WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:06.599 Thirty hands Men's Queen Theology. Can you dig what's going on? 2 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:11.119 All my local guys and gals and long distance pals. 3 00:00:11.480 --> 00:00:12.279 We're back. 4 00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:14.119 It's back. 5 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:15.839 I'm back. 6 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:17.519 It's good to see you, buddy. 7 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:19.280 It's been what a month? 8 00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:20.480 Yeah, just about. 9 00:00:20.600 --> 00:00:24.600 It's nice to have the three Musketeers back together, all for. 10 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:26.640 One and one for all. 11 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:28.280 I believe you. 12 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:34.119 I believe so guys, Like I said, you know, is 13 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:36.520 that so five weeks? What's up? What's happening? 14 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:40.880 Well? The questions, what's happening with you? A new job? 15 00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:43.520 New jobs so you can come around more often? 16 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:48.640 Yeah, new adventures man, after you know, several months of 17 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:52.479 fifty sixty hours a week and going from first shift 18 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:55.679 today shift to night shift and just get slung around everywhere. 19 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:55.920 Man. 20 00:00:56.439 --> 00:01:00.640 Finally, Lord bless me with a good paying job, more money, 21 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:02.960 day shift, more time off, so. 22 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:04.319 You can't beat that. 23 00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:06.719 And I get to be here every Thursday. 24 00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:07.040 Now. 25 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:09.879 I'm excited about that. I know, Ben is It'll be 26 00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:13.079 good for us all together. That's that's really what it's 27 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:17.159 all About's why we started this wow wow. 28 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:18.480 But it's to reach everybody. 29 00:01:18.519 --> 00:01:21.560 But the thing is it was us here together together 30 00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:25.040 and and really try to reach out and and bring 31 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:27.040 a few people back to the sheep fold, if you 32 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:27.519 know what I mean. 33 00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:33.200 That's right justin Yeah, I guess that's me, and say prayer, 34 00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:36.280 Dear Heavenly. 35 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:38.239 Father, thank you for today, Thank you for the mean 36 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:41.519 blessings that you've given us, even the ones that we 37 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:44.480 don't deserve, which is I guess all of them. You know, 38 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:47.239 thank God we don't get what we deserve. Thank God 39 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:49.400 for your your grace and your mercy and your loving 40 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:54.079 kindness and long suffering. But thank you for this group 41 00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:58.239 of men, and thank you for this time. And you 42 00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:00.840 know it's iron sharpens iron when we get together, you know, 43 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:04.959 we we we beat out some issues and some truths 44 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:09.280 and rightly divide the word. And we're just very very 45 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:12.680 thankful for that, Father, And we just pray for discernment 46 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:17.479 over today's episode and over our guests that's been kind 47 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:19.319 enough to come with us today. We asked the Holy 48 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:22.840 Spirit wrap around him and give him the words to 49 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.560 say and open the ears for those that need to 50 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:32.120 hear this message. Father, and Jesus name that we pray amienmen, Well, 51 00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:32.680 who have you. 52 00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:33.199 Lined up for? 53 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:33.520 Steve? 54 00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:34.120 Who you got? 55 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:35.560 Well? 56 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:38.879 Today we got with us from through the Black Tom Done. 57 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:42.000 We're super excited to have you. We've had you on 58 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:45.120 for a Bible study in the past and really enjoyed 59 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.960 that talk with you, and I love your insight. 60 00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:50.280 I love a lot of your online content. 61 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:55.879 You're not you're not afraid to back down from very 62 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:59.800 you know, know, pagan festivals and things of this nature. 63 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:03.080 I've watched a lot of your videos and they're very 64 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:06.159 inspiring to see how we really should witness. And then 65 00:03:06.199 --> 00:03:09.319 we got to see you too back at the actually 66 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:12.199 at two conferences. Now we've got to see you speak, 67 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:17.400 and it's really inspiring to see how you are, you know, 68 00:03:17.479 --> 00:03:20.240 pushing the Word of God and attacking it and not 69 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:24.319 afraid of, you know, sharing your beliefs with people who 70 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:26.280 would normally shun the Christian community. 