WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.919 This is Sham and I with the Mets and welcome 2 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:04.320 to Netflix and Nerds. 3 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:26.280 Hello, and welcome to Batflicks and Nerds, the Baseball podcast 4 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:29.320 with the British Twist. I'm your host John McGee and 5 00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:30.760 joining me again, Russell. 6 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:33.399 How are you doing? Are you? I'm doing good. I'm 7 00:00:33.399 --> 00:00:33.880 doing good. 8 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:36.600 Pumped up after all our last conversation we had with 9 00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:38.359 coach Gilliam and I think this one's going to be 10 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:42.119 as intriguing and as motivating. 11 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:46.759 Yeah, I'm not gonna that's a that's already really high expectation. 12 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:50.000 Is a good friend, but he's way more engaging with me. 13 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:53.399 That isn't true. That isn't true. So yeah, Russell's Russell 14 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:55.600 sort of tipped the wink there. This is another another 15 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:59.600 special guest we've got and it's I mean, I don't 16 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:01.880 know if I'm doing you down here, Kyle, but it's 17 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:03.439 it's different, right, I was going to say a change 18 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:06.040 of speed, but it's different. So it's a pleasure for 19 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:08.359 us to be joined by Kyle Body. For those who 20 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:10.359 don't know him, Kyle was the founder of drive Line, 21 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:13.840 the company at the forefront of revolution revolutionizing data led 22 00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:17.000 and personal training programs in baseball. He has worked with 23 00:01:17.159 --> 00:01:20.439 numerous collegiate baseball programs and major league teams, including his 24 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:23.480 minor league pitching director of the Cincinnati Reds and a 25 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:27.760 special assistant to Boston Red Sox PBO Craig Breslo. He's 26 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:30.480 also one of Joey Votto's chess partners, which is the 27 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:34.319 most important thing for us in this conversation. Kyle there, welcome, 28 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:35.319 thanks to your time. 29 00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:39.359 Yeah, my pleasure. Great, great, great intro for Yeah. 30 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:42.519 So God, you are one of the most connected men 31 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:45.239 in baseball. I'm really glad that you know Tyler Russell 32 00:01:45.239 --> 00:01:46.920 and I spoke to Tyler last week and we had 33 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:49.760 a great time. How can you not in the environment 34 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:51.079 of the Savannah Bananas. 35 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:53.040 It's incredible what he's done. 36 00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:56.879 It certainly is. But let's let's focus on new Kyle, 37 00:01:56.920 --> 00:01:59.640 and let's focus on drive line. So we connected over 38 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:01.840 Twitter a couple of weeks ago. I bonded a little 39 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:04.079 bit on social media about some of your new New 40 00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:06.719 Year's advice which you were giving, which I absolutely loved, 41 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:11.039 which is to just do stuff. So for you, I 42 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:13.759 think immediately this was about your playing chess. But it 43 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:17.199 seems from a distance that like this is a creed 44 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:19.560 for you. As a guy who started out as a 45 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:22.400 card counter at poker tables then learned how to hack 46 00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:25.280 poker websites, you've had a spell in the corporate world 47 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:28.199 and then effectively you've brought that sort of hacking mindset 48 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:30.439 to pitching development. So this is this is what you're 49 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:32.199 all about. Just do stuff, Kyle, isn't it? 50 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:33.439 For sure? For sure? 51 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:35.639 And as you know, as embarrassed as you can be 52 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:38.400 tweeting about baseball, any of us, all of us, anyone 53 00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:41.199 listening out there, I promise losing to a nine year 54 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:44.520 old and chess over four hours is very humbling. 55 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:47.280 Don't worry. If I can lose to a. 56 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:49.479 Nine year old chess, you can tweet about some stuff 57 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:51.560 and maybe get you all that people on Twitter and 58 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:52.360 slanning ways bad. 59 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:56.199 I didn't think we were going to start out about 60 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:58.879 losing losing to nine year olds at chess. But so 61 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:02.000 what is it about approaching stuff like that? Tyler? What 62 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:02.879 is it? Kyle? 63 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:03.240 Tyler? 64 00:03:03.639 --> 00:03:05.039 Both basehead? Kyle? 65 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:05.759 What is it? 66 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:08.439 Why is that being your approach? And how have you 67 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:10.240 brought that to to baseball? 68 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:12.360 Well, I mean you mentioned about with Joey and the 69 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:13.560 chess partner stuff. 