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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Doctor Wendywell Show on KFI AM

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<v Speaker 1>six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Okay, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>really excited to introduce my next guest because I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to start by telling you a story. I was in

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<v Speaker 1>Australia last week and I was having dinner with a

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<v Speaker 1>group of people and one of my friends recently got

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<v Speaker 1>married in September, and her husband is you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>sort of they wouldn't have met each other in real

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<v Speaker 1>life if it wasn't for the apps, because they work

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<v Speaker 1>in different industries, they lived in different part of the cities,

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<v Speaker 1>et cetera. And I said, how did you meet? And

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<v Speaker 1>she said, we met on a dating app that matches

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<v Speaker 1>you based on your musical tastes. And I thought to myself, really, like,

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<v Speaker 1>that's the foundation for their marriage, is that they liked

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<v Speaker 1>the same record. Well, I had to get her on

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<v Speaker 1>the show. Not that woman, but the founder of finally,

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<v Speaker 1>a dating app that matches people based on music compatibility.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome Rachel van Nortwig. How are you.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm doing well. Thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>So you launched vinyally about six years ago, and tell

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<v Speaker 1>me how you got the idea that matching people based

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<v Speaker 1>on taysts in music would work.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, So you know, by age six I had to

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<v Speaker 2>fallen in love with my parents' records and started collecting vinyl,

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<v Speaker 2>and by age fifteen I was hooked on live music.

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<v Speaker 2>I've now been to over six hundred shows myself, and

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<v Speaker 2>I was at one point married to somebody who was

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<v Speaker 2>a less enthusiastic plus one when it came to seeing

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<v Speaker 2>live music. And for me, you know, that's something that's

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<v Speaker 2>so important as part of my lifestyle and my identity.

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<v Speaker 2>There was men app like Vinylly, and so I set

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<v Speaker 2>out to create one.

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<v Speaker 1>So how does it work? First of all, before we

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<v Speaker 1>get into how did it works? Why do you think

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<v Speaker 1>music compatibility signals life compatibility as far as you know,

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<v Speaker 1>living together, sharing bills, raising kids, caring for each other.

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<v Speaker 1>What is the common denominator with music?

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<v Speaker 2>So of course, you know there's so much that goes

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<v Speaker 2>into a relationship, but you know, when you have a

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<v Speaker 2>common bond, and a common bond that is something that's

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<v Speaker 2>deep and tied to who you are as a person,

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<v Speaker 2>that always helps right to have that kind of foundational

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<v Speaker 2>appreciation for someone else. And so the great thing about

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<v Speaker 2>vinylly is. It's actually backed by science. So science has

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<v Speaker 2>proven that shared music in relationship in relationships actually increases dopamine,

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<v Speaker 2>it lowers the stress hormone cortisol, and it strengthens communication.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's you know a lot of reasons right that

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<v Speaker 2>you know, music can help and be helping in a relationship,

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<v Speaker 2>as well as the fact that just in today's world,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's the way that young people express themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>Daters have also said, you know, more than seventy percent

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<v Speaker 2>of them said that if they did not match music

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<v Speaker 2>with their partner, it would be a field breaker. So

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<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of reasons that music is sort of

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<v Speaker 2>the way for vioyly.

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<v Speaker 1>And certain genres of music are connected to certain cultural groups, right,

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<v Speaker 1>the difference between say, rap, classical jazz, and country. They

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<v Speaker 1>might be different people, although there are some people who

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<v Speaker 1>appreciate it all, like my husband. But you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>interesting because when people are dating, it's very common now

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<v Speaker 1>for them to like make a music list as according

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<v Speaker 1>ritual and send it to somebody a Spotify list or

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<v Speaker 1>what have you.

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<v Speaker 3>Was this kind of a takeoff on that, Yeah, So

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<v Speaker 3>you know, when I was younger, we used to make

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<v Speaker 3>mixtapes for you know, our friends or the people we

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<v Speaker 3>were dating.

