WEBVTT 1 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:30.199 Welcome back to our latest series of episodes of The 2 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:33.799 Path Went Chili. Today we're technically recording on New Year's Day, 3 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:36.840 so Ashley is on holiday. She's busy with her family, 4 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:39.200 so it'll just be Jules and I where I'll be 5 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:41.920 sharing the details about a case and she'll be giving 6 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:44.399 off her reactions. So, Jules, have you heard of the 7 00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:47.200 disappearance and death of Bobby Bisup? 8 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:51.119 The name isn't ringing a bell. But like before we recorded, 9 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:54.960 you said that I may I may be. I can't 10 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:59.479 even speak today. My memory might be jogged by the 11 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:01.759 details when you share them because it is a fairly 12 00:01:01.799 --> 00:01:02.520 recent case. 13 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:06.040 Well it's actually an older case though, but it has 14 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:09.319 popped up back into the news for very unexpected reasons. 15 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:11.400 This was a case that took place all the way 16 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.760 back in nineteen fifty eight, and Bobby Bissop was a 17 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:17.359 ten year old boy who was hearing impaired and went 18 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:20.280 missing while attending a summer camp at a Catholic camp 19 00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:23.400 in Colorado before some of his remains were found in 20 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:25.840 a wooded area about a year later, and at the 21 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:28.159 time they just assumed that he wandered off and died 22 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:30.959 of exposure and it pretty much faded from the spotlight 23 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:35.200 for several decades, but then in twenty nineteen, an investigated 24 00:01:35.239 --> 00:01:38.319 reporter named Kevin Vaughan who worked for the Denver based 25 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:42.439 TV station KUSA, was doing a deep dive into a 26 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:46.560 cover up and a sexual abuse scandal involving Catholic priests 27 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:50.280 and children and wound up having an unexpected tie into 28 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:53.840 Bobby Bisop's disappearance. And then in twenty twenty one, this 29 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:56.680 case went in a very unexpected direction when a man 30 00:01:56.719 --> 00:01:59.799 came forward with a human skull belonging to a child 31 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:02.480 that he said had been in the possession of his father. 32 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:05.599 And there's been speculation that this skull might have belonged 33 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:08.319 to Bobby Bissum. And I don't know if you were recalled, 34 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:11.240 but in twenty twenty one, this story was everywhere for 35 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:14.159 a while, it was all over social media just because 36 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:16.199 of how unusual it is. So do you have any 37 00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:18.479 recollection of hearing about this four years ago? 38 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:21.800 Yeah, you were right when you gave me the details. 39 00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:25.439 It definitely jogged my memory. And how can you not 40 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:30.599 remember the details of somebody having a child's skull in 41 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:34.280 their possession. And then the really dark history of the 42 00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:39.080 sexual abuse at the hands of these priests. It's really 43 00:02:39.159 --> 00:02:40.919 memorable in the darkest of ways. 44 00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:45.360 It is. Yeah, and I started researching it because, as 45 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:48.080 you can imagine, I started getting requests to cover it 46 00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:50.599 on the trail went cold. And you look back through 47 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:53.479 the newspaper articles and all the original coverages back from 48 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:56.680 nineteen fifty eight nineteen fifty nine, and there's no reason 49 00:02:56.680 --> 00:02:58.879 to believe that this is anything more than a tragic 50 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:02.080 story of a boy who wandered off and died of exposure. 51 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:04.560 At the time, there was no suspicion of foul play. 52 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.479 But back in the nineteen fifties, there wasn't as much 53 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:10.759 public knowledge about the cover up of sexual abuse from 54 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:14.800 priests in the Catholic Church of Children, so nobody really 55 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:17.919 suspected that anything bad happened. But of course, once they 56 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:20.879 started doing this deep dive several decades later and they 57 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:25.120 found out some new information about Bobby Bisop's disappearance, everyone 58 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:27.360 started looking at this in a different light. And once 59 00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:31.560 they uncovered this skull, everyone was going, WTF, what actually 60 00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:34.719 happened here? And it became one of the weirdest mysteries 61 00:03:34.759 --> 00:03:35.479 of the modern era. 62 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:40.039 It's amazing how our perspectives can change with the advantage 63 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:42.479 of time, where you can step back and we have 64 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:46.560 so much more information, whereas one of the major variables 65 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:49.400 in this case was the sexual abuse at the hands 66 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:53.000 of the Catholic priests. But when you don't have that information, 67 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:55.479 you're going to look at the case in an entirely 68 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:58.639 different way because you're going