1 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:14,919 Speaker 1: This is a studio both and production. As you know, 2 00:00:15,119 --> 00:00:19,679 we are celebrating my tenth year in podcasting and we're 3 00:00:19,679 --> 00:00:22,879 capping that celebration off with a three day event here 4 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,160 in the Berkshires over the weekend of September twenty fifth. 5 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,679 There will be studio sessions, live shows, a Bravo town hall, 6 00:00:30,879 --> 00:00:35,520 Berkshire activities like foraging, wine tasting, museum visits and more, 7 00:00:35,679 --> 00:00:38,439 and tons of special guests. Will do the Karen and 8 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,039 Ellen Letters Live starring Amanda Jacobson from Wine and Crime, 9 00:00:42,359 --> 00:00:47,079 Tawny plattis famous renowned voice actress, and Chris Brayton from 10 00:00:47,079 --> 00:00:51,159 the More Gooder Than podcast. I'll be doing a very special, 11 00:00:51,359 --> 00:00:56,000 first time ever live show of the Pact with special 12 00:00:56,039 --> 00:00:59,600 guest Patrick Hines from True Crime Obsessed. We'll do a 13 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:04,959 panel discussion on Unsafe Spaces featuring me, Kaz, Charlie Wirrel 14 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,359 from Crime Lines, and Justin and Aaron from Generation Why. 15 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,439 There will even be a live episode of Our Americana 16 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:17,599 and a very cool Playlist by TCB episode featuring me 17 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,480 and the entire research team. Guests, we'll get to check 18 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,480 out my new speakeasy, the green Room, tour the studio 19 00:01:23,799 --> 00:01:27,040 and get elbow deep in the research process. This is 20 00:01:27,079 --> 00:01:29,159 a once in a lifetime event where you'll get to 21 00:01:29,439 --> 00:01:33,439 enjoy the berkshers, share fun activities with the podcast hosts 22 00:01:33,439 --> 00:01:37,239 you love the most, and really dig into podcasting and 23 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,799 all the shows I have produced along with my friends. 24 00:01:41,159 --> 00:01:43,560 Book your tickets today by clicking the link in the 25 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,319 show notes. And if that doesn't work for you, why 26 00:01:46,359 --> 00:01:50,200 don't you think about? If not now when? For example, 27 00:01:50,599 --> 00:01:54,799 we are going to the Galapagos Islands January eleventh through seventeenth. 28 00:01:54,959 --> 00:01:57,599 Haven't you always wanted to go? And if not now, 29 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,040 when will you go? And wouldn't you go during the 30 00:02:01,079 --> 00:02:04,040 winter here in the States to escape to the warmth 31 00:02:04,519 --> 00:02:08,719 with like minded new friends who love true crime bullshit 32 00:02:08,759 --> 00:02:11,879 as much as you do, but also love the experience 33 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,199 of travel, seeing animals and getting away from it all. 34 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,080 These Trova trips have made me lifelong friends. They are 35 00:02:19,159 --> 00:02:21,879 such a great way to meet new people, get out 36 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,680 of your world and shake things up. And like I said, 37 00:02:25,879 --> 00:02:27,759 if you're not going to go to the Galopagos now, 38 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,879 will you ever? Book your trip today by clicking the 39 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,840 link in the show notes, And now here's the show. 40 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,199 If Our Americana was my entryway into podcasting. Then the 41 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,360 Karen and Ellen letters were my introduction into actual investigations. 42 00:02:45,759 --> 00:02:48,400 It's where my curiosity got the best of me, and 43 00:02:48,439 --> 00:02:51,319 where the story became bigger than words on a page, 44 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,080 where in the absence of an ending, I needed to 45 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:59,919 find one. Which is funny now because that particular ending 46 00:03:00,719 --> 00:03:03,800 and what it's meant to me has become so fluid 47 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,120 that it's barely an ending at all. Now there's this 48 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,159 book I read and reread every five to ten years 49 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,280 or so, Sexing the Cherry by Jeanette Winterson. I first 50 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,639 read it when I was about twenty, shortly after i'd 51 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,879 moved to San Francisco and come out of the closet, 52 00:03:19,039 --> 00:03:22,120 when I began desperately searching for a love and stability 53 00:03:22,159 --> 00:03:24,639 and acceptance that I never felt like i'd had prior. 54 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,240 The book is simultaneously both about the persistence of and 55 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,680 the absence of time, the recurrence of life, the longevity 56 00:03:33,719 --> 00:03:38,120 of storytelling, the reincarnation of memory and dreams. When I 57 00:03:38,159 --> 00:03:41,879 was younger and more idealistic, it represented the persistence of 58 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,240 love in many ways. It still does, but what it 59 00:03:45,319 --> 00:03:47,879 means to me in my life changes with every year 60 00:03:47,919 --> 00:03:50,639 and every read. And that's what the Karen and Ellen 61 00:03:50,759 --> 00:03:53,599 Letters have been for me, a sort of guide post, 62 00:03:54,039 --> 00:03:56,479 or a penciled height on a door frame that belongs 63 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,639 to someone else. Now. When I first received the Karen 64 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,039 and Ellen Letters, a hand bound book of correspondence between 65 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,680 two teenage girls and their landlord, it was more of 66 00:04:05,719 --> 00:04:08,879 a party trick than anything else, something we'd pull out 67 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,000 after a few bottles of wine, pass around reading and 68 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,159 laughing late at night. The mystery of the letters was 69 00:04:15,199 --> 00:04:18,279 ever present, but their value was in the content of 70 00:04:18,319 --> 00:04:21,759 the letters themselves, and for years of reading those letters 71 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,439 amongst different groups of people, that would rarely change other 72 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,680 than a few moments of curiosity. Although it was a 73 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,600 mystery that nagged at me, but also one I never 74 00:04:31,639 --> 00:04:35,279 thought I was truly capable of solving. I also often 75 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,120 wondered if it was best not knowing what was real 76 00:04:38,759 --> 00:04:43,120 and what wasn't. In late twenty sixteen, I decided to 77 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,759 turn the letters into a podcast, and twelve years after 78 00:04:46,879 --> 00:04:50,160 receiving those letters, I found that their value was now 79 00:04:50,199 --> 00:04:53,920 in the mystery. The story was both our own curiosity 80 00:04:53,959 --> 00:04:57,199 about who these people were and how they came to collide, 81 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,959 and the mystery of what was it was real, what wasn't, 82 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:07,759 and what was the gray in between. So Sarah Stapleton, 83 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,240 who plays Karen in the podcast, and I began actually 84 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:16,199 investigating and through which learning how to investigate those letters, 85 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,480 their authentication and who those people were, if they were 86 00:05:20,519 --> 00:05:24,560 at all. And investigating the Karen and Ellen letters introduced 87 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:30,120 me to newspapers, dot com, Spokio, the Internet archives and 88 00:05:30,199 --> 00:05:33,399 all these other tools that I use now daily in 89 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,600 my investigation into Keys and other podcasts. It all came 90 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:42,040 from my unending curiosity surrounding the mystery of Karen and Ellen, 91 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,800 from my need to know and my need for an ending. 92 00:05:46,879 --> 00:05:49,600 Little did I know what a rabbit hole that curiosity 93 00:05:49,639 --> 00:05:53,040 would lead me down, and like sexing the cherry, the 94 00:05:53,079 --> 00:05:56,160 more time I spent with Karen and Ellen, the more 95 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,600 I saw them holistically from different perspectives, with different curureuriosity 96 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,920 that led to new questions and varying levels of understanding. 