WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.840 --> 00:00:04.200 Okay, so let me let me try to, at real 2 00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:08.279 quickly introduce these guys somewhat formally so that you guys 3 00:00:08.279 --> 00:00:10.679 can know what they're. 4 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:11.560 Doing and where they come from. 5 00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:17.000 We'll start with Jay from Jay's Analysis, and he has 6 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:19.399 grown to become one of the premier film and philosophy 7 00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:23.160 sites on the net, showcasing the talents of Jay Dyer, 8 00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:28.920 who's graduate focused on the interplay of film, geopolitics, espionage, 9 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:33.159 and psychological warfare. Jay is a public speaker, lecturer, comedian, 10 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:38.399 and author of the popular title Esoteric Hollywood Sex Cults 11 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:41.560 and Symbols in Film, which made it to Amazon's number 12 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:44.280 one spot its first month of release in the Film 13 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:50.039 and Hollywood category. Jay, thank you very much for joining us. 14 00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:53.240 I'm gonna go ahead and introduce mister adies real quickly. 15 00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:54.399 Then we want to come back to you and let 16 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:57.000 you talk about your channel and just kind of introduce 17 00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:00.759 you a little bit further from there, and let me 18 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:04.840 switch over to mister Atheist, who is an ex Mormon 19 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:09.400 and a content creator here on YouTube. His show, Dear 20 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:13.599 Mister Atheist, answers the questions atheists are frequently asked. He 21 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:19.079 also has a mini series called What's wrong with Mormonism. 22 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:24.560 Mister atheists, you've been making the round. How are you today? 23 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:23.560 So? 24 00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:27.480 Yeah, man, it's been crazy sort short amount of time, 25 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:29.799 and I feel like the prettiest girl of the dance 26 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:30.079 I do. 27 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:38.799 We just passed him around. That's a. 28 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:42.239 Okay, Jay, let's switch over to you kind of introduce 29 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:45.079 yourself to people who aren't familiar with you and your 30 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:46.680 channel and whatever. 31 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:49.680 Else you think we need to know before we get 32 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:50.400 into the meat of this. 33 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:53.680 Yeah, after the book. 34 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:57.400 Well, I'll mention that my grad work was on what 35 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:01.079 you mentioned, but I also did another degree in philosophy 36 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:05.519 and history, and my grad work is also my master's 37 00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:08.000 thesis is what you what you talked about, psychological warfare. 38 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:12.280 But my my graduate thesis itself is actually my master's 39 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:15.159 work is actually in philosophy and lit. So there's a 40 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:18.560 whole broad variety of there of what I've studied. But 41 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:22.080 I'm pure reviewed, academically published. 42 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:24.120 I have a. 43 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:25.719 Second book in the work, which will be the sequel 44 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:28.719 to the first book. Hollywood Decoded is also the basis 45 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:31.919 of a full production TV show, or my book is 46 00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:34.840 the basis for the full production TV show Hollywood Decoded. 47 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:38.319 I'm also now the co host of Orski Live with 48 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:39.039 Andy Worski. 49 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:40.919 And you've seen. 50 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:43.479 Me probably in a lot of YouTube debates with Richard Spencer, 51 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:48.879 with JF. Gary Epp and other atheists and thinkers. And yeah, 52 00:02:48.919 --> 00:02:51.360 so that's what I do. Got another TV show in 53 00:02:51.400 --> 00:02:54.520 the works, that's we're shooting the pilot pretty soon. And 54 00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:57.719 that's all I can think of. There's bugs in here. 55 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:01.280 Excellent, that's quite a bit. That's quite an aggressive. 56 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:02.680 Resume. 57 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:06.159 I will say a philosophy. 58 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:08.840 Yeah, I saw it, as you said, philosophy. 59 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:10.680 I saw Steve Boning over there. 60 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:13.240 I don't know if I'm gonna be able to get. 61 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:17.240 To that's like, we don't need them. We don't need them. 62 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:20.360 Go ahead, say thank to you, sir. 63 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:24.240 Everyone calls me Jimmy, and that's fine. There's no need 64 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:26.960 for a more formal mister, Atheists. My CV is nowhere 65 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:31.960 near as impressive content creator that came on the scene 66 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:36.919 about four months ago. The production values were what set 67 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:38.840 me apart, but are entirely because it's what I do 68 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:42.439 for my day job. Also, and as you mentioned, I 69 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:45.000 answered the questions that atheists are posed over and over again. 70 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:48.479 I do come from a Mormon background. I left Mormonism 71 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:52.400 in my early twenties, as a result of really observing Mormonism, 72 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:56.439 made my way past Mormonism slightly into Christianity, a little 73 00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:59.919 bit of Deism, and then all the way out to atheism, 74 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:03.240 more agnostic or philosophical agnosticism, as Steve would prefer. 75 00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:06.960 I clarify, and I. 76 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:10.560 Also am writing a book called Esoteric Esoteric Hollywood, which 77 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:13.560 the thesis is that Jay is a member of the 78 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:16.439 Illuminati and is only written the first book to cover 79 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:18.040 what the Illuminati is really up to. 80 00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:23.439 Yeah, and this would be clipped out as proof right here. 81 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:26.920 If you do that, you know what just happened right there? 82 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:33.800 The digital Christian just spassed out when we did that. 83 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:35.959 He puts me on his channel. 84 00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:38.079 I hope he exposes me and then I'll get a 85 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:39.600 whole bunch of traffic that will work fine for me. 86 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:42.360 But yeah, to. 87 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:45.040 Mario still has a channel that's relevant. 88 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:50.839 Okay, go ahead, Jay, Well, I'm just gonna say real quick. 89 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:52.399 Uh. I forgot to mention too. 90 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:56.360 I do represent Orthodox Christianity, so I'll be distinct from 91 00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:00.399 Roman Catholicism and Protestantism in my my approach and and 92 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:03.879 my belief in apologetics is that I actually have a 93 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:06.399 distinct we have a distinct approach to that as well, 94 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:09.879 So it's not going to be rehashed Thomas Aquinas or 95 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:12.279 rehashed you know evangelical stuff. 96 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:14.000 Awesome. 97 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:17.720 Yeah, Actually, can I ask, then, in relation to that question, 98 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:21.720 what your position on in relation to the Catholic churches, 99 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:24.000 because this is relevant for some of the stuff down 100 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:24.360 the way. 101 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:29.360 Well, I was Catholic for a long time, about ten 102 00:05:29.480 --> 00:05:33.319 years before I got into Orthodoxy, so I was a hardcore, 103 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:37.160 committed fan of Aquinas very much Atomas. I attended the 104 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:41.560 Latin Mass pretty voraciously, pretty consistently. 105 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:44.839 So yeah, Orthodoxy. 106 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:47.279 Is, you know, a completely distinct communion and completely distinct church. 107 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:49.519 Certainly it shares a lot of similarities with the first 108 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:52.399 thousand years of the Church, but of course in the 109 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:56.519 second millennia they split and go their separate ways. So 110 00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:00.360 we're kind of in ways similar to Protestant and then 111 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:02.879 in other ways similar to Catholic, depending on what the 112 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:06.639 focus is. But but we do not believe that Romanism 113 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:08.279 is the right religion. 114 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:14.680 Any any particular or special ill will towards them over others. I, 115 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:17.920 for example, certainly target Mormonism more than any others on 116 00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:21.000 my channel because it's specifically what I came from and 117 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:23.759 find the most fun to attack. 118 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:27.839 But that's people had debated Nick Fuintis over this, and 119 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:31.399 he and I have had a pretty heated Catholic Orthodox debate, 120 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:35.560 and only because Roman Catholics seem to get so mad 121 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:37.639 and they're the only the only people that have like 122 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:40.959 flagged my channel and got me banned for on Twitter 123 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:44.120 are are Roman Catholics, So that that is part of 124 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:46.759 the reason why there's a lot of ferocity. 125 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:52.879 So as an Orthodox Catholic, is there any any Vatican 126 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:53.800 interaction at all? 127 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:55.879 Or is it entirely devoid of the Vatican. 128 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:02.199 Yeah, Orthodoxy among other things split over in ten fifty four. 129 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:05.160 Roughly they split over the question of the role of 130 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:08.600 the pope. So we see all bishops as equal. We 131 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:13.519 believe in the ecumenical the council view of the Church, 132 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:17.079 not in the idea of papal infallibility or papal ex cathedral. 133 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:19.519 So that's one of the key central aspects of what 134 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:21.680 we differ over. But then we also differ over the 135 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:24.680 nature of Christ and who God is, how we know God, 136 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:27.519 how we experience God. Everything ends up being different. 137 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:31.399 Is sorry, am I derailing things? 138 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:31.560 Is this? 139 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:33.639 How did you want? Is this okay? 140 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:33.839 Now? 141 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:36.000 Okay, this is fine? 142 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:40.079 Whenever you my phone, whenever you get ready, I'll I'll 143 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:43.680 just for the first question out, but if you need context. 144 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:44.920 Go for yeah. 145 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:47.560 So for the last question, I guess is yeah, go ahead. 146 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:51.560 Well my question is just about the process. So are 147 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.160 we going to jump right into and I don't care 148 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:55.800 either way, but are we going to talk about I 149 00:07:55.800 --> 00:07:59.079 think you titled it what like like Hollywood occultism or 150 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:01.040 Hollywood or are we going to do that or. 151 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:06.519 All of my act questions have to do with your book? 152 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:07.279 Yeah? 153 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:10.160 Yeah, Basically all of what's gonna happen is he's going 154 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:11.759 to get the context that he needs. 155 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:13.279 And then what we do here is we. 156 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:18.360 Don't like they're not rigid structured debates where it's you know, 157 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:20.480 you get this time, he gets this time. We kind 158 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:22.800 of like to have a free flowing kind of conversation 159 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:23.839 because you get more out of it. 160 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:26.639 So we're going to focus on the symbolism. 161 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:30.079 What once he gets like what he needs context, I'm 162 00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:31.720 gonna throw it to you and let you kind of 163 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:34.879 put out the premise with what your books about and 164 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:37.879 kind of what you're, what you're you're claiming and all that. 165 00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:41.000 Yeah, I mean, and yeah, even my first question is 166 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:43.399 largely related to to what you just stated. All all 167 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.759 of my questions that follow, while they may deviate from 168 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:49.759 the pages here and there, it's yeah, it's all related 169 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:50.200 to the book. 170 00:08:50.919 --> 00:08:52.159 I am curious whether or not. 171 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:54.879 And this is just pure curiosity, not about to start 172 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:56.440 a fight with Orthodoxy. 173 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:57.559 Are they Young Earth. 174 00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:00.440 Or are they or does it vary like with Moremanism, 175 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:04.840 They're they're younger Mormons and naturalist Mormons who just believe 176 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:06.799 in occasional intervention. 177 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:13.120 There are plenty of Orthodox who do accept evolution in 178 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:16.960 both micro macro senses. There are pretty plenty of Orthodox 179 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:20.919 who accept Old and Young Earth. So for us, it's 180 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:25.480 not typically something that's dogmatic. Although I do believe in creation, 181 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:27.639 so I tend to argue against a. 182 00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:31.480 Big scale evolution, and. 183 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:33.200 That that part I knew. I was just curious if, 184 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:34.200 as you talked. 185 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:37.000 About, I don't I don't have a dogmatic Yeah, I 186 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:39.200 don't have a dogmatic nor do I have a dogmatic 187 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:43.960 argument about the specific age per se of. 188 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:48.399 The Okay, cool, cool, Okay, that's I think. That's all 189 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:49.200 I mean a good moment. 190 00:09:49.399 --> 00:09:53.159 You're good and one more little side that I think 191 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:56.360 it's it should be put out there because it's to me. 192 00:09:56.360 --> 00:10:00.399 It was epic and it was just it was just 193 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:01.000 a sweet thing. 194 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:04.840 Uh, with you and Richard Spencer when you you guys debated. 195 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:08.399 Can you tell people what the what you guys debated over? 196 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:10.720 I mean, there's a few, but. 197 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:14.399 I know which one you're asking about, so because he's 198 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:15.840 done it a few times, so I'll tell Jay he's 199 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:19.759 asking specifically about which political party Jesus would have been 200 00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:22.960 a part of, And yeah, if that helps give a 201 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:23.960 hint toward which. 202 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:27.600 You guys cut out for a second. 203 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:30.440 But but the question was what what political party would 204 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.200 Jesus be Yeah, So he was. 205 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.960 Asking you about your Richard Spencer debate, and I was saying, 206 00:10:36.039 --> 00:10:38.159 I know which one he's specifically asking about, and it 207 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:44.000 had to do with political parties. So I was just 208 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:45.639 trying to give you the context before you answer, because 209 00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:48.679 I know you've done other debates with him, So which 210 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:49.720 specific debate is before? 211 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:54.759 I thought it was a great premise. It was if Jesus. 212 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:55.200 Was all right or not? 213 00:10:56.360 --> 00:11:00.720 Would be all right? How well? 214 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:01.399 How was he? 215 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:04.679 Uh? As far as somebody that you know, because he's 216 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:05.639 a controversial figure. 217 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:11.240 Was that a decision that you kind of made lightly 218 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:14.960 or did you get he kind of backlash from you know, 219 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:17.559 entertaining having a debate with somebody like that. 220 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:21.799 I'm just curious. It seems like you'd get some flat 221 00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:22.120 for that. 222 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:29.399 Maybe minimal, but uh, you know, I I think pretty 223 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:33.519 clearly distinguished my positions from his. So you know, I mean, 224 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:37.279 Richard debates black He debates black checks on on YouTube, 225 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:39.720 so you know, he debates all kinds of people. 226 00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:43.440 Uh, you know, he debates Jewish guys. 227 00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:46.960 I only bring that up because we just announced yesterday 228 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:49.639 about Sargon coming on in bar Gone. 229 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:51.279 For some people, you. 230 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:52.519 Would have thought the world ended. 231 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:57.240 Uh you know, you get those people who could out there. 232 00:11:57.320 --> 00:11:59.240 I can't believe you're giving something like that a platform. 233 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:01.639 And I just wondered if you got the same thing 234 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:05.919 with with a somebody Richard Spencer, I mean very. 235 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:10.039 Nonmal I mean, I mean there was some criticism, but 236 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:13.480 really it was it was hosted app based Baked Alaska's channel. 237 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:15.519 It wasn't my channel, And you know. 238 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:17.919 The question and the weird thing was that originally it 239 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:19.720 was supposed to be a debate, and then the day 240 00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:22.240 before Richard said, would let's just have an. 241 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:26.519 A conversation and I was like, well, you already agreed to. 242 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:30.200 A debate, so and so then we we we agreed 243 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:31.039 on something in between. 244 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:32.360 We called it an exchange. 245 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:36.000 But I think James also in Baked Alaska, is still 246 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:38.159 called it a debate, which is fine with me, and 247 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:39.080 that's what it was supposed to. 248 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:41.759 Be, but not really. Not many people in me flack 249 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:42.159 over it. 250 00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:47.000 But I generally use the three words interchangeably if I'm 251 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:48.879 coming on with anybody I disagree with. 252 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:51.399 Debate, exchange or discussion. 253 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:53.960 Yeah, they're change. 254 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:56.440 So let's get to discussion. 255 00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:01.080 I'm gonna let Jay kind of explaining what his books 256 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.080 about and the premise that he's coming from, and then 257 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:08.759 this atheist you can once he gets finished, ask whatever 258 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:10.639 question that you have. The only thing that I asked guys, 259 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:12.879 is that you don't talk over each other so that 260 00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:17.000 the people who are listening can understand and get your 261 00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:20.320 entire thoughts out. So that's the only rule. Just don't 262 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:22.799 talk over each other and let each other finish out 263 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:25.120 your faults and we'll have a good conversation. 