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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos, I am Dana Valley coming

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at you with my certified fantabulous do it yourself Extraordinariy

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keeps on offsplit data on his children's sporting performances. Co

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host mister Grant Hughes, It is time. We're almost in

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September to get to our NBA off season grades. We

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begin with the Eastern Conference this time. A little East

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Coast bias on this podcast, which we don't have too much.

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We will get into the grading criteria of course before

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we get started, just to remind everybody how we go

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about this. And there's gonna be a little bit of

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a new plot twist this year, as proposed by my

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certified fantabulists coast mister Grant Hughes. Who that's where we start, Grant,

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how the heck are you?

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Speaker 2: Hey? Man?

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Speaker 3: It's always nice to greet each other after we've been

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talking for forty five minutes, as if we're just now

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seeing each.

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Speaker 1: Other for per month? Would listeners and watchers pay to

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have those conversations recorded and disseminated to that? I'd like

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to know is it millions or is it tens of millions?

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Speaker 2: How much will they pay to not have to hear that?

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I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna start a Patreon and whereas we're gonna

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you want less of our content, like pay us to

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stop putting out content.

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Speaker 3: I feel like that's just called extortion or something like.

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It's just like if you want this to stop, pay us.

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Uh so you're doing well, then, yeah, doing great, Happy

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to be here. Happy to move on from regrading to

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just grading because that's easier.

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Speaker 2: Right, This is gonna be no problem.

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Speaker 3: Actually, this is gonna be difficult because I don't know

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how how you feel. But usually so we're now, I

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mean getting close to like two months removed from when

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a lot of this stuff happened. A lot of these

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transactions occurred, and I think it's good in that we

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get some distance, but it's also like, oh, right, the.

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Speaker 2: Hawks did X, Y and Z. I forgot about that.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're sort of having to look at these

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with you know, at a little bit of a remove,

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which is gonna kind of I don't know, maybe it'll

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make us just more objective about it because we won't

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be caught up in you know, what the narrative was

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for that week or so in early July, but we'll see.

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Speaker 1: I think Orlando Magic fans will be happy that, like

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I had some time to sit on their offseason, and

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I think I think the time and space is good.

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And then also it makes it easier for regrades because

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I feel like we don't have to correct one. The

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graphics are like the you know, our master doc that

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has more information we're using. That makes it easier for

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us to update, which why we keep we keep doing

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this later and later every year, Like the past like

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three or four years, we've done it later and later.

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So next year we're gonna do it in October, I

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think right just.

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Speaker 3: I think we should just do it in like January.

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That would make our grades really good.

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Speaker 1: So as a reminder of our grading system, C is average.

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It is not a bad grade. I don't want to

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hear that you're mad that your team got to see

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And if you do agree, could you politely in the

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comments or the discord, the link to which is in

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the podcast and YouTube description, come convey your thoughts. I

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can't promise I'll respond because we're fucking busy, but we

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will read it probably and take it in and sometimes

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we will respond. C is not a bad grade. And

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any to emphasize that we are also grading teams relative

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to their each individual situation, so the resources at their disposal.

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It matters that, you know, you can't just sit there

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and say, if I were the Denver Nuggets, I simply

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would have just signed ogn Andobi and traded for Paul

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George myself, Like you don't. We don't get to evaluate

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things in those terms. The salary cap situation of it

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all matters, And as Grant as instilled in me now

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and I really don't think draft picks can factor in

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a ton during the initial go around unless you have

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if you have strong opinions on that player. Again, this

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is subjective, that's the entire point of this exercise. But

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as Grant pointed out when we were doing regrades, like

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the level of decision making involved in each selection matters.

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And so this year, as opposed to last year, the

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Spurs didn't have a choice at number one with Wemby,

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like it was just the it was. You know, they

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don't get as much credit for doing it, but it

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had it gone bust, that would have provided them cover

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because everyone would have taken him. Now in Atlanta's situation,

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talking about Zachary resische is open for debate because that

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was not the consensus number one pick amongst everyone. Did

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I miss anything, Grant.

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Speaker 3: No, I think I think that's a good way to

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look at it, and I would just I've been thinking

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more and more about what do we do with these

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with you know, because part of the offseason and a

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huge part in a lot of seasons and for a

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lot of teams is the draft pick. I think the

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only time I'm gonna get like, really been out of

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shape or celebratory of draft moves in general is if like,

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and maybe this will come up on this exercise, and

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maybe it'll come up on the West when we do

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it later, but like if you had the opportunity to

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move up or move down, or like there was just

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some sort of broader, I don't know, set of decisions

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to make around the draft that might have benefited whatever

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your team's like specific goals were. Maybe that's where you

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can sort of like, well, I disagree with the direction

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they took in the draft, as opposed to like this

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player is better than that guy, and I know that

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because and then crickets because we don't know that yet

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and there's just no information, so like I'm gonna really

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try to reorient some of my draft.

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Speaker 2: I don't know thoughts.

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Speaker 3: I guess around sort of the broader team building side

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of it, just cause like, I don't know how many

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times are we going to go down the road of saying, well,

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this was the wrong pick and then like just based

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on what you know at this point, it's too early

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to make any real.

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Speaker 2: Definitive statements about a singular player.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing too, this is so far field

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from what you were saying, like doing nothing, Like we're

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not grading just the non transactions to where it's like, oh,

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a team didn't break it up, so we give them

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a good grade necessarily, like if a team's in the

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second apron and continue to spend, that's part of the grade.

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But like the Timberwolves in a vacuum don't get a

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ton of credit because they didn't trade Karl Anthony Towns

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this offseason, what it would have been objectively damaging to

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do so, because there wasn't a Karl Anthony trade out

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there that would have made them better. And the other

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thing that you suggested, which I really like, So we'll

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give our grades at the end, We're gonna try and

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come to a consensus podcast grade. Though maybe there'll be

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situations where because Grant and I everyone knows we disagree

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all that time. We're never on the same page with anything.

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Maybe there will be teams that we can't reach a

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consensus on, but I really and that's all Grant here,

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we will reach it. We'll try to reach a consensus

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on what's the podcast cast grade? What can we haggle over,

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so that'll be a different type of discussion. And finally,

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before I throw it back to Grant's even has anything

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to add, I will put for anyone watching on YouTube

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the meat and potatoes of the off season up on screen.

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But like we're generally not if you if your team's

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two Ways aren't on there, those things get moved around

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so much and they're never, almost never going to factor

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in to your grade a ton. So if you see

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it on screen and you're mad that we didn't include

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that your team signed these three guys to two Ways,

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I honestly don't care, but I didn't want to get

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out in front of it like that. We have a

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doc with all the transactions, but I'm trying to fit

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it on screen. There is one team though, that automatically

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gets an f because they made me do two slides

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for this one grant and as you know I told

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you this before or even record, I wasn't happy about it.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: No, the one way to really hurt your grade is

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to force Dan to do more work than is necessary.

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Speaker 2: So one other thing.

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Speaker 3: Maybe this is just like just kind of a concept

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to FLAG because I do think in our regrades we

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got some good feedback just about like I think we

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need to sort of And this is hard because the

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teams don't just say like, here's what we're trying to do, right, like,

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here are our goals for They.

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Speaker 1: Tell me you don't get those what they do.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm not on that. I'm not c seed on that.

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Speaker 1: There's me like fifty thousand feet of absolute dog shit

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and then WOJ and shams and right right right.

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Speaker 2: Right, So you're privy to all this.

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Speaker 3: But for me, I think I'm going to try to

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just understand, like, Okay, what was the intention for this

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offseason as far as like are we.

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Speaker 2: Stripping it down?

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Speaker 3: Are we trying to make a top four seed out

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of this roster? Are we trying to make the plant

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like that kind of thing? And then I'm going to

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try to be like in a sort of a case

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by case try to evaluate like how well they did

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that right, So it's it's a little bit it's kind

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of what you're saying about, like, oh, second Apron teams

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that kept spending, that's good, or like a second Apron

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team that cuts costs because they're cheap, that's bad.

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Speaker 2: Like that. You know, that's an extreme example.

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Speaker 3: If you're in the second Apron, you probably should try

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to get out unless you're a title contender, But you

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get the idea, right, Like, I'm trying to be more

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like grading on a scale of like because every team's

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trying to do something different to some it's.

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Speaker 1: The situation specific matters. But you also want to be

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like uniform in the sense that if there are two

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teams that are on similar timelines, have similar aims, but

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they go about it in varying paths, like you want

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to hold them to the same bar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair. It's just it's like grading

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the Wizards is different than grading the Bucks.

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Speaker 1: Like that's just you know, there will invariably be people

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in the comments that are just like, well, how does

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like so and so get an A and the other

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one got to see what we will be breaking this

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up by division with time stamps as we we don't

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tend to do, but we did it by division last year.

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But we're doing the whole Eastern Conference at this point

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and grant unless you have any questions, qualms, other comments,

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I think we can get started.

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Speaker 2: Nope, that's plenty of throat clearing.

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Speaker 3: I'll run down the Hawks here had the number one

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pick in the draft, took Zachary resa Che. That's like

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pretty clearly their most consequential draft pick in a while

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since probably since Trey. The other biggest move traded Jonte Murray,

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got back Dyson Daniels, Larry Nance, e J Lidell, Cody

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Zeller got a twenty twenty five first via the Lakers

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and the less favorable of Milwaukee or New Orleans twenty

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seven first.

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Speaker 2: There's top four protection on that. Those are the two

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big ones.

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Speaker 3: Picked up Garrison Matthews two million dollar team option. Traded

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aj Griffin to Houston for cash and a second rounder.

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That's I mean, resigned Vie Crazie for four years ten million.

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Only one of those is guaranteed. I think that's the

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big that those are the big transactions.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me, I know we said we're going to factor

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in two ways, but getting Dominic Barlowe is an absolute

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I was.

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Speaker 3: Gonna say when in the intro, when you were saying

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I'm not gonna we're not gonna list every little thing,

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and I always was gonna chime in and say, like,

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so you may not hear Dominic Barlow's name specifically.

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Speaker 2: Turns out you will, we do.

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Speaker 3: Dominic Barlow is one of those guys that we like

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romanticize as a two player. So I can't believe that

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the Spurs were just like like, we're not even a yeah,

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but uh, the Hawk's get a plus because they have not.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead.

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Speaker 1: What's what is the more pivotable move to you for

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this franchise? Is it the Dejonte Murray trade or the

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decision to go with Zachary Receichet at number one unless

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you feel very strongly about sending aj Griffin to Houston.

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Speaker 2: For yeah, I was gonna go the option. See No,

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I mean it's so I guess we may as well

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get into it.

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Speaker 3: Like this draft was so you know, just uninspiring at

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the top that like I don't I mean, I guess

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I guess I would put it this way if the

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reces shape pick does end up being really consequential, that's

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a great outcome because it will probably mean that he,

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oh my god, he did deserve to be number one.

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Speaker 2: That like, how did we not see it? Like that

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kind of thing, like, oh, he's Nick Batoon plus you

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know going forward something like that, which even that feels

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like a low bar for a number one overall pick.

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But I suppose it's that just because the variance involved.

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I wanted to ask you.

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Speaker 3: Though, though, and you can give me your thoughts on

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which is more consequential, Like the de Jontay Murray trade.

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Is there a way to frame it positively for Atlanta

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in terms of its grade this offseason or is it

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just you know, you.

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Speaker 2: The first trade didn't work.

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Speaker 3: You had to take back what you could get and

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move him on, so therefore that was a failure. This

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trade is bad, Like can you spin it positively? Like

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they balance the roster? Like how do you view it?

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Speaker 1: So I think you need to start with you throw

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out what they gave up to get to Jontay Murray

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because now we're years in the past, removed from that,

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and you could ding them for continuing to keep a

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flawed partnership with Trey Young together, I think, and then

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from there you have to go, do you think they

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got the best return that was one out there and

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or two that's best for their franchise in its direction?

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And I think that point is more interesting to me

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to where they really went with a future focused return

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here even though they don't control their next three draft picks,

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And so I find that curious, and I would be

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willing to bet substantial amounts of money if I was

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a gambler in any sense of the word, that they

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could have gotten more first round equity from another team,

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but that they valued Dice and Daniels that highly, which

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when you look at the backup point guard situation what

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they need defensively, I kind of get, but like he

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also has a right now almost needs the ball on

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offense unless you're gonna have them, you know, create it

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ton a space rim or use him as a screener

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or something. So I viewed this honestly as kind of

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a net neutral move, Like if we were grading moves

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in a vacuum, I'm not gonna give them a failing

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grade because it didn't work out with de Jontay Murray. Again,

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that move is separate, but Like, if I'm the Hawks,

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I know that they didn't want brandon Ingram, But like,

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for where you're at in your like franchise trajectory, because

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of the draft obligations you do. Oh, from the Dejante

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Murray trade, I probably would have liked to have seen, Oh,

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there's another immediate impact player here other than Larry Nance

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who's injured all the time and is even gonna play

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with Janeen Johnson, Akonguin and Capella in town. And so

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that's the thing I'm struggling with because look two first,

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and Dyson Daniels, let's just call him another first, I

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don't think he's a lottery prospect at this point, but like,

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even if you thought he was, all right, let's just

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call him a top number ten, the equival of number

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ten in this year's draft or something. I think the

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value in a vacuum is fine. And also Larry Nance

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Junior is good. I don't know. And you mentioned the

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word rebalance the roster. I do believe it did that,

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but I don't know if it made is Atlanta's roster

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better as a result.

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Speaker 3: See, I think you I think you have to say

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now that Daniels fit is really intriguing just because he's

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like he's basically everything Trey Young isn't and so like

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oh on the on the thinking of like, well that

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then that works, right, they like they you know, Daniels

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is the defender and the passer and is just trying

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to make the connective play and Trey Young is the scorer.

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Speaker 2: Who doesn't you know, like it, who doesn't defend. I

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don't know. That's why I use the word balance. It's

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hard for me to.

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Speaker 3: Argue that the Hawk's roster is better today than it

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was with the Jontay Murray, which is like, I mean,

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maybe maybe it is, but I think I think they

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gave up.

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Speaker 2: There's no debate that they gave up.

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Speaker 3: The best player in the trade and their situation, as

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you pointed out, where they don't really benefit from losing

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so because they don't have their draft picks, so like

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it seems they're just in such a weird spot like

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and oh, by the way, they got the number one pick.

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It's such a weird thing, because it does they should

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be trying to win more games and get better because

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they're you know, they have several veterans. Trey Young is

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on a max deal, and I think that the Murray

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trade makes them worse this coming season just in terms

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of like total talent. So I'm really struggling with.

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Speaker 2: The idea that like, yeah, that that.

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Speaker 3: Backcourt mix didn't work. It didn't seem like something that

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had much of a future. But at the same time,

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I don't know that the new setup is like, oh, they're, oh,

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they're gonna win five more games.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that's the case.

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Speaker 3: So I'm struggling with like the very the last thing

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we talked about of like we're got to try to

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figure out what Atlanta's aims are here and then how

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does the Murray trade specifically fit into those?

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Speaker 2: And I just I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: There's I guess there's two interesting things. Is one, let's

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start here. Do they deserve credit though, like, let's just

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what we don't know what them Like, let's just say

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Brandon Ingram was like the best player they could have

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acquired in any de Jontey Murray trade that was established.

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Do they deserve credit for kind of not going that

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route because this is a team that's very tax conscious

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brand Ingram's up for a new deal. I also don't

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love that fit with Trey Young in the first place,

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and so to bet on Dice and Daniels, which but

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to my this would be the second point of it.

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I didn't realize I was gonna touch on it. But like,

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if anything, I do think you've amped up the Trey

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Young minutes when he's on the court, because they were

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a net plus when Trey Young played without Janta Murray

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last year, and the most used lineup in that scenario

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only played about three hundred possessions. Trey Young, Bogdanovich, Sadik

363
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Bai Jallen Johnson, and a Kung Wu. If you just

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throw I know he does a little, it makes your

365
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spacing a little wonky. But you throw Dyson Daniels into

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the Sadik bay spot, that lineup that I just mentioned

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was a plus fourteen point five points per one hundred possessions.

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You've probably jacked up the defense of that group without

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damaging the offense too much. Because if you believe in

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Johnson shooting, we of course believe in what Bogdanovic can

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do on our away from the ball. So it feels

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like and then just the optionality of having Larry Nanz

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Junior in the fold, it feels like with this trade

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they have bolstered the time or let's say optimize the

375
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time that Trey Young will play. But now the question becomes, Okay,

376
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what did they do during the ten to twenty minutes

377
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,879
per game just depending on the night that he is

378
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not on the court, And that feels like it's a

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little bit riskier. And then I do think, obviously this

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00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:05,039
gets into the Zacharisische of it all. Now you are

381
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relying on a ton of young guys. It feels like

382
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:09,200
Janeen Johnson is not a finished product, even though he

383
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,519
was in the most improved conversation last year. But even

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more so, it's oh, like Resa, Shanye, Dyson Daniels are

385
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gonna have real roles on this team, and unless you

386
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,039
just believe that your point guard minutes are gonna be

387
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,480
entirely soaked up by Dyson Daniels and Trey Young, and

388
00:17:22,519 --> 00:17:24,880
maybe if you want to use Bogdanovics as the primary playmaker,

389
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you're also kind of like, good, I'm assuming gonna be

390
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,599
somewhat reliant on Kobe Buffkin to where he wasn't even

391
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,400
like in your rear view mirror last year.

392
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Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe so, I think as I'm sort of trying

393
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,720
to steer towards a grade here.

394
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Speaker 2: I guess I would.

395
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Speaker 3: I would say I'm not sure that that the team

396
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:48,680
is actually better, but definitely there are more options. There's

397
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a little more flexibility. You've got a couple incoming firsts,

398
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:58,039
you have smaller contracts, you have Daniels projectable like starter upside.

399
00:17:58,079 --> 00:18:00,680
Maybe Larry Nance is not nothing like, that's someone you

400
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,000
could flip or use if you end up trading Capella

401
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:03,720
or whatever.

402
00:18:04,319 --> 00:18:05,880
Speaker 2: So I don't think they're better.

403
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,799
Speaker 3: I think they have some more options, which is like,

404
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,799
that's a real positive when you're in a weird situation

405
00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:14,200
where you're you know, you're probably a playing team and

406
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,720
you could pivot one way or the other. Maybe that

407
00:18:16,839 --> 00:18:19,839
wasn't as plausible with last year's roster. I don't know,

408
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:21,920
are you kind of on the same page or are

409
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,759
you thinking like this. I guess I'm telegraphing like I'm

410
00:18:25,799 --> 00:18:27,880
in the mid. I'm not going real high or real

411
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,920
low here. Grade wise, Yeah, I think there.

412
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Speaker 1: I do think there's a chance that they wind up

413
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,519
being much better than they were last season, but I'm

414
00:18:34,519 --> 00:18:36,039
not sure if that has to do with the bar

415
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:37,759
off which they're working.

416
00:18:37,839 --> 00:18:39,680
Speaker 3: Well, and I'm not sure that has much to do

417
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,119
with the trade necessarily. It might just be Tray as healthier,

418
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,440
Johnson takes a step forward to Kong Wu, same thing,

419
00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:46,359
like that kind of thing.

420
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Speaker 1: The other stuff that I'm kind of struggling with here

421
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,680
is I mean, like they just gave up aj Griffin

422
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,359
at the nadea of his value and I still think

423
00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,200
that dude could play. So that's something I'm gonna give

424
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,559
them a demerit for another demerit. By the way, the

425
00:18:57,599 --> 00:19:00,319
fact we haven't talked about this yet, they're just sitting

426
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,079
on the bi annual on the mid level because they're

427
00:19:03,079 --> 00:19:06,119
so tax content there. I think they're about five million

428
00:19:06,319 --> 00:19:10,319
under the first apron that. I mean, we're always gonna

429
00:19:10,319 --> 00:19:12,359
digging teams for being cheap, but like that just lends

430
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,440
itself to the obfuscation of their direction, where it's like,

431
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,759
what are we doing here? And yes, you can use

432
00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:20,160
the mid level as a trade exception, but we all

433
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,200
know that the Hawks aren't gonna do that, Like that's

434
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,079
just not gonna happen, Like they're not going to add

435
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,240
to this team like that. Now, you could also fight

436
00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:28,640
back by saying, well, who are they supposed to sign?

437
00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:31,160
Could have given Naji Marshall more money than the Mavericks did. Like,

438
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:32,480
there's the name right there that would have been a

439
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,480
perfect fit for this roster. So I just I don't

440
00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:39,240
hate the I also, how do you feel about the

441
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,279
decision to go to with Reci's Shay. We haven't even

442
00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:43,359
gotten really into that, like with relative to the other

443
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:44,519
options at their disposal.

444
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Speaker 3: I mean, the Read Shepherd of it all is hanging

445
00:19:47,799 --> 00:19:49,400
out there, but they were just not going to draft

446
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:50,039
Read Shepherd.

447
00:19:50,079 --> 00:19:50,519
Speaker 2: I just don't.

448
00:19:50,559 --> 00:19:52,279
Speaker 3: I don't think And now you want to draft the

449
00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:56,200
best player, and I don't know. It seems apparent now

450
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,039
that like if you were redoing the draft based on

451
00:19:58,079 --> 00:20:00,119
summer league, based on whatever, you might be more or

452
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:00,559
inclined to.

453
00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:03,559
Speaker 2: Say, oh, Reach Shepard was the best player available, like

454
00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:04,680
a team with Trey Jung.

455
00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:08,079
Speaker 3: I just I can understand not doing that, And from

456
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:09,960
what we know of Sarro, it seems like that would

457
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,000
have been at least as risky.

458
00:20:11,079 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 2: So like, I don't really know what to do with it.

459
00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:14,759
I would give I would.

460
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Speaker 3: Give the drafting of Resa sche in isolation a see,

461
00:20:18,279 --> 00:20:20,640
like just because yeah, we don't know enough. Yeah, it

462
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,680
seems although if you're grading's specifically against the decision not

463
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:24,519
to go with Alex Sharr.

464
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,279
Speaker 1: Now basing this off summer League, it looks great. I

465
00:20:27,319 --> 00:20:30,319
do think though, following the addition of Diyce and Daniels

466
00:20:30,319 --> 00:20:33,240
I like Zachary Resische more than had they gone with

467
00:20:33,799 --> 00:20:37,720
Aron Holland or Stefan, like someone with more drum shooting concerns.

468
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:39,519
Not that any of those guys were ever in the

469
00:20:39,599 --> 00:20:42,000
I mean even Sar himself, not that any of them

470
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,960
are really in the running for the number one pick,

471
00:20:44,279 --> 00:20:46,200
and the idea of someone I do think it takes

472
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,720
a little bit of gall to draft someone that no

473
00:20:48,759 --> 00:20:50,920
one's really painted him as Starr upside that he's viewed

474
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,359
as he's gonna be plugging play. He'll hustle in transition

475
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,880
and hopefully he hits his corner threes, and he'll work

476
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,319
on defense, and he might never be elite at any

477
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,680
of those things. And so I underst I would understand

478
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,680
the impetus to go with the bigger swing. And I'm

479
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,599
not a guy who drafts for fit, but like, if

480
00:21:04,599 --> 00:21:06,599
you went with the more well rounded prospect, do you

481
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,119
think can contribute immediately. We just talked about how they

482
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,519
need to have immediate aspirations, and so I'm fine with it.

483
00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:14,000
I'd be in the sea range just because I don't

484
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,480
think we know enough. Yeah, And my only other thought

485
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,279
with them is I do like bringing back crazy because

486
00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:20,920
it feels like they now have a bunch of just

487
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,400
at least tryhards and worker bees on defense now like

488
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:29,680
larrd Ns, Junior Dyson, Daniels Crache, like Jalen Johnson's kind

489
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:30,200
of malleable.

490
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 3: You can get better on that end of the floor,

491
00:21:31,759 --> 00:21:35,240
for sure. So in a Kung Wu, of course, I

492
00:21:35,279 --> 00:21:37,519
feel like I'm gonna end up. I don't know what, like,

493
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,200
want to get to a grade? Do you have anything

494
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,400
else to add? No, no, no, I was just gonna say, like,

495
00:21:42,279 --> 00:21:44,200
my I feel like it's a cop out, but it

496
00:21:44,319 --> 00:21:47,319
just feel it feels like a C to me, And

497
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,519
I'm I'm willing to be talked into like C plus

498
00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:52,519
or C minus based on because the thing he brought

499
00:21:52,599 --> 00:21:55,559
is just the constant like, let's not pay the tax,

500
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,960
Like I just I don't know that's it feels like

501
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,319
that's so unambitious that it warrants like a little bit

502
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,680
of a knock. But should you pay the tax for

503
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,960
a team that might top out at like forty two wins.

504
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,759
I don't know, I maybe probably not so in the

505
00:22:08,799 --> 00:22:09,920
same area, like.

506
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you have to look at this and say,

507
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,359
where was the above average move by them?

508
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:16,400
Speaker 2: Don't see it?

509
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 1: They didn't have one.

510
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,519
Speaker 3: I think the closest they get is crachy like it's

511
00:22:20,519 --> 00:22:21,880
just like, oh, look at that, like it's only one

512
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,680
year and that's just but it's not.

513
00:22:23,839 --> 00:22:25,880
Speaker 1: You said, why I'm going C minus. I can't get

514
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,960
down to a D because I feel like that harps

515
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,960
too much on like, oh, like, look at what they

516
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,960
gave up for de Jontay Murray versus. But you don't

517
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,039
you haven't really carved out a specific direction and the

518
00:22:35,079 --> 00:22:37,480
fact that you know, you don't control your picks, and

519
00:22:37,519 --> 00:22:40,400
like we're still sitting here quibbling over like, oh, they

520
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,559
didn't use the like the they could use the bi

521
00:22:42,599 --> 00:22:44,559
annual and still not have been life in the first

522
00:22:44,599 --> 00:22:48,240
eighteen territory. So I just that's why I'm going C minus,

523
00:22:48,279 --> 00:22:51,240
because I think that drags their gray down inevitably and

524
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,359
that's just which again, it's still around an average offseason,

525
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,920
But I think C minus is the way to go

526
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,960
unless you feel strongly about going to this year.

527
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 3: I think that feels right. I think that feels right.

528
00:23:00,279 --> 00:23:01,759
So let's give him a C minus.

529
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,799
Speaker 1: Our next team up is the your Charlotte Hornets. I

530
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,319
have to just assign every team to you now. They

531
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,359
hired Charles Lee as their head coach. They opted to

532
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,079
draft Tjan Salon at number six. They also drafted kJ

533
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,240
Simpson at number forty two. He signed a two way.

534
00:23:19,839 --> 00:23:23,240
They acquired Josh Green Reggie Jackson, who has since been waived,

535
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,599
Denvers twenty twenty nine second, Denvers twenty thirty second for

536
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,160
their own twenty twenty five second round pick and cash

537
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,519
that was part of a larger six team trade. They

538
00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:35,640
re signed Miles Bridges three year, seventy five million dollars.

539
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,480
The salary declines year over year. They acquired Devonte Graham,

540
00:23:39,519 --> 00:23:42,240
who was guaranteed three million dollars and New Orleans's twenty

541
00:23:42,279 --> 00:23:45,400
twenty five second from the Spurs. They signed Taj Gibson

542
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,880
to a one year minimum. They signed Seth Curry to

543
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,960
a one year minimum. That's about it. They did decline

544
00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:53,519
J T. Thores's team option, he remained unsigned, and they

545
00:23:53,559 --> 00:23:57,240
waved Alexey Potschewski, so they clearly get an f.

546
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, this is another one where it's kind of like.

547
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,559
Speaker 1: Well, I think so the question there's two fundamental questions

548
00:24:05,599 --> 00:24:07,240
for them. I think I'm gonna throw the first one

549
00:24:07,319 --> 00:24:11,240
to you. Do you think they made or optimized the

550
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,480
use of their cap space slash flexibility? And why? Is

551
00:24:15,519 --> 00:24:15,960
the answer?

552
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:16,039
Speaker 2: No?

553
00:24:17,599 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 3: Well, I mean maybe that just depends ultimately on like

554
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,880
how much you like Josh Green. Is that really what

555
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,720
this is gonna come down to, because that's as you're

556
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,880
as we're going through all these and I guess, like,

557
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:32,640
do you think Miles Bridges is a positive value asset

558
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,119
at about twenty five million a year?

559
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 2: I think the answer to that is probably yes, But

560
00:24:38,759 --> 00:24:39,599
I don't know.

561
00:24:39,599 --> 00:24:43,079
Speaker 3: I'm just not blown away by anything. But I also

562
00:24:43,839 --> 00:24:49,000
don't hate anything they did. I'm looking for reasons to

563
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,160
like deviate from an average grade again here because I don't.

564
00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 2: Want to do too in a row.

565
00:24:53,599 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 3: But but yeah, like what, I guess what would the

566
00:24:56,279 --> 00:25:00,960
move have been to have made better use of flexibility they.

567
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: Had not treating Josh Green's contract like an asset. Like

568
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,720
I know that they ended up getting second round picks

569
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:06,839
back in that trade, but that was because of the

570
00:25:06,839 --> 00:25:09,599
Reggie Jackson one, which the compensation they got off. That

571
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,000
was a great move, but like that was smart business

572
00:25:12,079 --> 00:25:15,079
by them. Also, I like the Charles Lee higher Like

573
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:16,599
it seems like that's someone who's gonna come in and

574
00:25:16,599 --> 00:25:19,000
make a material difference on the culture. The other thing

575
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,559
that I do think we should factor in as part

576
00:25:20,559 --> 00:25:23,720
of the grade here, as Kannada Edwards outline during our

577
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,160
Hornets look Ahead, they like overhauled the medical staff, which

578
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:28,880
was a big issue. And this is a team that's

579
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,640
now spending money in off court stuff like promising to

580
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,519
they promised to like the practice facility, like updating that

581
00:25:34,599 --> 00:25:36,319
or I think like building a new one, whatever it was.

582
00:25:36,599 --> 00:25:38,519
That's a big deal. Just when you look at kind

583
00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:41,519
of the lexicon of how Charlotte Hornets basketball is gone

584
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:44,920
under the Michael Jordan regime. I do think they got

585
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,920
like in Seth Curry, that's a nice runway out of

586
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,880
the minimum. So I dislike how they value Josh Green

587
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,440
as an asset because I disagreed. I always defer to

588
00:25:55,519 --> 00:25:57,160
our guests because they cover the team more than I do.

589
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,599
But obviously Josh Green wasn't on the Hornets. The idea

590
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:02,200
that he's this three and D guy is just wrong,

591
00:26:02,519 --> 00:26:04,920
Like he wants to have the ball more than you think,

592
00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:06,599
and he also is just not as good as a

593
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,680
defender as you think, and so he's a body that

594
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,000
you could plug in there. But when I go through

595
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,799
their offseason, that's really the only move I dislike. Because

596
00:26:15,799 --> 00:26:17,880
the Miles Bridges value, however you feel about him as

597
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,160
a human being, I think that's in line with what

598
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,559
he's gonna do on the court. And the fact that

599
00:26:21,559 --> 00:26:24,200
it declines. I don't buy into that you can't extend

600
00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:25,680
him if you need to off that. I think that

601
00:26:25,759 --> 00:26:27,559
number is gonna be high enough to extend him. I

602
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,319
also think that the contract is gonna be good enough

603
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,240
for some team to give you something. I don't think

604
00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:34,400
he finishes this deal here. I'm the thing that I'm

605
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,839
actually hung up on. I just don't know how to wait.

606
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,440
The draft is Salon would not have been my guy.

607
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,599
But I also appreciate one because they released the video

608
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,480
of their like draft pick process, but also the fact

609
00:26:45,519 --> 00:26:47,839
that they took a swing on such a project. It

610
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,240
kind of telegraphs to me that, Okay, they're taking this

611
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,359
seriously and they're not gonna short circuit, Like if I

612
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,160
had to ask you this question or the Hornet's more

613
00:26:56,279 --> 00:26:59,119
likely to try and do something that accelerates their timeline

614
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,799
or trade LaMelo, and I think neither scenario is likely,

615
00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:03,920
But I think that they're more likely to trade LaMelo

616
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,599
ball than try to make that short circuiting trade. And

617
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,640
I like that the franchise is thinking in those big

618
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,240
picture terms, and so I actually do find myself here

619
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,799
coming out a little bit more above average, even though

620
00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:17,240
I think it's like you were doing the MAVs as

621
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:18,720
solid at the end of the day with that Josh

622
00:27:18,759 --> 00:27:20,960
Green stuff, I don't know why you treated him. I'm

623
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,240
not crazy about the contract he's on. I found that

624
00:27:23,319 --> 00:27:25,880
to be damaging, but curious.

625
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,799
Speaker 3: If you're willing to go above average, I think because

626
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,559
I always have liked Josh Green, and like I can

627
00:27:31,599 --> 00:27:33,039
see that the contract is.

628
00:27:33,079 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: Can you pitch me on Josh Green? Then yeah, no.

629
00:27:35,799 --> 00:27:37,839
Speaker 3: The A couple of things I really love about him

630
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,359
are his ability to catch the ball and or drive

631
00:27:41,559 --> 00:27:44,680
and pass on the move, like these the go you

632
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,200
know YouTube the highlight reel of Josh Green's on the

633
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,240
move passing.

634
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 1: Like he plays highlight games.

635
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,559
Speaker 3: He plays too fast a lot, but I just have

636
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,799
always liked that particular aspect of his game, and he

637
00:27:56,839 --> 00:27:59,680
does play really hard. I do agree like the three

638
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,079
and DS is weird because he's kind of too small

639
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,359
to like really be the guy you'd throw at wings

640
00:28:04,799 --> 00:28:07,559
and just the catch all metrics just have generally not

641
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,799
been Josh Green fans. He's an eye test guy for

642
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,400
me a little bit, and that's as flimsy as it sounds.

643
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,960
But so like I'm I'm totally receptive to the argument

644
00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:20,880
that he's just not a positive asset on the money

645
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,640
he's making. I still just hold out a little bit

646
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,359
of hope that some of his best qualities can really matter.

647
00:28:27,079 --> 00:28:29,799
Speaker 2: But we'll see. I think just the other the last thing.

648
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 3: I'd say that's kind of skewing me towards a positive,

649
00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:36,519
you know, above average grade is the Salon pick when

650
00:28:36,519 --> 00:28:39,519
you compare it to Brandon Miller, who was like the

651
00:28:39,559 --> 00:28:42,640
safest of safe picks right last year. I do think

652
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,759
it shows like sort of a flexibility or like a

653
00:28:46,759 --> 00:28:50,000
an adaptability to like, Okay, what are the conditions. Okay,

654
00:28:50,319 --> 00:28:53,480
we are willing to take a major project now because

655
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,400
that's sort of where we are, and that's quite a

656
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,519
bit different from how they thought last offseason. So I

657
00:28:58,519 --> 00:29:01,240
don't know if that's maybe that just being wishy washy

658
00:29:01,799 --> 00:29:03,920
on the Hornets part, but I think it's I think

659
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,519
it could be painted as a positive.

660
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: So I don't know you're ready for a grade.

661
00:29:08,599 --> 00:29:08,839
Speaker 1: I'm not.

