1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,679 Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer, 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,839 and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my 4 00:00:12,919 --> 00:00:15,800 experience as the brother of a murder victim to help 5 00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:18,600 other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book 6 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:21,440 on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders, and I'm the co 7 00:00:21,519 --> 00:00:24,760 administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 8 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:25,519 Kristin Dilly. 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:27,359 Speaker 3: My name is Kristin Dilly. 10 00:00:27,519 --> 00:00:31,199 Speaker 4: I'm a writer, a researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, 11 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:34,719 as well as the social media manager and co administrator 12 00:00:34,799 --> 00:00:37,799 for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,320 in crime, Bill Thomas. 14 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 3: Welcome to Mind Over Murderer. I'm Kristin Dilly. 15 00:00:44,679 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 2: And I'm Bill Thomas, and I've been. 16 00:00:46,759 --> 00:00:51,039 Speaker 3: Listening to the sultry sounds of my podcast partner singing 17 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,159 three Dog Night as we are about to head on 18 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,600 the air. Would you like to sing a couple of bars, mister. 19 00:00:57,359 --> 00:00:59,479 Speaker 2: Thomas, No, No, I don't think so. I wouldn't want 20 00:00:59,479 --> 00:01:03,520 to embarrass myself. That was really a private Kristin Dilly 21 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,079 only concert. 22 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 3: We do request that anybody who comes to Crime Con 23 00:01:09,159 --> 00:01:11,879 or any other live event, please ask mister Thomas to 24 00:01:11,879 --> 00:01:14,480 sing a couple of bars of whatever happens to be 25 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,120 running through his head, and you too can get the 26 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,079 Bill Thomas Unplugged experience. 27 00:01:19,799 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: There was a reason for that, though, because we were 28 00:01:22,519 --> 00:01:28,519 discussing the case of D. B. Cooper and you had 29 00:01:28,879 --> 00:01:33,519 pointed out that D. B. Cooper looks a lot like 30 00:01:33,799 --> 00:01:37,879 Carry Grant in the movie north By Northwest, which led 31 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,519 to a discussion of favorite Hitchcock films, and then that 32 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,159 led to a discussion of Tippy Hedron, a one of 33 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:51,879 the heroines of Hitchcock films, and that then led to 34 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,359 you telling me that Tippy Hedron, who will be one 35 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:56,799 hundred this year, Is that true? 36 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:57,079 Speaker 3: Yeah? 37 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: I think so, has an animal sanctuary called Shambala. Yep, 38 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,400 And that got me singing the Three Dog Night song. 39 00:02:08,159 --> 00:02:12,039 We're on the road to Shambala. I know this is 40 00:02:12,039 --> 00:02:14,240 a bit of a tease, but I'm actually not going 41 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,960 to sing the song because no one wants to hear 42 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:17,840 Bill Thomas sing. 43 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 3: But everybody does want to hear you podcast, So you're 44 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,360 batting at least fifty percent there, because everybody likes the 45 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,159 Bill Thomas Drive time Radio voice. 46 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,879 Speaker 2: You have a fine voice yourself, Kristen, And why don't 47 00:02:32,879 --> 00:02:35,319 you kick off this here podcast by telling us a 48 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,159 little bit more about what we're going to be talking about. 49 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 3: Well, after much enthusiasm about this case from our listeners, 50 00:02:41,319 --> 00:02:45,080 we finally decided it was time to cover the only 51 00:02:45,439 --> 00:02:51,039 unsolved commercial hijacking or probably more accurately, skyjacking in history, 52 00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:56,680 and that is the case of d. D. Cooper, who 53 00:02:56,719 --> 00:02:59,159 you were interested to learn that's not. 54 00:02:59,199 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 2: Actually his No, this really surprised me, and I have 55 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,759 to thank you for your as usual outstanding research. D B. 56 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,639 Cooper is a misnomer. He never referred to himself as 57 00:03:10,719 --> 00:03:11,400 D B. Cooper. 58 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 3: That's right. He referred to himself as Dan Cooper, but 59 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,960 the media offered some misinformation, and as so often happens, 60 00:03:20,719 --> 00:03:24,759 it became a part of legend and lore and history, 61 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,199 and so now we call it the D. B. Cooper case. 62 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,240 But D. B. Cooper was never actually the guy's name. 63 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:32,439 It was Dan Cooper. 64 00:03:32,879 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 2: So what did Dan Cooper aka D B. Cooper get 65 00:03:37,439 --> 00:03:38,599 himself up to here? 66 00:03:39,879 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 3: Dan Cooper decided it would be a great idea to 67 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,599 skyjack a plane. So on Thanksgiving Eve, on flight three 68 00:03:46,639 --> 00:03:49,520 oh five, which was bound for Seattle from Portland, Oregon, 69 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,639 Dan Cooper gave a note to a stewardess which demanded 70 00:03:54,639 --> 00:03:59,000 two hundred thousand dollars in four parachutes. He indicated that 71 00:03:59,039 --> 00:04:02,159 he had a bomb on him, which of course would 72 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:06,919 get anybody's attention, and after a number of hijinks, he 73 00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:11,280 jumped out of the plane and parachuted to freedom, taking 74 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,879 the money with him. Sounds a little bit like a 75 00:04:13,919 --> 00:04:15,680 modern day Robin Hood. 76 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,519 Speaker 2: And two hundred thousand dollars doesn't sound like a lot 77 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,399 of money, but it was a fair amount of money 78 00:04:20,439 --> 00:04:24,000 back then in nineteen seventy one. One of the things 79 00:04:24,079 --> 00:04:26,839 I always thought was fascinating, and this case has interested 80 00:04:26,879 --> 00:04:29,920 me since I was a kid, was that at the time, 81 00:04:30,399 --> 00:04:36,000 that particular aircraft allowed them to lower a rear set 82 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,399 of steps. And I don't know if our listeners have 83 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,000 ever been on a plane like this where at the 84 00:04:41,079 --> 00:04:43,759 tail a set of stairs could be lowered, and then 85 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,319 sometimes if you were exiting onto the tarmac, as they say, 86 00:04:47,639 --> 00:04:51,240 you would go down these rear stairs. Apparently, what he 87 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,600 did was he had the stairs lowered while he was 88 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:00,480 in flight. He allegedly jumped out of the plane from 89 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,560 the rear set of stairs. They later changed the design 90 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,480 so you couldn't open those stairs in flight. 91 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 3: And that's actually one of the interesting sort of lasting 92 00:05:11,199 --> 00:05:15,240 impressions on history that this case has made. Before we 93 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,199 get into the basics of the case, though you had 94 00:05:17,199 --> 00:05:19,720 said that you were familiar with the case already, where 95 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,079 did you hear about the case. 96 00:05:21,399 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: Of course, I'm old enough to remember this happening when 97 00:05:24,639 --> 00:05:28,000 I was a kid. It was all over the newspapers 98 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,920 and television, and I remember we went to the library 99 00:05:30,959 --> 00:05:33,600 a lot when I was a kid, the school library 100 00:05:33,639 --> 00:05:37,560 and the town library, and I remember reading articles with 101 00:05:37,759 --> 00:05:42,199 not necessarily photographs, but drawings really of how he might 102 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,800 have gotten away with this, like how he lowered the 103 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,519 stairs and avoided the jet blast that would have injured 104 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,600 someone or maybe even killed them, That the rear stairs 105 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,720 allowed him to jump out and get below where the 106 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,680 exhaust would be coming out of the jets as the 107 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,199 plane was flying. I remember being completely fascinated by this case. 108 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,920 We talked about this a little bit off air, the 109 00:06:05,959 --> 00:06:11,079 idea that Dan Cooper he didn't hurt anyone, he didn't 110 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,480 commit any acts of violence. He made threats obviously, and 111 00:06:15,519 --> 00:06:18,639 he showed the flight attendant something that may or may 112 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,000 not have been a bomb, but he almost took on 113 00:06:21,199 --> 00:06:25,120 a mythic quality like a folk hero because he had 114 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,480 stolen money from the man. Yes, but he hadn't heard 115 00:06:28,519 --> 00:06:30,160 anyone doing it. 116 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,879 Speaker 3: It is a case that I was not familiar with 117 00:06:33,079 --> 00:06:37,360 until I was browsing the stacks in our local library 118 00:06:37,519 --> 00:06:39,319 a couple of years back. I was going through the 119 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,759 true crime section, of course, and I saw a really 120 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,839 wonderful book that is an excellent resource on the case 121 00:06:45,879 --> 00:06:50,199 by Jeffrey Gray, called Skyjack, and I figured this sounds interesting. 