Speaker 1: Sometimes in life you're wronged by those who are closest
Speaker 1: to you, or the ones you would least expect. In
Speaker 1: the case of the Krim Family murders, it comes from
Speaker 1: a source they would least expect, from a person they
Speaker 1: led in their home and their children loved. But all
Speaker 1: it took was one day for this person to be
Speaker 1: pushed too far, and it all ended in an absolute bloodbath.
Speaker 1: This is the story of the Krim Family murders.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
Speaker 2: and Grim.
Speaker 1: A true crime podcast. The following podcast material intended for
Speaker 1: a mature audience. Listener discretion advice. How do I look?
Speaker 1: Do I look good enough for the podcast? Right now?
Speaker 2: I think so?
Speaker 1: I think so.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I look at your fancy glasses. Finally, after speak
Speaker 2: talking about this for like probably two years, I bet
Speaker 2: you fair enough.
Speaker 1: Fair enough. But I am now thirty six years old
Speaker 1: and I officially have dork vision.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: What.
Speaker 2: No, I think glasses can be like. I feel like
Speaker 2: they can be pretty like. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't see stylish.
Speaker 2: It's dorkish. I think it's almost like sophisticated.
Speaker 1: No, I have nothing against glasses. Absolutely nothing, but it's
Speaker 1: just fun to call it dork vision. I guess it's
Speaker 1: not like I'm actually going to go up to someone
Speaker 1: wearing glasses. Are you nice glasses? Dork? No, It's just
Speaker 1: something to just joke about because I'm wearing them. You know.
Speaker 2: I also got new glasses, but I already wore glasses,
Speaker 2: so I don't think this anyone would ever notice.
Speaker 1: So you're still a door.
Speaker 2: Probably more so because my uh prescription actually went up
Speaker 2: like big time.
Speaker 1: Yeah you needed this, Yeah, so where's me? I mean,
Speaker 1: I needed it too, but my prescription's pretty low.
Speaker 2: I was getting like little headaches and I kind of
Speaker 2: think it was to do with that, just because I
Speaker 2: was kind of straining. But also I am apparently so
Speaker 2: sore of my glasses all the time, and I maybe
Speaker 2: wore them, Like what would you say, Well, I have
Speaker 2: five percent of the day. Oh, yes, five percent, because
Speaker 2: they wear them when I'm working.
Speaker 1: Barely half the time. You're halfway through working, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I need my glasses.
Speaker 2: No, No, when I'm on the computer, I'm always wearing them.
Speaker 2: A larky but anyway, so yeah, now I'm trying to
Speaker 2: wear them, you know, a lot more and it's actually helping.
Speaker 1: That's good.
Speaker 2: Imagine that.
Speaker 1: That's good. I didn't have the glasses or you didn't
Speaker 1: have your new glasses for a two hundredth episode, which
Speaker 1: would have been nice dimly lit, you know, brewery reading
Speaker 1: the laptop was not the easyest thing.
Speaker 2: But hey, it was still wicked and you did good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was wicked and it was.
Speaker 2: Grim, yeah, very much.
Speaker 1: So if you guys haven't listened to it, it did
Speaker 1: come out. It's our two hundredth episode. The video will
Speaker 1: be coming out on YouTube here in the coming days.
Speaker 1: We got to do a bit of catch up on
Speaker 1: that first. But yeah, with this two hundredth episode occurring,
Speaker 1: the live version of it, this officially marks us doing
Speaker 1: an episode every Tuesday and every Friday, So we are
Speaker 1: officially two times a week here over in Wicked and Grim.
Speaker 2: Now yeah, wild wild, And I just wanted to say too,
Speaker 2: it's like a thank you to everyone that came to
Speaker 2: our live We were pretty blown away. It was a bit,
Speaker 2: i don't know, intimidating, yeah, but it was also just
Speaker 2: like anxiety. It just like warmed your heart a little
Speaker 2: though terrifying. Oh my gosh, because I remember at one point,
Speaker 2: I can't remember. I think we were getting door price
Speaker 2: tickets ready or something, and you were like you were
Speaker 2: like make sure you take like a look around or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because it was like really cool, really really cool.
Speaker 1: Was a packed house. People were there to support us,
Speaker 1: to listen to the show, and then we also had
Speaker 1: our Patreon live stream going, which had a bunch of
Speaker 1: people in that too. Our audio for that was a
Speaker 1: little bit terrible, so we've got to figure out a
Speaker 1: solution for that in the future.
Speaker 2: But yeah, well, and I think we might try to
Speaker 2: do a couple of live Patreon shows too at some point. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think so in the coming months.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had fun doing that, so I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: well we'll start doing some more live Patreon only stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because why not.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because we're always we're we want to include
Speaker 2: you in these live events locally and stuff. But then
Speaker 2: it'd be neat to have one just specific and you
Speaker 2: know all of our attentions to.
Speaker 1: That and exactly we've done some in the past, but
Speaker 1: I think we need to do more regularly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it'd be fun. So you're ready for
Speaker 2: this case today, Well, don't we have some patrons today?
Speaker 1: Oh? Right? We were just talking about Patreon, So my bad.
Speaker 2: We once Nicole has her shit together and Ben doesn't.
Speaker 2: Apparently I should just note too, I'm supposed to be
Speaker 2: doing this episode, but we're we're doing my episode on Friday. Now.
Speaker 2: It's like ninety five percent done.
Speaker 1: Well right when we hit record on this, You're like,
Speaker 1: I got like an hour left right now, search, but
Speaker 1: mine's done, so I might as well just do mine
Speaker 1: and then yours can be for a Friday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 1: So what is happening?
Speaker 2: It is happening. Yeah, yeah, and it's a doozy of
Speaker 2: a case, which yours kind of sounds like it is
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I do know someone out there, Larissa is
Speaker 1: specifically I wouldn't say looking forward to this case, but
Speaker 1: has cursed you out on social media or that. I know.
Speaker 2: I meant to respond to that, but yeah, Larissa, it
Speaker 2: is that one. So prepare yourself if you can.
Speaker 1: But yeah, anyways, we got to thank some Patreon subscribers,
Speaker 1: So thank you to Denise, Samantha Gutsky, Haley, I'm probably
Speaker 1: gonna butcher your name, but I'm gonna give it my
Speaker 1: best shot here, Hailey Sinkwicks and zach Rice nice, thank
Speaker 1: you very much for sending to Patreon.
Speaker 2: We appreciate that so freaking much. We do.
Speaker 1: You guys are incredible, even though I might have forgot
Speaker 1: to thank you this week if it wasn't for Nicole.
Speaker 1: So thank you for Nicole for reminding me as well.
Speaker 2: Oh that's okay, we forgive you.
