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Speaker 1: We're Tomy Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion

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Fest Elegans. Welcome back to another edition of the Pso

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I am the Tea and you're til Tom Fitzgerald and

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I'm here with the Low and your Telo Lorenzo.

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Speaker 2: We are back from Palin. No I'm missing.

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Speaker 1: No, we're three days back from Paris and still dealing

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with the jet lag. I gotta say, god, yeah, it

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hit us hard.

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Speaker 2: It was a short trip.

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Speaker 1: It was a short trip. It was a five day

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trip to Paris. We wanted it that short. Our last

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few trips to Europe had been in the two week range,

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and we felt like that was just too much.

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Speaker 2: Because we have cats and we missed him, and then

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we have to find someone to take care of them,

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and then we missed him again. It's not just that

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we have to work. We have to work to work.

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So it's two.

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Speaker 1: Weeks of working at a hotel rooms and that's that

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tends to be not fun. So we settled on that.

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We said, let's try this. Let's try a five day

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vacation and see if we can do that. That's enough time.

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And it did work. But the kind of vacationing we

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do I think we've talked about this before. We'll you

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were being city and then the entire time we're there,

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we get up at seven am every single day, hit

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the hotel breakfast, and then we work. We usually work

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for two to three hours in our.

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Speaker 2: Hotel room tick advantage to time.

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Speaker 1: Difference, and then around ten am we're out, and we're

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out until at least eight pm. It's NonStop, never stop.

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Speaker 2: How we do it. It's how we do it. Like it.

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Speaker 1: It's not how everyone likes to do it, but it's

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how we like to do it because we feel like

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we're packing in as many experiences as we can into

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this into the and now this time, because it was

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a short trip and because it was Paris, I put

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my foot down and said, we're going to limit the

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amount of destinations we have because I really just want

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to sit and have wine or or espresso or whatever

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at various cafes and just watch Paris go by. And

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I think that was the right call, right and the reason.

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Speaker 2: And you, you know, you can say, well, I still

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saw a bunch of places, you know, historical places on

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your Instagram account. It's because we happened to best buy them. Anyway, Yeah,

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I'm a lot of them. Ye. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Our plan trips were a Notre Dame because we wanted

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to see the inside of it since it's been refurbished,

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and top of the Eiffel Tower because we'd been to

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Paris before but we had never been to the Eiffel Tower.

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I wanted to go to the Muse Torsa because again,

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again we had been there before, and.

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Speaker 2: It's just a lovely, lovely.

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Speaker 1: Believe you can do the muc and you see a

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in in an afternoon, in a long afternoon, but you

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can do it, and it's.

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Speaker 2: A lot more pleasant than than the Louver booked. That was,

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and we talked about it because of the Sergeant exhibit.

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Uh it was.

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Speaker 1: There was a John Singer sergeant exhibit that we didn't

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even know about, but our best new friend in Paris

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told us all about Nicholas. On our first or second

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night in Paris, we were having dinner at a at

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a cafe. We were sitting outside and this lovely young

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frenchman walked by, very cute and said, excuse me, are

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you Tom and Lorenzo, and we just erupted until after

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the thing is, I don't know what people think about us,

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but we we don't actually live the life of famous people.

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It's not there's nothing about our life. We never get

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stopped on the street. It is not a thing that

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happens to us.

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Speaker 2: It's a coming is of two things. I think, to

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be honest, we're very happy. We're very humble. Number one,

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we're not famous. We're not famous, and we take everything.

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We never take anything for granted. We really appreciate, we

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have always appreciate the support reading our site, listening to

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our podcast, buying your book. I mean, we really thank

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you for this. Yeah, so when we meet you guys

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in person, I mean, we're happy.

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Speaker 1: But he's truly bizarre to us because that's not what

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our day to day life is like. Strangely, I just said,

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we never get stopped. No one ever stops us on

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the street. And ass are you Tom and Lorenzo. I mean,

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when the blogging craze was big and everything, there was

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a lot. I mean, there were a lot of profiles

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of us in newspapers back then, and so it happened

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a little bit more, maybe ten or fifteen years ago,

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but it hasn't happened with any frequency except in Europe.

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I have to stop for a second, in Lisbon, in

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Central Portugal, in Amsterdam, and in Dublin right and now Paris.

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We were we were recognized and stopped in all of

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those places. Now, the guy in Paris, Nicholas, he's actually

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the first European that stopped us. Everybody else was Americans

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who were also vacationing. But it's so strange to me

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that this keeps happening. I think part of it is

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that we announced where we're going on vacation, and then

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people who are well Nicholas told us that he said.

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Speaker 2: You were in town. Yeah, he listened to.

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Speaker 1: The podcast and he knew that we were coming in town.

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And so I don't think he was wandering the streets

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looking for us, but he just happened to stumble across us.

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Speaker 2: He is so charming, so nice, so intelligent, so culture.

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We love him. We needed told him to sit down,

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let's talk, let's chat.

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Speaker 1: He sat with us for a little bit and it

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was just lovely. It was just nice to meet someone.

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Speaker 2: It was nice.

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Speaker 1: And believe me, I don't mean it was nice to

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meet someone who like fawned all over us, because that's

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not what he did. He was just a lovely person

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who asked us who told us things about Paris.

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Speaker 2: He gave suggestion to us. Yeah, and it was nice

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to talk to a local person about Nowtu Dam and

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also what happened at the Louver at the Louver, So

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it was nice to talk to someone local and how

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people reacted and how he felt and all that. So

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it was lovely, lovely. I wish we had had more time,

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but we were about to leave, and.

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Speaker 1: But we exchanged emails and I did tell him, I said,

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you know, if we I wish we could stop and

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have a drink with you sometime, but we're just very busy. However,

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Nicholas were, this will not be your last time, and

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if you.

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Speaker 2: Ever come to Philadelphia, New York, please yes. So that

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it was just a lovely interlude. Yeah. I think that

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was our first night.

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Speaker 1: No second, maybe, but it was just remember it kicked

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off our trip and it was just it was like

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it was very nice.

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Speaker 2: Nicholas. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: We we followed your advice and we saw the Sergeant

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exhibit and we went to the.

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Speaker 2: Uh the restaurant. Yeah, we'll talk about you. Let's just

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get the Sergeant exhibit out of the way. Uh. I'm

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a huge fan. I love his work. H was not

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expecting at all to see so many paintings. It's comprehensive.

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I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't sure Madame Max is going to be there,

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or that that that painting of that doctor who I

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can't remember the name of in the red Verse. It's

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more famous stuff. But it was all there back they

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had studies of Madame x and original versions of it,

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and it was it was comprehensive.

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Speaker 2: And it's there until I got knows when next year

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something was Yeah, it was, it was packed. It was

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you know, any you just have to be patient and

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wait until his return to stare at something. But it's

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it's a beautiful if you never been to the say,

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it's a gorgeous, very.

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Speaker 1: Welcoming nineteenth century train station that was turned into a

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museum in Yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: The exhibit is perfection, just gorgeous. I posted a bunch

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of pictures on Instagram, Uh, some of the paintings if

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you want to take a look at it. But yeah,

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it was a surprise and I'm glad we we we went. Yeah,

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it's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I going into it because I know he was he

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was a portrait artist, and I thought, well, how how

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interesting can an entire show about port Be But it

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was a lovely overview of his entire life and his

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various influences and the various schools of art that he

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moved through.

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Speaker 2: He's traveling and his saying.

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Speaker 1: A lot of it dealt with his time in Paris.

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He spent an awful lot or not Paris, in France.

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He spent an awful lot of time in France during

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his career, studying, as almost every nineteenth century artist of

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any worth ever did. But I think when you see

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someone's portraiture laid out, years and years and years of it,

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which I had never done. I had never seen a

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comprehensive show of Sergeant's work. You see the motifs that

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rise again and again. You see what he brings to

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a portraiture that other people didn't bring. And I'm really,

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I really, I walked out of that exhibit with a

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better understanding of the way, the slightly revolutionary ways that

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he portrayed body language, the way he portrayed gaze, the

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way people looked at the camera, quote unquote camera and hands.

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There were so much attention plan and pay attention to

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anytime you encounter as a Sergeant portrait, right, look at

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the hands. He he's always.

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Speaker 2: He.

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Speaker 1: I feel like he understood that. You know, portraiture, especially

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of that era, is very presentational. It's very artificial, and

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you're you're whoever this person is. They're hoping to present

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the best version of themselves. And routinely he will place

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all this tension in their hands, right, and it just

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lets you know in every instance, this is a pose.

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There's so much tension going on in the way there,

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and it's I never realized until this exhibit pointed it out.

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And then every single picture I immediately stopped and looked

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at the hands, and.

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Speaker 2: It's very unusual.

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Speaker 1: You look at classic portraiture and the hands are very

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graceful and they're very relaxed and everything, but these hands

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are gripping things and holding onto things, and they're they're

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white knuckling certain at certain points. And it was a

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fascinating glimpse into that.

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Speaker 2: But they did a very job. It was a great exhibit.

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Painting that Tom was talking about is to doctor posey

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uh painting. It's just incredible painting.

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Speaker 1: I guess dandalis kind of cologists who had a lot

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of lovers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I had, I had seen pictures, but to see

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it in person, and it's just massive and very colorful,

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like this incredible red jumping out and it was just beautiful.

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Speaker 1: And there's so much sensuality in his work. Uh, it's

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very obvious in Madame X, but it's also extremely obvious

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in the Doctor's Portrait.

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Speaker 2: And Doctor Doctor and and did there were say museum,

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it's it's as you said, it's one of our favorite museums.

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Absolutely wonderful to just walk around, just gorgeous music.

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Speaker 1: I loved returning to it. And that was the thing.

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This was us returning to a lot of places we

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had been to many many, many many years ago that

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we have not been back to since. So there was

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a certain like we went to Paris when we were

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a young couple. We weren't even living together.

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Speaker 2: It was our first trip trip. Yeah, so young.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there was some poignancy to it because I I'm

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not gonna lie. I felt my age, I felt the

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passage of the years. Like looking at something that you

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haven't seen for a quarter century, you feel that quarter century.

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Speaker 2: But it feels very special to look for places and

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look look for you know, corners here and there that

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you took a picture had some sort of meaning to restaurant.

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We went back to a restaurant that we loved.

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Speaker 1: That we loved and it's still there. And it really

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was very touching to be back on that street again.

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Notre Dame. I had seen God now when Notre Dame burned,

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I actually cried that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we were very I was very, very upset.

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Speaker 1: And then I saw the pictures of the refurbished Notre Dame,

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and I honestly I recoiled from them. I thought everything

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looked gleaming, Everything looked like a Trump hotel. It all

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looked so new that it just I was like, that's

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not what a European cathedral is supposed to look like

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on the inside. But we definitely wanted to go, and

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I have to say I was wrong. I found that

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deeply emotional. The work they did is unbelievably beautiful, just

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beautiful on the inside, and it doesn't feel it's jarring

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when you see the pictures, because, like I said, everything

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is so clean and bright. But first off, I believe

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most of the stained glass was saved. I mean it

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was all original stained glass that I was looking at,

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all original stature. It's not like the whole place crumbled.

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It didn't feel new when I was, you still feel

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the weight and the age of the place. And in

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terms of the parts where they had to redo or repaint,

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I thought they were very respectful. There are touches that

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are modern but that esthetically feel correct. For yeah, it

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blends in very bad.

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Speaker 2: Well, and the outside looks kind of just the same.

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Speaker 1: And I mean there's the idea that these are still

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living churches, these are still places of worship and they're

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not stuck in seventeen hundred or whatever.

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Speaker 2: That's something that always shocked me because you are there

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as a tourist, you walking around taking pictures, but you

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look around and people are there and you see this

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a lot.

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Speaker 1: Especially we'll do this when we're walking around in Europe,

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and we did it in Paris, where if there's some

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big church and the doors open and it's okay to

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go in, we'll go in and like an old church, obviously,

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that's what we're looking at. And those smaller, less cathedral,

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those bigleases and stuff, those are the ones where you'll

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walk in and see all the touches that have been

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made over the centuries that are modern. You'll see stuff

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that you're like that was clearly putting there in the

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nineteen forties or that's because they're living churches and they're

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not museums. So I take back my original assessment of

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Notre Dame. It is quite beautiful, and it was quite

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emotional on the inside to see the beauty of all

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that restoration, to see modern artists and their work. I

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believe the frescoes on the walls were stufing in.

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Speaker 2: All those little sideshcommend that now that it's finally opened

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them saying it. I think you if you go to

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Paris and you decide to visit, it's beautiful. I've said

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this for it.

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Speaker 1: Before, and I said it on this trip to Lorenzo

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that I'm I'm I'm not of the faith, not really anymore.

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I was raised Catholic, but I'm not a religious person.

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But I find touring churches in Europe far more gratifying than,

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for instance, touring we went to Versailles the last time

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we were in France, and I and you know, we

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went to various palaces and stuff like that. But you

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go to palaces, or you go and you look at

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crown jewels or whatever. This is why I was a

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little flipping about the Louver robbery and all I all

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I can say is a history of exploitation, a history

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of of inequality, and the fact that people were living

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and dying in the mud while queens were wearing these

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massive gems on their heads. I don't disregard it. I

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want to be exposed to that part of history. But

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you know, you feel that sense of exploitation, And of

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course you go into a cathedral or an old church,

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and yeah, I mean the church has I'm not here

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to but to the people who went to that church,

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to the people in that community over hundreds and hundreds

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of years, that building actually meant something. And to them

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it didn't mean I'm being exploited. It meant I'm touching

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the face of God. I a lonely person, am able

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to sit here and look at the face of God.

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And to me, those places are more beautiful, more poignant.

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I tend to think of not the kings and queens,

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not the cardinals and priests, but the peasants that were

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allowed to sit in the back, you know, or actually

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stand in the back. They weren't even allowed to sit.

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So I enjoy going to old churches for that reason.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we posted a bunch of pictures and

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people were asking, did you guys go inside the loop? No,

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we didn't. What happened was we decided to walk along,

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you know, walk and uh. That started around the Plus

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de la Concord and then Ms Del and then we

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end up walking through the tula He Gardens and ended

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up you know, at the.

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Speaker 1: Loop at the Loo and just walked around. But we

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didn't walk around, but we.

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Speaker 2: Didn't go in. We just took pictures outside. Yeah, it

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was crazy, was busy, and and you know, like we

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mentioned to our friend David, you need day to see

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the Louver.

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Speaker 1: And what we're planning on doing is Lorenzo's brother lives

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in Harlem and it's a fairly easy train ride to

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Paris from Harlem. So the next time we're at his

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brothers for an extended visit, I would want to put

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a side a day.

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Speaker 2: Right and and then just do that, take.

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Speaker 1: The train to Paris overnight and and spend a day

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and a half in the Louver seeing what we want

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to see.

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Speaker 2: But it was nice to visit some of the places

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we visit before.

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Speaker 1: Like the the I believe.

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Speaker 2: They were all beautiful and we were there the first

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time and it was just nice to walk around relax. Uh.

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We went to several restaurants and enjoyed all of them.

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Just sit there and have some coffee and just walk walk.

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I look for a hotel. The first time we stayed

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around the Luxembourg Garden, uh, and we didn't want to

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stay there again, so I was looking for a different hotel.

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And I'm you know, I wasn't looking for a view

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of the Eiffel Tower. I wasn't because they're usually expensive. Uh.

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The hotels are very expensive. They can get like very expensive.

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I was just like looking for a boutique hotel because

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we tend to like small hotels. So I found this hotel.

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It's called Liza they Fell, which is the gardens of

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the the Eiffel. Very small hotel, not expensive at all,

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and you can choose a room with a view, and

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I did because we booked the hotel a long time ago,

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so I did. I was not expecting to be a

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fantastic view.

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Speaker 1: My god, I mean the Eiffel Tower was dead center,

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and I did. We did take pictures, and the pictures

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don't deal with justice, no, because when you're looking at

355
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it it's right next to you, it looks really far

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away in pictures but it's so large, it's like having

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the Statue of Liberty right outside your hotel window.

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Speaker 2: So it was like you would get up and the

359
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tower was right there. In the morning, it.

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Speaker 1: Was not wrinkling all night on the hour.

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Speaker 2: It was an incredible experience. I highly recommend not an

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expensive hotel. People were very friendly, The staff was wonderful.

