Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos, I am Dana Valley coming
at you with my certified fantabulous do it yourself Extraordinariy
keeps on offsplit data on his children's sporting performances. Co
host mister Grant Hughes, It is time. We're almost in
September to get to our NBA off season grades. We
begin with the Eastern Conference this time. A little East
Coast bias on this podcast, which we don't have too much.
We will get into the grading criteria of course before
we get started, just to remind everybody how we go
about this. And there's gonna be a little bit of
a new plot twist this year, as proposed by my
certified fantabulists coast mister Grant Hughes. Who that's where we start, Grant,
how the heck are you?
Speaker 2: Hey? Man?
Speaker 3: It's always nice to greet each other after we've been
talking for forty five minutes, as if we're just now
seeing each.
Speaker 1: Other for per month? Would listeners and watchers pay to
have those conversations recorded and disseminated to that? I'd like
to know is it millions or is it tens of millions?
Speaker 2: How much will they pay to not have to hear that?
I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna start a Patreon and whereas we're gonna
you want less of our content, like pay us to
stop putting out content.
Speaker 3: I feel like that's just called extortion or something like.
It's just like if you want this to stop, pay us.
Uh so you're doing well, then, yeah, doing great, Happy
to be here. Happy to move on from regrading to
just grading because that's easier.
Speaker 2: Right, This is gonna be no problem.
Speaker 3: Actually, this is gonna be difficult because I don't know
how how you feel. But usually so we're now, I
mean getting close to like two months removed from when
a lot of this stuff happened. A lot of these
transactions occurred, and I think it's good in that we
get some distance, but it's also like, oh, right, the.
Speaker 2: Hawks did X, Y and Z. I forgot about that.
Speaker 3: You know, we're sort of having to look at these
with you know, at a little bit of a remove,
which is gonna kind of I don't know, maybe it'll
make us just more objective about it because we won't
be caught up in you know, what the narrative was
for that week or so in early July, but we'll see.
Speaker 1: I think Orlando Magic fans will be happy that, like
I had some time to sit on their offseason, and
I think I think the time and space is good.
And then also it makes it easier for regrades because
I feel like we don't have to correct one. The
graphics are like the you know, our master doc that
has more information we're using. That makes it easier for
us to update, which why we keep we keep doing
this later and later every year, Like the past like
three or four years, we've done it later and later.
So next year we're gonna do it in October, I
think right just.
Speaker 3: I think we should just do it in like January.
That would make our grades really good.
Speaker 1: So as a reminder of our grading system, C is average.
It is not a bad grade. I don't want to
hear that you're mad that your team got to see
And if you do agree, could you politely in the
comments or the discord, the link to which is in
the podcast and YouTube description, come convey your thoughts. I
can't promise I'll respond because we're fucking busy, but we
will read it probably and take it in and sometimes
we will respond. C is not a bad grade. And
any to emphasize that we are also grading teams relative
to their each individual situation, so the resources at their disposal.
It matters that, you know, you can't just sit there
and say, if I were the Denver Nuggets, I simply
would have just signed ogn Andobi and traded for Paul
George myself, Like you don't. We don't get to evaluate
things in those terms. The salary cap situation of it
all matters, And as Grant as instilled in me now
and I really don't think draft picks can factor in
a ton during the initial go around unless you have
if you have strong opinions on that player. Again, this
is subjective, that's the entire point of this exercise. But
as Grant pointed out when we were doing regrades, like
the level of decision making involved in each selection matters.
And so this year, as opposed to last year, the
Spurs didn't have a choice at number one with Wemby,
like it was just the it was. You know, they
don't get as much credit for doing it, but it
had it gone bust, that would have provided them cover
because everyone would have taken him. Now in Atlanta's situation,
talking about Zachary resische is open for debate because that
was not the consensus number one pick amongst everyone. Did
I miss anything, Grant.
Speaker 3: No, I think I think that's a good way to
look at it, and I would just I've been thinking
more and more about what do we do with these
with you know, because part of the offseason and a
huge part in a lot of seasons and for a
lot of teams is the draft pick. I think the
only time I'm gonna get like, really been out of
shape or celebratory of draft moves in general is if like,
and maybe this will come up on this exercise, and
maybe it'll come up on the West when we do
it later, but like if you had the opportunity to
move up or move down, or like there was just
some sort of broader, I don't know, set of decisions
to make around the draft that might have benefited whatever
your team's like specific goals were. Maybe that's where you
can sort of like, well, I disagree with the direction
they took in the draft, as opposed to like this
player is better than that guy, and I know that
because and then crickets because we don't know that yet
and there's just no information, so like I'm gonna really
try to reorient some of my draft.
Speaker 2: I don't know thoughts.
Speaker 3: I guess around sort of the broader team building side
of it, just cause like, I don't know how many
times are we going to go down the road of saying, well,
this was the wrong pick and then like just based
on what you know at this point, it's too early
to make any real.
Speaker 2: Definitive statements about a singular player.
Speaker 1: And the other thing too, this is so far field
from what you were saying, like doing nothing, Like we're
not grading just the non transactions to where it's like, oh,
a team didn't break it up, so we give them
a good grade necessarily, like if a team's in the
second apron and continue to spend, that's part of the grade.
But like the Timberwolves in a vacuum don't get a
ton of credit because they didn't trade Karl Anthony Towns
this offseason, what it would have been objectively damaging to
do so, because there wasn't a Karl Anthony trade out
there that would have made them better. And the other
thing that you suggested, which I really like, So we'll
give our grades at the end, We're gonna try and
come to a consensus podcast grade. Though maybe there'll be
situations where because Grant and I everyone knows we disagree
all that time. We're never on the same page with anything.
Maybe there will be teams that we can't reach a
consensus on, but I really and that's all Grant here,
we will reach it. We'll try to reach a consensus
on what's the podcast cast grade? What can we haggle over,
so that'll be a different type of discussion. And finally,
before I throw it back to Grant's even has anything
to add, I will put for anyone watching on YouTube
the meat and potatoes of the off season up on screen.
But like we're generally not if you if your team's
two Ways aren't on there, those things get moved around
so much and they're never, almost never going to factor
in to your grade a ton. So if you see
it on screen and you're mad that we didn't include
that your team signed these three guys to two Ways,
I honestly don't care, but I didn't want to get
out in front of it like that. We have a
doc with all the transactions, but I'm trying to fit
it on screen. There is one team though, that automatically
gets an f because they made me do two slides
for this one grant and as you know I told
you this before or even record, I wasn't happy about it.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: No, the one way to really hurt your grade is
to force Dan to do more work than is necessary.
Speaker 2: So one other thing.
Speaker 3: Maybe this is just like just kind of a concept
to FLAG because I do think in our regrades we
got some good feedback just about like I think we
need to sort of And this is hard because the
teams don't just say like, here's what we're trying to do, right, like,
here are our goals for They.
Speaker 1: Tell me you don't get those what they do.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not on that. I'm not c seed on that.
Speaker 1: There's me like fifty thousand feet of absolute dog shit
and then WOJ and shams and right right right.
Speaker 2: Right, So you're privy to all this.
Speaker 3: But for me, I think I'm going to try to
just understand, like, Okay, what was the intention for this
offseason as far as like are we.
Speaker 2: Stripping it down?
Speaker 3: Are we trying to make a top four seed out
of this roster? Are we trying to make the plant
like that kind of thing? And then I'm going to
try to be like in a sort of a case
by case try to evaluate like how well they did
that right, So it's it's a little bit it's kind
of what you're saying about, like, oh, second Apron teams
that kept spending, that's good, or like a second Apron
team that cuts costs because they're cheap, that's bad.
Speaker 2: Like that. You know, that's an extreme example.
Speaker 3: If you're in the second Apron, you probably should try
to get out unless you're a title contender, But you
get the idea, right, Like, I'm trying to be more
like grading on a scale of like because every team's
trying to do something different to some it's.
Speaker 1: The situation specific matters. But you also want to be
like uniform in the sense that if there are two
teams that are on similar timelines, have similar aims, but
they go about it in varying paths, like you want
to hold them to the same bar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair. It's just it's like grading
the Wizards is different than grading the Bucks.
Speaker 1: Like that's just you know, there will invariably be people
in the comments that are just like, well, how does
like so and so get an A and the other
one got to see what we will be breaking this
up by division with time stamps as we we don't
tend to do, but we did it by division last year.
But we're doing the whole Eastern Conference at this point
and grant unless you have any questions, qualms, other comments,
I think we can get started.
Speaker 2: Nope, that's plenty of throat clearing.
Speaker 3: I'll run down the Hawks here had the number one
pick in the draft, took Zachary resa Che. That's like
pretty clearly their most consequential draft pick in a while
since probably since Trey. The other biggest move traded Jonte Murray,
got back Dyson Daniels, Larry Nance, e J Lidell, Cody
Zeller got a twenty twenty five first via the Lakers
and the less favorable of Milwaukee or New Orleans twenty
seven first.
Speaker 2: There's top four protection on that. Those are the two
big ones.
Speaker 3: Picked up Garrison Matthews two million dollar team option. Traded
aj Griffin to Houston for cash and a second rounder.
That's I mean, resigned Vie Crazie for four years ten million.
Only one of those is guaranteed. I think that's the
big that those are the big transactions.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, I know we said we're going to factor
in two ways, but getting Dominic Barlowe is an absolute
I was.
Speaker 3: Gonna say when in the intro, when you were saying
I'm not gonna we're not gonna list every little thing,
and I always was gonna chime in and say, like,
so you may not hear Dominic Barlow's name specifically.
Speaker 2: Turns out you will, we do.
Speaker 3: Dominic Barlow is one of those guys that we like
romanticize as a two player. So I can't believe that
the Spurs were just like like, we're not even a yeah,
but uh, the Hawk's get a plus because they have not.
Speaker 2: Go ahead.
Speaker 1: What's what is the more pivotable move to you for
this franchise? Is it the Dejonte Murray trade or the
decision to go with Zachary Receichet at number one unless
you feel very strongly about sending aj Griffin to Houston.
Speaker 2: For yeah, I was gonna go the option. See No,
I mean it's so I guess we may as well
get into it.
Speaker 3: Like this draft was so you know, just uninspiring at
the top that like I don't I mean, I guess
I guess I would put it this way if the
reces shape pick does end up being really consequential, that's
a great outcome because it will probably mean that he,
oh my god, he did deserve to be number one.
Speaker 2: That like, how did we not see it? Like that
kind of thing, like, oh, he's Nick Batoon plus you
know going forward something like that, which even that feels
like a low bar for a number one overall pick.
But I suppose it's that just because the variance involved.
I wanted to ask you.
Speaker 3: Though, though, and you can give me your thoughts on
which is more consequential, Like the de Jontay Murray trade.
Is there a way to frame it positively for Atlanta
in terms of its grade this offseason or is it
just you know, you.
Speaker 2: The first trade didn't work.
Speaker 3: You had to take back what you could get and
move him on, so therefore that was a failure. This
trade is bad, Like can you spin it positively? Like
they balance the roster? Like how do you view it?
Speaker 1: So I think you need to start with you throw
out what they gave up to get to Jontay Murray
because now we're years in the past, removed from that,
and you could ding them for continuing to keep a
flawed partnership with Trey Young together, I think, and then
from there you have to go, do you think they
got the best return that was one out there and
or two that's best for their franchise in its direction?
And I think that point is more interesting to me
to where they really went with a future focused return
here even though they don't control their next three draft picks,
And so I find that curious, and I would be
willing to bet substantial amounts of money if I was
a gambler in any sense of the word, that they
could have gotten more first round equity from another team,
but that they valued Dice and Daniels that highly, which
when you look at the backup point guard situation what
they need defensively, I kind of get, but like he
also has a right now almost needs the ball on
offense unless you're gonna have them, you know, create it
ton a space rim or use him as a screener
or something. So I viewed this honestly as kind of
a net neutral move, Like if we were grading moves
in a vacuum, I'm not gonna give them a failing
grade because it didn't work out with de Jontay Murray. Again,
that move is separate, but Like, if I'm the Hawks,
I know that they didn't want brandon Ingram, But like,
for where you're at in your like franchise trajectory, because
of the draft obligations you do. Oh, from the Dejante
Murray trade, I probably would have liked to have seen, Oh,
there's another immediate impact player here other than Larry Nance
who's injured all the time and is even gonna play
with Janeen Johnson, Akonguin and Capella in town. And so
that's the thing I'm struggling with because look two first,
and Dyson Daniels, let's just call him another first, I
don't think he's a lottery prospect at this point, but like,
even if you thought he was, all right, let's just
call him a top number ten, the equival of number
ten in this year's draft or something. I think the
value in a vacuum is fine. And also Larry Nance
Junior is good. I don't know. And you mentioned the
word rebalance the roster. I do believe it did that,
but I don't know if it made is Atlanta's roster
better as a result.
Speaker 3: See, I think you I think you have to say
now that Daniels fit is really intriguing just because he's
like he's basically everything Trey Young isn't and so like
oh on the on the thinking of like, well that
then that works, right, they like they you know, Daniels
is the defender and the passer and is just trying
to make the connective play and Trey Young is the scorer.
Speaker 2: Who doesn't you know, like it, who doesn't defend. I
don't know. That's why I use the word balance. It's
hard for me to.
Speaker 3: Argue that the Hawk's roster is better today than it
was with the Jontay Murray, which is like, I mean,
maybe maybe it is, but I think I think they
gave up.
Speaker 2: There's no debate that they gave up.
Speaker 3: The best player in the trade and their situation, as
you pointed out, where they don't really benefit from losing
so because they don't have their draft picks, so like
it seems they're just in such a weird spot like
and oh, by the way, they got the number one pick.
It's such a weird thing, because it does they should
be trying to win more games and get better because
they're you know, they have several veterans. Trey Young is
on a max deal, and I think that the Murray
trade makes them worse this coming season just in terms
of like total talent. So I'm really struggling with.
Speaker 2: The idea that like, yeah, that that.
Speaker 3: Backcourt mix didn't work. It didn't seem like something that
had much of a future. But at the same time,
I don't know that the new setup is like, oh, they're, oh,
they're gonna win five more games.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 3: So I'm struggling with like the very the last thing
we talked about of like we're got to try to
figure out what Atlanta's aims are here and then how
does the Murray trade specifically fit into those?
Speaker 2: And I just I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: There's I guess there's two interesting things. Is one, let's
start here. Do they deserve credit though, like, let's just
what we don't know what them Like, let's just say
Brandon Ingram was like the best player they could have
acquired in any de Jontey Murray trade that was established.
Do they deserve credit for kind of not going that
route because this is a team that's very tax conscious
brand Ingram's up for a new deal. I also don't
love that fit with Trey Young in the first place,
and so to bet on Dice and Daniels, which but
to my this would be the second point of it.
I didn't realize I was gonna touch on it. But like,
if anything, I do think you've amped up the Trey
Young minutes when he's on the court, because they were
a net plus when Trey Young played without Janta Murray
last year, and the most used lineup in that scenario
only played about three hundred possessions. Trey Young, Bogdanovich, Sadik
Bai Jallen Johnson, and a Kung Wu. If you just
throw I know he does a little, it makes your
spacing a little wonky. But you throw Dyson Daniels into
the Sadik bay spot, that lineup that I just mentioned
was a plus fourteen point five points per one hundred possessions.
You've probably jacked up the defense of that group without
damaging the offense too much. Because if you believe in
Johnson shooting, we of course believe in what Bogdanovic can
do on our away from the ball. So it feels
like and then just the optionality of having Larry Nanz
Junior in the fold, it feels like with this trade
they have bolstered the time or let's say optimize the
time that Trey Young will play. But now the question becomes, Okay,
what did they do during the ten to twenty minutes
per game just depending on the night that he is
not on the court, And that feels like it's a
little bit riskier. And then I do think, obviously this
gets into the Zacharisische of it all. Now you are
relying on a ton of young guys. It feels like
Janeen Johnson is not a finished product, even though he
was in the most improved conversation last year. But even
more so, it's oh, like Resa, Shanye, Dyson Daniels are
gonna have real roles on this team, and unless you
just believe that your point guard minutes are gonna be
entirely soaked up by Dyson Daniels and Trey Young, and
maybe if you want to use Bogdanovics as the primary playmaker,
you're also kind of like, good, I'm assuming gonna be
somewhat reliant on Kobe Buffkin to where he wasn't even
like in your rear view mirror last year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe so, I think as I'm sort of trying
to steer towards a grade here.
Speaker 2: I guess I would.
Speaker 3: I would say I'm not sure that that the team
is actually better, but definitely there are more options. There's
a little more flexibility. You've got a couple incoming firsts,
you have smaller contracts, you have Daniels projectable like starter upside.
Maybe Larry Nance is not nothing like, that's someone you
could flip or use if you end up trading Capella
or whatever.
Speaker 2: So I don't think they're better.
Speaker 3: I think they have some more options, which is like,
that's a real positive when you're in a weird situation
where you're you know, you're probably a playing team and
you could pivot one way or the other. Maybe that
wasn't as plausible with last year's roster. I don't know,
are you kind of on the same page or are
you thinking like this. I guess I'm telegraphing like I'm
in the mid. I'm not going real high or real
low here. Grade wise, Yeah, I think there.
Speaker 1: I do think there's a chance that they wind up
being much better than they were last season, but I'm
not sure if that has to do with the bar
off which they're working.
Speaker 3: Well, and I'm not sure that has much to do
with the trade necessarily. It might just be Tray as healthier,
Johnson takes a step forward to Kong Wu, same thing,
like that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: The other stuff that I'm kind of struggling with here
is I mean, like they just gave up aj Griffin
at the nadea of his value and I still think
that dude could play. So that's something I'm gonna give
them a demerit for another demerit. By the way, the
fact we haven't talked about this yet, they're just sitting
on the bi annual on the mid level because they're
so tax content there. I think they're about five million
under the first apron that. I mean, we're always gonna
digging teams for being cheap, but like that just lends
itself to the obfuscation of their direction, where it's like,
what are we doing here? And yes, you can use
the mid level as a trade exception, but we all
know that the Hawks aren't gonna do that, Like that's
just not gonna happen, Like they're not going to add
to this team like that. Now, you could also fight
back by saying, well, who are they supposed to sign?
Could have given Naji Marshall more money than the Mavericks did. Like,
there's the name right there that would have been a
perfect fit for this roster. So I just I don't
hate the I also, how do you feel about the
decision to go to with Reci's Shay. We haven't even
gotten really into that, like with relative to the other
options at their disposal.
Speaker 3: I mean, the Read Shepherd of it all is hanging
out there, but they were just not going to draft
Read Shepherd.
Speaker 2: I just don't.
Speaker 3: I don't think And now you want to draft the
best player, and I don't know. It seems apparent now
that like if you were redoing the draft based on
summer league, based on whatever, you might be more or
inclined to.
Speaker 2: Say, oh, Reach Shepard was the best player available, like
a team with Trey Jung.
