Speaker 1: Thirty hands Men's Queen Theology. Can you dig what's going on?
Speaker 1: All my local guys and gals and long distance pals.
Speaker 2: We're back.
Speaker 3: It's back.
Speaker 4: I'm back.
Speaker 3: It's good to see you, buddy.
Speaker 2: It's been what a month?
Speaker 4: Yeah, just about.
Speaker 3: It's nice to have the three Musketeers back together, all for.
Speaker 2: One and one for all.
Speaker 5: I believe you.
Speaker 4: I believe so guys, Like I said, you know, is
Speaker 4: that so five weeks? What's up? What's happening?
Speaker 2: Well? The questions, what's happening with you? A new job?
Speaker 2: New jobs so you can come around more often?
Speaker 1: Yeah, new adventures man, after you know, several months of
Speaker 1: fifty sixty hours a week and going from first shift
Speaker 1: today shift to night shift and just get slung around everywhere.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 1: Finally, Lord bless me with a good paying job, more money,
Speaker 1: day shift, more time off, so.
Speaker 2: You can't beat that.
Speaker 1: And I get to be here every Thursday.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 6: I'm excited about that. I know, Ben is It'll be
Speaker 6: good for us all together. That's that's really what it's
Speaker 6: all About's why we started this wow wow.
Speaker 3: But it's to reach everybody.
Speaker 6: But the thing is it was us here together together
Speaker 6: and and really try to reach out and and bring
Speaker 6: a few people back to the sheep fold, if you
Speaker 6: know what I mean.
Speaker 2: That's right justin Yeah, I guess that's me, and say prayer,
Speaker 2: Dear Heavenly.
Speaker 1: Father, thank you for today, Thank you for the mean
Speaker 1: blessings that you've given us, even the ones that we
Speaker 1: don't deserve, which is I guess all of them. You know,
Speaker 1: thank God we don't get what we deserve. Thank God
Speaker 1: for your your grace and your mercy and your loving
Speaker 1: kindness and long suffering. But thank you for this group
Speaker 1: of men, and thank you for this time. And you
Speaker 1: know it's iron sharpens iron when we get together, you know,
Speaker 1: we we we beat out some issues and some truths
Speaker 1: and rightly divide the word. And we're just very very
Speaker 1: thankful for that, Father, And we just pray for discernment
Speaker 1: over today's episode and over our guests that's been kind
Speaker 1: enough to come with us today. We asked the Holy
Speaker 1: Spirit wrap around him and give him the words to
Speaker 1: say and open the ears for those that need to
Speaker 1: hear this message. Father, and Jesus name that we pray amienmen, Well,
Speaker 1: who have you.
Speaker 4: Lined up for?
Speaker 5: Steve?
Speaker 4: Who you got?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 6: Today we got with us from through the Black Tom Done.
Speaker 6: We're super excited to have you. We've had you on
Speaker 6: for a Bible study in the past and really enjoyed
Speaker 6: that talk with you, and I love your insight.
Speaker 3: I love a lot of your online content.
Speaker 6: You're not you're not afraid to back down from very
Speaker 6: you know, know, pagan festivals and things of this nature.
Speaker 6: I've watched a lot of your videos and they're very
Speaker 6: inspiring to see how we really should witness. And then
Speaker 6: we got to see you too back at the actually
Speaker 6: at two conferences. Now we've got to see you speak,
Speaker 6: and it's really inspiring to see how you are, you know,
Speaker 6: pushing the Word of God and attacking it and not
Speaker 6: afraid of, you know, sharing your beliefs with people who
Speaker 6: would normally shun the Christian community.
Speaker 3: So we're really great to have you on.
Speaker 5: Hey, God bless you guys. Thank you for having me on,
Speaker 5: and thanks for the patients of all the listeners out there.
Speaker 5: I have like a little bit of a head thing
Speaker 5: going on, So if I'm wiping my nose or something
Speaker 5: like that or coughing, please be patient with me. So
Speaker 5: I didn't have this like a day and a half
Speaker 5: ago before we get too deep into it.
Speaker 1: Tom, congratulations, seem to be Grandpa. I know you're excited
Speaker 1: and really looking forward to that, so congratulations.
Speaker 5: Hey man, thank you so much. Yeah, very excited about it,
Speaker 5: and I can't wait. I've said this for years. I'm ready.
Speaker 5: I'm ready to go, man, and my wife and I
Speaker 5: have been talking about it, but it wasn't our decision,
Speaker 5: so we had to wait on one of our kids
Speaker 5: for it to be their decision. And ultimately, hey, we
Speaker 5: know it's God's decision. But yeah, I am, I'm blessed,
Speaker 5: and we're excited, and yeah, it's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 3: That's awesome. It's just amazing.
Speaker 6: The miracle of life is one of the things that
Speaker 6: when you see it, I don't know how you can
Speaker 6: deny the presence of God.
Speaker 3: When you actually see.
Speaker 6: A newborn baby being born, and to think that that
Speaker 6: came out of nothing, it just blows my mind that
Speaker 6: anybody could ever believe that.
Speaker 7: But well, I'm just gonna for your daughter there. I'm
Speaker 7: just gonna let her know she's gonna be chop liver.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 7: We had our boys, me and my wife just turned
Speaker 7: into chop liver. It's hey, when you're gonna bring in
Speaker 7: boys up here. Oh you don't want to say yes, Well,
Speaker 7: well yeah, but when's it? When do you bring your
Speaker 7: boys up here?
Speaker 5: Yeah? No, that's true. And I and I've just been
Speaker 5: thinking about that as well. So uh yeah, all that
Speaker 5: all that goes with the territory, right.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's great. There ain't nothing like a like
Speaker 2: a child.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Nothing.
Speaker 6: Well, today, I guess we're going to jump into something
Speaker 6: a little bit different topic that one of our listeners
Speaker 6: actually brought up, and I thought it was a good
Speaker 6: topic to jump into and kind of get some different
Speaker 6: ideas from a few different minds, because not even not
Speaker 6: only do us in the room not agree, we don't
Speaker 6: know what Tom's idea on this as well. So we're
Speaker 6: gonna have a spirited conversation here about our beliefs on this,
Speaker 6: and we're going to talk about once Saved, always saved,
Speaker 6: that idea, that philosophy that a lot of people believe.
Speaker 6: There's different viewpoints on this. You can look at it
Speaker 6: from a calvinistic point of view, where you know there's
Speaker 6: predestination and things of this nature. But we're gonna look
Speaker 6: at some different opinions and different views from this. But
Speaker 6: I think the most important thing is to start off,
Speaker 6: and we got to lay the ground, you know, the groundwork,
Speaker 6: the foundation. What does it mean to be saved? So
Speaker 6: Tom take it away? What does that mean for you
Speaker 6: to be saved?
Speaker 5: You know, well I could, I could just take off.
Speaker 5: Salvation is a free gift that there's nothing that we
Speaker 5: could do to earn that gift, okay. And I was
Speaker 5: just watching a video about this a little bit ago,
Speaker 5: and it was comparing Christianity to all the other religions,
Speaker 5: and all other religions are works based. Okay, you have
Speaker 5: to do something to get to Heaven, to get to paradise,
Speaker 5: to get a reward, and the crazy thing. And I'm
Speaker 5: getting goosebumps right now just thinking about this. The gift
Speaker 5: of salvation, Okay, it's a free gift that there's no
Speaker 5: way that we could earn our way to heaven, but
Speaker 5: to receive it it cost your life. Does that make sense?
Speaker 4: It makes perfect sense.
Speaker 7: It's you live in the world and that's your life.
Speaker 7: For say, you know, that's that's your life. So in
Speaker 7: order to follow Christ, you have to give up the
Speaker 7: worldly life to live a christ the best christ Like
Speaker 7: life that you can live.
Speaker 2: MHM.
Speaker 6: Now that being said, you know what your guys idea,
Speaker 6: I want to hear your guys idea on what on
Speaker 6: what being saved means.