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They helped us a lot.

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Speaker 1: Take Lorenzo speaks French. But I have to say, as

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opposed to when we went there a long time ago,

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it's not that hard to get by you. There are

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a lot of shopkeepers and hotel people who will speak

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English to you.

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Speaker 2: I noticed that if you I know, first thing I

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noticed is that a lot more people are speaking English

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or are willing to speak English to you. I guess

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if you were tourists, they you know, even when you

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started in French, they switch to English, which is fine

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by me. Germans do the same. And although I speak

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German really well, but you start with German and they

376
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switch to English. French people do the same, which is

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fine by me. But they were very friendly, very nice.

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And you know, I follow someone on TikTok and people

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tend to say, you know, French people are rude. Maybe

380
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they were more rude than now. I don't know. I'm

381
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talking about my experience, but also in my experience, I

382
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,440
never had someone to be very very rude. I think

383
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because I follow someone on TikTok, I forget her name.

384
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I'm so sorry I forget her name. She's very funny.

385
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She's American from Brooklyn. She lives in France, and she

386
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has a TikTok account, and she talked about Paris and

387
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,039
she says that, you know, you have to do the

388
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French sandwich. You start with bon jous and you end

389
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with Mercy. You can insert the English in the in between,

390
00:20:01,799 --> 00:20:04,839
that's exactly, but you have to start with with you know,

391
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,480
bonjous and then ends with Missy. And even if you

392
00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:10,160
can of wha, because they say what to you. So

393
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,000
if you do that, I think, you know, things go

394
00:20:13,079 --> 00:20:17,000
a lot more easier. I think, uh, And that's what happened.

395
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Most of the time I feel about the language and

396
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about meaning French people in person.

397
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Speaker 1: But it was a lovely time fall We picked up

398
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:28,160
great week.

399
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Speaker 2: Yeah beautiful. Really hit Paris.

400
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Speaker 1: Hard the week we were there, and all the leaves

401
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,839
were falling all over us, and it was very colorful

402
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,000
and just lovely, just so we once in a while

403
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,279
we'd stop and say, what about this place, sit and

404
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,039
have an espresso, or just order a glass of wine

405
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whatever its parents.

406
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Speaker 2: Of course you're gonna do that. It depends on what

407
00:20:46,079 --> 00:20:48,279
you're looking for. First time we went in July August,

408
00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:50,720
I can't remember, and it was very sunny and bright

409
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and hot. I was looking at the old pictures and

410
00:20:53,279 --> 00:20:56,240
and the soccer care for example, looks very very bright

411
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and sunny. Now the pictures now they look, you know,

412
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gloomy and full, which is fine because we like that too.

413
00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:07,799
But it was a wonderful trip, really really, I mean,

414
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,640
you know, it's funny. I forgot how much I love Paris.

415
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,599
It's it's, you know, say what you want. It's such

416
00:21:12,599 --> 00:21:15,240
a cliche to say this. It's such a pretty city

417
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:20,000
that it just is. There's so much history, there's there's

418
00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:22,200
so much you feel so much. There's such a great

419
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vibe I feel. Yeah.

420
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,559
Speaker 1: We saw the tomb of Napoleon again under the Domets unbelieved,

421
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which it's not my culture, but it's really grow to

422
00:21:32,839 --> 00:21:34,720
I mean, I'm glad I went. But the whole building

423
00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:39,920
is grotesque on the inside, but you know, it's also beautiful,

424
00:21:40,039 --> 00:21:43,279
but it is. Yeah, and also at the concierge, Arie

425
00:21:43,319 --> 00:21:46,000
like there's a gift there where they're selling little Marie

426
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:52,119
Antoinette Christmas ornaments and they're really cute, and Lorenzo held

427
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,119
one up and I was like, okay, this is where

428
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,000
they beheadedor you know, like this is really what you

429
00:21:58,039 --> 00:22:03,480
want from here. But they have, like, pardon me, her

430
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,680
whole cell where she was kept, and it's it's essentially

431
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,920
a chapel in her honor. At this point, it is

432
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,880
again not my culture, not my history, but it's very

433
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,279
weird to be in there where this okay, well she

434
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,599
was tortured and her life was horrible and then she

435
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,359
was marched out of this cell and they cut her

436
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,400
head off, but you turned it into this very very

437
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:23,920
pretty room and tribute to her.

438
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:25,759
Speaker 2: But of course, and it's not just her, all the

439
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:29,880
women at the time revolutionary, you know, and that ended.

440
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,839
Speaker 1: So you get it's so boring to visit there because

441
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:39,559
it actually is pretty the building itself, that little courtyard

442
00:22:39,559 --> 00:22:41,559
where all the female prisoners were kept.

443
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Speaker 2: It's pretty talked about this.

444
00:22:44,599 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 1: You know, we also went to kill Maine and jail

445
00:22:46,279 --> 00:22:48,599
in Dublin, which also has a long and brutal history

446
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,039
to it. And I don't think they prettified kill Maine in.

447
00:22:53,039 --> 00:22:53,559
Speaker 2: But it is.

448
00:22:54,319 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: It is spotlessly clean and well painted, and let's face it,

449
00:22:58,039 --> 00:23:00,279
that's not what it was like for the prisoner's back, right,

450
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,039
So so you know, yeah, prettified prisons.

451
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 2: Now, we wanted to do a nice restaurant and uh,

452
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,480
and I thought about something that we have posted on

453
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,839
on the on our site as a lounge. So I

454
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,640
thought about the The Blue Train, which is a fantastic,

455
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,920
gorgeous museum restaurant looks like a museum. Uh. And I

456
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,480
thought about it, but it's a little too touristy, uh

457
00:23:23,519 --> 00:23:26,200
and too much sometimes I feel like when I look

458
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,880
at the picture. But that was option number one. Number

459
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:35,359
two was the which is a very traditional Parisian like

460
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,960
kind of like a brasserie slash Broth place, and I

461
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,279
post I have posted the pictures of the twice on

462
00:23:44,319 --> 00:23:46,440
the site because I loved the place so much. And

463
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,599
then the last time I posted was a Monday, the

464
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,119
day we we flew to Parrots, and Nicholas commented and

465
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,519
he said, oh, you guys should go there at least

466
00:23:54,559 --> 00:23:56,359
just to see it even if you don't eat there.

467
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,279
So we decided to go. My god, let me tell

468
00:24:00,319 --> 00:24:04,720
you guys, Oh my god, what a place. Yeah. It's beautiful, stunny,

469
00:24:05,039 --> 00:24:13,960
stundying side, absolutely gorgeous. This beautiful, uh decor inside just incredible, incredible. Uh.

470
00:24:14,039 --> 00:24:17,759
I posted pictures on Instagram. I mean it's just insane.

471
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,680
Is that the tan sah and ma. Uh, it's like

472
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,359
this area. You can tell that the rest's been there

473
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,799
for a long time because it's not I wouldn't say

474
00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:27,319
it's not a nice area, but it's more like a

475
00:24:27,319 --> 00:24:33,720
commercial area but beautiful inside. The food was incredible and uh,

476
00:24:34,079 --> 00:24:36,880
I am shocked. It was not expensive at all. But

477
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,319
apparently the restn has this policy of like, you know,

478
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,799
good food and cheap food, you know, inexpensive food, and

479
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,119
it was. It was not expensive at all. Uh, and

480
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:52,640
just the most amazing restaurning experience. I highly highly recommend it.

481
00:24:52,759 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: Yes, and I believe that's it.

482
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 2: For reasons I can't. I can't. I can't wait to

483
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,039
go back. Really, I mean, I I think, yeah, it's

484
00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:03,480
funny because sometimes I was like, oh, Perrys, you know

485
00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:05,759
everybody talks about Perry's. But yeah, that's the reason why

486
00:25:05,839 --> 00:25:08,400
everybody talked about parent It is a fantastic place.

487
00:25:08,519 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: It is really Tela recommended. All right, we'll be right

488
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,440
back and we're going to launch into We have much

489
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,880
to discuss this week. We are back. Oh my goodness,

490
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,000
we have so much. Well, first off, we're back forty

491
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,119
minutes later because as soon as we went on a break,

492
00:25:23,319 --> 00:25:26,119
I know, the very hot men with jackhammers outside of

493
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,200
our window started using their jackhammer.

494
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 2: But they're done.

495
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: And now that we've bored you with our vacation snaps,

496
00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:38,319
we have a lot to cover this week, which is

497
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,400
good because we feel like we've let you down. We

498
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,640
have not been putting out weekly podcasts over the last month,

499
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,759
so it's a heavy one this month.

500
00:25:46,839 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 2: So strap yourselves in.

501
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,079
Speaker 1: You might want to take breaks, and you might be

502
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,799
listening to this over more than one session. But we

503
00:25:54,839 --> 00:25:57,839
want to talk about several television shows. All's Fair with

504
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,640
Kim Kardashian, but trust we will not be too much

505
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:07,000
about that Death by Lightning ploribus on Apple TV. And

506
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,559
we're also going to talk about Gierma del Toros Frankenstein,

507
00:26:11,599 --> 00:26:17,240
which debuted on Netflix this week. Uh, when it comes

508
00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:20,599
to this, I don't know Ploribus. Yes, there will be

509
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,720
spoilers in that. Death by Lightning is a historical drama,

510
00:26:23,839 --> 00:26:27,680
so Andrew James Garfield dies at the end. It's it's

511
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,559
about the assassination of a president. So I mean, sure

512
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,960
there will be spoilers, but it's not the kind of

513
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,880
series where you should have to worry about spoilers. Same

514
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,319
with Frankenstein. We're just going to dive into that movie.

515
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 2: Again.

516
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: What are the spoilers in terms of who dies in

517
00:26:42,279 --> 00:26:44,240
the movie. Maybe I'll leave that part out. You have

518
00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:47,359
to assume some people are dying. Uh, But I'm just

519
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,720
giving you warning that we're going to do deep dives

520
00:26:49,759 --> 00:26:53,119
into these. There's probably not going to be much of

521
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,839
a spoiler warning on anything except for Ploribus, because I

522
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,039
do think that one if you and we're gonna wait until.

523
00:26:59,799 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 2: The Yeah, I mean it hinges in one thing.

524
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: But I am going to do it, and I'll give

525
00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:09,440
people warning. Pluribus on Apple TV. We're going to debate this.

526
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:10,920
I don't think Lorenzo likes it.

527
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 2: I loved it.

528
00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 1: We'll get into why the critics love it. So you're

529
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:15,119
absolutely wrong.

530
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 2: Oh no, they're wrong. I'm always right.

531
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: Now, but it is it does hinge on a major twist.

532
00:27:23,079 --> 00:27:25,839
Having said that, the twist is revealed in the first episode,

533
00:27:26,599 --> 00:27:29,839
So if you don't want to know, I'll give you

534
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:34,160
warning and you can skip past ploribus. However, before we

535
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,240
get into any of that, I did want to give

536
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,720
kittens who care about what's going on in Telow's life

537
00:27:39,759 --> 00:27:42,200
a little update about something we've been working on from

538
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:43,839
quite some time.

539
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:44,799
Speaker 2: We're having a baby.

540
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: We're not having a baby, although it feels like it.

541
00:27:49,559 --> 00:27:55,079
But if you've wondered, for instance, why we haven't talked

542
00:27:55,079 --> 00:28:00,440
about writing any more books after the success of Legendary Children, understand.

543
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,279
Speaker 2: To write non.

544
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: Fiction culture based books in twenty twenty five requires quite

545
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,960
the hook, quite the pitch, and quite a lot of

546
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,799
work to get it done. We have been for the

547
00:28:15,799 --> 00:28:21,440
past several years, I mean since twenty twenty two. Yeah,

548
00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:24,759
the past several years we've spent you know, Legendary Children

549
00:28:24,799 --> 00:28:28,039
came out and our agent, Monica asked us not long

550
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,279
after that came out, did we have any ideas for

551
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,359
other books? And we did, but because of COVID and

552
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,599
all that, we really felt we weren't going to push

553
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,400
for the next book. Because we really felt that we

554
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,039
needed to do everything we could to promote legendary children

555
00:28:43,079 --> 00:28:46,000
because our book tour had been cut short and so on.

556
00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:48,559
So we spent two years completely focused on legendary children.

557
00:28:48,559 --> 00:28:51,319
And then since twenty twenty two we have been working

558
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,480
back and forth on two different proposals, both of which

559
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,279
I feel have tremendous potential. But when it comes to

560
00:28:59,319 --> 00:29:01,720
these proposals, they have got to be molded in such

561
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,559
a way that an editor will look at them and say, yes,

562
00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:06,640
there's an audience for this book. So that's where we are,

563
00:29:06,759 --> 00:29:10,079
that's where we have been. And at the same time,

564
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,599
the publishing industry is rapidly changing. It's getting more and

565
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,200
more difficult to get things like nonfiction pop culture books sold.

566
00:29:20,799 --> 00:29:23,720
There's a huge contracting in the publishing world right now,

567
00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:25,720
where they're just not handing out a lot of money,

568
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,440
not handing out a lot of contracts. There's a reason

569
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,400
I'm telling all this just to satisfy any curiosity. One

570
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,400
of the book proposals, I don't mind telling you all this.

571
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,880
One of the book proposals centers around an examination of

572
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,079
movie costumes that we have been working on for quite

573
00:29:41,079 --> 00:29:43,000
some time. And if you're a teloap fan. That probably

574
00:29:43,039 --> 00:29:45,119
excites you a lot, and that's going to happen. That's

575
00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:47,640
going to happen, But it's very much about pitching it,

576
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,079
finding the right hook. And we have been caressing this

577
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,079
proposal for many, many years, and we'll see where that goes.

578
00:29:55,279 --> 00:29:59,119
The other one that we are very very excited about

579
00:30:00,279 --> 00:30:02,680
is that we and this will be a huge if

580
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,480
we can pull this off, it'll be an enormous career.

581
00:30:06,599 --> 00:30:08,960
Coup I think for the two of us is that

582
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,759
we are working on a biography. Actually, if you have

583
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,960
been listening to this podcast for any length of time,

584
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,480
you may remember that a couple of years back, we

585
00:30:18,519 --> 00:30:21,480
did a podcast. We devoted part of a podcast to

586
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:27,799
a legendary drag queen trans woman named Harlow who had

587
00:30:27,839 --> 00:30:31,920
a very interesting career here in Philadelphia. She was introduced

588
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,759
to the world in the seminal nineteen sixty eight documentary

589
00:30:35,799 --> 00:30:39,200
The Queen. We mentioned her in a book or mentioned

590
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,680
in our book in The Queen. She is the blonde

591
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,799
beauty queen who Crystal of Beijia tears into for winning

592
00:30:46,839 --> 00:30:47,359
the pageant.

593
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:48,119
Speaker 2: That's Harlow.

594
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: Harlow went on and we devoted the podcast over several

595
00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:55,799
years back without knowing her. Harlowe was kind of living

596
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,480
in seclusion, but she was living a private life. No

597
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,240
one knew where she was. And we did a podcast

598
00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:07,160
several years back talking about our our understanding of her,

599
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,640
how much we admired her, how much we were fascinated

600
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:15,119
by her story. Real short after, I mean spoiler, we're

601
00:31:15,119 --> 00:31:17,599
working on Harlow's biography. We finally tracked her down. We

602
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,720
finally tracked Rachel Harlowe down, and for the last two

603
00:31:19,799 --> 00:31:22,920
years we have conducted about sixty hours worth of interviews

604
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:29,759
with this woman. And she has a fascinating, fascinating life.

605
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,519
She was a South Philly teenager who got snatched up

606
00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:36,839
into the drag world. She was assigned Mail at birth.

607
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:42,279
She had a male name, and she was winsomely beautiful.

