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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes in life you're wronged by those who are closest

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<v Speaker 1>to you, or the ones you would least expect. In

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<v Speaker 1>the case of the Krim Family murders, it comes from

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<v Speaker 1>a source they would least expect, from a person they

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<v Speaker 1>led in their home and their children loved. But all

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<v Speaker 1>it took was one day for this person to be

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<v Speaker 1>pushed too far, and it all ended in an absolute bloodbath.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the story of the Krim Family murders.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked

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<v Speaker 2>and Grim.

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<v Speaker 1>A true crime podcast. The following podcast material intended for

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<v Speaker 1>a mature audience. Listener discretion advice. How do I look?

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<v Speaker 1>Do I look good enough for the podcast? Right now?

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<v Speaker 2>I think so?

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<v Speaker 1>I think so.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I look at your fancy glasses. Finally, after speak

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<v Speaker 2>talking about this for like probably two years, I bet

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<v Speaker 2>you fair enough.

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<v Speaker 1>Fair enough. But I am now thirty six years old

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<v Speaker 1>and I officially have dork vision.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness.

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<v Speaker 1>What.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I think glasses can be like. I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>they can be pretty like. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't see stylish.

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<v Speaker 2>It's dorkish. I think it's almost like sophisticated.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I have nothing against glasses. Absolutely nothing, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>just fun to call it dork vision. I guess it's

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<v Speaker 1>not like I'm actually going to go up to someone

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<v Speaker 1>wearing glasses. Are you nice glasses? Dork? No, It's just

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<v Speaker 1>something to just joke about because I'm wearing them. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>I also got new glasses, but I already wore glasses,

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<v Speaker 2>so I don't think this anyone would ever notice.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're still a door.

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<v Speaker 2>Probably more so because my uh prescription actually went up

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<v Speaker 2>like big time.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah you needed this, Yeah, so where's me? I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I needed it too, but my prescription's pretty low.

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<v Speaker 2>I was getting like little headaches and I kind of

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<v Speaker 2>think it was to do with that, just because I

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<v Speaker 2>was kind of straining. But also I am apparently so

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<v Speaker 2>sore of my glasses all the time, and I maybe

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<v Speaker 2>wore them, Like what would you say, Well, I have

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<v Speaker 2>five percent of the day. Oh, yes, five percent, because

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<v Speaker 2>they wear them when I'm working.

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<v Speaker 1>Barely half the time. You're halfway through working, you're like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I need my glasses.

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<v Speaker 2>No, No, when I'm on the computer, I'm always wearing them.

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<v Speaker 2>A larky but anyway, so yeah, now I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 2>wear them, you know, a lot more and it's actually helping.

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<v Speaker 1>That's good.

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<v Speaker 2>Imagine that.

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<v Speaker 1>That's good. I didn't have the glasses or you didn't

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<v Speaker 1>have your new glasses for a two hundredth episode, which

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<v Speaker 1>would have been nice dimly lit, you know, brewery reading

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<v Speaker 1>the laptop was not the easyest thing.

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<v Speaker 2>But hey, it was still wicked and you did good.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was wicked and it was.

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<v Speaker 2>Grim, yeah, very much.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you guys haven't listened to it, it did

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<v Speaker 1>come out. It's our two hundredth episode. The video will

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<v Speaker 1>be coming out on YouTube here in the coming days.

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<v Speaker 1>We got to do a bit of catch up on

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<v Speaker 1>that first. But yeah, with this two hundredth episode occurring,

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<v Speaker 1>the live version of it, this officially marks us doing

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<v Speaker 1>an episode every Tuesday and every Friday, So we are

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<v Speaker 1>officially two times a week here over in Wicked and Grim.

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<v Speaker 2>Now yeah, wild wild, And I just wanted to say too,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like a thank you to everyone that came to

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<v Speaker 2>our live We were pretty blown away. It was a bit,

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<v Speaker 2>i don't know, intimidating, yeah, but it was also just

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<v Speaker 2>like anxiety. It just like warmed your heart a little

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<v Speaker 2>though terrifying. Oh my gosh, because I remember at one point,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't remember. I think we were getting door price

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<v Speaker 2>tickets ready or something, and you were like you were

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<v Speaker 2>like make sure you take like a look around or whatever. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>because it was like really cool, really really cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Was a packed house. People were there to support us,

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<v Speaker 1>to listen to the show, and then we also had

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<v Speaker 1>our Patreon live stream going, which had a bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>people in that too. Our audio for that was a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit terrible, so we've got to figure out a

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<v Speaker 1>solution for that in the future.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, well, and I think we might try to

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<v Speaker 2>do a couple of live Patreon shows too at some point. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I think so in the coming months.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we had fun doing that, so I think, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>well we'll start doing some more live Patreon only stuff. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because why not.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, because we're always we're we want to include

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<v Speaker 2>you in these live events locally and stuff. But then

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<v Speaker 2>it'd be neat to have one just specific and you

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<v Speaker 2>know all of our attentions to.

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<v Speaker 1>That and exactly we've done some in the past, but

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<v Speaker 1>I think we need to do more regularly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it'd be fun. So you're ready for

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<v Speaker 2>this case today, Well, don't we have some patrons today?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh? Right? We were just talking about Patreon, So my bad.

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<v Speaker 2>We once Nicole has her shit together and Ben doesn't.

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<v Speaker 2>Apparently I should just note too, I'm supposed to be

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<v Speaker 2>doing this episode, but we're we're doing my episode on Friday. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like ninety five percent done.

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<v Speaker 1>Well right when we hit record on this, You're like,

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<v Speaker 1>I got like an hour left right now, search, but

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<v Speaker 1>mine's done, so I might as well just do mine

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<v Speaker 1>and then yours can be for a Friday.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there we go.

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<v Speaker 1>So what is happening?

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<v Speaker 2>It is happening. Yeah, yeah, and it's a doozy of

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<v Speaker 2>a case, which yours kind of sounds like it is

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<v Speaker 2>as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well I do know someone out there, Larissa is

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<v Speaker 1>specifically I wouldn't say looking forward to this case, but

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<v Speaker 1>has cursed you out on social media or that. I know.

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<v Speaker 2>I meant to respond to that, but yeah, Larissa, it

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<v Speaker 2>is that one. So prepare yourself if you can.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, anyways, we got to thank some Patreon subscribers,

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<v Speaker 1>So thank you to Denise, Samantha Gutsky, Haley, I'm probably

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<v Speaker 1>gonna butcher your name, but I'm gonna give it my

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<v Speaker 1>best shot here, Hailey Sinkwicks and zach Rice nice, thank

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<v Speaker 1>you very much for sending to Patreon.

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<v Speaker 2>We appreciate that so freaking much. We do.

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<v Speaker 1>You guys are incredible, even though I might have forgot

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<v Speaker 1>to thank you this week if it wasn't for Nicole.

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<v Speaker 1>So thank you for Nicole for reminding me as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's okay, we forgive you.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you appreciate it. Okay, So this is the Krim

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<v Speaker 1>Family murders. And shout out to a friend, Darcy overhead

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<v Speaker 1>at Crimson Down Collective, for recommending this case to me.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>I was talking to her. She said, oh, should look

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<v Speaker 1>into this one, and I was like, oh, yeah, I'll

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<v Speaker 1>probably do that one soon. And then I read an

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<v Speaker 1>article about it and I'm like, I think I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to do it real soon. So here we are. Hey, yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so today we talk about not only the Krim Family murders,

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<v Speaker 1>but a story of an individual named Joscelin or Tega. Okay, so,

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<v Speaker 1>Yoscelin was born in the Dominican Republic on May first

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen sixty two. Her family was not a small one,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was one of you know, eight children, So

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<v Speaker 1>it's a bit of a bustle in home, right her

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<v Speaker 1>parents owned a owned a grocery store where the children

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<v Speaker 1>helped at a young age, which is a typical practice

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<v Speaker 1>for many people and families in that era. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>like the kids working on the farm. You know, we've

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<v Speaker 1>got to have more kids, we have more hands working

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<v Speaker 1>around crops and whatever sort of mindset. But that's besides

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<v Speaker 1>the point. So because of their successful business, their family

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<v Speaker 1>was living a life that was fairly comfortable as far

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<v Speaker 1>as local standards go. And Jocelyn's life, however, would take

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<v Speaker 1>a different and dramatic shift at the age of sixteen,

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<v Speaker 1>and this was when her twelve year old sister Rosa

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<v Speaker 1>died unexpectedly from her brain.

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<v Speaker 2>Aneurysm Oh jeez.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So when she looked back on her life in

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<v Speaker 1>her later years, it was clear to see that this

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<v Speaker 1>tragic event was the beginning of her struggles with depression.

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<v Speaker 1>Like many who suffer from depression, Joslin became reclusive and

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<v Speaker 1>shut out to many of those who were close to her,

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<v Speaker 1>and she did so for probably about a year at least.

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<v Speaker 1>She began experiencing persistent headaches that came along with it. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>as if dealing with depression wasn't quite enough, these headaches

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<v Speaker 1>seemed to bring along an even darker aspect with it.

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<v Speaker 1>During this time, she also started hearing voices. These voices

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<v Speaker 1>were things of absolute nightmares, and she said that they

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<v Speaker 1>would urge her to hurt herself, and not only herself,

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<v Speaker 1>but also those around her as well. Oh, my friends

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<v Speaker 1>or family or whoever's in the home or who she's with.

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<v Speaker 2>That's terrifying for both her and others.

