WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.080 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.160 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:21.519 written about them. Geesy Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK Every 4 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.280 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 5 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.559 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 6 00:00:29.559 --> 00:00:40.560 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening. 7 00:00:41.799 --> 00:00:46.399 Jeff Garman, a veteran in Las Vegas Review Journal investigative reporter, 8 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:51.399 was no stranger to controversy or the danger of his work. 9 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:56.799 For more than four decades, he wrote stories relentlessly confronting 10 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:02.679 the mob, corrupt politicians, and greedy bureaucrats. As a result, 11 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.359 he was often threatened enough that he and his friend 12 00:01:06.439 --> 00:01:12.000 and fellow investigative reporter Arthur Kine, sometimes joked about reporting 13 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:16.319 on these threats if they were ever acted upon. Then, 14 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:21.000 in the spring of twenty twenty two, German received a 15 00:01:21.079 --> 00:01:26.000 tip about abuses at a little known county office. His 16 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:31.359 subsequent investigation on earthed a scandalous, sexually incriminating video of 17 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:36.200 a rising politician. The resulting stories in the Review Journal 18 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:42.079 ended the man's political aspirations. Less than six months later, 19 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:47.959 on September three, Garman's lifeless body was discovered outside his 20 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:55.000 home with multiple stab wounds. His dedicated newsroom colleagues, including Kane, 21 00:01:55.640 --> 00:02:01.040 vowed to find the killer. In doing so, they expose 22 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:06.239 the true depths of corruption and malice in Sin City. Meanwhile, 23 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:10.280 the police struggled to identify a suspect until they released 24 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:14.719 a photo of the suspects vehicle to the media. That 25 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:18.479 tip led them to none other than the small time politician, 26 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:23.319 who was subsequently arrested and now faces life in prison 27 00:02:24.039 --> 00:02:28.240 pending the outcome of his trial in August twenty twenty four. 28 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:35.919 In the Last Story, Caine delivers an intense narrative of courage, betrayal, 29 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:41.080 and the unrelenting quest for justice. The book that we're 30 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:45.360 featuring this evening is The Last Story, The Murder of 31 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:49.840 an Investigative Journalist in Las Vegas, with my special guest, 32 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:56.199 investigative journalist and author Arthur Kin. Welcome the program, and 33 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:57.800 thank you very much for this interview. 34 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:01.240 Arthur Kin, Thanks for having me on the program. 35 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:04.800 Thank you so much, and congratulations on your new book, 36 00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:05.759 The Last Story. 37 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:07.520 I appreciate that. 38 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:13.159 Now, just to open, you and Jeff Garman work together 39 00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:17.520 as journalists, and you and Jeff used to talk about 40 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:22.280 a promise to each other in jest, tell us before 41 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:24.120 we start about that promise. 42 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:28.080 It was kind of the newsroom gallows humor. You know. 43 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:30.120 One time I'd had a story that was a pretty 44 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:33.639 good story that ended up getting constable here and dieted, 45 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:35.319 and he came up to my desk and said, hey, 46 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:37.280 you better watch your back. That guy is going to 47 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:40.000 come and get you. And I said, hey, you better 48 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:43.039 write about it if it happens, right. And so every 49 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:45.479 time one of us would have a hard hitting investigation 50 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:48.120 that got results, the other one would kind of do 51 00:03:48.199 --> 00:03:51.680 that as a compliment without getting too mushy and as 52 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:53.719 a kind of, you know, a kind of a joke 53 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:57.639 or gallows humor. So about a week before I met 54 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:00.400 him at the paper, we had met to talk about 55 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:02.879 a story he had just done, a story that had 56 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:06.919 resulted in someone losing their reelection, and so I kind 57 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:10.400 of we kind of went through that whole monologue or 58 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:12.039 exchange together. 59 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:15.520 Now, give us your background and when you arrived in 60 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:19.680 Las Vegas, and then also what you learned in writing 61 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:24.279 this book, but also just learning about your colleague Jeff Garman. 62 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:27.759 So I started at the RJ. At the end of 63 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:31.680 twenty sixteen and was a reporter with Jeff. He was 64 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:34.480 the first person on an investigative team, and I was 65 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:37.000 the second person. He had been an internal candidate. I 66 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:40.240 was hired from the outside. Basically worked pretty closely for 67 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:43.519 about six or seven years, did a lot of investigations together. 