those that
have come along and those that we were interviewing or
talking of discussing with to tell us a little bit
about their journey of how they found themselves here with
us tonight. So you stop from the beginning or tell
us a little bit about about you, please.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have been working with well horse is probably
forty years.
Speaker 4: But in terms of the healing space those are you.
Speaker 2: Know, that journey is more like the wounded healers story
that everybody has or a lot of us have. But
and I grew up around the allopathic the normal. I
grew up around mds and researchers. And the reason that
I don't know why that's really that relevant to my story,
but it is in the sense that I was around
that real everything's got to be triple blind study and
nothing exists unless you can prove it. And I grew
up with that constant avis all hogwash, and I love
proving and I do like regular scientific method. It's not
that I throw it away, but it's not going to
ever be my master.
Speaker 4: It's going to be a.
Speaker 2: Tool. And so anyway, my journey went from that to
teaching and public school system, and the whole point of
that was to awaken children to their own potential, which.
Speaker 4: Sounds kind of like.
Speaker 2: If that sounds provocative, it's because we've lost it, because
that should be the entire intent of education, wisdom and
then knowledge. And so from that I got into long
distance horse riding in the mountains in the western United States,
and I just to me, the high mountains is sanctuary
to me. So I mean really long, not much walking.
Mostly it's speed, not at trot speed, not no horse
can go real fast along. But that got me into
deeper reasons for why horses don't heal, and then my
background in medical anthropology, and that I just kept going.
Speaker 4: I've always been about deeper spiritual.
Speaker 2: Energy, period and at the end of the day, everybody
gravitates back to the same place and so I got
into different things like equine, car practic human stuff. I
don't I can't remember all the trainings I've had, applied kinesiology,
Chinese medicine, acupuncture, herbology, and then one day I ran
into a true traditional osteopath and then I really switched.
But anyway, my work is now mostly educating professional horse
people and people that have that in mind on how
to truly look at the inside of the horse inside
out and to restructure them back to their potential.
Speaker 4: Essentially is what we do theeopathically.
Speaker 2: I do a lot of vascular, neuro spinal cord organ work.
If you really want to clear the horse's body, you've
got to look at the driving things, and that along
with my spiritual work. And I had a spiritual mentor
actually from.
Speaker 4: The UK, have one still. I consult with her.
Speaker 2: Less Linda Meridicks, and she's now in western United States, Washington,
but I use she's an extraordinary channel and I would
go and we would essentially trade. I'd work on her
and she would channel and I would be getting all
kinds of information to then take out into the field.
Speaker 4: And to work with. And that work led me to a.
Speaker 2: Very different perspective and efficacy on physically. That was way
bey where I thought I was going to go. And
that kind of pushed me into that the body's driven
by three main energies and what they are and how
do I touch them physically, And it's changed. I mean,
that just changed a ton of stuff. And so those
three energies aligned with spiritual traditions. I don't care what
it is, Christian or whatever. Basically it's it's like the
Father said and the Holy Ghost. It's vascular, soul, spirit,
life force. And when you address the physical body from
those three systems, and they are systems that you can physically,
they danced their own dance and that changes the outcomes
of a horse that if you just wanted to be
in the Olympics or you just want to go around
the block. Anyway, My point, my whole thing is if
I had one statement to just decribe what I'm about
as an equine practitioner, it would be I partner with
equists to awake humans the hell up. That would be it. Yeah,
and that's what they're here for. An awakened horse, a
savvy horse is totally conscious of that.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that when they when they click into that
kind of level that there's that's the understanding that they
have is like profound. It has seems to have no
limit I've found anyway. So far, They've always hit my
limit before I've hit theirs. It's it's crazy, It really
is crazy.
Speaker 2: A limit that they have an awakened horse, which there
are a lot of them. My job is to help
them do that, but the limit is usually from what
I can see.
Speaker 4: Governed by their guides.
Speaker 2: As to how much they're allowed to open us. Because
I've seen experiences where what I thought was just a
kind of an average awakened horse do things that were
on the miraculous scale where the whole ground checks and
most of the must say, we're not allowed to do that.
So there's a potential there that's untapped that either that
or we're not worthy enough to receive that probably more accurate.
But yeah, their journey on this planet is certainly interwoven
with us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's odd actually because
it's like a puzzled David. For me and my friend
have puzzled David for several years about like how the
horse evolved to be, how they are. You know, if
you look at their origins. You know, it's that little
tiny forest dwelling animals like before hard and you know
when you look at them now and like you say
that the spiritual power they've developed as they've evolved, it's
it's hard to imagine that how they've intertwined themselves with
humanity and how we've not until recently probably truly appreciated that,
you know, what they bring, unless it is their evolution
as well. I suppose you know, it's like they've they're
bringing more in because we're able to accept more. Maybe,
I don't know. I don't know what you've found with
things like that. Whether have you noticed a difference in
horses between forty years ago and now because they seem
to be more conscious now, unless just coming aware of
it and they always have been like that. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if that's I think that's true
to a certain extent because they pass that on. I
think it's maybe it's maybe intertwined and proportional to the
awakening of humanity kind of thing. I mean, I'm you
can even look at ancient texts or there were awakening
intuitive people working with horses b C.
Speaker 4: You know, and.
