1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Hey, folks, we are recording at the Injective Policy Summit 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,480 powered by the Blockchain Association, and joining me is Krysta Lynch, 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,199 who's the head of Capital Markets and Trading at Grayscale. Christa, 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:15,919 great to have you. 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me. 6 00:00:17,359 --> 00:00:19,559 Speaker 1: We've done a virtual interview, so this is our first 7 00:00:19,559 --> 00:00:21,839 in person, so really really awesome to be doing this 8 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:22,120 with you. 9 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad we can do it in three dimensions 10 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:25,239 today for sure. 11 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,039 Speaker 1: So Christa, tell us a bit about what's the latest 12 00:00:28,079 --> 00:00:30,280 with Grayscale. What are some new products that you guys 13 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:30,800 have launched. 14 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're continuing to launch new single token products. 15 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,640 The generic listing standards, which I think we touched on 16 00:00:36,759 --> 00:00:40,079 last time we spoke, really created a framework for bringing 17 00:00:40,119 --> 00:00:43,280 single tokens to market in ETF form, and we're really 18 00:00:43,359 --> 00:00:46,039 excited now we're able to select tokens that we have 19 00:00:46,119 --> 00:00:49,200 a lot of conviction about to deliver in that way. 20 00:00:49,759 --> 00:00:52,960 One that we just launched is hype g. Hypg is 21 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,560 the ticker. It's on the hyper liquid protocol and we're 22 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,159 really excited about hyper Liquid for a couple of reasons. 23 00:00:58,399 --> 00:01:00,960 We'll probably get into perpetual futures and some of the 24 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,159 prevalence they've had in the markets recently, but our hype 25 00:01:04,159 --> 00:01:09,319 product is a way to really express conviction on that protocol. Now, 26 00:01:09,359 --> 00:01:12,200 some other areas we've been focusing on. You know, we'd 27 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,400 be remiss if we didn't talk about how prices have 28 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,239 broadly been flat. We've been working a lot in the 29 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,400 background on some of the infrastructure in order to enhance 30 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,840 existing products that covers things like in kind abilities, staking, 31 00:01:25,239 --> 00:01:28,079 and then also beefing up our educational program. So the 32 00:01:28,079 --> 00:01:32,040 Greyscale Institute is an educational resource we've launched in the 33 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,599 past few months as a way for investors to get 34 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,920 more up to speed on cryptotopics. Also, The Stack, run 35 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,519 by our head of research, Zach Pandle, is a very 36 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,079 active blog that we've been posting a lot on recently. 37 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,920 So building up some stuff in the background to keep 38 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,319 the exuberant up even though the prices might not be 39 00:01:48,359 --> 00:01:49,719 the most exciting thing right now. 40 00:01:50,079 --> 00:01:52,959 Speaker 1: It's really great to hear that you're educating institutions in 41 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,319 these folks because that's so needed for the adoption and 42 00:01:56,359 --> 00:01:58,920 for this acid class and technology to grow an adoption 43 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,640 over time. You mentioned staking, so during this period with 44 00:02:02,719 --> 00:02:05,239 the markets down. Are you seeing more folks starting to steak? 45 00:02:05,959 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the ETFs have really opened up that ability. 46 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,759 Like for me as an example, even though I work 47 00:02:11,759 --> 00:02:13,919 in the crypto industry, I have a lot of crypto 48 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,599 touch points. I'm not ready to stake my own assets personally, 49 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,120 but I am willing and able to stake them through 50 00:02:20,159 --> 00:02:23,120 a product like a grayscale ETF. So I think that 51 00:02:23,159 --> 00:02:26,599 we've seen the ability for ETFs to implement staking as 52 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,319 a way for more investors to get involved in the 53 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,319 staking landscape. And then as we roll out more tokens, 54 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,599 a lot of them are proof of steak assets, and 55 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,840 so that's another way that steaking is becoming more mainstream. 56 00:02:38,159 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: And I remember a product you guys were first to launch. 57 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,719 I think it was the index like top five yep. 58 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,759 Are you seeing more exposure to that because investors in 59 00:02:46,759 --> 00:02:49,680 the most part look for index investing options. 