to assume that it's most 69 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:02.120 likely that be wandered off and you know, to come 70 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:06.080 to the elements. But when you know that there's children 71 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:09.840 that are being preyed upon by these priests and Bobby 72 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:12.680 could have potentially been one of them, then you look 73 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:15.560 at it in a whole new light. So that is 74 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:19.240 the advantage when time passes and we gather more information 75 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:22.439 and then we have the ability or investigators have the 76 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:25.879 ability to go and revisit these cases and to look 77 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:28.120 at them with this new information in a fresh set 78 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:28.600 of eyes. 79 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:32.199 Yeah, this whole story is a complete reversal from the 80 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:34.600 type of cases we usually do. Like we've covered a 81 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:37.720 number of mysteries where someone's death was ruled to be 82 00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:40.639 an accident or a suicide and the authorities closed the 83 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:42.959 case they didn't think there was any foul play involved. 84 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:46.040 But the victim's family felt differently and kept trying to 85 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.360 keep the case in the spotlight and trying to get 86 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:51.600 the authorities to reopen the case. But here the complete 87 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:54.519 opposite happened, because, as we're going to talk about, Bobby's 88 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:56.759 parents at the time did not think that there was 89 00:04:56.839 --> 00:05:00.839 anything suspicious about the way he died, accepted that it 90 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:03.319 was nothing more than a tragic accident, went on living 91 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:06.319 the rest of their lives, and then passed away. And 92 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:09.120 now many years later, people are now looking at the 93 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:11.560 case at a different light and are now thinking, nearly 94 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:14.319 seventy years after the fact, that hmm, maybe foul play 95 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:18.040 did take place after all. So, like I said, this 96 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:20.480 took place all the way back in nineteen fifty eight 97 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:24.879 in Colorado. Bobby Bisop was the only child of Joseph 98 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:28.519 and Connie Bissop. His father, Joseph, was a master sergeant 99 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:31.199 in the United States Air Force who was stationed in 100 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:34.680 California when Bobby was born, so he was actually born 101 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:38.439 on an Air Force base, but they eventually transferred to Colorado, 102 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:41.360 and at this particular point, Joseph is now stationed at 103 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:44.040 Lowry Air Force Base, while Connie is a stay at 104 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:48.439 home Mump and Bobby sadly had been completely deaf since 105 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:51.519 birth nearly He was now, at this particular point, a 106 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:54.800 fifth grade student at a school for children with disabilities, 107 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:57.439 and he did wear a hearing aid, but he could 108 00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:00.319 still barely hear it all and had difficulties speaking King, 109 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:03.680 so he pretty much had to communicate with sign language 110 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:07.199 and was also an accomplished slip reader. But Bobby was 111 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:10.360 described of still being a positive, upbeat boy and he 112 00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:14.199 loved to go to a destination called Camp Saint Malo, 113 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:17.439 which was a Catholic boy summer camp located in Boulders 114 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:21.040 County near the town of ST's Park. And as a 115 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:23.240 side note, if you never heard of SD's Park, this 116 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:26.199 place is kind of famous because it has the Stanley 117 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:29.800 Hotel there, which is the hotel that Stephen King stayed 118 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:33.040 at when he wrote his classic novel The Shining. And 119 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:34.839 as a side note, when I went to the True 120 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:38.600 Crime Podcast Festival in Denver in twenty twenty four, I 121 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:41.680 decided to take a side trip to SD's Park and 122 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:44.199 went to the Stanley Hotel because they do a full 123 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:47.199 fledged Shining tour and have some hotel rooms there that 124 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:49.560 are made up to look like the hotel rooms in 125 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:53.759 Stanley Kubrick's movies. So EST's Park is a very beautiful 126 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:56.480 mountainside town and it's not the place you would expect 127 00:06:56.519 --> 00:06:59.600 that a scandal would be taking place involving the disappearance 128 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:01.079 in death of a ten year old boy. 129 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:04.279 It's such an interesting side note that it's the same 130 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:07.519 place that Stephen king stave and the fact that they 131 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:11.800 have these tours doesn't surprise me, because why not continue 132 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:15.040 to capitalize on one of the most iconic horror movies 133 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:18.279 ever made. So I totally get that, but that is 134 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:21.800 strange aside, And like you said, it's not somewhere that 135 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:24.399 you would think that something like this would happen. But 136 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:28.040 how many true crime cases open with not in a 137 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:31.000 town like ours. We left our doors unlocked. It's almost 138 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:32.079 a true crime trope. 