Speaker 1: Wrapping up the four o'clock hour on the Drive, Orter Larsen,
Speaker 1: Andy Larson taking you through it on a Friday afternoon,
Speaker 1: filling in for Spence Check. It's we're live at tim
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Speaker 1: you have to work with. Howard Beck of the Ringer
Speaker 1: stops by to close out the four o'clock hour, as
Speaker 1: he does each and every Friday. Howard always good to
Speaker 1: chat with you appreciate your time, my friend. How are
Speaker 1: you doing well?
Speaker 2: How are you.
Speaker 1: Likewise likewise doing pretty well? Obviously NBA Playoffs Action rolls on.
Speaker 1: We got twenty minutes here with you, so we'll we'll
Speaker 1: spend most of it on that what series, And for me,
Speaker 1: I'll just preface it with it's it's it's Warriors Rockets
Speaker 1: because of the contrast between where these two teams are
Speaker 1: as far as franchise wise, right, maybe the end of
Speaker 1: a of a run versus the Rockets a two seed,
Speaker 1: maybe the beginning of one that for me has been
Speaker 1: kind of the most intriguing series. What's had your attention
Speaker 1: in that regard Warriors Rockets?
Speaker 2: For sure, there's never a bad time to see Steph
Speaker 2: Curry do his thing, and we don't know how many
Speaker 2: more years of it we'll get. And yes, like you,
Speaker 2: I'm I love the clash of not only styles, but
Speaker 2: of generations and one team on the rise and one
Speaker 2: team where we don't you know, if they're heading towards
Speaker 2: the horizon Steph and Draymond and now Jimmy Butler on board.
Speaker 2: The only you know caveat to that series being the
Speaker 2: one that I think I came in with the most
Speaker 2: interesting is now. Of course we've got Jimmy Butler questionable
Speaker 2: because of that heart fall the other night, so that's
Speaker 2: kind of a bummer. Let's hope he plays in Game three.
Speaker 2: You want to see everybody at full strength as much
Speaker 2: as possible. But that one's, I mean, already been pretty entertaining.
Speaker 2: Like that one's lived up to its billing. I think
Speaker 2: Nick's Pistons to Go to My Backyard has lived up
Speaker 2: to the billing as well, And I think the Pistons
Speaker 2: have been every bit as feisty and confident, a little
Speaker 2: shaky and crunch time in the two losses that they've had,
Speaker 2: but you know, we're seeing them learn on the fly
Speaker 2: in real time against the next team that's got you know,
Speaker 2: a thousand times more playoffics experience. But I feel like
Speaker 2: the Pistons have been, for the most part up to
Speaker 2: the task, and you know they're they're now facing I
Speaker 2: feel like, you know, we're we're getting to that point
Speaker 2: now right where everybody's almost everybody's played these two games
Speaker 2: and we're getting a lot of the more Game three tonight,
Speaker 2: but we're now heading into the second weekend where okay,
Speaker 2: it's put up for shut up time for certain teams,
Speaker 2: and like the Pistons have to win Game four or
Speaker 2: it's pretty much over. They go down three to one,
Speaker 2: it's probably over. I don't know if it's must win
Speaker 2: time yet for the Warriors, but you know, they're they're
Speaker 2: going home, and they're you know, they stole home court
Speaker 2: advantage right off the bat in that series. But you know,
Speaker 2: how far can they push it with a with either
Speaker 2: a banged up Jimmy or maybe no Jimmy, Clippers Nuggets,
Speaker 2: you know, I feel like has kind of lived up
Speaker 2: to the building, although the Nuggets with each passing game
Speaker 2: look a little bit less up to the task, and
Speaker 2: I think have serious concerns. But we've got you know,
Speaker 2: like throughout the one eights, because the one aights are
Speaker 2: always kind of a bummer series. We've got a really
Speaker 2: good two seven with Warriors Rockets. The other two seven
Speaker 2: is you know, I don't really care much about Celtics Magic,
Speaker 2: but we've got plenty of good series and I'm really interested,
Speaker 2: uh to see how this this week's second weekend goes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think And hey, Howard, this is Andy Larson.
Speaker 3: UH wanted to ask about the Lakers Timberwolves series too.
Speaker 3: I think for a lot of people here in you
Speaker 3: thought the Timberwolves are their second favorite team with the
Speaker 3: Mike Conley, Rudy Gobert, Ti heck, even Joe Ingles right, Like,
Speaker 3: what do you'd see? You know that series right now
Speaker 3: is at one one. Game three is tonight seven thirty
Speaker 3: on ESPN. What do you see as the determining factor
Speaker 3: in that series? And do you think that the Wolves
Speaker 3: can stick with the Lakers and and ultimately win it?
