Speaker 1: You're listening to KFI A six on demand. Okay.
Speaker 2: You look around, whether you're in the car, whether you're
Speaker 2: out and about during the day, whatever it is that
Speaker 2: you're doing at work, it seems there is an intense
Speaker 2: amount of anger out there. It's not just with others.
Speaker 2: You're dealing with it as well. You battle with this
Speaker 2: all the time. Anger is something that permeates every part
Speaker 2: of your life in one form or another. And in
Speaker 2: Scripture there's two Greek words and in the New Testament
Speaker 2: that are used as the English word anger. One focuses
Speaker 2: on a means passion and energy, and the other means
Speaker 2: agitated and boiling. And what I don't want you to
Speaker 2: walk away with today is that all anger is bad.
Speaker 1: It's not. Obviously.
Speaker 2: When you have passion and energy and it provokes you
Speaker 2: and promotes and instigates you to want to do something good,
Speaker 2: then that's positive. But if you sit and you become agitated,
Speaker 2: and you sit there boiling with the anger, it's of
Speaker 2: no glory to God. It produces nothing, and it's something
Speaker 2: that continues to sit and fester. It's easy when you
Speaker 2: deal with people when you're in that mental.
Speaker 1: State where everything you've got.
Speaker 2: Is important, and everything everyone else has to do or
Speaker 2: is a part of, is not important. That's selfish is
Speaker 2: what breeds a lot of the negative or unpositive or
Speaker 2: sinful anger, because that kind of pride and attitude, that
Speaker 2: selfishness that says, well, I'm more important, I have things
Speaker 2: to do. This person's in my way. That's what happens
Speaker 2: on the road. The reason why you have a road
Speaker 2: rage is because in your head, you're more important than
Speaker 2: the people around you, and so if someone cuts you off,
Speaker 2: the first thought is, well, don't they know who I am?
Speaker 2: I've got places to be, I've got things to do,
Speaker 2: or they think they're more important than me. It seems
Speaker 2: silly but true. I mean, how many times have you
Speaker 2: been on the road and you feel someone to the.
Speaker 1: Side of you.
Speaker 2: Maybe you're on the highways the byways and there's someone
Speaker 2: coming up next to you and they're going a little faster.
Speaker 2: You don't want them to pass you, and you speed
Speaker 2: up for no real reason except some sort of false competitiveness.
Speaker 2: But it's not just on the road, it's in every
Speaker 2: part of your life. There are things that trigger your anger,
Speaker 2: that frustrates you and that aren't productive. They just agitate.
Speaker 2: They just make you.
Speaker 1: Get in a mindset.
Speaker 2: Where you don't want to deal with anybody except out
Speaker 2: of anger when you're someone asks you a question. And
Speaker 2: I see this of people that are in a business
Speaker 2: where they're called to answer questions, whether they work at
Speaker 2: a grocery store, whether they work at a hardware store,
Speaker 2: whatever it might be, and they're there to answer questions,
Speaker 2: and still when you ask a question, they respond negatively,
Speaker 2: and then it's just pills on, piles on, and continues
Speaker 2: to spin out of control as everyone gets angry. Proverbs
Speaker 2: fifteen to one says a gentle answer turns away wrath,
Speaker 2: but a harsh word stirs up anger. That there's ways
Speaker 2: to respond to people even if you're not happy about
Speaker 2: the question, even if you think it's a stupid question,
Speaker 2: there's still ways to answer to not accelerate or make
Speaker 2: things worse, because you play a part in other people's
Speaker 2: anger as well. And if you stir that up and
Speaker 2: their anger becomes that which is classified as sin, then
Speaker 2: you play a part of that as well. And you
Speaker 2: don't want to get caught up in those types of
Speaker 2: personal prideful arguments two Timothy two, twenty three and twenty four.
Speaker 2: Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments,
Speaker 2: because you know they produce quarrels. And the lord's servant
Speaker 2: must not quarrel. Instead, he must be kind to everyone,
Speaker 2: able to teach, not resentful. What a pattern to follow there,
Speaker 2: don't stir up an argument for the sake of stirring
Speaker 2: up an argument. You may even do this in my name,
Speaker 2: sometimes supposedly for my sake. You may stir up an
Speaker 2: argument thinking that you're helping, when actually you're hurting it.