139 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:35.279 That's pretty much it. Yeah, because I don't think there 140 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:37.839 was any history of violent crime in this town at 141 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:40.800 the time, and like I mentioned, nobody expected anything bad 142 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:44.040 happen to Bobby in the nineteen fifties. It's still kind 143 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:47.040 of a landmark because even though Camp Saint Malo has 144 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:50.480 since closed down, it had a chapel on the property 145 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:54.000 known as the Saint Catherine of Siana Chapel, which rests 146 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:56.600 on a large rock formation and has since become known 147 00:07:56.639 --> 00:07:59.319 as the Chapel on the Rock and is pretty much 148 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:02.920 a still a major tourist attraction, and in the nineteen 149 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:06.079 eighties they actually turned it into a retreat and conference 150 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:08.759 center and it was visited by none other than Pope 151 00:08:08.839 --> 00:08:11.240 John Paul the Second. So this is a town that 152 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:12.519 has a lot of history to it. 153 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:15.480 Yeah, no kidding. And one thing I wanted to mention 154 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:19.560 is it seems really progressive for nineteen fifty eight that 155 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:22.600 Bobby had the ability to go to a school for 156 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:26.480 differently abled children or for those who were hearing impaired. 157 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:29.399 I can't imagine that there would have been that many 158 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:32.799 schools because the approach to learning back then seemed to 159 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:35.000 be like a one size fits all and if you 160 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.360 don't fit into this very narrow paradigm of like how 161 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:42.759 we view a student should be or how learning should happen, 162 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:45.879 then you were kind of left to fend for yourself. 163 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:49.360 Yeah, like Bobby got pretty much the best care you 164 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:51.960 could hope for for a hearing impaired boy during the 165 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:55.559 nineteen fifties. And what is especially tragic about this story 166 00:08:55.639 --> 00:08:58.000 is that at the time Bobby went missing, he had 167 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:00.720 been attending Camp Saint Malo for a year. They kind 168 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:03.759 of divided it up into like one week sessions, and 169 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:06.840 he had already gone to three weekly sessions, and by 170 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:09.600 all accounts, he really loved it there, from what he 171 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.960 told to his parents writing in letters, saying that they 172 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:15.240 always treated him very nicely, that he got a lot 173 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:18.320 of support there. So in retrospect, you can understand why 174 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:22.399 his parents never thought that anything suspicious happened, because everything 175 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:25.519 that Bobby was communicating to them in his letters made 176 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:27.600 it sound like he was having a great time there, 177 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:29.919 so you would never think that anyone was trying to 178 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:31.080 take advantage of them. 179 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:33.320 I mean, I guess you could look at it like, 180 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:37.919 if they're sending letters to their families and there's the 181 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:41.200 potential that we know that they're sexual abuse from the 182 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:45.600 Catholic priests. So if you know that you're abusing a 183 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:49.200 child and those children are going to be writing letters home, 184 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:52.480 then I would think that maybe they would read those 185 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:56.559 letters before they were spent, so that the children would 186 00:09:56.600 --> 00:09:59.159 have to either edit it or send home a specific 187 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:02.000 type of a tone so that it might cover that up. 188 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:03.919 But the one thing that would kind of fly in 189 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:06.559 the face of that is that it's not like this 190 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:09.200 was just his first time going to the camp. He'd 191 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:14.240 been going previously, and so when he gets home, if 192 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:17.720 he felt safe to speak to us, to sign with 193 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:21.039 his parents about this, because we know in the cases 194 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:25.120 of sexual abuse by Catholic priests, it can take those 195 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:28.399 who have been children at the time, like twenty to 196 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:31.679 twenty five years to come forward with their stories. So 197 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:36.360 I can't assume that if that was happening that we 198 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:39.320 would have necessarily seen all the telltale signs, or that 199 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:41.200 he would have spoken to his parents about that. 200 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:44.840 Yeah, and even if it was happening, even if he 201 00:10:44.919 --> 00:10:47.399 was given off hints, maybe his parents just didn't pick 202 00:10:47.480 --> 00:10:49.639 up on it because it was just a different mindset 203 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:52.080 back then where parents are never going to suspect a 204 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:55.159 priest of harming their children. But I am inclined to 205 00:10:55.159 --> 00:10:58.639 think that nothing happened to Bobby during his previous sessions, 206 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:00.519 and at that it's something did happen to it. It 207 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:04.559 probably took place during his most recent session in August 208 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:08.759 of nineteen fifty eight, So it was August fifteenth when 209 00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:12.279 Bobby went fishing at Cabin Creek, And there are many 210 00:11:12.279 --> 00:11:15.480 different versions of how Bobby disappeared, but this was the 211 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:17.600 official one that I'm going to share now that was 212 00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:21.639 published in news accounts back in nineteen fifty eight. But 213 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:24.240 the story was that he was fishing at Cabin Creek. 