Speaker 3: I just I can understand not doing that, And from
what we know of Sarro, it seems like that would
have been at least as risky.
Speaker 2: So like, I don't really know what to do with it.
I would give I would.
Speaker 3: Give the drafting of Resa sche in isolation a see,
like just because yeah, we don't know enough. Yeah, it
seems although if you're grading's specifically against the decision not
to go with Alex Sharr.
Speaker 1: Now basing this off summer League, it looks great. I
do think though, following the addition of Diyce and Daniels
I like Zachary Resische more than had they gone with
Aron Holland or Stefan, like someone with more drum shooting concerns.
Not that any of those guys were ever in the
I mean even Sar himself, not that any of them
are really in the running for the number one pick,
and the idea of someone I do think it takes
a little bit of gall to draft someone that no
one's really painted him as Starr upside that he's viewed
as he's gonna be plugging play. He'll hustle in transition
and hopefully he hits his corner threes, and he'll work
on defense, and he might never be elite at any
of those things. And so I underst I would understand
the impetus to go with the bigger swing. And I'm
not a guy who drafts for fit, but like, if
you went with the more well rounded prospect, do you
think can contribute immediately. We just talked about how they
need to have immediate aspirations, and so I'm fine with it.
I'd be in the sea range just because I don't
think we know enough. Yeah, And my only other thought
with them is I do like bringing back crazy because
it feels like they now have a bunch of just
at least tryhards and worker bees on defense now like
larrd Ns, Junior Dyson, Daniels Crache, like Jalen Johnson's kind
of malleable.
Speaker 3: You can get better on that end of the floor,
for sure. So in a Kung Wu, of course, I
feel like I'm gonna end up. I don't know what, like,
want to get to a grade? Do you have anything
else to add? No, no, no, I was just gonna say, like,
my I feel like it's a cop out, but it
just feel it feels like a C to me, And
I'm I'm willing to be talked into like C plus
or C minus based on because the thing he brought
is just the constant like, let's not pay the tax,
Like I just I don't know that's it feels like
that's so unambitious that it warrants like a little bit
of a knock. But should you pay the tax for
a team that might top out at like forty two wins.
I don't know, I maybe probably not so in the
same area, like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you have to look at this and say,
where was the above average move by them?
Speaker 2: Don't see it?
Speaker 1: They didn't have one.
Speaker 3: I think the closest they get is crachy like it's
just like, oh, look at that, like it's only one
year and that's just but it's not.
Speaker 1: You said, why I'm going C minus. I can't get
down to a D because I feel like that harps
too much on like, oh, like, look at what they
gave up for de Jontay Murray versus. But you don't
you haven't really carved out a specific direction and the
fact that you know, you don't control your picks, and
like we're still sitting here quibbling over like, oh, they
didn't use the like the they could use the bi
annual and still not have been life in the first
eighteen territory. So I just that's why I'm going C minus,
because I think that drags their gray down inevitably and
that's just which again, it's still around an average offseason,
But I think C minus is the way to go
unless you feel strongly about going to this year.
Speaker 3: I think that feels right. I think that feels right.
So let's give him a C minus.
Speaker 1: Our next team up is the your Charlotte Hornets. I
have to just assign every team to you now. They
hired Charles Lee as their head coach. They opted to
draft Tjan Salon at number six. They also drafted kJ
Simpson at number forty two. He signed a two way.
They acquired Josh Green Reggie Jackson, who has since been waived,
Denvers twenty twenty nine second, Denvers twenty thirty second for
their own twenty twenty five second round pick and cash
that was part of a larger six team trade. They
re signed Miles Bridges three year, seventy five million dollars.
The salary declines year over year. They acquired Devonte Graham,
who was guaranteed three million dollars and New Orleans's twenty
twenty five second from the Spurs. They signed Taj Gibson
to a one year minimum. They signed Seth Curry to
a one year minimum. That's about it. They did decline
J T. Thores's team option, he remained unsigned, and they
waved Alexey Potschewski, so they clearly get an f.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, this is another one where it's kind of like.
Speaker 1: Well, I think so the question there's two fundamental questions
for them. I think I'm gonna throw the first one
to you. Do you think they made or optimized the
use of their cap space slash flexibility? And why? Is
the answer?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean maybe that just depends ultimately on like
how much you like Josh Green. Is that really what
this is gonna come down to, because that's as you're
as we're going through all these and I guess, like,
do you think Miles Bridges is a positive value asset
at about twenty five million a year?
Speaker 2: I think the answer to that is probably yes, But
I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm just not blown away by anything. But I also
don't hate anything they did. I'm looking for reasons to
like deviate from an average grade again here because I don't.
Speaker 2: Want to do too in a row.
Speaker 3: But but yeah, like what, I guess what would the
move have been to have made better use of flexibility they.
Speaker 1: Had not treating Josh Green's contract like an asset. Like
I know that they ended up getting second round picks
back in that trade, but that was because of the
Reggie Jackson one, which the compensation they got off. That
was a great move, but like that was smart business
by them. Also, I like the Charles Lee higher Like
it seems like that's someone who's gonna come in and
make a material difference on the culture. The other thing
that I do think we should factor in as part
of the grade here, as Kannada Edwards outline during our
Hornets look Ahead, they like overhauled the medical staff, which
was a big issue. And this is a team that's
now spending money in off court stuff like promising to
they promised to like the practice facility, like updating that
or I think like building a new one, whatever it was.
That's a big deal. Just when you look at kind
of the lexicon of how Charlotte Hornets basketball is gone
under the Michael Jordan regime. I do think they got
like in Seth Curry, that's a nice runway out of
the minimum. So I dislike how they value Josh Green
as an asset because I disagreed. I always defer to
our guests because they cover the team more than I do.
But obviously Josh Green wasn't on the Hornets. The idea
that he's this three and D guy is just wrong,
Like he wants to have the ball more than you think,
and he also is just not as good as a
defender as you think, and so he's a body that
you could plug in there. But when I go through
their offseason, that's really the only move I dislike. Because
the Miles Bridges value, however you feel about him as
a human being, I think that's in line with what
he's gonna do on the court. And the fact that
it declines. I don't buy into that you can't extend
him if you need to off that. I think that
number is gonna be high enough to extend him. I
also think that the contract is gonna be good enough
for some team to give you something. I don't think
he finishes this deal here. I'm the thing that I'm
actually hung up on. I just don't know how to wait.
The draft is Salon would not have been my guy.
But I also appreciate one because they released the video
of their like draft pick process, but also the fact
that they took a swing on such a project. It
kind of telegraphs to me that, Okay, they're taking this
seriously and they're not gonna short circuit, Like if I
had to ask you this question or the Hornet's more
likely to try and do something that accelerates their timeline
or trade LaMelo, and I think neither scenario is likely,
But I think that they're more likely to trade LaMelo
ball than try to make that short circuiting trade. And
I like that the franchise is thinking in those big
picture terms, and so I actually do find myself here
coming out a little bit more above average, even though
I think it's like you were doing the MAVs as
solid at the end of the day with that Josh
Green stuff, I don't know why you treated him. I'm
not crazy about the contract he's on. I found that
to be damaging, but curious.
Speaker 3: If you're willing to go above average, I think because
I always have liked Josh Green, and like I can
see that the contract is.
Speaker 1: Can you pitch me on Josh Green? Then yeah, no.
Speaker 3: The A couple of things I really love about him
are his ability to catch the ball and or drive
and pass on the move, like these the go you
know YouTube the highlight reel of Josh Green's on the
move passing.
Speaker 1: Like he plays highlight games.
Speaker 3: He plays too fast a lot, but I just have
always liked that particular aspect of his game, and he
does play really hard. I do agree like the three
and DS is weird because he's kind of too small
to like really be the guy you'd throw at wings
and just the catch all metrics just have generally not
been Josh Green fans. He's an eye test guy for
me a little bit, and that's as flimsy as it sounds.
But so like I'm I'm totally receptive to the argument
that he's just not a positive asset on the money
he's making. I still just hold out a little bit
of hope that some of his best qualities can really matter.
Speaker 2: But we'll see. I think just the other the last thing.
Speaker 3: I'd say that's kind of skewing me towards a positive,
you know, above average grade is the Salon pick when
you compare it to Brandon Miller, who was like the
safest of safe picks right last year. I do think
it shows like sort of a flexibility or like a
an adaptability to like, Okay, what are the conditions. Okay,
we are willing to take a major project now because
that's sort of where we are, and that's quite a
bit different from how they thought last offseason. So I
don't know if that's maybe that just being wishy washy
on the Hornets part, but I think it's I think
it could be painted as a positive.
Speaker 2: So I don't know you're ready for a grade.
Speaker 1: I'm not.
Speaker 3: I mean, the Gibson and Curry deals are kind of
whatever's They're not moving the needle for me.
Speaker 1: I do wonder if they should have gotten more for
taking on DeVante Graham, but like that's again, I I
guess if you don't like their offseason, if if we're
coming at this from a devil's advocate perspective, like what
else did you want it? Honestly, unless you hate Josh
Green's contract, I don't think it's toxic. I just don't.
They treated it like an asset, a small asset. I
just wouldn't have done that. When you look at what
Detroit did to take on Tim Hardway June, where they
gave up Quentin Grimes, part of that process, like that
whole deal that the process of the Horns looks like
a home run. Yeah, and so right, even as someone
who is down on Josh Green, like where is the
move where you're like, oh, this is like they were
supposed to do more, you would have. I think, honestly,
you would have to hate the draft pick right, which
is like.
Speaker 2: Do we know what what top ten pick? Do we
know less about that? Like is the then than Salon? Right?
Speaker 1: I see, I might. I'm trying to think of the
top ten off rip right now, but like we might
be seeing the same thing this time next year because
I don't know that he's gonna have like a huge
role out of the gate that they wind up getting
rid of. Like this feels like a classic post trait then,
and I'm like, that's when we start to see Salon
just play a bunch of minim uh So I'm prepared
to go I think this actually might surprise you based
off how it seems like you're a s body what
I was saying. I think they get a B plus.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's higher than I was gonna go. I
was thinking like C plus B minus.
Speaker 1: I think do we compromise it a B because you're right,
if we're using C as average, I think might be able.
Speaker 3: I think my boss is almost like there's like multiple like,
oh my god, that was a good move and I'm
not seeing that here.
Speaker 1: You use the term wishy washy before I think I'm
just looking at as like a disc like they have
a competent infrastructure in place, and I'm just so excited
for it.
Speaker 3: I think big picture, some of this spills into like
before the off season, but like new ownership, new front office,
new coach, the medical staff. Point is a great one,
like doing all just it's a more functional franchise that
seems to have an end goal as opposed to just
like I don't know, making money or whatever it was,
or not not losing money, which seemed to be the
Michael Jordan regimes goal.
Speaker 2: So I could I think maybe a flat B. Can
we compromise and call it a bee?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's an easy one that I the
way you're I think you have. I'm like, I'm waiting
the off court like changes here a lot.
Speaker 3: But there aren't many franchises where that kind of change
would matter more, you know than with Charlotte because it
was so shitty for so.
Speaker 1: Long and then having a direction matter. So yeah, I
think I think a bee is a is a fair
plot to be all right? That takes us too great?
Speaker 3: Your my Miami Heat, I'm gonna I can't decide what
team I'm going to give you, But it's coming. So
drafted Kelloware at number fifteen. Josh Richardson's back. They picked
up his three point one million dollars player option. He
is coming off shoulder surgery. Kevin Love also back, two
years eight million. Got Thomas Bryant at the minimum. Some
second round finagling. Traded number forty three to Atlanta for
forty four. Got Alex Burke at Alec Alec Alex Burke.
That's like bizarro Alec Burks. That pluralized the front name,
first name Alex mcnow and that's there's really like why
Mac to pop the one year deal for him at
the minimum?
Speaker 2: Heywood Heismith two.
Speaker 3: Years eleven million, came on every other team in the league?
Fashion good signing BAM three years, one hundred and sixty
five million dollar extension player option twenty eight, twenty nine.
Let's see, oh lost Caleb Martin to Philly for four
years and thirty five million dollars. Could bring that total
to four years for forty point three, which is still
an underpay, I think, so we'll have to discuss.
Speaker 2: That a little bit. I mean, what are we thinking here?
Speaker 3: They got there were some you got a little bit
of everything here you got the bargain signing, you got
the parents screw up where you can't figure out how
to make it work with Martin got the BAM extension.
Speaker 1: Can I interject there for a second. They offered to
have Martin to opt in and then extend him off
that number for another four years. That would have guaranteed
him substantially more than he ended up getting, right even
on a like I think, even on an annual basis,
So let's just say he gets to forty over four,
he would have gotten more than that per year over
five with Miami. Now, I don't know, like it's a
misread of the market on his part, but I keep
coming back to like we still could have just kept him,
like like just because he still could have kept him, and.
Speaker 3: Being too harsh and not just it seemed, you know,
now that I'm thinking back on it, it did seem
like most of the surprise was like what was his
agent telling him to do? Like it just it is
a mysterad of the market whenever this happens, though it does,
like I'm trying to think of, certainly, like remember Neurlans
Noel lost, Like however, many tens of millions of dollars.
Speaker 2: That was a few years ago.
Speaker 3: By getting bad advice with the MAVs, I guess yeah,
I mean, is it fair then should I not put
any of the onus on the heat for Martin?
Speaker 1: Well? My ole thing. It's just like they're clearly they're
so as we're recording that they're inside two million of
the second apron and they're a team where I'm like,
I don't know how much to I'm sort of just like,
you're not good enough to really go in the second apron,
but you just let this dude who's super won't just
walk for nothing.
Speaker 3: But then it's also the heat and it's all right, well,
they'll just find someone else. And it's like they have
Haime Hawke as would play the like, and nikole Jovic
and then even Heyward high Smith, Like you feel those
minutes sort of by committee here.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to feel about that. I do.
What I will say is it's not as fuck Miami's
process as much as it would be if like that
whole scenario of have him opted in that extend him
wasn't on the table so like they did put but
like you still could have kept him and if you
wanted to duck the separate apron up the sepin apron
the second apron. Martin's contract would have been eminently movable,
or someone else's contract you could have moved, And so
I think I think it's fair to factor that in
as a pretty big negative for them. It's not like
the F minus minus that it would have been if
they were just like nah, like good, like yeah right.
Speaker 3: What about One thing I didn't mention going through this
was they didn't give Jimmy Butler an extension, like it
would have been a.
Speaker 1: Smart to be honest, I think that's okay. He's an
extra year of Jimmy Butler lockdown under guaranteed contract. What
is that He's going into his age thirty five season,
He's missing like between fifteen and twenty something games every year.
Like I'm fine with them, not like, honestly, contract year,
Jimmy Butler's probably more valuable to them than a Jimmy
Butler that has like one or two more guaranteed seasons
left on his contract.
Speaker 3: And kind of like my crusade against extending guys before
restricted free agency, I'm also like, I'm on board with
just like you're under contract, we don't need to just
be throwing extra years at you through your late thirties
just just to keep you happy.
Speaker 2: Like I brought it up, I think it's a positive.
I don't think they should have extended him.
Speaker 1: I'm like kind of just whatever on it, but like,
can we have the same energy that people like, how
could they not extend them? About like the working class?
Like where Grant in minds extensions, Like.
Speaker 3: We're like, oh man, okay, we got there's a lot here.
The BAM thing is a no brainer?
Speaker 2: Well is it?
Speaker 1: Here's my I'm not in the way that you think
I'm going to go with this. If you were them,
would you have preferred to have waited until next summer
to get him for an extra year? Because now you're
kind of it's in a weird situation where this is
going to be I think his age thirty one season
when he has that player option, and so it almost
makes sense like that's weird territory be a lot easier
if he's like entering his age thirty two season or
whatever it is, and be like okay like that. I
just I'm just wondering if you factor that in at
all or is it just kind of you don't have
a ton of long term certainty at this point, so
we have him locked up for the next because this
doesn't start until twenty six, twenty seven.
Speaker 3: I hadn't thought about it until just now, but I
think I think I prefer them because it is it
is like BAM friendly to do it now because he
gets the free agency a year earlier, right, as opposed
to the heat would have benefited more by waiting going longer.
I think if you'd if you had sort of this
is exaggeration, but had sort of said like, no, not
going to do it to both BAM and Jimmy Butler,
I think maybe those two would kind of look at
each other, like what do we what's going on with
this organization? Like that's they're just We're just not important
anymore so at least because Bam, I mean, over the
next five years, BAM just matters more than Jimmy. Right,
maybe not this year, but but like but maybe this
year because BAM might just be better than him now.
Speaker 2: I think I think that makes it.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to move the grade one way or
the other based on like when they extended him, But
I think I would rather have just locked him down,
done him a slight favor by letting him back into
free agency a year early, as opposed to like the
Jimmy thing, which is different because of the age factor.
Speaker 1: I think that's fair.
Speaker 3: H what do you Why did Kevin Love have to
get more than the minimum I just signed for them?
Speaker 1: I just don't understand that at all. I do like
the Alec Burk's minimum signing is I think very good,
that's great value. High Smith is a home run, like
just that's just like I can't I mean, you would say, well,
like it's not longer, would be like like, why isn't
this like three years? Like so there's there's that to consider.
But that's like he got mini mid level money as
someone who I thought was gonna get like non tax
payer mid level. I mean, clearly I read the market,
but he's by those standards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he seems like he seems worth the total value
of the contract, which is eleven like per year. It's
I mean, I mean even that might I mean I
don't want to get crazy about it, but like he's
just a good rotation player that you could probably start
consistently and have no issues if you have enough like
high end scoring talent around him. So The other thing
is a lot of people are pretty big in on
kellaware after Summer League as like he might start I
don't know how realistic that is, but there was chatter
about that, like if he's that good as a like
athletic offensive force, like you could play him with Bam,
that that's plausible.
Speaker 1: And Heat have kind of been flirting with that for
a while where we saw them start Kevin Love next
to Bam for a little bit before getting away from that.
And then remember before I think it was a couple
of years ago, before Omer your at seven got injured,
there was talk of like those two playing together a ton.
So it seems like they've kind of had this doll
ince with that we want to play two bigs together,
and so if they think that this can work, and look,
Bam was getting up some threes for some of thesa
stretches from the corner. I don't know how to grade
that pick. A lot of people say that they had
where as a lottery talent. They got him outside the lottery,
So that's most if anything, is probably a little bit
above water, but we need to see it in.
Speaker 3: Actually yeah yeah, yeah, no, where are you at with
this team? I mean, I think based on the Highsmith deal,
I do think where seems like a value, even though,
like you.
Speaker 2: Know, it's not real smart to just start waiting the draft.
Speaker 3: I don't see anything I really hate. I guess the
Kevin Love thing that you pointed out seems a little rich.
So this is feeling like a bee to me. Maybe
maybe I would be more inclined to go.
Speaker 2: Higher than lower if from the bee like baseline, I think.
