Speaker 1: How is it. We've got so many places with people
Speaker 1: that have private properties with this activity, and how do
Speaker 1: they deal with it? In my mind, we've got a
Speaker 1: species complex. I'm not convinced we're dealing with the same
Speaker 1: darn thing across the board from here to Alaska down
Speaker 1: to South America. It's just amazing the variation we share.
Speaker 1: What is an extreme variation of them? I think we're
Speaker 1: still finding out and all these things that people would
Speaker 1: claim that they could do with all these superpowers, this
Speaker 1: you know, paranormal if you like, or science that hasn't
Speaker 1: caught up to them or whatever. It just becomes intriguing,
Speaker 1: especially in a little bit that dabbles with you and
Speaker 1: you experience some of it yourself.
Speaker 2: I'd like to welcome Dan Adrello to the show. Dan
Speaker 2: is a professional photographer and a biologist from Wisconsin. And yeah, man,
Speaker 2: thanks for joining me.
Speaker 1: Lost appreciate it.
Speaker 2: So just to get us started, you know the question
Speaker 2: everybody asked, how did you end up in the Bigfoot world?
Speaker 1: Well, to expand on that, I'll just say I was
Speaker 1: an animal guy. Early when all the other kids said
Speaker 1: pet goldfish, I had a bullfrog tadpole. Turns out later
Speaker 1: there's probably a green frog tad pole, judging by our location.
Speaker 1: My father passed away when I was five, and I
Speaker 1: knew right away I wanted to travel. In the same month,
Speaker 1: we ended up moving up into my mother's parents, and
Speaker 1: her father passed away the same month, so I lost
Speaker 1: my father and my grandfather. So I knew right away
Speaker 1: there's none of those shit's guaranteed. If you're gonna get
Speaker 1: crap done, you better probably do it as fast as
Speaker 1: you can. And unfortunately I took that to the stream,
Speaker 1: but I say it unfortunately, But on the other hand,
Speaker 1: I'm glad I did. I don't walk well now. I've
Speaker 1: been a victim of Brusidis, and it's a struggle to
Speaker 1: walk a mile or to stand for three or four
Speaker 1: hours without having pain. And I'm getting better and I'm
Speaker 1: making improvement. I'm playing on dropping significant Wait, long story short,
Speaker 1: How did I get into the Sasquad stuff? I knew
Speaker 1: that there were two things on this planet I wanted
Speaker 1: to do. I wanted to see as many animals as
Speaker 1: I could see, and I wanted to travel as hard
Speaker 1: and as fast as I could go, which I accelerated
Speaker 1: as soon as I could drive a vehicle. Nobody ever
Speaker 1: took me anywhere hardly, and so all my friends got
Speaker 1: to see all over the country in the United States
Speaker 1: and Yellowstone and all this and all that, and I
Speaker 1: did nothing. And we did touch around Canada once when
Speaker 1: I was in sixth grade, and then when I was eighteen,
Speaker 1: my grandparents took us to South Dakota, which was pretty cool.
Speaker 1: And after that it was all me. And as far
Speaker 1: as the interest in the animals, I was going to
Speaker 1: be a herpetologist, so I was your little American Steve Irwin,
Speaker 1: and I had what I would call snake fever. I
Speaker 1: just loved these dinosaurs, and there weren't any real dinosaurs
Speaker 1: left to study. I wasn't very familiar with m Kelly
Speaker 1: Movembi and didn't know Adam Davies so at the time
Speaker 1: when I was in third grade, so you know, you're
Speaker 1: just reading and reading and reading. One of the first
Speaker 1: things I found out was how terrified adults were snakes,
Speaker 1: and I could not understand that. And so right away
Speaker 1: one of my niches was to through four ancient boy
Speaker 1: Scouts public relations regarding Okay, this is a bull snake,
Speaker 1: this is a timber rattler, easily identified by the black
Speaker 1: velvet tale and et cetera, et cetera, and so I
Speaker 1: had those activities going on from third grade on. What
Speaker 1: probably captivated me the most was snakes, turtles, lizards, crocs,
Speaker 1: all that good stuff. But then the big permates and
Speaker 1: I became a burden very early. So I was very
Speaker 1: intrigued with wildlife of all kinds. And I thought, if
Speaker 1: I'm going to be a photographer, or excuse me, if
Speaker 1: I'm going to be a repetologist and travel like crazy,
Speaker 1: I better try to document my journey, and that means photography.
Speaker 1: I got involved that heavily fast. So the sasquat stuff
Speaker 1: didn't come in until fifth grade, which happened to be
Speaker 1: the year sixty seven, so I've dated myself. I'm sixty
Speaker 1: eight now. And basically what had happened was my teacher
Speaker 1: in fifth grade stated the words abominable sumia and described
Speaker 1: a little bit about the year shifting shifting situation in
Speaker 1: the Himalayas and the eddy and I just lost it.
Speaker 1: I thought a giant primate bigger than gorillas, really, and
Speaker 1: I went nuts. And it was an encyclopedia, and then
Speaker 1: that led to literature search and I stumbled across Ivan T.
Speaker 1: Sanderson's Abominable Sumi and Let You Come to Life. And
Speaker 1: so I just studied that book all through elementary school,
Speaker 1: middle school, high school. The next thing that happened in
Speaker 1: fifth grade was I was over the buddy's place and
Speaker 1: his dad come in from sleigh in the snow and
Speaker 1: slaps the copula across tribune down on the floor next
Speaker 1: to us is a look at that guy and a
Speaker 1: monkey suit. Of course it was the Patterson film. I
Speaker 1: grabbed that, stared at it and read it nine times
Speaker 1: and just I mean, I don't have to go to Asia.
Speaker 1: And I think that happened before I got the Ivan
Speaker 1: Ivan Tis Anderson worked because obviously that coast in North
Speaker 1: America and worldwide stuff. But anyway I was. I was launched.
Speaker 1: So I was grabbing every book I could find, and
Speaker 1: there weren't very mini back there. And then all through
Speaker 1: school the problem was you just didn't have anybody to
Speaker 1: talk to about it. I knew that certain adults took
Speaker 1: it serious. I didn't know why, but I wanted to
Speaker 1: know why. And I studied the behavioral sequences and they
Speaker 1: ran parallel in so many places, and I thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: I got all these descriptions. I've got all these claims,
Speaker 1: yet there's no body. This doesn't make sense. But yet
Speaker 1: I felt very strongly that something's going on, but I
Speaker 1: didn't have those answers at all. And the first thing
Speaker 1: that ever happened to me that could have been satisfatched
Speaker 1: and appears to be, but I didn't see the callmaker
Speaker 1: was we were out in a church camp in northern
Speaker 1: Wisconsin and pine woods and something after midnight there was
Speaker 1: a number of US students in seventh grade with flashlights
Speaker 1: focusing on something loud splashing behind vegetation that wouldn't come out. Now,
Speaker 1: what was interesting about it was the vocalization. It was
Speaker 1: a hiss and I don't know if you've ever heard
Speaker 1: of a bull snake hissed before, but it can be
Speaker 1: quite loud. But this was jocks magnified literally across the lake.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I can't see raccoon doing that. The
Speaker 1: black bears do that. Black bear's hissed, but not like that.
Speaker 1: And so I was just taking with that, and I
Speaker 1: did not associate sasquatches with it at the time. After
Speaker 1: I got into the BFROH and then later after i'd
Speaker 1: hooked up with Stacey and Jim Flowers. They had some
Speaker 1: recordings in their Michigan recording project. It was close to
Speaker 1: what I heard. Plus they had visuals on the songmakers,
Speaker 1: so some of their team had so so I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: that's probably what's going on there. But all through college
Speaker 1: I couldn't talk to anybody about it. I had one
Speaker 1: student come up to me in my speech class when
Speaker 1: I was doing it on Bigfoot, and she said, Hey,
Speaker 1: I just want to know. I saw footprints in a
Speaker 1: pond when dad was stranded, and I just took a
Speaker 1: hike and I got up from the pond and looked,
Speaker 1: and here there were big prints going across the barn.
Speaker 1: Like okay, thank you. I told I have a thing,
Speaker 1: And all through my twenties parties nothing happened. I chased
Speaker 1: timber rattlers and virtually every rubber rover bluff I could find.
Speaker 1: Thought I'd probably do my master's degree onned didn't and
Speaker 1: ended up going into environmental education a lot speaking by
Speaker 1: a microphone, throwing alligators in diamondbacks and all kinds of
Speaker 1: fun stuff, big pythons on the table, and having kindergarteners
Speaker 1: line up and hold big pythons and all that that stuff.
Speaker 1: And I did that for probably forty years, and then
Speaker 1: budget cuts came and then I don't do I do
Speaker 1: very little of that now, but from time to time
Speaker 1: I get speaking engagement on it, no sasquat stuff. And
Speaker 1: two thousand my mom passed away, and I was forty three,
Speaker 1: and by this time I was listening to vocals online
Speaker 1: a little bit. My sister made a bet. She said, Hey,
Speaker 1: I bet you don't become computer literate, and I bet
Speaker 1: you don't net work professionally with other with other investigators
Speaker 1: on the subject that you love so much. And I
Speaker 1: told her, Okay, you're on, because you can't let your
Speaker 1: little sister in a bet. And I'd been wanting to
Speaker 1: learn more, and I knew there was starting to be
Speaker 1: people around and made claims and I wanted to evaluate them,
Speaker 1: and I so I started. I hooked up, and of course
Speaker 1: the bufos probably wanted and I'm kind of hanging lo
Speaker 1: and just looking and listening to vocals and seeing some
Speaker 1: reports from Wisconsin, and eventually I bombarded a particular guy
Speaker 1: whom I forgot the name at the moment, but he
Speaker 1: was out of Ohio and turned out to be Man's
Speaker 1: second buddy that was working in the Bufrorobic at that time.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and he finally faced off and said, hey,
Speaker 1: who are you? Who the hell are you? Why do
Speaker 1: you want to know all this stuff? And I said,
Speaker 1: I told him and then he said he you got
Speaker 1: a resume? I do, and he said I see it
Speaker 1: and I said sure, well it wasn't loaning me back,
Speaker 1: and said, I think you are somebody we could really
Speaker 1: use them there. Would you'd be interested in investigating hair scat,
Speaker 1: listening to vocals, interviewing people, looking at footprints. I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah. And the next thing I knew I had
Speaker 1: the password, and then I was in the organization. So
Speaker 1: I hung out there for four years. I got a
Speaker 1: little too excited, I was. I was probably far too
Speaker 1: happy than I should have been, and bugged everybody in
Speaker 1: constantly and got to meet, you know, some of the
Speaker 1: people that created the books that interested me in the
Speaker 1: first place, and notably John Green and eventually Jeff Melvermont
Speaker 1: in California in two thousand and three, Mad had helped
Speaker 1: document the two thousand and three Sasquatch Symposium International Sasquatch Symposium,
Speaker 1: and I was kind of buddies for John Bender Niggle
Speaker 1: at the time, and really hadn't got to meet Milder
Speaker 1: much and Ron Moorehead and some of the other prominent
Speaker 1: names as it came up. And what I found was
Speaker 1: being in the organization it allowed me to attack a
Speaker 1: lot of different situations and they were made by people,
Speaker 1: all these claims, and so I ended up traveling to Indiana, Tennessee,
Speaker 1: and of course Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, and eventually numerous
Speaker 1: other places including California, Arizona. But I never got a
Speaker 1: visual and I never really saw good tracks. Those were
Speaker 1: kind of hoarded by some of the top level folks,
Speaker 1: so I never really got into the fresh stuff. And
Speaker 1: being kind of I'm more of am you know, I
Speaker 1: have a tendency to go more towards the animals and
Speaker 1: wild than I did people, So while other people are
Speaker 1: having the party, I'm kind of like kicking around flipping
Speaker 1: rocks in the woods and and still not successful. So
Speaker 1: eventually I dropped out of the BFRO. Primarily my typing
Speaker 1: had gone from thirty five words a minute to one
Speaker 1: hundred and five. I did well over four hundred interviews,
Speaker 1: I published quite a few reports and pretty good standing
Speaker 1: with most of the people, but I'm ru unorthodox and
Speaker 1: like I said, my energy level was ridiculous, so I
Speaker 1: just thought it was best for me to drop out.
