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Speaker 2: the show today, the second and final review. That's right,
Speaker 2: only two topics this week is going to be a
Speaker 2: crossover with fellow midnight viewing hosts Chris Dashue and Mike
Speaker 2: White's respective podcast. That's right, it's a midnight viewing culture
Speaker 2: cast Projection Booth three way, as we wade into the
Speaker 2: Sony Marvel universe, the smooth the last, so they claim
Speaker 2: of the Sony Verse, Goodbye, Madam Webb, farewell many Spider Man,
Speaker 2: Adieu Dane de Cook. So that's going to be coming
Speaker 2: up next. And we like to theme around these here parts.
Speaker 2: So we've got Craven the Hunter. What pairs well with
Speaker 2: a villain portrayed inexplicably as a hero. All of a sudden,
Speaker 2: the natural choices don't Breathe Part two, But that motherfucker
Speaker 2: was a rapist, and I didn't bother to watch that
Speaker 2: sequel where the rapist is now the hero. Listen, I'm
Speaker 2: a fucking fool for heroes and villains switching allegiance during
Speaker 2: the course of a narrative or film to film. But
Speaker 2: as it turns out the nature of the villain, he
Speaker 2: matters a turkey baster to you, Stephen Lang. So we're
Speaker 2: gonna keep it. In the comic book world, here's a
Speaker 2: villain who's a hero simultaneously. This one's a Marvel fellow
Speaker 2: whom I've loved since the nineteen seventies. That's when he
Speaker 2: was born in Marvel Spotlight number five. He's had lots
Speaker 2: of iterations. It's a mental not a person. You nineties
Speaker 2: kids know him as Danny Ketch if you caught him
Speaker 2: in the teens. Robbie Reyes took over that flaming skull
Speaker 2: and he drives a car.
Speaker 1: How a dony like that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a bit iffy on it too, but I
Speaker 2: like Robbie. He's the spirit of vengeance, the fallen Angel. Really,
Speaker 2: his name is Zarathos, at least it was. I haven't
Speaker 2: read it in a while. I love him best when
Speaker 2: he took over Johnny Blaze and became ghost Rider.
Speaker 1: Johnny Blaze.
Speaker 2: No one has ever attempted such a distance before.
Speaker 1: Three hundred feet from field, go to field, gull. What's
Speaker 1: going through your mind right now? You look really good?
Speaker 3: Are gonna look it?
Speaker 4: Luck? Don't cover JB. You got an angel looking after you.
Speaker 5: Maybe it's something else.
Speaker 3: All you have to do is size.
Speaker 5: Forget about family, forget about friends, forget about.
Speaker 3: You will be the writer for as long as you live.
Speaker 3: I'm not doing it if you have no choice.
Speaker 5: The story goes that he'll be normal during the day,
Speaker 5: but at night, in the presence of evil, the writer
Speaker 5: takes over.
Speaker 3: You deserve a second chance.
Speaker 5: Black Hearts coming to create hell on Earth, and you
Speaker 5: have the power he needs all day away from anybody
Speaker 5: he can use against him.
Speaker 3: Rock Sam, did you care about me when you have
Speaker 3: to leave?
Speaker 4: Now? I'm not going on.
Speaker 5: Any man who sells his soul for love has the
Speaker 5: power to change the world. I could smell your fear, so.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna take this curse and use it against you.
Speaker 5: You have this rad Shopper goes off flames and stuff.
Speaker 1: His face was a skull and it was on fire,
Speaker 1: on fire.
Speaker 5: Like.
Speaker 3: Looking for someone. I'm the only one welcome both worlds.
Speaker 1: Ghost All right, I'm good.
Speaker 3: I feel like my skull's on fire, but I'm good.
Speaker 1: What the fuck is this?
Speaker 2: I won't say that that was the only thing not
Speaker 2: going through my head during the entirety of this film,
Speaker 2: but it ain't far off. And I wanted to love
Speaker 2: this movie.
Speaker 1: Ghost Rider with.
Speaker 2: Nicholas Cage, Peter Fonda, Donald log West Bentley, and Eva
Speaker 2: Mendez before Gossling spirited her away to whatever magic fairyland
Speaker 2: he was hatched in. All of these things were positive,
Speaker 2: So sincerely, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you.
Speaker 2: Dimension Films released Blade back in ninety six, and, feeling
Speaker 2: all high on that blood sucking success, they got the
Speaker 2: rights to ghost Rider, and because David Goyer wrote Blade,
Speaker 2: he wrote the first draft of ghost Rider. I've read it.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying I prefer the movie we got, but
Speaker 2: I'm glad they didn't make Goyer's draft, although they kind
Speaker 2: of did when they made the sequel. Goyer's script is
Speaker 2: basically The Crow. He took the exact framework of The
Speaker 2: Crow and bladed it up and added a Motorcycle. At
Speaker 2: that point it was Blade director Stephen Norrington who was attached.
Speaker 2: Goyer would be replaced by Armageddons Crime Shane Salerno, at
Speaker 2: which point Johnny Demp was going to be Johnny Blaze.
Speaker 2: Then I mentioned got cold feet, probably because of those
Speaker 2: terrible scripts, at which point Columbia, high off their own
Speaker 2: recent triumphs with Spider Man, figured they could recreate the
Speaker 2: magic of those films, and who better to do it
Speaker 2: than the director of Grumpy Old Man. To be fair,
Speaker 2: he did also direct Grumpier Old Man and Daredevil, which
Speaker 2: has its proponents. I think that movie is fun in
Speaker 2: a few scenes and has a fucking killer performance by
Speaker 2: Colin Farrellan's Bullseye, but it is mostly unmemorable. Mark Stephen
Speaker 2: Johnson is given ghost Rider and Carte Blanche. Really now,
Speaker 2: there are some definite improvements in his script to the
Speaker 2: previous drafts. For instance, Johnny Blaze rides at the Carnival.
Speaker 2: Goyer had him as a low level thief, which is gross.
Speaker 2: But whereas he put the history of the Blaze family
Speaker 2: and the Quenton Carnival and Mephisto on screen as it
Speaker 2: was in the comic Hell. He even pulled in Carter Slade,
Speaker 2: who was the Ghostwriter before Ghostwrider, but he stumbles when
Speaker 2: it comes to the Rider himself. Like I said, Ghostwrider
Speaker 2: has had a lot of iterations over the years, Johnson
Speaker 2: fell in love with the bounty hunting aspect of him,
Speaker 2: particularly with its connection to.
Speaker 1: The Old West.
Speaker 2: Thus Carter Slade, so he wants to have an otherworldly
Speaker 2: Western with motorcycles, which I'm totally down with. And given
Speaker 2: Johnson's association with Daredevil, who is the most catholic superhero ever,
Speaker 2: I figured he'd lean into what sets Ghostwriter apart from
Speaker 2: probably all superheroes. For all the flaming chains and riding
Speaker 2: up buildings, He's a character whose real powers are based
Speaker 2: on sin. His most famous move is the Penance Stare,
Speaker 2: where he makes a sinner experience all the pain they've
Speaker 2: caused over the course of their lives. He can cleanse
Speaker 2: a soul, he can eat a soul, he can eat sin,
Speaker 2: making him a sin eater. What's Up Jasmine Midnight Viewings
Speaker 2: Welsh Correspondent. Some of those powers are featured passingly. Johnson
Speaker 2: isn't interested in the battle for souls and the manipulation
Speaker 2: of the human race. And who gets to decide who's
Speaker 2: worthy of paradise. He wants cg water people fighting flaming
Speaker 2: skullman And I'll say it again, it's a real drag.
Speaker 2: I'd even be willing to put aside the mixing and
Speaker 2: matching of the supernatural world and faiths, where we've got
Speaker 2: traditional biblical fallen angels and demons mixing with villains based
Speaker 2: on the water fire earth elements. It's not a salad
Speaker 2: bar Johnson. Because of this budget, with these characters in
Speaker 2: this cast, it could have been magnificent. It should have
Speaker 2: been magnificent. Wes Bentley is a beautiful and he's a
Speaker 2: totally worthy embodiment of frequent Ghostwriter antagonist Blackheart. Eva Mendez
Speaker 2: does what she can with Roxanne. Everybody's doing a great job,
Speaker 2: well not quite everyone. Is there anyone who can say
Speaker 2: no to Nicholas Cage? I mean creatively? Is everyone so
Speaker 2: jazz to be working with him that they just go
Speaker 2: along with whatever kooky shit he comes up with. We've
Speaker 2: talked about him here when we've looked at that film
Speaker 2: Plastic Surgery Victim Buffalo Bill was that the title the
Speaker 2: Faint Echo of the Lambs. That's a good one, you're
Speaker 2: getting a treat. I love Nick Cage.
Speaker 1: I really do. He's terrible here.
Speaker 2: We know he loves comics. We know he can do
Speaker 2: the gig. I was looking forward to that Superman movie.
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to the Noirs Spider Man series. But
Speaker 2: he ain't Johnny Blaze. You know how I know, because
Speaker 2: if he was, he would have put aside his action
Speaker 2: movie habit of giving his character an absurd hobby or fixation.
