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Speaker 1: Okay, so let me let me try to, at real

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quickly introduce these guys somewhat formally so that you guys

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can know what they're.

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Speaker 2: Doing and where they come from.

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Speaker 1: We'll start with Jay from Jay's Analysis, and he has

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grown to become one of the premier film and philosophy

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sites on the net, showcasing the talents of Jay Dyer,

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who's graduate focused on the interplay of film, geopolitics, espionage,

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and psychological warfare. Jay is a public speaker, lecturer, comedian,

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and author of the popular title Esoteric Hollywood Sex Cults

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and Symbols in Film, which made it to Amazon's number

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one spot its first month of release in the Film

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and Hollywood category. Jay, thank you very much for joining us.

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I'm gonna go ahead and introduce mister adies real quickly.

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Then we want to come back to you and let

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you talk about your channel and just kind of introduce

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you a little bit further from there, and let me

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switch over to mister Atheist, who is an ex Mormon

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and a content creator here on YouTube. His show, Dear

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Mister Atheist, answers the questions atheists are frequently asked. He

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also has a mini series called What's wrong with Mormonism.

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Speaker 2: Mister atheists, you've been making the round. How are you today?

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Speaker 3: So?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, man, it's been crazy sort short amount of time,

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and I feel like the prettiest girl of the dance

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I do.

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Speaker 5: We just passed him around. That's a.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Jay, let's switch over to you kind of introduce

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yourself to people who aren't familiar with you and your

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channel and whatever.

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Speaker 2: Else you think we need to know before we get

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into the meat of this.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, after the book.

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Speaker 7: Well, I'll mention that my grad work was on what

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you mentioned, but I also did another degree in philosophy

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and history, and my grad work is also my master's

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thesis is what you what you talked about, psychological warfare.

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But my my graduate thesis itself is actually my master's

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work is actually in philosophy and lit. So there's a

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whole broad variety of there of what I've studied. But

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I'm pure reviewed, academically published.

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Speaker 6: I have a.

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Speaker 7: Second book in the work, which will be the sequel

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to the first book. Hollywood Decoded is also the basis

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of a full production TV show, or my book is

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the basis for the full production TV show Hollywood Decoded.

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I'm also now the co host of Orski Live with

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Andy Worski.

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Speaker 6: And you've seen.

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Speaker 7: Me probably in a lot of YouTube debates with Richard Spencer,

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with JF. Gary Epp and other atheists and thinkers. And yeah,

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so that's what I do. Got another TV show in

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the works, that's we're shooting the pilot pretty soon. And

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that's all I can think of. There's bugs in here.

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Speaker 2: Excellent, that's quite a bit. That's quite an aggressive.

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Speaker 6: Resume.

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Speaker 5: I will say a philosophy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw it, as you said, philosophy.

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Speaker 2: I saw Steve Boning over there.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm gonna be able to get.

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Speaker 2: To that's like, we don't need them. We don't need them.

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Go ahead, say thank to you, sir.

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Speaker 4: Everyone calls me Jimmy, and that's fine. There's no need

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for a more formal mister, Atheists. My CV is nowhere

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near as impressive content creator that came on the scene

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about four months ago. The production values were what set

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me apart, but are entirely because it's what I do

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for my day job. Also, and as you mentioned, I

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answered the questions that atheists are posed over and over again.

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I do come from a Mormon background. I left Mormonism

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in my early twenties, as a result of really observing Mormonism,

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made my way past Mormonism slightly into Christianity, a little

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bit of Deism, and then all the way out to atheism,

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more agnostic or philosophical agnosticism, as Steve would prefer.

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Speaker 3: I clarify, and I.

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Speaker 4: Also am writing a book called Esoteric Esoteric Hollywood, which

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the thesis is that Jay is a member of the

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Illuminati and is only written the first book to cover

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what the Illuminati is really up to.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and this would be clipped out as proof right here.

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Speaker 2: If you do that, you know what just happened right there?

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Speaker 1: The digital Christian just spassed out when we did that.

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Speaker 6: He puts me on his channel.

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Speaker 7: I hope he exposes me and then I'll get a

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whole bunch of traffic that will work fine for me.

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But yeah, to.

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Speaker 5: Mario still has a channel that's relevant.

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Speaker 7: Okay, go ahead, Jay, Well, I'm just gonna say real quick.

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Speaker 6: Uh. I forgot to mention too.

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Speaker 7: I do represent Orthodox Christianity, so I'll be distinct from

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Roman Catholicism and Protestantism in my my approach and and

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my belief in apologetics is that I actually have a

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distinct we have a distinct approach to that as well,

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So it's not going to be rehashed Thomas Aquinas or

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rehashed you know evangelical stuff.

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Speaker 2: Awesome.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Actually, can I ask, then, in relation to that question,

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what your position on in relation to the Catholic churches,

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because this is relevant for some of the stuff down

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the way.

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Speaker 7: Well, I was Catholic for a long time, about ten

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years before I got into Orthodoxy, so I was a hardcore,

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committed fan of Aquinas very much Atomas. I attended the

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Latin Mass pretty voraciously, pretty consistently.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, Orthodoxy.

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Speaker 7: Is, you know, a completely distinct communion and completely distinct church.

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Certainly it shares a lot of similarities with the first

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thousand years of the Church, but of course in the

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second millennia they split and go their separate ways. So

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we're kind of in ways similar to Protestant and then

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in other ways similar to Catholic, depending on what the

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focus is. But but we do not believe that Romanism

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is the right religion.

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Speaker 4: Any any particular or special ill will towards them over others. I,

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for example, certainly target Mormonism more than any others on

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my channel because it's specifically what I came from and

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find the most fun to attack.

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Speaker 7: But that's people had debated Nick Fuintis over this, and

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he and I have had a pretty heated Catholic Orthodox debate,

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and only because Roman Catholics seem to get so mad

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and they're the only the only people that have like

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flagged my channel and got me banned for on Twitter

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are are Roman Catholics, So that that is part of

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the reason why there's a lot of ferocity.

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Speaker 4: So as an Orthodox Catholic, is there any any Vatican

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interaction at all?

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Speaker 3: Or is it entirely devoid of the Vatican.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, Orthodoxy among other things split over in ten fifty four.

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Roughly they split over the question of the role of

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the pope. So we see all bishops as equal. We

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believe in the ecumenical the council view of the Church,

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not in the idea of papal infallibility or papal ex cathedral.

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So that's one of the key central aspects of what

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we differ over. But then we also differ over the

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nature of Christ and who God is, how we know God,

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how we experience God. Everything ends up being different.

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Speaker 3: Is sorry, am I derailing things?

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Speaker 7: Is this?

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Speaker 3: How did you want? Is this okay?

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Speaker 6: Now?

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Speaker 2: Okay, this is fine?

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Speaker 1: Whenever you my phone, whenever you get ready, I'll I'll

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just for the first question out, but if you need context.

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Speaker 6: Go for yeah.

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Speaker 3: So for the last question, I guess is yeah, go ahead.

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Speaker 7: Well my question is just about the process. So are

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we going to jump right into and I don't care

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either way, but are we going to talk about I

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think you titled it what like like Hollywood occultism or

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Hollywood or are we going to do that or.

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Speaker 3: All of my act questions have to do with your book?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Basically all of what's gonna happen is he's going

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to get the context that he needs.

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Speaker 2: And then what we do here is we.

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Speaker 1: Don't like they're not rigid structured debates where it's you know,

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you get this time, he gets this time. We kind

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of like to have a free flowing kind of conversation

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because you get more out of it.

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Speaker 2: So we're going to focus on the symbolism.

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Speaker 1: What once he gets like what he needs context, I'm

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gonna throw it to you and let you kind of

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put out the premise with what your books about and

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kind of what you're, what you're you're claiming and all that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and yeah, even my first question is

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largely related to to what you just stated. All all

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of my questions that follow, while they may deviate from

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the pages here and there, it's yeah, it's all related

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to the book.

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Speaker 3: I am curious whether or not.

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Speaker 4: And this is just pure curiosity, not about to start

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a fight with Orthodoxy.

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Speaker 3: Are they Young Earth.

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Speaker 4: Or are they or does it vary like with Moremanism,

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They're they're younger Mormons and naturalist Mormons who just believe

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in occasional intervention.

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Speaker 7: There are plenty of Orthodox who do accept evolution in

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both micro macro senses. There are pretty plenty of Orthodox

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who accept Old and Young Earth. So for us, it's

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not typically something that's dogmatic. Although I do believe in creation,

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so I tend to argue against a.

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Speaker 6: Big scale evolution, and.

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Speaker 3: That that part I knew. I was just curious if,

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as you talked.

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Speaker 7: About, I don't I don't have a dogmatic Yeah, I

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don't have a dogmatic nor do I have a dogmatic

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argument about the specific age per se of.

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Speaker 3: The Okay, cool, cool, Okay, that's I think. That's all

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I mean a good moment.

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Speaker 1: You're good and one more little side that I think

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it's it should be put out there because it's to me.

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Speaker 2: It was epic and it was just it was just

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a sweet thing.

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Speaker 1: Uh, with you and Richard Spencer when you you guys debated.

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Can you tell people what the what you guys debated over?

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's a few, but.

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Speaker 4: I know which one you're asking about, so because he's

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done it a few times, so I'll tell Jay he's

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asking specifically about which political party Jesus would have been

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a part of, And yeah, if that helps give a

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hint toward which.

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Speaker 6: You guys cut out for a second.

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Speaker 7: But but the question was what what political party would

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Jesus be Yeah, So he was.

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Speaker 4: Asking you about your Richard Spencer debate, and I was saying,

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I know which one he's specifically asking about, and it

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had to do with political parties. So I was just

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trying to give you the context before you answer, because

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I know you've done other debates with him, So which

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specific debate is before?

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Speaker 2: I thought it was a great premise. It was if Jesus.

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Speaker 6: Was all right or not?

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Speaker 3: Would be all right? How well?

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Speaker 6: How was he?

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Speaker 2: Uh? As far as somebody that you know, because he's

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a controversial figure.

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Speaker 1: Was that a decision that you kind of made lightly

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or did you get he kind of backlash from you know,

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entertaining having a debate with somebody like that.

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Speaker 2: I'm just curious. It seems like you'd get some flat

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for that.

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Speaker 7: Maybe minimal, but uh, you know, I I think pretty

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clearly distinguished my positions from his. So you know, I mean,

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Richard debates black He debates black checks on on YouTube,

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so you know, he debates all kinds of people.

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Speaker 6: Uh, you know, he debates Jewish guys.

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Speaker 1: I only bring that up because we just announced yesterday

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about Sargon coming on in bar Gone.

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Speaker 6: For some people, you.

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Speaker 2: Would have thought the world ended.

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Speaker 1: Uh you know, you get those people who could out there.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe you're giving something like that a platform.

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Speaker 1: And I just wondered if you got the same thing

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with with a somebody Richard Spencer, I mean very.

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Speaker 7: Nonmal I mean, I mean there was some criticism, but

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really it was it was hosted app based Baked Alaska's channel.

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Speaker 6: It wasn't my channel, And you know.

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Speaker 7: The question and the weird thing was that originally it

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was supposed to be a debate, and then the day

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before Richard said, would let's just have an.

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Speaker 6: A conversation and I was like, well, you already agreed to.

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Speaker 7: A debate, so and so then we we we agreed

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on something in between.

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Speaker 6: We called it an exchange.

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Speaker 7: But I think James also in Baked Alaska, is still

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called it a debate, which is fine with me, and

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that's what it was supposed to.

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Speaker 6: Be, but not really. Not many people in me flack

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over it.

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Speaker 4: But I generally use the three words interchangeably if I'm

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coming on with anybody I disagree with.

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Speaker 3: Debate, exchange or discussion.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, they're change.

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Speaker 3: So let's get to discussion.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna let Jay kind of explaining what his books

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about and the premise that he's coming from, and then

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this atheist you can once he gets finished, ask whatever

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question that you have. The only thing that I asked guys,

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is that you don't talk over each other so that

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the people who are listening can understand and get your

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entire thoughts out. So that's the only rule. Just don't

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talk over each other and let each other finish out

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your faults and we'll have a good conversation.

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Speaker 7: All right, Jay, Well, basically The book is just a

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reflection of an interest that I have for a long

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time in film. Around age eighteen, I was interested in

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acting and I wrote a stand up routine.

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Speaker 6: I did stand up here and there on the side,

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just for fun.

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Speaker 7: And then when I went into university, I started studying

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a lot of history, looked at the geopolitics. It was

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also getting into conspiracy topics online, mainly for fun, and

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I started noticing that a lot of the plots of

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films really were conspiratorial, and a lot of times the

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authors of both screenplays and people who were and say

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intelligence had a lot of crossover. And then as I

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researched this for grad work, I noticed that there was

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a lot there that I thought was initially would have

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thought was absurd, the idea that the Pentagon or the

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CIA has a lot to do with telling Hollywood how

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to craft films, what messages to put into films.

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Speaker 6: So I thought that would be an interesting subject.

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Speaker 7: Matter to pursue at a graduate level and do a

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thesis on. And so I had to pick something a

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little more narrow, and I chose Ian Fleming his life

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and of course he's the creator of James Bond. If

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you're not familiar, and the way that the films were

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used as kind of Western CIA propaganda, British intelligence propaganda

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in the.

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Speaker 6: Cold War especially. So what you see is that a lot.

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Speaker 7: Of Ian Fleming's own personal exploits in Black Ops actually

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became a subtle undercurrent for what's in most of the

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Bond stories, and there's a kernel at least of truth.

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You know, Flemings fans were saying everything I write his

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President in truth, and certainly they're fiction stories, but they

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also include hermetic and alchemical and occultic themes. I think

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that Fleming spiced his novel up with those ideas. So

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that became the seed for the book that I wrote,

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which focused on mainly big directors. So I looked at

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the first eighty pages or Kubrick films Eyes, White Shirt

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Shining two thousand and one, then about eighty pages or

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so of Spielberg and H. G.

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Speaker 6: Wells, and how HG.

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Speaker 7: Wells was actually a master propagandist as well as a

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science fiction author. So I went pretty deep into the

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metaphysics and the philosophy of film and how it conveys

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meaning to us at different levels. So this is a

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question of in philosophy, what's called semiotics. So I go

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into the semiotics of film some and then I went

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into a section, as I said, on Bond, and then

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a section a little bit on Hitchcock and his presentation

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and how he actually worked with British intelligence, how different

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outfits studied Hitchcock films for their psychological value as it

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would be useful in terms of propaganda.

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Speaker 6: So what the book does.

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Speaker 7: It operates on multiple levels, analyzing imagery and analyzing narratives,

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analyzing contexts, directors, and all of that in relationship to

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real world geopolitics, real world history, and real world conspiracies

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as far as I could verify them. So it's four

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hundred and four footnotes, three hundred and sixty three pages.

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Anybody who does grad research and does if you're a

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research assistant, you'll have to do a lot of footnoting.

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So I'm very pretty anal retentive about footnoting. So I

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try to source everything as well and as best as

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I can, hence the library behind me.

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Speaker 6: So that's what the book is.

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Speaker 7: It's an analysis of the big directors in their films

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in terms of all of those levels.

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Speaker 6: I see.

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Speaker 2: I see Steed in the corner.

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Speaker 1: Every time you you make a philosophical.

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Speaker 2: Philosophical word.

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Speaker 5: What I like philosophy? Why is that so bad? See

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the crap? You see this?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, if you do a philosophy degree, I mean, you know,

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the dumb joke always heard when I was doing grad

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school was oor the philosophy, Uh, factories hiring.

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Speaker 6: When you get out. So you know, I mean you're

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pretty limited.

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Speaker 7: You can either go on and get the pH d

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and try to teach, or you can do what I do,

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and you know, go out there and write books and

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and do what I do in philosophy.

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Speaker 5: You have to wonder did you really get your degree?

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Or not to get to my degree? You did you

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get that?

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Speaker 6: Good?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm coming around, okay, straight?

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Hello, So I'm gonna treat this more as the hard

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start with the the hello to Well.

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Speaker 3: First of all, thank you Jay for agreeing to come on.

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Speaker 4: I think it's commendable anybody who has opinions that are

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obviously I mean, you acknowledge that you are trying to

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expose conspiracies or I hope I'm not doing you this

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service and saying that, And so that's going to be

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a polarizing issue. And I think it's cool that you're

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willing to come on have your claims be investigated.

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Speaker 3: In or criticized. I think that's awesome.

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Speaker 4: I don't mean this to be patronizing. I genuinely mean

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well done in congratulations on both getting a book written

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and published and on the Amazon number one for its category.

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Speaker 3: I don't mean that to be like a take.

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Speaker 4: It any that's awesome and it's much more than I've done.

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Maybe I mean this compliment to be this comment to

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be a slightly patronizing. I can say that of all

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the books I've ever read, this one is certainly the

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most recent.

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Speaker 3: That was my joke for the day. Okay, So the

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question I actually.

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Speaker 4: Want to start out with is, in reading your book,

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it seems like you and correct me if I'm wrong,

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but it's mean like you believe there is an actual

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underground cult behind Hollywood. But in addition, there are times

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in your book where you seem to talk about different

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and separate cults Darwinian cult, Stockanism cults, which maybe those

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are the same one. So I'm actually curious to know,

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before we get too deep into the details of the book,

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just how many underground cults are at work in your

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view as far as and that have a significant influence

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on population and.

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Speaker 3: Via whatever pop culture or anything.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 7: Well, now, in the world of Hollywood, there are multiple

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cults that are pretty well known as having a degree

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of influence and a well known Hollywood retinue, right, So,

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I mean, we can think of Scientology and all the

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high level Hollywood people who've been involved in scientology. We

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can think of the Nexium cult recently that was in

390
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the news with the Alison Mack and Keith Rinair stories

391
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of sex trafficking.

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Speaker 6: We can think of the Children.

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Speaker 7: Of God col Moses Berg, who was pedophile connected to

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Hollywood people who you know, this is where we get

395
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Rose McGowan, the Phoenix family, River Phoenix and so forth.

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Speaker 6: They come out of the Children of God cult.

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Speaker 7: So I mean, the Oto has obviously a quite.

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Speaker 6: A few adherents in Hollywood.

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Speaker 7: Cabbalism and the Cobbolah, quite a few people have been

400
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influenced by that in Hollywood.

401
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Speaker 6: People like Rosenne talk about it pretty openly.

402
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Speaker 7: So I wouldn't be so absurd as to say that

403
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there's there's only one cult. But if we were to

404
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come up with the idea of one overwriting cult in Hollywood,

405
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it would be actually the CIA, and the CIA is

406
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actually treated as a as a cult, and this goes

407
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into the history of intelligence agencies and how cults operate.

408
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So I'm not saying that every person in the CIA

409
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or in his history literally isn't a cultist or a Luciferian.

410
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But if you look at the history of Skull and Bones,

411
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the way it was set up, which is where the

412
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CIA comes from, Yale, Harvard and so.

413
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Speaker 6: Forth, they do have a very occult aspect to them.

414
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Speaker 7: And for me, regardless of whether you believe in anything supernatural,

415
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really is just a question of trafficking in secrets, in

416
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secret information.

417
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Speaker 6: So what we see in Hollywood is no different. We

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see a lot of.

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Speaker 7: People who are high profile who can be blackmailed. This

420
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actually just came out with Hattie Flies today. She was

421
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admitting that how much of her Black Book was so important,

422
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and famous whistleblowers and people from prostitution and prominent madam

423
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positions have talked about how their work is used as blackmail,

424
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like Henry Vinson Confessions of a DC Madam at Deborah

425
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Parfrey and so forth, and they actually tie into at times,

426
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not always, but at times cults like the Franklin cover up,

427
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So there will be a I think you'll notice if

428
00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:55,279
you research system definitely that a lot of these networks

429
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will connect together. So I'm not saying that everybody in

430
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Hollywood is run by a cult or that the all

431
00:22:00,279 --> 00:22:03,279
put through the same brainwashing. But at the top of

432
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a lot of these groups, you'll you'll find a lot

433
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of collusion. Uh And ultimately I would say that the

434
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Pentagon and the CIA do have a tremendous amount of

435
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influence in Hollywood.

436
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Speaker 4: I can't hear the word collusion without wanting to do

437
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my Trump impression.

438
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Speaker 5: There was new.

439
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 4: Collusion, but then the huge, huge, new, absolutely new collusion.

440
00:22:27,279 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 5: Words.

441
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Speaker 6: There you go.

442
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Speaker 3: I new where it's the best words. And now I'm

443
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actually trying.

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Speaker 1: To think you two of my favorite guests that we've had.

445
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Speaker 5: I'm loving this. That's good. That's good.

446
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Speaker 4: So uh so with the Number one cult, and again,

447
00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:44,160
I'm never let me straw man. I'll even let you

448
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,519
interrupt me to prevent a straw man, even though that

449
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,480
was the big rule with the Number one cult, or

450
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at least the thing being linked altogether, this being the CIA.

