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Speaker 1: There's a study of the FED recently by the Independent

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Institute at Oakland, California, and the Board of Governors of

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the FED. I think they're I'm of a staff staffers.

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I think it was ninety seven Democrats and three Republicans. Okay,

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So now that Trump is going to be president, that's

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going to turn around. I think they're going to be

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more realistic and inflation. They're going to report higher inflation

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numbers and the higher unemployment members, which really existed during

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the Biden administration, but they lied about that because they're Democrats.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival Network where you

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get valuable information you just can't find anywhere else to

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thrive in today's trying times. You need the Financial Survival

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Network now more than ever. Go to Financial Survivalnetwork dot

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com and get your free newsletter and gift. Financial Survival

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Network now more than ever.

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Speaker 3: And welcome you are listening to and watching the Financial

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Survivor Network. I'm your host, Carrie Letz got an amazing

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guest for you today. It is a site that I

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follow virtually daily, certainly every week, several times mesis dot

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org and there you can find the.

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Speaker 4: Teachings and the expansion of Ludwig.

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Speaker 3: Von Mesis's theories, not just theories, but observations and proof

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that free markets work best and truly, the government that

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governs best is that which governs least. Tom de Lorenzo,

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you are president of MESIS, and you know, I'm amazed,

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like how relevant and how many young people have kind

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of come over to the site and the libertarian mindset,

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and you know, in the current political environment, it seems

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like more and more people are gravitating towards it.

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Speaker 4: They get it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we have more than three million readers a year

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of our web site mesas dot org. And the free

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books we have that can be downloaded, like Human Action

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by von Mesas and Man Economy and State by Murray

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Rothbard are downloaded thirty or forty thousand times a month,

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every month, all year long, year in and year out.

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And we have some videos that have nearly two million

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views of video of this speech is giving in some

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of some of our conferences. And you might remember Carrie

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Ron Paul, who's been on our board forty years, was

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running for the Republican nomination. He went to Michigan State

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University to give a talk and he thought it was

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going to be all very antagonistic, and the students started

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spontaneously chanting and the fed because they'd heard Braun say that,

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and they had read up on it, probably on our website,

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because he talks about our website all the time, and

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he's a good friend of ours. He was just here

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several months ago given a talk. And so, yeah, a

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lot of young people, and we have a big network

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of professors all over the world who turn their students

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onto our writings and our programs and uh, and so we're, uh,

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we're sort of missionaries in that regard and uh, and

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we love it when we discover smart young people who

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are interested in our ideas.

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Speaker 3: So to sum up Austrian school of economics, uh, for

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those of you out there who aren't familiar with it,

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just give us a brief encapsulation of the most important

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points of it.

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Speaker 1: Well, it uses the economic theory and to to understand

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human behavior in general. We call it human action in general.

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And we study markets, and we we we teach and

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we do research on how markets actually work and how

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they work much better than government. And we have a

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lot of literature on why government seems to fail and

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everything it does. I used to have a bumper a

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sticker on my office door that I clipped out of

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a newspaper by Ringos Are of all people and said

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everything government touches turns to crap. And that's that's sort

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of one of the themes of the Austrian School. But

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it's based on one hundred and fifty years of research

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by some pretty serious scholars. But you know, in Layman's term,

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that's pretty much it.

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Speaker 3: Well, I would I would just add to Ringo star

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as you know, wisdom and say, if it doesn't turn

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to crap, but then it goes up in flames.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that would be especially appropriate today, wouldn't it

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for Californians?

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Speaker 4: So perfect example.

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Speaker 3: Just wasn't really on our list of things to talk about,

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but it really is dominating the news cycle now, perfect

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example of governmental failure every single level.

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Speaker 4: The fire is going on in California now right, Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I published an article on Lou Rockwell dot com was

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I'm a columnist for Lou Lou was the founder of

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the Mesas Institute, and entitled California Bad Dreaming. And one

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of the points I made is that quoted former New

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York mayor Ed Koch, who once said it's hard to

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hold a ribbon cutting ceremony for a new sewer line.

