Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Doctor Wendywell Show on KFI AM
Speaker 1: six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: really excited to introduce my next guest because I'm going
Speaker 1: to start by telling you a story. I was in
Speaker 1: Australia last week and I was having dinner with a
Speaker 1: group of people and one of my friends recently got
Speaker 1: married in September, and her husband is you know, it's
Speaker 1: sort of they wouldn't have met each other in real
Speaker 1: life if it wasn't for the apps, because they work
Speaker 1: in different industries, they lived in different part of the cities,
Speaker 1: et cetera. And I said, how did you meet? And
Speaker 1: she said, we met on a dating app that matches
Speaker 1: you based on your musical tastes. And I thought to myself, really, like,
Speaker 1: that's the foundation for their marriage, is that they liked
Speaker 1: the same record. Well, I had to get her on
Speaker 1: the show. Not that woman, but the founder of finally,
Speaker 1: a dating app that matches people based on music compatibility.
Speaker 1: Welcome Rachel van Nortwig. How are you.
Speaker 2: I'm doing well. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: So you launched vinyally about six years ago, and tell
Speaker 1: me how you got the idea that matching people based
Speaker 1: on taysts in music would work.
Speaker 2: Sure, So you know, by age six I had to
Speaker 2: fallen in love with my parents' records and started collecting vinyl,
Speaker 2: and by age fifteen I was hooked on live music.
Speaker 2: I've now been to over six hundred shows myself, and
Speaker 2: I was at one point married to somebody who was
Speaker 2: a less enthusiastic plus one when it came to seeing
Speaker 2: live music. And for me, you know, that's something that's
Speaker 2: so important as part of my lifestyle and my identity.
Speaker 2: There was men app like Vinylly, and so I set
Speaker 2: out to create one.
Speaker 1: So how does it work? First of all, before we
Speaker 1: get into how did it works? Why do you think
Speaker 1: music compatibility signals life compatibility as far as you know,
Speaker 1: living together, sharing bills, raising kids, caring for each other.
Speaker 1: What is the common denominator with music?
Speaker 2: So of course, you know there's so much that goes
Speaker 2: into a relationship, but you know, when you have a
Speaker 2: common bond, and a common bond that is something that's
Speaker 2: deep and tied to who you are as a person,
Speaker 2: that always helps right to have that kind of foundational
Speaker 2: appreciation for someone else. And so the great thing about
Speaker 2: vinylly is. It's actually backed by science. So science has
Speaker 2: proven that shared music in relationship in relationships actually increases dopamine,
Speaker 2: it lowers the stress hormone cortisol, and it strengthens communication.
Speaker 2: So there's you know a lot of reasons right that
Speaker 2: you know, music can help and be helping in a relationship,
Speaker 2: as well as the fact that just in today's world,
Speaker 2: you know, it's the way that young people express themselves.
Speaker 2: Daters have also said, you know, more than seventy percent
Speaker 2: of them said that if they did not match music
Speaker 2: with their partner, it would be a field breaker. So
Speaker 2: there's a lot of reasons that music is sort of
Speaker 2: the way for vioyly.
Speaker 1: And certain genres of music are connected to certain cultural groups, right,
Speaker 1: the difference between say, rap, classical jazz, and country. They
Speaker 1: might be different people, although there are some people who
Speaker 1: appreciate it all, like my husband. But you know, it's
Speaker 1: interesting because when people are dating, it's very common now
Speaker 1: for them to like make a music list as according
Speaker 1: ritual and send it to somebody a Spotify list or
Speaker 1: what have you.
Speaker 3: Was this kind of a takeoff on that, Yeah, So
Speaker 3: you know, when I was younger, we used to make
Speaker 3: mixtapes for you know, our friends or the people we
Speaker 3: were dating.
