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Speaker 1: What's going on.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It

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is heard live every day from noon to three on

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WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content

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like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily

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Get every episode for free right to your smartphone or tablet.

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And again, thank you so much for your support. So

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I watched the Charlotte City Council meeting last night, so

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you didn't have to.

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Speaker 1: You're welcome. I'm a giver. And it went a while,

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It lasted a long time.

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Speaker 2: There were a lot of people that showed up a

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lot of people during the public hearing portion or the

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public forum I should say portion of the meeting. And

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I want to say there was probably like I think

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there were fifteen of them, and because there were so many,

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they got their time chopped by one minute. So instead

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of a three minute speech that a lot of them

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had prepared, they got chopped down to two minutes.

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Speaker 1: So that means like everybody.

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Speaker 2: Gets cut off and most of the people they are talking,

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we're talking about safety, you know, crime issues and safety

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issues specifically on the light rail line and on the

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buses in the transit system. Because there was a vote

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last night by the Charlotte City Council later on in

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the meeting to expand the jurisdiction of the private security

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company that is contracted with CATS the Charlotte Area Transit

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system that is already in place. This company is called

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PPS Professional Police Services. Now I do have some audio

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and you will hear it referred to as PSS, but

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that was a mistake which they later on corrected. It's PPS.

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So if you hear PSS, they're talking about the same entity.

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And the Charlotte City Council unanimously approved a mutual aid

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agreement that gives PPS authority to enforce laws beyond city

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owned transit property like buses, light rails, and stations. Under

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the agreement, according to the piece by Nick Sullivan at

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the Charlotte Observer, PPS officers jurisdiction will include the entire

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rail trail, sidewalks surrounding the transit centers, and other areas

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adjacent to transit property. Now, you may have heard on

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this very program we brought to you the story. I

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think it was a WBTV story or it may have

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been WSOC I forget, but they were doing a story

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on an attack on the rail trail and the guy

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was let out of jail. Within twenty four hours he

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was back out on the street. So you know, again,

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it doesn't appear to be an arresting problem. It appears

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to be a court problem. People being turned out through

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a turnstile process, not like turnstiles like we have at

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our light rail platforms, because we don't have any of

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them at our light rail platforms, but you know, like

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they have in other train systems around the world, turnstiles

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and don't We're going to get to the fair evasion

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issue because this came up last night too. Back to

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the Observer piece, officials say the change will make it

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easier for CAT security personnel to respond to safety concerns

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at bus and train stations. Charlotte began working with this

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company in twenty twenty three. The company's contract is set

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to expire next year next July, but it has optional

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one year extensions and we don't know what will happen

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if the sales tax is voted in and the new

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transit authority is created. There is an idea that the

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transit authority would then have its own police force, which

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may be what PPS is angling to do. I don't

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know this, but it may be. I mean, it's an option.

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I guess you could kind of maybe get yourself folded

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into the transit authority, maybe because it's like a ready

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made I don't know, but they do a lot of

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contracted security work contracts for the local government. PPS officers

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adhere to the same training standards as Charlotte Mecklenburg Police

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Department officers, and they are certified and sworn officers. According

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to Celestine Ratliffe, the deputy chief for PPS, security officers

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have the same powers as city police too. According to

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Brent Cagel, the interim CEO of cats Now, there was

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something he said last night when they were talking about

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fair enforcement, fair collection, you know too, to catch the

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the people who you know aren't paying and still writing

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the freeloaders.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: He said that the PPS personnel do have the power

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to do fair enforcement and they can even make arrests.

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He says, they are certified law enforcement officers. In fractions

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are written as civil citations. And this this got me thinking, like,

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what is a what is a civil citation, And so

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I went on too the the interweb and I asked.

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Speaker 1: An AI.

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Speaker 2: Program here on the Brave platform or browser, and it

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comes back as saying that North Carolina does not have

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a legal category known as civil siteations for traffic or

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similar offenses.

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Speaker 1: Which I knew that about traffic.

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Speaker 2: Like you ever get pulled over, like usually the officers

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or the state troopers, they'll tell you, they're like, like,

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this is technically an arrest. You're just free to go,

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but you have to you got to come to court.