264 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:29.600 All right, Jay, Well, basically The book is just a 265 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:31.759 reflection of an interest that I have for a long 266 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:35.679 time in film. Around age eighteen, I was interested in 267 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:38.159 acting and I wrote a stand up routine. 268 00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:40.200 I did stand up here and there on the side, 269 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:40.799 just for fun. 270 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:44.720 And then when I went into university, I started studying 271 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:47.360 a lot of history, looked at the geopolitics. It was 272 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:51.480 also getting into conspiracy topics online, mainly for fun, and 273 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:53.519 I started noticing that a lot of the plots of 274 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:57.159 films really were conspiratorial, and a lot of times the 275 00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:00.440 authors of both screenplays and people who were and say 276 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:03.679 intelligence had a lot of crossover. And then as I 277 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:07.120 researched this for grad work, I noticed that there was 278 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:10.320 a lot there that I thought was initially would have 279 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:14.200 thought was absurd, the idea that the Pentagon or the 280 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:17.759 CIA has a lot to do with telling Hollywood how 281 00:14:17.799 --> 00:14:20.399 to craft films, what messages to put into films. 282 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:24.039 So I thought that would be an interesting subject. 283 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:26.840 Matter to pursue at a graduate level and do a 284 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:28.840 thesis on. And so I had to pick something a 285 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:32.080 little more narrow, and I chose Ian Fleming his life 286 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:34.519 and of course he's the creator of James Bond. If 287 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:38.039 you're not familiar, and the way that the films were 288 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:42.600 used as kind of Western CIA propaganda, British intelligence propaganda 289 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:42.919 in the. 290 00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:47.200 Cold War especially. So what you see is that a lot. 291 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:51.399 Of Ian Fleming's own personal exploits in Black Ops actually 292 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:56.360 became a subtle undercurrent for what's in most of the 293 00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:58.600 Bond stories, and there's a kernel at least of truth. 294 00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:00.919 You know, Flemings fans were saying everything I write his 295 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:05.960 President in truth, and certainly they're fiction stories, but they 296 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:10.080 also include hermetic and alchemical and occultic themes. I think 297 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:13.799 that Fleming spiced his novel up with those ideas. So 298 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:17.240 that became the seed for the book that I wrote, 299 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:21.080 which focused on mainly big directors. So I looked at 300 00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:23.919 the first eighty pages or Kubrick films Eyes, White Shirt 301 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:30.480 Shining two thousand and one, then about eighty pages or 302 00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:32.440 so of Spielberg and H. G. 303 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:33.639 Wells, and how HG. 304 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.320 Wells was actually a master propagandist as well as a 305 00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:39.440 science fiction author. So I went pretty deep into the 306 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:44.080 metaphysics and the philosophy of film and how it conveys 307 00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:47.480 meaning to us at different levels. So this is a 308 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:50.039 question of in philosophy, what's called semiotics. So I go 309 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:52.960 into the semiotics of film some and then I went 310 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:55.480 into a section, as I said, on Bond, and then 311 00:15:55.519 --> 00:16:00.559 a section a little bit on Hitchcock and his presentation 312 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:03.960 and how he actually worked with British intelligence, how different 313 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:09.000 outfits studied Hitchcock films for their psychological value as it 314 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:12.399 would be useful in terms of propaganda. 315 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:14.320 So what the book does. 316 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:19.159 It operates on multiple levels, analyzing imagery and analyzing narratives, 317 00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:25.600 analyzing contexts, directors, and all of that in relationship to 318 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:30.759 real world geopolitics, real world history, and real world conspiracies 319 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.080 as far as I could verify them. So it's four 320 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:35.320 hundred and four footnotes, three hundred and sixty three pages. 321 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:40.159 Anybody who does grad research and does if you're a 322 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:43.480 research assistant, you'll have to do a lot of footnoting. 323 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:46.360 So I'm very pretty anal retentive about footnoting. So I 324 00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:49.279 try to source everything as well and as best as 325 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:50.960 I can, hence the library behind me. 326 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:52.200 So that's what the book is. 327 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:55.759 It's an analysis of the big directors in their films 328 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.600 in terms of all of those levels. 329 00:16:59.399 --> 00:16:59.759 I see. 330 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:01.080 I see Steed in the corner. 331 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:04.680 Every time you you make a philosophical. 332 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:07.000 Philosophical word. 333 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:14.079 What I like philosophy? Why is that so bad? See 334 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:16.240 the crap? You see this? 335 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:20.319 Yeah, if you do a philosophy degree, I mean, you know, 336 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:22.799 the dumb joke always heard when I was doing grad 337 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:27.920 school was oor the philosophy, Uh, factories hiring. 338 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:29.720 When you get out. So you know, I mean you're 339 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:30.400 pretty limited. 340 00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:32.359 You can either go on and get the pH d 341 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:34.759 and try to teach, or you can do what I do, 342 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:36.759 and you know, go out there and write books and 343 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:38.839 and do what I do in philosophy. 344 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:40.319 You have to wonder did you really get your degree? 345 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:47.400 Or not to get to my degree? You did you 346 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:47.680 get that? 347 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:48.400 Good? 348 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:51.759 Yeah, I'm coming around, okay, straight? 349 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:54.160 Yeah. 350 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:57.119 Hello, So I'm gonna treat this more as the hard 351 00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:00.079 start with the the hello to Well. 352 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:02.440 First of all, thank you Jay for agreeing to come on. 353 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.319 I think it's commendable anybody who has opinions that are 354 00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:08.759 obviously I mean, you acknowledge that you are trying to 355 00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:11.640 expose conspiracies or I hope I'm not doing you this 356 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.039 service and saying that, And so that's going to be 357 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:17.200 a polarizing issue. And I think it's cool that you're 358 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:20.799 willing to come on have your claims be investigated. 359 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:21.880 In or criticized. I think that's awesome. 360 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:25.680 I don't mean this to be patronizing. I genuinely mean 361 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:28.519 well done in congratulations on both getting a book written 362 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:32.960 and published and on the Amazon number one for its category. 363 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:35.039 I don't mean that to be like a take. 364 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:37.920 It any that's awesome and it's much more than I've done. 365 00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:41.240 Maybe I mean this compliment to be this comment to 366 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:43.799 be a slightly patronizing. I can say that of all 367 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:46.480 the books I've ever read, this one is certainly the 368 00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:47.960 most recent. 369 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:52.000 That was my joke for the day. Okay, So the 370 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:53.359 question I actually. 371 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:56.279 Want to start out with is, in reading your book, 372 00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.559 it seems like you and correct me if I'm wrong, 373 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.359 but it's mean like you believe there is an actual 374 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:08.319 underground cult behind Hollywood. But in addition, there are times 375 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:10.720 in your book where you seem to talk about different 376 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:14.319 and separate cults Darwinian cult, Stockanism cults, which maybe those 377 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:16.599 are the same one. So I'm actually curious to know, 378 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:20.160 before we get too deep into the details of the book, 379 00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.920 just how many underground cults are at work in your 380 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:28.799 view as far as and that have a significant influence 381 00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:33.440 on population and. 382 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:33.960 Via whatever pop culture or anything. 383 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:34.799 Right. 384 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:37.960 Well, now, in the world of Hollywood, there are multiple 385 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.319 cults that are pretty well known as having a degree 386 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:45.559 of influence and a well known Hollywood retinue, right, So, 387 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:47.240 I mean, we can think of Scientology and all the 388 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.240 high level Hollywood people who've been involved in scientology. We 389 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:52.400 can think of the Nexium cult recently that was in 390 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.039 the news with the Alison Mack and Keith Rinair stories 391 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:57.440 of sex trafficking. 392 00:19:57.519 --> 00:19:59.799 We can think of the Children. 393 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:03.119 Of God col Moses Berg, who was pedophile connected to 394 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:05.400 Hollywood people who you know, this is where we get 395 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:08.599 Rose McGowan, the Phoenix family, River Phoenix and so forth. 396 00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:11.359 They come out of the Children of God cult. 397 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:16.759 So I mean, the Oto has obviously a quite. 398 00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:17.960 A few adherents in Hollywood. 399 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:21.079 Cabbalism and the Cobbolah, quite a few people have been 400 00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:22.480 influenced by that in Hollywood. 401 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:24.480 People like Rosenne talk about it pretty openly. 402 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.839 So I wouldn't be so absurd as to say that 403 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.640 there's there's only one cult. But if we were to 404 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:36.359 come up with the idea of one overwriting cult in Hollywood, 405 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:39.039 it would be actually the CIA, and the CIA is 406 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:42.960 actually treated as a as a cult, and this goes 407 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:46.079 into the history of intelligence agencies and how cults operate. 408 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:48.799 So I'm not saying that every person in the CIA 409 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:52.400 or in his history literally isn't a cultist or a Luciferian. 410 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:54.720 But if you look at the history of Skull and Bones, 411 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:56.519 the way it was set up, which is where the 412 00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:59.039 CIA comes from, Yale, Harvard and so. 413 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:02.759 Forth, they do have a very occult aspect to them. 414 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:06.680 And for me, regardless of whether you believe in anything supernatural, 415 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:09.920 really is just a question of trafficking in secrets, in 416 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:10.839 secret information. 417 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:13.799 So what we see in Hollywood is no different. We 418 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:14.440 see a lot of. 419 00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:18.559 People who are high profile who can be blackmailed. This 420 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:21.000 actually just came out with Hattie Flies today. She was 421 00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:25.119 admitting that how much of her Black Book was so important, 422 00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:31.920 and famous whistleblowers and people from prostitution and prominent madam 423 00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:37.759 positions have talked about how their work is used as blackmail, 424 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:43.079 like Henry Vinson Confessions of a DC Madam at Deborah 425 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:46.640 Parfrey and so forth, and they actually tie into at times, 426 00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:49.240 not always, but at times cults like the Franklin cover up, 427 00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:52.519 So there will be a I think you'll notice if 428 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:55.279 you research system definitely that a lot of these networks 429 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:58.119 will connect together. So I'm not saying that everybody in 430 00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:00.240 Hollywood is run by a cult or that the all 431 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.279 put through the same brainwashing. But at the top of 432 00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:05.119 a lot of these groups, you'll you'll find a lot 433 00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:09.200 of collusion. Uh And ultimately I would say that the 434 00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:12.680 Pentagon and the CIA do have a tremendous amount of 435 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:13.640 influence in Hollywood. 436 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:17.160 I can't hear the word collusion without wanting to do 437 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:18.119 my Trump impression. 438 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:19.160 There was new. 439 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:26.160 Collusion, but then the huge, huge, new, absolutely new collusion. 440 00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:27.960 Words. 441 00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:29.039 There you go. 442 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:31.200 I new where it's the best words. And now I'm 443 00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:32.039 actually trying. 444 00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:35.119 To think you two of my favorite guests that we've had. 445 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:37.960 I'm loving this. That's good. That's good. 446 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.759 So uh so with the Number one cult, and again, 447 00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:44.160 I'm never let me straw man. I'll even let you 448 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:46.519 interrupt me to prevent a straw man, even though that 449 00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:49.480 was the big rule with the Number one cult, or 450 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:52.799 at least the thing being linked altogether, this being the CIA. 451 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:55.240 I guess the concern I have and the wonder I 452 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:58.880 have after reading your book is uh, Well, would you 453 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:01.799 say first of all that the book is meant to 454 00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:05.480 expose that idea that the underlying linking. 455 00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:07.519 If there has to be a number one cult, it's 456 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:10.000 the CIA, or is there a specific cult you would 457 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:12.359 say your book is trying to reveal or just the 458 00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:15.519 idea that occultism is alive and well in Hollywood. 459 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:19.119 Well, like I said, like so sometimes you'll have something 460 00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:21.839 like the OTO, which has a lot of adherence in 461 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:24.599 Hollywood and high level finance and things like that. 462 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.440 I'm not saying that everybody in that group is part. 463 00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:30.759 Of the exact same you know, I get that a gender, right, 464 00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:36.920 But there are people who do intelligence work who are 465 00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:40.119 and have written many books on how to manipulate and 466 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:41.839 use cults. There are a lot of white papers that 467 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:44.079 have been written on how to manipulate and use cults 468 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.359 as even an experiment at times. So the purpose might 469 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.720 be different in different cases. But yeah, I would say 470 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:56.039 overall it's easily And I understand the skepticism because when 471 00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:59.599 I first came into studying this question in my undergrad 472 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:02.200 I thought, if somebody had said the CIA in Hollywood 473 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:04.279 have flipped side of the same coin back then when 474 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:05.559 I was like twenty two or three. 475 00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:06.720 I would have thought that was crazy. 476 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:10.039 But after spending a lot of time in that and 477 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.839 looking at a lot of other academics who've actually backed 478 00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:16.440 this up with their research, it's like, yeah, that's obvious 479 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:18.000 to me now, right, this is why. 480 00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:18.680 They're so there. 481 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.680 And if you look at the history of intelligence operations, 482 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.240 you can find so many famous people who did intelligence 483 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:27.000 work on the side, who were intelligence assets, like Jimmy 484 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:30.799 Stewart or Carry Grant. Julia Child worked for the OSS. 485 00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:34.720 This is fairly prominent, right. Coco Chanel was a famous spy. 486 00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:37.160 So all these people did this kind of on the 487 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:41.119 side at times. So it's not that everything is necessarily 488 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:44.799 under the religious aspect of a cult. As if, like 489 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:48.400 the CIA handler thinks, oh, everyone under me is under 490 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:51.119 my religious hand, they can just be under him in 491 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:53.480 a manipulative sense. He could just have dirt on them. 492 00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:55.759 It doesn't have to be religious in every time or 493 00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:58.799 every case. But also, I was writing my book for 494 00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:02.119 a pop audience. It's not just written for an academic audience. 495 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:04.759 If you write something just academic, you're not going to 496 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:06.359 sell a lot of books. So it had to be 497 00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:09.200 kind of also written in the language of pop culture. 498 00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.759 So at times, yeah, I'll talk about something like the Illuminati. 499 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:15.039 I don't have a problem talking about that, because while 500 00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:17.920 there are many groups that embody the idea of the 501 00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:22.680 Illuminati today, there actually is a historical Illuminati that you 502 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:25.799 can trace academically and historically in a lot of main, 503 00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:26.960 mainline history books. 504 00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:29.640 Juliet Child's. 505 00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:32.519 And perhaps. 506 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:35.839 She was in the osays. 507 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:38.720 So, and perhaps this is. 508 00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:40.799 Where our first point of conflict is going to come, 509 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:44.519 because what I'm understanding is I read this book and 510 00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:47.039 I'm trying to figure out who exactly it's exposing, and 511 00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.880 that's it's not actually easy to directly come up with that, 512 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:52.160 And I certainly wouldn't have come out with that theme 513 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.599 of if there is a connecting entity to expose, it 514 00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:59.799 would be the CIA. What I see is a book 515 00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:03.880 that at in much in a conspiratorial way, looks to 516 00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:06.920 all of these things and says, ah, if you look 517 00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:09.720 through this lens, this becomes obvious if you look through 518 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:12.119 this lens. In fact, somewhere toward the beginning of the book, 519 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:14.400 you even suggest I'm going to teach you how to 520 00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:16.200 watch it the way I watch it, And then it'll 521 00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:17.000 become obvious. 522 00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:19.400 But when I see somebody actually. 