Speaker 2: It was the Beatles in the Rock, which had absolutely
Speaker 2: no bearing on the film. Was there even a Beatles
Speaker 2: song featured? And here Johnny Blaze, who sold his soul
Speaker 2: to Mephisto and agreed to be his enforcer. Well, he
Speaker 2: just loves jelly beans. Oh and if he can sip
Speaker 2: them from an oversized Martini glass, all the more whimsy,
Speaker 2: You old scamp. Johnny Blaze, who knows what brimstone smells
Speaker 2: like because it pours from the flames that engulf his
Speaker 2: disembodied skull, he loves them jelly beans.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: This is Nicholas Cage's idea of how Johnny Blaze is.
Speaker 1: On the wagon. He no longer im vibes.
Speaker 2: He just loves going through the motions with jellybeans. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he wouldn't want to get drunk. That might interfere with
Speaker 2: his nighttime transformation into a flaming motorcycle chain wielding demon
Speaker 2: that sees into the souls to determine whether or not
Speaker 2: you're worthy of punishment. Wouldn't want to get tipsy. No, no, no, jellybeans.
Speaker 2: The CG was not great, then it's laughable. Now here's
Speaker 2: a sign that it was filmed in Australia. Rebel Wilson
Speaker 2: is a bystander interviewed about Ghost Rider. The music is
Speaker 2: poor and I sensed that Johnson only took the job
Speaker 2: because he imagined the credits rolling and the nail on
Speaker 2: the head song choice of ghost Riders in the Sky
Speaker 2: playing only the lamest cover will do. There was a sequel.
Speaker 2: A lot of people consider it an improvement. They are wrong.
Speaker 2: It's a great effects reel. It's by Neveldeine Taylor, who
Speaker 2: did the Crank films, which are good, and Jonah Hex,
Speaker 2: which is garbage. Marvel got the rights back to Ghost Rider.
Speaker 2: So far, all we've gotten is Robbie reyis showing up
Speaker 2: on that terrible Agency of Shield show. So where the
Speaker 2: fuck is he now? Ghost Rider, I mean any of them. Sincerely.
Speaker 2: We want Blade, we want the Rider, we want Dracula
Speaker 2: and Mephisto. Don't make me do another completely ineffective changing
Speaker 2: no one's mind a podcast, because I'll do it. What's
Speaker 2: your point, You're not getting a pick this week.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but you're not. I'll tell you what we're
Speaker 1: going to the next segment and we'll make it a
Speaker 1: rip pick. Okay, you you chose Craven the Hunter.
Speaker 6: JA Welcome to the Projection booth. I'm your host, Mike White.
Speaker 6: Joining me, of course, is mister Chris Tashue.
Speaker 4: I prefer to be known as Craven Moorhead.
Speaker 6: Also on this episode is the one and only father Alone.
Speaker 1: My grandmother died and then I never saw her again.
Speaker 6: On this episode it's a very special crossover with the
Speaker 6: Culture Cast and Midnight Viewing. We were talking about Craven
Speaker 6: the Hunter. I am craving some Craven from twenty twenty four,
Speaker 6: directed by JC Chandor written by a whole bunch of people. Here,
Speaker 6: We've got Richard wenk and A and d art markham
Speaker 6: ampersand Matt Holloway, all taken swipe at this script. It
Speaker 6: is all about Craven, the titular Craven serge A craven
Speaker 6: Off aka Craven the Hunter, and his complex relationship with
Speaker 6: his ruthless father, Nikolai Cravenoff, who's played by the one
Speaker 6: and only.
Speaker 4: Russell Crowe Russian Crow.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Russian Crow, and uh yeah, just how he became
Speaker 6: Craven through magic and all kinds of stuff. We will
Speaker 6: be spoiling this film, so if you don't want anything ruin,
Speaker 6: please turn off the podcast and come back after you've
Speaker 6: gone to the theater, maybe rent to this on video,
Speaker 6: streamed it on wherever, and we will still be here. So, Chris,
Speaker 6: what did you think of Craven the Hunter?
Speaker 4: I am so disappointed that you guys made me watch
Speaker 4: this movie. This is one of them. This is one
Speaker 4: of the most unintelligible pieces of shit I have seen
Speaker 4: in a very long time. It was. Let me put
Speaker 4: it this way, if you've if you've kept up with
Speaker 4: the news and the information that's been coming out about
Speaker 4: the movie since kind of its release or leading up
Speaker 4: to its release, this is the last Spider versus Sony movie.
Speaker 4: That's it. There's nothing else. This is the last one,
Speaker 4: and good and good fucking riddance, because this movie is
Speaker 4: borderline unintelligible, if it's not just completely unintelligible. I don't
Speaker 4: understand why Aaron Taylor Johnson is in this movie other
Speaker 4: than if it was the Dakota Johnson of it all,
Speaker 4: where it's like I need money, I like money, give
Speaker 4: me money, and I'll play Craven, because I can't imagine
Speaker 4: he read this script and went, Wow, what a what
Speaker 4: a real piece of scenery scene and what's scene chewing?
Speaker 4: What scene stealing? I'm gonna be doing? Is Craven the Hunter?
Speaker 4: I was not surprised that it was quite terrible. However,
Speaker 4: I will say, on the scale of things, it's somehow
Speaker 4: still manages to be better than Madam Webb. That is
Speaker 4: damning it with the faintest of faint praise. But for me,
Speaker 4: this movie was at times laughably bad. I can't believe
Speaker 4: that the movie was two fucking hours long on top
Speaker 4: of everything else, as if we needed to be bombarded
Speaker 4: with two hours of this nonsense. But I I did
Speaker 4: not enjoy it. It was a slog and in my
Speaker 4: closing opening statements, if Aaron Taylor Johnson is in fact
Speaker 4: cast as James Bond, uh oh, That's all I'm gonna say,
Speaker 4: because I'm not looking forward to that if that is
Speaker 4: in fact going to end up being the case. So
Speaker 4: there's my early opening salvo. And as they say, manifesto
Speaker 4: about Craven the Hunter, what about you, Father Malone.
Speaker 1: I liked it.
Speaker 2: I thought it of the Sony spinoff movies, of the
Speaker 2: Sony movies that aren't directly Spider Man movies, I think
Speaker 2: it's the best of them. I enjoyed it more than
Speaker 2: any of the Venom movies three of those fuckers, certainly
Speaker 2: more than Madame Webb.
Speaker 1: What else did we have? They did one more right, Morbius,
Speaker 1: It's Mormon time.
Speaker 4: It's Morbon time.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 4: Morbius was way more fun than this movie, No way
Speaker 4: more Yes, Oh yes, this movie took itself. This movie
Speaker 4: took itself way too seriously.
Speaker 2: Right, I agree, And I appreciated that about it because
Speaker 2: Morbius didn't take it. Morbius took itself just as seriously.
Speaker 2: It's just that it was fucking terrible. And if any
Speaker 2: joy you got from that movie was making fun of it,
Speaker 2: this is a more complete story. Look, my problems with
Speaker 2: this movie are as a fan of Marvel comics, who
Speaker 2: remember Craven being one thing a villain, and a pretty
Speaker 2: good villain at that, to turning him directly into a
Speaker 2: fucking superhero, because the story is effectively the same.
Speaker 1: Here.
Speaker 2: We get Craven, we get the look they kind of
Speaker 2: recconned him in the early eighties J. M. Demitaeus when
Speaker 2: he took over Craven. He he wreckcoun a lot of
Speaker 2: the Russian heritage and stuff. We get Craven, we get
Speaker 2: his dad, we get his brother, who is the chameleon,
Speaker 2: who was the first first Spider Man villain. We get
Speaker 2: a lot of what's really right about Craven. But at
Speaker 2: the same time he's noble and doing all the right things.
Speaker 2: So the problem with these Sinister six type spinoff movies
Speaker 2: that they've been attempting is that they never give us
Speaker 2: the actual fucking villain as a character, but compared to
Speaker 2: all the venoms and the morbiuses and stuff, as a
Speaker 2: story of a family and this weird superhero kind of
Speaker 2: world that they're plucked into. I enjoyed it because I
Speaker 2: don't know what to tell you. I liked that they
Speaker 2: had Calypso in here, who's his love interest from the comics,
Speaker 2: and I actually think they did her character better than
Speaker 2: they did in the comics.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was great.
Speaker 2: I think I think this movie needed to come out
Speaker 2: six years ago and then there would have been some
Speaker 2: hope for the Sony universe. Then then it would have
Speaker 2: felt like they were building towards something. I think there's
Speaker 2: a lot of superfluous stuff in this movie. I don't
Speaker 2: think it's the best by any means. This is not
Speaker 2: a great movie, but comparatively speaking, had a good time.
Speaker 4: I will say, you've said it, and I've said it before,
Speaker 4: and I think Mike will probably echo it as well.
Speaker 4: The fact that these movies are coming out in twenty
Speaker 4: twenty four is wild to me. These movies feel like
Speaker 4: they should have been coming out in the mid tens,
Speaker 4: if not the late two thousands. Like this style of
Speaker 4: making superhero movies is not a thing anymore, and they
Speaker 4: now I hope they realize it, because they're not getting
Speaker 4: any further with any of this.
Speaker 1: Sony is like country music.