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Speaker 1: So it's like a it's like an.

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Speaker 2: Accelerated like we're not going to bring you in front

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of a magistrate for the speeding ticket, but that's a

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criminal violation, criminal citation, it's not civil. So I'm not clear,

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you know, because if you don't pay your speeding tickets,

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they can come pick you up.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: All citations issued for violations of state law, including traffic

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infractions and misdemeanors, are considered criminal charges under North Carolina law.

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A citation is a formal directive issued by a law

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enforcement officer or authorized person requiring an individual to appear

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in court to answer a misdemeanor or infraction charge. So

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I don't know what Brent Cagele meant when he said

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that these are civil citations. I don't know what he meant,

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and nobody followed up to ask him. Which was one

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of the things that I noticed last night in watching

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the city council members who have been under immense pressure

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and scrutiny during this election cycle about crime and specifically

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safety on the transit system, and what I noticed was

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that there weren't a lot of follow up questions. People

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would ask a question, Brent Caagel would answer in, you know,

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and I don't mean this as an insult, just like

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I don't mean it as an insult when I talk

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about how like police officers speak, and cops speak, right,

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they have codes and acronyms, and you know, they use

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words like the you know, the defendant and stuff like that,

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where most people.

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Speaker 1: Are just like, that's the bad guy. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's just a different language, and I understand why they

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adopt it, just like there's corporate speak, right, sure, So

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Cagel just seemed to answer in this bureaucrat speak, this language,

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and it is really a gift, I think to be

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able to talk for two, three, four minutes and sound

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like you're answering a question without actually answering a question

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or really saying much at all.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's a gift, it really is. I can't

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do it.

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Speaker 2: I just usually will answer the question and then like

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there'll be dead air or something because I'm done answering

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your question. So I don't know what the civil citation means.

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Back to the Yeah, back to the Charlotte Observer story.

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PPS the firm is a support for CMPD, it's not

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a replacement, he said. To address safety concerns, Katz has

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also ramped up its fair enforcement efforts, which is a

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responsibility of PPS for now, and they've entered into an

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agreement with CMPD the police department, to deploy off duty

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officer for eight hundred hours per week to assist with

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transit patrol. Right, so they are they're beefing up the

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presence of law enforcement on the line, which is a

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good thing. The presence of law enforcement acts as a deterrent. Okay,

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we have known this for a long time. We forgot

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it during the summer of fiery but mostly peaceful rioting,

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and there was this push like, oh my gosh, if

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we see cops, we just have to riot, like no, no,

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that that's actually not the science.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: In fact, I did a little bit of research yesterday,

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as I am known to do, and I have come

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across various studies on the very matter. In fact, here's

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one from twenty twenty three evaluating fair evasion risk in

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bust transit networks, written by several researchers out of Italy.

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But it's referred to as Barabino and apparently he's like

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he's a cited he's an often cited researcher in this field.

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And there's I've got another study too, which basically say

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more fair evasion, more crime, more cops, less evasion. So

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when I was a kid, my grandpa died with Alzheimer's,

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and before he died, my mom and my dad took

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care of him as he got worse. Forty years ago,

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there were no treatments and not much support for caregivers

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and family. But things are different today because of the

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work of so many people, including the Alzheimer's Association of

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Western Carolina. It's a great organization with awesome people with

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huge hearts. I've been a supporter for twenty five years.

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This cause means a lot to me. I participate in

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the annual Walk to end Alzheimer's and I'm leading a

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Charlotte team again this year, and it's called once again

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Pete's Pack. You can sign up and you can join

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the team and walk with us. It's on October eighteenth,

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that truest field. Sign up at alz dot org slash

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Walk and then you could search for my team name

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Pete's Peck. There's also a link at thepetepod dot com.

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There's also a link in the description of this podcast. Also,

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I'll be seeing the Gastonia Walk on October eleventh, and

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so you can make a team and join that one too,

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or make a donation and help me hit my goal

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of five thousand dollars. If you do, I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: There are a.