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And the point he was making is that people were complaining,

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why is the infrastructure crumbling in New York City? Well,

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there's not much political hay to be made by opening

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up a new sewer line or a new water line,

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or making sure the water hydrants work for fires, because

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there are so many other opportunities to spend tax dollars

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that will win more votes and more campaign contributions in

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other ways and doing the fundamental things that governments are

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supposed to do. But keeping the infrastructure for firefighting intact

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is not politically profitable compared to other things. So that's

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why this happened. I don't think it's unique at all

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to Los Angeles. I think every city has the same problem,

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and they deal with it, and some deal with it

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better than others. But the wacky politicians in call Off,

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California are among the worst and the stupidest, and so

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look what happened. I used to live in Maryland that

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I always told people the Maryland left is probably the

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dumbest of all leftists politician anywhere in America. That's saying

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I'm gonna lose yet, but I'm gonna have to change

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change that to California after.

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Speaker 4: This, Hey, and look like good.

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Speaker 3: We could argue anarcho capitalism and you know, limited government,

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but the states that don't have income taxes by definition

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are more limited in their scope than the states that do.

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And the states that don't have income taxes, like Florida, Texas,

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you know, the nine states that are out there.

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Speaker 4: Have all grown much faster.

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Speaker 3: And yet, like when there's a hurricane in Florida, whether

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you think the government should be addressing it or not,

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that's what happens.

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Speaker 4: DeSantis and his.

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Speaker 3: Predecessor Rick Scott and his predecessor Jeff Bush.

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Speaker 4: That was when they were at their best in a disaster.

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They were at their best.

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Speaker 3: They weren't like rebuilding the bridges themselves, but they were

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there making sure that the people who they appointed to

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get this stuff done, we're getting it done. Newsome, he's

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like out there, like in the wild. You know, you

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get no confidence from the guy. He looks completely lost.

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I mean he makes a deer in headlights. Look look confident.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, with the income with a state income tax,

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the politicians can play Santa Claus they have so much

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money that they're Santa Claus. They can become popular. And

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that's why news was popular. He has so much money.

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You know, they even like the mayor of Los Angeles

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was spending They had a transgender cafe. There's things like that.

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You know, any special interest group with any who wants

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anything at all if you have income tax revenue problem.

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But if you're restricted like Florida, if you want to

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succeed as a governor or or in general as a politician,

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you darn well beetter. Make sure you're prepared for hurricanes

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and Florida because that's the one thing that's going to

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get you kicked out of office. But in California, they

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have so much money they just enjoy playing Santa Claus.

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And like Mel Gibson said when he was interviewed after

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he lost his home, Lori Ingram asked him if he

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had anything he let to say to Governor Newsom, and

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he said, yeah, use less hair.

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Speaker 4: Gel had for him.

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Speaker 3: Talk about the blow dried politician. So this brings us

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to now many of you out there, You and I

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Tom believe that the economy is in far worse condition

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than we've been. A gas lit to believe, I mean

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literally the past four years and politicians in general, it's

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all about gas It's all about making you believe a

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reality that doesn't exist, that is more favorable to them

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to believe in. And I would go back to Trump's

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first term. You know, the Democrats don't have a monopoly

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on gas lighting. But the reality is inflation's way worse,

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employment is way worse. All the metrics they use are distorted.

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I mean, Murray Rothbordos used to say they shouldn't bother government,

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shouldn't bother with statistics because they just use it as

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an excuse to meddle in the economy.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. I've actually in my younger days,

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when I was early in my career and I was

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at George Mason University outside of DC, I was asked

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to testify congressional hearings once in a while by the

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Heritage Foundation back in the day. And yeah, they all

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want a statistic of some kind. I was impressed, and

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they all wanted us to get them some kind of

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number that they would they would think it would make

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them be authoritative and whatever they wanted to do. And

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that's that's the racket of the statistics, and they keep

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you know, when the statistics turn bad from their perspective,

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they change the definition, Like they change the definition of inflation.

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You know, they don't count gas proxies and food. You know,

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you know who cares about that?

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Speaker 4: Who you have?

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Speaker 1: How much money do you spend on food? Anyway, it's irrelevant.

