Speaker 1: Colin.
Speaker 2: All be as y'all Kenner Dad.
Speaker 3: In Minna.
Speaker 1: Nobody called golf station. Bring me everybody, I'm your host.
Speaker 3: He didn't, so glad to be back with the OG homies,
Speaker 3: and we about to introduce him right here.
Speaker 1: We got two to three backstage third ones having Internet issues.
Speaker 1: He's the co creator of this damn joint. So we'll
Speaker 1: get to him when he gets here. But I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what it's been like three months since we have
Speaker 1: talked UAP related issues, which this one is a little
Speaker 1: preview there for you, But I'll tell you what we're
Speaker 1: gonna bring that. We're gonna bring the ladies on the
Speaker 1: Ogs of calling all beings who none of you have
Speaker 1: met yet. They are brilliant ladies who I am extremely,
Speaker 1: extremely proud to be associated with. So with that, let's
Speaker 1: all look at the Adam Dear. We're gonna say hi
Speaker 1: to everybody in the chat. But I got to get
Speaker 1: my homies up in the joint first. So this young
Speaker 1: lady is one of the original gangsters of CAB. I
Speaker 1: think we might have done maybe two or three episodes
Speaker 1: before she joined us, now very many and she became
Speaker 1: the chief researcher of CAB. This woman deals with folks
Speaker 1: as a therapist and she is just a wonderful human
Speaker 1: being who has done academic research for several years on
Speaker 1: this topic. So you know what to do. You know
Speaker 1: what to do. Party, people, put your hands together for
Speaker 1: a study of UAPs.
Speaker 4: Hello everybody, Hi, Amen.
Speaker 1: Thank you, dem Welcome back, buddy. I I do I do,
Speaker 1: I miss everything about you. I mean I just was
Speaker 1: telling you backstage and said, oh man, I want to
Speaker 1: see your face. It's been so long. Let's bring on
Speaker 1: our homegirl. Okay, this young lady right here, we have good?
Speaker 1: Is that? Okay? We good? Okay? Uh, And then we're
Speaker 1: going to say hi to everybody in the chat. So
Speaker 1: that's kind of become a cap thing that we do
Speaker 1: because they're extremely supportive of us. So this young lady
Speaker 1: right here is the latest to join the CAB troupe.
Speaker 1: She is also a researcher and investigator. She has done
Speaker 1: not one, two missing persons investigations in terms of true crime,
Speaker 1: and she gets calls from all over the world regarding
Speaker 1: UAP research. Most recently, she was invited to the sole
Speaker 1: conference out there in California, which a lot of us
Speaker 1: would have wanted to be invited to, but this young
Speaker 1: lady was because she dope with hell some party people.
Speaker 1: Put your hands together from my home girl, Courtney Connecto.
Speaker 1: Canna get the man for Courtney?
Speaker 2: Yeah, heymen, Hey guys, Hey guys. Oh my god, it's
Speaker 2: so good to be back.
Speaker 4: I missed you so much.
Speaker 2: It's good to be back with the Cavy crew.
Speaker 1: I miss you too, man, I miss you too. We
Speaker 1: got a lot of new friends that you guys aren't
Speaker 1: aware of, so I'm gonna try to just go down
Speaker 1: these because we got new mods and everything. So while
Speaker 1: we're waiting for Nathan, who is the co creator of
Speaker 1: Calling All Beings, we're gonna say hi to some people.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna start off with this young lady who
Speaker 1: is here first of all Jewles. You guys know Jewels
Speaker 1: because she's the OD of our four person moderator team. Now,
Speaker 1: so yeah, I know we need the applause just for this,
Speaker 1: but I can't work this.
Speaker 3: Uh all right, party pill right here, the man that
Speaker 3: you are seeing up in the right hand, upper right
Speaker 3: hand corner of your screen with a new hairstyle that's
Speaker 3: freaking me out because.
Speaker 1: He did not prepare me for this. He did not
Speaker 1: say anything to me about a new and more mature hairstyle.
Speaker 1: This man right here has a master's in divinity. He
Speaker 1: is a brilliant speaker, thing an analysts and orator on
Speaker 1: the nature of reality and UAPs. He's somebody I'm proud
Speaker 1: to call my brother. So everybody please put your hands
Speaker 1: together for the man that we call because every word
Speaker 1: comes out of his mouth's money, money, wow. Wow. Look,
Speaker 1: I'm really sorry everybody.
Speaker 5: I've had the most often our of technical difficulties. But
Speaker 5: it's great to be here. Forget all the technical technical
Speaker 5: difficulties that don't matter. It's good to be here, going
Speaker 5: to be with y'all. Looking forward to talking about this.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm so excited for the people to
Speaker 1: meet you. So we are going to Oh man, somebody
Speaker 1: got a membership. What have we got here? Oh, we
Speaker 1: have a new member that is Adam So I'm going
Speaker 1: on this gentleman show tomorrow night to talk UAPs. And
Speaker 1: his name is Adam Uh and he as the owner
Speaker 1: operator of Lampirate Radio and he's also he kind of
Speaker 1: does tech for other online entities. And he is a
Speaker 1: one I had a phone call with him. He is
Speaker 1: a wonderful conversationalist. So assuming my voice holds up, and
Speaker 1: it will, I will be on tomorrow night with Adam
Speaker 1: to talk to you a piece. So thank you Adam
Speaker 1: for becoming a member, and I must stay. We want
Speaker 1: to say to some people in the chat, so before
Speaker 1: we get started with this joint, so I am going
Speaker 1: to do that so that you guys can meet a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of new people that have joined the Cab family.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna start off here with Ernie Birdie. Ernie
Speaker 1: Birdie is also a mod on several channels. She's also
Speaker 1: a colorading like myself, and obviously she's interested to hear
Speaker 1: what's going on. So it's up, Ernie Birdie. This young
Speaker 1: lady right here is one of our new mods. She
Speaker 1: is from Illinois, got the cool Illinois accent. And this
Speaker 1: is miss Jessica m b ip homie. How you doing?
Speaker 1: We know the jewels. Let's see who else we got here.
Speaker 1: DeMar is another one of our friends from a Free
Speaker 1: Karen Read Nation. Hello be Matt. So we're just we're
Speaker 1: not going to pronounce they are there, Okay, Nathan, is
Speaker 1: that okay faye with me? Okay?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 1: And this young lady right here has done some help
Speaker 1: for me in terms of programming and helped me out
Speaker 1: to kind of make decisions on different themes for the
Speaker 1: show and so forth. And uh, this is in the
Speaker 1: voice of Jennifer McCabe, who is the antagonist in the
Speaker 1: the Karen Ree Trial. And it's Sarah Shock and Jara.
Speaker 1: So let's see. I think we already got Adam. I
Speaker 1: think that might be if there's anyone else. Oh, Donna,
Speaker 1: how are you? I don't think Deanna, I think you've
Speaker 1: been Yeah, it's been a while. Yeah, i've seen you here.
Speaker 1: Hello Deanna, Welcome and with a K stop home girl,
Speaker 1: Happy Tuesday. And Patty Murphy, Hello, Patty? Are you all right?
Speaker 2: Love?
Speaker 1: So there may be some accents tonight. And here it
Speaker 1: is this guy we got to do special here, so
Speaker 1: oh it's Boo all right. So Ken's asleep. Here we go.
Speaker 1: So it's Ken nothing and Ken Hathaway's little white from
Speaker 1: Nottingham Ing and so there you go. Hey, no boom, welcome,
Speaker 1: all right. I think we got everybody. So let's get
Speaker 1: started with the joint Nathan take it away, man, get
Speaker 1: us start, and then you know who to pass it to.
Speaker 5: Yes, all right. Well, first of all, it's going to
Speaker 5: be back together. It's been a long time. I want
Speaker 5: to give a huge shout out to my brother DJ
Speaker 5: over here for holding down the ford and doing his thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Man, you that's you, the host with the most doing that.
Speaker 5: I can to see you so religiously and effectively. Really
Speaker 5: appreciate the work that you've done in that. But it's
Speaker 5: great to be back with all the other co hosts here,
Speaker 5: Dev and Courtney. We've got a lot to talk about.
Speaker 5: Drones are on the menu, and I wasn't expecting to
Speaker 5: have drones for dinner, but that's what we're doing. We're
Speaker 5: doing drones for dinner. I hope you like the medium
Speaker 5: rare because that's how we're serving them. A lot of
Speaker 5: drones right now. For those of who don't know, we
Speaker 5: do like to cut up on the show a little bit.
Speaker 5: So there are a lot of drone talk, a lot
Speaker 5: of drone conversations happening right now in a lot of
Speaker 5: different spaces within the UFO community. Certainly there's a lot
Speaker 5: of interest in this topic, but just at large in America,
Speaker 5: it seems right now this is becoming a conversation piece.
Speaker 5: And I know that for a fact, because people who
Speaker 5: don't follow UFOs at all have just brought this up
Speaker 5: to me without me prompting anything about UFOs, that don't
Speaker 5: even know that i'd talk about UFOs, and they just
Speaker 5: bring this up as what are your thoughts on these
Speaker 5: new Jersey drones? Right So this is definitely in the
Speaker 5: minds of a lot of Americans right now, and not
Speaker 5: just Americans, apparently we're seeing drones in lots of places
Speaker 5: throughout the world. So I wanted to approach this subject.
Speaker 5: We've got a lot of really good insights on the
Speaker 5: panel that we have here, so we each bring a
Speaker 5: little bit something different to the table, and so I
Speaker 5: was hoping we kind of step through this subject through
Speaker 5: some different frameworks, and you know, we've we've all got
Speaker 5: different perspectives on it, and I'm sure some of us
Speaker 5: can talk to multiple frameworks at once, which is great
Speaker 5: as well. But I want to start with the kind
Speaker 5: of prosaic explanations and DJ, I want to go to
Speaker 5: you first, because yes, yes, you, because you've got a
Speaker 5: lot of expertise on what's in the sky, how to
Speaker 5: identify what's in the sky, and you've seen a lot
Speaker 5: of these videos that get posted probably more than you
Speaker 5: care to see, and just you have a lot of
Speaker 5: experience knowing what to look for when you're looking for,
Speaker 5: you know, things that are flying around, and so I
Speaker 5: wanted to get your take on what on the prosaic
Speaker 5: explanations for these objects? What are things that you look
Speaker 5: for when you when you see someone share a video.
Speaker 5: What's the first kind of thing that you start doing
Speaker 5: is you analyze that video and how do you approach
Speaker 5: this from from the from the vantage point of your
Speaker 5: air force experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the first thing I kind of look for
Speaker 1: is like the I'll ask them, uh, if there's a
Speaker 1: sound associated with it, and if there's no sound, then
Speaker 1: that that's one indicator. And then of course we would
Speaker 1: need to kind of know the range and altitude. So
Speaker 1: if it's something that they have a really clear view
Speaker 1: on them, Let's say it's you know, ifout a thousand
Speaker 1: feet or maybe even up to two three thousand feet,
Speaker 1: you know, you you you potentially would hear an audible
Speaker 1: sound potentially depending upon how large the object is, and
Speaker 1: then that would kind of ask them. The light patterns
Speaker 1: are really interesting because I would kind of want to
Speaker 1: look at what what the light patterns are in terms
Speaker 1: of uh, there's a timing associated with the anti collision strokes,
Speaker 1: the red and the white, so you know, they'll blink blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink,
Speaker 1: blink blink. Now they can get slightly out of timing,
Speaker 1: but there's still pretty consistent blink, blink, blink, that sort
Speaker 1: of thing. The NAB lights are on the wingtips, but
Speaker 1: the anti collision lights are usually are top and bottom.
Speaker 1: So with that, with that, I kind of look at
Speaker 1: those things. So now now that I've heard, okay, is
Speaker 1: their noise, isn't their noise? What does the lighting pattern
Speaker 1: look like? Is it dissimilar from what the FA requires
Speaker 1: on aircraft and obviously drones also require like anti collision lights.
Speaker 1: Then the next thing I'd be looking for is are
Speaker 1: they making movements? It doesn't have to be fast movements,
Speaker 1: but are they making movements in right angles up, down, left,
Speaker 1: right type of movements? Those would be the types of
Speaker 1: things that I would look for. And if they're if
Speaker 1: they're making right angles, especially that are very let's say linear,
Speaker 1: you know, where there's not a lot of drift associated
Speaker 1: with with that. You know, like if if a drone
Speaker 1: is coming down and it kind of starts to go
Speaker 1: like that, you know, and it'll sort of level off
Speaker 1: and they Okay, I can see some mechanical propulsion there,
Speaker 1: you know, because mechanical propulsion are things when they're close
Speaker 1: enough for things that we can hear, you know, we
Speaker 1: can hear jet engines, we can hear propellers, and we
Speaker 1: can even hear the rotor wash on these quad copters
Speaker 1: or even these octocopters you know that have have eight
Speaker 1: eight eight motors, et cetera. And so if they're moving
Speaker 1: in a very linear fashion, whether it's fast or not,
Speaker 1: then I start to that starts to think, well, this
Speaker 1: could be an amalost and particularly if they if they
Speaker 1: move at a very high rate of speed.
Speaker 5: So, and if you we get a lot of cell
Speaker 5: phone video footage, right, and I think it's natural for
Speaker 5: anybody that sees something strange in the sky, if they're
Speaker 5: really interested in it, they're going to grab their cell phone.
Speaker 5: That's that everybody's got one. We've all got the building
Speaker 5: cord video and they're they're capturing these videos. And a
Speaker 5: lot of times the cell phone footage is it's a
Speaker 5: little bit distorted, right, And so when you see footage
Speaker 5: like that where let's say it looks just like a
Speaker 5: bright light. You know what's going through your mind looking
Speaker 5: at footage? Do you just sort of say I need
Speaker 5: to see more, Like that's not convincing enough, there's not
Speaker 5: enough resolution. I love how you talk about the flight
Speaker 5: behavior because typically, like you say, planes would have a
Speaker 5: kind of a linear gliding kind of motion. They they
Speaker 5: just don't go up and down like this or make
Speaker 5: right hand turns. But when it comes to these videos
Speaker 5: and even photographs, how do you kind of examine that
Speaker 5: quote unquote evidence knowing what you know about nighttime the visualizations.
Speaker 1: So the first thing, you know, you're looking at those
Speaker 1: because we can't we and may not have the audio
Speaker 1: because you know, you're just going off of whatever the
Speaker 1: microphone is capturing with their cellular phone, so that may
Speaker 1: not be you know, have enough you know, uh, be
Speaker 1: able to attenuate and and get that that that sound
Speaker 1: in there, So I may not have that sometimes, uh.
Speaker 1: And so then I'm gonna look at what the light does.