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Speaker 2: Bunch of other walks all over the Carolinas. You can

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go to alz dot org slash walk for all the

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dates and locations. We're closer than ever to stopping Alzheimer's.

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Can you help us get there? Will you walk with me?

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For a different future, for families, for more time for treatments.

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This is why we walk, by the way. The jury

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has apparently reached a verdict in the trial of Ryan Ruth.

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That was the second attempted assassination of Donald Trump. He

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has been acting as his own attorney in that case.

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The jury has come back I think pretty quickly with

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a verdict. So probably not a good outcome for him.

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I hear he had a moron for a client anyway,

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So we will, Yeah, we'll bring that to you when

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it happens.

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Speaker 1: We'll let you know what happens there. This is down

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in Florida.

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Speaker 2: So last night the Charlotte City Council has its meeting

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and it expands its contract allowing the private security company

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PPS to now patrol more areas. They're adding more police

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as support personnel, basically for improved security, increasing security on

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the light rail line, the rail trail around the transit

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center and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Now, one of the things, I've got some.

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Speaker 2: Audio to play here, all right, And like what I'm

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deciding here is like do I play this audio because

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it's two minutes. I don't want to have to chop

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it up and then bring the verdict in here. But

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all right, we'll give it a shot. Here's Edwin Peacock

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City Councilmen, Republican. He asked about the crime stats that

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he has requested from CATS, And he asked for this

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a month ago, and he wanted to look back in

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the transit related or transit system crime stats looking back

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three years.

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Speaker 3: Where is the criminal activity occurring across all of our system?

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You told us last time we have forty eight trains,

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we have four transit centers, we have a lot even

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more bus stations. But are you able to appin just

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broadly speaking, where is the majority of the criminal activity

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occurring on CATS right now?

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Speaker 4: Criminal activity, just like in our community, occurs all over.

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It occurs throughout the system. Certainly there are areas that

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PSS and our security team in collaboration with CMPD that

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become hotspots at certain times.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, that's what.

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Speaker 2: He's asking, where is the majority of the crime happening?

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And cagel answers, well, it's all over the system, but

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obviously there are some hot spots. Right Where what are

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those hot spots?

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Speaker 4: That's what he was asking, and they they respond accordingly.

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But these these incidents occur throughout the system, just like

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they do throughout that community.

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Speaker 1: That's a repeat of what he just said.

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Speaker 4: Our security has the ability to respond and deal with

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those incidents when they come up, irrelevant and somebody say,

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we are working on that data for you. We're going

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back to twenty twenty two, so a little bit longer

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than the thirty six months, and we are pulling that

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data for you as well as the rest of the councilor.

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Speaker 3: There so will counsel have the ability to help PSS

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to staff at all?

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Speaker 2: Right, so this is what I mean. Peacock asked the question.

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Cagel doesn't give him answer. He just says we are,

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we still working on it, and then Peacock just moves on.

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He he doesn't he doesn't challenge this, He just allows

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it to stand. Like you just said there were hot spots,

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name me some such as it's the best follow up

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questions to ask, such as.

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Speaker 1: How so.

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Speaker 2: Give me some more information. I've asked you for this

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weeks ago. You're working on it. That's fantastic. You know

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there are hot spots, So give me a couple of

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hot spots, like like, like which ones the transit center?

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Might that be a hot spot? I would suspect it

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would be, just because everybody's coming into that main hub, right,

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What of the train cars? Do you have a lot

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of crime? Are these hot spots at the train stations?

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Which train station see the most calls for service? Stuff

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like that, give me some data something, But he's got nothing,

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So peacock moved on adequately.

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Speaker 3: If we notice that you have much more crime than

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and maybe we originally anticipated, I mean, where does the

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staffing model come from? Is what I want to know.

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I want to know how you all are determining where

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individuals are going to be placed along all of our

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light rail and along our bus system.

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Speaker 2: Yes see, this is why peacocky is completely correct to

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ask for this information, because that's how you determine staffing.

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Where do you surge your police officers in the general

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community where there is a high rate of crime. Well,

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if you don't know where your crime is happening on

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your bus system and train system, how are you surging

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personnel to those areas? How are you building a staffing model?