71 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:27.680 So we're really great to have you on. 72 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.919 Hey, God bless you guys. Thank you for having me on, 73 00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:35.719 and thanks for the patients of all the listeners out there. 74 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:37.719 I have like a little bit of a head thing 75 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:40.599 going on, So if I'm wiping my nose or something 76 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:45.039 like that or coughing, please be patient with me. So 77 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:46.680 I didn't have this like a day and a half 78 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:50.240 ago before we get too deep into it. 79 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:56.360 Tom, congratulations, seem to be Grandpa. I know you're excited 80 00:03:56.400 --> 00:03:58.919 and really looking forward to that, so congratulations. 81 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:04.199 Hey man, thank you so much. Yeah, very excited about it, 82 00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:09.280 and I can't wait. I've said this for years. I'm ready. 83 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:12.639 I'm ready to go, man, and my wife and I 84 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:15.080 have been talking about it, but it wasn't our decision, 85 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:17.000 so we had to wait on one of our kids 86 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:21.040 for it to be their decision. And ultimately, hey, we 87 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:24.279 know it's God's decision. But yeah, I am, I'm blessed, 88 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:26.879 and we're excited, and yeah, it's gonna be awesome. 89 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:31.240 That's awesome. It's just amazing. 90 00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:33.040 The miracle of life is one of the things that 91 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:35.040 when you see it, I don't know how you can 92 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:36.199 deny the presence of God. 93 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:37.360 When you actually see. 94 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:39.800 A newborn baby being born, and to think that that 95 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:42.040 came out of nothing, it just blows my mind that 96 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:43.279 anybody could ever believe that. 97 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:48.879 But well, I'm just gonna for your daughter there. I'm 98 00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:50.920 just gonna let her know she's gonna be chop liver. 99 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:51.279 Now. 100 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:56.160 We had our boys, me and my wife just turned 101 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:59.120 into chop liver. It's hey, when you're gonna bring in 102 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:02.800 boys up here. Oh you don't want to say yes, Well, 103 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:06.000 well yeah, but when's it? When do you bring your 104 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:06.800 boys up here? 105 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:12.480 Yeah? No, that's true. And I and I've just been 106 00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:16.560 thinking about that as well. So uh yeah, all that 107 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:19.199 all that goes with the territory, right. 108 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:23.279 Oh yeah, it's great. There ain't nothing like a like 109 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:24.279 a child. 110 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:25.720 Yeah. 111 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:26.160 Nothing. 112 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:30.040 Well, today, I guess we're going to jump into something 113 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:33.040 a little bit different topic that one of our listeners 114 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:36.639 actually brought up, and I thought it was a good 115 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:39.720 topic to jump into and kind of get some different 116 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:42.199 ideas from a few different minds, because not even not 117 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:44.920 only do us in the room not agree, we don't 118 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:48.000 know what Tom's idea on this as well. So we're 119 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:52.279 gonna have a spirited conversation here about our beliefs on this, 120 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:55.279 and we're going to talk about once Saved, always saved, 121 00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:00.639 that idea, that philosophy that a lot of people believe. 122 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:03.920 There's different viewpoints on this. You can look at it 123 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:06.279 from a calvinistic point of view, where you know there's 124 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:10.199 predestination and things of this nature. But we're gonna look 125 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:14.680 at some different opinions and different views from this. But 126 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:16.839 I think the most important thing is to start off, 127 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:20.439 and we got to lay the ground, you know, the groundwork, 128 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:23.240 the foundation. What does it mean to be saved? So 129 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:25.279 Tom take it away? What does that mean for you 130 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:26.199 to be saved? 131 00:06:26.439 --> 00:06:30.160 You know, well I could, I could just take off. 132 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:34.480 Salvation is a free gift that there's nothing that we 133 00:06:34.519 --> 00:06:38.079 could do to earn that gift, okay. And I was 134 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:41.319 just watching a video about this a little bit ago, 135 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:44.639 and it was comparing Christianity to all the other religions, 136 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:50.240 and all other religions are works based. Okay, you have 137 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:53.680 to do something to get to Heaven, to get to paradise, 138 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:58.240 to get a reward, and the crazy thing. And I'm 139 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:01.839 getting goosebumps right now just thinking about this. The gift 140 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:09.439 of salvation, Okay, it's a free gift that there's no 141 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:11.759 way that we could earn our way to heaven, but 142 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:16.360 to receive it it cost your life. Does that make sense? 