523 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:26.000 Expose a cult, expose scientology, I see money followed, I 524 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:29.640 see family lineage to some degree followed less important. But 525 00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:32.240 people are naming names and following the following them. I 526 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:38.759 mean even even in non cult exposition. Or John Oliver 527 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.400 is like my favorite person who exposes things more that 528 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:43.920 we just didn't realize was going on than was necessarily 529 00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:44.759 a giant secret. 530 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:47.079 And that's the tactic he takes. He names names, and 531 00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:48.039 he follows the money. 532 00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:51.440 And while there is some name naming, it's then dependent 533 00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:55.200 upon what if after he got done doing this work 534 00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:58.160 around the time that the moon landing was supposed to 535 00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:02.559 be happening and NASA had act sess to these Hollywood 536 00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:06.119 sound studios. It almost seems like the leap then is 537 00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:08.759 what if when he supposedly was done all of that, 538 00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:12.359 he wasn't actually done. That's I guess one of my 539 00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:14.759 primary conflicts with the book. It's a little too much 540 00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:19.799 of a confirmation bias masturbatory aid. 541 00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:22.039 If I may be crass, it's a. 542 00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:23.480 Here's how to look at it, and now if you 543 00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:25.519 look at it, look how obvious it becomes. 544 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:30.119 Right, Well, let me let's take you. Let's take it 545 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:31.759 through some specific examples. 546 00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:34.880 So let's take Kubrick and I don't say, by the way, 547 00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:37.599 I don't make the claim that Kubrick filmed the moonlandings. 548 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:38.720 So that's not in my book. 549 00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:43.400 Yeah, but it's right. But it's verifiable that Kubrick did 550 00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:46.400 work with NASA. That can easily be verified. He worked 551 00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:49.559 with Muler of NASA because they really liked the way 552 00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:52.960 he shot things, and they wanted to share insight and 553 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:57.160 information on how to do film work because obviously NASA 554 00:27:57.240 --> 00:27:59.759 is interested in camera work too, right, So whatever anybody's 555 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.319 onions of the moon landing are, it's very easy to 556 00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:06.759 verify that Kubrick collaborated with NASA. Now, again, I'm not 557 00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:08.920 saying that that means anything beyond that. 558 00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:10.000 That's I'm just saying. 559 00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:14.240 That's one example where you do see a clear working together. Now, 560 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:18.119 let me say on the claim that intelligence agencies operate 561 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:21.680 like a cult. Okay, that has been written about by 562 00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:25.079 many people in a mainline academic way. 563 00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:27.559 So one book on that is called Cloak and Gown 564 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:28.599 by Robin Winks. 565 00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:31.880 This is a famous work on the history of intelligence agencies, 566 00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:35.799 and it's specifically the history of the CIA operating like 567 00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:38.119 a cult. Right, So I don't really care whether a 568 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.519 person believes in the CIA being a cultic or not. 569 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.559 The main point is that they operate like a cult. 570 00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:47.960 And when it comes to the way that so many 571 00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:51.759 people in Hollywood, especially during the Cold War, were recruited 572 00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:56.480 into working for the FBI, Jimmy Stewart was a famous 573 00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.880 FBI asset even may he even made movies in tan 574 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:02.880 them with j Edgar Hoover. Is a famous movie called 575 00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:06.000 The FBI Story, and Jimmy Stewart's like playing all these 576 00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:08.640 different roles without throughout human history. 577 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:14.480 As the FBI. Jimmy starts the hero America and the FBI. 578 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:18.079 Right, So you can just watch that movie and you see, right, 579 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:20.640 they're a clear example of that kind of a collusion 580 00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:24.160 during the Cold War. And so I understand that these 581 00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:26.559 are a lot of different specific examples, But what I'm 582 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:28.640 saying is that when you go to something like the 583 00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:31.359 academic work, whereas it I've got it here with. 584 00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:35.039 Me operation Hollywood. 585 00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:38.119 Yeah, let me show you this book. So when I 586 00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:42.960 started looking at the question from an academic perspective, and 587 00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:46.960 this is all people from various universities who study. 588 00:29:46.599 --> 00:29:49.519 The same stuff I do. And this is put out 589 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:51.920 by David Robb and what they. 590 00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:55.559 Do is basically go through the last several decades of 591 00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:59.400 Hollywood's revisions of scripts. So this is at a very 592 00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:03.279 kind of base, not conspiratorial, just an academic look at 593 00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:06.920 the different times of the Pentagon told movies. No, you 594 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:08.839 can't do this if you want to use our aircraft 595 00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:10.799 carrier in the background, if you want to use our tanks, 596 00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:13.039 you got to do this. Oh we want this tweaked 597 00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:17.160 here because this doesn't portray America right in this Cold 598 00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:17.839 War setting. 599 00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:22.200 Blah blah blah. Countless examples. There's probably seventy. 600 00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:25.200 Eighty movies that they go through in this text, written 601 00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:28.480 by multiple scholars. Another thing I would say that that 602 00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:31.079 sort of backs up one side of this thesis is 603 00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:32.079 the famous book. 604 00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:36.039 This is put out by University of Texas professor Tricia Jenkins. 605 00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:38.960 Book The CIA in Hollywood. It's pretty expensive on Amazon. 606 00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:41.319 That's because it's like her PhD. Yeah, I think it's 607 00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:44.640 her PhD thesis, And she does the same thing. She 608 00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:47.920 goes through the history of how many times, especially in 609 00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:49.960 more recent times. So she for example, there's a whole 610 00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:56.519 chapter on jj Abrams and who's the chick from Alias, 611 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.960 Jennifer Garner, you know, working together to consult with the 612 00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:05.440 CIA on the film the series Alias. And so when 613 00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:08.119 you start to look at like Chase Brandon Milt Bearden, 614 00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:11.839 who are the two well known CIA liaisons in Hollywood, 615 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:15.000 and how they consulted on movies like Meet the Parents, 616 00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:17.079 how they consult on movies. 617 00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:20.480 Like Wag the Dog. By the way, Wag the Dog 618 00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:21.519 is about what I'm telling you about. 619 00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:24.119 There's a whole movie made about the CIA consulting with 620 00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:26.880 Hollywood and so forth. It's it's satirical, but it still, 621 00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:29.799 you know, kind of hammers the point home. So these 622 00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:32.680 are just kind of the beginning points where I started 623 00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:35.839 this journey this question. So I didn't immediately when I 624 00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:38.039 looked at these texts say, oh, then that's the illuminati 625 00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:40.240 that runs everything. No, I mean, I'm just saying, these 626 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:43.000 are academic sources. If people want peer review, you want 627 00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:46.279 hard evidence outside of my book, and all these books 628 00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:48.720 are sourced of course inside it in my book. 629 00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.279 You can look at that to begin your track down 630 00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:52.960 this rabbit hole. 631 00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:56.119 But so then what happens is if you look at 632 00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:59.079 the cult side of Hollywood that I mentioned early on, 633 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:02.960 and you said scientology, You said, what I see is money, 634 00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:03.880 what I see is fame. 635 00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:05.319 I would totally agree with you. 636 00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:07.519 I would say, many cases when people come out of 637 00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:11.680 Scientology and they like Ramini and she talks about it, 638 00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:13.599 she says, oh, they were, you know, abusing us and 639 00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:16.680 this and that, and that's all true at one level. 640 00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:20.920 But I would say, if you've read Edward Barne's book Propaganda, 641 00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:23.400 one of the things that Brene says is that the 642 00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:26.240 greatest tool for propaganda. 643 00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:27.559 The world has ever seen is Hollywood. 644 00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:30.160 And so he made that a central aspect of the 645 00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:35.279 way that the advertising because he actually went from working 646 00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:39.880 with the State Department to working with advertising and mass 647 00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:43.720 marketing to tell them how to manipulate human psychology so 648 00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:47.240 that mass advertising campaigns would be successful. Brene said that 649 00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:52.039 Hollywoo would be key to controlling and engineering people's perception. So, 650 00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:56.400 long story short, there are just countless white papers, countless 651 00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:00.480 documents that you can very easily verify from the vantage 652 00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:02.480 point of the CIA, from the vantage point of the 653 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:07.279 Pentagon think tanks that very openly discuss using so many 654 00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:13.480 movies films in this perspective of big scale social engineering. 655 00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:15.880 So even if you want to say, well, it's not 656 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:19.599 a cult, I would just say, okay, I don't care 657 00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:21.799 whether we use the word cult or not. I think 658 00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:24.559 it is like a cult, like Robin Winks's book Cloak 659 00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:29.519 and Gown says, but at least in practice, it functions 660 00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:34.720 as simply a tool to control people's perception. And that's 661 00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:37.440 why there's a giant machinery that goes into making pop 662 00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:38.960 stars as well. 663 00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:42.519 I'm certainly not going to argue that no social engineering 664 00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:45.039 happens in Hollywood. That would be ridiculous and ignorant to 665 00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:49.000 make that claim. It's more that i'm The argument I 666 00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:51.319 want to have is actually, what it almost sounded like 667 00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:54.079 you were dismissing is that this book seems to claim 668 00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:58.799 to expose precisely what that social engineering is geared toward toward. 669 00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:01.240 And it seems to me you only need to pick 670 00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:03.839 something different to do the exact same thing. And I 671 00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:06.599 could write a whole book on how these people who 672 00:34:06.680 --> 00:34:09.880 learned via through consulting with the CIA. I'll grant you 673 00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:12.280 every point, because I'm not I don't know well enough 674 00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:14.360 about all these white papers to. 675 00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:15.000 Say you're wrong. 676 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:17.159 If you are so I'll grant you all of those. 677 00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:20.039 It seems like all I need to do is go, Okay, 678 00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:23.039 what if I wanted to change my lens to Hollywood 679 00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:27.480 is trying to program us all into a monogamous, not transform, 680 00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:31.679 but maintain it into a monogamous, heteronormative culture, because that 681 00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:36.159 is the easiest thing for them to gear their social 682 00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:39.480 engineering towards. Is that's what they have traditionally worked with. 683 00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:41.880 And then I can go through and find those themes 684 00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:43.920 of still monogamy. 685 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:45.559 I just have to choose different movies. 686 00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:49.000 And in fact, what I found interesting about this book 687 00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:54.519 too is in trying to apparently expose this ginormous underlying plot, 688 00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:57.960 you chose a series of movies that a lot of 689 00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:00.519 people have seen, but I've seen less than half of them. 690 00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:03.480 So whatever this group is doing, love, I hope it's 691 00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:05.639 your new book that's going to come in with some 692 00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:08.639 examples of maybe what's And I'm a little bit younger, 693 00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:13.079 clearly I'm not over the age of fourteen, but thee 694 00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:15.960 I hope some more modern examples of how this is 695 00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:19.199 still being maintained, because otherwise it seems to me if 696 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:23.440 everything comes from that sort of restricted time period just 697 00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:27.800 as as feasible an idea that the reason the movies 698 00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:30.599 look that way is because it's what was popular in 699 00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:33.760 culture at the time. And even if these people learn 700 00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:39.119 things while doing other social engineering in these CIA plots 701 00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:44.239 or Cold war propaganda or whatever, I wouldn't expect them 702 00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.280 everything that I would expect to see similarities between the 703 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:49.840 movies they made then and the movies they made later. 704 00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:51.800 I don't. 705 00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:56.280 Again, confirmation bias is what it feels like. The whole 706 00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:58.519 book is about, here's the lens I'm going to use, 707 00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:02.239 here's the information that does. I mean, it's a it's 708 00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:04.199 a lot to think about, and it's there's a lot 709 00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:06.840 of things where it's like, Okay, why is that? But 710 00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:10.000 then it's also like why do I need to make 711 00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:13.159 that jump? So why do you see that? You can 712 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:15.599 respond to anything I said, But I'd love to see well, yeah. 713 00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:17.840 So like in the second book. Yeah, so in the 714 00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:18.719 second book. 715 00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:21.079 I bring in in the first uh several the first 716 00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:25.840 couple chapters, if I recall the concept of the various 717 00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:27.719 mafias that have had influence in Hollywood. 718 00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:30.639 So again, I feel like you're trying to push me. 719 00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:33.760 Into a position where I have to say that I'm 720 00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:39.760 consistently claiming there's only one single group that runs everything. No, Okay, 721 00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:41.719 well that's I mean, I'm very I try to be 722 00:36:41.800 --> 00:36:45.000 very nuanced, And in fact, what you're hitting on is 723 00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:47.360 something that I specifically did want to include in the sequel, 724 00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:50.519 which is the question of the mafia, and this before 725 00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:52.800 I looked into that was an area where I was 726 00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:55.079 kind of unclear how it fit in, because obviously there's 727 00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:57.000 been a lot of mob of influence in Hollywood. 728 00:36:56.599 --> 00:36:57.239 Over the decades. 729 00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:01.000 So what I tried to do was look at the 730 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:03.880 the tie in between how the mafia and the CIA 731 00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:07.360 have actually made deals and worked together at times. This 732 00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.519 is actually portrayed by the way in Mario Puzzo's The 733 00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:15.760 Godfather you have in the initial installment, he deals with 734 00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:21.599 the way that the Mafia basically told certain directors what 735 00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:24.199 movies would and wouldn't be made. And I try to 736 00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:26.840 be fair to different mafias in their influence in Hollywood. 737 00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:30.159 So there's a big, famous book called by Gus Russo 738 00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:34.480 about Sydney Korshak and his influence in the mafia in 739 00:37:35.239 --> 00:37:39.000 Hollywood and Vegas. So that's a giant, six hundred page, 740 00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:42.519 famous academic book. I've sourced that many times in the 741 00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:44.880 first few chapters of my new book. And if you 742 00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:47.679 know about the mafia, you know that they operate also 743 00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:52.920 like a cult, and I see the CIA as a mafia. 744 00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:54.199 Maybe that's a better wady to put it. 745 00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:57.000 But you'll notice that the same kind of initiation rituals 746 00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:00.320 for the Coast and Nostra for the Sicilian mafia, for 747 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:01.519 other mafias as well. 748 00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:03.280 It's very similar to the kind. 749 00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:05.719 Of initiation virtuals that if you read about Skull and 750 00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.719 Bones at Gale, the kinds of initiation that they go through, 751 00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:11.000 the oaths that have to be made, so life or 752 00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:11.440 death thing. 753 00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:13.599 You don't leave this, this is your whole life. You're 754 00:38:13.639 --> 00:38:14.320 owned by the state. 755 00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:16.760 Basically, the mafia have used it the same way, and 756 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:21.480 there have been documented historical instances declassified papers about the 757 00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:23.559 CIA and the mafia making deals together. 758 00:38:23.559 --> 00:38:24.880 For example, the Bay of Pigs. 759 00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:29.599 There were MOB connected people who were involved in the 760 00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:33.119 failed invasion, this the so called Bay of Pigs, So 761 00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:36.679 that was actually a deal between kind up question, there's. 762 00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:39.719 A distinction that I'm now having a problem with. What 763 00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:42.880 is your distinction between a cult, a religion, or a 764 00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:46.440 cult and a political party because I'm again I'm trying 765 00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:49.039 to not sound like a douche through this whole thing, 766 00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:50.199 but honestly I will. 767 00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:51.519 I don't know if I can come up with an 768 00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:53.280 organization the same question. 769 00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:56.840 Clarified by a cult. 770 00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:01.199 Right, So I mean I believe that a cult generally, yes, 771 00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:04.639 it has a religious connotation of some figure, some deity 772 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:08.639 that everybody has to submit to. And then the representation 773 00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:11.280 of the leader in the cult. You know, he has 774 00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:13.920 supreme power. This is generally what people think of when 775 00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:18.280 they think of a cult, and I'm saying that in practice. Again, 776 00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:21.400 there are many mainline academic books like Cloak and Gown 777 00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:25.119 that will show you that the functioning of intelligence agencies 778 00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:28.920 are just like cults, and the History of intelligence Agencies. 