Speaker 1: The artist formerly known as Prince Andrew got Randy label lost,
Speaker 1: the dodgy man called Bandy Wigan and Hu k art
Speaker 1: in Fine and Andy and Perth wants someone that could
Speaker 1: be Handy. Mandleson left in disgrace for reasons we know.
Speaker 1: But why did Oldham's Mike Ford up and go? London
Speaker 1: beat Oldham? But that wasn't the news. Lee and John
Speaker 1: are here to give you their views. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: eighth episode of super League three sixty. Here podcast primarily
Speaker 1: about the top tier of British rugby league, but increasingly, John,
Speaker 1: we seem to be going down into the championship lately.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to say that's the best intro podcasting
Speaker 2: I've ever heard.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. I'd like to thank all my family.
Speaker 2: Now we do dip into the championship. I mean the
Speaker 2: Championship is two rounds in and Super League kicks off
Speaker 2: in nine days as we record this, so we will
Speaker 2: we will switch focus. But yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 2: they chamionshit. There's some great stories and there well there
Speaker 2: has been and it's very different, as you know to
Speaker 2: the NRL where you know and you so well queens
Speaker 2: and doesn't really get talked about in connection with the NRL,
Speaker 2: but it is different in because of promotion and relegation historically,
Speaker 2: it is different in England.
Speaker 1: Didn't even introduce ourselves. My name is Lee and.
Speaker 2: My name is John Davidson. I think if people have
Speaker 2: been listening this for eight episodes they might work that out.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we added some poet laureate. I'm a coach
Speaker 1: in Australia who's obviously not got an Australian accent. I've
Speaker 1: been here a while. John's a journal in the UK
Speaker 1: and you work out he doesn't have an English Well,
Speaker 1: I would argue sometimes you don't have an Australian accent.
Speaker 1: If Susan in the world considered considering your based in Yorkshire,
Speaker 1: you have some mank in your accent somehow. But I
Speaker 1: don't know how that works, but I do. I do
Speaker 1: recommend that if you want to know a little bit
Speaker 1: more about us, please read the description or listen to
Speaker 1: some old pods, because, like John hinted at, we've been
Speaker 1: doing stuff for a while. We did the Ashes Rugby
Speaker 1: League podcast in twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five, sorry jeez,
Speaker 1: and now we've switched to a Super League three sixty
Speaker 1: and everybody who followed us on ASHES Rugby League. You'll
Speaker 1: probably still listening to this on ASHES Rugby League, but
Speaker 1: please switch over to Super League three sixty so that
Speaker 1: I have to do less work in the next week
Speaker 1: or two. But you can always listen to it on
Speaker 1: the Rugby League Coach platforms and on the Rugby League
Speaker 1: Coach YouTube channel two, so if you subscribe to those,
Speaker 1: you won't miss a thing. John, your tweets of the week,
Speaker 1: you've been a little quiet. Imagine we're recording in a
Speaker 1: shorter window, aren't we. We've not had seven days in between.
Speaker 1: The tweeter I want to bring up from you was
Speaker 1: a tweet that you were talking about the London crowd.
Speaker 1: You said, not seeing a figure look smaller than the
Speaker 1: Witness game, maybe three thousand, with a question mark which
Speaker 1: suggests you're app was there three thousand?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'd actually asked someone who was at the game
Speaker 2: who didn't know another journalist, and I had no idea
Speaker 2: what the crowd was. I knew it was smaller than
Speaker 2: the well just using my eyes as as a measure,
Speaker 2: smaller than a Witness game, which I also watched on YouTube.
Speaker 2: And my guess was somewhere between two thousand and you know,
Speaker 2: three thousand. Yeah, I had no idea.
Speaker 1: And Caer and Bradford Bulls on X accused you of
Speaker 1: exaggerating attendance figures for a club. I'm pretty sure you
Speaker 1: were asking a question.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if comprehension in the
Speaker 2: UK is what it was previously or education. But you
Speaker 2: know it wasn't a statement of fact, it was a legit.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it was a question. I don't know
Speaker 2: how anyone could misunderstand that.
Speaker 1: Or I did a video on my Rugby League Coach
Speaker 1: platforms from my Rugby League Coach podcast, and I was
Speaker 1: talking about how wrestling can often so can often be
Speaker 1: a symptom of a poor tackle in terms of technique.
Speaker 1: So I was encouraging coaches not to be obsessed with
Speaker 1: the wrestle over over contact. So in other words, make
Speaker 1: sure you put the contact in before you do the wrestle.
Speaker 1: And some of the comments I've had people telling me
Speaker 1: how important the rookie is. You know rooks, and we
Speaker 1: all know the root wins the game, blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and they're just completely missing my point because they've decided
Speaker 1: not to listen to the words is often well yeah,
Speaker 1: and that well we're we're wordsmith's a little bit, aren't we?
Speaker 1: Like we we do listen to what each other says
Speaker 1: and and read what people say and then respond to that.
Speaker 1: Where some people just gat the Rugby League tweet of
Speaker 1: the week, I think undoubtedly and some Australians won't know this,
Speaker 1: but Mike Ford's resignation I told him and it was tweeted,
Speaker 1: and his son George piled in and we'll go into this.
Speaker 1: We'll go into this in a moment, Mike said. Mike
Speaker 1: Ford said the direction of travel of the club is
Speaker 1: not something that I feel I can be part of.
Speaker 1: And his son George expressed his pride in his daddy
Speaker 1: and said, it's a travesty has had to come down
Speaker 1: to this. Sport is a funny way of exposing the
Speaker 1: truth as to why things happen. The team and people
Speaker 1: are always more important than an individual. So we'll unpack
Speaker 1: that a bit soon, John. But this was this was
Speaker 1: this was something to wake up to one day. This
Speaker 1: was this was good on one day, like, oh, what's
Speaker 1: going on here? I think you were out with family
Speaker 1: on Sunday and and got the news I watched.
Speaker 2: I watched the first half of the Oldham Landing game.
Speaker 2: In the second half I was in a pool with
Speaker 2: my kids taking the swimming. But yeah, the fact that
Speaker 2: that that came out or that tweet came out literally
Speaker 2: I think just after full time and that the photo
Speaker 2: that used was was was I've got that.
Speaker 1: I've got that in he's laughed, so don't talk to him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just it was pretty shocking. Apparently the club
Speaker 1: knew that it was going to happen, but it was
Speaker 1: a fairly shocking. Way I went out to nakes it.
Speaker 1: I would say, get a job, ready to because you
Speaker 1: didn't send me a job. You didn't you didn't jab me.
Speaker 1: This week Socials pop at Lee of the Week A
Speaker 1: post I did about the Aussie's the Australian squad not
Speaker 1: being the best even though they won three nil. A
Speaker 1: video did where I said there was too many cooks
Speaker 1: in the team so tactically when I analyzed the game,
Speaker 1: it seemed obvious to me too many people were trying
Speaker 1: to play in pivotal roles and not leaving it to
Speaker 1: the halves basically. And I must have done that post
Speaker 1: three months ago three and a half months ago. It's
Speaker 1: still going John. Yesterday, Norman Buffalo said to me, quote
Speaker 1: you're cooked because I said there was too many cooks
Speaker 1: in the kitchen. And he replied to me, Norm said
Speaker 1: you're cooked. I replied, you're slow because the post months
Speaker 1: Ruben von Lichtenstein a week ago. I missed it. It
Speaker 1: should have been in last week's podcast.
Speaker 2: Is that is that? Count Reuben?
Speaker 1: It sounds like it sounds like a European Parliament senator.
Speaker 2: It sounds like a Transylvanian prince or something.
Speaker 1: The Transylvanian prince said, quote, who the f is this?
Speaker 1: T w A T hey hole, d head? You sees
Speaker 1: got belted three nil. So the f is rounds with book,
Speaker 1: the t W A t you can spell like yourself,
Speaker 1: d head Richard head, and you sees is rounds with hunt.
Speaker 2: I dosed that message. It sounds.
Speaker 1: I replied, thanks beautiful. And then and then sometimes when
Speaker 1: somebody really abuses me, I have a look at the profiles.
Speaker 1: If it's a hidden profile. And he actually lives in Brisbane,
Speaker 1: so I invited him out for a beer to discuss
Speaker 1: his thoughts about me and the Bradford thing is still
Speaker 1: going about jab Peacock. But the thing that I went,
Speaker 1: all the partner went, did he play for Bradford?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah right, it shouldn't have forgotten. It shouldn't have forgotten.
Speaker 1: And it's that old. I had a Christmas hat on
Speaker 1: on the video, so and I promise you I don't
Speaker 1: wear them in January and some fella on YouTube had
Speaker 1: a go at me and said I had something against
Speaker 1: London because my analysis showed their faults. I had to
Speaker 1: explain that I'm a coach and it's called analysis.
