WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>There's many cases why a private company is private. A

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<v Speaker 1>lot of it has to do with the CEO just

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't want it to be publicly traded. There are many

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<v Speaker 1>companies in the private space that, technically speaking, if you

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<v Speaker 1>compare them to a lot of publicly traded companies, are

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<v Speaker 1>way more valuable, have much more revenue, many more clients,

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<v Speaker 1>and yet they are all still private. The question is why,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's many reasons why. One of them could be

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<v Speaker 1>that the CEO does not want to have secondary shares trading.

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<v Speaker 1>The CEO wants to have very strict control over who

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<v Speaker 1>are their shareholders.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode is brought to you by Treasure. Treasure makes

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a big fan of this hardware wallet. So if

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<v Speaker 2>you'd like to learn more, visit the link in the description. Hey, folks,

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<v Speaker 2>welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward,

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<v Speaker 2>and we are recording at Station three in New York's

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<v Speaker 2>Financial District. And my guest is you've all Ruse, who

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<v Speaker 2>is the co founder and CEO of blockchain firm Digital Asset.

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<v Speaker 2>You've all great to have.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, it's great to be here. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>You've all. You're only a few blocks away from here.

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<v Speaker 2>We're down in Wall Street, right in front of the

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<v Speaker 2>Charging Bull, and you're building a solution for banks and

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<v Speaker 2>trad fi to be able to tokenize and build different

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<v Speaker 2>things on blockchain. It's great to have you and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>looking forward to learning more. Absolutely, let's kick it off

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<v Speaker 2>with your background. Where are you from, where'd you grow

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<v Speaker 2>up and how'd you get into the blockchain space?

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<v Speaker 1>So I was born in Houston, Texas, but you probably

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<v Speaker 1>can tell from my accent because I didn't grow up there.

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<v Speaker 1>I grew up in Israel, and then I came to

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<v Speaker 1>study electrical engineering in the US at Georgia Tech. And

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<v Speaker 1>then from there I started my career at Citadel, moved

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<v Speaker 1>to DRW Trading, which is the company behind Cumberland Mining,

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<v Speaker 1>and then Digital Asset. Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Along the way, where did you discover bitcoin and crypto?

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<v Speaker 2>And what was your aha moment?

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<v Speaker 1>You know? Interesting, I was making markets and ETFs and

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<v Speaker 1>at that time I wanted to do something a bit

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<v Speaker 1>more entrepreneurial, and I was very lucky to have you know, working,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, for Don Wilson, the founder of DERW. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's how DEERW Ventures got started. And really you can

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<v Speaker 1>think of DEERW Ventures as kind of an investment arm

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<v Speaker 1>of DEERW And as you can imagine, things that they

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<v Speaker 1>would be comfortable investing are things that have some kind

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<v Speaker 1>of a tangent or some kind of relationship to Deerw's

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<v Speaker 1>core business. Now, DERW is a trading firm, and today

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<v Speaker 1>it's much more than just a trading firm. They trade

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much every asset class, but they also make investments,

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<v Speaker 1>they do real estate, they do a lot of things.

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<v Speaker 1>But roughly at the year that we started the ventures,

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<v Speaker 1>team Dew start making markets in bitcoin and that's how

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Cumberland got started Cumberland Mining and already in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty thirteen, remember, we started looking at investments in the space.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I led around in a company that wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to allow credit card purchases of bitcoin in twenty thirteen. Wow,

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<v Speaker 1>so early, way too early, way too early. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean that's that was just kind of the foray

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<v Speaker 1>into the space. And then just started thinking about the

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<v Speaker 1>space more generally. We started thinking about what would clearing

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<v Speaker 1>for bitcoin look like twenty thirteen, fourteen, Yeah, all kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of things like that, And yeah, that's that's just how

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<v Speaker 1>I got into the space.

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<v Speaker 2>That's amazing. You're you're an og I mean, twenty thirteen,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty fourteen and looking to build these incredible products. Do

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<v Speaker 2>you see trad fys, you know, rally or moving into

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<v Speaker 2>this industry as a natural evolution of financial markets?

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, and you know again, you know, definitely fourteen was

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<v Speaker 1>too early for some of the things that we're doing today.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, if you really like, I put bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>for me is a unique asset class, and I put

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<v Speaker 1>it in its own category by itself, and I part

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<v Speaker 1>that aside. But when you start thinking about smart contract chains, really,

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<v Speaker 1>what are they trying to do is a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>them will say we are the new financial rails. And

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<v Speaker 1>the aha moment or the point where you get excited

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<v Speaker 1>is if you actually start thinking about what does it

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<v Speaker 1>mean to do a securitized loan in the real world?

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<v Speaker 1>And for those that don't know, what is a securitized

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<v Speaker 1>loan is I want to get a loan, and in

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<v Speaker 1>return for that loan or to secure that loan, I

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<v Speaker 1>give some kind of an asset to kind of guarantee

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<v Speaker 1>the loan in case, you know, I don't make good

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<v Speaker 1>and the loan. The best example that most people would

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<v Speaker 1>know about is a mortgage. A mortgage is a securitized loan.

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<v Speaker 1>You effectively pledge your title of your house that if

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<v Speaker 1>you don't repay the mortgage, the lender can can take

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<v Speaker 1>over your house and hopefully sell it and cover cover

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<v Speaker 1>the loan. And that's just one example, but there's there's

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<v Speaker 1>many other examples, and and those things usually require you know,

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<v Speaker 1>lawyers and back office and middle office and just quite

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<v Speaker 1>an enormous amount of costs associate, and then you look

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<v Speaker 1>at ave and you're like, oh, I'm just going to

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<v Speaker 1>pay a few pennies dollars to pay for gas fees,

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<v Speaker 1>and voila, I perfected a security into a secured you know,

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<v Speaker 1>secured loan. So I think that, like, if you just

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<v Speaker 1>look at the chasm that exists between these two examples,

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<v Speaker 1>this is kind of what we wanted to feel like.

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<v Speaker 1>Our view is that's where tradify and crypto come is

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<v Speaker 1>really just saying like, can we actually do all of

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<v Speaker 1>this activity that we do today at a fraction of

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<v Speaker 1>the costs and when the front, when the cost goes down,

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<v Speaker 1>are we introducing new products that till today we just

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't even imagine would be financially feasible to do?

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<v Speaker 2>And also is it expanding the markets to be more

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<v Speaker 2>global as well? Because certain assets are not accessible to

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<v Speaker 2>certain people in different countries or jurisdictions, but if you

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<v Speaker 2>put them in a tokenized format, it brings in more liquidity,

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<v Speaker 2>more bridges, and so forth.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I think that all of these things are

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<v Speaker 1>back to the same problem that I just stated. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's just taking a different lens. I mean, if you,

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to do if you and again I'm

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<v Speaker 1>coming at it purely from you're not trying to do

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<v Speaker 1>that because of a regulatory arbitrage. Let's just put that.

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<v Speaker 1>Put that aside, like you're actually trying to do all

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<v Speaker 1>the activity according to the rules, like because I think

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<v Speaker 1>that there's there's a lot of regulatory arbitrage that happens

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<v Speaker 1>in the space, and there's no there's no necessarily a view.

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<v Speaker 1>But even if you're trying to do things in a

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<v Speaker 1>regulatory compliance manner, if you just take some kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a developing country, the amount of cost that it would

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<v Speaker 1>take you to actually offer the product is again extremely expensive.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's back to my point about financially feasible. So

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<v Speaker 1>the short answer to your question is absolutely, yes, it

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<v Speaker 1>does break the barriers, but I think it comes from

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<v Speaker 1>the same place. I think that the cost of distribution

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<v Speaker 1>as a result of this technology goes dramatically down right

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<v Speaker 1>as a result of how easy it is to do

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<v Speaker 1>things that that by itself allows many more people that

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<v Speaker 1>till today we're not able to make investments in all

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of assets. Now it's possible. I'll give another example,

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<v Speaker 1>even within the United States. I mean, there are a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of products that when you actually start thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>what is the cost of putting a trade purely from

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<v Speaker 1>a processing perspective, unless the trade is in significant amount

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<v Speaker 1>of dollars, it's just not The economics is not there.

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<v Speaker 1>So again, the reason why you know, Robin Hood and

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<v Speaker 1>the likes were able to offer you know, zero commission

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<v Speaker 1>trades and equities is because equities have become so efficiently

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<v Speaker 1>the trading a thousand shares versus one hundred shares versus

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<v Speaker 1>fifty shares versus half a share. From a marginal cost perspective,

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<v Speaker 1>we're just the same. So you know, you could actually, again,

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<v Speaker 1>like I said, come up with new business models that

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<v Speaker 1>till today, we're just not feasible. So yes, it breaks

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<v Speaker 1>the barriers internationally. But I actually think that there's a

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<v Speaker 1>good amount of asset classes or use cases even within

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<v Speaker 1>the United States that today would not be very accessible

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<v Speaker 1>to a lot of people, that potentially a few years

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<v Speaker 1>from now would be very much accessible.