Speaker 2: It's only sort of ten years behind the times, Like
Speaker 2: country gets poppy eventually. Now country is getting a bit
Speaker 2: hip hoppy and it's always a little tenu. So Sony's
Speaker 2: just like oh, we figured out actually how to do
Speaker 2: a superhero movie too late.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've been hearing that this is doing so well
Speaker 6: that they might actually continue these Spider verse that they're
Speaker 6: trying to do over here. I would say this might
Speaker 6: be the best of the lot for me, and that
Speaker 6: includes those Spider Man movies, because I fucking hate it
Speaker 6: those things. Man, Oh God, could not stand those and
Speaker 6: I'm so glad that they're not coming out with any
Speaker 6: more of those. I don't care what happened to Peter
Speaker 6: Parker's parents. I don't care about the Sinister six.
Speaker 4: Oh you're talking about the Andrew Garfield stuff.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, because that's all part of this, right, This
Speaker 6: is all Sony, Like that was Sony's oh we're good,
Speaker 6: we gotta make a Spider Man movie or else we'll
Speaker 6: lose the right kind of thing.
Speaker 4: This is part of the MCU.
Speaker 6: Well, this is no, this is the Sony verse.
Speaker 1: It is this.
Speaker 2: It is the Sony verse, Mike. But I think but once,
Speaker 2: once the MCU got a hold of Spider Man, I
Speaker 2: think Sony was doing a wait and see kind of thing.
Speaker 2: By then, they had released Andrew Garfield, and I think
Speaker 2: they thought they were going to have a trading situation
Speaker 2: where they were going to get Tom harl holland every
Speaker 2: other movie instead of five movies in a row for Marvel.
Speaker 6: Right, yeah, which would be fine. It is just so
Speaker 6: strange to go about this through the villains rather than
Speaker 6: through the heroes and put together this whole collection of villains,
Speaker 6: because you're right, it's odd that Craven is a hero
Speaker 6: in this, and I don't know what's going to suddenly
Speaker 6: turn him into a villain other than his intense fear
Speaker 6: of spiders.
Speaker 4: I suppose, Yeah, that was spiders that looked like men.
Speaker 6: That could be.
Speaker 1: That could be.
Speaker 2: That's then next logical step of his prenatory fear that
Speaker 2: is somehow genetically passed down by his insane mother.
Speaker 6: Right, Yes, the fear that his mother had is the
Speaker 6: same fear that he has too, which okay, but yeah,
Speaker 6: I didn't mind this one at all. If anything, I
Speaker 6: was like, Okay, I can see myself watching this again,
Speaker 6: no problem. It's kind of like those first two Venom films,
Speaker 6: especially the first one. I wouldn't go back to Carnage,
Speaker 6: but the first Venom film I've watched quite a few times.
Speaker 6: I think this is heads and shoulders above anything that
Speaker 6: comes close to Madame Webb. I mean that was just
Speaker 6: the shit show. Horrible acting, horrible everything. Just the way
Speaker 6: that the whole story was put together was really bad.
Speaker 6: Still don't know why it needed to be a period
Speaker 6: piece other than that Madame Webb is super old in
Speaker 6: the comics and we needed to set this back in
Speaker 6: the three Peter Parker being born eighties kind of thing.
Speaker 6: I don't know, but yeah, I kind of enjoyed it.
Speaker 6: I was really glad to see Alessandro Nivola. I kept
Speaker 6: watching him through the whole movie, going is that Pollax Troy?
Speaker 6: That looks like Pollax Troy and just that low talking
Speaker 6: that he did as Alexi's whatever rhino. I was like, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 6: this is pretty cool. The Foreigner, I don't know. He
Speaker 6: was just more of an annoyance to me than anything.
Speaker 6: But was it no kay villain? And I was glad
Speaker 6: when he died. I applauded when he died.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they needed the foreigner.
Speaker 2: See what we're talking about here is Sony owning every
Speaker 2: thing that came out of the Spider Man books. Basically,
Speaker 2: if it originated there, they get to use it. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: there's only one decent hero to emerge from Spider Man,
Speaker 2: and that's fucking Spider Man. So they're left with these villains.
Speaker 2: And I think it's a good idea to give us
Speaker 2: these spinoff I want to see a Sinister six movie.
Speaker 2: And it's really easy to do that. You just make
Speaker 2: a villain worse than them. Bob's your uncle. But they
Speaker 2: have to be villains to begin with, or what's the
Speaker 2: fucking point of this? Because we're not gonna buy the
Speaker 2: turn when they have to finally turn against Spider Man,
Speaker 2: They're gonna have to concoct some bullshit like they're fucking
Speaker 2: mystically controlled or some nonsense. But I can't see this Craven,
Speaker 2: no matter how badly he fears whatever, going after Spider
Speaker 2: Man the way he does in the books.
Speaker 4: It reminded me a lot of the Scorpion King. When
Speaker 4: I watched that movie, I'm like, how is he the
Speaker 4: bad guy in the Mummy Return? It's like, what you know,
Speaker 4: When we were walking out of the movie, we saw
Speaker 4: the poster for the movie and it says heroes aren't born,
Speaker 4: they're made. Our villains aren't born, they're made. It's like, yes,
Speaker 4: Craven is a villain, but not in this movie, Craven
Speaker 4: is a villain, but not in this telling of the story.
Speaker 4: Craven is the character in the I think to your point,
Speaker 4: Father Malone, the worst sin of this movie is the
Speaker 4: fact that it does not understand the character of Craven
Speaker 4: at all. It has taken the character of Craven and
Speaker 4: done something to him that I think is Wolverine esque,
Speaker 4: is what it feels like, like, Oh, we don't have
Speaker 4: access to Wolverine, so we'll just kind of make a
Speaker 4: Wolverine movie without Wolverine. That's kind of what it reminded
Speaker 4: me of, like an R rated, well like an R
Speaker 4: rate like Logan essentially, but you know, if Logan was
Speaker 4: made by less capable people. Though I'm not sure I
Speaker 4: would put James Mangold in a camp of capable people
Speaker 4: given the amazing work he turned in with such classics
Speaker 4: like Dial of Destiny.
Speaker 1: Well, it's better than X Men Origin's Wolverine. Oh boy, yeah, that.
Speaker 4: Is the damningest of Fate praise.
Speaker 1: Well, it's still a better movie than that.
Speaker 4: I agree. I agree with you there.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would actually wouldn't mind seeing a sequel to
Speaker 6: this to see how Graven goes after his brother and
Speaker 6: I was glad the way that they slow built Chameleon.
Speaker 6: I mean they kind of handed it to us. At
Speaker 6: one point when he's singing like Tony Bennett and his
Speaker 6: dad's like, oh, he's the Chameleon. I was like, okay,
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm on the whole Russian thing, and I'm
Speaker 6: so glad that they were like, oh yeah, these kids
Speaker 6: were raised in America, so it doesn't have to be
Speaker 6: Aaron Taylor Johnson putting on his whole Socovian accent quicksilver again.
Speaker 6: Oh my god. I was just like, please, no, I
Speaker 6: don't need that, because I mean Age of Ultron for
Speaker 6: me is one of the worst Marvel films that has
Speaker 6: been made, just because they didn't understand what the hell
Speaker 6: to do with that thing. But I was once he
Speaker 6: started to speak with an American accent, I was like, oh,
Speaker 6: thank god, I'm I'm much happier.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, speaking to the James Bond of
Speaker 2: it all. Whenever his name got mentioned, I thought, well,
Speaker 2: that's a terrible idea. Honestly, watching this movie, I thought,
Speaker 2: oh no, I get it. I could see him as it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, same thing. I said the exact same thing to
Speaker 6: Chris yesterday especially when he's like all dappered up and
Speaker 6: in London, he's got his brother's jacket on. I'm just like,
Speaker 6: look at this dapper motherfucker.
Speaker 2: This guy could be bond And you know, you mentioned
Speaker 2: like the family thing where they kind of build in
Speaker 2: that we get the chameleon by the end, Like I
Speaker 2: would like a sequel that did feel natural, Like I
Speaker 2: enjoyed the dynamics in this family all the while dealing
Speaker 2: with the external threat, which is ostensibly Nevola as the Rhino.
Speaker 2: The effects for Rhino are a little bit ropey, not
Speaker 2: that great during that final sequence, but I gotta say
Speaker 2: it reminded me that as a child, I religiously watched
Speaker 2: that Spider Man cartoon. That's the that's the Spider Man,
Speaker 2: Spider Man, that's where that you know, where that song
Speaker 2: came from. And the Rhino was always my favorite character
Speaker 2: on that show. I just thought he was the fucking coolest.
Speaker 2: So I like that we got him and it wasn't
Speaker 2: a giant fucking robot with Paul and Jamadi inside him.
Speaker 6: Doing a horrible Russian accent in.
Speaker 2: That role over the top, over the planet.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was interesting that they named checked Miles Warren,
Speaker 6: and I was just like, oh, man, I know, I
Speaker 6: know that name. And it took me a little while
Speaker 6: to realize that he was the Jackal, and I was like,
Speaker 6: oh fuck, are they going to build in the clone
Speaker 6: story to this thing? I hope not, because that's probably
Speaker 6: the worst thing that ever happened to Spider Man. Was
Speaker 6: the whole idea Ben Riley, Oh yeah, Ben Riley. And
Speaker 6: I mean, because there's more than just him, right, aren't
Speaker 6: there more clones of Spider Man? Oh Jesus right.
Speaker 2: I gotta say teasing the Jackal was pretty cool at
Speaker 2: having him be like a genetic splicing kind of a guy.
