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Speaker 1: Me too. My welcome everybody.

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Speaker 2: Just give it a chance. Don't leave, don't leave the chat.

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Speaker 1: Somebody just left and that hurts my feelings.

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Speaker 2: Why would you leave the chats minerals?

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Speaker 1: Somebody just left the Twitter space? Someone that heard the song?

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Come back?

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Speaker 2: Why did y'all leave? Don't?

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Speaker 1: What's up? Yes, it's it's going down like that? Like

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what oh? What oh? What's that? Thank you? Sanky panky panky.

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That's right, It's time for the debate review. It's been

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so long. When was the last time we did it?

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Even a debate review? What the hell is even that?

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I don't remember. It's been a long ass time. I

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know that much. It was probably Lennox, not Lennox, Lennox

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Lewis versus Tyson John Lennox versus Dicky Dawkins. I don't

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even remember. But so many people have requested this, but

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there hasn't been any good debates in a long time

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to actually do this too. And let's see, I forgot

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to put the link for the people to call in.

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You know what I'm saying this is this is this

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is a populism situation. This one for the people. We

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want you to call in. You know what I'm saying, Colleen,

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let me put the link in the show description. In

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the show description from Scripples all, y'all, Scripples got to leave.

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So yes, we opened it up in a little while,

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and I'm gonna explaining to you what's going I'm gonna

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explain what's going on too, because I've been sicker. Hell boy,

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I've been sick as a hell. Literally, y'all have no

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idea how sick I've been. I've been. I was so

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sick by the way, I had to cancel the comedy event.

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You think I wanted to cancel the comedy event my

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third time performing Crypto Core Crypto Cringe Core Live. You

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think I wanted to cancel that? Hell No. I had

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one hundred and two fever for about three days. But

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that wasn't even the hard part. So I got some

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kind of so basically, Abola had done had done fter

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around with freaking neurovirus and they created a gay child

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that infected my stomach. So I had the worst stomach

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flu for the last week. I mean, dude, oh dude,

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And to be honest with you, I'm still a little sick.

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But I wanted to do the stream so bad that

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I didn't want to say no, so we're still gonna

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do it. Uh, And everybody loves these debate reviews. I

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mean some of these have gotten well, they've gone a

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lot of views. So, I mean, dude, I was so sick.

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You ever be su Yeah, I feel like a stand

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up community you ever be a black stand up? Ever

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be so sick that your ass just wake up in

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the middle of the night, don't even know where your

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ass at, and you over your ass is googling shit

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you don't even care about, but suddenly you do care

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about it. You don't, y'all know what I'm talking about.

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Y'all have a your ass is so sick. You over

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here watching documentaries on Project Pat trying to figure out

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where he's at. Look what happened to him? We're at

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I'm listen, man, I'm trying to figure out what happened

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to Project Pat. Right now, I'm as solved as mystery.

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You ever been as sick? That's how sick I was.

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And he is, Okay, I'm like eighty percent good, but

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I'm about got gangster boot and Project Pat mystery is solved.

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Speaker 2: Ballers, we will be on some twink and Twinkie play it.

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Speaker 1: Hey, this guy found stank and stanky, tricking fat bloods up,

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dank and danky, big diamond rings on a pinky panky.

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That's what I'm talking about. How did I get through

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being sick? Project Pat? That's how I got through. And

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by the way, in case you're wondering, In case you're wondering,

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I found Uh, my plan is going according to My

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long term plan is going coming to fruition. Okay, keep

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in mind I am a little sick still, so you'll

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have to be patient with me. My long term plan

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to surpass Project Pat and importance and popularity is coming

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to fruition, as you can see on the long term

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twelve month chart right here. Okay, as we come closer

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to October, you see a steady bit of a climb

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and a steady decline a Project PET. So what I'm

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trying to say is twenty twenty five, twenty twenty five

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were about to surpass Project PET. Now onto other key information.

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Don't worry people, I see y'all leaving.

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Speaker 3: This is a talking about Jordan Peterson.

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Speaker 1: Who is Project PET?

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Speaker 3: Why is this person talking about Jordan Peterson?

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Speaker 1: What is this?

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Speaker 2: What is this rule? But I have stumbled too. This

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place ain't for you. This place is only for true ballers.

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Get your ass out of here. This is how I

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weed out.

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Speaker 1: The low IQ people that don't know what's going on. Anyway,

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I found something out of this thing. Look, I couldn't

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resist it. We all know, right. I mean, it's almost

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as if the Pope of the future predicted exactly what

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was to come, and the prophecies are are being fulfilled

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in our day. The Vatican has announced essentially a funko pop.

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The obvious comment to make was funko Pope. But I

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can't overlook the fact that one of my favorite characters,

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the Pope of the Future, is intimately connected to my

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hit song being married to a funko pop. And what

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do we have the Roman Cally Church celebrating whatever the

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hell this is. This looks like a damn bad trip

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right here. I mean, I don't do LSD nomo, but

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I mean this looks like the shit that the dude

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from Memphis puts the LSD on. This is the tab

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of paper that the dude, the quird old dude from

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Memphis puts the ls D on. Okay, it looks like this.

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It's got a bunch of them halfway anime, purple haired,

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freak trippy whatever it is? Right is it looks like?

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Is this like The Grateful Dead mixed with like anime

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mixed with p p ed Oh and it's made by

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something called toky Dokie. Oh what do they design?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Look what they designed? Well, they design t R A

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n Z and whatever the hell of this? This is

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straight out of hell right here. And this is the

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official Fonco Pope mascot of a Roman gallic church. Her

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name is Loose. Look she got shit on her goloshes too.

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Look at that. Nobody even paid attention. She got a

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raincoat and then she's got a bunch of damn shit

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on her goloshes. She's been walking through all that bullshit.

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The room teaches, I'm not joking either, Look at it.

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Speaker 2: What the hell is that? What the hell is even

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that ballas we be on some twink and Twinkie play

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aheads get found stanky stanky tricking fat blood sa that

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danky danky, big diamond rings on a panky panky, That's

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what I'm talking about. I'll take Project.

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Speaker 1: Pat over the official mass Kote Jubilee with her shit

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covered galoshes over here, what the hell? And look who

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called it all? You boy right here, the Pope of

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the future. That's here. The Pope of the future warns

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you about costco cities and that you would be living

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in a Walmart and a Costco and it happened. They

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really exist. Now I warned you about the marriage to

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a funco pop future. Now the Roman Church has its

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own funko pop. We're only a decade away from a

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funko pope. So let's let's let's let's give a hand

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to the progress. Let's give a hand to progress. Now

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the trad Cats twenty five and under on the Internet

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are cheering this on. You can't make this up. You

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can't make this You think the Tradcats can't get any dummer.

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Now they're cheering this on. This is to put it

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in the terms of one of them, adorable. Adorable anyway,

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what the hell else is going on? I don't know

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if I got energy for a lot of Dawkins impression.

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So I'm gonna play my Dawkins for you right now.

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Get it out of the way. A lot of y'all

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came here just for the Dawkins impression. Like I said,

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I'm about eighty percent better from my gastro intestinal aids,

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so let's just get the impression out of the way.

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Speaker 4: But Throw hoped to give me the warm cookies, and

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dang d I want to coach a little Christianity. But

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the Throw helped give me the warm cookies.

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Speaker 1: And I just realized that none of y'all even saw

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any of that stupid ship because I didn't have it

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pulled up on the right screen. Look, I'm sick, so

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I'm out of it. Right. Look here you go. Okay,

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I'm y'all. Now y'all could see it is the damn

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Mike even on I I've been talking to myself this

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whole time. Let's see. Okay, now you can see I'm

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gonna show you the shit again.

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Speaker 4: I want to cot Christianity, but hoped to give me

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the wrong cookie. There we go.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm talking about, some real Richard Dawkins. Now

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I gotta go back and reshow you because the stupid

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ass thing was on the wrong page.

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Speaker 2: This.

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Speaker 1: Oh look here, so here's my project pat saying. I

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was trying to Look, I'm gonna make it quick. Don't worry.

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We're already running people off my long term plan to

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surpass Project PAT and importance of popularities come to fruition.

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As you can see at the edge of the graph,

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there's a sharp decline in Project PAT and you see

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a little bit of a bump there. So I think

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by twenty twenty five we're gonna be We're gonna be

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the true baller. Now to bring it back to the

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main point about the funk, go Pope. There it is. Yes,

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it's real. A lot of people, yes, it is real.

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And there you can see a creepy goblin looking archbishop

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reaching out to grasp this idol again, looking like it

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am if grateful dead had sex with an acid trip

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and produce this and then they were ppeed oh with

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it's that's what this looks like. And then to show

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you what I'm talking about here it is loose. There

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she is. Yes, it's real. Yes, they're promoting it. It's

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quote adorable. As you can see her galoshes are covered

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in shit. She's literally walking through all the bullshit of

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the Vatican. It's by the way, it's like all straight up, well,

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I mean I know this is basically what's been coming

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out of me for the last five days straight. So

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she been walking through my bathroom. Basically, anyway, let's time

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to get Look, people are getting mad at leaving. Let's

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get to what y'all wanted to hear, which is my

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breakdown of every Project Pat song starting with Ballers. Right.

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Is that why y'all are here or not? I don't know?

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All right, yo, what's up? By the way, you want

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to support the stream, you can do. So. We got

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a nice fat crowd that's emerging over here on YouTube.

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My dumb ass jokes are filtering out the low IQ people.

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That's how it works. I have a Malthusian practice of

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bad jokes. It's mouth Thusianism. It ferrets out them low

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IQ boys. It's called comedy Malthusianism, so that we only

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have the highest IQ remaining over here in the room. Right.

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What do y'all think about the official mascota here loose

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with her shit covered goloshes? Y'all like that? That shit

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is adorable according to the tragcats. Okay, whatever, okay, uh

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huh uh. By the way, if you want to call in,

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here's the exce link for the day's show down. My

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rings on my panky pankey. I'm just glad to be alive, honestly,

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like I felt like I felt like I was gonna die.

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For a few days. I had such a fever dream

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I was having fever dreams, and I'm seeing angels in

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my fever dreams doing like making legal contracts on whether

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I could be sick or not. Just shit, that makes

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no sense, right, I mean, I'm not literally saying I

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was having visions. I'm saying it was a dreams. We're

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gonna have a damn funko pope in the next ten years.

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What are you talking about? Ball us?

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Speaker 2: We be on some twinky twinkies, play a heay, just

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get found stinky stanky trigger fat blunts of that danky

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danky big diamond rings on a pinky pinky.

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Speaker 1: So again, I just cleared out about five retorts. That

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just cleared out five slow boys right there out of

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the chat. Get gone, shoo shoo, shoshoo. This ain't for

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you anyhow. Anyway, that's enough of this. I can't even

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look at this, like you see what I'm saying. What

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is this? This is what that weird ass dude in

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Memphis puts the LSD on. You ever seen LSD tab

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or whatever a strip? It looks like that dude. It's

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like a bunch of weird ass damn Japanese cartoon characters

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that Jerry Garcia drew. That's what I'm talking about. And

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I'm supposed to think that's a I guess that is

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the mascot of the Vatican. Now did you see the

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other since I didn't show you all this, this is

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the same company what they design a bunch of just

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freaking It looks like who's that woman from the Lisa Lisa?

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It looks like Lisa Frank went to hell. Dude, Lisa

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Frank got demonically possessed by the spirit of Jerry Garcia

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and drew a bunch of this shit. That's what it is.

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And tell me that ain't demonic Lisa Frank. Tell me

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I didn't nail that shit right there? I did you know?

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I did? Talking about a talk about a trapper keeper.

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That's a trapper keeper in hell, dude, that'll trap and

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keep you in hell. Right there? You put that on

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a trapper keeper, you trapping and keeping your soul in hell? Boy,

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diamond rings on my pank panke, I'm maan to my

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funko ohopope, Oh all right, I guess we better get started,

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We never gonna get started. Oh I wanted to play

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this too, because everybody forgot this. You all remember this,

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and everybody knows. I can't stand George Carling. I don't

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think he's funny at all. Oh well, just big club.

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You don't need it, boom a nihilism, big club. You

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don't nothing funny about George Carling in my opinion. Okay,

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and I don't mind him talking. I mean, okay, it's

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cool that he critiques the system or whatever, but that

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doesn't mean he's funny. But this, and by the way,

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I don't even think this movie is very good, but this,

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this clip is actually perfect. Do you remember this? I

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mean literally the first thing I thought of when I

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saw this was Catholicism. Wow. So that dumbass movie Dogma,

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and it's like it's a Kevin Smith movie. Right. Do

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you remember how it begins. It begins with Buddy Christ

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And I think people actually started making these kind of

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as a joke, right, yeah, everybody remembers it. Ringe is

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I'm a pankcake. By the way, if you guys want

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to support the stream, yes, just like that good Man

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did right there, you can do it via super chats.

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There's a super chat right there. I mean again, I

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don't really think you got to give Kevin Smith some

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props for this though, because like this is almost prophetic. Dude,

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look at that. They made it like a comic book.

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Catholicism Wow, like punch pow.

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Speaker 5: Now we all know how the majority and the media

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in this country view the Catholic Church.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna skip ahead because I don't want to

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ding the copyright. So he basically just says we got

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to get hit with the times. Now, remember this is satire,

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So this is like what two thousand and two three

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somewhere in there, so this was considered satirical nonsense. All

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They would never make pop culture dolls to promote Catholicism,

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so absurd. That's like an evangelical thing. And remember evangelicals

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were doing dumb crap like this in the nineties. Buddy

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of Christ, Buddy Christ, right, I mean, Buddy Christ is

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not even as bad as Loose. This is ten times

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worse because there's nothing had to row about Louz. Dude,

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That's what I'm trying to say. So anyway, all right,

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let's get to it or we'll never get out of here, right,

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we'll never get to deconstructing every project, project pass on.

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I've not seen any of this debate. I will have

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to maybe it's not even really a quote debate. I

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will have to move around a little bit because if

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I was to say sedentary my whole life, I would die.

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I will have to move around a little bit into

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debate because I don't want to ding the daily wired

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ding dong dang. You know what I mean. So thank

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you guys for those super chats. We will open it.

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Maybe we'll open it up period throughout this discussion. What

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do you guys think We'll see We'll see how it goes.

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All right, let's kick it off with our good boy

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Dickie Dawkins over here, over here hissing with a little

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hissy fit with his little damn snake brain and his

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snake altar coming out hissing.

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Speaker 6: Which all humans have as a virtue of being a human.

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Something that's built in. So it's not something that spreads

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as an epidemic. It's something that we all have anyway.

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And I suppose that it could turn into a meme,

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but I would think it would be mudding the waters

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to even say that there's something very much in common

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between an archetype.

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Speaker 7: And the meme.

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Speaker 8: Memes are not embedded into the psychology of people.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so the discussion is about memes versus archetypes. If

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you don't know, Dickie Dawkins is I guess the father

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of coining the term meme through his genetic books or whatever.

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And of course Peterson sort of being the natural successor

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to kral Young, I guess you could say, prefers the

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principle of archetypes. So they're kicking this discussion off with

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comparing these two ideas.

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Speaker 6: There are things like the backwards baseball hat, which is

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not an archetype. I mean it's it's something that becomes

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fashionable and spreads as an epidemic around the population, which

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is very different from an archetype, which is sort of

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built in.

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Speaker 8: Yes, I've heard you in the past, Octopeterson say that

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the means.

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Speaker 1: I got a damn epidemic. That must have been whatever

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I got in my stomach must have caused me to

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turn my hat around. It's a brilliant analogy there, Richard.

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Speaker 5: Like.

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Speaker 3: Turning the hat around, it's like an epidemic.

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Speaker 8: Very similar, if not almost identical to an archetype. Almost

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as if you kept pushing the idea of what a

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meme is, you might end up with an archetype.

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Speaker 5: I think maybe the appropriate way of tying the two

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ideas together, given what doctor Dawkins just said, is the

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is to notice the fact that something spreads because it

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catches right. And so things catch because they have an

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emotional resonance, and so they attract people's interest, and so

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they attract them in an exploratory manner. That'd be one

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way of thinking about it. That would be attraction on

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the positive emotion side, or they attract them on the

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negative emotion side, and so that would loop the idea

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of the catchiness of an idea, a meme, let's say,

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with the more underlying motivational structures, and as the idea

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is more related to the action of underlying biological motivational structures,

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it becomes more and more expression of something that's instinctual

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and archetypal. Like Giung defined, an archetype essentially is something

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like the manifestation of an instinct in image and then

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also in behavior. So the deepest level is something like

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the instinct, and that would be motivational or emotional drive

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and then there's a manifestation of that in imagination and behavior,

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and it's more culturally constructed there. And you could also

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imagine that there are depths of these ideas, the baseball

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hat idea, for example, that would be something that's manifesting

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itself at a fairly shallow level. But there's a reason.

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Speaker 1: Oh did doctor JBP just call my baseball hat turn

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around backwards a low level archetype?

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Speaker 9: Damn boy, he hurting feelings out here. He out here

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dissing people at that archetype level. He's dropping them. Psychoanalytical freakin.

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He needs to be in a damn battle rap in

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a damn psychoanalysis about he's hurting people's feelings out here.

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Speaker 1: He said, that's a low look. Next up, we might

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as well just be straight up, David Ike. Low vibrational frequencies.

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Turning the hot round backwards is low vibrational frequencies in

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its manifesting. The cheeta OOHI.

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Speaker 5: At the backwards baseball hat caught on. You know, it

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speaks of the moment for whatever reason, and it's linked

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to the biology.

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Speaker 1: I knew that Ikata project Pat into this somehow. Project

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Pat is where backwards baseball hat came from right, y'all

367
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,200
didn't know that. Look at that right there, proof proof.

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Look at that proof.

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Speaker 2: Ballers we be on some twink and Twinkie player haters

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get found stank it stanky, tricky fat bluffs that dank

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you danky big dummer rings on a pinky panky all

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the black dudes.

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Speaker 1: In the chat five of him right now, like damn

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that white boy got a floro. No, no, nobody even

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knew that the meme of turning your hat backwards had

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come from a proj pat.

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Speaker 5: Through the fact that it captures interest for some reason.

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Speaker 8: So perhaps something like uh, the archetype being a more

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fundamental psychological concept that memes can then play upon the

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backwards touches on.

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Speaker 1: Well that see what happened? A cosmic skeptic, he looks

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00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:37,759
like a damn village person. He looks like he's about

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to do some arresting for the village people. You know

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00:26:41,519 --> 00:26:43,200
what I mean? He looks like a cop in the

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village people. If you know what I mean, what.

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Speaker 5: The heck station of that imagination?

387
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,599
Speaker 1: Dude trying to be on chips but not not chips

388
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,640
don't even exist anymore. He trying to be He's trying

389
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,319
to be in a what do you call those men?

390
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,359
A hot cops. He's trying to be in hot Not

391
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,720
that I think he's hot. I don't because I like girls.

392
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:06,799
But remember cosmic skeptic, remember that, we remember we review

393
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,000
that debate. By the way, every debate I've heard him

394
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,359
in he loses insanely like he needs to be arrested

395
00:27:14,599 --> 00:27:18,359
by the debate police. By the way, I'm I'm the

396
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,079
debate police. I place you under a damn citizen's arrest

397
00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:25,400
while you're over there with that gay cop. Look, you

398
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,799
need to go to debate jail because you suck. You're

399
00:27:27,799 --> 00:27:30,559
the worst debater I've ever heard out here in the

400
00:27:30,599 --> 00:27:33,839
public sphere. You need to be at the damn public

401
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:40,960
gallows for your debate. Y'all have heard my me critique

402
00:27:41,039 --> 00:27:42,319
his debates. We don't have to go.

403
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,519
Speaker 5: There and behavior and it's more culturally constructed there. And

404
00:27:46,599 --> 00:27:49,599
you could also imagine that there are depths of these ideas.

405
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,039
The baseball hat idea, for example, that would be something

406
00:27:54,039 --> 00:27:57,119
that's manifesting itself at a fairly shallow level. But there's

407
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,240
a reason that the backwards baseball hat caught up on

408
00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:03,000
you know, it speaks of the moment for whatever reason,

409
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,039
and and it's linked to the biology through the fact

410
00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:10,319
that it captures interest for some reason.

411
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Speaker 8: So perhaps something like uh, the archetype being a.

412
00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:21,599
Speaker 1: More so they're just really uh, sort of feeling out,

413
00:28:22,079 --> 00:28:26,799
fleshing out what archetypes are. Am I getting that damn

414
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,839
warning about playing too much of I wonder if I

415
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,200
just play the audio. You think that would work, You

416
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,079
think it's detective. I think I'm gonna get that warning

417
00:28:36,079 --> 00:28:39,160
for let me drop playing audio because I think I

418
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,359
did this last time. So we're gonna put it on

419
00:28:42,519 --> 00:28:50,160
the face of Project pat and then then it won't uh,

420
00:28:50,359 --> 00:28:51,319
it won't ding nothing.

421
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 8: Let's try that fundamental psychological concepts that the memes can

422
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,759
then play upon the backwards on.

423
00:28:57,319 --> 00:28:59,119
Speaker 7: Well, that seems implausible to me.

424
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,519
Speaker 6: But the idea that the archetype could be a reason

425
00:29:02,599 --> 00:29:05,440
why some means spread, that seems to me to be

426
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,200
plausible with archetypes at all.

427
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 8: But you prefer to think of means or you do

428
00:29:09,519 --> 00:29:12,039
think of means as you refer to them as a virus.

429
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 6: Yes, it doesn't have to happen. It's a spreadibility, which is

430
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,920
which is a salient point. And if chiming in with

431
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,400
an archetype. Is something is a reason why they might spread,

432
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,079
then I could go with that.

433
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, and presumably archetypes don't act in the same way.

434
00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:30,200
They don't spread through cultures, they don't sort of grow

435
00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:33,759
up and die in individual generations. They're much more foundational

436
00:29:33,799 --> 00:29:34,039
than that.

437
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,119
Speaker 5: I think you have to think about it hierarchically. You

438
00:29:39,119 --> 00:29:42,680
know that there are there's something in the in the

439
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,200
structure that that would make itself manifest as an archetype.

440
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,680
There's something that's foundational and deep that wouldn't change over.