Speaker 1: Thank you appreciate it. Okay, So this is the Krim
Speaker 1: Family murders. And shout out to a friend, Darcy overhead
Speaker 1: at Crimson Down Collective, for recommending this case to me.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: I was talking to her. She said, oh, should look
Speaker 1: into this one, and I was like, oh, yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: probably do that one soon. And then I read an
Speaker 1: article about it and I'm like, I think I'm going
Speaker 1: to do it real soon. So here we are. Hey, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so today we talk about not only the Krim Family murders,
Speaker 1: but a story of an individual named Joscelin or Tega. Okay, so,
Speaker 1: Yoscelin was born in the Dominican Republic on May first
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two. Her family was not a small one,
Speaker 1: and it was one of you know, eight children, So
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a bustle in home, right her
Speaker 1: parents owned a owned a grocery store where the children
Speaker 1: helped at a young age, which is a typical practice
Speaker 1: for many people and families in that era. You know,
Speaker 1: like the kids working on the farm. You know, we've
Speaker 1: got to have more kids, we have more hands working
Speaker 1: around crops and whatever sort of mindset. But that's besides
Speaker 1: the point. So because of their successful business, their family
Speaker 1: was living a life that was fairly comfortable as far
Speaker 1: as local standards go. And Jocelyn's life, however, would take
Speaker 1: a different and dramatic shift at the age of sixteen,
Speaker 1: and this was when her twelve year old sister Rosa
Speaker 1: died unexpectedly from her brain.
Speaker 2: Aneurysm Oh jeez.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So when she looked back on her life in
Speaker 1: her later years, it was clear to see that this
Speaker 1: tragic event was the beginning of her struggles with depression.
Speaker 1: Like many who suffer from depression, Joslin became reclusive and
Speaker 1: shut out to many of those who were close to her,
Speaker 1: and she did so for probably about a year at least.
Speaker 1: She began experiencing persistent headaches that came along with it. Now,
Speaker 1: as if dealing with depression wasn't quite enough, these headaches
Speaker 1: seemed to bring along an even darker aspect with it.
Speaker 1: During this time, she also started hearing voices. These voices
Speaker 1: were things of absolute nightmares, and she said that they
Speaker 1: would urge her to hurt herself, and not only herself,
Speaker 1: but also those around her as well. Oh, my friends
Speaker 1: or family or whoever's in the home or who she's with.
Speaker 2: That's terrifying for both her and others.
Speaker 1: No kidding. Yeah, Now, despite what they were saying to her, though,
Speaker 1: she consistently was able to resist listening to them, doing
Speaker 1: her best to ignore and brush them off. But it
Speaker 1: wasn't easy. They were very persistent. They nagged, and they
Speaker 1: would describe sorry, and she would describe the voices as
Speaker 1: external to her mind, which basically means that these voices
Speaker 1: aren't like in her head. She could actually hear them
Speaker 1: like audibly, like talking to her okay, which is I
Speaker 1: think scarier if you ask me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's terrifying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no kidding, And they would actually often get loud
Speaker 1: enough to wake her up at night and even prevent
Speaker 1: her from sleeping at times.
Speaker 2: Oh man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this was not a good thing that she
Speaker 1: was going through. Yeah, but she was consistently just doing
Speaker 1: her best to ignore them whenever she.
Speaker 2: Could, and probably I mean, I'm doing this more so alone,
Speaker 2: right I'm assuming.
Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, there's not a whole lot of discussion or
Speaker 1: talks about this.
Speaker 2: Back then and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean like back then. It's not only
Speaker 1: back then, but it's also in the Dominican Republic too, Right,
Speaker 1: mental health conditions were heavily stigmatized at that time in
Speaker 1: the sixties, but also over in the Dominican Republic. It
Speaker 1: wasn't really something that people really took seriously having in
Speaker 1: all honesty, probably for not even since like the last
Speaker 1: couple decades, was it really something that people were like, hey,
Speaker 1: we should actually maybe maintain look into andreap this sort
Speaker 1: of shit and take I mean, honestly, it's.
Speaker 2: Come so far, but it still needs to come further
Speaker 2: in that Like, I mean, people are afraid to talk
Speaker 2: about it. It's talked about a lot more, but it
Speaker 2: could be talked about even.
Speaker 1: More, I think definitely. But for you also, and though
Speaker 1: she was afraid a lot of repercussions would come towards
Speaker 1: her for if she were to talk about this, for
Speaker 1: being labeled loco quote unquote or crazy, right, so she
Speaker 1: kept all of this to herself, never speaking about it
Speaker 1: and not seeking any help. Now, despite her struggles and
Speaker 1: hiding what she was enduring, she persisted in life. In
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five, she was she completed a degree in
Speaker 1: accounting and relocated to the Big Apple Okay, Old New
Speaker 1: York City. That's impressive, it is. And when she moved there,
Speaker 1: one of her sisters had already made the move there
Speaker 1: as well and was living there, and it made it
Speaker 1: a lot easier for her to make that transition to
Speaker 1: live with her sister. Right, And so her life was
Speaker 1: now going well in this new country. And by nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety five, Joscelyn was married and gave birth to a
Speaker 1: beautiful baby boy she named Jesus.
Speaker 2: Wow Okay okay.
Speaker 1: Now. Despite the new life, her marriage, though, was unstable
Speaker 1: and eventually ended in divorce a few years later in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, which prompted her to move to the
Speaker 1: Dominican Republic to continue to raise her son. Now, she
Speaker 1: did yearn for what she had experienced in the USA.
Speaker 1: In New York. She loved it, She wanted that, and
Speaker 1: she knew that there was more opportunity there, and she
Speaker 1: knew that there was more financial prospects to potentially raise
Speaker 1: her son and support her son. So she moved back
Speaker 1: to the States and made the very difficult decision of
Speaker 1: leaving her son in the care with her sister while
Speaker 1: she did go back to New York. Oh okay, Also,
Speaker 1: my mic is like sliding down here. Okay, I think
Speaker 1: my mic is tightened up and a get good enough.
Speaker 2: You got your shit together.
Speaker 1: Again, I think so, I hope.
Speaker 2: So maybe I'll just sit here and watch it slide more.
Speaker 1: Maybe. Anyways, where did I leave off here?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: I was totally distrussed.
Speaker 2: I just left her kid with her sister.
Speaker 1: Oh right, So yeah, she left her her son Jesus
Speaker 1: with her sister and she moved back to New York.
Speaker 1: So her son is in the Dominican Republic when she
Speaker 1: goes back to the United States. So now in the
Speaker 1: big city, she worked various jobs in factories as a cleaner,
Speaker 1: and even officially became a US citizen in the year
Speaker 1: two thousand and four. Throughout this time, she maintained close
Speaker 1: contact with her son, even ensuring to visit him several
Speaker 1: times on a yearly basis. Awesome, so she's consistently going back,
Speaker 1: she's sending money. You know she's going to see him.
Speaker 1: She's still a part of his life. It's not like
Speaker 1: she's like, see you later. It's more of a I'm
Speaker 1: doing this for you, for the family, for better life
Speaker 1: sort of situation, and she'll take advantage when she can
Speaker 1: to ensure that she's still there now. Even though this
Speaker 1: was all going on, she was living the life she
Speaker 1: wanted to in New York City. Jocelyn's depression would follow her,
Speaker 1: and in two thousand and eight, a close friend of
Speaker 1: hers ended his life by suicide on the balcony of
Speaker 1: her child home back in the Dominican Republic.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, it hit her hard, yeah.