Speaker 2: Who right, you know, because let's face it, most of
Speaker 2: Spider Man's villains are based on animals, so we might
Speaker 2: as well have someone pulling all those strings.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 6: It also is so much better that Rhino is a
Speaker 6: genetic thing, and I like the whole the medicine that
Speaker 6: keeps him from transforming and talking about pain that it
Speaker 6: causes when he transforms a little bit smarter than the
Speaker 6: original Rhino, who I think was what just he got
Speaker 6: stuck in the suit, like something happened and he's never
Speaker 6: going to leave that suit and I'm like, man, that.
Speaker 1: Suit's gotta stink exactly like black masks mask just through
Speaker 1: his gall at that point.
Speaker 4: I you know, I I think when it came to
Speaker 4: Alessandro Navola, who I mean, I think he's a great actor.
Speaker 4: I mean Jurassic Park three, you know, come on, he's
Speaker 4: also He also played Michael Imperioli's father in The Many Saints,
Speaker 4: The Many Saints of Newark, the Soprano's prequel. He's he's good.
Speaker 4: I wish they gave him more to do because it
Speaker 4: seems like they gave most of everything to Russell Crowe.
Speaker 1: It's Russell Crowe, and you have everything to do?
Speaker 4: Yeah, like Russell crow Is it just mirrored? Does it
Speaker 4: feel like we've gotten a glut of things with Russell
Speaker 4: Crowe in them all of a sudden.
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, Glad either too.
Speaker 4: Oh right now, there's that Netflix movie where he's like
Speaker 4: a psycho like driver that's supposedly pretty good. And then
Speaker 4: he was in the Exorcism, and then he was.
Speaker 1: In a movie about the making of an exorcism.
Speaker 4: Yeah right, well that was the Exorcism, and then the
Speaker 4: other one was, uh.
Speaker 1: The Last Exorcist or something. Yes, the Pope Exorcist, which
Speaker 1: was a hoot by the way.
Speaker 4: Which was great. Yeah, The Pope's Exorcist was a lot
Speaker 4: of fun. I'm super excited to see a sequel to
Speaker 4: that movie. Russell Crowe kind of steals the show. And
Speaker 4: that's too bad because I mean, again, to go back
Speaker 4: to what I was saying earlier, like Aaron Taylor Johnson
Speaker 4: is it's just one of those actors I don't get.
Speaker 4: I haven't understood it since Godzilla. I kind of got
Speaker 4: it when he was playing kick Ass. He was in
Speaker 4: Shanghai Knights as Charlie Chaplin many moons ago, like many
Speaker 4: Moons Ago. Yeah, he played child Charlie Chaplin and Shanghai Knights.
Speaker 4: That was like one of his first acting roles. He
Speaker 4: was like a child. I just for me, He's like
Speaker 4: Sam Worthington and Joel Kinneman, and.
Speaker 1: I like, like Joel Kinneman, do not compare them to
Speaker 1: that other fund.
Speaker 4: Okay, how's this Sam Worthington, Jay Courtney.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get those two being lumped into the same category,
Speaker 2: and I kind of see Aaron Taylor Johnson, depending on
Speaker 2: the role, falling into that as well. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, you mentioned a couple where he's good and
Speaker 2: I think he's really good here.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think he's really good in Bullet Train. I
Speaker 6: really like him in that one. I'm curious to see
Speaker 6: him in this Nosferato. He's supposed to be in that
Speaker 6: as well, So curious. And he was okay in The
Speaker 6: Kingsman as well King's Man. Sorry, that's right. And apparently
Speaker 6: he was in Tenant, but I have pretty much no
Speaker 6: memory of that movie, which I'm really glad for because
Speaker 6: that was so awful.
Speaker 2: Can I mention one weird thing in this movie? The
Speaker 2: movie starts with a prison break sequence in like in
Speaker 2: a Gulac.
Speaker 6: But yeah, I kept waiting for what's his name from
Speaker 6: The Crimson Commando. I kept thinking of the prison break
Speaker 6: scene in Black Widow. I was just like, oh boy.
Speaker 2: But while the production logos are going, and what is
Speaker 2: effectively the credit sequence, the theme music from The Hunt
Speaker 2: for Red October is play.
Speaker 3: Yes, thank You.
Speaker 6: Andrew was like, what is that music? And I was like,
Speaker 6: and sleep shall Bring New holes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was an usher at a movie theater playing
Speaker 2: the Hunt for Red October.
Speaker 1: Oh, I know that music. Intimately so wonderful.
Speaker 6: Wonder In the the end of the movie with the Yeah,
Speaker 6: oh yeah, it's so good and yeah when that music
Speaker 6: comes up. Oh, it was a great movie to clean
Speaker 6: the theater too.
Speaker 1: It absolutely was. So this movie starts and I'm like
Speaker 1: what what? No?
Speaker 4: What? No?
Speaker 1: And yet I mean I get it.
Speaker 2: It's like a you know, it's a Columbia or Sony property,
Speaker 2: so they can get away with it.
Speaker 1: But just use the Russian national anth just use any dump.
Speaker 1: That was weird. It was a weird way to start.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I had
Speaker 6: totally forgotten about it. But yes, as soon as that
Speaker 6: music started, I was like I know this and yeah,
Speaker 6: Andrews like what is this? This is familiar to me? Yeah,
Speaker 6: that was wild. And yeah I just kept thinking of, like, well,
Speaker 6: all the prison break movies, but especially thinking of Black
Speaker 6: Widow breaking her father out of prison. I was just like,
Speaker 6: is he in that same jail? Or is there was
Speaker 6: also a prison break in one of the Mission Impossibles
Speaker 6: that I think was also in a Russian prison, And
Speaker 6: I was like, all right, waiting for like, okay, open
Speaker 6: up this door or open up this door. But instead,
Speaker 6: as soon as he starts like crawling around on the walls,
Speaker 6: I was like, Oh, okay, this guy. It's not just strength,
Speaker 6: it's also this crawling and jumping ability. So all right,
Speaker 6: I guess that stuff that Calypso gives him is almost
Speaker 6: like super soldier serum.
Speaker 4: So clearly defined where his superpower is in this movie, right.
Speaker 2: I think they seem pretty defined. Actually, he doesn't necessarily
Speaker 2: commune with animals, but he has their powers and can
Speaker 2: sort of catch their drift. He's also a super strength
Speaker 2: and super agility.
Speaker 6: Yeah, a very beastmaster. I kept waiting for, Like, there's
Speaker 6: one part where like a hawk is tapping on the
Speaker 6: glass window and I was just like, Oh, he's going
Speaker 6: to see through the hawk's eyes, But no, he doesn't.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: In the comic that serum that Calypso gives him is
Speaker 2: basically like a super soldier serum like the Wakandan herb,
Speaker 2: but here they kind of use it like resurrection juice,
Speaker 2: and it has a side effect of the of the
Speaker 2: strength and the and and the connection to nature.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I found interesting the way that they did the opening
Speaker 6: and then going back in time and showing his origin
Speaker 6: story and speaking of Russell Crowe. There are a couple
Speaker 6: of times like when the lion attacks him and is
Speaker 6: carrying him across the savannah. There's a shot where his
Speaker 6: hand is hanging and it's like brushing all of this,
Speaker 6: all this fauna, and I just kept thinking of that
Speaker 6: shot of Russell Crowe when he's touching the heads of
Speaker 6: the stalks of wheat, and I was like, I wonder
Speaker 6: if they're doing this as a little homage to Russell
Speaker 6: Crowe in Gladiator. You mean, yeah, a little Gladiator.
Speaker 2: The violence in this movie. There's a particular sequence where
Speaker 2: he's taking out all of Rhino's men in the forest,
Speaker 2: which is incredibly bloody and kind of fantastic. Honestly, it's
Speaker 2: a it's a very rambo section of this movie. Uh,
Speaker 2: not to not to hammer this, but we're gonna have
Speaker 2: him acting this way, but we're not going to make
Speaker 2: him a villa. Just make him just can't you just
Speaker 2: give him like a diet danger diabolic kind of thing
Speaker 2: where he just gets off breaking the rules. Like, just
Speaker 2: make him wanted for something other than doing something noble.
Speaker 2: Because when we start this movie, he's got a list
Speaker 2: like he's green Arrow or something like taking out like
Speaker 2: they all these these criminals. Basically, what they've done is
Speaker 2: turn Craven the Hunter into Craven the Punisher here, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 4: Kind of dexter adjacent. He only kills bad people, like okay.
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I was actually thinking of the Punisher because
Speaker 6: I didn't dive into this area of the mythos. But
Speaker 6: when the foreigners like, oh he killed my mentor and
Speaker 6: he holds up a copy just happens to have a
Speaker 6: copy of The Daily Bugle with him, and it's like
Speaker 6: what Hunter kills Hitman or something? And I was like, well,
Speaker 6: who is that? Is that the Punisher? Who could that be?
Speaker 6: So I didn't didn't go back into the Wikipedia to find.
Speaker 1: That one out. Yeah, that one's lost on me too.
Speaker 2: But oh, thank god we got The Daily Bugle and
Speaker 2: every one of these Sony movies just to tie and
Speaker 2: Tias in. Oh, don't forget this is a Spider Man movie, folks.
Speaker 4: At least they didn't have baby spider Man.
Speaker 1: Oh god god.
