Speaker 1: All right, everybody, welcome back, Welcome back to the Surely
you Can't Be Serious podcast.
Speaker 2: We are here in a biker bar. I'm enjoying a
little pool and a little beer, and there's a naked man.
Speaker 3: Here and then you close your boots and your motorcycle.
Speaker 2: You forgot to say please Welcome back, everybody. This is
the second part of our Terminator versus Terminator two podcast.
Sure and check out last week's episode where we talked
about the origin story on both of these and the casting,
and now we're ready to jump into the movies and
the production themselves.
Speaker 3: Yes, one of the things I want to talk about
before we get too far down the line. They brought
Linda Hamilton back for Terminator two. Yes, let's talk about
Linda's body.
Speaker 2: She did a little bit of running and a little
bit of weightlifting.
Speaker 3: I believe goodness, it was the talk of the entertainment
world at that time. She transformed herself from puny, little
wiener little Sarah Connor from nineteen eighty four right into
hardened butt kicking Sarah Connor from nineteen ninety one.
Speaker 2: Yep, she apparently was training with Robert de niro k
fear right came out of ninety one as well. He
looked like a He got ribbed up too, that's right,
poop House as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, apparently she lost twelve pounds, uh huh and just
muscled up. You can tell as she's running down the
hallway and in the fight scenes she is athletic and
fast and fit and tough.
Speaker 2: And I imagine her from Terminator one dressed in the
military fatigues that she puts on a termination she would
have looked completely wrong. She would have looked like a
marshmallow inside of a bulletproof vest. It doesn't make any sense.
She made herself look like a hardened tough I've spent
my entire life training for the days that are to come.
Speaker 4: Morning, Sarah, Good morning, doctor Silverman.
Speaker 2: How's the knee?
Speaker 3: Those pull ups that she did in her room, that's
really her out there, just shredding it. And actually Arnold
himself said, I'm really impressed with how Linda has trained
her body and gotten fit.
Speaker 2: They wanted her to cut her hair.
Speaker 3: That's right. She actually held her ground on that. They
really wanted her to cut her hair kind of short,
military esque.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's going to be Vasquez from Aliens.
Speaker 3: That's right, and she's like, I want to keep it long.
I want to hold onto that femininity just a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it worked, it worked, It would I I don't
think I would have liked the I liked the haircut
on Vesquez. I don't think I would have liked it
on her. Yeah.
Speaker 3: But I mean, once again, James Cameron demonstrating how to
have a female tough protagonist. Yep, Vasquez, Ripley, and now
Sarah Connor.
Speaker 2: All Right, so let's jump back to Terminator and talk
about the making of Okay, this is James Cameron's first movie.
I'll say it again, this is James Cameron's first movie.
He had done Exogenesis, which was a twenty minute thing
that he did with his high school buddies on a
no budget. I mean, go check it out. It's awesome,
but it's not a movie. And then he had Piranha two,
which he got fired from he didn't direct. He wanted
his name taken off of it because he didn't direct it.
Right now, he's the guy in charge of what is
becoming a truly large budget, amazing movie.
Speaker 3: It's one of the most iconic movies of the eighties.
Speaker 2: But and it's not a huge budget.
Speaker 3: The budget of the original Terminator six point four million dollar.
Speaker 2: That's not very much money, no, I mean when we're
talking about Hollywood money that I mean remember that five
years before this, Tom Scarrett had heard about that number
and he was like, sounds like an ed Wood movie. Yeah, right.
But this is what Roger Corman says about James Cameron
because they were talking to him about Titanic and the
fact that you know, this was the most expensive movie
of all time, and Roger Corman had said previously like
you should never have to spend that much money in
a movie. But when they talk to him about James Cameron,
he goes the difference with James Cameron is you can
see all of those dollar bills on the screen. You
don't see something that's wasted. He takes every dollar and
makes it look like ten.
Speaker 3: That's exactly right. This is the same guy who painted
big Macs dirofoam containers and put him on the wall
for Galaxy of Terror.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is what he did. Like Roger Corman came in,
He's like, it doesn't really have any dimension on this wall.
I feel like it needs more depth and more variation.
And Jim Cameron's like, I'll see what I can do, Sir.
Roger Corman Leaves comes back the next morning, has got
the wall completely covered with boxes that he bought from
a grocery store, dials that he picked up at a
hardware store, and he's like, Jim, this is amazing. How
much did it cost? He's like, twelve dollars.
Speaker 3: That's great.
Speaker 2: He knows how to stretch the dollar and make it work.
And that's exactly what he's doing on this movie.
Speaker 3: By the way, let's let's just go ahead and get
this on the table right now. Yeah, Terminator's budget six
point four million. Okay, you compare that to Terminator two
one hundred and two million dollars.
Speaker 2: That's a little bit of a jump.
Speaker 3: That's a jump, right, Yeah, But Terminator made over seventy
eight million dollars on a six million dollar budget. Yep, okay,
Terminator two five hundred and twenty million dollars. Wow, so
took relatively modest budgets. Now T Two's is exorbitant, but
he made five times as much, right, so impressive, hits.
Speaker 2: Yes. Before we get going, I just want to point
something out. We have been talking to each other now
for a couple of years face to fight. And one
of the reasons that I can do that is because
you don't have nose hair. Have you been talking to
people and like you can't even concentrate on what they're
saying because of their nose hair.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, they like tuck to you.