662
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,079
Speaker 3: I mean, the Gibson and Curry deals are kind of

663
00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:13,279
whatever's They're not moving the needle for me.

664
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: I do wonder if they should have gotten more for

665
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,400
taking on DeVante Graham, but like that's again, I I

666
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,599
guess if you don't like their offseason, if if we're

667
00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:24,920
coming at this from a devil's advocate perspective, like what

668
00:29:25,039 --> 00:29:28,720
else did you want it? Honestly, unless you hate Josh

669
00:29:28,759 --> 00:29:30,920
Green's contract, I don't think it's toxic. I just don't.

670
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,279
They treated it like an asset, a small asset. I

671
00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:35,400
just wouldn't have done that. When you look at what

672
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,079
Detroit did to take on Tim Hardway June, where they

673
00:29:38,119 --> 00:29:41,240
gave up Quentin Grimes, part of that process, like that

674
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,799
whole deal that the process of the Horns looks like

675
00:29:43,839 --> 00:29:46,920
a home run. Yeah, and so right, even as someone

676
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,759
who is down on Josh Green, like where is the

677
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:50,880
move where you're like, oh, this is like they were

678
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,079
supposed to do more, you would have. I think, honestly,

679
00:29:53,119 --> 00:29:56,079
you would have to hate the draft pick right, which

680
00:29:56,119 --> 00:29:57,039
is like.

681
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,799
Speaker 2: Do we know what what top ten pick? Do we

682
00:29:59,799 --> 00:30:02,759
know less about that? Like is the then than Salon? Right?

683
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: I see, I might. I'm trying to think of the

684
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,119
top ten off rip right now, but like we might

685
00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:09,039
be seeing the same thing this time next year because

686
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,480
I don't know that he's gonna have like a huge

687
00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:12,039
role out of the gate that they wind up getting

688
00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:15,079
rid of. Like this feels like a classic post trait then,

689
00:30:15,119 --> 00:30:16,640
and I'm like, that's when we start to see Salon

690
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,640
just play a bunch of minim uh So I'm prepared

691
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,240
to go I think this actually might surprise you based

692
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:23,599
off how it seems like you're a s body what

693
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,400
I was saying. I think they get a B plus.

694
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's higher than I was gonna go. I

695
00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:29,400
was thinking like C plus B minus.

696
00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:34,279
Speaker 1: I think do we compromise it a B because you're right,

697
00:30:34,359 --> 00:30:38,599
if we're using C as average, I think might be able.

698
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 3: I think my boss is almost like there's like multiple like,

699
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,480
oh my god, that was a good move and I'm

700
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:46,400
not seeing that here.

701
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,759
Speaker 1: You use the term wishy washy before I think I'm

702
00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:50,839
just looking at as like a disc like they have

703
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,480
a competent infrastructure in place, and I'm just so excited

704
00:30:54,519 --> 00:30:54,759
for it.

705
00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:58,119
Speaker 3: I think big picture, some of this spills into like

706
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,640
before the off season, but like new ownership, new front office,

707
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,400
new coach, the medical staff. Point is a great one,

708
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,599
like doing all just it's a more functional franchise that

709
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,880
seems to have an end goal as opposed to just

710
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,000
like I don't know, making money or whatever it was,

711
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,319
or not not losing money, which seemed to be the

712
00:31:15,359 --> 00:31:16,799
Michael Jordan regimes goal.

713
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 2: So I could I think maybe a flat B. Can

714
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,240
we compromise and call it a bee?

715
00:31:21,839 --> 00:31:24,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's an easy one that I the

716
00:31:24,319 --> 00:31:26,680
way you're I think you have. I'm like, I'm waiting

717
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,359
the off court like changes here a lot.

718
00:31:29,319 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 3: But there aren't many franchises where that kind of change

719
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,240
would matter more, you know than with Charlotte because it

720
00:31:36,279 --> 00:31:37,279
was so shitty for so.

721
00:31:37,359 --> 00:31:40,119
Speaker 1: Long and then having a direction matter. So yeah, I

722
00:31:40,119 --> 00:31:42,000
think I think a bee is a is a fair

723
00:31:42,039 --> 00:31:44,440
plot to be all right? That takes us too great?

724
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 3: Your my Miami Heat, I'm gonna I can't decide what

725
00:31:48,519 --> 00:31:50,759
team I'm going to give you, But it's coming. So

726
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,799
drafted Kelloware at number fifteen. Josh Richardson's back. They picked

727
00:31:54,839 --> 00:31:56,720
up his three point one million dollars player option. He

728
00:31:56,799 --> 00:31:59,240
is coming off shoulder surgery. Kevin Love also back, two

729
00:31:59,319 --> 00:32:03,599
years eight million. Got Thomas Bryant at the minimum. Some

730
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,519
second round finagling. Traded number forty three to Atlanta for

731
00:32:06,519 --> 00:32:10,960
forty four. Got Alex Burke at Alec Alec Alex Burke.

732
00:32:11,119 --> 00:32:13,839
That's like bizarro Alec Burks. That pluralized the front name,

733
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,559
first name Alex mcnow and that's there's really like why

734
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,640
Mac to pop the one year deal for him at

735
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:20,200
the minimum?

736
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:21,599
Speaker 2: Heywood Heismith two.

737
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,119
Speaker 3: Years eleven million, came on every other team in the league?

738
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,640
Fashion good signing BAM three years, one hundred and sixty

739
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,079
five million dollar extension player option twenty eight, twenty nine.

740
00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:35,920
Let's see, oh lost Caleb Martin to Philly for four

741
00:32:36,039 --> 00:32:40,200
years and thirty five million dollars. Could bring that total

742
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,920
to four years for forty point three, which is still

743
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,319
an underpay, I think, so we'll have to discuss.

744
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,119
Speaker 2: That a little bit. I mean, what are we thinking here?

745
00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 3: They got there were some you got a little bit

746
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,799
of everything here you got the bargain signing, you got

747
00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:55,000
the parents screw up where you can't figure out how

748
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,440
to make it work with Martin got the BAM extension.

749
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: Can I interject there for a second. They offered to

750
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,559
have Martin to opt in and then extend him off

751
00:33:03,559 --> 00:33:05,680
that number for another four years. That would have guaranteed

752
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,119
him substantially more than he ended up getting, right even

753
00:33:08,119 --> 00:33:10,000
on a like I think, even on an annual basis,

754
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,759
So let's just say he gets to forty over four,

755
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,559
he would have gotten more than that per year over

756
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:19,359
five with Miami. Now, I don't know, like it's a

757
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,839
misread of the market on his part, but I keep

758
00:33:21,839 --> 00:33:24,200
coming back to like we still could have just kept him,

759
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,000
like like just because he still could have kept him, and.

760
00:33:28,039 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 3: Being too harsh and not just it seemed, you know,

761
00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:32,039
now that I'm thinking back on it, it did seem

762
00:33:32,119 --> 00:33:35,039
like most of the surprise was like what was his

763
00:33:35,079 --> 00:33:37,839
agent telling him to do? Like it just it is

764
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,279
a mysterad of the market whenever this happens, though it does,

765
00:33:41,359 --> 00:33:44,079
like I'm trying to think of, certainly, like remember Neurlans

766
00:33:44,119 --> 00:33:47,319
Noel lost, Like however, many tens of millions of dollars.

767
00:33:47,119 --> 00:33:48,279
Speaker 2: That was a few years ago.

768
00:33:49,079 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 3: By getting bad advice with the MAVs, I guess yeah,

769
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,880
I mean, is it fair then should I not put

770
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,000
any of the onus on the heat for Martin?

771
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: Well? My ole thing. It's just like they're clearly they're

772
00:33:59,799 --> 00:34:02,279
so as we're recording that they're inside two million of

773
00:34:02,319 --> 00:34:04,599
the second apron and they're a team where I'm like,

774
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,000
I don't know how much to I'm sort of just like,

775
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,800
you're not good enough to really go in the second apron,

776
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,199
but you just let this dude who's super won't just

777
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:14,400
walk for nothing.

778
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,679
Speaker 3: But then it's also the heat and it's all right, well,

779
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,480
they'll just find someone else. And it's like they have

780
00:34:18,519 --> 00:34:21,239
Haime Hawke as would play the like, and nikole Jovic

781
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,440
and then even Heyward high Smith, Like you feel those

782
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,440
minutes sort of by committee here.

783
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,679
Speaker 1: I don't know how to feel about that. I do.

784
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,840
What I will say is it's not as fuck Miami's

785
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,000
process as much as it would be if like that

786
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,480
whole scenario of have him opted in that extend him

787
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:40,119
wasn't on the table so like they did put but

788
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,239
like you still could have kept him and if you

789
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,239
wanted to duck the separate apron up the sepin apron

790
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,920
the second apron. Martin's contract would have been eminently movable,

791
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,199
or someone else's contract you could have moved, And so

792
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,840
I think I think it's fair to factor that in

793
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,000
as a pretty big negative for them. It's not like

794
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,079
the F minus minus that it would have been if

795
00:34:59,119 --> 00:35:01,639
they were just like nah, like good, like yeah right.

796
00:35:02,039 --> 00:35:04,639
Speaker 3: What about One thing I didn't mention going through this

797
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,880
was they didn't give Jimmy Butler an extension, like it

798
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:08,440
would have been a.

799
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,159
Speaker 1: Smart to be honest, I think that's okay. He's an

800
00:35:11,159 --> 00:35:14,079
extra year of Jimmy Butler lockdown under guaranteed contract. What

801
00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:16,320
is that He's going into his age thirty five season,

802
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,679
He's missing like between fifteen and twenty something games every year.

803
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,440
Like I'm fine with them, not like, honestly, contract year,

804
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,679
Jimmy Butler's probably more valuable to them than a Jimmy

805
00:35:26,679 --> 00:35:28,800
Butler that has like one or two more guaranteed seasons

806
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:29,639
left on his contract.

807
00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:32,559
Speaker 3: And kind of like my crusade against extending guys before

808
00:35:32,679 --> 00:35:35,320
restricted free agency, I'm also like, I'm on board with

809
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,199
just like you're under contract, we don't need to just

810
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,000
be throwing extra years at you through your late thirties

811
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:42,719
just just to keep you happy.

812
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 2: Like I brought it up, I think it's a positive.

813
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:46,920
I don't think they should have extended him.

814
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: I'm like kind of just whatever on it, but like,

815
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,039
can we have the same energy that people like, how

816
00:35:51,079 --> 00:35:53,039
could they not extend them? About like the working class?

817
00:35:53,039 --> 00:35:55,199
Like where Grant in minds extensions, Like.

818
00:35:55,159 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 3: We're like, oh man, okay, we got there's a lot here.

819
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:02,880
The BAM thing is a no brainer?

820
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,079
Speaker 2: Well is it?

821
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,079
Speaker 1: Here's my I'm not in the way that you think

822
00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:10,400
I'm going to go with this. If you were them,

823
00:36:10,599 --> 00:36:13,599
would you have preferred to have waited until next summer

824
00:36:13,639 --> 00:36:17,079
to get him for an extra year? Because now you're

825
00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:19,039
kind of it's in a weird situation where this is

826
00:36:19,079 --> 00:36:21,840
going to be I think his age thirty one season

827
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,000
when he has that player option, and so it almost

828
00:36:24,039 --> 00:36:26,760
makes sense like that's weird territory be a lot easier

829
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,920
if he's like entering his age thirty two season or

830
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:30,679
whatever it is, and be like okay like that. I

831
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,880
just I'm just wondering if you factor that in at

832
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:34,440
all or is it just kind of you don't have

833
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,239
a ton of long term certainty at this point, so

834
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,880
we have him locked up for the next because this

835
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,320
doesn't start until twenty six, twenty seven.

836
00:36:42,679 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 3: I hadn't thought about it until just now, but I

837
00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:49,440
think I think I prefer them because it is it

838
00:36:49,519 --> 00:36:51,760
is like BAM friendly to do it now because he

839
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,159
gets the free agency a year earlier, right, as opposed

840
00:36:54,199 --> 00:36:57,239
to the heat would have benefited more by waiting going longer.

841
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,199
I think if you'd if you had sort of this

842
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,079
is exaggeration, but had sort of said like, no, not

843
00:37:03,119 --> 00:37:05,559
going to do it to both BAM and Jimmy Butler,

844
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,800
I think maybe those two would kind of look at

845
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,519
each other, like what do we what's going on with

846
00:37:09,559 --> 00:37:12,480
this organization? Like that's they're just We're just not important

847
00:37:12,519 --> 00:37:15,960
anymore so at least because Bam, I mean, over the

848
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,920
next five years, BAM just matters more than Jimmy. Right,

849
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,320
maybe not this year, but but like but maybe this

850
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,320
year because BAM might just be better than him now.

851
00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 2: I think I think that makes it.

852
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 3: I'm not going to move the grade one way or

853
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,840
the other based on like when they extended him, But

854
00:37:32,039 --> 00:37:34,320
I think I would rather have just locked him down,

855
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,199
done him a slight favor by letting him back into

856
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,599
free agency a year early, as opposed to like the

857
00:37:39,679 --> 00:37:41,880
Jimmy thing, which is different because of the age factor.

858
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: I think that's fair.

859
00:37:43,599 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 3: H what do you Why did Kevin Love have to

860
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,559
get more than the minimum I just signed for them?

861
00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: I just don't understand that at all. I do like

862
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,119
the Alec Burk's minimum signing is I think very good,

863
00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:56,480
that's great value. High Smith is a home run, like

864
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,559
just that's just like I can't I mean, you would say, well,

865
00:38:00,599 --> 00:38:03,199
like it's not longer, would be like like, why isn't

866
00:38:03,199 --> 00:38:06,920
this like three years? Like so there's there's that to consider.

867
00:38:07,039 --> 00:38:10,039
But that's like he got mini mid level money as

868
00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:12,679
someone who I thought was gonna get like non tax

869
00:38:12,679 --> 00:38:15,119
payer mid level. I mean, clearly I read the market,

870
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:16,960
but he's by those standards.

871
00:38:17,199 --> 00:38:21,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, he seems like he seems worth the total value

872
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:24,159
of the contract, which is eleven like per year. It's

873
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:25,880
I mean, I mean even that might I mean I

874
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,920
don't want to get crazy about it, but like he's

875
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,199
just a good rotation player that you could probably start

876
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,840
consistently and have no issues if you have enough like

877
00:38:34,519 --> 00:38:37,599
high end scoring talent around him. So The other thing

878
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,239
is a lot of people are pretty big in on

879
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,079
kellaware after Summer League as like he might start I

880
00:38:44,079 --> 00:38:46,079
don't know how realistic that is, but there was chatter

881
00:38:46,119 --> 00:38:48,719
about that, like if he's that good as a like

882
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,880
athletic offensive force, like you could play him with Bam,

883
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,679
that that's plausible.

884
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,679
Speaker 1: And Heat have kind of been flirting with that for

885
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,960
a while where we saw them start Kevin Love next

886
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,880
to Bam for a little bit before getting away from that.

887
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,920
And then remember before I think it was a couple

888
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,079
of years ago, before Omer your at seven got injured,

889
00:39:04,079 --> 00:39:06,320
there was talk of like those two playing together a ton.

890
00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:08,400
So it seems like they've kind of had this doll

891
00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:11,000
ince with that we want to play two bigs together,

892
00:39:11,199 --> 00:39:13,400
and so if they think that this can work, and look,

893
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,880
Bam was getting up some threes for some of thesa

894
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,519
stretches from the corner. I don't know how to grade

895
00:39:20,519 --> 00:39:22,199
that pick. A lot of people say that they had

896
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,440
where as a lottery talent. They got him outside the lottery,

897
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,679
So that's most if anything, is probably a little bit

898
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,280
above water, but we need to see it in.

899
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 3: Actually yeah yeah, yeah, no, where are you at with

900
00:39:30,519 --> 00:39:36,639
this team? I mean, I think based on the Highsmith deal,

901
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,880
I do think where seems like a value, even though,

902
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:40,519
like you.

903
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,599
Speaker 2: Know, it's not real smart to just start waiting the draft.

904
00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:47,079
Speaker 3: I don't see anything I really hate. I guess the

905
00:39:47,159 --> 00:39:49,639
Kevin Love thing that you pointed out seems a little rich.

906
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:54,360
So this is feeling like a bee to me. Maybe

907
00:39:54,519 --> 00:39:56,280
maybe I would be more inclined to go.

908
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,679
Speaker 2: Higher than lower if from the bee like baseline, I think.

909
00:40:00,559 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: We're in lockstep with the bee because I don't know,

910
00:40:03,519 --> 00:40:05,400
like it just depends on how you feel about the

911
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,119
Kayla Martin stuff. But I don't think he's enough. When

912
00:40:08,119 --> 00:40:11,000
they did at least lay out the scenario of okay,

913
00:40:11,039 --> 00:40:13,320
like we'll pay you more money, but you have to

914
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,480
like take continue to be on this bargain being contract

915
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,440
for another year. I still think they should have kept

916
00:40:18,519 --> 00:40:22,039
him and then figured it out later. But uh, yeah,

917
00:40:22,039 --> 00:40:24,159
I think I think a b is fair because that's

918
00:40:24,159 --> 00:40:26,880
the only thing to really just you can't feel like

919
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,840
be like enraged by the Kevin Love contract. I don't

920
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,239
understand it, but it's not something to be raged about.

921
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,400
So I think a bee is fair, and I don't

922
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,360
know if i'd be inclined to go higher, but a

923
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,199
lot of that might just depend, as you out late

924
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:39,639
at the beginning of Well, if you think it's a

925
00:40:39,639 --> 00:40:42,559
good thing that they didn't extend Jimmy Butler, like that's

926
00:40:42,599 --> 00:40:45,719
the just like to get BAM locked down, Hayward high Smith,

927
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,719
I'm the like, there's no even the like. The only

928
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,599
two things you can take issue with, I think as

929
00:40:50,639 --> 00:40:53,239
of right now, or the Kevin Love contract that's small

930
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,519
and the Kayla Martin departure, which they weren't just idle

931
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,920
when it came to that. So I think a B

932
00:40:59,159 --> 00:41:00,639
is fair. But you if you want to try and

933
00:41:00,639 --> 00:41:02,159
talk me into a B plus be my guest.

934
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,119
Speaker 3: No, if I were to do that, it would be

935
00:41:04,159 --> 00:41:07,119
based on just how much I sort of enjoy the

936
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,639
not not giving Butler the extension, but that you why

937
00:41:12,639 --> 00:41:14,400
don't you want Jimmy Butler to get Is it because

938
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:15,719
his coffee is overpriced?

939
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, that's really all it is. No, I just

940
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,519
I just think, like, I don't.

941
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,079
Speaker 3: Know, maybe I'm just into the idea of teams sort

942
00:41:23,079 --> 00:41:27,320
of just not operating the same way all the time,

943
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,960
where it's just the moment you have extension eligibility if

944
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,119
you're above a certain level, you get it regardless of how

945
00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:37,440
old you are and regardless of how the injury bug

946
00:41:37,519 --> 00:41:40,480
and like your time missed just you know, makes you

947
00:41:40,519 --> 00:41:42,719
somewhat unreliable now, let alone.

948
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,159
Speaker 2: Like in three years. I just I don't know, but yeah,

949
00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:47,320
I can't. It might be a mistake because Jimmy Butler

950
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:48,559
might be pissed off all year.

951
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,039
Speaker 3: And that might not be a good thing for the Heat.

952
00:41:50,079 --> 00:41:51,960
It could be a contract year thing, like you said,

953
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,079
but it can't move the needle too much.

954
00:41:54,119 --> 00:41:55,079
Speaker 2: So I think a be is right.

955
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:56,679
Speaker 1: And the other thing is too is if you're trying

956
00:41:56,679 --> 00:41:59,119
to look at opportunities they passed on. There was just

957
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,800
nothing that we heard in terms of trade murmurings where

958
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,199
it's like they should have Yeah, they should have been

959
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:04,920
in on Larry market and they never would have got him,

960
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,400
and nobody ended up getting him. So that brings us

961
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:13,079
too your hmmm, because they're all they're all your team

962
00:42:13,079 --> 00:42:19,079
Grant Orlando Magic. They did stuff like another offseas, so

963
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,800
we'll start here. They drafted Tristan to Silver at number eighteen,

964
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,519
drafted Antonio Res at number forty seven. They signed casep

965
00:42:25,639 --> 00:42:28,199
away from the Nuggets three years, sixty six million player

966
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,400
option on that final season. Gogopatadza got three years and

967
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,719
twenty five million, no options, fully guaranteed on a declining scale.

968
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,760
Gary Harris two years, fifteen million, got a team options.

969
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,880
There's a team option on that latter year. Jonathan Isaac

970
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,320
renegotiate and extended to five years eighty four million. Average

971
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,079
annual value about sixteen point eight. The salary declines as

972
00:42:50,119 --> 00:42:53,199
the contract ages, and there are as usual like the

973
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,320
protections caked in for the Mavericks. The Mavericks the Mavericks.

974
00:42:56,559 --> 00:42:59,800
Mo Wagner two years, twenty two million, flat rate, no options.

975
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,679
Franz Wagner got five year a five year max, so

976
00:43:03,679 --> 00:43:06,679
two hundred and twenty four point two estimated it could

977
00:43:06,679 --> 00:43:08,480
go to two sixty nine point one if he makes

978
00:43:08,519 --> 00:43:11,519
all NBA. There are no options on it. Corey Joseph

979
00:43:11,519 --> 00:43:13,599
signed a two year minimum deal team option on that

980
00:43:13,639 --> 00:43:16,679
final season, and because he's like kind of a cult guy,

981
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,559
they signed Treveling Queen to a two way contract. Notable

982
00:43:20,639 --> 00:43:24,239
things here, We're gonna we might have to during regrades.

983
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,599
We haven't seen a jail on jail and Suggs extension yet.

984
00:43:28,119 --> 00:43:30,639
And then Joe Ingles signed with the Timberwolves and Markel

985
00:43:30,679 --> 00:43:35,599
Foltz clearly not coming back. He remains unsigned. H Grant,

986
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,199
How do you feel about this offseason?

987
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 3: I feel as if we were going to have to

988
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,360
concede that we loved the KCP signing at the time,

989
00:43:43,639 --> 00:43:48,440
like irrationally so just because it was it felt maybe

990
00:43:48,559 --> 00:43:50,039
I don't want to speak for you, but it felt

991
00:43:50,039 --> 00:43:52,639
at the time like, Okay, Orlando's gonna.

992
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,159
Speaker 2: Go do the things we've been asking him to do.

993
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,559
They're gonna go get like another three and D shooting guard.

994
00:43:57,679 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 3: Surely there's you know, a a an offensive organizer coming

995
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,320
to replace Folts or at least someone you could kind

996
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,400
of put into that three guard rotation with KCP and

997
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:13,639
Suggs that did not happen. So we need to get

998
00:44:13,639 --> 00:44:17,239
off the idea that like the KCP signing was more

999
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,119
important than it was. I think it's just as a

1000
00:44:19,159 --> 00:44:20,960
starting point because at that point where were like, oh

1001
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,840
my god, this is gonna be an a off season, right,

1002
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,719
Like I reallyst that's kind of how I felt.

1003
00:44:25,639 --> 00:44:26,559
Speaker 2: Spoiler, it will.

1004
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:31,639
Speaker 3: Not be that, I guess, like big picture, the only

1005
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:36,639
contract that I'm like really not comfortable with is Franz's Max.

1006
00:44:37,199 --> 00:44:39,760
I just think, you know, the shooting last year may

1007
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,599
have been a blip, twenty eight percent from three. He

1008
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,960
was much better than that the two previous seasons. This

1009
00:44:46,119 --> 00:44:49,440
is a situation where I don't really feel like there

1010
00:44:49,519 --> 00:44:54,239
was a there was any urgency or any compelling reason

1011
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,320
to say something other than like, okay, earn it because

1012
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,519
we still have restricted free agency next summer.

1013
00:44:59,559 --> 00:45:02,039
Speaker 2: Like there. This is kind of the one that really

1014
00:45:02,039 --> 00:45:05,280
triggered my like, ooh, are we really just throwing these

1015
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,760
extensions out like no problem to everybody? He could prove

1016
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:10,320
me wrong. He could be an All Star this year.

1017
00:45:10,519 --> 00:45:12,519
It just seemed early. And if he were. If he

1018
00:45:12,559 --> 00:45:13,880
is an All Star this year, guess what.

1019
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 3: The Magic still have the inside track to keeping him

1020
00:45:17,159 --> 00:45:18,760
and nobody else can pay him more.

1021
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 2: So that's that.

1022
00:45:21,519 --> 00:45:29,079
Speaker 3: Ultimately, though, I think this offseason felt insufficiently ambitious for

1023
00:45:29,519 --> 00:45:32,679
I think what we were hoping for, And so I

1024
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,840
don't know, well, first of all, do you agree with that? Like,

1025
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,079
are you ultimately disappointed with what Orlando ended up doing?

1026
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 2: Just alltogether?

1027
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,559
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm disappointed. It was anticlimactic though,

1028
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,039
for sure, and I had the same concerns about the

1029
00:45:47,079 --> 00:45:49,760
Franz Wodnary contract and you basically decided I know you

1030
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,960
kind of did this because you gave Gogo Batadze money

1031
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,199
that leaks out into next year. Same with Jonathan Isaac

1032
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,400
and Kntavious called bo Pope, but you pumped it on

1033
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,360
a bunch of flexibility by just maxing out like you

1034
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,039
would have said, it's his cap hold would have been

1035
00:46:02,199 --> 00:46:04,159
more than fifteen million dollars lower than he's on the

1036
00:46:04,199 --> 00:46:06,800
books for next season, which is thirty eight point eight million.

1037
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,360
And I ultimately don't think and I hate that we

1038
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,760
have to talk about this way because Magic fans are

1039
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,480
gonna be mad. But if you can't admit this, Franz

1040
00:46:13,519 --> 00:46:16,280
Froger's not a no brainer max player yet maybe he

1041
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,559
turns into one, but then you max him when he

1042
00:46:18,599 --> 00:46:21,039
turns into one, which is next summer. And so punting

1043
00:46:21,079 --> 00:46:23,920
on that flexibility and forget about the flexibility, but just

1044
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,920
punting on the idea that like you should negotiate this

1045
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:28,519
at all is bizarre to me. And by the way,

1046
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,880
if you're gonna sign him, like you should be able

1047
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,119
to get a benefit, and like having the only benefit

1048
00:46:34,199 --> 00:46:36,599
be that there's no player options, doesn't the benefit would

1049
00:46:36,639 --> 00:46:39,599
be oh, he's sub max money at that point, Like

1050
00:46:39,639 --> 00:46:41,880
he even got the all NBA language, which ye okay,

1051
00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:45,599
in theory, be happy to like include like pay that

1052
00:46:45,679 --> 00:46:47,679
if he makes All NBA and is one of the

1053
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,280
top fifteen to twenty players in the league next season.

1054
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,440
But it feels like they had the levers to say

1055
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,519
like at least like, no, that's not gonna be in there, Like,

1056
00:46:54,599 --> 00:46:57,440
you just shot under thirty percent from three. Your jumper

1057
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,719
efficiency has been all over the place for your first

1058
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:01,960
three seasons. Yeah, he does a lot of good stuff

1059
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,000
inside the arc. He's been way better defensively than people

1060
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:05,719
give him credit for. He could be a very good

1061
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,079
secondary playmaker. I think they have the ability to expand

1062
00:47:08,119 --> 00:47:11,280
that for him, But I like that is honestly their

1063
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,079
biggest This is worse than them like elected not to

1064
00:47:14,159 --> 00:47:15,920
make a swing that you and I wanted them to,

1065
00:47:16,679 --> 00:47:18,199
but to get to the cause I know that I

1066
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,480
kind of just belabored a point you already had to

1067
00:47:21,599 --> 00:47:23,960
not make a bigger swing when it comes to specifically

1068
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,320
an off the dribble shot maker, an offensive organizer. Here's

1069
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,239
why it bugs me because this is a team that

1070
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,760
would get so much better without Like we're not talking

1071
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,920
about they could do whatever they want, like go through

1072
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,199
the tiers, like if LaMelo Ball was available or they

1073
00:47:38,199 --> 00:47:39,960
have by the way, they have the assets to create

1074
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,440
their own trade market. And the KCP move, by the way,

1075
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,440
better than it even isn't a vacuum for what he

1076
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,920
does because they increase the value of Denver's twenty twenty

1077
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,000
five first round pick, which they own, so that's top

1078
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,039
five protected. So that's good. But like it didn't have

1079
00:47:54,119 --> 00:47:56,800
to be a star like LaMelo Ball in his own

1080
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,519
tier and Andfony Simon's in another tier. Fucking Malcolm Brogden

1081
00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:04,000
would help this team a ton. Signing Tias Jones would

1082
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,920
have been You probably could have given him enough money

1083
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,400
over the short term to be like hey, like, don't

1084
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,400
go to Phoenix for the minimum. So the fact that

1085
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,760
they and I'm it doesn't have to be those specific players,

1086
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,840
like I'll continue to rattle them off, like why aren't

1087
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,920
you involved in the Colin Sexton Uta would probably give

1088
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,679
him up, So they could have done that at a

1089
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,360
minimal opportunity cost, And the fact that they didn't, it's

1090
00:48:22,599 --> 00:48:25,679
just disappointing. There's no move that they made that was bad.

1091
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,920
Gary Harris at that money is fine. Goga at that

1092
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,239
money is fine. I just and unless you love the

1093
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,119
idea of Tristan de Silva at number eighteen, which you know,

1094
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,280
kind of coming in the archetypal wing, that might be

1095
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,639
able to give them some minutes, I just And even

1096
00:48:38,679 --> 00:48:40,599
if you believe that, by the way, Jet Howard's gonna

1097
00:48:40,599 --> 00:48:42,920
come in and play actual minutes this year, okay, fine,

1098
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,800
But like we just watched them lose in the playoffs

1099
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:47,960
exactly how we thought they were gonna lose by Palo

1100
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,679
bank Cao going off and them still just not having

1101
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,719
enough offensive juice around him. And I'm open to the idea,

1102
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,760
my prediction, even though I'm working on a hot takes

1103
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,719
piece and I wasn't willing to go this route because

1104
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:00,920
I just don't want to deal with the response. But

1105
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:02,559
I guess I'm when to deal with the year. John

1106
00:49:02,639 --> 00:49:04,639
Suggs I think is like has a chance to be

1107
00:49:04,679 --> 00:49:06,679
the second most important player on this team moving forward,

1108
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,400
over over Franz, and so like that makes the fraud's

1109
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,840
decision more complicated to me. Again, nothing to hate, but

1110
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:15,519
like I look at this kind off season, like, well,

1111
00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:17,320
what did they do that was above average? Like what

1112
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,639
is the above average move here, and it's it's the

1113
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,880
KCP move because it did show a willingness to like,

1114
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:24,559
all right, like this guy's older, he's not at the

1115
00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:27,039
same timeline as everybody else. So like I'll give that

1116
00:49:27,119 --> 00:49:29,199
like a because of what it does the Devers draft

1117
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:30,960
pick and the fact that they own it, Like you know,

1118
00:49:31,039 --> 00:49:33,119
I love gamesmanship, right, so that might be a B

1119
00:49:33,199 --> 00:49:33,800
plus move.

1120
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 3: So your point about the playoffs is really kind of

1121
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,119
what I was going to circle back to, because when

1122
00:49:39,119 --> 00:49:41,880
we did the regrades, I thought it was one of

1123
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,639
the interesting arguments you could make in favor of Orlando

1124
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,679
was like they were kind of inactive last summer, but

1125
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,280
that was partly built around like, we trust what we

1126
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,000
have and we think these guys will get better, and

1127
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,519
they were right about that. But then to go into

1128
00:49:54,519 --> 00:49:58,599
the playoffs and and lose for the reasons that everybody

1129
00:49:58,639 --> 00:50:00,880
saw developing over the season, and like you don't have

1130
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,760
the type of player we keep saying they needed to

1131
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:08,800
acquire the offensive organizer off the ribbleshooter or whatever like that.

1132
00:50:07,119 --> 00:50:09,599
Speaker 2: That niche is unfilled. So the defense is going to

1133
00:50:09,639 --> 00:50:10,079
be awesome.

1134
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,159
Speaker 3: You're going to overstretch your forwards to be your playmakers

1135
00:50:13,519 --> 00:50:17,239
that didn't work in the postseason. They kind of put

1136
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,679
faith in the process or organic growth again a little bit,

1137
00:50:21,079 --> 00:50:23,800
also adding KCP, but like you can't.

1138
00:50:24,039 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1139
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,119
Speaker 3: Maybe we'll be wrong again and Sugs will just get

1140
00:50:27,159 --> 00:50:30,719
that much better, or Wagner will justify that contract.

1141
00:50:31,119 --> 00:50:33,599
Speaker 2: But it just I don't know. I keep coming back

1142
00:50:33,599 --> 00:50:35,480
to disappointed. I think I think it's it was a.

1143
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,679
Speaker 3: Mistake probably to bank on the needs you have being

1144
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,880
filled by the players that are on the roster, even

1145
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,000
if they get better, I just don't they aren't going

1146
00:50:44,079 --> 00:50:46,360
to turn into different kinds of players, and they just

1147
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,320
clearly still have a need that we knew they had

1148
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,199
all last year, in all offseason, they didn't feel it.

1149
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,079
So I I know we've been hanging around the C

1150
00:50:55,199 --> 00:50:55,760
and B range.

1151
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 2: I think I need.

1152
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 3: I'm I'm thinking we're in like D plus as well.

1153
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:01,880
My gut says right now, I.

1154
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,199
Speaker 1: Was gonna be prepared to go like be minus because

1155
00:51:04,199 --> 00:51:06,320
I do think, like, don't we need to wait. The

1156
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,840
fact that we just said there's no bad deals on

1157
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,239
the books, like the Jonathan Isaac contract is probably pretty

1158
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,599
good for them. The other thing that they did do.

1159
00:51:14,079 --> 00:51:15,800
But again, if you don't trust that they're gonna do it.

1160
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,360
I totally understand, like they're so far beneath the first

1161
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,239
apron that they are, Like they can do a lot

1162
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,360
of stuff via trade without giving up a ton, And

1163
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,360
you have all these contracts that once the trade restrictions lift,

1164
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,519
you could throw Gogo Pataz and there Gary Harris's salary

1165
00:51:29,559 --> 00:51:32,320
matching Jonathan Isaac himself, Mo Wagner if you're willing to

1166
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,199
trade for Fronz's brother, and so I view that as

1167
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,519
like a value add in itself. So maybe a C

1168
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,239
minus because you're right, like they could have done more

1169
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,800
and didn't. I get The other pushback would be, was

1170
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,800
now the time to do? Like do you view the

1171
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,840
East as open enough for them to say, like, yeah,

1172
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:53,599
we like we could be the second seat, Like we

1173
00:51:53,639 --> 00:51:55,440
could beat the Knicks and the Sixers and the Calves,

1174
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,159
like forget about Boston, which is on its own tier.

1175
00:51:58,199 --> 00:52:00,280
But you have to also factor that into the equipt.