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<v Speaker 2>Would an example be like the Empire state building getting

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<v Speaker 2>tokenized and people being able to invest in that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, and no. I think that a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>times people confuse the reason why certain things don't trade

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<v Speaker 1>and they think it's just because they haven't been tokenized yet.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll give an example. There's many cases why a private

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<v Speaker 1>company is private. A lot of it has to do

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<v Speaker 1>with the CEO just doesn't want it to be publicly traded.

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<v Speaker 1>There are many companies in the private space that, technically speaking,

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<v Speaker 1>if you compare them to a lot of publicly traded companies,

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<v Speaker 1>are way more valuable, have much more revenue, many more clients,

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<v Speaker 1>and yet they are all still private. And the question

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<v Speaker 1>is why. And there's many reasons why. One of them

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<v Speaker 1>could be that the CEO does not want to have

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<v Speaker 1>secondary shares trading. The CEO wants to have very strict

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<v Speaker 1>control over who are their shareholders, right like, There's many reasons.

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<v Speaker 1>So just because I tokenize a private company doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 1>that I have changed the paradigm of why that happened.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's why I come at it from. We want

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<v Speaker 1>to make transactions from a cost perspective as close as

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<v Speaker 1>possible to zero, and it opens options to do things

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<v Speaker 1>that today would be very expensive. And your example was

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<v Speaker 1>a very good example. So if the owner of the

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<v Speaker 1>Empire State Building wanted to allow random Joshmo being their

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<v Speaker 1>owners and wanted to allow very easy, simple cheap trading

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<v Speaker 1>around ownership of Empire State Building, it's a great opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>and you could do that. Then you could access liquidity

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<v Speaker 1>globally in all of the things that we just discussed.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's because the owner of the Empire State Building

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to do that, right, And I think that sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>people think that it's like the reason it's not happening,

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<v Speaker 1>it's because it hasn't been tokenized yet, and that's just

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<v Speaker 1>not true.

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<v Speaker 2>And then there also has to be demand for the asset,

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<v Speaker 2>right because New York Manhattan prime real estate values always

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<v Speaker 2>going up. I don't necessarily want to have farmland in Alabama,

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<v Speaker 2>but I want a building that's being built in a

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<v Speaker 2>scarce environment exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that that's just normal normal. This is not Again,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that a lot of those things sometimes people

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<v Speaker 1>conflate them that it's because it hasn't been tokenized yet

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<v Speaker 1>or digitize it, and I just think that it's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like similar to what I was saying, there's market

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<v Speaker 1>dynamics that are independent of has it been tokenized or not,

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<v Speaker 1>is there a supply demand for it? I think that

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<v Speaker 1>maybe the positive side of the argument is I think

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<v Speaker 1>that if you look at composability and some of the business,

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<v Speaker 1>this goes back to the business model, right, Like, if

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<v Speaker 1>you create something like a token, it's not just the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that you could buy and sell the asset more efficiently,

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<v Speaker 1>but now I can actually pledge maybe my ownership of

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<v Speaker 1>the Empire State Building is collateral against the loan, and

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<v Speaker 1>I can do a lot of other things that it's

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<v Speaker 1>just beyond just trading. So I think that there's there

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<v Speaker 1>is a lot of positive on one side. I just

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying like a lot of times the owners

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<v Speaker 1>of these assets or these companies look at the whole

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<v Speaker 1>equation and it's not just because of tokenization that they

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<v Speaker 1>didn't do something like a private equity firm could allow

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<v Speaker 1>their LPs to trade their shares or their LP holdings

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<v Speaker 1>if they wanted. I don't think that that's a very complicated,

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<v Speaker 1>complicated thing to do. Yet they haven't done that, and

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<v Speaker 1>in many cases there are reasons why they haven't done that,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's not just because blockchain wasn't available.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. Tell us about digital asset,

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<v Speaker 2>why you decide to start to firm and what your

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<v Speaker 2>mission is.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, I think that the view and why we call

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<v Speaker 1>the company what it is is because at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the day, we believe that we're already there. But

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<v Speaker 1>I think that it will even get more in that direction.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that everything in the world will have a digital

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<v Speaker 1>asset representing its value commodities. Right, so you have on

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<v Speaker 1>one spectrum data. Data is becoming kind of like the

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<v Speaker 1>new asset class, and data only exists for the most

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<v Speaker 1>part in digital form, but all the way to commodities, right,

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<v Speaker 1>like even commodities, right Like, you're not you're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to today. I mean you trade commodities, you know, exchanges,

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<v Speaker 1>you're not actually moving the physical asset. In some cases

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<v Speaker 1>there's physical delivery, but most of the activity that happens

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<v Speaker 1>does not happen. So our view is that everything will

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<v Speaker 1>become a digital asset, and you know, we want it

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<v Speaker 1>to build a chain that will accommodate heterogeneous set of

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<v Speaker 1>users and applications. And I think that that's very important

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<v Speaker 1>because I think the crypto approach till today was we're

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<v Speaker 1>just going to tell the world how it should operate

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<v Speaker 1>and either you fit into that into that mold or

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<v Speaker 1>you owned and as a result of that, it really

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<v Speaker 1>kind of created not that you don't have a heterogeneous users.

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<v Speaker 1>You do have heterogeneous users, but the way they use

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<v Speaker 1>chains is very homogeneous, which means that if I'm regulated

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<v Speaker 1>or I need privacy, I really have to do a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of things off chain because I don't have a

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<v Speaker 1>solution for it.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. Well, with that said, I know there are different

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<v Speaker 2>innovations happening, such as zero knowledge proof where you can

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<v Speaker 2>use certain public blockchains and have that in place. Do

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<v Speaker 2>you think it's not up to part yet? That's why

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<v Speaker 2>you guys built a Canton network.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, I have this discussion. I was just

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<v Speaker 1>two three weeks ago, I was on a panel at

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<v Speaker 1>a conference about privacy and the reality is so, first

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<v Speaker 1>of all, maybe full disclosure, one of my co founders

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<v Speaker 1>is was on the research team that created zero knowledge

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<v Speaker 1>for us. I mean, he was one of the authors

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<v Speaker 1>of one of the libraries that is being used today, Zerologist.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not that we don't have admiration and respect

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<v Speaker 1>for the technology. I think that our view is if

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<v Speaker 1>you take zero knowledge proofs as they are, which is

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<v Speaker 1>effectively a black box where you just trust the output

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<v Speaker 1>without having a need to look at the inputs. That's

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<v Speaker 1>our interpretation of what zero knowledge is is that if

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<v Speaker 1>you are a regulate identity, I just don't see how

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<v Speaker 1>within the next five years they get comfortable saying I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just going to accept that I don't get to see

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<v Speaker 1>the activity that has happened. Let's say I'm a stable

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<v Speaker 1>coin provider. I don't get to see if there's aml

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<v Speaker 1>or activity happening in my black box. I'm just accepting

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<v Speaker 1>that all the transactions are fine, or I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if there's a bug inside my black box because the

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<v Speaker 1>output just keeps on saying that everything's fine. And that

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<v Speaker 1>happened already twice it happened. See cash had that bug,

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<v Speaker 1>Solana had that bug, And I just think that it's

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<v Speaker 1>a serious risk and the integrity of your ledger if

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<v Speaker 1>that's if that's the case, So we just we just

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to come up with a different architecture that says

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<v Speaker 1>that to us, privacy is not how do you hide

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<v Speaker 1>the inputs from everyone, but it's actually how do you

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<v Speaker 1>have a disclosure on a need to know basis? Meaning

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<v Speaker 1>if I need to see the inputs because I actually

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<v Speaker 1>I have a regulatory requirement to verify that there's no

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<v Speaker 1>AML happening, or I need to see the inputs because

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<v Speaker 1>I'm an issue of an asset I need and I

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<v Speaker 1>need to make sure that there's integrity for the asset

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<v Speaker 1>that I am supposedly the issuer of. Then I need

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<v Speaker 1>to see all the transactions. I cannot have someone not

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<v Speaker 1>I cannot not see the transactions. Or if I need

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<v Speaker 1>to disclose some of the activity to regulator because I

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<v Speaker 1>now want to comply with the Genius Act or with MICA,

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<v Speaker 1>I can do that. And for the most part, what

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<v Speaker 1>you will see is that a lot of the zero

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge solutions now are effectively creating some kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>disclosure mechanism to selected parties. And then I say, well,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're doing that, why are you using zero knowledge.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not that we're against the technology. That we're

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<v Speaker 1>actually very much in favor of the technology when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to scaling. That's actually a really good place to

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<v Speaker 1>use the technology. It's just that our view is that

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to have Ledger integrity under all scenarios,

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<v Speaker 1>or you want to comply with the regulation, you need

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<v Speaker 1>to have selective disclosure, and we think that you can

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<v Speaker 1>design an l one protocol with selective disclosure without having

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<v Speaker 1>to use zero knowledge, which is expensive computationally does not

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<v Speaker 1>have a general purpose programming language, like there's all kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of things and you could just do something today.