Speaker 2: It dangles, yes, it wiggles. It's a total distraction. Absolutely,
And so let me let me say, if you are
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Speaker 3: It is an amazing product. It trims your nose hair.
It's not embarrassing. You just stick it up there. It
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Speaker 2: You're not gonna look at people and bother them, right,
And I'm one of those guys who's self conscious about
my nose hair. So somebody that you're gonna see me
and I'm gonna be like yanking them out and wincing
in pain, don't do that. There is a special thing
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Speaker 3: That's wonderful.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes it is.
Speaker 3: So it's very it's very good around sensitive areas, if
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Speaker 2: Yeah. They have also an entire shave kit called the
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Speaker 3: Whack it perfect.
Speaker 2: So Los Angeles Colon twenty twenty nine, Yeah, which in
nineteen eighty four seemed like a long ways away and
right now it's eight years away.
Speaker 3: Do we have any laser guns right now? No?
Speaker 2: But we do have AI. Yeah, we've got AI that
I've seen. Elon Musk could go. Yeah. I tried to
tell them that they needed to be careful about this,
but they just wouldn't listen, Like, holy crap, dude.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: The good news is we haven't had the nuclear holocausts
back in nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 3: Skynet has not become self aware just.
Speaker 2: Yet not yet.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well that's cool. I've got some behind the scenes
stuff I want to talk about from the movie Terminator.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 3: Okay. So we talked about how sometimes they had filmmaking
permits and sometimes they didn't. They filmed most of this
movie at night. Yeah, so it messed with the cast's
sleeping schedule and stuff.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: So it was kind of a tense thing. But people
come up to Michael Bean and they're like, oh, man,
so you were on the Terminator. He's like, yeah, I
was in the Terminator. Like what's it like working with Arnold?
He's like, I don't know. I never worked with him.
They were there in one shot together that's in the
Tech Noir. Okay. So the Terminator comes, puts the laser
right on Sarah Connor's forehead, and Reese makes his move
and shoots him actually in the arm, which if you
watch carefully, I didn't really pick up on this. That
shotgun blast to his arm. It damages his arm and
that's why he has to go fix it later. But
they never interacted. They never spoke on screen, and Arnold
made it a point not to hang out with Lynn
Hamilton and Michael Bean. He didn't want to be friendly
with him. Right, I'm the dominator. I'm trying to kill you. Yeah,
they shared one scene together, and you think about it
when Michael Bean gets killed later on the movie. Yeah,
it's not Arnold, it's that it's the Endo skeleton.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: Wow, never worked with Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Speaker 2: Crazy, Okay, most iconic line's probably said it five times already,
most Yeah, you would, what is it? Say it?
Speaker 3: I'll be back?
Speaker 2: Right? So, Arnold Schwarzenegger did not want to say that
line that way, right, He didn't want to do it.
And he comes and I mean, you got to think
about this. You've got the first time director. He's stressed out.
They've gone through quite a bit of production at this point.
He and Arnold got along great. They've read motorcycles together.
They got along really well, except for this moment where
Arnold comes to him and says, I don't like this line.
It doesn't make any sense. It should be I will
be back.
Speaker 3: I think he's got a good point.
Speaker 2: But James Cameron was steadfast. He's like, really, at this point,
you're rewriting my script for me. You're the actor. I'm
the scriptwriter, just say it the way that I wrote it.
So Arnold has still giving him He's like, my accent,
it's all. He recognized himself that he couldn't enunciate that
word the appropriate way, and so James Cameron's like, we
will film it six different ways and pick the best one.
I'll be back, and it becomes the most iconic line
in the whole movie.
Speaker 3: According to AFI, the American Film Institute, I'll be back
is the number thirty seventh greatest line in movie history.
Speaker 2: Wow, pull that right out of your head.
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 3: I wrote that down.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because if you just think about, like if
you just looked at that on the written page, it's
a throwaway line, right right, I'll be that. That's not
a big important line. But because it's followed up, like
because the audience is in on the fact that this
guy is a terminator and he's doing whatever he wants
to to reach his target, you know something's about to happen.
And my gosh, they give us the dessert before the meal.
They have him drive that car right through freaking front
so cool.
Speaker 3: And that assault on the police station is amazing because
the police are no match for this guy, and Reese
had just told them what was going to happen. Yeah,
he's like, you don't get it. He'll wave through you,
reach down her throat and pull out her effing heart.
Speaker 2: He'll find her. That's what he done.
Speaker 3: That's all he's done.
Speaker 5: He'll can't stop him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the It is something that you've seen time
and again where someone who genuinely has gone through a
miraculous or scientifically implausible thing. I mean, look, think about
Back to the Future and they're talking about their reality
and to everyone else they've seem crazy crazy, right, But
it's there's a cut scene you know about this. There's
a cut scene during that shootout where that police chief
realizes that Reese had been telling the truth, that like,
this is really happening, and he's the one that gives
Reese the gun so that Reese can fight back.
Speaker 3: Really Yeah, oh that's amazing. I wish we'd have seen that. Yeah, okay,
so here's the deal. I got a stat for you.
