Speaker 1: Oh, just content warning up top. We talked about all
Speaker 1: kinds of things in this sex of course. Things may
Speaker 1: not want to eat things you might.
Speaker 2: It gets gross, it's discussed. What can I tell you enjoy?
Speaker 2: Oh hey, so it's your friend who offered you a mint,
Speaker 2: and now you're overthinking?
Speaker 1: Why Ali Ward? Here we are.
Speaker 2: We're about to experience something together. It guess wild friends
Speaker 2: come along. This is one that's been sitting in.
Speaker 1: The stacks for a bit.
Speaker 2: It's kind of been fermenting because it was recorded over
Speaker 2: the summer, right before I got really sick, and getting
Speaker 2: into it this week I realized I had forgotten how
Speaker 2: absolutely unhinged this one is in terms of subject matter,
Speaker 2: like you're in for a treat, you'in.
Speaker 1: For a treat. But first, thank you to Patreon.
Speaker 2: You've submitted thoughtful questions for this revolting romp, and to
Speaker 2: join you could submit your questions before our interviews to
Speaker 2: stop over to patreon dot com slash ologies, where it
Speaker 2: costs one hot dollar a.
Speaker 1: Month to join.
Speaker 2: Thank you also to everyone wearing ologies merch from ologies
Speaker 2: merch dot also said note thanks for all the really
Speaker 2: really really sweet supportive messages after last week's field trip
Speaker 2: episode of my getting surgery. It ran more to me
Speaker 2: than you know. And I even got some notes in
Speaker 2: our reviews. And to prove that I read every review,
Speaker 2: I pick a fresh, non rotting one each week, such
Speaker 2: as this one from r n rg LSLC, who said,
Speaker 2: love the theme song, love the tangents and secrets, love
Speaker 2: the rawness. I love that review, r nrg LSLC. And
Speaker 2: thank you to everyone who left reviews, including another user
Speaker 2: by the name of Poopoop Peepe, who is right on
Speaker 2: target for this episode. Because disgustology, it's a real term.
Speaker 2: It stems from the word gusto, which is taste, so
Speaker 2: it means a distaste or to put off one's appetite.
Speaker 2: So if you are hoping to stop snacking for at
Speaker 2: least an hour, you have arrived at the right place.
Speaker 2: I interviewed a Harvard trained cultural psychologist who is now
Speaker 2: a professor at University of Pennsylvania. I got myself to
Speaker 2: this beautiful building in the heart of the metropolis, and
Speaker 2: I was warmly invited into his high rise home.
Speaker 3: Oh what a great building.
Speaker 1: Should I take my shoes off?
Speaker 4: What a bed? Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: His windows were a panoramic vista cast in blue gray
Speaker 2: as this afternoon summer thunderstorm churned over the city.
Speaker 3: What's cozy for you?
Speaker 4: Anything you like?
Speaker 2: So I got settled in a deep chair next to
Speaker 2: the couch and we had a lovely, just casual kind
Speaker 2: of chit chat about spit, body training, fork sharing, spoiled meat, senophobia, sex, kinks,
Speaker 2: funereal experiments, perfume that you may or may not want
Speaker 2: to buy food you may not want to eat, the
Speaker 2: aic nipples, world War two, and so much more. It
Speaker 2: gets spicy, So face your fears and get to know
Speaker 2: the emotion that keeps you alive with psychology professor, researcher,
Speaker 2: lauded expert, and he who bears the title officially of disgustologist,
Speaker 2: doctor Paul Rodnon.
Speaker 5: My first name is pretty Easy's Paul. Her last name
Speaker 5: is Rosen, my Russian name. My father came from from
Speaker 5: Bellow Goose. When he came to Ellis Island, my father said,
Speaker 5: I want my Russian name.
Speaker 1: Oh so I.
Speaker 4: Don't have the same name as many of my.
Speaker 2: Relatives, but you can call him doctor disgusted.
Speaker 1: Several news outlets have so in.
Speaker 5: Setting emotion, disgust turns out to be very convenient toilet training,
Speaker 5: which is a very interesting things essential issue of Freud,
Speaker 5: but it's disgusting. There's two things. People don't want to
Speaker 5: set anything Freud was interested in, because you know, we've
Speaker 5: gotten past him. He wasn't really a scientist and we're
Speaker 5: a real science now. I mean, it's a fascinating area
Speaker 5: where he takes something that kids love.
Speaker 4: They love poop.
Speaker 5: Do you get them to hate it? We're really upset
Speaker 5: by it. And that's an amazing transformation. Yeah, and nobody's
Speaker 5: really seriously looked at that.
Speaker 2: Do you think that in psychology people think of Freud
Speaker 2: as a contaminant and they don't want that contagion of
Speaker 2: being a sci Well.
Speaker 5: I'm not quite sure he's a contaminant, but certainly they
Speaker 5: don't want to be associated with Freud because Freud was
Speaker 5: not a scientist. He had a lot of interesting ideas,
Speaker 5: he didn't pursue them as a scientific well, he thought
Speaker 5: of himself as a scientist. By the way, the psychology
Speaker 5: has been fighting to be called a science ever since.
Speaker 5: I've been in the field since the middle of the
Speaker 5: twentieth century, and they wanted to be with biology and chemistry,
Speaker 5: not with sociology. And anthropology, and shedding Freud was part
Speaker 5: of that. I wrote this paper on the seven poles
Speaker 5: of the body and how the psychology will each told.
Speaker 2: For more on this, you can see doctor Rosin's two
Speaker 2: thousand and seven address exploring the Landscape of Modern Academic Psychology,
Speaker 2: Finding and Filling the Holes, in which he explains, in
Speaker 2: the presence of holes, the clear demarcation between self and
Speaker 2: others is blurred, and each bodily hole offers both vulnerability
Speaker 2: and promise. Which is so true for what is our
Speaker 2: bodily self without access to that which surrounds us, without
Speaker 2: a hole for snacks, our bodies really hungry and probably dead.
Speaker 5: I did one study showing that medical students that sus
Speaker 5: sect the cadaver. Oh okay, So after they dissect the cadaver,
Speaker 5: they're much less disgusted by cadavers, huh okay, But they're
Speaker 5: not less disgusted.
Speaker 4: By fresh dead bodies. Really, it's very specific.
Speaker 2: Shall we enjoy reading from the book of Cambridge University
Speaker 2: Press twenty twenty three titled Hedonic adaptation is specific habituation
Speaker 2: to discuss slash death elicitors as a result of dissecting
Speaker 2: a cadaver, so In this, Paul writes that by using
Speaker 2: the discussed scale as a metric, they find a significant
Speaker 2: reduction in discuss responses to death and quote body envelope
Speaker 2: violation elicitors don't know what that means, but I can imagine.
Speaker 2: So maggots or a dirty kleenex might still be gross
Speaker 2: to a med student, but a cold corpse just becomes
Speaker 2: no biggie. So if you're scared of doing something new,
Speaker 2: like taking the bus or wearing baggier but more fashionable pants,
Speaker 2: just think, with exposure therapy, we can get more comfy
Speaker 2: slicing into dead people.
Speaker 1: So try the pants, do it? You got this?
Speaker 2: Have you ever had to interview anyone that works at
Speaker 2: a morgue and see why they're able to eat their
Speaker 2: lunch around dead bodies, whereas well another person would.
Speaker 5: Yeah, first of all, some people can't do that, Okay,
Speaker 5: but they're not like you to become workers in morgues,
Speaker 5: of course.
Speaker 1: Good point.
Speaker 5: So you have a lot of selection. But people get
Speaker 5: used to almost everything, that's the story. You get used
Speaker 5: to it all kinds of getting old. Yeah, and you
Speaker 5: get used to the environment you're in. I had a
Speaker 5: case where I we were doing a discuss study one
Speaker 5: of my favorite studies, and we were looking at actual
Speaker 5: exposure to real discuss things with people. Our instructions were
Speaker 5: we had thirty two tasks I think, yeah them to do.
Speaker 5: One of them was take a glass and spit in it,
Speaker 5: and then would you drink the glass?
Speaker 1: Even though that's it was just in my mouth. I
Speaker 1: don't want to do that, that's right.
Speaker 4: Isn't that interesting? But yeah, it was just in your mouth? Okay.
Speaker 5: And we got a freshly cut pig's head with a
Speaker 5: butcher and we said, we have a pighead in the refrigerator.
Speaker 5: Would you be willing to pull it out and look
Speaker 5: at it?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Would you be willing to touch it? Would you be willing
Speaker 5: to stick a pin in its eye? And we asked
Speaker 5: that people listen.
Speaker 4: People didn't. Some people didn't. Then we said, no problem,
Speaker 4: you don't do it. Fine.
Speaker 2: More on human relationships with animals in terms of food
Speaker 2: not other stuff in a bit.
Speaker 4: And we had them do all these crazy things.
Speaker 5: We also had a starter's pistol, but we showed them
Speaker 5: what it was and there's no bullets in it.
Speaker 4: Would you hold it to your head and pull the trigger? No?
Speaker 5: No, So we had all these dead tasks. We had
Speaker 5: a Nazi, a true Nazi hat from World War Two,
Speaker 5: and we said would you look at it, would you
Speaker 5: touch it?
Speaker 4: Would you put it on your head? Oh? Boy? Okay.
Speaker 4: So we went through this whole thing and one thing
Speaker 4: we wanted to do was get ashes, cremated ashes. Okay,
Speaker 4: everything we gave them was absolutely true. We said, everything
Speaker 4: was what the Nazi at was a real Nazi at.
Speaker 4: And we decided we couldn't really do cremated ashes.
Speaker 1: People donate their bodies.
Speaker 5: But we did want to get something that looked just
Speaker 5: like it. So we went through a crematorium a student.
Speaker 1: That I field trip.
Speaker 5: And we visited the guy who does this and we
Speaker 5: explained what we wanted and he said, oh, he said,
Speaker 5: you want to see cremated ashes.
Speaker 4: And he said yeah.
Speaker 5: He said oh, come here, and he had this boom
Speaker 5: full of you know, like shoe boxes filled with creamade.
Speaker 5: He says, here's one, here's another one, and he started
Speaker 5: showing us if like he was selling them to us. Okay,
Speaker 5: and he was so thrilled. No one had ever come
Speaker 5: to him and said, I want to see what you do.
Speaker 5: He said, you want to see your body burning? And
Speaker 5: he went on this whole thing, and we learned from
Speaker 5: him how to make from a dog bone mash a
Speaker 5: dog round bone, and some a couple of things how
Speaker 5: we could make it look.
Speaker 2: So instead of someone's abandoned cremaines, they opted for mashed
Speaker 2: up beef bones from a pet food store. And maybe
Speaker 2: they got creative with like some fireplace ash or some
Speaker 2: corn starch or something. But it was a convincing craft project,
Speaker 2: and we got an urn.
Speaker 5: We bought an urn from him, so we have this
Speaker 5: thing which we said with cremated ashes. It's the only
Speaker 5: lie we told. And we asked people where they look
Speaker 5: at the urn, where they open the urn, where they
Speaker 5: touched the ashes with their hands.
Speaker 4: So we had people doing all these things, and we
Speaker 4: measured how willing they were to do it. And we
Speaker 4: had previously they had already taken the discussed.
Speaker 5: Scale months before, so we had measures of an indirect measure,
Speaker 5: and now we had a direct measure about disgust, and
Speaker 5: so we could compare them.
Speaker 4: And the interesting thing.
Speaker 5: About the study is after the study was over, there
Speaker 5: they've been do all these things.
Speaker 4: People said this was terrific.
Speaker 5: They would say, I want to get my friends to
Speaker 5: do this because you know, the sort of playing.
Speaker 4: With disgust that's safe. Yeah, sort of actually sort of fun.
Speaker 2: Well, it's like Halloween is a hunted house to them,
Speaker 2: but with real disgusting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 5: So that's one of the interesting things about Discuss that
Speaker 5: it's always interested me is how central it is in humor. Oh,
Speaker 5: for sure, all these discussed jokes. I mean there's loads
Speaker 5: of them.
Speaker 2: Toilet humor got its name for a reason. Toilet humor schatological.
Speaker 5: That's right, and people can laugh at it as long
Speaker 5: as it isn't in their face. That is, they're not
Speaker 5: facing the discuss, right, somebody else is.
Speaker 2: And if you'd like more on everything from chuckles to
Speaker 2: hysterics to roast comedy and slapstick. Early in ologies, I
Speaker 2: interviewed doctor Lieberg, who's a renowned professor and a gelatologist
Speaker 2: who studies laughter's effect on the body. And he says
Speaker 2: he's the guy who's serious about studying comedy, and he's
Speaker 2: not wrong, and he's a darling. Going back a little
Speaker 2: bit in terms of defining disgust, is discussed an emotion?