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<v Speaker 2>So on a note continuing on our top big why

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<v Speaker 2>Canton network give us the details of the blockchain? So

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<v Speaker 2>layer one does it have a token? How are you

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<v Speaker 2>achieving the consensus? What type of protocols are using?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so the network does have a token, which hopefully

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<v Speaker 1>we'll be listed later this year. The idea of the

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<v Speaker 1>token is a utility token in the network. I think

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<v Speaker 1>there's a few elements that I think are very unique

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<v Speaker 1>to Canton that are different and we'll talk about We

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<v Speaker 1>did a fair launch. We didn't do a pre mine.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, very uncrypto of us not to kind of

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<v Speaker 1>sit on the entire float of the coin, but we

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<v Speaker 1>thought that that would be much more palatable if you

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<v Speaker 1>want to bring large institutional players with you. And so

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<v Speaker 1>far it seems like it's working, but the consensus of

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<v Speaker 1>the network is kind of broken into two layers, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's kind of how you solve for privacy. There is

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<v Speaker 1>what we would call the supervalidators on canton, which is

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<v Speaker 1>the equivalent of miners or validators on ethereum. They're blinded

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<v Speaker 1>to the transactions that they're processing. So their job is

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<v Speaker 1>to timestem transactions, be censorship resistance meaning no validator can

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<v Speaker 1>sensor transactions, and a guarantee that all stakeholders to a

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<v Speaker 1>transaction have received their transaction. So the reason for that

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<v Speaker 1>is that let me actually go to the next layer

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<v Speaker 1>of consensus and then and then we'll come back. Then

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<v Speaker 1>there's a second layer of consensus, which we're saying if

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<v Speaker 1>you are the stakeholder of the transaction, it's really the

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<v Speaker 1>end parties that need to agree on the business logic. Meaning,

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<v Speaker 1>if if I want to process a stable coin transaction

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<v Speaker 1>and I have a sender or receiver sending a coin

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<v Speaker 1>to one another, most people that hold the coin don't

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<v Speaker 1>really need to know that that transaction took place. They

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<v Speaker 1>don't care that right, it's not relevant to them, it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't have an impact. What they want to know is

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<v Speaker 1>that they have consensus between them and the issuer. So

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<v Speaker 1>in that case of the transaction, there will be consensus

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<v Speaker 1>that this is a valid transaction between the issuer of

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<v Speaker 1>the stable coin, the sender, and the receiver, and the

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<v Speaker 1>network can dynamically create these subgroups of consensus across the

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<v Speaker 1>stakeholders of a very specific transaction. Maybe the best analogy

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<v Speaker 1>for that is think about like the network is creating

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<v Speaker 1>dynamically these L twos just for a specific transaction. So

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<v Speaker 1>it just says, hey, just for this specific transaction, the

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<v Speaker 1>three of us, the four of us, the ten of us,

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<v Speaker 1>the thousand of us need to agree that this transaction

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<v Speaker 1>is a valid transaction, right, and canton can just dynamically

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<v Speaker 1>create these groups all the way to everybody on the chain.

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<v Speaker 1>So you could actually have public data where you're saying

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<v Speaker 1>everybody needs to agree. And this is kind of similar

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<v Speaker 1>to what happens and the thing or on bitcoin. But

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<v Speaker 1>the idea is that and this is where I go

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<v Speaker 1>back to my point about heterogeneous is it's not a

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<v Speaker 1>one size fit all and it's not kind of static.

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<v Speaker 1>Create an L on L two, and now I have

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<v Speaker 1>the group within this L two that don't have privacy

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<v Speaker 1>between one another. The reality is when you actually look

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<v Speaker 1>at the real world, the layers of privacy or the

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<v Speaker 1>privacy perimeter changes even through the life of a transaction.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll give you an example. When you send money, generally speaking,

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<v Speaker 1>you the sender and the receiver would know about the transaction.

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<v Speaker 1>The payment processor would know about the transaction. Let's say

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<v Speaker 1>you use the bank. The bank would know, the cender,

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<v Speaker 1>the receiver. Right. But then there's this line in the US,

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<v Speaker 1>it's called the Bank Secrecy Act that says, if you

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<v Speaker 1>send over ten thousand dollars, now the regulator needs to

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<v Speaker 1>know about the transaction. So here I gave you an example.

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<v Speaker 1>How yeah, most times only three people would know about

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<v Speaker 1>the transaction, but under circumstances, circumstances something you need for

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00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:05.039
<v Speaker 1>people to know about the transaction. So how do you

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<v Speaker 1>create something that is more dynamic that rather than the

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<v Speaker 1>chain is like I said, very static model. It's actually

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<v Speaker 1>the smart contract that tells the chain. I need you

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<v Speaker 1>to change the privacy model or the consensus dynamically based

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<v Speaker 1>on the state of the transaction. That's what really what

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<v Speaker 1>Canton does under the hood is the first layer of

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00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:30.960
<v Speaker 1>consensus is giving you the timestam guarantee, the censorship resistance,

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<v Speaker 1>but also this guarantee that I have disclosed the information

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<v Speaker 1>of the transaction to all the stakeholders that now need

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<v Speaker 1>to agree on the consensus, do we agree in the

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00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.240
<v Speaker 1>business logic of the transaction. And that's how the miners

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<v Speaker 1>or the supervalidators in Canton are actually blind to the

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00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:51.599
<v Speaker 1>transaction that are kind of like similar to the ISP's

404
00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:56.000
<v Speaker 1>on the Internet. They're just managing forwarding transactions for you

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<v Speaker 1>and giving you that guarantee.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you mentioned the groups that are formed these

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<v Speaker 2>dynamic transactions. Are they temporary or can they be open

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<v Speaker 2>for a long period of time?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh? No, They're open for a very long time. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because again that transaction could have multiple steps, So it's

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<v Speaker 1>not that you create really an L two and then

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<v Speaker 1>you kill it or anything. Those groups exist for for

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<v Speaker 1>a long time. But I just wanted to give kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like an e mental model to how it is.

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<v Speaker 2>So if Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan wanted to have

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<v Speaker 2>an open line for whatever transaction.

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<v Speaker 1>Set of transactions, yeah, that are the same in nature,

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<v Speaker 1>they will have it.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting who are the validators on the network? Is it

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<v Speaker 2>financial institutions?

421
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:43.680
<v Speaker 1>All of the above, both crypto firms and tratfi. Wow, yeah,

422
00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:44.599
<v Speaker 1>very interesting.

423
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:47.119
<v Speaker 2>I mentioned Goldman Sachs. I read that you guys raise

424
00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:49.440
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and thirty five million dollars led by Goldman

425
00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Sachs to Dodel Securities. Tell us about that fundraising and

426
00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:56.640
<v Speaker 2>you know why did they take a bet? Is it

427
00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:58.480
<v Speaker 2>because they see what you're doing and they agree with

428
00:24:58.519 --> 00:25:00.000
<v Speaker 2>the vision and they want to participate it.

429
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:02.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, So just before I forget, I just want

430
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:05.079
<v Speaker 1>to go back because I said one of the interesting things.

431
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:08.720
<v Speaker 1>The other thing about the tokeonomics of Canton that we

432
00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:12.920
<v Speaker 1>think is something that is really needed is when you

433
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.200
<v Speaker 1>think about a lot of the tokenomics of the networks

434
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:19.880
<v Speaker 1>that are out there today, they're effectively only rewarding the

435
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:22.839
<v Speaker 1>infrastructure providers. And at the end of the day, if

436
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:25.480
<v Speaker 1>you think about like the end of time for a chain,

437
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:28.200
<v Speaker 1>most of the value is actually coming from the users

438
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:31.799
<v Speaker 1>and the applications. It's not from the infrastructure providers, right,

439
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:34.319
<v Speaker 1>Like it's you know, it's not the it's not the

440
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:38.839
<v Speaker 1>validator on ethereum that goes to conferences and think about

441
00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:42.599
<v Speaker 1>new business model. It's right, it's it's Stanni from Ave

442
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:45.599
<v Speaker 1>who goes at I just was at a Goldman conference

443
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:48.160
<v Speaker 1>with him, so shout out because what he built is amazing.

444
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.880
<v Speaker 1>But like he goes to conferences, he thinks about new

445
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:53.119
<v Speaker 1>business model. He pays for developers to build a new

446
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:56.759
<v Speaker 1>smart contract, like he's doing a lot of the hard work.

447
00:25:57.319 --> 00:26:00.960
<v Speaker 1>And I think that like if people like him did

448
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:04.839
<v Speaker 1>not exist, there is no value to an l one, right.

449
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:09.440
<v Speaker 1>So the toconomics of Canton in the early days rewarded

450
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:11.920
<v Speaker 1>the infrastructure providers because if they were not there, you

451
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:17.160
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have the infrastructure. But actually over time the toconomics

452
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:20.880
<v Speaker 1>shifts to reward the users and the apps, so most

453
00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:23.480
<v Speaker 1>of the block rewards would actually go to the user

454
00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:26.880
<v Speaker 1>and the applications that generate the activity on the network.

