1 00:00:04,839 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: This is Jay Dyer from Jay's Analysis. You're listening to 2 00:00:07,759 --> 00:00:11,640 Esoteric Hollywood. Esoteric Hollywood is where I deconstruct the biggest 3 00:00:11,679 --> 00:00:13,960 films in an unparalleled way, from the classics of the 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,160 silver screen to today's blockbusters. Learned to watch film with 5 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,519 new eyes as we enter Esoteric. 6 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:36,719 Speaker 2: Hollywood Jay's Analysis. If you followed the work that I've 7 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:38,640 done in the last year or so, you know that 8 00:00:38,679 --> 00:00:41,679 we've looked into a lot of subject matter dealing with 9 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,359 social engineering. We've looked at Dave McGowan's works pretty in 10 00:00:45,399 --> 00:00:48,799 depth and in particular Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon, And 11 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,280 if you haven't heard that, I would encourage you to 12 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,679 read the book, or go check out the interviews that 13 00:00:54,719 --> 00:00:57,280 he's got on YouTube, or the summary and analysis that 14 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,479 I did to the book and the thesis. There courses 15 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:06,280 that the sixties free love, hippie generation era this was 16 00:01:06,439 --> 00:01:10,359 not so much an organic movement, but rather something that 17 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,319 might have had elements of organic anti establishment sentiment but 18 00:01:14,439 --> 00:01:18,000 that were later co opted. So tonight what we're going 19 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,159 to do is look at another genre of music, something 20 00:01:21,439 --> 00:01:26,519 probably related maybe tangentially to the sixties counterculture revolution, but 21 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:31,079 also perhaps just as influenced or co opted, and that 22 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,439 would be the subject of punk music. I'm not a 23 00:01:34,519 --> 00:01:37,200 huge punk music fan. I'm more so in the vein 24 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,280 of being interested in synth wave and new wave and 25 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,879 kind of the eighties keyboard type stuff, depeche Mode and 26 00:01:44,879 --> 00:01:48,040 so forth. But I know that from the last chapter 27 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,680 in Dave's book he actually hinted at the possibility of 28 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,840 a lot of CIA involvement in that scene as well, 29 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,439 perhaps through the character of Miles Copeland. And I was 30 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,319 fascinated actually to hear the entire series of John Adams 31 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,200 and Nino's covering of the punk scene, which they did 32 00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:12,199 over at Chris Chris Kendall's site Hoaxbusters. So I'm honored 33 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,719 to have both John and Nino on Jays Analysis to 34 00:02:15,879 --> 00:02:19,319 do a summary and recap of their excellent full series 35 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,960 on the history of punk and the secret motivations of 36 00:02:23,199 --> 00:02:25,560 the true history of punk music. How are you guys? 37 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 3: Good? 38 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,319 Speaker 2: Well, all right, So I guess the best place to 39 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,400 start would be let's maybe you guys could give us 40 00:02:35,439 --> 00:02:38,240 a general outline. I'm sure a lot of listeners will 41 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,879 be familiar with punk, but also perhaps not as familiar 42 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,159 with the genre of so I mean, everybody knows about 43 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,360 classic rock and sixties counterculture, and would it be accurate 44 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,400 to say that punk kind of comes out of a 45 00:02:51,759 --> 00:02:56,199 like another phase of this reacting to counterculture, Like is 46 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,479 it a postmodern reaction to counterculture? We know it ties 47 00:02:59,479 --> 00:03:04,960 into an archism. Maybe you guys could talk touch on that, Okay. 48 00:03:05,039 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 3: So when you have the same times that you have 49 00:03:08,159 --> 00:03:16,280 the hippie revolution in nineteen sixties, hippie music kind of 50 00:03:16,599 --> 00:03:22,319 splinters off from but would have been relegated as just 51 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:28,039 psychedelic music. And a lot of the psychedelic rock bands 52 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,680 they didn't have this flowery, you know, a piece of 53 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,240 love type thing associated with them. They were a little 54 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,800 bit more aggressive in their tone and in the in 55 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:45,520 the sound of the music and the lyrics of the 56 00:03:45,639 --> 00:03:51,360 music were what you would proud of classify as proto punk. 57 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,960 And it's interesting because by the time the polk scene 58 00:03:56,039 --> 00:04:00,439 starts to blossom in the nineteen seventies, a lot of 59 00:04:00,439 --> 00:04:03,360 the songs that these punk bands were covering, they were 60 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,719 just doing covered songs of these earlier this earlier wave 61 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,159 of psychedelic rock music from the nineteen sixties. And just 62 00:04:11,199 --> 00:04:13,719 to give an example to someone who doesn't know, you 63 00:04:13,759 --> 00:04:17,279 go look up something like You're Pushing Too Hard by 64 00:04:17,399 --> 00:04:21,160 the band The Seeds, and it's basically like a punk song, 65 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:25,079 but it's you know, from nineteen sixty seven. It's like, 66 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,560 you're pushing too hard. You're pushing on me, You're pushing 67 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,040 too hard what you want me to be, You're pushing 68 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,199 too hard with the things you say. You're pushing too 69 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,680 hard every night and day, just real simple and you know, 70 00:04:35,879 --> 00:04:40,120 kind of just a four chord structure, which later on 71 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:45,879 would be would be what punk would copy. And so 72 00:04:46,079 --> 00:04:49,839 you have almost a decade earlier that that's taking place, 73 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,199 but it's taking place within the realm of psychedelic rock 74 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:58,879 and revolving around stoners and that type of stuff, and 75 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,120 a lot of it was actually taking place right out 76 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,839 here on the Sunset Strip and the Hollywood, just like 77 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:05,879 the hippie. 78 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: So it's more accurate to say that it's it's a 79 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:13,120 consciously moving out of psychedelic like so like those older 80 00:05:13,199 --> 00:05:15,279 Pink Floyd albums, you know what I mean, like those 81 00:05:15,319 --> 00:05:19,000 early ones Adam Hart, Mother and things like this. Would 82 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:23,040 that be a closer analog because some of those kind 83 00:05:23,079 --> 00:05:27,120 of had political messages, But I don't know does punk 84 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,639 begin to be political or does it later take on 85 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,399 a political approach. 86 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,439 Speaker 3: It's yeah, that's really wrote those early Pink Floyd albums. 87 00:05:35,519 --> 00:05:39,319 Actually the first Pink Floyd album is what Pypers Piper's 88 00:05:39,319 --> 00:05:43,040 at the Gates have Gone, and that that's that sounds 89 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,639 with the would sit there. That's actually that actually sounds 90 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:52,279 a little bit more like what psychedelic music originally, you know, 91 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,560 was sounding like. And then as you move through you know, 92 00:05:55,639 --> 00:05:58,360 Pink Floyd's repertoires, they sound a little bit more on 93 00:05:58,399 --> 00:06:02,879 the hippie side. There is there's like a line of 94 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,639 demarcation in the sound. It's kind of hard to explain. 