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<v Speaker 1>No kidding. Yeah, Now, despite what they were saying to her, though,

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<v Speaker 1>she consistently was able to resist listening to them, doing

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<v Speaker 1>her best to ignore and brush them off. But it

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't easy. They were very persistent. They nagged, and they

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<v Speaker 1>would describe sorry, and she would describe the voices as

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<v Speaker 1>external to her mind, which basically means that these voices

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<v Speaker 1>aren't like in her head. She could actually hear them

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<v Speaker 1>like audibly, like talking to her okay, which is I

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<v Speaker 1>think scarier if you ask me.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's terrifying.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no kidding, And they would actually often get loud

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<v Speaker 1>enough to wake her up at night and even prevent

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<v Speaker 1>her from sleeping at times.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh man.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so this was not a good thing that she

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<v Speaker 1>was going through. Yeah, but she was consistently just doing

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<v Speaker 1>her best to ignore them whenever she.

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<v Speaker 2>Could, and probably I mean, I'm doing this more so alone,

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<v Speaker 2>right I'm assuming.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, Yeah, there's not a whole lot of discussion or

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<v Speaker 1>talks about this.

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<v Speaker 2>Back then and stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, I mean like back then. It's not only

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<v Speaker 1>back then, but it's also in the Dominican Republic too, Right,

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<v Speaker 1>mental health conditions were heavily stigmatized at that time in

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<v Speaker 1>the sixties, but also over in the Dominican Republic. It

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't really something that people really took seriously having in

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<v Speaker 1>all honesty, probably for not even since like the last

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<v Speaker 1>couple decades, was it really something that people were like, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>we should actually maybe maintain look into andreap this sort

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<v Speaker 1>of shit and take I mean, honestly, it's.

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<v Speaker 2>Come so far, but it still needs to come further

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<v Speaker 2>in that Like, I mean, people are afraid to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about it. It's talked about a lot more, but it

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<v Speaker 2>could be talked about even.

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<v Speaker 1>More, I think definitely. But for you also, and though

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<v Speaker 1>she was afraid a lot of repercussions would come towards

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<v Speaker 1>her for if she were to talk about this, for

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<v Speaker 1>being labeled loco quote unquote or crazy, right, so she

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<v Speaker 1>kept all of this to herself, never speaking about it

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<v Speaker 1>and not seeking any help. Now, despite her struggles and

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<v Speaker 1>hiding what she was enduring, she persisted in life. In

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty five, she was she completed a degree in

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<v Speaker 1>accounting and relocated to the Big Apple Okay, Old New

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<v Speaker 1>York City. That's impressive, it is. And when she moved there,

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<v Speaker 1>one of her sisters had already made the move there

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<v Speaker 1>as well and was living there, and it made it

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<v Speaker 1>a lot easier for her to make that transition to

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<v Speaker 1>live with her sister. Right, And so her life was

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<v Speaker 1>now going well in this new country. And by nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>ninety five, Joscelyn was married and gave birth to a

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<v Speaker 1>beautiful baby boy she named Jesus.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow Okay okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Now. Despite the new life, her marriage, though, was unstable

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<v Speaker 1>and eventually ended in divorce a few years later in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety nine, which prompted her to move to the

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<v Speaker 1>Dominican Republic to continue to raise her son. Now, she

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<v Speaker 1>did yearn for what she had experienced in the USA.

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<v Speaker 1>In New York. She loved it, She wanted that, and

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<v Speaker 1>she knew that there was more opportunity there, and she

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<v Speaker 1>knew that there was more financial prospects to potentially raise

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<v Speaker 1>her son and support her son. So she moved back

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<v Speaker 1>to the States and made the very difficult decision of

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<v Speaker 1>leaving her son in the care with her sister while

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<v Speaker 1>she did go back to New York. Oh okay, Also,

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<v Speaker 1>my mic is like sliding down here. Okay, I think

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<v Speaker 1>my mic is tightened up and a get good enough.

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<v Speaker 2>You got your shit together.

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<v Speaker 1>Again, I think so, I hope.

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<v Speaker 2>So maybe I'll just sit here and watch it slide more.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe. Anyways, where did I leave off here?

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<v Speaker 2>Now?

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<v Speaker 1>I was totally distrussed.

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<v Speaker 2>I just left her kid with her sister.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh right, So yeah, she left her her son Jesus

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<v Speaker 1>with her sister and she moved back to New York.

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<v Speaker 1>So her son is in the Dominican Republic when she

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<v Speaker 1>goes back to the United States. So now in the

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<v Speaker 1>big city, she worked various jobs in factories as a cleaner,

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<v Speaker 1>and even officially became a US citizen in the year

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and four. Throughout this time, she maintained close

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<v Speaker 1>contact with her son, even ensuring to visit him several

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<v Speaker 1>times on a yearly basis. Awesome, so she's consistently going back,

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<v Speaker 1>she's sending money. You know she's going to see him.

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<v Speaker 1>She's still a part of his life. It's not like

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<v Speaker 1>she's like, see you later. It's more of a I'm

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<v Speaker 1>doing this for you, for the family, for better life

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<v Speaker 1>sort of situation, and she'll take advantage when she can

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<v Speaker 1>to ensure that she's still there now. Even though this

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<v Speaker 1>was all going on, she was living the life she

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to in New York City. Jocelyn's depression would follow her,

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<v Speaker 1>and in two thousand and eight, a close friend of

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<v Speaker 1>hers ended his life by suicide on the balcony of

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<v Speaker 1>her child home back in the Dominican Republic.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, it hit her hard, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And it plunged her into another deep depression. She moved

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<v Speaker 1>back to her home and became overly protective of her

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<v Speaker 1>son at this time and did everything she could to

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<v Speaker 1>ensure she'd or that he didn't the house except only

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<v Speaker 1>for school. Yoslyn continued to hear these voices too, and

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<v Speaker 1>they were consistently telling her to stay indoors as a

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<v Speaker 1>condition worsened. Worsened, her sister took over caring for their son,

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<v Speaker 1>and Yocelyn once again returned to New York. Okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so it's a bit of back and forth, trying to

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<v Speaker 1>figure figure things out for her. Now, eventually, Yocelin would

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<v Speaker 1>meet the Krim family, which is where this case truly begins.

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<v Speaker 1>Kevin Krim was a former athlete and Harvard graduate and

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<v Speaker 1>Marina Krim, a University of Southern California graduate and entrepreneur. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>they first cross paths at a restaurant in Venice Beach,

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<v Speaker 1>which is like picture perfect for like a romantic relationship

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<v Speaker 1>if you're thinking like a Hollywood story, right, yeah, like

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<v Speaker 1>we have a Harvard graduate and an entrepreneur meeting in

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<v Speaker 1>Venice Beach.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like hand me the romance novel, now right.

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<v Speaker 1>They did get married in two thousand and three, and

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<v Speaker 1>they would have a daughter named Lucia, and in two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and six they had their second child, they named

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<v Speaker 1>NeSSI in so sorry, they had their daughter in two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and six. Lucy out in two thousand and six

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<v Speaker 1>and NeSSI in two thousand and nine. Okay, so three

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<v Speaker 1>years apart for those two.

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<v Speaker 2>Both both girls. Sorry ah, yes, okay, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, the family moved to New York in twenty ten

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<v Speaker 1>for Kevin's job as a CNBC Digital media executive. Together,

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00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:27.960
<v Speaker 1>the family moved to a picturesque neighborhood in Manhattan, just

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<v Speaker 1>a block away from Central Park. This area is quite

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<v Speaker 1>upscale and known for its very expensive apartments, like extremely

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00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:39.759
<v Speaker 1>expensive apartments, and Kevin had a very demanding job, so

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<v Speaker 1>living here in this area it required him to frequently travel,

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<v Speaker 1>which left Marina to be one of to be the one,

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00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:48.919
<v Speaker 1>you know, at home really taking care of their kids. Now,

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00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:52.960
<v Speaker 1>Lucia and Nessie were solo with mom. But that wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>just to say that, you know, Marina was a stay

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00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:58.279
<v Speaker 1>at home mom. She also taught art classes part time

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00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:00.240
<v Speaker 1>and had a blog for their family where she could

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00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:03.120
<v Speaker 1>actually document and write about their adventures together. And that

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00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:06.399
<v Speaker 1>blog was called Life with the Little crim Kids.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's super cute.

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<v Speaker 1>It is. So she put a lot of effort into this,

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00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:13.399
<v Speaker 1>really documenting things, and I think it's something for like,

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<v Speaker 1>of course blogs are for other people to read, but

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<v Speaker 1>I also think it's.

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<v Speaker 2>Kind of like it was an outlet for her.

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<v Speaker 1>It was, and it's something that you can look back

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00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:22.919
<v Speaker 1>on as your kids are growing up. It's like it's

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00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:25.799
<v Speaker 1>almost like a family album or a journal or something

316
00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:28.120
<v Speaker 1>like that, you know, So it props to her for

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00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.639
<v Speaker 1>doing that. Now, their life was going good, and they

318
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:35.240
<v Speaker 1>were very busy too, but they both worked and they

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00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:38.600
<v Speaker 1>had that family life. And now they were expecting a

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<v Speaker 1>third kid. Oh ding dang, so things were getting even

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<v Speaker 1>busier from them. It was in twenty ten when Marina,

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<v Speaker 1>while pregnant, met with a woman named Celia had a

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<v Speaker 1>dance studio, and that dance studio is when she was

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00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:53.480
<v Speaker 1>dropping off one of her children. Now, Celia, who worked

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00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:56.759
<v Speaker 1>as a nanny for another family, saw Marina and noticed

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00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:59.240
<v Speaker 1>that she was juggling to kids while expecting a third

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<v Speaker 1>and she looked very tired and honestly a little bit overwhelmed.

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<v Speaker 1>So she approached her and struck up a conversation about childcare.

