Speaker 1: This is Jay Dyer from Jay's Analysis. You're listening to
Esoteric Hollywood. Esoteric Hollywood is where I deconstruct the biggest
films in an unparalleled way, from the classics of the
silver screen to today's blockbusters. Learned to watch film with
new eyes as we enter Esoteric.
Speaker 2: Hollywood Jay's Analysis. If you followed the work that I've
done in the last year or so, you know that
we've looked into a lot of subject matter dealing with
social engineering. We've looked at Dave McGowan's works pretty in
depth and in particular Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon, And
if you haven't heard that, I would encourage you to
read the book, or go check out the interviews that
he's got on YouTube, or the summary and analysis that
I did to the book and the thesis. There courses
that the sixties free love, hippie generation era this was
not so much an organic movement, but rather something that
might have had elements of organic anti establishment sentiment but
that were later co opted. So tonight what we're going
to do is look at another genre of music, something
probably related maybe tangentially to the sixties counterculture revolution, but
also perhaps just as influenced or co opted, and that
would be the subject of punk music. I'm not a
huge punk music fan. I'm more so in the vein
of being interested in synth wave and new wave and
kind of the eighties keyboard type stuff, depeche Mode and
so forth. But I know that from the last chapter
in Dave's book he actually hinted at the possibility of
a lot of CIA involvement in that scene as well,
perhaps through the character of Miles Copeland. And I was
fascinated actually to hear the entire series of John Adams
and Nino's covering of the punk scene, which they did
over at Chris Chris Kendall's site Hoaxbusters. So I'm honored
to have both John and Nino on Jays Analysis to
do a summary and recap of their excellent full series
on the history of punk and the secret motivations of
the true history of punk music. How are you guys?
Speaker 3: Good?
Speaker 2: Well, all right, So I guess the best place to
start would be let's maybe you guys could give us
a general outline. I'm sure a lot of listeners will
be familiar with punk, but also perhaps not as familiar
with the genre of so I mean, everybody knows about
classic rock and sixties counterculture, and would it be accurate
to say that punk kind of comes out of a
like another phase of this reacting to counterculture, Like is
it a postmodern reaction to counterculture? We know it ties
into an archism. Maybe you guys could talk touch on that, Okay.
Speaker 3: So when you have the same times that you have
the hippie revolution in nineteen sixties, hippie music kind of
splinters off from but would have been relegated as just
psychedelic music. And a lot of the psychedelic rock bands
they didn't have this flowery, you know, a piece of
love type thing associated with them. They were a little
bit more aggressive in their tone and in the in
the sound of the music and the lyrics of the
music were what you would proud of classify as proto punk.
And it's interesting because by the time the polk scene
starts to blossom in the nineteen seventies, a lot of
the songs that these punk bands were covering, they were
just doing covered songs of these earlier this earlier wave
of psychedelic rock music from the nineteen sixties. And just
to give an example to someone who doesn't know, you
go look up something like You're Pushing Too Hard by
the band The Seeds, and it's basically like a punk song,
but it's you know, from nineteen sixty seven. It's like,
you're pushing too hard. You're pushing on me, You're pushing
too hard what you want me to be, You're pushing
too hard with the things you say. You're pushing too
hard every night and day, just real simple and you know,
kind of just a four chord structure, which later on
would be would be what punk would copy. And so
you have almost a decade earlier that that's taking place,
but it's taking place within the realm of psychedelic rock
and revolving around stoners and that type of stuff, and
a lot of it was actually taking place right out
here on the Sunset Strip and the Hollywood, just like
the hippie.
Speaker 2: So it's more accurate to say that it's it's a
consciously moving out of psychedelic like so like those older
Pink Floyd albums, you know what I mean, like those
early ones Adam Hart, Mother and things like this. Would
that be a closer analog because some of those kind
of had political messages, But I don't know does punk
begin to be political or does it later take on
a political approach.
Speaker 3: It's yeah, that's really wrote those early Pink Floyd albums.
Actually the first Pink Floyd album is what Pypers Piper's
at the Gates have Gone, and that that's that sounds
with the would sit there. That's actually that actually sounds
a little bit more like what psychedelic music originally, you know,
was sounding like. And then as you move through you know,
Pink Floyd's repertoires, they sound a little bit more on
the hippie side. There is there's like a line of
demarcation in the sound. It's kind of hard to explain.
