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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sikos. I am Danfa Valley joined

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by my certified tabulous co host mister f Hughes. Thought

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he was gonna be away for two podcasts, he ended

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up being away for four of them. So if you've

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got the same amount of i'll say what we'll call

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it PTO when you got to say about a PTO,

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but you should be more well rested because it was

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actually more content you were missing than you think. That's

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not how that works. But before we're here, well, let

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me talk about what we're doing. We decided to go

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through and regrade or just re talk about because we

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I graded and we talked about last year's trade deadline.

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But the lead up with og and Harden and Siakam,

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we're gonna just talk about those trades and regrade them

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because what else is there to do if not regrade things.

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But first and foremost, grant, how the heck are you?

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I'm doing well.

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to to rehash some trades like these are

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the ones we need to talk about because like last

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year's deadline wasn't all that impactful. So the ones that

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kind of slipped out of the time chunk, that would

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be like a deadline deal quote unquote were actually the

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big deals. So I'm glad we're doing this. It felt

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incomplete too to to if we had we skipped them

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so excited about that. How are you doing I'm doing

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well this. How much did you miss me? I guess

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is really the question I want to ask, if I'm

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being honest.

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Speaker 1: We uh more. It sucks so I missed you those

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but always love I love podcasting with the people that

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I podcast with hate, so always missed. At some point,

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you should just come on one of the more podcasts.

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But it feels like are the schedules always aligned? Where

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like when he wants to do crossovers it works out

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where it's like like you're kind of busy that week,

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so it just pans out that way. But doing this

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the trade stuff is interesting because you're right, last year's

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deadline was not a banger in terms of the level

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of like deals that went down, but the thirst for

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trades I think it always I guess it it can

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still it never ceases to amaze me because I do

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live grades for bleacher Report, and this was a year

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where like it that's always my most read article of

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the year. And not only was it once again that

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but it did so many reads that like they're bumping

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stuff off my docket afterwards because it's like, well, like

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the quote is just so high, and it's like, well,

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the biggest deal that day was like what Boyan barda

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like the Gordon Hayward trade. Though what was the biggest

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deadline deal? I mean, we'll get oh, the Dallas Maverick stuff,

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So like those were those were consequential trades, but those two,

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specifically the PJ. Washington one specifically, it was considered kind

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of like a flub by Dallas in real time, not

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the impetus behind them making a finals run, which is

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what it turned out to be. So maybe the lesson

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is that interest is warranted because you never know when

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this career non star is going to wind up on

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a better team and help fuel an NBA Finals run.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that's right. You never know what

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the big deals are going to be, And that's kind

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of the spirit of this exercise. We're going to talk

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about some deals that at the time didn't seem big

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and some that did and kind of assess whether, you know,

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consensus was correct about how much these were going to

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matter and to whom Because there are a couple of

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these where it's like, in the moment the assessment might

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have been pretty favorable to one team, and a year

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later it's kind of looking better for the other. So

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I mean, and also go five years out from now,

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who knows what these things are going to look like,

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because we got a bunch of picks to convey, some

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of which is extremely confusing, So we'll parse all that.

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It's just kind of a year down the line.

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Speaker 1: One the problem with reevaluating that far off into the future, though,

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you can still do it, but like the branches off

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the tree of the original, because the way these picks

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are just thrown around the league at this point with

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swap and less favorables makes it so hard. But you're right,

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because I'm trying to think of like you go back

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and look at what the Nets did at one point

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a few years later, like it's always kind of fascinating

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to see the offshoot of that. I do have to

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ask you, though, do you think this time next year

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will be regrading the dentish toor the Warriors trade following

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a finals run that he spurred or no, are you out?

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Are you out on that?

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Speaker 2: Will he spur a Finals run for a team they

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trade him to the day before the deadline. Is that?

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Who is that?

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Speaker 1: What you mean? They're not trying to be average?

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Speaker 2: Grant, that's insane, while that insane insanity or average is

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insanity for us. You know that's how That's how I

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view it. You know, I don't. I'm not here to

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anyone who thinks I'm here to do an average podcast

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is insane. We don't do that. You know.

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Speaker 1: We aim higher, and our usual reminder a C is

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an okay grade. People get mad all the times when

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they see c's and B minuses. Seeing above is average

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or better, and so just as a reminder to everybody,

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we have the benefit of hindsight here. So technically our

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grades should be more accurate than my real time grades,

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which I have not looked back at yet. By the way,

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I want to see, like how my impressions have changed

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in real time.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be colored by like what I think.

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Speaker 1: So I'm curious to see which trades I feel the

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worst about that I had grades for. I'm sure it's

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going to be the Mavericks ones if I had to

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get Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because those anyway, we'll get to it. Those

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didn't seem big at the time, but it turns out

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they mattered.

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Speaker 1: First up, we're going in chronological order, I think, unless

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I screwed it up, we have James Harden to the

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Los Angeles Clippers. Again, we're going through the three biggest

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deals of the season that happened well before the deadline.

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I'll start us off with the details on this one.

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So it ended up being a three teamer. We had

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the Clippers getting James Harden, PJ. Tucker, and Philip Petresev.

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The Sixers received Nick batoum Marcus Morris, kJ Martin, Robert Covington.

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I don't very quickly would you have guessed in real

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time that kJ Martin would be the only one of

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those players still on the Sixers the following season.

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Speaker 2: No, I would have just guessed all of them would

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be gone, and kJ Martin is there to be gone

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still by the way, the human.

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Speaker 1: Trade except unless they're going to fire up.

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Speaker 2: Maybe not now, but that's that deal was designed to

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be traded.

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Speaker 1: They also got a twenty twenty four second and ended

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up being number thirty six. They used that to acquire

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as part of the Buddy Healed deal. I believe they

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received the twenty twenty six first round pick the least

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favorable from OKC Houston or the Clippers, and that came

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via the Clippers. They received a two excuse me, that

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came via the Thunder. They received a twenty twenty eight

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first round pick unprotected from the Clippers, and then a

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twenty twenty nine swap with top three protection from the Clippers.

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In addition to the Clippers is twenty twenty nine second

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round pick. On top of that. We won't get too

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much into trade exceptions. Those were created though, and they

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also got cash considerations. And then the Thunder because they

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have to be attached to any trade that has a

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first round pick going out more than two years. They

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got a twenty twenty seven first round swap from the Clippers.

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Again that was in exchange for sending what they believe

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is going to be a low level first round or

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to Philly. This is not a trade that we I

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think we reacted to it. I'm sure our impressions at

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the time, like how have yours shifted? Grant, how do

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you feel about this trade? Over what a year and

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change later?

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Speaker 2: This this will shock you, But I don't remember specifically

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what my impressions were at the time, I would imagine

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and I still feel the same way, at least on

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one side of this is for the Sixers, as badly

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as the season has gone, Like, how is this not

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an A cause you get an unprotected if you just

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say the Sixers got an unprotected twenty twenty eight first

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from the Clippers for James Harden, a player that had

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made it uncomfortable and wanted out and was never gonna

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play for you, Like, how is that not just an

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A if you simplify it down to those two things

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hard and gone twenty twenty eight unprotected first, like forget

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strip everything else away, Like that's a win. That's a

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massive win, right, Like I just I don't know how

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to go lower than an A.

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Speaker 1: I I agree with you. I think I go with

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the A. I mean they got off PJ. Tucker's deal

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in the process, and so let's go through and this

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set them up for the offseason that you and I

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were extremely high on in real time. I'm sure those

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off season regades will be fun. But I think what's

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interesting is that if you were gonna give them a demerit,

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you have to go through though, well what was the alternative?

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And so was the alternative that they play it out

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with James Harden, his money comes off the books. Maybe

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they find a way to dump PJ. Tucker and then

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they still have the same offseason that they just did,

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only without the extra draft equity that they acquired as

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part of this. So I think it has to be

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an a for them. What do you give it for

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the Clippers that they're the more fascinating team here with Tom?

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Now have you passed?

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Speaker 2: So it's this is the hardest. That's why I jumped

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right to the sixer side of it. That's easy. It's

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so much harder on the Clippers side because I guess

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you would say, let's do the positives before before we

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get to the actual grid, because I need to kind

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of talk my way there. So Harden has been what

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kind of what they needed this year as just like

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his efficiency sucks, like he's actually not objectively good, shouldn't

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be an all star, I don't think all that stuff,

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but he has like filled a real need on a

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team that just needed offensive creation, has defenders around him.

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Like the theory of the team functions partly because of

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what Harden has given them. I still think like having

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him on the hook for what two more like this

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year and next at whatever? It is, like it's like

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Harden is lost and are paying Paul George. That's true,

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not on a positive value contract, I don't think. But

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that has more to do with like I.

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Speaker 1: Don't think Harden at two and seventy basically is that

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like that's it? That's at least neutral to me?

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Speaker 2: No, who like just who on the market wants James

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Harden specifically this player at that number, you know what

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I mean? Like I was gonna say, it has more

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to do with like how weird of a fit fit

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Harden is on so many teams where it's like I

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guess if you just take the production for dollars, maybe,

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but but also maybe not because of the efficiencies. But

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like I don't know that if you if you put

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him on the market, is there like a lot of

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how many teams are like, yes, sign us up for

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that contract for that player. It's a it's more the

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player than the contract. I guess.

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Speaker 1: I guess that makes sense. I guess I'm viewing it

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like waiting the context too heavily words Well, how much

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like just who is the second like best creator on

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the Clipper aside from James Harden now and it's.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the Norman Powell.

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Speaker 1: We're saying creator not even score. So if it's Norman Powell,

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that's just so. But you're also right, like who was

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in the running for James Harden during this like this

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initial trade, Uh, just the Clippers at that point. And

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if you put him on the market, I'm sure, I

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honestly I think with the contract, but it's a player

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option too, so you're dealing with also the same problem

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where he could be a free agent again as well.

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He might even be more valuablef he didn't have that

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player option because then at least a team doesn't need

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to take into his preferred destinations into account.

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Speaker 2: Well, and like just forget the trade side of it,

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Like the player option by this is true everybody, but

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it applies to Harden here, So we got to talk

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about like if he picks up that player option, it

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probably means like he has not done enough to get

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more than that on the market in free agency. So

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by definition, like the Clippers probably shouldn't want him to

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pick up that option because he's coming back because he

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can't do better anywhere else. Like there's that whole side

242
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of it. I mean you mentioned the like where else

243
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:03,840
was he going? That's another feather in the Sixers cap

244
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is like there was not a bidding war. It was

245
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like he wants to go to the Clippers, and somehow

246
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they got all this out of it. I think for me,

247
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I'll just talk me up or down from here. But

248
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I have the Clippers as a d plush even with

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Harden being like having like legitimate utility for them this year.

250
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I probably would go I'm gonna say d I'm

251
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gonna go a little bit lower lower. The PJ. Tucker

252
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contract ends up being a disaster, and I think it, look,

253
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this has to be part of it. You knew, like

254
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the future of Paul George and Kawhi Leonard wore in

255
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doubt when you made this move, and so to give

256
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up this equity and then again it turns out letting

257
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Paul George walk it at least wasn't the wrong decision,

258
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just based off how this season has unfolded. But like,

259
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if you knew you were gonna let Paul George walk

260
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and enter this weird phase, why would you have given

261
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up so much future draft equity here to go after

262
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,559
James Harden. And yes, it was all billowing in the wind.

263
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But now we've seen that resolution, So yeah, you could say,

264
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and I think this would be correct. At this point,

265
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they're probably better off not having the Paul George contract

266
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on the book. So though, could you have done something

267
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more proactively to move him rather than let him walk

268
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just for the flexibility that allows you to add a

269
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guy like Derek Jones Jr. There's there's a lot of

270
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levels to this, but you were the only team in

271
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the running for him, and you had to take back

272
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a player in Tucker who's not only a non factor

273
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for you, but like you can't move him.

274
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's he's dead money. You just took back dead money.

275
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Speaker 1: And it's I don't so like James Harden has been

276
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like fine to good for them, So I don't know

277
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if it's D too low. I just don't. I guess

278
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I just given their direction now, like you gave up,

279
00:12:48,279 --> 00:12:53,399
you essentially mortgaged like two extra years of your draft

280
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and then actively decided to kind of take a step

281
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back like or at least off the gas, like relative

282
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to where you were this time. Lets I just it's

283
00:13:03,799 --> 00:13:06,120
so confusing. I'm going to go with a D here.

284
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I'm probably higher on how James Hardness has done with

285
00:13:09,519 --> 00:13:13,039
the Clippers. But the logic to me is even murkier

286
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:14,759
knowing what we know now.

287
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, like, if you're trying to find an

288
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,320
excuse for the Clippers, because that is you, I think

289
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,919
you're very right to point out doing the hardened deal

290
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and then having things go the way they did with George,

291
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,559
like does not square like that, it doesn't make sense.

292
00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,799
So I think if you're being charitable to the Clippers,

293
00:13:34,639 --> 00:13:39,120
you would say, well, they decided over the course of

294
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the season or became better acquainted with all the second

295
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,200
Apron rules and like just what the salary and roster

296
00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:49,799
building new kind of restrictions are going to be and realized,

297
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,159
oh god, like we can't do this, we can't go

298
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,919
forward with George. But like, that's a mistake too, because

299
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,600
that's not like you were aware of what the rules

300
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,360
would be or had re like you should never have

301
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,919
made this move if you thought it was at all

302
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,159
in the cards that George would leave for nothing, right, Like,

303
00:14:07,159 --> 00:14:09,360
it doesn't. It doesn't they wanted him to leave for

304
00:14:09,399 --> 00:14:11,240
nothing or that, yeah, or you're okay with it or

305
00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:14,960
wanted it to happen. So even that charitable like explanation

306
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,720
from the Clipper side, it still like does not absolve

307
00:14:17,799 --> 00:14:20,399
them of what was a pretty big mistake.

308
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,639
Speaker 1: And now knowing that they still would not have controlled

309
00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:28,000
their own draft pick again until twenty twenty seven, like

310
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,200
had they not done this trade, Yeah, you would actively

311
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,799
prefer not having James Harden on this roster, even if

312
00:14:33,799 --> 00:14:35,879
you were gonna let Paul George walk, because I think

313
00:14:35,879 --> 00:14:37,919
you could also say, if they don't make the James

314
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,879
Harden trade, are they more likely to view that they

315
00:14:39,919 --> 00:14:42,000
have to keep George out of necessity? But even if

316
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,600
they end up keeping George, I think at this point

317
00:14:44,879 --> 00:14:47,600
I would very comfortably still rather just have control over

318
00:14:47,639 --> 00:14:49,840
my own first, and like throw out the Kawhi Leonard

319
00:14:49,879 --> 00:14:53,879
injury stuff, even though that is semi foreseeable another like.

320
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,360
Speaker 2: You kind of knew like that, right's part of it too.

321
00:14:56,559 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 1: But I think let's even say that they end up

322
00:14:58,919 --> 00:15:01,720
keeping George as a result of this, I'd rather have

323
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,080
not having to give that twenty twenty seven swap to Okay, see,

324
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,279
and then now you've given up the twenty twenty nine

325
00:15:08,279 --> 00:15:11,120
and twenty twenty eight control, so like, because now all

326
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:12,879
of a sudden it's all right, two more drafts and

327
00:15:12,879 --> 00:15:15,120
then like we have control over our own first rounders. Again.

328
00:15:15,399 --> 00:15:17,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting, Like if you said, if you framed

329
00:15:17,879 --> 00:15:21,440
it as Clippers, you get to have Harden and George

330
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,440
or neither. I think you have to just say neither

331
00:15:24,639 --> 00:15:26,799
and and and keep all you know that that that

332
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,960
feels like the way that it makes sense in my

333
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,840
why how you this is a mistake.

334
00:15:31,799 --> 00:15:34,159
Speaker 1: Even if it's you get to have what if I

335
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,879
even say it just to like kind of acknowledge that

336
00:15:38,919 --> 00:15:41,440
there could be a less rosy outlook if you didn't

337
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,679
have hard If it was you can either have Harden

338
00:15:44,159 --> 00:15:46,320
or Paul George, which you undo the Hardened trade, but

339
00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:48,320
you did end up resigning Paul George.

340
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,879
Speaker 2: You still picked the Paul George route, correct, because you

341
00:15:51,919 --> 00:15:55,399
get you're you're keeping the twenty eight first in that scenario.