779 00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:31.039 You can read Francis the Vornix's famous book on the 780 00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:33.760 history of the rise of intelligence agencies out of Byzantium. 781 00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:36.800 These are all mainline academic works. They will make the 782 00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:39.639 same comparison. So the comparison is not something that I'm inventing. 783 00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:43.360 It's a comparison that is normative in the history of 784 00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:47.239 intelligence research. Alan Dulles in his book The Craft of Intelligence, 785 00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:51.480 he goes back to the Israelite spies to give the 786 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:56.800 earliest examples of the functioning of intelligence agencies like religious organizations. 787 00:39:57.199 --> 00:39:59.559 So I'm not the person who came up with that 788 00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:03.679 compar it's it's prevalent in the literature you can read. 789 00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:07.400 It just seems like the way you're using the word 790 00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:11.920 isn't necessarily as it certainly has its precedence and intelligence, 791 00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:16.039 and I think they probably had perhaps a more precise definition. 792 00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:18.559 I dare say, it seems like you're making the comparison 793 00:40:18.679 --> 00:40:21.519 useless because I feel I could use your use of 794 00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:25.880 act like a cult to describe virtually anything, any organization. 795 00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:30.119 It does. It does feel like you very broadly. 796 00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:34.960 Okay, But but if we talk about the way, for example, 797 00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:39.000 agents offering operates sometimes in Hollywood, if you've read any 798 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:43.039 biographies of people who've had to deal with an agent 799 00:40:43.079 --> 00:40:46.079 who you know, kind of ran their life, and especially 800 00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:48.559 as you climb up the ladder, a lot of times 801 00:40:48.599 --> 00:40:50.440 agents have a lot of power they can they can 802 00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:53.639 you know, basically like in the case of Elvis and 803 00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:58.679 his his agent, Colonel Tom. He was who supplied Elvis 804 00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:00.920 with drugs, so he had a lot of influence in 805 00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:04.480 Elvis's life. Uh, and and a lot of control by extension, 806 00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:09.199 especially as a high level military guy. So I mean, 807 00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:11.039 I think that to me, that's just a common sense 808 00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:13.280 kind of analysis. But so I'm not really getting what 809 00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:16.000 what the point is is that you're just basically saying 810 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.519 that I'm misusing the word cult. And all I was 811 00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:21.280 trying to do was to say that if you want 812 00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:25.880 to use a broad definition of psychological manipulation, then then 813 00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:26.719 you can say that. 814 00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:32.400 But I don't think, yeah, I'm not just trying to 815 00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:34.800 make a silly point of like you're using the word 816 00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:39.639 wrong for more, especially as an atheist, I hear that 817 00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:42.280 word abused a lot, the word atheists and and and 818 00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:44.880 the stretch is made and people will use or the 819 00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:46.400 word faith actually is a better. 820 00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:48.360 One to use, so I can go into your realm 821 00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:49.119 a little bit more. 822 00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:53.960 The word faith is just used so broadly, but people 823 00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:58.320 use it interchangeably in places where you can't actually necessarily 824 00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:02.039 tell which power they've given that word. And so it's 825 00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:05.239 not just the broad use, it's then the continued use 826 00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:09.239 as though it has a more significant power, more significant 827 00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:12.880 is represented more significantly, when again it seems to be 828 00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:16.159 following with that the next argument now we've got cults, 829 00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:19.679 agents act like cults. I really don't know what organization 830 00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:21.639 with any kind of head that has more power than 831 00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:25.639 than the people under couldn't be used so vaguely. But 832 00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:29.519 then when you're reading a book about exposing a cult life, 833 00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:32.119 that has a different level of power implied. 834 00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:34.559 And I don't think your use of the word cult. 835 00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:35.159 Okay. 836 00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:43.480 If a person goes against something, say that's not politically correct, right, 837 00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:47.599 it's not like a Hollywood agent has to stamp them out. Rather, 838 00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:51.559 it's known that they're not going to get the job. 839 00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:54.079 They get blacklisted. I mean, the idea of being blacklisted 840 00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:57.280 in Hollywood is very common. So so in other words, 841 00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:01.079 I'm not saying that that has to be like one 842 00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:02.840 guy at the top of a pyramid who you know, 843 00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:05.320 like makes the calls all day about who's who's killed, 844 00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:08.039 Who gets what role? What I mean in the sense 845 00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:10.559 of different studios and who gets what roles. We saw 846 00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:12.880 this with Harvey Weinstein. If you didn't screw the right person, 847 00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:15.079 if you didn't do the right stuff, you know, you 848 00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:16.639 didn't get the right roles right, and then we had 849 00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:19.840 all the meat too stuff. So that's casting couch. That's 850 00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:25.400 well known I don't think I'm going beyond anything public 851 00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:28.639 in saying that Hollywood operates like a cult. In fact, 852 00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:32.000 how many people from Hollywood have made this same claim. 853 00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:36.360 John Cusack has called Hollywood a giant prostitution slash wourhouse. 854 00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:40.760 Ben Affleck says Hollywood is full of cig agents and 855 00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:44.599 operates like an intelligence cult. I mean, to me, it 856 00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:47.039 just seems obviously, maybe just because I've been so so 857 00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:50.000 in messed in the research, that it's it's like secondhand 858 00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:51.840 to me that it seems strange that somebody would have. 859 00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:52.280 A problem with that. 860 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:56.039 But I feel like you're saying you're saying there's feel 861 00:43:56.039 --> 00:43:58.039 like you're saying there's no over You're saying there's no 862 00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:01.519 overwriting conspiracy, and I'm saying there is no but we 863 00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:01.920 don't have. 864 00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:07.079 To do Okay, Well, I'm still not in the precise critique. 865 00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:10.639 I'm saying you have come out with a precise or 866 00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:14.719 or a more precise conspiracy that your book seems to 867 00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:17.360 claim to expose the I don't think the thesis of 868 00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:20.320 the book is at all well stated in the title. 869 00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:24.559 In fact, I would say esoteric Hollywood then follows with basically, 870 00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:27.280 here's all of the reasons why esoteric hollywould exist. Once 871 00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:29.559 you already accept that it exists, here's all of the 872 00:44:29.559 --> 00:44:30.639 things you see from it. 873 00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:34.639 So I mean the book that's not true. No, I 874 00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:39.440 mean okay, But but I think you're okay. 875 00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:42.519 Maybe this is a difference in epistemology because you seem 876 00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:47.320 to think that there's a way to enter into investigations 877 00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:49.960 with neutrality, and I don't believe that there's such a 878 00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:52.679 thing as neutrality, Like there's no way to investigate a 879 00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:56.599 thing from a purely neutral stance and to determine oh well, 880 00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:57.079 I have. 881 00:44:57.079 --> 00:44:58.679 No prior experience of this thing. 882 00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:01.360 Let me then look at it, size it up, smell it, 883 00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:05.559 and through the sense data, I can make my final declaration. 884 00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:06.920 As to the truth or falsity of this thing. 885 00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:10.840 Now I'm not against empirical data, but that's a very 886 00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:15.000 naive approach to epistemology or how we learn and study things. 887 00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:19.559 So again, when I started this track, I did not 888 00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:23.800 believe that there was a significant amount of overwriting conspiracy 889 00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:26.840 in Hollywood, or that there were powerful cults in Hollywood. 890 00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:29.800 That was a later conclusion that I came to after 891 00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:31.559 a lot of years of reading on the subject. So 892 00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:35.199 I didn't come into it with that. By the way, 893 00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:39.840 the book's thesis is just simply that film and that 894 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:43.559 art form shares a lot of similarities to ritual. That's 895 00:45:43.599 --> 00:45:45.880 the very first chapter in the book is film as Ritual. 896 00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:49.760 So other artists have made that same comparison. The surrealists 897 00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:55.920 believe that their artworks role displayed a kind of ritual presentation. 898 00:45:56.360 --> 00:46:01.159 Many directors have compared their works to rich So I 899 00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:03.239 don't even think that in itself, just from a comparative 900 00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:06.119 religion stance, should should even be that that outlandish. It 901 00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:08.639 does strike people a little strange, but that's kind of 902 00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:10.920 what I wanted to do. And you're right that the 903 00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:14.159 book doesn't have necessarily a single thesis. That's because it's 904 00:46:14.199 --> 00:46:17.039 a collection of essays, so a collection of. 905 00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:23.599 Essays, and I understand that it just it seems to 906 00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:28.280 me I'm not representing the idea that it again, because 907 00:46:28.280 --> 00:46:30.639 I already said at the very beginning that it doesn't 908 00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:32.320 name names, it doesn't follow the money. 909 00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:34.519 But as far as your point about. 910 00:46:34.840 --> 00:46:39.719 Remaining, I do name names, so I'm not sure. 911 00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:43.280 Sure, yeah, you do specifically which directors were doing what 912 00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:48.159 or which movie creators are making for Hollywood and NASA. 913 00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:49.639 There are names definitely in the book. 914 00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:51.840 What I'm talking about is there is no While it 915 00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:54.679 implies this grander conspiracy, it doesn't tie all the conspiracy 916 00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:56.400 together with a bow, which I don't think you're claiming, 917 00:46:56.400 --> 00:46:58.519 and I'm not trying to represent what you did. You 918 00:46:58.599 --> 00:47:02.880 then made the point about neutral remaining neutral, and while 919 00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:06.320 I agree that it is pretty difficult to approach anything 920 00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:09.719 without bias, it feels like that was an admission on 921 00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:13.679 your source or on your end, that this book is 922 00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:16.280 written toward yourself and not toward an audience, because it 923 00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:20.280 doesn't do a good job of establishing for the audience. 924 00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:23.719 It literally just kind of to me, seems like you're saying, 925 00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:26.599 presume all of this research I did, because man, look 926 00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:29.639 at the list of things I've done all resulted in this, 927 00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:32.239 and as long as you start here, everything that follows 928 00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:32.840 will be obvious. 929 00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:35.920 We're tying back into confirmation bias. Again. I'm also not 930 00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:38.519 saying that there aren't obvious symbols in these movies, but 931 00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:41.920 there are lots of stretches made. 932 00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:45.119 Okay, well, I mean made. You've made a lot of 933 00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:49.280 these claims, which is fine. I'm open to criticism, but again, 934 00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:52.800 I wasn't conceding that the book was written from my 935 00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:55.400 own perspective. I was saying that I think that's a 936 00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:58.360 fact about human nature and experience across the board. I 937 00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:01.000 think everybody's in the same boat about there being no 938 00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:06.159 neutrality strictly speaking, so everybody by your by your definition, 939 00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:09.039 anyone who writes a paper could then be or or 940 00:48:09.639 --> 00:48:11.679 tries to make it, or tries to make a persuasive 941 00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:15.440 argument for their case, would there be therefore therefore be 942 00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:18.079 committing confirmation bias. And I think this is just simply 943 00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:18.599 a misuse. 944 00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:22.800 And I wouldn't say that represents it completely, but certainly 945 00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:26.000 anybody who relies on that, as well as other fallacies. 946 00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.239 For example, in the intro of your book, however, as 947 00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:30.760 I think you will find the popularity of my film 948 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:32.719 analysis will lend some credence to the fact that I 949 00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:33.559 am onto something. 950 00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:36.360 Now we've got a new fallacy regarding popularity. 951 00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:39.400 So I would say, with that and the other part 952 00:48:39.400 --> 00:48:41.920 of the intro that included the and I can find 953 00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:43.519 for you, because I've highlighted. 954 00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:44.639 Much of this book, if you'd like, I can find 955 00:48:44.679 --> 00:48:46.519 for the. 956 00:48:47.559 --> 00:48:51.639 Yeah, first of all, there's different ways to write different things. 957 00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:54.239 Right, So if I could take a Dostyevsky novel and 958 00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:57.639 I could pick it apart for finding fallacies in different 959 00:48:57.719 --> 00:48:59.320 characters or even trying to find a foul. 960 00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:02.679 Okay, so this is not strictly speaking a book. 961 00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:07.599 Yes, it is written to expose, but there's different types 962 00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:10.480 of writing, right, Prose, you're not going to investigate prose. 963 00:49:10.519 --> 00:49:12.079 And I use a lot of prose and a lot 964 00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:15.679 of satire, a lot of sardonic type wit and goofiness 965 00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:18.280 in the text on purpose. And so I think to 966 00:49:18.320 --> 00:49:21.320 try to dissect that as if that was fallacy is 967 00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:23.239 a little bit absurd, because that's not. 968 00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:23.719 No. 969 00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:28.519 I'm sorry if you're trying to call the fact sentence 970 00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:32.760 of satirical, I mean this is you literally setting up 971 00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:35.280 the book. Your next sentence is actually where the confromise 972 00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:38.119 nation bias comes in. Thus the reader will travel with 973 00:49:38.199 --> 00:49:41.679 me on a mental journey into the psychosphere, understand the 974 00:49:41.719 --> 00:49:44.480 semiotic system I use, and in turn be able to 975 00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:47.199 interpret the film in a deeper esoteric sense of their own. 976 00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:49.719 You're setting You're saying it's. 977 00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:53.519 A fallacy because I said my book, my analyzes are popular, 978 00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:59.119 and it's onto something. So you're going at a prosaic, popular, 979 00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:00.119 gave it, creed. 980 00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:03.159 Each other, each other, finish ahead. 981 00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:07.719 Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I'm not. 982 00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:10.320 When you write an introduction to a book, you're not 983 00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:11.559 always making an argument. 984 00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:12.599 Do you not understand that? 985 00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:19.280 Yes, I understand, I understand you setting yourself up for again, 986 00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:23.599 it's the intro to the book asks the reader to 987 00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:28.599 skip a lot and skip straight forward to here's my analysis. Now, 988 00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:30.679 I'm sorry if you guys are getting win stuff, but 989 00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:34.840 my outside just went like crazy. But here's here's where 990 00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:37.639 I'm at. Now I need you to start where I've 991 00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:41.400 already gone. You don't even make a quicker or a 992 00:50:41.480 --> 00:50:44.119 quick case for here's this, here's you've done more so 993 00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:44.679 in this. 994 00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:47.760 Actually, actually I include I include a film scholar at 995 00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:50.880 the very beginning, quoting Orson well so that the first 996 00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:54.760 quote is about Orson Wells talking about genre and the 997 00:50:54.760 --> 00:50:58.280 way genre affects our perception. And then I go into 998 00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:01.840 talking about uh, semiotics. 999 00:51:01.239 --> 00:51:02.360 And and and and Yeah. 1000 00:51:02.360 --> 00:51:04.920 I don't have no problem admitting that I have presubpositions 1001 00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:07.920 and I come to the table with my own biases. 1002 00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:09.920 But again, I think we all do that. And I 1003 00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:12.559 mean again, you could your your approach could have pick 1004 00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:15.559 apart any work of literature. And this is I grant 1005 00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:18.599 you that my book is a little bizarre because it's 1006 00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:21.320 also and that's that's part of the appeal, by the way, 1007 00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:24.239 is that it's not just academic, it's not just written 1008 00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:26.159 in a popular level. It's it's a kind of a 1009 00:51:26.199 --> 00:51:29.400 weird mix of all these things. And I intentionally wanted 1010 00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:31.000 it to be that way. So you're going to find, 1011 00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:33.599 i'm sure, a lot of fallacies. But it's also not 1012 00:51:33.800 --> 00:51:38.280 a a strict logical book. It's not a book about 1013 00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:41.679 logical argumentation. It's a book about the arts. And I 1014 00:51:41.719 --> 00:51:43.559 mean the idea that you could apply that kind of 1015 00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:47.000 approach to aesthetics and the arts is a little a 1016 00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:47.719 little strained. 1017 00:51:48.079 --> 00:51:52.760 I would say, Yeah, perhaps, I think I think you're 1018 00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:56.719 you're saying that it does rely on a lot of presuppositions, 1019 00:51:56.719 --> 00:51:59.480 so sort of makes my point for me, which is 1020 00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:02.480 that those pre but I will continue that point that 1021 00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:06.719 those presuppositions aren't justified well enough by your one quote 1022 00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:08.559 that you were talking about at the very beginning, which 1023 00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:11.440 precedes it by a few paragraphs, to ask the reader 1024 00:52:11.480 --> 00:52:13.679 to make those presuppositions themselves. 1025 00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:15.880 And because it just sort of goes on. 1026 00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:17.519 I think there are a lot of people who will 1027 00:52:17.559 --> 00:52:20.320 read this book and naturally make those presuppositions. 1028 00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:22.960 In fact, I think this book at times makes. 1029 00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:24.199 It Neil Degrass Tyson. 