Speaker 2: Is it a reaction? Where does disgust fall in the
Speaker 2: spectrum of things that we can feel. How is it classified?
Speaker 5: Well, it's classified as an emotion, and it's even classified
Speaker 5: as one of the big six emotions in psychology along
Speaker 5: with fear, anger, said, happy, surprise. I don't like that
Speaker 5: when I discussed and there are there are the taxonomies
Speaker 5: as an Indian taxonomy which has ten emotions, but discussed
Speaker 5: as one of those two.
Speaker 2: Let's explore a few extra emotions via the turn of
Speaker 2: the century two thousand paper exploring Hindu Indian emotional expressions
Speaker 2: Evidence for accurate recognition by Americans and Indians, which list
Speaker 2: the culturally recognized emotions. This is via a rough translation
Speaker 2: from the Sanskrit as get ready for this anger, disgust, fear, heroism,
Speaker 2: humor or, amusement, love, peace, sadness, shame or embarrassment, and wonder.
Speaker 2: I love that range, and I also love that wonder
Speaker 2: is an emotion. I'm just I'm in wonder about that.
Speaker 2: And I got to say, if you're not familiar with
Speaker 2: the emotions wheel, look it up.
Speaker 1: It's this thing. It's like a color wheel.
Speaker 2: But it has Western psychologies recognized six emotions, which are fear, anger,
Speaker 2: discusst surprise, happiness, and sadness. With these subsets and variations
Speaker 2: under each of them, like underhappy, there's peaceful, or remorse
Speaker 2: is undersad and discussed emotions can vary from judgmental to
Speaker 2: hesitant or disappointed. And if you must know, I have
Speaker 2: a laminated copy of this wheel up in my office,
Speaker 2: and I also purchased a throw pillow for the couch.
Speaker 2: And if Jarrett and I are pissy to each other,
Speaker 2: we literally bust out the emotion's wheel pillow and we
Speaker 2: point to what we're really feeling, which is, honestly usually fear,
Speaker 2: which has underlying feelings of anxious, inadequate.
Speaker 1: Or even overwhelmed. How about that?
Speaker 2: And surprise emotions can include amazed or awestruck, startled or
Speaker 2: shocked or dismayed. Now, so what if you hate surprises?
Speaker 2: What if you hate I'm not one of those people,
Speaker 2: but some personality psychologists say that this is in line
Speaker 2: with higher prefrontal cortex activity in a part of the
Speaker 2: brain called the anterior cingulate gyrus, which handles thinky tasks
Speaker 2: like decision making and attention to deal and avoiding mistakes.
Speaker 2: And according to this book, you happier. These types of
Speaker 2: folks who hate surprises tend to be a little more stubborn,
Speaker 2: but they like routines and they have a lot of perseverance.
Speaker 2: Maybe they're a little more anxious, maybe they hang on
Speaker 2: to grudges, but they really get shit done. And for
Speaker 2: more on personality psychology, we have an excellent episode with
Speaker 2: doctor Semine Vizier, which I hope surprises you with energetic
Speaker 2: awe and amazement and eager astonishment. According to the wheel
Speaker 2: that I just looked up, but let's roll on backwards
Speaker 2: to discuss.
Speaker 5: So it's got most of the properties of an emotion.
Speaker 5: It's got a facial expression, and that's clear. It's an
Speaker 5: acute feeling. You don't feel disgusted for a month, you
Speaker 5: feel disgusted. It's almost always tied to some events.
Speaker 1: And where does that facial expression come from.
Speaker 5: I think discussed is originally about rejecting offensive foods. That's
Speaker 5: where it starts, and that's how I think where we
Speaker 5: see it first and children, and it's closing of the nose,
Speaker 5: opening in the mouth, gaping sometimes thinking your tongue out.
Speaker 5: That's all getting rid of things. It's expelling it.
Speaker 2: And you're closing off your palette really right to not
Speaker 2: let anything down there.
Speaker 4: You're basically spitting out or closing it off. That's right.
Speaker 5: So that's what it looks like, and that's that is
Speaker 5: functionally what it is. Now when you say, when you
Speaker 5: show that there's something else, like I say Adolf Hitler, people, well,
Speaker 5: that's of course an extension of that same discussion.
Speaker 4: It's not about eating Hitler, but it's the same system
Speaker 4: that's applied to moral things.
Speaker 2: Now, how can you tell that that is discussed and
Speaker 2: not anger, say, for example, well.
Speaker 4: Okay, so first of all, anger is an approach emotion.
Speaker 1: Oh what's an approach emotion?
Speaker 4: The emotion that.
Speaker 5: When you experience it, you want to engage with whatever
Speaker 5: stimulated you're angry at it, whereas discussed is a withdrawal emotion.
Speaker 5: So it's very different. It's the opposite. They're both negative,
Speaker 5: but one is a negative approach, the other is a
Speaker 5: negative withdrawal. Now there is some overlap and the facial
Speaker 5: because this disgust thing also bears your teeth.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're right.
Speaker 4: One anger face is also a disgust space, and this
Speaker 4: a disgust space is not at.
Speaker 2: All aga and that's just you're not bearing your teeth,
Speaker 2: you're just tongue out let's turn our attention briefly to
Speaker 2: the varieties of disgust faces and the structure of disgust,
Speaker 2: which was co authored by Yes doctor Paul Rowson. In it,
Speaker 2: you're going to learn that the nose wrinkle is associated
Speaker 2: with either irritating or offensive smells and to some extent,
Speaker 2: bad tastes and gape and tongue excrusion like are associated
Speaker 2: with food offense, disgust, and oral irritation. But a raised
Speaker 2: upper lip correlates to boundary violations like bodily or personal
Speaker 2: space or certain moral offenses, and so humans evolve these
Speaker 2: signals way back prehistorically, and this study was authored just
Speaker 2: a scant thirty years ago by Paul. But I'm thinking
Speaker 2: with the number of like selfie camera monologues we deliver
Speaker 2: to AI equipped social media biometric capturing platforms, I'm sure
Speaker 2: we have more data than we could ever use to
Speaker 2: analyze just what our faces are doing when we're grossed out.
Speaker 2: Someone out there, work with an evil social media company
Speaker 2: and figure this out. They'll do it for the sake
Speaker 2: of profit and coercion. You might not even have to
Speaker 2: get a grant. Just thinking about that curls my lip the.
Speaker 5: Up raised upper lip is part of both anger and discussed.
Speaker 5: When discussed is a moral reaction to like Adolf Hitler.
Speaker 5: It's sometimes difficult to distinguish from anger because psychologically you're
Speaker 5: disgusted by Hitler, but you also want.
Speaker 1: To hit them, right.
Speaker 2: Ah, that's an interesting notion. Is it discussed? Is it
Speaker 2: a lot about threat abatement? Is it really your Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a threat.
Speaker 4: You could say it's a threat, but it's not a
Speaker 4: threat that's that's direct it at you. So it's one
Speaker 4: that you can withdraw up up. Here's an example. If
Speaker 4: you're watching someone on the street, the dressed in a
Speaker 4: formal wear, a man and a woman, and the man
Speaker 4: steps in dog do on the street, that's really funny.
Speaker 4: But if you step in dog dough.
Speaker 1: That's a funny funny Oh not funny.
Speaker 2: I will say that it matters profoundly who steps in it,
Speaker 2: and if I hate them, And if it's like a
Speaker 2: sweet couple that celebrated their anniversary because it might be
Speaker 2: the last one before one of them dies because they
Speaker 2: have cancer, and like the nice man wants to take
Speaker 2: his beautiful wife out to this special dinner as she
Speaker 2: feels like herself in a wig and a fancy dress,
Speaker 2: and then he steps and dog to you, left by
Speaker 2: some jerk who doesn't clean up after his expensive purebred
Speaker 2: dog from a backyard breeder. Then no, that's not very funny,
Speaker 2: and I'm having too many emotions. But yeah, let's suppose
Speaker 2: that the pooh stepper. Let's just pretend that that is
Speaker 2: your childhood bully who you later dated, but then they
Speaker 2: cheated on you with your boss, and the two of
Speaker 2: them are going to fancy dinner using your stolen credit card,
Speaker 2: and then one of them stepped in doc dow and
Speaker 2: you see it from across the street because you're hiding
Speaker 2: in a bush getting video footage for a court case.
Speaker 2: That's funny and why Okay, so I look this up
Speaker 2: in terms of humor theory, this example, this one example
Speaker 2: touches on a few basic concepts. These have been noted
Speaker 2: by philosophers going back like thousands of years, and one
Speaker 2: of them is the relief theory, where something absurd happens
Speaker 2: to break tension in a situation. But there's also this
Speaker 2: superiority theory, where someone with power over you is humbled,
Speaker 2: and that's funny.
Speaker 1: And then there's this.
Speaker 2: Theory of disposition where we can enjoy when good things
Speaker 2: happen to people we like, but then when bad things
Speaker 2: happen to assholes. So in this example, though, it's best
Speaker 2: to see it and not to smell it.
Speaker 5: A lot of discussed humor, it requires that you be
Speaker 5: away from it.
Speaker 4: It's not really threatening you.
Speaker 5: That's true of a lot of things that I have
Speaker 5: a concept of coll benign masochism, which is that people
Speaker 5: all around the world seem to enjoy the arousal of
Speaker 5: negative emotions fear discussed as long as they're not really
Speaker 5: threatened by them. And that includes a roller coaster where
Speaker 5: you're not really falling to your death, but you think
Speaker 5: you are, and the fear becomes part of the pleasure
Speaker 5: and discussed that someone else's disgusting situation is you feel it,
Speaker 5: but it's not about you.
Speaker 4: You didn't step in the dog thell.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's part of why they discussed humor works.
Speaker 5: It's a third party who dropped his lunch in the
Speaker 5: outhouse and has to go down and pull it out.
Speaker 2: You know it's not you again, that's your ex who
Speaker 2: cheated on you. So that's hilarious and the most tension
Speaker 2: and release I feel isn't in like a three dollars
Speaker 2: airport massage share, but it's probably watching the television sketch
Speaker 2: comedy program called I Think You Should leave every episode.
Speaker 2: Every sketch hurts my soul, and I love it. I
Speaker 2: keep going back for more. What about cringe humor where
Speaker 2: you're watching someone have a really uncomfortable, awkward interaction and
Speaker 2: you're not even involved, but it just is like like
Speaker 2: hurts to watch.
Speaker 4: It hurts to watch, but the hert is.
Speaker 1: Pleasant, right right?
Speaker 5: You initiated, right, because that's the same thing. So benign
Speaker 5: masochism is the idea that we enjoy these innately negative
Speaker 5: things because when we're secure that we're not threatened by
Speaker 5: not even includes jumping out of a plane for you know,
Speaker 5: on a possure, it includes the taking cold showers.
Speaker 4: There are a lot of things where your body is
Speaker 4: not really threatened, but your body thinks it's me.
Speaker 2: But when we're disgusted or when we evade the threat
Speaker 2: that discuss us, do we get any pleasure from surviving it?
Speaker 5: We might get pleasure from surviving it. So the pleasure,
Speaker 5: for example, of pain from running a mile or ten miles,
Speaker 5: there may be some feeling of overcoming. But it's also
Speaker 5: that the actual pain can become pleasant, not just the
Speaker 5: success but the experience of the bab.
Speaker 2: And if you need scholarly justification from remaining EMO, you
Speaker 2: can see the twenty twenty three study Glad to Be
Speaker 2: Sad and Other Examples of Benign Masochism, co authored by
Speaker 2: one Paul Rowson, which explains that hedonic reversals can be
Speaker 2: a major source of pleasure, and they can range from
Speaker 2: liking sad experiences like music or novels, or tear jerker
Speaker 2: movies or like my entire college CD collection, to enjoying
Speaker 2: food that's spicy or the strong taste of coffee or alcohol.
Speaker 1: Now, how bad is good? That's the question.
Speaker 2: So this study concludes that the favored level of initially
Speaker 2: negative experiences is something that's just below the level that
Speaker 2: can be tolerated. So I guess it's kind of like edging,
Speaker 2: but with a bummer. Speaking of does this include kinks?
Speaker 2: We're going to get to that later. But back to
Speaker 2: his history and what about when when your family came over.
Speaker 2: I was wondering, because you've done studies with Nazi EFEMERI,
Speaker 2: did you have members of your family who were Jewish?
