Speaker 1: It's Night with Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Madison. As we start a Thursday night,
Speaker 2: we are more than halfway through this week and the
Speaker 2: warm weather has returned to New England, which is a
Speaker 2: good thing. I'm sure in a few warm days we'll
Speaker 2: obvious saying it are kind of cool off. But that's
Speaker 2: the way we do it in New England. We complain
Speaker 2: about the weather, whatever it is. My name is Dan Ray,
Speaker 2: as Madison indicated, the host of Nightside with Dan Ray.
Speaker 2: Dan Cantano is back in the control room tonight. Rob
Speaker 2: Brooks a little bit under the weather. He'll be just fine,
Speaker 2: And if we don't see him tomorrow night, I'm sure
Speaker 2: he'll be back on Monday. Marita aka Lady Lightning comes
Speaker 2: back on Monday as well, so we'll have everybody together
Speaker 2: with us on Monday. But we are working through the week. Nonetheless,
Speaker 2: we have an interesting set of topics coming up tonight.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about wrapping up the second trial
Speaker 2: of Karen Reid. That will be actually the trial has
Speaker 2: in effect make pleaded both the defense and the prosecution
Speaker 2: of rest that we'll be talking with Attorney Boston longtime
Speaker 2: criminal defense attorneying Phil Tracy at nine o'clock about his
Speaker 2: comparisons to between the two trials, the first one a
Speaker 2: year ago that ended in a hung jury in the
Speaker 2: second one, which we'll have closing arguments tomorrow and may
Speaker 2: get to the jury and there could be some jury
Speaker 2: deliberations even tomorrow as early as tomorrow. Don't think we'll
Speaker 2: have a decision really quickly, but I'll lead that question
Speaker 2: to Phil Tracy. And then later on we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about the immigration crisis and how do we get
Speaker 2: to this point. It's a pretty interesting process we'll walk
Speaker 2: through later on. But we have four very interesting guests
Speaker 2: with topics of current relevance. We're going to start off
Speaker 2: with doctor Zoey Weis Weiss. She is a doctor infectious
Speaker 2: disease physician, director of the microbiology Laboratory at Toft's Medical Center,
Speaker 2: which is great close to home here. Doctor Weiss, Welcome
Speaker 2: to KNIGHT'SID. I'm not sure if we've had you on before.
Speaker 2: I think not. How are you tonight?
Speaker 3: I'm good, I have not been on before, and I'm
Speaker 3: happy to be here.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm happy to have you here. We're going to
Speaker 2: talk about salmonella. Hee not the sort of thing that
Speaker 2: we want to talk about going into the weekend. But
Speaker 2: eggs were really expensive for a long time. A lot
Speaker 2: of people were not buying eggs. Now that the prices
Speaker 2: have come down a little bit. Yikes. Salmonella thankfully so
Speaker 2: far not in New England. But tell us what salmonilla
Speaker 2: is and how we can avoid exposure to it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, salmonella is a specific type of bacteria causes
Speaker 3: food born illness and it causes an intestinal infection. We
Speaker 3: sometimes call it salmonellosis, and it's typically spread by contaminated
Speaker 3: food water like contact with animals. We call it kind
Speaker 3: of a fecal oral root. So you know, if there's
Speaker 3: any kind of poor sanitation issues, we're any kind of
Speaker 3: fecal matter can get into food sources and that can
Speaker 3: contaminate the food and cause you know, salmonella infection. And
Speaker 3: so there have been some cases of salmonell infection related
Speaker 3: to eggs recently, as you were talking about, and then
Speaker 3: earlier this month there was a cucumber or last month
Speaker 3: a cucumber recall as well from salmonella.
Speaker 2: How do they isolate the source? Obviously, certain people show
Speaker 2: up I assume with some symptoms, they must do some
Speaker 2: sort of an analysis of the symptoms, and they they
Speaker 2: were able to say, you.
Speaker 3: Love this question, you what I love this question. So
Speaker 3: what happens is that somebody comes goes to a hospital
Speaker 3: or a healthcare center with diarrhea some sort of you know,
Speaker 3: food borne illness, and they are able to detect the
Speaker 3: salmonella in the stool, for example. Then they'll send it
Speaker 3: to the Department of Public Health, and public health labs
Speaker 3: will do genetic sequencing of the salmonella, and then they'll
Speaker 3: upload it into a giant database that is overseen by
Speaker 3: the CDC called pulse NEET, and the CDC will be
Speaker 3: able to track in real time whether these salmonel cases
Speaker 3: are related to each other. So based on how genetically
Speaker 3: related the different organisms are, they're say, okay, like this
Speaker 3: person in California and this person in Rhode Island both
Speaker 3: had the same salmonella strain, and therefore there might be
Speaker 3: you know, some sort of risk that there's an outbreak.
Speaker 3: And then so they'll contact those people and try to
Speaker 3: trace it back.
Speaker 2: So they will try to determine a commonality. So not
Speaker 2: only will they do the science, the lab work but
Speaker 2: then they will reach out to these people and say, Okay,
Speaker 2: where have you been, what have you been exposed to? Now,
Speaker 2: in this particular instance, it's seventy people across seven states
Speaker 2: have been sick and due to a salmonella outbreak. I
Speaker 2: assume salmonella must be rare that when somehow, some way
Speaker 2: the red flag goes up we got a salmonella case
Speaker 2: here in Wyoming, they're able to enter that into computer
Speaker 2: and find out if there are any other recent salmonella cases.