455
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.160
<v Speaker 1>And I think that that's you know, really helping the

456
00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:33.319
<v Speaker 1>organic growth of Canton because a lot of businesses are saying, well,

457
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:35.559
<v Speaker 1>if I'm going to build a business, to think about

458
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:39.119
<v Speaker 1>it like interchange on credit cards or right, like so

459
00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:42.920
<v Speaker 1>MasterCard and Visa don't get most of the interchange. It's

460
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.920
<v Speaker 1>the card issue where it's the card processors those that

461
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:49.240
<v Speaker 1>actually generate the activity that get most of the interchange.

462
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:53.200
<v Speaker 1>And Visa MasterCard benefits because it's a it's a scale business, right,

463
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:56.240
<v Speaker 1>so there's a ton of volume, but they are not

464
00:26:56.279 --> 00:27:00.599
<v Speaker 1>the ones you know, going and making the activity happened

465
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:02.799
<v Speaker 1>at a high level. So that's I just think was

466
00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:05.839
<v Speaker 1>a very unique, unique approach and you know, it's it's

467
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:09.319
<v Speaker 1>evolving and it's it's interesting to see people really trying

468
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:13.599
<v Speaker 1>to take advantage of it in the Canton ecosystem. To

469
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:17.799
<v Speaker 1>the fundraise, so we actually raised. The initial announcement was

470
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:22.720
<v Speaker 1>one thirty five, but then easy uh CZ's family office

471
00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:26.000
<v Speaker 1>joint so it's one forty five was the official official

472
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:29.440
<v Speaker 1>number and it was led by Cumberland and Trade Web

473
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:34.079
<v Speaker 1>that's who led it. But but the likes of Citadel Securities, Goldman,

474
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:43.240
<v Speaker 1>BNP I, MC, Optaverer, DTCC Circle, Paxos Republic and sorry

475
00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:47.559
<v Speaker 1>for Lot. Yeah, those that have missed have participated. And

476
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:51.480
<v Speaker 1>I think that what they've seen and you know, not

477
00:27:51.799 --> 00:27:53.599
<v Speaker 1>going to talk on their behalf, but I think what

478
00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:56.440
<v Speaker 1>they've seen is again kind of back to where we

479
00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:02.079
<v Speaker 1>started this is there's now activity that is happening on

480
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:06.720
<v Speaker 1>Canton that is really kind of like this intersection of

481
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:10.799
<v Speaker 1>we can bring crypto based activity into trad fi markets

482
00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:15.160
<v Speaker 1>and when you think about that, like just yesterday we

483
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:19.759
<v Speaker 1>announced with DTCC the first you know, unchained treasury and

484
00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:25.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying it very carefully not tokenized treasury, but it

485
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:28.799
<v Speaker 1>was a repot transaction on a Saturday between US Treasuries

486
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:33.880
<v Speaker 1>and USDC on an application built by trade Web. So

487
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:36.240
<v Speaker 1>trade Web effectively built like you could think about it

488
00:28:36.279 --> 00:28:39.119
<v Speaker 1>like a uniswap or whatever, a dex or however you

489
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:43.720
<v Speaker 1>want to think about it, they build effectively a very

490
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:50.799
<v Speaker 1>you know, very efficient way to swap assets. It's really

491
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:55.240
<v Speaker 1>a securitized loan that's a repot transaction. And now a

492
00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:58.359
<v Speaker 1>market maker can go into the weekend with a yield

493
00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:03.000
<v Speaker 1>bearing asset not tokenized meaning they're not taking some intermediary

494
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:05.759
<v Speaker 1>counterparty risk of a broker dealer that token is, but

495
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:11.480
<v Speaker 1>actually a treasury held at the DTCC holding the yield

496
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:14.680
<v Speaker 1>into the weekend, and if now suddenly there's some spike

497
00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:17.720
<v Speaker 1>in crypto market in real time, they can convert their

498
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:22.119
<v Speaker 1>US treasuries into a stable coin, do their cryptoactivity, and

499
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:25.880
<v Speaker 1>when they're done with it again, you know, return return

500
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:28.519
<v Speaker 1>the long back and get their US treasuries and you

501
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:34.759
<v Speaker 1>could really like really like laser precision manage the yield

502
00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:38.519
<v Speaker 1>on your asset and then when you again take a

503
00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:41.240
<v Speaker 1>step back, because we're kind of very like day to

504
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:43.359
<v Speaker 1>day looking at crypto market, but if you just look

505
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:47.599
<v Speaker 1>at the US Treasury market from a repo perspective, I

506
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:52.039
<v Speaker 1>think it's about five trillion dollar volume a day, just

507
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:54.519
<v Speaker 1>put it in perspective, and I think globally it's about

508
00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:57.240
<v Speaker 1>ten trillion a day. So I just think that when

509
00:29:57.279 --> 00:29:59.839
<v Speaker 1>you start kind of saying, like, hey, if I can

510
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:03.680
<v Speaker 1>ring you know the avis or the decks as the

511
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:07.680
<v Speaker 1>uniswaps to these kind of volumes, I think that that's

512
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:10.119
<v Speaker 1>really the big opportunity. And this is why you're seeing

513
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:14.039
<v Speaker 1>everybody's talking about token is securities now, and that's that's

514
00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:17.119
<v Speaker 1>really where where I think that the real, the real

515
00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:18.000
<v Speaker 1>pot of gold is.

516
00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:21.039
<v Speaker 2>What would you say to some critics who and this

517
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:23.279
<v Speaker 2>may not matter to you because you're working with institutions,

518
00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:27.279
<v Speaker 2>not the general public, but may say, Okay, I value decentralization,

519
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:31.079
<v Speaker 2>You're not decentralized enough. But it doesn't. But again go

520
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:33.640
<v Speaker 2>back to my initial point, that's not necessarily valid. If

521
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:36.240
<v Speaker 2>the institutions have the consensus.

522
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:38.839
<v Speaker 1>I would I would. I would like the critics to

523
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:42.400
<v Speaker 1>tell me, uh, if they know of a more decentralized

524
00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:45.960
<v Speaker 1>network than Canton. And I'm actually that serious. I mean,

525
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:48.400
<v Speaker 1>if you look at all of these L two's that

526
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:51.519
<v Speaker 1>are popping up or even these quote unquote l ones

527
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:55.160
<v Speaker 1>that are being announced. They run an as centralized sequencer.

528
00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:58.799
<v Speaker 1>Sure everybody can deploy their smart contract to it. But

529
00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:04.599
<v Speaker 1>if organization that run a centralized sequencer decided I don't

530
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:09.599
<v Speaker 1>want you here anymore, they get booted out without any questions.

531
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:12.559
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know. I mean, we run today, it's

532
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:17.759
<v Speaker 1>probably close to thirty supervalidators that are all equal in importance.

533
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:22.519
<v Speaker 1>There is no supernodes that you know are much more

534
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:25.799
<v Speaker 1>important for the consensus. There is no proof, you know,

535
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:29.319
<v Speaker 1>proof of steak like I matter more. So I don't know.

536
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:31.759
<v Speaker 1>I mean you could, you could, you could, you could

537
00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:35.160
<v Speaker 1>go into this rabbit hole, and I don't because what

538
00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:36.839
<v Speaker 1>does it matter At the end of the day. What

539
00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:41.039
<v Speaker 1>people are looking for is a system that works, uh,

540
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:44.759
<v Speaker 1>and I think will give you know, the value that

541
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:49.119
<v Speaker 1>people are looking for and the soundness of the assets

542
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:51.319
<v Speaker 1>that exist there, and that, to me is a much

543
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:53.279
<v Speaker 1>more important thing. And that's why you know, the un

544
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:56.680
<v Speaker 1>chained security to me is an important deal. Is we're

545
00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:00.799
<v Speaker 1>not tokenizing anything, You're actually holding the asset. You don't

546
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:04.720
<v Speaker 1>need to say, what do you have in your broker dealer?

547
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:07.960
<v Speaker 1>Do I now need to wait for you know, PwC

548
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:10.640
<v Speaker 1>or Deloitte to do an audit of what you have

549
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:15.519
<v Speaker 1>in off chain in supposedly your broker dealer account and

550
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:18.599
<v Speaker 1>do I trade a derivative on the product or do

551
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:21.119
<v Speaker 1>I not? Is it a total return swap? Is it

552
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:23.799
<v Speaker 1>a future contract? Like? What is it exactly? And I

553
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:26.720
<v Speaker 1>think that for the most part, the retail client they

554
00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:29.079
<v Speaker 1>just want to have access. I think the problem is

555
00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:31.640
<v Speaker 1>if something were to blow up, and there have been

556
00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:36.839
<v Speaker 1>a few RWA projects that I won't mention that did

557
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:41.359
<v Speaker 1>blow up because they made a lot of statements about

558
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:44.039
<v Speaker 1>what it is that you're trading and then you found

559
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:48.079
<v Speaker 1>out and that wasn't really it. So you know, I

560
00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:52.039
<v Speaker 1>think that, you know, critics of decentralization for the most part,

561
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:56.000
<v Speaker 1>are coming at it from what bags they hold angle

562
00:32:56.839 --> 00:33:00.599
<v Speaker 1>and not necessarily from being really pureist about the centralization,

563
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:03.000
<v Speaker 1>because I will tell you the crypto community right now

564
00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:07.160
<v Speaker 1>is who arab behind a lot of L one announcements

565
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:11.319
<v Speaker 1>or L two announcement that have a centralized sequencer controlled

566
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:15.640
<v Speaker 1>by one company, Yet they don't go and you know,

567
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:17.880
<v Speaker 1>scream decentralization.