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<v Speaker 2>We put such time and effort into you know, how

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<v Speaker 2>we order what it meant, even like how we you know,

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<v Speaker 2>created artwork on the outside. And so you know, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>in a way, you know, finally is sort of a

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<v Speaker 2>modern day version of that. You actually can you know,

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<v Speaker 2>create playlists on the app for people to check out

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<v Speaker 2>before they decide to push play on you, and you

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<v Speaker 2>can share music, you know, back and forth. So yes,

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<v Speaker 2>in a way, it's it's very much the same.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's interesting because I met my husband, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>four and a half years ago. We got married in August,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was doing a lot of long card drives

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<v Speaker 1>because I have a farm in Oregon that I was

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<v Speaker 1>remodeling and I do twelve hours on the freeway. And

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<v Speaker 1>he was the first one to ever send me a

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<v Speaker 1>playlist on Apple Music. And my initials are WW, so

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<v Speaker 1>my nick name is dub and so the first playlist,

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<v Speaker 1>which is called dub music, and I listened to and

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<v Speaker 1>it was love songs expressing everything he was experiencing, and

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<v Speaker 1>then it became dubbed music. The next one came, and

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<v Speaker 1>then young Dub music, stuff from my childhood that might

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<v Speaker 1>be reminiscent that we must share in common, and then

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<v Speaker 1>classical dub and then let's go disco dub and I

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<v Speaker 1>probably have twenty different until it became wedding recessional songs

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<v Speaker 1>for dub.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>So I understand this like he was expressing himself through

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<v Speaker 1>the music and also showing me that he knew me

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<v Speaker 1>and stages of life. And I happen to be I'm not.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not into music. In other words, I let the

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<v Speaker 1>AI choose my playlist.

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<v Speaker 3>I just go.

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<v Speaker 1>If I get on a staremaster, I'm embarrassed to tell

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<v Speaker 1>you this, Rachel. I get on a Staremaster, I just

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<v Speaker 1>type in the word Beyonce and I get like Beyonce music.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it starts with to the left, to the level,

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<v Speaker 1>and the next thing you know, it's all music for staremaster.

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<v Speaker 1>So he though knows music deep. And when we were

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<v Speaker 1>in Australia last week, we went to the Sydney Opera

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<v Speaker 1>House to listen to symphony and he looks at me

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<v Speaker 1>and he's like, I can't believe this chamber orc starts

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<v Speaker 1>doing Beethoven seven. They're like batting out of their league.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, I don't know what you're saying, but okay,

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<v Speaker 1>it sounds good to me. So how does vinyly work.

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<v Speaker 1>When people go online? Do they list their favorite artists?

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<v Speaker 1>How does it work?

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<v Speaker 2>Sure? So, Vinyaly users can sink their Spotify or use

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<v Speaker 2>our profile generator to sign up. We ask basic questions

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<v Speaker 2>about what they're looking for, and then on proprietary algorithm

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<v Speaker 2>produces matches. Right, so it's a pretty quick sign up.

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<v Speaker 2>You can shuffle through matches or fast forward listening to playlists,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know when you're ready to press play a match.

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<v Speaker 2>You can use our music conversation starters. And then lastly,

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<v Speaker 2>without having to leave the chat, users can actually search,

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<v Speaker 2>suggest and buy a concert ticket.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh that's great. So it's literally for music fans, but

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<v Speaker 1>also for someone who's not a music fan to really

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<v Speaker 1>get to know somebody's psyche by asking, by looking, you

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<v Speaker 1>can actually go into their Spotify and see what they're

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<v Speaker 1>listening to.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, you can see, you know, all of their

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<v Speaker 2>songs that they've been listening to, and you can actually

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<v Speaker 2>push play and listen to the music as well.

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<v Speaker 1>This is fascinating. I love it all right, Rachel. When

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<v Speaker 1>we come back, there's another subject I want to talk about,

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<v Speaker 1>which is how artificial intelligence is reshaping the online dating experience.

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<v Speaker 1>Hopefully it's reducing the swiping because my thumb is nearly

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<v Speaker 1>broken from back in the day. But let's have you

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<v Speaker 1>weigh in on that. My guest is Rachel van Nortwick,

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<v Speaker 1>founder of Vinyally. It's spelled Vias and Victor. I n

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<v Speaker 1>why l l y Vinyally like finally, finally I met

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<v Speaker 1>the one on vinyly. I love it. It's a dating

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<v Speaker 1>app that matches people based on music compatibility. All right,

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<v Speaker 1>let's talk about AI. How can AI change dating experience?