But as far as the political aspects of it, I'd
say when punk first started, and even like in the
psychedelic stuff, it was a little bit a little bit
politically you get like little you know, songs here and there,
but it mostly was very self absorbed and it mostly
focused around kind of leather of activity or maybe like
you know, doing what led Zeppelin did and steal a
bunch of stuff from some old blue songs or it
was it was kind of a you know, it was
revolved around like taking a stand against something but not
necessarily overtly political and punking of itself. Like when it
started in New York in the nineteen seventies, it really
was a very pretentious scene. It was an art scene
that came out of the art schools, and it was
basically people who were who like world wannabes of all
of the rock stars, but they weren't cool enough to
be as big as led Zeppelin. So they kind of
had this own little scene and it and they were
on this is this is the other you know, thing
that people misunderstand about punk music is when it first started,
it was actually well it actually proliferated through the funny
that was major record label. So it was not a
do it yourself, you know, some of these pressing records
in the basement type thing at all. When it first started,
it was it was you know, the bands who first
came out, they were all on major labels. They just
weren't as well known or probably not given as much
money as the bigger acts.
Speaker 2: Well generally, you know, people think of the more prominent
ones like Ramones or sex Pistols or Clash, and I mean,
is that the real beginning or is there an earlier
phase that sets it off or would that be the
psychedelic era that you're talking about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a psychedelic era. It's a bunch of one to
get one of their bands that because it was interesting
because one of the early proto punk bands from the
nineteen seventies of New York is the Patti Smith Group
and the guitar player for her band is a guy
named Lencha K and he decided that it would be
a good idea to with the guy with the owner
of electro record Jack Holtzman, who's got an interesting.
Speaker 4: Background by the way.
Speaker 3: They put together a compilation like the quintessential like pro
punk compilation, and they put together back in the seventies.
It was called Nuggets the Psychedelic Era, and it has
all these one hit wonder bands and their one hit
wonder songs. But these songs like really did have an
impact collectively because they were played on the radio all
the time. I even still remember being a little kid
and the old these radio stations would still play some
of those songs. They don't play them any more, but
they used to, and so yeah, they were still they
were still having an impact on people by you know,
a decade later, and then you know into the nineteen
eighties that that compilation was you know, sawt after and
still to this day, people uh you know, want copies
of that particular compilation of music. And yes, I would
say that punk definitely comes, I don't know, psychedelic rock music.
Speaker 2: So let's get to some of the meat then, because
so you've got kind of these well known, bigger name
bands that would be in the seventies, you know, kind
of the the face of punk. Would you support the
thesis that even back then early on, beyond just being
on a major record label, where there already people with
strange connections and maybe you know, a musical version of
Hollywood royalty, right, that people are kind of given these
contracts or deals just because of family connections. I know
that for example, you know you and John did are you?
And Christ's some really good talks where you mentioned, oh,
Katy Perry having like a you know, oil magnate uncle,
you know, Miley Cyrus as a Federal reserve you know
chairman uncle. They the prominent connections, right, which may or
may not have helped to boost this person into the
stratosphere of quote stardom. What's interesting about the punk idea
is that it to to prima fascia or to the
to to the face of it all, it's supposed to
be anti that, right, it's anti all of this, isn't it?
At least so the narrative goes, Uh, but is it
from the beginning, you know, kind of already being set up,
or do you think there was a period of legitimate,
you know, organic anti establishment.
Speaker 3: Further, I well, I don't think that the hippie thing
of itself was ever organic from the conception. I think
it was probably manufactured from the beginning. That's not to
say that the work people involved with it, who were
really who weren't really anti war or anti establishment. That's
what I think with punkins, I think there was probably something.
Like I said, I think when these things are are concocted,
they're concocting them off of off of uh, you know,
desires and and what's the word I'm looking for, and
attitudes that that are you know, that are coming as
a result of certain things within society. And you know,
people are studying this type of stuff all the time, right,
you know, all all of the things that blossomed out
of either you know, psychedelic music or punk rock music. Uh,
it doesn't necessarily have to be uh you know, every
last little bit had to be like thought up in
the think tank. I just what I generally tend to
think is that that these that there are ideas about,
like what about how to corral people into groups when
it comes to rebellion, because rebellion is much easier to
it's it's it's easier to control, but it's also easier
to control if you kick it off yourself. That's that's
the way. That's the way I look at it. So
it's like if nobody's thinking about rebellion and then you
just disciple, you know, nobody's thinking about it right now,
this is probably the best time to do it before
somebody starts thinking about it. And so, like I said that,
that's my my right particular view on it. And yes,
you have a lot of interesting connections with a lot
of different names and faces when it comes to Punk's beginnings,
and uh, Nino definitely has a whole list, He's got
his whole database full of that type of stuff. But
one thing in particular, if you look at the well
you were mentioning, like the Ramones and the clash and
that type of stuff. Just to give an example, that
the New York Dolls are considered to be like, you know,
one of like the first kind of punk bands. I
guess like we're we're punks kind of used. And around
the same time, there's another band called Iggy and the Stooges,
and they also they don't really sound like what punk music,
what you would call punk music. They they would sound
kind of more like like a noisy rolling stones. Okay,
so they don't really have the punk sound as people
would think of it. Like, you know, I guess Ramones
and the Clash later would kind of, uh, what's the
world's put it?
