WEBVTT 1 00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:16.600 You are listening to the com Frandie Christianity podcast, the 2 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:21.359 first episode of twenty twenty five. I really forget what 3 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:23.359 season this is. It might be fourth or fifth, I 4 00:00:23.359 --> 00:00:25.679 don't know. Anyway, it's twenty twenty five. I do know that, 5 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:30.519 and I'm here with a fellow Brit, Rachel Jones. Hi, Rachel, Hello, 6 00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:34.159 that was far too enthusiastic for a Brit. Britz are 7 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:37.159 not meant to whoop like that. Control yourself. 8 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:40.039 I'm channeling my inner American. 9 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:43.280 My husband Brian always says he thinks that I'm American 10 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:45.719 on the inside because I'm far too kind of enthusiastic 11 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:48.920 and open and all the things to be properly English. 12 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:53.079 But I have a pretty solidly English track record and 13 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:56.679 sort of crust at least. Rachel, for those who don't 14 00:00:56.759 --> 00:01:00.119 yet know her, is an editor at The Good Book Company, 15 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:05.159 which is a company that produces good books. I can 16 00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:07.519 vouch for that, based in the UK, but also in 17 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:09.760 the US. Is that right? Sort of both sides of. 18 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:12.519 The pond, Yeah, teams in both sides, Yeah, lovely. 19 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:16.159 I have a couple of times written books for the 20 00:01:16.519 --> 00:01:18.439 Good Book Company. I've hat three times now that I 21 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:21.120 think about it. And every time Rachel's been my editor 22 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:25.319 and she's been excellent, outstanding editor there. And she has 23 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:29.280 also written books herself, including a book called is This It? 24 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:33.079 Which is a sort of about how to think about 25 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:36.040 quarter life crisis from a Christian perspective? Is that fair 26 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:36.920 to say? 27 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:40.879 How to be an adult right from a Christian perspective? 28 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:42.959 It's got big avocado on the front. I love that 29 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:45.040 that was about when millennials were the thing that now 30 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:48.439 I guess it's the day of gen Z's so whole 31 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:51.000 gen Z's. I don't know what fruit they'd have on 32 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:51.319 the front. 33 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:53.400 Yeah, I love that in England it's gen Z because 34 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:56.000 I'm so used to hearing gen Z here. Also, I'm 35 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.359 continually arguing with our mutual friend Rachel Gilson about whether 36 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:04.560 I am a millennial or a gen X because by 37 00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:07.799 some calculations, millennials start in nineteen eighty and I just 38 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:10.240 squeak into nineteen eighty, but by others they don't. So 39 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:12.680 she's always like, no, you're solidly gen X. What's wrong 40 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:14.000 with you? And I'm like, no, no, no, but look 41 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:18.159 at all the avocado toasts that I eat religiously. Anyway, 42 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:19.960 that's not what we're talking about today, we are talking 43 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:23.520 instead about Rachel's new book, which is called The Quiet 44 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:28.439 Time Kickstart Six Weeks to a Healthy Bible Habit. I 45 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:31.599 love this the book cover. Not that you should judge 46 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:33.080 a book by its cover, but I just want people 47 00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:35.400 to know, especially as this is a podcast, people probably 48 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:36.759 can't see the cover. I'm going to hold it up 49 00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:38.680 in case I have a clip mix and what's the 50 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:41.000 way on to social media. It's got a really fun 51 00:02:41.560 --> 00:02:46.719 cover that suggests the sort of beginning small and growing 52 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:49.599 over time is what I'm taking away from that. And 53 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:52.639 I'd love to hear first Rachel, kind of what motivated 54 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:54.639 you to want to write a little bit like this, 55 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:57.439 and also what on earth is a quiet time? For 56 00:02:57.479 --> 00:02:59.919 those who are less familiar with that particular piece of 57 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:01.840 Christian jargon, Yeah, it's a. 58 00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:04.240 Weird it's a weird phrase. So quiet time is this 59 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:07.080 idea that, Yeah, as a Christian, as a follower of Jesus, 60 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:10.960 each day you set aside a chunk of time, I 61 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:14.560 don't know, fifteen minutes, half an hour to read Bible 62 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:17.479 and to pray. And I would say, if you've like 63 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:20.479 grown up going to church or have been around churches, 64 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:24.919 a while, you probably have this impression that, like having 65 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:26.800 a quiet time is a thing you're meant to do, 66 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:29.599 it's a thing that it's a thing that Christians do, 67 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:32.759 and you know, often, you know, there's a sort of 68 00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:35.000 a joke or a trope or whatever that you know, 69 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:37.800 like every every talk at youth group ends with the 70 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:41.879 application that you need to reach a Bible and tell 71 00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:44.599 your friends about Jesus. And that's kind of where we start. 