568
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, now that's how it goes into crypto market. Bag holders,

569
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:25.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, trying to push their narratives, and that's fair.

570
00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:28.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean to me, that's actually okay, that's that's fine.

571
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:31.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, no different than companies. You know, the job

572
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:35.400
<v Speaker 1>of the CEO and their investor is to you know,

573
00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:38.400
<v Speaker 1>share their their investment. That's totally fine.

574
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. Can you list the different use cases that institutions

575
00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:45.759
<v Speaker 2>can use the Canton network for is stable coins, it

576
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:47.119
<v Speaker 2>can go through the list of items.

577
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean I can tell you what assets currently

578
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:54.680
<v Speaker 1>exist on you know, within the Canton ecosystem. I think

579
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:57.480
<v Speaker 1>that you mentioned in the beginning that this is for

580
00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:00.599
<v Speaker 1>banks and institutional players. I don't I don't agree on

581
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:06.400
<v Speaker 1>that statement, mainly because we have gone after those players

582
00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:09.480
<v Speaker 1>because at the end of the day, those can bring

583
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:14.360
<v Speaker 1>the highest amount of assets to be consumed on the network. Right,

584
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:18.599
<v Speaker 1>So if you again look at the DTCC or we're

585
00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:22.360
<v Speaker 1>working with I Capital or you know, life insurance or

586
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.400
<v Speaker 1>mortgage company. Like, if you look at all of these

587
00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:30.239
<v Speaker 1>large institutions, they are in control of a significant amount

588
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:34.800
<v Speaker 1>of assets that if those assets became natively available on chain,

589
00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:38.800
<v Speaker 1>a lot of builders can come and build products both

590
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:42.639
<v Speaker 1>for institutional players but also for retail, right, I mean

591
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:44.800
<v Speaker 1>at the end of the day. I mean, you know,

592
00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:50.519
<v Speaker 1>it is large institutions that control the equity market, but

593
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:54.320
<v Speaker 1>retail are very interested in token is securities or on

594
00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:56.960
<v Speaker 1>chain securities, however you want to call it, right, So

595
00:34:57.559 --> 00:34:59.639
<v Speaker 1>it's not that it's not that we've built this, but

596
00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:03.159
<v Speaker 1>believe that at the end of the day, if you

597
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:09.519
<v Speaker 1>can pass the smell test with large regulated institutions, you're

598
00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:13.480
<v Speaker 1>also kind of creating a moat around these are where

599
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:16.119
<v Speaker 1>you have the safe assets that it's not going to

600
00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:19.599
<v Speaker 1>have like a rug pool or something like that. Like that,

601
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:23.719
<v Speaker 1>that's really the motivation to go the harder out is

602
00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:28.239
<v Speaker 1>because you can create much more longevity and trust trust

603
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:33.039
<v Speaker 1>in it. That's really so listen, I think that you know,

604
00:35:33.079 --> 00:35:35.800
<v Speaker 1>we just may the announce it around US treasuries mainly

605
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:41.199
<v Speaker 1>because again more of like the twenty eighty rule, with

606
00:35:41.480 --> 00:35:44.360
<v Speaker 1>just twenty percent of participant, you could get an insane

607
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:47.400
<v Speaker 1>amount of volume on chain, which is really what everybody's

608
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:49.719
<v Speaker 1>trying to do. They're trying to bring as much activity.

609
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:52.119
<v Speaker 1>And I will say that when you look at at

610
00:35:54.159 --> 00:35:59.679
<v Speaker 1>institutional use cases to begin with, during bear markets and

611
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:05.039
<v Speaker 1>not just cryptobear markets, actual markets, the repo market is

612
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:07.840
<v Speaker 1>still ten trillion dollars a day. It doesn't go like

613
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:10.599
<v Speaker 1>from ten trillion it goes down to three, you know,

614
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:13.880
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't happen. So I also think that you create

615
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:18.320
<v Speaker 1>much better longevity to the chain that you are effectively

616
00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:21.360
<v Speaker 1>hedging your activity that you're not going to just be like,

617
00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:25.559
<v Speaker 1>we definitely want to have retail active on Canton and

618
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:29.000
<v Speaker 1>we want to benefit from, you know, these trends in markets,

619
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:32.199
<v Speaker 1>but you also want to give retail like the confidence

620
00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:35.280
<v Speaker 1>that hey, by the way, when bad stuff will happen,

621
00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:39.119
<v Speaker 1>and it will happen a question when, right, there's actually

622
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:42.280
<v Speaker 1>substantial activity that is not going to go away, right

623
00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:44.719
<v Speaker 1>because it's still going to be mission critical to some

624
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:48.559
<v Speaker 1>of the players that are participating. So you know, yeah,

625
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:52.360
<v Speaker 1>there is no NFTs or meme coin trading on Canton,

626
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:56.000
<v Speaker 1>not because you can do that, but just we haven't

627
00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:59.159
<v Speaker 1>focus and we just didn't think that that is going

628
00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:01.400
<v Speaker 1>to be our difference right now.

629
00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:04.679
<v Speaker 2>Well said, And I have my own personal feelings love

630
00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:07.960
<v Speaker 2>hate relationship with meme coins and that market, but it

631
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:08.360
<v Speaker 2>is what.

632
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:12.559
<v Speaker 1>No judgment, honestly like it. It's like it's like you

633
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:17.119
<v Speaker 1>build a tech company and you're gonna have ideas of

634
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:19.679
<v Speaker 1>what is your tech good for and what is it

635
00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:22.280
<v Speaker 1>not great for? But at the end of the day,

636
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:28.079
<v Speaker 1>like I personally don't don't do gambling, but at the

637
00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:29.800
<v Speaker 1>end of the day, I view it as a bona

638
00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:33.039
<v Speaker 1>fide activity and people do that and there's interest and

639
00:37:33.079 --> 00:37:36.039
<v Speaker 1>there's demand for it. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna

640
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:40.119
<v Speaker 1>judge and everything. I personally don't trade meme coins, but

641
00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:42.760
<v Speaker 1>not because I have necessarily a negative opinion about it.

642
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:46.639
<v Speaker 2>Right, So on that note, and in addition to what

643
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:49.760
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned earlier about transactions happening over new weekends, with

644
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:52.280
<v Speaker 2>this technology, it will allow for twenty four to seven,

645
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:56.199
<v Speaker 2>three hundred and sixty five day markets, no opening or closing,

646
00:37:56.199 --> 00:37:59.280
<v Speaker 2>bell nu moral holidays and these things. What is is

647
00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:02.400
<v Speaker 2>that the future markets and these different Not every asset

648
00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:04.480
<v Speaker 2>will trade like that, but a lot of it will.

649
00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:09.159
<v Speaker 1>Is that the future. So I'm not going to give you,

650
00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:11.760
<v Speaker 1>like necessarily a prediction, but yeah, I think that the

651
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:15.840
<v Speaker 1>ability to move value twenty four to seven is in

652
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:18.000
<v Speaker 1>our future. And the reason I stated it that way

653
00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:20.400
<v Speaker 1>and purpose you said no opening bill, no closing bil

654
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:24.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean, listen, I think that there are there's value

655
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:27.960
<v Speaker 1>in a lot of that activity that happens in markets today.

656
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Like a lot of times, I'll give you another example.

657
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:33.760
<v Speaker 1>A lot of times people will say, when everything moves

658
00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:39.320
<v Speaker 1>on blockchain, everything's going to settle real time. And if

659
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:41.519
<v Speaker 1>you peel the onion a bit and you kind of

660
00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:45.559
<v Speaker 1>understand how markets work, you understand that the reason why

661
00:38:45.639 --> 00:38:49.079
<v Speaker 1>things are so cheap to trade right now is because

662
00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:52.559
<v Speaker 1>market makers are willing to give you really tight spreads,

663
00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:55.719
<v Speaker 1>really tight spreads. But you now need to understand what

664
00:38:55.800 --> 00:38:58.639
<v Speaker 1>are the economics for market makers. A market maker is

665
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:02.400
<v Speaker 1>effectively selling you in insurance because they're willing to take

666
00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:05.239
<v Speaker 1>both sides of the trade at any given point of time.