Speaker 4: The world?
Speaker 3: You know that that's kind of what people think is
when you think of punk, right and so. But but
the but the New York scene in it of itself
is is like full like like I was saying, it
comes out of the arts school scene. It doesn't have
anything to do with rebellion at all.
Speaker 2: So what is it London or New York that's really
or or La that's kind of the real birthplace. What
would you say, Oh, New York?
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, it goes New York London and then proliferates
from the out outwork. So yeah, it's like New York
scene kind of started with Velvet Underground in the sixties,
like the arts scene and Andy orholl And the Factory
and all that stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Remember, and I did list and uh for a while
when I was younger to lou Reid and stuff like that.
And I'm wondering, Uh, it seems like I think you
guys touched on that at one point in your series.
And wasn't there there was something bizarre about about lou Reid?
I mean, obviously, you know warhol head connections to the
CIA's interest in his so called art, But wasn't it
wasn't there something curious about lou Reid as well?
Speaker 3: Yeah, lou Reed's got some bizarre stuff in his background.
Meno has the whole list of it. But yeah, he Well,
just for instance, is uh, they have an album called
White Light, White Heat. And I was always under the
assumption that White Light White Heat was a reference to
Heroine's drugs, right, And I think a lot of other
people were under that assumption as well, that that's kind
of slag for for Haroland. Well, it turns out white
Light White He is actually a reference to philosophical writings.
Oh wow, Yeah, so it I guess he wrote that
about you know, Madam bobakk.
Speaker 2: Wow, let's say, there you go, like, that's that's a
that's a juicy little tidbit there. I had no, I
had no idea, and you guys probably yeah, I knew
it was something, but I'd forgotten. But there you go. Yeah.
I never would have dreamed that lou Reid was thinking
about Madam Levskie. But actually, when you look at it's
not far fetched because Elvis had an intense interest in
Theospian Blovatski.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's true as well, I don't think. But
but as far as like don't be cruel or hound
Dog having some undertones, I have no. I don't know
about that yet.
Speaker 2: Hownd dog is an invocation to Cerberus. The don't I'm
gonna I'm joking, yees.
Speaker 3: Hound Dog's about serious, the U the dog star. Although
you want to, you want to you want to hear funny.
You want to hear a funny thing about about Elvis.
Jail House Rock. Sure, okay, this is just for fun,
but it is kind of weird. Okay, So if you
go into the lyrics of jail House Rock, he said
that there's the line that says Number forty seven said
the number three, you're the cutest jail bird I ever
did see. I sure would be delighted with your company.
Come on to the jail house rock with me. Right. Well,
in the rest of the song, nobody said anything about
that there were any girls involved in this jail house rock.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, it's prison sucks, isn't it.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Uh, well, I was listening. I was listening with
that song one day and I was like, you know,
I haven't listened to it in a while, and I
was just like, wait a minute, right, I saw it
pointed out somewhere else too after after the fact.
Speaker 2: Well, I could see that if you think about it,
blue blue, blue, Christmas right, blue blow job?
Speaker 5: Yeah, oral sex obviously lay blue, Yeah exactly, Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Christmas sex. But so so when we hear these
stories of like the I remember hearing the story one time,
like on a documentary or something I don't even remember,
but me or something, and it was like Johnny Rutting
and the sex pistoles came in off the street and
we're just handed guitars and symbols. It was recorded and
they got a contract, which sounds like a legend or
something fantastical. But then again, when you think about the
fact that a lot of bands are kind of just
concocted creations, I can see it as possible. Do you
think that's true? Is that hype or is that a
legend of selling point or or something to it?