Speaker 7: So I guess I would fall under the once saved,
Speaker 7: always saved. But it's not five years old, and I
Speaker 7: have said a prayer because my friend said a prayer.
Speaker 2: It's not.
Speaker 7: You know, Mama took me to church, so I made
Speaker 7: her happy and I walked forward.
Speaker 2: You know, I got saved at ten.
Speaker 7: At a at a at a First Baptist church. You know,
Speaker 7: so you have the altar call, you walk up front
Speaker 7: of everybody, you know at the end of the service.
Speaker 2: But with saying that, it's also you might have thought you.
Speaker 7: Were saved, right, and then you just go off the rails.
Speaker 7: Then you have to question were you truly saved?
Speaker 2: You know? So was I saved at ten? I don't know.
Speaker 2: I know I'm saved now, you know. So it's kind of.
Speaker 5: One of them.
Speaker 2: I look at it as it's it's kind of gray.
Speaker 7: But it's like once saved, always saved, because the Bible says,
Speaker 7: you know, nobody can pluck you out of God's hand,
Speaker 7: but it doesn't say you can't jump out of it.
Speaker 1: Just say I grew up, you know, a Southern Baptist,
Speaker 1: and one thing they always talk it never sat right
Speaker 1: with me, was I remember being a kid and the
Speaker 1: preacher talked about, you know, you can dedicate your life
Speaker 1: to Christ and be saved, but then you go out
Speaker 1: and you go to a barbecue and you have some
Speaker 1: beers with your friends and die in a car wreck
Speaker 1: on your way home, and you die with alcohol in
Speaker 1: your breath. You're gonna wake up and Hell's going to
Speaker 1: be your home. And that that never set right with me.
Speaker 1: And I believe, you know, once saved, always saved, but
Speaker 1: with the caveat kind of like being, you know, So
Speaker 1: if you find yourself just habitually sinning without any remorse
Speaker 1: or conviction from the Holy Spirit, you have to ask
Speaker 1: yourself whereas you ever truly saved? You know, It's kind
Speaker 1: of like you will know the tree by the fruits.
Speaker 1: But you know, just like the Torus says, you know
Speaker 1: that he would write a new law on our hearts.
Speaker 1: And I like how Tom said, it's a gift that's
Speaker 1: given that you could never earn. But out of the
Speaker 1: outpour of grace that you have for that free gift,
Speaker 1: you want to respect that gift and take care of
Speaker 1: that gift, and honor that gift, and try your best
Speaker 1: to live up to the expectations set by your heavenly father.
Speaker 1: But I always look at David. David was a good example.
Speaker 1: You know, David was a man after God's own heart,
Speaker 1: but he murdered, he lusted after other women. But the
Speaker 1: key thing was is it broke his heart to be
Speaker 1: separated from God. And he was you know, he would
Speaker 1: always repent and mourn and cry so and like you said,
Speaker 1: you know, you can't be plucked from the hand of God.
Speaker 1: You know, you want saved, always saved, but that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that you can't throw it away or walk away. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that that was my thing. So I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I know everybody's got their own weak points and stuff
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 4: So I guess, like a good example is if.
Speaker 1: You were somebody that struggled, you know, with with drugs
Speaker 1: or pornography, and you get saved and you're you know,
Speaker 1: truly saved, and you turn your life around, you know,
Speaker 1: and where it says, you know, be righteous, you know,
Speaker 1: like Christ. You know, righteous doesn't mean perfect, it means
Speaker 1: set apart, be set apart from the world. And if
Speaker 1: you fall back and relapse and start looking at pornography,
Speaker 1: you know, again here and there, or start doing drugs.
Speaker 4: Or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 1: But if it's just so convicting on your spirit that
Speaker 1: you just cry out to God and I think, you
Speaker 1: know it's just a condition of the heart, well.
Speaker 6: I guess I'm gonna be the eyeball in the room
Speaker 6: and I'm going to say I don't believe one saved,
Speaker 6: always saved. And I'll use and the same thing as
Speaker 6: we'll get to that point, and I'll read a couple
Speaker 6: verses that I believe are kind of talking to that.
Speaker 6: I think that you can devote your life to God
Speaker 6: and then something happens and you fall away. The only
Speaker 6: unforgivable sin is rejecting the Holy Spirit. That's the only
Speaker 6: unforgivable sin. It says that multiple times. There's multiple verses
Speaker 6: that point out rejecting the Holy Spirit. You can have
Speaker 6: the Holy Spirit in you, and then you can also
Speaker 6: shun the Holy Spirit and take him out of you.
Speaker 6: You can get rid of the Holy Spirit. That's a
Speaker 6: volitional choice that you make. So I'll read one verse
Speaker 6: here and it just kind of as a kind of
Speaker 6: a starter for this, And if I look at Matthew
Speaker 6: twenty four, nine thirteen, it says, then they will deliver
Speaker 6: you to tribulation and put you to death, and you
Speaker 6: will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.
Speaker 6: And then many will fall away and betray one another
Speaker 6: and hate one another, many fall profits will arise and
Speaker 6: lead many astray because lawlessness will be increased, and the
Speaker 6: love of many will grow cold. But the one who
Speaker 6: endures to the end will be saved. So the way
Speaker 6: I look at it is if if you're going to
Speaker 6: fall away to the what to the end, But if
Speaker 6: you're going to fall away or if you're going to
Speaker 6: be led astray, like it says in that verse, you
Speaker 6: first have to belong to something. If you don't belong
Speaker 6: to either, then you're not getting led astray or you're
Speaker 6: not You're not You're not falling away or being led astray.
Speaker 6: You're you're just Oh that there's two paths. I'm going
Speaker 6: to go right or left. I mean, it just is
Speaker 6: what it is. I truly believe believe that you have
Speaker 6: you have the choice to have God in you. But
Speaker 6: a big part of that is it says I have
Speaker 6: that written down too, But it says that you know,
Speaker 6: it's not by uh you know, works, but by faith alone,
Speaker 6: so that no man can boast right. So it's nothing
Speaker 6: that we can do to get there. But after we
Speaker 6: have achieved that salvation, God lives in us, we should
Speaker 6: be exuding God. God should be seen through us. And
Speaker 6: I'm not saying we don't all fall short.
Speaker 3: We do.
Speaker 6: But if you go back to the Old Testament and
Speaker 6: you look at what did the priests sacrifice and and
Speaker 6: and give you know a tone for for the people.
Speaker 6: It was for the unintentional sin. We talked about that
Speaker 6: with the big bowl of blood. The priest walks in
Speaker 6: for the unintentional sin.
Speaker 1: But a lot of people may it's construe though too,
Speaker 1: that that wasn't cleansing of the people's sin. It was
Speaker 1: actually cleansing of sacred space. So God get in that space.
Speaker 6: It was, But it was also if you go back
Speaker 6: into the when they first were making the tabernacle out
Speaker 6: in the out in the field or not in the field,
Speaker 6: in the wilderness, sorry, in the wilderness, when they were
Speaker 6: first making the tabernacle. The whole point of this and
Speaker 6: this Heiser's got some great stuff on this but if
Speaker 6: you look through you look at all the sacrifices that
Speaker 6: were made, right, you had your guilt offering and your
Speaker 6: sin offering, and all these things that were made. They
Speaker 6: weren't for moral sin. They were for a different They
Speaker 6: were for There was no like a sacrifice for idolatry
Speaker 6: or adulterrey. The sacrifices were made for things like, you know,
Speaker 6: you were bleeding, so you were unclean. You touched a
Speaker 6: dead body so you were unclean, you know, and then
Speaker 6: there was the unintentional sin.
Speaker 3: You were you were unclean.
Speaker 6: The whole point was to put the people back in
Speaker 6: the right I guess, purify them to the to the
Speaker 6: ability that they were able to again resume worship towards God,
Speaker 6: to actually be in God's presence to some degree, And
Speaker 6: that was a big part of that.
Speaker 3: So I there there is some of both.