Speaker 2: If seventy people have basically alerted public health authorities to
Speaker 2: this outbreak, that's a fairly small number in comparison to
Speaker 2: the population of these ten or so states Arizona, California, Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska,
Speaker 2: New Mexico, divide of Washington, and Wyoming. That's a wide
Speaker 2: swath of land of geography that they.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it speaks exactly, yeah, exactly to the
Speaker 3: fact that all hospitals in the United States are required
Speaker 3: to send their salmonella samples to their Department of Public
Speaker 3: Health LOBS, and all of these hospitals are connected to
Speaker 3: the CDC. So there's a there's a there's an effort
Speaker 3: to make sure that you know, anytime salmonella is isolated,
Speaker 3: we're capturing it. And it's true that it's rarely picked up.
Speaker 3: I mean someone has to be sick enough to go
Speaker 3: to the hospital or to see the doctor. Lots of
Speaker 3: people probably get salmonella, and for the most part, most
Speaker 3: people who have a normal immune system otherwise healthy. You know,
Speaker 3: they might have a few days of naze, vomiting, diarrhea,
Speaker 3: but they wouldn't necessarily go to the doctor. So the
Speaker 3: only people were really capturing are the ones who end
Speaker 3: up getting you know, seen in the healthcare setting. So
Speaker 3: it's probably the number of people affected are much larger,
Speaker 3: but the ones who are capturing is you know, smaller population.
Speaker 2: Now, I'm sure that the having studied Latin in high school,
Speaker 2: that the word celmanella somehow comes from the Latin. I
Speaker 2: think it's kind of unfair to salmon salmonella. Agree, it
Speaker 2: looks to me pretty close to salmon. Again, how did
Speaker 2: they How has this been a disease that's I assume
Speaker 2: has been with us forever. This is not something that's
Speaker 2: new on the disease chart, right.
Speaker 3: So, actually, the word salmonelle was named after a doctor
Speaker 3: who's a veterinary pathologist named Daniel Elmer Salmon. I don't
Speaker 3: know if you know Salmon or Simon or however. And
Speaker 3: it's been known for a long time, nineteen hundreds. I
Speaker 3: think many people have heard of the term typhoid, like
Speaker 3: typhoid mary for example.
Speaker 4: History.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so salmonella. One of the species of salmonella
Speaker 3: is Salmonella typhee, which causes typhoid fever, mostly in countries
Speaker 3: that have like underdeveloped you know, water, clean water infrastructure.
Speaker 3: And then the salmonella that we see here or something
Speaker 3: usually species called salmonella and enterica is related. The disease
Speaker 3: is not as severe, it's more self limiting, and but
Speaker 3: they're related. So people have known about salmonella for a
Speaker 3: long time.
Speaker 2: And I assume the commonality that they've established with all
Speaker 2: of these people is they must have figured out that
Speaker 2: all of them had purchased these eggs from this company,
Speaker 2: which apparently sold their eggs wholesale to restaurants and retailers
Speaker 2: in these states. I assume that's how they were able
Speaker 2: to say this is an egg born correct.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And it's a lot of work. It takes a lot
Speaker 3: of work to figure out what everybody was exposed to
Speaker 3: and I and you know, and salmonella is relatively easy
Speaker 3: because the onset of disease could be within hours to
Speaker 3: a few days. So and the most common causes are
Speaker 3: things like, you know, chicken, eggs, sometimes fresh vegetables, so
Speaker 3: you can ask people, you know, a list of those things.
Speaker 3: Some food borne illnesses, like there's one called listeria, can
Speaker 3: actually be late in or kind of stay in your
Speaker 3: body without causing disease for months before it becomes a problem.
Speaker 3: And those people can take a really long time to
Speaker 3: figure out what their original source is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's great, it's great to know. I'm glad
Speaker 2: that I know now that there was a doctor who
Speaker 2: discovered this doctor Salmon. Is that is how we you
Speaker 2: said he pronounced his name to him. So the Indians
Speaker 2: had a backup for a baseman in the sixties, Chico
Speaker 2: Simone as well, so his name was spelled the same way.
Speaker 2: I thought it might have been named after him, but no,
Speaker 2: but that's true. That's true. I have these sports names
Speaker 2: in the back of my head. You can look it up.
Speaker 2: Chico Simone s a L M O. N. Kind of
Speaker 2: a backup for a spaseman. Not a great player, but
Speaker 2: played in the major leagues. Doctor wise, you're a major
Speaker 2: leaguer as far as I am concerned. I really love
Speaker 2: your enthusiasm for this job. But I love the way
Speaker 2: that you sort of worked through the minefield of explanation
Speaker 2: of things so that nobody got too grossed out. So
Speaker 2: thank you yes, well yeah, no, absolutely, but thank you
Speaker 2: very much. You were really great and I hope we
Speaker 2: can get your back. And by the way, just to
Speaker 2: pin it, this was a California based egg distributor and
Speaker 2: I guess the name of according to the US Center
Speaker 2: for Disease Control. I'm just clicking on it here and
Speaker 2: seeing if the uh if the company uh in August
Speaker 2: sixth Egg Company, August Egg Company. Okay, August egg Company.
Speaker 2: They were the source. So if you can figure out
Speaker 2: if your eggs are from the August Egg Company, and
Speaker 2: I have no idea how you.