Speaker 2: It's a tough one. I understand that. I mean an
Speaker 2: else's video that looked at strengths and weaknesses is.
Speaker 1: Apparently have got something against London. I just said.
Speaker 2: In my experience though, a lot of clubs and a
Speaker 2: lot of coaches are very anal about you know, how
Speaker 2: they train and people finding out, you know, what they do,
Speaker 2: and behind closed doors and training sessions they don't they
Speaker 2: don't like and I'm talking about in all walks of rugby.
Speaker 2: They don't like people, you know. I don't think they're
Speaker 2: generally reinventing the will, but they don't like people knowing.
Speaker 2: So I'm sure there are people who actually don't show
Speaker 2: you know, don't show the weaknesses of London because someone
Speaker 2: else will watching it and given away.
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, I did a show called
Speaker 1: Queensland League Scene and it was hosted by Taylor Brown
Speaker 1: and John Devine and Taylor Brown's an ex player of
Speaker 1: mine and went on to play Queensland Cup. And I
Speaker 1: used to do an analysis segment every week and the
Speaker 1: analysis segment was very popular, as you can imagine, and
Speaker 1: apparently Taylor used to get calls every week off the coaches,
Speaker 1: who the f is this pomme b because basically I
Speaker 1: had found all the weaknesses in their side there was
Speaker 1: And there was one coach who took the exact opposite
Speaker 1: view of that. He's won premierships and he actually asked
Speaker 1: me to do more analysis for his team and he's
Speaker 1: probably the most successful coach in that competition in the
Speaker 1: last few years and has also coached elsewhere, so tells
Speaker 1: its own story if you ask me, we had plenty
Speaker 1: of questions. John sam Grundy asks how long will the
Speaker 1: quicker rook be allowed before they changed their minds again,
Speaker 1: he's referring to the rule changes in England or the
Speaker 1: interpretation changes. The game seems to swing like a pendulum
Speaker 1: when you look at how it's been refereed over the
Speaker 1: last couple of decades, is so right?
Speaker 2: Is so right?
Speaker 1: So how long? How long will it last this time?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to It's hard to know because it
Speaker 2: seems to be there's a crack down every season on
Speaker 2: one thing. Another might be ey shots, that might be Roxby,
Speaker 2: it might be whatever, and there's a flurry of penalties
Speaker 2: and then it kind of peedes out right round five
Speaker 2: or six. Yeah, it is just it's impossible to predict.
Speaker 2: I hope, I hope that clubs, whether the referees holding
Speaker 2: of the RFL holds its nerve and we do have
Speaker 2: cleaner and quicker rocks.
Speaker 1: You probably just answered the question John, round five or six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't be betting my life
Speaker 2: on the fact that they stay the same all the ways.
Speaker 2: Other season.
Speaker 1: Ian Stockdale added, the play the ball has got to
Speaker 1: be a talking point over here, meaning England. It's a joke.
Speaker 1: Some players touch the ball with their foot or they
Speaker 1: just throw it between their legs, which spoils the game
Speaker 1: for me. And he's absolutely right.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: The other thing, and I've mentioned this on this podcast,
Speaker 1: once or twice the amount of times the markers aren't
Speaker 1: square in Super Lean Yeah yeah, And you can even
Speaker 1: look at last year's Grand Final and it's been going
Speaker 1: back at the very least since twenty nineteen. They've not
Speaker 1: been policing this. Because I was a Wigan versus Salford
Speaker 1: in the Super League semi final that year when they
Speaker 1: got to the Grand Final and I was with a
Speaker 1: Salford fan behind the sticks and it stuck out like
Speaker 1: dogs testicles because I was behind the sticks and I'd
Speaker 1: never noticed it before. And I said to my dad,
Speaker 1: I said, the markers are never square in this competition
Speaker 1: and to me, it sticks out like dogs testicles. And
Speaker 1: I don't know why they don't fix it. And there
Speaker 1: was a couple of occasions in the Super League Grand
Speaker 1: Final where the referee completely lost control of the ruck.
Speaker 1: I e, something messy happened, because that's what happens, you know,
Speaker 1: not every rook is the same. And he lost complete
Speaker 1: control of it. And what I can't even begin to
Speaker 1: describe what happened, but that those play the balls because
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: All I think that's that's a fairly regular occurrence. I mean,
Speaker 2: everything from the market is the tacklers lying on the
Speaker 2: plata ball, slowing it down. The actual ability to play
Speaker 2: the ball with your foot, which is the rule, seems
Speaker 2: to be, or at least the interpretation in England is
Speaker 2: you just have to make an attempt, so you can
Speaker 2: just basically put them down and just throw a leg
Speaker 2: near it. You don't actually to touch it. Is very
Speaker 2: messy and I think generally referees just don't want to
Speaker 2: be blowing the p out of their whistle, so they
Speaker 2: kind of turn a blind iron times. But I think
Speaker 2: because of that, players think they can get away with it,
Speaker 2: and then it happens all the time. And say the
Speaker 2: other thing is the ten meters which often becomes nine
Speaker 2: and a half nine meters eight and I think one
Speaker 2: coach actually told it, told me that was the theory was, well,
Speaker 2: you can't really penalize them. If they're all offside, you
Speaker 2: can't really penalize them. So it's kind of that if
Speaker 2: their line speed is consistently nine and a half meters,
Speaker 2: it's very hard to actually penalize them. As a case
Speaker 2: if you've got a shooter who's coming off, you know,
Speaker 2: say the there was also something the referees brought in
Speaker 2: maybe a decade ago where they were actually standing back
Speaker 2: eleven meters so that they could look at the defensive
Speaker 2: line better.
Speaker 1: They were in Australia anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they.
Speaker 1: Didn't communicate it very well, so every crowd was shouting
Speaker 1: getting on, get him on side and having a coronery
Speaker 1: because the defenses were literally half a meter or a
Speaker 1: meter in front of the referee. Sometimes the players didn't
Speaker 1: know when they were going back eleven meters. One of
Speaker 1: the greatest comments in rugby league history for me, one
Speaker 1: of the most famous is that's a big ten or
Speaker 1: that's a small ten. Well ten is ten and with
Speaker 1: proper bart's fields, which as we know is a problem
Speaker 1: in England, it's a lot easier to officiate.
Speaker 2: So I know two referees went out of a while ago,
Speaker 2: but to be honest, I actually quite I liked the
Speaker 2: two referees because you've got one referee who's looking at
Speaker 2: a rock and the players laying all over the ball,
Speaker 2: and then you've got one actually policing at ten. And
Speaker 2: it's the same in not to throw on the other guy,
Speaker 2: but it's the same in rugby union. The amount of
Speaker 2: off sides now in rugby union, and where they don't
Speaker 2: have to be far back, but their laun spent is
Speaker 2: crazy because you can't literally there's that much going on.
Speaker 2: A referee can't really police look directions.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know what's going on here. Paul Atkinson.
Speaker 1: You've got a message, haven't you, John? I have, yes,
Speaker 1: because Paul Atkinson miracle. Paul Atkinson wrote and said, how
Speaker 1: was the breakfast at the Holiday in York on Sunday?
Speaker 2: I was a bit I was. I saw that took
Speaker 2: me back. I'm like I'm being stalked. Yes, I was.
Speaker 2: I was at the New York Holiday in in in
Speaker 2: New York City Center on Saturday, and and then I did.
Speaker 1: The breakfast was lovely, Thank you, Paul. I enjoyed it
Speaker 1: so obviously somebody was in the York.
Speaker 2: Well it was. It was alawful.
Speaker 1: I mean, all I'm hearing is Paul saying it was
Speaker 1: at the Holiday Inn and you were, so that's all.
Speaker 2: He didn't come up and say which is which is?
Speaker 1: But intrepid David Wright, what do you lads make of
Speaker 1: Saint Helen's this year? It seems to me they've got
Speaker 1: too many players that aren't in the right position. I
Speaker 1: have no idea if they're going to be good or rubbish?
Speaker 1: Can I can I start with that? I Paul Rowley
Speaker 1: being the coach, David, and thanks for the question. David
Speaker 1: is expect different, I think. So I'm not saying he's
Speaker 1: out there so much like a Einstein or Rugbiley coach
Speaker 1: or strange analyst, but he does have a slight different
Speaker 1: method of football that's away from the cookie cutter method.
Speaker 1: So and I wouldn't be surprised if Paul roy has
Speaker 1: got excited and you might see some players interchanging position
Speaker 1: a little bit, because coaches are coaches and they study
Speaker 1: all sorts of sports. And again, somebody who's been in
Speaker 1: vogue or in the last decade in the round ball
Speaker 1: game has been Pep Guardiola, and I do think he's
Speaker 1: possibly coming out of vogue now. But one thing Pep
Speaker 1: Guardiola does is interchange positions in the middle of games.
