Speaker 1: Understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,
an idea.
Speaker 2: The population of atheists in this country is going.
Speaker 1: Through the rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred.
If I tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth,
not because I put my hand on a book and
made a wish and working together for a more rational world.
Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking, feel so much more happiness.
Truth Beusian wisdom will come to you that way.
Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the
Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.
Speaker 2: It was back in I think two thousand and seven
when Rich Dawkins The God Delusion released. I was watching
a video of one of his speeches. He was reading
excerpts from the book, and he read this, The God
of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character
in all fiction. Jealous and proud of it. A petty, unjust,
unforgiving control freak, a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser, a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal,
philicidl pestilential, megalelemiacal, sato mesochistic, capriciously malevolent, Bully. The God
delusion was seismic for me. It was just a watershed
book and it hit me at the right time, and
it altered the trajectory of the rest of my life.
And to use that kind of language to talk about
the God of the Bible was just, I mean, talk
about yes for me, talk about sacrilege, Holy Cow. And
as I got into my own journey, I had read
a book by Charles Templeton, who was kind of the
Canadian Billy Graham. In fact, he was an associate of
Billy Graham. The book is called Farewell to God. Charles
Templeton passed away years ago, but his book was out there,
and I think i'd heard Christopher Hitchins mention it, and
so I grabbed the book and read it, and it
was the same thing. He just went point by point
and said this is wrong, this is offensive, this is horrifying.
I just felt so dumb. The stuff was there, in
black and white, front and center, right right there in
the Bible, and yet I just hadn't seen it, or
I hadn't noticed it, or maybe I just hadn't wanted
to notice. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing, and so of course
once you start to read the Bible objectively, you know
I'm going to start to fall. There was an article
that Dan Barker posted years ago on the Freedom from
Religion websites for Freethought Today, and he wrote a book
called God the most Unpleasant character in All Fiction. And
he said, here is my list of the ten worst
Old Testament passages in reverse order. My main criterion is
that this list shows us something about the character of God.
All believers admit that the Bible contained some stomach churning tales,
but these examples reveal the Lord himself commanding, committing, or
condoning the brutality. Richard Dawkins was not exaggerating when he
called God a capriciously malevolent bully. Number ten. God destroys
a good family for no reason. God made a bet
with Satan the job a good and blameless man would
remain faithful e then if he killed his children and
ruined his life. Here we see God indicting himself for
the crime, openly confessing that he destroyed a family for
no reason. The Lord said to Satan, have you considered
my servant job? There was no one like him on
the earth. A blameless and upright man who fears God
and turns away from evil. He still persists in his integrity,
although you indicted me against him to destroy him for
no reason. Job chapter two, verse three, number nine. On
Dan Barker's list, God destroys the fetuses of those who
do not worship him. This is not the only feata
sidle passage in the Bible, but it is the worst.
You shall acknowledge no God but me. You are destroyed Israel.
The people of Samaria must be bear their guilt because
they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by
the sword. Their little ones will be dashed on the ground,
their pregnant women ripped open. That's Hoseiah Chapter thirteen, number eight.
God approves the massacre of a peaceful people so one
of his tribes could have a place to live. Most
believers think God destroyed the Canaanites because they were depraved
and immoral, although the Bible does not make that claim.
They were killed and labeled evil and wicked simply because
they did not worship him. Here's a group of people
who did nothing wrong. They were at peace and secure,
but they had to be eliminated. Judges Chapter eighteen, verses
one through twenty eight. And in those days the tribe
of the Danites was seeking a place of their own
where they might settle, because they had not yet come
into an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. Then they
said to the priest, please inquire of God to learn
whether our journey will be successful. The priest answered them,
go in peace. Your journey has the Lord's approval. Then
they took what Micah had made and his priest and
went on to layish against a people at peace and secure.
They attacked them with the sword and burned down their city.
The Danites rebuilt the city and settled there. The Canaanites
were not the evildoers. The Israelites were the invaders. Number
seven babies are slaughtered and wives raped. The murderous Old
Testament deity deemed human life to be worthless, placing his
own megalealmiacal glory above human values. Here's one of the
worst examples, Isaiah thirteenth. As see, the day of the
Lord is coming, a cruel day with wrath and fierce anger.
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty.
Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes.
Their houses will be looted and their wives violated. Number six,
A mixed race coupled is murdered by a godly priest
to keep God's people pure. The righteous priest Finihas murdered
a loving couple for the crime of missagenation, which means
sexual relationships or reproduction between people of different ethnic groups.
Then he was praised by God and rewarded for the
hate crime with a perpetual priesthood for keeping the nation
racially pure. Numbers Chapter twenty five. Just then one of
the Israelites came and brought a Midianite woman into his family,
in the sight of Moses and in the sight of
the whole congregation of the Israelites. When Finnihas, son of Elizar,
son of Aaron, the Priest saw it, he got up
and left the congregation. Taking a spear in his hand,
he went after the Israelite man into the tent and
pierced the two of them, the Israelite and the woman,
through the belly, so the plague was stopped among the
people of Israel. The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, Finnihas,
son of Elizar, son of Aaron, the priest has turned
back my wrath from the Israelites by manifesting such zeal
among them on my behalf, that in my jealousy I
did not consume the Israelites. Therefore, say I hear my
grant him my covenant of peace. It shall be for
him and for his descendants after him, a covenant of
perpetual priesthood. Because he was zealous for his God and
made atonement for the Israelites. Dan Barker's list continues number five,
A daughter is burned as an acceptable sacrifice to God.
General Jeptha made a vow with God in order to
defeat the enemy. When Jeptha won the war, God received
his one hundred pounds of flesh Judges Chapter eleven. And
Jeptha made a vow to the Lord, if you give
the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the
door of my house to meet me when I return
in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord's and
I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering. This story
just bugs me. What did he expect to walk out
of his door like a can't you know a pig
or something? I mean, he had to have thought, well,
the chances of my kid, you know, I mean, she's
got gait privileges, right, she would have entered an exit
in the house. Well, what are the chances? I just
don't understand. When Jeptha returned to his home in Misbah,
who should come out to meet him but his daughter
dancing to the sound of timbrels. After the two months,
she returned to her father, and he did to her
as he had vowed. Now let me flesh this one out.
So Jeptha came back and all of a sudden, big surprise,
his daughter walks through the door and he has an
O shit moment. And the argument by apologist is that, well,
actually this meant that she was consecrated to the Lord,
that she would commit the rest of her life to
God like a nun. She wasn't burned on the altar,
which is total crap because if you read that series
of verses, Jeptha flipped out, he wailed, he agonized, he
tore his clothing. Why would he do that if his
daughter was merely being consecrated. And then his daughter asks
if she can have eight weeks to go into the
wilderness to grieve over the fact that when she dies,
she'll die of virgin two months have gone. Ah shit,
I guess I'm never going to have sex in this life.
