1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,399 Speaker 1: Arrow dot net. It's more than just a podcast, It's 2 00:00:03,439 --> 00:00:06,719 a podcast network. One of the featured of the twenty 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,240 is ct CS What does it like to work in 4 00:00:11,279 --> 00:00:16,359 a grocery store? The authentic steps, experiences, the robbers, the steelers, 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,000 those that you think you've got a relationship with, and 6 00:00:19,039 --> 00:00:23,320 all of a sudden you have been grocery stored CTCs 7 00:00:23,359 --> 00:00:26,480 on ero dot net, A r r oe dot net. 8 00:00:26,839 --> 00:00:28,160 Enjoy your exploration. 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,119 Speaker 2: Hi, I'm professor Gil rebook your arrow. I guess that. 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 3: Would be me Gil. 11 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: How are you doing, sir, mister professor? 12 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 2: Now you can call me Gil. I'm sorry that no. 13 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:41,719 Speaker 1: I like that because there were Doctor Ronald Mack from 14 00:00:41,719 --> 00:00:43,679 Wake Forest University used to tell me all the time. 15 00:00:43,719 --> 00:00:46,079 He says, you know, I worked really hard to be 16 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,200 this doctor. That's how I want you to address me. 17 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,520 So it's like, so, Professor, Yes, you have busted some 18 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,159 serious tale and you've got set in here with crude creatures. 19 00:00:54,159 --> 00:00:57,679 That opens up my soul like it's never been before. 20 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,119 I cannot wait to share a conversation with you. 21 00:01:01,159 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: Great, I'm glad to hear. 22 00:01:03,119 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: So explain to me what we're doing, because there's gonna 23 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,760 be a lot of listeners that are stepping into this 24 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,760 going okay, what's up and so? And I think, well, 25 00:01:10,799 --> 00:01:13,200 Gill's the one that knows okay. 26 00:01:13,439 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: So this is a new cultural history. And this book 27 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:21,000 kind of reverses a lot of the truisms about, for example, 28 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,159 Black Jewish relationship, and it gives it shines a really 29 00:01:25,239 --> 00:01:30,680 critical light a Yiddish culture, a language which unfortunately today 30 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,400 is hardly spoken only by outrah Orthodox Jews, but it 31 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,799 was spoken by millions of people in the early twentieth century. 32 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:44,120 And my book covers how that culture described black women 33 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:48,280 and men. And it starts off with East Europe before 34 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,680 even you know, people came to America, before you know, 35 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,879 Jewish immigrants came to America where you virtually had no 36 00:01:54,879 --> 00:01:58,840 no black population. So how do you imagine blackness? How 37 00:01:58,879 --> 00:02:01,400 do you imagine black women and men? And I show 38 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,719 many examples of you know, American culture, European culture being 39 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:10,280 absorbed and how you think you already know something about 40 00:02:10,319 --> 00:02:14,280 black people even before you saw one. So that's the beginning. 41 00:02:14,439 --> 00:02:16,840 And then of course when they come to America, when 42 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:21,159 those Jewish immigrants make their way to America. Now they're here, 43 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:26,759 and this society has very well established ways of behaving 44 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:31,120 toward African Americans, of describing them, and Yiddish culture kind 45 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,759 of imports that. It internalizes that, and it shows and 46 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,199 I show in literature, in the press, in the theater, 47 00:02:38,759 --> 00:02:42,080 how black women and men work portrayed. And it's not 48 00:02:42,319 --> 00:02:46,879 always and very often, I'm afraid to say, it's not 49 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,080 a very happy story. 50 00:02:48,319 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. 51 00:02:49,159 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: One of the things that I've always learned, and this 52 00:02:51,879 --> 00:02:54,120 is my lack, I guess of education, but at least 53 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,360 you're opening up my eyes. Is I always thought that 54 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,280 relationship was open and filled with love, because even doctor 55 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,599 Ronald Mack which told me, he says, look, he says, 56 00:03:02,719 --> 00:03:06,400 the cemetery is in the middle of a African American 57 00:03:07,199 --> 00:03:10,639 an area up town, and I thought, that's so loving 58 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,800 to give up that land to the Jewish as well 59 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,039 as the Yiddish families. And I'm always thought there's some 60 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:18,759 true love there. Am I wrong, Gill? 61 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,159 Speaker 2: No, not wrong at all. But the thing is, people 62 00:03:22,199 --> 00:03:24,719 take the nineteen fifties and the nineteen sixties that were 63 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,319 kind of the heyday heyday of a Black Jewish cooperation. 