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Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

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Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up

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where we left off with the tovin Owel deposition with

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the OIG Inspectors. Okay, the recorder is back on. It's

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two twenty eight pm again, Miss Noel. You're under oath

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and this is a voluntary interview. Thank you for your cooperation.

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All right, So if you don't mind, just all the

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documents I am in front of you, can you just

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initial and date those just again so that we know

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what it is that you are looking at during the interview.

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Thank you very much for initialing and dating all of those.

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All right. We're just going to talk briefly about the

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shoe layout. These are papers that have the shoe layout. Now,

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are these just for your reference if you need to

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look at them. Are the CEOs assigned to the shoe

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located together on one social, one centralized location, So the

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officers that are working in the shoe are you all together?

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You mentioned that there's a desk in the shape of

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an L. Noel, yes, question, is everybody together at that

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location when you're not doing rounds and counts? Noel? I

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mean not really somebody could go upstairs to the bathroom. Question. Okay,

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during your shift on the tenth, is that where you

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and aside from when you said you helped redact it out,

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is that where the two you and Thomas were located

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at that one central area? There is not another officers

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station though, correct? Noel, no question, there's just one station. Noel.

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There's one question? Okay? And approximately how many computers are

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there at that station? Noel? About three? Question? Three? And

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you said no one had like an assigned computer, Noel,

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No question. Oh, I see doesn't have a computer. Everyone

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just uses one computer. Noel. Uh huh. Question what can

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you see from the desk in the shoe? Can you

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just mark on there where is the actual l desk

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set up located? So it's the two floors, the two layers.

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I don't know if you're able to look at the

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el tier where Epstein was, that might give you like

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what's the first and what's the second? Is it correct

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that he was on the second level Noel, yes, question

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and was he an El tier? So that might help

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you out to be able to differentiate between you see

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where the cells start with like a letter and then

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a number. Noel, Yeah, question. So that will probably help

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you be able to decipher what the first level and

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what's the second level the union wrap pipes in. Do

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you know what you're looking at? Noel? Uh huh okay?

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Question so can you figure out by looking at that?

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So if the one that begins with L, that would

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be the second level, do you follow that? Noel? Yes? Question?

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And then there's the first level. Is there actually almost

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like a third level where the officers sit is like

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two different the way it's tiered? Noel, No, it's on

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the main level. Okay. So where the first set of

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inmates are Noel, see it stars, You've got to go

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down and you've got to go up. Question right, Okay, Noel,

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So it's not where we're sitting. You've got to go

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down and you've got to go up to get to

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the cell question. Okay, So on that, looking at like

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the first level of inmates, can you just kind of

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identify where it is that L shape setup is? Noel

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over here? Question? Can you just market maybe like an

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X or a circle or something? Okay, thank you? And

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from where you're sitting, can you see all the cell

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doors from there? Noel? Not all? Question? Not all? Could

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you see the door to Epstein sell from there, Noel. Yeah.

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Question all right, can you mark on there or you

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would call Epstein to have been all right? Thank you?

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And does that have a cell number on it? Question?

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I think those numbers correspond with this Noel. Foy kicks

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in because I'm thinking, is it because you have to

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be able to see in there? Union Rep. This is

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your Uni entrance. This is where you enter. This is

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L tier right, you walk in L MJK. So if

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this is Jay, this is you walking into a housing unit.

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Noel indiscernible by turning left, Union Rep. Yeah. So question

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and maybe put X and a circle just so you

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know what it is that you changed. Foy, put a

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circle around that X and that will be the desk question.

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All right? And then is it correct where you identify

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Noel Epstein? Question Epstein? What number is that? Noel nine

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eighty eight? Question you believe that he was in? Was

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that L nine eighty eight? Noel? I don't remember the

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number that he was in. I just know when you

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go up the stairs, it's the first one on the right. Redacted.

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Let me just so that we're not I just want

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to make sure that we're not Okay, so they don't

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actually correspond with the numbers. Noel, no indiscernible question. Do

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you remember what room is was in? Noel on El

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tier question yeah, El Tier, Noel, the first cell on

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the right. Question. Do you know the room number by

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any chance? Noel, Oh, I don't know the room number? Question? Okay. Question,

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but you could see his actual door from where you

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were sitting, Noel, yeah. Question okay. And could you see

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inside his cell from where you were sitting Noel, no question.

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No Approximately again we're talking about like that's where the

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shower was what you were talking about. Approximately? How far

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was epstein cell from where you were seated, Noel, like

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to where the chair is? Question? Ten to fifteen feet?

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Noel probably question. Okay, all right, So the reason why

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I'm asking that, did you or anyone else ever go

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in or out of Epstein's cell on August tenth, twenty nineteen, Noel,

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No question. And would you have known if someone else did? Noel? Yeah.

