Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Constance Radio.
Speaker 2: Fought to welcome back a friend of the program he's
Speaker 2: been with us before, Dave Cash. Dave Cash, welcome back
Speaker 2: to Night Side. How were you, sir.
Speaker 3: I'm doing great. It's great to be on the show again, Dan,
Speaker 3: thanks so much.
Speaker 2: Most recently, Dave Cash was the regional administrator for what
Speaker 2: is called Region one for the United States Environmental Protection
Speaker 2: Agency that covers six news New England states and also
Speaker 2: ten federally recognized tribes here in New England. And Dave
Speaker 2: has a deep knowledge and understanding. He was at one
Speaker 2: point a high school teacher, but subsequently he worked in
Speaker 2: the Romney administration here in Massachusetts as a director of Air,
Speaker 2: Energy and Waste Policy, and then went on to work
Speaker 2: in the Biden administration as a said, say, the top
Speaker 2: EPA administrator here in New England, Dave, we have just
Speaker 2: had a very cold winter in New England. At least
Speaker 2: that's the way it seems to me. YEA, do you
Speaker 2: concur that this has been a colder than normal winter.
Speaker 2: Everyone's paying more money for their energy. I'm sure you
Speaker 2: know that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think this has kind of been
Speaker 3: like a normal winter for New England fifteen or twenty
Speaker 3: years ago, and maybe we all kind of sell The
Speaker 3: last couple of winters have been kind of dry and
Speaker 3: kind of warm, and so getting socked with a regular
Speaker 3: New England winter. But yeah, I mean, I mean, man,
Speaker 3: you must feel it. I know I feel it. Higher
Speaker 3: gas bills and electric bills this month, and I mean
Speaker 3: you know why they're high. They're high because we depend
Speaker 3: so much on natural gas here all New England's energy
Speaker 3: electricity prices, they're high due to our heavy reliance on
Speaker 3: natural gas. It's like over fifty percent of our electricity
Speaker 3: country natural gas. That means like we're linked to the
Speaker 3: vagaries of the market and we're here in New England
Speaker 3: at the end of the pipeline literally and figuratively, so
Speaker 3: when gas prices go up and down, oof, we feel it.
Speaker 3: And so that's every one of the many, many reasons
Speaker 3: why we should be moving to other sources, whether that's nuclear,
Speaker 3: which we're still at about twenty five percent there, but hydro, offshore, wind, solar,
Speaker 3: those are all things that ultimately are going to bring
Speaker 3: down the price of electricity for consumers, because obviously you
Speaker 3: don't pay fuel costs for solar and wind. Those are yeah,
Speaker 3: those are break You've.
Speaker 2: Got to cover me a little skeptical at the moment
Speaker 2: on that. O. Sure, but that's what we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about. You've you've certainly focused here. On the one hand,
Speaker 2: we've all felt the sting of higher prices this winter.
Speaker 2: Now it has been a little colder, but you're right,
Speaker 2: it's not abnormally cold. It's not like all of a
Speaker 2: sudden we're in some sort of you know, depth of
Speaker 2: winter beginning in November. First, November was fairly mild. December
Speaker 2: got a little colder kind of hit us in January.
Speaker 2: February was cold month. It's funny every Sunday I look
Speaker 2: in the globe and they talk about how cold it
Speaker 2: has been, uh in you know, whether it's above average
Speaker 2: or a below average? Do you know that the globe
Speaker 2: is trying to convince me and I have no idea
Speaker 2: where they have the where they take these temperatures, that
Speaker 2: it's been warmer than normal, like by a degree and
Speaker 2: a half. I just don't buy that. But that's we'll
Speaker 2: put that. We'll put that aside.
Speaker 3: So you know, that's what if that's what the science
Speaker 3: is saying. I mean, I wouldn't. I wouldn't doubt it
Speaker 3: depends on that.
Speaker 2: Well, it's the question is I don't know where the
Speaker 2: science is. If the science guy is standing in his
Speaker 2: living room and taking the temperature, if he's standing outside,
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Now, come on, you know they got they got
Speaker 3: monitors all over the state where they're you know they're
Speaker 3: they're they're getting all the numbers.
Speaker 2: They do that. The last couple of winters, I would
Speaker 2: agree with you it was a little warm and normal,
Speaker 2: but I just think this winter was colder than normal.