Speaker 1: We're in lockstep with the bee because I don't know,
like it just depends on how you feel about the
Kayla Martin stuff. But I don't think he's enough. When
they did at least lay out the scenario of okay,
like we'll pay you more money, but you have to
like take continue to be on this bargain being contract
for another year. I still think they should have kept
him and then figured it out later. But uh, yeah,
I think I think a b is fair because that's
the only thing to really just you can't feel like
be like enraged by the Kevin Love contract. I don't
understand it, but it's not something to be raged about.
So I think a bee is fair, and I don't
know if i'd be inclined to go higher, but a
lot of that might just depend, as you out late
at the beginning of Well, if you think it's a
good thing that they didn't extend Jimmy Butler, like that's
the just like to get BAM locked down, Hayward high Smith,
I'm the like, there's no even the like. The only
two things you can take issue with, I think as
of right now, or the Kevin Love contract that's small
and the Kayla Martin departure, which they weren't just idle
when it came to that. So I think a B
is fair. But you if you want to try and
talk me into a B plus be my guest.
Speaker 3: No, if I were to do that, it would be
based on just how much I sort of enjoy the
not not giving Butler the extension, but that you why
don't you want Jimmy Butler to get Is it because
his coffee is overpriced?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, that's really all it is. No, I just
I just think, like, I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, maybe I'm just into the idea of teams sort
of just not operating the same way all the time,
where it's just the moment you have extension eligibility if
you're above a certain level, you get it regardless of how
old you are and regardless of how the injury bug
and like your time missed just you know, makes you
somewhat unreliable now, let alone.
Speaker 2: Like in three years. I just I don't know, but yeah,
I can't. It might be a mistake because Jimmy Butler
might be pissed off all year.
Speaker 3: And that might not be a good thing for the Heat.
It could be a contract year thing, like you said,
but it can't move the needle too much.
Speaker 2: So I think a be is right.
Speaker 1: And the other thing is too is if you're trying
to look at opportunities they passed on. There was just
nothing that we heard in terms of trade murmurings where
it's like they should have Yeah, they should have been
in on Larry market and they never would have got him,
and nobody ended up getting him. So that brings us
too your hmmm, because they're all they're all your team
Grant Orlando Magic. They did stuff like another offseas, so
we'll start here. They drafted Tristan to Silver at number eighteen,
drafted Antonio Res at number forty seven. They signed casep
away from the Nuggets three years, sixty six million player
option on that final season. Gogopatadza got three years and
twenty five million, no options, fully guaranteed on a declining scale.
Gary Harris two years, fifteen million, got a team options.
There's a team option on that latter year. Jonathan Isaac
renegotiate and extended to five years eighty four million. Average
annual value about sixteen point eight. The salary declines as
the contract ages, and there are as usual like the
protections caked in for the Mavericks. The Mavericks the Mavericks.
Mo Wagner two years, twenty two million, flat rate, no options.
Franz Wagner got five year a five year max, so
two hundred and twenty four point two estimated it could
go to two sixty nine point one if he makes
all NBA. There are no options on it. Corey Joseph
signed a two year minimum deal team option on that
final season, and because he's like kind of a cult guy,
they signed Treveling Queen to a two way contract. Notable
things here, We're gonna we might have to during regrades.
We haven't seen a jail on jail and Suggs extension yet.
And then Joe Ingles signed with the Timberwolves and Markel
Foltz clearly not coming back. He remains unsigned. H Grant,
How do you feel about this offseason?
Speaker 3: I feel as if we were going to have to
concede that we loved the KCP signing at the time,
like irrationally so just because it was it felt maybe
I don't want to speak for you, but it felt
at the time like, Okay, Orlando's gonna.
Speaker 2: Go do the things we've been asking him to do.
They're gonna go get like another three and D shooting guard.
Speaker 3: Surely there's you know, a a an offensive organizer coming
to replace Folts or at least someone you could kind
of put into that three guard rotation with KCP and
Suggs that did not happen. So we need to get
off the idea that like the KCP signing was more
important than it was. I think it's just as a
starting point because at that point where were like, oh
my god, this is gonna be an a off season, right,
Like I reallyst that's kind of how I felt.
Speaker 2: Spoiler, it will.
Speaker 3: Not be that, I guess, like big picture, the only
contract that I'm like really not comfortable with is Franz's Max.
I just think, you know, the shooting last year may
have been a blip, twenty eight percent from three. He
was much better than that the two previous seasons. This
is a situation where I don't really feel like there
was a there was any urgency or any compelling reason
to say something other than like, okay, earn it because
we still have restricted free agency next summer.
Speaker 2: Like there. This is kind of the one that really
triggered my like, ooh, are we really just throwing these
extensions out like no problem to everybody? He could prove
me wrong. He could be an All Star this year.
It just seemed early. And if he were. If he
is an All Star this year, guess what.
Speaker 3: The Magic still have the inside track to keeping him
and nobody else can pay him more.
Speaker 2: So that's that.
Speaker 3: Ultimately, though, I think this offseason felt insufficiently ambitious for
I think what we were hoping for, And so I
don't know, well, first of all, do you agree with that? Like,
are you ultimately disappointed with what Orlando ended up doing?
Speaker 2: Just alltogether?
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm disappointed. It was anticlimactic though,
for sure, and I had the same concerns about the
Franz Wodnary contract and you basically decided I know you
kind of did this because you gave Gogo Batadze money
that leaks out into next year. Same with Jonathan Isaac
and Kntavious called bo Pope, but you pumped it on
a bunch of flexibility by just maxing out like you
would have said, it's his cap hold would have been
more than fifteen million dollars lower than he's on the
books for next season, which is thirty eight point eight million.
And I ultimately don't think and I hate that we
have to talk about this way because Magic fans are
gonna be mad. But if you can't admit this, Franz
Froger's not a no brainer max player yet maybe he
turns into one, but then you max him when he
turns into one, which is next summer. And so punting
on that flexibility and forget about the flexibility, but just
punting on the idea that like you should negotiate this
at all is bizarre to me. And by the way,
if you're gonna sign him, like you should be able
to get a benefit, and like having the only benefit
be that there's no player options, doesn't the benefit would
be oh, he's sub max money at that point, Like
he even got the all NBA language, which ye okay,
in theory, be happy to like include like pay that
if he makes All NBA and is one of the
top fifteen to twenty players in the league next season.
But it feels like they had the levers to say
like at least like, no, that's not gonna be in there, Like,
you just shot under thirty percent from three. Your jumper
efficiency has been all over the place for your first
three seasons. Yeah, he does a lot of good stuff
inside the arc. He's been way better defensively than people
give him credit for. He could be a very good
secondary playmaker. I think they have the ability to expand
that for him, But I like that is honestly their
biggest This is worse than them like elected not to
make a swing that you and I wanted them to,
but to get to the cause I know that I
kind of just belabored a point you already had to
not make a bigger swing when it comes to specifically
an off the dribble shot maker, an offensive organizer. Here's
why it bugs me because this is a team that
would get so much better without Like we're not talking
about they could do whatever they want, like go through
the tiers, like if LaMelo Ball was available or they
have by the way, they have the assets to create
their own trade market. And the KCP move, by the way,
better than it even isn't a vacuum for what he
does because they increase the value of Denver's twenty twenty
five first round pick, which they own, so that's top
five protected. So that's good. But like it didn't have
to be a star like LaMelo Ball in his own
tier and Andfony Simon's in another tier. Fucking Malcolm Brogden
would help this team a ton. Signing Tias Jones would
have been You probably could have given him enough money
over the short term to be like hey, like, don't
go to Phoenix for the minimum. So the fact that
they and I'm it doesn't have to be those specific players,
like I'll continue to rattle them off, like why aren't
you involved in the Colin Sexton Uta would probably give
him up, So they could have done that at a
minimal opportunity cost, And the fact that they didn't, it's
just disappointing. There's no move that they made that was bad.
Gary Harris at that money is fine. Goga at that
money is fine. I just and unless you love the
idea of Tristan de Silva at number eighteen, which you know,
kind of coming in the archetypal wing, that might be
able to give them some minutes, I just And even
if you believe that, by the way, Jet Howard's gonna
come in and play actual minutes this year, okay, fine,
But like we just watched them lose in the playoffs
exactly how we thought they were gonna lose by Palo
bank Cao going off and them still just not having
enough offensive juice around him. And I'm open to the idea,
my prediction, even though I'm working on a hot takes
piece and I wasn't willing to go this route because
I just don't want to deal with the response. But
I guess I'm when to deal with the year. John
Suggs I think is like has a chance to be
the second most important player on this team moving forward,
over over Franz, and so like that makes the fraud's
decision more complicated to me. Again, nothing to hate, but
like I look at this kind off season, like, well,
what did they do that was above average? Like what
is the above average move here, and it's it's the
KCP move because it did show a willingness to like,
all right, like this guy's older, he's not at the
same timeline as everybody else. So like I'll give that
like a because of what it does the Devers draft
pick and the fact that they own it, Like you know,
I love gamesmanship, right, so that might be a B
plus move.
Speaker 3: So your point about the playoffs is really kind of
what I was going to circle back to, because when
we did the regrades, I thought it was one of
the interesting arguments you could make in favor of Orlando
was like they were kind of inactive last summer, but
that was partly built around like, we trust what we
have and we think these guys will get better, and
they were right about that. But then to go into
the playoffs and and lose for the reasons that everybody
saw developing over the season, and like you don't have
the type of player we keep saying they needed to
acquire the offensive organizer off the ribbleshooter or whatever like that.
Speaker 2: That niche is unfilled. So the defense is going to
be awesome.
Speaker 3: You're going to overstretch your forwards to be your playmakers
that didn't work in the postseason. They kind of put
faith in the process or organic growth again a little bit,
also adding KCP, but like you can't.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe we'll be wrong again and Sugs will just get
that much better, or Wagner will justify that contract.
Speaker 2: But it just I don't know. I keep coming back
to disappointed. I think I think it's it was a.
Speaker 3: Mistake probably to bank on the needs you have being
filled by the players that are on the roster, even
if they get better, I just don't they aren't going
to turn into different kinds of players, and they just
clearly still have a need that we knew they had
all last year, in all offseason, they didn't feel it.
So I I know we've been hanging around the C
and B range.
Speaker 2: I think I need.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm thinking we're in like D plus as well.
My gut says right now, I.
Speaker 1: Was gonna be prepared to go like be minus because
I do think, like, don't we need to wait. The
fact that we just said there's no bad deals on
the books, like the Jonathan Isaac contract is probably pretty
good for them. The other thing that they did do.
But again, if you don't trust that they're gonna do it.
I totally understand, like they're so far beneath the first
apron that they are, Like they can do a lot
of stuff via trade without giving up a ton, And
you have all these contracts that once the trade restrictions lift,
you could throw Gogo Pataz and there Gary Harris's salary
matching Jonathan Isaac himself, Mo Wagner if you're willing to
trade for Fronz's brother, and so I view that as
like a value add in itself. So maybe a C
minus because you're right, like they could have done more
and didn't. I get The other pushback would be, was
now the time to do? Like do you view the
East as open enough for them to say, like, yeah,
we like we could be the second seat, Like we
could beat the Knicks and the Sixers and the Calves,
like forget about Boston, which is on its own tier.
But you have to also factor that into the equipt.
Speaker 3: No, I don't view the East as open enough. Let's say, no,
you don't factor that to go for it. But I guess,
like then, so then if the argument is okay, they
you know, they didn't put fronds aside we both are
not huge fans of that contract. They didn't it's not
like they kept you know, they kept the draft pick
powder dry, but like they did put some money on
the books going out a couple of years to where
it's not you're not like equipped to have max flexibility.
Not that free agency ever accomplishes anything anymore, by the way,
that's something to talk about, Like nobody nobody signs impact guys,
but you compromise a little flexibility, so you're not like,
I don't feel like the magic our team that's like
twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 2: We're just gunning for that.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like we want to be in the
top four this year and then we want to take
a step after that. I don't know if this positions
them to I don't know, maybe it does.
Speaker 1: I talk to you that, do you think it damages
their position because like we can we definitely have detracted
because we're viewing this through the lens of the road
not traveled. So how much like when you look at
the road they travel, does any of it disastrous or
outright bed No, no, no, And I would argue the answer
with the exception of the Franz contract being the risk
I would say no, and so like they're still in
a position to get better slash make upgrades mid season. Now,
if you're sitting here and you're telling me, like, well, it's
clear that they're absolutely not going to do that, then
I totally understand going in the D range. But they
did use their resources on talent retention that could be
rerouted or at least like prop them up to where
they were to pave the way for the guys that
are all still young to get better.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've already talked me out of the D plus.
I think it's just now I'll just be repeating myself.
I it feels unambitious, but I think you're probably right
that if there's a bigger because like the road not
taken was like should have been easy, Like Tyas Jones
cannot have been hard to acquire he signed for the minimum.
Like things like that like kind of irk me a
little bit. But then I imagine Orlando's like we have
Anthony Black and Jeded Howard.
Speaker 2: One of those guys is probably.
Speaker 3: Gonna help maybe Cole Anthony plays a little better and
like our guard rotations, maybe okay, so we don't need to,
you know, fire off a bunch of money, but it's
like they didn't have to do anything crazy to go
address the needs that they have. So I don't know,
I can't get up into the B range. I think
we're gonna then it sounds like we're settling in some
kind of C here.
Speaker 1: So what what is your actual like if you were
grading the off season for them, I.
Speaker 3: I think I have to go I want to go
C minus just because I'm ultimately underwhelmed by what they
did to address the needs that they had.
Speaker 1: I think, so I think we're gonna need to settle
in the sea or the C plus range because I'm
I would I think I would stick with my B minus.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's give them, Well, what's what splits the difference? There?
Is it just to see?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like that would be the like I need.
Speaker 2: It's like a C point seventy five to split it exactly.
Speaker 1: Well, that would be saying it's an average offseason relative
to the resources and opportunities at their disposal, And.
Speaker 2: That's maybe that's about right.
Speaker 1: That's probably fine. And look, by the way, if they
wind up moving any of the guys that they signed,
it like if Gary Harrison go Goo's salary are part
of a trade to get Anthony Simons. Now I might
sit there and be like, well, why did they just
make this move in the off season? And then that's
the thing I struggle with is the stuff they needed
was so like, you can't tell me that the Wizards
wouldn't trade Malcolm Brogden. You can't tell me that the
Blazers won't trade Anthony Simons. So they does feel like
an active choice to go down this current path, Yeah,
but not damaging many stretch. Next team Grant oh or
was gonna.
Speaker 2: Give them to you, that was gonna give you the
Washington Wizards. Is this me my turn to read? I
think it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, So Brian Keith is the new full
time head coach after an interim Bassis drafted Alex Sar
at number two, traded Danny Avdia for Malcolm Brogden, the
pick that became bug Bub Carrington and a twenty nine
first round which will be the second most favorable from Portland,
Boston or Milwaukee traded Dylan Jones and Melvin Agenza for
Kaishwan George Rashaun Holmes re signed two years twenty five
point nine million after he declined his twelve point nine
million dollars player option. The second year of that is
only guaranteed for two hundred and fifty thousand. Jonas Valanciunas
three years thirty million, just one of the more head
scratching signings at the time and still a little bit
that way. Sadiq Bay got three years nineteen million, Anthony
gilto for four point eight Tyas Jones gone to Phoenix,
Landry Shammett remains a free agent, and Delon Wright gone
to Milwaukee.
Speaker 2: What do we think about the Wizard?
Speaker 3: Still pretty clearly rebuilt, maybe based on the Abdia trade,
aggressively rebuilding.
Speaker 1: So I just it has to be an f because
sars the biggest draft bust of all time, right, Like
he's gonna be up there all Blondie and Anthony Bennett,
all those guys. So that's like clearly f Midas Midas
can we go. But in all actuality, the move that
I focus on, because yeah, there was a choice at
number two and like I guess honestly reached from this
team would have been super interesting.
Speaker 3: We'll have to see, like Jordan Poole looking him off.
I wonder how that would have.
Speaker 1: Necessarily gone but like, again, we have to see this
go through the season. They've taken an interesting approach to
with how they plan to develop him. Just I think
he's gonna play like minutes next to other bigs, including valanceiunis,
which that signing was like good value, even though it
doesn't vibe with their direction. But if you're looking to
anocuate Sar a little bit, the move that I feel
like is the like and correct me if you think
I'm wrong. That I feel like defines their offseason is
the Denny Avia trade, and you look at it. I
think the two things that matter here is, well, how
do you feel about the value they got back from him,
knowing that he's about to start a four year, fifty
five million dollars extension that's probably gonna age into one
of the best contracts in the NBA? Versus why do
you feel about bub What do you think they can
get from out, Like if they can get a late
first for Malcolm Brogden and this becomes a lottery pick,
that twenty twenty nine first, and like that additional whatever pick,
it is like, that's pretty good. But I think you
could also view it by saying if this was the
peak of Deniavia's value, which it might have been, would
you've been better off with Denniafdia I lean towards I
initially didn't like this move. Honestly, for anybody, I didn't
really I didn't understand it for necessarly either side, but
from a wizard's perspective. And I was talking about this
with Discord Legend as he must be known Matt Maderno.
The fact that they accepted a twenty twenty nine first
round pick as a primary form of compensation, it wasn't
the only one. That shows a level of long term
game planning that I think you have to really fucking
appreciate with this team. And maybe ted Leonsis comes in
and ruins the whole thing because he gets tired of waiting,
But and even going with bub Carrington because that guy's
gonna get the keys to the offense at some point,
if not right away. That again just shows a level
of commitment to the longer term. I find myself liking
the fact that they have continued down the path they
laid last year, And I would quibble more so over like,
was the interview process extensive enough to where, like Brian Keith,
was the guy. Everything that you hear about why they
went with him is so anecdotal and not evidence based
in the slightest that that's something to wonder about. I
just I don't know that this was a home run
off season, but it was an off season I think
reinforced me feeling semi confident in their direction.
Speaker 3: I agree with that, And the Avdia trade really kind
of confounded me for all the same reason. He's twenty three, Like,
isn't that young enough? And he's on a great contract.
Isn't that like can't that be part of a rebuild?
Maybe not if you're looking as far ahead as twenty
twenty nine, like maybe not.
Speaker 2: So I was confused, And then kind of I.
Speaker 3: Think I just didn't like it for Washington at first,
because it's like, well, what's Bob Carrington going to be?
Speaker 2: Like maybe something, maybe not.
Speaker 3: Maybe you get a first for Brogden, maybe not, but
that twenty nine first just looking a so you're getting
the second most favorable out of Portland, Boston and Milwaukee,
which means, like, I mean, the odds of a couple
of those teams being bad or you know, at least
certainly worse than like Boston and Milwaukee are right now
in five years is pretty good. And just to your point,
the willingness to look that far out, I think is encouraging,
particularly for a team that has just had like nothing
beyond the next six months exists for like way too long.
Speaker 2: Like that that I think is refreshing and is a
positive sign.
