Speaker 1: Hello, Federalist Radio Hour friends. It's your amiable host and
Speaker 1: experience Shirpa Matt Kittle. You know I have the good
Speaker 1: fortune of talking to some of the most interesting people
Speaker 1: thought leaders in politics and culture. Today there's shining light
Speaker 1: on some very dark places in our government and fighting
Speaker 1: for the foundational values of this republic, this last best
Speaker 1: hope for liberty, and that's what we do every day
Speaker 1: at the Federalist. We can't do that without you. The
Speaker 1: Federalist Foundation is a nonprofit and we depend entirely on
Speaker 1: our listeners and readers, not corporations. If you value fearless
Speaker 1: independent journalism, please consider a tax deductible gift today at
Speaker 1: the Federalist dot com backslash donate. That's the Federalist dot
Speaker 1: com backslash donate. Your support keeps us going. Merry Christmas
Speaker 1: in a blessed new Year from your friends at the
Speaker 1: Federalist and we are back with another edition of the
Speaker 1: Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at
Speaker 1: the Federalist and your experienced Shrpa on today's quest for knowledge.
Speaker 1: As always, you can email the show at radio at
Speaker 1: the Federalist dot com follow us on exit FDR LST.
Speaker 1: Make sure to subscribe reever you download your podcast, and
Speaker 1: of course to the premium version of our website as well.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is Kenneth Calvert, Professor of History and
Speaker 1: director of the Oxford Program at Hillsdale College. In this
Speaker 1: blessed season, let us pause to reflect on the miraculous
Speaker 1: birth and times of course and the first Christians, and
Speaker 1: Professor Calvert is here to help us do just that.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us on this edition
Speaker 1: of the Federalist Radio Hour.
Speaker 2: You're welcome, Matt, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Let's begin really at the beginning, shall we, Actually it
Speaker 1: goes back a ways, but you'll understand where I'm coming
Speaker 1: from when I read the book of Luke two eight
Speaker 1: through twenty, and it is this. There were in the
Speaker 1: same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over
Speaker 1: their flock by night, and lo, the Angel of the
Speaker 1: Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord
Speaker 1: shown round about them, and they were sore afraid. Thus
Speaker 1: begins Luke chapter two eight through twenty. It was a
Speaker 1: at least the start of this sequence is a bit
Speaker 1: unnerving for the shepherd's watching over their flocks, was it not.
Speaker 3: That's right, it was, And the shepherds are being addressed
Speaker 3: by angels, and of course in that moment, the idea
Speaker 3: that they're frightened is entirely understandable. But they're being invited
Speaker 3: to the most important event in human history, the birth
Speaker 3: of God Incarnate in Bethlehem and the night of the
Speaker 3: Night of his birth. Of course it was just angels
Speaker 3: and shepherds. The magi I wouldn't show up for another
Speaker 3: two years, and so we have to remember that. And
Speaker 3: what's wonderful about Luke is just the simplicity, straightforward nature
Speaker 3: of the na of the message. And if I may,
Speaker 3: I'd like to actually start with the time of Zechariah,
Speaker 3: the husband of Elizabeth.
Speaker 2: Certainly, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: So we go back to Zechariah and we look at
Speaker 3: the announcement that he receives. He's a priest serving in
Speaker 3: the temple. We're not quite sure what event it is,
Speaker 3: but it could very well be if this is if
Speaker 3: this is somewhere around six or seven BC, we're looking
Speaker 3: at either the day of the Atonement or the Feast
Speaker 3: of the Tabernacles, and he is he is serving in
Speaker 3: the temple, and he is told by the Angel that
Speaker 3: he was going to have a child, that he and
Speaker 3: Elizabeth would have a child, and of course he didn't
Speaker 3: believe it, and he was struck dumb as compared to Mary,
Speaker 3: who was visited by Gabriel, and she accepts it and
Speaker 3: she says, yes, I am the handmaid of the Lord right,
Speaker 3: And so you have this contrast between these the two
Speaker 3: receptions of this message. But we are told then Mary
Speaker 3: is told to go visit her relative Elizabeth, and we're
Speaker 3: not quite sure how they're related, but they are related,
Speaker 3: and she's to go visit her, and she's already six
Speaker 3: months pregnant. So if we look at Zachariah at the
Speaker 3: temple in somewhere around six b C, which is about
Speaker 3: the time when Jesus was born, and we look at
Speaker 3: when he was there sometime in September, this means that
Speaker 3: the incarnation of God, the visitation of Gabriel to Mary,
Speaker 3: took place sometime in March. And then of course what's
Speaker 3: nine months from March, well, December, and so when we
Speaker 3: talk about the celebration of this most important event in
Speaker 3: human history, the arrival of God incarnate, and we're talking
Speaker 3: about December twenty fifth, as about the approximate correct date
Speaker 3: of his birth, and we look at scripture and we
Speaker 3: look at the foundations of it, we're not far off.