Speaker 1: And it plunged her into another deep depression. She moved
Speaker 1: back to her home and became overly protective of her
Speaker 1: son at this time and did everything she could to
Speaker 1: ensure she'd or that he didn't the house except only
Speaker 1: for school. Yoslyn continued to hear these voices too, and
Speaker 1: they were consistently telling her to stay indoors as a
Speaker 1: condition worsened. Worsened, her sister took over caring for their son,
Speaker 1: and Yocelyn once again returned to New York. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's a bit of back and forth, trying to
Speaker 1: figure figure things out for her. Now, eventually, Yocelin would
Speaker 1: meet the Krim family, which is where this case truly begins.
Speaker 1: Kevin Krim was a former athlete and Harvard graduate and
Speaker 1: Marina Krim, a University of Southern California graduate and entrepreneur. Now,
Speaker 1: they first cross paths at a restaurant in Venice Beach,
Speaker 1: which is like picture perfect for like a romantic relationship
Speaker 1: if you're thinking like a Hollywood story, right, yeah, like
Speaker 1: we have a Harvard graduate and an entrepreneur meeting in
Speaker 1: Venice Beach.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like hand me the romance novel, now right.
Speaker 1: They did get married in two thousand and three, and
Speaker 1: they would have a daughter named Lucia, and in two
Speaker 1: thousand and six they had their second child, they named
Speaker 1: NeSSI in so sorry, they had their daughter in two
Speaker 1: thousand and six. Lucy out in two thousand and six
Speaker 1: and NeSSI in two thousand and nine. Okay, so three
Speaker 1: years apart for those two.
Speaker 2: Both both girls. Sorry ah, yes, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, the family moved to New York in twenty ten
Speaker 1: for Kevin's job as a CNBC Digital media executive. Together,
Speaker 1: the family moved to a picturesque neighborhood in Manhattan, just
Speaker 1: a block away from Central Park. This area is quite
Speaker 1: upscale and known for its very expensive apartments, like extremely
Speaker 1: expensive apartments, and Kevin had a very demanding job, so
Speaker 1: living here in this area it required him to frequently travel,
Speaker 1: which left Marina to be one of to be the one,
Speaker 1: you know, at home really taking care of their kids. Now,
Speaker 1: Lucia and Nessie were solo with mom. But that wasn't
Speaker 1: just to say that, you know, Marina was a stay
Speaker 1: at home mom. She also taught art classes part time
Speaker 1: and had a blog for their family where she could
Speaker 1: actually document and write about their adventures together. And that
Speaker 1: blog was called Life with the Little crim Kids.
Speaker 2: Oh that's super cute.
Speaker 1: It is. So she put a lot of effort into this,
Speaker 1: really documenting things, and I think it's something for like,
Speaker 1: of course blogs are for other people to read, but
Speaker 1: I also think it's.
Speaker 2: Kind of like it was an outlet for her.
Speaker 1: It was, and it's something that you can look back
Speaker 1: on as your kids are growing up. It's like it's
Speaker 1: almost like a family album or a journal or something
Speaker 1: like that, you know, So it props to her for
Speaker 1: doing that. Now, their life was going good, and they
Speaker 1: were very busy too, but they both worked and they
Speaker 1: had that family life. And now they were expecting a
Speaker 1: third kid. Oh ding dang, so things were getting even
Speaker 1: busier from them. It was in twenty ten when Marina,
Speaker 1: while pregnant, met with a woman named Celia had a
Speaker 1: dance studio, and that dance studio is when she was
Speaker 1: dropping off one of her children. Now, Celia, who worked
Speaker 1: as a nanny for another family, saw Marina and noticed
Speaker 1: that she was juggling to kids while expecting a third
Speaker 1: and she looked very tired and honestly a little bit overwhelmed.
Speaker 1: So she approached her and struck up a conversation about childcare.
Speaker 1: They talked for a while and Celia recommended her sister, Jocelin. Now.
Speaker 1: She said that if you're thinking about hiring someone for
Speaker 1: a nanny position, she would be a great fit. Marina
Speaker 1: was delighted and they asked, you know, Celia to send
Speaker 1: over Yocelin's resume. So later the Crims received an email
Speaker 1: with the resume and a reference later that week. Now,
Speaker 1: the reference was from a family who Yocelyn had previously
Speaker 1: worked with, and it painted her as an experienced and
Speaker 1: reliable nanny. However, the problem here was the reference was fake.
Speaker 1: It wasn't written by a family who she had worked
Speaker 1: for in the past. In fact, Joscelyn had never even
Speaker 1: worked as a nanny before. The reference was written by
Speaker 1: Jocelyn's niece who didn't even have any kids. Oh boy,
Speaker 1: so she's kind of like fake in the resume sort
Speaker 1: of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's uh scary. It definitely is also kind
Speaker 2: of easy to do. Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Kevin and Marina decided to interview Yoscelyn after
Speaker 1: reading through her resume and reference. She sounded great and
Speaker 1: the interview went well. Despite her lack of experience, they
Speaker 1: were unaware that she, you know, didn't work in childcare.
Speaker 1: She was able to get through the interview, you know,
Speaker 1: tell them the right things or what she would do.
Speaker 1: By all accounts, it seemed like she knew what she
Speaker 1: was doing. Yoscelyn impressed them, which led them to hire
Speaker 1: her as a part time nanny for the family. Now,
Speaker 1: her duties primarily involved picking up and dropping off the
Speaker 1: children from various places like school or other activities. She
Speaker 1: worked twenty five hours a week for eighteen dollars an hour,
Speaker 1: which was paid in cash. Which meant, you know, definitely
Speaker 1: evading that tax right, which is very helpful.
Speaker 2: Makes it seem like a bit more.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And for reference, the minimum wage at the time
Speaker 1: in New York was seven dollars and twenty five cents,
Speaker 1: so she was making pretty discent money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well over.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yostly was and excited and expressed a lot
Speaker 1: of gratitude for the job and even in the ways
Speaker 1: that the crims had treated her. So the crims were
Speaker 1: happy she was doing a good job, and she was
Speaker 1: happy because you know, she was like they almost began
Speaker 1: to treat her as if she was a part of
Speaker 1: the family too, which I think can happen lots of
Speaker 1: times with nanny positions.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they often, you know, they gave her gifts
Speaker 1: with like nice gifts too, like an Ann Taylor jacket
Speaker 1: for example, And they even paid for plane tickets for
Speaker 1: her to go back to the Dominican Republic to visit
Speaker 1: her family and her son.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, oh that warms my heart. That's awesome.
Speaker 1: So soon Marina gave birth to the third child, who
Speaker 1: was a little boy they named Leo. He was a
Speaker 1: happy little boy who was enjoying life and seemed to
Speaker 1: grow up so fast in front of their eyes. And
Speaker 1: even as he grew up, there were some notes about
Speaker 1: him like even having like pine comb collections and stuff
Speaker 1: as like a toddler, like little things like that. Right,
Speaker 1: And so in February of twenty twelve, the Krim family
Speaker 1: decided that instead of paying for y'all sin to visit
Speaker 1: her family, you know, another one of her trips over
Speaker 1: to the Dominican, they would instead travel along with her
Speaker 1: to go meet her family and covered all the expenses.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, okay, So.
Speaker 1: They're like, you know what, you're not going alone. We're
Speaker 1: gonna go with you. It'll be a nice, you know,
Speaker 1: opportunity for us to get to know you, get to
Speaker 1: know your family, our kids meet your son. You know.
