Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sikos. I am Danfa Valley joined
by my certified tabulous co host mister f Hughes. Thought
he was gonna be away for two podcasts, he ended
up being away for four of them. So if you've
got the same amount of i'll say what we'll call
it PTO when you got to say about a PTO,
but you should be more well rested because it was
actually more content you were missing than you think. That's
not how that works. But before we're here, well, let
me talk about what we're doing. We decided to go
through and regrade or just re talk about because we
I graded and we talked about last year's trade deadline.
But the lead up with og and Harden and Siakam,
we're gonna just talk about those trades and regrade them
because what else is there to do if not regrade things.
But first and foremost, grant, how the heck are you?
I'm doing well.
Speaker 2: I'm happy to to rehash some trades like these are
the ones we need to talk about because like last
year's deadline wasn't all that impactful. So the ones that
kind of slipped out of the time chunk, that would
be like a deadline deal quote unquote were actually the
big deals. So I'm glad we're doing this. It felt
incomplete too to to if we had we skipped them
so excited about that. How are you doing I'm doing
well this. How much did you miss me? I guess
is really the question I want to ask, if I'm
being honest.
Speaker 1: We uh more. It sucks so I missed you those
but always love I love podcasting with the people that
I podcast with hate, so always missed. At some point,
you should just come on one of the more podcasts.
But it feels like are the schedules always aligned? Where
like when he wants to do crossovers it works out
where it's like like you're kind of busy that week,
so it just pans out that way. But doing this
the trade stuff is interesting because you're right, last year's
deadline was not a banger in terms of the level
of like deals that went down, but the thirst for
trades I think it always I guess it it can
still it never ceases to amaze me because I do
live grades for bleacher Report, and this was a year
where like it that's always my most read article of
the year. And not only was it once again that
but it did so many reads that like they're bumping
stuff off my docket afterwards because it's like, well, like
the quote is just so high, and it's like, well,
the biggest deal that day was like what Boyan barda
like the Gordon Hayward trade. Though what was the biggest
deadline deal? I mean, we'll get oh, the Dallas Maverick stuff,
So like those were those were consequential trades, but those two,
specifically the PJ. Washington one specifically, it was considered kind
of like a flub by Dallas in real time, not
the impetus behind them making a finals run, which is
what it turned out to be. So maybe the lesson
is that interest is warranted because you never know when
this career non star is going to wind up on
a better team and help fuel an NBA Finals run.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that's right. You never know what
the big deals are going to be, And that's kind
of the spirit of this exercise. We're going to talk
about some deals that at the time didn't seem big
and some that did and kind of assess whether, you know,
consensus was correct about how much these were going to
matter and to whom Because there are a couple of
these where it's like, in the moment the assessment might
have been pretty favorable to one team, and a year
later it's kind of looking better for the other. So
I mean, and also go five years out from now,
who knows what these things are going to look like,
because we got a bunch of picks to convey, some
of which is extremely confusing, So we'll parse all that.
It's just kind of a year down the line.
Speaker 1: One the problem with reevaluating that far off into the future, though,
you can still do it, but like the branches off
the tree of the original, because the way these picks
are just thrown around the league at this point with
swap and less favorables makes it so hard. But you're right,
because I'm trying to think of like you go back
and look at what the Nets did at one point
a few years later, like it's always kind of fascinating
to see the offshoot of that. I do have to
ask you, though, do you think this time next year
will be regrading the dentish toor the Warriors trade following
a finals run that he spurred or no, are you out?
Are you out on that?
Speaker 2: Will he spur a Finals run for a team they
trade him to the day before the deadline. Is that?
Who is that?
Speaker 1: What you mean? They're not trying to be average?
Speaker 2: Grant, that's insane, while that insane insanity or average is
insanity for us. You know that's how That's how I
view it. You know, I don't. I'm not here to
anyone who thinks I'm here to do an average podcast
is insane. We don't do that. You know.
Speaker 1: We aim higher, and our usual reminder a C is
an okay grade. People get mad all the times when
they see c's and B minuses. Seeing above is average
or better, and so just as a reminder to everybody,
we have the benefit of hindsight here. So technically our
grades should be more accurate than my real time grades,
which I have not looked back at yet. By the way,
I want to see, like how my impressions have changed
in real time.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be colored by like what I think.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious to see which trades I feel the
worst about that I had grades for. I'm sure it's
going to be the Mavericks ones if I had to
get Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because those anyway, we'll get to it. Those
didn't seem big at the time, but it turns out
they mattered.
Speaker 1: First up, we're going in chronological order, I think, unless
I screwed it up, we have James Harden to the
Los Angeles Clippers. Again, we're going through the three biggest
deals of the season that happened well before the deadline.
I'll start us off with the details on this one.
So it ended up being a three teamer. We had
the Clippers getting James Harden, PJ. Tucker, and Philip Petresev.
The Sixers received Nick batoum Marcus Morris, kJ Martin, Robert Covington.
I don't very quickly would you have guessed in real
time that kJ Martin would be the only one of
those players still on the Sixers the following season.
Speaker 2: No, I would have just guessed all of them would
be gone, and kJ Martin is there to be gone
still by the way, the human.
Speaker 1: Trade except unless they're going to fire up.
Speaker 2: Maybe not now, but that's that deal was designed to
be traded.
Speaker 1: They also got a twenty twenty four second and ended
up being number thirty six. They used that to acquire
as part of the Buddy Healed deal. I believe they
received the twenty twenty six first round pick the least
favorable from OKC Houston or the Clippers, and that came
via the Clippers. They received a two excuse me, that
came via the Thunder. They received a twenty twenty eight
first round pick unprotected from the Clippers, and then a
twenty twenty nine swap with top three protection from the Clippers.
In addition to the Clippers is twenty twenty nine second
round pick. On top of that. We won't get too
much into trade exceptions. Those were created though, and they
also got cash considerations. And then the Thunder because they
have to be attached to any trade that has a
first round pick going out more than two years. They
got a twenty twenty seven first round swap from the Clippers.
Again that was in exchange for sending what they believe
is going to be a low level first round or
to Philly. This is not a trade that we I
think we reacted to it. I'm sure our impressions at
the time, like how have yours shifted? Grant, how do
you feel about this trade? Over what a year and
change later?
Speaker 2: This this will shock you, But I don't remember specifically
what my impressions were at the time, I would imagine
and I still feel the same way, at least on
one side of this is for the Sixers, as badly
as the season has gone, Like, how is this not
an A cause you get an unprotected if you just
say the Sixers got an unprotected twenty twenty eight first
from the Clippers for James Harden, a player that had
made it uncomfortable and wanted out and was never gonna
play for you, Like, how is that not just an
A if you simplify it down to those two things
hard and gone twenty twenty eight unprotected first, like forget
strip everything else away, Like that's a win. That's a
massive win, right, Like I just I don't know how
to go lower than an A.
Speaker 1: I I agree with you. I think I go with
the A. I mean they got off PJ. Tucker's deal
in the process, and so let's go through and this
set them up for the offseason that you and I
were extremely high on in real time. I'm sure those
off season regades will be fun. But I think what's
interesting is that if you were gonna give them a demerit,
you have to go through though, well what was the alternative?
And so was the alternative that they play it out
with James Harden, his money comes off the books. Maybe
they find a way to dump PJ. Tucker and then
they still have the same offseason that they just did,
only without the extra draft equity that they acquired as
part of this. So I think it has to be
an a for them. What do you give it for
the Clippers that they're the more fascinating team here with Tom?
Now have you passed?
Speaker 2: So it's this is the hardest. That's why I jumped
right to the sixer side of it. That's easy. It's
so much harder on the Clippers side because I guess
you would say, let's do the positives before before we
get to the actual grid, because I need to kind
of talk my way there. So Harden has been what
kind of what they needed this year as just like
his efficiency sucks, like he's actually not objectively good, shouldn't
be an all star, I don't think all that stuff,
but he has like filled a real need on a
team that just needed offensive creation, has defenders around him.
Like the theory of the team functions partly because of
what Harden has given them. I still think like having
him on the hook for what two more like this
year and next at whatever? It is, like it's like
Harden is lost and are paying Paul George. That's true,
not on a positive value contract, I don't think. But
that has more to do with like I.
Speaker 1: Don't think Harden at two and seventy basically is that
like that's it? That's at least neutral to me?
Speaker 2: No, who like just who on the market wants James
Harden specifically this player at that number, you know what
I mean? Like I was gonna say, it has more
to do with like how weird of a fit fit
Harden is on so many teams where it's like I
guess if you just take the production for dollars, maybe,
but but also maybe not because of the efficiencies. But
like I don't know that if you if you put
him on the market, is there like a lot of
how many teams are like, yes, sign us up for
that contract for that player. It's a it's more the
player than the contract. I guess.
Speaker 1: I guess that makes sense. I guess I'm viewing it
like waiting the context too heavily words Well, how much
like just who is the second like best creator on
the Clipper aside from James Harden now and it's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Norman Powell.
Speaker 1: We're saying creator not even score. So if it's Norman Powell,
that's just so. But you're also right, like who was
in the running for James Harden during this like this
initial trade, Uh, just the Clippers at that point. And
if you put him on the market, I'm sure, I
honestly I think with the contract, but it's a player
option too, so you're dealing with also the same problem
where he could be a free agent again as well.
He might even be more valuablef he didn't have that
player option because then at least a team doesn't need
to take into his preferred destinations into account.
Speaker 2: Well, and like just forget the trade side of it,
Like the player option by this is true everybody, but
it applies to Harden here, So we got to talk
about like if he picks up that player option, it
probably means like he has not done enough to get
more than that on the market in free agency. So
by definition, like the Clippers probably shouldn't want him to
pick up that option because he's coming back because he
can't do better anywhere else. Like there's that whole side
of it. I mean you mentioned the like where else
was he going? That's another feather in the Sixers cap
is like there was not a bidding war. It was
like he wants to go to the Clippers, and somehow
they got all this out of it. I think for me,
I'll just talk me up or down from here. But
I have the Clippers as a d plush even with
Harden being like having like legitimate utility for them this year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I probably would go I'm gonna say d I'm
gonna go a little bit lower lower. The PJ. Tucker
contract ends up being a disaster, and I think it, look,
this has to be part of it. You knew, like
the future of Paul George and Kawhi Leonard wore in
doubt when you made this move, and so to give
up this equity and then again it turns out letting
Paul George walk it at least wasn't the wrong decision,
just based off how this season has unfolded. But like,
if you knew you were gonna let Paul George walk
and enter this weird phase, why would you have given
up so much future draft equity here to go after
James Harden. And yes, it was all billowing in the wind.