Speaker 1: The lighting look very dissimilar from what I would associate
Speaker 1: with prosaic aircraft FAA certified aerial vehicles. So if I
Speaker 1: start seeing weird light patterns, like there was that one
Speaker 1: where it had the triangular light pattern on the bottom,
Speaker 1: and I found that to be anomalous or strange to
Speaker 1: me because I've not seen craft that have that. Is
Speaker 1: it possible to have that on the bottom of the drone.
Speaker 1: It's possible that that it could it could be that
Speaker 1: and and there. The resolution isn't enough to see both
Speaker 1: the sort of structure of the craft and then associate
Speaker 1: that to the lights. But we have all seen And
Speaker 1: when I say we all, I don't mean you all
Speaker 1: in the in the chat, but I mean the folks
Speaker 1: that are on the panel here have looked at hundreds
Speaker 1: and hundreds of videos and so when they see that,
Speaker 1: that would that triangular pattern is something that we've heard
Speaker 1: reported a lot, uh and has been alluded to. I'm
Speaker 1: sure Courtney, Dad, you know they have seen these. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's kind of that's the start of what I'm looking
Speaker 1: for in terms of lighting is Oh, that doesn't look
Speaker 1: like typical light. Oh my god, Sarah Shochnherr. Wow, thank
Speaker 1: you very much, ma'am. I must say, my friend, I
Speaker 1: really appreciate that is extremely generous of you and probably
Speaker 1: is the biggest donation we've ever received. Thank you very much, ma'am.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, and I'll be talking to you us soon.
Speaker 1: We got to get you on the show to co host.
Speaker 1: I think we've talked about that recently.
Speaker 5: Anyway, please to send it our way and kind of
Speaker 5: piggybacking on that, did I want to go to Courtney
Speaker 5: and deb on their thoughts on this. So you guys,
Speaker 5: like he just said, we've all seen a lot of
Speaker 5: footage and a lot of you know, different speculation about
Speaker 5: what's happening, and you know, how do you look at
Speaker 5: that through the lens of a researcher, through someone who
Speaker 5: examining that this content? How do you filter out the
Speaker 5: signal from the noise when it comes to this kind
Speaker 5: of footage.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, dev I'm gonna let one of us, do
Speaker 2: you go. I'm differ You're one of the original CAB members,
Speaker 2: so I'll wait my turn.
Speaker 4: Okay. So obviously, as a researcher, what I do as
Speaker 4: I research, like that's what I'm interested in. So of
Speaker 4: course I went into the research of what's going on
Speaker 4: with these drones. We had already seen stories from the
Speaker 4: war zone about it. Lou Alesando told us that basically
Speaker 4: objects were swarming over ships, but there were some things
Speaker 4: that people in the media kind of ignored. So, for instance,
Speaker 4: San Diego County in California has been reporting drones the
Speaker 4: Nebraska incident in two thousand and nineteen to twenty twenty.
Speaker 4: Also around this time of year, there was an incident
Speaker 4: where a drone landed on a ship and was retrieved. Like,
Speaker 4: that's crazy that people are ignoring some of the facts
Speaker 4: related to this, that this is an ongoing issue, even
Speaker 4: some of the reporting that's happened from the White House.
Speaker 4: I went back and did a little bit more research
Speaker 4: and found out, you know, the person I think his
Speaker 4: name is Kirby, he actually reneged on some of the
Speaker 4: comments he made in that press release and said, actually,
Speaker 4: I said many of the objects have been identified, but
Speaker 4: in fact some of them have not been identified yet.
Speaker 4: And I listened to the Pentagon press release and they've
Speaker 4: said that there are a variety of things happening. But yes,
Speaker 4: there are in fact drones that are flying around our bases.
Speaker 4: In fact, someone was recently arrested of a Chinese national
Speaker 4: is what they called him, after surveying a base. So
Speaker 4: that's where my approach is it's not so much in
Speaker 4: looking at pictures because they're terrible.
Speaker 2: We all know this.
Speaker 4: Phones can't take good pictures, but we know that our
Speaker 4: government satellites can take great pictures. So no one's buying that.
Speaker 4: They don't know what's going on or what these are.
Speaker 4: But I find it super interesting how little the governor
Speaker 4: of New Jersey has spoken about it. Soon someone's probably
Speaker 4: tipped him off on some of that information. I have
Speaker 4: a lot to say on this, but I'm gonna let
Speaker 4: Courtney take her turn. Courtney, what do you want to
Speaker 4: say about what do we do when we're looking at
Speaker 4: this information?
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's the classic problem. I mean for
Speaker 2: those of us who have been in research groups. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm you know, I've been involved in several research groups
Speaker 2: for a long time. The one i'm in now that
Speaker 2: i'm in locally, I've been in for a few years
Speaker 2: called UFOs in Alaska. So it's all the people around
Speaker 2: Alaska that upload photos and you know, all their local
Speaker 2: weird lights and strange anomalies from all over and anybody
Speaker 2: who's been in the field and UFOs know that Alaska
Speaker 2: has a really rich history of anomalous objects. Including the
Speaker 2: famous case with the Japanese airliner right over anchorage. So yeah,
Speaker 2: and that was a classic case. So we're really used
Speaker 2: to it. But we get all the time photos and
Speaker 2: videos and there's a lot of researchers that just immediately category,
Speaker 2: you know, categorically deny you know, photos, which is interesting
Speaker 2: because you know, you have to be at this for
Speaker 2: a long time looking at photos and videos and have
Speaker 2: the five observables, right. It was good. That was one
Speaker 2: of the good things that came out, and some of
Speaker 2: the communication was about the five observables six now we have,
Speaker 2: so I think that people who've been in the field
Speaker 2: for a long time are looking at a lot of
Speaker 2: this misidentification just being dismayed for one about it. Because
Speaker 2: there was even a period of time where the starlink
Speaker 2: systems were going up and getting launched and a lot
Speaker 2: of people were like, oh, you know, I'm seeing this
Speaker 2: and it's you know, it's starlink. So we had to
Speaker 2: do a lot of education and information about that for
Speaker 2: a couple of years about starlink and people using different
Speaker 2: types of you know, air aware and other things. So
Speaker 2: researchers have these things tips and tools that they use
Speaker 2: to look at planes and other things that are in
Speaker 2: the sky. What I think is really fascinating just looking
Speaker 2: at the framework, Like Nathan was talking about about these
Speaker 2: mass sightings right now, I just read, you know, Chris
Speaker 2: Sharp's article that the FBI had known about these last year.
Speaker 2: So I think that little bit of information is interesting
Speaker 2: that the FBI had been aware of this, but now
Speaker 2: we're just having kind of this huge, huge, you know,
Speaker 2: UFO researchers are calling it a flap, you know, but
Speaker 2: these mass sightings by regular citizenry and the FBI potentially knew.
Speaker 2: So that's one of the things I picked up on
Speaker 2: that I think is very interesting that's worth following in
Speaker 2: the future to find out what they know, how long
Speaker 2: did they know it, why were they looking at this,
Speaker 2: and that this has really turned into kind of a crisis,
Speaker 2: I think, especially in the UFO community, because there's a
Speaker 2: lot of regular commentators that are really taking this to
Speaker 2: the conspiratorial level, and it's disturbing for me. For me
Speaker 2: just to see the things that they're talking about. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's totally unsubstantiated and really dangerous. The things they're talking about,
Speaker 2: like heemtrails coming down and these drone spraying things over
Speaker 2: people in Pennsylvania, I mean, and then people getting their
Speaker 2: guns out and shooting, so and that part of it.
Speaker 2: In that framework, I think it's irresponsible, especially of an
Speaker 2: organization like the FBI, to have not been doing releasing
Speaker 2: of statements through the past year on what these things are,
Speaker 2: how to identify a common sense approach, which is to
Speaker 2: kind of have been preventative so we're not in the
Speaker 2: situation that we are right now where we have three
Speaker 2: different silos of government basically contradicting each other. That part
Speaker 2: has been pretty maddening to watch as a researcher.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the messaging component because
Speaker 5: and thank you Sherry D for it for those membership gifts.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Another five the seventy the other day, thank you,
Speaker 1: And she's one of our mods fabulous.
Speaker 5: So I'm glad you brought the messaging component because it
Speaker 5: is really interesting and I think it would go a
Speaker 5: long way to allaying some of the out of control
Speaker 5: speculation that we see happening not just in the UFO
Speaker 5: community but really in the public at large, that the
Speaker 5: messaging here has been very disjointed and awkward, and clumsy,
Speaker 5: and and I want to, you know, come back to
Speaker 5: DJ on this one, because you know, DJ, I know
Speaker 5: that they are sort of different and intelligence gathering protocols
Speaker 5: for what might be over the United States the mainland,
Speaker 5: the homeland, or whatever, and what might be in foreign theaters. Right,
Speaker 5: we have sort of operational procedures that you know, we
Speaker 5: can do certain kinds of collection in certain areas and
Speaker 5: can't do certain kinds of collection and others. But you know,
Speaker 5: you can't help but be reminded about the incident that
Speaker 5: happened early last year in twenty twenty three with these
Speaker 5: Chinese balloons or one of the balloons. There's three objects,
Speaker 5: I think at least three, one with which was a
Speaker 5: balloon that had a payload of some kind of shot down.
Speaker 5: But you know, at that time there was talk about
Speaker 5: NORAD and how they monitor air traffic and how they
Speaker 5: had done some recalibration of their sensors to pick up
Speaker 5: objects like this that they just hadn't noticed before. All
Speaker 5: they had to do is kind of change a couple
Speaker 5: of dials, and all of a sudden now they were
Speaker 5: seeing these things.
Speaker 1: And I wonder if you.
Speaker 5: Could talk a little bit about this aspect of it.
Speaker 5: The ability for the government to collect intelligence on objects
Speaker 5: like this, and and what is that intelligence both the
Speaker 5: gathering capability but also the intelligence information dissemination capability. How
Speaker 5: do they relay that information to those who are in
Speaker 5: the chain of command that can evaluate it and then
Speaker 5: make decisions and then give a message to the public.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean that's the secret sauce right there.
Speaker 1: There are some organizations three letter agencies, one of those
Speaker 1: eighteen couple of those eighteen intelligence agencies we have, you
Speaker 1: guys know the names. I don't want to name them
Speaker 1: here because of, you know, wanting to overstep any boundaries
Speaker 1: that may exist. But they do have the abilities to
Speaker 1: see these from a geospatial perspective. There's also so that
Speaker 1: that kind of was was going to get that that
Speaker 1: kind of was going to get to Nathan why this
Speaker 1: is a fan and why it's not just something prosaic.
Speaker 1: So if we get to the root level, why are
Speaker 1: we sitting here talking about drones? Why are people reporting drones?
Speaker 1: And it's because they've seen an unusual amount of First
Speaker 1: of all, people are looking down, you know, we talked
Speaker 1: about that the the other This is funny from Kevin
Speaker 1: and by the way, we have questions up above, I
Speaker 1: have two things starred. Miss Jessica wants to know kind
Speaker 1: of how you guys got into this. So we gotta
Speaker 1: we gotta get those questions answered before the end of
Speaker 1: the show or as soon as we can get through
Speaker 1: this portion, Nathan will go there. So so there's naval assets,
Speaker 1: you know, that are able to track things that are
Speaker 1: coming in. And also obviously we have a coast Guard.
Speaker 1: The Coastguard is not the d OD, The Coastguard is
Speaker 1: Department of Homeland Security. So with that, there are geospatial assets,
Speaker 1: there are aerial assets. So now that we know that
Speaker 1: people are reporting something and nominalists, that's how that's how
Speaker 1: this all starts. It is because people are seeing something
Speaker 1: in the sky and it looks unusual and they're usually
Speaker 1: looking at their phone. So for them to be looking
Speaker 1: up tells you that they've seen something that triggered something.
Speaker 1: So now and of course DJ with the bads, Okay,
Speaker 1: I know they love making because I've done some stuff
Speaker 1: where I'm reading people's excellent multi paragraph tweets and we
Speaker 1: would all read a portion of it like we've you know,
Speaker 1: we've done. But I'll use a different accent for each paragraph.
Speaker 1: So anyway, or maybe just like a really you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm a poet. So anyway, So with that, with
Speaker 1: all of that, that tells you something happened that was
Speaker 1: anomalous in nature. And I'm using that not to refer
Speaker 1: to UFOs, but something anomalous happened that caused people to
Speaker 1: make reports. Then in the midst of that, we have
Speaker 1: hobbyists up there saying, I want to take a look.
Speaker 1: Then they're figuring out, oh, well, if I don't have
Speaker 1: an IR camera, I can't potentially don't see anything, but
Speaker 1: I might see lights if they're lit up, you know.
Speaker 1: But it's hard to fly grown without an I our camera,
Speaker 1: at least visually unless you just tell it to come home,
Speaker 1: you know. So then you have law enforcement doing that.
Speaker 1: Then we have maybe state lease agency, you know types
Speaker 1: doing that. Then we may have d D assets also
Speaker 1: looking at that. Then on top of those, we may
Speaker 1: have fixed wing aircraft like fighter aircraft that have sensors.
Speaker 1: On top of that, we may have this one's good.
Speaker 1: Your your best accent is my nana, because I do
Speaker 1: that one Like the Dowager countests from Downton Abbey, the
Speaker 1: Maggie Smith character and so good evening. Ken Hathaway is
Speaker 1: so outstounding to have you hear in the So anyway,
Speaker 1: my throat's a little toasted.
Speaker 5: I've never heard that one's really good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Julie says, I sound like missus doubtfayer. I'm
Speaker 1: really offended. So so now on top of that, let's
Speaker 1: pile on top of that that you could have RQ
Speaker 1: fours at high altitude that are doing orbits over these
Speaker 1: areas of interest, which is a jet powered drone, big wings,
Speaker 1: very high altitude and uses radar. On top of that,
Speaker 1: we could have MQ nine reapers up there, which is
Speaker 1: the Air Force is one which is long wingspan, turboprop,
Speaker 1: you know, up to maybe eighteen hours of dwell time
Speaker 1: in the air orbiting looking at these things. So now
Speaker 1: we have a lot of people looking up and see
Speaker 1: Sarah saying more. Now we have all these different assets
Speaker 1: that maybe looking at one or two or three or
Speaker 1: five anomalous craft. So for people on the ground, aren't
Speaker 1: you confused at this point? I would? I would. I mean,
Speaker 1: of course I know what to look for if I
Speaker 1: were there, you know, But but even you know, depending
Speaker 1: upon the altitude, it could be difficult, but that's how
Speaker 1: congested these areas of interest could be, with not only
Speaker 1: the craft that potentially are anomalous, but also the ones
Speaker 1: that are looking at that craft to see what it's doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have an update on this, ma'am.
Speaker 4: Would you like? Would like? Okay? So one of the
Speaker 4: things I found in my research was that the Pentagon
Speaker 4: just released coincidentally, a confidential plan for how to counter
Speaker 4: UAVs or uas is as they're calling them now. So
Speaker 4: this is interesting to me because why wasn't that plan
Speaker 4: already in place? We have all of that tech right
Speaker 4: that DJ was just talking about, We have all of
Speaker 4: that ability. So why was this plan just now when
Speaker 4: this emerged in the public sphere after by the way
Speaker 4: UAP hearings. Why is this plan now being written?