Speaker 3: And I think that it's very important for us to understand.
Speaker 3: Quite often we hear that it was Constantine who somehow
Speaker 3: established December twenty fifth as the date of Christmas, which
Speaker 3: there is absolutely no historical evidence for that at all,
Speaker 3: and that always befuddles me a little bit as an
Speaker 3: ancient historian, and especially one who studies the early Church,
Speaker 3: because by the second and third centuries AD, you have
Speaker 3: a number of these early Christian scholars, early Christian leaders,
Speaker 3: identifying specifically March twenty fifth as the date of the incarnation.
Speaker 3: And that's what they're most interested in, of course, is
Speaker 3: the very moment when God becomes man. And this is
Speaker 3: why in early Christianity and all down through Christian history
Speaker 3: we've believed and assert and of course science shows that
Speaker 3: human life begins at conception, and there when we talk
Speaker 3: about God incarnate conception, that's what the early Christians held
Speaker 3: on to. You look at people like Hippolitists or Tertullian,
Speaker 3: Clement of Alexandria. A number of these early Christian scholars
Speaker 3: are looking at March twenty fifth as the date of
Speaker 3: the conception of God Incarnate, and then of course December
Speaker 3: twenty fifth, nine months later, as the date of his
Speaker 3: amazing birth and the announcement to those shepherds who Matthew
Speaker 3: and Luke give this wonderful contrast, matt between the God
Speaker 3: of the universe, the true King of the Universe, being
Speaker 3: born in Bethlehem, right, and this baby, this baby who
Speaker 3: is not only the second member of the Trinity, but
Speaker 3: you know, now here in flesh, as compared to the
Speaker 3: guy further down the Mediterranean Sea in Rome, Caesar Augustus,
Speaker 3: who is proclaimed by his people to be a god,
Speaker 3: to be a son of a god, of Julius Caesar.
Speaker 3: And the amazing contrast there of the human view of power,
Speaker 3: the human view of authority, as compared to the true
Speaker 3: authority in that baby in Bethlehem.
Speaker 2: It's just so.
Speaker 3: Powerful, and any Christian reading that in the first century,
Speaker 3: first century AD would understand that contrast. And indeed one
Speaker 3: of the reasons why Herod sent his troops to kill
Speaker 3: babies at Bethlehem was to try and get rid of
Speaker 3: this king of the Jews who had arrived because the
Speaker 3: Senate had made him quote unquote the king of the Jews.
Speaker 3: And so there again a contrast in the real power
Speaker 3: versus the human claims to authority. It is a very
Speaker 3: very powerful message, and sometimes here, you know, twenty one,
Speaker 3: one hundred years later, almost forget just how powerful that
Speaker 3: message was in the first century.
Speaker 2: Oh, it is so powerful.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned, you know, the two very interesting narratives
Speaker 1: that are the same, but they're told with you know,
Speaker 1: you can tell that these are different people telling this
Speaker 1: story in Luke and in Matthew, but it comes down
Speaker 1: to the same message that it is a humbling experience.