95 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,959 But as far as the political aspects of it, I'd 96 00:06:10,959 --> 00:06:16,279 say when punk first started, and even like in the 97 00:06:16,319 --> 00:06:19,879 psychedelic stuff, it was a little bit a little bit 98 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,399 politically you get like little you know, songs here and there, 99 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:29,480 but it mostly was very self absorbed and it mostly 100 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:36,720 focused around kind of leather of activity or maybe like 101 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,240 you know, doing what led Zeppelin did and steal a 102 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:44,839 bunch of stuff from some old blue songs or it 103 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,800 was it was kind of a you know, it was 104 00:06:47,879 --> 00:06:53,040 revolved around like taking a stand against something but not 105 00:06:53,079 --> 00:06:57,920 necessarily overtly political and punking of itself. Like when it 106 00:06:57,959 --> 00:07:02,480 started in New York in the nineteen seventies, it really 107 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,879 was a very pretentious scene. It was an art scene 108 00:07:05,959 --> 00:07:11,360 that came out of the art schools, and it was 109 00:07:11,439 --> 00:07:15,399 basically people who were who like world wannabes of all 110 00:07:15,439 --> 00:07:17,680 of the rock stars, but they weren't cool enough to 111 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,800 be as big as led Zeppelin. So they kind of 112 00:07:21,519 --> 00:07:27,240 had this own little scene and it and they were 113 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:31,360 on this is this is the other you know, thing 114 00:07:31,399 --> 00:07:35,120 that people misunderstand about punk music is when it first started, 115 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:40,519 it was actually well it actually proliferated through the funny 116 00:07:40,639 --> 00:07:42,839 that was major record label. So it was not a 117 00:07:43,399 --> 00:07:47,079 do it yourself, you know, some of these pressing records 118 00:07:47,079 --> 00:07:49,720 in the basement type thing at all. When it first started, 119 00:07:49,759 --> 00:07:53,120 it was it was you know, the bands who first 120 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,199 came out, they were all on major labels. They just 121 00:07:55,279 --> 00:07:58,600 weren't as well known or probably not given as much 122 00:07:58,680 --> 00:07:59,920 money as the bigger acts. 123 00:08:02,319 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: Well generally, you know, people think of the more prominent 124 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:12,439 ones like Ramones or sex Pistols or Clash, and I mean, 125 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,120 is that the real beginning or is there an earlier 126 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,439 phase that sets it off or would that be the 127 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,319 psychedelic era that you're talking about. 128 00:08:21,959 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, a psychedelic era. It's a bunch of one to 129 00:08:24,079 --> 00:08:29,759 get one of their bands that because it was interesting 130 00:08:29,839 --> 00:08:33,639 because one of the early proto punk bands from the 131 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,759 nineteen seventies of New York is the Patti Smith Group 132 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,600 and the guitar player for her band is a guy 133 00:08:39,639 --> 00:08:44,480 named Lencha K and he decided that it would be 134 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,200 a good idea to with the guy with the owner 135 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,519 of electro record Jack Holtzman, who's got an interesting. 136 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 4: Background by the way. 137 00:08:55,879 --> 00:08:59,919 Speaker 3: They put together a compilation like the quintessential like pro 138 00:09:00,279 --> 00:09:03,559 punk compilation, and they put together back in the seventies. 139 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:09,559 It was called Nuggets the Psychedelic Era, and it has 140 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,200 all these one hit wonder bands and their one hit 141 00:09:12,279 --> 00:09:16,080 wonder songs. But these songs like really did have an 142 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:21,720 impact collectively because they were played on the radio all 143 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,600 the time. I even still remember being a little kid 144 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,679 and the old these radio stations would still play some 145 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,559 of those songs. They don't play them any more, but 146 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:36,679 they used to, and so yeah, they were still they 147 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:43,799 were still having an impact on people by you know, 148 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,320 a decade later, and then you know into the nineteen 149 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,159 eighties that that compilation was you know, sawt after and 150 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,360 still to this day, people uh you know, want copies 151 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,200 of that particular compilation of music. And yes, I would 152 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,600 say that punk definitely comes, I don't know, psychedelic rock music. 153 00:10:05,399 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 2: So let's get to some of the meat then, because 154 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,240 so you've got kind of these well known, bigger name 155 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,720 bands that would be in the seventies, you know, kind 156 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:20,000 of the the face of punk. Would you support the 157 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,679 thesis that even back then early on, beyond just being 158 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,679 on a major record label, where there already people with 159 00:10:27,799 --> 00:10:32,960 strange connections and maybe you know, a musical version of 160 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,639 Hollywood royalty, right, that people are kind of given these 161 00:10:37,159 --> 00:10:40,720 contracts or deals just because of family connections. I know 162 00:10:40,799 --> 00:10:43,320 that for example, you know you and John did are you? 163 00:10:43,399 --> 00:10:46,720 And Christ's some really good talks where you mentioned, oh, 164 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,120 Katy Perry having like a you know, oil magnate uncle, 165 00:10:51,759 --> 00:10:56,480 you know, Miley Cyrus as a Federal reserve you know 166 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:03,559 chairman uncle. They the prominent connections, right, which may or 167 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,159 may not have helped to boost this person into the 168 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,399 stratosphere of quote stardom. What's interesting about the punk idea 169 00:11:11,519 --> 00:11:16,120 is that it to to prima fascia or to the 170 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,240 to to the face of it all, it's supposed to 171 00:11:18,279 --> 00:11:21,679 be anti that, right, it's anti all of this, isn't it? 172 00:11:21,759 --> 00:11:25,720 At least so the narrative goes, Uh, but is it 173 00:11:25,759 --> 00:11:29,840 from the beginning, you know, kind of already being set up, 174 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,519 or do you think there was a period of legitimate, 175 00:11:32,799 --> 00:11:35,559 you know, organic anti establishment. 176 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:43,279 Speaker 3: Further, I well, I don't think that the hippie thing 177 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,240 of itself was ever organic from the conception. I think 178 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,080 it was probably manufactured from the beginning. That's not to 179 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,720 say that the work people involved with it, who were 180 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,919 really who weren't really anti war or anti establishment. That's 181 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,919 what I think with punkins, I think there was probably something. 182 00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:07,399 Like I said, I think when these things are are concocted, 183 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,399 they're concocting them off of off of uh, you know, 184 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:21,480 desires and and what's the word I'm looking for, and 185 00:12:21,639 --> 00:12:25,039 attitudes that that are you know, that are coming as 186 00:12:25,039 --> 00:12:29,399 a result of certain things within society. And you know, 187 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,279 people are studying this type of stuff all the time, right, 188 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,360 you know, all all of the things that blossomed out 189 00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:43,679 of either you know, psychedelic music or punk rock music. Uh, 190 00:12:43,879 --> 00:12:49,480 it doesn't necessarily have to be uh you know, every 191 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:51,840 last little bit had to be like thought up in 192 00:12:51,879 --> 00:12:56,240 the think tank. I just what I generally tend to 193 00:12:56,279 --> 00:12:59,840 think is that that these that there are ideas about, 194 00:12:59,879 --> 00:13:07,080 like what about how to corral people into groups when 195 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:11,360 it comes to rebellion, because rebellion is much easier to 196 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,399 it's it's it's easier to control, but it's also easier 197 00:13:17,399 --> 00:13:21,320 to control if you kick it off yourself. That's that's 198 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,200 the way. That's the way I look at it. So 199 00:13:23,279 --> 00:13:26,399 it's like if nobody's thinking about rebellion and then you 200 00:13:26,759 --> 00:13:29,720 just disciple, you know, nobody's thinking about it right now, 201 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,519 this is probably the best time to do it before 202 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:37,480 somebody starts thinking about it. And so, like I said that, 203 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,600 that's my my right particular view on it. And yes, 204 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,960 you have a lot of interesting connections with a lot 205 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:52,120 of different names and faces when it comes to Punk's beginnings, 206 00:13:53,039 --> 00:13:58,879 and uh, Nino definitely has a whole list, He's got 207 00:13:58,879 --> 00:14:00,759 his whole database full of that type of stuff. But 208 00:14:01,159 --> 00:14:05,240 one thing in particular, if you look at the well 209 00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:07,440 you were mentioning, like the Ramones and the clash and 210 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,799 that type of stuff. Just to give an example, that 211 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:15,519 the New York Dolls are considered to be like, you know, 212 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,840 one of like the first kind of punk bands. I 213 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,039 guess like we're we're punks kind of used. And around 214 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,039 the same time, there's another band called Iggy and the Stooges, 215 00:14:26,879 --> 00:14:31,759 and they also they don't really sound like what punk music, 216 00:14:31,759 --> 00:14:34,600 what you would call punk music. They they would sound 217 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:41,720 kind of more like like a noisy rolling stones. Okay, 218 00:14:41,759 --> 00:14:44,600 so they don't really have the punk sound as people 219 00:14:44,679 --> 00:14:47,480 would think of it. Like, you know, I guess Ramones 220 00:14:47,519 --> 00:14:53,799 and the Clash later would kind of, uh, what's the 221 00:14:53,799 --> 00:14:54,639 world's put it? 222 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 4: The world? 