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Question Okay, while you were physically present in the shoe,

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of course. Noel. Yeah. Question. And you said that the

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only times you weren't present in the shoe on August

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or let's talk from you said ten pm. Is that

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the last time around ten pm is the last time

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that you saw Noel Yeah. Question from ten pm until

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approximately six thirty three am? What time did you when

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did you leave the shoe? I know one time you

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said that you helped with the counts up in ten South,

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and you may have said that you were gone in

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the bathroom. When would those times have occurred? Noel three

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or right after three five or around after five going

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to the bathroom? I don't remember the time? Question? Okay,

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so around three am, around five am, and then one

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other time to use the restroom Noel yeah. Question. And

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where's the restroom located in the shoe? Noel, upstairs where

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I go to count question? Okay, But Thomas was present

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any time that you were there, Noel, Yeah, although he

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may have been sleeping Noel yeah. Question okay. And if

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you or the people that we've talked about, you said

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that the lieutenant visited the shoe approximately at four am.

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That was Lieutenant redacted? Noel, Yes. Question who else from

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ten pm until six thirty three am, we're in the

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shoe Noel indiscernible question, Well, so redacted left around ten Noel,

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uh huh. Question redacted left around twelve? Anyone else Noel,

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no question? What about when redacted came to the shoe?

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So I just want to make sure I know we've

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discussed some of this stuff. Noel. Oh, you're talking about

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the people that's working there. Question everybody that's been in

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the shoe. So there's you, there's Thomas. Who else was

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actually in the shoe from ten pm the last time

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you saw Epstein until about six thirty pm when he

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was discovered? Noel, Lieutenant redacted and redacted? Question and redacted? Noel,

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he left at ten? Question? At ten? So at ten

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he left? They're the only other people there, Noel. That's it? Question? Okay?

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No one else, Noel, no one else? Question? And you're

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confident positive about that? Noel? Yes? Question? All right? And

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did any of those other individuals that visited the shoe

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go near Epstein cell Noel, no question. So no one

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even went near it? Noel, no question? Let alone go

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in it? Noel, no question. No one went in it? Noel,

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no question. Okay, that's all we need to talk about

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with the shoe. Do you mind just initially and dating that,

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and are you aware? I guess the other thing that

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I will ask is I know, I ask you when

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you were there, but when you were gone to do

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the counts in ten South as well as use the restroom?

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Are you aware of anyone visiting the shoe during those times? Noel,

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no question, No okay, question by somebody else. I have

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a follow up question. When you left to go assist,

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did you take the keys with you? Noel? Yeah. Question.

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So could mister Thomas have let anyone in or out?

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Noell know? Question So he wouldn't have had the ability

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to let anyone in based upon you having the keys

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the whole time? Noel? Yeah. Question. And did you have

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the keys because you were shoe officer number one? Noel,

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I guess, I mean I just had them. Question Okay,

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there wasn't a discussion like Shoe one I get the keys? Noel,

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no question. Do you know that Shoe one is supposed

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to be the one that has the keys? Do you

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know that? Noel? I think so. Question Okay, do you

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know if you had any conversation with Thomas about if

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you had the keys or if he had the keys? Noel,

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no question. Okay anyone that entered or exited the shoe

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that day, are you the one that let them in

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are out? Noel? Yeah. Question, Thomas didn't let anybody in

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or out? Noel, no question. Okay. Are you a aware

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of any cameras that we're not recording within the shoe

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on August ninth or tenth, twenty nineteen, Noel, no question.

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You're not aware? Are you aware at this point, not

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just at the time, but are you aware now if

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any cameras were not recording? Noel, I mean I'm aware now. Question,

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That's what I mean. What are you aware of now? Noel?

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I don't know, like what specifically. I just heard that

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some of the cameras were not working as far as

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which ones she's cut off, But do you know which ones? Noel?

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No question. Okay, And at the time you didn't know, Noel,

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no question. So you don't know if they weren't working

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when they stop working, Noel, No question. Are there any

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like do you have the ability to monitor cameras from

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the shoe? Noel, no question. So if you're sitting in there,

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there's not like camera down range that you can, like

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you can see what's going on in each range? Noel,

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no question. No do you know if someone is live

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monitoring either anywhere in the shoe or during operations. Noel,

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I don't know. Question. You don't know if you're being

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monitored or if the inmates are being monitored. Noel, I

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don't know. I know there's cameras on the tiers. Question, right,

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but do you know if anyone's watching them live? Noel, Oh,

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I don't know. Question, You don't And you don't know

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if there is any camera pointed at you at the

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desk area Noel, Oh, I don't know. Question. And you

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don't know if anybody is watching those either, Noel, I

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don't know. Question. I think it'll be fine. So are

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you not? We can just skip the rest of those questions.