451
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,240
I guess the concern I have and the wonder I

452
00:22:55,279 --> 00:22:58,880
have after reading your book is uh, Well, would you

453
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say first of all that the book is meant to

454
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expose that idea that the underlying linking.

455
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Speaker 3: If there has to be a number one cult, it's

456
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the CIA, or is there a specific cult you would

457
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,359
say your book is trying to reveal or just the

458
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idea that occultism is alive and well in Hollywood.

459
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Speaker 7: Well, like I said, like so sometimes you'll have something

460
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like the OTO, which has a lot of adherence in

461
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Hollywood and high level finance and things like that.

462
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Speaker 6: I'm not saying that everybody in that group is part.

463
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Speaker 7: Of the exact same you know, I get that a gender, right,

464
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But there are people who do intelligence work who are

465
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,119
and have written many books on how to manipulate and

466
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use cults. There are a lot of white papers that

467
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,079
have been written on how to manipulate and use cults

468
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,359
as even an experiment at times. So the purpose might

469
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,720
be different in different cases. But yeah, I would say

470
00:23:51,759 --> 00:23:56,039
overall it's easily And I understand the skepticism because when

471
00:23:56,039 --> 00:23:59,599
I first came into studying this question in my undergrad

472
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,200
I thought, if somebody had said the CIA in Hollywood

473
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have flipped side of the same coin back then when

474
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I was like twenty two or three.

475
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Speaker 6: I would have thought that was crazy.

476
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,039
Speaker 7: But after spending a lot of time in that and

477
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,839
looking at a lot of other academics who've actually backed

478
00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:16,440
this up with their research, it's like, yeah, that's obvious

479
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,000
to me now, right, this is why.

480
00:24:18,039 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 6: They're so there.

481
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 7: And if you look at the history of intelligence operations,

482
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,240
you can find so many famous people who did intelligence

483
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,000
work on the side, who were intelligence assets, like Jimmy

484
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,799
Stewart or Carry Grant. Julia Child worked for the OSS.

485
00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:34,720
This is fairly prominent, right. Coco Chanel was a famous spy.

486
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,160
So all these people did this kind of on the

487
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,119
side at times. So it's not that everything is necessarily

488
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,799
under the religious aspect of a cult. As if, like

489
00:24:44,839 --> 00:24:48,400
the CIA handler thinks, oh, everyone under me is under

490
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,119
my religious hand, they can just be under him in

491
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,480
a manipulative sense. He could just have dirt on them.

492
00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:55,759
It doesn't have to be religious in every time or

493
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,799
every case. But also, I was writing my book for

494
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,119
a pop audience. It's not just written for an academic audience.

495
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,759
If you write something just academic, you're not going to

496
00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:06,359
sell a lot of books. So it had to be

497
00:25:06,519 --> 00:25:09,200
kind of also written in the language of pop culture.

498
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,759
So at times, yeah, I'll talk about something like the Illuminati.

499
00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:15,039
I don't have a problem talking about that, because while

500
00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:17,920
there are many groups that embody the idea of the

501
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,680
Illuminati today, there actually is a historical Illuminati that you

502
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,799
can trace academically and historically in a lot of main,

503
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:26,960
mainline history books.

504
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 2: Juliet Child's.

505
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:32,519
Speaker 3: And perhaps.

506
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,839
Speaker 6: She was in the osays.

507
00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: So, and perhaps this is.

508
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,799
Speaker 4: Where our first point of conflict is going to come,

509
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,519
because what I'm understanding is I read this book and

510
00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:47,039
I'm trying to figure out who exactly it's exposing, and

511
00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:49,880
that's it's not actually easy to directly come up with that,

512
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,160
And I certainly wouldn't have come out with that theme

513
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,599
of if there is a connecting entity to expose, it

514
00:25:55,599 --> 00:25:59,799
would be the CIA. What I see is a book

515
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,880
that at in much in a conspiratorial way, looks to

516
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,920
all of these things and says, ah, if you look

517
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,720
through this lens, this becomes obvious if you look through

518
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,119
this lens. In fact, somewhere toward the beginning of the book,

519
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,400
you even suggest I'm going to teach you how to

520
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,200
watch it the way I watch it, And then it'll

521
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,000
become obvious.

522
00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 3: But when I see somebody actually.

523
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 4: Expose a cult, expose scientology, I see money followed, I

524
00:26:26,039 --> 00:26:29,640
see family lineage to some degree followed less important. But

525
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,240
people are naming names and following the following them. I

526
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:38,759
mean even even in non cult exposition. Or John Oliver

527
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,400
is like my favorite person who exposes things more that

528
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,920
we just didn't realize was going on than was necessarily

529
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:44,759
a giant secret.

530
00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:47,079
Speaker 3: And that's the tactic he takes. He names names, and

531
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:48,039
he follows the money.

532
00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 4: And while there is some name naming, it's then dependent

533
00:26:51,559 --> 00:26:55,200
upon what if after he got done doing this work

534
00:26:55,799 --> 00:26:58,160
around the time that the moon landing was supposed to

535
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,559
be happening and NASA had act sess to these Hollywood

536
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,119
sound studios. It almost seems like the leap then is

537
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,759
what if when he supposedly was done all of that,

538
00:27:08,839 --> 00:27:12,359
he wasn't actually done. That's I guess one of my

539
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,759
primary conflicts with the book. It's a little too much

540
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,799
of a confirmation bias masturbatory aid.

541
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,039
Speaker 3: If I may be crass, it's a.

542
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 4: Here's how to look at it, and now if you

543
00:27:23,519 --> 00:27:25,519
look at it, look how obvious it becomes.

544
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 6: Right, Well, let me let's take you. Let's take it

545
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:31,759
through some specific examples.

546
00:27:31,839 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 7: So let's take Kubrick and I don't say, by the way,

547
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,599
I don't make the claim that Kubrick filmed the moonlandings.

548
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 6: So that's not in my book.

549
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, but it's right. But it's verifiable that Kubrick did

550
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,400
work with NASA. That can easily be verified. He worked

551
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,559
with Muler of NASA because they really liked the way

552
00:27:49,599 --> 00:27:52,960
he shot things, and they wanted to share insight and

553
00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:57,160
information on how to do film work because obviously NASA

554
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,759
is interested in camera work too, right, So whatever anybody's

555
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,319
onions of the moon landing are, it's very easy to

556
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,759
verify that Kubrick collaborated with NASA. Now, again, I'm not

557
00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:08,920
saying that that means anything beyond that.

558
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 6: That's I'm just saying.

559
00:28:09,839 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 7: That's one example where you do see a clear working together. Now,

560
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,119
let me say on the claim that intelligence agencies operate

561
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,680
like a cult. Okay, that has been written about by

562
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,079
many people in a mainline academic way.

563
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,559
Speaker 6: So one book on that is called Cloak and Gown

564
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:28,599
by Robin Winks.

565
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 7: This is a famous work on the history of intelligence agencies,

566
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,799
and it's specifically the history of the CIA operating like

567
00:28:35,839 --> 00:28:38,119
a cult. Right, So I don't really care whether a

568
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,519
person believes in the CIA being a cultic or not.

569
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,559
Speaker 6: The main point is that they operate like a cult.

570
00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 7: And when it comes to the way that so many

571
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,759
people in Hollywood, especially during the Cold War, were recruited

572
00:28:51,799 --> 00:28:56,480
into working for the FBI, Jimmy Stewart was a famous

573
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,880
FBI asset even may he even made movies in tan

574
00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:02,880
them with j Edgar Hoover. Is a famous movie called

575
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,000
The FBI Story, and Jimmy Stewart's like playing all these

576
00:29:06,039 --> 00:29:08,640
different roles without throughout human history.

577
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 6: As the FBI. Jimmy starts the hero America and the FBI.

578
00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:18,079
Speaker 7: Right, So you can just watch that movie and you see, right,

579
00:29:18,119 --> 00:29:20,640
they're a clear example of that kind of a collusion

580
00:29:20,759 --> 00:29:24,160
during the Cold War. And so I understand that these

581
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,559
are a lot of different specific examples, But what I'm

582
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:28,640
saying is that when you go to something like the

583
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,359
academic work, whereas it I've got it here with.

584
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:35,039
Speaker 6: Me operation Hollywood.

585
00:29:35,079 --> 00:29:38,119
Speaker 7: Yeah, let me show you this book. So when I

586
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,960
started looking at the question from an academic perspective, and

587
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,960
this is all people from various universities who study.

588
00:29:46,599 --> 00:29:49,519
Speaker 6: The same stuff I do. And this is put out

589
00:29:49,559 --> 00:29:51,920
by David Robb and what they.

590
00:29:51,839 --> 00:29:55,559
Speaker 7: Do is basically go through the last several decades of

591
00:29:55,599 --> 00:29:59,400
Hollywood's revisions of scripts. So this is at a very

592
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,279
kind of base, not conspiratorial, just an academic look at

593
00:30:03,559 --> 00:30:06,920
the different times of the Pentagon told movies. No, you

594
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,839
can't do this if you want to use our aircraft

595
00:30:08,839 --> 00:30:10,799
carrier in the background, if you want to use our tanks,

596
00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:13,039
you got to do this. Oh we want this tweaked

597
00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:17,160
here because this doesn't portray America right in this Cold

598
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:17,839
War setting.

599
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 6: Blah blah blah. Countless examples. There's probably seventy.

600
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 7: Eighty movies that they go through in this text, written

601
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,480
by multiple scholars. Another thing I would say that that

602
00:30:28,519 --> 00:30:31,079
sort of backs up one side of this thesis is

603
00:30:31,319 --> 00:30:32,079
the famous book.

604
00:30:32,079 --> 00:30:36,039
Speaker 6: This is put out by University of Texas professor Tricia Jenkins.

605
00:30:35,599 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 7: Book The CIA in Hollywood. It's pretty expensive on Amazon.

606
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,319
That's because it's like her PhD. Yeah, I think it's

607
00:30:41,319 --> 00:30:44,640
her PhD thesis, And she does the same thing. She

608
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,920
goes through the history of how many times, especially in

609
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,960
more recent times. So she for example, there's a whole

610
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:56,519
chapter on jj Abrams and who's the chick from Alias,

611
00:30:56,759 --> 00:31:00,960
Jennifer Garner, you know, working together to consult with the

612
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,440
CIA on the film the series Alias. And so when

613
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,119
you start to look at like Chase Brandon Milt Bearden,

614
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,839
who are the two well known CIA liaisons in Hollywood,

615
00:31:11,839 --> 00:31:15,000
and how they consulted on movies like Meet the Parents,

616
00:31:15,319 --> 00:31:17,079
how they consult on movies.

617
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 6: Like Wag the Dog. By the way, Wag the Dog

618
00:31:20,519 --> 00:31:21,519
is about what I'm telling you about.

619
00:31:21,519 --> 00:31:24,119
Speaker 7: There's a whole movie made about the CIA consulting with

620
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,880
Hollywood and so forth. It's it's satirical, but it still,

621
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,799
you know, kind of hammers the point home. So these

622
00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:32,680
are just kind of the beginning points where I started

623
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,839
this journey this question. So I didn't immediately when I

624
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,039
looked at these texts say, oh, then that's the illuminati

625
00:31:38,079 --> 00:31:40,240
that runs everything. No, I mean, I'm just saying, these

626
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,000
are academic sources. If people want peer review, you want

627
00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:46,279
hard evidence outside of my book, and all these books

628
00:31:46,319 --> 00:31:48,720
are sourced of course inside it in my book.

629
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,279
Speaker 6: You can look at that to begin your track down

630
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:52,960
this rabbit hole.

631
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,119
Speaker 7: But so then what happens is if you look at

632
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,079
the cult side of Hollywood that I mentioned early on,

633
00:32:00,119 --> 00:32:02,960
and you said scientology, You said, what I see is money,

634
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:03,880
what I see is fame.

635
00:32:04,319 --> 00:32:05,319
Speaker 6: I would totally agree with you.

636
00:32:05,319 --> 00:32:07,519
Speaker 7: I would say, many cases when people come out of

637
00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:11,680
Scientology and they like Ramini and she talks about it,

638
00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:13,599
she says, oh, they were, you know, abusing us and

639
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,680
this and that, and that's all true at one level.

640
00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:20,920
But I would say, if you've read Edward Barne's book Propaganda,

641
00:32:21,319 --> 00:32:23,400
one of the things that Brene says is that the

642
00:32:23,559 --> 00:32:26,240
greatest tool for propaganda.

643
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,559
Speaker 6: The world has ever seen is Hollywood.

644
00:32:27,759 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 7: And so he made that a central aspect of the

645
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:35,279
way that the advertising because he actually went from working

646
00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:39,880
with the State Department to working with advertising and mass

647
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,720
marketing to tell them how to manipulate human psychology so

648
00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:47,240
that mass advertising campaigns would be successful. Brene said that

649
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:52,039
Hollywoo would be key to controlling and engineering people's perception. So,

650
00:32:52,279 --> 00:32:56,400
long story short, there are just countless white papers, countless

651
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,480
documents that you can very easily verify from the vantage

652
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,480
point of the CIA, from the vantage point of the

653
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,279
Pentagon think tanks that very openly discuss using so many

654
00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:13,480
movies films in this perspective of big scale social engineering.

655
00:33:13,559 --> 00:33:15,880
So even if you want to say, well, it's not

656
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,599
a cult, I would just say, okay, I don't care

657
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,799
whether we use the word cult or not. I think

658
00:33:21,799 --> 00:33:24,559
it is like a cult, like Robin Winks's book Cloak

659
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:29,519
and Gown says, but at least in practice, it functions

660
00:33:29,599 --> 00:33:34,720
as simply a tool to control people's perception. And that's

661
00:33:34,759 --> 00:33:37,440
why there's a giant machinery that goes into making pop

662
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:38,960
stars as well.

663
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,519
Speaker 4: I'm certainly not going to argue that no social engineering

664
00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:45,039
happens in Hollywood. That would be ridiculous and ignorant to

665
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:49,000
make that claim. It's more that i'm The argument I

666
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,319
want to have is actually, what it almost sounded like

667
00:33:51,359 --> 00:33:54,079
you were dismissing is that this book seems to claim

668
00:33:54,119 --> 00:33:58,799
to expose precisely what that social engineering is geared toward toward.

669
00:33:59,119 --> 00:34:01,240
And it seems to me you only need to pick

670
00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:03,839
something different to do the exact same thing. And I

671
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,599
could write a whole book on how these people who

672
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,880
learned via through consulting with the CIA. I'll grant you

673
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,280
every point, because I'm not I don't know well enough

674
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,360
about all these white papers to.

675
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 3: Say you're wrong.

676
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,159
Speaker 4: If you are so I'll grant you all of those.

677
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,039
It seems like all I need to do is go, Okay,

678
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,039
what if I wanted to change my lens to Hollywood

679
00:34:23,119 --> 00:34:27,480
is trying to program us all into a monogamous, not transform,

680
00:34:27,559 --> 00:34:31,679
but maintain it into a monogamous, heteronormative culture, because that

681
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,159
is the easiest thing for them to gear their social

682
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,480
engineering towards. Is that's what they have traditionally worked with.

683
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:41,880
And then I can go through and find those themes

684
00:34:42,599 --> 00:34:43,920
of still monogamy.

685
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,559
Speaker 3: I just have to choose different movies.

686
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 4: And in fact, what I found interesting about this book

687
00:34:49,079 --> 00:34:54,519
too is in trying to apparently expose this ginormous underlying plot,

688
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,960
you chose a series of movies that a lot of

689
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,519
people have seen, but I've seen less than half of them.

690
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,480
So whatever this group is doing, love, I hope it's

691
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,639
your new book that's going to come in with some

692
00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:08,639
examples of maybe what's And I'm a little bit younger,

693
00:35:08,679 --> 00:35:13,079
clearly I'm not over the age of fourteen, but thee

694
00:35:13,159 --> 00:35:15,960
I hope some more modern examples of how this is

695
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,199
still being maintained, because otherwise it seems to me if

696
00:35:19,199 --> 00:35:23,440
everything comes from that sort of restricted time period just

697
00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:27,800
as as feasible an idea that the reason the movies

698
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,599
look that way is because it's what was popular in

699
00:35:30,679 --> 00:35:33,760
culture at the time. And even if these people learn

700
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:39,119
things while doing other social engineering in these CIA plots

701
00:35:39,199 --> 00:35:44,239
or Cold war propaganda or whatever, I wouldn't expect them

702
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,280
everything that I would expect to see similarities between the

703
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,840
movies they made then and the movies they made later.

704
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 6: I don't.

705
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 4: Again, confirmation bias is what it feels like. The whole

706
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,519
book is about, here's the lens I'm going to use,

707
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,239
here's the information that does. I mean, it's a it's

708
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,199
a lot to think about, and it's there's a lot

709
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,840
of things where it's like, Okay, why is that? But

710
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,000
then it's also like why do I need to make

711
00:36:10,079 --> 00:36:13,159
that jump? So why do you see that? You can

712
00:36:13,199 --> 00:36:15,599
respond to anything I said, But I'd love to see well, yeah.

713
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 6: So like in the second book. Yeah, so in the

714
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:18,719
second book.

715
00:36:18,559 --> 00:36:21,079
Speaker 7: I bring in in the first uh several the first

716
00:36:21,119 --> 00:36:25,840
couple chapters, if I recall the concept of the various

717
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:27,719
mafias that have had influence in Hollywood.

718
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,639
Speaker 6: So again, I feel like you're trying to push me.

719
00:36:30,679 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 7: Into a position where I have to say that I'm

720
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:39,760
consistently claiming there's only one single group that runs everything. No, Okay,

721
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,719
well that's I mean, I'm very I try to be

722
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,000
very nuanced, And in fact, what you're hitting on is

723
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,360
something that I specifically did want to include in the sequel,

724
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,519
which is the question of the mafia, and this before

725
00:36:50,559 --> 00:36:52,800
I looked into that was an area where I was

726
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,079
kind of unclear how it fit in, because obviously there's

727
00:36:55,079 --> 00:36:57,000
been a lot of mob of influence in Hollywood.

728
00:36:56,599 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 6: Over the decades.

729
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 7: So what I tried to do was look at the

730
00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:03,880
the tie in between how the mafia and the CIA

731
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,360
have actually made deals and worked together at times. This

732
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,519
is actually portrayed by the way in Mario Puzzo's The

733
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:15,760
Godfather you have in the initial installment, he deals with

734
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:21,599
the way that the Mafia basically told certain directors what

735
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,199
movies would and wouldn't be made. And I try to

736
00:37:24,199 --> 00:37:26,840
be fair to different mafias in their influence in Hollywood.

737
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,159
So there's a big, famous book called by Gus Russo

738
00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:34,480
about Sydney Korshak and his influence in the mafia in

739
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:39,000
Hollywood and Vegas. So that's a giant, six hundred page,

740
00:37:39,039 --> 00:37:42,519
famous academic book. I've sourced that many times in the

741
00:37:42,559 --> 00:37:44,880
first few chapters of my new book. And if you

742
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,679
know about the mafia, you know that they operate also

743
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:52,920
like a cult, and I see the CIA as a mafia.

744
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,199
Speaker 6: Maybe that's a better wady to put it.

745
00:37:54,199 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 7: But you'll notice that the same kind of initiation rituals

746
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,320
for the Coast and Nostra for the Sicilian mafia, for

747
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:01,519
other mafias as well.

748
00:38:01,599 --> 00:38:03,280
Speaker 6: It's very similar to the kind.

749
00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 7: Of initiation virtuals that if you read about Skull and

750
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,719
Bones at Gale, the kinds of initiation that they go through,

751
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,000
the oaths that have to be made, so life or

752
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:11,440
death thing.

753
00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:13,599
Speaker 6: You don't leave this, this is your whole life. You're

754
00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:14,320
owned by the state.

755
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 7: Basically, the mafia have used it the same way, and

756
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,480
there have been documented historical instances declassified papers about the

757
00:38:21,519 --> 00:38:23,559
CIA and the mafia making deals together.

758
00:38:23,559 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 6: For example, the Bay of Pigs.

759
00:38:25,599 --> 00:38:29,599
Speaker 7: There were MOB connected people who were involved in the

760
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,119
failed invasion, this the so called Bay of Pigs, So

761
00:38:33,119 --> 00:38:36,679
that was actually a deal between kind up question, there's.

762
00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 4: A distinction that I'm now having a problem with. What

763
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,880
is your distinction between a cult, a religion, or a

764
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,440
cult and a political party because I'm again I'm trying

765
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,039
to not sound like a douche through this whole thing,

766
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:50,199
but honestly I will.

767
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:51,519
Speaker 3: I don't know if I can come up with an

768
00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:53,280
organization the same question.

769
00:38:55,639 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 5: Clarified by a cult.