Speaker 2: The indigenous people that did work with horses, their traditions
were plenty deep, which would be you know, kind of
true with us too in that regard.
Speaker 4: But I would say that there's a quickening right now.
Speaker 2: There's a much deeper need for the species as a
whole to get on board and to help us to
raise our frequencies. And they know it, and it dominates
all aspects.
Speaker 4: Of their life if they're awakened like it does us.
Speaker 2: So I mean I have there are most horse people
that I work with in terms of when I was
doing private sessions all the time, which I don't do
too much anymore. Most people are so pretty closed off,
and the horse is the utility to better in this case,
it's not too as utility transport to animal.
Speaker 4: It's more of a.
Speaker 2: Showing, eventing type of an aspect that often has human
ego as the mainstay. And even I'll offer many times
to horses that are mirroring, they'll take on a lot
of the physical attributes and pain of the human that
they're attached to. I mean, it isn't it's just constant.
And I'll look at them sometime and ask, as you're
human worthy for that much suffering that you're going through,
and they they tend and I have to doubt that
sometimes with some of us. If you're not worthy, you're
not worthy, and they will question it and always look
up for guidance or guidance is coming in, and they
almost always say, and that's not negotiable, it's my contract.
And so that whole journey of human horse marrying is
where most of my passion lies. When I work on
a horse with a human. I am not a mechanical
routine person by any means. I can do it, but
I would die on the vine if I had to
do the same thing every day and the same it's
when I get into this aspect, when a deeper energy
flows and the horse, I can just feel the energy
change and the horse will look at me and there's
the dialogue between the horse and me and what the
human needs. And they're always dead on and it's always
the person's primary dysfunction. I mean they are, I mean
just from an allopathic MD standpoint. I've worked with people
where they can't figure out functional medicine.
Speaker 4: Doctors, biological doctors, I think you call.
Speaker 2: Them a lot in Europe where they cannot figure out
a chronic illness, background disease pattern, and a horse, even
a horse that is not connected to them, that chooses
to be will find it. And with my I'm just
a communicator, within four or five minutes, we'll find it.
Speaker 4: They see it. I often ask them, well, how is
it you're able to.
Speaker 2: See such a major dysfunction in a person, And they
kind of look at us like.
Speaker 4: You guys are kind of stupid.
Speaker 2: It's just so shining bright, it's right there, and they
can just and then my job is to verify it.
I go in and test it, and go down and
identify it, illuminate it, and then help the person decide
how they want to.
Speaker 4: Go forward with clearing it, whether it be.
Speaker 2: A referral to somebody else, whether it be let me
go in on it, whatever it is.
Speaker 4: But the results in.
Speaker 2: The proof in the pudding, if you will, are undisputable.
Speaker 3: So do you end up working on the humans almost
more than the horses when you called into how the horses?
Speaker 2: That depends on the energy dynamic. Not usually, okay, it
is usually on a standard basis, like let's say I've
never even seen the person or the horse. The energy
that I bring via what they know or feel and
then just my energy is if I'm going to come
work on you, it's not a little soft thing. It's
like we go you fully, you fully get in there,
and you fully go not in a hurried way, but
in a truly strong, intentional, spiritual.
Speaker 4: Let's go to me.
Speaker 2: That's really the only place healing, actually deep healing her occurs.
And it might take me a while to open the
horse literally, and then the horse opens to the bigger picture.
Speaker 4: Then I usually go to the human.
Speaker 2: And there's something about whatever energies are there.
Speaker 4: With with equis with.
Speaker 2: Horses and the humans interface. I tend to be more
effective in that place than if they just came to
me human the human. But often it's that I awaken
something that is their deepest.
Speaker 4: Path issue, that how.
Speaker 2: It is been entrained into the body, and I open
it up and clear it, and then that usually gets
them on their healing journey. And then often I will
refer them to really astute practitioners, and.
Speaker 4: You know, or they may wish that I go deeper
on them.
Speaker 2: But usually if I say you need this, this, and
this done, so it's a process.
Speaker 4: Most people aren't ready for the whole thing.
Speaker 3: I want no that's true. Yeah, you have to sort
of chunk it down. Sometimes it give me a bit overwhelming.
Speaker 2: It's a it's an art form more than anything.
Speaker 3: You know, what did you say that they call even
they call it medical practice, don't they even an alopathy.
It's a practice and an art and not a science,
which is an irony. I always thought it is on
about the science and I'm like, yeah, but you're practicing
or not in a weird kind of way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what I.
Speaker 2: Mean when you look at I guess I don't know
the definition of art in many ways, but you have
all kinds of tools, whether it's an artist brush and
a canvas and paints and ve dah da da. But
it's what tool the use when, with what intention? Right,
So it's a dance. It's always a dance. I don't
care what it is. So you have to be able
to flow with the movement and the energy coming in
and coming out. So yeah, it's kind of ah.
Speaker 1: So what happens do you? Are you ever in a
situation where you're working with the horse and the human
but the results aren't recepted, We have not received very well.
Have you ever been in a situation where maybe the
human has been given information that withous process or and
how have you managed that? How do you how are
you able to work with that?
Speaker 4: That's a great question.
Speaker 2: It's always that's part of that art thing.
Speaker 4: Where is this person in terms of being open and
wishing to open? So you have.