But now we've seen that resolution, So yeah, you could say,
and I think this would be correct. At this point,
they're probably better off not having the Paul George contract
on the book. So though, could you have done something
more proactively to move him rather than let him walk
just for the flexibility that allows you to add a
guy like Derek Jones Jr. There's there's a lot of
levels to this, but you were the only team in
the running for him, and you had to take back
a player in Tucker who's not only a non factor
for you, but like you can't move him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's he's dead money. You just took back dead money.
Speaker 1: And it's I don't so like James Harden has been
like fine to good for them, So I don't know
if it's D too low. I just don't. I guess
I just given their direction now, like you gave up,
you essentially mortgaged like two extra years of your draft
and then actively decided to kind of take a step
back like or at least off the gas, like relative
to where you were this time. Lets I just it's
so confusing. I'm going to go with a D here.
I'm probably higher on how James Hardness has done with
the Clippers. But the logic to me is even murkier
knowing what we know now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, like, if you're trying to find an
excuse for the Clippers, because that is you, I think
you're very right to point out doing the hardened deal
and then having things go the way they did with George,
like does not square like that, it doesn't make sense.
So I think if you're being charitable to the Clippers,
you would say, well, they decided over the course of
the season or became better acquainted with all the second
Apron rules and like just what the salary and roster
building new kind of restrictions are going to be and realized,
oh god, like we can't do this, we can't go
forward with George. But like, that's a mistake too, because
that's not like you were aware of what the rules
would be or had re like you should never have
made this move if you thought it was at all
in the cards that George would leave for nothing, right, Like,
it doesn't. It doesn't they wanted him to leave for
nothing or that, yeah, or you're okay with it or
wanted it to happen. So even that charitable like explanation
from the Clipper side, it still like does not absolve
them of what was a pretty big mistake.
Speaker 1: And now knowing that they still would not have controlled
their own draft pick again until twenty twenty seven, like
had they not done this trade, Yeah, you would actively
prefer not having James Harden on this roster, even if
you were gonna let Paul George walk, because I think
you could also say, if they don't make the James
Harden trade, are they more likely to view that they
have to keep George out of necessity? But even if
they end up keeping George, I think at this point
I would very comfortably still rather just have control over
my own first, and like throw out the Kawhi Leonard
injury stuff, even though that is semi foreseeable another like.
Speaker 2: You kind of knew like that, right's part of it too.
Speaker 1: But I think let's even say that they end up
keeping George as a result of this, I'd rather have
not having to give that twenty twenty seven swap to Okay, see,
and then now you've given up the twenty twenty nine
and twenty twenty eight control, so like, because now all
of a sudden it's all right, two more drafts and
then like we have control over our own first rounders. Again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting, Like if you said, if you framed
it as Clippers, you get to have Harden and George
or neither. I think you have to just say neither
and and and keep all you know that that that
feels like the way that it makes sense in my
why how you this is a mistake.
Speaker 1: Even if it's you get to have what if I
even say it just to like kind of acknowledge that
there could be a less rosy outlook if you didn't
have hard If it was you can either have Harden
or Paul George, which you undo the Hardened trade, but
you did end up resigning Paul George.
Speaker 2: You still picked the Paul George route, correct, because you
get you're you're keeping the twenty eight first in that scenario.
Speaker 1: As well as you're they had to give the twenty
seven swap to Okay.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, even if you can see George, which
is like might be like this time next year, if
things don't change, Paul George might be the worst contract
in the league. Like that's I mean, Jamal Murray's exists,
but like still he's gonna be in that conversation, you'd
still rather have that with those two first round assets.
Speaker 1: I guess it would be hard to stomach in real
time of Okay, if they don't if they didn't have
Harden and they had George, or if they didn't have George,
there's a not insane Although maybe they're just better than
we thought. They were gonna be one of the worst
teams in the league as it was, so maybe they're
still able to carve out victories. But that optically, if
you sent the like the number five pick out this
year because you were so bad, it's not the next
two years would be tough. But like, this trade cost
you control over three draft picks. When you knew that
you're you had to have some idea that the sustainability
of your core was on. Isn't that also why we
assumed they went and got hardened because they're worried about
the fragility of the other two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's I mean, we're way apart on
our grades between the Clippers and Sixers, and and it's
still like, if this is such an interesting trade, isn't
this a more interesting trade because there's so many like
paths not taken or like the Paul George of it
all is just this weird, interesting element that I think
you just have to we have we have you have
to talk about it in the context of this trade,
because like, who knows what happens if things go a
different direction.
Speaker 1: So you went D plus for the Clippers, I went
D I might even be in a D minus at
this point for the Thunder. Is it an A because
what you're saying is twenty twenty six, they and Houston
should still be really, so you're giving up in actual
first round pick, but you have so many that it
probably doesn't matter for a flyer on the Clippers in
twenty twenty seven, which okay that post dates as of
now Harden's current contract. Yeah, we know Paul George is gone.
Who the fuck knows what Kawhi is going to be
like in the twenty six twenty seven season. So I
think is that a just an A plus? Like that's
just an A plus swing for them?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like what's that twenty six first gonna be?
It's gonna be of twenty fifth or worse? Right, Like
that's that's you right, Like how like where's that.
Speaker 1: Pick or Houston aren't one of the five best teams
in the league. Twenty twenty six, I'd beat fed so yeah.
Speaker 2: And so the upside on the twenty seven first is
insane like that that could be who knows how high that? Yeah,
that's totally worth it. And the Thunder what's the other
the Thunder did this again? I think we're in the
trade we're going to talk about. And then the Dallas one. Yeah,
the twenty eight and then isn't it. Yeah? I love
the distant swap for like, I love them using their
first as a way to like get an incrementally more valuable,
more distant first. That's such good business for them.
Speaker 1: We are on too, the Ojan Andobi trade. You want
to take us through this one?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Knicks get Ojan Andobi, prescius Chewa and
Malachi Flynn from the Toronto Raptors for r J. Barrett
Emmanuel quickly Detroit's twenty four second round pick, which ended
up being number thirty one, with which which Jonathan Mobo
like has had some real moments this year. Is down
at the Raptors nine five at the moment, but looks
like he's going to be an NBA player. So that's
not that's you know, probably more than you would have
expected from a number thirty one pick. I think in
a back well, what's the number thirty pick from the
twenty twenty four draft doing right now?
Speaker 1: Great?
Speaker 2: I have no idea. I don't know who that is.
Speaker 1: Oh no, wait, I was gonna say Isaiah Collier, but
he was he was number twenty nine, number thirty this
year was Bailli or Baylor Shireman? So yeah, I mean
the other note here would be that so part of
the reason you trade for Ojanaobi is that you can
keep ojan Andoby. He stayed with the Knicks on a
five year, two hundred and twelve point five million dollar
contract with a player option on the final season when
he will be I think it's entering his age thirty
one campaign to get Ogananobi, who is still objectively that
he's one of the most ten valuable defenders in basketball. Right.
He might not make all defense on any given season,
but he's objectively one of the ten most valuable defenders
in basketball. Fits kind of whatever offense like, doesn't You
don't want him doing too much with the ball at
times they've needed him to, and you didn't have to
give up a first round pick, and with the way
that a Manuel quickly has been injured in that deal
he got from Toronto to where Okay, it's what he
had five and he ended up getting one.
Speaker 2: Sixty two, But it's also not really one sixty two.
Speaker 1: Is really what it is? So like that's a lot
less than og Anobi, but Ognnoby's been substantially more valuable
this year, and by the way pressures at Chua. I
don't think this is by design super just important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm gonna go.
Speaker 1: With isn't a isn't A here too much? Because it's
just the alternative would have been keeping Barrett and then
paying quickly that that money. I just don't know what else,
like you could, like you could argue to do, like
is an A too maybe it should be an A minus?
Speaker 2: I don't like, I don't know, so I I'm I'm
between B plus and A minus. So let's let's talk.
Let's talk this out, because I do think to do
this without giving up many firsts on the Knick side
also enabled them to give up first in the Cat
and mckel bridges trades, like if you burn two or three,
like there's there's iterations of that now maybe Toronto wasn't
interested in that. They seem to want like young media
players players. But there's a version of this where it's
more of the standard one or two first or whatever,
put the protections on them. But then you're probably as
the Knicks not in position to get one or the
other of Bridges or cat. So I think maybe that's
already like you know, too far out, too far down
the trade tree like to to really factor it in,
But I think it's it's worth mentioning the contract is
that's that's a big number for a player that just
isn't going to be an All Star. But I do
agree with you that like Annonobe is about as good
a player as you can be, you know, and still
be like a quote unquote role player. Like he's at
just the absolute top of that list in terms of
like how important he can be, especially on a winner.
So I think I think I probably would go I'm
gonna stay, I'm gonna go a minus. The contract's huge.
It feels like out a step, but then sort of
almost everything the Knicks did to build this roster feels
like they're they're operating like with their own market. It's
like the pickout lay for bridges, like that's too much objectively,
but they're like, we're gonna build this team and pay
what it costs and go for it. So Anonobe falls
into that too. So yeah, I don't know which you're
going A minus.
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna go with an A because I'm
gonna look at this in a vacuum as because the
way I'm thinking about it, or maybe they should be
part of the grade. So you gave away even though
I don't know that they were, or I do know.
