Speaker 1: And welcome.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 1: How are you welcome to the Big Podcast. It is Tuesday.
Today is the sixteenth day of September, year of our
lower twenty twenty five. My name is Tom Sullivan. So
we have Yeah, we've got a lot to go over today.
A big chunk of it will be from the Utah
County District Attorney on the charges that he's going to
lay on the shooter. I got a nice email from
Noel who said, don't call him the shooter, call him
the killer. All right, we'll call him the killer.
Speaker 3: We got that, But there's just.
Speaker 1: A lot of this is just so strange, and I
keep thinking, no, it's we're not changing. You know, eighty
percent of us are probably closer to each other than
we think. And there's maybe ten percent wacko birds on
the left and on the right, but most of us are.
And I'm starting to question my naive tay. Maybe we've
got first of all, Luigi Maggioni was in court today
here in New York. We'll get into that. We've got
socialism is on the rise. Now, capitalism still wins. Capitalism
is going down, Socialism is going up. I don't know
where that's going to wind up today. The FED has
day one of their two day meeting. Lisa Cook is there, yep,
because the judge said that you can't fire her, and
I told you mentioned it yesterday. There are real questions
about the documents that Bill Poulte said that she forged
or she lied on them about her mortgage applications, and
it's turning out where there's more reporting that says that
she did not. So she's got to have her day
in court to figure out what that is. But meantime
she's at the FED meeting. Was one of the governors today.
Robert Redford passed away today at the age of eighty
nine at his home. They're not saying from what, but man,
was he a big deal. I mean the list of
his movies. He was an actor, director. He got into
environmentalism in a big way. But the story he told
about that was kind of interesting. He was born and
raised in Los Angeles, and he said that back in
the thirties, and he said, growing up in La La
was the most beautiful city he's ever seen in the
whole wide world. It was great. And then he said
as he was starting, as he was growing up, he
saw La start to get skyscrapers and freeways and traffic
and smog and congestion, and he wanted to go to
where there was an abundance of nature, just the opposite
of what la Is is is an asphalt jungle. So
that's why he bought a place of Botsom Land and
in Park City, Utah, and the rest of it was
the rest of the stories there. So I mean he's
he has Sundance. He invented the Sundance Festival. He was
in all the President's Men, he was in the Sting,
he was in the Way We were, he was in
ordinary people, he was in the natural, he was in
Butch Cassidy, The Great Gatsby. I mean, he's kind of
one of the last of the old Hollywood actors who
were big deals back in the day. So God bless
Robert Redford passed away at the age of eighty nine.
All right, let's get in. I want to give you
also a layout of the what the podcast is about. Today,
the Utah County District Attorney gave almost a half an
hour ressertation on the charges that he's bringing this to
the killer, to the guy who who shot Charlie Kirk.
So it's long, but I will play the whole thing
for you. I cut off at the very end. He
went through ten fifteen minutes of thanking everybody. But it
was nice. But we have the meat for you of
what's going on with that particular case. Before we get
to that, though, let me get some of the other
news of the day. I'll start with Luigi Maggioni was
in court and the defense lawyer said that it's double
jeopardy because the Feds and the state are both coming
after him for murder. It's not exactly right. But this
was in state court today and the judge in the
case said, I agree with you. He threw out two
terrorism charges. They were dismissed. There were people out in
the street in front of the courthouse. It wasn't that many.
The camera focused in on them. I'm guessing thirty people,
and a lot of them were dressed in green, which
is the character in Mario Brothers Luigi. The character is
wears a green outfit. He's the kind hearted, cowardly Italian
plumber and the younger fraternal twin brother in sidekick Camrio.
So they really they're all dressed up in a in
a Luigi costume, which is kind of weird. But here's
some which some of them had to say about Luigi.
Speaker 3: Heujing Gonzoni is an innocent man who's been held up
by the rulinged glass an effort to make an example
of an ncent person so that the rest of you
don't dare to do anything that might be out of
iron with Why would you bring the weapon with you
to McDonald's. There's a lot of holes in the story,
so if they say that he's guilty, will have to
continue to fight. I think they framed him as a passy.
I don't think they targeted him, I said. I think
they said, Hey, here's a kid with good teeth and
nice hair, looks like that guy in the camera.
Speaker 4: Let's string him up. Do you consider him a hero? Yeah,
but he's charge of the murder.