667
00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:07.639
<v Speaker 1>So they're taking risk on where they would be able

668
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:11.400
<v Speaker 1>to offload the trade. Right, so they're charging you effectively

669
00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:14.000
<v Speaker 1>a premium for that risk. That's the insurance. Right, they're

670
00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:17.480
<v Speaker 1>charging an insurance premium because they're willing at any given

671
00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:19.880
<v Speaker 1>point I have to take that thing. Now, if you're

672
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:23.119
<v Speaker 1>saying to a market maker that generally speaking will go

673
00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:25.239
<v Speaker 1>flat at the end of the day, meaning won't have

674
00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:29.480
<v Speaker 1>to settle anything, and therefore, from a capital requirements perspective,

675
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:33.400
<v Speaker 1>it's very efficient, meaning you want them to make the

676
00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:36.039
<v Speaker 1>same return on the risk that they're providing you for

677
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:38.960
<v Speaker 1>having these tight spreads, And now you're saying, nah, you

678
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:43.039
<v Speaker 1>need to have the capital to settle every transaction. Inherently,

679
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:45.280
<v Speaker 1>what I believe will happen is spreads will go wider.

680
00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:50.239
<v Speaker 1>That's not a good outcome. You don't want spreads on

681
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:53.719
<v Speaker 1>most US equities to go wider. So this is not

682
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:57.239
<v Speaker 1>me saying that you should remain a TPLESS one or

683
00:39:57.320 --> 00:40:00.960
<v Speaker 1>Tpless two or even t zero. I want to have

684
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:04.719
<v Speaker 1>technology that allows you to settle everything in real time,

685
00:40:05.079 --> 00:40:08.280
<v Speaker 1>but also allows you to net transactions once an hour

686
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:11.880
<v Speaker 1>and subtle things once an hour, because maybe that's the

687
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:17.079
<v Speaker 1>right spread between not settling and getting the benefits of netting.

688
00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:19.440
<v Speaker 1>So if I'm a market maker, as long as I

689
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:22.239
<v Speaker 1>go flat every hour, I can still run the same

690
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:25.320
<v Speaker 1>business as I run today and still provide these really

691
00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:30.440
<v Speaker 1>tight spreads. And so to me, the reason I stated

692
00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:33.360
<v Speaker 1>with I think that you will see activity happening twenty

693
00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:37.719
<v Speaker 1>four to seven is we should understand why some of

694
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:41.960
<v Speaker 1>these behaviors in the market, like an auction like clearing

695
00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:45.480
<v Speaker 1>and settlement exists. There's actually benefits to these things. And

696
00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:47.440
<v Speaker 1>for the most part, you're saying that in crypto, a

697
00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:51.480
<v Speaker 1>lot of exchanges don't put every bitcoin transaction on chain.

698
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:54.800
<v Speaker 1>Why do they not do that, Well, because they don't

699
00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:57.360
<v Speaker 1>want to pay the fees for every transaction, right, so

700
00:40:57.400 --> 00:40:59.559
<v Speaker 1>they internalize the flow, they net it, and then every

701
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:02.199
<v Speaker 1>once in a while, well they'll they'll put a transaction.

702
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:04.960
<v Speaker 1>And that's kind of my point is like a lot

703
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.199
<v Speaker 1>of these financial activities have a reason that some of

704
00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:12.639
<v Speaker 1>them have positives, some of them have negatives. Our view

705
00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:16.440
<v Speaker 1>is that that technology will allow you to move value

706
00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:19.519
<v Speaker 1>twenty four to seven and we will see how markets

707
00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:20.639
<v Speaker 1>evolve as a result of that.

708
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:24.679
<v Speaker 2>I read recently partner with chain link, tell us a

709
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:26.599
<v Speaker 2>bit about that, and you know your plan to work

710
00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:29.159
<v Speaker 2>with other blockchains, interoperability and all these things.

711
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:35.199
<v Speaker 1>Sure, first of all, from a chaining perspective, listen, Serge

712
00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:41.119
<v Speaker 1>have built a tremendous brand and reach, and you know,

713
00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:45.400
<v Speaker 1>our view is that if you move assets or you know,

714
00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:48.679
<v Speaker 1>going to do you know, derivatives or all kinds of things,

715
00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:52.679
<v Speaker 1>you will need to have data come in and out

716
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:55.239
<v Speaker 1>to your network. You'll want to do that. Just recently

717
00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:57.719
<v Speaker 1>the proof of reserves. There's a lot of things that

718
00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:00.559
<v Speaker 1>you can collaborate, so you know, very excited to be

719
00:42:00.599 --> 00:42:03.039
<v Speaker 1>working with them, and I think there's more coming down

720
00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:06.280
<v Speaker 1>the pipe. So that's I think that when I look

721
00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:08.960
<v Speaker 1>at chain Link, I look at them more as the

722
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:12.360
<v Speaker 1>service that they offer, not necessarily intropability with another blockchain,

723
00:42:12.679 --> 00:42:14.920
<v Speaker 1>and just thinking about kind of the network that they build,

724
00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:17.199
<v Speaker 1>the products that they offer, and what you could do

725
00:42:17.239 --> 00:42:20.880
<v Speaker 1>with them. That's more how I look at it. Generally speaking,

726
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:26.559
<v Speaker 1>around intropability, I think, first of all, everybody will have

727
00:42:26.599 --> 00:42:29.880
<v Speaker 1>their own definition of what intropability means. I think for

728
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:35.239
<v Speaker 1>the most part, most intropability stories today are message based.

729
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:41.039
<v Speaker 1>There is no real intropability, Like two protocols at the

730
00:42:41.079 --> 00:42:44.760
<v Speaker 1>protocol layer are joined at the hip, which is fine.

731
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:46.719
<v Speaker 1>I think that at the end of the day those solutions,

732
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:49.320
<v Speaker 1>this is not a criticism, So I think that it's

733
00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:53.199
<v Speaker 1>really just what is intropability. So chain Link provides, you know,

734
00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:56.199
<v Speaker 1>an introhabability solution. You have layer zero, you have wormhol

735
00:42:56.239 --> 00:43:01.159
<v Speaker 1>There's just many, many solutions like that. One of the

736
00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:04.719
<v Speaker 1>things that you know, we believe is that when we

737
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:09.800
<v Speaker 1>are asked to do intropability or to consider intropability, it's

738
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:12.840
<v Speaker 1>always what is the business reason to do that. I'll

739
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:17.800
<v Speaker 1>give you an example, if tomorrow one of our institutional

740
00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:21.360
<v Speaker 1>players that receives collateral for some of their activities and

741
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:24.400
<v Speaker 1>they're doing the work on Canton said, you know, we're

742
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:28.920
<v Speaker 1>willing to start accepting Ethereum as collateral. Well, that's a

743
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:32.400
<v Speaker 1>good business case to do a native intropability with Ethereum

744
00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:35.840
<v Speaker 1>because I would like for it to have no settlement

745
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:38.960
<v Speaker 1>risk or stuff like that that I can pledge you know,

746
00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:42.480
<v Speaker 1>eth as collateral. Right. Like so, I just generally speak

747
00:43:42.519 --> 00:43:44.320
<v Speaker 1>and think that the solutions that we have today like

748
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:48.519
<v Speaker 1>chain link are great or layer Zer, they're all great solutions.

749
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:51.119
<v Speaker 1>But at the end of the day, I think that

750
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:56.199
<v Speaker 1>sometimes people because there's just so many options today. I

751
00:43:56.199 --> 00:43:59.920
<v Speaker 1>think the clients I understand why are saying like I'd

752
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:02.800
<v Speaker 1>don't want to make the wrong bet, and therefore, like,

753
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:06.679
<v Speaker 1>can you give me a solution how I can not

754
00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:09.880
<v Speaker 1>feel like I'm too married to you and offer me

755
00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:15.079
<v Speaker 1>all of these intropability stories, which you know I understand.

756
00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:17.199
<v Speaker 1>But it's just like, as a business, you also need

757
00:44:17.239 --> 00:44:20.679
<v Speaker 1>to think about where you drive revenue and growth, and

758
00:44:20.840 --> 00:44:22.920
<v Speaker 1>a lot of times you would invest a ton of

759
00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:27.239
<v Speaker 1>resources to do introperability without a concrete business case under it.

760
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:29.280
<v Speaker 1>It's just it's just a lot of times will end

761
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:31.360
<v Speaker 1>up in wasted wasted effort.

762
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:34.599
<v Speaker 2>And as far as wallet and exchange support, I know

763
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:36.639
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned the token is going to be launched later

764
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:40.519
<v Speaker 2>on anything you can share there or still too early.

765
00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:44.119
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to front on it, Okay, So hopefully

766
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:47.039
<v Speaker 1>in the next in the next few weeks, we'll be

767
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:47.760
<v Speaker 1>able to share more.

768
00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:51.199
<v Speaker 2>That's exciting. I'm looking forward to that. What's on your

769
00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:52.639
<v Speaker 2>road map? You know, what can we expect in the

770
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:53.599
<v Speaker 2>next six months or so.

771
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:58.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So, again, like I said, we want Canton to

772
00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:02.320
<v Speaker 1>be the place for assets to be available again, not

773
00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:04.960
<v Speaker 1>just issued. Right, I think that there's like four hundred

774
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:08.039
<v Speaker 1>trillion dollars worth of assets globally. We're just going to

775
00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:12.599
<v Speaker 1>wait for new issuance to come. I might quit now,

776
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:16.960
<v Speaker 1>right Like, So it's really about how do we allow

777
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:20.800
<v Speaker 1>the four hundred trillion dollars worth of assets to move

778
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:25.199
<v Speaker 1>to be natively available on Canton. That's probably our biggest effort.