72 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:49.159 But it is a helpful thing to do. But it's 73 00:03:49.240 --> 00:03:52.080 a thing actually that quietly, quite a lot of Christians 74 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:54.439 aren't doing a lot of a lot of my friends, 75 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:57.039 you know, a lot of people at my church. They 76 00:03:57.080 --> 00:04:00.560 have this sense that they're meant to be in the Bible. 77 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:02.960 They want to read the Bible and pray each day, 78 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:06.360 but it's just not part of their routine. And so 79 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:08.800 it really grew out of that observation and what would 80 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:11.319 what would a resource look like that would help people 81 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:14.280 who wanted to develop that habit to actually do that. 82 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:17.560 And the inspiration really came from the couch to five 83 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:20.079 K program. I don't know, do you have that there? 84 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:22.240 I think so, I haven't done it personally, but yeah, 85 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:24.040 I think it's I think it's something over here as well, 86 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:27.360 a sort of exercise beginning to exercise routine. 87 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:30.000 Yeah, so it's like this app and it helps you 88 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:33.040 go from couch potato to someone who can run five k. 89 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:36.600 And so it starts small and then you build up, 90 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:40.240 so your first run you're not kind of running solidly, 91 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:42.560 you know. It tells you to run for sixty seconds 92 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:44.759 and then you like walk for ninety seconds, and you've 93 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:48.920 got like this celebrity coach in your ear who's like saying, yeah, 94 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:51.839 you can do it, and you sort of gradually, you know, 95 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:54.720 you gradually increase the amount of jogging you do and 96 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:58.160 like reduce the rest times you have until like you're 97 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:02.279 running for like thirty minutes. And I had done touch 98 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:05.600 five k. Like family members at Christmas, you know, and 99 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:08.120 everyone's like vegging out on the sofa on like the 100 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:11.439 twenty eighth of December, and you know, my sister would 101 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:13.399 go up for a run and then she'd just come 102 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:17.839 back as like this whole new person. And I say, 103 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:21.639 but it's really hard to develop a habit like that. 104 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:24.759 It's really hard to sort of know where to start 105 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:27.120 or how to get there. And I figured that for 106 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:29.959 lots of people It's pretty similar with this kind of 107 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:32.560 discipline of reading the Bible and having a time to pray. 108 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:34.839 You kind of want to do it, but it's hard 109 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:37.439 to develop the habit. So in the same way, this 110 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:40.680 little booklet, it's got readings that you do each day, 111 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:43.279 and they start really small, just with like a couple 112 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:46.720 of sentences, and then they build up and kind of 113 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:50.439 gradually kind of increasing the time that you're spending. And yeah, 114 00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:53.040 I'm the one saying, WHOA, you can do it and 115 00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:56.160 kind of helping people, giving people pointers as to how 116 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:58.040 to understand scripture as they go. 117 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:00.680 That's Richard. Now the second time you've whooped on this podcast, 118 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:05.519 and I'm increasingly concerned about you. Yeah, I really like 119 00:06:05.560 --> 00:06:09.560 this this analogy to exercise, because my guess is for 120 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:14.000 folks who are listening, regardless of how they would identify religiously, 121 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:16.560 that probably all of us know that we should be exercising, 122 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:19.319 that that's something that you know, healthy people do, and 123 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:22.360 that even there's a there's a whole narrative around the 124 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:24.439 fact that if you exercise actually makes you happy, that 125 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:26.639 there are sort of I don't know, and orphans firing 126 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:29.839 off or whatever when you exercise and that even though 127 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:34.480 we might have a mental barrier to exercise because it 128 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:37.519 takes effort and it's often more comfortable sitting on the 129 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:40.160 couch than it is, you know, running down the street, 130 00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:43.519 that there is going to be this kind of payoff 131 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:46.079 in terms of not only our like overall long term 132 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:49.959 physical health, but also even people who exercise tend to 133 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:54.839 have sort of less LIGHTLYHD depression and better kind of 134 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:57.240 overall happiness and mental health and physical health and kind 135 00:06:57.279 --> 00:06:59.040 of all the all the things. So it's like it's 136 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:01.360 something that's can be hard for us to implement, but 137 