Speaker 6: And I'm not saying anybody's right or wrong. Particularly you know,
Speaker 6: this is just our beliefs when we go through this.
Speaker 6: But I think that's just an important way to look
Speaker 6: at it.
Speaker 1: But one thing that brought this up, and I'd like
Speaker 1: to bring it back to Tom, was we had a
Speaker 1: listener email us about this and then it was maybe
Speaker 1: just a few weeks later, I've seen that you had
Speaker 1: done a show and you were talking about well, I
Speaker 1: guess just run run us through that for those I
Speaker 1: don't want to spoil it and tell your story.
Speaker 4: You tell it a lot better.
Speaker 5: But so well, anyway, I want to respond to what
Speaker 5: we're talking about here. For me, I lean more towards
Speaker 5: I lean away from once saved, always saved. Okay. So
Speaker 5: this is, you know, another thing that we call that.
Speaker 5: I learned to call it later on as Calvinism. Okay. So,
Speaker 5: and the church that I grew up in it was
Speaker 5: what we call a holiness church, okay, and it was
Speaker 5: it was they were holy rollers. It was crazy in there.
Speaker 5: They did everything but speak in tongues. Okay. I don't
Speaker 5: know why they didn't speak in tongue, but they didn't
Speaker 5: believe in it, and they taught holiness. So I grew
Speaker 5: up believing that if you deviated and the slightest, that
Speaker 5: you were backslidden. Okay. Now I don't believe that anymore,
Speaker 5: all right, But I do believe that you can turn
Speaker 5: your back on God. I you know, I believe in
Speaker 5: the scripture everything that you guys have said, you know,
Speaker 5: nothing can snatch us out of his hand. I agree
Speaker 5: with that. And then you guys kind of use my
Speaker 5: line because my line would be, well, but you can
Speaker 5: walk away if you choose. So, you know, we're I
Speaker 5: don't believe that we are mind controlled robots. We have
Speaker 5: a you know, we make a decision to pick up
Speaker 5: our cross. So I I work in ministry with people
Speaker 5: on all sides of this, okay. And I have friends
Speaker 5: that are what we call, you know, reform Calvinists, you know,
Speaker 5: and I know people that are just the extreme end
Speaker 5: of that. And we're talking about predestination five point Calvinists,
Speaker 5: you know, the tulip all that, all that stuff there.
Speaker 5: So the way that I was raised and what makes
Speaker 5: sense to me is what we call holiness. It's I
Speaker 5: don't want to say it's the opposite of Calvinism, but
Speaker 5: it might, you know, it might. It might be a
Speaker 5: way to word that. We believe that you can sin
Speaker 5: and you can break your relationship with the Lord. Now again,
Speaker 5: I don't believe the way that I did when I
Speaker 5: was growing up, like if any little thing happens, or
Speaker 5: if you make one little mistake, then it's broken. Okay.
Speaker 5: And I think as I'm listening to you guys talk.
Speaker 5: We're all in a similar space, okay, and maybe the
Speaker 5: truth is somewhere in between. I don't. Uh, this is
Speaker 5: something that I've thought about, that I've studied, that I
Speaker 5: prayed about, and I said, Lord, I want to know
Speaker 5: the truth, you know, and I don't I don't want
Speaker 5: to preach something that's false, and I don't want to
Speaker 5: tell anybody anything that's wrong. And I want to know
Speaker 5: for myself what is the truth? And and usually when
Speaker 5: I when I do that, I'll open up the Bible
Speaker 5: and I'll find a verse like, you know, he who
Speaker 5: endures till the end shall be saved, okay. And then
Speaker 5: you know, there's there's many other verses that I think,
Speaker 5: will you know that support that. So anyway, I've seen
Speaker 5: a lot of people that I feel, we're Christians who
Speaker 5: produce fruit, okay, and that backslid turn their back on God.
Speaker 5: And of course the Calvinists would say, well, they were
Speaker 5: never really saved in the first place, and I'm like, Eh,
Speaker 5: that's a cop out. I don't know. But here's the thing,
Speaker 5: it doesn't matter if they were never saved in the
Speaker 5: first place or they did backslide What matters is they're
Speaker 5: loss now, okay, and we want to reach them. So
Speaker 5: I like having these conversations, and I think what you
Speaker 5: guys are, what you guys are doing, is good. But
Speaker 5: I want to say that, you know, for anybody out
Speaker 5: there listening, I've been pushing for unity, and I hate
Speaker 5: the idea that we would not fellowship with somebody because
Speaker 5: they don't line up with us on this, okay. Or
Speaker 5: I don't think that people that don't believe exactly the
Speaker 5: same way that I do, I don't think that they're
Speaker 5: not saved, and hopefully they don't think I'm saved. And
Speaker 5: what I often say is like, I don't know anything
Speaker 5: else in the world. The only thing I know is
Speaker 5: that I'm saved. I know I'm saved, and I don't
Speaker 5: know about anybody else. And if the person in front
Speaker 5: of me says they are, then I'm just gonna take
Speaker 5: their word for it. And sometimes you can see like, Okay,
Speaker 5: I don't think this person gets it. Okay, we should
Speaker 5: see a transformation, okay. And I like the illustration where
Speaker 5: you know, a preacher comes in and says, if I
Speaker 5: just told you that I came in off the highway
Speaker 5: and I got hit by a semi truck, would you
Speaker 5: believe me? And they're like, no, you don't look like
Speaker 5: you've been hit by a semi truck. Well, God wrecking
Speaker 5: our life should look the same way. We should look
Speaker 5: totally different from somebody who's worldly. Okay, it's like we
Speaker 5: got hit by a truck, So there should be some
Speaker 5: form of transformation. You know. I've met people in Haiti,
Speaker 5: in Germany and Poland and you know, all over the world,
Speaker 5: and we had that common denominator. Sometimes we didn't even
Speaker 5: speak the same language. But I'm like, I'm looking in
Speaker 5: their eye and I'm like, this person saved I know,
Speaker 5: you know, And I love that. To me. That's some
Speaker 5: of the best apologetics right there, is like this guy
Speaker 5: doesn't know how does this guy know? He didn't he
Speaker 5: didn't copy me, but he had an experience with the
Speaker 5: Savior in his country somewhere God saved him, you know,
Speaker 5: and he believes the same gospel I do. So anyway,
Speaker 5: and here we are, you know, we're in two separate
Speaker 5: states here, but we're continuing, you know, the ministry. So
Speaker 5: now to get to now, to get to the story
Speaker 5: that you that you mentioned. I recently found out that
Speaker 5: somebody that I know who was very involved in, who
Speaker 5: grew up in church, who was involved in in Christian ministry,
Speaker 5: went to Christian college, Okay, came out of the closet
Speaker 5: as a homosexual man. Okay, Now we knew, All of
Speaker 5: us knew this person struggled with this for a while.
Speaker 5: It wasn't a surprise to us. But we're disappointed that
Speaker 5: he kind of gave up the fight, Okay. And I
Speaker 5: found out some more things since I've made that video,
Speaker 5: and I have nothing but compassion and love for that person,
Speaker 5: and I'm just broken. I'm really broken for him and
Speaker 5: his family. But excuse me. One of the things that
Speaker 5: he said is he believes the Bible was written a
Speaker 5: long time ago and that it's not one hundred percent
Speaker 5: correct when it comes to homosexuality, and he believes that
Speaker 5: God made him gay so he can be a Christian
Speaker 5: and be gay. Okay, Well, according to God's word. For me,
Speaker 5: it's easy to say, Okay, this is not true, and
Speaker 5: you have a distorted understanding of God's word. And I
Speaker 5: think we have to know God rightly. Okay. His Jesus
Speaker 5: is not my Jesus. Okay, that's not the same. You know,
Speaker 5: we could say this about you know, alien Jesus or whatever,
Speaker 5: but I read that Jesus I rejected Jesus. That would
Speaker 5: you know say that this is okay? Because how do
Speaker 5: we do that? We test the spirit, We go back
Speaker 5: to God's word. What does God's word say? It's pretty
Speaker 5: clear on this. I trust the authority of God's word.
