Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
where we left off with the tovin Owel deposition with
the OIG Inspectors. Okay, the recorder is back on. It's
two twenty eight pm again, Miss Noel. You're under oath
and this is a voluntary interview. Thank you for your cooperation.
All right, So if you don't mind, just all the
documents I am in front of you, can you just
initial and date those just again so that we know
what it is that you are looking at during the interview.
Thank you very much for initialing and dating all of those.
All right. We're just going to talk briefly about the
shoe layout. These are papers that have the shoe layout. Now,
are these just for your reference if you need to
look at them. Are the CEOs assigned to the shoe
located together on one social, one centralized location, So the
officers that are working in the shoe are you all together?
You mentioned that there's a desk in the shape of
an L. Noel, yes, question, is everybody together at that
location when you're not doing rounds and counts? Noel? I
mean not really somebody could go upstairs to the bathroom. Question. Okay,
during your shift on the tenth, is that where you
and aside from when you said you helped redact it out,
is that where the two you and Thomas were located
at that one central area? There is not another officers
station though, correct? Noel, no question, there's just one station. Noel.
There's one question? Okay? And approximately how many computers are
there at that station? Noel? About three? Question? Three? And
you said no one had like an assigned computer, Noel,
No question. Oh, I see doesn't have a computer. Everyone
just uses one computer. Noel. Uh huh. Question what can
you see from the desk in the shoe? Can you
just mark on there where is the actual l desk
set up located? So it's the two floors, the two layers.
I don't know if you're able to look at the
el tier where Epstein was, that might give you like
what's the first and what's the second? Is it correct
that he was on the second level Noel, yes, question
and was he an El tier? So that might help
you out to be able to differentiate between you see
where the cells start with like a letter and then
a number. Noel, Yeah, question. So that will probably help
you be able to decipher what the first level and
what's the second level the union wrap pipes in. Do
you know what you're looking at? Noel? Uh huh okay?
Question so can you figure out by looking at that?
So if the one that begins with L, that would
be the second level, do you follow that? Noel? Yes? Question?
And then there's the first level. Is there actually almost
like a third level where the officers sit is like
two different the way it's tiered? Noel, No, it's on
the main level. Okay. So where the first set of
inmates are Noel, see it stars, You've got to go
down and you've got to go up. Question right, Okay, Noel,
So it's not where we're sitting. You've got to go
down and you've got to go up to get to
the cell question. Okay, So on that, looking at like
the first level of inmates, can you just kind of
identify where it is that L shape setup is? Noel
over here? Question? Can you just market maybe like an
X or a circle or something? Okay, thank you? And
from where you're sitting, can you see all the cell
doors from there? Noel? Not all? Question? Not all? Could
you see the door to Epstein sell from there, Noel. Yeah.
Question all right, can you mark on there or you
would call Epstein to have been all right? Thank you?
And does that have a cell number on it? Question?
I think those numbers correspond with this Noel. Foy kicks
in because I'm thinking, is it because you have to
be able to see in there? Union Rep. This is
your Uni entrance. This is where you enter. This is
L tier right, you walk in L MJK. So if
this is Jay, this is you walking into a housing unit.
Noel indiscernible by turning left, Union Rep. Yeah. So question
and maybe put X and a circle just so you
know what it is that you changed. Foy, put a
circle around that X and that will be the desk question.
All right? And then is it correct where you identify
Noel Epstein? Question Epstein? What number is that? Noel nine
eighty eight? Question you believe that he was in? Was
that L nine eighty eight? Noel? I don't remember the
number that he was in. I just know when you
go up the stairs, it's the first one on the right. Redacted.
Let me just so that we're not I just want
to make sure that we're not Okay, so they don't
actually correspond with the numbers. Noel, no indiscernible question. Do
you remember what room is was in? Noel on El
tier question yeah, El Tier, Noel, the first cell on
the right. Question. Do you know the room number by
any chance? Noel, Oh, I don't know the room number? Question? Okay. Question,
but you could see his actual door from where you
were sitting, Noel, yeah. Question okay. And could you see
inside his cell from where you were sitting Noel, no question.
No Approximately again we're talking about like that's where the
shower was what you were talking about. Approximately? How far
was epstein cell from where you were seated, Noel, like
to where the chair is? Question? Ten to fifteen feet?
Noel probably question. Okay, all right, So the reason why
I'm asking that, did you or anyone else ever go
in or out of Epstein's cell on August tenth, twenty nineteen, Noel,
No question. And would you have known if someone else did? Noel? Yeah.