64 00:03:28,759 --> 00:03:31,960 Martin Luther King and Reabbi Abram Joshua Heshul You know, 65 00:03:32,039 --> 00:03:36,719 Martin together from Selma, you know, or to Selma in Alabama. 66 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,840 That was a very particular moment, and that came about later. 67 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,319 But the thing is, you cannot project back, You cannot 68 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,280 project fifty seventy one hundred years earlier and assume that 69 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,680 those things were there. And that's the thing. You already 70 00:03:51,719 --> 00:03:56,080 had like precursors of that because unlike let's say regular 71 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,879 or let's say most white Americans, you can see already 72 00:04:00,039 --> 00:04:03,360 Yiddish culture a lot of concern about African Americans. But 73 00:04:03,439 --> 00:04:06,280 there's a lot of ambivalence. There's a lot of ambivalence. 74 00:04:06,599 --> 00:04:08,919 And that's the thing that this book shows. How do 75 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,360 you negotiate those things? How do you negotiate the fact 76 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,680 that you are against lynching, you're against Jim Crow laws, 77 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,600 you're against those things, but you still believe that African 78 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,079 Americans are inferior or that they you know, they have 79 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,199 to work so hard. You know, maybe in one hundred 80 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,360 years they'll be like white people, like white folks, so 81 00:04:27,519 --> 00:04:31,079 and those things are you know, that negotiation, I think 82 00:04:31,199 --> 00:04:34,920 is so interesting, especially when you're talking about immigrants who 83 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:39,920 don't consume their culture in English necessarily, although English American 84 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,519 culture has so much influence over that. So I think 85 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,199 that that process of ambivalence from it, it's fascinating. 86 00:04:47,639 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 3: Please do not move. We've got more with Professor Gil 87 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:56,800 Ryback coming up next the name of his book, Crude Creatures. 88 00:04:56,959 --> 00:05:00,279 We are back with Professor Gill Ryback. I think that 89 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,319 this book, The Crude Creatures opens up the conversation between 90 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,120 college students today as well as the elders of today, 91 00:05:08,199 --> 00:05:11,920 because the elders have lived it, the college students want 92 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,959 to learn it. And here comes professor gil with a 93 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,720 book that says, I think we need to have a conversation. 94 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, And I hope it will start such 95 00:05:21,079 --> 00:05:25,000 a conversation because right now, you know, PPS has PPS 96 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,639 has the great documentary four parts, I believe, with Henry 97 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,040 Louis Gates, Junior Blacks and Jews. It shows part of 98 00:05:32,079 --> 00:05:35,120 the it shows actually it's a very good, well made, 99 00:05:35,439 --> 00:05:38,759 well made show. But the thing is those things that 100 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:43,279 I show, the cartoons, the theater shows, the jokes, all 101 00:05:43,319 --> 00:05:46,279 of that. You know, that does not come across because 102 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,480 nobody knew about those materials. I had to of course 103 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,240 translate them sit in archives. Took me a few years, 104 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:57,759 in three continents, but I translated those things, and I'm 105 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,959 bringing i think, a fresh look and a very important 106 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,959 correction to what people thought that they knew about Black 107 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,879 Jewish relations or you know what, any immigrant group that 108 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,680 comes to America, and you can say that about many 109 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,480 other immigrant groups that lived in areas that did not 110 00:06:14,639 --> 00:06:18,519 have black population, but they already imagined them before coming 111 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,120 to America from you know, a mashup of many sources, 112 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,079 and then when if they come up to America, you 113 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,800 have new dynamics. So hopefully, as you said, this conversation, 114 00:06:28,079 --> 00:06:30,600 this book will will help to open up this conversation. 