Speaker 4: Or who were my families and both sides are Jewish.
Speaker 5: No one in my family was in Europe during the
Speaker 5: Nazi period.
Speaker 4: I've done studies on that.
Speaker 5: I know two people who are victims of the Holocaust
Speaker 5: who were in camps. They were anti Nazi, but they
Speaker 5: had no problem going to Germany. And I know lots
Speaker 5: of American Jewish who never had anything to do with Holocausts,
Speaker 5: who wouldn't ride in the Folkswagen and I wouldn't you know,
Speaker 5: I wouldn't eat saurbat all sort of stuff. And I
Speaker 5: was really puzzled that. I get puzzled by the how
Speaker 5: could someone who was in Auschwitz for two years not
Speaker 5: be anti German and someone who's just sitting here and
Speaker 5: none of their relatives even were in German, but they're
Speaker 5: so anti German. And it turns out, just like we're discussed,
Speaker 5: theres an enormous range of anti.
Speaker 4: Germanists in Jewish people.
Speaker 5: So we found that quite a few people who are
Speaker 5: you know, in the Holocaust were not anti German.
Speaker 4: That's interesting. Yeah, And there's a lot of reasons.
Speaker 5: For one reason, very simple one is that the German
Speaker 5: ones were had experienced nice Germans before the Holocaust. Germany
Speaker 5: was not the most anti Semitic country in Europe actually,
Speaker 5: and there were lots of successful Jewish and Germany, so
Speaker 5: they knew nice Germans. And then they met in the
Speaker 5: pants in the Nazis, and so we got interested in that.
Speaker 4: We studied about forty survivors.
Speaker 5: Wow, and we got them to tell us would they
Speaker 5: go in a Folkswagen, could they listen to the German
Speaker 5: language spoken?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 5: Would they be upset about living in an apartment house
Speaker 5: which had a grandson of a Nazi living in that
Speaker 5: house and some of them all that's terrible, and other people.
Speaker 4: That's no problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that's interesting.
Speaker 5: But anyway, yeah, I mean they're about puzzling things about
Speaker 5: people go to terrible drama and come out opposite, you know,
Speaker 5: and we don't underst.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's great to be asking the questions and
Speaker 2: what about you? What drove you to this particular niche?
Speaker 2: How did you find yourself as the godfather of disgusted
Speaker 2: a discussion.
Speaker 4: It's actually a very simple story.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 5: I was studying what people eat and why they eat it.
Speaker 5: Perhaps the favorite food of humans around the world is meat.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so yes, this is true, and we discussed
Speaker 2: hunter gatherer diets in the Metabolism episode in January, and
Speaker 2: our lead editor, Mercedes Maitland, also has an anthropology background
Speaker 2: and chimed in letting me know that meat and honey
Speaker 2: not to say that's what people actually manage to eat
Speaker 2: the most, she says, but that's what are historically the
Speaker 2: most prized foods. And she continues, for example, in hunter
Speaker 2: gatherer societies, people will tend to put more time and
Speaker 2: energy into getting X number of calories for meat than
Speaker 2: they would into getting X number of calories.
Speaker 1: From plant foods.
Speaker 2: Now, how does this translate to you wandering indecisively at
Speaker 2: the mall food court as your lunch to break minutes
Speaker 2: dwindle away. Well, according to the United States Food and
Speaker 2: Agriculture Organization, globally, pork is the most consumed meat and
Speaker 2: it makes up over a third of the world's meat consumption.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have guessed that.
Speaker 2: Next is birds, and yes we have a whole episode
Speaker 2: about chickens, and yes it's called Chickenology. I didn't make
Speaker 2: that up. It is what it is. Do not call
Speaker 2: me a fool. However, if you listen to the Hydrochoreology
Speaker 2: episode recently, about Cafe Barras, you'd know that those big
Speaker 2: mammalian rodents are actually fish happy Easter.
Speaker 5: But then it turns out that meat is also the
Speaker 5: most tabooed food. You don't get vegetable taboos very often,
Speaker 5: right now, Why is this food that is so desirable
Speaker 5: often prohibited? Sometimes they're tabooed for everybody. And if you
Speaker 5: think of say Americans, there are four thousand species of mammals.
Speaker 5: We three pigs, cows, maybe.
Speaker 2: Sheep, right right, Wow, yeah, that's a good point. I
Speaker 2: kept thinking of birds.
Speaker 4: What about the other three thousand and nine? We are
Speaker 4: meat eaters that we love our meat, but we are
Speaker 4: discussed not.
Speaker 5: Only by almost every species of mammal and all the
Speaker 5: other kind of species, but we're also discussed by most
Speaker 5: parts of them.
Speaker 4: We don't need eyeballs, we don't eat skin. We don't
Speaker 4: need fat, oh, your.
Speaker 5: Masses of fat. We don't need a lot of things.
Speaker 5: We eat basically muscle. We don't need brain. In the
Speaker 5: United States, we don't eat most visor. Yeah, we just
Speaker 5: eat muscle.
Speaker 2: Again, this is in Western or US culture and fun fact,
Speaker 2: so the way that I met my spouse, Jarrett, was
Speaker 2: by walking into this organic nose to tail butcher shop,
Speaker 2: and he was behind the counter because wearing a chain
Speaker 2: mail apron. Oh but that's smile. And I remember he
Speaker 2: used to tell these tales of all these upscale Hollywood
Speaker 2: clients that just wanted either pork belly or a skinless
Speaker 2: chicken breast and no other part of the animal. They
Speaker 2: had to convince people to, like try chicken thighs, but
Speaker 2: just not a lot of people tossing pig kidneys into
Speaker 2: their air fryers.
Speaker 4: So we're eating one kind of thing from only a
Speaker 4: few animals, and the rest of them are all disgusting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, why is that? Why? Culturally are Americans rus Well?
Speaker 5: I would say that the story is, first of all,
Speaker 5: almost all food discuss our animal products, almost.
Speaker 1: All, huh except for Durian maybe, yeah, but yes.
Speaker 4: And Durian because smells like it's rotting meat. Yes, that's right.
Speaker 5: So the question is why do we find most meat disgusting?
Speaker 5: And that includes earthworms and you know, all the other
Speaker 5: rats and all the things that we find disgusting. But
Speaker 5: another way to ask the question is why do we
Speaker 5: eat any meat?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 5: So we eat this tiny percentage of all the animal
Speaker 5: food we could eat, and because is how we made
Speaker 5: an exception to that.
Speaker 4: You could ask the question either way. Yeah, but the import.
Speaker 5: One point is that there's all this great animal protein
Speaker 5: out there and we don't want to go have anything
Speaker 5: to do with anybody. And even traditional cultures, which is
Speaker 5: much more meat than we do and more parts of
Speaker 5: the animal, still find many animals disgusting.
Speaker 2: And he says in different parts of the world, different
Speaker 2: cultures eat different types of protein sources.
Speaker 5: They still don't eat at all, and they tend to
Speaker 5: not like decayed meat, which is generally disgusting. Now there
Speaker 5: are exceptions to that, but they're very special. You know,
Speaker 5: there are cultures that he brotten meat, but only certain cases,
Speaker 5: and it's generally not consumed. So that's what got me going,
Speaker 5: was here is this most favorite food of.
Speaker 1: Humans again talking meat, and people.
Speaker 5: Are rejecting almost all instances of it, and then not
Speaker 5: just saying I won't eat it like you might say
Speaker 5: about paper.
Speaker 4: They're actually offended by eating. So that SI what's going
Speaker 4: on there, And that's how I got going.
Speaker 2: And what do you think about types of meat that
Speaker 2: we'll readily eat, such as a hot dog even though
Speaker 2: we know there's buttholes in it? But we wouldn't eat
Speaker 2: just buttholes. We know that it's full of venuses. A
Speaker 2: hot dog is full of well, well sure it's fair trails.
Speaker 2: I mean I love hot dogs, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 2: but I know that hot dogs are full of things
Speaker 2: that if they weren't like macerated and emulsified, I probably.
Speaker 5: Got an actual fact I never looked at this year.
Speaker 5: It's a good question, what's in a hot dog?
Speaker 2: Do we want to know? Should we learn this? You
Speaker 2: know what, some wieners, you gotta look straight in the face.
Speaker 2: So I googled the sentence what's in a hot dog?
Speaker 1: Just level with me? And I got to say.
Speaker 2: The image search returns had had a lot of appetizing
Speaker 2: photos of like crusty buns, taught meat ling and mustard
Speaker 2: squiggles and the like. But let's give it up for
Speaker 2: people for the other gold treatment of animals just busted
Speaker 2: out the disgust with photos of a vat containing what
Speaker 2: looked like giant ribbons of milk, chocolate, frozen yogurt, but
Speaker 2: what actually contained whipped an emulsified muscle. And I found
Speaker 2: myself knee deep in a clip on the YouTube channel
Speaker 2: for how It's.
Speaker 6: Made Traditional hot dogs are made from a mix of pork, beef,
Speaker 6: and chicken. The cuts they start with are called trimmings,
Speaker 6: pieces of meat left over from cutting steaks or pork chops.
Speaker 2: And I realized, this is an you're working with an
Speaker 2: audio only format, and you're welcome for that right now.
Speaker 2: But I'm going to have you visualize this because I
Speaker 2: just see it.
Speaker 1: Just think of like.
Speaker 2: An industrial stainless steel tub about the size of a
Speaker 2: mini van, and in it is a churning, fluffy, grayish
Speaker 2: brown substance. And it stared at it.
Speaker 1: And I was like, what does it look like? And
Speaker 1: I realized.
Speaker 2: It it resembled a job of the hut, just rolling
Speaker 2: over in a sleep, just over and over that in
Speaker 2: a vat.
Speaker 1: But it's liquid ish, I.
Speaker 5: Mean, and some of the things like that sausages are
Speaker 5: actually encased in and testine skin, you know, right, Yeah,
Speaker 5: So there's all sorts of ways that we work around
Speaker 5: a lot of these things. I mean, after all, people
Speaker 5: are breathing everyone else's air and when they walk around,
Speaker 5: and they don't seem to be upset by that. Right
Speaker 5: you go to a theater, you're sitting right next to someone.
Speaker 5: They're breathing you're breathing their air, and unless you're worried
Speaker 5: about COVID, you don't think about it. People aren't too
Speaker 5: upset about being in the same room as something disgusting,
Speaker 5: but they don't want to touch it, right, So the
Speaker 5: touch and I need it. Oh, that's terrible.
Speaker 1: It's just exponential contact.
Speaker 4: Yes, and eating is the worst thing.
Speaker 5: And no one, by the way, I don't think anyone's
Speaker 5: ever done discussed sensitivity of the vagina. Well, I assume
Speaker 5: it's somewhat like the mouth. I mean the idea of
Speaker 5: being of touching a piece of raw.
Speaker 2: Meat to the I mean, it doesn't appeal, but then again,
Speaker 2: it depends on if the raw meat is alive and
Speaker 2: a person you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, I mean, if you look at what you
Speaker 5: don't want to put in your mouth, it's probably not
Speaker 5: unrelated to.
Speaker 4: It which you don't want to put you for sure.
Speaker 5: Wellas I mean a lot of people wouldn't mind touching
Speaker 5: it to their ear. I mean they don't want to
Speaker 5: touch it to anything, but the ear is not it's
Speaker 5: a hole, but you know, it's a neutral hole sort of.
Speaker 2: So would I touch a piece of raw pork to
Speaker 2: my mouth?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No, would I touch it to my newly surgically altered vagina.
Speaker 1: Hell no, brother, And if.
Speaker 2: You're like, excuse me, what do you get done to war?
Speaker 2: You can see last week's episode Field Trip, Ali's mystery surgery.
Speaker 1: I'm going to leave you hanging. Just got to go listen.
Speaker 2: Now, would I let raw pork touch my ear? Which
Speaker 2: is a neutral hole?
Speaker 1: I think I would.
Speaker 2: I think I would because an ear canal is totally
Speaker 2: different in terms of consistency. It's not a blank canvas
Speaker 2: for contamination like a mouth, a butt, or a couter.
Speaker 2: Is it epithelial tissue that makes a squeamish?
Speaker 4: Is its epithelial tissue in the ear too?
Speaker 1: Is there epithet I didn't know that.
Speaker 5: Well, there's an internal epithelium, okay, which is a little different.
Speaker 5: Which is the moist one that you have in the
Speaker 5: vagina in the mouth.