Speaker 5: I stand on that authority, and I believe God knew
Speaker 5: what he was talking about when he said this is
Speaker 5: an abomination. So anyway, that's a good point justin to
Speaker 5: kind of bring up that story, because here's a person
Speaker 5: who believes that they are still saved. Now. They didn't
Speaker 5: grow up They grew up in more of a the
Speaker 5: same kind of Wesleyan view. Okay, And I don't know
Speaker 5: if you guys are familiar with John Wesley, but John
Speaker 5: Wesley is kind of like the opposite of John Calvin. Right,
Speaker 5: So you have Wesleyan, which is your your Methodist, your Wesleyan,
Speaker 5: your Nazarene type of churches, and then Calvi this which
Speaker 5: are your Reformers and you know things like that. So anyway, uh,
Speaker 5: he didn't grow up in a church where he believed
Speaker 5: once they'd always saved, so or where they even taught it.
Speaker 5: But he believes that he can twist scripture. And uh,
Speaker 5: I learned a long time ago what cannot be crucified
Speaker 5: will be justified. So if you have, you know, if
Speaker 5: you have something in your life and you can't get
Speaker 5: it under the blood or you can't crucify it, then
Speaker 5: you're gonna find a way to justify it. So anywhere.
Speaker 1: And see with that, when I was talking and about
Speaker 1: you know, like David, you know, David struggled, you know
Speaker 1: with uh, you know, lusting after women, you know, and
Speaker 1: murder and things like that.
Speaker 4: But the conviction of his heart.
Speaker 1: When I was talking about that, I had in my mind,
Speaker 1: you know, far as like you know, homosexuality and and
Speaker 1: things like that. And I could be wrong. This is
Speaker 1: just my perspective, but something like that would be, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, constant, unapologetic rebellion because the Bible was clear
Speaker 1: on how he stands with that. And that's a daily,
Speaker 1: intentional choice of open rebellion instead of a backslide or
Speaker 1: a slip.
Speaker 5: You remember, yeah, you remember, I cannot remember. I don't
Speaker 5: know if it was Jonathan, but somebody that was close
Speaker 5: to David, and I'm embarrassed. I can't remember the name
Speaker 5: right now, but confronted David on this scin and he said,
Speaker 5: you are that man. He told a story and made
Speaker 5: an illustration about something. Nan Nathan okay, yeah, sorry, And
Speaker 5: Nathan said, you know, he had to use an illustration
Speaker 5: and kind of remove David out of the situation. And
Speaker 5: and he said, hey, you are that man. You were
Speaker 5: living in sin. You know what I'm saying, what you
Speaker 5: did was wrong. I like, I like understanding David because
Speaker 5: it gives me comfort because I'm like, wow, okay, David
Speaker 5: made it, so so can we you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5: And you know, we can think of a lot of
Speaker 5: examples in the Bible, but we can also think of
Speaker 5: people that didn't make it. Okay. For example, Balem, all right,
Speaker 5: here's a guy that God sent a talking donkey to
Speaker 5: him and it couldn't even get through to him, right,
Speaker 5: And that's how far you know that he had back slitten,
Speaker 5: And as far as we know, he didn't make it.
Speaker 5: Look at I mean, what about what about Saul. You know,
Speaker 5: here was a guy he started off right okay, but
Speaker 5: then he didn't obey, you know, and God is like, hey,
Speaker 5: what is the lowing. I hear of the cattle, you
Speaker 5: know what's going on with that, and then and you
Speaker 5: know the way that things ended up for him. So
Speaker 5: I think David could have been that guy if he
Speaker 5: would have not turned around. Okay, like so many kings
Speaker 5: in the Old Testament, he could have been that guy
Speaker 5: that didn't make it. Okay, But because he's heart was soft,
Speaker 5: because he repented, Okay, he did, he didn't make it.
Speaker 5: So anyway, I I don't know what you guys think
Speaker 5: about that.
Speaker 6: But I think that's I think that's an excellent point.
Speaker 3: But I want to kind of go.
Speaker 6: A little further in and and look at it from
Speaker 6: another point of view. If we go into Hebrews six
Speaker 6: four through sick Well, I got I'm gonna back this
Speaker 6: up just for a second. I apologize. I want to
Speaker 6: go and say that I one hundred percent agree with
Speaker 6: you what I always talk about this, and I brought
Speaker 6: this up numerous times and said that, you know, when
Speaker 6: Jesus talked to Peter, said you're the rock in which
Speaker 6: I will build my church, he didn't say his church is.
Speaker 6: He didn't say every denomination and say all these other
Speaker 6: people and honestly, Christians fight more among themselves than they
Speaker 6: do with non believers to try to help them along
Speaker 6: the way. If we spend as much time as we
Speaker 6: do fighting among the churches, as we reached out an outreach,
Speaker 6: we'd make a big dent in that population that right
Speaker 6: now has a hell on their mailing address, and we
Speaker 6: need to change that. And that's where that's where the
Speaker 6: church is failing right now, is that they're so focused
Speaker 6: on non salvation issues. But as a whole, I agree
Speaker 6: we need to unite. We should all be together on
Speaker 6: the same page. Nonsalvation issues are nonsalvation issues. I just
Speaker 6: think that's really important that we put that out there.
Speaker 6: And that's that's our stance, and it's my stance, and
Speaker 6: I believe you guys are on par with that. But
Speaker 6: I do have a verse that I want to kind
Speaker 6: of go into because I think it kind of, at
Speaker 6: least from my point of view, this is kind of
Speaker 6: where this comes from as far as this once saved,
Speaker 6: always saved. And I think it because it points and
Speaker 6: it shows and if you look at he six four
Speaker 6: through six, it says, for it is impossible in the
Speaker 6: case of those who have once been enlightened, who have
Speaker 6: tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy
Speaker 6: Spirit and have tasted the goodness of the Word of
Speaker 6: God and the powers of the age to come, and
Speaker 6: then have fallen away to restore them again to repentance,
Speaker 6: since they are crucifying once again the Son of God
Speaker 6: to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Speaker 6: I think that's a pretty I don't want to say
Speaker 6: I'm damning verse. I hate saying that. But in the
Speaker 6: way that we look at this and see it's you
Speaker 6: can have that salvation, you can have that gift. But
Speaker 6: if you know, we have think about this. We have
Speaker 6: trials and tribulations that are in our lives. Some of
Speaker 6: these things are brought on by sin. Some of these
Speaker 6: things are God testing us. They're things that we have
Speaker 6: to overcome. God puts stumbling stones in front of us.
Speaker 6: He did that with the Law, with the Jews. He
Speaker 6: puts stumbling stones in front of them to overcome. That's
Speaker 6: the whole point is to overcome. It strengthens us. It
Speaker 6: tries to push us in that direction. What would be
Speaker 6: more godly?
Speaker 1: For Jesus told Peter too, that reminds me, you know,
Speaker 1: when he said, you know, Satan has asked me to
Speaker 1: sift you like we you know. I mean that's if
Speaker 1: you know, when you're sifting, you're separating the good from
Speaker 1: the bad. So I mean it's it's meant to strengthen
Speaker 1: you and and to grow you and.
Speaker 6: And that's the whole point is that those things are
Speaker 6: in front of us. But say something happens super traumatic,
Speaker 6: and I hope to dear God no one out there
Speaker 6: has ever, you know, had a child pass away or
Speaker 6: something like this where you sit there and you question, God,
Speaker 6: how could you let this happen? How could you do this?
Speaker 6: How could these things happen? I don't think we can
Speaker 6: point to God on those things. I think they're sinning
Speaker 6: the world.
Speaker 4: I mean, look at David. That happened to David Dave.
Speaker 3: That story with David is an amazing story.
Speaker 4: He lost a child and he was it. He stopped
Speaker 4: praying and.
Speaker 3: He got up.
Speaker 6: He took a bath a shower right afterwards, and he
Speaker 6: telled the servants because the servants were scared to.