Speaker 5: Oh well, we're hoping, in a glimmer of hope that
that changes.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not, I'm not jokes. Those people, the
voices you just heard, were dressed up in Luigi Mario
Brothers outfit, so kind of hard to take them seriously,
But I guess they have nothing else to do in life,
and maybe maybe they were Some of the people that
were asked in all these surveys, there's a there's a
big increase shocking, I can't believe people would say this,
but a big increase in tolerance for would you be
okay with murdering Elon Musk? Would you be okay with
murdering President Trump? And the numbers are much much bigger
than I would have imagined, And and they come out
where it shows people on the left are much more
positive about Yeah, we're fine with political violence or Musk
or Trump than people on the right. So we're into
this left versus right and who's more violent and who's
not and who it's all of this. People are keeping scorecards,
and I'm sure some of you have gone in and
researched about, oh, who shot this person and who'd committed
this crime? And were they on the left or on
the right. I'm not sure that's the right question. It
really comes down to me. What I'm concerned about is
what is your reaction when you hear about political violence?
Are you okay with it? Or does it make you
stop and go, Oh, that's not right, that's not right.
So it's right versus wrong. I know a lot of
people doing the scorecard thing. I'm more concerned about just
my names, my fellow countryman, are you okay with political violence?
I know it's a lot easier when you attach a
name like Elon Musk or Donald Trump to it, and
then you can go, oh yeah, you can elicit a
very strong response that way. But I'm not sure if
it's anything more than just a strong response but not reality.
Maybe I'm wrong, but our old friend Harry Enton, the statistician,
has been checking on socialism and how socialism is doing
in this country versus capitalism. Here's Harryton.
Speaker 6: Okay. You know, I'm not really surprised that Kathy Holko
decided to, in fact endorse Ramondani, because the fact is,
socialism is not a four letter word in democratic primaries,
not among democratic voters. It's a five letter word in
the minds of a lot of Democrats, that five letter
word being great. Look at this net popularity of socialist
among Democrats. You go back to twenty ten, it was
plus seven points. Look how high it is now up
like a rocket, up to plus thirty six points. That's
a jump of nearly thirty points on the net popularity
scale among Democrats in just fifteen years. And I was
looking at the polling from New York City, and what
you see is the clear plurality of New York democrat.
New York City democrats think the idea of having a
socialist mayor is a good idea, matching.
Speaker 3: What we see Nashally.
Speaker 6: The bottom line is socialism isn't a dirty word among
Democrats at this particular point. It's actually a word that
one attach democrats seem to like it. That's all of
a sudden, Socialism is now a five litter word great.
What I would say is capitalism in the mine of
democrats is a three litter word bad. What are we
talking about net popularity of socialism among democrats. Look at
this trend. It was plus eight points in twenty ten
on the positive side of the ledger. Look at where
we are in twenty twenty five, down falling through the
floor at minus thirteen points. That's a drop of over
twenty points in just fifteen years. So we see the
exact op It's a trend that we see at socialism
which is up and away. What we see with capitalism
is down, down, down, through the floor. This is where
the danger is for democrats, because if socialism plays in
democratic primaries, it does not play in the general electorate.
Speaker 4: What do we see going on here?
Speaker 6: Net popularity among all adults, Capitalism is on the positive
side of the ledger at plus twelve points, Socialism way
way way underwater at minus eighteen points. So that's capitalism
running away by thirty points over socialism. That is why
Republicans are thanking their lucky stars if Mondonnie in fact
wins the general election, because they feel like they can
play off of him, because socialism may play in New
York City among Democrats, but among the general electorate, Donald
Trump and the Republicans are saying, hey, look at the
socialist mayor in New York City. This is what we're
dealing with. So again, something may play in democratic primaries,
that may play in the very democratic city of New York,
but among the general electorate, Republicans are salivating at the
idea that they can run against a democratic socialist being
the mayor of New York City.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if things don't change, we're not that far
away from election day. Mondannie is way ahead of everybody else.
So and Kathy Hogle did, in fact throw an endorsement
to her. And what's interesting about that is that none
of the others are doing that. None of the others
are jumping on board. I mean, Hakeem Jeffries, a Brooklyn Congressman,
Chuck Schumer, Senator from New York. You can get on
the list of Democrats are not following her. But she
says that she is endorsing Mondannie because of Donald Trump
and the fact that Donald Trump is interfering by the
rumors were that he was offering some position to Eric Adams,
the mayor. None of that has been verified, but she's not.
She says, I have a lot of problems with what
man Donnie is for his issues, but I will endorse
him because I'm against Donald Trump. That's Kathy Hochele, the
governor of the state of New York. What a sad,
sad case. All right, you want to listen to this guy.
I've always thought that Bill Maher was a big Democrat.
I thought he hung out on the left side of
the aisle. Here's his observation about all of this.
Speaker 7: I don't want to talk. It's my main issue with them.