441
00:29:50,599 --> 00:29:56,039
Speaker 1: To me, there's nothing funnier having the sole discussion be

442
00:29:56,119 --> 00:30:02,920
focused around Project Path. I just wanted to test y'all

443
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,240
out because I knew that today was gonna be I'm

444
00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:10,279
too sick to be super super serious and intellectual. I mean,

445
00:30:10,279 --> 00:30:12,960
we're gonna, we're actually gonna we're gonna talk about this,

446
00:30:13,079 --> 00:30:16,039
but like, just to make this whole thing about Project Pat,

447
00:30:16,079 --> 00:30:19,480
which is so random, and shout out to BG Comby

448
00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:22,920
because when the first day I met BG Combyduo showed

449
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,319
up with a Project Pat shirt from the damn nineties.

450
00:30:25,599 --> 00:30:30,119
I thought that was funny. So anyway, that's the kind

451
00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:34,640
of shit I think is funny. All right, let's get

452
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,119
back to project Peterson wouldn't.

453
00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 5: Change any faster in sense than the species itself changes,

454
00:30:41,359 --> 00:30:44,359
But then there would be efflorescences of that idea that

455
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,000
would be less permanent as they as they were more

456
00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:53,799
attuned to the specifics of the time. So, and that's

457
00:30:53,839 --> 00:30:57,319
not saying anything different really than saying that there are

458
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,759
ideas that make themselves manifest at different level of depth,

459
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,880
which is also a complex thing. Like it's not that

460
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,920
easy to specify what makes an idea deep, which makes

461
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,599
it more archetypal, and what makes it transient and trivial.

462
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,279
There's a relationship between such ideas. There's no idea so

463
00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:16,480
trivial that it doesn't touch the depths because no one

464
00:31:16,519 --> 00:31:21,240
would care about it, right, So, but archetypal ideas do

465
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,440
have that capacity to spread virally and to rise and fall.

466
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,559
You see that, I think you see that in the

467
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:33,039
history of religious ideas. Know that religious ideas are very

468
00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:37,240
can be very catching, because otherwise they wouldn't spread. Now

469
00:31:37,559 --> 00:31:41,240
they do. There's variation in them like there is in languages,

470
00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:44,759
but they also there's also something that's core that makes

471
00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:47,960
them identifiable. Let's say, as religious ideas rather than as

472
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,039
any other sort of idea. I mean one of the

473
00:31:50,079 --> 00:31:52,599
things I was really interested about. I sent you an

474
00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:55,480
email at one time asking you if you had read

475
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,599
Richie Eliot, especially The Sacred and the Profane. But he

476
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,880
also has a three books he's called A History of

477
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,480
Religious Ideas.

478
00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: Hello, these are all four books that I've promoted for

479
00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:14,279
and analyzed and read for years. So somebody asked too

480
00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:16,160
at the beginning of this chat. They were like, has

481
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,559
Peterson ever done a TAG? Yes, he's actually come really

482
00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:24,200
close to TAG. So and again I can't prove this.

483
00:32:24,359 --> 00:32:26,319
I don't know. I'm not that worried about it, or

484
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:27,799
it's not that big of a deal to me, But

485
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,160
I suspect that Peterson has listened to some of my

486
00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:34,720
content at some point. It's very plausible to given the

487
00:32:34,759 --> 00:32:37,279
fact that you know, we've done podcasts with Pageot. I've

488
00:32:37,279 --> 00:32:42,680
known Pege for several years. So now I'm not saying

489
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,599
that he got these books. These were around way before

490
00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:49,480
you know, I was doing stuff. Iliada is a very

491
00:32:49,519 --> 00:32:52,759
famous comparative religion scholar. The books are very interesting. They're

492
00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:56,640
really well done compared to religion texts, and Sacred and

493
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,480
the Profane is one of the best. That's a great

494
00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:07,759
introduction to religious you know, compared to religion. So these

495
00:33:07,799 --> 00:33:09,960
are really good books. It's interesting that he brings them up.

496
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,720
They would be actually probably a good segue if you

497
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,440
were talking to somebody who was like a super atheist type.

498
00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:26,279
Materials like Dawkins like a good introduction to religious archetypes

499
00:33:26,519 --> 00:33:29,680
would definitely be Sacred in the Profane. And I've not

500
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,960
read this whole trilogy. I've read I think the first one,

501
00:33:33,519 --> 00:33:35,599
but I have read Sacred in the Profane. It's really good.

502
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,079
So I do recommend those books for anyone interested in

503
00:33:39,599 --> 00:33:45,240
religious compared to religion. So again, I am still a

504
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,000
little sick, so keep that in mind. I'm not at

505
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:53,960
one percent capacity, right, I'm not at one hundred percent

506
00:33:54,359 --> 00:34:00,799
patpacity project capacity. I'm only at eighty percent project today.

507
00:34:02,559 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 5: I really like a History of religious ideas. It's a

508
00:34:05,039 --> 00:34:07,559
great book. And one of the things it does is

509
00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:13,599
analyze a particular widespread religious motif, which is the battle

510
00:34:14,039 --> 00:34:16,960
between the gods in heaven. You see this idea in

511
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:20,760
many many cultures, and each god is the expression of

512
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,679
a motive perception or a modive being. And what you

513
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,280
see happening in multitude of cultures. Is that there are many,

514
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,159
many ways of seeing the world enacting in it that

515
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:36,360
are metamorphous metamorphois.

516
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 1: I like al Jordan Pearson like goes into like this

517
00:34:38,039 --> 00:34:41,480
like shut down mode to like remember all this stuff.

518
00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:44,639
But what are you saying here is actually true? This

519
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,840
is this is what's in the books that he's talking about.

520
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:52,519
Speaker 5: I see into something divine. And as cultures mingle and mix,

521
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,679
their gods compete in the space of the imagination and

522
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,119
something like a hierarchy forms. That's the emergence of something

523
00:35:01,159 --> 00:35:03,800
like monotheism and the associate.

524
00:35:04,039 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: So here I have to disagree. And of course this

525
00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:17,599
really depends on your presuppositions of belief. For unbelief, for example,

526
00:35:17,679 --> 00:35:22,840
if you believe the record of Genesis, then you don't

527
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,599
believe that quote. Monotheism is something that evolves or that

528
00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:31,400
emerges after a period of animism and then polytheism and

529
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:38,639
then monotheism. Right, So most secular religious portrayals of the

530
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:44,320
history of religions have that process of like primitive animism, polytheism,

531
00:35:45,159 --> 00:35:51,440
and then monotheism, which isn't really accurate because if you

532
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:57,079
believe the Bible, right, it was always true monarchical trinitarian monotheism.

533
00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:01,440
You could say the monotheism being mono God, the One God,

534
00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:08,119
the Father. That's different than the late sixteen hundred's arising

535
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:12,000
of the term monotheism. But that also plays into this.

536
00:36:12,079 --> 00:36:14,320
And you guys know in this audience from all the

537
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,639
debates that we've had with the Muslims, for example, that

538
00:36:17,679 --> 00:36:22,199
this is why it's really important to explain monarchical trinitarianism.

539
00:36:23,159 --> 00:36:27,280
So that plays into this. Just keep that in mind. Now.

540
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:28,639
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Speaker 8: We've been talking a little bit about the concept of

584
00:39:18,079 --> 00:39:20,159
the meme. I think it would be strange to be

585
00:39:20,199 --> 00:39:22,440
suspicious of the idea that memes are a thing that

586
00:39:22,519 --> 00:39:24,559
do exist and transmit, but there might be more room

587
00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:27,519
for suspicion about this concept of the archetype. I was wondering,

588
00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:29,800
Professor Dawkins, what you think about the concept of archetypes

589
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:30,239
in general.

590
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 6: Well, for example, if we take the idea of the

591
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,840
gods competing with each other, that I take it is

592
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:41,320
a proper archetype because it's present in all cultures. I

593
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,880
presumly mean it's something that's built in genetically. Ultimately, I

594
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:51,480
suppose that there's something about our brains makes different cultures

595
00:39:51,639 --> 00:39:56,760
invent the same kinds of religious symbols and things like

596
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,960
a battle between gods is one. That's one and there

597
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,519
might be others. It's not that convincing. I mean, it's

598
00:40:03,519 --> 00:40:05,719
such an obvious thing because we have human battles and

599
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,800
therefore ideern battles between gods would not be that implausible.

600
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,840
So it doesn't strike me as a very penetrating observation.

601
00:40:13,519 --> 00:40:16,119
Speaker 5: Well, I think the thing that's interesting about it, the

602
00:40:16,159 --> 00:40:19,239
thing that's been interesting to me about it, is is

603
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,480
to start to understand the nature of the universal themes

604
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,760
and how they're expressed in stories. I mean, one of

605
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,760
the things I wanted to explore with you because I

606
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,719
think this is an idea that's at the core of

607
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,199
the cultural conflict, is the postmodern type seem to have

608
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,800
stumbled onto something which I actually think is true. And

609
00:40:36,199 --> 00:40:39,760
they're not the only discipline that's come to this realization,

610
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,360
because you can see it emerging in neuroscience and in

611
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,440
AI and in robotics as well, that we see the

612
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,440
world of facts through something that when described as a story,

613
00:40:52,679 --> 00:40:55,440
because we have to prioritize our perceptions, we have to

614
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,480
prioritize facts, and as far as I can tell, a

615
00:40:58,519 --> 00:41:01,920
story is a verbal account of how of how our

616
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,480
perceptions and the facts that we encounter are prioritized. So,

617
00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:07,920
for example, when you go see a movie, the movie

618
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,840
has a hero, and what the writers do is they

619
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,599
show you how the hero prioritizes his perceptions, what he

620
00:41:14,639 --> 00:41:15,639
attends to, and how.

621
00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 1: Somebody said, this stream is all over the place, Well,

622
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,400
this conversation is all over the place. They're talking about

623
00:41:22,519 --> 00:41:29,920
hats being backwards archetypes, God's fighting comparative religion. So like

624
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,559
I'm trying, I'm trying to keep up, and I'm all

625
00:41:33,559 --> 00:41:36,719
over the This stream is like I'm always all over

626
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,480
the place. Plus this stream is this their stream is

627
00:41:39,519 --> 00:41:42,320
all over the place, so we get in all the

628
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:43,639
places today, he.

629
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 5: Asks, and you derived from that the story of his

630
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,960
life and his ethic, and the idea that we have

631
00:41:51,039 --> 00:41:56,280
a story, that we have to organize our perceptions in priority,

632
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,880
and that the description of that organization is a story.

633
00:42:00,159 --> 00:42:03,519
That's a very revolutionary idea, and I think the postmodernists

634
00:42:03,519 --> 00:42:05,599
got that right. And I think that's why we have

635
00:42:05,639 --> 00:42:08,239
a culture war going on, at least in part, is

636
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,800
because the idea that we see the world through a story,

637
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,360
or that the story is a description of the structure

638
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,559
through which we see the world. I think that's accurate

639
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:21,239
because we have to prioritize our perceptions. That's a tricky problem, and.

640
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,559
Speaker 7: I would prioritize my perceptions like this.

641
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,679
Speaker 6: The fact that I care about are the fact that

642
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:33,280
are true and have evidence going for them.

643
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: Okay, so now we're back to this. It's amazing that

644
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:42,519
the people in this sphere have never progressed beyond level

645
00:42:42,599 --> 00:42:47,519
one of their sphere and have never addressed any significant

646
00:42:47,559 --> 00:42:50,280
critique of their sphere. But I guess you can actually

647
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:56,760
make a whole career out of never addressing the critique

648
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:01,000
of your sphere. I'm pretty much it's a rapper right now,

649
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,400
I'm rhyming, should not even trying to. But what I

650
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,800
mean is, so he's gonna, actually he's actually going to

651
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,960
just say I believe in the evidence that is so

652
00:43:13,199 --> 00:43:21,159
low tier. First of all, it's relying on this enlightenment

653
00:43:21,199 --> 00:43:24,679
idea that really all we can ever believe in is

654
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,239
what we have basic proof and evidence for. What does

655
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,519
it mean to have proof and evidence for something? First

656
00:43:30,559 --> 00:43:34,280
of all? And secondly, that relies on all kinds of

657
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,639
things that are above Richard Dawkins's pay grade, particularly in

658
00:43:38,679 --> 00:43:42,360
the domain of metaphysics and epistemology. So if you don't

659
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,840
have a clear basis for what your doctrine of knowledge is,

660
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,559
then you're not in a position to say that all

661
00:43:50,559 --> 00:43:53,079
beliefs should be based on the things that we have

662
00:43:53,199 --> 00:43:56,480
basic proofs and evidences for. You see what I'm saying.

663
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,440
And I've never heard Richard Dawkins address any real critique

664
00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:06,119
of his philosophical low tier. I don't even know what

665
00:44:06,159 --> 00:44:09,559
you would call his position, like just a naive scientism, right.

666
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,920
I mean to say that I'm just going to go

667
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,920
with where the evidence leads me is kind of it's

668
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:27,039
it's it's kind of admirable actually, the ability to power

669
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:32,199
through all of these years and just stay hyper focused

670
00:44:32,599 --> 00:44:37,719
on your dumbass argument and never address any significant argument

671
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,920
or issue. That's there's actually something kind of kind of

672
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:49,119
amazing about that that he could be that indolent. Is

673
00:44:49,159 --> 00:44:53,360
that the right word I want to use here? I mean,

674
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:58,199
that's kind of that's kind of crazy. Yeah, it's it's

675
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:04,320
Neil de grasse Tyson level for sure. But to just

676
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,480
say that I believe what with evidence? I mean, there's

677
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,599
so many ways that we can critique this, which we've

678
00:45:09,639 --> 00:45:11,880
done so many times, but I mean, just take one

679
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,920
thing like the myth of the given right from sellers,

680
00:45:17,679 --> 00:45:21,039
or the underdetermination of data problem. I mean, these are

681
00:45:21,039 --> 00:45:26,639
just classic problems in epistemology that show that there really

682
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:32,760
is no position that just follows the evidences. That doesn't

683
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:38,199
even even exist if you know basic epistemology. It's just so.

684
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:43,920
But this is very successful in appealing to the masses.

685
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,920
And I think that's what we've seen throughout these debates

686
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,199
that we reviewed between the various atheists and their opponents,

687
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:58,400
is that they are very good at tapping into the

688
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:03,639
normy NPC mind who doesn't know anything and thinks, dude,

689
00:46:03,679 --> 00:46:07,159
that shit sounds smart, right, dear, He just said I

690
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:11,679
believe it. Well, I believe de faction evidences, And if

691
00:46:11,679 --> 00:46:14,559
you disagree with him, that means you don't believe in

692
00:46:14,599 --> 00:46:17,960
de faction ovidess and science. I mean literally, that's the

693
00:46:18,079 --> 00:46:22,559
level we're at, right. So he's he's putting it up

694
00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:26,920
up there like I follow facts and evidences. If you

695
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,960
disagree with me, then you don't believe in science facts

696
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,679
and evidences, which is not even true. But that's the

697
00:46:33,679 --> 00:46:38,239
way these people have been kind of masters at I

698
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,880
guess they're kind of like David Copperfields or something, you

699
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:42,719
know what I mean. Look at his stupid ass tie,

700
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,000
by the way, with it the DNA code, The funny

701
00:46:46,039 --> 00:46:52,039
thing is like the the genetic sequence itself is probably

702
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:57,519
one of the biggest attestations to design. Now. I don't

703
00:46:57,559 --> 00:47:02,000
make the design argument, but there is design. There is Telos,

704
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:08,880
right Telos and this goofball. I mean, it really is

705
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,840
true that God makes fools out of people who hate God.

706
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,679
This idiot is wearing like the most obvious thing in

707
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:21,599
nature that shows design, which is the genetic code. He's

708
00:47:21,599 --> 00:47:24,719
wearing an AMN tie and he's there to basically point

709
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:26,920
out how there's no design. This is so stupid.

710
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,119
Speaker 6: We're not that interested in symbols, I think. Don't send

711
00:47:31,159 --> 00:47:32,480
your drunken symbols.

712
00:47:32,599 --> 00:47:36,119
Speaker 5: Yes, you mentioned, I've heard you. I've heard that.

713
00:47:36,119 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 1: That's actually pretty funny. I'll have to give Richard Dawkins

714
00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:41,039
credit for one good quip.

715
00:47:41,079 --> 00:47:47,199
Speaker 3: There your junk on symbols. You've been drinking box wine

716
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:54,480
from Pago. I got you with one little gooley googly Google.

717
00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:01,760
I made you giggle, Project Peters, and it's crumbling before me.

718
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:05,039
Speaker 5: Yeah.

719
00:48:05,159 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 6: Yes, I mean, for example, I've I counted up in

720
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,400
your book We Who Wrestled with God a number of

721
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,960
references to Caine. There are three hundred and fifty six

722
00:48:19,039 --> 00:48:22,280
references to Cain in the in the book, and twenty

723
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,360
references to the descendants of Cain. You're obsessed with Kine

724
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:32,440
because Cain is symbolic of evil, all the evil in

725
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:32,920
the world.

726
00:48:33,119 --> 00:48:35,039
Speaker 7: You more or less blame Kine.

727
00:48:36,159 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: And this is actually kind of funny. He counted up

728
00:48:44,199 --> 00:48:50,880
Caine references in Pearson's book, and he said, you're obsessed

729
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:56,599
with Cain. I don't know that. Is this a comedy podcast?

730
00:48:56,639 --> 00:48:58,719
All of a sudden, it's theo Vonne gonna hop out

731
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,360
of here pretty soon? Or what's going on on? This

732
00:49:00,519 --> 00:49:05,360
is getting weird. You boy over here, I kind of

733
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,360
obsessed with Kine. You know what I'm saying, My boy

734
00:49:08,519 --> 00:49:11,519
Kine over there? You know, he over there the source

735
00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:15,199
of evil. This reminds me of we're gonna go full

736
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,639
jesse Lee Peters. The women women of the Gaisha Hell.

737
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,079
That's what called Women of the Gaisha Hell, women of

738
00:49:23,199 --> 00:49:28,280
Sausa A evil did evil and Karnate. That's actual Jesse

739
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,840
Lee Peterson quote. By the way, this is you.

740
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:34,679
Speaker 7: Don't believe Kane actually existed?

741
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,599
Speaker 5: I presume since I joined for.

742
00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: I was literally about to say Kane from te W

743
00:49:51,039 --> 00:49:54,320
What if Peterson in this book was actually referencing Kane

744
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:59,079
from WWE three hundred times in the book. That's actually funny.

745
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:07,039
Ja Me, Hey, Jamie, Hey, Jamie, could you mend me

746
00:50:07,119 --> 00:50:14,079
an espresso? That's actually really funny. I'm just about the

747
00:50:14,119 --> 00:50:18,320
crack up right here. Project Kane Ballers we be also

748
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,320
twink and Twinkie player hitters get found stinky stanky trigger

749
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,519
fat blunt. That's dank and danky, big damond rings on

750
00:50:25,639 --> 00:50:27,719
my panky panky. Let's get back to it.

751
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 5: Just with the daily work. Plus we've built a comprehensive

752
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:36,679
forwards join us.

753
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,519
Speaker 6: I mean you get the game away where you say

754
00:50:39,639 --> 00:50:42,880
in your book Cana and Abel were the first humans

755
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,920
to be born in the natural way. Now that that

756
00:50:46,119 --> 00:50:49,719
betrays you as as as were pretending you think they

757
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,880
really existed, because he wouldn't have said they were born

758
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:56,760
in a natural way unless you were muddling up facts

759
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,960
with symbols, because you don't think that that cananeable existed.

760
00:51:01,679 --> 00:51:06,039
Speaker 1: Well, what, I haven't read Peterson's book, and I doubt

761
00:51:06,119 --> 00:51:10,840
that I would agree with his take on whatever natural

762
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:16,519
way means. But to be fair, that could just mean, right,

763
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:22,480
the first people born after the fall. So I don't

764
00:51:22,519 --> 00:51:24,639
know what Dawkins is talking about here.

765
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 5: Well, I don't. What do I think about knaan Abel?

766
00:51:28,159 --> 00:51:32,199
I said, I think the pattern that they represent always

767
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,239
exists exist.

768
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 6: A pattern that they represent, the conflict between brothers, the

769
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,639
rivalry between brothers. This is a fundamental pattern, which which yes,

770
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:46,000
it's something that's there.

771
00:51:46,519 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 7: But I care about facts. I mean, did they exist

772
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:50,920
or did they not exist?

773
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 5: Well, I can imagine a situation where when the story

774
00:51:54,880 --> 00:52:00,400
was originated that it referred to two actual brothers are jokes.

775
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,039
Speaker 1: My audio, my audience is the best for freaking jokes.

776
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,400
Cain and Undertaker were the first wrestlers born in an

777
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:11,679
unnatural way. I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you.

778
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,119
I think we got some of the best comedy over here.

779
00:52:14,639 --> 00:52:17,519
I'm not joking. I'm talking about me with you guys,

780
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:22,960
like we are the best collab team. I love my audience.

781
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,400
You guys are so damn funny. I kid, you know,

782
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,639
every time I do a stream, I go back and

783
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:32,400
I read my chat's comments because they're so funny, Like

784
00:52:32,519 --> 00:52:36,360
we have freaking genius comedy writers. This this stream is

785
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,840
off the hook, dude, I'm loving it. I mean their

786
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,079
stream like what, this is wild? What are they talking about?

787
00:52:42,599 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 5: But as the story what what?

788
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 1: They probably will go talking about Project Pat and WWE

789
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,320
in the next five minutes. I mean it's going everywhere.

790
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,280
Speaker 5: It's probably across time as they mutate, as they well,

791
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,599
it's like Project Pat, you know, and it's like he's

792
00:52:58,639 --> 00:53:01,400
wearing his hat around back. That's like, fuck, man, what

793
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:05,079
does that mean? Adapt Let's say to the structure of

794
00:53:05,159 --> 00:53:09,360
human memory, they deepen, then they become broader, and so

795
00:53:09,519 --> 00:53:12,559
then they become emblematic not only of the pattern of

796
00:53:12,639 --> 00:53:15,360
conflict that might characterize the original two brothers that the

797
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:20,079
story was about, but about the conflict between brothers as such,

798
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:23,400
and then the more fundamental levels of the conflict that

799
00:53:23,559 --> 00:53:25,760
exists within human beings, which is what you see in

800
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,000
more sophisticated literature. It's like the Biblical.

801
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:34,760
Speaker 1: I do agree with this that I think those it

802
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:40,039
is definitely the case that those early Genesis stories do

803
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:47,199
form kind of archetypal patterns for how people operate throughout history.

804
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:54,519
You know, even Paul talks about Adam's fall being reproduced

805
00:53:55,159 --> 00:53:58,280
kind of in a pattern sequence in every human being.