143 00:07:18.439 --> 00:07:19.560 It makes perfect sense. 144 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:25.879 It's you live in the world and that's your life. 145 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.040 For say, you know, that's that's your life. So in 146 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:31.399 order to follow Christ, you have to give up the 147 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:36.639 worldly life to live a christ the best christ Like 148 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:38.160 life that you can live. 149 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:39.480 MHM. 150 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:45.680 Now that being said, you know what your guys idea, 151 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:47.480 I want to hear your guys idea on what on 152 00:07:47.560 --> 00:07:48.759 what being saved means. 153 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:54.879 So I guess I would fall under the once saved, 154 00:07:55.079 --> 00:08:02.800 always saved. But it's not five years old, and I 155 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:06.399 have said a prayer because my friend said a prayer. 156 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:07.800 It's not. 157 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:11.879 You know, Mama took me to church, so I made 158 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:14.800 her happy and I walked forward. 159 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:17.480 You know, I got saved at ten. 160 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:21.519 At a at a at a First Baptist church. You know, 161 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.360 so you have the altar call, you walk up front 162 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:27.480 of everybody, you know at the end of the service. 163 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:39.679 But with saying that, it's also you might have thought you. 164 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:45.240 Were saved, right, and then you just go off the rails. 165 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:49.840 Then you have to question were you truly saved? 166 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:54.919 You know? So was I saved at ten? I don't know. 167 00:08:55.879 --> 00:09:00.600 I know I'm saved now, you know. So it's kind of. 168 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:01.039 One of them. 169 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:05.440 I look at it as it's it's kind of gray. 170 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:10.240 But it's like once saved, always saved, because the Bible says, 171 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:13.080 you know, nobody can pluck you out of God's hand, 172 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:16.399 but it doesn't say you can't jump out of it. 173 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:19.159 Just say I grew up, you know, a Southern Baptist, 174 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:23.320 and one thing they always talk it never sat right 175 00:09:23.399 --> 00:09:26.080 with me, was I remember being a kid and the 176 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:29.840 preacher talked about, you know, you can dedicate your life 177 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:33.879 to Christ and be saved, but then you go out 178 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:36.600 and you go to a barbecue and you have some 179 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:41.440 beers with your friends and die in a car wreck 180 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:43.559 on your way home, and you die with alcohol in 181 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:46.200 your breath. You're gonna wake up and Hell's going to 182 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:51.519 be your home. And that that never set right with me. 183 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:56.320 And I believe, you know, once saved, always saved, but 184 00:09:56.440 --> 00:10:00.039 with the caveat kind of like being, you know, So 185 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:09.679 if you find yourself just habitually sinning without any remorse 186 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:12.000 or conviction from the Holy Spirit, you have to ask 187 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:15.080 yourself whereas you ever truly saved? You know, It's kind 188 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:17.039 of like you will know the tree by the fruits. 189 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:20.120 But you know, just like the Torus says, you know 190 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:23.480 that he would write a new law on our hearts. 191 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:26.440 And I like how Tom said, it's a gift that's 192 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:30.559 given that you could never earn. But out of the 193 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:34.279 outpour of grace that you have for that free gift, 194 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:37.879 you want to respect that gift and take care of 195 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.440 that gift, and honor that gift, and try your best 196 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:46.159 to live up to the expectations set by your heavenly father. 197 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:51.559 But I always look at David. David was a good example. 198 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:54.600 You know, David was a man after God's own heart, 199 00:10:55.440 --> 00:10:59.480 but he murdered, he lusted after other women. But the 200 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:03.720 key thing was is it broke his heart to be 201 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:06.559 separated from God. And he was you know, he would 202 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:12.440 always repent and mourn and cry so and like you said, 203 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:14.320 you know, you can't be plucked from the hand of God. 204 00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:17.840 You know, you want saved, always saved, but that doesn't 205 00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:22.039 mean that you can't throw it away or walk away. Yeah, 206 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:24.919 So that that was my thing. So I mean, you know, 207 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:28.120 I know everybody's got their own weak