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<v Speaker 1>How start at the beginning? How can it reduce ghosting?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's a great place to start. So there's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of uses for AI, of course within dating apps,

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<v Speaker 2>but one of the most important ones is for you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the dating app developers to implement AI, uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>for you know, prevention of ghosting, of bots, of cat fishing, like,

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<v Speaker 2>there's just that there's a lot of ways that they

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<v Speaker 2>can implement you know, AI to to protect people, uh

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<v Speaker 2>from you know, people that aren't actually on the app

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<v Speaker 2>to try to meet someone. Now I'm saying that from

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<v Speaker 2>just uh, you know, that's a ghosting. That's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>built by uh, you know, a bot, not by you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not ghosting of somebody who you're just chatting with

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<v Speaker 2>and then they decide not to talk to you anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's there's ways that you know, we can be

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<v Speaker 2>responsible as developers. Then in terms of ghosting, listen, it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's tough. You know, it's tough out there when you're

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<v Speaker 2>talking to somebody and then all of a sudden, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the line just goes cold.

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<v Speaker 1>I think heart breaking, heartbreaking when someone just and I

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<v Speaker 1>always say to people, you know, if somebody doesn't have

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<v Speaker 1>the relationship skills or the communication skills to say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>it was lovely chatting with you, I don't think romance

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<v Speaker 1>is in the cards for us. But you know, good

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<v Speaker 1>luck in the future. If they don't even have that

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<v Speaker 1>basic skill to say goodbye in a polite way, then

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<v Speaker 1>you are saved from them in a relationship. Thank good

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<v Speaker 1>goodness they ghosted.

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<v Speaker 3>Because yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, so, first of all, is artificial intelligence being used

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<v Speaker 1>yet in the dating apps?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we were the first actually to uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>go out with AI in the app, and so we

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<v Speaker 2>decided to do it in a fun way we use

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<v Speaker 2>AI to let users replicate like buying drinks in real life,

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<v Speaker 2>but in the app you get to blend you know,

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<v Speaker 2>your genres that you like as well as the matches

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<v Speaker 2>genres and create like a bespoke cocktail and it's fun.

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<v Speaker 2>You can send it. It's actually like a complete recipe

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<v Speaker 2>with instructions and you can then also, you know, if

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<v Speaker 2>you went on a first date, make that in real life.

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<v Speaker 2>So we used it, you know, for for fun. But

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<v Speaker 2>there's also ways that you know, we're implementing a I

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<v Speaker 2>on that will be rolling out that other dating apps

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<v Speaker 2>used too, which is just helping, you know, helping with

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<v Speaker 2>your matches. Right, so you know, we think that we're

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<v Speaker 2>good at, you know, identifying who would be a match

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<v Speaker 2>for us based on swiping or on our app. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's going through the matches and pushing play. However, there's

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes when actually, you know, AI can be helpful and

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<v Speaker 2>provide matches to you that you may have overlooked but

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<v Speaker 2>that actually proven over a larger database would prove out

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<v Speaker 2>to be a good mesh for you.

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<v Speaker 1>So they're basically like your mother telling you this is

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<v Speaker 1>the person you should date.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess. How about like your best friend with that.

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<v Speaker 1>So basically the algorithms, you know, I sort of joke

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes that TikTok algorithm is so good that it knows

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<v Speaker 1>your soul, right, I mean, it's probably listening to our

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<v Speaker 1>conversation right now, it's listening to everything, and then it

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<v Speaker 1>provides you exactly the videos that you need to help

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<v Speaker 1>yourself at that moment. So you're saying, artificial intelligence and

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<v Speaker 1>dating apps can figure out really who you are and

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<v Speaker 1>what you need and be able to provide the right

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<v Speaker 1>people for you.

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<v Speaker 2>It can help. I think it's you know, listen, I

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<v Speaker 2>think there is still very much a human effort that

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we shouldn't try to actually you know, go

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<v Speaker 2>away from right. So it's important that you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>feel or a user feels like they have control over

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<v Speaker 2>their matches. But where it can be helpful is, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't or we can't see across you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>rest of the people on the app to understand where

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<v Speaker 2>maybe you know, a better match might be. But that's

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<v Speaker 2>how AI can can be helpful. So I think use

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<v Speaker 2>the right way. It's a great addition, but I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's still important for users to feel like they have

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<v Speaker 2>control over their actions on the app.

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<v Speaker 1>So I always say that finding a good mate is

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<v Speaker 1>partly biological, being physically attracted to somebody, having the right

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<v Speaker 1>pheromones to have good compatibility biologically, then psychologically having a

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<v Speaker 1>good attachment style to be able to form a secure attachment.