Speaker 1: And I had some other circumstances going on. I didn't
Speaker 1: share with people, so I just almost took from probably
Speaker 1: didn't get back into it until four oh five. And
Speaker 1: what brought me around was I met a woman in
Speaker 1: Georgia in two thousand and eight and had she claimed
Speaker 1: sasquatches under the house. Well, eventually I went there, saw
Speaker 1: my first footprints, got my first vocalisations that I considered legit,
Speaker 1: and then I would send her a recording equipment and
Speaker 1: she was able to get some recordings. So at that
Speaker 1: point in time, I felt like, Okay, I'm going to
Speaker 1: go in this and I'm going to keep working. And
Speaker 1: nothing really happened big until twenty ten. I was a
Speaker 1: private property. This I'm going to describe the situation because
Speaker 1: I think your listeners might friend it interesting. I was
Speaker 1: there on a rattleson call and I had contracted with
Speaker 1: Deanan Andor as a herpetologists for a couple of years
Speaker 1: doing Miss Saga Radle sneak work and in commercial take
Speaker 1: on Mississippi River turtles, and then survey environmental survey assays
Speaker 1: once for road operations and bridges and things like that.
Speaker 1: And basically what had happened was found this property. And
Speaker 1: she said, I said, you got any one life here
Speaker 1: that you find really interesting? He goes, boy do I ever?
Speaker 1: And that was interesting? And she went on to describe
Speaker 1: cougar screams. And I said, what was the circumstance with that?
Speaker 1: She said, well, there was. She divorced her husband. She
Speaker 1: lived there until she passed away, over thirty five years alone.
Speaker 1: And what was interesting about it was she had some
Speaker 1: activity in the basement and they assumed that was cooger.
Speaker 1: Well there wasn't any obvious footprints, but had to be cougar.
Speaker 1: And then the light that she shut the door in
Speaker 1: the basement. She went to bed about two o'clock in
Speaker 1: the morning, which courses a golden magic hour for our
Speaker 1: target species. She gets this loud, skull splitting scream stop,
Speaker 1: and she's, of course thinking cougar. I think she died
Speaker 1: thinking it was cougar, but it was. She was like,
Speaker 1: om afraid it's gonna come through the wall, for it's
Speaker 1: gonna come through the window of the wall the door,
Speaker 1: and so she moves to the kitchen with her dogs.
Speaker 1: She had two little flap dogs and they're sitting huddled
Speaker 1: around the table while this thing is just skull splitting, screaming,
Speaker 1: and in the course of the event describe rats and
Speaker 1: mice which are probably rats, and younger rests coming out
Speaker 1: of the floor boards, coming out from behind, you know,
Speaker 1: certain holes in the walls, behind the cupboards or whatever.
Speaker 1: And they were having trouble orienting across the floor. And
Speaker 1: so my first thought is, well, the pitch of the
Speaker 1: sound they have affected their orientation, so I probably should
Speaker 1: pay some attention to this property. And so I got
Speaker 1: permission over time to eventually come in at night and
Speaker 1: sit with the recorders. Didn't have a lot things happened,
Speaker 1: but on the first night where I decided this is
Speaker 1: really interesting. I've got the to set recorder going, and
Speaker 1: I had a pack of coyotes come down off the
Speaker 1: hill and run real close to me, and I had
Speaker 1: a parabolic you know, the bionic year as we like
Speaker 1: to call it, and oh, best coyote recording I ever got.
Speaker 1: So no matter what happened that night, I was happy
Speaker 1: with that. Well, uh, the next thing that happens is
Speaker 1: the land or her sneezes behind me, I mean really close.
Speaker 1: First parabolic is going to have something to do with that.
Speaker 1: So I'm sitting there thinking what is she doing up?
Speaker 1: I turned around look at the house and it's all
Speaker 1: locked up, all black. So I'm sitting in the dark.
Speaker 1: Something just sneezed from a height that was well over
Speaker 1: the fence, and my guess was it was behind the fence,
Speaker 1: possibly up the hill. So was that another coyote? Did
Speaker 1: a cougar follow the coyote pack? Or was this what
Speaker 1: I was opening up? I turned a microphone for the
Speaker 1: cassette player back on because I had actually I had
Speaker 1: shut it off because I was concerned about battery power.
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting there for forty five minutes waiting for
Speaker 1: a shifting weight, maybe a clear of the throat, maybe
Speaker 1: some sort of vocals. I just sat quiet, forty five
Speaker 1: minutes in the dark, waiting. I wasn't quite you know,
Speaker 1: I knew enough about Komber to know that the likelihood
Speaker 1: of an attack is extremely reduced, but you know, you're
Speaker 1: at see anyway because you don't want to be the
Speaker 1: one stat And finally I just stood up shut it
Speaker 1: off and said, hey, this has been wonderful. Thank you.
Speaker 1: If you're still here, I hope we can do some more.
Speaker 1: And I hear the equipment in my truck and drove off.
Speaker 1: That was one of the most curious incidences that I had.
Speaker 1: But before that, my best vocal was simply sitting right
Speaker 1: at the edge of dust. The sun was just going down.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, we've got dog coyote action up
Speaker 1: on the hill. Inswer standard are oh, and something goes.
Speaker 3: Extremely allowed low base, almost sounds like a person in
Speaker 3: the sense, and it's just that wow sound that goes
Speaker 3: across the valley.
Speaker 1: The canines were immediately quiet, so I was extremely suspicious.
Speaker 1: Gave myself a fist bump, uh, you know, happy happy,
Speaker 1: got it on recording. Send it to Michael Johnson over
Speaker 1: at SI r U Sasquatch Investigation of the Rock. He's
Speaker 1: got to Jeff Felick and numerous other people that are there,
Speaker 1: and he will be back and called me back and said, Daniel, congratulations,
Speaker 1: they do that here. And of course I didn't see
Speaker 1: the soundmaker, but that certainly filled me with happiness. And
Speaker 1: send it to another friend of mine who's deceased to
Speaker 1: head them on his property. And he said the same,
Speaker 1: and so I thought, okay, I've got to stick this
Speaker 1: place out more longer. So from about two thousand and
Speaker 1: nine to when she passed away in twenty twenty two
Speaker 1: or the twenty three, I spent a significant amount of
Speaker 1: time on that property trying to get a visual. I
Speaker 1: didn't do much banning. She was kind of against that,
Speaker 1: even though she threw a lot of her refuse from
Speaker 1: salads and stuff over the fence. And there were a
Speaker 1: few tracks, and there were some more sounds. There was
Speaker 1: wood knocking. And then I started interacting from the standpoint
Speaker 1: of like leaving a white rock on the rock ledge,
Speaker 1: noticing a big rock covered with moss, put on the
Speaker 1: rock ledge, noticing a table picked up and moved across
Speaker 1: the yard, lead up against the house. Noticed that the
Speaker 1: screens were taking off. The leaf ducks up ten feet
Speaker 1: up on the roof and laid gently down at the base.
Speaker 1: There were pipes, you know, the for the water that
Speaker 1: might collect on the edge the roof. Those were taken off.
Speaker 1: They gently in a nice pile under the clothesline. Up
Speaker 1: to five times in one year and for five or
Speaker 1: six years. So I started trying to get okay, what
Speaker 1: can I do to possibly get some interesting things going?
Speaker 1: And somewhere along the line, I decided on a little
Speaker 1: piece of tile from a bathroom floor, and I put
Speaker 1: a penny on it. Somewhere along the line that penny
Speaker 1: was moved okay, well, crows, fox nos, and I put
Speaker 1: more coins on. I continued to be moved around, and
Speaker 1: eventually they got to where they were set off and
Speaker 1: sitting vertical. And I noticed of all the things that happened,
Speaker 1: taking the coin off and sliding it and making it
Speaker 1: vertical along the edge of the tile or in a
Speaker 1: different location, but the coins were put vertically. I thought
Speaker 1: that be something that's important that I can share in
Speaker 1: the future. We'll see continued. Another interesting was there there
Speaker 1: were some bricks. One of the bricks was I noticed
Speaker 1: it sitting at seven o'clock. Excuse me, five o'clock. I
Speaker 1: made a flush, so it's like six o'clock lined up
Speaker 1: with all the other brooks. Each day I would come
Speaker 1: in here that brick is turned. Well. This went on
Speaker 1: and on for years, and I really didn't get a
Speaker 1: lot accomplished, and unfortunately they weren't earning any tracks. There
Speaker 1: was a lot of suspicious things with potential tracks drug
Speaker 1: in the substrate, and so there's nothing convincing there. Really.
Speaker 1: I left in twenty eighteen because I had to have
Speaker 1: skin grab surgery from setting myself on fire accidentally. That's
Speaker 1: a long story for another time, but I've arrived. I
Speaker 1: was in the Dame Hospital for seventeen days the skin
Speaker 1: grab surgery got back. One of the first things I
Speaker 1: did was I went to that property. Yeah, I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: it wasn't two days. And there was a plant there
Speaker 1: and it was on the trading stone and the roots
Speaker 1: were ripped off. And it's called burdock, which you may
Speaker 1: well be familiar with. It's kind of like a sticker plant, right,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, why is there burdock on the
Speaker 1: trading plot? So I go home and I check it
Speaker 1: out and the roots are ripped off and it turns
Speaker 1: out rets are a cancer inhibitor. Thank you. Apparently I
Speaker 1: didn't need that. And the next thing I'm looking at
Speaker 1: is what does brudock do? Well? Apparently it is very
Speaker 1: helpful with epidermal problems, particularly burns. The plant owner had
Speaker 1: nothing to do with this, and there were other things
Speaker 1: put on the trading block that she wasn't very happy with.