1030 00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:27.199 This sounds like Neil Degrass Twicon trying to dissect interstellar 1031 00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:30.480 I mean this that's not the context of what this is. 1032 00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:33.599 This is not a book that's just about me trying 1033 00:52:33.639 --> 00:52:35.920 to prove my case to you, as if it was 1034 00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:39.199 a you know, a law setting with the judge up there, 1035 00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:40.679 and can I prove my case to you? 1036 00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:43.360 I mean a lot of people are not going to. 1037 00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:48.800 Book means to expose, doesn't mean to prove. 1038 00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:52.360 Are you Are you aware that there's different ways to 1039 00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:54.480 go about exposing things. I mean, not everything has to 1040 00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:57.079 be done in a a legal court case situation. And 1041 00:52:57.119 --> 00:52:59.159 by the way, here's a little, a little, a little 1042 00:52:59.159 --> 00:53:00.719 advice for you. If if you want to have a 1043 00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:03.199 book one day, your editor is going to tell you 1044 00:53:03.519 --> 00:53:05.719 this needs to be written. I'm not being a dick. 1045 00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:07.840 I'm just saying, like what you'll go through. Your editor 1046 00:53:07.880 --> 00:53:10.039 will say, you've got to write this in a way 1047 00:53:10.199 --> 00:53:12.760 that is going to be fun to read, and people 1048 00:53:12.760 --> 00:53:14.599 are going to get a kick out of it. You 1049 00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:17.360 can't and be persuasive. You can't just write it as 1050 00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:20.199 if it were, you know, a list. 1051 00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:22.719 Of science facts or something like that. It's not going 1052 00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:23.079 to work. 1053 00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:27.000 I wonder if you would encourage me to this future editor, 1054 00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:29.079 if I write this future book, to not write a 1055 00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:32.320 book based on so many large presuppositions that I won't 1056 00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:35.760 have in common with many of my readers, but ask them. 1057 00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:37.320 You haven't specified. 1058 00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:39.880 I mean, I'm sitting here with like fifty books around 1059 00:53:39.920 --> 00:53:42.679 me that that basically back up any claim that I've made, 1060 00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:46.079 and you've not specifically told me anywhere that I'm wrong. 1061 00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:48.480 You basically just said that I've had presubpositions. But we 1062 00:53:48.519 --> 00:53:49.559 all have presubositions. 1063 00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:50.840 So what? So where am I from? 1064 00:53:50.840 --> 00:53:59.239 I haven't read just a second Steve, I think, did 1065 00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:03.559 you want to kind of tag tag into what? Because 1066 00:54:03.599 --> 00:54:05.079 I think we're kind of getting to the point where 1067 00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:08.159 we're going just you know, kind of going to servers 1068 00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:10.519 a little bit with the back and forth. Steve has 1069 00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:12.400 kind of a thing to tag onto that I think, 1070 00:54:13.719 --> 00:54:16.440 to Jimmy's point, I believe, well. 1071 00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:19.159 Yes, sort of. I mean, I mean, I'm actually kind 1072 00:54:19.159 --> 00:54:21.599 of the way Jay's describing it, And again I have 1073 00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:23.760 not read anything by you, Jay, I don't know your book. 1074 00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:26.320 For the way you're describing things, I'm actually siding with 1075 00:54:26.360 --> 00:54:29.519 you at the moment on how you did an introduction 1076 00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:31.880 to your book. I don't see an issue about how 1077 00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:34.679 you formulated the structure of what was going to be 1078 00:54:34.679 --> 00:54:36.400 introduced in the book, because you don't make an argument 1079 00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:39.960 in a an introduction of book. I do agree with 1080 00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:42.840 you that obviously we all have our presuppositions. Now, I 1081 00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:44.880 think the question though, and again I'm not trying to 1082 00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:48.119 ask this from Jimmy, but I'm trying to get the 1083 00:54:48.199 --> 00:54:51.559 life feed you know, questions posed to you, But do 1084 00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:55.000 you think that did you have some presuppositions prior to 1085 00:54:55.039 --> 00:54:59.960 the investigation of these symbols, thinking that there was something 1086 00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:01.960 to this, which I think it's fair. I mean, I 1087 00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:03.239 don't think is anything wrong with that, and then try 1088 00:55:03.239 --> 00:55:05.119 to find evidence for against it because these are not 1089 00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:08.000 scientific claims. Usually scientific claims we try to find evidence 1090 00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:11.039 to falsify your hypothesis. We grant that this is not 1091 00:55:11.159 --> 00:55:13.920 that kind of case. So would you expand about that 1092 00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:16.639 more about how europistemlogical approach was where you do have 1093 00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:19.440 these presuppositions, but you do it in what kind of 1094 00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:22.320 systematic way to justify those beliefs. 1095 00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:26.440 Yeah, this is a book written about the arts. It's 1096 00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:30.239 basically a culture commentary that touches on a lot of 1097 00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:33.400 different genres. So, like in the first chapter and then 1098 00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:37.280 the first sections, we're dealing with specific Kubrick films. 1099 00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:38.760 And I pick Kubrick just because he's so. 1100 00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:42.039 Prominent and relevant, and he does, you know, pretty obviously 1101 00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:44.039 pack his films full of a lot of symbolism. So 1102 00:55:44.360 --> 00:55:48.840 when I investigate Eyes White Shut, I look at Kubrick's experience, 1103 00:55:48.920 --> 00:55:51.360 what we know about Kubrick, things he talked about in interviews. 1104 00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:55.320 I look at the way that he places the camera. 1105 00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:57.159 I look at the colors that are used. I look 1106 00:55:57.199 --> 00:56:01.199 at the influences that probably went into to why he 1107 00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:04.320 chose traum Novella, which is a specific, you know, occult 1108 00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:11.079 influenced novel to put into a surrealist Jungian dream state film. 1109 00:56:11.159 --> 00:56:13.280 That's what the film was about, It's the dream state. 1110 00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:19.360 So it's basically an essay on interpretation or semiotics. And 1111 00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:23.599 so if you take not trying to be arrogant or condescending, 1112 00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:26.360 I'm just saying if you go, like if you take 1113 00:56:26.440 --> 00:56:29.440 a class in aesthetics, Like if you do a philosophy degree, 1114 00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:33.119 you'll have probably aesthetics. You'll have a class on art interpretation. 1115 00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:36.639 You'll try to do interpretation. You'll do what's doing in 1116 00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:38.840 literature was called a close reading. So if you have 1117 00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:40.880 a class on Dustiefki or if you have a class 1118 00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:43.920 on Shakespeare, you'll do a close reading of the text 1119 00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:47.760 where you try to argue for the interpretation of the 1120 00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:49.840 symbols that you see there. And yes, I will admit 1121 00:56:49.880 --> 00:56:53.079 that symbols oftentimes are polyvalent, which means they can have 1122 00:56:53.159 --> 00:56:57.239 multiple meanings based on wider contexts. But that's precisely because 1123 00:56:57.280 --> 00:57:00.000 of the philosophical position I have about signs and symbols 1124 00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:03.239 that I don't believe they operate outside of a context. 1125 00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:07.280 I believe there they're context situated strictly speaking, and so 1126 00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:12.440 really art interpretation for me, aesthetics for me is impossible 1127 00:57:12.519 --> 00:57:16.280 to divorce from the holistic worldview or paradigm that. 1128 00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:16.880 I come from. 1129 00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:19.679 And that's why when I write about eyes white shut, 1130 00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:23.000 I'm tying it into you know, the the Tom Cruise 1131 00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:26.719 connections to scientology. You do have the parent you know, 1132 00:57:27.159 --> 00:57:30.519 reference to the sea, the sea or soldier there. In 1133 00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:35.119 Nicole Kidman's sex Dream, you know, there's references to the 1134 00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:37.440 Garden of Eden in her sex dream. We have the 1135 00:57:37.599 --> 00:57:41.079 orgy with obviously Croleian overtones. So I try to make 1136 00:57:41.119 --> 00:57:43.679 the case that that's what's going on in this film, 1137 00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:46.079 And I look at a lot of comparative religion scholars 1138 00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:49.679 who will say this symbol tends to mean this, and 1139 00:57:49.719 --> 00:57:52.440 I'll say, does that fit this context? Well, it does 1140 00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:55.000 look like there's sorry, it does look like there's a 1141 00:57:55.119 --> 00:57:59.239 kind of goddess symbolism going on here. It does look like, 1142 00:57:59.719 --> 00:58:02.719 you know, when she says I want to give myself 1143 00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:06.079 as a ransom for Tom to save his life, that 1144 00:58:06.119 --> 00:58:08.920 the cult actually operates like an intelligence agency because they're 1145 00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:12.079 able to surveil him and so forth. So basically, again, 1146 00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:16.280 I'm looking at the totality of Kubrick's films, and one 1147 00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:21.280 prominent theme is sex trafficking and sex abuse, and I'm 1148 00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:22.599 saying that's here in this film too. 1149 00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:24.760 So is Kubert trying to tell us something? 1150 00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:26.960 I think so, I don't think that's much of a stretch, 1151 00:58:27.039 --> 00:58:29.400 especially given all of the news that's coming out about 1152 00:58:29.400 --> 00:58:31.519 Hollywood in the last several decades that this has been 1153 00:58:31.559 --> 00:58:32.960 a real problem in Hollywood. 1154 00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:36.519 So did your book mean to claim that it is 1155 00:58:36.559 --> 00:58:39.760 exposing that and it is the one exposing it, because 1156 00:58:39.800 --> 00:58:42.760 it sounds like we're My main disagreement with you this 1157 00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:45.599 is getting lost is how it's being treated like it's 1158 00:58:45.639 --> 00:58:48.639 exposing something new and then and at times that seems 1159 00:58:48.639 --> 00:58:50.079 to be the case, and then at times it seems 1160 00:58:50.119 --> 00:58:53.599 to be. Really I'm just summarizing the fifty books behind me. 1161 00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:57.719 So where is it landing on the exposing a new truth? 1162 00:58:57.760 --> 00:58:57.920 I mean? 1163 00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:00.199 Or is it just the summary of other exs this? 1164 00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:04.599 No, I mean, I think I guess the fact that 1165 00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:07.239 the book was successful and has you know, over one 1166 00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:09.559 hundred plus five star reviews, means that it's not a 1167 00:59:09.559 --> 00:59:12.119 piece of ship book and it's not just me regurgitating 1168 00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:13.079 what the other people said. 1169 00:59:13.079 --> 00:59:13.320 I mean. 1170 00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:16.519 To be a successful writer and to have the book 1171 00:59:16.519 --> 00:59:18.760 made into a movie, excuse me, into the TV show, 1172 00:59:18.760 --> 00:59:20.880 I think it requires a little bit of skill. It's 1173 00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:22.960 not just regurgitating. So that's a little bit of a 1174 00:59:22.960 --> 00:59:27.559 low blow, but that's okay. I can take it just 1175 00:59:28.760 --> 00:59:31.440 given I just answered your question by saying that the 1176 00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:33.519 book is a bunch of different kinds of things. So 1177 00:59:33.679 --> 00:59:36.599 you keep asking, I'm getting is it an expose? And 1178 00:59:36.679 --> 00:59:39.480 I'm saying there's an element of expose, So no, it's not. 1179 00:59:39.559 --> 00:59:42.480 To you understand that it seems to represent itself with 1180 00:59:42.559 --> 00:59:46.639 a title like Esoteric Hollywood, as though that is what 1181 00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:49.440 it is, and that that is what Most people, by 1182 00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:50.559 the way, are aware that. 1183 00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:53.599 You can be an interesting Are you aware that you 1184 00:59:53.599 --> 00:59:56.480 can't the cover and then to and then to sell 1185 00:59:56.519 --> 00:59:58.199 books that helps to have sex in the title. 1186 00:59:59.320 --> 01:00:01.559 Yes, I agree, is that I actually the sex quire? 1187 01:00:01.719 --> 01:00:03.119 But that part's true. 1188 01:00:03.440 --> 01:00:06.559 Let's go beyond the cover that the introduction seems to imply. 1189 01:00:06.679 --> 01:00:08.599 I agree that it has that it's going to be 1190 01:00:08.639 --> 01:00:12.239 a book of a great expose A do you acknowledge 1191 01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:15.800 that that is I think commonly among the people who 1192 01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:18.039 are going to buy your book thinking they are going 1193 01:00:18.079 --> 01:00:21.239 in about to read about the exposure of something that 1194 01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:25.920 wasn't presently obvious, and that that actually wasn't the intention 1195 01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:28.119 of the book, or that it's the intention of the 1196 01:00:28.119 --> 01:00:29.440 book was many many things. 1197 01:00:29.440 --> 01:00:33.440 It sounds like, well, everybody, do you feel you've answered 1198 01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:33.880 that question? 1199 01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:36.599 Everybody has the title. 1200 01:00:38.599 --> 01:00:40.159 I think we're kind of going back and forth on 1201 01:00:40.159 --> 01:00:41.760 this a little bit. Jay, let me try to rephrase 1202 01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:43.159 this a little bit. How much of your book do 1203 01:00:43.199 --> 01:00:44.920 you think is speculative and how much do you think 1204 01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:49.360 is actually factual? As far as your conclusion that we 1205 01:00:49.360 --> 01:00:52.239 all think we all agree to symbolism in Hollywood, I 1206 01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:54.119 don't think that's even a controversial thing, and then it 1207 01:00:54.119 --> 01:00:55.719 can all agreed book I. 1208 01:00:55.719 --> 01:00:56.360 Disagree with book. 1209 01:00:57.239 --> 01:00:59.880 Yeah, but that's a great question. 1210 01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:02.440 I would say again again, I mean, I try to 1211 01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:04.280 any of the times that I make a claim that 1212 01:01:04.360 --> 01:01:07.639 I think is substantiated, there's a footnote. So again, there's 1213 01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:13.239 three hundred and sixty three footnotes throughout the book. And yeah, again, 1214 01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:16.239 in terms of interpreting symbols, they're polly valent. So there's 1215 01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:18.400 always going to be an area of fuzziness when it 1216 01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:20.360 comes to exactly what it means, because, for. 1217 01:01:20.320 --> 01:01:22.679 Example, I don't always know Kubrick's intention. 1218 01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:24.840 I don't know the set director's intention, I don't know 1219 01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:25.960 the cinematographer's intention. 1220 01:01:26.480 --> 01:01:28.239 And again, I mean. 1221 01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:32.960 I wouldn't be in a documentary with you know, Shan 1222 01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:35.880 Stone and Oliver Stone if there wasn't something to it. 1223 01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:38.000 I mean, they read the book, it resonated within, and 1224 01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:40.559 I'm not making an appeal to authority that they're but 1225 01:01:40.599 --> 01:01:42.599 I'm saying I've talked to a lot of people who 1226 01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:45.760 are in Hollywood, so it's not just me speculating. It's 1227 01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:49.880 also people who who are Hollywood insiders and famous in 1228 01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:51.920 Hollywood have read the book and liked the book quite 1229 01:01:51.920 --> 01:01:54.719 a bit. So I think that speaks to its credibility, 1230 01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:56.239 which it wouldn't have if it was just like a 1231 01:01:56.320 --> 01:01:59.039 tabloid rag or something something like that. So I would 1232 01:01:59.079 --> 01:02:03.320 say probably thirty percent of the book is speculative, and 1233 01:02:03.400 --> 01:02:07.199 probably seventy percent of the book is pretty solidly sourced. 1234 01:02:08.280 --> 01:02:09.960 How is Oliver Stone in real life? 1235 01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:13.280 I'm just curious. I haven't spent a lot of time 1236 01:02:13.320 --> 01:02:13.599 with him. 1237 01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:15.719 I've spent a good bit of time with Shanstone, and 1238 01:02:16.360 --> 01:02:18.519 you know, I was in that documentary with Oliver. But 1239 01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:21.760 I think Oliver's a smart, smart guy. I think he's 1240 01:02:23.199 --> 01:02:25.800 I don't agree with all of his political opinions, but 1241 01:02:27.400 --> 01:02:29.159 you know, I think he makes really good films at 1242 01:02:29.159 --> 01:02:31.079 times that have been pretty conspiratorial. 1243 01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:32.800 That's one reason I like him is. 1244 01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:36.360 That he's not afraid to delve into Hollywood conspiracy and 1245 01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:39.320 history conspiracy and actually one of the things that prompted 1246 01:02:39.360 --> 01:02:41.280 the book was I took a college course. 1247 01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:43.400 One of my film classes was. 1248 01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:46.920 Hollywood history and the point of the class was to 1249 01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:51.199 compare historical events as best we can trace them with 1250 01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:54.239 the way Hollywood represented them. 1251 01:02:54.280 --> 01:02:55.679 And there was a fascinating. 1252 01:02:55.199 --> 01:02:59.079 Class, and quite obviously a lot of those were Stone films. 1253 01:02:59.079 --> 01:03:01.239 So that was kind of what produced me to the 1254 01:03:01.280 --> 01:03:04.599 real Oliver Stone canon of films. And I think he's 1255 01:03:04.639 --> 01:03:08.400 pretty phenomenal in that regard. But you know, this is 1256 01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:10.519 a working premise that Stone has, so you know this 1257 01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:13.639 wasn't all just my idea. You know, he gives a 1258 01:03:13.679 --> 01:03:15.599 lot of interviews where he talks about the same kind 1259 01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:18.199 of stuff, very critical of American foreign policy. 1260 01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:20.000 That was the point of a lot of the war films. 1261 01:03:20.519 --> 01:03:24.079 But but no, I spent more more time hanging out 1262 01:03:24.119 --> 01:03:26.320 with Sean Stone than. 1263 01:03:25.599 --> 01:03:31.679 Oliver brought something up. I love he's very good, no 1264 01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:34.079 question about it. But you brought something up earlier. Maybe 1265 01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:35.920 we can dive into a little but you had actually 1266 01:03:35.960 --> 01:03:38.679 mentioned something about these symbols being from a hermetic approach. 1267 01:03:39.719 --> 01:03:42.079 Why do you think these symbols are out there from 1268 01:03:42.079 --> 01:03:45.639 a her medical approach? To what to what consequence, What 1269 01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:48.400 is the goal of these symbols existing for that reason 1270 01:03:49.039 --> 01:03:50.000 in these films? 1271 01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:53.159 Right, That's another thing I would say is determined by context. 1272 01:03:53.599 --> 01:03:57.800 So sometimes there's directors who are pretty self consciously interested 1273 01:03:57.840 --> 01:04:00.800 in her meticism, and they're open about it they put 1274 01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:03.519 in their films. I mean, Darren Aronofsky, I've done a 1275 01:04:03.519 --> 01:04:05.280 bunch of analysis. I don't think any of his analysis 1276 01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:08.360 made it into the first book. But you know, Aeronofsky 1277 01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:10.960 is pretty consciously influenced by Cobbolism. 1278 01:04:12.159 --> 01:04:14.639 You know, he talks about that. It's very clear, I would. 1279 01:04:14.360 --> 01:04:18.760 Say in most of his movies, especially something like The Fountain, 1280 01:04:21.039 --> 01:04:23.880 I think, or his version of Noah, which was influenced 1281 01:04:23.880 --> 01:04:27.079 by cabalistic tradition about Noah. 1282 01:04:27.119 --> 01:04:28.920 A lot of other directors will talk about it. 1283 01:04:29.400 --> 01:04:29.519 You know. 1284 01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:31.719 Kubrick I think, has a lot of esoteric symbolism in 1285 01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:35.000 his films. There's a quote by Kubert where he talks 1286 01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:37.599 about it, and he's a little ambiguous as always to 1287 01:04:37.679 --> 01:04:39.599 keep that air of mystery as to what his real 1288 01:04:39.679 --> 01:04:44.960 views are on these things. But I would say, again, 1289 01:04:45.079 --> 01:04:48.199 the purpose of why you would use alchemical symbolism could 1290 01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:48.840 be manifold. 1291 01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:52.199 So a lot of people in Hollywood are part of Freemasonry. 1292 01:04:53.079 --> 01:04:58.719 That's pretty easily verified, and Freemasonry has a pretty wide 1293 01:04:58.760 --> 01:05:01.440 scope of symbolism. I view it as kind of another 1294 01:05:01.599 --> 01:05:03.880 version of again like intelligence agencies. If you look at 1295 01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:08.880 the history of Freemasonry, it's really the British Empire's extension 1296 01:05:09.039 --> 01:05:15.000 of its spy network. There's a famous book, Jacobson, Builders 1297 01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:18.079 of Empire. It's a completely academic work, not conspiracy work, 1298 01:05:18.760 --> 01:05:20.960 and her whole thing is the history of the British 1299 01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:24.639 Empire's relationship to its free Masonic lodges, and she basically 1300 01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:26.519 says that the whole purpose was to have a spy 1301 01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:30.239 network throughout the Empire. And again that's kind of again 1302 01:05:31.119 --> 01:05:33.840 pointing to the whole thesis of what we were arguing 1303 01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:36.719 in the first hour, was that there's a close connection. 1304 01:05:36.360 --> 01:05:37.599 Between these two entities. 1305 01:05:38.119 --> 01:05:40.760 And then you have in Hollywood again a lot of Freemasons. 1306 01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:44.800 So when you watch movies that self consciously I would say, 1307 01:05:44.840 --> 01:05:47.639 are Masonic, a lot of times there's Masonic symbolism quite 1308 01:05:47.920 --> 01:05:50.360 you know, like self consciously, the square and compass. 