And then she comes back and agrees. Does she just
lie down on the altar? Does she pour the fuel
upon herself? Does she arrange the twigs and the sticks
and the kindling. I don't understand the story, but it's offensive,
and it is in the Book of Judges chapter eleven.
After burning his daughter, Jeptha was rewarded with a prestigious
judge ship and was later buried with honor number four.
The cannibalistic God makes people eat human flesh. There are
nine passages in the Old Testament where God makes cannibalistic threats.
Here is the worst one. This is Leviticus, verses twenty
seven through twenty nine. And if ye will not for
all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me,
then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury,
and I even I will chastise you seven times for
your sins. And ye shall eat the flesh of your
sons and the flesh of your daughters. Shall ye eat?
Number three from Dan Barker. God threatens rape, then takes
credit for it. Jeremiah thirteen. This passage was new to me,
Dan says, and it blew me away. I guess I'd
only read it before in the King James version, where
the sexual molestation is not obvious. Here it is in
the NRSV New Romi Standard version, where the Israelites were
asking why they were being attacked by the babylone hear
and give ear. Do not be haughty, for the Lord
has spoken. And if you say in your heart, why
have these things come upon me? It is for the
greatness of your iniquity that your skirts are lifted up
and you are violated, because you have forgotten me and
trusted in lies. I myself will lift up your skirts
over your face, and your shame will be seen. Skirts
lifted up is sexual assault. Violate is rape. The King
James version has the quaint heels made bear, which obscures
the sexual assault. Note that the iniquity for which they
were being raped was not immorality or depravity. It was
simply because quote you have forgotten me. Number two, God
threatens sexual molestation. The Lord will haras attractive uppity women
by exposing their private parts Isaiah chapter three. Moreover, the
Lord saith because the daughters of Zion are haughty and
walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and
mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their
feet their form. The Lord will smite with a scab
the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion,
and the Lord will discover their secret parts. The new
International version covers up this embarrassing passage with make their
scalps bald in place of discover their secret parts. The
Hebrew four poth pot is vagina. Other translations are more honest.
The Orthodox Jewish Bible has lay bare their nakedness, Amplified Bible,
stripped naked, come complete. Jewish Bible expose their private parts.
Common English version uncover their private parts, and Living Bible
expose their nakedness for all to see. Even if Daughters
of Zion is a metaphor for Israel, it is a
metaphor of sexual assaults. And finally, number one, God wants
you to be happy to dash babies against the rocks.
Dan Barker says, I've always thought this was the worst
verse in the Bible, and my opinion remains unchanged. Psalm
one thirty seven, verses eight and nine, O Daughter Babylon,
you devastator. Happy shall they be who pay you back
what you have done to us? Happy shall they be
who take your little ones and dash them against the rock?
God was not merely saying that regrettable collateral damage might
occur during wartime. He said believers should be happy. Some
translations say blessed to kill innocent babies of those who
are keeping you from worshiping your own God, and Dan
finishes by saying this, anyone who claims to admire and
worship the biblical God has either abandoned all sense of
moral judgment or has never actually read the Old Testament.
Since most believers are good people, I prefer to assume
the latter. I think the world would be a much
better place if people would actually read the book. A. A. Milne,
author of Winnie the Pooh, said the Old Testament is
responsible for more atheism, agnosticism, disbelief call it what you will,
than any book ever written. It has emptied more churches
than all of the counter attractions of cinema, motor bicycle,
and golf course. Before we can cure an illness, we
have to diagnose it. Please, let's read the Old Testament
and then excize the cancer from our lives. And I
do recommend Dan Barker's book It's called God, The Most
Unpleasant Character in All Fiction. More examples from the Christian
Bible about the moral monster, the most unpleasant character in
all fiction. Plenty of your calls and plenty more examples. Next,
one thing I want to say here before I go
to the phones is we can't let the New Testament
off the hook. And a lot of people are like, well,
Old Testament hate and death and pain and awfulness. New
Testament is light and love and goodness and charity and
warmth and Kumbai yah, which is a monumentally oversimplified look
at scripture. There are a lot of, I think better
things in the New Testament. But Jesus could be a
total asshole, you know he could. He was a misogynist
the way he treated I think he compared a woman
to a dog. And he told people to abandon their
families without even letting them say goodbye. And he had
all of these things. Plus we're talking about the New
Testament where hell is introduced. Doctor David Madison has the
book Ten Things Christians Wish Jesus Hadn't taught and other
reasons to question his words. You can find that in
paper and digital and I read the audiobook, but there
is also a whole website where he lists out a
whole bunch of this stuff, bad things Jesus taught dot
com And that's a great resource when you find a happy,
clampy Christian who thinks that Jesus was just to love
the little children and we are all his little children
kind of person. Jesus was not always a good guy.
What is it that you are bringing to the table.
I would like to know. I'm going to talk to
seven one seven. There's no name given, but are you there.
My name is Stephen Steven. We're talking about the God
of the Old and New Testament. What do you have
for us, my friend?
Speaker 3: So, I having trouble understanding or accepting how people can
still view religion so non critically. And I know that
that you know when you're raised in a particular religion.
I mean I was raised Methodist and then Catholic, and
you know, and I eventually worked my way out, but
my mother also raised me to question everything, which sort
of set me up for disaster when it came to
religion anyway, And I understand there's a difference between following
a particular religion as well as what you want your
belief system to be as being two different things, you know.
I mean, we can look at the Bible, and you know,
I remember very early on being like, who was Cain's wife?
If there were only the four of them, you know, Adam, Eve, Cain,
and Abel, How did Cain and Abel get married? And
where did their wives come from? So that was like
an immediate plot hole for me at six years old.
So I feel like people can be raised in a
religion and taught not to question it in quotes, but
that there have to be things that just scream at
them as being inconsistent or wrong. And how I tie
this to where I am now is, you know, I
have friends who are pastors, and I'm in a same
sex marriage, and I learned last night that this person
that I met randomly who happens to be a pastor,
turned out to be the pastor that my husband had
approached to officiate our ceremony. And he backed out like
two weeks before we got married, and he still feels
guilty about it, and it was whatever issues he was
having with it had to do with you know, the
fact that it was the same sex marriage that he
was officiating, and it was a little too liberal for
him to be able to do. But yet we've been
married a little over a year now. Every time this
pastor bumps into my husband, he's still apologizing for doing that.