70 00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:16.319 But they really got me into it in twenty twenty 71 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:19.199 before the pandemic, you know, they played Chess is really 72 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:21.680 popular inside major league clubhouses. There's a lot of downtime 73 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:24.680 and people can only play so many cards, and chest 74 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:27.360 has become really popular, so they kind of got me 75 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:27.680 into it. 76 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:28.199 I played as a. 77 00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:30.879 Kid, but very little, and I don't know, it just 78 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:35.360 kind of really took hold. And it's just difficult. The 79 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:38.960 game is really hard and it's unlike anything else I've done. 80 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:42.319 I've been a professional gambler, played manage to gathering other things, 81 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:45.800 but I don't know, There's just something about a really complicated, 82 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:47.039 really difficult game. 83 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:50.400 That is learning. 84 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:51.840 There's like there's nowhere to hide, you know, and like 85 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:54.360 baseball and there's like randomness, right like batted balls luck 86 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:56.840 and batting average on balls and play and then all 87 00:03:56.840 --> 00:03:57.560 this other stuff. 88 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:00.639 But in chess there is a little bit of element 89 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:01.159 of luck. 90 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:02.879 And like what you know and then what people play, 91 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:06.000 and people can run right into your preparation. But I mean, realistically, 92 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:08.280 it's like ninety nine percent skill, and so you only 93 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:09.599 have yourself to blame when you lose to a nine 94 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:11.960 year old, which is it's is pretty cool actually in 95 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:12.479 a lot of ways. 96 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:14.039 So I don't know, I really don't know why I 97 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:14.919 like it so much, but I do. 98 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:17.319 That's really interesting what you're saying there about. You know, 99 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:20.360 you're having been a professional poker player, a game with 100 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:23.040 pretty pretty rigid real sets, which if you know, if 101 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:24.519 you know how to hack the game, then you know 102 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:27.519 how to win, you know, within within averages and so on. 103 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:29.519 But then Magic the Gathering, which is a game that 104 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:33.639 is famously like almost impossible to hack, as is baseball, right, 105 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:36.519 and you brought what have you brought from poker? And 106 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:38.240 I guess what are you bringing from chess into the 107 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:40.519 sport of baseball? And how does that differ from what 108 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:41.839 you brought from Magic the Gathering? 109 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:45.319 Yeah, poker and magic there's really huge overlap, you know, 110 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:47.839 like some of the world champions are also great magic players. 111 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:51.279 So it's like a pretty it's you know, hidden information, 112 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:55.600 probablistic and so what I've I'm really lucky because if 113 00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:57.040 you don't grow up playing games like that, or you 114 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:00.120 don't grow up playing games of chance and understan and 115 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:02.959 how it applies to life, A lot of people, I 116 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:05.120 mean most people are deterministic, you know, like if I 117 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:07.800 did X y Z and I got ABC results, then 118 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:10.600 it's because I did X y Z that I got ABC. 119 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:12.600 And that's not true. Right in baseball, there's a lot 120 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:14.360 of luck that goes into it. I mean drive line 121 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:16.680 success is there's a lot of luck that goes in 122 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:17.959 the drive line being successful. 123 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:20.759 And this isn't just necessarily modest, but it's true. 124 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:24.120 Like if, for example, like if drive Line was trying 125 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:28.160 to exist before Moneyball, that would be nearly impossible. Like 126 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:30.879 what is written in Moneyball that is really relevant to 127 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:33.240 drive Line? And the answer is not much. But it's 128 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:36.240 about the fact that Moneyball comes out the book and 129 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:39.000 it changes the mindset of people who can work in 130 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.720 front offices. Like so certain types of people work in 131 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:45.079 front offices, certain types of thinking about probabilistic about on 132 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:46.720 base percentage and the draft. 133 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:47.600 Those all change. 134 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:49.759 So as a result, like the concept of thinking about 135 00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:53.720 player development differently is also on the table. Right, the 136 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:56.120 Astros is winning the World Series very lucky for us 137 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:57.759 because when they win the World Series, a lot of 138 00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:00.399 people are forced to admit that maybe there's a different 139 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:01.240 way to do things. 