1309 01:05:50.400 --> 01:05:52.039 This comes up in films quite a bit. 1310 01:05:52.960 --> 01:05:55.039 It's therefore a reason and it just depends on the 1311 01:05:55.039 --> 01:05:59.599 context as to what that reason is. But I would say, 1312 01:05:59.639 --> 01:06:03.119 like if you're watching a film like something, trying to 1313 01:06:03.159 --> 01:06:07.119 think of something that's specifically alchemical, I would say, I 1314 01:06:07.119 --> 01:06:10.559 would say two thousand and one is an alchemical evolutionary 1315 01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:14.840 notion of apotheosis that that man will evolve to being 1316 01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:17.360 star child. I don't think that's too controversial. 1317 01:06:17.440 --> 01:06:20.000 Arthur C. Clark, you know, says that's that's. 1318 01:06:19.840 --> 01:06:23.920 The normal way of viewing that movie, right right. 1319 01:06:24.559 --> 01:06:27.480 So I would say in that sense, alchemy could be 1320 01:06:27.559 --> 01:06:31.920 read as the story of man's progress from ape to 1321 01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:35.719 you know, divinity, and that can be read alchemic. That's 1322 01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:40.000 the great work of alchemy, according to some alchemists. 1323 01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:44.639 Jimmy, do you want to do Yeah? 1324 01:06:44.679 --> 01:06:48.000 Yeah, So is the purpose of presenting the idea of 1325 01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:53.320 ape to man to robot figure in the future is 1326 01:06:53.320 --> 01:06:56.920 that I don't understand what the correlation is with the 1327 01:06:57.400 --> 01:07:01.119 motivation for the conspiracy. Are we talking about trying to 1328 01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:04.440 program people to believe in evolution, which definitely is something 1329 01:07:04.480 --> 01:07:07.079 you reject later in your book. In fact, you call 1330 01:07:07.559 --> 01:07:11.639 Richard Dawkins and his cult silly, their classical notions of 1331 01:07:11.639 --> 01:07:15.760 God silly. You talk about how that's sort of reinforced 1332 01:07:15.800 --> 01:07:18.800 by e T Is that what's going on in two 1333 01:07:18.800 --> 01:07:21.079 thousand and one in your opinion too, just the reinforcement 1334 01:07:21.079 --> 01:07:24.119 of the idea that evolution is true, but by cult 1335 01:07:24.159 --> 01:07:26.239 means and not by actually rational means. 1336 01:07:27.880 --> 01:07:31.719 Yeah, absolutely, I think that. I argue, if I recall 1337 01:07:31.800 --> 01:07:35.880 from that section, that people like H. G. Wells have 1338 01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:39.719 had a lot more influence in determining people's perception of 1339 01:07:39.800 --> 01:07:44.400 their origins than any sort of scientific diatribe. 1340 01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:48.119 And certainly scientific diet tribes can have an influence, but 1341 01:07:49.280 --> 01:07:50.440 I would say somebody like HG. 1342 01:07:50.559 --> 01:07:53.119 Wells has had a lot more influence than somebody like 1343 01:07:53.119 --> 01:07:56.760 even Dawkins, because ah C. Wells has just been It's 1344 01:07:57.159 --> 01:08:00.639 hard to believe the degree to which he influenced so 1345 01:08:00.679 --> 01:08:04.360 many storytellers, so much science fiction, so much of Hollywood. 1346 01:08:04.440 --> 01:08:06.639 Spielberg, right, you know. 1347 01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:10.239 Spielberg makes movies dedicated like you know, he remakes War 1348 01:08:10.280 --> 01:08:12.199 of the World. I mean, obviously, yes, it's a cash cow, 1349 01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:14.800 but but a lot of these people are not just 1350 01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:19.119 doing cash cow stuff. There's a famous white paper from 1351 01:08:19.159 --> 01:08:21.960 the Brookings Institute from the sixties. I can get the 1352 01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:23.720 book if you want me to. I'll tell you what 1353 01:08:23.720 --> 01:08:27.239 it is, but they'd studied the effects of promoting the 1354 01:08:27.279 --> 01:08:33.159 alien myth and how that would alter alter culture. So 1355 01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:34.680 I mean, you're just off the top of my head, 1356 01:08:34.680 --> 01:08:36.880 that's one white paper from Brookings Institute back in the 1357 01:08:36.880 --> 01:08:40.039 sixties that studied the possibility the alien myth being used 1358 01:08:40.039 --> 01:08:43.279 to alter culture. And I actually have some interviews with 1359 01:08:43.399 --> 01:08:46.960 people from academic background on the history of aliens, which 1360 01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:48.159 I don't believe in aliens at all. 1361 01:08:48.199 --> 01:08:50.039 In fact, i'd always try to debunk. 1362 01:08:49.760 --> 01:08:52.640 Them that you made that point in the book as well, 1363 01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:54.760 that you don't believe. I mean, it seems like you 1364 01:08:54.760 --> 01:08:57.720 don't even believe in the possibility of life being anywhere 1365 01:08:57.720 --> 01:09:01.079 on Earth. And you even I don't know how this 1366 01:09:01.159 --> 01:09:03.239 exactly ties into the book, because it did. It seemed 1367 01:09:03.279 --> 01:09:05.600 to be just sort of added in. But how absurd 1368 01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:11.439 and silly people like Dawkins seem because they acknowledge, for example, 1369 01:09:11.520 --> 01:09:15.600 the possibility without actually committing to it, of something like 1370 01:09:15.680 --> 01:09:19.479 pan spermia being a reasonable explanation for the origin of 1371 01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:22.520 life on our planet or perhaps other planets, though they 1372 01:09:22.560 --> 01:09:25.800 would also continue that whatever the origin prior to that, where. 1373 01:09:25.680 --> 01:09:27.640 It came from, would also be of natural origin. 1374 01:09:28.960 --> 01:09:30.760 Yeah, and that's because I was making. 1375 01:09:31.199 --> 01:09:33.239 The point I was making was that Dawkins is very 1376 01:09:33.239 --> 01:09:37.920 hostile to the Christian idea of theism generally speaking, but 1377 01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:39.680 not hostile to the idea of aliens. 1378 01:09:39.680 --> 01:09:41.640 And I find that laughable personally. 1379 01:09:41.680 --> 01:09:44.199 But why do you find that laughable? One of those 1380 01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:45.840 has a natural explanation. 1381 01:09:49.520 --> 01:09:51.720 The other thing I would say is that that section 1382 01:09:51.840 --> 01:09:53.920 is not there out of place. 1383 01:09:53.960 --> 01:09:54.960 It's not out of nowhere. 1384 01:09:55.039 --> 01:09:57.880 That section is there because that chapter was dedicated to 1385 01:09:57.960 --> 01:10:00.640 talking about the influence in ag Wells. And one of 1386 01:10:00.680 --> 01:10:02.920 the things that hgu Wells influenced a lot of people 1387 01:10:02.960 --> 01:10:08.079 towards was scientific naturalism, right, And I'm very critical of that. 1388 01:10:08.199 --> 01:10:11.840 I have countless debates and and essays critiquing naturalism. So 1389 01:10:12.239 --> 01:10:14.880 to answer what you just asked, No, I don't find 1390 01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:17.319 that to be a more naturalistic explanation at all, because 1391 01:10:17.399 --> 01:10:20.079 naturalism itself, that I think is philosophically indefensible. 1392 01:10:21.239 --> 01:10:23.600 We can we clarify, just for purposes of clarification, are 1393 01:10:23.560 --> 01:10:26.680 you talking about ontological naturalism or mythological naturalism or both? 1394 01:10:28.199 --> 01:10:30.760 I mean in the metaphysical sense that what exists is 1395 01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:32.319 essentially material. 1396 01:10:33.520 --> 01:10:36.199 Reduction. So with that. 1397 01:10:36.279 --> 01:10:39.840 Regard, then you would not see any distinction in how 1398 01:10:39.960 --> 01:10:44.159 laughable the claim of panspermia is compared to the idea 1399 01:10:44.239 --> 01:10:48.159 that some chemical process on Earth without any sort of 1400 01:10:48.520 --> 01:10:51.640 asteroid bringing it from somewhere else, resulted in a self 1401 01:10:51.680 --> 01:10:54.159 replicating molecule that was able to adapt over time and 1402 01:10:54.199 --> 01:10:58.520 select it for the natural selection. Those are both laughable propositions, 1403 01:10:58.560 --> 01:11:02.319 despite being used to almost be like, look at this 1404 01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:06.159 absurd thing that he thinks could be possible, it's not 1405 01:11:06.399 --> 01:11:08.760 actually any more absurd than anything. 1406 01:11:08.840 --> 01:11:11.199 Richard Dawkins is saying. 1407 01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:16.600 No, I find them both laughable, okay. 1408 01:11:16.319 --> 01:11:18.279 And so, and I'm not gonna I won't bring it 1409 01:11:18.319 --> 01:11:19.920 back to the point of the introduction, because it seems 1410 01:11:19.960 --> 01:11:22.720 like everybody was tired of talking about now. Later on 1411 01:11:22.760 --> 01:11:25.239 in the book, it again seems like the way you 1412 01:11:25.359 --> 01:11:29.760 choose to use language is to establish things without context 1413 01:11:29.800 --> 01:11:32.439 so that they go straight to the conclusion of Because 1414 01:11:32.439 --> 01:11:34.119 a lot of people, when they do hear pansperm me 1415 01:11:34.159 --> 01:11:36.960 at first, that does seem absurd and crazy. And I'm 1416 01:11:36.960 --> 01:11:39.760 not going to fault you for not creating every distinction. 1417 01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:43.560 But again, in this case, we're talking about presuppositions that 1418 01:11:43.640 --> 01:11:46.640 nobody even knows which ones they're meant to have. Uh, 1419 01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:53.079 And so I wonder if that, now now pointed out 1420 01:11:53.119 --> 01:11:55.600 in two places, is a recurring theme and if again 1421 01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:59.119 I'm I really just think this book is literally confromisation 1422 01:11:59.239 --> 01:12:00.000 biased the novel. 1423 01:12:00.640 --> 01:12:03.560 That's That's what it comes down to it. Look at 1424 01:12:03.560 --> 01:12:04.000 it this way. 1425 01:12:04.119 --> 01:12:07.159 Just these things as silly, and you get my book 1426 01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:08.560 completely and as long as. 1427 01:12:08.439 --> 01:12:10.279 You commit to I mean, it will be a super 1428 01:12:10.359 --> 01:12:11.279 dope weed trip. 1429 01:12:12.319 --> 01:12:14.920 I have a whole bunch of essays that are written 1430 01:12:14.920 --> 01:12:18.880 from the vanta's point of arguing and confirming a case 1431 01:12:18.920 --> 01:12:21.000 in a strict logical sense. So, for example, I have 1432 01:12:21.039 --> 01:12:25.119 a paper on uh, transcendental arguments and relationship to numbers. Okay, 1433 01:12:25.119 --> 01:12:28.760 I have papers on number theory, right that those are 1434 01:12:28.840 --> 01:12:32.960 strictly logical arguments. They're not written in the style of 1435 01:12:34.199 --> 01:12:37.319 halfway satire tongue in cheek at times. I mean, if 1436 01:12:37.319 --> 01:12:40.000 you read the analysis I did of Labyrinth, or uh, 1437 01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:42.600 the analysis I did of Never Any Story, I mean, 1438 01:12:42.640 --> 01:12:44.640 they're their tongue in cheek, they're funny, but they also 1439 01:12:44.760 --> 01:12:48.560 bring in aspects of things that are that are real. 1440 01:12:48.680 --> 01:12:51.039 Like Michael Inda, you know, he's he was a Crollian. 1441 01:12:51.079 --> 01:12:53.960 I think that influenced his his writing of The never 1442 01:12:54.039 --> 01:12:57.960 Ending Story. So again I think you're you're hung up 1443 01:12:58.000 --> 01:13:00.800 on something that is not. This is not a book 1444 01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:04.159 about apologetics. Yes, at times there will be things where 1445 01:13:04.159 --> 01:13:06.319 I will make equips and I'll say I think Richard 1446 01:13:06.359 --> 01:13:10.960 Dawkins is ridiculous, But again that's not You're trying to 1447 01:13:11.039 --> 01:13:13.720 find arguments when that wasn't the point of that essay. 1448 01:13:13.920 --> 01:13:16.159 The part of the essay was to talk about propaganda, 1449 01:13:16.960 --> 01:13:19.239 and yeah, how I use my own propaganda. 1450 01:13:19.479 --> 01:13:23.239 Sure, and it's largely spective and that part's fun. And 1451 01:13:23.279 --> 01:13:24.920 I don't. Again, I don't disagree there's this. 1452 01:13:25.520 --> 01:13:25.880 I don't. 1453 01:13:26.079 --> 01:13:28.479 I'm not agreeing that lots of the thaims you're making 1454 01:13:28.479 --> 01:13:30.479 actually come to that end. But I do think that 1455 01:13:30.520 --> 01:13:34.399 the symbols oftentimes were used purposefully. 1456 01:13:34.439 --> 01:13:36.159 However, not for the. 1457 01:13:36.039 --> 01:13:40.079 Ends of of sort of brainwashing a society into being 1458 01:13:40.159 --> 01:13:44.520 either accepting or an unaware member of this cult. 1459 01:13:45.359 --> 01:13:46.359 Because again, then. 1460 01:13:46.239 --> 01:13:48.760 You you need only change which lends you look through 1461 01:13:48.800 --> 01:13:51.600 to make the exact same case for literally anything. 1462 01:13:52.119 --> 01:13:53.319 So the problems I have. 1463 01:13:53.279 --> 01:13:55.359 Are these where let me make, let me make let 1464 01:13:55.399 --> 01:13:56.520 me put this to you in an easy way. Do 1465 01:13:56.520 --> 01:14:00.279 you know what ethnography is I'm not I'm not, you know. 1466 01:14:01.239 --> 01:14:03.119 So if you read about the CIA, what they'll do 1467 01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:05.560 is that when they go into any culture to try 1468 01:14:05.600 --> 01:14:07.840 to figure out what's going on to manipulate it, they'll 1469 01:14:07.880 --> 01:14:09.239 do ethnographic studies. 1470 01:14:09.279 --> 01:14:11.359 This is one of the major things that the CIA does. 1471 01:14:11.399 --> 01:14:14.199 So Margaret Meade and people like that there classic is 1472 01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:16.239 that I'm not saying she was working with the CIA necessarily. 1473 01:14:16.239 --> 01:14:17.600 I think she was part of other. 1474 01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:22.359 Philosophical groups, but a lot of anthropologists have actually been 1475 01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:24.960 working for the CIA, and what they do is they 1476 01:14:24.960 --> 01:14:29.119 produce studies that are called ethnographies, and what they'll do 1477 01:14:29.239 --> 01:14:32.760 is they'll figure out everything in a people group, down 1478 01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:37.039 to their linguistic idiosyncrasies and how they'll pronounce things in 1479 01:14:37.079 --> 01:14:39.439 a strange way. And the reason that you do in 1480 01:14:39.520 --> 01:14:43.399 ethnography to that extreme extent is to figure out how 1481 01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:46.560 to engage with that culture and how to move. 1482 01:14:46.399 --> 01:14:47.960 Them in the direction that you want. 1483 01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:51.880 So again, this is something very easily verified on the 1484 01:14:51.920 --> 01:14:54.680 part of the CIA, and I think if you think 1485 01:14:54.680 --> 01:14:57.600 about their perspective of America and how they would like 1486 01:14:57.680 --> 01:15:00.840 to sway American opinion, you know, with people with so 1487 01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:03.279 many people in media that have come out of the CIA, 1488 01:15:03.439 --> 01:15:08.000 Robert Behar, Anderson Cooper, well known people. There's I don't 1489 01:15:08.000 --> 01:15:11.439 think it should be even contentious that they're going to 1490 01:15:11.640 --> 01:15:14.239 look at film. They're going to look at those kinds 1491 01:15:14.279 --> 01:15:16.920 of things in the same way to try to sway opinion. 1492 01:15:17.079 --> 01:15:20.760 So when I'm making a case in the book specifically, 1493 01:15:20.840 --> 01:15:22.640 it's that kind of a case. It's that kind of 1494 01:15:22.640 --> 01:15:25.960 a thing to show clear collusion between two entities that 1495 01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:28.399 we tend to think don't have any relationship together, like 1496 01:15:28.560 --> 01:15:31.159 the Pentagon in Hollywood, you know, unless you were, you know, 1497 01:15:31.239 --> 01:15:33.079 raised in a military family or something like that. 1498 01:15:33.359 --> 01:15:36.720 So so again I'm just not saying, let. 1499 01:15:36.640 --> 01:15:39.119 Me, let me interject, it's not as good where it stops. 1500 01:15:39.199 --> 01:15:43.680 Go ahead, because we're hitting close to the. 1501 01:15:45.159 --> 01:15:48.119 Right the ninety minute mark, and I think this will 1502 01:15:48.159 --> 01:15:50.399 be a good time to there's some questions that the 1503 01:15:50.439 --> 01:15:53.399 people in the live chat have. We're going to get 1504 01:15:53.439 --> 01:15:57.159 to those real quick. I have a couple of my own. 1505 01:15:57.760 --> 01:16:00.199 Mine are always the questions that I always come up 1506 01:16:00.239 --> 01:16:03.680 with our silly based though they're just having to be 1507 01:16:03.760 --> 01:16:06.640 random questions that I think about as we go along. 1508 01:16:07.239 --> 01:16:09.520 Since you're a conspiracy theorist, person while we get while 1509 01:16:09.520 --> 01:16:12.119 Steve gets the question from live chat. Guys, if you're 1510 01:16:12.159 --> 01:16:14.079 in the live chat, this is your last chance to 1511 01:16:14.079 --> 01:16:16.520 get your questions in. She goes over to Steve. He 1512 01:16:16.560 --> 01:16:23.079 will ask them. But I wouldn't consider myself very conspiracy 1513 01:16:23.600 --> 01:16:27.079 theory minded, but there is one that I buy into 1514 01:16:27.880 --> 01:16:30.880 rather hard, and I want to know if you have 1515 01:16:31.000 --> 01:16:33.600 any kind of dealings with it, since that's the case 1516 01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:37.199 for you. But I am a hardcore proponent that there 1517 01:16:37.399 --> 01:16:41.640 is a cover up with the Sphinx and how old 1518 01:16:42.159 --> 01:16:44.800 it is and if there was a civilization prior to 1519 01:16:45.680 --> 01:16:46.920 what they say in Egypt. 1520 01:16:47.960 --> 01:16:53.199 Kyle speak's conspiracy you're talking about, Like, Like, I've read 1521 01:16:53.199 --> 01:16:55.239 Graham Hancock's book on that and I thought there were 1522 01:16:55.239 --> 01:16:57.479 some interesting things, but I don't, Yeah, I don't, I 1523 01:16:57.479 --> 01:16:57.920 don't have. 1524 01:17:01.119 --> 01:17:04.079 I don't have a committed opinion on that. I don't know. 1525 01:17:05.840 --> 01:17:06.560 I thought. 1526 01:17:09.720 --> 01:17:11.640 I thought the book was interesting, but. 1527 01:17:11.319 --> 01:17:13.720 But yeah, it is interesting. 1528 01:17:13.920 --> 01:17:14.199 I don't. 1529 01:17:14.199 --> 01:17:16.039 I don't go as far as as as he does, 1530 01:17:16.279 --> 01:17:19.079 like in terms of because he's got some out there, 1531 01:17:19.199 --> 01:17:21.880 but like beliefs in terms of the Annaki and the 1532 01:17:21.960 --> 01:17:24.159 beer and all that. 1533 01:17:24.319 --> 01:17:27.079 But it's just the Sphinx that I buy into I'm 1534 01:17:27.279 --> 01:17:28.560 I'm sold on the. 1535 01:17:30.239 --> 01:17:33.800 I thought the map, the peri RAS map chapter was 1536 01:17:33.840 --> 01:17:37.119 interesting and the lay lines are interesting, But you know, 1537 01:17:37.159 --> 01:17:39.479 I don't I don't have any committed opinion on that. 1538 01:17:40.399 --> 01:17:42.840 It is odd how everything is on that one line 1539 01:17:43.319 --> 01:17:48.520 around the globe, how every mega structures. 1540 01:17:48.680 --> 01:17:51.119 Another question is, uh, do you think that. 1541 01:17:53.520 --> 01:17:56.239 The with with the way that the CIA and FBI 1542 01:17:56.279 --> 01:18:00.319 operated in Hollywood, do you think that had any kind 1543 01:18:00.319 --> 01:18:03.840 of effect on what happened with Marilyn Monroe? Would you 1544 01:18:03.880 --> 01:18:07.159 say that kind of you know, did she get caught 1545 01:18:07.199 --> 01:18:09.439 up in something that she was taken out, you know, 1546 01:18:09.439 --> 01:18:12.159 because a lot of people say that she was killed 1547 01:18:12.319 --> 01:18:13.159 she did an overdose. 1548 01:18:14.119 --> 01:18:16.760 I think that's very likely. I mean, she did work 1549 01:18:16.800 --> 01:18:19.199 for the Department of Defense. That's verified. You can look 1550 01:18:19.279 --> 01:18:23.079 up her DoD badge that she used. 1551 01:18:23.399 --> 01:18:25.239 She was a. 1552 01:18:24.800 --> 01:18:30.000 Frequent visitor to Laurel Canyon Studios, which, if you're familiar 1553 01:18:30.039 --> 01:18:31.479 with my book, I put that in there from Dave 1554 01:18:31.520 --> 01:18:35.359 McGowan's book. So that was a secret Air Force studio, 1555 01:18:35.399 --> 01:18:39.199 by the way, which wasn't really known about until pretty recently. 1556 01:18:40.039 --> 01:18:42.560 That and I went and visited this place firsthand, by 1557 01:18:42.600 --> 01:18:44.640 the way, So I have empirical evidence. I got a 1558 01:18:44.640 --> 01:18:47.800 picture right out in front of it with my girlfriend. 1559 01:18:47.399 --> 01:18:50.119 And I and that's now Jared Ledo's house. By the way. 1560 01:18:50.159 --> 01:18:54.319 He owns the old Air Force studio in Hollywood, which 1561 01:18:54.359 --> 01:18:56.399 was actually the cutting edge studio of his time. They 1562 01:18:56.520 --> 01:19:00.000 produced the atomic bomb footage and everything. So Laurel Canyon 1563 01:19:00.279 --> 01:19:02.920 is a good thing to look at for older Air 1564 01:19:02.960 --> 01:19:06.680 Force CI a collusion with Hollywood, but I would say 1565 01:19:06.680 --> 01:19:08.880 it's very likely. I've read a couple of books on 1566 01:19:09.039 --> 01:19:12.560 the Marilyn Monroe situation, and I think that given she's 1567 01:19:12.760 --> 01:19:15.920 with JFK and there's that tie in with the CIA 1568 01:19:16.039 --> 01:19:19.840 and the Mob and Sinatra, she wrote she claimed, you 1569 01:19:19.840 --> 01:19:22.399 know that she was kind of under constant surveillance and 1570 01:19:23.159 --> 01:19:26.199 uh that that they were given her pills. I'm sure 1571 01:19:26.199 --> 01:19:28.159 she wanted pills. I'm not saying it was you know, 1572 01:19:28.760 --> 01:19:30.920 I'm sure she was addicted to drugs. But I would 1573 01:19:30.920 --> 01:19:33.399 say probably likely. Although you know, I don't claim to 1574 01:19:33.479 --> 01:19:36.840 have like any definitive opinion on like, you know, murder 1575 01:19:36.880 --> 01:19:37.760 conspiracies like that. 1576 01:19:37.800 --> 01:19:39.680 I think Britney Murphy was probably killed. 1577 01:19:41.039 --> 01:19:42.560 Kyle, do you mind if I ask a couple now 1578 01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:47.079 that we're on the committed or the conspiracy's topic, because 1579 01:19:47.359 --> 01:19:48.000 because you bought them. 1580 01:19:49.119 --> 01:19:51.600 But sure, I just want to say that sounds like 1581 01:19:51.640 --> 01:19:53.800 that that's such a jered thing to do. 1582 01:19:55.199 --> 01:20:00.000 Oh yeah, yeah, it's a full house too. It's awesome. 1583 01:20:00.039 --> 01:20:00.159 OK. 1584 01:20:00.680 --> 01:20:03.359 I'm curious if you have a committed opinion on You 1585 01:20:03.399 --> 01:20:05.399 brought it up, but you already said that that wasn't 1586 01:20:05.399 --> 01:20:07.560 a representation of any You weren't committing to anything on 1587 01:20:07.600 --> 01:20:09.880 the moon landing, conspiracy or the studio. I want to 1588 01:20:09.920 --> 01:20:12.560 know if you have a committed opinion on the moon 1589 01:20:12.680 --> 01:20:15.319 landing and the use of the studio. But as you 1590 01:20:15.319 --> 01:20:17.920 do in the book, at least mention I'm pretty sure 1591 01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:20.760 you say that some of the footage for sure was 1592 01:20:20.840 --> 01:20:22.840 done from the studio. But if I'm wrong, correct me. 1593 01:20:23.600 --> 01:20:25.359 I don't mention any specific studio. 1594 01:20:25.840 --> 01:20:29.000 I say that I think it's likely that it could 1595 01:20:29.000 --> 01:20:32.680 have been Lookout Mountain or something like that. But no, 1596 01:20:32.840 --> 01:20:36.560 I tend to disagree. I tend to doubt the images 1597 01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:40.560 and the photography that we've seen. I find Dave mcgawan's 1598 01:20:40.560 --> 01:20:42.800 book Wagging the Moon Doggie to be the most convincing. 1599 01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:45.359 I don't really go into the look at the angle 1600 01:20:45.399 --> 01:20:48.319 of the shadow on the flag, or rather, what Dave 1601 01:20:48.359 --> 01:20:50.760 does in his book is just source it from NASA's 1602 01:20:50.800 --> 01:20:54.159 own claims over the years, claims of different astronauts over 1603 01:20:54.159 --> 01:20:56.800 the years. And yeah, I mean, I'm not a flat earther. 1604 01:20:56.920 --> 01:20:59.640 I don't believe that satellites are fake, or space is fake, 1605 01:20:59.720 --> 01:21:02.439 or any thing retarded like that have been. But but 1606 01:21:03.079 --> 01:21:05.600 I do doubt the the images that we've been shown. 1607 01:21:06.760 --> 01:21:07.359 Do you believe we. 1608 01:21:07.319 --> 01:21:10.079 Ever even if it, have we ever been in the moon? 1609 01:21:10.159 --> 01:21:10.319 Right? 1610 01:21:11.239 --> 01:21:12.079 That would be the simple I. 1611 01:21:12.079 --> 01:21:14.640 Have not seen I've not seen anything that that's convincing. 1612 01:21:14.840 --> 01:21:15.039 Uh. 1613 01:21:15.239 --> 01:21:18.720 And I know that may sound out landish, but when. 1614 01:21:18.520 --> 01:21:22.359 You look at the the the possibility of you know, 1615 01:21:22.600 --> 01:21:24.880 what is it two hundred and something thousand miles has 1616 01:21:24.920 --> 01:21:26.279 been a while since I've looked at the moons that 1617 01:21:26.279 --> 01:21:29.399 you two hundred and forty two hundred thousand and then back. 1618 01:21:29.439 --> 01:21:30.760 I mean, have you ever have you ever driven? 1619 01:21:30.880 --> 01:21:30.960 Like? 1620 01:21:34.039 --> 01:21:35.960 No, But I also haven't driven at the speed of 1621 01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:36.560 a rocket. 1622 01:21:37.199 --> 01:21:41.279 Yeah, I wasn't going that fast. Well, if if if 1623 01:21:41.279 --> 01:21:43.399 we do go back to the moon, yeah, planning, I 1624 01:21:43.439 --> 01:21:46.359 know that, But would it be devastating to your your 1625 01:21:46.439 --> 01:21:49.359 pistological framework if, for example, the Chinese went there, and 1626 01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:52.560 would you then say, oh, yeah, we've probably been there 1627 01:21:52.600 --> 01:21:53.600 before or matter. 1628 01:21:53.960 --> 01:21:56.520 I'm just making my claim based on you know, what's 1629 01:21:56.560 --> 01:21:59.199 in Dave's book and and what I when I look 1630 01:21:59.199 --> 01:22:01.439 at those images and the idea of playing golf on 1631 01:22:01.479 --> 01:22:03.720 the moon, I think that's other utterly preposterous. I mean, 1632 01:22:03.760 --> 01:22:06.880 you have this life threatening situation, you have a life 1633 01:22:06.920 --> 01:22:09.439 threatening situation, and the and the I mean that's the 1634 01:22:09.600 --> 01:22:14.399 that's most obvious to me. That's that's uh, that's cold 1635 01:22:14.439 --> 01:22:18.600 war propaganda. And I was in a tin can with 1636 01:22:18.640 --> 01:22:22.640 my girlfriend driving five thousand miles and the idea that 1637 01:22:22.640 --> 01:22:25.560 that that, uh, that you're going to be able to 1638 01:22:25.800 --> 01:22:29.000 make that that ride and where were the buggies by 1639 01:22:29.039 --> 01:22:32.119 the way, or the little moon buggies stashed on the 1640 01:22:32.439 --> 01:22:37.560 Apollo uh device, I would just say, I would. 