608
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:46,960
She was very, very feminine, very beautiful in the mode

609
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,839
of the late nineteen sixties, blonde, blue eyed, thin. She

610
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,680
actually resembled Twiggy and Sharon Tate. There was sort of

611
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,039
a blending there, and she got snatched up. She went

612
00:31:58,079 --> 00:32:00,000
to New York. She won the pageant in the Queen,

613
00:32:00,279 --> 00:32:03,559
and the producers of The Queen were so taken by

614
00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:06,599
her that they sent her to promote the film at

615
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,920
the Can Film Festival when it was entered into consideration

616
00:32:11,119 --> 00:32:14,440
at the Can Film Festival, because she won well, because

617
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,960
she won it, because because she was, by the standards

618
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,599
of the day, the most feminine, the one who most

619
00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:26,319
could quote unquote pass and so she made a great,

620
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,720
you know, image for the producers to promote. And I mean,

621
00:32:30,759 --> 00:32:33,599
let's face it, it's nineteen sixty eight. They probably weren't

622
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,680
going to book Crystal Lebajor or any of the black

623
00:32:35,759 --> 00:32:38,160
queens on the posters. They were going to put the blonde,

624
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:42,599
blue eyed, pretty queen. Although Crystal was gorgeous, so they

625
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,319
sent Rachel. They sent Harlowe to cann to the Can

626
00:32:45,319 --> 00:32:49,720
Film Festival, where she dined with True mcapode and Orson

627
00:32:49,759 --> 00:32:52,160
Wells and True mccapody later wrote about her and his

628
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,960
book Answered Prayers, naming her one of the twentieth most beauty,

629
00:32:55,039 --> 00:32:58,519
one of the most beautiful women of the twentieth century.

630
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,039
He was enraptured by her. Andy Warhol wasn't raptured by her.

631
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,119
David Bowie named her in an Interview Magazine interview as

632
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,440
one of the inspirations for his androgeny period. After Can,

633
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:12,920
she danced with Sharon Tate at the can Film Festival.

634
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,920
She became friends with Sharon. After that, they she traveled

635
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,720
to London and then she went to Hollywood. She lived

636
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,720
in Hollywood for a year auditioning. Now again she's still

637
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:27,720
perceived as Mail. Through all of this, she is passing

638
00:33:27,759 --> 00:33:30,599
as a woman, but she had not transitioned yet, and

639
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,200
she was still going by a male name. But even so,

640
00:33:34,359 --> 00:33:36,720
Hollywood was so fascinated by her that she was being

641
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,640
given auditions, she was meeting with people. She eventually did

642
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,799
do a film called A Safe Place in nineteen seventy

643
00:33:43,839 --> 00:33:50,680
one with starring Jack Nicholson and Orson Wells and Tuesday World,

644
00:33:50,839 --> 00:33:54,119
and she actually shared pictures of us back stage at

645
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,920
the world premiere. It's her and Jack Nicholson canoodling on

646
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,319
a couch together. And again she was going by at

647
00:34:00,319 --> 00:34:03,519
this time, even though she pas this FEMA. Sharon Tay

648
00:34:03,559 --> 00:34:08,719
got murdered and Harlowe had been at her house at

649
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,079
a party only like a week before, and she found

650
00:34:11,119 --> 00:34:15,440
that so jarring and so upsetting that she immediately skipped down.

651
00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:18,639
She left Hollywood, immediately, left all of those of those

652
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,519
opportunities behind her. I'm giving you the very briefest version

653
00:34:23,559 --> 00:34:26,880
of her life in Philadelphia, she opened a discotheque at

654
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,440
the first one in Philadelphia in nineteen seventy two, Harlowe's.

655
00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:33,039
She became a queen of nightlife. People from all over

656
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:37,719
the country. Celebrities would come, Mick Jagger came, Trim Capodi Halston.

657
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,519
They used to come to her nightclub. And then she

658
00:34:40,599 --> 00:34:43,840
became famous a second time because she entered into a

659
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,760
very public relationship with Jack Kelly, who was Grace Kelly,

660
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,719
Princess Grace's brother, and a local city councilman, and it

661
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:54,440
made all the papers, and she met Grace Kelly. I mean,

662
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:57,760
there's a lot. I'm leaving so much out of this

663
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,960
story because you know, we're trying to write a book,

664
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:08,400
but it's difficult to convince New York editors, for instance,

665
00:35:08,519 --> 00:35:12,400
that a story about this legendary trans woman from Philadelphia

666
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,679
is worth a book. And that is where we are

667
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,519
at the moment, is where we're trying to craft this

668
00:35:16,599 --> 00:35:18,519
book in the correct way so that we can get

669
00:35:18,519 --> 00:35:23,079
the correct offer for it. To that end, we were

670
00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:26,000
approached by an editor at the Philadelphia Inquirer over the

671
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,320
summer who had known that we had some interest in Harlow,

672
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,840
but didn't know that we were actually working with her

673
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,679
at this time. And this editor who we had briefly

674
00:35:34,679 --> 00:35:37,039
worked with before, had said, listen, I know you were

675
00:35:37,039 --> 00:35:39,480
interested in doing something about Harlow. Are you interested in

676
00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:42,719
coming back to that? And like I said, we're at

677
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,000
a moment where we're trying to convince people that this

678
00:35:45,119 --> 00:35:47,199
is a story we're telling. And part of the problem

679
00:35:47,199 --> 00:35:49,599
with Rachel Harlowe's story is that it all occurred in

680
00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:52,840
the seventies and eighties, and then, for reasons that will

681
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:56,440
be clearer in the book, around nineteen ninety she walked

682
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,559
away from public life completely and she entered a life

683
00:35:59,639 --> 00:36:03,639
of and nobody knew where she was. And because of

684
00:36:03,679 --> 00:36:07,960
the timing there, I mean, when in her heyday in

685
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,679
the seventies and eighties, there were hundreds and hundreds of

686
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,159
articles written about Harlow. They were and not just in

687
00:36:14,199 --> 00:36:16,719
local newspapers. She was in the New York Times, in

688
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:21,000
Rolling Stone, in Allure magazine, in Interview magazine. But most

689
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,800
of that stuff did not make it to the internet.

690
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,880
Articles that old are not easily searched on the internet.

691
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,920
So if you were to do a Rachel Harlow Google search,

692
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,000
you find almost nothing like our podcast about her is

693
00:36:32,119 --> 00:36:34,559
I think still on the first page of search results.

694
00:36:34,559 --> 00:36:39,360
There's just not a lot. She's this elusive legendary figure.

695
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,280
Drag queens know all about her. That people know about Harlow,

696
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,039
she's legendary. Trans women, especially trans women of a certain age,

697
00:36:47,639 --> 00:36:50,239
have always talked about her as an inspiration because she

698
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,400
was a very very public trans woman in the nineteen seventies,

699
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:55,400
and at.

700
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,519
Speaker 2: Some point Harlow Rachel Hollow helped a lot of women,

701
00:36:59,159 --> 00:37:01,840
helped them through their own transition. There's a lot. There's

702
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:02,519
a lot there.

703
00:37:02,599 --> 00:37:04,599
Speaker 1: She had a very painful childhood that we're not getting

704
00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:08,840
into here. So anyway, long story short, We've been working

705
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,000
since July with The Inquirer on this feature article, which

706
00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:16,400
has exploded. It's gotten much bigger than we originally than

707
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:17,800
the editor originally.

708
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 2: Planned for it. But I.

709
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: Was very excited when this opportunity came because I said,

710
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:23,920
you know, we're going to be able to put Rachel

711
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,320
back on the internet, and if we do it right,

712
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,800
it'll be comprehensive. So I really pitched to the inquire

713
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,000
two things I pitched to them. One is that the

714
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,679
Inquirer covered her extensively, nearly on a weekly basis. Through

715
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,239
the seventies. She was constantly being covered. And I had

716
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,800
all of those references. I had gone into archives, I

717
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,920
had paid to go into archives to find all of

718
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,639
these stories. And I said to the editor, we should

719
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,519
we should use those clips because first off, it really

720
00:37:50,559 --> 00:37:53,440
illustrates how she was written about at the time, and

721
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,920
that she was written about period and that and yes,

722
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,280
and it also makes the inquir kind of look good

723
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,320
because most of the covers back and was not problematic,

724
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,039
not even by modern standards. She really was elevated as

725
00:38:05,039 --> 00:38:08,639
a leading light of the city. Her gender confirmation surgery

726
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,119
was covered in the papers. This was in like nineteen

727
00:38:11,199 --> 00:38:15,159
seventy two. So the Inquirer agreed they and they loved

728
00:38:15,199 --> 00:38:18,119
the idea. And then they asked for photos because I

729
00:38:18,159 --> 00:38:20,679
had all of these pictures that of her that had

730
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,239
appeared in the Inquiry. So I gave them all these references.

731
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,880
And it looks like they're running a whole package. It

732
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,280
should run around November twenty second. That's the last I

733
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,440
heard from the editor. We have meetings ahead of us,

734
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,400
and I know Lorenzo, and I said to the Inquirer

735
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,800
that we would be available to do like social media

736
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,599
videos to promote this. Our goal is to get Rachel's

737
00:38:40,599 --> 00:38:43,239
story told and out there so that when we are

738
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,360
shopping around this proposal, we can point to this.

739
00:38:46,519 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 2: Here. Here she is in a nutshell. It's a great

740
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,400
way to get started. It's out there. It's going to

741
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,559
be available for everybody. Yeah, and you can read the

742
00:38:53,639 --> 00:38:56,199
article and then you know, read the book later cited

743
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:57,519
about it. We're very excited.

744
00:38:57,519 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: This has consumed us for over two years now. It's

745
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,079
there's our site and then there's this. And there are

746
00:39:07,119 --> 00:39:10,039
times when this has overwhelmed even the site or the podcast.

747
00:39:10,119 --> 00:39:12,519
And I've said it before to Lorenzo, there are times

748
00:39:12,519 --> 00:39:15,039
when I She's the first person I think of when

749
00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:16,480
I wake up in the morning, and she's the last

750
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,360
person I think of when I go to bed. Rachel

751
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,880
and I and us we talk on the phone almost

752
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,159
every week. It has been an honor to meet her.

753
00:39:25,199 --> 00:39:28,599
She's seventy eight years old now. She's as filly as

754
00:39:28,599 --> 00:39:31,159
a tasty cake, but she's classy. She has so many

755
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,519
stories to tell, Like she'd just be talking and then

756
00:39:33,559 --> 00:39:36,119
she'll talk about the time she ran into Andy Warhol

757
00:39:36,159 --> 00:39:38,400
at Maxis Kansas City, you know, stuff like that.

758
00:39:38,639 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 2: And this is a very person an interesting experience because

759
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,599
you know, there's the whole story about you when you

760
00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:45,480
were a kid that you.

761
00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: Yes, i've told this story before. I think I might

762
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,719
have told it, which is a lovely story. But my

763
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,880
first exposure to Harlowe was I saw her. I was

764
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,840
a kid, I couldn't have been more than ten years old,

765
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,079
and I saw a picture of her in the local

766
00:39:58,119 --> 00:40:01,760
paper and I stopped and looked at it because she

767
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,199
was so beautiful and so glamorous. So I was like, oh,

768
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,519
is that beautiful, glamorous woman. I was a little baby, gay,

769
00:40:06,519 --> 00:40:10,199
of course, And then I read whatever description of her

770
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,800
was that, and I was shocked to find out that

771
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,960
a she lived in Philly, because I should assume she

772
00:40:16,039 --> 00:40:18,960
was some Hollywood star or some New York star, which

773
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,079
to me was like, why why is she in Philly?

774
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,480
And then the second thing that obviously this is what's

775
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,480
stuck in my head, is that she was described in

776
00:40:25,519 --> 00:40:27,239
the manner of the day as a boy in address,

777
00:40:28,159 --> 00:40:31,719
and that rocked my world. At ten, I just couldn't

778
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,920
even comprehend that that was boy. She wasn't at that point.

779
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,920
She was you know, and she was never a boy

780
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:42,440
in address, obviously by modern understanding. But I couldn't process

781
00:40:42,519 --> 00:40:45,480
what that meant. I couldn't articulate what that meant. But

782
00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:48,440
as I told Rachel years later, when I finally met her,

783
00:40:49,039 --> 00:40:51,199
I said, that was the moment that I realized there

784
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,840
was some other kind of life out there, right other

785
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,760
than and you know, if you're a gay, if you're

786
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:02,480
a queer kid, period, trans, gay, whatever, non binary, you're

787
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:08,119
you long before you understand what you are, you understand

788
00:41:08,119 --> 00:41:10,480
that there's something quote unquote wrong with you. Right, we

789
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:13,079
all get that is the one commonality that all queer

790
00:41:13,079 --> 00:41:15,079
people have is that there is that moment in their

791
00:41:15,159 --> 00:41:17,199
childhood where they're like, what's wrong with me? Why am

792
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,239
I not like my peers? And so I didn't know

793
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:21,920
what I was at that point, and I didn't know

794
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,400
what I was after reading that, but I did know

795
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,280
that whatever she represented, I think that was. I understood

796
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,599
that as that that's the direction I'm supposed to go in.

797
00:41:30,679 --> 00:41:33,280
And it wasn't confusing to me. It wasn't like, oh,

798
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,880
I'm supposed to start wear wearing dresses or anything like that.

799
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,960
That's not what it was. It was simply whatever you

800
00:41:39,039 --> 00:41:42,119
think you know about the world, there is there's a

801
00:41:42,159 --> 00:41:44,079
lot more out there. There is a whole lot more out

802
00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:45,800
there with people like that exists.

803
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 2: And that's why representation means so much, because when you

804
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,920
see yourself out there, then you understand that it's it's

805
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,199
okay to beat you right, right, and it's not going

806
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,400
to be easy, but it's okay. You know, it's not

807
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,480
an om, you know, and something normal to the point

808
00:42:02,519 --> 00:42:04,840
that you know you shouldn't exist. I should. I'm sorry,

809
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,440
go ahead, No, that's it. I mean, that's why it's important.

810
00:42:07,519 --> 00:42:10,119
Speaker 1: I should also mention that Rachel's story has been picked

811
00:42:10,199 --> 00:42:13,639
up an option for a movie. Right, we have nothing

812
00:42:13,639 --> 00:42:17,360
to do with this movie, but there's a script, there

813
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:22,000
is a director, and there is a producer. The producer

814
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:24,679
is Christine Baschan, who is you know, an OSCAR nominated

815
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,840
producer who I can't even begin to list. She did

816
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,400
Boys Don't Cry, and on and on and on.

817
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 2: So there's a lot. There's a lot about Rachel going

818
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,880
on right now, about to explode, and then we're part

819
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:36,800
of it. We're part of it.

820
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: Yes, the movie is going to be about her relationship

821
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,039
with Jack Kelly, which was tumultuous and her. But the

822
00:42:44,079 --> 00:42:46,639
book that we've been working on is a more holistic take.

823
00:42:46,679 --> 00:42:48,880
We're looking at her childhood, We're looking at her parentage,

824
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,480
We're looking at her the various love affairs other than

825
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,760
Jack Kelly in her life. Anyway, that's what's going on

826
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,840
with us. That will be coming out before the end

827
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,760
of November. We will be extensively from voting it both

828
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,360
on our site and on our socials. I've already asked

829
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,840
Rachel if she would do a short podcast with us,

830
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,559
and she said she would, And I told her, I

831
00:43:08,599 --> 00:43:10,400
was like, let's just do light style. We'll talk about

832
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,679
you and talk about the celebrities. You know, Warren Batty

833
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,320
and Jack Nichole. She knew all these people back in

834
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,480
the sixties in Hollywood. Anyway, that's where we are. It's

835
00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:21,599
kind of nice to just get this off my chest

836
00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:23,360
because we have been working on this so much. I

837
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,639
don't people next question when we to say this is

838
00:43:26,639 --> 00:43:27,559
when's the book coming out?

839
00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:28,679
Speaker 2: There is no book.

840
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,039
Speaker 1: We still are in proposal stage. That's why these things

841
00:43:32,039 --> 00:43:32,960
take so long, right.

842
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 2: I mean, there is a book, but there's not a

843
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,920
date that well, there's no publisher. Yeah, I mean there's

844
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,480
the publishing world is so yeah.

845
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:43,599
Speaker 1: If you're an editor or publisher and you listen to us,

846
00:43:43,599 --> 00:43:46,440
and I know some of you, goddamn, do contact us

847
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,760
because we've got killer proposal for you. Anyway, The article's

848
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,400
coming out soon and I can't wait to share it

849
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:55,159
with you all. Now moving on, we let's move into

850
00:43:55,960 --> 00:44:03,800
pop culture and television with Kim Kardashian. And it doesn't

851
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,239
really matter who else is in it. Kim Kardashian, but yes,

852
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,119
Naomi watch Rotten Center, Glen Claus. She is front and

853
00:44:09,159 --> 00:44:11,079
center and the entire show, from what I can tell,

854
00:44:11,159 --> 00:44:13,760
is structured around her. I didn't want to do anything

855
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,960
with this show, but Lorenzo was like, why don't we

856
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:18,440
watch it and maybe we can make fun of it

857
00:44:18,519 --> 00:44:21,199
or something, and I was like, fine, okay, because.