68 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:47.040 I think we taught each other a lot. He was 69 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:49.920 kind of old school guy and who he liked. He 70 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:52.079 work phoned and sources, and I'm kind of public records 71 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:55.000 and data guy, and so we kind of complimented each 72 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:59.360 other in our reporting. So it's pretty much we're working 73 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:01.480 with him on store and by myself, and he would 74 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:03.839 work on stories by himself too, but we collaborate in 75 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:07.480 four or five big investigations that got some pretty decent results. 76 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:11.360 You talk about the history of the Las Vegas Review Journal, 77 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:15.800 and right away there was had many owners over the years, 78 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:19.319 but there is an owner that raises quite a bit 79 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:21.480 of controversy. Can you explain that. 80 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:27.000 Yeah, So in twenty fifteen, the paper was purchased by 81 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:31.279 the wealthiest person in Nevada and one of the wealthiest 82 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:36.079 people in the world, Sheldon Attilson, who owned The Venetian 83 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:38.399 at the time. And the Palazzo, two of the biggest 84 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:41.000 casinos on the strip. He was one of the biggest 85 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:44.720 Republican donors. Him and his wife had contributed a lot 86 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:49.399 of money to Republicans. The controversy kind of began because 87 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:51.879 there was an attempt from him to kind of hide 88 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:55.000 his ownership of the paper, and the reporters that the 89 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:59.240 paper ended up uncovering it and reporting who bought the paper. 90 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:02.800 It wasn't the best start for them, But since then 91 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:07.040 they've been pretty good about investing money into the paper 92 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:11.079 and it's become a pretty I think their resources have 93 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:14.519 definitely improved the product and the paper and definitely allow 94 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:17.360 us to have a big investigative team, which some papers 95 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:18.000 are getting rid of. 96 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:22.959 You talk about Jeff Garman and his tenure as a 97 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:26.319 journalist in Las Vegas for almost forty years before his death. 98 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:29.800 But he didn't start at the Review Journal, the Las 99 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:33.360 Vegas Review Journal. He started at the Las Vegas Sun. 100 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:37.759 So tell us about his career just briefly, the kinds 101 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:41.439 of cases that he was very interested in and the 102 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:44.360 kinds of stories that he did end up breaking. 103 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:49.120 Yeah, he graduated from Marquette with a masters degree and 104 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:52.079 came right to Vegas. Worked at the Sun for a 105 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:55.720 couple of I think three decades. What's a columnist an 106 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.920 investigative reporter there a courts reporter, did some politics cover 107 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:03.560 and stuff like that, and you know, broke some pretty 108 00:07:03.560 --> 00:07:08.600 big stories about the mob, broke stories about corruption in government. 109 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:13.399 I had some hustles, got punched one time by a 110 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:17.360 guy who was collecting who was a court bailiff, but 111 00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:20.199 he was also collecting money for the sheriff campaign and 112 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:23.639 also for a bookie. And Jeff was writing about him 113 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:27.079 and the guy and they guess they confronted each other 114 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:31.079 at a bar and the guy ended up punching Jeff, 115 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:33.600 but Jeff kept writing about him after that. He wasn't 116 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:37.439 towed by that, and so he spent quite a bit 117 00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:39.160 of time at the Sun, and then he was laid 118 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:41.800 off even though he was a very prominent journalist. And 119 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:44.959 then he came to the RJ in twenty ten as 120 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:49.800 a courts reporter and then was promoted to investigations right 121 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:52.319 about the time that right before the time I joined 122 00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:53.199 it in twenty sixteen. 123 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:58.199 You right about the unique situation in Las Vegas, given 124 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:04.639 its CD backgroundund of mob organized crime history in Las Vegas, 125 00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:09.120 the building of Las Vegas itself, but then also the 126 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:14.439 influence of organized crime currently at the time that Jeff 127 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:18.360 was reporting for the Review Journal and the Sun about 128 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:22.720 its influence on politicians and all kinds of elected officials 129 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:25.160 in the Las Vegas area. 130 00:08:25.399 --> 00:08:27.920 Well, yeah, I think that was. You know, Jeff was 131 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:32.879 about fifteen twenty years older than me, so in the eighties, 132 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:36.480 I was in elementary school or junior high when he 133 00:08:36.519 --> 00:08:39.159 was doing all this reporting. But what really struck me 134 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:44.159 in my research was how much the mob, and if 135 00:08:44.200 --> 00:08:49.000 not the mob, people with severe major criminal backgrounds, people 136 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:52.320 who had been accused of killing people, people who've been 137 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:56.240 accused of of all kinds of crimes were basically part 138 00:08:56.279 --> 00:08:59.720 of the establishment here. You would have someone like many 139 00:09:00.039 --> 00:09:05.799 Union who had been suspected in five murders in Texas 140 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.320 and fled because the sheriff who was protecting him was 141 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:13.720 voted at office, fled to Vegas to escape prosecution, having 142 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:17.360 regular lunches with a federal judge who was here, right, 143 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:23.399 and so it was it was really the corruption was 144 00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:26.120 just kind of part. You know, they were the elite. 