Speaker 2: We put such time and effort into you know, how
Speaker 2: we order what it meant, even like how we you know,
Speaker 2: created artwork on the outside. And so you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: in a way, you know, finally is sort of a
Speaker 2: modern day version of that. You actually can you know,
Speaker 2: create playlists on the app for people to check out
Speaker 2: before they decide to push play on you, and you
Speaker 2: can share music, you know, back and forth. So yes,
Speaker 2: in a way, it's it's very much the same.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting because I met my husband, you know,
Speaker 1: four and a half years ago. We got married in August,
Speaker 1: and I was doing a lot of long card drives
Speaker 1: because I have a farm in Oregon that I was
Speaker 1: remodeling and I do twelve hours on the freeway. And
Speaker 1: he was the first one to ever send me a
Speaker 1: playlist on Apple Music. And my initials are WW, so
Speaker 1: my nick name is dub and so the first playlist,
Speaker 1: which is called dub music, and I listened to and
Speaker 1: it was love songs expressing everything he was experiencing, and
Speaker 1: then it became dubbed music. The next one came, and
Speaker 1: then young Dub music, stuff from my childhood that might
Speaker 1: be reminiscent that we must share in common, and then
Speaker 1: classical dub and then let's go disco dub and I
Speaker 1: probably have twenty different until it became wedding recessional songs
Speaker 1: for dub.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: So I understand this like he was expressing himself through
Speaker 1: the music and also showing me that he knew me
Speaker 1: and stages of life. And I happen to be I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not into music. In other words, I let the
Speaker 1: AI choose my playlist.
Speaker 3: I just go.
Speaker 1: If I get on a staremaster, I'm embarrassed to tell
Speaker 1: you this, Rachel. I get on a Staremaster, I just
Speaker 1: type in the word Beyonce and I get like Beyonce music.
Speaker 1: You know, it starts with to the left, to the level,
Speaker 1: and the next thing you know, it's all music for staremaster.
Speaker 1: So he though knows music deep. And when we were
Speaker 1: in Australia last week, we went to the Sydney Opera
Speaker 1: House to listen to symphony and he looks at me
Speaker 1: and he's like, I can't believe this chamber orc starts
Speaker 1: doing Beethoven seven. They're like batting out of their league.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't know what you're saying, but okay,
Speaker 1: it sounds good to me. So how does vinyly work.
Speaker 1: When people go online? Do they list their favorite artists?
Speaker 1: How does it work?
Speaker 2: Sure? So, Vinyaly users can sink their Spotify or use
Speaker 2: our profile generator to sign up. We ask basic questions
Speaker 2: about what they're looking for, and then on proprietary algorithm
Speaker 2: produces matches. Right, so it's a pretty quick sign up.
Speaker 2: You can shuffle through matches or fast forward listening to playlists,
Speaker 2: and you know when you're ready to press play a match.
Speaker 2: You can use our music conversation starters. And then lastly,
Speaker 2: without having to leave the chat, users can actually search,
Speaker 2: suggest and buy a concert ticket.
Speaker 1: Oh that's great. So it's literally for music fans, but
Speaker 1: also for someone who's not a music fan to really
Speaker 1: get to know somebody's psyche by asking, by looking, you
Speaker 1: can actually go into their Spotify and see what they're
Speaker 1: listening to.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, you can see, you know, all of their
Speaker 2: songs that they've been listening to, and you can actually
Speaker 2: push play and listen to the music as well.
Speaker 1: This is fascinating. I love it all right, Rachel. When
Speaker 1: we come back, there's another subject I want to talk about,
Speaker 1: which is how artificial intelligence is reshaping the online dating experience.
Speaker 1: Hopefully it's reducing the swiping because my thumb is nearly
Speaker 1: broken from back in the day. But let's have you
Speaker 1: weigh in on that. My guest is Rachel van Nortwick,
Speaker 1: founder of Vinyally. It's spelled Vias and Victor. I n
Speaker 1: why l l y Vinyally like finally, finally I met
Speaker 1: the one on vinyly. I love it. It's a dating
Speaker 1: app that matches people based on music compatibility. All right,
Speaker 1: let's talk about AI. How can AI change dating experience?
Speaker 1: How start at the beginning? How can it reduce ghosting?