Speaker 1: What's up?
Speaker 2: Andy?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Always great when I get double the Larsons on a
Speaker 2: Friday afternoon.
Speaker 1: Can't have too many.
Speaker 2: There's there really isn't there's there's uh, there's no limit.
Speaker 1: Maybe at my family reunion.
Speaker 2: That might be too many Larsons. Yeah, that I would
Speaker 2: overdose Lakers. The Lakers are interesting because I didn't feel
Speaker 2: like this was a complete team when they got Luca right,
Speaker 2: like they they had to sacrifice some some size and
Speaker 2: some depth, And I thought, well, this is a this
Speaker 2: is a move for the next ten years, not for today.
Speaker 2: But it's turned out like it was a move for
Speaker 2: today too. Like I think they're they're much stronger than
Speaker 2: I had anticipated. I'm a little concerned for them right
Speaker 2: now against the wolves in that you know, there are
Speaker 2: moments where Lebron looks his age a little bit. There
Speaker 2: are moments where it's a little bit too much of
Speaker 2: the Luca Show, And I feel like, as much as
Speaker 2: those two guys play well off of each other, there's
Speaker 2: still kind of a process going on where they're trying
Speaker 2: to figure out how best to keep everybody involved and
Speaker 2: thriving on the timberal side of it. You know, this
Speaker 2: is a big you know, the latest version of a
Speaker 2: big test for Anthony Edwards. Don't like that he got
Speaker 2: into it with fans the other day and got films
Speaker 2: saying and doing other things that were not great for
Speaker 2: a family audience and then draw you know, yet another fine.
Speaker 2: I think we all keep waiting for the moment where
Speaker 2: Anthony Edwards turns into the star that we expect them
Speaker 2: to be. Like, the production is there, the highlights are
Speaker 2: there is the maturity, There is the is the leadership.
Speaker 2: There is the ability to be great every single night,
Speaker 2: which is the real test of greatness in this league.
Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of guys who can put up
Speaker 2: twenty five thirty on a given night, but it's consistency
Speaker 2: and an efficiency with that that matters most. And so
Speaker 2: you know, Anthony Edwards going up against you know, two
Speaker 2: generational stars in Luca and Lebron. It's interesting. I also
Speaker 2: think the other night and you knew that the Lakers
Speaker 2: were going to get right back in the series, but
Speaker 2: like all the role guys suddenly fell off a cliff
Speaker 2: for the Wolves, you know, suddenly like nas Reed, Jade McDaniels,
Speaker 2: all these guys like who were so effective in Game
Speaker 2: one just looked suddenly, you know, clumsy, not not quite
Speaker 2: on their games. So but series have a way of
Speaker 2: swinging back and forth. And I that was when I
Speaker 2: expected to go seven from the start, and I still
Speaker 2: kind of expect that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting, you know, on your aunt point, I
Speaker 3: thought his quote after Game two is really interesting that
Speaker 3: he said, you know, he said he was kind of
Speaker 3: almost confused by what the Lakers were doing defensively. He said,
Speaker 3: you know that they were doing what he called a
Speaker 3: confusing kind of zone when he had the ball, and
Speaker 3: you know, it's that kind of you know, he's still young,
Speaker 3: but it's that kind of game recognition that I don't
Speaker 3: think that he has at the highest level that you know,
Speaker 3: like Lebron does or you know, even like a Dwayne
Speaker 3: Wade did ten, fifteen whatever years ago. Like it's just
Speaker 3: he is so talented and so athletic, and you know,
Speaker 3: the jump SHOT's been amazing this year, but it's just
Speaker 3: not quite there. You're right to be a the the
Speaker 3: man in a playoff series to ultimately like drag you
Speaker 3: to Western Conference finals wins for example.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know the reason that Lebron has
Speaker 2: had the career he's had, and that lucas you know,
Speaker 2: obviously Luca's not won a championship yet, but he's been
Speaker 2: to the finals. The reason these guys are a cut
Speaker 2: above is because they're not just great scorers. They have
Speaker 2: really high basketball IQ. They think the game, they see
Speaker 2: the game, They make their teammates better with their playmaking.