145 00:09:27.080 --> 00:09:29.960 The people who were were we would think of as 146 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:33.559 criminals now, were the elite and everybody kowtowed to them, 147 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:36.639 from the governor on down to the DA and all 148 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:39.120 these other people, And so it was a very interesting situation. 149 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:43.919 I can't imagine something like that in that time. I mean, 150 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:46.080 obviously you probably had stuff like that in Chicago in 151 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:50.120 the twenties and thirties, things like that, but in America, 152 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:53.200 you just it was a pretty unique situation, a very 153 00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:55.679 very eye opening for me, who didn't really I mean, 154 00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:57.320 I knew there was a mob history, but I didn't 155 00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:00.879 realize how influential and how much they were in society 156 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:04.879 in Vegas until I started reporting this book. 157 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:10.440 You talked about the binion and also that Jeff Garman 158 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:15.559 reported on mob cases like the Ted Binyon case. But 159 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:21.080 you also explained that, of course American journalists don't have 160 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:25.480 the same fear factor that you write about the journalists 161 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:29.759 in Russia and Mexico, and the threats, the imminent death 162 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:33.559 threats that those journalists face is very very rare, and 163 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.320 deaths of journalists, murders of journalists is very very rare 164 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:42.799 in America. But that also that Jeff had established himself 165 00:10:42.919 --> 00:10:48.879 as a respected journalist that could criticize mob figures and 166 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:51.679 still be considered doing justice job. 167 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:55.799 Yeah. I mean, the thing about it is that, obviously, 168 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:57.919 if you look at and I did an analysis of 169 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:02.600 the Committee to Protect Journalists Data, you look at certain countries, 170 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:06.480 there are dozens or hundreds of journalists killed every year 171 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:10.039 for what they're writing. Here, you've got a dozen or 172 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:15.200 so killed, and almost all of them were by you know, 173 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:19.799 gangsters or criminals, or five of them were killed in 174 00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:22.799 a mass shooting, which is just now part of the 175 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:26.480 fabric of society now, and it was a disgruntled reader, 176 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.600 you know, who walked into a newspaper. Fortunately, and I 177 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:33.320 hope we keep it that way or even reduce it. 178 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:37.840 But it's very rare for a journalists to fear physical retribution. 179 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:41.000 There's a lot of otherwise retribution where people are trying 180 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:44.440 to get you fired or de platformed or something like that, 181 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:48.279 but as far as hearing for your life, it's pretty rare. 182 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:52.360 And so for something, you know, for journalists to be 183 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:56.080 murdered in America is still a huge story. I mean, 184 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:00.000 we were flooded with requests from every paper and every 185 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.799 TV station after Jeff's death in the country and probably 186 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:07.960 some international stuff. So it's definitely a unique story to hear, 187 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:10.120 and we hope to keep it very unique. 188 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:14.200 Now, Jeff was dealing with some stories right up to 189 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:17.879 his death, and you and Jeff had worked on a 190 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:21.679 story just recently before his death. So tell us what 191 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:24.360 you were working on and the last story that you 192 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:25.840 worked on with Jeff. 193 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:29.399 The last story we worked on together was it was 194 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:32.879 a couple of years before. We started, right around the 195 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:34.480 time of the pandemic, so it took a little while 196 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:39.159 longer because there's all this pandemic stuff that we were doing, 197 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:43.759 but separately, but we did a story about the former 198 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:49.240 Clark County corner who was we had found was you know, 199 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:52.480 it looked like he was using his vacation time but 200 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:54.120 then not logging and so they was able to cash 201 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:57.759 it out. He was traveling around the country giving speeches 202 00:12:57.799 --> 