140 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:02.680 And of course most of the focus is on the 141 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:03.319 cheating and the. 142 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:06.839 Tanking, you know, but in reality, the player development machine 143 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:10.720 that Lunaw and those guys built is something that opened 144 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:12.680 up the eyes of people inside baseball. And so that's 145 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:14.480 a lot of luck. If the instros don't win, you know, 146 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:16.439 oh well, the anstwers were dominant, do they really need 147 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:18.560 to win. Yeah, you do need to win to change 148 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:21.160 to people's minds. Whether that's fair or not. That's how 149 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:23.800 it is. And why are we talking of today about 150 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:26.360 how angry everyone is about the Dodgers and signing all 151 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:28.480 these players and whatever. Like, would they be as mad 152 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:30.160 if the Dodgers don't win the World Series? I don't 153 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:32.759 think so, it'd still be mad. It is twitter, you know, 154 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:35.720 but like these things are have a huge impact and 155 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:37.639 you don't control any of it. So a big part 156 00:06:37.639 --> 00:06:40.399 of like poker and magic is understanding that, like luck 157 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:42.720 plays a big role in your success and your failure. 158 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:45.519 And learning to just deal with that rather. 159 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:47.959 Than being mad about it all the time is something 160 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:51.240 that I think is I'm really lucky to have experienced 161 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:53.319 that as a kid, to understand that probab you know, 162 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:54.839 probablistic thinking is the way to go. 163 00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:58.279 That's really really interesting and it's sort of it does 164 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:00.480 lead me on quite nicely to I was going to 165 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.600 ask about what were the things that in your opinion, 166 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:06.720 so drive line has become a sort of a cipher 167 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:11.240 or a pseudonym for sort of player development in modern baseball. 168 00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:12.959 You know, it's it's always a theme of the off 169 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:15.759 season outside you know, the Shenanigans of who's going to 170 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:19.160 land where it's it's a conversation about whose training where 171 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:22.680 and what focus have they got. In your opinion, what 172 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:25.920 were the things that shifted that, Kyle, from being you know, 173 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:30.040 an approach that you were perfecting with a small number 174 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:32.120 of players who had brought into it really early guys 175 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:34.360 like Dan Stralia and Joe Bimel and people like that, 176 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:37.560 and took it to you know, being that that sort 177 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:42.839 of synonymous sort of you know, Leviathan within baseball where 178 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:45.160 player development was. Was it just those things that you 179 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:46.920 mentioned or what were there any things that you saw 180 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:48.439 for it that have helped shift the dell. 181 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:53.000 To it's really you know, you pointed the big leaguers 182 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:55.680 that have come through here, and that's certainly what's the 183 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.079 most public, but it's really more about the minor leaguers 184 00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:01.480 and the college players and the high scho players. And 185 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:03.639 that's what Andrew Friedman told me many many years ago, 186 00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:05.040 you know, when he was with Tampa and I was 187 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:05.720 interviewing there. 188 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:07.879 He said, the best way to affect change is for 189 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:12.319 like amateur players to then force the issue on their 190 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:14.040 way up. In Cleveland, I think was you know a 191 00:08:14.040 --> 00:08:16.040 big one obviously Bauer going up through that, but then 192 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:20.560 more than that, it's Clevenger and Pisano and uh, you 193 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:24.240 know the entire double A roster was you know, using 194 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:27.199 that Casey weathers Uh, you know, tons of those players, 195 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:29.240 Mitch Brown, players that never even got to the big leagues, 196 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:32.799 JP firerise and demonstrated, and the Andrew Miller deal. You know, 197 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:35.960 many many many players in Cleveland and Houston and others 198 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:38.120 had really started that change. 199 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.559 And that's what influenced it because people, you know, all 200 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:43.840 we watch typically are you know, in the big leagues 201 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:47.000 or the fans generally, but they're paying so much attention 202 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:47.679 to the farm system. 203 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:48.720 That's the prize jewel. 