Speaker 3: Talk to him.
Speaker 6: He says to the servants, he goes they or they
Speaker 6: were surprised. They're like, how can you go back to
Speaker 6: just eating and sitting there and he goes, well, he
Speaker 6: when he was alive, he had a chance to come
Speaker 6: back to me, But now that he's not, now I
Speaker 6: know I will go to him. So, I mean, it's
Speaker 6: a it's a powerful thing. But when you look at
Speaker 6: that and you see these people that might go through
Speaker 6: something horrific in their lives and people do All of
Speaker 6: us have had struggles in our lives that maybe have
Speaker 6: made us question, have given hold on, hold on, have
Speaker 6: given us doubts, have done those things, But we have
Speaker 6: to understand that we have a choice at that point.
Speaker 6: We have free will.
Speaker 3: We can either remain and say yes, God, I know I.
Speaker 6: I'm going to do everything I can to continue on
Speaker 6: that godly lifestyle, or we can fall away. We have
Speaker 6: it's that verse plainly states that you can fall away.
Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say, it's like Joe.
Speaker 7: Joe could have been like, we'll screw you, I'll then
Speaker 7: do my own thing now, but he didn't.
Speaker 3: And job's a good one.
Speaker 6: He's kind of like if you go back to David
Speaker 6: in Well we talk about free will, a lot of
Speaker 6: people question free will like oh, they're like, if God
Speaker 6: already knows, then you're basically a puppet. It's that calvinistic
Speaker 6: point of view that we talked about. But I love this,
Speaker 6: and I think it was Heiser that first I first
Speaker 6: heard this from. Was if you look at what is
Speaker 6: this first Samuel twenty three seven through thirteen, It says,
Speaker 6: now it was told Saul that David had come to Quila,
Speaker 6: and Saul said, God has given him to my hand,
Speaker 6: for he has shut himself in by entering a town
Speaker 6: that has bars and gates. And Saul summoned all the
Speaker 6: people of the war to go down to Quila and
Speaker 6: besiege David and his men. And David knew that Saul
Speaker 6: was plotting to harm against him, and he said to
Speaker 6: Abathar the priest, bring the ephod here. Then David said, Oh,
Speaker 6: Lord God of Israel, your servant, who surely heard that
Speaker 6: Saul seeks to come to Kuila to destroy the city.
Speaker 3: On my account?
Speaker 6: Will the men of Kila surrender me to his hand?
Speaker 6: Will Saul come down, as your servant has heard, Oh
Speaker 6: Lord God of Israel, please tell your servant. And the
Speaker 6: Lord said he will come. Then David said, will the
Speaker 6: men of Kila surrender me and my men to the
Speaker 6: hand of Saul? And the Lord said, they will surrender you.
Speaker 6: So David and his men about six hundred rows and
Speaker 6: departed Quila and went wherever they could go. And I
Speaker 6: think that's such a cool verse because it shows, yes,
Speaker 6: David had a choice. He could have stayed there, he
Speaker 6: could have he left. But you see that God knows
Speaker 6: the outcomes of your actions. It's not that he's manipulating
Speaker 6: you like a pawn. We have free will, and that's
Speaker 6: a really important part when we talk about this salvation.
Speaker 6: We have to know we have the free will to decide.
Speaker 6: There's not a predestination or predetermination of where you're gonna
Speaker 6: be Heaven or Hell. You are gonna either choose salvation,
Speaker 6: you're gonna live as godly a life as you possibly
Speaker 6: can with God center, or you're gonna choose corruption.
Speaker 3: You're gonna choose hell.
Speaker 6: And you might not look at it that way, you
Speaker 6: might not think this is hell, but you have a
Speaker 6: choice to make, regardless of the once saved, always save
Speaker 6: side of things. If you're saved and you're gonna continue
Speaker 6: to follow God, that's a conscious choice. You have the
Speaker 6: choice to either continue to do that or to not.
Speaker 6: And at that point, it doesn't matter what you believe.
Speaker 6: It doesn't matter if you know, if you can't say, well,
Speaker 6: I said the words this long ago.
Speaker 3: But I'm gonna go and live my life.
Speaker 6: Like.
Speaker 3: You know, like Absalom, Like.
Speaker 6: I'm trying to think of so many other people that
Speaker 6: went through and they totally you know, they might have
Speaker 6: been Christian, Saul, like you said, you know, all these
Speaker 6: different people at the beginning. Solomon was such a great
Speaker 6: example where at the end he's building pagan temples for
Speaker 6: his wives. And this is the guy that prayed to
Speaker 6: God and God talked to him. I said, what do
Speaker 6: you want? And he says, wisdom. The smartest guy, the
Speaker 6: guy was given wisdom by God, the smartest guy in
Speaker 6: the world ever, is given wisdom, and he still falls.
Speaker 8: Away his choice, you know, his choice, and that's something
Speaker 8: we see, you know, just like you know, the the
Speaker 8: gentleman that Tom was referring to, you know, he he
Speaker 8: had a choice and he made his choice.
Speaker 1: But like he what was that quote you said, they
Speaker 1: either crucified or justify it.
Speaker 4: I don't like you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, if you if it cannot be crucified, it will
Speaker 5: be justified.
Speaker 1: Because the listener that suggested this, and you see, I
Speaker 1: didn't know if you guys knew the same person because
Speaker 1: when they messaged me and said they, you know, wanted
Speaker 1: to hear us talk about this topic. They had a
Speaker 1: very similar story. But they told me this maybe two
Speaker 1: to four weeks before you had done that show, and
Speaker 1: they had said, you know, I'm just I'm really bothered
Speaker 1: by the you know, I was raised, you know what, saved,
Speaker 1: always saved, and there's this man that I know, and
Speaker 1: considering him a brother in Christ and a great friend.
Speaker 1: He said there was no doubt. He said that this
Speaker 1: man was on fire for God and that he would
Speaker 1: go to these uh you know, pride rallies and evangelize
Speaker 1: these people and said that he you know, saved and
Speaker 1: changed many lives around doing the work that he did.
Speaker 1: But then he said, just out of nowhere, he come
Speaker 1: out on Facebook and pronounced, you know, that that he
Speaker 1: was gay. And it's like, you know, after you know,
Speaker 1: we got to talk and we you know, it wasn't
Speaker 1: the same person, but.
Speaker 4: It's just.
Speaker 1: It's something that's happening all around us. Obviously, the choices
Speaker 1: are being made.
Speaker 5: It's because of the water. It's turning the freaking frogs gay.
Speaker 7: I loved that we had that in a podcast that
Speaker 7: remix video where they made a whole song out of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what do you think.
Speaker 7: Well, I'm gonna reclarify my no, No, it's you know,
Speaker 7: you're on well water.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm on well water. So I'm okay.
Speaker 7: If you I do believe, if you blatantly turn away,
Speaker 7: then it's not the once saved, always saved.
Speaker 2: It's more like you are you have struggles.
Speaker 7: It's you know, it's it's kind of like cal Justin
Speaker 7: was saying, you know, say, you know, I say I'm
Speaker 7: addicted to porn, and I go good for two years,
Speaker 7: I slip up and then I die in a car wreck.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 7: But it's the the blatant you know what, I'm an
Speaker 7: atheist now or what?
Speaker 6: You know, what's the that's the what's the only unforgivable sin? Well, yeah,
Speaker 6: and denying the Holy Spirit. But that's the whole fucking
Speaker 6: out or jumping out, you know.
Speaker 5: So I grew up you know in this denomination that
Speaker 5: the name of the denomination was called Church of Christ
Speaker 5: and Christian Union. And maybe some people have heard of
Speaker 5: the Circleville Bible College in Ohio. But that's the that's
Speaker 5: the connection there, that's our Bible college, and my grandfather
Speaker 5: was really, you know, how should I say, strict on
Speaker 5: this belief. But the older that he got, the more
Speaker 5: he softened on it. And he actually went to a
Speaker 5: church because it was close and he couldn't get out
Speaker 5: as far. So he went to a church that was
Speaker 5: kind of a Calvinist church. And you know what, I'll
Speaker 5: be honest with you, I'm going to a reform church
Speaker 5: now and I have been for a few years. They
Speaker 5: don't really preach about being reformed. They'd preach the Gospel.