Question Okay, while you were physically present in the shoe,
of course. Noel. Yeah. Question. And you said that the
only times you weren't present in the shoe on August
or let's talk from you said ten pm. Is that
the last time around ten pm is the last time
that you saw Noel Yeah. Question from ten pm until
approximately six thirty three am? What time did you when
did you leave the shoe? I know one time you
said that you helped with the counts up in ten South,
and you may have said that you were gone in
the bathroom. When would those times have occurred? Noel three
or right after three five or around after five going
to the bathroom? I don't remember the time? Question? Okay,
so around three am, around five am, and then one
other time to use the restroom Noel yeah. Question. And
where's the restroom located in the shoe? Noel, upstairs where
I go to count question? Okay, But Thomas was present
any time that you were there, Noel, Yeah, although he
may have been sleeping Noel yeah. Question okay. And if
you or the people that we've talked about, you said
that the lieutenant visited the shoe approximately at four am.
That was Lieutenant redacted? Noel, Yes. Question who else from
ten pm until six thirty three am, we're in the
shoe Noel indiscernible question, Well, so redacted left around ten Noel,
uh huh. Question redacted left around twelve? Anyone else Noel,
no question? What about when redacted came to the shoe?
So I just want to make sure I know we've
discussed some of this stuff. Noel. Oh, you're talking about
the people that's working there. Question everybody that's been in
the shoe. So there's you, there's Thomas. Who else was
actually in the shoe from ten pm the last time
you saw Epstein until about six thirty pm when he
was discovered? Noel, Lieutenant redacted and redacted? Question and redacted? Noel,
he left at ten? Question? At ten? So at ten
he left? They're the only other people there, Noel. That's it? Question? Okay?
No one else, Noel, no one else? Question? And you're
confident positive about that? Noel? Yes? Question? All right? And
did any of those other individuals that visited the shoe
go near Epstein cell Noel, no question. So no one
even went near it? Noel, no question? Let alone go
in it? Noel, no question. No one went in it? Noel,
no question. Okay, that's all we need to talk about
with the shoe. Do you mind just initially and dating that,
and are you aware? I guess the other thing that
I will ask is I know, I ask you when
you were there, but when you were gone to do
the counts in ten South as well as use the restroom?
Are you aware of anyone visiting the shoe during those times? Noel,
no question, No okay, question by somebody else. I have
a follow up question. When you left to go assist,
did you take the keys with you? Noel? Yeah. Question.
So could mister Thomas have let anyone in or out?
Noell know? Question So he wouldn't have had the ability
to let anyone in based upon you having the keys
the whole time? Noel? Yeah. Question. And did you have
the keys because you were shoe officer number one? Noel,
I guess, I mean I just had them. Question Okay,
there wasn't a discussion like Shoe one I get the keys? Noel,
no question. Do you know that Shoe one is supposed
to be the one that has the keys? Do you
know that? Noel? I think so. Question Okay, do you
know if you had any conversation with Thomas about if
you had the keys or if he had the keys? Noel,
no question. Okay anyone that entered or exited the shoe
that day, are you the one that let them in
are out? Noel? Yeah. Question, Thomas didn't let anybody in
or out? Noel, no question. Okay. Are you a aware
of any cameras that we're not recording within the shoe
on August ninth or tenth, twenty nineteen, Noel, no question.
You're not aware? Are you aware at this point, not
just at the time, but are you aware now if
any cameras were not recording? Noel, I mean I'm aware now. Question,
That's what I mean. What are you aware of now? Noel?
I don't know, like what specifically. I just heard that
some of the cameras were not working as far as
which ones she's cut off, But do you know which ones? Noel?
No question. Okay, And at the time you didn't know, Noel,
no question. So you don't know if they weren't working
when they stop working, Noel, No question. Are there any
like do you have the ability to monitor cameras from
the shoe? Noel, no question. So if you're sitting in there,
there's not like camera down range that you can, like
you can see what's going on in each range? Noel,
no question. No do you know if someone is live
monitoring either anywhere in the shoe or during operations. Noel,
I don't know. Question. You don't know if you're being
monitored or if the inmates are being monitored. Noel, I
don't know. I know there's cameras on the tiers. Question, right,
but do you know if anyone's watching them live? Noel, Oh,
I don't know. Question, You don't And you don't know
if there is any camera pointed at you at the
desk area Noel, Oh, I don't know. Question. And you
don't know if anybody is watching those either, Noel, I
don't know. Question. I think it'll be fine. So are
you not? We can just skip the rest of those questions.
