WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:06.000 It's Night with Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's News Radio. 2 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:11.119 Thank you very much, Madison. As we start a Thursday night, 3 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:13.720 we are more than halfway through this week and the 4 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:16.559 warm weather has returned to New England, which is a 5 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:19.160 good thing. I'm sure in a few warm days we'll 6 00:00:19.160 --> 00:00:21.440 obvious saying it are kind of cool off. But that's 7 00:00:21.480 --> 00:00:23.120 the way we do it in New England. We complain 8 00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:25.399 about the weather, whatever it is. My name is Dan Ray, 9 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:27.839 as Madison indicated, the host of Nightside with Dan Ray. 10 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:31.399 Dan Cantano is back in the control room tonight. Rob 11 00:00:31.399 --> 00:00:34.240 Brooks a little bit under the weather. He'll be just fine, 12 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:36.039 And if we don't see him tomorrow night, I'm sure 13 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:40.439 he'll be back on Monday. Marita aka Lady Lightning comes 14 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:43.640 back on Monday as well, so we'll have everybody together 15 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:47.759 with us on Monday. But we are working through the week. Nonetheless, 16 00:00:47.799 --> 00:00:50.719 we have an interesting set of topics coming up tonight. 17 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:54.799 We're going to talk about wrapping up the second trial 18 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:58.960 of Karen Reid. That will be actually the trial has 19 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.880 in effect make pleaded both the defense and the prosecution 20 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:05.439 of rest that we'll be talking with Attorney Boston longtime 21 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:08.640 criminal defense attorneying Phil Tracy at nine o'clock about his 22 00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:12.840 comparisons to between the two trials, the first one a 23 00:01:12.920 --> 00:01:14.719 year ago that ended in a hung jury in the 24 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:17.840 second one, which we'll have closing arguments tomorrow and may 25 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:19.560 get to the jury and there could be some jury 26 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:23.560 deliberations even tomorrow as early as tomorrow. Don't think we'll 27 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:27.319 have a decision really quickly, but I'll lead that question 28 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:29.200 to Phil Tracy. And then later on we're going to 29 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:32.280 talk about the immigration crisis and how do we get 30 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:35.799 to this point. It's a pretty interesting process we'll walk 31 00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:39.000 through later on. But we have four very interesting guests 32 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.959 with topics of current relevance. We're going to start off 33 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:46.920 with doctor Zoey Weis Weiss. She is a doctor infectious 34 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:51.760 disease physician, director of the microbiology Laboratory at Toft's Medical Center, 35 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:55.079 which is great close to home here. Doctor Weiss, Welcome 36 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:57.560 to KNIGHT'SID. I'm not sure if we've had you on before. 37 00:01:57.680 --> 00:01:59.239 I think not. How are you tonight? 38 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:01.640 I'm good, I have not been on before, and I'm 39 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:02.319 happy to be here. 40 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:04.760 Well, I'm happy to have you here. We're going to 41 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:11.439 talk about salmonella. Hee not the sort of thing that 42 00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:13.800 we want to talk about going into the weekend. But 43 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:17.199 eggs were really expensive for a long time. A lot 44 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:20.879 of people were not buying eggs. Now that the prices 45 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:25.639 have come down a little bit. Yikes. Salmonella thankfully so 46 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:30.680 far not in New England. But tell us what salmonilla 47 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:35.199 is and how we can avoid exposure to it. 48 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:39.919 Yeah, So, salmonella is a specific type of bacteria causes 49 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:43.719 food born illness and it causes an intestinal infection. We 50 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:49.639 sometimes call it salmonellosis, and it's typically spread by contaminated 51 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.479 food water like contact with animals. We call it kind 52 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:56.400 of a fecal oral root. So you know, if there's 53 00:02:56.439 --> 00:02:59.960 any kind of poor sanitation issues, we're any kind of 54 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:04.120 fecal matter can get into food sources and that can 55 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:08.280 contaminate the food and cause you know, salmonella infection. And 56 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:12.639 so there have been some cases of salmonell infection related 57 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:17.439 to eggs recently, as you were talking about, and then 58 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:19.759 earlier this month there was a cucumber or last month 59 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:22.439 a cucumber recall as well from salmonella. 