Speaker 2: So so what we're trying to do here is we're
Speaker 2: trying to balance the cost of living in New England, okay,
Speaker 2: with the energy options that we have. And I want
Speaker 2: to go through some of those with you and know
Speaker 2: that you're a huge supporter of solar and you're a
Speaker 2: huge supporter of wind. So let me let me ask
Speaker 2: you about those in in a in a bit of
Speaker 2: a challenging way. Okay, solar in New England, me in Arizona.
Speaker 2: No t how efficient it can solar ever be for
Speaker 2: New England.
Speaker 3: So the real question it's not it's not about efficiency, right.
Speaker 3: We know we're not as efficient as Arizona, there's no
Speaker 3: question about okay, right, The question is is it worth
Speaker 3: the cost? Right, that's the question because Arizona also has
Speaker 3: has relatively low electricity prices in general, and so we're
Speaker 3: here in this market, like I said, at the end
Speaker 3: of the natural gas pipeline, so we pay high costs.
Speaker 3: So if solar is not as great here as it
Speaker 3: is in Arizona, well that's okay. If it's still better
Speaker 3: than the alternative. And what we've seen in the last
Speaker 3: ten fifteen years is the price of solar coming down, down, down, down,
Speaker 3: and it's coming down because it's expanding everywhere because the
Speaker 3: government is supporting it with subsidies and pact incentives. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: But then then that means more manufacturers are going to
Speaker 3: build it, and then they're going to compete, and the
Speaker 3: price is going to come down. We see, we've seen that.
Speaker 3: We've seen that, you know, with batteries with solar, with wind,
Speaker 3: with onshore wind, with offshore wind, we'll get, we'll get
Speaker 3: with all those.
Speaker 2: I just want to take them one at their time.
Speaker 2: So let's come back yea, yeah for a second, okay,
Speaker 2: So solar is never going to be a panacea for
Speaker 2: New England. It might help a little bit, but obviously
Speaker 2: it's not a panacea. Now you talked about we're at
Speaker 2: the end of the pipeline, Dave, We're not really at
Speaker 2: the end of the pipeline. But we have politicians in
Speaker 2: New England who fight against adding pipelines. If you talk
Speaker 2: to the heads of ever source in National Grid, as
Speaker 2: I have, they've always said we need more pipelines in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2: But what will happen is in the middle of July,
Speaker 2: when no one's thinking about their electric bills, there'll be
Speaker 2: some demonstration. Not in my backyard. I don't want to prison,
Speaker 2: I don't want a waste treatment plant, and I certainly
Speaker 2: don't want a pipeline. And you go through my neighborhood.
Speaker 2: So we solve how do we deal with that problem?
Speaker 2: Or is that an impossible problem to deal with?
Speaker 3: No, it's not an impossible I mean there are a
Speaker 3: bunch of parts of that problem. One problem is I
Speaker 3: think a fair question is should we be investing in
Speaker 3: fossil fuel infrastructure like pipelines when we know we know
Speaker 3: we've got to move to a clean energy future for many, many,
Speaker 3: many reasons, public public health, in terms of local air pollution,
Speaker 3: climate change, the benefits for clean energy economy where the
Speaker 3: United States can be a major global competitor, it lowers
Speaker 3: costs as I described earlier. So the question is what
Speaker 3: are the things we should be investing in, And I
Speaker 3: would argue fossil fuel pipelines is not the answer. The
Speaker 3: answer is more transmission.
Speaker 2: Is not natural gas one of the cleanest forms of
Speaker 2: energy right now?
Speaker 3: It is definitely one of the cleanest forms of fossil energy.
Speaker 2: And we have it in well, yeah, let's just take
Speaker 2: the word fossil for a seconds. That's a dirty word.
Speaker 2: But there isn't there an abundance of natural gas in America?
Speaker 2: Why not play to our strength in the short term
Speaker 2: and bring a couple of more pipelines in and bring
Speaker 2: and realize that maybe at some point thirty forty years
Speaker 2: from now, we're all going to be sold. It's going
Speaker 2: to be hydro and nuclear. Whatever. Do we really have
Speaker 2: to look at at this point as natural gas as
Speaker 2: an enemy?