Speaker 1: So she would grow them and take them and put
Speaker 1: them on my truck and give me quite and have
Speaker 1: quite a fit about them showing up. So anyway, my
Speaker 1: first question is how did this happen? One? And two?
Speaker 1: If it's them, how would they know right? And I'm like,
Speaker 1: can they smell the burn? And my leg seventeen percent
Speaker 1: of the leg was burned below the knee, so you know,
Speaker 1: I'm third degree obviously necessary for skin grass, So that
Speaker 1: was one of the big questions. From that location. I
Speaker 1: would get wood knocks and fog, and there would be
Speaker 1: incredible lay down beds and you're familiar with deer beds,
Speaker 1: these would be much bigger. And then if you get
Speaker 1: there early in the morning, there'll be due and there
Speaker 1: would be uh trails where the bedmaker walked off and
Speaker 1: it wasn't deer, there was an impression with a large foot,
Speaker 1: so you know that could be extracted to black bear.
Speaker 1: Perhaps the best thing that happened on the property was
Speaker 1: I had been instructed to talk to the woods, and
Speaker 1: so I thought was can't hurt, so why not? And
Speaker 1: I did that And in one case we used a
Speaker 1: game cam five feet three inches off the ground, attached
Speaker 1: to the narrow pole for the clothesline, and she had
Speaker 1: one of those narrow poles with the clothesline apparatus up
Speaker 1: above was strung with string or strung with wires so
Speaker 1: that she could hit close from it. But anyway, long
Speaker 1: story short, I did get a silhouette shot, and it
Speaker 1: could be interpreted as some kind of odd dog, but
Speaker 1: you get head and shoulders, and what it appears to
Speaker 1: me is knowing that it was five ft three off
Speaker 1: the ground, my guess is individual significantly higher than me
Speaker 1: stepped back, bent down and looked into the camera and
Speaker 1: the flash did not go off. Unfortunately, that might have
Speaker 1: been that might caused the opposite effect with a blowout,
Speaker 1: pure white, pure white image. I don't know, but anyway,
Speaker 1: it looks kind of like a dude from Southeast Asia
Speaker 1: on a silhouette with his women in the air wind surfic.
Speaker 1: I guess you could say some own or whatever and
Speaker 1: big white shoulders, no neck and heavy jaws. Just a
Speaker 1: really interesting thing. And I am eventually going to put
Speaker 1: out a publication. I'll put that on top, won't make
Speaker 1: a claim and just say what do you think? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So and in time, if you'd like to see that,
Speaker 1: I'd be glad to share that with you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So those are some of the things that are
Speaker 1: going on in the meantime. I'm traveling all over the
Speaker 1: place and been a wildife photographer since I think I
Speaker 1: published first run was about twenty one twenty two, just
Speaker 1: out of college, and then I started with one magazines
Speaker 1: and books, primarily reptiles and amphibians, but we photographed everything
Speaker 1: that's s uck there. So we were in allow Stone chasing,
Speaker 1: chasing whatever we could find, you know, having interactions with
Speaker 1: coyotes and elk and all that good stuff. And as
Speaker 1: far as well, what happened next, Well, I was asked
Speaker 1: to speak in Nebraska and I got to meet Jeff
Speaker 1: Mildram again. I had met him first in three up
Speaker 1: California at that international symposium. There I finally had a
Speaker 1: good chance to interact with him talk and that was wonderful,
Speaker 1: And from there I ended up meeting him again the
Speaker 1: next year in Texas, and by that time I knew
Speaker 1: who Shane Carpenter was, so we had been talking and
Speaker 1: Shane invited me to study area in the four hundred
Speaker 1: down Missouri and of course, I'm like, you know, I
Speaker 1: still haven't got a visual, so I need some help here.
Speaker 1: And I was able to get down there, and I
Speaker 1: was the ball just Randy talked about on the night
Speaker 1: that Shane had a chance to walk seven feet seven
Speaker 1: to eight feet from one and so that was an
Speaker 1: incredible experience for me. It's the first time I got
Speaker 1: to know these guys, and that's been a wonderful journey too,
Speaker 1: simply because of all the wonderful things that change has
Speaker 1: been able to produce. Randy, of course, being an incredibly
Speaker 1: inquisitive character who's working with as many people as he
Speaker 1: possibly can. So it's been just a sure joy to
Speaker 1: work with those fellas. That particular night, I was able
Speaker 1: to see the night vision through Randy, and while we
Speaker 1: kind of heckled Chain a little bit about you know,
Speaker 1: you probably shouldn't walk upon him because it could mess
Speaker 1: up being the potential future interactions we have, but it worked,
Speaker 1: and I think Granted described that incident pretty well with you.
Speaker 1: The big thing for me was when we went up
Speaker 1: the hill. Next day we came back here, we hit
Speaker 1: a second night of them in camp, and that was
Speaker 1: especially for him because they went through all the equipment
Speaker 1: and you can hear tapping on the tables, and they
Speaker 1: got to the medical bag and seventeen or eighteen zips
Speaker 1: that somebody zipped and on zip that medical bag. Then
Speaker 1: right after that you could hear the cooler clothes. Well,
Speaker 1: what happened? So I checked that out, and appropriately six
Speaker 1: monster Cappuccino were missing, and Randy told me that it
Speaker 1: was years before they finally found one of the compressed cans,
Speaker 1: and we have no idea where the rest of those were.
Speaker 1: So but at that time we had the two juveniles
Speaker 1: and the potential mother and the father who had about
Speaker 1: fifteen inch prints. And then the last time I was
Speaker 1: there was late twenty three. I was in Oklahoma with
Speaker 1: them when Shane was coming up with the different holes
Speaker 1: in the ground, and then back over where we had
Speaker 1: documentary with the crew and there was there were wonderful
Speaker 1: small tracks laid out about ten inches that I was
Speaker 1: able to inspect and look at, and then she had
Speaker 1: cast perhaps like thirty some of them. And of course
Speaker 1: the work that he's doing with studying and watching the
Speaker 1: prince grow in size is rather amazing, and so I'll
Speaker 1: be involved with that. And then your future is I'm
Speaker 1: able to continue to correspond and investigate. So there you go.
Speaker 1: Those are some of the highlights. I was in Tennessee
Speaker 1: with private property owners in two thousand and two. In
Speaker 1: two thousand and one, I was in Oklahoma and I
Speaker 1: was without the Higgins and investigators down there back then,
Speaker 1: and we used pheromonts. And when the investigators had an
Speaker 1: individual of some kind show up on the deer stand
Speaker 1: he was sitting in and he had forgotten and left
Speaker 1: the Pheromone package in his back pocket. So whether that
Speaker 1: had anything to do with or not, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but he had presence in the brush below him as
Speaker 1: he sat up in the deer stand, and because of
Speaker 1: the circumstances were the potential aggressive salt, at least according
Speaker 1: to the landowners everyone had, who were all packed and
Speaker 1: working in twos. So when some people came over to
Speaker 1: leave him at three o'clock in the morning, out of
Speaker 1: the you're standing, something just blasted out of that area
Speaker 1: and crossed a stream with slippery mossy rocks and did
Speaker 1: it in an incredible high speed fashion. So we don't
Speaker 1: believe that was bear at all. Plus we think that
Speaker 1: we got visuals of the bear. Then you know, who knows?
Speaker 1: You know. Two. One of the interesting things there was
Speaker 1: we had a last couple moved into Tennessee and they
Speaker 1: had one night they had what they thought was a
Speaker 1: bobcat bothering their their chicken coop, and they walked out
Speaker 1: with the dogs, and the dogs would one dog would
Speaker 1: follow the other dogs. There's Dobermans and highly trained gyuard
Speaker 1: dogs that just stayed out back in the porch or
Speaker 1: roll behind them as they moved toward the chicken coop.
Speaker 1: The greenish reflective eyes moved off the chicken coop and
Speaker 1: we're still seven and a half feet up in the air.
Speaker 1: And then of course everybody's wondering what's going on. This
Speaker 1: thing turns and crashes through a fence. And the response was, well,
Speaker 1: the only thing you can do that is grizzly, And
Speaker 1: we got grizzlies in Tennessee. Yeah, no, no. So eventually
Speaker 1: I got there and I got to get involved in
Speaker 1: some of the things going on in the area. Not
Speaker 1: a lot to report, except one of the things that
Speaker 1: had happened was a large rock from the stream bed
Speaker 1: had been taken up the hill and put in front
Speaker 1: of the mouth of a cave and that worked for
Speaker 1: two reasons. One, you could sit on the rock and
Speaker 1: look down, nobody could see you, and you could watch
Speaker 1: all the activities of the of the you know, house
Speaker 1: and the shed was driving what car and what time
Speaker 1: and all that good stuff. In the meantime, if it's
Speaker 1: really hot, you've got that cool t bear coming out
Speaker 1: again on your back. So that seemed interesting. Yeah, from that.
Speaker 1: At the same time I had that going on, I
Speaker 1: was working with a woman in Virginia and she was
Speaker 1: She had answered she wasn't going to be around long,
Speaker 1: but she wanted to dedicate what time she had left
Speaker 1: to finding out what was on her property. And we
Speaker 1: got footprints of seventeen, fourteen, twelve and seven, and she's
Speaker 1: on her property. And we called the little one Sticky
Speaker 1: because wherever we walked it seemed like he was making
Speaker 1: holes in the ground, obviously with a stick. So she
Speaker 1: came up with a signature call with Doris Day's case Sarasah,
Speaker 1: and she would whistle that anytime she went outside, and
Speaker 1: she would get returns and recorded return calls of that.
Speaker 1: We did get some vocalizations coded. We did get I
Speaker 1: think she did get one picture of the seventeen inch
Speaker 1: prints night. Was The way we found out about that
Speaker 1: was she was in her bedroom at night and hearing
Speaker 1: an unusual noise and she could never figure out what
Speaker 1: it was. Well, one night she had to do something
Speaker 1: with the air cooler, the machine outside that was regulating
Speaker 1: airflow and temperatures inside. The just kind of rubbed her
Speaker 1: fingers along that and we made the same sounds she'd
Speaker 1: been hearing regularly when she was in her bedroom at night.
Speaker 1: And she's like, well, the conditions aren't good for tracks.
Speaker 1: What can we do on it? And my thoughts were, well,
Speaker 1: if you wait until we get a frost, maybe if
Speaker 1: you checked early enough in the morning, you might be
Speaker 1: able to see an indication of tracks. That way that worked.