1176
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 3: No, I don't view the East as open enough. Let's say, no,

1177
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:08,079
you don't factor that to go for it. But I guess,

1178
00:52:08,199 --> 00:52:11,320
like then, so then if the argument is okay, they

1179
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,480
you know, they didn't put fronds aside we both are

1180
00:52:14,519 --> 00:52:17,199
not huge fans of that contract. They didn't it's not

1181
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,960
like they kept you know, they kept the draft pick

1182
00:52:21,079 --> 00:52:23,679
powder dry, but like they did put some money on

1183
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:25,840
the books going out a couple of years to where

1184
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:30,239
it's not you're not like equipped to have max flexibility.

1185
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:32,800
Not that free agency ever accomplishes anything anymore, by the way,

1186
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,880
that's something to talk about, Like nobody nobody signs impact guys,

1187
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,960
but you compromise a little flexibility, so you're not like,

1188
00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:42,480
I don't feel like the magic our team that's like

1189
00:52:42,519 --> 00:52:43,400
twenty twenty eight.

1190
00:52:43,519 --> 00:52:44,639
Speaker 2: We're just gunning for that.

1191
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 3: You know, it's like we want to be in the

1192
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,280
top four this year and then we want to take

1193
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,480
a step after that. I don't know if this positions

1194
00:52:50,519 --> 00:52:52,480
them to I don't know, maybe it does.

1195
00:52:52,519 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 1: I talk to you that, do you think it damages

1196
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:59,519
their position because like we can we definitely have detracted

1197
00:52:59,559 --> 00:53:03,519
because we're viewing this through the lens of the road

1198
00:53:03,599 --> 00:53:06,239
not traveled. So how much like when you look at

1199
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:08,880
the road they travel, does any of it disastrous or

1200
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,280
outright bed No, no, no, And I would argue the answer

1201
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,039
with the exception of the Franz contract being the risk

1202
00:53:14,519 --> 00:53:16,760
I would say no, and so like they're still in

1203
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:21,400
a position to get better slash make upgrades mid season. Now,

1204
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,280
if you're sitting here and you're telling me, like, well, it's

1205
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,679
clear that they're absolutely not going to do that, then

1206
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,519
I totally understand going in the D range. But they

1207
00:53:29,559 --> 00:53:32,400
did use their resources on talent retention that could be

1208
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,039
rerouted or at least like prop them up to where

1209
00:53:36,039 --> 00:53:38,480
they were to pave the way for the guys that

1210
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:39,960
are all still young to get better.

1211
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've already talked me out of the D plus.

1212
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,440
I think it's just now I'll just be repeating myself.

1213
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:50,239
I it feels unambitious, but I think you're probably right

1214
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:54,000
that if there's a bigger because like the road not

1215
00:53:54,079 --> 00:53:57,440
taken was like should have been easy, Like Tyas Jones

1216
00:53:57,559 --> 00:54:00,000
cannot have been hard to acquire he signed for the minimum.

1217
00:54:00,119 --> 00:54:02,159
Like things like that like kind of irk me a

1218
00:54:02,199 --> 00:54:05,239
little bit. But then I imagine Orlando's like we have

1219
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:06,599
Anthony Black and Jeded Howard.

1220
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:08,079
Speaker 2: One of those guys is probably.

1221
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 3: Gonna help maybe Cole Anthony plays a little better and

1222
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,239
like our guard rotations, maybe okay, so we don't need to,

1223
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:15,159
you know, fire off a bunch of money, but it's

1224
00:54:15,199 --> 00:54:17,440
like they didn't have to do anything crazy to go

1225
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,360
address the needs that they have. So I don't know,

1226
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,159
I can't get up into the B range. I think

1227
00:54:22,159 --> 00:54:24,719
we're gonna then it sounds like we're settling in some

1228
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:25,679
kind of C here.

1229
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 1: So what what is your actual like if you were

1230
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:34,800
grading the off season for them, I.

1231
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 3: I think I have to go I want to go

1232
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:41,199
C minus just because I'm ultimately underwhelmed by what they

1233
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,719
did to address the needs that they had.

1234
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 1: I think, so I think we're gonna need to settle

1235
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,320
in the sea or the C plus range because I'm

1236
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,639
I would I think I would stick with my B minus.

1237
00:54:51,159 --> 00:54:54,199
Speaker 2: Okay, let's give them, Well, what's what splits the difference? There?

1238
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:55,079
Is it just to see?

1239
00:54:56,039 --> 00:54:58,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like that would be the like I need.

1240
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 2: It's like a C point seventy five to split it exactly.

1241
00:55:02,639 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: Well, that would be saying it's an average offseason relative

1242
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,559
to the resources and opportunities at their disposal, And.

1243
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,039
Speaker 2: That's maybe that's about right.

1244
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:12,679
Speaker 1: That's probably fine. And look, by the way, if they

1245
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:14,559
wind up moving any of the guys that they signed,

1246
00:55:14,599 --> 00:55:16,800
it like if Gary Harrison go Goo's salary are part

1247
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:18,679
of a trade to get Anthony Simons. Now I might

1248
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:20,000
sit there and be like, well, why did they just

1249
00:55:20,039 --> 00:55:22,280
make this move in the off season? And then that's

1250
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,400
the thing I struggle with is the stuff they needed

1251
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:26,639
was so like, you can't tell me that the Wizards

1252
00:55:26,679 --> 00:55:29,280
wouldn't trade Malcolm Brogden. You can't tell me that the

1253
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:33,079
Blazers won't trade Anthony Simons. So they does feel like

1254
00:55:33,119 --> 00:55:36,599
an active choice to go down this current path, Yeah,

1255
00:55:36,639 --> 00:55:40,920
but not damaging many stretch. Next team Grant oh or

1256
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:42,239
was gonna.

1257
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:43,519
Speaker 2: Give them to you, that was gonna give you the

1258
00:55:43,559 --> 00:55:46,760
Washington Wizards. Is this me my turn to read? I

1259
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:47,159
think it is.

1260
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, So Brian Keith is the new full

1261
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,400
time head coach after an interim Bassis drafted Alex Sar

1262
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:56,480
at number two, traded Danny Avdia for Malcolm Brogden, the

1263
00:55:56,519 --> 00:55:59,400
pick that became bug Bub Carrington and a twenty nine

1264
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,320
first round which will be the second most favorable from Portland,

1265
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,639
Boston or Milwaukee traded Dylan Jones and Melvin Agenza for

1266
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,880
Kaishwan George Rashaun Holmes re signed two years twenty five

1267
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,199
point nine million after he declined his twelve point nine

1268
00:56:12,199 --> 00:56:15,199
million dollars player option. The second year of that is

1269
00:56:15,199 --> 00:56:18,519
only guaranteed for two hundred and fifty thousand. Jonas Valanciunas

1270
00:56:18,559 --> 00:56:20,599
three years thirty million, just one of the more head

1271
00:56:20,599 --> 00:56:23,239
scratching signings at the time and still a little bit

1272
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:27,440
that way. Sadiq Bay got three years nineteen million, Anthony

1273
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,559
gilto for four point eight Tyas Jones gone to Phoenix,

1274
00:56:30,679 --> 00:56:33,760
Landry Shammett remains a free agent, and Delon Wright gone

1275
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:35,039
to Milwaukee.

1276
00:56:35,679 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 2: What do we think about the Wizard?

1277
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 3: Still pretty clearly rebuilt, maybe based on the Abdia trade,

1278
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:42,880
aggressively rebuilding.

1279
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 1: So I just it has to be an f because

1280
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,480
sars the biggest draft bust of all time, right, Like

1281
00:56:48,519 --> 00:56:51,199
he's gonna be up there all Blondie and Anthony Bennett,

1282
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:56,840
all those guys. So that's like clearly f Midas Midas

1283
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,400
can we go. But in all actuality, the move that

1284
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,639
I focus on, because yeah, there was a choice at

1285
00:57:01,679 --> 00:57:05,199
number two and like I guess honestly reached from this

1286
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:06,679
team would have been super interesting.

1287
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,280
Speaker 3: We'll have to see, like Jordan Poole looking him off.

1288
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:11,320
I wonder how that would have.

1289
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,159
Speaker 1: Necessarily gone but like, again, we have to see this

1290
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,840
go through the season. They've taken an interesting approach to

1291
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,440
with how they plan to develop him. Just I think

1292
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:23,039
he's gonna play like minutes next to other bigs, including valanceiunis,

1293
00:57:23,679 --> 00:57:25,880
which that signing was like good value, even though it

1294
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:27,840
doesn't vibe with their direction. But if you're looking to

1295
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,679
anocuate Sar a little bit, the move that I feel

1296
00:57:30,719 --> 00:57:33,159
like is the like and correct me if you think

1297
00:57:33,159 --> 00:57:36,519
I'm wrong. That I feel like defines their offseason is

1298
00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:38,880
the Denny Avia trade, and you look at it. I

1299
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,280
think the two things that matter here is, well, how

1300
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,000
do you feel about the value they got back from him,

1301
00:57:43,039 --> 00:57:44,920
knowing that he's about to start a four year, fifty

1302
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,360
five million dollars extension that's probably gonna age into one

1303
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:51,239
of the best contracts in the NBA? Versus why do

1304
00:57:51,239 --> 00:57:53,000
you feel about bub What do you think they can

1305
00:57:53,079 --> 00:57:54,840
get from out, Like if they can get a late

1306
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,360
first for Malcolm Brogden and this becomes a lottery pick,

1307
00:57:57,639 --> 00:58:01,199
that twenty twenty nine first, and like that additional whatever pick,

1308
00:58:01,239 --> 00:58:03,920
it is like, that's pretty good. But I think you

1309
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:06,920
could also view it by saying if this was the

1310
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,519
peak of Deniavia's value, which it might have been, would

1311
00:58:09,519 --> 00:58:13,440
you've been better off with Denniafdia I lean towards I

1312
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:17,000
initially didn't like this move. Honestly, for anybody, I didn't

1313
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,760
really I didn't understand it for necessarly either side, but

1314
00:58:21,079 --> 00:58:23,239
from a wizard's perspective. And I was talking about this

1315
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,719
with Discord Legend as he must be known Matt Maderno.

1316
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,639
The fact that they accepted a twenty twenty nine first

1317
00:58:28,719 --> 00:58:31,599
round pick as a primary form of compensation, it wasn't

1318
00:58:31,599 --> 00:58:36,880
the only one. That shows a level of long term

1319
00:58:37,639 --> 00:58:40,840
game planning that I think you have to really fucking

1320
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:44,119
appreciate with this team. And maybe ted Leonsis comes in

1321
00:58:44,159 --> 00:58:46,480
and ruins the whole thing because he gets tired of waiting,

1322
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:50,159
But and even going with bub Carrington because that guy's

1323
00:58:50,199 --> 00:58:52,039
gonna get the keys to the offense at some point,

1324
00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:55,280
if not right away. That again just shows a level

1325
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,039
of commitment to the longer term. I find myself liking

1326
00:58:59,119 --> 00:59:01,719
the fact that they have continued down the path they

1327
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,880
laid last year, And I would quibble more so over like,

1328
00:59:07,079 --> 00:59:09,920
was the interview process extensive enough to where, like Brian Keith,

1329
00:59:10,039 --> 00:59:13,000
was the guy. Everything that you hear about why they

1330
00:59:13,039 --> 00:59:16,639
went with him is so anecdotal and not evidence based

1331
00:59:16,719 --> 00:59:19,840
in the slightest that that's something to wonder about. I

1332
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,039
just I don't know that this was a home run

1333
00:59:22,039 --> 00:59:24,199
off season, but it was an off season I think

1334
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:28,400
reinforced me feeling semi confident in their direction.

1335
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 3: I agree with that, And the Avdia trade really kind

1336
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,079
of confounded me for all the same reason. He's twenty three, Like,

1337
00:59:35,199 --> 00:59:37,679
isn't that young enough? And he's on a great contract.

1338
00:59:37,719 --> 00:59:40,519
Isn't that like can't that be part of a rebuild?

1339
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,599
Maybe not if you're looking as far ahead as twenty

1340
00:59:43,599 --> 00:59:44,880
twenty nine, like maybe not.

1341
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:49,039
Speaker 2: So I was confused, And then kind of I.

1342
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 3: Think I just didn't like it for Washington at first,

1343
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,199
because it's like, well, what's Bob Carrington going to be?

1344
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 2: Like maybe something, maybe not.

1345
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,599
Speaker 3: Maybe you get a first for Brogden, maybe not, but

1346
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,800
that twenty nine first just looking a so you're getting

1347
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:03,559
the second most favorable out of Portland, Boston and Milwaukee,

1348
01:00:03,599 --> 01:00:06,360
which means, like, I mean, the odds of a couple

1349
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:09,079
of those teams being bad or you know, at least

1350
01:00:09,119 --> 01:00:11,920
certainly worse than like Boston and Milwaukee are right now

1351
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:16,559
in five years is pretty good. And just to your point,

1352
01:00:16,719 --> 01:00:21,159
the willingness to look that far out, I think is encouraging,

1353
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:24,800
particularly for a team that has just had like nothing

1354
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:28,360
beyond the next six months exists for like way too long.

1355
01:00:28,519 --> 01:00:31,559
Speaker 2: Like that that I think is refreshing and is a

1356
01:00:31,599 --> 01:00:32,360
positive sign.

1357
01:00:33,119 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 3: The last thing I would say that like about the

1358
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:39,039
star pick, and I caught some flak for this, I

1359
01:00:39,079 --> 01:00:43,519
think was just if you're gonna criticize a draft selection,

1360
01:00:44,239 --> 01:00:47,840
I think this is the one because Reed Shepherd went

1361
01:00:48,119 --> 01:00:51,519
right after. And I think Reed Shepherd certainly right now

1362
01:00:51,639 --> 01:00:55,719
is a better player and might just be that way indefinitely.

1363
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,199
And it's not like you had Trey Young like Atlanta did.

1364
01:00:59,199 --> 01:01:00,920
The Hawks have a little bit of cover for not

1365
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:05,280
taking a guard. Washington just doesn't get that same luxury

1366
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:08,039
like and if read Shepherd's the best player there, you

1367
01:01:08,079 --> 01:01:11,320
probably need to take him. Maybe Sar will be make

1368
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,480
five All Star Games and who knows, but like, I

1369
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,440
just think Shephard was the guy there. Certain I don't

1370
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:18,840
know if I would have said that on draft night

1371
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,199
to be fair, but like, based on what we know now,

1372
01:01:21,599 --> 01:01:24,519
that's kind of where I'm at. So if it's if

1373
01:01:24,519 --> 01:01:27,559
we're allowed to grade with knowledge we've gained since the draft,

1374
01:01:27,599 --> 01:01:30,400
I think that's it looks like a miss today.

1375
01:01:31,119 --> 01:01:33,199
Speaker 1: Shepherd was higher on I think both of our like

1376
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,159
unofficial big board than Sar in the moment, and so

1377
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:39,119
this feels like more so than Atlanta, who has Tree Young,

1378
01:01:39,559 --> 01:01:42,159
Shepherd should have been the pick to me, But we

1379
01:01:42,239 --> 01:01:45,440
have to be open minded about Shar. I'm very curious

1380
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:47,360
to how they use him next year because giving him

1381
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,519
the agency that he had in Summer League is clearly

1382
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,920
not it. And so I don't again this draft specifically,

1383
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:56,320
I don't know how to view that. But the one

1384
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,679
thing I do like about their draft, and I was

1385
01:01:58,719 --> 01:02:01,000
almost like, because the Knicks in the position to keep

1386
01:02:01,079 --> 01:02:04,400
Keishawn George and I really like him, I think that

1387
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,639
that ends up being like really fantastic value for them,

1388
01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:10,280
and I love the archetype of player. We'll have to

1389
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,639
see if some of his physical physical tools excuse me,

1390
01:02:12,719 --> 01:02:16,159
can hold up against NBA level talent really at both

1391
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,519
ends of the floor. But I love that pick for them,

1392
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,079
and so like I kind of almost view this as

1393
01:02:22,079 --> 01:02:24,719
a like is it in a I don't know if

1394
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,960
is it an above like it's an above average offseason

1395
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,639
I think in terms of process, oh yeah, but like

1396
01:02:30,719 --> 01:02:34,000
in terms of what they actually did, I don't know,

1397
01:02:34,039 --> 01:02:36,320
like how far above average you could go, if at all.

1398
01:02:36,679 --> 01:02:38,800
So and by the way, I'm not I don't care

1399
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,159
that they didn't move Kyle Kuzma as an example, or

1400
01:02:41,159 --> 01:02:43,880
Malcolm Brogden. Yet those things will either happen or they won't.

1401
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:45,239
I'll tell you what's not gonna happen.

1402
01:02:45,559 --> 01:02:47,679
Speaker 3: Neither one of those dudes is gonna prevent them from

1403
01:02:47,679 --> 01:02:50,920
having top four lottery odds. No, And I think I

1404
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,159
think in both. So the Brogden thing is what I

1405
01:02:53,199 --> 01:02:56,679
was gonna say. There's quite a bit here that, like,

1406
01:02:57,679 --> 01:03:00,679
h it's hard to grade this team because so much

1407
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:04,119
depends on what they might ultimately get for Brogden, what

1408
01:03:04,199 --> 01:03:08,159
they would use Rashaun Holmes's salary for what they might

1409
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,679
or might not get for valentunis like in theory, like

1410
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,920
you could turn that into stuff that makes a lot

1411
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,079
of sense on a team that's got a long time

1412
01:03:16,119 --> 01:03:19,559
horizon for this rebuild. But you we don't know, like

1413
01:03:19,719 --> 01:03:22,400
that's speculative. We're not sure what the returns will be

1414
01:03:22,519 --> 01:03:24,679
for those guys or if they can even trade all

1415
01:03:24,719 --> 01:03:27,400
of them, Like you just assume, you assume that's the plan.

1416
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:29,480
But it's just like there's a little bit of an

1417
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,480
incomplete here. We're not gonna cop out and give them

1418
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:33,480
an incomplete, but like you know what I mean, there's

1419
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:35,880
there's a lot of this that could swing depending on

1420
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:39,239
what they ultimately get back for, Like even like Kuzma,

1421
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,880
if you're gonna potentially ding them, which I'm not for

1422
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:45,280
not moving on from him, like because you're still like

1423
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:49,159
he's still an asset you can trade for something any.

1424
01:03:49,039 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: Other thing too, is the creative because you mentioned Holmes.

1425
01:03:52,119 --> 01:03:53,639
We don't know if they're gonna do anything with that,

1426
01:03:53,679 --> 01:03:56,639
but they're clearly open to like, oh, we're gonna use

1427
01:03:56,679 --> 01:03:58,559
this money to take on more money or do something

1428
01:03:58,639 --> 01:04:01,519
on the trade market, because otherwise, why would you restructure

1429
01:04:01,519 --> 01:04:05,519
this deal to have that partially guaranteed year in the

1430
01:04:05,519 --> 01:04:07,639
second season. You would just let him be the expiring

1431
01:04:07,679 --> 01:04:10,119
contract that he was gonna be, like because he would

1432
01:04:10,119 --> 01:04:12,920
have exercised his player option without the possibility of, Oh, like,

1433
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:14,239
I might be able to get a shit ton of

1434
01:04:14,239 --> 01:04:16,599
more money if they need to guarantee five million is

1435
01:04:16,639 --> 01:04:17,719
part of a trade later on.

1436
01:04:18,559 --> 01:04:22,719
Speaker 3: I'm I'm ultimately kind of enamored with the process that

1437
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:26,840
you mentioned here. It's like, you know, this is a teardown,

1438
01:04:27,039 --> 01:04:29,360
like the and and the pieces that are not just

1439
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:31,880
down to the studs are gonna be moved. That's the

1440
01:04:32,039 --> 01:04:35,760
early sets the plan and so again because it's the Wizards,

1441
01:04:36,199 --> 01:04:38,440
I just I love it, and I'm I'm inclined to

1442
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,639
go like, I don't think even not being sure about

1443
01:04:41,639 --> 01:04:44,440
Tsar and thinking that's probably a miss as we look

1444
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:47,360
at it today, this this to me is like just

1445
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:51,000
the ambition of trading Ovdia for like, which is so

1446
01:04:51,079 --> 01:04:54,960
wild at this stage, feels I'm I go like minimum B.

1447
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:57,159
Speaker 2: I could be talked into going higher.

1448
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:01,159
Speaker 1: I would probably wind up at a BE too. I'm trying

1449
01:05:01,159 --> 01:05:02,760
to think, like, does this need to be a B

1450
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:08,199
plus relative to their situation, because it's just like, because

1451
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:09,800
if it's a BE, this feels like one of the

1452
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:11,760
grades where if we went to regrade, we'd go back

1453
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:13,719
and it's either gonna be way higher or way lower

1454
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:16,320
because alex Sar will swing it in one direction or

1455
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:21,639
the other. And I'm just unless you feel strongly that like, like, oh,

1456
01:05:21,679 --> 01:05:24,880
Alexar is definitely gonna be way worse than Red Shepherd,

1457
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,119
and I'm just like, we don't have the exposure to

1458
01:05:27,119 --> 01:05:29,360
this guy to say that, I think they probably deserve

1459
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,920
a B plus. And it's it's all about the process.

1460
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:33,880
They're they're kind of it's a bunch of stab in

1461
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:37,119
the dark stuff. But I don't I'm saying this over again.

1462
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,360
It just reinforces that this franchise, or at least the

1463
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:43,440
front offices of right now, is focused on building something

1464
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,760
sustainable over the long term. And that's a again, relative

1465
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:48,920
to this specific situation. That's not just a that's not

1466
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,519
just a refreshing way of thinking. That's like a borderline

1467
01:05:51,599 --> 01:05:52,920
unprecedented way of thinking.

1468
01:05:53,119 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I think it'd be I'm good with a

1469
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,199
B plus because it's like you could even frame the

1470
01:05:58,239 --> 01:06:02,519
star pick as like this is an upside play, which

1471
01:06:02,599 --> 01:06:04,800
like I don't know Shepherd, if Shepherd can really create

1472
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,159
his own shots, and that for others, that's the most

1473
01:06:07,239 --> 01:06:10,079
valuable skill in the league. But like maybe you're thinking,

1474
01:06:10,119 --> 01:06:12,119
like I don't know, wouldn't it be cool to have

1475
01:06:12,199 --> 01:06:15,079
a potential stretch five with ball skills that could but

1476
01:06:15,199 --> 01:06:17,199
you know, maybe anchor our defense in a couple of

1477
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:18,800
years that's like the.

1478
01:06:19,079 --> 01:06:21,639
Speaker 1: Like if Sharon Jackson Junior and Nick Friston had a

1479
01:06:21,679 --> 01:06:23,280
baby and that's Alex har and that's like, that's a

1480
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:24,039
pretty good player.

1481
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,679
Speaker 3: That's that's the risky like upside play that maybe you

1482
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,360
maybe you take at the and maybe a team like

1483
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:30,800
the Wizards.

1484
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:33,159
Speaker 2: We keep saying like should be doing that. So I

1485
01:06:33,199 --> 01:06:34,119
think if.

1486
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:37,199
Speaker 1: We're by the way of anything, alexr is going to

1487
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:39,960
only increase their potential draft lottery odds.

1488
01:06:40,039 --> 01:06:43,599
Speaker 3: Sure he will not produce like Shephard this year.

1489
01:06:43,639 --> 01:06:44,519
Speaker 2: I feel confident in that.

1490
01:06:44,599 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: I think, well, actually, that's another interesting element to this.

1491
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,119
It's it's more a regreade thing. But like, I don't

1492
01:06:49,159 --> 01:06:51,519
know what Shepherd's opportunity is going to be. Like in Houston,

1493
01:06:51,559 --> 01:06:53,599
they've got like ninety guys that need to play, and

1494
01:06:53,639 --> 01:06:56,360
so we might look not we'll factor that in, of course,

1495
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:59,280
but like Sorrow, he will probably have more. My guess

1496
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:01,960
would be we will have more information on Sar as

1497
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,639
a player than Shephard come this time next year.

1498
01:07:05,039 --> 01:07:07,719
Speaker 3: I mean, we better hope so, because Sar certainly needs

1499
01:07:07,719 --> 01:07:09,719
to be playing a lot. I think if we're gonna

1500
01:07:10,079 --> 01:07:11,960
we you know, I said at the outset, like we

1501
01:07:12,039 --> 01:07:14,400
have to view these grades in the context of like

1502
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:16,639
what is the team trying to do? And you could

1503
01:07:16,679 --> 01:07:19,599
frame all like every single thing the Wizards did as like, yes,

1504
01:07:19,679 --> 01:07:22,760
that is in keeping with let's strip this thing down

1505
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:24,800
and try to get good several years from now. So

1506
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:27,239
like I do wonder did you need to guarantee Sadek

1507
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:29,199
Bay like nineteen million?

1508
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 1: I just I think the like, why are we three

1509
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:33,000
years out instead of two?

1510
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:35,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know that's this, that's just another deal.

1511
01:07:35,599 --> 01:07:37,639
That's like, well, if he gets healthy, then that's a

1512
01:07:37,679 --> 01:07:38,400
three and D wing.

1513
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:39,679
Speaker 2: I guess that we can trade that.

1514
01:07:39,639 --> 01:07:42,679
Speaker 3: We minus the D for the minor party perceived as

1515
01:07:42,679 --> 01:07:45,000
a three and D wing, I think maybe wrongly.

1516
01:07:45,199 --> 01:07:47,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, B plus is good. I think a B plus

1517
01:07:47,119 --> 01:07:47,400
is good.

1518
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:51,079
Speaker 1: Here we are on to a new division, which means

1519
01:07:51,079 --> 01:07:53,639
we're up to your Boston. Well, they're my Boston Celtics.

1520
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:54,800
I'll take this man.

1521
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:57,519
Speaker 2: You well, I gave you the Wizard, so you have

1522
01:07:57,599 --> 01:07:58,800
to you get the Celtics too.

1523
01:07:59,119 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 1: Do you think I'll do a better job of grading

1524
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:02,519
them this year? Last year?

1525
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:03,119
Speaker 2: Hard?

1526
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 1: Go ahead?

1527
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:07,159
Speaker 2: Were you say I was gonna say? Hard to do worse?

1528
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 1: Drafted Baylor Shireman at number thirty, drafted Anton Watson at

1529
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:14,719
number fifty four, currently on an Exhibit ten deal. They

1530
01:08:14,719 --> 01:08:17,560
resigned Luke Curnett one year for the minimum, resigned Xavier

1531
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:21,279
Tillman two year minimum fully guaranteed. Resign name as Cada

1532
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:23,880
three year, seven point two million only the first seasons

1533
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,560
fully guaranteed. Now we're getting into the big stuff. Grant

1534
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,199
Derek White four year, one twenty five point eight million

1535
01:08:29,239 --> 01:08:32,199
dollar extension one hundred and eighteen million is guaranteed. He's

1536
01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:36,159
now signed through twenty eight twenty nine. Jason Tatum signed

1537
01:08:36,159 --> 01:08:38,680
the Supermax five years close to three hundred and fifteen

1538
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:40,640
million that will kick in at the start of the

1539
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:42,920
twenty five to twenty six season. He has a twenty

1540
01:08:43,039 --> 01:08:46,079
nine to thirty player option that'll be his age nineteen

1541
01:08:46,159 --> 01:08:49,640
season when that player options up. Incredible UH Sam Hauser

1542
01:08:50,039 --> 01:08:53,600
four years and forty five million dollar extension fully guaranteed.

1543
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:56,520
He's now signed through twenty twenty eight twenty twenty nine.

1544
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:00,520
Notable things here oshae Bersett currently on sign and also

1545
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:03,560
the Drew Holliday extension not factored in here because that

1546
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:08,359
happened towards the end of the regular season. UH Grant

1547
01:09:09,079 --> 01:09:11,960
is there anything that like about this? Obviously that caught

1548
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:14,439
you off guard. I guess the Sam Hauser extension because

1549
01:09:14,479 --> 01:09:16,920
of the team second apron situation.

1550
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:18,079
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, a little bit.

1551
01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:21,119
Speaker 3: But U so you may have to talk me down

1552
01:09:21,319 --> 01:09:24,199
because so, oh boy, I'll start I'll start with this.

1553
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:27,039
This feels like a c because it's like, yeah, of

1554
01:09:27,079 --> 01:09:29,560
course you extend Derek White and a double. Of course

1555
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:33,079
you you give Jason Tatum all the money. The Houser

1556
01:09:33,159 --> 01:09:34,920
thing is like, I don't know, you see a lot

1557
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:38,359
of teams Denver like not do stuff like this, right

1558
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:40,600
that are that are in the Celtics position. Now, the

1559
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:42,720
Celtics won the whole thing, so it's a little different.

1560
01:09:43,079 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 1: But the Nuggets didn't recently do that, right, so they

1561
01:09:46,039 --> 01:09:47,039
should be cost cutting.

1562
01:09:47,079 --> 01:09:47,399
Speaker 2: That's right.

1563
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:49,640
Speaker 3: You can see where I'm going, right, It seems like

1564
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:52,239
this is all these are all easy decisions, like, well,

1565
01:09:52,279 --> 01:09:53,800
what else were they going to do? Like, yeah, you

1566
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:57,039
bring back three centers, you know, two at the minimum,

1567
01:09:57,279 --> 01:09:59,600
one for you know, a non guarantee on the on

1568
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:02,680
the which you do, by the way, because Christops is

1569
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,039
going to be out probably until twenty twenty five and

1570
01:10:05,159 --> 01:10:09,920
al Horford is ninety right, so it seems easy, but

1571
01:10:10,159 --> 01:10:13,399
not every team does this, and in fact, some teams

1572
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:18,039
like actively avoid doing this and make themselves worse. So

1573
01:10:18,239 --> 01:10:22,159
I guess maybe the question is should we really be

1574
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:26,800
like giving the Celtics high marks because they're they are

1575
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:30,880
in a position where they're great, and they did everything

1576
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,840
they needed to do to stay great, and not everybody

1577
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:37,079
that is at this level operates that way. Like teams

1578
01:10:37,119 --> 01:10:38,840
like the Sons are trying to get there and they're

1579
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:42,359
doing kind of similar stuff minus extensions. They're just trading

1580
01:10:42,399 --> 01:10:46,159
for everybody. The Nuggets are the obvious foil, and like

1581
01:10:46,279 --> 01:10:48,279
look at the Clippers, look at the Warriors, Like these

1582
01:10:48,279 --> 01:10:50,479
are teams that neither of them are as good as Boston,

1583
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:52,920
but they were pretty close to as expensive. They went

1584
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:55,760
the other way. So it's kind of rhetorical because you

1585
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:57,199
can see where I'm going, But like I wonder if

1586
01:10:57,239 --> 01:10:58,680
we need to start looking at a team like this

1587
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:02,119
and say, like, man, like you guys, this is not easy,

1588
01:11:02,199 --> 01:11:02,960
this is expensive.

1589
01:11:03,039 --> 01:11:05,279
Speaker 2: Not everyone's doing it, but you did all the stuff

1590
01:11:05,319 --> 01:11:07,520
you had to to stay where you want to stay

1591
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:08,880
and try to win more titles.

1592
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:11,600
Speaker 1: I think that's the exact way you have to look

1593
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:16,479
at it. Because given their financial situation, Jason Tatum's extension

1594
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:19,079
was the only no brainer one that they gave out, Like, yeah,

1595
01:11:19,119 --> 01:11:21,479
Derek White in a vacuum suore, but to this team

1596
01:11:22,199 --> 01:11:24,159
when you know the money that's coming on your books,

1597
01:11:25,159 --> 01:11:27,279
like even with Christoph's coming off the books in a year,

1598
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:30,520
even with Al Horford coming off the books after next season, like,

1599
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:32,800
it's just going to be tough. And so now you

1600
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:35,239
gave these long term deals to White and Houser, and yeah,

1601
01:11:35,279 --> 01:11:38,920
we probably will eventually see them make a financially motivated pivot,

1602
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:41,239
but it does see I would frame it this way,

1603
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,199
It does seem like they're willing to pay through the

1604
01:11:44,319 --> 01:11:47,439
teeth to keep this exact core together for at least

1605
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:50,680
another two seasons. M That is, we couldn't say that

1606
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:53,039
about the Denver Nuggets after they won the title, like

1607
01:11:53,159 --> 01:11:55,520
that's they're on that same timeline and they let KCP go,

1608
01:11:56,079 --> 01:11:58,520
so and yeah, they didn't have the same Boston doesn't

1609
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:00,399
have the same level of young players in the hypeline

1610
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:02,359
that Denver does, so you could view it as well,

1611
01:12:02,399 --> 01:12:04,479
they were kind of out of options. But like I

1612
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:06,720
would view Sam Hauser's extension as kind of just the

1613
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:09,359
ultimate like no, like we're serious about this, because that's

1614
01:12:09,399 --> 01:12:11,840
the one you point to and say, one, maybe you

1615
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:14,119
could fight over the value relative to how many minutes

1616
01:12:14,119 --> 01:12:16,520
he's gonna play for them, And they also could have

1617
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:18,800
played like Denver would have absolutely played this card, been

1618
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:21,359
like we have Sam Hauser as a rookie and Baylor

1619
01:12:21,439 --> 01:12:23,720
shireman basically and like we're going to take that cost,

1620
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:27,119
control the asset and emphasize him moving forward. So I

1621
01:12:27,239 --> 01:12:28,800
do think that we need to view it the way

1622
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:31,119
that you were kind of outlining there that this was

1623
01:12:31,159 --> 01:12:33,640
a home run off season because they we knew they

1624
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:36,119
weren't gonna tear anything down, but they didn't do anything

1625
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:41,000
that suggested that they would make these wholesale moves in

1626
01:12:41,119 --> 01:12:43,520
the semi like in the near term. And not only

1627
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:47,359
did they, like they actively made decisions that even if

1628
01:12:47,359 --> 01:12:49,600
they end up making a move, it's not gonna be

1629
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:52,760
so dramatic that they're going to have pivoted entirely out

1630
01:12:53,239 --> 01:12:54,119
of this nucleus.

1631
01:12:54,319 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 3: And just like, what's the last defending champion to not

1632
01:12:58,039 --> 01:13:02,319
lose anybody that matters like at all? Like I mean Denver,

1633
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:05,119
Bruce Brown gone, and now CACP gone, And like I'm

1634
01:13:05,159 --> 01:13:08,159
trying to think like all those Warriors teams were always shuffling,

1635
01:13:09,119 --> 01:13:12,159
like you know, their seventh eighth guys, and then the

1636
01:13:13,079 --> 01:13:15,840
Bucks would always lose. I'm trying, you know, they're always

1637
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:17,680
like pulling off a couple parts.

1638
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,600
Speaker 2: It's just like this is super rare. Like the Lakers,

1639
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:22,439
what is that that bubble title team?

1640
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:24,720
Speaker 3: Is like, there's nobody left from that team and they lost,

1641
01:13:25,079 --> 01:13:27,119
didn't they wasn't that the year they lost Caruso the

1642
01:13:27,199 --> 01:13:30,159
next season or like casep was gone, and it's like,

1643
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:31,319
what are we So.