223 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 3: You know that that's kind of what people think is 224 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:06,159 when you think of punk, right and so. But but 225 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,600 the but the New York scene in it of itself 226 00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:12,919 is is like full like like I was saying, it 227 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,720 comes out of the arts school scene. It doesn't have 228 00:15:16,919 --> 00:15:20,080 anything to do with rebellion at all. 229 00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 2: So what is it London or New York that's really 230 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,879 or or La that's kind of the real birthplace. What 231 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,720 would you say, Oh, New York? 232 00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:38,559 Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, it goes New York London and then proliferates 233 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:45,720 from the out outwork. So yeah, it's like New York 234 00:15:45,799 --> 00:15:51,320 scene kind of started with Velvet Underground in the sixties, 235 00:15:52,159 --> 00:15:54,919 like the arts scene and Andy orholl And the Factory 236 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:55,799 and all that stuff. 237 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:57,519 Speaker 4: Yeah. 238 00:15:57,919 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: Remember, and I did list and uh for a while 239 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,000 when I was younger to lou Reid and stuff like that. 240 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,120 And I'm wondering, Uh, it seems like I think you 241 00:16:09,159 --> 00:16:11,399 guys touched on that at one point in your series. 242 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,559 And wasn't there there was something bizarre about about lou Reid? 243 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,279 I mean, obviously, you know warhol head connections to the 244 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,360 CIA's interest in his so called art, But wasn't it 245 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,519 wasn't there something curious about lou Reid as well? 246 00:16:26,759 --> 00:16:29,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, lou Reed's got some bizarre stuff in his background. 247 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,000 Meno has the whole list of it. But yeah, he Well, 248 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,200 just for instance, is uh, they have an album called 249 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:46,759 White Light, White Heat. And I was always under the 250 00:16:46,799 --> 00:16:49,840 assumption that White Light White Heat was a reference to 251 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:54,519 Heroine's drugs, right, And I think a lot of other 252 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,519 people were under that assumption as well, that that's kind 253 00:16:57,559 --> 00:17:02,440 of slag for for Haroland. Well, it turns out white 254 00:17:02,559 --> 00:17:08,599 Light White He is actually a reference to philosophical writings. 255 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:15,240 Oh wow, Yeah, so it I guess he wrote that 256 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,200 about you know, Madam bobakk. 257 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 2: Wow, let's say, there you go, like, that's that's a 258 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,319 that's a juicy little tidbit there. I had no, I 259 00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:26,319 had no idea, and you guys probably yeah, I knew 260 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,000 it was something, but I'd forgotten. But there you go. Yeah. 261 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,759 I never would have dreamed that lou Reid was thinking 262 00:17:31,759 --> 00:17:34,680 about Madam Levskie. But actually, when you look at it's 263 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,039 not far fetched because Elvis had an intense interest in 264 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:40,599 Theospian Blovatski. 265 00:17:42,279 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's true as well, I don't think. But 266 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,920 but as far as like don't be cruel or hound 267 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:54,359 Dog having some undertones, I have no. I don't know 268 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:55,079 about that yet. 269 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 2: Hownd dog is an invocation to Cerberus. The don't I'm 270 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,559 gonna I'm joking, yees. 271 00:18:02,279 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 3: Hound Dog's about serious, the U the dog star. Although 272 00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:12,799 you want to, you want to you want to hear funny. 273 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,039 You want to hear a funny thing about about Elvis. 274 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,279 Jail House Rock. Sure, okay, this is just for fun, 275 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,079 but it is kind of weird. Okay, So if you 276 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:27,200 go into the lyrics of jail House Rock, he said 277 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,240 that there's the line that says Number forty seven said 278 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,400 the number three, you're the cutest jail bird I ever 279 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,359 did see. I sure would be delighted with your company. 280 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:41,400 Come on to the jail house rock with me. Right. Well, 281 00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:45,599 in the rest of the song, nobody said anything about 282 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,359 that there were any girls involved in this jail house rock. 283 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 2: I was gonna say, it's prison sucks, isn't it. 284 00:18:51,799 --> 00:19:03,319 Speaker 5: Yeah. Uh, well, I was listening. I was listening with 285 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,200 that song one day and I was like, you know, 286 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,720 I haven't listened to it in a while, and I 287 00:19:07,759 --> 00:19:13,160 was just like, wait a minute, right, I saw it 288 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,880 pointed out somewhere else too after after the fact. 289 00:19:17,279 --> 00:19:19,799 Speaker 2: Well, I could see that if you think about it, 290 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,640 blue blue, blue, Christmas right, blue blow job? 291 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, oral sex obviously lay blue, Yeah exactly, Yeah. 292 00:19:30,599 --> 00:19:36,079 Speaker 2: So Christmas sex. But so so when we hear these 293 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,440 stories of like the I remember hearing the story one time, 294 00:19:39,519 --> 00:19:41,640 like on a documentary or something I don't even remember, 295 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,599 but me or something, and it was like Johnny Rutting 296 00:19:44,599 --> 00:19:47,039 and the sex pistoles came in off the street and 297 00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:51,240 we're just handed guitars and symbols. It was recorded and 298 00:19:51,279 --> 00:19:55,039 they got a contract, which sounds like a legend or 299 00:19:55,079 --> 00:19:57,960 something fantastical. But then again, when you think about the 300 00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:59,920 fact that a lot of bands are kind of just 301 00:20:00,279 --> 00:20:05,559 concocted creations, I can see it as possible. Do you 302 00:20:05,559 --> 00:20:08,039 think that's true? Is that hype or is that a 303 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,720 legend of selling point or or something to it? 304 00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 3: Well, do you mean about the Sex Crystal specifically. 