I don't think they ever optimized r J. Barrett. I
don't think he was ever good enough to say he
needs to be directionally optimized. But the way the Raptors
have used him is just it is different from how
the Knicks we're using him. And it's not like the
Raptors of today or this season or half of last
season had a lot better spacing. I mean the fact
that they brought in some bigs. But like you spend
time with Yaka Peerl, like he's not stretching the floor
for you. He is obviously a better playmaker than a
Mentell Robinson. So you you did skew too far away
from having secondary creators and then you didn't go and
answer like that call to get more. Like even Michale
Bridges is like, yeah, okay, you still Julius Randall on
the team. So maybe he thought he was gonna be healthy.
So I'm wondering if I'm looking at this deal too
far outside the vacuum of the deal. Specifically, you could
say they didn't get a bargain from him on the market,
but like his market was, he was getting a four
year max four years, one hundred and eighty nine million
or whatever it would have been for him.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: Like you, it would have been I guess a little
bit less too, because if a team signed him outside
to get him for five years at two thirteen, I
think I'm gonna stick with an A here. And part
of that is like the Quickly money coupled with what
we've seen from Quickly so far, maybe it's worth revisiting
a little bit. I think the only argument you can
make against it is should they have tried to have
been more aggressive acquiring someone who was a better creator.
I just think if you were gonna do so, you
probably needed to act sooner because the Quickly contract wasn't
as valuable when they sent it out because he was
about to get his extension.
Speaker 2: Exactly right, yeah, or B plus. I'll go A minus.
I think, yeah, I originally had B plus. I just
I think it's hard to argue with the results. And
Anonobey's great, we love Anonoby. What about the Raptor side
of this that I think that's again kind of like
the Clipper side. It's there's a little more wiggle room.
I mean, you could quickly just hasn't played enough, I guess,
so that makes this harder. But this is, you know,
even though I think he's cooled off a little bit
from from the start, Like this is a different RJ Barrett,
it's a better RJ Barrett. I like him more as
a player this year than I ever have, but particularly
because of the facilitating probably should note that it's not
actually helping Toronto's bottom line. This is still a really
bad team. So I don't feel like there's no knicks.
Fans are like seeing RJ. Barrett blossom as an assist
guy and saying like, god, I wish we still had
you know, Like no, they're just happy, like they're oh,
there's no like, uh desire for a do over on that.
I don't think at all, so, well, I'll let you
go first here because I have a grade in mind
and I feel like it's too high for Toronto. But
I'm curious what you think.
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm struggling with is it would be
easy to say, and I think fair to say not
getting an outright first pick for ogn Andobi is just
a failure. But the original failure would have been not
moving him sooner when they were probably offers with more
first round picks, because the two things that factor in
as teams knew they were gonna have to pay him,
and it was very clear that he didn't want to
go to a bunch of other Like I honestly think
Sacramento would have come in over that they wouldn't given
Kegan Murray, but they would have come in over the
top of the equivalent with picks for this to get Ognnoby.
But we know O Jannoby didn't want to go to Sacramento,
And I think so it's like, do you grade them
down because they didn't move him sooner when they maybe
they could have gotten this Like if they traded him
in the offseason to the Knicks, Let's say, could they've
gotten this exact package plus one of the first round picks. Maybe,
so it's not a perfect trade. I like what they've
done with RJ. Barrett. I was higher on Quickly's fit,
like then a lot of people I know, I know
some Raptors fans were disgruntled with his defense. I wanted
to see how he would do defensively there with more
like time and just familiarity, And now we're probably not
gonna see that this year because of how injured he
was to start it. I'm going to go with a C.
I don't think they made out like bandits, but I
don't think you look at this and have a ton
of buyers remorse because let's just say, let's say they
sent them elsewhere for the equivalent of it would have
been what isn't the equivalent of two first round picks
when you're kind of just considering everything involved, like it's
number thirty one, it's Quickly about to get a new deal,
and then it's RJ. Barrett. Were you getting a pick
that had higher upside than any than either one of RJ.
Barrett or Manual Quickly let alone both.
Speaker 2: So that's why it's this is so complicated for me,
is because like I'm trying to evaluate the raptor side
of this without considering what they could have gotten had
they traded an Anobe when they should have, you know, like,
and I think that's fair. I think we just have
to look at the deal that they did. But I'm
having a hard time separating. It's kind of similar with well,
this was Toronto's thing that we harped on forever. It's like,
you should have moved Siakam sooner still did pretty well
on the Seacam front. I guess should have moved Fred
van Vliet before you lost him, Like it could have
done better on all three of these deals, right van Vliet, Siakamji,
I think had you just gone sooner, if you separate
that out, I still like quickly, I just don't know
what to think because I haven't seen enough. Overall. I
think his deal might just be fine if he hits
the high end of like expectations Barrett. I think Barrett's
like a credible starter, and then the Mobo, I guess
turns out to be a decent get. So my initial
grade was B minus and I said, I think it's
too high, But I think I'm gonna stay there. I
think I'm gonna go be minus because you shouldn't really
have been able to get much of anything for Anonobe
because any team that took him on probably knew it
was gonna have to pay this crazy amount, and he
wasn't like a full like open market guy for the
reasons you mentioned, like he wasn't gonna go to Sacramento.
So considering those circumstances and ignoring the ones that say
they could have gotten a lot more had they done
this a year ago or two years ago, now I'm
gonna go be minus and continue to think that's probably
too high.
Speaker 1: You've talked to me in too a C plus, I
just can't without seeing more of Quickly to see does
this deal look like it's underwater or does it look
net neutral and net positive? But we should note when
he played with RJ and then the sample size was
very small, but like their top four players playing together
last year destroyed opponents when they were on the court,
we just haven't seen that like in volume this year.
In the minutes the few possessions that they have on
the docket, they statistically have not been great. So I
just without seeing more of quick because r J Barrett alone,
and if you just look at this as R. J.
Barrett and Mobo and then like a not ideal version
of Quickly as a player or a contract that's not
enough for me to go into the Bees. But I
also don't like there's still the possibility that Quickly ends
up being like this is someone who stretches the floor,
has them just live, dribble creativity to what he's doing,
and I do think he's a much better defender than
what we've seen in Sacramento to date.
Speaker 2: Do you struggle with that though? Like this is a
broad thing. We used to talk about this with what
the Nets got for Kevin Durant, where it's like, do
you credit the Raptors for doing pretty well by getting
what they could out of a situation where they had
very little leverage? But they also had very little leverage
because they like fucked it up and didn't trade the
guy when they should have. Like how do you know
what I mean? Like, I don't know how to split
those two thoughts in my head.
Speaker 1: I struggle with it too, And I mean I mentioned
at the top, I do my grade and they will
all reflect I'm trying to look at it in the moment,
I think that other stuff is an iportant backstore, because
if you're wondering why our grades aren't lower, it's because
we're not looking at it and saying like that that vaunted. Uh,
what was it four first round picks for Ogiananobi, which
by the way, we could like, didn't we find out
later like only two of them were real or something?
Speaker 2: So it was four with an asterisk for sure.
Speaker 1: But you have to you don't have to necessarily operate
in this case. In most cases, I think you need
to operate under the assumption that teams aren't actively choosing
a bad deal and so you're trying to grate it
in the moment. But with Toronto, it's fascinating because there
there is an alternative path not traveled. But in that moment,
I want you have to point me to which teams
we're giving them two first round picks that had a
higher upside than quickly embarra it And I don't think
that maybe one first round pick high and if you're
if you're trying to look at cost control, maybe you
think that's more valuable. But I think in terms of
the upside of these players, if quickly signed for a
little bit less or wasn't injured. This might be like
flat a's for both of these teams.
Speaker 2: Could be Yeah, and he's got time, like he might
be a mid tier like properly paid starting point guard
that's young enough to feel good about. Like that's a
year from now, we might be saying all those things
about him. We'll just have to see.
Speaker 1: Our next deal. Pascal Siakam to the Indiana Pacers. The
Pacers received Siakam, the Raptors received Bruce Brown, Jordan Warra,
Kyle Lewis Junior. Which I thought that trade was like
conjoined with the Pelicans, but apparently they were separate transactions.
It helped the Pelicans get out of the attack, so
if you want to fact grade that accordingly. And then
they got two twenty twenty four first round picks. One
of them ended up being number nineteen, which the Raptors
kept and drafted Jacobi Walter. The other pick ended up
being number twenty nine and Isaiah Collier. They sent that
out though before the draft. In the deal that brough
Kelly Olynik and o Chai Akbaji to Toronto, they also
have and I'll get the pick commitment right this time.
Pacers fans a twenty twenty six first round pick from Indiana.
It's top four protected in twenty six and twenty seven,
and then it turns into two seconds.
Speaker 2: Man, uh is talk me down from an A for
the Pacers, Well, just I'll spoil it now I have
a B plus, so you might need to talk me
up to like an Maybe we meet it an A
minus considering what those picks turned into. Considering the twenty
six and or twenty seven first going to Toronto, like,
you know, we assume the Pacers they're looking better. Now
that's not going to be you know, a high lottery
pick and it's got top four protection. I guess if
you're not giving Indian a which I'm not. I think
the extension for a thirty year old Siakam, which they
just had to do. Unfortunately they did the four for
one to eighty nine instead of you know, they did
the most that anyone else could do but a little better,
but didn't go full bot because they could have done
five years, right, am I remembering that correctly? So I
think I think think maybe I'm not in love with
four for one eighty nine for Siakam starting in his
age thirty season, which I think I have that that
that right, it's still a high grade. It's a B
plus for me. Give me you instead of me talking
you down, talk me up from the B plus.
Speaker 1: What so you're just you don't like his contract.
Speaker 2: I'm just that's I'm trying to reserve the a's for
like just yeah, of course, like that's that's as good
as it gets. Like I I don't love his contract.
I I think like you really did. And the Pacers
probably care less about this than most because they always
want to be competitive. You kind of locked yourself at
Haliburton Supermax siakam like you're going for it with this group?
Is Saca'm gonna be good enough in the out years
of that deal? I don't know. Do you care about that?
Since maybe you just care about the first two. Just
give me the justifications for coming up from a B plus.
I'm open to it.