115 00:06:30,759 --> 00:06:33,199 Speaker 1: So, professor, when you travel to three different continents, were 116 00:06:33,199 --> 00:06:35,560 you fascinated by the fact that it's three different parts 117 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,240 of the world and yet there's so much in common. 118 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:39,959 Why aren't we talking about this? 119 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: That's a great question. That's a great question. That's what 120 00:06:43,519 --> 00:06:46,439 you know. In my first chapter introduction, the first chapter, 121 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:51,560 I actually discussed that that what I have about I'm 122 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,920 you know, this book is about Jewish immigrants or you know, 123 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,920 Yidi speaking Jewish. I could have written, I mean people 124 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,240 have read or are starting to write about Korean immigrants 125 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,240 or Chinese immigrants who come from societies that don't have 126 00:07:03,319 --> 00:07:07,839 a black population, but they already pre immigration. They start 127 00:07:07,879 --> 00:07:12,279 imagining them either via literature later on, of course, radio, TV, Internet, 128 00:07:12,399 --> 00:07:15,120 of course, but that's in later years. My book ends 129 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,680 in the nineteen thirties. But those insights you can say 130 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:23,519 about tons many of the immigrant groups who came to America. 131 00:07:23,759 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: I'm just so fascinated by this because because I'm a 132 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,600 firm believer that if we do not study our history, 133 00:07:30,639 --> 00:07:33,720 and I mean all corners of history, then we will 134 00:07:33,759 --> 00:07:36,680 never understand who we are and where we are today. 135 00:07:36,879 --> 00:07:38,959 We need things like this, professor, and I think that's 136 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,439 what you feel in your heart by setting this book free. 137 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, and keep in mind, look, I'm Jewish myself. 138 00:07:46,079 --> 00:07:48,439 I don't want to be accused of being, you know, 139 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,480 self ating Jew or whatever, or that I'm a race 140 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,000 trader or whatever people would like to call it. But 141 00:07:54,079 --> 00:07:56,040 I think that that kind of as you said, it's 142 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,079 a conversation and actually I show a lot of ambivalence. 143 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,800 You can see within Yiddish culture people are concerned with 144 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,360 Jim Crow laws. They're definitely condemning lynchings. They say always, 145 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,319 you know, American African Americans are number one, We're gonna 146 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,959 we're next in line. We're next in line. After they 147 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,480 finished with them, they're going to come after us. So 148 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,439 there's a lot of concern. But again there's a lot 149 00:08:18,439 --> 00:08:22,639 of ambivalence because there is the influence of the external 150 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,879 society which pervades almost every aspect of life. And I 151 00:08:27,959 --> 00:08:33,000 show that again theater, literature, press, even residential patterns, socio 152 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:38,360 economic you know, socio economic relations. I'll just give you 153 00:08:38,399 --> 00:08:41,120 an example when when young Jugim Grants comes to North 154 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:44,519 of Virginia and he comes there, Let's say it's around 155 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,159 nineteen oh four, nineteen oh five. He comes there and 156 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,480 he says, hey, how come people, you know, treat African 157 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,799 Americans like this? Like how come everything black? White? Black? White? 158 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,399 Black white? His brother tells them, you know what, you 159 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,200 have to deal with them for a few days and 160 00:08:58,279 --> 00:09:02,320 then I'm going to talk to you. Ah. So it's like, 161 00:09:02,519 --> 00:09:04,840 you know, it's like that. So they absorb a lot 162 00:09:04,879 --> 00:09:08,240 of whatever is going on around them, which I find 163 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:09,000 it fascinating. 164 00:09:09,519 --> 00:09:11,279 Speaker 1: You've got to come back to this show anytime in 165 00:09:11,279 --> 00:09:14,240 the future. There's no way that I realized this is 166 00:09:14,279 --> 00:09:16,399 Black History Month. But man, I'll tell you what, this 167 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,440 is an everyday conversation. So please make sure that you 168 00:09:20,519 --> 00:09:21,919 come back to this show, Professor. 169 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 2: I'd love to. I'd love to, Erro. It's a pleasure 170 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:26,080 of talking to you. 171 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 3: You be brilliant today. 172 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,039 Speaker 2: Okay, Professor, Okay, thank you so much. I have a 173 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,080 wonderful day. Arrow. I appreciate your time.