They and Charlie Kirk was a guy who like he
was always talking, and I talked to him here. You know,
the right wingers say what you want about them, but
they talk to you. They're not into this leftist think
that the left really has much more of a I
don't talk to you. I don't want to deal with you.
You're deplorable. I can't break bread with you. Yeah, that
attitude and like all the right wingers, they don't have
that attitude.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's Bill Maher. I don't know. Maybe maybe he's
coming around, but he very much is not impressed with
the fact that leftists apparently think that they are not
they're above you if you're on the right side of
the aisle. So let's get to the update today on
Charlie Kirk's case and the killer, the shooter is By
the time we're done with this today, he will be
a range. Well, he'll have his hearing. It'll be VI
virtual hearing in Utah County, which is basically or Utah.
So the DA there is a man by the name
of Jeff Gray and he is, you know, he's the
district attorney. And he came out today and laid out
the case that he is presenting before the judge following.
It's a very long it's twenty some minutes long. He
lays out the case detail. You will hear things I
hadn't heard before, and he's disclosing a lot of this information.
And then afterwards we'll have some reaction from various lawyers
out there on what mister Gray had to say. So
here is the district attorney from Utah County, Utah who's
presenting the case against the killer.
Speaker 8: The murder of Charlie Kirk is an American tragedy. Charlie
Kirk was murdered while engaging in one of our most
sacred and cherished American rights, the bedrock of our democratic republic,
the free exchange of ideas in a search for truth, understanding,
and a more perfect union. It is also an offense
against the state and to the peace and enjoyment of
the people of Utah and of all those who visit here.
But Charlie Kirk's murder also strikes a more personal and
intimate court. Charlie Kirk was first and foremost a husband
and a father to two beautiful young children. He was
a son, He was a brother and a friend. Like
all murders, the senseless and needless taking of Charlie Kirk's
life has shattered the lives of those he loved and
those who loved him, to Charlie's wife, Erica, his two
young children, his parents, his family, and his friends. I
express my sincere condolences and offer my heartfelt prayers on
your behalf. I also went to express my concern for
everyone who was at Charlie's Turning Point USA event at
the university or University, Utah Valley University, and all who
have been impacted by this tragedy. As County Attorney, I
am charged with bringing justice to those who offend our laws.
I am charged with bringing justice for those who harm
for those who are harmed. I am charged with bringing
justice for Charlie Kirk. I am committed to these aims.
I take this responsibility seriously. Today, after reviewing the evidence
that law enforcement has collected thus far, I am filing
a criminal information charging Tyler James Robinson, aged twenty two,
with the following crimes. Count one aggravated murder, a capital
offense for intentionally or knowingly causing the death of Charlie
Kirk under circumstances that created a great risk of death
to others. Count two felony discharge of a firearm causing
serious bodily injury, a first degree felony The state is
further alleging aggravating factors on counts one and two because
the defendant is believed to have targeted Charlie Kirk based
on Charlie Kirk's political expression and did so knowing that
children were present and would witness the homicide. The state
is also charging defendant with count three obstruction of justice,
a second degree felony for moving and concealing the rifle
used in the shooting. Count four obstruction of justice a
third degree, a second degree felony for disposing the clothing
he wore during the shooting. Count five witness tampering, a
third degree felony for directing his roommate to delete his
incriminating texts. Count six witness tampering a third degree felony
for directing his roommate to stay silent if police questioned him.
And Count seven commission of a violent offense in the
presence of a child a Class A misdemeanor for committing
homicide knowing that children were present and may have seen
or heard the murder, and did so based on Charlie
Kirk's political expression. Also following the press conference, I am
filing a notice of intent to seek the death penalty.
I do not take this decision lightly, and it is
a decision I have made independently as County Attorney, based
solely on the available evidence and circumstances and nature of
the crime. Because we are seeking the death penalty, the
defendant will continue to be held without ball in the
Utah County Jail. Turning to the ten page information, these
are the allegations. On September tenth, twenty twenty five, at
approximately twelve twenty three pm, Charlie Kirk was shot and
killed while speaking to a large crowd on the campus
of Utah Valley University in Orum, Utah. Police found the
suspected murder weapon, a Bold Action thirty six rifle, nearby.
Over the next approximately thirty three hours, police conducted a
manhunt for the shooter until the evening of September eleventh,
twenty twenty five, when Tyler James Robinson surrendered to police
at the Washington County Sheriff's side. DNA consistent with Robinson
was found on the rifles trigger. After shooting mister Kirk,
Robinson hid the gun, discarded the clothing he wore when
he fired the rifle, and told his roommate to delete
incriminating text messages and not talk to police. Children were
present at the time of the shooting. The shooting, Turning
Point USA, a nonprofit organization founded in twenty twelve by
Charlie Kirk, organized a public outdoor event to be held
at noon on September tenth, twenty twenty five, at UVU.