Speaker 1: So you center half becomes your midfielder, becomes your right wing,
Speaker 1: becomes your left wing. The change positions all the time basically,
Speaker 1: and change tactical formation. So I would I won't be
Speaker 1: surprised if I mean, you'll know more about the squad,
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't be surprised if Paul Rowley is thinking
Speaker 1: along those lines a little bit just to messings up.
Speaker 1: And I know I've done things in the past. I've
Speaker 1: I've played without a hooker and had an extra prop
Speaker 1: on the field and used second rowers to be done
Speaker 1: me half on each side. I've played without locks, I've
Speaker 1: done all sorts. I've played without halves to have two
Speaker 1: extra props on the field, so that you know, there's
Speaker 1: no rules that say you have to have a full
Speaker 1: back at six and a seven. So which is funny
Speaker 1: because in the in England, the team sheet that they
Speaker 1: put on the door literally says full back, standoff, scrum half,
Speaker 1: loose forward, whereas a team sheet in Australia says one
Speaker 1: to seventeen.
Speaker 2: And also, I mean Jackson Hastings is one of the
Speaker 2: big cint Alan signings for this year and he's got
Speaker 2: the shirt thirty one, so he's not got you know,
Speaker 2: six or seven, he's got thirty one and he will
Speaker 2: probably play the halves, although just building on the point
Speaker 2: he said he might. You know, there's there's rumors that
Speaker 2: he could play lot in the thirteen spot.
Speaker 1: Well wanted him there a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean you look at the success of
Speaker 2: well say Tommy did and in State of Origin and
Speaker 2: for the Kangaroos were recently and the way the game
Speaker 2: has changed to have that sort of more ball playing lock. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Saint Helens Is it's a good question because I really
Speaker 2: can't pick how they're going to go this year. I mean,
Speaker 2: obviously Paul Wellens left. He'd been there well his whole career,
Speaker 2: but had been there as an assistant for Uma before
Speaker 2: coming head coach. So new, completely new coach, new philosophy.
Speaker 2: It is an aging squad in part. They've got some
Speaker 2: really good young players coming through. But you look at Lomax, Wormsley, Clark,
Speaker 2: syn and Percival, you know it's a really aging squad.
Speaker 2: So how they balanced that is going to be interesting.
Speaker 2: The issue with the halves last year had you know,
Speaker 2: they've got Tristan Saylor who's a fullback and then they
Speaker 2: try to play at six. It in works and they
Speaker 2: move wells Be from fall back to six, which kind
Speaker 2: of work. But Lomax, you know, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: pressure on him to keep his spot. They've got a
Speaker 2: really good young half back there and with George Whitby,
Speaker 2: but is he ready to play week in week out.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of question marks there. You know, they've
Speaker 2: signed man named McDonald who is very talented but tends
Speaker 2: to be rocks and diamonds and you know, leaves a
Speaker 2: lot of clubs. And then you know they've signed David
Speaker 2: Klamer who obviously he has had a great career in
Speaker 2: Origin and Australia, but he's been sort of shown the
Speaker 2: door a couple of clubs now at least you know,
Speaker 2: Western Newcastle. So he's also heading towards the end. So
Speaker 2: that Saint Helen's are a weird one. I think there
Speaker 2: could be anything from you know, top three to all
Speaker 2: about or eighth or ninth. I really I really can't say.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think they'll probably end up fifth or sixth.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it's it's quite an unpredictable one. And
Speaker 2: what that spine, you know, whether they you know, they
Speaker 2: go with with Lomax and Hastings or whether they go
Speaker 2: with Lomax or Whitby, or whether they go with Whitby
Speaker 2: and Hastings or Hastings is at thirteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've got Whitby, Lomax, Hastings, Wellsby.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and so and Saylor. He's not a six.
Speaker 2: His best position is fullback, and I think they've used
Speaker 2: him at fullback. They've used him in the wing, they've
Speaker 2: used him, signed him as a six, but it just
Speaker 2: didn't work because he's a ball runner. He's not a
Speaker 2: he's not really a half. He's a fullback. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's an interesting one. But you know, they've also
Speaker 2: got some great players. You know, Harry Robinson's a real,
Speaker 2: real star, George Delaney, you know, they've got Maddy Lee's,
Speaker 2: They've got you know, some real experience there. So it's yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Think they're going to play a lot of football. I
Speaker 1: think they're going to play a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. I think. I mean, generally poor roll.
Speaker 2: These teams have thrown the ball around, been quite entertaining,
Speaker 2: and that's probably the Wholebrook and Wolf and Wellans area
Speaker 2: has been really more based around defense launch.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Different with my coaching hat on. Right, if the
Speaker 1: rook speed up, it's not necessarily the best player to
Speaker 1: play football. Because of the rook speed up you're probably
Speaker 1: playing You're better playing a little bit more north south
Speaker 1: to get momentum.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I always said in Super League about a decade
Speaker 1: ago when Sean Wayne's Wigan sides, or maybe a bit
Speaker 1: longer when Shaun Wayne's wiggansides were doing well and Madges
Speaker 1: Wigan sides. The simpler you are in Super League tended
Speaker 1: to work because the Rooks were so fast, but they've
Speaker 1: allowed them to get slow and it's like touch touch
Speaker 1: rugby as they call it in England or touch as
Speaker 1: they call it in Australia. Players just literally go in
Speaker 1: and dump the ball on the ground and they just
Speaker 1: scoop from dumby half. It's because it's all about getting momentum.
Speaker 1: So so yeah, it's going to be intriguing to watch
Speaker 1: that and therefore it's really important the referees stick to
Speaker 1: their guns so that people can plan. So Paul Rowley
Speaker 1: will have to think about that too, the balance between
Speaker 1: going forward and going sideways. Matthew Darnley, These questions are
Speaker 1: brilliant by the way our followers are smart. Matthew Darnley said.
Speaker 1: Given the current structure of Super League, lack of money
Speaker 1: in the game below super League, do you think it
Speaker 1: would be worth moving to a similar model to the NRL,
Speaker 1: Which is funny you've already mentioned it a little bit
Speaker 1: affiliated clubs that allow reserve players to develop under a
Speaker 1: stronger competition like the Championship, just like New South Wales
Speaker 1: and Queensland cups would still keep their identity like Redcliff
Speaker 1: and Bears have done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's a great question. I've advocated for
Speaker 2: that for years. The problem is because of the way
Speaker 2: the English game is set up and until recently when
Speaker 2: we had League One, you know, and in the past
Speaker 2: we had Toronto who went from League One, got into
Speaker 2: Championship and then were in the Super League and eventually
Speaker 2: you know, usually it was you had to work your
Speaker 2: way up the divisions, which is what to Louse have done,
Speaker 2: which is what York have done, and Bradford this year.
Speaker 2: But that's the problem is you have clubs who are
Speaker 2: aspiring to be in Super League, so you can't really
Speaker 2: be a feeder team if you are aspiring to be
Speaker 2: in Super League. You know, the black Town whatever they are,
Speaker 2: the Blacktown Seagulls are not aspiring to be in the
Speaker 2: NRL because they are mainly feeder club and the same
Speaker 2: with all the other ones. A different system, different system, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's the promotion and regular relegation system.
Speaker 1: England has a sporting class system.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but in saying that, I think we are because
Speaker 2: of as that commenter said, the lack of money in
Speaker 2: the game. We are moving that way because you look
Speaker 2: at what York's doing with Newcastle and you know effectively,
Speaker 2: well your.
Speaker 1: Simon Halls asked that question, what's your thoughts on the
Speaker 1: link up between York and Newcastle? And lots of traditionalists
Speaker 1: are losing their minds, So tell everybody about that link please,
Speaker 1: John Well.
Speaker 2: Effectively, the owner of Newcastle, was it eighteen months or
Speaker 2: so ago, pulled out. I think he went through a divorce.
Speaker 2: He was I think his name was Seymour Curdie and
Speaker 2: he went through a divorce. He owned the Newcastle Falcons
Speaker 2: and the Newcastle Tuners of the Rugby Union, the Rugby
Speaker 2: League clubs, went through a divorce, sold the clubs and
Speaker 2: effectively the Thunder basically almost went bust. Was a volunteer
Speaker 2: run club with a load of local kids, university kids
Speaker 2: from Newcastle and they were getting pumped every week. Now
Speaker 2: York has sort of they've invested in the Newcastle Thunder
Speaker 2: and they're using it basically as their feeder team. Now
Speaker 2: that's pissed off a lot of people. But to be honest,
Speaker 2: I think it's quite smart from York. You know it
Speaker 2: the well I think we talked about this another podcast.
Speaker 2: The reserve competition doesn't really exist anymore, so there's not
Speaker 2: really a pathway from under nineteens to Super League if
Speaker 2: you're not ready at say eighteen nineteen to make that jump.