342
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 1: As well as you're they had to give the twenty

343
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:57,919
seven swap to Okay.

344
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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, even if you can see George, which

345
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,120
is like might be like this time next year, if

346
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,240
things don't change, Paul George might be the worst contract

347
00:16:06,279 --> 00:16:08,399
in the league. Like that's I mean, Jamal Murray's exists,

348
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,440
but like still he's gonna be in that conversation, you'd

349
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,600
still rather have that with those two first round assets.

350
00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:16,679
Speaker 1: I guess it would be hard to stomach in real

351
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,559
time of Okay, if they don't if they didn't have

352
00:16:19,639 --> 00:16:23,200
Harden and they had George, or if they didn't have George,

353
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,120
there's a not insane Although maybe they're just better than

354
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:27,440
we thought. They were gonna be one of the worst

355
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,639
teams in the league as it was, so maybe they're

356
00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:31,960
still able to carve out victories. But that optically, if

357
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,360
you sent the like the number five pick out this

358
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,120
year because you were so bad, it's not the next

359
00:16:37,159 --> 00:16:40,519
two years would be tough. But like, this trade cost

360
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,679
you control over three draft picks. When you knew that

361
00:16:43,759 --> 00:16:46,639
you're you had to have some idea that the sustainability

362
00:16:46,679 --> 00:16:48,799
of your core was on. Isn't that also why we

363
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,240
assumed they went and got hardened because they're worried about

364
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,080
the fragility of the other two.

365
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's I mean, we're way apart on

366
00:16:57,639 --> 00:17:01,000
our grades between the Clippers and Sixers, and and it's

367
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,879
still like, if this is such an interesting trade, isn't

368
00:17:03,919 --> 00:17:06,000
this a more interesting trade because there's so many like

369
00:17:06,039 --> 00:17:09,200
paths not taken or like the Paul George of it

370
00:17:09,279 --> 00:17:11,599
all is just this weird, interesting element that I think

371
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:13,599
you just have to we have we have you have

372
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,559
to talk about it in the context of this trade,

373
00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:18,799
because like, who knows what happens if things go a

374
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:19,559
different direction.

375
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,920
Speaker 1: So you went D plus for the Clippers, I went

376
00:17:23,039 --> 00:17:25,200
D I might even be in a D minus at

377
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:30,359
this point for the Thunder. Is it an A because

378
00:17:30,519 --> 00:17:34,240
what you're saying is twenty twenty six, they and Houston

379
00:17:34,279 --> 00:17:37,279
should still be really, so you're giving up in actual

380
00:17:37,319 --> 00:17:38,880
first round pick, but you have so many that it

381
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,480
probably doesn't matter for a flyer on the Clippers in

382
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,720
twenty twenty seven, which okay that post dates as of

383
00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:48,039
now Harden's current contract. Yeah, we know Paul George is gone.

384
00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,240
Who the fuck knows what Kawhi is going to be

385
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,599
like in the twenty six twenty seven season. So I

386
00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:55,720
think is that a just an A plus? Like that's

387
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,039
just an A plus swing for them?

388
00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like what's that twenty six first gonna be?

389
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,079
It's gonna be of twenty fifth or worse? Right, Like

390
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,119
that's that's you right, Like how like where's that.

391
00:18:05,079 --> 00:18:07,880
Speaker 1: Pick or Houston aren't one of the five best teams

392
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,799
in the league. Twenty twenty six, I'd beat fed so yeah.

393
00:18:10,519 --> 00:18:12,559
Speaker 2: And so the upside on the twenty seven first is

394
00:18:12,599 --> 00:18:15,440
insane like that that could be who knows how high that? Yeah,

395
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,359
that's totally worth it. And the Thunder what's the other

396
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:20,920
the Thunder did this again? I think we're in the

397
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,279
trade we're going to talk about. And then the Dallas one. Yeah,

398
00:18:24,319 --> 00:18:26,799
the twenty eight and then isn't it. Yeah? I love

399
00:18:26,839 --> 00:18:29,960
the distant swap for like, I love them using their

400
00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:33,599
first as a way to like get an incrementally more valuable,

401
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,039
more distant first. That's such good business for them.

402
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,839
Speaker 1: We are on too, the Ojan Andobi trade. You want

403
00:18:39,839 --> 00:18:40,799
to take us through this one?

404
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Knicks get Ojan Andobi, prescius Chewa and

405
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,759
Malachi Flynn from the Toronto Raptors for r J. Barrett

406
00:18:47,759 --> 00:18:52,799
Emmanuel quickly Detroit's twenty four second round pick, which ended

407
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,880
up being number thirty one, with which which Jonathan Mobo

408
00:18:56,079 --> 00:18:59,039
like has had some real moments this year. Is down

409
00:18:59,079 --> 00:19:02,960
at the Raptors nine five at the moment, but looks

410
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,400
like he's going to be an NBA player. So that's

411
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,920
not that's you know, probably more than you would have

412
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:10,680
expected from a number thirty one pick. I think in

413
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,400
a back well, what's the number thirty pick from the

414
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:13,880
twenty twenty four draft doing right now?

415
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:14,160
Speaker 1: Great?

416
00:19:14,319 --> 00:19:15,839
Speaker 2: I have no idea. I don't know who that is.

417
00:19:16,759 --> 00:19:18,599
Speaker 1: Oh no, wait, I was gonna say Isaiah Collier, but

418
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,200
he was he was number twenty nine, number thirty this

419
00:19:21,319 --> 00:19:26,319
year was Bailli or Baylor Shireman? So yeah, I mean

420
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,039
the other note here would be that so part of

421
00:19:30,039 --> 00:19:32,039
the reason you trade for Ojanaobi is that you can

422
00:19:32,079 --> 00:19:34,599
keep ojan Andoby. He stayed with the Knicks on a

423
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,720
five year, two hundred and twelve point five million dollar

424
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,759
contract with a player option on the final season when

425
00:19:39,759 --> 00:19:41,559
he will be I think it's entering his age thirty

426
00:19:41,599 --> 00:19:49,519
one campaign to get Ogananobi, who is still objectively that

427
00:19:49,599 --> 00:19:53,000
he's one of the most ten valuable defenders in basketball. Right.

428
00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:55,240
He might not make all defense on any given season,

429
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,759
but he's objectively one of the ten most valuable defenders

430
00:19:57,799 --> 00:20:01,279
in basketball. Fits kind of whatever offense like, doesn't You

431
00:20:01,279 --> 00:20:02,759
don't want him doing too much with the ball at

432
00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:04,960
times they've needed him to, and you didn't have to

433
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,680
give up a first round pick, and with the way

434
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,720
that a Manuel quickly has been injured in that deal

435
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,720
he got from Toronto to where Okay, it's what he

436
00:20:12,759 --> 00:20:15,680
had five and he ended up getting one.

437
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,559
Speaker 2: Sixty two, But it's also not really one sixty two.

438
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,839
Speaker 1: Is really what it is? So like that's a lot

439
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,559
less than og Anobi, but Ognnoby's been substantially more valuable

440
00:20:26,599 --> 00:20:29,559
this year, and by the way pressures at Chua. I

441
00:20:29,599 --> 00:20:31,720
don't think this is by design super just important.

442
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm gonna go.

443
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,599
Speaker 1: With isn't a isn't A here too much? Because it's

444
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,400
just the alternative would have been keeping Barrett and then

445
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,119
paying quickly that that money. I just don't know what else,

446
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,480
like you could, like you could argue to do, like

447
00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:50,200
is an A too maybe it should be an A minus?

448
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,519
Speaker 2: I don't like, I don't know, so I I'm I'm

449
00:20:53,599 --> 00:20:55,960
between B plus and A minus. So let's let's talk.

450
00:20:56,039 --> 00:20:58,880
Let's talk this out, because I do think to do

451
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,359
this without giving up many firsts on the Knick side

452
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,400
also enabled them to give up first in the Cat

453
00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:09,200
and mckel bridges trades, like if you burn two or three,

454
00:21:09,519 --> 00:21:12,119
like there's there's iterations of that now maybe Toronto wasn't

455
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,680
interested in that. They seem to want like young media

456
00:21:14,759 --> 00:21:18,680
players players. But there's a version of this where it's

457
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,480
more of the standard one or two first or whatever,

458
00:21:21,519 --> 00:21:23,880
put the protections on them. But then you're probably as

459
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,400
the Knicks not in position to get one or the

460
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,880
other of Bridges or cat. So I think maybe that's

461
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,000
already like you know, too far out, too far down

462
00:21:34,039 --> 00:21:36,440
the trade tree like to to really factor it in,

463
00:21:36,519 --> 00:21:39,799
But I think it's it's worth mentioning the contract is

464
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,279
that's that's a big number for a player that just

465
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,240
isn't going to be an All Star. But I do

466
00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:48,920
agree with you that like Annonobe is about as good

467
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,079
a player as you can be, you know, and still

468
00:21:52,079 --> 00:21:54,160
be like a quote unquote role player. Like he's at

469
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:55,960
just the absolute top of that list in terms of

470
00:21:56,039 --> 00:21:58,000
like how important he can be, especially on a winner.

471
00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:03,200
So I think I think I probably would go I'm

472
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,880
gonna stay, I'm gonna go a minus. The contract's huge.

473
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,880
It feels like out a step, but then sort of

474
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:12,160
almost everything the Knicks did to build this roster feels

475
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,920
like they're they're operating like with their own market. It's

476
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,559
like the pickout lay for bridges, like that's too much objectively,

477
00:22:18,599 --> 00:22:20,599
but they're like, we're gonna build this team and pay

478
00:22:20,599 --> 00:22:24,279
what it costs and go for it. So Anonobe falls

479
00:22:24,319 --> 00:22:27,480
into that too. So yeah, I don't know which you're

480
00:22:27,519 --> 00:22:28,240
going A minus.

481
00:22:28,759 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna go with an A because I'm

482
00:22:31,759 --> 00:22:34,839
gonna look at this in a vacuum as because the

483
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,440
way I'm thinking about it, or maybe they should be

484
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,519
part of the grade. So you gave away even though

485
00:22:38,519 --> 00:22:40,160
I don't know that they were, or I do know.

486
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,720
I don't think they ever optimized r J. Barrett. I

487
00:22:42,759 --> 00:22:44,319
don't think he was ever good enough to say he

488
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,599
needs to be directionally optimized. But the way the Raptors

489
00:22:47,599 --> 00:22:50,400
have used him is just it is different from how

490
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,759
the Knicks we're using him. And it's not like the

491
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,640
Raptors of today or this season or half of last

492
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,599
season had a lot better spacing. I mean the fact

493
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,319
that they brought in some bigs. But like you spend

494
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,559
time with Yaka Peerl, like he's not stretching the floor

495
00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:05,880
for you. He is obviously a better playmaker than a

496
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,279
Mentell Robinson. So you you did skew too far away

497
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,200
from having secondary creators and then you didn't go and

498
00:23:13,319 --> 00:23:16,400
answer like that call to get more. Like even Michale

499
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,839
Bridges is like, yeah, okay, you still Julius Randall on

500
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,599
the team. So maybe he thought he was gonna be healthy.

501
00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:22,559
So I'm wondering if I'm looking at this deal too

502
00:23:22,599 --> 00:23:26,480
far outside the vacuum of the deal. Specifically, you could

503
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,839
say they didn't get a bargain from him on the market,

504
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,039
but like his market was, he was getting a four

505
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,240
year max four years, one hundred and eighty nine million

506
00:23:34,279 --> 00:23:35,559
or whatever it would have been for him.

507
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:35,839
Speaker 2: So.

508
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: Like you, it would have been I guess a little

509
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,000
bit less too, because if a team signed him outside

510
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,599
to get him for five years at two thirteen, I

511
00:23:43,599 --> 00:23:46,759
think I'm gonna stick with an A here. And part

512
00:23:46,799 --> 00:23:49,480
of that is like the Quickly money coupled with what

513
00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:52,119
we've seen from Quickly so far, maybe it's worth revisiting

514
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,279
a little bit. I think the only argument you can

515
00:23:54,319 --> 00:23:56,359
make against it is should they have tried to have

516
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,799
been more aggressive acquiring someone who was a better creator.

517
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,880
I just think if you were gonna do so, you

518
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,279
probably needed to act sooner because the Quickly contract wasn't

519
00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:08,359
as valuable when they sent it out because he was

520
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,279
about to get his extension.

521
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 2: Exactly right, yeah, or B plus. I'll go A minus.

522
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,279
I think, yeah, I originally had B plus. I just

523
00:24:19,519 --> 00:24:21,559
I think it's hard to argue with the results. And

524
00:24:21,599 --> 00:24:24,640
Anonobey's great, we love Anonoby. What about the Raptor side

525
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,440
of this that I think that's again kind of like

526
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,160
the Clipper side. It's there's a little more wiggle room.

527
00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:33,839
I mean, you could quickly just hasn't played enough, I guess,

528
00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:36,799
so that makes this harder. But this is, you know,

529
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:38,920
even though I think he's cooled off a little bit

530
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,680
from from the start, Like this is a different RJ Barrett,

531
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,880
it's a better RJ Barrett. I like him more as

532
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,200
a player this year than I ever have, but particularly

533
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,119
because of the facilitating probably should note that it's not

534
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,640
actually helping Toronto's bottom line. This is still a really

535
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,039
bad team. So I don't feel like there's no knicks.

536
00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:57,759
Fans are like seeing RJ. Barrett blossom as an assist

537
00:24:57,839 --> 00:24:59,519
guy and saying like, god, I wish we still had

538
00:24:59,559 --> 00:25:01,920
you know, Like no, they're just happy, like they're oh,

539
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,640
there's no like, uh desire for a do over on that.

540
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,240
I don't think at all, so, well, I'll let you

541
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:13,920
go first here because I have a grade in mind

542
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,119
and I feel like it's too high for Toronto. But

543
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:17,200
I'm curious what you think.

544
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm struggling with is it would be

545
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,880
easy to say, and I think fair to say not

546
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,400
getting an outright first pick for ogn Andobi is just

547
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,160
a failure. But the original failure would have been not

548
00:25:32,279 --> 00:25:34,640
moving him sooner when they were probably offers with more

549
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,960
first round picks, because the two things that factor in

550
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,400
as teams knew they were gonna have to pay him,

551
00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:40,599
and it was very clear that he didn't want to

552
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,559
go to a bunch of other Like I honestly think

553
00:25:42,599 --> 00:25:45,000
Sacramento would have come in over that they wouldn't given

554
00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:46,480
Kegan Murray, but they would have come in over the

555
00:25:46,519 --> 00:25:50,400
top of the equivalent with picks for this to get Ognnoby.

556
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,480
But we know O Jannoby didn't want to go to Sacramento,

557
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,960
And I think so it's like, do you grade them

558
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,240
down because they didn't move him sooner when they maybe

559
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,440
they could have gotten this Like if they traded him

560
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,720
in the offseason to the Knicks, Let's say, could they've

561
00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:07,160
gotten this exact package plus one of the first round picks. Maybe,

562
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,480
so it's not a perfect trade. I like what they've

563
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,720
done with RJ. Barrett. I was higher on Quickly's fit,

564
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:14,640
like then a lot of people I know, I know

565
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,400
some Raptors fans were disgruntled with his defense. I wanted

566
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,799
to see how he would do defensively there with more

567
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,279
like time and just familiarity, And now we're probably not

568
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,440
gonna see that this year because of how injured he

569
00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:27,960
was to start it. I'm going to go with a C.

570
00:26:28,599 --> 00:26:30,480
I don't think they made out like bandits, but I

571
00:26:30,519 --> 00:26:32,279
don't think you look at this and have a ton

572
00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:35,519
of buyers remorse because let's just say, let's say they

573
00:26:35,599 --> 00:26:38,839
sent them elsewhere for the equivalent of it would have

574
00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:41,000
been what isn't the equivalent of two first round picks

575
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:43,200
when you're kind of just considering everything involved, like it's

576
00:26:43,279 --> 00:26:46,400
number thirty one, it's Quickly about to get a new deal,

577
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,480
and then it's RJ. Barrett. Were you getting a pick

578
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,079
that had higher upside than any than either one of RJ.

579
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,039
Barrett or Manual Quickly let alone both.