Speaker 2: I've asked the universe quite a few years ago to
if somebody's frequency or intention is not willing to shift
because you run into walls there. I can soften those walls.
I can even I can even you know, go beyond
that and make them fall if I want to. But
the point is it's not appropriate to push on something
that's not willing to work with. So I asked the universe,
do not bring to me frequencies that are not willing
to shift, because they're willing to shift, however, and they're
very restrictive, and they're on that kind of flip flop
flip flop edge. Just the energy and the presence of
being there starts it like it would with you as
I move. Usually here's the equals part. There is a
deep connection. The horse has done most of the groundwork
in terms of nudging the person to want to come
to that healing place on that precipice of jumping off,
and when they see their horse start to open and
the energy shift around the horse, and the horse will
communicate with the owner. That's probably enough critical mass for
me to do the next step.
Speaker 4: And then I do a lot of well, let's just
put it this way. On a normal.
Speaker 2: Basis, the horse will stop and say okay, he she
Usually she's ready show her her main issue, and the
horse will often literally sniff. They do a lot of
aspects with their mouth, their nose. They'll usually touch a
finger and that's like they're Chinese occupants, but that's not
what they are.
Speaker 4: They're pathways.
Speaker 2: So like you went to a forest and they're showing
you this divergent trail and they say that trail and
I know the essence of that trail, but I don't
know exactly how it's going to manifest. So I follow
that traill in the human and they look at me
like what the hell are you doing?
Speaker 4: And I just pick up there.
Speaker 2: I'll go to where it shows up, and then as
I touch something on them, I get the intuitive hit and.
Speaker 4: It tells me what it is, and it tells me.
Speaker 2: What the path issue is usually and why they are
holding on to this dysfunction because to me, anything physically
wrong with this is almost always related to an issue
you have in your past, an emotional hold, a belief issue,
and who you are as a being before you came
in always, So that's that frequency. And then I go
into that and usually the person kind of stands there
like what the hell's happening, and they allow it, and
they they engage with it, even though they don't their
left brain is completely are loaded, almost.
Speaker 4: Put to the side, so they just are set aside.
Speaker 2: So we can do that, and then usually they let
it cook after that for a while, and then they
call me back so or ask me questions or who
did you say I should go to to get this
last part?
Speaker 4: You know that company?
Speaker 2: So it is a spiritual it's it's always a spiritual.
Speaker 4: What's the word I'm looking for effusion that allows this.
Speaker 2: And then sometimes when it's as simple as you're choosing
neurotoxic foods for your horse and for you, and let
me prove that to you. So I'll use pain responses
on it. And I'm sure a lot of you know
about like muscle testing stuff, Yeah, where you're testing that.
I like, it's the same thing like dousing muscle testing,
but it doesn't tend to convince them, so I usually
use pain responses, like if they're on a liver point
or something. When they are doing so, they feel it.
There's something about that where they go and the horse
glares at them and I and the pain glares at them.
So it's an educational process on all fronts, but it's
primarily a spiritual journey, as all humans should be.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know what to say to that.
It's really profound, isn't it central? Right?
Speaker 4: It's just central.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, if I was there working with
you and a horse, you go, oh, okay, I get this.
Speaker 4: These are just different ways of connecting.
Speaker 2: That's all.
Speaker 3: I wish we were there you because I would absolutely
adore to do something like that. You know, with I've
come close with horses, but I struggle with owners. It's
like I can access the deeper levels of the horse
and work with them, but when it comes to the owners,
I've always struggled to be able to get that, like say,
the resonance from me to the horse to the owner.
I've usually managed to get the resonance between between me
and the horse and shifts, but to get it to
go through to the owner. I would love to be
able to do that.
Speaker 2: It's I think one of the things that's critical there
is not in an arrogant way, but you engage with
the like the owners standing there is.
Speaker 4: I usually take the lead rope.
Speaker 2: From the owner, Okay, And what I mean by that
mainly is I engage with the horse in a compassionate
and opening way, and the owner is set aside. Then
the owner is brought back into the circle, but not
the other way around. The owner decides how it's going
to go and controls the energy.
Speaker 4: We won't open.
Speaker 3: That's that's an intro. Okay, I'll try that next time,
because that's that's the block that I have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean, you go to somebody's barn, facility, stable, whatever.
You pick a place where the energy of the ground
is decent or you clear, and you control that at
that moment in time. That area is all about that,
and it doesn't belong to that stable anymore, not for
the time you're there at all. You must control the
energy in the ground. The ground must be able to
talk to you. The earth and the elementals are there.
Then we bring the owner into the process.
Speaker 3: Have you ever been to a yard where you've not
being able to do that to connect? Yes, yeah, yeah,
we have that trouble. A lot of the ground because
we've had mining, is very closed down or it's angry,
so it's really hard to find areas where it feels
sort of like fairly balanced. So how have you gone
about it when you've had that? Or do spirit not
tend to lead you to those kinds of places?
Speaker 2: And usually those situations are when I didn't believe that
the combined emotional dysfunction.
Speaker 4: Of the people at a particular facility was that strong.
I didn't believe it.
Speaker 2: I was like, ah, these are just small time players.