Speaker 2: So did you Championship is the way in between, and
Speaker 2: it's it's just a smart it's a smart play I
Speaker 2: think by York. I think we'll see more and more
Speaker 2: of it. But the issue is, you know, like we
Speaker 2: mentioned London and Oldham. Like London want to be in
Speaker 2: Super League, so they're not going to be a feeder
Speaker 2: club for anyone, are they. Oldham I want to be
Speaker 2: in Super League as well. They've got aspiration. So it's
Speaker 2: kind of a one foot in, one foot out front
Speaker 2: of system. It's it's not fully copied in our own model,
Speaker 2: but maybe in the future it will.
Speaker 1: Let's just do a selfie, y'all.
Speaker 2: Why not?
Speaker 1: It doesn't isn't the isn't the duel contract thing that's
Speaker 1: been scrapped. Isn't that duel reg Isn't that going in
Speaker 1: a different direction?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean effectively it's a loan. It's a loan
Speaker 2: system now. I mean juell reg was quite controversial because
Speaker 2: a lot of clubs and players didn't like it. You know,
Speaker 2: you were a Leeds player but you went on duel
Speaker 2: reg to FEV for say a month, but you were
Speaker 2: playing in their colors and you know, people didn't seem
Speaker 2: to like it. But it's effectively a loan system now.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's it's changed, but there is still
Speaker 2: movement between the divisions in terms of players.
Speaker 1: I'll stop doing self is now cock. Gwomble twelve on
Speaker 1: X said, how seriously are English rug the league stakeholders
Speaker 1: taking the potential of Sky not bidding for the next
Speaker 1: Super League broadcast deal? Is there any chatter about rival
Speaker 1: bidders waiting in the wings or other rivals queuing up
Speaker 1: to talk to for Landi's first.
Speaker 2: Well, there's been. There's been people trying to discredit Steve
Speaker 2: Mascot's report, a couple of people, which is a bit pathetic,
Speaker 2: I would say, But go into a bit more detail
Speaker 2: about that report in case anybody. Well, effectively, Steve did
Speaker 2: a column for our Patreon side talking about, you know,
Speaker 2: things that he'd heard coming from Australia that after this
Speaker 2: next contract that Sky wouldn't be bidding from for Super League,
Speaker 2: which if true is you know, is very concerning and
Speaker 2: very well. I've been asking around. There hasn't been much
Speaker 2: talk at senior levels about the Sky deal. No one
Speaker 2: seems to be saying anything or about negotiations. I know
Speaker 2: we've covered this before, but Temt lost the Champions League,
Speaker 2: so there is the argument that they have money to
Speaker 2: invest in another sport. But yeah, I think the real
Speaker 2: problem is and a lot of people don't seem to
Speaker 2: realize how nationally rugby league in the UK is not popular.
Speaker 2: It's just not big enough. It doesn't get enough publicity.
Speaker 1: And while the raid of podcast now all be cares
Speaker 1: about us, No, the.
Speaker 2: Thing is, people do care, but it's probably a core
Speaker 2: of about two hundred thousand people and it's not if anything,
Speaker 2: the national profile since the nineties, since the start of
Speaker 2: Super League, and maybe since the early two thousands has
Speaker 2: gone downhill, you know, and that's that's reflected. So it's
Speaker 2: very hard. They need another to come in, and you know,
Speaker 2: we need to push the game. We need more publicity,
Speaker 2: we need more airtime, we need to be marketing ourselves
Speaker 2: a lot better. Yeah, I mean, just to the lastly
Speaker 2: add on that, I mean, the tendance's were up last year,
Speaker 2: so that's a good sign ratings were up. But to
Speaker 2: actually grow the TV contract, it's going to be difficult
Speaker 2: because it's a very tough TV market. Like people don't
Speaker 2: watch TV like they used to in the past. You know,
Speaker 2: they watched it, They watch streaming, they watch YouTube. It's
Speaker 2: not you know, Saturday night, I sit down at eight
Speaker 2: o'clock and watch the box.
Speaker 1: It's just not how people consume. I got a little
Speaker 1: bit of sorry if I interrupted. I got a little
Speaker 1: bit of thought from a Sky employee when I was
Speaker 1: talking to him about this issue, and they had a
Speaker 1: feeling that Sky would be loyal in terms of they've been.
Speaker 1: They're basically grown with the sport of rugby league and
Speaker 1: the English Premier League, and the two things happened at
Speaker 1: the same time in the early to mid nineties, so
Speaker 1: they've grown to together. And those who are of a
Speaker 1: certain vintage will remember the old BSB dishes satellite dishes,
Speaker 1: and then the B sky B dishes and Eddie and
Speaker 1: Steve o at grounds like Featherstone all of a sudden
Speaker 1: making the game sound and look a bit more glamorous.
Speaker 1: So I think if there is that kind of thought,
Speaker 1: then Sky will be loyal, even if even if they're
Speaker 1: not paying very much, So it doesn't mean there's going
Speaker 1: to be a better deal. David Mason ninety three asked
Speaker 1: if there's any further news on an NRL takeover. I'm
Speaker 1: already tired of nig's clowns, he said, So do you
Speaker 1: want me to answer that one, because I've got a
Speaker 1: little bit of some.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, because I've not heard it's been very
Speaker 2: quiet on that front. Yeah, yeah, I'll let you guess that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean there's a sign there straight away.
Speaker 1: There's probably not that many people in England of a
Speaker 1: certain caliber who are interested in this job. So I've
Speaker 1: heard from Australia that it really is an open feeling.
Speaker 1: So what I want to say to listeners and watchers
Speaker 1: on YouTube now, I'm sorry to any of those who
Speaker 1: had to sign in last week still learning about the
Speaker 1: futube thing. Right, Hopefully it's all fine and andy this week.
Speaker 1: The NRL could be still be having a say because
Speaker 1: and they could even contribute yet, because I know for
Speaker 1: a fact that interested parties in Australia in this job
Speaker 1: are talking with the NRL administration just as much as
Speaker 1: they're talking with the English administration. So I know that
Speaker 1: for a fact, and one candidate in particular has got
Speaker 1: support on both sides of the world. So if you
Speaker 1: think about this, right, so I'm not talking about any individual.
Speaker 1: If you think about this, one of the way to
Speaker 1: swing the negotiations could be the land is saying to
Speaker 1: the Rugby Football League, we will pay for the CEO.
Speaker 1: The new CEO that then could be the person that
Speaker 1: they have on the ground in the competition. Now, just
Speaker 1: because they have somebody on the ground in the competition
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they necessarily have to control it. It could
Speaker 1: just be we'll do it for two years just to
Speaker 1: see more of a feasibility study. Who knows. Right then,
Speaker 1: we've also got this concept of the TV rights. Okay,
Speaker 1: so out of the two, out of the two competitions Australia,
Speaker 1: the NRL Peter Velandi's and the NRL, they're more likely
Speaker 1: to get a better TV deal.
Speaker 2: That's you know, that's that's the.
Speaker 1: Cent. But I also mean a better one in terms
Speaker 1: of what they've got last time. So one increased TV
Speaker 1: and therefore to add value to that. If they can
Speaker 1: somehow get Super League content in there, it's more content.
Speaker 1: So I think this search for a new Rugby Football
Speaker 1: League CEO, whoever they decide on, will give you the
Speaker 1: biggest hint yet as to where it's going. Okay, so
Speaker 1: if they get somebody who's I'm sorry to say this,
Speaker 1: but somebody who Nigel would wants to control, well that
Speaker 1: gives us a big indication where it's going. If we
Speaker 1: get somebody from Australia who has got either an endorsement
Speaker 1: from Peter Velanders in the NRL or potentially some money,
Speaker 1: now why would they Why would the Rugby Football League
Speaker 1: like some money for a CEO. Well, apparently they're not
Speaker 1: flush with cash, so that would help. That would help
Speaker 1: things too.
Speaker 2: So there is some talk that it will most likely
Speaker 2: be either an internal appointment or the RFL or someone
Speaker 2: that Nigel would want. And to be honest, I would
Speaker 2: be pretty surprised if would mcmahanus, Bomont, et cetera give
Speaker 2: up their power and control to an outsider. I'd be
Speaker 2: very surprised, but it's possible.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so look, well what we can both say then,
Speaker 1: So in answer to that question is I am literally
Speaker 1: saying both options are still on the table right now.
Speaker 1: And if you want to know the direction of the
Speaker 1: future of the game, if you want to know what
Speaker 1: they're thinking, this CEO decision. So if they go with
Speaker 1: what you've just said, you know that any chance of
Speaker 1: the NRL getting involved probably diminishes with that. If they
Speaker 1: go with somebody that is coming from Australia with NRL links,
Speaker 1: it could still be on the table. So this is
Speaker 1: probably quite an important moment in the future of the
Speaker 1: game in England. It really is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think I think allied to that is
Speaker 2: this tv negotiation. That's one of the So I think
Speaker 2: if if the TVL deal doesn't increase, or if it
Speaker 2: goes down further, then that could be a tipping point
Speaker 2: to be like, okay, well we actually need to get
Speaker 2: the NROL in here because we're staffed. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 2: very very important negotiation this next TV.
