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Speaker 1: The Epstein Chronicles. Earlier this morning, we talked about the

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strategy for the defense and how the plan was going

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to be to put some distance between Gleainne Maxwell and

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Jeffrey Epstein and his crimes and also continue to keep

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punching at the memory of the survivors themselves. So today

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we heard from one of the defense's star witnesses, and

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she gave her testimony as far as memory goes and

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her expertise in the field. But before we get to that,

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we also heard from Kimberly Espinoza, who was an executive

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assistant to Jeffrey Epstein. She was somebody that worked with

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him up until two thousand and three and somebody who

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speaks still to this day glowingly of them. So that

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was the first witness that came out, and that's where

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we're going to start today. So let's just jump right

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in and let's see what transpired in that courtroom, and

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let's see if the defense did a good enough job

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doing those two things. We talked about putting some distance

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between themselves and Jeffrey Epstein and punching moreholes in the

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testimony of these witnesses. So the day started off with

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the first witness being called to the stand, and that

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was Kimberly Espinoza. And her name is spelled with a C,

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not with a K. Now, she was an executive assistant

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for Epstein, and when they asked her who she was

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hired by, she responds by saying that she was hired

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by the Jeffrey by the Jay Epstein Company. Now that

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was one of the companies that Jeffrey Epstein had that

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he was running. He had several of them. He had

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several operations off shore as far as bank accounts go

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as llces, so there were several different entities that Jeffrey

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Epstein was running as businesses. Asked by the defense about

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how she found out about the job, she says that

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she responded to a newspaper ad and then subsequently interviewed

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with a job aid agency and after that she was,

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you know, given the job over at Epstein's working with Epstein,

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and so the story goes. She was also asked about

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her residence during this time that she was hired, and

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she responds that she was hired in October of nineteen

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ninety six and around that time she was living on

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the Upper East Side of Manhattan. When asked if she

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would recognize Maxwell, she pointed to her in the courtroom,

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The defense once again is trying to make the case

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that there were multiple assistants to Epstein and that it

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was and just Maxwell working closely with him, by bringing

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Sarah Kellen Vickers and Emmy Taylor up again. So again

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you see what she's trying to do here. They're trying

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to create that distance, They're trying to create that buffer zone.

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They're trying to say that it wasn't Maxwell. There was

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a lot of assistance involved here. How can you just

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say it's Glenn Maxwell? How dare you there's no evidence

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to prove that. Meanwhile, you have all of these survivors

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themselves telling you it was Maxwell. But the attempt here

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is to have that insulation right, to drum up enough

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doubt in the mind of the jurors that it is

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something that they can't convict her on. That is what

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they're attempting to do here. She went on to say

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that she saw Sarah Kelln Vickers more towards the end

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of her tenure, and that she also worked with Taylor

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as well. When asked about the office and what the

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layout looked like, Espinoza described the floor plant, and where

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her office was in relation to Epstein's, and how her

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and Glaine shared an office. So this wasn't somebody who

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didn't know Glaine Maxwell. And we've talked about Kimberly here

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on the podcast before. She was another person that was

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entrenched in Jeffrey Epstein's orbit. And I don't even understand

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how these people could be called as defense witnesses. They

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should all be indicted at the very least, they should

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all be put under oath and you know, made to

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talk about Epstein's criminal conspiracy and Maxwell's criminal conspiracy because

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they were all in on it together for all of

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these years. And the same goes for the pilots, the

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same goes for Juana Lessi, all of these people that

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were around Jeffrey Epstein so often for so many years,

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and then have the audac need to talk about how,

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oh I don't know nothing, I didn't see anything, I

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had no idea. I just can't believe that. That is

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absolute BS in my opinion. When asked if she signed

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an NDA while working for Epstein and Maxwell, she declared

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that she did. The NPA was a huge part of

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working for Epstein and it was a very common practice

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for that to occur now, obviously somebody like Jeffrey Epstein,

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he needs silence. He needs people that are not going

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to rock the boat, people who aren't going to talk

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to reporters, people who aren't going to talk about what

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they see, what they experience, what they're involved in. And

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Jeffrey Epstein he had a way of doing that, and

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obviously it always revolved around money. But these people that

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were in his inner circle, they were all signing these NDAs,

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and you see it in the business world a lot

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as well. Look at Leon Black and the current issues

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he's having with Miss Ganieva. He says that they were

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in a consensual relationship. She says otherwise, well, she had

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to sign an NDA, right, because that's how these people are, folks.

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Everything's a business transaction to these people. It is. It's

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just strange to me. All of these so called elite

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and the way they're wired is absolutely bizarre to me.

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It also offered him another layer, meaning the NDA, another

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layer of protection when the walls came closing in. That

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was always Jeffrey Epstein's plan, right to have as many

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layers between him and the trouble as possible, and the

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fail safe was his connections with his pals and intelligence.