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that there isn't a legitimate place for
Speaker 2: an argument or a discussion, even one that's filled with passion.
Speaker 2: But be careful the words you use and how you
Speaker 2: participate in a discussion that you're moving it forward, not
Speaker 2: escalating it hotter, bringing it to a boil, because you
Speaker 2: don't want to get caught up in a quarrel for
Speaker 2: the sake of a quarrel. You do want to be
Speaker 2: kind to everyone. Find it interesting that if you read this,
Speaker 2: it says be kind to everyone comma able to teach,
Speaker 2: comma not resentful. So by being kind to people you're
Speaker 2: able to teach, you're in that you have that ability
Speaker 2: to pass along information. If you're in a state where
Speaker 2: you're just in anger, then you're pushing against everything you
Speaker 2: don't want to receive. You're not in the state of receiving.
Speaker 2: You just want people to feel your wrath. You don't
Speaker 2: hear a thing they're saying. Your compassion is gone, and
Speaker 2: it's just that agitated, boiling anger. Now that the God
Speaker 2: given anger, this righteous indignation, is productive. It's there to
Speaker 2: help you deal with the things at hand, problem solving,
Speaker 2: troubleshooting something. It propels you, it pushes you, It excites
Speaker 2: you with passion and energy, but doesn't make you sit
Speaker 2: and fester. And there's examples throughout Scripture of people confronting
Speaker 2: one another that are upset, that are filled with this
Speaker 2: energy and this passion, but not that ugly, agitated, festering,
Speaker 2: boiling anger. Not all anger is a sin. It's when
Speaker 2: it gets to that place that it becomes rage. It
Speaker 2: gets to that place where there's nothing propelling you forward, learning, teaching, experiencing.
Speaker 2: It's just about venting full throttle anger, rage, not listening,
Speaker 2: and that has no place in the kingdom. That serves
Speaker 2: no purpose and helps no one, you included. And when
Speaker 2: you get in that state of anger, you get blind
Speaker 2: to truth and it's just about you. Check that next time,
Speaker 2: next time you're angry. See how it's so much about
Speaker 2: you and no one else. How it's all about how
Speaker 2: you feel and what you're going through, or what you
Speaker 2: need or what you want it or whatever it is,
Speaker 2: And yet you push aside everyone else around you. Anger
Speaker 2: seems to be a lot of anger. And it's not
Speaker 2: that all anger is bad or that all anger is sin.
Speaker 2: As you know, sin means to miss the mark, and
Speaker 2: there is anger that misses the mark. There's anger that
Speaker 2: is caught up in just being angry, just being annoyed,
Speaker 2: just being agitated, rather than something that propels you, that
Speaker 2: moves you forward, that makes you want to solve problems.
Speaker 2: And the key to anger is you will notice that
Speaker 2: anger really becomes sin when it's focused just on you,
Speaker 2: When it's selfish in nature and the purpose, the goal
Speaker 2: is completely shifted and no longer in focus, and it's
Speaker 2: just about the anger. So if you think of it
Speaker 2: this way, that your anger should attack a problem, not
Speaker 2: a person. If your anger attacks a problem, not a person,
Speaker 2: then it's then you're looking to solve something. Then you're
Speaker 2: looking to eradicate a problem, but not just attack a person.
Speaker 2: And in scripture, and this happens so much, we've this
Speaker 2: kind has come up on the show over and over again,
Speaker 2: that there are times where you don't go to a
Speaker 2: person and you feel that they've wronged you or something's happened.
Speaker 1: You don't go to them to talk to them.
Speaker 2: You don't confront them face to face, which is the
Speaker 2: biblical way. You look for, you know, some reason, just
Speaker 2: to smear their name or to be ugly. That doesn't
Speaker 2: it doesn't help. Galatians two eleven through fourteen deals with
Speaker 2: this very thing. When you're opposing someone, you oppose them
Speaker 2: to their face. If you feel someone's in the wrong,
Speaker 2: then you express that to them in a way that
Speaker 2: is helpful and propels you forward. But the anger that
Speaker 2: I see right now, the anger that maybe you're experiencing yourself,
Speaker 2: whether you be the recipient of it or you'd be
Speaker 2: the person sending it out, is that it's only focused
Speaker 2: on the individual. It's only about you and what you
Speaker 2: need to do. Don't they know I need to do X,
Speaker 2: Y and Z. Don't they know that I have to
Speaker 2: do this or that I'm this? And usually that type
Speaker 2: of anger stems from people in general not listening.