Ready for this? The Terminator in part one, the T
eight hundred, the original, Yes, he kills twenty seven people. Okay, okay,
stay with me now, Yeah, he kills the Punker at
the beginning where he actually does reach inside his body
pulls out his heart. Yeah, he kills the gun store owner,
our buddy from Gremlins.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: He kills two Sarah Connors, Sarah Connor. Yeah, he kills
Madden Ginger.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: He kills three people in tech nowir the club, Yes
with the Newsy Yes, seventeen police officers, which we find
out in Terminator two. Right, and then Sarah's.
Speaker 2: Mother, Oh, that's right, the destroyed house when she's called
and he's imitating her voice. Yep.
Speaker 3: I mean we didn't see that, but we got to assume. Yeah,
you know, the subject is typically terminated. Yes, you know, right,
twenty seven people killed by the Terminator. You know, many
people he kills in the second one zero zero zero,
because that was the promise, right. Yeah, Now, the t
one thousand kills the police officer at the beginning, he
kills Janelle and Todd. He kills Max the dog, which
is a cut scene. I don't know if you know
about this.
Speaker 2: Oh it's tragic.
Speaker 3: Did you see that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I did not.
Speaker 3: He kills the dog, the family dog, murders the dog.
Speaker 2: Speaking of dogs. During the production of Terminator one of
the studio guys comes in and says, hey, you know what,
I don't think that Reese is very sympathetic. I think
he would be. It would be better if he had
a dog. And so they were supposed to like he's
like he suggested him having a Terminator dog. Yeah, and
so and so James Cameron was like, that's a great idea.
I'll see if I can work with that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, super idea. I think I'll put it in maybe
maybe never. So listen to this when you talk about
changing the script. Yeah, okay, this is this is such
typical suit behavior, right. These guys Daily and another guy
named Mike Metavoy, who had recommended arn Swarzenator to Cameron,
come to him and say, we want the movie Terminator
to die after the tanker explosion, like Reese slides that
pipe bomb in there, it blows up. We want the
Terminator to die because it's gonna be pretty expensive from
that point on. So the no yeah, so so, no
resurrection of the endoskeleton, no awesome chase of the robot right,
no hydraulic press, none of that, no death of Reese.
All of that was gonna be cut. So the suit's
coming to Jim Cameron and they say, hey, we want
you to cut that scene from the tanker explosion on yes,
And Jim Cameron is like, if you the movie is
not over yet, right, that's really similar to what happened
in Terminator two. They wanted to cut that biker scene
at the beginning. Okay, what the introduction of the terminator, right,
and all this stuff, the really cool fight and the
pool que and then all that stuff. Yeah, And so
they went to Arnold and they said, listen, Jim's not
gonna like this, but we want to cut that opening scene.
We already know who the Terminator is. We don't need
to rEFInd out that information. And so Arnold Schwarzenegger said,
that's only something a suit would say. I'm not going
to say that to Jim. We'll film that scene both times.
The studio back down.
Speaker 2: Nice, Well, it's Arnold Schwarzenegger, what are you going to do? Right? So,
before they got the news that they had to postpone
making Terminator one because Dino de la Renis had said
we're making Conan Part two, Arnold Schwarzenegger had been training
with guns. He had been training every day for a
month to prepare and he would practice taking them apart
and put them back together, to the point that he
could do it blindfolded like a machine. Yep. Perfect. And
he does such a good job that soldier of Fortune magazine,
who usually makes fun of people actors in the way
that they handle guns, actually complimented him and said he
looked like he really knew what he was doing.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's cool. Yeah, that's cool. Here's something I found interesting.
During the production of Conan the Destroyer, they interviewed Arnold
Schwarzenegger about his upcoming stuff, right, and he referred to
The Terminator as some movie I'm doing. It's going to
take a few weeks. He wasn't a big believer in
the project, which is crazy. Yeah, And however, he has
since recanted that and said it was wrong with me
to judge the movie before I was fully involved, and
James Cameron created a fantastic character. And while I was hesitant,
I now know The Terminator is a defining work in
my career. Okay, let's talk time travel for a second. Okay,
you ready for this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right.
Speaker 3: Here's the thing that is so cool about Terminator and
so difficult to understand. Okay, the rules of time travel. Okay,
all right, so here are the rules.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, are they the rules from Back to
the Future Bill and Ted or from Avengers Endgame? Okay?
Speaker 3: And I know there's tons of stuff on the internet
about this. We could talk all day about this, but
here's the gist. Okay. Sarah Connor as she's going through
her life boom, her life is invaded by this game,
and Kyle Reese and the Terminator have been sent from
the future one sent to Killer one Cent to protect her.
She has a romantic moment with her protector, Kyle Reese,
becomes pregnant with her son, who becomes John Connor. And
so you have this little interesting time loop, yes, where
John Connor since his friend Kyle reeves back to protect his.
Speaker 2: Mother, his dad, Kyle reesack.
Speaker 3: His dad who's also his friend. Yeah right, hey, go
back and nail my mom. So I can exist. But
how would he exist to do that if he hadn't
done that in.
Speaker 2: The first place. It's all the timeline, okay.