770
00:38:58,039 --> 00:39:01,199
Speaker 7: Right, So I mean I believe that a cult generally, yes,

771
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,639
it has a religious connotation of some figure, some deity

772
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,639
that everybody has to submit to. And then the representation

773
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:11,280
of the leader in the cult. You know, he has

774
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,920
supreme power. This is generally what people think of when

775
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,280
they think of a cult, and I'm saying that in practice. Again,

776
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,400
there are many mainline academic books like Cloak and Gown

777
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,119
that will show you that the functioning of intelligence agencies

778
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,920
are just like cults, and the History of intelligence Agencies.

779
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,039
You can read Francis the Vornix's famous book on the

780
00:39:31,079 --> 00:39:33,760
history of the rise of intelligence agencies out of Byzantium.

781
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,800
These are all mainline academic works. They will make the

782
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,639
same comparison. So the comparison is not something that I'm inventing.

783
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,360
It's a comparison that is normative in the history of

784
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,239
intelligence research. Alan Dulles in his book The Craft of Intelligence,

785
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,480
he goes back to the Israelite spies to give the

786
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,800
earliest examples of the functioning of intelligence agencies like religious organizations.

787
00:39:57,199 --> 00:39:59,559
So I'm not the person who came up with that

788
00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:03,679
compar it's it's prevalent in the literature you can read.

789
00:40:03,679 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 4: It just seems like the way you're using the word

790
00:40:08,119 --> 00:40:11,920
isn't necessarily as it certainly has its precedence and intelligence,

791
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,039
and I think they probably had perhaps a more precise definition.

792
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,559
I dare say, it seems like you're making the comparison

793
00:40:18,679 --> 00:40:21,519
useless because I feel I could use your use of

794
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,880
act like a cult to describe virtually anything, any organization.

795
00:40:27,039 --> 00:40:30,119
Speaker 3: It does. It does feel like you very broadly.

796
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 7: Okay, But but if we talk about the way, for example,

797
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,000
agents offering operates sometimes in Hollywood, if you've read any

798
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,039
biographies of people who've had to deal with an agent

799
00:40:43,079 --> 00:40:46,079
who you know, kind of ran their life, and especially

800
00:40:46,119 --> 00:40:48,559
as you climb up the ladder, a lot of times

801
00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:50,440
agents have a lot of power they can they can

802
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,639
you know, basically like in the case of Elvis and

803
00:40:53,679 --> 00:40:58,679
his his agent, Colonel Tom. He was who supplied Elvis

804
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,920
with drugs, so he had a lot of influence in

805
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,480
Elvis's life. Uh, and and a lot of control by extension,

806
00:41:04,599 --> 00:41:09,199
especially as a high level military guy. So I mean,

807
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,039
I think that to me, that's just a common sense

808
00:41:11,079 --> 00:41:13,280
kind of analysis. But so I'm not really getting what

809
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,000
what the point is is that you're just basically saying

810
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,519
that I'm misusing the word cult. And all I was

811
00:41:18,519 --> 00:41:21,280
trying to do was to say that if you want

812
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,880
to use a broad definition of psychological manipulation, then then

813
00:41:26,039 --> 00:41:26,719
you can say that.

814
00:41:28,079 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 4: But I don't think, yeah, I'm not just trying to

815
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,800
make a silly point of like you're using the word

816
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,639
wrong for more, especially as an atheist, I hear that

817
00:41:39,679 --> 00:41:42,280
word abused a lot, the word atheists and and and

818
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,880
the stretch is made and people will use or the

819
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,400
word faith actually is a better.

820
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 3: One to use, so I can go into your realm

821
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:49,119
a little bit more.

822
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 4: The word faith is just used so broadly, but people

823
00:41:54,079 --> 00:41:58,320
use it interchangeably in places where you can't actually necessarily

824
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,039
tell which power they've given that word. And so it's

825
00:42:02,039 --> 00:42:05,239
not just the broad use, it's then the continued use

826
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,239
as though it has a more significant power, more significant

827
00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:12,880
is represented more significantly, when again it seems to be

828
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,159
following with that the next argument now we've got cults,

829
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,679
agents act like cults. I really don't know what organization

830
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,639
with any kind of head that has more power than

831
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,639
than the people under couldn't be used so vaguely. But

832
00:42:25,679 --> 00:42:29,519
then when you're reading a book about exposing a cult life,

833
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,119
that has a different level of power implied.

834
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,559
Speaker 3: And I don't think your use of the word cult.

835
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:35,159
Speaker 6: Okay.

836
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 7: If a person goes against something, say that's not politically correct, right,

837
00:42:43,559 --> 00:42:47,599
it's not like a Hollywood agent has to stamp them out. Rather,

838
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,559
it's known that they're not going to get the job.

839
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,079
They get blacklisted. I mean, the idea of being blacklisted

840
00:42:54,079 --> 00:42:57,280
in Hollywood is very common. So so in other words,

841
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,079
I'm not saying that that has to be like one

842
00:43:01,079 --> 00:43:02,840
guy at the top of a pyramid who you know,

843
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,320
like makes the calls all day about who's who's killed,

844
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,039
Who gets what role? What I mean in the sense

845
00:43:08,039 --> 00:43:10,559
of different studios and who gets what roles. We saw

846
00:43:10,599 --> 00:43:12,880
this with Harvey Weinstein. If you didn't screw the right person,

847
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,079
if you didn't do the right stuff, you know, you

848
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:16,639
didn't get the right roles right, and then we had

849
00:43:16,679 --> 00:43:19,840
all the meat too stuff. So that's casting couch. That's

850
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:25,400
well known I don't think I'm going beyond anything public

851
00:43:25,519 --> 00:43:28,639
in saying that Hollywood operates like a cult. In fact,

852
00:43:29,079 --> 00:43:32,000
how many people from Hollywood have made this same claim.

853
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,360
John Cusack has called Hollywood a giant prostitution slash wourhouse.

854
00:43:37,159 --> 00:43:40,760
Ben Affleck says Hollywood is full of cig agents and

855
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,599
operates like an intelligence cult. I mean, to me, it

856
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,039
just seems obviously, maybe just because I've been so so

857
00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:50,000
in messed in the research, that it's it's like secondhand

858
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,840
to me that it seems strange that somebody would have.

859
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 6: A problem with that.

860
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,039
Speaker 7: But I feel like you're saying you're saying there's feel

861
00:43:56,039 --> 00:43:58,039
like you're saying there's no over You're saying there's no

862
00:43:58,079 --> 00:44:01,519
overwriting conspiracy, and I'm saying there is no but we

863
00:44:01,519 --> 00:44:01,920
don't have.

864
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:07,079
Speaker 6: To do Okay, Well, I'm still not in the precise critique.

865
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,639
Speaker 4: I'm saying you have come out with a precise or

866
00:44:11,199 --> 00:44:14,719
or a more precise conspiracy that your book seems to

867
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,360
claim to expose the I don't think the thesis of

868
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,320
the book is at all well stated in the title.

869
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,559
In fact, I would say esoteric Hollywood then follows with basically,

870
00:44:24,599 --> 00:44:27,280
here's all of the reasons why esoteric hollywould exist. Once

871
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,559
you already accept that it exists, here's all of the

872
00:44:29,559 --> 00:44:30,639
things you see from it.

873
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,639
Speaker 6: So I mean the book that's not true. No, I

874
00:44:34,639 --> 00:44:39,440
mean okay, But but I think you're okay.

875
00:44:39,639 --> 00:44:42,519
Speaker 7: Maybe this is a difference in epistemology because you seem

876
00:44:42,599 --> 00:44:47,320
to think that there's a way to enter into investigations

877
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,960
with neutrality, and I don't believe that there's such a

878
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,679
thing as neutrality, Like there's no way to investigate a

879
00:44:52,679 --> 00:44:56,599
thing from a purely neutral stance and to determine oh well,

880
00:44:56,639 --> 00:44:57,079
I have.

881
00:44:57,079 --> 00:44:58,679
Speaker 6: No prior experience of this thing.

882
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 7: Let me then look at it, size it up, smell it,

883
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,559
and through the sense data, I can make my final declaration.

884
00:45:05,039 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 6: As to the truth or falsity of this thing.

885
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 7: Now I'm not against empirical data, but that's a very

886
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:15,000
naive approach to epistemology or how we learn and study things.

887
00:45:15,039 --> 00:45:19,559
So again, when I started this track, I did not

888
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,800
believe that there was a significant amount of overwriting conspiracy

889
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,840
in Hollywood, or that there were powerful cults in Hollywood.

890
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,800
That was a later conclusion that I came to after

891
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,559
a lot of years of reading on the subject. So

892
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,199
I didn't come into it with that. By the way,

893
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,840
the book's thesis is just simply that film and that

894
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,559
art form shares a lot of similarities to ritual. That's

895
00:45:43,599 --> 00:45:45,880
the very first chapter in the book is film as Ritual.

896
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,760
So other artists have made that same comparison. The surrealists

897
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:55,920
believe that their artworks role displayed a kind of ritual presentation.

898
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:01,159
Many directors have compared their works to rich So I

899
00:46:01,159 --> 00:46:03,239
don't even think that in itself, just from a comparative

900
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,119
religion stance, should should even be that that outlandish. It

901
00:46:06,559 --> 00:46:08,639
does strike people a little strange, but that's kind of

902
00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:10,920
what I wanted to do. And you're right that the

903
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,159
book doesn't have necessarily a single thesis. That's because it's

904
00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:17,039
a collection of essays, so a collection of.

905
00:46:17,039 --> 00:46:23,599
Speaker 4: Essays, and I understand that it just it seems to

906
00:46:23,639 --> 00:46:28,280
me I'm not representing the idea that it again, because

907
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,639
I already said at the very beginning that it doesn't

908
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:32,320
name names, it doesn't follow the money.

909
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,519
Speaker 3: But as far as your point about.

910
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 6: Remaining, I do name names, so I'm not sure.

911
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 4: Sure, yeah, you do specifically which directors were doing what

912
00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:48,159
or which movie creators are making for Hollywood and NASA.

913
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:49,639
Speaker 3: There are names definitely in the book.

914
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 4: What I'm talking about is there is no While it

915
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,679
implies this grander conspiracy, it doesn't tie all the conspiracy

916
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,400
together with a bow, which I don't think you're claiming,

917
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,519
and I'm not trying to represent what you did. You

918
00:46:58,599 --> 00:47:02,880
then made the point about neutral remaining neutral, and while

919
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,320
I agree that it is pretty difficult to approach anything

920
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,719
without bias, it feels like that was an admission on

921
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,679
your source or on your end, that this book is

922
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,280
written toward yourself and not toward an audience, because it

923
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,280
doesn't do a good job of establishing for the audience.

924
00:47:20,599 --> 00:47:23,719
It literally just kind of to me, seems like you're saying,

925
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,599
presume all of this research I did, because man, look

926
00:47:26,639 --> 00:47:29,639
at the list of things I've done all resulted in this,

927
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,239
and as long as you start here, everything that follows

928
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:32,840
will be obvious.

929
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 3: We're tying back into confirmation bias. Again. I'm also not

930
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,519
saying that there aren't obvious symbols in these movies, but

931
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,920
there are lots of stretches made.

932
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,119
Speaker 7: Okay, well, I mean made. You've made a lot of

933
00:47:45,119 --> 00:47:49,280
these claims, which is fine. I'm open to criticism, but again,

934
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,800
I wasn't conceding that the book was written from my

935
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,400
own perspective. I was saying that I think that's a

936
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,360
fact about human nature and experience across the board. I

937
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,000
think everybody's in the same boat about there being no

938
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:06,159
neutrality strictly speaking, so everybody by your by your definition,

939
00:48:06,199 --> 00:48:09,039
anyone who writes a paper could then be or or

940
00:48:09,639 --> 00:48:11,679
tries to make it, or tries to make a persuasive

941
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,440
argument for their case, would there be therefore therefore be

942
00:48:15,519 --> 00:48:18,079
committing confirmation bias. And I think this is just simply

943
00:48:18,119 --> 00:48:18,599
a misuse.

944
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 4: And I wouldn't say that represents it completely, but certainly

945
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,000
anybody who relies on that, as well as other fallacies.

946
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,239
For example, in the intro of your book, however, as

947
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,760
I think you will find the popularity of my film

948
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:32,719
analysis will lend some credence to the fact that I

949
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:33,559
am onto something.

950
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 3: Now we've got a new fallacy regarding popularity.

951
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 4: So I would say, with that and the other part

952
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,920
of the intro that included the and I can find

953
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:43,519
for you, because I've highlighted.

954
00:48:43,119 --> 00:48:44,639
Speaker 3: Much of this book, if you'd like, I can find

955
00:48:44,679 --> 00:48:46,519
for the.

956
00:48:47,559 --> 00:48:51,639
Speaker 6: Yeah, first of all, there's different ways to write different things.

957
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 7: Right, So if I could take a Dostyevsky novel and

958
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,639
I could pick it apart for finding fallacies in different

959
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,320
characters or even trying to find a foul.

960
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,679
Speaker 6: Okay, so this is not strictly speaking a book.

961
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:07,599
Speaker 7: Yes, it is written to expose, but there's different types

962
00:49:07,639 --> 00:49:10,480
of writing, right, Prose, you're not going to investigate prose.

963
00:49:10,519 --> 00:49:12,079
And I use a lot of prose and a lot

964
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:15,679
of satire, a lot of sardonic type wit and goofiness

965
00:49:16,159 --> 00:49:18,280
in the text on purpose. And so I think to

966
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,320
try to dissect that as if that was fallacy is

967
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,239
a little bit absurd, because that's not.

968
00:49:23,519 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 3: No.

969
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:28,519
Speaker 4: I'm sorry if you're trying to call the fact sentence

970
00:49:28,679 --> 00:49:32,760
of satirical, I mean this is you literally setting up

971
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,280
the book. Your next sentence is actually where the confromise

972
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,119
nation bias comes in. Thus the reader will travel with

973
00:49:38,199 --> 00:49:41,679
me on a mental journey into the psychosphere, understand the

974
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,480
semiotic system I use, and in turn be able to

975
00:49:44,519 --> 00:49:47,199
interpret the film in a deeper esoteric sense of their own.

976
00:49:47,519 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 6: You're setting You're saying it's.

977
00:49:49,559 --> 00:49:53,519
Speaker 7: A fallacy because I said my book, my analyzes are popular,

978
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:59,119
and it's onto something. So you're going at a prosaic, popular,

979
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:00,119
gave it, creed.

980
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,159
Speaker 2: Each other, each other, finish ahead.

981
00:50:03,199 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I'm not.

982
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 7: When you write an introduction to a book, you're not

983
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:11,559
always making an argument.

984
00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:12,599
Speaker 6: Do you not understand that?

985
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 4: Yes, I understand, I understand you setting yourself up for again,

986
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:23,599
it's the intro to the book asks the reader to

987
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:28,599
skip a lot and skip straight forward to here's my analysis. Now,

988
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:30,679
I'm sorry if you guys are getting win stuff, but

989
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,840
my outside just went like crazy. But here's here's where

990
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,639
I'm at. Now I need you to start where I've

991
00:50:37,679 --> 00:50:41,400
already gone. You don't even make a quicker or a

992
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,119
quick case for here's this, here's you've done more so

993
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:44,679
in this.

994
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,760
Speaker 7: Actually, actually I include I include a film scholar at

995
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,880
the very beginning, quoting Orson well so that the first

996
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,760
quote is about Orson Wells talking about genre and the

997
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,280
way genre affects our perception. And then I go into

998
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,840
talking about uh, semiotics.

999
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 6: And and and and Yeah.

1000
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 7: I don't have no problem admitting that I have presubpositions

1001
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,920
and I come to the table with my own biases.

1002
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:09,920
But again, I think we all do that. And I

1003
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,559
mean again, you could your your approach could have pick

1004
00:51:12,559 --> 00:51:15,559
apart any work of literature. And this is I grant

1005
00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:18,599
you that my book is a little bizarre because it's

1006
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,320
also and that's that's part of the appeal, by the way,

1007
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,239
is that it's not just academic, it's not just written

1008
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,159
in a popular level. It's it's a kind of a

1009
00:51:26,199 --> 00:51:29,400
weird mix of all these things. And I intentionally wanted

1010
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,000
it to be that way. So you're going to find,

1011
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,599
i'm sure, a lot of fallacies. But it's also not

1012
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:38,280
a a strict logical book. It's not a book about

1013
00:51:38,599 --> 00:51:41,679
logical argumentation. It's a book about the arts. And I

1014
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:43,559
mean the idea that you could apply that kind of

1015
00:51:43,559 --> 00:51:47,000
approach to aesthetics and the arts is a little a

1016
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:47,719
little strained.

1017
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 4: I would say, Yeah, perhaps, I think I think you're

1018
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,719
you're saying that it does rely on a lot of presuppositions,

1019
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,480
so sort of makes my point for me, which is

1020
00:51:59,519 --> 00:52:02,480
that those pre but I will continue that point that

1021
00:52:02,519 --> 00:52:06,719
those presuppositions aren't justified well enough by your one quote

1022
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:08,559
that you were talking about at the very beginning, which

1023
00:52:08,639 --> 00:52:11,440
precedes it by a few paragraphs, to ask the reader

1024
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,679
to make those presuppositions themselves.

1025
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 3: And because it just sort of goes on.

1026
00:52:16,119 --> 00:52:17,519
Speaker 4: I think there are a lot of people who will

1027
00:52:17,559 --> 00:52:20,320
read this book and naturally make those presuppositions.

1028
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 3: In fact, I think this book at times makes.

1029
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,199
Speaker 6: It Neil Degrass Tyson.

1030
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,199
Speaker 7: This sounds like Neil Degrass Twicon trying to dissect interstellar

1031
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,480
I mean this that's not the context of what this is.

1032
00:52:30,519 --> 00:52:33,599
This is not a book that's just about me trying

1033
00:52:33,639 --> 00:52:35,920
to prove my case to you, as if it was

1034
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,199
a you know, a law setting with the judge up there,

1035
00:52:39,199 --> 00:52:40,679
and can I prove my case to you?

1036
00:52:41,039 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 6: I mean a lot of people are not going to.

1037
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 4: Book means to expose, doesn't mean to prove.

1038
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 7: Are you Are you aware that there's different ways to

1039
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,480
go about exposing things. I mean, not everything has to

1040
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,079
be done in a a legal court case situation. And

1041
00:52:57,119 --> 00:52:59,159
by the way, here's a little, a little, a little

1042
00:52:59,159 --> 00:53:00,719
advice for you. If if you want to have a

1043
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,199
book one day, your editor is going to tell you

1044
00:53:03,519 --> 00:53:05,719
this needs to be written. I'm not being a dick.

1045
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:07,840
I'm just saying, like what you'll go through. Your editor

1046
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,039
will say, you've got to write this in a way

1047
00:53:10,199 --> 00:53:12,760
that is going to be fun to read, and people

1048
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:14,599
are going to get a kick out of it. You

1049
00:53:14,639 --> 00:53:17,360
can't and be persuasive. You can't just write it as

1050
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,199
if it were, you know, a list.

1051
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 6: Of science facts or something like that. It's not going

1052
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:23,079
to work.

1053
00:53:23,199 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 4: I wonder if you would encourage me to this future editor,

1054
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,079
if I write this future book, to not write a

1055
00:53:29,119 --> 00:53:32,320
book based on so many large presuppositions that I won't

1056
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,760
have in common with many of my readers, but ask them.

1057
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 6: You haven't specified.

1058
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 7: I mean, I'm sitting here with like fifty books around

1059
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,679
me that that basically back up any claim that I've made,

1060
00:53:43,599 --> 00:53:46,079
and you've not specifically told me anywhere that I'm wrong.

1061
00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:48,480
You basically just said that I've had presubpositions. But we

1062
00:53:48,519 --> 00:53:49,559
all have presubositions.

1063
00:53:49,599 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 6: So what? So where am I from?

1064
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:59,239
Speaker 1: I haven't read just a second Steve, I think, did

1065
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,559
you want to kind of tag tag into what? Because

1066
00:54:03,599 --> 00:54:05,079
I think we're kind of getting to the point where

1067
00:54:05,079 --> 00:54:08,159
we're going just you know, kind of going to servers

1068
00:54:08,159 --> 00:54:10,519
a little bit with the back and forth. Steve has

1069
00:54:10,639 --> 00:54:12,400
kind of a thing to tag onto that I think,

1070
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,440
to Jimmy's point, I believe, well.

1071
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,159
Speaker 5: Yes, sort of. I mean, I mean, I'm actually kind

1072
00:54:19,159 --> 00:54:21,599
of the way Jay's describing it, And again I have

1073
00:54:21,679 --> 00:54:23,760
not read anything by you, Jay, I don't know your book.