Speaker 1: It is, you know, filled with humanness, but filled with
Speaker 1: divinity at the same time. And I think I always
Speaker 1: think about that silent night, and every time I hear that,
Speaker 1: I I feel those words that you know, the Gospel
Speaker 1: describing this scene, because indeed, a I'm sure that around
Speaker 1: everyone you know, was you know, perhaps some noise and
Speaker 1: maybe some cacophony in the background, right, but you know,
Speaker 1: in this in this setting, in this manger, this was
Speaker 1: as they say in German, you know, well the translation
Speaker 1: is still still still right. It's a calm in this moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and this is the God of the universe. Well,
Speaker 3: let's put it this way. All of the Old Testament
Speaker 3: points ahead to this, and then all of the rest
Speaker 3: of history is defined by this moment, by this still moment,
Speaker 3: in this in this, in this manger where one, you know,
Speaker 3: just from from human eyes, one would never expect the
Speaker 3: God of the universe to arrive, right it is. It
Speaker 3: is so contrary to everything that we think is powerful
Speaker 3: and important.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and we think about well here, as you mentioned before,
Speaker 1: these assumptions of divinity in these very flawed, very flawed
Speaker 1: human beings. Well it wasn't you know, it was at
Speaker 1: this moment where you have the crossroads of this history
Speaker 1: going on. You talked about Elizabeth and who was Elizabeth's son?
Speaker 2: They you know, And it's.
Speaker 1: Always interesting to me because the you know, the Old
Speaker 1: Testament is filled with God fulfilling his promises, especially around
Speaker 1: older people, right right, run out of time, the biological clock.
Speaker 1: And it's always interesting to me that you have two
Speaker 1: people in this particular instance saying there's no way that
Speaker 1: could have we're too old to have children. Right exactly,
Speaker 1: here comes John the Baptist right right.
Speaker 3: And you know, Sarah Abraham look at Samuel's mother Samson's mother.
Speaker 3: You know, there are these miraculous births all down through
Speaker 3: the Old Testament, and then of course in Isaiah the
Speaker 3: promise that the virgin will be birth, be giving birth
Speaker 3: to God with us right in Manuel Manuel.
Speaker 2: And here is the fulfillment of all of that.
Speaker 3: And God takes on flesh, and by doing that, you know,
Speaker 3: he sets up the whole salvation history, the whole drama
Speaker 3: pointing ahead to his taking on flesh. Therefore able to
Speaker 3: die and dies you atoning for our sin. And then
Speaker 3: is able also in the flesh to rise from the
Speaker 3: dead and have victory over death.
Speaker 1: And if I can go back for a moment, because
Speaker 1: you talked about the chronology of this, and I think
Speaker 1: that is a critical point, I want to focus on
Speaker 1: this a bit because we have heard from some modern
Speaker 1: day historians. Oh no, no, Christ was not born on
Speaker 1: December twenty fifth. You know, this was just the emerging
Speaker 1: of some you know, pagan winter solstice festivals with as
Speaker 1: you mentioned before, the Roman calendar tying this stuff in.
Speaker 1: Where did they come up with this stuff? Because we
Speaker 1: have in the early Christian historians, as you mentioned from
Speaker 1: the beginning, talked about the moment of that immaculate conception,
Speaker 1: and that Immaculate Conception being in March, which would take
Speaker 1: the Mary's all women's gestation period up to you know
Speaker 1: the end of December.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, there's there's all kinds of things that
Speaker 3: might be pointed to. Probably they're the strongest evidence for
Speaker 3: a Constantinian era establishment of December twenty fifth is a
Speaker 3: calendar that it's actually not in Constantinople, where Constantine is
Speaker 3: ruling from, but in Rome. And what it does show
Speaker 3: is that Christmas was being celebrated alongside the celebration of
Speaker 3: a god, Soul Invictus, and I believe also the Saturnalia.
Speaker 3: Now that doesn't mean that they were all established at
Speaker 3: that moment and that they were all seen as equal,
Speaker 3: and that is important. It's just a calendar that lists
Speaker 3: what's going on at that moment, right.
Speaker 2: So what we have to look at actually is.