97 00:06:05,959 --> 00:06:11,800 I was obsessed, but also became endeared. In podcasting, we 98 00:06:11,879 --> 00:06:16,160 talk a lot about parasocial relationships, and if we're being honest, 99 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,920 they start with us and our subjects. I came to 100 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,639 know and care for these girls, these women who were 101 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,560 ten years older than me, but forever trapped in their 102 00:06:26,639 --> 00:06:29,480 late teens. I felt like I needed to protect them 103 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:34,319 but also know them. At the time, I didn't realize 104 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:38,000 how often contrasting those two needs can be. It's something 105 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,839 I've learned and lived in much more significantly with the 106 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,720 Keys investigation, and specifically Sarah and Tammy. The more I 107 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,360 want to know them, the more I want to protect 108 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,079 them from me and everyone else who wants to know them. 109 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,759 I also came to learn what a Pandora's box asking 110 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,759 simple questions aloud can be. People I didn't know began 111 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,680 in investigating Karen and Ellen. They wanted the same answers 112 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,360 I did. Some were curious, some were reckless, and they 113 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,920 were a curiosity and recklessness that I owoke inside them. 114 00:07:12,279 --> 00:07:15,720 One I couldn't control, one I couldn't guide through my 115 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,680 own ideas of ethics, what was right and wrong. People 116 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:24,480 I couldn't protect Karen and Ellen from. I became afraid 117 00:07:24,519 --> 00:07:29,120 of the damage my investigation could do, and again, little 118 00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:31,759 did I know then how amplified that would become when 119 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,279 I made the decision, based on that very investigation, to 120 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,040 turn true crime bullshit into a deep dive investigation rather 121 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,399 than just a reporting of events. But with TCB, like 122 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,439 with the Karen and Ellen Letters, I needed an end. 123 00:07:47,439 --> 00:07:52,000 I needed to know everything no matter the cost. The 124 00:07:52,079 --> 00:07:54,439 price I paid for the Karen and Ellen Letters would 125 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:59,000 be minimal. No one got hurt, no one got exposed, 126 00:07:59,839 --> 00:08:02,000 and were able to still laugh at the joke that 127 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,639 was once the core of those letters, but also walk 128 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,439 away with the lessons in humanity that were their ultimate value. 129 00:08:09,879 --> 00:08:12,959 The epilogue of that podcast is to remember to always 130 00:08:12,959 --> 00:08:16,240 look deeper, to always see beyond what people want you 131 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:20,839 to see, to give everyone their humanity and grace, because 132 00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:23,360 if you don't, you never know when or how hard 133 00:08:23,399 --> 00:08:26,199 it will slap you in the face. Because when you don't, 134 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,000 you're often robbing yourself and your loved ones of their 135 00:08:29,079 --> 00:08:33,320 humanity and grace. Because those two girls who started as jokes, 136 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:36,320 as butts of the joke, they ended up reminding us 137 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,360 all of our own humanity and humility and both the 138 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,879 power and harm in storytelling because the person telling the 139 00:08:42,919 --> 00:08:46,320 story always has the most power. They define what the 140 00:08:46,399 --> 00:08:50,279 story is, who the characters are, and what the takeaways are. 141 00:08:50,759 --> 00:08:54,840 And while in creating and investigating that podcast and those letters, 142 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,759 I got to take the power away from Mark. The 143 00:08:57,799 --> 00:09:01,120 story now lives on through my per and if I've 144 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,120 learned anything over time, it's that perspective is both at 145 00:09:05,159 --> 00:09:10,080 once absent and persistent. These are the first two episodes 146 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,720 of The Karen and Ellen Letters, where my need to 147 00:09:12,759 --> 00:09:16,559 know everything truly manifested for the first time. It is 148 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,000 both a comedy and a mystery, a story of power 149 00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:25,360 and humanity. Look at two people through multiple lenses, but rarely, 150 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,519 if ever, their own, and like sexing the cherry, the 151 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,600 story changes and changes me every time I revisit it. 152 00:09:34,159 --> 00:09:38,039 These are the Karen and Ellen Letters, But first a 153 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,399 quick ad break. We've all had those nights, the one 154 00:09:41,399 --> 00:09:44,320 where you laugh until the sun comes up, where conversations 155 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,519 go places they've never gone before, and you walk away 156 00:09:47,519 --> 00:09:49,720 feeling closer to the people around you than you have 157 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:54,080 in years. That's psilocybin. It doesn't just open doors in 158 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,679 your mind, it opens them between people. This episode is 159 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,279 brought to you by Schedule thirty five, the most trusted 160 00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:04,039 name in psilocybin products. Whether you're microdosing for focus and 161 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,559 clarity or taking a full recreational dose to reconnect with life, 162 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:13,399 Schedule thirty five makes every experience, intentional, consistent, and precisely dosed. 163 00:10:13,639 --> 00:10:17,000 These aren't party drugs. They're connection tools for your mind, 164 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:22,039 your creativity, your relationships, and honestly, maybe even your soul. 165 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,919 I have been a very happy customer of Schedule thirty 166 00:10:24,919 --> 00:10:27,399 five for about a month now. During these summer months, 167 00:10:27,399 --> 00:10:30,679 I've been struggling to stay motivated, but I've been microdosing 168 00:10:30,759 --> 00:10:33,919 during the week, which has kept me on task, focused 169 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,960 and motivated. And every now and again, my friends and 170 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,320 I get together for what I call a macro doose, 171 00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:42,759 where we laugh, we tell stories, we giggle, and we 172 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,200 make great memories. I have really enjoyed Schedule thirty five, 173 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,200 and the dosage is so on point that there are 174 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,200 never any unwelcome surprises. Go to Schedule thirty five dot 175 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:57,720 co and use code TCBs for fifteen percent off your 176 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:03,639 first order. That's Schedule thirty five code TCBs for fifteen 177 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:04,399 percent off. 178 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,159 Speaker 2: Warning, listening to this podcast may cause un mitigating obsession 179 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,600 and cognitive dissonance. All names have been changed to protect 180 00:11:12,639 --> 00:11:15,759 the innocent, the insane, and everyone else in between. 181 00:11:23,759 --> 00:11:26,159 Speaker 1: It was the summer of two thousand and five at 182 00:11:26,159 --> 00:11:30,120 a Kinko's in downtown San Francisco. A woman named Susan 183 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,879 watched worn out pages as they slid through a photocopier, 184 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,759 like they had so many times before, and like they 185 00:11:37,799 --> 00:11:42,919 would so many times again. Just several blocks away, a 186 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,840 guy who somewhat resembles me now was turning twenty four. 187 00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:51,200 Hurricane Katrina had just devastated the Gulf Coast, and I 188 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:56,679 was devastated. I'd spent the previous week watching the city 189 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,399 I had just moved from the city I loved full 190 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:06,840 of some of my closest friends flooded, looted, destroyed, and ignored. 191 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,600 The night before my birthday, my boyfriend, best friend and 192 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,799 I sat in silence in a wine bar, occasionally choking 193 00:12:13,879 --> 00:12:18,320 up in conversation that existed merely to cull the conversation 194 00:12:18,519 --> 00:12:22,120 we were avoiding. At midnight, we chugged Beaujelais in front 195 00:12:22,159 --> 00:12:25,000 of a picture window that overlooked the San Francisco Bay 196 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,559 and out across to Oakland and Berkeley, and we wondered 197 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,519 where our friends were. They were okay. We tried to 198 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,679 find some bright spot. We looked for some reason to smile, 199 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,440 to laugh. Karen and Ellen always have a way of 200 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:46,759 finding you when you need them. The most. It's funny 201 00:12:46,799 --> 00:12:49,320 looking back now at how much not only my life 202 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,000 has changed since that fateful night, but also how I 203 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,399 view those letters, how a simple birthday gift would change 204 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:01,879 my life completely, how for years it would be about comedy, 205 00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:11,240 and then mystery, which became obsession, and now finally community 206 00:13:12,159 --> 00:13:18,080 and perspective and humanity. The many lives of these letters 207 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,600 have all had such distinct and different impacts on mine, 208 00:13:22,279 --> 00:13:25,360 and they've always come at just the right moments. Like 209 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,480 I said, Karen and Ellen always find you just when 210 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,679 you need them the most, and they always bring with 211 00:13:30,799 --> 00:13:34,919 them an ironic sense of wisdom and awareness and maybe 212 00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:40,799 just the right amount of cognitive dissonance. This is the 213 00:13:40,879 --> 00:14:03,559 Karen and Ellen Letters. It was the summer of nineteen 214 00:14:03,639 --> 00:14:07,919 eighty seven. The Simpsons made their first TV appearance, the 215 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,879 stock market crashed, and perhaps not coincidentally, Prozac made its 216 00:14:12,919 --> 00:14:18,600 American debut, And meanwhile, and Oakland, California, two teenage girls 217 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,200 were moving into their very first department. 