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But the idea was to set it all up so

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you never got to that point, so that you had

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all of these layers in front of you, all of

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these different people as buffers, lieutenants, groomers, people going out

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to get the girls, etc. Etc. And then Jeffrey Epstein

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can sit back and say, what are you talking about?

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I was just getting massages. According to her, she was

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comfortable signing the NDA meaning kimberly, considering the nature of

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her work and that she had signed them before. When

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the witness was asked if she had ever booked massages

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for Maxwell, she said that yes she had, but they

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were always professional massuses that she booked, And when asked

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about Epstein, she responded in kind and once again she

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says that they were professional messuses. So my question is

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why did they need fifteen and sixteen year old girls

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to provide massages when they could have simply called any

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number of professionals. And this is a question I have

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asked from Jump Street. You don't look if you need

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a massage and you need to get the kinks worked out,

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you want a professional doing that, right. You're not looking

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for your girlfriend to get in there with a couple

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of elbows and maybe maybe work out half of a knot.

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And the same goes here. You're gonna have a fourteen

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or fifteen or sixteen year old untrained girl come over

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and massage you're back as a billionaire, millionaire, or whatever

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the hell it is. It doesn't make any sense. You

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have access to the best professionals in the world. You

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could have your girl Kimberly call insert sports team here

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and get the hookup for whatever their massage therapy people are.

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But yet you're going around picking these little girls up,

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bringing them to the house and it's for a massage.

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That's what you want us to believe. Zero chance I

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believe any of that. When asked if she ever saw

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Jane around the office, she responds that she did, and

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when asked how old she thought Jane was, she says

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probably eighteen. After a pause. Yeah, pretty uh self serving

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for you to say that, right, talk about protect Janick.

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Oh yeah, they all looked eighteen, like Larry Vasaski says,

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girl was fourteen. Oh, well, she had a rather large

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chest and she looked eighteen to me, Oh okay, buddy, sure,

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And again, unfortunately you can't really deny that, right, How

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can you prove that that's not what he thought. It's

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his word against what reality really is. And while we

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all might know that he's a scumbag and he's obviously lying,

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how can you prove that he says, hey, look, I

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thought she was eighteen. And he's not the one doing

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the abuse, right, He's not the one involved in the abuse.

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And again, that's why it is just beyond me that

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this isn't more of a larger umbrella as far as

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the charges go. You mean to tell me people like

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Larry Vasaski, who was bringing these girls across state lines,

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bringing them across intercontinental lines, shouldn't have any sort of penalty.

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Here comes gives a half assed testimony, and then that's

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her app for him. He gets to go back to

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the forty acres that Jeffrey Epstein gave him. Must be

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nice to be on the other side of that two

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tier justice system. This has been a tactic of all

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the people who were close to Epstein and Maxwell plausible deniability.

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The ol I had no idea. And when the defense

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asks about Epstein's planes and if Jane ever flew on them,

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Kimberly responds she does not know. The witness tells the

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court that she saw Jane on a soap opera and

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that she, the witness, was a fan of the specific

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show that Jane was on. She says that Jane sent

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her autographed photographs of her since she was such a

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fan and to this Christian Everdell hands her evidence that's

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the lawyer for Maxwell, provided by the defense and ask

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her asks her to tell the court what they are.

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After looking at the photos, reponds that they are the

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headshots of three of the cast members and a group

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photo of the whole cast. When asked how she recognized them,

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she responds that they are hers. One of the photos reads,

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dearest Kimberly, thank you for always being so sweet and

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such a great help. And this was given to her

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by Jane. But again, I don't understand where the defense

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is going here. It doesn't make sense to me trying

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to set it up as Kimberly was a decent person

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or decent to this young lady Jane. I don't know

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how this helps Galynne Maxwell, I guess is my point.

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When the defense changes it up again and asks about

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Epstein and Maxwell's relationship, Espinoza says she always thought of

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them as a couple because of their interactions with one

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another went together, they were flirty. This, in my opinion,

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was all part of the grand ruse. The cover of

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them being in a relationship was the perfect reason for

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them to spend so much time together while they're real motivations,

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the common Bramont game stayed the priority. So they have

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the cover of them being, hey, look, we're in a relationship,

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we're dating, whatever it may be, and they're spending all

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this time together when in reality they're cooking up something

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behind the scenes. And we all know at this point

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that Jeffrey Epstein wasn't doing this in a vacuum. While

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he was a sick, disgusting man with very gross proclivities,

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he was also building dossier's on people. He was also

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collecting blackmail information on very powerful people, well placed people,

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and that was always the main goal, at least in

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my opinion, of Jeffrey Epstein and Glene Maxwell and this

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whole entire criminal enterprise. The rest of this, the sex

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trafficking and the abuse. While it fulfilled Jeffrey Epstein's disgusting proclivities,

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it was a means to an end to get this compromise.