Speaker 3: An emperor named Aurelian who ruled from two seventy to
Speaker 3: two seventy five. And Aurelian actually introduced a god that
Speaker 3: had been debated over by the Romans for a while
Speaker 3: named Soul Invictus, which is the invincible Sun. So that
Speaker 3: solar worship and what he does is established December twenty fifth,
Speaker 3: the winter solstice, as the moment or the day in
Speaker 3: which that God is worshiped. And so you know, there
Speaker 3: are a number of things going on here, because there's
Speaker 3: persecution of the Christians going on at the same time
Speaker 3: under Aurelian, Christianity is growing leaps and bounds in this period.
Speaker 3: And so what you might look at her a couple
Speaker 3: of things. Number one, is he trying to cover up
Speaker 3: Christianity by establishing a new solar worship or is he
Speaker 3: trying to maybe co ot Christianity and bring Christianity into
Speaker 3: the Empire, which is a possibility but unlikely. Or is
Speaker 3: he just establishing a new God. You know, those are
Speaker 3: our options. But what is often confusing to those who
Speaker 3: look back at this time is that it is a
Speaker 3: December twenty fifth celebration and therefore seems to be, you know,
Speaker 3: coordinated somehow with the Christian celebration. What I think is
Speaker 3: also important is that the Christians had a certain amount
Speaker 3: of solar imagery attached to Christ. In the Book of Numbers,
Speaker 3: the Messiah is called a star. In I believe it's Malachi,
Speaker 3: he is called the sun. The s u n of righteousness.
Speaker 3: And then in the Gospel of John, you know, the
Speaker 3: light comes into the world, you know, the darkness, you know,
Speaker 3: you know fhades because of the light coming into the world.
Speaker 3: There is this light imagery and even solar imagery that
Speaker 3: the Christians do discuss and talk about, and ultimately it
Speaker 3: will work its way into their art. But that doesn't
Speaker 3: mean it's the same as the pagan idea of soul
Speaker 3: and Victus or the invincible sun.
Speaker 2: You see.
Speaker 3: And one thing I always, you know, scratch my head
Speaker 3: about is, you know, people who are saying that this
Speaker 3: is the same thing, that they're all intertwining and this
Speaker 3: is proof of you know, pagan roots of Christianity. I
Speaker 3: think that's really hard to argue because remember that the
Speaker 3: Christians are being persecuted. Yes, why would the Christians want to,
Speaker 3: you know, intertwine themselves with paganism. In fact, if I
Speaker 3: can just say one more thing about, you know, the
Speaker 3: celebration of Christmas by the early Christian early Christians. In fact,
Speaker 3: there's a wonderful hymn of the Father's Love Forgotten written
Speaker 3: by Prudentius. That's our earliest known Christian hymn in the
Speaker 3: fourth century, and I've heard that song in every Christian church.
Speaker 3: It's just a wonderful hymn. And the Christians set themselves
Speaker 3: aside in terms of their celebration of Christmas as compared
Speaker 3: to the celebration of Soul and Victis or the celebration
Speaker 3: of the Saturnalia. The Christians, Jerome of Jerusalem says this.
Speaker 3: He says, they have debauchery, they have corruption. They drink
Speaker 3: too much wine, you know, they drink too much, they
Speaker 3: eat too much food. It is just absolute corruption. Whereas
Speaker 3: we Christians and the celebration of Christ at this time
Speaker 3: of the year, we're giving to the poor, We're remembering
Speaker 3: Christ and why he came, you know, we're remembering the
Speaker 3: reason for the incarnation. You know, it's such a drastic
Speaker 3: contrast to that pagan celebration. And so the Christians were,
Speaker 3: i would argue, very much aware that what they were
Speaker 3: doing was different, even though it was around the same
Speaker 3: time of year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is really played out in the notion of
Speaker 1: walk in the spirit and not in the flesh. Absolutely
Speaker 1: only one human being, flesh born human being, who was
Speaker 1: ever perfect. The spirit is always perfect, and the spirit
Speaker 1: lived of course in Christ.