1074
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,320
For the way you're describing things, I'm actually siding with

1075
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,519
you at the moment on how you did an introduction

1076
00:54:29,559 --> 00:54:31,880
to your book. I don't see an issue about how

1077
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,679
you formulated the structure of what was going to be

1078
00:54:34,679 --> 00:54:36,400
introduced in the book, because you don't make an argument

1079
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,960
in a an introduction of book. I do agree with

1080
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,840
you that obviously we all have our presuppositions. Now, I

1081
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:44,880
think the question though, and again I'm not trying to

1082
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,119
ask this from Jimmy, but I'm trying to get the

1083
00:54:48,199 --> 00:54:51,559
life feed you know, questions posed to you, But do

1084
00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:55,000
you think that did you have some presuppositions prior to

1085
00:54:55,039 --> 00:54:59,960
the investigation of these symbols, thinking that there was something

1086
00:55:00,119 --> 00:55:01,960
to this, which I think it's fair. I mean, I

1087
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:03,239
don't think is anything wrong with that, and then try

1088
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,119
to find evidence for against it because these are not

1089
00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:08,000
scientific claims. Usually scientific claims we try to find evidence

1090
00:55:08,039 --> 00:55:11,039
to falsify your hypothesis. We grant that this is not

1091
00:55:11,159 --> 00:55:13,920
that kind of case. So would you expand about that

1092
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,639
more about how europistemlogical approach was where you do have

1093
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,440
these presuppositions, but you do it in what kind of

1094
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,320
systematic way to justify those beliefs.

1095
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, this is a book written about the arts. It's

1096
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,239
basically a culture commentary that touches on a lot of

1097
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,400
different genres. So, like in the first chapter and then

1098
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:37,280
the first sections, we're dealing with specific Kubrick films.

1099
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:38,760
Speaker 6: And I pick Kubrick just because he's so.

1100
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,039
Speaker 7: Prominent and relevant, and he does, you know, pretty obviously

1101
00:55:42,079 --> 00:55:44,039
pack his films full of a lot of symbolism. So

1102
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:48,840
when I investigate Eyes White Shut, I look at Kubrick's experience,

1103
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,360
what we know about Kubrick, things he talked about in interviews.

1104
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:55,320
I look at the way that he places the camera.

1105
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,159
I look at the colors that are used. I look

1106
00:55:57,199 --> 00:56:01,199
at the influences that probably went into to why he

1107
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,320
chose traum Novella, which is a specific, you know, occult

1108
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:11,079
influenced novel to put into a surrealist Jungian dream state film.

1109
00:56:11,159 --> 00:56:13,280
That's what the film was about, It's the dream state.

1110
00:56:13,679 --> 00:56:19,360
So it's basically an essay on interpretation or semiotics. And

1111
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,599
so if you take not trying to be arrogant or condescending,

1112
00:56:23,639 --> 00:56:26,360
I'm just saying if you go, like if you take

1113
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,440
a class in aesthetics, Like if you do a philosophy degree,

1114
00:56:29,519 --> 00:56:33,119
you'll have probably aesthetics. You'll have a class on art interpretation.

1115
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,639
You'll try to do interpretation. You'll do what's doing in

1116
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:38,840
literature was called a close reading. So if you have

1117
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,880
a class on Dustiefki or if you have a class

1118
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:43,920
on Shakespeare, you'll do a close reading of the text

1119
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,760
where you try to argue for the interpretation of the

1120
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:49,840
symbols that you see there. And yes, I will admit

1121
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:53,079
that symbols oftentimes are polyvalent, which means they can have

1122
00:56:53,159 --> 00:56:57,239
multiple meanings based on wider contexts. But that's precisely because

1123
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,000
of the philosophical position I have about signs and symbols

1124
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,239
that I don't believe they operate outside of a context.

1125
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:07,280
I believe there they're context situated strictly speaking, and so

1126
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:12,440
really art interpretation for me, aesthetics for me is impossible

1127
00:57:12,519 --> 00:57:16,280
to divorce from the holistic worldview or paradigm that.

1128
00:57:16,239 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 6: I come from.

1129
00:57:17,119 --> 00:57:19,679
Speaker 7: And that's why when I write about eyes white shut,

1130
00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:23,000
I'm tying it into you know, the the Tom Cruise

1131
00:57:23,039 --> 00:57:26,719
connections to scientology. You do have the parent you know,

1132
00:57:27,159 --> 00:57:30,519
reference to the sea, the sea or soldier there. In

1133
00:57:31,519 --> 00:57:35,119
Nicole Kidman's sex Dream, you know, there's references to the

1134
00:57:35,159 --> 00:57:37,440
Garden of Eden in her sex dream. We have the

1135
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:41,079
orgy with obviously Croleian overtones. So I try to make

1136
00:57:41,119 --> 00:57:43,679
the case that that's what's going on in this film,

1137
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,079
And I look at a lot of comparative religion scholars

1138
00:57:46,079 --> 00:57:49,679
who will say this symbol tends to mean this, and

1139
00:57:49,719 --> 00:57:52,440
I'll say, does that fit this context? Well, it does

1140
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,000
look like there's sorry, it does look like there's a

1141
00:57:55,119 --> 00:57:59,239
kind of goddess symbolism going on here. It does look like,

1142
00:57:59,719 --> 00:58:02,719
you know, when she says I want to give myself

1143
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:06,079
as a ransom for Tom to save his life, that

1144
00:58:06,119 --> 00:58:08,920
the cult actually operates like an intelligence agency because they're

1145
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:12,079
able to surveil him and so forth. So basically, again,

1146
00:58:12,119 --> 00:58:16,280
I'm looking at the totality of Kubrick's films, and one

1147
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:21,280
prominent theme is sex trafficking and sex abuse, and I'm

1148
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:22,599
saying that's here in this film too.

1149
00:58:22,679 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 6: So is Kubert trying to tell us something?

1150
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 7: I think so, I don't think that's much of a stretch,

1151
00:58:27,039 --> 00:58:29,400
especially given all of the news that's coming out about

1152
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,519
Hollywood in the last several decades that this has been

1153
00:58:31,559 --> 00:58:32,960
a real problem in Hollywood.

1154
00:58:34,159 --> 00:58:36,519
Speaker 4: So did your book mean to claim that it is

1155
00:58:36,559 --> 00:58:39,760
exposing that and it is the one exposing it, because

1156
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,760
it sounds like we're My main disagreement with you this

1157
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,599
is getting lost is how it's being treated like it's

1158
00:58:45,639 --> 00:58:48,639
exposing something new and then and at times that seems

1159
00:58:48,639 --> 00:58:50,079
to be the case, and then at times it seems

1160
00:58:50,119 --> 00:58:53,599
to be. Really I'm just summarizing the fifty books behind me.

1161
00:58:54,079 --> 00:58:57,719
So where is it landing on the exposing a new truth?

1162
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 7: I mean?

1163
00:58:58,079 --> 00:59:00,199
Speaker 3: Or is it just the summary of other exs this?

1164
00:59:01,079 --> 00:59:04,599
Speaker 7: No, I mean, I think I guess the fact that

1165
00:59:04,639 --> 00:59:07,239
the book was successful and has you know, over one

1166
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,559
hundred plus five star reviews, means that it's not a

1167
00:59:09,559 --> 00:59:12,119
piece of ship book and it's not just me regurgitating

1168
00:59:12,119 --> 00:59:13,079
what the other people said.

1169
00:59:13,079 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 6: I mean.

1170
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,519
Speaker 7: To be a successful writer and to have the book

1171
00:59:16,519 --> 00:59:18,760
made into a movie, excuse me, into the TV show,

1172
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:20,880
I think it requires a little bit of skill. It's

1173
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:22,960
not just regurgitating. So that's a little bit of a

1174
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:27,559
low blow, but that's okay. I can take it just

1175
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,440
given I just answered your question by saying that the

1176
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,519
book is a bunch of different kinds of things. So

1177
00:59:33,679 --> 00:59:36,599
you keep asking, I'm getting is it an expose? And

1178
00:59:36,679 --> 00:59:39,480
I'm saying there's an element of expose, So no, it's not.

1179
00:59:39,559 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 4: To you understand that it seems to represent itself with

1180
00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:46,639
a title like Esoteric Hollywood, as though that is what

1181
00:59:46,679 --> 00:59:49,440
it is, and that that is what Most people, by

1182
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:50,559
the way, are aware that.

1183
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,599
Speaker 7: You can be an interesting Are you aware that you

1184
00:59:53,599 --> 00:59:56,480
can't the cover and then to and then to sell

1185
00:59:56,519 --> 00:59:58,199
books that helps to have sex in the title.

1186
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:01,559
Speaker 3: Yes, I agree, is that I actually the sex quire?

1187
01:00:01,719 --> 01:00:03,119
Speaker 6: But that part's true.

1188
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,559
Speaker 3: Let's go beyond the cover that the introduction seems to imply.

1189
01:00:06,679 --> 01:00:08,599
Speaker 4: I agree that it has that it's going to be

1190
01:00:08,639 --> 01:00:12,239
a book of a great expose A do you acknowledge

1191
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,800
that that is I think commonly among the people who

1192
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,039
are going to buy your book thinking they are going

1193
01:00:18,079 --> 01:00:21,239
in about to read about the exposure of something that

1194
01:00:21,639 --> 01:00:25,920
wasn't presently obvious, and that that actually wasn't the intention

1195
01:00:26,039 --> 01:00:28,119
of the book, or that it's the intention of the

1196
01:00:28,119 --> 01:00:29,440
book was many many things.

1197
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 3: It sounds like, well, everybody, do you feel you've answered

1198
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:33,880
that question?

1199
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:36,599
Speaker 6: Everybody has the title.

1200
01:00:38,599 --> 01:00:40,159
Speaker 5: I think we're kind of going back and forth on

1201
01:00:40,159 --> 01:00:41,760
this a little bit. Jay, let me try to rephrase

1202
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:43,159
this a little bit. How much of your book do

1203
01:00:43,199 --> 01:00:44,920
you think is speculative and how much do you think

1204
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:49,360
is actually factual? As far as your conclusion that we

1205
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,239
all think we all agree to symbolism in Hollywood, I

1206
01:00:52,239 --> 01:00:54,119
don't think that's even a controversial thing, and then it

1207
01:00:54,119 --> 01:00:55,719
can all agreed book I.

1208
01:00:55,719 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 3: Disagree with book.

1209
01:00:57,239 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, but that's a great question.

1210
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 7: I would say again again, I mean, I try to

1211
01:01:02,559 --> 01:01:04,280
any of the times that I make a claim that

1212
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,639
I think is substantiated, there's a footnote. So again, there's

1213
01:01:07,639 --> 01:01:13,239
three hundred and sixty three footnotes throughout the book. And yeah, again,

1214
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,239
in terms of interpreting symbols, they're polly valent. So there's

1215
01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:18,400
always going to be an area of fuzziness when it

1216
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:20,360
comes to exactly what it means, because, for.

1217
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,679
Speaker 6: Example, I don't always know Kubrick's intention.

1218
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 7: I don't know the set director's intention, I don't know

1219
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:25,960
the cinematographer's intention.

1220
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,239
Speaker 6: And again, I mean.

1221
01:01:30,239 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 7: I wouldn't be in a documentary with you know, Shan

1222
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,880
Stone and Oliver Stone if there wasn't something to it.

1223
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,000
I mean, they read the book, it resonated within, and

1224
01:01:38,039 --> 01:01:40,559
I'm not making an appeal to authority that they're but

1225
01:01:40,599 --> 01:01:42,599
I'm saying I've talked to a lot of people who

1226
01:01:42,639 --> 01:01:45,760
are in Hollywood, so it's not just me speculating. It's

1227
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:49,880
also people who who are Hollywood insiders and famous in

1228
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:51,920
Hollywood have read the book and liked the book quite

1229
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,719
a bit. So I think that speaks to its credibility,

1230
01:01:54,719 --> 01:01:56,239
which it wouldn't have if it was just like a

1231
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:59,039
tabloid rag or something something like that. So I would

1232
01:01:59,079 --> 01:02:03,320
say probably thirty percent of the book is speculative, and

1233
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:07,199
probably seventy percent of the book is pretty solidly sourced.

1234
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 2: How is Oliver Stone in real life?

1235
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 6: I'm just curious. I haven't spent a lot of time

1236
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:13,599
with him.

1237
01:02:13,599 --> 01:02:15,719
Speaker 7: I've spent a good bit of time with Shanstone, and

1238
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,519
you know, I was in that documentary with Oliver. But

1239
01:02:19,519 --> 01:02:21,760
I think Oliver's a smart, smart guy. I think he's

1240
01:02:23,199 --> 01:02:25,800
I don't agree with all of his political opinions, but

1241
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:29,159
you know, I think he makes really good films at

1242
01:02:29,159 --> 01:02:31,079
times that have been pretty conspiratorial.

1243
01:02:31,079 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 6: That's one reason I like him is.

1244
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 7: That he's not afraid to delve into Hollywood conspiracy and

1245
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:39,320
history conspiracy and actually one of the things that prompted

1246
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:41,280
the book was I took a college course.

1247
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 6: One of my film classes was.

1248
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 7: Hollywood history and the point of the class was to

1249
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:51,199
compare historical events as best we can trace them with

1250
01:02:51,679 --> 01:02:54,239
the way Hollywood represented them.

1251
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:55,679
Speaker 6: And there was a fascinating.

1252
01:02:55,199 --> 01:02:59,079
Speaker 7: Class, and quite obviously a lot of those were Stone films.

1253
01:02:59,079 --> 01:03:01,239
So that was kind of what produced me to the

1254
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,599
real Oliver Stone canon of films. And I think he's

1255
01:03:04,639 --> 01:03:08,400
pretty phenomenal in that regard. But you know, this is

1256
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,519
a working premise that Stone has, so you know this

1257
01:03:10,719 --> 01:03:13,639
wasn't all just my idea. You know, he gives a

1258
01:03:13,679 --> 01:03:15,599
lot of interviews where he talks about the same kind

1259
01:03:15,599 --> 01:03:18,199
of stuff, very critical of American foreign policy.

1260
01:03:18,239 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 6: That was the point of a lot of the war films.

1261
01:03:20,519 --> 01:03:24,079
Speaker 7: But but no, I spent more more time hanging out

1262
01:03:24,119 --> 01:03:26,320
with Sean Stone than.

1263
01:03:25,599 --> 01:03:31,679
Speaker 5: Oliver brought something up. I love he's very good, no

1264
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:34,079
question about it. But you brought something up earlier. Maybe

1265
01:03:34,079 --> 01:03:35,920
we can dive into a little but you had actually

1266
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,679
mentioned something about these symbols being from a hermetic approach.

1267
01:03:39,719 --> 01:03:42,079
Why do you think these symbols are out there from

1268
01:03:42,079 --> 01:03:45,639
a her medical approach? To what to what consequence, What

1269
01:03:45,719 --> 01:03:48,400
is the goal of these symbols existing for that reason

1270
01:03:49,039 --> 01:03:50,000
in these films?

1271
01:03:50,639 --> 01:03:53,159
Speaker 7: Right, That's another thing I would say is determined by context.

1272
01:03:53,599 --> 01:03:57,800
So sometimes there's directors who are pretty self consciously interested

1273
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:00,800
in her meticism, and they're open about it they put

1274
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:03,519
in their films. I mean, Darren Aronofsky, I've done a

1275
01:04:03,519 --> 01:04:05,280
bunch of analysis. I don't think any of his analysis

1276
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:08,360
made it into the first book. But you know, Aeronofsky

1277
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:10,960
is pretty consciously influenced by Cobbolism.

1278
01:04:12,159 --> 01:04:14,639
Speaker 6: You know, he talks about that. It's very clear, I would.

1279
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 7: Say in most of his movies, especially something like The Fountain,

1280
01:04:21,039 --> 01:04:23,880
I think, or his version of Noah, which was influenced

1281
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,079
by cabalistic tradition about Noah.

1282
01:04:27,119 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 6: A lot of other directors will talk about it.

1283
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:29,519
Speaker 3: You know.

1284
01:04:29,599 --> 01:04:31,719
Speaker 7: Kubrick I think, has a lot of esoteric symbolism in

1285
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:35,000
his films. There's a quote by Kubert where he talks

1286
01:04:35,039 --> 01:04:37,599
about it, and he's a little ambiguous as always to

1287
01:04:37,679 --> 01:04:39,599
keep that air of mystery as to what his real

1288
01:04:39,679 --> 01:04:44,960
views are on these things. But I would say, again,

1289
01:04:45,079 --> 01:04:48,199
the purpose of why you would use alchemical symbolism could

1290
01:04:48,239 --> 01:04:48,840
be manifold.

1291
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:52,199
Speaker 6: So a lot of people in Hollywood are part of Freemasonry.

1292
01:04:53,079 --> 01:04:58,719
Speaker 7: That's pretty easily verified, and Freemasonry has a pretty wide

1293
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,440
scope of symbolism. I view it as kind of another

1294
01:05:01,599 --> 01:05:03,880
version of again like intelligence agencies. If you look at

1295
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:08,880
the history of Freemasonry, it's really the British Empire's extension

1296
01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:15,000
of its spy network. There's a famous book, Jacobson, Builders

1297
01:05:15,039 --> 01:05:18,079
of Empire. It's a completely academic work, not conspiracy work,

1298
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:20,960
and her whole thing is the history of the British

1299
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:24,639
Empire's relationship to its free Masonic lodges, and she basically

1300
01:05:24,639 --> 01:05:26,519
says that the whole purpose was to have a spy

1301
01:05:26,639 --> 01:05:30,239
network throughout the Empire. And again that's kind of again

1302
01:05:31,119 --> 01:05:33,840
pointing to the whole thesis of what we were arguing

1303
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,719
in the first hour, was that there's a close connection.

1304
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:37,599
Speaker 6: Between these two entities.

1305
01:05:38,119 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 7: And then you have in Hollywood again a lot of Freemasons.

1306
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:44,800
So when you watch movies that self consciously I would say,

1307
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:47,639
are Masonic, a lot of times there's Masonic symbolism quite

1308
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,360
you know, like self consciously, the square and compass.

1309
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:52,039
Speaker 6: This comes up in films quite a bit.

1310
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:55,039
Speaker 7: It's therefore a reason and it just depends on the

1311
01:05:55,039 --> 01:05:59,599
context as to what that reason is. But I would say,

1312
01:05:59,639 --> 01:06:03,119
like if you're watching a film like something, trying to

1313
01:06:03,159 --> 01:06:07,119
think of something that's specifically alchemical, I would say, I

1314
01:06:07,119 --> 01:06:10,559
would say two thousand and one is an alchemical evolutionary

1315
01:06:11,519 --> 01:06:14,840
notion of apotheosis that that man will evolve to being

1316
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,360
star child. I don't think that's too controversial.

1317
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 6: Arthur C. Clark, you know, says that's that's.

1318
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:23,920
Speaker 5: The normal way of viewing that movie, right right.

1319
01:06:24,559 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 7: So I would say in that sense, alchemy could be

1320
01:06:27,559 --> 01:06:31,920
read as the story of man's progress from ape to

1321
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,719
you know, divinity, and that can be read alchemic. That's

1322
01:06:35,719 --> 01:06:40,000
the great work of alchemy, according to some alchemists.

1323
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:44,639
Speaker 2: Jimmy, do you want to do Yeah?

1324
01:06:44,679 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, So is the purpose of presenting the idea of

1325
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:53,320
ape to man to robot figure in the future is

1326
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,920
that I don't understand what the correlation is with the

1327
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:01,119
motivation for the conspiracy. Are we talking about trying to

1328
01:07:01,679 --> 01:07:04,440
program people to believe in evolution, which definitely is something

1329
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:07,079
you reject later in your book. In fact, you call

1330
01:07:07,559 --> 01:07:11,639
Richard Dawkins and his cult silly, their classical notions of

1331
01:07:11,639 --> 01:07:15,760
God silly. You talk about how that's sort of reinforced

1332
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:18,800
by e T Is that what's going on in two

1333
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,079
thousand and one in your opinion too, just the reinforcement

1334
01:07:21,079 --> 01:07:24,119
of the idea that evolution is true, but by cult

1335
01:07:24,159 --> 01:07:26,239
means and not by actually rational means.

1336
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:31,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely, I think that. I argue, if I recall

1337
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:35,880
from that section, that people like H. G. Wells have

1338
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:39,719
had a lot more influence in determining people's perception of

1339
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:44,400
their origins than any sort of scientific diatribe.

1340
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:48,119
Speaker 6: And certainly scientific diet tribes can have an influence, but

1341
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:50,440
I would say somebody like HG.

1342
01:07:50,559 --> 01:07:53,119
Speaker 7: Wells has had a lot more influence than somebody like

1343
01:07:53,119 --> 01:07:56,760
even Dawkins, because ah C. Wells has just been It's

1344
01:07:57,159 --> 01:08:00,639
hard to believe the degree to which he influenced so

1345
01:08:00,679 --> 01:08:04,360
many storytellers, so much science fiction, so much of Hollywood.

1346
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:06,639
Speaker 6: Spielberg, right, you know.