Speaker 3: The last thing I would say that like about the
star pick, and I caught some flak for this, I
think was just if you're gonna criticize a draft selection,
I think this is the one because Reed Shepherd went
right after. And I think Reed Shepherd certainly right now
is a better player and might just be that way indefinitely.
And it's not like you had Trey Young like Atlanta did.
The Hawks have a little bit of cover for not
taking a guard. Washington just doesn't get that same luxury
like and if read Shepherd's the best player there, you
probably need to take him. Maybe Sar will be make
five All Star Games and who knows, but like, I
just think Shephard was the guy there. Certain I don't
know if I would have said that on draft night
to be fair, but like, based on what we know now,
that's kind of where I'm at. So if it's if
we're allowed to grade with knowledge we've gained since the draft,
I think that's it looks like a miss today.
Speaker 1: Shepherd was higher on I think both of our like
unofficial big board than Sar in the moment, and so
this feels like more so than Atlanta, who has Tree Young,
Shepherd should have been the pick to me, But we
have to be open minded about Shar. I'm very curious
to how they use him next year because giving him
the agency that he had in Summer League is clearly
not it. And so I don't again this draft specifically,
I don't know how to view that. But the one
thing I do like about their draft, and I was
almost like, because the Knicks in the position to keep
Keishawn George and I really like him, I think that
that ends up being like really fantastic value for them,
and I love the archetype of player. We'll have to
see if some of his physical physical tools excuse me,
can hold up against NBA level talent really at both
ends of the floor. But I love that pick for them,
and so like I kind of almost view this as
a like is it in a I don't know if
is it an above like it's an above average offseason
I think in terms of process, oh yeah, but like
in terms of what they actually did, I don't know,
like how far above average you could go, if at all.
So and by the way, I'm not I don't care
that they didn't move Kyle Kuzma as an example, or
Malcolm Brogden. Yet those things will either happen or they won't.
I'll tell you what's not gonna happen.
Speaker 3: Neither one of those dudes is gonna prevent them from
having top four lottery odds. No, And I think I
think in both. So the Brogden thing is what I
was gonna say. There's quite a bit here that, like,
h it's hard to grade this team because so much
depends on what they might ultimately get for Brogden, what
they would use Rashaun Holmes's salary for what they might
or might not get for valentunis like in theory, like
you could turn that into stuff that makes a lot
of sense on a team that's got a long time
horizon for this rebuild. But you we don't know, like
that's speculative. We're not sure what the returns will be
for those guys or if they can even trade all
of them, Like you just assume, you assume that's the plan.
But it's just like there's a little bit of an
incomplete here. We're not gonna cop out and give them
an incomplete, but like you know what I mean, there's
there's a lot of this that could swing depending on
what they ultimately get back for, Like even like Kuzma,
if you're gonna potentially ding them, which I'm not for
not moving on from him, like because you're still like
he's still an asset you can trade for something any.
Speaker 1: Other thing too, is the creative because you mentioned Holmes.
We don't know if they're gonna do anything with that,
but they're clearly open to like, oh, we're gonna use
this money to take on more money or do something
on the trade market, because otherwise, why would you restructure
this deal to have that partially guaranteed year in the
second season. You would just let him be the expiring
contract that he was gonna be, like because he would
have exercised his player option without the possibility of, Oh, like,
I might be able to get a shit ton of
more money if they need to guarantee five million is
part of a trade later on.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm ultimately kind of enamored with the process that
you mentioned here. It's like, you know, this is a teardown,
like the and and the pieces that are not just
down to the studs are gonna be moved. That's the
early sets the plan and so again because it's the Wizards,
I just I love it, and I'm I'm inclined to
go like, I don't think even not being sure about
Tsar and thinking that's probably a miss as we look
at it today, this this to me is like just
the ambition of trading Ovdia for like, which is so
wild at this stage, feels I'm I go like minimum B.
Speaker 2: I could be talked into going higher.
Speaker 1: I would probably wind up at a BE too. I'm trying
to think, like, does this need to be a B
plus relative to their situation, because it's just like, because
if it's a BE, this feels like one of the
grades where if we went to regrade, we'd go back
and it's either gonna be way higher or way lower
because alex Sar will swing it in one direction or
the other. And I'm just unless you feel strongly that like, like, oh,
Alexar is definitely gonna be way worse than Red Shepherd,
and I'm just like, we don't have the exposure to
this guy to say that, I think they probably deserve
a B plus. And it's it's all about the process.
They're they're kind of it's a bunch of stab in
the dark stuff. But I don't I'm saying this over again.
It just reinforces that this franchise, or at least the
front offices of right now, is focused on building something
sustainable over the long term. And that's a again, relative
to this specific situation. That's not just a that's not
just a refreshing way of thinking. That's like a borderline
unprecedented way of thinking.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I think it'd be I'm good with a
B plus because it's like you could even frame the
star pick as like this is an upside play, which
like I don't know Shepherd, if Shepherd can really create
his own shots, and that for others, that's the most
valuable skill in the league. But like maybe you're thinking,
like I don't know, wouldn't it be cool to have
a potential stretch five with ball skills that could but
you know, maybe anchor our defense in a couple of
years that's like the.
Speaker 1: Like if Sharon Jackson Junior and Nick Friston had a
baby and that's Alex har and that's like, that's a
pretty good player.
Speaker 3: That's that's the risky like upside play that maybe you
maybe you take at the and maybe a team like
the Wizards.
Speaker 2: We keep saying like should be doing that. So I
think if.
Speaker 1: We're by the way of anything, alexr is going to
only increase their potential draft lottery odds.
Speaker 3: Sure he will not produce like Shephard this year.
Speaker 2: I feel confident in that.
Speaker 1: I think, well, actually, that's another interesting element to this.
It's it's more a regreade thing. But like, I don't
know what Shepherd's opportunity is going to be. Like in Houston,
they've got like ninety guys that need to play, and
so we might look not we'll factor that in, of course,
but like Sorrow, he will probably have more. My guess
would be we will have more information on Sar as
a player than Shephard come this time next year.
Speaker 3: I mean, we better hope so, because Sar certainly needs
to be playing a lot. I think if we're gonna
we you know, I said at the outset, like we
have to view these grades in the context of like
what is the team trying to do? And you could
frame all like every single thing the Wizards did as like, yes,
that is in keeping with let's strip this thing down
and try to get good several years from now. So
like I do wonder did you need to guarantee Sadek
Bay like nineteen million?
Speaker 1: I just I think the like, why are we three
years out instead of two?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know that's this, that's just another deal.
That's like, well, if he gets healthy, then that's a
three and D wing.
Speaker 2: I guess that we can trade that.
Speaker 3: We minus the D for the minor party perceived as
a three and D wing, I think maybe wrongly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, B plus is good. I think a B plus
is good.
Speaker 1: Here we are on to a new division, which means
we're up to your Boston. Well, they're my Boston Celtics.
I'll take this man.
Speaker 2: You well, I gave you the Wizard, so you have
to you get the Celtics too.
Speaker 1: Do you think I'll do a better job of grading
them this year? Last year?
Speaker 2: Hard?
Speaker 1: Go ahead?
Speaker 2: Were you say I was gonna say? Hard to do worse?
Speaker 1: Drafted Baylor Shireman at number thirty, drafted Anton Watson at
number fifty four, currently on an Exhibit ten deal. They
resigned Luke Curnett one year for the minimum, resigned Xavier
Tillman two year minimum fully guaranteed. Resign name as Cada
three year, seven point two million only the first seasons
fully guaranteed. Now we're getting into the big stuff. Grant
Derek White four year, one twenty five point eight million
dollar extension one hundred and eighteen million is guaranteed. He's
now signed through twenty eight twenty nine. Jason Tatum signed
the Supermax five years close to three hundred and fifteen
million that will kick in at the start of the
twenty five to twenty six season. He has a twenty
nine to thirty player option that'll be his age nineteen
season when that player options up. Incredible UH Sam Hauser
four years and forty five million dollar extension fully guaranteed.
He's now signed through twenty twenty eight twenty twenty nine.
Notable things here oshae Bersett currently on sign and also
the Drew Holliday extension not factored in here because that
happened towards the end of the regular season. UH Grant
is there anything that like about this? Obviously that caught
you off guard. I guess the Sam Hauser extension because
of the team second apron situation.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 3: But U so you may have to talk me down
because so, oh boy, I'll start I'll start with this.
This feels like a c because it's like, yeah, of
course you extend Derek White and a double. Of course
you you give Jason Tatum all the money. The Houser
thing is like, I don't know, you see a lot
of teams Denver like not do stuff like this, right
that are that are in the Celtics position. Now, the
Celtics won the whole thing, so it's a little different.
Speaker 1: But the Nuggets didn't recently do that, right, so they
should be cost cutting.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 3: You can see where I'm going, right, It seems like
this is all these are all easy decisions, like, well,
what else were they going to do? Like, yeah, you
bring back three centers, you know, two at the minimum,
one for you know, a non guarantee on the on
the which you do, by the way, because Christops is
going to be out probably until twenty twenty five and
al Horford is ninety right, so it seems easy, but
not every team does this, and in fact, some teams
like actively avoid doing this and make themselves worse. So
I guess maybe the question is should we really be
like giving the Celtics high marks because they're they are
in a position where they're great, and they did everything
they needed to do to stay great, and not everybody
that is at this level operates that way. Like teams
like the Sons are trying to get there and they're
doing kind of similar stuff minus extensions. They're just trading
for everybody. The Nuggets are the obvious foil, and like
look at the Clippers, look at the Warriors, Like these
are teams that neither of them are as good as Boston,
but they were pretty close to as expensive. They went
the other way. So it's kind of rhetorical because you
can see where I'm going, But like I wonder if
we need to start looking at a team like this
and say, like, man, like you guys, this is not easy,
this is expensive.
Speaker 2: Not everyone's doing it, but you did all the stuff
you had to to stay where you want to stay
and try to win more titles.
Speaker 1: I think that's the exact way you have to look
at it. Because given their financial situation, Jason Tatum's extension
was the only no brainer one that they gave out, Like, yeah,
Derek White in a vacuum suore, but to this team
when you know the money that's coming on your books,
like even with Christoph's coming off the books in a year,
even with Al Horford coming off the books after next season, like,
it's just going to be tough. And so now you
gave these long term deals to White and Houser, and yeah,
we probably will eventually see them make a financially motivated pivot,
but it does see I would frame it this way,
It does seem like they're willing to pay through the
teeth to keep this exact core together for at least
another two seasons. M That is, we couldn't say that
about the Denver Nuggets after they won the title, like
that's they're on that same timeline and they let KCP go,
so and yeah, they didn't have the same Boston doesn't
have the same level of young players in the hypeline
that Denver does, so you could view it as well,
they were kind of out of options. But like I
would view Sam Hauser's extension as kind of just the
ultimate like no, like we're serious about this, because that's
the one you point to and say, one, maybe you
could fight over the value relative to how many minutes
he's gonna play for them, And they also could have
played like Denver would have absolutely played this card, been
like we have Sam Hauser as a rookie and Baylor
shireman basically and like we're going to take that cost,
control the asset and emphasize him moving forward. So I
do think that we need to view it the way
that you were kind of outlining there that this was
a home run off season because they we knew they
weren't gonna tear anything down, but they didn't do anything
that suggested that they would make these wholesale moves in
the semi like in the near term. And not only
did they, like they actively made decisions that even if
they end up making a move, it's not gonna be
so dramatic that they're going to have pivoted entirely out
of this nucleus.
Speaker 3: And just like, what's the last defending champion to not
lose anybody that matters like at all? Like I mean Denver,
Bruce Brown gone, and now CACP gone, And like I'm
trying to think like all those Warriors teams were always shuffling,
like you know, their seventh eighth guys, and then the
Bucks would always lose. I'm trying, you know, they're always
like pulling off a couple parts.
Speaker 2: It's just like this is super rare. Like the Lakers,
what is that that bubble title team?
Speaker 3: Is like, there's nobody left from that team and they lost,
didn't they wasn't that the year they lost Caruso the
next season or like casep was gone, and it's like,
what are we So.
Speaker 2: The rarity of this, I think warrants and a. That's
that's where I'll just I'll just leave it.
Speaker 1: I don't think you can give it an a plus
just because it's like it was all retention basically, like
you'd have to make like Baylor Seanman's gonna end up
being like one of their seven best players next year,
and if that happens, there's a plus. But that's just nothing.
They honestly, the only thing they did that surprise me
was sam Hauser extension, and that it makes a world
of difference because it's just like it's Sam Hauser. You
don't like that's a that's a contract, you can move,
but you can't like you've now could they I'm just
rephrasing it again. You put yourself in a situation to
where it's not just that you avoided structuring your books
to make these bold moves or these tear downs, you
actively made moves that are gonna prohibit that from happening
within the next two years.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that was a that was our quickest team.
But yeah, I think that's a no brainer.
Speaker 2: Eh.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that I was going to go that
way coming in, but just as we went through it,
it's like, if we're we gotta all we do is
is like complain when teams don't spend, and when teams spend,
we gotta hand it to them. So I think especially
one this good. So Brooklyn Nets Dan, Uh, they're everybody.
Speaker 1: I'm going to point out you you can't do it now.
You missed your opportunity to assign me a team.
Speaker 2: I No, I don't. I wouldn't do that to you.
They they're we're all sharing the Brooklyn Nets.
Speaker 1: There they are. They are America's team net.
Speaker 2: Brooklyn Nets twenty four five get in on in America.
Speaker 3: Uh, these nets traded Michel bridges Ke debates, you up
Juan Valet, whose name I have never seen before today,
and a twenty six second rounder to the Knicks. Four boy,
I'm Bogdanov. It's shake Milton Mamma de diakite, New York's
twenty five first, twenty five second, Milwaukee's twenty five first
with top four protection, New York's twenty seven first unprotected,
twenty eight first round swap, and twenty nine first unprotected
as a first and twenty three Oh jeez, we'll just.
Speaker 2: Throw it in there. Relatedly, basically gave up.
Speaker 3: I guess we can just go through it, but kind
of traded four first round assets for two uh sending
a bunch of suns picks uh to the Rockets to
get back their own twenty five and twenty six. I'm
just vamping because I can't read all this together, but
that's the gist of it right. Essentially sent four first
round assets to Houston via Phoenix for their twenty five
and twenty six picks back, which means they can tank
now and have a payout from it.
Speaker 2: What else?
Speaker 3: God's Williams took a flyer on him from the Grizzlies.
Nick Claxton got four years, one hundred million, ninety six
of which is guaranteed. Trendon Woffer signed the qualifying offer.
Keon Johnson got the two year minimum. As I scrolled
down here obvious questions, what are we gonna do with
like Cam Johnson, with Dorian Finney Smith? Is Cam Thomas
going to get an extension? Lonnie Walker and Dennismith Junior
two of our favorite or maybe mine, but probably both
of our favorite minimum signings last year currently still free agents.
So Dan a lot of fun to follow Boston with
Brooklyn because it's a very quite a bit of contrast here.
Speaker 2: What do we think about the Nets off season? I
kind of love it, but I'm curious what you think.
Speaker 1: I think it might be an a plus, I think
the only thing. And actually I was surprised at how
contentious this became. I was talking with Salmon Ali for
the Rockets look Ahead, and I posted a clip of
our conversation about basically whether Brooklyn would have made the
mcal Bridges trade without getting its own picks back. And
I said that the Knicks offered so much that I
believe even though I framed it as like getting your
own picks back was the driving force. I think they
gave up so much stuff to get their picks back
because they knew how much shit they were getting from
New York. And I ultimately think that, let's say they
don't make the mchal Bridges trade, are you prepared to
say that this team wouldn't have been like a bottom
four team in the league anyway? Maybe, but like they
still would have been like one of the six or
seven worst teams in the league, And like you would
have probably moved Downyan Finney Smith at minimum anyway, because
he's coming up on that player option. And so I
think you need to look at it that, like, I'm
just curious as to you this maybe not might not
be too related to their great but I think like
everything they did, they gave up probably too much to
get their own picks back in a vacuum, but it
bought them the ability to actually rebuild for the next
two years without having to worry about sending out a
top tier draft asset, which then prevents you from doing
something that would short circuit your long term future. Now,
were they backed into that corner because like any of
the star pursued people listed kind of faded. Donovan Mitchell
was the big one and he signs an extension with Cleveland,
and it was it was clearly headed that way. Even
before the season was over. The reporting was that he
was probably gonna sign that extension. So I like, maybe
you'd take away from the level of difficulty on it.
And with the mcale bridges trade, it's like, well, duh,
you take that offer? How much of that did you negotiate? Though?
So I'm just I want to I think this would
actually be the mark of their grade. Though. If you
tell me that the McHale Bridges trade was good enough
for them to make independent of the trade that they
made with Houston, this has to be an a plus offseason.
And so I'll ask you this, would you have made
that trade as Brooklyn without getting your own picks back?
Speaker 2: I think you have to. I think that offer was
just so good.
Speaker 3: Now now like we we could, we would still have
to be have to discuss it, and what we would
say is, well, what's the real upside here?
Speaker 2: Because they're they're gonna be bad and they're not.
Speaker 3: The ultimate payout is like you get the first pick
in the draft because you have one of the four
worst records and you win the lottery, like we would
have to discuss, Like, I mean, there's some doubt, you know,
it's there's not as much upside as there might otherwise
be if you'd only done the next thing. But they
got a premium for Bridges from the Knicks. Like, that's
a huge haul for a player we like bridges. That's
a huge hall for Bridges.
Speaker 1: It's a non They traded a non star, he's never
made an all star team for five first round picks
and one one first round swap put second round equity.
Speaker 2: Like that is, yeah, you just do crazy. You just
do that.
Speaker 3: But so like and I agree, like I've always I
keep framing it, and I said it when I was
running through these, like you gave up four first round
assets for two, So like you're paying a premium to
get your own picks back. But what you are buying
is like just a totally clear direction and like a
totally clear purpose because now you've got all this shit
from the Knicks, you like you're gonna be bad and
now there's a payoff which you just wouldn't have had otherwise.
Speaker 2: So like you get a premium, you pay a premium.
Speaker 3: Somehow that nets out still to like a massive positive
because just it simplifies everything and clarifies everything if it
removes any doubt about what you're gonna do with Finney
Smith and Cam Johnson and what anybody else. I just
I think I think your your initial question if you say, yes,
you do that NIXT trade no matter what, and then
you you pile on top of that with with getting
control of your own picks back for the next two years. Like,
I don't know how you frame it as anything but
an a plus if we're gonna fetishize the rebuild, which
we do and everybody does, like this is an a plus. First,
you know, two steps in a rebuild, right, And so
to harp.
Speaker 1: On that point about why they would have made the
move anyway optically is the only thing that matters when
you're sending out like that first round pick off, it's
already gone. It's in Houston, And so I guess if
you were to look at it, did Houston really offer
all the NETS's first round picks back to get mchel
Bridges himself and they like to not to make that trade.