Speaker 3: It's not an enemy in a peer right now, and
Speaker 3: so we should use it now, but we should get
Speaker 3: the heck off it as soon as we can. Fossil
Speaker 3: fuels have played a really important role in our country,
Speaker 3: no question. Because of fossil fuels, we were able to
Speaker 3: grow and industrialize and all of the kinds of things
Speaker 3: that we've come to love about this country. Right, But
Speaker 3: the time for fossil fuels is over. We've found it
Speaker 3: causes major problems in the environment. It causes health problems, cancer,
Speaker 3: heart disease, asthma attacks, all of those kinds of things.
Speaker 3: And we have the technology, the cheaper and cheaper technology
Speaker 3: to move to the clean energy future. So I would say,
Speaker 3: thank you, thank you natural gas. Your time is done.
Speaker 3: What let's get these offshore wind farms going. Well, yeah,
Speaker 3: look everywhere.
Speaker 2: I gotta take a break. I got to take a break.
Speaker 2: And you ever convinced me yet, we're going to go back.
Speaker 2: My guest is Dave cash Uh. He is someone who
Speaker 2: has spent his life looking at energy issues. Many of
Speaker 2: you have been looking at your bills. Uh. And obviously
Speaker 2: there's a little bit of a difference approach between Dave
Speaker 2: and myself, and I will acknowledge that this is his
Speaker 2: area of expertise, but I have strong feelings on it
Speaker 2: and we can all have a great conversation for the
Speaker 2: next rob or so six six six month, seven two five, four,
Speaker 2: ten thirty six, Month seven nine, three, one, ten thirty.
Speaker 2: Will be right back on night Side, more conversation with
Speaker 2: Dave Cash, and we will get to phone calls. I'll
Speaker 2: tell you right now, light those lines up if you
Speaker 2: really want to get in. If you are a big
Speaker 2: proponent of solar or wind or hydro, you want to
Speaker 2: call and tell Dave he's absolutely right, not that he
Speaker 2: needs any convincing. If you're somebody who's a little skeptical
Speaker 2: of these and wants to hold on too at least
Speaker 2: natural gas and is probably more comfortable with nuclear, I'm
Speaker 2: your guy. We're not making a debate. It's a conversation.
Speaker 2: It's North America's back porch, or maybe even tonight North
Speaker 2: America's front port gets the kind of windy in the back.
Speaker 2: We'll be back right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Speaker 1: night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: We're talking about energy energy cost here in New England.
Speaker 2: We know they were expensive this winter and they'll be
Speaker 2: expensive this summer. If you're dealing with air conditioning with us.
Speaker 2: As Dave Cash, he's a former most recent Regional Administrator
Speaker 2: of the United States Environmental Protection Agency, the Region one office,
Speaker 2: which is the six New England states and the ten
Speaker 2: recognized tribes here in New England. So we talked a
Speaker 2: little bit about solar, and we come back to solar,
Speaker 2: but let's talk about offshore wind. Okay, Now, when I
Speaker 2: think about wind, it's always offshore. I've been in other
Speaker 2: parts of the country where the the turbines are in,
Speaker 2: you know, in the in the like Kansas, there is
Speaker 2: no offshore. It's always lad locked. But we got a
Speaker 2: problem offshore because, as I understand it, you got whales
Speaker 2: that are being impacted by this. They're throwing blades into
Speaker 2: the water. Is there anywhere in America where offshore wind
Speaker 2: has is effective.
Speaker 3: Well, the most effective at this point is off.
Speaker 4: The coast of New England. The wind is incredibly strong
Speaker 4: and constant, and the National Marine Fisheries Service and other
Speaker 4: agencies have studied the whale problem and it isn't really
Speaker 4: a problem, especially when they've changed some of the sighting
Speaker 4: of some of the turbines to not get in the
Speaker 4: way of migration routes and things like that. And sure
Speaker 4: you're going to have problems like the blade flying off.
Speaker 4: But Boyd compared to say the BP oil spill and
Speaker 4: any other time you have fossil fuel spills, this is
Speaker 4: nothing and this is a huge resource for this region.
Speaker 2: This let me ask you, how did the how did
Speaker 2: the how did the I'm being serious with you now.
Speaker 2: I understanding that in the last year or so, they've
Speaker 2: had a tremendous number of whales wash up ashore off
Speaker 2: the New Jersey Coast. And I don't know that they've
Speaker 2: been able to figure what what what caused that? But
Speaker 2: what are the environmentalists saying about the protection of the whales.