Speaker 1: We did get seventeen inch prints before she died. One
Speaker 1: of the things she was doing was feeding them regularly.
Speaker 1: She did make one trek to the river one time
Speaker 1: and when she came back we had twelve inch prints
Speaker 1: trying to step in the prince that she made. So
Speaker 1: that was unique and interesting. She noticed when she fed
Speaker 1: them or left gifts feet, you know, different weather, leftovers
Speaker 1: or whatever. She used her trying to place a number
Speaker 1: of times just illustrate how careful they were, and she
Speaker 1: would have raccoons come in and they would wreck everything,
Speaker 1: and then and then the sasquatch would come in and
Speaker 1: clean it up, in a sense, organize it, stack it gently.
Speaker 1: That type of thing. She didn't may by us on
Speaker 1: the property, and unfortunately she passed. So there were a
Speaker 1: lot of things we would like to have done and
Speaker 1: get done. But this gave me pretty great insight as
Speaker 1: into some of the possible things that were going on
Speaker 1: back in two thousand and one or two thousand and two,
Speaker 1: two thousand and three. A lot of other things, you know,
Speaker 1: as far as talking to people on the phone, were
Speaker 1: visiting different locations, I was picking up odors, I was
Speaker 1: picking up vague, unusual vocalizations and crying like a baby,
Speaker 1: slamming metal doors, but things that could be explained by
Speaker 1: other means perhaps, so I never got a real good
Speaker 1: count earned things. I had a young couple from Iowa
Speaker 1: that kept talking about them being in the trees, and
Speaker 1: they really continued to emphasize that. One of the interesting
Speaker 1: things about that was they were from Tennessee and had
Speaker 1: previous asquatch claims from there, so that was interesting. Another
Speaker 1: Iowa one that really kind of intrigued. My interest was
Speaker 1: I had a fellow call me and he was freaking
Speaker 1: out because he and his buddies from high school were
Speaker 1: walking back to town from a fishing trip. Apparently they
Speaker 1: were taking out allowed to do what they did, and
Speaker 1: back to town. This is in north central Iowa, which
Speaker 1: you would never most people would never associate a Cornbilt
Speaker 1: state with these big guys. But he just he said, hey,
Speaker 1: we were terrified. He was big, and he was poking
Speaker 1: around behind a tree staring at us, and then as
Speaker 1: we'd go down the creek bed, he'd follow us. He's like,
Speaker 1: what in the hell is that? What is going on?
Speaker 1: How Come we don't? How come nobody blas me? How
Speaker 1: you know? All the how come questions? And that was
Speaker 1: That was in two thousand and that. That kind of
Speaker 1: made me side with a lot of people that were
Speaker 1: feeling really uncomfortable because who in the heck do you tell?
Speaker 1: Because if you tell your wife, you've got you've got
Speaker 1: some potential problems with her judgment of you and your character.
Speaker 1: And uh, same situation with or you know, with the wife.
Speaker 1: With the husbands, so many husbands don't believe what their
Speaker 1: wives and children acclaiming we have and we have a
Speaker 1: location in southwestern Wisconsin that I was able to get
Speaker 1: involved in. And I caught my first Wisconsin group right there.
Speaker 1: And the mom had seen she'd gone to the barn
Speaker 1: at night one time and before she turned the lights on,
Speaker 1: she was about to do that and on the other
Speaker 1: edge of the barn, the door slam as though somebody
Speaker 1: was over there and went out, and that happened a
Speaker 1: number of times. All the kids there were a total
Speaker 1: of approximately twenty children. Now I'm all grown up. At
Speaker 1: birthday parties and over time who claimed they saw the
Speaker 1: big black thing. And I was told this thing runs
Speaker 1: like a person on a motorcycle across the field. And
Speaker 1: I had that same description come from the Gallent, Tennessee,
Speaker 1: and there's was reddish brown going on to other reports,
Speaker 1: there's a fabulous one from Teresa who she was retired.
Speaker 1: She was in Minneapolis. She was heading home for up
Speaker 1: Michigan and maybe over toward a break to get down
Speaker 1: in the Lower Uh Michigan. And she drove across the
Speaker 1: state of Minnesota and Wisconsin and up and ended up
Speaker 1: and I forget the name of the colony, it might
Speaker 1: have been school Craft, but she found a place along
Speaker 1: the road where she was able to pull him comfortably
Speaker 1: and fall asleep. It had a little table and you know,
Speaker 1: place to cook. And she was walking up by a terrible,
Speaker 1: horrible odor, and she was convinced that it was one
Speaker 1: year old son. Must have been something terrible with the
Speaker 1: stud So she turned the overhead light on and she's
Speaker 1: working with that and she realizes he's clean as a whistle,
Speaker 1: but he's staring outside. So she looks and here is
Speaker 1: this face, and she said it was the nose was
Speaker 1: very negroid looking head goat hair and go a goat
Speaker 1: hair hanging and it was absolutely huge on her small
Speaker 1: vehicle and she had a little station wagon and uh,
Speaker 1: she is lost. I mean, what do you do? This
Speaker 1: is gonna kill Anedles. So she drops back behind the
Speaker 1: steering wheel totally. Just your brain falls out of your head.
Speaker 1: You're that terrified. I've had similar experiences, but not with that.
Speaker 1: Mine were from car crashes where everything goes in slow
Speaker 1: motion and you're you're convinced this is it. But luckily
Speaker 1: the angle or something and also allowed you to survive it.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, she's sitting there realizes, read minute, I'm
Speaker 1: in the car, so she fires up the car, turns
Speaker 1: the lights on, it backs off, stands up straight, kind
Speaker 1: of turns so the lights aren't so much in its eyes,
Speaker 1: and just watches them pull out and go back. And
Speaker 1: as I recall from her, I was friends with her
Speaker 1: for over ten years, so every couple of years I
Speaker 1: would call her and have her relate the story and
Speaker 1: just compare the notes. She was right on every time,
Speaker 1: so I have personally, I have no doubt that she
Speaker 1: hadn't happened to her. And she did eventually tell her
Speaker 1: one year old son about it, and he was actually
Speaker 1: appreciative a long story, so I think her character is
Speaker 1: very great. But what was interesting about that was the
Speaker 1: fact that the window was down some and of course,
Speaker 1: as we know, success much want you, they wouldn't have
Speaker 1: any trouble busting things to get you, so so that
Speaker 1: was interesting so much.
Speaker 2: I mean, you've talked to a lot of people, and
Speaker 2: the thing that you just touched on with that woman
Speaker 2: and the friendship that you had with her over the years,
Speaker 2: a lot of things that people miss whenever they're reading
Speaker 2: reports on the internet or people posting about their encounters
Speaker 2: on social media or whatever. Whenever you start talking to
Speaker 2: the people. Sometimes you form these relationships with them over time,
Speaker 2: these friendships, and you get to know the person, and
Speaker 2: it really makes this whole thing much more impactful because
Speaker 2: you realize, I mean, after ten years, the lady's not lying,
Speaker 2: she's not making up the story. She's certain of what
Speaker 2: she saw. So I mean, what do you do with
Speaker 2: that type of information? Because here you are, You've been
Speaker 2: at this for a very long time. At this point,
Speaker 2: you've got all these reports, you've been involved in, all
Speaker 2: these investigations hand on. Why is this thing still undocumented?
Speaker 2: Why are they so hard to photograph and get video
Speaker 2: of in anything substantial?
Speaker 1: Wonderful questions, questions that have been eating at me and
Speaker 1: bugging me for a long time. One thing that we
Speaker 1: have to deal with, and Matt pointed this out to me,
Speaker 1: is the human condition. So in order for certain things
Speaker 1: to happen, we have to have a location where there's
Speaker 1: a place to do it.
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 1: Number Two, we need to have the gear, the capability
Speaker 1: of the technology to be able to do it. And three,
Speaker 1: we have to have somebody who's capable of if we're
Speaker 1: not there, have somebody who's capable of following through the
Speaker 1: specific directions that would enhance the likelihood of things working,
Speaker 1: and that is one of the killers on this. More
Speaker 1: often than not we don't have that agreement. We will
Speaker 1: agree to it, but then when it comes down to
Speaker 1: live action, it's not happening. And I think that's one factor.
Speaker 1: There's so many factors. Me as a photographer, I had
Speaker 1: to in order to get my photography place I'm competing
Speaker 1: against in some cases some of the best photographers in
Speaker 1: the nation and in Europe. And in order to do that,
Speaker 1: my photography has to be more impactful and better than
Speaker 1: the name guys, because otherwise the name guys are always
Speaker 1: going to get it because they're dependable, they're professional, and
Speaker 1: that's always worked. So in other words, I've got to
Speaker 1: even do better. And to do that it takes tremendous time,
Speaker 1: tremendous care, a lot of luck regarding the subject, whether
Speaker 1: it's an owl or you know, I mean, wolves and
Speaker 1: cougar are almost never photographed in the wild, except for
Speaker 1: in certain locations. There are certain places in Alaska where
Speaker 1: the wolves have no fear people, and people can actually
Speaker 1: desensitize them to come in toward their den and just
Speaker 1: sit and eventually the wolves start to almost ignore you
Speaker 1: because you're just part of the deal and you're not
Speaker 1: a threat. And cougar are virtually up until recently, ninety
Speaker 1: some percent of all cougar pictures or stage virtually every one,
Speaker 1: and most of the weilllife photographers will never admit that,
Speaker 1: but it's true. I've got a friend of mine, Peggy,
Speaker 1: from Vancouver Island, and she she's a beautiful, wonderful photographer,
Speaker 1: and she is out there, so she's found those creeks.
Speaker 1: Her partner at ADS seen a squats in the distance
Speaker 1: at one time, and she shared with me an imprint
Speaker 1: that She's like, well, you know what I'll bear do it.
Speaker 1: Look what happened here, and it would add the right
Speaker 1: dimensions to to one and it was big and anyway,
Speaker 1: on and on and on. But she came up over
Speaker 1: a hill one day and there was a cougar on
Speaker 1: an oak kill and she nailed it. She wasn't there long,
Speaker 1: but she nailed it. So she's one of the few
Speaker 1: people that I know that truly got lucky with that.