Speaker 5: And if they did all the time, then I wouldn't
Speaker 5: go to that church. Once in a while it comes up,
Speaker 5: I address it with my family, and but in his
Speaker 5: older in his later years, my grandfather softened on it.
Speaker 5: He's like, man, some of these these preachers, these once saved,
Speaker 5: dolly saved preachers, are preaching more holiness, you know, than
Speaker 5: what I grew up in or what he was accustomed to.
Speaker 5: So I don't know where I was going with that,
Speaker 5: but but I think it kind of got a bad
Speaker 5: rap because from our point of view, we were seeing
Speaker 5: people use it as an excuse to sin, and it
Speaker 5: was almost like a comeback that they had once saved,
Speaker 5: allays saved, so I can do whatever I want. And
Speaker 5: their life was crazy, you know, and we were just shocked.
Speaker 5: We're like, whoa, hey, we're holiness over here. We believe
Speaker 5: you gotta you know, God said be holy because I
Speaker 5: Am holy, all right. And then in contrast to what,
Speaker 5: you know, what we saw, well, those people that were
Speaker 5: living that way, they weren't good representations of the of
Speaker 5: the actual churches that believe that way. Okay, I think
Speaker 5: those those guys they would even say about you know,
Speaker 5: so and so, you know whatever his name is, like,
Speaker 5: that guy was never saved, you know, or something I've
Speaker 5: I've just experienced all kinds of things, you know. I
Speaker 5: remember I went to church with this guy. And this
Speaker 5: was a long, long time ago, so I'll use this
Speaker 5: guy's first name. His name was Sean, and he wanted
Speaker 5: to debate with me. This is back when I was
Speaker 5: about twenty years old. He wanted to debate with me
Speaker 5: once Saved, always Saved, and I was like, okay, I'm
Speaker 5: not very you know, I'm not very smart or whatever,
Speaker 5: but and he just wanted to defend this lifestyle. And
Speaker 5: this guy was involved in church. He was just very
Speaker 5: you know, all about evangelism and all these things and
Speaker 5: a very giving guy. Long story short, I found out
Speaker 5: that he got caught with another dude and he went
Speaker 5: to prison for arm robbery. Well, in my young mind,
Speaker 5: at twenty years old, I connected his belief with how
Speaker 5: he ended up. In my mind, I connected, well, hey,
Speaker 5: he thought he was always going to be saved, so
Speaker 5: he could get away with these things, or it led
Speaker 5: him down that path, right. So I'm not saying it is,
Speaker 5: but that was That's what I was thinking, and that
Speaker 5: kind of formed my opinion of people. The older I got,
Speaker 5: the more people I got to know, the more mature
Speaker 5: you become, and you realize, hey, these guys don't represent
Speaker 5: the whole denomination or the whole church. I don't know
Speaker 5: if that makes sense.
Speaker 3: But well it does.
Speaker 6: But this, this what you said, kind of brought this
Speaker 6: verse up for me. Is that Hebrews ten twenty six
Speaker 6: and twenty seven says, but if we go on sinning
Speaker 6: deliberately after received the knowledge of the truth, there no
Speaker 6: longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation
Speaker 6: of judgment and the fury of fire that will consume adversaries.
Speaker 6: And listen I'm not a I'm not a hell fire
Speaker 6: and brimstone kind of guy. I'm not I've never even
Speaker 6: gone to a church like that where you get you've
Speaker 6: talked about it before, but you know, I believe in
Speaker 6: a God of love. But when we get to that
Speaker 6: point at the end, what does it say? And justin
Speaker 6: you've brought this up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, many will stand before the throne and say, Father,
Speaker 1: did we not prophesy in your name? Great works in
Speaker 1: your name? Cast out demons in your name? And He'll
Speaker 1: still say, to part from me, I never knew you.
Speaker 3: And that's that right there. I think sums that up.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that's spot on.
Speaker 1: See I like to look at Salvation as your your
Speaker 1: your lunch tab. Now think about this, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is this varies from personality types, and I understand that.
Speaker 1: But if you go out we all four went out
Speaker 1: to dinner, and let's say, you know, we all just
Speaker 1: ordered a cheeseburger. But then all of a sudden, Tom says, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: checks on me. I want to get this for you.
Speaker 1: You got two options. You can either a reject him
Speaker 1: and say no, you're not paying for my tab. You know,
Speaker 1: be you know prideful I'm paying for it, or oh
Speaker 1: I'm going to pay you back, or no, I wash
Speaker 1: dishes because I don't have the money to pay for it, right,
Speaker 1: Or you could be like, oh well, if Tom's getting it,
Speaker 1: bring us add our beers and bring us two large pizzas.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to go back of those curly fries too.
Speaker 1: You know, just because it's paid for, it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: you jacked the bill up. So you know, since you
Speaker 1: know you are saved and your sins are forgiven, that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you know you live and.
Speaker 2: See as thou wilt. And I've always I've heard this saying.
Speaker 7: Also it's you know, it's almost to the point of
Speaker 7: you know your sinning and you continue to you're just
Speaker 7: crucifying Jesus all over again.
Speaker 3: That's the verse we just read. It is pretty much
Speaker 3: what that said.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, but you don't have to buy us no dinner, Tom,
Speaker 1: I was just used, nazal.
Speaker 5: L okay man. You let me off the hook. Thanks guys.
Speaker 2: Justin said he'll buy it next time we're together.
Speaker 5: No, that's I think that's a good illustration.
Speaker 3: Get a good point.
Speaker 6: Earlier though, a time when you were talking about you
Speaker 6: know those who endure to the end, and I think
Speaker 6: that's that shows that we're trying to live that godly
Speaker 6: lifestyle all the way to either our death or the
Speaker 6: end of this world. And so we have to kind
Speaker 6: of push through all the trials, all the hardships, all
Speaker 6: the things that we are are, you know, faced with
Speaker 6: all the different temptations we have, all the different struggles
Speaker 6: we have, and we all have them.
Speaker 3: There's not a.
Speaker 6: Single one of us that can't say we're not tempted
Speaker 6: by something in our life. So I think we get
Speaker 6: to the point then, is you know, how are we saved?
Speaker 6: And what's our calling as Christians? You know, we all,
Speaker 6: I mean, we know the Sunday School answer, you Jesus
Speaker 6: died on the cross, take away our sins. But the
Speaker 6: problem is most people leave it as a Sunday School answer.
Speaker 6: They don't truly think about somebody sitting there actually sacrificing
Speaker 6: their life just for you.
Speaker 7: And and it's almost to me also with you saying
Speaker 7: that it's not just he sacrificed his life, it's not
Speaker 7: me being in a firefight and Iraq and my buddy's
Speaker 7: over here are getting ambushed. So I stand up to
Speaker 7: take the heat and I get out and die. He
Speaker 7: was literally tortured. And then they say the crucifixion was
Speaker 7: the most painful way to die ever.
Speaker 2: So it wasn't just he died.
Speaker 6: The whole goal of the Crucifixion was to get you
Speaker 6: as close to death and make you hang.
Speaker 1: On right, like telling you, guys that that Prometheus lens
Speaker 1: I'm doing. When I start releasing the episodes, make sure
Speaker 1: you check out the one on the Shroud of Turn.
Speaker 3: That's interesting stuff.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I talked to what was his name, I've had, Barry Schwartz.
Speaker 1: He was the lead investigator of the Shroud of Turin,
Speaker 1: and he talked about, you know, all the markings on
Speaker 1: that cloth and there was like over three hundred lashes
Speaker 1: that wrapped all the way around the front. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't no pretty little crown of thorns. It was just
Speaker 1: a bush crammed on his head.
Speaker 4: And it puts you in.