60 00:02:49,759 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 2: Yes. So GDLC is the ticker there, the greyscale coin 61 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,759 Desk Crypto five, And I think that that becomes an 62 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,280 even more compelling product over time as more single token 63 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,560 assets come to market in ETF form, because there are 64 00:03:02,599 --> 00:03:05,280 so many of them, So we see that a lot 65 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,879 of investors are ready to get beyond bitcoin, or perhaps 66 00:03:08,879 --> 00:03:11,080 they're still at the beginning of their crypto journey, but 67 00:03:11,199 --> 00:03:13,879 taking that jump and moving beyond it can be quite 68 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,400 intimidating when there are so many possibilities. So a product 69 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,840 like GDLC, which captures about ninety percent of the crypto 70 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,159 market in one simple ticker, is very compelling. As more 71 00:03:24,199 --> 00:03:27,680 single tokens hit the market in this easy to digest 72 00:03:27,719 --> 00:03:31,080 ETF form, the menu gets bigger, which is great for 73 00:03:31,159 --> 00:03:33,599 investor choice but can also be overwhelming. 74 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the index makes it way. I don't have 75 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,199 to think it's the exposure like the S and P 76 00:03:39,319 --> 00:03:41,120 five hundred or a NASDAG exactly. 77 00:03:41,159 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: We like to liken it to the S and P 78 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,599 five hundred. And you can delegate that token selection to 79 00:03:45,919 --> 00:03:48,639 an asset manager like Grayscale, so that you don't have 80 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,240 to go out in diligence all of the protocols individually yourself. 81 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,639 Speaker 1: Would Will there be over time a top ten or 82 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,439 top twenty year, top hundred eventually. 83 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: I think that's the direction of travel. I personally am 84 00:04:00,199 --> 00:04:03,800 optimistic that that will be something of the future. For context, 85 00:04:03,879 --> 00:04:06,800 I used to work on fixed income ETFs and they 86 00:04:06,879 --> 00:04:10,439 use a very specific methodology called stratified sampling to really 87 00:04:10,479 --> 00:04:14,800 facilitate large baskets of underlying assets, and so selfishly, I'm 88 00:04:14,919 --> 00:04:17,199 very excited for a time when we have to use 89 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,079 stratified sampling for crypto ETFs. Of course that would require 90 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,000 a lot more underliars to be in the basket, but 91 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,360 like you said, you know, a crypto ten, a crypto twenty, 92 00:04:26,399 --> 00:04:28,639 a crypto thirty, so on and so forth could make 93 00:04:28,639 --> 00:04:29,399 that a reality. 94 00:04:30,199 --> 00:04:33,079 Speaker 1: So on that note, what this is a very broad question, 95 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,079 but I'm curious to get your thoughts. What does the 96 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,120 future of crypto ETFs look like. We have the spot, 97 00:04:38,199 --> 00:04:42,120 we have futures, we have staking what else exists in 98 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,000 the TRATFI world that is missing from crypto. 99 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that continuing to enhance our products through 100 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,600 features like in kind is something that it's not lacking, 101 00:04:51,639 --> 00:04:55,560 but it hasn't necessarily gotten full mainstream adoption yet. So 102 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,199 one possible use case or somewhere where we're seeing a 103 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,439 lot of enthusiasm there for crypto natives who have underlying 104 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,680 token to actually use the inkind mechanism to put their 105 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,879 token into the ETF and through that means they're able 106 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,519 to still maintain the same underlying exposure, but actually get 107 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,480 all the bells and whistles of their brokerage accounts, such 108 00:05:15,519 --> 00:05:21,319 as tax planning, ability to have succession planning on their accounts, transparency, 109 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,360 things like that, just having everything in one place. So 110 00:05:24,439 --> 00:05:27,360 I think that it's not something that's missing, but it's 111 00:05:27,399 --> 00:05:30,120 something that a lot of investors aren't yet fully aware 112 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,800 of or haven't fully adopted, and I think that's an 113 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:38,120 area of expansion. It's simple, but it's really beautiful, and. 114 00:05:38,079 --> 00:05:41,639 Speaker 1: It seems like ETFs are the preferred way or avenue 115 00:05:41,639 --> 00:05:43,720 for folks to invest in crypto. It makes it easy. 116 00:05:43,879 --> 00:05:46,319 It could be in their retirement account, in a brokerage account. 