214 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:26.159 He was about a few hundred yards away from the 215 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:29.879 main lodge, and at around six pm, one of the councilors, 216 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:33.080 Terry Cowan, said that he saw Bobby fishing there with 217 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:36.000 an ice cream carton full of worms, and he pointed 218 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:38.240 at his watch to indicate that it was nearly time 219 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:40.960 for dinner, so he needed to gather up his things 220 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:43.039 and return to the camp to visit the mess hall. 221 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.080 And Bobby then nodded a Cowan to acknowledge that he 222 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:49.720 understood him. But the story goes that after Cowan walked away, 223 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:53.799 Bobby soon banished without a trace. An hour passed and 224 00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:56.240 Bobby had still not returned to the mess hall for supper, 225 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.840 so the councilor started searching for them. It's been reported 226 00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:03.080 that they found Bobby's fishing pole and a carton of worms, 227 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:05.799 but there are differing counts from different sources about where 228 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:07.879 they found it. One of them said that it was 229 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:10.080 on a hillside near the camp, and there was another 230 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:12.679 account that said it was a full half mile away. 231 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.000 But they checked the creek, it was only a foot deep. 232 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:18.360 So they found it very unlikely that Bobby could have 233 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:21.240 fallen in and drowned, because otherwise they could have found him. 234 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:24.679 So they decided to launch a major search effort for him, 235 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:27.480 and it would involve the United States Forest Service, the 236 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:32.039 Boulder County Sheriff's office, and because Bobby's father, Joseph, was 237 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:34.320 a station with the Air Force, they got two hundred 238 00:12:34.360 --> 00:12:38.039 airmen from Lowry Air Force Base to search the surrounding 239 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:40.919 area and the mountains because it was right next to 240 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:44.600 Rocky Mountain National Park. But unfortunately, they just had trouble 241 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:45.799 finding any trace of them. 242 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:50.720 That's heartbreaking, and it's a case where there was so 243 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:54.919 many resources deployed to look for Bobby, and it's just 244 00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:57.559 it shows how difficult it is when you're in an 245 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:01.639 area where there can be dense brush or canopy of trees, 246 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:05.960 any of that can severely impair search efforts, whether by 247 00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:09.399 air or by land. And that's clearly what happened here. 248 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:12.840 Oh yeah, like we've done many other cases on this 249 00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:15.600 podcast where there are major search efforts for a missing 250 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:19.080 person and then it's only years later when they stumble 251 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:22.480 across the victims remains by pure chance, and you realize 252 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:24.639 that they were probably in the area all along, but 253 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:27.639 the search efforts failed to miss them. And this was 254 00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:31.600 particularly devastating for the Bisops because Bobby was her only child, 255 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:34.240 and it's been reported that his mother was so devastated 256 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:37.360 that she became seriously ill and had to be placed 257 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:41.120 under doctor's care. They got a fairly promising lead about 258 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:43.360 a week later when there were sightings of a boy 259 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:46.919 in SD's Park who had gone into a shop and 260 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:49.559 the witnesses said that he kept pointing to his mouth 261 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:52.600 in his ears and seemed to have trouble communicating, and 262 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:55.039 they're thinking, how many hearing impaired boys are going to 263 00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:57.000 be there, So they thought there was a good chance 264 00:13:57.080 --> 00:14:00.559 that this was Bobby, and they started wondering that maybe 265 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:03.120 Bobby was just worried that he was going to get 266 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:05.679 into trouble because he had not come back to the 267 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:07.840 mess hall in time for supper, So they were hoping 268 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:10.360 that he had run away and was hiding out and 269 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:12.440 was just not coming forward because he thought he