Speaker 3: Do that, they get told under other brand names like
Speaker 3: Clover First Street Organics, market Side, Sun Harvest, So you
Speaker 3: really have to look and see, you know, is your
Speaker 3: is this a the wider distributor August egg Company?
Speaker 2: Well? You know something again, you you you just even
Speaker 2: answered questions. I wasn't smart enough to ask that. I'm impressed.
Speaker 2: Doctor Zoe Weiss, infectious disease physician, director of the Microbiology
Speaker 2: Laboratory at Tufts Medical Center. I really enjoyed what I
Speaker 2: thought was not going to be an enjoyable conversation. Thanks
Speaker 2: so much for your time tonight. Okay, thank you, my pleasure. Thanks,
Speaker 2: good night. Well we get back when we talk with
Speaker 2: an author whose name is Stephen Harrigan. He's author of
Speaker 2: a book called Sorrowful Mysteries, The Shepherd Children of Fatima
Speaker 2: and the Fate of the twentieth Century. It's going to
Speaker 2: be an interesting conversation. I think what I've read, I
Speaker 2: haven't read the book. I think he's pretty skeptical about
Speaker 2: all of this. There's a lot of people have a
Speaker 2: right to be I'm someone who is as a person
Speaker 2: of faith, wants to believe, and given a choice, I
Speaker 2: give faith the benefit of the doubt. We'll have a
Speaker 2: good conversation with Steve and Harrigan coming back on night
Speaker 2: Side right after this quick break.
Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2: I'm delighted to introduce Stephen Harrigan. He's the author of
Speaker 2: a book called Sorrowful Mysteries, The Shepherd Children of Fatima
Speaker 2: and the fate of the twentieth century. The book is
Speaker 2: described as a powerful exploit exploration of the three Secrets
Speaker 2: of Fatima and a man's journey grappling with his own faith.
Speaker 2: Stephen Harrigan, Welcome to aide. How are you.
Speaker 5: Thanks, Dan, It's great to be here.
Speaker 2: I think we're both baby boomers, and I suspect we
Speaker 2: learned of our Lady of Fatima, both in the same
Speaker 2: way attending Catholic schools. For me, it was here in
Speaker 2: Massachusetts in elementary school in the late nineteen fifties. You
Speaker 2: were doing this in Texas at that time. It was
Speaker 2: certainly something that intrigued me. I know it has intrigued
Speaker 2: the world. You've written a book. It sounds to me
Speaker 2: as if you're pretty skeptical of this.
Speaker 5: Explain to us, well, I mean that's not the main reason.
Speaker 5: That's not my main reason in telling the story of Adama.
Speaker 5: I'm skeptical. I mean, you know, everybody has their own
Speaker 5: degree of faith and how they what they believe or
Speaker 5: what they don't believe. But for me, the most powerful
Speaker 5: impulse to write this story for me was just because
Speaker 5: it's a great story. It's the story of these three
Speaker 5: little children who are in nineteen seventeen and Fatima Portugal
Speaker 5: at the you know, at the hinge moment of the
Speaker 5: twentieth century, we have an era of revolutions right at
Speaker 5: the beginning of the of the flu pandemic of nineteen eighteen,
Speaker 5: which killed two of the children. It's the story of
Speaker 5: you know, it's the story of faith, It's the story
Speaker 5: of imagination and politics and all the kind of main
Speaker 5: events of the twentieth century are sort of this is
Speaker 5: a lens through which you could look at them and
Speaker 5: how faith and the kind of political transitions and turmoil
Speaker 5: of the twentieth century, you know, changed everybody. So I
Speaker 5: came into it as a former practicing Catholic. Now I'm
Speaker 5: kind of like just I'm somebody who's never going to
Speaker 5: get the Catholicism out of my system and don't really
Speaker 5: want to. But it's not a devout book. But it's
Speaker 5: not a debugging book either.
Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. One of the things that I remembered about
Speaker 2: learning about Fatima, and you know much more about this
Speaker 2: than I do, so let me let me set that out.
Speaker 2: Your researched it done in book et cetera. I thought
Speaker 2: that it's some point I was told or I learned,
Speaker 2: that World War Two started on December seventh, which was
Speaker 2: either a Holy Day of obligation or close to a
Speaker 2: Holy Day of obligation December seventh, and then it ended
Speaker 2: on August fifteenth, nineteen forty five, which was in the
Speaker 2: Catholic Church. I think it's the Feast of the Assumption.
Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 5: Those I can't answer. I can't speak to that, really,
Speaker 5: I do can. I can hear you that World War
Speaker 5: two is bound up in the in the in the
Speaker 5: story of Fatimah.
Speaker 2: Tell us how that was what I was I was
Speaker 2: struggling with my question that explain to us. Stephen, go
Speaker 2: right ahead.