218 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 3: July first, nineteen eighty seven. Dear Mark, when I signed 219 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,799 the lease last week, I pointed out the burned out 220 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,120 light bulb in the refrigerator. You said, if I replaced 221 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,519 it myself. I could deduct the cost from my next 222 00:14:34,519 --> 00:14:37,279 month's rent, along with any other small expenses that were 223 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,039 your responsibility. So I'm sending you this list of things 224 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,399 I plan will deduct from my August rent list. Number 225 00:14:44,399 --> 00:14:48,559 one one refrigerator light bulb two dollars two, oven light 226 00:14:48,559 --> 00:14:54,759 bulb two dollars. Three, shed padlock eight dollars four, telephone 227 00:14:54,799 --> 00:15:00,879 installation thirty seven dollars, HI telephone thirty six dollars. Telephone 228 00:15:00,879 --> 00:15:05,600 extension cord nine dollars. Seven, hangars for closets in bedrooms 229 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:12,039 twelve dollars. Eight extra front door keys uokayed six dollars nine, 230 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:20,519 fish food ten dollars ten al algicide five dollars eleven, garden. 231 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 4: Tools sixteen dollars twelve ice tray for freezer two dollars 232 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,440 thirteen cleaning stuff forty six dollars. 233 00:15:30,879 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 3: Karen. 234 00:15:38,679 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, I received a strange and 235 00:15:41,759 --> 00:15:46,200 life changing birthday present, a file folder full of photocopied 236 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,799 handwritten letters between two tenants and their landlord. I looked 237 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,879 a bit bewildered at the woman who handed me the present, 238 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,600 a woman named Susan, who I worked with at Ironically enough, 239 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,399 a law firm. She just smiled and said, trust me, 240 00:16:02,159 --> 00:16:06,399 you need these, and she was right in more ways 241 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,000 than one. Little did I know then that this folder 242 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,279 would lead to hours upon hours of hysterical laughter and 243 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,679 then a successful blog followed by a live performance. In 244 00:16:18,759 --> 00:16:23,720 an odd eleven year journey to authenticate those letters, I 245 00:16:23,799 --> 00:16:26,679 launched The Karen and Ellen Letters as a podcast back 246 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,320 in twenty seventeen, at which point not much progress had 247 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,080 been made in actually finding out the truth about the letters. 248 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,879 But as we recorded episode after episode, Sarah Stapleton, who 249 00:16:38,879 --> 00:16:42,519 plays Karen, became as obsessed with finding out the truth 250 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,399 as I was, and in real time, as the podcast 251 00:16:46,519 --> 00:16:50,240 was airing, we reopened my investigation into them and we 252 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,840 started finding answers, and those answers were often quite surprising 253 00:16:55,399 --> 00:17:00,919 and almost always a bit challenging. Throughout the podcast, you'll 254 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,879 hear the letters read by actors, and those letters are 255 00:17:03,919 --> 00:17:08,359 read as they're written, Typos, misspellings, poor grammar and all 256 00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:12,000 of which there is a lot. And as we go along, 257 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,960 I imagine you'll find yourself debating whether or not these could 258 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,599 be real, And it turns out the answer to that 259 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,640 question is as complicated as it is surprising. 260 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 3: July third, nineteen eighty seven, Dear Mark, List number two 261 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:34,960 one Bay Cablevision cable TV hookup fifty dollars. Two Bay 262 00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:39,079 Cablevision deposit fifty dollars. I will return this fifty dollars 263 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,680 to you when I leave. Three oven cleaner four dollars, 264 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:48,079 four bath rug thirty dollars, five electric broom vacuum cleaner 265 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:49,559 forty seven dollars. 266 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:56,599 Speaker 5: Karen, July ninth, nineteen eighty seven. Dear Karen, I have 267 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:01,440 received your lists number one and two of expenses you 268 00:18:01,519 --> 00:18:05,079 plan to deduct from your rent. You may deduct the 269 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,000 cost of the refrigerator and stove light bulbs, the oven 270 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,720 cleaner if the oven was dirty when you moved in, 271 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,759 and the keys and the padlock, provided that you return 272 00:18:15,839 --> 00:18:18,359 the padlock and it's keys to me when you leave. 273 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,720 I will not pay for the other expenses because I 274 00:18:21,799 --> 00:18:24,559 do not believe that they could normally be considered a 275 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:29,400 landlord responsibility. I think you have badly misunderstood me when 276 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,000 I said you could make small purchases and deduct them 277 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,160 from your rent if I was responsible for them in 278 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,119 the future. Before you buy anything that you plan to 279 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,000 deduct from your rent, I think you should call me 280 00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:44,279 first and get my okay, Mark. 281 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,759 Speaker 3: July thirteenth, nineteen eighty seven, Dear Mark, got your letter. 282 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:50,799 I'd like to work out a deal with you on 283 00:18:50,839 --> 00:18:54,279 my list of expenses. So I'll pay for the cable 284 00:18:54,279 --> 00:18:56,799 TV stuff if you will pay for the phone stuff, 285 00:18:56,839 --> 00:18:58,960 and I will pay for the cleaning stuff, if you 286 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,240 will pay for the vacuum, or we can just split 287 00:19:02,279 --> 00:19:04,799 the expenses in halfs I'd like to get this settled 288 00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:10,279 before Ellen arrives next month. Karen PS. A few days ago, 289 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,720 I was sitting on the deck when I stood up. 290 00:19:12,759 --> 00:19:14,759 I tore my jeans that got caught on a nail 291 00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:17,880 in your deck. The genes costed forty two dollars. I've 292 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,480 saved them so you can see them, okay. 293 00:19:21,759 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 6: July twenty first, nineteen eighty seven, Dear Mark, Hello, I'm 294 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,400 just writing to let you know how much I'm looking 295 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,160 forward to moving into my new home. Karen has described 296 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,240 the house to me, and it sounds well dreamy. I 297 00:19:36,279 --> 00:19:39,680 know we will get along famously. As you know, I'm 298 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,960 an artist and I'm majoring an interior design at U See. 299 00:19:43,319 --> 00:19:45,839 I'm looking forward to trying out some of my ideas. 300 00:19:45,839 --> 00:19:48,960 On my new home. I'm leaving money matters to Karen. 301 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,319 Being an artist, I'm not as practical as she is. 302 00:19:53,319 --> 00:19:56,279 I've been studying art in Washington this summer. One of 303 00:19:56,279 --> 00:19:58,880 the things I've learned here is a new oil transfer 304 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,599 process from marble Efe walls and ceilings. Of course, I'll 305 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,960 check with you before doing any work on my walls, 306 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,799 but I know you'll just love it. I have a 307 00:20:07,839 --> 00:20:10,720 gauzy picture in my mind of the house. Now I 308 00:20:10,759 --> 00:20:14,839 know that work imagination, and some financial assistance from you, 309 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,200 I can turn my new home into an enchanted place. 310 00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 5: Yours, Hellen, July sixteenth, nineteen eighty seven. Karen, your expectations 311 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,599 that I'm going to pay for such things as your 312 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,559 vacuum cleaner, your telephone, and now your clothes is totally 313 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,039 ridiculous and unrealistic on your part. I'm sorry to be 314 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,599 so blunt, but my last letter didn't seem to make 315 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,359 my point clear to you. My last letter was not 316 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,759 intended to be an author in part of the continuing negotiation, 317 00:20:47,319 --> 00:20:50,000 like haggling with a rug merchant at a Persian bazaar, 318 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,799 but rather a simple statement of what I will and 319 00:20:52,839 --> 00:20:56,319 will not pay for as far as your genes are concerned. 320 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,480 I can only advise you that you look more carefully 321 00:20:59,519 --> 00:21:01,960 in future where you sit. A deck is designed to 322 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,119 be walked upon, not sat upon. 323 00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 3: Sincerely, Mark, July twenty third, nineteen eighty seven. Dear Mark, 324 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,960 I didn't understand your letter. I don't want to buy 325 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,519 a rug in a Persian bazaar. I just want you 326 00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:18,160 to pay for the stuff I talked about in my 327 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,880 letters to you, especially the cable TV deposit which is overdue. 