806
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,960
This is one whereason why you know, as Orthodox, we

807
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:04,440
don't believe in the Roman Catholic view of inherited guilt,

808
00:54:04,519 --> 00:54:07,400
or I should say, the classic Roman Catholic view or

809
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:12,239
the classical Latin position of inherited guilt, because modern Rome

810
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:16,480
doesn't really believe in inherited guilt either, so at least

811
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:21,519
the traditional quote Latin idea of inherited guilt from Augustine

812
00:54:21,519 --> 00:54:25,960
all the way up through early Middle Ages in the West,

813
00:54:28,119 --> 00:54:30,559
we don't have that view. So we would say that

814
00:54:31,199 --> 00:54:34,119
our interpretation if you read myandor if on Romans five

815
00:54:35,079 --> 00:54:39,440
is that every individual kind of because they're sons of Adam,

816
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:45,199
they are born deprived of grace and divine life, and

817
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:49,199
they do have mortality and the passions, but they don't

818
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:53,599
actually become sinners until they sin, and that requires some

819
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:58,199
stage in your life where you reenact or recapitulate Adam,

820
00:54:58,639 --> 00:55:05,119
you become like Adam. So that I think makes more

821
00:55:05,199 --> 00:55:09,079
sense in terms of in other words, if we're going

822
00:55:09,159 --> 00:55:14,800
to try to interpret Peterson as charitably as we can here,

823
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:19,840
I would agree that the Orthodox idea of recapitulating Adam

824
00:55:20,519 --> 00:55:24,079
is an example of that archetypal repetition that we see

825
00:55:24,159 --> 00:55:28,400
in every individual, but also the other stories in Genesis.

826
00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:34,320
Thank you Canaan able a great example, right, that does

827
00:55:34,519 --> 00:55:38,400
kind of form a pattern for fundamental conflicts that will

828
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:44,039
happen between brothers or humans in general, and then that

829
00:55:44,159 --> 00:55:46,000
kind of becomes that you could see like a pattern

830
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:52,360
for all warfare, all future human division and collapse. You

831
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:59,000
could definitely see a pattern in that. So I think

832
00:55:59,079 --> 00:56:03,039
there's probably there's probably is a good inroad here, and

833
00:56:03,079 --> 00:56:04,960
we've seen in a lot of these debates that Peterson

834
00:56:05,039 --> 00:56:07,519
does with the atheist all the way back to the

835
00:56:07,559 --> 00:56:10,480
Matt Dillon Hunty debate. If you guys remember, there probably

836
00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:16,519
is a good inroad to reaching these people through archetypes.

837
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,400
And if you remember in the Dilla Hunty debate, that's

838
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:23,760
where Jordan came really close to TAG. I mean, he

839
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:28,719
basically kind of does this presubsitional critique. He then presents

840
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:34,880
these kind of preconditioned categories that are necessary for knowledge,

841
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:39,000
for predication, and then he kind of stops there without

842
00:56:39,159 --> 00:56:45,039
doing the full dismantling of Dila Hunt's Dylon Monkey's worldview.

843
00:56:45,679 --> 00:56:50,159
So I mean he basically presents Tag there in a

844
00:56:51,159 --> 00:56:53,960
very soft way. I guess we could say. So what

845
00:56:54,079 --> 00:56:58,079
he's doing here is similar in that you'll notice he's

846
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:04,440
playing on the thing that Dawkins sees his memes and

847
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:09,679
then trying to kind of bridge to archetypes from there,

848
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:14,199
which could lead out of materialism. I think that's the

849
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:18,280
goal of what Peterson's doing here. I think that probably

850
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,440
for a lot of these atheist types, that does seem

851
00:57:21,519 --> 00:57:23,840
to be a consistent pattern of how they get out

852
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,480
of it. I think most one of the good things

853
00:57:27,519 --> 00:57:29,960
that Peterson has done over the years, and many of

854
00:57:30,039 --> 00:57:32,320
you will agree in the audience in the chat over

855
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:37,039
here on Twitter, many have admitted and seen this as

856
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:42,440
the road out of atheistic, nihilistic materialism or scientism is

857
00:57:42,559 --> 00:57:47,960
precisely this doorway of understanding archetypes and patterns. Of course,

858
00:57:48,239 --> 00:57:51,559
my critique would be that that's not good enough. I mean,

859
00:57:51,599 --> 00:57:54,400
that's a great doorway, it's a great start, but you

860
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:58,719
got to keep going. And I think I'm assuming Dawkins

861
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:03,079
is going to raise the natural question, which would be Okay, well, okay,

862
00:58:03,079 --> 00:58:06,239
you got all these archetypes and patterns, but what about

863
00:58:06,239 --> 00:58:09,199
the original Canaanabel? What about amine? Are they not real?

864
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 5: Ounce speak a fact in actual manner upon occasion. But

865
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:19,039
the biblical accounts also speak poetically and metaphorically and allegorically,

866
00:58:19,119 --> 00:58:22,239
and people who are sophisticated in biblical analysis have known

867
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:26,800
this for centuries. The biblical literists generally suffer from the

868
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:28,960
problem that they don't even know what it means to

869
00:58:29,039 --> 00:58:32,880
be literalists. There's lots of unsophisticated ways of approaching get text.

870
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:34,719
Speaker 8: Okay, let's say what Professor Dolkins thinks about that.

871
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,159
Speaker 7: Well, I I suppose I'm a literalist.

872
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,719
Speaker 6: I mean, and you give the gamer when when you say,

873
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:42,440
Cana and Abel were the first time was to be

874
00:58:42,519 --> 00:58:43,559
born in a natural way.

875
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 5: Well, I was speaking allegorically there within the confines of

876
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:48,760
the text. I mean what I meant by that was

877
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:52,239
that the way the story lays itself out is that

878
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,239
Datam and Eve are created by God, and so they're

879
00:58:55,719 --> 00:58:59,280
they're they're not they're not they don't they're not emblematic

880
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,719
of the patterns of human beings that exist in fallen history.

881
00:59:03,039 --> 00:59:06,559
Within the confines of the text. The first two people who.

882
00:59:06,519 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 1: Are Well, that's what I thought he meant. So that's

883
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:12,840
actually I'm actually surprised that he said that, But you know,

884
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,639
that's actually correct. Now, this is going to be the

885
00:59:16,679 --> 00:59:18,679
problem though, and you guys have probably already spotted this,

886
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:26,519
because it's not a question of literalism versus allegorical interpretation.

887
00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:32,039
Sometimes that might be the issue because for example, let's say,

888
00:59:32,559 --> 00:59:35,679
you know, you do have evangelical fundamentalists who make this mistake.

889
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:43,719
Let's say you're reading the Psalms and you know God

890
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:47,280
is likened to a rock or something. You know, the

891
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:52,920
Lord is a strong foundation, et cetera. Those are you know, metaphors, right,

892
00:59:53,079 --> 00:59:59,599
So obviously God is not a actual rock, right, But

893
00:59:59,679 --> 01:00:02,480
I mean, this is not anything really to do with

894
01:00:02,639 --> 01:00:09,599
quote literalism or fundamentalism. This is just hermeneutics. This is

895
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:14,400
just exegesis of a passage. So there's multiple things that

896
01:00:14,559 --> 01:00:18,920
go on here that people conflate and confuse. I want

897
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,719
to mention that really quickly. So a lot of people

898
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,280
think that a solution to a lot of the Old

899
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:26,880
Testament texts is to just simply say that they're all

900
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:31,000
allegorical and there's a problem with this position. And pointing

901
01:00:31,039 --> 01:00:32,920
out that there's a problem with this position has nothing

902
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:37,960
to do with adopting some Seven day Adventist John Hagy ridiculous,

903
01:00:38,599 --> 01:00:42,960
you know, in times evangelical hermeneutic. Okay, it's a different topic.

904
01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:47,679
It's a question of the traditional approach of the church.

905
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,679
And by the way, to make this fair for Peterson,

906
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:56,360
also to Jews. Jews also had this fourfold structure. It's

907
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,400
called the quadriga. And I'm surprised that this never comes

908
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:05,519
up in these dicussions. Maybe they think it's too hetty.

909
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:09,639
I don't know, but there was never really a huge

910
01:01:09,719 --> 01:01:16,199
issue as theological parlance developed. And I don't mean that

911
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:19,679
in the Roman Catholic development sense. Of dogma, but in

912
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,239
the sense of, like the church explicating its beliefs in

913
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,119
a more systematic way. That's different than the idea of

914
01:01:26,119 --> 01:01:29,079
the dogmas developing and evolving. That's not what I mean.

915
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:39,280
Maximus talks about this the early Church, I mean by

916
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:43,960
about the sixth seventh, eighth century. I don't want to

917
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:49,000
go there. Who is Bishop Michael Rant? Is there not

918
01:01:50,719 --> 01:01:53,800
a basic like? Actually, out of all these, I would

919
01:01:53,800 --> 01:02:02,280
probably go to the wick Wikipedia of all these, so

920
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:06,199
there's not even an entry for that. So I guess

921
01:02:06,239 --> 01:02:09,880
people just maybe fourfold let's trow this. Yeah, here we go.

922
01:02:10,079 --> 01:02:15,039
It's called the quadriga. So you'll notice, even if Wikipedia

923
01:02:15,159 --> 01:02:18,960
can figure this out, even Judaism had the notion of

924
01:02:19,239 --> 01:02:25,880
multiple senses of the text. Okay, this passes also into Christianity,

925
01:02:28,079 --> 01:02:31,239
as you'll note they've mentioned Boetheists. But I would say

926
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:35,400
same maximism. Even better example of the quadriga and the

927
01:02:35,519 --> 01:02:39,239
idea here is that you have four layers. Now, it

928
01:02:39,519 --> 01:02:42,960
doesn't necessarily mean every single text has all four layers.

929
01:02:43,239 --> 01:02:46,760
There might be passages that are really just meant to

930
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:50,960
be literal recordings of events. So, for example, we have

931
01:02:51,079 --> 01:02:57,280
a genealogy, there could be some secret deeper message in

932
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:00,760
a genealogy. But typically I think we would say genealogy

933
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,719
is just layer one. It's just a literal recording of

934
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:06,360
you know, Jews are trying to say that we have

935
01:03:06,559 --> 01:03:10,320
kept this record to ensure that so and so is

936
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:11,880
the son of so and so so when you read

937
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:15,239
Deuteronomy or whatever, and you see genealogies, when you read

938
01:03:15,239 --> 01:03:21,639
the Gospels, that's intended to be literal historical events typological.

939
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:25,280
This connects the Old Testament to the New Testament. Everybody,

940
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,320
Hopefully you guys know what typology is. That should be

941
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:30,760
pretty obvious. We don't have to go too deep on that.

942
01:03:32,039 --> 01:03:34,199
And then there's what's called the tropological or the moral,

943
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:36,360
and sometimes this is the moral of the story. I

944
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:40,079
think a lot of times Peterson is focusing on the tropological.

945
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:45,920
He's usually trying to find that third layer. It would

946
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:49,280
be I think if he became Orthodox, he would begin

947
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:53,079
to see number two, wouldn't he. And then sometimes there's

948
01:03:53,079 --> 01:03:57,880
an anagogical or an eschatological sense of the text. And

949
01:03:58,039 --> 01:04:05,280
so for example, let's take Exodus from Egypt. The literal

950
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:09,159
interpretation is the actual story of the Jews exiting, making

951
01:04:09,199 --> 01:04:13,960
an exodus of Egypt. Typologically, though, we have in the

952
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,679
New Testament the mentioning of out of Egypt I've called

953
01:04:16,719 --> 01:04:20,760
my Son. The New Testament cites this traditional prophecy, which

954
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:22,599
is not written in the Old Testament's just the tradition.

955
01:04:22,719 --> 01:04:25,519
Out of Egypt I've called my son, and that's referred

956
01:04:25,599 --> 01:04:28,920
to referring to the movement of the Holy Family out

957
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,000
of Egypt. So Jesus fulfills out of Egypt, I've called

958
01:04:32,039 --> 01:04:35,480
my son, and so that's layer two, Layer three, out

959
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:38,199
of Egypt I've called my son, or exodus would be

960
01:04:38,719 --> 01:04:43,079
you as an individual believer, when you convert, you are exodusing,

961
01:04:44,159 --> 01:04:48,760
exiting the world of Egypt and sin. Right, the bondage

962
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:52,880
to Pharaoh. The bond is to sin, death, the vices.

963
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:56,880
Baptism then is linked to this. And you'll notice, oh,

964
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,599
wait a minute, the New Testament actually gives this four

965
01:04:59,639 --> 01:05:02,440
full time sense, doesn't it absolutely, because it says that

966
01:05:02,679 --> 01:05:07,679
baptism is the exodus. It is the washing of the

967
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:11,960
water that corresponds to the drowning of Pharaoh and his soldiers.

968
01:05:12,719 --> 01:05:18,280
The typology, right, that's the tropological sense and agogical sense,

969
01:05:18,639 --> 01:05:21,239
the future eschological reality. Oh well, what would that be, Well,

970
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:24,880
the promised land is Heaven, the esketon, So exiting Egypt

971
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:29,000
coming to the promised Land is a type or anagogically

972
01:05:29,039 --> 01:05:33,159
speaking of the es catological in times reality of coming

973
01:05:33,239 --> 01:05:37,280
to the real promised land, the escton, the resurrected state.

974
01:05:38,519 --> 01:05:42,079
So you see in this example there's four layers. This

975
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:47,239
is not even disputed. It's very well known. It's based

976
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,639
in the Bible and the Rabbinic tradition as well. Because

977
01:05:50,639 --> 01:05:53,880
the Rabbinic tradition is basing there what's called pardes p

978
01:05:54,119 --> 01:05:58,039
rdes their fourfold sense on this, because it's a biblical

979
01:05:58,079 --> 01:06:02,639
principles from within the tradition of the Bible itself. The

980
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:07,920
Church fathers then sort of explicate and systematize this as

981
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:12,159
a general rule or principle. So you see that this

982
01:06:12,519 --> 01:06:15,840
really has nothing to do with a separate question which

983
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:20,960
is raised by textual higher critics, which is that there

984
01:06:21,079 --> 01:06:26,159
is no literal interpretation, There is no level one because

985
01:06:26,199 --> 01:06:28,920
the Bible is a bunch of made up stories. So

986
01:06:29,079 --> 01:06:33,480
you see that this separate issue of unbelief is not

987
01:06:33,639 --> 01:06:38,679
an issue of hermeneutics, although it could affect one's hermeneuticts

988
01:06:38,719 --> 01:06:42,119
because For example, if you're an unbelieving higher critic, you

989
01:06:42,199 --> 01:06:46,159
don't believe in well, layer one or layer two, you

990
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:50,159
might believe in three or four. Right, the Jews concocted

991
01:06:50,159 --> 01:06:53,519
and the Christians concocted stories to give moral tales, so

992
01:06:53,639 --> 01:06:56,039
you could believe three. You're not going to believe in

993
01:06:56,159 --> 01:07:00,679
typology unless you think, well, the Christians made up stories

994
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:05,079
to make Jesus fit into types. Right, So if you're

995
01:07:05,079 --> 01:07:07,840
a liberal higher critic, you might believe in two as

996
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:11,079
a kind of maiden switch scheme that the Christians came

997
01:07:11,159 --> 01:07:14,000
up with. If you're a liberal higher critic, you're not

998
01:07:14,079 --> 01:07:15,840
going to believe in one because you don't believe in

999
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:20,599
any actual biblical history. It's all made up pretty much, right.

1000
01:07:22,119 --> 01:07:24,440
And then you might say that four exists, but that

1001
01:07:24,519 --> 01:07:29,159
the Christians again just made up allegories to give people

1002
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:31,960
the idea of what the Esketon would be like and

1003
01:07:32,039 --> 01:07:34,639
to hope in the Eskaton. So do you see how

1004
01:07:35,039 --> 01:07:37,079
this constantly get And I've been bitching about this for

1005
01:07:37,239 --> 01:07:40,639
like ten years. I made a video critiquing Father Stephen

1006
01:07:40,679 --> 01:07:43,480
Freeman like ten years ago, and the entire video was this,

1007
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:48,400
because he thought that the Orthodox way to answer the

1008
01:07:48,599 --> 01:07:52,639
problems of the Old Testament was to say that it's

1009
01:07:52,679 --> 01:07:55,239
all a historical and allegorical and it's all not real.

1010
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:59,760
But people don't understand the Pandora's box that you get with,

1011
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,880
which is, well, wait a minute, how many times is

1012
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,480
Jesus in the New Testament talk about these topics.

1013
01:08:07,719 --> 01:08:08,039
Speaker 3: A lot?

1014
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So wait a minute. If Jesus talks about these

1015
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:13,199
topics all the time, and if he speaks about him

1016
01:08:13,199 --> 01:08:15,079
and Eve as real people, Jonah as a real person

1017
01:08:15,079 --> 01:08:17,680
who underwent the real events that Jonah underwent, if he

1018
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,760
talks about David and all these people, then now we

1019
01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:23,840
have another problem because the Jesus of the Gospels is

1020
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:27,119
now an idiot fundamentalist, and every time you bring this

1021
01:08:27,239 --> 01:08:29,800
up with these people, they will just shut you out

1022
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,279
and ignore you and call you names because they don't

1023
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:35,000
want to they don't want to be consistent with their position.

1024
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:42,479
So Peterson is I think wanting an inroad then, But

1025
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:44,760
I think this is where there's going to be a mistake,

1026
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:47,199
a problem, because he's going to bring up this issue

1027
01:08:47,359 --> 01:08:54,079
of the layer three moral or the tropological, and Dawkins

1028
01:08:54,119 --> 01:08:57,399
wants to talk about layer one, and the problem is

1029
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:07,840
that if we read Galatians four. What does Paul do

1030
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:12,880
in Galatians For well, we have the apostolic authoritative interpretation

1031
01:09:14,399 --> 01:09:22,560
of allegory. Paul does his famous allegory of Hagar and Sarah,

1032
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:27,760
representing two different women, the Church and flesh Israel. One

1033
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:30,399
of them is free, one of them is the heavenly Jerusalem.

1034
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:33,920
The other one is earthly and is enslaved to the

1035
01:09:34,079 --> 01:09:39,479
earthly things. These things are an allegory. They represent two covenants,

1036
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:43,800
one from Mount Sinai, which engenders bondage, which is Hagar.

1037
01:09:44,319 --> 01:09:49,520
The other is from is the Jerusalem which is above,

1038
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:51,479
which is free, and that is Sarah, the mother of

1039
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:55,079
all living. So remember, Sarah is given a new name

1040
01:09:55,399 --> 01:10:00,039
because she's an image of the Church and soul. He

1041
01:10:00,079 --> 01:10:07,359
says that the two sons of Abraham are symbolic. Now,

1042
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:12,520
how does Paul's allegory work. Does Paul say anything about Well,

1043
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:16,720
of course there was no Haygard Sarah. Do you understand

1044
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:20,520
the allegory doesn't work. If there weren't Haygard Sarah, the

1045
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:23,840
whole thing collapse. It makes no sense. So Paul's allegory

1046
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:27,840
presupposes the first sense, the literal, and if you go

1047
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:30,640
back and read the Church Fathers. If you read, for example,

1048
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:34,399
Saint Cyril Alexandria, he says that you cannot sacrifice the

1049
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:38,359
literal for the sake of the moral, or the typological

1050
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:45,359
or the allegorical. Even a Quinnas, who I don't care

1051
01:10:45,399 --> 01:10:50,960
anything for, says that the two, three, and four levels

1052
01:10:51,319 --> 01:10:56,039
are grounded in the first. So the irony is that

1053
01:10:56,640 --> 01:11:03,600
this whole process of algorical and typological interpretation comes to

1054
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,119
full fruition and systematization in the East and the West,

1055
01:11:07,119 --> 01:11:11,159
in the Middle Ages. Nobody questions it until modern higher criticism,

1056
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,520
and it has nothing to do with the higher critical

1057
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:21,199
doubts of texts at all. It's a hermeneutical question. And

1058
01:11:21,319 --> 01:11:24,359
yet now people still conflate all of these things together.

1059
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:30,600
They conflate this with fundamentalism versus allegorical interpretation, which is so.

1060
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:36,119
Speaker 5: Stupid anyone who aren't creations of the divine are canaanable,

1061
01:11:36,159 --> 01:11:39,119
and so for me, they're emblematic of the patterns of

1062
01:11:39,279 --> 01:11:43,800
conflict that rip people apart in the world of history,

1063
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:45,680
in the world of normal history.

1064
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:48,239
Speaker 8: Professor Dowkins, I know you take particular umbrage with that

1065
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:54,199
statement that cana enable with the first normally born human beings.

1066
01:11:54,239 --> 01:11:57,600
But I think of unsend doctor Peterson, Correctly, there are

1067
01:11:57,600 --> 01:11:59,399
things that can be sort of true within a story.

1068
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:04,079
Speaker 1: It's true that, well, they're not normally born. Uh, they're

1069
01:12:04,239 --> 01:12:06,960
the first born after the fall, and the fall is

1070
01:12:07,079 --> 01:12:11,560
not normal. The fall introduces the unnatural state, which is,

1071
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:13,680
by the way, what all the Tomas and natural theology

1072
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:17,199
people call the natural state. So no, actually, the fall

1073
01:12:17,399 --> 01:12:21,039
makes things unnatural. Now I'm not saying nature itself is unnatural.

1074
01:12:21,079 --> 01:12:23,880
I'm saying that the state, the mode of nature after

1075
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:26,720
the fall is not what was intended to be, and

1076
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:29,960
that's why death is the enemy. Death is unnatural in

1077
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:31,000
the Orthodox few.

1078
01:12:32,359 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 8: Shelock Holmes lives the two two one B Baker Street,

1079
01:12:35,079 --> 01:12:37,680
And as far as I understand, that's maybe what you

1080
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:38,359
mean by.

1081
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 7: That.

1082
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:42,560
Speaker 8: The truth in the matter of canaanable being the first

1083
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:45,359
naturally born to it's internal to well, in the context of.

1084
01:12:45,359 --> 01:12:48,399
Speaker 5: This story, they're the first two spirits or patterns you

1085
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:51,800
could think of, patterns of perception and action, Yes, that

1086
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,960
characterize human existence in the fallen world. Right, So they're

1087
01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:01,119
emblematic of what happens in history outside of whatever is

1088
01:13:01,239 --> 01:13:02,960
meant by the pre existent paradise.

1089
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 8: At the same time, you must know, I know this

1090
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:07,960
comes up with the time when somebody says, but it

1091
01:13:08,119 --> 01:13:10,159
canaan able really exists, and I know that you want

1092
01:13:10,239 --> 01:13:13,079
to say that the story which.