points and stuff 208 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:28.440 like that. 209 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:31.360 So I guess, like a good example is if. 210 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:34.039 You were somebody that struggled, you know, with with drugs 211 00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:41.039 or pornography, and you get saved and you're you know, 212 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:43.879 truly saved, and you turn your life around, you know, 213 00:11:44.120 --> 00:11:46.360 and where it says, you know, be righteous, you know, 214 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:50.919 like Christ. You know, righteous doesn't mean perfect, it means 215 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:55.759 set apart, be set apart from the world. And if 216 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:59.960 you fall back and relapse and start looking at pornography, 217 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:04.480 you know, again here and there, or start doing drugs. 218 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:05.840 Or whatever the case may be. 219 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:09.039 But if it's just so convicting on your spirit that 220 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:11.879 you just cry out to God and I think, you 221 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:16.159 know it's just a condition of the heart, well. 222 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:17.960 I guess I'm gonna be the eyeball in the room 223 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:20.159 and I'm going to say I don't believe one saved, 224 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:23.960 always saved. And I'll use and the same thing as 225 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:26.840 we'll get to that point, and I'll read a couple 226 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:29.000 verses that I believe are kind of talking to that. 227 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:31.919 I think that you can devote your life to God 228 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:34.399 and then something happens and you fall away. The only 229 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:37.960 unforgivable sin is rejecting the Holy Spirit. That's the only 230 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:41.519 unforgivable sin. It says that multiple times. There's multiple verses 231 00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:44.600 that point out rejecting the Holy Spirit. You can have 232 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:47.799 the Holy Spirit in you, and then you can also 233 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:51.559 shun the Holy Spirit and take him out of you. 234 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:53.120 You can get rid of the Holy Spirit. That's a 235 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:58.399 volitional choice that you make. So I'll read one verse 236 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:02.039 here and it just kind of as a kind of 237 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:04.039 a starter for this, And if I look at Matthew 238 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:07.720 twenty four, nine thirteen, it says, then they will deliver 239 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:09.759 you to tribulation and put you to death, and you 240 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:12.919 will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 241 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.480 And then many will fall away and betray one another 242 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:20.240 and hate one another, many fall profits will arise and 243 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:24.320 lead many astray because lawlessness will be increased, and the 244 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:27.799 love of many will grow cold. But the one who 245 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:32.120 endures to the end will be saved. So the way 246 00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:34.120 I look at it is if if you're going to 247 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:39.759 fall away to the what to the end, But if 248 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:42.200 you're going to fall away or if you're going to 249 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:44.159 be led astray, like it says in that verse, you 250 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:47.200 first have to belong to something. If you don't belong 251 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:49.200 to either, then you're not getting led astray or you're 252 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:53.159 not You're not You're not falling away or being led astray. 253 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:56.120 You're you're just Oh that there's two paths. I'm going 254 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:57.759 to go right or left. I mean, it just is 255 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:01.519 what it is. I truly believe believe that you have 256 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:03.759 you have the choice to have God in you. But 257 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:08.720 a big part of that is it says I have 258 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:12.440 that written down too, But it says that you know, 259 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:19.240 it's not by uh you know, works, but by faith alone, 260 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:22.519 so that no man can boast right. So it's nothing 261 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:25.679 that we can do to get there. But after we 262 00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:30.399 have achieved that salvation, God lives in us, we should 263 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:32.960 be exuding God. God should be seen through us. And 264 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:34.759 I'm not saying we don't all fall short. 265 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:35.120 We do. 266 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:37.120 But if you go back to the Old Testament and 267 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:40.639 you look at what did the priests sacrifice and and 268 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:43.960 and give you know a tone for for the people. 269 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:46.840 It was for the unintentional sin. We talked about that 270 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:49.159 with the big bowl of blood. The priest walks in 271 00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:50.559 for the unintentional sin. 272 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:52.960 But a lot of people may it's construe though too, 273 00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:57.080 that that wasn't cleansing of the people's sin. It was 274 00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:01.039 actually cleansing of sacred space. So God get in that space. 