The event was the first in a series of similar
events to be held at college campuses nationwide. Mister Kirk
is a well known conservative activist, famous for these type
of events where he discusses various political issues and debates
with audience members. His events and comments have garnered a
significant number of supporters and drawn the ire of many
who disagree with his political views. The event at UVU
was announced foreign advance and garnered significant publicity and interest. Consequently,
several hundred people attended. Mister Kirk was interacting with the
crowd before the event officially got under way. Then, at
approximately noon, mister Kirk seated himself under a portable canopy
behind a table and microphone. He began speaking to the
crowd and fielding questions from attendees, a format mister Kirk
commonly used at his events. Mister Kirk allowed his questionnaires
to approach him a microphone position directly in front of him.
Mister Kirk's team members were very close to him on
his right and left, as well as some behind his canopy,
and others at various close locations near him. The large
crowd surrendered surrounded mister Kirk on three sides. Temporary metal
fencing separated tendees from mister Kirk by only a matter
of feet. Directly above and behind mister Kirk was the
UVU Hall of Flags, an indoor walkway spanning several hundred
feet with floor to ceiling glass windows which overlooked the
plaza where mister Kirk was seated. People were in the
walkway at the time of the shooting. Approximately fifteen minutes
into the event, mister Kirk was answering a question about
mass shootings by transgender individuals when a gunshot rang out.
The bullet struck mister Kirk in the neck. He slumped
to the ground almost immediately. The bullet's trajectory passed closely
to several other individuals beside mister Kirk, including the questioner
who was standing directly in front of mister Kirk. Children
were visible near mister Kirk's stage when he was shot.
Mister Kirk was rushed to a nearby hospital, where he
was declared deceased. The medical examiner's report is still pending
so UVU surveillance so at the moment of the shot,
a UVU police officer was watching the crowd from an
elevate advantage point. As soon as he heard the shot,
he began to scan the area for threats. Believing the
shot came from a rifle because of its sound, he
looked for potential sniper positions. He noted a roof area
approximately one hundred and sixty yards way Kirk as a
potential shooting position and rushed there to look for evidence.
The suspected shooting position is adjacent to an open, publicly
accessible walkway. To access the suspected location, a person must
climb over a railing and then drop to the roof
only slightly below. The uv officer climbed over the railing
and down onto the roof. He then walked to the
suspected shooting position and confirmed a clear shooting corridor between
the position and mister Kirk's seat. He also noticed markings
in the gravel rooftop consistent with a sniper having lain
on the roof impressions in the gravel potentially left by
the elbows, knees, and feet of a person in a
prone shooting position. Police reviewed surveillance from the case the
roof and discovered that it recorded an individual dressed in
dark clothing, crossed the railing from the public walkway and
drop onto the roof at approximately twelve to fifteen pm.
Although the individual moved out of the camera's view for
a short time, the camera again captured the individual running
across the roof and then low crawling to the area
the UBU officer recognized as where the suspected sniper had
dropped into a prone shooting position. After a short time,
which matches the known time of the shot, the individual
arose and ran across the roof to the northeast. This
discovery led to an intensive review of UBU surveillance recordings
to attempt to track and identify the suspect. Surveillance revealed
the following At approximately eleven fifty one am, the suspect
entered campus from the north. He is seen wearing a
black shirt with an American flag in the center, a
dark baseball cap, and large sunglasses. Throughout the surveillance, the
suspect keeps his head down and rarely raises his head
enough to get a clear image of his face. As
he proceeds across the campus, he is seen walking with
an unusual gait. The suspect walks with very little bending
in his right leg, consistent with a rifle being hidden
in his pants. This unusual gate continues until the suspect
is seen crossing the railway, off the open walkway and
onto the roof, where he leaves the camera's view. A
camera later captures the suspect as he runs across the
roof to the suspected shooting position. Immediately after the shot
was fired, A camera uptures the suspect running across the
roof carrying an item whose shape is consistent with a rifle.
The suspect is then seen climbing down from the roof.
He appears to drop the item he was carrying as
he hits the ground in a controlled fall. He then
picks up the item and runs toward the northeast end
of campus. Expanded crime scene investigation law enforcement officers followed
the suspect's escape path to the northeast end of campus,
where they believe the suspect left campus and entered a
wooded area. In that wooded area, investigators found a bolt
action rifle wrapped in a towel. The rifle contained one
spent round and three unspent rounds. This is consistent with
the fat officers observed at the time of and immediately
after the shootings. No shell casings were found on the roof,
suggests a bull action rather than an auto loading weapon,
and only a single round was fired. Each round in
the rifle contained an etched inscription as follows. The fired
cartridge was etched, No Tye's bulge? Oh woh, what's this?