1644
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:34,159
Speaker 2: The rarity of this, I think warrants and a. That's

1645
01:13:34,279 --> 01:13:35,800
that's where I'll just I'll just leave it.

1646
01:13:36,319 --> 01:13:38,119
Speaker 1: I don't think you can give it an a plus

1647
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:42,920
just because it's like it was all retention basically, like

1648
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:44,880
you'd have to make like Baylor Seanman's gonna end up

1649
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:46,960
being like one of their seven best players next year,

1650
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:51,319
and if that happens, there's a plus. But that's just nothing.

1651
01:13:51,399 --> 01:13:53,439
They honestly, the only thing they did that surprise me

1652
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:56,720
was sam Hauser extension, and that it makes a world

1653
01:13:56,760 --> 01:14:00,119
of difference because it's just like it's Sam Hauser. You

1654
01:14:00,119 --> 01:14:02,079
don't like that's a that's a contract, you can move,

1655
01:14:02,159 --> 01:14:04,640
but you can't like you've now could they I'm just

1656
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:07,479
rephrasing it again. You put yourself in a situation to

1657
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:11,439
where it's not just that you avoided structuring your books

1658
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:13,840
to make these bold moves or these tear downs, you

1659
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:16,399
actively made moves that are gonna prohibit that from happening

1660
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:17,399
within the next two years.

1661
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:17,920
Speaker 2: Right.

1662
01:14:18,199 --> 01:14:21,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that was a that was our quickest team.

1663
01:14:21,079 --> 01:14:22,199
But yeah, I think that's a no brainer.

1664
01:14:22,239 --> 01:14:22,399
Speaker 2: Eh.

1665
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:24,239
Speaker 3: I didn't know that I was going to go that

1666
01:14:24,279 --> 01:14:25,920
way coming in, but just as we went through it,

1667
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:29,079
it's like, if we're we gotta all we do is

1668
01:14:29,399 --> 01:14:32,359
is like complain when teams don't spend, and when teams spend,

1669
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:35,239
we gotta hand it to them. So I think especially

1670
01:14:35,279 --> 01:14:39,640
one this good. So Brooklyn Nets Dan, Uh, they're everybody.

1671
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:41,479
Speaker 1: I'm going to point out you you can't do it now.

1672
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:43,319
You missed your opportunity to assign me a team.

1673
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:45,239
Speaker 2: I No, I don't. I wouldn't do that to you.

1674
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:47,960
They they're we're all sharing the Brooklyn Nets.

1675
01:14:48,039 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 1: There they are. They are America's team net.

1676
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:54,800
Speaker 2: Brooklyn Nets twenty four five get in on in America.

1677
01:14:55,399 --> 01:14:59,319
Speaker 3: Uh, these nets traded Michel bridges Ke debates, you up

1678
01:15:00,039 --> 01:15:03,199
Juan Valet, whose name I have never seen before today,

1679
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:06,479
and a twenty six second rounder to the Knicks. Four boy,

1680
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:10,800
I'm Bogdanov. It's shake Milton Mamma de diakite, New York's

1681
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:14,359
twenty five first, twenty five second, Milwaukee's twenty five first

1682
01:15:14,399 --> 01:15:17,319
with top four protection, New York's twenty seven first unprotected,

1683
01:15:17,359 --> 01:15:20,319
twenty eight first round swap, and twenty nine first unprotected

1684
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:27,119
as a first and twenty three Oh jeez, we'll just.

1685
01:15:27,159 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 2: Throw it in there. Relatedly, basically gave up.

1686
01:15:32,199 --> 01:15:33,640
Speaker 3: I guess we can just go through it, but kind

1687
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:37,000
of traded four first round assets for two uh sending

1688
01:15:37,039 --> 01:15:40,560
a bunch of suns picks uh to the Rockets to

1689
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:44,199
get back their own twenty five and twenty six. I'm

1690
01:15:44,239 --> 01:15:46,399
just vamping because I can't read all this together, but

1691
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:49,159
that's the gist of it right. Essentially sent four first

1692
01:15:49,399 --> 01:15:54,000
round assets to Houston via Phoenix for their twenty five

1693
01:15:54,039 --> 01:15:55,800
and twenty six picks back, which means they can tank

1694
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:57,800
now and have a payout from it.

1695
01:15:58,720 --> 01:15:59,119
Speaker 2: What else?

1696
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,680
Speaker 3: God's Williams took a flyer on him from the Grizzlies.

1697
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:05,359
Nick Claxton got four years, one hundred million, ninety six

1698
01:16:05,399 --> 01:16:08,039
of which is guaranteed. Trendon Woffer signed the qualifying offer.

1699
01:16:08,119 --> 01:16:11,479
Keon Johnson got the two year minimum. As I scrolled

1700
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:14,760
down here obvious questions, what are we gonna do with

1701
01:16:15,079 --> 01:16:18,279
like Cam Johnson, with Dorian Finney Smith? Is Cam Thomas

1702
01:16:18,319 --> 01:16:20,960
going to get an extension? Lonnie Walker and Dennismith Junior

1703
01:16:21,079 --> 01:16:23,279
two of our favorite or maybe mine, but probably both

1704
01:16:23,319 --> 01:16:26,479
of our favorite minimum signings last year currently still free agents.

1705
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:30,399
So Dan a lot of fun to follow Boston with

1706
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:33,880
Brooklyn because it's a very quite a bit of contrast here.

1707
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 2: What do we think about the Nets off season? I

1708
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:39,239
kind of love it, but I'm curious what you think.

1709
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 1: I think it might be an a plus, I think

1710
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:44,159
the only thing. And actually I was surprised at how

1711
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:48,119
contentious this became. I was talking with Salmon Ali for

1712
01:16:48,159 --> 01:16:49,800
the Rockets look Ahead, and I posted a clip of

1713
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:53,279
our conversation about basically whether Brooklyn would have made the

1714
01:16:53,359 --> 01:16:56,520
mcal Bridges trade without getting its own picks back. And

1715
01:16:57,439 --> 01:16:59,920
I said that the Knicks offered so much that I

1716
01:17:00,159 --> 01:17:02,239
believe even though I framed it as like getting your

1717
01:17:02,279 --> 01:17:04,960
own picks back was the driving force. I think they

1718
01:17:05,039 --> 01:17:07,680
gave up so much stuff to get their picks back

1719
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:10,279
because they knew how much shit they were getting from

1720
01:17:10,359 --> 01:17:13,520
New York. And I ultimately think that, let's say they

1721
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,319
don't make the mchal Bridges trade, are you prepared to

1722
01:17:16,399 --> 01:17:19,479
say that this team wouldn't have been like a bottom

1723
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:22,479
four team in the league anyway? Maybe, but like they

1724
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:24,640
still would have been like one of the six or

1725
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:27,239
seven worst teams in the league, And like you would

1726
01:17:27,279 --> 01:17:29,640
have probably moved Downyan Finney Smith at minimum anyway, because

1727
01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:32,800
he's coming up on that player option. And so I

1728
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:35,119
think you need to look at it that, like, I'm

1729
01:17:35,159 --> 01:17:36,960
just curious as to you this maybe not might not

1730
01:17:37,039 --> 01:17:38,479
be too related to their great but I think like

1731
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:41,439
everything they did, they gave up probably too much to

1732
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:44,079
get their own picks back in a vacuum, but it

1733
01:17:44,199 --> 01:17:47,640
bought them the ability to actually rebuild for the next

1734
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:50,439
two years without having to worry about sending out a

1735
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:53,600
top tier draft asset, which then prevents you from doing

1736
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:57,239
something that would short circuit your long term future. Now,

1737
01:17:57,319 --> 01:17:59,520
were they backed into that corner because like any of

1738
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:02,760
the star pursued people listed kind of faded. Donovan Mitchell

1739
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:04,920
was the big one and he signs an extension with Cleveland,

1740
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:07,000
and it was it was clearly headed that way. Even

1741
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,159
before the season was over. The reporting was that he

1742
01:18:09,279 --> 01:18:11,880
was probably gonna sign that extension. So I like, maybe

1743
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:13,800
you'd take away from the level of difficulty on it.

1744
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:15,680
And with the mcale bridges trade, it's like, well, duh,

1745
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:18,640
you take that offer? How much of that did you negotiate? Though?

1746
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:20,840
So I'm just I want to I think this would

1747
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:22,479
actually be the mark of their grade. Though. If you

1748
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:26,800
tell me that the McHale Bridges trade was good enough

1749
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:29,600
for them to make independent of the trade that they

1750
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:32,359
made with Houston, this has to be an a plus offseason.

1751
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:34,760
And so I'll ask you this, would you have made

1752
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:37,439
that trade as Brooklyn without getting your own picks back?

1753
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,359
Speaker 2: I think you have to. I think that offer was

1754
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:41,039
just so good.

1755
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:44,399
Speaker 3: Now now like we we could, we would still have

1756
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:46,720
to be have to discuss it, and what we would

1757
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:49,479
say is, well, what's the real upside here?

1758
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:52,920
Speaker 2: Because they're they're gonna be bad and they're not.

1759
01:18:53,119 --> 01:18:55,520
Speaker 3: The ultimate payout is like you get the first pick

1760
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:57,720
in the draft because you have one of the four

1761
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:00,399
worst records and you win the lottery, like we would

1762
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:03,439
have to discuss, Like, I mean, there's some doubt, you know,

1763
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:05,840
it's there's not as much upside as there might otherwise

1764
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:08,039
be if you'd only done the next thing. But they

1765
01:19:08,119 --> 01:19:10,800
got a premium for Bridges from the Knicks. Like, that's

1766
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:13,680
a huge haul for a player we like bridges. That's

1767
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:14,760
a huge hall for Bridges.

1768
01:19:15,159 --> 01:19:18,239
Speaker 1: It's a non They traded a non star, he's never

1769
01:19:18,319 --> 01:19:20,359
made an all star team for five first round picks

1770
01:19:20,399 --> 01:19:23,520
and one one first round swap put second round equity.

1771
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:26,399
Speaker 2: Like that is, yeah, you just do crazy. You just

1772
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:26,760
do that.

1773
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:30,479
Speaker 3: But so like and I agree, like I've always I

1774
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:32,319
keep framing it, and I said it when I was

1775
01:19:32,399 --> 01:19:34,760
running through these, like you gave up four first round

1776
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:37,680
assets for two, So like you're paying a premium to

1777
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:39,720
get your own picks back. But what you are buying

1778
01:19:40,319 --> 01:19:45,359
is like just a totally clear direction and like a

1779
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:48,760
totally clear purpose because now you've got all this shit

1780
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:52,720
from the Knicks, you like you're gonna be bad and

1781
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:55,680
now there's a payoff which you just wouldn't have had otherwise.

1782
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:58,560
Speaker 2: So like you get a premium, you pay a premium.

1783
01:19:59,119 --> 01:20:02,039
Speaker 3: Somehow that nets out still to like a massive positive

1784
01:20:02,119 --> 01:20:05,439
because just it simplifies everything and clarifies everything if it

1785
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:07,960
removes any doubt about what you're gonna do with Finney

1786
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:11,119
Smith and Cam Johnson and what anybody else. I just

1787
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:15,279
I think I think your your initial question if you say, yes,

1788
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:18,279
you do that NIXT trade no matter what, and then

1789
01:20:18,359 --> 01:20:21,520
you you pile on top of that with with getting

1790
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:23,640
control of your own picks back for the next two years. Like,

1791
01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:27,239
I don't know how you frame it as anything but

1792
01:20:27,359 --> 01:20:30,640
an a plus if we're gonna fetishize the rebuild, which

1793
01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:34,119
we do and everybody does, like this is an a plus. First,

1794
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:37,399
you know, two steps in a rebuild, right, And so

1795
01:20:38,159 --> 01:20:38,720
to harp.

1796
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:40,319
Speaker 1: On that point about why they would have made the

1797
01:20:40,399 --> 01:20:44,239
move anyway optically is the only thing that matters when

1798
01:20:44,279 --> 01:20:46,479
you're sending out like that first round pick off, it's

1799
01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:49,560
already gone. It's in Houston, And so I guess if

1800
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:51,199
you were to look at it, did Houston really offer

1801
01:20:51,319 --> 01:20:53,840
all the NETS's first round picks back to get mchel

1802
01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:56,079
Bridges himself and they like to not to make that trade.

1803
01:20:56,399 --> 01:20:58,199
That's a more interesting discussion where if you could have

1804
01:20:58,239 --> 01:21:00,399
gotten the same, if you could have got all your

1805
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:03,000
picks back from Houston. I think you might almost still

1806
01:21:03,079 --> 01:21:05,279
prefer this path because of all that extra stuff from

1807
01:21:05,279 --> 01:21:07,479
the Knicks, who yes, they're a better franchise. I want

1808
01:21:07,479 --> 01:21:10,119
to make it clear, twenty nine and two and thirty

1809
01:21:10,159 --> 01:21:12,520
one or twenty twenty eight is very far away in

1810
01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:17,079
today's NBA. So just like that, like that pick is all.

1811
01:21:17,199 --> 01:21:19,359
But I'm looking at this forget the Nets getting their

1812
01:21:19,399 --> 01:21:21,800
own pickpack. Those picks are gone. What's the difference of

1813
01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:24,960
if you send the third pick versus the fourth, like

1814
01:21:25,039 --> 01:21:27,800
the tenth pick. What's the difference for you as a franchise?

1815
01:21:28,279 --> 01:21:31,800
Just the headlines? And so that's why I believe Sean

1816
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:34,239
Marks of all people, if that was the Knicks offer

1817
01:21:34,279 --> 01:21:35,800
that was on the table, and I mean clearly it was,

1818
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:38,520
it's what they accepted, they would have made the move anyway.

1819
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:40,560
And so if you got an offer from Michale Bridges

1820
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:43,079
that was so much that you make the move anyway,

1821
01:21:43,199 --> 01:21:45,319
even though your first round picks are owed to Houston,

1822
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:47,319
it's just an a plus. And like the stuff they

1823
01:21:47,359 --> 01:21:50,199
did on the Margins Nick Claxton, like now they can

1824
01:21:50,239 --> 01:21:52,119
try a bunch of different shit with him on offense

1825
01:21:52,159 --> 01:21:55,119
because of the way they're structure, this deal is probably

1826
01:21:55,319 --> 01:21:58,359
at worst market value. Like that's if you want to

1827
01:21:58,399 --> 01:22:01,239
call it a CC plus move. Okay, fine, Okay, Zion Williams,

1828
01:22:01,279 --> 01:22:03,439
maybe you're out on him A Dallas twenty thirty second,

1829
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:05,960
why the fuck not? Kyrie Ery's not super young. I

1830
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:08,239
mean they have Derek Leveley and Lucas like now you

1831
01:22:08,319 --> 01:22:10,640
have you've just stopped like and even honestly, if I

1832
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:12,840
was to pick like A a lot of people love

1833
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:14,880
Jordy Fernandez, by the way, the stuff that he's been

1834
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:17,800
espousing as to how the Nets are gonna try and play. It's, oh,

1835
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:19,720
this team's gonna be bad, but they're gonna be fun bad,

1836
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:22,039
or at least experimentally bad, and so you like that.

1837
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:24,840
If I had to pick harp on something, it's I

1838
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:27,680
probably would have signed Trenton Watford into an actual contract

1839
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:30,399
rather than letting him sign his qualifying offer. But again,

1840
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:32,359
that's someone who will have an opportunity and you can

1841
01:22:32,399 --> 01:22:33,960
see if you made a mistake there. So this is

1842
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:37,119
an A plus offseason and I I want to know

1843
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:39,479
and if you haven't answer to why it wouldn't be,

1844
01:22:40,199 --> 01:22:42,279
what's the argument for it not being. Is it just

1845
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:46,520
because refetishize rebuilds. And it's just in this case specifically,

1846
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:48,920
I'm making my own Devil's advocate, like I'm up ending

1847
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:52,960
my own devil's advocate argument. It's just like the stakes

1848
01:22:53,039 --> 01:22:55,359
were so high for them because there was no path

1849
01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:57,039
out of the position that they were in.

1850
01:22:57,479 --> 01:22:59,840
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah right, they had no outs and they created

1851
01:23:00,399 --> 01:23:02,720
like that, and that's just that's that's worthy of an

1852
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:04,920
A plus. If you're gonna knock it, you might just say, like,

1853
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:09,159
Claxton's not worth twenty five million a year just but

1854
01:23:09,279 --> 01:23:11,319
I don't know what the argument is for that, because that's,

1855
01:23:12,039 --> 01:23:14,840
you know, that's less than Jared Allen, say, got on

1856
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:17,640
his extension and Claxton, I think that's not a.

1857
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:21,439
Speaker 2: Perfect but he can dribble, he can he's a better

1858
01:23:21,479 --> 01:23:22,920
switch defender. I think, like there's just.

1859
01:23:23,159 --> 01:23:25,399
Speaker 1: Jared Allen's a better pastor. I don't mean to apologies

1860
01:23:25,439 --> 01:23:27,680
to Jared Allen apparently, let's get that out of the way, Earl.

1861
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:32,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I but I think the Claxton deal's totally fine. Yeah,

1862
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:34,119
like you said, at worst, you're gonna be able to

1863
01:23:34,199 --> 01:23:36,840
move that for something that's at least as good as

1864
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:39,520
Nick Claxton maybe that makes even more sense to your rebuild.

1865
01:23:40,119 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 2: Yeah A plus, I just that I don't know what

1866
01:23:42,119 --> 01:23:42,880
else to say about it.

1867
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:45,239
Speaker 1: I think we say nothing and we move on to

1868
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:46,479
your New York Knicks.

1869
01:23:47,319 --> 01:23:47,680
Speaker 2: Take them.

1870
01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 1: So then, by the way, this is the team you're

1871
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:51,800
gonna see, like the kind of beginnings of stuff. And

1872
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:54,560
then I will let the the slide. So you saw

1873
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:56,239
the two slides. We're gonna settle on the second one

1874
01:23:56,279 --> 01:23:59,319
because that's where the meat potatoes are. Their offseason was,

1875
01:23:59,720 --> 01:24:02,640
but the Knicks did a whole bunch of shit. They

1876
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:05,439
extended Tom Thibodeau three year extension through twenty twenty seven

1877
01:24:05,439 --> 01:24:08,279
twenty twenty eight. It's reportedly worth over ten million dollars

1878
01:24:08,319 --> 01:24:12,319
a year. They drafted Pacomb Dottier at number twenty five.

1879
01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:16,039
They turned number twenty four Tishawn George into four seconds

1880
01:24:16,079 --> 01:24:19,399
and Ariel Huckporty. He was number fifty eight on a

1881
01:24:19,399 --> 01:24:22,079
two way right now. They turned number thirty eight AJ

1882
01:24:22,239 --> 01:24:25,319
Mitchell into Kevin mccullar junior. That was number fifty eight.

1883
01:24:25,359 --> 01:24:27,119
He signed two. Uh, why do I have two number

1884
01:24:27,159 --> 01:24:30,199
fifty eight's there? Kevin mccullor Junior and Boss's twenty twenty

1885
01:24:30,199 --> 01:24:32,640
eight second round pick that was top forty five protected.

1886
01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:35,399
They traded three seconds, including their own in twenty and

1887
01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:38,399
thirty for Tyler Kohlik at number thirty four. He signed

1888
01:24:38,439 --> 01:24:41,239
a four year, nine point one million dollar deal, multiple

1889
01:24:41,279 --> 01:24:43,600
guaranteed years on that. There's a team option in twenty

1890
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:46,399
seven to twenty eight, and then there's the mckal bridges trade.

1891
01:24:46,399 --> 01:24:47,680
Their end of it. We just went through it, but

1892
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:49,960
very quickly. If your time, if you just jumped around

1893
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:53,279
the time stamps. They traded Buyan Madonovich Shake Milton signed

1894
01:24:53,279 --> 01:24:55,039
and trade three years nine point two million, only the

1895
01:24:55,079 --> 01:24:59,319
first year is guaranteed. Mamadi Diakite a twenty twenty five first,

1896
01:25:00,159 --> 01:25:03,279
five second, Milwaukee's twenty twenty five first, top four protected,

1897
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:06,600
their twenty twenty seven first, their twenty twenty nine first,

1898
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:09,279
and two thousand and thirty one first, all unprotected, plus

1899
01:25:09,359 --> 01:25:12,720
an unprotected swap in twenty twenty eight for McHale, Bridges,

1900
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:16,920
kitub hg Up, Juan Valet and twenty twenty six seconds.

1901
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:20,119
That's the least favorable from Detroit, Milwaukee, Orlando. They resigned

1902
01:25:20,159 --> 01:25:22,680
Ojanooby for five years, two hundred and twelve point five

1903
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:26,279
million dollars with a player option in year five, Jalen

1904
01:25:26,359 --> 01:25:29,520
Brunton extended for four years and one hundred and fifty

1905
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:32,640
six point five million dollars player option on that final season,

1906
01:25:33,279 --> 01:25:36,119
picked up Jericho Sims's two point one million dollar team option.

1907
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:39,000
They signed Precious Setuity to a one year, six million

1908
01:25:39,039 --> 01:25:42,039
dollar deal campaign is in Town on the one year

1909
01:25:42,199 --> 01:25:45,840
a minimum notable exits Alec Burks. He left one year

1910
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:48,479
minimum with Miami and then Isaiah Hartenstein three years and

1911
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:51,159
eighty seven million with the Thunder. There's a team option

1912
01:25:51,279 --> 01:25:53,560
in that deal, but the Knicks could not have matched

1913
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:56,159
that deal unless they carved out cap space because they

1914
01:25:56,239 --> 01:26:00,640
only had his early bird right grant they get for

1915
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:03,359
making me having to do so much legwork on the slides.

1916
01:26:03,479 --> 01:26:06,560
Speaker 3: But other than that, how are you feeling f for brevity?

1917
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:10,920
I guess, uh man, so I'm trying to look like

1918
01:26:11,039 --> 01:26:13,560
what knits are we picking? The price for Bridges was

1919
01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:14,399
super high.

1920
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 1: That actually, let's let's lay this out. The mcale Bridges

1921
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:24,479
trade at best is a c move because mcail Bridges

1922
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:28,560
does shit for your team. You overpaid for Michael Bridges

1923
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:31,319
in the assets, which is fine relative to your situation

1924
01:26:31,399 --> 01:26:33,880
and trying to win now, but we cannot sit here

1925
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:36,199
and say, even if you view it through the context

1926
01:26:36,279 --> 01:26:40,439
of what is Michal Bridges worth to this team, that

1927
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:42,520
this is in a vacuum like oh wow, like that

1928
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:44,800
was an a buff average trade for the Knicks. I

1929
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:47,359
think the only way to view it that way would

1930
01:26:47,359 --> 01:26:50,520
be Jalen Brunton doesn't sign this extension if you don't

1931
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:51,279
do the mcau bridge.

1932
01:26:51,319 --> 01:26:53,760
Speaker 3: So that's where I'm going is, like I was trying

1933
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:55,720
to set up that it was like it's objectively a

1934
01:26:55,840 --> 01:27:00,720
huge outlay to get a guy that just no, there's

1935
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:02,960
not another team that was giving that up. Now, there

1936
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:05,399
were all those reports of teams talking about four right

1937
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:07,640
first rounders for Bridges and you know, over the last

1938
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:11,359
eighteen months. I guess so if you if you're convinced

1939
01:27:11,399 --> 01:27:15,760
that the Brunson thing was part of it, then I

1940
01:27:15,800 --> 01:27:18,000
don't know. I mean, it's still hard to get out

1941
01:27:18,039 --> 01:27:20,479
of calling it like at best average. I think you're

1942
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:23,359
probably right about that, But then like it is one

1943
01:27:23,359 --> 01:27:25,600
of those things where you do need to evaluate, like, well,

1944
01:27:26,239 --> 01:27:28,840
draft picks just don't mean the same thing to every team.

1945
01:27:29,359 --> 01:27:31,840
Speaker 2: So for the Knicks specifically, like this twenty.

1946
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:34,880
Speaker 3: Five first if everything goes as intended, is what the

1947
01:27:35,039 --> 01:27:37,279
twenty fifth pick or something like that, and you can

1948
01:27:37,359 --> 01:27:37,800
just kind.

1949
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:40,319
Speaker 1: Of go a train and do bottom ten first rounders

1950
01:27:40,399 --> 01:27:42,560
next year. We only had theirs in Milwaukee, right.

1951
01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:44,439
Speaker 3: So you go through and you can be like, h,

1952
01:27:44,439 --> 01:27:46,039
I guess I can come up with a lot of

1953
01:27:46,079 --> 01:27:50,159
reasons to devalue several of those picks and just like

1954
01:27:50,279 --> 01:27:52,600
look a little further than saying it's a first like

1955
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:55,239
they're not all the same, so you could get that,

1956
01:27:55,399 --> 01:27:57,560
you could kind of, I don't know, make the case

1957
01:27:57,640 --> 01:27:57,960
that way.

1958
01:27:58,760 --> 01:27:59,079
Speaker 2: I guess.

1959
01:27:59,199 --> 01:28:02,479
Speaker 3: I still I wouldn't say the Bridges deal as as

1960
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:05,319
a standalone is you can't talk yourself into more than

1961
01:28:05,359 --> 01:28:06,159
like a C plus.

1962
01:28:06,359 --> 01:28:09,159
Speaker 2: I don't think even with the bruntsome part.

1963
01:28:09,039 --> 01:28:10,520
Speaker 3: Of it, but the brunts and part of it is

1964
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:13,600
so fucking good, Like that extension is so ridiculous.

1965
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:16,399
Speaker 2: Four for one fifty six left all this money on

1966
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:16,920
the table.

1967
01:28:17,399 --> 01:28:19,239
Speaker 1: He could have signed for anyone who wants to know

1968
01:28:19,359 --> 01:28:21,600
five years to sixty nine point one, and I'm gonna

1969
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:23,840
tell you right now, I know people won't loop him

1970
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:25,680
into this level of play where anything could have happened

1971
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:27,479
and he still would have gotten the money when you

1972
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:29,960
look at what happened after the mckel bridges trade. He

1973
01:28:30,159 --> 01:28:32,039
would have gotten that money no matter what, because the

1974
01:28:32,079 --> 01:28:34,279
Knicks had no other options than to believe that he

1975
01:28:34,359 --> 01:28:36,520
could have a terrible season next year. You could go

1976
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:38,640
mia and they would still need to offer him that

1977
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:41,199
money because that's how important he is to the vision

1978
01:28:41,279 --> 01:28:42,079
that they've put together.

1979
01:28:42,439 --> 01:28:46,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, what about the Ananobe price little sticker shockey or

1980
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:47,880
if that's just what it was gonna take.

1981
01:28:48,279 --> 01:28:50,279
Speaker 1: I think I don't think it's in a like they

1982
01:28:50,319 --> 01:28:52,800
gave him a player option, which is like seriously, like

1983
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:57,960
you gave him it's submax, but like, okay, that's fine,

1984
01:28:58,000 --> 01:28:59,680
Like he's not. I don't think o Gianobe's a mac I.

1985
01:28:59,720 --> 01:29:01,800
Actually he would have gotten four year maxes on the

1986
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:03,840
open market, to be clear, So you got him for

1987
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:06,199
the fifth year at what would be some max money.

1988
01:29:06,319 --> 01:29:08,680
So I don't know what, like the annual basis that

1989
01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:10,520
makes it a little bit easier for you to navigate

1990
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:12,840
the you know, traverse that area below the second apron

1991
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:15,760
in the coming years. But I think that's another average move.

1992
01:29:15,800 --> 01:29:17,760
When it came to talent retention, it could be above

1993
01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:20,399
average in the sense of, well, this is someone, this

1994
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:22,560
isn't James harden This guy had a ton of other

1995
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:24,359
options on the tape, Like there would have been no less.

1996
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:26,560
There are teams that didn't have cap space that would

1997
01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:28,600
have been prepared to create it to sign O Gananobi

1998
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:30,720
for a four year max deal. So if you want

1999
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:32,479
to go slop, But I wasn't. I didn't get sticker

2000
01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:33,960
shock at all. I was a little bit surprised that

2001
01:29:34,039 --> 01:29:35,640
he got the player option, if I'm being honest.

2002
01:29:35,880 --> 01:29:41,079
Speaker 3: So I guess, like, yeah, I wonder, is it unfair

2003
01:29:41,399 --> 01:29:46,039
to try to paint the Ananobe price as part of

2004
01:29:46,119 --> 01:29:49,760
the reason that Isaiah Hartenstein is not on the team anymore,

2005
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:51,880
because like all this stuff was kind of connected to

2006
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:55,880
like how could they possibly clear enough room or finagle

2007
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:59,239
enough stuff to give Hardenstein. Actually they were able to

2008
01:29:59,279 --> 01:30:00,960
give him the most they could, and the thunder just

2009
01:30:01,039 --> 01:30:01,520
came over.

2010
01:30:01,439 --> 01:30:03,680
Speaker 1: The top right right, And I think they would have

2011
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:06,039
need So it was the McHale Bridges trade that would

2012
01:30:06,039 --> 01:30:08,319
have thrown a wrench into those plans. And you could

2013
01:30:08,319 --> 01:30:09,800
have still figured out a way. But I think that

2014
01:30:10,079 --> 01:30:12,680
was a perfect case of look at how quickly Isaiah

2015
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:15,920
Hartenstein was meeting with meeting quote unquote meeting with Okay, see,

2016
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:18,520
like that's in an area. That's a situation where it's like,

2017
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:20,720
oh no, like they understood his market value was going

2018
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:22,079
to be more than they could give him.

2019
01:30:22,359 --> 01:30:24,680
Speaker 2: Yeah no then, and I don't I'm trying to find

2020
01:30:25,560 --> 01:30:25,920
a reason.

2021
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:28,880
Speaker 1: Well here, how about how about this though? They went

2022
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:29,199
for it?

2023
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:32,399
Speaker 2: Like that's something that like don't we want teams?

2024
01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:34,960
Speaker 3: Like are the Knicks better today than they were when

2025
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:37,199
the offseason started? Like oh my god, yeah, like it

2026
01:30:37,319 --> 01:30:41,079
costs a lot, but they're just this this team is loaded,

2027
01:30:41,239 --> 01:30:43,159
like there, you know, it's not perfect. The backup center

2028
01:30:43,199 --> 01:30:44,840
spot is a real quick I mean maybe the starting

2029
01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:47,520
center real question. I might be berare to give him

2030
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:50,199
credit if you couldn't bring back Hartenstein. The fact that

2031
01:30:50,279 --> 01:30:52,520
they didn't go out and signed Taj Gibson or.

2032
01:30:52,520 --> 01:30:55,479
Speaker 1: Something like giving Tims that club in his bag to

2033
01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:58,239
play now almost means I'm not going to say it'll

2034
01:30:58,239 --> 01:30:58,880
become a core.

2035
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:00,880
Speaker 2: Oh I know where you're going. I love it.

2036
01:31:01,359 --> 01:31:03,680
Speaker 1: We're going to see Julius Randald, og Ot and ob

2037
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:05,840
in the front court together where og is your defensive

2038
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:09,840
five and Julius Randall's your offensive five, and that however,

2039
01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:12,359
you want to flesh out that lineup from there, there's

2040
01:31:12,399 --> 01:31:14,479
honestly a chance that it's so good people are gonna

2041
01:31:14,479 --> 01:31:16,680
be mad that it's not playing more. I firmly believe

2042
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:19,760
that because you put I think the only when you

2043
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:21,800
look at it and say, okay, if we're building it out,

2044
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:25,399
Julius randall Og, Michale Bridge's off rip in that lineup

2045
01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:28,199
non negotiable, Like he just needs to be Bill If

2046
01:31:28,239 --> 01:31:29,960
that's what you want to use during the with Brunton,

2047
01:31:30,079 --> 01:31:33,399
Without Brunton, fine, that lineup is just gonna be thermonuclear

2048
01:31:33,479 --> 01:31:36,960
af In my opinion, it is like we.

2049
01:31:37,199 --> 01:31:38,920
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't remember the last time we sort

2050
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:41,159
of thought about it in these terms. But like the knock,

2051
01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:44,680
I mean, sure, who knows exactly how the randall Og

2052
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:47,720
four or five tandem is gonna work, But the knock

2053
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:49,880
against it or like why it won't happen is like, oh,

2054
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:52,239
that's just not a Tibbs. Look, he just he wants

2055
01:31:52,319 --> 01:31:56,159
the conventional five. But the Knicks basically said like it's

2056
01:31:56,199 --> 01:31:59,199
your only choice, like, yeah, Mitchell Robinson will start, and

2057
01:31:59,319 --> 01:32:01,840
then after that, like what are you can play Jered?

2058
01:32:01,920 --> 01:32:04,279
How much do you really want to play Jericho Simms TIBs,

2059
01:32:04,359 --> 01:32:07,439
Like it's just they really Yeah, the taking the club

2060
01:32:07,479 --> 01:32:10,000
out of his bag or like, I don't know, deciding

2061
01:32:10,079 --> 01:32:12,880
what clubs are in his bag maybe is like is

2062
01:32:13,039 --> 01:32:15,159
like kind of genius.

2063
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:16,119
Speaker 2: If that was actually the plan.