60 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:29.159 How do they isolate the source? Obviously, certain people show 61 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:33.080 up I assume with some symptoms, they must do some 62 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:37.479 sort of an analysis of the symptoms, and they they 63 00:03:37.479 --> 00:03:38.319 were able to say, you. 64 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:42.919 Love this question, you what I love this question. So 65 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:47.080 what happens is that somebody comes goes to a hospital 66 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:50.479 or a healthcare center with diarrhea some sort of you know, 67 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:53.280 food borne illness, and they are able to detect the 68 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:57.479 salmonella in the stool, for example. Then they'll send it 69 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:01.560 to the Department of Public Health, and public health labs 70 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:05.680 will do genetic sequencing of the salmonella, and then they'll 71 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:08.759 upload it into a giant database that is overseen by 72 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:12.039 the CDC called pulse NEET, and the CDC will be 73 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:16.279 able to track in real time whether these salmonel cases 74 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:18.959 are related to each other. So based on how genetically 75 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.360 related the different organisms are, they're say, okay, like this 76 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:24.920 person in California and this person in Rhode Island both 77 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:28.240 had the same salmonella strain, and therefore there might be 78 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:32.720 you know, some sort of risk that there's an outbreak. 79 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:35.519 And then so they'll contact those people and try to 80 00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:36.199 trace it back. 81 00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:41.120 So they will try to determine a commonality. So not 82 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:44.560 only will they do the science, the lab work but 83 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:47.160 then they will reach out to these people and say, Okay, 84 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.399 where have you been, what have you been exposed to? Now, 85 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:54.759 in this particular instance, it's seventy people across seven states 86 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.480 have been sick and due to a salmonella outbreak. I 87 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:03.120 assume salmonella must be rare that when somehow, some way 88 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:07.600 the red flag goes up we got a salmonella case 89 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:12.319 here in Wyoming, they're able to enter that into computer 90 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:14.959 and find out if there are any other recent salmonella cases. 91 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:20.959 If seventy people have basically alerted public health authorities to 92 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:24.600 this outbreak, that's a fairly small number in comparison to 93 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:31.319 the population of these ten or so states Arizona, California, Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska, 94 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:36.600 New Mexico, divide of Washington, and Wyoming. That's a wide 95 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:40.759 swath of land of geography that they. 96 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:43.720 Well, I think it speaks exactly, yeah, exactly to the 97 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:47.040 fact that all hospitals in the United States are required 98 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:49.959 to send their salmonella samples to their Department of Public 99 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:51.920 Health LOBS, and all of these hospitals are connected to 100 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:55.439 the CDC. So there's a there's a there's an effort 101 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:58.160 to make sure that you know, anytime salmonella is isolated, 102 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:02.519 we're capturing it. And it's true that it's rarely picked up. 103 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:03.959 I mean someone has to be sick enough to go 104 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:06.480 to the hospital or to see the doctor. Lots of 105 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:09.399 people probably get salmonella, and for the most part, most 106 00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:12.240 people who have a normal immune system otherwise healthy. You know, 107 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:15.439 they might have a few days of naze, vomiting, diarrhea, 108 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:17.560 but they wouldn't necessarily go to the doctor. So the 109 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:19.879 only people were really capturing are the ones who end 110 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:22.879 up getting you know, seen in the healthcare setting. So 111 00:06:22.879 --> 00:06:25.040 it's probably the number of people affected are much larger, 112 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:27.519 but the ones who are capturing is you know, smaller population. 113 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:32.319 Now, I'm sure that the having studied Latin in high school, 114 00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:35.399 that the word celmanella somehow comes from the Latin. I 115 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:40.560 think it's kind of unfair to salmon salmonella. Agree, it 116 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:45.079 looks to me pretty close to salmon. Again, how did 117 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:48.800 they How has this been a disease that's I assume 118 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:51.959 has been with us forever. This is not something that's 119 00:06:52.040 --> 00:06:53.920 new on the disease chart, right. 120 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:59.600 So, actually, the word salmonelle was named after a doctor 121 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:04.439 who's a veterinary pathologist named Daniel Elmer Salmon. I don't 122 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:08.000 know if you know Salmon or Simon or however. And 123 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:10.360 it's been known for a long time, nineteen hundreds. I 124 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:13.399 think many people have heard of the term typhoid, like 125 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:14.759 typhoid mary for example. 126 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:15.399 History. 127 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:20.439 Yeah, and so salmonella. One of the species of salmonella 128 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:25.720 is Salmonella typhee, which causes typhoid fever, mostly in countries 129 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:30.199 that have like underdeveloped you know, water, clean water infrastructure. 