Speaker 2: I know that off the cape we deal with sharks
Speaker 2: and there's shock, kivity and all of that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: But I assume you've heard the story about the the
Speaker 2: uptick in in whale carcasses off the New Jersey coast.
Speaker 2: We're not talking about the former governor Chris Christy. By
Speaker 2: the way, Let let me make that very clear right now.
Speaker 3: Okay, you know, I I don't I know, I've studied.
Speaker 3: I've read some of those studies. They're not related to win.
Speaker 3: You see upticks in whale death.
Speaker 2: We don't know why suicide.
Speaker 3: I mean, when you when you've got these big projects
Speaker 3: that are office those it takes years to do the analysis,
Speaker 3: the environmental analysis, and the planning to make sure they're
Speaker 3: not a problem. And you know, for for for President
Speaker 3: Trump to kind of put the brakes on this whole
Speaker 3: sector which is just booming. I mean, we're talking in
Speaker 3: New England jobs, jobs, jobs, the the kind of renaissance
Speaker 3: of New Bedford and Salem and Bridgeport and New London
Speaker 3: with new offshore windos. How many how many jobs it's
Speaker 3: going to be tens of thousands, It's going to be
Speaker 3: thousands where we now multiple thousands. I don't know the
Speaker 3: total number, multiple thousands. I mean, I don't know if
Speaker 3: you've ever have you ever like driven by most recently,
Speaker 3: I think it was New London and and New Bedford
Speaker 3: to just have these massive monopiles ready to go out
Speaker 3: in the ocean, and you know that there's like there's
Speaker 3: supply chain manufacturing going to be on shore, et cetera.
Speaker 3: And I just I gotta say I scratched my head
Speaker 3: on this one where you know, the President claims there
Speaker 3: is an energy emergency and yet he's putting the brakes
Speaker 3: on one of the most important and in the pipeline.
Speaker 3: I mean, we're talking like we've got you know, gigawats
Speaker 3: and gigawats and gigawats ready to go. And you know
Speaker 3: it's clean.
Speaker 2: We're going to we're going to lose some of the
Speaker 2: mathem the non mathematicians. Let me give it to you
Speaker 2: more directly. Let's assume that we were able to put
Speaker 2: in a substantial number of offshore wind farms. Okay, and
Speaker 2: let us assume that we think for a moment, forget
Speaker 2: about the whales they got. You know, whatever the cost is,
Speaker 2: it's it's a cost that that we have to deal with.
Speaker 2: How much would significant offshore windmills bring down the average
Speaker 2: winter electric bill in New England? I'm just put it
Speaker 2: in dollars and cents.
Speaker 3: Oh Dan, you're you're asking me to answer a question.
Speaker 3: I have no idea what the answer to.
Speaker 2: But the reason I say, I mean, I don't. The
Speaker 2: reason I asked the question is this. It's one thing
Speaker 2: to say, hey, let's do this, but I think in
Speaker 2: order to convince the public that it's a good idea
Speaker 2: and put it, put aside the whale people who are
Speaker 2: who are never going to be with you. But principle,
Speaker 2: somehow someone's got to quantify it.
Speaker 3: But that's okay, And yeah, I don't well, I don't
Speaker 3: know what the exact answer is. I do know that
Speaker 3: the all the studies have shown that in the long
Speaker 3: term that once we have full build out of offshore wind,
Speaker 3: our prices will be lower than they are now and
Speaker 3: they'll be less volatile. And the volatility is what kills
Speaker 3: a business. Right, if you're business that depends or any
Speaker 3: or school building owner, you know you can't that or
Speaker 3: a homeowner. Right, My electric builds are much higher this
Speaker 3: year than last year. How do I budget for my family? Well,
Speaker 3: offshore wind it's more constant, not depending on oil, I
Speaker 3: mean on gas coming from elsewhere. Those are the things
Speaker 3: that are going to help you.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk Let's talk about We talked about solo,
Speaker 2: we talked about wind. Let's talk about hydro. I remember
Speaker 2: flying on a plane with Governor Hugh Gallon of New Hampshire.
Speaker 2: You might not even remember him. He was the governor
Speaker 2: of New Hampshire in the late seventies, really smart guy,
Speaker 2: and he was talking to me and we were sitting
Speaker 2: on the plane and he was talking about hydro Quebec
Speaker 2: and how Quebec was the answer. This is in the
Speaker 2: late seventies, so it's at least forty years ago. How
Speaker 2: much is hydro Quebec or hydro at any anywhere contributing
Speaker 2: to our power supply here in New England? Where is
Speaker 2: it's high?