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And the fact that Cagel doesn't know these answers right now,

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that is the indictment. That's the smoking gun, right because

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you should already know this information because you're all already staffing. Ostensibly,

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you're already staffing for security in the areas that need

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it the most. What are those areas? We're still compiling

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that information, So how have you been doing your staffing?

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And Peacock frames this as a look forward. It shouldn't

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be a look forward, it should be a right now,

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how do you have people staffed right now at a

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particular location? How did you come up with that number? PPS?

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Speaker 1: Was there? Ask them? Hey, Pps, ms Ratliff, why do

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you have, like many? How many of.

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Speaker 2: Your staff do you have at the transit center? You

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got three? Okay? Why three? How'd you come up with

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that number?

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Speaker 1: Seriously?

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Speaker 2: Like, but there isn't any follow up here. There isn't

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any connecting of the dots all right back to the

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clip here.

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Speaker 4: PSS works through that. They are the professionals. That's why

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we hire them and their background, and so they're making

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those decisions on deployment and how to deploy throughout the

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system to protect the customers, the employees, the assets across

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the entire system.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so this is strictly out of Katz's hands. So

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they've taken no role in this. They've turned the entire

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thing over to PPS. Well, why is Kagel answering this question?

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Speaker 5: Then?

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Speaker 2: Why is in PPS answering that question? She was never

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brought to the mic to answer that question. She was

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standing right next to Cagle, and she never answered the question.

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How are you staffing this? What is your model?

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Sunday Ticket Slash terms Limited time offer. This is from

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an anonymous person. I'm not convinced that PPS has the

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resources required.

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Speaker 1: Who vetted them?

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Speaker 2: I can't believe they have staff to analyze proper proper

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staffing needs. Yeah, this is the problem that when you

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ask them, where are the crime hot spots happening, and

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cats can't answer because they've offloaded all of those operations

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to this private firm, and the private firm representative is

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standing right there and doesn't offer any explanation or insight

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into that data, but then says that they have enough

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staff to cover the whole transit system and protect everything

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and everybody and all the things at all the time

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and whatever. Yeah, but that doesn't help me understand how

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you are allocating your personnel because you would allocate personnel

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based on the higher crime areas, right, you would target that,

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and if you don't know where those areas are, then

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you cannot target those areas. So we didn't get an

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answer to that last night. Brian, Welcome to the show.

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Hey Brian, Hey bet Hey man, what's up.

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Speaker 3: Hey.

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Speaker 5: I just wanted to let everybody know what I observe.

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I'm an uber driver and i work the South End,

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the lower South End, Dilworth Uptown area at nights, and

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there's one area that I've noticed that's very, very troublesome,

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and that's on South Boulevard, in the Loso area. Get

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I think it's called Loso, Yeah, the lower South End. Yeah,

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So if you're going if you're going. If you're on

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South Boulevard and you're going south and you're heading towards Pineville.

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As soon as if you cross the stoplight of Clanton Road,

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there's a section on the right there's an apartment complex

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or whatever that is. It's a housing complex, and you

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could see people congregating there. Okay, then in my observation,

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they look very scary, and I've seen them hassle pedestrians.

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I've seen them try to intimidate people who are walking

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or jogging down the sidewalk. There go of cats in

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this PPS or PSS, whatever that firm is called. If

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they want to know a hotspot, I'd point them in

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that direction. Start there.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean theoretically they are already aware of it.

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What right, theoretically, Yeah, that's what they want us to believe.

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That's what they know the system. I'm not convinced at

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all at all.

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Speaker 5: After hearing that gentleman's does simon it to Ed Peacock, Yeah,

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I don't even know what he does at the company.

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He saw an absolutely clueless He was non responses to

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the question.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and because he doesn't have the information, I mean,

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that's not right. And he said that he said, you know,

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we're still compiling the data right because they don't have

387
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it and they have him in tracking it, which tells

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you also another piece of information that's kind of a

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00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,880
head scratcher is that that CATS does not know what

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the crime footprint looks like in its system.