1347
01:08:06,599 --> 01:08:10,239
Speaker 7: Spielberg makes movies dedicated like you know, he remakes War

1348
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:12,199
of the World. I mean, obviously, yes, it's a cash cow,

1349
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:14,800
but but a lot of these people are not just

1350
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:19,119
doing cash cow stuff. There's a famous white paper from

1351
01:08:19,159 --> 01:08:21,960
the Brookings Institute from the sixties. I can get the

1352
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:23,720
book if you want me to. I'll tell you what

1353
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:27,239
it is, but they'd studied the effects of promoting the

1354
01:08:27,279 --> 01:08:33,159
alien myth and how that would alter alter culture. So

1355
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:34,680
I mean, you're just off the top of my head,

1356
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:36,880
that's one white paper from Brookings Institute back in the

1357
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:40,039
sixties that studied the possibility the alien myth being used

1358
01:08:40,039 --> 01:08:43,279
to alter culture. And I actually have some interviews with

1359
01:08:43,399 --> 01:08:46,960
people from academic background on the history of aliens, which

1360
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:48,159
I don't believe in aliens at all.

1361
01:08:48,199 --> 01:08:50,039
Speaker 6: In fact, i'd always try to debunk.

1362
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:52,640
Speaker 4: Them that you made that point in the book as well,

1363
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,760
that you don't believe. I mean, it seems like you

1364
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:57,720
don't even believe in the possibility of life being anywhere

1365
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:01,079
on Earth. And you even I don't know how this

1366
01:09:01,159 --> 01:09:03,239
exactly ties into the book, because it did. It seemed

1367
01:09:03,279 --> 01:09:05,600
to be just sort of added in. But how absurd

1368
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:11,439
and silly people like Dawkins seem because they acknowledge, for example,

1369
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:15,600
the possibility without actually committing to it, of something like

1370
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:19,479
pan spermia being a reasonable explanation for the origin of

1371
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,520
life on our planet or perhaps other planets, though they

1372
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:25,800
would also continue that whatever the origin prior to that, where.

1373
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:27,640
Speaker 3: It came from, would also be of natural origin.

1374
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, and that's because I was making.

1375
01:09:31,199 --> 01:09:33,239
Speaker 7: The point I was making was that Dawkins is very

1376
01:09:33,239 --> 01:09:37,920
hostile to the Christian idea of theism generally speaking, but

1377
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:39,680
not hostile to the idea of aliens.

1378
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:41,640
Speaker 6: And I find that laughable personally.

1379
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:44,199
Speaker 4: But why do you find that laughable? One of those

1380
01:09:44,239 --> 01:09:45,840
has a natural explanation.

1381
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 7: The other thing I would say is that that section

1382
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:53,920
is not there out of place.

1383
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 6: It's not out of nowhere.

1384
01:09:55,039 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 7: That section is there because that chapter was dedicated to

1385
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:00,640
talking about the influence in ag Wells. And one of

1386
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:02,920
the things that hgu Wells influenced a lot of people

1387
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:08,079
towards was scientific naturalism, right, And I'm very critical of that.

1388
01:10:08,199 --> 01:10:11,840
I have countless debates and and essays critiquing naturalism. So

1389
01:10:12,239 --> 01:10:14,880
to answer what you just asked, No, I don't find

1390
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,319
that to be a more naturalistic explanation at all, because

1391
01:10:17,399 --> 01:10:20,079
naturalism itself, that I think is philosophically indefensible.

1392
01:10:21,239 --> 01:10:23,600
Speaker 5: We can we clarify, just for purposes of clarification, are

1393
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:26,680
you talking about ontological naturalism or mythological naturalism or both?

1394
01:10:28,199 --> 01:10:30,760
Speaker 7: I mean in the metaphysical sense that what exists is

1395
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:32,319
essentially material.

1396
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:36,199
Speaker 6: Reduction. So with that.

1397
01:10:36,279 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 4: Regard, then you would not see any distinction in how

1398
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:44,159
laughable the claim of panspermia is compared to the idea

1399
01:10:44,239 --> 01:10:48,159
that some chemical process on Earth without any sort of

1400
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:51,640
asteroid bringing it from somewhere else, resulted in a self

1401
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:54,159
replicating molecule that was able to adapt over time and

1402
01:10:54,199 --> 01:10:58,520
select it for the natural selection. Those are both laughable propositions,

1403
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,319
despite being used to almost be like, look at this

1404
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:06,159
absurd thing that he thinks could be possible, it's not

1405
01:11:06,399 --> 01:11:08,760
actually any more absurd than anything.

1406
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:11,199
Speaker 3: Richard Dawkins is saying.

1407
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:16,600
Speaker 6: No, I find them both laughable, okay.

1408
01:11:16,319 --> 01:11:18,279
Speaker 4: And so, and I'm not gonna I won't bring it

1409
01:11:18,319 --> 01:11:19,920
back to the point of the introduction, because it seems

1410
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,720
like everybody was tired of talking about now. Later on

1411
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:25,239
in the book, it again seems like the way you

1412
01:11:25,359 --> 01:11:29,760
choose to use language is to establish things without context

1413
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:32,439
so that they go straight to the conclusion of Because

1414
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:34,119
a lot of people, when they do hear pansperm me

1415
01:11:34,159 --> 01:11:36,960
at first, that does seem absurd and crazy. And I'm

1416
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:39,760
not going to fault you for not creating every distinction.

1417
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:43,560
But again, in this case, we're talking about presuppositions that

1418
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,640
nobody even knows which ones they're meant to have. Uh,

1419
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:53,079
And so I wonder if that, now now pointed out

1420
01:11:53,119 --> 01:11:55,600
in two places, is a recurring theme and if again

1421
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:59,119
I'm I really just think this book is literally confromisation

1422
01:11:59,239 --> 01:12:00,000
biased the novel.

1423
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:03,560
Speaker 3: That's That's what it comes down to it. Look at

1424
01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:04,000
it this way.

1425
01:12:04,119 --> 01:12:07,159
Speaker 4: Just these things as silly, and you get my book

1426
01:12:07,199 --> 01:12:08,560
completely and as long as.

1427
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:10,279
Speaker 3: You commit to I mean, it will be a super

1428
01:12:10,359 --> 01:12:11,279
dope weed trip.

1429
01:12:12,319 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 7: I have a whole bunch of essays that are written

1430
01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:18,880
from the vanta's point of arguing and confirming a case

1431
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:21,000
in a strict logical sense. So, for example, I have

1432
01:12:21,039 --> 01:12:25,119
a paper on uh, transcendental arguments and relationship to numbers. Okay,

1433
01:12:25,119 --> 01:12:28,760
I have papers on number theory, right that those are

1434
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:32,960
strictly logical arguments. They're not written in the style of

1435
01:12:34,199 --> 01:12:37,319
halfway satire tongue in cheek at times. I mean, if

1436
01:12:37,319 --> 01:12:40,000
you read the analysis I did of Labyrinth, or uh,

1437
01:12:40,079 --> 01:12:42,600
the analysis I did of Never Any Story, I mean,

1438
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:44,640
they're their tongue in cheek, they're funny, but they also

1439
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:48,560
bring in aspects of things that are that are real.

1440
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:51,039
Like Michael Inda, you know, he's he was a Crollian.

1441
01:12:51,079 --> 01:12:53,960
I think that influenced his his writing of The never

1442
01:12:54,039 --> 01:12:57,960
Ending Story. So again I think you're you're hung up

1443
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:00,800
on something that is not. This is not a book

1444
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:04,159
about apologetics. Yes, at times there will be things where

1445
01:13:04,159 --> 01:13:06,319
I will make equips and I'll say I think Richard

1446
01:13:06,359 --> 01:13:10,960
Dawkins is ridiculous, But again that's not You're trying to

1447
01:13:11,039 --> 01:13:13,720
find arguments when that wasn't the point of that essay.

1448
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:16,159
The part of the essay was to talk about propaganda,

1449
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,239
and yeah, how I use my own propaganda.

1450
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:23,239
Speaker 3: Sure, and it's largely spective and that part's fun. And

1451
01:13:23,279 --> 01:13:24,920
I don't. Again, I don't disagree there's this.

1452
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 6: I don't.

1453
01:13:26,079 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 4: I'm not agreeing that lots of the thaims you're making

1454
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:30,479
actually come to that end. But I do think that

1455
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:34,399
the symbols oftentimes were used purposefully.

1456
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:36,159
Speaker 3: However, not for the.

1457
01:13:36,039 --> 01:13:40,079
Speaker 4: Ends of of sort of brainwashing a society into being

1458
01:13:40,159 --> 01:13:44,520
either accepting or an unaware member of this cult.

1459
01:13:45,359 --> 01:13:46,359
Speaker 3: Because again, then.

1460
01:13:46,239 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 4: You you need only change which lends you look through

1461
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:51,600
to make the exact same case for literally anything.

1462
01:13:52,119 --> 01:13:53,319
Speaker 3: So the problems I have.

1463
01:13:53,279 --> 01:13:55,359
Speaker 6: Are these where let me make, let me make let

1464
01:13:55,399 --> 01:13:56,520
me put this to you in an easy way. Do

1465
01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:00,279
you know what ethnography is I'm not I'm not, you know.

1466
01:14:01,239 --> 01:14:03,119
Speaker 7: So if you read about the CIA, what they'll do

1467
01:14:03,239 --> 01:14:05,560
is that when they go into any culture to try

1468
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:07,840
to figure out what's going on to manipulate it, they'll

1469
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:09,239
do ethnographic studies.

1470
01:14:09,279 --> 01:14:11,359
Speaker 6: This is one of the major things that the CIA does.

1471
01:14:11,399 --> 01:14:14,199
Speaker 7: So Margaret Meade and people like that there classic is

1472
01:14:14,239 --> 01:14:16,239
that I'm not saying she was working with the CIA necessarily.

1473
01:14:16,239 --> 01:14:17,600
Speaker 6: I think she was part of other.

1474
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:22,359
Speaker 7: Philosophical groups, but a lot of anthropologists have actually been

1475
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:24,960
working for the CIA, and what they do is they

1476
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:29,119
produce studies that are called ethnographies, and what they'll do

1477
01:14:29,239 --> 01:14:32,760
is they'll figure out everything in a people group, down

1478
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:37,039
to their linguistic idiosyncrasies and how they'll pronounce things in

1479
01:14:37,079 --> 01:14:39,439
a strange way. And the reason that you do in

1480
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:43,399
ethnography to that extreme extent is to figure out how

1481
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:46,560
to engage with that culture and how to move.

1482
01:14:46,399 --> 01:14:47,960
Speaker 6: Them in the direction that you want.

1483
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 7: So again, this is something very easily verified on the

1484
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:54,680
part of the CIA, and I think if you think

1485
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:57,600
about their perspective of America and how they would like

1486
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:00,840
to sway American opinion, you know, with people with so

1487
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:03,279
many people in media that have come out of the CIA,

1488
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:08,000
Robert Behar, Anderson Cooper, well known people. There's I don't

1489
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:11,439
think it should be even contentious that they're going to

1490
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,239
look at film. They're going to look at those kinds

1491
01:15:14,279 --> 01:15:16,920
of things in the same way to try to sway opinion.

1492
01:15:17,079 --> 01:15:20,760
So when I'm making a case in the book specifically,

1493
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:22,640
it's that kind of a case. It's that kind of

1494
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,960
a thing to show clear collusion between two entities that

1495
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:28,399
we tend to think don't have any relationship together, like

1496
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:31,159
the Pentagon in Hollywood, you know, unless you were, you know,

1497
01:15:31,239 --> 01:15:33,079
raised in a military family or something like that.

1498
01:15:33,359 --> 01:15:36,720
Speaker 6: So so again I'm just not saying, let.

1499
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:39,119
Speaker 2: Me, let me interject, it's not as good where it stops.

1500
01:15:39,199 --> 01:15:43,680
Go ahead, because we're hitting close to the.

1501
01:15:45,159 --> 01:15:48,119
Speaker 1: Right the ninety minute mark, and I think this will

1502
01:15:48,159 --> 01:15:50,399
be a good time to there's some questions that the

1503
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:53,399
people in the live chat have. We're going to get

1504
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:57,159
to those real quick. I have a couple of my own.

1505
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:00,199
Mine are always the questions that I always come up

1506
01:16:00,239 --> 01:16:03,680
with our silly based though they're just having to be

1507
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:06,640
random questions that I think about as we go along.

1508
01:16:07,239 --> 01:16:09,520
Since you're a conspiracy theorist, person while we get while

1509
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:12,119
Steve gets the question from live chat. Guys, if you're

1510
01:16:12,159 --> 01:16:14,079
in the live chat, this is your last chance to

1511
01:16:14,079 --> 01:16:16,520
get your questions in. She goes over to Steve. He

1512
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:23,079
will ask them. But I wouldn't consider myself very conspiracy

1513
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:27,079
theory minded, but there is one that I buy into

1514
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:30,880
rather hard, and I want to know if you have

1515
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:33,600
any kind of dealings with it, since that's the case

1516
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:37,199
for you. But I am a hardcore proponent that there

1517
01:16:37,399 --> 01:16:41,640
is a cover up with the Sphinx and how old

1518
01:16:42,159 --> 01:16:44,800
it is and if there was a civilization prior to

1519
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:46,920
what they say in Egypt.

1520
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:53,199
Speaker 7: Kyle speak's conspiracy you're talking about, Like, Like, I've read

1521
01:16:53,199 --> 01:16:55,239
Graham Hancock's book on that and I thought there were

1522
01:16:55,239 --> 01:16:57,479
some interesting things, but I don't, Yeah, I don't, I

1523
01:16:57,479 --> 01:16:57,920
don't have.

1524
01:17:01,119 --> 01:17:04,079
Speaker 6: I don't have a committed opinion on that. I don't know.

1525
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:06,560
Speaker 3: I thought.

1526
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:11,640
Speaker 6: I thought the book was interesting, but.

1527
01:17:11,319 --> 01:17:13,720
Speaker 2: But yeah, it is interesting.

1528
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:14,199
Speaker 5: I don't.

1529
01:17:14,199 --> 01:17:16,039
Speaker 1: I don't go as far as as as he does,

1530
01:17:16,279 --> 01:17:19,079
like in terms of because he's got some out there,

1531
01:17:19,199 --> 01:17:21,880
but like beliefs in terms of the Annaki and the

1532
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:24,159
beer and all that.

1533
01:17:24,319 --> 01:17:27,079
Speaker 2: But it's just the Sphinx that I buy into I'm

1534
01:17:27,279 --> 01:17:28,560
I'm sold on the.

1535
01:17:30,239 --> 01:17:33,800
Speaker 7: I thought the map, the peri RAS map chapter was

1536
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:37,119
interesting and the lay lines are interesting, But you know,

1537
01:17:37,159 --> 01:17:39,479
I don't I don't have any committed opinion on that.

1538
01:17:40,399 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 1: It is odd how everything is on that one line

1539
01:17:43,319 --> 01:17:48,520
around the globe, how every mega structures.

1540
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:51,119
Speaker 2: Another question is, uh, do you think that.

1541
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:56,239
Speaker 1: The with with the way that the CIA and FBI

1542
01:17:56,279 --> 01:18:00,319
operated in Hollywood, do you think that had any kind

1543
01:18:00,319 --> 01:18:03,840
of effect on what happened with Marilyn Monroe? Would you

1544
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:07,159
say that kind of you know, did she get caught

1545
01:18:07,199 --> 01:18:09,439
up in something that she was taken out, you know,

1546
01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:12,159
because a lot of people say that she was killed

1547
01:18:12,319 --> 01:18:13,159
she did an overdose.

1548
01:18:14,119 --> 01:18:16,760
Speaker 7: I think that's very likely. I mean, she did work

1549
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:19,199
for the Department of Defense. That's verified. You can look

1550
01:18:19,279 --> 01:18:23,079
up her DoD badge that she used.

1551
01:18:23,399 --> 01:18:25,239
Speaker 6: She was a.

1552
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:30,000
Speaker 7: Frequent visitor to Laurel Canyon Studios, which, if you're familiar

1553
01:18:30,039 --> 01:18:31,479
with my book, I put that in there from Dave

1554
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:35,359
McGowan's book. So that was a secret Air Force studio,

1555
01:18:35,399 --> 01:18:39,199
by the way, which wasn't really known about until pretty recently.

1556
01:18:40,039 --> 01:18:42,560
That and I went and visited this place firsthand, by

1557
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:44,640
the way, So I have empirical evidence. I got a

1558
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:47,800
picture right out in front of it with my girlfriend.

1559
01:18:47,399 --> 01:18:50,119
Speaker 6: And I and that's now Jared Ledo's house. By the way.

1560
01:18:50,159 --> 01:18:54,319
Speaker 7: He owns the old Air Force studio in Hollywood, which

1561
01:18:54,359 --> 01:18:56,399
was actually the cutting edge studio of his time. They

1562
01:18:56,520 --> 01:19:00,000
produced the atomic bomb footage and everything. So Laurel Canyon

1563
01:19:00,279 --> 01:19:02,920
is a good thing to look at for older Air

1564
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:06,680
Force CI a collusion with Hollywood, but I would say

1565
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:08,880
it's very likely. I've read a couple of books on

1566
01:19:09,039 --> 01:19:12,560
the Marilyn Monroe situation, and I think that given she's

1567
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:15,920
with JFK and there's that tie in with the CIA

1568
01:19:16,039 --> 01:19:19,840
and the Mob and Sinatra, she wrote she claimed, you

1569
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:22,399
know that she was kind of under constant surveillance and

1570
01:19:23,159 --> 01:19:26,199
uh that that they were given her pills. I'm sure

1571
01:19:26,199 --> 01:19:28,159
she wanted pills. I'm not saying it was you know,

1572
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:30,920
I'm sure she was addicted to drugs. But I would

1573
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:33,399
say probably likely. Although you know, I don't claim to

1574
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:36,840
have like any definitive opinion on like, you know, murder

1575
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:37,760
conspiracies like that.

1576
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:39,680
Speaker 6: I think Britney Murphy was probably killed.

1577
01:19:41,039 --> 01:19:42,560
Speaker 4: Kyle, do you mind if I ask a couple now

1578
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:47,079
that we're on the committed or the conspiracy's topic, because

1579
01:19:47,359 --> 01:19:48,000
because you bought them.

1580
01:19:49,119 --> 01:19:51,600
Speaker 2: But sure, I just want to say that sounds like

1581
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:53,800
that that's such a jered thing to do.

1582
01:19:55,199 --> 01:20:00,000
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, it's a full house too. It's awesome.

1583
01:20:00,039 --> 01:20:00,159
Speaker 6: OK.

1584
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:03,359
Speaker 4: I'm curious if you have a committed opinion on You

1585
01:20:03,399 --> 01:20:05,399
brought it up, but you already said that that wasn't

1586
01:20:05,399 --> 01:20:07,560
a representation of any You weren't committing to anything on

1587
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:09,880
the moon landing, conspiracy or the studio. I want to

1588
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:12,560
know if you have a committed opinion on the moon

1589
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:15,319
landing and the use of the studio. But as you

1590
01:20:15,319 --> 01:20:17,920
do in the book, at least mention I'm pretty sure

1591
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:20,760
you say that some of the footage for sure was

1592
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:22,840
done from the studio. But if I'm wrong, correct me.

1593
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:25,359
Speaker 6: I don't mention any specific studio.

1594
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:29,000
Speaker 7: I say that I think it's likely that it could

1595
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:32,680
have been Lookout Mountain or something like that. But no,

1596
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:36,560
I tend to disagree. I tend to doubt the images

1597
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:40,560
and the photography that we've seen. I find Dave mcgawan's

1598
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:42,800
book Wagging the Moon Doggie to be the most convincing.

1599
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,359
I don't really go into the look at the angle

1600
01:20:45,399 --> 01:20:48,319
of the shadow on the flag, or rather, what Dave

1601
01:20:48,359 --> 01:20:50,760
does in his book is just source it from NASA's

1602
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:54,159
own claims over the years, claims of different astronauts over

1603
01:20:54,159 --> 01:20:56,800
the years. And yeah, I mean, I'm not a flat earther.

1604
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:59,640
I don't believe that satellites are fake, or space is fake,

1605
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:02,439
or any thing retarded like that have been. But but

1606
01:21:03,079 --> 01:21:05,600
I do doubt the the images that we've been shown.

1607
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:07,359
Speaker 6: Do you believe we.

1608
01:21:07,319 --> 01:21:10,079
Speaker 5: Ever even if it, have we ever been in the moon?

1609
01:21:10,159 --> 01:21:10,319
Speaker 6: Right?

1610
01:21:11,239 --> 01:21:12,079
Speaker 5: That would be the simple I.

1611
01:21:12,079 --> 01:21:14,640
Speaker 6: Have not seen I've not seen anything that that's convincing.

1612
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:15,039
Speaker 1: Uh.

1613
01:21:15,239 --> 01:21:18,720
Speaker 6: And I know that may sound out landish, but when.

1614
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:22,359
Speaker 7: You look at the the the possibility of you know,

1615
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:24,880
what is it two hundred and something thousand miles has

1616
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:26,279
been a while since I've looked at the moons that

1617
01:21:26,279 --> 01:21:29,399
you two hundred and forty two hundred thousand and then back.