858
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,559
Speaker 2: Everyone is talking about it. It's always it has.

859
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 1: A zero Rotten Tomatoes rating. It is the worst rated shit.

860
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. It's millions of people watching it, and

861
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:29,440
we'll get to that.

862
00:44:29,599 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 1: I think they're over selling how many people are watching it.

863
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,199
It broke a scripted record for Hulu, but Hulu doesn't

864
00:44:36,199 --> 00:44:42,119
have that many scripted originals anyway, so big deal. So

865
00:44:42,159 --> 00:44:44,639
we sat down last night and we were like, fine,

866
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,880
we'll watch it and we didn't even make it fifteen minutes.

867
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,159
I don't think it is really really bad. It's so

868
00:44:49,679 --> 00:44:51,360
awful that it's shockingly bad.

869
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: And the thing is that I went online because I

870
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,119
always go to you know, I always tried to find

871
00:44:56,159 --> 00:44:58,239
out what people were saying. And a lot of people,

872
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,679
because they're fans, they're fans, fans the fans, they will say,

873
00:45:01,679 --> 00:45:04,280
oh my god, it's funny. You know, it's not funny.

874
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,519
It's entertainment. We need entertainment right now, and you know

875
00:45:08,559 --> 00:45:09,320
it's just fun.

876
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,559
Speaker 1: There is no lack of entertainment out there. No, there's

877
00:45:12,599 --> 00:45:14,440
no lack. We're not entertainment.

878
00:45:14,519 --> 00:45:15,119
Speaker 2: What does that mean?

879
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,599
Speaker 1: Are you working in the mindshul day up?

880
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,519
Speaker 2: That is so true. Anyway, it's absolutely awful. And you

881
00:45:23,559 --> 00:45:25,360
can't even call it camp because if you do, O

882
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,079
be offended. It's not camp.

883
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: Everyone is smirking as if they're creating camp. They think

884
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,719
that's what they're doing. And this gets to the you know,

885
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,639
that's not how camp works. Camp is an inadvertent thing.

886
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,400
Camp is the people in Bob don't realize they're making camp.

887
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,559
Speaker 2: And it's always clever, it's always witty, and this is

888
00:45:44,679 --> 00:45:45,199
none of that.

889
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,119
Speaker 1: I'll just say this to no one's surprise, Kim Kardashian

890
00:45:49,159 --> 00:45:51,519
can't act her way out of the paperback. She can't

891
00:45:51,519 --> 00:45:54,519
even make it through more than three or four words

892
00:45:54,559 --> 00:45:59,360
at a time. Subsequently, the entire show is structured around that.

893
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:04,239
If you notice, nobody gives a long speech. There are

894
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,880
no like long periods of dialogue between each other. It's

895
00:46:09,199 --> 00:46:12,599
very common in the fifteen minutes that I saw for

896
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,199
three characters to complete a sentence. One will say one phrase,

897
00:46:16,199 --> 00:46:17,920
one will say the next phrase, and one will because

898
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,719
the Kardashian cannot complete a sentence. So every other actress

899
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,920
is just giving little quips surrounding her.

900
00:46:26,199 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 2: And I'm sorry, I'll still red hot.

901
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 1: I went into this thinking, oh my god, that's I

902
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:33,519
feel so bad for those actresses.

903
00:46:33,559 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: I do not. They all know what they're doing.

904
00:46:35,199 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: They all know that they are bringing their own talent

905
00:46:38,519 --> 00:46:41,920
down to her level, which means they're all giving these

906
00:46:42,039 --> 00:46:45,639
bizarrely juvenile line readings.

907
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,679
Speaker 2: The thing is that, first of all, it's so absurd.

908
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,119
The whole thing is that these women are lawyers and

909
00:46:51,159 --> 00:46:53,800
they're fed up with the men and the male lawyers

910
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,079
treating them like shit, and they decided to help women

911
00:46:58,199 --> 00:47:00,360
girl power, and then we're going to open an hour.

912
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:05,039
They open a new office. In one sentis Yeah, it's

913
00:47:05,079 --> 00:47:08,239
a five minute scene. They made the decision to move

914
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,480
to another office. And then two minutes later it's ten

915
00:47:11,559 --> 00:47:16,039
years later and they have their millionaires, private jets, successful,

916
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,840
very successful, and even the black person in it, it's

917
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,760
supposed to be the assistant whatever, but she's working. She's

918
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:24,559
trying to be a lawyer too, and we're going to

919
00:47:24,599 --> 00:47:30,920
give you the opportunity of Yet it's so horrible, and

920
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,440
they're all of course, Kim Kardish, she's married to a

921
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,480
is it a football player or something like that, with

922
00:47:37,559 --> 00:47:40,679
a lot of money, so her house is insane. They

923
00:47:41,119 --> 00:47:46,480
fly private jets, clothes are insane, jewelry everything, it's so olden.

924
00:47:46,559 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: There's a way to do that where it's fun. Yeah,

925
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,000
And there's nothing fun. There's no joy in this show.

926
00:47:53,119 --> 00:47:56,559
It's cynical. And I you know, we've gone upon this

927
00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:59,880
for a long time about Ryan Murphy, but part of

928
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:01,960
the reason I get so annoyed with him is because

929
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:07,239
we are roughly contemporaries, and you, I understand your obsessions

930
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,039
because I'm of the same generation as you. But if

931
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,199
all you can you're all obsessed with, like you know,

932
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:19,320
bitchy women and designer clothes and private jets, that's it.

933
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 2: You shallow.

934
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: That's so shallow, anything funny to say, anything interesting that

935
00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:27,440
you just want to show that stuff on screen and

936
00:48:27,559 --> 00:48:29,679
you think that's I don't.

937
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 2: Know, entertaining. I don't know. I guess for some.

938
00:48:31,679 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 1: People it is, but it is my numbingly stupid.

939
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 2: Listen, that's a gay man. I'm going to speak as

940
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:42,000
a gay man only I watched. I love old movies.

941
00:48:42,119 --> 00:48:46,519
I love glammer women and old icons and clothes and

942
00:48:46,599 --> 00:48:48,880
jewelry and all that. I think, you know, it's part

943
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,119
of me as a gay man. But I expect more

944
00:48:51,159 --> 00:48:54,679
than that of a show. You know. It's just way too.

945
00:48:54,639 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: Shallows, bitches and tight dresses. That's the entire show.

946
00:48:58,119 --> 00:49:02,079
Speaker 2: It's absolutely horrible, and it's sad to see all these women.

947
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,840
I'm not sad they picked, but you can see that

948
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,199
they're they're very, very patient throughout the whole thing because

949
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,840
they can't complain. I mean, they gotta. They said yes

950
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:16,679
to the job, and they're they're just it's it's absolutely horrible.

951
00:49:16,679 --> 00:49:19,039
And it's funny because I was when we did the

952
00:49:19,079 --> 00:49:21,159
Red Carpet. I was wondering, why is christ Janna on

953
00:49:21,159 --> 00:49:23,039
the red cover all the time. Now I know she's

954
00:49:23,199 --> 00:49:26,480
exactly a Producderr. That's why her daughter is there probably,

955
00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:30,039
and that's why she was on the red cover. So

956
00:49:30,159 --> 00:49:34,280
it's gross. It's a Kardashian you know, again, one more

957
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,440
thing that these women have to touch and they have

958
00:49:37,559 --> 00:49:40,920
to be part of. And it's really I mean, one

959
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:45,039
of the first scenes, her husband, uh forgets their anniversary

960
00:49:45,159 --> 00:49:48,079
or whatever, and then gives her jewelry and of course

961
00:49:48,119 --> 00:49:51,719
it's an Elizabeth Taylor a piece of jewelry, of course,

962
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,559
because it's Kim Kardashian. It's not a character, it's Kim Kardashian.

963
00:49:55,519 --> 00:49:57,400
It's just gross. The whole thing is gross. And I

964
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:58,559
go online, that's.

965
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 1: The diamond to Elizabeth Taylor, like that's our line reading.

966
00:50:03,519 --> 00:50:05,639
It's I think about no, I think we'd last at

967
00:50:05,679 --> 00:50:10,000
another minute after that, it's don't I don't like telling

968
00:50:10,039 --> 00:50:11,760
people don't watch the shut don't watch this shit.

969
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:16,079
Speaker 2: It's absolutely grotesque, it's offensive. I find it horrible and

970
00:50:16,119 --> 00:50:18,239
I don't understand. And you can say yeah, go ahead

971
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,599
and say it's entertainment. You know, it's fun, it's light.

972
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,559
We need this right now. Well, there are other things

973
00:50:23,559 --> 00:50:26,880
out there you can watch and still be light. And

974
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,280
you know it's just bad, bad, bad, It's Yeah. It

975
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,639
makes me so annoyed because it's again this family touching

976
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:41,159
everything and I don't understand what is behind supporting this.

977
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,159
I mean, come on, but at some point you have

978
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:46,559
to wake up and realize that these people have zero talent.

979
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,320
Speaker 1: And on that note, let's take a break and we'll

980
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,000
be back. I don't think we have more to say that. No,

981
00:50:52,119 --> 00:50:54,800
it was horrible, and we try, and we'll be back

982
00:50:55,280 --> 00:51:00,960
in a minute to talk about Death by Lightning. We're

983
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,119
back and we're done ranting about Kim Kardashian and now

984
00:51:03,119 --> 00:51:07,840
we're gonna praise Death by Lightning, the limited series that

985
00:51:08,039 --> 00:51:12,920
dropped on Netflix last week, surrounding and with dealing with

986
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:17,320
the election and then eventual assassination of President James Garfield

987
00:51:18,159 --> 00:51:19,320
in I think eighteen eighty.

988
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 2: I have to say I didn't know much about it.

989
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:22,920
I knew some about it, but I didn't know.

990
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,519
Speaker 1: Well, the Garfield is nobody knows anything about him. He

991
00:51:25,599 --> 00:51:28,480
was a forgotten He's one of those forgotten presidents, you know,

992
00:51:28,559 --> 00:51:32,400
post Lincoln, pre Theodore Roosevelt presidents. There's a whole stretch

993
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,920
of them there, and I think the series starts from

994
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:38,800
that assumption that you don't know who he is and

995
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,000
you don't know who is his story, that he was

996
00:51:41,039 --> 00:51:44,639
a forgotten member, you know, forgotten president.

997
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,679
Speaker 2: Incredible Cass, I mean, stacked.

998
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:51,559
Speaker 1: Cass, Matthew McFadden, Michael Shannon, Betty Gilpin, Shay Wigham, Bradley Whitberd,

999
00:51:51,639 --> 00:51:52,480
Nick Offerman.

1000
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,599
Speaker 2: It's just everybody doing their best.

1001
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:57,559
Speaker 1: It's an excellent, excellent series.

1002
00:51:57,679 --> 00:52:03,079
Speaker 2: I have a couple of critique, but the opening scene

1003
00:52:03,679 --> 00:52:09,880
it's insanely gorgeous, the cinematography and everything where he goes

1004
00:52:10,679 --> 00:52:13,480
and he gets pretty much elected, you know, nominated at

1005
00:52:13,559 --> 00:52:15,480
the convention. Yeah.

1006
00:52:15,519 --> 00:52:18,199
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's a beautiful you know, it's set in the

1007
00:52:18,199 --> 00:52:23,960
eighteen eighties. It's it's it's beautifully costumed. The production values

1008
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,199
are very very high, and there are you know, scenes

1009
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,400
where they would have had to use digital effects to

1010
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,000
create you know, a New York City street in eighteen

1011
00:52:34,039 --> 00:52:36,519
eighty or whatever, and most of it is most of

1012
00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:39,000
that stuff is pretty well done. The scene and the

1013
00:52:39,039 --> 00:52:42,800
Republican National Convention. It's insane that would have had to

1014
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,039
have been There's no way that was an actual location.

1015
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,519
And it was well done. It was actually really really

1016
00:52:48,559 --> 00:52:48,960
well done.

1017
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,599
Speaker 2: But to think that that what they had at the time,

1018
00:52:52,639 --> 00:52:55,159
it's just incredible. Yeah, absolutely beautiful.

1019
00:52:56,199 --> 00:53:00,599
Speaker 1: I all, I can I mean, I can say more,

1020
00:53:00,679 --> 00:53:03,920
but my main thing here is it's just recommended. It's

1021
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,360
everybody doing very very good work. One of the things

1022
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,719
that is appealing about it is that it's only four episodes.

1023
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,000
It's four hours long total, which is it's like an

1024
00:53:14,079 --> 00:53:18,119
old school mini series from like the nineteen eighties. And

1025
00:53:18,159 --> 00:53:22,639
that's fine, that's uh, that's great because you know, there's

1026
00:53:22,679 --> 00:53:25,679
so much Netflix bloat out there. There's so much stuff

1027
00:53:25,679 --> 00:53:28,480
that gets shoved into these shows to expand them, and

1028
00:53:28,559 --> 00:53:31,199
it was nice to see someone something short, someone take

1029
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,599
a more restrained approach. Having said that, I feel like

1030
00:53:33,639 --> 00:53:35,920
it glosses over a lot of things because of its

1031
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,960
short time, and I had I did, and I'm not

1032
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,480
going to get into it, but I did go and

1033
00:53:41,519 --> 00:53:45,320
look James Garfield up because I honestly wasn't clear on

1034
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,159
certain things and I was like, what's this part about?

1035
00:53:47,159 --> 00:53:48,119
What's this part about so.

1036
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 2: Played by Michael Shannon. You know, I went and.

1037
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: Looked up his history, which is great. I mean, that's

1038
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,639
a point in the show's favor that it inspired me

1039
00:53:55,679 --> 00:53:58,960
to go look up more about him. About Roscoe Conkling,

1040
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:04,679
Who'shay Wigham played. But the more you read, You're like, Okay, well,

1041
00:54:04,679 --> 00:54:07,119
why wasn't that in the movie? In the in the piece,

1042
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:10,320
why wasn't that You know, there were certain aspects of it,

1043
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,480
like Shay Wiggham's you know, Roscoe Conkling is having an

1044
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:17,280
affair with this the governor's wife, right, and it is

1045
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,000
a plot point. But I couldn't understand why we kept

1046
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,320
focusing on this and why we kept focusing on her.

1047
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:23,280
Speaker 2: It is based on a book.

1048
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,639
Speaker 1: Middleton plays the care and I'm like, why would you

1049
00:54:25,679 --> 00:54:27,719
cast Tuppence Middleton, who was you know, in the Dalton

1050
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:28,320
Appy movies.

1051
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 2: It is based on a book. I don't know if

1052
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,719
they were getting just sticking to the book, you know.

1053
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,559
Speaker 1: Well, no, they were pulling things out. I think my

1054
00:54:35,639 --> 00:54:39,159
point is with that, in that instance, there were long

1055
00:54:39,199 --> 00:54:41,960
standing rumors that President Garfield had an affair with the

1056
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,840
same woman. And if you know that, all of those

1057
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,000
scenes actually make more sense. There's a scene where that

1058
00:54:48,199 --> 00:54:52,039
where his wife meets her at the inauguration, and it's

1059
00:54:52,199 --> 00:54:57,519
very weird and oh yeah, right. He does say at

1060
00:54:57,519 --> 00:54:59,800
one point to his wife when she says he's such

1061
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:01,320
an you know, he's a good man, and he says

1062
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,000
something like, you of all people know, I'm not a

1063
00:55:03,039 --> 00:55:06,320
perfect man. So's they implied that they had had some

1064
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,079
marriage problems in the past. But this that was a

1065
00:55:09,119 --> 00:55:11,840
weird thing to keep out. I'm not gonna harp on that.

