Speaker 1: You know when you search online and you get like
Speaker 1: millions of results back from Google.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, it feels like that's everything right, the whole Internet.
Speaker 2: It really does. But that's actually just scratching.
Speaker 1: The surface, just the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 2: Kind of exactly the analogy we need today. We're going
Speaker 2: to talk about what's underneath the deep web and the
Speaker 2: dark net.
Speaker 1: Okay, and they're not the same thing, which I think
Speaker 1: confuses a lot of people.
Speaker 2: Definitely, that's key. The surface web, that's the Google stuff,
Speaker 2: the tip the deep web is the huge part submerged underwater,
Speaker 2: and the dark net that's like the very bottom, intentionally hidden.
Speaker 1: Got it. So our mission today, based on what you've
Speaker 1: looked into, is to kind of demystify this without getting
Speaker 1: lost in super technical stuff.
Speaker 2: Precisely, we'll break down what they are, how you might
Speaker 2: access them, what they're used for, the good and the bad,
Speaker 2: and you know the risks involved.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's dive in then below the water line. If
Speaker 1: Google and being only see the surface, what's making up
Speaker 1: this massive deep web? You said like ninety six percent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, estimates are around ninety six percent. It's enormous, but
Speaker 2: it's not necessarily sinister. A lot of it is pretty mundane,
Speaker 2: actually mundane, Like what well think about databases? Your source
Speaker 2: mentioned the Denver property tax system. You can look up records,
Speaker 2: but Google isn't indexing every single property individually for a
Speaker 2: general search.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Or your online bank account, your email, inbox, subscription, journals,
Speaker 2: cloud storage like dropbox, internal company networks. You log into.
Speaker 1: The stuff behind a log inner is specific query exactly.
Speaker 2: You usually just need the right web address, maybe a password.
Speaker 2: No special secret software is typically needed for the deep
Speaker 2: web itself.
Speaker 1: Right, not like you need a special browser just to
Speaker 1: check your email. So the darknet, Yeah, that's where it
Speaker 1: gets different, the really hidden part.
Speaker 2: That's the shifts. The darknet is part of the deep
Speaker 2: web technically, but it's the portion that's deliberately concealed and
Speaker 2: built for anonymity.
Speaker 1: And that does need special tools.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. You can't just stumble onto it. The main tool
Speaker 2: people use is the tour browser door.
Speaker 1: Right. One of your sources called it diving gear. Is
Speaker 1: that the only way in It's.
Speaker 2: The most common by far. There are other darknets like
Speaker 2: itop free net, zero net. They have different focuses, maybe
Speaker 2: secure file sharing or decentralized sites, but Tour is the
Speaker 2: big one most people mean when they say darknet.
Speaker 1: Tour stands for the onion router, right, it sounds layered,
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: That's the whole principle. It uses onion routing.
Speaker 1: How does that work? How does it make you anonymous? Okay?
Speaker 2: So instead of your computer talking directly to the website,
Speaker 2: Tour bounces your connection through a chain of volunteer run
Speaker 2: servers or relays across the world like a detour, sort
Speaker 2: of multiple detours, and your data is wrapped in layers
Speaker 2: of encryption like an onion. Each server only decrypts one
Speaker 2: layer enough to know where to send it next.
Speaker 1: So no single server knows the whole path exactly.
Speaker 2: The first node knows you connected, but not the final destination.
Speaker 2: The last node, the exit node, knows the destination website,
Speaker 2: but not your original IP address. It makes tracing back
Speaker 2: to you incredibly difficult.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's clever. So if someone you know wanted to
Speaker 1: access this very carefully, how do they get Tour?
Speaker 2: Crucially, only download it from the official Tour project website
Speaker 2: tourproject dot org, not from anywhere else, absolutely not. There
Speaker 2: are fake versions out there loaded with malware. It's available
Speaker 2: for Windows, Mac, Linux, and Android. Android sometimes needs an
Speaker 2: extra app called Orbot, especially for the.
Speaker 1: Alpha browser official source only. Yeah, got it? And once
Speaker 1: you have it, are you just browsing like normal? Well?
Speaker 2: You can use tour to browse the regular surface web
Speaker 2: more privately. But darknet sites themselves have special addresses. They
Speaker 2: end in.
Speaker 1: Onion dot onion not dot com.
Speaker 2: Hey, and those dot onion addresses only work inside the
Speaker 2: Tour network. Your regular browser won't understand them.
