WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:04.200 Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris, Lorenzo and Lorenzo 2 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:06.879 on this episode, I want to talk about accountability. 3 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:09.640 M my favorite topic always. 4 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:11.000 We're going to go through a list of the things 5 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:13.080 that you've done wrong and we're going to talk about them. 6 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:16.000 My favorite time to leave is go. 7 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:21.160 Home early, exactly. I want to talk about accountability from 8 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:24.079 a couple of different standpoints because I was reading an 9 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:29.440 article on Forbes by doctor Dian Hamilton. She's talking about 10 00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:33.000 the employees are holding leaders to a higher standard of accountability. 11 00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:34.920 Is the is kind of the crux of the article, 12 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:37.880 and I kind of I look at it as in 13 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:43.240 two ways. One, yes, I think employees want their leaders 14 00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:46.600 to admit fault when they've done something wrong. I think 15 00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:49.159 that's a kind of a natural human nature is to 16 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:52.320 is to expect that. I think for the longest time, 17 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:55.520 you weren't able to expect that of your leaders, right 18 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:57.560 Like it was just the kind of thing where, well, 19 00:00:57.840 --> 00:00:59.880 you know, one of the perks of the of being 20 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:01.840 the boss is that you know that they're not gonna 21 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:03.880 admit when they're wrong. They're just gonna hope it goes away. 22 00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:07.319 And over the course of the last you know, maybe 23 00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:11.519 between between ten and twenty years that has changed, and 24 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:15.640 and leaders who don't do that, they are they're far 25 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:18.879 more likely to be held accountable negatively by their by 26 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:22.239 their teams and their people. Obviously, you can't necessarily fire 27 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:25.480 your boss, although maybe one day you can't. You can't 28 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:30.079 fire your boss, but but you can. There could almost 29 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:34.920 be a mutiny from the standpoint of uh, you know, 30 00:01:35.239 --> 00:01:39.599 a decline in productivity and engagement and performance that if 31 00:01:39.719 --> 00:01:41.359 is not just by one person, if it's by an 32 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:44.519 entire team. Organizations tend to look at that as a 33 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:47.319 leadership issue. When if you have a high performing team 34 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:50.000 with one low performer on it, it's the it's the person. 35 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:53.319 If you have a low performing team that was once 36 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:56.599 a high performing team and it's all the same people. Oftentimes, 37 00:01:56.680 --> 00:01:58.840 if you know, companies who are intelligent about this look 38 00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:00.920 at that as a as a leadership issue, and so 39 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:04.840 it's important to understand that as a leader and to 40 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:07.560 make sure that you admit fault. But I also think 41 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:11.520 that employees are looking for a higher standard of accountability 42 00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:17.319 on themselves too, and I think it's you know, no 43 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:20.120 kid wants to be told that they're in trouble or 44 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:21.520 they have to do this or have to do that. 45 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:27.000 But clearly, all people of any age function better when 46 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:34.120 there are systems and bumpers in place to hold them 47 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:36.520 accountable to getting the things done they should get done. 48 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:39.639 And it could be biological, like I need to get 49 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:41.439 some sleep because if I don't, I'm going to be 50 00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:43.280 unable to think through the things I need to think 51 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:45.879 through the next day. So I'm held accountable by my body, 52 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:49.719 you know, or or held accountable by somebody you're in 53 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:52.120 a relationship with to make sure that you call at 54 00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:54.400 a certain time or whatever it is. There are things 55 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:57.960 that hold us accountable, and people who have those things 56 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:00.439 in place function better, and I think it's it's important 57 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:01.719 to talk about it from both standpoints. 58 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:05.439 Yeah, you know, typically when I hear accountability, especially from 59 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.759 like in articles and things that we read around kind 60 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:10.599 of the workforce and what people want to work and 61 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:13.280 things like that, the first thing that pops into my 62 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:17.159 head is you go to work and there's somebody on 63 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:20.080 your team, somebody that you work with. May maybe it's 64 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:22.520 your leader, maybe it's not, but like there are people 65 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:25.680 around you who are not doing what they're supposed to 66 00:03:25.719 --> 00:03:29.240 be doing. Or they're not doing it on time, or 67 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:31.719 they're not doing it in a way that's like positive 68 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:35.000 and you know, like making the work environment fun or easier. 