122 00:06:50,439 --> 00:06:53,519 Let me pull it, and I was captivated by it. 123 00:06:54,079 --> 00:06:58,519 So after a mention of dB Cooper in a previous episode, 124 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,199 we had posited the quest to our listeners, would y'all 125 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,639 like for us to do an episode on dB Cooper 126 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:09,560 And the answer was resoundingly yes. So here we are. Boy, 127 00:07:10,079 --> 00:07:13,279 is there a lot to tell about the dB Cooper case. 128 00:07:13,319 --> 00:07:16,439 So this may be more than one episode, but let 129 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,040 me go ahead and start with the basics on the case. 130 00:07:19,639 --> 00:07:23,600 As we said, it was a Northwest orient flight three 131 00:07:23,639 --> 00:07:27,120 to ZHO five bound for Seattle from Portland, Oregon, on 132 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,040 November twenty fourth, nineteen seventy one, and a man named 133 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,639 Dan Cooper sat down in the back of the plane 134 00:07:34,319 --> 00:07:37,000 and told the stewardess that he happened to have a 135 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:41,920 bomb in his Atta Shay case. The FBI, on its 136 00:07:42,199 --> 00:07:46,720 public website FBI dot gov, has a page of information 137 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,319 on the dB Cooper case, as it does most of 138 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,240 its notorious cases, and it actually includes an interesting gallery 139 00:07:53,279 --> 00:07:56,720 of photos. They're right up on. The case is very sparse. 140 00:07:57,199 --> 00:08:00,319 I guess no surprise there because the FBI has never 141 00:08:00,399 --> 00:08:03,560 solved the dB Cooper case, so I don't suppose that 142 00:08:03,639 --> 00:08:06,079 they would want to highlight the fact that they've never 143 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,439 managed to arrest anybody for it. But the FBI site 144 00:08:09,519 --> 00:08:13,600 is quick to note that the dB portion of dB 145 00:08:13,839 --> 00:08:18,480 Cooper was They called it a myth manufactured by the press. 146 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,839 They said that the guy identified himself as Dan Cooper 147 00:08:21,879 --> 00:08:25,240 when he bought his plane ticket. He did not identify 148 00:08:25,319 --> 00:08:30,600 himself as dB. The FBI site continues to describe dB 149 00:08:30,759 --> 00:08:36,840 Cooper this way. White male, six foot one one seventy 150 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:42,720 to one seventy five, age mid forties, with olive complexion, 151 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,720 brown eyes, black hair, conventional cut, parted on the left. 152 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,519 He's described as also wearing a business suit with a 153 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,039 white shirt, a black clip on tie that would later 154 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,679 become the source of a lot of forensic investigation, and 155 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:02,759 then a horn rimmed sunglass. Sounds like a pretty clean 156 00:09:02,919 --> 00:09:04,759 cut business guide. 157 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,519 Speaker 2: Type, Yeah, Soka, nineteen seventy one, so very straight looking 158 00:09:08,639 --> 00:09:10,039 by contemporary standards. 159 00:09:11,039 --> 00:09:15,279 Speaker 3: Now, the first time that I saw this widely circulated 160 00:09:15,519 --> 00:09:17,960 sketch of Dan Cooper, and we'll put a link in 161 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,919 our show notes, he reminded me of the way that 162 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,879 Carrie Grant is dressed in my very favorite Alfred Hitchcock film, 163 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,840 the nineteen fifty nine hit north By Northwest. If you 164 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,720 look at a side by side comparison of Grant in 165 00:09:36,759 --> 00:09:41,720 the film and the dB Cooper suspect sketch, they are 166 00:09:41,759 --> 00:09:47,279 wearing the same hairstyle, the same suit, the same sunglasses. 167 00:09:48,039 --> 00:09:52,879 I immediately wondered whether dB Cooper in nineteen seventy one 168 00:09:53,159 --> 00:09:58,559 could have taken his style cues from Carrie Grant. So 169 00:09:58,639 --> 00:10:01,080 when I was writing up our case notes, I put 170 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,039 a little image putting the two of them side by side, 171 00:10:04,039 --> 00:10:07,240 and I sent it to Bill with our case notes. Bill, 172 00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:09,320 what did you think when you saw both those images 173 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:10,159 side by side? 174 00:10:10,279 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 2: He does look a lot like Carry Grant, and north 175 00:10:13,039 --> 00:10:16,879 By Northwest is my favorite Alfred Hitchcock film as well, 176 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,840 and I had mentioned as an undergrad we had studied 177 00:10:19,919 --> 00:10:23,919 Alfred Hitchcock and so we'd seen fourteen movies. But north 178 00:10:23,919 --> 00:10:27,159 By Northwest is my absolute favorite. And the graphic you 179 00:10:27,279 --> 00:10:31,919 have too of Carry Grant running away in the cornfield 180 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,679 I've ever seen the movie being chased by a suspicious 181 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,519 looking biplane, which is one minute is rup dusting and 182 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,519 the next minute is trying to kill Carry Grant. The 183 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,399 whole thing just made me laugh. And on top of 184 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:51,960 everything else, he hijacked a Northwest Airlines flight, so it's 185 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,320 a very interesting thing. Maybe it's not a coincidence. 186 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 3: I'm obviously not the only person who noted those links. 187 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,639 There's a really ex Lynn article on the dB Cooper 188 00:11:02,759 --> 00:11:07,080 Hijack site to his Dbcooper hijack dot com that covers 189 00:11:07,279 --> 00:11:09,840 all of the potential links between the movie and the 190 00:11:09,879 --> 00:11:12,919 real life crime, starting with the fact that they look 191 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,759 very similar, moving on to the fact that Roger Thornhill, 192 00:11:16,879 --> 00:11:21,879 Carry Grant's character walks to an airport and walks past 193 00:11:21,879 --> 00:11:24,559 a line of people standing at the Northwest Orient Airlines 194 00:11:24,639 --> 00:11:27,720 death is the airline that was hijacked. They talk about 195 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,720 the fact that both men drank bourbon. There's a whole 196 00:11:30,879 --> 00:11:33,639 entire list of things. So if you're looking to go 197 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,559 down a dB Cooper rabbit hole, I highly suggest that 198 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,799 one is. It's so funny and it's so interesting, and 199 00:11:40,919 --> 00:11:46,320 it does make you wonder if dB Cooper himself had 200 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,720 been an Alfred Hitchcock fan or a Kerry Grant fan, 201 00:11:49,799 --> 00:11:52,039 or maybe a little bit of both, and decided to 202 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,159 kind of take his cues and design his crime around 203 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,720 this particular character. I think it's a fun idea. 204 00:11:58,399 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 2: Dbcooper hijacked dot Com is a site will also include 205 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,759 in our show notes. It's really interesting and Kristen's clearly 206 00:12:06,799 --> 00:12:10,399 been down some of these rabbit holes in researching this 207 00:12:10,519 --> 00:12:12,159 episode of Mind Over Murder. 