Speaker 2: I fact check this and yeah, it checks out. If
Speaker 2: you still don't believe me, you can skip over to
Speaker 2: the twenty nineteen paper single origin of the epithelium of
Speaker 2: the human middle ear, like I did. But epithelial tissue,
Speaker 2: it's all over the body, okay. It comes in a
Speaker 2: variety of cellular shapes like scale or squay mass or
Speaker 2: tube shaped cells and even cubic shaped cells, and this
Speaker 2: type of epithelial tissue, it's all over our organs, our
Speaker 2: blood vessels, It lines cavities. And if you're like, what
Speaker 2: does epithelial even mean? I'm glad you asked, because I
Speaker 2: just learned that it's etymology and Greek means on the
Speaker 2: nipple or of the teat, And apparently even the epidermis
Speaker 2: is a type of epithelial tissue.
Speaker 1: So this is news to me.
Speaker 5: I'm all yours, Yeah, a little bit in the nose,
Speaker 5: so it could be the moisture that's moisture sort of
Speaker 5: makes things more conductive.
Speaker 1: Right, what do you think of the word moist?
Speaker 4: What do I think of the word?
Speaker 1: People hate the word moist? How do you feel about.
Speaker 4: That moist is?
Speaker 5: Well, you know a lot of disgusting things are damp,
Speaker 5: ye wet, and the and viscera are wet. Well, moist
Speaker 5: in English has a certain negative. If you ask people,
Speaker 5: this's moist the positive or negative word?
Speaker 1: Right or damp?
Speaker 5: They would say negative. So mois is a feature of
Speaker 5: solids that's often associated with decay. And there are plenty
Speaker 5: of foods that are moist. So moist is fascinating. It
Speaker 5: has a negative overtone. I think you're right.
Speaker 4: In English, Oh, I wish.
Speaker 2: We had a language expert to explain why we hate
Speaker 2: the word moist among others. But I stumbled upon an
Speaker 2: article type a language expert explains why you hate the
Speaker 2: word moist among others in vice, and that pointed me
Speaker 2: to a twenty sixteen scholarly article called I moist crevice
Speaker 2: for a word aversion in semantics, not sounds, and they
Speaker 2: concluded that around ten to twenty percent of the population
Speaker 2: gets the creepy crawleys at the mention of moist. Now,
Speaker 2: if you listened to our Rhinology and our Hagfishology episodes,
Speaker 2: both bangers in the past, I left all the shits
Speaker 2: in the fucks in, but I bleeped any mention of
Speaker 2: the word mucus for sensitive listeners, mostly myself, and I
Speaker 2: have since matured and though the word mucus very much
Speaker 2: still on my shit list, I'm just I grit my
Speaker 2: teeth and I get through it, but know that it
Speaker 2: hurts me.
Speaker 1: I don't like it.
Speaker 2: But anyway, back to that twenty sixteen study, which continued
Speaker 2: that word aversion is more prevalent among younger and more
Speaker 2: neurotic people, and it's more commonly reported by females than males,
Speaker 2: which personally.
Speaker 1: It tracks. That's making sense for me. But this is
Speaker 1: all just when it comes to words. At least, what
Speaker 1: about culturally?
Speaker 2: Do certain cultures tend to be quicker to discuss than others?
Speaker 5: We do know that women are more sensitive to discuss
Speaker 5: than men, at least in Japan and the United States.
Speaker 4: Okay, at least two places.
Speaker 5: I know, maybe more than that, because there are discussed
Speaker 5: scales measuring sensitivity. There's an enormous range of discuss sensitivity.
Speaker 5: There are people who are almost almost shown no disgust.
Speaker 1: Who are those people?
Speaker 4: Regular people?
Speaker 1: Regular people?
Speaker 2: But are there certain like neurodivergences, like are people with
Speaker 2: ADHD less likely to be disgusted?
Speaker 5: Or I have no idea about ADHD. But in our
Speaker 5: normal population you find people who are hyper sensitive to discuss.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So for example, one thing we criteria used, would you
Speaker 5: blow your nose and a brand new piece of toilet
Speaker 5: paper coming right out of the sure package?
Speaker 4: Yeah, but there are people that won't do that.
Speaker 2: Okay, oh, okay, oh because it's toilet Oh yeah, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't care about that.
Speaker 4: Well, you see, but you're probably somewhere in.
Speaker 1: The somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And there are.
Speaker 5: Other people who can't believe that anybody would be like that.
Speaker 5: And I really don't fight Fece's disgusting.
Speaker 2: Well thing, I mean, it also depends on whose dog
Speaker 2: it is. I don't want to pick up my friend's
Speaker 2: dogs poop, but i'll pick up my own.
Speaker 5: Well, that's an interesting issue there too. Why, I mean,
Speaker 5: relatively insensitive to our own poop. Yeah, and of course
Speaker 5: you better be, because otherwise you're carrying.
Speaker 4: Around with you all the time, is it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So the people are definitely much less sensitive to
Speaker 5: their own pom. Sometimes it extends to your lover's poop.
Speaker 5: Sometimes it doesn't. Your baby's poop. Yes, mother's typically fine.
Speaker 5: Their baby's poop much less disgusting than some other babies.
Speaker 4: Then you said it with the.
Speaker 2: Dog, right, Yeah, I'll pick up my dog's poop all day,
Speaker 2: but do not ask me to pick up another person's
Speaker 2: dog poop.
Speaker 1: Oh man.
Speaker 2: I just had the cringiest feeling because I remember during
Speaker 2: that soare I had with my girlfriends before surgery. I
Speaker 2: talked about it in the field trip episode. My friend
Speaker 2: Daylyn was over early and she's like, anything I can do,
Speaker 2: And I was like, can you take Grammy for a walk?
Speaker 2: My hands are so full right now. And I had
Speaker 2: completely forgotten until right now that Daylan cannot stand picking
Speaker 2: up other dogs poop.
Speaker 1: And she did it.
Speaker 2: She didn't say a word about it, but I just
Speaker 2: remembered it, and now I want to die. Also that night,
Speaker 2: I suggested my friend Sarah. I was like, you got
Speaker 2: to try one of these grapes. These are such good grapes.
Speaker 2: And she reminded me that to eat a grape is
Speaker 2: incredibly difficult for her because if it were squishy, it
Speaker 2: would signify a little bit of rot and she would gag.
Speaker 2: So I'm over here, I'm just doing amazing. Like anyone
Speaker 2: want to come see the pig head in my refrigerator,
Speaker 2: or you touch this bowl of bone dust, let's party.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 5: You could say about yourself your own poop, that that's,
Speaker 5: of course you're not threatened by your own poop biologically
Speaker 5: because you already have all.
Speaker 4: Those organisms in you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's true, where someone else's might have something that
Speaker 5: you don't have. But everyone agrees that discuss that's something
Speaker 5: to do. With infection and avoiding infection. So there's no
Speaker 5: question about that. So you could say that your own
Speaker 5: poop is less threatening and that's why you are less disgusted.
Speaker 5: I don't think that's the reason myself, but your dog's example,
Speaker 5: which I think is not atypical. There's no way that
Speaker 5: you're less threatened by your dog spoop than by someone
Speaker 5: else other dogs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's maybe it's the devil, you know, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like.
Speaker 5: Well, it's it's a familiarity. But you love your dog,
Speaker 5: that is correct. So you could try to show, for example,
Speaker 5: the more you love your dog, the less you're upset
Speaker 5: about it spoop.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 5: I once tried to do a study like that. It
Speaker 5: was about looking at how intimate people are with their
Speaker 5: dog as in relation to disgust, so that they sleep
Speaker 5: in bed with it, so on things like that. We
Speaker 5: wanted to look at that, so we went to the
Speaker 5: vets school here, we have a great vet school at
Speaker 5: PET and we went into the clinic waiting here and
Speaker 5: we inter people with their dogs. Yeah that's some of
Speaker 5: these things, and we found, much to our distress, that
Speaker 5: almost everybody there sleeps with their dog, talks to their
Speaker 5: dog as if it's a child and basically makes it
Speaker 5: into a member of their family. They treat it essentially as.
Speaker 4: A human being, iply guilty.
Speaker 5: And so we didn't get these people where dogs are
Speaker 5: kept mostly for protection or something, and they're not really
Speaker 5: cuddled with.
Speaker 1: Caddle those pups.
Speaker 2: Because according to the twenty twenty Frontiers paper household pet
Speaker 2: ownership and the microbial Diversity of the human gut, microbiotic
Speaker 2: pets do increase the diversity of our microbiome, with dogs
Speaker 2: contributing more types of bacteria than kiddies. And a twenty
Speaker 2: seventeen New York Times article, are Pets the New Probiotic
Speaker 2: reports that epidemiological studies show that children who grow up
Speaker 2: in households with dogs have a lower risk for developing
Speaker 2: autoimmune illnesses like asthma or allergies. And of course, animals
Speaker 2: can bring in the nasties like toxoplasmosis or salmonilla if
Speaker 2: you cuddle with turtles. So doctors advise washing your damn
Speaker 2: hands before you eat. But what if the animal itself
Speaker 2: touches your food? Let's check out the twenty twenty paper
Speaker 2: Bugs are butterflies are beautiful? But both are bad to bite.
Speaker 2: Admired animals are disgusting to eat, but are themselves neither
Speaker 2: disgusting nor contaminating. Co authored by you guess did doctor
Speaker 2: discussed Paul Rowsen and it found that the more you
Speaker 2: like an animal, the less bothered you are by touching
Speaker 2: your food. So imagine a butterfly that alights upon your sandwich,
Speaker 2: just blessing it with peace and beauty. Would you want
Speaker 2: to eat the actual butterfly? Heaven snow? But what if
Speaker 2: a cockroach with the big wings landed on your sandwich,
Speaker 2: one of those big flying ones and licked your meat?
Speaker 2: Would you want to eat anything?
Speaker 4: Ever?
Speaker 1: Again? Maybe not.
Speaker 2: However, cockroaches are fastidious groomers, and according to our Lepidopterology
Speaker 2: episode with Filterus, butterflies love to slurp shit and they're
Speaker 2: often off rotting fruit. So you would think that studying
Speaker 2: butterflies would be this hazy rainbow of bliss, just set
Speaker 2: to like an Enny soundtrack. But Phil explains in that
Speaker 2: episode that in order to lure butterflies, sometimes scientists have
Speaker 2: to pee on cans of rotting tuna in the rainforest,
Speaker 2: So butterfly expertise necessitates a pretty strong stomach.
Speaker 5: Now there are people occasional cases neurological bases of people
Speaker 5: who have no disgust.
Speaker 1: Where what part of their brain is not firing.
Speaker 4: It mostly involves.
Speaker 5: The insula okay, at the base of the brain, but
Speaker 5: related to the olfactory system, which is not surprising Ray.
Speaker 5: It's disgust is about basically smell and taste.
Speaker 2: Again see our gastology episode about taste, which is linked
Speaker 2: in the show notes. And right now, take inventory. If
Speaker 2: you're snacking on a chocolate cover banana or a sausage
Speaker 2: or chocolate covered sausage, just set it down for a sec.
Speaker 1: It's gonna get rough.
Speaker 4: By the way, we've worked with chocolate dog does of
Speaker 4: course we use Oh.
Speaker 5: We've made chalklate dog does that look just like Oh,
Speaker 5: they know, and they even We've made it with stinky cheese, oh,
Speaker 5: sneaky cheese and chocolate, so it smells like shit and
Speaker 5: we and we'd ask people if they would eat it.
Speaker 4: Now we no.
Speaker 1: Just the thought of it is closing my throat out.
Speaker 5: But a simple thing to do is just take smelted
Speaker 5: chocolate and make it into a dog terry.
Speaker 4: It's solid chocolate, per right.
Speaker 2: Right, Just a reminder, this is a job. Once again,
Speaker 2: this is a job that pays money and you need
Speaker 2: a PhD for it.
Speaker 4: Amazing, And you ask people, you show them that what
Speaker 4: it's made of is it's solid chocolate. Would you eat it?
Speaker 4: And a lot of people won't bite it.
Speaker 2: I know, I just the thought of it as making
Speaker 2: my throat clothes. What's happening. My brain is just thinking
Speaker 2: about it and saying, do not put that in your stomach.
Speaker 1: Don't put it in your.
Speaker 5: Stomach's And the thing about it is that we are
Speaker 5: built in a way that says that if it looks
Speaker 5: like an ex, it's an ex. Because in the real
Speaker 5: world that's true. In the old days, if it looked
Speaker 5: like a tiger, it was a tiger. So you have
Speaker 5: something in your head that said, looks like dog do,
Speaker 5: it is dog do? Now you know, and you bring it.