That's a more interesting discussion where if you could have
gotten the same, if you could have got all your
picks back from Houston. I think you might almost still
prefer this path because of all that extra stuff from
the Knicks, who yes, they're a better franchise. I want
to make it clear, twenty nine and two and thirty
one or twenty twenty eight is very far away in
today's NBA. So just like that, like that pick is all.
But I'm looking at this forget the Nets getting their
own pickpack. Those picks are gone. What's the difference of
if you send the third pick versus the fourth, like
the tenth pick. What's the difference for you as a franchise?
Just the headlines? And so that's why I believe Sean
Marks of all people, if that was the Knicks offer
that was on the table, and I mean clearly it was,
it's what they accepted, they would have made the move anyway.
And so if you got an offer from Michale Bridges
that was so much that you make the move anyway,
even though your first round picks are owed to Houston,
it's just an a plus. And like the stuff they
did on the Margins Nick Claxton, like now they can
try a bunch of different shit with him on offense
because of the way they're structure, this deal is probably
at worst market value. Like that's if you want to
call it a CC plus move. Okay, fine, Okay, Zion Williams,
maybe you're out on him A Dallas twenty thirty second,
why the fuck not? Kyrie Ery's not super young. I
mean they have Derek Leveley and Lucas like now you
have you've just stopped like and even honestly, if I
was to pick like A a lot of people love
Jordy Fernandez, by the way, the stuff that he's been
espousing as to how the Nets are gonna try and play. It's, oh,
this team's gonna be bad, but they're gonna be fun bad,
or at least experimentally bad, and so you like that.
If I had to pick harp on something, it's I
probably would have signed Trenton Watford into an actual contract
rather than letting him sign his qualifying offer. But again,
that's someone who will have an opportunity and you can
see if you made a mistake there. So this is
an A plus offseason and I I want to know
and if you haven't answer to why it wouldn't be,
what's the argument for it not being. Is it just
because refetishize rebuilds. And it's just in this case specifically,
I'm making my own Devil's advocate, like I'm up ending
my own devil's advocate argument. It's just like the stakes
were so high for them because there was no path
out of the position that they were in.
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah right, they had no outs and they created
like that, and that's just that's that's worthy of an
A plus. If you're gonna knock it, you might just say, like,
Claxton's not worth twenty five million a year just but
I don't know what the argument is for that, because that's,
you know, that's less than Jared Allen, say, got on
his extension and Claxton, I think that's not a.
Speaker 2: Perfect but he can dribble, he can he's a better
switch defender. I think, like there's just.
Speaker 1: Jared Allen's a better pastor. I don't mean to apologies
to Jared Allen apparently, let's get that out of the way, Earl.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I but I think the Claxton deal's totally fine. Yeah,
like you said, at worst, you're gonna be able to
move that for something that's at least as good as
Nick Claxton maybe that makes even more sense to your rebuild.
Speaker 2: Yeah A plus, I just that I don't know what
else to say about it.
Speaker 1: I think we say nothing and we move on to
your New York Knicks.
Speaker 2: Take them.
Speaker 1: So then, by the way, this is the team you're
gonna see, like the kind of beginnings of stuff. And
then I will let the the slide. So you saw
the two slides. We're gonna settle on the second one
because that's where the meat potatoes are. Their offseason was,
but the Knicks did a whole bunch of shit. They
extended Tom Thibodeau three year extension through twenty twenty seven
twenty twenty eight. It's reportedly worth over ten million dollars
a year. They drafted Pacomb Dottier at number twenty five.
They turned number twenty four Tishawn George into four seconds
and Ariel Huckporty. He was number fifty eight on a
two way right now. They turned number thirty eight AJ
Mitchell into Kevin mccullar junior. That was number fifty eight.
He signed two. Uh, why do I have two number
fifty eight's there? Kevin mccullor Junior and Boss's twenty twenty
eight second round pick that was top forty five protected.
They traded three seconds, including their own in twenty and
thirty for Tyler Kohlik at number thirty four. He signed
a four year, nine point one million dollar deal, multiple
guaranteed years on that. There's a team option in twenty
seven to twenty eight, and then there's the mckal bridges trade.
Their end of it. We just went through it, but
very quickly. If your time, if you just jumped around
the time stamps. They traded Buyan Madonovich Shake Milton signed
and trade three years nine point two million, only the
first year is guaranteed. Mamadi Diakite a twenty twenty five first,
five second, Milwaukee's twenty twenty five first, top four protected,
their twenty twenty seven first, their twenty twenty nine first,
and two thousand and thirty one first, all unprotected, plus
an unprotected swap in twenty twenty eight for McHale, Bridges,
kitub hg Up, Juan Valet and twenty twenty six seconds.
That's the least favorable from Detroit, Milwaukee, Orlando. They resigned
Ojanooby for five years, two hundred and twelve point five
million dollars with a player option in year five, Jalen
Brunton extended for four years and one hundred and fifty
six point five million dollars player option on that final season,
picked up Jericho Sims's two point one million dollar team option.
They signed Precious Setuity to a one year, six million
dollar deal campaign is in Town on the one year
a minimum notable exits Alec Burks. He left one year
minimum with Miami and then Isaiah Hartenstein three years and
eighty seven million with the Thunder. There's a team option
in that deal, but the Knicks could not have matched
that deal unless they carved out cap space because they
only had his early bird right grant they get for
making me having to do so much legwork on the slides.
Speaker 3: But other than that, how are you feeling f for brevity?
I guess, uh man, so I'm trying to look like
what knits are we picking? The price for Bridges was
super high.
Speaker 1: That actually, let's let's lay this out. The mcale Bridges
trade at best is a c move because mcail Bridges
does shit for your team. You overpaid for Michael Bridges
in the assets, which is fine relative to your situation
and trying to win now, but we cannot sit here
and say, even if you view it through the context
of what is Michal Bridges worth to this team, that
this is in a vacuum like oh wow, like that
was an a buff average trade for the Knicks. I
think the only way to view it that way would
be Jalen Brunton doesn't sign this extension if you don't
do the mcau bridge.
Speaker 3: So that's where I'm going is, like I was trying
to set up that it was like it's objectively a
huge outlay to get a guy that just no, there's
not another team that was giving that up. Now, there
were all those reports of teams talking about four right
first rounders for Bridges and you know, over the last
eighteen months. I guess so if you if you're convinced
that the Brunson thing was part of it, then I
don't know. I mean, it's still hard to get out
of calling it like at best average. I think you're
probably right about that, But then like it is one
of those things where you do need to evaluate, like, well,
draft picks just don't mean the same thing to every team.
Speaker 2: So for the Knicks specifically, like this twenty.
Speaker 3: Five first if everything goes as intended, is what the
twenty fifth pick or something like that, and you can
just kind.
Speaker 1: Of go a train and do bottom ten first rounders
next year. We only had theirs in Milwaukee, right.
Speaker 3: So you go through and you can be like, h,
I guess I can come up with a lot of
reasons to devalue several of those picks and just like
look a little further than saying it's a first like
they're not all the same, so you could get that,
you could kind of, I don't know, make the case
that way.
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 3: I still I wouldn't say the Bridges deal as as
a standalone is you can't talk yourself into more than
like a C plus.
Speaker 2: I don't think even with the bruntsome part.
Speaker 3: Of it, but the brunts and part of it is
so fucking good, Like that extension is so ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Four for one fifty six left all this money on
the table.
Speaker 1: He could have signed for anyone who wants to know
five years to sixty nine point one, and I'm gonna
tell you right now, I know people won't loop him
into this level of play where anything could have happened
and he still would have gotten the money when you
look at what happened after the mckel bridges trade. He
would have gotten that money no matter what, because the
Knicks had no other options than to believe that he
could have a terrible season next year. You could go
mia and they would still need to offer him that
money because that's how important he is to the vision
that they've put together.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what about the Ananobe price little sticker shockey or
if that's just what it was gonna take.
Speaker 1: I think I don't think it's in a like they
gave him a player option, which is like seriously, like
you gave him it's submax, but like, okay, that's fine,
Like he's not. I don't think o Gianobe's a mac I.
Actually he would have gotten four year maxes on the
open market, to be clear, So you got him for
the fifth year at what would be some max money.
So I don't know what, like the annual basis that
makes it a little bit easier for you to navigate
the you know, traverse that area below the second apron
in the coming years. But I think that's another average move.
When it came to talent retention, it could be above
average in the sense of, well, this is someone, this
isn't James harden This guy had a ton of other
options on the tape, Like there would have been no less.
There are teams that didn't have cap space that would
have been prepared to create it to sign O Gananobi
for a four year max deal. So if you want
to go slop, But I wasn't. I didn't get sticker
shock at all. I was a little bit surprised that
he got the player option, if I'm being honest.
Speaker 3: So I guess, like, yeah, I wonder, is it unfair
to try to paint the Ananobe price as part of
the reason that Isaiah Hartenstein is not on the team anymore,
because like all this stuff was kind of connected to
like how could they possibly clear enough room or finagle
enough stuff to give Hardenstein. Actually they were able to
give him the most they could, and the thunder just
came over.
Speaker 1: The top right right, And I think they would have
need So it was the McHale Bridges trade that would
have thrown a wrench into those plans. And you could
have still figured out a way. But I think that
was a perfect case of look at how quickly Isaiah
Hartenstein was meeting with meeting quote unquote meeting with Okay, see,
like that's in an area. That's a situation where it's like,
oh no, like they understood his market value was going
to be more than they could give him.
Speaker 2: Yeah no then, and I don't I'm trying to find
a reason.
Speaker 1: Well here, how about how about this though? They went
for it?
Speaker 2: Like that's something that like don't we want teams?
Speaker 3: Like are the Knicks better today than they were when
the offseason started? Like oh my god, yeah, like it
costs a lot, but they're just this this team is loaded,
like there, you know, it's not perfect. The backup center
spot is a real quick I mean maybe the starting
center real question. I might be berare to give him
credit if you couldn't bring back Hartenstein. The fact that
they didn't go out and signed Taj Gibson or.
Speaker 1: Something like giving Tims that club in his bag to
play now almost means I'm not going to say it'll
become a core.
Speaker 2: Oh I know where you're going. I love it.
Speaker 1: We're going to see Julius Randald, og Ot and ob
in the front court together where og is your defensive
five and Julius Randall's your offensive five, and that however,
you want to flesh out that lineup from there, there's
honestly a chance that it's so good people are gonna
be mad that it's not playing more. I firmly believe
that because you put I think the only when you
look at it and say, okay, if we're building it out,
Julius randall Og, Michale Bridge's off rip in that lineup
non negotiable, Like he just needs to be Bill If
that's what you want to use during the with Brunton,
Without Brunton, fine, that lineup is just gonna be thermonuclear
af In my opinion, it is like we.
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't remember the last time we sort
of thought about it in these terms. But like the knock,
I mean, sure, who knows exactly how the randall Og
four or five tandem is gonna work, But the knock
against it or like why it won't happen is like, oh,
that's just not a Tibbs. Look, he just he wants
the conventional five. But the Knicks basically said like it's
your only choice, like, yeah, Mitchell Robinson will start, and
then after that, like what are you can play Jered?
How much do you really want to play Jericho Simms TIBs,
Like it's just they really Yeah, the taking the club
out of his bag or like, I don't know, deciding
what clubs are in his bag maybe is like is
like kind of genius.
Speaker 2: If that was actually the plan.
Speaker 1: And have you ever at any point felt more comfortable
about a team giving Tom Thibodeaux just a contract. It's
an extension obviously, but I just feel like over the
last season and a half, he's just done things that
have shown that he's the playing time. You could definitely
harp on it, and I think it's fair. But Jonathan
MacCray just wrote about this for Anixt Film School recently,
like there's no data to prove that TIBs has ruined careers,
Like we just haven't. We don't have that. Yeah, he
might play guys too much, and there are certain injuries
you could maybe ascribe to overuse. The Knicks last year
got to a point where they just had no bodies
through no fault of Tom Thibodeau's and that's why he
was playing who he was playing. So like, I'm fine
with them extending tib Like, at worst, that's a seam move,
Like that's which is incredible to say about where the
fan base was with Tibbs a year and a half
two years ago. I could criticize something like I like
Keishaan George a lot, but what was his path to
playing time with Josh Hart and Dante DiVincenzo and og
Ananobi And the fact that they went with Tyler Colluk
is like that's the like in a separate move, like
building up to him. That dude's passing from what we
saw in Summer League, I don't think he's gonna play
right out of the gate, Like that's okay. They If
there's anything to harp on with this team aside from
the backup center spot, I'd like to know if they
have enough B plus or better passing positionally other than
Jayalen Brunson. And like the fact that Tyler Coluk, excuse me,
colick Is is right there. That's at least somewhat refreshing
or justifiable. I don't know if you're ready for the
grade portion of this, I find myself because I appreciate
them going for it, Like in the face of, by
the way, losing Isaiah Hartenstein. So for you to say
that they're better when losing a player that was so
integral on both ends, of the floor. I think says
a lot about this team. I think I'm prepared to
go to a B plus. The thing that makes me
a little uncomfortable, aside from the backup center spot, is
they're now to me and you have to let me
know if you disagree. They feel more reliant on Julius
Randall long term because they cashed in their trade chips
on a guy who, if we are being brutally honest
as of right now, has proven that he should not
be your second best on ball option offensively. But for
this team, no, no, Now, Julius Randall needs to be
because I think he's better qualified for That's what I mean. Yeah,
and so now he has to do that because you
cast in your tips on a guy who is well like,
he's probably better off being okay and bench you and
it's fine, but like, overall, it needs to be Julius Randall,
and that's uncomfortable, not just because of his extension the eligibility,
but because of what we've seen from Julius Randall during
his two trips to the postseason with New York.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I I was, I was wondering if we
were going to go a third a range grade in
a row here. I think B plus is I'm totally
good with that. I think Hertenstein loss is big, but
that was just out of their control. So then after that,
if you're going, you know, any lower, it's just based
on you didn't like the og price, which then the
Bruns and thing I think dramatically outweighs. Like if you
just put those two guys together and combine the salaries,
it's like, well that's that's a heist, like just done
average and then maybe you just can't get past the
price for bridges either.
Speaker 2: I'm good with the B plus.
Speaker 3: I think I think the Knicks are like they were
in the position where they're very good. They had a
couple needs and they just they spent what it took,
they traded what it took, and they got better. Like
that's I guess kind of a Celtic's theory a little bit,
although they kind of went about things differently.
Speaker 1: And further, well, why isn't this an a crowd. I
think it's a hedge against like they made this call
for bridges what we respect and we mostly like overall,
but you played your best trade hand like that is gone,
it's out of it and you decided to do it
on someone who is not the conventional star. I think
that's fine, but that's also just it's a risk, and
you're hedging against that risk by saying like this package
in a vacuum probably should have netted a player better
than mcal Bridges. But I also respect that the Nicks
had waited long enough. If you want them to make
the most of this window they needed to go after.
Speaker 2: Yep, I think that's all fair.
Speaker 3: We are on to your Ouldolpia seventy six ers grant.
Another busy offseason is this? I'm surprised this isn't a
two slide set of transactions.
Speaker 1: So just really for doing their business with some succincstring.
Speaker 2: Start with the draft. No, I'm not gonna start with
the draft.
Speaker 3: They got Paul George four years, two hundred twelve million
player option on twenty seven to twenty eight, biggest offseason signing,
like was the like one of the only guys out there.
Speaker 2: They went and got him.
Speaker 3: Good, just that they paid what it took. Good for
the Sixers. They planned out, you know all this stuff.
Drafted Jared McCain at sixteen, drafted to Dean Bona at
forty one, gave him four years seven point nine million,
and got a partial guarantee on the twenty five to
twenty six year that salary. Kelly Rubay back for two
years sixteen point four million. Player option on the second.
Andre Drummond two years ten long awaited, although again a
part of the plan. Tyrese Maxi gets five years, two
hundred and four million dollars, no options on that. Eric
Gordon to your minimum, got Caleb Martin for a steal
four years thirty five million. kJ Martin back on the
Darryl Moury special. We're gonna trade you two year sixteen
million twenty five twenty six is non guaranteed there. Kyle
Lowry got the minimum, Reggie Jackson got the minimum, Gershon
Yobacele after just tearing it up in Paris, gets a
minimum signed David Jones and Jeff down to two ways.
Speaker 2: So a couple, well not a couple. They've remade this roster.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, right, I was gonna say, the biggest thing
is that they are now unbeatable in a twerking contest.
When you have Yabuselli and Kyle Lowry on the same team,
just two of the biggest asses literally, hey, plus let's
go to the Toronto Raptors.
Speaker 3: So obviously because the Sixers planned it this way to
just flip the whole roster almost outside of embiid In
Maxi Nick Batum gone to the Clippers. Tobias Harris. Sixers
fans will not be shedding tears over that one. Two
years fifty two million with the Pistons. The Anthony Melon
also gone, Buddy Healed, gone, Wave, Paul Reid, and Robert
Covington remains unsigned. So a ton of turnover here, But
you got your big three at the one, three and five.
You rounded it now again, the Sun's taught us we
cannot over value minimum signings when handing out grades. So
we're just gonna put a button on that. What do
we think about the Sixers, just the big swingers of
the offseason?
Speaker 1: This is this could have gone so poorly for them,
and it went perfectly and they are I don't know
when last time this has happened, But a team that
entered the offseason with more than fifty million in cap
space exits it in the luxury tax. That is just
like a plus plus plus cap maneuvering and even just
like if you're like, oh, like four years for Paul
George when he's gonna be thirty four years old or
whatever it is, it's all right. Like Tyrese Maxie, you
made him wait to get paid and he still didn't
get a player option. Patrick Williams got a player option
from a Bull, but Tires Maxi after waiting a year
doesn't get a player option from the Sixers. What is
what is the argument against it? Like, that's how you
have to map this out. What's the argument against against
an A plus here?
Speaker 2: I don't have it.
Speaker 3: You would have to be Paul George on the back
end of this contract will not be worth it. That's
true of like every four year deal. I mean, if
you're over thirty or whatever, Like that's just how it is.
You're paying up front and like the Maxi piece of
it is just again like that's just like there aren't
a lot of not a lot of examples where you're
just where you could tell a guy as good as
Maxi just hold on, like we'll, we'll, we'll make it right.
Speaker 2: Eventually.
Speaker 3: We're gonna wait a year longer than a lot of
your peers that you're better than. So to get buy
in there is enormous especially for Darryl Morray, who James
Harden h just just for for MAXI to trust Darryl
Morey after James Harden's like screed against him as a liar.