Speaker 1: It brought me to tears just listening to it.
Speaker 7: I mean, it's like watching the passion of the passion
Speaker 7: of the Christ. I mean, that's as he's getting beat.
Speaker 7: That's a rough movie. I mean I've watched it once
Speaker 7: and I don't want to watch that again.
Speaker 5: That's I watched it once and I don't want to
Speaker 5: watch it again either. That's the way I feel.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was brutal.
Speaker 6: And to think that's because of our sin, I know nothing,
Speaker 6: he did nothing, he did. You know, a father loses,
Speaker 6: you know, gives his son and and a son gives
Speaker 6: his life.
Speaker 7: I mean, it's just And and on top of that,
Speaker 7: I heard I can't think of the guy. I think
Speaker 7: it's Charles Lawson, that the preacher man in Knoxville that
Speaker 7: I'm talking about on YouTube anyhow he is talking about.
Speaker 7: I can't remember what it was, but it was one
Speaker 7: of the recent ones that he's that his church put
Speaker 7: out of him talking and uh, he was talking like
Speaker 7: and I never I never really realized it. You know,
Speaker 7: I'm I'm Jesus died for are my sins?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 7: If I if I accept him, He died for my
Speaker 7: sins the way he died for everybody's sin. So he
Speaker 7: took everybody's sin, even the ones that reject him. Their
Speaker 7: sins are still paid for. But they didn't accept that
Speaker 7: free gift, so therefore they don't get to go to heaven.
Speaker 7: And that's just that much more. It was everybody's sin,
Speaker 7: sin in general, just all the sin. And I was like, wow,
Speaker 7: you know, I just never it never it never. I
Speaker 7: just never thought about it like that.
Speaker 4: I see you staring at your favor.
Speaker 3: Oh, I got it. I got papers for days.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry time I write everything down or type it
Speaker 6: out because I can't read my writing. But that and
Speaker 6: it's kind of funny how this has worked, because it's
Speaker 6: kind of all fallen in the way, you know, our
Speaker 6: our conversations is very organic.
Speaker 3: This isn't planned.
Speaker 6: That's kind of fallen in with the scripture that kind
Speaker 6: of has jumped out at me when I was going
Speaker 6: through some things. But we were just talking a little
Speaker 6: bit about that is when I brought it up. What's
Speaker 6: our calling as Christians? And I'm going to tie this
Speaker 6: back into something here in a minute. But if you
Speaker 6: go to what is this Romans ten thirteen through seventeen,
Speaker 6: For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord
Speaker 6: will be saved. How then will they call on him
Speaker 6: in whom they have not believed? And how are they
Speaker 6: to believe in him if they have never heard? And
Speaker 6: how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how
Speaker 6: are they to preach unless they are sent. As it
Speaker 6: is written, how beautiful are the feet of those who
Speaker 6: preach the good news. But they have not all obeyed
Speaker 6: the gospel. For Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed, what
Speaker 6: he has heard from us comes from hearing, hearing through
Speaker 6: the Word of Christ. So what is our calling? And
Speaker 6: tom you, this is something I said this to you
Speaker 6: last time you were here, and I just think, to me,
Speaker 6: it's something that has.
Speaker 3: Stuck with me like glue. And you told me last time.
Speaker 6: He didn't remember saying it, but it was at that
Speaker 6: first here, the Watchman conference that we met you at,
Speaker 6: and you had said and it was the I can't
Speaker 6: remember what the the theme of it was exactly, but
Speaker 6: you were doing the presentation and some of it was
Speaker 6: on the Book of Acts, and you said, the Book
Speaker 6: of Acts is really a guideline on how we're supposed
Speaker 6: to live our life.
Speaker 3: It's it's showing us.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: The word apostle, literally from the Greek, actually means messenger.
Speaker 3: That's what it means.
Speaker 6: We're all meant to be messengers apostles of God and
Speaker 6: reach out to everybody that we possibly can, just like
Speaker 6: the great commission that Jesus gave work to take that on,
Speaker 6: to put that cross on our back and keep going.
Speaker 6: And you said that you that's the thing that just
Speaker 6: it's something that has stuck with me every time. It's
Speaker 6: a way that we should live our life. And it
Speaker 6: really hit with me. It really resounded with me in it.
Speaker 6: And honestly, I can thank you for that. Act has
Speaker 6: become one of the favorite books of the Bible for
Speaker 6: me after you said that, because I looked at it
Speaker 6: a whole different light.
Speaker 4: To use your manual, it really is.
Speaker 5: My My late friend rust Isdar, he did a teaching
Speaker 5: and I don't know if you can find it. It's
Speaker 5: it's difficult to find his stuff, but he was working
Speaker 5: on a chapter by chapter teaching on the Book of Acts,
Speaker 5: just basically and connecting it to our life today. But
Speaker 5: you know, of course I give credit to him. He's
Speaker 5: the one that taught me those things. I've heard preachers say,
Speaker 5: we're living in the next chapter of the Book of Acts. Now,
Speaker 5: you know, the Book of Acts is not you know,
Speaker 5: as far as you know the canon and God's word,
Speaker 5: it's complete. But here we are, we've been living out
Speaker 5: for two thousand years now.
Speaker 6: I just think that that was one of those things
Speaker 6: that just blew me away, and it's something that it's
Speaker 6: something that I think has stuck with me and I
Speaker 6: think all of us when we just got done doing
Speaker 6: our ex Bible study. Actually, I think the next one
Speaker 6: will be the one that releases after we released this
Speaker 6: episode it be it'll be chapter twenty seven to twenty eight,
Speaker 6: the last two chapters, and we just got done doing that,
Speaker 6: and it's one of those things that, like I said,
Speaker 6: I've taken so much more from that. I think it's
Speaker 6: it's helped me kind of try to find who I'm
Speaker 6: supposed to be, who God wants me to be. And
Speaker 6: we've talked about our spiritual gifts, the things that we're given.
Speaker 6: God has given us a platform here. This isn't us,
Speaker 6: this is none of us. Are people that would have
Speaker 6: ever thought we'd sit in front of a microphone and
Speaker 6: talk to everybody.
Speaker 3: This is not any of us.
Speaker 4: This is a Bible study.
Speaker 6: This was a Bible study because we all were like minded,
Speaker 6: you know, Christians that just wanted to kind of delve
Speaker 6: into some of the more fringe things and it just
Speaker 6: kind of developed into this. And this is God putting
Speaker 6: us out there in a way, you know, it talks
Speaker 6: like Jonah. Jonah did not want to go to Nineveh.
Speaker 6: That was not his plan.
Speaker 3: No, he did not.
Speaker 6: But you know, when you're put in a place, God
Speaker 6: gives you either a spiritual gift, or he gives you
Speaker 6: a platform, or he pushes you in a certain direction.
Speaker 3: Listen to him.
Speaker 6: He's pushing us in this direction to reach as many
Speaker 6: people as we possibly can. And regardless of your denomination,
Speaker 6: regardless of your background on the church, if you believe
Speaker 6: that Jesus died for you, if you firmly believe Jesus
Speaker 6: died for you, that that Holy spirit's living inside you
Speaker 6: and you will feel it, that you know you're.
Speaker 3: Going to heaven.
Speaker 6: And all these other things that the denominations fight over,
Speaker 6: all the other things that all the other churches fight
Speaker 6: over that are nonsalvation issues shouldn't matter. They shouldn't tear
Speaker 6: us apart. They should be we should be uniting together
Speaker 6: as a church. So for what it's worth, that's my two.
Speaker 7: Cents, and talking about that, it's it's the you don't
Speaker 7: have to be I've done this and done that. God
Speaker 7: would never use me. Paul murdered people that were Christians,
Speaker 7: and at the beginning of his ministry after Jesus come
Speaker 7: to him on the road to Damascus. They were terrified
Speaker 7: of them. They're like, oh, he's under cover. Yeah, you
Speaker 7: know pretty much. Yeah, he's tricking us.
Speaker 2: I mean, if.