Speaker 1: They got a credible all star, didn't have to give
him a five year full boat have yet unless you
think that twenty six pick has a ton of value.
They didn't give up any of the blue chip prospects
and Benetmath or Jarris Walker maybe you would have preferred
they went that route. They also got to keep Andrew
Nemhard the primary matching salary in this deal. They didn't
even have, they didn't draft, they didn't have to trade
to acquire. They just signed Bruce Brown to a deal
and then use it as the folkrum to land a
credible all star who, by the way, is a really
good fit alongside Tyre's Halliburton. Now you can talk about
should they have made have they should have made other
subsequent moves since then, they still kind of not addressed
the wing situation. But I don't know. I just you're
a team in Indiana where you could let's use Ojiannaobe
as an example. He would have been a better fit
for this team, I think. But you can't go after
him and even give up this same package if you're
not confident you're gonna keep him. That's not the type
of team the Pacers are. It's not the type of
market that Indiana is, and so you then kept him
like this is not you know, you could say who
else was gonna pay Pascal Siakam? Okay, but like there weren't.
Probably the Kings wanted to trade for Pascal Siakam. He
didn't want to go there either. So I'm just looking
at this value and the way to talk, I'll go
a minus because you're right, like you should reserve the
a's for could they have quibbled over something here, but
just like they've sent out picks that didn't like, number
nineteen is the highest, and what is Jakobe Walter gonna be?
So unless you think that twenty six first round pick
has a ton of upside, and maybe you do based
off the unevenness of Tyres Haliburton until the past whatever
month and a half or two months or just even
the injuries, that hamstring stuff constantly lingering, I'm I'm sympathetic
to that. But I look at this is and I've
always just been higher on Pascal Siakam, and I think
you almost have him, maybe not on the perfect deal,
but through his age thirty with no options. By the way,
maybe you prefer player option if you think that he
would opt out and negotiate down, but like, I don't know,
I think that that's gonna stretch through basically his entire prime.
If the out years are bad, I would think it's
the final season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's all. Those are all good arguments.
I think I probably do need to come up to
an A minus. Do you think, I mean, this is
not as good of a package for Toronto as the
Anenobe package, right because because unless you think Jacoby Walter
is going to be something which who knows but probably
you know, it hasn't blown anybody away so far this year,
he's shooting like under thirty percent from the three just
you know.
Speaker 1: He has over which is not I'm not he doesn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but we don't know. We don't know. And
unless I guess, unless you think that twenty six or
twenty seven first is going to be something like you,
this just isn't as good a return for Toronto. So
that suggests that the Pacers did very well, I think,
is where I'm getting to. So yeah, I'll go a minus.
I'll join you in the A range.
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do with the raptors on this one?
Because this is the one. It was harder for me
because I don't love the return to separate. If this
is all that was out there, why didn't you dre
bet Siakham sooner?
Speaker 2: That's yeah, it's the same. It's the same, Like it's
almost exactly the same situation, right like you just you
gotta a different package. That's like sort of harder to
evaluate because we know roughly even though Quickly hasn't played
like we understand R. J. Barrett and Quickly like, yeah, okay,
those are real players with some kind of track record,
fairly projectable, I guess, even though we spent time talking
about how who knows what quickly what what Toronto gets
here is, it's like I don't know, like like does
does what are any of these guys gonna be?
Speaker 1: In general? Though to say they got they did get
three first round picks for Pascal Siakam, like you you
can say that because that's what they got.
Speaker 2: But doesn't that feel like you're overstating it?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: It does?
Speaker 1: It does. But you also you didn't take on any
long term money. You opted into keeping Bruce Brown for
this season to see what you could do with him.
So I don't. And it's tough because what was the
market at the time. It seemed like he didn't want
to go to the Kings. The Warriors apparently didn't think
he was good enough becau because the Warriors are fucking stupid.
Uh So I like I struggle. I'm not prepared to
give them a super high grade here because I still
think like you couldn't. You didn't have the leverage to
like get Andrew Nemhard instead of one of these first
round picks. And look, you did get a loosely protected
pick at the time three drafts into the future. So
like that's kind of a like a solid I just
this deal doesn't move me, but I don't know that
I'm prepared to destroy it unless you want to grade
it through or grade it against the fact that, well
they should have moved Siakam a year sooner or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Agbaji is not an insignificant part of this,
even though he's kind of like a second related trade, right,
So I'm I'm definitely not gonna this is gonna be
in above average grade. I'm just trying to decide how
to how far to go for the Raptors because I
am just gonna divorce the same like, well, they could
have done better that I did from the Anonobe side
of it, I'm gonna try I have.
Speaker 1: For what it's worth. I'm a C plus basically like
Ochai Baji shooting over forty percent from the three read
is year, so he's been way better than he was.
Speaker 2: Good defender, Like he's a real player. I wish I knew.
I mean, part of this is like there was must
have been some thinking that Bruce Brown was gonna be
someone that they could, oh, we'll flip him and for
a first or something like there was gonna be more
value to extract than Brown just was hurt all year
and who knows what his market value is now, certainly
not a first round pick. I wouldn't think I'm gonna
go b minus okay, but it yeah, like it's one
of those trades that on paper at the time looked
better because you could just say it was three first rounders,
and then you saw what two of them became, and
it's like, all right, I don't know, not moving the needle.
Speaker 1: And look, you could talk yourself in there being we're saying,
what's the upside of the twenty twenty six first round pick.
The Indiana Pacers aren't the Oklahoma City thunder Like, there
is variance to what could happen with them, especially if
Tyre's Halliburton's gonna deal with the hamstring stuff, or they
don't make you look at this team the way they've
been playing of late, you still are never going to
trust their defense with the current personnel you and Aarony
Smith coming back, So there's probably some upside there, Like
could is it outside the realm of possibly that next
year's pick is a lottery pick.
Speaker 2: No, that's possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's that's solid. So B minus for
UC plus for me our next trade. I don't think
we're gonna be kind to at least one of these
teams involved Terry Rozier to Miami Ran.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Heat get Terry Rozier, the Charlotte Hornets
get Kyle Lowry and a twenty twenty seven first round
pick with lottery protection which becomes unprotected in twenty twenty eight. So, Dan,
why don't we start with the Hornets side of this?
Just just because? How do you feel about the Hornets
side of this deal? Oh?
Speaker 1: Run? The terror Rezier contracts looked a lot better the
way he was playing at the time of the trade,
But you got a pick that at this rate with
the Jimmy Butler stuff going on, Like, are you what
is how comfering you? The Miami Heater going to be
off team in twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2: I'm throwing my hands up. I don't know.
Speaker 1: So I thought that was a really good piece of
business for them, and you took on an expiring contract.
You saved the heat. They wanted to shave payroll. We
knew that, and you got off. Now with the benefit
of hindsight with the way that Terry Rozier has played
this year to the point where it's why is Terry
Rozier playing this year? They this is in a in
a minus? Like is what would be more perfect about it?
Speaker 2: If?
Speaker 1: Is it because it's only lottery protected in that first year? Like,
so if you want to go a minus with that,
did you have the leverage to go top ten? But
that you got a distant first round pick, which is
just like for a non star, that's not something that
traditionally happens. And so I'll go just because it is
the heat. But like, if you told me right now
that they traded Terry Roseier for the number fifteen pick
in twenty seven, I'd probably give it an A.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go, ah, it's an A for me, Like,
I don't know what the level of player is that
a team should be willing to give up. What might
be I don't know what percentage chance it is, but
might be an unprotected future first like but I know
that that level is not Terry Rosier, Like that's like
you can't as the heat, the exposure to risk is
so high. And we're just talking about the Hornets side.
So it just flip everything you should. The Horns have
no business getting a potentially unprotected first for Terry Rozier,
and they got it. And like the way things are
going in Miami, I think the odds that that picked, yeah,
like they really might get an incredibly valuable twenty eight first.
And by the way, like if you're the Hornets taking
on bad money, which Kyle Lowry was in the process
to get something like that is just like textbook exactly
what you're supposed to do if you're in the Hornets position.
So like from a from like a I don't know,
what are your principles kind of perspective, the Hornets are
getting it right.
Speaker 1: This predates the PJ. Washington trade we're going to talk about,
and so it was at the time the harbinger of
oh okay, things are actually gonna be different for this team.
They're not gonna be like the Bulls.
Speaker 2: Basically, And I don't remember, but I would imagine at
the time, like I didn't hate this at all because well,
the heat are going to be good forever, so and
Terry Roseier will be better with the heat, because that's
also a thing that happens, and just the heat aren't
gonna be good forever doesn't feel like and Terry Rozier
has been terrible. So just just a huge win for
Charlotte Flat a for me with the.
Speaker 1: Heat, I do remember being not so down on it
in the moment, but the Terry Rozier contracts always made
me nervous because his they call it partially guaranteed for
next year, but he's guaranteed twenty four point six million
of twenty six point nine million, so ninety plus percent.
It's so he's on this huge number, which was always
uneasy in how is this not an F minus at
this rate? Right now? What is the because even in
real time, you are you gonna tell me that back
then when you the theory behind that tray was made
more sense if you Okay, we have Jimmy Butler and
man Adebayo lockdown, and that's who we're moving forward with.
But by the offseason you were worried about Jimmy Butler's
of it. You can't tell me you weren't worried about
Jimmy Butler's availability at the end of twenty two. Like, so,
I like the logic looks worse now than it did
at the time giving him the Jimmy Butler stuff that happened.
But like, as we know from the Ramona Shelbourne piece
over at ESPN, well, all the shits that happened, that's
been happening. Stuff's been deteriorating for quite some time behind
the scenes. And so to make this trade, and by
the way, I know you can say part of it was, well,
you got off Lowry's contract and you saved all that money.
He was an expiring deal, like to pay that type
of a price tag. And you can say, well, if
you knew they were going to be a playoff team
in twenty twenty seven, like that will be this will
be the time to revisit that trade. Is that their
playoff team in twenty twenty seven, Maybe you're able to
for me, maybe I'm able to grade this more kindly.