204 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:51.279 You know, you can't you know, the Dodgers can spend 205 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:53.360 all this money for sure, but like that's that's no 206 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:55.559 guarantee of success. Look at the mats, I mean even 207 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:57.320 the Dodgers. Who knows if it will actually work, you know, 208 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:00.360 but I mean it probably will. But it's the fact 209 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:03.799 that their pipeline of pitchers is constant, you know, and 210 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:07.000 their players development is still very good. So that that's 211 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:10.279 what gets noticed in the GM you know landscape, I 212 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:13.879 would say, is how much is being done, who's transforming 213 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:16.440 the minor leagues, who's transforming these players that are coming 214 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:17.559 up that are cost controlled. 215 00:09:17.879 --> 00:09:19.879 And I think that's what really got the people's attention. 216 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:21.919 From the fans perspective, it's like all that happens to 217 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:25.159 the big leagues, but what catches the GM's attention is like, hey, 218 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:28.039 this a ball team sucks and they don't now yeah, 219 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:30.720 and these players we have reports on, we have them 220 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:34.200 as like not trade, Like we're not interested in this player. 221 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:35.519 JP fire As might. 222 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:37.600 Be one of the better examples, Like they had a 223 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:42.440 Division III pitcher drafted Wisconsin and people had like non 224 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:44.519 prospect grades on him, you know, and then within two 225 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:46.960 years they were like, hey, this is a should acquire 226 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:49.320 like eighth you know, eighth n guy, back end guy. 227 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:50.559 And when healthy JP is. 228 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:53.080 Quite good and so then that that's a good example 229 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:54.679 of when scouts are like, I saw this guy three 230 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:56.960 years ago and he sucked, and now he doesn't suck, 231 00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:00.559 and then that kind of spurs the change. And that 232 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:02.559 really happened at the amateur level. Oregon State was a 233 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:06.080 big one, Vanderbilt was a big change. And yeah, so 234 00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:08.639 I think that's what really causes people to really question 235 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:09.440 their beliefs. 236 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:12.240 So when you go through that, is that what kind 237 00:10:12.279 --> 00:10:14.919 of those stages that maybe a lot of people haven't seen, 238 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:18.039 is that what turned Drive Line from Kyle Body's idea 239 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:20.559 into like a via built business. I've seen a few 240 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:23.399 interviews you've talked about before, especially with that discussion you 241 00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:26.360 had with Freedom about wanting to do this. I think 242 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:28.200 is initia that you wanted to go into an organization 243 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:30.679 and make this change, and he told you to make 244 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:32.120 the most change, you're actually gonna be able to do 245 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:33.480 it outside an organization. 246 00:10:34.279 --> 00:10:36.720 Yeah, and he had you know, he backed it up 247 00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:39.279 with obviously, I'll listen to anything, Andrew says, we catch 248 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:43.879 up every so often, but you know he had concrete reasoning, right. 249 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:45.840 He was like, you know, David Price, you know, we 250 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:47.879 didn't develop him. Hopefully we didn't scum up. 251 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:48.360 So that was good. 252 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:49.679 Yeah, but it took him first overall. He was the 253 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:52.919 obvious overall pick, first overall pick. But with David came 254 00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:54.960 like weighted ball stuff that he had done at Vanderbilt, 255 00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:57.720 you know. And so when David is using what the 256 00:10:57.799 --> 00:10:59.399 tempa going to say, no, you can't use it. No, 257 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:01.360 of course not right, like they have to accommodate it. 258 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:03.279 But then other players seem using weighted balls. Then they 259 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:06.039 started asking questions and it's just that seed of an 260 00:11:06.039 --> 00:11:09.639 idea that starts rolling, and uh yeah, that's kind of 261 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:11.559 That's that's how it happened. And Andrew was one hundred 262 00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:13.799 percent of right on that. I wasn't necessarily convinced. I 263 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:15.480 mean I didn't know anything about baseball all the time, 264 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:17.799 so I didn't, you know, I thought maybe he should 265 00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:18.879 blowing me off like that. 266 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:20.399 But it turns out that Andrews is right. 