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:03.879 we know that there is this sort of promised land 138 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:07.680 of betterness on the other side of it. Yeah, and 139 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:09.920 that it's not just about like, Okay, you know, let's 140 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:12.439 go to the gym one day and exercise our hearts 141 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:14.079 out and then sort of exhausted for a month and 142 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:17.040 never do it again. It's there's something about the consistent 143 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:21.040 rhythm of exercise that is what really makes the difference, 144 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:23.680 rather than just kind of the daily sort of a 145 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:28.839 random burst that doesn't follow through to consistency. Is that true? Also, 146 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:32.079 would you say of Bible reading and kind of prayer time, 147 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:35.279 This this sort of mysterious quiet time that that we're 148 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:36.240 talking about in this book. 149 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:39.279 Yeah, I would say so definitely, and that especially that 150 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:43.920 idea that the benefits are reaped not just kind of 151 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:48.040 in that one moment, but through having that consistent habit 152 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:52.240 that you sort of are yeah, growing, growing in wisdom 153 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:56.800 and kind of spiritual health in a way that yeah, 154 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:01.160 you you you know, the results aren't always instant, and 155 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:03.920 as you say, like it's always it's it's often easier 156 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:08.560 to do something else, but that Yeah, the Bible promises that, 157 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:12.839 you know, if we are people consistently dwelling in God's 158 00:08:12.839 --> 00:08:16.639 word and and speaking to him in prayer, then then 159 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:19.800 we will find ourselves changed by the process. 160 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:22.480 Well, what do you think is the biggest barrier to 161 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:25.600 getting started when it comes to Bible reading? And when 162 00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:27.879 I say getting started, I don't just mean like opening 163 00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:31.639 the Bible once, but getting started on a Bible reading habit. 164 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:34.120 Yeah, I think there are lots, aren't there. You know 165 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:37.759 you can point to, you know, things like distraction or 166 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:40.039 just our phones or just kind of you know, the 167 00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:42.360 the endorphin hits that we can get so much more 168 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:46.440 easily from other places. But you know, I think you know, 169 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:50.279 most most things stem from the heart, don't they All 170 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.879 things stem from the heart, and not most things. And 171 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:56.200 so I think often it comes down to, you know, 172 00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:58.679 there's there's there's part of us maybe that doesn't want 173 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:02.759 to because of what we're expecting of God and who 174 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:05.480 we what we think he's like, and what we think 175 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:08.200 he'll say. Sometimes I think there's a part of us 176 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:12.360 that thinks we don't need to because of, you know what, 177 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:15.000 what we think about ourselves. And you know, we're generally 178 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:19.000 kind of competent individuals maybe who who who kind of 179 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:21.960 get on with life okay, And sometimes you know, we 180 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:24.240 think that we we can't, you know, And I guess 181 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:26.440 those those are the people who I was really thinking 182 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:30.399 about as I as I wrote this little resource, this 183 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:33.840 idea that the Bible is a big and really intimidating book. 184 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:36.600 You know, how do you how do you even like, yeah, 185 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:39.279 get started where you know which bit, which bit do 186 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:42.240 you read first? And then you read it and it's 187 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:44.960 weird or there's you know, there's people killing each other, 188 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:47.559 or you know, there's there's some there's some odd stuff, 189 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:50.000 and you know, how can I be how can I 190 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:52.679 be confident that you know what what I think it 191 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:55.080 means is really what it means. I meet a lot 192 00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:58.000 of people who kind of have that, that's that fear. 193 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:00.399 So yeah, I think some of the are some of 194 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:03.279 the big barriers to people having a quiet time regularly. 