Speaker 6: Yeah, this one felt the most in universe with those
Speaker 6: Andrew Garfields to me, as far as like, oh there
Speaker 6: could be a Spider Man in this universe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, this one felt the most realized of any
Speaker 2: of them. It seemed to know what where it stood
Speaker 2: in relation to the other movies and what it had
Speaker 2: to give, whereas Venom it seemed like and I think that,
Speaker 2: you know, from what I read, the producers were always like,
Speaker 2: this is standalone stuff. Yes, it kind of shares the universe,
Speaker 2: but not really, so I don't think they were ever
Speaker 2: looking to build anything on anything with those other movies.
Speaker 2: They were hoping with Morbius, but Jesus Christ, what a
Speaker 2: fiasco and then Madam Webble.
Speaker 4: It is crazy how many of these movies. They made.
Speaker 4: Three Venom movies, Morbius, Madam Webb and Craven the Hunter,
Speaker 4: and and don't forget Spider Noir the TV show.
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to that, actually, sorry.
Speaker 4: Nicholas Cage, Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. But it's
Speaker 4: part of this is this is this is that that's
Speaker 4: technically the last entry in all of this, because that's
Speaker 4: coming out I think next year.
Speaker 2: But that's part that's part of Into the Spider Verse, right,
Speaker 2: well technically so is this isn't it? No, But into
Speaker 2: the Spider Verse sort of stands outside of everything because
Speaker 2: all of the different franchises can be found within there,
Speaker 2: so that's kind of its own deal.
Speaker 4: I don't fucking know. Anymore. How's that given the MCU
Speaker 4: of it all.
Speaker 5: Neither.
Speaker 4: It's they wanted all to be part of everything all
Speaker 4: the time.
Speaker 2: Like they wanted their own universe where they kept all
Speaker 2: the profits, and they wanted Marvel to do all the
Speaker 2: work for them. I mean that that was the deal, right.
Speaker 2: Initially they they put up all the financing and Marvel
Speaker 2: got five percent of the gross and kept the merchandising.
Speaker 2: And then in twenty nineteen when they had to renegotiate,
Speaker 2: so Marvel wanted fifty percent of the gross, and that's
Speaker 2: when Sony was like, fuck you, we'll make our own
Speaker 2: Spider Man movies now, and Tom Holland brought them back
Speaker 2: to the table. And then now what happens is so
Speaker 2: Marvel pays for twenty five percent of the production budget
Speaker 2: and takes twenty five percent of the profit and has
Speaker 2: kept the merchandising rights.
Speaker 4: It's pretty smart.
Speaker 6: Foreigner's mentor might have been somebody named Chance who ended
Speaker 6: up cooking up with the Black Cat. So oh wait, no,
Speaker 6: I take it back, Foreigner became romantically involved with the
Speaker 6: Black Cat.
Speaker 1: So all these movies, we still.
Speaker 6: Do not have a black Cat.
Speaker 4: Come on, well, that was Silver and Black. That was
Speaker 4: the one that got canceled. Oh right, that was there.
Speaker 4: There was one that was Yeah, Silver and Black was
Speaker 4: going to be the Silver Sable and Black Cat movie.
Speaker 4: And I don't think they ever I'm not even sure
Speaker 4: they ever said who they were casting. I don't think
Speaker 4: it ever got that far. Maybe it did, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't I never heard who they had cast. But
Speaker 4: that that ended up going the way of the Dodo
Speaker 4: as well.
Speaker 6: So remember when they made a Cloak and Dagger? What
Speaker 6: was that a TV show?
Speaker 4: Right? When they made an inhuman's TV show? Sure?
Speaker 6: Remember that one.
Speaker 4: And then they literally referenced it in fucking Doctor Strange
Speaker 4: of all things.
Speaker 2: Remember that New Mutants movie.
Speaker 1: God man, this is like that.
Speaker 4: This is in that same vein, right, It's just like
Speaker 4: it's a weird anomaly that stands out as its own
Speaker 4: thing when we're like the Look, I have my issues
Speaker 4: with the MCU, but for fuck's sake, this this makes
Speaker 4: the problems that the MCU is having look minor comparatively.
Speaker 1: Well, Mike, I agree with you, Mike. I'll go one further.
Speaker 2: I think this one actually could have fallen if you
Speaker 2: were to tell me this was part of the MCU.
Speaker 2: I would kind of buy it and was wondering, would
Speaker 2: wonder how they were going to tie it in. But
Speaker 2: you know, we've all got superhero fatigue these days, and
Speaker 2: the problem with the reason we have it. We're all
Speaker 2: fucking pointing our fingers at Marvel, but it's really because
Speaker 2: of fucking Sony releasing poor effort after poor effort, along
Speaker 2: with DC not knowing what the fuck they're doing over there,
Speaker 2: and like, on top of that, we had twentieth Century
Speaker 2: Fox fucking shit up at least until what twenty twelve
Speaker 2: or so.
Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Obviously we're gonna burn out. They just keep giving us bullshit.
Speaker 6: No, you're one hundred percent right, because there were so
Speaker 6: many clunkers amongst all of those I mean DC, I mean,
Speaker 6: in the last twelve fifteen years, it's been really fucking rough.
Speaker 6: I mean, maybe the Suicide Squad is the one that
Speaker 6: I appreciate from that, and that's probably because of fucking
Speaker 6: James Gunn where it just becomes the Guardians of the
Speaker 6: Galaxy on Earth type of thing. And yeah, it's I
Speaker 6: don't know, I could see this fitting into the regular
Speaker 6: MCU because I know Chris didn't like it, But I
Speaker 6: was of the opinion that this kind of fits with
Speaker 6: their style a lot more. And I could see now
Speaker 6: this Craven, I would actually see him teaming up with
Speaker 6: Tom Holland rather than going against him. But yeah, I
Speaker 6: agree that this is more more of a quality than
Speaker 6: Sony has given us in a long damn time when
Speaker 6: it comes to these, and yeah, way better than some
Speaker 6: of those fucking X Men movies that they're doing for
Speaker 6: a while there.
Speaker 1: I mean, X Men.
Speaker 6: Two one of the best, but x Men three one
Speaker 6: of the worst. I mean, they just vacillated like crazy.
Speaker 6: It was like being throttled whenever you went to see
Speaker 6: one of those X Men films.
Speaker 4: I could see this being a Netflix thing, That's what
Speaker 4: I could see this being. To mention, like Father Malone,
Speaker 4: you already mentioned The Punisher, that was a Netflix thing
Speaker 4: technically part of the MCU, like it was, it's its
Speaker 4: own thing, but it's part of the MCU. There's a
Speaker 4: lot of violence in Gore and that I look. I
Speaker 4: I do not disagree with you all in terms of
Speaker 4: of this version of Craven working in the MCU. I
Speaker 4: think he would work just fine, given that they have
Speaker 4: to figure out a way to make Deadpool work at
Speaker 4: this point, And I don't think that this character is
Speaker 4: any more or less hard to handle or get a
Speaker 4: wrangle on than Deadpool would be to put in the MCU.
Speaker 4: I don't think he's going to be in the MCU,
Speaker 4: but I also don't think that I don't think that
Speaker 4: they're going to do anything with Craven in the MCU. Anyways.
Speaker 6: It's going to be real awkward, real awkward when the
Speaker 6: Scarlet Witch sees Craven and is like, you look just
Speaker 6: like my dead brother, right, And it's going to be
Speaker 6: real awkward if we ever see Paul Giamatti in that
Speaker 6: mechanical suit, because Craven's going to be like, didn't I
Speaker 6: fight you already? Weren't you a mutant before or some
Speaker 6: sort of like genetic hybrid.
Speaker 2: And on his way to the afterlife, Nikolai Cravenoff might
Speaker 2: run into Zeus.
Speaker 6: Exactly and be like, you look just like Craven's dad.
Speaker 1: The stars were so many they seem to overlap.
Speaker 4: I guess my question to y'all is, given that this
Speaker 4: is the end of the Sony Spider Verse as it
Speaker 4: were in terms of theatrical releases, and you've already kind
Speaker 4: of touched on it a little bit, Mike, like, is
Speaker 4: this in the top third? And if it is in
Speaker 4: the top third, is that just because everything else is
Speaker 4: so bad as well? Like this movie didn't have very
Speaker 4: far to go to be better than everything else, Like
Speaker 4: Madam Webb is an affront to most cinematic good taste
Speaker 4: the Venom movies, You're gonna kind of you know, your
Speaker 4: mileage will vary. I would go as far as to say,
Speaker 4: I think I enjoyed all of the Venam movies more
Speaker 4: than I enjoyed this movie. But for me, is this
Speaker 4: is this good on its own? Or is it just
Speaker 4: good because everything else that we've seen up to this
Speaker 4: point has been so kind of mediocre to outright bad.
Speaker 1: I likeked it comparatively, and ianked it on its own.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think I'm there. I think I'm there with you.
Speaker 6: I mean I, like I said, I can really see
Speaker 6: myself watching this again. I can see this going onto
Speaker 6: my wife's plex playlist that she just repeats constantly and
Speaker 6: being like, Okay, I'm alright with this a lot more
Speaker 6: than things like you already mentioned Aaron Taylor Johnson and
Speaker 6: Godzilla that one ooof man oh man, that was that's
Speaker 6: a rough one.
Speaker 4: I just he he for me is an actor that
Speaker 4: I'm just not super into in what he does. It
Speaker 4: just kind of always falls flat. And when when they
Speaker 4: when they announced that he was going to be Craven,
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, like all right, like he's already
Speaker 4: played a character in the MCU, Like we couldn't have
Speaker 4: found somebody else to play Craven. And I mean, clearly
Speaker 4: the MCU has no interest in doing anything with Craven.