So he clearly knows that his position was wrong and
sort of created a little bit of chaos, but not
enough to like change his ways or mend his ways
when it comes to what his religion is telling him
to do. And I'm trying to understand because where I
I you know, my husband told me this last night
actually is when I found out about it, and my
response was, well, good, he should feel guilty because he
was in the wrong, and I'm glad on some level
he knows that, but clearly it's not enough to push
him a little further along. And when I look at
the people in my life who are really religious, who
seem to not be getting it, I look at them
and I'm like, you really should know better. I'm hoping
you can speak to this a little bit, because it
really baffles me when I look at somebody in front
of me who's clearly intelligent, who's clearly thoughtful, compassionate, a
good person in many other metrics, but as soon as
something comes up against their religion, it's like, oh no,
I can't think outside the book or think outside the box.
I have to go along with what my religion says.
Speaker 2: I think this is the dilemma. People are very modular
our brands. It's funny how we can be logical here here, here, here, here,
and then have the place in the brain where the
weird shit lives. And it's not just religious people that
do this. I've seen people across the color and culture spectrum.
You know, I met atheist flat earthers. Was it Mehdi Hassan?
Who's this?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 2: He's not an uneducated guy who hosts his own show,
and he's kind of a global name out there, and
he believes that Muhammad rode to heaven on a winged horse.
What the hell? And I find myself thinking, how do
you not see it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's kind of My husband is at the
point now where he's like, do you have to bring
it up? Because I can't just sit there with some stuff.
I used to be a little more tolerant, but you
catch me on a bad day and I'm just like oh, well,
you shut up. I bump into people who have to
throw praise God or praise Jesus every other sentence somewhere
in there to thank them for I don't know that
they found their keys or whatever, and I'm like, just
come on, just stop for a second. Or when they
try to engage me on the fact that I'm in
a same sex marriage and aren't you worried about going
to Hell and I'm like, well, not really, because I
don't believe it's there, so you know, and I've been dead,
so you know I can use that as a that too.
Speaker 2: You can't just throw that out you've been dead.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had a heart attack and I had a
near death experience, and I didn't go to Hell, and
I didn't go to Heaven, and I was in a
white room and all the typical descriptions that most NDEs have.
And I also know what happens in your brain when
your brain thinks you're going to die. But the bottom,
I mean, I had a born again Christian tell me
that I didn't really have a near death experience because
I didn't see Jesus. And I said, so, you're critiquing
my near death experience as not aligning with your religions,
so it didn't really happen. And I'm like, I don't
think it works quite that way, but okay, all I
know is that they had to bring me back with paddles,
you know, and I know all the stuff that happens
in your body when you are close to death happened
to me. So you know, I think those are the
qualifying things. Because he was also, well, God brought you back,
and I was like, well, not unless the God's name
is Jerry, because that was the paramedic who shocked me,
you know. So it becomes a whole thing. But when
I say that to a Christian or other ultra religious person,
they don't have anywhere to go because I've had an
experience they haven't had. So I keep that in my
back pocket.
Speaker 2: Oh God, if I were sitting at the table with you,
I'd be like, all, Hail Jerry, we worship the Jerry.
Let us pass the plates for Jerry.
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: Changing minds, I think starts with understanding how belief in
the brain work. And I've become fascinated. I'm preparing a
speech that I'll be giving in late twenty twenty four
and touring with in early twenty twenty five about why
facts don't change minds. I've been having a lot of
conversations with Melanie Teresa King at thinkingspower dot com about
all the times I walked into a room and I
showed them the data, and I opened the Bible and
I pointed at the verses and I said here, here, here,
and here, and then I showed them the overwhelming a
a lance of evidence for evolution here, here, and here,
and all of the prophecies that were not fulfilled, and
the contradictions and the immorality, the slavery, the infanticide, the genocide,
thinking yes, once they see it, they'll see it, and
they never saw it. Instead it was fight, flight or freeze.
And there's a reason for that. People approach an ideological
threat in the same way they approach a physical threat.
They will lock down or fight back. And so I
think we have to understand that there is a defense
posture rooted in how they identify. Christianity isn't just a belief,
it's an identity. So if Christianity isn't true, then the
ground beneath their feet just dissolves. And that's terrifying and
it's understandable why it's terrifying when I see somebody in
my circle who says God bless or the Lord brought
us a beautiful day, or any of that stuff. I
don't worry about that. I don't jab them for it,
because that's just going to put him on the defensive.
If somebody says, praise Jesus, the chemo worked, I will
jump in and say, well, let's not forget the physicians
and scientists who were behind the treatments. If someone's coming
after me and they're doing that condescending thing, then I
tend to turn up the temperature. Then my language becomes
a little sharper, and I push back a lot harder.
Speaker 3: And I tend to think that's where I'm at most
of the time. I sound crankier than I really am,
because it's a thing where when I run into a
situation where someone expects me to echo or mirror what
they're saying and I just simply refuse to do.
Speaker 2: That, doesn't it come down to gauging intent. If someone
says I'll pray for you, and that is how they
have been trained by their culture to express concern, I
don't sweat that. But if someone comes to me and says,
i'll pray for you, as if it's a conversation stopper,
and they're condescending to me because I am one of
the unwashed, hell bound heathen. That's a different kind of
i'll pray for you. It's almost like bless your heart.
If someone's being sincerely kind, Oh yeah, your heart, or
if they're like, bless your heart, which is that that
teeny tiny fuck you that I like to talk about.
I mean, we have to gauge intent, and that determines
how we respond.
Speaker 3: Sure, absolutely, as well as being the idea of saying
grace before a meal, you're forcing me to engage in
this ritual with you, and that's where I'm like, no,
you can go ahead and pray over there if you're
that worried about my cooking, but I don't have to
join in and I'm not stopping you. So be as
respectful of me for not forcing me. And not all
religions do that. So I could be a different religion
and it would be just as rude. You would just
be happier about it if I just happen to be
a different religion in that situation.
Speaker 2: So if they invite us to say grace. I think
we just thank Jerry. Oh, Jerry, we thank you for
this turkey, your mashed potatoes, Jerry, we appreciate your generosity
and grace. All hailed to Jerry. So that's my new
guard for the week.
Speaker 3: Bro, Jerry.
Speaker 2: Even thanks for calling.
Speaker 5: Brother.
Speaker 2: Just keep kicking. And I don't know how to change
minds as much as I think i've in my own life.
I'm going to slow my role. I'm trying to I'm
trying to tap into our shared humanity. I'm trying to
make people feel less attacked unless they're attacking me. But
I don't think there's a magic bullet. So if you
find one, you call us.
Speaker 3: Okay, I will do that, Thanks, Seth, take care, Yeah,
see you later.
Speaker 2: It's funny the stuff that is not directed at me.
When I get together in a religious gathering of family
and friends, they never, of course, will ask me to
bless the meal. They know better, and they never ask
me how work is going. I've noticed that much. I'll
go around the table. How are things at the office,
how's your job going as a nurse? Hey, didn't you
get a promotion? Did your office move?