275 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.440 It was, But it was also if you go back 276 00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:08.559 into the when they first were making the tabernacle out 277 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:10.440 in the out in the field or not in the field, 278 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:13.120 in the wilderness, sorry, in the wilderness, when they were 279 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:16.600 first making the tabernacle. The whole point of this and 280 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:19.519 this Heiser's got some great stuff on this but if 281 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:22.360 you look through you look at all the sacrifices that 282 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:24.480 were made, right, you had your guilt offering and your 283 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:27.639 sin offering, and all these things that were made. They 284 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:32.679 weren't for moral sin. They were for a different They 285 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:36.360 were for There was no like a sacrifice for idolatry 286 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:41.759 or adulterrey. The sacrifices were made for things like, you know, 287 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:44.080 you were bleeding, so you were unclean. You touched a 288 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:46.440 dead body so you were unclean, you know, and then 289 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:48.120 there was the unintentional sin. 290 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:49.679 You were you were unclean. 291 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:52.679 The whole point was to put the people back in 292 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:56.399 the right I guess, purify them to the to the 293 00:15:56.600 --> 00:16:00.600 ability that they were able to again resume worship towards God, 294 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:04.240 to actually be in God's presence to some degree, And 295 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:05.679 that was a big part of that. 296 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:08.600 So I there there is some of both. 297 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:12.840 And I'm not saying anybody's right or wrong. Particularly you know, 298 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:14.879 this is just our beliefs when we go through this. 299 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:16.679 But I think that's just an important way to look 300 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:17.039 at it. 301 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:19.679 But one thing that brought this up, and I'd like 302 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.720 to bring it back to Tom, was we had a 303 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:25.919 listener email us about this and then it was maybe 304 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:28.320 just a few weeks later, I've seen that you had 305 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:32.159 done a show and you were talking about well, I 306 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:35.440 guess just run run us through that for those I 307 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:37.399 don't want to spoil it and tell your story. 308 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:38.759 You tell it a lot better. 309 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:45.440 But so well, anyway, I want to respond to what 310 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.919 we're talking about here. For me, I lean more towards 311 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:55.200 I lean away from once saved, always saved. Okay. So 312 00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:00.279 this is, you know, another thing that we call that. 313 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:03.679 I learned to call it later on as Calvinism. Okay. So, 314 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:08.400 and the church that I grew up in it was 315 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:13.839 what we call a holiness church, okay, and it was 316 00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:17.960 it was they were holy rollers. It was crazy in there. 317 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:20.240 They did everything but speak in tongues. Okay. I don't 318 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:21.960 know why they didn't speak in tongue, but they didn't 319 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:26.279 believe in it, and they taught holiness. So I grew 320 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:30.640 up believing that if you deviated and the slightest, that 321 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:34.319 you were backslidden. Okay. Now I don't believe that anymore, 322 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:38.400 all right, But I do believe that you can turn 323 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:43.200 your back on God. I you know, I believe in 324 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:45.720 the scripture everything that you guys have said, you know, 325 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:49.039 nothing can snatch us out of his hand. I agree 326 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:53.599 with that. And then you guys kind of use my 327 00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:56.319 line because my line would be, well, but you can 328 00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:59.240 walk away if you choose. So, you know, we're I 329 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:02.559 don't believe that we are mind controlled robots. We have 330 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:04.599 a you know, we make a decision to pick up 331 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:10.160 our cross. So I I work in ministry with people 332 00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:13.240 on all sides of this, okay. And I have friends 333 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:16.559 that are what we call, you know, reform Calvinists, you know, 334 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:21.640 and I know people that are just the extreme end 335 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:25.200 of that. And we're talking about predestination five point Calvinists, 336 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:28.160 you know, the tulip all that, all that stuff there. 