Speaker 5: I hadn't heard those those dates, but I'll have to
Speaker 5: check it, because that actually is pretty interesting. But you
Speaker 5: know the in nineteen seventeen, on May thirteenth, nineteen seventeen,
Speaker 5: these three children, Lucia Santo's her cousins Francisco and Jacinta Marto,
Speaker 5: said that they saw the Virgin Mary in this field
Speaker 5: in Portugal. And one of the things that the Virgin
Speaker 5: Mary said was, you know this this is during World
Speaker 5: War one, and she said that and worst war will
Speaker 5: come if people don't pray the Rosary and pray and
Speaker 5: specifically for the conversion of Russia to Christianity, and so,
Speaker 5: you know, world War two did come. People believe some
Speaker 5: people believe that the Virgin Mary predicted that at I mean,
Speaker 5: there's all sorts of you could get into, way into
Speaker 5: the weeds about exactly what date World War one world
Speaker 5: War two started, and who was pope then, and whether
Speaker 5: her prophecies were accurate or not. But it certainly is
Speaker 5: true that both World War One and World War Two
Speaker 5: were important parts of the of the Fatima story. And
Speaker 5: you know, there was a you probably grew up like me,
Speaker 5: if it sounds like we had some of the same
Speaker 5: experiences at the same age. You probably heard about the
Speaker 5: Fatima Letter or the Third Secret of Fatima.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I never figured out what that was.
Speaker 5: No, Yeah, I mean a lot of people were very
Speaker 5: puzzled by it and what it was was. And this
Speaker 5: is partly what drove me to write the book, because
Speaker 5: we were these little kids in Catholic school in the
Speaker 5: late nineteen fifties and we were told that that Sister
Speaker 5: Lucia then had written down prophecy that was supposed to
Speaker 5: be opened in nineteen sixty that would tell the fate
Speaker 5: of the world. And remember this was right at the
Speaker 5: height of the Cold War, when people were terrified. We
Speaker 5: were all doing duck and cover exercise.
Speaker 2: Under the desk, remembered well.
Speaker 5: And so in our school, the nun who was teaching us,
Speaker 5: we asked her, you know, nineteen sixty finally came and
Speaker 5: we were desperate to know what this letter said. And
Speaker 5: she told us, well, the Pope took it out of
Speaker 5: the envelope, read it, said it was too horrible for
Speaker 5: anybody to read, and put it back in the envelope
Speaker 5: and sent it away into the archives of the Vatican.
Speaker 5: So the whole world was disappointed. Would say it would
Speaker 5: be the wrong term. The whole world was sort of
Speaker 5: traumatized already by what was happening, and then this information
Speaker 5: that we couldn't know the third secret or the contents
Speaker 5: of the fathom the letter really terrified it.
Speaker 2: Well, you know the funny thing about it is you
Speaker 2: compare them to, for example, the Kennedy files, or the
Speaker 2: Epstein files, or the Robert F. Kennedy assassination files of
Speaker 2: the Martin Luther King. A lot of us feel there's
Speaker 2: war to all of those that have never that's never
Speaker 2: gotten out. It seems as if not only did the
Speaker 2: Church disappoint, but also the government's disappoint. Just coming back
Speaker 2: to the Catholic Holy Days of obligation. World War two,
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously started in September one, nineteen thirty nine,
Speaker 2: in Germany and Russian invaded Poland. But US involvement started
Speaker 2: in December. And if I'm not mistaken, well I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2: Pearl Harbor occurred on a Sunday, and it may have
Speaker 2: been that we declared war the following day, which happens
Speaker 2: to be a holy day in the Catholic Church, the
Speaker 2: Maaculal Conception. And then it did end with MacArthur accepting
Speaker 2: the signatures of the japan Niece on the deck of
Speaker 2: the USS Missouri, which was August fifteenth, which is in
Speaker 2: fact the Assumption in the Catholic Church. So I think
Speaker 2: that those days starting at the beginning of the end.
Speaker 2: Maybe there was misinformation, but I think that is where
Speaker 2: World War II got wrapped up in all of this.
Speaker 2: And also August in twenty seventeen, the Russian Revolution was starting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the Russian Revolution. Also a Portuguese revolution had started.
Speaker 5: You know several years earlier which was very similar in
Speaker 5: which a secular government was taking over basically a Catholic country,
Speaker 5: and so there were all sorts of political turmoil going on,
Speaker 5: which I think helped kind of create the interest in
Speaker 5: Fatima at the beginning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's and again I'm still interested, you know, all
Speaker 2: of In all of this, I sort of leave it
Speaker 2: to the concept of faith either you you know, have
Speaker 2: a level of faith that allows you to say, well,
Speaker 2: something happened. I thought that there were once the apparitions
Speaker 2: occurred on those success of thirteen days of the month,
Speaker 2: that the first two or three occurred just with these
Speaker 2: children coming back and telling the stories to their friends.
Speaker 2: But by October thirteenth, was there not a lot of
Speaker 2: people who saw some stuff in the sky.
Speaker 5: Absolutely. On October thirteenth, nineteen seventeen, which was the sixth apparition,
Speaker 5: the Virgin appeared and promised she would come back every
Speaker 5: on the thirteenth of every month for six months. And
Speaker 5: she promised to do it to promise Lucia. And we
Speaker 5: all know all this comes from Lucia Santos. You know,
Speaker 5: she's the one who wrote down these crossicles and these memoirs.
Speaker 5: And so she said that the Virgin told her that
Speaker 5: she would perform the miracle so that all would believe
Speaker 5: on that day. So on that day, you know, there
Speaker 5: was this field where where the Santo's families and the
Speaker 5: Marto families were grazing their sheep. They had been trampled
Speaker 5: into mud, you know, months before because of all the tourists,
Speaker 5: all the people came just to see what was going on.
Speaker 5: So they were all people say that it's hard to
Speaker 5: know exactly how many people were there. Possibly as many
Speaker 5: as seventy thousand, possibly even more had come to see.