But as of right now, like and one like, they're
not like I just it's not even so the OKAC
pick as that goes this year's lottery protected that has
the potential to be a disaster if it doesn't convey
because it's unprotected. But this hornet's pick is even independent
of that, like, because even if you make the playoffs
this year and convey that thunder pick, there's still no
guarantee at this rate that you're a playoff team in
twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2: I think if you it's got to just be an
f for the Heat. I think the only justification is
this is the type of trade that they've made in
the past and basically like gotten away with it because
wasn't there wasn't there like a Goren drag Its trade
years ago that involved them giving up at least one
first and it was just like, h that pick's going
to be in the twenties because we're the Heat who
cares like and they really have, you know, not been
badly burned by doing things like this in the past.
And this is just a reminder that, like, you know,
nothing lasts forever. At some point you can't just continue
to flex and assume that these firsts you're putting out
there on the table will not get actually gobbled up
in like really damaging ways.
Speaker 1: The other thing too it did is it further encumbered
them with regard to chasing fish bigger than Terry Rozier. Yeah,
right now, the earliest first round pick you could trade
is a conditional twenty twenty nine first round pick. Now
they should by no means be doing that because we
know that they're not good enough. But that's another thing
to factor in here. So I went F minus. What
are you gonna go with? I'll just go flat F Wow,
you're like ever the optimist.
Speaker 2: I want to say, a big difference.
Speaker 1: We are on too?
Speaker 2: Is this?
Speaker 1: This is me?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Boyon Bogdanovich to the New York Knicks, or maybe they
should be known as the Quentin Grimes trade at this point,
but the Knicks received Boon b Magdanovich and Alec Burks.
The Pistons received Quentin Grimes, who proceeded to basically not
play for them, and at least not play well. Evan Fournier,
Malachi Flynn, Ryan Archie Diyakano new York second rounders in
twenty twenty eight and twenty twenty nine, as well as
cash considerations. Grant, how are you feeling about this trade?
And even before that, would you like to know what
I gave? Now we're rendering the realm of I graded
this trade. Would you like to what my initial grades were?
Speaker 2: Can I guess what you what you gave it? So
you graded this like day of right, Yes I would.
I'm gonna guess you gave the Knicks. Trying to get
inside your brain a year ago about Bogdanovitch. See, I
can't remember what we what was thought about, I say
weak as we probably think the similar things. I bet
you gave the Knicks a B and you gave the
Pistons a B plus, because I think we liked Grimes
at the time.
Speaker 1: So I gave the Pistons a B plus. I gave
the Knicks an A minus. Oh, I thought Madonovitch was
exactly what they needed. Is kind of a stop gap.
And I'll say this right now, my grade is substantially
lower now. I think for the Pistons it ends up
being the same grade. I just don't know, Like, what
else were you gonna get for those players. The fact
that you then, I think, undervalued Quentin Grimes because his
like the the Quentin Grimes era. So to speaking, Detroit
wasn't off to a banger start, But those are those
could be two nice seconds when you like the Knicks
are towing a very fine line moving forward, so I
think I'll stick with a B plus for them. I
probably would give them a higher grade of Quenton Grimes
was still on the roster and playing like he has
in Dallas for much of this year. The Knicks, they
did use Moian Badnovitch as the primary matching salary in
the mcal Bridges trade. However, they could have just picked
up Evan Fourty his team options and done the same thing.
And so this trade to me ends up being a
D plus for them. They gave up valuable draft equity,
and they gave up Quenton Grimes, and they did it
for a player who then they proceeded to underutil He
wasn't perfect, and then at times they gave him a shot,
it wasn't perfect. They didn't give him a big enough
shot during the regular season to figure this thing out,
especially in the backdrop of Julius Randall spending so much
time injured. That was a miss on their part. And again,
I don't think now if you had kept all these assets,
who's to say they just wouldn't have given Quenton Grimes
emmy seconds to Brooklyn in the mchal Bridges trade as well.
I don't know, but like you can't say Brooklyn didn't
acquire boy and a Bogdanovitch thinking he was an actual player.
So to me, there's not a functional difference between having
sent him out in that trade and having Evan Fourgay's
team option.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think at the time the Knicks were justified.
I think this made sense if you thought Bogdanovich was
gonna be the type of help that they needed. I
think I would just oversimplify it and say, like the
Knicks have to get below a sea because they would
not do this again, like if they got if they
had the opportunity, and the Pistons have to get above
that because they absolutely would do this again like that.
So I don't know that. Just to keep it real simple,
I think I'm gonna be a little like I get
it from the Knick's perspective, it didn't really ultimately hurt
them that much. I get losing Grimes in the second sucks,
but I don't know the Grimes would have. I don't
know what grimes this future was with the team.
Speaker 1: That which is fair. But like when you're talking about
how depleted they are in their assets, soores they have
two swaps and a fake first, Yeah, that they can
trade like this stuff. We might over romanticize second round picks,
but this shit matters when you're try kind of figure
out stuff on the margins. And I think I'd be more,
I'd be be I'd be kinder to this regrade if
I didn't think that what was the I'm even looking
at it. What was the point of giving this up
relative to how much you leaned on Boyan Bodanovitch after
you had him?
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, Yeah, I think I think that's fair. Maybe
the other thing to consider though, is, like, you know,
we've we've done some trades with big names that have
you know, signed big contracts and and had like real
consequential impacts. Like really nobody involved on either side of
this trade has like done much. I guess Grimes is
you know, the top of that list, So like I don't.
So here's here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna give
the Nicks a C minus, which is about as nice
as I can be on the negative side, And I'm
gonna give the Pistons I don't know know, how do
we tie in the heart like hardaway has been good
for them? Would I would they rather have like that
was a weird like Branch point too. I have trash
that trade.
Speaker 1: I just don't understand I had to get yeah Grimes
in it, but Hardaway has like he's helped their spacing
and look right.
Speaker 2: Even if hardway of the player, it's just like he's
mattered for them.
Speaker 1: Grimes was bad and injured in Detroit. So there's that.
I think sticking for me a B plus, I'll stick
with it. I'm not gonna go higher.
Speaker 2: I'll go I'll give the Pistons a B and the
Knicks a C minus. How about how lower it for
the Pistons than you?
Speaker 1: That confuses me. I don't know what is the how
I'm I almost feel like, shouldn't you be close? Why
aren't we closer to an F for the Knicks? Is
it just because we understood the logic in real time?
It wasn't completely blasphemous.
Speaker 2: It's it's partly that which is maybe maybe shouldn't be
part of the consideration. But also it's just like I
don't feel like your point about the seconds and the
lack of depth I think is right, But like this
isn't This isn't like we're not a good We're not
gonna feel the ripple effects of this trade, like we
may not be feeling them at all anymore. Really, So
I just it's such a small time thing that I
don't I'm not moved to go to be too harsh.
Speaker 1: I just what did boying by Donovic play when he
when he went to the Knicks last year nineteen point
two minutes per game and only twenty nine appearances, And
in the playoffs he was twelve point eight minutes per
game and four appearances. So I don't know, I'm gonna
this might be a D Do I need to be lower?
Speaker 2: I mean, like he really they got nothing out of
this basically, the Knicks.
Speaker 1: They they used boy mcdubber's part of mcal bridges trade,
but they didn't need like they unless you like they
could they had evan formation right.
Speaker 2: Right right, it could have been for Okay, I'm gonna go.
I'm gonna go instead of C minus, I'll go D plus.
That feels that feels more reflective.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna go D minus. I've talked myself into
being lower. I understand I was so high on it
in real time, So maybe I'm just crestfallen, is what
it is. Sorry, Nick, can't be mad. I gave you
an A for the ogn Andobi trade. Grant, what is next?
Speaker 2: All right? A deal I kind of forgot about. Uh.
So the Sixers get Buddy Healed. Uh this is a
three team trade, so buckle up. The Pacers get for
con Korkmas. Another person I have not thought about since
the last trade deadline Doug McDermott. A twenty four second
from Toronto via the Sixers which turned into Wannonyez, a
twenty nine second from Portland via Philly and the Spurs
get Marcus Morris and a twenty nine second from the
Clippers via the Sixers. Dan, I mean the Buddy Healed
side of this is the most consequential, I guess. So
let's start with the Sixers side of it. Do you
how do you feel about that for them?
Speaker 1: So my initial grade for the Sixers, grand can you
want to try and guess what it was?
Speaker 2: Probably an A A plus. Yeah.
Speaker 1: At the time of the trade, the Sixers were twenty
sixth in three point to ten to three and twenty
seven and made three pointers to just get Buddy Healed.
I was just like, for this, oh, this is great. Well,
he ended up turning into a pumpkin for them. He
kind of like he had some of those moments towards
the postseason. What I will say they weren't able to
then flip him to the Warriors, and they got Dallas's
twenty thirty one second as part of that trade. So
you can look at that and say, Okay, I don't Also,
you're looking at what they gave up now, and it's
all right, what did they like, what are they really
gonna miss? Maybe that Portland second rounder, but they've all
would you rather have Portland's twenty twenty nine second or Dallas's, Well,
you had to send a pick to the Spurs. I
mean this ends up being because I guess it's C
minus just because you were able to get You're you're
basically down one intriguing second round pick as a result
of this trade. And is that worth going to a
D plus?
Speaker 2: Well, this is the thing that this is where like
I'm reverse justifying it again because like if you said
sixers you're gonna be you will be down one intriguing
second to use your phrasing, which I think is right
for the chance that Buddy Healed solves your shooting problems,
they'd be like yes, well obviously they said yes, and
like no question, Like that's great logic. I have no
problem with that logic. Like Buddy Heeld should have been helpful.
And by the way, he shot thirty nine percent with
the sixers from three he wasn't playing the time he
made it. Yeah, he didn't play, and like it just
it's the Buddy Heeld experience. I understand it now firsthand.
It's this is another one that's okay, we gotta just.
Speaker 1: For I'm going to try to I can simplify this
for you.
Speaker 2: Do it.