69 00:03:35.080 --> 00:03:37.240 Like like, I think a lot of times when we 70 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:41.240 talk about accountability, it's not necessarily as specific as like, 71 00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:45.280 here's the behavioral thing. Maybe it is maybe in somebody's world. 72 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:47.919 It's like, you know, people don't come to work, you know, 73 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:50.639 consistently enough, and that makes my job harder. So like, 74 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:52.800 I want accountability, but I just want it in this 75 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:55.360 one space now. Typically it's just. 76 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:57.960 This whenever I don't come to work is a really 77 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:00.879 good reason for it. But these other people terrible reasons. 78 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:03.639 I don't know if there are, but they are terrible exactly. 79 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:06.879 Yes, Yes, But I think it's it's more of the 80 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:11.560 larger picture around going to work, looking around and being 81 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:13.680 like if everybody would just do what they're supposed to 82 00:04:13.719 --> 00:04:16.560 be doing and do it well, then like my job 83 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:19.160 would be easier, we would get more work done, it 84 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:22.439 would be more fun to be here. So I think that, Yeah, 85 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:25.920 I think when we talk about accountability, it really to 86 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.879 me it boils down to leadership every single time, because 87 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:33.000 either the leader themselves is not holding themselves accountable and 88 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:34.759 showing up and doing the work that a leader should do, 89 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:39.199 or a leader is not holding the team accountable in 90 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:42.360 ways that everybody has either agreed that this is how 91 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:44.800 we should do the work, or these are the expectations 92 00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:46.720 of the job, or whatever the case is. So I 93 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:50.959 don't know that like like this generation of workers or 94 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:55.040 this current workforce is saying we want more accountability than 95 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:57.360 we've ever had before. I think that this has been 96 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.480 an ongoing thing over the decades. I just think hearing 97 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:03.519 about it now again because we have these tools and 98 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:07.120 these capabilities of discussing it, and and we're actually asking 99 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:10.639 these questions on employee surveys and on things that we're 100 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:13.879 doing across you know, all industries. We're getting this data 101 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:16.839 that bec has always existed, but now we're creating spaces 102 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:19.439 for people to really share how they're feeling about it. 103 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:21.160 And now, you know, we have to look in the 104 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:22.680 mirror and be like, all right, what's what are we 105 00:05:22.759 --> 00:05:26.240 really going to do around creating better elements of accountability 106 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:29.279 that are consistent, that are fair, and that are based 107 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:31.240 upon the job that we're asking people to do. 108 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:34.079 Right well, and also that aren't hypocritical right. So exactly 109 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:36.240 if you if you're a leader and you're holding people 110 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:39.600 accountable to something, to some standard that you are not 111 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:43.160 then holding yourself accountable to, that's going to that's going 112 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:44.920 to be a problem, regardless of what it is. It 113 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:48.360 could be something small or something huge. Employees see through 114 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:50.839 those things very very quickly, and so you know, the 115 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:53.800 the right the right solution is either to stop holding 116 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:56.439 them accountable or start holding yourself accountable at least from 117 00:05:56.439 --> 00:06:00.000 a you know, getting rid of the hypocrisy. Which which 118 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:03.279 way is the proper way forward is really up to 119 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:05.959 you and how it impacts the performance. I think there 120 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:10.040 are some leaders who hold their people to arbitrary standards 121 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:14.160 that aren't necessarily rooted in actual real performance. They're rooted 122 00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:17.079 in what the leader's assumption is of what it looks 123 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:19.560 like to have a high performing team, and they get 124 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:23.000 held accountable to things that really don't necessarily impact that 125 00:06:23.079 --> 00:06:25.519 as much, right, And they do that from a standpoint 126 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:30.480 of thinking that accountability is the thing. Accountability isn't the thing. 