Speaker 5: They were expecting a miracle, and it was pouring down rain.
Speaker 5: You know, the mud was like ankle deep. Everybody was
Speaker 5: soaked to the bone. And all at once the sky cleared,
Speaker 5: and you know how the sky gets really after a rainstorm
Speaker 5: suddenly cleared, the sky can look really sort of luminous
Speaker 5: and mysterious. I think that happened there and then, And
Speaker 5: remember Lucia and and and her two cousin and so
Speaker 5: were the only people who could see the apparition. Nobody
Speaker 5: else COULDRCT so they had to take Lucia's the children's
Speaker 5: word for it. And Lucia said look at the sky,
Speaker 5: and at least seventy thousand people looked up at the sky,
Speaker 5: and what they saw, or what many of them say
Speaker 5: they saw, was this atmospheric miracle, as it's been termed,
Speaker 5: where the sun seemed to dance in the sky and
Speaker 5: drop drop toward the ground and scatter all these sort
Speaker 5: of prismatic colors all over everything. And that was that's
Speaker 5: called the miracle of the Sun. And you can argue
Speaker 5: it any way you want, you know, depending on your
Speaker 5: level of faith or your level of pragmatic you know, interpretation.
Speaker 5: But something happened that day, and you know it was
Speaker 5: certainly atmospheric. And you know, so there are people who
Speaker 5: say that it was a ufo or people who say
Speaker 5: it was a SunDog or a peer heelium and all
Speaker 5: these kind of atmospheric effects, but clearly something did happen,
Speaker 5: and that kind of cemented the reverence and the excitement
Speaker 5: that people felt toward toward this place.
Speaker 2: Wow, fascinating. Stephen Harrigan, the book is Sorrowful Mysteries, The Shepherd,
Speaker 2: Children of Fatima and the Fate of the twentieth century.
Speaker 2: If people have listened to this interview, and I hope
Speaker 2: you posted on your website. I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people will be sufficiently intrigued that they will want to
Speaker 2: buy this book.
Speaker 1: And thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I was just going to say, is it's
Speaker 2: best I assume in this day and age, just go
Speaker 2: to Amazon and typing your name Stephen Harrigan h A
Speaker 2: W R I G A N spells Harrogan Sorrowfulness, Shepherd.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you've heard that song your entire life, The Shepherd,
Speaker 2: Children of Fatima and the Fate of the twentieth Century.
Speaker 2: I'm more intrigued, and I'll be getting the book, and
Speaker 2: I'm sure many of my audience will as well. And
Speaker 2: I thought this was a great interview. I was ready
Speaker 2: to try to debate you on this, but you have
Speaker 2: made a really marvelous presentation that is a reportorial and
Speaker 2: journalistic and I appreciate it.
Speaker 5: And we can debate some other time after you read
Speaker 5: the book. Let's let's talk, which sounds great.
Speaker 2: Al right, Steven Eric, Are you still hanging out in
Speaker 2: Texas or No, you don't have a Texas accent.
Speaker 5: No, but kind of. I've been here most of my life,
Speaker 5: so it's about one hundred and twenty degrees.
Speaker 2: It's kind of cool night down in Texas. Then. Okay,
Speaker 2: Steven enjoyed talking with you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 5: Okay, Dan, great to talk to you very well.
Speaker 2: All Right, we have the news coming up, and right
Speaker 2: after that we're going to talk with Professor Peter kim I.
Speaker 2: We'll be talking about why Americans are losing trust in
Speaker 2: each other. I think that's going to be intriguing. Do
Speaker 2: stay with us. If you haven't gotten the new and
Speaker 2: improved iHeart app, go to the app store on your device,
Speaker 2: whatever it is. It's a tablet, it's a phone, it's
Speaker 2: a laptop and desktop. Pull down the iHeart app. Very simple.
Speaker 2: You can click on it, bring it down, make us
Speaker 2: your first preset WBZ, so we'll always just be a
Speaker 2: fingertip away. And there is a button on there called
Speaker 2: one tap. You can as a microphone button. You can
Speaker 2: leave us a thirty second no more thirty second comment
Speaker 2: and it will go directly to our control room. And
Speaker 2: once we get this up and running, we'll play these
Speaker 2: comments during the show, so you'll have two ways to
Speaker 2: talk to us, not only live on the telephone, but
Speaker 2: also through comments through what's called the one Tap on
Speaker 2: the iHeart. The new and improved. iHeart app back on
Speaker 2: Nightside run a little bit late right after this.
Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's NewsRadio.
Speaker 2: Welcome back. Joining us is a professor Peter Kim. He's
Speaker 2: a professor of management and organization and don't we need
Speaker 2: those at the USC Marshall School of Business, University of
Speaker 2: Southern California. Go Trojans the author of a book How
Speaker 2: Trust Works, The Science of Relationships are Built, Broken and Repaired.
Speaker 2: This book has been out for a year or two,
Speaker 2: but I think it's something we might like to take
Speaker 2: a look at. Professor Kim. Welcome to Night sid How
Speaker 2: are you?
Speaker 6: Thank you Dan. I'm doing great. It's great to s
Speaker 6: on the show with you.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much. Always great to have someone
Speaker 2: from USC. So America is losing trust in one another.
Speaker 2: According to a Pew Research Center report found that seventy
Speaker 2: one percent of respondents thought interpersonal trust confidence in their
Speaker 2: fellow citizens has waned over the last two decades. It's
Speaker 2: we're dealing with losing trust. To find what you think
Speaker 2: the Pew Research study actually quantified, I'm confused by that.