130 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:33.560 And then the salmonella that we see here or something 131 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:37.720 usually species called salmonella and enterica is related. The disease 132 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:41.639 is not as severe, it's more self limiting, and but 133 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:44.399 they're related. So people have known about salmonella for a 134 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:45.040 long time. 135 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:51.720 And I assume the commonality that they've established with all 136 00:07:51.800 --> 00:07:55.600 of these people is they must have figured out that 137 00:07:55.759 --> 00:08:01.839 all of them had purchased these eggs from this company, 138 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:06.639 which apparently sold their eggs wholesale to restaurants and retailers 139 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:09.439 in these states. I assume that's how they were able 140 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:12.639 to say this is an egg born correct. 141 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:13.120 Yeah. 142 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:16.120 And it's a lot of work. It takes a lot 143 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:18.360 of work to figure out what everybody was exposed to 144 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:23.160 and I and you know, and salmonella is relatively easy 145 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.399 because the onset of disease could be within hours to 146 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:29.879 a few days. So and the most common causes are 147 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:34.480 things like, you know, chicken, eggs, sometimes fresh vegetables, so 148 00:08:34.519 --> 00:08:36.840 you can ask people, you know, a list of those things. 149 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:40.279 Some food borne illnesses, like there's one called listeria, can 150 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:42.519 actually be late in or kind of stay in your 151 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:45.639 body without causing disease for months before it becomes a problem. 152 00:08:45.639 --> 00:08:47.879 And those people can take a really long time to 153 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:49.360 figure out what their original source is. 154 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:53.519 Yeah, well, it's great, it's great to know. I'm glad 155 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:55.840 that I know now that there was a doctor who 156 00:08:55.879 --> 00:09:00.960 discovered this doctor Salmon. Is that is how we you 157 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:03.159 said he pronounced his name to him. So the Indians 158 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:05.559 had a backup for a baseman in the sixties, Chico 159 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:08.960 Simone as well, so his name was spelled the same way. 160 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:10.720 I thought it might have been named after him, but no, 161 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:14.279 but that's true. That's true. I have these sports names 162 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:15.840 in the back of my head. You can look it up. 163 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:18.279 Chico Simone s a L M O. N. Kind of 164 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:20.639 a backup for a spaseman. Not a great player, but 165 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:23.919 played in the major leagues. Doctor wise, you're a major 166 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:26.879 leaguer as far as I am concerned. I really love 167 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:29.360 your enthusiasm for this job. But I love the way 168 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:33.559 that you sort of worked through the minefield of explanation 169 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:38.240 of things so that nobody got too grossed out. So 170 00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:42.960 thank you yes, well yeah, no, absolutely, but thank you 171 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:45.679 very much. You were really great and I hope we 172 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:47.759 can get your back. And by the way, just to 173 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:53.000 pin it, this was a California based egg distributor and 174 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:56.879 I guess the name of according to the US Center 175 00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:59.840 for Disease Control. I'm just clicking on it here and 176 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:05.039 seeing if the uh if the company uh in August 177 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:09.120 sixth Egg Company, August Egg Company. Okay, August egg Company. 178 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:13.080 They were the source. So if you can figure out 179 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:15.679 if your eggs are from the August Egg Company, and 180 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:16.759 I have no idea how you. 181 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:19.799 Do that, they get told under other brand names like 182 00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:24.320 Clover First Street Organics, market Side, Sun Harvest, So you 183 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:26.159 really have to look and see, you know, is your 184 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:29.440 is this a the wider distributor August egg Company? 185 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.279 Well? You know something again, you you you just even 186 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:37.600 answered questions. I wasn't smart enough to ask that. I'm impressed. 187 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:42.440 Doctor Zoe Weiss, infectious disease physician, director of the Microbiology 188 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:45.960 Laboratory at Tufts Medical Center. I really enjoyed what I 189 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:48.919 thought was not going to be an enjoyable conversation. Thanks 190 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:53.679 so much for your time tonight. Okay, thank you, my pleasure. Thanks, 191 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:55.759 good night. Well we get back when we talk with 192 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:59.320 an author whose name is Stephen Harrigan. He's author of 193 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:03.600 a book called Sorrowful Mysteries, The Shepherd Children of Fatima 194 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:07.200 and the Fate of the twentieth Century. It's going to 195 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:10.480 be an interesting conversation. I think what I've read, I 196 00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:14.200 haven't read the book. I think he's pretty skeptical about 197 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:15.639 all of this. There's a lot of people have a 198 00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:18.720 right to be I'm someone who is as a person 199 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:22.840 of faith, wants to believe, and given a choice, I 200 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:26.000 give faith the benefit of the doubt. We'll have a 201 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:28.519 good conversation with Steve and Harrigan coming back on night 202 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:30.879 Side right after this quick break. 