328 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:28,000 Karen PS. Good news. I fixed my genes, so now 329 00:21:28,039 --> 00:21:30,480 you don't have to pay for them, okay. 330 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 5: July twenty fourth, nineteen eighty seven, Karen, your lease says 331 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,200 that you are to pay all utility bills except for 332 00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:43,640 garbage collection and water. When I told you to call 333 00:21:43,759 --> 00:21:47,000 pgn E to transfer the gas to electricity to your house, 334 00:21:47,319 --> 00:21:50,079 I did not give you permission to have them send 335 00:21:50,079 --> 00:21:53,480 the bill to me. I expressly told you when you 336 00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:55,799 signed the lease that you were to pay the gas 337 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,079 and electric bill. I don't know why you've had the 338 00:21:59,079 --> 00:22:01,680 bills sent to me, but you should call pg and 339 00:22:01,799 --> 00:22:04,920 E immediately to have them service transferred to your name, 340 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:06,880 because I'm going to call them and have it taken 341 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,799 out of my name. As you know, I can't have 342 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,279 the service turned off since there's only one meter for 343 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:17,640 yours and the Caldwell's electricity. Karen, you've got to stop 344 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:22,200 playing games with me. My patience is getting pretty stretched. 345 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:31,799 Mark July twenty eighth, nineteen eighty seven. Karen, when I 346 00:22:31,839 --> 00:22:34,160 wrote that I wasn't going to haggle with you like 347 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,519 a rug dealer in a Persian bazaar or bizarre if 348 00:22:38,519 --> 00:22:42,880 you prefer, I meant that only as a simile a 349 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,440 figure of speech. I cannot be more blunt than I 350 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,640 have already been. I will only pay for those items 351 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,160 I have expressly agreed to pay for in my letters 352 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,720 to you. As to the cable TV deposit, Karen, you 353 00:22:55,759 --> 00:22:58,559 should know that the landlord does not pay a deposit 354 00:22:58,599 --> 00:23:02,359 to his tenant, but rather a tenant pays a deposit 355 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,319 to a landlord. 356 00:23:04,599 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 3: Mark Mark, I'm very concerned about all these rats, Karen, 357 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,440 August Tewod, nineteen eighty seven. Dear Mark, I've asked a 358 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,799 lot of my friends, and they tell me you're right 359 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,160 about the cable TV deposit. My friends tell me that 360 00:23:23,279 --> 00:23:28,200 landlords don't give deposits to their tenants, So I guess 361 00:23:28,279 --> 00:23:30,079 I'll just have to pay for all the stuff on 362 00:23:30,079 --> 00:23:33,359 my lists myself now, since you won't. There is one 363 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,160 new item. When I moved in, I agreed to split 364 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,400 the electric bill in half with the Caldwells in the 365 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,519 front house. But there's two of them, Diane and Marshall, 366 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,200 and only one of me until Ellen gets here, so 367 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,480 I should pay only one third of the bill until then. 368 00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:50,880 That seems fairer to me. They use more electricity than 369 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,519 me and have two cats. 370 00:23:53,599 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 5: Karen, August fifth, nineteen eighty seven. Karen, I will not 371 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,160 debate the electric bill with you. In the rental agreement 372 00:24:05,279 --> 00:24:08,480 you signed, you agreed to pay half of the property's 373 00:24:08,519 --> 00:24:12,559 electric bill. I cannot measure the amount of electricity used 374 00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:15,240 by you versus the amount of electricity used by the 375 00:24:15,319 --> 00:24:23,359 Calwells and their two cats. Read your rental agreement, sincerely, Mark. 376 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: It was the summer of nineteen eighty seven Bretha Franklin 377 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,559 became the first woman inducted into the Rock and Roll 378 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,880 Hall of Fame. The Legend of Zelda was released for Nintendo, 379 00:24:39,799 --> 00:24:44,720 the world population reached five billion, and in Oakland, California, 380 00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:50,640 two teenage girls were still settling into their first apartment. 381 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 6: August eighth, nineteen eighty seven. Dear Mark, Well, I guess 382 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,079 I've arrived. The house doesn't seem quite as dreamy as 383 00:24:59,079 --> 00:25:02,640 I imagined. I think the last tenants must have had 384 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,240 bad feelings about this house because I can sense bad 385 00:25:06,319 --> 00:25:11,160 spirits here. I've discussed this with my guru, mister Simila Patel. 386 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,359 He is willing to exercise the bad spirits in this 387 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,880 house for two hundred and fifty dollars as he is 388 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,720 a good friend of mine. His regular fee is five 389 00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:23,160 hundred dollars, so I've saved you fifty percent. Can I 390 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,759 get your okay as soon as possible? Mister Patel travels 391 00:25:26,799 --> 00:25:30,519 a lot, and we wouldn't want to miss him. Ellen. Ps. 392 00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:34,319 Karen tells me your decorator is in Venice. Tell him 393 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:39,319 he must see the bridge of size. It's beautiful, Yours, Ellen. 394 00:25:40,079 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 5: August tenth, nineteen eighty seven. Dear Ellen, I know that 395 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,559 you and Karen have only recently arrived in the Bay Area. 396 00:25:50,759 --> 00:25:53,000 I don't know what the rental market is like where 397 00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:56,480 you come from. It is possible that where you come 398 00:25:56,519 --> 00:26:03,319 from landlords normally pay for exorcisms. However, I can assure 399 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,440 you that the landlords in this area do not pay 400 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,480 for exorcisms or any other means of driving away bad 401 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,400 spirits from their property. If you speak to your friends 402 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,039 who have lived in this area for several years, they 403 00:26:17,079 --> 00:26:23,799 will confirm what I'm saying is true. Sincerely, Mark, PS. 404 00:26:24,519 --> 00:26:27,680 I do not want you to marbilize the walls or 405 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:32,079 wallpaper print or paint the walls either. Remember the rental 406 00:26:32,079 --> 00:26:36,640 agreement you signed prohibits any redecorating, altering, or remodeling of 407 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,640 the building by you without my prior written consent. 408 00:26:41,559 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 6: Mark, August fourteenth, nineteen eighty seven. Dear Mark, you requested 409 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,799 that I should ask my friends if you were justified 410 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,799 in refusing to pay for exercising the bad spirits from 411 00:26:53,799 --> 00:26:57,920 my home, and I did. Here's how they voted. Three 412 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,400 people felt that my request was unreat Four people felt 413 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,279 that my request was reasonable, but you were within your 414 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,880 rights to refuse, including Karen. Two people felt that my 415 00:27:10,039 --> 00:27:13,839 request was reasonable and you should have paid. Two person 416 00:27:14,279 --> 00:27:16,960 felt that my request was reasonable and you are being 417 00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:21,400 completely unreasonable. So it looks like my friends agree with you. 418 00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:24,759 I'm going to ask them again after the harmonic convergence. 419 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:26,960 I'll let you know if they've changed their mind. 420 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,799 Speaker 3: Ellen, August fifteenth, nineteen eighty seven. Dear Mark, I'll pay 421 00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:35,759 half the electric bill until Ellen arrived, but I don't 422 00:27:35,799 --> 00:27:38,720 really think it's fare. You know, this house only have 423 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,119 one telephone outlet in the kitchen. I'd like another one 424 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,000 in my bedroom, and Ellen will probably also want one 425 00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:49,119 in her. The electric store around the corner Positively Electric 426 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,279 says they can sell me a big roll of telephone 427 00:27:51,319 --> 00:27:54,400 wire for five dollars. Will you pay the telephone company 428 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,359 for the installation of two extra telephones in our bedrooms? 429 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 6: Karen sixteenth, nineteen eighty seven, Dear Mark, got some bad 430 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,400 news for you. My guru mister Patel has left the US. 431 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,680 He's gone to a monastery in Sri Lanka to meditate. 