305 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, the story was that that they were just kind 306 00:20:18,039 --> 00:20:20,839 of these you know, drews on the street and then 307 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,200 they some guy was like, hey, that could be the 308 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,680 image of a band this and again I can't. 309 00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Malcolm mclaire and and he owned a 310 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,039 he in a shop called Sex in Piccadilly Circus with 311 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,279 his wife, Vivian Westwood, which, by the way, she is 312 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,160 I'll tell you how punk rock she is. 313 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 3: She designs close Royalty, That's that's the punk and yeah, 314 00:20:54,319 --> 00:20:57,400 Vivian Westwood is high end like hot couture, you know. 315 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you'll see an analogous type of thing where 316 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,559 now with rap music or sort of the edgy rap 317 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,960 that's out there that you know, daughter daughters of bankers 318 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,920 and rothschilds will date rappers, you know what I mean? 319 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 4: That's perceived Oh oh yeah, I saw yeah, I saw that. 320 00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 2: I saw that fashion fashionistas will you know, mimic the 321 00:21:21,279 --> 00:21:23,119 hip hop style and all this kind of stuff. 322 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. 323 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:25,839 Speaker 4: Yeah. 324 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 3: So anyways, the alleged story of the Sex Crystals, I 325 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,559 will never know the real story. But the alleged story 326 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,680 is is that they were you know, Malcolm McLaren pick 327 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,200 picked a bunch of guys who kind of looked the part. 328 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,599 And like I said, it's a believable story, you just 329 00:21:42,599 --> 00:21:44,839 have to kind of look at it the right ways 330 00:21:44,839 --> 00:21:47,559 that he he picked a bunch of guys who kind 331 00:21:47,559 --> 00:21:51,000 of looked a part of of like what he wanted 332 00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:53,079 to put together. He wanted to put together like some 333 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,680 sort of and and this Nino will tell you about 334 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:02,559 Malcolm mclair and he's the situation miss and so he's 335 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,119 into the idea of the society, the spectacle and playing 336 00:22:06,279 --> 00:22:10,240 spectacle out in real life. And so that's exactly what 337 00:22:10,279 --> 00:22:15,599 the Sex Crystals were. It was a spectacle. And even 338 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,400 though I don't have proof, I would definitely say that 339 00:22:19,519 --> 00:22:24,440 I believe it was a manufactured spectacle and probably allowed 340 00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:28,839 to happen because there they put out a record called 341 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,279 you know, God Saved the Queen. She ain't no human being. 342 00:22:34,279 --> 00:22:38,720 There is no future in anyone was dreaming, well, this 343 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,599 was giving radio airplay, and then then it gets you know, 344 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,480 subsequently banned. Of course, when it gets banned, it becomes 345 00:22:46,519 --> 00:22:49,680 more popular than ever. Then they get kicked off their with. 346 00:22:49,759 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 4: Their record label EMI. 347 00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:57,519 Speaker 3: You have to wonder, like, how EMI, being the mega 348 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,960 you know, the mega corporation that they are, how they 349 00:23:01,079 --> 00:23:03,440 ever allowed the sex Pistols to record it and put 350 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:03,759 it out in. 351 00:23:03,759 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 7: The first place. 352 00:23:08,759 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 4: Uh. 353 00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 3: There's the famous uh footage of the sex Pistoles live 354 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:20,440 on you know, live on prime time TV being stoked 355 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:28,680 into saying cuss words on television and yeah, and the 356 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,240 host is getting is begging them on to do it. 357 00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 2: Would you is there a connection? Let me answer you this, John, 358 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,880 you mentioned spectacle. Is there a connection between performance art 359 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,640 and punk? Is there a direct connect there? 360 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 4: Oh? 361 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:46,799 Speaker 7: Absolutely? 362 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,799 Speaker 2: Would this be like the g. G Allen type guys 363 00:23:49,839 --> 00:23:53,000 that that you know are like smearing feces on themselves 364 00:23:53,039 --> 00:23:55,440 as part of the quote act you. 365 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 7: Know what I mean? 366 00:23:57,759 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 3: Absolutely? Yeah, I would say so. I mean I believe 367 00:24:02,039 --> 00:24:03,799 that there are people out there who play in punk 368 00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:07,559 bands who they really really believe in what they're doing 369 00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:11,359 and they think they're gonna whatever they're gonna. 370 00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:15,799 Speaker 7: Yeah, right, you know they're they're that they're really saying, 371 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,359 you know, f you to the world. 372 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 4: Right. 373 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,559 Speaker 3: But I think that when you get into these major 374 00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:26,960 type things, that that that they are aware that they're 375 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,720 putting off a spectacle, and that the spectacle in of 376 00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:32,920 itself is having some sort of ripple effect on society 377 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:40,200 mm hm. And this is you know, when you're when 378 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,839 you're like me, like, you know, fourteen, fifteen years old, 379 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,279 and you know, even earlier, I'd say, probably first heard 380 00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:48,440 punk music when I was like. 381 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:49,279 Speaker 4: Ten or something. 382 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,599 Speaker 3: You know, you're not you don't know what the society 383 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,279 the spectacle is. You don't know whose situation this are, 384 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:57,680 So you're not thinking. 385 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 7: About that sort of thing. You're not in that mindset, 386 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:07,519 and you have no idea that the change just by 387 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,720 you even having access to this type of music is 388 00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:12,720 having on you. 389 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:13,599 Speaker 4: Right. 390 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,599 Speaker 7: But there is somebody who who is aware of that 391 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,559 and is aware of the effect and the change that 392 00:25:23,559 --> 00:25:27,960 that will have on society, whether it be a portion 393 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,799 of society or whether it be as you know, on 394 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:36,279 society as a whole. And so yeah, sex pistols definitely 395 00:25:36,319 --> 00:25:38,359 had that, and I think that that's why they were 396 00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:45,680 allowed to exist for the short time period that they did, 397 00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:52,839 because you know, it couldn't really take itself any any 398 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:58,000 further after after like what they did, like it was 399 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,319 it's like it's like what they what they were doing 400 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:02,640 was kind of after the. 401 00:26:03,279 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 3: Like it had punk in of itself was kind of 402 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,039 burning itself out and. 403 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 4: Like moving into like you know, new wave and. 404 00:26:09,079 --> 00:26:09,839 Speaker 7: That type of stuff. 405 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 3: So it was a it was an overnight sensation type thing, 406 00:26:14,319 --> 00:26:18,880 but it had a dramatic effect on British culture. In fact, 407 00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:22,880 there's a famous quote from Johnny Rotten if you go 408 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,160 watch the documentary of The Filth and the Fury after 409 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,079 the sex Fistol appeared on that television show where they 410 00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:31,680 were just you know, goaded into cussing and seeing filthy 411 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:40,880 words on TV. They they changed British culture forever with 412 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,759 that with that one broadcast on that. 413 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:48,839 Speaker 2: Television mm hmm, yeah. Yeah. Comparable to like an Elvis 414 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,279 type thing, like you know, Elvish gyrating his hips is 415 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,160 like this this big cultural deal. 416 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 3: Well, you can't go back to gosh and darn after 417 00:27:00,559 --> 00:27:04,640 you've heard yeah, god and damn in the same sentence. 