Speaker 1: It's a major bonding experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So together, they all seem so happy, and they
Speaker 1: meshed really well. The Crim children were particularly fond of
Speaker 1: yocelin Leo even reportedly sometimes had trouble sleeping without her beside.
Speaker 2: Him, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: And Lucia often drew pictures of her, you know, like
Speaker 1: being part of the family. It was a cohesive and
Speaker 1: I mean they're not blood family, but they were family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like it doesn't have to be blood
Speaker 2: to be family. There's chosen family and stuff sometimes is
Speaker 2: a bigger deal right now.
Speaker 1: The Austlin's family even jokingly remarked that she had four children,
Speaker 1: not just one, because of the deep bond with you know,
Speaker 1: the Krim kids. Yoscelin's son Hazeus, would at times visit
Speaker 1: New York as well as he was getting a little
Speaker 1: bit older, and the Crims treated him just as well
Speaker 1: as they would Yostlin. They gifted him an iPad and
Speaker 1: later paid him to do some dog sitting while they
Speaker 1: were away, and allowed him to stay at their home
Speaker 1: and you know, sleep in the beds in their house.
Speaker 1: Kevin talked to Hazeus and encouraged him about his future
Speaker 1: and even in sports. Hazeus appreciated Kevin, even quoting him
Speaker 1: later on to say, quote, he was a very busy man,
Speaker 1: but he made time to talk to me and I
Speaker 1: valued that.
Speaker 2: Oh man, Okay, this is just like this is so nice.
Speaker 1: It is. It's very heartwarming, this whole situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, there was a bit of a life shift for Yoscelin, though.
Speaker 1: In April of twenty twelve, she had a bit of
Speaker 1: a falling out with her sister which led her to
Speaker 1: be on her own and she was looking for an
Speaker 1: apartment by herself. Now, she was thrilled to be moving
Speaker 1: out of the place that she had lived in for
Speaker 1: nearly thirty years at this point, and she found an
Speaker 1: apartment in the Bronx. So thirty years she's been, like,
Speaker 1: you know, staying in the same apartment with her sister
Speaker 1: in New York. So she's been here for a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And by June of that same year, her son even
Speaker 1: moved from the Dominican to join her mother in her
Speaker 1: new place as well, sorry, join.
Speaker 2: His mother his mother. Yeah wow.
Speaker 1: Joscelyn felt confident she was able to provide a comfortable
Speaker 1: living space for him and even planned for him to
Speaker 1: complete high school in the US. Unfortunately, though, the public
Speaker 1: school system required him to repeat the eleventh grade, which
Speaker 1: was a serious unfortunate setback for the young man, and
Speaker 1: Joscelyn decided to make the tough choice to enroll him
Speaker 1: in private school instead so he wouldn't have to complete
Speaker 1: the eleventh grade again and just go on for his
Speaker 1: final year. And this cost was a total of seven
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: Oh wow. That's quite a bit, hey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So for the first time in her life, Joscelyn
Speaker 1: had a sole responsibility for Jesus, and it started off
Speaker 1: with a bang signing up for this private school. And
Speaker 1: it didn't take long for her new life to change
Speaker 1: her financial situation, as it quickly became very strained between rent,
Speaker 1: living expenses, supporting herself, her seventeen year old son, the
Speaker 1: debt of paying off the private school m she began
Speaker 1: to struggle quite a bit, and eventually she made the
Speaker 1: difficult decision to give up her apartment and move back
Speaker 1: in with her sister. So she lost that independence right now.
Speaker 1: Though I'm not exactly certain who was living in the
Speaker 1: apartment now, there were a total of five individuals living
Speaker 1: in this three bedroom space. The apartment was described as
Speaker 1: overcrowded in a stressful environment, and Yaucelyn was upset about
Speaker 1: losing that independence. I think it was a real big
Speaker 1: knock to, you know, her pride. She was going to
Speaker 1: provide for her son first opportunity and she couldn't do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense, that's yeah, Like that would be
Speaker 2: hard for anyone to kind of swallow, right.
Speaker 1: Definitely tough call. So she decided she would ask Marina
Speaker 1: if she can get a bit of a raise, and
Speaker 1: it was agreed that they couldn't actually provide a raise specifically,
Speaker 1: but they could pay her for more hours. So they
Speaker 1: gave her an additional one hundred dollars for five extra
Speaker 1: hours each week. And if you're doing like Monday to Friday,
Speaker 1: that's only like one extra hour a day, right. So
Speaker 1: Jocelyn accepted this offer and took it more or sorry,
Speaker 1: took on the more work whenever possible, babysitting and doing
Speaker 1: whatever the family needed, and even doing some side hustle
Speaker 1: stuff with selling jewelry and makeup and you know, cooking
Speaker 1: meals for events or whatever it was. Yocelin was overwhelmed,
Speaker 1: though she wasn't working a whole lot for the Krim
Speaker 1: family with the twenty five hours plus now the extra
Speaker 1: five hours, which is thirty hours a week, right, but
Speaker 1: with her side hustles and everything, she was often working
Speaker 1: over twelve hours a day and expressing how tired she
Speaker 1: was whenever neighbors even saw her passing in the hallway. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Marina was aware she was struggling financially and would recommend
Speaker 1: Yocelin to friends or family or anyone that she knew
Speaker 1: in need of a babysitter. However, this only frustrated Yoscelin,
Speaker 1: who felt the extra duties cut in her time with
Speaker 1: Hayesus and left her feeling like she was losing control
Speaker 1: of her life and ultimately resenting Marina for this.
Speaker 2: Really, yes, why she was trying to help though.
Speaker 1: Yes, but she didn't need more work. She needed more money.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so she's almost like, you need to give
Speaker 1: me a raise, not give me more work. Huh, because
Speaker 1: more work means more time away from my son. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah, so it was like there was this bit
Speaker 1: of resentment for that. Oh no, yeah, but we'll touch
Speaker 1: on it a little bit later on again. So still,
Speaker 1: Yocelin maintained a professional demeanor at work, even though she
Speaker 1: was starting to kind of like get that little bit
Speaker 1: of like gruffness towards Marina. So she confided her frustrations
Speaker 1: only in those who were close to her. Now, to them,
Speaker 1: Jocelyn seemed to be slowly unraveling mentally. She was losing weight,
Speaker 1: looked gaunt or frail, and was frequently extremely tired. And
Speaker 1: even at points they would see, you're quite tearful. Now,
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's like just watery eyes or
Speaker 1: she's actually we crying physically, but regardless, I think it's
Speaker 1: the same outcome. Her once happy attitude seemed to change
Speaker 1: as well. She stopped greeting people enthusiastically with a smile,
Speaker 1: stopped listening to the music that she always listened to
Speaker 1: on a daily basis, and began experiencing insomnia. The vibrant
Speaker 1: person she once knew once was just seemed to be gone.
Speaker 1: In her small, cramp bedroom in the apartment with total
Speaker 1: of five people, Joscelyn described seeing once again shadowy figures
Speaker 1: moving around at night, whispering threats, telling her things, saying
Speaker 1: that they're going to harm her. It seemed, after all
Speaker 1: these years, she was still unable to shake that horrible evil.