432 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,119 I don't know when he'll be back in California. There's 433 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,960 a civil war going on in Sri Lanka. There have 434 00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:21,200 already been attacks on monasteries in Sri Lanka by heavily 435 00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:26,319 armed gorillas. Guru Patel recommended another guru for the exercising 436 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:31,039 of the house spirits, a Gurulahara. Unfortunately, I don't have 437 00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:34,319 a personal relationship with gurula Heara, so he's going to 438 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,480 charge you the full five hundred dollars, but don't worry. 439 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,519 I'm shopping around for a cheaper guru. Do you know 440 00:28:40,599 --> 00:28:44,400 any bargain gurus. Karen thinks this is all nonsense, so 441 00:28:44,519 --> 00:28:48,599 please write to me about this, not her, Yours Ellen, 442 00:28:50,759 --> 00:28:55,559 August twenty fifth, nineteen eighty seven. Dear Mark, Gurula Heara 443 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,599 has just informed of the sad news that the monastery 444 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,720 near Trincomlis Relai Banka has been attacked by communist gorillas 445 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,240 and Guru Patel has probably been killed. Guru Lahara has 446 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,119 gone back to Sri Lanka to attend to matters and meditate. 447 00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:13,079 So temporarily I'm going to have to put off the 448 00:29:13,119 --> 00:29:16,640 exercising of my house spirits. Although I know you probably 449 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,839 want to get this over with almost as much as 450 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,119 I do. Temporarily, I'm going to try to lure the 451 00:29:22,119 --> 00:29:25,039 bad spirits from the house by putting a spirit house 452 00:29:25,039 --> 00:29:28,359 in the garden. The spirit house costs two hundred dollars, 453 00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:30,319 plus the cost of food and the gifts to be 454 00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:33,359 placed inside. I'll understand if you don't want to pay 455 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,559 for this expense in addition to the exorcism sometime later, 456 00:29:37,119 --> 00:29:40,920 Yours Ellen, you shouldn't blame yourself too much for this. 457 00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:47,599 August thirtieth, nineteen eighty seven, dear Mark. Enclosed is our 458 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,799 September rent less the deduction for the Spirit House usual 459 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,359 rent five hundred and ninety dollars minus Spirit House two 460 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:01,400 hundred September rent three hundred and fifty dollars. Karen says, 461 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,920 since three hundred and fifty dollars doesn't divide evenly by two, 462 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,440 I'm paying one hundred and ninety dollars and Karen's paying 463 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:14,000 one hundred and seventy dollars. Yours, Ellen, August thirty first, 464 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,119 nineteen eighty seven, Dear Mark, there's a man who looks 465 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,160 over my fence with a strange look whenever I'm washing 466 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,920 my fish. Do you know if he is normal? 467 00:30:24,559 --> 00:30:29,799 Speaker 3: Yours, Ellen, September nineteenth, nineteen eighty seven, dear Mark, you 468 00:30:29,799 --> 00:30:33,200 shouldn't worry about making Ellen cry. She cries all the time. 469 00:30:34,319 --> 00:30:34,559 Speaker 5: You know. 470 00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:37,279 Speaker 3: I'm still waiting to get approval from your decorator to 471 00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:41,559 wallpaper my house. Is he back yet from Venice? It's 472 00:30:41,559 --> 00:30:45,119 too hard to wallpaper over all these luvered closet doors, 473 00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:47,319 so I think I'll just glue some nice fake fur 474 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,480 to them. What color would you suggest? Could I get 475 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,480 a check from you for five hundred dollars as an 476 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,279 advance on the fabric and fur and glue. Sincerely, Karen, 477 00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:02,799 September twentieth, nineteen teen eighty seven. Dear Mark, I've found 478 00:31:02,839 --> 00:31:06,079 out that you gave a VCR to the Caldwells. I'd 479 00:31:06,119 --> 00:31:09,079 like a VCR and so at Ellen. There's a VCR 480 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,960 I saw at the Good Guy's store in Berkeley that 481 00:31:12,039 --> 00:31:14,920 I liked. It's three hundred and seventy dollars. The blue 482 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,240 ones are four hundred and fifty. I want a blue one. 483 00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:23,799 Ellen would like to get her VCR before the autumnal equinox. Sincerely, Karen, 484 00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:29,799 December tenth, nineteen eighty seven. Dear Mark, It's been a 485 00:31:29,839 --> 00:31:33,480 long time since I wrote to you. The repairman from 486 00:31:33,559 --> 00:31:36,880 Taylor Appliance never came even after we made an appointment, 487 00:31:37,119 --> 00:31:40,799 and our oven still smells bad. I think there's a 488 00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:44,519 gas leak, but Ellen says it smells like avocados. I 489 00:31:44,519 --> 00:31:48,279 think Ellen's wrong. You know, there's a very big avocado 490 00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:50,920 tree next to our front door, and I think Ellen's 491 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,000 just smelling the true. But Ellen says she can smell 492 00:31:54,039 --> 00:31:56,680 avocados when she sticks her head into the oven, so 493 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,839 she says it's not a gas leak. What do you think, yours? Karen, 494 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,920 December sixteenth, nineteen eighty seven. Dear Mark, we called in 495 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,480 a repairman from Reliance Appliance to fix our stove. He's 496 00:32:11,519 --> 00:32:16,039 a real genius. He smelled the avocados too. He said 497 00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:18,799 that Gason never smells like avocados. So he moved to 498 00:32:18,839 --> 00:32:21,319 the oven and he found a rotten avocado that fell 499 00:32:21,359 --> 00:32:25,200 behind the stove. The repairman charged me eighty five dollars 500 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,440 for the service call, which I will deduct from my 501 00:32:27,599 --> 00:32:30,640 January rent. Okay, yours Karen. 502 00:32:38,599 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: Throughout reading the letters, the first of many debates we 503 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,319 had was are Karen and Ellen really this dumb and demanding? 504 00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:51,880 Or are they just fucking with Mark? And while hopefully 505 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,640 none of us were quite this dumb and demanding at 506 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,119 that age, it was hard not to think about all 507 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,559 the crazy things we did the first times we were 508 00:33:00,559 --> 00:33:04,920 living on our own. My roommates and I once tried 509 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,039 to give our landlord giants tickets in lieu of a deposit. 510 00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:12,839 We also used to feed the feral raccoons in our 511 00:33:12,839 --> 00:33:19,039 backyard directly from our kitchen. We willingly let raccoons into 512 00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:26,359 our house. So looking back, this is mortifyingly stupid, naive 513 00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:30,759 and saying. But at the same time, at that age, 514 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:36,720 with very little life experience, it seemed reasonable or fun. 515 00:33:37,279 --> 00:33:40,519 So for a brief moment in reading these letters, we 516 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,000 figured that was most likely the case. Karen and Ellen 517 00:33:44,079 --> 00:33:48,440 either felt they were reasonable or were having fun, but 518 00:33:48,559 --> 00:34:03,799 then things escalated like a lot. Summer always changes how 519 00:34:03,839 --> 00:34:06,680 I get dressed. I want pieces that feel lighter and 520 00:34:06,759 --> 00:34:10,280 more breathable, things that are easy but still put together. 521 00:34:10,559 --> 00:34:13,599 And that's why I keep coming back to Quint's. Literally, 522 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,480 I just place my sixth order last week. Quince focuses 523 00:34:17,519 --> 00:34:21,000 on high quality essentials that feel and look amazing. 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They'll never go out of style, but they'll 534 00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:58,119 always feel good and look great because the quality is unmatched. 535 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,960 Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quins dot com slash 536 00:35:02,039 --> 00:35:06,000 TCBs for free shipping on your order and three hundred 537 00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:10,440 sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's 538 00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:15,320 q u i ncee dot com slash TCBs for free 539 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,360 shipping and three hundred sixty five day returns quints dot 540 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,639 com slash TCBs. 541 00:35:22,519 --> 00:35:27,159 Speaker 2: Warning listening to this podcast may cause un mitigating obsession 542 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,039 and cognitive dissonance. All names have been changed to protect 543 00:35:31,079 --> 00:35:34,880 the innocent, the insane, and everyone else in between. 