Well there, that's big time energy and emotional pervasive negativity
is as bad as any neurotalks. And you can feed
a horse, if not worse. And it's the awareness that
that exists. And then is this horse willing to be healed?
Speaker 4: Never mind the person?
Speaker 2: And then where should where should this be at this
barn a little bit or this facility?
Speaker 4: And the people usually.
Speaker 2: Want you in the wrong spot in those places, they
gravitate you to the wrong spot. If that's the case,
then I call in for help to clear the land
and to even ask that this should happen and usually does.
And I think I ask for keepers to come in
and they do the work. Mostly if they thought I
could do it efficiency, they wouldn't do it. They just
tell me to do it. That's how spirit is. I
wish they'd just do it all. But as soon as
you learn a technique like okay, I got you, we'll
help you. Okay, you're ready, Okay, you know what you're doing, great,
and that's pretty soon they go, sorry, it's up to you.
Speaker 4: Now, you do it, you know.
Speaker 2: And in this type of land type energy, usually they're
willing to come in and at least provide a spiritual
bubble around you during that time, you know, and it's critical,
it's critical.
Speaker 3: I was about to say, yeah, what did you call
them keepers?
Speaker 4: Yes, you know.
Speaker 2: Keepers throughout indigenous society. They have different names for them,
but they're essentially the entire earth has areas or yeah,
I want to say areas, biomes whatever, whether it's particular
spiritual being that pervades over that area that is like
a protect are an enhancer and that, and you know,
they have different names for different places, but you can
call them in and It depends where you're at, you know,
but you begin to find an affinity for certain ones
in certain areas that you're used to being in yourself.
Speaker 4: I would encourage you to.
Speaker 2: Begin to feel them and bring them in sometime and
ask what what you can do to help them?
Speaker 4: How about that?
Speaker 3: So sound brilliant, I'm going to try that on the
track where my horses are. We've got we keep joking,
we've got a big foot in the woods down the bottom.
So it's like but there's a little grove of hawthorn
and the energy is so different there. But I've never
actually thought to take my horse down there to do
any energy work with him. So I might actually go
and have a weed with the trees and see, yeah.
Speaker 4: That's a pretty big hit.
Speaker 3: Boy, that's great.
Speaker 2: Is it like a hedge or something?
Speaker 3: And well we're on Yeah, we've got trees on either side.
We're on a track alongside it's a track system alongside
a railway, so it's it's about three quarters of a mile.
But down the bottom where the field is, there's like
a little circle of it's almost like I call it
a grove, but it probably isn't. It's like a little
circle of hawthorn trees, and the energy in there is
just so different. It's it's you know, it almost feels
like a sacred area. That's why I call it a grove.
But I think it's an accident of.
Speaker 4: I'd go play with it, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I'm good. I'm going to try that, thank you.
Speaker 2: I mean, the earth itself well transmute negativity as a
matter of course. So if it is closed off and
flew infused you and you have any deep, deep sup
in a horse, especially unwanted visitors, you can have a
heck of a time releasing those, you know.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, because it collects things. I'm constantly clearing things
off of him. It's like he's a sweeping bush and
he goes around collecting stuff.
Speaker 2: So this is your horse, yes, and so do you?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: So I get it. Well, I mean that's part of
the problem with this kind of work in a lot
of ways is being connected. You know what's funny about
that that brings it up is horses, for all their
unbelievably intuitive ability to communicate cross distances and time and
to other beings. Often my left bring still can't quite
fathom it. I cannot quite fathom it left rationally, they
have trouble managing their energy.
Speaker 4: Often my job with a.
Speaker 2: Gifted spiritual horse is to teach them how to clear
and how to not take. It's kind of interesting phenomena like,
for instance, I'll have horses I remember years ago that
worked at a therapeutic riding place where they worked with
autistic children.
Speaker 4: There you go carry right back to the kids.
Speaker 2: And so these kids would come in and they'd have
these horses that the gallop was running. It was very
open and very interested. She would say, well, this horse
can only work two children a week at the most
because it's completely wiped out afterwards, and on and on
it went.
Speaker 4: So my job was one.
Speaker 2: The physicality of the horses mirrored the physicality of the
kids so much that so that the barn manager would
run back to the barn where she kept her quasi
off this file and come back in tears and say,
here's the kids that this horse works with. And it would,
honest to God to just go right down the line.
And so my job was to teach these horses, which
it didn't dawn on me that they would even need this.
Who am I to do that? But you need to
be aware of the energy coming in to you, and
healing is not moving pain from one to another or
from an artistic child to the horse or whatever. It
is transmuting it to beauty, to pure light. And when
that happened, the horses just seem to get it, and
they could work.
Speaker 4: With many children.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, it's more of just bringing it
to their attention rather than doing.
Speaker 4: Anything about it.
Speaker 2: But they tend to as the species, get caught up
in the same stuff we do, where we don't check
in and go what is not mine, you know, what
is not serving me? And that's key because we live
in a society where we're trained to take on a
whole bunch of other crap. That's the way the game's played,
and the last thing they want us to do is
to clear what doesn't belong to us.
Speaker 4: So and yet that's the first thing spirit wants.
Speaker 2: So that's really good. Indigenous societies teach a two or
three year old when they.
Speaker 4: Cry, is that even yours? And often it isn't.
Speaker 2: And so it should be a part of everyday life
from the get go.