00:13:01.159 about the October one mass shooting, which I think everybody's 203 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:04.919 familiar with the Mandalay Bay shooting, right, and he was 204 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:07.559 taking paid speeches when he wasn't taking were supposed to 205 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:10.720 take vacation time if they were paid. But during that 206 00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:14.639 whole time, his whole office ended up being I guess 207 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:18.480 a nest of sexual harassment and inappropriate conduct. But there 208 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:22.120 wasn't anyone really, it looked like from our reporting that 209 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:25.639 there wasn't someone mining the store, and so we had 210 00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:29.559 done three or four big stories about that right around 211 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:31.919 the time we started, right around the time of COVID, 212 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:35.399 and it was probably about a year before his death 213 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:38.480 is when we did those stories. But we had met 214 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:41.240 to talk about another story we'd worked on together, as 215 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:44.799 was about a councilwoman named Michelle Fiori that he had 216 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:49.480 been covering a lot. That's that's the reason we met 217 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:52.080 right before his death, was to talk about whether we 218 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.360 wanted to work on some other stuff he had found 219 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.600 about her. That's the first time I'd seen him since 220 00:13:57.639 --> 00:13:59.440 COVID started in person, and we had some zooms and 221 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:01.679 we had lots of calls, but that was the first 222 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:04.320 time we got together in a person in person for 223 00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:05.519 a couple of years. 224 00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:11.080 Let's talk about now. Labor Day twenty twenty two and 225 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:16.360 executive editor Glenn Cook gets a call from police Sheriff 226 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.960 Joe Lombardo. Now, what's the call about. What do you 227 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:21.360 have to say? 228 00:14:21.399 --> 00:14:23.960 Still, Yeah, it was a Saturday, right before Labor Day, 229 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:28.879 long weekend. He gets a call from Lombardo, and Lombardo says, 230 00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:32.240 I'm calling about Jeff Garman. Do you know what I'm 231 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:38.279 calling about? And Glenn was helping his son with some homework. 232 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.799 Assumed it was about a story because police and the 233 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:46.240 RJ have a pretty contentious relationship, and so he assumed 234 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:48.399 it was something Jeff was working on. But it was 235 00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:50.559 strange because Jeff was really good about keeping all of 236 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:53.480 his editors updated, and so he couldn't remember a hard 237 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:56.759 hitting story about Lombardo the police department, and at the time, 238 00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:59.679 Lombardo was running for governor, which he ended up successfully 239 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.440 coming governor, and so he was kind of racking his 240 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:07.720 brain and then the sheriff flirts out Jeff's dead. And 241 00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:11.080 of course, you know, Jeff was sixty nine years old. 242 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:13.600 He'd had some health problems. So the first thing your 243 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:16.799 mind comes to is, oh, my god, he had some 244 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:21.320 sort of a medical issue and and he is, you know, 245 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:26.080 collapsed or something like that. And so the sheriff was 246 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:28.879 really kind of coy about the whole situation and didn't 247 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:32.039 really say much. They said, wow, he's at the corner. 248 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:33.679 We're trying to find out what happened. He was really 249 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:38.279 scratched up things like that, and so so that was 250 00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:41.200 the Saturday, and then and then later on there was 251 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:45.039 a press conference about a murder in Jeff's neighborhood, and 252 00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:47.279 one of the editors looked and said, oh my god, 253 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.919 that that that murder is a block away from where 254 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:53.360 Jeff's body was found in front of his house. And 255 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:57.039 so at that point we realized that it wasn't someone 256 00:15:57.080 --> 00:16:00.399 scratched up. It was basically a homicide that took a 257 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:04.840 whole different you know, obviously tone for people, and it 258 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:09.039 was a much much, much more you know story. The 259 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.919 story was much bigger. Now I've been a murder instead 260 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:15.440 of instead of a fatality based on health for some 261 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:18.440 other reason, it was it was a homicide, and so 262 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:21.840 everybody kind of jumped on that story right away and 263 00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:23.600 tried to figure out what happened. 264 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:27.159 You're right that the police have a hearing or a 265 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:31.240 briefing and not much information is released, but in subsequent 266 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:36.080 days there is a fair amount of information, especially given 267 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:40.240 about now the coroner has decided that this is a homicide. 268 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:43.039 So tell us what you and the other people at 269 00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:46.159 the newspaper learn about Jeff Garriman's murder. 