Speaker 1: Okay, specific addresses for a specific network. Now, safety, your
Speaker 1: sources were really clear on this. It sounds risky. What
Speaker 1: are the main precautions?
Speaker 2: Extreme caution is non negotiable. First, many recommend using a VPN.
Speaker 1: As well a VPN and tour.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for an extra layer, you can do tour over
Speaker 2: VPN connect VPN first, then tour your ispc's VPN traffic,
Speaker 2: not Tour traffic or VPN over tour connect Tour first,
Speaker 2: then VPN That hides your real IP from the VPN
Speaker 2: and might protect from bad exit nodes. But the Tour
Speaker 2: project itself has some reservations about that setup. Still, either
Speaker 2: is generally seen as better than just tour alone. If
Speaker 2: you're worried about your ISP knowing you're using it an.
Speaker 1: Extra digital bodyguard? Okay, what else?
Speaker 2: Verify dot onion URLs. Since HTTPS and standard security certificates
Speaker 2: aren't common, you need to check addresses from multiple trusted places.
Speaker 2: Don't trust anyone you interact with. Never ever share personal info.
Speaker 2: Don't upload pictures or files definitey.
Speaker 1: Don't download anything either.
Speaker 2: I guess absolutely not huge malware risk. Even. Be careful
Speaker 2: with image previews and search results. Sometimes illegal content can
Speaker 2: get catched just from a thumbnail. And just don't buy
Speaker 2: anything it's likely a scam. Legal and crypto payments are
Speaker 2: usually final, no refunds.
Speaker 1: It's like a good rule. Anything else technical.
Speaker 2: You might consider disabling JavaScript in the Tour browser's security
Speaker 2: settings for extra protection, and just be aware. Your internet
Speaker 2: provider can often tell you're connecting to the Tour network,
Speaker 2: even if they don't know what you're doing. In some
Speaker 2: places like the US, that alone could raise flags.
Speaker 1: That's a heavy list of warnings. It pants a pretty
Speaker 1: dark picture. But it's not all illegal stuff, is it?
Speaker 1: Your sources mentioned legitimate uses.
Speaker 2: Too, No, definitely not all bad. The anonymity is critical
Speaker 2: for some people. Think about dissidents or activists and oppressive regimes,
Speaker 2: journalists protecting sources, whistleblowers like.
Speaker 1: During the Arab Spring, or someone like Edward.
Speaker 2: Snowden, exactly, people who need to communicate or access information
Speaker 2: without being tracked by authorities who might harm them. It
Speaker 2: lets people bypass censorship.
Speaker 1: So it's a tool for free speech and safety and
Speaker 1: dangerous situations.
Speaker 2: It really can be. Even big organizations see value in them.
Speaker 2: The New York Times has a done insight for secure tips.
Speaker 2: Facebook has one, so people in censored countries can still
Speaker 2: access it.
Speaker 1: Facebook on the darknet. That's surprising.
Speaker 2: Yeah, specifically for access where the main site is blocked.
Speaker 2: It shows the utility of the network beyond the illicit stuff.
Speaker 1: Are there other sort of less intense positive examples.
Speaker 2: Sure your sources mention things like the chess for playing
Speaker 2: anonymous chess. Someone documented exploring tunnels under a university on
Speaker 2: a site called it Tunnels. Maybe just quirky Anonymous sharing.
Speaker 2: Secure email providers like proton mail have a presence, though
Speaker 2: they're on the regular web. Two. Some newspapers are setting
Speaker 2: up Onion versions. Even some tech journalists have personal sites
Speaker 2: mirrored there.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's a mixed bag, But let's face it,
Speaker 1: the reputation comes from the illegal side. What kind of
Speaker 1: nasty stuff is actually for sale there?
Speaker 2: Well, it's pretty much what you'd, unfortunately expect. Drugs are common,
Speaker 2: everything from marijuana to dangerous poisons like Risin still in.
Speaker 2: Financial data is huge, credit card numbers, bank logins.
Speaker 1: So from data breaches we hear about often.
Speaker 2: Yes, also weapons, explosives, fake passports, ID cards, even counterfeit
Speaker 2: university degrees. There are mentions of deal killers or hitman services,
Speaker 2: though it's really uncertain how real those are. Could just
Speaker 2: be scams let's hope they're scams, agreed, And lots of
Speaker 2: malware crimeware kits that let people with low skills launch attacks.
Speaker 2: One source even mentioned uranium or being listed once, which
Speaker 2: is disturbing.
Speaker 1: Uranium seriously wow? Okay? And how does it specifically help
Speaker 1: cybercrime happen.