Speaker 1: You know, I think what you said about transmuting, transmuting
pain into beauty, that's such a beautiful sentiment. And I
really like that. And again reflecting on that, when you
say about that circle or that control, or what's mine,
what's not mine? What can I control, what I can't control?
That is something that's fundamental for young people from a
young age and even as adults, because we're not taught
that from social young age. As adults is something that
we really have to try and apply to ourselves. So, yeah,
thank you for sharing us really beautiful sentiments.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean this.
Speaker 2: I guess I call them spiritual principles. I would call
them that are critical and God, we've grown up in
a society where it's so convoluted and so many masks
to try to protect ourselves when.
Speaker 4: Really it's sort of just like, Okay, that's not mine,
that's not that's you know.
Speaker 2: I mean we get that as infants when our mother
or father whoever is critical to us, do certain I
mean super vulnerable when we're little, and it's pretty easy
to damage children just by paying attention to them and
then not paying attention at all, and the children think
they did something wrong. Even as God, breastfeeding infants that's
so critical.
Speaker 4: The mothering process is huge.
Speaker 2: I mean it's huge, and when that gets supplanted, it's
a lifetime of reconnect unless you get really good help.
Speaker 4: Or something you know, And that's the Norman more right, that's.
Speaker 2: Any So here we are in this imperfect, screwed up world,
but that's the way it is.
Speaker 1: I will say the last year or so, I've been
paying quite a lot of attention to the attachment theory
and what that speaks about the relationship between caregivers as
young people and how that affects our being able to
connect with adults or adults and maintaining our relationships, and
what that can look like and how it can be changed.
It can be managed, but it's.
Speaker 3: A lot of work. It's a lot of work.
Speaker 1: And with that in mind as well, when I said
about the barriers that you could maybe come up against
or working with a human and an animal, it sounds
like you have lots of ways of being able to
mitigate that by being animal centered lead. And I know
before you said you've done quite a lot of work
with young people as well. So I think what I
want to ask is your spiritual journey. How the spiritual
journeys are really difficult. It requires a lot of reflecting
and holding the mirror up to yourself sometimes how is
what are what are the things that you've kind of
learned along the way that you if you could tell
your younger self or yourself at the beginning of your journey,
and what would that be?
Speaker 4: Now that's a profound.
Speaker 2: Central question, obviously, I would what comes up right away
is I think, what's guided me that even allowed me
to or even survive different just coming through this life.
The biggest one, I would say, and that is not
probably this is not probably accessible to everybody, but it
is find your core frequency who you really are, and
use that as you or ground use that who you
truly are, who is your higher self? Connect with it
over and over when in doubt.
Speaker 4: Connect with yourself.
Speaker 2: And that has been my saving grace through everything. And
that's where the passion lies. And that's where the absolute
clarity of this is not mine. This is somebody else's
belief and da da da or whatever or expectation, and
then it's easier to shed it, to get rid of it,
to move through a momentum that.
Speaker 4: Allows you to be you. That would be the to me,
should be the key teaching most of us.
Speaker 2: However, in my experience, as adults do not have a
good connection with their higher self that way, you know,
or it also would take would be one five minute
time memory in your life when you or in a
state of.
Speaker 4: Awareness grace.
Speaker 2: That one time is enough to infuse and define the
rest of your life. And so most people have had
profound times, but never deep enough so that it's.
Speaker 4: Guiding people to touch that.
Speaker 2: And so the physical body always is a way to
do any of these things as a way in.
Speaker 4: It's not everything.
Speaker 2: So that center of yourself to me lives where the
ancients say it lives in the center of the center
of the heart, that is your soul.
Speaker 4: And so I can.
Speaker 2: Literally guide people's hands or my hands into that place
literally and help it awaken too the outside. And it's
part of the three central energies the soul, it runs
the vascular system, and so it's a key place to
I think that's just key spiritual You must here. You're
part of the whole, you're part of source. But you
have your unique light, your unique star system, if you will,
and you're meant to be bold and to shine it brightly.
And so that's what healing is period right there. Spirit
is not weak and sort of half hiding behind the
bushes that you spirits walks, walk out into the metal,
walk into the hawthorn trees, and be bold and be
humble and dance with what is.
Speaker 4: That's what it really is.
Speaker 3: I think that's the problem, isn't it? Because we're because
that's the problem I have. It's like you say, it's
it's sort of like you're sort of taught that if
you're spiritual, you've got to be humble and self effacing
and gentle and meek, and like you say, the power
in what you're saying is like, be bold, have strong intent,
clear boundaries, And it's like that that's the complete opposite
of what we're taught. Yep, it's a spiritually centered or
empowered person, is, isn't it. It's or what we've recently
it's been switched to because I presumably you know, it's
slowly gotten twisted over the injuries, is like of what
a truly centered human beings should be and how they
should be in the world.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, you know, and then that is kind of
a paradox from our thinking because being humble and being
in gratitude and compassion and grace, often it would appear soft,
it would be soft, and but it's very powerful, and
it is very bold, and spirit does, like really deep
spiritual issues usually won't occur unless you walk into it boldly.
And you know, like when I get an image or
an essence of a being that's passed that I knew
in form, they don't look anything but bold, and they don't.