Speaker 3: And then also the events of Terminator, including the hand
that is reaching for Sarah Connor's throat and the chip
in his head that sets off a chain of events
that takes Miles Dyson down where he can then build
something like reverse Engineer in order to create Cyberdiine, which
then leads to Skynet, which then leads to the Terminators.
Speaker 2: Yep, it's I don't know. I don't try to explain it.
I just enjoy it. Okay, time travel is not an
actual thing right now that we know of Who's to say?
Speaker 3: Here's the other thing I want to talk about? Okay,
I got a couple buddes, Jeff Bulls and roumangoat and
we've talked about this many times. Okay, Kyle Reese when
he's at the police department, he's very clear, we both
went back in time, and once we did that, they
smashed the grid. Right, we had one. He makes the
whole case that is just him and me. There's no
going home, and there's nobody else coming through to help. Okay, Yeah,
well that's a great plot for part one. What happens
in part two?
Speaker 2: He was wrong?
Speaker 3: I guess it was wrong.
Speaker 2: It was wrong. I mean, well, how does he know
he left?
Speaker 3: Well? I guess so, yeah, And I think Terminator Genesis
addresses that, uh huh, like he went through and something
else happened that he didn't know about. But still, this
is why part three sucks so bad is because the
premise of part three is nothing. None of those events matters.
Judgment Day happens anyway.
Speaker 2: Uh huh?
Speaker 3: Which is that's complete bull crab. That's the whole thing
that Terminator two wrapped up for us.
Speaker 2: Why didn't you like Terminator Dark Fate?
Speaker 3: Oh, don't even get me started. I killed John Connor
in the first five minutes. Spoiler alert check that out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so beginning of the movie. Still early in
the movie, right, yeah, there's a message that like Linda
Hamilton's Sarah Connor gets a message on her machine that
the guy's breaking her date. By the way, side note,
side note, they have a lizard that's the most random
Pugsy Hugsy from the Adams Family Pugsly. The lizard doesn't
show up again. Is not a plot device. It's not
really cute and cuddly. What why why did they have
Why do they have the lizard?
Speaker 3: Good question? Okay, no idea.
Speaker 2: So anyway, while she's she's decided to stay home with
Pugsy because her date has been broken. Right voice on
the answering machine leaving her the message James Cameron.
Speaker 3: AhR, that's cool, nice all right. August twenty ninth, nineteen
ninety seven is Judgment Day. Okay, that's the day that
Skynett becomes self aware and launches his attack on the Russians.
The Russians then fireback of the US and we have
massive nuclear holocaust. Yes, this is the date we are
trying to avoid. Sarah makes the case that anybody not
wearing two million sunblock is going to have a really
bad day. Right, Okay, Yeah, you know what happened August
twenty ninth, nineteen ninety seven, Like in reality, In reality,
no Netflix is launched.
Speaker 2: Oh so Netflix.
Speaker 3: Is aim Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Okay. So you remember speaking of Fright Night versus Lost Boys,
You remember that both of those movies had an interesting
story where the guys went out and make up into
the regular world. Yeah, it's kind of freaking the same
thing happened in this movie. Arnold goes out to get
a bite at a restaurant and forgets that he's got
half of his face missing. Freaks out. Everybody has like
the missing eye and the exposed jawbone and the burned flesh,
and everybody at the restaurant doesn't want to eat anymore.
Speaker 3: That's great.
Speaker 2: Okay. So just again to kind of separate what's going
on plot wise from reality. While Terminator one is going on,
James Cameron is falling in love. Yeah, he is with
his producer, Gallien Hurd. Yeah, they get married, and then
of course they're divorced by the time that he two
rolls around. And then during T two he.
Speaker 3: Falls in love again with miss Linda Hamilton.
Speaker 2: Yes, well she's been working out.
Speaker 3: I love those viceps of years. Okay, So a couple
of little tidbits ione through out here real quick, okay.
From Terminator there's a really cool scene where Arnold jumps
through fire onto the hood of the car and punches
out the windshield yep. In that scene, he actually burns
his hair off, so his hairstyle changes yep, and his
eyebrows get burned off. He actually ensured his eyebrows with
Lloyd's of London in case they didn't grow back.
Speaker 2: Nice. This is why he wears sunglasses, by the way,
because why would a robot need sunglasses? He doesn't have
real flesh eyes, right.
Speaker 3: Right, Plus he has to go back to the apartment
take out one of his eyes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that also needs to be covered up.
Speaker 3: You don't one of the things we didn't really talk about.
Do you remember watching these movies in the theater or
at home or anything like that.
Speaker 2: So, truthfully, because Terminator it came out in eighty four,
so I was eight years old, I didn't sneak into
it like I snuck into risky business vacation and trading places,
and so I didn't get to see Terminator for a
long time. By the time T two came out, I
didn't really care because I wasn't a Terminator guy. So
it was years after these movies came out before I
finally rented them and watched them.
Speaker 3: Really okay, Yeah, So I discovered Terminator on HBO okay,
like a year after it had come out, and was
totally blown away. I watched this and I thought, man,
this is really cool. I actually read the novelization. Oh wow,
I mean, I was into it. So when T two
comes out in ninety one, we go opening nine.
Speaker 2: So it is important for our fans to know that
you are a James Cameron freak.