Speaker 3: Well, do you mean about the Sex Crystal specifically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the story was that that they were just kind
of these you know, drews on the street and then
they some guy was like, hey, that could be the
image of a band this and again I can't.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Malcolm mclaire and and he owned a
he in a shop called Sex in Piccadilly Circus with
his wife, Vivian Westwood, which, by the way, she is
I'll tell you how punk rock she is.
Speaker 3: She designs close Royalty, That's that's the punk and yeah,
Vivian Westwood is high end like hot couture, you know.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you'll see an analogous type of thing where
now with rap music or sort of the edgy rap
that's out there that you know, daughter daughters of bankers
and rothschilds will date rappers, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: That's perceived Oh oh yeah, I saw yeah, I saw that.
Speaker 2: I saw that fashion fashionistas will you know, mimic the
hip hop style and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So anyways, the alleged story of the Sex Crystals, I
will never know the real story. But the alleged story
is is that they were you know, Malcolm McLaren pick
picked a bunch of guys who kind of looked the part.
And like I said, it's a believable story, you just
have to kind of look at it the right ways
that he he picked a bunch of guys who kind
of looked a part of of like what he wanted
to put together. He wanted to put together like some
sort of and and this Nino will tell you about
Malcolm mclair and he's the situation miss and so he's
into the idea of the society, the spectacle and playing
spectacle out in real life. And so that's exactly what
the Sex Crystals were. It was a spectacle. And even
though I don't have proof, I would definitely say that
I believe it was a manufactured spectacle and probably allowed
to happen because there they put out a record called
you know, God Saved the Queen. She ain't no human being.
There is no future in anyone was dreaming, well, this
was giving radio airplay, and then then it gets you know,
subsequently banned. Of course, when it gets banned, it becomes
more popular than ever. Then they get kicked off their with.
Speaker 4: Their record label EMI.
Speaker 3: You have to wonder, like, how EMI, being the mega
you know, the mega corporation that they are, how they
ever allowed the sex Pistols to record it and put
it out in.
Speaker 7: The first place.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: There's the famous uh footage of the sex Pistoles live
on you know, live on prime time TV being stoked
into saying cuss words on television and yeah, and the
host is getting is begging them on to do it.
Speaker 2: Would you is there a connection? Let me answer you this, John,
you mentioned spectacle. Is there a connection between performance art
and punk? Is there a direct connect there?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 7: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Would this be like the g. G Allen type guys
that that you know are like smearing feces on themselves
as part of the quote act you.
Speaker 7: Know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Yeah, I would say so. I mean I believe
that there are people out there who play in punk
bands who they really really believe in what they're doing
and they think they're gonna whatever they're gonna.
Speaker 7: Yeah, right, you know they're they're that they're really saying,
you know, f you to the world.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: But I think that when you get into these major
type things, that that that they are aware that they're
putting off a spectacle, and that the spectacle in of
itself is having some sort of ripple effect on society
mm hm. And this is you know, when you're when
you're like me, like, you know, fourteen, fifteen years old,
and you know, even earlier, I'd say, probably first heard
punk music when I was like.
Speaker 4: Ten or something.
Speaker 3: You know, you're not you don't know what the society
the spectacle is. You don't know whose situation this are,
So you're not thinking.
Speaker 7: About that sort of thing. You're not in that mindset,
and you have no idea that the change just by
you even having access to this type of music is
having on you.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 7: But there is somebody who who is aware of that
and is aware of the effect and the change that
that will have on society, whether it be a portion
of society or whether it be as you know, on
society as a whole. And so yeah, sex pistols definitely
had that, and I think that that's why they were
allowed to exist for the short time period that they did,
because you know, it couldn't really take itself any any
further after after like what they did, like it was
it's like it's like what they what they were doing
was kind of after the.
Speaker 3: Like it had punk in of itself was kind of
burning itself out and.
Speaker 4: Like moving into like you know, new wave and.
Speaker 7: That type of stuff.
Speaker 3: So it was a it was an overnight sensation type thing,
but it had a dramatic effect on British culture. In fact,
there's a famous quote from Johnny Rotten if you go
watch the documentary of The Filth and the Fury after
the sex Fistol appeared on that television show where they
were just you know, goaded into cussing and seeing filthy
words on TV. They they changed British culture forever with
that with that one broadcast on that.
Speaker 2: Television mm hmm, yeah. Yeah. Comparable to like an Elvis
type thing, like you know, Elvish gyrating his hips is
like this this big cultural deal.