Speaker 6: Well, I think it's not just the Pew Research Center.
Speaker 6: It's a variety of surveys that have measured the level
Speaker 6: of trust not only in one another, but in our institutions,
Speaker 6: the government, financial institutions, almost every single one has found
Speaker 6: that those levels of trust has declined. And if we
Speaker 6: want to sort of agree on a simple definition of trust,
Speaker 6: it's our willingness to make ourselves vulnerable in situations involving risk, right,
Speaker 6: It's a psychological inclination to do that, and we're just
Speaker 6: less willing to do that nowadays.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I okay, So my theory, and I'd love
Speaker 2: to know what you think, is that it all comes
Speaker 2: back to the computers that we have. All of us
Speaker 2: are spending me included, too much time on my computer,
Speaker 2: less time in face to face personal relationships. And most
Speaker 2: of the things that I worry about are people hacking
Speaker 2: my computer, hacking my bank accounts, stealing my identities, all
Speaker 2: the things that have now come to our door because
Speaker 2: of computers and Mark Zuckerberg. So have I encapsulated the
Speaker 2: entire cause in about thirty seconds or my way off.
Speaker 6: Mark, Well, I agree that that's one of the major
Speaker 6: factors that's led to the decline in trust, and so
Speaker 6: that really gets to the fact that our trust in
Speaker 6: others is based on what we know about them and
Speaker 6: our perceptions of them as part of our group or
Speaker 6: parts of other groups. And I think one of the
Speaker 6: big things that the Internet has done has made it
Speaker 6: very easy to identify whatever particular subgroups that we most
Speaker 6: identify with and to differentiate back group from everything else
Speaker 6: in the world. And there's a lot of everything else
Speaker 6: in the world, and you know, those people those groups
Speaker 6: are seen as outsiders, as enemies, as not you know,
Speaker 6: on our side, and we have such a shallow perception
Speaker 6: of them. We don't really see them as individuals, and
Speaker 6: that keeps us from learning enough about them to see
Speaker 6: them as human beings, albeit you know, faulty in many ways,
Speaker 6: that they may have some reasons for us to trust them.
Speaker 2: So are you saying that most of us trust our
Speaker 2: inner circle. We trust the people who we can count
Speaker 2: on our two hands, who are our true friends, and
Speaker 2: maybe we trust some of our acquaintances. But people who
Speaker 2: we don't know we have an inherent suspicion of. I
Speaker 2: think that's what you just said. I want to make
Speaker 2: sure I understand it.
Speaker 6: I think that's right. Yeah, And so the people that
Speaker 6: are you know, it really gets to the very tribal,
Speaker 6: clan like side of us, right, that primitive brain. We
Speaker 6: want we want to find others that will be there
Speaker 6: for us, and you know, so our friends, our family,
Speaker 6: those that are close to us we see as those people.
Speaker 6: And then on the internet you can identify other groups
Speaker 6: that share those values that you might have, and it's
Speaker 6: easy to differentiate those from the people outside that group.
Speaker 6: One big factor that, one big thing that this does
Speaker 6: is that it creates a motivation to see the actions
Speaker 6: of those in our group and those outside our group differently.
Speaker 6: So if for some you know, people will inevitably let
Speaker 6: us down, but if it's our friends or family, then
Speaker 6: we will see those failures as mistakes. Right, they didn't
Speaker 6: mean to hurt us part of our group people. Yeah,
Speaker 6: they might have forgotten. They're just not very good at
Speaker 6: this sort of thing and so on. Right, So we
Speaker 6: come up with these reasons, and we're motivated to come
Speaker 6: up with those reasons in order to maintain those close
Speaker 6: relationships with those people. But for those that are outside
Speaker 6: of that group, we don't have those motivations. So it's
Speaker 6: easy to say that, oh that the exact same failures
Speaker 6: they're the result of them trying to take advantage of us,
Speaker 6: of them lacking morals and so on, and so that
Speaker 6: that difference in explanation for they've even this exact same
Speaker 6: failure can lead to much more serious problems.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you ascribe, you ascribe malign intent to those who
Speaker 2: you do not have close within your inner circle. Is
Speaker 2: I think what you're saying. So we could talk for
Speaker 2: hours on this. We could talk about people who have
Speaker 2: gone to computers and they have gotten into their political silos.
Speaker 2: They only have friends with whom they agree politically. They
Speaker 2: only listen to programs with which they agree politically, which
Speaker 2: has further again separated us into this tribe, that tribe,
Speaker 2: the red tribe or the blue tribe. What can we
Speaker 2: do in you know, forty five seconds or so, And
Speaker 2: I'm sure that you've asked, but this, as before, it
Speaker 2: probably takes a lot more than forty five seconds. What
Speaker 2: can individuals, what can society do to to basically turn
Speaker 2: this trend around? Because it's it's a trend which is
Speaker 2: troubling for me, and I think troubling for most people.
Speaker 6: Well, I think the first step is to move beyond
Speaker 6: the superficial caricature and see these people for who they
Speaker 6: are and realize that these attributions that we're making that
Speaker 6: they're not necessarily correct, right, And so we have this
Speaker 6: instinctive tendency to say this is a lack of integrity.