195 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:05.840 Yeah, I think that's I think that's absolutely right. A 196 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:10.039 sense of intimidation, I guess, especially as as often, we'll 197 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:13.159 kind of instinctively start at the beginning, you know, as 198 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:17.440 is it. Maria von Trap puts it in the sound 199 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:19.279 of music. Let's start at the very beginning, A very 200 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:22.720 good place to start. When we begin with ABC, I'm 201 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.720 refraining from singing only just And when we read the Bible, 202 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:29.919 we begin with Genesis chapter one, and I think for 203 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:33.039 a lot of people, you know, Genesis chapter one goes swimmingly, 204 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:37.919 and then chapters sort of two and three start to 205 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:40.679 become a little bit confusing because we have all sort 206 00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:45.200 of stuff about how human beings are made, and people, 207 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:48.759 you know, questions come up about what about relationship between 208 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:51.720 the first woman even the first man, Adam, And then 209 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:56.399 what happens in chapter three we have this serpent coming along, 210 00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:00.159 and there's the curiousness of the Bible starts pretty early on, 211 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:02.759 and people might have a lot of questions, and then 212 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:05.559 I think, you know, as people progress through the narrative, 213 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.639 they might find, you know, Genesis, they see a lot 214 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:14.240 of things described that we would recognize as bad things, 215 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:18.799 and then an exodus. You know, the narrative continues highs 216 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:21.759 and lows, and then by the time we're getting to 217 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:25.720 Leviticus and Numbers and Deuteronomy, the sort of third, fourth, 218 00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:27.360 and fifth books of the Bible, I think people are 219 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:32.080 often kind of come completely unstuck because they're harder to 220 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:34.639 figure out, like, how does this fit into an overall 221 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:37.120 kind of understanding of who God is and how this 222 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:40.519 all works. Would you recommend that people start at the 223 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:43.440 very beginning and work through the Bible from there, or 224 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:46.200 would you recommend that they start with a New Testament 225 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:49.159 and seat of set the Old Testament aside. What are 226 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:50.879 your thoughts on starting points? 227 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.200 Yeah, I guess if I had a friend who was 228 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:56.240 wanting to start reading the Bible, whether they were a 229 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:58.399 Christian or art I would probably recommend they start with 230 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:03.039 the New Testament, just because it's more obvious in some ways, 231 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:05.919 or some bits of it are, and really, you know, 232 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:09.919 the benefit of reading the Bible is that it shows 233 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.919 us the Lord Jesus. I mean, that's what we're that's 234 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:15.360 what we're seeking to do. When we read any bit 235 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.320 of the Bible, including the Old Testament, there's this idea 236 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:21.639 that it's that all of it is pointing to Jesus 237 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:25.000 Christ and what he would come and do. And so yeah, 238 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:27.519 I guess if you if you open up Mark's Gospel, 239 00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:29.759 it's kind of easier to get to the point and 240 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:34.519 see Jesus. Then maybe if you're if you're working through Genesis. 241 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:37.200 So yeah, I think I think if there's someone here, 242 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:40.320 you know, listening, wanted to wanted to start reading the Bible, 243 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:42.320 it might be a good idea to start with one 244 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:44.399 of the gospels. Yeah, yeah, I think. 245 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:47.080 I think that's wise advice that we would maybe stop 246 00:12:47.320 --> 00:12:49.960 in one of the gospels. You reference Mark, which is 247 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.440 the shortest and as far as we can tell, earliest 248 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:54.600 of the gospels to be written down, and they're in 249 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:57.399 the sort of sequencing in the Bible. Matthew comes first, 250 00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:00.559 and I think depending on people sort of temperamented interests, 251 00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:02.600 you can make it argument for starting with with Mark 252 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:07.320 or starting with Luke. If you're somebody who's especially thinking 253 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:10.480 about and interested in the treatment of the marginalize. That's 254 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:12.919 a particular focus in Luke though. It's the longest of 255 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:17.440 the gospels, John, if you're philosophically minded, John is an 256 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:21.840 absolute riot in the most wonderful possible way. And our 257 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:25.039 mutual friend Rachel thinks that Matthew's Gospel is top of 258 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:27.080 the tree in terms of I guess you get. You 259 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:30.240 get some really significant teachings of Jesus in Matthew's Gospel. 260 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:32.000 I mean you do in all four of them, of course, 261 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:34.960 and you also get a lot of ties back, great 262 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:38.080 explicit ties back to the narrative of the Old Testament. 