544 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,639 Speaker 1: It was a turn of the new year. George H. W. 545 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,599 Bush had just been elected president. The TV show Roseanne debuted, 546 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:01,519 Construction of the chunnel connecting England to France began, and 547 00:36:01,559 --> 00:36:06,440 in Oakland, California, two teenage girls were in the early 548 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:11,199 stages of what would become a year's long letter writing 549 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,079 campaign of terror. 550 00:36:15,199 --> 00:36:19,599 Speaker 6: December twenty third, nineteen eighty seven, Dear Mark I. Just 551 00:36:19,639 --> 00:36:21,800 want you to know that I think you're right. We 552 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,400 should have looked behind the stove before calling the repair 553 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,480 man over. I don't want Karen to know that I 554 00:36:27,559 --> 00:36:29,800 don't think that you should have to pay for this repair, 555 00:36:30,199 --> 00:36:32,760 So please don't tell her that I didn't tell you that. 556 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,119 I don't think she's wrong. I just want to play 557 00:36:35,199 --> 00:36:36,800 dumb on this one. Ellen. 558 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,320 Speaker 1: As the old saying goes, you can almost always prove 559 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,559 that something has occurred, but it's nearly impossible to prove 560 00:36:47,639 --> 00:36:52,599 that something hasn't occurred. But as we all hopefully know 561 00:36:52,679 --> 00:36:56,800 by now, just because you can't prove that something didn't 562 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:07,360 happen doesn't necessarily mean that it did happen. I think 563 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,480 we take for granted how difficult it is to research 564 00:37:10,599 --> 00:37:15,719 anything trivial that occurred in the pre Internet days. When 565 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,239 I first started looking into these letters, my Space had 566 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,079 only been around for a year, newspapers dot com didn't 567 00:37:23,119 --> 00:37:28,400 even exist, smartphones weren't really a thing, So proving a 568 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:34,599 person existed was hard, let alone proving a whole series 569 00:37:34,639 --> 00:37:39,000 of events connected to that person occurred. And all I 570 00:37:39,039 --> 00:37:43,000 really had were four names, three of which were pretty common, 571 00:37:43,679 --> 00:37:47,960 and an address. So that's where I started. I googled 572 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,960 the address of Karen and Ellen's cottage and was pleasantly 573 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,599 surprised to find that it actually existed in Oakland, a 574 00:37:56,639 --> 00:38:01,199 small cottage, just as the girls describe it in their letters. So, 575 00:38:01,559 --> 00:38:06,960 feeling slightly more confident, I googled Mark's name, and sure enough, 576 00:38:07,159 --> 00:38:10,000 there was a landlord in the East Bay with his name, 577 00:38:11,519 --> 00:38:13,639 but there was no way to get a hold of him. 578 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,320 All that really came up were references to him in 579 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,679 various meeting minutes. But in searching for Karen and Ellen, 580 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,119 there were some documents that will come up later in 581 00:38:25,159 --> 00:38:28,760 the letters, which seemed like a very good starting point, 582 00:38:30,039 --> 00:38:34,440 but they originated out of state, and at this point 583 00:38:34,599 --> 00:38:37,880 a mere curiosity wasn't enough for me to pay for 584 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,119 an investigative trip up to Oregon, where the girls grew up, 585 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,719 and so, for the first of several times, I gave 586 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,039 up and we resumed the almost monthly tradition of inviting people, 587 00:38:50,079 --> 00:38:54,440 over plying them with wine, and reading the letters until 588 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,519 someone inevitably wet their parents. 589 00:38:59,119 --> 00:39:03,679 Speaker 6: January twenty first, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, the toilet 590 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,880 here makes a noise I don't like when I flush it. 591 00:39:06,159 --> 00:39:09,559 It makes a loud gurgling sound. My daddy had the 592 00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:12,960 same problem. He had jet toilets put in in our 593 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,320 house and no toilet flushing noise. Good news. General plumbing 594 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,000 around the corner from here has jet toilets in stock. 595 00:39:20,559 --> 00:39:22,840 I like you to put one in here. The white 596 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,920 jet toilets cost one hundred and seventy five dollars, but 597 00:39:26,039 --> 00:39:28,960 I would like one in eggshell. They cost two hundred 598 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,440 and twenty five dollars. Please let me know when you 599 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:38,760 can do the job. Yours, Ellen, February fifth, nineteen eighty eight. 600 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,039 Dear Mark, Marcia, a former tenant of yours, is a 601 00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:45,519 good friend of me. She tells me that when she 602 00:39:45,639 --> 00:39:48,320 used to rent her apartment from you on McKinley Street, 603 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,000 you used to take her free firewood for free. She says, 604 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,960 you take free firewood to lots of your tenants. How 605 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,079 come I never get any? 606 00:39:56,599 --> 00:40:04,280 Speaker 5: Yours, Ellen, eighth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Ellen, it is 607 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,639 true that I used to give firewood to Marsha. It 608 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,159 is also true that I still give free firewood to 609 00:40:10,199 --> 00:40:16,360 some of my tenants, those with fireplaces. Your cottage has 610 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,559 no wood stove or fireplace. 611 00:40:19,679 --> 00:40:25,800 Speaker 6: Sincerely, Mark, Dear Mark, I know I haven't gotten a fireplace. 612 00:40:26,119 --> 00:40:28,239 If I did have one, I would have seen it 613 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,960 by now. But it's irrelevant. If you give free firewood 614 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,239 to your other tenants, I should get a free share 615 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:35,559 to yours. 616 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:42,119 Speaker 3: Ellen February twenty third, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, when 617 00:40:42,119 --> 00:40:44,320 I moved in here, you refuse to pay for our 618 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,280 phone stuff and cable TV stuff and our cleaning stuff, 619 00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:50,280 and I let you get away with all that. Now 620 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,159 you're refusing to pay for my stole repair, and I've 621 00:40:53,159 --> 00:40:56,039 got to put my feet down on this one. My 622 00:40:56,039 --> 00:40:58,280 boyfriend says that we should just accept that this is 623 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,880 the way that tenants always get exploited by landlords in 624 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,119 a capitalist system, but I'm not going along with that. 625 00:41:05,039 --> 00:41:08,039 Everyone knows that a landlord always pays for stove repair. 626 00:41:08,679 --> 00:41:11,039 I thought about your argument that this wasn't a stove 627 00:41:11,039 --> 00:41:13,880 repair because the stove wasn't broken, But you're just playing 628 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,079 a word game with me. So I'm deducting eighty five 629 00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:22,840 dollars for my next rent anyhow. Karen, April fifth, nineteen 630 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,960 eighty eight, Dear Mark, I need an air conditioner. It 631 00:41:27,079 --> 00:41:29,679 is very hot in this house with all the windows 632 00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:33,519 closed on hot days. I found a window air conditioner 633 00:41:33,599 --> 00:41:36,880 at Sears for five hundred and twenty dollars including installation 634 00:41:37,119 --> 00:41:40,480 and a service contract, plus sixty two dollars sales tax. 635 00:41:41,079 --> 00:41:48,719 Speaker 5: Yours, Karen, April eighth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen, I 636 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:53,800 am not buying you an air conditioner. I suggest that, 637 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,960 on the few hot days we get around here that 638 00:41:57,079 --> 00:41:59,719 you open your windows. 639 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 3: Mark April eleventh, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, I keep 640 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,280 the windows closed because the people who use the car 641 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,320 wash on the corner play their car radios very loudly, 642 00:42:10,639 --> 00:42:12,760 and it is too nosy in here with the windows 643 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,840 open when people who use the car wash play their 644 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,480 car radios very loudly when they watch their cars. 645 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 5: Yours, Karen, April fourteenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Calum, the 646 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:30,519 car wash is very noisy. If it is unreasonably loud, 647 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:35,039 you might consider filing a complaint with the police. They 648 00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:39,239 may be able to pressure the owner to control the noise. 649 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,639 I repeat, I am not buying you an air conditioner. 650 00:42:47,079 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 3: Sincerely, Mark, April twentieth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, I 651 00:42:53,519 --> 00:42:55,920 showed your letter to my grandmother when I visited her 652 00:42:56,039 --> 00:42:59,119 over the weekend in Palm Desert where she lives. She 653 00:42:59,199 --> 00:43:01,400 has a much bigger apartment than me, and her rent 654 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,440 is only five hundred and fifty dollars a month. My 655 00:43:04,519 --> 00:43:08,320 grandmother says you are being total unreasonable. She says all 656 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,159 her friends have an air conditioning and the landlord always 657 00:43:11,159 --> 00:43:11,960 pays for the thing. 