Speaker 1: Now, depending on what happens, we could be the ones
Speaker 1: to break the story. Read the CEO. So, John, put
Speaker 1: your contact details on there. Let people need to follow you,
Speaker 1: because if it goes in a certain direction, you'll be
Speaker 1: breaking it.
Speaker 2: I don't know about that. I maybe I may not,
Speaker 2: but yeah, you can get me on exit Johnny d Davidson.
Speaker 2: You can get me on Facebook at John Davidson comment journalist.
Speaker 1: I'm Rugby league coach on socials. Message me on Instagram
Speaker 1: and Facebook only please, but I'm everywhere else and Rugby
Speaker 1: League Coach dot com. To tell you, email is Admint
Speaker 1: at rugbylee Coach dot com. De say you okay, let's
Speaker 1: drop a division. Mike Ford, Oldham, Bill Quinn discourse.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a couple of hours before we started recording,
Speaker 2: Bill Quinn put out a nine or so minute video.
Speaker 1: Because Jaman of Oldham, that's right.
Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, the chairman and the old and the owner
Speaker 2: of Oldham. Now. Yes. The speculation is that Mike Ford
Speaker 2: quit because he had a falling out with Bill Quinn.
Speaker 1: Mm huh.
Speaker 2: And then there was a Oldham supporters group put out
Speaker 2: a letter on Sunday night asking well Sunday on Monday night,
Speaker 2: asking for honesty and transparency and answers because not only
Speaker 2: with Mike Ford's to put departure and that of Sean
Speaker 2: Long in September, they'd been a winding up petition in
Speaker 2: December which is also resurfaced, which you know, sources of
Speaker 2: the club say it it's been paid. It's just a
Speaker 2: formalion now, but there's also been reports or allegations of
Speaker 2: unpaid wages. And Bill Quinn is also in a conflict
Speaker 2: with Oldham Athletic who own Boundary Park which is the
Speaker 2: home ground that they're play in, and he's been banned
Speaker 2: from yes the soccer team. Basically he's been banned from
Speaker 2: going to Boundary Park. So it was quite a remarkable
Speaker 2: video and in it it's hard to recap, but basically
Speaker 2: he said he'd be stepping down as chairman. He'll be
Speaker 2: taking Oldham Athletic to court over the stadium disputed with
Speaker 2: letting the lowers handlet. He also had a bit of
Speaker 2: a go at some of the fans for what he
Speaker 2: called disgraceful comments about him and about the club on
Speaker 2: social media, and he said he'll walk if if most
Speaker 2: of the Olden fans we want to gone. He also
Speaker 2: claimed that he was unaware of some of the debts
Speaker 2: but they've been sorted at the moment, and he said
Speaker 2: also that the winding up petition has been paid, So yeah,
Speaker 2: pretty out their video.
Speaker 1: So we need take we need to we need to
Speaker 1: take a couple of steps back to explaining to people
Speaker 1: who might not be over it. So Oldham a club
Speaker 1: who maybe eighteen months two years ago started to make
Speaker 1: some big statements about there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a direction of travel. Yes, I
Speaker 2: think he took over, you know, two to three years ago,
Speaker 2: and I think Bill Quinn's put in a lot of money,
Speaker 2: millions of pounds. They've got a host of X Super
Speaker 2: League players, Queensland Cup players, and they won League One
Speaker 2: I think the year before last.
Speaker 1: Which would have been the third tier then, yes.
Speaker 2: Which no longer exists now. And then they finished fourth
Speaker 2: in the championship last year. And then one of the
Speaker 2: fact they did apply to get promoted into Super League,
Speaker 2: but they didn't. Their application wasn't successful. But they are
Speaker 2: a vicious club and you'd know the history of old
Speaker 2: a lot more than me Lee. But I think they
Speaker 2: were in super League and there.
Speaker 1: They were in the initial super League. I can't remember
Speaker 1: how many super leagues exactly before they slipped out, but
Speaker 1: they were definitely there.
Speaker 2: Weren't. Yeah, they've been in the doll drums for decades
Speaker 2: because it was hilarious. It was hilarious that we had
Speaker 2: Super League everything glitz and Glamour. Yet they were still
Speaker 2: at the Watersheddings and I think it was Oldham that
Speaker 2: they pranked Mike Stevenson. So one of the initiatives in
Speaker 2: super League initially was Mike Stevenson was going to call
Speaker 2: out the players number one Johnny Davidson, number two Lee Addison.
Speaker 2: Well the player started messing around with it, and Martin
Speaker 2: a fire, number five, Martin a fire and Mick Cassidy
Speaker 2: would walk out with his albino hair and whatnot. So
Speaker 2: and that happened at the Watersheddings apparently. So so they
Speaker 2: were part of the initial Super League and like you said,
Speaker 2: fallen from grace. Any wait, a few years ago the
Speaker 2: noises started to be the thing with Oldham is though
Speaker 2: they've always been like a historic Rangula league area. They've
Speaker 2: always produced great players. I mean, Kevin Sinfield came from Oldham,
Speaker 2: Paul Sculthorpe, Barry McDermott, there's lots of others. I think
Speaker 2: Mike Ford. Originally it was Oldam, but obviously they made
Speaker 2: their names of other clubs like Leeds and Saint Helens
Speaker 2: and Wigan et cetera. But yeah, so they've been on
Speaker 2: the March and then all this has sort of cropped
Speaker 2: up in the last couple of months. Yeah, it's really.
Speaker 1: Played for Oldham for our Rossie fans, Bob Lidner, there
Speaker 1: you go, there you go, And you're right about Oldham
Speaker 1: being the hotbed. So I've done some work in Oldham
Speaker 1: through my business rugby league coach and in terms of
Speaker 1: the grassroots it's still really strong. It gives rugby league
Speaker 1: a massive identity anyway, So part of this new wave.
Speaker 1: Mike Ford, who's had a big history in rugby union
Speaker 1: lately as well, the old Great Britain rugby league international,
Speaker 1: ended up in rugby union, so quite high profile in England.
Speaker 1: His son George I think, has played for the England
Speaker 1: rugby union team.
Speaker 2: And I think Mike Ford played for the Cowboys back
Speaker 2: of the nineties as well.
Speaker 1: As Yes, so he ended up being the director of
Speaker 1: rugby at Oldham for a period of time. Looking back
Speaker 1: now again, something we said on this podcast, Alan Kilshaw
Speaker 1: coming in as coach suggests to me that Mike Ford
Speaker 1: has been suggesting this could be on the cards for
Speaker 1: a while. And what happened on Sunday immediately after the game,
Speaker 1: Mike Ford tweeted out he was leaving Oldham. The game
Speaker 1: London played Oldham, so if you like a real statement
Speaker 1: game in terms of the two teams that were wanting
Speaker 1: to be in Super League next year or two of
Speaker 1: the teams, and London won reasonably convincingly, and within minutes
Speaker 1: of the final whistle and final who to Mike Ford
Speaker 1: tweeted out and again in Lee's laugh, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be talking about that, that that tweet. But and then
Speaker 1: he saw his son George added in what I mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1: So with hindsight, looks like Mike Ford has been thinking
Speaker 1: about this for a while and putting the wheels in
Speaker 1: motion because now they've got a technical coach. It used
Speaker 1: to be sewn long, Sewn long left four months ago September,
Speaker 1: I think it was. Yeah, okay, so there's a few
Speaker 1: there's a few red flags popping up here. And I
Speaker 1: always say to people who split up with a partner
Speaker 1: or something like that, if you look back at the
Speaker 1: last six months twelve months, will be some red flags
Speaker 1: that you didn't pick up at the time that will
Speaker 1: make sense now. And I think there's some red flags
Speaker 1: when it comes to this old thing that than picking
Speaker 1: up as we go along. So so literally overnight, while
Speaker 1: I've been asleep and while you've been intrepid being out
Speaker 1: what's going on in the world of English rugby league.
Speaker 1: Bill Quinn's done a video as chairman because he's under
Speaker 1: siege and he's made a load of statements. What is
Speaker 1: the fan sentiment to that video?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's mixed. I think there's been
Speaker 2: a lot of criticism of Bill and the club of
Speaker 2: not providing answers, and there's obviously people who support him,
Speaker 2: but I think, look, it's great that he's come out
Speaker 2: and made a statement, but having a go at the
Speaker 2: fans is never really a great tactic. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: I think he probably could have gone across his point
Speaker 2: maybe a little bit smarter, you know. And obviously you
Speaker 2: know there's a lot of claims made in that in
Speaker 2: that statement, he's obviously frustrated, he's unhappy. But yeah, it's
Speaker 2: it's just it's not generally from the outside looking in.