263 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:40.559 And I think it's sort of worth saying that even 264 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:42.480 if you do start with one of the Gospels, which 265 00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:44.000 could be a really great place to start if you've 266 00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:46.559 never opened the Bible and sort of read before, then 267 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:50.120 what you'll come to find is that in order to 268 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:54.879 understand the New Testament, you actually need to dig into 269 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:58.120 the Old Testament. And conversely, from a Christian perspective, in 270 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:00.679 order to understand the Old Testament, you have to dig 271 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:03.759 into the New Testament. So it's not actually I think 272 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:06.279 an either or approach is not going to be helpful 273 00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:09.080 to us in terms of building a around it sense 274 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:11.799 of of how God has revealed himself in the world, 275 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:14.399 and I think it's it's unfortunately a lot of Christians 276 00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:17.399 actually start with the New Testament and really basically continue 277 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:19.799 with the New Testament and never really dive into the 278 00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:25.159 Old Testament, and actually that way you're missing a massive 279 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:28.000 amount of what happened. It's a little bit like I 280 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:31.759 absolutely love Jerr R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings sort 281 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:35.440 of trilogy, and it's only really the New Testament is 282 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:37.240 a little bit like starting with the Return of the King. 283 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:39.480 You kind of need you need, you need the story 284 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:43.000 up to that point to really understand it. And I 285 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:47.120 do think we're selling ourselves short if we don't submerge 286 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:49.879 ourselves also in the Old Testament narratives. But we're going 287 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:52.840 to need to have a different approach to different parts 288 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:55.559 of the Bible, depending on what kind of genre they're 289 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:58.759 written in. So you're fine parts of the Old Testament 290 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:01.559 that are our narrative, you'll find parts that are poetry. 291 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:04.279 If you know, for example, the Book of Psalms, which 292 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:07.000 is sort of sort of the hymn book of God's people, 293 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.360 and the Old Testament the Jewish people, and you know, 294 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:13.919 strongly framed around poetry. You'll find prophecy, and the prophetic 295 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:17.120 books are actually quite poetic as well. So you'll find 296 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:19.519 you'll find all sorts of different ways of writing in 297 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:22.440 the Old Testament, and you'll need to approach them in 298 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:24.480 different ways in order to understand the world kind of 299 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:27.080 just like we do in our you know, normal reading 300 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:29.200 in other parts of our lives. You wouldn't open a 301 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:31.480 book of poetry and expect to read it in the 302 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:33.879 same way as you would open a sort of history 303 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:36.679 of the United Kingdom, for example. Like you just you'd 304 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:38.600 know that you were expecting different kinds of things. And 305 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:41.720 I think sometimes people come to the Bible expecting only 306 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:45.000 one kind of writing, and so they're throne by the 307 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:48.639 fact there's actually a vast diversity of different kinds of 308 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:51.080 writing that we're going to find there, but all of them, 309 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:54.799 according to the Christian claim, all of them actually the 310 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:59.039 inspired word of God and pointing us as you've pointed out, Rachel, 311 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:02.320 to the person of Jesus in one way or another. 312 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:06.519 If we think about just the habits of our days, 313 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:09.519 the kind of structure of our days. Are there any 314 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:13.480 thoughts or recommendations that you have in terms of people 315 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.840 building a Bible reading habit into their daily rhythms, Like, 316 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:19.120 is it something that you can just kind of slot 317 00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:21.080 in at any point in the day. Is it something 318 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.519 where your best to kind of build it around are 319 00:16:23.559 --> 00:16:25.519 the habits you have. I'm sort of curious for your 320 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:28.000 your wisdomne on that front. 321 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:31.519 Yeah, Like, I think I think that most of us 322 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:34.600 will be greatly helped by by by planning it in 323 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:37.559 I guess by having a time set aside each day 324 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:40.080 where we do this thing. I mean, that's that's that's 325 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:43.320 how I get anything done, really is by kind of 326 00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:48.919 diorizing my good intentions. That's the way I'll follow through. 327 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:52.559 So yeah, I think there's there's real wisdom in trying 328 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:55.679 to build it in as a as a regular thing 329 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:59.480 in this time, in this place. My housemate actually tells 330 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:02.639 the story of when she was at college university, she 331 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:06.839 had a friend who became a Christian and her dad, 332 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:10.920 my friend's dad. She he said to her, oh, well, 333 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:14.000 you you need to teach this new Christian how to 334 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:17.480 have a quiet time. And that's less about like what 335 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:19.680 to do when you do it, but just this this 336 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:21.920 sense of kind of setting aside a time and a 337 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:25.519 place you need to help her grow that grow that habit. 