580
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,319
Speaker 2: So that's why it's this is so complicated for me,

581
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,279
is because like I'm trying to evaluate the raptor side

582
00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:05,920
of this without considering what they could have gotten had

583
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,799
they traded an Anobe when they should have, you know, like,

584
00:27:08,839 --> 00:27:11,279
and I think that's fair. I think we just have

585
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,400
to look at the deal that they did. But I'm

586
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:19,079
having a hard time separating. It's kind of similar with well,

587
00:27:19,079 --> 00:27:21,200
this was Toronto's thing that we harped on forever. It's like,

588
00:27:21,319 --> 00:27:23,640
you should have moved Siakam sooner still did pretty well

589
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,839
on the Seacam front. I guess should have moved Fred

590
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,759
van Vliet before you lost him, Like it could have

591
00:27:27,799 --> 00:27:31,519
done better on all three of these deals, right van Vliet, Siakamji,

592
00:27:31,559 --> 00:27:36,079
I think had you just gone sooner, if you separate

593
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,240
that out, I still like quickly, I just don't know

594
00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:42,440
what to think because I haven't seen enough. Overall. I

595
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,519
think his deal might just be fine if he hits

596
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:49,359
the high end of like expectations Barrett. I think Barrett's

597
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,519
like a credible starter, and then the Mobo, I guess

598
00:27:54,599 --> 00:27:57,519
turns out to be a decent get. So my initial

599
00:27:57,559 --> 00:27:59,799
grade was B minus and I said, I think it's

600
00:27:59,839 --> 00:28:02,799
too high, But I think I'm gonna stay there. I

601
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:06,000
think I'm gonna go be minus because you shouldn't really

602
00:28:06,039 --> 00:28:09,079
have been able to get much of anything for Anonobe

603
00:28:09,079 --> 00:28:11,640
because any team that took him on probably knew it

604
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,400
was gonna have to pay this crazy amount, and he

605
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,039
wasn't like a full like open market guy for the

606
00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:19,200
reasons you mentioned, like he wasn't gonna go to Sacramento.

607
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,160
So considering those circumstances and ignoring the ones that say

608
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:25,720
they could have gotten a lot more had they done

609
00:28:25,759 --> 00:28:28,000
this a year ago or two years ago, now I'm

610
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,119
gonna go be minus and continue to think that's probably

611
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:31,799
too high.

612
00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:34,079
Speaker 1: You've talked to me in too a C plus, I

613
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,119
just can't without seeing more of Quickly to see does

614
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,160
this deal look like it's underwater or does it look

615
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,759
net neutral and net positive? But we should note when

616
00:28:41,799 --> 00:28:44,599
he played with RJ and then the sample size was

617
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,759
very small, but like their top four players playing together

618
00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:49,400
last year destroyed opponents when they were on the court,

619
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,039
we just haven't seen that like in volume this year.

620
00:28:52,079 --> 00:28:54,119
In the minutes the few possessions that they have on

621
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,319
the docket, they statistically have not been great. So I

622
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,039
just without seeing more of quick because r J Barrett alone,

623
00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:03,720
and if you just look at this as R. J.

624
00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:07,519
Barrett and Mobo and then like a not ideal version

625
00:29:07,559 --> 00:29:10,440
of Quickly as a player or a contract that's not

626
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,759
enough for me to go into the Bees. But I

627
00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:14,880
also don't like there's still the possibility that Quickly ends

628
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,279
up being like this is someone who stretches the floor,

629
00:29:17,599 --> 00:29:20,200
has them just live, dribble creativity to what he's doing,

630
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,680
and I do think he's a much better defender than

631
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,599
what we've seen in Sacramento to date.

632
00:29:25,519 --> 00:29:27,559
Speaker 2: Do you struggle with that though? Like this is a

633
00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:30,240
broad thing. We used to talk about this with what

634
00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:33,559
the Nets got for Kevin Durant, where it's like, do

635
00:29:33,599 --> 00:29:38,279
you credit the Raptors for doing pretty well by getting

636
00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:40,240
what they could out of a situation where they had

637
00:29:40,359 --> 00:29:43,640
very little leverage? But they also had very little leverage

638
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,680
because they like fucked it up and didn't trade the

639
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,640
guy when they should have. Like how do you know

640
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,559
what I mean? Like, I don't know how to split

641
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:50,960
those two thoughts in my head.

642
00:29:51,559 --> 00:29:53,079
Speaker 1: I struggle with it too, And I mean I mentioned

643
00:29:53,119 --> 00:29:55,880
at the top, I do my grade and they will

644
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,720
all reflect I'm trying to look at it in the moment,

645
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:00,960
I think that other stuff is an iportant backstore, because

646
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,519
if you're wondering why our grades aren't lower, it's because

647
00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:07,559
we're not looking at it and saying like that that vaunted. Uh,

648
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,920
what was it four first round picks for Ogiananobi, which

649
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,039
by the way, we could like, didn't we find out

650
00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:14,519
later like only two of them were real or something?

651
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,119
Speaker 2: So it was four with an asterisk for sure.

652
00:30:17,599 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: But you have to you don't have to necessarily operate

653
00:30:20,079 --> 00:30:22,400
in this case. In most cases, I think you need

654
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,279
to operate under the assumption that teams aren't actively choosing

655
00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:27,640
a bad deal and so you're trying to grate it

656
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,440
in the moment. But with Toronto, it's fascinating because there

657
00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:34,000
there is an alternative path not traveled. But in that moment,

658
00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:37,359
I want you have to point me to which teams

659
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,640
we're giving them two first round picks that had a

660
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,359
higher upside than quickly embarra it And I don't think

661
00:30:42,359 --> 00:30:44,880
that maybe one first round pick high and if you're

662
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,599
if you're trying to look at cost control, maybe you

663
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,839
think that's more valuable. But I think in terms of

664
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,240
the upside of these players, if quickly signed for a

665
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,599
little bit less or wasn't injured. This might be like

666
00:30:55,119 --> 00:30:56,720
flat a's for both of these teams.

667
00:30:56,759 --> 00:30:59,279
Speaker 2: Could be Yeah, and he's got time, like he might

668
00:30:59,359 --> 00:31:03,680
be a mid tier like properly paid starting point guard

669
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,039
that's young enough to feel good about. Like that's a

670
00:31:06,119 --> 00:31:07,880
year from now, we might be saying all those things

671
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,759
about him. We'll just have to see.

672
00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:14,119
Speaker 1: Our next deal. Pascal Siakam to the Indiana Pacers. The

673
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,400
Pacers received Siakam, the Raptors received Bruce Brown, Jordan Warra,

674
00:31:18,839 --> 00:31:22,119
Kyle Lewis Junior. Which I thought that trade was like

675
00:31:22,759 --> 00:31:25,720
conjoined with the Pelicans, but apparently they were separate transactions.

676
00:31:25,799 --> 00:31:27,559
It helped the Pelicans get out of the attack, so

677
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,640
if you want to fact grade that accordingly. And then

678
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,279
they got two twenty twenty four first round picks. One

679
00:31:34,319 --> 00:31:36,799
of them ended up being number nineteen, which the Raptors

680
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,039
kept and drafted Jacobi Walter. The other pick ended up

681
00:31:40,039 --> 00:31:43,039
being number twenty nine and Isaiah Collier. They sent that

682
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,079
out though before the draft. In the deal that brough

683
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,039
Kelly Olynik and o Chai Akbaji to Toronto, they also

684
00:31:50,119 --> 00:31:52,200
have and I'll get the pick commitment right this time.

685
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,519
Pacers fans a twenty twenty six first round pick from Indiana.

686
00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:59,000
It's top four protected in twenty six and twenty seven,

687
00:31:59,119 --> 00:32:01,119
and then it turns into two seconds.

688
00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: Man, uh is talk me down from an A for

689
00:32:08,519 --> 00:32:11,279
the Pacers, Well, just I'll spoil it now I have

690
00:32:11,359 --> 00:32:13,480
a B plus, so you might need to talk me

691
00:32:13,599 --> 00:32:15,200
up to like an Maybe we meet it an A

692
00:32:15,319 --> 00:32:22,160
minus considering what those picks turned into. Considering the twenty

693
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,799
six and or twenty seven first going to Toronto, like,

694
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,720
you know, we assume the Pacers they're looking better. Now

695
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:32,960
that's not going to be you know, a high lottery

696
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,599
pick and it's got top four protection. I guess if

697
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:42,400
you're not giving Indian a which I'm not. I think

698
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,559
the extension for a thirty year old Siakam, which they

699
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,799
just had to do. Unfortunately they did the four for

700
00:32:47,839 --> 00:32:49,839
one to eighty nine instead of you know, they did

701
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,440
the most that anyone else could do but a little better,

702
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,279
but didn't go full bot because they could have done

703
00:32:54,319 --> 00:32:58,000
five years, right, am I remembering that correctly? So I

704
00:32:58,039 --> 00:33:02,359
think I think think maybe I'm not in love with

705
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,039
four for one eighty nine for Siakam starting in his

706
00:33:06,079 --> 00:33:08,680
age thirty season, which I think I have that that

707
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,119
that right, it's still a high grade. It's a B

708
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,000
plus for me. Give me you instead of me talking

709
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:16,920
you down, talk me up from the B plus.

710
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,599
Speaker 1: What so you're just you don't like his contract.

711
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: I'm just that's I'm trying to reserve the a's for

712
00:33:23,839 --> 00:33:26,839
like just yeah, of course, like that's that's as good

713
00:33:26,839 --> 00:33:29,880
as it gets. Like I I don't love his contract.

714
00:33:30,039 --> 00:33:35,039
I I think like you really did. And the Pacers

715
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:37,039
probably care less about this than most because they always

716
00:33:37,079 --> 00:33:39,079
want to be competitive. You kind of locked yourself at

717
00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:45,599
Haliburton Supermax siakam like you're going for it with this group?

718
00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:47,839
Is Saca'm gonna be good enough in the out years

719
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,279
of that deal? I don't know. Do you care about that?

720
00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:53,240
Since maybe you just care about the first two. Just

721
00:33:53,279 --> 00:33:55,680
give me the justifications for coming up from a B plus.

722
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:56,480
I'm open to it.

723
00:33:58,079 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: They got a credible all star, didn't have to give

724
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,559
him a five year full boat have yet unless you

725
00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:07,000
think that twenty six pick has a ton of value.

726
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,840
They didn't give up any of the blue chip prospects

727
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,840
and Benetmath or Jarris Walker maybe you would have preferred

728
00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:15,840
they went that route. They also got to keep Andrew

729
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,199
Nemhard the primary matching salary in this deal. They didn't

730
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:22,000
even have, they didn't draft, they didn't have to trade

731
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,360
to acquire. They just signed Bruce Brown to a deal

732
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,559
and then use it as the folkrum to land a

733
00:34:26,599 --> 00:34:29,039
credible all star who, by the way, is a really

734
00:34:29,079 --> 00:34:33,480
good fit alongside Tyre's Halliburton. Now you can talk about

735
00:34:33,599 --> 00:34:36,400
should they have made have they should have made other

736
00:34:36,519 --> 00:34:39,679
subsequent moves since then, they still kind of not addressed

737
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:43,480
the wing situation. But I don't know. I just you're

738
00:34:43,519 --> 00:34:46,320
a team in Indiana where you could let's use Ojiannaobe

739
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,320
as an example. He would have been a better fit

740
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,639
for this team, I think. But you can't go after

741
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,000
him and even give up this same package if you're

742
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,079
not confident you're gonna keep him. That's not the type

743
00:34:55,079 --> 00:34:57,440
of team the Pacers are. It's not the type of

744
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,719
market that Indiana is, and so you then kept him

745
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,920
like this is not you know, you could say who

746
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,400
else was gonna pay Pascal Siakam? Okay, but like there weren't.

747
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,880
Probably the Kings wanted to trade for Pascal Siakam. He

748
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,519
didn't want to go there either. So I'm just looking

749
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:15,000
at this value and the way to talk, I'll go

750
00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:17,199
a minus because you're right, like you should reserve the

751
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,039
a's for could they have quibbled over something here, but

752
00:35:20,199 --> 00:35:23,280
just like they've sent out picks that didn't like, number

753
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,519
nineteen is the highest, and what is Jakobe Walter gonna be?

754
00:35:27,199 --> 00:35:29,679
So unless you think that twenty six first round pick

755
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,599
has a ton of upside, and maybe you do based

756
00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:34,920
off the unevenness of Tyres Haliburton until the past whatever

757
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,920
month and a half or two months or just even

758
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,639
the injuries, that hamstring stuff constantly lingering, I'm I'm sympathetic

759
00:35:41,679 --> 00:35:43,599
to that. But I look at this is and I've

760
00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:45,719
always just been higher on Pascal Siakam, and I think

761
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,639
you almost have him, maybe not on the perfect deal,

762
00:35:48,679 --> 00:35:51,199
but through his age thirty with no options. By the way,

763
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,159
maybe you prefer player option if you think that he

764
00:35:53,199 --> 00:35:57,119
would opt out and negotiate down, but like, I don't know,

765
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,800
I think that that's gonna stretch through basically his entire prime.

766
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,199
If the out years are bad, I would think it's

767
00:36:02,199 --> 00:36:03,000
the final season.

768
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's all. Those are all good arguments.

769
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,400
I think I probably do need to come up to

770
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,760
an A minus. Do you think, I mean, this is

771
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,199
not as good of a package for Toronto as the

772
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,639
Anenobe package, right because because unless you think Jacoby Walter

773
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,840
is going to be something which who knows but probably

774
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,320
you know, it hasn't blown anybody away so far this year,

775
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,360
he's shooting like under thirty percent from the three just

776
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:27,719
you know.

777
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,679
Speaker 1: He has over which is not I'm not he doesn't.

778
00:36:31,559 --> 00:36:33,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but we don't know. We don't know. And

779
00:36:33,639 --> 00:36:35,639
unless I guess, unless you think that twenty six or

780
00:36:35,679 --> 00:36:37,360
twenty seven first is going to be something like you,

781
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,480
this just isn't as good a return for Toronto. So

782
00:36:40,559 --> 00:36:43,760
that suggests that the Pacers did very well, I think,

783
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,199
is where I'm getting to. So yeah, I'll go a minus.

784
00:36:46,199 --> 00:36:47,679
I'll join you in the A range.

785
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do with the raptors on this one?

786
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,239
Because this is the one. It was harder for me

787
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,119
because I don't love the return to separate. If this

788
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:56,800
is all that was out there, why didn't you dre

789
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,239
bet Siakham sooner?

790
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:03,199
Speaker 2: That's yeah, it's the same. It's the same, Like it's

791
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,760
almost exactly the same situation, right like you just you

792
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,840
gotta a different package. That's like sort of harder to

793
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,840
evaluate because we know roughly even though Quickly hasn't played

794
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,719
like we understand R. J. Barrett and Quickly like, yeah, okay,

795
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,800
those are real players with some kind of track record,

796
00:37:18,559 --> 00:37:21,639
fairly projectable, I guess, even though we spent time talking

797
00:37:21,639 --> 00:37:24,840
about how who knows what quickly what what Toronto gets

798
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,719
here is, it's like I don't know, like like does

799
00:37:27,079 --> 00:37:29,039
does what are any of these guys gonna be?

800
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,679
Speaker 1: In general? Though to say they got they did get

801
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,400
three first round picks for Pascal Siakam, like you you

802
00:37:36,519 --> 00:37:38,320
can say that because that's what they got.

803
00:37:38,599 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 2: But doesn't that feel like you're overstating it?

804
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:41,599
Speaker 1: Oh?

805
00:37:41,639 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 2: It does?

806
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,159
Speaker 1: It does. But you also you didn't take on any

807
00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:48,719
long term money. You opted into keeping Bruce Brown for

808
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,039
this season to see what you could do with him.

809
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,440
So I don't. And it's tough because what was the

810
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,280
market at the time. It seemed like he didn't want

811
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,199
to go to the Kings. The Warriors apparently didn't think

812
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,920
he was good enough becau because the Warriors are fucking stupid.

813
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,280
Uh So I like I struggle. I'm not prepared to

814
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,280
give them a super high grade here because I still

815
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,400
think like you couldn't. You didn't have the leverage to

816
00:38:11,639 --> 00:38:14,119
like get Andrew Nemhard instead of one of these first

817
00:38:14,159 --> 00:38:16,960
round picks. And look, you did get a loosely protected

818
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,199
pick at the time three drafts into the future. So

819
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,960
like that's kind of a like a solid I just

820
00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:26,360
this deal doesn't move me, but I don't know that

821
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,920
I'm prepared to destroy it unless you want to grade

822
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,159
it through or grade it against the fact that, well

823
00:38:32,159 --> 00:38:34,480
they should have moved Siakam a year sooner or something.