The second cartridge that was That was again not spent.
The last three were not spent, were not fired. The
second hey fascist catch with aero symbols. The third cartridge
Oh bella chow bella chow bella chow chow chow. The
fourth cartridge If you read this you are gay LMAO.
The rifle, ammunition, rounds, and towel were sent for forensic processing.
DNA consistent with defendant was found on the trigger, other
parts of the rifle, the fired cartridge casing, two of
the three unfired cartridges, and the towel. Law enforcement was
unable to immediately locate the shooter, so they published photos
of the shooter from the UVU surveillance cameras and asked
for the public's help to identify him. Meanwhile, law enforcement
continued to try to identify the shooter through other means
the Washington County investigation. On the evening of September eleventh,
twenty twenty five, as law enforcement continued their investigation, Tyler
James Robinson went to the Washington County Sheriff's office with
his parents and a family friend to turn himself in.
Robinson's mother stated that the following to police. On September eleventh,
twenty twenty five, the day after the shooting, Robinson's mother
saw the photo of the shooter in the news and
thought the shooter looked like her son. Robinson's mother called
her son and asked him where he was. He said
he was at home sick, and that he had also
been at home homesick on September tenth. Robinson's mother expressed
concern to her husband that the suspect shooter looked like Robinson.
Robinson's father agreed. Robinson's mother explained that over the last
year or so, Robinson had become more political and had
started to lean more to the left, becoming more pro
gay and trance, writes Oriented. She stated that Robinson began
to date his roommate, a biological male who was trans
transitioning genders. This resulted in several discussions with family members,
but especially between Robinson and his father, who have very
different political views. In one conversation before the shooting, Robinson
mentioned that Charlie Kirk would be holding an event at UVU,
which Robinson said was a stupid venue. For the event,
Robinson accused Kirk of spreading hate. Robinson's father reported that
when his wife showed him the surveillance image of the
suspected shooter in the news, he agreed that it looked
like their son. He also believed that the rifle that
police suspected the shooter used matched a rifle that was
given to his son as a gift. As a result,
Robinson's father contacted his son and asked him to send
a photo of the rifle. Robinson did not respond. However,
Robinson's father spoke on the phone with Robinson, Robinson implied
that he planned to take his own life. Robinson's parents
were able to convince him to meet at their home.
As they discussed the situation, Robinson implied that he was
the shooter and stated that he couldn't go to jail
and just wanted to end it. When asked why he
did it, Robinson explained there was too much evil and
the guy, referring to Charlie Kirk, spreads too much hate.
They talked about Robinson turning himself in and convinced Robinson
Robinson to speak with a family friend who's a retired
deputy sheriff at Robinson's father. At Robinson's father's request, the
family friend met with Robinson and his parents and convinced
Robinson to turn himself in. The family friend spoke to
police and reported telling Robinson that it would be better
if he brought all evidence with him to the sheriff's
office to avoid police having to search his parents' home.
The friend also asked Robinson if he had any clothes
that were related to what he did. Robinson replied that
he had disposed of the clothes in different areas. The roommate.
Police interviewed Robinson's roommate, a biological male who was involved
in a romantic relationship with Robinson. The roommate told police
that the roommate received messages from Robinson about the shooting,
and he did provide those messages to police. On September tenth,
twenty twenty five, the roommate received a text message from
Robinson which said, drop what you're doing, look under my keyboard.
The roommate looked under the keyboard and found a note
that stated quote, I had the opportunit unity to take
out Charlie Kirk, and I'm going to take it. Police
found a photograph of this note. The following exchange text
exchange then took place. After reading the note, the roommate responded,
what you're joking, right, Robinson? I am still okay, my love,
but am stuck in Orum for a little while longer yet,
shouldn't be long until I can come home. But I
got to grab my rifle still. To be honest, I
had hoped to keep this secret till I died of
old age. I am sorry to involve you, roommate. You
weren't the one who did it, right Robinson? I am,
I am. I'm sorry, roommate. I thought they caught the person, Robinson. No,
they grabbed some crazy old dude. Then interrogated someone in
similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle from
my drop point shortly after, but most of that side
of town got locked down. It's quiet, almost enough to
get out, but there's one vehicle lingering. Roommate, Why Robinson?
Why did I do it? Roommate, Yeah, Robinson, I had
enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out.