Speaker 1: If you're not.
Speaker 2: Attentive, if someone yells at you, in all likelihood, they
Speaker 2: don't feel they're being heard. They feel that something you're
Speaker 2: doing is hurting them or might hurt them, or is
Speaker 2: going to hurt them, and that makes them nervous or scared,
Speaker 2: and it manifests in screaming and anger. Some of the
Speaker 2: most angry people in life are the most meek, are
Speaker 2: the ones that are so fearful of someone hurting them
Speaker 2: that they get loud. And maybe you do this, You
Speaker 2: get loud in hopes of people either backing off or
Speaker 2: running away or not coming too close to hurt you anymore.
Speaker 2: That type of anger doesn't help. So to biblically deal
Speaker 2: with anger, you have to first focus and see and
Speaker 2: admit that your anger comes from a selfish place and
Speaker 2: learn to turn that around to where you are attacking
Speaker 2: that problem and not attacking a person. Aurora, Welcome to
Speaker 2: the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 3: Today is a very special day for my son. He's
Speaker 3: gonna take Body of Christ for the first time.
Speaker 1: Oh wonderful.
Speaker 3: Yes, he's extremely excited. He has been asking for it,
Speaker 3: and uh, I gotta tell you it's a special need kid.
Speaker 1: Okay, And how so he's autistic?
Speaker 3: He is, he actually has celebra policy and the brain damage.
Speaker 3: But contrail hold, the prediction is a very He's able
Speaker 3: to walk, and you know, it's very good in school.
Speaker 3: And he's a very happy child, extremely happy and very emotional.
Speaker 3: So we go to church every Sunday and during communion
Speaker 3: he is always always cry. You get emotional. I said,
Speaker 3: it is happy and uh so we talk with a priest.
Speaker 3: We got some preparation and today is a day and
Speaker 3: he has great expectition.
Speaker 1: Okay, how so what are his expectations?
Speaker 3: Well, and that's what I will try to understand. And
Speaker 3: you say that it's gonna take the body of Christ
Speaker 3: today and then it's going to feel better.
Speaker 2: Oh so he thinks that it's going to be there's
Speaker 2: going to be healing properties too.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm afraid that he has some expectation
Speaker 3: about that, you know, spiritual part of it. And then
Speaker 3: maybe it's me. I'm not understanding him correctly, but I'm
Speaker 3: afraid that he's suspecting something. And if so, I don't
Speaker 3: know what to say after you know, what to tell
Speaker 3: them because we talk every day about it and what
Speaker 3: I told him, I say, yes, you're going to be
Speaker 3: feeling good inside. You're gonna be feeling great inside. You're
Speaker 3: going to be feeling in all love and and you know,
Speaker 3: and I just you know, because it's working very hard
Speaker 3: on correctness. Is problem, is physical problem, and it's learning
Speaker 3: out with it. So many surgery and finally he's walking,
Speaker 3: you know, with his feet on the ground, no more
Speaker 3: on his toes and you know, so it's working very
Speaker 3: hard in order to walk to the altar, because you
Speaker 3: want to walk to the altar and I want to
Speaker 3: be on the wheelchair and he want to be, you know.
Speaker 2: So he sounds wonderful because his spirit has desired to
Speaker 2: me better good And that's a good way to see
Speaker 2: it as well as the gift of having a special
Speaker 2: needs child is first knowing that God trusts you enough
Speaker 2: to oversee and care for somebody, so special is a
Speaker 2: pretty amazing thing.
Speaker 1: Now, is he's seven or eight years old?
Speaker 3: Oh, it's actually ten, so he's longer.
Speaker 1: So he's he's older for the process.
Speaker 2: So he's he's going to be taking in some of
Speaker 2: this information a little differently as well as he's a
Speaker 2: little bit older.
Speaker 1: Was there a purpose for waiting.
Speaker 2: Was his special needs a part of that decision?
Speaker 3: Well, honest, to do, it was more me than himla.