267 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:23.440 And when he hired me with the Dodgers, that's exactly 268 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:26.720 what happened with LA, Like we used weighted ball programs 269 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:29.559 with the players, you know, they're back end minor league 270 00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:32.080 guys that were like non priority. Then they end up 271 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:34.320 trading two of them for for help. They trade Corey 272 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:38.159 Copping and Andrew Isler for Ryan Madison and expert I 273 00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:40.759 can't remember who else was. Uh, so they trade those 274 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:44.399 guys then, uh, you know, the biggest breakout that everyone 275 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:48.240 kind of knows now from that program was Tony Consoling 276 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:50.720 and so then it all takes out of those things. 277 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:52.879 And then you know they had drafted Walker Bueler out 278 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:56.399 of Vanderville, and Walker was very vocal about supporting weighted 279 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:57.519 ball stuff and this stuff. 280 00:11:57.559 --> 00:12:00.120 So you have both ends of it, and so he 281 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:00.960 was right, like I listened to. 282 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:02.519 I mean, obviously Andrew is one of the best to 283 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:04.840 do it when it comes to not just you know, 284 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:06.799 signing all the expensive free agents, which he does do 285 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:09.039 a good job of that, but also like how to 286 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:12.559 build an organization around that, and how to truly build 287 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:14.679 an organization not a baseball team, Like how do you 288 00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:15.559 build an ecosystem? 289 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:17.440 And I've learned a lot from Andrew on that on 290 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:17.879 that front. 291 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.440 But this is part of the conversation. You know, we're 292 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:22.759 having this conversation in the midst of the Dodgers having 293 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.279 just signed Brocus to Saki and Tanna Scott. But you know, yeah, 294 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:28.120 you're right, Kyle, that they have all the money, but 295 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:30.159 those decisions aren't made in a vacuum, are they They 296 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:34.840 maybe because of the focus that that organization has on 297 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:36.519 developing the plays to be the best that they can 298 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:38.600 be and to succeed as a as a collective. 299 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:41.399 Yeah, and building a relationship. MLB is much closer to 300 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:42.919 the NBA than than people realize. 301 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:44.799 Is like, you know, it's when we're talking about the 302 00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:48.399 kind of money that these players are signing for. In 303 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:51.960 additional five to ten million, you know, for Tanna Scott, 304 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:53.879 probably a big deal because you know, that's a lot 305 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:56.360 of money. But for Otani and the others, not necessarily. 306 00:12:56.799 --> 00:12:58.159 You know, they want to make sure they sign for 307 00:12:58.159 --> 00:12:59.960 a winner. They want to be comfortable where they are, 308 00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:02.519 and relationships play a huge role in where they're gonna sign. 309 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:06.240 And that's true about Otani and that's true about anyone really. 310 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:10.039 But you know, that's what Andrew I think, not saying 311 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:11.440 that he's really good at that and that's the only 312 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:12.960 thing he's good at, but I mean he understands that, 313 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:15.120 you know, building an ecosystem and winners you have to 314 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:18.320 win for sure. But additionally, like how do you develop 315 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:21.399 relationships with Japanese agents, marketers and that kind of stuff, 316 00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:23.200 And you've been doing that for years to a lot 317 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.000 of teams that don't I don't think a very good 318 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:27.679 job of that of that, And that's why consistency at 319 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:29.879 the front office is also extremely important. You know, like 320 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:32.200 Andrew's been with the Dodgers for quite some time now, 321 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:34.879 but when you have this constant turnover in the front 322 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:37.120 offices that these free agents that they want to they 323 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:38.759 want to make sure you know that there's going to 324 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:40.919 be consistency and they feel comfortable with to certain people. 325 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:42.960 And that's why Atani has an opt out. You know, 326 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:47.000 if Andrew leeves uh that that's a that's that's important 327 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:49.639 to him, and it should be because you're talking about 328 00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:51.039 a lot of money. Yeah, but Atani can get a 329 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:53.799 lot of money from anywhere, right, It's more about like, yeah, 330 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:55.039 does he want to win, for sure, he does, I 331 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:58.279 know a TONI pretty well. But more importantly, he wants consistency. 332 00:13:58.279 --> 00:13:59.720 He wants to be sure that this is going to 333 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:03.480 be the last contracted science probably and so then that's 334 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:05.600 that's all part of organization building that I think is 335 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:06.279 kind of hidden. 