208 00:12:12,639 --> 00:12:15,279 Speaker 3: I would say I've done at least at least twelve 209 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,639 fourteen hours of research on this over the last couple 210 00:12:18,799 --> 00:12:22,840 of days here, and it's very interesting. So yeah, highly 211 00:12:22,879 --> 00:12:26,759 recommend just everything that you can find about dB Cooper, 212 00:12:26,799 --> 00:12:29,919 but we will put the best sites and the best 213 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,320 sources and reporting in our show notes. I do want 214 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,879 to mention something in another thing that I know Bill 215 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,879 thought was a little funny. I relied really heavily on 216 00:12:38,919 --> 00:12:43,919 some excellent reporting from Popular Mechanics, of all magazines, they 217 00:12:44,039 --> 00:12:48,080 did a number of really great recent stuff on dB Cooper, 218 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,519 and they had some of the best reporting out there. 219 00:12:51,279 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 2: I was surprised by something. First of all, I used 220 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,960 to read Popular Mechanics when I was a kid. I 221 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,440 was very surprised. There are very recent articles from twenty 222 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,120 twenty three, twenty four all about dB Cooper, and I 223 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,639 just hadn't realized that in the popular imagination there was 224 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,159 still an interest in this case, which is what more 225 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,080 than fifty years ago. 226 00:13:13,639 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 3: There is still so much here, And I think it 227 00:13:15,759 --> 00:13:18,840 goes to this sort of popular idea of this is 228 00:13:18,879 --> 00:13:23,399 a mysterious, interesting, cool kind of criminal. He's not a 229 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:28,120 serial killer, he is not something really distasteful. He's a 230 00:13:28,159 --> 00:13:31,320 guy who pulled off what is I think, a pretty cool, 231 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,480 largely victimless crime. Nobody got hurt. The mythologizing of dB 232 00:13:36,639 --> 00:13:41,440 Cooper is definitely something that has continued and probably will 233 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,600 still continue even if we never figure out who dB 234 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:45,679 Cooper actually was. 235 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit more about the mechanics 236 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,039 of how he hijacked the plane. 237 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,639 Speaker 3: Okay, so D. B. Cooper, who may or may not 238 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,399 have taken his cues from the nineteen fifty nine Hitchcock film. 239 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,360 He boarded the seven twenty seven in seed a teen e. 240 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,159 At the back of the plane, he ordered a bourbon 241 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,519 in soda, again another nod to Roger Thornhill. After three 242 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,840 o'clock after takeoff, he handed twenty three year old stewardess 243 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,799 Florence Schaffner a note stating that he had a bomb 244 00:14:16,879 --> 00:14:19,240 in his briefcase and he wanted her to sit with 245 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,320 him to take down his demands to the captain. Now, 246 00:14:23,519 --> 00:14:27,000 this is interesting. I saw two names for this stewardess, 247 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,679 so I'm not sure which reporting was correct. I saw 248 00:14:30,039 --> 00:14:34,240 Florence Schaffner and I saw Tina Mucklow, So I'm wondering 249 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,679 if some of the reporting got conflated somewhere or another. 250 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,399 But I did see two names, and I just want 251 00:14:39,399 --> 00:14:41,639 to note those are both names that I saw. 252 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,399 Speaker 2: There would have been several flight attendants or stewardesses as 253 00:14:46,399 --> 00:14:49,200 they called them back then, aboard the aircraft, and as 254 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,919 you explain a little bit, more people were actually permitted 255 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,480 to exit the plane, which I'd completely forgotten about. 256 00:14:56,679 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 3: dB Cooper was carrying a VFBI kind of just gcribes it, 257 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,039 whether snotally is being a cheap leather attache case that 258 00:15:04,159 --> 00:15:08,440 he opened to reveal a massive wires and red colored sticks. 259 00:15:08,919 --> 00:15:12,240 He demanded two hundred thousand dollars in twenty dollars bills, 260 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,559 and then he wanted four parachutes as well. 261 00:15:16,799 --> 00:15:17,279 Speaker 2: Interesting. 262 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, it took some scrambling for the two hundred thousand 263 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,720 dollars in the four parachutes to be gathered, so the 264 00:15:24,759 --> 00:15:27,960 plane ended up circling the Puget Sound for a couple 265 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,000 of hours. But once the plane actually landed in Seattle, 266 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:36,840 dB Cooper let thirty six passengers d plane and he 267 00:15:36,919 --> 00:15:40,039 exchanged the passengers for the money and the parachutes. He 268 00:15:40,519 --> 00:15:43,960 kept the youngest stewardess, Tina mclough on board. He also 269 00:15:44,039 --> 00:15:47,600 kept the pilot, the co pilot, the flight engineer, and 270 00:15:47,639 --> 00:15:51,960 he told the pilot, we're flying to Mexico City, which 271 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:53,960 I mean, okay, I guess if you're going to flee 272 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:59,000 the country, sure, Mexico City. I can't think of any 273 00:15:59,039 --> 00:16:02,399 better place to go. The interesting part I think about 274 00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:05,159 the Mexico City destination is the fact that it would 275 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,279 have necessitated refueling in Reno. 276 00:16:09,399 --> 00:16:12,879 Speaker 2: I thought that was odd as well. Multiple stops this 277 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,039 part I had completely forgotten about where he actually had 278 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,039 them land the plane. Most of the passengers are removed, 279 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,519 and then he's left with kind of a skeleton crew, 280 00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:26,320 if you will. And then this flight to Mexico City 281 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,799 at least allegedly requires another stop. And all the while 282 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,879 I'm thinking to myself, this all seemed so risky from 283 00:16:33,879 --> 00:16:37,080 a Dan Cooper perspective, because every time you're on the 284 00:16:37,159 --> 00:16:39,960 ground there's a good chance that they might try to 285 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,679 stop the plane and take control of it. 286 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,879 Speaker 3: Why wouldn't you order the plane refueled while you were 287 00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:48,559 on the ground, exchanging your passengers for your parachutes and 288 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:49,639 your money. 289 00:16:49,799 --> 00:16:51,919 Speaker 2: I don't know. This part's very strange. 290 00:16:52,159 --> 00:16:55,519 Speaker 3: After eight o'clock PM, when they're on that flight between 291 00:16:55,639 --> 00:17:00,600 Saddle and Reno for refueling, dB cooperumped out of the 292 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,880 plane via the lowered aft stairs with the parachute and 293 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,160 the ransom money. And when the plane landed in Reno, 294 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:13,160 no hijacker, no ransom. The only thing left was some 295 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,799 trace evidence. So according to theistory dot com, right up 296 00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:20,200 on the case, I'm going to go and quote directly 297 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,160 from them. Here cannily, Cooper had taken his ransom note 298 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,680 back from the flight attendant, so investigators were unable to 299 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,200 examine it. Cooper did leave a few traces behind, though, 300 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,799 cigarette butts, a hair on the headrest of his seat, 301 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,920 and a clip on necktie which he tore from his 302 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:43,079 collar before hurdling himself from the plane. Unfortunately, the FBI 303 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,680 could not get any fingerprints from the items. 304 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,039 Speaker 2: One of the things that made me laugh out loud 305 00:17:48,079 --> 00:17:51,799 when I was reading this part of your research cigarette butts. 306 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,960 I completely forgot that Back when I was a kid, 307 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:01,440 adults could smoke on board airplanes, and now you think. 308 00:18:01,559 --> 00:18:04,319 Speaker 3: Really whole different time. 309 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, this guy's smoking cigarettes and drinking a bourbon. It's 310 00:18:09,279 --> 00:18:12,079 just there's something about it that feels like such a throwback. 