1066
00:55:12,159 --> 00:55:17,880
I'm just saying the story is very, very rich, but

1067
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,440
I think they did. I think they might have. I

1068
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,960
think it would have been a good idea to have

1069
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,800
another hour to it, to just give a little bit

1070
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,880
more explanation. It's all wheeling, dealing. It's all eighteen eighties

1071
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:35,159
machine politics, which is fascinating to watch because it's it

1072
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,760
illustrates both how different that world is from today, but

1073
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,679
also at the same time, so little has changed in

1074
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:47,760
American politics. Michael Shannon is a great actor. He is

1075
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,440
very well cast as Garfield. I have to say he

1076
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,400
looks fantastic. He should wear a full beard more often

1077
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,119
because it really frames his face well. But I did

1078
00:55:57,119 --> 00:55:59,320
feel that that character was a cipher. He was just

1079
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:03,360
this nearly perfect man who was who just sort of

1080
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,400
stumbled into the presidency. And that's the other thing that's

1081
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,639
overstated because, like in his writings later it found it,

1082
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,639
he gave that speech knowing full well that he was

1083
00:56:11,679 --> 00:56:12,880
gonna wind up getting nominated.

1084
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:13,079
Speaker 2: Right.

1085
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 1: He was ambitious, and the show presents him as this

1086
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:21,039
sort of like unambitious person who got shoved into the presidency. Anyway,

1087
00:56:21,119 --> 00:56:24,679
these are not criticisms. It is highly entertaining. It is

1088
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,880
surprisingly very very funny.

1089
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 2: It's t witty.

1090
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 1: It's I mean Nick Offerman, who honestly, oh, I wanted

1091
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,199
to get to this point. Michael Shannon is basically the

1092
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,119
lead character, but honestly, it's like Shay Wigham and Nick

1093
00:56:39,159 --> 00:56:42,039
Offferman's show from beginning to end. They are the ones.

1094
00:56:42,119 --> 00:56:44,679
And Nick Offerman, I really think deserves an Emmy nomination

1095
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:48,760
for this. He plays Chester Arthur, who was Garfield's vice

1096
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:50,960
president and then succeeded him as president. And I mean,

1097
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,280
the Kiston could not be more perfect. He looks just like.

1098
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:54,679
Speaker 2: Him, and he's hysterical.

1099
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: He's really funny.

1100
00:56:56,119 --> 00:56:56,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1101
00:56:57,039 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 1: The other one that absolutely deserves Awards consideration is Matthew

1102
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,079
McFadden who plays Charles Gattow, who is the man who

1103
00:57:04,119 --> 00:57:10,960
assassinates him, And you know, I don't know that. Excuse me,

1104
00:57:13,199 --> 00:57:16,320
I don't know that. I've seen an assassination story that

1105
00:57:16,559 --> 00:57:20,480
weights the assassin's tale as much as the victim's tale. So,

1106
00:57:20,559 --> 00:57:22,840
in other words, it's as much Charles Gato's story as

1107
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:24,400
it is James Barfield.

1108
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,639
Speaker 2: And I agree, and I think he does a fantastic

1109
00:57:26,719 --> 00:57:29,480
job going through everything that goes in his head at

1110
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,400
the time and why he got to that point. There's

1111
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:36,039
a lot there. It's sad, it's very sad, and it's.

1112
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: Maybe it is dark of me to say, because Charles

1113
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,320
Gattow was severely mentally unstable. He had a lot of

1114
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:45,719
mental health issues. But there are parts of that performance

1115
00:57:45,719 --> 00:57:47,519
that are actually funny. And I don't feel that he's

1116
00:57:47,559 --> 00:57:49,760
like making fun of the mentally ill so much as

1117
00:57:50,159 --> 00:57:53,360
the absurdity of that man's life, the constant running from

1118
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:57,000
the law, the constant lying and everything. There are times

1119
00:57:57,239 --> 00:58:00,800
Matthew McFadden is really good at playing these desperate losers. Yes,

1120
00:58:01,239 --> 00:58:03,320
which is funny because he looks like such a leading

1121
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,840
man to me. But the just the sadness in that

1122
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:10,920
portrayal that the desperation of that man to mean something

1123
00:58:11,519 --> 00:58:15,039
and his inability to mean anything because of his illness.

1124
00:58:15,079 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 2: I think that the most interesting thing about the show

1125
00:58:17,679 --> 00:58:20,519
is that, you know, it's that you go through life

1126
00:58:20,519 --> 00:58:23,320
and in one split of a second, you know everything

1127
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,440
changes for you, for your family, for everyone around you,

1128
00:58:26,519 --> 00:58:30,119
for the expectations around you, everything right, and then all

1129
00:58:30,119 --> 00:58:33,119
of a sudden, bullying's done. Nobody thinks about it anymore,

1130
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,599
or nobody even talked about it more or remembers right.

1131
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:37,719
And there's a I'm not going to give anything away,

1132
00:58:37,719 --> 00:58:42,159
but there's a scene with Betty Gildman Guilpi, the wife

1133
00:58:42,159 --> 00:58:46,239
and childs when she confounded to him and and and

1134
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:49,639
it's just amazing scene. It's a very good dialogue.

1135
00:58:50,519 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: And again Betty Gelpin is one of those people where

1136
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:54,719
you're like, why would she be kissed in this because

1137
00:58:54,719 --> 00:58:57,639
she had almost nothing to do. She was good, but

1138
00:58:57,679 --> 00:58:59,559
she had almost nothing to do. And then there's that scene.

1139
00:59:00,559 --> 00:59:03,599
Speaker 2: Okay, that's why you cass, Wow, that's why you're here now, Yeah, that's.

1140
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 1: Why you can Yeah.

1141
00:59:05,719 --> 00:59:08,719
Speaker 2: Uh it's touching. I was I said, I thought it

1142
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:12,679
was incredible but also very very depressing in a way.

1143
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 1: Because the man's life was cut shortened because of the

1144
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,840
circumstances of his assassination were so stupid.

1145
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 2: It was just everybody.

1146
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,719
Speaker 1: Involved was so dumb and the whole thing was so avoidable.

1147
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:26,679
And that's what's frustrating to watch it tries to spin

1148
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:31,400
a a story of meaning out of his presidency, and

1149
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,719
sometimes I think it's a little thin, Like he quote

1150
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:37,800
unquote broke the New York machine politics. That's that's basically

1151
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,719
what they're saying he did to sum up because it

1152
00:59:41,719 --> 00:59:43,159
was only president for like three months.

1153
00:59:44,039 --> 00:59:46,639
Speaker 2: But it's thin. Uh.

1154
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 1: My only other criticism is and it's a minor one,

1155
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,199
it's a nitpicky one. But I do pay attention to

1156
00:59:51,239 --> 00:59:56,000
costume design. And again I went because I didn't know

1157
00:59:56,039 --> 00:59:57,559
a lot of these people. I went and wound up

1158
00:59:57,559 --> 01:00:00,000
looking them up afterwards, reading their stories and everything.

1159
01:00:01,239 --> 01:00:02,199
Speaker 2: And I got a little.

1160
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:06,639
Speaker 1: Annoyed because Shaye Wagam's character, for instance, is Roscoe Conkling,

1161
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:11,519
this senator, he's this machine politician. He's apparently very corrupt.

1162
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,880
His costumes are beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

1163
01:00:16,239 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 2: Looking for him.

1164
01:00:17,079 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 1: Pictures of him, of Roscoe Conkling. Rosco Concoring was a

1165
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,199
very good looking man. He was known to be good looking.

1166
01:00:22,239 --> 01:00:24,320
He was a bodybuilder, which was strange for the time.

1167
01:00:24,719 --> 01:00:26,239
But if you look at the clothes he was wearing

1168
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,440
in all those pictures, that's I mean. You'll see this

1169
01:00:29,559 --> 01:00:35,239
sometimes on the guilded Age as well, and maybe to

1170
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:37,440
a certain extent on Doubt Navy. But no, I actually

1171
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:39,800
wouldn't say that's true on Dealt Navvy because everybody on

1172
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:45,039
those shows had valets and ladies maids that actually dressed them,

1173
01:00:45,039 --> 01:00:46,760
and their entire job was to make sure their clothes

1174
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,559
were impeccable. Someone like Roscoe Conkling, maybe he had a

1175
01:00:49,719 --> 01:00:54,920
la I don't know. My point is Shaye Wigem's he

1176
01:00:55,039 --> 01:00:59,400
was wearing like these unbelievably fitted jekrd waistcoats and these

1177
01:01:00,119 --> 01:01:04,000
old metallic ascot ties with a with like a gem

1178
01:01:04,079 --> 01:01:07,119
pin in this, I mean just dandyism upon dandyism. Everything

1179
01:01:07,199 --> 01:01:12,280
is exquisite, everything is fitted perfectly, everything of the highest quality.

1180
01:01:12,639 --> 01:01:15,440
And then you go look up up Roscoe Conkling pictures

1181
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:19,119
of him, and he's very presentable clothing, but nothing as

1182
01:01:19,159 --> 01:01:22,400
flashy as that, because honestly, a senator would not have

1183
01:01:22,519 --> 01:01:25,440
dressed that way back then, respectable men did not dress

1184
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:27,360
in flashy clothes and he was.

1185
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 2: Corrupt as he was.

1186
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: And I do think sometimes, like on the guilded Age,

1187
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:32,559
they take it too far.

1188
01:01:32,599 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 2: At the end of the.

1189
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 1: Day, those people were rich, but they still had to

1190
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:39,800
put their clothes on like. They were not dressed by

1191
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,599
a costume designer. They were not stitched into these outfits

1192
01:01:42,599 --> 01:01:44,320
the way costume design tends to do well.

1193
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 2: They did get the beer and the hair right, and

1194
01:01:47,079 --> 01:01:47,360
it does.

1195
01:01:47,519 --> 01:01:49,519
Speaker 1: Conkling, Yeah, he had that weird haircut.

1196
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:51,599
Speaker 2: I had to look it up. I was like, why

1197
01:01:51,679 --> 01:01:52,599
is his hair so weird?

1198
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:57,199
Speaker 1: But Conckling had hair like that. Anyway, it's I loved it.

1199
01:01:57,199 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 2: It's four hours.

1200
01:01:58,639 --> 01:02:02,639
Speaker 1: It can be very sad, yes, but there are times

1201
01:02:02,639 --> 01:02:05,639
when you'll laugh. Actually it's it's actually not that dark.

1202
01:02:06,559 --> 01:02:09,679
It's about machine politics. Bradley Whitford is in it as

1203
01:02:09,719 --> 01:02:12,760
a senator and he's he's right in the middle of

1204
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,639
his you know, his sweet spot of acting where he's

1205
01:02:15,679 --> 01:02:18,320
just walking around wheeling and dealing and doing politics and

1206
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:18,920
that sort of thing.

1207
01:02:20,159 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 2: I thought it was extremely interesting.

1208
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 1: I think it's going to get any consideration. I think

1209
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:28,239
across the board. I mean, I probably costume design and

1210
01:02:29,119 --> 01:02:32,599
direction and you know, most of the I can't imagine

1211
01:02:32,639 --> 01:02:36,159
Offerman isn't going to get nominated. I can't imagine McFadden isn't.

1212
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:40,440
I maybe Shannon, oh I shay wig him because that

1213
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:42,679
guy deserves it. I mean, he puts in the work.

1214
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:46,199
That guy is all over everything, and he has never

1215
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,840
ever been anything but completely charismatic and watchable.

1216
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 2: I just thought it was classy, elegant, just a beautiful show.

1217
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: Just a nice old school period drama that taught you

1218
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:58,679
a little bit of history. And it looked great.

1219
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, the graphics opening, everything's just beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. And

1220
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:07,199
it's a period something about our history that I didn't

1221
01:03:07,199 --> 01:03:09,360
know much about that I win a lie and check

1222
01:03:09,519 --> 01:03:11,920
and you know, it helps, it helps.

1223
01:03:12,079 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: Should we take a break or should we launch right in?

1224
01:03:14,559 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's up to you. Let's go on, Yeah,

1225
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:18,280
let's go on.

1226
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 1: I feel like we're but we're going to talk about

1227
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:28,159
Florabus now. Plorabis is on Apple TV Plus. It is

1228
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,840
the creation of Vince Gilligan. The show run, a creator

1229
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:35,599
of Breaking Bed and Better Call Saul, who also cut

1230
01:03:35,639 --> 01:03:38,840
his teeth on The Classic X Files as a producer

1231
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:42,719
writer on that show. So the man has the bona fides.

1232
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:46,079
He knows how to create a television show, and he

1233
01:03:46,239 --> 01:03:49,039
knows how to do an interesting spin on science fiction,

1234
01:03:49,159 --> 01:03:51,719
and he takes all of that to bear here in

1235
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:58,360
the creation of this show. The press was very, very

1236
01:03:58,519 --> 01:04:01,320
cagey about talking about the show. There was an awful

1237
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:07,360
lot of secrecy surrounding what it was about. I don't

1238
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:10,079
feel that that's necessary. I don't feel you need to

1239
01:04:10,119 --> 01:04:12,760
be shielded from what the show is absolutely is about.

1240
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 2: But didn't want to tell me when I wanted.

1241
01:04:15,519 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to see what your reaction would be to

1242
01:04:17,679 --> 01:04:20,719
not knowing. I didn't know when I want. I mean,

1243
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:22,760
I had a sense there were some.

1244
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:24,679
Speaker 2: There we was.

1245
01:04:25,039 --> 01:04:27,119
Speaker 1: There was some indication in the first off in the

1246
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:30,239
trailer that the whole world is in a very happy state,

1247
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:32,559
and the lead character is the one person who was

1248
01:04:32,639 --> 01:04:35,400
not so Obviously, something happens to make everybody that way.

1249
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:39,239
If you don't want to know, then I would, I

1250
01:04:39,719 --> 01:04:43,239
will say right now. Lorenzo says he doesn't he didn't

1251
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,320
like it, and I don't know what his criticisms are yet,

1252
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:49,440
but I like it. I feel that it is intelligent,

1253
01:04:49,559 --> 01:04:52,440
and I feel that Gilligan is someone who I can

1254
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:54,679
put faith in he is going to take this somewhere.

1255
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:56,840
He's going to create a story that is going to

1256
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:02,039
be complex and thought provoking and full of very colorful characters.

1257
01:05:02,119 --> 01:05:07,639
So I don't think it's there yet, but okay. So

1258
01:05:09,199 --> 01:05:13,239
it stars Rayes Seahorn, who was feature was a featured

1259
01:05:13,239 --> 01:05:15,599
player in Better Call Saul for many years, and he

1260
01:05:16,159 --> 01:05:18,679
Gilligan said, he created the show entirely around her, and

1261
01:05:18,719 --> 01:05:22,239
you can feel that, you can feel that she is

1262
01:05:23,039 --> 01:05:25,000
very much the center of the story. In fact, there

1263
01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:27,440
is nobody else in the story about her. In a

1264
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:29,480
certain sense, there is nobody else in the story but her.

1265
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,960
It's a science fiction story, but it's really, you know,

1266
01:05:35,039 --> 01:05:37,960
like the best science fiction stories. What Happens is a mcguffin,

1267
01:05:38,079 --> 01:05:41,679
because it's really just a way of unpacking larger things

1268
01:05:41,679 --> 01:05:47,119
about community, about about you know, misanthropy, about people who

1269
01:05:47,159 --> 01:05:50,679
go through a world cynical and not liking other human beings,

1270
01:05:50,679 --> 01:05:54,159
which the lead character is very much of that. So

1271
01:05:54,199 --> 01:05:57,039
what Happens is and this is all outlined in the beginning.

1272
01:05:57,079 --> 01:05:59,280
It's one of the things that I really really love

1273
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:02,920
about the show is you think it's a mystery box

1274
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:06,679
show like Lost or something like that, and right from

1275
01:06:06,679 --> 01:06:08,360
the jump he's like, no, I'm going to show you everything.