418 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,839 Speaker 4: Interesting, right, So that that's kind of how it was. 419 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 3: And I have to say that the British TV. 420 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,519 Speaker 7: You can say pretty. 421 00:27:13,279 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 4: Much anything on British TV now. 422 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, just in my lifetime. It's interesting the things 423 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,000 you can't say, what you can and can't say has 424 00:27:25,079 --> 00:27:29,720 changed almost in reverse. For example, faggot. You can watch 425 00:27:29,759 --> 00:27:32,240 movies in the eighties where they still say faggot right. 426 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,359 It was a joke. Now that is completely not PC. 427 00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:42,440 But you can say g d right on regular network television. 428 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,759 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Well, I mean you can, 429 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,160 like I noticed this on a couple of years ago, 430 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,279 which I saw was just hilarious when I was still 431 00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:59,160 watching movies that on the like when they have the ratio, 432 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,119 you know when they have the little square at the 433 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,200 bottom of the movie and it has the ratings that 434 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,559 rated R for you know, sex violence and whatever. Mh 435 00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:13,240 it also rated are for sex violence and smoking. 436 00:28:16,599 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 2: That's funny. We were talking I was talking to Buddy 437 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,400 Mine about that. Today. We're talking about smoking and the 438 00:28:22,279 --> 00:28:26,400 demonization of tobacco, which is and I think maybe you 439 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,279 and John, you and Chris touched on it on a 440 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,079 show and I agree with I think what I remember 441 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,440 you saying, what I think this demonization of tobacco is 442 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,839 and we're getting getting a far field from punk, but 443 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,559 we'll get back to it. I think that's kind of 444 00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:46,119 just a a social engineering test to see what they 445 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,759 can and can't ban. You see what I'm saying, Like, uh, oh, yeah, 446 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,720 I mean I don't think that they obviously they don't 447 00:28:53,759 --> 00:28:57,839 care about anyone's health. But the demonization of tobacco is 448 00:28:58,079 --> 00:29:03,000 I think intended to be merely a way to set 449 00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:06,200 precedent for saying what you can and can't do, say 450 00:29:06,279 --> 00:29:08,599 like in a public area or at a job, like, oh, 451 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,680 you can't have a smoke break anymore, because smoking is 452 00:29:11,799 --> 00:29:14,720 now a civic sin, you know what I mean? 453 00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:20,599 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm skeptical as to where they're smoking. 454 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:21,319 Speaker 4: Actually gives you cancer. 455 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, like. 456 00:29:23,599 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 3: The act of smoking in it of itself, Like obviously 457 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,400 I believe that the chemicals and the cigarettes aren't give 458 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,279 you cancer. But yeah, right, but not tobacco. 459 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 7: No, I don't. 460 00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 3: I don't believe tobacco gives you cancer, So. 461 00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 2: Let me ask you about that. 462 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 7: But I don't. 463 00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 3: But I don't smoke, So that's even coming from a 464 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:43,599 non smoker. 465 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:52,359 Speaker 2: So if we go back to the question of punk. Well, 466 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,039 I mean I remember when I was a kid saying 467 00:29:54,039 --> 00:29:58,160 in the eighties, the idea of a punk rocker was 468 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:04,440 something that was kind of telegraphed through movies or comedies. Right. 469 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,359 It was kind of like a oh the punk guy, 470 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:08,720 you know what I mean. He was just kind of 471 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,119 a comical sort of character who might show up in 472 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,400 a sitcom or show up in a movie or something 473 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:20,079 like this. But it was never Did punk music really 474 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,799 have much of effect in terms of the American youth, 475 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,160 is what I'm trying to say. I mean, everybody still 476 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,200 listens to the Beatles and the Doors and that kind 477 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:30,640 of stuff, and I do see a lot of people 478 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,200 wearing Ramone shirts and things like this. But I mean, 479 00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:36,039 to what degree would you say that quote punk music 480 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,119 has infected the American psyche? 481 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:50,279 Speaker 3: Well, I'd say it's effected the American psyche ninety eight percent. 482 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:51,119 Speaker 4: Right. 483 00:30:53,799 --> 00:31:00,839 Speaker 3: Well, let's say let's say this. Ever, you ever watched 484 00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:04,319 a cooking show and the Food Network? Uh? 485 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, probably one or two ever in my life. 486 00:31:06,799 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 4: Yeah. 487 00:31:08,519 --> 00:31:12,279 Speaker 3: Okay, so you're familiar with how chefs are all sleeved 488 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,200 now and they have mohawks. 489 00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:17,119 Speaker 2: No, I didn't know that. 490 00:31:19,359 --> 00:31:22,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can turn on the cooking channel, and it's 491 00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:24,200 like a trend now for like chefs to be like 492 00:31:24,319 --> 00:31:27,759 fully sleeved in tattoos and like have mohawks. 493 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,079 Speaker 2: So you're saying, so, so maybe not so much of 494 00:31:31,079 --> 00:31:35,079 the music style, but but the the image of that, 495 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,079 so like cyber cyberpunk and like the the scrill x 496 00:31:39,319 --> 00:31:42,200 you know, shaved head type look. 497 00:31:42,599 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 3: That that just just I think I think punk did 498 00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:52,960 more to proliferate the tattoo image than than heavy metal, 499 00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:56,640 because I'll give you an example. I think the only 500 00:31:56,799 --> 00:32:01,880 sleeved heavy metal guy I ever saw was was either 501 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,519 Blackie Lawless from Wasp or Nikky six from Motley Crue. 502 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,960 There wasn't really many like fully sleeved heavy metal guys 503 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:20,559 back in the eighties, but punkers are fully sleeves, and 504 00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:22,480 that that whole thing kind of started a little bit 505 00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:24,839 later in like the late eighties and the nineties, started 506 00:32:24,839 --> 00:32:29,960 seeing you know, guys like Social Distortion and what's that, 507 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,920 what's that other band Rancid, Like you know, everybody in 508 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,160 the band is has like has like tattoos from the 509 00:32:37,319 --> 00:32:40,960 neck down, like just fully covered and so like that 510 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,400 whole thing, that whole thing comes out you know and 511 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,400 that that that of itself comes from jail house and 512 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,400 biker stuff and all that stuff. But it but it 513 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,720 proliferated into the punk scene, and then from the punk 514 00:32:53,759 --> 00:32:55,960 scene it proliferated out into the general public. 515 00:32:58,319 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 2: You gotta keep them separating. 516 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:03,519 Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly. 517 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 2: I think I think you guys actually touched on the 518 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,359 Offspring at one point in the talk, uh where you were, 519 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,440 I think you said that that guy actually wasn't really 520 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:14,119 into music. 