Speaker 3: I was afraid that he was not going to understand.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, it's a tough thing to understand at at
Speaker 2: any age. I mean, there's there's a lot of adults,
Speaker 2: I would say most adults that don't understand truly what's
Speaker 2: going on. And even in the Church, you have differences
Speaker 2: between Catholics and Protestants.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know, Catholics and Lutherans celebrate this particular ce ceremony
Speaker 2: and look at and and truly believe that Christ that
Speaker 2: I Am present truly in the Eucharist now, although they
Speaker 2: see things slightly differently in there, whereas Protestant a lot
Speaker 2: of other Protestant denominations believe that it's a practice to
Speaker 2: be adhered to because I said so that it was
Speaker 2: something to do.
Speaker 1: And memorial and in memory of and.
Speaker 2: So there's different views in this as it stands across
Speaker 2: the board, which makes it difficult for.
Speaker 1: Even adults to comprehend.
Speaker 2: I would say that managed expectations is a good term
Speaker 2: for you to know in this case, and that is
Speaker 2: it's not about being a wet blanket or showering any
Speaker 2: hopes with so much reality that they because the balance
Speaker 2: between understanding God and how God moves in this world
Speaker 2: and that the trials in life and as they happen
Speaker 2: is a difficult one for adults as well, let alone
Speaker 2: a child. So the balance here is to say, is
Speaker 2: to really make sure that he explains what's going on,
Speaker 2: and during the before the first communion, there's time with
Speaker 2: the priest. Correct, yeah, okay, and the priest has explained
Speaker 2: and he's gone to Catechism and all of those things
Speaker 2: to understand. So there's going to be some knowledge that
Speaker 2: comes prior to this, but also to be reinforced by you,
Speaker 2: the understanding that it's not magic. It's not about magic,
Speaker 2: and it's not about that it's like a it's not
Speaker 2: medicine like that.
Speaker 3: It's not going to fix it, no it.
Speaker 2: And it's not that that God doesn't have the power
Speaker 2: to fix things or to fix what we think is broken,
Speaker 2: because oftentimes God says it's not broken. You think it's
Speaker 2: broken because you want it to do X, Y and Z,
Speaker 2: and you know, honest.
Speaker 3: With you, it is probably maybe more my inspectition.
Speaker 1: That's that's interesting.
Speaker 2: So you say that that that you are putting the weight,
Speaker 2: the false expectation on this.
Speaker 3: Uh No, it's I've been, you know, waiting for the
Speaker 3: magic day. You know that one day you wake up
Speaker 3: and everything is gone, you know, and maybe maybe it's me.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what the magic day is. The magic
Speaker 2: day is understanding that this, that this is life, and
Speaker 2: that God is in uh perfection and imperfection by way
Speaker 2: of healing. Now it doesn't mean a full physical healing.
Speaker 2: That means spiritual healing for most. If you remember, Paul
Speaker 2: even had the thorn in the flesh what's referred to
Speaker 2: as a thorn in the flesh in scripture, and he
Speaker 2: asked three times to have it removed, and three times
Speaker 2: God said no. And yet Paul had to see the
Speaker 2: blessing in that understanding that those those privations or the
Speaker 2: lack of something that everyone else seemed to have really
Speaker 2: made Paul who he was. And that's part of the process.
Speaker 2: And so the managing of expectations for both you and
Speaker 2: I love that you're being honest, both you and your boy,
Speaker 2: is to understand what's going on. One the first and
Speaker 2: foremost the reason why you take communion is because I said,
Speaker 2: so in scripture. That's first and foremost, because God said it,
Speaker 2: it's in scripture.
Speaker 1: Therefore you do it. That the obedience is important.
Speaker 2: And secondly, to understand there is something very beautiful despite
Speaker 2: all the disagreement that goes on in the different denominations
Speaker 2: as to what's going on, and if it actually becomes
Speaker 2: the blood and the body and all of these things,
Speaker 2: those are inter body discussions. That the Body of Christ
Speaker 2: discusses those things and argues those things, and that's fine.
Speaker 2: But most importantly is that it was you're told to
Speaker 2: do it, and that it is in remembrance, and that
Speaker 2: it does have power. There is something quite beautiful and
Speaker 2: connective towards that moment. I was constantly breaking bread and
Speaker 2: connecting with people, and this is one of those moments
Speaker 2: that cannot be denied.