Speaker 4: So that's probably for me, the biggest shame is that
Speaker 4: we may never get Crave in the actual MCU the
Speaker 4: way he should because to both of y'all's points, like
Speaker 4: he's a pretty big part of the Spider Man mythos,
Speaker 4: Like he's a huge part of the Spider Man mythos.
Speaker 4: He's constantly hunting Spider Man.
Speaker 2: Like well, and his brother, the Chameleon was the first
Speaker 2: villain in Spider Man one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So for me, it's just like it's almost like
Speaker 4: they kind of let the cat out of the bag,
Speaker 4: like they should have let the MCU do Craven, just
Speaker 4: like they probably should have let the MCU do Venom,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But they're going to eventually, that's the thing. Eventually
Speaker 2: we'll just somehow get all the rights back and then
Speaker 2: we'll get the other versions, including I'm now looking forward
Speaker 2: to the MCU's version of Craven because we're going to
Speaker 2: get the fucking psychopath hunter who is all braggadoccio and
Speaker 2: will hunt anything as just to prove that he can
Speaker 2: fucking do it, including villains, including heroes, including women, children
Speaker 2: who cares.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm yeah, that's the thing. Is like, I picture
Speaker 6: Venom as not Venom Jesus. I picture Craven as a
Speaker 6: much more bloodthirsty, crazy guy, and this one I'm like,
Speaker 6: oh no, he seems like a pretty nice dude, And
Speaker 6: especially the way he's protecting the animals and stuff, I
Speaker 6: was like, oh yeah, if this guy is just all
Speaker 6: about taking down poachers, let's do it. I'm here for it.
Speaker 1: And let's stop across the board.
Speaker 2: Do not tease a comic accurate outfit that you're going
Speaker 2: to show us for two seconds, stop doing.
Speaker 1: Because I'll tell you what.
Speaker 2: The entire time, I kept thinking, like, when they announced
Speaker 2: that he was coming, I'm like, they're gonna do a
Speaker 2: Craven movie. Are they going to put him in that
Speaker 2: fucking vest, cause that could be weird. And then at
Speaker 2: the end of this movie, I'm like, yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2: Go I want to see him running around in that shit.
Speaker 4: And they did the same thing that Fox did with Wolverine.
Speaker 4: They were like, oh, it would look dumb. It's like, well, no,
Speaker 4: I mean people popped like crazy and Deadpool Wolverine for
Speaker 4: when Wolverine put his like mask yellow suit. Yeah, people
Speaker 4: went ape shit for that, Like, hey, I'm sorry, but
Speaker 4: if you're gonna have him on your poster wearing it,
Speaker 4: you can't just show it in the last thirty seconds
Speaker 4: of the movie. That's pretty that's pretty lame. Like all
Speaker 4: the advertising has him in that in the iconic you know,
Speaker 4: lion vest, and it's like, oh, we're just gonna show
Speaker 4: him sitting in his throne at the end of the movie. Okay,
Speaker 4: Like that felt so unearned, and the movie was like
Speaker 4: cee cee cee, He's craving. Now It's like, no, I
Speaker 4: don't think so.
Speaker 2: I think it was totally earned. I'm just mad that
Speaker 2: they that they keep doing that and all the bullshit movies,
Speaker 2: and then when they finally get one right, I'm like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: I don't ever get to see him do that. I
Speaker 2: don't ever see him running around and throwing a spear
Speaker 2: in the middle of New York City with the fucking
Speaker 2: lion vest On.
Speaker 1: Come on, now, well.
Speaker 4: And that's the thing. That's the thing for me. I
Speaker 4: would have preferred it to be more accurate to the
Speaker 4: comic book. But again, then you, I guess you run
Speaker 4: into the issue of it looking and seeming silly.
Speaker 2: I guess, well, you know, the thing is the thing
Speaker 2: that all the fans were clamoring for. That Craven's most
Speaker 2: famous book occurred in the middle of the nineteen eighties,
Speaker 2: and that's Craven's Last Hunt, where he has determined that
Speaker 2: he will go all out to kill Spider Man, and
Speaker 2: he believes he does it. He buries Spider Man in
Speaker 2: this like concrete coffin, and you know, buries him obviously,
Speaker 2: and then having completed his task, he goes and kills himself.
Speaker 2: And then that's the end of Craven as a character.
Speaker 2: So I don't know why fans were hoping that that
Speaker 2: would be this adadation. It seems a little self defeating.
Speaker 2: I mean, I want to see that story and if
Speaker 2: they had known that this was going to be the last,
Speaker 2: then I would have suggested that they go for it,
Speaker 2: but clearly they thought they were going to continue. Nevertheless,
Speaker 2: that does leave the door open for the Marvel Universe
Speaker 2: to do that story. They could do Craven as a
Speaker 2: one off and have him be a villain who ends
Speaker 2: up killing himself.
Speaker 1: I'd be totally satisfied with that.
Speaker 6: He killed Spider Man. He means Spider Man's dead.
Speaker 1: He is many years now.
Speaker 6: Oh wow, is his clone still alive?
Speaker 1: No, but we got but we got Miles.
Speaker 6: Yes, we did have Miles Morales.
Speaker 1: Thank goodness.
Speaker 4: I think for me, with a movie like this and
Speaker 4: so many of these other non MCU but Marvel things,
Speaker 4: they are fighting an uphill battle because the MCU, for
Speaker 4: the longest time set the bar very high and was
Speaker 4: essentially like the high water mark of these kinds of things.
Speaker 4: Now that the MCU has kind of faltered a little
Speaker 4: bit and is kind of going back on the way
Speaker 4: that they've done things, I look at something like this
Speaker 4: and think to myself, like, Okay, so you did this.
Speaker 4: You kind of just made this movie. It underperformed, You're
Speaker 4: not doing anything else with it, Like, why did we
Speaker 4: do this? In the first place, it's just for the
Speaker 4: continuation of the rights. It's just to hold down like
Speaker 4: the the rights. I'm assuming is kind of what it
Speaker 4: seems like, because again, nobody was clamoring for a Craven movie,
Speaker 4: just like nobody was clamoring for a ant May movie
Speaker 4: that they had talked about making for the longest time. Remember,
Speaker 4: that was one of the things that they were like,
Speaker 4: we're gonna make a movie about aunt May. And it's like.
Speaker 1: They didn't. They didn't announce that, didn't they.
Speaker 4: They did, Yeah, they sure said that that's gonna happen.
Speaker 4: It's like who wanted that? And look, I mean to
Speaker 4: your point, Father Malone, Like I would say, in terms
Speaker 4: of villains, Batman has the best villains in DC, and
Speaker 4: I think Spider Man has the best villains in Marvel, Like.
Speaker 1: Is that right? Do you think so?
Speaker 4: I think he's If he doesn't have the best, he's
Speaker 4: up up near the top.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think he might be right. Spider
Speaker 2: Man does have the most outrageous Rose Gallery.
Speaker 4: Electro Venom, Carnage, Scorpion, Craven, Unasure Technique.
Speaker 2: Doctor Octopus, the Green Goblin, the hob Goblin.
Speaker 4: Green Goblin alone.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, yeah, the whole family.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the Fantastic Four has Doctor Doom, you know, and
Speaker 4: they have their people, and you know, Wolverine and the
Speaker 4: X Men have Magneto and their people. But like I think,
Speaker 4: for me, when I think of Spider Man, I think
Speaker 4: of Spider Man's like the Sinister Six, like his Rogues
Speaker 4: gallery of Villains reminds me of like the best of
Speaker 4: Batman's villains. And like to both of y'all's points, like,
Speaker 4: I don't think doing a Sinister Six thing was a
Speaker 4: bad idea. I think they probably should have just done
Speaker 4: that though, as opposed to like trying to make this
Speaker 4: Sideways universe its own thing and then we'll make a
Speaker 4: Sinister Six movie, which is what I was assuming the
Speaker 4: plan was here in all this was to make a
Speaker 4: movie that had Madame Webb and Venom and Carnage and
Speaker 4: Borbious and Craven and all them together in a movie.
Speaker 4: Like That's why I'm assuming that this was eventually building towards.
Speaker 4: We are not getting that now, so we will never
Speaker 4: know what they were going for. But it for me
Speaker 4: is just again like it almost feels like it failed
Speaker 4: in spite of the fact that it was trying to
Speaker 4: do something different from the MCU. But because the MCU
Speaker 4: has set the watermarks so high, we all expect quality,
Speaker 4: and when it's this differential of quality between the two,
Speaker 4: you can't help but just look at this and go like,
Speaker 4: why did we even make this? Like what what are
Speaker 4: Why are we not just letting the MCU do this?
Speaker 4: Is my question.