Speaker 2: Well, that's a great place to start. So there's a
Speaker 2: lot of uses for AI, of course within dating apps,
Speaker 2: but one of the most important ones is for you know,
Speaker 2: the dating app developers to implement AI, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: for you know, prevention of ghosting, of bots, of cat fishing, like,
Speaker 2: there's just that there's a lot of ways that they
Speaker 2: can implement you know, AI to to protect people, uh
Speaker 2: from you know, people that aren't actually on the app
Speaker 2: to try to meet someone. Now I'm saying that from
Speaker 2: just uh, you know, that's a ghosting. That's you know,
Speaker 2: built by uh, you know, a bot, not by you know,
Speaker 2: it's not ghosting of somebody who you're just chatting with
Speaker 2: and then they decide not to talk to you anymore.
Speaker 2: So there's there's ways that you know, we can be
Speaker 2: responsible as developers. Then in terms of ghosting, listen, it's
Speaker 2: it's tough. You know, it's tough out there when you're
Speaker 2: talking to somebody and then all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 2: the line just goes cold.
Speaker 1: I think heart breaking, heartbreaking when someone just and I
Speaker 1: always say to people, you know, if somebody doesn't have
Speaker 1: the relationship skills or the communication skills to say, hey,
Speaker 1: it was lovely chatting with you, I don't think romance
Speaker 1: is in the cards for us. But you know, good
Speaker 1: luck in the future. If they don't even have that
Speaker 1: basic skill to say goodbye in a polite way, then
Speaker 1: you are saved from them in a relationship. Thank good
Speaker 1: goodness they ghosted.
Speaker 3: Because yes.
Speaker 1: Now, so, first of all, is artificial intelligence being used
Speaker 1: yet in the dating apps?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we were the first actually to uh, you know,
Speaker 2: go out with AI in the app, and so we
Speaker 2: decided to do it in a fun way we use
Speaker 2: AI to let users replicate like buying drinks in real life,
Speaker 2: but in the app you get to blend you know,
Speaker 2: your genres that you like as well as the matches
Speaker 2: genres and create like a bespoke cocktail and it's fun.
Speaker 2: You can send it. It's actually like a complete recipe
Speaker 2: with instructions and you can then also, you know, if
Speaker 2: you went on a first date, make that in real life.
Speaker 2: So we used it, you know, for for fun. But
Speaker 2: there's also ways that you know, we're implementing a I
Speaker 2: on that will be rolling out that other dating apps
Speaker 2: used too, which is just helping, you know, helping with
Speaker 2: your matches. Right, so you know, we think that we're
Speaker 2: good at, you know, identifying who would be a match
Speaker 2: for us based on swiping or on our app. You know,
Speaker 2: it's going through the matches and pushing play. However, there's
Speaker 2: sometimes when actually, you know, AI can be helpful and
Speaker 2: provide matches to you that you may have overlooked but
Speaker 2: that actually proven over a larger database would prove out
Speaker 2: to be a good mesh for you.
Speaker 1: So they're basically like your mother telling you this is
Speaker 1: the person you should date.
Speaker 2: I guess. How about like your best friend with that.
Speaker 1: So basically the algorithms, you know, I sort of joke
Speaker 1: sometimes that TikTok algorithm is so good that it knows
Speaker 1: your soul, right, I mean, it's probably listening to our
Speaker 1: conversation right now, it's listening to everything, and then it
Speaker 1: provides you exactly the videos that you need to help
Speaker 1: yourself at that moment. So you're saying, artificial intelligence and
Speaker 1: dating apps can figure out really who you are and
Speaker 1: what you need and be able to provide the right
Speaker 1: people for you.
Speaker 2: It can help. I think it's you know, listen, I
Speaker 2: think there is still very much a human effort that
Speaker 2: you know, we shouldn't try to actually you know, go
Speaker 2: away from right. So it's important that you know, I
Speaker 2: feel or a user feels like they have control over
Speaker 2: their matches. But where it can be helpful is, you know,
Speaker 2: I can't or we can't see across you know, the
Speaker 2: rest of the people on the app to understand where
Speaker 2: maybe you know, a better match might be. But that's
Speaker 2: how AI can can be helpful. So I think use
Speaker 2: the right way. It's a great addition, but I think
Speaker 2: it's still important for users to feel like they have
Speaker 2: control over their actions on the app.