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Asked about the importance of Maxwell to Epstein, Espinosa responds

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that she Maxwell was very important to her, Espinosa, and

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obviously very important to Epstein as well. Yeah, no, shit right,

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she was the key cog. Epstein and Maxwell go together

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like Tom Brady and Gronkowski. They're just inseparable, right, And

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that's how it was with Maxwell and Epstein. They were

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always together, always involved with each other. And it wasn't

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just like it was one house. They weren't neighbors. They

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were together all over the world. Espinosa goes on to

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lists the different real estate acquisitions of Epstein, listing the

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Paris apartment first and then the Island. After Maxwell's attorney

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continue to ask about the properties and the construction and

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asked if Espinosa was involved with any of it. She

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responds that she was in charge of furnishing the house

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at the island, and the idea was to get it

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to look like a resort, like a five star hotel.

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She then goes on to tell the court about how

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they literally ship sand to the beach because Epstein wanted

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more sand at the beach and even brought in more

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palm trees now think about the Hubris. Oh there's not

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enough sand on my beach. I'm gonna need to import

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some sand to my island beach. It again, the thought

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patterns of these people absolutely absurd. Imagine having money, it'll

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blow like that. Yeah, let me get to bring some

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You know the old saying, right, why are you gonna

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bring sand to the beach? Well, this idiot absolutely destroyed

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that statement. Right, let me order some sand and bring

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it to the island and add some to the beach

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because there wasn't enough sand there already, not for nothing.

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How about just dredging some sand up? Perhaps these people

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She turns to the infrastructure, and she explains that they

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even went so far as to have a fire drug

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ship to the island, and there were firemen, I guess

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on tuty whenever they were on the island. Now, it's

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kind of interesting because at Zoro Ranch, when I was there,

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you could see the mock firehouse, the farmhouse. They had

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set up there, a whole entire like mini town, and

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a lot of the help stayed at this part of

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00:15:19,159 --> 00:15:21,799
the ranch, which is I don't know, a mile and

240
00:15:21,799 --> 00:15:24,000
a half or so from the main house, but it

241
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,879
seems to be a common theme at these bigger properties

242
00:15:26,919 --> 00:15:30,759
that they have stuff like the fireman house, the mock

243
00:15:30,879 --> 00:15:33,759
school house, etc. They have a bunch of this weird

244
00:15:33,799 --> 00:15:40,440
stuff on the island and over at Zoro Ranch. She

245
00:15:40,519 --> 00:15:42,399
goes on to tell the court that Epstein liked to

246
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,399
have his bread flown in before he arrived, sometimes some

247
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,639
special butter as well. Now turning back to some of

248
00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:53,360
the other assistants that were in Epstein's orbit she Orbit,

249
00:15:53,399 --> 00:15:57,879
the defense asks about Emmy Taylor. Espinoza explains that Emmy

250
00:15:57,919 --> 00:16:01,320
took care of the dog and she carried Maxwell's handbag.

251
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,480
And again I say to myself, what does that even mean?

252
00:16:05,039 --> 00:16:09,120
Imagine being so ridiculous that you need somebody to carry

253
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,519
your handbag around. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm gonna do

254
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,039
with my wealth and my power. I'm gonna have somebody

255
00:16:17,039 --> 00:16:24,360
follow me around and carry my wallet. Asked about Maxwell

256
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:26,919
and Epstein living together, she says that they did not.

257
00:16:27,559 --> 00:16:30,360
Asked about the properties in England and if she ever visited,

258
00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:33,440
she responded that yes she had. When asked who owned it,

259
00:16:33,639 --> 00:16:37,200
she said she didn't know. Asked about others who visited

260
00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:42,039
Epstein at the office, Espinoza says that Shelley Chocolate Sauce

261
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:47,080
Lewis and gwendolen Beck also came to visit. Gwendolen Beck

262
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,360
is a failed politician who was bankrolled by Epstein as

263
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:55,799
she pursued office. I'm posting an upload about gwendolen Beck

264
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,759
and one about Shelley Ann Lewis as well. Now, the

265
00:16:59,799 --> 00:17:03,000
she Elly Ann Lewis story is very interesting, so we're

266
00:17:03,039 --> 00:17:05,920
gonna leave that to the uploaded episode that's gonna be

267
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,559
coming after this. But she was somebody who was close

268
00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:15,759
to Epstein, very very much in his orbit, and another

269
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:21,759
person who somehow has escaped all kinds of scrutiny as

270
00:17:21,799 --> 00:17:24,960
this thing is unfolded. And same with gwendolen Beck. I

271
00:17:25,039 --> 00:17:29,319
have an article an upload that I'm posting about her

272
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,039
and her story as far as her involvement with Epstein,

273
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,880
So both of those will be up later on tonight.