1641 01:22:37.319 --> 01:22:39.960 Just say, wait, guys, I think we need to I 1642 01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:42.600 think we need to to table this because this this 1643 01:22:42.680 --> 01:22:43.239 sounds like a. 1644 01:22:45.520 --> 01:22:46.239 I've been wanting to. 1645 01:22:52.760 --> 01:22:53.760 Always kills the fun. 1646 01:22:54.640 --> 01:22:56.640 I'm just going to say one thing. I didn't really 1647 01:22:56.680 --> 01:22:59.920 have any commitment on this position. I believe aerospace is real. 1648 01:23:00.039 --> 01:23:04.119 I believe rockets are real. But I find I find 1649 01:23:04.199 --> 01:23:07.119 Dave's book, which you can get free pdf online Wagging 1650 01:23:07.119 --> 01:23:07.840 the Moon Doggie. 1651 01:23:07.840 --> 01:23:09.359 I find it to be pretty convincing. 1652 01:23:09.399 --> 01:23:13.000 So if anybody's read that book and they're still defending it, uh, 1653 01:23:13.159 --> 01:23:15.439 I think the jokes on you. 1654 01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:21.600 So what about the debate that I've wanted to have 1655 01:23:22.720 --> 01:23:24.439 eventually since we started the show. 1656 01:23:25.239 --> 01:23:27.720 I can't never find anybody that's willing to, uh to. 1657 01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:31.319 Come on to defend the position that we didn't go 1658 01:23:31.359 --> 01:23:34.960 to the moon. So I don't know if you if 1659 01:23:34.960 --> 01:23:36.880 you ever want to come back and do that, that 1660 01:23:36.920 --> 01:23:39.600 would be excellent. But guys, if you're out there and you, uh, 1661 01:23:40.039 --> 01:23:41.720 you don't think it went to the moon, getting in 1662 01:23:41.840 --> 01:23:44.760 contact with us because I would love to. The space 1663 01:23:44.800 --> 01:23:47.319 debates are my favorite, Like I get all into those. 1664 01:23:47.600 --> 01:23:51.800 So maybe this is this is not something that that's 1665 01:23:51.840 --> 01:23:52.760 that important to me. 1666 01:23:52.840 --> 01:23:56.680 Really, Yeah, I mean, I mean, yeah, I don't. I 1667 01:23:56.680 --> 01:23:58.039 don't think we should put him on the spot if 1668 01:23:58.039 --> 01:23:58.800 that's really not what. 1669 01:23:58.720 --> 01:24:00.920 He but but yeah, I mean I could want I 1670 01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:05.359 can ponder it, and yeah, maybe down the road, Yeah. 1671 01:24:04.520 --> 01:24:05.159 I'd like to know. 1672 01:24:06.359 --> 01:24:08.119 I'd like to know if you have an opinion on 1673 01:24:08.159 --> 01:24:09.800 the size of the universe and the idea that we 1674 01:24:09.840 --> 01:24:13.760 are seeing stars that exceed millions of years to get 1675 01:24:13.760 --> 01:24:14.720 the light to us. 1676 01:24:16.039 --> 01:24:17.359 It's big, very big. 1677 01:24:18.760 --> 01:24:19.439 I don't. I don't. 1678 01:24:19.680 --> 01:24:23.319 I don't believe any anything now, anything associated with flat Earth. 1679 01:24:23.319 --> 01:24:24.760 If that's what you're asking, Do I think that their 1680 01:24:24.800 --> 01:24:27.039 print picture the pin pricks in a. 1681 01:24:27.039 --> 01:24:28.760 In a asking more young Earth? 1682 01:24:29.000 --> 01:24:32.479 You know he's asking, I'm actually this is creationism? Is 1683 01:24:32.520 --> 01:24:35.119 the universe's science? Ponders it to be. 1684 01:24:37.359 --> 01:24:39.359 Yeah, well I don't. I don't see that as out 1685 01:24:39.399 --> 01:24:41.680 of a chord with UH with creation personally. 1686 01:24:44.359 --> 01:24:46.560 I guess the way we if you believe the universe 1687 01:24:46.640 --> 01:24:51.439 originated at the moment of in Genesis, what would then 1688 01:24:51.479 --> 01:24:54.119 be the explanation for and I don't know exactly the 1689 01:24:54.159 --> 01:24:57.119 age you believe, so I'll take a million years because 1690 01:24:57.159 --> 01:24:59.640 that certainly covers if it's only six thousand or ten thousand, 1691 01:25:00.319 --> 01:25:04.000 anything that's beyond a million years of For the amount 1692 01:25:04.039 --> 01:25:06.279 of time it takes light to travel, what would be 1693 01:25:06.279 --> 01:25:08.079 the explanation for that light having traveled over? 1694 01:25:08.159 --> 01:25:08.880 That problem? 1695 01:25:09.279 --> 01:25:11.159 The problem with that view is that it assumes that 1696 01:25:11.199 --> 01:25:13.439 you have a fixed point in space and that light 1697 01:25:14.079 --> 01:25:19.880 is traveling at a consistent rate over the over. 1698 01:25:20.760 --> 01:25:25.319 Basically, you have an assumption of consistency, and there's not a. 1699 01:25:25.279 --> 01:25:28.840 Way to prove that the ratio or the rate of 1700 01:25:29.159 --> 01:25:33.159 light's travel has been the same throughout throughout all time. 1701 01:25:33.880 --> 01:25:36.600 So I think that's highly speculative as well. I think 1702 01:25:36.600 --> 01:25:40.640 it's one of the weakest arguments for the idea of 1703 01:25:40.880 --> 01:25:43.199 the expansion of the universe. So in other words, everything 1704 01:25:43.239 --> 01:25:45.199 has to be expanding in a certain direction, and it 1705 01:25:45.239 --> 01:25:47.399 assumes that there's a fixed point and there's not. 1706 01:25:47.520 --> 01:25:49.479 There's not a fixed point in space. 1707 01:25:50.520 --> 01:25:52.680 I mean, it's met the burden of predictive power and 1708 01:25:52.760 --> 01:25:56.359 being able to actually say, if the Big Bang happened, 1709 01:25:56.359 --> 01:26:00.359 for occurred, for example, we would find this stuff in 1710 01:26:00.399 --> 01:26:03.319 this place at this distance, as they did when they 1711 01:26:04.319 --> 01:26:06.199 measured the background radiation. 1712 01:26:06.520 --> 01:26:10.319 So yeah, I mean I don't see that as good. 1713 01:26:11.359 --> 01:26:13.840 Well, I mean I've had college astronomy classes, and I 1714 01:26:13.880 --> 01:26:16.800 know about how they measure, you know, background radiation, and 1715 01:26:16.920 --> 01:26:19.600 I think a lot of those methods are actually flawed. 1716 01:26:19.640 --> 01:26:23.600 I don't find them to be very convinced. But that again, 1717 01:26:23.640 --> 01:26:25.479 that's a whole other debate. I'm not opposed. I'm not 1718 01:26:25.520 --> 01:26:26.680 opposed to having that debate. 1719 01:26:26.720 --> 01:26:30.199 But yeah, Joe, I know I get you, and I 1720 01:26:30.199 --> 01:26:32.479 think that probably should be tabled for another time on 1721 01:26:32.520 --> 01:26:34.880 those types of things. It's a kind of a whole 1722 01:26:34.920 --> 01:26:36.520 off topic kind of thing. And I get that. So 1723 01:26:36.720 --> 01:26:38.600 we do have we do have questions from the audience, 1724 01:26:39.399 --> 01:26:40.760 quite a few actions, but try to get as many 1725 01:26:40.760 --> 01:26:42.159 as I can. But don't get you a question. Please 1726 01:26:42.159 --> 01:26:43.479 don't take a personally. But I did want to add 1727 01:26:43.479 --> 01:26:46.640 on your geenographic research. You know, that's that's something that's 1728 01:26:46.680 --> 01:26:48.600 not just among the CI in those things. I mean 1729 01:26:48.600 --> 01:26:51.079 businesses ethnographic research when they want to go overseas and 1730 01:26:51.079 --> 01:26:52.960 they want to build it in other places. So and 1731 01:26:52.960 --> 01:26:54.880 and I can see why Hollywood want as well, because 1732 01:26:54.880 --> 01:26:56.279 they want to know the demographic in the area that 1733 01:26:56.279 --> 01:26:58.600 they can be releasing a movie. So I think that's 1734 01:26:58.640 --> 01:27:00.399 pretty standard in industry that they do some kind of 1735 01:27:00.439 --> 01:27:04.920 ethnographic research. But anyways, so these kind of questions, let's 1736 01:27:04.960 --> 01:27:07.000 see here, I like, I like a couple of these 1737 01:27:07.000 --> 01:27:08.920 more than others. Ione to be reading those first. Sorry, 1738 01:27:09.520 --> 01:27:11.760 but they say, ask Jay why somebody should actually care 1739 01:27:11.760 --> 01:27:14.720 about hidden symbols and how they could reasonably influence people 1740 01:27:14.720 --> 01:27:16.439 that are not aware of their meaning. And that's a 1741 01:27:16.439 --> 01:27:18.199 great question. Actually, If people are not aware what these 1742 01:27:18.239 --> 01:27:20.600 are cult symbols mean, how does it influence them in 1743 01:27:20.640 --> 01:27:21.680 some way? 1744 01:27:22.319 --> 01:27:25.159 Yeah, this gets into you know, different theories about human 1745 01:27:25.239 --> 01:27:28.479 psychology and how the brain works and how our mind 1746 01:27:28.560 --> 01:27:30.359 you know, subconsciously picks things up. 1747 01:27:30.800 --> 01:27:31.760 Things up. Excuse me? 1748 01:27:31.920 --> 01:27:35.000 So, uh, you know, there are certain archetypal forms, and 1749 01:27:35.039 --> 01:27:37.680 if you study something like the trivium or the quadrivium, 1750 01:27:37.680 --> 01:27:39.800 which is the classical forms of education, which I'm a 1751 01:27:39.840 --> 01:27:42.760 big proponent of, you'll notice that there are there are 1752 01:27:42.760 --> 01:27:44.520 are I believe there are archetypal forms. 1753 01:27:44.560 --> 01:27:45.199 So things like. 1754 01:27:46.720 --> 01:27:49.680 Principles in geometry like the hexagram or the square, or 1755 01:27:49.720 --> 01:27:50.800 the platonic solids. 1756 01:27:50.800 --> 01:27:52.880 These are things that are very real and they're they're 1757 01:27:53.039 --> 01:27:53.960 present in nature. 1758 01:27:54.319 --> 01:27:57.119 So I would say that it's actually natural to man 1759 01:27:57.199 --> 01:28:00.079 to be influenced by these things and interpret these things 1760 01:28:00.119 --> 01:28:02.000 even and almost in an. 1761 01:28:01.920 --> 01:28:04.319 Intuitive way without even knowing it. 1762 01:28:04.399 --> 01:28:08.920 So, and I think infant infant research has has confirmed this. 1763 01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:12.199 We've even known this then, this since p P figured 1764 01:28:12.239 --> 01:28:14.800 out that that infants actually pick things up and can 1765 01:28:14.840 --> 01:28:17.880 be conditioned, so to speak, whether you want to call 1766 01:28:17.880 --> 01:28:19.520 it programmed or whether you want to use you know, 1767 01:28:19.600 --> 01:28:22.680 mass laws of terminology or be of skinner terminology of 1768 01:28:22.880 --> 01:28:27.520 of uh of conditioning. Condition doesn't matter because it's essentially 1769 01:28:27.560 --> 01:28:31.000 offering condition. It's essentially you know, training people or it's 1770 01:28:31.000 --> 01:28:34.720 sometimes called entrainment where you where you imprint this on people, 1771 01:28:35.960 --> 01:28:39.560 and and archetypal forms and symbols have that power, I believe. 1772 01:28:39.640 --> 01:28:41.680 But that's a whole other, big, long discussion. 1773 01:28:41.680 --> 01:28:43.079 But do you think they have an intrinsic meaning? Do 1774 01:28:43.159 --> 01:28:45.119 you think these symbols literally have some kind of intrinsic 1775 01:28:45.199 --> 01:28:48.359 meaning that so they're not descriptivism. It's it's you think 1776 01:28:48.399 --> 01:28:51.560 it falls under prescriptivism, then absolutely prescribe. 1777 01:28:52.039 --> 01:28:57.079 Okay, Yeah, I believe meaning and level. Yeah. 1778 01:28:57.119 --> 01:29:01.680 I believe in the reality of immaterial invariant objects and entities. 1779 01:29:02.119 --> 01:29:05.000 I believe. Yeah, I believe in a kind of a psychosphere. 1780 01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:06.720 I mean I had. 1781 01:29:08.800 --> 01:29:09.319 Plants. 1782 01:29:10.760 --> 01:29:14.479 I mean I'm not a flat Yeah. 1783 01:29:15.000 --> 01:29:21.600 Okay, let's see here something. I don't know what this means, 1784 01:29:21.640 --> 01:29:24.319 so pretty please forgive me, but I'll ask it. Ask 1785 01:29:24.439 --> 01:29:26.399 Jay his thoughts on number stations. Do you know what 1786 01:29:26.399 --> 01:29:27.159 they're referring to? 1787 01:29:28.479 --> 01:29:30.159 Yeah? I think I can't remember if I mentioned in 1788 01:29:30.199 --> 01:29:30.760 the book or not. 1789 01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:32.199 But I have a couple of essays I wrote in 1790 01:29:32.199 --> 01:29:34.159 a number stations, and these come out of the Cold War. 1791 01:29:34.199 --> 01:29:37.159 They were set up, oftentimes by the n Essay and 1792 01:29:37.199 --> 01:29:41.880 they were basically stations to relay information to agents out 1793 01:29:41.880 --> 01:29:44.439 in the field. So you would have like a number 1794 01:29:44.479 --> 01:29:47.520 station set up in say Norway or somewhere in the 1795 01:29:47.720 --> 01:29:49.039 A lot of these still exist, by the way, and 1796 01:29:49.039 --> 01:29:51.560 they still put out their signals and they would just 1797 01:29:51.600 --> 01:29:53.239 put out something like beeps. 1798 01:29:52.960 --> 01:29:55.159 Or a song just play on repeat. 1799 01:29:56.079 --> 01:29:58.600 And the idea was that during the Cold War, the 1800 01:29:58.680 --> 01:30:01.199 other side wouldn't know what your code was, and if 1801 01:30:01.199 --> 01:30:04.119 you wanted to activate a cell in a certain area, 1802 01:30:04.640 --> 01:30:08.800 then you would put the message into the relay, into 1803 01:30:08.840 --> 01:30:12.560 the whatever's being sent out. And so like if you 1804 01:30:12.560 --> 01:30:15.399 watch the Americans that that show on Fax, which I 1805 01:30:15.439 --> 01:30:18.079 thought was pretty good. I mean, it's obviously Hollywood, but 1806 01:30:18.119 --> 01:30:21.039 it's based on a lot of real world Soviet Cold 1807 01:30:21.039 --> 01:30:24.880 Wars type stuff. And there's several scenes in the series 1808 01:30:24.880 --> 01:30:27.399 where he goes and he like turns the radio and 1809 01:30:27.439 --> 01:30:29.800 he listens to the you know, some little jingle and 1810 01:30:29.840 --> 01:30:31.399 he writes down numbers, and. 1811 01:30:31.279 --> 01:30:34.399 That's how he knows what Moscow is telling him to do. 1812 01:30:34.479 --> 01:30:37.319 So that's very real and that still exists in number stations, 1813 01:30:37.359 --> 01:30:40.800 by the way, play into how we got cell phones 1814 01:30:40.840 --> 01:30:43.319 and internet and wireless technology because all of that comes 1815 01:30:43.319 --> 01:30:46.680 out of Cold War cryptography. 1816 01:30:46.880 --> 01:30:47.960 It's a badass show too. 1817 01:30:49.159 --> 01:30:53.119 Yeah, it makes sense, and maybe maybe Jimmy can kind 1818 01:30:53.119 --> 01:30:54.560 of wig in this one as well. If this is 1819 01:30:54.600 --> 01:30:56.560 the case, if you answered the student of the affirmative, 1820 01:30:56.920 --> 01:30:59.199 but does Jay believe that CIA has an agenda to 1821 01:30:59.239 --> 01:31:02.319 sway individuals and Satanism? In other words, does JA believe 1822 01:31:02.359 --> 01:31:04.199 that the agenda is to move people away from God 1823 01:31:04.239 --> 01:31:05.479 in some way? Do you think there's some kind of 1824 01:31:05.520 --> 01:31:09.000 underlying thing to move away from a from a deity belief, 1825 01:31:09.319 --> 01:31:14.680 to promote some kind of either atheism or satan Satanism. 1826 01:31:14.800 --> 01:31:17.560 I think that Satanic cults definitely play a role in 1827 01:31:17.600 --> 01:31:21.359 the CI's overall strategies and plans. I don't know that 1828 01:31:21.399 --> 01:31:25.079 it's necessarily uh to get everybody into Satanism. I do 1829 01:31:25.159 --> 01:31:28.560 think they use occult groups and occult ideologies UH to 1830 01:31:28.640 --> 01:31:32.359 be to be popularized. And I would say, yeah, overall, 1831 01:31:32.479 --> 01:31:36.479 that does play a role in moving mass populations, but 1832 01:31:36.520 --> 01:31:38.119 it's certainly not the only. 1833 01:31:39.560 --> 01:31:40.840 Ideology that they peddle. 1834 01:31:43.239 --> 01:31:46.720 Well in that scenario with Satanism, in that scenario with 1835 01:31:46.840 --> 01:31:51.600 Satanism include anything that is in direct opposition to Orthodoxy, 1836 01:31:51.680 --> 01:31:54.119 or would other Christian in other words, would would they 1837 01:31:54.119 --> 01:31:57.479 be doing so via other Christian symbols, just not the 1838 01:31:57.560 --> 01:31:58.680 right Christian symbols. 1839 01:31:58.720 --> 01:31:59.880 Would that? 1840 01:32:00.079 --> 01:32:02.760 I just meant it in a very very precise sense. 1841 01:32:02.800 --> 01:32:05.600 I wasn't speaking it in the sense of yeah, okay, 1842 01:32:06.479 --> 01:32:10.079 spiritually speaking, Yeah, we believe that that anything that's not 1843 01:32:10.279 --> 01:32:13.319 Orthodox ultimately can be used in that way. That doesn't 1844 01:32:13.319 --> 01:32:16.159 mean that everybody who's not Orthodox is evil or Satanic. 1845 01:32:16.199 --> 01:32:18.800 It just means that those things can fit into that agenda. 1846 01:32:18.840 --> 01:32:22.239 I mean, for example, not every Marxist is a Satanist, 1847 01:32:22.319 --> 01:32:26.560 but I would say it root Marxism is in my view, Satanic, 1848 01:32:26.640 --> 01:32:29.399 so to speak. And that's because Marx. If you read 1849 01:32:30.479 --> 01:32:33.960 Richard Vernbrand's book, he demonstrates that Marx was influenced by 1850 01:32:34.239 --> 01:32:35.680 Satanism in his early days. 1851 01:32:37.760 --> 01:32:41.159 Okay, I think we got two two. 1852 01:32:40.960 --> 01:32:46.279 More tew more questions. Okay, ask him what he thinks 1853 01:32:46.319 --> 01:32:48.359 of Mark Hamill and Kathy O'Brien, and I'm not sure 1854 01:32:48.399 --> 01:32:51.880 the relevancy, but we'll ask. 1855 01:32:51.960 --> 01:32:55.720 I think I think Luke Skywalker is al Luke is 1856 01:32:55.720 --> 01:32:57.359 an inceel in the new. 1857 01:33:00.199 --> 01:33:05.600 No. Oh no, he's on an island and he's milking. 1858 01:33:05.720 --> 01:33:07.720 He's milking sister. 1859 01:33:08.159 --> 01:33:10.680 So yeah, I mean he probably I was mostly traumatized. 1860 01:33:10.720 --> 01:33:11.159 After that. 1861 01:33:12.079 --> 01:33:14.600 I wouldn't be done with it. Have you seen my sister. 1862 01:33:16.000 --> 01:33:17.920 Kathy O'Brien. I mean, I don't know. 1863 01:33:17.960 --> 01:33:20.199 A lot of her claims are hard to substantiate, so 1864 01:33:20.239 --> 01:33:22.920 I've never really relied on I'm not saying she's a 1865 01:33:22.920 --> 01:33:26.920 bad person. My girlfriend knows Kathy O'Brien. She's friendly with her, 1866 01:33:26.960 --> 01:33:29.840 she thinks she's sweet. But I don't have any pro 1867 01:33:30.000 --> 01:33:32.520 or con argument about Kathrie Oro. I've never really paid 1868 01:33:32.600 --> 01:33:33.119 any attention. 1869 01:33:35.439 --> 01:33:42.319 Okay, and uh, well ahead, Steve, last one, your your 1870 01:33:42.399 --> 01:33:43.119 mud to state. 1871 01:33:45.880 --> 01:33:49.760 My bad. The Alumnimonnadi didn't want me to get this out. 1872 01:33:50.720 --> 01:33:52.760 He said, how does Jay make the distinction between normal 1873 01:33:52.840 --> 01:33:56.039 societal structures such as corporate culture and cult conspiracy? And 1874 01:33:56.039 --> 01:33:58.560 by the way, if you could maybe suss out cult 1875 01:33:58.560 --> 01:34:00.479 a little bit more, because I still personally and I 1876 01:34:00.560 --> 01:34:02.039 know I am confused, and I know the live chat 1877 01:34:02.079 --> 01:34:05.119 is whether you're taking cult from a theological type of perspective, 1878 01:34:05.119 --> 01:34:08.560 where you're talking about a there's different categorizations of what 1879 01:34:08.600 --> 01:34:12.159 cans to be cultish as what could be a cult group. 1880 01:34:12.199 --> 01:34:15.479 And then there's also more of the orthodoxy approach to cultism. 1881 01:34:15.560 --> 01:34:17.039 So if you can sus that out little bit more. 1882 01:34:17.039 --> 01:34:19.199 But they want to know if you make a distinction 1883 01:34:19.239 --> 01:34:22.319 between normal societal structures just as a corporate entities or 1884 01:34:22.359 --> 01:34:28.720 corporate cultures as opposed to the cult conspiracy. That makes sense. 1885 01:34:28.880 --> 01:34:32.600 Yeah, again, I don't try to say that like everybody 1886 01:34:32.680 --> 01:34:36.199 who like David Rockefeller, if you read his memoirs, he 1887 01:34:36.279 --> 01:34:40.359 will talk about conspiracies. For example, he will admit I've 1888 01:34:40.399 --> 01:34:43.159 got his memoirs here somewhere. 1889 01:34:43.319 --> 01:34:43.960 Yeah, right here. 1890 01:34:44.359 --> 01:34:46.680 So David Rockefeller and his and his memoirs, and I 1891 01:34:46.680 --> 01:34:50.880 think he's a very powerful, famous individual who's had a 1892 01:34:50.920 --> 01:34:52.640 lot of influence on American culture. 1893 01:34:53.479 --> 01:34:59.199 And then if you look at chapter I've got it 1894 01:34:59.239 --> 01:35:00.039 marked here. 1895 01:35:02.399 --> 01:35:06.720 Chapter twenty seven called the Proud Internationalist, where he basically 1896 01:35:06.720 --> 01:35:11.279 says that the people who accuse him of conspiracy are correct, 1897 01:35:11.319 --> 01:35:14.159 and he says that I am proud to be a 1898 01:35:14.199 --> 01:35:17.760 globalist and not a populist. So he's quite he's quite 1899 01:35:17.880 --> 01:35:21.000 clear about the goals. Chapter twenty seven Dave Roulers and 1900 01:35:21.000 --> 01:35:27.640 Memoirs of the Internationalist and their idea to create a 1901 01:35:27.680 --> 01:35:31.319 global government and so forth. So I would say that 1902 01:35:31.399 --> 01:35:34.720 David Rockefeller is very open I don't have any evidence 1903 01:35:34.800 --> 01:35:37.800 that David Rockefeller isn't accultist. I've never seen anything that 1904 01:35:37.920 --> 01:35:42.159 proves he's a Luciferian or a Satanist or anything like that. 1905 01:35:42.720 --> 01:35:45.680 He seems to be a pragmatic atheist who basically just 1906 01:35:45.720 --> 01:35:48.600 wants to create world government and kill most of humanity. 1907 01:35:48.880 --> 01:35:52.039 That's what he seems to say openly. So I wouldn't 1908 01:35:52.079 --> 01:35:54.560 say he's an occultist. I wouldn't say, but I would 1909 01:35:54.560 --> 01:35:57.960 say that he is part of an overall plan and strategy. 1910 01:35:58.000 --> 01:35:59.800 And so what I do at my channel, for example, 1911 01:36:00.000 --> 01:36:03.520 as I do lectures based on these books, I have 1912 01:36:03.600 --> 01:36:06.000 about fifteen or twenty that I've gone through so far, 1913 01:36:06.039 --> 01:36:13.319 which are major globalist thinkers, geopoliticians, writers, Brazinski, those level guys, 1914 01:36:14.800 --> 01:36:17.399 and I just talk about what's in their books. We 1915 01:36:17.479 --> 01:36:21.239 do like a weekly book reading thing. So what I'm 1916 01:36:21.239 --> 01:36:23.840 getting at is that they don't necessarily have to be 1917 01:36:23.880 --> 01:36:27.279 a cultist to have the same plans and ideas. So 1918 01:36:27.840 --> 01:36:31.479 when I say occult sometimes I'm referring to just secret knowledge. 1919 01:36:31.520 --> 01:36:34.359 That's what the word means, and so intelligence agencies. Because 1920 01:36:34.359 --> 01:36:37.840 they traffic in secrets, they could be called occult organizations. 1921 01:36:38.119 --> 01:36:41.199 Sometimes I'm referring, though, to secret societies like Skull and 1922 01:36:41.279 --> 01:36:47.319 Bones or the Oto, or to Freemasonry, which are consciously 1923 01:36:47.439 --> 01:36:50.800 secret societies that traffic in secret information and also have 1924 01:36:50.880 --> 01:36:55.000 hermitic and occultic beliefs, the Rosicrucians and so forth. So 1925 01:36:55.600 --> 01:36:58.319 I'm very precise, I would say in the ways that 1926 01:36:58.359 --> 01:37:02.199 I make distinctions. I'm well aware of that Anton LaVey's 1927 01:37:02.399 --> 01:37:04.960 Satanism is more of a humanism and it's atheism. 1928 01:37:04.960 --> 01:37:05.800 I'm well aware of that. 1929 01:37:05.880 --> 01:37:08.920 I'm well aware of Michael Lokino's Temple of Set being 1930 01:37:09.000 --> 01:37:11.840 more serious about it Satanism. So I think I'm pretty 1931 01:37:11.840 --> 01:37:14.560 fair and clear in the distinctions that I've made. 1932 01:37:15.600 --> 01:37:19.239 So you don't think worship Satan or Jimmy to you, well, 1933 01:37:19.239 --> 01:37:20.960 the three of us, we're not Satan worshippers to you. 1934 01:37:20.960 --> 01:37:25.359 Right, I don't know you guys, so I don't I mean, 1935 01:37:25.359 --> 01:37:27.000 I assume you do. I don't know. 1936 01:37:27.439 --> 01:37:29.520 Answer, I guess, I mean. 1937 01:37:30.800 --> 01:37:34.399 And then the last, the one last question, what conspiracy 1938 01:37:34.439 --> 01:37:36.359 theory do you absolutely disagree with? 1939 01:37:37.920 --> 01:37:39.960 I hate the flat earth big time. 1940 01:37:43.920 --> 01:37:46.880 Flat Earth is silly. You hear that flat earth is 1941 01:37:49.560 --> 01:37:52.000 a simple expert guy. He thinks flat earth is born. 1942 01:37:53.119 --> 01:37:56.119 I had a like, actually a giant band of them 1943 01:37:56.159 --> 01:37:58.520 attack my channel one day and just like thumbed down 1944 01:37:58.880 --> 01:38:00.640 and it was just all a boy kissed me off. 1945 01:38:05.039 --> 01:38:07.239 I had a question or something along the same light. 1946 01:38:07.279 --> 01:38:10.119 That's relevant because it's relevant to uh C I A 1947 01:38:10.560 --> 01:38:13.000 driven conspiracies. I'd love to know what his if he 1948 01:38:13.039 --> 01:38:16.079 has a truth riism position, the idea about September eleventh 1949 01:38:16.119 --> 01:38:17.640 being an inside job. 1950 01:38:18.479 --> 01:38:19.560 Oh, absolutely, yeah. 1951 01:38:19.600 --> 01:38:24.159 I think that's unquestionable, unquestionable that it was an inside job. 1952 01:38:24.640 --> 01:38:25.239 Is that what you're saying? 1953 01:38:25.520 --> 01:38:30.119 Okay, sorry, I've I've done word games before where someone 1954 01:38:30.119 --> 01:38:31.880 asked do you have a position, and I say, yes, 1955 01:38:31.920 --> 01:38:33.039 I do, and that's where I left it. 1956 01:38:33.039 --> 01:38:34.399 So I just made sure you weren't doing the same 1957 01:38:34.399 --> 01:38:35.600 thing I've done before as a joke. 1958 01:38:36.720 --> 01:38:39.640 No, I haven't. I haven't covered it. I haven't covered 1959 01:38:39.680 --> 01:38:41.760 in a while just because it hasn't come up. But no, 1960 01:38:41.840 --> 01:38:45.520 I think that was pretty clearly an inside job collusion 1961 01:38:45.640 --> 01:38:51.479 between Western intelligence, the PNAT group, Neo conservatives, probably Israeli intelligence, 1962 01:38:51.520 --> 01:38:52.239 and groups like that. 1963 01:38:52.399 --> 01:38:53.920 So that's who really did it. I don't think it's 1964 01:38:53.920 --> 01:38:55.399 been lot and been laden was a long time. 1965 01:38:55.479 --> 01:39:00.399 CIA said, So how attached would it be this pooh, 1966 01:39:00.640 --> 01:39:01.359 are we out of time? 1967 01:39:02.640 --> 01:39:03.199 Yeah? 1968 01:39:03.399 --> 01:39:06.239 How attached to that? No? 1969 01:39:06.239 --> 01:39:06.800 No, no, not you. 1970 01:39:06.920 --> 01:39:09.000 I want to know how attached this group, these groups 1971 01:39:09.000 --> 01:39:13.920 would be to these same groups that exist behind the 1972 01:39:13.960 --> 01:39:15.079 symbology in movies. 1973 01:39:16.560 --> 01:39:17.000 Simpolis. 1974 01:39:17.359 --> 01:39:20.479 Well, I think that when I when I do my talks, 1975 01:39:20.520 --> 01:39:25.560 for example, on global power structures geopolitics, I'm going to 1976 01:39:25.640 --> 01:39:28.399 cover pretty standard works that that. 1977 01:39:29.920 --> 01:39:31.079 Shouldn't really be. 1978 01:39:31.359 --> 01:39:34.760 Too debatable, Like you know, we're going to do the 1979 01:39:34.760 --> 01:39:37.000 big ne Brazienski's Grand Chess Board. You know, he was 1980 01:39:37.119 --> 01:39:41.079 obviously the guy who created al Qaeda under Jimmy Carter, 1981 01:39:41.199 --> 01:39:42.520 that's very easy to verify. 1982 01:39:43.399 --> 01:39:46.199 I cover uh, his other book. 1983 01:39:46.079 --> 01:39:48.680 Between Two Ages, which is written in the seventies and 1984 01:39:48.720 --> 01:39:51.439 talks about creating basically a giant technocracy. 1985 01:39:52.560 --> 01:39:56.199 But the main sort of central work that I focus. 