Speaker 2: It's like a digital back alley and marketplace combined. Criminals
Speaker 2: can chat securely, plan attacks, buy and sell hacking tools,
Speaker 2: or even rent out services rin services like what DTOs
Speaker 2: for hire pay someone to knock a website offline, renting
Speaker 2: botnets networks of infected computers to send spam or launch attacks.
Speaker 2: Ransomware as a service, where developers provide the malware and
Speaker 2: infrastructure and affiliates just need to infect victims.
Speaker 1: So lowers the bar for entry into cybercrime.
Speaker 2: Assively, you don't need to be a master hacker yourself. Plus,
Speaker 2: there are anonymous hosting and email services. Criminals use forums
Speaker 2: to trade stolen data or vulnerability info. Search engines like
Speaker 2: Candle or torch specifically for finding onion sights, including illicit ones,
Speaker 2: and the risk of malware is constant, even from things
Speaker 2: pretending to be helpful like fake tour browsers.
Speaker 1: It really sounds like an enabler for a lot of
Speaker 1: digital crime. How does this impact cybersecurity for regular businesses.
Speaker 2: And people, It's a huge factor. The darknit provides the
Speaker 2: hidden infrastructure. It's where attacks are often planned, tools are traded,
Speaker 2: and data is sold. This constant churn of threats means
Speaker 2: security teams have to be vigilant. The commoditization of attack
Speaker 2: tools means more attacks, potentially less sophisticated, but still damaging ones.
Speaker 2: And the anonymity makes attribution and takedowns really hard for
Speaker 2: law enforcement.
Speaker 1: Which I guess is why security pros are looking there
Speaker 1: for threat intelligence.
Speaker 2: Exactly. They monitor the deep and dark web to get
Speaker 2: ahead of threats. They're looking for chatter about attacking specific companies,
Speaker 2: leaked company data, stolen employee credentials being sold, new malware emerging.
Speaker 1: Trying to spot trouble before it hits right.
Speaker 2: If your company's data shows up for sale, you know
Speaker 2: you've had a breach. If people are discussing exploiting a
Speaker 2: flaw and software you use, you can patch it faster.
Speaker 2: It's about early warnings.
Speaker 1: Makes sense, okay. One last technical bit you mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: the differences between tour itop and free net. Can you
Speaker 1: quickly recap those? Sure?
Speaker 2: They all provide anonymity, but have slightly different designs and goals.
Speaker 2: Tour is the biggest, mainly an anonymous proxy for browsing
Speaker 2: the web and accessing dot onion sites. It routes traffic
Speaker 2: through a network. Itop is more of a network within itself,
Speaker 2: like a separate anonymous Internet layer, focused on peer to
Speaker 2: peer communication side i twop. Free net is older, focused
Speaker 2: specifically on censorship resistant anonymous publishing and putting content up
Speaker 2: and making it hard to take down. It's less for
Speaker 2: general browsing, more for distributing files or hosting sites anonymously, so.
Speaker 1: Different tools for slightly different anonymous jobs.
Speaker 2: Pretty much. Yeah, tour is the most versatile for general use.
Speaker 1: Probably. Okay, So we've gone pretty deep here, surface web,
Speaker 1: deep web, darknet, distinct layers, different access, different uses. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot more complex than just the bad Internet.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, the deep web is mostly normal stuff, just not indexed.
Speaker 2: The darknet is intentionally hidden, needs tools like Tour and
Speaker 2: hosts both illicit marketplaces and vital tools for privacy and safety.
Speaker 1: And that second part is easy to forget, isn't it
Speaker 1: That anonymity well abused, is also genuinely needed by vulnerable people,
Speaker 1: by journalists, by activists.
Speaker 2: It's crucial to remember that balance. The technology itself is
Speaker 2: neutral is how people use it, but the risks, especially
Speaker 2: on the darknet, are very real. Caution is paramount extreme caution.
Speaker 1: As you said, So wrapping this up, it leaves us
Speaker 1: with a pretty big question, doesn't it for you the listener?
Speaker 2: Yeah, think about this. As our world gets more digital,
Speaker 2: privacy becomes well trickier. We have this an internet that
Speaker 2: enables crime but also protects freedom. How is that tension going.
Speaker 1: To play out? How will our relationship with the deep
Speaker 1: web in darknet shape, online freedom, security, privacy, all of
Speaker 1: it in the future. Definitely something to chew on. Thanks
Speaker 1: for navigating us through.
Speaker 2: That, my pleasure. It's a fascinating and important topic