203 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:38.120 Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news Radio. 204 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:43.600 I'm delighted to introduce Stephen Harrigan. He's the author of 205 00:11:43.639 --> 00:11:47.320 a book called Sorrowful Mysteries, The Shepherd Children of Fatima 206 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:51.000 and the fate of the twentieth century. The book is 207 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:55.159 described as a powerful exploit exploration of the three Secrets 208 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:57.840 of Fatima and a man's journey grappling with his own faith. 209 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:00.799 Stephen Harrigan, Welcome to aide. How are you. 210 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:03.000 Thanks, Dan, It's great to be here. 211 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:05.840 I think we're both baby boomers, and I suspect we 212 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:09.360 learned of our Lady of Fatima, both in the same 213 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:12.639 way attending Catholic schools. For me, it was here in 214 00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:17.600 Massachusetts in elementary school in the late nineteen fifties. You 215 00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:22.759 were doing this in Texas at that time. It was 216 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:27.240 certainly something that intrigued me. I know it has intrigued 217 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:29.600 the world. You've written a book. It sounds to me 218 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:31.399 as if you're pretty skeptical of this. 219 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:36.320 Explain to us, well, I mean that's not the main reason. 220 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:39.720 That's not my main reason in telling the story of Adama. 221 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:43.559 I'm skeptical. I mean, you know, everybody has their own 222 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:47.840 degree of faith and how they what they believe or 223 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:50.960 what they don't believe. But for me, the most powerful 224 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:54.960 impulse to write this story for me was just because 225 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:58.919 it's a great story. It's the story of these three 226 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:03.120 little children who are in nineteen seventeen and Fatima Portugal 227 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:06.080 at the you know, at the hinge moment of the 228 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:09.840 twentieth century, we have an era of revolutions right at 229 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:15.279 the beginning of the of the flu pandemic of nineteen eighteen, 230 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.600 which killed two of the children. It's the story of 231 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:21.720 you know, it's the story of faith, It's the story 232 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:27.799 of imagination and politics and all the kind of main 233 00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:31.159 events of the twentieth century are sort of this is 234 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:33.279 a lens through which you could look at them and 235 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:39.200 how faith and the kind of political transitions and turmoil 236 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:42.879 of the twentieth century, you know, changed everybody. So I 237 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:48.000 came into it as a former practicing Catholic. Now I'm 238 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:51.519 kind of like just I'm somebody who's never going to 239 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:54.399 get the Catholicism out of my system and don't really 240 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:59.679 want to. But it's not a devout book. But it's 241 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:01.759 not a debugging book either. 242 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:05.600 Okay. Yeah. One of the things that I remembered about 243 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:10.159 learning about Fatima, and you know much more about this 244 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:13.919 than I do, so let me let me set that out. 245 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:19.159 Your researched it done in book et cetera. I thought 246 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:25.960 that it's some point I was told or I learned, 247 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:32.159 that World War Two started on December seventh, which was 248 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:37.960 either a Holy Day of obligation or close to a 249 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:42.120 Holy Day of obligation December seventh, and then it ended 250 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:46.559 on August fifteenth, nineteen forty five, which was in the 251 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:48.639 Catholic Church. I think it's the Feast of the Assumption. 252 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:50.080 If I'm not mistaken. 253 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:58.200 Those I can't answer. I can't speak to that, really, 254 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:01.039 I do can. I can hear you that World War 255 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:04.600 two is bound up in the in the in the 256 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:06.559 story of Fatimah. 257 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:10.080 Tell us how that was what I was I was 258 00:15:10.120 --> 00:15:13.080 struggling with my question that explain to us. Stephen, go 259 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:13.519 right ahead. 260 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.039 I hadn't heard those those dates, but I'll have to 261 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:18.960 check it, because that actually is pretty interesting. But you 262 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:23.320 know the in nineteen seventeen, on May thirteenth, nineteen seventeen, 263 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:29.039 these three children, Lucia Santo's her cousins Francisco and Jacinta Marto, 264 00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:32.440 said that they saw the Virgin Mary in this field 265 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:35.440 in Portugal. And one of the things that the Virgin 266 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:38.879 Mary said was, you know this this is during World 267 00:15:38.919 --> 00:15:42.360 War one, and she said that and worst war will 268 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:45.919 come if people don't pray the Rosary and pray and 269 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:51.440 specifically for the conversion of Russia to