Speaker 1: Why is it? What do you think?
Speaker 4: I think that there is potentially, and I hate to
Speaker 4: be controversial, a slight siop element to this. I hate
Speaker 4: to say it, but I'm getting this vibe.
Speaker 2: Well, I think you can look at what happened with
Speaker 2: Alaska to kind of confirm back up some of what
Speaker 2: you're feeling. You know, we had the balloon up here
Speaker 2: and the FBI had sent out a unilateral message the
Speaker 2: morning of this object that came up over the North
Speaker 2: and you know, we just saw, like I think it
Speaker 2: was three months ago that one of the objects over
Speaker 2: Alaska was listed as officially as a UAP. So I
Speaker 2: think that you have I think you're confirmed in your feelings,
Speaker 2: considering we already dealt with it. We went through the
Speaker 2: political wrangling, our own Senator Murkowski went to the Armed
Speaker 2: Services and complained about the lack of communication and the
Speaker 2: Alaskans didn't know about the balloon what it was, and
Speaker 2: the miscommunication between the FBI. And then here three months
Speaker 2: ago we see it listed as formally as a UAP.
Speaker 2: So it is maddening. It is maddening. And I think
Speaker 2: there is some part of this that is being obscured
Speaker 2: by the different agencies because this whole thing with this,
Speaker 2: you know, with these drones there were anomalous objects, is
Speaker 2: part of this. And now you see the Department of
Speaker 2: Homeland Security just come out yesterday and say they're not
Speaker 2: you know, they're either law enforcement or they're you know,
Speaker 2: hobbyists or whatever. So I have a feeling, a sinking
Speaker 2: feeling that we will see some of these be determined
Speaker 2: as UAPs. And I think that's the other part that's confusing.
Speaker 2: Why is Aero notat you know.
Speaker 1: This at all?
Speaker 2: In which they're classically saying this is real, prosaic whatever.
Speaker 2: I think that's also suspicious that they haven't said anything
Speaker 2: or chimed in on it. Do we have to wait
Speaker 2: for all the reports to go to them before they'll
Speaker 2: make a determination or say anything or go on the record.
Speaker 2: I mean, what's the deal with Arrow?
Speaker 1: Could you explain to the audience, because a lot of
Speaker 1: our people that are in the chat right now are
Speaker 1: from Free Carry, can you explain who Arrow is? In
Speaker 1: addition to the fact that Haro just entered the studio.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, this is just a short brief breakdown to
Speaker 2: the history. There was a during COVID there was a
Speaker 2: bill pass that put in some money for Unidentified Anomalous
Speaker 2: Phenomenon which basically put money toward looking at the different
Speaker 2: branches in our government or services and setting up basically
Speaker 2: an office. But it started off as a task force.
Speaker 2: It was called the UAP Task Force. And so when
Speaker 2: that happened, they tasked this leader, Jay Stratton, who had
Speaker 2: been ahead of several other offices doing UAP type work,
Speaker 2: and he led the task force essentially for a certain
Speaker 2: amount of time, and then Congressional oversight came in and
Speaker 2: then they lumped the UAP Task Force into ARROW, which
Speaker 2: is the All Anomalous Resolution Office, which takes in all
Speaker 2: reporting and then gives determinations about what is actually an
Speaker 2: unidentified anomalos phenomenon and what's not. And they give their
Speaker 2: determination and a breakdown of what's prosaic. So they're officially
Speaker 2: like the government organization that handles UAPs for the citizenry.
Speaker 2: That's where it stands now.
Speaker 4: That's emphasize emphasized resolution, emphasized resolution. Their goal is supposed
Speaker 4: to be resolution so that there is not public panic.
Speaker 4: So it is a good question, why are they not
Speaker 4: resolving so there's not public panic right now? Because people
Speaker 4: the White House came out and said, we don't know
Speaker 4: what these are. That's exactly what anomalists unknown means.
Speaker 2: Well, and I don't know about you guys, but I
Speaker 2: think the latest count when I just checked quickly before
Speaker 2: we came on air, was like six thousand reports.
Speaker 1: Well, I think most six thousand ports reports, meaning in
Speaker 1: this in this particular four okay, okay, And I think
Speaker 1: everybody on this panel is an agreement that the the
Speaker 1: organization arrow and there were clandestine organizations that weren't named
Speaker 1: previous to that, but this particular office was set up
Speaker 1: to actually be more like debunking and squashing Project blue
Speaker 1: Book style. We were led to believe in thought that oh,
Speaker 1: they're gonna really they're gonna resolve cases, They're gonna bring
Speaker 1: gather information and give it to the public because their
Speaker 1: mandate talked about all these different and I didn't believe.
Speaker 1: I never believed it, and unfortunately they proved us right.
Speaker 1: And I think we're all in agreement on that. But
Speaker 1: before we continue on this topic, because Jessica has asked
Speaker 1: a question, I'm wondering if you guys can briefly go
Speaker 1: over this please, maybe Nathan take it away.
Speaker 5: Sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I've not been a lifetime a UFO interested person.
Speaker 5: It's not something that you know, I've always been interested in,
Speaker 5: but I really got kind of pulled into this field
Speaker 5: in the last few years more actively. Even before the
Speaker 5: twenty seventeen article, I was starting to pay a little
Speaker 5: bit of attention to UFOs, primarily because Tom DeLong, the
Speaker 5: rock star from Blink one eighty two, there were rumors
Speaker 5: that he was spending a lot of money and effort
Speaker 5: on UFOs, and I found that I'm not a blank
Speaker 5: one ady too, you know, huge fan. I mean, music's great,
Speaker 5: but I haven't like following or anything. I just came
Speaker 5: across an article that said he was really interested in it,
Speaker 5: was you know, spending a lot of money on it,
Speaker 5: and I found that to be, you know, just fascinating.
Speaker 5: And not long after that, I kind of stumbled on that.
Speaker 5: Then this article broke the New York Times. Everyone talks
Speaker 5: about that, the twenty seventeen article, and that really kind
Speaker 5: of brought it to the forefront of my attention. So
Speaker 5: I got a lot more engaged in, you know, kind
Speaker 5: of the content community, the UFO community of interest, reading
Speaker 5: up on the books. I'm not a person who's had
Speaker 5: an actual UFO experience, at least not a classical one.
Speaker 5: I've certainly had some experiences that I would consider to
Speaker 5: be anomalists a little bit strange, but nothing that would
Speaker 5: be you know, a classic UFO siding per se. But
Speaker 5: then sort of last thing I'll say on it is,
Speaker 5: you know, my background is in kind of theology and religion,
Speaker 5: and you know, a little bit of philosophy here and
Speaker 5: there to have a strong interest in sort of the
Speaker 5: human component of these kinds of experiences, anomalist experiences in
Speaker 5: the human condition. You know, what does it mean for
Speaker 5: us to to to experience these things, to process these
Speaker 5: kinds of things. These have been experiences that have been
Speaker 5: reported throughout human history, and they have clearly impacted our
Speaker 5: history in dramatic ways. Anomalist experiences literally changed the course
Speaker 5: of human history and many different ways. And I think
Speaker 5: all of us with family probably have at least one
Speaker 5: example of a family member who's experienced something strange, whether
Speaker 5: it be a UFO or a ghost or whatever, that
Speaker 5: that is part of your family lore, and it's always
Speaker 5: that story that got you know, I don't know how
Speaker 5: that happened it, but it you know, when when Grandma
Speaker 5: experienced that, you know, they moved from Alabama to you know,
Speaker 5: to Florida, and then the whole family moved and that,
Speaker 5: you know, these are kinds of things that happen. So
Speaker 5: we like to sort of brush these off as I
Speaker 5: think superstitious experiences, but they clearly do shape our behavior.
Speaker 5: So I'm really fascinated by that component of it and
Speaker 5: what it means about human consciousness and all those things.
Speaker 5: So I could go on and on, but that's kind
Speaker 5: of how I got into the field, and then of
Speaker 5: course got into podcasting with DJ.
Speaker 4: Debs Well. I think I could say that I'm one
Speaker 4: of those people that has had anomalist experiences, including seeing
Speaker 4: an object in the sky a few times that I
Speaker 4: know what it was. Therefore it was unidentified, but not
Speaker 4: such a big deal to me. I thought that, you know,
Speaker 4: that's just part of nature. To me, I wasn't really
Speaker 4: blown away, and I kind of just let that be.
Speaker 4: But I've decided at some point in time that I
Speaker 4: was going to find out the answer of what was
Speaker 4: going on, and I read all of the toys that
Speaker 4: were available to the public. I was surprised by the
Speaker 4: way that a lot of people who do content on
Speaker 4: this were not reading them and were asking questions that
Speaker 4: showed that they were not reading them. But there's just
Speaker 4: so much information, so many documents that are available. And
Speaker 4: then I started reading some of the people who worked
Speaker 4: in programs like Blue Book, reading their books, reading other
Speaker 4: more modern people's books about this topic, and I just
Speaker 4: really wanted to have very open minded approach. But I
Speaker 4: also picked up few things along the way that were
Speaker 4: bothering me. One was that there was stigma about reporting
Speaker 4: about security in our skies. That made me insane, Like
Speaker 4: why would we not have already had a program in
Speaker 4: place related to this topic to relate it to drone
Speaker 4: counter drone efforts? Like that makes me insane that they
Speaker 4: just wrote that on December second of this year, and
Speaker 4: that there was any stigma ever for reporting something in
Speaker 4: our skies. And then the other issue was how experiencers
Speaker 4: were treated. When you do therapeutic work with people, you
Speaker 4: are not supposed to bring your bias and you are
Speaker 4: not supposed to make them feel awful for sharing their experience.
Speaker 4: But person after person was sharing with me that that
Speaker 4: was not what they experience. And I worked on that
Speaker 4: for a while. I did have some effort with that,
Speaker 4: trying to educate people about how you should treat someone
Speaker 4: when you're counseling them when they're bringing an experience to you.
Speaker 4: And yeah, so that's kind of my background. I get
Speaker 4: so upset about some of these things, like and and
Speaker 4: I have to say, like it just drives me up
Speaker 4: a wall that you could actually literally just replace the
Speaker 4: word UAP and every document that we've had with Drone
Speaker 4: and it's just like you see the games that get
Speaker 4: played with all of this information, like and if you
Speaker 4: if you pay attention, it's just fascinating actually sometimes how
Speaker 4: far it goes. But okay, Courtney, why don't you share
Speaker 4: hold on?
Speaker 1: I just want to answer in the chat. I don't
Speaker 1: want to let Michelle know so this this guy, this won't.
Speaker 1: We can't be as interactive with the chat tonight simply
Speaker 1: because I have four people here instead of just me
Speaker 1: or one other person. So we are going to get
Speaker 1: to your questions, Michelle. I see your question about the
Speaker 1: SUV size drone and I had starred yours, Deanna, I
Speaker 1: have yours starred as well. So we are going to
Speaker 1: get to your questions. But it's just going to take
Speaker 1: a little longer than it will when it's just me,
Speaker 1: you know, yapping up here. So miss Courtney man your
Speaker 1: entryway into the or, as Nathan says, you're on ramp
Speaker 1: into the top.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my on ramp was pretty world changing, you know,
Speaker 2: just very briefly. I was not into UFOs at all,
Speaker 2: you know, didn't even believe in them. I had heard
Speaker 2: this weird story about my dad and how when he
Speaker 2: was dating my mom early days in their relationship. He
Speaker 2: had something fly over his car with a light and
Speaker 2: he was in a corvet and his engine stopped, and
Speaker 2: I just I just thought it was weird, you know.
Speaker 2: And I even didn't believe in the story actually growing up.
Speaker 2: But it was in I was taking my daughter to
Speaker 2: college from Alaska. We drove down in my truck to
Speaker 2: Southern or University. We stopped in Montana along the way
Speaker 2: because I have a place there, and it was on
Speaker 2: the drive from Montana over to Oregon and these lights
Speaker 2: came down. It was a close encounter. They hovered over
Speaker 2: the truck, they flashed at us. I didn't know what
Speaker 2: was going on. I thought it was a military exercise.
Speaker 2: And then one light you know, came down right over
Speaker 2: right over us, and then it split into the lights
Speaker 2: split in two. And they were like it was the
Speaker 2: strangest thing. They were like intelligent, And so my story
Speaker 2: is very, very very strange, like a lot of people
Speaker 2: who have had close encounter contact and what ensued afterwards
Speaker 2: was just a bizarre series of events. And in the
Speaker 2: field of UFOs, for those of you who haven't been
Speaker 2: in the field, it's called high strangeness. So as I
Speaker 2: drove up the road, we experienced some visual perceptual things
Speaker 2: that were anomalous. There was a car in the middle
Speaker 2: of the road that was stopped with its lights and
Speaker 2: its door is open, and so I went to get
Speaker 2: out because I figured there's an accident, right, And so
Speaker 2: I went to get out to go and help whoever
Speaker 2: might be there if there was an automobile accident. And
Speaker 2: my daughter was in the passenger side, and she said, Mom,
Speaker 2: don't get out. She had a bad feeling. She said, please,
Speaker 2: don't get out, don't leave me. So I stopped there.
Speaker 2: But I was out on the road, and the strangest
Speaker 2: thing was that there was no sound whatsoever. There was
Speaker 2: nothing coming from the car. There was no people yelling
Speaker 2: help us, nothing like that. It was the strangest, eeriest quiet.
Speaker 2: It was like time stopped. It was like time had stopped.
Speaker 2: And I don't know how else to describe it. But
Speaker 2: I got back in the truck, I closed the door,
Speaker 2: I locked it, and I started to track the mile markers.
Speaker 2: So I called nine one one and we drove back.
Speaker 2: I didn't pass the car. I drove back the way
Speaker 2: that I came and went to a small town and
Speaker 2: called nine one one, and so that was my on
Speaker 2: ramp into this field. But the thing that has happened
Speaker 2: since is that after we had the lights and that
Speaker 2: strange experience, I end my both my daughter, we experience
Speaker 2: what's called after effects, so heightened psychic things happening, being
Speaker 2: able to have telepathy, I mean, just weird stuff. And
Speaker 2: I documented all of that, and I've become really like
Speaker 2: deb tried to help experiencers being able to share their
Speaker 2: voice and not be treated like Pariah's. Essentially, in a
Speaker 2: community where most people are doing this research kind of
Speaker 2: fall along certain lines. You're either nuts and bolts, you know,
Speaker 2: or you're a middle of the road person, or you're
Speaker 2: an experiencer that looks at it from a different personal level.