Speaker 5: That's not dog do, that's chocolate. But that piece of
Speaker 5: your head is saying that it looks like dog doo
Speaker 5: is dog do And you know you don't want to
Speaker 5: touch it.
Speaker 1: How disgusted are you?
Speaker 2: Because your home is immaculate, and so I wouldn't go
Speaker 2: that far. Your home is beautiful and it's so well decorated.
Speaker 2: Everything is in place, there's not a speck of dust anywhere.
Speaker 2: You're well dressed.
Speaker 4: You seem like a my home, doesn't You're resonate with me?
Speaker 5: Immaculated, It's not immaculate, It's okay, yeah.
Speaker 2: But are you do you fall on like the cleaner
Speaker 2: side the more meticulous.
Speaker 5: Generally speaking, you expect that most of the people who
Speaker 5: are work in this area are relatively insensitive. Otherwise they
Speaker 5: would be disgusted by their work and not do it.
Speaker 5: I had a colleague who worked with me was very
Speaker 5: discussed sensitive, But generally speaking, I'm not particularly discussed sensive.
Speaker 5: There are some things that I don't like that are
Speaker 5: a little bit disgusting, But no, I'm not discussing.
Speaker 2: What's the most reliable test a lay person could take
Speaker 2: to find out where they fall on the scale.
Speaker 5: Well, we can start with I'm just making this up now, Okay,
Speaker 5: brand new toilet paper at one end, Would you be
Speaker 5: upset about blowing your.
Speaker 4: Nose and that?
Speaker 5: No? No, but that's one way in the extreme. Are
Speaker 5: you willing to use a public toilet?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 4: Yeah, but there are people who are really very upset
Speaker 4: about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: How about used clothing?
Speaker 1: Oh sure, well I'm just wash it. Yeah, I'm just
Speaker 1: thinking for myself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I don't mind any of those things.
Speaker 5: But then you can get to more difficult things, some
Speaker 5: things that almost everybody's disgusted by, like a fresh piece
Speaker 5: of dog shit.
Speaker 4: On the one hand, and the other one the other end,
Speaker 4: you have.
Speaker 5: This brand new toilet paper mm hm. And you could
Speaker 5: just see where you stand. But there's a very wide range.
Speaker 5: This is something that people are all over the place
Speaker 5: on just.
Speaker 2: This morning, the same morning this will air. Because we hustle,
Speaker 2: our bustles here, Jarrett and I went to a park
Speaker 2: and we decided to spend some special married romantic time
Speaker 2: sipping coffee and taking this discussed scale quiz, which was
Speaker 2: co authored by this week's guest in nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 1: So we sat down at a park table. We got
Speaker 1: to work.
Speaker 3: All right, are you ready?
Speaker 7: Yes, let's gree r. Are you recording this?
Speaker 3: Yeah? You are you recording?
Speaker 4: Okay? You guys sign up? Great?
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Please indicate how much you agree with each of the
Speaker 2: following statements, or how true it is about you. Right,
Speaker 2: a number zero four zero strongly disagreed for strongly agreeing.
Speaker 3: Okay, So the higher the number, the more you agree.
Speaker 2: I might be willing to eating monkey meat under some circumstances.
Speaker 8: M I would I would say, I guess three. I'm
Speaker 8: really opposed to eating monkey meat.
Speaker 7: But I can Oh. That squirrel just did a backward
Speaker 7: summersault while he was trying to eat a stick. It
Speaker 7: was really cute.
Speaker 8: Sorry, I can imagine circumstances.
Speaker 4: Don't say that.
Speaker 7: Because I'm adhd and I can't find my pills this morning. Squirrel,
Speaker 7: Oh my god, dude.
Speaker 8: Okay, I can't imagine a circumstance. Or someone would be like,
Speaker 8: we're eating this monkey. It's, you know, a thing that
Speaker 8: we do. And I go, I guess when? And round?
Speaker 3: Okay, I had a three too, all right, we can't
Speaker 3: go through all.
Speaker 7: Of these bothers me.
Speaker 8: To hear someone clear throat full of mucus, strongly strongly
Speaker 8: agree weird.
Speaker 7: I would go out of my way to avoid walking
Speaker 7: through a great m.
Speaker 4: Two.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I used to have panic attacks when I
Speaker 2: was a kid going through graveyards driving eye one because
Speaker 2: I used to have nightmares with bodies coming out of
Speaker 2: the ground.
Speaker 3: Anyway, watch culture.
Speaker 8: Seeing a cockroach in someone else's house doesn't bother me.
Speaker 8: Mildly disagree, strongly.
Speaker 2: Disagree It would bother me tremendously to touch a dead
Speaker 2: body too.
Speaker 3: Strongly disagree.
Speaker 2: If you have been raised Catholic, you have touched I've
Speaker 2: touched so many dead bodies because you you know, kiss
Speaker 2: their cheek or put your.
Speaker 3: Hand on them. Really an open casket thing. Yeah, I've
Speaker 3: touched at least three or four dead bodies.
Speaker 8: I probably would not go to my favorite restaurant if
Speaker 8: I found out that the cook had a cold.
Speaker 7: A cold or COVID.
Speaker 3: Because that's real different.
Speaker 2: It would not upset me at all to watch a
Speaker 2: person with a glass eye take the eye out of
Speaker 2: the socket.
Speaker 3: It would not upset me. It would bother me to
Speaker 3: see a rat run across my path and apart.
Speaker 7: Strongly disagree, don't give a shirt.
Speaker 2: Mildly disagree. I would rather eat a piece of fruit
Speaker 2: that a piece paper.
Speaker 7: I strongly agree with that.
Speaker 2: At the end, it's gonna be like, please eat the
Speaker 2: piece of paper. Okay, even if I was hungry, I
Speaker 2: would not drink a bowl of my favorite soup if
Speaker 2: it had been stirred by a used but thoroughly washed
Speaker 2: fly swater.
Speaker 7: I strongly I would do it. If it was washed,
Speaker 7: I would not drink it.
Speaker 8: It would bother me to sleep in a night hotel
Speaker 8: if I knew that a man had died of a
Speaker 8: heart attack in that room the night before.
Speaker 3: Wildly agree, mildly agree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you see maggots on a piece of meat in
Speaker 2: an outdoor garbage pail.
Speaker 7: Moderately that's very disgusting. It's still very disgusting.
Speaker 4: It just dands.
Speaker 3: I would say moderately disgusting because I like bugs.
Speaker 8: While you're walking through a tunnel under a railroad track,
Speaker 8: you smell urine.
Speaker 7: That's just living in the city, babe. But it's still moderately.
Speaker 8: Discussing your friend's pet cat dies and you have to
Speaker 8: pick up the dead body with your bare hands.
Speaker 7: Slightly disgusting. Well, how recently dead is it?
Speaker 2: I would say, not disgusting at all, because it's my
Speaker 2: friend's cat, and so it's an act of love.
Speaker 4: That's fine.
Speaker 7: I'm do zero too. I think I'm gonna go with
Speaker 7: a resently dead cat.
Speaker 2: Look at this next one. You see someone put ketchup
Speaker 2: on vanilla ice cream and eat it. That, to me
Speaker 2: is one of the most disgusting things that I've seen here.
Speaker 7: That's a funny.
Speaker 3: That's a four.
Speaker 8: A four for you because I appreciate how weird it is,
Speaker 8: but I'd be like, I ve a lot of weird stuff.
Speaker 3: It's jam. It's jam because it's fruit, sugar and spices.
Speaker 7: It's like strawberry syrup.
Speaker 3: It's disgusting to me.
Speaker 2: You discover that a friend of yours changes underwear only
Speaker 2: once a week, that's a three.
Speaker 7: That's very disgusting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope that it's I hope it's circumstantial and
Speaker 2: not habitual or philosophical.
Speaker 3: You're walking barefoot on concrete and you step on an earthworm.
Speaker 7: I do find that extremely disgusting.
Speaker 3: Okay, so here we go. Finally add up all your
Speaker 3: responses to all twenty five, and the total will be
Speaker 3: a number between zero in one. Ah, I'm so curious.
Speaker 4: Okay, what's yours?
Speaker 7: I got forty one.
Speaker 3: Oh, I got forty eight, pretty.
Speaker 7: Close, pretty close. Thus we're in the lower end of
Speaker 7: disgusted people.
Speaker 2: Those sirens are not coming from the road if you're
Speaker 2: driving that was in the.
Speaker 8: Park's Yeah, they're coming for us for being gross.
Speaker 2: So forty eight to forty one. Perhaps we're gonna make
Speaker 2: it in this big disgusting adventure we call life.
Speaker 5: And it's important to know this because, for example, if
Speaker 5: you marry someone.
Speaker 4: Right, are you married?
Speaker 2: I am, and I'm married to an absolutely gorgeous, wonderful slob.
Speaker 2: I'm an. I would say I'm normal. I've got normal
Speaker 2: to net and my beautiful, amazing husband. It looks like
Speaker 2: a bomb went off in his car. And for more
Speaker 2: on ADHD, you can see the Attention Deficit Neuropsychology two
Speaker 2: part episode with World ADHD expert doctor Russell Barkley, as
Speaker 2: well as part two two which has how to adhds
Speaker 2: Chesscome a Cave and Renee Brooks of Black Girl Lost Keys,
Speaker 2: and we also discuss really great resources and books for
Speaker 2: folks who have ADHD and how their family and friends
Speaker 2: can learn to stop getting mad at them all the
Speaker 2: time for the way that their brain works. He says
Speaker 2: he's messy, but he's not dirty. He hates filth, but
Speaker 2: he doesn't mind.
Speaker 5: Well, that's right, Messiness is not really disgusting, Okay. I
Speaker 5: mean to most people who are not that sensitive that
Speaker 5: you see that as disorder, but it's not the same thing.
Speaker 2: Like he changes into inside slippers when he gets in
Speaker 2: the house. He will not wear outside things into the house.
Speaker 2: And as soon as he gets home from the gym,
Speaker 2: he washes his clothes and takes a shower.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, but you see so there are lots of
Speaker 5: people who are disordered in their possessions but very.
Speaker 4: Clean m hm.
Speaker 1: I prefer everything orderly.
Speaker 2: But my office shed is home to at least seven
Speaker 2: a live spiders live in their best lives, just in
Speaker 2: these dusty webs full of dead bug husks. And my
Speaker 2: husband he does a much better job of scrubbing dishes
Speaker 2: and floors and vacuuming. Yet he does not mind at
Speaker 2: all if his desk looks like it was rated by
Speaker 2: vikings who are looking for a pen.
Speaker 5: If you're married to somebody who's very different from you
Speaker 5: and discuss, you'll have great problems with sharing a bathroom, right.
Speaker 5: For example, that's the you are not discussed that you'll
Speaker 5: use is now sure, and he would never use yours,
Speaker 5: right and gets really.
Speaker 4: Upset when you do that.
Speaker 5: And there's a lot of areas where you could have
Speaker 5: difficulty with people. It's all having to do with washing
Speaker 5: dishes and all kinds of stuff. Where I mean, if
Speaker 5: the extreme, you'd want your own silverware, hm, not to
Speaker 5: have anyone else's mouth, that's sure.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that We go out to eat all the
Speaker 2: time and don't even think about the fact that this
Speaker 2: fork was in someone else's mouth an hour ago.
Speaker 1: We don't even think about it.
Speaker 5: That's right, Well, that's the way we get around this. Yeah,
Speaker 5: we don't think about it. We don't think about the
Speaker 5: chair that we're sitting in in the restaurant at a
Speaker 5: butt of someone else's stuff against it. We don't think
Speaker 5: of the people in the kitchen, right and what they're
Speaker 5: doing with the food, you know, are they sweating into it?
Speaker 5: Who knows what they're doing unless something it hits us
Speaker 5: in the face, we don't think about it too much.
Speaker 2: Well, what about disorders like obsessive compulsive disorder And I
Speaker 2: know we people throw around OCD like I'm so OCD,
Speaker 2: but it's an actual, real disorder that doesn't.
Speaker 4: Absolutely but a lot right discuss sensitivity.
Speaker 5: There's a wide range of sensitivity and a lot of
Speaker 5: people are OCD.
Speaker 4: Ish, but they're not really.
Speaker 5: They don't meet clinical criteria, but they have some of
Speaker 5: the features, one of the features being cleanliness. It's not
Speaker 5: the only thing. One form of OCD has to do
Speaker 5: with hyper cleanliness.
Speaker 2: And fun fact, that's not the only type of OCD.