Speaker 2: And I think Andy that like to your point, like
Speaker 2: that's what we're not seeing yet from Anthony Edwards, and like,
Speaker 2: you know, look, not everybody's going to be a Luca
Speaker 2: or Lebron. You can be great in this league in
Speaker 2: various ways, and you don't have to average, you know,
Speaker 2: eight to ten assists a game, but it's nice if
Speaker 2: you can get there sometimes and if you can really
Speaker 2: recognize when your teams are in an advent or when
Speaker 2: your teammates or in an advantageous position to get them
Speaker 2: the ball. You know you're assists. You're assist rate should
Speaker 2: go up over time, and I think Anthonyaviers has become
Speaker 2: a better playmaker over time. But I think there's still
Speaker 2: more growth to come there that it's not just about
Speaker 2: whether you can jump over everybody or get to the
Speaker 2: rack yourself. You're going to be doubled and you're going
Speaker 2: to be tripled, and you've got to find ways to
Speaker 2: leverage your teammates.
Speaker 1: We talked a little bit about Rockets Warriors and now Lakers, Timberwolves,
Speaker 1: Nuggets Clippers. The other series in the West that is competitive.
Speaker 1: I think it Thunder Grizzlies, especially after last night. You
Speaker 1: can probably pencil in the result there, but Nuggets Clippers
Speaker 1: has been fun as well. You see what Kawhi can
Speaker 1: be when he's healthy and what we know he is
Speaker 1: when he's healthy. Getting a little bit more from Harden.
Speaker 1: We talked to earlier in the show about how good
Speaker 1: Zubach has been. What can the Nuggets do to flip
Speaker 1: the script there? It seemed like the conversation we had
Speaker 1: earlier with Zach Harper. You know, you just hope that
Speaker 1: that Nikola Jokic can kind of carry you to the
Speaker 1: Promised Land as he did. You don't have the surrounding
Speaker 1: characters that you maybe did a year or two ago.
Speaker 1: What can the Nuggets do to stay in that series?
Speaker 1: Because it does feel like it's an uphill battle, and
Speaker 1: the Clippers are close to maybe maybe a shortened this
Speaker 1: series in the next game or two.
Speaker 2: I mean, this could very easily be three ozer Clippers
Speaker 2: right now. I mean, the Nuggets won the first game
Speaker 2: in overtime, and they had some miscues down the stretch
Speaker 2: that they could have sunk them. They were fortunate to
Speaker 2: get that win. I I picked the Clippers who win
Speaker 2: this series from the start. I'm feeling pretty good about
Speaker 2: that prediction right now. I'm not a big predictions guy,
Speaker 2: but I just feel like the Clippers have more depth,
Speaker 2: more guys you could just rely on. Period. The Nuggets
Speaker 2: rely so much on Jokic elevating everybody, and they don't
Speaker 2: have enough guys who could just kind of, you know,
Speaker 2: carry their own, you know, and it's eroded over time
Speaker 2: since the championship, and you know Russell Westbrook giveth and
Speaker 2: Russell Westbrook taketh away like he's not an easy, you know,
Speaker 2: guy to plug in and you just never know what
Speaker 2: you're going to get from him. They really need Jamal
Speaker 2: Murray to be the kind of player we've seen the
Speaker 2: in postseasons passed and especially in their championship run. Nobody
Speaker 2: else is really creating for themselves or others on that team,
Speaker 2: aside from Murray and Jokic. But I just the rotation
Speaker 2: has gotten and the overall depth of the roster's gotten
Speaker 2: so thin. I just don't know that they can keep up.
Speaker 2: Like I hate to say this because it's twisted. Their
Speaker 2: best hope is that Kawhi Leonard comes up with a
Speaker 2: bad knee again. Like the only reason the Clippers have
Speaker 2: not been a perennial power is because of Kawhi's health.
Speaker 2: And right now he looks like you know, Toronto Raptors.
Speaker 2: Kawhi the guy they got back in twenty nineteen. And
Speaker 2: as long as the Clippers are at full strength, I
Speaker 2: don't think the Nuggets are beating them.
Speaker 1: Maybe this is an unfair question because you might need
Speaker 1: to dig into the dig into the history of it,
Speaker 1: But do you recall in your time covering the NBA
Speaker 1: ever a time when a team was had home court
Speaker 1: advantage in a playoff series and they had also fired
Speaker 1: their coach within the last couple of weeks. That seems
Speaker 1: to me like they're dealing with a juncture in the
Speaker 1: franchise that we've never really seen in the league before,
Speaker 1: at least not to my knowledge.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think it had ever happened. Actually, it
Speaker 2: was a shocker when it happened, and some people, you know,
Speaker 2: went to the history books immediately and all the databases
Speaker 2: they could find, and I think what the people who
Speaker 2: are better at this than I am came up with was, No,
Speaker 2: it's never happened. We've never had the coach of a
Speaker 2: you know, high level playoff bound team fired with three
Speaker 2: days to go in the regular season. So unprecedented, not great.