Speaker 2: What's crazy is that they all tried to ape the MCU,
Speaker 2: or to go so far in the other direction that
Speaker 2: it became unintelligible. Where Whereas they had a chance here
Speaker 2: because they were locked into only doing villains to tell
Speaker 2: an entirely different kind of comic book story on screen,
Speaker 2: that we could have got behind villainous behavior, or you know,
Speaker 2: they could have made horror movies or you know, thrillers
Speaker 2: with these. They could have gone in any direction they
Speaker 2: wanted as far afield from what Marvel was doing as
Speaker 2: possible and just make good movies of those and it
Speaker 2: would have invigorated the genre. Instead, we just got carbon
Speaker 2: copies of carbon copies.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, remember the way that they shoehorned Vulture
Speaker 6: into the end of Morbius and that deleted scene. It
Speaker 6: also is very telling with this movie, you know, because
Speaker 6: I used that run p app to see if there's
Speaker 6: extra scenes, no extra scenes in this movie, and I
Speaker 6: was like, oh, did they know that this was the end?
Speaker 6: I don't think they did, but it felt very odd
Speaker 6: that they weren't going to use those mid and post
Speaker 6: credits as any sort of setup for, you know, bringing
Speaker 6: back I can't remember that actor's name, Dehan whatever, the
Speaker 6: guy's name that played gone. Yes, the green goblin that
Speaker 6: looked like he was had an unfortunate disease.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what we want from that character, certainly. Right, Look,
Speaker 2: either give us a goblin face or give us a helmet,
Speaker 2: don't try and fuck around in between, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm just looking at all the members of the
Speaker 6: Sinister Six and all of the different incarnations. It's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 6: But you're right, Chris, there are a lot of great
Speaker 6: villains for Spider Man to go against. I mean just
Speaker 6: looking at the later recruits, you know, with like Beetle
Speaker 6: and Shocker and Grim Reaper and Lizard and Living Brain
Speaker 6: just that. Yeah, there's a ton of great people that
Speaker 6: he could go against at any time.
Speaker 2: Evidently, Craven was going to be the backup villain for
Speaker 2: Mysterio and spider Man Far from Home, but they were
Speaker 2: denied the right to use the character. Ultimately, they tried
Speaker 2: to use him again some other time and were told
Speaker 2: they couldn't use him.
Speaker 6: It still doesn't make any sense that they used Electro
Speaker 6: in that that last Spider Man movie, because he doesn't
Speaker 6: know who Peter Parker is, or doesn't know that Spider
Speaker 6: Man is Peter Parker, at least according to their own
Speaker 6: fucking movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, there was a lot of problems with the timelines
Speaker 2: in that movie and the melding of the different world.
Speaker 2: I think they did a pretty good job considering all
Speaker 2: of the different balls they had to get into the air.
Speaker 2: But yeah, a lot to be desired. Maybe work on
Speaker 2: that script another six months, another two three passes.
Speaker 6: Which seems to be a common refrain when we talk
Speaker 6: about these newer films, especially things like Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice or
Speaker 6: some of the other ones that we've said, you waited
Speaker 6: this long, Why didn't you wait just a little bit
Speaker 6: longer and make it better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've waited twenty thirty years in some cases, and
Speaker 2: they're like, okay, and now here's the release date, Go
Speaker 2: make the movie.
Speaker 4: Wait?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Why is the money dependent on that date? What
Speaker 2: kind of outdated system are well?
Speaker 1: Is that the problem?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 2: The system is just now fully broken where we can
Speaker 2: see all of the flaws, and you know, it gives
Speaker 2: me a bit of heart that I feel a bit
Speaker 2: heartened in that James Gunn has been hammering over and
Speaker 2: over again, we're not starting the movie until the script
Speaker 2: is ready. That's great, Please do that, but make sure
Speaker 2: the script is actually good.
Speaker 4: I will say, though, now that now that this is over, yeah,
Speaker 4: like that, now that this is over, now that this
Speaker 4: Spider Versus done, where do they go from here? Do
Speaker 4: they just does Sony just give the rights back to
Speaker 4: Marvel and say, here you go, Mia Kolpa, we fucked
Speaker 4: around and found out long enough. Maybe you guys can
Speaker 4: have the rights back and we'll just sell it to
Speaker 4: you for you know, large sums of money, like they
Speaker 4: should have just done long ago, as opposed to effectively
Speaker 4: getting egg on their face with like six movies like
Speaker 4: That's the thing I don't understand here. As much as
Speaker 4: I appreciate that y'all enjoyed this movie broadly, this movie
Speaker 4: is getting poorly reviewed broadly. This movie is making no
Speaker 4: money broadly, this movie is a failure in terms of
Speaker 4: box office, in terms of the financial side of it.
Speaker 4: Just speaking financially, none of these movies have been successful
Speaker 4: other than the Venom movie. That's what I don't understand here,
Speaker 4: Like the sunk cost fallacy is a thing. Stop putting
Speaker 4: more money into the fucking hole at some point, it's
Speaker 4: it's weird to me. Venom is a movie that I
Speaker 4: understand why it got two sequels. It got two sequels
Speaker 4: because it made money. I don't understand why they made
Speaker 4: Madame Web and Morbius and this movie because they ultimately
Speaker 4: serve no purpose. Morbius goes nowhere and frankly, all it
Speaker 4: does is kind of convolute the multiverse more. And Madame
Speaker 4: Web again, I'm not sure what the point of that
Speaker 4: movie was other than to pay for a home in
Speaker 4: Malibu for Dakota Johnson. I'm assuming as if she needs
Speaker 4: the money, given that her parents are both insanely wealthy
Speaker 4: and so actors of note in their own right. I
Speaker 4: just don't understand what they were trying to accomplish here
Speaker 4: without Spider Man. I think, to y'all's point, maybe it
Speaker 4: was a well, maybe we'll get Spider Man at some
Speaker 4: point and Marvel will play ball with us, and you know,
Speaker 4: we'll get the opportunity to use Spider Man in our
Speaker 4: movies at some point. But like, yeah, you had to
Speaker 4: make good movies for Marvel to give you the opportunity
Speaker 4: to have Spider Man, and they never did. And what's
Speaker 4: crazy to me is JC Chandor has made some pretty
Speaker 4: great movies. A Most Violent Year is quite good, Margin
Speaker 4: Call is quite good. Those are quite good movies. This
Speaker 4: is like for JC Chandor, this is a lesser movie
Speaker 4: in his filmography on top of everything else. But what's
Speaker 4: weird to me is I just don't understand why they
Speaker 4: kept making these movies when they saw that they weren't
Speaker 4: being successful. And to further point, if they saw they
Speaker 4: weren't being successful, why did they keep making them unless
Speaker 4: it was solely and purely to just be like, we
Speaker 4: want to keep the rights to this, and so we will.
Speaker 6: You asked where Sony's going to go with this afterwards,
Speaker 6: and I think they're going to go back and hire
Speaker 6: Sam Raimie and have him do his fourth Spider Man
Speaker 6: film with Tommy maguire. I think that's a good opportunity. Otherwise, yeah,
Speaker 6: they might just hand it all back and be like, Okay,
Speaker 6: it's Tom Holland from here on out until he decides
Speaker 6: to retire from this role, which would be a really
Speaker 6: bad thing.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 6: I think Robert Downey Jr. Is kind of having buyer's
Speaker 6: remorse with his like, oh, I'm not going to be
Speaker 6: Iron Man anymore coming back and doing doom. But at
Speaker 6: the same time, they probably had an army of dump
Speaker 6: trucks to just back up and pour some money on him,
Speaker 6: because I think they know just losing Downey losing Chris
Speaker 6: Evans like those were major blows. They really shouldn't have been.
Speaker 6: I mean, a smart studio would have been able to
Speaker 6: pick up and carry on for there, but I think
Speaker 6: the lack of those two characters had really sent them
Speaker 6: into tailspin.
Speaker 4: They did too good of a job and making those
Speaker 4: characters compelling, and they didn't do a good enough job
Speaker 4: and making other characters compelling. Like I know, Father Malone's
Speaker 4: a huge fan of Captain America. I am a massive
Speaker 4: fan of some of the other characters in the MCU,
Speaker 4: But I'm fans of the MCU interpretations not necessarily like
Speaker 4: the comic books and the movie interpretation of Ant Man
Speaker 4: are vastly different, but like Iron Man and Captain America,
Speaker 4: very similar to the comic books, like very much kind
Speaker 4: of what you would expect if you read the comic
Speaker 4: books at least of a certain time in a place.
Speaker 4: And like, I think that there's some of the consistency,
Speaker 4: that mark that the MCU had was tied to the
Speaker 4: consistency of the actors involved. And I'm not saying that
Speaker 4: people are lesser or better than Chris Evans and Robert
Speaker 4: Downey Junior, but Chris Evans and Robert Downey Junior elevate
Speaker 4: the shit out of anything that they're in, almost just
Speaker 4: by the sheer act of them being in it. Maybe
Speaker 4: not too little, but you know, not everything can be,
Speaker 4: you know, making you so much money you never have
Speaker 4: to work again, and are only working because you want to,
Speaker 4: not because you have to.
Speaker 2: I think I think it's kind of obvious. They thought
Speaker 2: that they were going to be trading back and forth
Speaker 2: with Tom Holland, and that they were committing these characters,
Speaker 2: and then after a while, Tom Holland would be able
Speaker 2: to interact with their villains the way he was interacting
Speaker 2: with the regular MCU villains. So I think they just
Speaker 2: planned a whole bunch of movies just willy nilly and
Speaker 2: put them into production without any sort of thought beyond that,
Speaker 2: figuring that when Tom Holland was involved, the Marvel people
Speaker 2: would be involved in one way or another and they
Speaker 2: their movies would be elevated. So I think that's why
Speaker 2: all of them are out there. I think going forward,
Speaker 2: I think you're right, Mike. I think we're going to
Speaker 2: get either another Andrew Garfield or another Toby MacGuire movie.