1093
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:16,680
Speaker 5: Is a silly question. I think it's like asking whether

1094
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,600
Raskolnikov existed in crime.

1095
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:26,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not a silly question because the compilers

1096
01:13:26,159 --> 01:13:29,800
of the Bible and Jesus himself treated those people as

1097
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:34,000
if they existed. Jesus speaks of Cain as actually existing,

1098
01:13:34,239 --> 01:13:39,840
right because he talks about Cain getting murdered, and so, No,

1099
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:42,199
it is not a silly question. In fact, the entire

1100
01:13:42,279 --> 01:13:47,479
history of exegesis assumes that for the typology to be true,

1101
01:13:48,039 --> 01:13:52,960
than he had to have literally existed. But this is

1102
01:13:53,039 --> 01:13:56,479
I think the weakest point for doctor Peterson, because he

1103
01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:01,279
always wants to shy away from dealing with the historicity

1104
01:14:01,359 --> 01:14:03,199
of things like genesis for the Old Testament.

1105
01:14:04,279 --> 01:14:08,439
Speaker 5: Like, it's not a trivial question because you can answer yes,

1106
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:10,479
and you can answer no. You can say, well, there

1107
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:15,039
was no such specific person as Raskolnikov, but you it's

1108
01:14:15,239 --> 01:14:19,840
it's not a helpful question because the reason that Dostyevsky's.

1109
01:14:19,039 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 1: By the way, this is totally a false analogy because

1110
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:28,319
the premise for things like the Birth of Christ are

1111
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:32,000
based on the genealogies of the Old Testament and particularly

1112
01:14:32,079 --> 01:14:34,760
going all the way back to Adam, and that would

1113
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:36,840
mean that, yeah, Kane, as to Cain and Able have

1114
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:40,520
to be real people because Jesus is a descendant of

1115
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:45,560
real people from Adam on. So yeah, it matters, especially

1116
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:48,000
if Christianity's tribune to course. Again, we know that doctor

1117
01:14:48,039 --> 01:14:53,359
Peterson is not explicitly a Christian. So the other thing, though,

1118
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:58,119
is that it is not correct to compare Raskolnikov, who

1119
01:14:58,239 --> 01:15:01,479
is a completely fictional character are in Crime and Punishment,

1120
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:06,279
to the status of canaan Abel, who are again according

1121
01:15:06,279 --> 01:15:11,000
to the entirety of biblical revelation positive to be real people.

1122
01:15:11,119 --> 01:15:12,279
So that's a false analogy.

1123
01:15:14,079 --> 01:15:18,079
Speaker 5: The Punishment is a masterpiece is because Raskolnikov was everywhere

1124
01:15:18,159 --> 01:15:22,319
in Russia when Darcyevsky wrote Crime and Punishment, and so

1125
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,399
Raskolnikov is hyper real, not not real.

1126
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:27,920
Speaker 8: To be clear, is that how you feel about Cana

1127
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:30,960
and Abel that that that is to say, an identified

1128
01:15:31,199 --> 01:15:36,359
hyper real Homo sapiens called Cain's in a sense.

1129
01:15:36,199 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 5: It's irrelevant to me because.

1130
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:44,199
Speaker 1: Now he says hyper real, which I think he means

1131
01:15:44,359 --> 01:15:52,159
that like the fact that it's an archetypal presence that

1132
01:15:53,399 --> 01:15:57,800
brothers have conflict and murder each other, that's more real

1133
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:00,600
than there being like one dude in his history named

1134
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:06,239
Caine and one dude in history named Abel. But I mean,

1135
01:16:06,399 --> 01:16:08,159
I don't know what that means to say that something

1136
01:16:08,279 --> 01:16:11,640
is hyper real. If there's you know, more instances of

1137
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:15,159
that thing in some archetypal sense, that doesn't make it

1138
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:20,039
more real than you know, Canaan Abel in history. I mean,

1139
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:23,880
I get the idea that he's going for, I guess

1140
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:28,960
with hyper real, But no, why don't we just go

1141
01:16:29,039 --> 01:16:31,680
ahead and say Canaan and Abel were real? You know

1142
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:35,159
what I mean? It seems like an easier just bite

1143
01:16:35,199 --> 01:16:36,000
the bullet.

1144
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:39,840
Speaker 5: Even if they were real, like we don't know anything

1145
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:40,520
about them as.

1146
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 1: Well, well, how does he know we don't know anything

1147
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:50,640
about them? So another thing I notice here is a

1148
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:56,079
tendency in a lot of these circles to presume a

1149
01:16:56,159 --> 01:17:02,560
lot of Protestant exegesis and and ideas. And I noticed

1150
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:05,960
this in the not so much PAGEO. But because I

1151
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:08,880
think Pago is correct. He's he's you know, orthodox, he's

1152
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:11,079
on our side. But when it comes to say, it

1153
01:17:11,159 --> 01:17:15,079
comes to say doctor James Lindsay arguing with Peterson and

1154
01:17:15,319 --> 01:17:19,720
critiquing Peterson, and Lindsay critiquing Pagoe too, and then say

1155
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:22,800
Peterson's presentation, I don't know that. I don't know if

1156
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:27,199
Peterson's ever directly addressed Lindsay, but the things that Peterson

1157
01:17:27,279 --> 01:17:32,760
says that might address doctor Lindsay, like between those two

1158
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:40,479
the positions pretty much pivot from a kind of basic Protestantism. Right.

1159
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:43,399
So for example, I saw Lindsay saying something the other

1160
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:48,760
day about when he was talking about Saint Michael the

1161
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:53,479
archangel or something, and oh, angels an intercession, and like

1162
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:57,560
his whole argument against this, which he's not even a believer,

1163
01:17:58,359 --> 01:18:01,880
was all from like some kind of product style argument,

1164
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:05,119
And I'm like, well, first of all, you're not a believer,

1165
01:18:06,119 --> 01:18:10,079
but your arguments are Protestant based here anyway. So it's like,

1166
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:13,000
in other words, they're arguing stuff like where does the

1167
01:18:13,079 --> 01:18:15,880
Bible tell you that you can have intercessors? This kind

1168
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:18,920
of stuff, right, And here Peterson's saying stuff like we

1169
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:23,359
don't know anything about canaan Abel. Well, what do you mean.

1170
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:27,960
There's tradition too, So tradition is another key element in

1171
01:18:28,079 --> 01:18:34,039
this which many people in this debate miss because so

1172
01:18:34,359 --> 01:18:39,640
often this debate is framed from some goofy Protestant style position.

1173
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:46,119
And you'll notice even the atheists quite often when they

1174
01:18:46,319 --> 01:18:50,319
try to explain, oh, well you believe this right as

1175
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:53,920
an atheist, you Christians believe this, They're almost always describing

1176
01:18:54,039 --> 01:18:55,720
some faulty Protestant position.

1177
01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:58,479
Speaker 3: But of course you believe that God has to kill

1178
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:02,199
himself to say that, which is bustless, you know something

1179
01:19:02,279 --> 01:19:02,439
like this.

1180
01:19:02,840 --> 01:19:04,479
Speaker 5: Like I said, it could have been the case that

1181
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:09,199
when the story originated, way back when it originated, that

1182
01:19:09,319 --> 01:19:12,319
the first people that were described by the first person

1183
01:19:12,399 --> 01:19:16,239
who generated the seeds of the Canaanaval story were referring

1184
01:19:16,319 --> 01:19:20,359
to actual people. But it doesn't matter, because the text

1185
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:23,760
is being compressed and modified over a vast span of time,

1186
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:26,720
and it's created all sorts of meanings that certainly weren't

1187
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:33,680
part and parcel of whatever the original was. Now, what

1188
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:34,000
is that?

1189
01:19:34,279 --> 01:19:38,079
Speaker 1: Did you hear that accretions, all these accretions that weren't

1190
01:19:38,079 --> 01:19:41,239
part of the original story. This sounds like Gavin Ortland

1191
01:19:41,279 --> 01:19:44,640
and all the Protestant nonsense of there's all these accretions.

1192
01:19:45,239 --> 01:19:48,199
Say again, it's like, can we never get away from

1193
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:54,600
Protestant nonsense in this whole discussion? I mean even even

1194
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:59,920
the atheist debates, Let's say an atheist debates. I don't

1195
01:20:00,359 --> 01:20:08,119
an apologist for Christianity. It's like it's Protestant garbage all

1196
01:20:08,159 --> 01:20:13,439
the time, like William Lane Craigg versus mohammedd jab And

1197
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:16,359
it's like, can we never get away from Protestant crap everywhere?

1198
01:20:18,159 --> 01:20:21,880
The accretions? What are the accretions? By the way, there's

1199
01:20:21,960 --> 01:20:25,000
there's not much in the Canaanables story anyway other than

1200
01:20:25,119 --> 01:20:30,600
like a little bit of you know, blood sacrifice, you know,

1201
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:33,800
hatred in the heart versus the brother. Like what else

1202
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:36,920
is there in this? It's not like there's tons of

1203
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:39,119
accretions around canaan Apel.

1204
01:20:39,319 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 6: Within the comprise of the story. And dost ask him

1205
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,960
was a great writer. What makes you think the writers

1206
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:46,239
of Genesis are a great writer?

1207
01:20:46,359 --> 01:20:48,119
Speaker 7: I mean, who were they? We don't we know nothing

1208
01:20:48,159 --> 01:20:48,600
about them?

1209
01:20:49,279 --> 01:20:53,199
Speaker 1: Well I think that, well, oh, he's we know nothing

1210
01:20:53,239 --> 01:20:56,199
about them. First of all, how does Richard Dawkins know

1211
01:20:56,319 --> 01:21:00,760
that there's multiple authors of Genesis because akad told him so.

1212
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:04,840
But wait a minute, Academia has shifted away from all

1213
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:08,399
of these different documentary hypotheses which come and go like fads.

1214
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:14,239
So has the recent scholarship told you what the recent

1215
01:21:14,319 --> 01:21:17,159
fad is? How do you know that it's multiple? How

1216
01:21:17,199 --> 01:21:21,479
do you know it wasn't Moses because academia says it wasn't. Well,

1217
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:25,079
so academia changed their position every decade or two.

1218
01:21:25,279 --> 01:21:27,800
Speaker 5: I think they were great writers because I think I

1219
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:32,079
understand the patterning of the stories and what it points to.

1220
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:37,640
I think the idea, for example, that canaan Abel are

1221
01:21:38,119 --> 01:21:42,520
emblematic of to oppose patterns of adaptation to the world,

1222
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:47,279
is brilliant. It's it's almost brilliant, beyond imagining, especially because

1223
01:21:47,319 --> 01:21:51,920
the story is so insanely compressed, and it's certainly evident

1224
01:21:52,039 --> 01:21:54,840
to me as a clinician that the patterns that are

1225
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:57,359
portrayed in the story of canaan Abel play themselves out

1226
01:21:57,399 --> 01:21:59,119
in the real world continually.

1227
01:21:59,159 --> 01:22:03,680
Speaker 6: I'm terribly, terribly the ansor of that story in Genesis

1228
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:04,920
was a literary genius.

1229
01:22:09,279 --> 01:22:12,279
Speaker 5: I think that there's a spirit of literary genius at

1230
01:22:12,359 --> 01:22:13,680
work well.

1231
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:18,159
Speaker 1: By the way, not a stupid question. Like, first of all,

1232
01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:22,279
it's odd that Dawkins would even call this into question.

1233
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:26,239
I mean, why would this story resonate for thousands of

1234
01:22:26,359 --> 01:22:29,560
years throughout the entire world if it didn't have some

1235
01:22:30,479 --> 01:22:38,319
literary and practical application that does prove Peterson's point. So

1236
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:40,800
this is kind of stupid, right, I mean on what basis?

1237
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:45,720
By the way, does Richard Dawkins know also, whether or

1238
01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:51,359
not something counts as genius literature? Remember in these goofballs perspective,

1239
01:22:51,399 --> 01:22:53,079
if you don't have a degree in something, you can't

1240
01:22:53,119 --> 01:22:55,760
actually speak on it. Oh, when did Richard Dawkins get

1241
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:58,840
a literary degree? By the way, is he qualified? Does

1242
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:01,640
he have the expertise? Does he have the facts and

1243
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:05,520
the evidences to prove through pure review whether or not

1244
01:23:06,199 --> 01:23:10,479
Genesis is actually good literature? You see how inconsistent and

1245
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:11,600
arbitrary these people are.

1246
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:16,640
Speaker 5: Ross millennia crafting that story so that it has almost

1247
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:20,760
an infinite depth. How that relates to the original author

1248
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:23,520
or sequential authors, I don't know, because it's lost in

1249
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:26,520
the seeds of time. It's lost in that, it's lost

1250
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:27,199
in history.

1251
01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:31,479
Speaker 6: So the story evolved saying the story like I mean, yes, well,

1252
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:33,359
that's interesting if it evolved.

1253
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 5: To match the contours of the human memory. That's exactly

1254
01:23:37,079 --> 01:23:39,960
it is that these stories, that's part of their archetypal nature. Like,

1255
01:23:40,079 --> 01:23:43,520
so they have an emotional and motivational expression. But as

1256
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:47,840
they propagate across time, they also evolve, so they're maximally memorable,

1257
01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:51,199
and they're maximumly memorable for a biological reason.

1258
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:54,199
Speaker 6: Well, that's very interesting if they've ready to get evolved

1259
01:23:54,279 --> 01:23:58,079
over time, if you could actually trace successive manuscripts. You

1260
01:23:58,159 --> 01:24:01,439
can't do that, I mean, that does that's presumably a

1261
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:04,680
couple of Hebrew manuscripts and the Greek one.

1262
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:09,079
Speaker 1: And oh, there's a couple of Hebrews manuscripts and a

1263
01:24:09,119 --> 01:24:12,000
Greek one. By the way, he has no knowledge of

1264
01:24:12,079 --> 01:24:14,680
this time. Does he have a degree in textual studies

1265
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:19,079
in ancient textual history? So what the hell's he talking about?

1266
01:24:20,079 --> 01:24:23,760
You can't trace it. There's a Hebrew one and perhaps

1267
01:24:24,159 --> 01:24:27,119
a Greek one, and what like, what does he know

1268
01:24:27,199 --> 01:24:31,079
about ancient manuscripts? Nothing? He thinks there's one or two

1269
01:24:31,119 --> 01:24:35,319
Hebrew ones and a Greek one, when as if the

1270
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:39,399
textual traditions are manuscripts, which is stupid to begin with,

1271
01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:42,880
because you could have thousands of textual you could have

1272
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:46,039
thousands of manuscripts, and right, that's not the same thing

1273
01:24:46,199 --> 01:24:47,279
as a textual tradition.

1274
01:24:47,399 --> 01:24:49,720
Speaker 5: Per Se would say, you can see that in the

1275
01:24:50,239 --> 01:24:53,119
compilation of the Biblical texts, because one of the things

1276
01:24:53,199 --> 01:24:57,159
that you see evolved. You know, you criticized the Biblical

1277
01:24:57,199 --> 01:24:59,199
texts at one point. Correct me if I've got this wrong,

1278
01:24:59,199 --> 01:25:01,199
because I don't want to get this wrong. You said

1279
01:25:01,239 --> 01:25:04,479
that there isn't anything in the Biblical text that constitutes

1280
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:08,439
let's say, significant original discovery, which is something that you'd

1281
01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:12,279
expect if it was a divine providence, let's say divine

1282
01:25:12,319 --> 01:25:15,520
providence and so, and I think, you know, I was

1283
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:17,720
thinking about that objection, and I think that one of

1284
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:22,800
the discoveries that the text lays bear in an insanely

1285
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:27,279
brilliant manner is that the foundation of the community is sacrifice.

1286
01:25:27,399 --> 01:25:30,640
That that's an appropriate conceptualization. And you can see the

1287
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:35,520
concept of sacrifice evolve across the Biblical texts as their

1288
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:39,760
sequenced chronologically in the what in the overall story that

1289
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:42,199
makes up the Biblical the Biblical text.

1290
01:25:42,319 --> 01:25:45,000
Speaker 1: I agree with this. I think that this is fundamental

1291
01:25:45,239 --> 01:25:52,000
to Biblical religion. As the notion of sacrifice. Society itself

1292
01:25:52,600 --> 01:25:57,960
is grounded in sacrifice. In fact, even globalists believe it

1293
01:25:58,039 --> 01:26:02,600
or not. Remember when we read jacque Attlee's book, I

1294
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:05,680
was like, he sounds like Jordan Peterson here. Now that

1295
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:10,600
was early jacque Attalie back in the nineties, talking about

1296
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:16,039
how the global system would need to preserve some of

1297
01:26:16,079 --> 01:26:19,359
the elements of the old world when they bring in

1298
01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:21,560
the technocracy, and so he says, you know, we're gonna

1299
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:24,920
have to find some form of sacrifice to you know,

1300
01:26:25,239 --> 01:26:28,840
placate the people and have order and meaning and life

1301
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:31,960
and all this kind of stuff. But even Jacquette Lee

1302
01:26:32,079 --> 01:26:35,600
noticed that because I think he had read probably Eliada

1303
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:38,680
like Peterson was mentioning. And that's kind of what Iliata

1304
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:40,880
talks about too, that you know, throughout Biblical religion you

1305
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:44,960
do have these recurring patterns and motifs and principles like sacrifice,

1306
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:49,520
and that's why there's always alter. So whether it's from

1307
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:53,920
the time of you know, the Patriarchs and Genesis, Abraham

1308
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:55,680
builds an altar, calls him the name of the Lord.

1309
01:26:56,199 --> 01:26:58,960
You have in the tabernacle, and then the temple, the

1310
01:26:59,079 --> 01:27:03,760
altar you have in the person of christ sacrifice on

1311
01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:06,319
the Cross, which is the ultimate heavenly altar. In the

1312
01:27:06,359 --> 01:27:09,680
Book of Revelation, when John season heaven Revelation four through six,

1313
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:14,880
actually five through eight, John sees the Lamb slain in heaven,

1314
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:17,760
so he's bleeding in heaven. That means that this application

1315
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:22,840
of this principal sacrifice continues even into the New Testament period,

1316
01:27:22,920 --> 01:27:26,479
which is why we have Melchizedecian priests in the church.

1317
01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:29,920
So there's always been an altar at which there is

1318
01:27:30,119 --> 01:27:35,119
this heavenly sacrifice, which is the key way to refute

1319
01:27:35,279 --> 01:27:38,560
both Protestantism and Islam. You know, protestantsm in Islam pretty

1320
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:43,119
much have done away with those principles. Now Protestants once

1321
01:27:43,199 --> 01:27:47,279
for all, once for all. Yeah, but where's your altar?

1322
01:27:47,640 --> 01:27:49,760
Because Paul says, and he was thirteen, there's still an

1323
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:52,560
altar in the church. Your churches don't have altars. The

1324
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:56,760
Reformation was premised on getting rid of the sacrifice of

1325
01:27:56,760 --> 01:28:00,479
the Mass. So where's it at bro By the way,

1326
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:02,239
when I argue with the debate with them, remember the

1327
01:28:02,279 --> 01:28:05,159
debate with Daniel Hecke gets you, where is your temple?

1328
01:28:05,399 --> 01:28:08,239
Where is your incense? Where's your priesthood? Where's your altar?

1329
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:14,079
Where's any of that? Islam loses all of that because

1330
01:28:14,239 --> 01:28:16,600
Islam is a false religion and a dumb cult.

1331
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:24,199
Speaker 5: Next, the idea of sacrifice becomes more and more sophisticated.

1332
01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:27,640
It's more and more elaborated, it's more and more specified,

1333
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:31,199
it's more and more embodied. There's an obvious progression in a.

1334
01:28:31,239 --> 01:28:33,880
Speaker 6: Way is the progression? Where do you see that progression

1335
01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:36,239
in successive manuscript So.

1336
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:40,640
Speaker 5: In the successive stories, as the story, as the text progresses,

1337
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:46,199
the way the way a novel progresses something sacrifice through

1338
01:28:46,239 --> 01:28:50,520
the entire text is a sacrificial is a sacrificial story?

1339
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:54,000
Speaker 1: Uh, this is true. By the way, it's a holistic

1340
01:28:54,159 --> 01:28:59,000
text which the all the parts makes sense of the whole. Right.

1341
01:28:59,239 --> 01:29:02,600
That's called nic interpretation. That's true. That's how we would

1342
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:06,119
definitely make sense of the Bible from Genesis to the Apocalypse.

1343
01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:10,840
And the only qualm I have is using this term evolution.

1344
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:15,760
It's not evolving, it's just progressive revelation. That's a much

1345
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:20,760
better term than these meanings are evolving. They keep in

1346
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:25,319
mind another element here that's missing in the Peterson scheme

1347
01:29:25,960 --> 01:29:29,000
is the notion of divine revelation. So again for Peterson,

1348
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:37,439
these are archetypal stories that really wise stages collected to

1349
01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:43,560
capture human patterns or something, and then to also help

1350
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:49,359
society's function or something. There's not an idea of these

1351
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:55,479
texts and these passages being supernatural revelation. And that's the

1352
01:29:55,560 --> 01:30:01,600
key element here, and that's why another miss components. And

1353
01:30:01,720 --> 01:30:06,560
I'm sure from Peterson's perspective, I mean, I know he's

1354
01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:11,039
not officially an Orthodox or a Christian. Let's say for

1355
01:30:11,119 --> 01:30:13,840
the sake of argument, he's a secret believer or something

1356
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:16,600
like that, which I think if he really was, he

1357
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:18,960
would go ahead and start saying that he believes in

1358
01:30:19,199 --> 01:30:22,680
the resurrection of Christ and whatnot. But he would probably

1359
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:28,560
say that he's trying to find an inroad through level three, right,

1360
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:32,800
being the most charitable in this analysis. But the problem

1361
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:39,560
is that the Bible actually demonstrates its inspiration through number two.

1362
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:46,159
Why because of all those Messianic prophecies, which are extremely precise.

1363
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:51,399
So I would say the just like Jordan Peterson, what's

1364
01:30:51,399 --> 01:30:57,840
an inroad with Dawkins through archetypes and typology? How about Peterson,

1365
01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:01,680
here's an inroad to you through that same typology. Look

1366
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,199
up Messianic prophecies. And I don't just mean the four

1367
01:31:04,319 --> 01:31:07,159
or five that goober Protestants will cite. I mean the

1368
01:31:07,319 --> 01:31:12,319
dozens and dozens and dozens of very precise Messianic prophecies.

1369
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:15,960
Speaker 5: As well. The Passion story is a story of sacrifice,

1370
01:31:16,359 --> 01:31:20,880
and the sacrificial motif recurs continually through the Biblical text,

1371
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:22,319
and it's elaborated constantly.