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<v Speaker 1>They talked for a while and Celia recommended her sister, Jocelin. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>She said that if you're thinking about hiring someone for

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<v Speaker 1>a nanny position, she would be a great fit. Marina

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<v Speaker 1>was delighted and they asked, you know, Celia to send

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<v Speaker 1>over Yocelin's resume. So later the Crims received an email

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00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:29.360
<v Speaker 1>with the resume and a reference later that week. Now,

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00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:32.480
<v Speaker 1>the reference was from a family who Yocelyn had previously

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00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:35.360
<v Speaker 1>worked with, and it painted her as an experienced and

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00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:41.320
<v Speaker 1>reliable nanny. However, the problem here was the reference was fake.

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00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:44.600
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't written by a family who she had worked

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00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:46.759
<v Speaker 1>for in the past. In fact, Joscelyn had never even

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00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:49.519
<v Speaker 1>worked as a nanny before. The reference was written by

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00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:53.840
<v Speaker 1>Jocelyn's niece who didn't even have any kids. Oh boy,

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00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:55.799
<v Speaker 1>so she's kind of like fake in the resume sort

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00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:56.080
<v Speaker 1>of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that's uh scary. It definitely is also kind

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00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:03.840
<v Speaker 2>of easy to do. Really.

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00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:07.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So Kevin and Marina decided to interview Yoscelyn after

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00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:10.920
<v Speaker 1>reading through her resume and reference. She sounded great and

348
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:14.400
<v Speaker 1>the interview went well. Despite her lack of experience, they

349
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.599
<v Speaker 1>were unaware that she, you know, didn't work in childcare.

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00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:19.519
<v Speaker 1>She was able to get through the interview, you know,

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00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:22.160
<v Speaker 1>tell them the right things or what she would do.

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00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:25.880
<v Speaker 1>By all accounts, it seemed like she knew what she

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00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:29.640
<v Speaker 1>was doing. Yoscelyn impressed them, which led them to hire

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00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:32.960
<v Speaker 1>her as a part time nanny for the family. Now,

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00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:35.519
<v Speaker 1>her duties primarily involved picking up and dropping off the

356
00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:39.039
<v Speaker 1>children from various places like school or other activities. She

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00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:41.680
<v Speaker 1>worked twenty five hours a week for eighteen dollars an hour,

358
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:45.519
<v Speaker 1>which was paid in cash. Which meant, you know, definitely

359
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:48.519
<v Speaker 1>evading that tax right, which is very helpful.

360
00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:49.519
<v Speaker 2>Makes it seem like a bit more.

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00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:52.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And for reference, the minimum wage at the time

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00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:55.319
<v Speaker 1>in New York was seven dollars and twenty five cents,

363
00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:57.079
<v Speaker 1>so she was making pretty discent money.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well over.

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00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:02.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yostly was and excited and expressed a lot

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00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:05.680
<v Speaker 1>of gratitude for the job and even in the ways

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00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:08.160
<v Speaker 1>that the crims had treated her. So the crims were

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00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:10.720
<v Speaker 1>happy she was doing a good job, and she was

369
00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:13.480
<v Speaker 1>happy because you know, she was like they almost began

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00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:14.680
<v Speaker 1>to treat her as if she was a part of

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00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:17.279
<v Speaker 1>the family too, which I think can happen lots of

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00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:18.440
<v Speaker 1>times with nanny positions.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so they often, you know, they gave her gifts

375
00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:25.440
<v Speaker 1>with like nice gifts too, like an Ann Taylor jacket

376
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:27.920
<v Speaker 1>for example, And they even paid for plane tickets for

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00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.119
<v Speaker 1>her to go back to the Dominican Republic to visit

378
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:31.519
<v Speaker 1>her family and her son.

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00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Yeah, oh that warms my heart. That's awesome.

380
00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:39.839
<v Speaker 1>So soon Marina gave birth to the third child, who

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00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:42.400
<v Speaker 1>was a little boy they named Leo. He was a

382
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:44.759
<v Speaker 1>happy little boy who was enjoying life and seemed to

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00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:47.160
<v Speaker 1>grow up so fast in front of their eyes. And

384
00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:49.039
<v Speaker 1>even as he grew up, there were some notes about

385
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:51.400
<v Speaker 1>him like even having like pine comb collections and stuff

386
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.200
<v Speaker 1>as like a toddler, like little things like that. Right,

387
00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:57.720
<v Speaker 1>And so in February of twenty twelve, the Krim family

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00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:00.640
<v Speaker 1>decided that instead of paying for y'all sin to visit

389
00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:04.440
<v Speaker 1>her family, you know, another one of her trips over

390
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:08.400
<v Speaker 1>to the Dominican, they would instead travel along with her

391
00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:11.799
<v Speaker 1>to go meet her family and covered all the expenses.

392
00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:14.160
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Yeah, okay, So.

393
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:16.720
<v Speaker 1>They're like, you know what, you're not going alone. We're

394
00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:18.839
<v Speaker 1>gonna go with you. It'll be a nice, you know,

395
00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:21.000
<v Speaker 1>opportunity for us to get to know you, get to

396
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:24.039
<v Speaker 1>know your family, our kids meet your son. You know.

397
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:26.279
<v Speaker 1>It's a major bonding experience.

398
00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:27.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's really cool.

399
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So together, they all seem so happy, and they

400
00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:33.240
<v Speaker 1>meshed really well. The Crim children were particularly fond of

401
00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:37.720
<v Speaker 1>yocelin Leo even reportedly sometimes had trouble sleeping without her beside.

402
00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Him, oh my goodness.

403
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:41.720
<v Speaker 1>And Lucia often drew pictures of her, you know, like

404
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:44.359
<v Speaker 1>being part of the family. It was a cohesive and

405
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:49.319
<v Speaker 1>I mean they're not blood family, but they were family.

406
00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:52.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I feel like it doesn't have to be blood

407
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:56.039
<v Speaker 2>to be family. There's chosen family and stuff sometimes is

408
00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:59.359
<v Speaker 2>a bigger deal right now.

409
00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:03.039
<v Speaker 1>The Austlin's family even jokingly remarked that she had four children,

410
00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:05.599
<v Speaker 1>not just one, because of the deep bond with you know,

411
00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:10.559
<v Speaker 1>the Krim kids. Yoscelin's son Hazeus, would at times visit

412
00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:12.240
<v Speaker 1>New York as well as he was getting a little

413
00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:14.920
<v Speaker 1>bit older, and the Crims treated him just as well

414
00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:17.680
<v Speaker 1>as they would Yostlin. They gifted him an iPad and

415
00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:19.759
<v Speaker 1>later paid him to do some dog sitting while they

416
00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:21.640
<v Speaker 1>were away, and allowed him to stay at their home

417
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:23.359
<v Speaker 1>and you know, sleep in the beds in their house.

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00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:27.640
<v Speaker 1>Kevin talked to Hazeus and encouraged him about his future

419
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:31.240
<v Speaker 1>and even in sports. Hazeus appreciated Kevin, even quoting him

420
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:34.359
<v Speaker 1>later on to say, quote, he was a very busy man,

421
00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:37.000
<v Speaker 1>but he made time to talk to me and I

422
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:37.640
<v Speaker 1>valued that.

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00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:41.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, Okay, this is just like this is so nice.

424
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.559
<v Speaker 1>It is. It's very heartwarming, this whole situation.

425
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:45.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

426
00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Now, there was a bit of a life shift for Yoscelin, though.

427
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:49.920
<v Speaker 1>In April of twenty twelve, she had a bit of

428
00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:51.960
<v Speaker 1>a falling out with her sister which led her to

429
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:53.559
<v Speaker 1>be on her own and she was looking for an

430
00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:56.799
<v Speaker 1>apartment by herself. Now, she was thrilled to be moving

431
00:20:56.839 --> 00:20:58.319
<v Speaker 1>out of the place that she had lived in for

432
00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:01.640
<v Speaker 1>nearly thirty years at this point, and she found an

433
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:04.839
<v Speaker 1>apartment in the Bronx. So thirty years she's been, like,

434
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:06.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, staying in the same apartment with her sister

435
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:08.680
<v Speaker 1>in New York. So she's been here for a while.

436
00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:09.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

437
00:21:09.559 --> 00:21:13.400
<v Speaker 1>And by June of that same year, her son even

438
00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:16.319
<v Speaker 1>moved from the Dominican to join her mother in her

439
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:18.000
<v Speaker 1>new place as well, sorry, join.

440
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:19.519
<v Speaker 2>His mother his mother. Yeah wow.

441
00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:22.799
<v Speaker 1>Joscelyn felt confident she was able to provide a comfortable

442
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:25.279
<v Speaker 1>living space for him and even planned for him to

443
00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:29.599
<v Speaker 1>complete high school in the US. Unfortunately, though, the public

444
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:33.440
<v Speaker 1>school system required him to repeat the eleventh grade, which

445
00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:36.279
<v Speaker 1>was a serious unfortunate setback for the young man, and

446
00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:39.240
<v Speaker 1>Joscelyn decided to make the tough choice to enroll him

447
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:41.880
<v Speaker 1>in private school instead so he wouldn't have to complete

448
00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:44.000
<v Speaker 1>the eleventh grade again and just go on for his

449
00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:47.400
<v Speaker 1>final year. And this cost was a total of seven

450
00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:48.680
<v Speaker 1>five hundred dollars.

451
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow. That's quite a bit, hey.