Speaker 2: And I think the way that's going to happen is
Speaker 2: they're going to multiverse Tom Holland over to get us
Speaker 2: back into those movies is and that I'll be like
Speaker 2: Marvel repaying their favor, if not an entire three or two,
Speaker 2: like a duo of Spider Man in a movie. I
Speaker 2: think that movie's on the way, and then I think
Speaker 2: we'll get like standalone either well, either Peter Parker or
Speaker 2: Peter Parker.
Speaker 6: The thing I like about the Spider Man movies and
Speaker 6: the Spider Man stories is that they're New York centric.
Speaker 6: I mean, yes, we've had him go like with Tom
Speaker 6: Holland going over seas and going to Washington, DC, like
Speaker 6: they're taking place outside of New York City. But I
Speaker 6: like that they're so New York centric and there's smaller
Speaker 6: stories that it doesn't have to be the world is
Speaker 6: going to be destroyed by a magical blue beam that
Speaker 6: shoots out of someplace or beams down from someplace, like
Speaker 6: save that stuff for the Avengers, and they do, and
Speaker 6: I think that's really smart. And I think that that's
Speaker 6: one of the problems I've been having more with the
Speaker 6: the DC movies, is that everything seems to be the
Speaker 6: world could end. Like Batman's stories are smart, especially the
Speaker 6: Chris Nolan Batman, where it's like it's just taking place
Speaker 6: here in Gotham, it's not affecting the entire world. But
Speaker 6: then you get Superman and those are like, oh, I'm
Speaker 6: going to destroy all of Metropolis plus three quarters of
Speaker 6: the earth that feels like and he's spinning around, you know.
Speaker 6: And that's Superman. He's a god. He can do whatever
Speaker 6: he wants. But Spider Man's not a god. And I
Speaker 6: like that these are such smaller stories where it's like
Speaker 6: a person versus a villain or two. You get in
Speaker 6: trouble and it's three, but a person versus a villain
Speaker 6: or two that he can defeat, but it takes a
Speaker 6: whole lot for him to do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, ultimately, Spider Man is a street level
Speaker 2: hero for Marvel. Yeah, and that's what we like about him.
Speaker 2: That's why we like Punisher, That's why we like Daredevil.
Speaker 2: We like these guys on the street doing minor work
Speaker 2: that regular people can't but isn't necessarily the entire island
Speaker 2: of Manhattan is going to explain. And I think that's
Speaker 2: what everyone needs to start focusing on with these superhero
Speaker 2: movies is lower the stakes, make the stakes more personal somehow.
Speaker 2: That that always works for me, and particularly that works
Speaker 2: in Spider Man. That's what's always worked. Those are emotional
Speaker 2: stories about a young man and you know the crazy
Speaker 2: world he lives in, in his interpersonal relationships and stuff.
Speaker 2: So weirdly they kind of carried that ethos here to
Speaker 2: the Craven movie.
Speaker 6: Yeah, even though he was globe popping quite a bit,
Speaker 6: like back and forth between Siberia and London a ton
Speaker 6: but and Ghana.
Speaker 4: Yes, they just didn't want Craven to be a villain.
Speaker 1: No, they wanted they want their heroes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they wanted him because they don't have Spider Man.
Speaker 2: Right, And I think by now they figured out we're
Speaker 2: not getting Spider Man. He's not going to be interacting
Speaker 2: with our villains. Let's try and spin this and make
Speaker 2: it good. But it was too little, too late.
Speaker 4: And not only is it too little too late, at
Speaker 4: the end of the day, they sho have put something
Speaker 4: in place to secure the opportunity to have Spider Man
Speaker 4: long before they were like, well, just wait and see,
Speaker 4: like and you fucked around and found out like big time. Yeah,
Speaker 4: Because again, like that's why I go back to, like,
Speaker 4: they just kept making these movies and doubling and tripling
Speaker 4: and quadrupling down on them, and it's like, at what
Speaker 4: point are we just gonna stop and stop making these
Speaker 4: goddamn movies? Finally now apparently when when again, I think
Speaker 4: to y'all's point, like, for as much as I didn't
Speaker 4: like Craven, I will concede it's better than pretty much
Speaker 4: anything else I've seen in the Sony versus, other than
Speaker 4: the Venom movies, which are kind of their own thing,
Speaker 4: at least for me.
Speaker 6: Anyways, Yeah, they just kept setting that plate, you know,
Speaker 6: going around like all right, everybody's got the roles, everyone's
Speaker 6: got the salad, or we're coming to the main course.
Speaker 6: Main courses coming up. Uh, Peter Parker was supposed to
Speaker 6: bring it. Where's this Peter Parker guy? No turkey on Thanksgiving? Sorry, guys,
Speaker 6: whole meal.
Speaker 2: Is now ruined well, and you know, and Peter Parker's
Speaker 2: usually good at those males.
Speaker 1: So it's oh yeah, yeah, it's doubly damming.
Speaker 6: And male slap the green Goblin's hand.
Speaker 1: I'm excited for a new Raimi.
Speaker 6: Yeah, from my mouth to God's ear, I hope yeah.
Speaker 4: That's what, honest to God, that's what I hope too.
Speaker 4: I hope that they give him the opportunity to do
Speaker 4: a fourth movie the right way and just do it,
Speaker 4: like who cares at this point, Like people were clearly
Speaker 4: into Toby maguire coming back as Spider Man. It wasn't
Speaker 4: just us, like millennials and Gen xers, like everybody was
Speaker 4: into it. So I just don't I I again, I
Speaker 4: don't know why Sony doesn't want to play ball with Marvel, Like,
Speaker 4: shut the fuck up, give him the fucking rights and
Speaker 4: let's just be done with it. You guys suck at
Speaker 4: making Spider Man movies. You just do because you can't
Speaker 4: even make Spider Man movies. That's why they suck at
Speaker 4: making Spider Man movies, because they have yet to actually
Speaker 4: make a motherfucking Spider Man movie. They've just been like, well,
Speaker 4: it's likeingingly related, and we'll mention Spider Man's name, like wow,
Speaker 4: that's fun. Does that embarrass you as much as I'm
Speaker 4: embarrassed for you, because I'm embarrassed for Sony When they're like, hah,
Speaker 4: spider Man, get it, and it's like, well, we know
Speaker 4: we've heard of Spider Man, like we're aware of Spider Man,
Speaker 4: very clearly aware of Spider Man. Thank you?
Speaker 6: Are you aware of my boyfriend Spider Man? He lives
Speaker 6: in Canada, so bizarre to me. All right, let's wrap
Speaker 6: up this discussion of craving the Hunter by going around
Speaker 6: the room here father alone, Where can people hear more
Speaker 6: of you?
Speaker 1: Sir?
Speaker 2: Go over to weirding Way Media and where you'll find
Speaker 2: my show Midnight Viewing, where these two gentlemen are co
Speaker 2: hosts for our horror anthology podcast. We're taking a look
Speaker 2: at Tales from the Dark Side. But Midnight Viewing is also.
Speaker 1: A current show.
Speaker 2: I do a weekly round up show, and there's also
Speaker 2: a show about anthology movies. In general, that's all under
Speaker 2: the midnight viewing banner. I suggest you all't go there.
Speaker 6: Father alone almost puts me to shame with the amount
Speaker 6: of work that he does, which is heads and tails
Speaker 6: above what Chris Stashy does, which is clearly next to nothing. Chris,
Speaker 6: tell the fine people what you're working on these days?
Speaker 4: Essentially nothing. I've been working on myself for the last
Speaker 4: five months, and I occasionally post audio diversions over at
Speaker 4: Weirdingwaymedia dot com, where you're probably listening to this, and
Speaker 4: if you aren't listening to it there, go to Weirdingwaymedia
Speaker 4: dot com and check out the twenty plus shows that
Speaker 4: we have on the network, including The Projection Booth, Midnight Viewing, Eighties,
Speaker 4: TV Ladies, whole host of things that you can find
Speaker 4: overt Weirdingwaymedia dot com.
Speaker 6: What about you, Mike, Chris, you're being very falsely modest.
Speaker 6: Chris works on a ton of stuff, usually with me,
Speaker 6: sometimes with Father m alone, and sometimes on his own
Speaker 6: or with other folks. You can always check out some
Speaker 6: of the things that we work on, such as The
Speaker 6: Shabby Detective. You had another Columbo podcast, The Life and
Speaker 6: Times of Captain Barney Miller as well as Yes, the
Speaker 6: Projection booth where Chris occasionally shows up. We just had
Speaker 6: him recently on an episode about Kamikaze eighty nine, which
Speaker 6: was a lot of fun and I'm excited for people
Speaker 6: to hear that one. So yeah, come on over to
Speaker 6: Weirdowaymedia dot com to hear all that. Please make a donation.
Speaker 6: If you donate to my patreon or Chris's Patreon, you
Speaker 6: can get at the ten dollars leveling up. You can
Speaker 6: get copies of ranking on that I'm sorry, ranking on Bond,
Speaker 6: which is our monthly James Bond podcast, and Father Malone
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Speaker 6: Patreon as well, which is patreon dot com, slash fotherom
Speaker 6: alone perfect makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks guys,
Speaker 6: and thanks everybody for listening.