311 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,319 Speaker 3: He tore off that clip on necktie, and I'm imagining 312 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:21,640 him like lowering the stairs, shouldering the parachute, edging out 313 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,119 with the money and the briefcase, and then stopping to 314 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,920 just pause, yanks off the necktie, throws it and then 315 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,680 throws himself out of the plane. Like it feels very 316 00:18:29,799 --> 00:18:31,720 It feels very theatrical in a way. 317 00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really does, and of course I had worn 318 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,559 a clip on necktie since again I was probably getting 319 00:18:38,559 --> 00:18:42,839 my confirmation or something. The whole thing just feels like 320 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:44,720 such a different time and place. 321 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 3: I do wonder about the clip on part of the necktie. 322 00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:50,759 If you're a business person, or if you dressed like 323 00:18:50,799 --> 00:18:53,599 a business person like dB Cooper was, wouldn't you know 324 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,359 how to tie around necktie? What do you need a 325 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,079 clip on for? Yeah? 326 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 2: They were common though back then, actually when we were 327 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,640 going to church every Sunday and that sort of thing. 328 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,319 Oh no, it just like I said, it was one 329 00:19:07,319 --> 00:19:10,000 of those details like the cigarettes, where I just laughed 330 00:19:10,039 --> 00:19:12,839 out loud. I thought, wow, this really was more than 331 00:19:12,839 --> 00:19:13,720 fifty years ago. 332 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 3: So we're going to come back to the tie in 333 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,480 just a couple of minutes because there is some interesting 334 00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:22,200 stuff there. We've covered the basics of the skyjacking, so 335 00:19:22,319 --> 00:19:24,440 now the next section that I want to talk about 336 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,880 is the manhunt for dB Cooper and then what actually 337 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,799 happened to the cash The best book that I have 338 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,759 seen so far on the subject. And there are people 339 00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:36,839 who are free to disagree with me. They'd be wrong, 340 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:38,559 but you can disagree if you want. 341 00:19:38,839 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 2: I should, she said, with total humility. 342 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 3: Yes, for my money, the best book on dB Cooper 343 00:19:44,599 --> 00:19:47,720 so far is from Jeffrey Gray, who wrote Skyjack The 344 00:19:47,799 --> 00:19:50,799 Hunt for dB Cooper. It was published in September of 345 00:19:50,839 --> 00:19:54,240 twenty eleven, and he told the story of the hijacking 346 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,920 to NPR's Guy raz on All things considered. So I 347 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,279 want to go ahead and quote from him here as 348 00:20:00,319 --> 00:20:03,079 I'm moving through this next section of the story. So 349 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,039 he's talking about the size and the scope of the 350 00:20:06,079 --> 00:20:10,000 man hunt for dB Cooper. Quote. It was an epic 351 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,680 manhunt that followed and one of the biggest in the 352 00:20:12,799 --> 00:20:15,720 nation's history, and one of the first things they tried 353 00:20:15,759 --> 00:20:18,839 to do in addition to figuring out who he was 354 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,559 where he landed. Now, this area of terrain to search 355 00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:26,279 is some of the most remote, if not the most remote, 356 00:20:26,279 --> 00:20:29,559 in this country. It's where Bigfoot lives. So they went 357 00:20:29,599 --> 00:20:33,160 about trying to pinpoint when the hijacker actually jumped, and 358 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,440 they composed all kind of different maps. What they were 359 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,400 able to determine after everything had been transcribed, is that 360 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,720 the hijacker jumped between the minutes of eight twelve and 361 00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:46,160 eight seventeen PM for nineteen seventy one. That's pretty good 362 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,240 to pinpoint five minutes. I think is pretty impressive. The 363 00:20:49,279 --> 00:20:51,720 only problem is that if you're pinpointing a jump from 364 00:20:51,759 --> 00:20:54,480 a plane moving two hundred miles an hour on a 365 00:20:54,519 --> 00:20:58,279 flight path that's fifteen miles wide, where you're searching is 366 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,720 hundreds of square miles long. End quote. I don't have 367 00:21:01,799 --> 00:21:04,359 mathematical brain, so that wouldn't have occurred to me like 368 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:04,920 at all. 369 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 2: But you begin to realize this isn't just like one area. 370 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,519 You're really searching a long, wide path, which is why 371 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,759 as you get into more detail here, this becomes incredibly 372 00:21:16,839 --> 00:21:20,039 challenging in terms of trying to figure out where did 373 00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:24,519 this guy land and where did the backpack with the 374 00:21:24,599 --> 00:21:25,240 money go. 375 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 3: There seems to be true. Schools have thought about what 376 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,240 could have happened to dB Cooper after he jumped out 377 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,200 of the plane. Either he survived or he didn't. Jeffrey 378 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,200 Gray explained to NPR why he thinks dB Cooper may 379 00:21:38,279 --> 00:21:42,559 actually have survived that jump from the airplane. And I 380 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,519 actually would have had to have been convinced that somebody 381 00:21:45,519 --> 00:21:48,200 could have survived that. But when he puts it like this, 382 00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:50,680 I can see how he did. So. This is a 383 00:21:50,759 --> 00:21:54,400 quote from Jeffrey Gray to NPR quote. One of the 384 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,240 things I found in the FBI files was that FBI 385 00:21:57,319 --> 00:22:01,839 agents interviewed parachute experts directly to the hijacking, who told 386 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,640 them surviving that kind of jump, even in the trees, 387 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,640 was possible. And one of the things we now know 388 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,480 about the case is that the hijacker likely landed a 389 00:22:10,519 --> 00:22:13,880 little bit farther south than what the FEDS originally thought, 390 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,960 and that area is not as harsh as the legend 391 00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:19,640 of D. B. Cooper portrays it. To me, it's a 392 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,119 little bit marshy, it's closer to the Columbia River. It 393 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,759 is not a bad place for a parachute jump. 394 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,279 Speaker 2: The one thing that's a little bit strange is that 395 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,720 if he jumped out after eight PM, had to be 396 00:22:31,839 --> 00:22:35,799 dark by that point. I'm not sure if dB Cooper 397 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,119 is just lucky or has really planned this out to 398 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,839 the nth degree, because as you get into now, the 399 00:22:43,039 --> 00:22:47,160 area where they now think Cooper landed is a place 400 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,799 where you probably could have survived a parachute jump if 401 00:22:50,839 --> 00:22:51,799 he knew what you were doing. 402 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,079 Speaker 3: I'm just thinking, from my point of view, I would 403 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,480 not know when precisely to jump out of that moving plane. 404 00:22:59,559 --> 00:23:01,839 I knew, Okay, I've got to jump between eight twelve 405 00:23:01,839 --> 00:23:03,559 and eight seventeen. If I've got to jump at eight 406 00:23:03,559 --> 00:23:07,039 fifteen exactly, I still wouldn't. I would be too rattled 407 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,799 trying to do all of these things and track the 408 00:23:09,799 --> 00:23:11,720 money and make sure I have my parachutes and everything. 409 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,880 You'd have to be really cool, calm and collected to 410 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,400 be able to pull off that jump and jump right 411 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,200 at the time where you know you're going to be 412 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,720 at a survivable area of land. I feel like this 413 00:23:22,759 --> 00:23:26,079 guy had to have ajnees of steel to be able 414 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:26,559 to do that. 415 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 2: Having jumped out of a plane twice with no hijacking involved, 416 00:23:31,599 --> 00:23:35,359 the amount of adrenaline that's flowing when you're actually ready 417 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,200 to jump out of an aircraft is pretty high to 418 00:23:38,279 --> 00:23:41,839 start with. This guy pulled off a pretty amazing feat 419 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:42,920 if he survived. 