Speaker 1: When she wasn't working, she spent most of her free
Speaker 1: time in that room. Her sister said she could often
Speaker 1: hear her in that room praying, and Yoscelyn kept her
Speaker 1: mental health struggles hidden from the Krim family and continued
Speaker 1: to perform her duties as best as she could. Over
Speaker 1: Labor Day weekend in twenty twelve, Yoscelyn was offered some
Speaker 1: extra work by a friend of Marina. After working one day,
Speaker 1: Joscelin said she can no longer do the job. Instead,
Speaker 1: a friend of hers would be taking over instead. Marina
Speaker 1: felt betrayed. She gave Yostlin a very good recommendation to
Speaker 1: the friend. She felt she put her own name on
Speaker 1: the line for Joscelin, and she felt that she was
Speaker 1: let down. The next day, Marina confronted Yocelin during a
Speaker 1: school drop off with the kids, reportedly telling her quote,
Speaker 1: I don't want to see your face right now. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: so there's some tension building up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding, Now there are some.
Speaker 1: Other people around, you know, like there's other parents or
Speaker 1: kids or nanny's or whoever. Yeah, And Yostin kind of
Speaker 1: felt publicly humiliated from this, and she sat down on
Speaker 1: a bench park and just asking herself and just saying,
Speaker 1: what did I do wrong? I did everything for her?
Speaker 1: How can she ignore me? After everything? Even washing her
Speaker 1: underwear for two years? So she felt betrayed too.
Speaker 2: Wow, I mean, yeah, this is actually a bit surprising
Speaker 2: because it seemed like they had bill their relationship pretty
Speaker 2: strongly for these things to be happening, right, But they're
Speaker 2: not really talking them through. I guess either.
Speaker 1: No, definitely not. But yeah, each one is building up
Speaker 1: a little bit more resentment for the other, and with
Speaker 1: each situation that occurs, it's probably just growing with them, right,
Speaker 1: They're harboring more and more and they're not figuring it
Speaker 1: out or solving it. Now, Yostlin's work performance began to
Speaker 1: seriously decline, perhaps not only by her mental health, but
Speaker 1: also with the sort of situation and tension that's beginning
Speaker 1: to grow between her and Marina. But now she was
Speaker 1: approached once again by Marina and warned that they might
Speaker 1: have to let her go to find someone else if
Speaker 1: things didn't improve with her performance. By this point, Yocelyn's
Speaker 1: mental health was taking a serious dive. Her family members
Speaker 1: recounted several disturbing incidents with her. In one, while visiting
Speaker 1: a friend, she appeared too faint, losing consciousness while her
Speaker 1: eyes remained why open, Oh boy. Another time, she collapsed
Speaker 1: like almost as if her knees just like gave out
Speaker 1: underneath her, again with her eyes still wide open. Her
Speaker 1: sister once found her in the early mornings at about
Speaker 1: like four am, banging her head against the wall and
Speaker 1: pulling against her hair, crying, wishing, praying, yeah, not good.
Speaker 1: Joscelyn finally made the decision though, to seek out some
Speaker 1: mental health help, and she made an appointment with a
Speaker 1: psychologist in October twenty second of that year. Now, during
Speaker 1: the forty five minute session, she didn't mention any hallucinations
Speaker 1: or psychosis, nothing about voices, nothing about shadow figures, but
Speaker 1: instead focused on the high stress levels, the anxiety about
Speaker 1: her work, her relationship with her son, and her sense
Speaker 1: of failing to provide for him. A psychologist noted these things,
Speaker 1: but never anything about displaying signs of hallucinations, psychotic episodes,
Speaker 1: anything in that regard. So on October twenty fourth, more
Speaker 1: stress will be piled on Jocelyn. Mareena expressed some more
Speaker 1: concerns over for her not engaging enough with the children,
Speaker 1: which I mean explains if someone's going through depression and
Speaker 1: stuff that sounds about right, and also for giving them
Speaker 1: junk food when she explicitly told him told her not
Speaker 1: to give them this food, right m h. It seemed
Speaker 1: this would be the breaking point for Yoscelin in this
Speaker 1: encounter with Marina. That night, Jocelyn took a lot of
Speaker 1: pain meds for a headache that she was suffering. Headaches
Speaker 1: that she'd been suffering for for a long time. She
Speaker 1: spoke with her sister and told her to take good
Speaker 1: care of her son and told her to raise him
Speaker 1: well and expressed her love for what she had for Hazeus.
Speaker 1: The following morning, on October twenty fifth, Joscelyn texted Hayesus
Speaker 1: to confirm that he'd gotten on the bus for school
Speaker 1: just like any other day, and he did. And before
Speaker 1: leaving for the Krim House, Jocelyn hung up a purse
Speaker 1: on her sister's bedroom door. Now inside that purse there
Speaker 1: was family heirlooms. Photos of her deceased late mother, her
Speaker 1: mother's passport, social Security card, a chain that belonged to
Speaker 1: her mother, a broken ring and earring, Jesus's baby teeth,
Speaker 1: a picture of him as a baby, as well as
Speaker 1: childhood photos of her sister, her family. It was all
Speaker 1: of Joscelyn's prized possessions put inside of this purse.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, my chest is feeling real tight right now.
Speaker 1: It probably should.
Speaker 2: Oh shit.
Speaker 1: Joscelyn also visited a neighbor and left an envelope addressed
Speaker 1: to her sister. The envelope contained her debit card, driver's license,
Speaker 1: to insurance cards, passport, social Security card, blood donor card,
Speaker 1: bank papers, and one hundred dollars in cash, not that
Speaker 1: the neighbor knew that, right, It was a rest to
Speaker 1: her sister, so it'd be open later. But Jocelyn was
Speaker 1: apparently kind of like, like, I don't understand this statement,
Speaker 1: gnashing her teeth. I think, like kind of.
Speaker 2: Like grinding her teeth.
Speaker 1: Or maybe like yeah, like I don't know, like gaping
Speaker 1: her mouth a little bit and just doing some weird
Speaker 1: stuff with her mouth. Anyways, her eyes were darting around,
Speaker 1: she was pacing back and forth and just acting really
Speaker 1: weird during this visit, and Jocelyn from there would take
Speaker 1: the train to the Krim family home. When she got
Speaker 1: got there, Marine explained the afternoon plans y Austin was
Speaker 1: to take two year old Leo and pick up six
Speaker 1: year old Lucia from school and then escort Lucia to
Speaker 1: her ballet class and return home with Leo for his nap. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Marina planned to take three year old NeSSI to her
Speaker 1: swim class and then pick up Lucia from ballet at
Speaker 1: five and then head home.
Speaker 2: Gosh, that's so much ay, Like, well, I mean it is,
Speaker 2: but it's once you have like two adults taking care
Speaker 2: of this and a routine and stuff. Yeah, but I'm
Speaker 2: just like, oly shit.
Speaker 1: So Yocelin takes Leo, picks up Lucia and then takes
Speaker 1: her to ballet and then takes Leo home. That's all.
Speaker 2: It's four steps okay, okay, yeah, and.