127 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.480 Accountability is the thing to get you to the thing, right, 128 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:38.399 So you have to know its place, because if it 129 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:41.759 doesn't solve the problem, then there's no point to it. 130 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:45.680 So I'll take it back to the employees wanting their 131 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:49.040 coworkers to be held accountable. Employees don't want their co 132 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:52.360 workers to be held accountable. Employees want the behavior that 133 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:56.279 is impacting them to stop. And by the time they 134 00:06:56.279 --> 00:06:58.959 get to the point where they're thinking they want this 135 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:02.000 person fired, they want this person, you know, publicly flogged, 136 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:05.240 you know, whatever it is, it's the it's the Catharsis 137 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:08.079 they're looking for. Of thinking they they want to they 138 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:10.519 want to be walking by the office door with the 139 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:13.839 door open accidentally and hear that person getting yelled at 140 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:16.160 for for something they did, because they can go, yeah, 141 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:17.639 give it to them, you know, they're they're they're the 142 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:20.160 ones who made my job harder. It's like they it's 143 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:22.319 not really what they're looking for. They just want the 144 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:26.040 whatever they perceive as the behavior that is impacting the 145 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:30.079 team to stop. And that's actually a good thing because 146 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.920 if you're a leader and the way you're holding your 147 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:35.959 team accountable is public and so that other people on 148 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:38.600 the team can see it happening, that's poor leadership already. 149 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:42.160 And so so you have to hold people accountable in 150 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:45.000 a way that that leaves them with their dignity, you 151 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:47.560 know that when you're not doing it publicly in front 152 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:50.879 of other people. But that also gives the rest of 153 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:54.079 the team the impression that you are holding people accountable 154 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:56.800 without them ever seeing you do it. And and the 155 00:07:56.839 --> 00:08:00.319 only way that is done is by one hul the 156 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:04.279 behavior changes, and two making sure that the that the 157 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:08.040 people that everybody's getting a taste of it so that 158 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:10.800 they can think to themselves, well, I'm I'm getting it. 159 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.639 At least they're doing something. They're they're they're doing something, 160 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:17.199 and then over a timeline, the behavior will get better 161 00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:20.160 and will stop, and the impression of accountability will be 162 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:22.079 there even though it's not necessarily public. 163 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:23.959 Yeah. So this is a safe space, right, just you 164 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:25.879 and me talking right. Nobody else is going to hear this, 165 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:26.199 right right? 166 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:26.480 Yeah? 167 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:29.680 No one, okay, okay, all right, uh full transparency. There 168 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:31.680 have been times in my career where I just wanted 169 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:36.480 them to get in trouble. I just I just wanted 170 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:40.879 that to happen. Like it wasn't. It wasn't as a 171 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:44.480 high road as you were kind of describing around like 172 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:46.720 I don't want them No, Actually I was like, yeah, 173 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:49.360 like they they need somebody needs to be in charge 174 00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:51.879 here and somebody's got to hold them accountable. So if 175 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:54.360 you're at this portion of the show and you agree 176 00:08:54.399 --> 00:08:57.039 with me, okay, send an email to info at hacking 177 00:08:57.039 --> 00:08:59.120 your Leadership dot com and I have some free swag. 178 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:01.799 I'm going to mail you. I've got some notebooks, I've 179 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:04.000 got some stuff some of our authors have sent us. 180 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:06.600 I got some free books. So again, just if you 181 00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:08.159 if you agree with me, if there's been times in 182 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:11.840 your career where you're like, yeah, I totally just I 183 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:13.639 just want them to get yelled at and I want 184 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:16.159 to overhear it in the office, right right, sure, email 185 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:19.320 dear Loso at infhone hacking Leadership dot com. I agree, 186 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:21.120 and then send me your address and I will send 187 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:23.159 you some free swag. How about that for a mid 188 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:25.759 show free giveaway. If you feel like, if you lasted 189 00:09:25.759 --> 00:09:28.519 this long through the show, get something for free, shoot 190 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:29.080 me the email. 191 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:33.000 Yeah, I like that. You you might get a lot 192 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:33.720 of emails, Bud. 193 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:36.519 Let's put a cap on this. Let's put a cap 194 00:09:36.519 --> 00:09:36.720 on this. 195 00:09:36.759 --> 00:09:40.879 Okay, within the first time, within the first show, within. 196 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:45.039 Exactly yeah, first hundred people, with the twenty four hours 197 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:48.080 of the episode publishing, I'll put a cap on it. Yeah, 198 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:49.320 but I got a lot of free stuff. I got 199 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:51.080 some cool stuff, so I'll do my absolute best. 200 00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:54.480 Yeah. I think you're not wrong. I mean, like you know, 201 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:57.320 full transparency. There are times when I when I'm driving 202 00:09:57.360 --> 00:09:59.360 and I want to run somebody off the road. I don't. 203 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:02.279 I don't don't do that, but I think it's it's 204 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:06.080 it's human nature to want that. Again, it's the Catharsis 205 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:09.759 of thinking, yes, somebody did something. We want to see 206 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:12.639 people get their comeuppance, right, we want to see we 207 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:16.279 want to we want the universe to feel like it's working. 