420 00:23:43,279 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 3: You've jumped out of an airplane twice twice. 421 00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:48,799 Speaker 2: That was my high school graduation present. My folks asked 422 00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:51,880 me what I wanted for my high school graduation, and 423 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,039 I said I wanted to jump out of an airplane 424 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:55,279 will willingly. 425 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,799 Speaker 3: You willingly wanted to absolutely. 426 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,759 Speaker 2: Know And my dad jumped out with me twice. 427 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 3: Oh that No, that is terrifying to me. You could 428 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,440 not get me jumping out of a moving plane for 429 00:24:08,519 --> 00:24:09,559 anything in the world. 430 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,279 Speaker 2: No, we did it twice. It was really fun. 431 00:24:13,079 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 3: Wow. Okay, well that's a new piece of trivia for me. 432 00:24:19,079 --> 00:24:21,279 Sound off in the comments if you expected bills who 433 00:24:21,319 --> 00:24:24,000 have been a skydiver. That's pretty cool. 434 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 2: It was fun. Wow. 435 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,039 Speaker 3: Okay, So wait where what where was this? 436 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 2: Like? This was out in western Massachusetts. I attended the 437 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,720 University of Massachusetts at Amherst undergrad and my dad actually 438 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,839 was working on his doctor at UMass at the same time. 439 00:24:40,039 --> 00:24:43,720 Jumped on like a beautiful Saturday morning, and then we 440 00:24:43,759 --> 00:24:45,240 did it again a couple months later. 441 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 3: Wow, that's really cool. 442 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 2: All right, you're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be 443 00:24:50,240 --> 00:25:00,759 right back after this word from our sponsors. We're back 444 00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:02,039 here at mindover Murder. 445 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,079 Speaker 3: As Bill can tell you, maybe this is something that 446 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,119 you can do and survive. There. Did he survive? Did 447 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,440 he not? The evidence to indicate that he did actually 448 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,960 survive the jump is that the money started turning up 449 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,720 in nineteen eighty I'm going to get quote from some 450 00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:25,200 reporting here from Popular Mechanics. Quote, eight year old Brian 451 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,640 Ingram was digging in the sand on the banks of 452 00:25:27,839 --> 00:25:31,359 Washington's Columbia River when he found a bundle of rotting 453 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,799 twenty dollars bills totaling five eight hundred dollars. When his 454 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,960 parents contacted the police, they learned the serial numbers on 455 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,880 the cash match those from the stash given to D. B. Cooper. 456 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,880 Aside from the few items left behind on the plane, 457 00:25:46,079 --> 00:25:49,440 this is the only material evidence found from the hijacking. 458 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,839 Six years after he discovered the money, Ingram was allowed 459 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,359 to keep two thousand, seven hundred and sixty dollars of it. 460 00:25:56,599 --> 00:25:59,240 And here's the part where you got to admire this 461 00:25:59,279 --> 00:26:01,599 guy's sensit time. I mean, in two thousand and eight, 462 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,480 he sold fifteen of the fragmented twenty dollars bills at 463 00:26:05,519 --> 00:26:09,400 auction for thirty seven thousand, four hundred and thirty three 464 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,119 dollars and thirty eight cents. 465 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:16,759 Speaker 2: Highly collectible, so collectible. And he was a little kid 466 00:26:16,759 --> 00:26:18,960 when he found this money. I think that's pretty cool. 467 00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:21,400 I was trying to figure out how they arrived at 468 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,079 two thousand and seven hundred and sixty dollars of five 469 00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:29,599 eight hundred dollars that he recovered. I was that one 470 00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:31,279 kind of maybe scratch my head. 471 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, is that? I don't know. Maybe that's half. I 472 00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:36,720 don't have a calculator on me right at the moment, 473 00:26:36,839 --> 00:26:39,200 even though I should try not to have my phone 474 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,079 near me when we're podcasting. But I'm wondering if that's half. 475 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,359 I'll let you figure it out, since you've got your phone. 476 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,599 Speaker 2: No, it's close, but it's not half. I'm not sure. 477 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,799 Interesting two times twenty seven to sixty would be fifty 478 00:26:52,839 --> 00:26:53,400 five to twenty. 479 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:54,799 Speaker 3: I don't know. 480 00:26:55,079 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe there was FBI handling charge. I 481 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,759 don't know. Yes, sorry, kid, we have to take a commission. 482 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,079 Speaker 3: We take a little cut of this for handling charges. 483 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,720 I love that. Yeah, you had actually mentioned something a 484 00:27:09,759 --> 00:27:13,160 couple of minutes ago that I also found some research 485 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,680 for that I think is really interesting. The skyjacking had 486 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,599 a lasting impact on the state of air travel in 487 00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:22,920 at least one form, and so again i'm quoting here 488 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,759 from Popular Mechanics. In the wake of the skyjacking, the 489 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,240 FAA ordered that Cooper vanes, named after the elusive dB, 490 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,559 must be installed in all Boeing seven to twenty seven aircraft. 491 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,640 A Cooper vein is a small latch fitted to the outside. 492 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,839 Of all planes with rear stairs, the latch prevents anyone 493 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,160 from opening the door mid flight, just as dB Cooper 494 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,960 did as he leaped into the air and vanished into obscurity. 495 00:27:50,319 --> 00:27:50,880 End quote. 496 00:27:51,319 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 2: I did know about this. I remember reading about it 497 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,079 in some of my library excursions from many years ago, 498 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,920 because I have been on airport planes that do have 499 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,039 those rear stairs. But I came to understand you can't 500 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,240 open those rear stairs from inside the plane anymore. They 501 00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:10,160 have to be opened from the outside, and that's directly 502 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,680 as a result of this hijacking. 