270 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:49.480 Well, I mean, it was it didn't take a corner 271 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:51.440 to find out us. He was stabbed seven times in 272 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:54.320 the neck and chest, so there was no doubt that 273 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:58.840 it was a homicide, and we actually knew about it. 274 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:02.639 We call know, the leadership called sheriff back and he 275 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:06.200 confirmed after, you know, after we knew about the press 276 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.519 conference that Jeff was who they suspect a murder. So 277 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:11.960 but it was a who done it at that point, 278 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:14.960 because you know, Jeff had upset a lot of people. 279 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:18.200 It also police were acting like, well, this could be 280 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:21.279 a personal thing where he has some sort of a 281 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:23.920 personal relationship with this person, because they always jumped to 282 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:27.599 that instantly, is if someone is killed there did they have. 283 00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:31.079 Is that a girlfriend boyfriend situation or is this a 284 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:34.559 jilted husband or something? You know, it was really kind 285 00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:37.839 of a who done it? Obviously, we knew some of 286 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:40.680 the stories he was working on, and we one of 287 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:43.759 the editors gave the police a list of the stories 288 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:47.599 he had been working on. But I I personally was 289 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:50.279 hearing from my sources that this was probably something like 290 00:17:50.359 --> 00:17:53.839 either a robbery gone wrong or or some sort of 291 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:57.359 a personal thing and not really related to his work. 292 00:17:58.039 --> 00:18:00.160 And then they released a video of a guy a 293 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:04.359 big hat that looks like a landscaper or a construction worker. 294 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:08.680 There's a there's a lot of roadwork going on right 295 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:12.200 next to right north of Jeff's house, so he fits 296 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:15.000 in with all the people who are walking around there 297 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:16.599 with that in a big sun and hat. You know, 298 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:19.160 it's it's hot, it's one hundred plus degrees. They have 299 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:23.240 to protect themselves from the sun. So the first thing 300 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:25.119 we get is a video of this guy walking around 301 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:27.839 the neighborhood. They say is a suspect, but they don't 302 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:29.680 know who he is. They can't see his face. It 303 00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:31.680 was kind of who done it and people were obviously 304 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:35.200 we were obviously interested in who it was, and everybody 305 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:37.839 was interested. It was the biggest story of town. But 306 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:42.039 we didn't really really have anything but theories at that 307 00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:46.599 point that at one point they so police are pretty 308 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:48.680 tight lipped about cases where they know what's going on, 309 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:50.640 but this his cases a who done it for them? 310 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:53.480 So they every day they'd had a press conference and 311 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:56.559 they would release some more information, and then at one 312 00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:02.079 point they released a maroon older Denali type of SUV 313 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.960 truck that was driving in the neighborhood and they said 314 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:07.920 was driven by the suspect. They got They got a 315 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:11.880 tax from someone in the county who said, hey, the 316 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.200 public administrator who Jeff had written about has access to 317 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:18.000 just such a truck. And about the same time, one 318 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:20.720 of our assistant city editors had gotten a text from 319 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:23.599 a source saying, hey, look at this, there's a truck 320 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:25.680 just like that in front of the public administra this 321 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.200 guy named Robert Tais in front of the public administrator's house. 322 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:32.599 And then at that point it really got it really 323 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:38.039 got interesting and just crazy because if the public administrator 324 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:40.359 was a suspect and Jeff murdered, that was probably the 325 00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:45.079 first time in seventy years that a journalist was allegedly 326 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.000 killed by a public government elected official. That's when the 327 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:52.599 story really ramped up and we kind of just hit 328 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:53.319 the ground running. 329 00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:57.599 You immediately thought it was sounded sort of insane for 330 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:01.680 somebody to do something like that over an article that 331 00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:07.200 had already already been published. You thought, maybe for a 332 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:11.240 pending article that would be runeous, but in this case 333 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:14.480 it was the article had already been published. Now, getting 334 00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:19.720 to investigate this Robert TEIs, you go back and the 335 00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:23.319 newspaper goes back to the cases that he was working on. 336 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:27.400 They obviously was one of them was Robert Tais. But 337 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:32.000 you go back to all of the confrontation, the tapes, 338 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.559 all the footage that they have, and look at his 339 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:41.160 behavior and his reaction to Jeff Jerman's articles in the paper. 