117 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,000 Do you see that trend continuing? 118 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 2: I do. I think it's just so transferable. Like you said, 119 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,040 we're doing a lot of education with the advisor community 120 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,800 right now, and a lot of those conversations started months 121 00:05:57,879 --> 00:06:00,480 or even years ago to help them get comfortable with 122 00:06:00,519 --> 00:06:04,160 the underlying asset class and delivering it in the ETF format. 123 00:06:04,439 --> 00:06:06,439 And I think that as they get comfortable, as a 124 00:06:06,439 --> 00:06:09,720 lot of these conversations come to completion, then you're going 125 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,720 to start to see more adoption of bitcoin and other 126 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,199 digital asset ETFs because that is such a transferable and 127 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,439 such an accessible way for advisors to put their clients 128 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,439 into these assets. And the second thing I would say 129 00:06:22,439 --> 00:06:26,199 there is because advisors are now getting comfortable, it's also 130 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,680 a way for them to have a holistic picture of 131 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,399 what their client's wealth is. So if you think about 132 00:06:31,439 --> 00:06:34,639 someone that has token but it's outside of the advised channel, 133 00:06:34,879 --> 00:06:37,800 the advisor is actually able to use that inkind mechanism 134 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,560 that I mentioned to bring those assets in scope and 135 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,079 put it in their advised account. 136 00:06:43,199 --> 00:06:46,879 Speaker 1: And are you seeing more ris be more open to 137 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,680 offering this to their clients as time progresses, education and 138 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:50,480 things like that. 139 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: They definitely are. These conversations have been ongoing for so long, 140 00:06:53,879 --> 00:06:56,879 but we're finally starting to see some approvals. We're starting 141 00:06:56,879 --> 00:07:00,399 to see some of the green shoots of actual investment, 142 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,120 and it's so satisfying and rewarding to have had a 143 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,279 two year long conversation and finally see that investment come through. 144 00:07:06,639 --> 00:07:09,319 Speaker 1: And what may help take that to the next level 145 00:07:09,399 --> 00:07:11,800 is potentially the Clarity Act passing. Do you seeing that 146 00:07:11,879 --> 00:07:14,800 be that that might be a catalyst to bring in 147 00:07:14,839 --> 00:07:15,639 more investments? 148 00:07:15,759 --> 00:07:19,959 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think that more regulation, although it might be counterintuitive, 149 00:07:20,079 --> 00:07:24,920 is actually quite helpful for builders and investors alike, because 150 00:07:25,279 --> 00:07:28,000 if you think about building or investing in something that 151 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:32,360 could change through new regulation or just overnight regime change, 152 00:07:32,439 --> 00:07:35,560 it's very disconcerting, and I think that you see people 153 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,839 sit on the sidelines in the absence of having that clarity. 154 00:07:38,879 --> 00:07:41,319 No pun intended, but I think that the passing of 155 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,639 the Clarity Act would be a major catalyst, and we're 156 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,319 very optimistic that in the coming days. I know we're 157 00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:49,279 getting down to the wire, but it is still possible 158 00:07:49,279 --> 00:07:51,480 that it passes this summer, and I think that would 159 00:07:51,519 --> 00:07:54,519 also help to be a catalyst for crypto prices moving 160 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:55,439 in sympathy with it. 161 00:07:55,959 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: Absolutely, it feels like the market is nearing a bottom, 162 00:07:58,839 --> 00:08:02,199 right we hope, we hope. You know some I do 163 00:08:02,199 --> 00:08:04,920 a little bit of chart analysis on my amateur hour, 164 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,959 but still it feels that way, and look, markets are cyclicals. 165 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,000 I feel like going towards the end of the year, 166 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:12,879 we'll probably be back in a better place. 167 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,759 Speaker 2: I think we're optimistic and I think for us as 168 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,279 a group of people that are overall long term conviction 169 00:08:19,439 --> 00:08:21,680 in the asset class, we try not to sweat the 170 00:08:21,959 --> 00:08:25,560 small downturns. You know, I would also say that this 171 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,439 particular downturn has felt more mature and less volatile than others. 