1372
01:31:22,359 --> 01:31:26,079
Speaker 8: And Okay, so the criticism is the Bible is a

1373
01:31:26,119 --> 01:31:30,119
text gives us nothing to indicate that it has divine origin.

1374
01:31:30,239 --> 01:31:32,000
There's nothing that we can read in it where we

1375
01:31:32,039 --> 01:31:34,560
think there's no way this idea could have evolved were

1376
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:34,840
it not.

1377
01:31:36,119 --> 01:31:41,600
Speaker 1: No idiot showing your goofiness and total lack of knowledge

1378
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:44,520
of anything in relating relation to these topics. I mean,

1379
01:31:44,560 --> 01:31:48,199
I understand if you didn't believe, but if you should

1380
01:31:48,199 --> 01:31:51,560
at least be familiar with the thing that people cite

1381
01:31:52,399 --> 01:31:56,600
to prove inspiration and divine authorship, which is prophecies and

1382
01:31:56,640 --> 01:32:01,399
their fulfillment. So I mean, just to say something so idiotic,

1383
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:04,399
like there's nothing in the text that would make us

1384
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:07,239
think it's divine, well, first of all, the text themselves

1385
01:32:07,279 --> 01:32:10,119
say they're divine. Now again, you could say that's fraudulent

1386
01:32:10,199 --> 01:32:14,159
and they're just lying. But just the phrase itself is

1387
01:32:14,479 --> 01:32:18,680
obviously patently false because the text claim to be inspired

1388
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:24,000
and divine. Secondly, the evidence for that is the many, many,

1389
01:32:24,079 --> 01:32:27,279
many Messianic prophecies, which don't just predict the person of

1390
01:32:27,279 --> 01:32:29,920
the Messiah, they also predict the church, that he would

1391
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:34,960
establish the calling of Mary blessed throughout all the world,

1392
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:39,119
the church being gentiles converting from all the nations to

1393
01:32:39,239 --> 01:32:42,640
believe in the God of Israel. Hello, that's happened for

1394
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:46,800
two thousand years. Maybe those are prophecies that signify divine

1395
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:50,439
authorship in origin. But he doesn't even know any of this.

1396
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:52,960
These people have no knowledge of it. I'm speaking of

1397
01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:53,960
the atheist.

1398
01:32:54,600 --> 01:32:57,439
Speaker 8: Divinely put into this text. That's a criticism that past

1399
01:32:58,560 --> 01:32:58,920
in the past.

1400
01:32:59,159 --> 01:33:04,239
Speaker 5: It's reflective of some of some order that's so profound

1401
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:08,680
and implicit that there isn't a better way of describing

1402
01:33:08,760 --> 01:33:10,800
it than divine. But I don't really care if we

1403
01:33:11,039 --> 01:33:13,359
if we look at that from the bottom up, like

1404
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:16,760
as a biological phenomena, or is from the top down,

1405
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:18,359
I don't think it makes any difference.

1406
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:19,840
Speaker 7: It doesn't make a difference.

1407
01:33:21,079 --> 01:33:25,880
Speaker 1: Whether it's a biological phenomenon. I mean, I think Peterson

1408
01:33:25,960 --> 01:33:31,439
means by that that archetypes are necessary for survival, that

1409
01:33:31,560 --> 01:33:33,680
humans and societies need them, and all that which is

1410
01:33:34,279 --> 01:33:35,079
I guess that's true.

1411
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:39,800
Speaker 10: Chad mode is that I have designed to take We

1412
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:40,119
do have.

1413
01:33:40,159 --> 01:33:44,800
Speaker 1: A show sponsor, and I do have to plug the sponsors. Briefly.

1414
01:33:45,239 --> 01:33:47,119
If you're listening on the Twitter space, I will be

1415
01:33:47,239 --> 01:33:50,079
right back. But being sick out to drink many many fluids,

1416
01:33:50,159 --> 01:33:53,479
and the many many fluids pass through me very quickly,

1417
01:33:54,039 --> 01:33:55,000
so I'll be right back.

1418
01:33:55,319 --> 01:33:57,600
Speaker 11: I want to show off something that we're all proud of.

1419
01:33:57,880 --> 01:34:03,000
I've got a browser here. This is Jay DIYers, much vaunted,

1420
01:34:03,279 --> 01:34:07,359
much sought after philosophy one oh one. Now he just

1421
01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:09,640
got this page up. We are just testing it out.

1422
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:10,880
You guys are some of the first people in the

1423
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:13,560
world to see it. I want to say, for my part,

1424
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:15,960
it's not philosophy one oh one. I think this is

1425
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:20,399
as mistitling. I really think is as like philosophy unleashed.

1426
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:23,439
Because a philosophy want on one course, they give you

1427
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:25,479
kind of some useless information that you can't.

1428
01:34:25,319 --> 01:34:25,840
Speaker 5: Make sense of.

1429
01:34:26,479 --> 01:34:30,159
Speaker 11: Jay actually lays out over twelve weeks, dozens and dozens

1430
01:34:30,199 --> 01:34:32,960
of hours put into just the presentation of this, let

1431
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:35,399
alone the hundreds and thousands of hours of research that

1432
01:34:35,439 --> 01:34:38,760
it takes to have a coherent evolution and history of

1433
01:34:39,079 --> 01:34:42,119
the origins of philosophy, the uses of philosophy, the different

1434
01:34:42,119 --> 01:34:44,760
ways to look at it over time, and how that

1435
01:34:45,039 --> 01:34:48,319
has been brought about to what we have today, which

1436
01:34:48,399 --> 01:34:52,720
is almost an absence of philosophy on the objective, logic

1437
01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:56,720
and reason side in an overabundance of woke philosophy that

1438
01:34:56,920 --> 01:34:59,359
is irrational is made up day by day as people

1439
01:34:59,399 --> 01:35:01,800
are like, I think we should bring racism back, and

1440
01:35:01,880 --> 01:35:04,439
then here's a justification, and then it gets woke offied

1441
01:35:04,479 --> 01:35:06,640
and spread out, and then all of a sudden you

1442
01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:09,840
have a bunch of communist socialist ideas where you become

1443
01:35:09,920 --> 01:35:12,199
the property in action. You need to be able to

1444
01:35:12,239 --> 01:35:15,520
stand your own ground. It helps to have a foundation

1445
01:35:15,680 --> 01:35:18,479
in philosophy because it's a method to fine truth when

1446
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:20,880
you get down to it. Philosophy is there because you

1447
01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:23,439
love truth enough to go and learn how to find it,

1448
01:35:23,479 --> 01:35:27,159
because it's valuable. So if you're interested in things like that.

1449
01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:30,359
There is the landing page. We'll link it up into notes.

1450
01:35:30,760 --> 01:35:31,920
Speaker 5: It is a longer.

1451
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:34,640
Speaker 11: Once we'll get a shorter url for this. I'm sure

1452
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:36,560
Jay has a link on his page. I just wanted

1453
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:37,039
to show it off.

1454
01:35:37,119 --> 01:35:42,000
Speaker 1: Now you know it exists, all right, let's see.

1455
01:35:45,720 --> 01:35:49,359
Speaker 5: Involved in the human I don't think fundamental look if okay,

1456
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:51,840
so let me ask you this, Like, I think that

1457
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:55,640
at bottom, truth is unified. And what that's going to

1458
01:35:55,680 --> 01:35:57,880
mean eventually is that the world of value, in the

1459
01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:01,079
world of fact coincided in some matter that we don't

1460
01:36:01,159 --> 01:36:04,880
yet understand. And I think that that union, the fact

1461
01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:09,239
of that union, and the fact of that union is

1462
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:13,359
equivalent to what's being described as divine order across.

1463
01:36:17,640 --> 01:36:19,520
Speaker 1: I actually agree with this. I think this is a

1464
01:36:19,560 --> 01:36:24,199
good point. He's basically saying that our worldview is an

1465
01:36:24,279 --> 01:36:32,359
actual worldview, right, Like they're not only intellectually connected, but

1466
01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:38,880
that our views of morals and esthetics and biology are

1467
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:42,760
not just views in our head, but that the universe

1468
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:44,840
really is a uni verse.

1469
01:36:45,159 --> 01:36:45,279
Speaker 7: Right.

1470
01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:50,239
Speaker 1: I remember that book that Cardinal Newman wrote about the university,

1471
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:52,760
and it was talking about how the whole idea is

1472
01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:57,039
that universities come out of the idea that the world,

1473
01:36:57,159 --> 01:37:03,720
the universe is under God. It's a holistic system, a

1474
01:37:03,920 --> 01:37:08,920
uni under a God, and so therefore every part will

1475
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:11,880
have a relationship to the whole and to the source

1476
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:16,279
and to the origin to God. So I think that's

1477
01:37:16,319 --> 01:37:18,319
what he's getting at here, and I would agree with that.

1478
01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:23,000
And I think Peterson would argue that when you hear

1479
01:37:23,119 --> 01:37:26,000
him arguing with the atheists all the time, it's because

1480
01:37:26,039 --> 01:37:30,680
he's trying to get them to He's trying to find

1481
01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:36,680
an inroad with number three. See that that's what's going on.

1482
01:37:39,359 --> 01:37:42,239
But by the way, it is true that reality is

1483
01:37:43,199 --> 01:37:49,119
a set of symbolic correspondences. Now, when we think of symbols,

1484
01:37:49,279 --> 01:37:53,079
we shouldn't think of symbols as something necessarily not real.

1485
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:56,600
In fact, symbols are real. I did a lecture on

1486
01:37:56,840 --> 01:38:03,840
iconography and typology and symbolism a few years ago. It

1487
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:07,039
was the philosophy of iconography, and I was pointing out

1488
01:38:07,159 --> 01:38:09,119
in that talk, which is still up you could go

1489
01:38:09,239 --> 01:38:13,359
find it that it's wrong to think of like icons,

1490
01:38:13,439 --> 01:38:19,119
for example, as symbols. But in another sense, they are

1491
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:22,600
symbols that are real. And what I mean by that

1492
01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:24,680
is a lot of people when they think of symbols,

1493
01:38:24,680 --> 01:38:28,000
they think of something that's not real. Well, that's false

1494
01:38:29,079 --> 01:38:33,159
and it's also a very modern, you know, post Enlightenment idea.

1495
01:38:34,039 --> 01:38:37,840
In the ancient medieval world, symbols are real and they

1496
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:44,560
partake realities higher realities. So if you read, for example, Palamas,

1497
01:38:45,279 --> 01:38:49,319
or if you read the las Ky Awspensky book on iconography,

1498
01:38:49,520 --> 01:38:52,520
in book number two, there's a whole chapter on how

1499
01:38:53,199 --> 01:39:01,279
the icons portray realities and hyperrealities. So it's both. It's

1500
01:39:01,319 --> 01:39:06,479
not an either or it's not purely symbolic or pure allegory.

1501
01:39:07,239 --> 01:39:11,520
There might be allegorical symbolic correspondences within an icon, for

1502
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:16,119
example patterns, color, symbolism, and so forth, but that does

1503
01:39:16,199 --> 01:39:18,720
not mean that the icon is false or that it's

1504
01:39:18,760 --> 01:39:21,359
not telling you the truth, or that it's not telling

1505
01:39:21,399 --> 01:39:24,760
you history. It's telling you aspects of history because that

1506
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:28,239
person really was a living saint in history, and it's

1507
01:39:28,279 --> 01:39:34,680
telling you as catological hyperreality realities, and so symbols are reality.

1508
01:39:34,880 --> 01:39:37,960
Speaker 5: Millennia, there's no difference now. And here's this is a

1509
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:41,399
tricky business because you either believe that the world of

1510
01:39:41,560 --> 01:39:44,600
truth is unified in the final analysis or you don't.

1511
01:39:44,720 --> 01:39:47,960
Those are the options. And if it's notified, then it's

1512
01:39:48,199 --> 01:39:51,840
there's a disunity. There's a contradiction between value and fact,

1513
01:39:52,239 --> 01:39:55,479
or there's a contradiction. Well, there's a contradiction between different

1514
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:57,960
sets of values, and they can't be brought into unity.

1515
01:39:58,000 --> 01:39:58,640
I don't believe that.

1516
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:01,000
Speaker 7: Well, let's go back to you said earlier, which I

1517
01:40:01,079 --> 01:40:01,920
was very interested in.

1518
01:40:03,039 --> 01:40:05,680
Speaker 6: You implied there's no difference between whether the text is

1519
01:40:05,800 --> 01:40:11,319
divinely inspired or whether it evolved in progression during a

1520
01:40:11,439 --> 01:40:17,079
series of manuscripts. Presumably No. I think that's genuinely interesting,

1521
01:40:17,239 --> 01:40:19,520
but it's a huge difference. It's not the same thing.

1522
01:40:19,680 --> 01:40:22,199
I mean, either it was divinely inspired or it wasn't.

1523
01:40:22,359 --> 01:40:25,359
Speaker 5: Well, it's the same thing if it's fundamentally reflective of

1524
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:30,159
the and accurately reflective of the implicit logos or order.

1525
01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:33,800
And I think it is, like, let me explain that

1526
01:40:34,159 --> 01:40:36,600
a moment. It took me a long time to understand

1527
01:40:37,079 --> 01:40:39,560
the concept of sacrifice in the Biblical.

1528
01:40:39,239 --> 01:40:43,319
Speaker 1: Text because it se no icons are not symbols of Satan.

1529
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:45,960
That's what you're saying. Here's the talk that I did

1530
01:40:46,079 --> 01:40:49,359
on this here, And if you just think about this,

1531
01:40:49,520 --> 01:40:52,359
it becomes obvious. I mean, think about the Bible itself,

1532
01:40:52,439 --> 01:40:55,279
think about the Torah itself. It's a book it's a

1533
01:40:55,399 --> 01:40:59,640
scroll with symbols on it, right, So is that evil

1534
01:41:00,239 --> 01:41:02,720
is God? Isn't? Are you an idolator because you write

1535
01:41:02,760 --> 01:41:07,319
God's name? I mean, so obviously created things can encapsulate

1536
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:11,319
and refer to the divine. It's really that simple. So

1537
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:14,279
there is this talk from a few years ago. This

1538
01:41:14,439 --> 01:41:20,079
talk is very philosophy heavy, so if you're not familiar

1539
01:41:20,159 --> 01:41:24,199
with some of those topics, you're not going to enjoy

1540
01:41:24,319 --> 01:41:27,000
that talk very much. But Pajo and I did do

1541
01:41:27,199 --> 01:41:30,279
a talk a few years ago. We did a podcast

1542
01:41:31,239 --> 01:41:35,600
that covers the same material, the same ideas here, and

1543
01:41:36,039 --> 01:41:38,479
you can watch that if you'd like something a little

1544
01:41:38,640 --> 01:41:42,079
maybe a little more accessible. And that talk, by the way,

1545
01:41:42,279 --> 01:41:48,560
is very relevant to what Peterson is discussing here.

1546
01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:54,159
Speaker 5: So anachronistic and so primitives and primitive and not understandable.

1547
01:41:54,319 --> 01:41:58,319
What are these people doing offering no choice cuts of

1548
01:41:58,439 --> 01:42:00,720
meat to a god that is in the sky.

1549
01:42:01,119 --> 01:42:02,239
Speaker 7: Something disgusting about it?

1550
01:42:02,439 --> 01:42:05,600
Speaker 5: Well, it's very easy to satirize, but when you start

1551
01:42:05,640 --> 01:42:08,439
to understand that perception is solf.

1552
01:42:10,840 --> 01:42:14,000
Speaker 1: What a minute, there's something disgusting about it. The fact

1553
01:42:14,079 --> 01:42:18,640
that there's a typology involved in the animal sacrifice system,

1554
01:42:19,159 --> 01:42:22,479
the sacrificial system, because I mean, I want to know,

1555
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:25,760
first of all, on what basis does Richard Dawkins call

1556
01:42:25,920 --> 01:42:30,800
something disgusting? I mean, really, in his worldview, all he

1557
01:42:30,960 --> 01:42:32,720
has is personal taste.

1558
01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:34,720
Speaker 3: But I personally don't like it.

1559
01:42:35,520 --> 01:42:38,600
Speaker 1: And by the way, is he a vegan? What does

1560
01:42:38,680 --> 01:42:40,760
he to have a problem with choice cuts of meat?

1561
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:42,560
Speaker 5: What is he not like?

1562
01:42:42,720 --> 01:42:46,840
Speaker 1: Exactly? But notice the arbitrariness of the atheist world view,

1563
01:42:47,199 --> 01:42:54,800
right obviously the idea that the idea that something is

1564
01:42:55,279 --> 01:43:02,399
disgusting is only a personal subjective opinion. There's nothing objectively

1565
01:43:02,560 --> 01:43:06,760
disgusting that you can demonstrate. Remember, he says, I only

1566
01:43:06,840 --> 01:43:11,079
believe in what I have facts and evidence for. Okay,

1567
01:43:11,159 --> 01:43:16,239
what is the evidence or the factual proof for disgustingness

1568
01:43:16,479 --> 01:43:23,520
or a standard of disgusting disgust disgustination? What is the

1569
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:27,760
standard for discustination? Doctor Dawkins, Doctor Dickey.

1570
01:43:28,039 --> 01:43:31,239
Speaker 5: Health is sacrificial in its nature. And you start to

1571
01:43:31,359 --> 01:43:34,600
understand that there's no difference between work and sacrifice, that

1572
01:43:34,680 --> 01:43:39,159
they're the same thing, and you understand that community is

1573
01:43:39,279 --> 01:43:42,359
predicated on sacrifice, then the emphasis in the text on

1574
01:43:42,479 --> 01:43:47,039
sacrifice starts to become something quite marked and remarkable, especially

1575
01:43:47,079 --> 01:43:49,399
because it's implicit. It isn't obvious at all that the

1576
01:43:49,560 --> 01:43:53,319
authors of the texts and the editors who sequenced them

1577
01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:56,760
actually understood what it was that they were highlighting. So

1578
01:43:57,159 --> 01:44:00,840
with regards to the community, why is the community predicated

1579
01:44:00,920 --> 01:44:05,960
on sacrifice? Because it's not about you the community. Every

1580
01:44:06,079 --> 01:44:09,239
step you take towards the communitarian means that you sacrifice

1581
01:44:09,319 --> 01:44:12,640
something that's local to what you want here and now,

1582
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:14,840
right now, I think you have to give something up.

1583
01:44:15,520 --> 01:44:19,600
Speaker 6: You're wondering something else, and which is something quite quite different.

1584
01:44:20,720 --> 01:44:23,000
The notion of sacrifice, as you say, it goes right

1585
01:44:23,039 --> 01:44:26,319
through the Old Testament and the New Testament, the sacrifice

1586
01:44:26,359 --> 01:44:30,279
of Isaac Ishmael by Abraham and the sacrifice of Jesus.

1587
01:44:31,479 --> 01:44:33,359
Speaker 7: It's the same idea.

1588
01:44:34,439 --> 01:44:41,319
Speaker 1: I think, Wait, did Dawkins say the sacrifice of Isaac

1589
01:44:41,640 --> 01:44:46,439
or Ishmael? Does Dawkins not know what the Genesis text

1590
01:44:46,479 --> 01:44:49,720
says versus what the idiot Muslims say in their corrupted,

1591
01:44:49,840 --> 01:44:52,239
dumb book, Like what did he say?

1592
01:44:52,680 --> 01:44:52,840
Speaker 6: Is that?

1593
01:44:52,920 --> 01:44:52,960
Speaker 3: What?

1594
01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:55,479
Speaker 1: I want to hear this again?

1595
01:45:01,199 --> 01:45:05,239
Speaker 6: And the New Testament pe sacrifice of Isaac Ishmael by

1596
01:45:05,359 --> 01:45:07,760
Abraham and the sacrifice of Jesus.

1597
01:45:09,079 --> 01:45:13,960
Speaker 1: The sacrifice of Isaac Ishmael by Abraham? Does he not

1598
01:45:14,159 --> 01:45:18,399
know what the text? Who was he Ismael? What's he

1599
01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:19,000
talking about?

1600
01:45:20,239 --> 01:45:22,479
Speaker 6: The notion of sacrifice, as you say, it goes right

1601
01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:24,479
through the Old Testament and the New Testament.

1602
01:45:24,560 --> 01:45:27,880
Speaker 7: P sacrifice of Isaac Ishmael by.

1603
01:45:32,159 --> 01:45:32,359
Speaker 2: Rich?

1604
01:45:33,079 --> 01:45:36,279
Speaker 1: Come on, bro Rich, if you're going to critique our book,

1605
01:45:36,399 --> 01:45:38,199
you got to know the stories. Dude, what are you

1606
01:45:38,279 --> 01:45:42,079
talking about? You don't remember whether it's Isaac Ishmael. I mean,

1607
01:45:42,119 --> 01:45:46,079
that's kind of important to the story. And by the way,

1608
01:45:46,119 --> 01:45:49,279
the whole purpose of that story is against human sacrifice.

1609
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:52,199
That's the purpose of it. The God of the Jews

1610
01:45:53,119 --> 01:45:55,920
does not require human sacrifice. That's the whole point of

1611
01:45:56,000 --> 01:46:00,720
that story. And but he thinks it's the lone story

1612
01:46:02,560 --> 01:46:03,560
in Genesis twenty two?

1613
01:46:05,920 --> 01:46:15,319
Speaker 3: Or is Ishmael this saying, as is the Quran is the.

1614
01:46:15,359 --> 01:46:21,319
Speaker 6: True Bible, Abraham and the sacrifice of Jesus. It's the

1615
01:46:21,439 --> 01:46:26,039
same idea. I think it's a very unpleasant idea, by

1616
01:46:26,119 --> 01:46:28,800
the way, but what he writ.

1617
01:46:29,680 --> 01:46:32,640
Speaker 1: So wait a minute, he just admitted that there is

1618
01:46:32,720 --> 01:46:38,680
a connection between the sacrifice of Isaac and Jesus. So

1619
01:46:39,239 --> 01:46:42,560
he's admitting typology. I don't understand. Oh, but he says,

1620
01:46:42,600 --> 01:46:46,640
it's an unpleasant idea. But he doesn't understand, as many

1621
01:46:47,159 --> 01:46:51,439
people out there don't, that we do not believe in

1622
01:46:51,680 --> 01:46:55,079
the Protestant doctrine of God having to damn himself and

1623
01:46:55,199 --> 01:46:59,000
kill himself to save everybody. That's a stupid Protestant doctrine.