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Speaker 5: It's unbelievable. I mean you're like going, really, yeah, what

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00:23:36,319 --> 00:23:37,759
do you actually do there?

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Speaker 2: CMPD has been crime mapping for twenty something years. You

394
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,279
can go on to the website, you can type in

395
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an address. You can find all of the police reports

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for all of the crimes in any given area, broken

397
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down by dates and types of offences, all of this stuff.

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They've been running the crime mapping service for twenty years.

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Speaker 5: The CATS doesn't know it could be in probably easy

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to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's bizarre.

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Speaker 5: Let me make one more common. I urge all uber

403
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and lyft drivers who work in these areas in the

404
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,319
Uptown South and Lower South End area to make observations

405
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,839
in the carl WBT when you see something that this

406
00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:22,279
obviously needs to be reported to the place of somebody

407
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in authority and say hey, this is what I'm seeing

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in the community, and we can be the eyes and

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ears for some of Arlotte. That's my proposal anyways.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, look, identifying the areas if nothing else,

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it alerts your fellow citizens about, you know, potentially problematic areas.

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But also you know, if there are city officials that

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hear this, maybe puts it on their radar. We'll see

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what comes out, right, we'll see it. I'll be you know,

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when we get the data when it comes, when they're

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finished compiling it. If they've got some hot spot areas

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they identify in that Loso area, Clanton is not identified,

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I'm going to have some questions about that then too.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, Brian appreciated, buddy. Thanks, stay safe.

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Speaker 5: Thanks.

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Speaker 2: Renee Johnson City council member Renee Johnson, Democrat. She said

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she doesn't understand why it's taking so long to get

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this data, given the international attention and the scrutiny that

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the city is under. She's right, yeah, she's right. She

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said there's a culture of a lack of transparency and

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that the council is publicly accountable.

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Speaker 5: She is.

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Speaker 2: She just came through another primary battle. She has been

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at odds with the mayor and the mayor's little clique

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on council, her little voting block that the mayor has

431
00:25:40,319 --> 00:25:44,519
put together, and Renee Johnson has been on the other

432
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side of that voting block a lot over the years,

433
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and she was like, look, we just got beat up

434
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,079
on the campaign trail over this issue because you guys

435
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,200
don't have the data and you haven't provided it to us.

436
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,839
She then said, is why are the police the CMPD

437
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not the police force for transit?

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Speaker 1: It's just a question.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, sorry, this is back to Edwin Peacock asking the

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question why isn't CMPD the police force.

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Speaker 1: It's just a question that I get from citizens.

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Speaker 3: They asked me why is CMPD not the primary law

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enforcement agency? Why are they not the only Why are

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they not the first responders for.

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Speaker 1: All of this?

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Speaker 4: We have for many years had a corporate security model.

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This is not new in the last three years or

448
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the last ten years, I don't believe.

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Speaker 1: And so this is the model that we have utilized.

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00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,759
Speaker 4: But again we are working with PSS as part of

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this action and other things so that they can work

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really to be a transit police ento te right although

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they are contracted. This has been the model that has

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been deployed at CATS for many years.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So the answer is because that's the way it's

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00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,160
always been done.

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00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:08,079
Speaker 1: That's the answer.

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Speaker 2: Right, Why isn't CMPD the police force, Well, it hasn't

459
00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:15,400
been before. That's the way it's always been done. That's

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the answer. I find that to be inadequate. All Right,

461
00:27:19,759 --> 00:27:21,960
You hear me talk a lot about incentives, right, Well,

462
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let's talk about incentive trips, the kind that companies offer

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highlights into a professional storytelling video. So think about it.

476
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,680
When you launch next year's incentive trip campaign, that video

477
00:28:10,759 --> 00:28:14,400
becomes your greatest motivator. Talk about a return on investment. Right,

478
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,240
you got to check out incentive trip kit for your

479
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,480
business visit Incentive tripkit dot com because great trips deserve

480
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,920
even better returns. Here is Harry, Welcome to the program.

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00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 6: Hello Harry, Oh great good program. Thanks sir, though we'll

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00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,480
support the walk also.