779
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:30.039
<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of development work on adding more features,

780
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:35.960
<v Speaker 1>support the complements, whether it's the wallets, the different vendor providers,

781
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:40.320
<v Speaker 1>DeFi protocols that that might be coming to Canton there's

782
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:43.639
<v Speaker 1>now a dex with privacy, so no sandwich order is

783
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:47.119
<v Speaker 1>none of that market manipulation that is happening like, which

784
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:50.599
<v Speaker 1>I think is like super exciting. So there's there's there's

785
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:53.239
<v Speaker 1>a lot, there's a lot that is coming and you

786
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:56.039
<v Speaker 1>know our you know, our main focus right now is

787
00:45:56.480 --> 00:45:59.440
<v Speaker 1>the listing, but also some of the projects that will

788
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:01.840
<v Speaker 1>be and now soon in terms of assets that would

789
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:02.960
<v Speaker 1>be available on Canton.

790
00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:05.599
<v Speaker 2>That's great. Tell us a bit about you know, when

791
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:07.880
<v Speaker 2>you go to pitch Candon to some of these major

792
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:12.159
<v Speaker 2>financial institutions and given your background, your pedigree in this market,

793
00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:14.920
<v Speaker 2>are they more open now? Are they more interested, like, hey,

794
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:17.760
<v Speaker 2>we want to learn about this technology. We were looking

795
00:46:18.039 --> 00:46:19.599
<v Speaker 2>to build solutions and things like that.

796
00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:24.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, listen, I think maybe one of the things that

797
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:26.840
<v Speaker 1>people ask me kind of in the same realm of

798
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:30.320
<v Speaker 1>what you just asked, is is the new administration helpful?

799
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:34.880
<v Speaker 1>How is the new legislation like is it giving you know,

800
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:37.320
<v Speaker 1>I have to give a lot of credit to the

801
00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:41.480
<v Speaker 1>administration and also the regulators that they've brought, which is

802
00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:44.119
<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of the institutions that we work

803
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:47.639
<v Speaker 1>with and worked with in the past were always interested

804
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:50.679
<v Speaker 1>in the technology there's a lot of value we can

805
00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:53.559
<v Speaker 1>demonstrate through things that have been in production for a while,

806
00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:56.760
<v Speaker 1>the efficiencies and the value that it's not just in

807
00:46:56.840 --> 00:47:01.880
<v Speaker 1>crypto like you could actually in real markets significant value.

808
00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:05.199
<v Speaker 1>As with the use of the technology, the problem is

809
00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:09.079
<v Speaker 1>in the past, they just didn't know, Hey, if I'm

810
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:11.159
<v Speaker 1>going to do this, would I get in trouble just

811
00:47:11.239 --> 00:47:14.800
<v Speaker 1>from using it? And I think that you know, the

812
00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:17.960
<v Speaker 1>Genius Act and the Clarity Act, that those are all

813
00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:21.719
<v Speaker 1>tremendous and they're great and they're super helpful. I actually

814
00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:24.800
<v Speaker 1>think that it's the posture of the administration and therefore

815
00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:27.800
<v Speaker 1>of the regulator, in my opinion, that is much more

816
00:47:27.800 --> 00:47:32.679
<v Speaker 1>helpful because I think that organizations today, at least what

817
00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:36.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm hearing, are almost encouraged to use the technology, where

818
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:40.199
<v Speaker 1>in the past they were scared of even exploring the technology.

819
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:45.760
<v Speaker 1>So what we're seeing is not that organizations are suddenly

820
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:49.679
<v Speaker 1>interested in the technology. They're actually motivated to do the

821
00:47:49.719 --> 00:47:51.920
<v Speaker 1>things that they have been wanting to do for many years.

822
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:56.719
<v Speaker 1>So that that to me is the more exciting things. Yeah,

823
00:47:56.719 --> 00:48:00.239
<v Speaker 1>there are some organizations that, purely as a result of

824
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:03.719
<v Speaker 1>what's been happening in markets recently, are now kind of like, Hey,

825
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:05.719
<v Speaker 1>we need to figure out what we're doing here. But

826
00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:07.320
<v Speaker 1>I will tell you, for the most part, we've been

827
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:12.039
<v Speaker 1>talking to most trat fire organizations for the last you know,

828
00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:16.079
<v Speaker 1>five six years, and it's it's more of the posture

829
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:18.320
<v Speaker 1>right now that is is much more helpful.

830
00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:21.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely makes sense because you don't have to worry

831
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:24.920
<v Speaker 2>about getting a wells notice so in a lawsuit. And uh,

832
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:28.000
<v Speaker 2>the sec in particular are very much more open door,

833
00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:31.400
<v Speaker 2>more transparency e crypto roundtables. So it's a complete one

834
00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:34.639
<v Speaker 2>eighty and uh, you know. And the next bill up

835
00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:37.199
<v Speaker 2>is the Clarity Active Market Structure Bill. And to your

836
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:39.719
<v Speaker 2>point of the posture, those bills are going to take

837
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:42.320
<v Speaker 2>time to get to be refined. There's going to be

838
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:44.760
<v Speaker 2>more that needs to be added. I think the initial

839
00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:47.599
<v Speaker 2>draft doesn't cover everything in the crypto market. So but

840
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:55.679
<v Speaker 2>the posturing is to your point, much better at this point. Yeah,

841
00:48:55.719 --> 00:48:58.199
<v Speaker 2>where do you see this asset class in market and

842
00:48:58.199 --> 00:49:01.159
<v Speaker 2>not price prediction? But let's say by twenty thirty, are

843
00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:05.719
<v Speaker 2>we seeing trifi institutions running on blockchain rails? Retail also

844
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:08.360
<v Speaker 2>using stable coins to go buy coffee at Starbucks. Maybe

845
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:10.880
<v Speaker 2>they don't know it's being powered by stable coins, but

846
00:49:11.559 --> 00:49:15.119
<v Speaker 2>your MasterCard. I just interviewed the EVP of mastercarda digital assets.

847
00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:19.000
<v Speaker 2>They're looking to integrate all these things. Is this technology

848
00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:20.000
<v Speaker 2>running behind the scenes?

849
00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:26.239
<v Speaker 1>Good question, Listen. I think again, no price prediction. Like

850
00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:29.079
<v Speaker 1>I said in the beginning, I think bitcoin put it aside.

851
00:49:29.079 --> 00:49:33.639
<v Speaker 1>I think eventually when people ask me like, when is

852
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:36.000
<v Speaker 1>the time that you said we made it? And to me,

853
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:38.599
<v Speaker 1>it's when I stop having to be on a podcast

854
00:49:38.599 --> 00:49:42.519
<v Speaker 1>to talk about consensus protocols and explain what blockchain is. Right.

855
00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:46.000
<v Speaker 1>We don't talk today how the internet work. Would just

856
00:49:46.039 --> 00:49:50.119
<v Speaker 1>accept it right, So to me that we made it

857
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:53.119
<v Speaker 1>is when people stop talking about the tech and it

858
00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:57.360
<v Speaker 1>just gets used. You know, in twenty thirty do people

859
00:49:57.360 --> 00:49:59.239
<v Speaker 1>do all of the things. I think they're doing it today.

860
00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:02.639
<v Speaker 1>It's just question of how much. Right. So when you

861
00:50:02.679 --> 00:50:05.840
<v Speaker 1>talk to institutional players today, they still talk about what

862
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:09.159
<v Speaker 1>is their cloud strategy? Does that mean that cloud haven't

863
00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:12.840
<v Speaker 1>made it yet? No, It's just that these transformations take

864
00:50:13.400 --> 00:50:16.079
<v Speaker 1>tens of years. It's just that, you know, our attention

865
00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:18.679
<v Speaker 1>span have been reduced to a thirty cinc in TikTok

866
00:50:19.079 --> 00:50:21.760
<v Speaker 1>or Instagram video, So we think that everything needs to

867
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:25.000
<v Speaker 1>happen in days, weeks, or month, And the reality is

868
00:50:25.320 --> 00:50:28.960
<v Speaker 1>things that have been baking for one hundred years are

869
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:32.360
<v Speaker 1>just not going to be unraveled in a single year

870
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:34.840
<v Speaker 1>even a decade, right, It's just going to happen. So

871
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:38.480
<v Speaker 1>in twenty thirty, the stuff that is happening today will

872
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:43.239
<v Speaker 1>just happen more significantly more, And you're just going to

873
00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:47.119
<v Speaker 1>see business models that you know, you haven't thought about, right,

874
00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:49.159
<v Speaker 1>Like I always think that, Like to me, the most

875
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:53.400
<v Speaker 1>exciting is to work with organizations that are saying, you know,

876
00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:57.239
<v Speaker 1>not how do I put my business on a blockchain?