452
00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:53.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So for the first time in her life, Joscelyn

453
00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:57.599
<v Speaker 1>had a sole responsibility for Jesus, and it started off

454
00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:00.839
<v Speaker 1>with a bang signing up for this private school. And

455
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.160
<v Speaker 1>it didn't take long for her new life to change

456
00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:07.960
<v Speaker 1>her financial situation, as it quickly became very strained between rent,

457
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:12.319
<v Speaker 1>living expenses, supporting herself, her seventeen year old son, the

458
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:17.599
<v Speaker 1>debt of paying off the private school m she began

459
00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:20.319
<v Speaker 1>to struggle quite a bit, and eventually she made the

460
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:22.799
<v Speaker 1>difficult decision to give up her apartment and move back

461
00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:27.759
<v Speaker 1>in with her sister. So she lost that independence right now.

462
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:29.720
<v Speaker 1>Though I'm not exactly certain who was living in the

463
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:32.440
<v Speaker 1>apartment now, there were a total of five individuals living

464
00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:35.240
<v Speaker 1>in this three bedroom space. The apartment was described as

465
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:39.400
<v Speaker 1>overcrowded in a stressful environment, and Yaucelyn was upset about

466
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:41.960
<v Speaker 1>losing that independence. I think it was a real big

467
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:45.079
<v Speaker 1>knock to, you know, her pride. She was going to

468
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:48.519
<v Speaker 1>provide for her son first opportunity and she couldn't do it.

469
00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:51.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that makes sense, that's yeah, Like that would be

470
00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:54.079
<v Speaker 2>hard for anyone to kind of swallow, right.

471
00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:57.440
<v Speaker 1>Definitely tough call. So she decided she would ask Marina

472
00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:59.039
<v Speaker 1>if she can get a bit of a raise, and

473
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:02.279
<v Speaker 1>it was agreed that they couldn't actually provide a raise specifically,

474
00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:05.279
<v Speaker 1>but they could pay her for more hours. So they

475
00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:08.240
<v Speaker 1>gave her an additional one hundred dollars for five extra

476
00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:12.079
<v Speaker 1>hours each week. And if you're doing like Monday to Friday,

477
00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:14.480
<v Speaker 1>that's only like one extra hour a day, right. So

478
00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:17.119
<v Speaker 1>Jocelyn accepted this offer and took it more or sorry,

479
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:20.920
<v Speaker 1>took on the more work whenever possible, babysitting and doing

480
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:23.559
<v Speaker 1>whatever the family needed, and even doing some side hustle

481
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:26.559
<v Speaker 1>stuff with selling jewelry and makeup and you know, cooking

482
00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:30.359
<v Speaker 1>meals for events or whatever it was. Yocelin was overwhelmed,

483
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:32.680
<v Speaker 1>though she wasn't working a whole lot for the Krim

484
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:35.359
<v Speaker 1>family with the twenty five hours plus now the extra

485
00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:39.119
<v Speaker 1>five hours, which is thirty hours a week, right, but

486
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.599
<v Speaker 1>with her side hustles and everything, she was often working

487
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:44.839
<v Speaker 1>over twelve hours a day and expressing how tired she

488
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.359
<v Speaker 1>was whenever neighbors even saw her passing in the hallway. Yeah,

489
00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:51.440
<v Speaker 1>Marina was aware she was struggling financially and would recommend

490
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:54.559
<v Speaker 1>Yocelin to friends or family or anyone that she knew

491
00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:58.000
<v Speaker 1>in need of a babysitter. However, this only frustrated Yoscelin,

492
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:00.799
<v Speaker 1>who felt the extra duties cut in her time with

493
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:03.559
<v Speaker 1>Hayesus and left her feeling like she was losing control

494
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:06.839
<v Speaker 1>of her life and ultimately resenting Marina for this.

495
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Really, yes, why she was trying to help though.

496
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:14.720
<v Speaker 1>Yes, but she didn't need more work. She needed more money.

497
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:17.839
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, so she's almost like, you need to give

498
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.000
<v Speaker 1>me a raise, not give me more work. Huh, because

499
00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:25.359
<v Speaker 1>more work means more time away from my son. Yeah,

500
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:27.079
<v Speaker 1>and yeah, so it was like there was this bit

501
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:30.119
<v Speaker 1>of resentment for that. Oh no, yeah, but we'll touch

502
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:33.799
<v Speaker 1>on it a little bit later on again. So still,

503
00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:36.519
<v Speaker 1>Yocelin maintained a professional demeanor at work, even though she

504
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:38.640
<v Speaker 1>was starting to kind of like get that little bit

505
00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:43.440
<v Speaker 1>of like gruffness towards Marina. So she confided her frustrations

506
00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:46.279
<v Speaker 1>only in those who were close to her. Now, to them,

507
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:49.759
<v Speaker 1>Jocelyn seemed to be slowly unraveling mentally. She was losing weight,

508
00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:53.599
<v Speaker 1>looked gaunt or frail, and was frequently extremely tired. And

509
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:57.440
<v Speaker 1>even at points they would see, you're quite tearful. Now,

510
00:24:57.480 --> 00:24:59.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if that's like just watery eyes or

511
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:03.519
<v Speaker 1>she's actually we crying physically, but regardless, I think it's

512
00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:08.079
<v Speaker 1>the same outcome. Her once happy attitude seemed to change

513
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:11.319
<v Speaker 1>as well. She stopped greeting people enthusiastically with a smile,

514
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.920
<v Speaker 1>stopped listening to the music that she always listened to

515
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:17.799
<v Speaker 1>on a daily basis, and began experiencing insomnia. The vibrant

516
00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:21.839
<v Speaker 1>person she once knew once was just seemed to be gone.

517
00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:25.839
<v Speaker 1>In her small, cramp bedroom in the apartment with total

518
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:30.279
<v Speaker 1>of five people, Joscelyn described seeing once again shadowy figures

519
00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:34.920
<v Speaker 1>moving around at night, whispering threats, telling her things, saying

520
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:37.519
<v Speaker 1>that they're going to harm her. It seemed, after all

521
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.559
<v Speaker 1>these years, she was still unable to shake that horrible evil.

522
00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:43.680
<v Speaker 1>When she wasn't working, she spent most of her free

523
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:45.920
<v Speaker 1>time in that room. Her sister said she could often

524
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:48.839
<v Speaker 1>hear her in that room praying, and Yoscelyn kept her

525
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:51.440
<v Speaker 1>mental health struggles hidden from the Krim family and continued

526
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:55.599
<v Speaker 1>to perform her duties as best as she could. Over

527
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Labor Day weekend in twenty twelve, Yoscelyn was offered some

528
00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:02.039
<v Speaker 1>extra work by a friend of Marina. After working one day,

529
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:05.519
<v Speaker 1>Joscelin said she can no longer do the job. Instead,

530
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:09.039
<v Speaker 1>a friend of hers would be taking over instead. Marina

531
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:12.759
<v Speaker 1>felt betrayed. She gave Yostlin a very good recommendation to

532
00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.480
<v Speaker 1>the friend. She felt she put her own name on

533
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.160
<v Speaker 1>the line for Joscelin, and she felt that she was

534
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:21.440
<v Speaker 1>let down. The next day, Marina confronted Yocelin during a

535
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:24.519
<v Speaker 1>school drop off with the kids, reportedly telling her quote,

536
00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:28.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to see your face right now. Oh wow,

537
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:29.720
<v Speaker 1>so there's some tension building up.

538
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no kidding, Now there are some.

539
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:34.000
<v Speaker 1>Other people around, you know, like there's other parents or

540
00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:37.559
<v Speaker 1>kids or nanny's or whoever. Yeah, And Yostin kind of

541
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.759
<v Speaker 1>felt publicly humiliated from this, and she sat down on

542
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:44.200
<v Speaker 1>a bench park and just asking herself and just saying,

543
00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:47.039
<v Speaker 1>what did I do wrong? I did everything for her?

544
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:50.319
<v Speaker 1>How can she ignore me? After everything? Even washing her

545
00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:54.799
<v Speaker 1>underwear for two years? So she felt betrayed too.

546
00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Wow, I mean, yeah, this is actually a bit surprising

547
00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:01.279
<v Speaker 2>because it seemed like they had bill their relationship pretty

548
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:06.680
<v Speaker 2>strongly for these things to be happening, right, But they're

549
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:08.599
<v Speaker 2>not really talking them through. I guess either.

550
00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:12.079
<v Speaker 1>No, definitely not. But yeah, each one is building up

551
00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:14.200
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more resentment for the other, and with

552
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:18.680
<v Speaker 1>each situation that occurs, it's probably just growing with them, right,

553
00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:23.440
<v Speaker 1>They're harboring more and more and they're not figuring it

554
00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:27.079
<v Speaker 1>out or solving it. Now, Yostlin's work performance began to

555
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:30.359
<v Speaker 1>seriously decline, perhaps not only by her mental health, but

556
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.519
<v Speaker 1>also with the sort of situation and tension that's beginning

557
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:36.960
<v Speaker 1>to grow between her and Marina. But now she was

558
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:40.359
<v Speaker 1>approached once again by Marina and warned that they might

559
00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:43.160
<v Speaker 1>have to let her go to find someone else if

560
00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:47.599
<v Speaker 1>things didn't improve with her performance. By this point, Yocelyn's

561
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:51.440
<v Speaker 1>mental health was taking a serious dive. Her family members

562
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:55.640
<v Speaker 1>recounted several disturbing incidents with her. In one, while visiting

563
00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:58.759
<v Speaker 1>a friend, she appeared too faint, losing consciousness while her

564
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:03.240
<v Speaker 1>eyes remained why open, Oh boy. Another time, she collapsed

565
00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:05.640
<v Speaker 1>like almost as if her knees just like gave out

566
00:28:05.720 --> 00:28:09.440
<v Speaker 1>underneath her, again with her eyes still wide open. Her

567
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:12.279
<v Speaker 1>sister once found her in the early mornings at about

568
00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:14.559
<v Speaker 1>like four am, banging her head against the wall and

569
00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:20.880
<v Speaker 1>pulling against her hair, crying, wishing, praying, yeah, not good.