503 00:28:12,079 --> 00:28:17,079 Speaker 3: It's so interesting to see how certain crimes have caused 504 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,680 major impacts down the road. And I think that's really 505 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,599 interesting because it certainly wouldn't have occurred to me that 506 00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:27,559 the reason we have X latch on X door is 507 00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:31,519 because a guy wants sky jacked two hundred thousand dollars 508 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,240 and parachuted out of a plane. That is the sort 509 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:35,960 of thing though, that if I told my students, they 510 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,400 would be like, Wow, that's cool. 511 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 2: We've talked about this before on Mind Over Murder. The 512 00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:45,799 tailanol case is the reason that we have all of 513 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:51,680 these tamper proof bottels and cans and not just for medicine, 514 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,519 but for food. This is all as a result of 515 00:28:54,559 --> 00:28:58,000 that one case. Yeah, it used to be that you 516 00:28:58,079 --> 00:29:01,759 could open up a medicine bottel or a jar of 517 00:29:01,759 --> 00:29:05,160 food or whatever and directly access the contents, and of 518 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,519 course those things are no longer true as a result 519 00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:08,559 of that one case. 520 00:29:09,119 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 3: It's funny. As a teacher, it became weird for me 521 00:29:13,319 --> 00:29:15,799 when I realized I was teaching a group of kids 522 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,759 that didn't remember nine to eleven and then weren't alive 523 00:29:20,079 --> 00:29:22,839 for nine to eleven, and then like more recently, it's 524 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,200 kids who don't even know why nine eleven happened, Like 525 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,880 they have no concept of it. And so I was 526 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,519 explaining to them one day about why we have to 527 00:29:32,559 --> 00:29:36,240 take our shoes off when we get in line for 528 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,720 TSA and nobody knew why that was. I was like, 529 00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:42,319 just out of curiosity, do you guys know why that is? 530 00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:45,039 And they're going to let you know, and I said, 531 00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:47,039 because a guy tried to take a shoe bomb onto 532 00:29:47,119 --> 00:29:49,640 an airplane after nine to eleven, And they were floored. 533 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,880 They were like, what somebody tried to do that? What 534 00:29:52,359 --> 00:29:54,519 this kid gets on his laptop and he's looking to 535 00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:56,640 see if there was a successful shoe bombing, and I 536 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,799 was like, no, it wasn't successful. And he's like, why 537 00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:00,480 do we still have to take our sho was off 538 00:30:00,519 --> 00:30:01,799 twenty four years later? 539 00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:05,119 Speaker 2: Question? Actually, yeah, there is. 540 00:30:05,759 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 3: But it's so interesting to see how what used to 541 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,839 be commonplace to us is somebody else's history. These kids 542 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,359 have no concept of shoe bombings or anything else, just 543 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,839 like they have no concept of When I told them 544 00:30:17,839 --> 00:30:19,720 that you used to be able to walk somebody to 545 00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:23,000 the gate at the airport, Yes, they were amazed. They 546 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,759 were amazed. They were like, wait you. 547 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,799 Speaker 2: Could yeah, all the way, Yes, all the way to 548 00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:27,799 the gate, and say all. 549 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 3: The way to the gate. Amazing. Let's get down to 550 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:37,839 I think the most interesting and potentially rabbit holy aspect 551 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,440 of the dB Cooper case, and that, of course, is 552 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:47,319 the suspects. Before we get into our litany of suspects, Bill, 553 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,200 I knew you'd heard about the case before. After the 554 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,240 initial hearing about the case, did you follow it in 555 00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:55,920 any way? I know there was a manhunt and all 556 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,240 the rest of that. Did you follow up with potential 557 00:30:58,279 --> 00:30:59,119 suspects later? 558 00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 2: Or I might have lost some aspects of the case 559 00:31:02,359 --> 00:31:05,799 over the years. I was very surprised in your research 560 00:31:06,119 --> 00:31:09,200 how many different suspects there were and this is just 561 00:31:09,319 --> 00:31:13,839 the short list. Oh yeah, because so many of them 562 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:20,880 seemed extremely unlikely. Although there are a couple that really 563 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,400 jump out as a strong possibility, there's a couple that 564 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,960 are just odd deathbed confessions. Interestingly, though a number of 565 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:34,680 them do have a background in aviation or parachuting from planes, 566 00:31:34,759 --> 00:31:38,640 and so they've got a background in this field where 567 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,440 it makes some sense. I think, really there's only one 568 00:31:42,519 --> 00:31:45,000 or two that I feel are most likely. 569 00:31:44,839 --> 00:31:48,799 Speaker 3: Is moving into this portion. I want to acknowledge the 570 00:31:49,359 --> 00:31:54,200 truly stellar reporting from Michael Natale in a February twenty 571 00:31:54,279 --> 00:31:58,720 twenty four article in Popular Mechanics for this really excellent 572 00:31:58,799 --> 00:32:03,519 rundown of some of them notorious dB Cooper confessors, because 573 00:32:03,519 --> 00:32:05,200 a lot of these people just came forward and were like, 574 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,440 I'm dB Cooper. It was me, And also just some 575 00:32:07,599 --> 00:32:10,759 that are flat out suspects. I also want to acknowledge 576 00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:14,319 that I know these are not all of them, it's 577 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,279 not even most of them. I'm sure that I missed 578 00:32:17,359 --> 00:32:23,240 people's favorite suspects. I couldn't hit every single dB Cooper suspect, 579 00:32:23,319 --> 00:32:26,319 and every single dB Cooper website out there. So if 580 00:32:26,359 --> 00:32:29,880 I missed your favorite like your pet suspect, I'm sorry. 581 00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:34,000 That is truly my bad. The dB Cooper case is 582 00:32:34,039 --> 00:32:38,079 such a wide, deep rabbit hole. I'm actually surprised I 583 00:32:38,119 --> 00:32:41,839 was able to get away with this amount of work 584 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,079 like this. Truly, I could have doubled the amount of 585 00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:46,720 notes that I had sent to Bill and it still 586 00:32:46,759 --> 00:32:49,720 wouldn't have really done more than scratch the surface. If 587 00:32:49,759 --> 00:32:52,759 I missed your favorite suspect, I'm sorry. Please do fill 588 00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:55,880 us in the comments. Okay. This is based largely on 589 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,880 the reporting from Michael Natale, and we will put the 590 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,519 link to this article in the show notes. It is 591 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,119 truly excellent and contains a lot of interesting images as well. 592 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,359 Suspect number one and this is my favorite. I think 593 00:33:08,359 --> 00:33:12,240 this one is the most likely Richard Floyd McCoy Junior. 594 00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:16,000 The way I divided this up is I gave the 595 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,039 proof that was offered for his guilt, and then I 596 00:33:19,119 --> 00:33:23,519 gave the refutation that was offered either by an investigative 597 00:33:23,559 --> 00:33:27,640 agency or something else. The proof offered for Richard Floyd 598 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,519 McCoy's guilt as dB Cooper was from his son, Rick 599 00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:35,319 McCoy son Rick McCoy came forward to the FBI in 600 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:40,200 twenty twenty after his mother, Karen McCoy's death. He claimed 601 00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:44,559 that she had confessed to not only helping her husband 602 00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:48,759 plan and pull off the dB Cooper heist, but also 603 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,680 in April seventh, nineteen seventy two parachute skyjacking, very similar 604 00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:58,160 to the Cooper heist that resulted in her husband's capture 605 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,759 after a three day man hunt. He also went on 606 00:34:01,799 --> 00:34:05,319 a plane, demanded a ransom, parachuted out of it. He 607 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,199 got caught, whereas dB Cooper did not. For that second 608 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:14,239 parachute skyjacking, Richard Floyd McCoy was sentenced to forty five 609 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,039 years in prison. He then escaped from prison in nineteen 610 00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:21,719 seventy four, two years later and was killed in a 611 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,639 shootout with cops in Virginia. And I actually want to 612 00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:27,960 do I feel like this guy's maybe worth a longer 613 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,280 episode all on his own. 614 