824
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Agbaji is not an insignificant part of this,

825
00:38:38,519 --> 00:38:41,320
even though he's kind of like a second related trade, right,

826
00:38:41,559 --> 00:38:44,920
So I'm I'm definitely not gonna this is gonna be

827
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,199
in above average grade. I'm just trying to decide how

828
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,079
to how far to go for the Raptors because I

829
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:51,599
am just gonna divorce the same like, well, they could

830
00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:53,679
have done better that I did from the Anonobe side

831
00:38:53,679 --> 00:38:54,639
of it, I'm gonna try I have.

832
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: For what it's worth. I'm a C plus basically like

833
00:38:57,559 --> 00:39:00,239
Ochai Baji shooting over forty percent from the three read

834
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,119
is year, so he's been way better than he was.

835
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:07,119
Speaker 2: Good defender, Like he's a real player. I wish I knew.

836
00:39:07,559 --> 00:39:10,360
I mean, part of this is like there was must

837
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,280
have been some thinking that Bruce Brown was gonna be

838
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,400
someone that they could, oh, we'll flip him and for

839
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,360
a first or something like there was gonna be more

840
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,599
value to extract than Brown just was hurt all year

841
00:39:18,639 --> 00:39:21,400
and who knows what his market value is now, certainly

842
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,000
not a first round pick. I wouldn't think I'm gonna

843
00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:31,239
go b minus okay, but it yeah, like it's one

844
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,199
of those trades that on paper at the time looked

845
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,559
better because you could just say it was three first rounders,

846
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,800
and then you saw what two of them became, and

847
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,119
it's like, all right, I don't know, not moving the needle.

848
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: And look, you could talk yourself in there being we're saying,

849
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,639
what's the upside of the twenty twenty six first round pick.

850
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,719
The Indiana Pacers aren't the Oklahoma City thunder Like, there

851
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,239
is variance to what could happen with them, especially if

852
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,840
Tyre's Halliburton's gonna deal with the hamstring stuff, or they

853
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,599
don't make you look at this team the way they've

854
00:39:57,599 --> 00:40:00,400
been playing of late, you still are never going to

855
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,000
trust their defense with the current personnel you and Aarony

856
00:40:03,039 --> 00:40:06,599
Smith coming back, So there's probably some upside there, Like

857
00:40:06,679 --> 00:40:08,920
could is it outside the realm of possibly that next

858
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,199
year's pick is a lottery pick.

859
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,039
Speaker 2: No, that's possible.

860
00:40:13,159 --> 00:40:16,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's that's solid. So B minus for

861
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,559
UC plus for me our next trade. I don't think

862
00:40:19,599 --> 00:40:21,119
we're gonna be kind to at least one of these

863
00:40:21,159 --> 00:40:23,800
teams involved Terry Rozier to Miami Ran.

864
00:40:24,119 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Heat get Terry Rozier, the Charlotte Hornets

865
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,239
get Kyle Lowry and a twenty twenty seven first round

866
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:38,039
pick with lottery protection which becomes unprotected in twenty twenty eight. So, Dan,

867
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:40,880
why don't we start with the Hornets side of this?

868
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,280
Just just because? How do you feel about the Hornets

869
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:44,320
side of this deal? Oh?

870
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,679
Speaker 1: Run? The terror Rezier contracts looked a lot better the

871
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,119
way he was playing at the time of the trade,

872
00:40:50,679 --> 00:40:52,960
But you got a pick that at this rate with

873
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,519
the Jimmy Butler stuff going on, Like, are you what

874
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,800
is how comfering you? The Miami Heater going to be

875
00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:01,760
off team in twenty twenty seven.

876
00:41:02,039 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 2: I'm throwing my hands up. I don't know.

877
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: So I thought that was a really good piece of

878
00:41:08,559 --> 00:41:10,760
business for them, and you took on an expiring contract.

879
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,719
You saved the heat. They wanted to shave payroll. We

880
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,880
knew that, and you got off. Now with the benefit

881
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,920
of hindsight with the way that Terry Rozier has played

882
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,079
this year to the point where it's why is Terry

883
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:24,840
Rozier playing this year? They this is in a in

884
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,119
a minus? Like is what would be more perfect about it?

885
00:41:27,199 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 2: If?

886
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: Is it because it's only lottery protected in that first year? Like,

887
00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:32,039
so if you want to go a minus with that,

888
00:41:32,159 --> 00:41:34,639
did you have the leverage to go top ten? But

889
00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:38,719
that you got a distant first round pick, which is

890
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,400
just like for a non star, that's not something that

891
00:41:41,639 --> 00:41:45,920
traditionally happens. And so I'll go just because it is

892
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,079
the heat. But like, if you told me right now

893
00:41:48,159 --> 00:41:50,280
that they traded Terry Roseier for the number fifteen pick

894
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,000
in twenty seven, I'd probably give it an A.

895
00:41:52,159 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go, ah, it's an A for me, Like,

896
00:41:56,159 --> 00:41:58,840
I don't know what the level of player is that

897
00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:01,840
a team should be willing to give up. What might

898
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,480
be I don't know what percentage chance it is, but

899
00:42:04,639 --> 00:42:08,079
might be an unprotected future first like but I know

900
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,599
that that level is not Terry Rosier, Like that's like

901
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,159
you can't as the heat, the exposure to risk is

902
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:17,880
so high. And we're just talking about the Hornets side.

903
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,719
So it just flip everything you should. The Horns have

904
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,000
no business getting a potentially unprotected first for Terry Rozier,

905
00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:27,039
and they got it. And like the way things are

906
00:42:27,039 --> 00:42:30,599
going in Miami, I think the odds that that picked, yeah,

907
00:42:30,679 --> 00:42:34,079
like they really might get an incredibly valuable twenty eight first.

908
00:42:34,159 --> 00:42:37,559
And by the way, like if you're the Hornets taking

909
00:42:37,639 --> 00:42:41,280
on bad money, which Kyle Lowry was in the process

910
00:42:41,679 --> 00:42:44,719
to get something like that is just like textbook exactly

911
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,400
what you're supposed to do if you're in the Hornets position.

912
00:42:47,519 --> 00:42:50,199
So like from a from like a I don't know,

913
00:42:50,679 --> 00:42:53,960
what are your principles kind of perspective, the Hornets are

914
00:42:54,039 --> 00:42:54,679
getting it right.

915
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,119
Speaker 1: This predates the PJ. Washington trade we're going to talk about,

916
00:42:58,159 --> 00:43:00,800
and so it was at the time the harbinger of

917
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,079
oh okay, things are actually gonna be different for this team.

918
00:43:04,119 --> 00:43:06,840
They're not gonna be like the Bulls.

919
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: Basically, And I don't remember, but I would imagine at

920
00:43:10,039 --> 00:43:12,400
the time, like I didn't hate this at all because well,

921
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,480
the heat are going to be good forever, so and

922
00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:16,800
Terry Roseier will be better with the heat, because that's

923
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,280
also a thing that happens, and just the heat aren't

924
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,519
gonna be good forever doesn't feel like and Terry Rozier

925
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:23,960
has been terrible. So just just a huge win for

926
00:43:24,039 --> 00:43:26,480
Charlotte Flat a for me with the.

927
00:43:26,559 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: Heat, I do remember being not so down on it

928
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,320
in the moment, but the Terry Rozier contracts always made

929
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,800
me nervous because his they call it partially guaranteed for

930
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:39,480
next year, but he's guaranteed twenty four point six million

931
00:43:39,559 --> 00:43:42,760
of twenty six point nine million, so ninety plus percent.

932
00:43:43,199 --> 00:43:45,639
It's so he's on this huge number, which was always

933
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:51,159
uneasy in how is this not an F minus at

934
00:43:51,199 --> 00:43:53,079
this rate? Right now? What is the because even in

935
00:43:53,159 --> 00:43:56,719
real time, you are you gonna tell me that back

936
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,000
then when you the theory behind that tray was made

937
00:43:59,039 --> 00:44:01,599
more sense if you Okay, we have Jimmy Butler and

938
00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:03,800
man Adebayo lockdown, and that's who we're moving forward with.

939
00:44:04,119 --> 00:44:06,760
But by the offseason you were worried about Jimmy Butler's

940
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,199
of it. You can't tell me you weren't worried about

941
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,440
Jimmy Butler's availability at the end of twenty two. Like, so,

942
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,119
I like the logic looks worse now than it did

943
00:44:15,159 --> 00:44:17,880
at the time giving him the Jimmy Butler stuff that happened.

944
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,360
But like, as we know from the Ramona Shelbourne piece

945
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,800
over at ESPN, well, all the shits that happened, that's

946
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,559
been happening. Stuff's been deteriorating for quite some time behind

947
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:28,639
the scenes. And so to make this trade, and by

948
00:44:28,679 --> 00:44:30,960
the way, I know you can say part of it was, well,

949
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,480
you got off Lowry's contract and you saved all that money.

950
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,679
He was an expiring deal, like to pay that type

951
00:44:36,679 --> 00:44:39,840
of a price tag. And you can say, well, if

952
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:41,559
you knew they were going to be a playoff team

953
00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:44,199
in twenty twenty seven, like that will be this will

954
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:45,840
be the time to revisit that trade. Is that their

955
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,519
playoff team in twenty twenty seven, Maybe you're able to

956
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,320
for me, maybe I'm able to grade this more kindly.

957
00:44:51,599 --> 00:44:54,519
But as of right now, like and one like, they're

958
00:44:54,559 --> 00:44:56,960
not like I just it's not even so the OKAC

959
00:44:57,159 --> 00:45:00,559
pick as that goes this year's lottery protected that has

960
00:45:00,599 --> 00:45:02,480
the potential to be a disaster if it doesn't convey

961
00:45:02,519 --> 00:45:06,000
because it's unprotected. But this hornet's pick is even independent

962
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:08,199
of that, like, because even if you make the playoffs

963
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:09,960
this year and convey that thunder pick, there's still no

964
00:45:10,079 --> 00:45:12,280
guarantee at this rate that you're a playoff team in

965
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:13,320
twenty twenty seven.

966
00:45:14,119 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 2: I think if you it's got to just be an

967
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,800
f for the Heat. I think the only justification is

968
00:45:20,119 --> 00:45:22,679
this is the type of trade that they've made in

969
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,199
the past and basically like gotten away with it because

970
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,119
wasn't there wasn't there like a Goren drag Its trade

971
00:45:28,199 --> 00:45:30,840
years ago that involved them giving up at least one

972
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,119
first and it was just like, h that pick's going

973
00:45:33,159 --> 00:45:34,679
to be in the twenties because we're the Heat who

974
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,440
cares like and they really have, you know, not been

975
00:45:37,679 --> 00:45:40,760
badly burned by doing things like this in the past.

976
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:42,960
And this is just a reminder that, like, you know,

977
00:45:43,159 --> 00:45:46,239
nothing lasts forever. At some point you can't just continue

978
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,599
to flex and assume that these firsts you're putting out

979
00:45:50,599 --> 00:45:52,719
there on the table will not get actually gobbled up

980
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:54,159
in like really damaging ways.

981
00:45:54,679 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: The other thing too it did is it further encumbered

982
00:45:57,039 --> 00:46:01,719
them with regard to chasing fish bigger than Terry Rozier. Yeah,

983
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,800
right now, the earliest first round pick you could trade

984
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,039
is a conditional twenty twenty nine first round pick. Now

985
00:46:08,519 --> 00:46:10,119
they should by no means be doing that because we

986
00:46:10,199 --> 00:46:12,679
know that they're not good enough. But that's another thing

987
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:14,199
to factor in here. So I went F minus. What

988
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,800
are you gonna go with? I'll just go flat F Wow,

989
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:18,880
you're like ever the optimist.

990
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 2: I want to say, a big difference.

991
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:22,639
Speaker 1: We are on too?

992
00:46:23,039 --> 00:46:23,159
Speaker 2: Is this?

993
00:46:23,559 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: This is me?

994
00:46:24,079 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 2: Right?

995
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,199
Speaker 1: Boyon Bogdanovich to the New York Knicks, or maybe they

996
00:46:27,199 --> 00:46:29,519
should be known as the Quentin Grimes trade at this point,

997
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,880
but the Knicks received Boon b Magdanovich and Alec Burks.

998
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,119
The Pistons received Quentin Grimes, who proceeded to basically not

999
00:46:37,199 --> 00:46:39,719
play for them, and at least not play well. Evan Fournier,

1000
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,639
Malachi Flynn, Ryan Archie Diyakano new York second rounders in

1001
00:46:44,639 --> 00:46:48,079
twenty twenty eight and twenty twenty nine, as well as

1002
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,079
cash considerations. Grant, how are you feeling about this trade?

1003
00:46:52,119 --> 00:46:54,519
And even before that, would you like to know what

1004
00:46:54,639 --> 00:46:57,000
I gave? Now we're rendering the realm of I graded

1005
00:46:57,039 --> 00:46:58,920
this trade. Would you like to what my initial grades were?

1006
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 2: Can I guess what you what you gave it? So

1007
00:47:01,599 --> 00:47:05,840
you graded this like day of right, Yes I would.

1008
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,880
I'm gonna guess you gave the Knicks. Trying to get

1009
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,679
inside your brain a year ago about Bogdanovitch. See, I

1010
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,960
can't remember what we what was thought about, I say

1011
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,519
weak as we probably think the similar things. I bet

1012
00:47:18,559 --> 00:47:20,840
you gave the Knicks a B and you gave the

1013
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:25,119
Pistons a B plus, because I think we liked Grimes

1014
00:47:25,159 --> 00:47:25,599
at the time.

1015
00:47:26,679 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 1: So I gave the Pistons a B plus. I gave

1016
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,360
the Knicks an A minus. Oh, I thought Madonovitch was

1017
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,320
exactly what they needed. Is kind of a stop gap.

1018
00:47:37,119 --> 00:47:41,519
And I'll say this right now, my grade is substantially

1019
00:47:41,599 --> 00:47:44,559
lower now. I think for the Pistons it ends up

1020
00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:46,840
being the same grade. I just don't know, Like, what

1021
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,039
else were you gonna get for those players. The fact

1022
00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:53,039
that you then, I think, undervalued Quentin Grimes because his

1023
00:47:53,599 --> 00:47:56,039
like the the Quentin Grimes era. So to speaking, Detroit

1024
00:47:56,119 --> 00:47:58,480
wasn't off to a banger start, But those are those

1025
00:47:58,519 --> 00:48:00,559
could be two nice seconds when you like the Knicks

1026
00:48:00,559 --> 00:48:03,119
are towing a very fine line moving forward, so I

1027
00:48:03,159 --> 00:48:05,440
think I'll stick with a B plus for them. I

1028
00:48:05,519 --> 00:48:07,639
probably would give them a higher grade of Quenton Grimes

1029
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:09,719
was still on the roster and playing like he has

1030
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,760
in Dallas for much of this year. The Knicks, they

1031
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,719
did use Moian Badnovitch as the primary matching salary in

1032
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,960
the mcal Bridges trade. However, they could have just picked

1033
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,079
up Evan Fourty his team options and done the same thing.

1034
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:25,480
And so this trade to me ends up being a

1035
00:48:25,599 --> 00:48:29,599
D plus for them. They gave up valuable draft equity,

1036
00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:32,880
and they gave up Quenton Grimes, and they did it

1037
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,480
for a player who then they proceeded to underutil He

1038
00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:37,920
wasn't perfect, and then at times they gave him a shot,

1039
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,480
it wasn't perfect. They didn't give him a big enough

1040
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,000
shot during the regular season to figure this thing out,

1041
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,679
especially in the backdrop of Julius Randall spending so much

1042
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,440
time injured. That was a miss on their part. And again,

1043
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,239
I don't think now if you had kept all these assets,

1044
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,159
who's to say they just wouldn't have given Quenton Grimes

1045
00:48:55,199 --> 00:48:58,159
emmy seconds to Brooklyn in the mchal Bridges trade as well.

1046
00:48:58,559 --> 00:49:01,239
I don't know, but like you can't say Brooklyn didn't

1047
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,280
acquire boy and a Bogdanovitch thinking he was an actual player.