Speaker 2: God incarnate.
Speaker 1: But you know that is what Paul and others urged,
Speaker 1: so exactly you walk in that spirit, and that must
Speaker 1: have been well, to say the least, quite a challenge
Speaker 1: in those early days when they weren't walking. A lot
Speaker 1: of times in some places they were running from villages
Speaker 1: where they were being throwing rocks at them and trying
Speaker 1: to take their lives.
Speaker 3: And again in the two fifties AD, just before Aurelian
Speaker 3: there was empire wide persecution of the Christians. They were
Speaker 3: being dragged out into the streets and it was.
Speaker 2: Really a horrible time.
Speaker 3: And so you know, I think that we have to
Speaker 3: recall that the Christians are going to separate themselves, distance
Speaker 3: themselves from their persecutors. Now, one thing I also have
Speaker 3: to add is whereas March twenty fifth, the date of
Speaker 3: the conception of God Incarnate, is the date that they
Speaker 3: look to most reverently.
Speaker 2: The other, of course, is.
Speaker 3: Easter, and they set that date very early and have
Speaker 3: a couple of councils in which they want to establish
Speaker 3: the date of the celebration of Easter. There are some
Speaker 3: differences between the West and the East, but mostly based
Speaker 3: upon the fact that we're using different calendars.
Speaker 2: But it's really the same day, and.
Speaker 3: And it is it is that that moment of his
Speaker 3: atonement and resurrection that the Christians very early on viewed
Speaker 3: as the most important. The celebration of Christmas and of
Speaker 3: the Incarnation really was a secondary celebration. But I think
Speaker 3: it is important for us to understand that as we
Speaker 3: celebrate it, we do celebrate it in communion with our
Speaker 3: early brothers and sisters in Christ, and that this is
Speaker 3: not something to be taken as just made up by
Speaker 3: the Emperor Constantine and some some group of group of people.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure even who would you know who would
Speaker 3: put that together and say therefore it's a pagan celebration.
Speaker 2: That's just that's just not correct.
Speaker 1: Now, sir, are you telling us that this event that
Speaker 1: we celebrate every year as Christians, we it's so dear,
Speaker 1: is not about you know, your your prime membership. It's
Speaker 1: not about heading to the mall and buying up as
Speaker 1: much of the latest stuff as you can for the
Speaker 1: kids or whoever it's it's it's not about that.
Speaker 2: It's believe it or not, it's not.
Speaker 3: Although I have to say that if we if we
Speaker 3: truly associate all of that with God's gifts to us
Speaker 3: and God's grace towards us. If that's if that's really
Speaker 3: the meaning that we understand for all of this in context,
Speaker 3: then I think we're heading in the right direction, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that we.
Speaker 3: I don't want to be I don't want to be
Speaker 3: too curmudgeonally right, but it is it is important for
Speaker 3: us in the end to focus on why this all happened.
Speaker 3: In fact, I was asked the other day what I
Speaker 3: thought that the most important symbol for Christmas might be,
Speaker 3: And of course I think the crash the Nativity scene
Speaker 3: is very important. But I think too that Christians should
Speaker 3: display across in my tradition as a Catholic, of course,
Speaker 3: a crucifix, so that we remember what Paul says, I
Speaker 3: boasted nothing but Christ and him crucified. That this is
Speaker 3: really at the core the true meaning of Christmas, That
Speaker 3: this is what it all points ahead to, and that
Speaker 3: is the real gift right that has been given to
Speaker 3: us and the real gift that we proclaim to the
Speaker 3: world at this time of year.
Speaker 4: Fed chair j Pal seems like he's straight out of
Speaker 4: reservoir dogs stuck in the middle. The watched Out on
Speaker 4: Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day, Chris helps
Speaker 4: unpack the connection between politics and the economy and how
Speaker 4: it affects your wallet. With inflation on one side and
Speaker 4: unemployment on the other. J Pal's acting clueless with a
Speaker 4: dual mandate coming in from both sides. There's not much
Speaker 4: else he can do. Whether it's happening in DC or
Speaker 4: down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially.