172 00:08:29,879 --> 00:08:31,600 You know, we I think I pulled a stat for 173 00:08:31,639 --> 00:08:34,120 another podcast where there were times when it wouldn't be 174 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,399 unusual to see a ten percent down in one day, 175 00:08:37,759 --> 00:08:40,159 and I think during the most recent downturn, the most 176 00:08:40,159 --> 00:08:43,519 we've seen is two three percent. So while that's still 177 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,360 significant and I understand why it might rattle investors, it 178 00:08:47,519 --> 00:08:50,080 is very different from the environment that we were in 179 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,639 in past downturns. And I will also say, you know, 180 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,200 you look at the bitcoin ETFs as an example. They've 181 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,440 been able to process billions of dollars in outflows, which 182 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,879 is not what we want to see, but it does 183 00:09:01,919 --> 00:09:05,399 demonstrate the orderly nature of these markets. They're able to 184 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,799 consume in a very liquid way, both inflows and outflows, 185 00:09:09,799 --> 00:09:12,320 which speaks to the validity of the ETF wrapper for 186 00:09:12,399 --> 00:09:13,279 this asset class. 187 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,879 Speaker 1: It's very healthy to have that, right, yes it you. 188 00:09:15,799 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 2: Know, I say it cometh and goeth. You want to 189 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,200 see it cometh, but sometimes it does go with And 190 00:09:20,279 --> 00:09:22,799 as long as the uh the asset is able to 191 00:09:22,879 --> 00:09:25,639 flow in that way, then it demonstrates that the rapper 192 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:26,519 is doing its job. 193 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: And when you zoom out from a macro perspective, I'm 194 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,240 talking like five year window, you see that even though 195 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,159 there's ebbs and flows with inflows and outflows and I 196 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,600 said a lot of flows there, the overall trend is still. 197 00:09:38,519 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, and we try to focus on that. Like 198 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,759 I said, we have long term conviction in the asset class, 199 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,360 so try not to sweat the small stuff, although of 200 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,919 course it can be a little disconcerting while you're in 201 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:49,440 that moment. 202 00:09:49,919 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, this happens in the stock market too. 203 00:09:52,519 --> 00:09:55,120 I mean I just would have an IBM, yeah, just 204 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,799 the other day. So it's it's just as long as 205 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,559 you have the macro view and the fun mentals are 206 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,480 so strong, solid case to just invest and leave it. 207 00:10:04,919 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 2: I think so. And it's also a very good time 208 00:10:07,159 --> 00:10:09,720 to be working on some of these infrastructure builds for 209 00:10:09,799 --> 00:10:13,320 our side, the asset manager side, building out the capabilities 210 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,720 to stake, to be able to do in kind and 211 00:10:15,799 --> 00:10:19,000 those types of investments. You know, we talk about infrastructure. 212 00:10:19,039 --> 00:10:21,080 I think we're also seeing a lot of behind the 213 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,120 scenes investment in things like stable coin rails. We see 214 00:10:25,159 --> 00:10:27,679 banks that are really starting to lean into the efficiencies 215 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,360 that this can bring. And so while you don't necessarily 216 00:10:30,399 --> 00:10:33,840 see that in price appreciation, I think we do see 217 00:10:33,879 --> 00:10:36,679 real investment in the space, and that's still to me 218 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,799 indicative of the overall long term trajectory of this asset class. 219 00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: You mentioned investment in the stable coin rails. Do you 220 00:10:44,159 --> 00:10:48,879 guys offer etms around stocks for companies like Circle and 221 00:10:48,919 --> 00:10:51,360 your others that are public in an ETF wrapper. 222 00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:54,159 Speaker 2: We have a couple equity thematic products that we like 223 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,480 to say, if you're ready to invest in bitcoin, but 224 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,279 maybe you still want that kind of old school mentality, 225 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:00,879 if I want to read the balance sheet, I want 226 00:11:00,879 --> 00:11:02,480 to go touch the headquarters building. 227 00:11:02,879 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: We have that. 228 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 2: We have that for bitcoin on balance sheet and also 229 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,399 bitcoin minors, and those are a couple equity products that 230 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,559 are crypto adjacent ways, or i should say equity expressions 231 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,320 of bitcoin adjacent investment opportunities. 