Speaker 2: So I try to carry all three of those lines
Speaker 2: of research, but it's not always easy. So that's kind
Speaker 2: of where I'm at now. And I do some lobbying,
Speaker 2: but I'm mostly an advocate for experiencers to share their voices.
Speaker 1: Hey, Corb, would you want to hit this question up
Speaker 1: real quick while we're on the topic of Courtney.
Speaker 2: After that experience, I felt very alone with because it
Speaker 2: was very, very very difficult to integrate a lot of
Speaker 2: the experiences that I was undergoing without any help. So
Speaker 2: it was a long period of time having these strange,
Speaker 2: anomalous experiences with my own personal perception. So I felt
Speaker 2: very alone with it. So I think that's why now
Speaker 2: I work in helping other people to be able to
Speaker 2: process it and especially communicate it so they're not so
Speaker 2: alone or isolated in the experience, because it can be very,
Speaker 2: very distressing.
Speaker 1: And so thank you, Court. I actually got to hear
Speaker 1: that on the phone at one point, so thank you
Speaker 1: for sharing. Right here, Deanna is saying that she's staying
Speaker 1: middle of the path on this one, and that's understandable, Deanna,
Speaker 1: because you don't know what these other people are seeing.
Speaker 1: You're not there. It's really really hard to judge from
Speaker 1: afar unless you see something on video that's irrefutable. I
Speaker 1: have seen videos like that. People have shared videos with
Speaker 1: me like that in private, and they freak you out.
Speaker 1: But let's get the rest of these. I want to
Speaker 1: I'm actually want to throw this one to Nathan if
Speaker 1: I can.
Speaker 5: Well, that's the million dollar question, right, yeah, but it's
Speaker 5: your your opinion, right, So you know, I was asked
Speaker 5: about this today too. From my brother, and you know,
Speaker 5: he said, what do you know? What do you think
Speaker 5: these things are? And and my answer to that was,
Speaker 5: I think it's a combination of things. I think that's
Speaker 5: the you know, we're talking about trying to maintain a
Speaker 5: little bit of a neutral position on this, and I
Speaker 5: think that's it's easy for those of us to do
Speaker 5: who are it's for those ones who haven't had a
Speaker 5: personal experience and who also aren't experiencing this phenomena right
Speaker 5: outside your window, right so I can I have a
Speaker 5: luxury of that distance to this experience that I can
Speaker 5: just sort of say, yeah, I'm gonna make I'm gonna
Speaker 5: take a neutral position on this because I don't have
Speaker 5: that close, you know, hand experience, both in the past
Speaker 5: and now. But I do think it's a combination of things.
Speaker 5: I think it's one, it's a lot of misidentification, and
Speaker 5: that's you know, you mentioned six thousand reports that's a
Speaker 5: common byproduct of just DJ. I love the way you
Speaker 5: put it. We went from looking at our phones all
Speaker 5: the time to looking at the nighttime sky. And I mean,
Speaker 5: I can tell you most of us don't know the
Speaker 5: names of the planets or the stars that are that
Speaker 5: are up there, myself included. And so if you actually
Speaker 5: start looking at the sky and you just don't make
Speaker 5: a habit of doing that, you're going to see all
Speaker 5: kinds of things that just you don't know what they are.
Speaker 5: You know, you're going to think that that is a drone.
Speaker 5: You're gonna think that's a UFO, and it's really just
Speaker 5: a really bright planetary object or star of some kind
Speaker 5: or starlink has another common one that people often reports
Speaker 5: as UFO. So I think there's a lot of misidentification
Speaker 5: and that's just a byproduct of the popularity of this
Speaker 5: sort of latest release flap. I think it's also some
Speaker 5: government activity. I think, you know, DJ rightly pointed out
Speaker 5: it would be ludicrous to think that we aren't putting
Speaker 5: something in the sky to try to figure out what
Speaker 5: these things are, whether they be fixed wing or helicopter
Speaker 5: or you know, you name it. We're probably putting a
Speaker 5: variety of things up there to try to get some
Speaker 5: additional intelligence about what these objects might be. So I
Speaker 5: think some of that is military. Now, I want to
Speaker 5: point out that there have been military bases, very you know,
Speaker 5: outspoken ones recently that have said that they've had this
Speaker 5: phenomenon and it wasn't their activity or any activity that
Speaker 5: they were aware of. And we've had official statements even
Speaker 5: saying that this is not federal government activity. So you know,
Speaker 5: what is the truth there? You know, I tend to
Speaker 5: want to side with the people that are giving us information,
Speaker 5: but I also have a lot of reasons to to
Speaker 5: second guess what they're saying, because I think their messaging
Speaker 5: has been really bad, and their history on messaging on
Speaker 5: this has been really bad, so it's difficult to take
Speaker 5: them at their word. But certainly there must be at
Speaker 5: least some of these objects must be h are our
Speaker 5: objects are are drones or whatever they may be. And
Speaker 5: then lastly, I think there is a good likelihood of
Speaker 5: just anomalous objects. You know, if you if you look
Speaker 5: at some of the videos that are there and some
Speaker 5: of the first hand witness accounts, and these are people
Speaker 5: that live either near these military bases, they live in
Speaker 5: flight paths, They're used to seeing planes all the time,
Speaker 5: and what they are reporting is something that isn't like
Speaker 5: those things, and they would know, they would you would
Speaker 5: you would recognize something that would be starkly different from
Speaker 5: something that you're accustomed to seeing and so these are
Speaker 5: people that I would consider to be reliable witnesses, and
Speaker 5: that these include people like police officers, news reporters, mayors.
Speaker 5: You know, these are people that have really tried to
Speaker 5: look at this and see what's going on, and they're
Speaker 5: coming back with reports that these things are really weird,
Speaker 5: including hovering over their homes, objects the size of SUVs.
Speaker 5: I mean, this is very strange behavior that that certainly
Speaker 5: wouldn't be normal behavior for a government agency or a
Speaker 5: hobbyist drone. You know, someone who's just to I picked
Speaker 5: up a DJI drone I'm throwing I'm flying it around
Speaker 5: for fun at night. Like it's it's difficult to fly
Speaker 5: a drone at night, as you mentioned DJ, if you
Speaker 5: don't have the right optical equipment or depth of experience.
Speaker 5: So just the fact that they're saying, oh, there's hundreds
Speaker 5: of hobbyist drones just flying around at night right now,
Speaker 5: I find that hard to believe. So you combine all
Speaker 5: of these things, including things like objects coming in from
Speaker 5: off the ocean right reports of that as well, and
Speaker 5: I think you have to at least entertain the idea
Speaker 5: that some of these objects are in fact anomalists unidentified
Speaker 5: anomalist phenomena or UAP or UFOs, and that's really where
Speaker 5: you know, we have a show here about UFOs and
Speaker 5: we like to talk about this stuff, and that we
Speaker 5: talked about frameworks at the beginning of the show, and
Speaker 5: we went with the prosaic framework to begin with, and
Speaker 5: that's the right place to start. It's the sort of
Speaker 5: level headed place to start with this conversation. But I
Speaker 5: also think it's important that we entertained in the other side,
Speaker 5: the other frameworks that that are that exists, and we
Speaker 5: get perspectives from people that might be viewing this from
Speaker 5: a very different paradigm, because we've, I think, for the
Speaker 5: longest time, we have ignored different perspectives. We have we
Speaker 5: have deferred and defaulted to the official government perspective on
Speaker 5: whatever something may be, and we've ignored and denigrated those
Speaker 5: who've had personal experiences with similar kinds of phenomena and
Speaker 5: and to to their detriment, Courtney has pointed that out
Speaker 5: very well. And so I really want to get some
Speaker 5: input from Courtney and deb from an experiencer's perspective, not
Speaker 5: only their own, and Courtney's account was a great example,
Speaker 5: but also experiencers that they are in contact with. What
Speaker 5: is the sentiment associated with this recent flap? And and Courtney,
Speaker 5: I remember you posted on X two about Chris Bledsoe,
Speaker 5: So that's a that's a great case example which I'm
Speaker 5: sure may not be familiar with. But what is the
Speaker 5: sentiment just generally, And I know it's hard to you know, approximate,
Speaker 5: but what is the sentiment of experiencers with with some
Speaker 5: of what this might be.
Speaker 2: I think that there is definitely a side of the
Speaker 2: spiritual community that believes this is kicking off like the
Speaker 2: next Awakening. There's no doubt that it's that it's anomalous,
Speaker 2: that it's warnings, that the fact that it's over all
Speaker 2: of our bases and nuclear sites, including in the UK
Speaker 2: now and they're in Germany over a base that this
Speaker 2: has historically been NHI warning us about our you know,
Speaker 2: engagements geopolitical stuff. So people who are not in the
Speaker 2: field might not have all that enrichment of the past
Speaker 2: of how UFOs show up over our military bases or
Speaker 2: over our nuclear sites, but they have. That seems to
Speaker 2: be a trend, including in Russia. So there's definite a
Speaker 2: sentiment in the experience of community that it's like this
Speaker 2: is like a prophetic level time where they're showing up
Speaker 2: as a warning for us to basically get right with ourselves.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's essentially what I heard yesterday, like we
Speaker 2: all need to get right with ourselves. I don't take
Speaker 2: that approach, but it's certainly the wave of experience or sentiment.
Speaker 2: I think most of these are drones. I think they're
Speaker 2: exactly what you know we're talking about, that they are drones.
Speaker 2: And I think after you've had an experience like I
Speaker 2: have at close range, where you see something that acts
Speaker 2: totally totally bizarre and it changes the way you think
Speaker 2: about things, and you go through that whole experience, I
Speaker 2: can say, honestly, the way I feel about it, I
Speaker 2: don't feel that sense of awakening or that this is
Speaker 2: the time, or that a lot of these prophecies are
Speaker 2: coming true right now. And I certainly don't feel either
Speaker 2: that there is some martial law or impending war coming either.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's the thing about being an
Speaker 2: experience er. When you live through something like that and
Speaker 2: you study it in research, you kind of get the
Speaker 2: sense to know what's bs and what's legitimate. Now I'm
Speaker 2: not saying the drones don't have anomalous characteristics to them,
Speaker 2: because I think that they do, but I think they're
Speaker 2: probably a small proportion, and I certainly don't feel like
Speaker 2: it's the end times.
Speaker 4: Well, I definitely have something to add to this. Okay,
Speaker 4: this is something that some people in the audience may
Speaker 4: not know about. This is something called the Phoenix Lights incident.
Speaker 4: So some years ago, I believe it was nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 4: a bunch of people, about seven hundred in I believe Nevada,
Speaker 4: saw a large triangle object flying over their home. They
Speaker 4: start calling in to their politician saying, hey, what's going on,
Speaker 4: like they're freaking out. Their governor goes on the air
Speaker 4: and makes a joke about it. And it turns out
Speaker 4: that as people were reporting this incident, the military decided
Speaker 4: to release flares. Weird, right, that just so happens that
Speaker 4: this is happening, And there were yeah, so weird. So
Speaker 4: this is not the first time that something potentially anomalous
Speaker 4: may have been also concealed by something prosaic. Okay, So
Speaker 4: the flares were a separate location and time than the
Speaker 4: object that was being reported, But when people took pictures,
Speaker 4: they took pictures of those flares, and that convoluted the
Speaker 4: information that was provided to the public. Later, the governor
Speaker 4: apologized and said, I actually saw the object too, and
Speaker 4: I was just telling the government line about what we're
Speaker 4: supposed to say to the public so that no one panics. However,
Speaker 4: his approach was considered offensive, and I don't think people
Speaker 4: ever really accepted his apology because he made a joke
Speaker 4: of the whole thing, even though he had seen it himself.
Speaker 4: So I just wanted to say, also to the question
Speaker 4: of why this might be happening, I did make a
Speaker 4: list of all the reasons for drone activity, so I'm
Speaker 4: just going to share because.
Speaker 1: That's what I do. I make notes.
Speaker 4: Okay, so these are the reasons for drones. One a
Speaker 4: payload and people hear about do you want to deliver packages?
Speaker 4: You know, drones have been used to drop off things.
Speaker 4: That's one of the concerns right now that these drones
Speaker 4: may actually drop something on people. Another reason is surveillance
Speaker 4: or recon which is not leaning towards our government explanation
Speaker 4: because we have satellites for that, we don't really need
Speaker 4: to use drones just sim photography. That might be why
Speaker 4: someone has a hobbyist drone. Another reason might be crowd control,
Speaker 4: so people internationally have been using them for crowd control.
Speaker 4: They also use some really bizarre things like giant holograms.
Speaker 4: I know no one's going to believe that, but they
Speaker 4: do for crowd control. And then of course they do
Speaker 4: have shows now with drones that tends to be something
Speaker 4: you see from China. And then last, but not least,
Speaker 4: military and the Pentagon in their press briefing, they'd admit,
Speaker 4: you know, this is just part of our modern day
Speaker 4: life now. And there was a photograph floating around of
Speaker 4: one of these drones that may have come down and
Speaker 4: it was huge, okay, And the comment on that was
Speaker 4: that is not a typical hobbyist drone. This is something
Speaker 4: A military drone is not going to be cheap. A
Speaker 4: six foot drone is not going to be cheap. That's
Speaker 4: going to be expensive. So I just wanted to say,
Speaker 4: those are the reasons I have found for a drone
Speaker 4: to be in the air.
Speaker 1: Thank you Love. Also, since he's here, I didn't know
Speaker 1: if this meeting would happen, but I was speaking with
Speaker 1: Scott McGuinness who's here in the chat, and I want
Speaker 1: Nathan to address this, but before I do, I just
Speaker 1: want to get Scott McGuinness is one of the standout warriors,
Speaker 1: one of the guys in Canton, one of the guys
Speaker 1: who shows up. He is a former prison guard official
Speaker 1: and multiple other roles in Massachusetts. He deals with sort
Speaker 1: of the rough housing that the Mcalberts try to play
Speaker 1: with the citizenry of Canton. He's not afraid of them.
Speaker 1: And so he asked this question, and we had about
Speaker 1: an hour and forty minute phone call and I said, oh,
Speaker 1: you know what, this this is a perfect question for Nathan.
Speaker 1: So Scott, I hope you haven't left the chat because
Speaker 1: Nathan is here. So Nathan, if you would address this one.