Speaker 1: And you don't know what will take place.
Speaker 2: Neither of you, regardless of expectations, know what will take place.
Speaker 2: But most importantly, what is guaranteed to take place is
Speaker 2: the fulfillment of a commitment towards God. And that is
Speaker 2: going to take place. So whether you know anything else
Speaker 2: is going to or not going to, that, the fulfillment
Speaker 2: of a commitment towards God.
Speaker 1: That's what's exciting that that he is.
Speaker 2: Stepping forward, he is wheeling forward, he is limping forward,
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. He is moving forward before God and man
Speaker 2: in his commitment towards God.
Speaker 3: You know, you look at his face and he laid
Speaker 3: up when you're going to church. If he has and
Speaker 3: had that's our priests say, you have thisess in him,
Speaker 3: and you know he feels that, and he has a
Speaker 3: totally different emotion, and you know, and he has his
Speaker 3: own reason and he has his own belief and maybe
Speaker 3: it's different. It's different for me as an adult than him. Uh,
Speaker 3: you know, with the way we expressed. But I know
Speaker 3: that I appreciate that, I appreciate about the Christ, and
Speaker 3: I get closer to you after I got my son.
Speaker 3: He's making me better and you know, and all this
Speaker 3: emotion that he's having, him having it with him, and
Speaker 3: it's an amazing feeling. It's amazing. It's I don't know,
Speaker 3: I don't know how to explain that. You know, somebody
Speaker 3: told me why you go to church every Sunday? That
Speaker 3: church doesn't do anything for me. And and the best
Speaker 3: way that I was able to express, I say, I
Speaker 3: feel like I'm home. I had this big warm huk again.
Speaker 3: You know, around me this, I feel like I'm home.
Speaker 3: That's my best feeling. And I believe markets feel the
Speaker 3: same way. I'm not sure, but they love that. And
Speaker 3: he's happy, and you know, and and now you know
Speaker 3: it's gonna have his body of Christ today and yesterday
Speaker 3: was telling me, Mommy, then I'm gonna have every Sunday
Speaker 3: and every Sunday I can have my body of Christ.
Speaker 3: You know, it's it's beautiful. And you know how many
Speaker 3: other people are so skeptical about that and how they
Speaker 3: are no understanding.
Speaker 2: Oh, they're skepticism in all things, Aurora, and the church
Speaker 2: has been a focus of that. I've been a focus
Speaker 2: of that for a long time. But I want you
Speaker 2: to really deeply enjoy today and take it in for
Speaker 2: all the ceremony and love and fun of it, as
Speaker 2: well as the deep spiritual meaning that goes along with it.
Speaker 2: And sharing that with your boy and experiencing that is
Speaker 2: going to be a very powerful thing. Keep in mind,
Speaker 2: keep in mind that that faith and understanding and a
Speaker 2: relationship with God. Is it not about being perfect in
Speaker 2: this world. It's about understanding and conquering imperfection with the
Speaker 2: understanding of who God is and that there is it's
Speaker 2: not only about this world, but about the world to come.
Speaker 2: But have the most blessed day, and I hope that
Speaker 2: you'll share with us. How today went on a future broadcast,
Speaker 2: Brian to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 4: Good morning, Thank you for taking my call.
Speaker 1: My pleasure.
Speaker 4: I was discussing with a new friend. She is a
Speaker 4: Christian and I am a believer as well, and I
Speaker 4: was mentioning that the church that I'm going to is
Speaker 4: planning on starting a contemporary style worship service. And she said,
Speaker 4: do you have a piano in your church? And I said, well, sure,
Speaker 4: I said, we have a couple. We have one upstairs
Speaker 4: and we have one downstairs. And she said, uh, she says,
Speaker 4: we don't have any instruments in our church. I said, oh,
Speaker 4: that's kind of curious. Do you mind if I asked why?
Speaker 4: And she said.
Speaker 3: That.
Speaker 4: She said that the New Testament church or the New
Speaker 4: the New dispensation is that you know, no instruments in church.
Speaker 4: And I said, but there's lots of references where instruments
Speaker 4: were used to assist in praising God. When David brought
Speaker 4: the arc into the Temple of meeting and you know, oh.