Speaker 3: Well, you can't go back to gosh and darn after
you've heard yeah, god and damn in the same sentence.
Speaker 4: Interesting, right, So that that's kind of how it was.
Speaker 3: And I have to say that the British TV.
Speaker 7: You can say pretty.
Speaker 4: Much anything on British TV now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, just in my lifetime. It's interesting the things
you can't say, what you can and can't say has
changed almost in reverse. For example, faggot. You can watch
movies in the eighties where they still say faggot right.
It was a joke. Now that is completely not PC.
But you can say g d right on regular network television.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Well, I mean you can,
like I noticed this on a couple of years ago,
which I saw was just hilarious when I was still
watching movies that on the like when they have the ratio,
you know when they have the little square at the
bottom of the movie and it has the ratings that
rated R for you know, sex violence and whatever. Mh
it also rated are for sex violence and smoking.
Speaker 2: That's funny. We were talking I was talking to Buddy
Mine about that. Today. We're talking about smoking and the
demonization of tobacco, which is and I think maybe you
and John, you and Chris touched on it on a
show and I agree with I think what I remember
you saying, what I think this demonization of tobacco is
and we're getting getting a far field from punk, but
we'll get back to it. I think that's kind of
just a a social engineering test to see what they
can and can't ban. You see what I'm saying, Like, uh, oh, yeah,
I mean I don't think that they obviously they don't
care about anyone's health. But the demonization of tobacco is
I think intended to be merely a way to set
precedent for saying what you can and can't do, say
like in a public area or at a job, like, oh,
you can't have a smoke break anymore, because smoking is
now a civic sin, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm skeptical as to where they're smoking.
Speaker 4: Actually gives you cancer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, like.
Speaker 3: The act of smoking in it of itself, Like obviously
I believe that the chemicals and the cigarettes aren't give
you cancer. But yeah, right, but not tobacco.
Speaker 7: No, I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't believe tobacco gives you cancer, So.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you about that.
Speaker 7: But I don't.
Speaker 3: But I don't smoke, So that's even coming from a
non smoker.
Speaker 2: So if we go back to the question of punk. Well,
I mean I remember when I was a kid saying
in the eighties, the idea of a punk rocker was
something that was kind of telegraphed through movies or comedies. Right.
It was kind of like a oh the punk guy,
you know what I mean. He was just kind of
a comical sort of character who might show up in
a sitcom or show up in a movie or something
like this. But it was never Did punk music really
have much of effect in terms of the American youth,
is what I'm trying to say. I mean, everybody still
listens to the Beatles and the Doors and that kind
of stuff, and I do see a lot of people
wearing Ramone shirts and things like this. But I mean,
to what degree would you say that quote punk music
has infected the American psyche?
Speaker 3: Well, I'd say it's effected the American psyche ninety eight percent.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: Well, let's say let's say this. Ever, you ever watched
a cooking show and the Food Network? Uh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably one or two ever in my life.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, so you're familiar with how chefs are all sleeved
now and they have mohawks.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't know that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can turn on the cooking channel, and it's
like a trend now for like chefs to be like
fully sleeved in tattoos and like have mohawks.
Speaker 2: So you're saying, so, so maybe not so much of
the music style, but but the the image of that,
so like cyber cyberpunk and like the the scrill x
you know, shaved head type look.
Speaker 3: That that just just I think I think punk did
more to proliferate the tattoo image than than heavy metal,
because I'll give you an example. I think the only
sleeved heavy metal guy I ever saw was was either
Blackie Lawless from Wasp or Nikky six from Motley Crue.
There wasn't really many like fully sleeved heavy metal guys
back in the eighties, but punkers are fully sleeves, and
that that whole thing kind of started a little bit
later in like the late eighties and the nineties, started
seeing you know, guys like Social Distortion and what's that,
what's that other band Rancid, Like you know, everybody in
the band is has like has like tattoos from the
neck down, like just fully covered and so like that
whole thing, that whole thing comes out you know and
that that that of itself comes from jail house and
biker stuff and all that stuff. But it but it
proliferated into the punk scene, and then from the punk
scene it proliferated out into the general public.
Speaker 2: You gotta keep them separating.
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: I think I think you guys actually touched on the
Offspring at one point in the talk, uh where you were,
I think you said that that guy actually wasn't really
into music.
Speaker 3: Oh, you know, the all of the pulp ands they
have these they have a lot of these stories, especially
the later ones. And that similar that guy, that guy
Dexter from a GOS friend, he is a what was
he a bio engineer. He's like he's like a bio
engineer and wrote like some thesis on h I V
just some bizarre you look look it up. It's just's bizarre.