Speaker 1: If we're having so much trouble with normal natural animals
Speaker 1: to get these shots, just imagine how difficult it is
Speaker 1: to deal with something suspicious that doesn't like technology in
Speaker 1: general and doesn't appreciate us more often than not. In
Speaker 1: other words, they don't we can surprise them once in
Speaker 1: a while. She did that. How in the world did
Speaker 1: that juvenile react when he came up upon it? And
Speaker 1: by the way, it was approximately five feet or a
Speaker 1: little taller, and he guessed maybe one hundred and fifty pounds,
Speaker 1: and the inches on that particular foot were just a
Speaker 1: little over ten inches, And that's interesting because half of
Speaker 1: ten is five. I came into some impressions on an
Speaker 1: individual that was said I found out later to be
Speaker 1: six feet seven because the guy measured the curst of
Speaker 1: his head over on the tree. Well, the impressions that
Speaker 1: I found fresh the next day were thirteen inches and
Speaker 1: interestingly six point five wide, so there's another two to
Speaker 1: one five feet apart. So I had no doubt that
Speaker 1: he saw what he saw just because of the impressions
Speaker 1: of the grass. He did not know anything about the
Speaker 1: subject matter whatsoever. Getting back to the photography aspect, I
Speaker 1: would love to help people with it, place like nobody
Speaker 1: needs your help because everybody knows everything. So I'm very
Speaker 1: quiet and just kind of okay, all right, if you
Speaker 1: want to talk, I'm here. And it's amazing how a
Speaker 1: little communication I get without inspiring it myself. You know,
Speaker 1: I've got dear friends and we're all busy in economics
Speaker 1: and you know all that stuff. There's only twenty four
Speaker 1: hours in a day. But it's interesting. With the photography aspect.
Speaker 1: I've got a four hundred millimeter Canon lens in the
Speaker 1: eighteen megapixel camera. Now I'm gonna bowl that up to
Speaker 1: thirty as soon as I can grab another ten hundred
Speaker 1: bucks to buy a used one. Not buy all my
Speaker 1: equipment used simply, but be careful who you buy it from.
Speaker 1: You want to buy it from somebody who bought it
Speaker 1: as a social status. In other words, Hey check this out.
Speaker 1: I've got this and it's a sound Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: take it out once around shooting at a party and realize, well,
Speaker 1: the street Vagina lens isn't so good at a party
Speaker 1: because it's so far away and I don't really have
Speaker 1: that interesting pros and shade and crows and the ravens,
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So then that stuff
Speaker 1: is usually sold and because it's usually high bucks, and
Speaker 1: if the guy wants to get rid of it. It's
Speaker 1: a lower price, and that's the way I child with mind.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I've got a good friend, Jeff Yellick, you
Speaker 1: may know, out of Colorado, and he photographed a individual
Speaker 1: there was in a pine tree or conifer, and he
Speaker 1: had rocks thrown at him. I believe that might have
Speaker 1: been twigs or eight coins. I forget specifically, he got
Speaker 1: footprints and this was repeated behavior from this particular spot.
Speaker 1: He had a two hundred and roughly a two hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty millimeters zon whens cannon, and he told me,
Speaker 1: I forget. But it wasn't a giant expensive camera. It
Speaker 1: was one that anybody could acquire, much cheaper than the
Speaker 1: cell phones that we all yield. Not me. I only
Speaker 1: have hundred dollars cell phones because they do what I
Speaker 1: needed to do. But a lot of people are punching
Speaker 1: thousand dollars or eight hundred dollars in their cell phones.
Speaker 1: And uh, well, he got the general direction of where
Speaker 1: this thing was, and he shot a number of pictures,
Speaker 1: and then he took him home and he blew him up.
Speaker 1: By golly, he got the face. Alex L. Evans is
Speaker 1: a wonderful friend of mine, who, along with Sabylla Irwin,
Speaker 1: are incredible witness detail artists. From descriptions, I'm gonna talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about Svila in just a movement. But anyway,
Speaker 1: Alex took the time to redesign the face behind the there.
Speaker 1: But that's one way of doing it. But we have
Speaker 1: to be able to shoot so that the resolution is
Speaker 1: tight and good, so when you blow it up, it
Speaker 1: doesn't make a pixel out and you get whatever you
Speaker 1: want to see. In the case of Sibylla, she I
Speaker 1: consider her best illustration from local and I forget the
Speaker 1: Bufroro investigator's name. I wrote it to town. He called
Speaker 1: her and he was looking at a six foot individual approximately.
Speaker 1: His name is Jerry Jerry dreamed. She called her and said, hey,
Speaker 1: you got some time. Yeah, well, I'm looking at one.
Speaker 1: And so then she was able to draw with him
Speaker 1: what she saw direct or what he saw directly. There
Speaker 1: was another observer as well. This guy was sitting behind
Speaker 1: a three foot brush, a b rock pile or whatever,
Speaker 1: peeking around a tree at the sky. He was raish brown,
Speaker 1: and she drew it up and so to me, that
Speaker 1: is likely the most accurate illustration she got because not
Speaker 1: only did she have the witness close at hand, he
Speaker 1: was looking at it while she was drawing it. Now,
Speaker 1: what's interesting here is when Shane came out that day
Speaker 1: in years later, I talked with him repeatedly about his
Speaker 1: experience with that instrument, who was very black and dark,
Speaker 1: and I said, what's the closest illustration that you've seen
Speaker 1: to this sky because I want to draw him or
Speaker 1: I want to make some adjustments on somebody else's And
Speaker 1: he pointed to that particular illustration with Sibylla made, which
Speaker 1: to me is very dynamic. And he said that one
Speaker 1: of the eyes looked closer to it than the other,
Speaker 1: the hairline was higher up the face than the one
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma. Other than that, it was almost to a tea.
Speaker 2: Something else that kind of came to mind while you
Speaker 2: were talking, you know, cutting your teeth in the investigation
Speaker 2: research world with the BFRO doing the report thing and everything,
Speaker 2: and then contrasting that to situations where now you're kind
Speaker 2: of meeting people who have these things basically living around
Speaker 2: their property, coming onto their property, like the woman in Georgia,
Speaker 2: for instance. Such a change in dynamic there in the
Speaker 2: behavior there seems to be, in my opinion, a cutoff
Speaker 2: or a separation between the mainstream bigfoot research world and
Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff that's actually taking place, especially
Speaker 2: in rural areas on private property.
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, My philosophy all along was if I had
Speaker 1: activities in private property, how many people do I want
Speaker 1: to know about it? Very few? Because I see the
Speaker 1: disruption it causes from the mass is knowing of a
Speaker 1: particular place. I mean, there's several ways to look at it. One, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you where it is, because we'd like to
Speaker 1: have other people go there and have experiences too. That's excellent.
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's a critical situation and you get
Speaker 1: some people that come in there with more aggressive tendencies,
Speaker 1: how's that going to help the people that live there?
Speaker 1: You know? So, I mean there's no doubt there are
Speaker 1: people that have sasquats on their properties without any activity,
Speaker 1: I mean, without even any knowledge that they're there, like none,
Speaker 1: We had no idea they're there. You know. I've got
Speaker 1: a buddy of mine, Jee Vernon, who did a book
Speaker 1: called Adam Cowney's big Foot Front or Foe, Uh you
Speaker 1: didn't He was in Wisconsin, Live too far from where
Speaker 1: I lived. I live across Wisconsin now, I used to
Speaker 1: live farther south, and my feeling was, well, we've got
Speaker 1: bearer here and we've had cougar reports all the way
Speaker 1: through the sixties. Dan I doesn't acknowledge it, and they'll
Speaker 1: even take your evidence. Well they were until recently. Now
Speaker 1: they're finally opening it up and promoting the fact that oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's male cougar's come through, but they don't find me.
Speaker 1: It's so, we certainly don't have a significant population. That's
Speaker 1: a great pr state. But if we can't handle the
Speaker 1: expansion of eastern cougar moving into Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia and over,
Speaker 1: you know, in the eastern States, and obviously they're in Florida,
Speaker 1: but the surrounding states there, how the heck are we
Speaker 1: gonna deal with the ape man? So I guess my
Speaker 1: statement here is, how is it We've got so many
Speaker 1: places with people that have private properties with this activity,
Speaker 1: and how do they deal with it? Well, I was
Speaker 1: I forget his name, but he works with Joe Doyle
Speaker 1: and Southern Illinois. Edwards meebe Bryce said it. Yeah he
Speaker 1: had talked to Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had listened to
Speaker 1: the broadcasts actually yesterday and just enjoyed it immensely, And
Speaker 1: in time, I'm hoping to reach out to him in
Speaker 1: Joseph friend of mine, So because i like to chart
Speaker 1: all these different footprints, because I'm extremely interested in that.
Speaker 1: Going going back to all these people that have activity
Speaker 1: on their private properties, I think in my case, i'm
Speaker 1: just as I'm interested in meeting as many of them
Speaker 1: as I can, because I think that's your base, and
Speaker 1: that's where you can learn so much. You allow for
Speaker 1: all the individual variations of the people that have to
Speaker 1: deal with this, plus the individual variation of the of
Speaker 1: disass clatches that are you know, actively involved in either
Speaker 1: disappearing or once in a while making a present snow. So,
Speaker 1: state by state it seems like there's different tendencies a
Speaker 1: little bit maybe, but in general it's a big wave
Speaker 1: of the same thing. But then when you look at
Speaker 1: some billa's funeraltic descriptions, it's like, this thing has a
Speaker 1: eight nose, looks like a gorilla, is thought to be
Speaker 1: a gorilla, And I've had people literally really aggressive telling
Speaker 1: me they are gorillas, And then I have other contacts
Speaker 1: that tell me I thought it was a person. It
Speaker 1: looked exactly like a person, but with hair, and you
Speaker 1: know some of the barb shoop over in Washington. Her
Speaker 1: first observation was a gorilla. She was convinced it was
Speaker 1: a gorilla. She could not believe it wasn't a girla
Speaker 1: How could this gorilla get loose from the suit? And
Speaker 1: over time there were others that didn't look like that
Speaker 1: at all. So in my mind, we've got a species complex.
Speaker 1: I was just talking to my buddy Kenny Jaholski, was
Speaker 1: a cultural anthropologist last night. We talked two hours and
Speaker 1: he has seen some and he's got some nice technical
Speaker 1: terms regarding disinterpretation of what's going on, as so many do.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm telling you more. We won't know exactly,
Speaker 1: but I'm not in mins. We're dealing with the same
Speaker 1: darn thing across the board from here to Alaska down
Speaker 1: to South America.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't like to talk in absolutes, but
Speaker 2: we can't be can we.
Speaker 4: I mean exactly what you're saying. We have.
Speaker 2: Such a wide spread of diversity in just behavior and
Speaker 2: appearance of things that are being attributed to the same thing,
Speaker 2: and that doesn't exist anywhere else on the.
Speaker 1: Planet No no this year, Okay, and Kenny and I
Speaker 1: talked a lot about the Alaska situation. And I don't
Speaker 1: know much about the Alaska situation. But fortunately I am
Speaker 1: pretty good friends with Robert, doctor j Robert Alley, and
Speaker 1: he's offered to share more time. So I'm going to
Speaker 1: take him up on that. And then I know we
Speaker 1: are to stuff there robbery and some of the other guys.