Speaker 4: Wow?
Speaker 2: What's that like? Are you working from home fantastic and
they just skip me, seth, how is work? Knowing that
my work is an atheist tackctivist. I am a full
time atheist activist. Nobody asks me how work is going,
and I just find that interesting because I'd like him
to ask again. Getting back to the most unpleasant character
in all of fiction, here's one in the Book of Leviticus.
Did you know that the God of the Old Testament
certainly wouldn't let people approach him in his holiness unless
they qualified for the cover of People magazine, Like you
have to be beautiful in order to approach God? How
freaking shallow is this verse? Leviticus, Chapter twenty one, verses
eighteen through twenty one. For whatsoever man he be that
hath a blemish, he shall not approach a blind man,
or a lame or he that hath a flat nose,
or anything superfluous, or a man that is broken footed,
or broken handed, or crooked backed, or a dwarf, or
that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy
or scabbed, or hath his stones broken by the way
stones testicles. So if you have broken balls, you screwed.
You can't go and talk to God. No man that
hath the blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest
shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord
made by fire. He hath a blemish, he shall not
come nigh to offer the bread of his God. Anytime
you hear Christians talk about the God of the Bible
being this all accepting, come as you are Deity, just
pull up Leviticus chapter twenty one, verses eighteen through twenty
one and say, okay, well, I hope you don't have
a flat nose, a crooked back, or crushed balls because
you're screwed not able to go talk to God according
to the Old Testaments. I've got two to nine, is it? Scott? Scott,
thanks for calling. What do you want to talk about?
Speaker 4: Trying to just understand trump Ism? You think I would
be used to it by now, but I just can't
grasp how people in my circle still follow the man.
Speaker 2: Who's in your circle. What are we talking about.
Speaker 4: I have family members, I have neighbors. I live in Utah.
I have a Mormon neighbor that flies his flag daily
and wants to preach about Trump and just worships the
man and I used to be kind to her, but
I do not hold any punches anymore. It's been long enough.
I constantly remind her about how he likes to physically
assault women, allegations of child abuse and sexual assault and
criminal and she just she's got excuses for everything. I'm
just constantly reminding her. I said, an, you know, the
man's a convicted I said, He's been found primarily liabel
to as assaulting women, and he's bagged about assaulting women.
And these people just have excuses, and I just struggle.
It's time to understand it. I should be used to
it by now, but I'm not.
Speaker 2: Oh you know, I hope we never get used to it. Scott.
You know that's the key. We cannot get used to it.
I mean, how much of this insanity has been normalized?
Have you noticed that whenever we see the craziest thing
in the headlines, we have become so numb. There's so
much scar tissue that these days we barely blink. We're
ten years ago it might have been a huge deal,
and now we're like, oh shit, you know, there is
no bottom. Stephen Hassen is a cult expert. He's an
ex mooney. He was part of the Mooney cult, and
he busted out and he wrote a book called The
Cult of Trump. And it is interesting to see that
people do to Trump that they do to their gods
and their cult leaders. They have removed their individual identity
or latched it, welded it, melded it into the identity
of the leader and the culture, which is maga. And
then whatever he says goes. If he wants to eliminate
the constitution, hey, you know he's the one in charge,
He's the dear leader. If he wants to go and
fire half the government and eliminate the Department of Education
and put his hands on women and declare war on
whoever it rubs him the wrong way, well you know
he's the dear leader. Will follow his lead. It's an
absolute surrender, and it is very much a cult model.
It is a thought stopping culture. I share your frustration
because I think if you and I had behave one
to one hundredth of the way that Donald Trump had
behaved toward anybody in everybody be cast off by the
people in our own communities.
Speaker 4: Right absolutely. I have an older brother that our whole life,
I've always we've always gotten along We've never had an
unkind word to say with each other, and because of Trump,
we don't speak. We have it spoke since January sixth,
and it's all because of Trump. He has a girlfriend.
I was in his living room. They had Fox News
on and Trump was on, and she kissed the TV
and I was disgusted, and they I have the problem.
Speaker 2: I think it was doctor Hector Garcia who had written
about how I'm going to take it in the teeth
for this. But among political conservatives globally, not just in
the United States, there is more of a gravitation toward authoritarianism,
tribes and tribal symbols, which is why we didn't see
a Biden flag everywhere. I mean we see some, we
saw some. We're seeing some Kamala stuff out there, but
we're not seeing a truck drive by with twelve Commala
flags on it the way we've seen it with Trump.
I mean, there is a utility of tribal symbols. The
American flag is a tribal symbol. Waving the gun is
a tribal symbol, the red hat is a tribal symbol.
And I think these are very much things that political
conservatives rally around, you know, they make them part of
the club. They become their identity, and that takes us
back to identity beliefs, and we can all be guilty
to a degree. But I've never seen anything like it
in this country like I've seen with Maget culture. And
I grieve. I grieve that it's cost you relationships. It's
made relationships difficult for a great many people. I've heard
it as ended marriages, spouses, you know, on both sides
of the political spectrum. It became a conversation about values.
They just couldn't share the same space because they didn't
live in the same world.
Speaker 4: Right, you talk about in the marriage I divorced my
life in twenty sixteen. There was a lot behind that,
not politically related, but it was the political aspect of
it that drew the final straw with me.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know now. I don't understand how people
who are banging the Bible and doing that moral chest
thumping can embrace the worst of us. Yeah, And all
I can say is I share your frustration, and I
look ahead to November and I think, please let sanity return.
And so you and I will watch the calendar and anticipate,
hopefully something good, Scott, I mean, do you have any optimism.
Speaker 4: I'm really feeling good about Kamala and yeah, I'm feeling
good about this election.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sorry about your brother, but I'm so glad
you're here. I'm glad you're called. And let's try to
mean pain some hope, but more than that, let's maintain
momentum and keep working. Okay, absolutely, all right, be safe,
We'll see you. What's that book? It's called Why Smart
People Believe Dumb Things. There's this myth that intelligent people
can't adopt and embrace and protect stupid ideas. That's ridiculous.
Intelligent people can often have some of the worst ideas,
and they can be the most clever at trying to
rationalize those ideas. I get sick and tired of the
meme verse saying that everybody is just it's all about
IQ or mental illness. I'm thinking of doing a speech
maybe in the next year or two, about some of
the worst atheist arguments I have seen. I know I'm
going to become a target. I'm going to paint a
big bull's eye on me if I do that, because yeah,
it was Seth is just tone policing. And I'm like,
shut up. Yeah, I'd like to think after fifteen years
on the front lines of the movement, having these conversations
on an hour by hour basis, seeing what does and
does not work, I qualify to offer a perspective on
what does and does not work, what is and is
not a good argument. You can take it, you can
leave it. But I'm not tone policing by saying that
religion is not a mental illness. It's just a bad argument.