Speaker 1: Then Maria was taking NeSSI to swim class, picking up
Speaker 1: Lucia from ballet, and then home three steps.
Speaker 2: Okay, there you go, look at you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Here, I'm just like, holy shit, what am I supposed
Speaker 2: to do?
Speaker 1: Drop off, pick up home? That's it? So Yaucelin followed
Speaker 1: the plan picking up Lucia from school, but instead of
Speaker 1: heading to ballet class, she took the children to Central
Speaker 1: Park for ice cream. Marina left the house at four
Speaker 1: pm with NeSSI. After the swim class, Marina and NeSSI
Speaker 1: went to the ballet studio to pick up Lucia Yeah,
Speaker 1: only to discover she never arrived.
Speaker 2: Oo no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Marina became anxious and worried right away because Yoscelin had
Speaker 1: always been dependable.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Marina texts y Austlin asking where where she was, where
Speaker 1: the kids were, but there was no response. She even
Speaker 1: texts again in Spanish quote where are you? But still nothing.
Speaker 1: She was getting really worried, so Marina rushed home with
Speaker 1: NeSSI and upon arriving to your partment, calling out for
Speaker 1: her a children, she saw Leo's stroller and Lucia's dance bag,
Speaker 1: but heard nothing coming from inside the home. It was silent.
Speaker 1: Marina went back down to the dorman who was tending,
Speaker 1: you know, the apartment building at the front entrance, letting
Speaker 1: people in and out, you know, ensuring everything's all good.
Speaker 1: And the dorman said that Joscelyn and the kids had
Speaker 1: returned earlier and should be in the apartment. So Marina
Speaker 1: immediately went back up to the apartment and began searching,
Speaker 1: and it didn't take long before she made a brutal discovery.
Speaker 1: In her own words, Marina said this quote, it was
Speaker 1: like a horror movie. I walked down the hall and
Speaker 1: saw the light under the door. It was so quiet,
Speaker 1: too quiet. I opened the door and saw Lulu. I
Speaker 1: knew she was dead. She was lying in the bathtub
Speaker 1: with her eyes open. Leo was next to her, and
Speaker 1: they had blood on them. Then I saw Joscelin covered
Speaker 1: in blood with her eyes wide open. All I remember
Speaker 1: is saying I hate you. I screamed a scream I
Speaker 1: didn't know was inside of me. I thought, I'll never
Speaker 1: talk to them again. They're gone. I just saw my
Speaker 1: kids dead.
Speaker 2: Holely.
Speaker 1: Upon seeing Marina, Yoscelin stabbed herself in the throat to
Speaker 1: end her own life.
Speaker 2: Okay, what so she wasn't actually dead, Jocelin? No, but
Speaker 2: then she who killed she? Then she killed herself?
Speaker 1: Yes, once Marina came in, Oh no, Lynn put a
Speaker 1: knife into her throat.
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
Speaker 1: Marina grabbed NeSSI and immediately fled, collapsing in the hallway
Speaker 1: of the apartment complex while screaming. A neighbor described hearing
Speaker 1: a blood curdling scream and finding her hunched over NeSSI
Speaker 1: going back and forth between calming NeSSI down and trying
Speaker 1: to calm herself down. Realizing of what the fuck just happened.
Speaker 1: The dorman called nine one one, and the building superintendent,
Speaker 1: Michael Minniha rushed to the apartment. He found Joscelyn staring
Speaker 1: into a bathroom mirror, blood pouring from her throat as
Speaker 1: she stared deep into her own eyes. He could see
Speaker 1: the children's bodies and blood everywhere. Michael left the apartment
Speaker 1: and barricaded the door shut until police made their way
Speaker 1: and arrived, both so no one would see the absolute
Speaker 1: horrors behind it and to ensure Yoslin didn't escape. The
Speaker 1: first responding officer found Michael holding the door shut, describing
Speaker 1: him as pale and sweating and saying, quote, whatever is
Speaker 1: behind that door is pure evil.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, this is just like making me feel ill.
Speaker 2: This is unreal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fucking ride, I can tell you that
Speaker 1: much right now.
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
Speaker 1: The officers entered securing the apartment room by room, They
Speaker 1: found Joscelyn now laying on the floor, barely conscious, with
Speaker 1: a bloody knife beside her. One officer removed the children
Speaker 1: from the bathtub where they were laying, fearing they might
Speaker 1: actually slip from his hands due to the sheer amount
Speaker 1: of blood.
Speaker 2: Wow okay.
Speaker 1: Reportedly, the officers were even worried that the children's heads
Speaker 1: may become fully decapitated and fall off due to the
Speaker 1: intense gravity of the stab wounds. They sustained.
Speaker 2: Okay, because okay, Well that answers the question. I was like, well,
Speaker 2: are we certain that they're dead? But okay, yeah, yeah
Speaker 2: we are.
Speaker 1: Though the efforts to resuscitate them both did occur, they
Speaker 1: were pronounced dead. Marina was taken to the hospital with
Speaker 1: NeSSI she had to be sedated due to the shock
Speaker 1: of what just occurred in what she saw, dang. Both
Speaker 1: children had multiple stab wounds and slash wounds. Leo had
Speaker 1: five wounds and a slit throat, while Lucia had over
Speaker 1: thirty injuries, indicating a very violent struggle. The medical examiner
Speaker 1: confirmed they both died of blood loss, which means they
Speaker 1: were conscious of what happened.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, she was the oldest one, right, I believe
Speaker 2: so yes, yeah, oh my gosh, ben okay.
Speaker 1: Kevin was returning home from a flight from being away
Speaker 1: at work and was at the JFK airport and he
Speaker 1: was escorted by NYPD officers and was informed of what happened.
Speaker 1: Yoslin was also taken to the hospital as she clung
Speaker 1: to life and underwent surgery for her injuries. She survived.
Speaker 1: Once she regained consciousness. After surgery, Yoscelin was able to
Speaker 1: communicate for the first time since she attacked. She was
Speaker 1: able to say she was unable to speak, but was
Speaker 1: given an alphabet board to communicate. She spelled out a
Speaker 1: message quote, I had to do everything and take care
Speaker 1: of the kids. I worked as a babysitter only, and
Speaker 1: she wanted me to do everything. She wanted five hours
Speaker 1: of cleaning every week. My schedule every day is different, boss,
Speaker 1: Marina every day has a different schedule for me.
Speaker 2: Holy shit. So here she's conscious and like that's her
Speaker 2: fucking message. She just killed two kids.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: She didn't make any mention of voices, didn't make any
Speaker 1: mention of shadow people or demons. She only mentioned the
Speaker 1: resentment for Marina. Not concerned for the children, not what
Speaker 1: just happened, just the resentment for Marina.
Speaker 2: I'm like shook right now. This is like so shocking,
Speaker 2: so unexpected, so fucked up.
Speaker 1: Now, you know why. I was like, oh, yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: probably do this case soon. And I was like I'm
Speaker 1: doing this case real soon.