1048
00:49:04,519 --> 00:49:07,000
So to me, there's not a functional difference between having

1049
00:49:07,079 --> 00:49:09,480
sent him out in that trade and having Evan Fourgay's

1050
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:09,920
team option.

1051
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think at the time the Knicks were justified.

1052
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,679
I think this made sense if you thought Bogdanovich was

1053
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,000
gonna be the type of help that they needed. I

1054
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:21,559
think I would just oversimplify it and say, like the

1055
00:49:21,639 --> 00:49:23,920
Knicks have to get below a sea because they would

1056
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,000
not do this again, like if they got if they

1057
00:49:26,039 --> 00:49:28,800
had the opportunity, and the Pistons have to get above

1058
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,199
that because they absolutely would do this again like that.

1059
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,280
So I don't know that. Just to keep it real simple,

1060
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,280
I think I'm gonna be a little like I get

1061
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,039
it from the Knick's perspective, it didn't really ultimately hurt

1062
00:49:39,079 --> 00:49:41,800
them that much. I get losing Grimes in the second sucks,

1063
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:43,840
but I don't know the Grimes would have. I don't

1064
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,360
know what grimes this future was with the team.

1065
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,519
Speaker 1: That which is fair. But like when you're talking about

1066
00:49:48,639 --> 00:49:50,800
how depleted they are in their assets, soores they have

1067
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,599
two swaps and a fake first, Yeah, that they can

1068
00:49:53,639 --> 00:49:57,079
trade like this stuff. We might over romanticize second round picks,

1069
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,519
but this shit matters when you're try kind of figure

1070
00:50:00,519 --> 00:50:03,840
out stuff on the margins. And I think I'd be more,

1071
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,679
I'd be be I'd be kinder to this regrade if

1072
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,039
I didn't think that what was the I'm even looking

1073
00:50:11,079 --> 00:50:12,599
at it. What was the point of giving this up

1074
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,880
relative to how much you leaned on Boyan Bodanovitch after

1075
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:16,440
you had him?

1076
00:50:16,679 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, Yeah, I think I think that's fair. Maybe

1077
00:50:20,519 --> 00:50:23,239
the other thing to consider though, is, like, you know,

1078
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,079
we've we've done some trades with big names that have

1079
00:50:26,639 --> 00:50:29,440
you know, signed big contracts and and had like real

1080
00:50:29,519 --> 00:50:32,960
consequential impacts. Like really nobody involved on either side of

1081
00:50:33,039 --> 00:50:35,719
this trade has like done much. I guess Grimes is

1082
00:50:36,039 --> 00:50:39,559
you know, the top of that list, So like I don't.

1083
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:41,880
So here's here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna give

1084
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,400
the Nicks a C minus, which is about as nice

1085
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,760
as I can be on the negative side, And I'm

1086
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,920
gonna give the Pistons I don't know know, how do

1087
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:52,760
we tie in the heart like hardaway has been good

1088
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,000
for them? Would I would they rather have like that

1089
00:50:55,119 --> 00:50:58,280
was a weird like Branch point too. I have trash

1090
00:50:58,360 --> 00:50:58,840
that trade.

1091
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: I just don't understand I had to get yeah Grimes

1092
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,159
in it, but Hardaway has like he's helped their spacing

1093
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:05,840
and look right.

1094
00:51:06,199 --> 00:51:08,760
Speaker 2: Even if hardway of the player, it's just like he's

1095
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:09,599
mattered for them.

1096
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: Grimes was bad and injured in Detroit. So there's that.

1097
00:51:13,639 --> 00:51:15,400
I think sticking for me a B plus, I'll stick

1098
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:16,480
with it. I'm not gonna go higher.

1099
00:51:16,679 --> 00:51:18,559
Speaker 2: I'll go I'll give the Pistons a B and the

1100
00:51:18,639 --> 00:51:21,360
Knicks a C minus. How about how lower it for

1101
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:22,320
the Pistons than you?

1102
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,599
Speaker 1: That confuses me. I don't know what is the how

1103
00:51:25,679 --> 00:51:27,639
I'm I almost feel like, shouldn't you be close? Why

1104
00:51:27,639 --> 00:51:29,800
aren't we closer to an F for the Knicks? Is

1105
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,199
it just because we understood the logic in real time?

1106
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:34,280
It wasn't completely blasphemous.

1107
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 2: It's it's partly that which is maybe maybe shouldn't be

1108
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,280
part of the consideration. But also it's just like I

1109
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,159
don't feel like your point about the seconds and the

1110
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,920
lack of depth I think is right, But like this

1111
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:50,920
isn't This isn't like we're not a good We're not

1112
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,199
gonna feel the ripple effects of this trade, like we

1113
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,320
may not be feeling them at all anymore. Really, So

1114
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,679
I just it's such a small time thing that I

1115
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,159
don't I'm not moved to go to be too harsh.

1116
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 1: I just what did boying by Donovic play when he

1117
00:52:05,039 --> 00:52:07,559
when he went to the Knicks last year nineteen point

1118
00:52:07,599 --> 00:52:11,119
two minutes per game and only twenty nine appearances, And

1119
00:52:11,199 --> 00:52:15,559
in the playoffs he was twelve point eight minutes per

1120
00:52:15,639 --> 00:52:19,840
game and four appearances. So I don't know, I'm gonna

1121
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,400
this might be a D Do I need to be lower?

1122
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 2: I mean, like he really they got nothing out of

1123
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:26,280
this basically, the Knicks.

1124
00:52:26,599 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: They they used boy mcdubber's part of mcal bridges trade,

1125
00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:32,639
but they didn't need like they unless you like they

1126
00:52:32,679 --> 00:52:34,599
could they had evan formation right.

1127
00:52:34,599 --> 00:52:36,119
Speaker 2: Right right, it could have been for Okay, I'm gonna go.

1128
00:52:36,199 --> 00:52:38,320
I'm gonna go instead of C minus, I'll go D plus.

1129
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,440
That feels that feels more reflective.

1130
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna go D minus. I've talked myself into

1131
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,199
being lower. I understand I was so high on it

1132
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,480
in real time, So maybe I'm just crestfallen, is what

1133
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:50,039
it is. Sorry, Nick, can't be mad. I gave you

1134
00:52:50,079 --> 00:52:52,559
an A for the ogn Andobi trade. Grant, what is next?

1135
00:52:53,159 --> 00:52:55,639
Speaker 2: All right? A deal I kind of forgot about. Uh.

1136
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,679
So the Sixers get Buddy Healed. Uh this is a

1137
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,440
three team trade, so buckle up. The Pacers get for

1138
00:53:01,599 --> 00:53:04,039
con Korkmas. Another person I have not thought about since

1139
00:53:04,039 --> 00:53:07,440
the last trade deadline Doug McDermott. A twenty four second

1140
00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:11,480
from Toronto via the Sixers which turned into Wannonyez, a

1141
00:53:11,559 --> 00:53:15,599
twenty nine second from Portland via Philly and the Spurs

1142
00:53:15,639 --> 00:53:18,599
get Marcus Morris and a twenty nine second from the

1143
00:53:18,639 --> 00:53:23,119
Clippers via the Sixers. Dan, I mean the Buddy Healed

1144
00:53:23,199 --> 00:53:25,840
side of this is the most consequential, I guess. So

1145
00:53:26,039 --> 00:53:28,519
let's start with the Sixers side of it. Do you

1146
00:53:28,679 --> 00:53:29,960
how do you feel about that for them?

1147
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 1: So my initial grade for the Sixers, grand can you

1148
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:33,360
want to try and guess what it was?

1149
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 2: Probably an A A plus. Yeah.

1150
00:53:36,559 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 1: At the time of the trade, the Sixers were twenty

1151
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,559
sixth in three point to ten to three and twenty

1152
00:53:40,639 --> 00:53:44,719
seven and made three pointers to just get Buddy Healed.

1153
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,320
I was just like, for this, oh, this is great. Well,

1154
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,480
he ended up turning into a pumpkin for them. He

1155
00:53:50,599 --> 00:53:53,880
kind of like he had some of those moments towards

1156
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,800
the postseason. What I will say they weren't able to

1157
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:02,079
then flip him to the Warriors, and they got Dallas's

1158
00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:05,320
twenty thirty one second as part of that trade. So

1159
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,599
you can look at that and say, Okay, I don't Also,

1160
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,159
you're looking at what they gave up now, and it's

1161
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,079
all right, what did they like, what are they really

1162
00:54:14,119 --> 00:54:17,119
gonna miss? Maybe that Portland second rounder, but they've all

1163
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,760
would you rather have Portland's twenty twenty nine second or Dallas's, Well,

1164
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,000
you had to send a pick to the Spurs. I

1165
00:54:24,079 --> 00:54:29,039
mean this ends up being because I guess it's C

1166
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,920
minus just because you were able to get You're you're

1167
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,960
basically down one intriguing second round pick as a result

1168
00:54:35,039 --> 00:54:37,920
of this trade. And is that worth going to a

1169
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:38,440
D plus?

1170
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,280
Speaker 2: Well, this is the thing that this is where like

1171
00:54:41,599 --> 00:54:44,719
I'm reverse justifying it again because like if you said

1172
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,239
sixers you're gonna be you will be down one intriguing

1173
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,679
second to use your phrasing, which I think is right

1174
00:54:51,519 --> 00:54:55,119
for the chance that Buddy Healed solves your shooting problems,

1175
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,800
they'd be like yes, well obviously they said yes, and

1176
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,559
like no question, Like that's great logic. I have no

1177
00:55:01,679 --> 00:55:04,320
problem with that logic. Like Buddy Heeld should have been helpful.

1178
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,480
And by the way, he shot thirty nine percent with

1179
00:55:06,599 --> 00:55:09,360
the sixers from three he wasn't playing the time he

1180
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,719
made it. Yeah, he didn't play, and like it just

1181
00:55:12,199 --> 00:55:15,199
it's the Buddy Heeld experience. I understand it now firsthand.

1182
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,440
It's this is another one that's okay, we gotta just.

1183
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 1: For I'm going to try to I can simplify this

1184
00:55:21,519 --> 00:55:21,719
for you.

1185
00:55:22,079 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 2: Do it.

1186
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:29,679
Speaker 1: They traded number thirty six and Portland's twenty twenty nine

1187
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,159
second round pick, and the Clippers is twenty twenty nine

1188
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:35,440
second round pick for Dallas's twenty thirty one second round pick.

1189
00:55:36,679 --> 00:55:39,119
Speaker 2: That's ultimately what they land with it. They gave up

1190
00:55:39,159 --> 00:55:41,239
three seconds for one basically, and.

1191
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 1: That's actually an awful trade.

1192
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:47,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you look at what they're left with, it's

1193
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,800
not good. I think, so how low do it? This

1194
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:52,360
is another one though, where it's like how much of

1195
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,480
an impact did it really have? Like and is that

1196
00:55:54,599 --> 00:55:56,440
a factor? Like can you get into that?

1197
00:55:56,679 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 1: Look a look at the deal on the vacuum. Is

1198
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,800
it that yeah, number thirty six two twenty twenty nine

1199
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,119
second round picks, one from Portland, one from the Clippers

1200
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,719
for Dallas's twenty thirty one pick. Even if you think

1201
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,800
that's the most intriguing pick, not worth all three of

1202
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,039
those things, This is a D D minus.

1203
00:56:12,119 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm with you. Oh, let's let's just give it

1204
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,920
a D. That's that's that's that's really bad when you

1205
00:56:17,039 --> 00:56:17,480
look at.

1206
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,599
Speaker 1: It that way. Well, I'm simplifying it correctly though, right,

1207
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,199
I think no other because you're not gonna get like,

1208
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,280
you know, the furk on cork mas of it all. Whatever,

1209
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,760
So what is it we killed? I killed the Pacers

1210
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,400
for it, I believe. Let me scroll down here. I

1211
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:34,519
gave the Pacers. I gave the Pacers a C minus.

1212
00:56:35,559 --> 00:56:38,760
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, the Pacer side of it. I'm trying

1213
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:42,000
to think, like, I mean, they made the conference finals,

1214
00:56:42,039 --> 00:56:46,679
but like they did seem to lose something when without

1215
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,320
healed there and then definitely early this season when they

1216
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,119
just looked so bad. It was like, oh man, they

1217
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:55,719
just missed that movement shooter that bent defenses like it's greener. Yeah, yeah,

1218
00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:00,320
so that is it does feel obviously, like you know,

1219
00:57:01,519 --> 00:57:03,199
I don't know how much we can really say they

1220
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,679
missed Buddy Heeled now with a little more distance from it,

1221
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,400
but it doesn't doesn't feel like a I don't know.

1222
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,639
I guess if you really like that twenty nine second

1223
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:16,360
from Portland that maybe that that makes you feel positively.

1224
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,400
But well, I think they could still use Buddy Heeled.

1225
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with you, but I'm not sure how

1226
00:57:25,039 --> 00:57:27,199
to reconcile it with this. When you look at so

1227
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,920
the Pacers as of right now are and I'm rounding

1228
00:57:30,079 --> 00:57:32,639
up one hundred and fifty thousand dollars away from the

1229
00:57:32,719 --> 00:57:36,320
luxury tax, how were they functionally? They're not going to

1230
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,519
pay the tax? No, so what even with Buddy Heeld's

1231
00:57:39,519 --> 00:57:41,280
salary right now, they would have been five million dollars

1232
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,239
into this. Now you could say, could they maybe have

1233
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,159
paid Obi Topping a little bit less and gamed it

1234
00:57:46,239 --> 00:57:50,400
that way? I don't know, but I think if we're

1235
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,400
looking at it and saying they weren't going to keep him,

1236
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,119
and given how unimpactful he was for the Sixers and

1237
00:57:57,199 --> 00:58:00,760
how he's kind of petered out for the Warriors, I'll

1238
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,639
probably stick with us. I'll upgrade them to a sea

1239
00:58:04,239 --> 00:58:06,639
I would have preferred they kept him and let Obi

1240
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,280
top and walk if we're being honest. But so maybe

1241
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:10,960
I should stick with the C minus. I just don't

1242
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,159
know how realistic that is. But given what Buddy Heel

1243
00:58:14,199 --> 00:58:18,599
has done since like getting two seconds for him.

1244
00:58:18,519 --> 00:58:24,599
Speaker 2: Leaving, I think, especially if you view it as they

1245
00:58:24,679 --> 00:58:27,119
weren't going to keep him, that changes it for me.

1246
00:58:27,199 --> 00:58:29,000
If it's just like, well, this is a we'll take

1247
00:58:29,039 --> 00:58:30,039
back something.

1248
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 1: And they tried to keep him, he wouldn't sign. He

1249
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:32,679
probably by the way, he.

1250
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 2: Forgot about that. What was it like four for eighty something.

1251
00:58:38,559 --> 00:58:42,199
Wasn't that like I think that was like being kicked around? Yeah,

1252
00:58:42,239 --> 00:58:44,199
that he turned down or whatever for at.

1253
00:58:44,159 --> 00:58:46,039
Speaker 1: Least double what he's making now.

1254
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:51,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I guess I'm just gonna go. I see

1255
00:58:51,199 --> 00:58:54,599
minus is tempting, but uh, I think maybe if you

1256
00:58:54,719 --> 00:58:56,719
view it through the prism of like the he'll just

1257
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:58,800
wasn't going to be on this team, so getting anything

1258
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,519
is good. I'll just go I'll go see because I mean,

1259
00:59:01,599 --> 00:59:02,599
how much did it really matter?

1260
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:04,079
Speaker 1: You know what, I'm going to be more of a

1261
00:59:04,199 --> 00:59:06,679
Doom's dayer than you and says stick with my C

1262
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,719
minus because if you're asking me whether I would have

1263
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:11,639
rather seen him play out the rest of the year

1264
00:59:11,719 --> 00:59:15,360
in Indy versus having these two second round picks. I

1265
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,159
would have rather seen him play the rest of the

1266
00:59:17,199 --> 00:59:17,840
year out in Indy.

1267
00:59:18,039 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 2: Maybe he wins them a playoff game or something right like,

1268
00:59:20,559 --> 00:59:23,079
and at the level they reached, that could be consequential.

1269
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,559
Speaker 1: So no, no big change of there. So the Spurs

1270
00:59:26,599 --> 00:59:28,159
side of this, would you care to cass what I gave?