It's just stupid. There's one I saw the other day
where people walked into a church and the usher was
taking their brain at the door. Oh you're walking into church,
you won't be needing this, and they take the religious
brain out of their head or something. It's just dumb,
it's superior, it's not helpful, and it's I think betrays
the fact that thinking people can have bad ideas. Reasoning
people can have bad re But it doesn't mean that
they are not intelligent. It doesn't mean they're not thinking.
They might just be having wrong think. And that's a
different conversation. I'm thinking about doing a whole speech on it,
and I'm sure people are going to come after me.
Seth Andrews. Thanks to you. People should all do it
his way. Blah blah blah. Leviticus chapter twelve has another
ditty for us. But if she bear a made child,
m aid made child, then she shall be unclean two
weeks as in her separation, and she shall continue in
the blood of her purifying three score and six days.
You know the Bible has that verse. I'm doing this
one from memory where a menstruating woman was banished from
her community for a week. I mean, they're weird about
periods in the Bible. Just kick her out of the
town for I think seven days, seven days mark Chapter twelve,
Verse nineteen. Master Moses wrote, undo us, if a man's
brother die, then leave his wife behind him and leave
no children. That his brother should take his wife and
raise up seed unto his brother.
Speaker 5: Ah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of happing. Thanks with your brother's
wife and the Bible. I'm just saying, And we didn't
put it there, We're just revealing that it is there.
We've got more calls more to talk about. And I'm
going to play a segment from my book Deconverted on
atrocities and horrors in the Bible and the day or
days that I first discovered them. That's coming up next,
continuing our conversation about the moral monster Downelle at nine
one eight. That's my home turf. You're in the Tulsa area,
I am, what's on your mind?
Speaker 6: The guy called in was talking about how he had
a near death experience. I've had one too, and it
was at home. No doctors, no medication, anything like that.
And I was wondering, as an atheist, how do you
view a near death experience?
Speaker 2: We understand that for many people that moment when the
brain is deprived of oxygen, that's something called hypoxia happens,
and this taps into memory and imagination. The brain sort
of hyperactivates in a way, and so that explains the
white lights, the memories of Grandma, et cetera. There are
some people who come up with the story that, well,
you know, I had a near death or post death experience.
I was on the table for three minutes and I
floated above my own body, and I heard exactly what
the doctor said. And I couldn't have known that because
I was dead. Yeah, but I mean, what do I
do with an anecdote like that? You know, and if
we see many people saying the same types of thing.
It's interesting, but the plural of anecdote is not evidence.
I am curious, though. Tell me your story. You were
dead on the table.
Speaker 6: I was in my bed. I had an affection. I
become sepsist, and I tried to wake my ex husband up.
He told me to go back to sleep cause I
was hurting and everything. Everything went black, and I felt
my self jerk out of myself, and I saw myself
looking down at my ex husband and my son in
his crib beside my bed, and I was going up
and I'm like, what is this? And I went through
like black, and so I'm going up through black, and
all of a sudden, I see a white It's beautiful.
I'm not scared of dying, you know. It was beautiful
as golden and white, and it felt peaceful and loving.
And I said, God, not right now. My son need
to me, Please God, not right now. And I hit
my body. I felt myself hitting my body, and I
woke up and I was able to crawl across the
floor and call for help.
Speaker 2: So let's say that I had taken a hallucinogenic, that
it affected my brain, be it lack of oxygen or
just causing the synapses to fire in funky ways. And
I had a dream that I was flying in a
kaleidoscope of color, and I saw all the people in
my life who have already died and passed on, and
they welcomed me, and we all hugged and reassured each other,
and then I felt myself slammed back into my phys form.
What would you do with that? If I, you know,
I'd taken a substance that had produced a story like that,
would you feel like it actually happened? Do you think
my mind was just kind of a playground that made
it feel like it happened.
Speaker 6: From what I'd gather, hallucinogenics make your brain bleed, so
I would view it as that. I don't think taking
anything can make you have a godly experience or anything
like that.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, hallucinogenics make your brain bleed. I'm not
sure that's accurate.
Speaker 6: Yes, from what I gether whenever I was in school,
something about the brain detaching from the side of your
skull or something like that, and it causes your brain
to bleed.
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to do a little peer review
on that one. I don't think that's I'd not convinced
that that's correct. But how do you know that it
was God? I mean, you mentioned the word God. Was
it God that was part of your NDE?
Speaker 6: I don't no, see, I do not believe in a
Christian God or any god of any religion. I think
if that was God, God is an energy maybe that
we go back to. Does that make sense? I don't
believe in an all knowing, powerful God that strikes us
and puts us on hill and all that stuff. I
just think if that was God, God, this energy or
this life that we all go back to, well.
Speaker 2: I would like to see some evidence for that. But
knowing that the brain tends to fire in unique ways
when we are in moments of trauma or oxygen deprivation
makes me skeptical that we have tapped into a supernatural membrane.
The day somebody is able to demonstrate that, I would
be insanely curious. I would like to know that. But
I appreciate you telling me your story. I'm glad you're okay.
I'm glad you came back to life. I'm glad you're
still with us. You know that's huge. So that's the
I think that's the headline donell you know you didn't
die that day.
Speaker 6: Now, Well, thank you for answering my question.
Speaker 2: I don't know that it was an answer, I think
more than anything else, anecdotes they're interesting, but they're not evidence.
I think we have to keep digging, and so you
do it. I do it. We'll see what happens. Okay,
thank you, all right, see you later, Steven. Are you
with me? Yes?
Speaker 5: Your audio is terrible, but I can't understand what you're saying.
First of all, I must say it says that I'm
a great, big fan, read your books, I like your show.
And I only say that because I don't want you
to think that I'm deliberately trying to shut anything down.
You had made a comment earlier, which is very common
in Athis circles, that Jesus said this or did this,
and God said this and did this and testament of
the other. And I am much more of a skeptic
perhaps than you are, because I don't think that God
said any of those things. I don't think Jesus said
those things. If they did, we have little evilents if
none about that. What we do have evidence of is
a scribe who wrote down something. Maybe they heard it.
Maybe they invented it, maybe they it was done some
whole cloth. I don't know. But I take a bit
issue when you say that Jesus said something, God said something.
All I know is that a scribe, an anonymous scribe,
Yet two thousand and more years ago, said something and
we now are reading it.
Speaker 2: Stephen, do you genuinely believe that I think that a
deity wrote those things. I'm essentially just saying what the
Bible says. It says, but it's not because I believe it. So,
I mean, you might call me a poor skeptic, but
I don't. I mean, the title of my channel is
a right. The thinking atheist is sort of the brand
that we use. I don't believe in any god anywhere.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 5: Yes, and I certainly agree with you. I'm only objecting
slightly to comments that many people make, many atheists make.