1986 01:39:55.920 --> 01:39:59.600 On that answers your very question about power blocks is 1987 01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:02.560 Carol Quigley's Tragy and Hope. So I have eight lectures 1988 01:40:02.960 --> 01:40:05.399 on the totality of all thirteen hundred pages, and this 1989 01:40:05.439 --> 01:40:07.680 is one of the most famous geopolitical treatises of the 1990 01:40:07.680 --> 01:40:11.680 twentieth century, and he describes, you know, large power blocks, 1991 01:40:11.720 --> 01:40:15.680 and for him, we live in the atlantisist power blocks. 1992 01:40:15.760 --> 01:40:18.600 That would be the US, the UK, and Israel, and 1993 01:40:18.680 --> 01:40:21.640 so they pretty much control the Western world in a 1994 01:40:21.720 --> 01:40:24.439 large part of the rest of the globe. So that's 1995 01:40:24.479 --> 01:40:27.840 how I see geopolitics shaking out, and that's who. 1996 01:40:27.880 --> 01:40:29.520 In a large part controls Hollywood. 1997 01:40:31.079 --> 01:40:35.239 And we're gonna have to because the same people that 1998 01:40:35.319 --> 01:40:37.600 created the CIA is the CIA is actually a creation 1999 01:40:37.680 --> 01:40:40.760 of the Rockefellers and British intelligence. I mean, they're not 2000 01:40:40.800 --> 01:40:43.560 going the Hollywood's not going to do something different than 2001 01:40:43.920 --> 01:40:46.560 what this overall power structure wants, which is why, for example, 2002 01:40:46.560 --> 01:40:51.560 they demonize Russia. Hollywood across the board demonizes Russia, Russia, collusion, Trump, 2003 01:40:51.560 --> 01:40:52.199 all that stuff. 2004 01:40:52.520 --> 01:40:55.199 That's all pretty much top down. 2005 01:40:56.399 --> 01:40:57.880 We're gonna have to be wrapping it up. So how 2006 01:40:57.880 --> 01:40:59.079 about we kind of let you guys. 2007 01:40:59.199 --> 01:41:00.800 We're going to have to come back to UH to 2008 01:41:00.880 --> 01:41:05.600 finish that. Well yeah, hell yeah, that. 2009 01:41:05.039 --> 01:41:09.520 Was definitely be a conversation. I'd be way more excited by. 2010 01:41:11.199 --> 01:41:13.520 At two hours. But I would love to hear the 2011 01:41:13.520 --> 01:41:15.640 rest of where you're well. 2012 01:41:15.840 --> 01:41:20.279 Can I ask m yeah, oh yeah, yeah, if you 2013 01:41:20.319 --> 01:41:22.239 want to ask questions, we have a little bit of 2014 01:41:22.359 --> 01:41:24.960 time for that, that's fine, go ahead, please. 2015 01:41:25.039 --> 01:41:26.359 Well, no, I was just gonna say, I was just 2016 01:41:26.359 --> 01:41:29.279 gonna say, like, have you guys looked at Brazenski or 2017 01:41:29.399 --> 01:41:31.760 like Jock out to Lee? Like what I do is 2018 01:41:31.760 --> 01:41:34.600 basically just cover all these guys books and and I mean. 2019 01:41:34.479 --> 01:41:39.840 They're they're No, Honestly, I didn't actually read the book. 2020 01:41:39.840 --> 01:41:41.199 I just like to post it notes in there. 2021 01:41:42.439 --> 01:41:47.600 I don't actually, you know, some research, but I don't 2022 01:41:47.600 --> 01:41:48.960 look at any of them. 2023 01:41:49.600 --> 01:41:52.720 I haven't, But I find the I find the uh 2024 01:41:53.640 --> 01:41:58.920 arguments that like stuff like when I say that I'm 2025 01:41:58.960 --> 01:42:03.319 not conspiracy seriraucly minded, I still like to hear what 2026 01:42:03.439 --> 01:42:07.359 everybody's society is. Like, I'm fascinated by the arguments that 2027 01:42:07.399 --> 01:42:08.159 people put forth. 2028 01:42:09.560 --> 01:42:11.039 Yeah, like the last book that them two. 2029 01:42:12.600 --> 01:42:14.239 Yeah, that's actually going to be in my new book 2030 01:42:14.279 --> 01:42:16.520 because there are movies that have geoengineering. 2031 01:42:16.600 --> 01:42:18.560 So I'm actually going to include that in the second book. 2032 01:42:19.359 --> 01:42:21.680 Right now, I would love to have a chemictry episode. 2033 01:42:22.159 --> 01:42:24.399 I'll come on a debate debate that uh. 2034 01:42:24.520 --> 01:42:27.359 Right now, I'm covering uh Annie Jacobson's pretty famous book 2035 01:42:27.359 --> 01:42:30.359 on the history of DARPA, which is Pentagon's Brain. Uh, 2036 01:42:30.399 --> 01:42:33.319 and there's actually a chapter that gets into geoengineering. Now, 2037 01:42:33.359 --> 01:42:36.159 she's a mainline journalist, just chronicling the history of DARPA. 2038 01:42:36.239 --> 01:42:39.520 She's not a conspiracy theorist. So this was actually Pulitzer nominated. 2039 01:42:39.560 --> 01:42:43.039 So I always try to go from the mainline sources 2040 01:42:43.079 --> 01:42:45.000 to make my case. That's kind of my whole my 2041 01:42:45.039 --> 01:42:45.560 whole bag. 2042 01:42:46.239 --> 01:42:48.319 You you do your research, and that I can. I 2043 01:42:48.359 --> 01:42:51.239 thought I can say that you don't don't do your research, 2044 01:42:51.239 --> 01:42:51.800 that's for sure. 2045 01:42:53.800 --> 01:42:57.079 But uh, I find the the the While I don't 2046 01:42:57.079 --> 01:42:59.439 agree with most conspiracy theories, I still like to hear 2047 01:43:00.439 --> 01:43:02.279 the the arguments from both sides. 2048 01:43:02.279 --> 01:43:03.520 I think it's fascinating to have. 2049 01:43:04.159 --> 01:43:06.720 And you know, I don't see why people make such 2050 01:43:06.720 --> 01:43:10.840 a big deal about having things like the Kim Trail debates. 2051 01:43:10.840 --> 01:43:13.319 Are the anti factor, you know, any of those kinds 2052 01:43:13.319 --> 01:43:13.640 of things. 2053 01:43:13.680 --> 01:43:16.680 I think it's it's important to have those kinds of 2054 01:43:16.920 --> 01:43:19.000 discussions out in the open. 2055 01:43:19.199 --> 01:43:23.439 Well, I'll tell you what challenge. Here's the challenge real quick, 2056 01:43:23.920 --> 01:43:26.760 then I'll shut up. If you go to my YouTube page, 2057 01:43:26.760 --> 01:43:31.560 there's a list of titled a playlist titled Globalist book series. 2058 01:43:31.640 --> 01:43:35.680 And then that's just my arguments from the different geopolitical 2059 01:43:35.680 --> 01:43:39.520 texts about you know, so called conspiracies that I think are. 2060 01:43:39.399 --> 01:43:43.800 Real awesome, and I'll look at I'll tell you what, 2061 01:43:43.840 --> 01:43:45.800 I'll look into one of yours. 2062 01:43:46.279 --> 01:43:49.640 If you at some point check out the Spinks, just. 2063 01:43:49.720 --> 01:43:54.399 Go and and read a little bit about the the 2064 01:43:54.439 --> 01:43:57.640 Sphinks and and tell me what you think I'm I have. 2065 01:43:57.760 --> 01:43:58.920 I have people that are. 2066 01:44:00.600 --> 01:44:04.760 Point ancient point collector that we have come on here. 2067 01:44:04.800 --> 01:44:07.960 All of them think that I'm just that shit crazy 2068 01:44:08.319 --> 01:44:11.479 for bringing up But I think. 2069 01:44:11.359 --> 01:44:13.119 There's guys think got bat shit crazy if you think 2070 01:44:13.119 --> 01:44:17.680 of colors don't exist though, so welcome to my work. 2071 01:44:17.840 --> 01:44:19.039 I don't think you're crazy for that. 2072 01:44:19.960 --> 01:44:22.079 Yeah, I know, I agree upon this. 2073 01:44:22.960 --> 01:44:26.119 I want to say I appreciate, uh, I appreciate the challenge, 2074 01:44:26.159 --> 01:44:28.960 mister atheist. I appreciate you conducting it in a very 2075 01:44:28.960 --> 01:44:31.119 civil way that I thought it was a very fruitful conversation. 2076 01:44:32.079 --> 01:44:33.079 I liked the critique. 2077 01:44:33.079 --> 01:44:36.119 I thought you do have a point there about uh, 2078 01:44:36.159 --> 01:44:38.359 you know, maybe and then maybe in the second book, 2079 01:44:38.359 --> 01:44:40.079 what I'll try to do is frame it in a 2080 01:44:40.199 --> 01:44:43.520 more uh like, let me prove. 2081 01:44:43.279 --> 01:44:46.239 My case to you from the outset rather than assuming. 2082 01:44:46.680 --> 01:44:47.319 So I'll take that. 2083 01:44:47.600 --> 01:44:49.600 I think that would be I think that would be important. 2084 01:44:49.600 --> 01:44:52.760 And I genuinely don't mean this in any way disparaging, 2085 01:44:53.000 --> 01:44:56.800 but I do think, especially toward the end of the conversation, uh, 2086 01:44:56.880 --> 01:44:59.520 where we started talking about other stuff, now, I would 2087 01:44:59.520 --> 01:45:02.399 almost need that just to get past that. It seems 2088 01:45:03.239 --> 01:45:05.279 the case that you have at the very least a 2089 01:45:05.359 --> 01:45:09.239 conspiratorial brain. Not say you embrace every conspiracy, but I 2090 01:45:09.279 --> 01:45:11.520 have new concerns because of some of the conspiracies you 2091 01:45:11.560 --> 01:45:13.960 do embrace. So I would want that second, second level 2092 01:45:13.960 --> 01:45:16.359 of connection to tell you the truth. If you aren't 2093 01:45:16.399 --> 01:45:18.640 willing to come to your current book and make the 2094 01:45:18.680 --> 01:45:22.800 presuppositions that the book calls for, it's not the easiest 2095 01:45:22.840 --> 01:45:25.159 read for you because you're going to keep hitting those moments. 2096 01:45:26.920 --> 01:45:29.000 And I'm just going to call this my conclusion and 2097 01:45:29.039 --> 01:45:31.039 let you respond to anything you want for yours that way, 2098 01:45:31.399 --> 01:45:31.760 because I. 2099 01:45:34.880 --> 01:45:36.000 Can I make one more point on it. 2100 01:45:37.720 --> 01:45:40.359 So yeah, Well, so the last part of the conclusion 2101 01:45:40.439 --> 01:45:42.520 was the other thing, the other issue I have with 2102 01:45:42.560 --> 01:45:45.560 the book that's now been exacerbated by our discussion or 2103 01:45:45.560 --> 01:45:47.960 debate or whatever we want to call this. Here was 2104 01:45:48.840 --> 01:45:51.039 now a pattern that seems to be emerging of your 2105 01:45:51.119 --> 01:45:54.439 embracing of sciences that seem to make your point or 2106 01:45:54.560 --> 01:46:00.520 be acceptable within your preps Orthodoxy worldview, things about psychcology, 2107 01:46:00.680 --> 01:46:05.079 but very dismissive of the sciences and quick to conclude 2108 01:46:05.119 --> 01:46:08.119 they themselves or cults and conspiracies if they interfere with 2109 01:46:08.199 --> 01:46:09.920 your orthodoxy worldview. 2110 01:46:10.840 --> 01:46:13.319 I mean, in fact, again, the positions that I believe 2111 01:46:13.439 --> 01:46:15.640 now or not positions I was raised with, or not 2112 01:46:15.720 --> 01:46:19.119 ones that I elected long ago to defend to the death. 2113 01:46:19.159 --> 01:46:22.199 I've changed my mind multiple times in my research and 2114 01:46:22.239 --> 01:46:26.039 academic career, so I just have a lot of different interests, 2115 01:46:26.079 --> 01:46:29.079 and I never came to any of these topics with 2116 01:46:30.159 --> 01:46:34.239 the assumption of conspiracy per se. I think that when 2117 01:46:34.319 --> 01:46:37.239 you look at anything like geopolitics, which is something that 2118 01:46:37.279 --> 01:46:40.039 I got into in the latter half of my academic career, 2119 01:46:40.239 --> 01:46:43.159 like later twenties and into grad school, is that you're 2120 01:46:43.159 --> 01:46:45.199 forced to This is something that if you go to 2121 01:46:45.199 --> 01:46:46.960 grad school you'll experience. 2122 01:46:47.000 --> 01:46:48.479 You're forced to defend your positions. 2123 01:46:49.039 --> 01:46:53.000 You can't just have a thing where you go to 2124 01:46:53.039 --> 01:46:55.359 the professors when you have to defend your case, and 2125 01:46:55.399 --> 01:46:58.800 you just say, well, here's what I want my argument 2126 01:46:58.840 --> 01:47:00.079 to be, and I'm only going to list the. 2127 01:47:00.159 --> 01:47:02.439 Sources that I want. Now, the first thing that you 2128 01:47:02.479 --> 01:47:06.520 do is you debate the other side. 2129 01:47:06.560 --> 01:47:07.920 And so the only way that I would have ever 2130 01:47:08.000 --> 01:47:11.159 changed my mind, I'm just given an existential experience kind 2131 01:47:11.199 --> 01:47:12.680 of account here. 2132 01:47:12.720 --> 01:47:14.039 I'm not saying this proves anything. 2133 01:47:14.079 --> 01:47:17.439 I'm just saying that that I think I've been fairly 2134 01:47:17.479 --> 01:47:20.079 open minded. I've listened to, you know, tons of debates 2135 01:47:20.119 --> 01:47:23.520 from various perspectives. I don't think science is bad, nor 2136 01:47:23.520 --> 01:47:26.880 do I I disregard science effects. One of the things 2137 01:47:26.880 --> 01:47:29.119 that I focused on in grad school was the science 2138 01:47:29.159 --> 01:47:32.800 of cognition and the philosophy of science. So that's actually 2139 01:47:32.840 --> 01:47:35.359 something that's very crucial to a lot of the essays 2140 01:47:35.359 --> 01:47:38.479 I've written over the years. I just have different views 2141 01:47:38.520 --> 01:47:42.439 about how epistemology works, how metaphysics works, and those aren't 2142 01:47:42.479 --> 01:47:46.199 positions that I came to defend a conspiracy view or 2143 01:47:46.239 --> 01:47:51.760 to defend necessarily a theological view. Because I've interacted with 2144 01:47:52.439 --> 01:47:57.960 everything from Satanism to atheism, to Aristelianism to Platonism to Buddhism. 2145 01:47:58.239 --> 01:48:00.640 Different philosophy is over over the years. 2146 01:48:00.680 --> 01:48:03.119 So I would say I'm pretty pretty open minded to 2147 01:48:03.199 --> 01:48:06.560 being corrected or critiqued. Otherwise I wouldn't have come to 2148 01:48:06.600 --> 01:48:09.840 a position that's a so called conspiracy. But I think 2149 01:48:09.880 --> 01:48:13.680 when you look at big time globalist players and you 2150 01:48:13.720 --> 01:48:17.119 read their books, and I do a talk on that 2151 01:48:17.159 --> 01:48:20.960 guy's book and what he says, I mean, that's just research, 2152 01:48:21.079 --> 01:48:22.560 that's just citing the sources. 2153 01:48:22.600 --> 01:48:25.279 I don't see how that's even How can you even. 2154 01:48:25.199 --> 01:48:27.760 Say it's a conspiracy theory if you're if you're looking 2155 01:48:27.800 --> 01:48:30.079 at what Brazenski himself says, and if you don't know 2156 01:48:30.119 --> 01:48:31.640 Brezenski and how important he's been. 2157 01:48:32.399 --> 01:48:33.439 You know, I'm not dissing you. 2158 01:48:33.479 --> 01:48:36.159 I'm saying theoretically, if a person doesn't know his important role, 2159 01:48:36.760 --> 01:48:38.359 then that's really their own ignorance. 2160 01:48:38.359 --> 01:48:39.039 It's not my fault. 2161 01:48:40.359 --> 01:48:43.000 I won't because I said I would, But I did 2162 01:48:43.000 --> 01:48:44.600 want to say I'd love to come back. 2163 01:48:44.479 --> 01:48:46.600 And do Evolution with you sometime if you're down for it. 2164 01:48:47.680 --> 01:48:49.760 Yeah, we could probably fit that down eventually if I 2165 01:48:49.760 --> 01:48:52.279 can get free, Yeah for sure. 2166 01:48:53.119 --> 01:48:55.600 And we definitely want to have you back with Kim Trosty. 2167 01:48:55.720 --> 01:48:58.479 But I'm gonna let you guys kind of take us 2168 01:48:58.479 --> 01:49:02.520 out with uh, something about your your channel, what you've 2169 01:49:02.560 --> 01:49:05.119 got coming up. And also I wanted to ask Jay 2170 01:49:05.119 --> 01:49:06.399 when does your new book come out? 2171 01:49:08.399 --> 01:49:10.479 Right now, I'm in the process of finishing up the 2172 01:49:10.479 --> 01:49:14.840 sidebars and the citations, so I would say, and that 2173 01:49:15.039 --> 01:49:18.800 the best bet would probably be two three months. 2174 01:49:20.159 --> 01:49:20.399 Cool. 2175 01:49:24.399 --> 01:49:25.119 Yeah. 2176 01:49:25.720 --> 01:49:27.119 The only thing I want to add is I think 2177 01:49:27.319 --> 01:49:29.439 doing made a good critique on that that I think 2178 01:49:29.439 --> 01:49:31.800 that Jays actually is incorporating, which I think is a 2179 01:49:31.800 --> 01:49:34.159 brilliant thing, is that you know, your first book had 2180 01:49:34.199 --> 01:49:36.159 this one specific approach with I, by the way, don't 2181 01:49:36.159 --> 01:49:37.960 see a problem with I don't have an issue how 2182 01:49:37.960 --> 01:49:40.600 you approached it at all. But I also think that 2183 01:49:40.680 --> 01:49:42.159 the second book, if you're going to do it the 2184 01:49:42.199 --> 01:49:45.199 way Jimmy suggested that says, here's what my argument will be. 2185 01:49:45.319 --> 01:49:46.960 This is what I want to prove to you. Let 2186 01:49:46.960 --> 01:49:48.720 me see if I can make my argument. That's fine 2187 01:49:48.760 --> 01:49:50.840 as well. It's a different way of approaching it, but 2188 01:49:51.159 --> 01:49:52.720 it shows you can come out that you can come 2189 01:49:52.760 --> 01:49:54.920 at it from two different perspectives, and I think that's versatile. 2190 01:49:56.840 --> 01:49:59.159 I do want to specify without rehashing the argument. 2191 01:49:59.239 --> 01:50:02.520 My argument more to do with whether what the book 2192 01:50:02.560 --> 01:50:05.840 represents itself as versus what the book actually delivered in 2193 01:50:05.880 --> 01:50:08.479 that regard, but again not to reactually already imagine them 2194 01:50:08.479 --> 01:50:10.079 to make sure that that was clear. 2195 01:50:10.119 --> 01:50:13.479 Sure, okay, and did you want to talk about the episode? 2196 01:50:13.720 --> 01:50:15.680 Look before I've seated everything to close it out. 2197 01:50:15.800 --> 01:50:19.800 Oh yeah, before we before you end, our wonderful producer 2198 01:50:19.800 --> 01:50:22.479 who amazingly did such a great job on our audio 2199 01:50:22.520 --> 01:50:24.760 levels this time. People, you have noticed and they really 2200 01:50:24.760 --> 01:50:28.039 did a lot of work prior to this episode to 2201 01:50:28.279 --> 01:50:32.319 get off being normalized, so kudos to you. He will 2202 01:50:32.359 --> 01:50:35.039 be running an after show on the Great Debate Community Channel, 2203 01:50:35.079 --> 01:50:36.760 which is the community channel that we all kind of 2204 01:50:36.760 --> 01:50:39.600 just go to for various things. It will be streamed 2205 01:50:39.600 --> 01:50:41.039 from the non secord. 2206 01:50:40.720 --> 01:50:41.479 To Show Discord. 2207 01:50:41.520 --> 01:50:44.319 However, links will be in the video description, so if 2208 01:50:44.319 --> 01:50:45.960 you want to be a part of that, anybody can join. 2209 01:50:46.319 --> 01:50:48.079 Just you need a discord, you can use it from 2210 01:50:48.119 --> 01:50:49.880 downloading it or to go on the web. So go 2211 01:50:49.920 --> 01:50:52.840 to the non sec non secuor to show discord and 2212 01:50:52.840 --> 01:50:54.079 be a part of it, or just listen in. But 2213 01:50:54.119 --> 01:50:56.560 that'll probably be some time between fifteen to twenty minutes 2214 01:50:56.560 --> 01:50:59.399 after this episode ends. But we'll continue on the carricters 2215 01:51:00.000 --> 01:51:01.520 continue on the conversation there. 2216 01:51:02.680 --> 01:51:05.520 Yeah, okay, Jimmy will start with you just to tell 2217 01:51:05.520 --> 01:51:07.680 everybody what you got coming up if you wanna plug anything. 2218 01:51:07.840 --> 01:51:13.640 And yeah, so obviously my page is mister Atheist. We 2219 01:51:13.680 --> 01:51:15.720 talk about all the questions that atheists are asked over and 2220 01:51:15.720 --> 01:51:19.199 over again, especially those ones that are the large misconceptions 2221 01:51:19.199 --> 01:51:21.359 are made about. So we recently did one called why 2222 01:51:21.359 --> 01:51:24.079 are atheists so arrogant? We did why do atheists hate God? 2223 01:51:24.720 --> 01:51:29.119 Things along that that line of thinking. We have Sunday 2224 01:51:29.119 --> 01:51:31.399 Mass every Sunday, which is usually myself and up to 2225 01:51:31.560 --> 01:51:34.920 three other YouTubers who come on and just talk about 2226 01:51:34.920 --> 01:51:39.960 week events, usually starting with the ones that related to atheism, 2227 01:51:40.000 --> 01:51:42.760 and then the show usually quickly devolves into dick jokes. 2228 01:51:42.800 --> 01:51:44.720 I highly recommend no one ever watches it ever. 2229 01:51:46.079 --> 01:51:48.199 It's awesome, awesome, and it's fun. 2230 01:51:49.159 --> 01:51:53.159 It is fun. I on this weekend some point I 2231 01:51:53.239 --> 01:51:53.880 will post. 2232 01:51:54.119 --> 01:51:55.920 I was on Steve's show the other day and we 2233 01:51:55.960 --> 01:51:57.359 had an awesome debate with. 2234 01:51:58.880 --> 01:52:01.199 Victor Or Woton and if you guys have seen him 2235 01:52:01.199 --> 01:52:04.920 in the flatter stuff, I'm not want time. Yeah, yeah, 2236 01:52:04.960 --> 01:52:06.720 it was all about flatter Earth. It was awesome I'm 2237 01:52:06.720 --> 01:52:07.920 gonna be isolating just that. 2238 01:52:07.880 --> 01:52:09.840 Part of the stream and posting it to my channel 2239 01:52:10.239 --> 01:52:11.520 uh here in the coming days. 2240 01:52:11.640 --> 01:52:13.520 And I know I have another debate coming up, but 2241 01:52:13.560 --> 01:52:14.479 I can't think of what it is. 2242 01:52:14.479 --> 01:52:19.680 But it will be about a topic that is I'm 2243 01:52:19.680 --> 01:52:21.079 not saying this wasn't a fun topic. 2244 01:52:21.399 --> 01:52:22.439 Uh it was. 2245 01:52:22.479 --> 01:52:24.159 And I enjoyed a lot of the symbols in the 2246 01:52:24.159 --> 01:52:25.960 book and going I wouldn't even notice that was in 2247 01:52:25.960 --> 01:52:28.880 the background. But it'll be something more along than normal 2248 01:52:28.920 --> 01:52:32.479 things I do, which is evolution, flat Earth, those sorts. 2249 01:52:32.279 --> 01:52:35.560 Of things out your boxton I, which I think is 2250 01:52:35.560 --> 01:52:38.600 commendable though I mean going out to a you know, 2251 01:52:38.920 --> 01:52:39.760 an area that you're. 2252 01:52:39.640 --> 01:52:45.760 Not I mean, Okay, my my goal here, and so 2253 01:52:45.960 --> 01:52:47.479 I want to make sure this is stated. My goal 2254 01:52:47.520 --> 01:52:49.600 here was I had a book that I read that 2255 01:52:49.680 --> 01:52:52.520 I had questions for. I think Jay answered the questions. 2256 01:52:52.560 --> 01:52:54.560 I don't think that means I agree with him. I 2257 01:52:54.640 --> 01:52:56.640 wasn't bothered by a lot. 2258 01:52:56.520 --> 01:52:58.600 Of his answers. There are a few things here and there. 2259 01:52:58.640 --> 01:53:01.840 But my goal here was ask the questions about the 2260 01:53:01.880 --> 01:53:03.880 red flags I saw in the book. 2261 01:53:04.800 --> 01:53:06.600 And I think I think we I think we did that. 2262 01:53:07.479 --> 01:53:11.520 Yeah, I mean we come from a I'm a I'm 2263 01:53:11.560 --> 01:53:12.560 a paradigm thinker. 2264 01:53:12.640 --> 01:53:15.880 So my view is I believe in the transcendental argument, 2265 01:53:15.920 --> 01:53:18.680 which is obviously connected to the idea that all worldviews 2266 01:53:18.680 --> 01:53:21.760 are paradigms, and so I don't believe in the possibility 2267 01:53:21.840 --> 01:53:25.840 of neutrality. That doesn't mean I believe that all knowledge 2268 01:53:26.000 --> 01:53:28.279 or or logic or facts are relative. 2269 01:53:28.319 --> 01:53:28.880 No, not at all. 2270 01:53:28.920 --> 01:53:31.800 I believe in objectivity, but I just simply believe that 2271 01:53:31.880 --> 01:53:35.800 ultimately big picture questions are solved by comparisons of paradigms. 2272 01:53:36.479 --> 01:53:40.600 But unfortunately that also influences the way that we come 2273 01:53:40.640 --> 01:53:43.159 to books, or we write things, or we do things. 2274 01:53:43.199 --> 01:53:45.880 And so this wasn't a polemical book. This was a 2275 01:53:45.920 --> 01:53:48.439 book that was written to be fun. It was written 2276 01:53:48.439 --> 01:53:51.800 to be conspiratorial, it was written to be kind of sexy, 2277 01:53:52.520 --> 01:53:54.119 and that's what I wanted for it, and I think 2278 01:53:54.119 --> 01:53:57.000 I achieved that. But I'm welcome to be criticized, and 2279 01:53:57.000 --> 01:54:00.000 I appreciate the critiques that he brought and I'm definitely 2280 01:54:00.199 --> 01:54:03.520 and you know, going to try to hone the skills 2281 01:54:04.199 --> 01:54:04.920 for the next book. 2282 01:54:04.960 --> 01:54:07.720 So I appreciate it. And in fact, I think that. 2283 01:54:09.159 --> 01:54:11.079 When I read, when I look back and I look 2284 01:54:11.119 --> 01:54:13.119 at the book because this is actually some of these essays, 2285 01:54:13.119 --> 01:54:15.119 you know, for things I wrote my twenties, some of 2286 01:54:15.159 --> 01:54:16.680 them are are years old. 2287 01:54:17.199 --> 01:54:18.239 I kind of cringe. 2288 01:54:18.600 --> 01:54:20.239 So, I mean, I'm proud of it because it was 2289 01:54:20.279 --> 01:54:22.199 my my freshman outing. But yeah, some of the some 2290 01:54:22.239 --> 01:54:25.000 of the chapters are kind of weak. So but that's 2291 01:54:25.039 --> 01:54:26.760 what happens as you get older and you look back 2292 01:54:26.800 --> 01:54:28.199 at stuff that you wrote when you were younger. 2293 01:54:28.239 --> 01:54:30.760 But hopefully the second book will be a little. 2294 01:54:30.720 --> 01:54:35.119 From the book was sexy. It was sexy. There were 2295 01:54:35.159 --> 01:54:35.840 books if. 2296 01:54:35.760 --> 01:54:41.279 I achieved that, I achieve that that's cool, must read now. 2297 01:54:42.000 --> 01:54:46.199 Yeah, so as with Boobs Illustrations, Yeah, the. 2298 01:54:49.439 --> 01:54:51.079 Second book will be out in the next couple of months. 2299 01:54:51.319 --> 01:54:54.359 I should have a new TV show hopefully in the works. 2300 01:54:54.600 --> 01:54:56.199 That's all I can say on that, based on the 2301 01:54:56.239 --> 01:55:01.600 non disclosure agreement, and I'll be hosting uh Andy Worski's 2302 01:55:01.680 --> 01:55:05.199 Orsky Lives the foreseeable future. We'll have Ryan Dawson on Friday. 2303 01:55:05.279 --> 01:55:08.600 So he's of course a big proponent of nine to eleven. 2304 01:55:08.680 --> 01:55:11.079 Was an inside job, one of the one of the 2305 01:55:11.119 --> 01:55:14.199 better debaters of that topic. But I think actually we're 2306 01:55:14.239 --> 01:55:17.039 going to be talking comic books and the influence of 2307 01:55:17.119 --> 01:55:19.600 social justice warriors in comic books. We'll have some big 2308 01:55:19.600 --> 01:55:22.359 comic book artists on for this Friday, So that's what's 2309 01:55:22.399 --> 01:55:24.800 coming up with us and my my channel is just 2310 01:55:25.039 --> 01:55:26.920 standard stuff. We're going to keep going through the Globals 2311 01:55:26.960 --> 01:55:30.319 book series. We're going to finish the Pentagon Brain book 2312 01:55:30.319 --> 01:55:31.560 by Annie Jacobson next. 2313 01:55:32.600 --> 01:55:35.600 That's great, Well, we'll in the in the description you'll 2314 01:55:35.600 --> 01:55:38.239 find the links to Jay Channel will also link to 2315 01:55:39.119 --> 01:55:44.000 Andy Orski so that you can catch that. Uh. 2316 01:55:44.319 --> 01:55:46.239 I think that's interesting with the comic. 2317 01:55:46.079 --> 01:55:51.159 Book guys, I like that. Oh yeah, of course, mister. 2318 01:55:51.760 --> 01:55:54.520 Links are down there below as well. Remember, guys, we'll 2319 01:55:54.560 --> 01:55:58.720 beat back tomorrow at eight o'clock with Nightmare Fuel on 2320 01:55:58.760 --> 01:56:02.119 Saturday at eight with Russell Placer from The Athe's Experience 2321 01:56:02.199 --> 01:56:07.520 and Matt Powell the our our favorite. 2322 01:56:08.000 --> 01:56:11.239 Uh what did I say? I keep forgetting my said Steve, our. 2323 01:56:11.359 --> 01:56:14.479 Favorite, our our favorite, twenty two year old pastor that 2324 01:56:14.520 --> 01:56:17.760 wants to kill kids. And it's by the way, but 2325 01:56:18.199 --> 01:56:21.199 you know what were once they needed Mario needs a 2326 01:56:21.199 --> 01:56:23.600 screenshot of this. Come on, everybody. Oh yeah, Mari knows 2327 01:56:23.640 --> 01:56:27.199 the shot over your eyes, the moment. 2328 01:56:27.479 --> 01:56:28.039 It over your eye. 2329 01:56:28.079 --> 01:56:30.600 Bro over there you go, Okay, both eyes. 2330 01:56:32.840 --> 01:56:35.479 Kyle doesn't quite get it, Kyle photo. 2331 01:56:35.279 --> 01:56:37.000 Shot stuff yet. 2332 01:56:37.800 --> 01:56:39.560 I'm just gonna put binoculars in your 2333 01:56:40.479 --> 01:56:43.279 We'll see you tomorrow at Fuck you, missus, We'll see 2334 01:56:43.279 --> 01:56:43.840 you tomorrow at