570
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:23.599
<v Speaker 1>Joscelyn finally made the decision though, to seek out some

571
00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:26.440
<v Speaker 1>mental health help, and she made an appointment with a

572
00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.839
<v Speaker 1>psychologist in October twenty second of that year. Now, during

573
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:35.000
<v Speaker 1>the forty five minute session, she didn't mention any hallucinations

574
00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:39.920
<v Speaker 1>or psychosis, nothing about voices, nothing about shadow figures, but

575
00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:43.880
<v Speaker 1>instead focused on the high stress levels, the anxiety about

576
00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:46.839
<v Speaker 1>her work, her relationship with her son, and her sense

577
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:52.119
<v Speaker 1>of failing to provide for him. A psychologist noted these things,

578
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:57.000
<v Speaker 1>but never anything about displaying signs of hallucinations, psychotic episodes,

579
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:02.519
<v Speaker 1>anything in that regard. So on October twenty fourth, more

580
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:06.119
<v Speaker 1>stress will be piled on Jocelyn. Mareena expressed some more

581
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:10.400
<v Speaker 1>concerns over for her not engaging enough with the children,

582
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.720
<v Speaker 1>which I mean explains if someone's going through depression and

583
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:16.440
<v Speaker 1>stuff that sounds about right, and also for giving them

584
00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:19.599
<v Speaker 1>junk food when she explicitly told him told her not

585
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:22.759
<v Speaker 1>to give them this food, right m h. It seemed

586
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:25.119
<v Speaker 1>this would be the breaking point for Yoscelin in this

587
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:29.000
<v Speaker 1>encounter with Marina. That night, Jocelyn took a lot of

588
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:32.559
<v Speaker 1>pain meds for a headache that she was suffering. Headaches

589
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:35.519
<v Speaker 1>that she'd been suffering for for a long time. She

590
00:29:35.559 --> 00:29:37.880
<v Speaker 1>spoke with her sister and told her to take good

591
00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:40.119
<v Speaker 1>care of her son and told her to raise him

592
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:45.319
<v Speaker 1>well and expressed her love for what she had for Hazeus.

593
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.880
<v Speaker 1>The following morning, on October twenty fifth, Joscelyn texted Hayesus

594
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:50.759
<v Speaker 1>to confirm that he'd gotten on the bus for school

595
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:54.799
<v Speaker 1>just like any other day, and he did. And before

596
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:57.720
<v Speaker 1>leaving for the Krim House, Jocelyn hung up a purse

597
00:29:58.119 --> 00:30:02.759
<v Speaker 1>on her sister's bedroom door. Now inside that purse there

598
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:06.839
<v Speaker 1>was family heirlooms. Photos of her deceased late mother, her

599
00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:10.519
<v Speaker 1>mother's passport, social Security card, a chain that belonged to

600
00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:13.799
<v Speaker 1>her mother, a broken ring and earring, Jesus's baby teeth,

601
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:15.880
<v Speaker 1>a picture of him as a baby, as well as

602
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:20.119
<v Speaker 1>childhood photos of her sister, her family. It was all

603
00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:24.599
<v Speaker 1>of Joscelyn's prized possessions put inside of this purse.

604
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, my chest is feeling real tight right now.

605
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:29.720
<v Speaker 1>It probably should.

606
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:31.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh shit.

607
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.319
<v Speaker 1>Joscelyn also visited a neighbor and left an envelope addressed

608
00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:40.160
<v Speaker 1>to her sister. The envelope contained her debit card, driver's license,

609
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:44.039
<v Speaker 1>to insurance cards, passport, social Security card, blood donor card,

610
00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:47.799
<v Speaker 1>bank papers, and one hundred dollars in cash, not that

611
00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:50.000
<v Speaker 1>the neighbor knew that, right, It was a rest to

612
00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:53.119
<v Speaker 1>her sister, so it'd be open later. But Jocelyn was

613
00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:58.519
<v Speaker 1>apparently kind of like, like, I don't understand this statement,

614
00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:00.599
<v Speaker 1>gnashing her teeth. I think, like kind of.

615
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Like grinding her teeth.

616
00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:05.480
<v Speaker 1>Or maybe like yeah, like I don't know, like gaping

617
00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:07.400
<v Speaker 1>her mouth a little bit and just doing some weird

618
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:10.400
<v Speaker 1>stuff with her mouth. Anyways, her eyes were darting around,

619
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:12.720
<v Speaker 1>she was pacing back and forth and just acting really

620
00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:16.359
<v Speaker 1>weird during this visit, and Jocelyn from there would take

621
00:31:16.359 --> 00:31:18.799
<v Speaker 1>the train to the Krim family home. When she got

622
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:22.720
<v Speaker 1>got there, Marine explained the afternoon plans y Austin was

623
00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:25.119
<v Speaker 1>to take two year old Leo and pick up six

624
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:27.799
<v Speaker 1>year old Lucia from school and then escort Lucia to

625
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:31.680
<v Speaker 1>her ballet class and return home with Leo for his nap. Meanwhile,

626
00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:33.759
<v Speaker 1>Marina planned to take three year old NeSSI to her

627
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:35.960
<v Speaker 1>swim class and then pick up Lucia from ballet at

628
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:37.440
<v Speaker 1>five and then head home.

629
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:41.599
<v Speaker 2>Gosh, that's so much ay, Like, well, I mean it is,

630
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:44.720
<v Speaker 2>but it's once you have like two adults taking care

631
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:47.000
<v Speaker 2>of this and a routine and stuff. Yeah, but I'm

632
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:47.839
<v Speaker 2>just like, oly shit.

633
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:54.039
<v Speaker 1>So Yocelin takes Leo, picks up Lucia and then takes

634
00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:57.240
<v Speaker 1>her to ballet and then takes Leo home. That's all.

635
00:31:57.279 --> 00:31:59.680
<v Speaker 2>It's four steps okay, okay, yeah, and.

636
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:03.200
<v Speaker 1>Then Maria was taking NeSSI to swim class, picking up

637
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Lucia from ballet, and then home three steps.

638
00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, there you go, look at you.

639
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:08.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

640
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Here, I'm just like, holy shit, what am I supposed

641
00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:11.680
<v Speaker 2>to do?

642
00:32:12.759 --> 00:32:17.119
<v Speaker 1>Drop off, pick up home? That's it? So Yaucelin followed

643
00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:19.799
<v Speaker 1>the plan picking up Lucia from school, but instead of

644
00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:22.720
<v Speaker 1>heading to ballet class, she took the children to Central

645
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:26.359
<v Speaker 1>Park for ice cream. Marina left the house at four

646
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:29.960
<v Speaker 1>pm with NeSSI. After the swim class, Marina and NeSSI

647
00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:32.359
<v Speaker 1>went to the ballet studio to pick up Lucia Yeah,

648
00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:34.680
<v Speaker 1>only to discover she never arrived.

649
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Oo no, no, no.

650
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:40.519
<v Speaker 1>Marina became anxious and worried right away because Yoscelin had

651
00:32:40.599 --> 00:32:42.240
<v Speaker 1>always been dependable.

652
00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

653
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:45.920
<v Speaker 1>Marina texts y Austlin asking where where she was, where

654
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:47.759
<v Speaker 1>the kids were, but there was no response. She even

655
00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:52.240
<v Speaker 1>texts again in Spanish quote where are you? But still nothing.

656
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:57.079
<v Speaker 1>She was getting really worried, so Marina rushed home with

657
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:01.079
<v Speaker 1>NeSSI and upon arriving to your partment, calling out for

658
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:05.720
<v Speaker 1>her a children, she saw Leo's stroller and Lucia's dance bag,

659
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:09.160
<v Speaker 1>but heard nothing coming from inside the home. It was silent.

660
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:12.880
<v Speaker 1>Marina went back down to the dorman who was tending,

661
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:14.839
<v Speaker 1>you know, the apartment building at the front entrance, letting

662
00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:17.000
<v Speaker 1>people in and out, you know, ensuring everything's all good.

663
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:19.640
<v Speaker 1>And the dorman said that Joscelyn and the kids had

664
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:22.720
<v Speaker 1>returned earlier and should be in the apartment. So Marina

665
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:26.000
<v Speaker 1>immediately went back up to the apartment and began searching,

666
00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:32.200
<v Speaker 1>and it didn't take long before she made a brutal discovery.

667
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:37.880
<v Speaker 1>In her own words, Marina said this quote, it was

668
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:40.640
<v Speaker 1>like a horror movie. I walked down the hall and

669
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.559
<v Speaker 1>saw the light under the door. It was so quiet,

670
00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:48.000
<v Speaker 1>too quiet. I opened the door and saw Lulu. I

671
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:51.640
<v Speaker 1>knew she was dead. She was lying in the bathtub

672
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:55.799
<v Speaker 1>with her eyes open. Leo was next to her, and

673
00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:59.480
<v Speaker 1>they had blood on them. Then I saw Joscelin covered

674
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:02.759
<v Speaker 1>in blood with her eyes wide open. All I remember

675
00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:05.799
<v Speaker 1>is saying I hate you. I screamed a scream I

676
00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:08.199
<v Speaker 1>didn't know was inside of me. I thought, I'll never

677
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:11.639
<v Speaker 1>talk to them again. They're gone. I just saw my

678
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:13.039
<v Speaker 1>kids dead.

679
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:16.119
<v Speaker 2>Holely.

680
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:22.320
<v Speaker 1>Upon seeing Marina, Yoscelin stabbed herself in the throat to

681
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.800
<v Speaker 1>end her own life.

682
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:32.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, what so she wasn't actually dead, Jocelin? No, but

683
00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:35.880
<v Speaker 2>then she who killed she? Then she killed herself?