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00:28:32,319 --> 00:28:33,599
Speaker 1: Well, thank you. I do appreciate it.

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00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, just sames to me that the Charlotte. Charlotte is

485
00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:40,519
run by a city manager, right, the same as the

486
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,920
city council really doesn't do anything except hold a little

487
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,839
heat and talk about things and give housing permeits. But

488
00:28:49,079 --> 00:28:51,240
I don't think comment on that. But it seems like

489
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:53,759
we're false at the wrong people are asking the wrong

490
00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:54,920
people the questions here.

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00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,039
Speaker 1: So you are correct.

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00:28:56,039 --> 00:28:59,839
Speaker 2: In North Carolina, we have a council manager form of government.

493
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:04,599
Managers are very powerful. The idea was to take the

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00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,000
power away from elected officials and give it to you,

495
00:29:09,279 --> 00:29:13,640
this bureaucratic professional expert class and it would be you know,

496
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,279
professionally run and all of that. So Marcus Jones is

497
00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:20,000
our city manager, and yeah he is. He's in charge,

498
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,519
but the city council hires and fires him. So they

499
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:28,799
need to be applying the pressure to Marcus Jones, who

500
00:29:28,799 --> 00:29:31,880
then would apply the pressure to the people and the

501
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,920
agencies that they run under his direction. He did, and

502
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,599
now he was there last night, he was at the

503
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,720
city council meeting. He sits right next to the mayor.

504
00:29:39,799 --> 00:29:41,599
That was a change I noticed when I came back

505
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,480
to town. The manager used to sit off to the

506
00:29:44,599 --> 00:29:47,880
side at the very end of the diis now he's

507
00:29:48,279 --> 00:29:51,160
front and center with the mayor, right next to the mayor.

508
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,240
I don't know when that change happened, but he did say, like,

509
00:29:55,519 --> 00:29:59,720
for example, the current model, the policing model, it doesn't

510
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,319
they like it because it does not reallocate officers away

511
00:30:03,359 --> 00:30:04,400
from other areas.

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Speaker 1: And then of course he.

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00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: Made the pitch that hey, you know, if the sales

514
00:30:08,039 --> 00:30:11,799
tax referendum passes, then the new authority could have the

515
00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:14,319
money for its own police force. So there'd be a

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00:30:14,319 --> 00:30:16,759
new transit authority police force.

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00:30:17,759 --> 00:30:21,759
Speaker 6: So more bureaucracy sounds yeah.

518
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and it would be another agency that would

519
00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:25,960
report to him, making him a little bit more powerful

520
00:30:26,079 --> 00:30:28,920
or the next city manager. Yeah, that's a good point, Harry,

521
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,799
I do appreciate it. The council can the council can

522
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,720
pressure and direct its city manager. The problem is in

523
00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:41,519
this form of government, in this model is that the

524
00:30:41,559 --> 00:30:46,319
council members become very reliant on staff because staff can

525
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,000
make your priorities go away, make them harder to achieve.

526
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,680
So you want a good relationship with the city staff.

527
00:30:55,519 --> 00:30:59,640
And if they don't like the way you're treating their

528
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,119
boss and friend, Marcus Jones, then they may not be

529
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:05,160
willing to help you out so much. And some council

530
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,799
members I think are probably running up against this very dynamic. Look,

531
00:31:09,079 --> 00:31:12,680
I don't know if it's better to have CMPD doing

532
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,960
this security or PPS this corporate model. I don't know

533
00:31:17,559 --> 00:31:21,880
what is better, but there's been no comparison provided to

534
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:27,480
us to show the costs to police with CMPD versus PPS,

535
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,319
so we don't know, and that's the problem. All right,

536
00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:34,680
that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much

537
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,759
for listening. I could not do the show without your

538
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:39,559
support and the support of the businesses that advertise on

539
00:31:39,599 --> 00:31:42,400
the podcast, so if you'd like, please support them too

540
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,119
and tell them you heard it here. You can also

541
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,720
become a patron at my Patreon page or go to

542
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,599
thepetecleanershow dot com. Again, thank you so much for listening,

543
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:56,559
and don't break anything while I'm gone.