232 00:11:16,639 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really great, especially with the backdrop of so 233 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,919 many crypto companies going public yet Securitize go public recently, 234 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:24,440 so it's exciting. There's going to be even more. 235 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,759 Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, and. 236 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,879 Speaker 1: In those equity et aps, does it don't also include 237 00:11:31,039 --> 00:11:34,120 general companies like your SpaceX which has bitcoin in your balance. 238 00:11:33,919 --> 00:11:36,519 Speaker 2: Sheet, so it would be a candidate for a Bitcoin 239 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,679 on balance sheet products. It rebalances quarterly and it will 240 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,120 look at features like who has decided to take the 241 00:11:42,159 --> 00:11:45,200 management decision to put bitcoin on balance sheet. When we 242 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,320 first rolled out this product, we thought that a management 243 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,360 decision to put bitcoin on balance sheet might be indicative 244 00:11:51,399 --> 00:11:54,639 of a forward thinking management approach. And I think that 245 00:11:54,639 --> 00:11:57,519 that was really one of the compelling selling points of 246 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,960 digital asset treasuries, which this is basically a basket. 247 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,039 Speaker 1: Of yeah, and it makes sense. I personally think it's 248 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,600 great to have exposure to both. I hold the crypto assets, 249 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,399 you know, and then also the equity play you get 250 00:12:09,399 --> 00:12:10,080 exposure to both. 251 00:12:10,159 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 2: There's so many different flavors of how you can get 252 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,320 bitcoin exposure. And another one that we offer is actually 253 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,480 options based, so derivatives on bitcoin, and it's a way 254 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,399 to get yield on your bitcoin or ethereum exposure, and 255 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,440 that's a covered call strategy. So I think that you know, 256 00:12:26,519 --> 00:12:29,919 investors are starting with bitcoin, which makes sense, and sometimes 257 00:12:29,919 --> 00:12:32,879 they don't necessarily go linear in a linear manner to 258 00:12:32,919 --> 00:12:35,679 the next token. They actually go sideways, so they find 259 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,519 different ways to invest in the token that they've gotten 260 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,960 comfortable with, and that's different ways to express that Bitcoin exposure. 261 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. Diversification. 262 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,279 Speaker 2: I think it's yes, right, not only in token, but 263 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:47,559 how you hold it, how. 264 00:12:47,399 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: You hold it? Yeah, what's on your road map that 265 00:12:50,279 --> 00:12:50,759 you can share. 266 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 2: So we've got a couple more single token products that 267 00:12:53,519 --> 00:12:56,759 we filed for that we're very excited about. Like I said, 268 00:12:56,799 --> 00:12:59,440 the generic listing standards have opened the range of what's 269 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,039 possible from an ETF standpoint, and it's exciting now to 270 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,320 be at a stage where we can really overlay our 271 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,919 cryptonative expertise in selecting which tokens we bring to market, 272 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,720 whereas before it was kind of like the choice is bitcoin, 273 00:13:11,799 --> 00:13:15,000 that's what you're working with. So very excited about that. 274 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,840 And then some of these infrastructure plays on the back end. 275 00:13:18,519 --> 00:13:20,759 And then I would say also being a student of 276 00:13:20,799 --> 00:13:23,120 the markets. So right now there's a lot of things 277 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,639 like what we've talked about with clarity that could potentially 278 00:13:26,799 --> 00:13:29,720 give us more clarity no pun intended about the rules 279 00:13:29,759 --> 00:13:31,840 of the road for the future, and I think that 280 00:13:31,919 --> 00:13:33,600 a lot of those are in weight and see mode. 281 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,559 But we are very much keeping an eye on trends 282 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:41,799 like tokenization, prediction markets, all of these crypto adjacent technologies, 283 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:43,919 and I think that that's also going to be a 284 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,159 very exciting area once we get more clarity about how 285 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:48,480 precisely we can operate. 