But God said this, and Jesus walked from the garden.
We don't know any of that stuff, and I don't
think that's emphasized pufficiently. That's on my only point.
Speaker 2: Okay, you think atheists genuinely believe God walked in the garden, No,
they're I think reciting the stories. It's like if I
was talking about Lord of the Rings and I said
Gandal was speaking to Frodo. Doesn't mean I believe in Gandal.
But we are talking about the narrative of the story,
so we can address the words that claims the actions
within that story. We're giving the context and the characters,
but it doesn't mean we believe in those fictional characters.
That's fair, isn't it.
Speaker 5: That's fair, and I agree with you. I don't think
we have any dispute at all those points. I just
feel that someone calling in or tuning into the show
might be misled because they hear you saying or any
other raceus saying the things that I find it out
as an example.
Speaker 2: Okay, well I'll keep that in mind moving forward. Man,
I appreciate your call.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Okay, thank you for talking to me.
Speaker 2: You are most welcome. Thanks for your perspective. When I
say Yahweh said this, When I say Jesus said that
Moses went to liberate the Israelites, Gionah was inside the
belly of the big fish, John wrote the Book of Revelation, etc.
Do you think I do I come across as someone
who literally believes those things. Am I misrepresenting I don't
think so. By the way, got a message in from
Downell who called just a few minutes to go to
the show. I saw this. She said, I'm the one
from Tulsa that ask about the near death experience. I've
been googling hypoxia and sepsis. I think you're right. I
thank you. I've always wondered about that. I think it
would explain why people experience almost the same thing. So
I think we got a correction on the whole brain
bleed LSD thing and hypoxia and sepsis. At least that's
how I read that. So Donell, thanks for the call
and thanks for the clarification. Years ago, I told the
story of my deconstruction and deconversion in a book, and
I did a whole chapter on the moral monster, and
I really like the way I said it way back then,
so I'm just going to plague you the chapter again
in just a second. Hang On. I was just a
few years out of my religious days, and I wanted
to chronicle my story for two reasons. I wanted to
talk talk about my own journey while it was still
fresh in my mind, but also encourage other people who
might be trying to understand or maybe navigating doubts of
their own. And so I wrote a book. It released
in December of twenty twelve. It's called D Converted, the
Journey from Religion to Reason. And I got to the
point in the story where I was talking about going
back to Genesis one one and reading the whole Bible
objectively or more objectively for the first time, and I
got what I called scripture shock. Maybe you know what
this is like when you don't have the rose colored
godglasses on, you read the Bible and you're like, oh,
wait a minute, Wait a minute, is that it? Wait
a minute, Ah, that's crazy, that's horrifying, it's offensive, it's
im moral, it's it's right in front of me, and
it has been the whole time. So I had that epiphany,
and chapter eleven of D Converted sort of chronicles a
few of the things that jumped off the page and
slap me in the face. And so, you know, if
you've heard this, my apologies if I'm being redundant. I
know a lot of people like the way it's laid out,
because it is an assembling of bullet points for people
who say that God is always good, all the time anyway.
Chapter eleven of Deconverted will be the last segments of
our show today.
Speaker 1: Teaching hatred to children could be the gravest offense to
our species. Kujill, Cincinnati, Ohio.
Speaker 2: Chapter eleven, The Edge of the Sword. The God of
the Bible endorses rape no kidding. Within the pages of
Christian scripture, God Yahweh, Elohim, el Shadai, yeshiwa Jehovah, Jirah,
the Alpha and the Omega condoned and sometimes even instructed
the kidnapping and sexual assault of women. As a child,
I had heard a dozen times the account of Lot
Genesis nineteen, verses fifteen through twenty three. A righteous man
was saved from the destruction of the wicked city of Sodom.
His wife turned into a pillar of salt for disobediently
turning around to look. This story was classic Sunday School fodder.
Man was wicked, God was merciful, Obedience was rewarded, disobedience
was punished. Justice was done. Meanwhile, hidden in plain sight.
A few verses earlier, Lot God's righteous servant had offered
to protect his angel guests by offering up his own
virgin daughters to be raped by a crazed mob Genesis
nineteen six through eight. Lot went outside to meet them
the mob, and shut the door behind him and said, no,
my friends, don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have
two daughters who have never slept the man. Let me
bring them out to you, and you can do what
you like with them. But don't do anything to these men,
for they have come under the protection of my roof.
How exactly does take my daughters their virgins constitute righteousness?
Can you imagine any moral father saying something so obscene?
Wouldn't you, as a parent, throw yourself between your own
children and harm, even at the cost of your own life.
A frothing mob pounds at your door for the purpose
of sexual violence, and you flame your daughters into the
firing line like skeet. Meanwhile, as Lot was indeed rescued
and rewarded after this revolting display, his wife was struck
down by God for the heinous crime of looking over
his shoulder. The story gets even better. Lot's daughters got
their father liquored up Genesis nineteen thirty four so they
could take turns having sex with him. To quote preserve
our family line through our father. Well, of course, when
you have baby fever and there are no male prospects
in the immediate area, it's perfectly acceptable to date rape
your own parent. God offered no word of protest over
this incestuous rendezvous. Perhaps he was still fuming about those
icky homosexuals back in Sodom in Numbers chapter thirty one,
verses seventeen and eighteen. God continued his promotion of sexual
violence by instructing Moses to kill all of the male
Midianite children and quote, kill every woman who has slept
with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who
has never slept with a man. Save the virgins for yourselves. Really,
Apologists insists that the soldiers bore no malice nor intended
any violence to these teenage girls, also shrugging off the
kidnapping angle and lauding God's merd for sparing lives. I mean,
I suppose you can talk yourself into believing that the
kidnappers blessed the abductees with joyous lives of equality and
freedom free from strife. But you'd have to be hitting
the mescalin pretty hard. Deuteronomy chapter twenty, verses thirteen and
fourteen had God laying out the rules for battle, instructing
the slaughter of all the men, women, children, livestock, and
possessions could be taken as plunder for yourselves. The following
chapter encourage the taking of enemy women as wives if
a soldier was attracted to her, complete with Yahweh's direction
to shave her head, trim her nails, and put aside
the clothes she was wearing when captured. Deuteronomy twenty one,
Verses twelve and thirteen. Nice kidnap her, alter her appearance,
and claim her. Not happy with the woman that you
just abducted after slaughtering her previous husband, and no problem,
just release her like a stray cat. The list goes
on and on. Rape victims actually received a death sentence
in Deuteronomy twenty two, twenty three, and twenty four punishment
because they did not scream for help. The twenty eighth
chapter instructed that a rape victim must marry the rapist,
with the rapist paying fifty silver pieces to the father
is compensation. Second Samuel twelve eleven and twelve had Yahweh
hand delivering wives to other men to be raped, saying quote,
this is what the Lord says out of your own household.