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,639 Speaker 2: This one really jumps out for me because this guy 615 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:38,119 actually succeeded in parachuting an aircraft less than a year 616 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,320 after the dB Cooper incident. I think Richard Floyd McCoy 617 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,760 Junior is suspect number one because I think he is 618 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,840 then most likely now. 619 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,119 Speaker 3: According to the FBI, by the five year anniversary of 620 00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:54,920 the hijacking, we'd considered more than eight hundred suspects and 621 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,360 eliminated all but two dozen from consideration. One person from 622 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,800 our list, Richard Floyd McCoy, is still a favorite suspect 623 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,039 among many. We tracked down and arrested McCoy for a 624 00:35:06,119 --> 00:35:09,840 similar airplane hijacking and escape by parachute less than five 625 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,480 months after Cooper's flight, but McCoy was later ruled out 626 00:35:13,599 --> 00:35:17,199 because he didn't match the nearly identical physical descriptions of 627 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,840 Cooper provided by two flight attendants and for other reasons 628 00:35:22,159 --> 00:35:24,559 end quote. I'm like, you just threw in, and for 629 00:35:24,639 --> 00:35:26,639 other reasons, like you want to give us any of 630 00:35:26,679 --> 00:35:27,440 those No. 631 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 2: It's suitably vague. There isn't this. 632 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 3: Chapter and verse of what we get from the FBI 633 00:35:32,079 --> 00:35:36,159 on the regular. But yeah, for other reasons. Yeah, so 634 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:41,039 that's the FBI's version. But this particular little wrinkle that 635 00:35:41,159 --> 00:35:44,280 came about in twenty twenty three I think was particularly 636 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,079 interesting as well, and leans more toward I think this 637 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,559 was probably our guy. According to reporting from Ella Morton 638 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,920 of history dot Com, quote, McCoy's children Chante and Richard 639 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,719 the third Rick have long believed their father might have 640 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,199 been behind the nineteen seventy one hijacking. They opened up 641 00:36:01,199 --> 00:36:04,559 about their suspicions to Dan Grider in twenty twenty three 642 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,719 after being repeatedly contacted by the amateur investigator. According to Grider, 643 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,880 they presented the FBI with a parachute and harness that 644 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,920 had been stashed in a storage shed on their family's 645 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,159 North Carolina property. Also stored with the parachute was a 646 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,320 logbook that McCoy's daughter claims places their father at the 647 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,960 site of the skyjacking. Chantay and Rick have said they 648 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,199 waited until their mother passed away before sharing the items 649 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:32,239 with investigators. 650 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 2: I think this guy is extremely likely. There's other suspects 651 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,239 that are worthy of consideration, but Richard McCoy Jr. He's 652 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:42,559 definitely the top of the list. 653 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,159 Speaker 3: I would agree with that too. I would be interested 654 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,159 in that tie that we mentioned a little bit. Ago 655 00:36:49,679 --> 00:36:54,119 is still an FBI custody and they're able to do 656 00:36:54,199 --> 00:36:57,599 some testing on that. I would love to see. They've 657 00:36:57,599 --> 00:37:00,599 got his kids right, which means they have DNA available 658 00:37:00,679 --> 00:37:04,079 to them that's testable, and there is presumably DNA on 659 00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:06,599 the tie. I would love to go ahead and see 660 00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:09,280 them do the testing. There is a little bit more 661 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,039 though about the testing and the tie that comes up 662 00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:16,320 a little bit later. Possible suspect too, Bryant Jack Kofelt 663 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,440 proof offered. In nineteen seventy two. Kofelt reached out to 664 00:37:20,519 --> 00:37:24,159 his former cellmate James Brown, presumably not the King of Soul, 665 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,159 and confessed to the hijacking. He stated that he landed 666 00:37:28,159 --> 00:37:31,079 near Mount Hood after jumping out of the plane, with 667 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,360 injuring himself and losing the money in the process too 668 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,599 bad for him. He stated that he burnt his parachute 669 00:37:38,599 --> 00:37:41,800 with magnesium powder, then walked to a jeep he had 670 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,719 stashed nearby to affect his escape. Since one of Cooper's 671 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:50,000 parachutes was later found, that makes his story suspect because 672 00:37:50,039 --> 00:37:51,440 he said he burned the parachute. 673 00:37:51,679 --> 00:37:54,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, this really starts to fall apart for me for 674 00:37:54,679 --> 00:37:57,559 two reasons. One is, we know that at least a 675 00:37:57,599 --> 00:38:02,039 portion of Deep Cooper's parachutes later recovered. The second thing 676 00:38:02,199 --> 00:38:06,519 is jumping out of a plane is an imprecise science, 677 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:11,079 and the gep he supposedly stashed nearby in order to 678 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,719 escape exactly how would that work because this airplane is 679 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,480 flying at least two hundred miles an hour. How closely 680 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,360 could you time your jump so that you're able to 681 00:38:22,559 --> 00:38:25,800 walk to a jeep you've stashed in the woods somewhere. 682 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:27,679 This one doesn't work for me. 683 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,559 Speaker 3: No, I agree. So that is the proof that Jack 684 00:38:31,639 --> 00:38:36,480 Koefelt and his former cellmate James Brown offered. The refutation 685 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,440 came again from the FBI. The FBI described him as 686 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,920 a quote notorious swindler, which of course makes his credibility 687 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,320 less than stellar. The FBI later said that the two 688 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,280 gentlemen in question offered the FBI details that did not 689 00:38:52,639 --> 00:38:57,960 match the confidential holdbacks. So the lead investigator on the case, 690 00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:01,519 Ralph hemmel's Bach, believed that that co Felton Brown were 691 00:39:01,559 --> 00:39:04,519 just attempting to run a con on the Bureau. They 692 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,159 pursued a movie deal based on this confession koe Felton 693 00:39:08,199 --> 00:39:11,599 Brown did. They allegedly went on a camping trip to 694 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,719 find the missing money, though shocker, they were never able 695 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,159 to recover the money. 696 00:39:17,039 --> 00:39:19,800 Speaker 2: And the holdbacks. Just as a reminder if you're not 697 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,800 familiar with that expression, usually law enforcement will hold back 698 00:39:24,039 --> 00:39:29,440 certain key details in a case like this and murder cases, etc. 699 00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:34,559 They're usually designed to flush out people that may be 700 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,280 claiming involvement. But if they don't know certain key facts 701 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,760 which are held back from the public, when law enforcement 702 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:47,199 investigators are questioning them, they will put forth these questions 703 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,559 which are not known to the public and really should 704 00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:52,679 only be known by someone who was there. So the 705 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:57,079 fact that co Felton Brown discussed details but didn't seem 706 00:39:57,119 --> 00:40:00,840 to be able to match the holdbacks and give Kofelt's 707 00:40:01,079 --> 00:40:03,599 history of being a con man, I don't think this 708 00:40:03,639 --> 00:40:04,639 one flies at all. 709 00:40:05,199 --> 00:40:09,800 Speaker 3: I agree it's suspect three. Dwayne l. Weber proof offered. 