274
00:17:38,839 --> 00:17:41,720
When asked about Glaine and her travels in Florida and

275
00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:44,599
if she was always in Palm Beach, Espinosa answered that

276
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,119
when she was in Florida sometimes she went to Miami

277
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,400
as well because she has friends there. Now, right before

278
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,519
they get ready for the midboarding break, the questioning turns

279
00:17:54,599 --> 00:17:59,559
to Maxwell's relationship briefly with Gateway Computer's co founder Ted Waite,

280
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:05,559
and when Espinoza was asked if she knew Ted Waite

281
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,960
or knew who he was, she responded that she didn't,

282
00:18:10,079 --> 00:18:13,119
but it wasn't long before she learned. Now, Ted Waite

283
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:17,920
and Glenn Maxwell were romantically connected and they had a

284
00:18:18,839 --> 00:18:24,400
thing for a little bit of time together. Now when

285
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,680
they get back from the break, the defense continues to

286
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,720
try and insert Sarah Kelln Vickers into the equation. I mean,

287
00:18:30,759 --> 00:18:32,519
it would have been nice if the prosecution would have

288
00:18:32,519 --> 00:18:34,759
done the same by indicting her. Uh to try and

289
00:18:34,799 --> 00:18:37,720
fortify that layer of insulation between Maxwell and Epstein in

290
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,440
his behavior again, now, Sarah Kelln Vickers is a member

291
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,880
of what I have dubbed the Corps four. These are

292
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,960
the women in Epstein's orbit that made the machine move

293
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,039
for him. They were spoiled with gifts, money, and access

294
00:18:50,039 --> 00:18:52,960
to the most powerful and rich, and the cost of

295
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,160
all this their loyalty and silence. After Epstein was arrested

296
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,519
the first time and granted the Sweetheart NPA, it also

297
00:19:00,599 --> 00:19:05,079
protected Sarah Kellen Vickers from prosecution. The defense also asks

298
00:19:05,079 --> 00:19:09,519
if Maxwell had ever been married and When Espinoza goes

299
00:19:09,559 --> 00:19:15,039
to respond, the prosecution objects and Nathan allows it. So

300
00:19:16,839 --> 00:19:21,519
this NPA that was given to Jeffrey Epstein and his

301
00:19:21,599 --> 00:19:25,160
associates the first time around is a real big monkey

302
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,720
in the wrench. And you'll notice that I refer to

303
00:19:27,759 --> 00:19:30,759
it quite a bit because it's a huge problem here.

304
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,839
If that NPA would never came into existence, or if

305
00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:39,559
that NPA got thrown out because it's garbage, then the

306
00:19:39,599 --> 00:19:44,440
whole entire tone of this case could change and will change.

307
00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:48,799
But unfortunately that is not the case yet. Now the

308
00:19:48,839 --> 00:19:51,400
only thing left to the survivors is to go all

309
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,519
the way to the Supreme Court, and it looks like

310
00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:56,440
they're going to do just that. But as of now,

311
00:19:56,519 --> 00:20:00,960
that non prosecution agreement that Epstein weaseled out of the government,

312
00:20:01,599 --> 00:20:04,319
it just really looms large in this whole entire thing.

313
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,480
Espinoza is then asked about when she departed Epstein's employ

314
00:20:11,839 --> 00:20:14,039
and she responds that she left in two thousand and

315
00:20:14,079 --> 00:20:16,440
two so that she could get back to her roots

316
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,319
in Cali after the nine to eleven attacks the year before.

317
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,599
Before the defense team turns the witness over for cross

318
00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:25,960
she has asked if she ever saw Maxwell or Epstein

319
00:20:26,079 --> 00:20:31,000
engage in any inappropriate activity with underage girls. She responds

320
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,759
that she never saw anything like that. Well, my question

321
00:20:33,799 --> 00:20:36,279
would be, how does she know how all the girls were?

322
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,799
Did she check everybody's ID at the door like a bouncer.

323
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,920
So you can't just look at somebody and say, oh,

324
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,079
this person's this age, especially not these days. So I

325
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,079
don't know how she can be so confident in saying

326
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:54,680
that the cross examination was super brief, just one question

327
00:20:54,759 --> 00:20:57,480
basically asking her if she was ever in Palm Beach,

328
00:20:57,559 --> 00:21:00,400
meaning the house, and she says no, that she was

329
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,400
not at that pom Beach house. So we know that

330
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,440
a lot of these accusations have taken place down in

331
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,160
that pom Beach residence. And what the defense, I mean,

332
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,920
what the prosecution was trying to do there is say

333
00:21:13,039 --> 00:21:17,400
that her whole entire testimony means squad. Really, she wasn't

334
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,279
even down in pom Beach. How does she know? The

335
00:21:22,319 --> 00:21:25,759
next witness that they call up is a gentleman named

336
00:21:25,839 --> 00:21:30,000
Rogu sud. The questioning by Christian Everdell of the defense

337
00:21:30,039 --> 00:21:33,279
team starts with the basics, asking the witness where he

338
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,000
lives and where he works. To this, he says that

339
00:21:36,079 --> 00:21:38,519
he lives in East Windsor, New Jersey, and that he

340
00:21:38,559 --> 00:21:41,720
works at Shoppers Travel in the position of vice president

341
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,200
and that he has been with the company since nineteen

342
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,000
eighty eight. Asking about Epstein and if Epstein frequent in

343
00:21:48,039 --> 00:21:52,240
his frequented his business as a customer, mister sud answers

344
00:21:52,279 --> 00:21:57,079
that yes, Epstein was a customer. Mister ragu is then

345
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,519
asked to look at some records by prosecution, to which

346
00:22:00,519 --> 00:22:03,799
he responds that they go until two thousand and six.