337 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:32.480 So the way that I was raised and what makes 338 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:36.200 sense to me is what we call holiness. It's I 339 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:39.119 don't want to say it's the opposite of Calvinism, but 340 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:42.079 it might, you know, it might. It might be a 341 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:44.759 way to word that. We believe that you can sin 342 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:51.400 and you can break your relationship with the Lord. Now again, 343 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:53.720 I don't believe the way that I did when I 344 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.279 was growing up, like if any little thing happens, or 345 00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:59.240 if you make one little mistake, then it's broken. Okay. 346 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:04.599 And I think as I'm listening to you guys talk. 347 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:08.960 We're all in a similar space, okay, and maybe the 348 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:13.480 truth is somewhere in between. I don't. Uh, this is 349 00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:16.279 something that I've thought about, that I've studied, that I 350 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:18.880 prayed about, and I said, Lord, I want to know 351 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:21.200 the truth, you know, and I don't I don't want 352 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:24.240 to preach something that's false, and I don't want to 353 00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:26.599 tell anybody anything that's wrong. And I want to know 354 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.839 for myself what is the truth? And and usually when 355 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.079 I when I do that, I'll open up the Bible 356 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:35.720 and I'll find a verse like, you know, he who 357 00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:39.640 endures till the end shall be saved, okay. And then 358 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.920 you know, there's there's many other verses that I think, 359 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:49.400 will you know that support that. So anyway, I've seen 360 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:54.599 a lot of people that I feel, we're Christians who 361 00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:59.799 produce fruit, okay, and that backslid turn their back on God. 362 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:05.599 And of course the Calvinists would say, well, they were 363 00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:08.319 never really saved in the first place, and I'm like, Eh, 364 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:11.599 that's a cop out. I don't know. But here's the thing, 365 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:14.480 it doesn't matter if they were never saved in the 366 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:19.599 first place or they did backslide What matters is they're 367 00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:23.319 loss now, okay, and we want to reach them. So 368 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:26.799 I like having these conversations, and I think what you 369 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:30.079 guys are, what you guys are doing, is good. But 370 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:35.160 I want to say that, you know, for anybody out 371 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:38.279 there listening, I've been pushing for unity, and I hate 372 00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:42.559 the idea that we would not fellowship with somebody because 373 00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:46.839 they don't line up with us on this, okay. Or 374 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:50.079 I don't think that people that don't believe exactly the 375 00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:51.680 same way that I do, I don't think that they're 376 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:54.400 not saved, and hopefully they don't think I'm saved. And 377 00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:57.680 what I often say is like, I don't know anything 378 00:20:57.680 --> 00:20:59.880 else in the world. The only thing I know is 379 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:03.519 that I'm saved. I know I'm saved, and I don't 380 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:06.519 know about anybody else. And if the person in front 381 00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:08.200 of me says they are, then I'm just gonna take 382 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:12.480 their word for it. And sometimes you can see like, Okay, 383 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:16.319 I don't think this person gets it. Okay, we should 384 00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:21.759 see a transformation, okay. And I like the illustration where 385 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:24.799 you know, a preacher comes in and says, if I 386 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:27.640 just told you that I came in off the highway 387 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:29.200 and I got hit by a semi truck, would you 388 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:31.400 believe me? And they're like, no, you don't look like 389 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:35.599 you've been hit by a semi truck. Well, God wrecking 390 00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:37.680 our life should look the same way. We should look 391 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:42.680 totally different from somebody who's worldly. Okay, it's like we 392 00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:45.039 got hit by a truck, So there should be some 393 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:49.279 form of transformation. You know. I've met people in Haiti, 394 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.240 in Germany and Poland and you know, all over the world, 395 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:58.480 and we had that common denominator. Sometimes we didn't even 396 00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:01.559 speak the same language. But I'm like, I'm looking in 397 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:04.160 their eye and I'm like, this person saved I know, 398 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:07.079 you know, And I love that. To me. That's some 399 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:10.519 of the best apologetics right there, is like this guy 400 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:12.680 doesn't know how does this guy know? He didn't he 401 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:15.480