If I am able to grab my rifle unseen, I
will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to retrieve
it again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't seen
anything about them finding it. Roommate, how long have you
been planning this, Robinson? A bit over a week. I
believe I can get close to it, but there is
a squad car parked right by it. I think they
already swept that spot, but I don't want to chance it.
Robinson Again, I'm wishing I had circled back and grabbed
it as soon as I got to my vehicle. I'm
worried what my old man would do if I didn't
bring back Grandpa's rifle. ID e k if it's had
a serial number, but it wouldn't trace to me. I
worry about Prince. I had to leave it in a
bush where I changed outfits. Didn't have the ability or
time to bring it with I might have to abandon
it and hope they don't find Prince. How the F
will I explain losing it to my old man? Only
thing I left was the wrapple. Was the rifle wrapped
in a towel. Remember how I was engraving bullets. The
FN messages are mostly a big meme. If I see
notice bulge UWU on Fox New, I might have a stroke.
All right, I'm going to have to leave it. That
really FN sucks. Judging from today, I say, Grandpa's gun
does just fine. I DK, I think that was a
tooth a two K dollar scope. Wink wink Robinson. Robinson again,
delete this exchange again, Robinson. My dad wants photos of
the rifle, he says, Grandpa wants to know who has what.
The Fed's released a photo of the rifle and it
is very unique. He's calling me rn not answering Robinson.
Since Trump got into office, my dad has been pretty diehard. Maga, Robinson.
I'm going to turn myself in willingly.
Speaker 3: One of my.
Speaker 8: Neighbors here is a deputy for the sheriff again, you
are all I worry about love that came from robinson roommate.
I'm much more worried about you. Robinson, don't talk to
the media. Please, don't take any interviews or make any comments.
If any police ask you questions, ask for a lawyer,
and stay silent. The search for Robinson's residence, police executed
a search warrant on Robinson's residence. During that search, police
discovered a shellcasing with etchings like the etchings found on
the shells in the rifle near Uvu. Police also found
several target boards with bullet holes in Robinson's home. Now,
as I stated in the beginning, when I read those allegations,
these are allegations, and like the evidence set forth in
this statement, those allegations, what you've heard from the media,
even from state and federal officials, has not been tested
in the crucible of a jury trial. I understand the
public's desire to know the facts. My own family members
have pressed me for information. Why are we reluctant to
share the details of the investigation itself and comment on
the case. Because I want to ensure a fair and
impartial trial. I became a prosecutor because of my love
for the ideals of this great country and the principles
embedded in our constitution. The free exchange of ideas and
opinions is critical to this great American experiment. But so
too are the protections afforded to the accused found in
the fifth and sixth Amendments. The right against self incrimination,
the right to a speedy and public trial, the right
to the effective assistance of counsel, the right to confront
one's accusers, and the right to compel, the attendance of witnesses, And,
perhaps most importantly, under our constitution, the accused is presumed
innocent until we, the state, prove to an impartial jury
of defendant's peers his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That
jury cannot rely on our allegations, on what they hear
in the news, or on what they hear from a
public official. The jury is the sole trier of fact,
and they will ultimately determine those facts based on evidence
a trial judge has determined is admissible. Again, as prosecutors,
we bear the burden to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt,
But make no mistake, we welcome this burden. I'm going
to explain just the procedural steps. We're not a grand jury.
We don't have a grand jury system like the federal
courts do. It's it's a preliminary hearing system. So the
arrest and filing of the criminal information are merely the
first steps in the criminal justice process. Today, at three PM,
the defendant will appear before a judge in the Utah
Fourth District Court for his first appearance to be informed
of these charges and to ensure that he has an
attorney to represent him. The hearing will be brief. The
judge will conduct that first appearance virtually via WebEx This
is not unusual in the Fourth District. All felony first
appearances for defendants who are in custody are held virtually.
A link to that hearing is available for media on
the Utah State Court's ex account at Utah State Courts. Now,
following defendant's first appearance, he will be entitled to a
preliminary hearing. At that hearing, the state will be required
to show probable cause that defendant committed the crimes. The
purpose of the preliminary hearing is not to determine guilt,
but simply to assure the court that the prosecution has
enough evidence to proceed to trial. If a judge finds
probable cause and binds the case over for trial and
arraignment hearing will be held. At that hearing, a judge
will again inform defendant of the charges against him and
require him to enter a plea to each charge. The
next sit step. The next step following the arraignment is
an opportunity for the parties to file any relevant motions
and then ultimately the trial itself. This case has generated
a tremendous amount of interest across our nation and even
the world. The public desire for information is desire is understandable,
but it bears reiterating that this case will be tried
in a court of law consistent with our constitution, not
the court of public opinion. Thus, we will only discuss
with the press. Discuss the case with the press occasionally.