Speaker 2: And as I said, I've never met Bill, gun ever
Speaker 2: interviewed him, don't know him, but you know, different people
Speaker 2: have said different things about him, about the club. It's
Speaker 2: hard to know what to believe at the moment. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just the English game has a history of these
Speaker 2: sort of things are opting at different clubs.
Speaker 1: It's Pete rugby League.
Speaker 2: It's very people were and look, I hope for the
Speaker 2: Oldham's fans sake and for the Olden club that it
Speaker 2: all gets sorted and you know, everyone's paid what they're
Speaker 2: owed and the club can continue on because he has
Speaker 2: put a lot of money into the club. And you know,
Speaker 2: we don't with what's happened at Veston and at Salford,
Speaker 2: we don't. We definitely don't want another club to go under,
Speaker 2: which is you know, it seems to be happening a
Speaker 2: lot in recent times.
Speaker 1: When this club isn't going under yet, but it's certainly
Speaker 1: possibly heading south. We mentioned London then and they won again,
Speaker 1: so they beat Witness in round one, won their cup
Speaker 1: tie and then have now won this game against Oldham.
Speaker 1: I think it was twenty to eight something.
Speaker 2: Like that, twenty five to eight or something like that.
Speaker 1: Kay in front of their eight thousand five are speculated
Speaker 1: by me if anyone wants to have a go at me.
Speaker 1: And it was the biggest crowd ever, and I'm taking
Speaker 1: the Donald Trump approach to it. Biggest crowd ever. Everyone's
Speaker 1: saying it now. A real big tie coming up this
Speaker 1: weekend is they played Bradford Bulls in the Cup and
Speaker 1: we should preview a little bit and talk about the
Speaker 1: Challenge Cup. It's a one hundred and twenty fifth version
Speaker 1: of the Challenge Cup John. It's been held annually since
Speaker 1: eighteen ninety six and it's the world's oldest cup competition
Speaker 1: in either code of rugby, and it's twenty four years
Speaker 1: behind the Soccer FA Cup, which had its first final
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy two. This competition has been going in
Speaker 1: January since January. Round one was the amateurs second tier
Speaker 1: was the Championship. So the second sorry, the second round
Speaker 1: was the second tier and now the Super League club
Speaker 1: start to join. And this is an intriguing tie. Bradford Bulls,
Speaker 1: who finished higher than London last year in Super League
Speaker 1: in the Championship finished third, London finished seventh. I think,
Speaker 1: so Bradford ended up going up to Super League for
Speaker 1: reasons we've discussed on these.
Speaker 2: You can't compare how the finished because basically London.
Speaker 1: Have let me finish and then right, but London didn't
Speaker 1: have Sorry Bradford, you've knocked me off track. Bradford didn't
Speaker 1: have investment from Australia in the form of Darren Lockyer
Speaker 1: and Grant Wessel. Yeah, thank you for interrupting me, John, So,
Speaker 1: So that's why it's that's why it's an intriguing tie.
Speaker 1: And Bradford. I mean we you know, we will preview
Speaker 1: Bradford and I think we'll admit that it's going to
Speaker 1: be a tough year for them. Yeah, London broncos, I've
Speaker 1: also got a Super League and NRL caliber team and
Speaker 1: the playing in London, and I actually think this is
Speaker 1: a real potential fifty to fifty game that could go
Speaker 1: either way. We could have our first Challenge Cup shock
Speaker 1: for so long, couldn't we job.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent? I don't even think necessarily be a
Speaker 2: shock if London win. Look, I think they've been talking
Speaker 2: out this game for a couple of weeks, the potential.
Speaker 2: I think they see it as a huge opportunity if
Speaker 2: they win to sort of show, you know, what they
Speaker 2: can do. And I think that you know, the ticket
Speaker 2: prices are ten quid, so they're really trying to get
Speaker 2: a big crowd in there and if yeah, it'll be
Speaker 2: a statement if they win. They've got a very strong
Speaker 2: you know, I think there's there's probably an argument that
Speaker 2: you know, London could be in Super League now and
Speaker 2: you know would probably make you know, the likes of
Speaker 2: York and Bradford and to lose. But Bradford they've also
Speaker 2: basically I'm just trying to have a look at the
Speaker 2: squad that they've brought in. But they've signs something like
Speaker 2: fifteen players, you know, loads from other Super League clubs,
Speaker 2: a couple from the Championship, the likes of Ryan starting
Speaker 2: from the Bulldogs. So they've got and they've also got
Speaker 2: a new head coaching, Kurk Haggerty, who was the assistant
Speaker 2: coach at Salford, so they're a brand new squad as well.
Speaker 2: It's really tough to sort of see that they've obviously
Speaker 2: they played Leeds a couple of weeks ago and got
Speaker 2: kind of convincingly beat but I think they were missing
Speaker 2: nine first team regulars. So yeah, it's it's really really interruing.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be at this game around I've never
Speaker 2: been to the same Wolham, but I'm really looking forward
Speaker 2: to a really tough competitive game and you know, a
Speaker 2: huge amount to play for because I'm sure Bradford don't
Speaker 2: want to be knocked off. It'll be a bit embarrassing.
Speaker 2: And they actually did that cast for last year in
Speaker 2: the Challenge Cup at Onsall and that was before the
Speaker 2: Super League started and that was a real slap on
Speaker 2: the face for Casts. So Bradford will be desperate to
Speaker 2: to keep their running the Cup going and not suffer
Speaker 2: that upset and London will be, you know, pushing all
Speaker 2: guns for for this.
Speaker 1: Cats have a history of this. They lost a Featherstone
Speaker 1: in twenty twelve as well in the Cups, so Cass
Speaker 1: have been the whipping boys. I wonder what the chances
Speaker 1: are of some of the other ties being shocked though.
Speaker 1: Rochdale are hosting Wigan and that hasn't happened since ninety
Speaker 1: four December ninety four.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what team we're going to
Speaker 2: put it out, but that could be sixty or seventy points.
Speaker 1: Workington host in Saint Helens for the first time since
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 2: Yeah again that you think that'll be forty or fifty
Speaker 2: leads be witnessed? You think leads by at least thirty
Speaker 2: or more. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Sheffield are playing Warrington for the first time since July
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't see any other upsets. Yeah that in
Speaker 2: that round.
Speaker 1: To be fair, Salford the playing whole f C, which
Speaker 1: would have happened last year was very different the Sulford
Speaker 1: of quite that that.
Speaker 2: Could be sixty or seventy points unfortunately mm hmm.
Speaker 1: And who left c whole k are warming up for
Speaker 1: Brisbane by playing the amateur's lock lane. So to put
Speaker 1: that in context for Australian listeners and viewers, that's like
Speaker 1: Brisbane Broncos playing against It's not even like playing Saint
Speaker 1: Mary's in Sydney or or Logan Brothers Seniors or somebody
Speaker 1: in the Bears. Literally like playing against really one of
Speaker 1: the lower A grade clubs in a quite an obscure town.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's probably not a direct comparison, but
Speaker 2: you know South Sydney playing the Maitland pumpkin Pickers or well.
Speaker 1: Brisbane because they're the champions like who k are are?
Speaker 1: And so yeah, it really, out of all the sides
Speaker 1: that could have been drawn against an amateur side, this
Speaker 1: really is the toughest. Like I'll after poison the breakfast
Speaker 1: or something. They need divine intervention. Yeah, let's have some
Speaker 1: transfer news now. So okay, our's neighbor have signed Lewis
Speaker 1: Martin the wing for five years. I think he's about
Speaker 1: twenty two to twenty three years old, so not a
Speaker 1: bad bit of business.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a really exciting young talent. I think he
Speaker 2: topped the try scoring ranks last year. It's probably a
Speaker 2: little bit unlucky not to make the England squad for
Speaker 2: the Ashes. And yeah, one of the best young outside
Speaker 2: backs in England, so yeah, a great bit of business
Speaker 2: for them, a local junior to tie him down. Yeah
Speaker 2: both well.
Speaker 1: For the NRL is considering changing its name to the
Speaker 1: ea r L, the English and Australian Rugby League because
Speaker 1: there's that many English people being linked to clubs at
Speaker 1: the moment or already hear Cronuller Sharks are apparently the
Speaker 1: favorites to sign Owin Trout from Lee.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean the Perth Bears are in fro
Speaker 2: and Trout as well as Nikolai Lenski from Leeds. So
Speaker 2: there's been a few people joking that it will be
Speaker 2: the Perth Rhinos next year when they play their first game,
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's look, I think you look at the
Speaker 2: history of English forwards of the outer roll, there's not
Speaker 2: been many who haven't done well. It's very different when
Speaker 2: you look at spine players and outside backs. Not many
Speaker 2: have done well. But you know, your Burgesses, your your Graham's,
Speaker 2: your white Heads, your Bateman's, Morley Ellis, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: They generally do quite well. Manny Nicholson wis with these
Speaker 2: more recently. So yeah, Perth, you know, they need players
Speaker 2: and there's not a lot of players who seem willing
Speaker 2: to go from the East Coast over sign for Perth,
Speaker 2: so they're certainly mining super League for talent. And and
Speaker 2: Owen trout is, you know, an England international, one of
Speaker 2: the top forwards in Super League, and he's got quite
Speaker 2: a few offers. I think Lake in to keep him,
Speaker 2: but he's also got two clubs in the role after him.