1276
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:10,440
I'm going to answer every question you have as you

1277
01:06:10,559 --> 01:06:16,239
have it. So the you know, the inciting incident is

1278
01:06:16,239 --> 01:06:19,000
that a bunch of astronomers find a signal coming from

1279
01:06:19,079 --> 01:06:21,800
space and eventually they figure out that it is a

1280
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:29,280
formula and a RNA formula, and they synthesize it and

1281
01:06:29,719 --> 01:06:33,840
through a series of mishaps, they're doing experiments with it

1282
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:37,559
and a human gets infected by it, and instantaneously she

1283
01:06:37,639 --> 01:06:40,840
starts infecting other humans because what it does when they

1284
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:45,599
become infected it links all people up to They're all

1285
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:51,239
linked up to one hive mind and eventually, in the

1286
01:06:51,239 --> 01:06:53,400
first half hour or so of the first episode, the

1287
01:06:53,519 --> 01:06:58,519
entire world gets converted in this miss event well entirely

1288
01:06:58,519 --> 01:07:03,320
against their will. And it's fascinating the way that is

1289
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,800
played out. You've seen so many apocalyptic things, You've seen

1290
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:10,000
so many contagion stories and zombie stories and how did

1291
01:07:10,039 --> 01:07:13,519
this break containment kind of thing, and this one actually

1292
01:07:13,559 --> 01:07:16,800
has fresh original takes on how all of that would

1293
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:20,880
play out. It's entertaining to watch. It's also a little

1294
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:28,800
disturbing to watch, but it's clever as hell. I'm going

1295
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:30,599
to stop and let you talk about some of your

1296
01:07:30,599 --> 01:07:33,159
objections before I go further into the plot and what

1297
01:07:33,239 --> 01:07:35,559
I liked about it. Why don't you tell me what

1298
01:07:35,599 --> 01:07:36,519
you didn't like about it?

1299
01:07:36,599 --> 01:07:38,719
Speaker 2: I didn't like anything about it. Honestly, I thought it

1300
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,880
was not believable. Number one, I don't believe it at all.

1301
01:07:43,079 --> 01:07:45,280
I thought it looked cheap for some reason. I don't know.

1302
01:07:45,559 --> 01:07:48,239
I guess because there's not a lot of sound going on.

1303
01:07:48,679 --> 01:07:51,880
But I felt like everything felt like stagy to me.

1304
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,519
I don't know. I didn't like it, didn't find it believable,

1305
01:07:57,639 --> 01:08:00,280
don't believe the fact that only one person right now

1306
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:04,079
is the one going on with everything. Can we keep

1307
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:05,559
some of them? Can we talk about something?

1308
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:10,599
Speaker 1: Let me unpack a few things. So, the main character

1309
01:08:10,719 --> 01:08:13,920
is Carol. She's played by ray Seahorn. She is a

1310
01:08:14,039 --> 01:08:17,680
romanticy author in the sort of outlanders mode kind of thing,

1311
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:22,039
and we meet her on a book tour with her partner.

1312
01:08:23,119 --> 01:08:25,319
She's a lesbian and her partner travels with her and

1313
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:27,439
they're like partners in crime. This is the part that

1314
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:30,239
I'm like, Actually, I'm a little surprised you didn't respond

1315
01:08:30,319 --> 01:08:32,960
well to this because I responded so much to those

1316
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:34,560
opening scenes because it was a.

1317
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 2: Gay couple on a book tour.

1318
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:40,119
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and it was all like, you know, they

1319
01:08:40,119 --> 01:08:41,920
got in the limo and the guy was like, so

1320
01:08:42,119 --> 01:08:43,880
have I ever heard of anything you read? Like that

1321
01:08:44,039 --> 01:08:47,479
sort of stuff is exactly what it's like. Yeah, And

1322
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:51,640
I liked that. And you know, I can't say I

1323
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:54,199
identify with Carol because she is way more of a

1324
01:08:54,199 --> 01:08:57,439
misanthrope than I am. She she really doesn't like the world.

1325
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:02,720
But I did identify with those scenes, and I did,

1326
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:05,279
like we've said this before, like when it came to

1327
01:09:05,359 --> 01:09:07,560
that episode of The Last of Us with Nick Offerman

1328
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:11,760
and Murray Bartlett, that you know, it's interesting when someone

1329
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:14,760
takes on the Apocalypse and puts us a gay character

1330
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:17,600
at the center of it, and thinks about what that

1331
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:19,960
might mean to have a gay character at the center

1332
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:22,000
of it. And you know, here's where I'm going to

1333
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:24,359
get into a spoiler. Although again, it happens half hour

1334
01:09:24,359 --> 01:09:27,880
into the first episode. So there's a mass event where

1335
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,680
people get converted, and what happens is they go into

1336
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,840
a catatonic state and then they have convulsions and when

1337
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:37,520
they wake up, they're all high minds linked and happy

1338
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:41,840
because of it, pleasant happy people who are all reading

1339
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:45,520
each other's minds. But because this happens against their will,

1340
01:09:46,039 --> 01:09:49,319
some people die during the conversion. Their planes crash, cars crashed,

1341
01:09:49,319 --> 01:09:53,359
that sort of thing. And Carol's partner wife dies in

1342
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:56,399
the first night. She never wakes up from her well,

1343
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:57,560
she does briefly.

1344
01:09:57,199 --> 01:09:57,840
Speaker 2: And then she dies.

1345
01:09:57,920 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: It's not made clear what she died from, but a

1346
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,640
could have been anything my heart attack to a head injury.

1347
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:05,000
Because she needed to die based on how the story worked, well,

1348
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:07,279
she wasn't one of the only ones. I mean, I

1349
01:10:07,319 --> 01:10:10,600
won't get into what's revealed later, but the number of

1350
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:15,600
people who died during the transition, it's bad. It's shockingly bad.

1351
01:10:17,359 --> 01:10:21,560
So uh, Carol, uh, for whatever reason, is immune to

1352
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:24,840
this conversion, and everybody knows it because everybody has a

1353
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:27,119
shared mind immediately afterwards, and they.

1354
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 2: Know who's not shared.

1355
01:10:28,399 --> 01:10:33,560
Speaker 1: There's no aggression towards her, there's nothing, because everyone's empathetic

1356
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:36,800
and pleasant and they can't harm other people. It's just

1357
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:40,079
incredibly creepy, and she's very much alone in the world.

1358
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:44,039
Later in the one of the things I did really

1359
01:10:44,039 --> 01:10:46,920
really like, as I said, is that he Gilligan just

1360
01:10:47,359 --> 01:10:49,159
he knows what questions you're going to ask, and he

1361
01:10:49,359 --> 01:10:52,840
has the characters ask them. So when she finds out

1362
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:55,279
what happens, because everyone tells her, there's you know, everyone's

1363
01:10:55,279 --> 01:10:57,520
friendly and they know her name being they tell her

1364
01:10:58,359 --> 01:11:02,000
what's happened, and she asks if there were any other

1365
01:11:02,039 --> 01:11:04,479
people like her who were immune to it, which is, yeah,

1366
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:05,359
that's what I would ask.

1367
01:11:05,399 --> 01:11:06,159
Speaker 2: Am the only one?

1368
01:11:06,239 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 1: Or is there anyone else? And it turns out there's

1369
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:09,720
twelve other people, but they're spread out all over the

1370
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,720
world and only five of them speak English. She asks

1371
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:15,479
for a meeting with five of them, because again, you're

1372
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:17,479
the only person in the world who has this issue,

1373
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:19,640
and everybody in the world has a linked mind. They

1374
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:22,600
give her anything she wants, like anything she wants, you know,

1375
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:25,880
any airplane, any helicopter, whatever. They're all there to make

1376
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:31,039
Carol's life more pleasant. So she goes to this meeting

1377
01:11:31,119 --> 01:11:33,319
in bill bel Spain. And that's the other thing I

1378
01:11:33,319 --> 01:11:35,479
want to address. I don't think this thing looked cheap

1379
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:38,079
at all. Apple TV spends money on their stuff and

1380
01:11:38,119 --> 01:11:40,000
there are a scene there was a scene set in

1381
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:42,680
I don't know what country it was, in it was

1382
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:44,359
some country in the Middle East, and then there was

1383
01:11:44,399 --> 01:11:47,079
another scene set in Bill Bel's Spain, and they shot

1384
01:11:47,079 --> 01:11:49,399
them both on location. I don't think it looks cheap

1385
01:11:49,399 --> 01:11:55,319
at all. And that's again, you know, you see these

1386
01:11:55,359 --> 01:11:59,119
apocalyptic stories, these whatever, zombie, contagion, whatever, and they tend

1387
01:11:59,159 --> 01:12:01,680
to be small. There, tend to be within one community

1388
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:04,479
and the people in it don't know what's happening. But

1389
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,680
she gets answers to anything almost immediately. So by the

1390
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:10,960
second episode, and only two episodes have dropped, it'll be

1391
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:15,479
weekly after that, she gets the lay of the land

1392
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:17,880
for the entire world. She gets to hear what happened

1393
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:19,680
to the rest of the world, how the rest of

1394
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:21,840
the world is dealing with it, and she gets to

1395
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:25,399
meet other people who were not infected. And that scene

1396
01:12:25,399 --> 01:12:27,439
in particular, that was when I was like, Okay, now

1397
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:29,520
I get why we have a gay character at the

1398
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:31,960
center of this, because she needs to be completely alone.

1399
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:36,479
And that doesn't mean that gay people are alone. But

1400
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:41,119
she's at this luncheon with these other survivors who all

1401
01:12:41,159 --> 01:12:45,760
brought their family members with hot spouses, children, sisters, and aunts,

1402
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:52,359
and she's there alone and they don't understand why she's

1403
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:57,560
so intent on fixing this or correcting this because they're like, well,

1404
01:12:57,560 --> 01:12:59,720
my family members are right here, but they're not really there.

1405
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:03,560
And it all comes down to the only person who

1406
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:07,359
can see what's wrong here is the the misanthropic gay

1407
01:13:07,399 --> 01:13:09,319
woman who doesn't have anyone in her life.

1408
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:12,600
Speaker 2: That's when I actually love that. See, that's when they

1409
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:15,760
really lost me because I was not loving the show.

1410
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:17,960
And then when they got to meet the the other

1411
01:13:18,159 --> 01:13:22,680
five people who you know, survived the thing, they're all idiots.

1412
01:13:23,239 --> 01:13:27,760
And I understand you. You're you're traumatized, you're with your family,

1413
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:31,640
but you I acting like idiots. So I was hoping

1414
01:13:32,119 --> 01:13:34,359
when she said, well, I'm going to meet four, you know,

1415
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,000
five people, I was like, great, now we're gonna have

1416
01:13:37,159 --> 01:13:40,880
more people talking and and you know, discussing this. But no,

1417
01:13:41,079 --> 01:13:43,399
they're all idiots. They're happy with everything. So she's going

1418
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:46,159
to be the one. So it's it's a little exhausting

1419
01:13:46,359 --> 01:13:49,119
for me as a viewer to just have her the

1420
01:13:49,279 --> 01:13:50,000
entire time.

1421
01:13:50,359 --> 01:13:56,159
Speaker 1: I'm I find the direction what what what these first

1422
01:13:56,159 --> 01:13:59,600
two episodes implied. I find it really tantalizing because he

1423
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:01,840
has been skill again. He's going to spin out a

1424
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:05,840
complex story with a lot of characters. As these things

1425
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:08,359
stand right now, you can't do that because every other

1426
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:12,000
person in the in the world is a pleasant, zombified

1427
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,079
you know, you can't really have a real conversation with it,

1428
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:18,319
and you can't construct an entire show just around Carol.

1429
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:22,760
So what's going to happen next? And there is a

1430
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:25,560
moment which I won't give away, but it is literally

1431
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:29,279
the last scene in the second episode that indicates to

1432
01:14:29,399 --> 01:14:33,920
me that the people who have been changed are not

1433
01:14:34,079 --> 01:14:34,880
completely gone.

1434
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:36,560
Speaker 2: They're faking or something.

1435
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:40,840
Speaker 1: Now I think they're reachable, I see, And that's going

1436
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:43,640
to be the story, And I mean you need to

1437
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:45,560
watch it to see what I mean. But what these

1438
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:50,760
people are like they are They will stand there and

1439
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,439
tell you that they are the person that they always were.

1440
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:55,720
But at the same time, every single mind on the

1441
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:57,640
world is being filtered through them.

1442
01:14:58,359 --> 01:15:01,399
Speaker 2: So and one of the.

1443
01:15:01,319 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 1: Other things that I think is interesting to unpack is

1444
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:06,880
because everyone's so pleasant and everyone's so happy, and all

1445
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:11,960
bad feelings racism, sexism have all been eliminated. And is

1446
01:15:12,119 --> 01:15:16,520
this RNA sequence responsible for making them happy or is

1447
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:18,840
the fact that their minds are all linked making them

1448
01:15:19,079 --> 01:15:22,600
unusually empathetic. You can't be racist if you're attached to

1449
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:25,720
every black mind on the planet. You can't be sexist

1450
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:28,960
if you are communicating telepathically with every woman on the plane.

1451
01:15:29,359 --> 01:15:32,039
I think that's what they're implying, is that these people

1452
01:15:32,079 --> 01:15:35,640
are not artificially happy, they are artificially empathetic.

1453
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:38,039
Speaker 2: I think I'm not that I want to, but I

1454
01:15:38,079 --> 01:15:40,039
think I need to see more and see how it goes,

1455
01:15:40,239 --> 01:15:40,960
you know, a little more.

1456
01:15:41,119 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm a little more likely to look at a

1457
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:47,800
science fiction setup and think, Wow, there's a lot of

1458
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:51,039
implications here than you are, just because I'm more in

1459
01:15:51,039 --> 01:15:51,560
tune with us.

1460
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:55,640
Speaker 2: Having said that, I love Anna. A character Anna, I

1461
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:57,920
don't know who that is, the woman who with her

1462
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:02,079
the whole time with the you mean, no Anna, her

1463
01:16:02,159 --> 01:16:05,239
name is Anna? Is the person they chose to be

1464
01:16:05,319 --> 01:16:10,640
with Carol. The entire name is Sasha, is it. Yeah?

1465
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:13,119
Speaker 1: I won't get into that, because again, I think her

1466
01:16:13,199 --> 01:16:17,000
introduction is so freaking clever. Uh, there's they introduced this

1467
01:16:17,199 --> 01:16:20,880
character in a manner that it's silent, there's no words

1468
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:22,960
being said. It's about a five minute sequence on the

1469
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:25,760
opening of the second episode, and it's like, oh yeah,

1470
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:28,199
that that is how people would act if all of

1471
01:16:28,199 --> 01:16:31,520
their minds were linked. That this is exactly and these

1472
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:34,479
are the solutions they would come up with. Which the

1473
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:39,640
reason they chose that woman to be Carol's companion is yeah, okay,

1474
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:44,520
it was funny actually, but it was also sinister. I

1475
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,199
like the actress too, and I do think she is

1476
01:16:47,279 --> 01:16:50,239
going to be Carol's companion going forward. And even though

1477
01:16:50,279 --> 01:16:54,319
she's linked to every mind on the planet. Again, there's

1478
01:16:54,359 --> 01:16:56,800
this indication at the end of the second second episode

1479
01:16:56,840 --> 01:17:01,520
that she's not entirely but there's still a person in there.

1480
01:17:02,319 --> 01:17:04,960
The thing is that the first two episodes set this up,

1481
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:06,920
and they set up a question of is this something

1482
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:09,680
she should fight or not because everyone's happy and there's

1483
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:14,520
no hunger or whatever. And then you realize by the

1484
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:19,560
end of the second episode that because they're so fatally empathetic,

1485
01:17:20,039 --> 01:17:24,159
they can't kill any animals, so the food supply is

1486
01:17:24,159 --> 01:17:26,760
going to get completely disrupted. At some point, they have

1487
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:28,880
let all the animals free from all of the zoos,

1488
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:34,199
and there have been some maulings, and they cannot choose

1489
01:17:34,359 --> 01:17:38,119
to hurt any of the uninfected people. So there becomes

1490
01:17:38,159 --> 01:17:41,800
a moment where one of the uneffected people wants to

1491
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:45,159
have sex with one of these women and another one

1492
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:48,840
doesn't think it's correct to do that, and the person

1493
01:17:49,239 --> 01:17:51,800
she says, she's like, we can't choose, we're not allowed

1494
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:54,119
to choose. And I'm like, okay, well right there, they

1495
01:17:54,199 --> 01:17:59,800
can't give consent to sex. That's not utopia, that's really

1496
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:03,079
really be so. And again, none of this is stated.