was 270 00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:15.480 going to get in trouble, so his father actually arranged 271 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:17.679 for a pilot to fly over the camp and drop 272 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:21.960 thousands of leaflets containing this message quote mother and father 273 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:24.720 love you. We need you. Mother is sick, she needs 274 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:27.559 you at home. We love you end quote. So it's 275 00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:29.480 so heartbreaking to hear that, because I think they were 276 00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:32.000 holding out hope that Bobby was still alive and that 277 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:34.120 if he got one of these leaflets he would finally 278 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:37.200 come forward and return to the camp on his own. 279 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:41.440 It always makes me wonder about those witness statements when 280 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:44.639 you get a statement like that and it's like, did 281 00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:50.000 you actually see that, or is somehow hearing about this 282 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:55.159 lost boy influencing your perception of a past event, and 283 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:59.519 so you so badly want to help, but in doing so, 284 00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:03.159 your gift having incorrect or wrong information to law enforcement. 285 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:06.480 Because how likely is it that some other boy who's 286 00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:08.799 hearing impaired is going to come in all on his 287 00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:11.840 own and start pointing to his mouth in his ears. 288 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:15.919 It just seems like there's a higher probability that that 289 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:18.159 was not an accurate sighting. 290 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:21.679 Well, it would actually turn out that a man from 291 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:24.639 Illinois came forward who claimed that he and his family 292 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:27.320 were visiting SD's Park at that time, and he had 293 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:30.240 his own eleven year old son who was also hearing 294 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:33.480 impaired and become separated from him while they were in town. 295 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:37.120 So in retrospect, it seemed very likely that the witness 296 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:39.879 sightings were accurate. But it was a completely different eleven 297 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:43.159 year old boy with the same disability, and unfortunately he 298 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.039 was mistook for Bobby. And we now know that this 299 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.519 was a mistake in sighting and it was not actually him. 300 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:51.720 Well that's incredible because usually when it's an eyewitness sighting, 301 00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:54.559 it's just wrong. But that is why we speak in 302 00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:56.639 probabilities and not an absolutes. 303 00:15:57.559 --> 00:15:59.559 Yeah, this is one of those rare cases where they 304 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.720 actually explained the sightings that sound incredible, and you knew 305 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:04.960 for certain that, oh, they didn't actually see the victim. 306 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:08.000 They just, by pure chance, happened to see another boy 307 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:11.200 who was exactly like him. So, sadly the search effort 308 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:13.519 came to an end. They have found were unable to 309 00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:16.000 find any trace of Bobby, but his father did not 310 00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:18.080 give up. Over the course of the next year, he 311 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:21.080 would return to the area to perform his own independent 312 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:25.039 searches for Bobby at the camp and the surrounding wooded 313 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:28.320 areas and the surrounding mountains, but unfortunately he was unable 314 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:31.200 to find anything. It would be in almost an entire 315 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:34.120 year before we got some sort of resolution because on 316 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:38.039 July third, nineteen fifty nine, tre of councilors from Camp 317 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.240 Saint Malo were taking a group of campers on a 318 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:44.399 hike through the adjacent Rocky Mountain National Park, and one 319 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:47.320 of the councilors was a young man named Neil Hewitt. 320 00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:49.559 And it was pretty much state or procedure for a 321 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:52.279 lot of the counselors there to be seminary students who 322 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:55.679 were training to become priests, and that's exactly what would 323 00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:57.960 happen to Hewitt. He would become a priest a couple 324 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:00.759 of years later, and he claimed that he was looking 325 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.200 down ravine and he noticed what appeared to be a 326 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:06.440 scrap of clothing and a bone which was concealed beneath 327 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:09.400 some heavy underbrush. So he took the bone in the 328 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:12.319 clothing and brought it back to the camp's director, a 329 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:17.039 priest named Reverend Richard Heaster, and he subsequently contacted the 330 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:20.319 Rocky Mountain National Park rangers and they decided to launch 331 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:24.759 another search effort on that mountain, and sure enough, they 332 00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:27.839 soon found some additional clothing scraps which seemed to match 333 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:31.039 the description of what Bobby was last seen wearing. And 334 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:34.559 they also found some additional human remains, including a scapula, 335 