1618
01:21:29,439 --> 01:21:30,760
Speaker 6: I mean, have you ever have you ever driven?

1619
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 5: Like?

1620
01:21:34,039 --> 01:21:35,960
Speaker 3: No, But I also haven't driven at the speed of

1621
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:36,560
a rocket.

1622
01:21:37,199 --> 01:21:41,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wasn't going that fast. Well, if if if

1623
01:21:41,279 --> 01:21:43,399
we do go back to the moon, yeah, planning, I

1624
01:21:43,439 --> 01:21:46,359
know that, But would it be devastating to your your

1625
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:49,359
pistological framework if, for example, the Chinese went there, and

1626
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:52,560
would you then say, oh, yeah, we've probably been there

1627
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:53,600
before or matter.

1628
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,520
Speaker 7: I'm just making my claim based on you know, what's

1629
01:21:56,560 --> 01:21:59,199
in Dave's book and and what I when I look

1630
01:21:59,199 --> 01:22:01,439
at those images and the idea of playing golf on

1631
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:03,720
the moon, I think that's other utterly preposterous. I mean,

1632
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:06,880
you have this life threatening situation, you have a life

1633
01:22:06,920 --> 01:22:09,439
threatening situation, and the and the I mean that's the

1634
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:14,399
that's most obvious to me. That's that's uh, that's cold

1635
01:22:14,439 --> 01:22:18,600
war propaganda. And I was in a tin can with

1636
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:22,640
my girlfriend driving five thousand miles and the idea that

1637
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:25,560
that that, uh, that you're going to be able to

1638
01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:29,000
make that that ride and where were the buggies by

1639
01:22:29,039 --> 01:22:32,119
the way, or the little moon buggies stashed on the

1640
01:22:32,439 --> 01:22:37,560
Apollo uh device, I would just say, I would.

1641
01:22:37,319 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 1: Just say, wait, guys, I think we need to I

1642
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:42,600
think we need to to table this because this this

1643
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:43,239
sounds like a.

1644
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:46,239
Speaker 2: I've been wanting to.

1645
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:53,760
Speaker 3: Always kills the fun.

1646
01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:56,640
Speaker 7: I'm just going to say one thing. I didn't really

1647
01:22:56,680 --> 01:22:59,920
have any commitment on this position. I believe aerospace is real.

1648
01:23:00,039 --> 01:23:04,119
I believe rockets are real. But I find I find

1649
01:23:04,199 --> 01:23:07,119
Dave's book, which you can get free pdf online Wagging

1650
01:23:07,119 --> 01:23:07,840
the Moon Doggie.

1651
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:09,359
Speaker 6: I find it to be pretty convincing.

1652
01:23:09,399 --> 01:23:13,000
Speaker 7: So if anybody's read that book and they're still defending it, uh,

1653
01:23:13,159 --> 01:23:15,439
I think the jokes on you.

1654
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:21,600
Speaker 4: So what about the debate that I've wanted to have

1655
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:24,439
eventually since we started the show.

1656
01:23:25,239 --> 01:23:27,720
Speaker 2: I can't never find anybody that's willing to, uh to.

1657
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:31,319
Speaker 1: Come on to defend the position that we didn't go

1658
01:23:31,359 --> 01:23:34,960
to the moon. So I don't know if you if

1659
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:36,880
you ever want to come back and do that, that

1660
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:39,600
would be excellent. But guys, if you're out there and you, uh,

1661
01:23:40,039 --> 01:23:41,720
you don't think it went to the moon, getting in

1662
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:44,760
contact with us because I would love to. The space

1663
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:47,319
debates are my favorite, Like I get all into those.

1664
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:51,800
Speaker 7: So maybe this is this is not something that that's

1665
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:52,760
that important to me.

1666
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:56,680
Speaker 5: Really, Yeah, I mean, I mean, yeah, I don't. I

1667
01:23:56,680 --> 01:23:58,039
don't think we should put him on the spot if

1668
01:23:58,039 --> 01:23:58,800
that's really not what.

1669
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 7: He but but yeah, I mean I could want I

1670
01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:05,359
can ponder it, and yeah, maybe down the road, Yeah.

1671
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:05,159
Speaker 3: I'd like to know.

1672
01:24:06,359 --> 01:24:08,119
Speaker 4: I'd like to know if you have an opinion on

1673
01:24:08,159 --> 01:24:09,800
the size of the universe and the idea that we

1674
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:13,760
are seeing stars that exceed millions of years to get

1675
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:14,720
the light to us.

1676
01:24:16,039 --> 01:24:17,359
Speaker 5: It's big, very big.

1677
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:19,439
Speaker 6: I don't. I don't.

1678
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:23,319
Speaker 7: I don't believe any anything now, anything associated with flat Earth.

1679
01:24:23,319 --> 01:24:24,760
If that's what you're asking, Do I think that their

1680
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:27,039
print picture the pin pricks in a.

1681
01:24:27,039 --> 01:24:28,760
Speaker 5: In a asking more young Earth?

1682
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:32,479
Speaker 3: You know he's asking, I'm actually this is creationism? Is

1683
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:35,119
the universe's science? Ponders it to be.

1684
01:24:37,359 --> 01:24:39,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, well I don't. I don't see that as out

1685
01:24:39,399 --> 01:24:41,680
of a chord with UH with creation personally.

1686
01:24:44,359 --> 01:24:46,560
Speaker 4: I guess the way we if you believe the universe

1687
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:51,439
originated at the moment of in Genesis, what would then

1688
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:54,119
be the explanation for and I don't know exactly the

1689
01:24:54,159 --> 01:24:57,119
age you believe, so I'll take a million years because

1690
01:24:57,159 --> 01:24:59,640
that certainly covers if it's only six thousand or ten thousand,

1691
01:25:00,319 --> 01:25:04,000
anything that's beyond a million years of For the amount

1692
01:25:04,039 --> 01:25:06,279
of time it takes light to travel, what would be

1693
01:25:06,279 --> 01:25:08,079
the explanation for that light having traveled over?

1694
01:25:08,159 --> 01:25:08,880
Speaker 6: That problem?

1695
01:25:09,279 --> 01:25:11,159
Speaker 7: The problem with that view is that it assumes that

1696
01:25:11,199 --> 01:25:13,439
you have a fixed point in space and that light

1697
01:25:14,079 --> 01:25:19,880
is traveling at a consistent rate over the over.

1698
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:25,319
Speaker 6: Basically, you have an assumption of consistency, and there's not a.

1699
01:25:25,279 --> 01:25:28,840
Speaker 7: Way to prove that the ratio or the rate of

1700
01:25:29,159 --> 01:25:33,159
light's travel has been the same throughout throughout all time.

1701
01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:36,600
So I think that's highly speculative as well. I think

1702
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:40,640
it's one of the weakest arguments for the idea of

1703
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:43,199
the expansion of the universe. So in other words, everything

1704
01:25:43,239 --> 01:25:45,199
has to be expanding in a certain direction, and it

1705
01:25:45,239 --> 01:25:47,399
assumes that there's a fixed point and there's not.

1706
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 6: There's not a fixed point in space.

1707
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:52,680
Speaker 4: I mean, it's met the burden of predictive power and

1708
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:56,359
being able to actually say, if the Big Bang happened,

1709
01:25:56,359 --> 01:26:00,359
for occurred, for example, we would find this stuff in

1710
01:26:00,399 --> 01:26:03,319
this place at this distance, as they did when they

1711
01:26:04,319 --> 01:26:06,199
measured the background radiation.

1712
01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:10,319
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean I don't see that as good.

1713
01:26:11,359 --> 01:26:13,840
Speaker 7: Well, I mean I've had college astronomy classes, and I

1714
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:16,800
know about how they measure, you know, background radiation, and

1715
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:19,600
I think a lot of those methods are actually flawed.

1716
01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:23,600
I don't find them to be very convinced. But that again,

1717
01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:25,479
that's a whole other debate. I'm not opposed. I'm not

1718
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:26,680
opposed to having that debate.

1719
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:30,199
Speaker 5: But yeah, Joe, I know I get you, and I

1720
01:26:30,199 --> 01:26:32,479
think that probably should be tabled for another time on

1721
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:34,880
those types of things. It's a kind of a whole

1722
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:36,520
off topic kind of thing. And I get that. So

1723
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:38,600
we do have we do have questions from the audience,

1724
01:26:39,399 --> 01:26:40,760
quite a few actions, but try to get as many

1725
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:42,159
as I can. But don't get you a question. Please

1726
01:26:42,159 --> 01:26:43,479
don't take a personally. But I did want to add

1727
01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:46,640
on your geenographic research. You know, that's that's something that's

1728
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:48,600
not just among the CI in those things. I mean

1729
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:51,079
businesses ethnographic research when they want to go overseas and

1730
01:26:51,079 --> 01:26:52,960
they want to build it in other places. So and

1731
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:54,880
and I can see why Hollywood want as well, because

1732
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:56,279
they want to know the demographic in the area that

1733
01:26:56,279 --> 01:26:58,600
they can be releasing a movie. So I think that's

1734
01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:00,399
pretty standard in industry that they do some kind of

1735
01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:04,920
ethnographic research. But anyways, so these kind of questions, let's

1736
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:07,000
see here, I like, I like a couple of these

1737
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:08,920
more than others. Ione to be reading those first. Sorry,

1738
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:11,760
but they say, ask Jay why somebody should actually care

1739
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:14,720
about hidden symbols and how they could reasonably influence people

1740
01:27:14,720 --> 01:27:16,439
that are not aware of their meaning. And that's a

1741
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:18,199
great question. Actually, If people are not aware what these

1742
01:27:18,239 --> 01:27:20,600
are cult symbols mean, how does it influence them in

1743
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:21,680
some way?

1744
01:27:22,319 --> 01:27:25,159
Speaker 7: Yeah, this gets into you know, different theories about human

1745
01:27:25,239 --> 01:27:28,479
psychology and how the brain works and how our mind

1746
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:30,359
you know, subconsciously picks things up.

1747
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:31,760
Speaker 6: Things up. Excuse me?

1748
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:35,000
Speaker 7: So, uh, you know, there are certain archetypal forms, and

1749
01:27:35,039 --> 01:27:37,680
if you study something like the trivium or the quadrivium,

1750
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:39,800
which is the classical forms of education, which I'm a

1751
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:42,760
big proponent of, you'll notice that there are there are

1752
01:27:42,760 --> 01:27:44,520
are I believe there are archetypal forms.

1753
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:45,199
Speaker 6: So things like.

1754
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:49,680
Speaker 7: Principles in geometry like the hexagram or the square, or

1755
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:50,800
the platonic solids.

1756
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:52,880
Speaker 6: These are things that are very real and they're they're

1757
01:27:53,039 --> 01:27:53,960
present in nature.

1758
01:27:54,319 --> 01:27:57,119
Speaker 7: So I would say that it's actually natural to man

1759
01:27:57,199 --> 01:28:00,079
to be influenced by these things and interpret these things

1760
01:28:00,119 --> 01:28:02,000
even and almost in an.

1761
01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:04,319
Speaker 6: Intuitive way without even knowing it.

1762
01:28:04,399 --> 01:28:08,920
Speaker 7: So, and I think infant infant research has has confirmed this.

1763
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:12,199
We've even known this then, this since p P figured

1764
01:28:12,239 --> 01:28:14,800
out that that infants actually pick things up and can

1765
01:28:14,840 --> 01:28:17,880
be conditioned, so to speak, whether you want to call

1766
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:19,520
it programmed or whether you want to use you know,

1767
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:22,680
mass laws of terminology or be of skinner terminology of

1768
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:27,520
of uh of conditioning. Condition doesn't matter because it's essentially

1769
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:31,000
offering condition. It's essentially you know, training people or it's

1770
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:34,720
sometimes called entrainment where you where you imprint this on people,

1771
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:39,560
and and archetypal forms and symbols have that power, I believe.

1772
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:41,680
Speaker 6: But that's a whole other, big, long discussion.

1773
01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:43,079
Speaker 5: But do you think they have an intrinsic meaning? Do

1774
01:28:43,159 --> 01:28:45,119
you think these symbols literally have some kind of intrinsic

1775
01:28:45,199 --> 01:28:48,359
meaning that so they're not descriptivism. It's it's you think

1776
01:28:48,399 --> 01:28:51,560
it falls under prescriptivism, then absolutely prescribe.

1777
01:28:52,039 --> 01:28:57,079
Speaker 6: Okay, Yeah, I believe meaning and level. Yeah.

1778
01:28:57,119 --> 01:29:01,680
Speaker 7: I believe in the reality of immaterial invariant objects and entities.

1779
01:29:02,119 --> 01:29:05,000
Speaker 6: I believe. Yeah, I believe in a kind of a psychosphere.

1780
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:06,720
I mean I had.

1781
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:09,319
Speaker 5: Plants.

1782
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:14,479
Speaker 6: I mean I'm not a flat Yeah.

1783
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:21,600
Speaker 5: Okay, let's see here something. I don't know what this means,

1784
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:24,319
so pretty please forgive me, but I'll ask it. Ask

1785
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:26,399
Jay his thoughts on number stations. Do you know what

1786
01:29:26,399 --> 01:29:27,159
they're referring to?

1787
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:30,159
Speaker 6: Yeah? I think I can't remember if I mentioned in

1788
01:29:30,199 --> 01:29:30,760
the book or not.

1789
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:32,199
Speaker 7: But I have a couple of essays I wrote in

1790
01:29:32,199 --> 01:29:34,159
a number stations, and these come out of the Cold War.

1791
01:29:34,199 --> 01:29:37,159
They were set up, oftentimes by the n Essay and

1792
01:29:37,199 --> 01:29:41,880
they were basically stations to relay information to agents out

1793
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:44,439
in the field. So you would have like a number

1794
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:47,520
station set up in say Norway or somewhere in the

1795
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:49,039
A lot of these still exist, by the way, and

1796
01:29:49,039 --> 01:29:51,560
they still put out their signals and they would just

1797
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:53,239
put out something like beeps.

1798
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:55,159
Speaker 6: Or a song just play on repeat.

1799
01:29:56,079 --> 01:29:58,600
Speaker 7: And the idea was that during the Cold War, the

1800
01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:01,199
other side wouldn't know what your code was, and if

1801
01:30:01,199 --> 01:30:04,119
you wanted to activate a cell in a certain area,

1802
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:08,800
then you would put the message into the relay, into

1803
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:12,560
the whatever's being sent out. And so like if you

1804
01:30:12,560 --> 01:30:15,399
watch the Americans that that show on Fax, which I

1805
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:18,079
thought was pretty good. I mean, it's obviously Hollywood, but

1806
01:30:18,119 --> 01:30:21,039
it's based on a lot of real world Soviet Cold

1807
01:30:21,039 --> 01:30:24,880
Wars type stuff. And there's several scenes in the series

1808
01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:27,399
where he goes and he like turns the radio and

1809
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:29,800
he listens to the you know, some little jingle and

1810
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:31,399
he writes down numbers, and.

1811
01:30:31,279 --> 01:30:34,399
Speaker 6: That's how he knows what Moscow is telling him to do.

1812
01:30:34,479 --> 01:30:37,319
Speaker 7: So that's very real and that still exists in number stations,

1813
01:30:37,359 --> 01:30:40,800
by the way, play into how we got cell phones

1814
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:43,319
and internet and wireless technology because all of that comes

1815
01:30:43,319 --> 01:30:46,680
out of Cold War cryptography.

1816
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:47,960
Speaker 2: It's a badass show too.

1817
01:30:49,159 --> 01:30:53,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, it makes sense, and maybe maybe Jimmy can kind

1818
01:30:53,119 --> 01:30:54,560
of wig in this one as well. If this is

1819
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:56,560
the case, if you answered the student of the affirmative,

1820
01:30:56,920 --> 01:30:59,199
but does Jay believe that CIA has an agenda to

1821
01:30:59,239 --> 01:31:02,319
sway individuals and Satanism? In other words, does JA believe

1822
01:31:02,359 --> 01:31:04,199
that the agenda is to move people away from God

1823
01:31:04,239 --> 01:31:05,479
in some way? Do you think there's some kind of

1824
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:09,000
underlying thing to move away from a from a deity belief,

1825
01:31:09,319 --> 01:31:14,680
to promote some kind of either atheism or satan Satanism.

1826
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:17,560
Speaker 7: I think that Satanic cults definitely play a role in

1827
01:31:17,600 --> 01:31:21,359
the CI's overall strategies and plans. I don't know that

1828
01:31:21,399 --> 01:31:25,079
it's necessarily uh to get everybody into Satanism. I do

1829
01:31:25,159 --> 01:31:28,560
think they use occult groups and occult ideologies UH to

1830
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:32,359
be to be popularized. And I would say, yeah, overall,

1831
01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:36,479
that does play a role in moving mass populations, but

1832
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:38,119
it's certainly not the only.

1833
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:40,840
Speaker 6: Ideology that they peddle.

1834
01:31:43,239 --> 01:31:46,720
Speaker 4: Well in that scenario with Satanism, in that scenario with

1835
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:51,600
Satanism include anything that is in direct opposition to Orthodoxy,

1836
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:54,119
or would other Christian in other words, would would they

1837
01:31:54,119 --> 01:31:57,479
be doing so via other Christian symbols, just not the

1838
01:31:57,560 --> 01:31:58,680
right Christian symbols.

1839
01:31:58,720 --> 01:31:59,880
Speaker 3: Would that?

1840
01:32:00,079 --> 01:32:02,760
Speaker 7: I just meant it in a very very precise sense.

1841
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:05,600
I wasn't speaking it in the sense of yeah, okay,

1842
01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:10,079
spiritually speaking, Yeah, we believe that that anything that's not

1843
01:32:10,279 --> 01:32:13,319
Orthodox ultimately can be used in that way. That doesn't

1844
01:32:13,319 --> 01:32:16,159
mean that everybody who's not Orthodox is evil or Satanic.

1845
01:32:16,199 --> 01:32:18,800
It just means that those things can fit into that agenda.

1846
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:22,239
I mean, for example, not every Marxist is a Satanist,

1847
01:32:22,319 --> 01:32:26,560
but I would say it root Marxism is in my view, Satanic,

1848
01:32:26,640 --> 01:32:29,399
so to speak. And that's because Marx. If you read

1849
01:32:30,479 --> 01:32:33,960
Richard Vernbrand's book, he demonstrates that Marx was influenced by

1850
01:32:34,239 --> 01:32:35,680
Satanism in his early days.

1851
01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:41,159
Speaker 2: Okay, I think we got two two.

1852
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:46,279
Speaker 5: More tew more questions. Okay, ask him what he thinks

1853
01:32:46,319 --> 01:32:48,359
of Mark Hamill and Kathy O'Brien, and I'm not sure

1854
01:32:48,399 --> 01:32:51,880
the relevancy, but we'll ask.

1855
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:55,720
Speaker 7: I think I think Luke Skywalker is al Luke is

1856
01:32:55,720 --> 01:32:57,359
an inceel in the new.

1857
01:33:00,199 --> 01:33:05,600
Speaker 6: No. Oh no, he's on an island and he's milking.

1858
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:07,720
He's milking sister.

1859
01:33:08,159 --> 01:33:10,680
Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean he probably I was mostly traumatized.

1860
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:11,159
Speaker 6: After that.

1861
01:33:12,079 --> 01:33:14,600
Speaker 5: I wouldn't be done with it. Have you seen my sister.

1862
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:17,920
Speaker 6: Kathy O'Brien. I mean, I don't know.

1863
01:33:17,960 --> 01:33:20,199
Speaker 7: A lot of her claims are hard to substantiate, so

1864
01:33:20,239 --> 01:33:22,920
I've never really relied on I'm not saying she's a

1865
01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:26,920
bad person. My girlfriend knows Kathy O'Brien. She's friendly with her,

1866
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:29,840
she thinks she's sweet. But I don't have any pro

1867
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:32,520
or con argument about Kathrie Oro. I've never really paid

1868
01:33:32,600 --> 01:33:33,119
any attention.

1869
01:33:35,439 --> 01:33:42,319
Speaker 1: Okay, and uh, well ahead, Steve, last one, your your

1870
01:33:42,399 --> 01:33:43,119
mud to state.

1871
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:49,760
Speaker 5: My bad. The Alumnimonnadi didn't want me to get this out.

1872
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:52,760
He said, how does Jay make the distinction between normal

1873
01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:56,039
societal structures such as corporate culture and cult conspiracy? And

1874
01:33:56,039 --> 01:33:58,560
by the way, if you could maybe suss out cult

1875
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:00,479
a little bit more, because I still personally and I

1876
01:34:00,560 --> 01:34:02,039
know I am confused, and I know the live chat

1877
01:34:02,079 --> 01:34:05,119
is whether you're taking cult from a theological type of perspective,

1878
01:34:05,119 --> 01:34:08,560
where you're talking about a there's different categorizations of what

1879
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:12,159
cans to be cultish as what could be a cult group.