Speaker 2: This is a giant misconception. So there are other subtypes
Speaker 2: that involve symmetry and relationship questioning and sexuality questioning or
Speaker 2: intrusive or distressing thoughts like imagining violen scenarios or strict
Speaker 2: adherence to a moral code, and a distressing level of
Speaker 2: perfectionism is under that OCD umbrella as an obsession and
Speaker 2: compulsions are the behaviors repeated to try to feel better
Speaker 2: or to mitigate the anxiety, and those can range from
Speaker 2: washing hands to checking on things like locks or stoves,
Speaker 2: to just avoidance that looks like procrastination or seeking reassurance
Speaker 2: to make sure that you're not an asshole. And a
Speaker 2: lot of people have OCD behaviors that they may not
Speaker 2: even recognize because we're so used to just thinking of like, oh,
Speaker 2: everything has to be really clean, but it's encouraging to
Speaker 2: know that it can get better with the right help.
Speaker 2: Is there something Is there a part of the brain
Speaker 2: that's firing excessively in folks who are afflicted with OCD.
Speaker 5: I don't know, yeah, And I don't know if you
Speaker 5: could separate clean versus I mean, there are people who
Speaker 5: are OCD about nothing to do with discussed about the
Speaker 5: door being.
Speaker 4: Locked, you know, six times to make sure.
Speaker 5: That's very different in its manifestation from a discussed kind
Speaker 5: of OCD, but I both have the property of being
Speaker 5: repetitive overwhelming concern.
Speaker 2: I was looking at some brand new research from June
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three out of the University of Cambridge which
Speaker 2: found that OCD sufferers had higher levels of glutamate and
Speaker 2: lower levels of GABBA in the interior singular cortex part
Speaker 2: of the brain compared to people without OCD, and the
Speaker 2: severity of symptoms correlated to the amount of glutamate in
Speaker 2: the brain.
Speaker 1: And they also found that.
Speaker 2: Those with OCD like behaviors but not clinical OCD, have
Speaker 2: increased glutamate levels in one of the brain regions. Now,
Speaker 2: exposure and response prevention and more general cognitive behavioral therapy
Speaker 2: as well as SSRIs have shown to be effective treatments,
Speaker 2: but some psychiatrists are starting to use limchdahl or its
Speaker 2: generic form lamotrogen, which is an anti seizure medication, as
Speaker 2: an off label OCD therapy because it inhibits the release
Speaker 2: of glutamate in the brain, which is interesting stuff either way.
Speaker 2: I love my brain, I love your brain. And for
Speaker 2: other neurodivergent folks. This other study recently came out titled
Speaker 2: Disgust Processing and Potential Relationships with behaviors in Autism, and
Speaker 2: that explains that in autism there is evidence for differences
Speaker 2: in physical disgust processing, and research indicates that autistic folks
Speaker 2: may have higher more much lower sensory capabilities around certain things.
Speaker 2: So if you're on the spectrum and there are specific
Speaker 2: textures or tastes that like really give you the squicks
Speaker 2: and then others you're totally chilled with, that's common and
Speaker 2: it may make you more in depth at certain activities.
Speaker 2: And we all have individual thresholds and we can use
Speaker 2: them to our advantage instead of just being shamed to conforming.
Speaker 5: Doctors are probably and nurses are probably less discussed sensitive
Speaker 5: because they wouldn't have gone.
Speaker 4: Into that right.
Speaker 5: We want to deal with bodies. Yeah, so you get
Speaker 5: a lot of preselection. Extensive experience can make you more
Speaker 5: tolerance or more sensitized.
Speaker 1: Because you overcame it, your sensitivity could go down.
Speaker 5: And that's one of the issues in treating phobias. One
Speaker 5: treatment is to desensitize you to keep exposure to very
Speaker 5: weak forms of your phobia graduated. You know, there is
Speaker 5: exposure to a maximum form which could be dramatic in it,
Speaker 5: but in some cases at least it makes you, you know,
Speaker 5: you overcome the wobia, so you know you can go
Speaker 5: into a room full of spiders if you're spiderphobic.
Speaker 2: I would love a room full of spiders. I have
Speaker 2: put myself in a room full of spiders.
Speaker 1: See my office.
Speaker 4: You like to love it?
Speaker 1: I love them.
Speaker 2: I volunteered at a spider pavilion at the museum, free
Speaker 2: range spiders everywhere.
Speaker 5: We spiders run by the way. Because spiders and snakes
Speaker 5: are a mixture of fear and disgust.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a lot of point people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, an earthworm is sort of discussed.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not threatening, but a spider and snakes are
Speaker 5: dry sort of you know, they don't have that moist
Speaker 5: quality that goes along with disgusted.
Speaker 4: Anyway, are we discussing what you want?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Can I ask you questions from listeners?
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 2: They know that you're coming on, and they submitted questions
Speaker 2: for me to ask you.
Speaker 4: Oh sure, gods it's just spun on doing.
Speaker 1: Okay, good, okay.
Speaker 2: But before we get to questions, a quick break and
Speaker 2: a donation to a cause of the ologists choosing, and
Speaker 2: doctor Rosin would like it to go to Philadelphia's Interact
Speaker 2: Theater Company, which is dedicated to commissioning, developing, and processing
Speaker 2: new and contemporary plays that explore the social, political, and
Speaker 2: cultural issues of our time. So they're doing great work,
Speaker 2: so we'll send a donation in there. And we'll also
Speaker 2: send a donation to the International OCD Foundation, since we
Speaker 2: talked about them so much, who's working to clear up
Speaker 2: misconceptions about obsessive compulsive disorder, saying we know it can
Speaker 2: be difficult for members of the OCD and related disorders
Speaker 2: community to hear the term OCD misused, which can belittle
Speaker 2: the disorder and contribute to stigma that prevents many people
Speaker 2: from seeking treatment. And the International OCD Foundation provides resources
Speaker 2: for learning and treatment. So donations will go to both
Speaker 2: of those groups. Thank you to sponsors of the show
Speaker 2: for making that possible. Now, if you're a patron at
Speaker 2: patreon dot com slash ologies, you get the inside track
Speaker 2: to send questions before we record, and many of you
Speaker 2: had this insider question, including Andrew Devlin, Caitlin Palall, Scott Sheldon, TJ.
Speaker 1: McKenna and Nicole climb In.
Speaker 2: Okay, several wanted to know if you've seen the movie
Speaker 2: Inside Out by Pixar, which has a character named disgust.
Speaker 1: No, you gotta see it.
Speaker 4: It's inside Out.
Speaker 5: This is discussed, whether advising on your social life or
Speaker 5: on life little messes discussed?
Speaker 6: Is there too?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's a Pixar movie, and they represent emotions
Speaker 2: and one of the I think one of the emotions
Speaker 2: is discussed. Sorry everyone, okay, but I did look up
Speaker 2: that Pixar artists wanted really strong colors to represent those
Speaker 2: six core emotions, and that red seemed like a winner
Speaker 2: for anger.
Speaker 1: Sadness was blue, of.
Speaker 2: Course, and then discussed, which was voiced by Mindy Kayling,
Speaker 2: was a green color because, as the designers put it,
Speaker 2: when you see green food, it kind of indicates that
Speaker 2: it's gone bad. So let this be a reminder right
Speaker 2: now to just go grab your leftovers from the office
Speaker 2: for before it starts to smell like Satan's out house
Speaker 2: in there. Do it for everyone. But of course, not
Speaker 2: all disgusted is food related, and not all things trigger
Speaker 2: disgust in everyone. And then I raise my eyebrows at you.
Speaker 1: Jadine Lannon wants to know what's the deal with things
Speaker 1: that are normatively disgusting or taboo, like you're in blood
Speaker 1: feces becoming sexual fetishes.
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, first of all, we have the phenomenon, which
Speaker 5: really hasn't been studied much of disgusting features of a
Speaker 5: person becoming attractive in romantic relationships. Now, when you kiss,
Speaker 5: things exchanged saliva. But that's not salient. I mean, if
Speaker 5: you think about it, it's happening, but that's not what
Speaker 5: makes it, m M a pleasure generally speak. Well, okay,
Speaker 5: so let's just take something imagineal odor Okay, is appealing
Speaker 5: to some people, sure, disgusting to others.
Speaker 4: There are people who will not do kind of lingus
Speaker 4: males feel bad and.
Speaker 5: There are others who love it. And similarly, I think
Speaker 5: of females with falatio. Not only it's more interesting discust wise,
Speaker 5: because it's voice. Yeah, so that's a big difference right off.
Speaker 4: In response to this.
Speaker 2: Question, Listen, you can do whatever you're comfortable with. It's
Speaker 2: your body. But if you're very famous and you talk
Speaker 2: about it on a morning Zoo radio program, don't expect
Speaker 2: people to hold their opinions.
Speaker 1: DJ Collin, I don't.
Speaker 4: Do that I don't do that.
Speaker 1: I don't not even like for her birthday. Now, if
Speaker 1: she told you she don't do that, is that okay?
Speaker 4: I'm not It's not okay.
Speaker 2: So either silence is golden, or you can go by
Speaker 2: the golden rule of doing unto others what you would
Speaker 2: like done to you, Or maybe what's golden the most
Speaker 2: is showers.
Speaker 5: Now you get more into the kinky side with people
Speaker 5: who are interested in being urinated on or maybe defecated on.
Speaker 5: That's not that common in the area where something becomes
Speaker 5: that unusual fetish, certainly that includes body products. Why that's true,
Speaker 5: we don't know, and how it happens we don't know.
Speaker 2: And echoing doctor Rosen's thoughts is the opening statement of
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty one study the Psychology of Kink, a
Speaker 2: cross sectional survey study investigating the roles of sensation seeking
Speaker 2: and coping style in BDSM related interests, which size upon opening.
Speaker 2: Empirical research on the motives and underlying psychological mechanisms driving
Speaker 2: BDSM practitioners is scarce.
Speaker 1: Not a lot out there, But.
Speaker 2: Then I found this twenty twenty two study titled Current
Speaker 2: Biopsychosocial Science on Understanding Kink which off the bat answers
Speaker 2: are burning. What exactly is kink curiosity with this tight definition,
Speaker 2: so they say that kink practices can include administering or
Speaker 2: receiving intense sensation, including but not limited to pain, eroticizing,
Speaker 2: the expression of power and authority differences, being aroused by
Speaker 2: usual sensual stimuli, including specific non genital body parts or
Speaker 2: inanimate objects quote fetish, perhaps engaging in roleplay of erotic scenarios,
Speaker 2: and engaging in activities that induce shifts and changes in consciousness,
Speaker 2: which is called headspace in kink subcultures. It clues us
Speaker 2: in with and if you're like oh freaks. The study
Speaker 2: continues to say that research finds forty five to sixty
Speaker 2: percent of people fantasize about kink, but only twenty to
Speaker 2: forty seven percent act on those desires, and that the
Speaker 2: literature suggests that participants remain highly stigmatized, including by some clinicians,
Speaker 2: although no studies have found any psychopathological conditions that distinguish
Speaker 2: a group of people involved in kank from those who
Speaker 2: are not involved, generally showing that the prevalence of previous
Speaker 2: trauma and abuse experiences, especially by those who enjoy masochism
Speaker 2: is slightly lower in kink E folks than the general population,
Speaker 2: So big shrug here. Let people do what they want
Speaker 2: if they're not hurting anyone else unless that person asked
Speaker 2: them to hurt them and gave enthusiastic consent. But on
Speaker 2: the topic of rooting around past childhood experiences bass cliffs,
Speaker 2: you see third Bridge Shakira Alahi, Gen Pompeo, Edward McGregor
Speaker 2: and Earl of Grammagan asked, in Vass's words, why are
Speaker 2: we not grossed out by things when we're kids, but
Speaker 2: they become really off putting as adults.
Speaker 4: Well, because I'm the great example of that.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 5: Species, Right, little kids one year olds like agree and
Speaker 5: something about toilet training. Contagion is a major feature of
Speaker 5: discussed when something touches something else something discussed and touches
Speaker 5: something else that renders it in edible. Right, you would
Speaker 5: need your favorite food of a cockroach across it or species. Now,
Speaker 5: that doesn't appear until about four years of age. Toilet
Speaker 5: training occurs in our culture well before four, not in
Speaker 5: all cultures, but in our cultures, so that a kid
Speaker 5: who's at three years of age in our culture who
Speaker 5: doesn't who says PC.
Speaker 4: You know, you show them PC, they say, ooh, but
Speaker 4: if it touches something that they like, they'll still eat it. Really,
Speaker 4: so that that comes in at about.