Speaker 7: Anybody was was to be was to go by that standard,
Speaker 7: he wouldn't have used Paul because he killed them.
Speaker 2: If you know, look a drug dealer, a.
Speaker 7: Guy who's been in prison for most of his life,
Speaker 7: and he gets saved and he comes out, He's the
Speaker 7: one that can talk to the drug dealers and the
Speaker 7: drug addicts because he was there.
Speaker 2: He knows exactly what they're going through.
Speaker 4: That's all part of God's planning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what makes it even even bigger.
Speaker 1: So makes you use your hardships, your downfalls, your experiences.
Speaker 4: And you used it.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: Was it that that scripture says what the devil meant
Speaker 1: for harm, God uses for good?
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had a very you know, uh rocky pass with
Speaker 1: with with drug abuse and and all sorts of things.
Speaker 1: And it's easy to navel gaze and be like, you know,
Speaker 1: God can never use me. You know, I'm not worthy. No,
Speaker 1: that's devil, you dag on right, I'm not worthy. God
Speaker 1: don't need me. But thank God, he allows me to participate,
Speaker 1: and he uses me, and he can take my broken
Speaker 1: story and use it to give hope and inspiration to
Speaker 1: other people. Because I'm here to tell you anybody with
Speaker 1: an earshot of me, I do not have it all
Speaker 1: figured out. I fall daily, but praise God, I have
Speaker 1: a hand to grab and to pull me up. And
Speaker 1: if he can use me, he can use you too.
Speaker 7: And and and with that being said, it's like you
Speaker 7: hear people that say, hey, why don't you come to church?
Speaker 7: If I went to church, it up, the building would burn. Well,
Speaker 7: trust me, if that was true, it would already be
Speaker 7: burnt right from all of us that's going. But at
Speaker 7: the same time it's it's uh and.
Speaker 3: The loss that he didn't come for the righteous, for
Speaker 3: the center.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, well Tom, what do you got to Well,
Speaker 1: you know what you guys are talking about to me
Speaker 1: is the beauty of the Gospel.
Speaker 5: The world says we're nothing but haters and bigots, and
Speaker 5: we're you know, we're condemning people. No, we're you know,
Speaker 5: through God, God through us is saving people. You know,
Speaker 5: we're the one that's coming after the orphans. We're the
Speaker 5: ones that's coming after the broken and the sinners and
Speaker 5: and all these people, and they're saying we hate those people. No,
Speaker 5: we don't. I know, because of what God's done for me,
Speaker 5: he can rescue them and they don't have to live
Speaker 5: in that craziness whatever it is. And you know, we
Speaker 5: tonight we were talking about all kinds of things, whether
Speaker 5: it's drugs or homosexuality. Sin is sin is sin. You know,
Speaker 5: it could be heterosexual sin. It doesn't matter. The beauty
Speaker 5: of the Gospel is there is freedom, you know. And
Speaker 5: I just want to say, hey, lay your burdens down.
Speaker 5: You know, it feels so good to get that sin
Speaker 5: off your back. Man to know, yet like you're gonna
Speaker 5: have to do something about that one day, and it's
Speaker 5: it's not going to be enough. You don't want to
Speaker 5: show up on judgment day caring that because you're gonna
Speaker 5: be screwed. Okay, it would be better to have somebody,
Speaker 5: like you said justin cover the bill, Okay. So yeah,
Speaker 5: I just this is not about condemnation or judgment or
Speaker 5: bigotry or anything like that. It's about freedom. It's about freedom.
Speaker 5: Sin is like you know, living in sin is like
Speaker 5: living in chains. And we want to see people set free,
Speaker 5: and you know, I love seeing the look on people's
Speaker 5: face when they figure that out. Some people will hate
Speaker 5: us and spit it us and scream at us and
Speaker 5: all that stuff and whatever, and then when they get
Speaker 5: set free, they're they're glowing. I've been set free. I
Speaker 5: used to hate God. I used to hate God's people,
Speaker 5: but he's he's broken the chains. So it's good news, man.
Speaker 5: And I just loved hanging out with you guys, So.
Speaker 7: Yeah, saying that, it's like I've seen it in a
Speaker 7: couple of my friends.
Speaker 2: I won't I won't say his name, but.
Speaker 7: It's like you're always anxious, You're always worried what what's
Speaker 7: gonna happen, You're always stressed out. And then when you
Speaker 7: can truly just give it to God and be relaxed,
Speaker 7: just let it go, life is so much easier. Like
Speaker 7: you're not always worried about well, am I gonna get fired?
Speaker 7: And you know it was this girl gonna like whatever.
Speaker 7: It's just so much easier. It's it's I mean, it's
Speaker 7: always being a Christian's gonna be hard.
Speaker 2: It's not. You know, the Bible tells you that because
Speaker 2: the world's after you, but.
Speaker 7: The the the weight on your shoulders will almost go
Speaker 7: away because you're not the one carrying it if you
Speaker 7: can truly give it to God.
Speaker 5: Yeah, life is hard enough, man, Just get your sins
Speaker 5: taken care of. There's enough stuff going on.
Speaker 6: So I'll tell you the biggest thing when you say that,
Speaker 6: and it's it's the difference between us and other people
Speaker 6: that are struggling in life is we.
Speaker 3: Have that hope. Yeah, we have that hope in God.
Speaker 6: And that goes back to that verse and I've said
Speaker 6: it a million times with that first Peter three point fifteen.
Speaker 6: Always be able to give a reason for the hope
Speaker 6: that you have, but do so with gentleness and respect.
Speaker 6: You know, when you are preaching the gospel, you're reaching
Speaker 6: out to people, you're not You're not condemning them. You're
Speaker 6: condemning the sin. Don't get me wrong, but you're not
Speaker 6: condemning them. We're no better than anybody else. The differences
Speaker 6: we have God, that's right.
Speaker 7: Yeah, a white lie compared to murder, it's all in
Speaker 7: God's eyes, it's all the same.
Speaker 4: I like how Tom compared it to freedom. You know,
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 1: A new perspective for even Mete. You know, I mean
Speaker 1: it's don't be preaching nation, don't be preaching law, don't
Speaker 1: be preaching do not, do not be s do we
Speaker 1: need to be preaching freedom?
Speaker 4: I like that.
Speaker 6: Well, Tom, you want to let everybody know where they
Speaker 6: can find your information, find all your stuff.
Speaker 5: Guys, thank you so much for having me on. This
Speaker 5: has been planned out for months. Yeah. Through the Black
Speaker 5: dot Com. That's the website that you can find me at.
Speaker 5: That's where you can find all of our archives. We've
Speaker 5: got hundreds of archives and we talk about all kinds
Speaker 5: of stuff about the stuff that we've talked about tonight,
Speaker 5: and we expose a lot of witchcraft and Satanism and
Speaker 5: things like that, and it's a place, it's a safe
Speaker 5: place where you can come and learn about those things.
Speaker 5: A lot of Christians because we're Christians, we were God's word.
Speaker 5: We don't know what the world's up to. And you
Speaker 5: see things in the street and you're like, what does
Speaker 5: that mean? What's that symbol mean? What is that person doing?
Speaker 5: We talk about that stuff and you can find all
Speaker 5: that stuff at through the Black dot Com and just
Speaker 5: the other stuff that we do. We just uh, just
Speaker 5: appreciate everybody that checks us out. Subscribes to our YouTube channel.
Speaker 5: All that stuff means a world to us.
Speaker 4: Del VICKI we said, hey, we love.
Speaker 5: Her, Yeah I will.
Speaker 3: Thanks again, Tom.
Speaker 5: God bless you guys YouTube.
Speaker 1: I know you guys keep tuning in and thank you
Speaker 1: for coming along, getting your hands starting with us.
Speaker 7: Hey guys, thanks for listening to the dig Bible podcast.
Speaker 7: Don't be like a county worker, get in that whole
Speaker 7: dig so check us out on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and
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Speaker 2: See yeah
Speaker 5: You