1624
01:47:00,199 --> 01:47:03,159
The whole purpose of the incarnation and death of Christ

1625
01:47:03,640 --> 01:47:06,479
is that the second person of the God had willed

1626
01:47:06,600 --> 01:47:09,960
to take on human nature which was damaged by the fall,

1627
01:47:10,439 --> 01:47:13,720
and to heal it. There's no kind of like paying

1628
01:47:13,880 --> 01:47:20,000
off of God. That's not the actual Orthodox story. That

1629
01:47:20,199 --> 01:47:26,600
is a Protestant concoction intended to prop up the Protestant

1630
01:47:26,720 --> 01:47:30,119
doctrines of sola fide. And so now most of the

1631
01:47:30,439 --> 01:47:34,119
world in the West thinks of the Gospel and the

1632
01:47:34,159 --> 01:47:37,920
death of Christ in this stupid Protestant way, and everything

1633
01:47:38,039 --> 01:47:42,239
is characterized around a false debate because people think that

1634
01:47:42,359 --> 01:47:44,399
God had to kill God and pay God off to

1635
01:47:44,479 --> 01:47:48,600
save men, which is dumb. And we critique this a

1636
01:47:48,680 --> 01:47:53,680
million times, but people still don't get it. But he's

1637
01:47:53,720 --> 01:47:56,439
just referring to this idiotic Protestant position.

1638
01:47:56,880 --> 01:48:01,640
Speaker 6: They saying, are you saying that Abraham did or did

1639
01:48:01,720 --> 01:48:06,000
not sacrifice, Isaac, I'm saying that Jesus really was Jesus

1640
01:48:06,079 --> 01:48:08,720
really did die for our sins? I mean, do you

1641
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:11,279
believe that there are Do you believe that as a

1642
01:48:11,359 --> 01:48:13,920
fact that Jesus died for our sins?

1643
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:18,119
Speaker 12: We have a big election coming up and there's a

1644
01:48:18,199 --> 01:48:21,479
lot at stake. But here's something to consider, regardless of

1645
01:48:21,520 --> 01:48:26,560
who's free. Don't claim to understand what might be alert

1646
01:48:26,880 --> 01:48:27,319
Jordan to.

1647
01:48:27,279 --> 01:48:34,439
Speaker 1: The number nine eight today, by the way, he this

1648
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:35,840
showed a gold ad.

1649
01:48:37,760 --> 01:48:37,880
Speaker 5: Uh.

1650
01:48:38,800 --> 01:48:42,560
Speaker 1: Does anybody have been seeing bitcoin? I awoke from my

1651
01:48:44,279 --> 01:48:48,600
fever dream to Bitcoin almost hitting all time high. I thought,

1652
01:48:48,720 --> 01:48:52,560
by the way, that my app says that the at

1653
01:48:52,880 --> 01:48:58,319
H was like seventy two eight, but apparently on other

1654
01:48:58,439 --> 01:49:02,800
exchanges I guess coin bay it had hit seventy three eight.

1655
01:49:05,159 --> 01:49:11,319
So we were like, are a few hundred bucks away?

1656
01:49:12,479 --> 01:49:13,960
And by the way, where's all the haters that were

1657
01:49:13,960 --> 01:49:18,920
talking shit for the last year and we're still over

1658
01:49:19,039 --> 01:49:23,840
seventy we're what seventy one seventy one nine, so basically

1659
01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:28,880
got seventy two thousand? All you dummies like I don't understand,

1660
01:49:28,920 --> 01:49:32,159
Like no, does that not matter to you? Like what's

1661
01:49:32,279 --> 01:49:36,319
right and wrong? Do you just want to show off

1662
01:49:36,399 --> 01:49:39,479
on the internet. Why is everybody so dumb? That's what

1663
01:49:39,560 --> 01:49:41,840
I want to know. What do y'all get What do

1664
01:49:41,920 --> 01:49:44,640
you get out of being dumb? Is it just fun

1665
01:49:44,760 --> 01:49:46,439
being dumb? I don't get it. What are you getting

1666
01:49:46,439 --> 01:49:51,640
out of that? I tried to tell people I've been

1667
01:49:51,800 --> 01:49:58,159
talking BTC since twenty seventeen, and we're edging towards one

1668
01:49:58,239 --> 01:50:03,399
hundred K. Remember I made a video when it went

1669
01:50:03,439 --> 01:50:07,159
down to three K, and here we are almost at

1670
01:50:07,199 --> 01:50:12,359
a damn hundred k. Have you got it through your

1671
01:50:12,399 --> 01:50:18,680
thick skulls yet? And here comes here. They'll never stop.

1672
01:50:18,800 --> 01:50:20,800
Bit quite will be a million dollars and we're gonna

1673
01:50:20,800 --> 01:50:21,600
be hearing these idiots.

1674
01:50:21,680 --> 01:50:22,399
Speaker 3: He's gonna go to.

1675
01:50:22,520 --> 01:50:23,560
Speaker 1: Zero next year.

1676
01:50:23,800 --> 01:50:28,760
Speaker 5: We've gone January, gonna go zero. There are elements of

1677
01:50:28,920 --> 01:50:33,159
the texts that I don't claim to understand. What my

1678
01:50:33,359 --> 01:50:36,479
experience has been that the more deeply alert I look

1679
01:50:36,560 --> 01:50:39,960
into these texts, the more I learned. That doesn't mean

1680
01:50:40,079 --> 01:50:45,600
that I can proclaim full knowledge of what the texts proclaim,

1681
01:50:46,239 --> 01:50:49,039
but I don't think and I'm not trying to play

1682
01:50:49,039 --> 01:50:51,279
a trick here. You know, I watched an interview that

1683
01:50:51,359 --> 01:50:53,239
you did recently where you were talking I think it

1684
01:50:53,359 --> 01:50:58,119
was with Pierce Morgan. Yeah, about the about the complexities

1685
01:50:58,199 --> 01:51:02,199
of trying to understand this strain realm of quantum phenomena. Right,

1686
01:51:02,439 --> 01:51:04,760
and we have a trouble with quantum phenomena because at

1687
01:51:04,800 --> 01:51:07,520
the micro level, things don't act.

1688
01:51:08,880 --> 01:51:13,119
Speaker 1: Oh, here we go, quantum phenomena. Now, I'm not making

1689
01:51:13,159 --> 01:51:16,960
fun of Peterson for bringing this up, but for Richard Dawkins. Now,

1690
01:51:16,960 --> 01:51:19,479
I don't know what his views are, but it is

1691
01:51:19,560 --> 01:51:21,800
funny to me atheists of believe in all this quantum

1692
01:51:21,840 --> 01:51:25,159
gibber jabber, right, like quantum foam and all this nonsense,

1693
01:51:25,239 --> 01:51:28,399
because it really is just atheists bringing metaphysics back under

1694
01:51:28,399 --> 01:51:31,880
the guise of atheism, under the guise of science, right

1695
01:51:32,439 --> 01:51:32,720
or like.

1696
01:51:33,239 --> 01:51:36,600
Speaker 3: Well, of course we know there can be alterations in

1697
01:51:36,720 --> 01:51:41,239
the multiverse through the quantum foam where the dinosaur universe,

1698
01:51:41,399 --> 01:51:45,479
where I am the overlord, and I preside if I

1699
01:51:45,560 --> 01:51:50,199
can tap into my consciousness in that realm, I can

1700
01:51:50,720 --> 01:51:53,039
sap into some of the powers into this realm. You see,

1701
01:51:53,079 --> 01:51:54,279
it's all very science y.

1702
01:51:55,680 --> 01:51:58,239
Speaker 5: Act like things act at the macro level, so they

1703
01:51:58,439 --> 01:52:00,800
escape our intuitions. In One of the things you said

1704
01:52:01,000 --> 01:52:06,119
was that although it's perhaps even impossible for creatures embodied

1705
01:52:06,239 --> 01:52:10,319
like us to get a grip on quantum phenomena the

1706
01:52:10,439 --> 01:52:14,840
strange wave particle duality, for example, we have ample evidence

1707
01:52:14,960 --> 01:52:17,600
that it works and stellarly. And I would say exactly

1708
01:52:17,680 --> 01:52:20,319
the same thing about the Biblical texts is they run

1709
01:52:20,399 --> 01:52:23,000
into a mystery. Like there's a horizon of mystery, which

1710
01:52:23,079 --> 01:52:26,800
I do not claim to penetrate. But in so far

1711
01:52:26,880 --> 01:52:29,239
as I've been able to understand the text, every time

1712
01:52:29,319 --> 01:52:32,760
I make a improvement in understanding it reveals something to

1713
01:52:32,880 --> 01:52:35,079
me that's just might shattery.

1714
01:52:35,319 --> 01:52:39,680
Speaker 6: Toun Physics is deeply mysterious, and you're saying that Biblical

1715
01:52:39,760 --> 01:52:43,840
texts are deeply mysterious. The difference is quantum physics. The

1716
01:52:43,960 --> 01:52:48,119
predictions you derive from quantum physics are fulfilled to the

1717
01:52:48,279 --> 01:52:52,680
unptieenth decimal place, the emptieenth definal place. I mean, I

1718
01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:55,640
think was Richard Finland Say's equivalent to predicting the width

1719
01:52:55,720 --> 01:52:57,680
of North America to the nearest has breadth.

1720
01:52:59,119 --> 01:53:02,520
Speaker 1: What kind of bullshit is this? I mean, come on, uh,

1721
01:53:02,880 --> 01:53:06,159
you got to know that, like the majority of quantum

1722
01:53:06,279 --> 01:53:09,960
stuff is just bull crap, right, And every time you

1723
01:53:10,159 --> 01:53:12,880
if you go and read into any of this. It's

1724
01:53:12,920 --> 01:53:16,560
all theoretical, right. They always put out these like you

1725
01:53:16,640 --> 01:53:20,680
know Soliens that website, They put out all this endless

1726
01:53:20,760 --> 01:53:22,960
gibber jabbern ons and then when you actually read about

1727
01:53:23,000 --> 01:53:26,159
what this stuff is or quantum computers, well it's the

1728
01:53:26,279 --> 01:53:30,439
theoretical realm, right. But everybody, all these want to be

1729
01:53:30,560 --> 01:53:33,079
smart heads on the Internet try to talk about stuff

1730
01:53:33,279 --> 01:53:35,479
like it's real, like they know about it, like like

1731
01:53:35,600 --> 01:53:38,119
they're working in an underground base on quantum computer.

1732
01:53:38,520 --> 01:53:40,920
Speaker 3: Well, I've talked to Zuckerbug and he's told me that

1733
01:53:41,279 --> 01:53:44,000
the quantum phoam chip will be next.

1734
01:53:43,840 --> 01:53:47,119
Speaker 7: To you, I don't know, definite place.

1735
01:53:47,439 --> 01:53:50,119
Speaker 6: I mean, I think was Richard Finland says, the equivalent

1736
01:53:50,279 --> 01:53:53,239
to predicting the wits of North America to the nearest Hasbrits.

1737
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:58,319
Speaker 1: Well, if that science man said it that, what else

1738
01:53:58,399 --> 01:54:02,840
do you need? Quantum foam vindicated?

1739
01:54:03,000 --> 01:54:03,079
Speaker 7: Bro?

1740
01:54:06,479 --> 01:54:08,560
Speaker 1: And you think I'm joking about quantum foam? Do you

1741
01:54:08,640 --> 01:54:12,960
remember when because we covered it with John Adams back

1742
01:54:13,000 --> 01:54:16,800
in the day. Do you remember when they were you?

1743
01:54:16,880 --> 01:54:20,119
Won't you? I kid you not. If you don't know

1744
01:54:20,159 --> 01:54:23,239
about this, you're gonna love this. Let's see if it's

1745
01:54:23,239 --> 01:54:36,560
still up. I hope it is. So there were some

1746
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:46,000
science boys. Oh man, it's not up anymore. There used

1747
01:54:46,039 --> 01:54:48,920
to be an our an article. It might have been

1748
01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:53,479
on like a It might have been on like a

1749
01:54:54,399 --> 01:54:59,760
Huffington Post. But they were arguing that quantum foam was

1750
01:54:59,840 --> 01:55:01,960
a way to demonstrate I kid you not. This is

1751
01:55:01,960 --> 01:55:06,720
the funniest shit ever that nine to eleven truthers were

1752
01:55:07,039 --> 01:55:13,279
retroactively causing the Big Nine to have been a conspiracy

1753
01:55:14,520 --> 01:55:18,399
through quantum foam. Kid you not. It was one of

1754
01:55:18,479 --> 01:55:25,439
the dumbest scientism bullshit stuff I've ever seen. But now

1755
01:55:25,560 --> 01:55:26,720
look at all this crap.

1756
01:55:27,640 --> 01:55:34,079
Speaker 3: Is space time quantum probably being space time foam, quantum foam,

1757
01:55:34,439 --> 01:55:37,560
virtual particles, quantum boone.

1758
01:55:45,680 --> 01:55:51,800
Speaker 13: Whoa louse that dudes like ice cream combes, quantum cone. Dude,

1759
01:55:54,000 --> 01:55:55,960
it's just self looking quantum cone.

1760
01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:01,119
Speaker 1: Anyway, This is all just like this is what higher

1761
01:56:01,279 --> 01:56:06,760
IQ science nerds do instead of Marvel. They just make

1762
01:56:06,840 --> 01:56:11,760
up shit like that and normies. This is what normies

1763
01:56:11,760 --> 01:56:12,399
think is smart.

1764
01:56:12,520 --> 01:56:14,960
Speaker 5: This kind of stuff that no doubt.

1765
01:56:15,199 --> 01:56:19,600
Speaker 6: The mystery there as it gains its credentials by its predictions.

1766
01:56:19,680 --> 01:56:22,119
The mysteries of the Bible don't have any credentials at all,

1767
01:56:22,159 --> 01:56:24,079
as far as I can make of well, I guess

1768
01:56:24,199 --> 01:56:25,520
the credentials.

1769
01:56:25,039 --> 01:56:25,720
Speaker 5: That I would put.

1770
01:56:26,960 --> 01:56:28,760
Speaker 1: Well, but wait a minute, Richard, how do you have

1771
01:56:28,960 --> 01:56:32,000
the credentials to talk about the Bible's credentials? You don't.

1772
01:56:32,079 --> 01:56:36,800
But secondly, again, why have you not at least addressed

1773
01:56:37,119 --> 01:56:41,359
the Messianic prophecies? I mean, that's the thing that demonstrates inspiration.

1774
01:56:42,159 --> 01:56:46,319
So where is at least some reference to this right

1775
01:56:46,399 --> 01:56:49,920
against Like they don't even mention the thing that is

1776
01:56:50,399 --> 01:56:52,199
the most cited and obvious thing.

1777
01:56:52,560 --> 01:56:56,720
Speaker 5: You made a statement a couple of months ago that

1778
01:56:56,840 --> 01:57:01,840
I found very interesting and I claim to understand it,

1779
01:57:02,039 --> 01:57:03,640
and I'm not trying to put you on the spot

1780
01:57:03,720 --> 01:57:07,039
with it. You said that you were a cultural Chris, okay,

1781
01:57:07,039 --> 01:57:07,840
and so that reason.

1782
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:11,479
Speaker 1: By the way, Yeah, quantum whatever, it's like a marketing

1783
01:57:11,640 --> 01:57:17,159
term you just stick. It's like in crypto. Remember last

1784
01:57:17,239 --> 01:57:22,760
year in crypto you just put meta anything, right, or

1785
01:57:22,880 --> 01:57:25,079
maybe two or three years ago in crypto when they

1786
01:57:25,119 --> 01:57:27,720
were gonna roll out metaverse. Then you could just put

1787
01:57:27,800 --> 01:57:29,920
anything meta in it, make a crypto and it would

1788
01:57:29,920 --> 01:57:34,359
go crazy. It's just marketing, dude. Yeah, cyberum up, it

1789
01:57:34,439 --> 01:57:39,640
has a quantum blank quantum insert equals new pseudo intellectual

1790
01:57:39,760 --> 01:57:46,239
words that will raise your shoe size level IQ exactly quantum,

1791
01:57:47,000 --> 01:57:50,760
quantum cream pie exactly, Quantum foam. Let's come up with

1792
01:57:50,840 --> 01:57:55,800
some new science. Shit, bro, what's a quantum science? Oh dude,

1793
01:57:56,880 --> 01:58:00,880
whoa that's like, I don't We're not there yet. Okay, guys, can't,

1794
01:58:01,319 --> 01:58:04,680
we can't even we shouldn't be uttering that word. Quantum

1795
01:58:04,840 --> 01:58:09,199
science is right now. It's theoretical. There's a lot of

1796
01:58:09,239 --> 01:58:11,359
peer of you literature, but it's something that we really

1797
01:58:11,439 --> 01:58:15,079
hope to see kind of in the field by twenty

1798
01:58:15,159 --> 01:58:20,359
one hundred, but we're not at that yet. Quantum cooming, Yes,

1799
01:58:20,840 --> 01:58:28,800
that exists. Quantum. That's when you coom before you com quantum, guys,

1800
01:58:28,840 --> 01:58:31,840
I want your best quantums in the chat. I'm going

1801
01:58:31,920 --> 01:58:38,760
to read out the best ones. Quantum Catholicism, that's the

1802
01:58:38,880 --> 01:58:41,920
religion of the future. We're not there yet. It's theoretical

1803
01:58:42,439 --> 01:58:47,000
we will see a quantum pope who will develop that

1804
01:58:48,520 --> 01:58:53,279
the quantum Vatican Council. But also that council has already

1805
01:58:53,359 --> 01:59:08,960
happened before it's happened, So I'm gonna read the best one. Quantum. Friends,

1806
01:59:10,199 --> 01:59:15,119
if you're lonely. You have friends even though you don't

1807
01:59:15,159 --> 01:59:19,760
know them. They're just simply in a different universe. I

1808
01:59:19,960 --> 01:59:30,960
like quantum science. Still, that one sounds really legit. Quantum

1809
01:59:31,119 --> 01:59:35,079
quantum that's like next level quantum. That's where the quantum

1810
01:59:35,199 --> 01:59:38,319
is happening before the quantum is happening, before the quantum set.

1811
01:59:38,359 --> 01:59:43,920
So it's like it's basically a perpetual motion machine. That's

1812
01:59:43,920 --> 01:59:50,279
what we're talking about here. Quantum evolution. Oh, that's legit.

1813
01:59:51,640 --> 01:59:54,760
It's not here yet. It's theoretical. We're in the process

1814
01:59:54,920 --> 01:59:59,760
of laying the groundwork for understanding the mechanics of quantum evolution.

1815
02:00:00,319 --> 02:00:01,880
Look how I made that shit sound real?

1816
02:00:02,079 --> 02:00:02,239
Speaker 5: Right?

1817
02:00:03,119 --> 02:00:06,119
Speaker 1: I made that shit sound real, dude? Right there? Uh

1818
02:00:06,880 --> 02:00:09,840
so we got quantum science. We don't write these down.

1819
02:00:09,880 --> 02:00:13,119
These are legit. We'll do a whole podcast on quantum coin.

1820
02:00:13,560 --> 02:00:19,880
That's a crypto of the future. Quantum science. Quantum evolution

1821
02:00:20,119 --> 02:00:27,800
is really good. Quantum evolution, quantum meditation, let's get let's

1822
02:00:27,840 --> 02:00:43,119
get full on new age quantum catholicism. Quantum meta quantum

1823
02:00:43,720 --> 02:00:46,159
that's we can't even think that yet. We got to

1824
02:00:46,239 --> 02:00:49,439
have a quantum AI to think about the quantum meta

1825
02:00:49,560 --> 02:00:57,520
quantum quantum atheism. Oh shit, how do we not have that? Yeah?

1826
02:00:57,560 --> 02:01:00,479
I mean that's the next level of becoming an atheists.

1827
02:01:00,560 --> 02:01:08,279
Before you've become an atheist. You guys have got some

1828
02:01:08,359 --> 02:01:17,680
good ones. Your quantum girlfriend, Quantum queef very possible, Quantum

1829
02:01:17,840 --> 02:01:26,640
dawkins not bad, Quantum tag argument, We're not there yet,

1830
02:01:32,640 --> 02:01:42,560
Quantum of solace, Quantum come quats, Quantum cute, Quantum cantaloups,

1831
02:01:42,800 --> 02:01:55,840
Quantum quantum keys, Quantum quantum fluid. That's pretty close to

1832
02:01:55,960 --> 02:02:07,760
quantum pham. But that's okay. Quantum atheism, I like these

1833
02:02:07,760 --> 02:02:17,960
are great Quantum all right, that's that's we got some

1834
02:02:18,079 --> 02:02:25,800
good ones here. I'm gonna quantum elon, Quantum reddit, quantum ethics.

1835
02:02:25,880 --> 02:02:28,920
That's definitely something we're gonna see rolling out. So you

1836
02:02:28,960 --> 02:02:30,920
see how easy it is. You just put quantum in

1837
02:02:31,000 --> 02:02:33,800
front of anything and it sounds like some like super

1838
02:02:33,920 --> 02:02:37,079
deep normy. Shit, this is a blowing normy's mind. Dude,

1839
02:02:37,279 --> 02:02:41,000
I got one whiteboard right here to pop a normy's

1840
02:02:41,039 --> 02:02:43,520
mind like a damn ZiT. Watch this. You ready to

1841
02:02:43,600 --> 02:02:44,800
pop a normy's mind?

1842
02:02:45,880 --> 02:02:56,319
Speaker 14: Pop Quantum science, quantum evolution, quantum catholicism, Quantum I forgot

1843
02:02:56,399 --> 02:03:01,439
where that one is quantum fluid, quantum atheism, quantum fluid,

1844
02:03:01,479 --> 02:03:02,399
and quantum ethics.

1845
02:03:03,640 --> 02:03:05,399
Speaker 1: You just blew a normy's mind right there.

1846
02:03:08,439 --> 02:03:10,520
Speaker 5: Number of questions in my mind, you know.

1847
02:03:10,720 --> 02:03:13,840
Speaker 7: And the first question was you are changing the subject.

1848
02:03:14,079 --> 02:03:17,520
Speaker 5: No, no, I don't think so. I may be leaping

1849
02:03:17,640 --> 02:03:19,560
outside of the topic of bit.

1850
02:03:20,119 --> 02:03:22,560
Speaker 8: Cultural Christianity, but I think I have a list of

1851
02:03:22,640 --> 02:03:24,079
questions that you wanted to ask, and that is one of.

1852
02:03:27,920 --> 02:03:31,199
Speaker 1: All of the snotty dudes arrogance that the we can

1853
02:03:31,359 --> 02:03:31,680
do this.