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And so shadowstats dot com computes the inflation of the

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way they did in the nineteen eighties, and inflation is

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probably three or four or five times more than what

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the government today says it is. And then all of

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these jobs that they brag about, you know, a big chucklimber.

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Governments make work jobs, so they're not real private sector

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productive jobs. So they lie about unemployment also. But I

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think that's going to turn around because these these agencies,

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like the Department of Labor and the Department of Commerce,

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they're all they're all like ninety ninety five percent ninety

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nine percent Democrats who work there. There's a study of

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the FED recently by the Independent Institute at Oakland, California,

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and like the Board of Governors of the FED, I

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think there I'm of a staff staffers. I think it

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was ninety seven Democrats and three Republicans. Okay, so now

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that Trump is going to be president, that's going to

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turn around. I think they're going to be more realistic

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and then fleation. They're going to report higher inflation numbers

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and the higher unemployment members which really existed during the

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Biden administration, but they lied about that because they're Democrats

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and then Biden was their guy. And that's what I

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think is going to happen.

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Speaker 4: So now it looks like, you know, the most amazing thing.

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Speaker 3: Trump gets elected, first first president to serve non consecutive

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terms since Grover Cleveland, and since they don't study history anymore,

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nobody really sees the parallels to Cleveland's second term.

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Speaker 4: But there's an opportunity here with Doge.

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Speaker 3: Between Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswami and all these things

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to rethink and redefine government. Now, the last time we

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really had this situation was when Reagan was elected, and

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all he wound up doing was maybe slowing down the

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growth of government a little bit. He was never really

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successful in cutting spending and really limiting government to the

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areas where it should be, where it's necessary. And by

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the way, could you just tell us, Tom, what are

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the major functions that a government should be performing, according

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to Mesus Well.

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Speaker 1: Mesa's was not an anarchist. He believed in limited constitutional government.

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He was a fan of the US Constitution, and the

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protection of life, liberty, and property is what government. If

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you're going to have government, that's what should be done.

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There's a famous old book called The Law by Friedrich Bastiato,

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I'm sure you're you're familiar with, and he has one

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statement in there, the law perverted. And how is it perverted? Well,

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if it gets away from protecting life, liberty, and property

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and it starts taxing one one group in order to

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buy votes from another group, well that's the perversion of

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the law. And so as a start, if you want

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to know what the legitimate functions of the government are

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in our system, it's Article one, Section eight of the Constitution.

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The lists what are known as the delegated powers, and

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they're mostly having to do with foreign policy and war

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and things like that, coining money, not printing money, but

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coining money, deciding who's to be a citizen, things like that,

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punishing pirates on the high seats actually in their counterfeiting.

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Speaker 4: And that's about it.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the judicial system in that and then

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that and also it did not provide for a standing army.

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The army was to be funded for two years at

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a time under the original constitution. And so of course

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that that was the whittled away at the beginning in

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George Washington's day as far as that goes, and it's

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been need a largely destroyed since then. But that's what

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what Mesius would would say is a function of government.

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Speaker 3: And then it's just because that gets back to Ringo

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Star again, it's that everything that the government touches turns to crap.

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Now people will point at the railroads, you know, and

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the highway system and all that is the need for government.

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Speaker 4: There is a need. I mean, the interstate highway system.

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Speaker 3: How did it had been built without the government involvement?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, they made They've all been making that

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argument for two hundred years. And Alexander Hamilton made the

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argument that we needed government spending for what they called

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internal improve movements, and his day was roads and canals.

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And then now when Thomas Jefferson became president, uh his

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Treasury secretary made the same argument. We it was basically

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a free rider argument that you know, you need to

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force people through taxes to pay for this. But then

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at the same time, beginning and before the nineteenth century began,

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there were private there were one thousands of miles of

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private road building. They were called turnpikes, and then they're

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they're financed by investors, and people had an incentive in

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the towns in America to connect their town to the

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next town because they would It would enrich everybody. If

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you're a merchant, it would increase the size of your

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market if you made it easy to do there. And

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so while these people were complaining that there's a free

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rider problem. You people will not voluntarily pay to build roads.