2064
01:32:16,760 --> 01:32:20,560
Speaker 1: And have you ever at any point felt more comfortable

2065
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:23,399
about a team giving Tom Thibodeaux just a contract. It's

2066
01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:25,880
an extension obviously, but I just feel like over the

2067
01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:29,079
last season and a half, he's just done things that

2068
01:32:29,199 --> 01:32:32,680
have shown that he's the playing time. You could definitely

2069
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:34,960
harp on it, and I think it's fair. But Jonathan

2070
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:37,119
MacCray just wrote about this for Anixt Film School recently,

2071
01:32:37,239 --> 01:32:40,239
like there's no data to prove that TIBs has ruined careers,

2072
01:32:40,479 --> 01:32:42,439
Like we just haven't. We don't have that. Yeah, he

2073
01:32:42,520 --> 01:32:44,199
might play guys too much, and there are certain injuries

2074
01:32:44,199 --> 01:32:46,479
you could maybe ascribe to overuse. The Knicks last year

2075
01:32:46,520 --> 01:32:48,119
got to a point where they just had no bodies

2076
01:32:48,199 --> 01:32:50,600
through no fault of Tom Thibodeau's and that's why he

2077
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:53,199
was playing who he was playing. So like, I'm fine

2078
01:32:53,239 --> 01:32:55,800
with them extending tib Like, at worst, that's a seam move,

2079
01:32:56,119 --> 01:32:58,520
Like that's which is incredible to say about where the

2080
01:32:58,600 --> 01:33:00,760
fan base was with Tibbs a year and a half

2081
01:33:01,159 --> 01:33:04,880
two years ago. I could criticize something like I like

2082
01:33:05,039 --> 01:33:07,159
Keishaan George a lot, but what was his path to

2083
01:33:07,199 --> 01:33:09,600
playing time with Josh Hart and Dante DiVincenzo and og

2084
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:12,079
Ananobi And the fact that they went with Tyler Colluk

2085
01:33:12,159 --> 01:33:14,520
is like that's the like in a separate move, like

2086
01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:16,800
building up to him. That dude's passing from what we

2087
01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:19,159
saw in Summer League, I don't think he's gonna play

2088
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:21,479
right out of the gate, Like that's okay. They If

2089
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:23,439
there's anything to harp on with this team aside from

2090
01:33:23,439 --> 01:33:25,439
the backup center spot, I'd like to know if they

2091
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:30,399
have enough B plus or better passing positionally other than

2092
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:33,600
Jayalen Brunson. And like the fact that Tyler Coluk, excuse me,

2093
01:33:33,720 --> 01:33:36,720
colick Is is right there. That's at least somewhat refreshing

2094
01:33:37,039 --> 01:33:39,960
or justifiable. I don't know if you're ready for the

2095
01:33:40,039 --> 01:33:43,359
grade portion of this, I find myself because I appreciate

2096
01:33:43,439 --> 01:33:46,479
them going for it, Like in the face of, by

2097
01:33:46,520 --> 01:33:48,600
the way, losing Isaiah Hartenstein. So for you to say

2098
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:51,640
that they're better when losing a player that was so

2099
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:53,640
integral on both ends, of the floor. I think says

2100
01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:56,399
a lot about this team. I think I'm prepared to

2101
01:33:56,439 --> 01:33:57,920
go to a B plus. The thing that makes me

2102
01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:01,840
a little uncomfortable, aside from the backup center spot, is

2103
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:04,520
they're now to me and you have to let me

2104
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:08,239
know if you disagree. They feel more reliant on Julius

2105
01:34:08,359 --> 01:34:11,359
Randall long term because they cashed in their trade chips

2106
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:14,640
on a guy who, if we are being brutally honest

2107
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:17,720
as of right now, has proven that he should not

2108
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:23,640
be your second best on ball option offensively. But for

2109
01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:26,800
this team, no, no, Now, Julius Randall needs to be

2110
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:30,760
because I think he's better qualified for That's what I mean. Yeah,

2111
01:34:30,760 --> 01:34:33,079
and so now he has to do that because you

2112
01:34:33,239 --> 01:34:34,760
cast in your tips on a guy who is well like,

2113
01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:36,640
he's probably better off being okay and bench you and

2114
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:40,279
it's fine, but like, overall, it needs to be Julius Randall,

2115
01:34:40,279 --> 01:34:44,239
and that's uncomfortable, not just because of his extension the eligibility,

2116
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:46,960
but because of what we've seen from Julius Randall during

2117
01:34:47,039 --> 01:34:48,800
his two trips to the postseason with New York.

2118
01:34:49,159 --> 01:34:52,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I I was, I was wondering if we

2119
01:34:52,479 --> 01:34:54,920
were going to go a third a range grade in

2120
01:34:54,960 --> 01:34:57,680
a row here. I think B plus is I'm totally

2121
01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:01,600
good with that. I think Hertenstein loss is big, but

2122
01:35:01,640 --> 01:35:03,560
that was just out of their control. So then after that,

2123
01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:06,920
if you're going, you know, any lower, it's just based

2124
01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:09,760
on you didn't like the og price, which then the

2125
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:12,439
Bruns and thing I think dramatically outweighs. Like if you

2126
01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:14,720
just put those two guys together and combine the salaries,

2127
01:35:14,800 --> 01:35:17,239
it's like, well that's that's a heist, like just done

2128
01:35:17,239 --> 01:35:20,800
average and then maybe you just can't get past the

2129
01:35:21,119 --> 01:35:22,199
price for bridges either.

2130
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:24,079
Speaker 2: I'm good with the B plus.

2131
01:35:24,319 --> 01:35:28,039
Speaker 3: I think I think the Knicks are like they were

2132
01:35:28,079 --> 01:35:30,039
in the position where they're very good. They had a

2133
01:35:30,119 --> 01:35:32,359
couple needs and they just they spent what it took,

2134
01:35:32,439 --> 01:35:34,399
they traded what it took, and they got better. Like

2135
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:36,800
that's I guess kind of a Celtic's theory a little bit,

2136
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:38,439
although they kind of went about things differently.

2137
01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:41,079
Speaker 1: And further, well, why isn't this an a crowd. I

2138
01:35:41,119 --> 01:35:43,079
think it's a hedge against like they made this call

2139
01:35:43,159 --> 01:35:45,760
for bridges what we respect and we mostly like overall,

2140
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:49,000
but you played your best trade hand like that is gone,

2141
01:35:49,079 --> 01:35:50,840
it's out of it and you decided to do it

2142
01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:54,199
on someone who is not the conventional star. I think

2143
01:35:54,279 --> 01:35:57,880
that's fine, but that's also just it's a risk, and

2144
01:35:57,960 --> 01:36:01,159
you're hedging against that risk by saying like this package

2145
01:36:01,199 --> 01:36:03,640
in a vacuum probably should have netted a player better

2146
01:36:03,720 --> 01:36:05,920
than mcal Bridges. But I also respect that the Nicks

2147
01:36:05,920 --> 01:36:07,880
had waited long enough. If you want them to make

2148
01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:09,399
the most of this window they needed to go after.

2149
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:10,640
Speaker 2: Yep, I think that's all fair.

2150
01:36:12,119 --> 01:36:15,760
Speaker 3: We are on to your Ouldolpia seventy six ers grant.

2151
01:36:15,960 --> 01:36:18,520
Another busy offseason is this? I'm surprised this isn't a

2152
01:36:18,560 --> 01:36:20,960
two slide set of transactions.

2153
01:36:21,039 --> 01:36:25,319
Speaker 1: So just really for doing their business with some succincstring.

2154
01:36:26,279 --> 01:36:28,319
Speaker 2: Start with the draft. No, I'm not gonna start with

2155
01:36:28,359 --> 01:36:28,640
the draft.

2156
01:36:28,680 --> 01:36:30,960
Speaker 3: They got Paul George four years, two hundred twelve million

2157
01:36:31,199 --> 01:36:34,560
player option on twenty seven to twenty eight, biggest offseason signing,

2158
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:37,399
like was the like one of the only guys out there.

2159
01:36:37,560 --> 01:36:38,399
Speaker 2: They went and got him.

2160
01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:41,399
Speaker 3: Good, just that they paid what it took. Good for

2161
01:36:41,479 --> 01:36:43,680
the Sixers. They planned out, you know all this stuff.

2162
01:36:44,159 --> 01:36:46,840
Drafted Jared McCain at sixteen, drafted to Dean Bona at

2163
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:49,439
forty one, gave him four years seven point nine million,

2164
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:51,279
and got a partial guarantee on the twenty five to

2165
01:36:51,319 --> 01:36:54,720
twenty six year that salary. Kelly Rubay back for two

2166
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:57,359
years sixteen point four million. Player option on the second.

2167
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:02,119
Andre Drummond two years ten long awaited, although again a

2168
01:37:02,239 --> 01:37:04,640
part of the plan. Tyrese Maxi gets five years, two

2169
01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:07,920
hundred and four million dollars, no options on that. Eric

2170
01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:11,279
Gordon to your minimum, got Caleb Martin for a steal

2171
01:37:11,439 --> 01:37:14,720
four years thirty five million. kJ Martin back on the

2172
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:17,840
Darryl Moury special. We're gonna trade you two year sixteen

2173
01:37:18,039 --> 01:37:21,119
million twenty five twenty six is non guaranteed there. Kyle

2174
01:37:21,159 --> 01:37:23,920
Lowry got the minimum, Reggie Jackson got the minimum, Gershon

2175
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:27,000
Yobacele after just tearing it up in Paris, gets a

2176
01:37:27,079 --> 01:37:30,119
minimum signed David Jones and Jeff down to two ways.

2177
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:33,600
Speaker 2: So a couple, well not a couple. They've remade this roster.

2178
01:37:33,920 --> 01:37:35,800
Speaker 1: Go ahead, right, I was gonna say, the biggest thing

2179
01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:39,239
is that they are now unbeatable in a twerking contest.

2180
01:37:39,319 --> 01:37:41,640
When you have Yabuselli and Kyle Lowry on the same team,

2181
01:37:42,039 --> 01:37:46,039
just two of the biggest asses literally, hey, plus let's

2182
01:37:46,079 --> 01:37:47,079
go to the Toronto Raptors.

2183
01:37:47,479 --> 01:37:51,560
Speaker 3: So obviously because the Sixers planned it this way to

2184
01:37:51,720 --> 01:37:54,079
just flip the whole roster almost outside of embiid In

2185
01:37:54,159 --> 01:37:57,760
Maxi Nick Batum gone to the Clippers. Tobias Harris. Sixers

2186
01:37:57,800 --> 01:37:59,600
fans will not be shedding tears over that one. Two

2187
01:37:59,680 --> 01:38:02,159
years fifty two million with the Pistons. The Anthony Melon

2188
01:38:02,199 --> 01:38:05,920
also gone, Buddy Healed, gone, Wave, Paul Reid, and Robert

2189
01:38:05,960 --> 01:38:11,000
Covington remains unsigned. So a ton of turnover here, But

2190
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:14,840
you got your big three at the one, three and five.

2191
01:38:15,159 --> 01:38:18,159
You rounded it now again, the Sun's taught us we

2192
01:38:18,239 --> 01:38:21,000
cannot over value minimum signings when handing out grades. So

2193
01:38:21,079 --> 01:38:24,279
we're just gonna put a button on that. What do

2194
01:38:24,359 --> 01:38:26,760
we think about the Sixers, just the big swingers of

2195
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:27,439
the offseason?

2196
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:31,479
Speaker 1: This is this could have gone so poorly for them,

2197
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:34,600
and it went perfectly and they are I don't know

2198
01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:36,800
when last time this has happened, But a team that

2199
01:38:37,159 --> 01:38:39,720
entered the offseason with more than fifty million in cap

2200
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:43,840
space exits it in the luxury tax. That is just

2201
01:38:44,000 --> 01:38:47,079
like a plus plus plus cap maneuvering and even just

2202
01:38:47,279 --> 01:38:49,760
like if you're like, oh, like four years for Paul

2203
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:51,760
George when he's gonna be thirty four years old or

2204
01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:54,479
whatever it is, it's all right. Like Tyrese Maxie, you

2205
01:38:54,520 --> 01:38:56,600
made him wait to get paid and he still didn't

2206
01:38:56,600 --> 01:38:59,399
get a player option. Patrick Williams got a player option

2207
01:38:59,439 --> 01:39:01,800
from a Bull, but Tires Maxi after waiting a year

2208
01:39:02,239 --> 01:39:04,840
doesn't get a player option from the Sixers. What is

2209
01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:07,680
what is the argument against it? Like, that's how you

2210
01:39:07,720 --> 01:39:10,319
have to map this out. What's the argument against against

2211
01:39:10,319 --> 01:39:11,199
an A plus here?

2212
01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:12,640
Speaker 2: I don't have it.

2213
01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:15,279
Speaker 3: You would have to be Paul George on the back

2214
01:39:15,399 --> 01:39:17,520
end of this contract will not be worth it. That's

2215
01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:20,119
true of like every four year deal. I mean, if

2216
01:39:20,159 --> 01:39:22,399
you're over thirty or whatever, Like that's just how it is.

2217
01:39:22,439 --> 01:39:25,199
You're paying up front and like the Maxi piece of

2218
01:39:25,279 --> 01:39:29,960
it is just again like that's just like there aren't

2219
01:39:29,960 --> 01:39:31,680
a lot of not a lot of examples where you're

2220
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:33,439
just where you could tell a guy as good as

2221
01:39:33,520 --> 01:39:36,640
Maxi just hold on, like we'll, we'll, we'll make it right.

2222
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:37,199
Speaker 2: Eventually.

2223
01:39:37,359 --> 01:39:39,439
Speaker 3: We're gonna wait a year longer than a lot of

2224
01:39:39,479 --> 01:39:42,479
your peers that you're better than. So to get buy

2225
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:45,600
in there is enormous especially for Darryl Morray, who James

2226
01:39:45,640 --> 01:39:50,359
Harden h just just for for MAXI to trust Darryl

2227
01:39:50,399 --> 01:39:53,600
Morey after James Harden's like screed against him as a liar.

2228
01:39:53,720 --> 01:39:57,319
Last thought last season was pretty impressive. I just yeah,

2229
01:39:57,399 --> 01:40:00,920
it's it's an a plus and and any quibbling over

2230
01:40:01,000 --> 01:40:03,399
the George the back end of the George deal is like,

2231
01:40:04,079 --> 01:40:08,039
Joel Embiid is an MVP in his prime today and

2232
01:40:08,159 --> 01:40:10,439
to a greater extent than almost any really good player

2233
01:40:10,479 --> 01:40:12,880
in the league. Like tomorrow is not promised, so we

2234
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:14,640
need to be as good as we can possibly be

2235
01:40:14,800 --> 01:40:18,359
in twenty four to twenty five. And everything the Sixers did,

2236
01:40:18,880 --> 01:40:22,359
all the pre planning, all the big swings, all the spending,

2237
01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:27,479
just like is in service of we need to build

2238
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:32,159
a title worthy roster from basically nothing around Joel Embiid,

2239
01:40:32,199 --> 01:40:34,239
and I think they did that about as well as

2240
01:40:34,319 --> 01:40:35,960
you could realistically imagine.

2241
01:40:36,760 --> 01:40:40,439
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find something just to like nitpickover because

2242
01:40:40,479 --> 01:40:42,880
I agree with everything you said. If we're at a

2243
01:40:42,920 --> 01:40:45,359
point where people already talking like, oh, like Yabu Sell

2244
01:40:45,399 --> 01:40:47,239
he could start some games at the four for them,

2245
01:40:47,399 --> 01:40:49,680
that's the okay, that's the sore spot where it's you

2246
01:40:49,800 --> 01:40:51,960
don't really want Paul George and Kayla Martin can do

2247
01:40:52,079 --> 01:40:55,479
it jointly together, but you'd probably prefer both of those

2248
01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:58,520
guys guarding wings and down rather than having to rumble

2249
01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:01,479
with any type of fours. But it's like the only

2250
01:41:01,560 --> 01:41:04,960
really resource you could say then is well the room exception.

2251
01:41:05,319 --> 01:41:07,079
Do you think like that could have gotten the more

2252
01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:10,079
runway out of that? And I don't, then Ben Kelly

2253
01:41:10,199 --> 01:41:13,000
Ubra and also there was untold value, not untold, but

2254
01:41:13,079 --> 01:41:15,520
there was more value in having Ubre back because ninety

2255
01:41:15,560 --> 01:41:18,239
situation where you have his early bird rights next year

2256
01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:20,640
or maybe his full bird rights if he decides to

2257
01:41:20,760 --> 01:41:23,680
opt in. And I don't think like had you like

2258
01:41:23,760 --> 01:41:26,000
you weren't gonna get Naji Marshall for the room exception.

2259
01:41:26,119 --> 01:41:27,960
He got more than that from Dallas, And so I

2260
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:29,640
don't know what the name was out there that would

2261
01:41:29,680 --> 01:41:32,439
have been better and they could still like for all

2262
01:41:32,520 --> 01:41:35,039
me like me, I'm not advocating for this, but like,

2263
01:41:35,159 --> 01:41:37,159
do you really like Jake Crowder is like the the

2264
01:41:37,239 --> 01:41:38,920
other minimum option that you could have looked at. I'd

2265
01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:41,800
probably rather take the flyer on Yabucelli right at this point,

2266
01:41:42,159 --> 01:41:44,840
So I like it's an A plus and there's just

2267
01:41:44,920 --> 01:41:47,479
there's You cannot convince me otherwise you would have to

2268
01:41:47,560 --> 01:41:49,640
tell me that I don't even know that Paul George

2269
01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:51,840
is gonna request to trade once the trade restriction lifts

2270
01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:55,359
or something. I just and I did you mentioned this already,

2271
01:41:55,399 --> 01:41:57,760
But the fact that like Tyre's MAXI was just on

2272
01:41:57,920 --> 01:42:01,399
board amid James Harden calling the front office like liars

2273
01:42:01,439 --> 01:42:03,880
and cheaters and steelers and ass fucks or whatever they were,

2274
01:42:04,279 --> 01:42:07,680
I just like, I like, it just blows my mind.

2275
01:42:07,920 --> 01:42:10,960
Like and we talked about like it was a calculating

2276
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:13,000
It wasn't even like it was calculating. It was a

2277
01:42:13,079 --> 01:42:16,800
massive gamble and it played out perfectly. And it's it's

2278
01:42:16,840 --> 01:42:20,279
even wilder because Paul George is coming from the team

2279
01:42:20,399 --> 01:42:23,960
that they traded James Harden too, right, So we thought,

2280
01:42:24,399 --> 01:42:27,000
like the whole Paul George to Philly thing, we initially

2281
01:42:27,039 --> 01:42:28,880
thought like, well, you just hope the Clippers get better

2282
01:42:29,439 --> 01:42:31,239
and increase the chances that they would just want to

2283
01:42:31,279 --> 01:42:34,039
keep everyone together and apparently like you might have facilitated

2284
01:42:34,079 --> 01:42:36,800
their undoing sos.

2285
01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:39,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I it's I mean, if anything, it just

2286
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:42,680
reflects poorly on James Harden because apparently he's the only

2287
01:42:42,760 --> 01:42:45,600
guy that didn't trust Aryl Morey. I don't know, that's

2288
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:48,279
probably not true over the years. All right, uh, last

2289
01:42:48,319 --> 01:42:53,479
team in this division here, you and your entire cohort

2290
01:42:53,680 --> 01:42:56,479
of North of the Border brethrens Toronto Raptors.

2291
01:42:57,399 --> 01:42:59,239
Speaker 1: Look, here's my thing. I don't even know if we

2292
01:42:59,319 --> 01:43:01,560
need to go through all the transactions. The pick conveyed,

2293
01:43:01,880 --> 01:43:05,000
it turned into Stefan Castle, not Stephan Castle, Rob Dillingham,

2294
01:43:05,319 --> 01:43:07,560
so they get an f the pick conveyed. They shouldn't

2295
01:43:07,560 --> 01:43:11,119
have let it conveyed. Actually, though, drafted the Jacoby Walter

2296
01:43:11,159 --> 01:43:15,359
at number nineteen, drafted Jonathan Magbo at number thirty one,

2297
01:43:15,439 --> 01:43:16,880
then sign him to a three year, six point one

2298
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:19,319
million dollar deal. There's a team option on the final season.

2299
01:43:20,319 --> 01:43:24,560
They traded Jalen McDaniels for Davion Mitchell, Sasha Vazankov, who

2300
01:43:24,560 --> 01:43:26,960
will not be reporting to the team, and Jamal shed

2301
01:43:27,000 --> 01:43:29,439
who was drafted at number forty five, and Portland two

2302
01:43:29,720 --> 01:43:32,079
twenty five second round pick. That might be like, I

2303
01:43:32,159 --> 01:43:33,880
know they got talent, but I'm assuming they'll trade their

2304
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:35,119
way out of it. That could be like a number

2305
01:43:35,159 --> 01:43:36,520
thirty five pick right there.

2306
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:37,039
Speaker 2: Could be three.

2307
01:43:37,199 --> 01:43:40,479
Speaker 1: Signed e Manuel quickly five years, one sixty two point

2308
01:43:40,520 --> 01:43:43,760
five million. There's two point five million in unlikely intents

2309
01:43:43,800 --> 01:43:45,800
per year that could bring it up to one seventy five.

2310
01:43:46,239 --> 01:43:48,880
They extended Scottie Barnes. He got the five year max

2311
01:43:48,920 --> 01:43:51,199
special two hundred and twenty four point two million dollars

2312
01:43:51,479 --> 01:43:53,479
can go up to two hundred and sixty nine point one.

2313
01:43:53,920 --> 01:43:56,199
No player option though, so he's no Patrick Williams. In

2314
01:43:56,239 --> 01:43:59,000
my book, Bruce Brown picked up his team option. Garrett

2315
01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:02,039
Temple's back on your minimum. They signed Bruno Fernando for

2316
01:44:02,079 --> 01:44:04,159
a minimum deal that will guarantee on opening night if

2317
01:44:04,159 --> 01:44:06,479
he's still on the roster. Uh, the biggest like sort

2318
01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:08,479
of just notable that's not gonna be on the list

2319
01:44:08,560 --> 01:44:11,479
that anyone sees on screen. Garret Trent Junior left Toronto

2320
01:44:12,039 --> 01:44:14,600
to sign a minimum with the Bucks. Another sort of

2321
01:44:14,720 --> 01:44:17,920
weird heat situation to where we know they offered him

2322
01:44:17,920 --> 01:44:21,119
an extension fifteen million dollars per year and he elected

2323
01:44:21,159 --> 01:44:23,960
to go to free agency, and like you got to

2324
01:44:24,000 --> 01:44:25,479
a point in is Toronto where I don't know if

2325
01:44:25,520 --> 01:44:27,239
he was willing to come back for that number, and

2326
01:44:27,279 --> 01:44:29,640
they just decided like well dude, we went about our

2327
01:44:29,680 --> 01:44:31,720
off season business, so like, this isn't We're not going

2328
01:44:31,800 --> 01:44:34,600
to restructure things for you. And they did have They

2329
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:36,760
only have like ten and a half million dollars under

2330
01:44:36,800 --> 01:44:40,279
the first apron, so that would have been complicated. But

2331
01:44:40,399 --> 01:44:42,560
another sort of just well, like you still could have

2332
01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:44,079
figured out a way to keep him and you didn't.

2333
01:44:44,119 --> 01:44:46,520
And his shooting is important, but he ended up signing

2334
01:44:46,520 --> 01:44:48,279
for the minimum. This is not like went and got

2335
01:44:48,359 --> 01:44:51,359
actual money like Caleb Martin did. So he seemed to

2336
01:44:51,439 --> 01:44:53,680
misread the market and then decided like I'm gonna go

2337
01:44:53,760 --> 01:44:54,840
try and help a contender and.

2338
01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:56,119
Speaker 2: That'll reboot my value.

2339
01:44:56,560 --> 01:44:59,520
Speaker 1: Uh, fascinating off season for a team that really didn't

2340
01:44:59,560 --> 01:45:01,800
do much in terms of turnover. Though, wouldn't you say.

2341
01:45:02,399 --> 01:45:04,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to like get a handle on it.

2342
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:07,119
Speaker 3: It'd be because like some of the stuff was decided

2343
01:45:07,159 --> 01:45:08,920
before the off season, Like I think quickly was just

2344
01:45:08,960 --> 01:45:11,800
gonna get something in this range from the moment they

2345
01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:16,000
traded for him Barnes, Like I feel better about Barnes

2346
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:20,159
getting this than Wagner, but like it's still if you

2347
01:45:20,199 --> 01:45:21,560
want I'm trying to look at like if you wanted

2348
01:45:21,560 --> 01:45:24,039
to knock it, you might say still a little early.

2349
01:45:24,399 --> 01:45:26,479
I think I probably would have just given Barnes this

2350
01:45:26,520 --> 01:45:27,159
steal myself.

2351
01:45:27,359 --> 01:45:30,199
Speaker 1: They also weren't. Their flexibility is going to be different

2352
01:45:30,319 --> 01:45:32,920
because they had to pay a manual quickly. Now they

2353
01:45:33,000 --> 01:45:35,479
pay yaka perdle right, they have all j Barrett on

2354
01:45:35,520 --> 01:45:37,720
the books, like there was already bigger money there. And

2355
01:45:37,720 --> 01:45:40,680
also Scotty Barnes is better like that. That's also like,

2356
01:45:41,479 --> 01:45:43,760
that's what I mean, like Tyree's MAXI was at least

2357
01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:46,000
a level of to use an example last year if

2358
01:45:46,039 --> 01:45:48,600
he said like no, like you pay me now if

2359
01:45:48,640 --> 01:45:50,079
you're the Sixers, well we could keep him in a

2360
01:45:50,079 --> 01:45:52,760
restricted free agency, but we don't want to risk like

2361
01:45:52,920 --> 01:45:56,560
doing damage to the relationship. I would say Scotty Barnes

2362
01:45:56,600 --> 01:45:58,960
probably had that kind of leverage with Toronto where is

2363
01:45:58,960 --> 01:46:02,760
Franz Wagner did not. But anyway, shout out Franz Bodner.

2364
01:46:02,840 --> 01:46:03,920
We want everyone to get paid.

2365
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:07,079
Speaker 2: So is there room for.

2366
01:46:07,239 --> 01:46:09,560
Speaker 3: Like a global or is it beyond the scope of

2367
01:46:09,560 --> 01:46:12,640
what we're talking about, like a global criticism of Toronto

2368
01:46:13,479 --> 01:46:17,359
like being different than they were last year, and maybe

2369
01:46:17,479 --> 01:46:20,439
like on balance younger because Siakam and og are gone

2370
01:46:20,479 --> 01:46:24,039
and you're building around quickly and and and Barnes and

2371
01:46:24,159 --> 01:46:25,680
I guess Crady Dick and like some of their other

2372
01:46:25,760 --> 01:46:29,199
younger guys, Like, but you're still pretty like middlely, like

2373
01:46:29,600 --> 01:46:31,079
as the kids would say, they're pretty.

2374
01:46:30,920 --> 01:46:33,640
Speaker 2: Mid which I don't say because I'm not young enough

2375
01:46:33,680 --> 01:46:34,239
to do that.

2376
01:46:34,399 --> 01:46:36,159
Speaker 3: And also that's probably like a five year old term

2377
01:46:36,199 --> 01:46:38,520
at this point, Like is there room to criticize that?

2378
01:46:38,800 --> 01:46:44,039
Speaker 2: Where enough riz enough? Oh?

2379
01:46:44,279 --> 01:46:46,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, you know what I mean.

2380
01:46:46,560 --> 01:46:48,880
Speaker 3: Like they're not gonna be one of the four worst teams,

2381
01:46:48,960 --> 01:46:52,039
They're probably not a playoff team, so they're kind of

2382
01:46:52,079 --> 01:46:54,199
in the middle. And they do have like a couple

2383
01:46:54,239 --> 01:46:56,720
of big salaries on the books as it is a

2384
01:46:56,800 --> 01:47:01,640
plus the plus partle plus Barrett, Like are they do

2385
01:47:01,760 --> 01:47:04,800
we criticize them for not doing something more extreme one

2386
01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:05,760
direction or the other?

2387
01:47:06,720 --> 01:47:08,520
Speaker 1: I just don't what did that look like letting a

2388
01:47:08,600 --> 01:47:09,960
manual quickly walk for nothing?

2389
01:47:10,359 --> 01:47:12,399
Speaker 2: That there isn't really a way for them to have

2390
01:47:12,479 --> 01:47:13,279
done a lot different.

2391
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:15,119
Speaker 1: I think if you have a problem with their offseason,

2392
01:47:15,159 --> 01:47:17,840
you really have a problem with like what they did

2393
01:47:18,159 --> 01:47:20,760
with Pascal siakam O Giannanobi, which is just not part

2394
01:47:20,800 --> 01:47:24,520
of this great anymore, right, And I look, could you

2395
01:47:24,680 --> 01:47:27,039
would you have preferred to have had Gary Trent Junior

2396
01:47:27,239 --> 01:47:29,439
on fifteen or like even just paid him when he

2397
01:47:29,520 --> 01:47:33,560
was making rather than Bruce Brown's team option. Probably, but

2398
01:47:33,720 --> 01:47:36,760
also picking up Bruce Brown's team option at least telegraphs

2399
01:47:36,800 --> 01:47:38,479
like they might be open to some trade stuff to

2400
01:47:38,520 --> 01:47:41,479
where they feel and not necessarily in a bad way,

2401
01:47:42,039 --> 01:47:44,399
but that a team that will be reactive where it's

2402
01:47:44,399 --> 01:47:47,359
they're being. They're not proactively doubling down or tearing it down.

2403
01:47:47,359 --> 01:47:49,840
They're gonna see how good they are or not, and

2404
01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:52,319
then they're going to react from there. And I think

2405
01:47:52,359 --> 01:47:54,640
there's value in like just looking at your roster, like

2406
01:47:54,680 --> 01:47:57,680
there's guys that you've paid, Like in RJ, they didn't

2407
01:47:57,680 --> 01:48:00,760
pay him, but they're paying him quickly now is Scottie Barnes.

2408
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:02,840
But they also have upside, so they're getting more expensive,

2409
01:48:03,159 --> 01:48:06,359
but they also have upside. So I don't I don't

2410
01:48:06,399 --> 01:48:08,560
know that they did anything though, Like it wasn't super

2411
01:48:08,640 --> 01:48:10,680
creative to where you were graded as an above average

2412
01:48:10,680 --> 01:48:14,319
offseason though if you like Jakobe Walter, I mean that's fine,

2413
01:48:14,359 --> 01:48:17,079
but they had some options at their disposal and they

2414
01:48:17,119 --> 01:48:19,640
decided to kind of not I guess it is kick

2415
01:48:19,680 --> 01:48:23,119
the can like that's essentially what they did. I guess

2416
01:48:23,159 --> 01:48:25,439
if anything, like, how do you feel about the like

2417
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:27,600
the immanual quickly deal feels like the point where it

2418
01:48:27,680 --> 01:48:30,319
Scotty Barnes is all right if you wanted them to wait, fine,

2419
01:48:30,479 --> 01:48:32,960
he would have ended up getting max money anyway, properly.

2420
01:48:33,239 --> 01:48:35,239
Right again, I just want to reiterate because I'm sure

2421
01:48:35,239 --> 01:48:37,840
there's you destroyed the magic for the way they went

2422
01:48:37,880 --> 01:48:40,520
about Franz Wagner. Freanz Haardner wasn't in the most improved

2423
01:48:40,520 --> 01:48:43,560
player discussion. Scotty Barnes was and might have won it

2424
01:48:43,640 --> 01:48:47,520
had he never gotten injured. So that's the deal that

2425
01:48:47,560 --> 01:48:48,960
I'm like kind of looking at. And I'm like the

2426
01:48:49,079 --> 01:48:51,159
theory of him, the off the dribble, three point shooting,

2427
01:48:51,399 --> 01:48:53,720
the off ball three point shooting, the stop on a

2428
01:48:53,760 --> 01:48:56,800
whim floater, the defensive hustle that he brings. The question

2429
01:48:56,920 --> 01:48:58,920
is can he be an actual floor general? And I

2430
01:48:58,960 --> 01:49:01,119
think the lodg dribble playing still needs to get better.

2431
01:49:01,439 --> 01:49:03,359
And I'm just like, well, you have to go look

2432
01:49:03,399 --> 01:49:05,159
at it as a percentage of the salary cap now,

2433
01:49:05,199 --> 01:49:07,319
and like this thing isn't gonna be twenty five percent

2434
01:49:07,439 --> 01:49:11,640
of the salary cap. Ever, so I feel like this

2435
01:49:11,800 --> 01:49:14,199
is probably an average off season. There's nothing.

2436
01:49:14,279 --> 01:49:17,159
Speaker 3: I like, there's things that I might have done differently,

2437
01:49:17,359 --> 01:49:19,520
but like you could look at the Bruce Brown like

2438
01:49:19,600 --> 01:49:21,359
that I might have tried to do, Like maybe I

2439
01:49:21,359 --> 01:49:22,239
would have operated with.

2440
01:49:22,319 --> 01:49:24,600
Speaker 1: Cap space, but like who did you want them to

2441
01:49:24,640 --> 01:49:24,960
go get?

2442
01:49:25,239 --> 01:49:30,600
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think too, Like, so for Quickly, is it

2443
01:49:30,920 --> 01:49:33,199
plausible to argue if you're gonna try to knock this

2444
01:49:33,319 --> 01:49:36,119
down below a sea overall? Could you make the case that,

2445
01:49:36,279 --> 01:49:39,560
like you didn't, nobody else was gonna go above this

2446
01:49:39,800 --> 01:49:42,279
number for him? Like you could have just let, you know,

2447
01:49:42,439 --> 01:49:44,600
let this marinate a little bit longer and kind of

2448
01:49:45,000 --> 01:49:47,920
decide like just gotten gotten answers to the questions that

2449
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:51,359
you outlined about his game, his fitness in this particular role,

2450
01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:54,439
Like is that Yeah, I guess you could have done that.

2451
01:49:54,880 --> 01:49:56,920
But I mean, again, like the CAP's going up and

2452
01:49:57,039 --> 01:49:59,640
I don't know, I don't know that the possible savings

2453
01:49:59,720 --> 01:50:02,399
and like, by the way, if you I guess, like

2454
01:50:02,520 --> 01:50:04,560
it's kind of a problem if it turns out that

2455
01:50:04,680 --> 01:50:08,000
like Quickly is actually worth way less, you know than this,

2456
01:50:08,680 --> 01:50:12,159
But like I don't really know, I don't know, just

2457
01:50:12,279 --> 01:50:15,800
kind of kind of searching for like a reason because

2458
01:50:15,840 --> 01:50:18,439
it does on its face, and maybe again this is

2459
01:50:18,560 --> 01:50:20,720
just not understanding things in terms of percentage of the

2460
01:50:20,760 --> 01:50:22,920
cap and looking at raw dollar totals and being anchored

2461
01:50:22,960 --> 01:50:24,840
to like four and five years ago rates.

2462
01:50:25,000 --> 01:50:27,720
Speaker 2: It feels a little high just for what he's been

2463
01:50:27,840 --> 01:50:28,760
and what he is.

2464
01:50:29,399 --> 01:50:31,840
Speaker 3: But maybe it's not, and maybe this just was what

2465
01:50:31,960 --> 01:50:34,199
it was gonna cost no matter what, and the downside

2466
01:50:34,199 --> 01:50:36,199
of doing it now is not that great. Like so

2467
01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:38,079
I'm trying to get off of a sea, but this

2468
01:50:38,239 --> 01:50:39,880
just feels like a c I think.

2469
01:50:40,039 --> 01:50:41,840
Speaker 1: I think it's a See. The only other thing that

2470
01:50:41,960 --> 01:50:44,279
I would say is that what they could have done

2471
01:50:44,359 --> 01:50:46,600
this gets into the road not traveled in theory, like

2472
01:50:46,640 --> 01:50:48,319
Gary Tren Junior would have had a been a medical

2473
01:50:48,720 --> 01:50:50,520
if you could have gotten Garry Trent Junior back for

2474
01:50:50,680 --> 01:50:53,720
like fifteen million a year by because he accepted a minimum,

2475
01:50:53,840 --> 01:50:56,720
So like that's substantially more right, and then you could

2476
01:50:56,760 --> 01:50:59,520
have used most of your mid level while staying under

2477
01:50:59,520 --> 01:51:01,560
the tax. Would you have preferred that to just having

2478
01:51:01,640 --> 01:51:05,600
Bruce Brown? Basically that would have but I don't know,

2479
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:09,239
Like I don't know how uninterested Gary Trent Junior was

2480
01:51:09,319 --> 01:51:12,000
in remaining with Toronto because like, would they have had to,

2481
01:51:12,199 --> 01:51:13,920
I think I probably would have preferred to have Gary

2482
01:51:13,960 --> 01:51:16,079
Trent Junior on this roster. I'm not gonna lie and

2483
01:51:16,159 --> 01:51:18,159
then use your mid level like a Naji Marshall would

2484
01:51:18,159 --> 01:51:19,920
have helped them and they could have paid him more

2485
01:51:19,960 --> 01:51:22,680
than Dallas in that scenario. But I just don't know

2486
01:51:22,760 --> 01:51:25,279
how realistic it and none of these players that I'm

2487
01:51:25,319 --> 01:51:28,840
sort of just like Naji Marshall plus Gary Trent Junior,

2488
01:51:28,880 --> 01:51:30,760
which again we don't know if either of those players

2489
01:51:30,760 --> 01:51:32,439
would have wanted to have come back for what Toronto

2490
01:51:32,479 --> 01:51:34,399
could have offered or come to Toronto for what they

2491
01:51:34,439 --> 01:51:36,840
could have offered versus Bruce Brown. It's not like this

2492
01:51:37,319 --> 01:51:39,920
big enough missed opportunity for me to say that's a

2493
01:51:40,079 --> 01:51:41,279
C minus or a D plus.