Speaker 3: Be informed.
Speaker 4: Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris
Speaker 4: Rkowski on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: And so many gifts. I never want to lose track
Speaker 1: of that. You know. The gift obviously is our Lord
Speaker 1: and our Savior.
Speaker 2: That's appradiable.
Speaker 1: But I think about all of the miracles then took
Speaker 1: place in order for this birth to be, in order
Speaker 1: for this child to survive a very dangerous time, that
Speaker 1: this child would grow up to do such miraculous works,
Speaker 1: if you would, I mean, I'm not asking you to
Speaker 1: count the miracles, but to talk about the miracles surrounding
Speaker 1: this faith.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So, one thing that always jumps out at me, and
Speaker 3: of course I'm a historian and I think about these things.
Speaker 3: The empire has been established by Caesar Augustus at this time,
Speaker 3: and there's a border, a border that stretches between Egypt
Speaker 3: and the territory overseen by Herod. And of course the
Speaker 3: Holy Family going down to Egypt is a fulfillment of scripture.
Speaker 3: They need to go down to Egypt because the Lord
Speaker 3: would call his son out of Egypt. Right, this is
Speaker 3: this is important. But what I find amazing is that
Speaker 3: Egypt is the is the closest place, the nearest part
Speaker 3: of the Empire to which the Holy Family might go
Speaker 3: for safety and be outside the jurisdiction of Herod. And
Speaker 3: so by going from Bethlehem down to Egypt, and we
Speaker 3: don't know what part of Egypt they were in, they
Speaker 3: had just been given gold, frank and sense and murder
Speaker 3: by the by the magi. But the fact that they're
Speaker 3: called down to there is in my mind a beautiful
Speaker 3: confirmation of so many things of prophecy, of gods, of
Speaker 3: God's providence, of God looking you know, the Joseph being
Speaker 3: faithful to his calling as a father, as an earthly father,
Speaker 3: and Herod can't touch them there, and so you know,
Speaker 3: Matthew tells us that after Herod dies, then the Holy
Speaker 3: Family comes back and goes up to Nazareth. Again it
Speaker 3: is it's perfect in the way that all unfolds his
Speaker 3: his his real Uh. Ministry and miracles don't begin till
Speaker 3: the wedding of Cana in which he you know, produces
Speaker 3: the wine for that wedding. And then his public miracles begin,
Speaker 3: and all of them focused on what on, on healing,
Speaker 3: on health, on on not only spiritual healing, but but
Speaker 3: excuse me, not only physical healing, but spiritual healing as
Speaker 3: well of driving out those demons and those those things
Speaker 3: that possess us. It is it's beautiful and Uh, just
Speaker 3: three years of preaching of miraculous healing, he shows his
Speaker 3: control over nature. John in the Gospel of John, were
Speaker 3: told that he was there. He was present at creation.
Speaker 3: Right this again, this is that baby. That baby was
Speaker 3: present at creation and as an adult Jesus president, he
Speaker 3: had been president at creation. He walks on the water,
Speaker 3: he calms the waves, and his disciples are just in
Speaker 3: awe and sometimes in fear of what this person is
Speaker 3: able to do and what he represents.
Speaker 1: Do you ever think to yourself, I have done this.
Speaker 1: I think I what hazard as they most Christians have,
Speaker 1: What if you had lived at this time?
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: What if you had seen what these ancient people had seen,
Speaker 1: heard what they had heard, in many cases, felt what
Speaker 1: they had felt right.
Speaker 3: And you know, I, of course, as we all do,
Speaker 3: would love to say, oh yeah, you know, I'd buy
Speaker 3: into it.
Speaker 2: I'd be right there, right.
Speaker 3: But but you know, one of the problems that you know,
Speaker 3: the Jewish leadership and Jews were having with Jesus was
Speaker 3: his claim to divine authority.