Speaker 1: So I always say that finding a good mate is
Speaker 1: partly biological, being physically attracted to somebody, having the right
Speaker 1: pheromones to have good compatibility biologically, then psychologically having a
Speaker 1: good attachment style to be able to form a secure attachment.
Speaker 1: And then there's the social and the dating apps have
Speaker 1: done the social really well. You know, the income, the
Speaker 1: zip code, the geographics, you know what somebody does for
Speaker 1: a living, whether they're what they eat, whether they're vegan
Speaker 1: or carnivore, what their politics are. The social piece. I
Speaker 1: find the dating apps has done a really good job
Speaker 1: at can a I work in those other areas psychological
Speaker 1: and biological.
Speaker 2: I think so, I think that there are opportunities for
Speaker 2: it to be implemented responsibly. I think that you know,
Speaker 2: AI can tell us things about ourselves that maybe we
Speaker 2: aren't actually either aware of or you know, don't lead with.
Speaker 2: So I think you know, whether you're on a dating
Speaker 2: app or in real life. My advice always is to
Speaker 2: date intentionally. Make sure that you know you know what's
Speaker 2: important to you, don't waiver. It's easy sometimes if you've
Speaker 2: been on dating apps for a long time and you
Speaker 2: meet someone and they don't quite say all of your characteristics,
Speaker 2: but you're just so you know, you're just trying to
Speaker 2: meet someone that you kind of compromise. It's not worth it.
Speaker 2: And so I think, you know, AI can kind kind
Speaker 2: of you know, be a north star and provide you
Speaker 2: with you know, the these are the types of matches
Speaker 2: you should go for based on you telling us you know,
Speaker 2: this is what you want. And I would say that's
Speaker 2: a great that's a great guide. But it's just something
Speaker 2: for us to I'll be conscious of.
Speaker 1: You know, you talked about intentional dating, and I often
Speaker 1: use a term rational love, meaning that if we allow
Speaker 1: always our instincts. Now, some of us have great instincts.
Speaker 1: We come from a healthy, happy family, We have a
Speaker 1: secure attachment style. Trust our instincts, but they are another
Speaker 1: you know, forty to fifty percent of the population who
Speaker 1: have an anxious attachment style and avoidant attachment style, and
Speaker 1: literally their attraction takes them right back to the scene
Speaker 1: of the crime, the person who will actually hurt them.
Speaker 1: And so we need to learn rational love, which is
Speaker 1: intellectually this is what I need, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: make myself choose this good person instead of this you
Speaker 1: know what I perceive to be a high value mate
Speaker 1: who's just going to be a player and hurt me
Speaker 1: in some way. And I hope that AI I can
Speaker 1: start to present that to people, and I bet ya.
Speaker 1: So my theory is that AI is going to get
Speaker 1: so good that they'll be able to actually predict people's
Speaker 1: romantic attachment style based on frequency of texts, the kind
Speaker 1: of words they use in the text, how long of
Speaker 1: texts they write. It's very obvious to me when I
Speaker 1: see people that it's so it's so obvious their attachment style.
Speaker 1: So I bet you AI is going to figure it
Speaker 1: out pretty soon too, which is cool. So Rachel that
Speaker 1: where do people find vinyly.
Speaker 2: So vinyally is available both on iOS and android. It's
Speaker 2: also if you want more information, it's on vinyleapp dot
Speaker 2: com and we are in the US, UK and Canada.
Speaker 1: So whether you're a music fan or not, it sounds
Speaker 1: like vinyly might be a new way and a fun way,
Speaker 1: especially if you have an AI robot making you cocktails
Speaker 1: to find a mate. Thank you so much for being
Speaker 1: with us, Rachel Van Nortwick of the dating app Vinyally
Speaker 1: that matches you based on music tastes you have been
Speaker 1: listening to The Doctor Wendy Waalsh Show on KFI AM
Speaker 1: six forty. I'm here for you every Sunday from seven
Speaker 1: to nine. You can also find me all over the internet,
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Speaker 1: on Instagram at Dr Wendy Walsh. It's always my pleasure
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Speaker 1: Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty Live everywhere
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