Speaker 1: Alexander Horse goes up with small town monsters, and of
Speaker 1: course I got checking. But interestingly enough, and we've got
Speaker 1: Fred Rail up there. And I was real curious because I,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's pushing how aggressive they are in Alaska.
Speaker 1: And so my first question was, well, in all those
Speaker 1: reports that Fred's got, he's got a two hundred and
Speaker 1: seventy five plus and I listened to every one of
Speaker 1: them this last year. I wanted to know what damage
Speaker 1: are they doing to the vehicles? It must be horrendous. Well,
Speaker 1: I checked all the bushplanes. Nothing, couldn't find one damaged bushplane.
Speaker 1: You know, you'd think a giant rock would be smashing away.
Speaker 1: I went to snowmobiles, found two snowmobiles to one twisted
Speaker 1: and vertically slammed into a snowbank, and then a number
Speaker 1: of other snowmobiles that were turned over, knocked over, maybe thrown,
Speaker 1: not too much damage. Once in a while the tracks
Speaker 1: have been pulled off and be put back on. Okay,
Speaker 1: there was one. I didn't find one skiff that was
Speaker 1: destroyed or hurt so that it couldn't go back and
Speaker 1: be a skiff. I didn't as far as the sledge
Speaker 1: being thrown across the yard. That happened from an enraged individual. Apparently,
Speaker 1: I was also looking at okay with no, they're damaging buildings,
Speaker 1: what's the circumstances. Nobody's in the buildings when they damaged
Speaker 1: them badly. Jeeve Vernon had this happen when his dad
Speaker 1: was gone. He took the bulldozer and he went up
Speaker 1: the hill and he put together a really cool three
Speaker 1: sided cabin that he was going to construct further. Well,
Speaker 1: it wasn't too many weeks and they went up there
Speaker 1: and it was destroyed. And he did have running with
Speaker 1: that particular male individual. It was over seven feet tall.
Speaker 1: I since followed him out when he moved to Arizona
Speaker 1: and we got to talk with him further. So I
Speaker 1: know him quite well and I have no I have
Speaker 1: no feelings of him, just in the this to make
Speaker 1: a book, and anybody who writes a book, most people
Speaker 1: aren't making much money off it. So you got that.
Speaker 1: And then getting back to the Alaska situation, the description,
Speaker 1: so many of the descriptions seem to be away like
Speaker 1: giant apes in the and withal faces. Okay, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: The only aggression that I could find where somebody really
Speaker 1: was likely to get hurt and the reports from Fred
Speaker 1: was there was one fellow that was sused to be
Speaker 1: twelve feet night shot through the walls of this and
Speaker 1: he grabs an aspen and jams it through a eighteen
Speaker 1: by eighteen inch window. Anybody standing in front of that
Speaker 1: would have been impaled, you know. So there's some serious
Speaker 1: danger there, and of course they shot at it, so
Speaker 1: you kind of expect their retribution that way. The next
Speaker 1: thing that happens is in that same report, they're getting
Speaker 1: ready to leave in tank tank tink, little small rocks
Speaker 1: are hitting the generator. In my mind, I would expect
Speaker 1: giant rocks and trumps of wood or something being you know,
Speaker 1: destroying the whole place. And it didn't get that. Now,
Speaker 1: was it just did the big guy go and then
Speaker 1: the kids came in and just messed around. No idea,
Speaker 1: but it to me, it's like if you if you
Speaker 1: utilize respect in any way, it seems like you'd be
Speaker 1: a lot better off will with total agitation, you know.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of firearms and a lot of
Speaker 1: prod people in Alaska, and I'm sure a lot of
Speaker 1: scared people. So you're telling me.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're in Alaska, out in the wilderness,
Speaker 2: out in the bush and something of that size is
Speaker 2: seemingly stalking you, uh, you're probably gonna do what you
Speaker 2: need to do to keep from being killed, because your
Speaker 2: head's not even going to go to Sasquatch. There are
Speaker 2: really of other dangers out there. And you know, the
Speaker 2: same thing happens in certain remote areas of this part
Speaker 2: of the country. And for years you heard about the
Speaker 2: aggressive bigfoot in southeastern Oklahoma and Texas, and it's that
Speaker 2: same type mindset and those same type environments, you know,
Speaker 2: where people are living in the wild, so to speak,
Speaker 2: and the behavior is just different. Whenever bigfoot crosses paths
Speaker 2: with humans in those type areas, the reaction can be
Speaker 2: extremely different. And oh yeah, I think that usually dictates
Speaker 2: the outcome of the interaction is the person and their
Speaker 2: behavior and their response.
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree. And if there's been talk about
Speaker 1: big guys possibly or like paralleling our behavior if we're
Speaker 1: nervous and we're really uptight and upset or aggressive, uh,
Speaker 1: if they mirror that, that's not what I want. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So my philosophy in all of this has simply been, Okay,
Speaker 1: I want to be curious because I want them to command.
Speaker 1: I want to be fun. I'd like I'm happy, I
Speaker 1: would like you know, that's one of the things Shane
Speaker 1: and I talked about. And I'm like, okay, so how
Speaker 1: did you choose me? And he goes, well, I said,
Speaker 1: did you? I guess? Thank you? He said, you seem
Speaker 1: to be somebody who was respectful general just had the
Speaker 1: kind of demeanor that I'm looking for, because if we're
Speaker 1: we don't utilize that demeanor, then maybe we're pushing buttons
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be pushing. These are my words, not change.
Speaker 1: But it's just that that's just validated what I already felt.
Speaker 1: I knew, and it's always worked for me. Did I
Speaker 1: have rocks? Do it mean while I was visiting? Yes?
Speaker 1: Was I frightened? Not at all totally appreciative. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like quite else, do something else, have fun. I
Speaker 1: was in Georgia in twenty twenty. I went down to
Speaker 1: see Keith Burden and some of these guys, and they
Speaker 1: had numerous people there in the past, and they did
Speaker 1: some successes and they had interactions with a very large
Speaker 1: meal and so I was really looking forward to this.
Speaker 1: The twenty twenty was a big year for me. Had
Speaker 1: I had activity in Arkansas. I'm back in Missouri with
Speaker 1: Shane and Brandy, and so I drived down there on
Speaker 1: a whim and the group kind of disabanded quickly, just
Speaker 1: there two days and gone. So I stayed nextra night alone.
Speaker 1: In that particular night, I just literally talked to the
Speaker 1: boys and I said, Okay, I believe you're here. I
Speaker 1: have my cooler out here. If you want some, it's
Speaker 1: all yours. And I said, well, do me a favor,
Speaker 1: just let me know you're here somewhere in this That
Speaker 1: would be fun. And at two o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 1: I got the biggest wham on my U made the
Speaker 1: vehicle rock. And I'm happy because now maybe I'll get
Speaker 1: a chance to have one looking at which on one hand,
Speaker 1: I dread, and on the other I wanted this so bad,
Speaker 1: and so I'm just laying there looking at the windows
Speaker 1: for the next two hours nothing, So I just go
Speaker 1: to sleep. That's it. And I was thinking about just
Speaker 1: laying out in the open, but I didn't primarily because
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, we got a cougar sighting on red
Speaker 1: Feet from campsite the night before, so I didn't do that.
Speaker 1: There's been a number of times where I could have
Speaker 1: should have looked, and just kind of I was back
Speaker 1: in Tennessee on that trip that I told you about
Speaker 1: with the rock in the cave, and we were around
Speaker 1: a pond and I was listening to the cricket frogs ago,
Speaker 1: which are in dangerous species in Wisconsin but very prevalent
Speaker 1: farther south to go, and I'm enjoying that, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, in the gully, I'm not too far
Speaker 1: from stick snaps and I am talking like gunshot. All
Speaker 1: of us had a hair on our arms standing up,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't get myself to take twenty steps to
Speaker 1: go look down the gully. So I'm very embarrassed over that,
Speaker 1: and I shouldn't be telling it publicly, but hey, that's
Speaker 1: the way it is. So I think it happens with
Speaker 1: a lot of people in certain situations. I've had private conversations.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: I've had people tell me, you know, they did get
Speaker 1: a face in their window and it just leap, you know.
Speaker 1: I had a biologist teacher with a PhD at one
Speaker 1: of the universities I taught at, and I confessed you
Speaker 1: as watching. She said, oh good, I'm like, why, what's
Speaker 1: up with your Well, I'm from Colorado. When I was
Speaker 1: a little girl, i'd have faces in my window and
Speaker 1: there was a giant path from my house that led
Speaker 1: right to the river. None of us could figure out
Speaker 1: why that path was there, and my parents did not
Speaker 1: bullieve had faces in the window. And I think there's
Speaker 1: a ton of people out there in that situation. Who
Speaker 1: do you tell? You know? So I'm trying to think
Speaker 1: of another one for oh okay, I did have a visual. Finally,
Speaker 1: I was asked talking Alabama last year. This year, it's
Speaker 1: already almost twenty six it's just unbelievably fast this year.
Speaker 1: But it was June sixth that I get in the presentation.
Speaker 1: Then I called Rick Rellis, who's a good friend of mine.
Speaker 1: In the affer because he deals with a lot of
Speaker 1: people and he was based in Wisconsin. Listen North Carolina now.
Speaker 1: But anyway, he said he I had earlier spoke to
Speaker 1: the buffero on one of their expeditions, and they asked
Speaker 1: me to come in and talk. And that's why I
Speaker 1: finally got shake Hane's and Brick. And he told me
Speaker 1: about a fellow in Tennessee, and I wanted to follow
Speaker 1: up on that, and so I ended up visiting a
Speaker 1: fellow in Tennessee. And one of the most interesting things
Speaker 1: about that I had vocalizations and a couple of visuals.
Speaker 1: There was a fella had his photography equipment there one day.
Speaker 1: It was there a long time, and he took it down,
Speaker 1: went back to the house, and he came back down
Speaker 1: the hill later on next day and here is a
Speaker 1: structure emulates his tripod with a camera that they had
Speaker 1: built in place of it. So that's interesting. From that day,
Speaker 1: I ended up staying alone the interstate in Kentucky. I
Speaker 1: was gonna stop and see friends around Cincinnati, but I
Speaker 1: didn't give their heads up, so I didn't. So I
Speaker 1: went to visit my friends up in Northern Indiana and
Speaker 1: I hung out with them he had some other daughter team,
Speaker 1: and I'd had experiences there before Sin Footprints, I got
Speaker 1: vocalizations and since seen structures, and I don't know what
Speaker 1: to think about structures, but after working with Shane, I
Speaker 1: feel more comfortable with them. But I'm very, very suspicious
Speaker 1: of most of them. But obviously some of them can't
Speaker 1: be done by people without equipment. If there's no equipment
Speaker 1: marks or place to get equipment in, then we're left
Speaker 1: or whatever it is that we're left with. So I'm
Speaker 1: hanging out with her and we're gonna go visit her
Speaker 1: daughter soon. And the husband leaves after a wonderful supper,
Speaker 1: and we're reminiscing and catching up, and it's about seven
Speaker 1: point thirty seven when I noticed through the there's blinds
Speaker 1: in the window, and the sun's starting to go down,
Speaker 1: and the husband walks by fast, and he walks by
Speaker 1: and he's heading toward the door. So as I'm looking
Speaker 1: at that, it'd be like a cartoon where you've got
Speaker 1: the cloud of information that the person or the subject says,
Speaker 1: mine would have been filled with this question marks, question marks,
Speaker 1: question marks as to what in the heck am I seeing?