Last thought last season was pretty impressive. I just yeah,
it's it's an a plus and and any quibbling over
the George the back end of the George deal is like,
Joel Embiid is an MVP in his prime today and
to a greater extent than almost any really good player
in the league. Like tomorrow is not promised, so we
need to be as good as we can possibly be
in twenty four to twenty five. And everything the Sixers did,
all the pre planning, all the big swings, all the spending,
just like is in service of we need to build
a title worthy roster from basically nothing around Joel Embiid,
and I think they did that about as well as
you could realistically imagine.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find something just to like nitpickover because
I agree with everything you said. If we're at a
point where people already talking like, oh, like Yabu Sell
he could start some games at the four for them,
that's the okay, that's the sore spot where it's you
don't really want Paul George and Kayla Martin can do
it jointly together, but you'd probably prefer both of those
guys guarding wings and down rather than having to rumble
with any type of fours. But it's like the only
really resource you could say then is well the room exception.
Do you think like that could have gotten the more
runway out of that? And I don't, then Ben Kelly
Ubra and also there was untold value, not untold, but
there was more value in having Ubre back because ninety
situation where you have his early bird rights next year
or maybe his full bird rights if he decides to
opt in. And I don't think like had you like
you weren't gonna get Naji Marshall for the room exception.
He got more than that from Dallas, And so I
don't know what the name was out there that would
have been better and they could still like for all
me like me, I'm not advocating for this, but like,
do you really like Jake Crowder is like the the
other minimum option that you could have looked at. I'd
probably rather take the flyer on Yabucelli right at this point,
So I like it's an A plus and there's just
there's You cannot convince me otherwise you would have to
tell me that I don't even know that Paul George
is gonna request to trade once the trade restriction lifts
or something. I just and I did you mentioned this already,
But the fact that like Tyre's MAXI was just on
board amid James Harden calling the front office like liars
and cheaters and steelers and ass fucks or whatever they were,
I just like, I like, it just blows my mind.
Like and we talked about like it was a calculating
It wasn't even like it was calculating. It was a
massive gamble and it played out perfectly. And it's it's
even wilder because Paul George is coming from the team
that they traded James Harden too, right, So we thought,
like the whole Paul George to Philly thing, we initially
thought like, well, you just hope the Clippers get better
and increase the chances that they would just want to
keep everyone together and apparently like you might have facilitated
their undoing sos.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I it's I mean, if anything, it just
reflects poorly on James Harden because apparently he's the only
guy that didn't trust Aryl Morey. I don't know, that's
probably not true over the years. All right, uh, last
team in this division here, you and your entire cohort
of North of the Border brethrens Toronto Raptors.
Speaker 1: Look, here's my thing. I don't even know if we
need to go through all the transactions. The pick conveyed,
it turned into Stefan Castle, not Stephan Castle, Rob Dillingham,
so they get an f the pick conveyed. They shouldn't
have let it conveyed. Actually, though, drafted the Jacoby Walter
at number nineteen, drafted Jonathan Magbo at number thirty one,
then sign him to a three year, six point one
million dollar deal. There's a team option on the final season.
They traded Jalen McDaniels for Davion Mitchell, Sasha Vazankov, who
will not be reporting to the team, and Jamal shed
who was drafted at number forty five, and Portland two
twenty five second round pick. That might be like, I
know they got talent, but I'm assuming they'll trade their
way out of it. That could be like a number
thirty five pick right there.
Speaker 2: Could be three.
Speaker 1: Signed e Manuel quickly five years, one sixty two point
five million. There's two point five million in unlikely intents
per year that could bring it up to one seventy five.
They extended Scottie Barnes. He got the five year max
special two hundred and twenty four point two million dollars
can go up to two hundred and sixty nine point one.
No player option though, so he's no Patrick Williams. In
my book, Bruce Brown picked up his team option. Garrett
Temple's back on your minimum. They signed Bruno Fernando for
a minimum deal that will guarantee on opening night if
he's still on the roster. Uh, the biggest like sort
of just notable that's not gonna be on the list
that anyone sees on screen. Garret Trent Junior left Toronto
to sign a minimum with the Bucks. Another sort of
weird heat situation to where we know they offered him
an extension fifteen million dollars per year and he elected
to go to free agency, and like you got to
a point in is Toronto where I don't know if
he was willing to come back for that number, and
they just decided like well dude, we went about our
off season business, so like, this isn't We're not going
to restructure things for you. And they did have They
only have like ten and a half million dollars under
the first apron, so that would have been complicated. But
another sort of just well, like you still could have
figured out a way to keep him and you didn't.
And his shooting is important, but he ended up signing
for the minimum. This is not like went and got
actual money like Caleb Martin did. So he seemed to
misread the market and then decided like I'm gonna go
try and help a contender and.
Speaker 2: That'll reboot my value.
Speaker 1: Uh, fascinating off season for a team that really didn't
do much in terms of turnover. Though, wouldn't you say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to like get a handle on it.
Speaker 3: It'd be because like some of the stuff was decided
before the off season, Like I think quickly was just
gonna get something in this range from the moment they
traded for him Barnes, Like I feel better about Barnes
getting this than Wagner, but like it's still if you
want I'm trying to look at like if you wanted
to knock it, you might say still a little early.
I think I probably would have just given Barnes this
steal myself.
Speaker 1: They also weren't. Their flexibility is going to be different
because they had to pay a manual quickly. Now they
pay yaka perdle right, they have all j Barrett on
the books, like there was already bigger money there. And
also Scotty Barnes is better like that. That's also like,
that's what I mean, like Tyree's MAXI was at least
a level of to use an example last year if
he said like no, like you pay me now if
you're the Sixers, well we could keep him in a
restricted free agency, but we don't want to risk like
doing damage to the relationship. I would say Scotty Barnes
probably had that kind of leverage with Toronto where is
Franz Wagner did not. But anyway, shout out Franz Bodner.
We want everyone to get paid.
Speaker 2: So is there room for.
Speaker 3: Like a global or is it beyond the scope of
what we're talking about, like a global criticism of Toronto
like being different than they were last year, and maybe
like on balance younger because Siakam and og are gone
and you're building around quickly and and and Barnes and
I guess Crady Dick and like some of their other
younger guys, Like, but you're still pretty like middlely, like
as the kids would say, they're pretty.
Speaker 2: Mid which I don't say because I'm not young enough
to do that.
Speaker 3: And also that's probably like a five year old term
at this point, Like is there room to criticize that?
Speaker 2: Where enough riz enough? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Like they're not gonna be one of the four worst teams,
They're probably not a playoff team, so they're kind of
in the middle. And they do have like a couple
of big salaries on the books as it is a
plus the plus partle plus Barrett, Like are they do
we criticize them for not doing something more extreme one
direction or the other?
Speaker 1: I just don't what did that look like letting a
manual quickly walk for nothing?
Speaker 2: That there isn't really a way for them to have
done a lot different.
Speaker 1: I think if you have a problem with their offseason,
you really have a problem with like what they did
with Pascal siakam O Giannanobi, which is just not part
of this great anymore, right, And I look, could you
would you have preferred to have had Gary Trent Junior
on fifteen or like even just paid him when he
was making rather than Bruce Brown's team option. Probably, but
also picking up Bruce Brown's team option at least telegraphs
like they might be open to some trade stuff to
where they feel and not necessarily in a bad way,
but that a team that will be reactive where it's
they're being. They're not proactively doubling down or tearing it down.
They're gonna see how good they are or not, and
then they're going to react from there. And I think
there's value in like just looking at your roster, like
there's guys that you've paid, Like in RJ, they didn't
pay him, but they're paying him quickly now is Scottie Barnes.
But they also have upside, so they're getting more expensive,
but they also have upside. So I don't I don't
know that they did anything though, Like it wasn't super
creative to where you were graded as an above average
offseason though if you like Jakobe Walter, I mean that's fine,
but they had some options at their disposal and they
decided to kind of not I guess it is kick
the can like that's essentially what they did. I guess
if anything, like, how do you feel about the like
the immanual quickly deal feels like the point where it
Scotty Barnes is all right if you wanted them to wait, fine,
he would have ended up getting max money anyway, properly.
Right again, I just want to reiterate because I'm sure
there's you destroyed the magic for the way they went
about Franz Wagner. Freanz Haardner wasn't in the most improved
player discussion. Scotty Barnes was and might have won it
had he never gotten injured. So that's the deal that
I'm like kind of looking at. And I'm like the
theory of him, the off the dribble, three point shooting,
the off ball three point shooting, the stop on a
whim floater, the defensive hustle that he brings. The question
is can he be an actual floor general? And I
think the lodg dribble playing still needs to get better.
And I'm just like, well, you have to go look
at it as a percentage of the salary cap now,
and like this thing isn't gonna be twenty five percent
of the salary cap. Ever, so I feel like this
is probably an average off season. There's nothing.
Speaker 3: I like, there's things that I might have done differently,
but like you could look at the Bruce Brown like
that I might have tried to do, Like maybe I
would have operated with.
Speaker 1: Cap space, but like who did you want them to
go get?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think too, Like, so for Quickly, is it
plausible to argue if you're gonna try to knock this
down below a sea overall? Could you make the case that,
like you didn't, nobody else was gonna go above this
number for him? Like you could have just let, you know,
let this marinate a little bit longer and kind of
decide like just gotten gotten answers to the questions that
you outlined about his game, his fitness in this particular role,
Like is that Yeah, I guess you could have done that.
But I mean, again, like the CAP's going up and
I don't know, I don't know that the possible savings
and like, by the way, if you I guess, like
it's kind of a problem if it turns out that
like Quickly is actually worth way less, you know than this,
But like I don't really know, I don't know, just
kind of kind of searching for like a reason because
it does on its face, and maybe again this is
just not understanding things in terms of percentage of the
cap and looking at raw dollar totals and being anchored
to like four and five years ago rates.
Speaker 2: It feels a little high just for what he's been
and what he is.
Speaker 3: But maybe it's not, and maybe this just was what
it was gonna cost no matter what, and the downside
of doing it now is not that great. Like so
I'm trying to get off of a sea, but this
just feels like a c I think.
Speaker 1: I think it's a See. The only other thing that
I would say is that what they could have done
this gets into the road not traveled in theory, like
Gary Tren Junior would have had a been a medical
if you could have gotten Garry Trent Junior back for
like fifteen million a year by because he accepted a minimum,
So like that's substantially more right, and then you could
have used most of your mid level while staying under
the tax. Would you have preferred that to just having
Bruce Brown? Basically that would have but I don't know,
Like I don't know how uninterested Gary Trent Junior was
in remaining with Toronto because like, would they have had to,
I think I probably would have preferred to have Gary
Trent Junior on this roster. I'm not gonna lie and
then use your mid level like a Naji Marshall would
have helped them and they could have paid him more
than Dallas in that scenario. But I just don't know
how realistic it and none of these players that I'm
sort of just like Naji Marshall plus Gary Trent Junior,
which again we don't know if either of those players
would have wanted to have come back for what Toronto
could have offered or come to Toronto for what they
could have offered versus Bruce Brown. It's not like this
big enough missed opportunity for me to say that's a
C minus or a D plus.
Speaker 3: Well, and yeah, and there's enough uncertainty there, like one,
what are they gonna get for Bruce Brown at some
point like don't know? And then also don't really know,
like that Gary Trent relationship might just have been broken,
like there may have been just no scenario where he's
back potentially Like so yeah, like I get it if
you if if you're going below a sea, I think
your those are your points.
Speaker 2: You make, but I can't quite get there.
Speaker 1: Actually the only going to go below a see into
a C minus for them, just because like there are
really worth so many, Like looking at what some of
these players got paid, like Simoni Fontechio, like they get
like that's someone that there were so many Malie Beasley
because like you're losing Gary Trent Junior, why not get
is just like yeah, just swap.
Speaker 2: Just minimum minimum swaps.
Speaker 1: So I just feel like they were because this team
does need spacing around its core still, right, just because.
Speaker 2: Grady Dick is too important, you know, like he matters too.
Speaker 1: But now it's like you kind of treated this as like, oh,
the shooting we saw some r J Barrett last year
with Toronto was real, and as Nick fans will tell you,
it might not be. And then like Scottie Barnes is
shooting improvement in real is real, which I would agree
that it is, but like he wasn't thirty nine percent
on eight attempts per game and hitting all these pull
ups like throughout the year. So this team still has
that spacing question mark, and there were avenues for them
to get better in that department without doing anything like ridiculous. Now,
if you're if you sat here and told me Garret
tren Junior was never coming back, then it's all right, Well,
you still could have paid Bruce Brown more but less
by just declining the team option and then still turned
around and maybe use most of the maybe he would
have left for like a different path, like another team there.
But here's what, here's why I'm giving them a C minus.
I don't think they were creative enough, is what it
feels like. And that's just slightly below average from me.
Speaker 3: They are they we established up front. They are your
Toronto Raptors. So I'm gonna concede to you and and
oh we're gonna go see my I was gonna give
them a sea for the podcast. I'm gonna co sign
a C minus because they're yours and I value your opinion.
We move on now to a new division, the Central Division.
Speaker 2: We got the Chicago Bulls. Here. I will I will
claim ownership of my Chicago Bulls.
Speaker 1: Just really sure.
Speaker 3: So that my criticisms will really resonate because I've claimed ownership.
Uh traded Alex Crusa for Josh Giddy and what else, Dan,
Did they get anything else? No, No, they did not
the right to extend Josh Giddy that came with him
drafted modest Bizillis at number eleven. Patrick Williams got five
years and ninety million with a player option, which we've
referenced several times already today. Jalen Smith got three years
twenty seven million, signed and traded Demarta Rozen. He got
three years just under seventy four million, fifty eight point
two which is guaranteed from the Kings for Chris Duarte
a twenty five second, a twenty eight second and Raikwan
Gray that was via San Antonio signed to Domasonogo and
DJ Stewart to two ways. Andre Drummond departs, goes to
Philadelphia for two years ten million. Tory Craig picked up
his player option, Dan, what's up with the Bulls? How
do we feel about this offseason?
Speaker 2: Some positive signs sortos, but also some not so positive ones.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you listened to the Bulls look Ahead.
We did with Jason pat yet, but it was so
bleak and dreary, and I just felt so bad. I
think the positives on this is the Bulls are clearly
like kind of rebuilding, like you can't get rid of
Caruso and Rozen and expect to get better better then
again it's the Bulls, and so then they kind of
feel like they're the same. And the fact that they're
talking about Josh Giddy is there like Lonzo ball replacement.
It's like, well, you know that's different because Lonzo Ball
could shoot and defend and Josh Giddy does, uh, maybe
half of those things. If you want to, like believe
in the set three pointer during the regular season but
not the playoffs. I just here's my thing, and I do.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: The Demarta Rosen stuff is weird because we could say
that they could have gotten more for him if they
just moved him before free agency. We're probably right. It
wasn't easy to find a fit for Demarta Rosen to say, oh,
he definitely would have gotten you a first round pick.
But you know who would have gotten you multiple first
round picks, Alex Caruso. And so you took Andre Drummond,
DeMar Derozen and Alex Caruso three of your what six
seven most important players last year, and you got exactly
zero first round picks for them on the way out.
That is disgusting. Asset management. And now you're at a
point where are you fashioning your offense around Josh Giddy
And what does that do to Kobe White. I guess
he's good enough off the ball to where putting the
ball in Josh Giddy's hands is whatever. I'm fine with
the Patrick Williams deal. You didn't win that negotiation.
Speaker 3: Patrick Williams, of all people, got a player option. I
want to know what the offer was out there.
Speaker 1: If you just said no player option, sorry, that he
would have been like, oh, I'm gonna go elsewhere. Then
I just this is the fact that they're rebuilding is
a good thing. But the fact that I can't guarantee
that that's actually what they think they're doing or feel
good about it is a disaster. And I actually like
the modest Bousellis pick, So that's like the that's the
good and I think Jalen Smith three years and twenty
seven million is fine. However, why make that decision before
figuring out the Demard like You could have been the
team that got like regardless of what you think they
could have gotten for Demarta Rosan. Previously, you put yourself
in a situation where you either didn't want to or
couldn't take on Harrison Barnes because of tax concerns, and
san Antonio got the best non demort rows and trade
asset in that deal. They actually honestly got the two
best ones because Harrison Barnes is better than Chris Duarte.
So I just what is like you could talk to
me out of an F minus, but like, I just
what is the what's the upside? Like you have to
be a believer in modest Bruzellis and Josh Giddy and
it's I'll believe in one of those dudes, especially with
It's just like, even if Josh Gitty's good, the reward
at the end of the tunnel is a nine figure
deal for someone who can't be the face of your rebuild.
Speaker 2: So the bulls are new at this and they don't
totally know how it works yet. So I think we
need to be a little look there.
Speaker 3: They think, they think they think this is what a
rebuild starts, as uh and like more you know, baby steps.
I think like part of this is they just don't
have the ability to do a more complete job, which
would involve Vucevic being gone, which would involve zach Lavine
being gone. By the way, I think zach Lavine is
now undervalued. I think I think there's a good chance
that he's good enough for a couple months to start
the season to where they will get something for him
and not have to give up assets to move him.
Speaker 1: I think that's a possibility in the Bulls' defense here,
If that's actually zach Lavine's trade value, then he is
right where he should be. You're not attaching anything to
move zack Lavine.
Speaker 2: You cannot write I totally agree with that.
Speaker 3: You cannot be giving shit up to move off of
a contract you signed this recently. It's so yeah, like
that's kind of beside it, Like they just aren't in
a position to move either of those guys. They put
themselves in this spot, so they're culpable for it. But
like I just, uh, they don't really quite understand how
this works. Like you have to get picks for Cruso,
you had the opportunity to get picks for Cruso Giddy,
Like it's what's the what's the best case for the
Giddy acquisition?
Speaker 2: He's awesome and.
Speaker 3: You maxim right like that, I don't feel like that's
a great Like, look, I guess if he's worth a max,
then something spectacular has happened and you're you're good with it,
But like the realistic outcome is you probably feel somewhat
obligated to pay him more than he's gonna be worth
because you gave up Cruso to get him, and there's
some face saving involved there, Like you can't there is
there a scenario where Josh Getty's bad this.
Speaker 2: Year and they're just like, nah, we're done right.
Speaker 1: Honestly, you know what makes this ten times worse? They
traded him to a team that has all the first
round picks.
Speaker 3: You could have just written in like it also four
first round picks, and it would have been like that's
a weird clerical error. Oh well, like let's just look,
we want Caruso.
Speaker 1: Who cares.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they wouldn't have missed him. I mean, I'm trying
to find a reason not to just just this is
just an f They moved on from DeRozan, but it
was too late and they were too cheap to take
back Harrison Barnes and get that pick, right, they probably
could have picked away with the with the swap, right,
I'm it's for sure in f if you really want
to go F minus. I support it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give them an F minus, but we'll meet
in the middle ground with an I just feel like
it needs to be on the record that this organization
is fucking shameful and I feel I think they're probably
Bulls fans that will disagree with us. I feel terrible
for Bulls fans. And you can call me all the
names you want, make fun of my piercings, my polish,
my face, my forehead, my nose, get it all out.
This is this is the space that just come at
me because I honestly feel bad for you. There's just
nothing to root for with this team. It does seem
like we can't even sit here and guarantee that they're.