521 00:33:17,119 --> 00:33:19,799 Speaker 3: Oh, you know, the all of the pulp ands they 522 00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:22,799 have these they have a lot of these stories, especially 523 00:33:22,839 --> 00:33:26,880 the later ones. And that similar that guy, that guy 524 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,880 Dexter from a GOS friend, he is a what was 525 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:38,680 he a bio engineer. He's like he's like a bio 526 00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:42,599 engineer and wrote like some thesis on h I V 527 00:33:44,519 --> 00:33:47,440 just some bizarre you look look it up. It's just's bizarre. 528 00:33:47,599 --> 00:33:51,759 I mean he's like a doctor right simple. With the 529 00:33:52,039 --> 00:33:53,799 with the guy from Batter Religion, the guy from Bad 530 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,720 Religion is a you know he he gets interviewed on 531 00:33:56,839 --> 00:33:59,240 m S NBC because he's like one of the top atheists, 532 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:04,359 hangs up with Sam Harris. He like teaches the EU 533 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,440 c o A. He's a professor so that's what punk 534 00:34:08,559 --> 00:34:10,599 is obviously. I mean, when you think of punk, you 535 00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:14,079 think of like, you know, wealthy academics, like hanging out 536 00:34:14,119 --> 00:34:15,000 in the halls of power. 537 00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 4: Right. 538 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,599 Speaker 2: Well, that's a great segment to where I wanted to 539 00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:22,159 go next, because I remember some of the first talks 540 00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:25,400 that you guys did that set the series off. You 541 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:31,239 were touching on Henry Rawlins, and that's only that's one 542 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,239 of the few punk people that I didn't know a 543 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,760 little bit about, and I always thought it was weird 544 00:34:37,039 --> 00:34:38,960 just because of, you know, Henry Rowlins kind of having 545 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,440 a Hollywood connect and being in films and comedies and 546 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,920 so forth, and at the same time being this poet. 547 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,400 And then he's also got these like weird economics degrees 548 00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:54,039 or whatever his degree was at, you know, some strange 549 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,920 establishment university. I've already forgotten what it was, but maybe 550 00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:04,239 that was a doubt, okay, But his dad was. 551 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 3: An economics as an E columnist. And yeah, I mean 552 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,000 the way the way that I got kicked off on 553 00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:20,440 this original information was because of Dave McGowan. 554 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:22,159 Speaker 4: I read. 555 00:35:22,199 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 3: I read Dave mcgallan's books, I read it, but I 556 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,760 read these articles like two thousand and eight, two thousand 557 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:35,079 and nine, right when they came out, and and I 558 00:35:35,159 --> 00:35:37,400 just got to thinking one day that, like a couple 559 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,920 of years earlier, like around two thousand and six, some 560 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,760 friends of mine had been having a conversation and I 561 00:35:44,159 --> 00:35:46,239 was kind of halfway listening to the conversation, but they 562 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,639 were discussing a documentary called American Hardcore, and it was 563 00:35:49,639 --> 00:35:55,039 a movie about punk. And one of the things that 564 00:35:55,079 --> 00:35:57,719 gets mentioned in this movie, maybe even for the first 565 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:02,119 time bringing this to light, is that a lot of 566 00:36:02,159 --> 00:36:08,800 the original Washington d C. Punkers are sons of people 567 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,679 in powerful positions. And so my friends were talking about this, 568 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,960 and one of the persons that they mentioned was a 569 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,679 guitar player from band called Marginal Man, and his name 570 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,519 is Kenny in Away, and his dad was Senator Daniel 571 00:36:23,559 --> 00:36:24,880 in Away, the guy who was the head of the 572 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,519 I Ran Contra hearings, and that guy was like a 573 00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:34,960 senator for like fifty years, basically like like he's like 574 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:40,559 American Royalty. Yeah, right, Well, his son was in a 575 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:45,119 DC political punk band, and once you get into the 576 00:36:45,199 --> 00:36:47,440 Washington d C. Scene, that's where you start to and 577 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,440 you know the culmination of kind of moving away from 578 00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:54,679 punk and then into this thing called hardcore, which took 579 00:36:54,679 --> 00:36:57,360 on a whole new life and meaning of its own. 580 00:36:58,639 --> 00:37:00,480 That's where you see the politics. 581 00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:00,679 Speaker 7: To creep in. 582 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 3: It's it moves away from this like lyrics kind of 583 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:10,880 focusing on leisure and and you know, rejection, and you 584 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,559 see it kind of more uh, taken on political things. 585 00:37:17,159 --> 00:37:24,079 And you can spend the entire catalog of punk and 586 00:37:24,599 --> 00:37:29,840 I will challenge anyone to find anything conservative, because I've 587 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:36,639 never It is entirely dominated by liberal philosophy. 588 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, you know you look at Rollins's activism as 589 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,360 LGBT stuff. And I had thought about there was something 590 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:51,280 Manson related, and he produced an album of acoustic songs 591 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:56,360 for the famed convict Manson called Completion Henry Rowlins. 592 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 3: Now you just hit means something that I didn't know. 593 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 4: I didn't know. 594 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 3: I didn't know he So Rollins put out in an 595 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:06,679 album for Manson. 596 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:14,079 Speaker 2: Yes, there is almost total total completion. And and I 597 00:38:14,119 --> 00:38:17,400 was thinking about that because I remember I've had some 598 00:38:17,519 --> 00:38:20,719 friends over the years who were off and on Henry 599 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,679 Rollins fans, and so they would, you know, they would 600 00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:26,599 mention stuff here and there about him, and there always 601 00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:29,079 seemed to be this kind of activism in regard to Rollins, 602 00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:34,079 where he's always championing some cause, but the causes are incoherent. 603 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,840 They're not. They're always like it's like he's selling something, 604 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,519 you know what I mean, But it's not. It's not 605 00:38:40,639 --> 00:38:44,119 part of a coherent, coherent worldview. It's like manson over here, 606 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,559 LGBT over here. Uh, you know, it's all over the 607 00:38:48,559 --> 00:38:50,320 board kind of, and then it's going to be world 608 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,760 hunger relief. You know, this is just all over the board, 609 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,280 West Memphis three right. Basically whatever could be a quote 610 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,280 liberal cause right in a general sense, but it's still 611 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,679 not consistent because you know, a lot of these so 612 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,320 called liberal causes are not liberal. 613 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,039 Speaker 3: Well let me just you know, Nemil will give you 614 00:39:11,039 --> 00:39:12,960 a larger picture of Henry Rollands, but I'll give you 615 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,119 a brief one. He basically went to the bullet He 616 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,320 attended the Bullist Naval Academy. Okay, now, bull the Bullis 617 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,840 Naval Academy is where you like billionaires kids go. 618 00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 4: It's where. 