Speaker 1: And then the husband does walk in a minute thirty
Speaker 1: eight seconds after because I timed it, and he comes
Speaker 1: into the green shirt and I promptly asked him what's
Speaker 1: going on? Who is out there? And he goes, there's
Speaker 1: anybody out there? There's nobody here. I'm like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: and I told him I just saw a figure and
Speaker 1: I thought it was you, but then I realized it wasn't.
Speaker 1: He goes, okay, but he didn't believe me. Now there's
Speaker 1: nobody there. So I looked over at her and I said,
Speaker 1: you saw the look on my face and she goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know he saw one. I like, you think so,
Speaker 1: and she goes, I'm sure you did. I'm like okay,
Speaker 1: And I asked her if she'd go over and walked
Speaker 1: the path so I could look out the window to
Speaker 1: see she's five one couldn't see her. Next thing, I
Speaker 1: go out, she sits in the chair. She can barely
Speaker 1: see the top of my cap. I walk over and
Speaker 1: out turns out there's a tree with the flowers in it,
Speaker 1: which I presume is a flowering dog with but I'm
Speaker 1: going to get that verified eventually. As I walk over
Speaker 1: to it, I can see that these flowers are at
Speaker 1: least seven feet off the ground. And what's interesting is
Speaker 1: the integument, the increments of that blind. I was looking
Speaker 1: out the window at or in. There were ten segments,
Speaker 1: and the flowers were in the second segment. This figure
Speaker 1: was in the fourth segment. So that puts this figure
Speaker 1: perhaps eight feet approximately. First I thought it was seven,
Speaker 1: but once I realized the light of the flowers, I
Speaker 1: upped it. And then as far as the look a
Speaker 1: winky look, short hair, reddish brown uniform, I didn't see
Speaker 1: any variation in here, long hair, No, sure, I didn't see.
Speaker 1: Part of my vision was obscured by the blinds, you know,
Speaker 1: the blind across the window. But to see this figure
Speaker 1: go by, it was a gliding motion that leaves you going.
Speaker 1: You know, that doesn't even look real. That's strange. And
Speaker 1: as it did this, it was one, two, three gone.
Speaker 1: And so on one hand, I'm really happy if that's
Speaker 1: what that was, I presume. So given the secondary evidence
Speaker 1: we have from that site, we'll get small footprints over
Speaker 1: by the garden with a sister or daughter, and then
Speaker 1: she'll hear vocalizations coming out of the ravines, and then
Speaker 1: as you cruise the area over time, there are numerous
Speaker 1: there are numerous structures, and I saw amount of walnuts
Speaker 1: over one hundred pounds, which may or may not have
Speaker 1: anything to do with it, given the you know, collection
Speaker 1: capabilities of squirrels and chipmunks and et cetera. Were people
Speaker 1: for that matter, But anyway, it was an interesting experience
Speaker 1: and I just thought.
Speaker 4: Was it backlit by the sun?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And not a roundhead appointed head, but not you know,
Speaker 1: not these big dome things. I let me grab the
Speaker 1: report numbers when Scott Taylor out of Washington, he has
Speaker 1: a for it is it's support number forty two for
Speaker 1: four eight, And I'd be glad to send you a
Speaker 1: number of these support numbers that I worked off of Teresa's,
Speaker 1: for example, from Upper Michigan where the big males put
Speaker 1: its hand on her and start at her son forty
Speaker 1: two or four forty eight. A driver along the road
Speaker 1: was just driving in Washington and it was Gray Harbor County,
Speaker 1: I believe, and deer ring out front of him and
Speaker 1: behind it a big name all of eight feet, and
Speaker 1: the deer got away. The man went to the side
Speaker 1: of the road. In the meantime, the driver, amazed, stopped,
Speaker 1: slowed down, and he made a gesture either waved to
Speaker 1: it or something, and the individual stopped, turned and faced him.
Speaker 1: It was back lit, and it went she ah, and
Speaker 1: then it made gestations with uh. It made uh, you know,
Speaker 1: hand signals in the sense of pushing him away, and
Speaker 1: that was interesting. But one of the physical the guy
Speaker 1: drew what it looked like to him. And I've talked
Speaker 1: to Scott about this. Eventually, Scott's gonna let me talk
Speaker 1: to the talk to this fellow. But anyway, he uh,
Speaker 1: he was backlit and he had a round skull, but
Speaker 1: he had a dummed head. Well it was the hair
Speaker 1: formation on its dead. So that leads me to wonder,
Speaker 1: how many of these really just have a hairstyle that
Speaker 1: makes them look like they have a doomed head. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's that's a question. Some of these domed heads
Speaker 1: are bolt so so you've got that aspect too. So
Speaker 1: we know that there's some differentiation in some of the phenotypes.
Speaker 1: But knowing our phenotype with our small dwarfs, you know
Speaker 1: in the congo or pigmy tribes, and then we have
Speaker 1: all the variation with all the different continents, and we've
Speaker 1: got you know, Australians being having Native Australians having dinnisuban
Speaker 1: in them apparently, and so me, I'm Norse, so I've
Speaker 1: got presumably the innerthal of me. I haven't done anything DNA,
Speaker 1: And it's just amazing variation we share with our professional athletes. Ah,
Speaker 1: what is the extreme variation of them? I think we're
Speaker 1: still finding out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, you know, I go back and forth.
Speaker 2: I would say in the latter years, I've definitely been
Speaker 2: on the side of, you know, the question what are they? Yeah,
Speaker 2: it to me points more towards some type of person
Speaker 2: definitely not the same as us. But I've definitely gone farther.
Speaker 2: My needle's gone farther away from the just a large,
Speaker 2: you know, undiscovered primate.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2: But then I think about you know, okay, well, like
Speaker 2: the tree twists, and you know, even without the structures,
Speaker 2: if you look at some of the examples of you know,
Speaker 2: observations people have made of these things strength. Even if
Speaker 2: you take a human and make them eight feet tall,
Speaker 2: they're not going to have that type of strength. Our
Speaker 2: muscles and bone structure just aren't capable of doing some
Speaker 2: of these things. So I I mean, I know you're
Speaker 2: at a position in your journey on this where us
Speaker 2: old dogs. Man, It's still confusing as it was day one.
Speaker 1: It's almost like I know less now than I did
Speaker 1: when when I was in my robust.
Speaker 4: Twenty years you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was a little bit too irrogant in
Speaker 1: my forties, and I wrote people the wrong way because
Speaker 1: I was so smart, or so I thought, and I
Speaker 1: and I and all these things that people would claim
Speaker 1: that they could do with all these superpowers. This you know,
Speaker 1: para paranormal if you like, or science that hasn't caught
Speaker 1: up to them or whatever. It just becomes intriguing, especially
Speaker 1: in a little bit that dabbles with you and you
Speaker 1: experience some of it yourself.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And in my case, I MA have I don't have
Speaker 1: an explanation on the bird out gift, you know. I
Speaker 1: do understand that gorillas and orangutans and no medicinal plants.
Speaker 1: So I think there's a baseline there. I think that
Speaker 1: we are in our infancy studying and understanding what gorillas
Speaker 1: and the other great apes are capable. I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of discoveries and mysteries coming up on that.
Speaker 1: I think I just noticed today I was kind of
Speaker 1: reviewing a few things and I noticed a zookeeper was
Speaker 1: replying to somebody who asked a question about a intelligence,
Speaker 1: and the zookeeper said, well, if you give a gorilla
Speaker 1: in captivity a screwdriver, he will play with it kind
Speaker 1: of forget it. If you give it to a chimpanzee
Speaker 1: and he'll probably eventually end up stabbing another chimpanzee with it.
Speaker 1: But if you give it to an rangitang, you'll probably
Speaker 1: hide it and then try to take a stage apart
Speaker 1: with it. I thought that was an interesting comparison, and
Speaker 1: obviously there's an individual variation among all three groups. But uh,
Speaker 1: what wonderful position we're in with the capability of communication
Speaker 1: we have with all of our technology. Of course Randy
Speaker 1: with his night drones, and it's many other people with
Speaker 1: high class equipment, but we're still not getting it done.
Speaker 2: I mean, I try to tell myself, we just haven't
Speaker 2: had access to it for long enough yet. And like
Speaker 2: you were talking about, it has to be in the
Speaker 2: hands of the right people in the right situation, and
Speaker 2: then just a lot of luck because you can't be
Speaker 2: there twenty four to seven, you know, doing it yourself.
Speaker 2: You do have to rely on other people and life happens,
Speaker 2: and you have to go home or you have to
Speaker 2: go to work, exactly, you know, So I understand, I
Speaker 2: understand the chase.
Speaker 1: One drugs clutch and the other in the other. The
Speaker 1: other vehicle isn't licensed yet, so I got two sitting
Speaker 1: waiting for me, and then I've got an old bomb
Speaker 1: that I'm driving around with and oh man, exactly. Another
Speaker 1: another point too. Now, if we could sit in the
Speaker 1: forest with a high iso a fin speed is what
Speaker 1: used to be called the asa asa uh, you could
Speaker 1: actually take photographs that would lighten up the situation. And
Speaker 1: as so many describe, if you've got one sitting quiet,
Speaker 1: we're staring at you. And so many of these have
Speaker 1: been misinterpreted as stumps turned out to be real, and
Speaker 1: of course, unfortunately it works the other way way too much,
Speaker 1: where it's a stump but oh no, it's got to
Speaker 1: be a Scotch, but it's a stump. So anyway, you've
Speaker 1: got your high resolution camera over the telephoto on a
Speaker 1: tripod or on a rock or on a tree limb,
Speaker 1: and you're able to take super dynamic photographs. In time,
Speaker 1: somebody's going to be able to do that. But it's
Speaker 1: like putting the proper photographers in the proper situation at
Speaker 1: the proper time seems to be the formula, and that's
Speaker 1: not happening much. And if it is, we're certainly not
Speaker 1: senior photographs. That's why the Jeff Yellick photograph, to me,
Speaker 1: is one of the prize pieces of example of that
Speaker 1: so far.