336 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:08.720 You know, our fans aren't necessarily that interested in. 337 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:12.440 So obviously, like we took the drive line has become 338 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:14.799 quite a significant player in the baseball world, How would 339 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:17.960 you like describe drivelines like core philosophy, Like when it 340 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:19.799 comes to player with development, I. 341 00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:22.159 Think data driven player development is what we do best. 342 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:25.960 It's kind of our tagline. Yeah, we try to make 343 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:29.720 decisions based on you know, high probability that they're going 344 00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:31.240 to work, you know. So, like there's a lot of 345 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:34.080 swing coaches and pitching coaches that are that are good 346 00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:37.080 for sure, but a big problem is that you always 347 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:39.000 experience of these organizations' is like, oh, well, we have 348 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.519 the best pitching coach at you know, for a major 349 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:43.960 league team. Sure, what's gonna happen when that guy like 350 00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:46.080 leaves or quits or is like done? 351 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:49.399 You know that that's not great? Like what did he teach? 352 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:50.240 How did he teach it? 353 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.000 And being able to distill those systems down into or 354 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:56.120 those ideas down into a system that can be repeatable 355 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:58.320 that we can train people because we lost I don't know, 356 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:01.000 I think fifty employees now to prefer baseball. 357 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:01.519 Something like that. 358 00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:04.919 So then we learned really early like hey, you know, 359 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:06.799 you got to have a repeatable system. And this is 360 00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:08.759 something I learned in Houston under Lounaw and sing and 361 00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:11.639 Elias was. You know, they hired a bunch of pitching 362 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:14.960 coaches and weird people like me out of like schools 363 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:17.960 and in places no one cared about, Like, no one 364 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:19.879 cared about drive Line, you know when I started there 365 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:23.679 in twenty thirteen, twenty twelve, and they hired Chris Holt 366 00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:25.480 from you know, he was working at a drive line 367 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:29.279 type place. Drew French was, you know, fired from a college. 368 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:32.720 Bill Murphy had been like won like six games at Brown. 369 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:34.840 They got fired, like, oh, we're just a bunch of losers. 370 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:37.679 And then if you pass forward, like Murph is now 371 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:40.519 the big league pitching coach, Holt is our bullbend coach 372 00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:43.440 in Boston. Franch is the pitching coach in Baltimore. Like 373 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:45.559 these guys are all have all moved up, and they 374 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:49.200 did really good talent identification early. But then when they 375 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:51.639 lose all these people, like then what have you lost 376 00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:52.120 in Houston? 377 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:53.600 And it turns out that, you. 378 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:57.919 Know, the system is bigger, you know than any one individual, 379 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.480 and they really believe that and they did a good 380 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:00.879 job of that. 381 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:02.039 And so then that's what we had to do in 382 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:02.519 drive Line. 383 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:04.679 It's like, how do we develop systems that survive any 384 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:07.960 one person leaving, including me, And that's my job as 385 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:11.200 the chief Technical Officers is chief technology officers. How do 386 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:15.240 I build these systems that our athletes receive, you know, 387 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:19.559 a consistent experience with the fact that we have the 388 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:23.159 best intelligence that trains them for what they need to do, 389 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:25.720 but then also coaches that we feel very confident in 390 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:28.120 training in a short period of time that can convey 391 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:30.200 that information because AI is not going to do that 392 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:33.720 anytime soon yet. So humans that actually developed these relationships 393 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:35.559 are you know, probably the most important thing we do. 394 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:39.279 Yeah, No, that's cool. I think obviously we talk about 395 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:42.360 one of the key aspects is having that uniformity about 396 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.080 how you collect the data and how you approach it. 397 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:46.720 But I think you have to then get into a 398 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:49.559 player specific customization when you actually then tailor what you 399 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:51.600 want to do with this information and the program that 400 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:55.320 like then goes on for those individuals. How have you 401 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:57.559