2494
01:51:41,479 --> 01:51:43,920
Speaker 3: Well, and yeah, and there's enough uncertainty there, like one,

2495
01:51:44,039 --> 01:51:45,600
what are they gonna get for Bruce Brown at some

2496
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:48,720
point like don't know? And then also don't really know,

2497
01:51:48,840 --> 01:51:51,079
like that Gary Trent relationship might just have been broken,

2498
01:51:51,199 --> 01:51:53,239
like there may have been just no scenario where he's

2499
01:51:53,319 --> 01:51:57,479
back potentially Like so yeah, like I get it if

2500
01:51:57,520 --> 01:51:59,840
you if if you're going below a sea, I think

2501
01:52:00,359 --> 01:52:01,720
your those are your points.

2502
01:52:01,520 --> 01:52:02,960
Speaker 2: You make, but I can't quite get there.

2503
01:52:03,119 --> 01:52:04,800
Speaker 1: Actually the only going to go below a see into

2504
01:52:04,840 --> 01:52:07,600
a C minus for them, just because like there are

2505
01:52:07,760 --> 01:52:09,920
really worth so many, Like looking at what some of

2506
01:52:09,960 --> 01:52:14,479
these players got paid, like Simoni Fontechio, like they get

2507
01:52:14,560 --> 01:52:17,800
like that's someone that there were so many Malie Beasley

2508
01:52:18,119 --> 01:52:20,319
because like you're losing Gary Trent Junior, why not get

2509
01:52:20,359 --> 01:52:22,039
is just like yeah, just swap.

2510
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:23,399
Speaker 2: Just minimum minimum swaps.

2511
01:52:23,680 --> 01:52:26,479
Speaker 1: So I just feel like they were because this team

2512
01:52:26,560 --> 01:52:29,800
does need spacing around its core still, right, just because.

2513
01:52:29,479 --> 01:52:32,960
Speaker 2: Grady Dick is too important, you know, like he matters too.

2514
01:52:33,159 --> 01:52:35,439
Speaker 1: But now it's like you kind of treated this as like, oh,

2515
01:52:35,520 --> 01:52:37,680
the shooting we saw some r J Barrett last year

2516
01:52:37,760 --> 01:52:40,640
with Toronto was real, and as Nick fans will tell you,

2517
01:52:41,399 --> 01:52:43,880
it might not be. And then like Scottie Barnes is

2518
01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:46,159
shooting improvement in real is real, which I would agree

2519
01:52:46,239 --> 01:52:49,359
that it is, but like he wasn't thirty nine percent

2520
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:51,560
on eight attempts per game and hitting all these pull

2521
01:52:51,640 --> 01:52:54,159
ups like throughout the year. So this team still has

2522
01:52:54,239 --> 01:52:59,000
that spacing question mark, and there were avenues for them

2523
01:52:59,039 --> 01:53:03,479
to get better in that department without doing anything like ridiculous. Now,

2524
01:53:03,520 --> 01:53:05,159
if you're if you sat here and told me Garret

2525
01:53:05,239 --> 01:53:08,000
tren Junior was never coming back, then it's all right, Well,

2526
01:53:08,239 --> 01:53:10,479
you still could have paid Bruce Brown more but less

2527
01:53:10,840 --> 01:53:13,119
by just declining the team option and then still turned

2528
01:53:13,119 --> 01:53:15,159
around and maybe use most of the maybe he would

2529
01:53:15,159 --> 01:53:17,960
have left for like a different path, like another team there.

2530
01:53:18,039 --> 01:53:21,000
But here's what, here's why I'm giving them a C minus.

2531
01:53:21,159 --> 01:53:23,439
I don't think they were creative enough, is what it

2532
01:53:23,479 --> 01:53:26,399
feels like. And that's just slightly below average from me.

2533
01:53:27,119 --> 01:53:30,239
Speaker 3: They are they we established up front. They are your

2534
01:53:30,359 --> 01:53:32,880
Toronto Raptors. So I'm gonna concede to you and and

2535
01:53:33,039 --> 01:53:34,479
oh we're gonna go see my I was gonna give

2536
01:53:34,479 --> 01:53:36,439
them a sea for the podcast. I'm gonna co sign

2537
01:53:36,479 --> 01:53:40,199
a C minus because they're yours and I value your opinion.

2538
01:53:41,880 --> 01:53:44,239
We move on now to a new division, the Central Division.

2539
01:53:44,239 --> 01:53:46,119
Speaker 2: We got the Chicago Bulls. Here. I will I will

2540
01:53:46,159 --> 01:53:48,439
claim ownership of my Chicago Bulls.

2541
01:53:48,520 --> 01:53:50,640
Speaker 1: Just really sure.

2542
01:53:53,239 --> 01:53:57,399
Speaker 3: So that my criticisms will really resonate because I've claimed ownership.

2543
01:53:57,800 --> 01:54:02,399
Uh traded Alex Crusa for Josh Giddy and what else, Dan,

2544
01:54:02,520 --> 01:54:06,359
Did they get anything else? No, No, they did not

2545
01:54:06,520 --> 01:54:09,159
the right to extend Josh Giddy that came with him

2546
01:54:09,960 --> 01:54:13,359
drafted modest Bizillis at number eleven. Patrick Williams got five

2547
01:54:13,439 --> 01:54:15,600
years and ninety million with a player option, which we've

2548
01:54:15,680 --> 01:54:19,319
referenced several times already today. Jalen Smith got three years

2549
01:54:19,359 --> 01:54:23,239
twenty seven million, signed and traded Demarta Rozen. He got

2550
01:54:23,279 --> 01:54:26,039
three years just under seventy four million, fifty eight point

2551
01:54:26,079 --> 01:54:28,960
two which is guaranteed from the Kings for Chris Duarte

2552
01:54:29,039 --> 01:54:31,560
a twenty five second, a twenty eight second and Raikwan

2553
01:54:31,640 --> 01:54:34,800
Gray that was via San Antonio signed to Domasonogo and

2554
01:54:34,840 --> 01:54:37,479
DJ Stewart to two ways. Andre Drummond departs, goes to

2555
01:54:37,520 --> 01:54:40,199
Philadelphia for two years ten million. Tory Craig picked up

2556
01:54:40,279 --> 01:54:43,079
his player option, Dan, what's up with the Bulls? How

2557
01:54:43,119 --> 01:54:44,439
do we feel about this offseason?

2558
01:54:44,600 --> 01:54:49,000
Speaker 2: Some positive signs sortos, but also some not so positive ones.

2559
01:54:49,159 --> 01:54:50,880
Speaker 1: I don't know if you listened to the Bulls look Ahead.

2560
01:54:50,920 --> 01:54:54,000
We did with Jason pat yet, but it was so

2561
01:54:54,880 --> 01:54:58,760
bleak and dreary, and I just felt so bad. I

2562
01:54:58,920 --> 01:55:03,479
think the positives on this is the Bulls are clearly

2563
01:55:03,640 --> 01:55:06,880
like kind of rebuilding, like you can't get rid of

2564
01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:09,960
Caruso and Rozen and expect to get better better then

2565
01:55:10,039 --> 01:55:12,119
again it's the Bulls, and so then they kind of

2566
01:55:12,119 --> 01:55:14,199
feel like they're the same. And the fact that they're

2567
01:55:14,199 --> 01:55:17,439
talking about Josh Giddy is there like Lonzo ball replacement.

2568
01:55:17,520 --> 01:55:19,800
It's like, well, you know that's different because Lonzo Ball

2569
01:55:19,880 --> 01:55:23,079
could shoot and defend and Josh Giddy does, uh, maybe

2570
01:55:23,199 --> 01:55:25,039
half of those things. If you want to, like believe

2571
01:55:25,119 --> 01:55:27,079
in the set three pointer during the regular season but

2572
01:55:27,159 --> 01:55:31,760
not the playoffs. I just here's my thing, and I do.

2573
01:55:32,039 --> 01:55:32,079
Speaker 2: So.

2574
01:55:32,479 --> 01:55:34,920
Speaker 1: The Demarta Rosen stuff is weird because we could say

2575
01:55:35,000 --> 01:55:36,479
that they could have gotten more for him if they

2576
01:55:36,600 --> 01:55:39,439
just moved him before free agency. We're probably right. It

2577
01:55:39,720 --> 01:55:42,439
wasn't easy to find a fit for Demarta Rosen to say, oh,

2578
01:55:42,479 --> 01:55:44,199
he definitely would have gotten you a first round pick.

2579
01:55:44,479 --> 01:55:46,199
But you know who would have gotten you multiple first

2580
01:55:46,279 --> 01:55:50,640
round picks, Alex Caruso. And so you took Andre Drummond,

2581
01:55:50,880 --> 01:55:54,680
DeMar Derozen and Alex Caruso three of your what six

2582
01:55:54,840 --> 01:55:58,279
seven most important players last year, and you got exactly

2583
01:55:58,439 --> 01:56:00,840
zero first round picks for them on the way out.

2584
01:56:01,279 --> 01:56:04,880
That is disgusting. Asset management. And now you're at a

2585
01:56:04,960 --> 01:56:08,560
point where are you fashioning your offense around Josh Giddy

2586
01:56:08,920 --> 01:56:10,880
And what does that do to Kobe White. I guess

2587
01:56:10,920 --> 01:56:12,520
he's good enough off the ball to where putting the

2588
01:56:12,520 --> 01:56:15,239
ball in Josh Giddy's hands is whatever. I'm fine with

2589
01:56:15,319 --> 01:56:17,960
the Patrick Williams deal. You didn't win that negotiation.

2590
01:56:18,079 --> 01:56:20,640
Speaker 3: Patrick Williams, of all people, got a player option. I

2591
01:56:20,720 --> 01:56:22,279
want to know what the offer was out there.

2592
01:56:22,359 --> 01:56:24,479
Speaker 1: If you just said no player option, sorry, that he

2593
01:56:24,520 --> 01:56:26,560
would have been like, oh, I'm gonna go elsewhere. Then

2594
01:56:27,119 --> 01:56:30,840
I just this is the fact that they're rebuilding is

2595
01:56:30,920 --> 01:56:33,279
a good thing. But the fact that I can't guarantee

2596
01:56:33,319 --> 01:56:35,640
that that's actually what they think they're doing or feel

2597
01:56:35,720 --> 01:56:38,640
good about it is a disaster. And I actually like

2598
01:56:38,680 --> 01:56:42,479
the modest Bousellis pick, So that's like the that's the

2599
01:56:42,520 --> 01:56:44,319
good and I think Jalen Smith three years and twenty

2600
01:56:44,359 --> 01:56:48,600
seven million is fine. However, why make that decision before

2601
01:56:48,680 --> 01:56:50,600
figuring out the Demard like You could have been the

2602
01:56:50,680 --> 01:56:53,439
team that got like regardless of what you think they

2603
01:56:53,600 --> 01:56:57,039
could have gotten for Demarta Rosan. Previously, you put yourself

2604
01:56:57,079 --> 01:56:59,279
in a situation where you either didn't want to or

2605
01:56:59,319 --> 01:57:02,840
couldn't take on Harrison Barnes because of tax concerns, and

2606
01:57:02,960 --> 01:57:05,800
san Antonio got the best non demort rows and trade

2607
01:57:05,800 --> 01:57:08,600
asset in that deal. They actually honestly got the two

2608
01:57:08,680 --> 01:57:11,039
best ones because Harrison Barnes is better than Chris Duarte.

2609
01:57:12,039 --> 01:57:15,000
So I just what is like you could talk to

2610
01:57:15,079 --> 01:57:17,199
me out of an F minus, but like, I just

2611
01:57:17,760 --> 01:57:20,399
what is the what's the upside? Like you have to

2612
01:57:20,479 --> 01:57:25,039
be a believer in modest Bruzellis and Josh Giddy and

2613
01:57:25,159 --> 01:57:27,399
it's I'll believe in one of those dudes, especially with

2614
01:57:28,039 --> 01:57:30,880
It's just like, even if Josh Gitty's good, the reward

2615
01:57:30,960 --> 01:57:32,720
at the end of the tunnel is a nine figure

2616
01:57:32,800 --> 01:57:35,840
deal for someone who can't be the face of your rebuild.

2617
01:57:37,520 --> 01:57:40,840
Speaker 2: So the bulls are new at this and they don't

2618
01:57:41,000 --> 01:57:45,199
totally know how it works yet. So I think we

2619
01:57:45,319 --> 01:57:47,000
need to be a little look there.

2620
01:57:47,359 --> 01:57:50,399
Speaker 3: They think, they think they think this is what a

2621
01:57:50,479 --> 01:57:55,960
rebuild starts, as uh and like more you know, baby steps.

2622
01:57:56,000 --> 01:57:59,800
I think like part of this is they just don't

2623
01:57:59,840 --> 01:58:03,079
have the ability to do a more complete job, which

2624
01:58:03,079 --> 01:58:06,119
would involve Vucevic being gone, which would involve zach Lavine

2625
01:58:06,159 --> 01:58:09,199
being gone. By the way, I think zach Lavine is

2626
01:58:09,239 --> 01:58:12,119
now undervalued. I think I think there's a good chance

2627
01:58:12,199 --> 01:58:14,520
that he's good enough for a couple months to start

2628
01:58:14,600 --> 01:58:17,039
the season to where they will get something for him

2629
01:58:17,079 --> 01:58:19,199
and not have to give up assets to move him.

2630
01:58:19,239 --> 01:58:22,359
Speaker 1: I think that's a possibility in the Bulls' defense here,

2631
01:58:22,399 --> 01:58:25,000
If that's actually zach Lavine's trade value, then he is

2632
01:58:25,119 --> 01:58:27,359
right where he should be. You're not attaching anything to

2633
01:58:27,479 --> 01:58:28,199
move zack Lavine.

2634
01:58:28,319 --> 01:58:30,479
Speaker 2: You cannot write I totally agree with that.

2635
01:58:30,560 --> 01:58:33,279
Speaker 3: You cannot be giving shit up to move off of

2636
01:58:33,359 --> 01:58:37,079
a contract you signed this recently. It's so yeah, like

2637
01:58:37,439 --> 01:58:39,199
that's kind of beside it, Like they just aren't in

2638
01:58:39,239 --> 01:58:40,880
a position to move either of those guys. They put

2639
01:58:40,920 --> 01:58:44,159
themselves in this spot, so they're culpable for it. But

2640
01:58:44,399 --> 01:58:48,039
like I just, uh, they don't really quite understand how

2641
01:58:48,119 --> 01:58:50,159
this works. Like you have to get picks for Cruso,

2642
01:58:50,279 --> 01:58:53,560
you had the opportunity to get picks for Cruso Giddy,

2643
01:58:54,039 --> 01:58:58,720
Like it's what's the what's the best case for the

2644
01:58:58,800 --> 01:58:59,640
Giddy acquisition?

2645
01:59:00,039 --> 01:59:01,159
Speaker 2: He's awesome and.

2646
01:59:01,279 --> 01:59:06,640
Speaker 3: You maxim right like that, I don't feel like that's

2647
01:59:06,680 --> 01:59:09,079
a great Like, look, I guess if he's worth a max,

2648
01:59:09,199 --> 01:59:12,279
then something spectacular has happened and you're you're good with it,

2649
01:59:12,760 --> 01:59:16,439
But like the realistic outcome is you probably feel somewhat

2650
01:59:16,479 --> 01:59:19,119
obligated to pay him more than he's gonna be worth

2651
01:59:19,239 --> 01:59:21,760
because you gave up Cruso to get him, and there's

2652
01:59:21,800 --> 01:59:24,680
some face saving involved there, Like you can't there is

2653
01:59:24,760 --> 01:59:27,079
there a scenario where Josh Getty's bad this.

2654
01:59:27,159 --> 01:59:30,520
Speaker 2: Year and they're just like, nah, we're done right.

2655
01:59:30,680 --> 01:59:33,960
Speaker 1: Honestly, you know what makes this ten times worse? They

2656
01:59:34,079 --> 01:59:35,880
traded him to a team that has all the first

2657
01:59:36,000 --> 01:59:36,479
round picks.

2658
01:59:38,800 --> 01:59:41,399
Speaker 3: You could have just written in like it also four

2659
01:59:41,560 --> 01:59:43,680
first round picks, and it would have been like that's

2660
01:59:43,720 --> 01:59:46,039
a weird clerical error. Oh well, like let's just look,

2661
01:59:46,079 --> 01:59:46,760
we want Caruso.

2662
01:59:46,800 --> 01:59:47,239
Speaker 1: Who cares.

2663
01:59:47,600 --> 01:59:51,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, they wouldn't have missed him. I mean, I'm trying

2664
01:59:51,399 --> 01:59:53,840
to find a reason not to just just this is

2665
01:59:53,960 --> 01:59:57,920
just an f They moved on from DeRozan, but it

2666
01:59:58,000 --> 01:59:59,960
was too late and they were too cheap to take

2667
02:00:00,199 --> 02:00:03,079
back Harrison Barnes and get that pick, right, they probably

2668
02:00:03,119 --> 02:00:05,720
could have picked away with the with the swap, right,

2669
02:00:08,239 --> 02:00:11,159
I'm it's for sure in f if you really want

2670
02:00:11,199 --> 02:00:12,720
to go F minus. I support it.

2671
02:00:13,520 --> 02:00:15,479
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give them an F minus, but we'll meet

2672
02:00:15,479 --> 02:00:16,840
in the middle ground with an I just feel like

2673
02:00:16,880 --> 02:00:18,720
it needs to be on the record that this organization

2674
02:00:18,920 --> 02:00:22,119
is fucking shameful and I feel I think they're probably

2675
02:00:22,119 --> 02:00:24,479
Bulls fans that will disagree with us. I feel terrible

2676
02:00:24,520 --> 02:00:26,079
for Bulls fans. And you can call me all the

2677
02:00:26,159 --> 02:00:28,600
names you want, make fun of my piercings, my polish,

2678
02:00:28,680 --> 02:00:31,159
my face, my forehead, my nose, get it all out.

2679
02:00:31,319 --> 02:00:32,920
This is this is the space that just come at

2680
02:00:32,960 --> 02:00:35,319
me because I honestly feel bad for you. There's just

2681
02:00:35,399 --> 02:00:37,279
nothing to root for with this team. It does seem

2682
02:00:37,439 --> 02:00:40,159
like we can't even sit here and guarantee that they're.

2683
02:00:40,000 --> 02:00:43,039
Speaker 3: Gonna be bad enough to just like by the way,

2684
02:00:43,279 --> 02:00:46,159
they're net negative in the first round pick department technically

2685
02:00:46,199 --> 02:00:48,199
because they owe the top ten protected pick to San

2686
02:00:48,239 --> 02:00:51,000
Antonio and they will be bad enough probably to keep it.

2687
02:00:51,479 --> 02:00:53,760
Speaker 1: But it's like, are they gonna continue to be bad? Okay,

2688
02:00:53,840 --> 02:00:55,960
then it's top a protected this season that it's like

2689
02:00:56,159 --> 02:00:58,560
we're getting into territory where do you trust the Bulls

2690
02:00:58,920 --> 02:01:01,319
to be bad to the right kind of bad so

2691
02:01:01,439 --> 02:01:03,760
that they get to keep this pick year over year,

2692
02:01:04,079 --> 02:01:06,039
and so, like you said, I guess they're new with

2693
02:01:06,119 --> 02:01:07,680
this and have no idea what the fuck they're doing.

2694
02:01:07,760 --> 02:01:09,439
But to make it that apparent that they have no

2695
02:01:09,520 --> 02:01:11,439
idea what at least try to fake it. What do

2696
02:01:11,479 --> 02:01:13,319
you think I do for two hours every single week

2697
02:01:13,359 --> 02:01:14,439
when we talk about the NBA.

2698
02:01:15,079 --> 02:01:17,800
Speaker 2: My god, you haven't watched the game since twenty thirteen.

2699
02:01:17,880 --> 02:01:21,600
Speaker 3: No, I think, like, somewhere in here, if you want

2700
02:01:21,640 --> 02:01:26,359
to be as charitable as possible, you could say, like

2701
02:01:26,560 --> 02:01:30,119
they are. They do seem to have a mind towards

2702
02:01:30,640 --> 02:01:34,199
let's get a little younger, which is like a rebuilding characteristic,

2703
02:01:35,239 --> 02:01:38,159
But it's just And the other thing is it's so

2704
02:01:38,399 --> 02:01:40,680
hard for them to really go all the way into

2705
02:01:40,720 --> 02:01:43,119
a rebuild because of decisions they made prior to this

2706
02:01:43,239 --> 02:01:46,439
most recent offseason. So it's like, but you can't let

2707
02:01:46,479 --> 02:01:48,600
them off the hook for that because they they did

2708
02:01:48,680 --> 02:01:50,800
this to themselves, and so it should be hard to

2709
02:01:50,840 --> 02:01:53,760
get out of this situation as like as the ill

2710
02:01:53,920 --> 02:01:54,880
conceived as this one.

2711
02:01:55,399 --> 02:01:58,600
Speaker 1: I take your point about like prior decisions contributing to

2712
02:01:58,640 --> 02:02:01,560
this situation, but they made active choices to make this

2713
02:02:02,119 --> 02:02:05,359
current situation with the opportunity they had worse, the whole

2714
02:02:05,359 --> 02:02:07,760
Harrison Barnes stuff, not getting that pickswap and stun get

2715
02:02:07,840 --> 02:02:09,760
any first round equity for Alex Caruso.

2716
02:02:10,399 --> 02:02:13,880
Speaker 3: Like, I just my god, it's an F. Let's let's

2717
02:02:13,920 --> 02:02:16,560
call it an F and with like a parentheses F

2718
02:02:16,680 --> 02:02:18,640
minus just because it's that bad.

2719
02:02:19,199 --> 02:02:21,920
Speaker 1: So we will go on to the Cleveland Cavaliers, who

2720
02:02:23,479 --> 02:02:26,319
like talk about an offseason filled with talent retention, right,

2721
02:02:27,079 --> 02:02:29,800
so the Cavs, and as we're recording this, let's get

2722
02:02:29,800 --> 02:02:31,479
to the note that's like kind of undefined. I even

2723
02:02:31,520 --> 02:02:34,520
included it in the screen, which we haven't done, like

2724
02:02:34,600 --> 02:02:38,800
unfinished moves or exits. The Isaacacorro restricted free agency standoff ongoing.

2725
02:02:38,840 --> 02:02:42,880
Apparently they fired JB. Bickerstaff, hired Kenny Atkinson, drafted Jaalen

2726
02:02:42,920 --> 02:02:46,039
Tyson at number twenty. Dono Midgell extended three years, one

2727
02:02:46,119 --> 02:02:48,279
hundred and fifty point three million. He has a twenty

2728
02:02:48,319 --> 02:02:51,359
seven to twenty eight player option. Evan Mobley five years,

2729
02:02:51,399 --> 02:02:53,279
two hundred and twenty four point two million, can go

2730
02:02:53,399 --> 02:02:56,079
up to two sixty nine point one no options on that.

2731
02:02:56,640 --> 02:02:59,319
Jared Allen, this was the extension that surprised me. Three

2732
02:02:59,399 --> 02:03:02,319
years ninety point seven million dollars fully guaranteed. He's now

2733
02:03:02,359 --> 02:03:05,439
signed through his age thirty season. Emmy Bates, by the way,

2734
02:03:05,520 --> 02:03:09,319
is back on a two way. This isn't interesting because

2735
02:03:09,319 --> 02:03:12,359
we talked about how you can't necessarily grade teams favorably

2736
02:03:12,880 --> 02:03:16,479
for talent retention. I do think you can when like

2737
02:03:16,560 --> 02:03:19,640
the Evan Mobley extension, that's not an a move because

2738
02:03:19,680 --> 02:03:22,640
like it was just whatever, the don Image extension, when

2739
02:03:22,640 --> 02:03:24,640
you're worried about him leaving and there's no guarantee that

2740
02:03:24,680 --> 02:03:27,560
he was gonna sign anything. That's something you can create

2741
02:03:27,600 --> 02:03:30,279
as above average. It wasn't the full four years, but

2742
02:03:30,439 --> 02:03:33,319
you now have him under team control for an additional three.

2743
02:03:33,960 --> 02:03:35,760
That's a big deal. And I would even argue the

2744
02:03:35,840 --> 02:03:38,479
Jared Allen contract, which I just assumed was like the

2745
02:03:38,640 --> 02:03:42,560
offshoot of like, oh, look at what Isaiah Hartenstein got,

2746
02:03:42,720 --> 02:03:44,640
I might be on that level, but even he had

2747
02:03:44,680 --> 02:03:48,239
to concede like he doesn't have control over that third year.

2748
02:03:48,680 --> 02:03:51,119
Like it felt like a like a response to oh,

2749
02:03:51,319 --> 02:03:53,720
like the non star market at First Centers is just

2750
02:03:53,840 --> 02:03:57,399
kind of bizarre. I'm gonna take this money that legitimately

2751
02:03:57,439 --> 02:03:59,039
surprised me, and I think that ends up being a

2752
02:03:59,119 --> 02:04:02,239
good deal, whether it's to keep or to trade for Cleveland.

2753
02:04:02,720 --> 02:04:03,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if you know this, but we're

2754
02:04:04,000 --> 02:04:07,159
not allowed to weigh in on Jared Allen's financial situation

2755
02:04:07,359 --> 02:04:08,479
based on our history.

2756
02:04:08,640 --> 02:04:11,479
Speaker 1: So I have no comment with a commentor who said

2757
02:04:11,520 --> 02:04:12,800
that when we had a cat when we were talking

2758
02:04:12,800 --> 02:04:14,600
about the Cavs or one of the things like, weren't

2759
02:04:14,640 --> 02:04:16,479
you the guys you didn't like the Jared Allen extension.

2760
02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:19,600
It's people are wrong. We've we literally apologized for it

2761
02:04:19,640 --> 02:04:20,760
at the end of almost everything.

2762
02:04:22,760 --> 02:04:25,479
Speaker 2: No, the Mitchell thing, you're totally right about that.

2763
02:04:25,560 --> 02:04:27,640
Speaker 3: It's like you're paying one hundred and fifty million dollars

2764
02:04:27,720 --> 02:04:31,359
for Donovan Mitchell, but also for like silence, which is

2765
02:04:31,479 --> 02:04:35,199
super valuable after spending like every second of his tenure

2766
02:04:35,239 --> 02:04:37,880
with the team listening to people like me saying like

2767
02:04:38,199 --> 02:04:40,319
I just I think they're gonna have to blow this up.

2768
02:04:40,359 --> 02:04:42,920
Speaker 2: They're not gonna be able to recoup. You can't.

2769
02:04:42,960 --> 02:04:45,479
Speaker 3: You can't let him get towards an expiring situation because

2770
02:04:45,520 --> 02:04:47,199
then you're value. So now we don't have to listen

2771
02:04:47,239 --> 02:04:49,880
to that anymore, and that's worth something. In addition to

2772
02:04:50,000 --> 02:04:53,399
the production, Donovan Mitchell provides on the floor, and like,

2773
02:04:53,720 --> 02:04:56,359
I think Kenny Atkinson gonna get another crack at this.

2774
02:04:56,479 --> 02:04:58,960
I think he generally impressed in Brooklyn until he was

2775
02:04:59,039 --> 02:05:02,479
not the coach that served and superstars wanted, which doesn't

2776
02:05:02,520 --> 02:05:04,800
seem like a hymn problem based on how other coaches

2777
02:05:04,840 --> 02:05:08,439
were treated in Brooklyn by mostly the same superstars. So

2778
02:05:09,119 --> 02:05:12,600
I think that's an upgrade. I mean, it's nothing, there's

2779
02:05:12,640 --> 02:05:15,359
nothing crazy here because it is talent retention, but it's

2780
02:05:15,439 --> 02:05:18,520
not like a Celtics level talent retention. But it's still

2781
02:05:18,680 --> 02:05:20,600
like this is in the B range, I think, and

2782
02:05:20,720 --> 02:05:21,920
you could talk me into higher.

2783
02:05:22,479 --> 02:05:25,079
Speaker 1: So two things, It's this has nothing to do with

2784
02:05:25,159 --> 02:05:26,399
what you just said, but the fact that they have

2785
02:05:26,520 --> 02:05:29,119
their top four guys who are all All Star caliber,

2786
02:05:29,279 --> 02:05:31,880
if you want to frame it that way, under contracts

2787
02:05:31,920 --> 02:05:34,520
for at least the next three years, like Donovan Mitchell

2788
02:05:34,560 --> 02:05:36,000
is the one that can reach free agency first in

2789
02:05:36,039 --> 02:05:39,239
twenty twenty seven. That is an incredible position to be

2790
02:05:39,319 --> 02:05:42,840
in and we just never really see it anymore. But two,

2791
02:05:43,119 --> 02:05:45,560
I'm wondering how you feel about this offseason knowing that

2792
02:05:45,760 --> 02:05:48,359
you I think we all thought something I kind of

2793
02:05:48,399 --> 02:05:50,239
thought Jared Allen was going to be traded this just

2794
02:05:50,319 --> 02:05:53,439
based off the hit piece from the Athletic. You were

2795
02:05:53,520 --> 02:05:56,239
actively advocating for them to shake it up though, So

2796
02:05:56,359 --> 02:05:59,680
how do you feel about their offseason knowing that was

2797
02:05:59,720 --> 02:06:01,680
your dance leading into the offseason.

2798
02:06:01,800 --> 02:06:04,800
Speaker 3: I think, well, the main reasons, or maybe it's just

2799
02:06:04,960 --> 02:06:08,359
reason that I thought a breakup was, you know, you

2800
02:06:08,439 --> 02:06:10,079
kept giving me the over under of I think like

2801
02:06:10,199 --> 02:06:12,680
one point five of the four being gone, and I

2802
02:06:12,760 --> 02:06:15,840
kept taking the over. It was all just I really

2803
02:06:15,960 --> 02:06:19,680
thought Mitchell was not going to sign this extension and

2804
02:06:19,880 --> 02:06:21,880
was going to put the Calves in a position where

2805
02:06:22,600 --> 02:06:25,479
the best decision was going to be to get something

2806
02:06:25,600 --> 02:06:28,920
for him before his value started to decline, because your

2807
02:06:28,960 --> 02:06:30,960
trade partners would have been limited had he not signed

2808
02:06:31,000 --> 02:06:33,399
this extension, because they would have had the same fears

2809
02:06:33,439 --> 02:06:35,760
that Cleveland would have had, which is like, what are

2810
02:06:35,760 --> 02:06:37,680
we gonna rent this guy for a year or a

2811
02:06:37,760 --> 02:06:39,399
portion of a year and then he's going to sign

2812
02:06:39,720 --> 02:06:42,239
where he wants to in free agency? Like that to

2813
02:06:42,399 --> 02:06:45,760
me just felt like there was so much smoke that

2814
02:06:45,920 --> 02:06:47,560
there had to have been a fire, and just like

2815
02:06:48,159 --> 02:06:50,119
logically for him it's like, yeah, I want to go

2816
02:06:50,159 --> 02:06:52,960
play where I choose to go, I was traded to Cleveland. That's,

2817
02:06:53,000 --> 02:06:55,800
you know, just all that really informed my opinion. I

2818
02:06:55,840 --> 02:06:58,479
think there's also the question of and we're going to

2819
02:06:58,520 --> 02:07:00,359
get an answer now because like you said, these guys

2820
02:07:00,359 --> 02:07:03,319
are under contract forever, Like how how well does this

2821
02:07:03,920 --> 02:07:08,199
too small slash too big front court or quartet like work?

2822
02:07:08,479 --> 02:07:08,600
Speaker 2: Right?

2823
02:07:09,199 --> 02:07:11,399
Speaker 3: That was less of a concern for me because the

2824
02:07:11,479 --> 02:07:14,680
Calves were winning fifty games and looking like a pretty

2825
02:07:14,720 --> 02:07:17,880
dangerous playoff team with those guys, and then still doing

2826
02:07:17,920 --> 02:07:20,399
that last year when half of them were hurt all season.

2827
02:07:21,079 --> 02:07:23,560
Speaker 1: So I feel I.

2828
02:07:23,640 --> 02:07:26,000
Speaker 3: Feel like the Calves are gonna be This is gonna

2829
02:07:26,039 --> 02:07:29,319
be at a year where they're at least as good

2830
02:07:29,359 --> 02:07:31,000
as they've been at any point in the last two

2831
02:07:31,119 --> 02:07:34,319
and maybe better, just because they have the stability hopefully

2832
02:07:34,359 --> 02:07:37,560
everybody's healthy. I do think they're still upside here if

2833
02:07:37,600 --> 02:07:41,960
Evan Mobley expands his game, if Garland bounces back. So like,

2834
02:07:42,640 --> 02:07:44,720
while I did advocate for breaking it up, that was

2835
02:07:44,800 --> 02:07:47,239
just based on like I didn't think Mitchell was gonna stick,

2836
02:07:47,479 --> 02:07:49,479
and I thought they were gonna get to a point

2837
02:07:49,479 --> 02:07:51,840
where they had to do something. So now that he's there,

2838
02:07:52,560 --> 02:07:55,000
I think the talent is legit, and I think there

2839
02:07:55,119 --> 02:07:59,319
is a possibility it'll work. Okay, So yeah, I feel

2840
02:07:59,399 --> 02:08:02,840
pretty good. I guess about it, even though I thought

2841
02:08:02,920 --> 02:08:05,119
it was gonna get nuked pretty consistently.

2842
02:08:05,920 --> 02:08:08,600
Speaker 1: I if we had to quibble on one thing here,

2843
02:08:09,920 --> 02:08:12,119
would you have rather just used and they could have

2844
02:08:12,199 --> 02:08:14,920
technically done like both, but we like the financial realities

2845
02:08:14,960 --> 02:08:17,039
of it, not done both in full. But my question

2846
02:08:17,239 --> 02:08:20,159
is would you rather be waiting out this Isaacakorro situation

2847
02:08:20,279 --> 02:08:23,239
or have just used your non tax payermid level like

2848
02:08:23,319 --> 02:08:25,560
if I think it depends on like would you rather

2849
02:08:25,640 --> 02:08:27,520
have had some Mony Fontachio than him on this team?

2850
02:08:27,560 --> 02:08:28,479
Or would you rather have had not?

2851
02:08:28,800 --> 02:08:28,840
Speaker 3: Like?

2852
02:08:28,880 --> 02:08:30,479
Speaker 1: Those are the two guys I'm just gonna keep coming

2853
02:08:30,520 --> 02:08:30,760
back to.