Speaker 1: Four maybe they're establishing their microbiome.
Speaker 5: Still, well, then that's a that's a different kind of account. Okay,
Speaker 5: you're trying to show what's how it might serve you
Speaker 5: a function that doesn't explain how it actually happens. But yes,
Speaker 5: you could make a statement like that. But you know,
Speaker 5: there are people who are much less concerned about this
Speaker 5: sort of thing, sharing food all and stuff like that,
Speaker 5: which many people find disgusting at a dinner table.
Speaker 4: Some people don't want to share other people's food. Right,
Speaker 4: If you bite something no one or someone else doesn't
Speaker 4: want other people, that's fine.
Speaker 5: Yeah, never mind if they love you, that's yet another thing.
Speaker 5: But even if they don't love you, or you know,
Speaker 5: if somebody at the next table in a restaurant is
Speaker 5: eating something you think it's what I'm looking But you
Speaker 5: would you mind them out piece?
Speaker 4: You wouldn't know it. I know people have done it.
Speaker 4: At the point is you don't want their cutting a
Speaker 4: piece of it.
Speaker 5: Given right, it might make a big difference to some
Speaker 5: people whether they cut it off with a knife, so
Speaker 5: they cut them a piece that they've just never touched
Speaker 5: their lips right, well, they used therefore, which would be contaminating.
Speaker 5: So there's some people who be very sensitive to that
Speaker 5: and other people who wouldn't even pay attention.
Speaker 2: As we've evolved as a species, do you think that
Speaker 2: our discuss tolerance has changed? And a lot of people
Speaker 2: wanted to know how much of it is learned versus extinctive,
Speaker 2: how much is nature versus nurture, which was on the
Speaker 2: minds of Justiny, Richie Brook Hicks, Anthony Willis, Alliameyer's, Brit Klein,
Speaker 2: Mariah Walser, Patricia Evans, Heather Horton, Whedon, Samantha and Earl
Speaker 2: of gramblcan Oh and Marie Strombum Johnson for stop question,
Speaker 2: Jaska and Nico Price.
Speaker 5: There's a sense in which it's all nurtured, a sense
Speaker 5: in which in the sense that little babies don't show
Speaker 5: any distuff.
Speaker 4: Discussed as universal.
Speaker 5: Probably the original discuss is something to be avoided, you know,
Speaker 5: for health reasons.
Speaker 4: My guess is we're predisposed, yeah.
Speaker 5: Biologically to avoid things that for example, smell bad, spoil
Speaker 5: it smell is the smell of disgust.
Speaker 2: And is that why bodies smell like inherently so disgusting
Speaker 2: to people like I always read that once you smell
Speaker 2: a dead body, you never forget the odor.
Speaker 5: Well, it depends when the body died, right the king?
Speaker 5: Human flesh? Does it smell different from de kaying other
Speaker 5: animals flesh?
Speaker 4: I don't know, but.
Speaker 5: I'm quite ready to believe that there's a tendency where
Speaker 5: it's predisposed to learn that that kind of smell is bad.
Speaker 2: Oh shoot, I had long notes here for a hole acide,
Speaker 2: but I'll cut to the chase. So there are these
Speaker 2: two compounds that are notable in dead flesh smell, and
Speaker 2: they are wonderfully named cadaverine and putresine. And then there's
Speaker 2: another compound benzaldehyde, and that also comes off a core.
Speaker 2: And the last one is said to have like the
Speaker 2: sickeningly sweet, almost almond like smell, And apparently bath and
Speaker 2: bodywork scent Cherry Crisp smells a lot like a dead
Speaker 2: person or a dying person because it has this benzalde hide,
Speaker 2: and so does Tom Ford's very high end scent Lost Cherry,
Speaker 2: because they both have Benzalda hide in them, and folks
Speaker 2: on TikTok were up in dead arms about this, and
Speaker 2: I was comment surfing and I saw some great opinions
Speaker 2: such as, OMG, I've smelled a deceased person and I
Speaker 2: know exactly what the sweet smell she's talking about is.
Speaker 2: It's the worst sweet smell ever. And another person said, interesting,
Speaker 2: I remember someone died in my apartment building and it
Speaker 2: smelled like rotten meat with old period blood in my opinion.
Speaker 2: And then another person weighed in and said that dead
Speaker 2: people smell like rotting meat, bad armpit stink, and a
Speaker 2: weird sweet cologne. In that the sweet smell is the
Speaker 2: creepiest because it smells human. So if you would like
Speaker 2: to get a whiff, if you have a dark sensibility,
Speaker 2: I guess start with the sprits of tom Ford lost cherry. Apparently,
Speaker 2: on one post about it TikTok, Savannah simply commented tomb
Speaker 2: forward nice.
Speaker 5: Well, then you think of all these people you know,
Speaker 5: many of them who like stinky cheese.
Speaker 4: Now they like that smell, but only.
Speaker 5: If it's coming from cheese. If you say to them,
Speaker 5: here's something sniff and they smells, it's cheese.
Speaker 4: That's say. They don't know that.
Speaker 5: If you say this is a piece of limburger, Oh
Speaker 5: smells great, you say, oh, I'm sorry, that's catchit.
Speaker 4: You said, oh my god, that's the same smell.
Speaker 1: So s I know.
Speaker 2: If you wonder why some feet smell like cheese, you
Speaker 2: can think the teeny tiny tiny brevibacteria, which both lives
Speaker 2: on our skin to gobble up dead skin cells like
Speaker 2: its own charcuterie board, and it also ripens many cheeses,
Speaker 2: such as munster and limburger. So it's not that your
Speaker 2: feet smell cheesy. It's probably that your cheese smells footy.
Speaker 2: Have you ever seen those sketches where someone says, oh
Speaker 2: this smells awful, smell this, hey, Kevin.
Speaker 7: Kevin, you've got to try this, milk man. It's so
Speaker 7: far gone.
Speaker 4: It's on real. Oh stop the music.
Speaker 1: That is bad. Why do you think we do that?
Speaker 5: Yes, that's a very very common thing. People like this
Speaker 5: is what I was talking about before about an audion masochism.
Speaker 5: People like to experience negative things in a safe context.
Speaker 4: Now that's a very safe context. They're saying your smell it.
Speaker 4: They're not going to kid you with doctson or anything.
Speaker 5: Yeah, people are very complicated, so they're enjoying what's negative.
Speaker 5: Some people probably enjoy defecating, other people don't.
Speaker 4: If you said to some everyone, No.
Speaker 5: One's asked this question as far as I know, would
Speaker 5: you rather have be a person who didn't.
Speaker 4: Have to have the deficate?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 4: Some people would say no, and some people would say.
Speaker 1: Yes they might some people might say, don't take that
Speaker 1: away from me.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a pleasure of expelling stuff. So we differ
Speaker 5: on all these things. Yes, I assume it's the less
Speaker 5: discussion instead of people who are more likely to enjoy deification,
Speaker 5: well even urination.
Speaker 2: Right, Sometimes being feels great, You're like, but maybe that's
Speaker 2: the relief thing of being like, ah, I'm no longer
Speaker 2: in danger.
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, you're getting rid of heated stuff,
Speaker 5: so that that could be a positive thing.
Speaker 4: And in addition, there's a there is a pleasure.
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, the actual actentification producers and put
Speaker 5: to your brain from your ainus, and that could be positive.
Speaker 5: And there are people who you know, sit on the
Speaker 5: pod for half an hour reading the newspaper and they
Speaker 5: love it, and other people who just want to do
Speaker 5: it and get it over with it. I wish I
Speaker 5: didn't have to do it. These are fascinating issues. They're
Speaker 5: discussed on a day to day basis.
Speaker 2: I have two more listener questions. Now, there's something called
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure if you've heard of this. You
Speaker 2: don't strike me as someone who spends a lot of
Speaker 2: time on TikTok.
Speaker 5: No, I've never been on tico exactly, or by the way,
Speaker 5: I've never been on face face Facebook.
Speaker 4: On Facebook, don't bother garbage.
Speaker 2: It's all garbage. Your life is so much better. But
Speaker 2: there is something on TikTok that is called the ick.
Speaker 1: Have you heard of this?
Speaker 2: It is the ick is when you're attracted to someone
Speaker 2: or maybe you like them, and then suddenly they do something.
Speaker 1: That just just the ick like.
Speaker 2: It might be the way they eat a sandwich. It
Speaker 2: might be the way that they ride a bike.
Speaker 4: So it's not always disgusting, it's the way they ride
Speaker 4: a bike.
Speaker 2: There's something in Laurel's words and also from Naomi Jane
Speaker 2: and Migile's, Isabel Brooks, Hannah Michael, and Yes, Laurel asked,
Speaker 2: when it comes to dating and relationships, why is there
Speaker 2: such a sudden irreversible trigger that's sometimes so arbitrary, And
Speaker 2: I'm wondering where is discussed and contempt. You said, anger
Speaker 2: draws you close because you want to maybe hurt or
Speaker 2: engage with someone. But what is it that you just
Speaker 2: say no with a the person or a situation.
Speaker 4: Okay, so you.
Speaker 5: Could ask people, here's this person you like, m you
Speaker 5: it turns out he drinks is your.
Speaker 4: Now does that kill it? I'm just asking you. You
Speaker 4: see that could be that could contaminate the person.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, No, that makes me say the guy's got
Speaker 2: to do a lot of toothbrushing and a lot of
Speaker 2: liistering for me to be drawn in.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but suppose you're even not even in a romantic
Speaker 5: friend your friend gives animates the people in the.
Speaker 2: Hospital or something that doesn't bother me as much as
Speaker 2: someone who like over pronounces something in a language in
Speaker 2: which they're not fluent. You know, someone who does cringey
Speaker 2: behaviors that are just like like.
Speaker 4: Well, there's there's cringey behavior. There's a lot of cringey
Speaker 4: things that have nothing to do with discuss Okay.
Speaker 2: So the ITGG has been described by some psychologists as
Speaker 2: a shame anger disgust and embarrassment. And some people say
Speaker 2: it is a gut reaction that that person is not
Speaker 2: right for you, and others say that's not true. It's
Speaker 2: a manifestation of avoidant attachment issues that you should work through.
Speaker 2: So your mileage may vary, but don't talk yourself into
Speaker 2: something you don't want. But also keep in mind we
Speaker 2: all have x I ick myself daily and I just
Speaker 2: have to deal with it. I'm never going to break
Speaker 2: up with myself.
Speaker 5: By the way, you get used to everything, right, But
Speaker 5: you know, when you make a decision right now, might
Speaker 5: I wouldn't deal with that person, and then it might
Speaker 5: turn out that if you after you get.
Speaker 4: Used to it.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, we talked a lot in the beginning
Speaker 2: about Hitler being a disgusting figure, but where does xenophobia
Speaker 2: come into play when it comes into disgust and people
Speaker 2: who might have racist or xenophobic tendencies. This was also
Speaker 2: asked by listener Gemma, who wanted to know about decolonizing disgust.
Speaker 2: Are they finding disgusted in things that they're at.
Speaker 5: It might be finding this For example, if someone from
Speaker 5: the despised group could be a race, could be anything,
Speaker 5: touch something, would they not want to hold it? Would
Speaker 5: they would be unwilling to weigh use blowing that was
Speaker 5: worn by an X, where an X is.
Speaker 1: Someone that group to take Yeah, really too right.
Speaker 5: And we can use that as a criterion for discuss
Speaker 5: then certainly, I'm sure some xenophobia manifests.
Speaker 4: That way that you don't want anything.
Speaker 2: To do with their bodies or lightning that's exciting, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's good lightning. And there is some research to be had,
Speaker 2: like the twenty twenty three paper Body Odor discuss sensitivity
Speaker 2: is associated with xenophobia, evidence from nine countries across five continents,
Speaker 2: and the twenty nineteen address how and why discussed responses
Speaker 2: underlie prejudice, which notes that people treat an atypical appearance
Speaker 2: as a stronger sign of unfamiliar pathogens.
Speaker 1: And then there's also this paper that came out.
Speaker 2: Discussed is a factor in Extreme prejudice, which notes that
Speaker 2: bigotry may be distinguished by high levels of disgust.
Speaker 1: So we've learned.
Speaker 2: That disgust crops up in situations where things won't actually
Speaker 2: harm us, but bigotry is harmful. Hence, bigotry is worthy
Speaker 2: of disgust much more so than discussed over touching an earthworm.