1271
00:59:28,239 --> 00:59:30,440
Look what I gave them in real time?

1272
00:59:31,039 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 2: So let's see are they giving them? They gave up

1273
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,840
McDermott right because he was on the Spurs. I think.

1274
00:59:39,519 --> 00:59:39,559
Speaker 1: So.

1275
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 2: You probably liked getting a twenty nine second, but I

1276
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:45,199
don't know how much you liked it. I'll say you

1277
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:48,719
gave the Spurs. I'll say you gave him a B plus.

1278
00:59:49,119 --> 00:59:52,199
Speaker 1: I gave him an A plus. Wow, I will stick

1279
00:59:52,239 --> 00:59:55,559
with an A plus. And do you want to know why? Yeah? Persistence.

1280
00:59:55,719 --> 00:59:57,840
They couldn't get Marcus Morris once upon a time in

1281
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,039
free agencies, they went out and traded for him. I

1282
01:00:00,159 --> 01:00:01,159
respect the hell out of that.

1283
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:03,519
Speaker 2: Oh I forgot about that.

1284
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:07,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was in all serious though, like some really

1285
01:00:08,079 --> 01:00:10,679
rock solid asset management from San Antonio. When you're looking

1286
01:00:10,719 --> 01:00:12,639
at some of these deals what they just did this

1287
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:16,000
past offseason. So, but I do think what is not

1288
01:00:16,159 --> 01:00:17,239
to like about this trade?

1289
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just they're just getting stuff for nothing, for

1290
01:00:20,119 --> 01:00:23,239
like being involved basically. I mean, I'll give them, I'll

1291
01:00:23,239 --> 01:00:25,039
go ahead, I'll go a minus. I don't know, Like,

1292
01:00:25,199 --> 01:00:28,239
it's just why, all right, Why isn't it the perfect trade?

1293
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,719
Speaker 1: You think they could have gotten more for Dougie just.

1294
01:00:30,719 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 2: Because it doesn't matter that much. I don't know. I

1295
01:00:32,559 --> 01:00:35,519
want to save my a's and a plus's for like something.

1296
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: Other than that when that first round pick is included

1297
01:00:38,639 --> 01:00:43,800
in a trade for second rounder Devin Booker this summer. Okay,

1298
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,280
we're coup, we're circling back here, all.

1299
01:00:46,239 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 2: Right, fair, we'll re regrade if that happens.

1300
01:00:49,719 --> 01:00:57,039
Speaker 1: Oh boy, Gordon Hayward to the Oklahoma City Thunder. The

1301
01:00:57,159 --> 01:01:01,400
Thunder received Gordon Hayward. The Hornets received Trey Man and

1302
01:01:01,599 --> 01:01:03,280
Damas Burton's grant.

1303
01:01:04,599 --> 01:01:05,119
Speaker 2: What do you think?

1304
01:01:05,199 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 1: I great? We both were high on this trade, Yep,

1305
01:01:08,519 --> 01:01:10,360
we were. What do you think I gave the Thunder

1306
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:11,000
as a grade?

1307
01:01:11,199 --> 01:01:13,159
Speaker 2: I think you gave him an A because what if

1308
01:01:13,239 --> 01:01:16,400
Gordon Hayward gives you fourty to fifteen good minutes on

1309
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,480
a team that's already so good. Isn't that worth it?

1310
01:01:19,039 --> 01:01:21,599
Speaker 1: That was basically the logic. I gave them an A minus.

1311
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:26,840
I don't they didn't the opportunity cost here. Trey Man

1312
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:29,679
was balling to start the season, and now he's injured.

1313
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:33,199
I don't. He still wouldn't have been getting minutes if

1314
01:01:33,239 --> 01:01:35,599
he was still on this team. When you have Aaron

1315
01:01:35,599 --> 01:01:38,559
Wiggins and Isaiah Joe and Cason Wallace and Alice Caruso,

1316
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:42,960
he still wouldn't be getting minutes. So they there's real

1317
01:01:43,079 --> 01:01:45,440
there's no real fallout from here, But you can't give

1318
01:01:45,519 --> 01:01:47,599
them I appreciate them trying to make a swing, but

1319
01:01:47,679 --> 01:01:50,199
I think, why couldn't you have gone and rented a

1320
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:52,199
big then at that point in stead. I mean, this

1321
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:56,360
is a because I appreciate the swing, I'm gonna give

1322
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,679
them a D minus. But you could also say they

1323
01:01:59,719 --> 01:02:02,199
didn't compromise their cat flexibility that allowed them to go

1324
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:07,159
out and do the Isaiah Hartenstein move predominantly. But I'm

1325
01:02:07,199 --> 01:02:08,800
a little bit and I'm not. I don't subscribe to

1326
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:10,320
the idea. People were mad that they didn't trade for

1327
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,519
Daniel Gafford. I was like, oh you be the Daniel

1328
01:02:12,559 --> 01:02:14,480
Gafford who didn't really play in the series against them.

1329
01:02:14,719 --> 01:02:17,480
They did lose it. But so I'm gonna go D

1330
01:02:17,719 --> 01:02:20,199
minus here because like that was just a flub and

1331
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:24,400
they were they were good enough to think even more aggressively.

1332
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,119
Then let's just get this guy who like he's never

1333
01:02:27,199 --> 01:02:28,840
really healthy. Yeah.

1334
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, the opportunity cost is pretty legit.

1335
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: We'd get off of five million impartial guaranteed money of

1336
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:36,800
dobas Breton's too, so croos to them for that.

1337
01:02:37,519 --> 01:02:43,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was just an abject miss, like, hey,

1338
01:02:43,119 --> 01:02:46,840
we're just wasn't remotely helpful. I mean, man, you could

1339
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:48,719
make the case that man would have been more helpful,

1340
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,320
even though buried on the bench as he was. So

1341
01:02:51,679 --> 01:02:54,039
let's I'll go D minus is fine for the thunder

1342
01:02:54,119 --> 01:02:57,840
What about the Hornets though, Like, man is a I

1343
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,199
don't know, a third guard maybe on a good team

1344
01:03:00,239 --> 01:03:00,840
if he's healthy.

1345
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,440
Speaker 1: Like that's I mean, that's that made his own shot.

1346
01:03:03,639 --> 01:03:08,079
I yeah, he's not hell right now, but yeah, I

1347
01:03:10,039 --> 01:03:11,960
I mean they had to take on the Briton's like

1348
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:16,360
partial guarantee, So that's kind of bizarre. B minus.

1349
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 2: I was thinking be just because man like there's three

1350
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:22,639
players in the deal, and Man is the only one

1351
01:03:22,679 --> 01:03:24,880
that's got an NBA future, and he's like actually has

1352
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:26,320
a decent one, so like.

1353
01:03:27,039 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: Retired, he's playing now like that.

1354
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 2: We're not We're less than a year removed from the thunder.

1355
01:03:36,559 --> 01:03:38,119
Speaker 1: Could we even go higher that I'll go with a

1356
01:03:38,199 --> 01:03:39,880
B with you, I guess. But they got a flyer

1357
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:41,559
on a real player, I guess.

1358
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:45,920
Speaker 2: So yeah. Well, and they sort of paid for it

1359
01:03:46,039 --> 01:03:50,280
because of the Breton's guaranteed portion. But that's worth it,

1360
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:52,599
right to just get a guy that might be in

1361
01:03:52,679 --> 01:03:54,719
your rotation for they did.

1362
01:03:55,719 --> 01:04:00,119
Speaker 1: They saved however, they take on that partial guarantee, but

1363
01:04:00,239 --> 01:04:04,360
they saved more money immediately as the result of this trade.

1364
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:08,239
Speaker 2: Right, so they're probably cash positive overall in addition to

1365
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,480
getting the only player that's going to matter beyond this season.

1366
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: So thought that they could have done something more with

1367
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:18,280
trade Man's roster spot this year? Is this an A minus?

1368
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 2: I was gonna go to B plus, I was, I'll

1369
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:23,480
go B plus.

1370
01:04:23,559 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, that's fair. If we were. We assigned way

1371
01:04:29,119 --> 01:04:31,519
too much meaning to the Gordon Hayward trade when it happened.

1372
01:04:31,559 --> 01:04:33,920
I don't even I don't even blame the thunder for

1373
01:04:34,079 --> 01:04:36,599
our grade. My grade, I'll say declining so much. I

1374
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:38,760
was just I thought it was like, oh, yeah, they

1375
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:40,840
don't need to rush, which I was right, but it

1376
01:04:41,039 --> 01:04:44,800
just in a vacuum that like they didn't hurt themselves,

1377
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:47,480
to be clear, but it just it didn't even pan out.

1378
01:04:47,559 --> 01:04:47,840
Sort of.

1379
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:50,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were kind of thunder pilled. It's like, oh,

1380
01:04:50,519 --> 01:04:52,079
I if they did it, it must have been a

1381
01:04:52,119 --> 01:04:53,360
good decision at the time.

1382
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:55,679
Speaker 1: To be fair, I'm still thunder pilled.

1383
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, forever. Okay, So now we got something that

1384
01:04:59,119 --> 01:05:00,880
actually had some real ripple effects.

1385
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:01,079
Speaker 1: PJ.

1386
01:05:01,239 --> 01:05:04,519
Speaker 2: Washington to the Dallas Mavericks. Dallas gets PJ. Washington in

1387
01:05:04,639 --> 01:05:06,960
a twenty twenty four second, which became number fifty eight.

1388
01:05:07,159 --> 01:05:10,360
Knick's legend Ariol hook Porty at twenty twenty eight second.

1389
01:05:10,519 --> 01:05:13,360
That's the least favorable that's already been retraded. That's fun.

1390
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:17,880
The Hornets in the bargain get Grant Williams Seth Curry

1391
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:20,800
a twenty twenty seven first round pick with the top

1392
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:24,280
two protection, and then it becomes Miami's twenty eight second

1393
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:28,480
if it does not convey is that right correct? Okay? Dan,

1394
01:05:29,239 --> 01:05:32,559
how you feel about Let's just do the Mavericks side first.

1395
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,239
Speaker 1: What do you think I gave him at like first

1396
01:05:36,239 --> 01:05:36,679
time round?

1397
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 2: I know you gave him a bad grade. I'll say

1398
01:05:39,519 --> 01:05:41,119
you gave him a D plus.

1399
01:05:41,559 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 1: That is exactly what I gave them my logic at

1400
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,480
the time, I wrote, Washington is an upper echelont fit

1401
01:05:48,559 --> 01:05:50,920
in Dallas. He has some downhill in interior craftiness to

1402
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:52,639
his game, and he will knock down a higher percentage

1403
01:05:52,679 --> 01:05:55,480
of his threes while fielding passes from Luca and Kyrie.

1404
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 2: But oh, you already should have stopped. So far, so good.

1405
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 1: Dating back to the sign and trade transaction that landed

1406
01:06:02,079 --> 01:06:04,719
them Grant Williams this past offseason, the Mavericks have now

1407
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,360
turned a twenty twenty seven first rounder and an unprotected

1408
01:06:07,679 --> 01:06:12,960
twenty thirty swap into PJ Washington. Uh, that looks that

1409
01:06:13,039 --> 01:06:13,880
looks totally.

1410
01:06:13,679 --> 01:06:16,679
Speaker 2: Cool now, I think so well when framed that way,

1411
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:18,800
that is, that does feel like a lot for a

1412
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:21,000
guy who's a fifth starter right, Like, yes, but.

1413
01:06:21,079 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 1: It helped elevate them to Tier one title contender status.

1414
01:06:26,239 --> 01:06:26,400
Speaker 2: Yep.

1415
01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 1: Now this year's all up in like with just the

1416
01:06:29,119 --> 01:06:33,039
health of Luga Dncic and even I know Kyrie Ring's back, Like,

1417
01:06:33,199 --> 01:06:35,880
how high do you go because that twenty seven first

1418
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,159
round pick, it's so loosely protected. At the same time,

1419
01:06:39,199 --> 01:06:41,000
though you're going to be a good team if you

1420
01:06:41,079 --> 01:06:45,440
have Luca, then still I guess maybe there's some downside

1421
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:47,400
for them because Kyrie's on the older end. But you

1422
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:49,840
got off of the Grant Williams contract. What was clearly

1423
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,039
a like a miss for you, even though I think

1424
01:06:52,079 --> 01:06:54,599
it's fine overall. I mean, the injury of course changes

1425
01:06:54,679 --> 01:06:57,320
that I don't know what to go to here. Can

1426
01:06:57,360 --> 01:06:59,360
you talk me into a different grade I thought about

1427
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:01,679
I'm to be over correcting if I say an A.

1428
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:03,880
It's not an A trade by any means.

1429
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 2: I mean probably not. It's close the case you would

1430
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:11,760
make for giving and it's to me it's a minimum

1431
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:13,280
of A B plus and I'm kind of trying to

1432
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:15,800
get up into the A minus range. So let's see

1433
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,639
if we can get there. If you said, Dallas, you're

1434
01:07:18,679 --> 01:07:21,519
giving up all this and all I'm gonna tell you

1435
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,559
is that PJ. Washington will shoot forty seven percent from

1436
01:07:25,599 --> 01:07:29,360
three in the second round of the playoffs, you'd be like, okay,

1437
01:07:29,679 --> 01:07:32,599
like maybe one, we're in the second round, two, he's

1438
01:07:32,639 --> 01:07:34,480
maybe gonna help win US a series to get to

1439
01:07:34,559 --> 01:07:36,760
the conference finals. And then they go a step farther

1440
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:40,599
than that, like you might just defensive burden.

1441
01:07:40,679 --> 01:07:43,039
Speaker 1: He shouldered. Yeah, yeah, this isn't This.

1442
01:07:43,159 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 2: Is an A minus. I think I think it's gotta

1443
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:48,599
be in the A. I'll stop at the A minus.

1444
01:07:48,639 --> 01:07:50,760
We don't need to go full A because you are

1445
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:54,320
they did give up a first h Grant Williams injury,

1446
01:07:54,599 --> 01:07:57,280
Like there's a possibility that if Grant Williams stays healthy.

1447
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:59,559
We're just viewing those him and Washington as like pretty

1448
01:07:59,559 --> 01:08:03,480
comparable players this year. Maybe, so like to give up

1449
01:08:03,519 --> 01:08:07,000
a first also, like maybe you feel but like the

1450
01:08:07,079 --> 01:08:09,519
Mats did what they did and Washington was like a

1451
01:08:09,639 --> 01:08:12,920
real reason that they've made the finals. So like we

1452
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:17,119
I think as is about right here. Really good trade

1453
01:08:17,159 --> 01:08:19,560
by Dallas. Yeah what about the Hornets though?

1454
01:08:20,319 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, whoops, I'm already moving on to the next trade.

1455
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:23,279
Speaker 2: Uh so.

1456
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 1: Is it interesting? I don't I don't love Grant Williams

1457
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:31,359
as a player, but like as a front court player

1458
01:08:31,359 --> 01:08:33,600
who provides some stretch and can be moved around the

1459
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:36,000
defensive end. The injury colors this a little bit, but

1460
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:38,600
this was another sign that this team is thinking about

1461
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,399
the bigger picture. You got a top two protected pick

1462
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:45,399
from a team where aside from Derek Lively and Luga Dancis, Like,

1463
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:48,680
how confident are you in the rest of just the

1464
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:51,640
roster being as good as it is right in this moment?

1465
01:08:52,159 --> 01:08:54,680
I think that's a and especially with how PG Washington

1466
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:57,800
played for you that to day at that point, like

1467
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,520
the deal was, the contract was always fine, three years,

1468
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:03,800
forty eight million dollars. I think this is this also

1469
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:05,600
an as for them unless you really think that that

1470
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:07,000
Grant Williams deal is toxic.

1471
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,239
Speaker 2: I think it's so hard to div well if we

1472
01:09:10,359 --> 01:09:12,399
just have to deal with the circumstances as they are.

1473
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,960
It's like grandm Williams has a season ending injury and

1474
01:09:15,039 --> 01:09:20,199
that's gonna devalue him. I'm gonna I'm leaning B plus man.