684
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes, once Marina came in, Oh no, Lynn put a

685
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:42.079
<v Speaker 1>knife into her throat.

686
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

687
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:49.679
<v Speaker 1>Marina grabbed NeSSI and immediately fled, collapsing in the hallway

688
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:53.719
<v Speaker 1>of the apartment complex while screaming. A neighbor described hearing

689
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:56.960
<v Speaker 1>a blood curdling scream and finding her hunched over NeSSI

690
00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:01.039
<v Speaker 1>going back and forth between calming NeSSI down and trying

691
00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:04.360
<v Speaker 1>to calm herself down. Realizing of what the fuck just happened.

692
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:09.360
<v Speaker 1>The dorman called nine one one, and the building superintendent,

693
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:14.679
<v Speaker 1>Michael Minniha rushed to the apartment. He found Joscelyn staring

694
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:17.960
<v Speaker 1>into a bathroom mirror, blood pouring from her throat as

695
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:21.039
<v Speaker 1>she stared deep into her own eyes. He could see

696
00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:27.000
<v Speaker 1>the children's bodies and blood everywhere. Michael left the apartment

697
00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:30.000
<v Speaker 1>and barricaded the door shut until police made their way

698
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:33.119
<v Speaker 1>and arrived, both so no one would see the absolute

699
00:35:33.159 --> 00:35:38.079
<v Speaker 1>horrors behind it and to ensure Yoslin didn't escape. The

700
00:35:38.119 --> 00:35:41.719
<v Speaker 1>first responding officer found Michael holding the door shut, describing

701
00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:45.800
<v Speaker 1>him as pale and sweating and saying, quote, whatever is

702
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:48.840
<v Speaker 1>behind that door is pure evil.

703
00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:52.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh, this is just like making me feel ill.

704
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:55.320
<v Speaker 2>This is unreal.

705
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:57.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a fucking ride, I can tell you that

706
00:35:57.679 --> 00:35:58.199
<v Speaker 1>much right now.

707
00:35:58.239 --> 00:35:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

708
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:03.559
<v Speaker 1>The officers entered securing the apartment room by room, They

709
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:06.800
<v Speaker 1>found Joscelyn now laying on the floor, barely conscious, with

710
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:10.920
<v Speaker 1>a bloody knife beside her. One officer removed the children

711
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:13.719
<v Speaker 1>from the bathtub where they were laying, fearing they might

712
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:16.480
<v Speaker 1>actually slip from his hands due to the sheer amount

713
00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:17.320
<v Speaker 1>of blood.

714
00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:19.119
<v Speaker 2>Wow okay.

715
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:23.599
<v Speaker 1>Reportedly, the officers were even worried that the children's heads

716
00:36:23.719 --> 00:36:26.800
<v Speaker 1>may become fully decapitated and fall off due to the

717
00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:29.960
<v Speaker 1>intense gravity of the stab wounds. They sustained.

718
00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, because okay, Well that answers the question. I was like, well,

719
00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:38.440
<v Speaker 2>are we certain that they're dead? But okay, yeah, yeah

720
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:38.760
<v Speaker 2>we are.

721
00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:45.320
<v Speaker 1>Though the efforts to resuscitate them both did occur, they

722
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:50.159
<v Speaker 1>were pronounced dead. Marina was taken to the hospital with

723
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:53.199
<v Speaker 1>NeSSI she had to be sedated due to the shock

724
00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:56.840
<v Speaker 1>of what just occurred in what she saw, dang. Both

725
00:36:56.920 --> 00:37:00.599
<v Speaker 1>children had multiple stab wounds and slash wounds. Leo had

726
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:03.320
<v Speaker 1>five wounds and a slit throat, while Lucia had over

727
00:37:03.400 --> 00:37:08.400
<v Speaker 1>thirty injuries, indicating a very violent struggle. The medical examiner

728
00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:12.920
<v Speaker 1>confirmed they both died of blood loss, which means they

729
00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:14.280
<v Speaker 1>were conscious of what happened.

730
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:23.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, she was the oldest one, right, I believe

731
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:27.599
<v Speaker 2>so yes, yeah, oh my gosh, ben okay.

732
00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:32.559
<v Speaker 1>Kevin was returning home from a flight from being away

733
00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:35.400
<v Speaker 1>at work and was at the JFK airport and he

734
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:39.400
<v Speaker 1>was escorted by NYPD officers and was informed of what happened.

735
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:42.960
<v Speaker 1>Yoslin was also taken to the hospital as she clung

736
00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:46.920
<v Speaker 1>to life and underwent surgery for her injuries. She survived.

737
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:51.440
<v Speaker 1>Once she regained consciousness. After surgery, Yoscelin was able to

738
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:54.719
<v Speaker 1>communicate for the first time since she attacked. She was

739
00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:57.440
<v Speaker 1>able to say she was unable to speak, but was

740
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:00.679
<v Speaker 1>given an alphabet board to communicate. She spelled out a

741
00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:05.480
<v Speaker 1>message quote, I had to do everything and take care

742
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:08.960
<v Speaker 1>of the kids. I worked as a babysitter only, and

743
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.119
<v Speaker 1>she wanted me to do everything. She wanted five hours

744
00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:15.920
<v Speaker 1>of cleaning every week. My schedule every day is different, boss,

745
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:19.159
<v Speaker 1>Marina every day has a different schedule for me.

746
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit. So here she's conscious and like that's her

747
00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:27.519
<v Speaker 2>fucking message. She just killed two kids.

748
00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:28.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

749
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

750
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:32.159
<v Speaker 1>She didn't make any mention of voices, didn't make any

751
00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:36.559
<v Speaker 1>mention of shadow people or demons. She only mentioned the

752
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:40.679
<v Speaker 1>resentment for Marina. Not concerned for the children, not what

753
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:44.920
<v Speaker 1>just happened, just the resentment for Marina.

754
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:48.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm like shook right now. This is like so shocking,

755
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:52.519
<v Speaker 2>so unexpected, so fucked up.

756
00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:54.119
<v Speaker 1>Now, you know why. I was like, oh, yeah, I'll

757
00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:55.800
<v Speaker 1>probably do this case soon. And I was like I'm

758
00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:57.000
<v Speaker 1>doing this case real soon.

759
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:01.360
<v Speaker 2>Wow, Okay. I was just like, Wow, this family's so

760
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:08.719
<v Speaker 2>dope and now and now it's just completely destroyed. Yeah.

761
00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Yostlin was charged with two counts of first degree murder,

762
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:16.000
<v Speaker 1>and a month after her arrest, her defense team entered

763
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:19.559
<v Speaker 1>a plea of not guilty by reason of mental defect

764
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:25.840
<v Speaker 1>or disease. So they're saying, yeah, she's right. Many evaluations

765
00:39:26.239 --> 00:39:29.000
<v Speaker 1>both from the defending and prosecuting side, would occur in

766
00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:34.199
<v Speaker 1>order to investigate this claim, and throughout these evaluations for

767
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:37.599
<v Speaker 1>years after, Joscelyn blamed Marina for what happened to her

768
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:41.119
<v Speaker 1>children and for many of the personal problems she encountered

769
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:44.639
<v Speaker 1>as well. Now, the prosecution argued that Yocelyn did not

770
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:47.840
<v Speaker 1>have a mental defect or disease. Instead, she harbored intense

771
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:52.719
<v Speaker 1>hatred for Marina, believing that she resented her employer's expectations.

772
00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:55.320
<v Speaker 1>They stated that she was upset Marina suggests that she

773
00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:58.400
<v Speaker 1>worked extra hours instead of increasing her pay without any

774
00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:02.920
<v Speaker 1>added responsibilities. Basically, you made me work for money instead

775
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:04.519
<v Speaker 1>of just giving me more money as a raise.

776
00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:08.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't. That's not how the world works.

777
00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:11.559
<v Speaker 1>So here, no, I mean we all want to fucking raise.

778
00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:13.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, who the hell doesn't want to raise?

779
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:15.559
<v Speaker 1>And usually if we get a raise, you're getting like, hey,

780
00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:17.239
<v Speaker 1>here's twenty five cents extra.

781
00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:20.320
<v Speaker 2>If that's it's like ten cents or some shit, right,

782
00:40:20.599 --> 00:40:22.000
<v Speaker 2>like gosh, So she.

783
00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:24.519
<v Speaker 1>Held feelings of They also claim she held feelings of

784
00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:27.400
<v Speaker 1>inadequacy about providing for her son as well, and that

785
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:30.800
<v Speaker 1>she became increasingly jealous of Marina's ability to provide for

786
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:33.559
<v Speaker 1>her children and a life that she could not provide

787
00:40:33.559 --> 00:40:37.719
<v Speaker 1>for her own Sonjeseus, Which that one makes a lot

788
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:39.920
<v Speaker 1>of sense to me, a lot.

789
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:41.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it ain't right.

790
00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:44.360
<v Speaker 1>That's no, it's not. But if you take that and

791
00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:46.800
<v Speaker 1>also couple it with the idea of she's like, well,

792
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:49.519
<v Speaker 1>give me a raise, she's looking at this really well

793
00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:52.840
<v Speaker 1>off family with these really happy kids who spend time

794
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:55.159
<v Speaker 1>with their kids, who are doing everything. She's like, you

795
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:59.519
<v Speaker 1>can afford it. Yeah, And so she's like, I hate

796
00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:03.599
<v Speaker 1>that you can provide and you're not providing for me,

797
00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:07.320
<v Speaker 1>so I can provide. I think that's a very big

798
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:11.719
<v Speaker 1>piece to this puzzle. Yocelyn fixated on the idea that

799
00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:14.440
<v Speaker 1>the extra work was causing her son to suffer, which

800
00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:19.920
<v Speaker 1>fueled her rage and hatred the prosecution. Sorry this whole

801
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:23.280
<v Speaker 1>prosecution also culminated into the moment when she attacked and

802
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:26.760
<v Speaker 1>Yolson waited for Marina to discover the gruesome scene in

803
00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:30.639
<v Speaker 1>the bathroom, only attempting to take her own life after

804
00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:34.519
<v Speaker 1>witnessing Marina's anguish herself ensuring that she got gratification for

805
00:41:34.599 --> 00:41:37.800
<v Speaker 1>the gruesome actions that she just did. So that's what

806
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:42.480
<v Speaker 1>they're saying, is like you you were waiting, you knew you.