2854
02:08:31,319 --> 02:08:34,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Marshall just to get that guy who

2855
02:08:34,760 --> 02:08:37,199
might you could throw at wings, which they still just

2856
02:08:37,319 --> 02:08:39,520
don't really have, unless you're gonna just have Mobilely do

2857
02:08:39,640 --> 02:08:40,680
that all the time, which.

2858
02:08:40,840 --> 02:08:43,800
Speaker 2: I guess he could do. But you know, they're still

2859
02:08:43,960 --> 02:08:47,800
just a Chorro does not fill the like, oh my god, this.

2860
02:08:47,920 --> 02:08:50,720
Speaker 3: Is the perfect fifth guy right like, doesn't fill that

2861
02:08:50,840 --> 02:08:52,560
need like he some of it, he does, some of

2862
02:08:52,600 --> 02:08:53,119
it he doesn't.

2863
02:08:53,159 --> 02:08:54,359
Speaker 2: That's why he's in the position he's in.

2864
02:08:55,159 --> 02:08:57,560
Speaker 3: Fontechio would have brought the shooting, like, oh my god,

2865
02:08:57,680 --> 02:08:59,520
that the spacing would have been so awesome there and

2866
02:08:59,720 --> 02:09:03,399
decent enough defender Marshall is a fit, but like I

2867
02:09:03,439 --> 02:09:05,800
don't know, I'm I'm that I'll put it this way,

2868
02:09:05,920 --> 02:09:09,319
I'm not gonna let that like hypothetical really knock the

2869
02:09:09,399 --> 02:09:12,640
grade down much at all. Are are you you asked

2870
02:09:12,680 --> 02:09:14,600
the question, are are you kind of feeling more like

2871
02:09:14,840 --> 02:09:15,960
there's a missed opportunity?

2872
02:09:16,359 --> 02:09:18,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm out on the Isaaca Coro experience. I think

2873
02:09:18,560 --> 02:09:21,119
he'll be a very valuable regular season player, which to

2874
02:09:21,239 --> 02:09:23,920
be clear, is is valuable like eating up those minutes.

2875
02:09:23,960 --> 02:09:25,720
But it's just I haven't seen it, Like it's just

2876
02:09:25,760 --> 02:09:27,840
not gonna happen for him in the playoffs with this roster,

2877
02:09:28,239 --> 02:09:31,359
and I don't know who the name would have been. Again,

2878
02:09:31,439 --> 02:09:33,359
that would be the fair point. But like, honestly, I

2879
02:09:33,520 --> 02:09:36,039
go this route because I'm I would have rather had

2880
02:09:36,079 --> 02:09:37,520
Gary Trent Junior on this team.

2881
02:09:37,600 --> 02:09:39,720
Speaker 2: Or like Melton. You could have Melton only signed for

2882
02:09:39,800 --> 02:09:40,520
one year you could.

2883
02:09:40,399 --> 02:09:42,760
Speaker 1: Offer then you're like super like you're even smaller than

2884
02:09:42,800 --> 02:09:43,840
if you're a Garret Trent Junior.

2885
02:09:43,960 --> 02:09:46,079
Speaker 3: But I mean like with his shooting, like he's not

2886
02:09:46,199 --> 02:09:48,199
that much smaller than a Chorro, you could still throw

2887
02:09:48,319 --> 02:09:49,439
him at three's potentially.

2888
02:09:49,640 --> 02:09:50,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's you're.

2889
02:09:50,279 --> 02:09:53,439
Speaker 1: Probably better at guarding up than a Korro is too. Yeah,

2890
02:09:53,560 --> 02:09:57,199
so yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go. But I probably

2891
02:09:57,279 --> 02:09:59,399
value what they did with the extensions more than you

2892
02:09:59,479 --> 02:10:02,039
did specific the Allen and uh because the mobile ones,

2893
02:10:02,079 --> 02:10:04,399
whatever you could have. They're a team that it's I

2894
02:10:04,960 --> 02:10:07,119
like they didn't need to wait because they were never

2895
02:10:07,159 --> 02:10:09,079
gonna have cap space. So it's like they're even more

2896
02:10:09,159 --> 02:10:12,159
so than like Toronto and Orlando. But I look at

2897
02:10:12,199 --> 02:10:14,920
the the Donovan Mitchell and like, by the way, not

2898
02:10:14,960 --> 02:10:17,000
getting a player like Patrick William's got a player option,

2899
02:10:17,079 --> 02:10:20,239
Evan Mobley didn't. We're replicated to mention that, right, So uh,

2900
02:10:20,520 --> 02:10:22,840
I think a bee is probably right and we need

2901
02:10:22,880 --> 02:10:25,159
to see, like maybe there's a chance the Isaac korstuff

2902
02:10:25,159 --> 02:10:26,760
swings me because the deal is just so much of

2903
02:10:26,800 --> 02:10:29,199
a steal. But reports have them offering like I think

2904
02:10:29,239 --> 02:10:31,399
between eight and twelve million is all the different numbers

2905
02:10:31,439 --> 02:10:33,920
I've seen, So if that's the money he's coming back on,

2906
02:10:34,000 --> 02:10:36,039
if it's eight or something. But like, what if he

2907
02:10:36,119 --> 02:10:38,600
ends up just signing his qualifying offer. I don't know.

2908
02:10:38,840 --> 02:10:40,119
I don't think he's good enough to do that.

2909
02:10:40,279 --> 02:10:43,479
Speaker 3: But I would have preferred the road not traveled, which is, hey,

2910
02:10:43,600 --> 02:10:46,039
this is a good team that could theoretically offer you,

2911
02:10:46,159 --> 02:10:48,560
if not a starting spot, then a closing lineup spot,

2912
02:10:49,079 --> 02:10:50,479
and they had the mid level to spend.

2913
02:10:50,800 --> 02:10:52,279
Speaker 1: I feel like that was a missed opportunity.

2914
02:10:52,760 --> 02:10:55,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm tempted to go like B plus just because

2915
02:10:55,680 --> 02:10:59,239
I the Mitchell thing it was such a so divergent

2916
02:10:59,319 --> 02:11:01,199
for my expecations were in a good way.

2917
02:11:02,359 --> 02:11:04,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, it does. You do make a good point

2918
02:11:04,560 --> 02:11:05,840
about like that.

2919
02:11:06,000 --> 02:11:09,000
Speaker 3: Is a real rotation slash starting closing spot that you're

2920
02:11:09,079 --> 02:11:13,079
kind of like screwing up with with the a Koro situation.

2921
02:11:13,279 --> 02:11:15,920
So I think a B is fine for me. But

2922
02:11:16,039 --> 02:11:19,640
again I would just reiterate like the Mitchell extension was

2923
02:11:20,000 --> 02:11:21,520
very much for me, like I'll believe it when it

2924
02:11:21,760 --> 02:11:23,920
when the ink is dry, and like they did it.

2925
02:11:24,159 --> 02:11:26,720
You know, I don't think that was a foregone conclusion

2926
02:11:26,720 --> 02:11:27,000
at all.

2927
02:11:27,119 --> 02:11:28,199
Speaker 2: So good job by them.

2928
02:11:29,119 --> 02:11:34,079
Speaker 1: We are on too. Now your team, Okay, JB.

2929
02:11:34,159 --> 02:11:36,600
Speaker 3: Bicker, Steph, who are already going to grade them with

2930
02:11:36,680 --> 02:11:38,520
an A plus like we did last year, only to

2931
02:11:38,600 --> 02:11:40,600
have to you know, retreat back to would we have

2932
02:11:40,640 --> 02:11:40,920
to give me?

2933
02:11:41,119 --> 02:11:41,920
Speaker 1: I think we should just do.

2934
02:11:41,960 --> 02:11:42,479
Speaker 2: It every year.

2935
02:11:44,239 --> 02:11:46,039
Speaker 1: So JB.

2936
02:11:46,119 --> 02:11:48,399
Speaker 3: Bicker Staph who coached the team we just talked about,

2937
02:11:48,520 --> 02:11:51,199
now coaches this one. He replaces Monty Williams, who is

2938
02:11:51,239 --> 02:11:54,920
getting paid give me that another by the way, consecutive

2939
02:11:54,960 --> 02:11:57,399
all seasons giving out coaching contracts that are a half

2940
02:11:57,479 --> 02:12:01,399
decade or longer. That's you know, you gotta double down sometimes,

2941
02:12:02,000 --> 02:12:05,920
but yeah, money Williams just that that didn't work, and.

2942
02:12:06,000 --> 02:12:08,840
Speaker 2: So he correct. Correct decision, correct decision.

2943
02:12:08,920 --> 02:12:12,119
Speaker 3: We can agree to move on and not necessarily easy

2944
02:12:12,159 --> 02:12:13,920
in some ways, but not easy in others because they're

2945
02:12:13,920 --> 02:12:15,399
gonna py him a lot of money to not coach

2946
02:12:15,439 --> 02:12:15,760
the team.

2947
02:12:16,720 --> 02:12:18,079
Speaker 2: Tobias Harris got two years.

2948
02:12:17,960 --> 02:12:20,399
Speaker 3: Fifty two million, Kate Cunningham got that five year max

2949
02:12:21,439 --> 02:12:23,760
obviously has the escalators in it. They can get it

2950
02:12:23,840 --> 02:12:26,319
up to sixty nine point one the low end to

2951
02:12:26,439 --> 02:12:29,399
twenty four point two. So traded Quinton Grimes for Tim

2952
02:12:29,439 --> 02:12:32,319
Hardaway Junior, A twenty five second via Toronto, a twenty

2953
02:12:32,359 --> 02:12:35,720
eight second via Miami, and another twenty eight second coming

2954
02:12:35,760 --> 02:12:39,239
from either the Clippers or Charlotte, whichever is least less favorable.

2955
02:12:39,680 --> 02:12:44,039
Traded Cam Spencer for Wendell Moore and Bobi Clintman.

2956
02:12:45,239 --> 02:12:47,479
Speaker 2: Since their draft. Oh, Malik Beasley that was the other one.

2957
02:12:47,560 --> 02:12:50,279
Speaker 3: Got a one year six million dollar deal brought back

2958
02:12:50,279 --> 02:12:53,760
Simoni Fontechio just on an a plus everybody loves a deal.

2959
02:12:53,800 --> 02:12:56,880
Two year sixteen million got Paul Reid claimed him after

2960
02:12:56,960 --> 02:12:59,960
the Sixers waived him. Two year sixteen point seven million left.

2961
02:13:00,640 --> 02:13:02,239
Both of those are non guaranteed years.

2962
02:13:02,760 --> 02:13:03,640
Speaker 2: And let's see.

2963
02:13:03,760 --> 02:13:06,119
Speaker 3: Oh h James Wiseman gone got two years four point

2964
02:13:06,159 --> 02:13:09,960
eight from the Pacers. Declined Evan foury as team option

2965
02:13:10,039 --> 02:13:13,199
and declined Chimizy Metsu's team options. So Dan, the Detroit

2966
02:13:13,239 --> 02:13:17,119
Pistons spent a little money on vets, spent a little

2967
02:13:17,159 --> 02:13:17,960
to retain a vet.

2968
02:13:18,000 --> 02:13:20,920
Speaker 2: I think we both love and uh oh drafted uh

2969
02:13:21,000 --> 02:13:22,760
Ron Holland I don't I don't have that on here?

2970
02:13:23,479 --> 02:13:24,399
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sorry about that?

2971
02:13:24,840 --> 02:13:26,079
Speaker 2: What else? Yeah? So?

2972
02:13:26,560 --> 02:13:26,680
Speaker 3: Uh?

2973
02:13:28,000 --> 02:13:29,880
Speaker 2: What do we think about this? Is it? I mean?

2974
02:13:30,039 --> 02:13:30,199
Speaker 3: Do we?

2975
02:13:30,640 --> 02:13:32,159
Speaker 2: Is we guess? Spoiler?

2976
02:13:32,199 --> 02:13:35,399
Speaker 3: We probably aren't going a again here, but I don't know.

2977
02:13:35,479 --> 02:13:37,159
I kind of could talk myself into a lot of

2978
02:13:37,199 --> 02:13:37,600
this stuff.

2979
02:13:38,399 --> 02:13:40,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so, I'm like pulled in a bunch of

2980
02:13:40,920 --> 02:13:43,199
different directions. So I don't I think that they didn't

2981
02:13:43,199 --> 02:13:45,560
get enough for taking on Tim Hardaway Junior. Like the

2982
02:13:45,640 --> 02:13:47,479
fact that they gave up Quentin Grimes to me was

2983
02:13:47,520 --> 02:13:51,199
still bizarre. And you saw Reggie Jackson basically making a

2984
02:13:51,319 --> 02:13:53,760
third of what Tim Hardaway Junior makes went for the

2985
02:13:53,880 --> 02:13:59,279
same like pick equity cost like just wild. I think

2986
02:13:59,359 --> 02:14:01,079
Kate cunning him extension is fine, But this is another

2987
02:14:01,159 --> 02:14:02,560
situation where if we want to be fair and we

2988
02:14:02,640 --> 02:14:05,680
did this to Orlando like their team because of their flexibility,

2989
02:14:05,760 --> 02:14:07,960
Like that's something that definitely could have waited. Now, you

2990
02:14:08,039 --> 02:14:11,359
could also argue, unlike Orlando, they are just so barren

2991
02:14:11,840 --> 02:14:14,560
of options, that's let's just lock down the guy that

2992
02:14:14,760 --> 02:14:18,119
is our actual tent pole, cornerstone. So I understand the logic,

2993
02:14:18,159 --> 02:14:20,319
they're a little bit more. That's not I don't view

2994
02:14:20,319 --> 02:14:22,319
it as an above app no no player option though

2995
02:14:22,479 --> 02:14:25,560
Patrick Williams got one though, I mean I hadn't heard

2996
02:14:26,479 --> 02:14:29,680
uh at the Jamie Picker Steph Higre's fine. I like

2997
02:14:30,279 --> 02:14:32,439
the Molie Beasley and Simonti font Tachio deals are a

2998
02:14:32,479 --> 02:14:35,159
home run. I don't love the idea of claiming Paul

2999
02:14:35,199 --> 02:14:37,319
reid Off waivers because I just feel like, even if

3000
02:14:37,359 --> 02:14:40,520
it's slightly you've now decided that, oh maybe Isaiah Stewart

3001
02:14:40,560 --> 02:14:42,600
still will play some minutes at the four, and I

3002
02:14:42,680 --> 02:14:46,079
just don't want to see that anymore. But like, I

3003
02:14:46,159 --> 02:14:48,560
don't hate this. Like here's how I look at it.

3004
02:14:49,039 --> 02:14:51,000
Even if you don't love any of the deals or

3005
02:14:51,000 --> 02:14:54,600
the players, they have a very easy pathway to fielding

3006
02:14:55,119 --> 02:14:59,279
Caid Cunningham plus shooting in a bunch of core lineups. Now,

3007
02:14:59,600 --> 02:15:03,880
the problem is those core lineups really don't consist of

3008
02:15:04,000 --> 02:15:08,279
any of their other prospects, whether it's Ron Holland, Asar Thompson,

3009
02:15:08,800 --> 02:15:11,119
Jalen Duran. I mean, you don't expect that from a

3010
02:15:11,159 --> 02:15:13,039
big So it's really the jade and ivy of it all.

3011
02:15:13,079 --> 02:15:16,520
Plus Ron Holland and sar Thompson. Still, we want to

3012
02:15:16,520 --> 02:15:19,239
see where Kay Cunningham can be with stable spacing, and

3013
02:15:19,359 --> 02:15:21,399
even though the numbers don't support it, actually think he's

3014
02:15:21,399 --> 02:15:24,199
shot worse with some money font Taxio on the floor.

3015
02:15:24,880 --> 02:15:27,640
The spacing is just better for them now, and so

3016
02:15:27,760 --> 02:15:30,039
I think that they went about that process fine and

3017
02:15:30,880 --> 02:15:33,760
the Tobias Harris stuff. I think it's a potential to

3018
02:15:33,800 --> 02:15:36,000
be really good for them, and I'm gonna I'll continue

3019
02:15:36,000 --> 02:15:38,439
to cite her. But like Caitlin Cooper uses the term

3020
02:15:38,560 --> 02:15:40,760
sole tax to describe kind of a situation that's so

3021
02:15:40,920 --> 02:15:43,560
far gone it clouds how good a.

3022
02:15:43,600 --> 02:15:44,520
Speaker 2: Player can actually be.

3023
02:15:45,119 --> 02:15:47,560
Speaker 1: It felt like sole tax was at play with Tobias

3024
02:15:47,600 --> 02:15:49,640
Harrison Philly and so not expected him to be better.

3025
02:15:49,880 --> 02:15:51,640
And the reason you give him so much money is

3026
02:15:51,640 --> 02:15:54,159
because you're the Detroit Pistons, And that's how much money

3027
02:15:54,199 --> 02:15:55,880
you need to pay to get people who don't suck

3028
02:15:56,199 --> 02:15:58,640
to come play for your team. Do I think it's overkill?

3029
02:15:59,159 --> 02:16:01,640
I think it might be just because, like someone Techyo

3030
02:16:01,760 --> 02:16:04,720
got eight million, and is Tobias Harris right now worth

3031
02:16:04,840 --> 02:16:08,199
four times three times as much as maybe? Probably not?

3032
02:16:08,600 --> 02:16:11,880
Speaker 3: Is Tobias Harris objectively for sure a better player than

3033
02:16:11,920 --> 02:16:13,279
Simoney fontech Yo right now?

3034
02:16:13,560 --> 02:16:15,720
Speaker 2: Okay, Like, let's that's a conversation.

3035
02:16:17,000 --> 02:16:19,920
Speaker 1: He has more self creation skills probably still, which is

3036
02:16:19,960 --> 02:16:24,439
a big deal. But I don't I'm probably in the sea.

3037
02:16:25,159 --> 02:16:26,840
I mean, it's weird because I love.

3038
02:16:26,880 --> 02:16:29,479
Speaker 3: Absolutely love two of the deals that they signed, and

3039
02:16:29,600 --> 02:16:31,399
I actually by the way, and I'm not just like,

3040
02:16:32,159 --> 02:16:33,840
I'm not just glizzing or glazing.

3041
02:16:33,879 --> 02:16:36,200
Speaker 1: Excuse you, I'm not just glazing here, grant. I actually

3042
02:16:36,239 --> 02:16:38,639
really like Bobbie Clintman. Like it's just like, That's why

3043
02:16:38,680 --> 02:16:40,559
I also don't like the Paul Read edition, because I'd

3044
02:16:40,600 --> 02:16:42,200
like to see them just give Bobie Clintman a bunch

3045
02:16:42,239 --> 02:16:44,360
of minutes, like, hey, let's have another stretch big on

3046
02:16:44,440 --> 02:16:46,319
the floor. Maybe you argue that Paul Reid is a

3047
02:16:46,360 --> 02:16:47,799
stretch big. I don't know how I feel about that,

3048
02:16:47,959 --> 02:16:53,319
but I probably could go here's what I'll say. You

3049
02:16:53,319 --> 02:16:54,879
could probably tell me a new A C plus B

3050
02:16:55,040 --> 02:16:58,600
minus range. Because they had all this cap space and

3051
02:16:58,719 --> 02:17:00,440
people will worry that they were gonna do something that

3052
02:17:00,600 --> 02:17:04,079
actively hamstrung them for more than a year or two,

3053
02:17:04,399 --> 02:17:07,200
and they did not. They very clearly said this is

3054
02:17:07,360 --> 02:17:09,520
we're doing this on a year by year basis right now,

3055
02:17:09,559 --> 02:17:11,600
which is the right move when you have so many

3056
02:17:11,760 --> 02:17:13,520
unknowns on your roster.

3057
02:17:14,719 --> 02:17:19,680
Speaker 2: Couple things. The Bicker staff higher leaves me a little cold.

3058
02:17:20,120 --> 02:17:22,559
Speaker 3: I almost wish they'd sign someone that had not had

3059
02:17:23,040 --> 02:17:26,159
a head coaching job before as opposed to like a retread.

3060
02:17:26,239 --> 02:17:27,760
I don't know, I don't know why I feel that way.

3061
02:17:28,200 --> 02:17:31,280
It just maybe it would have signaled more of a

3062
02:17:32,159 --> 02:17:33,959
I don't know, a belief that like we really are

3063
02:17:34,079 --> 02:17:35,959
still kind of at ground zero with a lot of

3064
02:17:36,040 --> 02:17:38,959
this and that. I mean, I guess if you in

3065
02:17:39,079 --> 02:17:42,040
tandem with like veteran signings like Harris and bringing Fontechio

3066
02:17:42,120 --> 02:17:44,680
back and adding read, I guess like that is sort

3067
02:17:44,719 --> 02:17:47,319
of like a unified kind of way of thinking. It's

3068
02:17:47,440 --> 02:17:49,959
just like I know that we're gonna do another retread.

3069
02:17:50,000 --> 02:17:50,319
Speaker 2: I don't know.

3070
02:17:50,440 --> 02:17:54,079
Speaker 3: That didn't That didn't inspire me. And then again, the

3071
02:17:54,200 --> 02:17:56,719
Grimes Hardway trade is bizarre. I feel like you should

3072
02:17:56,760 --> 02:17:59,120
get those three seconds just for taking hard Away back

3073
02:17:59,159 --> 02:18:01,319
without giving anything up, Like I know that's not how

3074
02:18:01,399 --> 02:18:05,120
trades work, but Grimes, I think is actually I like

3075
02:18:05,319 --> 02:18:08,280
Quentin Grimes. I think he actually has like positive value

3076
02:18:08,360 --> 02:18:11,079
as opposed to a way to get a terrible contract

3077
02:18:11,159 --> 02:18:14,319
and then some seconds. So those are my knits to pick.

3078
02:18:15,040 --> 02:18:19,079
It's still like there's nothing fatal performed here. And to

3079
02:18:19,159 --> 02:18:22,159
your point about which I agree with, about all the

3080
02:18:22,239 --> 02:18:24,760
best prospects on this team like just don't seem to

3081
02:18:24,840 --> 02:18:29,000
be helpful to Kate cad Cunningham, Like that's a real issue,

3082
02:18:29,200 --> 02:18:31,799
but it's not one that they created this offseason, so

3083
02:18:31,920 --> 02:18:34,000
it's like they sort of did the best they could

3084
02:18:34,079 --> 02:18:36,600
to have, Like, well, here's the other way we play,

3085
02:18:36,879 --> 02:18:39,559
where you have veterans that can shoot around Caid, which

3086
02:18:39,639 --> 02:18:42,040
is at least because he's kind of the only.

3087
02:18:41,879 --> 02:18:44,719
Speaker 2: Guy you're semi sure about. They seem very sure.

3088
02:18:44,760 --> 02:18:47,000
Speaker 3: They gave him the max, Like you got to give

3089
02:18:47,040 --> 02:18:49,639
this guy at least a couple of looks that aren't

3090
02:18:49,840 --> 02:18:51,639
just like, well here's the star Thompson and j and

3091
02:18:51,680 --> 02:18:54,760
Ivy like not spacing and it's impossible for you to function.

3092
02:18:55,399 --> 02:18:58,520
So I don't know, I can't get too inspired to

3093
02:18:58,639 --> 02:19:02,399
go you want to go above average? You feel like, like,

3094
02:19:02,639 --> 02:19:05,200
what what's the number one thing that nudges this above

3095
02:19:05,319 --> 02:19:06,200
a flat sea for you?

3096
02:19:07,159 --> 02:19:10,600
Speaker 1: I the Molite Beasley deals and Simoni Fontachio deals are

3097
02:19:10,600 --> 02:19:13,239
frigging steals. And I guess you could say the Malik

3098
02:19:13,319 --> 02:19:16,319
Beasley deal is it's one year, so they're not gonna

3099
02:19:16,319 --> 02:19:18,239
have bird rights on him, So like how much how

3100
02:19:18,319 --> 02:19:21,200
valuable is that? I guess that's because if you're the Pistons,

3101
02:19:21,239 --> 02:19:22,559
part of value might be, well, if we could have

3102
02:19:22,600 --> 02:19:25,319
gotten him for multiple years. They're also have you know,

3103
02:19:25,479 --> 02:19:28,719
their financial outlook is okay, like we still might just

3104
02:19:28,799 --> 02:19:32,360
have the money to sign him anyway, So I don't know.

3105
02:19:32,479 --> 02:19:34,239
I so like what do you want to go to?

3106
02:19:34,479 --> 02:19:35,239
Like what is your.

3107
02:19:37,280 --> 02:19:40,200
Speaker 3: I just keep getting stuck on a flat sea because

3108
02:19:40,200 --> 02:19:43,079
there's enough like the Beasley and Fontecio signings are positive,

3109
02:19:43,079 --> 02:19:46,040
as the Harris is whatever. Don't love the bicker Staff signing.

3110
02:19:46,079 --> 02:19:48,719
You know what, maybe a C plus because our guy

3111
02:19:48,840 --> 02:19:52,079
John Wasserman had Ron Holland as his number one overall

3112
02:19:52,159 --> 02:19:55,280
draft prospect. If I forgot to include him and even

3113
02:19:55,360 --> 02:19:58,319
are like we have a doc for anyone listening that's

3114
02:19:58,360 --> 02:19:59,239
like off, but.

3115
02:19:59,399 --> 02:20:01,239
Speaker 1: Not on the screen. I don't have, Like that's an

3116
02:20:01,319 --> 02:20:04,840
egregious Well I'm one person, so like everyone forgive me.

3117
02:20:04,879 --> 02:20:06,879
And we did factor him in eventually, but it's just

3118
02:20:07,360 --> 02:20:09,239
leaving him off. He's so bad that I didn't even

3119
02:20:09,280 --> 02:20:10,360
include him on there out there.

3120
02:20:10,680 --> 02:20:13,600
Speaker 3: It's like a weirdly he's a weirdly forget like as

3121
02:20:13,639 --> 02:20:15,799
you you know, you try to keep trying just commit

3122
02:20:15,840 --> 02:20:18,360
to memory, like the top however many picks and it's like.

3123
02:20:18,399 --> 02:20:20,639
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the pistons got around Holland, and I.

3124
02:20:20,680 --> 02:20:23,799
Speaker 3: Think to their credit, he is like based on what

3125
02:20:23,959 --> 02:20:27,120
his projected weaknesses are as a shooter particularly, it's like, man,

3126
02:20:27,200 --> 02:20:29,879
that's just doubling down on like a real deficiency or

3127
02:20:29,959 --> 02:20:32,959
roster and your young players already have. But if you

3128
02:20:33,000 --> 02:20:35,920
think he's the best player available, like and and certainly

3129
02:20:36,319 --> 02:20:38,639
someone much smarter than us about the draft did think that,

3130
02:20:39,479 --> 02:20:43,280
I'm good with it. I prefer that to them being

3131
02:20:43,399 --> 02:20:45,440
like we got a draft Dalton connect or we got

3132
02:20:45,520 --> 02:20:47,959
to reach for someone like that just to go because

3133
02:20:48,040 --> 02:20:49,000
that's that's what we need.

3134
02:20:49,159 --> 02:20:50,559
Speaker 2: It's like, no, you need everything.

3135
02:20:50,760 --> 02:20:53,280
Speaker 3: So I think maybe I'll go to a C plus

3136
02:20:53,360 --> 02:20:56,200
on the on the like clear thinking that led to

3137
02:20:56,239 --> 02:20:57,959
the Holland pick or maybe not clear, but like the

3138
02:20:58,040 --> 02:21:00,680
boldness I guess of taking Holland, which is funny too,

3139
02:21:00,719 --> 02:21:03,680
because I was gonna kind of concede that, like we

3140
02:21:03,760 --> 02:21:05,399
could go to a sea because I didn't feel like

3141
02:21:05,479 --> 02:21:09,440
super strongly about my C plus. Well, I'll be the

3142
02:21:09,520 --> 02:21:12,559
one I keep I keep being influenced by you, so

3143
02:21:12,639 --> 02:21:14,639
I'm I'm gonna mandate we go C plus.

3144
02:21:15,639 --> 02:21:18,680
Speaker 1: So but you literally just went with my grade. Yeah

3145
02:21:19,120 --> 02:21:22,760
that's right side you. How's that for having a backbone.

3146
02:21:23,520 --> 02:21:26,879
We are on to your Indiana Pacers. That's a team

3147
02:21:26,920 --> 02:21:29,479
that I think you'll feel take about Clay me ownership

3148
02:21:29,520 --> 02:21:31,600
of They are my team to go through though. So

3149
02:21:31,639 --> 02:21:34,200
They drafted Tristan Newton at number forty nine. He signed

3150
02:21:34,200 --> 02:21:36,120
a two way. Drafted in ri K Freeman at number

3151
02:21:36,159 --> 02:21:39,680
fifty signed a two way. They traded Juan Nunez number

3152
02:21:39,719 --> 02:21:41,680
thirty six and cash for Johnny Furfey, who is the

3153
02:21:41,760 --> 02:21:44,000
number thirty five pick. He signed a four year, eight

3154
02:21:44,040 --> 02:21:46,120
point six million dollar contract, the first two years of

3155
02:21:46,159 --> 02:21:49,440
which are guaranteed. I actually like Johnny Furfey, by the way.

3156
02:21:49,440 --> 02:21:51,600
I think he could do some stuff for them. Pascal

3157
02:21:51,680 --> 02:21:53,639
Siakam four years, one hundred and eighty nine point nine

3158
02:21:53,639 --> 02:21:57,040
million max. No options. OBI Toppin four years fifty eight

3159
02:21:57,120 --> 02:22:00,239
million plus two million and unlikely incentives that can get

3160
02:22:00,280 --> 02:22:03,479
to sixty no options on that deal extended. Andrew Nemhard

3161
02:22:03,920 --> 02:22:05,920
got three years with at the eight point seven million.

3162
02:22:06,159 --> 02:22:09,239
He's now signed through twenty twenty seven. Twenty eight, They

3163
02:22:09,319 --> 02:22:12,360
signed James Wiseman for two years basically at the minimum

3164
02:22:12,639 --> 02:22:15,159
five hundred thousand dollars is only guaranteed for the first

3165
02:22:15,239 --> 02:22:19,040
year James Johnson back on the minimum. Notable exits Jalen

3166
02:22:19,079 --> 02:22:21,840
Smith got twenty seven million from the Chicago Bulls, and

3167
02:22:21,840 --> 02:22:25,399
then Doug McDermott remains unsigned. How do you feeling about

3168
02:22:25,399 --> 02:22:26,319
their offseason, Grant.

3169
02:22:26,600 --> 02:22:30,879
Speaker 3: So, Johnny Furfey, Notwithstanding, this is about the Siacam deal,

3170
02:22:31,319 --> 02:22:33,399
the top end deal, and the nem Hard deal, Right,

3171
02:22:33,440 --> 02:22:36,479
I think those are our three like real like points

3172
02:22:36,520 --> 02:22:40,520
to consider here. Siakam, that's exactly what he was gonna get,

3173
02:22:40,600 --> 02:22:43,079
what he should have got like that, that was you know,

3174
02:22:43,200 --> 02:22:45,079
the four years one to eighty nine, didn't get an option.

3175
02:22:45,200 --> 02:22:47,639
That's that is the correct amount to pay him. Nobody

3176
02:22:47,799 --> 02:22:49,680
was gonna beat that. The Pacers didn't have to go

3177
02:22:50,200 --> 02:22:54,479
higher to keep him. So I think that's that's above average.

3178
02:22:54,520 --> 02:22:57,360
I guess just because they could have gone longer, right,

3179
02:22:57,440 --> 02:22:58,799
they could have given him that fifth year.

3180
02:22:58,879 --> 02:22:59,719
Speaker 2: Do I have I solve?

3181
02:22:59,840 --> 02:23:03,040
Speaker 3: Like my memory is yeah, yeah. So I think that's

3182
02:23:03,079 --> 02:23:04,879
a small win, even though I think a lot of

3183
02:23:04,879 --> 02:23:07,399
people would say that's not a contract, it's going to age. Well,

3184
02:23:08,200 --> 02:23:11,680
the top and deal I just objectively don't like very

3185
02:23:11,760 --> 02:23:14,280
much because I don't know one who was going to

3186
02:23:14,360 --> 02:23:17,760
beat that number. And two the whole, like, well, what

3187
02:23:17,840 --> 02:23:21,799
are we doing with Jaris Walker? Is he getting in

3188
02:23:21,840 --> 02:23:23,520
the way of that? What else could we have used

3189
02:23:23,559 --> 02:23:27,120
that money on? There's some real path not taking options there.

3190
02:23:27,280 --> 02:23:29,239
I'm fine with the nm hard deal. I really like him.

3191
02:23:29,879 --> 02:23:32,239
You could say that, like, well, his playoff performance is

3192
02:23:32,280 --> 02:23:34,159
what got him this, and that's partly true. Was just

3193
02:23:34,200 --> 02:23:36,239
better in the playoffs than he was during the regular season.

3194
02:23:36,639 --> 02:23:38,879
I think he's a really good fit next to Tyres Halburton.

3195
02:23:39,879 --> 02:23:45,040
But again, if you're worried about Benedict Matheren, no Hard marginalizes.

3196
02:23:44,479 --> 02:23:45,319
Speaker 2: Him to some extent.

3197
02:23:45,440 --> 02:23:50,319
Speaker 3: So I think, ultimately, well, let me ask you, what

3198
02:23:50,360 --> 02:23:51,840
do you think about the top end deal, because that's

3199
02:23:51,840 --> 02:23:53,559
the one I feel like maybe I'm not in the

3200
02:23:53,639 --> 02:23:54,200
majority on.

3201
02:23:54,280 --> 02:23:55,719
Speaker 2: Of being like, I just don't think that was the

3202
02:23:55,799 --> 02:23:56,319
right choice.

3203
02:23:56,719 --> 02:23:58,680
Speaker 1: I don't understand it, Like he was fine as a

3204
02:23:58,719 --> 02:24:00,920
floor runner and spacer for them, but who was giving

3205
02:24:01,000 --> 02:24:02,559
Like you gave him more than the mid level. Who

3206
02:24:02,639 --> 02:24:06,639
was giving him that? And I just you also complicated

3207
02:24:07,280 --> 02:24:10,840
like a pathway to finding Jaris Walker a regular role

3208
02:24:10,920 --> 02:24:14,000
unless your plan is to eventually move on from Miles

3209
02:24:14,120 --> 02:24:16,600
turn in which case, like that doesn't that just means

3210
02:24:16,600 --> 02:24:18,879
that Oham's gonna play more five and so that's how

3211
02:24:18,920 --> 02:24:21,159
we open up time for Jaris Walker. I guess you

3212
02:24:21,239 --> 02:24:25,479
can view, okay, Jarvis Walker can be developed as a wing.

3213
02:24:25,719 --> 02:24:27,479
I just don't view him as a wing at either

3214
02:24:27,719 --> 02:24:31,760
end of the floor really, So that's just really weird.