Speaker 2: That he is God right, and so how how would
Speaker 2: you take that and listen to this guy? Of course,
Speaker 2: you would see on the one hand, the amazing miracles
Speaker 2: that he is producing. On the other hand, he's claiming
Speaker 2: that he is God. And therefore, you know, you've just
Speaker 2: got this incredible tension. I would love to have said that,
Speaker 2: you know, I'd fallen in with the other disciples and
Speaker 2: been right there the whole way. But then you know,
Speaker 2: at his at his trial and at his death, they
Speaker 2: all faded away, except for John, except for his mother,
Speaker 2: at hist at his crucifixion, they all faded away and
Speaker 2: and had to come back and and be you know,
Speaker 2: re reattached to him. We find Jesus and Peter on
Speaker 2: the on the shore, and you know, Jesus asked Peter
Speaker 2: three times, do you love me? Right?
Speaker 3: And there is this reconnection, this reaffirmation of that relationship.
Speaker 1: The number is striking, isn't it. Three times? Yeah, that's right,
Speaker 1: that's right.
Speaker 2: Three days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to be lifted up three days, three times that
Speaker 1: Peter denied the Christ.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1: It is truly the greatest story ever told, because it
Speaker 1: is the greatest salvation known to man, certainly to.
Speaker 2: We who believe.
Speaker 1: And I so appreciate you sharing that with us. The
Speaker 1: early times and life of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: Well, Matt, it's it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure to
Speaker 2: talk to you about it. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I hope to talk to you soon. Perhaps we can
Speaker 1: do this on the eastern side of things.
Speaker 2: I would love to. That would be great.
Speaker 1: I would look forward to that. Thanks to my guest
Speaker 1: today Hillsdale is Kenneth Calvert, Professor of History and director
Speaker 1: of the Oxford Program at Hillsdale College. You remember the
Speaker 1: gospel section I was referring to the Book of Luke
Speaker 1: earlier on in our conversation. In fact, it's Luke chapter two,
Speaker 1: verses eight through twenty. For those who grew up during
Speaker 1: a certain time or for those young today who still
Speaker 1: love the Peanuts Christmas made all the way back in
Speaker 1: what nineteen sixty five, Well, there is a portion of
Speaker 1: that wonderful Christmas special that you would never see on
Speaker 1: average television, streaming whatever these days. In fact, if you
Speaker 1: recall or if you haven't seen it, I hope you will,
Speaker 1: because it's a holiday tradition in our house that the
Speaker 1: Peanuts gang, Charlie Brown puts together a Peanuts pageant for Christmas.
Speaker 1: He's getting more and more frustrated that nobody understands the
Speaker 1: true meaning of Christmas. And you call Linus puts it
Speaker 1: all in perspective for Charlie Brown and for us.
Speaker 5: And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in
Speaker 5: the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And lo,
Speaker 5: the Angel of the Lord came upon them. The glory
Speaker 5: of the lordshill round about them, and they were sore afraid,
Speaker 5: and the Angel set into them. If you're not for behold,
Speaker 5: I bring you tidings of great joy which will be
Speaker 5: to all people. For unto you is born this day
Speaker 5: in the City of David, a savior, Christ the Lord.
Speaker 5: And this shall be a sign onto you. You shall
Speaker 5: find the Babe wrapped in swaddling cloves, lying in an anger,
Speaker 5: and suddenly there was with the Angel a multitude of
Speaker 5: the heavenly host praising God. I'm saying glory to God
Speaker 5: in the highest and on earth, peace goodwill toward me
Speaker 5: in That's what Christmas is thought about, Charlie Brown, That's.
Speaker 1: That's what it means. Linus Well cartoon character carrying around
Speaker 1: a blue blanket, Well, he put it all in perspective,
Speaker 1: something that we should keep our minds and our hearts on,
Speaker 1: I hope during this Christmas season.
Speaker 2: And again.
Speaker 1: Something you would never see in children's television in Christmas
Speaker 1: specials these days. By any stretch, you've been listening to
Speaker 1: another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle,
Speaker 1: Senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be back soon
Speaker 1: with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom, anxious for
Speaker 1: the fray