1475
01:09:20,319 --> 01:09:23,199
But man, So here's the thinking, Like you credit the

1476
01:09:23,239 --> 01:09:26,720
Hornets because the guy, the PJ. Washington they traded was

1477
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:29,159
not the PJ Washington they had, Like he wasn't this

1478
01:09:29,399 --> 01:09:31,720
guy when he was on the Hornets, he like there

1479
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,119
were questions about his defense, right, and then suddenly he's

1480
01:09:34,239 --> 01:09:37,159
just a shutdown, versatile defensive player on a good seat,

1481
01:09:37,239 --> 01:09:39,800
Like you can't say he would have done that for them.

1482
01:09:40,319 --> 01:09:43,119
So for the Hornets, so it's like, I think that's

1483
01:09:43,119 --> 01:09:45,479
a credit to Charlotte. It's not like they don't look

1484
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:48,399
worse because PJ. Washington was awesome when he changed teams.

1485
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:50,800
That's just like he wasn't ever like James Harden was

1486
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:53,000
never gonna do anything for the Sixers, Like the fact

1487
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:55,239
that he did anything at all on the Clippers is

1488
01:09:55,319 --> 01:09:57,960
not a you know, can't reflect poorly on the Sixers.

1489
01:09:58,039 --> 01:10:03,560
Like similar logic and the twenty seven first, that's gonna

1490
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:07,000
convey and might be good. Probably not, though Dallas will

1491
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:07,479
still be good.

1492
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:10,079
Speaker 1: I'll go the other thing to me, that's when you

1493
01:10:10,159 --> 01:10:12,479
look at it through the protection lens. Okay, getting it

1494
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:16,000
so loosely protected is good because then there's upside if

1495
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,520
there's downside for Dallas. But you're also like, let's be

1496
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:21,399
honest and say that's gonna be number twenty.

1497
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, if it was twenty nine, then then maybe we're

1498
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:27,600
more interested. Right.

1499
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:30,000
Speaker 1: So I So if I said that to you that

1500
01:10:30,119 --> 01:10:33,920
it's a number twenty pick, does that change the grade

1501
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:34,239
at all?

1502
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 2: Well, it's not even right, And you're saying, you're saying,

1503
01:10:38,079 --> 01:10:40,520
if it is like it probably will be like in

1504
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:42,239
the in the twenty right, I mean no, no, for sure.

1505
01:10:42,159 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 1: But that is the trajectory that Dallas is right. It

1506
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:48,000
might even be I might be giving it too much value.

1507
01:10:48,159 --> 01:10:52,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right, it might be twenty seven. I'm yeah,

1508
01:10:52,359 --> 01:10:54,640
that's I'm still gonna B plus. For Charlotte, I think

1509
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,039
that it was the right process. They got a first

1510
01:10:57,479 --> 01:11:00,920
that they're gonna get, you know, and again Grant Williams,

1511
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:02,640
we'd view this very differently. I think if he hadn't

1512
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:05,000
gotten hurt, which like, how do you how do you

1513
01:11:05,079 --> 01:11:07,640
factor that in? So I'll go to be optional B plus.

1514
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,039
Speaker 1: But I think for me, and I wrote this in

1515
01:11:10,119 --> 01:11:12,560
the write up for them, is that I was and

1516
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:15,640
I still am, just encouraged by Okay, like you want

1517
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:17,720
to see them get better at some point, but like

1518
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:20,279
they're not actively trying to be in the sub middle

1519
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:22,760
right now, and this is this was another signal of

1520
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:25,319
that for me. Ye. Next up is another Dallas trade.

1521
01:11:26,079 --> 01:11:28,720
So this is it was not technically a three team one,

1522
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:31,479
but I'm just gonna list the three team permutations here.

1523
01:11:32,199 --> 01:11:36,079
Logistics excuse me, Mavericks received Daniel Gafford. The Thunder received

1524
01:11:36,079 --> 01:11:38,840
a twenty twenty eight first round swap that will be

1525
01:11:39,159 --> 01:11:42,600
the right to swop with Dallas. The Wizards received Rashaun

1526
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:45,640
Holmes and a twenty twenty four first round pick that

1527
01:11:46,159 --> 01:11:48,119
is not It came via the Thunder and ended up

1528
01:11:48,159 --> 01:11:51,840
being number twenty six Dylan Brooks, who is now grant

1529
01:11:52,319 --> 01:11:52,920
on the Thunder.

1530
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 2: Well, and we should say, somewhere in all this, Washington

1531
01:12:00,199 --> 01:12:04,119
gets a pick that becomes Kishon George.

1532
01:12:05,119 --> 01:12:06,560
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I must have left that out. I' have

1533
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:09,479
to fix that in post on the screen. So wasn't

1534
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:10,880
that what they used with Dylan Jones?

1535
01:12:11,239 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 2: I think that's all the Oh, there's some machinations that

1536
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:16,720
end up sending the twenty six pick Jones back to

1537
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:20,840
OKAC with the pick that they trade. Anyway, you I

1538
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:24,000
think Kishon George is part of the Wizard's return here.

1539
01:12:24,039 --> 01:12:25,760
I don't know how much that's going to matter in

1540
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:28,239
our assessment. I think that's right. This was like we've

1541
01:12:28,279 --> 01:12:30,920
already bunched in two trades that sort of aren't really

1542
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:31,359
the same.

1543
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:36,119
Speaker 1: What they did is they traded this pick, the Dylan

1544
01:12:36,199 --> 01:12:40,039
Jones pick, with a twenty twenty four second that became

1545
01:12:40,159 --> 01:12:43,000
Melvin and Jinsa and that was number fifty one. So

1546
01:12:43,039 --> 01:12:47,640
they traded number twenty six and number fifty one for

1547
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:50,560
Kishon George. But that was not part of this trade directly,

1548
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:51,680
but that is the fallout from it.

1549
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 2: Got it, got it okay, So just something to consider

1550
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:55,880
maybe as a fringe thing, but not part of the deal.

1551
01:12:58,079 --> 01:13:01,279
Daniel Gafford a little like PJ. Walkington light like actually

1552
01:13:01,359 --> 01:13:04,880
did matter and it pushed to the finals. It started

1553
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:06,800
right because it wasn't lively coming off the bench a

1554
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:08,920
fair amount and basically split time with him.

1555
01:13:09,159 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of like that they had like that co

1556
01:13:11,199 --> 01:13:13,119
opt at center, but like the minutes were like dead

1557
01:13:13,159 --> 01:13:14,920
even for so long and it.

1558
01:13:15,079 --> 01:13:17,039
Speaker 2: Didn't wasn't it last year where Gafford like set the

1559
01:13:17,119 --> 01:13:20,880
record for most consecutive makes without a miss something like

1560
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:26,399
all he does is just finished dunks. Basically the thunderside

1561
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:28,119
of it's easy, let's just go with the MAVs here,

1562
01:13:28,399 --> 01:13:34,199
I mean so essentially, Actually, the side of the trade

1563
01:13:34,239 --> 01:13:37,399
that I'm most uneasy about is the is the precursor

1564
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:40,319
move with the thunder where they're giving up the twenty

1565
01:13:40,399 --> 01:13:43,319
four or the twenty eight swap for the twenty four

1566
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:46,199
first I think Gafford is hugely helpful. We probably need

1567
01:13:46,279 --> 01:13:49,199
to be above a C for the MAVs because of that,

1568
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:53,039
maybe considerably. But I'm worried about that twenty eight swap,

1569
01:13:53,159 --> 01:13:56,039
like that might be the thunder might really cash in there.

1570
01:13:57,119 --> 01:13:59,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I gave the Mavericks a B minus the

1571
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:01,279
first time around, and part of the logic was Derek

1572
01:14:01,359 --> 01:14:03,520
Lively was injured, and it was also kind of clear

1573
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:04,920
at that moment, like, well, how many minutes do you

1574
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:07,079
want him to play? And their backup center ranks were thin.

1575
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:10,239
He helped spur the finals run, and I think that

1576
01:14:10,319 --> 01:14:13,000
you don't need even if he wasn't ultra important in

1577
01:14:13,159 --> 01:14:17,079
the most significant moments perhaps, but you also got off

1578
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:20,359
of the Rashawn Holmes money as well as part of

1579
01:14:20,399 --> 01:14:23,319
this deal. I think I'd probably stick because I'm trying

1580
01:14:23,319 --> 01:14:24,920
to factor in the long term of it all, where

1581
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:28,000
I don't know what Daniel Gafford means moving forward, so

1582
01:14:28,119 --> 01:14:30,920
like to give up okay, like you like I could

1583
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:33,199
see them trading him at this deadline too, where you're

1584
01:14:33,239 --> 01:14:35,039
kind of looking at the financial commitments that have come

1585
01:14:35,119 --> 01:14:38,000
down the pipeline with Derek Lively eventually needs to be paid.

1586
01:14:38,199 --> 01:14:42,520
Kyrie Irving's probably gonna opt out this summer, So I

1587
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:44,319
think I'm gonna stick with a B minus.

1588
01:14:46,039 --> 01:14:49,800
Speaker 2: I think I'll go BE. It's just I don't know

1589
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:53,439
how it's so hard to overstate, like if you matter

1590
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:55,680
in a run to the finals, Like, isn't that the point?

1591
01:14:56,079 --> 01:14:58,800
You know? So I think I'll just go a flat

1592
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:00,399
B not too far off from where you are for

1593
01:15:00,479 --> 01:15:02,279
the for the map side. What about the let's just

1594
01:15:02,319 --> 01:15:05,439
go down the list the thunder and A plus right, Like,

1595
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:06,239
so they're.

1596
01:15:06,039 --> 01:15:09,520
Speaker 1: Trading this one's interesting because they're trading number twenty six

1597
01:15:10,279 --> 01:15:13,399
for the right to swap with Dallas in twenty twenty eight.

1598
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:16,560
That's intriguing when we're looking that far out. But this

1599
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:19,239
could also just be the difference of like, oh, okase

1600
01:15:19,279 --> 01:15:22,119
he's drafting twenty seven and Dallas is drafting twenty five

1601
01:15:22,159 --> 01:15:25,479
and they're swopping picks. Would you still if that's knowing

1602
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:27,239
that outcome is on the table. I think I'd probably

1603
01:15:27,239 --> 01:15:31,000
still go with an all.

1604
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:32,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like, well, there's no downside. There's by definition,

1605
01:15:32,319 --> 01:15:34,680
there's no downside, especially since you end up just getting

1606
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:37,359
the guy he would have picked anyway. So it's like

1607
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:40,239
you just gotta free swap. Ultimately, I don't I don't

1608
01:15:40,279 --> 01:15:42,640
know how else to frame it so well.

1609
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:44,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it did cost them stuff to get Dylan

1610
01:15:44,800 --> 01:15:47,479
Jones in the first place, like back in like so

1611
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:49,880
they had to reacquire that pick. What did they end

1612
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:53,119
up sending to New York for him? Uh, they traded

1613
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:55,680
a twenty. No, they only gave up seconds to get him,

1614
01:15:56,399 --> 01:15:58,439
so they gave up seconds to get him back. So yeah,

1615
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,079
I think this is an A. Then there's some there's

1616
01:16:01,119 --> 01:16:03,399
no downside when you have that many first. And also

1617
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:05,720
even if they didn't have that many first, they're also

1618
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:09,279
a team that given the complexion of their roster right now,

1619
01:16:09,399 --> 01:16:12,319
like there's not there's a finite number of slots available,

1620
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:14,720
and so you need to start like getting written. Now,

1621
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:17,359
this is weird because they ended up reacquiring this imminent

1622
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:20,359
first round guy. But uh, yeah, I'll go A for them.

1623
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:25,239
What about the Wizards, It's it's basically Keishawn George and

1624
01:16:25,359 --> 01:16:28,159
Rashawn Holmes through their lens for Daniel Gafford.

1625
01:16:30,319 --> 01:16:32,680
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like a whole lot of nothing

1626
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:38,439
because Holmes is just a basically dead money Kishawn George

1627
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:42,279
has had like a handful of moments, and maybe that's

1628
01:16:42,399 --> 01:16:44,640
what we should be focused on. Is like just giving

1629
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:47,319
up a veteran center that you weren't gonna, you know,

1630
01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:49,600
really use for much of anything, and you're rebuild and

1631
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:52,920
getting a shot at someone who has shown like he's

1632
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:55,159
been grossly inefficient. But like, I think we both kind

1633
01:16:55,159 --> 01:16:57,279
of like Kishon George a little bit. Oh, I love him.

1634
01:16:57,520 --> 01:16:59,239
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna be really good.

1635
01:16:59,319 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 2: I think he plays really hard. I just the ball's

1636
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,039
got to go in, and outside of like two or

1637
01:17:03,079 --> 01:17:05,239
three games where he's made a ton, it just hasn't.

1638
01:17:05,439 --> 01:17:08,920
But yeah, I think I think I probably go I

1639
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:10,760
can't go in to the A range. I don't think.

1640
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:14,800
Although again another situation where like the Wizard's process was

1641
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:17,199
right here kind of like yeah, just you should you

1642
01:17:17,239 --> 01:17:19,520
should just swap one center for another to get a

1643
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:21,720
crack at a rookie. So I'll go B plus here

1644
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:22,920
for Washington.

1645
01:17:23,399 --> 01:17:26,359
Speaker 1: I will go with a B And a lot of

1646
01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:29,359
it is just like kind of just it reinforced about

1647
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:32,079
their direction and knowing that they then end up drafting

1648
01:17:32,079 --> 01:17:35,199
alex are and just signing getting Yonas fount Junas for

1649
01:17:35,279 --> 01:17:36,880
nothing on a contract that they could move and get

1650
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:39,039
second round picks for Bleak. Part of it too, there

1651
01:17:39,039 --> 01:17:41,960
were Shron Holmes thing not ideal. So you wonder, could

1652
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:44,560
you've gotten more than I mean more than a first

1653
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:47,239
bottom five first round pick to take on one additional

1654
01:17:47,319 --> 01:17:50,039
year for Shawn Holmes. That's that's about right. Yeah, yeah,

1655
01:17:50,159 --> 01:17:52,000
Well they gave up a usable player I'll stick with.

1656
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:54,680
I'll go be what's the next trade we got here? Grant,

1657
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:55,680
we're approaching the end.

1658
01:17:56,960 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 2: Okay, this is a we kind of referenced it a

1659
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:02,680
little bit. The Toronto Raptors receive Ochai Agbaji and Kelly

1660
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:06,239
Olynik from the Utah Jazz four. Keller Lewis Junior Otto

1661
01:18:06,319 --> 01:18:08,520
Porter Junior shout out out reporter. I have not thought

1662
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:10,520
about him in a while, and a twenty twenty four

1663
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:14,039
first rounder, which was number twenty nine. Isaiah Collier is

1664
01:18:14,399 --> 01:18:16,159
the player that Utah ended up with. There.

1665
01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:21,159
Speaker 1: I don't know like this. I did not like this

1666
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:24,960
for the UH Toronto Raptors in the moment. I didn't

1667
01:18:25,039 --> 01:18:27,920
understand why they were giving up a first round pick

1668
01:18:28,399 --> 01:18:32,239
at all. In hindsight now though, with how ak Baji

1669
01:18:32,319 --> 01:18:35,079
has played for much of this season, Although I gave

1670
01:18:35,159 --> 01:18:37,319
the Raptors a B plus the first time around. I

1671
01:18:37,359 --> 01:18:39,760
must have really been on the Kellyolinic train here.

1672
01:18:40,359 --> 01:18:43,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think what I remember most from this is

1673
01:18:44,079 --> 01:18:47,279
the framing of well, Utah has given up on Agbaji

1674
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:50,399
and has decided that we'd rather just have a late

1675
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:53,359
first instead of him, to like reset the rookie scale clock.

1676
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:56,319
Like it was almost like saying, yeah, we don't think

1677
01:18:56,399 --> 01:18:59,000
Agbaji is as valuable as a number twenty nine pick,

1678
01:18:59,359 --> 01:19:02,560
which was wrong, Like Baji isn't gonna looks like the

1679
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:05,399
shooting has come around this year. He's was red hot

1680
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:06,960
to start the year. We talked about him as like

1681
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:11,000
a most improved guy, just as really good defender, not

1682
01:19:11,159 --> 01:19:14,000
quite big enough to put on like real threes, but

1683
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:18,079
close and can now make threes Like that's that's a

1684
01:19:18,159 --> 01:19:23,079
real rotation player. So Utah was like just miscalculated there.