Speaker 6: You know, they intended to take advantage of us, But
Speaker 6: is that really true? And so the first step for
Speaker 6: us is to recognize that we have this bias and
Speaker 6: the kind of attribution we're making for the people outside
Speaker 6: our groups, and how that may not necessarily be correct.
Speaker 6: And so that would be the first step to get
Speaker 6: us to realize that those attributions may not be correct
Speaker 6: and to do the investigation necessary with an open mind
Speaker 6: to understand why things might have happened. Because most most failures,
Speaker 6: most violations of trust are multiply determined, right, There are
Speaker 6: lots of things that can lead to a failure, and
Speaker 6: so we need to be more open to those those
Speaker 6: reasons and too, you know, and we may still ultimately
Speaker 6: determine that they had you know, their various intent and
Speaker 6: so on, but not jumping to the gun. Okay, it's
Speaker 6: a very critical star.
Speaker 2: Professor kim let me mention. The book available I assume
Speaker 2: at Amazon, How trust Works, The Science of Relationships Are Built,
Speaker 2: Broken and Repaired. That is the book that I hope
Speaker 2: people get a chance to spend some time with. I
Speaker 2: appreciate you having spent some time with us tonight. Thank
Speaker 2: you very much, professor, and go Trojans.
Speaker 6: It's a pleasure. Thank you. Then it's good jeving me.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you. Professor Peter Kim. The book How
Speaker 2: Trust Works, The Science of Relationships Are Built, Broken and Repaired.
Speaker 2: We'll be back on Nightside and we're going to introduce
Speaker 2: you to an event that has never happened before. It's
Speaker 2: called Sweat a Palooser. We'll explain.
Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2: Now it's not often that here on Nightside we can
Speaker 2: introduce you to an event that has never happened before.
Speaker 2: I mean, the marathon has been running around here for
Speaker 2: what one hundred and twenty five years. However, you can
Speaker 2: go to the inaugural event of the sweat Apaloosa on Saturday,
Speaker 2: June twenty first, and here to explain exactly what we'll
Speaker 2: transpire at the first ever Sweat a Paloosa is Claric Culin.
Speaker 2: She's the Associate director of Culture and Experience at Seaport Boston.
Speaker 2: You know, Claire, I didn't even realize Seaport Boston had
Speaker 2: an associate director of Culture and Experience. That sounds like
Speaker 2: a pretty fun job up.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's very fun. It's also fun coming up
Speaker 4: with the names of things like Sweat of Palooza. It's
Speaker 4: a real catchy one that we came up with.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you, I hope you didn't like spend
Speaker 2: hours on that one, because I could have come up
Speaker 2: with that one pretty clear, pretty quickly, A swell.
Speaker 4: Right off the tongue too.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but what I'm saying you put anything in
Speaker 2: front of a bowling palooza, a golfing palooser. But I'm
Speaker 2: only teasing you. So the Sweat of Palooza. Tell us
Speaker 2: what it is. First of all, I think the name
Speaker 2: describes it, but drilled down a little bit for us.
Speaker 4: Oh, of course. Well, it's obviously a palooza, and it's
Speaker 4: our celebration of ten years of Seaport Sweat, which is
Speaker 4: the workout series that we host in Seaport right on
Speaker 4: Seaport Common. And ten years is a pretty long time
Speaker 4: to be running a workout series, so we're really excited
Speaker 4: and happy for the community that we formed along all
Speaker 4: those ten yures, so we wanted to post a palooza
Speaker 4: to celebrate. So we've got three amazing workout classes. We're
Speaker 4: bringing back some really popular instructors like Ticket by Eliza,
Speaker 4: Eliza Sharrazzi, who's actually been with us all ten years.
Speaker 4: We've got a yoga class with Go to Bermuda where
Speaker 4: an instructor has flown in from Bermuda to teach it.
Speaker 4: And then bron Volney also will be teaching broncor boot Camp.
Speaker 2: So now I don't spend a lot of time down
Speaker 2: the seaport, okay, because it's tough to get in and
Speaker 2: tough to get out. As Yogi Berra once said, no
Speaker 2: wonder nobody comes to this place. It's too crowded. But
Speaker 2: for those who live down there and who are seaport denizens,
Speaker 2: what have you been doing? Ten years of outdoor fitness classes?
Speaker 2: Is that what we're talking about, the tradition.
Speaker 4: Years of out door Ten years of outdoor fitness classes
Speaker 4: Monday through Thursday twice today we have five thirty and
Speaker 4: six thirty and Saturdays at ten at ten am. So really,
Speaker 4: if you live in the seaport, or go to the seaport.
Speaker 4: You can just cancel your gym membership for the entire
Speaker 4: summer because we run May through September.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you got to renew the membership from October
Speaker 2: through April. Okay, that's good. That cuts the thing down. Now.
Speaker 2: This is going to be on Saturday, June twenty first,
Speaker 2: which is not this Saturday. It's a week from Saturday,
Speaker 2: the first day of summer, perfectly timed, and the event
Speaker 2: goes from eleven in the morning until one and round
Speaker 2: the ten in the morning until one in the afternoon.
Speaker 2: For folks who don't normally hang in the seaport, we're
Speaker 2: in the seaport. Will this event be held.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So it's right at eighty five Northern Alve. We
Speaker 4: have a beautiful green space called Seaport Common. It's right
Speaker 4: next to the Current, which is our pop up shops.