1497
01:18:03,119 --> 01:18:05,520
You have to sit there and unpack what people are

1498
01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:08,560
telling you and see where things are going. So, yes,

1499
01:18:09,079 --> 01:18:11,119
I understand your frustration with it. I won't make you

1500
01:18:11,159 --> 01:18:13,720
watch it going forward, but I have every faith in

1501
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:16,319
the world that this is, this story is going to

1502
01:18:16,359 --> 01:18:21,079
go somewhere. It's a great performance on her part. She

1503
01:18:21,199 --> 01:18:23,840
can be very, very funny and she can be very

1504
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:26,560
you know, hard to take, but that is the character.

1505
01:18:28,199 --> 01:18:30,560
I don't know if I would recommend this to just

1506
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:33,880
about anybody. I think it is after years and years

1507
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:37,079
and years of all of these zombie contagion stories.

1508
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:38,600
Speaker 2: This is a different story. This is different.

1509
01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:42,479
Speaker 1: This is very, very different, and it's it's bringing up

1510
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:47,359
questions of what is happiness, what is empathy, and where

1511
01:18:47,399 --> 01:18:49,840
does consent fall into all of that Because none of

1512
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:51,880
these people consented to have this done to them, even

1513
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:53,640
though they all say that it's the best thing that

1514
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:54,399
ever happened to them.

1515
01:18:54,399 --> 01:18:54,920
Speaker 2: I agree.

1516
01:18:55,159 --> 01:18:59,560
Speaker 1: So Pluribus on Apple TV Plus very recommended. I don't

1517
01:19:00,079 --> 01:19:03,159
think it's Lorenzo's cup of tea, but check it.

1518
01:19:03,239 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 2: Check it.

1519
01:19:04,079 --> 01:19:06,800
Speaker 1: It's smart and interesting and it does things.

1520
01:19:08,079 --> 01:19:08,399
Speaker 2: Listen.

1521
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:13,079
Speaker 1: I'll say this, I watched the first two episodes two

1522
01:19:13,199 --> 01:19:16,920
or three times, and it wasn't until the third time

1523
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:19,920
I watched it how meticulously certain things are being set up.

1524
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:22,199
And if you watch that scene in the parking lot

1525
01:19:22,199 --> 01:19:28,239
where everything goes bad, it is so meticulously set up

1526
01:19:28,279 --> 01:19:30,880
in the first few minutes that they're scene, the sandwich

1527
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:33,680
board in the background, the guy getting into his truck,

1528
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:38,079
the Keem Turrell's overhead, everything, the breathalyzer in her own car.

1529
01:19:38,399 --> 01:19:41,079
Everything has been meticulously set up so that scene plays

1530
01:19:41,079 --> 01:19:43,760
out exactly the way it should. And I'm watching it

1531
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:46,119
and I'm going, damn, that is such good script writing.

1532
01:19:46,159 --> 01:19:51,159
That is really good television. It's subtle, it's smart, and

1533
01:19:51,239 --> 01:19:56,640
don't be fooled by the zombiesque implications of it, because

1534
01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:59,199
I think it's going somewhere completely different. Nobody's I mean,

1535
01:19:59,239 --> 01:20:02,239
people did die in this accident, but the world is

1536
01:20:02,279 --> 01:20:06,279
the world. There is no apocalypse, And I'm actually fascinated

1537
01:20:06,279 --> 01:20:08,720
by well what are all these people doing, because that's

1538
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:12,000
the other thing she's wondering Albuquerque and it's completely empty.

1539
01:20:12,039 --> 01:20:17,279
Well where are they? What are these people doing? So

1540
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:20,119
that to me is where is where the interest lies? Anyway,

1541
01:20:20,720 --> 01:20:23,840
Ploribus on Apple TV Plus highly recommended. We're going to

1542
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:25,119
take a break and then we're going to come back

1543
01:20:25,119 --> 01:20:29,960
and tear into Frankenstein. We are back and we're going

1544
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:32,560
to talk about Giama del Torros Frankenstein, which dropped on

1545
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:36,520
Netflix this week and very buzz heavy movies starring Oscar

1546
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:39,399
Isaac Mihagoth and Jacob Elordi as the creature.

1547
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,520
Speaker 2: I was very curious, I have to say, because we

1548
01:20:45,119 --> 01:20:47,920
posted so many things on our site, you know, and

1549
01:20:48,079 --> 01:20:52,479
everything looks so beautiful. And I absolutely adore gillianmo der

1550
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:56,880
Tour as a filmmaker. I think he's incredible. I will

1551
01:20:56,920 --> 01:21:01,079
never recover from Pan's Labyrinth. That is just one of

1552
01:21:01,119 --> 01:21:03,520
the most beautiful movies I've ever seen in my life.

1553
01:21:04,119 --> 01:21:08,319
Speaker 1: I think Del Toro is an extremely talented filmmaker and

1554
01:21:08,359 --> 01:21:12,079
an important one of his generation. I think anything he

1555
01:21:12,199 --> 01:21:18,000
makes is well considered and worth seeing. However, Yes, I

1556
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:20,479
had similar problems with this that I have had with

1557
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:24,319
several of his other movies in the past, and mostly

1558
01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:26,920
the Shape of Water and a little bit of Crimson Peak.

1559
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:36,239
His movies are meticulously constructed. They are beautiful to look at.

1560
01:21:36,359 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 2: They are.

1561
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:45,159
Speaker 1: Tragic and poetic and lyrical and just love stories to

1562
01:21:45,199 --> 01:21:48,760
the characters that he is creating or talking about. But

1563
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:55,600
he sometimes gets a wash in his own sentimentality. He

1564
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:59,960
gets a little overwhelmed by it, and his film subsequent

1565
01:22:00,199 --> 01:22:03,560
can get very messy. They just start that's just not

1566
01:22:03,640 --> 01:22:06,319
holding together as well. And I saw this in Shape

1567
01:22:06,359 --> 01:22:08,159
of Water. I saw this in Crimson Peak. There was

1568
01:22:08,159 --> 01:22:10,399
a little bit of this in Nightmare Alley, although I

1569
01:22:10,399 --> 01:22:14,119
do think that was a more meticulously constructed film. Yeah,

1570
01:22:14,159 --> 01:22:17,159
and then I saw it here in Frankenstein, where it's

1571
01:22:17,399 --> 01:22:22,159
beautiful but it's a little messy. Uh, And he makes

1572
01:22:22,319 --> 01:22:26,159
choices to the change the original story. And listen, I'm

1573
01:22:26,199 --> 01:22:27,960
not someone who's like, oh my god, how dare you

1574
01:22:28,079 --> 01:22:31,399
change the original frant whatever Frankenstein's been once they made

1575
01:22:31,479 --> 01:22:34,199
him Abbott and Castella movies with Frankenstein in them, Like,

1576
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:37,640
I'm not really gonna defend Mary Shelley's honor. It's a

1577
01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:40,560
two hundred year old book. He's an iconic literary character

1578
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:44,720
that has been reinterpreted in so many different ways. However,

1579
01:22:46,039 --> 01:22:50,560
this particular production had had a certain air of you know,

1580
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:53,319
he's going back to Shelley's original, you know it's going

1581
01:22:53,359 --> 01:22:56,199
to be And in many ways he did, and he

1582
01:22:56,279 --> 01:22:58,079
is very faithful to the book in a lot of ways.

1583
01:22:59,359 --> 01:23:04,319
But I don't think the changes he made. I understood

1584
01:23:04,359 --> 01:23:09,399
why he made a lot of them, but I don't

1585
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:14,279
think they were necessarily I don't think they necessarily helped

1586
01:23:14,279 --> 01:23:19,800
the story. The biggest one being Elizabeth Miagous's character, who

1587
01:23:20,079 --> 01:23:25,279
is in the book, she is Victor Frankenstein's fiance, and

1588
01:23:25,399 --> 01:23:28,439
that's a very straightforward role for her, but in the

1589
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:33,800
movie she's William Frankenstein, her his brother's fiance. But then

1590
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:36,600
she also kind of is flirting with Victor through the

1591
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:39,479
whole movie, and there's there's a love affair going on there.

1592
01:23:39,880 --> 01:23:44,039
And then when the creature arrives, she has this very erotic,

1593
01:23:44,239 --> 01:23:47,560
romantic response to the creature, and the result is to

1594
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:54,079
make this woman look pretty damn flighty and inconsistent and unintelligent.

1595
01:23:54,239 --> 01:23:58,600
It's just unintelligent. Like when she's first introduced Elizabeth, it's like, oh,

1596
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:01,119
she has an interest in science, an interest in butterflies,

1597
01:24:01,159 --> 01:24:04,560
and she's in and me a goth is Like, I mean,

1598
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:09,319
she's beautiful, but she's so unsettlingly weird on camera, and

1599
01:24:09,359 --> 01:24:12,479
that's her great strength as an actress. And I loved

1600
01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:15,319
her casting in My God, her costumes, I mean.

1601
01:24:15,399 --> 01:24:21,760
Speaker 2: The jury, the Tiffany ridiculous, the beetle angel dress.

1602
01:24:22,399 --> 01:24:24,720
Speaker 1: But I feel like she was not used well she

1603
01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:28,600
she hear. You have this unbelievably charismatic, weird, unsettling actress.

1604
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:31,520
She's perfect for this, and you make her into this

1605
01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:32,560
flighty love interest.

1606
01:24:33,119 --> 01:24:37,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I hated the idea was to use

1607
01:24:37,399 --> 01:24:40,760
her characters as a woman who's unhappy with life and

1608
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:44,079
trying to, you know, search for more or want more.

1609
01:24:44,199 --> 01:24:46,880
Speaker 1: You're layering stuff on the Frankis camp like.

1610
01:24:47,319 --> 01:24:50,239
Speaker 2: It felt like a lot that, you know, a little

1611
01:24:50,279 --> 01:24:51,319
distracting in a way.

1612
01:24:52,399 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 1: I also just didn't love the the You know, we're

1613
01:24:56,479 --> 01:24:58,239
getting into the movie, so if you really don't want

1614
01:24:58,399 --> 01:25:00,560
it's Frankenstein, what do you think happens in the story

1615
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:03,760
when they her carrying her down the steps in her

1616
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:07,079
wedding gown, and I'm like, this is Dracula. This is

1617
01:25:07,079 --> 01:25:10,119
not Frankenstein. This is Dracula like Frankenstein. I'm not saying

1618
01:25:10,159 --> 01:25:13,479
you cannot do an erotic Frankenstein or you Frankenstein's Monster

1619
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:16,239
or a romantic Frankenstein.

1620
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 2: All the creature.

1621
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:20,640
Speaker 1: I think you are confusing that monster with other more

1622
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:24,159
romantic characters. And this is my problem with him as

1623
01:25:24,199 --> 01:25:29,159
a director, his whole persona. He loves horror. He loves monsters,

1624
01:25:29,319 --> 01:25:32,039
but I mean he literally loves monsters. He is in

1625
01:25:32,079 --> 01:25:36,479
love with his monsters. So he always makes these very empathetic,

1626
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:40,399
sympathetic portrayals of his monsters. He always at the end

1627
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:42,119
I find them not very interesting.

1628
01:25:42,279 --> 01:25:44,960
Speaker 2: I think he always wants to give more to the creature,

1629
01:25:45,199 --> 01:25:47,920
like a brain and a soul and a horror and

1630
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:48,399
a lot.

1631
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:50,760
Speaker 1: He was articulate in the book. He was able to

1632
01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:53,279
read and everything, So I mean he was an articulate.

1633
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:55,920
Speaker 2: You can see that he wants a creature to have

1634
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:59,399
a soul. You know, I'm not opposed to that. I

1635
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:01,880
have a heart, and I understand all that. And I

1636
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:06,800
think Jacob Elord did a fantastic job. Yeah, he really did,

1637
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:10,800
he really did. You felt with this character you sympathize.

1638
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:13,520
I don't know, I mean you just you know you

1639
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:15,119
you were with him the entire time.

1640
01:26:15,479 --> 01:26:18,840
Speaker 1: Like I said, Del Toro falls in love with his monsters,

1641
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:22,119
and he is only capable of giving them the most

1642
01:26:22,159 --> 01:26:27,640
sympathetic portrayals. And the creature in Frankenstein is you know,

1643
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:32,640
he's not an ambiguous character, not really. He he is

1644
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:35,479
articulate and intelligent, and he does have a soul, and

1645
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:38,319
he is a tragic, tragic figure and a victim of

1646
01:26:38,359 --> 01:26:42,279
the you know, Baron Frankenstein's madness. At the same time,

1647
01:26:42,359 --> 01:26:46,760
he is violent and he he he kills people, he

1648
01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:50,960
murders people, and he he frames someone else for murder

1649
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:53,199
in the book. Like, he's not a good character. He's

1650
01:26:53,279 --> 01:26:55,760
very much in that sort of Doctor Jekyl mister Hyde

1651
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:58,720
nineteenth century version of a monster, which is there are

1652
01:26:58,760 --> 01:27:03,720
parts of him that are likable and and maybe even tragic,

1653
01:27:03,840 --> 01:27:06,560
but in the end, he's still a monster. And I

1654
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:08,960
do think sometimes Del Toro was limited as a horror

1655
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:12,039
director because at some point you need to let your

1656
01:27:12,079 --> 01:27:15,840
monster be monsters. And the most violent thing we saw

1657
01:27:16,119 --> 01:27:19,279
that creature do was kill a bunch of wolves. I

1658
01:27:19,319 --> 01:27:21,199
know he kills people in the movie, and I know

1659
01:27:21,279 --> 01:27:23,279
that the gore gets a little out of hand sometimes

1660
01:27:23,279 --> 01:27:27,159
in this movie, but he's so romanticized he's and del

1661
01:27:27,199 --> 01:27:29,319
Torro is so in love with his beautiful version of

1662
01:27:29,359 --> 01:27:32,840
the creature that I think sometimes it just it gets

1663
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:37,840
in the way of telling a particularly clear story. That's

1664
01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:40,880
del Toro's that and that's a lot of the narrative stuff.

1665
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:42,239
And if you can get past or or if that

1666
01:27:42,239 --> 01:27:44,640
stuff doesn't matter to you, it's stunning.

1667
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:45,520
Speaker 2: It's gorgeous.

1668
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:49,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody gives I mean, Mia Gotha isn't given enough

1669
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:51,239
to do. But nobody gives a bad performance in this

1670
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:54,239
except for maybe Christoph Waltz, who I think was just

1671
01:27:54,279 --> 01:27:57,560
completely on. That was a character again that was added

1672
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:01,640
to the story, not in the books. Complicates the background,

1673
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:04,039
and I didn't really feel there was any reason for it.

1674
01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:05,960
Speaker 2: Dance.

1675
01:28:06,039 --> 01:28:08,800
Speaker 1: I mean again, that is another edition from the books,

1676
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:12,279
is that Victor Frankenstein has given this abusive father, and

1677
01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:16,479
all of these changes, including making Elizabeth's romantic history much

1678
01:28:16,520 --> 01:28:22,319
more complicated, was to basically to support the idea that

1679
01:28:22,399 --> 01:28:25,720
Victor Frankenstein is an asshole, a complete Asshayle, I actually

1680
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:29,319
enjoyed that, and an abusive father try to enjoy his creature.

1681
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:31,800
I think all of that is interesting. But you didn't

1682
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:34,319
need to give Victor Frankenstein an abusive father. You didn't

1683
01:28:34,319 --> 01:28:39,239
need to give Elizabeth Frankenstein. That's very complicated romantic history.

1684
01:28:39,279 --> 01:28:41,920
You could have just made Victor an asshole. It is

1685
01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:46,880
a great portrayal of Victor Frankenstein. Oscar Isaac is fantastic

1686
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:50,439
in it. When he first breaks out the English accent,

1687
01:28:51,199 --> 01:28:53,920
I'm like, is this really plain time? What I cast

1688
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:57,039
Oscar Isaac as this character? And they do make some

1689
01:28:57,159 --> 01:29:00,439
commentary about his dark haired mother, and I think there's

1690
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:03,399
some implication that there's romany in his background or whatever.

1691
01:29:04,399 --> 01:29:06,000
But the whole time I was watching it and I was like,

1692
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:07,960
you know, I would have just made him Spanish, like

1693
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:10,720
I would have just made his mother Spanish and have him,

1694
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:14,039
you know, speak with that accent instead of an English accent.

1695
01:29:14,039 --> 01:29:18,439
If you're going to make those changes, these are little

1696
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:20,560
nitpicky things. One more thing, I will.