It will not be a day to day or even
week to week occurrence, but we will only do so
in a manner as not to jeopardize the fair trial process.
Speaker 1: All right, That was the DA for Utah County. Her
name is Jeff Gray, and a lot of that information
about the back and forth with the roommate was not
ever disclosed that I know of before. Here's some of
the reaction from law enforcement and lawyers. Let's start with
Paul Morrile, former NYPD lieutenant.
Speaker 2: Right, So that's actually heard a lot of that. That
was in that press conference when I was out in Utah.
That's the equivalent of a speaking indictment, where the prosecutor
puts a lot of information into the indictment. In this case,
it's an information. He didn't want to go outside the
four corners of that information, but he laid out a
lot of his case. He got a lot of it
out there, created that narrative, created the picture of what's
going on. The reason I reacted to the witness tampering
and the destruction of evidence thing is because he's being
charged with that. But that was the main perpetrator, the
alleged perpetrator directing his roommate to do it. Now a
question becomes, did the roommate do it. The roommate apparently
did not provide the original note. If you caught it,
is that the cops of a photograph of the original note. Right,
So maybe that person the trend the t roommate destroyed
the original note. My point is this, they might have
some leverage over the roommate, but they don't want to
charge the roommate because the roommate right now is a
really valuable investigatory vector. Leslie and Ley just closed with this.
I know we have other guests. I've been saying since
the beginning that this thing screams to be a state case.
I think that this prosecutor laid out why you've got
the aggravated murder because it ticks the box of putting
others in danger aside from the shooter and the perpetrator.
It really seems to be quite within the contours of
a state palmicide a capital murder case for the Feds.
In my opinion, the best movie on ear is the
subject of a lot of debate. The best move is
for them to participate in the investigation, do everything that
they can. Don't file, because that way you don't have
a speedy trial thing. If the Feds ever want to
bring their case, wait, let the stay case go. You'll
learn a lot from the state case. As long as
you were within the statute of limitations, you can always
bring your federal case later. Gives you another bite at
the apotol. I think that's how this is going.
Speaker 1: All right, So let's go to the lawyers and see
what they have to say. Donna Rotundo is a defense lawyer.
I mean she usually sticks up for anybody that's charged
with the crime. That's her job. This is what she said.
Speaker 3: Sure well.
Speaker 9: First of all, I think the prosecutor did a great
job out there. I think he highlighted everything he needed to.
I think it was a fabulous summary. He gave us
a lot of information. I think the text messages are
very clear in terms of a confession. And I agree
with Paul that keeping this roommate slash lover really as
a ally to law enforcement will be most helpful because
they really will have more leverage in terms of the
charges themselves. I am happy. I'm glad to see that
they are moving forward on charges involving exactly what happened
out there, the number of people who were in danger,
the fact that Charlie was targeted for his views and
his beliefs. I think these charges are a very very
fair assessment about what actually took place out there, and
I think they're going to be very successful. There's good
evidence here so far, and I know that there's more
to come.
Speaker 1: Andy McCarthy takes his crack get the evidence that was
laid out today.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, one of the things I'd be concerned about
with respect to that. As I was listening to the narrative,
and I agree with what's been said about how thorough
and comprehensive it was. It seems like the parents have
very important witnesses. In my experience, juries don't like it
when parents have to testify against defendants, so when prosecutors
asked them to do that, and I can only think
of that being exacerbated in a case where the testimony
could lead to the death penalty. So I was happy
to see that there was so much evidence arising out
of the text message with the roommate, because maybe that
will obviate the need to have the parent's testimony. And
beyond that, I quite agree with Paul that this is
a state case. That's the most straightforward way to do it.
Speaker 1: Nicole Parker is a former FBI agent.
Speaker 5: She says this, I mean, as DNA is all over
the trigger and the case things is well used and unused.
But what I think is really interesting. I've always wondered
how long did he plan for this, and based on
what I heard in that press conference. He had been
planning this for about a week, according to what he
said and also his whole mind process. He was right
there in the vicinity of the crime that he had
just committed, waiting for the cops to leave. He's like, gosh,
I really want to go back and get that rifle,
but I'm not sure that I can. There's an officer
right there. I wonder at what point he said, you
know what, forget it. I've I've got to leave. I
got to go back to Saint George, and I'm just
going to have to leave the evidence behind. And I
think it's very alarming. Again, I like to look at
this rifle and that the weapon selection this was given
to him by his father. From what I understand, it
was his grandfather's and he wanted to his father's like, look,
send me a picture of it. I want a picture
of this weapon. And he said, oh, they won't be
able to trace the weapon back to me. If they
do a trace, it'll go back to my grandfather. There's
something of that sort. But I think this is very
very compelling evidence. That evidence is mounting. And let me
tell you, the investigation is just beginning. This is just
what they have for the probable cause aff of David
for the information. This is not even the whole case.