3215
02:24:32,120 --> 02:24:34,120
I just I need to know, like, what was the

3216
02:24:34,399 --> 02:24:36,799
market for Obi toppin that you felt that this was

3217
02:24:36,879 --> 02:24:39,959
the contract you needed to give him. So that's a

3218
02:24:40,000 --> 02:24:42,559
below water deal for me, without question. I think the

3219
02:24:42,600 --> 02:24:46,120
Siakam and mhar deals are like home runs, so and

3220
02:24:46,200 --> 02:24:48,440
the James Wiseman Flyers like kind of fine, but it

3221
02:24:48,520 --> 02:24:51,079
also makes you wonder, Okay, so how do they feel

3222
02:24:51,079 --> 02:24:53,520
about Isaiah Jackson? And like, I guess we're never like

3223
02:24:53,799 --> 02:24:56,239
so we just decided that Siakam and topping her four's

3224
02:24:56,319 --> 02:25:00,520
and I just I'm very I feel good about the

3225
02:25:00,559 --> 02:25:03,280
Indiana Pacers, but it's this like the secondary part of

3226
02:25:03,319 --> 02:25:08,520
their rosters all sorts of it's not logjammy ambiguous, like

3227
02:25:08,719 --> 02:25:10,799
because you know the players, but it's like, well, I

3228
02:25:10,840 --> 02:25:12,680
don't really know what the vision is for how they

3229
02:25:12,760 --> 02:25:15,239
kind of want to play outside of their core lineups.

3230
02:25:15,280 --> 02:25:18,360
And you mentioned the Ben mcmatherin stuff already, Andrew Nemhart

3231
02:25:18,399 --> 02:25:20,879
is just better. So like that's fun, Like that's this

3232
02:25:21,000 --> 02:25:22,479
is still a home run deal for me. But you

3233
02:25:22,600 --> 02:25:25,600
haven't you did nothing this offseason. I'll say, like, let's

3234
02:25:25,639 --> 02:25:27,719
not frame it through the Andrew Nemhart extension. You didn't

3235
02:25:27,719 --> 02:25:31,479
do anything in this off season that streamlines his path

3236
02:25:31,760 --> 02:25:33,040
or fit on this team.

3237
02:25:34,040 --> 02:25:39,479
Speaker 3: So to summarize, topping Bad, Nemhard good, Siakam just what

3238
02:25:39,680 --> 02:25:43,079
it should have been. And then the Topen and Nemhard

3239
02:25:43,159 --> 02:25:47,280
deals come with the added potential complication of like you're

3240
02:25:47,440 --> 02:25:50,120
kind of, you know, slotting guys in over the top

3241
02:25:50,159 --> 02:25:53,879
of players you've invested like real draft equity in. It

3242
02:25:54,000 --> 02:25:56,639
sounds like we're angling towards a blow average grade. Does

3243
02:25:57,760 --> 02:25:58,319
that feel right?

3244
02:25:58,680 --> 02:26:01,399
Speaker 1: Buckle up because we're about to go even more below average. Yeah.

3245
02:26:01,520 --> 02:26:04,799
They're a team where the road not travel bothers me.

3246
02:26:05,520 --> 02:26:09,799
They clearly needed like another wing who could defend, and

3247
02:26:10,120 --> 02:26:12,600
they could have used the non tax payer mid level

3248
02:26:13,040 --> 02:26:15,920
even Simoi Fontakion. I'm just gonna mention Simooni Fontachyo Naji

3249
02:26:15,959 --> 02:26:18,799
Marshall eight times over for this team. Fontakian doesn't fit

3250
02:26:18,840 --> 02:26:22,319
the defensive billing of course, but like why was that

3251
02:26:22,600 --> 02:26:25,319
not on the table for them? It was we had

3252
02:26:25,360 --> 02:26:27,120
to bring back Top, Like you could have even done

3253
02:26:27,200 --> 02:26:29,399
something like had Obi Top and.

3254
02:26:29,440 --> 02:26:32,840
Speaker 3: Signed for twelve million, like as a starting salary, you

3255
02:26:32,920 --> 02:26:35,239
could have in theory like had a little bit more

3256
02:26:35,319 --> 02:26:37,079
wiggle room to use something.

3257
02:26:37,360 --> 02:26:39,840
Speaker 1: And like I guess this team views is is the

3258
02:26:39,959 --> 02:26:41,840
tax a complete no go? Did they want to stay

3259
02:26:41,879 --> 02:26:44,159
under it? They have about they're actually into the tax.

3260
02:26:44,239 --> 02:26:45,920
I think a little bit because the tax is what

3261
02:26:46,120 --> 02:26:50,120
one's seventy this year? The tax this year is one

3262
02:26:51,040 --> 02:26:52,879
one seventy one. I think they're at like one seventy

3263
02:26:52,920 --> 02:26:55,840
two right now, if I'm not mistaken or around that area.

3264
02:26:56,239 --> 02:27:00,799
So I just I don't know. I just feel like

3265
02:27:01,840 --> 02:27:03,600
I would have preferred to have you if you're asking

3266
02:27:03,600 --> 02:27:05,520
me whether I would have used the non taxpayer mid

3267
02:27:05,680 --> 02:27:08,520
level on somebody like also didn't even have to be

3268
02:27:08,559 --> 02:27:10,440
the full thing. This is a team that definitely should

3269
02:27:10,440 --> 02:27:12,840
have signed Heywood high Smith that like you could have

3270
02:27:12,879 --> 02:27:15,239
given more money, like Kyle.

3271
02:27:15,079 --> 02:27:17,879
Speaker 3: Anderson, like you, I mean, like just you, if you've

3272
02:27:17,920 --> 02:27:20,120
got spacing at the four and the five, assuming you're

3273
02:27:20,159 --> 02:27:21,760
playing him, you probably want to play him at the

3274
02:27:21,760 --> 02:27:23,959
four but like if you you can get away with

3275
02:27:24,040 --> 02:27:26,559
Kyle Anderson and benefit from the things he's good at,

3276
02:27:26,680 --> 02:27:30,159
so much more easy, so much easier if you have

3277
02:27:30,239 --> 02:27:32,159
Miles Turner, or if you could play the accum at

3278
02:27:32,200 --> 02:27:34,120
the fire like there's just a lot of it's just

3279
02:27:34,200 --> 02:27:36,799
to get off the Naji Marshall, Simoni Fontechio, like there's

3280
02:27:36,840 --> 02:27:38,760
a there's a decent number of other names that just

3281
02:27:38,879 --> 02:27:40,559
make They could have.

3282
02:27:40,559 --> 02:27:42,680
Speaker 2: Been a Caleb Martin one hundred percent.

3283
02:27:42,879 --> 02:27:45,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, they could have also been like Derek Jones Junior.

3284
02:27:45,319 --> 02:27:47,760
I wouldn't have hated him. Imagine Derk Jones Junior in

3285
02:27:47,840 --> 02:27:49,440
the offense with the Pacers team.

3286
02:27:49,600 --> 02:27:52,440
Speaker 3: Well, especially as a as a comp for Toppin, Like

3287
02:27:52,799 --> 02:27:54,920
Derek Jones Junior does like a lot of the top

3288
02:27:55,040 --> 02:27:59,040
and stuff, Like nobody runs as relentlessly and and consistently

3289
02:27:59,079 --> 02:28:02,079
as Topen does. But Jones is awesome at that gives you.

3290
02:28:02,360 --> 02:28:04,239
I mean, I trust his shooting as much as I

3291
02:28:04,280 --> 02:28:06,120
trust Toppins, I guess, which is to say, like not

3292
02:28:06,239 --> 02:28:08,079
a ton but like semi ticy.

3293
02:28:08,159 --> 02:28:09,280
Speaker 2: I think I don't know.

3294
02:28:09,399 --> 02:28:11,840
Speaker 3: I mean, neither of them is like a five alarm

3295
02:28:11,920 --> 02:28:13,879
fire getting closed out, And I think Jones was like

3296
02:28:13,920 --> 02:28:16,600
in the thirty three ish thirty four ish percent range

3297
02:28:16,680 --> 02:28:19,159
last year. But but Jones is just a I mean,

3298
02:28:19,239 --> 02:28:22,200
defensively they are. There's no conversation like Derek Jones Jr.

3299
02:28:22,799 --> 02:28:25,079
Was like really good and spend a lot of time

3300
02:28:25,120 --> 02:28:26,879
guarding the best guys top and you gotta hide.

3301
02:28:27,120 --> 02:28:28,600
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of options.

3302
02:28:29,040 --> 02:28:31,000
Speaker 3: It really is coming down to the top end contract,

3303
02:28:31,040 --> 02:28:34,079
which feels like a little too laser focus. But I

3304
02:28:34,079 --> 02:28:36,079
don't know if we're gonna we're gonna knock it. There's

3305
02:28:36,079 --> 02:28:38,200
a lot of reasons that it wasn't a very good choice.

3306
02:28:38,840 --> 02:28:40,719
Speaker 1: Is this a D plus offseason or is it a

3307
02:28:40,799 --> 02:28:43,040
C minus? Those are I think when I'm like, it's not,

3308
02:28:43,239 --> 02:28:46,559
it's below A have the net heart extension is also

3309
02:28:46,600 --> 02:28:49,280
well though, if we want to be these people like

3310
02:28:49,879 --> 02:28:51,680
would they benefited from being able to go out the

3311
02:28:51,719 --> 02:28:53,920
extra year on the netmartenescisions like why is it just

3312
02:28:54,000 --> 02:28:56,520
the three? I like, well, did you not want to

3313
02:28:56,600 --> 02:28:58,399
sign that? Did they not want to offer it.

3314
02:28:58,920 --> 02:29:01,520
Speaker 3: I'm more receptive to that knock on the NM hard

3315
02:29:01,559 --> 02:29:03,719
deal than I am to like, oh well, and Matherin's

3316
02:29:03,760 --> 02:29:05,440
not gonna get I just I just don't believe in

3317
02:29:05,520 --> 02:29:07,920
Matherin as like a starter, So oh yeah, I don't.

3318
02:29:08,159 --> 02:29:10,159
Speaker 1: I actually don't. I'm being honest.

3319
02:29:10,239 --> 02:29:14,479
Speaker 3: I don't demerit them for not opening like a bigger

3320
02:29:14,600 --> 02:29:16,920
role for mather I agree.

3321
02:29:16,920 --> 02:29:19,159
Speaker 2: I think Matherin is a six man. I think that's

3322
02:29:19,239 --> 02:29:20,120
like what he's supposed to be.

3323
02:29:20,639 --> 02:29:23,639
Speaker 3: And so so that especially with Haliburton, like him and Haliburton,

3324
02:29:23,680 --> 02:29:26,440
I just like, you're the defense is just too bad

3325
02:29:26,559 --> 02:29:28,440
for those two to play big minutes together.

3326
02:29:29,360 --> 02:29:32,959
Speaker 2: So getting them hard just makes sense. Is it really

3327
02:29:33,000 --> 02:29:33,559
a D plus?

3328
02:29:33,719 --> 02:29:35,639
Speaker 3: Because I think we both would say, like we like

3329
02:29:35,799 --> 02:29:38,600
the Pacers, we think they're gonna be good. I just

3330
02:29:39,079 --> 02:29:42,600
and like, I don't know, we keep saying, let's just

3331
02:29:42,680 --> 02:29:45,719
do it, let's go D plus the topics, Like I'm high.

3332
02:29:45,520 --> 02:29:47,680
Speaker 1: On the Pacers, but like even the Sakam deal, Like

3333
02:29:47,799 --> 02:29:51,440
what did they win If that's a that's a C,

3334
02:29:51,799 --> 02:29:53,000
that's a sea. You didn't have to go to a

3335
02:29:53,079 --> 02:29:55,399
fifth year, Okay, But like when you're framing it that

3336
02:29:55,559 --> 02:29:58,479
way that we didn't have to pay this player that

3337
02:29:58,639 --> 02:30:01,520
we want for the act, you'd rather be like with

3338
02:30:01,639 --> 02:30:05,000
nem Hard, where's no you want that extra year type deal?

3339
02:30:05,319 --> 02:30:07,760
So I just it has to be a D plus

3340
02:30:08,000 --> 02:30:10,280
because they it's not even that they had the recent

3341
02:30:10,360 --> 02:30:12,479
theyty right now in this moment, if they were willing

3342
02:30:12,479 --> 02:30:14,719
to pay the tax, they have the resources to do something.

3343
02:30:14,840 --> 02:30:19,399
So that's where I'm at with them. Still. Honestly they're

3344
02:30:19,440 --> 02:30:22,079
going to be a really good team. But yeah, D plus,

3345
02:30:22,879 --> 02:30:25,959
move on to Grant. This is your team. They are

3346
02:30:26,000 --> 02:30:28,600
the Milwaukee Bucks, which they did so little as you

3347
02:30:28,639 --> 02:30:30,520
can see on the screen, and I figured, why not

3348
02:30:30,600 --> 02:30:31,959
take up some of that space right there.

3349
02:30:32,079 --> 02:30:33,920
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what that Yanna's face is trying to

3350
02:30:33,959 --> 02:30:36,000
convey it. Well, let's let's get to it. So they

3351
02:30:36,079 --> 02:30:36,600
drafted A. J.

3352
02:30:36,760 --> 02:30:39,440
Speaker 3: Johnson at number twenty three, drafted Tyler Smith at thirty three.

3353
02:30:40,120 --> 02:30:40,239
Speaker 1: Uh.

3354
02:30:41,280 --> 02:30:45,600
Speaker 3: Some phenomenal minimum maneuverings, but we will not overrate minimums.

3355
02:30:45,920 --> 02:30:48,600
Delon Wright got a one year minimum. Torreon Prince got

3356
02:30:48,719 --> 02:30:51,639
a one your minimum. Gary Trent Junior that's the standout,

3357
02:30:51,639 --> 02:30:52,559
got a one year minimum.

3358
02:30:52,719 --> 02:30:54,000
Speaker 1: Feel free to overrate that.

3359
02:30:54,559 --> 02:30:56,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, i'man that one. That's that one. I might need to.

3360
02:30:57,319 --> 02:31:01,079
Speaker 3: Uh signed Stanley and Moody and Anzish said Schnicks that

3361
02:31:01,200 --> 02:31:02,440
was my first pass at that name.

3362
02:31:02,559 --> 02:31:04,239
Speaker 2: Pretty good to two ways.

3363
02:31:04,719 --> 02:31:08,239
Speaker 3: Uh. Malik Beasley gone six million from Detroit. Patrick Beverly

3364
02:31:08,799 --> 02:31:12,639
probably gone forever signed overseas, Jay Crowder remains unsigned, the

3365
02:31:12,760 --> 02:31:18,639
Nasis unsigned uh on screen. I just don't think that's

3366
02:31:18,719 --> 02:31:21,600
gonna remain the case for very long. I don't know, though,

3367
02:31:21,600 --> 02:31:23,680
there's a roster crunch that the Bucks have to figure out.

3368
02:31:24,040 --> 02:31:29,360
Speaker 1: So Dan, if they signed Tyler Smith, that's fourteen right for.

3369
02:31:29,440 --> 02:31:31,200
Speaker 2: Them, I think, So I don't.

3370
02:31:31,319 --> 02:31:35,799
Speaker 3: I mean, they'll find a way, They'll make him like

3371
02:31:35,840 --> 02:31:40,120
a special assistant or something that he'll be around. Really

3372
02:31:40,280 --> 02:31:42,600
just talking about minimums because I don't I don't think

3373
02:31:42,639 --> 02:31:44,719
we need to do the A. J. Johnson and Tyler

3374
02:31:44,760 --> 02:31:46,559
Smith of it all to really affect this grade. So

3375
02:31:47,559 --> 02:31:49,559
I mean, you know, I know we started out and

3376
02:31:49,639 --> 02:31:52,399
I keep harping on like you can't overvalue minimums, but

3377
02:31:52,520 --> 02:31:56,040
like Gary Trent's gonna start right and play a huge role,

3378
02:31:56,600 --> 02:32:01,719
and they're paying at least, you know, by Gary Trent's evaluation,

3379
02:32:02,200 --> 02:32:05,319
like one twelfth of what he's actually worth.

3380
02:32:05,920 --> 02:32:08,079
Speaker 2: So uh, that's a pretty good start.

3381
02:32:08,120 --> 02:32:10,200
Speaker 3: And this is a team with zero flexibility, just like

3382
02:32:10,280 --> 02:32:12,719
could not really do almost anything.

3383
02:32:15,239 --> 02:32:18,639
Speaker 1: You say not to over rate minimum signings. But since

3384
02:32:18,680 --> 02:32:23,040
twenty twenty, oh there are three players downing over thirty

3385
02:32:23,040 --> 02:32:25,760
eight percent of their triples on more than seven attempts

3386
02:32:25,799 --> 02:32:28,239
per game and posting a steel rate north of two

3387
02:32:28,760 --> 02:32:33,200
Lonzo Ball who's played just ninety games amid knee issues,

3388
02:32:33,559 --> 02:32:36,280
Paul George and Gary Trent Jr.

3389
02:32:36,559 --> 02:32:38,280
Speaker 2: Well, why didn't they sign Paul George Dan?

3390
02:32:39,040 --> 02:32:39,159
Speaker 1: Oh?

3391
02:32:39,239 --> 02:32:41,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, d That's what Kendrick Persians basically said

3392
02:32:41,920 --> 02:32:44,399
he was disappointed in the Bucks offseason, right, And I

3393
02:32:44,479 --> 02:32:46,239
agree with him. I would have simply just signed O

3394
02:32:46,360 --> 02:32:49,959
G and Paul George and maybe honestly, like I know

3395
02:32:50,120 --> 02:32:51,760
that they have Brook Lopez on this tree, but why

3396
02:32:51,840 --> 02:32:53,000
not just trade for Jokic?

3397
02:32:53,360 --> 02:32:55,559
Speaker 2: Right? Because that would have been an interesting song, not

3398
02:32:55,680 --> 02:32:56,440
that complicated.

3399
02:32:57,920 --> 02:33:00,959
Speaker 3: They didn't have any moves to make and got three

3400
02:33:01,040 --> 02:33:04,000
guys I think at least two of which Right and

3401
02:33:04,159 --> 02:33:08,760
Trent are gonna play real roles. And I mean this,

3402
02:33:09,520 --> 02:33:12,239
this is more than they should have been able to do, right.

3403
02:33:12,360 --> 02:33:14,680
I think I feel like that's the So this can't

3404
02:33:14,719 --> 02:33:17,079
be in the sea range. I would say, although, like

3405
02:33:17,440 --> 02:33:19,319
you know, I'm just gonna say, like, do we credit

3406
02:33:19,399 --> 02:33:21,719
them for Gary Trent just like falling into their laps? Yeah,

3407
02:33:21,719 --> 02:33:23,799
a little bit, because he could assigned for the minimum anywhere.

3408
02:33:24,680 --> 02:33:26,920
Speaker 2: So what we're not. I can't go.

3409
02:33:27,120 --> 02:33:28,760
Speaker 3: I can't go in a unless you have more to

3410
02:33:28,799 --> 02:33:30,159
talk about it. I think we got to probably just

3411
02:33:30,239 --> 02:33:31,040
jump into the grade.

3412
02:33:31,479 --> 02:33:34,600
Speaker 1: No, So I I still don't even after talking with

3413
02:33:34,680 --> 02:33:36,319
ty Wendish and looking into him a little bit, I

3414
02:33:36,440 --> 02:33:38,879
kind of understand the theory of what a J. Johnson

3415
02:33:39,000 --> 02:33:41,280
is supposed to be in the NBA. I don't understand

3416
02:33:41,319 --> 02:33:43,159
the theory of that in the context.

3417
02:33:42,840 --> 02:33:45,479
Speaker 2: Of the Bucks because a long way away, right.

3418
02:33:46,000 --> 02:33:48,399
Speaker 1: Right, And also just Keyshawn George went with a pick

3419
02:33:48,520 --> 02:33:50,559
right after and you know, I'm high on him and like,

3420
02:33:50,680 --> 02:33:53,559
oh a plug and play wing, Like why not just

3421
02:33:53,680 --> 02:33:57,920
go that route? So it's not it's just something I

3422
02:33:58,479 --> 02:34:00,799
I probably would have rather like traded down or just

3423
02:34:00,879 --> 02:34:04,639
like again taking Kishan George. So I'm that's like something

3424
02:34:04,680 --> 02:34:06,639
I'm prepared to dig them for. And I know that's

3425
02:34:06,680 --> 02:34:09,719
a stupid thing to harp on, but when you have

3426
02:34:09,799 --> 02:34:11,719
assembled a roster that actually has a ton of youth

3427
02:34:11,760 --> 02:34:13,239
on it, when you look at like kind of just

3428
02:34:13,520 --> 02:34:15,399
you know, Marjohon bo Champ is still here and we

3429
02:34:15,479 --> 02:34:19,639
have Andre Jackson and Chris Livingston, like take the right swings,

3430
02:34:19,920 --> 02:34:21,879
and I think or at least take guys that I

3431
02:34:21,959 --> 02:34:23,959
think fit the context of your team right now, and

3432
02:34:23,959 --> 02:34:26,559
I think Kishan George would have kind of at least

3433
02:34:26,559 --> 02:34:28,159
filled the latter part of that, even if you think

3434
02:34:28,200 --> 02:34:31,280
Tyler excuse me, A. J. Johnson has the bigger outside.

3435
02:34:31,319 --> 02:34:34,399
But I think you have to love this offseason from

3436
02:34:34,440 --> 02:34:38,920
them overall, because I honestly would say, like between Prince

3437
02:34:39,799 --> 02:34:44,200
Right and Trent, that they legitimately added like three of

3438
02:34:44,280 --> 02:34:46,479
their top eight players this summer.

3439
02:34:46,639 --> 02:34:47,159
Speaker 2: For sure too.

3440
02:34:47,399 --> 02:34:49,840
Speaker 3: I'm not sure about Prince, but for sure the other two.

3441
02:34:49,920 --> 02:34:50,639
Speaker 2: I really do believe.

3442
02:34:50,719 --> 02:34:54,000
Speaker 1: Honestly, he fits the like more of an archetypal hole

3443
02:34:54,079 --> 02:34:56,639
that they have than Delon Wright does at this point.

3444
02:34:56,959 --> 02:34:58,120
So it's like, I know that they need the point

3445
02:34:58,120 --> 02:35:01,000
of attack defense from Delon Right, but position they need

3446
02:35:01,120 --> 02:35:03,719
more of what Prince like in fury can do. And

3447
02:35:03,879 --> 02:35:06,559
also they're not gonna play him or lean on him

3448
02:35:06,600 --> 02:35:09,239
the way that the Lakers did. Sure like the Lakers

3449
02:35:09,319 --> 02:35:12,159
just didn't have any wings of which to speak. And

3450
02:35:12,239 --> 02:35:14,040
so even like when you think about the Chris Middleton

3451
02:35:14,079 --> 02:35:15,920
injury of it all, like I love the idea of

3452
02:35:15,959 --> 02:35:19,000
Torrey and Prince here or I should say, ankle surgeries

3453
02:35:19,120 --> 02:35:21,399
of it all. Excuse me? So where are you at

3454
02:35:21,440 --> 02:35:22,040
with the grade?

3455
02:35:23,239 --> 02:35:26,680
Speaker 3: I think on Trent alone, it's it's it's like a

3456
02:35:26,760 --> 02:35:29,639
B plus just because, like you have, the books had

3457
02:35:29,719 --> 02:35:32,319
no business getting someone that good with the resources they had,

3458
02:35:32,399 --> 02:35:34,760
so it's just like it's not even close. Like and

3459
02:35:34,840 --> 02:35:36,600
then to get a couple more guys, like we could

3460
02:35:36,639 --> 02:35:38,719
disagree with where they right or Prince matters more, but

3461
02:35:38,840 --> 02:35:41,559
like they both they both matter, they're both gonna play,

3462
02:35:42,040 --> 02:35:44,680
and they're both like you could see them being positive

3463
02:35:44,719 --> 02:35:46,520
value players as long as they don't have to, as

3464
02:35:46,559 --> 02:35:48,319
long as the lifts aren't too heavy for them, which

3465
02:35:48,319 --> 02:35:50,680
I don't think they should be unless Middleton just you know,

3466
02:35:50,879 --> 02:35:53,879
can't play anymore and Pat Conninson is not playable, on

3467
02:35:54,040 --> 02:35:56,680
and on. But like it's it's a B plus for

3468
02:35:56,799 --> 02:35:59,840
me just just because of Trent, Like that's an insane

3469
02:36:00,360 --> 02:36:01,079
value signing.

3470
02:36:01,799 --> 02:36:03,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like you could, honestly, you could probably

3471
02:36:03,799 --> 02:36:05,959
go as high as an A here if you don't

3472
02:36:06,000 --> 02:36:08,399
have any strong feelings about their draft. Shouldn't the grade

3473
02:36:08,479 --> 02:36:08,799
just be an A?

3474
02:36:10,200 --> 02:36:12,040
Speaker 2: Maybe? I don't know, it just feels so high to

3475
02:36:12,120 --> 02:36:13,280
base it on like one.

3476
02:36:13,399 --> 02:36:16,360
Speaker 1: Well, what else are they supposed to do? Like, what

3477
02:36:16,559 --> 02:36:17,959
is the no I'm asking?

3478
02:36:18,159 --> 02:36:20,600
Speaker 2: I know, I just like I guess I'm uncomfortable.

3479
02:36:21,120 --> 02:36:23,920
Speaker 3: Well, I'm going against my overvalue minimum signing things if

3480
02:36:23,959 --> 02:36:25,719
I go any higher than it be plus trying to

3481
02:36:25,719 --> 02:36:26,559
stay consistent here.

3482
02:36:27,120 --> 02:36:29,280
Speaker 1: It's relative to their situation where they could only have

3483
02:36:29,399 --> 02:36:31,959
signed minimums though, So you're judging this against the other

3484
02:36:32,079 --> 02:36:32,959
minimum signings.

3485
02:36:33,120 --> 02:36:35,079
Speaker 2: That's true, that's true. I'm trying to.

3486
02:36:36,639 --> 02:36:38,319
Speaker 1: They're getting a B plus from me because I think

3487
02:36:38,319 --> 02:36:40,319
that they should have just taken Keyshawn George or even

3488
02:36:40,399 --> 02:36:42,120
just moved to this pick. And you could, by the way,

3489
02:36:42,600 --> 02:36:44,959
that would be the was there anything out there for

3490
02:36:45,079 --> 02:36:47,920
pat content plus number twenty three before it was a salary?

3491
02:36:48,239 --> 02:36:49,600
Could that have gotten you io?

3492
02:36:50,719 --> 02:36:51,639
Speaker 2: I don't think so.

3493
02:36:52,040 --> 02:36:54,600
Speaker 1: I'm not factoring that in so I probably.

3494
02:36:54,280 --> 02:36:56,159
Speaker 3: Would have still, but I would have taken somebody else

3495
02:36:56,479 --> 02:36:58,040
or I would honestly, I would have traded down.

3496
02:36:58,079 --> 02:37:00,879
Speaker 1: And I kind of believe that A. J. Johnson would

3497
02:37:00,879 --> 02:37:02,639
have been there after Tyler Smith maybe.

3498
02:37:02,600 --> 02:37:05,680
Speaker 2: Maybe so maybe so, so we have the same grade.

3499
02:37:05,719 --> 02:37:08,479
But you're trying to talk me up because.

3500
02:37:08,399 --> 02:37:10,200
Speaker 1: Because I might, it makes me feel like I need

3501
02:37:10,280 --> 02:37:10,879
to go down.

3502
02:37:11,319 --> 02:37:13,680
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, no, I think it just is.

3503
02:37:13,799 --> 02:37:16,360
Speaker 3: I think a B plus is just the correct grade

3504
02:37:16,399 --> 02:37:19,399
here now. No, I think that's where I'm at because

3505
02:37:19,399 --> 02:37:19,879
I I I.

3506
02:37:21,680 --> 02:37:22,479
Speaker 2: Do take the point.

3507
02:37:22,600 --> 02:37:25,280
Speaker 1: I wanted to explain why they're not getting an A from.

3508
02:37:25,200 --> 02:37:30,479
Speaker 3: You because I'm scared of repeating my Phoenix Sun's mistake.

3509
02:37:32,000 --> 02:37:37,319
Speaker 1: Right, But again, this is like we relative even relative

3510
02:37:37,440 --> 02:37:40,479
to the options that were at the foot of Phoenix

3511
02:37:40,559 --> 02:37:43,479
last year with the minimums, things they didn't get a

3512
02:37:43,520 --> 02:37:45,319
lot of, They didn't get a good enough traction out

3513
02:37:45,319 --> 02:37:45,559
of them.

3514
02:37:46,479 --> 02:37:47,680
Speaker 2: Here here's why it's not an A.

3515
02:37:48,280 --> 02:37:52,120
Speaker 3: I think it's not like you had to do any

3516
02:37:52,280 --> 02:37:54,559
like there was no I mean, they couldn't do this,

3517
02:37:54,760 --> 02:37:57,319
but it's like there was no like artful maneuvering.

3518
02:37:57,479 --> 02:37:59,239
Speaker 2: There was no like, oh if we you know, let's

3519
02:37:59,319 --> 02:38:00,959
use this portion of this roster exception.

3520
02:38:01,040 --> 02:38:03,760
Speaker 3: Now, like there it's their own fault that they had

3521
02:38:03,879 --> 02:38:06,680
so few resources and so few options, so like they

3522
02:38:06,719 --> 02:38:09,600
didn't really have a chance to do anything spectacular.

3523
02:38:10,040 --> 02:38:12,159
Speaker 2: But like, I can't. You can't give an A just

3524
02:38:12,200 --> 02:38:14,360
because you've got Gary Trent on the minimum. I like it,

3525
02:38:14,520 --> 02:38:15,920
I love it. I can't.

3526
02:38:16,319 --> 02:38:17,879
Speaker 3: That can't be the only reason you get in a

3527
02:38:17,959 --> 02:38:20,399
I don't know why. Maybe that's inconsistent logically.

3528
02:38:20,319 --> 02:38:22,319
Speaker 1: It seems like it. It's isn't logic to me. I'm

3529
02:38:22,360 --> 02:38:24,040
not gonna at least then say like you would have

3530
02:38:24,120 --> 02:38:26,639
taken someone else in the because what you're saying about

3531
02:38:26,639 --> 02:38:29,159
the second apron there, they didn't pivot out of it.

3532
02:38:29,479 --> 02:38:32,440
That's true, and you we just complimented the Celtics for

3533
02:38:32,559 --> 02:38:35,479
doing so. And by the way, it'd be different if

3534
02:38:35,559 --> 02:38:38,360
like they were like they spent on the wrong players

3535
02:38:38,879 --> 02:38:40,840
the reasons they're in the second apron. Go ahead and

3536
02:38:40,920 --> 02:38:42,799
point to me and tell me, like, well, that deal

3537
02:38:42,879 --> 02:38:43,920
you shouldn't be on the books.

3538
02:38:45,120 --> 02:38:45,680
Speaker 2: That's true.

3539
02:38:45,760 --> 02:38:49,559
Speaker 3: Well, we kind of relitigated the Dame trade on our regrades,

3540
02:38:49,600 --> 02:38:51,399
but but that that would be the only one where

3541
02:38:51,399 --> 02:38:54,360
you're like, oh, Drew Holliday would have been slightly cheaper. Yeah, okay,

3542
02:38:54,399 --> 02:38:56,760
you know what the good that's you raised a new

3543
02:38:56,879 --> 02:38:59,399
argument that I am receptive to, which is that a

3544
02:38:59,440 --> 02:39:01,600
lot of teams in this position try to get cheaper

3545
02:39:01,840 --> 02:39:04,000
and try to and try and like are not focused

3546
02:39:04,040 --> 02:39:05,000
on adding.

3547
02:39:05,319 --> 02:39:07,719
Speaker 2: So let's go. You have you have talked me up

3548
02:39:07,760 --> 02:39:09,879
to an A minus, but you're at a B plus.

3549
02:39:09,959 --> 02:39:10,959
So now I don't know what we do.

3550
02:39:13,639 --> 02:39:15,879
Speaker 1: We'll go to an A minus because mine is based

3551
02:39:15,959 --> 02:39:17,680
on like, I actually have a strong thought about a

3552
02:39:17,760 --> 02:39:20,000
draft if we have not watched played out on the

3553
02:39:20,079 --> 02:39:21,920
court at all, For all we know, like keithon George

3554
02:39:21,959 --> 02:39:23,959
will get playing kind of Washington and could suck. So

3555
02:39:24,159 --> 02:39:26,879
I'm just like, I just think in terms of asset management,

3556
02:39:27,000 --> 02:39:29,520
you could have gotten a J. Johnson much lower. But

3557
02:39:29,799 --> 02:39:33,479
maybe I'm wrong, So we'll go a minus. So you're welcome, grant.

3558
02:39:33,559 --> 02:39:37,479
Speaker 2: Like Jesus Christ, so much arm twisting to get up

3559
02:39:37,520 --> 02:39:38,200
at half grade.

3560
02:39:38,719 --> 02:39:40,920
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, though, is we now need to re

3561
02:39:41,079 --> 02:39:45,559
record this entire two hour, forty minute podcast because two

3562
02:39:45,639 --> 02:39:48,159
minutes ago Luke Travers has signed a two way deal

3563
02:39:48,200 --> 02:39:49,879
with the Cavs and I think that changes everything.

3564
02:39:50,040 --> 02:39:53,159
Speaker 2: So LUs A plus or F minus one of the two.

3565
02:39:53,280 --> 02:39:54,159
We'll have to decide.

3566
02:39:54,959 --> 02:39:56,879
Speaker 1: This was long. Are you ready to take us out

3567
02:39:56,920 --> 02:39:57,920
of here? Sure?

3568
02:39:58,520 --> 02:40:00,520
Speaker 2: Uh man, Okay, So let's see.

3569
02:40:00,600 --> 02:40:03,159
Speaker 3: I give this podcast an A because we did the

3570
02:40:03,239 --> 02:40:05,200
most we could with the resources we had, which is

3571
02:40:05,239 --> 02:40:06,520
our two brains, and we.

3572
02:40:06,639 --> 02:40:10,719
Speaker 1: Agree right on brand of totally and coherent.

3573
02:40:11,680 --> 02:40:12,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough.

3574
02:40:12,799 --> 02:40:15,680
Speaker 3: Thanks everybody for listening for watching for enjoying Dan's wonderfully

3575
02:40:15,760 --> 02:40:19,520
produced graphics with Gianni's faces in some cases, if you

3576
02:40:19,600 --> 02:40:23,280
have not done so already, rate, review, subscribe, comment on YouTube.

3577
02:40:23,399 --> 02:40:26,040
Make sure make sure you're subscribed on YouTube and you're

3578
02:40:26,079 --> 02:40:27,760
checking out all the shorts and all the clips and

3579
02:40:27,799 --> 02:40:30,000
all the full length podcast episodes, all that coulds up.

3580
02:40:30,639 --> 02:40:34,879
Join our discord, check out our merch tell your friends,

3581
02:40:34,959 --> 02:40:37,280
tell your enemies, and make sure, as we always do,

3582
02:40:37,520 --> 02:40:39,639
that you give a shout out to Frank Milkina and

3583
02:40:39,680 --> 02:40:41,000
you apologize to hear it out