Speaker 3: Yes I am. I'm a super freak.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I am. You are a James Cameron super freak. Yes,
we started hanging out roughly two thousand and nine, I
started trying to get in shape. We started running. If
you want to hear our preview episodes, that's how like,
that's how this podcast came to be, was our runs.
And that was two thousand and nine. And there was
a movie that came out in two thousand and nine
called Avatar. Yeah, and that was the first movie you
and I ever saw that.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2: And we walked into that movie and it was full,
Like the entire theater was full. We had gotten the
three D movie thinking, okay, three D won't be as
many people, Oh my gosh, completely full except for like
a few seats on the very front row. And so
you and I watched Avatar three D glasses, having to
look from right to left just to get the full picture.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 2: And it was amazing.
Speaker 3: It was amazing. I love Avatar. I think it's an
incredible movie. Now here's the other thing. So when I
say I'm a James Cameron, super freaking I love all
of his stuff and I take a lot of craft
for this, all right. So I love Terminator. I love
Terminator too. I love Aliens, I love true lies, I
love the Abyss, and yes, I love Titanic. It is
a master at work. I unapologetically freaking love the movie Titanic.
Speaker 2: Okay, I just got to say this, And I may
have mentioned before, maybe I haven't. And I'm sure when
we cover Titanic, which I know that we will, we'll
probably do Forrest Gump Versus Titanic at some point in
the future. I've been in two fights in my life.
One of them was as a teenager with my dad,
which everybody goes through, right, and then the other one
was in the movie theater when I was watching the
movie Titanic for the second time. I had seen it
and I was like, oh, this is actually pretty durn good,
and so I brought my girlfriend with me to watch
it the second time. And then these guys come in
and start causing trouble. At the end of the movie.
They're like yelling and being rude, and everybody's yelling back
at them, finally yelling at them to get out, and
they start to leave the theater, and I think I'm
going to say this and just be kind of cool.
I'm like, I think I should go make sure that
they actually get out of here without getting somebody in
a fight and expecting my girlfriend to go, no, no,
it'll be okay. But she's like, yeah, I think you should.
I don't beat him upde okay, great, and so I go.
I'm at the top of the stairs. They're walking down
the stairs. Everything looks like it's going to be fine
until some guy in the middle row takes his giant, big,
gulf size drink and chunks it at these guys. It
smashes against the wall, splashes all over them. They of
course immediately turn around, head up the stairs and who's
who's waiting them? Who's waiting for them except mister I've
never been in a real fight in my life, but
I didn't. I couldn't let them know that.
Speaker 6: They're like, do you do that?
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, I didn't, but you're not
going to find out who did. And the fight was on.
The lasted for about fifteen seconds, rolled down the stairs,
wrestling with each other, pulled out into the hallway. Wow,
the police were there and they let me go back
and I got to finish the second time of fight Titanic.
Speaker 3: About that man. That is a cool story.
Speaker 2: There you go, Okay, So let's jump from production on
Terminator one and let's go over to T two. Okay, okay,
So massive iconic scene is the riverbed chase. Whatever the
h that's awesome, right, And you pointed this out to me,
and I was watching with Caleb because he's my guy
to watch movies with, right, right, So we're watching this
together and I'm listening, like you hear it's guns and
roses because Caleb knows rock, right, he knows guns and roses. Like,
oh okay, and I'm even point it out again. I'm
gonna look there it is again. This is you could
be mine by guns and roses. Again. He's like, okay, Dad,
I got it. And I'm like, are you watching? Are
you watching? And Arnold Schwarzenegger has the box of roses
and then it bursts open and it is a gun,
and I'm like, is he that is he that? He's
like yeah, yeah, like it was a gun in rows.
He's like, ah, I love it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is actually a really cool nod to guns
and roses.
Speaker 2: So that gun then comes into play during that big
chase sequence right where they're driving, and he's that's can
you imagine how difficult that was to do? The driving?
The motorcycle through the gates shooting the gun and he
has to do it like a robot. He like bruised
up his hands, tore the skin off his hands, hit
Edward Furlong in the head, but the gun almost knocked
him out once right, and it was all perfectly edited together,
so it looked like a genuine Terminator robot driving a
motorcycle chasing a semi and a little kid on a
third one.
Speaker 3: That scene is so incredible.
Speaker 2: I didn't get to go check this out, but I
seem to remember that when I watched it the first
time that I was like, Okay, I can see the
stuntman's face, like I recognized the stuntman as not Arnold Schwarzenegger.
When I watched it this time, I think they've seed
gi'ed it more. I think that because it looks like Arnold,
it does not look like somebody else anymore in any
parts of that.
Speaker 3: You know, one of the cool shots you mentioned that
scene that is super cool scene They had the motorcycle
and it's where Arnold has to jump the motorcycle from
up one level to down one level and it was
going to be about nine hundred pounds of force if
it just natural gravity happened, right, it would destroy the bike,
and so obviously they didn't want to do that. But
the suspension wires, Jim Cameron kind of rigged this up.
When you look at it, you're like, man, that landed
was some impact. So those wires held the weight a
little bit, but not entirely. So when he lands, he
like he has a good jolt, you know, and you think, well,
that looks really real.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not some crappy CGI shot. It's an actual
motorcycle landing on actual pavement.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And speaking about having to make changes on the fly,
the semi truck, it wasn't until they got it down
in the little riverbed area that they realized it was
too tall to go the overpass well, and so James
Cameron's like, well, let's just drive it through and cut
off the top.