I mean he's like a doctor right simple. With the
with the guy from Batter Religion, the guy from Bad
Religion is a you know he he gets interviewed on
m S NBC because he's like one of the top atheists,
hangs up with Sam Harris. He like teaches the EU
c o A. He's a professor so that's what punk
is obviously. I mean, when you think of punk, you
think of like, you know, wealthy academics, like hanging out
in the halls of power.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: Well, that's a great segment to where I wanted to
go next, because I remember some of the first talks
that you guys did that set the series off. You
were touching on Henry Rawlins, and that's only that's one
of the few punk people that I didn't know a
little bit about, and I always thought it was weird
just because of, you know, Henry Rowlins kind of having
a Hollywood connect and being in films and comedies and
so forth, and at the same time being this poet.
And then he's also got these like weird economics degrees
or whatever his degree was at, you know, some strange
establishment university. I've already forgotten what it was, but maybe
that was a doubt, okay, But his dad was.
Speaker 3: An economics as an E columnist. And yeah, I mean
the way the way that I got kicked off on
this original information was because of Dave McGowan.
Speaker 4: I read.
Speaker 3: I read Dave mcgallan's books, I read it, but I
read these articles like two thousand and eight, two thousand
and nine, right when they came out, and and I
just got to thinking one day that, like a couple
of years earlier, like around two thousand and six, some
friends of mine had been having a conversation and I
was kind of halfway listening to the conversation, but they
were discussing a documentary called American Hardcore, and it was
a movie about punk. And one of the things that
gets mentioned in this movie, maybe even for the first
time bringing this to light, is that a lot of
the original Washington d C. Punkers are sons of people
in powerful positions. And so my friends were talking about this,
and one of the persons that they mentioned was a
guitar player from band called Marginal Man, and his name
is Kenny in Away, and his dad was Senator Daniel
in Away, the guy who was the head of the
I Ran Contra hearings, and that guy was like a
senator for like fifty years, basically like like he's like
American Royalty. Yeah, right, Well, his son was in a
DC political punk band, and once you get into the
Washington d C. Scene, that's where you start to and
you know the culmination of kind of moving away from
punk and then into this thing called hardcore, which took
on a whole new life and meaning of its own.
That's where you see the politics.
Speaker 7: To creep in.
Speaker 3: It's it moves away from this like lyrics kind of
focusing on leisure and and you know, rejection, and you
see it kind of more uh, taken on political things.
And you can spend the entire catalog of punk and
I will challenge anyone to find anything conservative, because I've
never It is entirely dominated by liberal philosophy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, you know you look at Rollins's activism as
LGBT stuff. And I had thought about there was something
Manson related, and he produced an album of acoustic songs
for the famed convict Manson called Completion Henry Rowlins.
Speaker 3: Now you just hit means something that I didn't know.
Speaker 4: I didn't know.
Speaker 3: I didn't know he So Rollins put out in an
album for Manson.
Speaker 2: Yes, there is almost total total completion. And and I
was thinking about that because I remember I've had some
friends over the years who were off and on Henry
Rollins fans, and so they would, you know, they would
mention stuff here and there about him, and there always
seemed to be this kind of activism in regard to Rollins,
where he's always championing some cause, but the causes are incoherent.
They're not. They're always like it's like he's selling something,
you know what I mean, But it's not. It's not
part of a coherent, coherent worldview. It's like manson over here,
LGBT over here. Uh, you know, it's all over the
board kind of, and then it's going to be world
hunger relief. You know, this is just all over the board,
West Memphis three right. Basically whatever could be a quote
liberal cause right in a general sense, but it's still
not consistent because you know, a lot of these so
called liberal causes are not liberal.
Speaker 3: Well let me just you know, Nemil will give you
a larger picture of Henry Rollands, but I'll give you
a brief one. He basically went to the bullet He
attended the Bullist Naval Academy. Okay, now, bull the Bullis
Naval Academy is where you like billionaires kids go.
Speaker 4: It's where.
Speaker 3: It's where it's a naval prep school for the Naval
Observatory and it's a very very prestigious school. Now this
connects with with Miguelan here because m John Phillips from
the Moments and the Popa is also attended the Bullist Academy. Okay,
and John Phillips' you know. Mcguellan points out that m.