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People were were volunteer people in the towns were investing there,

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buying stock in these turnpike companies. So historic speaking, that's

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the way it actually happened, that we've we've forgotten our history.

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Like you said, no one studies history anymore. And the

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interstate system is not an unequivocal blessing anyway. There are

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a lot of people who think they'd rather have their

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privacy and that not rather have you know, crowds from

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all over the planet driving through their cities and urban

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sprawl and all that that people complain about so there

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are people who complain about about that eminent domain. They've

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stolen property from so many people to build all these roads,

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and so there is a case for private, private road building.

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And you do see some people now privatizing some roads

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and turning them into toll roads in Los Angeles and

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places like that. But so, yeah, you could have certain

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things like that. You can make an argument that that's

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a function of government, but that's it. You can't make

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an argument that transvestite cafe is is a constitutional functional

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government that tatty Bear should be forced to pay for.

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Speaker 4: Wasn't there an amendment about that recently?

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Speaker 1: I fought probably in the California Constitution that probably was.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I wouldn't doubt it.

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Speaker 3: So doge imagine, you know, we have like eight hundred

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agencies and they bring it down to one hundred agencies.

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We still got all the debt. There's not much they

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can do about that other than Martin Armstrong had the

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best solution that I've heard, which is due a debt

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to equity swap, where you just say, here's here's a coupon.

294
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You could buy stocks with it, and that's all. You

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could do nothing else. Yeah, and because otherwise the choice

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is to default, and you know, all sorts of bad

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things happen then, even though inflation is a form of

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defaulting on your obligations.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I'm optimistic about Elon Musk and Vivek and

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the doge things because, like Robert Kennedy Junior also said,

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if he gets in, he wouldn't have the authority to

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abolish the FDA, but there are a lot of subdivisions

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at the FDA that he thinks have been harmful to

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Americans for decades, and he could abolish them without the

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whole agency. And every American business spends a significant part

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of their day complying with regulations instead of producing things.

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And if there could be just a ten percent cut,

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or look at the other way, ten percent increase in

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the time American business has spent actually being productive. That's

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a huge increase in productivity just ten percent and twenty

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percent would be a boom. And you're increasing what could

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do you know what else in the world. The invention

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of the personal computer might be a comparison to what

314
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you know what would boost productivity. And you know, on

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the same level of a twenty percent cutting in wasted

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time col telling to faceless bureaucrats one thousand miles away.

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And so that's I'm optimistic about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and combine that with AI, which is really having

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a profound impact. I mean, just little things that I do,

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like show notes for like this interview will be AI

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generated in part.

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Speaker 4: You still got to have.

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Speaker 3: Some involvement and and just running a lot of the

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government on AI. You wouldn't know the difference, right, I figure,

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how much worse can AI be than in the bureaucracy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, then the government. There's so many bureaucrats in the government.

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It says though government it still runs like a nineteenth

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century woolen coat factory where it had a lot of people,

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you know, sewing the buttons on everything that we wouldn't

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close without technology, before technology came along and eliminated the

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need for all these people to do all these things.

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And on technology to the government is so bad on technolo.

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We talked earlier about the incentive to not spend that

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much money, enough money on infrastructure like fire fire prevention. Well,

335
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here's a fact for you. It was only twenty nineteen

336
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that the government, the US government quit using eight inch

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floppy discs in the nineteen seventies for its nuclear arsenal,

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nuclear power.

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Speaker 4: That's rud bombs. I did read that, how I go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's not just an isolated example. It's the

341
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same phenomenon that was more politically profitable for the politicians

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to spend money on other things than things that actually

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help us.

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Speaker 3: You know, like my kids don't even know what a

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floppy disc is. Sure, yeah, never, it's the choice. I

346
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having a spack of the things, and you'd load your

347
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programs in and you know, I go back to the

348
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early days the PC and yeah, pretty amazing. So we're

349
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at a unique time and the fact is the change

350
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has to come. Either the change is going to happen

351
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on its own and could be totally unmanageable, or we

352
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we basically open things up and we embrace the change.