They look more wild than they ever did, and not
in a crazy, out of control, but in a beautiful, profound,
powerful way. And yeah, I think we have our concepts
of power has been convoluted so we can be controlled basically.
And yeah, I mean I've seen lots of times we'll
all be looking, you know, you keep going through your
path and you go, oh my god, this is a
profound new thing I got and you're like, no, it's
like the fiftieth or fiftieth thousands time of looking to
the same damn thing, and you know, and you do
that and you go, okay, But every time it's like,
be bold, be powerful, but be gracious.
Speaker 4: I mean runaway.
Speaker 2: Arrogance is weak, boldness, true intent and on purpose with
spiritual drive and your and your purpose, that that's powerful.
And that's not only what's expected, it's it's.
Speaker 4: Where everyone must go eventually, you know.
Speaker 2: And it looks different, but I would in many ways
call that the balance of the divine feminine in a
lot of ways. So you know, we have this runaway
well I think we're talking about is the runaway imbalanced
patrilineal control so that I don't have to look myself
in the mirror. I just beat other people down so
I fuilt higher up, as opposed to a balanced patrilineal
approach of boldness and divine femininity, with femininity which is
extremely powerful and provable on a normal physical basis as well.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, because I was saying to a friend
a little while ago that the women are supposed to
be powerful, because he was talking about, like, you know,
the role of women, and I was like, no, women
are supposed to be powerful. And it's like that that,
you know, It's it's sort of like like you say,
the divine feminine isn't all receiving. It can be toosing,
nailed to defend, and it can be gentle and receiving,
but it's ferocious at the same time. It can be ferocious,
and it's like we are meant to have connection to
that as much as to the nurture.
Speaker 2: Of absolutely and I would I would think that this
planet as a being and us as a species on
this planet, that's probably the crux of our transition period
right now. It's learning how to become that more and
the old patrilineal out of balance systems are fighting for
their survival and I don't think they're going to so uh.
Speaker 4: Balance.
Speaker 2: Male energy is absolutely critical as well. So I mean,
one thing you can do that is a I like
three D proof in the pudding, and you can do this.
I've done it with my four year old granddaughters, but
I do it with students often, and that is a
simple you physically, here's the three D tough male thing.
I'm going to make a super strong circle between my
index finger and thumb. This is just a good example.
There are hundreds and then you get somebody else and
they take both their hands and obviously they have massive
physical dominance to pull that apart. So if you use physical,
normal masculine energy to hold this, there is no way
you're gonna be a behold it. And if however, and
I'm talking about super strong physicality on this little circle,
if you envision the divine feminine envision a solid circle.
That might need to be steel, it might need to
be energy, it might just need to be an unbreakable circle.
You cannot open that up. The strongest mill on the
planet can't move it. And so it's in that sense
of intention. But it's a bold intention if it's like, well,
I can envision a steel circle. Not if you don't
have pure intention, this is going to be broken. When
you have pure intention, it's unbreakable. It's way beyond the
physical and that is part of the process of us
stepping into our power. And that's just a tiny aspect
of it. So we need that three D verification.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, I suppose that's understanding that the
physical isn't as strong as the metaphysical exactly technology for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Or that the physical is a reflection of the
aspects of the spiritual self working or not. Yeah, And
to me that.
Speaker 4: Would be probably the priority. It's the other way around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the energy first. It's vibration first, you know, so
as much as possible working on the physical body, you need,
I think, to be an effective healer, you need to
engage the tissue energetically first and then physically, and it
will reset with a true massive physical release I mean
on a constant basis, But it's the energy interface that's
the key driver of really good healing. If you're going
to touch o horse, you know, and not work off body,
which I don't much. But you know, you guys have
osteopaths in the UK. Yeah, so that came from the
United States. But my point of bringing that up is
in the United States now there are more osteopathic universities
than ever and almost zero traditional osteopaths coming out of that.
So in the UK there still are some traditional ossiopaths,
and they are they engaged the tissue physically, but they
engage A true osteopath is going to go in energetically
and then physical and can do all the manipulation and
all that from a physical standpoint. But even in Europe,
most of the ostiopaths on horses tend to just be physiotherapists.
Speaker 4: They manipulate soft tissue directly.
Speaker 2: They're not doing energetic interface, let alone of spiritual entity
or something like that. So the true ossipaths are different
because of the idea of an energetic connection to the
physical body. So I mean that allows us entry into
tissue anywhere way down there and what's just phenomenal about it?
And I run the skeptic really hard, meaning if something
spiritually profound or physically profound, I really test it to
see it so that I can truly know talk be
with it. And if later on it works, to teach
it and we can go and you can go into
teach you all the time at like five six inches
deep on a horse, Oh my god, moren that. And
as you get there, whatever physicality is there lights up
in your hands just like you're there and you have
access to it just as if you do. And this
is an innate skill. I mean I teach that in
people for a living, and very few cannot do that.
Speaker 4: And if they won't do it's because of their own belief.
Speaker 2: I just teach them how to reacquaint themselves with It's
in innate skill. I mean, little kids don't know they
don't have it. They just have it and why because
it's there. And that's I mean, you learn what to
do with it and more efficacy with it. But it's
all energy first. The outcomes are totally different when you can.
Speaker 3: Do that, you know, yeah, because it's like the horses.