208 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:19.240 We know that bad things won't won't stop. We just 209 00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:21.720 want to know that if somebody does something that they're 210 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:24.120 going to get in trouble for it, because on the 211 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:26.360 same token, we're thinking if I did that, I'd get 212 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:28.360 in trouble for it, right, And so it's this, it's 213 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:31.559 this feeling of a lack of fairness that is it's 214 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:33.039 kind of rooted in that. And so you want to 215 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:35.960 see people held accountable and that that applies to your 216 00:10:36.039 --> 00:10:38.320 leaders too. You want your leaders to be held accountable 217 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:42.080 to things. And obviously you're not gonna watch your leader 218 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:45.399 be chastised by their leader on something they did wrong. 219 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:49.759 But if you see the behavior change, then you you 220 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:52.960 have to assume that some coaching was done and some 221 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:55.639 accountability was done. Now there are ways to do that, 222 00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:58.679 like if you're if your boss's boss holds them accountable, 223 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:01.039 that that's one thing. But you can you can ask 224 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:03.960 the questions right if you know, good leaders and good 225 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:07.799 organizations have something in place to ask people what they're 226 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:11.240 looking for or what's missing, and if the if a 227 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:14.840 theme of the responses is a lack of leader accountability, 228 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:18.159 then that's an important thing to address and to to 229 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:19.919 try to dive in deeper with some people about what 230 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:22.240 they meant by that or or you know, trying to 231 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:24.399 figure out where that lies. If you don't have all 232 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:28.919 the information, it's it's important to know. And then once 233 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.080 you know it, you can't just say great, our work 234 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:32.919 here is done. You actually have to do something about it. 235 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:36.080 You can't just ask the question. Asking the question without 236 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:40.440 any plan to rectify it is you might as well 237 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:42.879 not ask it to begin with. Because when when a 238 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:46.879 team of people are asked these questions, they assume there's 239 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:49.320 a reason they're being asked, and that reason is that 240 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:53.679 they want the company leadership structure wants to solve these problems. 241 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:57.519 And you can only ask those questions a couple of 242 00:11:57.559 --> 00:12:01.960 times without the employees see meaningful change in the areas 243 00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:06.240 they've expressed a problem in before they stop, you know, 244 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:09.080 giving you good feedback on those surveys, before they stop 245 00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:12.960 being honest, before they stop caring about them. It's you know, 246 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:15.399 better to not make the promise than to than to 247 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:17.080 imply that it has been made and then not do 248 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:17.639 anything about it. 249 00:12:17.720 --> 00:12:19.600 Yeah, no, I completely agree with that. I think it's 250 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:21.480 such an important, you know, piece to kind of call 251 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:24.799 out and discuss. I think that there's you know, I 252 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:27.120 know I was joking earlier, but I think that the 253 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:29.679 reality is a lot of times, you know, when it 254 00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:34.600 comes to uh, just overall accountability, I think that And 255 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:37.759 I was having this conversation with a few leaders, you know, 256 00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:42.480 a couple of weeks ago, but being upfront and talking 257 00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:46.720 about what, you know, accountability is, what does it mean 258 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:50.360 to us? What are the rape percussions for it? What 259 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:51.759 what what are the and then we've talked about this, 260 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:53.799 that talked about this before in the podcast, but like, 261 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:56.519 how do you want to be held accountable? That sounds 262 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:59.399 like such a silly thing, but the reality is that 263 00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:02.440 there's a lot of truth and element and transparency to 264 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:05.679 that when you're talking to a team, and when you're 265 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:08.639 talking to a team of leaders and people to say, like, 266 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:10.480 let's talk like this is gonna happen, right There are 267 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:14.600 gonna be moments in time where where somebody's not going 268 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:16.679 to live to the commitment that we've made, or somebody 269 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.759 is going to do something that has a negative impact 270 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:23.120 on the team, you know, like like what does