619 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 3: It's where it's a naval prep school for the Naval 620 00:39:31,039 --> 00:39:37,760 Observatory and it's a very very prestigious school. Now this 621 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:45,920 connects with with Miguelan here because m John Phillips from 622 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,519 the Moments and the Popa is also attended the Bullist Academy. Okay, 623 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,119 and John Phillips' you know. Mcguellan points out that m. 624 00:39:55,679 --> 00:39:59,559 Phillips is like the kingpin of you know, basically the 625 00:39:59,559 --> 00:40:04,119 whole Laurel Canyon c i a there, Well, yeah, that's 626 00:40:04,119 --> 00:40:05,360 where mister Rollins is. 627 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:06,239 Speaker 4: And guess who's the. 628 00:40:06,159 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 3: Most popular punk of all time? Kennedy Rollins And Henry 629 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,719 also lives and he lives in Benedict Canyon right next 630 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:22,360 to Lawrel Kenyon. But but yeah, Henry went to the 631 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:28,880 Bullus Academy. He was, you know, he went to Did 632 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:34,880 he go to American University? He attended. He attended the 633 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,199 American University for a little bit. He worked at the 634 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:44,840 National Institute of Health for a little bit. He he 635 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,199 did some other stuff. But yeah, he's and then his dad, 636 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:54,199 his dad is Paul. Henry's real name is not Rawlins. Apparently, 637 00:40:55,639 --> 00:40:58,000 you know, you've got so many stories with this guy's life. 638 00:40:58,039 --> 00:41:00,880 He's got a whole bunch of stories about whole different things. 639 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:06,639 But Rollins is apparently a like like a character or 640 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,199 like some sort of entity that he becomes when he's 641 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:11,199 on stage. 642 00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:19,599 Speaker 2: Oh so he's got the mythology of the Gaga type thing, right, which, yes, yeah, 643 00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:22,840 the stage persona like you know Ziggie Star does type thing. 644 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,760 Speaker 3: Yeah he so, Rollins is the name of the of 645 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,800 the being he is when he's on stage. But then 646 00:41:31,519 --> 00:41:34,159 his real name in real life is Henry Garfield. But 647 00:41:34,199 --> 00:41:37,880 that's not even his real name either. His family's real 648 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,599 name is Garfinkel. 649 00:41:40,119 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, okay, Well, and so his dad, Jews, 650 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,599 changed their name for Hollywood. So yeah, yeah, so. 651 00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:51,880 Speaker 3: Well his dad changed the name at some point. I 652 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,440 don't know why. But his dad was in the navy too, 653 00:41:55,199 --> 00:42:00,440 and his dad became an economist. But he not just 654 00:42:00,519 --> 00:42:05,119 any economist. He is a he's an economist who is 655 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:11,480 hired for like he's like he's like a hired witness 656 00:42:11,519 --> 00:42:18,920 like for court cases within government. Okay, but he's also 657 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:26,280 like a public utility economist. It's like really it's really 658 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:27,159 highland stuff. 659 00:42:27,199 --> 00:42:27,639 Speaker 7: Apparently. 660 00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:31,639 Speaker 3: It's it's stuff that where you know, like like they're 661 00:42:31,679 --> 00:42:37,320 looking at resources where like what to like invest in 662 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,239 like as far as resources for the future, and like 663 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,199 how to make how to make profits off of resources? 664 00:42:44,599 --> 00:42:47,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, so like mega level shady stuff. 665 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:48,639 Speaker 5: Yeah. 666 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, his dad is a big he's a big time dude. 667 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,039 Speaker 2: Well let me ask you. Okay, so let's say, like 668 00:42:55,119 --> 00:42:57,480 a skeptic. Now I can agree with you, But if 669 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,199 somebody is listening, like I have, one of my old 670 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,360 buddies from high school might be listening and he's a big, 671 00:43:04,119 --> 00:43:05,519 big fan of some of these bands. 672 00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 4: He's a. 673 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:08,840 Speaker 2: Big fan of a band I'm going to ask you 674 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,960 about here in a minute. But like, let's say somebody 675 00:43:12,039 --> 00:43:13,960 was skeptical and they were listening to this and they 676 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,119 were saying, well, John, look, the only reason these people 677 00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:20,239 are getting these gigs is simply because their their their 678 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,639 family is connected. Okay, this is just the reality of 679 00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:25,440 the world that some people are connected. And here you 680 00:43:25,519 --> 00:43:29,320 are leaping to some conclusion that that means that they're like, 681 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,719 you know, tools of social engineering or icons of social engineering. 682 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,000 What what would you say to that? 683 00:43:38,159 --> 00:43:40,119 Speaker 3: Look at the look at the world you're living in. 684 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,559 I mean, can you honestly look back at the sixties 685 00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:49,320 and say that wasn't a social engineering project? Like knowing 686 00:43:49,599 --> 00:43:52,800 knowing what you know? I'm saying you, Jay, Let's let's 687 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,760 just say, for instance, you were the skeptic and you 688 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:55,559 were challenging me. 689 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,280 Speaker 7: Right, knowing what. 690 00:43:58,199 --> 00:44:01,679 Speaker 3: You know about social engineering looking back on the sixties 691 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,039 doesn't make it hard to think, man, that was that 692 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,079 was a total social engineering project, because if it was 693 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,920 real opposition, it would have never even got it off 694 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:10,400 the ground. 695 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't get a lot of big support and 696 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,320 money and deals and contracts, you know, at the level 697 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:22,280 of national interest and total exposure, unless you're playing ball 698 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:27,840 with the kinds of plans that they have. So like, 699 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:32,320 for example, today we see it when people are caving 700 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,320 to things like transgender right, and you hear stories of oh, 701 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:37,559 so and so it is not going to be hired 702 00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:40,760 anymore because they're you know, they're not going along with 703 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,760 a transgender agenda. I'm just using using that as one 704 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,079 example because I think that there has been a there's 705 00:44:46,079 --> 00:44:51,559 been a conscious decision to push transgenderism and you know, yeah. 706 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,079 Speaker 3: And a lot of that came out of polk Rock too. 707 00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:59,760 Speaker 2: Oh interesting, So, oh, what's that guy's name? Who's that guy? 708 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:05,280 The British guy who's like a real weird experimental uh 709 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,119 and changes his gender all the time, kind of an 710 00:45:08,159 --> 00:45:11,800 electro pops punk guy. 711 00:45:14,119 --> 00:45:14,679 Speaker 4: I'm going. 712 00:45:20,119 --> 00:45:24,880 Speaker 2: He's into into Crowleianism stuff. The UK guy who's done 713 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:30,119 all kinds of weird quasi porn type music, but pretty popular, 714 00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:37,039 pretty pretty well known character. Well, you guys mentioned him. 715 00:45:37,039 --> 00:45:39,840 He actually came up in in the course of the series, 716 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,159 and I know you mentioned a lot of names, but 717 00:45:43,159 --> 00:45:45,880 he's one of these British figures who's still kind of, 718 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,119 you know, seen as avant garde. He's still seen as 719 00:45:50,039 --> 00:45:56,880 relevant and popular in that that that very fringe. The 720 00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,039 only reason I know about him is because I like 721 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,079 the electra of stuff and and he's also classed in 722 00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:05,599 that at times. But he but he's a big transgender guy. 723 00:46:05,679 --> 00:46:10,360 I forget his name. But anyway, I wanted to ask 724 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,800 you about Figazzi. Uh I remember that came up in 725 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,719 the discussion. So two questions here. You mentioned the d 726 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,199 C scene, So how do we get a d C 727 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:24,519 scene out of New York, London, l A. How do 728 00:46:24,639 --> 00:46:27,159 where does d C come into this? And is there 729 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:28,960 anything interesting about Figazi? 