658 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:20,119 Speaker 5: Yours, Karen, April twenty fourth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen, 659 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,480 the climate in the San Francisco Bay area is quite 660 00:43:25,679 --> 00:43:32,000 different from that in Death Valley, which is near Palm Desert, 661 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:38,880 where your grandmother lives. I repeat, I am not buying 662 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:44,159 you an air conditioner. Sincerely, Mark. 663 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,159 Speaker 1: It was the summer of nineteen eighty eight Nancy Reagan 664 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,719 was using a psychic to schedule her White House events. 665 00:43:57,599 --> 00:44:02,519 The average monthly rent was four hundred twenty dollars. Crack 666 00:44:02,639 --> 00:44:08,559 cocaine made its American debut, and in Oakland, California, two 667 00:44:08,679 --> 00:44:12,679 teenage girls were struggling with jurisdiction. 668 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,119 Speaker 3: May tenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, Last week a 669 00:44:20,159 --> 00:44:22,960 man named Hal stop by here. He said he used 670 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:24,599 to live in a chicken coop that used to be 671 00:44:24,639 --> 00:44:27,480 where my cottage is now. How says he used to 672 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,440 pay you two hundred dollars a month rent I pay 673 00:44:30,519 --> 00:44:33,719 five hundred and ninety dollars a month. I don't think 674 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:39,280 the Berkeley rent control law allows that much of an increase. Yours, Karen, 675 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:47,960 May fifteenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, I called the 676 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,519 Berkeley Rent Control Board and they say that you can 677 00:44:50,639 --> 00:44:53,920 charge twenty six point four percent plus twenty five dollars 678 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,760 more than you were charging on December first, nineteen eighty 679 00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,880 I figure my rent should be two hundred and sixty 680 00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:03,039 dollars and ninety cents, which is twenty six point four 681 00:45:03,119 --> 00:45:05,719 percent plus twenty five dollars more than the two hundred 682 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,840 dollars Hell was paying. That means you owe me a 683 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,320 refund of nine thousand, two hundred dollars. According to my boyfriend, 684 00:45:13,199 --> 00:45:15,320 you can either send me a check or take it 685 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,119 off my rent if you agree with those numbers, Yours, Karen. 686 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,639 Speaker 1: About a year and a half after I received the letters, 687 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,440 life had some changes for me. I ended up leaving 688 00:45:28,519 --> 00:45:32,199 the Bay area and heading north to Portland. I moved 689 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,599 with only the essentials, so the Karen and Ellen letters 690 00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:38,679 sat in a box in my parents' garage for a 691 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,960 year while I made a life for myself in Oregon. 692 00:45:42,679 --> 00:45:45,599 When my parents finally came to visit, they brought the 693 00:45:45,639 --> 00:45:48,840 majority of my stuff up with them, and as I 694 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:53,320 sat there going through boxes, I stumbled upon those old letters. 695 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,400 And just a few nights later, the old tradition continued, 696 00:46:00,119 --> 00:46:04,119 only this time in Portland, with a whole new circle 697 00:46:04,159 --> 00:46:09,920 of friends laughing at the Karen and Ellen letters. And 698 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:15,519 that's when we realized something amazing. I was now living 699 00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:17,400 in the girl's home town. 700 00:46:23,079 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 5: May eighteenth, nineteen eighty eight. Oh, dear Karen, you don't 701 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:35,719 seem to understand the concept of jurisdiction. Your house is 702 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:41,159 in Oakland. The Berkeley Rent Control Board has no jurisdiction 703 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:46,159 in Oakland. The fact that you attend college in Berkeley 704 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:51,480 is irrelevant. The rent you pay is lawful under Oakland's 705 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:52,559 rent control law. 706 00:46:54,159 --> 00:46:59,280 Speaker 3: Mark May twenty first, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, I 707 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,039 would like to get the weeds in my yard cut 708 00:47:01,079 --> 00:47:03,920 down and landscaped, because it's in the shade a lot. 709 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,199 I think ferns would be nice. I know a landscaper, 710 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:11,159 kiro Yamashida, would will do the job for you. I'd 711 00:47:11,159 --> 00:47:13,000 be willing to let you deduct the cost of this 712 00:47:13,079 --> 00:47:15,159 from the ninety two hundred dollars you owes me. 713 00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:22,880 Speaker 5: Yours, Karen, Ny twenty fifth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen, 714 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,960 I repeat Berkeley's rent control law is not enforceable in Oakland. 715 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,800 I do not owe you ninety two hundred dollars or 716 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:33,960 any other amount, and I will not pay you for 717 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:39,360 your gardening or landscaping. I would like to suggest to 718 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,159 you that, since you feel I am unreasonable and am 719 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:47,519 overcharging you for what you're renting from me, you consider 720 00:47:47,639 --> 00:47:50,800 finding another place to live with a landlord more to 721 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:51,480 your liking. 722 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:58,599 Speaker 3: Very sincerely, Mark, June third, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, 723 00:47:59,559 --> 00:48:02,920 I was hurt by your last letter. You shouldn't take 724 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,440 your oweing me the ninety two hundred dollars personally. I 725 00:48:06,519 --> 00:48:09,039 know the house is in Oakland, but you advertised it 726 00:48:09,079 --> 00:48:11,840 at the University student housing office, which is in Berkeley. 727 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,360 My boyfriend, who is thinking of going to law school, 728 00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:17,880 says that means jurisdiction is irreverent. 729 00:48:19,039 --> 00:48:25,199 Speaker 6: Yours, Karen, June sixth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, I 730 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,760 saw a commercial for a movie yesterday who framed Roger Rabbit. 731 00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:32,920 Really worried about it. You see, it's all about a 732 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:38,000 rabbit named Roger Rabbit. Roger Rabbit is married. His wife 733 00:48:38,039 --> 00:48:42,000 is named Jessica Rabbit. But she's not a rabbit. She's 734 00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:45,840 a person, you know, a real person, even though she's 735 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:50,000 only a cartoon. Well, why is her last name rabbit? 736 00:48:50,599 --> 00:48:53,679 In cartoons, the last name of the thing is supposed 737 00:48:53,679 --> 00:48:56,280 to tell you what kind of thing the thing is, 738 00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:01,880 you know, like Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Bugs, Bunny. Well, 739 00:49:02,199 --> 00:49:05,880 if they can call a person Jessica Rabbit, maybe they'll 740 00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,320 do the same thing with other cartoons, like the next thing. 741 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,679 You know, Mickey Mouse could be called Mickey Rabbit even 742 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,280 though he's still a mouse. Kids would be all confused, 743 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,039 and so am I. I think this is serious. 744 00:49:19,679 --> 00:49:28,960 Speaker 5: Ellen, June sixth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Carob, I do 745 00:49:29,039 --> 00:49:33,000 not owe you any money. Your house is in Oakland, 746 00:49:33,599 --> 00:49:37,280 not in Berkeley. You do not get to pick which 747 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,719 city's rent control law you like. If you file a 748 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:46,079 petition with the Berkeley Rent Control Board, you will lose 749 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,800 your case, but still cause me the inconvenience of having 750 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,760 to attend a hearing and hiring a lawyer. If you 751 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,480 put me through this expense and inconvenience. I warn you 752 00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:07,119 I will evict you. This is no joke. Very sincerely, Mark. 753 00:50:08,159 --> 00:50:12,719 Speaker 3: June tenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, I don't want 754 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,920 to leave my house, but i'll go if you insist, 755 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,480 after you send me the ninety two hundred dollars you 756 00:50:18,519 --> 00:50:21,760 owe me. My boyfriend is going to visit the Berkeley 757 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,079 Rent Control Board this week. I don't want to spoil 758 00:50:25,119 --> 00:50:27,880 our relationship, but I can really use the ninety two 759 00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,079 hundred dollars. 