You're not aware of the cameras at the time not working, Noel.
No question, So no one reported to you and you
didn't report it to anyone else, Noel, No I didn't
know anything about cameras. Question all right, And we talked
a little bit about sleeping on duty, So it sounds
like Thomas was asleep pretty much the entire shift then, Noel. Yeah.
Question from pretty much twelve am Noel until he went upstairs.
Question until he went upstairs, went upstairs to do? What
to feed? Noel? To relieve redacted. Question to relieve redacted?
All right, I might be getting confused. I thought you
were relieved redacted. Question. She went up there to do
the count. Then redacted reached out to her to ask
her to relieve him. She called the lieutenant. Verified with
the lieutenant, and then mister Thomas went up to relieve him.
Question Okay, and around what time was that? Noel? After five? Question? Okay,
so basically from twelve to about five he was sleeping, Noel.
I mean in intervals, like I tapped him, he kind
of woke up. Question right, Noel, but he went back
to sleep. Question Okay, but he wasn't doing his duties,
he was sleeping, Noel. Correct question. Did you sleep during
your shift? Noel? No question, You didn't sleep at all, Noel.
No question. For the period that you were sitting at
the desk for like two hours without moving, were you awake? Noel? Yeah,
on my computer. Question you were on the computer. Were
you and Thomas seated next to each other? Noel. No,
we were seated next to each other, but not facing
each other, like he was faced that way, I was
faced the other way. Question Okay, close proximity to one another? Noel. Yeah,
like he's there and I'm here. Question, So about three
or four feet from each other? Noel. Yeah, but the
back is turned because he's that way and I was
this way. Question. Okay, but you were not asleep, Noel,
No question. Now, are you guys authorized to sleep in
the shoe? Noel, no question. No. And have you ever
fallen to sleep previously while on duty at the MCC Noel,
Not in the shoe. Question, not in the shoe, but
other places? Noel? Yeah. Question where would you where did
you sleep at other places? Noel? Where did I fall asleep? Question?
Uh huh? Noel on a regular housing unit? Question the
regular housing unit? Noel, yeah. Question, can you just give
me a little more information on that? What do you
mean were you allowed to sleep there? Noel? No question?
And where we're indiscernible Noel, Like, I work consecutively, like
five days of overtime, and I would like those off,
caught myself like, but not sleep question? Okay, so you've
fallen asleep and other housing units? Noel liked thosed off
question right because you were overworked? Noel? Yeah, when I
work like three or four days of sixteen hours, yeah.
Question And how often would that happen. Noel. How often
would I fall asleep? Question? Yeah? How often would you
fall asleep? Noel? Oh that was like four, I don't know,
two times. Question I understand. But in the shoe you
had never fallen asleep before? Noel. No, because I don't
work that graveyard shift. Question Well, I just mean even
during your regular shifts, because it sounds like you guys
were working a lot. Noel. Yeah. Question. So, but in
the shoe you didn't fall asleep that night and never
before in the shoe Noel. On the shoe, no because
it's daytime. Question redacted. You said that was your first
time working with Thomas. Noel. Yeah. Question was that ever
with Thomas or just in the shoe? Did you ever
work with Thomas outside of the shoe Noel, No question.
Have you ever met with him or interacted with him? Noel? Yes.
Question prior to this just socially or question. He brings
inmates to the units to give out stuff, so we've
spoke and said hello. Question, Okay, do you know if Thomas.
Have you ever heard of Thomas sleeping on the job
previous to this incident, Noel, I don't know. Question. No,
you said you did try to wake him up a
couple of times. Noel. Yeah. Question, but he said he
was just tired. Noel, yeah. Question. And you said you
didn't report the matter to the lieutenant because he actually
fell asleep in front of the lieutenant Noel, yes. Question.
And at that time she hit him with a piece
of paper and he woke up Noel, yes. Question. And
how did he respond to that? Noel, he woke up.
Was there a conversation at all. Did he say like, oh,
I'm exhausted, Noel. Well, he didn't say that, but she
said that She was like, that's the problem in here,
the overwork and the understaff question. So with them falling asleep,
that's how she responded, Noel, lieutenant redacted question. Yeah, Noel, Yeah.
But she didn't respond like that to him. She was
saying that to me, that's the problem in MCC. Everybody's
overworked and understaffed. Question. Okay, after she left, did he
fall back asleep? Noel. Yes. All right, folks, we're gonna
wrap up right here, and in the next episode dealing
with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off.
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