710 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,280 Dwayne L. Weber offered a deathbed confession to his wife, Joe, 711 00:40:14,679 --> 00:40:18,280 revealing that he was Dan Cooper. Joe said she began 712 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:23,199 putting pieces together, including quote recalling the sleep talking nightmare 713 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,239 Dwayne had about leaving fingerprints on the plane, an old 714 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,039 knee injury he claimed he got from jumping out of 715 00:40:30,079 --> 00:40:33,559 a plane, and the local library book on dB Cooper 716 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:38,840 with Dwayne Weber's handwriting in the margins end quote seems 717 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,639 a little this body. 718 00:40:40,559 --> 00:40:42,679 Speaker 2: To me if he too, And then of course you 719 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:43,960 get into the refutation. 720 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 3: The refutation offered for that one is fairly straightforward. Dwayne 721 00:40:48,519 --> 00:40:51,679 Weber said that he had left fingerprints in the airplane 722 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,880 during the hijacking, but Weber's fingerprints in DNA did not 723 00:40:56,079 --> 00:40:59,559 match the fingerprints and DNA found on the plane, so 724 00:40:59,679 --> 00:41:02,639 the the guy ruled him out as a suspect. 725 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 2: One thing that's interesting about this Dwayne Weber suspect is 726 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:11,639 that the FBI has clearly gone back and tested evidence 727 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,880 from nineteen seventy one, because nineteen seventy one is decades 728 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:20,039 before DNA is in current use in crime labs. It's 729 00:41:20,039 --> 00:41:22,840 not until the late eighties early nineties, as we've discussed 730 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,880 here on Mind over Murder, So it's fascinating that they'd 731 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:30,039 be willing to go back and retest evidence, including seeking touch, 732 00:41:30,159 --> 00:41:33,519 DNA and other sources, in order to rule people in 733 00:41:33,639 --> 00:41:37,239 or out as a suspect. Clearly, the FBI had not 734 00:41:37,559 --> 00:41:41,599 let the Dan Cooper case go follow they were continuing 735 00:41:41,639 --> 00:41:44,719 to do scientific testing well into the nineties. 736 00:41:45,119 --> 00:41:49,119 Speaker 3: I agreed suspect for Barbara Dayton. Barbara Dayton is one 737 00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:52,360 of the most interesting confessors in the dab Cooper saga. 738 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,239 She was included in Skyjack by Jeffrey Gray Barbara Dayton 739 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,719 died in two thousand and two. She was a World 740 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,039 War II VET, a former merchant marine, an aviation enthusiast, 741 00:42:04,559 --> 00:42:08,360 and she was likely the first person to undergo gender 742 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,840 reassignment surgery in Washington State. In nineteen sixty nine, Barbara 743 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,760 Dayton quote purportedly made a bold confession to her friend 744 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,239 Ron Foreman and his wife, claiming that two years after 745 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,599 undergoing a gender reassignment surgery, she boarded a plane while 746 00:42:24,599 --> 00:42:27,880 presenting as a male, altered her voice, and carried out 747 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,239 the greatest unsolved aviation heist ever. Dayton, who had been 748 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,559 denied a commercial pilot's license, allegedly sought revenge on the 749 00:42:36,639 --> 00:42:40,039 airline industry with this act and proclaimed to have hidden 750 00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:43,800 all the stolen money in a cistern in Woodburn, Oregon. 751 00:42:44,199 --> 00:42:44,840 End quote. 752 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, this one doesn't wash for me at all, but 753 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,239 you can please continue because it starts to fall apart. 754 00:42:52,639 --> 00:42:57,280 Speaker 3: It does because she ultimately recanted her own confession quote. 755 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,039 When she realized the government was still ready willing and 756 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:04,440 able to prosecute whoever committed the skyjacking, she swiftly recanted 757 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,079 her confession and swore she had made the whole thing 758 00:43:07,199 --> 00:43:10,800 up to date, there has been no actual evidence linking 759 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,119 Barbara Dayton to the crime. 760 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:18,159 Speaker 2: This one is just such an eye roller because Dayton, 761 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:24,440 after reassignment surgery, makes this really crazy claim to have 762 00:43:24,679 --> 00:43:28,880 been Dan Cooper, but then scrambles to take it all 763 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:33,639 back when Dayton realizes, Oh my gosh, they're actually going 764 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,159 to go after me and charge me, and if they 765 00:43:37,199 --> 00:43:40,840 find me guilty, I'll end up spending years in jail. Oops. 766 00:43:41,119 --> 00:43:45,000 Maybe I shouldn't be claiming or maybe bragging that, post 767 00:43:45,119 --> 00:43:49,159 gender reassignment surgery, I presented as a mail and hijacked 768 00:43:49,159 --> 00:43:52,320 this plane and stole this two hundred thousand dollars. Oh, 769 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,599 people aren't necessarily taking kindly to that. They're going to 770 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,880 put me in jail. Sorry, I made the whole thing up. 771 00:43:58,559 --> 00:44:02,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is play stupid games, win stupid prizes territory. 772 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,519 Speaker 2: There's a more obscene version of that, but we'll leave 773 00:44:04,559 --> 00:44:05,320 that for another time. 774 00:44:05,599 --> 00:44:06,559 Speaker 3: Yeah. 775 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,559 Speaker 2: Oh, in speaking of another time, I think we're going 776 00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:13,639 to have to move into part two of our dB Cooper. Look, 777 00:44:14,639 --> 00:44:14,960 we have. 778 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,039 Speaker 3: Much more to go on our in depth deep dive 779 00:44:18,159 --> 00:44:22,880 into the dB Cooper skyjacking from nineteen seventy one. So 780 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,079 we're going to call a halt to this episode of 781 00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:27,800 Mind Over Murder. We would like to remind you that 782 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,559 we have an upcoming live event on May thirty first, 783 00:44:31,599 --> 00:44:35,400 which is Saturday. We are going to be at the 784 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:42,639 South Norfolk Library for the Murder, Mystery and Mayhem Market 785 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,039 where you can come and hang out. We are going 786 00:44:46,079 --> 00:44:50,199 to be hosting a true crime book swap. As you 787 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,119 are aware, I am an absolutely avid reader of true 788 00:44:54,159 --> 00:44:56,440 crime and right now I have more books than can 789 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,360 fit on my shelf. So if you're interested in stopping 790 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,079 by the mind Over Murder booth, bring some of your 791 00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:05,000 favorite true crime books and swap them for mine. You 792 00:45:05,039 --> 00:45:08,000 can also hang out. We'll talk talk to me about 793 00:45:08,039 --> 00:45:11,000 your favorite cases and various other things. Will have a 794 00:45:11,039 --> 00:45:14,159 ton of fun. So if you're interested, please do swing 795 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,239 by the South Norfolk Library on May thirty first. All 796 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,920 of the information about this event is going to be 797 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,199 on our social media page. We'll also put links in 798 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,559 the show notes. That is going to do it for 799 00:45:24,599 --> 00:45:27,360 this episode of mind Over Murder. Thank you so much 800 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,480 for listening. We'll see you next time. 801 00:45:39,079 --> 00:45:42,639 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and 802 00:45:42,679 --> 00:45:44,119 Another Dog Productions. 803 00:45:44,679 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 804 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,800 Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. 805 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,519 Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. 806 00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:57,920 Speaker 1: Mindover Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. 807 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,039 Speaker 2: You can follow us on faceboe book, Twitter, or Instagram. 808 00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:04,679 Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway 809 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,559 Murders on Facebook. 810 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,360 Speaker 2: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at 811 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,000 Bill Thomas five six. 812 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,599 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.