Horses are so physically massive it's like if you don't
have that energetic connection first, you can't physically get deep
enough into the tissue without actually being able to connect
to it, if that makes sense, because mass muscle, yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, so most body workers, even really good ones
or even most osteopaths, well like they want to go
into I mean to me, the key key one is
if you would know if you're worth your salt.
Speaker 4: The esophagal hiatus.
Speaker 2: Which on us you know is is right here, and
that's a key area for us. It's a key area
for them. And to get to that you'd have to
push a to B to see you didn't have to
be so abusive, and maybe you might get a little
bit of it. Whereas if you know how to, you
go into it and take the elevator ride down and
then you have it. But even then, once it's ready
to go and it's unwinding, it comes to a crescendo,
it doesn't get better. It gets worse for a second
and you have a hold of it in your hand
like an energy syst. At that point, the horses are standing,
so I must get them to move, and it's in
their step is when it.
Speaker 4: Releases, So I do so it's physical at.
Speaker 2: That point, plenty physical, but only after the energetic setup
and the readiness for the energy to leave, and you
need to help it find a way out. So even
in people standing, like an old human owner standing, if
I go into an organ, let's say it's a liver,
and I find out where in the liver it is,
and it will always.
Speaker 4: Have a focal point.
Speaker 2: So I go after that focal point and talk to
it and see what it is. And if it's just
a physicality or a little emotion, as it gets ready
to go, I need them to step. If the person
was on the table, it would be different. But there's
something about standing on the earth with that as its steps,
there's some sort of an opening. And so that's when
my students call it a nudge. I nudge it, and
that's a physical nudge, an energetic physical nudge.
Speaker 4: So they do it all day.
Speaker 5: On a horse, you know, But yeah, that's yeah, because
I've always found out when I've done I found it
easier to do bodywork on like energetic slash bodywork on
horses than people.
Speaker 3: But if I the few times I have done the
same kind of thing on people, I've always found it
easier if they're standing up then if they're sitting down
or lying down. So that's really interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that's a phenomena that you know, I
think probably the applied kinesiology guys have it more handled
than that. When you're standing and you're standing and firing
off all your pro reception and your neurology and your
normal way of being on the planet in movement, if
you will, there's just standing there. The body's engaged in
a different way than when you're laying down passively. And
I think sometimes it's appropriate, you know, to be in
a passive, relaxed state, certainly, but I would say there's
a lot of times where it isn't. So I would
encourage body workers when they're having trouble with a human
and they think it's in this realm to ask the
person to get off the table and stand up, and
as they step engage it deeper and watch what happens,
and they'll find that there'll be times when that's appropriate
and times maybe it isn't.
Speaker 3: You know, that's interesting, that's really interesting.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've told some of my students my events
is like one of these days you've got to get
a horse to to like lay between bales of hay
or straw side down like a human on a table
and see how that works and do a YouTube video
on that so I can like laugh at it with
him or whatever.
Speaker 4: But it'd be kind of cool to watch. I don't
think it'll work any better, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you got the horse trainers there, it would
be quite interesting to say, just lay there really see
how your buddy feels.
Speaker 2: When yeah, I gotcha, Sorry, I got a big guy
that's hanging out. Yeah. So, yeah, it's fascinating that the
physical energetic interface is fascinating and that's always going to
show and give you patterns of dysfunction on all kinds
of spiritual issues for sure, you know always. So I
don't know if you want to talk about any of
that or not, or or how to interface that.
Speaker 3: I'm I don't know how long we've got, Corry.
Speaker 1: I was, yeah, we're nearly yeah, near the end of
the show. I think it would be really good if
we were able to book another show with you, Tom
to kind of go. I've learned a lot from chat
with you for the last hour. I'd love to know more.
So I think it'd be fantastic to put you back
into maybe we can publish as a part one. We're
part two pending. There'll be a really good idea.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can do that in there.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know we I mean, if you just
want to be a good body worker, let's just call
it that for a minute. And as you go through
the horse's body, especially organs, you're going to run into
emotional holding like lung and grief and anger and liver
and all that and liver. But what you're also going
to run into is dark entity. And that begs the
question if you when you get in there, what kind
of patterns would a layperson find when they do that?
So you talk about that later. I mean one of
the key points of that is these areas that are
in dysfunction in an organ will be limited to a
central focus, and meaning they're not they affect the whole organ,
but they're an energetic frequency that emanates in a sphere
of discordant heavy energy. You can pick it up off
the body real easy and circuit located right into the center,
and at that point it should begin to begin to
want to unwind if it runs and takes off because
you shine light on it. Those are always dark entities,
so you have to decide. Yeah, they run. So there's
a way to deal with that that I've kind of
been pushed into, and it is.
Speaker 4: I follow them.
Speaker 2: They run, and I just follow them till they get
them in a corner and I haven't cornered, and at
that point they're not if they're not meant to be there,
which you say they aren't. I literally embraced that and
shine light and blow them into the earth through and
they don't come out if I don't do a good job.
Often you'll see anybody who's in the vicinity will feel
a clean energy.
Speaker 4: So we have to stop and clear everybody. But usually
the earth.
Speaker 2: Handles it no problem. But there's a real pure example
of pure intent. If you don't have pure intent, do
not follow them. Yeah, back off, leave it alone for
somebody else another time, you know.