Speaker 4: If you're familiar with Cisco Brewers, it's just a block
Speaker 4: down from there, so it's kind of like the central
Speaker 4: hub of Seaport. And there's tons to do after too.
Speaker 4: You can take one class, you can take all three.
Speaker 4: We've got green juices that go to Bermuda will also
Speaker 4: be offering our sponsor as General Brigham Health Plan will
Speaker 4: be giving out water and we'll have a bunch of
Speaker 4: amazing other giveaways as well, and then you can take
Speaker 4: one class or take three, grab a beer from Cisco
Speaker 4: after and have a beautiful seaport day.
Speaker 2: Well that's the seaport's doing well, right. I assume every
Speaker 2: time I do go down there, it's it's busy, busy, busy.
Speaker 2: It's it's certainly a far cry from what I knew
Speaker 2: as the seaport. It was Anthony's and Jimmy's restaurants pretty much.
Speaker 2: Not much.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we got We've got many more than that. Now.
Speaker 4: We just opened up in Island Creek Oyster Bar, which
Speaker 4: is which is very amazing. So you can also go
Speaker 4: eat some caveat after workout class if you want to,
Speaker 4: which is okay, an amazing idea.
Speaker 2: If you ask me, how's the how's the tea service
Speaker 2: out to seaport. I'm not someone who rides the tea
Speaker 2: very much, but if I was going out there, and
Speaker 2: if I wanted to go out there and take the
Speaker 2: tea in my sweats, what's what's the deal there?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can take the Red Line just the South
Speaker 4: station or Onnyline that goes to South Station and walk
Speaker 4: across the bridge and then take the Summer Street steps
Speaker 4: right down into Seaport. Or you can take the Silver Line,
Speaker 4: which is what I did every day for many many
Speaker 4: years when I commuted. Now I'm on the Commuter Rail,
Speaker 4: so I just walk from South Station, so super accessible.
Speaker 2: Well that's great, And the seaport is doing well? Is there?
Speaker 2: Has most of the seaport at this point been built out?
Speaker 2: I mean, I know that they're going to be renaming
Speaker 2: the convention Center the Thomas M. Menino Convention Center, which
Speaker 2: I think is a great honor and well deserved for
Speaker 2: Mayor Minino and his family. But has is the seaport,
Speaker 2: which I think very much was his dream? Has? I
Speaker 2: mean how much? How more stuff can you put out there?
Speaker 2: I mean he got hotels, great hotels, You've got great restaurants.
Speaker 2: You know, you have the Ray Flynn Pavilion out there
Speaker 2: with the ships coming in? Is it? Is it pretty much?
Speaker 2: Are there still things that are going to be new
Speaker 2: a year or two or three years from now?
Speaker 4: We can always fit something more. We've always got something
Speaker 4: new opening and something more to build.
Speaker 2: So you build a lead bridge to Ireland or having
Speaker 2: at this point.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that one might take a couple of years,
Speaker 4: but you're always opening something new. The current the pop
Speaker 4: up shops transition every.
Speaker 6: Couple of months.
Speaker 4: We've always got the holiday market every winter that gets
Speaker 4: built and then unbuilt, which feels like a miracle. So
Speaker 4: there's always something new happening.
Speaker 2: It was a big ice cream place I think that
Speaker 2: we previewed a year ago down there. I forget the
Speaker 2: name of it, but they were really good.
Speaker 4: Is at the Museum of ice Cream?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, how they do it?
Speaker 4: Oh they're doing great. Yeah, it's great. Kids slide right
Speaker 4: down the slide into a pool of sprinkles, so there's
Speaker 4: there's ice cream to eat and then also sprinkles to
Speaker 4: play and those sprinkles.
Speaker 2: Are not used later in the day on ice cream codes.
Speaker 4: Obviously, I'm definitely not good.
Speaker 2: Just to be sure, Just to be sure anyway, Claire
Speaker 2: kill Colin, thank you very much. Claire lovely to talk
Speaker 2: with the Associate Director of Culture and Experience at Seaport Boston.
Speaker 2: It's the sweat of Paloozer. Not this Saturday, nine days
Speaker 2: from now. On Saturday June twenty first, from ten to
Speaker 2: fifteen until one o'clock, it'll be a great day and
Speaker 2: you'll be able to eat your way. After you lose
Speaker 2: a few pounds, you can just have all sorts of
Speaker 2: goodies in the seaport. Thanks very much, Claire, appreciate it
Speaker 2: very much. I was in the hometown of your family,
Speaker 2: kill Colin Island not too long ago.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, yeah, that is the hometown in my family.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's lovely hometown. By the way, thanks so much.
Speaker 2: Thanks much. When we get back, thanks Claire. When we
Speaker 2: get back, right after the nine o'clock news, is going
Speaker 2: to be talking with Boston criminal defense attorney Phil Tracy.
Speaker 2: The trial, the second trial of Karen Reid is over.
Speaker 2: Opening arguments, or rather closing arguments tomorrow are from both
Speaker 2: the prosecution and the defense, and then it gets to
Speaker 2: the jury. And once the jury has it, they may
Speaker 2: be doing some deliberations. They could stay as late as
Speaker 2: five or five thirty tomorrow. They're supposed to start at
Speaker 2: eight thirty nine o'clock. I think the closing arguments will
Speaker 2: be finished by noon. There could be some activity tomorrow.
Speaker 2: We'll preview it with Phil Tracy right after the nine
Speaker 2: o'clock news