that 271 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.759 look like and how does that work? And what are 272 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:28.279 the steps there? And I think as a leader of people, 273 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:30.360 but even as a leader of leaders, if you're teaching 274 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:34.480 leaders how to become more effective at accountability, you actually 275 00:13:34.519 --> 00:13:37.519 have to talk about accountability, not when you're holding somebody accountable, right, 276 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:39.639 And and that's usually what ends up happening, is that 277 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:42.240 you hold somebody accountable and then you want them to 278 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:44.600 learn through that, or you do something and somebody's like, well, 279 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:46.320 how come we don't an accountability here? And then you 280 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:48.039 kind of have to like whisper to be like, we 281 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.559 do hold people accountable, we just can't talk about it. 282 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:53.159 And you would never know if we hold them accountable 283 00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:55.879 instead of saying, like, this is how we do this, 284 00:13:56.120 --> 00:13:58.480 and when these things happen, let me tell you what 285 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:00.480 happens here, and like you know, you're not going to 286 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:03.320 know because, as an example, Chris, if Chris doesn't come 287 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:05.519 to work on time or is not here when he's 288 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:07.840 supposed to be here, and I hold Chris accountable, I'm 289 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:09.159 going to talk to Chris when he comes on to 290 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:10.519 his next shift. We're going to go sit down in 291 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:12.919 the office. I'm gonna share with him the expectations. He's 292 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.039 going to get a written warning or whatever the case 293 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:16.960 is that you do for your organization. This is what's 294 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:19.879 gonna happen. And then, as the leader, I am not 295 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:21.559 supposed to come out here and tell you all that 296 00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:24.279 I've held Chris accountable. Chris can tell you, Chris can 297 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:26.840 say whatever he wants, right, I can't do that as 298 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:28.759 the leader. What I can tell you is that this 299 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:30.519 is the process. And also what I can tell you 300 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.919 is that if you notice a trend of people coming 301 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:36.240 to work, or if you yourself are coming to work 302 00:14:36.279 --> 00:14:38.399 lates or those types like, then we're going to have 303 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:41.360 a conversation. But like we don't do a good job 304 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:43.519 and that at all, and especially when it comes to 305 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:46.759 leading leaders, like teaching them how to be that upfront 306 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:49.360 and transparent with a process like accountability. 307 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:54.159 Right, well, because they think, I think it's not natural 308 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:56.720 to want to talk about it because it's a negative thing, right, 309 00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:58.399 Like to tell you want to be more positive, you 310 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:00.360 want you want to talk about the positive things, and 311 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:03.120 you want to you know, quickly get through the negative things. 312 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:05.399 Almost from like a paperwork standpoint, we want to cross 313 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:07.240 our teas and daughter eyes. We want to make sure 314 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:09.480 that we are doing the right thing. From a you know, 315 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:12.879 a fairness and objectivity and human resources standpoint, we want 316 00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:14.399 to make sure we do all those things right. But 317 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:16.559 no one wants talk about accountability because you know, it's 318 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:19.080 not that's not the fun stuff, you know, and and 319 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:23.399 I get I completely get the the inclination to do that, 320 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:26.840 but that but they're not mutually exclusive here, right. You 321 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:29.840 can talk about accountability from a positive standpoint. You can 322 00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:31.840 talk about it from a standpoint of these are the 323 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:35.039 expectations of the of the team, because this is what 324 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.279 we'll get the team further, this is what will get 325 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:39.879 the performance we're looking for, and this will open doors 326 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:43.879 for future advancement, and and and and it's the accountability 327 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:47.120 discussion is part of that broader discussion, because if you 328 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.159 don't talk about it in advance, and you can't talk 329 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:53.039 about it when it's happening, then you never talk about it, 330 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.440 and then people think it's not happening. But but if 331 00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:58.879 you talk about it enough, then people will get the 332 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:01.919 impression that it's happening, because you don't typically talk about 333 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:04.960 things that often without actually putting them in place. If 334 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.279 it's part of the vernacular, and if leaders are good 335 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:10.480 at talking about it when it's not actually happening, but 336 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:12.840 when it's hypothetical or this is what we