Speaker 1: Sure, there's musicians and Bryan.
Speaker 2: There are times in scripture where priests and musicians are referenced,
Speaker 2: but only the musicians are referenced by name. There's there's
Speaker 2: great importance to music, make a joyful noise. There are
Speaker 2: many references to the importance of music and h and
Speaker 2: even dancing at times as well.
Speaker 4: Ultimately that it came down to the term dispensation. I
Speaker 4: don't know what that.
Speaker 2: Is, Okay, the term dispensation. Think of it this way,
Speaker 2: because there's this gets into different theological understandings of dispensationalism.
Speaker 2: But I want you to think of it this way
Speaker 2: for the sake of your call. I think this will
Speaker 2: be helpful. Think of it as time periods, management of
Speaker 2: time periods, and how God manages those time periods, those
Speaker 2: different dispensations. So think of it this way as and
Speaker 2: I prefer people to think of it this way anyways.
Speaker 2: But if you go through scripture, think of scripture in
Speaker 2: humanity as a child that's being born and being raised
Speaker 2: by God. Not just individual men and women, but think
Speaker 2: of all men and women, the planet as a whole,
Speaker 2: as a child being raised by God. So if you
Speaker 2: look at the beginning and the middle and the ending
Speaker 2: of scripture. You will see that God interacts with the
Speaker 2: world a little differently. And people say, you know, what,
Speaker 2: how come the God of the Old Testament seems so angry?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: And then you know, and how come the God of
Speaker 2: the New Testament seems so flowery? And they try putting
Speaker 2: these things together. Well, a dispensation is sectioning of scripture
Speaker 2: or time periods and the way God interacts interacted. So,
Speaker 2: for instance, if you look at the Old Testament, it
Speaker 2: does seem like God is angry all the time, but
Speaker 2: that's not true.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 2: What it is is, if you think of the world
Speaker 2: as a baby, you may interact with a child an
Speaker 2: infant differently. They're crying, they're needy. You might even pat
Speaker 2: the bottom of a child, but you wouldn't of an
Speaker 2: eighteen year old.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't make sense.
Speaker 2: So as they grow, you interact with your children differently. Correct, Okay,
Speaker 2: So dispensationalism, in a very loose sense is how God
Speaker 2: is interacting with humanity during different times and periods throughout history,
Speaker 2: not only scripturally but now currently. So, which is a
Speaker 2: wonderful way to look at scripture and to understand scripture.
Speaker 2: The problem comes when people use this as a way
Speaker 2: of defining God or defining Christianity or Salvation based on
Speaker 2: these time periods. Some people separate the scriptures and do
Speaker 2: about seven different dispensations or different times or periods where
Speaker 2: God is interacting with his creation. But what I want
Speaker 2: you to see is that none of those define God
Speaker 2: or Salvation or man correctly. You have to see them
Speaker 2: in their totality to understand what's going on. And sometimes
Speaker 2: people get lost in certain That's why you'll hear people say, oh,
Speaker 2: that's not for today, right, Oh, that's the Old Testament.
Speaker 1: That's not for that.
Speaker 2: No, that's ridiculous. God put it in there. It's there
Speaker 2: for today, and it's important. And that's like removing the
Speaker 2: grace out of the Old Testament or removing the law
Speaker 2: out of the New Testament. They both have a place
Speaker 2: and a purpose in both of those chapters of the
Speaker 2: Christian faith by way of Judaism. So you get lost
Speaker 2: if you say, well, it's not for today, which is
Speaker 2: essentially what they're saying.
Speaker 1: Now do they use microphones at all?
Speaker 4: Y Oh you know, I didn't. I've heard you say
Speaker 4: that on the show before. I did not ask that.
Speaker 2: I'm always humored by that that that uh that uh
Speaker 2: using that it's not an instrument or what happen. Usually
Speaker 2: when you get to that point, the church has some unhealthy, uh,
Speaker 2: some unhealthy parts to it. Now, I don't know this church,
Speaker 2: and I don't know how they're using this term, and
Speaker 2: it's coming to me secondhand. But I will tell you this, Brian,
Speaker 2: that if that's a that's a bad sign to me
Speaker 2: about the health of a particular church.
Speaker 1: K f I A M six forty on demand