Speaker 1: They traded number thirty six and Portland's twenty twenty nine
second round pick, and the Clippers is twenty twenty nine
second round pick for Dallas's twenty thirty one second round pick.
Speaker 2: That's ultimately what they land with it. They gave up
three seconds for one basically, and.
Speaker 1: That's actually an awful trade.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you look at what they're left with, it's
not good. I think, so how low do it? This
is another one though, where it's like how much of
an impact did it really have? Like and is that
a factor? Like can you get into that?
Speaker 1: Look a look at the deal on the vacuum. Is
it that yeah, number thirty six two twenty twenty nine
second round picks, one from Portland, one from the Clippers
for Dallas's twenty thirty one pick. Even if you think
that's the most intriguing pick, not worth all three of
those things, This is a D D minus.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm with you. Oh, let's let's just give it
a D. That's that's that's that's really bad when you
look at.
Speaker 1: It that way. Well, I'm simplifying it correctly though, right,
I think no other because you're not gonna get like,
you know, the furk on cork mas of it all. Whatever,
So what is it we killed? I killed the Pacers
for it, I believe. Let me scroll down here. I
gave the Pacers. I gave the Pacers a C minus.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, the Pacer side of it. I'm trying
to think, like, I mean, they made the conference finals,
but like they did seem to lose something when without
healed there and then definitely early this season when they
just looked so bad. It was like, oh man, they
just missed that movement shooter that bent defenses like it's greener. Yeah, yeah,
so that is it does feel obviously, like you know,
I don't know how much we can really say they
missed Buddy Heeled now with a little more distance from it,
but it doesn't doesn't feel like a I don't know.
I guess if you really like that twenty nine second
from Portland that maybe that that makes you feel positively.
But well, I think they could still use Buddy Heeled.
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with you, but I'm not sure how
to reconcile it with this. When you look at so
the Pacers as of right now are and I'm rounding
up one hundred and fifty thousand dollars away from the
luxury tax, how were they functionally? They're not going to
pay the tax? No, so what even with Buddy Heeld's
salary right now, they would have been five million dollars
into this. Now you could say, could they maybe have
paid Obi Topping a little bit less and gamed it
that way? I don't know, but I think if we're
looking at it and saying they weren't going to keep him,
and given how unimpactful he was for the Sixers and
how he's kind of petered out for the Warriors, I'll
probably stick with us. I'll upgrade them to a sea
I would have preferred they kept him and let Obi
top and walk if we're being honest. But so maybe
I should stick with the C minus. I just don't
know how realistic that is. But given what Buddy Heel
has done since like getting two seconds for him.
Speaker 2: Leaving, I think, especially if you view it as they
weren't going to keep him, that changes it for me.
If it's just like, well, this is a we'll take
back something.
Speaker 1: And they tried to keep him, he wouldn't sign. He
probably by the way, he.
Speaker 2: Forgot about that. What was it like four for eighty something.
Wasn't that like I think that was like being kicked around? Yeah,
that he turned down or whatever for at.
Speaker 1: Least double what he's making now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I guess I'm just gonna go. I see
minus is tempting, but uh, I think maybe if you
view it through the prism of like the he'll just
wasn't going to be on this team, so getting anything
is good. I'll just go I'll go see because I mean,
how much did it really matter?
Speaker 1: You know what, I'm going to be more of a
Doom's dayer than you and says stick with my C
minus because if you're asking me whether I would have
rather seen him play out the rest of the year
in Indy versus having these two second round picks. I
would have rather seen him play the rest of the
year out in Indy.
Speaker 2: Maybe he wins them a playoff game or something right like,
and at the level they reached, that could be consequential.
Speaker 1: So no, no big change of there. So the Spurs
side of this, would you care to cass what I gave?
Look what I gave them in real time?
Speaker 2: So let's see are they giving them? They gave up
McDermott right because he was on the Spurs. I think.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: You probably liked getting a twenty nine second, but I
don't know how much you liked it. I'll say you
gave the Spurs. I'll say you gave him a B plus.
Speaker 1: I gave him an A plus. Wow, I will stick
with an A plus. And do you want to know why? Yeah? Persistence.
They couldn't get Marcus Morris once upon a time in
free agencies, they went out and traded for him. I
respect the hell out of that.
Speaker 2: Oh I forgot about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was in all serious though, like some really
rock solid asset management from San Antonio. When you're looking
at some of these deals what they just did this
past offseason. So, but I do think what is not
to like about this trade?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just they're just getting stuff for nothing, for
like being involved basically. I mean, I'll give them, I'll
go ahead, I'll go a minus. I don't know, Like,
it's just why, all right, Why isn't it the perfect trade?
Speaker 1: You think they could have gotten more for Dougie just.
Speaker 2: Because it doesn't matter that much. I don't know. I
want to save my a's and a plus's for like something.
Speaker 1: Other than that when that first round pick is included
in a trade for second rounder Devin Booker this summer. Okay,
we're coup, we're circling back here, all.
Speaker 2: Right, fair, we'll re regrade if that happens.
Speaker 1: Oh boy, Gordon Hayward to the Oklahoma City Thunder. The
Thunder received Gordon Hayward. The Hornets received Trey Man and
Damas Burton's grant.
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 1: I great? We both were high on this trade, Yep,
we were. What do you think I gave the Thunder
as a grade?
Speaker 2: I think you gave him an A because what if
Gordon Hayward gives you fourty to fifteen good minutes on
a team that's already so good. Isn't that worth it?
Speaker 1: That was basically the logic. I gave them an A minus.
I don't they didn't the opportunity cost here. Trey Man
was balling to start the season, and now he's injured.
I don't. He still wouldn't have been getting minutes if
he was still on this team. When you have Aaron
Wiggins and Isaiah Joe and Cason Wallace and Alice Caruso,
he still wouldn't be getting minutes. So they there's real
there's no real fallout from here, But you can't give
them I appreciate them trying to make a swing, but
I think, why couldn't you have gone and rented a
big then at that point in stead. I mean, this
is a because I appreciate the swing, I'm gonna give
them a D minus. But you could also say they
didn't compromise their cat flexibility that allowed them to go
out and do the Isaiah Hartenstein move predominantly. But I'm
a little bit and I'm not. I don't subscribe to
the idea. People were mad that they didn't trade for
Daniel Gafford. I was like, oh you be the Daniel
Gafford who didn't really play in the series against them.
They did lose it. But so I'm gonna go D
minus here because like that was just a flub and
they were they were good enough to think even more aggressively.
Then let's just get this guy who like he's never
really healthy. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the opportunity cost is pretty legit.
Speaker 1: We'd get off of five million impartial guaranteed money of
dobas Breton's too, so croos to them for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was just an abject miss, like, hey,
we're just wasn't remotely helpful. I mean, man, you could
make the case that man would have been more helpful,
even though buried on the bench as he was. So
let's I'll go D minus is fine for the thunder
What about the Hornets though, Like, man is a I
don't know, a third guard maybe on a good team
if he's healthy.
Speaker 1: Like that's I mean, that's that made his own shot.
I yeah, he's not hell right now, but yeah, I
I mean they had to take on the Briton's like
partial guarantee, So that's kind of bizarre. B minus.
Speaker 2: I was thinking be just because man like there's three
players in the deal, and Man is the only one
that's got an NBA future, and he's like actually has
a decent one, so like.
Speaker 1: Retired, he's playing now like that.
Speaker 2: We're not We're less than a year removed from the thunder.
Speaker 1: Could we even go higher that I'll go with a
B with you, I guess. But they got a flyer
on a real player, I guess.
Speaker 2: So yeah. Well, and they sort of paid for it
because of the Breton's guaranteed portion. But that's worth it,
right to just get a guy that might be in
your rotation for they did.
Speaker 1: They saved however, they take on that partial guarantee, but
they saved more money immediately as the result of this trade.
Speaker 2: Right, so they're probably cash positive overall in addition to
getting the only player that's going to matter beyond this season.
Speaker 1: So thought that they could have done something more with
trade Man's roster spot this year? Is this an A minus?
Speaker 2: I was gonna go to B plus, I was, I'll
go B plus.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, that's fair. If we were. We assigned way
too much meaning to the Gordon Hayward trade when it happened.
I don't even I don't even blame the thunder for
our grade. My grade, I'll say declining so much. I
was just I thought it was like, oh, yeah, they
don't need to rush, which I was right, but it
just in a vacuum that like they didn't hurt themselves,
to be clear, but it just it didn't even pan out.
Sort of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were kind of thunder pilled. It's like, oh,
I if they did it, it must have been a
good decision at the time.
Speaker 1: To be fair, I'm still thunder pilled.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, forever. Okay, So now we got something that
actually had some real ripple effects.
Speaker 1: PJ.
Speaker 2: Washington to the Dallas Mavericks. Dallas gets PJ. Washington in
a twenty twenty four second, which became number fifty eight.
Knick's legend Ariol hook Porty at twenty twenty eight second.
That's the least favorable that's already been retraded. That's fun.
The Hornets in the bargain get Grant Williams Seth Curry
a twenty twenty seven first round pick with the top
two protection, and then it becomes Miami's twenty eight second
if it does not convey is that right correct? Okay? Dan,
how you feel about Let's just do the Mavericks side first.
Speaker 1: What do you think I gave him at like first
time round?
Speaker 2: I know you gave him a bad grade. I'll say
you gave him a D plus.
Speaker 1: That is exactly what I gave them my logic at
the time, I wrote, Washington is an upper echelont fit
in Dallas. He has some downhill in interior craftiness to
his game, and he will knock down a higher percentage
of his threes while fielding passes from Luca and Kyrie.
Speaker 2: But oh, you already should have stopped. So far, so good.
Speaker 1: Dating back to the sign and trade transaction that landed
them Grant Williams this past offseason, the Mavericks have now
turned a twenty twenty seven first rounder and an unprotected
twenty thirty swap into PJ Washington. Uh, that looks that
looks totally.
Speaker 2: Cool now, I think so well when framed that way,
that is, that does feel like a lot for a
guy who's a fifth starter right, Like, yes, but.