347
00:22:04,319 --> 00:22:07,400
He responds that yes, that is correct and there is

348
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,319
no redirect. So the next witness that they're about to

349
00:22:11,319 --> 00:22:14,079
call up is Elizabeth Loftis. But what they were trying

350
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,799
to do here is established that Epstein was a customer

351
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:23,559
at this establishment and that these records were legit, and

352
00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:25,960
that was what the witness was brought up to do

353
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:31,519
to authenticate those documents. So moving on to Loftus, this

354
00:22:31,599 --> 00:22:33,920
is where the meat and the potatoes come in today.

355
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,759
This is where the prosecution, dare I say, had a

356
00:22:37,759 --> 00:22:46,680
bit of a shining moment. She is asked to list

357
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,799
her credentials for the court and she goes on to

358
00:22:48,839 --> 00:22:51,720
tell them about all the work she has previously done,

359
00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:54,720
and how she has testified in about three hundred trials.

360
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,079
She also tells the court how she has been consulted

361
00:22:58,079 --> 00:23:01,400
by the Department of Justice and the SEA. Well, that's nice,

362
00:23:01,519 --> 00:23:05,920
the CIA consulting you. That can only bode well for somebody.

363
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,839
When asked how many times she has testified for the prosecution,

364
00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:14,960
she responds that her field of study and research into

365
00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:18,519
false memories doesn't exactly fit the narrative or agenda of

366
00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:21,599
the government. Thus she is less likely to be called

367
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,559
as a witness for the state, and that's why she

368
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:29,000
is a witness for the prosecution. So excuse me why

369
00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:33,079
she's a witness for the defense so often. I think

370
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,279
we have other ideas about why she does it, and

371
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,640
the prosecution definitely gets to that a little bit further

372
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:51,400
down here in the testimony, Loftus launches into her explanation

373
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,039
of memory by saying that one thing we know about

374
00:23:54,079 --> 00:23:56,599
memory is that it doesn't work like a recording device.

375
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,440
She goes on to explain a drawing of a barbelle

376
00:23:59,519 --> 00:24:04,880
that is laid acquisition, retention, and retrieval. Her testimony is

377
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,920
an attempt for the defense to establish once again that

378
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,200
the memory of the survivors cannot be trusted and that

379
00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:15,640
this diagram and that the work that doctor Lofice engages

380
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,759
in proves that. So basically, she presented this diagram with

381
00:24:20,039 --> 00:24:25,400
the three steps of memory in her field of study,

382
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,920
and that's acquisition, retention, and retrieval. So what she goes

383
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,799
on to do is try and prove that the memories

384
00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:38,079
of these girls aren't as stable as they would want

385
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,559
you to believe, that they perhaps have embellish some of

386
00:24:41,599 --> 00:24:46,160
the trauma, forgotten some of it, got things confused. And

387
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,839
this is the diagram how she's explaining how that all occurs.

388
00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:55,920
She goes on to discuss the media as a source

389
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,559
of post event suggestion, attempting to paint a picture that

390
00:24:59,599 --> 00:25:02,960
the media coverage of these events have guided the memory

391
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:08,519
of the accusers. And I think that's ridiculous. Remember before

392
00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:11,000
they called her as a witness, I said, I find

393
00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:14,279
that this field of study is quackery. Anyway, I don't

394
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:19,119
even really take it seriously, honestly. But what she's trying

395
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,039
to do is set it up that the witnesses, because

396
00:25:23,079 --> 00:25:25,480
it's been so long and the trauma, that they have

397
00:25:25,559 --> 00:25:28,839
forgotten a lot of major details. And in fact they've

398
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,160
added details to it that didn't exist because of the

399
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:41,119
exposure from the media. When she was asked, meaning the witness,

400
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,720
if she was a practicing therapist, she says that she

401
00:25:43,839 --> 00:25:48,920
is not, but that she sometimes studies patience. When asked

402
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,279
if there was a way to prove a memory outside

403
00:25:51,319 --> 00:25:55,359
of a laboratory setting, the prosecution objects to this, and

404
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,079
Judge Nathan sustains it. When asked about the research she

405
00:25:59,319 --> 00:26:03,240
doctor loft has performed on the confidence in memory, she

406
00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:06,799
explains to the Jerry that people can get very confident

407
00:26:06,839 --> 00:26:10,720
about wrong answers and have been affected by post events suggestion.

408
00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:15,039
So what she's saying is, you could be very very

409
00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:18,519
confident in your answers and your memory of it of

410
00:26:18,559 --> 00:26:23,319
the situation could still be wrong. And that's again, it

411
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,839
goes right to the heart of what the defense has

412
00:26:25,839 --> 00:26:28,839
been trying to do the whole entire time here. This

413
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,519
has been the crux of their defense. They are not

414
00:26:32,759 --> 00:26:35,319
going to let go, they are not going to let

415
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,119
off the gas, and they're going to continue down this pathway.