Speaker 3: Take the roof off.
Speaker 2: And what an incredible scene comes about from that, And
that's the fire scene where the liquid metal terminator comes out.
Speaker 3: And that's really the time as the audience fe you're like, well,
this thing's really indestructible. Yeah, okay, so here here's a
funny story that I found. The motorcycle biker bar at
the beginning of the movie, right, do you have the
introduction of the Arnold character and he walks into the
biker bar and he's totally nude. Yeah, and I want
you to close your boots and your motorcycle.
Speaker 2: Right. I love that the girls are all just like
shocked and then interested, Oh my god, hell.
Speaker 3: Hey, what's up. In order to be funny, Arnold wore
these incredibly obnoxious swimsuit shorts. Yeah, and everybody's like, huh,
those are funny. There's a funny looking shorts. But apparently
they have all these lights and all these trucks and
all these movie cameras and everything. They said. One woman
wandered off the street watered into the bar and looked
around and was like, what's going on here? And Arnold said,
it's mail striper Knight. That biker bar is actually a
biker bar.
Speaker 2: Or was yeah, it's a library now, right.
Speaker 3: It's a library now. And it was located right across
the street from where Rodney King got his Oh yeah,
they were from the cops. Yeah, filming on the night
that had happened. What, Yes, they were filming on the
night that that happened. I don't know if it was
at the exact same time, but I mean they were
filming at the same time that the Rodney King incident
happened right across the stre Wow. Wow, one little tibbet
for you. When they showed this movie to Spanish speaking countries, Yes,
the Osta la Vista baby line, yes is changed too,
sayonara baby, which I sent this video to you? I
sent a video to you. I believe this is unverified,
but the US still live east A baby line comes
from a Jody Wattley song from nineteen eighty seven called
looking for a New Love. Okay, that song was very
popular and she says it many times in the song.
Speaker 2: Let's listens, Yeah, but later dick wad and if someone
gives upset, say chill out, or you can do combinations.
Speaker 3: Chill out, dick wad, No problem, no problem. Okay. Let's
talk about the deleted scenes really quick. Okay, Okay, Like aliens,
there are some deleted scenes that are really cool. We
already talked, I think in our last episode about where
the two one thousand actually kills the dog, the family dog. Right,
that was cut out, But there's a really interesting scene
when they hole up in that gas station. John says,
does your computer chip allow you to learn so you
can emulate human behavior better? And the terminator says, basically,
I have a chip, but you have to reprogram it
in order for that to happen. And so in order
to do that, they have to take a party's head
and they have to remove this tube. And it's a
really cool scene. So they have this practical effect where
you have a false Arnold Torso across from real Arnold Schwarzenegger.
It's supposed to be a mirror, but they're actually there's
no glass in between them. And then you have Linda
Hamilton working on the dummy who's across from Linda Hamilton's
twin sister, Leslie. So this is really cool scene. They
cut it out and you know, they easily explain it
by saying my own the terminator just learns. But it's
a really cool scene because when they remove the chip,
Sarah wants to destroy the chip and we don't need
this protector.
Speaker 2: We're better on our own.
Speaker 3: And that's when John actually leads in such a way
to say, no, we are taking this guy and he
is going to help.
Speaker 2: Us, right, pretty cool scene.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then at the end of the movie, the
T one thousand after he gets in the liquid nitrogen
blown up, he reforms, but he starts to glitch, so
his hand starts to not work properly in his feet
start to meld to the to the the grading a
little bit more right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and her twin sister comes up in that last
scene as well. Whenever whenever the T one thousand is
pretending to be Sarah Connor and then the real Sarah
Connor shows up. I mean I always just thought they've
done a double image double shot like you would normally
do when you were twentying somebody. But as you mentioned,
Linda Happleleton has an actual twin and that's who they used.
Speaker 3: It's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, gotta rest your soul. She passed away last year. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Which that's one of the only scenes in the
entire movie that I have a problem with. Okay, the
T one thousand is torturing Sarah, saying Caul.
Speaker 2: John, Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3: He would just rip her heart out emulate her, Yeah,
and pretend to be Sarah exactly.
Speaker 2: Oh and talking about you know, the glitchy part after
he has the liquid nitrogen thing, the way that they
actually filmed that scene is they got an amputee actor
to walk that part and have the limbs fall off.
Oh cool, then kind of merged it with Robert Patrick.
It's really an amazing bit of editing again that they
that they did.
Speaker 3: At the end of the movie when the T eight
hundred and T one thousand fight. Yeah, there's a scene
where Robert Patrick's character has to use a poll to
hit the terminator.
Speaker 4: Right, yes, yeah, So they had a false arm and
he was supposed to hit a certain spot and he
did it and Roberts like, crap, I missed the mark
and I whacked him right, and he said, Arnold didn't
cry out, he didn't do anything when they said.
Speaker 3: Cut, Arnold said, Roberts, that was my real arm. One
other scene that was filmed but didn't make it to
the final movie was this alternate ending where Sarah is
a grandmother. She's at that same park that gets blown
up by the nuclear black and John is a senator.