Speaker 2: What about Julia Taylor and me want to know what's
Speaker 2: the most disgusting thing you've ever encountered, and was it
Speaker 2: smelly or gory or psychologically upsetting? What is the grossest
Speaker 2: thing about your work or the thing that you like
Speaker 2: the least.
Speaker 5: I have not experienced this, but a rotting human body
Speaker 5: would probably be about his disgusting, as I've fortunately not
Speaker 5: experience that. Knock on wood on the battlefield, you might
Speaker 5: run into it. At a hospital, you might run into it,
Speaker 5: but not normally because your body isn't rotten when you
Speaker 5: first died. It's put into the freezer, whether figureat.
Speaker 4: It right away.
Speaker 5: But of course the police run into this buried bodies
Speaker 5: and stuff. I would suspect that that would be the
Speaker 5: the most and you might expect that it should be.
Speaker 5: I mean, because it's it's about meat, and it's about decay,
Speaker 5: and there's nothing more sensitive than human meats.
Speaker 1: And just buckle up.
Speaker 2: We got a casual revelation coming here.
Speaker 5: I'm not terribly disgusted personally by the prospect of eating
Speaker 5: human flesh.
Speaker 4: If I knew that someone wasn't killed for this.
Speaker 2: Oh, if someone say donated their body to like a barbecue.
Speaker 5: Yeah, if a person died and right after that some
Speaker 5: of their muscle was harvested, I would be interested in
Speaker 5: just tasting it. By the way, I'm saying that, when
Speaker 5: I actually faste it.
Speaker 4: I might not be right.
Speaker 5: But I think that I'm curious about that, and I
Speaker 5: don't feel widely disgusted by that.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 2: I do feel like a lot of say, campaigns towards
Speaker 2: having a plant based diet and eliminating meter campaign's pro
Speaker 2: vegetarianism use disgusted as a factor in maybe discouraging meat consumption.
Speaker 5: Yes, and and showing people pictures of the way animals
Speaker 5: are treated that can be a form of disgust. Absolutely,
Speaker 5: And since going toward a plant based diet is agreed
Speaker 5: by most people who are worried about the environment to
Speaker 5: be a very good idea, I do it will work
Speaker 5: on sustainability, Oh yes, psychology of sustainability. So yeah, I
Speaker 5: think that discust is working in the favor of sustainability
Speaker 5: because it's animal foods that are disgusting, and so we
Speaker 5: have this funny ambivalence about animal foods. We don't have
Speaker 5: ambivalence about vegetables.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I like their taste.
Speaker 5: But we don't feel is anything deeply wrong with eating
Speaker 5: a piece of asparagus, right, We're not upset about pain
Speaker 5: that it might produce.
Speaker 2: Right, as someone who may have gotten salmonella from a
Speaker 2: cantelope a month or so ago, I should be forever
Speaker 2: disgusted by melons, we should have not a good relationship.
Speaker 2: But no, I had some honeydew yesterday. No ancestors warned
Speaker 2: or forbade me from diner fruit cup salmonella outbreaks. So
Speaker 2: thanks for nothing. And the Bible doesn't have any passages
Speaker 2: about like definitely don't eat broccoli on a Sunday, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean.
Speaker 5: I feel like you almost all prohibitions, as I said,
Speaker 5: are about meat.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm, yeah that's right.
Speaker 5: So discuss this working in favor of sustainability. Yeah, a
Speaker 5: favorite vegetarian.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not mad at that.
Speaker 2: I feel like if you asked me to go kill
Speaker 2: a hog, I would say, O, absolutely not. But if
Speaker 2: you asked me to have a piece of bacon, I'd
Speaker 2: say sure or not. So I think it's maybe coming
Speaker 2: to terms with exactly what we're willing to do based
Speaker 2: on what we see or smell or you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Like I think it's a.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm a partial vegetarian. Yeah, I become that in
Speaker 5: the last ten years.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: There are three kinds of vegetarians sort of. I mean
Speaker 5: some people are all three. There's health vegetarians, which I
Speaker 5: am not. Then there is there are environmental vegetarians. There
Speaker 5: are sustainability vegetaria. I'm sympathetic with that, but that's not
Speaker 5: my hormotive. My chrmotive is compassionate. I don't like the
Speaker 5: idea of killing animals.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel you.
Speaker 5: I don't want to be a party to that by
Speaker 5: eating meat. Now, I do eat fish, and I do
Speaker 5: eat the shellfish, and so I'm a little bit hypocritical
Speaker 5: and I'm sensitive to that. I don't like that either.
Speaker 5: But a lobster or shrimp that's a moving animal.
Speaker 1: No, they can live forever.
Speaker 5: In terms of sustainability, if you cut your meat and
Speaker 5: take fifty percent, you're doing a good job.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's great to know and it's great to hear it.
Speaker 2: It's something that I'm moving toward as well. But last
Speaker 2: question I always have to ask is what's your favorite
Speaker 2: thing about your work?
Speaker 1: What do you love the most well.
Speaker 4: I love teaching.
Speaker 5: I love exposed not so much about discuss but I
Speaker 5: do teach you a little about that. But I like
Speaker 5: to open student size to the wonders of the world
Speaker 5: and to how we can actually find out things like
Speaker 5: what's going on in the head without looking without looking
Speaker 5: in the head indirectly, I'd love to show them that.
Speaker 5: So I care a lot about teaching preparing people to
Speaker 5: be good thinkers in the modern world.
Speaker 4: I like to find things out.
Speaker 5: I enjoy being puzzled by something and then saying I
Speaker 5: wonder what's going on there, and being able to say, well, here,
Speaker 5: I have some idea, Now what what's going on? I
Speaker 5: love to look at the world and see something that
Speaker 5: doesn't make sense to me. My first study on food
Speaker 5: was why would people eat hot pepper when it tastes
Speaker 5: so bad?
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a great question.
Speaker 2: Have you ever seen You probably haven't seen this on YouTube,
Speaker 2: but it's called hot Ones. It's celebrity interviews with people
Speaker 2: who are you know, great actors and serious Oscar winning actors.
Speaker 2: And they're in a room with a bunch of hot wings.
Speaker 2: Then they go from mild to call an ambulance, and
Speaker 2: they see how far can get and it's people like
Speaker 2: Kate Blanchett and Paul Rudd and you. They're in so
Speaker 2: much pain. But it's something that once again we hate
Speaker 2: to have it after us. We don't mind watching it then, but.
Speaker 4: No, but we like it until it gets to paint.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was what got me onto Benign Massive. It
Speaker 5: was eating hot chili pepper and I worked. I did
Speaker 5: some work in a Mexican village on it, and everyone
Speaker 5: in the village over four or five eats hot pepper
Speaker 5: and likes it. And none of the animals in the
Speaker 5: village though, even though they eat it because they eat
Speaker 5: the garbage. Yeah, so they eat hot pepper, but they
Speaker 5: don't get to like it. So that was to me saying,
Speaker 5: there's something about humans here, and it turns out it
Speaker 5: is about humans.
Speaker 1: We have too much brains for our own good. Huh.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well these are these are sort of side effects
Speaker 5: of having a big brain.
Speaker 4: There are many side effects of having a big brain.
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, once once you've got this brain
Speaker 5: that can do all sorts of things and imaginations, all
Speaker 5: kinds of things.
Speaker 1: Happen and they're fascinating.
Speaker 2: Just to heads up, there's a new Mexico chili pepper
Speaker 2: scientist very much on my list. I'm coming for you.
Speaker 2: I'm coming in hot, but that is in the future
Speaker 2: and right now, let's shutt up our discust.
Speaker 1: What a great time. Thank you so much for talking
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: So ask delightful people disgusting questions because you might find
Speaker 2: yourself chatting about hot peppers and hopefully consensual cannibalism just
Speaker 2: in the middle of a thunderstorm. Now we have linked
Speaker 2: more about doctor Rosin in the show notes. Thank you
Speaker 2: doctor Rosin so much for doing this along with the
Speaker 2: Charities of Choice. And no, you will not find his
Speaker 2: handle on TikTok anytime soon if you want to be
Speaker 2: online friends. But we are at Ologies on Twitter and Instagram.
Speaker 2: I'm on both as Ali Ward. Ali has one l
Speaker 2: I'm doing a terrible job on TikTok, but i am there.
Speaker 2: We also have Smologies episodes, which are filth free. They're
Speaker 2: cleaned up for kids. They're shorter versions of our classics.
Speaker 2: To join the Ologies Patreon and leave questions for guests,
Speaker 2: you can head over to patreon dot com slash Ologies,
Speaker 2: where it costs one dollar a month to join. Ology
Speaker 2: s merch is available at the link in the show
Speaker 2: notes to thank you to Aaron Talbert for managing the
Speaker 2: Ologies podcast Facebook group, Aveline Maleick and the word to
Speaker 2: remake our professional transcripts. Noel Dilworth is scheduling producer. Susan
Speaker 2: Hale is our managing director. Kelly ar Dwyer makes the website.
Speaker 2: We welcome brand new second editor Jake Chaffee into the fold.
Speaker 2: Jake is amazing. We're getting ready for a little exciting
Speaker 2: shift and an addition in programming, debuting on May sixteenth,
Speaker 2: Summer calendars for that folks, our lead editor is a
Speaker 2: very palatable Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio. Nick Thorburn made
Speaker 2: the theme music. And if you stick around un till
Speaker 2: the end of the episode, I tell you a secret.
Speaker 2: And this is one of the most disgusting things that
Speaker 2: has ever happened to me ever, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: tell you about it.
Speaker 1: So, during this.
Speaker 2: Trip to Philly, I overscheduled myself in a way that
Speaker 2: could have actually killed me. I'm surprised it. I did
Speaker 2: ten interviews in like three or four days. I did
Speaker 2: a keynote to five thousand people, I had a ton
Speaker 2: of meetings, and then I had an immediate flight to
Speaker 2: Catalina Island to teach this symposium.
Speaker 1: Stress was high, sleep was little. I was not doing well.
Speaker 2: So when I got home, I started to come down
Speaker 2: with pneumonia, as you may remember I had in July. Now,
Speaker 2: at the same time, flies started appearing in our house,
Speaker 2: like not tiny fruit flies, not cute fruit flies, like big, hairy,
Speaker 2: gross flies. No idea where they came from. First there's
Speaker 2: just one or two and we're like, ohh. And then
Speaker 2: over the course of a week we were killing like
Speaker 2: thirty flies a day. I couldn't take it. Jarrett has
Speaker 2: this thing called an assault rifle, and it shoots like
Speaker 2: a high powered mist of table salt.
Speaker 1: This thing is deadly and effective against bugs. I'm it's
Speaker 1: not humane. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: I couldn't deal with them inside. Does it aerosolize flyguts
Speaker 2: and then you breathe them in. We're not going to
Speaker 2: think about it. But my anxiety was through the roof,
Speaker 2: being so sick of with these disgusting, iridescent bottle flies everywhere.
Speaker 2: We kept all the door shut, we sealed up all
Speaker 2: the cracks, and they kept finding their way in, and
Speaker 2: we eventually we killed them all and about a week later,
Speaker 2: I took out our swiffer from the broom closet and
Speaker 2: I saw fly egg cases in the back corner.
Speaker 1: And what had happened was this one.
Speaker 2: Bitch fly laid eggs in a swiffer wet Jet maxi
Speaker 2: pad thing, and I hadn't taken off the dirty one
Speaker 2: before shoving in the closet, so they just nested in there.
Speaker 2: That's where they were coming from. They were hatching out
Speaker 2: of a swiff wet Jet maxipad. And anyway, it was
Speaker 2: truly a blight on my mental health. I think about
Speaker 2: it and I start choking with anxiety. Anyway, remove the
Speaker 2: old swiffer thing before storing it, because I didn't know
Speaker 2: that this horror show was even possible. Also, we have
Speaker 2: a whole episode on flies, and I try to get
Speaker 2: us to light flies. We're doing our best over here,
Speaker 2: all right. Also, I can't remember if I've told you
Speaker 2: the secret before, but I feel like it's so embarrassing.
Speaker 2: I probably haven't. If I have, I hope you got
Speaker 2: the detail that you've been craving. Anyway, I'm sorry, flies,
Speaker 2: Just please go find a dead possum or something instead
Speaker 2: of a mop. If only I was able to make
Speaker 2: hot dogs out of the flies. I'm gonna actual gagging.
Speaker 1: I took that too far. I took it too Pull
Speaker 1: it back, okay for.
Speaker 2: By hacadermatology, homiology or doo zoology, lithology, technology, meteorology, pole
Speaker 2: of metatology, nathology, seriology, selenology.
Speaker 4: That's gross.
Speaker 1: I love it.