353
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I hate to use cliches like that. The only constant

354
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in life is change, right, But we have to do

355
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something here because we're failing.

356
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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well freed with Hayak One said in one of

358
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his books, Excuse Me, Law, Legislation, and Liberty that the

359
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thing about economic growth is that when your time comes

360
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to change, say that, you know, those may a product

361
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that your work for a company, The product has become outdated.

362
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If you want of a prosperous society, you have to

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accept that and adapt. If you don't want to accept

364
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that and adapt, then you're going to give up prosperity.

365
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And Americans need to be taught that so that they

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realize that there's a benefit to adapting. That you have

367
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a more prosperous life and a better life, and your

368
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children and grandchildren will have a better life if you

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if you adapt to these changes. And because it's going

370
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to be for the better, and and so I'm a

371
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bit optimistic the fact that the the left is becoming

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more and more hysterical and they seem so defeated, and

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the wokism is sort of fading. It'll it'll go back

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to the universities where it came from for now. But

375
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it's like a cancer. It'll be it'll be. It'll be

376
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at the university. It's going to still be growing there

377
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and we'll see what will happen in the next twenty years.

378
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Maybe I won't to see what happened in the next

379
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twenty years. If somebody will, that's the way it's going

380
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to go.

381
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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's on the way. And then they call it

382
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the woke mind. Virus. And you know it's interesting Tom.

383
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Speaker 3: Anyone whose job or business or livelihood is threatened, you know,

384
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quickly becomes a luddite, right yeah, oh sure, yeah. I

385
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,799
guess my business, my industry, my job is valuable. People

386
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need it. They just don't know how much we need it.

387
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But that force of creative destruction is key to moving forward.

388
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You know, we look at where self driving vehicles will

389
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just kind of cut it off at this, but you know,

390
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ten million people, it's the largest job category in the

391
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,440
United States driver and I'm telling you from my latest

392
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,640
experiences driving test LISK, it's not going to be long

393
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before those people are surplus. Oh yeah, they're not going

394
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to be needed. It's certainly a large number of them.

395
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There might be instances where you want the car not

396
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driving itself, but we're almost there, and we'll see how

397
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quickly society adapts to this, because this is major. And

398
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that's just one small example or one large example of

399
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the chain that's that's coming towards us. Factory work robotics

400
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,119
another one that's going to be and it's going to

401
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:13,680
happen so fast. It's happening now so quickly that most

402
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,799
of you out there don't even know it's happening.

403
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we adapted pretty well when we went from

404
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,200
horses to automobiles, and hopefully we'll do the same thing.

405
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,119
And they've been using robotics for decades now, you know,

406
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,319
the car car companies. You know, back in the old days,

407
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people had to stick their arms in the into a

408
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moving assembly line with sharp pieces of the metal going

409
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past and uh, and then these robotic arms to do

410
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all that now, so that's really nothing new. I've been

411
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doing that for a long time, and it's it's historically

412
00:24:43,319 --> 00:24:47,559
what always happens with technology like that is that new

413
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types of jobs are created. When when they got rid

414
00:24:51,319 --> 00:24:53,920
of operators. I'm old enough to remember a lot of

415
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listens telephone service. You had to call and you talk

416
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to somebody, and AT and T hired millions of call

417
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,599
them operators and they would connect you to your long

418
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,240
distance call. And the AT and T unions thought this

419
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would be a disaster. Direct dialing telephone wuld be a disaster,

420
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but they'd expanded the telephone business so much that they

421
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ended up having more union members and not fewer union

422
00:25:16,559 --> 00:25:20,440
members after direct dialing for long distance. And that's always

423
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:25,079
been the history of technological advance, but people need to

424
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understand that and they need to adapt. And the sooner

425
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:29,839
you adapt, the better, of course.

426
00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:35,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, can you actually dial zero and get an operator? Now,

427
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,480
I don't think you can do it. I don't think so.

428
00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:40,559
I don't think you can. And that was everybody did

429
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:46,200
that and then collect calls and information, so information's gone.

430
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Speaker 4: I don't know.