Speaker 5: Sure, Yeah, thanks for the comment, Scott. I mean, this
Speaker 5: is a it's a very interesting comment. I think a
Speaker 5: lot of people will identify with with with with Scott's
Speaker 5: reaction or on this kind of behavior. You know, this
Speaker 5: boils down to there's no mention of these kinds of
Speaker 5: objects in the Bible or maybe even other historical religious texts,
Speaker 5: and therefore that's not what they are, right, And uh,
Speaker 5: you know, I certainly can appreciate that perspective, and and
Speaker 5: I don't want to whatever I want to preface with
Speaker 5: whatever I'm going to say. I'm not trying to minimize
Speaker 5: anybody's beliefs. I think, you know, everybody should believe what
Speaker 5: they want to believe, what was most meaningful to them,
Speaker 5: and uh and I support that. But I do want to,
Speaker 5: you know, at least from my own, from my own perspective,
Speaker 5: I want to emphasize that we are and we I
Speaker 5: mean just human beings. We are culturally bound individuals. We
Speaker 5: look at experiences through a particular lens, and that lens
Speaker 5: is the time in which we find ourselves and is
Speaker 5: shaped by our personal experiences. It is shaped by the
Speaker 5: history that we've inherited, It is shaped by the climate
Speaker 5: and the culture that we find ourselves in, and all
Speaker 5: of those things form a context, a pair of glasses,
Speaker 5: if you will, that we put on to view experiences
Speaker 5: that we have in the world. And so those frameworks
Speaker 5: can be helpful. Right, You can have a good pair
Speaker 5: of glasses that help you navigate the world and you
Speaker 5: don't bump into things, you can read what you need
Speaker 5: to read. Or you can have a pair of glasses
Speaker 5: that may be a little bit fuzzy and you can
Speaker 5: still navigate the world, but you might not see very clearly.
Speaker 5: And I think where this often goes wrong is a
Speaker 5: lot of people, particularly today, take the perspective that their
Speaker 5: glasses are better than yours.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 5: It's a very I think, you know, snooty way of
Speaker 5: looking at at this and and what they miss, in
Speaker 5: my opinion, is that we are all doing this all
Speaker 5: the time.
Speaker 1: You know, all of us are.
Speaker 5: Guilty of this framework filtering of experience. And so to
Speaker 5: to take the position that you're an educated person and
Speaker 5: you you've come to a place where you understand you know,
Speaker 5: modern science or whatever it may be, and you therefore
Speaker 5: kind of thumb your nose up at people that have these,
Speaker 5: you know, outdated mythological perspectives on on you know, history
Speaker 5: and whatnot. I think that that that's that's missing the
Speaker 5: mark because all of us, and the way I think
Speaker 5: about this is from the standpoint of the of the future, right,
Speaker 5: all of us in the future. If you were to
Speaker 5: fast forward one hundred years from now and to look
Speaker 5: back to right now and look at the perspectives that
Speaker 5: we hold as human beings about the world, about reality,
Speaker 5: those future people will probably laugh at how we explain
Speaker 5: and conceive of what we call reality and normal and
Speaker 5: that's because knowledge changes, culture changes, all these things change,
Speaker 5: and that impacts our way of looking at the world.
Speaker 5: So this is a very long answer to your question,
Speaker 5: Scott or your comment, and mainly because this is my uh,
Speaker 5: this is my background, right, I'm trying to give folks
Speaker 5: a sense in which, you know, we have our knee
Speaker 5: jerk reaction to something and whatever whatever our first experience
Speaker 5: or interpretation that's the better word, whatever our first interpretation
Speaker 5: of an event is, is going to be closest to
Speaker 5: the experiences that are in our toolkit, right, and so
Speaker 5: we need to be able to hold those things but
Speaker 5: also examine them, right. And you know, I see your
Speaker 5: comment here, is that UFOs on an earth or Satanic
Speaker 5: or demons not little greed men. Again, it's the same.
Speaker 5: And you know, you and I would look at this
Speaker 5: from very very different perspectives, and I think that's something
Speaker 5: we can celebrate. But you know, I don't take the
Speaker 5: Bible as sort of a one and done factual account
Speaker 5: of what of what reality is. I think it's an
Speaker 5: evolving experience. I find that that can be valuable for people.
Speaker 5: So I support you in thinking that way. But you know,
Speaker 5: we have a very different perspective on what this is.
Speaker 5: And I think, you know, even our understanding of demons,
Speaker 5: for example, has evolved quite a lot. I don't mean
Speaker 5: involved in the sense of better. I'm just saying it
Speaker 5: has changed quite a lot from how demons are viewed
Speaker 5: in the Biblical times to how demons are viewed in
Speaker 5: the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, and even today. Demonology has
Speaker 5: changed quite a bit in that many, many hundred year
Speaker 5: period of time, and so we often are bringing more
Speaker 5: recent sort of demonological perspectives to these to these phenomena
Speaker 5: than than even the Bible actually has in the in
Speaker 5: its text. So we could spend like literally episodes on this.
Speaker 5: It's a very difficult question to answer, and I'm hesitant
Speaker 5: to answer these kinds of questions or to comment on
Speaker 5: it because these things are so very very personal.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 5: It is something that I just would caution that we,
Speaker 5: you know, we all be cognizant of the things that
Speaker 5: we bring to bear on interpretation, right, because because interpretation
Speaker 5: is very fallible, right, it's not something that we can
Speaker 5: take I think as literal as we all bring something
Speaker 5: to the experience that is unique to us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just to give you Nathan's background, because he's
Speaker 1: not one that's going to kind of like say his
Speaker 1: bona fides. But essentially he grew up as the son
Speaker 1: of a pastor. He himself was was a youth pastor,
Speaker 1: and he ended up getting his master's degree at a
Speaker 1: in divinity at a biblical college. So he's very, very
Speaker 1: knowledge of on the Bible, but has it sort of
Speaker 1: added a lot of other things into his view other
Speaker 1: than only the religious view that he grew up with
Speaker 1: and embraced and learned through his family, through the ministry itself,
Speaker 1: and through his formal education in that. So but like
Speaker 1: he said, there's not a wrong, it's just there's what
Speaker 1: he's offering you is other ways that you can look
Speaker 1: at this as opposed to just looking at it through
Speaker 1: one filter. But it's your choice. You get to choose.
Speaker 1: Tommy CPU has a question for me, believe it or not?
Speaker 1: Can you believe somebody in a question for me? Courtney,
Speaker 1: this is absurd ridiculous. So, but this will get into
Speaker 1: the part about how I got into this, which is
Speaker 1: a stitchback to Jess's early question question DJ as someone
Speaker 1: who's a flyboy and spends time in the air at
Speaker 1: forty thousand feet. Have you seen this unknown flying craft?
Speaker 1: You know what? Ironically, the planes I flew were low
Speaker 1: level planes, about twenty nine thousands, probably as I've ever
Speaker 1: been anyway. All that said, no, I didn't have any
Speaker 1: during my career. I did get to speak with another
Speaker 1: colleague of mine who flew a similar aircraft to mine
Speaker 1: that he flew the Combat Shadow, and he did have
Speaker 1: a sighting in Afghanistan. He and a pilot had a
Speaker 1: sighting in Afghanistan. So mine came as a young young man.
Speaker 1: I was fourteen or fifteen on my parents ranch and
Speaker 1: we had a very brief sighting of a multi colored
Speaker 1: silent craft coming overhead on a probably a late September
Speaker 1: early October night, and that was what made me and
Speaker 1: I really didn't think about it for years until David Fraverer,
Speaker 1: the Navy pilot, talked about his and then I said, well,
Speaker 1: I guess he can talk about his, I can talk
Speaker 1: about mine. I'm retired. I can do what I want.
Speaker 1: The other thing was, I think that's it. I think
Speaker 1: we can. We can press on with If anyone else
Speaker 1: has a question here, let me know if I've missed anything. Uh,
Speaker 1: and and I'll look a look at what Cleveland said.
Speaker 1: The only boy that could ever reach me was the
Speaker 1: son of a preacher, man Susan Cleveland. He's brilliant, She's
Speaker 1: in it. She's kind of like a Courtney in the Debs.
Speaker 1: He's an investigator, primarily on the Sandra Birchmore case, of
Speaker 1: which the Courtney's aware of this. Uh, the police officer
Speaker 1: who staged her suicide was arrested by the FBI a
Speaker 1: couple of months back. And she's also very knowledgeable on
Speaker 1: Karen Reid and all the other cases. But he's just
Speaker 1: like you two ladies, except that she's diving into people
Speaker 1: who have been the victim of injustice. So just like Beatrice.
Speaker 1: You see Beatrice in the chat here, she's kind of
Speaker 1: a cab known associate now and she has become uh,
Speaker 1: she has found her voice and become a victims add kid,
Speaker 1: especially for folks that don't have don't speak English, to
Speaker 1: have as many people in the family speak English. So anyway,
Speaker 1: whole bunch of people new friends for you guys to
Speaker 1: make here. So I'm sorry, please go on Nathan with
Speaker 1: wherever you wanted to go, or Dev's or Courtney.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do want to get I want to suspend
Speaker 5: some time on the different layers of this because it
Speaker 5: you know, I really struggle with this, and Courtney you've
Speaker 5: had more time, and Deab as well, but both of you.
Speaker 5: So I really want to get your perspective've had more
Speaker 5: time processing. We'll come back to that phenomenalous experiences, and
Speaker 5: I want to what I have witnessed in social media
Speaker 5: discourse is from people who have had these experiences, some
Speaker 5: of them, not all of them. Is there has been
Speaker 5: in a way, you know, from maybe a minority of them,
Speaker 5: even an amplification of this phenomena, and so in a
Speaker 5: quick association of it to well, this is X, you know,
Speaker 5: and Courtney you alluded to this. You know, this is
Speaker 5: the great Awakening, this is the shift, this is the
Speaker 5: age of Aquarius.
Speaker 1: They're on their way.
Speaker 5: This is catastrophic disclosure. You know, there's a lot of
Speaker 5: that sentiment floating around right now. And you know, I
Speaker 5: think that speaks to, at least for me, that that
Speaker 5: speaks to the very emotional connection that these these objects,
Speaker 5: whether they even be prosaic, but things that are doing
Speaker 5: things in the sky that are strange. The connection that
Speaker 5: that has with people who've had experiences that were so impactful,
Speaker 5: Like it's a very visceral connection, you feel it in
Speaker 5: your body, it's it's it's some people would call it
Speaker 5: a PTSD, right, So I'm curious what your perspective is
Speaker 5: on the experience or community, the spectrum of reaction to
Speaker 5: to this, and you know, I think you both have
Speaker 5: a different tack on it. So really be curious to
Speaker 5: what you think.
Speaker 2: Deb do you want to go first? Do you want
Speaker 2: me to go first?
Speaker 4: Well, I've you know, I'm not going to just talk
Speaker 4: about it from the experience or community. I'm going to
Speaker 4: talk about the full range for the whole world, because
Speaker 4: we're all kind of in the experience or community we
Speaker 4: experience life. I've noticed that some of this escalates because
Speaker 4: we are able to communicate more. There's a little bit
Speaker 4: more comfort and ease with exchanging stories. I've been spending
Speaker 4: an enormous amount of time listening to near death experiences lately,
Speaker 4: and the fact that there's just so many people coming
Speaker 4: forward and sharing their experiences really gives us a lot
Speaker 4: more data. Right, But the reaction to this particular occurrence,
Speaker 4: you know, there's there's like this this anticipation, this hope
Speaker 4: that things will finally be explained. So just because someone
Speaker 4: has experienced something anomalous does not mean that they have
Speaker 4: a grasp on what's going on. And there's always this
Speaker 4: seeking for more information, right, But that is not the
Speaker 4: reaction everyone is having. And I'm very concerned about some
Speaker 4: of the other reactions I'm seeing. I'm seeing the flip
Speaker 4: side saying there's nothing to see here, and it gets
Speaker 4: me all riled up again because I'm like, what do
Speaker 4: you mean if there's one drone, just one flying illegally
Speaker 4: over a base, which the Pentagon has confirmed has happened,
Speaker 4: and there's another case where a drone lands on our ship,
Speaker 4: you know, just one time, that is enough to not
Speaker 4: be brushing this off and saying there's nothing to see here.
Speaker 4: And I get so upset about this. But yes, so
Speaker 4: there we have a range. We have the anticipatory group
Speaker 4: where just like, please tell us what's going on. Then
Speaker 4: we have people are new to this topic, and then
Speaker 4: we have people all the way on the other side saying, oh,
Speaker 4: let's just brush this aside. This is ridiculous. I don't
Speaker 4: know why they do this, why they think it's ridiculous.
Speaker 4: To talk about our safety like it's so strange to me,
Speaker 4: it's almost more mystifying. But anyway, just so, yeah, there's
Speaker 4: a lot going on.
Speaker 1: I just want to add some context because a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't know. Courtney and Debs have interviewed people
Speaker 1: that have been on Navy ships that have seen full
Speaker 1: sized craft covering over the top of carriers and battleships
Speaker 1: and agues cruisers. Nathan myself Debs prior to when Courtney
Speaker 1: joined US, interviewed a director of Field operations of the CIA,
Speaker 1: one of the most clearly highly cleared individuals that you
Speaker 1: will ever see in this medium, talking about his experience
Speaker 1: in his bedroom with an entity that was not human
Speaker 1: and then reported that to his superiors at CIA. Just
Speaker 1: I just want to set the table for you guys
Speaker 1: on some of what's out there that is way more
Speaker 1: freaky than drums. So I'm sorry, go ahead, Courtney.
Speaker 2: Please, well, and let's not forget you know, the program
Speaker 2: just came out where you know, we're seeing lifelong legacy
Speaker 2: people who have been involved in programs and are still
Speaker 2: saying right now, we can't talk about it. Do you
Speaker 2: know there's nhi, Yes, but I can't talk about that,
Speaker 2: and you can just see the visual pains of these
Speaker 2: witnesses and individuals who've been in legacy programs most of
Speaker 2: their career.
Speaker 1: What's NHI real quick, Because you have an audience that.
Speaker 2: May not human intelligence, non human intelligence. So when you
Speaker 2: start to talk about the idea of non human intelligence
Speaker 2: and this being brought out right to the world very openly,
Speaker 2: a name for it, this is what it's called. You know,
Speaker 2: it's obvious that individu have had these experience, these contact
Speaker 2: experiences with non human intelligence. But I do think, and
Speaker 2: this is where I probably depart from a lot of
Speaker 2: the other awakening group, is that when you've been through
Speaker 2: that ontological shock, and it is a nontological shock, when
Speaker 2: you see something truly that you cannot explain and you
Speaker 2: have a close interaction with it and affects your life
Speaker 2: the way it does so profoundly, you go through a
Speaker 2: period of transition of integrating it and corporing it. Your
Speaker 2: belief systems change, right, And so for me, that was
Speaker 2: ten years ago, honest to goodness. So when I'm seeing
Speaker 2: a lot of the folks seeing the drones responding to
Speaker 2: the drones, that for me is just like, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is interesting because people are seeing things they're trying to
Speaker 2: think about them differently. But what I think is problematic
Speaker 2: in the core group of individuals, especially on X. Nathan.
Speaker 2: I'm just answering your question about you know X and
Speaker 2: the sociological part of this, because I do think it's fascinating.