I'm going to bring calamity on you before your very eyes.
I will take your wives and give them to one
who is close to you, and he will sleep with
your wives in broad daylight. Zachariah fourteen announced that a
day of the Lord is coming Jerusalem, when your possessions
will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.
I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight
against it. The city will be captured, the houses ransacked,
and the women raped. Throughout scripture, women were burned alive
Leviticus twenty one. They had their limbs hacked off Deuteronomy
twenty five, eleven and twelve. They were shunned as unclean
Leviticus twelve five, and were relegated to the shadows of
the man's authority. For Timothy II eleven through fourteen, these
women who weren't branded as whorees and harlots were given
strict instructions to shut up, remain submissive, and know their
place in the pecking order. For his Corinthians eleven eight
and nine said, for man did not come from woman,
but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman,
but woman for men. I'm ashamed to admit that these
passages were new to me. I had been baptized in
the gooey poetry of Ephesians five twenty five, where husbands
were instructed to love their wives as Christ loved the church.
One Corinthians thirteen. The Love Chapter had been recited at
countless weddings and Valentine's Day church functions, punctuating the misty
eyed romance of it all with the climactic thirteenth verse.
And now these three remain faith, hope, and love. But
the greatest of these is love. Somehow, my pastors and
teachers had neglected to teach us about God's evil twin,
the sexually obsessed executioner, who regarded women as the mere
spoils of war, objects to be plundered, second class, and expendable.
And those passages were the tip of the iceberg. God's
contempt spread well beyond women, to anyone who rankled his
petty sensibilities. Reading the verses of scripture without a deferential filter,
I discovered example after example of a bloodthirsty and murderous
dictator Exodus thirty two to twenty seven. After seeing the
golden calf, God commanded the Levites. Each man strap a
sword to his side, go back and forth through the
camp from one end to the other, each killing his
brother and friend and neighbor. Three thousand were slaughtered, and
God was pleased. Numbers, Chapter fifteen, verses thirty two through
thirty six. A man gathered sticks for a fire on
the Sabbath. By God's command, he was stoned to death.
Number sixteen twenty seven through thirty three. The men were rebellious,
so God caused the earth to open and swallow up
the men, wives, and children. Numbers twenty five nine. A
plague from God killed twenty four thousand Judges seven nineteen
through twenty five. Under God's direction, the Gideons defeated the Midianites.
They killed and decapitated their princes and delivered the heads
to Gideon. Judges eleven, twenty nine through thirty nine. Jeptha
cooked his beloved daughter on an altar as a human
sacrifice to God in gratitude for giving him victory in
battle for Samuel six nineteen, some of the men of
Beth Schemesh looked into the ark of the Covenant. God
killed all seventy of them. For Samuel fifteen seven and
eight God commanded Saul to attack the Amalekites and quote,
totally destroy everything that belongs to them, Do not spare them.
Put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle
and sheep, camels and donkeys. Second Samuel six, verses six
and seven. The oxen carrying the ark of God stumbled,
and Uza reached out to steady it. God punished this
irreverent act by killing him where he stood. First Kings,
thirteen fifteen through twenty four. A prophet lied to a man,
telling him that it was fine to eat bread and
drink water in a place that the Lord had previously
told him not to. The deceived man ate and drank there.
God sent a lion to kill him, and his body
was thrown down on the road. Second Chronicles, thirteen seventeen.
God delivered the Israelites to Abijah and Judah five hundred
thousand enemy dead. Ezekiel twenty twenty six. Israel rebelled, and
God's punishment was sobering. Quote. I let them become defiled
through their gifts, the sacrifice of every first born, that
I might fill them with horror, so they would know
that I am the Lord. Filled them with horror There
was plenty of horror in the Book of Joshua, the
book that contained the celebrated story about Joshua's miraculous victory
at Jericho. As they blew the trumpets and the walls
of the city fell, I still remember the song we
sang as children and Sunday School. Joshua fought the Battle
of Jericho. Jericho, Jericho. Joshua fought the Battle of Jericho,
and the walls came tumbling down. This catchy little ditty
conveniently ignored the specifics of what happened after the walls
came tumbling down. Under God's direction, Joshua's army became a
blood drunk horde of executioners, putting men, women, teenagers, and
infants to the edge of the sword. The soldiers then
pillaged the gold, silver, bronze, and iron for God and
burned the city. This scene of carnage would be repeated
throughout the next several chapters Joshua Chapter seven, verses nineteen
through twenty six. Acan conquered his son's daughters, cattle, donkeys, sheep,
and possessions were taken to the Valley of Acre, where
they were stoned and burned. Joshua chapter eight, twenty two
through twenty five. Twelve thousand men and women were slought
Joshua ten ten through twenty seven, all of the Gibeonites
verse twenty eight, all of Mikida verse thirty All of
the city of Libna was put to the sword Verses
thirty two through thirty three, all of Lakeish verses thirty
four and thirty five, all of Eglon verses thirty six
and thirty seven. The army killed the king of Hebron,
its villages, and every citizen. Quote. They left no survivors
Joshua ten, thirty eight and thirty nine, all of Debur
Joshua eleven six. God commanded Joshua to defeat the army
at the waters of Merim. Quote, you are to hamstring
their horses, which is a horrible act of animal cruelty,
and burn their chariots. You know it's funny. Sunday school
teachers never taught us these stories when I was a kid,
or even as an adult. And the fun continued as
I dove deeper to discover that Christianity, sacred and holy
Bible showed God endorsing slavery and the beating of slaves Exodus,
chapter twenty one, verse twenty and twenty one actually allowed
masters to physically assault their slaves, providing that the beaten
slaves were able to stand after a few days. God's
law in Exodus twenty one seven actually provided instructions for
fathers who were selling their daughters into slavery, and true
to form when it came to women, Leviticus twenty seven
decreed that female slaves were worth half the value of
male ones. Some Bible stories were just bizarre. For Samuel, eighteen,
verses twenty five through twenty seven explained how David gave
King Saul a dowry of two hundred Philistine four skins
to earn the hand of Saul's daughter Michael in marriage. Oh,
I'm sure this really spice things up at the wedding reception.
Penis flesh, Oh, it's lovely. Deuteronomy twenty three to one
instructed that no one whose testicles are crushed or whose
male organ is cut off, shall enter the assembly of
the Lord. Genesis thirty eight, verses eight through ten had
God telling a man named Onin to have sex with
his brother's wife in order to produce a child, and
when Onin instead pulled out and ejaculated on the ground.