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:39.359 a clavical, a humorous, several vertebra, some vertebral discs, and 336 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:42.240 a number of ribs. And they were not able to 337 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:45.920 find a skull. And obviously they could not check for 338 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:49.039 Bobby's dental records, and because this was nineteen fifty nine, 339 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:52.319 they could not do DNA testing. But they also happened 340 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:55.960 to find a Zenith hearing aid battery case which would 341 00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:58.480 match the one that Bobby often carried for his own 342 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:02.559 hearing aid. Well, even though they cannot positively identifying the 343 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:05.160 remains as belonging to Bobby, they figured, well, what are 344 00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:07.559 the odds that another hearing aid case is going to 345 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.799 be found next to these skelt remains. So they felt 346 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:13.519 comfortable saying that even though we can't use dental records 347 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:16.400 and they couldn't use DNA, that they were positively certain 348 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:18.400 that these remains did belong to Bobby. 349 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:22.759 I think that's a pretty fair assessment. Especially when you 350 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.079 look at the different reports for missing children in the area, 351 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.039 how many of them were hearing impaired. I'm sure it's 352 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:32.559 a pretty small list, so there's a strong likelihood that 353 00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:37.200 it would be Bobby. But question about Hewett's sighting of 354 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:40.680 this bone and the scraps of clothing. How deep a 355 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:42.039 ravine was this do you know? 356 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:45.880 We don't have that information, But as we're going to 357 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:48.640 talk about, Neil Hewitt is going to be a very 358 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:52.160 suspicious character in this story. So many years later people 359 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:54.599 have started to speculate that he didn't just happen to 360 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:57.039 see these bones in the ravine, that he may have 361 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:01.200 conveniently found them and turned them in because they wanted 362 00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:04.079 to have some sort of resolution in Bobby's case and 363 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:06.599 ensure that people would stop coming into the area to 364 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:07.279 search for him. 365 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:10.839 That was my gut feeling, because looking down a ravine, 366 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.680 as somebody who's done a lot of hiking, I can't 367 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:16.279 imagine that I would be able to spot a bone 368 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:19.759 sticking up and just like a piece of fabric amidst 369 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.920 all the trees and all the brush and everything. I mean, 370 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:26.119 it really does depend on what the ravine landscape was like, 371 00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:29.079 and if it was pretty far away, and I mean 372 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:31.400 being a ravine, it's going to be a certain depth. 373 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:34.400 It would be really hard to spot that. So it 374 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:39.400 seems pretty unlikely that somebody just would happen to catch 375 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:41.200 it in their eye and then be like, Oh, let 376 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:43.400 me go down this ravine and check it out. 377 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:46.720 Yeah, because we had a major search effort taking place 378 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:49.319 the previous year, they were probably in that same area 379 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.519 and no one stumbled across these remains. And we'll talk 380 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:54.920 more about this later, but my personal theory was that 381 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:58.119 because Bobby's father, Joseph, kept coming back to the area 382 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:01.480 to perform his own independent search, I'm thinking that if 383 00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:03.960 there was some sort of cover up and foul play 384 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:06.440 took place, that maybe the people at the camp were thinking, 385 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:09.759 if he doesn't find something, then his father is just 386 00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:12.160 going to keep coming over and over again. But if 387 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.920 we can plant some of the remains here and pretend 388 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:17.480 that we discovered them, then maybe there will be closure 389 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:20.119 here and Bobby's family will accept that he wandered off 390 00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:23.640 and died of died of exposure, and we can finally 391 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:24.839 close this case for good. 392 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:28.319 So when we're talking about these camp counselors, you said 393 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:31.559 that most of them are seminary students, so they would 394 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:37.200 be what between like the ages of eighteen and will 395 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:40.000 depend on the twenties and mid twenties. I mean, unless 396 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:42.920 they're if they were doing a PhD in theology, they 397 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:45.359 could be like twenty six years old or something if 398 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:47.279 they were just coming to the end of their PhD 399 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:50.319 and they did it straight from like you know, bachelors 400 00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:54.559 to Masters to PhD. So yeah, they could be anywhere 401 00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:58.400