do or 337 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:15.279 this is the process or the procedure. When leaders are 338 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:18.759 good at doing that, then typically it means that the organization, 339 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:22.600 the structure is in place to do that. Otherwise those 340 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:25.360 things don't usually get talked about. Oftentimes, when they don't 341 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.960 get talked about, it's an indicator that the structure in 342 00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:31.759 place to hold people accountable is more haphazard, right, it's 343 00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:35.360 more one offs and individuals in Well, we don't really 344 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:37.720 have a process, but let's just see what has happened 345 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:39.120 and then I'll tell you what the process is for 346 00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:41.879 that person for that thing, as opposed to having an 347 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:45.080 actual process that people can then rely on, and that 348 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:49.879 clarity that you can provide people of having the discussion beforehand, 349 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:52.080 not only does it tell them that yes, we do this, 350 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:55.519 we hold people accountable, but it tells them what. It 351 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:58.679 gives them the clarity on what the process is, so 352 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:01.600 that they're not fearful of it. Like if they do 353 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:03.559 something wrong, if they make a mistake, you don't want 354 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:06.319 them losing sleep the night before about what's going to happen. 355 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:08.640 You want them already knowing what's going to happen. Well, 356 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:10.759 I did this, this is what will happen. There's a 357 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:13.359 big difference between someone talking to you about something and 358 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:16.039 losing your job. And if you've done something as an 359 00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:18.440 employee and you don't know what's coming into work the 360 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:20.920 next day, whether it's going to be someone having a 361 00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:24.000 stern word with you or getting fired, then your leadership 362 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:25.720 team has done a terrible job letting people know what 363 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:29.079 the process is. Because you should know exactly what would happen. 364 00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:32.480 You should know long before, and that way you can 365 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:35.079 anticipate it and you're not stewing in something you know, 366 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:36.720 kind of hoping it will go the right way. 367 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:38.920 You should know absolutely. And with that it brings us 368 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.039 to this episodes one minute Hack. But first a few 369 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:42.039 words from our sponsors. 370 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:44.920 All right, for this episode one minute Hack, we want 371 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:47.519 you to understand that one of the most important parts 372 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:51.319 of accountability is what you say about accountability and the 373 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:55.000 process that is in place and how people are held accountable, 374 00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:57.640 not just applying to your teams, but to yourself as 375 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:03.400 well when it's not actually happening. Having that vernacular and 376 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:06.000 that that verbage in place that you can talk about 377 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:09.279 where you do it in a positive way from a 378 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:12.720 standpoint of letting people know what the process is. Should 379 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:16.160 somebody do something not where you've just done it with 380 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:18.559 some person and they can when they're hearing it from you, 381 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:20.319 they're thinking, oh, I know what they're I know who 382 00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:22.599 they're talking about. Is no, it's they don't need to 383 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:24.319 know who you're talking about. So you have to talk 384 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:26.640 about it when it's not actually happening. But if you 385 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:28.920 have that in place and you talk about it often enough, 386 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:31.720 then then people will get the impression that it's happening. 387 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:33.079 Now you have to follow up and actually do it. 388 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:35.160 You have to hold people accountable to the things that 389 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:39.759 you're saying, but avoiding the conversation and then just holding 390 00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:43.480 people accountable is a recipe for people either a not 391 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:46.359 giving you credit for the accountability you're actually doing and 392 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:50.279 be not understanding how the organization or you as a 393 00:18:50.359 --> 00:18:54.000 leader work when it comes to holding people accountable, talking 394 00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:57.039 about it openly lets them know that A. It happens, 395 00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:00.200 and B. Now you've told yourself to the same standard 396 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:02.960 because you've articulated it to them. Now you better be 397 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.359 on your best behavior to know that whatever when you 398 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:07.759 do something, you're gonna be held with that same standard too. 399 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:11.960 And so so when you're when you're telling them this verbage, 400 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:13.839 make sure it's something that you can hold yourself to 401 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:15.480