Speaker 2: And have that got to have the sequels that sued. Okay,
let's talk real quick about special effects. Okay, we mentioned
Stan Winston in our Aliens Versus Alien podcast from before, right, right,
So what's interesting is Stan Winston's first really big movie
as a special effects guy was Terminator, Right. He had
done some other prosthetics stuff, like if you've ever seen
Little Big Man with Dustin Hoffman, there's a part where
he's really that was stan Winston who did that, right. Okay,
So when Terminator got greenlit, James Cameron wanted Dick Smith
to come in and do the special effects, and Dick
Smith was like, thank you, but no, you should hire
mister stan Winston. And so Terminator was stan Winston's first
really big special effects movie. And then he of course
comes back for Terminator too, right, And in addition to
all the prosthetics that he got to do with this one,
he also has that nuclear apocalypse scene where she's dreaming
and you know, she's seeing herself on the playground with
Little John and she's trying to save everybody screaming from
the fence and then the nuclear holl house, and they
like made miniatures. They used shredded wheat and all this
other stuff to make it. And it was like when
I saw it, I was like, I feel like they
took real footage from like back in the mid twentieth
century and you but no, this was stuff that they
all just created themselves and then they had the people
burn like paper. And Stan Winston says, of all of
the special effects he's done in all of the horror
movies that he's been a part of, that scene was
the most unsettling to him.
Speaker 3: That's really good.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're ready to talk soundtrack.
Speaker 3: Let's talk soundtrack.
Speaker 2: Okay, both scores are iconic, right, yes, no question, right,
and a major part of the movie, yes, for sure.
But once again, with the Terminator, you have a composer
that had never done a movie before. Wow. Right, So
we've talked about this guy before, talked about him on
Fright Night. Right, he's the guy who did the soundtrack
Fright Night. But Fright Night was after terminating, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: And she's the one who did come to me?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, your story about hey, yeah, is this Brad Fidel? Yes,
you know that song come to Me? Yeah, you have
a longer version.
Speaker 3: My boyfriend and I really love that song.
Speaker 2: Just have to play it.
Speaker 3: That's such a great story.
Speaker 2: So Brad Fidel, Right, we've got strong synthesizer music. Brad
Fidel was actually this lady named Beth Donahue. She was
an agent and she heard that James Cameron was working
on Terminator, and so she sends him a cassette tape
of Fidel's music, and Cameron and Herd were both just
kind of meh on it. Meh yeah, and he says
Brad Fidel says, I showed them an experimental piece that
I've been working on, and I said, you know what,
I'm going to play this for him because it's really
dark and I think it's interesting for him. And it
was that dark experimental piece that got him the part
of composer for this movie.
Speaker 3: I think they even take it up a notch and
Terminator too.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure, you.
Speaker 3: Have the you have more strings, you have more power.
But he has that hammer sound, right, yeah, and it's
really prominent. But that hammer was him banging his cast
iron skillet. He's like, people thought it was this big
anvil or some orchestral instrument. He's like, it was my
one that I actually cook in. Bang bang, All right.
Speaker 2: So Terminator is finished. They release it. Yes, it does
pretty well on its opening weekend, makes four million dollars,
I believe, which is I mean, that's three quarters of
the budget, so that's not bad. But then o'rian pulls
the marketing budget. James camer and Gale Herd are like,
what the crap? What are we just don't we think
this is a word of mouth kind of movie. They're like, guys,
it's blowing it up in the theater, why would you
do this? And they're they're just like, noll, we just
don't feel like it's worth the money. They're like, it's
five thousand dollars for a full page add and variety
of magazine. It will make us millions because you just
do it, and they don't. Yeah, it's insane, And so
it doesn't do as well as it potentially could have, right,
but it still becomes a cult classic. Like the fans
absolutely swarm it. Word of mouth actually works out.
Speaker 3: It was number one at the box office for two weeks.
Now keep in mind this is October. Terminator one was
released October twenty sixth of nineteen eighty four, so it's
kind of in that gap before Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2: You know, nobody's watching Mary lou Rettin on the Olympics.
Speaker 3: But here's the deal. So it was number one for
two weeks. It was knocked out by Oh God, you devil? Wow?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 3: How about that? All right? So reception for Terminator two
a little different.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, let's say for Terminator one, it was at
least good enough to get him the director job for
Aliens R.
Speaker 3: Yes, and it was a hit. Oh yeah, I mean
and number one at the box office. That's a hit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And Aliens gets nominated for several Oscars, but Terminator
got nominated for nothing. Right right now, Terminator two gets
released and it gets nominated. It is the only movie
in the twentieth century where the sequel got nominated for
Oscars where the original didn't.
Speaker 3: Oh, very interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there have only been a couple more since then.
It was a Born Out, Ultimatum and Mad Max Fairy Road. Yeah,
those got nominated, but it's the only one from the
twentieth century that happened with.
Speaker 3: Very interesting. This was the highest grossing movie of nineteen
ninety one. It was the first film to break the
US three hundred million dollar mark.
Speaker 2: You, I would say it was the pinnacle of his
movie career. I would say that T two was the pinnacle.