Speaker 3: Gonna be bad enough to just like by the way,
they're net negative in the first round pick department technically
because they owe the top ten protected pick to San
Antonio and they will be bad enough probably to keep it.
Speaker 1: But it's like, are they gonna continue to be bad? Okay,
then it's top a protected this season that it's like
we're getting into territory where do you trust the Bulls
to be bad to the right kind of bad so
that they get to keep this pick year over year,
and so, like you said, I guess they're new with
this and have no idea what the fuck they're doing.
But to make it that apparent that they have no
idea what at least try to fake it. What do
you think I do for two hours every single week
when we talk about the NBA.
Speaker 2: My god, you haven't watched the game since twenty thirteen.
Speaker 3: No, I think, like, somewhere in here, if you want
to be as charitable as possible, you could say, like
they are. They do seem to have a mind towards
let's get a little younger, which is like a rebuilding characteristic,
But it's just And the other thing is it's so
hard for them to really go all the way into
a rebuild because of decisions they made prior to this
most recent offseason. So it's like, but you can't let
them off the hook for that because they they did
this to themselves, and so it should be hard to
get out of this situation as like as the ill
conceived as this one.
Speaker 1: I take your point about like prior decisions contributing to
this situation, but they made active choices to make this
current situation with the opportunity they had worse, the whole
Harrison Barnes stuff, not getting that pickswap and stun get
any first round equity for Alex Caruso.
Speaker 3: Like, I just my god, it's an F. Let's let's
call it an F and with like a parentheses F
minus just because it's that bad.
Speaker 1: So we will go on to the Cleveland Cavaliers, who
like talk about an offseason filled with talent retention, right,
so the Cavs, and as we're recording this, let's get
to the note that's like kind of undefined. I even
included it in the screen, which we haven't done, like
unfinished moves or exits. The Isaacacorro restricted free agency standoff ongoing.
Apparently they fired JB. Bickerstaff, hired Kenny Atkinson, drafted Jaalen
Tyson at number twenty. Dono Midgell extended three years, one
hundred and fifty point three million. He has a twenty
seven to twenty eight player option. Evan Mobley five years,
two hundred and twenty four point two million, can go
up to two sixty nine point one no options on that.
Jared Allen, this was the extension that surprised me. Three
years ninety point seven million dollars fully guaranteed. He's now
signed through his age thirty season. Emmy Bates, by the way,
is back on a two way. This isn't interesting because
we talked about how you can't necessarily grade teams favorably
for talent retention. I do think you can when like
the Evan Mobley extension, that's not an a move because
like it was just whatever, the don Image extension, when
you're worried about him leaving and there's no guarantee that
he was gonna sign anything. That's something you can create
as above average. It wasn't the full four years, but
you now have him under team control for an additional three.
That's a big deal. And I would even argue the
Jared Allen contract, which I just assumed was like the
offshoot of like, oh, look at what Isaiah Hartenstein got,
I might be on that level, but even he had
to concede like he doesn't have control over that third year.
Like it felt like a like a response to oh,
like the non star market at First Centers is just
kind of bizarre. I'm gonna take this money that legitimately
surprised me, and I think that ends up being a
good deal, whether it's to keep or to trade for Cleveland.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if you know this, but we're
not allowed to weigh in on Jared Allen's financial situation
based on our history.
Speaker 1: So I have no comment with a commentor who said
that when we had a cat when we were talking
about the Cavs or one of the things like, weren't
you the guys you didn't like the Jared Allen extension.
It's people are wrong. We've we literally apologized for it
at the end of almost everything.
Speaker 2: No, the Mitchell thing, you're totally right about that.
Speaker 3: It's like you're paying one hundred and fifty million dollars
for Donovan Mitchell, but also for like silence, which is
super valuable after spending like every second of his tenure
with the team listening to people like me saying like
I just I think they're gonna have to blow this up.
Speaker 2: They're not gonna be able to recoup. You can't.
Speaker 3: You can't let him get towards an expiring situation because
then you're value. So now we don't have to listen
to that anymore, and that's worth something. In addition to
the production, Donovan Mitchell provides on the floor, and like,
I think Kenny Atkinson gonna get another crack at this.
I think he generally impressed in Brooklyn until he was
not the coach that served and superstars wanted, which doesn't
seem like a hymn problem based on how other coaches
were treated in Brooklyn by mostly the same superstars. So
I think that's an upgrade. I mean, it's nothing, there's
nothing crazy here because it is talent retention, but it's
not like a Celtics level talent retention. But it's still
like this is in the B range, I think, and
you could talk me into higher.
Speaker 1: So two things, It's this has nothing to do with
what you just said, but the fact that they have
their top four guys who are all All Star caliber,
if you want to frame it that way, under contracts
for at least the next three years, like Donovan Mitchell
is the one that can reach free agency first in
twenty twenty seven. That is an incredible position to be
in and we just never really see it anymore. But two,
I'm wondering how you feel about this offseason knowing that
you I think we all thought something I kind of
thought Jared Allen was going to be traded this just
based off the hit piece from the Athletic. You were
actively advocating for them to shake it up though, So
how do you feel about their offseason knowing that was
your dance leading into the offseason.
Speaker 3: I think, well, the main reasons, or maybe it's just
reason that I thought a breakup was, you know, you
kept giving me the over under of I think like
one point five of the four being gone, and I
kept taking the over. It was all just I really
thought Mitchell was not going to sign this extension and
was going to put the Calves in a position where
the best decision was going to be to get something
for him before his value started to decline, because your
trade partners would have been limited had he not signed
this extension, because they would have had the same fears
that Cleveland would have had, which is like, what are
we gonna rent this guy for a year or a
portion of a year and then he's going to sign
where he wants to in free agency? Like that to
me just felt like there was so much smoke that
there had to have been a fire, and just like
logically for him it's like, yeah, I want to go
play where I choose to go, I was traded to Cleveland. That's,
you know, just all that really informed my opinion. I
think there's also the question of and we're going to
get an answer now because like you said, these guys
are under contract forever, Like how how well does this
too small slash too big front court or quartet like work?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: That was less of a concern for me because the
Calves were winning fifty games and looking like a pretty
dangerous playoff team with those guys, and then still doing
that last year when half of them were hurt all season.
Speaker 1: So I feel I.
Speaker 3: Feel like the Calves are gonna be This is gonna
be at a year where they're at least as good
as they've been at any point in the last two
and maybe better, just because they have the stability hopefully
everybody's healthy. I do think they're still upside here if
Evan Mobley expands his game, if Garland bounces back. So like,
while I did advocate for breaking it up, that was
just based on like I didn't think Mitchell was gonna stick,
and I thought they were gonna get to a point
where they had to do something. So now that he's there,
I think the talent is legit, and I think there
is a possibility it'll work. Okay, So yeah, I feel
pretty good. I guess about it, even though I thought
it was gonna get nuked pretty consistently.
Speaker 1: I if we had to quibble on one thing here,
would you have rather just used and they could have
technically done like both, but we like the financial realities
of it, not done both in full. But my question
is would you rather be waiting out this Isaacakorro situation
or have just used your non tax payermid level like
if I think it depends on like would you rather
have had some Mony Fontachio than him on this team?
Or would you rather have had not?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Those are the two guys I'm just gonna keep coming
back to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Marshall just to get that guy who
might you could throw at wings, which they still just
don't really have, unless you're gonna just have Mobilely do
that all the time, which.
Speaker 2: I guess he could do. But you know, they're still
just a Chorro does not fill the like, oh my god, this.
Speaker 3: Is the perfect fifth guy right like, doesn't fill that
need like he some of it, he does, some of
it he doesn't.
Speaker 2: That's why he's in the position he's in.
Speaker 3: Fontechio would have brought the shooting, like, oh my god,
that the spacing would have been so awesome there and
decent enough defender Marshall is a fit, but like I
don't know, I'm I'm that I'll put it this way,
I'm not gonna let that like hypothetical really knock the
grade down much at all. Are are you you asked
the question, are are you kind of feeling more like
there's a missed opportunity?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm out on the Isaaca Coro experience. I think
he'll be a very valuable regular season player, which to
be clear, is is valuable like eating up those minutes.
But it's just I haven't seen it, Like it's just
not gonna happen for him in the playoffs with this roster,
and I don't know who the name would have been. Again,
that would be the fair point. But like, honestly, I
go this route because I'm I would have rather had
Gary Trent Junior on this team.
Speaker 2: Or like Melton. You could have Melton only signed for
one year you could.
Speaker 1: Offer then you're like super like you're even smaller than
if you're a Garret Trent Junior.
Speaker 3: But I mean like with his shooting, like he's not
that much smaller than a Chorro, you could still throw
him at three's potentially.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's you're.
Speaker 1: Probably better at guarding up than a Korro is too. Yeah,
so yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go. But I probably
value what they did with the extensions more than you
did specific the Allen and uh because the mobile ones,
whatever you could have. They're a team that it's I
like they didn't need to wait because they were never
gonna have cap space. So it's like they're even more
so than like Toronto and Orlando. But I look at
the the Donovan Mitchell and like, by the way, not
getting a player like Patrick William's got a player option,
Evan Mobley didn't. We're replicated to mention that, right, So uh,
I think a bee is probably right and we need
to see, like maybe there's a chance the Isaac korstuff
swings me because the deal is just so much of
a steal. But reports have them offering like I think
between eight and twelve million is all the different numbers
I've seen, So if that's the money he's coming back on,
if it's eight or something. But like, what if he
ends up just signing his qualifying offer. I don't know.
I don't think he's good enough to do that.
Speaker 3: But I would have preferred the road not traveled, which is, hey,
this is a good team that could theoretically offer you,
if not a starting spot, then a closing lineup spot,
and they had the mid level to spend.
Speaker 1: I feel like that was a missed opportunity.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm tempted to go like B plus just because
I the Mitchell thing it was such a so divergent
for my expecations were in a good way.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it does. You do make a good point
about like that.
Speaker 3: Is a real rotation slash starting closing spot that you're
kind of like screwing up with with the a Koro situation.
So I think a B is fine for me. But
again I would just reiterate like the Mitchell extension was
very much for me, like I'll believe it when it
when the ink is dry, and like they did it.
You know, I don't think that was a foregone conclusion
at all.
Speaker 2: So good job by them.
Speaker 1: We are on too. Now your team, Okay, JB.
Speaker 3: Bicker, Steph, who are already going to grade them with
an A plus like we did last year, only to
have to you know, retreat back to would we have
to give me?
Speaker 1: I think we should just do.
Speaker 2: It every year.
Speaker 1: So JB.
Speaker 3: Bicker Staph who coached the team we just talked about,
now coaches this one. He replaces Monty Williams, who is
getting paid give me that another by the way, consecutive
all seasons giving out coaching contracts that are a half
decade or longer. That's you know, you gotta double down sometimes,
but yeah, money Williams just that that didn't work, and.
Speaker 2: So he correct. Correct decision, correct decision.
Speaker 3: We can agree to move on and not necessarily easy
in some ways, but not easy in others because they're
gonna py him a lot of money to not coach
the team.
Speaker 2: Tobias Harris got two years.
Speaker 3: Fifty two million, Kate Cunningham got that five year max
obviously has the escalators in it. They can get it
up to sixty nine point one the low end to
twenty four point two. So traded Quinton Grimes for Tim
Hardaway Junior, A twenty five second via Toronto, a twenty
eight second via Miami, and another twenty eight second coming
from either the Clippers or Charlotte, whichever is least less favorable.
Traded Cam Spencer for Wendell Moore and Bobi Clintman.
Speaker 2: Since their draft. Oh, Malik Beasley that was the other one.
Speaker 3: Got a one year six million dollar deal brought back
Simoni Fontechio just on an a plus everybody loves a deal.
Two year sixteen million got Paul Reid claimed him after
the Sixers waived him. Two year sixteen point seven million left.
Both of those are non guaranteed years.
Speaker 2: And let's see.
Speaker 3: Oh h James Wiseman gone got two years four point
eight from the Pacers. Declined Evan foury as team option
and declined Chimizy Metsu's team options. So Dan, the Detroit
Pistons spent a little money on vets, spent a little
to retain a vet.
Speaker 2: I think we both love and uh oh drafted uh
Ron Holland I don't I don't have that on here?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sorry about that?
Speaker 2: What else? Yeah? So?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: What do we think about this? Is it? I mean?
Speaker 3: Do we?
Speaker 2: Is we guess? Spoiler?
Speaker 3: We probably aren't going a again here, but I don't know.
I kind of could talk myself into a lot of
this stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so, I'm like pulled in a bunch of
different directions. So I don't I think that they didn't
get enough for taking on Tim Hardaway Junior. Like the
fact that they gave up Quentin Grimes to me was
still bizarre. And you saw Reggie Jackson basically making a
third of what Tim Hardaway Junior makes went for the
same like pick equity cost like just wild. I think
Kate cunning him extension is fine, But this is another
situation where if we want to be fair and we
did this to Orlando like their team because of their flexibility,
Like that's something that definitely could have waited. Now, you
could also argue, unlike Orlando, they are just so barren
of options, that's let's just lock down the guy that
is our actual tent pole, cornerstone. So I understand the logic,
they're a little bit more. That's not I don't view
it as an above app no no player option though
Patrick Williams got one though, I mean I hadn't heard
uh at the Jamie Picker Steph Higre's fine. I like
the Molie Beasley and Simonti font Tachio deals are a
home run. I don't love the idea of claiming Paul
reid Off waivers because I just feel like, even if
it's slightly you've now decided that, oh maybe Isaiah Stewart
still will play some minutes at the four, and I
just don't want to see that anymore. But like, I
don't hate this. Like here's how I look at it.
Even if you don't love any of the deals or
the players, they have a very easy pathway to fielding
Caid Cunningham plus shooting in a bunch of core lineups. Now,
the problem is those core lineups really don't consist of
any of their other prospects, whether it's Ron Holland, Asar Thompson,
Jalen Duran. I mean, you don't expect that from a
big So it's really the jade and ivy of it all.
Plus Ron Holland and sar Thompson. Still, we want to
see where Kay Cunningham can be with stable spacing, and
even though the numbers don't support it, actually think he's
shot worse with some money font Taxio on the floor.
The spacing is just better for them now, and so
I think that they went about that process fine and
the Tobias Harris stuff. I think it's a potential to
be really good for them, and I'm gonna I'll continue
to cite her. But like Caitlin Cooper uses the term
sole tax to describe kind of a situation that's so
far gone it clouds how good a.
Speaker 2: Player can actually be.
Speaker 1: It felt like sole tax was at play with Tobias
Harrison Philly and so not expected him to be better.
And the reason you give him so much money is
because you're the Detroit Pistons, And that's how much money
you need to pay to get people who don't suck
to come play for your team. Do I think it's overkill?
I think it might be just because, like someone Techyo
got eight million, and is Tobias Harris right now worth
four times three times as much as maybe? Probably not?
Speaker 3: Is Tobias Harris objectively for sure a better player than
Simoney fontech Yo right now?
Speaker 2: Okay, Like, let's that's a conversation.
Speaker 1: He has more self creation skills probably still, which is
a big deal. But I don't I'm probably in the sea.
I mean, it's weird because I love.
Speaker 3: Absolutely love two of the deals that they signed, and
I actually by the way, and I'm not just like,
I'm not just glizzing or glazing.
Speaker 1: Excuse you, I'm not just glazing here, grant. I actually
really like Bobbie Clintman. Like it's just like, That's why
I also don't like the Paul Read edition, because I'd
like to see them just give Bobie Clintman a bunch
of minutes, like, hey, let's have another stretch big on
the floor. Maybe you argue that Paul Reid is a
stretch big. I don't know how I feel about that,
but I probably could go here's what I'll say. You
could probably tell me a new A C plus B
minus range. Because they had all this cap space and
people will worry that they were gonna do something that
actively hamstrung them for more than a year or two,
and they did not. They very clearly said this is
we're doing this on a year by year basis right now,
which is the right move when you have so many
unknowns on your roster.
Speaker 2: Couple things. The Bicker staff higher leaves me a little cold.
Speaker 3: I almost wish they'd sign someone that had not had
a head coaching job before as opposed to like a retread.
I don't know, I don't know why I feel that way.
It just maybe it would have signaled more of a
I don't know, a belief that like we really are
still kind of at ground zero with a lot of
this and that. I mean, I guess if you in
tandem with like veteran signings like Harris and bringing Fontechio
back and adding read, I guess like that is sort
of like a unified kind of way of thinking. It's
just like I know that we're gonna do another retread.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: That didn't That didn't inspire me. And then again, the
Grimes Hardway trade is bizarre. I feel like you should
get those three seconds just for taking hard Away back
without giving anything up, Like I know that's not how
trades work, but Grimes, I think is actually I like
Quentin Grimes. I think he actually has like positive value
as opposed to a way to get a terrible contract
and then some seconds. So those are my knits to pick.
It's still like there's nothing fatal performed here. And to
your point about which I agree with, about all the
best prospects on this team like just don't seem to
be helpful to Kate cad Cunningham, Like that's a real issue,
but it's not one that they created this offseason, so
it's like they sort of did the best they could
to have, Like, well, here's the other way we play,
where you have veterans that can shoot around Caid, which
is at least because he's kind of the only.
Speaker 2: Guy you're semi sure about. They seem very sure.
Speaker 3: They gave him the max, Like you got to give
this guy at least a couple of looks that aren't
just like, well here's the star Thompson and j and
Ivy like not spacing and it's impossible for you to function.
So I don't know, I can't get too inspired to
go you want to go above average? You feel like, like,
what what's the number one thing that nudges this above
a flat sea for you?
Speaker 1: I the Molite Beasley deals and Simoni Fontachio deals are
frigging steals. And I guess you could say the Malik
Beasley deal is it's one year, so they're not gonna
have bird rights on him, So like how much how
valuable is that? I guess that's because if you're the Pistons,
part of value might be, well, if we could have
gotten him for multiple years. They're also have you know,
their financial outlook is okay, like we still might just
have the money to sign him anyway, So I don't know.
I so like what do you want to go to?
Like what is your.
Speaker 3: I just keep getting stuck on a flat sea because
there's enough like the Beasley and Fontecio signings are positive,
as the Harris is whatever. Don't love the bicker Staff signing.
You know what, maybe a C plus because our guy
John Wasserman had Ron Holland as his number one overall
draft prospect. If I forgot to include him and even
are like we have a doc for anyone listening that's
like off, but.
Speaker 1: Not on the screen. I don't have, Like that's an
egregious Well I'm one person, so like everyone forgive me.
And we did factor him in eventually, but it's just
leaving him off. He's so bad that I didn't even
include him on there out there.
Speaker 3: It's like a weirdly he's a weirdly forget like as
you you know, you try to keep trying just commit
to memory, like the top however many picks and it's like.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the pistons got around Holland, and I.
Speaker 3: Think to their credit, he is like based on what
his projected weaknesses are as a shooter particularly, it's like, man,
that's just doubling down on like a real deficiency or
roster and your young players already have. But if you
think he's the best player available, like and and certainly
someone much smarter than us about the draft did think that,
I'm good with it. I prefer that to them being
like we got a draft Dalton connect or we got
to reach for someone like that just to go because
that's that's what we need.