Speaker 2: I sort of understood it, but also not like I
Speaker 2: get that if you think that Michael Malone has lost
Speaker 2: the locker room as well as obviously the classes between
Speaker 2: him and the front office with Calvin Booth, you fire
Speaker 2: them both. I sort of get it. I understand that
Speaker 2: was a cloud hanging over them, but it's it also
Speaker 2: just it's a the stabilizing thing to fire your coach
Speaker 2: has been with the team for ten years and presided
Speaker 2: over a championship just two years ago. To fire him,
Speaker 2: which is days to go, whatever the status was, whatever
Speaker 2: the issues were between him and the front office or
Speaker 2: him and the players. I just don't see how that,
Speaker 2: you know, benefits you to remove the coach at that
Speaker 2: stage and then to plug in an assistant coach and
Speaker 2: David Adelman, who you know, is very highly regarded and
Speaker 2: has been around the league a long time, has been
Speaker 2: with that team a long time and is the son
Speaker 2: of Rick Adelman, a great coach himself. Like, I get
Speaker 2: all that, but was David Adelman ready to be thrust
Speaker 2: into this role with the playoffs on the horizon? Like
Speaker 2: I just there was a lot of risk baked into that.
Speaker 2: And maybe they'd be in this place anyway right now
Speaker 2: against the Clippers, because I think the Clippers are just
Speaker 2: a better team. But it certainly doesn't help when you've
Speaker 2: got a rookie head coach, you know, rookie interim head
Speaker 2: coach going up against you know, a team coached by
Speaker 2: Tron lou who's one of the best in the league.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to ask you an NBA question and
Speaker 3: then Awards question. Howard u one here in Utah, even
Speaker 3: from the front office, but also from the fans, there's
Speaker 3: kind of this hope that chaos happens around the NBA
Speaker 3: and another superstar gets traded in, ideally a young superstar
Speaker 3: to Utah.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: So, whether that's Phoenix, Milwaukee, you can kind of go
Speaker 3: down the list of teams that Jazz fans and maybe
Speaker 3: Jazz management are hoping fail a little bit and move
Speaker 3: on from their stars in the same way that the
Speaker 3: Dallas Mavericks did with Luka Doncic incredibly unexpectedly. Do you
Speaker 3: think that is a realistic or plausible dream for the
Speaker 3: Jazz to have with their first round assets or do
Speaker 3: you think it is the more advisable and realistic solution
Speaker 3: to just build moroop the draft over the course of
Speaker 3: a number of years.
Speaker 2: The difficulty, as you guys know, is even if you
Speaker 2: want to trade for a star, if that star is
Speaker 2: you know, on a short deal where they've only got
Speaker 2: a year or two left, they still have some leverage
Speaker 2: because they can just you know, convey, hey, yeah, I
Speaker 2: want to be traded. You know, it's time for me
Speaker 2: to leave. You know, say Yannis wants to leave Milwaukee
Speaker 2: or whatever it may be. But if you if you're
Speaker 2: on a shorter contract, you can also then convey where
Speaker 2: you don't want to go, and you can dissuade teams
Speaker 2: from trading for you because by just saying I'm not
Speaker 2: going to resign, I'm not going to sign an extension
Speaker 2: or I'm not going to resign on a free agency
Speaker 2: and you know, Utah has not generally been a destination,
Speaker 2: so I might my temp I'm tempted to just say
Speaker 2: that that the only way they're going to build again
Speaker 2: is through the draft, and and the drafts smartly. You know,
Speaker 2: over the cult course of multiple years, that's probably the move,
Speaker 2: But you never know. The other problem the short term
Speaker 2: here is so let's say the Bucks, you know, continue
Speaker 2: this crash and burn that appears is happening, and let's
Speaker 2: say Yannis does that ask out. You know, the whole
Speaker 2: league is going to be coming for him, and so
Speaker 2: it's now it's a matter of what's the best deal
Speaker 2: Milwaukee can get for itself first and foremost, but somewhere
Speaker 2: in there is also going to be where does Giannis
Speaker 2: want to be and will he resign after him. Like,
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe the Grizzlies will trade Ja Morant or something,
Speaker 2: but I don't know that that's the move that's going
Speaker 2: to turn around the Jazz or anybody else. I don't
Speaker 2: know how many teams think that they can tie their
Speaker 2: future to Jamrant or maybe LaMelo Ball, same caveats, different
Speaker 2: different issues, but like, I'm not sure who else is
Speaker 2: going to shake loose in the near term.
Speaker 1: We'll catch up with him next week.
Speaker 2: Of course.
Speaker 1: He drives the drive. He joins the Drive each and
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