He's made a couple of good movies since then, but
they weren't as No, this is the pinnacle, right and
he was the star of the day, like from eighty
two when Conan came out. He is rising star, getting
more and more famous, more and more money, are better
and better pictures, And then T two happens, and then
we get True Lies, which was okay, and some other
stuff that just wasn't that great. Last Action Hero, which.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, Last Action Hero is terrible. True Lies is great.
I'm gonna defend True Lies. But adjusted for inflation, this
is the highest grossing R rated movie of all time. Okay,
so it was a huge success, right despite its hundred
million dollar budget, it made over five hundred million dollars, massive,
massive hit.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Final Judgment, It's Judgment day, d Okay, where are you?
Speaker 2: There is no question in the scenario. There's just no question.
And I'm sorry. I did flip flop on Alien Aliens. Yes,
I started off loving Aliens more and then landed on
Alien three. But when you compare Terminator, which is a
great movie on a six million dollar budget, with Terminator two,
which is a great movie on a one hundred million
dollar budget, yes, there can be no comparison. It is
far and away a better movie. It is better acted,
better produced, better soundtrack, storyline is better. I love that
they took the guy that was the villain and made
him the hero. And nobody knew until they walked into
the theater that day. None of the previews gave it
away you walked in. I mean, you think about that,
when you're watching T two and you're seeing everything that's
going on, you would be fooled. You would be thinking,
wait a minute, the skinny guy, the little skinny guy
is a cop. He's the cop. He's the good guy.
He's going to help and Arnold, the previous Terminator. He's
about to get him. He's about to get John Connor.
And he does. And wait a minute, he's saving him.
He's not killing him, he's saving him. That is the
plot twist from the first movie than the first thirty
minutes of the second movie. Loved It. T two wins
the day, no question. Spiking the foot, spiking the football.
Speaker 3: All right, that's interesting. Here's where I come down. Terminator
like Alien, is one of the most effective horror movies.
Speaker 2: Of all time.
Speaker 3: You have an unkillable killing machine, a nightmare that is
stalking you. I love the Kyle Reeves character. I love
how you think you've killed it and it resurrects from
the pile and you have that cool stop motion robot
who's coming after you. But like you said, the effects
of T two way better. The acting is more intense,
there's more terminators, there's more guns. Everything about T two
is up a notch. Now does that make it a
better movie? In this case, the answer is yes it does.
T two is better than T one.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love Termain, I love Terminator two more. Plus you
throw in the guns and roses thing. The coolness factor
was through the roof that summer of ninety one. This
was the movie.
Speaker 2: Keep in mind nineteen ninety one that fall that is
when Use Your Illusion one and two comes out.
Speaker 3: This was our sneak peek at Use Your Illusion one
and two. I'm spiking the football Terminator two better movie.
Here's what our friends from a Film Buy had to
say about T one and T two. Hey, d Jason,
this is Jeff Johnson and this is Brad Kozo and
we're from a Film By podcast. We were excited to
hear about.
Speaker 5: Your Terminator versus Terminator two episode and we wanted a
chance to weigh in. Brad, what do you think?
Speaker 6: Two great movies directed by a great director. But when
it comes down to it. One film is a timeless
science fiction raw masterpiece, and the other one is a
really good Hollywood blockbuster. There's just something about that first
film that makes it feel so raw and angry. I'm
I mean, it's First Blood, Mad Max, Halloween Escape from
New York like All in one in this Orwellian dystopian nightmare.
Both films are so good, but I gotta go Terminator
the original.
Speaker 3: How about you, Jeff Brad.
Speaker 5: My cpu has a Neurnet processor. It's a learning computer,
and I have learned over the years that no amount
of CGI, big explosions or guns n' roses can beat
out a great story. It's the love story that's hidden
in all this sci fi and horror and action. That
is the Terminator. At the end of the day, a
soldier went after the girl and he completed his mission.
So I love Terminator two Judgment Day. I've always loved it.
I will still love it. But it's got to be
the Terminator.
Speaker 6: Ah, I didn't know if you would go with that one.
Curious to see what d and j Son are gonna say, though.
Speaker 5: Well, let's find out. Listen, guys, we appreciate uh. Letting
us chime in and we look forward to hearing what
you say.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 3: Okay, well there you go.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's awesome. Guys. Hey, if you haven't checked out
a Film by podcast, be sure and go over there.
Subscribe to those guys. They take movies by directors that
aren't their most famous movie, but maybe their highest quality movie,
and they do such a fantastic job with them.
Speaker 3: Every time I listen to their episode, I'm adding movies
to my cue.
Speaker 2: Absolutely a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks guys, a Film by podcast.
Speaker 2: And on that note, don't forget to subscribe to our
podcast if you haven't already, hit us up on Twitter,
hit us up on Facebook, Come and be an executive
producer on our Patreon page.
Speaker 3: Before we wrap this up, I've got one more question
for you. Rank Alien Aliens Terminator T two. Yeah, so
this is this is this is final judgment for podcasts. Okay, ready, yep,
Alien Aliens T two, Terminator WHOA really?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 3: Here's how I'm ranking these four movies. Number one Aliens okay,
Number two Terminator two okay, Number three Terminator right, and
number four Alien Wow? Yeah a distant or distant fourth,
distant fourth.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call up Ridley Scott and telling you.
Speaker 3: So many fire up guns and roses, we are out
of here. Terminator one, Terminator two.
Speaker 2: H