I am so glad to hear that they are officially
go going for the death penalty.
Speaker 1: I mean, this young man was a four point zero student,
did super well in school, so BookSmart, but man seems
like he really did not understand all the evidence he
was leaving behind him. Here's another defense journey by the
name of Joshua River.
Speaker 10: I thought one of the things that stood out to
me most of all was how suspicious his own parents
were of him. They confronted him at first, saying, hey,
where were you and he said, I'm sick, and that's
not enough to stop the parents. They still feel like
they feel that he could have been involved. And I
think it was one the pictures that we've seen, but two,
these political leanings that they thought he had started to
develop inside of him. I'll tell you another thing that
I thought was remarkable is what the prosecutor did not mention,
and that was any kind of allegations of conspiracy. We
talked a lot about conversations that he had with his
roommates since the time of the shooting, but there was
very little information shared about the plan and who was
involved or who knew about the planning leading up to
the murder. And there's no conspiracy charges here, so it's
interesting if they believe that he acted alone and informed
no one else of his plans.
Speaker 1: That's a great point. What was the plan leading up
to the shooting? They only talked about everything that happened
after the shooting. There's all. There's also, we didn't talk
about it yesterday. But Sunday night they had the Emmys,
and yeah, somehow I did not watch it, but I
read where the celebrities that were going to the Emmy
Awards were all concerned about their personal safety. They're worried
about some a shooter. And I guess I don't want
to deny that of them. Their they're celebrities, they're well known,
Uh the other crowd, but I'm sorry, it's it's no.
You were absolutely safe, but the LAPD apparently had to
marshall a larger number than usual to make everything feel
safe at the Emmys. The other group that is running
around saying they are afraid are lawmakers in Congress. I
guess maybe in your state capitals, but in Congress, they're
all worried and they want more money to have more security.
I heard Mike Johnson speaker talking about it yesterday, saying
they're going to ALEC try to get more money to
allocate toward not only security at the Capitol in Washington,
but also at the homes of the various legislators. And yes,
I know about the lady in Minnesota who she and
her husband were shot and killed. It's so, so so rare.
But I mean, so now everybody's running around thinking that
they're in danger. And Charlie Kirk put himself out there,
and yes, there were people that vehemently disagreed with, but
nobody thought that somebody would actually pull the trigger. Unless
we're getting into this realm of violence, especially political violence,
is okay. I don't know how we got there either.
So I have another question before we leave for the day.
The reporting is is that thirty seven thousand applications have
been submitted for Turning Point USA chapters on college and
high school campuses around the country. Thirty seven thousand. I
would love to have your response. Call me send me
an email. My email address is right on my website
Tomsullivan dot com. The phone number to call is eight hundred.
I'm sorry eight five five two nine five sixty six
hundred eighty five five two nine five sixty six hundred.
The question of the day is will Turning Point USA survive?
Charlie Kirk very influential, very gifted. Not many people are
like him. He was one of a kind. And I
relate this to I'll talk about my old friend Rush.
He was one of a kind. Now, there's a lot
of us that have done talk radio, but nobody was
in the same class as Rush Limbaugh. And after he
passed away, I know they've got the guys doing his
former show and all that. The ratings are nowhere near
what Rush was able to do. So does life go on? Yes,
but Rush was one of a kind. I think Charlie
Kirk was one of a kind. I'm not so sure.
I know Erica Kirk, this widow is saying she's not
going to let it die. I'm curious what you think
because I have my suspicions it was not an organization
that was running Turning Point USA. Yeah, he had an organization,
but it was it was him. It was him and
only him. One of a kind. And now that he's gone,
can't you can't just go get somebody to replace him
not possible. So with that we check out with finding
out what happened on Wall Street today. The Fed, like
I said, is meeting today. Tomorrow they will tell us
what they're doing with interest rates. My bet is they
will lower rates by just a quarter of a percent.
Some people are thinking they're going to lower it by
half a percent. I don't, only because of the fact
that they've been super cautious all the way along. So
the market today down on the Dow on one hundred
and twenty five to close at forty five thousand, seven
fifty seven, the SMP down eight, the Nasdaq down fourteen.
The price of gold went up twelve dollars to thirty
seven point thirty. Oil went up a buck and a
quarter up to sixty almost sixty five dollars now for
one barrel of oil. Thank you for coming by today.
We'll have much more again tomorrow. Hope to see you then,