Speaker 1: It helped elevate them to Tier one title contender status.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Now this year's all up in like with just the
health of Luga Dncic and even I know Kyrie Ring's back, Like,
how high do you go because that twenty seven first
round pick, it's so loosely protected. At the same time,
though you're going to be a good team if you
have Luca, then still I guess maybe there's some downside
for them because Kyrie's on the older end. But you
got off of the Grant Williams contract. What was clearly
a like a miss for you, even though I think
it's fine overall. I mean, the injury of course changes
that I don't know what to go to here. Can
you talk me into a different grade I thought about
I'm to be over correcting if I say an A.
It's not an A trade by any means.
Speaker 2: I mean probably not. It's close the case you would
make for giving and it's to me it's a minimum
of A B plus and I'm kind of trying to
get up into the A minus range. So let's see
if we can get there. If you said, Dallas, you're
giving up all this and all I'm gonna tell you
is that PJ. Washington will shoot forty seven percent from
three in the second round of the playoffs, you'd be like, okay,
like maybe one, we're in the second round, two, he's
maybe gonna help win US a series to get to
the conference finals. And then they go a step farther
than that, like you might just defensive burden.
Speaker 1: He shouldered. Yeah, yeah, this isn't This.
Speaker 2: Is an A minus. I think I think it's gotta
be in the A. I'll stop at the A minus.
We don't need to go full A because you are
they did give up a first h Grant Williams injury,
Like there's a possibility that if Grant Williams stays healthy.
We're just viewing those him and Washington as like pretty
comparable players this year. Maybe, so like to give up
a first also, like maybe you feel but like the
Mats did what they did and Washington was like a
real reason that they've made the finals. So like we
I think as is about right here. Really good trade
by Dallas. Yeah what about the Hornets though?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, whoops, I'm already moving on to the next trade.
Speaker 2: Uh so.
Speaker 1: Is it interesting? I don't I don't love Grant Williams
as a player, but like as a front court player
who provides some stretch and can be moved around the
defensive end. The injury colors this a little bit, but
this was another sign that this team is thinking about
the bigger picture. You got a top two protected pick
from a team where aside from Derek Lively and Luga Dancis, Like,
how confident are you in the rest of just the
roster being as good as it is right in this moment?
I think that's a and especially with how PG Washington
played for you that to day at that point, like
the deal was, the contract was always fine, three years,
forty eight million dollars. I think this is this also
an as for them unless you really think that that
Grant Williams deal is toxic.
Speaker 2: I think it's so hard to div well if we
just have to deal with the circumstances as they are.
It's like grandm Williams has a season ending injury and
that's gonna devalue him. I'm gonna I'm leaning B plus man.
But man, So here's the thinking, Like you credit the
Hornets because the guy, the PJ. Washington they traded was
not the PJ Washington they had, Like he wasn't this
guy when he was on the Hornets, he like there
were questions about his defense, right, and then suddenly he's
just a shutdown, versatile defensive player on a good seat,
Like you can't say he would have done that for them.
So for the Hornets, so it's like, I think that's
a credit to Charlotte. It's not like they don't look
worse because PJ. Washington was awesome when he changed teams.
That's just like he wasn't ever like James Harden was
never gonna do anything for the Sixers, Like the fact
that he did anything at all on the Clippers is
not a you know, can't reflect poorly on the Sixers.
Like similar logic and the twenty seven first, that's gonna
convey and might be good. Probably not, though Dallas will
still be good.
Speaker 1: I'll go the other thing to me, that's when you
look at it through the protection lens. Okay, getting it
so loosely protected is good because then there's upside if
there's downside for Dallas. But you're also like, let's be
honest and say that's gonna be number twenty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if it was twenty nine, then then maybe we're
more interested. Right.
Speaker 1: So I So if I said that to you that
it's a number twenty pick, does that change the grade
at all?
Speaker 2: Well, it's not even right, And you're saying, you're saying,
if it is like it probably will be like in
the in the twenty right, I mean no, no, for sure.
Speaker 1: But that is the trajectory that Dallas is right. It
might even be I might be giving it too much value.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right, it might be twenty seven. I'm yeah,
that's I'm still gonna B plus. For Charlotte, I think
that it was the right process. They got a first
that they're gonna get, you know, and again Grant Williams,
we'd view this very differently. I think if he hadn't
gotten hurt, which like, how do you how do you
factor that in? So I'll go to be optional B plus.
Speaker 1: But I think for me, and I wrote this in
the write up for them, is that I was and
I still am, just encouraged by Okay, like you want
to see them get better at some point, but like
they're not actively trying to be in the sub middle
right now, and this is this was another signal of
that for me. Ye. Next up is another Dallas trade.
So this is it was not technically a three team one,
but I'm just gonna list the three team permutations here.
Logistics excuse me, Mavericks received Daniel Gafford. The Thunder received
a twenty twenty eight first round swap that will be
the right to swop with Dallas. The Wizards received Rashaun
Holmes and a twenty twenty four first round pick that
is not It came via the Thunder and ended up
being number twenty six Dylan Brooks, who is now grant
on the Thunder.
Speaker 2: Well, and we should say, somewhere in all this, Washington
gets a pick that becomes Kishon George.
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I must have left that out. I' have
to fix that in post on the screen. So wasn't
that what they used with Dylan Jones?
Speaker 2: I think that's all the Oh, there's some machinations that
end up sending the twenty six pick Jones back to
OKAC with the pick that they trade. Anyway, you I
think Kishon George is part of the Wizard's return here.
I don't know how much that's going to matter in
our assessment. I think that's right. This was like we've
already bunched in two trades that sort of aren't really
the same.
Speaker 1: What they did is they traded this pick, the Dylan
Jones pick, with a twenty twenty four second that became
Melvin and Jinsa and that was number fifty one. So
they traded number twenty six and number fifty one for
Kishon George. But that was not part of this trade directly,
but that is the fallout from it.
Speaker 2: Got it, got it okay, So just something to consider
maybe as a fringe thing, but not part of the deal.
Daniel Gafford a little like PJ. Walkington light like actually
did matter and it pushed to the finals. It started
right because it wasn't lively coming off the bench a
fair amount and basically split time with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of like that they had like that co
opt at center, but like the minutes were like dead
even for so long and it.
Speaker 2: Didn't wasn't it last year where Gafford like set the
record for most consecutive makes without a miss something like
all he does is just finished dunks. Basically the thunderside
of it's easy, let's just go with the MAVs here,
I mean so essentially, Actually, the side of the trade
that I'm most uneasy about is the is the precursor
move with the thunder where they're giving up the twenty
four or the twenty eight swap for the twenty four
first I think Gafford is hugely helpful. We probably need
to be above a C for the MAVs because of that,
maybe considerably. But I'm worried about that twenty eight swap,
like that might be the thunder might really cash in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I gave the Mavericks a B minus the
first time around, and part of the logic was Derek
Lively was injured, and it was also kind of clear
at that moment, like, well, how many minutes do you
want him to play? And their backup center ranks were thin.
He helped spur the finals run, and I think that
you don't need even if he wasn't ultra important in
the most significant moments perhaps, but you also got off
of the Rashawn Holmes money as well as part of
this deal. I think I'd probably stick because I'm trying
to factor in the long term of it all, where
I don't know what Daniel Gafford means moving forward, so
like to give up okay, like you like I could
see them trading him at this deadline too, where you're
kind of looking at the financial commitments that have come
down the pipeline with Derek Lively eventually needs to be paid.
Kyrie Irving's probably gonna opt out this summer, So I
think I'm gonna stick with a B minus.
Speaker 2: I think I'll go BE. It's just I don't know
how it's so hard to overstate, like if you matter
in a run to the finals, Like, isn't that the point?
You know? So I think I'll just go a flat
B not too far off from where you are for
the for the map side. What about the let's just
go down the list the thunder and A plus right, Like,
so they're.
Speaker 1: Trading this one's interesting because they're trading number twenty six
for the right to swap with Dallas in twenty twenty eight.
That's intriguing when we're looking that far out. But this
could also just be the difference of like, oh, okase
he's drafting twenty seven and Dallas is drafting twenty five
and they're swopping picks. Would you still if that's knowing
that outcome is on the table. I think I'd probably
still go with an all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like, well, there's no downside. There's by definition,
there's no downside, especially since you end up just getting
the guy he would have picked anyway. So it's like
you just gotta free swap. Ultimately, I don't I don't
know how else to frame it so well.
Speaker 1: I mean, it did cost them stuff to get Dylan
Jones in the first place, like back in like so
they had to reacquire that pick. What did they end
up sending to New York for him? Uh, they traded
a twenty. No, they only gave up seconds to get him,
so they gave up seconds to get him back. So yeah,
I think this is an A. Then there's some there's
no downside when you have that many first. And also
even if they didn't have that many first, they're also
a team that given the complexion of their roster right now,
like there's not there's a finite number of slots available,
and so you need to start like getting written. Now,
this is weird because they ended up reacquiring this imminent
first round guy. But uh, yeah, I'll go A for them.
What about the Wizards, It's it's basically Keishawn George and
Rashawn Holmes through their lens for Daniel Gafford.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like a whole lot of nothing
because Holmes is just a basically dead money Kishawn George
has had like a handful of moments, and maybe that's
what we should be focused on. Is like just giving
up a veteran center that you weren't gonna, you know,
really use for much of anything, and you're rebuild and
getting a shot at someone who has shown like he's
been grossly inefficient. But like, I think we both kind
of like Kishon George a little bit. Oh, I love him.
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna be really good.
Speaker 2: I think he plays really hard. I just the ball's
got to go in, and outside of like two or
three games where he's made a ton, it just hasn't.
But yeah, I think I think I probably go I
can't go in to the A range. I don't think.
Although again another situation where like the Wizard's process was
right here kind of like yeah, just you should you
should just swap one center for another to get a
crack at a rookie. So I'll go B plus here
for Washington.