760 00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:38,280 Speaker 5: Yours, Karen, June twelfth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen, as 761 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,039 I have already told you it doesn't matter where I live, 762 00:50:42,199 --> 00:50:45,119 where you go to school, or where you pay your rent. 763 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,840 Your house is not in Berkeley, but in Oakland. The 764 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:54,519 Berkeley Rent Control Board has no jurisdiction in Oakland, which 765 00:50:54,559 --> 00:50:59,280 is a separate incorporated city. While I don't want you 766 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,079 to go to the clear Rent Control Board, since you 767 00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:06,599 already intend to go there anyway, ask them about jurisdiction, 768 00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:09,840 and perhaps ask your lawyer too. 769 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:18,159 Speaker 6: Mark June fourteenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, according to 770 00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:23,480 Karen's boyfriend Rob, your jurisdiction argument is inethical. I don't 771 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,760 know a lot about jurisdiction, but I think it's overlooking 772 00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:31,039 the real issue. If different places have different rules for 773 00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:34,920 different things, it seems unfair. Like if I live in 774 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,000 one place with different rules for different things, then I 775 00:51:38,039 --> 00:51:40,840 move to a different place, I don't know what the 776 00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:44,000 rules are in that new place. It just seems confusing 777 00:51:44,079 --> 00:51:49,599 for everyone. Rob says jurisdiction is a capitalist loophole. Sometimes 778 00:51:49,599 --> 00:51:51,960 I think I agree with Rob, and sometimes I think 779 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,000 I don't. What do you think, yours? 780 00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:00,320 Speaker 3: Ellen, June fifteenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, it least 781 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,239 to me that you are taking the ninety two hundred 782 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,000 dollars you owe me personally, even if you don't. Since 783 00:52:06,039 --> 00:52:08,119 I wouldn't want our friendship to be spoilt by this, 784 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,000 I'm willing to settle this matter by splitting the amount 785 00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,400 of half. If you'll send me forty two hundred dollars, 786 00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:18,079 I'll let the other forty two hundred dollars go. The 787 00:52:18,119 --> 00:52:21,440 Berkeley Rent Control Board told me that your jurisdiction argument 788 00:52:21,559 --> 00:52:23,559 is yours. 789 00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:31,559 Speaker 5: Karen, June seventeenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen, I do 790 00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:34,800 not owe you ninety two hundred dollars or any other 791 00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:39,880 amount my last letter was no joke. If you file 792 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,920 a petition with the Berkeley Rent Control Board for a 793 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:48,159 rent rebate on your house, which is in Oakland, I 794 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:52,280 will send you a thirty day eviction notice within twenty 795 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:59,599 four hours. Think it over. You need legal advice, and 796 00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:03,960 I don't mean from your boyfriend who is quote thinking 797 00:53:04,039 --> 00:53:06,760 of going to law school. End quote. 798 00:53:09,639 --> 00:53:15,559 Speaker 3: Very sincerely, Mark, June nineteenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, 799 00:53:16,559 --> 00:53:18,920 my boyfriend may not be a lawyer, but he's got 800 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,280 an application for law school at the Tough University in Boston, 801 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,800 and he says he can get in if he wants 802 00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,679 to go there. He's smart. Well. He went to the 803 00:53:28,679 --> 00:53:31,800 Berkeley Rent Control Board two days ago, but the person 804 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,880 he spoke to didn't know anything about jurisdiction. But she 805 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,119 would ask someone else at her office and call us back. 806 00:53:37,559 --> 00:53:38,920 So we will see who's right. 807 00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:48,320 Speaker 5: Yours, Karen, June twenty third, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen, 808 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:55,159 I've been reluctant to say anything critical about your boyfriend 809 00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:59,480 up until now, but I must say something about him 810 00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:04,559 that you will not want to hear. You have mentioned 811 00:54:04,559 --> 00:54:07,159 in your phone calls to me and now in your 812 00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,920 last letter. That you think your boyfriend is smart and 813 00:54:11,559 --> 00:54:17,159 a reliable source on legal advice because he's quote thinking 814 00:54:17,199 --> 00:54:22,519 of replying to the tough law school in Boston, and 815 00:54:22,599 --> 00:54:24,559 you believe he will be able to get into this 816 00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:33,639 tough law school easily. The school your boyfriend is referring 817 00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:41,320 to is not quote the Tough University, but Toughs University, 818 00:54:42,039 --> 00:54:45,519 which is in Boston. The name of the school has 819 00:54:45,559 --> 00:54:51,000 nothing to do with toughness, although toughts does have a 820 00:54:51,039 --> 00:54:57,719 good reputation. Besides, quote, thinking about applying to law school, 821 00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,039 no matter how good or tough the school may be, 822 00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:07,920 does not qualify a person to give leagal advice. I 823 00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,239 advise you again to see a real lawyer of your own. 824 00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:21,800 Mark June twenty third, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Albert, would 825 00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:26,400 you give me a favor send me a one page 826 00:55:26,519 --> 00:55:33,960 letter on your university stationery simply stating something like a 827 00:55:34,079 --> 00:55:38,599 city's rent control law is not enforceable beyond a city's jurisdiction. 828 00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,880 I think Karen would be impressed by such a letter 829 00:55:44,519 --> 00:55:48,039 from a professor of law from Boston, even though you 830 00:55:48,079 --> 00:55:50,760 didn't teach it the Tough University. 831 00:55:52,239 --> 00:56:00,360 Speaker 3: Thanks Mark, June twenty sixth, nineteen eighty eight. Mark right, 832 00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:04,320 My boyfriend says he's planning to go to Tufts. I 833 00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:07,360 must have heard him wrong, but he says Tufts is 834 00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,679 pretty tough. Anyway. He went to the Berkeley rent Control Board. 835 00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,360 They said they would have to look over my letters 836 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,800 and yours and get back to me. The woman he 837 00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,519 spoke to says, I may have a case. Unless I don't. 838 00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:21,960 It will take them a few weeks to make up 839 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,360 their minds. I'll get back to you on this when 840 00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,480 they get back to me on this yours Karen. 841 00:56:30,159 --> 00:56:33,000 Speaker 1: At this point in our initial reading of the letters, 842 00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:37,239 we were howling with laughter over the stupidity of these 843 00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:42,400 two teenage girls and the frustration and sass of their landlord, 844 00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:47,079 who was well into his fifties. In Portland, I was 845 00:56:47,119 --> 00:56:51,199 going through microfiche at the local library, trying to prove 846 00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:55,800 that something had occurred, something that would have certainly made 847 00:56:55,880 --> 00:57:01,000 the local newspapers, something that would prove that Karen and 848 00:57:01,039 --> 00:57:09,519 Ellen actually existed. At that point, though there was no 849 00:57:09,679 --> 00:57:14,760 real reason behind nor end game two my search, I 850 00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,000 just needed to know that these letters were real, and 851 00:57:18,159 --> 00:57:22,840 needed to know that these people existed. In the most 852 00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:26,239 cynical sense, you could say I was looking for proof 853 00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,239 that the idiocy chronicled in these letters was real, that 854 00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:35,800 we were laughing at real people. In the most heartfelt sense, 855 00:57:37,079 --> 00:57:40,320 these letters and Karen and Ellen had become a part 856 00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:44,599 of my life, a part of my friends' lives, something 857 00:57:44,639 --> 00:57:49,559 that brought people together and then was passed on. Each 858 00:57:49,639 --> 00:57:52,760 time we sat down to read these letters, there were 859 00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,400 new faces eager to hear from Karen and Ellen and Mark. 860 00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:02,960 These letters had created a small, strange community, and so 861 00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:07,559 while yes, I wanted proof that these idiots were real, 862 00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,360 for some reason, it also felt like the community wasn't 863 00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:17,000 as strong or valuable or true if the letters themselves 864 00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:21,840 weren't true, which says a lot about the ways in 865 00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:30,639 which we see and exist in the world.