286 00:13:48,799 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was as you were talking about it, I thought, oh, wait, 287 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,120 I gotta have to ask you about tokenization because there's 288 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,759 so many assets going on chain yep, how would that 289 00:13:55,799 --> 00:13:57,480 live in an ETF I know it's very early. We're 290 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,840 waiting on the SEC to provide guidance and things like that. 291 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 2: Well, with tokenization, what I think is interesting. I go 292 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,480 to a lot of traditional finance conferences as well as 293 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,480 today is more crypto native, and I think the conversation 294 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,120 from a traditional lens is often why do I need 295 00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:13,759 to tokenize apple stock? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 296 00:14:14,159 --> 00:14:16,320 But if you think about the conversation we were having 297 00:14:16,399 --> 00:14:19,039 just a couple of years ago on stable coins, it 298 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:20,759 was pretty similar. It was why do I need to 299 00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:23,240 tokenize a dollar? Why do I need to tokenize fiat? 300 00:14:23,559 --> 00:14:25,960 And now we're seeing these real use cases for it 301 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,279 with banks adopting it to be more efficient and so 302 00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:31,440 on and so forth, and that really progressed quite quickly. 303 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:33,480 I think that it could be a similar story for 304 00:14:33,559 --> 00:14:36,600 tokenization of equities and then potentially even beyond to real 305 00:14:36,639 --> 00:14:40,399 world assets like you know, buildings, private credit, other things. 306 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: Like that, and then ETFs themselves potentially being tokenized. 307 00:14:43,399 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, the sky is the limit for what can 308 00:14:45,639 --> 00:14:48,360 be tokenized, and I think that we're going to have 309 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,159 a lot of opportunity ahead of us. 310 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,159 Speaker 1: For sure. And I think one thing a lot of 311 00:14:53,159 --> 00:14:56,600 people sometimes miss is by tokenizing these assets, you're able 312 00:14:56,639 --> 00:14:59,080 to take them global because not everyone can access the 313 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,919 stocks on in your soccer change or a NASAC. That's right, 314 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,600 and if they just have a crypto wallet, they can 315 00:15:03,639 --> 00:15:05,879 access to tokenized version they get put it to work 316 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:07,440 defie et cetera. 317 00:15:07,639 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 2: And that's been one of the biggest selling points that 318 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,480 we've seen thus far. A lot of our international trading 319 00:15:12,519 --> 00:15:15,639 partners are pointing out that benefit and to get ETF 320 00:15:15,679 --> 00:15:17,480 NERD for a moment. If you want to bring an 321 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,519 ETF to other markets, there's actually different structures that you 322 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,600 have to abide by, but this is a way that 323 00:15:22,639 --> 00:15:26,480 you can have one universal ETF that's really accessible to all. 324 00:15:26,639 --> 00:15:29,440 So I think that that is a very compelling use case. Also, 325 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,159 the twenty four to seven nature is a big reason 326 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,679 that we see advocacy for tokenization. 327 00:15:35,559 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: Well, I look forward to seeing the gray scale ETFs 328 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,399 tokenize and accessible globally. That that's really cool. Gray Scale, 329 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,120 of course, got to give you guys your kudos fighting 330 00:15:45,159 --> 00:15:48,519 the sec back into gallery Gansler days. Being first in 331 00:15:48,519 --> 00:15:50,200 a market with a lot of ETF products, you guys 332 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:51,879 have led the charge in many ways. 333 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,679 Speaker 2: We really appreciate the shout out and yes it's been 334 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,840 a wild ride, but a very exciting one. 335 00:15:57,039 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: Well, Christa, thank you so much. Looking forward to our 336 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,840 next thing and the future updates, and I appreciate you 337 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:02,440 taking the time. 338 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:03,279 Speaker 2: Thanks so much. 339 00:16:03,679 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by go Mining. Go 340 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,639 Mining is the all in one bitcoin app that makes 341 00:16:09,639 --> 00:16:12,840 it simple and secure to earn, use, and benefit from 342 00:16:12,919 --> 00:16:16,159 bitcoin every day. 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