Speaker 1: I will go with a B And a lot of
it is just like kind of just it reinforced about
their direction and knowing that they then end up drafting
alex are and just signing getting Yonas fount Junas for
nothing on a contract that they could move and get
second round picks for Bleak. Part of it too, there
were Shron Holmes thing not ideal. So you wonder, could
you've gotten more than I mean more than a first
bottom five first round pick to take on one additional
year for Shawn Holmes. That's that's about right. Yeah, yeah,
Well they gave up a usable player I'll stick with.
I'll go be what's the next trade we got here? Grant,
we're approaching the end.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is a we kind of referenced it a
little bit. The Toronto Raptors receive Ochai Agbaji and Kelly
Olynik from the Utah Jazz four. Keller Lewis Junior Otto
Porter Junior shout out out reporter. I have not thought
about him in a while, and a twenty twenty four
first rounder, which was number twenty nine. Isaiah Collier is
the player that Utah ended up with. There.
Speaker 1: I don't know like this. I did not like this
for the UH Toronto Raptors in the moment. I didn't
understand why they were giving up a first round pick
at all. In hindsight now though, with how ak Baji
has played for much of this season, Although I gave
the Raptors a B plus the first time around. I
must have really been on the Kellyolinic train here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think what I remember most from this is
the framing of well, Utah has given up on Agbaji
and has decided that we'd rather just have a late
first instead of him, to like reset the rookie scale clock.
Like it was almost like saying, yeah, we don't think
Agbaji is as valuable as a number twenty nine pick,
which was wrong, Like Baji isn't gonna looks like the
shooting has come around this year. He's was red hot
to start the year. We talked about him as like
a most improved guy, just as really good defender, not
quite big enough to put on like real threes, but
close and can now make threes Like that's that's a
real rotation player. So Utah was like just miscalculated there.
I think, no matter what you think about Collier, so
that's gotta be so just for the Raptors, they got
the best guy in the deal. Why is it not
it's got to be like a minimum B plus for Toronto.
I think at this point I might.
Speaker 1: Stick with the people I don't know how to feel about,
Like then giving Kelly Olynik the two year, twenty six
point three million dollar extension. But I guess just the
idea of having that floor spacing big when he's healthy,
is this an a minus kits? Just give it out? Well,
Ohai Bashi's played, they gave up. You could say the
number twenty nine pick for someone who still has another
year after this one left right on his rookie scale,
and like he might just be a good quality three
and D guy where if you don't Viume as a starter,
he's certainly someone who could fill minutes off the bench.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like you're not getting you're not getting someone
like that at twenty nine. Like that's just those guys,
I mean unless you just totally look into it, and
Collier does. Collier is not that type of player, first
of all.
Speaker 1: But and there're just like you're looking at who was
let's just try and think about who, Like would they
have drafted oh so Egadaro or aj Mitchell, Like those
are the Jallen Wells would have been. That would have
been fun, But like those are the names that you
missed out on. Really, which Ronnie James, I forget about him.
Speaker 2: I want to I'm looking up what Abaji had was
shooting pre trade last year. He's up to thirty three
percent with Utah in fifty one games from deep last year,
which is I mean he used to thirty five percent
as a rookie. So yeah, I mean, I'm trying to
like absolve Utah of some of this by saying that
they couldn't have known that the jump was coming for Agbaji,
but they just gave up too early. So I I
think B plus because Toronto got a legit rotation guy.
We think for honestly, they got.
Speaker 1: Two legit rotation players for yeah, for the number twenty
nine pick is what I think what happened.
Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, well olynic Is, I don't know if Olynus
maybe that is an A minus then because they did
really get Yeah, let's go a minus, okay, and then
Utah just kind of it's I mean, if Colle in
real time a D minus C minus.
Speaker 1: It might be a D minus now, I mean, I mean,
Colie's so young, but he's and he's shown what what
have we been saying he's had. He's had some moments,
not so much during the regular season but before, like
in preseason and summer league.
Speaker 2: Uh and and you know me, I'm always a sucker
for the guy that was like a really high, highly
ranked recruit like in his class that slipped in.
Speaker 1: Call Like I just the logic here of you don't
have wings on the roster, so let's let's give up
on one of the only wings that you have to
get another like player that doesn't profile as a building
block type. I just don't if if you told me,
like Isaiah Collier was, what is he like if he
was six foot eight or something, you add the type
of on ball skills that we've seen. Okay, sure, but
he's not. He's six three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're drafting a guy that, if you were trying
to win, would be behind George Sexton and Clarkson. And
you're drafting like a fourth guard that can't really do
anything off the ball at all. And also, like Collier,
the numbers are fucking terrible, Like he cannot shoot at all.
It's it's like he's in the teens from three. So
like it's it's got Yeah, I mean, it can't be
higher than a D for Utah, maybe we just go
D minus A minus.
Speaker 1: Yeah, D minus just leaving open the door like a
Maybe Collier figures it out at some point, and like
they took a high wing, which is what you want
teams in their position to do, but when you're so
wing poor, that's not what you necessarily want them to do.
The next trade is there's a big one. Everyone buckle up,
Dennis Shrewder the Nets. So the Nets received Dennis Shrewder,
Thaddeus Young and a trade exception which they used most
of it on Billiam mcdonovich. And then the Raptors received
Spencer Dinwitty, who they promptly got rid of.
Speaker 2: H this is for?
Speaker 1: Isn't this kind of fascinating for the Nets now though?
Just looking at how good Shrewder was this year and
then what they were able to flip him for. I
gave them a bee in real time and my you know,
my first line is on it. I'm sure that's what
I feel like, That's how I feel right now.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, so how many it was? So the Nets
turn Shrewder, who might have fucked up their tank a
little bit, although they're trying now into Melton. And how
many seconds did they get? Was it three?
Speaker 1: Three? Yeah? I mean they sent out one kind of
two though, right? Or am I misremembering?
Speaker 2: I can't I can't. I couldn't remember off. I thought
it was they got three. Maybe they did send one back.
That does kind of sound right, So yeah, I don't know.
I guess it depends on like how much you think
he because he played the best he's ever played in
his career the first half of the season or first third,
I guess. But and that was like counterproductive, you would
argue to what Brooklyn was going for. Do we factor
that into the grade that he was better than they
thought he might be? Like, was actually too good this year?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if so, you want to ding them
because he might have not given them a head start
off their tank.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're just talking pure bottom line, like
he actually was counterproductive to what they were trying to
do this season. But like, can you penalize a team
for getting a guy who turned out to be way
better than you thought? That feels wrong?
Speaker 1: Well, you could also look at it. So they did
give up a twenty twenty five second in the Warrior traits,
So they turned Spencer didn when he into two second
round picks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty good, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Like so you could also say, but if Dennis Shruder
wasn't supposed to be as good as he wasn't. What
would they have gotten for him if they traded him
over the off season.
Speaker 2: Hmm, well probably not three I guess. Well, you know
you wouldn't have got two seconds, right, And.
Speaker 1: So even if you didn't think he was gonna be
as good as expect, you still made that. They clearly
didn't know he was gonna be that good, but you
made the call to move him early enough to where
you have plenty of time to make up ground. I
think this is probably a b plush just because look
at how they were a top ten half court offense
with him on the floor this year.
Speaker 2: That's insane, that's amazing. So okay, but the Dinwitty side,
I was like, I don't remember him on the Raptors.
That's because he never They bought him out and he
ended up with the Lakers, right, isn't that what happened?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And that didn't That didn't go so well either.
So I'm gonna go B plus for the Nets. By
the way, would you end up with.
Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, that's pretty good. Since Dinwitty wasn't wasn't giving
him anything.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to feel about this. For the
Raptors just because it was a housekeeping move. So I
think that's fine. But then Dennis Ruder ends up being
great in Brooklyn. He never would have had that type
of agency in Toronto though, with RJ. Barrett and Emmanuel
Quickly and Scottie Barnes there. I in real so when
he made the trade, I gave him a B plus.
So like I just I don't know they did offload?
What did they save as part of this deal?
Speaker 2: Oh? You know what?
Speaker 1: I forgot that he's still on the books, so like
Spencer did when he was not so getting rid of
that final year of his contract. Did I guess give
them flexibility for the summer that they elected to use
on picking up Bruce Brast's team options.
Speaker 2: That's right. I was just looking up like shrewder was
okay for Toronto thirty no played fifty one games, thirteen points,
six assists, thirty five percent from three just like a
incredibly standard Dennis Shruder half season.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's not. This isn't a B plus trade anymore,
even it was in real time? Am I not?
Speaker 2: I feel like the grades should be your first sentence
from the write up. It was like, yeah, sure, sure,
I just I don't know. Okay, let's let's get it
and move on. So the nets we said B plus,
but you want to move it down?
Speaker 1: No, No, I said B plus or the nets. I'm
saying we should move the raptors grade down from A
B plus.
Speaker 2: Right, okay, nets B plus, let's give the raptors like A.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I was gonna throw it off as they see because
I don't have a strong feeling either way.
Speaker 1: The idea behind the trade was flexibility and get that.
Did they use that flexibility on?
Speaker 2: You? Said Bruce Brown picking up the option? Right?
Speaker 1: Right? So what is that like?
Speaker 2: TBD? We don't know what they're gonna get for Bruce Brown,
he's still on the team.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go I'm gonna go with a D plus
here dead a shruder ended up playing, so well, maybe
a C minus. That's this trade on inspires Mate.
Speaker 2: I'll go C minus. It has to be in the
sea range because I care so little about it.
Speaker 1: Grant, that was an interesting exercise. We obviously didn't go
through everything like the Simoni Fontacio delon Detroit. We just
went through what we thought were some of the more
notable trades that how are you feeling.
Speaker 2: I feel like Dallas did a good job. Dan. I
feel like they made the finals because they pulled off
some good trades. That's my analysis.
Speaker 1: Hey, even in a trade deadline that doesn't look like
it's consequential, there are always going to be consequences.
Speaker 2: You might create a finals team with two like seemingly
inconsequential deals.
Speaker 1: So yeah, here's how you have any the als or
would you like would you take us out of here?
Speaker 2: Sure thing? Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. If you
did watch this on YouTube, please subscribe. Make sure make
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