Christianity, and so, 270 00:15:53.320 --> 00:15:57.080 you know, world War two did come. People believe some 271 00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:01.639 people believe that the Virgin Mary predicted that at I mean, 272 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:04.200 there's all sorts of you could get into, way into 273 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:07.559 the weeds about exactly what date World War one world 274 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:10.799 War two started, and who was pope then, and whether 275 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:14.200 her prophecies were accurate or not. But it certainly is 276 00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:16.720 true that both World War One and World War Two 277 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:21.840 were important parts of the of the Fatima story. And 278 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:25.919 you know, there was a you probably grew up like me, 279 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:28.200 if it sounds like we had some of the same 280 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:31.559 experiences at the same age. You probably heard about the 281 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:34.600 Fatima Letter or the Third Secret of Fatima. 282 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:38.159 Yeah, and I never figured out what that was. 283 00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:42.080 No, Yeah, I mean a lot of people were very 284 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:46.120 puzzled by it and what it was was. And this 285 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:49.120 is partly what drove me to write the book, because 286 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:51.879 we were these little kids in Catholic school in the 287 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:56.279 late nineteen fifties and we were told that that Sister 288 00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:01.440 Lucia then had written down prophecy that was supposed to 289 00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:04.799 be opened in nineteen sixty that would tell the fate 290 00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:08.160 of the world. And remember this was right at the 291 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:10.880 height of the Cold War, when people were terrified. We 292 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:13.400 were all doing duck and cover exercise. 293 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:15.039 Under the desk, remembered well. 294 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:20.720 And so in our school, the nun who was teaching us, 295 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:24.319 we asked her, you know, nineteen sixty finally came and 296 00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:27.200 we were desperate to know what this letter said. And 297 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:30.200 she told us, well, the Pope took it out of 298 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.359 the envelope, read it, said it was too horrible for 299 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:35.559 anybody to read, and put it back in the envelope 300 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:37.799 and sent it away into the archives of the Vatican. 301 00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:43.440 So the whole world was disappointed. Would say it would 302 00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:45.480 be the wrong term. The whole world was sort of 303 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:50.680 traumatized already by what was happening, and then this information 304 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:55.799 that we couldn't know the third secret or the contents 305 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:58.000 of the fathom the letter really terrified it. 306 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:00.200 Well, you know the funny thing about it is you 307 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.559 compare them to, for example, the Kennedy files, or the 308 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:08.000 Epstein files, or the Robert F. Kennedy assassination files of 309 00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:10.960 the Martin Luther King. A lot of us feel there's 310 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:13.839 war to all of those that have never that's never 311 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:16.039 gotten out. It seems as if not only did the 312 00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:21.400 Church disappoint, but also the government's disappoint. Just coming back 313 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:25.960 to the Catholic Holy Days of obligation. World War two, 314 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.359 I mean, obviously started in September one, nineteen thirty nine, 315 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:33.720 in Germany and Russian invaded Poland. But US involvement started 316 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:39.640 in December. And if I'm not mistaken, well I'm not mistaken. 317 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:42.440 Pearl Harbor occurred on a Sunday, and it may have 318 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:47.200 been that we declared war the following day, which happens 319 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:50.759 to be a holy day in the Catholic Church, the 320 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:56.240 Maaculal Conception. And then it did end with MacArthur accepting 321 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:01.440 the signatures of the japan Niece on the deck of 322 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:05.519 the USS Missouri, which was August fifteenth, which is in 323 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:09.160 fact the Assumption in the Catholic Church. So I think 324 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:13.480 that those days starting at the beginning of the end. 325 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:18.319 Maybe there was misinformation, but I think that is where 326 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.200 World War II got wrapped up in all of this. 327 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:27.200 And also August in twenty seventeen, the Russian Revolution was starting. 328 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:31.000 Yeah, the Russian Revolution. Also a Portuguese revolution had started. 329 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:35.160 You know several years earlier which was very similar in 330 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:41.000 which a secular government was taking over basically a Catholic country, 331 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.440 and so there were all sorts of political turmoil going on, 332 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:48.079 which I think helped kind of create the interest in 333 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:49.400 Fatima at the beginning. 