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay. I was just like, Wow, this family's so
Speaker 2: dope and now and now it's just completely destroyed. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yostlin was charged with two counts of first degree murder,
Speaker 1: and a month after her arrest, her defense team entered
Speaker 1: a plea of not guilty by reason of mental defect
Speaker 1: or disease. So they're saying, yeah, she's right. Many evaluations
Speaker 1: both from the defending and prosecuting side, would occur in
Speaker 1: order to investigate this claim, and throughout these evaluations for
Speaker 1: years after, Joscelyn blamed Marina for what happened to her
Speaker 1: children and for many of the personal problems she encountered
Speaker 1: as well. Now, the prosecution argued that Yocelyn did not
Speaker 1: have a mental defect or disease. Instead, she harbored intense
Speaker 1: hatred for Marina, believing that she resented her employer's expectations.
Speaker 1: They stated that she was upset Marina suggests that she
Speaker 1: worked extra hours instead of increasing her pay without any
Speaker 1: added responsibilities. Basically, you made me work for money instead
Speaker 1: of just giving me more money as a raise.
Speaker 2: I don't. That's not how the world works.
Speaker 1: So here, no, I mean we all want to fucking raise.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, who the hell doesn't want to raise?
Speaker 1: And usually if we get a raise, you're getting like, hey,
Speaker 1: here's twenty five cents extra.
Speaker 2: If that's it's like ten cents or some shit, right,
Speaker 2: like gosh, So she.
Speaker 1: Held feelings of They also claim she held feelings of
Speaker 1: inadequacy about providing for her son as well, and that
Speaker 1: she became increasingly jealous of Marina's ability to provide for
Speaker 1: her children and a life that she could not provide
Speaker 1: for her own Sonjeseus, Which that one makes a lot
Speaker 1: of sense to me, a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it ain't right.
Speaker 1: That's no, it's not. But if you take that and
Speaker 1: also couple it with the idea of she's like, well,
Speaker 1: give me a raise, she's looking at this really well
Speaker 1: off family with these really happy kids who spend time
Speaker 1: with their kids, who are doing everything. She's like, you
Speaker 1: can afford it. Yeah, And so she's like, I hate
Speaker 1: that you can provide and you're not providing for me,
Speaker 1: so I can provide. I think that's a very big
Speaker 1: piece to this puzzle. Yocelyn fixated on the idea that
Speaker 1: the extra work was causing her son to suffer, which
Speaker 1: fueled her rage and hatred the prosecution. Sorry this whole
Speaker 1: prosecution also culminated into the moment when she attacked and
Speaker 1: Yolson waited for Marina to discover the gruesome scene in
Speaker 1: the bathroom, only attempting to take her own life after
Speaker 1: witnessing Marina's anguish herself ensuring that she got gratification for
Speaker 1: the gruesome actions that she just did. So that's what
Speaker 1: they're saying, is like you you were waiting, you knew you.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because that's like, that's just fucked up to
Speaker 2: want to see the pain I know, of seeing her
Speaker 2: two kids dead.
Speaker 1: Which it makes sense. She she held resentment for Marina,
Speaker 1: she didn't hold resentment against the kids. She took it
Speaker 1: out on the kids, and she wanted to see her reaction.
Speaker 1: She wanted that gratification of seeing Marina suffer.
Speaker 2: Well, that is just like the ultimate of suffering. Though,
Speaker 2: like I and I thought that she had like a
Speaker 2: love for the kids, you know, so it's so bizarre
Speaker 2: that she could physically do that.
Speaker 1: I know them, I know in court, the defense team
Speaker 1: would bring up the idea of the voices and the demons. Now,
Speaker 1: this is where I need to make a very big clarification.
Speaker 1: Up until now, there was never any mention of these things.
Speaker 1: No one knew of them, not doctors, not the Krim family.
Speaker 1: Only in court when defending her apparent mental state or
Speaker 1: disease or whatever you want to call it. Did these
Speaker 1: demons and voices ever get brought up. There's no history
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: In fact, I even mentioned her seeking psychiatric help at
Speaker 1: one point.
Speaker 2: But yeh, she never stayed in, never.
Speaker 1: Stated huh, these claims she was suffering from this for years,
Speaker 1: there's no proof of it. There's nothing of it. She
Speaker 1: did have some family members saying, yeah, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: this is the case that totally happened, but there's not
Speaker 1: like sure, why didn't you guys say anything until now,
Speaker 1: Like even when this occurred, nothing of it was brought up.
Speaker 1: Only in court when this is like the defense has
Speaker 1: it been brought up?
Speaker 2: Yeah, which doesn't look good at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now they also claim that she was suffering from this,
Speaker 1: of course for years, but she also had no memory
Speaker 1: of the tack because she believed she was possessed by
Speaker 1: a devil during it. Now the prosecution struck back and asked, well,
Speaker 1: she has no memory of it, then, why was her
Speaker 1: first thoughts upon waking up to explain her actions? Explain
Speaker 1: why she was angry at Marina instead of inquiring and
Speaker 1: asking about the children, or ask what happened? Or ask
Speaker 1: why did she here? Yeah? Oh okay, Yeah, So they're like,
Speaker 1: she was very conscious and very aware what she was doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she was hopeful that she was also going
Speaker 2: to be taking her own life, I suppose.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, pivotal moment in this case came during the
Speaker 1: trial when the court played a recording of an interview
Speaker 1: between Jocelyn and the States expert psychologists. So, when they'd
Speaker 1: made this claim initially, I said, for some years, there
Speaker 1: was psychologists on both sides, you know, interviewing and analyzing
Speaker 1: and all this sort of stuff with her. So despite
Speaker 1: her defense team claiming that, you know, she had these
Speaker 1: symptoms and all this sort of stuff, this recording of
Speaker 1: the state's evaluation went as such, So the evaluator said, quote,
Speaker 1: any recollection of hearing voices or voice telling you to
Speaker 1: kill the children? Joslyn said no. She was asked, ever,
Speaker 1: she replied no, I love the children very much a lot.
Speaker 1: She was asked, So, you never received any instruction or
Speaker 1: voices that today's the day to kill the children? She
Speaker 1: replied no. She was asked, you never saw a devil?
Speaker 1: She replied no. She was asked, had a visual image
Speaker 1: of the devil? She replied no. Did you experience seeing
Speaker 1: men in black appearing? No, She herself denied the very
Speaker 1: existence of these hallucinations, these demons. Yeah, in her own words,
Speaker 1: when she first woke up, she explained exactly why she
Speaker 1: did this. Yeah, In this interview, she's debunking the very
Speaker 1: defense that they are coming up with in court that
Speaker 1: never happened.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so that's just confusing to me. Why is
Speaker 2: she lying about that?
Speaker 1: Like, I don't think she's lying about it. I think
Speaker 1: her defense team is lying about.
Speaker 2: Well, but so, did she actually ever hear voices and stuff?
Speaker 1: No, yes, she was going through depression. Yes, she had
Speaker 1: some very serious mental health issues. But she never heard voices.
Speaker 1: She even said that gave this little interview. So you
Speaker 1: never received any instruction or voices that today's a day
Speaker 1: to kill the children. Any recollection of hearing voices or
Speaker 1: voices telling you to kill the children?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: And no.
Speaker 2: Okay, so she still may have heard voices, but just
Speaker 2: not in you know, to do this to the children.
Speaker 1: Potentially, I guess, as far as I'm aware in my research,
Speaker 1: there's no proof that you ever heard any voices.