730 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:32,360 Speaker 4: Uh? 731 00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:42,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, the DC scene stems d C is is uh, well, 732 00:46:42,199 --> 00:46:45,880 I would it will be second wave of poke and 733 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:51,000 second wave poke? Is this more this metamorphosis into what 734 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,320 I was talking about hardcore tunk? It's faster, it's louder, 735 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,000 it's you know, got political elements in it. 736 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:05,079 Speaker 7: It has it splinters off and all sorts of different stuff, straight. 737 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 3: Edge and veganism and you know, hardcore cruise. You know, 738 00:47:11,039 --> 00:47:14,239 I'm gonna my crew is gonna come, you guys singing 739 00:47:14,559 --> 00:47:17,360 songs about how this crew is gonna beat up this 740 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:22,000 other crew and stuff, ridiculous stuff. But yeah, all this 741 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:23,199 stuff comes. 742 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:23,679 Speaker 4: In the stucket. 743 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:30,360 Speaker 2: I just remember it. Genesis p Orridge, Genesis p Rige. 744 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,079 Speaker 7: Yeah, that's the guy. 745 00:47:35,039 --> 00:47:37,719 Speaker 2: Well, I believe he's originally a guy. I think he's 746 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:38,360 a woman. 747 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,639 Speaker 4: Now he says, no, you st he stump me. 748 00:47:41,679 --> 00:47:42,920 Speaker 3: I don't, I've never heard him. 749 00:47:43,199 --> 00:47:46,079 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, he's another one of these interesting guys you 750 00:47:46,079 --> 00:47:50,840 would like in your series. So yes, you'd look into him. Okay, yeah, 751 00:47:51,079 --> 00:47:52,039 it just popped in my head. 752 00:47:52,119 --> 00:47:53,639 Speaker 4: Go ahead, Yeah that's cool. 753 00:47:53,679 --> 00:47:54,119 Speaker 7: That's cool. 754 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:55,199 Speaker 4: Yeah. 755 00:47:55,199 --> 00:47:59,840 Speaker 3: So this second move of punk it kind of yeah, 756 00:48:00,119 --> 00:48:02,880 so it comes out of New York and London by 757 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:09,719 way of like a younger you know, a younger generation 758 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,679 was you know, caught wind of this punk rock stuff. 759 00:48:13,079 --> 00:48:15,960 Kids were like a little bit younger, and then they 760 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,239 started playing punk and then so you know, by the 761 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:22,559 time the late seventies, early part of the eighties kicks in, 762 00:48:23,199 --> 00:48:28,199 that's when you have this DC scene come up. Okay 763 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:34,440 and the yeah, like it was saying, the the New 764 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:39,079 York scene kind of starts in the late sixties early seventies, 765 00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:44,840 The British scene starts in seventy six or seventy seven 766 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:50,480 around there, and then the DC scene comes in about 767 00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:56,079 seventy i'd say, seventy eight, seventy nine, eighty around there, 768 00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:02,559 and so yeah and so like. So for Gazzi, for 769 00:49:02,639 --> 00:49:04,920 Gazzi is a little bit later, but Forgazzi started by 770 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,519 Ian McKay in. McKay of course is famous for owning 771 00:49:09,679 --> 00:49:14,559 the record label Discord Records, and famous for being the 772 00:49:14,639 --> 00:49:21,159 lead singer of the band Minor Threat. Minor Threat. I 773 00:49:21,159 --> 00:49:25,559 think they started to round seventy eight seventy nine, but 774 00:49:26,199 --> 00:49:30,119 they were popular for the fact that they brought about 775 00:49:30,159 --> 00:49:33,920 this term straight edge, which is a whole other splinter 776 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:39,599 scene altogether having to do with no smoking, no drinking. 777 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,679 Speaker 2: That's always weirding me out, like where does this does 778 00:49:44,679 --> 00:49:49,239 this come from? The sub subgenre of the Christian punk. 779 00:49:50,519 --> 00:49:52,679 Speaker 3: That has nothing to do with Christianity, actually has to 780 00:49:52,679 --> 00:50:00,440 do with atheism. They are atheist nonconformists who don't believe 781 00:50:00,519 --> 00:50:03,159 in drinking or smoking, ring that stuff because that is 782 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:08,800 you know, part of that is, Yeah, you are conforming 783 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,599 to society by drinking and smoking and eating meat and 784 00:50:11,639 --> 00:50:14,079 doing drugs and all that type of stuff because that 785 00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,639 is the norm within society. You don't conform to that. 786 00:50:17,039 --> 00:50:19,760 So it takes this kind of punk ethos and it 787 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,280 turns it on its head. This is the product of 788 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:29,320 Ian McKay basically because the Washington DC scene didn't totally 789 00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,760 conform to this ethos, but he kind of took it 790 00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,519 and you know, ran with it and very popularized it. 791 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:42,079 And so for Gazi takes on this same thing, but 792 00:50:42,119 --> 00:50:44,079 they're a little bit later there. I think they start 793 00:50:44,119 --> 00:50:49,159 around like nineteen eighty five. And like I said, Ian 794 00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:53,119 McKay was the singer of that band's guitar player. And 795 00:50:53,199 --> 00:50:55,880 he's got an interesting background because his god worked for 796 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,639 the Washington Post. He was a White House correspondent for 797 00:50:58,719 --> 00:50:59,719 the Washington Post. 798 00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:02,679 Speaker 2: That's what it was, yes, okay. 799 00:51:02,679 --> 00:51:09,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, and his dad was in the JFK motorcade, So 800 00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:13,679 so yeah, he was there JFK Motorcade. His dad runs 801 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,159 some sort of nowadays he runs like some sort of 802 00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,880 n g O, some sort. 803 00:51:19,079 --> 00:51:21,480 Speaker 2: Full boys and twenty three riffs. I go, oh, that's 804 00:51:21,519 --> 00:51:22,280 great nature. 805 00:51:25,039 --> 00:51:29,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it was he. You know what's interesting is 806 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,400 as we get as we get along in the series, 807 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,360 I'm not kidding, there's like a bunch of people whose 808 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:40,920 parents were like King Dallas in you know, on the 809 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:45,440 Faithful Day. Yeah, there's like a bunch of punk people 810 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,679 who like their parents just happened to being daily. 811 00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:49,159 Speaker 5: Plot of that day. 812 00:51:49,199 --> 00:51:52,679 Speaker 3: I don't know what that's all about, but the Indka's 813 00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:54,519 dad was one of them. He was in the murdercade. 814 00:51:54,519 --> 00:51:56,800 He was like covering it for the Post or something, 815 00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:06,320 and that Nina's got a whole list of what Ian 816 00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:12,039 McKay's background, like what his grandparents were into eugenics, all 817 00:52:12,119 --> 00:52:14,440 sorts of bizarre stuff. But just to say that he 818 00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:19,320 comes from an establishment family that you know, like like 819 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,199 I can't I can't remember which one it was. Neil 820 00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,280 will tell you though, but he has the uh, their parents, 821 00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,800 you know, have to do with the Sidwell School where 822 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,000 you know, all the people in Washingtons and the kids. 823 00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:38,880 Speaker 2: Oh okay, I've been listening to the first half of 824 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,920 my interview with independent researcher and musician John Adams of 825 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,599 The Afternoon Commute. If you want to hear the full talk, 826 00:52:45,639 --> 00:52:48,039 go to Jasonallsis dot com and subscribe for four ninety 827 00:52:48,079 --> 00:52:51,000 five a month or for sixty dollars a year, and 828 00:52:51,039 --> 00:52:53,800 I will give you the email access to all the 829 00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,920 archives talks, lectures, interviews and podcasts over the last couple 830 00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,239 of years. And also check out my book to are 831 00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,480 Hollywood Sex Cults and Symbols and Film. There's a tab 832 00:53:02,519 --> 00:53:04,360 at the website where you can purchase the book.