1880
01:34:12,199 --> 01:34:15,479
And then there's also more of the orthodoxy approach to cultism.

1881
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:17,039
So if you can sus that out little bit more.

1882
01:34:17,039 --> 01:34:19,199
But they want to know if you make a distinction

1883
01:34:19,239 --> 01:34:22,319
between normal societal structures just as a corporate entities or

1884
01:34:22,359 --> 01:34:28,720
corporate cultures as opposed to the cult conspiracy. That makes sense.

1885
01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:32,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, again, I don't try to say that like everybody

1886
01:34:32,680 --> 01:34:36,199
who like David Rockefeller, if you read his memoirs, he

1887
01:34:36,279 --> 01:34:40,359
will talk about conspiracies. For example, he will admit I've

1888
01:34:40,399 --> 01:34:43,159
got his memoirs here somewhere.

1889
01:34:43,319 --> 01:34:43,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, right here.

1890
01:34:44,359 --> 01:34:46,680
Speaker 7: So David Rockefeller and his and his memoirs, and I

1891
01:34:46,680 --> 01:34:50,880
think he's a very powerful, famous individual who's had a

1892
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:52,640
lot of influence on American culture.

1893
01:34:53,479 --> 01:34:59,199
Speaker 6: And then if you look at chapter I've got it

1894
01:34:59,239 --> 01:35:00,039
marked here.

1895
01:35:02,399 --> 01:35:06,720
Speaker 7: Chapter twenty seven called the Proud Internationalist, where he basically

1896
01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:11,279
says that the people who accuse him of conspiracy are correct,

1897
01:35:11,319 --> 01:35:14,159
and he says that I am proud to be a

1898
01:35:14,199 --> 01:35:17,760
globalist and not a populist. So he's quite he's quite

1899
01:35:17,880 --> 01:35:21,000
clear about the goals. Chapter twenty seven Dave Roulers and

1900
01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:27,640
Memoirs of the Internationalist and their idea to create a

1901
01:35:27,680 --> 01:35:31,319
global government and so forth. So I would say that

1902
01:35:31,399 --> 01:35:34,720
David Rockefeller is very open I don't have any evidence

1903
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:37,800
that David Rockefeller isn't accultist. I've never seen anything that

1904
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:42,159
proves he's a Luciferian or a Satanist or anything like that.

1905
01:35:42,720 --> 01:35:45,680
He seems to be a pragmatic atheist who basically just

1906
01:35:45,720 --> 01:35:48,600
wants to create world government and kill most of humanity.

1907
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:52,039
That's what he seems to say openly. So I wouldn't

1908
01:35:52,079 --> 01:35:54,560
say he's an occultist. I wouldn't say, but I would

1909
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:57,960
say that he is part of an overall plan and strategy.

1910
01:35:58,000 --> 01:35:59,800
And so what I do at my channel, for example,

1911
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:03,520
as I do lectures based on these books, I have

1912
01:36:03,600 --> 01:36:06,000
about fifteen or twenty that I've gone through so far,

1913
01:36:06,039 --> 01:36:13,319
which are major globalist thinkers, geopoliticians, writers, Brazinski, those level guys,

1914
01:36:14,800 --> 01:36:17,399
and I just talk about what's in their books. We

1915
01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:21,239
do like a weekly book reading thing. So what I'm

1916
01:36:21,239 --> 01:36:23,840
getting at is that they don't necessarily have to be

1917
01:36:23,880 --> 01:36:27,279
a cultist to have the same plans and ideas. So

1918
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:31,479
when I say occult sometimes I'm referring to just secret knowledge.

1919
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:34,359
That's what the word means, and so intelligence agencies. Because

1920
01:36:34,359 --> 01:36:37,840
they traffic in secrets, they could be called occult organizations.

1921
01:36:38,119 --> 01:36:41,199
Sometimes I'm referring, though, to secret societies like Skull and

1922
01:36:41,279 --> 01:36:47,319
Bones or the Oto, or to Freemasonry, which are consciously

1923
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:50,800
secret societies that traffic in secret information and also have

1924
01:36:50,880 --> 01:36:55,000
hermitic and occultic beliefs, the Rosicrucians and so forth. So

1925
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:58,319
I'm very precise, I would say in the ways that

1926
01:36:58,359 --> 01:37:02,199
I make distinctions. I'm well aware of that Anton LaVey's

1927
01:37:02,399 --> 01:37:04,960
Satanism is more of a humanism and it's atheism.

1928
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:05,800
Speaker 6: I'm well aware of that.

1929
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:08,920
Speaker 7: I'm well aware of Michael Lokino's Temple of Set being

1930
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:11,840
more serious about it Satanism. So I think I'm pretty

1931
01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:14,560
fair and clear in the distinctions that I've made.

1932
01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:19,239
Speaker 5: So you don't think worship Satan or Jimmy to you, well,

1933
01:37:19,239 --> 01:37:20,960
the three of us, we're not Satan worshippers to you.

1934
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:25,359
Speaker 6: Right, I don't know you guys, so I don't I mean,

1935
01:37:25,359 --> 01:37:27,000
I assume you do. I don't know.

1936
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:29,520
Speaker 5: Answer, I guess, I mean.

1937
01:37:30,800 --> 01:37:34,399
Speaker 1: And then the last, the one last question, what conspiracy

1938
01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:36,359
theory do you absolutely disagree with?

1939
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:39,960
Speaker 6: I hate the flat earth big time.

1940
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:46,880
Speaker 5: Flat Earth is silly. You hear that flat earth is

1941
01:37:49,560 --> 01:37:52,000
a simple expert guy. He thinks flat earth is born.

1942
01:37:53,119 --> 01:37:56,119
Speaker 7: I had a like, actually a giant band of them

1943
01:37:56,159 --> 01:37:58,520
attack my channel one day and just like thumbed down

1944
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:00,640
and it was just all a boy kissed me off.

1945
01:38:05,039 --> 01:38:07,239
Speaker 4: I had a question or something along the same light.

1946
01:38:07,279 --> 01:38:10,119
That's relevant because it's relevant to uh C I A

1947
01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:13,000
driven conspiracies. I'd love to know what his if he

1948
01:38:13,039 --> 01:38:16,079
has a truth riism position, the idea about September eleventh

1949
01:38:16,119 --> 01:38:17,640
being an inside job.

1950
01:38:18,479 --> 01:38:19,560
Speaker 6: Oh, absolutely, yeah.

1951
01:38:19,600 --> 01:38:24,159
Speaker 4: I think that's unquestionable, unquestionable that it was an inside job.

1952
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:25,239
Speaker 3: Is that what you're saying?

1953
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:30,119
Speaker 4: Okay, sorry, I've I've done word games before where someone

1954
01:38:30,119 --> 01:38:31,880
asked do you have a position, and I say, yes,

1955
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:33,039
I do, and that's where I left it.

1956
01:38:33,039 --> 01:38:34,399
Speaker 3: So I just made sure you weren't doing the same

1957
01:38:34,399 --> 01:38:35,600
thing I've done before as a joke.

1958
01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:39,640
Speaker 7: No, I haven't. I haven't covered it. I haven't covered

1959
01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:41,760
in a while just because it hasn't come up. But no,

1960
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:45,520
I think that was pretty clearly an inside job collusion

1961
01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:51,479
between Western intelligence, the PNAT group, Neo conservatives, probably Israeli intelligence,

1962
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:52,239
and groups like that.

1963
01:38:52,399 --> 01:38:53,920
Speaker 6: So that's who really did it. I don't think it's

1964
01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:55,399
been lot and been laden was a long time.

1965
01:38:55,479 --> 01:39:00,399
Speaker 4: CIA said, So how attached would it be this pooh,

1966
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:01,359
are we out of time?

1967
01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:03,199
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1968
01:39:03,399 --> 01:39:06,239
Speaker 6: How attached to that? No?

1969
01:39:06,239 --> 01:39:06,800
Speaker 3: No, no, not you.

1970
01:39:06,920 --> 01:39:09,000
Speaker 4: I want to know how attached this group, these groups

1971
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:13,920
would be to these same groups that exist behind the

1972
01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:15,079
symbology in movies.

1973
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:17,000
Speaker 3: Simpolis.

1974
01:39:17,359 --> 01:39:20,479
Speaker 8: Well, I think that when I when I do my talks,

1975
01:39:20,520 --> 01:39:25,560
for example, on global power structures geopolitics, I'm going to

1976
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:28,399
cover pretty standard works that that.

1977
01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:31,079
Speaker 6: Shouldn't really be.

1978
01:39:31,359 --> 01:39:34,760
Speaker 7: Too debatable, Like you know, we're going to do the

1979
01:39:34,760 --> 01:39:37,000
big ne Brazienski's Grand Chess Board. You know, he was

1980
01:39:37,119 --> 01:39:41,079
obviously the guy who created al Qaeda under Jimmy Carter,

1981
01:39:41,199 --> 01:39:42,520
that's very easy to verify.

1982
01:39:43,399 --> 01:39:46,199
Speaker 6: I cover uh, his other book.

1983
01:39:46,079 --> 01:39:48,680
Speaker 7: Between Two Ages, which is written in the seventies and

1984
01:39:48,720 --> 01:39:51,439
talks about creating basically a giant technocracy.

1985
01:39:52,560 --> 01:39:56,199
Speaker 6: But the main sort of central work that I focus.

1986
01:39:55,920 --> 01:39:59,600
Speaker 7: On that answers your very question about power blocks is

1987
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:02,560
Carol Quigley's Tragy and Hope. So I have eight lectures

1988
01:40:02,960 --> 01:40:05,399
on the totality of all thirteen hundred pages, and this

1989
01:40:05,439 --> 01:40:07,680
is one of the most famous geopolitical treatises of the

1990
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:11,680
twentieth century, and he describes, you know, large power blocks,

1991
01:40:11,720 --> 01:40:15,680
and for him, we live in the atlantisist power blocks.

1992
01:40:15,760 --> 01:40:18,600
That would be the US, the UK, and Israel, and

1993
01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:21,640
so they pretty much control the Western world in a

1994
01:40:21,720 --> 01:40:24,439
large part of the rest of the globe. So that's

1995
01:40:24,479 --> 01:40:27,840
how I see geopolitics shaking out, and that's who.

1996
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:29,520
Speaker 6: In a large part controls Hollywood.

1997
01:40:31,079 --> 01:40:35,239
Speaker 7: And we're gonna have to because the same people that

1998
01:40:35,319 --> 01:40:37,600
created the CIA is the CIA is actually a creation

1999
01:40:37,680 --> 01:40:40,760
of the Rockefellers and British intelligence. I mean, they're not

2000
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:43,560
going the Hollywood's not going to do something different than

2001
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:46,560
what this overall power structure wants, which is why, for example,

2002
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:51,560
they demonize Russia. Hollywood across the board demonizes Russia, Russia, collusion, Trump,

2003
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:52,199
all that stuff.

2004
01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:55,199
Speaker 6: That's all pretty much top down.

2005
01:40:56,399 --> 01:40:57,880
Speaker 5: We're gonna have to be wrapping it up. So how

2006
01:40:57,880 --> 01:40:59,079
about we kind of let you guys.

2007
01:40:59,199 --> 01:41:00,800
Speaker 2: We're going to have to come back to UH to

2008
01:41:00,880 --> 01:41:05,600
finish that. Well yeah, hell yeah, that.

2009
01:41:05,039 --> 01:41:09,520
Speaker 3: Was definitely be a conversation. I'd be way more excited by.

2010
01:41:11,199 --> 01:41:13,520
Speaker 2: At two hours. But I would love to hear the

2011
01:41:13,520 --> 01:41:15,640
rest of where you're well.

2012
01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:20,279
Speaker 5: Can I ask m yeah, oh yeah, yeah, if you

2013
01:41:20,319 --> 01:41:22,239
want to ask questions, we have a little bit of

2014
01:41:22,359 --> 01:41:24,960
time for that, that's fine, go ahead, please.

2015
01:41:25,039 --> 01:41:26,359
Speaker 7: Well, no, I was just gonna say, I was just

2016
01:41:26,359 --> 01:41:29,279
gonna say, like, have you guys looked at Brazenski or

2017
01:41:29,399 --> 01:41:31,760
like Jock out to Lee? Like what I do is

2018
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:34,600
basically just cover all these guys books and and I mean.

2019
01:41:34,479 --> 01:41:39,840
Speaker 6: They're they're No, Honestly, I didn't actually read the book.

2020
01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:41,199
I just like to post it notes in there.

2021
01:41:42,439 --> 01:41:47,600
Speaker 5: I don't actually, you know, some research, but I don't

2022
01:41:47,600 --> 01:41:48,960
look at any of them.

2023
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:52,720
Speaker 1: I haven't, But I find the I find the uh

2024
01:41:53,640 --> 01:41:58,920
arguments that like stuff like when I say that I'm

2025
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:03,319
not conspiracy seriraucly minded, I still like to hear what

2026
01:42:03,439 --> 01:42:07,359
everybody's society is. Like, I'm fascinated by the arguments that

2027
01:42:07,399 --> 01:42:08,159
people put forth.

2028
01:42:09,560 --> 01:42:11,039
Speaker 5: Yeah, like the last book that them two.

2029
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:14,239
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's actually going to be in my new book

2030
01:42:14,279 --> 01:42:16,520
because there are movies that have geoengineering.

2031
01:42:16,600 --> 01:42:18,560
Speaker 6: So I'm actually going to include that in the second book.

2032
01:42:19,359 --> 01:42:21,680
Speaker 5: Right now, I would love to have a chemictry episode.

2033
01:42:22,159 --> 01:42:24,399
Speaker 6: I'll come on a debate debate that uh.

2034
01:42:24,520 --> 01:42:27,359
Speaker 7: Right now, I'm covering uh Annie Jacobson's pretty famous book

2035
01:42:27,359 --> 01:42:30,359
on the history of DARPA, which is Pentagon's Brain. Uh,

2036
01:42:30,399 --> 01:42:33,319
and there's actually a chapter that gets into geoengineering. Now,

2037
01:42:33,359 --> 01:42:36,159
she's a mainline journalist, just chronicling the history of DARPA.

2038
01:42:36,239 --> 01:42:39,520
She's not a conspiracy theorist. So this was actually Pulitzer nominated.

2039
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:43,039
So I always try to go from the mainline sources

2040
01:42:43,079 --> 01:42:45,000
to make my case. That's kind of my whole my

2041
01:42:45,039 --> 01:42:45,560
whole bag.

2042
01:42:46,239 --> 01:42:48,319
Speaker 2: You you do your research, and that I can. I

2043
01:42:48,359 --> 01:42:51,239
thought I can say that you don't don't do your research,

2044
01:42:51,239 --> 01:42:51,800
that's for sure.

2045
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:57,079
Speaker 1: But uh, I find the the the While I don't

2046
01:42:57,079 --> 01:42:59,439
agree with most conspiracy theories, I still like to hear

2047
01:43:00,439 --> 01:43:02,279
the the arguments from both sides.

2048
01:43:02,279 --> 01:43:03,520
Speaker 2: I think it's fascinating to have.

2049
01:43:04,159 --> 01:43:06,720
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't see why people make such

2050
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:10,840
a big deal about having things like the Kim Trail debates.

2051
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:13,319
Speaker 2: Are the anti factor, you know, any of those kinds

2052
01:43:13,319 --> 01:43:13,640
of things.

2053
01:43:13,680 --> 01:43:16,680
Speaker 1: I think it's it's important to have those kinds of

2054
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:19,000
discussions out in the open.

2055
01:43:19,199 --> 01:43:23,439
Speaker 7: Well, I'll tell you what challenge. Here's the challenge real quick,

2056
01:43:23,920 --> 01:43:26,760
then I'll shut up. If you go to my YouTube page,

2057
01:43:26,760 --> 01:43:31,560
there's a list of titled a playlist titled Globalist book series.

2058
01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:35,680
Speaker 6: And then that's just my arguments from the different geopolitical

2059
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:39,520
texts about you know, so called conspiracies that I think are.

2060
01:43:39,399 --> 01:43:43,800
Speaker 1: Real awesome, and I'll look at I'll tell you what,

2061
01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:45,800
I'll look into one of yours.

2062
01:43:46,279 --> 01:43:49,640
Speaker 2: If you at some point check out the Spinks, just.

2063
01:43:49,720 --> 01:43:54,399
Speaker 1: Go and and read a little bit about the the

2064
01:43:54,439 --> 01:43:57,640
Sphinks and and tell me what you think I'm I have.

2065
01:43:57,760 --> 01:43:58,920
Speaker 2: I have people that are.

2066
01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:04,760
Speaker 1: Point ancient point collector that we have come on here.

2067
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:07,960
All of them think that I'm just that shit crazy

2068
01:44:08,319 --> 01:44:11,479
for bringing up But I think.

2069
01:44:11,359 --> 01:44:13,119
Speaker 5: There's guys think got bat shit crazy if you think

2070
01:44:13,119 --> 01:44:17,680
of colors don't exist though, so welcome to my work.

2071
01:44:17,840 --> 01:44:19,039
Speaker 3: I don't think you're crazy for that.

2072
01:44:19,960 --> 01:44:22,079
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know, I agree upon this.

2073
01:44:22,960 --> 01:44:26,119
Speaker 7: I want to say I appreciate, uh, I appreciate the challenge,

2074
01:44:26,159 --> 01:44:28,960
mister atheist. I appreciate you conducting it in a very

2075
01:44:28,960 --> 01:44:31,119
civil way that I thought it was a very fruitful conversation.

2076
01:44:32,079 --> 01:44:33,079
Speaker 6: I liked the critique.

2077
01:44:33,079 --> 01:44:36,119
Speaker 7: I thought you do have a point there about uh,

2078
01:44:36,159 --> 01:44:38,359
you know, maybe and then maybe in the second book,

2079
01:44:38,359 --> 01:44:40,079
what I'll try to do is frame it in a

2080
01:44:40,199 --> 01:44:43,520
more uh like, let me prove.

2081
01:44:43,279 --> 01:44:46,239
Speaker 6: My case to you from the outset rather than assuming.

2082
01:44:46,680 --> 01:44:47,319
So I'll take that.

2083
01:44:47,600 --> 01:44:49,600
Speaker 3: I think that would be I think that would be important.

2084
01:44:49,600 --> 01:44:52,760
Speaker 4: And I genuinely don't mean this in any way disparaging,

2085
01:44:53,000 --> 01:44:56,800
but I do think, especially toward the end of the conversation, uh,

2086
01:44:56,880 --> 01:44:59,520
where we started talking about other stuff, now, I would

2087
01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:02,399
almost need that just to get past that. It seems

2088
01:45:03,239 --> 01:45:05,279
the case that you have at the very least a

2089
01:45:05,359 --> 01:45:09,239
conspiratorial brain. Not say you embrace every conspiracy, but I

2090
01:45:09,279 --> 01:45:11,520
have new concerns because of some of the conspiracies you

2091
01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:13,960
do embrace. So I would want that second, second level

2092
01:45:13,960 --> 01:45:16,359
of connection to tell you the truth. If you aren't

2093
01:45:16,399 --> 01:45:18,640
willing to come to your current book and make the

2094
01:45:18,680 --> 01:45:22,800
presuppositions that the book calls for, it's not the easiest

2095
01:45:22,840 --> 01:45:25,159
read for you because you're going to keep hitting those moments.

2096
01:45:26,920 --> 01:45:29,000
And I'm just going to call this my conclusion and

2097
01:45:29,039 --> 01:45:31,039
let you respond to anything you want for yours that way,

2098
01:45:31,399 --> 01:45:31,760
because I.

2099
01:45:34,880 --> 01:45:36,000
Speaker 3: Can I make one more point on it.

2100
01:45:37,720 --> 01:45:40,359
Speaker 4: So yeah, Well, so the last part of the conclusion

2101
01:45:40,439 --> 01:45:42,520
was the other thing, the other issue I have with

2102
01:45:42,560 --> 01:45:45,560
the book that's now been exacerbated by our discussion or

2103
01:45:45,560 --> 01:45:47,960
debate or whatever we want to call this. Here was

2104
01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:51,039
now a pattern that seems to be emerging of your

2105
01:45:51,119 --> 01:45:54,439
embracing of sciences that seem to make your point or

2106
01:45:54,560 --> 01:46:00,520
be acceptable within your preps Orthodoxy worldview, things about psychcology,

2107
01:46:00,680 --> 01:46:05,079
but very dismissive of the sciences and quick to conclude

2108
01:46:05,119 --> 01:46:08,119
they themselves or cults and conspiracies if they interfere with

2109
01:46:08,199 --> 01:46:09,920
your orthodoxy worldview.

2110
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:13,319
Speaker 7: I mean, in fact, again, the positions that I believe

2111
01:46:13,439 --> 01:46:15,640
now or not positions I was raised with, or not

2112
01:46:15,720 --> 01:46:19,119
ones that I elected long ago to defend to the death.