Phillips is like the kingpin of you know, basically the
whole Laurel Canyon c i a there, Well, yeah, that's
where mister Rollins is.
Speaker 4: And guess who's the.
Speaker 3: Most popular punk of all time? Kennedy Rollins And Henry
also lives and he lives in Benedict Canyon right next
to Lawrel Kenyon. But but yeah, Henry went to the
Bullus Academy. He was, you know, he went to Did
he go to American University? He attended. He attended the
American University for a little bit. He worked at the
National Institute of Health for a little bit. He he
did some other stuff. But yeah, he's and then his dad,
his dad is Paul. Henry's real name is not Rawlins. Apparently,
you know, you've got so many stories with this guy's life.
He's got a whole bunch of stories about whole different things.
But Rollins is apparently a like like a character or
like some sort of entity that he becomes when he's
on stage.
Speaker 2: Oh so he's got the mythology of the Gaga type thing, right, which, yes, yeah,
the stage persona like you know Ziggie Star does type thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah he so, Rollins is the name of the of
the being he is when he's on stage. But then
his real name in real life is Henry Garfield. But
that's not even his real name either. His family's real
name is Garfinkel.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, okay, Well, and so his dad, Jews,
changed their name for Hollywood. So yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 3: Well his dad changed the name at some point. I
don't know why. But his dad was in the navy too,
and his dad became an economist. But he not just
any economist. He is a he's an economist who is
hired for like he's like he's like a hired witness
like for court cases within government. Okay, but he's also
like a public utility economist. It's like really it's really
highland stuff.
Speaker 7: Apparently.
Speaker 3: It's it's stuff that where you know, like like they're
looking at resources where like what to like invest in
like as far as resources for the future, and like
how to make how to make profits off of resources?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like mega level shady stuff.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, his dad is a big he's a big time dude.
Speaker 2: Well let me ask you. Okay, so let's say, like
a skeptic. Now I can agree with you, But if
somebody is listening, like I have, one of my old
buddies from high school might be listening and he's a big,
big fan of some of these bands.
Speaker 4: He's a.
Speaker 2: Big fan of a band I'm going to ask you
about here in a minute. But like, let's say somebody
was skeptical and they were listening to this and they
were saying, well, John, look, the only reason these people
are getting these gigs is simply because their their their
family is connected. Okay, this is just the reality of
the world that some people are connected. And here you
are leaping to some conclusion that that means that they're like,
you know, tools of social engineering or icons of social engineering.
What what would you say to that?
Speaker 3: Look at the look at the world you're living in.
I mean, can you honestly look back at the sixties
and say that wasn't a social engineering project? Like knowing
knowing what you know? I'm saying you, Jay, Let's let's
just say, for instance, you were the skeptic and you
were challenging me.
Speaker 7: Right, knowing what.
Speaker 3: You know about social engineering looking back on the sixties
doesn't make it hard to think, man, that was that
was a total social engineering project, because if it was
real opposition, it would have never even got it off
the ground.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't get a lot of big support and
money and deals and contracts, you know, at the level
of national interest and total exposure, unless you're playing ball
with the kinds of plans that they have. So like,
for example, today we see it when people are caving
to things like transgender right, and you hear stories of oh,
so and so it is not going to be hired
anymore because they're you know, they're not going along with
a transgender agenda. I'm just using using that as one
example because I think that there has been a there's
been a conscious decision to push transgenderism and you know, yeah.
Speaker 3: And a lot of that came out of polk Rock too.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, So, oh, what's that guy's name? Who's that guy?
The British guy who's like a real weird experimental uh
and changes his gender all the time, kind of an
electro pops punk guy.
Speaker 4: I'm going.
Speaker 2: He's into into Crowleianism stuff. The UK guy who's done
all kinds of weird quasi porn type music, but pretty popular,
pretty pretty well known character. Well, you guys mentioned him.
He actually came up in in the course of the series,
and I know you mentioned a lot of names, but
he's one of these British figures who's still kind of,
you know, seen as avant garde. He's still seen as
relevant and popular in that that that very fringe. The
only reason I know about him is because I like
the electra of stuff and and he's also classed in
that at times. But he but he's a big transgender guy.
I forget his name. But anyway, I wanted to ask
you about Figazzi. Uh I remember that came up in
the discussion. So two questions here. You mentioned the d
C scene, So how do we get a d C
scene out of New York, London, l A. How do
where does d C come into this? And is there
anything interesting about Figazi?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the DC scene stems d C is is uh, well,
I would it will be second wave of poke and
second wave poke? Is this more this metamorphosis into what
I was talking about hardcore tunk? It's faster, it's louder,
it's you know, got political elements in it.