416
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,079
So after that they break for lunch and then coming

417
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,759
back from lunch, the questioning of doctor loftus continues as

418
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:50,000
the defense continues to ask her questions about memory retention

419
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,000
and memory loss, as well as confidence in memory and

420
00:26:54,039 --> 00:26:58,319
the accuracy of them. According to her testimony, people can

421
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,759
express a certain level of confidence and if they then

422
00:27:01,839 --> 00:27:05,799
get new information, it can artificially increase their confidence in

423
00:27:05,839 --> 00:27:09,680
what they are saying. She's basically saying that everyone's the

424
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,920
hero in their own story, and when asked what her

425
00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:15,920
rate was, this is a preemptive move, my guess would

426
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,400
be by the prosecutor, I mean by the defense, because

427
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,079
they know the prosecution is going to talk about this.

428
00:27:22,279 --> 00:27:24,480
She says that she makes six hundred bucks an hour,

429
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,559
and when asked if she was getting paid for this testimony,

430
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,079
she equipped she hopes so. So with that framing things,

431
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,720
they get ready to hand her over to the prosecution.

432
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,759
Right off of the bat, the prosecutors come out swinging.

433
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,200
They asked doctor Loftis about consulting in her history of

434
00:27:45,319 --> 00:27:49,799
providing testimony for the defense at trial over hundreds of times.

435
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,480
Doctor Loftis responds to this by answering, yeah, probably around

436
00:27:53,519 --> 00:27:56,599
that number. When asked about her very limited number of

437
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,799
times working with the prosecution, a number that totaled five,

438
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,240
she answered that that is correct. Also and we all

439
00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:05,440
know the deal, right. She says that it doesn't fit

440
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,680
the narrative, but really there's no money in working for

441
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,079
the state. And the point that and that's the point

442
00:28:12,079 --> 00:28:14,799
that the prosecution is trying to drive home here that

443
00:28:14,839 --> 00:28:17,960
there's no financial benefit for her working with the state.

444
00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:20,920
So that's why you see her working with the defense

445
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:27,160
so often, and they're doing it effectively, and it's about time.

446
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,519
It is about time that the prosecution bit down on

447
00:28:31,559 --> 00:28:33,799
their mouthpiece and went a little harder in the painter here.

448
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,400
Now they move on to the book that doctor Loftus

449
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,599
wrote called Witness for the Defense, stating that in that

450
00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:44,079
book she wrote that she should be an advocate, to

451
00:28:44,119 --> 00:28:47,680
which doctor loftis. She took exception to this because she

452
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,359
said that context was being left out. When asked if

453
00:28:51,359 --> 00:28:53,960
she was sitting in on this trial specifically or present

454
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,880
for testimony for this trial, she responded that she was

455
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,799
not present in the courtroom. So what they're establishing is

456
00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:04,720
her testimony is about general case overall, not about this

457
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,359
specific case, and they want to hammer that point home

458
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,240
to the jury so that the jury they understand that, well,

459
00:29:12,359 --> 00:29:15,519
she might have expertise in this field, she hasn't been

460
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,160
in the weeds. She doesn't have all of the nuanced

461
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:29,519
information about this case. Now the prosecution starts in on

462
00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:31,960
the meat and potatoes, and that is the fact that

463
00:29:32,039 --> 00:29:35,359
doctor Loftus is a hired gun. She's being paid for

464
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,799
this testimony, and the prosecution is attempting to drive the

465
00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:42,519
point all the way home. The prosecutor asks her how

466
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:45,000
much he gets paid, and the witness replies that she

467
00:29:45,079 --> 00:29:48,359
makes six hundred dollars an hour for her testimony. Now,

468
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,160
remember these girls that were being abused by Epstein and Maxwell,

469
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,920
they were given two hundred three hundred dollars for them

470
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,000
being abused. That's either four hundred or three hundred dollars

471
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:05,799
less than this specialist is getting for her testimony. Talk

472
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:16,039
about absolutely gross. She has then asked how much money

473
00:30:16,079 --> 00:30:19,000
she has made from her testimony over her career and

474
00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:22,160
if it is in the millions of dollars. The witness

475
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,279
responds that she isn't sure how much she has made

476
00:30:24,319 --> 00:30:29,440
throughout her lifetime. Then the prosecutor frames the then and

477
00:30:29,519 --> 00:30:34,400
the now by asking her how much she charged when

478
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,559
she first started in nineteen seventy seventy five. To this,

479
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,519
she responds that she did it for free. Now, this

480
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:46,000
is again framing then and now when she started it

481
00:30:46,119 --> 00:30:48,839
was for free. She's trying to build her profile and

482
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,200
become an expert in her field. Well, now flash forward

483
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,960
all these years later. She's a hired gun and doing

484
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,640
it for money. And it certainly doesn't look like she

485
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,240
has any interest in doing doing it for the state ever.