Speaker 1: Michael Ledgki tried to get him to play for Poland
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen twenty nineteen for obvious.
Speaker 2: Reasons and did he tell you where to go?
Speaker 1: He wouldn't do that because he wouldn't be disrespectful to
Speaker 1: the country of his birth.
Speaker 2: He but no, he declined polightly.
Speaker 1: Well, he didn't end up playing John that's only need well.
Speaker 2: He's played five tests. He's played five Tests for England.
Speaker 2: He was involved in the recent ashes. Yeah, he was
Speaker 2: born in go Downs. I think he moved over to
Speaker 2: England at the age of five. But yeah, he's a
Speaker 2: good prop twenty seven years old. He's got an NRL
Speaker 2: clause in his contracts even though he's on the contract
Speaker 2: at Leeds. I think he can go off he wants, so, yeah,
Speaker 2: it't it wouldn't shock me to see him link up.
Speaker 1: With George Williams confirm now that he's going to the
Speaker 1: Dolphins in twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Secret, Yeah, worst kept secret that's been reported and
Speaker 2: talked about for if not half a year. It is
Speaker 2: an interesting one day because I don't know exactly when
Speaker 2: he came back. Was at twenty nineteen, maybe later, maybe
Speaker 2: it was twenty twenty one. He was obviously at Canberra
Speaker 2: and he did well at Canberra and I think, well
Speaker 2: the quote was, I think that his partner was homesick
Speaker 2: and he's had a couple of kids and he came
Speaker 2: back to Super League. He's obviously a wiganer, but Warrington
Speaker 2: offered him a lot more money and I think he
Speaker 2: said he wanted to go to Warrenton to win trophies,
Speaker 2: which hasn't happened. So he's going back to Australia and
Speaker 2: he's got to link up the Dolphins with Christian Wolf,
Speaker 2: who was obviously the formerce in Healn's coach. So it
Speaker 2: looks like it looks like it'll be him and easy
Speaker 2: Katara and the halves for the Dolphins in twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 1: Somebody who may end up in Australia because Joey loves him,
Speaker 1: is you and Irwin? And I think you quit excited
Speaker 1: about him this week?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think he I think it was
Speaker 2: rid of the last year he signed a five year
Speaker 2: deal or four you deal with Warrington. He's only eighteen,
Speaker 2: but yeah, Andrew Johns has waxed lyricle about him. And
Speaker 2: I didn't see the Warrington League game, but I did
Speaker 2: see the highlights and the try that he set up
Speaker 2: for Joe Filben and actually tried just to beautiful, took
Speaker 2: the border, the line and just that vision to dink
Speaker 2: in a grubber in between the defenders straight into Philman's
Speaker 2: lap to win the game. You know at eighteen, you don't,
Speaker 2: I mean, you're the coach and the analysis analyst Lee,
Speaker 2: but you don't see well, I haven't seen a lot
Speaker 2: of eighteen year old halfbacks do that in the first team,
Speaker 2: you know, against Ben with the pressure on. And you
Speaker 2: know Andrew Johns is probably the greatest player of all time.
Speaker 2: So if he rates him, he knows a bit about
Speaker 2: for So you know England needs England need halves, don't
Speaker 2: they le as the ashes has shown So.
Speaker 1: Phil Webster eighty five did you said I'm a cult
Speaker 1: and an analyst?
Speaker 2: Phil?
Speaker 1: Phil Webster ten on YouTube six hours ago about my
Speaker 1: okay analysis videos. I've never heard so much hogwash. This
Speaker 1: bloke is so Ouzzy centric it's unreal. I wouldn't let
Speaker 1: him near a school team.
Speaker 2: I think that's because of your conviction, isn't it. That's why.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to reply to him live. Well, I've
Speaker 1: had twelve years as a head coach of only high
Speaker 1: schools in ours.
Speaker 2: You just want to be australianly, that's your problem.
Speaker 1: N r L clubs, a couple of NRL clubs, et cetera.
Speaker 1: What's your qualification? Don't go on the trolls Sometimes I
Speaker 1: enjoy it going to kill him with kindness. Well, I
Speaker 1: called somebody beautiful, even though he called me all sorts
Speaker 1: of things some Super League quick fire previews lead Rhinos, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 2: I was shouting to Gary Sophiel today and as an
Speaker 2: ex league legend, he's tipped them to win the Colt
Speaker 2: this year. Look, I think they'll be I think they'll
Speaker 2: be up there. I think that'll be in the top three.
Speaker 2: Whether they can go away, I'm not convinced. But they
Speaker 2: did beat Okay twice last year and they've certainly got
Speaker 2: a very well balanced squad across the across the park,
Speaker 2: so I think with Brad Arthur there, they'll they have
Speaker 2: a good chance of winning something. Who left Sea, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean it was a big improvement last ye under
Speaker 2: John Carter right his first year. I'm just trying to
Speaker 2: think off the top of my head who they've recruited.
Speaker 2: I know they have signed the two back rows for
Speaker 2: Saint Helen's. Yeah, I think that'll they'll be pushing for
Speaker 2: the top six, whether they make it or not, but
Speaker 2: I can see him finishing around at seven six.
Speaker 1: Mark John Right. John Cartwright's a good coach.
Speaker 2: He's a very good coach. Look, I remember him as
Speaker 2: a as a great backroller, that's how old I am
Speaker 2: playing for for Penrith and too and so well as
Speaker 2: he had a season at Salford and he's been coaching
Speaker 2: for a long time and he did a great job
Speaker 2: there last year. So look, I think they're moving the
Speaker 2: right direction. Whether they can prove on last year may
Speaker 2: be difficult.
Speaker 1: I think he's still got the Titans the closest to
Speaker 1: the NRL Ground Final. Did he got them in deep
Speaker 1: and reeling, wasn't it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it was eleven. But yeah, he's he's
Speaker 2: certainly the most successful Titans coach in the history of
Speaker 2: that club. And yeah, I think he's he's a very
Speaker 2: good he's a very good coach and yeah, he's doing
Speaker 2: a good job.
Speaker 1: And I remember looking at their skills at the time
Speaker 1: and thinking they've been coached really well. Bradford Bulls, we've
Speaker 1: mentioned them a little bit already.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a tough it's a tough as we said,
Speaker 2: with so many new players making a switch from part
Speaker 2: time to full time new coach. Yeah, I think they're
Speaker 2: going to be in the bottom three. If they can
Speaker 2: avoid finishing bottom, that will be a success. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it'll be a difficult year for Bradford. Obviously
Speaker 2: their fans will be very happy they're back in Super
Speaker 2: Leg after ten years, which is pretty understandable. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I think they will find it difficult on the field
Speaker 2: in terms of getting results.
Speaker 1: We can work out Wakefield Trinity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, another one great season last year getting into the
Speaker 2: semi finals. I know they brought in Tyson Smoothie for
Speaker 2: the Broncos and Jazz Tavanga from Manly among others. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think I think they can repeat what they what
Speaker 2: they did. Daryl Powell is a good coach and knows
Speaker 2: what he's doing, very experienced, and I think they can
Speaker 2: make the semis. It will certainly be in that mix.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the French side to lose or one of the
Speaker 1: two French sides.
Speaker 2: Yeah, much like Bradford and York. It's going to be
Speaker 2: a really tough ass for them. They've got to pay
Speaker 2: something like close to a million euros for the travel
Speaker 2: and then then you get half the central distribution, so
Speaker 2: about six hundred and fifty thousand pounds. So recruitment has
Speaker 2: been minimal. They've not brought in many players. We've got
Speaker 2: Tyler Dupre online from Wigan but are full time, so
Speaker 2: that makes it easier, but yeah, I think finishing around twelve, thirteenth,
Speaker 2: fourteenth is probably what's going to happen for to lose Castle.
Speaker 1: For Tigers.
Speaker 2: Yeah again, whole almost a whole new squad there. Ryan
Speaker 2: Carr's coming from Saint Georgia and lare assistant coach. Like
Speaker 2: he has got experience in the English game. He was
Speaker 2: at FEV and he was in the running for the
Speaker 2: Leeds shop a couple of years ago. He's a talented
Speaker 2: young coach. I think he can improve them, but I
Speaker 2: can't see them making the top six and.
Speaker 1: The last one. So if you're wondering where the others are, guys,
Speaker 1: it's last week podcast. We did seven. This week we're
Speaker 1: doing seven Wigan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. Look, I think we're going to be
Speaker 2: in that top two, top three. They'll be pushing for silverware.