1697
01:29:20,359 --> 01:29:21,439
Speaker 2: Say that.

1698
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:27,039
Speaker 1: The production design is insane, but it's also insane, not

1699
01:29:27,159 --> 01:29:27,840
in a good way.

1700
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:30,520
Speaker 2: I get it.

1701
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:32,800
Speaker 1: I get that he loved and you know, Crimson Peak

1702
01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:34,800
was like this as well, where the house is simply

1703
01:29:34,840 --> 01:29:36,600
not believable as a structure.

1704
01:29:36,680 --> 01:29:37,279
Speaker 2: It's just not.

1705
01:29:40,199 --> 01:29:45,520
Speaker 1: It's the laboratory with the giant hole in the center

1706
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:50,600
that makes zero, zero sense. Accept The minute they showed it,

1707
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:53,479
I was like, well, someone's dying, someone's going down that hole.

1708
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:55,399
That's the only reason it's there. And of course someone did.

1709
01:29:56,039 --> 01:30:00,119
And the big massive Medusa face on the back what No.

1710
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:02,920
I was not to sound pretentious, but I'm like, I

1711
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:04,720
just got back from Europe. They don't do stuff like

1712
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:08,199
that on castles. That's not something. It just looked weird,

1713
01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:12,239
and I get it. It's the same thing with the costumes.

1714
01:30:12,239 --> 01:30:14,640
They are not period accurate. They're not accurate to anything.

1715
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:18,000
They're completely fanciful. All those women with veils over their faces.

1716
01:30:18,039 --> 01:30:20,680
Speaker 2: And do a little research on the coffins because I

1717
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:22,399
thought that was interesting that they have a face in

1718
01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:26,000
their clyssto clear? Is that real? Yes? They were beautiful

1719
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:28,159
people with a lot of money. I mean it cost

1720
01:30:28,239 --> 01:30:30,560
a fortune. In what country? Were they in sweats? I

1721
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:33,239
don't remember, but but it was way before we started

1722
01:30:33,239 --> 01:30:36,479
the wooden ones, so sort of and then they had money.

1723
01:30:37,039 --> 01:30:39,520
I don't know. All the details. But I went and

1724
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:42,479
I was like, we was that real? Yes? And they

1725
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:44,399
cost a fortune. I mean only people with a lot

1726
01:30:44,399 --> 01:30:47,560
of money could affoid them. I so that was that

1727
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:48,520
was an interesting piece.

1728
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:52,399
Speaker 1: Great listen, I'm not treasuring this movie. It's highly recommended.

1729
01:30:53,159 --> 01:30:56,600
I think a lord he probably should get a nomination. Yeah,

1730
01:30:56,640 --> 01:31:00,680
he's the way he uses his body, Yes, his body

1731
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:04,520
language and everything and and and when he's pre verbal

1732
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:07,520
as a character that it's just beautiful work.

1733
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:10,760
Speaker 2: It's really beautiful, so freaking tall number one and they

1734
01:31:10,760 --> 01:31:13,720
play into that. Yeah. So and he's he I was

1735
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:16,880
reading interviews and watching interviews with him on TikTok. First

1736
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:18,840
of all, they all praise him for have so much

1737
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:20,960
patience because he took like hours and hours and hours

1738
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:24,960
to do all that making. He's naked when he and

1739
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:28,279
the costume design, everybody makeup. People were saying that he

1740
01:31:28,359 --> 01:31:31,239
never complained. He was, you know, doing his best because

1741
01:31:31,239 --> 01:31:33,119
he really believed in the part and want to do

1742
01:31:33,159 --> 01:31:35,159
his best, and he did. He did a very good job.

1743
01:31:35,600 --> 01:31:39,039
I thought he was incredible. And he's so young and

1744
01:31:39,119 --> 01:31:43,680
he's having a very hot career right now, but I

1745
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:47,159
thought he did a good job. It looked beautiful. Yes, uh.

1746
01:31:47,279 --> 01:31:49,560
And in the beginning, I have to say I have

1747
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:51,159
to say that honestly, in the beginning, I was a

1748
01:31:51,159 --> 01:31:54,960
little confused with what's going on. Yeah, I wasn't expecting

1749
01:31:55,039 --> 01:31:59,239
the movie to start the way he did, but it

1750
01:31:59,279 --> 01:32:00,119
was an interesting way.

1751
01:32:01,119 --> 01:32:02,840
Speaker 1: And then I'm just going to get into the one

1752
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:07,119
part that I really hated, and it's not a small part,

1753
01:32:07,239 --> 01:32:10,279
and I loathed it because I was like, this is

1754
01:32:10,319 --> 01:32:15,119
a change that fundamentally alters the entire story, and I

1755
01:32:15,159 --> 01:32:19,960
just don't understand why it was necessary. Frankenstein is superpowered.

1756
01:32:20,199 --> 01:32:23,279
Frankenstein's monster. I mean, the creature is he's as strong

1757
01:32:23,319 --> 01:32:27,720
as Superman. He could lift up a boat, and he's

1758
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:30,880
like got a healing factor like Wolverine or Deadpool. Like

1759
01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:36,039
at a certain point, at one point, the creature is

1760
01:32:36,079 --> 01:32:39,960
holding a lit stick of dynamite, which he completely when

1761
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:42,800
the smoke clears, He's just standing there and I'm like, what,

1762
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:46,800
there's still physics involved that would blow a body apartart.

1763
01:32:47,079 --> 01:32:49,720
You made a body, it's human body, and none of

1764
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:52,520
this is explained. You used human body parts and you

1765
01:32:52,520 --> 01:32:55,159
stitch them together and now they have superpowers.

1766
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:57,920
Speaker 2: I like, I guess all the electricity. I don't know what,

1767
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:00,640
it just isn't needed. Was right.

1768
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:04,039
Speaker 1: The creature does not have superpowers. The creature is not

1769
01:33:04,119 --> 01:33:07,720
an immortal creature that can survive anything. And this was

1770
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:11,479
a story point. It kept coming up that, oh, Victor

1771
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:14,239
wants to kill him, but he's this unkillable monster.

1772
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:17,560
Speaker 2: Okay, what I hated it.

1773
01:33:17,560 --> 01:33:20,199
Speaker 1: It's adding super At one point where he basically lifts

1774
01:33:20,279 --> 01:33:22,439
the boat out of the water, I was like, oh.

1775
01:33:22,399 --> 01:33:27,279
Speaker 2: No, because point when when you're that invincible, in my

1776
01:33:27,479 --> 01:33:30,720
mind always just like all right, nothing matters, nothing matters

1777
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:33,920
what you do. Just kill Victor and go wander out

1778
01:33:34,079 --> 01:33:35,640
Like that's the frustration.

1779
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:39,399
Speaker 1: Hero's story. It's not supposed to be a superhero story.

1780
01:33:39,439 --> 01:33:41,600
It's it's supposed to be the story of a monster

1781
01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:44,840
who was abused by a father, and you know that

1782
01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:47,000
sort of thing that to me was one of those

1783
01:33:47,039 --> 01:33:49,800
things where I'm sorry, that's not defensible. It was a

1784
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:53,960
bad choice. It does not ruin the film, but it does,

1785
01:33:54,039 --> 01:33:56,279
like a lot of the other like the Elizabeth stuff,

1786
01:33:56,880 --> 01:33:58,960
it alters the story in a way that just makes

1787
01:33:58,960 --> 01:33:59,720
it a different story.

1788
01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:01,920
Speaker 2: It's a the time he spent with the old man,

1789
01:34:01,960 --> 01:34:02,880
he's at party in the book.

1790
01:34:03,239 --> 01:34:06,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's in the book. And that's exactly how

1791
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:08,560
it plays out in the book, is that he his

1792
01:34:08,640 --> 01:34:11,600
family members go away for the winter and he spends

1793
01:34:11,640 --> 01:34:14,159
it with the old man learning I read, and they

1794
01:34:14,199 --> 01:34:16,520
show up and all of that is directly from the book.

1795
01:34:17,239 --> 01:34:18,199
Speaker 2: Maybe I should read the book.

1796
01:34:18,239 --> 01:34:20,119
Speaker 1: It's I do want to read the book. I've never

1797
01:34:20,159 --> 01:34:22,199
read it, but I did look it up a lot

1798
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:24,880
to get the plot Summery, because I knew certain things

1799
01:34:24,880 --> 01:34:28,920
weren't right, especially the Elizabeth stuff. Just doesn't You're just

1800
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:31,920
turning her into like Lucy Weston Row from Dracula. She's

1801
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:34,119
in a bridal gown with blood and you're carrying her

1802
01:34:34,159 --> 01:34:37,159
down the stairs and she's just incredibly and I'm like, no,

1803
01:34:37,279 --> 01:34:41,039
that's not what that guy. I just I think you're

1804
01:34:41,079 --> 01:34:45,479
confusing what Frankenstein is. And it's not that you cannot

1805
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:50,840
layer sexual aspects onto that character, but I do think

1806
01:34:51,079 --> 01:34:54,439
romantic doesn't quite fly. That's not a romantic character. It's

1807
01:34:54,439 --> 01:34:56,359
a bunch of body parts. It's a violent bunch of

1808
01:34:56,359 --> 01:34:58,520
body parts, you know what I mean. At least Dracula

1809
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:01,920
was a guy in a tuxedo in a cape. I

1810
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:03,760
just didn't agree with it, and I this was the

1811
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:05,680
problem I had with the Shape of Water because I

1812
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:08,159
thought that story was fucking stupid, Like, what the hell

1813
01:35:08,279 --> 01:35:09,680
she's given up her life for a fish?

1814
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:10,560
Speaker 2: No, that's dumb.

1815
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:14,439
Speaker 1: And in that movie, every other character was such a

1816
01:35:14,439 --> 01:35:17,199
cliche that it was offensive to me. The sassy black

1817
01:35:17,279 --> 01:35:20,000
maid and the tragic, right, middle aged gay character.

1818
01:35:20,159 --> 01:35:22,760
Speaker 2: And I think that's when he turns every creature into

1819
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:24,359
a human being kind of thing.

1820
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:27,119
Speaker 1: He's too sympathetic with these creatures, like make a creature

1821
01:35:27,159 --> 01:35:31,720
that I'm scared of, right, because ultimately, you know, the

1822
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:34,880
creature is supposed to be scary. The story of Frankenstein

1823
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:39,000
is the story of science run a monk and man

1824
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:43,359
playing god and something that's that's unnatural and should not happen,

1825
01:35:43,680 --> 01:35:46,359
whereas in del Toro's it's like, well, why can't we

1826
01:35:46,680 --> 01:35:48,840
leave this beautiful creature alone to live his life?

1827
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:51,199
Speaker 2: And that's not the story. That's why I like the

1828
01:35:51,199 --> 01:35:56,920
way they depicted a victor Frankenstein because he's an asshole. Yeah,

1829
01:35:57,000 --> 01:35:59,800
and he clearly doesn't give a shit about.

1830
01:35:59,640 --> 01:36:02,880
Speaker 1: The no no, he's he regrets the fact that they

1831
01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:04,640
absolutely nailed that.

1832
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:05,199
Speaker 2: That was good.

1833
01:36:05,359 --> 01:36:08,279
Speaker 1: It was good, and he gave a great performance. I

1834
01:36:08,319 --> 01:36:11,399
did hate that his brother said you're the monster Victor.

1835
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:13,359
I was like, we really didn't need that laid out

1836
01:36:13,359 --> 01:36:16,279
for us. We know, thank you. You may die now,

1837
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:22,239
but it's worth your time. My god, it's on Netflix.

1838
01:36:22,319 --> 01:36:24,800
It's cunning, and I have to admit a lot of

1839
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:27,760
critics who saw it in the festival said please catch

1840
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:30,800
just before in the theater before it goes to Netflix,

1841
01:36:31,239 --> 01:36:33,359
and I kind of wish I had because you can tell,

1842
01:36:33,399 --> 01:36:35,640
you can tell this must have looked amazing on a

1843
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:36,119
big string.

1844
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:38,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, all these scenes.

1845
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:44,079
Speaker 1: YEA highly recommended, although I find his change is problematic

1846
01:36:44,439 --> 01:36:50,319
because I don't necessarily agree with del Toro's take on monsters.

1847
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:53,520
He thinks they're all angels, and I'm like, well, that's

1848
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:56,079
a very limited view of this genre.

1849
01:36:56,239 --> 01:36:58,800
Speaker 2: I think I agree, but I do want to watch

1850
01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:00,800
it again because I feel like I'm a lot of stuff.

1851
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:03,840
It's beautiful, It is so beautiful to look at.

1852
01:37:05,079 --> 01:37:10,079
Speaker 1: The costume design is just I mean, Mia gots just insane.

1853
01:37:10,159 --> 01:37:13,199
Speaker 2: It is inane. When she shows up, it's just like, it's.

1854
01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:16,520
Speaker 1: Not astackerate, it's not accurate to any part of history

1855
01:37:16,640 --> 01:37:19,960
or any culture. It's it's pretty fanciful, much like the architecture.

1856
01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:21,399
Speaker 2: But it works.

1857
01:37:21,479 --> 01:37:24,359
Speaker 1: Like I said, she's so weird and unsettling that I mean,

1858
01:37:24,439 --> 01:37:25,159
I love when they.

1859
01:37:25,119 --> 01:37:26,720
Speaker 2: Thought and everything.

1860
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:30,279
Speaker 1: I love her and I was so looking forward to

1861
01:37:30,279 --> 01:37:34,199
this role and and I don't want to give anything away.

1862
01:37:34,199 --> 01:37:36,560
I thought she was going to be the bride, literally

1863
01:37:36,600 --> 01:37:38,960
the Bride of Frankenstein, and they actually alluded to it,

1864
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:40,239
but it never went in that direction.

1865
01:37:42,159 --> 01:37:42,560
Speaker 2: Anyway.

1866
01:37:44,119 --> 01:37:47,359
Speaker 1: I will say this, strangely, I feel like he left

1867
01:37:47,399 --> 01:37:48,319
it open for a sequel.

1868
01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:49,199
Speaker 2: Could be.

1869
01:37:49,359 --> 01:37:52,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not big on sequels, but I mean, you

1870
01:37:52,399 --> 01:37:55,479
could actually do a Bride of Frankenstein based off this movie.

1871
01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:58,119
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, yeah, well he asked for.

1872
01:37:58,239 --> 01:38:00,760
Speaker 1: Well, Victor's dead at the end of it, things away.

1873
01:38:00,720 --> 01:38:03,800
Speaker 2: The cruture as for a partner.

1874
01:38:03,640 --> 01:38:07,000
Speaker 1: He does, but and then the book Frankenstein makes one

1875
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:08,920
for him, and then the stories are that's that's the

1876
01:38:09,079 --> 01:38:13,239
story of the Bride of Frankenstein. Anyway, I think we've yes, uh,

1877
01:38:14,119 --> 01:38:16,520
you know, bored you enough. I thank you for sitting through.

1878
01:38:16,600 --> 01:38:18,520
How long is this one? This might be the long everyone?

1879
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:20,760
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and thank you for all the

1880
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:23,920
lovely comments on the Instagram when we posted all the

1881
01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:27,399
pictures of our trip. We had the most wonderful time.

1882
01:38:27,840 --> 01:38:29,560
And if you haven't seen them yet, go to our

1883
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:32,920
Instagram account. Look at all of them. Tom and Lorenzo Official.

1884
01:38:33,079 --> 01:38:37,199
Yes that's the one, not Tomal Lorenzo anymore. Tom Lorenzo Official.

1885
01:38:37,319 --> 01:38:39,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that one got hacked and now we haven't been

1886
01:38:39,640 --> 01:38:41,439
able to update it for months. So go to Tom

1887
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:46,159
Lorenzo Official on Instagram follow us. Yes, all right, we'll

1888
01:38:46,199 --> 01:38:48,239
be back next week with whatever crosses our eyes or

1889
01:38:48,239 --> 01:38:50,560
acrosses our desks. Until then, take care of yourselves, love

1890
01:38:50,560 --> 01:38:51,000
you mean it.

1891
01:38:51,039 --> 01:39:07,039
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye.

1892
01:39:00,039 --> 01:39:04,840
Speaker 1: Resac Riek and Advice and cielk in ad Fanshak Creek

1893
01:39:05,119 --> 01:39:08,279
and the grafan hild To Satanson