877
00:50:57.920 --> 00:51:00.239
<v Speaker 1>But if my business ran on a blockchain, and I

878
00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:02.760
<v Speaker 1>rethink what is my business model? And I think that

879
00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:06.039
<v Speaker 1>that's similar. Thing that happened with the Internet is a

880
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:09.760
<v Speaker 1>lot of companies took the availability of the Internet to

881
00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:12.400
<v Speaker 1>say I'm just going to take my business and put

882
00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:18.400
<v Speaker 1>it on the Internet. But then there are companies Amazon, Netflix, Facebook,

883
00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:21.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, Google that just said like, okay, now there's

884
00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:24.679
<v Speaker 1>this thing called internet, can we rethink the business model?

885
00:51:25.039 --> 00:51:27.400
<v Speaker 1>And those are today the biggest companies in the world.

886
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:30.400
<v Speaker 1>I think very similarly, in twenty thirty, you're just going

887
00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:34.719
<v Speaker 1>to see companies that we you know, had to either

888
00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:39.320
<v Speaker 1>rethink their business model or new entrants that came and said, hey,

889
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:42.519
<v Speaker 1>now that this technology is available and so many people

890
00:51:42.679 --> 00:51:45.159
<v Speaker 1>have their hands on it, can I come up with

891
00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:48.400
<v Speaker 1>a new business model of something that we have accepted

892
00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:51.519
<v Speaker 1>as just kind of granted today. But if you rethink it,

893
00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:55.639
<v Speaker 1>I have you know, the next bank of the future.

894
00:51:56.199 --> 00:51:59.119
<v Speaker 1>And you're seeing, you know, you're seeing some of these

895
00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:04.599
<v Speaker 1>announcement of a digital asset first kind of bank for example,

896
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:06.480
<v Speaker 1>and things like that, and I don't know if that's

897
00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:08.920
<v Speaker 1>going to be successful, but I think that to me,

898
00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:11.119
<v Speaker 1>that's the interesting thing of what we're going to see

899
00:52:11.159 --> 00:52:14.599
<v Speaker 1>in twenty thirty is what are the new institution or

900
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:19.000
<v Speaker 1>existing institutions that rethought their business model and now we're

901
00:52:19.039 --> 00:52:21.159
<v Speaker 1>just accepting that as that's just it.

902
00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:25.679
<v Speaker 2>Sure, what do you think about and are you looking

903
00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:29.840
<v Speaker 2>at AI and integrating that into the Canton network, whether

904
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.599
<v Speaker 2>that's helping to increase some certain attributes of the network

905
00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:37.079
<v Speaker 2>or helping these institutions to do more.

906
00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:41.519
<v Speaker 1>So the two ways. You know, I think a lot

907
00:52:41.519 --> 00:52:46.440
<v Speaker 1>of people talk about, you know, AI cannot cheat cryptography,

908
00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:48.639
<v Speaker 1>and I'm not you know, I'm not going to talk

909
00:52:48.679 --> 00:52:52.199
<v Speaker 1>about that, and not because I don't have I just

910
00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:55.480
<v Speaker 1>I can't find I'm not expert enough in my opinion

911
00:52:55.519 --> 00:52:57.679
<v Speaker 1>to kind of voice an opinion of that. But one

912
00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:02.639
<v Speaker 1>element is that you know one of the attributes which

913
00:53:02.679 --> 00:53:07.119
<v Speaker 1>are positives of a not connected system. A lot of

914
00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:11.000
<v Speaker 1>times people will view reconciliation as a negative right because

915
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:14.480
<v Speaker 1>it's a cost and it slows down the system. But

916
00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:16.880
<v Speaker 1>the reality is just if you think about it statistically,

917
00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:22.199
<v Speaker 1>if there's a mistake, more than likely, if nine people

918
00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:24.800
<v Speaker 1>need to do a process, the chances of all nine

919
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:27.239
<v Speaker 1>of them making the same mistake is very slim. And

920
00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:29.719
<v Speaker 1>that's where our conscilliation kicks in. A few of them

921
00:53:29.719 --> 00:53:31.320
<v Speaker 1>made the mistake, and a few of them say we

922
00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:33.440
<v Speaker 1>think you're wrong, and then they go through the process

923
00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:37.119
<v Speaker 1>of our conciliation they find the mistake. There's an inherent

924
00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:41.480
<v Speaker 1>risk in blockchain where because it's a one shared source

925
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:45.320
<v Speaker 1>of truth, if a mistake have entered into the system,

926
00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:48.039
<v Speaker 1>we just all accept the mistake as the source of truth.

927
00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:51.440
<v Speaker 1>So a lot of we have a few projects where

928
00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:55.239
<v Speaker 1>when we are creating the smart contracts that are coming

929
00:53:55.320 --> 00:53:58.679
<v Speaker 1>from data from the outside world, we're using AI to

930
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:02.599
<v Speaker 1>kind of give levels of confidence that how we are

931
00:54:02.679 --> 00:54:06.719
<v Speaker 1>creating the smart contract was really high quality data. Right,

932
00:54:06.760 --> 00:54:09.880
<v Speaker 1>that's just one on one element and then the other

933
00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:12.679
<v Speaker 1>element is well, now things can move in real time,

934
00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:17.119
<v Speaker 1>you could make a lot of very exciting, very complex decisions. Right.

935
00:54:17.159 --> 00:54:20.239
<v Speaker 1>The surface area of what you can do grows dramatically,

936
00:54:20.599 --> 00:54:23.880
<v Speaker 1>and this is where again AI agents can help you

937
00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:26.760
<v Speaker 1>make better decisions, but also take advantage of the fact

938
00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:29.159
<v Speaker 1>that there's you know, much more things that you can

939
00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:30.119
<v Speaker 1>do now in real time.

940
00:54:30.519 --> 00:54:33.400
<v Speaker 2>Sure, and could the AI agents assist with a twenty

941
00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:35.360
<v Speaker 2>four seven market That's.

942
00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:39.800
<v Speaker 1>An example sleeping If you have now you know, and

943
00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:43.760
<v Speaker 1>types of collateral that you can use in the system,

944
00:54:43.880 --> 00:54:46.800
<v Speaker 1>what is the right thing to use when under what conditions?

945
00:54:46.840 --> 00:54:49.519
<v Speaker 1>Because of the liquidity, what would be easier for me

946
00:54:49.599 --> 00:54:53.360
<v Speaker 1>to liquidate? Like, there's just the complexity like right, Like

947
00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:56.280
<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of times people you know underappreciate

948
00:54:56.760 --> 00:55:00.400
<v Speaker 1>as a result of what we're doing here, the lexity

949
00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:04.440
<v Speaker 1>of the system is just going to grow dramatically. Another

950
00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:06.400
<v Speaker 1>thing that people should think about with twenty four to

951
00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:09.480
<v Speaker 1>seven is, you know, if there's a run on a

952
00:55:09.519 --> 00:55:12.920
<v Speaker 1>bank today, A lot of times those conversations of what

953
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:15.199
<v Speaker 1>do we do with that bank happen on the weekend

954
00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:18.639
<v Speaker 1>when everything is closed, Well, what happens now when things

955
00:55:18.639 --> 00:55:21.079
<v Speaker 1>are not closed? So the system is going to become

956
00:55:21.320 --> 00:55:24.679
<v Speaker 1>much more complicated as a result of a lot of

957
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:27.039
<v Speaker 1>the positive things that are coming. And I think that

958
00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:30.079
<v Speaker 1>that's again where AI can really be helpful.

959
00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:33.400
<v Speaker 2>You've all great stuff. I got some wrap up questions

960
00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:36.159
<v Speaker 2>here for you. First, if you could create your own metaverse,

961
00:55:36.199 --> 00:55:42.000
<v Speaker 2>will the theme be damn where would you put your

962
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:44.239
<v Speaker 2>Oculus or Apple pro vision on?

963
00:55:44.719 --> 00:55:46.719
<v Speaker 1>And with the amount of work it would just be

964
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:49.199
<v Speaker 1>like a deserted island with some silence.

965
00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Escape right, be on a beach somewhere by yourself. Yeah,

966
00:55:55.000 --> 00:56:02.039
<v Speaker 2>rapid fire questions favorite food Indian, favorite musician or bad radiohead,

967
00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:03.400
<v Speaker 2>favorite movie.

968
00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:13.519
<v Speaker 1>Pulp fiction, favorite book, favorite book a professional book? Is

969
00:56:13.559 --> 00:56:21.119
<v Speaker 1>the hard thing? About hard things? I don't know too many,

970
00:56:21.159 --> 00:56:22.719
<v Speaker 1>too many books? And the other category.

971
00:56:23.239 --> 00:56:24.880
<v Speaker 2>When you're not working at Digital Asset, what are you

972
00:56:24.880 --> 00:56:25.239
<v Speaker 2>doing for.

973
00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:31.639
<v Speaker 1>Fun when I don't sprain my ankle running? Cycling and photography?

974
00:56:32.159 --> 00:56:35.599
<v Speaker 2>Awesome? You've all loved what Canton Network's doing. Digital asses

975
00:56:35.719 --> 00:56:38.079
<v Speaker 2>is doing. Love to have you back on as things progress.

976
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:39.559
<v Speaker 2>But thank you so much for joining me.

977
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:40.559
<v Speaker 1>Perfect, Thank you so much.