Speaker 2: Last year wasn't great for them, but they still finished
Speaker 2: second and made the Grand Final. With their fit players back,
Speaker 2: you know, with Bevan French firing, j Field firing, they
Speaker 2: can they can definitely, you know, I can definitely win something.
Speaker 2: They've still got that young talent that academy coming through,
Speaker 2: but they have lost a few players in terms of
Speaker 2: departures and I think maybe the question mark over the
Speaker 2: forwards have lost Harvey hild LFC and Liam Burna Warrington,
Speaker 2: so whether they can unearth some young gems from their
Speaker 2: academy will be a question mark.
Speaker 1: Media watch Michael Chamers, the Sydney Morning Herald journalist and
Speaker 1: TV commentator's firming to become the Papa New Guinea chief
Speaker 1: general manager of football type thing that news broke this
Speaker 1: week in Australia.
Speaker 2: I think the conversations that I have been enjoying the
Speaker 2: Ashes has obviously starred him onto the right partner. Yes,
Speaker 2: I think there was Andrew Andrew Webster broke that they
Speaker 2: were considering him for the gym of football for the
Speaker 2: Perth franchise. I think, you know, Michael didn't want to
Speaker 2: talk about it back in November March, but obviously Peter
Speaker 2: Landis is a big fan of his. He is. I
Speaker 2: think he's a very talented journo, great writer, smart, you
Speaker 2: know football brain, and yeah, it'll be an interesting challenge.
Speaker 2: You don't generally see people, you know, old school journals
Speaker 2: sort of making the shift into executive positions and muti
Speaker 2: league that much. So yeah, it's an interesting one. It's
Speaker 2: a big job at PG, isn't it with all the
Speaker 2: challenges they've got, So yeah, it'd be fascinating to watch
Speaker 2: see how he goes.
Speaker 1: The NRL have also hinted a possible game in Singapore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's Perth of Hinternet obviously Singapore. In
Speaker 2: terms of geography, I think it's about a three our flight.
Speaker 2: It's very close. They've got close links there. I mean
Speaker 2: I lived in Singapore for eighteen months and played a
Speaker 2: bit of touch footy out there. There's not really a
Speaker 2: rugby league scene. There's obviously a lot of it is
Speaker 2: the expats and kew expats and they have got great stages,
Speaker 2: but it is more of a rugby union country in
Speaker 2: that sense. But look, you know it's back by the government.
Speaker 2: Singapore is quite a wealthy place, so yeah, it could
Speaker 2: make sense.
Speaker 1: And there's lots of Australian and English tourists in Singapore,
Speaker 1: so they've probably turned out.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of expats, a lot of tourists. It's
Speaker 2: a very safe, clean place to live and to stay.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you can see single expensive though the beer
Speaker 2: is very very expensive. I think the Singapore Sevens are
Speaker 2: actually on the rugby sevens are actually on in Singapore
Speaker 2: right as we this weekend, so yeah, we'll wait and
Speaker 2: see on that one.
Speaker 1: Have you got to being on a job anyone this week?
Speaker 2: The only thing I'd say is just common courtesy when
Speaker 2: and it's not even something of my work, But if
Speaker 2: you're going to if you're going to write about something
Speaker 2: that another journalist has written about, particularly online, just give them,
Speaker 2: attribute them properly, give them a link, whether it's a
Speaker 2: hyperlink or you know, the name of the publication. Don't
Speaker 2: just nick it and write about it and use it
Speaker 2: for your own or at least say Johnny Davidson in
Speaker 2: the well, yeah, there's nothing to do with me. It's
Speaker 2: actually a colleague. We don't just put their name and said, oh,
Speaker 2: they wrote this, you know somewhere. Give them a proper
Speaker 2: link and an attribution, because it's not plagiarism. But it's
Speaker 2: just not really the dumb thing to do.
Speaker 1: So oh, people have been writing to me. I'm doing
Speaker 1: a free webinar on February eighteenth for coaches. If you're interested,
Speaker 1: email me. I'm minute Rugby league coach dot com dot
Speaker 1: are you somebody whose name are recognized from the Rugby
Speaker 1: League World sent me an email that said free webinar.
Speaker 1: That was it? Not Hi, Please can I come on
Speaker 1: the free webinar? My name is thank you? And there's
Speaker 1: loads of them, loads people mentioned me just so Lee's
Speaker 1: laugh this week, it's that Mike Ford picture. So as
Speaker 1: you've already hinted, the way that Oldham released the fact
Speaker 1: that Mike Ford was leaving, or the way that Mike
Speaker 1: Ford released that he was leaving was a little bit comical.
Speaker 1: But somewhere in there was a picture of Mike Ford
Speaker 1: that I think he staged it.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: They've I think he's gone right, I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 1: pack in at the end of this game. I'm just
Speaker 1: going to stand here and watch the warm up. Can
Speaker 1: you take a picture of me? That's literally what it
Speaker 1: looks like. And it looks like he's looking across the vista.
Speaker 1: You know, he could be he could be on a
Speaker 1: bridge overlooking a canalo or something. The way he's looking.
Speaker 2: At he didn't use II true, it's true, but it
Speaker 2: definitely looks like he staged it. And one of the
Speaker 2: comments underneath the tweet was somebody described his shoes as
Speaker 2: Bobby Dazzler's because he's dressed in black, but he's got
Speaker 2: quite a bright pair of tan shoes on that stand out.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I just found it a very strange way
Speaker 2: of announcing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, by all means put a picture, but that
Speaker 1: kind of picture just seemed a bit I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know where it seemed.
Speaker 2: I think the timing. The timing was unusual, the picture
Speaker 2: and an empty Landon stadium was unusual. Yeah, yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 2: obviously a statement that alludes to certain things. But isn't
Speaker 2: that clear? Yeah, it's just added to the long list
Speaker 2: of pick rugby league instances where we left.
Speaker 1: Go to the Rugby League coach YouTube channel, have a
Speaker 1: look for a video called the White Wall Brisbane have
Speaker 1: to break to be World Champions and that is the
Speaker 1: video that I've been accused of being so ussy centric.
Speaker 1: And I've done analysis of u k R's defense. Now,
Speaker 1: what people don't understand John is even though a defense
Speaker 1: stops people scoring, sometimes it doesn't mean it's perfect. And
Speaker 1: also the quality of the attack of Wigan. I am very,
Speaker 1: very very convinced husband's attack, if it clicks, will be better.
Speaker 1: Am I am? I on a different planet there to
Speaker 1: the rest of the rugby league World or did you
Speaker 1: say Wigan then you went whky are no Wigan's attack
Speaker 1: attacking against who krs defense listening skills Johnny, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think yeah, yeah, So Ryche Wolks is going to be
Speaker 1: better than some of the attackers in the Wigan side,
Speaker 1: so obviously the defense is only as good as what's
Speaker 1: thrown at it as well. Yes, yes, it's called being
Speaker 1: an analyst or some people like to think of me
Speaker 1: an analyst or not one of them. So that video
Speaker 1: is now separate on YouTube because we tend to have
Speaker 1: long podcast now. So in terms of the future of
Speaker 1: this podcast, it's likely to come out on Monday morning
Speaker 1: UK time now because myself and John are going to
Speaker 1: record on Sunday nights reviewing the Super League Round. Otherwise
Speaker 1: the podcast would age very quickly if we brought it
Speaker 1: out later in the week. But so you're not going
Speaker 1: to get a podcast for about nine days because I'm
Speaker 1: not promising this first one. But what me and John
Speaker 1: want to do on a Thursday or a Friday is
Speaker 1: do a short after a game, immediately after the game,
Speaker 1: so John will either be at the game or he'll
Speaker 1: be watching on TV, depending on what the game is
Speaker 1: on a Thursday or a Friday, and we're going to
Speaker 1: do instant reactions after the first either a Thursday game
Speaker 1: or a Friday game. The problem is, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to promise it next week, John, because I might not
Speaker 1: be in good Wi Fi, because I might be in
Speaker 1: the bush somewhere. So we will try, but the week
Speaker 1: after we're definitely going to do it, aren't with John,
Speaker 1: which will be the World Cup Challenge week. So you
Speaker 1: might have a little wait for your next Super League
Speaker 1: three sixty, but don't worry. It will be worth the wait. Johnny,
Speaker 1: Where can people get you again?
Speaker 2: You can get me on a Patreon at Rugby leagueub
Speaker 2: dot com, longray so they can get me in the
Speaker 2: ipaper on Exit Johnny d Davidson and a Facebook at
Speaker 2: John Davidson a journalist.
Speaker 1: And Amilyaddison Rugby League Coach dot Comma tay you admin
Speaker 1: at Rugby League Coach dot coma tey you if you
Speaker 1: want to email me at Rugby League Coach on social media.
Speaker 1: I'm naka John. Stop making me do these things in mornings.
Speaker 1: Take care