Speaker 2: I don't think enough people know about that photograph.
Speaker 1: I think you're right.
Speaker 4: I think I agree with you. I think it's one.
Speaker 2: Of the the absolute best photographs of these things that
Speaker 2: we have, especially since I mean at the time it
Speaker 2: was probably more accessible to like really understand the timeline
Speaker 2: of events and what was going on and everything, because
Speaker 2: I know they had it the Yellis had it posted
Speaker 2: for a while, but you also had the comparison photos
Speaker 2: of the exact same position showing that, yeah, it's not
Speaker 2: standing there anymore.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: These people were very much and still are respected in
Speaker 2: the bigfoot world, you know, in integrity wise, but it's
Speaker 2: it just doesn't get a lot of publicity for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: M agreed, Well, I try to mention it every time
Speaker 1: I go on. I try to mention Sibylla Herwin dot com.
Speaker 1: People should check her out because her artwork is just
Speaker 1: incredibly amazing. I heard you refer to my friend Damage
Speaker 1: Losser saving foods the other day and when you're you know,
Speaker 1: in your description of your experience. So I was able
Speaker 1: to look that up actually yesterday and just enjoyed the image.
Speaker 1: Yeah you got to see so. But yeah, we have
Speaker 1: so much capability, and now we're at a stage where
Speaker 1: it's not pre internet. Now we can talk to somebody
Speaker 1: Alaska in five minutes or somebody is somewhere around the world.
Speaker 1: So really, if we're smart, it seems like we combine
Speaker 1: its and wisely plan a few things to learn more.
Speaker 1: And I'm in a situation where I'd mentioned I had
Speaker 1: some unusual things happen. I'll give you the last weird
Speaker 1: thing that happened. And I have relatives fortunately the DevD experiences,
Speaker 1: so my family knows. So I feel comfortable about that
Speaker 1: because before it's like, are you just the nut? You know?
Speaker 1: In this case, I was out with a group in
Speaker 1: Wisconsin and we had elk were introduced into this area,
Speaker 1: so we were greeted with an elk crossing the road
Speaker 1: before we got there. That first night we got there,
Speaker 1: we did a lot of socializing and relaxing and we
Speaker 1: meet comfortable, but we get vocalisitions from the campsite there.
Speaker 1: And this is interesting in the sense that when things
Speaker 1: calmed down, we had people go north and a half
Speaker 1: miles away. I was told later at times ten o'clock.
Speaker 1: The second night, I had something to me incredible happened.
Speaker 1: But the first night, everybody was up in late, and
Speaker 1: we wound up going to bed really late. And I
Speaker 1: got up at five o'clock and warned the whiz and
Speaker 1: I opened the car door, and as my feet hit
Speaker 1: the ground, I heard people talking. And that was a
Speaker 1: little unusual because I was assumed everybody sleeping, But you
Speaker 1: don't know that behind it I heard, And I don't
Speaker 1: have any explanation for what that was at all. I
Speaker 1: do believe we've got somebody who recorded that, but we
Speaker 1: were trying to find the exact recording. So far we haven't.
Speaker 1: The next night, people had love for these trips north
Speaker 1: fifteen miles or let's see north of us two point
Speaker 1: five miles away. Fifteen total people. We ended up with
Speaker 1: four of us in camp. One guy went to sleep
Speaker 1: in the camp. Three others were with me. Good friends,
Speaker 1: wonderful friends. They sided. I had to go to the
Speaker 1: edge of the meadow and sit at the edge of
Speaker 1: the trees to listen. And I liketed to stay at
Speaker 1: the campfire alone because I'm hoping. And off they went.
Speaker 1: And as they left, I thought to myself, I shouldn't
Speaker 1: even say this, I should say that at all, but true,
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, Okay, this is perfect. I am
Speaker 1: all alone. If you're here, would you let me know, Matt,
Speaker 1: I'm that kid. A less thans a minute to two minutes.
Speaker 1: Somewhere in that timeframe, I got the most perfect across
Speaker 1: the meadow a tenth of a mile away at the
Speaker 1: woods life at the woodline. Now the other people were itself,
Speaker 1: and we verified your location, and I'd mentioned the locations
Speaker 1: of the other place, and I was filled to us.
Speaker 1: It's happiness that I wasn't smart enough to come back with, Wow,
Speaker 1: that was great. Could you do it again? So coincidence confirmation?
Speaker 1: I have no idea, but all I can tell you
Speaker 1: is that was the second hoop I've ever heard anywhere.
Speaker 1: And I've listened to hundreds of hoops on the air,
Speaker 1: on you know, recordings, but that was the best, fun
Speaker 1: it's coolest hoop I ever heard. So I'll just put
Speaker 1: an exclamation mark on that with a big question mark,
Speaker 1: and then I'm going to tell you that two days
Speaker 1: after Christmas in twenty three, I was with a dear
Speaker 1: friend and we were hanging out. We'd walked eight miles
Speaker 1: that day. We got wood knocks, We found a skull
Speaker 1: that she moves around a lot. She'll put it up
Speaker 1: on the extended branch over a tussock in a swamp,
Speaker 1: and then she'll come back and they'll be down in
Speaker 1: the swamp, her down on the t and there's like
Speaker 1: at least four feet between, you know, the two. And
Speaker 1: she'll do this regularly through the week, and so something
Speaker 1: is playing with her. We've got feathers, we've got a
Speaker 1: couple of branches apparently gifted to us, supposedly. And then
Speaker 1: that night I came out of the house and there
Speaker 1: were cala calling. There's no caleer, so that was really interesting.
Speaker 1: From there, we took a walk and it's temperature wise,
Speaker 1: it is I believe twenty three decrease and fifteen mile
Speaker 1: in our winds. As we get toward the pine Woods
Speaker 1: twenty a quarter a mile and a half mile away,
Speaker 1: she says, something just pushed me I'm like, okay, you
Speaker 1: are right. Yeah. And as soon as that happened, I
Speaker 1: walked up on her and I started smelling flowers and
Speaker 1: I'm surprised, and I look over at her and I go,
Speaker 1: do you smell anything right now? She smiles of me
Speaker 1: and she goes, yeah, smell flowers just like you do. Did,
Speaker 1: And I'm like okay, And I thought this is odd.
Speaker 1: So I pull out digital recorder one, start talking into it.
Speaker 1: It's done. Pull out digital two. It's done. Almost immediately
Speaker 1: we get wood knocks, and then she goes look at
Speaker 1: that and there's a bright blue ball of light zipping
Speaker 1: through the woods first time, only time for me or
Speaker 1: or whatever, no idea, And we didn't have any more
Speaker 1: incidents there for that night. But that really resonated with me.
Speaker 1: Is this sounds a lot like some of the pre
Speaker 1: internet stuff I had read in Green's book, specifically with
Speaker 1: the batteries. I've talked to other people privately, they as
Speaker 1: well have experiences. Maney won't talk about it. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we got a different flavor going on in that situation.
Speaker 4: Everybody's heard this rumor.
Speaker 2: It's not you know, privileged information or anything at this
Speaker 2: point point, but the period of time that you were
Speaker 2: handling reports for the BFRO, there are rumors that they
Speaker 2: would suppress those type of reports. Were you ever told
Speaker 2: not to report something or to ignore certain types of
Speaker 2: reports or witness reports not getting publicly released because of
Speaker 2: what they contained.
Speaker 1: We had various conversations on it. I had one report
Speaker 1: that was suppressed from Michigan of a big female that
Speaker 1: was said to have walked real close to a car
Speaker 1: with the observer, and for whatever reason, the curators didn't
Speaker 1: believe that report. That was my freshman year, first year
Speaker 1: of doing it. After that, all I can tell you
Speaker 1: is that there's one report in particular out of Ohio
Speaker 1: that when I was getting ready to leave and left,
Speaker 1: I uh, and I left on her what I would
Speaker 1: call it controversial a situation and something I wasn't comfortable
Speaker 1: sharing with everybody. So I just kind of like a
Speaker 1: bowed out and it was like, oh, and that was fine,
Speaker 1: because that was my plan. Anyway. What happened was there
Speaker 1: was a man who was you know, who described his
Speaker 1: situation and about how he had a communication with a
Speaker 1: female when he was like five years old and she
Speaker 1: was assuring him that he was okay. That particular report
Speaker 1: somehow made it into the public edition of reports. Now,
Speaker 1: whether that was edited or adjusted, I don't know, but
Speaker 1: I know it's taken a long time for him to
Speaker 1: come to the service publicly with references to orbes right,
Speaker 1: and that is now apparently okay to discuss.
Speaker 4: Apparently it could be, it could be.
Speaker 1: I don't remember that. I know it's fairly recently, whatever
Speaker 1: whenever the timeframe was. And I can tell you that
Speaker 1: if you talk to fifty investigators from the organization, you'll
Speaker 1: get the wide range of beliefs from one level to another.
Speaker 1: I've got a good friend and she has had some
Speaker 1: mental experiences that she claims with them, and I believe
Speaker 1: her simply because I know her very well. Do I
Speaker 1: have an explanation? No? Do I have other experiences, yes
Speaker 1: I do. Have I been able to personally get a message?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Do I have close friends that I fully believe Yes?
Speaker 1: Do I have any explanation for this? Nope? But I
Speaker 1: think we're at ground's base investigating stage over mental telepathy.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that it's totally unacceptable to a significant number
Speaker 1: of people, But I just know a little bit about science,
Speaker 1: and I think that's something we can't simply dismiss I
Speaker 1: know hypnotherapy and hypnosis was not something fully believed when
Speaker 1: I was in high school in the seventies, so there's
Speaker 1: mental epathy. Something along those lines could be. I have
Speaker 1: no clue, but there's a lot of work to do.
Speaker 1: So it's a great mystery. And you know, there's no
Speaker 1: reason to stop when you've got some successes because I
Speaker 1: think the human nature is we want more.
Speaker 2: Dan, I've enjoyed it, man, thanks for joining me and
Speaker 2: coming on, and seriously, doors always open. I want to
Speaker 2: have you back. I want to talk more, dive deeper
Speaker 2: into the subject. But yeah, man, I've really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: Oh you're sound like a brother to me, and I'm
Speaker 1: more than glad to include you in a lot of
Speaker 1: my investigations and gets your take and share a lot,
Speaker 1: so I would be honored to do that.
Speaker 4: I appreciate it. Man.
Speaker 2: If you've had an encounter with something you can explain
Speaker 2: and you'd like to share that story on the podcast,
Speaker 2: email me at Bigfoot Crossroads atjemail dot com. Check out
Speaker 2: the website Bigfootcrossroads dot com. You can find links to
Speaker 2: social media, past episodes, merchandise, everything you need all in
Speaker 2: one place, and until next time, remember there's something in
Speaker 2: the woods.