Speaker 2: It's like, no, you need everything.
Speaker 3: So I think maybe I'll go to a C plus
on the on the like clear thinking that led to
the Holland pick or maybe not clear, but like the
boldness I guess of taking Holland, which is funny too,
because I was gonna kind of concede that, like we
could go to a sea because I didn't feel like
super strongly about my C plus. Well, I'll be the
one I keep I keep being influenced by you, so
I'm I'm gonna mandate we go C plus.
Speaker 1: So but you literally just went with my grade. Yeah
that's right side you. How's that for having a backbone.
We are on to your Indiana Pacers. That's a team
that I think you'll feel take about Clay me ownership
of They are my team to go through though. So
They drafted Tristan Newton at number forty nine. He signed
a two way. Drafted in ri K Freeman at number
fifty signed a two way. They traded Juan Nunez number
thirty six and cash for Johnny Furfey, who is the
number thirty five pick. He signed a four year, eight
point six million dollar contract, the first two years of
which are guaranteed. I actually like Johnny Furfey, by the way.
I think he could do some stuff for them. Pascal
Siakam four years, one hundred and eighty nine point nine
million max. No options. OBI Toppin four years fifty eight
million plus two million and unlikely incentives that can get
to sixty no options on that deal extended. Andrew Nemhard
got three years with at the eight point seven million.
He's now signed through twenty twenty seven. Twenty eight, They
signed James Wiseman for two years basically at the minimum
five hundred thousand dollars is only guaranteed for the first
year James Johnson back on the minimum. Notable exits Jalen
Smith got twenty seven million from the Chicago Bulls, and
then Doug McDermott remains unsigned. How do you feeling about
their offseason, Grant.
Speaker 3: So, Johnny Furfey, Notwithstanding, this is about the Siacam deal,
the top end deal, and the nem Hard deal, Right,
I think those are our three like real like points
to consider here. Siakam, that's exactly what he was gonna get,
what he should have got like that, that was you know,
the four years one to eighty nine, didn't get an option.
That's that is the correct amount to pay him. Nobody
was gonna beat that. The Pacers didn't have to go
higher to keep him. So I think that's that's above average.
I guess just because they could have gone longer, right,
they could have given him that fifth year.
Speaker 2: Do I have I solve?
Speaker 3: Like my memory is yeah, yeah. So I think that's
a small win, even though I think a lot of
people would say that's not a contract, it's going to age. Well,
the top and deal I just objectively don't like very
much because I don't know one who was going to
beat that number. And two the whole, like, well, what
are we doing with Jaris Walker? Is he getting in
the way of that? What else could we have used
that money on? There's some real path not taking options there.
I'm fine with the nm hard deal. I really like him.
You could say that, like, well, his playoff performance is
what got him this, and that's partly true. Was just
better in the playoffs than he was during the regular season.
I think he's a really good fit next to Tyres Halburton.
But again, if you're worried about Benedict Matheren, no Hard marginalizes.
Speaker 2: Him to some extent.
Speaker 3: So I think, ultimately, well, let me ask you, what
do you think about the top end deal, because that's
the one I feel like maybe I'm not in the
majority on.
Speaker 2: Of being like, I just don't think that was the
right choice.
Speaker 1: I don't understand it, Like he was fine as a
floor runner and spacer for them, but who was giving
Like you gave him more than the mid level. Who
was giving him that? And I just you also complicated
like a pathway to finding Jaris Walker a regular role
unless your plan is to eventually move on from Miles
turn in which case, like that doesn't that just means
that Oham's gonna play more five and so that's how
we open up time for Jaris Walker. I guess you
can view, okay, Jarvis Walker can be developed as a wing.
I just don't view him as a wing at either
end of the floor really, So that's just really weird.
I just I need to know, like, what was the
market for Obi toppin that you felt that this was
the contract you needed to give him. So that's a
below water deal for me, without question. I think the
Siakam and mhar deals are like home runs, so and
the James Wiseman Flyers like kind of fine, but it
also makes you wonder, Okay, so how do they feel
about Isaiah Jackson? And like, I guess we're never like
so we just decided that Siakam and topping her four's
and I just I'm very I feel good about the
Indiana Pacers, but it's this like the secondary part of
their rosters all sorts of it's not logjammy ambiguous, like
because you know the players, but it's like, well, I
don't really know what the vision is for how they
kind of want to play outside of their core lineups.
And you mentioned the Ben mcmatherin stuff already, Andrew Nemhart
is just better. So like that's fun, Like that's this
is still a home run deal for me. But you
haven't you did nothing this offseason. I'll say, like, let's
not frame it through the Andrew Nemhart extension. You didn't
do anything in this off season that streamlines his path
or fit on this team.
Speaker 3: So to summarize, topping Bad, Nemhard good, Siakam just what
it should have been. And then the Topen and Nemhard
deals come with the added potential complication of like you're
kind of, you know, slotting guys in over the top
of players you've invested like real draft equity in. It
sounds like we're angling towards a blow average grade. Does
that feel right?
Speaker 1: Buckle up because we're about to go even more below average. Yeah.
They're a team where the road not travel bothers me.
They clearly needed like another wing who could defend, and
they could have used the non tax payer mid level
even Simoi Fontakion. I'm just gonna mention Simooni Fontachyo Naji
Marshall eight times over for this team. Fontakian doesn't fit
the defensive billing of course, but like why was that
not on the table for them? It was we had
to bring back Top, Like you could have even done
something like had Obi Top and.
Speaker 3: Signed for twelve million, like as a starting salary, you
could have in theory like had a little bit more
wiggle room to use something.
Speaker 1: And like I guess this team views is is the
tax a complete no go? Did they want to stay
under it? They have about they're actually into the tax.
I think a little bit because the tax is what
one's seventy this year? The tax this year is one
one seventy one. I think they're at like one seventy
two right now, if I'm not mistaken or around that area.
So I just I don't know. I just feel like
I would have preferred to have you if you're asking
me whether I would have used the non taxpayer mid
level on somebody like also didn't even have to be
the full thing. This is a team that definitely should
have signed Heywood high Smith that like you could have
given more money, like Kyle.
Speaker 3: Anderson, like you, I mean, like just you, if you've
got spacing at the four and the five, assuming you're
playing him, you probably want to play him at the
four but like if you you can get away with
Kyle Anderson and benefit from the things he's good at,
so much more easy, so much easier if you have
Miles Turner, or if you could play the accum at
the fire like there's just a lot of it's just
to get off the Naji Marshall, Simoni Fontechio, like there's
a there's a decent number of other names that just
make They could have.
Speaker 2: Been a Caleb Martin one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they could have also been like Derek Jones Junior.
I wouldn't have hated him. Imagine Derk Jones Junior in
the offense with the Pacers team.
Speaker 3: Well, especially as a as a comp for Toppin, Like
Derek Jones Junior does like a lot of the top
and stuff, Like nobody runs as relentlessly and and consistently
as Topen does. But Jones is awesome at that gives you.
I mean, I trust his shooting as much as I
trust Toppins, I guess, which is to say, like not
a ton but like semi ticy.
Speaker 2: I think I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, neither of them is like a five alarm
fire getting closed out, And I think Jones was like
in the thirty three ish thirty four ish percent range
last year. But but Jones is just a I mean,
defensively they are. There's no conversation like Derek Jones Jr.
Was like really good and spend a lot of time
guarding the best guys top and you gotta hide.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of options.
Speaker 3: It really is coming down to the top end contract,
which feels like a little too laser focus. But I
don't know if we're gonna we're gonna knock it. There's
a lot of reasons that it wasn't a very good choice.
Speaker 1: Is this a D plus offseason or is it a
C minus? Those are I think when I'm like, it's not,
it's below A have the net heart extension is also
well though, if we want to be these people like
would they benefited from being able to go out the
extra year on the netmartenescisions like why is it just
the three? I like, well, did you not want to
sign that? Did they not want to offer it.
Speaker 3: I'm more receptive to that knock on the NM hard
deal than I am to like, oh well, and Matherin's
not gonna get I just I just don't believe in
Matherin as like a starter, So oh yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1: I actually don't. I'm being honest.
Speaker 3: I don't demerit them for not opening like a bigger
role for mather I agree.
Speaker 2: I think Matherin is a six man. I think that's
like what he's supposed to be.
Speaker 3: And so so that especially with Haliburton, like him and Haliburton,
I just like, you're the defense is just too bad
for those two to play big minutes together.
Speaker 2: So getting them hard just makes sense. Is it really
a D plus?
Speaker 3: Because I think we both would say, like we like
the Pacers, we think they're gonna be good. I just
and like, I don't know, we keep saying, let's just
do it, let's go D plus the topics, Like I'm high.
Speaker 1: On the Pacers, but like even the Sakam deal, Like
what did they win If that's a that's a C,
that's a sea. You didn't have to go to a
fifth year, Okay, But like when you're framing it that
way that we didn't have to pay this player that
we want for the act, you'd rather be like with
nem Hard, where's no you want that extra year type deal?
So I just it has to be a D plus
because they it's not even that they had the recent
theyty right now in this moment, if they were willing
to pay the tax, they have the resources to do something.
So that's where I'm at with them. Still. Honestly they're
going to be a really good team. But yeah, D plus,
move on to Grant. This is your team. They are
the Milwaukee Bucks, which they did so little as you
can see on the screen, and I figured, why not
take up some of that space right there.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what that Yanna's face is trying to
convey it. Well, let's let's get to it. So they
drafted A. J.
Speaker 3: Johnson at number twenty three, drafted Tyler Smith at thirty three.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: Some phenomenal minimum maneuverings, but we will not overrate minimums.
Delon Wright got a one year minimum. Torreon Prince got
a one your minimum. Gary Trent Junior that's the standout,
got a one year minimum.
Speaker 1: Feel free to overrate that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, i'man that one. That's that one. I might need to.
Speaker 3: Uh signed Stanley and Moody and Anzish said Schnicks that
was my first pass at that name.
Speaker 2: Pretty good to two ways.
Speaker 3: Uh. Malik Beasley gone six million from Detroit. Patrick Beverly
probably gone forever signed overseas, Jay Crowder remains unsigned, the
Nasis unsigned uh on screen. I just don't think that's
gonna remain the case for very long. I don't know, though,
there's a roster crunch that the Bucks have to figure out.
Speaker 1: So Dan, if they signed Tyler Smith, that's fourteen right for.
Speaker 2: Them, I think, So I don't.
Speaker 3: I mean, they'll find a way, They'll make him like
a special assistant or something that he'll be around. Really
just talking about minimums because I don't I don't think
we need to do the A. J. Johnson and Tyler
Smith of it all to really affect this grade. So
I mean, you know, I know we started out and
I keep harping on like you can't overvalue minimums, but
like Gary Trent's gonna start right and play a huge role,
and they're paying at least, you know, by Gary Trent's evaluation,
like one twelfth of what he's actually worth.
Speaker 2: So uh, that's a pretty good start.
Speaker 3: And this is a team with zero flexibility, just like
could not really do almost anything.
Speaker 1: You say not to over rate minimum signings. But since
twenty twenty, oh there are three players downing over thirty
eight percent of their triples on more than seven attempts
per game and posting a steel rate north of two
Lonzo Ball who's played just ninety games amid knee issues,
Paul George and Gary Trent Jr.
Speaker 2: Well, why didn't they sign Paul George Dan?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, d That's what Kendrick Persians basically said
he was disappointed in the Bucks offseason, right, And I
agree with him. I would have simply just signed O
G and Paul George and maybe honestly, like I know
that they have Brook Lopez on this tree, but why
not just trade for Jokic?
Speaker 2: Right? Because that would have been an interesting song, not
that complicated.
Speaker 3: They didn't have any moves to make and got three
guys I think at least two of which Right and
Trent are gonna play real roles. And I mean this,
this is more than they should have been able to do, right.
I think I feel like that's the So this can't
be in the sea range. I would say, although, like
you know, I'm just gonna say, like, do we credit
them for Gary Trent just like falling into their laps? Yeah,
a little bit, because he could assigned for the minimum anywhere.
Speaker 2: So what we're not. I can't go.
Speaker 3: I can't go in a unless you have more to
talk about it. I think we got to probably just
jump into the grade.
Speaker 1: No, So I I still don't even after talking with
ty Wendish and looking into him a little bit, I
kind of understand the theory of what a J. Johnson
is supposed to be in the NBA. I don't understand
the theory of that in the context.
Speaker 2: Of the Bucks because a long way away, right.
Speaker 1: Right, And also just Keyshawn George went with a pick
right after and you know, I'm high on him and like,
oh a plug and play wing, Like why not just
go that route? So it's not it's just something I
I probably would have rather like traded down or just
like again taking Kishan George. So I'm that's like something
I'm prepared to dig them for. And I know that's
a stupid thing to harp on, but when you have
assembled a roster that actually has a ton of youth
on it, when you look at like kind of just
you know, Marjohon bo Champ is still here and we
have Andre Jackson and Chris Livingston, like take the right swings,
and I think or at least take guys that I
think fit the context of your team right now, and
I think Kishan George would have kind of at least
filled the latter part of that, even if you think
Tyler excuse me, A. J. Johnson has the bigger outside.
But I think you have to love this offseason from
them overall, because I honestly would say, like between Prince
Right and Trent, that they legitimately added like three of
their top eight players this summer.
Speaker 2: For sure too.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure about Prince, but for sure the other two.
Speaker 2: I really do believe.
Speaker 1: Honestly, he fits the like more of an archetypal hole
that they have than Delon Wright does at this point.
So it's like, I know that they need the point
of attack defense from Delon Right, but position they need
more of what Prince like in fury can do. And
also they're not gonna play him or lean on him
the way that the Lakers did. Sure like the Lakers
just didn't have any wings of which to speak. And
so even like when you think about the Chris Middleton
injury of it all, like I love the idea of
Torrey and Prince here or I should say, ankle surgeries
of it all. Excuse me? So where are you at
with the grade?
Speaker 3: I think on Trent alone, it's it's it's like a
B plus just because, like you have, the books had
no business getting someone that good with the resources they had,
so it's just like it's not even close. Like and
then to get a couple more guys, like we could
disagree with where they right or Prince matters more, but
like they both they both matter, they're both gonna play,
and they're both like you could see them being positive
value players as long as they don't have to, as
long as the lifts aren't too heavy for them, which
I don't think they should be unless Middleton just you know,
can't play anymore and Pat Conninson is not playable, on
and on. But like it's it's a B plus for
me just just because of Trent, Like that's an insane
value signing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like you could, honestly, you could probably
go as high as an A here if you don't
have any strong feelings about their draft. Shouldn't the grade
just be an A?
Speaker 2: Maybe? I don't know, it just feels so high to
base it on like one.
Speaker 1: Well, what else are they supposed to do? Like, what
is the no I'm asking?
Speaker 2: I know, I just like I guess I'm uncomfortable.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm going against my overvalue minimum signing things if
I go any higher than it be plus trying to
stay consistent here.
Speaker 1: It's relative to their situation where they could only have
signed minimums though, So you're judging this against the other
minimum signings.
Speaker 2: That's true, that's true. I'm trying to.
Speaker 1: They're getting a B plus from me because I think
that they should have just taken Keyshawn George or even
just moved to this pick. And you could, by the way,
that would be the was there anything out there for
pat content plus number twenty three before it was a salary?
Could that have gotten you io?
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I'm not factoring that in so I probably.
Speaker 3: Would have still, but I would have taken somebody else
or I would honestly, I would have traded down.
Speaker 1: And I kind of believe that A. J. Johnson would
have been there after Tyler Smith maybe.
Speaker 2: Maybe so maybe so, so we have the same grade.
But you're trying to talk me up because.
Speaker 1: Because I might, it makes me feel like I need
to go down.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, no, I think it just is.
Speaker 3: I think a B plus is just the correct grade
here now. No, I think that's where I'm at because
I I I.
Speaker 2: Do take the point.
Speaker 1: I wanted to explain why they're not getting an A from.
Speaker 3: You because I'm scared of repeating my Phoenix Sun's mistake.
Speaker 1: Right, But again, this is like we relative even relative
to the options that were at the foot of Phoenix
last year with the minimums, things they didn't get a
lot of, They didn't get a good enough traction out
of them.
Speaker 2: Here here's why it's not an A.
Speaker 3: I think it's not like you had to do any
like there was no I mean, they couldn't do this,
but it's like there was no like artful maneuvering.
Speaker 2: There was no like, oh if we you know, let's
use this portion of this roster exception.
Speaker 3: Now, like there it's their own fault that they had
so few resources and so few options, so like they
didn't really have a chance to do anything spectacular.
Speaker 2: But like, I can't. You can't give an A just
because you've got Gary Trent on the minimum. I like it,
I love it. I can't.
Speaker 3: That can't be the only reason you get in a
I don't know why. Maybe that's inconsistent logically.
Speaker 1: It seems like it. It's isn't logic to me. I'm
not gonna at least then say like you would have
taken someone else in the because what you're saying about
the second apron there, they didn't pivot out of it.
That's true, and you we just complimented the Celtics for
doing so. And by the way, it'd be different if
like they were like they spent on the wrong players
the reasons they're in the second apron. Go ahead and
point to me and tell me, like, well, that deal
you shouldn't be on the books.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 3: Well, we kind of relitigated the Dame trade on our regrades,
but but that that would be the only one where
you're like, oh, Drew Holliday would have been slightly cheaper. Yeah, okay,
you know what the good that's you raised a new
argument that I am receptive to, which is that a
lot of teams in this position try to get cheaper
and try to and try and like are not focused
on adding.
Speaker 2: So let's go. You have you have talked me up
to an A minus, but you're at a B plus.
So now I don't know what we do.
Speaker 1: We'll go to an A minus because mine is based
on like, I actually have a strong thought about a
draft if we have not watched played out on the
court at all, For all we know, like keithon George
will get playing kind of Washington and could suck. So
I'm just like, I just think in terms of asset management,
you could have gotten a J. Johnson much lower. But
maybe I'm wrong, So we'll go a minus. So you're welcome, grant.
Speaker 2: Like Jesus Christ, so much arm twisting to get up
at half grade.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, though, is we now need to re
record this entire two hour, forty minute podcast because two
minutes ago Luke Travers has signed a two way deal
with the Cavs and I think that changes everything.
Speaker 2: So LUs A plus or F minus one of the two.
We'll have to decide.
Speaker 1: This was long. Are you ready to take us out
of here? Sure?
Speaker 2: Uh man, Okay, So let's see.
Speaker 3: I give this podcast an A because we did the
most we could with the resources we had, which is
our two brains, and we.
Speaker 1: Agree right on brand of totally and coherent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough.
Speaker 3: Thanks everybody for listening for watching for enjoying Dan's wonderfully
produced graphics with Gianni's faces in some cases, if you
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