God killed him right there. Deuteronomy twenty five, verses eleven
and twelve dictated that if a man was in a
fight with another man and his wife intervened by seizing
the opponent by his genitals, the woman's hand was to
be hacked off at the wrist, foreskins, testicles, seamen, genitals.
For an omnipotent master of the universe, God sure had
a conspicuous and violent obsession with the penis. Stories like
these and so many others were extremely disturbing, But he
was even more disturbing to watch Christians excuse them away,
offering up lazy explanations that would be rejected wholesale if
applied to the Koran or some other religion's Holy book.
You know, it was a different time. His ways are
not our ways. Some of those stories are just metaphors.
Just stick to the New Testament not the Old Testament.
Or he's God, so he can do whatever he wants. Apparently,
we mere humans cannot possibly comprehend an infinitely superior being.
Biblical curses, decapitation, kidnapping, rape and fanticide, human sacrifice, and
rivers of blood were all part of a greater plan
that we mortals cannot digest. And according to the armchair apologists,
even if God had acted with bigotry, misogyny, petty jealousy,
frothing rage, and cruel vengeance, well, it's his universe, his game,
his rules, and the obedient Christian is expected to simply
fall in lockstep, shut as his mouth and trust that
Father knows best. As I continued to dig I found
that many of the scriptures that weren't wildly offensive were
either contradictory or demonstrably false, like the Nativity story. Matthew
Chapter one, verse twenty says that the Angel appeared to Joseph,
but Luke chapter one, verse twenty eight says that the
angel appeared to Mary. Luke. Chapter two, verses one through
three says that Querinius issued a decree for a census,
but the Book of Matthew mentions no census at all,
and Querinius's census didn't actually take place until six CE,
and that census would have taken place in Joseph's local
tax district like his own hometown, and only the male
heads of households would have been required to register. Matthew
Chapter two verses thirteen through sixteen declares that Mary and
Joseph fled to Egypt to escape Herod's death edict for
the firstborn children. Yet Luke two thirty nine says that
they returned to Nazareth and there's no mention of Herod
at all. The virgin birth story is actually based on
a mistranslation of the Hebrew word alma, which translates young
woman of marriageable age and could have been applied to
any young woman without any immaculate conception backstory. The Hebrew
word for virgin is actually bethulah. Also interesting, several pre
christ pagan gods were also said to be born of
a virgin, including the gods Perseus and Romulus. We three Kings,
a popular Christmas legend and song. Well, that's not factually
tethered to the Nativity story. Matthew chapter two, verses one
and two calls the magi or illusionists, and there's no
mention of the number three anywhere. Contrast this with Luke
two twenty five, which says that shepherds, not magi, journeyed
to see baby Jesus in the manger. A few other contradictions.
Can a man be righteous? Genesis chapter seven, verse one
says that Noah was righteous. Job two three tells us
that Job was righteous. Luke one six says Zachariah and
Elizabeth were righteous. James chapter five, verse sixteen says that
some men were righteous. First John three seven says that
Christians can become righteous, but Romans three to ten states clearly,
quote as it is written, there is no one righteous,
not even one who is punished for sins. Ezekiel eighteen
twenty asserts that the penalty of sin lies solely with
the sinner. The son shall not bear the iniquity of
the father. But Exodus twenty, chapter five declares that sin
contaminates generations. Quote I the Lord, thy God, am a
jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children.
Unto the third and fourth generation? Does God keep anger forever?
Jeremiah chapter three, verse twelve, For I am merciful, saith
the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever. But
in the very same book, Chapter seventeen, verse four declares,
ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall
burn forever. Who brought the copernium Centurion's request to Jesus
In the New Testament, Matthew chapter eight, verse five says
it's the centurion himself. Luke chapter seven, verse three states
that the Centurion sent elders. Luke chapter seven, verse six,
Now this is the same book. In chapter as Elders,
it says the centurion sent friends. Where did Jesus go
after feeding the five thousand? Mark six point fifty three
says that Jesus and the disciples went to Genessaret. John
chapter six, verses twenty four and twenty five says that no,
they went to Copernaum. Where did the anointing of Christ
take place? Mathe U twenty six six and seven tells
us that the anointing happened quote in Bethany, in the
home of a man known as Simon, the leper oil
is placed on Jesus's head by an unnamed woman. Luke seven,
verses thirty six and thirty seven says that the oil
was placed on Jesus's feet, not his head, at the
house of a pharisee in Galilee. John twelve three says
it wasn't an unnamed woman who annoints Jesus, but Mary.
Did the cursed fig tree wither immediately? Matthew twenty one
nineteen says the tree withered immediately. Mark eleven twenty declares,
and in the morning, as they passed by, they saw
the fig tree dried up from the roots. Also, why
would Jesus be angry that the fig tree had nothing
for him to eat? Wouldn't an all knowing deity know
when fig season is now? Bible scholars like to rationalize
that Christ was using the tree as a metaphor for
or the nation of Israel. But if that's the case,
it's uncanny how often this god man so often rejects
plain speaking in favor of muddy, confusing symbolism. What were
Jesus's last words on the cross? Matthew twenty seven forty
six says, my God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?
And this contrast Luke twenty three forty six, where Jesus's
last words are Father, into thy hands, I commend my
spirit and John nineteen thirty has them as it is finished.
Who were the first visitors to Jesus's tomb. Matthew twenty
eight one says it was Mary Magdalen and the other Mary.
Mark sixteen one says there was a third person, Salome.
Luke twenty four to ten lists the two Mary's Joanna
and quote the others. John Chapter twenty, verse one mentions
only Mary Magdalen, how did Judas die? Matthew s through
eight states that Judas hanged himself, but Acts Chapter one,
verses sixteen through nineteen says, quote, now this man purchased
a field with the reward of iniquity, and falling headlong,
he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels
gushed out. Those examples are just a few of many,
And for the first time in my life, I was
examining the different accounts of identical events side by side,
astounded and embarrassed that I hadn't noticed the discrepancies before.
I brought these Bible born examples of bloodlust and incongruity
to the attention of friends and family, only to be
met with shrugs of indifference. Nobody had satisfactory answers, nobody
joined my chorus of concern, Nobody really cared, and their
lives moved forward without a hitch. Happy scriptures were embraced
and extolled, and nasty verses were just blinked away. If
there were problems with the Bible, Christians didn't know, and
the worst part was they didn't want to know. I
hope this broadcast, this conversation has been useful for you
and might be useful in the future. If someone gives
you that look, that sort of happy clappy mannequin stare,
and holds up their Bible and says God is good
all the time, Amen, Praise Jesus. If that happens, well,
now you've got even more examples of why that may
not be true. Thanks for listening. I'll see you later.
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