807
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:46.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, because that's like, that's just fucked up to

808
00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:49.880
<v Speaker 2>want to see the pain I know, of seeing her

809
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:51.079
<v Speaker 2>two kids dead.

810
00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:54.719
<v Speaker 1>Which it makes sense. She she held resentment for Marina,

811
00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:57.679
<v Speaker 1>she didn't hold resentment against the kids. She took it

812
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:01.400
<v Speaker 1>out on the kids, and she wanted to see her reaction.

813
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:05.320
<v Speaker 1>She wanted that gratification of seeing Marina suffer.

814
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:12.239
<v Speaker 2>Well, that is just like the ultimate of suffering. Though,

815
00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:15.039
<v Speaker 2>like I and I thought that she had like a

816
00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:18.719
<v Speaker 2>love for the kids, you know, so it's so bizarre

817
00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:20.039
<v Speaker 2>that she could physically do that.

818
00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:24.039
<v Speaker 1>I know them, I know in court, the defense team

819
00:42:24.079 --> 00:42:27.199
<v Speaker 1>would bring up the idea of the voices and the demons. Now,

820
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:29.440
<v Speaker 1>this is where I need to make a very big clarification.

821
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Up until now, there was never any mention of these things.

822
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:39.599
<v Speaker 1>No one knew of them, not doctors, not the Krim family.

823
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:45.199
<v Speaker 1>Only in court when defending her apparent mental state or

824
00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:48.239
<v Speaker 1>disease or whatever you want to call it. Did these

825
00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:54.079
<v Speaker 1>demons and voices ever get brought up. There's no history

826
00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:54.320
<v Speaker 1>of it.

827
00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

828
00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:57.599
<v Speaker 1>In fact, I even mentioned her seeking psychiatric help at

829
00:42:57.599 --> 00:42:58.119
<v Speaker 1>one point.

830
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:00.760
<v Speaker 2>But yeh, she never stayed in, never.

831
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:06.199
<v Speaker 1>Stated huh, these claims she was suffering from this for years,

832
00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:10.679
<v Speaker 1>there's no proof of it. There's nothing of it. She

833
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:13.559
<v Speaker 1>did have some family members saying, yeah, yeah, you know,

834
00:43:13.639 --> 00:43:16.199
<v Speaker 1>this is the case that totally happened, but there's not

835
00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:19.599
<v Speaker 1>like sure, why didn't you guys say anything until now,

836
00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Like even when this occurred, nothing of it was brought up.

837
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:27.039
<v Speaker 1>Only in court when this is like the defense has

838
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:27.760
<v Speaker 1>it been brought up?

839
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which doesn't look good at all.

840
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:34.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now they also claim that she was suffering from this,

841
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:38.320
<v Speaker 1>of course for years, but she also had no memory

842
00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:40.880
<v Speaker 1>of the tack because she believed she was possessed by

843
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:44.639
<v Speaker 1>a devil during it. Now the prosecution struck back and asked, well,

844
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:46.960
<v Speaker 1>she has no memory of it, then, why was her

845
00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:51.920
<v Speaker 1>first thoughts upon waking up to explain her actions? Explain

846
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:54.840
<v Speaker 1>why she was angry at Marina instead of inquiring and

847
00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:57.280
<v Speaker 1>asking about the children, or ask what happened? Or ask

848
00:43:57.440 --> 00:44:04.599
<v Speaker 1>why did she here? Yeah? Oh okay, Yeah, So they're like,

849
00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:07.039
<v Speaker 1>she was very conscious and very aware what she was doing.

850
00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and she was hopeful that she was also going

851
00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:12.639
<v Speaker 2>to be taking her own life, I suppose.

852
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:16.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, pivotal moment in this case came during the

853
00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:20.360
<v Speaker 1>trial when the court played a recording of an interview

854
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:24.480
<v Speaker 1>between Jocelyn and the States expert psychologists. So, when they'd

855
00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:27.079
<v Speaker 1>made this claim initially, I said, for some years, there

856
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:31.039
<v Speaker 1>was psychologists on both sides, you know, interviewing and analyzing

857
00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:33.760
<v Speaker 1>and all this sort of stuff with her. So despite

858
00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:36.880
<v Speaker 1>her defense team claiming that, you know, she had these

859
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:39.960
<v Speaker 1>symptoms and all this sort of stuff, this recording of

860
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:45.800
<v Speaker 1>the state's evaluation went as such, So the evaluator said, quote,

861
00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:49.559
<v Speaker 1>any recollection of hearing voices or voice telling you to

862
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:55.960
<v Speaker 1>kill the children? Joslyn said no. She was asked, ever,

863
00:44:56.760 --> 00:45:00.599
<v Speaker 1>she replied no, I love the children very much a lot.

864
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:05.079
<v Speaker 1>She was asked, So, you never received any instruction or

865
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:09.039
<v Speaker 1>voices that today's the day to kill the children? She

866
00:45:09.159 --> 00:45:12.800
<v Speaker 1>replied no. She was asked, you never saw a devil?

867
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:17.599
<v Speaker 1>She replied no. She was asked, had a visual image

868
00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:21.760
<v Speaker 1>of the devil? She replied no. Did you experience seeing

869
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:30.360
<v Speaker 1>men in black appearing? No, She herself denied the very

870
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:37.119
<v Speaker 1>existence of these hallucinations, these demons. Yeah, in her own words,

871
00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:39.920
<v Speaker 1>when she first woke up, she explained exactly why she

872
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:43.280
<v Speaker 1>did this. Yeah, In this interview, she's debunking the very

873
00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:47.119
<v Speaker 1>defense that they are coming up with in court that

874
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:48.039
<v Speaker 1>never happened.

875
00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:51.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, so that's just confusing to me. Why is

876
00:45:51.639 --> 00:45:52.679
<v Speaker 2>she lying about that?

877
00:45:53.719 --> 00:45:56.280
<v Speaker 1>Like, I don't think she's lying about it. I think

878
00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:58.039
<v Speaker 1>her defense team is lying about.

879
00:45:57.880 --> 00:46:01.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, but so, did she actually ever hear voices and stuff?

880
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:05.760
<v Speaker 1>No, yes, she was going through depression. Yes, she had

881
00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:09.960
<v Speaker 1>some very serious mental health issues. But she never heard voices.

882
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:15.639
<v Speaker 1>She even said that gave this little interview. So you

883
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:19.000
<v Speaker 1>never received any instruction or voices that today's a day

884
00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:22.280
<v Speaker 1>to kill the children. Any recollection of hearing voices or

885
00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:23.840
<v Speaker 1>voices telling you to kill the children?

886
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:24.039
<v Speaker 2>No?

887
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:24.519
<v Speaker 1>And no.

888
00:46:26.039 --> 00:46:30.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so she still may have heard voices, but just

889
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:33.199
<v Speaker 2>not in you know, to do this to the children.

890
00:46:33.400 --> 00:46:37.519
<v Speaker 1>Potentially, I guess, as far as I'm aware in my research,

891
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:40.840
<v Speaker 1>there's no proof that you ever heard any voices.

892
00:46:41.719 --> 00:46:43.719
<v Speaker 2>Hmmm. Shit.

893
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.280
<v Speaker 1>The jury Sorry. The trial would last a total of

894
00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:52.480
<v Speaker 1>six weeks, but eventually the jury found Joscelyn guilty of

895
00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:55.679
<v Speaker 1>one count of first degree murder and another of second

896
00:46:55.679 --> 00:46:59.840
<v Speaker 1>degree murder, sentencing her to life in prison without the

897
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:01.679
<v Speaker 1>possibility of parole.

898
00:47:02.559 --> 00:47:04.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I would say so.

899
00:47:04.360 --> 00:47:08.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that is the story of the Krim family murders.

900
00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:16.719
<v Speaker 2>That is just who Yeah, that's It's like, I'm I

901
00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:18.679
<v Speaker 2>actually almost feel like I'm a bit in shock here.

902
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:22.519
<v Speaker 2>I didn't well rightfully, So, I mean, I know this

903
00:47:22.599 --> 00:47:25.559
<v Speaker 2>is a true grim podcast, but it's just like, wow,

904
00:47:26.800 --> 00:47:29.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't yeah, wow, I mean, how else do you

905
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:31.800
<v Speaker 2>even describe that. I'm shocked that she actually killed two

906
00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:34.800
<v Speaker 2>of the kids, I know, these two innocent little kids.

907
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:38.199
<v Speaker 1>Clearly she was suffering from from mental health issues, like

908
00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:42.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm not doubting that one ounce, but she was not

909
00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:46.800
<v Speaker 1>suffering from psychosis. That is clear. She was clearly fit

910
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:49.440
<v Speaker 1>enough to found fit enough to stand trial, yeah, one

911
00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:54.119
<v Speaker 1>hundred percent. So whatever she was experiencing, she went from

912
00:47:54.760 --> 00:47:58.679
<v Speaker 1>being a member of the family family even still saying

913
00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:03.360
<v Speaker 1>in her own freaking words, I loved the children very

914
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:08.400
<v Speaker 1>much a lot. Yeah, she went from that to cutting

915
00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:13.440
<v Speaker 1>their throats and waiting to see their mother's expression on

916
00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:14.000
<v Speaker 1>her face.