431
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,799
Speaker 3: Can you call for one one? And actually I think

432
00:25:50,839 --> 00:25:56,440
it's all I think it's all robotic anyway up to

433
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,279
someone from Pakistan if you do that. I have an

434
00:26:00,279 --> 00:26:04,240
older relative. She's she's passed away now, but she was

435
00:26:04,279 --> 00:26:07,039
an operator and I've I've been to her workplace when

436
00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:09,960
I was young, and they had all these women. There's

437
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,559
like hundreds of them all, you know, like a telemarketing place.

438
00:26:14,599 --> 00:26:16,519
Speaker 4: But it was at and t Oh.

439
00:26:16,599 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a huge well we call them now call

440
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:23,960
centers and and things like the typing pool. Remember like

441
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,880
companies would have like one hundred ellis and settlers on. Yeah,

442
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,759
and Wall Street's back office like they used to manually

443
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:38,799
figure out, manually handle share transfers, accrued interest to crewed

444
00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:43,680
dividends actually on adding machines. Up until the early sixties

445
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,480
when the calculator came out. That was a big innovation.

446
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,279
And now basically there is no back office of Wall Street.

447
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,839
It's all the big boxes computers.

448
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, yeah, we have We could probably cite a

449
00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:02,400
thousand exams like that. But people need to know these

450
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,240
things that we you know, we've been pretty good at

451
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,440
adapting these over the years. We still have an economy,

452
00:27:08,759 --> 00:27:12,920
we still have the problem prospects for prosperity. But you

453
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,880
need to learn that lesson. And there are a lot

454
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,440
of people who just think, oh, I'll never get another

455
00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:19,319
job for the rest of my life. I grew up

456
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,359
in western Pennsylvania during the steel era in the sixties

457
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,839
and seventies and when the steel mills all disappeared. But

458
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,680
Pittsburgh today is a very very different place than The

459
00:27:29,799 --> 00:27:34,839
types of businesses are totally different, and they succeeded. It

460
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,559
took me, It was painful at the beginning, but it

461
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:40,279
didn't take Pittsburgh very long to shift to the new economy.

462
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 4: Hey, well, we go back to the Luddites.

463
00:27:44,079 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 3: Really, they were the first, the first recorded instance of

464
00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:52,960
anti tech, anti progress, if you will, and they were

465
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:58,680
smashing the looms because it automated a drudgery of making,

466
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,240
you know, conn wool and uh, it was a big

467
00:28:03,559 --> 00:28:09,480
movement in the nineteenth century and you know now that's

468
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:10,319
all automated.

469
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, the dock workers today are complaining about automation

470
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,640
because there's a lot of automation coming along with the

471
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,119
taking stuff off of the ships. Dock workers and Trump

472
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,720
seems to be sympathetic to them, but that's their luodites basically, Yeah,

473
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:30,079
they don't They don't want to see the automation of

474
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:31,799
some of the some of their work either.

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Speaker 3: Ye, it's pretty the container totally revolutionized that industry, but

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there's still is the long Charman. Well, Tom, really appreciate

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you coming back on. You know, like I said, I

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can't say enough good things about.

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Speaker 4: Mesas dot Org.

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Speaker 3: I have referred countless people to the site to try

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to get them to open up, to get you to

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open up, to understand the way the economy really works,

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which is, like you said, it comes down to human action.

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People acting in their own self interest, whatever that might be,

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hopefully within the conflin confines of the law, to further

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their economic and their family's economic position. It's really that

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simple when you get down to it is. But when

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it's billions of people doing it all at the same time.

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It gets very complicated very quickly. And you know, the

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greatest force for change is unleashing the human mind and

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allowing people allowing you to pursue your best interests. So

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mesas dot org link is in the show notes this

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00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:44,240
interview on Financial Survival Network dot com.

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Speaker 4: Appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: Welcome here anytime and we will talk to you again soon.

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Speaker 1: Okay, kerriy I have a great day.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to carry lets this Financial survival Network

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00:29:54,599 --> 00:29:58,559
your solution to today's trying times. For the latest go

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00:29:58,599 --> 00:30:04,240
to Financial Survival Network dot com. Financial Survival Network now

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00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:05,079
more than ever,