Speaker 2: You have very clearly people who are interpreting other people's
Speaker 2: experiencing and saying this is what is happening now, And
Speaker 2: I think that's actually one of the worst things you
Speaker 2: can do to an experiencer, because you're labeling what their reality,
Speaker 2: what their experience is it is. And I have come
Speaker 2: into the field going in myself and my own personal
Speaker 2: mission for doing my research, not ever knowing. I've never
Speaker 2: felt that I would ever figure out whatever it was
Speaker 2: that my daughter and I encountered in Oregon that night.
Speaker 2: And I've had a lot of people say that, are
Speaker 2: you feel like you're ever going to get to a
Speaker 2: point with it? No, I don't, so I kind of
Speaker 2: take a counter approach of ever feeling like that's going
Speaker 2: to be resolved. But I agree one hundred percent with
Speaker 2: what deb is saying that there's so many people searching
Speaker 2: for what that experience is people are interpreting it, trying
Speaker 2: to tell them what it is, and that's one of
Speaker 2: the big metaparts of all of this. That creates a
Speaker 2: lot of cognitive dissonance, and I think that's why we
Speaker 2: see such reactionary projections about this being the event. But
Speaker 2: similar to other times in the past, like the Mayancal
Speaker 2: and other things, I think it's going to pass, and
Speaker 2: I think we're going to be exactly where we were
Speaker 2: before the drone situation happened, going what was that? Why
Speaker 2: was our government not aware? Why was this messaging, you know,
Speaker 2: so conflictual? Why was aeronaut involved. So I'm a bit
Speaker 2: of a pessimist or maybe a pragmatist, I think in
Speaker 2: that regard.
Speaker 1: Pragmatist pragmatist.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm more of a pragmatic person, thinking
Speaker 2: that we're going to pass through this and we're going
Speaker 2: to have a lot of questions, and there's probably going
Speaker 2: to be a law against drones that comes out, you
Speaker 2: know that you know, you have to have a certain
Speaker 2: type of digital tracking system or whatever, just so that
Speaker 2: this doesn't happen again. But I still, like I said,
Speaker 2: I still think there's not something anomalous within all of it.
Speaker 4: I just don't know what if they have to put
Speaker 4: license plates on their drone.
Speaker 1: Well there is there was guy talking about the other
Speaker 1: night that there's he logged into a certain app and
Speaker 1: because of the time of night or something, it would
Speaker 1: allow him to launch the drone. He got a red light.
Speaker 1: I can look into those protocols because Sarah is already
Speaker 1: calling for a part two of this, so I will
Speaker 1: do some research on what the FAA has put in
Speaker 1: place in terms of the drones, that what those protocols are.
Speaker 1: But I was wondering from a fellow investigator, a sister
Speaker 1: of your Suvann Cleveland, if you could just read this
Speaker 1: one and react. Court.
Speaker 2: I'm a twenty four to seven learner, seeking seeker of
Speaker 2: safety and answers because PTSD and it can be draining,
Speaker 2: so I empathize with the avoidance.
Speaker 1: I think talking about Twitter.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well, I think Twitter is so toxic and
Speaker 2: so many of us have experienced the high level stress
Speaker 2: just being engaged on it and the onslaught of vitriol
Speaker 2: that comes towards you, one as a researcher just being
Speaker 2: in the field, two being an experience er. Somehow there
Speaker 2: is some level of personal people get personal about it,
Speaker 2: you know, and challenging. So I think with X, it's
Speaker 2: totally healthy to be avoided, don't wouldn't you guys all
Speaker 2: feel I mean, it's good to take a break from
Speaker 2: it and not be engaged. Is that fair?
Speaker 5: Boundaries or boundaries are healthy?
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, I'm pretty minimal on there now.
Speaker 5: And look, I'm a huge proponent of real life relationships.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 5: So these are you know, my co hosts. Here are
Speaker 5: people that that I know and we have conversations and
Speaker 5: they're not anonymous people, uh that I know who deb
Speaker 5: is and those you may appear to be a little
Speaker 5: bit anonymous to you guys, but you know, we have relationships.
Speaker 5: And I think that that's critically important. And we live
Speaker 5: in a time where the easy relationships are are a
Speaker 5: little bit more shallow, right And and if you're if
Speaker 5: you if you're surrounded by shallow relationships, then you're really
Speaker 5: going to have You're going to lack of depth of experience,
Speaker 5: you know, a depth of relationship with people. And I
Speaker 5: think that we need that we need that complex relationship.
Speaker 5: If we lose touch with the complexity of human relationship,
Speaker 5: then we we lose our ability to connect because because
Speaker 5: everything has to be surface level, you know, we don't
Speaker 5: we don't allow people to have complicated perspectives that they
Speaker 5: either yeah, you have to choose you're either right here
Speaker 5: on this level with me, or you don't exist right
Speaker 5: And I think that that that's kind of where we've
Speaker 5: gotten to as a as a country and really as
Speaker 5: in a world, and uh, you know, getting real relationships
Speaker 5: I think is a is a sort of antidote to
Speaker 5: that situation. But to Courtney's comment, I want to get
Speaker 5: your you know you away and here DJ, because you
Speaker 5: mentioned this earlier about David Fraber. You know, one byproduct
Speaker 5: of this activity potentially could be more folks who who
Speaker 5: have seen things in the sky, pilots, et cetera, being
Speaker 5: more willing to talk about them. You know, there is
Speaker 5: certainly that element of this that we are talking about
Speaker 5: this in a lot of places now in the media,
Speaker 5: and they're asking more pointed questions to the Pentagon and
Speaker 5: to the White House. This is a sign, in my opinion,
Speaker 5: that the culture is at a place where we are
Speaker 5: more open to having these conversations. I don't know that
Speaker 5: we're necessarily at a place where we're having them in
Speaker 5: the right you know, kind of framework. But we're at
Speaker 5: least being more comfortable sharing the experiences, which is a
Speaker 5: huge step, in my opinion, to getting where we probably
Speaker 5: need to go in order for more people to be
Speaker 5: prepared for what this might mean. So, DJ, I wonder
Speaker 5: if you could speak to that, you know, this kind
Speaker 5: of cascading effect of just sort of people being willing
Speaker 5: to share.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I call friends of mine that are
Speaker 1: retired O six colonels and I'm willing to have a
Speaker 1: discussion with them about it. You remember Jeff, my Seal
Speaker 1: team friend. We had discussions. So I've had a lot
Speaker 1: of discussions that I'm not embarrassed anymore to do it.
Speaker 1: And I wonder if you guys can tell me the
Speaker 1: name of Ben from Discovery Channel. Quick, remember Ben, the
Speaker 1: guy who hosts the show Hanson. Yeah, so Ben Hansen
Speaker 1: from Discovery Channel. He has the gravitas of not only
Speaker 1: being a television personality, but he was also a former
Speaker 1: FBI agent. He's also a commercially rated pilot. So when
Speaker 1: Ben Hansen calls a pilot and they can look him
Speaker 1: up on LinkedIn and see who he is, and he's saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd really like to share your story because I believe
Speaker 1: in what you're saying. This is huge, this is on,
Speaker 1: this is unprecedented. I mean in our history, you know,
Speaker 1: in human history that we didn't talk about these things.
Speaker 1: Because even when the Japanese pilot that Courtney alluded to before,
Speaker 1: that guy was grounded after he discussed it from nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty four. And I want to tell you guys, you
Speaker 1: can hear the audio out there, the FAA audio. You
Speaker 1: can't see video obviously it's nineteen eighty four and they
Speaker 1: didn't have you know, cameras and then you know VHS
Speaker 1: cameras in the cockpit at that point. But those guys
Speaker 1: from JL saw a huge like what was it like
Speaker 1: aircraft carrier size or it's like.
Speaker 2: Ahead, Yeah, it was massive. It was a mass, massive
Speaker 2: effect with lights green lights, I believe it. They were green, yep.
Speaker 1: And and the so FAA's tracking it. They see it
Speaker 1: on radar, so they're painting it, which is good. So
Speaker 1: you know, it's a metallic object that they can paint
Speaker 1: with the spectrum that radar's in. And when they made
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty degree turns, this thing was following
Speaker 1: them and they you know, it blocked them for a while.
Speaker 1: It didn't prevent that. I shouldn't say it blocked them.
Speaker 1: It kept station with them in front of them, if
Speaker 1: you will, because if I say it blocked them, that
Speaker 1: would have meant they were getting closer. It was keeping
Speaker 1: station with them. So yeah, so now people will talk
Speaker 1: about it. We also mentioned we've got to mention Ryan
Speaker 1: Graves and uh the is it Americans for Save.
Speaker 2: Air Space Aerospace ASA?
Speaker 1: Okay, Americans for Save Air Space? Right Navy pilot who
Speaker 1: was part of the twenty fifteen group off the coast
Speaker 1: of Virginia that had their sightings in this Alpha seventy
Speaker 1: two working area off of Virginia Beach. He said they
Speaker 1: had sightings of a cube inside a sphere that was
Speaker 1: for a year that people were seeing this out and
Speaker 1: there were noems in their daily read Before you go fly,
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna go read the read file and
Speaker 1: look at what the nodems are, and it was in
Speaker 1: their read file. Hey, you might see these in Alpha
Speaker 1: seventy two, so you know, just be aware seeing a
Speaker 1: void all that kind of stuff. So yeah, people are
Speaker 1: a lot more comfortable talking about it. But before we
Speaker 1: go any further, we got to say thanks to a
Speaker 1: new member of ours, Kelly STEFFI thank you, home girl,
Speaker 1: Canna get a mud So Kelly and her question, Nathan,
Speaker 1: if you had you to take get into that, please sure?
Speaker 1: Or actually or debts if she hasn't read in Wild Debts, Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: please God.
Speaker 4: I also think people are very and tired in some
Speaker 4: ways of the different explanations for so many things, if
Speaker 4: that makes sense, And I agree absolutely, And I actually
Speaker 4: was going to provide a historic perspective that answers sort
Speaker 4: of what you were talking about. So the initial sightings
Speaker 4: were called flying shields in Roman times, at least this
Speaker 4: is what was written. Right. There are religions based off
Speaker 4: of encounters and sightings. Some of those religions could have
Speaker 4: been related to meteors that fell or you know, straite whatever.
Speaker 4: I'm not into those, so I don't know that much
Speaker 4: about them. But those sightings were what people talked about
Speaker 4: and created religions from, not all of them, just you know,
Speaker 4: some of them. And then the conversations went into something
Speaker 4: called airships in about the eighteen hundreds, and it actually
Speaker 4: was quite a wave of sightings, and that was before
Speaker 4: airships were really a thing in the United States. Then
Speaker 4: there were conversations about rockets. That was the language that
Speaker 4: was used, and then we had the term flying saucer,
Speaker 4: which was incorrect, by the way, because the initial major
Speaker 4: sighting that got reported, which was not the first, but
Speaker 4: it was stated that the object was moving like a
Speaker 4: saucer across the water, and then flying saucers the craze.
Speaker 4: The language keeps changing, but people find new ways to
Speaker 4: talk about it, is my point. And I'm just going
Speaker 4: to have to bring this back to drones. But wow,
Speaker 4: isn't it convenient that now all those pilots can say, hey,
Speaker 4: is this large round object next to my ship? Possibly
Speaker 4: a drone?
Speaker 2: Well, and I think biomimicry we need to talk about that.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to go into it in great detail,
Speaker 2: but a lot of people describe these craft that morphin
Speaker 2: shift depending on you know, their environment or what's in
Speaker 2: the sky, and they can look like strange helicopters with
Speaker 2: no markings, birds, you know, all kinds of different planes
Speaker 2: and so Calm Kaliher talks about biomimicry a lot in
Speaker 2: different populations who have had, you know, sightings and then
Speaker 2: they've been verified and he's done some work on that.
Speaker 2: So I think that's another thing that we're going to
Speaker 2: be talking about in the future more with regard to
Speaker 2: this topic biomemicry and what that is and how it
Speaker 2: shows up, and maybe we'll get more data or even
Speaker 2: some classes on it, you know, in some of these
Speaker 2: organizations that are doing research and education to help people
Speaker 2: understand what biomemicry is. It's a fascinating topic.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you. We got some smart people up in here.
Speaker 1: Y'all are like man cav got a lot smarter when
Speaker 1: DJ brought on the other Chavians. And yes, you're right,
Speaker 1: that's correct. That was by design. Yeah, and Scott probably
Speaker 1: may or may not be aware one and these everybody
Speaker 1: I can get head nods. The Vatican has one of
Speaker 1: the biggest collection of UFO information and data that's out
Speaker 1: there that is sealed and various. Only certain people have
Speaker 1: access to it. Doctor Diana Pisolka, who is a theologian,
Speaker 1: and I believe it's NC Charlotte No NCT and UNC Wilmington.
Speaker 1: She is one of the PhDs. She's a religious professor
Speaker 1: of religion, and she has access to the archives at
Speaker 1: the Vatican and and their collection of UFO information because
Speaker 1: they are very much into astronomy at the Vatican. I
Speaker 1: think we had one other question here that's really so
Speaker 1: Nathan mm hmm.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I mean that's if you question Nathan, Well,
Speaker 5: I love this question, right because it's a simple question,
Speaker 5: but there is a lot to unpack. And the first
Speaker 5: thing that I want to kind of focus on is
Speaker 5: this notion of technology. Right, You've heard my co host
Speaker 5: talk about sightings in history and how those sightings have
Speaker 5: been explained in the sort of context of familiar objects
Speaker 5: at the time. So you you know, even Scott mentioned
Speaker 5: in his comment the chariots of the gods. You've got
Speaker 5: shields in the sky, You've got you know, angels, angelic beings.
Speaker 5: You know, there are all kinds of different associations to
Speaker 5: things that are in the sky that kind of fit
Speaker 5: very neatly and nicely with that the technological kind of
Speaker 5: advancements or or norms of the day. You know, airships
Speaker 5: was a big thing in the late eighteen hundreds, these
Speaker 5: airships that would be seen in the skies, blimps in
Speaker 5: other words. And so the point being that, you know,
Speaker 5: we look at this stuff and we we kind of
Speaker 5: immediately jump to technology. Why because it takes our technology
Speaker 5: to do any you know, things that might be remotely
Speaker 5: similar to what these things can do. You know, for
Speaker 5: us to defy gravity, we have to have, you know, technology,
Speaker 5: for us to project something into the sky, we have
Speaker 5: to have technology. And so we look at Phenomenmannah from
Speaker 5: a technological lens, from a lens of engineering and science
Speaker 5: and know how, and so then we map that experience
Speaker 5: onto what the phenomena is. And it may not actually
Speaker 5: be technological, right, it may be biological. It's just something
Speaker 5: that is part of nature, that that that can happen
Speaker 5: on its own through other forms of life and the
Speaker 5: way in which they behave with the environment. Other aspects
Speaker 5: of that could be you know, we haven't touched on it.
Speaker 5: But the interdimensional component, right, so these could be higher
Speaker 5: dimensional beings that in our three dimensional experience that this
Speaker 5: is what they look like, but in a higher dimension
Speaker 5: they are far more complicated, and so it looks like
Speaker 5: technology to us, but to them it's just you know,
Speaker 5: how they interact with reality. So it's it's a great question.