917
00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, man, yeah, yeah, that this just makes me

918
00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:24.280
<v Speaker 2>feel ill. And you know, because mental health or not,

919
00:48:24.480 --> 00:48:28.679
<v Speaker 2>like it doesn't it just it's not an excuse for

920
00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:29.199
<v Speaker 2>these kind of.

921
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:33.119
<v Speaker 1>As though it's not. It may lend some understanding and

922
00:48:33.159 --> 00:48:35.599
<v Speaker 1>where someone's headspace is or what they're going through. But

923
00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:39.119
<v Speaker 1>it's not an excuse. It's never an excuse. You you

924
00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:41.559
<v Speaker 1>hurt someone, you hurt them.

925
00:48:41.800 --> 00:48:51.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I don't like, I'm sorry, I'm just like

926
00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:53.079
<v Speaker 2>flabbergasted a little bit.

927
00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:54.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're taken a back.

928
00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:56.719
<v Speaker 2>I feel so sorry for that family. And you know,

929
00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.559
<v Speaker 2>now that their family have three, I can imagine the

930
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:03.679
<v Speaker 2>ship that they have to get get through and over

931
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:05.840
<v Speaker 2>and well, I mean they're never gonna get over it.

932
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:07.000
<v Speaker 2>But you know what I mean, I.

933
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:09.639
<v Speaker 1>Can't imagine they're probably ever going to hire a nanny again.

934
00:49:09.880 --> 00:49:13.559
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm, yep. I think you're probably very much so right.

935
00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:16.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, they're one kid too, Like the amount that

936
00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:20.800
<v Speaker 2>they're going forward like protecting this kid right like, her

937
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:24.320
<v Speaker 2>life is going to drastically change too, because the parents,

938
00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:28.920
<v Speaker 2>unrightfully show were just like terrified of probably anything and

939
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:30.199
<v Speaker 2>everything happening to her.

940
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:33.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah him, it was Leo Leo.

941
00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:36.000
<v Speaker 2>I thought Leo died or was it?

942
00:49:36.199 --> 00:49:43.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, that's right, that's right, Okay, right, Sorry, my apologies. Yeah, yeah,

943
00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:47.039
<v Speaker 1>so yeah, that was a heavy case. Thanks Darcy for

944
00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:49.159
<v Speaker 1>putting you onto that one. That was something.

945
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:52.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've never heard of that one. Wow.

946
00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:56.320
<v Speaker 1>I've been trying to find some different types of cases recently,

947
00:49:56.679 --> 00:50:00.639
<v Speaker 1>and it's I've come to this realization that the amount

948
00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:06.880
<v Speaker 1>of times children are victimized in true crime is exponentially

949
00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:10.119
<v Speaker 1>far too great. Like they don't get me wrong, like

950
00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:12.480
<v Speaker 1>one is too many. But it seems like when I

951
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:14.639
<v Speaker 1>come across a case, I'm like, oh, this sounds interesting.

952
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:18.079
<v Speaker 1>The children are the victims, and it's a consistent the

953
00:50:18.199 --> 00:50:21.760
<v Speaker 1>children are the victims, and it's beginning to absolutely fucking

954
00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:22.440
<v Speaker 1>terrify me.

955
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:28.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, gosh, like they they can't really protect

956
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:32.440
<v Speaker 2>themselves much, right, yeah, so, and they're so innocent and

957
00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:35.159
<v Speaker 2>they have no idea the bad stuff that can.

958
00:50:35.079 --> 00:50:38.280
<v Speaker 1>Happen, and then the truth is in humanity.

959
00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:42.119
<v Speaker 2>So it's like almost easier for these people to to

960
00:50:42.199 --> 00:50:43.840
<v Speaker 2>do the stuff I guess to.

961
00:50:43.880 --> 00:50:47.000
<v Speaker 1>Them, right yeah, well, I mean that's exactly what happened here.

962
00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:50.039
<v Speaker 1>Joscelyn didn't attack Marina. She attacked the kids to get

963
00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:50.679
<v Speaker 1>to Marina.

964
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:52.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

965
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:54.440
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that's fucked.

966
00:50:54.760 --> 00:50:57.480
<v Speaker 2>That is It's like that is like evil.

967
00:50:57.960 --> 00:50:59.199
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, so evil.

968
00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:01.199
<v Speaker 2>Well that's what that.

969
00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:02.239
<v Speaker 1>That's the one dude said, you know, as he was

970
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:05.639
<v Speaker 1>blocking the door. Michael, I believe it was as he

971
00:51:05.800 --> 00:51:08.840
<v Speaker 1>was holding that door waiting for police to arrive, he said,

972
00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:12.920
<v Speaker 1>whatever is behind that door is pure evil. Yeah, and

973
00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:14.280
<v Speaker 1>he's one hundred percent right.

974
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm.

975
00:51:16.159 --> 00:51:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Whether whether there really was these fucking shadow people or

976
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:22.800
<v Speaker 1>demons or whatever whispering in her ears, whether it was

977
00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:25.559
<v Speaker 1>those things that were pure evil or it's Joscelyn herself,

978
00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:28.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't care whatever it yeah, pure fucking evil.

979
00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:30.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah.

980
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:35.599
<v Speaker 1>So that's the story of the Krim Family murders. Hopefully

981
00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:37.519
<v Speaker 1>you guys are still listening and you got through.

982
00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:41.039
<v Speaker 2>That all right, Well, yeah, and we can only hope

983
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:45.320
<v Speaker 2>that the Krim family is doing okay. Some some like

984
00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:48.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I want to say peace, but like

985
00:51:48.519 --> 00:51:51.199
<v Speaker 2>even like a sliver of it, you know, for like

986
00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:53.320
<v Speaker 2>some of the remaining life.

987
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:57.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so well, thank you for being here, Thank you

988
00:51:57.639 --> 00:52:00.199
<v Speaker 1>for listening. Of course we have all those thingy is

989
00:52:00.199 --> 00:52:03.039
<v Speaker 1>in the description of the podcast links to other stuff Patreon,

990
00:52:03.119 --> 00:52:04.760
<v Speaker 1>for example, if you want to give us a review.

991
00:52:04.760 --> 00:52:08.960
<v Speaker 1>We really appreciate that we are an indie podcast, produced researched.

992
00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:12.119
<v Speaker 1>All of it is just us. There's no one else

993
00:52:12.159 --> 00:52:14.519
<v Speaker 1>on our team, no one else over seeing anything.

994
00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:18.039
<v Speaker 2>It's just us that makes it seem so sad and scary.

995
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, and I'm just saying like we're not some like

996
00:52:21.559 --> 00:52:22.639
<v Speaker 1>part of big corporation.

997
00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:25.599
<v Speaker 2>I know what. I'm just like Wheels all alone.

998
00:52:25.760 --> 00:52:28.880
<v Speaker 1>We don't have managers nothing, you know, it's just us.

999
00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:31.519
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, so yeah, we appreciate all the support you

1000
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:33.960
<v Speaker 1>can give us, give us reviews, whatever, even if you're

1001
00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:36.719
<v Speaker 1>just listening. We appreciate the shit out of that. Trust

1002
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:37.159
<v Speaker 1>me on that.

1003
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:37.840
<v Speaker 2>So sure do.

1004
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for being here. And Nicole's got the next episode?

1005
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:42.559
<v Speaker 1>Are you gonna get the hint or just that's it?

1006
00:52:42.639 --> 00:52:44.280
<v Speaker 1>We're doing it next soon.

1007
00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:48.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I guess I can. It's like a huge

1008
00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:49.840
<v Speaker 2>it's a Canadian story.

1009
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:52.199
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I know what it is, but yeah.

1010
00:52:52.039 --> 00:52:56.199
<v Speaker 2>It's a it's happened in Nova Scotia in twenty twenty.

1011
00:52:56.880 --> 00:53:00.880
<v Speaker 1>And it uh, don't give much away, I know.

1012
00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:07.079
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, and yeah, it's it's it's maddening. It's like

1013
00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:10.079
<v Speaker 2>so maddening. I'm I mean, I was going to give

1014
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:12.039
<v Speaker 2>out more, but then you just baus and me, So

1015
00:53:12.679 --> 00:53:14.840
<v Speaker 2>that's all you get. I mean, if you know the

1016
00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:17.039
<v Speaker 2>case that's gonna you're going to know which money?

1017
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think I know what you were going to say,

1018
00:53:18.920 --> 00:53:20.119
<v Speaker 1>and if you said that, I think it was going

1019
00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:23.199
<v Speaker 1>to give it all away. So that's why I kind

1020
00:53:23.239 --> 00:53:23.599
<v Speaker 1>of like.

1021
00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:29.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's definitely worth a listen, like it, Yeah, it

1022
00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:32.320
<v Speaker 2>needs it's a story that needs to be told, as

1023
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:33.039
<v Speaker 2>many of these do.

1024
00:53:33.400 --> 00:53:35.320
<v Speaker 1>I agree, and as you put it in very good words,

1025
00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:36.440
<v Speaker 1>it's it's a maddening case.

1026
00:53:36.679 --> 00:53:37.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1027
00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:41.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so uh until Friday, because every Friday now we upload.

1028
00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:45.039
<v Speaker 1>Until Friday, we will we'll talk to you, will see

1029
00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:47.559
<v Speaker 1>you or hear you, or you'll hear us. We'll be

1030
00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:49.039
<v Speaker 1>there Friday and until

1031
00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:51.199
<v Speaker 2>Then, stay wicked.