Speaker 7: It has it splinters off and all sorts of different stuff, straight.
Speaker 3: Edge and veganism and you know, hardcore cruise. You know,
I'm gonna my crew is gonna come, you guys singing
songs about how this crew is gonna beat up this
other crew and stuff, ridiculous stuff. But yeah, all this
stuff comes.
Speaker 4: In the stucket.
Speaker 2: I just remember it. Genesis p Orridge, Genesis p Rige.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's the guy.
Speaker 2: Well, I believe he's originally a guy. I think he's
a woman.
Speaker 4: Now he says, no, you st he stump me.
Speaker 3: I don't, I've never heard him.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, he's another one of these interesting guys you
would like in your series. So yes, you'd look into him. Okay, yeah,
it just popped in my head.
Speaker 4: Go ahead, Yeah that's cool.
Speaker 7: That's cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So this second move of punk it kind of yeah,
so it comes out of New York and London by
way of like a younger you know, a younger generation
was you know, caught wind of this punk rock stuff.
Kids were like a little bit younger, and then they
started playing punk and then so you know, by the
time the late seventies, early part of the eighties kicks in,
that's when you have this DC scene come up. Okay
and the yeah, like it was saying, the the New
York scene kind of starts in the late sixties early seventies,
The British scene starts in seventy six or seventy seven
around there, and then the DC scene comes in about
seventy i'd say, seventy eight, seventy nine, eighty around there,
and so yeah and so like. So for Gazzi, for
Gazzi is a little bit later, but Forgazzi started by
Ian McKay in. McKay of course is famous for owning
the record label Discord Records, and famous for being the
lead singer of the band Minor Threat. Minor Threat. I
think they started to round seventy eight seventy nine, but
they were popular for the fact that they brought about
this term straight edge, which is a whole other splinter
scene altogether having to do with no smoking, no drinking.
Speaker 2: That's always weirding me out, like where does this does
this come from? The sub subgenre of the Christian punk.
Speaker 3: That has nothing to do with Christianity, actually has to
do with atheism. They are atheist nonconformists who don't believe
in drinking or smoking, ring that stuff because that is
you know, part of that is, Yeah, you are conforming
to society by drinking and smoking and eating meat and
doing drugs and all that type of stuff because that
is the norm within society. You don't conform to that.
So it takes this kind of punk ethos and it
turns it on its head. This is the product of
Ian McKay basically because the Washington DC scene didn't totally
conform to this ethos, but he kind of took it
and you know, ran with it and very popularized it.
And so for Gazi takes on this same thing, but
they're a little bit later there. I think they start
around like nineteen eighty five. And like I said, Ian
McKay was the singer of that band's guitar player. And
he's got an interesting background because his god worked for
the Washington Post. He was a White House correspondent for
the Washington Post.
Speaker 2: That's what it was, yes, okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and his dad was in the JFK motorcade, So
so yeah, he was there JFK Motorcade. His dad runs
some sort of nowadays he runs like some sort of
n g O, some sort.
Speaker 2: Full boys and twenty three riffs. I go, oh, that's
great nature.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it was he. You know what's interesting is
as we get as we get along in the series,
I'm not kidding, there's like a bunch of people whose
parents were like King Dallas in you know, on the
Faithful Day. Yeah, there's like a bunch of punk people
who like their parents just happened to being daily.
Speaker 5: Plot of that day.
Speaker 3: I don't know what that's all about, but the Indka's
dad was one of them. He was in the murdercade.
He was like covering it for the Post or something,
and that Nina's got a whole list of what Ian
McKay's background, like what his grandparents were into eugenics, all
sorts of bizarre stuff. But just to say that he
comes from an establishment family that you know, like like
I can't I can't remember which one it was. Neil
will tell you though, but he has the uh, their parents,
you know, have to do with the Sidwell School where
you know, all the people in Washingtons and the kids.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I've been listening to the first half of
my interview with independent researcher and musician John Adams of
The Afternoon Commute. If you want to hear the full talk,
go to Jasonallsis dot com and subscribe for four ninety
five a month or for sixty dollars a year, and
I will give you the email access to all the
archives talks, lectures, interviews and podcasts over the last couple
of years. And also check out my book to are
Hollywood Sex Cults and Symbols and Film. There's a tab
at the website where you can purchase the book.