Speaker 5: I don't have an answer for you, and I think
Speaker 5: that that's the frustrating part. You know, it's give you
Speaker 5: a quick answer, but you know.
Speaker 1: I think it is.
Speaker 5: It points to this notion that we've all kind of
Speaker 5: hinted that here in this conversation, that we don't have
Speaker 5: easy answers. And I think it's important for us to
Speaker 5: avoid jumping to easy answers, because any of us will
Speaker 5: tell you who we've all looked at this a lot,
Speaker 5: but probably too much to an unhealthy degree in some situations. Right,
Speaker 5: I certainly have. But if you do it long enough,
Speaker 5: you realize that this stuff is super strange and it
Speaker 5: defies conventional explanation, and for us to try to box
Speaker 5: it in into a specific explanation I think is dangerous.
Speaker 5: You know, Courtney kind of alluded to that earlier. It's
Speaker 5: dangerous to do that. We need to instead, I think,
Speaker 5: keep an open mind about what this might be and
Speaker 5: be comfortable with that, be comfortable with not uncertainty uncertainty,
Speaker 5: Right and DJ, you talked about that all the time,
Speaker 5: like we just you know, to force ourselves into having
Speaker 5: it all figured out, I think is just unhealthy for
Speaker 5: life experience, but particularly when it comes to phenomenological experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I just want to share this real quick
Speaker 1: so that people can get a sense. So there's doctor
Speaker 1: Pisolca and if you go to full screen on your
Speaker 1: and we've had her on Calling All Beings twice. We've
Speaker 1: been blessed to have more PhDs on than I can
Speaker 1: name like right away, but she is one of the
Speaker 1: first ones I think that we had. But the reason
Speaker 1: that I bring her up is is because Nathan's gonna
Speaker 1: be upset because I'm gonna task him again. But see
Speaker 1: in terms of looking at the phenomenon and applying a
Speaker 1: name to them, like angel demon Nathan real quick, if
Speaker 1: you can discuss what now, Doctor Pisolca again is not
Speaker 1: only a practicing Catholic, but she has a PhD in
Speaker 1: Religious studies, so and she's a practicing Catholic. She's not
Speaker 1: just an academian that talks about religion to her classes.
Speaker 1: She's a practicing Catholic and has been for her whole life.
Speaker 1: And if you would just share what she says when
Speaker 1: people when ancients talked about angels and how that actually
Speaker 1: could be what what we talk about, like with a
Speaker 1: gray is that they needed to apply a name to it,
Speaker 1: and so they used a name that they knew. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is.
Speaker 5: It kind of ties in with what I talked about
Speaker 5: earlier on the show. That's that we bring to bear
Speaker 5: on these experiences are our frameworks, and and she's very
Speaker 5: good about about pointing that out, both in historical text
Speaker 5: but also even in modern media, how the how modern
Speaker 5: media influences our interpretation of phenomenological experiences. You know, the
Speaker 5: movies that you have seen growing up close, encounters of
Speaker 5: the third kind, you know, aliens in Independence day, you know,
Speaker 5: all the these things began kind of getting entangled with
Speaker 5: your own way of looking at the world, and that
Speaker 5: that what comes out of that is a little bit
Speaker 5: of a hodgepodge of of of meaning making that is
Speaker 5: dictated by those, uh, you know, fictional accounts.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 5: So it's it's it's it's a mix. But I want
Speaker 5: to I want to because we're talking about angels. We
Speaker 5: did talk about demons earlier. I do want to point
Speaker 5: out that, you know, there's an energetic component to the phenomena.
Speaker 5: And we've maybe barely touched on this, but but you know,
Speaker 5: there are energetic aspects of phenomenological experience that that fall
Speaker 5: into these cookie cutter buckets of angelic and demonic, right,
Speaker 5: And so I think it's okay in some ways to
Speaker 5: think of them from that perspective because a reaction to
Speaker 5: the phenomena in some instances, and you hear this from
Speaker 5: experiences whove had first hand experience of beings can often
Speaker 5: be that, oh, these were beings of light, they were benevolent,
Speaker 5: they were nothing but you know, light and love. Or
Speaker 5: I was absolutely terrified. They tormented me, I was abducted,
Speaker 5: I was I was experimented on. You know, these two
Speaker 5: experiences are seem on face to be completely at odds,
Speaker 5: at opposition, but they have energetic aspects that we would
Speaker 5: maybe want to label as angelic or demonic. And I
Speaker 5: think those classifications are are okay, but maybe not the
Speaker 5: final place to land. There are good maps that they're
Speaker 5: not the territory.
Speaker 1: And she also talked about from a characteristic standpoint that
Speaker 1: when she saw them performing certain things, you know, performing
Speaker 1: physical actions, you know, where they would float or do something,
Speaker 1: and she believes that they may have labeled them as
Speaker 1: something that you know, they used the name angel, but
Speaker 1: she believes does I'm not saying I believe this or disbelieved,
Speaker 1: because I don't really have a you know, I'm just
Speaker 1: listening to her say it, but she believes that they
Speaker 1: what they were looking at may have been in non
Speaker 1: human intelligence, and that is what they used, something that
Speaker 1: they knew, and they referred to it as angels. We
Speaker 1: can give you another example. Uh. Debs has talked about
Speaker 1: this one Christopher Columbus Ray Debs talking about is it
Speaker 1: was it candles going into and out of the water
Speaker 1: or something like that.
Speaker 4: That was the term he used in his journal throwing
Speaker 4: his travel mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Right, So so this is it's it's it's associative in nature.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know what a light is because
Speaker 1: lights haven't been invented yet, but I do know candles,
Speaker 1: and so something that was bright going into or coming
Speaker 1: out of the ocean he described in his ship's log.
Speaker 1: For the Romans, what they were able to associate was
Speaker 1: something that was the state. This the shape of their shields, uh,
Speaker 1: that were flying through the air. So they called it
Speaker 1: flaming shields. And we have had people here talk about, oh,
Speaker 1: well I saw a bright plasma dripping off of these craft?
Speaker 1: How many how many of those have have Courtney in Debs?
Speaker 1: You know of those have they heard written about or
Speaker 1: been been told about.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to bring this up too, Sorry to
Speaker 2: break in on you. I thought maybe you did.
Speaker 1: You want to please please, ma'am.
Speaker 2: One of the papers that Diana wrote that brought her,
Speaker 2: I think, attention and into the field was her paper
Speaker 2: about that one effect. Do you remember? It was a
Speaker 2: technological effect. I was just looking at an on scholar
Speaker 2: trying to find it for the audience. What do you
Speaker 2: guys remember what the name of it was? It was
Speaker 2: a certain effect she wrote. It was one of her
Speaker 2: earlier papers, and that's what people got interested in, and
Speaker 2: that was really her segue into our community. It was
Speaker 2: a it was an effect that was about media and
Speaker 2: how it influences your perception and synchronous cities and all
Speaker 2: these other things being tied into it. Do you remember,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to find it?
Speaker 5: Definitely goes into that in American Cosmic. That was the
Speaker 5: book that really I think put her on the map.
Speaker 5: I know she may have written earlier papers about it
Speaker 5: as well, but she does touch on that in American Cosmic,
Speaker 5: which I would highly recommend people pick up.
Speaker 2: She doesn't she names the paper too. So I'm going
Speaker 2: to go in and find it. I'm going to find
Speaker 2: it before we leave.
Speaker 1: Awesome, ye yeah, Dweling. We got about five minutes left debs.
Speaker 1: Can you take this one?
Speaker 4: Is the US seeing most of these drones? Well, okay,
Speaker 4: so I just want to say one of the issues
Speaker 4: that we're dealing with is that the US is not
Speaker 4: agreeing on who is supposed to be watching these drones.
Speaker 4: So they mentioned that certain divisions like the FBI and
Speaker 4: Homeland Security are supposed to be taking care of the
Speaker 4: drones over the United States, and as we know, the
Speaker 4: FBI is investigating. But they also recently revealed that they
Speaker 4: are trying to supply the bases with drone sensing technology.
Speaker 4: And I don't know that I think it's just because
Speaker 4: of this one instance, because again, they wrote up this
Speaker 4: thing on December second, and this is by far not
Speaker 4: the first time this has.
Speaker 2: Happened, like, not even close.
Speaker 4: So so in addition to Homeland and the FBI working
Speaker 4: on getting eyes on this, the bases will have what
Speaker 4: they need to get their eyes on these drones. However,
Speaker 4: as far as the DoD is concerned, they're only interested
Speaker 4: in what's happening in the military side, and internationally is
Speaker 4: where they tend to put their eyes and they are
Speaker 4: aware of drones significantly internationally. So yeah, I'm sorry, that's
Speaker 4: not a queer answer. But those are the eyes on it,
Speaker 4: so to speak. And the police, of course, are trying
Speaker 4: to use their own drones, and we've seen footage and
Speaker 4: stuff from them attempting to document what's going on. And
Speaker 4: there's been tons of eyewitness testimony and that includes from mayors,
Speaker 4: as we have heard, all of the mayors in New
Speaker 4: Jersey have met together to talk about this, which is
Speaker 4: probably a historic thing. Imagine that's what's written in the
Speaker 4: history book. You know, all the mayors came to talk
Speaker 4: about unknown objects flying over their skies.
Speaker 2: Yay.
Speaker 4: So a lot of eyewitness visuals on it from really
Speaker 4: reliable sources.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think though the crux of her question was
Speaker 1: it's not only a US thing. I think that you
Speaker 1: correct me if I was wrong about that. But I
Speaker 1: think that was the crux of it, and it's not
Speaker 1: just a US thing, it's totally not there have been seen.
Speaker 1: And that was Lulu. I believe that they asked that question.
Speaker 1: I think Lulu is Lisa, who I've just gotten to
Speaker 1: speak with, because I think Louli's in Massachusetts. But yet
Speaker 1: a couple of days ago, I got a call from
Speaker 1: another one of our listeners from New Jersey that was
Speaker 1: seeing him at her house. I think I told I
Speaker 1: may have told Nathan about that. So yeah, she has
Speaker 1: seen them and some of the characteristics seemed anomalous to me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so its more seeing. There's also reports about the sounds,
Speaker 4: like they're not just hearing plane sounds.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: Someone doing a newscast and interviewing about it said that
Speaker 4: that sounded like a motorcycle was over their house and
Speaker 4: it was very scary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. It is odd to hear a V
Speaker 1: Twin Harley sounding above your house. But we're going to
Speaker 1: wrap it up. So if anybody has a last question
Speaker 1: or not otherwise, get you know, last Cabby Cabby's last thoughts.
Speaker 2: Yes, I found it in my files and in my
Speaker 2: old files. I actually didn't find it by searching it
Speaker 2: in the book or Google scholar. But it's called the
Speaker 2: Spectrum of Human Techno Hybridity, hybriddity.
Speaker 1: The total hybridity.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, the total recall effect. That's what I remember.
Speaker 2: The total recall effect is the thing that I remember
Speaker 2: that she wrote that you know, people were interested in
Speaker 2: that led to introductions and books and other things. So
Speaker 2: the total recall effect. I'm happy I found it. I
Speaker 2: always feel good when I find it.
Speaker 1: That makes that would have bugged me.
Speaker 5: Too, right.
Speaker 4: I wanted to comment if I can, on what has
Speaker 4: just said about her concerns with demons. So I know
Speaker 4: that Nathan is by far the greater expert on this,
Speaker 4: but I have gone down the research path on this
Speaker 4: because I was considering writing a book and I just
Speaker 4: sort of put it on pause, unfortunately. But one of
Speaker 4: the things I looked at was demons, and I discovered,
Speaker 4: to my surprise, that there was no one single devil.
Speaker 4: For instance, there were about twenty different entities that were
Speaker 4: described as being the devil, but they had different names.
Speaker 4: And the more I looked into it, I found out
Speaker 4: like even gods were actually equated to demons at one point,
Speaker 4: the like mythological gods. So our idea of demons really
Speaker 4: stems from religion, but historically that idea has changed over
Speaker 4: the centuries. And the gin, for instance, is another term
Speaker 4: that's some as to the concept of a demon, but
Speaker 4: they're more like a gremlin or a trickster, and if
Speaker 4: you look into religions, there are trickster gods there too,
Speaker 4: So it's like question mark about what is demon really like?
Speaker 4: What is that Is it just something that's a little
Speaker 4: bit more mischievous. Is there a real evil?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 4: Is it just in entities?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 4: The humanity has so much evil?
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: And speaking of non human intelligence, you guys forgot to
Speaker 4: mention that example. God, Okay, sorry I had to say that.
Speaker 1: All right, all right, thank you. Deb's Deb will always
Speaker 1: throw grenade in the end of the show. I love
Speaker 1: it because she Yeah, it's not going to end peacefully.
Speaker 1: But I got one from classic Clippy that I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to address here, and then you
Speaker 1: guys feel free to weigh in on this after, you know,
Speaker 1: because you guys may have a different opinion of this thing,
Speaker 1: and I do.
Speaker 2: So I think that's one of the fascinating things, don't
Speaker 2: you DJ the SUV drone.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I'm going to I'm going to try to
Speaker 1: tackle this, so classic Clippy kind of what I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about here is, first of all, what altitude are we
Speaker 1: talking about? If we are talking about an altitude where
Speaker 1: someone walks out of their home and they're seeing something
Speaker 1: that is in the hundreds of feet, so a thousand
Speaker 1: or less above their home, and in some cases, you know,
Speaker 1: even closer than that and the lower hundreds of feet
Speaker 1: like five hundred or less, and they're seeing something that
Speaker 1: appears to be SUV size. So the first question I'm
Speaker 1: going to ask at that altitude is am I hearing
Speaker 1: the sound of mechanical propulsion? And you've heard luel Zando
Speaker 1: talking about that. So what I mean by that is
Speaker 1: do I have propellers or do I have some sort
Speaker 1: of a gas turbine also called a jet engine that
Speaker 1: is powering that? If I'm not hearing that? So what
Speaker 1: Chante is saying here? And thank you for your incredible
Speaker 1: contributions tonight, Chante. Then, and I'm going to go back
Speaker 1: to what you said right here. I want to put
Speaker 1: your comment up there. Classic. I'm thinking that's anomalous if
Speaker 1: I see that. I'm also looking at shapes. We have
Speaker 1: geometric shapes that we hear. We hear cylindrical, we hear rectangular.
Speaker 1: Everybody here and maybe not most of you in the
Speaker 1: chat have seen Jeremy Corbell's pyramidle gate not triangle, but
Speaker 1: three dimensional pyramidle gaped green objects hovering off the USS
Speaker 1: Russell within a bank of clouds. But you can clearly
Speaker 1: see a flashing triumid a pyramid. So we're talking cylinders,
Speaker 1: we're talking rectangles that are three dimensional rectangles like a box.