Speaker 2: Hmmm. Shit.
Speaker 1: The jury Sorry. The trial would last a total of
Speaker 1: six weeks, but eventually the jury found Joscelyn guilty of
Speaker 1: one count of first degree murder and another of second
Speaker 1: degree murder, sentencing her to life in prison without the
Speaker 1: possibility of parole.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I would say so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is the story of the Krim family murders.
Speaker 2: That is just who Yeah, that's It's like, I'm I
Speaker 2: actually almost feel like I'm a bit in shock here.
Speaker 2: I didn't well rightfully, So, I mean, I know this
Speaker 2: is a true grim podcast, but it's just like, wow,
Speaker 2: I don't yeah, wow, I mean, how else do you
Speaker 2: even describe that. I'm shocked that she actually killed two
Speaker 2: of the kids, I know, these two innocent little kids.
Speaker 1: Clearly she was suffering from from mental health issues, like
Speaker 1: I'm not doubting that one ounce, but she was not
Speaker 1: suffering from psychosis. That is clear. She was clearly fit
Speaker 1: enough to found fit enough to stand trial, yeah, one
Speaker 1: hundred percent. So whatever she was experiencing, she went from
Speaker 1: being a member of the family family even still saying
Speaker 1: in her own freaking words, I loved the children very
Speaker 1: much a lot. Yeah, she went from that to cutting
Speaker 1: their throats and waiting to see their mother's expression on
Speaker 1: her face.
Speaker 2: Oh man, man, yeah, yeah, that this just makes me
Speaker 2: feel ill. And you know, because mental health or not,
Speaker 2: like it doesn't it just it's not an excuse for
Speaker 2: these kind of.
Speaker 1: As though it's not. It may lend some understanding and
Speaker 1: where someone's headspace is or what they're going through. But
Speaker 1: it's not an excuse. It's never an excuse. You you
Speaker 1: hurt someone, you hurt them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't like, I'm sorry, I'm just like
Speaker 2: flabbergasted a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're taken a back.
Speaker 2: I feel so sorry for that family. And you know,
Speaker 2: now that their family have three, I can imagine the
Speaker 2: ship that they have to get get through and over
Speaker 2: and well, I mean they're never gonna get over it.
Speaker 2: But you know what I mean, I.
Speaker 1: Can't imagine they're probably ever going to hire a nanny again.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, yep. I think you're probably very much so right.
Speaker 2: I mean, they're one kid too, Like the amount that
Speaker 2: they're going forward like protecting this kid right like, her
Speaker 2: life is going to drastically change too, because the parents,
Speaker 2: unrightfully show were just like terrified of probably anything and
Speaker 2: everything happening to her.
Speaker 1: Yeah him, it was Leo Leo.
Speaker 2: I thought Leo died or was it?
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's right, that's right, Okay, right, Sorry, my apologies. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so yeah, that was a heavy case. Thanks Darcy for
Speaker 1: putting you onto that one. That was something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never heard of that one. Wow.
Speaker 1: I've been trying to find some different types of cases recently,
Speaker 1: and it's I've come to this realization that the amount
Speaker 1: of times children are victimized in true crime is exponentially
Speaker 1: far too great. Like they don't get me wrong, like
Speaker 1: one is too many. But it seems like when I
Speaker 1: come across a case, I'm like, oh, this sounds interesting.
Speaker 1: The children are the victims, and it's a consistent the
Speaker 1: children are the victims, and it's beginning to absolutely fucking
Speaker 1: terrify me.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, gosh, like they they can't really protect
Speaker 2: themselves much, right, yeah, so, and they're so innocent and
Speaker 2: they have no idea the bad stuff that can.
Speaker 1: Happen, and then the truth is in humanity.
Speaker 2: So it's like almost easier for these people to to
Speaker 2: do the stuff I guess to.
Speaker 1: Them, right yeah, well, I mean that's exactly what happened here.
Speaker 1: Joscelyn didn't attack Marina. She attacked the kids to get
Speaker 1: to Marina.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's fucked.
Speaker 2: That is It's like that is like evil.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so evil.
Speaker 2: Well that's what that.
Speaker 1: That's the one dude said, you know, as he was
Speaker 1: blocking the door. Michael, I believe it was as he
Speaker 1: was holding that door waiting for police to arrive, he said,
Speaker 1: whatever is behind that door is pure evil. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: he's one hundred percent right.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Whether whether there really was these fucking shadow people or
Speaker 1: demons or whatever whispering in her ears, whether it was
Speaker 1: those things that were pure evil or it's Joscelyn herself,
Speaker 1: I don't care whatever it yeah, pure fucking evil.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So that's the story of the Krim Family murders. Hopefully
Speaker 1: you guys are still listening and you got through.
Speaker 2: That all right, Well, yeah, and we can only hope
Speaker 2: that the Krim family is doing okay. Some some like
Speaker 2: I don't know, I want to say peace, but like
Speaker 2: even like a sliver of it, you know, for like
Speaker 2: some of the remaining life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so well, thank you for being here, Thank you
Speaker 1: for listening. Of course we have all those thingy is
Speaker 1: in the description of the podcast links to other stuff Patreon,
Speaker 1: for example, if you want to give us a review.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate that we are an indie podcast, produced researched.
Speaker 1: All of it is just us. There's no one else
Speaker 1: on our team, no one else over seeing anything.
Speaker 2: It's just us that makes it seem so sad and scary.
Speaker 1: Well, and I'm just saying like we're not some like
Speaker 1: part of big corporation.
Speaker 2: I know what. I'm just like Wheels all alone.
Speaker 1: We don't have managers nothing, you know, it's just us.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so yeah, we appreciate all the support you
Speaker 1: can give us, give us reviews, whatever, even if you're
Speaker 1: just listening. We appreciate the shit out of that. Trust
Speaker 1: me on that.
Speaker 2: So sure do.
Speaker 1: Thanks for being here. And Nicole's got the next episode?
Speaker 1: Are you gonna get the hint or just that's it?
Speaker 1: We're doing it next soon.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I can. It's like a huge
Speaker 2: it's a Canadian story.
Speaker 1: Okay, I know what it is, but yeah.
Speaker 2: It's a it's happened in Nova Scotia in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: And it uh, don't give much away, I know.
Speaker 2: I'm like, and yeah, it's it's it's maddening. It's like
Speaker 2: so maddening. I'm I mean, I was going to give
Speaker 2: out more, but then you just baus and me, So
Speaker 2: that's all you get. I mean, if you know the
Speaker 2: case that's gonna you're going to know which money?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I know what you were going to say,
Speaker 1: and if you said that, I think it was going
Speaker 1: to give it all away. So that's why I kind
Speaker 1: of like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely worth a listen, like it, Yeah, it
Speaker 2: needs it's a story that needs to be told, as
Speaker 2: many of these do.
Speaker 1: I agree, and as you put it in very good words,
Speaker 1: it's it's a maddening case.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so uh until Friday, because every Friday now we upload.
Speaker 1: Until Friday, we will we'll talk to you, will see
Speaker 1: you or hear you, or you'll hear us. We'll be
Speaker 1: there Friday and until
Speaker 2: Then, stay wicked.