338 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:28.920 And so this friend of mine, she would cycle around 339 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:34.000 to this friend's like dorm room and at seven am 340 00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:37.960 in the morning and you know, open the Bible with 341 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.319 her and kind of help her get to get used 342 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:42.599 to the idea of you know, reading the Bible at 343 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.799 this end of day. So yeah, that's just to say, yeah, 344 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.000 there these are habits that it's helpful to really build 345 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:51.319 like that. So yeah, I think there's there's benefit in 346 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:53.559 doing it in the morning. I tend to read the 347 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:56.359 Bible in the morning. It's sort of sets you up 348 00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:58.359 for the day. It means, you know, one of the 349 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:02.640 one of the first voices you hear is this wisdom 350 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:04.559 from God's Word. You know. It means so you can 351 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.759 you can pray about the things coming up ahead of you. 352 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:11.680 But yeah, I don't think that's a I don't think 353 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:13.799 that's a must. You know, it might be that like 354 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:16.160 in your lunch break from work, that's when you're gonna 355 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:19.000 set aside time. It might be in the evening, right 356 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:21.160 before beds. You know, maybe you've got already a habit 357 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:25.000 of you know, reading before beds. Add In adding the Bible, 358 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:27.119 there maybe, Yeah, I think it's I think it's about 359 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:30.680 thinking about what will what will work with your routine. 360 00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:32.319 You know, what are the fixed points in your day 361 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.920 where you're always in the same place at the same time, 362 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:36.680 I guess and for most of us that's at the 363 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:39.720 start of the end. And yeah, adding it in there. 364 00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:42.799 Yeah, I love that example of your your friend who 365 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:44.880 wanted to help her friend in a very kind of 366 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.160 proactive way, like just get established on a rhythm. And 367 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:51.279 I do think that one of the best resources that 368 00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:53.079 we have, if if we are followers of Jesus, we 369 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:56.720 actually have each other, and that's something that we can 370 00:18:57.279 --> 00:18:59.799 use to sort of help us move forward in any 371 00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:03.799 area of our lives spiritually, and not least in this area. 372 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:07.279 A couple of kind of life hacks that I found helpful, 373 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:10.440 either for myself or for friends as follows. One is 374 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.319 a couple of times with friends who've been wanting to 375 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:15.440 start a daily bubber reading habit, I've said, hey, why 376 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:16.960 don't we both read through the same books of the 377 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:20.880 Bible and we'll just do it like a paragraph at 378 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:23.039 the time, a couple of paragraphs, have a chapter whatever, 379 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.119 like a little chunk at a time, and we'll text 380 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:29.000 each other with a top thought from what we read. 381 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:32.039 So I've done that with a couple of friends where 382 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.160 it's just, you know, we worked through one or sometimes 383 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:37.759 two books of the Bible, and it's just been a 384 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.119 kind of helpful starting point for helping them just sort 385 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:42.839 of get off the ground in terms of byber reading 386 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:46.039 for themselves and having some built in like community around 387 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:48.519 that where we're able to sort of just send a 388 00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:50.440 quick thought back and forth of like, oh, this has 389 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:53.400 struck me, or here's a question I had, or here's 390 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:55.519 something I was confused by, or here's something that I 391 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.440 was excited to discover. But there's like that sense of 392 00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:02.599 kind of communal togetherness in the experience of reading the Bible, 393 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:04.640 even though we're in different places and reading at different times. 394 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:09.000 It's an asynchronous approach to reading together. If you can't 395 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:10.799 psycle around to your friend's house at seven am in 396 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.720 the morning and like literally sit alongside them. I think 397 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:18.240 another thing that I found helpful is putting my Bible 398 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:22.599 reading before I communicate with friends. I'm very much a 399 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:24.559 social being. I mean, I know we all are, but 400 00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:28.400 I'm a sort of extra extra social being, and one 401 00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:30.759