1854
02:03:32,359 --> 02:03:37,359
Speaker 3: I shall permit this as the cop of the as

1855
02:03:37,439 --> 02:03:43,119
the village person policeman of debate. We shall do this

1856
02:03:43,760 --> 02:03:48,760
by law. Section three three three of the Quantum Code

1857
02:03:49,239 --> 02:03:55,079
allows me, as the debate cop, to allow cultural Christianity

1858
02:03:55,199 --> 02:03:56,319
to be discussed.

1859
02:03:57,239 --> 02:04:02,439
Speaker 5: But I think professor referring to the predictive and to utility. Okay,

1860
02:04:02,479 --> 02:04:05,079
so that's actually what I was trying to so that

1861
02:04:05,199 --> 02:04:05,880
that was the point.

1862
02:04:07,600 --> 02:04:12,720
Speaker 1: Peterson is super energetic. I've never seen him be this energetic.

1863
02:04:15,079 --> 02:04:17,920
And Richard Dawkins looks like an old turtle is about

1864
02:04:17,920 --> 02:04:21,680
to like cave over, and Peterson actually looks like it.

1865
02:04:23,199 --> 02:04:25,479
He looks kind of chad here like, he looks like

1866
02:04:25,560 --> 02:04:27,720
he could like get up and just like whip the

1867
02:04:27,800 --> 02:04:30,760
ship out of Dicky Dawkins. Dawkins looks like he's about

1868
02:04:30,760 --> 02:04:35,399
to roll over and frigging start becoming a He's already

1869
02:04:35,479 --> 02:04:38,680
in his mean phase of becoming a damn fossil.

1870
02:04:38,479 --> 02:04:42,720
Speaker 5: Beeping outside of the topic of bits, But.

1871
02:04:42,760 --> 02:04:46,960
Speaker 3: I think I shall permit this as the British cup

1872
02:04:47,039 --> 02:04:49,199
of debate from the village people.

1873
02:04:49,640 --> 02:04:51,079
Speaker 8: I have a list of questions that you wanted to ask,

1874
02:04:51,119 --> 02:04:51,840
and that is one of them.

1875
02:04:51,880 --> 02:04:57,039
Speaker 5: But I think professor to the predictive power and to utility, Okay,

1876
02:04:57,079 --> 02:04:59,680
so that's actually what I was trying to so that

1877
02:04:59,800 --> 02:05:03,399
that the point. Well, it seemed to me that your

1878
02:05:03,880 --> 02:05:07,840
proclamation that you were a cultural Christian was a recognition

1879
02:05:09,600 --> 02:05:13,119
and this statement that you had found something in the

1880
02:05:13,199 --> 02:05:16,000
culture that had been derived from Christianity that you had

1881
02:05:16,039 --> 02:05:18,800
an affinity with and that there's some reason for that.

1882
02:05:18,960 --> 02:05:21,000
And one of the things I wanted to ask you is, well,

1883
02:05:21,479 --> 02:05:25,800
what do you think that Christianity got right that allows

1884
02:05:25,880 --> 02:05:28,000
you to make a statement like that. I mean, I know,

1885
02:05:28,159 --> 02:05:31,039
I know that there's differences perhaps in what we both

1886
02:05:31,119 --> 02:05:35,560
think about the ultimate veracity of the biblical stories. Maybe

1887
02:05:35,640 --> 02:05:37,680
there isn't differences like it would take a lot of

1888
02:05:37,800 --> 02:05:40,600
conversations figure this out. But but what did you mean

1889
02:05:40,680 --> 02:05:43,079
by that? Like, what do you think that Christianity got

1890
02:05:43,159 --> 02:05:45,079
right that would enable you to make a statement like that?

1891
02:05:45,239 --> 02:05:49,840
Speaker 7: Actually, nothing I meant by that, no more.

1892
02:05:50,000 --> 02:05:54,359
Speaker 1: Down the time, he sounds like he's getting a little

1893
02:05:54,399 --> 02:05:57,079
nervous there, dude. Peterson's over there, like he looks like

1894
02:05:57,119 --> 02:06:00,920
about a ten foot chad gorilla to this little old

1895
02:06:01,960 --> 02:06:06,039
British fossil that's about to rollover and croak. Dude, And

1896
02:06:06,159 --> 02:06:08,199
he's did you hear that? Hear that? It sound like

1897
02:06:08,239 --> 02:06:15,359
you get a little nervous. He's like tripping over his words.

1898
02:06:17,199 --> 02:06:18,399
Speaker 5: But what did you mean by that?

1899
02:06:18,560 --> 02:06:19,640
Speaker 7: Like, what do you here?

1900
02:06:19,760 --> 02:06:22,000
Speaker 1: Some looks like a giant that's about to like crush

1901
02:06:22,079 --> 02:06:22,880
this little dude.

1902
02:06:22,880 --> 02:06:25,199
Speaker 5: I think that Christianity got right they would enable you

1903
02:06:25,239 --> 02:06:26,199
to make a statement like that.

1904
02:06:26,359 --> 02:06:31,439
Speaker 6: Actually, nothing I meant by that, since no more. When

1905
02:06:31,479 --> 02:06:35,000
I brought up in the Christian culture, I went to

1906
02:06:35,079 --> 02:06:38,079
Christian schools. I therefore know my way around the Bible.

1907
02:06:38,199 --> 02:06:41,720
Speaker 3: I knew I want a cookies and nothing more.

1908
02:06:42,159 --> 02:06:45,000
Speaker 7: My way around the Book of Common Prayer. I know,

1909
02:06:45,359 --> 02:06:46,159
I know the hymns.

1910
02:06:46,920 --> 02:06:50,960
Speaker 1: That's I know, my way around the Book of Common

1911
02:06:51,079 --> 02:06:54,439
Prayers and him it's okay, I mean he just laid

1912
02:06:54,520 --> 02:06:59,520
down some some hardcore Christian street creer right there. You

1913
02:06:59,560 --> 02:07:02,960
know what I'm saying, that's so Christian street creer right there.

1914
02:07:03,199 --> 02:07:04,479
You know that Book our Prayer.

1915
02:07:04,840 --> 02:07:09,600
Speaker 6: Oh, I don't value Christianity as a truth system at all.

1916
02:07:10,039 --> 02:07:13,560
Speaker 5: Okay, So let me ask you about that, because maybe

1917
02:07:13,680 --> 02:07:17,720
that's true and perhaps it's not. So the first question

1918
02:07:17,960 --> 02:07:21,359
is like, do you think that there are any marked

1919
02:07:21,560 --> 02:07:25,079
differences between cultural traditions that would enable you to rank

1920
02:07:25,279 --> 02:07:28,439
order them in terms of their ethical validity? Okay, So,

1921
02:07:28,600 --> 02:07:34,920
for example, we could contrast mainstream UK Christianity with Islamic fundamentals. Okay,

1922
02:07:35,000 --> 02:07:35,960
so there's a hierarchy.

1923
02:07:37,319 --> 02:07:41,199
Speaker 1: Wait, Richard Dawkins says, there's a hierarchy of which types

1924
02:07:41,239 --> 02:07:43,800
of systems, religiously speaking.

1925
02:07:43,720 --> 02:07:45,159
Speaker 5: Are good or bad.

1926
02:07:47,920 --> 02:07:51,840
Speaker 1: Is there anything more foolish than the atheist? I mean seriously,

1927
02:07:53,800 --> 02:07:56,359
And you know when you talk to a lot of atheists,

1928
02:07:56,880 --> 02:07:59,560
deep down they know they know that they don't have

1929
02:07:59,600 --> 02:08:04,039
any bay for these standards, these value judgments. Okay, what

1930
02:08:04,399 --> 02:08:08,199
basis is this goober going to have to rank these religions,

1931
02:08:09,840 --> 02:08:12,159
because to rank something is to put them on a

1932
02:08:12,279 --> 02:08:16,840
scale based on some standard, some measure. Okay, where does

1933
02:08:16,920 --> 02:08:20,760
the measure, the standard, the value judgment come from, Richard?

1934
02:08:22,880 --> 02:08:26,520
It cannot be purely subjective, and yet every atheist worldview

1935
02:08:26,560 --> 02:08:30,800
always ends in ultimately pure subjectivism when they're consistent.

1936
02:08:32,680 --> 02:08:36,760
Speaker 7: Hierarchy that points to what well, in the case of Islam.

1937
02:08:37,399 --> 02:08:40,319
Speaker 1: Now this, maybe Peterson there is making the point I

1938
02:08:40,439 --> 02:08:45,560
just made, right, So this is the clearest, like obvious

1939
02:08:45,800 --> 02:08:49,640
just destruction of any atheist position right there, because they

1940
02:08:49,640 --> 02:08:53,920
always want to say, they're always pontificating on their morals, right,

1941
02:08:54,039 --> 02:08:57,159
how moral they are, and how Christianity is so bad

1942
02:08:57,319 --> 02:08:59,800
and the other you know. But now he just said

1943
02:09:00,000 --> 02:09:05,279
as long is worse? Okay, on what basis? And it

1944
02:09:05,399 --> 02:09:06,720
sounds like that's where Peterson went.

1945
02:09:07,239 --> 02:09:12,520
Speaker 6: I dislike any religion which punishes apostasy with death.

1946
02:09:13,000 --> 02:09:17,399
Speaker 1: Oh you dislike it? Really, here's your greatest mind of

1947
02:09:17,479 --> 02:09:22,159
the atheist world, supposedly one of them. What's the standard

1948
02:09:22,359 --> 02:09:26,680
for this hierarchy of good and bad religions? I dislike? Okay,

1949
02:09:26,800 --> 02:09:30,840
this is the same level as when Peterson debated Matt

1950
02:09:30,920 --> 02:09:32,920
Dila Hunty, or maybe it was one of the other

1951
02:09:32,960 --> 02:09:36,760
Matt debates. I don't remember, and Dila monkey said monkeys

1952
02:09:36,880 --> 02:09:40,039
have value, so I have value. One of the monkeys

1953
02:09:40,079 --> 02:09:44,039
in the past said I have value. Therefore monkey life

1954
02:09:44,159 --> 02:09:46,640
have value and I have value. I shit you not.

1955
02:09:46,920 --> 02:09:51,079
That is the Matt Dila Hunty argument. That's the justification

1956
02:09:51,680 --> 02:09:54,680
for why life has value and why there might be

1957
02:09:54,760 --> 02:09:57,479
a secular ethic because monkey have value.

1958
02:09:58,119 --> 02:10:01,199
Speaker 7: That throws gay people like and I don't like.

1959
02:10:01,359 --> 02:10:04,439
Speaker 1: So here's the trick. They always do this. We saw

1960
02:10:04,640 --> 02:10:10,760
remember when we were critiquing the Sam Harris debates. When

1961
02:10:10,800 --> 02:10:14,680
you ask an atheist what's the standard, they do a

1962
02:10:14,800 --> 02:10:18,720
rhetorical trick where they say, well, I don't like a

1963
02:10:18,840 --> 02:10:24,920
religion that condemns people to death. So that's a rhetorical trick.

1964
02:10:25,439 --> 02:10:27,720
That doesn't tell me the standard. I don't give a

1965
02:10:27,760 --> 02:10:31,199
shit whether you like it or not. That means you're

1966
02:10:31,199 --> 02:10:36,079
a dumb debater. And how has this geriatric goon, after

1967
02:10:36,800 --> 02:10:40,560
however many damn decades of debating, how has he not

1968
02:10:40,680 --> 02:10:46,199
figured out how to at least give a sensible answer.

1969
02:10:46,640 --> 02:10:52,000
I think actually he knows to just play to his

1970
02:10:53,439 --> 02:10:54,960
I don't know, what do you think? The REDDITI Q

1971
02:10:55,239 --> 02:10:59,840
is just play to the bass. I guess, like, if

1972
02:11:00,079 --> 02:11:05,399
if this has been good enough to satisfy fifty million dummies,

1973
02:11:06,279 --> 02:11:07,920
why change the game plan?

1974
02:11:08,239 --> 02:11:08,359
Speaker 5: Right?

1975
02:11:08,520 --> 02:11:13,319
Speaker 1: Just roll with the same stuff, right. You saying you

1976
02:11:13,399 --> 02:11:15,880
don't like it doesn't tell me why it's wrong. You

1977
02:11:16,039 --> 02:11:17,760
saying you don't like it doesn't tell me what a

1978
02:11:17,840 --> 02:11:21,319
standard is and how we would know this standard. It's

1979
02:11:21,399 --> 02:11:26,199
so simple, like this is such a fundamental philosophical question.

1980
02:11:27,319 --> 02:11:32,439
It's inexcusable that somebody at this level of intellect IQ

1981
02:11:32,840 --> 02:11:38,479
and public prominence is answering in such a just low

1982
02:11:38,640 --> 02:11:40,159
tier emotional way.

1983
02:11:41,279 --> 02:11:43,399
Speaker 3: But I don't like a religion where people get killed.

1984
02:11:46,119 --> 02:11:49,640
You'll mean, you'll mean, that's the equivalent.

1985
02:11:49,680 --> 02:11:54,359
Speaker 1: That's what he's basically saying, what's your standard, Richard for epistemology?

1986
02:11:55,520 --> 02:11:57,760
Speaker 5: I don't like it? What I like?

1987
02:11:58,439 --> 02:12:02,680
Speaker 1: That's that's what you saying. The smartest man on the

1988
02:12:02,720 --> 02:12:07,159
planet for you atheists literally just says, it's what I

1989
02:12:07,239 --> 02:12:11,279
don't like. What's the standard? What's the epistemology.

1990
02:12:12,760 --> 02:12:15,840
Speaker 7: Full of high buildings that practices can don't reject to me?

1991
02:12:16,279 --> 02:12:18,000
Speaker 1: So then they do it. They all do this. They

1992
02:12:18,199 --> 02:12:21,439
read out the litany of the things that this religion

1993
02:12:21,479 --> 02:12:26,760
over here does that they don't like. Okay, this rhetorical trick.

1994
02:12:28,239 --> 02:12:31,439
This is an emotional appeal, so you want to go

1995
02:12:31,479 --> 02:12:36,119
into the fallacies. It's an emotional appeal to tell me

1996
02:12:36,279 --> 02:12:42,279
that the ranking of the religions is due to Oh look,

1997
02:12:42,359 --> 02:12:46,960
here's these abuses. The abuses tell me nothing about the

1998
02:12:47,119 --> 02:12:54,279
standard itself, because your listing of the abuses presupposes a

1999
02:12:54,520 --> 02:13:00,199
standard that those things are bad, and the standard was

2000
02:13:00,239 --> 02:13:01,000
the thing in question.

2001
02:13:01,359 --> 02:13:07,159
Speaker 6: Dummy, That seems to me to place Islam on a

2002
02:13:07,239 --> 02:13:10,039
lower level than Christianity. But that's not to say anything

2003
02:13:10,199 --> 02:13:11,880
very positive about Christianity.

2004
02:13:12,039 --> 02:13:14,359
Speaker 5: Well it might, it might be to say something positive

2005
02:13:14,359 --> 02:13:15,680
about Christianity, like I think.

2006
02:13:16,319 --> 02:13:20,560
Speaker 1: So Dawkins right there just revealed his inveterate hatred of

2007
02:13:20,640 --> 02:13:27,720
Christianity because Islam is worse, he says. But Islam being

2008
02:13:27,880 --> 02:13:32,920
worse does not make Christianity positive. That's pretty wild. So

2009
02:13:33,079 --> 02:13:40,560
it's better than Islam, but it's still not anything positive. Well, Richard,

2010
02:13:40,560 --> 02:13:44,279
wouldn't you rather live in a Christian country than a

2011
02:13:44,640 --> 02:13:49,800
Islamic caliphate? By that logic? So even the statement itself

2012
02:13:49,920 --> 02:13:54,520
is dumb because obviously living in one society is Christian

2013
02:13:55,159 --> 02:14:00,479
versus Muslim is a positive, But really he just reveals

2014
02:14:01,279 --> 02:14:07,159
the stance of the unbelief towards God, which is hatred.

2015
02:14:07,920 --> 02:14:11,760
So you'll notice that really it's an inveterate hatred towards

2016
02:14:11,880 --> 02:14:21,439
Christ irrational and when asked about the rational justification, it's

2017
02:14:21,560 --> 02:14:22,640
completely irrational.

2018
02:14:23,359 --> 02:14:24,039
Speaker 5: I don't like it.

2019
02:14:27,880 --> 02:14:31,800
Speaker 1: Anyone who's had a basic philosophy class would know that

2020
02:14:31,920 --> 02:14:34,520
to respond to a question about an epistemic standard. But

2021
02:14:34,640 --> 02:14:39,920
with saying I don't like it is childish? Is Richard

2022
02:14:39,960 --> 02:14:43,319
Dawkins a seventeen year old on Reddit or an accomplished

2023
02:14:43,399 --> 02:14:44,319
global academic.

2024
02:14:45,079 --> 02:14:48,600
Speaker 5: That question is open because you might ask yourself, what

2025
02:14:48,800 --> 02:14:52,560
did Christianity get right that led it away from those

2026
02:14:52,680 --> 02:14:56,000
particular presumptions and towards something that you regard is more

2027
02:14:56,039 --> 02:14:58,920
ethically appropriate, Like this isn't a trivial question, it's a.

2028
02:15:00,520 --> 02:15:01,600
Speaker 7: And it's not very much.

2029
02:15:01,960 --> 02:15:07,479
Speaker 1: I mean, Richard Dalwatkins, that's funny to.

2030
02:15:07,600 --> 02:15:10,159
Speaker 6: Be better than a religion that throws gay people off

2031
02:15:10,239 --> 02:15:10,800
high buildings.

2032
02:15:10,840 --> 02:15:12,000
Speaker 7: They're not really a very.

2033
02:15:12,720 --> 02:15:15,600
Speaker 1: Okay, what's the basis for any of that being wrong? Richard?

2034
02:15:16,319 --> 02:15:17,079
Speaker 3: Of course it is.

2035
02:15:17,479 --> 02:15:18,199
Speaker 5: I don't like it.

2036
02:15:19,720 --> 02:15:21,359
Speaker 1: Maybe it's because you get thrown off a building.

2037
02:15:21,479 --> 02:15:24,079
Speaker 7: Oh, virtuous achievement.

2038
02:15:25,079 --> 02:15:25,520
Speaker 6: I don't know.

2039
02:15:25,680 --> 02:15:28,159
Speaker 5: I don't know if that's true, because if you look

2040
02:15:28,279 --> 02:15:32,239
at the barbarism that characterizes the human past, you might

2041
02:15:32,319 --> 02:15:36,680
think that any progression whatsoever towards something approximating mercy and

2042
02:15:36,720 --> 02:15:39,479
tolerance is nothing short of a bloody miracle. Well, like

2043
02:15:39,680 --> 02:15:44,319
people are pretty pretty ruthless, and so are our chimpanzee cousins. Yes,

2044
02:15:44,359 --> 02:15:47,560
they are right, So we move forward into the light

2045
02:15:47,680 --> 02:15:50,279
with great difficulty. And the fact that we can take

2046
02:15:50,359 --> 02:15:53,119
that for granted now, and that it seems self evident

2047
02:15:53,239 --> 02:15:56,680
and deserving of faint praise, it's not so clear to

2048
02:15:56,760 --> 02:15:59,159
me that that that's a reasonable proposition.

2049
02:15:59,239 --> 02:16:03,159
Speaker 6: Okay, let's grants of the faint praise, But that has

2050
02:16:03,199 --> 02:16:04,840
nothing to do with the truth value. And what I

2051
02:16:04,920 --> 02:16:07,479
care about is the truth value. I see no truth

2052
02:16:07,640 --> 02:16:11,720
value in the claims of Christianity, the virgin birth, the resurrection,

2053
02:16:12,239 --> 02:16:12,880
the miracles.

2054
02:16:12,960 --> 02:16:14,039
Speaker 7: Do believe in any of those?

2055
02:16:17,359 --> 02:16:20,880
Speaker 1: Now, this is where the rubber meets the road, right,

2056
02:16:20,880 --> 02:16:25,000
And I think, unfortunately, this is where doctor Jordan Peterson

2057
02:16:25,920 --> 02:16:31,319
has a hard time explicating exactly why why we ought

2058
02:16:31,359 --> 02:16:35,840
to choose these stories if they're not real, or if

2059
02:16:35,920 --> 02:16:39,600
they are just merely sort of they're like crime and punishment, right,

2060
02:16:39,639 --> 02:16:44,559
They're like Raskolnikov, They're Dostoevsky level stuff. Maybe they're more

2061
02:16:44,600 --> 02:16:49,479
important than Dostievsky. But if they're just stories like crime

2062
02:16:49,559 --> 02:16:52,719
and punishment, even though they are real in the sense

2063
02:16:52,799 --> 02:16:58,680
of the principles and the meanings applying archetypally everywhere, this

2064
02:16:58,840 --> 02:17:00,520
is going to be a significant challenge.

2065
02:17:03,319 --> 02:17:05,399
Speaker 7: Do you believe Jesus was born in virgin.

2066
02:17:08,520 --> 02:17:11,040
Speaker 5: As I said before, there are elements of the text

2067
02:17:11,159 --> 02:17:14,959
that I don't feel qualified to comment on my experiences,

2068
02:17:15,079 --> 02:17:18,639
being that the more I know from a metaphorical perspective

2069
02:17:18,680 --> 02:17:21,040
and from a mythic perspective what the story of the

2070
02:17:21,120 --> 02:17:24,520
virgin birth means, and I accept that, I know, for example,

2071
02:17:24,600 --> 02:17:28,200
that any culture that doesn't hold the image of the

2072
02:17:28,879 --> 02:17:33,200
woman and infant sacred dies, and I don't know how

2073
02:17:33,280 --> 02:17:33,879
that needs to be.

2074
02:17:37,200 --> 02:17:41,799
Speaker 1: Well, of course that's not exactly what the virgin birth means.

2075
02:17:42,639 --> 02:17:48,280
You could extrapolate that, yes, the virgin birth and the

2076
02:17:48,399 --> 02:17:54,360
Theotokos and the Son of God have a meaning which

2077
02:17:54,399 --> 02:18:00,159
applies to the sanctity of life in birth everywhere, and

2078
02:18:00,600 --> 02:18:04,079
preserving the chastity of your young maidens, and I mean,

2079
02:18:04,120 --> 02:18:07,120
you could extrapolate all those, but that's not ultimately the

2080
02:18:07,399 --> 02:18:11,600
redemptive historical meaning of the virgin birth. The virgin birth,

2081
02:18:11,840 --> 02:18:18,920
redemptive historically speaking, is the reversal of Adam and Eve's fall.