486
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,000
I mean, I'm sure the state's not paying six hundred

487
00:31:05,039 --> 00:31:13,400
dollars an hour. Prosecution asks the witness about how she

488
00:31:13,759 --> 00:31:17,519
markets herself and if testifying helps with that. She answers

489
00:31:17,559 --> 00:31:20,240
that she doesn't market herself at all, but that is

490
00:31:20,279 --> 00:31:22,799
obviously a bit of a reach considering the list of

491
00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:26,319
people she has testified for, and the prosecutor brings that

492
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,119
up as well when she asks if she ever gives

493
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,880
a list of the cases she worked a resume to

494
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,640
the defense attorneys. She responds that she does, and again

495
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,720
it shows right, this is all about building her profile.

496
00:31:42,759 --> 00:31:46,079
She's going to testify at Harvey Weinstein's case because she

497
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,039
knows the next time one of these sickos gets caught

498
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:52,720
literally with their pants down, she's going to make six

499
00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:57,440
hundred bucks an hour. Again, after the prosecutors drop a

500
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,400
Harvey Weinstein, mom asking her if she testif fight on

501
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:05,000
his behalf. There's a long pause by Judge Nathan and

502
00:32:05,079 --> 00:32:09,799
then we don't hear any more about Harvey Weinstein after that.

503
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,039
As far as what came out of the court today,

504
00:32:12,359 --> 00:32:14,640
we might hear some of it later on, maybe somebody

505
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,720
will talk about it, but as far as I know,

506
00:32:17,039 --> 00:32:21,359
they completely left that question hanging and they moved on.

507
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:25,640
When prosecution then asked her if she treats victims of

508
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,240
traumatic events, and she once again confirmed that she did not.

509
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,119
The prosecutor then asked her about the Bugs Bunny study.

510
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:36,000
This was a study where participants of this study thought

511
00:32:36,039 --> 00:32:39,440
that they saw bugs Bunny at Disneyland, but that couldn't

512
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,400
be possible because Bugs Bunny is a Warner Brother character.

513
00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:47,960
So again the memory, right, you could be completely convinced

514
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,960
you have saw something, but according to doctor loftis something

515
00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:55,440
like that even impossibility because it's not even a character

516
00:32:55,519 --> 00:32:58,440
at this park. So that's the study she's trying to

517
00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:04,480
use to act as a bulwark to her her testimony

518
00:33:04,519 --> 00:33:09,000
and what she is attempting to say happens to the

519
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:16,119
memory of these survivors. The prosecutors, after some back and

520
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,240
forth get the witness to agree that sometimes some of

521
00:33:19,279 --> 00:33:22,440
the details about assaults, such as the ones Maxwell is

522
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,160
accused of, might get confusing, but that the core details

523
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,680
tend to be even stronger as time goes on. Now,

524
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,720
this is a huge admission from what is supposed to

525
00:33:32,759 --> 00:33:35,839
be an expert witness on behalf of the defense. Getting

526
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,519
her to admit this is a big deal. And the

527
00:33:38,599 --> 00:33:41,680
fact that she said this on the stand, right under

528
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,680
oath in front of the jury, I think is going

529
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,799
to go a long way. She's basically working as a

530
00:33:46,839 --> 00:33:55,079
witness for the prosecution here. What she's saying is that, Yeah,

531
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,079
I'm a memory expert, and I just gave you this

532
00:33:57,119 --> 00:33:59,839
whole litany of things of how the memory can be

533
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,519
screwed up. But with that one stroke of genius here

534
00:34:04,079 --> 00:34:08,840
the prosecutor completely harpoon all of it when they get

535
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,920
her to admit that while some of the outer memories,

536
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,480
some of the you know, lead ups and different things

537
00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:20,239
that were in the periphery might get jumbled, the core

538
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,239
memories of the trauma of the abuse gets stronger as

539
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,920
time goes by in a lot of cases, and they

540
00:34:28,039 --> 00:34:32,400
got her, meaning doctor loftis the defense witness to admit

541
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:37,119
that on the stand. Absolutely fantastic job on the behalf

542
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:45,519
of the prosecutors in that case for sure. Prosecution then

543
00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:48,719
asks about studies that Loftus has conducted and if any

544
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,480
of those studies were involving girls who were arranged to

545
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,480
be sexually abused, and she emphatically answers that she has not,

546
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,199
once again establishing to the jury that while she might

547
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,719
be an expert at her field, she most certainly is

548
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,880
not an expert in the Galain Maxwell case, the Jeffrey

549
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:10,800
Epstein situation and what occurred here. Now, that wrapped up

550
00:35:11,199 --> 00:35:16,199
the testimony from doctor Loftus, and I thought it was

551
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,360
the best day the prosecution has had as far as

552
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:24,679
their work since this whole thing started. Now, obviously I

553
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:29,039
believe that Annie's testimony was a hammer strike against the defense,