2113
01:46:19,159 --> 01:46:22,199
I've changed my mind multiple times in my research and

2114
01:46:22,239 --> 01:46:26,039
academic career, so I just have a lot of different interests,

2115
01:46:26,079 --> 01:46:29,079
and I never came to any of these topics with

2116
01:46:30,159 --> 01:46:34,239
the assumption of conspiracy per se. I think that when

2117
01:46:34,319 --> 01:46:37,239
you look at anything like geopolitics, which is something that

2118
01:46:37,279 --> 01:46:40,039
I got into in the latter half of my academic career,

2119
01:46:40,239 --> 01:46:43,159
like later twenties and into grad school, is that you're

2120
01:46:43,159 --> 01:46:45,199
forced to This is something that if you go to

2121
01:46:45,199 --> 01:46:46,960
grad school you'll experience.

2122
01:46:47,000 --> 01:46:48,479
Speaker 6: You're forced to defend your positions.

2123
01:46:49,039 --> 01:46:53,000
Speaker 7: You can't just have a thing where you go to

2124
01:46:53,039 --> 01:46:55,359
the professors when you have to defend your case, and

2125
01:46:55,399 --> 01:46:58,800
you just say, well, here's what I want my argument

2126
01:46:58,840 --> 01:47:00,079
to be, and I'm only going to list the.

2127
01:47:00,159 --> 01:47:02,439
Speaker 6: Sources that I want. Now, the first thing that you

2128
01:47:02,479 --> 01:47:06,520
do is you debate the other side.

2129
01:47:06,560 --> 01:47:07,920
Speaker 7: And so the only way that I would have ever

2130
01:47:08,000 --> 01:47:11,159
changed my mind, I'm just given an existential experience kind

2131
01:47:11,199 --> 01:47:12,680
of account here.

2132
01:47:12,720 --> 01:47:14,039
Speaker 6: I'm not saying this proves anything.

2133
01:47:14,079 --> 01:47:17,439
Speaker 7: I'm just saying that that I think I've been fairly

2134
01:47:17,479 --> 01:47:20,079
open minded. I've listened to, you know, tons of debates

2135
01:47:20,119 --> 01:47:23,520
from various perspectives. I don't think science is bad, nor

2136
01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:26,880
do I I disregard science effects. One of the things

2137
01:47:26,880 --> 01:47:29,119
that I focused on in grad school was the science

2138
01:47:29,159 --> 01:47:32,800
of cognition and the philosophy of science. So that's actually

2139
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:35,359
something that's very crucial to a lot of the essays

2140
01:47:35,359 --> 01:47:38,479
I've written over the years. I just have different views

2141
01:47:38,520 --> 01:47:42,439
about how epistemology works, how metaphysics works, and those aren't

2142
01:47:42,479 --> 01:47:46,199
positions that I came to defend a conspiracy view or

2143
01:47:46,239 --> 01:47:51,760
to defend necessarily a theological view. Because I've interacted with

2144
01:47:52,439 --> 01:47:57,960
everything from Satanism to atheism, to Aristelianism to Platonism to Buddhism.

2145
01:47:58,239 --> 01:48:00,640
Speaker 6: Different philosophy is over over the years.

2146
01:48:00,680 --> 01:48:03,119
Speaker 7: So I would say I'm pretty pretty open minded to

2147
01:48:03,199 --> 01:48:06,560
being corrected or critiqued. Otherwise I wouldn't have come to

2148
01:48:06,600 --> 01:48:09,840
a position that's a so called conspiracy. But I think

2149
01:48:09,880 --> 01:48:13,680
when you look at big time globalist players and you

2150
01:48:13,720 --> 01:48:17,119
read their books, and I do a talk on that

2151
01:48:17,159 --> 01:48:20,960
guy's book and what he says, I mean, that's just research,

2152
01:48:21,079 --> 01:48:22,560
that's just citing the sources.

2153
01:48:22,600 --> 01:48:25,279
Speaker 6: I don't see how that's even How can you even.

2154
01:48:25,199 --> 01:48:27,760
Speaker 7: Say it's a conspiracy theory if you're if you're looking

2155
01:48:27,800 --> 01:48:30,079
at what Brazenski himself says, and if you don't know

2156
01:48:30,119 --> 01:48:31,640
Brezenski and how important he's been.

2157
01:48:32,399 --> 01:48:33,439
Speaker 6: You know, I'm not dissing you.

2158
01:48:33,479 --> 01:48:36,159
Speaker 7: I'm saying theoretically, if a person doesn't know his important role,

2159
01:48:36,760 --> 01:48:38,359
then that's really their own ignorance.

2160
01:48:38,359 --> 01:48:39,039
Speaker 6: It's not my fault.

2161
01:48:40,359 --> 01:48:43,000
Speaker 4: I won't because I said I would, But I did

2162
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:44,600
want to say I'd love to come back.

2163
01:48:44,479 --> 01:48:46,600
Speaker 3: And do Evolution with you sometime if you're down for it.

2164
01:48:47,680 --> 01:48:49,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, we could probably fit that down eventually if I

2165
01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:52,279
can get free, Yeah for sure.

2166
01:48:53,119 --> 01:48:55,600
Speaker 2: And we definitely want to have you back with Kim Trosty.

2167
01:48:55,720 --> 01:48:58,479
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna let you guys kind of take us

2168
01:48:58,479 --> 01:49:02,520
out with uh, something about your your channel, what you've

2169
01:49:02,560 --> 01:49:05,119
got coming up. And also I wanted to ask Jay

2170
01:49:05,119 --> 01:49:06,399
when does your new book come out?

2171
01:49:08,399 --> 01:49:10,479
Speaker 7: Right now, I'm in the process of finishing up the

2172
01:49:10,479 --> 01:49:14,840
sidebars and the citations, so I would say, and that

2173
01:49:15,039 --> 01:49:18,800
the best bet would probably be two three months.

2174
01:49:20,159 --> 01:49:20,399
Speaker 5: Cool.

2175
01:49:24,399 --> 01:49:25,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2176
01:49:25,720 --> 01:49:27,119
Speaker 5: The only thing I want to add is I think

2177
01:49:27,319 --> 01:49:29,439
doing made a good critique on that that I think

2178
01:49:29,439 --> 01:49:31,800
that Jays actually is incorporating, which I think is a

2179
01:49:31,800 --> 01:49:34,159
brilliant thing, is that you know, your first book had

2180
01:49:34,199 --> 01:49:36,159
this one specific approach with I, by the way, don't

2181
01:49:36,159 --> 01:49:37,960
see a problem with I don't have an issue how

2182
01:49:37,960 --> 01:49:40,600
you approached it at all. But I also think that

2183
01:49:40,680 --> 01:49:42,159
the second book, if you're going to do it the

2184
01:49:42,199 --> 01:49:45,199
way Jimmy suggested that says, here's what my argument will be.

2185
01:49:45,319 --> 01:49:46,960
This is what I want to prove to you. Let

2186
01:49:46,960 --> 01:49:48,720
me see if I can make my argument. That's fine

2187
01:49:48,760 --> 01:49:50,840
as well. It's a different way of approaching it, but

2188
01:49:51,159 --> 01:49:52,720
it shows you can come out that you can come

2189
01:49:52,760 --> 01:49:54,920
at it from two different perspectives, and I think that's versatile.

2190
01:49:56,840 --> 01:49:59,159
Speaker 3: I do want to specify without rehashing the argument.

2191
01:49:59,239 --> 01:50:02,520
Speaker 4: My argument more to do with whether what the book

2192
01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:05,840
represents itself as versus what the book actually delivered in

2193
01:50:05,880 --> 01:50:08,479
that regard, but again not to reactually already imagine them

2194
01:50:08,479 --> 01:50:10,079
to make sure that that was clear.

2195
01:50:10,119 --> 01:50:13,479
Speaker 1: Sure, okay, and did you want to talk about the episode?

2196
01:50:13,720 --> 01:50:15,680
Look before I've seated everything to close it out.

2197
01:50:15,800 --> 01:50:19,800
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, before we before you end, our wonderful producer

2198
01:50:19,800 --> 01:50:22,479
who amazingly did such a great job on our audio

2199
01:50:22,520 --> 01:50:24,760
levels this time. People, you have noticed and they really

2200
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:28,039
did a lot of work prior to this episode to

2201
01:50:28,279 --> 01:50:32,319
get off being normalized, so kudos to you. He will

2202
01:50:32,359 --> 01:50:35,039
be running an after show on the Great Debate Community Channel,

2203
01:50:35,079 --> 01:50:36,760
which is the community channel that we all kind of

2204
01:50:36,760 --> 01:50:39,600
just go to for various things. It will be streamed

2205
01:50:39,600 --> 01:50:41,039
from the non secord.

2206
01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:41,479
Speaker 6: To Show Discord.

2207
01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:44,319
Speaker 5: However, links will be in the video description, so if

2208
01:50:44,319 --> 01:50:45,960
you want to be a part of that, anybody can join.

2209
01:50:46,319 --> 01:50:48,079
Just you need a discord, you can use it from

2210
01:50:48,119 --> 01:50:49,880
downloading it or to go on the web. So go

2211
01:50:49,920 --> 01:50:52,840
to the non sec non secuor to show discord and

2212
01:50:52,840 --> 01:50:54,079
be a part of it, or just listen in. But

2213
01:50:54,119 --> 01:50:56,560
that'll probably be some time between fifteen to twenty minutes

2214
01:50:56,560 --> 01:50:59,399
after this episode ends. But we'll continue on the carricters

2215
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:01,520
continue on the conversation there.

2216
01:51:02,680 --> 01:51:05,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Jimmy will start with you just to tell

2217
01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:07,680
everybody what you got coming up if you wanna plug anything.

2218
01:51:07,840 --> 01:51:13,640
Speaker 4: And yeah, so obviously my page is mister Atheist. We

2219
01:51:13,680 --> 01:51:15,720
talk about all the questions that atheists are asked over and

2220
01:51:15,720 --> 01:51:19,199
over again, especially those ones that are the large misconceptions

2221
01:51:19,199 --> 01:51:21,359
are made about. So we recently did one called why

2222
01:51:21,359 --> 01:51:24,079
are atheists so arrogant? We did why do atheists hate God?

2223
01:51:24,720 --> 01:51:29,119
Things along that that line of thinking. We have Sunday

2224
01:51:29,119 --> 01:51:31,399
Mass every Sunday, which is usually myself and up to

2225
01:51:31,560 --> 01:51:34,920
three other YouTubers who come on and just talk about

2226
01:51:34,920 --> 01:51:39,960
week events, usually starting with the ones that related to atheism,

2227
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:42,760
and then the show usually quickly devolves into dick jokes.

2228
01:51:42,800 --> 01:51:44,720
I highly recommend no one ever watches it ever.

2229
01:51:46,079 --> 01:51:48,199
Speaker 5: It's awesome, awesome, and it's fun.

2230
01:51:49,159 --> 01:51:53,159
Speaker 3: It is fun. I on this weekend some point I

2231
01:51:53,239 --> 01:51:53,880
will post.

2232
01:51:54,119 --> 01:51:55,920
Speaker 4: I was on Steve's show the other day and we

2233
01:51:55,960 --> 01:51:57,359
had an awesome debate with.

2234
01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:01,199
Speaker 3: Victor Or Woton and if you guys have seen him

2235
01:52:01,199 --> 01:52:04,920
in the flatter stuff, I'm not want time. Yeah, yeah,

2236
01:52:04,960 --> 01:52:06,720
it was all about flatter Earth. It was awesome I'm

2237
01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:07,920
gonna be isolating just that.

2238
01:52:07,880 --> 01:52:09,840
Speaker 4: Part of the stream and posting it to my channel

2239
01:52:10,239 --> 01:52:11,520
uh here in the coming days.

2240
01:52:11,640 --> 01:52:13,520
Speaker 3: And I know I have another debate coming up, but

2241
01:52:13,560 --> 01:52:14,479
I can't think of what it is.

2242
01:52:14,479 --> 01:52:19,680
Speaker 4: But it will be about a topic that is I'm

2243
01:52:19,680 --> 01:52:21,079
not saying this wasn't a fun topic.

2244
01:52:21,399 --> 01:52:22,439
Speaker 3: Uh it was.

2245
01:52:22,479 --> 01:52:24,159
Speaker 4: And I enjoyed a lot of the symbols in the

2246
01:52:24,159 --> 01:52:25,960
book and going I wouldn't even notice that was in

2247
01:52:25,960 --> 01:52:28,880
the background. But it'll be something more along than normal

2248
01:52:28,920 --> 01:52:32,479
things I do, which is evolution, flat Earth, those sorts.

2249
01:52:32,279 --> 01:52:35,560
Speaker 1: Of things out your boxton I, which I think is

2250
01:52:35,560 --> 01:52:38,600
commendable though I mean going out to a you know,

2251
01:52:38,920 --> 01:52:39,760
an area that you're.

2252
01:52:39,640 --> 01:52:45,760
Speaker 4: Not I mean, Okay, my my goal here, and so

2253
01:52:45,960 --> 01:52:47,479
I want to make sure this is stated. My goal

2254
01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:49,600
here was I had a book that I read that

2255
01:52:49,680 --> 01:52:52,520
I had questions for. I think Jay answered the questions.

2256
01:52:52,560 --> 01:52:54,560
I don't think that means I agree with him. I

2257
01:52:54,640 --> 01:52:56,640
wasn't bothered by a lot.

2258
01:52:56,520 --> 01:52:58,600
Speaker 3: Of his answers. There are a few things here and there.

2259
01:52:58,640 --> 01:53:01,840
Speaker 4: But my goal here was ask the questions about the

2260
01:53:01,880 --> 01:53:03,880
red flags I saw in the book.

2261
01:53:04,800 --> 01:53:06,600
Speaker 3: And I think I think we I think we did that.

2262
01:53:07,479 --> 01:53:11,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean we come from a I'm a I'm

2263
01:53:11,560 --> 01:53:12,560
a paradigm thinker.

2264
01:53:12,640 --> 01:53:15,880
Speaker 7: So my view is I believe in the transcendental argument,

2265
01:53:15,920 --> 01:53:18,680
which is obviously connected to the idea that all worldviews

2266
01:53:18,680 --> 01:53:21,760
are paradigms, and so I don't believe in the possibility

2267
01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:25,840
of neutrality. That doesn't mean I believe that all knowledge

2268
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:28,279
or or logic or facts are relative.

2269
01:53:28,319 --> 01:53:28,880
Speaker 6: No, not at all.

2270
01:53:28,920 --> 01:53:31,800
Speaker 7: I believe in objectivity, but I just simply believe that

2271
01:53:31,880 --> 01:53:35,800
ultimately big picture questions are solved by comparisons of paradigms.

2272
01:53:36,479 --> 01:53:40,600
But unfortunately that also influences the way that we come

2273
01:53:40,640 --> 01:53:43,159
to books, or we write things, or we do things.

2274
01:53:43,199 --> 01:53:45,880
And so this wasn't a polemical book. This was a

2275
01:53:45,920 --> 01:53:48,439
book that was written to be fun. It was written

2276
01:53:48,439 --> 01:53:51,800
to be conspiratorial, it was written to be kind of sexy,

2277
01:53:52,520 --> 01:53:54,119
and that's what I wanted for it, and I think

2278
01:53:54,119 --> 01:53:57,000
I achieved that. But I'm welcome to be criticized, and

2279
01:53:57,000 --> 01:54:00,000
I appreciate the critiques that he brought and I'm definitely

2280
01:54:00,199 --> 01:54:03,520
and you know, going to try to hone the skills

2281
01:54:04,199 --> 01:54:04,920
for the next book.

2282
01:54:04,960 --> 01:54:07,720
Speaker 6: So I appreciate it. And in fact, I think that.

2283
01:54:09,159 --> 01:54:11,079
Speaker 7: When I read, when I look back and I look

2284
01:54:11,119 --> 01:54:13,119
at the book because this is actually some of these essays,

2285
01:54:13,119 --> 01:54:15,119
you know, for things I wrote my twenties, some of

2286
01:54:15,159 --> 01:54:16,680
them are are years old.

2287
01:54:17,199 --> 01:54:18,239
Speaker 6: I kind of cringe.

2288
01:54:18,600 --> 01:54:20,239
Speaker 7: So, I mean, I'm proud of it because it was

2289
01:54:20,279 --> 01:54:22,199
my my freshman outing. But yeah, some of the some

2290
01:54:22,239 --> 01:54:25,000
of the chapters are kind of weak. So but that's

2291
01:54:25,039 --> 01:54:26,760
what happens as you get older and you look back

2292
01:54:26,800 --> 01:54:28,199
at stuff that you wrote when you were younger.

2293
01:54:28,239 --> 01:54:30,760
Speaker 6: But hopefully the second book will be a little.

2294
01:54:30,720 --> 01:54:35,119
Speaker 3: From the book was sexy. It was sexy. There were

2295
01:54:35,159 --> 01:54:35,840
books if.

2296
01:54:35,760 --> 01:54:41,279
Speaker 7: I achieved that, I achieve that that's cool, must read now.

2297
01:54:42,000 --> 01:54:46,199
Speaker 5: Yeah, so as with Boobs Illustrations, Yeah, the.

2298
01:54:49,439 --> 01:54:51,079
Speaker 7: Second book will be out in the next couple of months.

2299
01:54:51,319 --> 01:54:54,359
I should have a new TV show hopefully in the works.

2300
01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:56,199
That's all I can say on that, based on the

2301
01:54:56,239 --> 01:55:01,600
non disclosure agreement, and I'll be hosting uh Andy Worski's

2302
01:55:01,680 --> 01:55:05,199
Orsky Lives the foreseeable future. We'll have Ryan Dawson on Friday.

2303
01:55:05,279 --> 01:55:08,600
So he's of course a big proponent of nine to eleven.

2304
01:55:08,680 --> 01:55:11,079
Was an inside job, one of the one of the

2305
01:55:11,119 --> 01:55:14,199
better debaters of that topic. But I think actually we're

2306
01:55:14,239 --> 01:55:17,039
going to be talking comic books and the influence of

2307
01:55:17,119 --> 01:55:19,600
social justice warriors in comic books. We'll have some big

2308
01:55:19,600 --> 01:55:22,359
comic book artists on for this Friday, So that's what's

2309
01:55:22,399 --> 01:55:24,800
coming up with us and my my channel is just

2310
01:55:25,039 --> 01:55:26,920
standard stuff. We're going to keep going through the Globals

2311
01:55:26,960 --> 01:55:30,319
book series. We're going to finish the Pentagon Brain book

2312
01:55:30,319 --> 01:55:31,560
by Annie Jacobson next.

2313
01:55:32,600 --> 01:55:35,600
Speaker 1: That's great, Well, we'll in the in the description you'll

2314
01:55:35,600 --> 01:55:38,239
find the links to Jay Channel will also link to

2315
01:55:39,119 --> 01:55:44,000
Andy Orski so that you can catch that. Uh.

2316
01:55:44,319 --> 01:55:46,239
Speaker 2: I think that's interesting with the comic.

2317
01:55:46,079 --> 01:55:51,159
Speaker 6: Book guys, I like that. Oh yeah, of course, mister.

2318
01:55:51,760 --> 01:55:54,520
Speaker 1: Links are down there below as well. Remember, guys, we'll

2319
01:55:54,560 --> 01:55:58,720
beat back tomorrow at eight o'clock with Nightmare Fuel on

2320
01:55:58,760 --> 01:56:02,119
Saturday at eight with Russell Placer from The Athe's Experience

2321
01:56:02,199 --> 01:56:07,520
and Matt Powell the our our favorite.

2322
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:11,239
Speaker 2: Uh what did I say? I keep forgetting my said Steve, our.

2323
01:56:11,359 --> 01:56:14,479
Speaker 5: Favorite, our our favorite, twenty two year old pastor that

2324
01:56:14,520 --> 01:56:17,760
wants to kill kids. And it's by the way, but

2325
01:56:18,199 --> 01:56:21,199
you know what were once they needed Mario needs a

2326
01:56:21,199 --> 01:56:23,600
screenshot of this. Come on, everybody. Oh yeah, Mari knows

2327
01:56:23,640 --> 01:56:27,199
the shot over your eyes, the moment.

2328
01:56:27,479 --> 01:56:28,039
Speaker 6: It over your eye.

2329
01:56:28,079 --> 01:56:30,600
Speaker 5: Bro over there you go, Okay, both eyes.

2330
01:56:32,840 --> 01:56:35,479
Speaker 3: Kyle doesn't quite get it, Kyle photo.

2331
01:56:35,279 --> 01:56:37,000
Speaker 2: Shot stuff yet.

2332
01:56:37,800 --> 01:56:39,560
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna put binoculars in your

2333
01:56:40,479 --> 01:56:43,279
Speaker 2: We'll see you tomorrow at Fuck you, missus, We'll see

2334
01:56:43,279 --> 01:56:43,840
you tomorrow at