Speaker 1: We are talking pyramids. What I can tell you from
Speaker 1: an aerospace perspective is those shapes don't fly as we
Speaker 1: as we would would describe that. They don't follow Bernoulli's
Speaker 1: theorem of being able to use a wing form to
Speaker 1: create lift. And when you have a rotary wing asset
Speaker 1: like a drone or a helicopter, then the wing form
Speaker 1: are actually those rotor blades. Those are wings that you
Speaker 1: see spinning in the air, and they just in and
Speaker 1: of themselves will create lift. What a helicopter or a
Speaker 1: drone is able to do is when they pull on
Speaker 1: the collective even though that let's picture. We have a
Speaker 1: wing here where it's fatter at the front at the
Speaker 1: front and then thin at the rear, and its shaped
Speaker 1: like a tear drop. What you would be looking at
Speaker 1: a tear drop right here. I'm sorry, I from getting
Speaker 1: my hand. You should be looking at a tear drop.
Speaker 1: Putting that through the air and slightly flatter on the
Speaker 1: bottom will create lift. But what they do is they
Speaker 1: angle those blades down to bite more air. That is
Speaker 1: how a helicopter will rise, and then they'll flatten that blade.
Speaker 1: When they want to hover some, they'll flatten it some.
Speaker 1: When they want to gain altitude, they'll pitch it. A
Speaker 1: drone works exactly the same way. So if I had
Speaker 1: a geometric shape the size of an SUV hovering over
Speaker 1: somebody's house, I would consider that anomblous. But if it's
Speaker 1: particularly if it's silent, most importantly, perhaps if it's silent,
Speaker 1: because that shape does not create lift. I don't hear
Speaker 1: the sound of mechanical propulsion, and at that range I
Speaker 1: should hear it. And if I don't hear it and
Speaker 1: it's hovering there, that's an anomalous craft to me. Okay,
Speaker 1: can That's what I would say?
Speaker 4: Yes, Since since you're more knowledgeable on this, can you
Speaker 4: please also point out something that you and I discussed.
Speaker 4: They're using a term like drones very liberally because that
Speaker 4: is what the public understands. But there are other crafts
Speaker 4: they're unmanned, that are larger, called UAVs unmanned aerial aerial vehicles,
Speaker 4: so large that one time they were writing in a
Speaker 4: truck with one in the back in Bethesda, Maryland, And
Speaker 4: there's there's actually pictures of this. Everyone was calling it
Speaker 4: and saying there's a UFO being driven in a truck
Speaker 4: because it was this large, flat pancake like thing and
Speaker 4: they're like, what is this. It's a it's a UFO.
Speaker 4: And Lockheed Martin has also put one out on their
Speaker 4: porch for people to take photos of for whatever reason.
Speaker 4: I don't know, but we know that there are and
Speaker 4: of course there were reports, Oh that's a UAV. Could
Speaker 4: you please just tell people about UAV's real quick, because
Speaker 4: I want people to understand that drone is. They're probably
Speaker 4: thinking the little thing you could buy from Amazon, But
Speaker 4: UAVs is what the SUV shaped size thing could potentially
Speaker 4: be unless it's not making noise, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Unfortunately, the UAVs, so we talked earlier, the MQ
Speaker 1: one is not used by the Air Force. It was
Speaker 1: called the Predator. It's a little smaller, uh. And this
Speaker 1: is a fixed wing turboprop aircraft unmanned aerial vehicle, as
Speaker 1: Deb said, And you could see that where the cockpit
Speaker 1: would be, it's kind of wide. I could get a
Speaker 1: photo of one if you while I'm talking here. And
Speaker 1: or the MQ nine Reaper or the r Q four
Speaker 1: that we mentioned earlier. That's jet powered. So let me
Speaker 1: let me bring up an m Q nine reaper.
Speaker 2: And I'm hoping that you also DJ talk about the
Speaker 2: flight time because I have a friend who used to
Speaker 2: work for GM and he was working at GM back
Speaker 2: in the nineties working on a UAV with hydrogen to
Speaker 2: extend the life flight time. So will you talk about
Speaker 2: that for people, like how long they can be in
Speaker 2: the air.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So somebody was saying the other day that I
Speaker 1: think it was that guy Mark D'Antonio was on with
Speaker 1: On with Matt and Willis and he was talking about, oh,
Speaker 1: this is this is a good one here if I
Speaker 1: can get it to come up. And he was talking about, oh,
Speaker 1: there's a hydrogen powered one, and he says it has
Speaker 1: fourteen hours of dwell time. Here, and let me just
Speaker 1: show you what the m Q nine looks like real quick,
Speaker 1: so you can see, Okay, this is what it looks like.
Speaker 1: There go and now I can put it on the stage.
Speaker 1: So this is an m Q nine right here, and
Speaker 1: you can see how it's domed, where the cockpit is,
Speaker 1: here's the sensor. So these guys are more than likely
Speaker 1: up there looking if there's a craft that any government
Speaker 1: entity thinks is anomalous. This would be one of the
Speaker 1: craft right here that would probably be up and looking
Speaker 1: at it with that sensor right there. And I don't
Speaker 1: know exactly I think these guys might have, like in
Speaker 1: the right conditions, they might be able to stay up
Speaker 1: in the air eighteen hours, maybe a little less than that.
Speaker 1: I'd have to go look because they're not refuelable, so
Speaker 1: they have to land them and then put and they'll
Speaker 1: put another one on station before they relieve this one. Anyway,
Speaker 1: So Mark Antonio talked about a hydrogen powered one and
Speaker 1: he said it might have fourteen hours of dwell time,
Speaker 1: but he said it goes like sixty miles an hour,
Speaker 1: and he said they could be coming as far as
Speaker 1: from North Africa. And I'm like, Mark, I don't think
Speaker 1: they're gonna make it across the Atlantic Ocean from North
Speaker 1: Africa to Jersey in fourteen hours. And if they did,
Speaker 1: and they won't, they wouldn't be able to make it
Speaker 1: back because the aircraft it would fly from North Africa
Speaker 1: to Jersey, you'd want to be doing about six hundred knots,
Speaker 1: not sixty knots, so they would run out of gas.
Speaker 1: And they would become fish food in the Atlantic Ocean somewhere.
Speaker 2: And how much do you think it costs approximately for that?
Speaker 1: I mean, he looked it up on air. If you
Speaker 1: guys go to Martin Willis's what is it called? Podcast?
Speaker 1: UFO said his name of it, that's right, podcast podcast
Speaker 1: UFO and he names the company and he looks it up.
Speaker 1: But there's not going to be a lot of those
Speaker 1: around that are gonna be And even if it is
Speaker 1: hydrogen powered, hydrogen powered doesn't mean that it's not a
Speaker 1: mechanical engine. It just means it's using a zero mission
Speaker 1: sustainable fuel that we that we like. But yeah, so anyway,
Speaker 1: that's that's that drone. I'm unfamiliar with it, but I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not thinking that's the source of our issue.
Speaker 1: As Nathan said at the beginning, we have hobbyist drones.
Speaker 1: We have sheriffs like Ocean County, New Jersey, show them
Speaker 1: launching their sheriff's drones and they had ir on theirs.
Speaker 1: Then you have maybe three letter agency d D Homeland
Speaker 1: security drones. And then we have as deb said, UAVs
Speaker 1: that are probably up there looking. You may have rotary
Speaker 1: wing I mean there are helicopters that have great sensors
Speaker 1: on them that can see these things, and then you
Speaker 1: also probably have fighter or wing aircraft that can look
Speaker 1: at them. Plus we haven't even gotten into if they
Speaker 1: decide to launch AC one thirty's up there, because AC
Speaker 1: one thirty can sit there and go orbit for six
Speaker 1: hours with two great m X twenty five L three
Speaker 1: sensors on it, and then go refuel and have another
Speaker 1: you know, go REFILM, come back and get on station.
Speaker 1: So there's plenty of assets that can be up there,
Speaker 1: mixed in with probably some u as.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I was able to put two of the three links
Speaker 4: I put in our chat are related to what I
Speaker 4: was talking about that I don't know what happened with
Speaker 4: the middle link, But the first one that you could
Speaker 4: perhaps put in to the YouTube chat is the one
Speaker 4: in the Beltway, and then the last one is the
Speaker 4: one that was spotted at Lockheed Martin. So these were
Speaker 4: the UAVs that I was mentioning that look very anomalous,
Speaker 4: but they are ua vs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, absolutely, I there's and there is there's a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff out there. There's a lot of gamesmanship
Speaker 1: that goes on.
Speaker 6: See if I can get this one up there. That's
Speaker 6: my microphone chrome tab. Let me see there it is. Okay,
Speaker 6: let's see if this soul, if the soul, come on.
Speaker 6: I have trouble sharing chrome to chrome. I don't know
Speaker 6: why that is, Nathan, I can share for Oh, there goes,
Speaker 6: there goes. Okay, now it's up there, come on, baby,
Speaker 6: there she goes. All right, So this is what Deb
Speaker 6: is talking about.
Speaker 1: And if you see real clearly that clearly looks like
Speaker 1: a UFO, let me I'll scroll it so that you
Speaker 1: can see up a little bit. See that right there.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of games in the ship that
Speaker 1: goes on. Deb knows. I don't get too excited about
Speaker 1: t R three b's and all this crap that they
Speaker 1: throw out there because they want you to believe that
Speaker 1: we're producing, you know, anomalous craft, and I'm mostly not
Speaker 1: into it. I'll tell you something else. My voice is
Speaker 1: about shot for the night, so we're gonna have to
Speaker 1: say farewell and goodbye, and yeah it's my it's about
Speaker 1: toast right now. So uh, let me go back to
Speaker 1: the chat so we can say goodbye. Thank you everybody
Speaker 1: to your drop shape. That is correct. You guys were
Speaker 1: phenomenal tonight to chat. You gave us a lot of
Speaker 1: cool stuff to talk about, and I we will do
Speaker 1: it again and have another one of these. We'll get
Speaker 1: the cabs back together and and start mixing in some
Speaker 1: cabin Dellick business. So final comments Nathan before we go.
Speaker 5: Yeah, just it's it is great to be back, and
Speaker 5: thank you all for for joining us and participating in
Speaker 5: the conversation. Awesome participation, great questions, you know, for those
Speaker 5: we hear new to the subject and really want to
Speaker 5: learn more. I I want to highlight a couple of
Speaker 5: videos or movies that you could you know, watch. I
Speaker 5: would start with a movie called The Phenomena documentary from
Speaker 5: James Fox. That's a really good one to start with.
Speaker 5: Follow it up with the uh, what what is the
Speaker 5: Virginia one called? Guys, I'm saying that.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, I can't remember what it's called, but you can.
Speaker 2: Moment of contact.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Moment of contact. Thank you cornys for the same.
Speaker 2: Let me just for the obscure information.
Speaker 5: So good, So we start with that. Start with the Phenomena,
Speaker 5: which is a great place to start get oriented to
Speaker 5: this topic. Moment of contact, which is an amazing first
Speaker 5: hand account story in Brazil, and then his most recent
Speaker 5: one that just came out yesterday called The Program. You
Speaker 5: can find that on Apple TV, Amazon Prime Video, a
Speaker 5: lot of places. I've watched it.
Speaker 1: It's great recommend I'll be watching that to die Baby.
Speaker 5: Good stuff, so watch that. But and again, great to
Speaker 5: be back with everybody.
Speaker 1: We'll do this again.
Speaker 5: It's really really fun to get back with you guys
Speaker 5: and have these conversations. And I can I can basically
Speaker 5: commit it's only going to get weirder from here. We're
Speaker 5: going to get into some other subjects that will be
Speaker 5: a little bit weirder and wilder than just drones.
Speaker 2: So go ahead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was.
Speaker 4: Just going to say happy holidays. First of all, let's
Speaker 4: not forget what time of year it is. Happy holidays, kay.
Speaker 4: I was also going to say, like, you know, I
Speaker 4: think this highlights just the need for us to be
Speaker 4: able to have these conversations. What is going on is
Speaker 4: something we all want to know, and it's okay to
Speaker 4: ask that question, and it's okay to do research and
Speaker 4: go really deep into it and to discover things that
Speaker 4: open your eyes. And I think, you know, I did
Speaker 4: a lot of my research as DJ knows just with
Speaker 4: my phone in the beginning. You can find everything on
Speaker 4: your own, have your own adventure, go down your own path.
Speaker 4: Don't be afraid, Like if you ask your neighbor, did
Speaker 4: you ever have a psychic dream? One of them probably
Speaker 4: did you ever asked someone, hey, what's that dayja boo? Feeling?
Speaker 4: Other people have it. It's a human thing, right, so yeah,
Speaker 4: don't be afraid to ask the questions and do the research.
Speaker 4: It's out there.
Speaker 2: I'm going to end with what Sherry de said our
Speaker 2: rock star for tonight. Treat others with love and respect.
Speaker 2: And if you are helping other people who are grasping
Speaker 2: to try to understand a contact experience or an encounter,
Speaker 2: one of the greatest gifts you can give is the
Speaker 2: gift of presents, which is your full self.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you got you know. I can't tell
Speaker 1: you how much I missed you. Guys. Look at this,
Speaker 1: Ernie Birdie still here. Thank you so much, Blue LaBelle,
Speaker 1: thank you love, Thank you for blessing us with your
Speaker 1: presence and your energy tonight, Deanna, every I like, I
Speaker 1: can't even name all of you because all of you
Speaker 1: were so amazing. Scott Land Priot Radio that yeah, tomorrow
Speaker 1: night I'll be on with Adam. Yeah, I believe Eastern,
Speaker 1: which means Courtney can watch because she won't be a
Speaker 1: sleep yet. And thank you. Just just a pleasure to
Speaker 1: be back on air with you guys. I missed you
Speaker 1: guys a lot. You you are are Karen Reid. Audience
Speaker 1: that's here, which is basically most of the audience here
Speaker 1: believe is like Karen Reid and there they love listening
Speaker 1: to you and how intelligent and researched and caring and
Speaker 1: smart you are. So whatever the audience is that that
Speaker 1: that have I've cultivated with Karen Reid. They fell in
Speaker 1: love with you just like I did. So that's really
Speaker 1: you know, it just really feels good. And I'm you know,
Speaker 1: it's what I expected what happened, and that's what happened.
Speaker 1: So I needed a Karen read break. Absolutely, you know
Speaker 1: there's you know we all do you know we did
Speaker 1: a music episode where we did nothing but talk rock
Speaker 1: music of for Karen Reid content creators and these guys.
Speaker 1: You can see why I love these guys. They're absolutely
Speaker 1: amazing And thank you so on behalf of Nathan and
Speaker 1: Debs and Courtney. This is DJ saying peace out one love,
Speaker 1: We'll see you down the road, and as always, we
Speaker 1: wonder F