554
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,280
but I think that the prosecution had a fantastic day

555
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:40,000
to day. The next witness that is then called is

556
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,519
a man named Michael William as Narren, and he works

557
00:35:43,519 --> 00:35:47,159
for the Customs and Border Protection Bureau. Now this is

558
00:35:47,199 --> 00:35:50,400
relatively short because they run out of time, but Maxwell's

559
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,800
lawyers they begin by asking him to do a search

560
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,360
for Jane Kate and Annie Farmer's border crossing records, and

561
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,119
he goes into all of that, you know, looks at

562
00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:04,960
some of the evidence, and then tells them that, yes,

563
00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:07,960
this happened, they did cross blah blah blah. But for me,

564
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:14,320
what I thought was a little odd is that they're

565
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,360
bringing up these flight record type things or crossing into

566
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,920
the country, when we know on Jeffrey Epstein's planes, the

567
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,199
pilots did a lax, terrible job of keeping track who

568
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,840
was on those planes, and it's very secretive on private

569
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,320
jets in the first place. Now I know that Annie

570
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,599
and these talking about the commercial flights that they were on.

571
00:36:36,679 --> 00:36:39,639
That's what they're talking about here, I'm guessing, But I

572
00:36:39,679 --> 00:36:41,760
think it's a little weird for the defense to even

573
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,840
bring that up, considering how much interest there was around

574
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:51,239
those flight logs at the beginning of this trial. After

575
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,880
some more of this, the prosecutors then asked the witness

576
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,079
a few questions about the differences as far as entry

577
00:36:57,079 --> 00:37:00,480
into the United States in the way of nine to

578
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:05,079
eleven and how that compared to previously before nine to

579
00:37:05,079 --> 00:37:10,039
eleven happened. So what they're trying to establish, I guess,

580
00:37:10,199 --> 00:37:14,159
is that these girls were flying commercially. Sometimes I'm not

581
00:37:14,199 --> 00:37:16,440
too sure again what the defense is up to here,

582
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,000
but it certainly looks like they're going to be running

583
00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:26,840
out of time. They say that tomorrow, maybe Monday, will

584
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:32,599
be the last day of their defense, and it's looking

585
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:37,000
like tomorrow might be the last day of their defense.

586
00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:40,760
So no thirty five witnesses I could see here, only

587
00:37:41,199 --> 00:37:45,159
several today, and I'm guessing several more tomorrow. Right now.

588
00:37:45,199 --> 00:37:48,519
On the defense list witness list, we have someone named Eva,

589
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,320
maybe Eva dubin boy that would be something someone named Michelle,

590
00:37:52,679 --> 00:37:57,559
and somebody named Kelly. So that is the witness list

591
00:37:57,599 --> 00:38:02,360
as we know tomorrow. And if they do finish up

592
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,400
their defense tomorrow like they say they probably will, then

593
00:38:06,559 --> 00:38:09,960
that'll move into Monday and we'll be looking at, you know,

594
00:38:10,039 --> 00:38:14,360
the charging conference and then sentencing. So the jurors look

595
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,840
like they might be up against a hard holiday here

596
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,679
as far as Christmas goes with the way all of

597
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,920
this has fallen into place. So we'll definitely see what

598
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,000
happens tomorrow. But I think it was a good day

599
00:38:27,039 --> 00:38:32,039
for the prosecution today, folks. And I think that loftis

600
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:36,840
the memory expert, didn't do what the defense hoped that

601
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,440
she would do, at least from what I'm getting from

602
00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:43,639
the day so far, the notes that I've seen, the

603
00:38:43,639 --> 00:38:46,920
tweets that I've seen, the different transcripts that are coming out,

604
00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:51,440
it definitely looks like Loftis wasn't a great witness for them,

605
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,440
And at the same time, it looks like the prosecution

606
00:38:56,679 --> 00:39:00,559
got the defense witness to go a lot along with

607
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:05,159
some of the commentary that they were pushing, and that's

608
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,159
never a good thing on the stand. So we'll see

609
00:39:08,159 --> 00:39:11,480
what tomorrow brings. We'll see what sort of witnesses are

610
00:39:11,519 --> 00:39:14,559
brought up. And we're getting into the home stretch here, folks,

611
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,760
we are getting into the home stretch, and hopefully before

612
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:26,599
Christmas we got ourselves the jury's decision, we get the

613
00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:30,719
the whole thing wrapped up, and hopefully when it's all

614
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,119
said and done, not only do we get the jury's decision,

615
00:39:34,679 --> 00:39:41,199
but it comes back as convictions. If you'd like to

616
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,519
contact me, you can do that at Bobby Kapuchi at

617
00:39:43,559 --> 00:39:47,920
ProtonMail dot com. That's bo bb Y c ap You

618
00:39:48,119 --> 00:39:51,679
c c I at ProtonMail dot com. You can also

619
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:56,639
find me on Twitter at Bobby Underscore c ap U

620
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:57,480
c CI