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You're not aware of the cameras at the time not working, Noel.

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No question, So no one reported to you and you

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didn't report it to anyone else, Noel, No I didn't

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know anything about cameras. Question all right, And we talked

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a little bit about sleeping on duty, So it sounds

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like Thomas was asleep pretty much the entire shift then, Noel. Yeah.

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Question from pretty much twelve am Noel until he went upstairs.

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Question until he went upstairs, went upstairs to do? What

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to feed? Noel? To relieve redacted. Question to relieve redacted?

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All right, I might be getting confused. I thought you

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were relieved redacted. Question. She went up there to do

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the count. Then redacted reached out to her to ask

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her to relieve him. She called the lieutenant. Verified with

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the lieutenant, and then mister Thomas went up to relieve him.

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Question Okay, and around what time was that? Noel? After five? Question? Okay,

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so basically from twelve to about five he was sleeping, Noel.

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I mean in intervals, like I tapped him, he kind

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of woke up. Question right, Noel, but he went back

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to sleep. Question Okay, but he wasn't doing his duties,

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he was sleeping, Noel. Correct question. Did you sleep during

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your shift? Noel? No question, You didn't sleep at all, Noel.

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No question. For the period that you were sitting at

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the desk for like two hours without moving, were you awake? Noel? Yeah,

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on my computer. Question you were on the computer. Were

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you and Thomas seated next to each other? Noel. No,

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we were seated next to each other, but not facing

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each other, like he was faced that way, I was

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faced the other way. Question Okay, close proximity to one another? Noel. Yeah,

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like he's there and I'm here. Question, So about three

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or four feet from each other? Noel. Yeah, but the

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back is turned because he's that way and I was

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this way. Question. Okay, but you were not asleep, Noel,

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No question. Now, are you guys authorized to sleep in

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the shoe? Noel, no question. No. And have you ever

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fallen to sleep previously while on duty at the MCC Noel,

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Not in the shoe. Question, not in the shoe, but

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other places? Noel? Yeah. Question where would you where did

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you sleep at other places? Noel? Where did I fall asleep? Question?

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Uh huh? Noel on a regular housing unit? Question the

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regular housing unit? Noel, yeah. Question, can you just give

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me a little more information on that? What do you

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mean were you allowed to sleep there? Noel? No question?

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And where we're indiscernible Noel, Like, I work consecutively, like

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five days of overtime, and I would like those off,

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caught myself like, but not sleep question? Okay, so you've

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fallen asleep and other housing units? Noel liked thosed off

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question right because you were overworked? Noel? Yeah, when I

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work like three or four days of sixteen hours, yeah.

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Question And how often would that happen. Noel. How often

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would I fall asleep? Question? Yeah? How often would you

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fall asleep? Noel? Oh that was like four, I don't know,

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two times. Question I understand. But in the shoe you

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had never fallen asleep before? Noel. No, because I don't

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work that graveyard shift. Question Well, I just mean even

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during your regular shifts, because it sounds like you guys

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were working a lot. Noel. Yeah. Question. So, but in

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the shoe you didn't fall asleep that night and never

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before in the shoe Noel. On the shoe, no because

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it's daytime. Question redacted. You said that was your first

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time working with Thomas. Noel. Yeah. Question was that ever

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with Thomas or just in the shoe? Did you ever

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work with Thomas outside of the shoe Noel, No question.

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Have you ever met with him or interacted with him? Noel? Yes.

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Question prior to this just socially or question. He brings

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inmates to the units to give out stuff, so we've

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spoke and said hello. Question, Okay, do you know if Thomas.

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Have you ever heard of Thomas sleeping on the job

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previous to this incident, Noel, I don't know. Question. No,

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you said you did try to wake him up a

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couple of times. Noel. Yeah. Question, but he said he

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was just tired. Noel, yeah. Question. And you said you

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didn't report the matter to the lieutenant because he actually

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fell asleep in front of the lieutenant Noel, yes. Question.

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And at that time she hit him with a piece

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of paper and he woke up Noel, yes. Question. And

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how did he respond to that? Noel, he woke up.

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Was there a conversation at all. Did he say like, oh,

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I'm exhausted, Noel. Well, he didn't say that, but she

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said that She was like, that's the problem in here,

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the overwork and the understaff question. So with them falling asleep,

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that's how she responded, Noel, lieutenant redacted question. Yeah, Noel, Yeah.

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But she didn't respond like that to him. She was

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saying that to me, that's the problem in MCC. Everybody's

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overworked and understaffed. Question. Okay, after she left, did he

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fall back asleep? Noel. Yes. All right, folks, we're gonna

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wrap up right here, and in the next episode dealing

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with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off.

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All the information that goes with this episode can be

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found in the description box.