2082
02:18:19,680 --> 02:18:24,200
So Mary is the new Eve, clear as day. That's

2083
02:18:24,280 --> 02:18:27,319
the redemptive meaning of the virgin birth, and that Christ

2084
02:18:27,520 --> 02:18:31,319
is thus not subject to the passions and subject to

2085
02:18:31,760 --> 02:18:35,719
the fall. He is in fact the new Atom, and

2086
02:18:35,879 --> 02:18:40,680
he has a pure nature, unfallen, just like Adam and

2087
02:18:40,719 --> 02:18:44,200
Eve had before the fall. That's the purpose of the

2088
02:18:44,319 --> 02:18:49,319
virgin birth to then counteract Adam's transgression and to heal

2089
02:18:49,479 --> 02:18:53,920
and create a new humanity. But if you only limit

2090
02:18:54,120 --> 02:19:01,399
this story to level three, the most important, which needs

2091
02:19:01,520 --> 02:19:05,719
one and two, and by extension three and four right

2092
02:19:06,120 --> 02:19:11,840
fall apart. So again it's it only goes so far

2093
02:19:12,479 --> 02:19:14,920
to have an inroad with an atheist with level three,

2094
02:19:15,719 --> 02:19:19,319
it can work. It's it's a practical thing that I

2095
02:19:19,399 --> 02:19:22,040
think does work, and we've seen that born out by

2096
02:19:22,079 --> 02:19:27,040
how many people, as we said, leave atheism through the

2097
02:19:27,680 --> 02:19:31,319
archetypal stuff that Peterson talks about, which is layer three.

2098
02:19:32,440 --> 02:19:36,399
But the Bible and the meaning of these things is

2099
02:19:36,559 --> 02:19:40,520
not just layer level three, And here Dawkins, who has

2100
02:19:40,559 --> 02:19:45,040
no idea about any of those, is maybe inadvertently hitting

2101
02:19:45,159 --> 02:19:48,600
on the key point, which is, yeah, but you can't

2102
02:19:48,719 --> 02:19:49,799
just have layer three.

2103
02:19:50,239 --> 02:19:53,959
Speaker 5: Right rested form.

2104
02:19:54,559 --> 02:19:55,360
Speaker 8: Do you mean that you don't know?

2105
02:19:56,479 --> 02:19:58,959
Speaker 5: Let me let me ask you about that, because truth,

2106
02:19:59,040 --> 02:20:01,840
this is something I talk with Sam Harris about too. Truth,

2107
02:20:01,920 --> 02:20:04,319
as we know, is a tricky business. Do you think

2108
02:20:04,399 --> 02:20:07,840
there are differences in the truth claims between different writers

2109
02:20:07,920 --> 02:20:11,799
of fiction, Like it's Dostoevsky more profound.

2110
02:20:11,479 --> 02:20:15,200
Speaker 7: Then well, I wouldn't call fiction truth claims anyway. I

2111
02:20:15,239 --> 02:20:17,159
mean he's then on.

2112
02:20:17,319 --> 02:20:20,120
Speaker 5: What grounds do we rank order the fiction in terms

2113
02:20:20,159 --> 02:20:25,000
of quality? Like Dostievsky's a profound purveyor of fiction on

2114
02:20:25,079 --> 02:20:29,159
the philosophical front, unbelievably deep and profound. There's something true

2115
02:20:29,200 --> 02:20:30,440
about what he's writing about.

2116
02:20:30,879 --> 02:20:33,959
Speaker 6: It's nothing to do with the truth, the truth that

2117
02:20:34,159 --> 02:20:35,239
science is concerned with.

2118
02:20:35,319 --> 02:20:42,399
Speaker 1: The uh, well I have to give Although Jordan Peterson

2119
02:20:42,600 --> 02:20:49,040
is not going to do well. I don't think in

2120
02:20:49,159 --> 02:20:52,440
answering this fundamental issue, because this is the CrOx issue,

2121
02:20:53,319 --> 02:20:56,879
he is, as a side point, demonstrating the stupidity of

2122
02:20:57,000 --> 02:21:01,840
Richard Dawkins that Dawkins is so unedgic and such a

2123
02:21:02,159 --> 02:21:07,440
soy scientism man that he thinks that some masterpiece like

2124
02:21:07,559 --> 02:21:11,000
Crime and Punishment from Dostoevsky, because Peterson's absolutely correct here

2125
02:21:11,520 --> 02:21:15,239
that it doesn't have truth claims because it has nothing

2126
02:21:15,280 --> 02:21:18,319
to do with what science is concerned with. I mean,

2127
02:21:18,399 --> 02:21:21,639
does this man really exists. He's almost like a caricature

2128
02:21:21,760 --> 02:21:24,879
of what you would make up about a scientism man.

2129
02:21:25,520 --> 02:21:29,920
Like he's so unfeeling and unhuman that he doesn't realize

2130
02:21:30,440 --> 02:21:36,319
that Dostoyevsky's books encapsulate and tell way more about life

2131
02:21:36,440 --> 02:21:41,559
and humanity than your dumb ass science books. This man

2132
02:21:41,680 --> 02:21:45,719
is pitiful. He really should be pitied. I mean to

2133
02:21:45,799 --> 02:21:50,479
say something this just outright stupid that, first of all,

2134
02:21:51,159 --> 02:21:53,600
just because it's a novel, of course it can have

2135
02:21:53,639 --> 02:21:56,040
a truth claim. How stupid is that to think that

2136
02:21:56,159 --> 02:21:58,959
a novel doesn't have truth claims? Why would you think

2137
02:21:59,040 --> 02:22:03,479
that that's fool So this guy is like literally a midwit.

2138
02:22:05,799 --> 02:22:10,319
Richard Dawkins is straight up a midwit because any educated

2139
02:22:10,399 --> 02:22:17,639
person would know of the value of Dostoevsky. But to

2140
02:22:17,719 --> 02:22:20,479
say something so foolish that well, it's not concerned with

2141
02:22:20,600 --> 02:22:23,280
what science is concerned with. First of all, it actually

2142
02:22:23,360 --> 02:22:27,479
it could be you could have a science of great writers.

2143
02:22:28,079 --> 02:22:29,680
For example, I had a friend who sent me an

2144
02:22:29,760 --> 02:22:33,280
article some years back, maybe in New York Times, I

2145
02:22:33,319 --> 02:22:35,879
don't know, and they were talking about how people who

2146
02:22:36,079 --> 02:22:39,319
were very well versed in Dostoevsky novels, when they would

2147
02:22:39,360 --> 02:22:43,159
read Dostoevsky novels and really penetrate and get the meaning

2148
02:22:43,239 --> 02:22:45,959
of it, chew on it, that it lit up more

2149
02:22:46,200 --> 02:22:49,879
centers of their brain than when they read any other

2150
02:22:50,000 --> 02:22:56,000
type of thing, including scientism, man's boring ass books.

2151
02:22:57,319 --> 02:22:57,879
Speaker 2: Why is that?

2152
02:22:58,600 --> 02:23:02,959
Speaker 1: Because ski novel is functioning on so many different layers

2153
02:23:03,000 --> 02:23:05,239
and levels, and you have so many different characters that

2154
02:23:05,280 --> 02:23:08,079
you're keeping up with and their motivations and getting in

2155
02:23:08,159 --> 02:23:11,040
the thought and the mindset of those characters, that it

2156
02:23:11,280 --> 02:23:13,920
causes the whole brain to do like the meme and

2157
02:23:14,040 --> 02:23:18,000
basically go lit. But this goober has no knowledge of that,

2158
02:23:18,200 --> 02:23:22,680
because he's basically functioning like an am antelope. He's like

2159
02:23:22,799 --> 02:23:28,239
a reptile brain himself, which is like lower base MIDWIP level.

2160
02:23:29,600 --> 02:23:32,600
I'm not kidding now. But what does that demonstrate, Well,

2161
02:23:32,639 --> 02:23:36,840
that's a scientific measuring of people who read and study

2162
02:23:36,920 --> 02:23:40,760
Dostoevsky novels and their brain lighting up better than if

2163
02:23:40,760 --> 02:23:42,000
they read your dumbass book.

2164
02:23:42,680 --> 02:23:44,879
Speaker 2: So you could actually do a science.

2165
02:23:47,239 --> 02:23:49,879
Speaker 1: Of literary studies and their effects on the brain.

2166
02:23:50,040 --> 02:23:54,479
Speaker 6: Goufus truth of science, and it is the truth that

2167
02:23:54,600 --> 02:23:56,639
gets us to the moon. I mean this has nothing

2168
02:23:56,680 --> 02:24:01,479
to do with with a One writer of fiction has

2169
02:24:01,520 --> 02:24:04,360
a sort of insight into human nature that goes without

2170
02:24:04,440 --> 02:24:05,239
saying I accept that.

2171
02:24:05,440 --> 02:24:07,559
Speaker 5: Okay, So how do we deal with the notion that

2172
02:24:08,520 --> 02:24:11,120
on the purely factual side, how do we deal with

2173
02:24:11,239 --> 02:24:14,799
the idea Let's take the note you talked about clitoridectomy.

2174
02:24:14,879 --> 02:24:17,360
Let's talk about the oppression of women. Yes, we make

2175
02:24:17,440 --> 02:24:20,559
a scientific case that that's inappropriate, or is it the

2176
02:24:20,639 --> 02:24:22,479
case that we're making on some other grounds?

2177
02:24:22,719 --> 02:24:26,159
Speaker 1: Like I see, on what basis is this goofball who,

2178
02:24:26,719 --> 02:24:30,799
if he's a consistent atheist, should believe in depopulation human

2179
02:24:31,280 --> 02:24:34,479
population reduction. Oh but he cares about the status of

2180
02:24:34,559 --> 02:24:38,559
women and their cltorus getting cut off. Uh huh, yeah,

2181
02:24:38,559 --> 02:24:41,079
I bet you do. I bet you really care about that, Richard.

2182
02:24:41,719 --> 02:24:47,600
Let's see Dawkins's statements on population because I don't know,

2183
02:24:47,760 --> 02:24:50,719
but I'm guessing isn't Dawkins out of the Royal society circles.

2184
02:25:02,760 --> 02:25:03,440
Speaker 5: He has to be.

2185
02:25:05,639 --> 02:25:15,559
Speaker 1: A proponent of this. It looks like he is. So

2186
02:25:15,719 --> 02:25:22,879
here's articles fussing about his tweets. Let's see what this is.

2187
02:25:30,959 --> 02:25:32,760
Where's the Dawkins shit? I don't want to read all that.

2188
02:25:37,120 --> 02:25:41,479
Dawkins sparked controversy when he tweeted that eugenics would work

2189
02:25:41,520 --> 02:25:48,280
in practice. Well, of course that last year, eleven thousand

2190
02:25:48,319 --> 02:25:57,040
scientists signed a statement urging population reduction. Of course, Dawkins

2191
02:25:57,120 --> 02:26:03,719
and eugenics advocates for reducing undesirable populations. Well, there we go.

2192
02:26:06,120 --> 02:26:09,920
Speaker 3: As a scientist, I respond, what are the facts?

2193
02:26:11,399 --> 02:26:16,719
Speaker 1: Okay? Why ought we reduce them? Richard? That's an aught. Okay.

2194
02:26:16,840 --> 02:26:21,319
So Dawkins believes, apparently in obviously population control. So now

2195
02:26:21,360 --> 02:26:26,719
wait a minute. So he's for abraution reducing the population,

2196
02:26:27,440 --> 02:26:33,200
but he cares about women's clatoruses being cut off. I

2197
02:26:33,319 --> 02:26:34,719
bet he does, sure, now.

2198
02:26:35,000 --> 02:26:37,920
Speaker 5: Judeo Christian tradition, one of the earliest pronouncements is that

2199
02:26:38,440 --> 02:26:41,600
both men and women carry the image of God both

2200
02:26:42,319 --> 02:26:46,559
and that sets a certain tone to everything that follows.

2201
02:26:46,600 --> 02:26:51,239
And it is a remarkable proclamation given its radical age,

2202
02:26:51,639 --> 02:26:54,799
that both men and women are carry the image of

2203
02:26:54,840 --> 02:26:57,239
God and are to be treated as something with intrinsic

2204
02:26:57,360 --> 02:27:00,559
value outside of the domain of power and politics. And

2205
02:27:00,680 --> 02:27:03,040
it isn't obvious to me, It isn't obvious to me,

2206
02:27:03,559 --> 02:27:05,879
having thought about this a lot, how we deal with

2207
02:27:06,000 --> 02:27:08,399
that in the pure realm of fact. Because one of

2208
02:27:08,440 --> 02:27:10,959
the facts is if I can oppress you, why the

2209
02:27:11,079 --> 02:27:11,840
hell shouldn't I?

2210
02:27:12,280 --> 02:27:13,799
Speaker 8: And my job is to keep things on track. Hit

2211
02:27:13,840 --> 02:27:16,399
I think there are a number of questions which fessidalcins

2212
02:27:16,479 --> 02:27:18,680
is offked quite directly, that we still haven't really heard

2213
02:27:18,719 --> 02:27:19,120
an answer.

2214
02:27:21,680 --> 02:27:32,159
Speaker 1: Ah. So when Peterson brings the heat, skittles O'Connor steps

2215
02:27:32,200 --> 02:27:36,079
in here to deflect the way. So here is the

2216
02:27:36,200 --> 02:27:39,840
crux of the issue, where Peterson's going to actually ask

2217
02:27:39,920 --> 02:27:46,440
the question which we're waiting for, Hell shouldn't I? The

2218
02:27:46,520 --> 02:27:49,360
fact is that I can oppress you. Why shouldn't I

2219
02:27:49,399 --> 02:27:52,799
appress you? Why shouldn't I be? The queensants hotter rock Right,

2220
02:27:53,840 --> 02:28:01,559
These hypocritical, inconsistent, atheist goofballs who are always touting their

2221
02:28:01,680 --> 02:28:06,559
soy morality and how ethical they are have no basis

2222
02:28:06,639 --> 02:28:09,600
for their ethics. It's so annoying. And then they try

2223
02:28:09,639 --> 02:28:12,360
to pontificate, and they go around and around in circles

2224
02:28:12,360 --> 02:28:15,559
all day long about how much they hate theism and

2225
02:28:15,559 --> 02:28:17,319
all this kind of stuff, and they have absolutely no

2226
02:28:17,399 --> 02:28:20,440
basis for ethics and they know it. And so he

2227
02:28:20,600 --> 02:28:22,799
knows exactly where this discussion is going, and so he

2228
02:28:23,000 --> 02:28:25,399
deflects and tries to shut this question down.

2229
02:28:25,520 --> 02:28:26,920
Speaker 8: Job is to keep things on track here. I think

2230
02:28:26,920 --> 02:28:27,879
there are a number of questions.

2231
02:28:27,920 --> 02:28:31,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, things are on track, village person cop.

2232
02:28:32,040 --> 02:28:34,719
Speaker 8: Which Professor Dolkins has asked quite directly that we still

2233
02:28:34,719 --> 02:28:35,680
haven't really heard an answer.

2234
02:28:35,799 --> 02:28:37,600
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, Profess.

2235
02:28:37,879 --> 02:28:42,479
Speaker 8: Alex O Komer is so annoying, dude, asking about the

2236
02:28:42,559 --> 02:28:45,440
virgin birth. You started talking about mesophol, you started talking

2237
02:28:45,479 --> 02:28:47,879
about myth. I think anybody listening to this conversation will

2238
02:28:48,000 --> 02:28:51,719
understand that maybe a society that doesn't believe in the

2239
02:28:51,799 --> 02:28:54,680
virgin birth won't work. Maybe that's the predictive power that

2240
02:28:54,719 --> 02:28:58,079
you're talking about. But I think you must understand that

2241
02:28:58,200 --> 02:29:00,520
when Professor Dilkins is asking you do you believe that

2242
02:29:00,600 --> 02:29:03,040
Jesus was born of a virgin, he means something like

2243
02:29:03,120 --> 02:29:05,399
a biological fact, And by the way, it's saying I

2244
02:29:05,520 --> 02:29:07,680
don't know or saying, you know, I'm not qualified to

2245
02:29:07,760 --> 02:29:10,799
comment is an answer to that question. But is that

2246
02:29:10,879 --> 02:29:12,200
your answer that you that you don't know?

2247
02:29:12,479 --> 02:29:14,760
Speaker 5: I said earlier, and I would hold it.

2248
02:29:17,959 --> 02:29:20,680
Speaker 1: Did you catch how stupid that was? He said, there

2249
02:29:20,760 --> 02:29:24,239
was a number of questions that weren't answered, such as

2250
02:29:24,959 --> 02:29:28,879
Richard Dawkins asking you do you believe in the virgin birth?

2251
02:29:29,360 --> 02:29:31,280
And then he says, and you answered, I don't know,

2252
02:29:31,360 --> 02:29:35,239
which is an answer? Is that your answer? I mean,

2253
02:29:35,680 --> 02:29:41,040
obviously that was a stupid deflection from Peterson's question, because

2254
02:29:41,079 --> 02:29:46,040
that goofball just admitted that the answer already given was

2255
02:29:46,079 --> 02:29:49,479
an answer, and then he re asked the same answer

2256
02:29:49,680 --> 02:29:55,239
or the same question is how does any how does

2257
02:29:55,280 --> 02:29:58,559
this guy have an audience? By the way, remember when

2258
02:29:58,639 --> 02:30:01,319
we covered his debates years ago, and he said that

2259
02:30:02,159 --> 02:30:04,959
he asked the way that he knew it wasn't it

2260
02:30:04,959 --> 02:30:07,639
about quantum shit or some bull crap? And he said,

2261
02:30:07,920 --> 02:30:10,879
I have a really smart friend at Oxford And he

2262
02:30:11,040 --> 02:30:13,239
told me that was his answer.

2263
02:30:14,000 --> 02:30:16,159
Speaker 5: I know a smart I know a guy like what

2264
02:30:16,879 --> 02:30:18,959
this is that there are elements of the text that

2265
02:30:19,159 --> 02:30:24,040
I don't know how to that I'm incapable of fully

2266
02:30:24,079 --> 02:30:29,200
accounting for. I can't account for what the what the

2267
02:30:29,360 --> 02:30:32,680
fundamental reality and significance of the notion of the resurrection is.

2268
02:30:32,760 --> 02:30:36,680
My knowledge just ends. But I know that whatever happened,

2269
02:30:37,360 --> 02:30:38,479
whatever happened, as it.

2270
02:30:40,399 --> 02:30:46,360
Speaker 1: Well, I'm surprised that the amount of discussions that Pageoe

2271
02:30:46,399 --> 02:30:48,600
and Peterson have had. I mean, you know that Pageot

2272
02:30:48,680 --> 02:30:55,440
has has to have explained this probably many times. And

2273
02:30:55,559 --> 02:30:59,559
even if Peterson doesn't necessarily believe it, like he's not,

2274
02:30:59,639 --> 02:31:02,280
you're not aware of the significance of the resurrection. I mean,

2275
02:31:05,120 --> 02:31:06,680
that's that's an odd statement.

2276
02:31:07,000 --> 02:31:09,959
Speaker 5: Quince of the origination and the promotion of the Christian

2277
02:31:10,040 --> 02:31:12,520
story was powerful enough to bring Rome to its knees

2278
02:31:12,719 --> 02:31:16,319
and demolish the pagan enterprise. So there's some power in

2279
02:31:16,440 --> 02:31:19,000
that story that's remarkable to.

2280
02:31:19,040 --> 02:31:19,719
Speaker 7: The Virgin Book.

2281
02:31:19,799 --> 02:31:23,639
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, well, the Virgin Books results from a mistranslation

2282
02:31:23,719 --> 02:31:24,239
of Isaiah.

2283
02:31:24,399 --> 02:31:24,760
Speaker 7: You know that.

2284
02:31:25,799 --> 02:31:28,479
Speaker 5: I'm like these sorts of questions.

2285
02:31:30,200 --> 02:31:36,440
Speaker 1: It's not a mistranslation of Aziah. Remember this is the

2286
02:31:36,479 --> 02:31:40,920
same guy who by the way, I'm Richard Dawkins. Do

2287
02:31:41,000 --> 02:31:43,040
you have a degree in Hebrew? Do you have a

2288
02:31:43,120 --> 02:31:44,000
degree in Greek?

2289
02:31:45,120 --> 02:31:45,200
Speaker 7: Oh?

2290
02:31:45,280 --> 02:31:49,799
Speaker 1: Wait, you expect credentials. You have none of these credentials,

2291
02:31:49,920 --> 02:31:53,239
Yet you're a textual scholar who knows that Isaiah at

2292
02:31:53,399 --> 02:31:56,559
seven is mistranslated. And by the way, no, it's not

2293
02:31:57,159 --> 02:31:59,760
depends on whether you follow the Jews or whether you

2294
02:31:59,840 --> 02:32:02,760
follow the septuagen So if you believe the Septui agent

2295
02:32:02,879 --> 02:32:07,520
like the Orthodox Church does, it's not mistranslated. And on

2296
02:32:07,639 --> 02:32:09,840
what authority do you know? By the way, which techs

2297
02:32:09,879 --> 02:32:13,600
are authoritative and which ones aren't. Of course they have

2298
02:32:13,760 --> 02:32:18,000
no that's way out of their domain. But notice the

2299
02:32:20,840 --> 02:32:23,239
I think what happens too when you get to be

2300
02:32:23,399 --> 02:32:25,600
say like a Richard Dawkins level, when you're probably like

2301
02:32:25,639 --> 02:32:29,000
the most you know, when you're in the top five

2302
02:32:29,559 --> 02:32:33,879
most prominent atheist type people in the world, you're not

2303
02:32:34,879 --> 02:32:39,959
typically in the presence of anybody that would significantly challenge

2304
02:32:40,000 --> 02:32:45,159
you very much. That is very rare, and so you

2305
02:32:45,399 --> 02:32:51,399
just assume, I guess that you're on the money. Like

2306
02:32:51,520 --> 02:32:53,959
when you're making basic mistakes and you have no idea

2307
02:32:54,000 --> 02:32:54,760
what you're talking about.

2308
02:32:56,079 --> 02:32:58,440
Speaker 5: It's for what would you say? They don't They don't

2309
02:32:58,479 --> 02:33:03,559
strike me as they're not getting to the point that's

2310
02:33:03,639 --> 02:33:08,040
the purpose. Well, look, I understand that there's perfect reasons

2311
02:33:08,079 --> 02:33:10,159
to debate this. I know that, and I know that

2312
02:33:10,280 --> 02:33:13,559
your question is more than valid, but it's beside the

2313
02:33:13,639 --> 02:33:13,959
issue