340 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.480 Yeah, I mean he so Basically what happened is Jeff 341 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:49.680 had written a couple of stories about this guy being inappropriate, 342 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:52.400 kind of a bad boss thing, you know, verbally abusive 343 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:55.839 towards people, moving people for no reason, just being a 344 00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:59.759 bully at work. And on top of that, his employees 345 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:02.759 and his office had caught him on video in the 346 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:05.559 backseat of suv with one of his subordinates, but both 347 00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:09.880 of whom were married. And so after that story ran, 348 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:12.960 there was a primary where he lost his primary and 349 00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:14.599 was going to be out of office by the end 350 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.240 of the year. After that, he had sent some texts, 351 00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:22.000 some tweets out basically making fun of Jeff. It didn't 352 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:25.960 it wasn't threatening in that I'm going to come get him. 353 00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:29.119 It was kind of going, doesn't Jeff have anything better 354 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:32.039 to do? Jeff looking through my garbage, which he obviously wasn't, 355 00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:34.720 but he was joking. And when he finds the sushi 356 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:36.799 containers and the pizza container. He's going to say, I'm 357 00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:39.759 part of the Kuza and part of the mob, and 358 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:43.000 so it was just him kind of blowing off steam, 359 00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:46.519 which happens a lot in stories that you know are true. 360 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:50.160 And we find somebody who who has public foibles and 361 00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:53.480 they don't like that was exposed. But nothing there would 362 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:55.680 have indicated any kind of a threat or else we 363 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:58.960 would have taken precautions, and so it was definitely surprising 364 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:03.640 for everyone to think that was a suspect. And you know, 365 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:05.920 a few days later he ends up getting arrested for 366 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:07.680 the murder. 367 00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:12.799 You wrote about the photos that they have and that 368 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:16.000 the police release, and you said, a big floppy hat 369 00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:18.559 to protect against one hundred and ten degrees that these 370 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.519 guys were working in. But he didn't have construction boots, 371 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.880 and he had designer jeans, and he had runners, they 372 00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:28.839 had sneakers. So when they did get a search warrant 373 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:31.039 for his house, what did they find. 374 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:35.720 Well, they found the hat had been cut up, but 375 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.359 in stashed in the garage, they found one of the 376 00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:43.039 sneakers cut up and one of them, I assume probably 377 00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:46.279 being ready to cut up. They found a bag that 378 00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:49.519 looked a lot like what the suspect was wearing they found, 379 00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:52.920 so basically what it looked like is that he had 380 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:56.200 They never found a knife that was used in the homicide, 381 00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:00.799 but they basically for some reason. If he is convicted 382 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:02.960 of this, and he hasn't gone to trial, so we 383 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:05.160 don't know that he is a personal who did this, 384 00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:08.119 but if he's convicted for this, there's a real question 385 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:09.839 of why he got rid of the knife but kept 386 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:14.759 the shoes with blood on him and the hat that 387 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:17.720 was you know, had the same little vent holes that 388 00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:19.599 they see on the video and all this other stuff. 389 00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:22.119 So there's some real questions about why he just didn't 390 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:24.359 dispose them in the same way he disposed of the knife, 391 00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:27.559 because no one who knows where the knife is very interesting. 392 00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:30.839 We haven't mentioned that the footage that he was caught 393 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:35.000 on which didn't recognize his face, couldn't really show his face, 394 00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:38.240 but it was interesting that he left the premises he 395 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:41.240 was parked across the street. He left, but then came back, 396 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:43.799 and it looked like just a check to make sure 397 00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:47.440 that Garriman was actually dead. 398 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:51.319 Oh yeah, that whoever, Yeah, if it was him or 399 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:54.640 whoever did it, there's definitely surveillance video from the neighbor 400 00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:58.480 across the street of him leaving and then a few 401 00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:01.880