Speaker 4: But there's lots of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fascinating because I mean I've had some stranger
my last torst I lost a few years ago. I
mean I've had he used to have a lot of
things like that, and I've had experiences where I've like
had my hand on his hoof and I've felt the
hoof pulse as if it was a drum skin and
someone's beat it from the other side, and it was
like through the hoof wall, which is theoretically sort of solid,
more solid than flet and it's like and he looked
at me, and I looked at him, and I was like,
what the hell was that, because it was like something
came up, rose up and pulsed against my hand. And
it was the bizarrest thing because I got my hand
on his heath, so you couldn't say, oh, it's a
muscle twitch or something. And I've had the same thing,
whether I've have my hand on the rip his ribs.
It's almost like something's come up out of the depths
and sort of pulsed against my hand and then gone again.
And I was just like that, that's not hoarse, that
you know, And like you say, it's sort of like
trying to decide whether to hang on to it or
whether to sort of just leave it beef for now
and then just keep an eye on And like you say,
weren't you're in a situation to deal with it better
because you don't always know quite what's on the other
end of it.
Speaker 2: Because that's true, that's true, and sometimes you best leave
it alone. But I think it's best to get a
sense of when you basically barely touch it or pick
up the energy of it.
Speaker 4: Is this serving this being?
Speaker 2: I literally asked the horse, is this something that you
choose to have? And then even then is it something
that are you meant to remove? To transmute would be
a better term, and not to release, but to let
it go into transmutation. Releasing it will come back maybe softer.
But and then there are energies that are benevolent and
or are benevolitally intended.
Speaker 4: Let's just put it that way.
Speaker 2: So I tend to at this point in time want
to ask the horse, is this something you need anymore?
Speaker 4: And most horse of all automatically no, go for it.
Speaker 2: Go for it. And at that point I think we
partner with other beings and it must be it has
to be absolutely pure intent, or don't go there. Those
energies are not usually even the real strong ones that
create all kinds of nasty reactions. Usually they are not
that powerful.
Speaker 4: If you.
Speaker 2: Have that kind of strong intention, when you're doubting, is
when you're going to get in trouble.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I learned that way, the hard way, you know.
Speaker 2: So uh yeah, and you know where you don't believe
that's really going on, and then you go, oh, don't
play with fire unless you're willing to put it out.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Yes, I can concur with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And then what I feeling from your site
is there's a lot of discarnates there.
Speaker 3: Yes, there is, and that.
Speaker 2: Is a different type of thing than a whole different process.
You don't blow those out. You help them, Yeah, you
negotiate them to leave and to go home.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's this thing. I mean, like with my journey
with the horses, I started off with the entities and
then ended up with dicarnate. So it like I've sort
of I've weirdly found it easier to deal with the
entities than the discarnate. Yes, I'm still figuring that one out.
But there is a lot around here. I don't know
about kerries. And but I mean where I live is
very old, and like say, the horses just seem to
you know, souk them up. It's like it's icons.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there are magnets to certain people that like that.
Speaker 2: Usually it's a person that well, they utilize the horses
to feel moralive right, So like out here where I'm
at historically would be very young compared to you guys
are extremely young. Yet there is a pretty good percentage
of discarnates because this was the area where the California
Gold Rust was in the eighteen hundreds, and so it
was a massive migration quickly of human beings. In fact,
I guess it was the largest single mass migration in
the planet. And the point is they all came here
in a very quick time and a lot of people
lost their life violently in a small geographical area. So yeah,
you get people that didn't quite pass over properly. And anyway,
you'll see that horses pick them up at times, or
their owners and then the horse picks kind of messes
with it that way.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's fascinating, absolutely fascinating. Kerry, I better hand
back to you because I'm talking about Yeah. No, I
definitely would love to hear the paranormal is my bag.
Speaker 1: I have a little bit more experience, but I've learned
so much from this evening, so I want to say
thank you so much for joining us. We are coming
to the end of the show, so we definitely will
want to book in a part two, because I'd love
to hear more about those experiences. So those that have
listened this evening, if they want to reach out to you,
or they want to find out more about you or
cea more of your content, where would be the best
way of being able to reach out or see that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably website, So it's Tommays dot net. T O
M M A yes, dot net. I'm I have some
YouTube videos, a few other podcasts are floating around, and
but probably that would be the best jump jump off
right there. You know, my kind of push now is
to put out some more videos that go into deeper aspects,
you know, and Facebook as well. Integrated Equine Therapies is
the name of my company, and so there are some
posts on that. Some of them allude to exactly what
we're talking about in different ways, right. I just did
one on calling in the ancestors to a horse and
what it means and what it does in the three
D world and it's kind of a natural aspect of
equist to do that and so stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But anyway, yeah, we'll make sure to share some of
that onto our Facebook pages.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Thank you.
Speaker 4: My pleasure has been great talking with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I really appre I really appreciate the
advice as well, because I'm so going to do that
with my horse. It's like, yeah, that's that's just like
quite exciting. I love that. Thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 1: So I want to say thank you for everyone that's
joined us today, this evening, this morning, wherever you are
in the world, and we shall be back next week.
Speaker 5: Bye Pact the best by reading