1685
01:19:23,199 --> 01:19:27,920
I think, no matter what you think about Collier, so

1686
01:19:28,079 --> 01:19:31,720
that's gotta be so just for the Raptors, they got

1687
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:35,279
the best guy in the deal. Why is it not

1688
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:39,039
it's got to be like a minimum B plus for Toronto.

1689
01:19:39,119 --> 01:19:41,319
I think at this point I might.

1690
01:19:41,239 --> 01:19:43,560
Speaker 1: Stick with the people I don't know how to feel about,

1691
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:47,399
Like then giving Kelly Olynik the two year, twenty six

1692
01:19:47,439 --> 01:19:50,439
point three million dollar extension. But I guess just the

1693
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:52,800
idea of having that floor spacing big when he's healthy,

1694
01:19:53,920 --> 01:19:55,560
is this an a minus kits? Just give it out? Well,

1695
01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:58,560
Ohai Bashi's played, they gave up. You could say the

1696
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:02,079
number twenty nine pick for someone who still has another

1697
01:20:02,239 --> 01:20:04,680
year after this one left right on his rookie scale,

1698
01:20:05,319 --> 01:20:08,640
and like he might just be a good quality three

1699
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:10,439
and D guy where if you don't Viume as a starter,

1700
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:12,439
he's certainly someone who could fill minutes off the bench.

1701
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like you're not getting you're not getting someone

1702
01:20:16,119 --> 01:20:19,319
like that at twenty nine. Like that's just those guys,

1703
01:20:19,319 --> 01:20:21,039
I mean unless you just totally look into it, and

1704
01:20:21,119 --> 01:20:23,239
Collier does. Collier is not that type of player, first

1705
01:20:23,239 --> 01:20:23,479
of all.

1706
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:26,079
Speaker 1: But and there're just like you're looking at who was

1707
01:20:26,479 --> 01:20:28,399
let's just try and think about who, Like would they

1708
01:20:28,399 --> 01:20:33,279
have drafted oh so Egadaro or aj Mitchell, Like those

1709
01:20:33,359 --> 01:20:35,640
are the Jallen Wells would have been. That would have

1710
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:37,840
been fun, But like those are the names that you

1711
01:20:38,279 --> 01:20:42,840
missed out on. Really, which Ronnie James, I forget about him.

1712
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 2: I want to I'm looking up what Abaji had was

1713
01:20:46,039 --> 01:20:49,840
shooting pre trade last year. He's up to thirty three

1714
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:52,800
percent with Utah in fifty one games from deep last year,

1715
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:55,079
which is I mean he used to thirty five percent

1716
01:20:55,159 --> 01:21:00,600
as a rookie. So yeah, I mean, I'm trying to

1717
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:03,000
like absolve Utah of some of this by saying that

1718
01:21:03,039 --> 01:21:06,199
they couldn't have known that the jump was coming for Agbaji,

1719
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:09,039
but they just gave up too early. So I I

1720
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:13,239
think B plus because Toronto got a legit rotation guy.

1721
01:21:13,359 --> 01:21:15,640
We think for honestly, they got.

1722
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:19,119
Speaker 1: Two legit rotation players for yeah, for the number twenty

1723
01:21:19,239 --> 01:21:20,960
nine pick is what I think what happened.

1724
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:25,159
Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, well olynic Is, I don't know if Olynus

1725
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:27,640
maybe that is an A minus then because they did

1726
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:31,039
really get Yeah, let's go a minus, okay, and then

1727
01:21:31,279 --> 01:21:35,479
Utah just kind of it's I mean, if Colle in

1728
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:38,680
real time a D minus C minus.

1729
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:40,560
Speaker 1: It might be a D minus now, I mean, I mean,

1730
01:21:41,039 --> 01:21:44,399
Colie's so young, but he's and he's shown what what

1731
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:46,520
have we been saying he's had. He's had some moments,

1732
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:49,039
not so much during the regular season but before, like

1733
01:21:49,239 --> 01:21:50,680
in preseason and summer league.

1734
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:54,039
Speaker 2: Uh and and you know me, I'm always a sucker

1735
01:21:54,119 --> 01:21:56,920
for the guy that was like a really high, highly

1736
01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:59,640
ranked recruit like in his class that slipped in.

1737
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:04,199
Speaker 1: Call Like I just the logic here of you don't

1738
01:22:04,279 --> 01:22:06,880
have wings on the roster, so let's let's give up

1739
01:22:06,920 --> 01:22:09,479
on one of the only wings that you have to

1740
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:14,840
get another like player that doesn't profile as a building

1741
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:17,199
block type. I just don't if if you told me,

1742
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:21,119
like Isaiah Collier was, what is he like if he

1743
01:22:21,239 --> 01:22:24,000
was six foot eight or something, you add the type

1744
01:22:24,039 --> 01:22:27,520
of on ball skills that we've seen. Okay, sure, but

1745
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:28,840
he's not. He's six three.

1746
01:22:29,119 --> 01:22:31,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're drafting a guy that, if you were trying

1747
01:22:31,239 --> 01:22:34,760
to win, would be behind George Sexton and Clarkson. And

1748
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:37,960
you're drafting like a fourth guard that can't really do

1749
01:22:38,079 --> 01:22:40,720
anything off the ball at all. And also, like Collier,

1750
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:43,840
the numbers are fucking terrible, Like he cannot shoot at all.

1751
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:45,960
It's it's like he's in the teens from three. So

1752
01:22:46,159 --> 01:22:50,199
like it's it's got Yeah, I mean, it can't be

1753
01:22:50,279 --> 01:22:52,640
higher than a D for Utah, maybe we just go

1754
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:54,119
D minus A minus.

1755
01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:56,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, D minus just leaving open the door like a

1756
01:22:56,920 --> 01:22:59,159
Maybe Collier figures it out at some point, and like

1757
01:22:59,239 --> 01:23:00,840
they took a high wing, which is what you want

1758
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:03,399
teams in their position to do, but when you're so

1759
01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:05,880
wing poor, that's not what you necessarily want them to do.

1760
01:23:06,279 --> 01:23:09,960
The next trade is there's a big one. Everyone buckle up,

1761
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:14,479
Dennis Shrewder the Nets. So the Nets received Dennis Shrewder,

1762
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:17,119
Thaddeus Young and a trade exception which they used most

1763
01:23:17,119 --> 01:23:20,239
of it on Billiam mcdonovich. And then the Raptors received

1764
01:23:20,359 --> 01:23:22,680
Spencer Dinwitty, who they promptly got rid of.

1765
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:25,199
Speaker 2: H this is for?

1766
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:27,600
Speaker 1: Isn't this kind of fascinating for the Nets now though?

1767
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:30,199
Just looking at how good Shrewder was this year and

1768
01:23:30,239 --> 01:23:32,479
then what they were able to flip him for. I

1769
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,239
gave them a bee in real time and my you know,

1770
01:23:35,399 --> 01:23:39,479
my first line is on it. I'm sure that's what

1771
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:41,359
I feel like, That's how I feel right now.

1772
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:47,279
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, so how many it was? So the Nets

1773
01:23:47,319 --> 01:23:51,720
turn Shrewder, who might have fucked up their tank a

1774
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:55,359
little bit, although they're trying now into Melton. And how

1775
01:23:55,399 --> 01:23:57,079
many seconds did they get? Was it three?

1776
01:23:57,560 --> 01:23:59,720
Speaker 1: Three? Yeah? I mean they sent out one kind of

1777
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:01,640
two though, right? Or am I misremembering?

1778
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 2: I can't I can't. I couldn't remember off. I thought

1779
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:06,159
it was they got three. Maybe they did send one back.

1780
01:24:06,199 --> 01:24:10,399
That does kind of sound right, So yeah, I don't know.

1781
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:12,199
I guess it depends on like how much you think

1782
01:24:12,239 --> 01:24:14,199
he because he played the best he's ever played in

1783
01:24:14,279 --> 01:24:16,680
his career the first half of the season or first third,

1784
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:21,319
I guess. But and that was like counterproductive, you would

1785
01:24:21,399 --> 01:24:23,439
argue to what Brooklyn was going for. Do we factor

1786
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:25,319
that into the grade that he was better than they

1787
01:24:25,359 --> 01:24:28,159
thought he might be? Like, was actually too good this year?

1788
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:31,880
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if so, you want to ding them

1789
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:33,880
because he might have not given them a head start

1790
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:34,439
off their tank.

1791
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:36,640
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're just talking pure bottom line, like

1792
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:39,840
he actually was counterproductive to what they were trying to

1793
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:42,600
do this season. But like, can you penalize a team

1794
01:24:42,640 --> 01:24:44,560
for getting a guy who turned out to be way

1795
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:46,279
better than you thought? That feels wrong?

1796
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:48,079
Speaker 1: Well, you could also look at it. So they did

1797
01:24:48,119 --> 01:24:50,279
give up a twenty twenty five second in the Warrior traits,

1798
01:24:50,279 --> 01:24:52,079
So they turned Spencer didn when he into two second

1799
01:24:52,159 --> 01:24:52,640
round picks.

1800
01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:57,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty good, isn't it.

1801
01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:01,640
Speaker 1: Like so you could also say, but if Dennis Shruder

1802
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:03,359
wasn't supposed to be as good as he wasn't. What

1803
01:25:03,399 --> 01:25:05,279
would they have gotten for him if they traded him

1804
01:25:05,279 --> 01:25:06,039
over the off season.

1805
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:10,600
Speaker 2: Hmm, well probably not three I guess. Well, you know

1806
01:25:11,279 --> 01:25:13,680
you wouldn't have got two seconds, right, And.

1807
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:15,079
Speaker 1: So even if you didn't think he was gonna be

1808
01:25:15,119 --> 01:25:17,079
as good as expect, you still made that. They clearly

1809
01:25:17,119 --> 01:25:18,399
didn't know he was gonna be that good, but you

1810
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:20,079
made the call to move him early enough to where

1811
01:25:20,079 --> 01:25:22,640
you have plenty of time to make up ground. I

1812
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:24,800
think this is probably a b plush just because look

1813
01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:27,399
at how they were a top ten half court offense

1814
01:25:27,439 --> 01:25:28,680
with him on the floor this year.

1815
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:33,760
Speaker 2: That's insane, that's amazing. So okay, but the Dinwitty side,

1816
01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:35,600
I was like, I don't remember him on the Raptors.

1817
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:38,640
That's because he never They bought him out and he

1818
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:40,840
ended up with the Lakers, right, isn't that what happened?

1819
01:25:41,199 --> 01:25:42,960
Speaker 1: Yeah? And that didn't That didn't go so well either.

1820
01:25:43,199 --> 01:25:45,760
So I'm gonna go B plus for the Nets. By

1821
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:46,720
the way, would you end up with.

1822
01:25:48,359 --> 01:25:52,720
Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, that's pretty good. Since Dinwitty wasn't wasn't giving

1823
01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:53,239
him anything.

1824
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:55,800
Speaker 1: I don't know how to feel about this. For the

1825
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:59,680
Raptors just because it was a housekeeping move. So I

1826
01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:03,399
think that's fine. But then Dennis Ruder ends up being

1827
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:06,119
great in Brooklyn. He never would have had that type

1828
01:26:06,119 --> 01:26:09,319
of agency in Toronto though, with RJ. Barrett and Emmanuel

1829
01:26:09,439 --> 01:26:14,479
Quickly and Scottie Barnes there. I in real so when

1830
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:16,479
he made the trade, I gave him a B plus.

1831
01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:22,920
So like I just I don't know they did offload?

1832
01:26:23,319 --> 01:26:24,840
What did they save as part of this deal?

1833
01:26:25,039 --> 01:26:25,520
Speaker 2: Oh? You know what?

1834
01:26:26,880 --> 01:26:28,800
Speaker 1: I forgot that he's still on the books, so like

1835
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:30,680
Spencer did when he was not so getting rid of

1836
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:33,279
that final year of his contract. Did I guess give

1837
01:26:33,279 --> 01:26:35,560
them flexibility for the summer that they elected to use

1838
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:37,479
on picking up Bruce Brast's team options.

1839
01:26:38,399 --> 01:26:40,800
Speaker 2: That's right. I was just looking up like shrewder was

1840
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:45,960
okay for Toronto thirty no played fifty one games, thirteen points,

1841
01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:48,319
six assists, thirty five percent from three just like a

1842
01:26:49,079 --> 01:26:52,159
incredibly standard Dennis Shruder half season.

1843
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:54,720
Speaker 1: Yeah that's not. This isn't a B plus trade anymore,

1844
01:26:57,079 --> 01:26:58,600
even it was in real time? Am I not?

1845
01:26:58,680 --> 01:27:00,800
Speaker 2: I feel like the grades should be your first sentence

1846
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:03,239
from the write up. It was like, yeah, sure, sure,

1847
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:06,359
I just I don't know. Okay, let's let's get it

1848
01:27:06,399 --> 01:27:08,560
and move on. So the nets we said B plus,

1849
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:09,560
but you want to move it down?

1850
01:27:10,960 --> 01:27:12,399
Speaker 1: No, No, I said B plus or the nets. I'm

1851
01:27:12,399 --> 01:27:14,119
saying we should move the raptors grade down from A

1852
01:27:14,199 --> 01:27:14,840
B plus.

1853
01:27:14,720 --> 01:27:17,399
Speaker 2: Right, okay, nets B plus, let's give the raptors like A.

1854
01:27:18,079 --> 01:27:18,399
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1855
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:20,880
Speaker 2: I was gonna throw it off as they see because

1856
01:27:21,000 --> 01:27:22,560
I don't have a strong feeling either way.

1857
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:27,520
Speaker 1: The idea behind the trade was flexibility and get that.

1858
01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:28,920
Did they use that flexibility on?

1859
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:31,600
Speaker 2: You? Said Bruce Brown picking up the option? Right?

1860
01:27:32,119 --> 01:27:33,359
Speaker 1: Right? So what is that like?

1861
01:27:34,079 --> 01:27:36,239
Speaker 2: TBD? We don't know what they're gonna get for Bruce Brown,

1862
01:27:36,319 --> 01:27:37,159
he's still on the team.

1863
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:42,039
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go I'm gonna go with a D plus

1864
01:27:42,119 --> 01:27:44,159
here dead a shruder ended up playing, so well, maybe

1865
01:27:44,199 --> 01:27:47,520
a C minus. That's this trade on inspires Mate.

1866
01:27:47,399 --> 01:27:48,840
Speaker 2: I'll go C minus. It has to be in the

1867
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:51,560
sea range because I care so little about it.

1868
01:27:52,039 --> 01:27:54,520
Speaker 1: Grant, that was an interesting exercise. We obviously didn't go

1869
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:57,279
through everything like the Simoni Fontacio delon Detroit. We just

1870
01:27:57,319 --> 01:27:58,560
went through what we thought were some of the more

1871
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:01,119
notable trades that how are you feeling.

1872
01:28:02,359 --> 01:28:04,359
Speaker 2: I feel like Dallas did a good job. Dan. I

1873
01:28:04,399 --> 01:28:06,039
feel like they made the finals because they pulled off

1874
01:28:06,079 --> 01:28:07,800
some good trades. That's my analysis.

1875
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 1: Hey, even in a trade deadline that doesn't look like

1876
01:28:11,359 --> 01:28:15,119
it's consequential, there are always going to be consequences.

1877
01:28:15,319 --> 01:28:18,479
Speaker 2: You might create a finals team with two like seemingly

1878
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:20,159
inconsequential deals.

1879
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:23,399
Speaker 1: So yeah, here's how you have any the als or

1880
01:28:23,439 --> 01:28:25,439
would you like would you take us out of here?

1881
01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:28,960
Speaker 2: Sure thing? Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. If you

1882
01:28:29,039 --> 01:28:31,439
did watch this on YouTube, please subscribe. Make sure make

1883
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:34,039
sure you're making some comments in there. You can have

1884
01:28:34,079 --> 01:28:36,119
a conversation about what we got wrong and right on

1885
01:28:36,199 --> 01:28:39,399
our regrades. Let us know what you think where. If

1886
01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:42,800
you're just listening to this, thanks also for that rate review,

1887
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:46,000
subscribe five stars. Do the whole deal, help us grow

1888
01:28:46,079 --> 01:28:49,359
the podcast. Really appreciate it, Tell your friends, tell your enemies,

1889
01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:52,560
and as usual, we close with shouts to Frank Milakina

1890
01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:53,960
and apologies to Jared Allen