334 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:58.079 Yeah, it's and again I'm still interested, you know, all 335 00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:03.240 of In all of this, I sort of leave it 336 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.279 to the concept of faith either you you know, have 337 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:10.720 a level of faith that allows you to say, well, 338 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:15.240 something happened. I thought that there were once the apparitions 339 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:19.000 occurred on those success of thirteen days of the month, 340 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:22.720 that the first two or three occurred just with these 341 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:25.920 children coming back and telling the stories to their friends. 342 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:29.319 But by October thirteenth, was there not a lot of 343 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:32.240 people who saw some stuff in the sky. 344 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:38.240 Absolutely. On October thirteenth, nineteen seventeen, which was the sixth apparition, 345 00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.720 the Virgin appeared and promised she would come back every 346 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:46.440 on the thirteenth of every month for six months. And 347 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:51.160 she promised to do it to promise Lucia. And we 348 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:54.359 all know all this comes from Lucia Santos. You know, 349 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:57.759 she's the one who wrote down these crossicles and these memoirs. 350 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:00.759 And so she said that the Virgin told her that 351 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:03.440 she would perform the miracle so that all would believe 352 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:05.960 on that day. So on that day, you know, there 353 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.200 was this field where where the Santo's families and the 354 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:12.680 Marto families were grazing their sheep. They had been trampled 355 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:16.039 into mud, you know, months before because of all the tourists, 356 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:19.200 all the people came just to see what was going on. 357 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.400 So they were all people say that it's hard to 358 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.240 know exactly how many people were there. Possibly as many 359 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:30.000 as seventy thousand, possibly even more had come to see. 360 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:35.559 They were expecting a miracle, and it was pouring down rain. 361 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:38.440 You know, the mud was like ankle deep. Everybody was 362 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:43.319 soaked to the bone. And all at once the sky cleared, 363 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:47.240 and you know how the sky gets really after a rainstorm 364 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:51.079 suddenly cleared, the sky can look really sort of luminous 365 00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:56.480 and mysterious. I think that happened there and then, And 366 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:00.200 remember Lucia and and and her two cousin and so 367 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:03.279 were the only people who could see the apparition. Nobody 368 00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:07.039 else COULDRCT so they had to take Lucia's the children's 369 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:12.279 word for it. And Lucia said look at the sky, 370 00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:15.599 and at least seventy thousand people looked up at the sky, 371 00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:18.119 and what they saw, or what many of them say 372 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:23.799 they saw, was this atmospheric miracle, as it's been termed, 373 00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:26.240 where the sun seemed to dance in the sky and 374 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:30.200 drop drop toward the ground and scatter all these sort 375 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:34.000 of prismatic colors all over everything. And that was that's 376 00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:37.240 called the miracle of the Sun. And you can argue 377 00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:40.599 it any way you want, you know, depending on your 378 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:44.880 level of faith or your level of pragmatic you know, interpretation. 379 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.279 But something happened that day, and you know it was 380 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.920 certainly atmospheric. And you know, so there are people who 381 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:55.079 say that it was a ufo or people who say 382 00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:57.880 it was a SunDog or a peer heelium and all 383 00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:01.839 these kind of atmospheric effects, but clearly something did happen, 384 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:08.720 and that kind of cemented the reverence and the excitement 385 00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:11.200 that people felt toward toward this place. 386 00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:17.480 Wow, fascinating. Stephen Harrigan, the book is Sorrowful Mysteries, The Shepherd, 387 00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.559 Children of Fatima and the Fate of the twentieth century. 388 00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:24.359 If people have listened to this interview, and I hope 389 00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:27.400 you posted on your website. I think a lot of 390 00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:30.480 people will be sufficiently intrigued that they will want to 391 00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:31.680 buy this book. 392 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:36.119 And thank you. 393 00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:39.359 Yeah. And I was just going to say, is it's 394 00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:42.079 best I assume in this day and age, just go 395 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:47.160 to Amazon and typing your name Stephen Harrigan h A 396 00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:52.559 W R I G A N spells Harrogan Sorrowfulness, Shepherd. 397 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:56.200 I'm sure you've heard that song your entire life, The Shepherd, 398 00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:58.839 Children of Fatima and the Fate of the twentieth Century. 399 00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:02.319 I'm more intrigued, and I'll be getting the book, and 400 00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:04.920 I'm sure many of my audience will as well. And 401 00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:08.160