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<v Speaker 1>And then there's the social and the dating apps have

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<v Speaker 1>done the social really well. You know, the income, the

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<v Speaker 1>zip code, the geographics, you know what somebody does for

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<v Speaker 1>a living, whether they're what they eat, whether they're vegan

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<v Speaker 1>or carnivore, what their politics are. The social piece. I

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<v Speaker 1>find the dating apps has done a really good job

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<v Speaker 1>at can a I work in those other areas psychological

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<v Speaker 1>and biological.

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<v Speaker 2>I think so, I think that there are opportunities for

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<v Speaker 2>it to be implemented responsibly. I think that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>AI can tell us things about ourselves that maybe we

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<v Speaker 2>aren't actually either aware of or you know, don't lead with.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think you know, whether you're on a dating

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<v Speaker 2>app or in real life. My advice always is to

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<v Speaker 2>date intentionally. Make sure that you know you know what's

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<v Speaker 2>important to you, don't waiver. It's easy sometimes if you've

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<v Speaker 2>been on dating apps for a long time and you

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<v Speaker 2>meet someone and they don't quite say all of your characteristics,

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<v Speaker 2>but you're just so you know, you're just trying to

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<v Speaker 2>meet someone that you kind of compromise. It's not worth it.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I think, you know, AI can kind kind

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<v Speaker 2>of you know, be a north star and provide you

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<v Speaker 2>with you know, the these are the types of matches

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<v Speaker 2>you should go for based on you telling us you know,

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<v Speaker 2>this is what you want. And I would say that's

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<v Speaker 2>a great that's a great guide. But it's just something

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<v Speaker 2>for us to I'll be conscious of.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you talked about intentional dating, and I often

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<v Speaker 1>use a term rational love, meaning that if we allow

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<v Speaker 1>always our instincts. Now, some of us have great instincts.

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<v Speaker 1>We come from a healthy, happy family, We have a

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<v Speaker 1>secure attachment style. Trust our instincts, but they are another

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<v Speaker 1>you know, forty to fifty percent of the population who

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<v Speaker 1>have an anxious attachment style and avoidant attachment style, and

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<v Speaker 1>literally their attraction takes them right back to the scene

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<v Speaker 1>of the crime, the person who will actually hurt them.

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<v Speaker 1>And so we need to learn rational love, which is

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<v Speaker 1>intellectually this is what I need, and I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>make myself choose this good person instead of this you

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<v Speaker 1>know what I perceive to be a high value mate

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<v Speaker 1>who's just going to be a player and hurt me

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<v Speaker 1>in some way. And I hope that AI I can

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<v Speaker 1>start to present that to people, and I bet ya.

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<v Speaker 1>So my theory is that AI is going to get

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<v Speaker 1>so good that they'll be able to actually predict people's

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<v Speaker 1>romantic attachment style based on frequency of texts, the kind

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<v Speaker 1>of words they use in the text, how long of

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<v Speaker 1>texts they write. It's very obvious to me when I

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<v Speaker 1>see people that it's so it's so obvious their attachment style.

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<v Speaker 1>So I bet you AI is going to figure it

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<v Speaker 1>out pretty soon too, which is cool. So Rachel that

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<v Speaker 1>where do people find vinyly.

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<v Speaker 2>So vinyally is available both on iOS and android. It's

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<v Speaker 2>also if you want more information, it's on vinyleapp dot

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<v Speaker 2>com and we are in the US, UK and Canada.

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<v Speaker 1>So whether you're a music fan or not, it sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like vinyly might be a new way and a fun way,

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<v Speaker 1>especially if you have an AI robot making you cocktails

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<v Speaker 1>to find a mate. Thank you so much for being

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<v Speaker 1>with us, Rachel Van Nortwick of the dating app Vinyally

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<v Speaker 1>that matches you based on music tastes you have been

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<v Speaker 1>listening to The Doctor Wendy Waalsh Show on KFI AM

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<v Speaker 1>six forty. I'm here for you every Sunday from seven

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<v Speaker 1>to nine. You can also find me all over the internet,

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<v Speaker 1>but come on to the social media. I'll see you

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<v Speaker 1>on Instagram at Dr Wendy Walsh. It's always my pleasure

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<v Speaker 1>to be with you. You've been listening to The Doctor

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<v Speaker 1>Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty Live everywhere

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<v Speaker 1>on the iHeartRadio app.