Speaker 3: I think it's in the twenty plus percent in New England.
Speaker 2: That's because that's.
Speaker 3: At Yeah, well, we don't have that much hydro here
Speaker 3: within the region, and we get about I'm sorry, wait, no,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm over speaking. It's more than that. It's
Speaker 3: in the tent. It's in the ten to fifteen range.
Speaker 3: But the but when I was when I was in
Speaker 3: state government in the Romney administration and then in the
Speaker 3: Patrick administration I followed. In the Patrick administration, we were
Speaker 3: really trying to figure out how to get electricity from
Speaker 3: hydro Quebec because they had surplus in a pretty major
Speaker 3: way and they were looking for a market and we
Speaker 3: were looking for supply. It seems like a perfect match.
Speaker 3: And we mentioned the problem of sighting and things like that.
Speaker 2: Nimby, I'm curious.
Speaker 3: It didn't work. And it didn't work because we couldn't
Speaker 3: cite that there's been only one of what we thought
Speaker 3: we needed three major transmission lines and only one got
Speaker 3: permitted because they were blocked in New Hampshire, there were
Speaker 3: problems in Maine. It just was a very frustrating I mean,
Speaker 3: this is part of your question about the difficulty, David.
Speaker 2: I don't mean to be interrupted with you. You've known
Speaker 2: so much more about this. So who blocked them in
Speaker 2: New Hampshire? And who blocked the transmission lines? And with
Speaker 2: these overground transmission lines or underground?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were overground. They were overground, Okay, I think
Speaker 3: there were there were, there were local there a couple
Speaker 3: of dynamics. There are a bunch of local environmental groups
Speaker 3: that weren't happy with the overground transmission lines. And there
Speaker 3: were also I mean, I'll pull it put it on
Speaker 3: some of the transmission developers. I'm not going to mention names,
Speaker 3: but they didn't come in and get participation early and
Speaker 3: often enough in a way that the benefits of this
Speaker 3: project could be shared by those who were going to
Speaker 3: see the wires, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Bec was going to make money. So Quebec
Speaker 2: was going to make money, but they weren't going to
Speaker 2: be able to tap back tap.
Speaker 3: Into the energy, yeah, or the or the utility that
Speaker 3: was building the American utility. Yeah, I got you share
Speaker 3: the benefits, share the profits with the communities along the way,
Speaker 3: have them have a seat at the table.
Speaker 2: So that's got to be twenty years ago or fifteen years.
Speaker 3: Ago, yeah, fifteen years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I
Speaker 3: know that there. I know we're all still working on
Speaker 3: trying to do that.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, So we got to take a break.
Speaker 2: Nine thirty News. I got callers. I want the callers
Speaker 2: to join the conversation six one, seven, two, five, four
Speaker 2: ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.
Speaker 2: I will ask the callers to ask questions, no speeches,
Speaker 2: just you know, ask questions. Just do what I've tried
Speaker 2: to do. Clearly, you you you know that I see
Speaker 2: this just a little differently than Dave does. But he's
Speaker 2: somebody who knows a lot about it, and I'm asking
Speaker 2: questions that frankly, I don't know the answers to. We'll
Speaker 2: be back with Dave Cash, most recently the EPA administrator
Speaker 2: here in New England for the Biden administration. He worked
Speaker 2: for the Biden administration as the top EPA official here
Speaker 2: in New England right up until on January twentieth at
Speaker 2: high noon, when on January twentieth of this year, twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five until the inauguration of President Trump. And at
Speaker 2: that point everyone in the Biden administration had to have
Speaker 2: submitted ice room letters of resignation or they whatever. That's
Speaker 2: how it goes when there is a transition of power.
Speaker 2: There was a complete transition of power. Join the conversation
Speaker 2: back on Nightside right after.
Speaker 1: This, if you're on night Side with Dan Ray on
Speaker 1: w BAZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: I have a lot of questions to ask my friend
Speaker 2: Dave Cash and again, he understands this a lot better
Speaker 2: than I do. I think I have some knowledge of it,
Speaker 2: but he's the expert. And so let's go to phone calls,
Speaker 2: and I want to incorporate as many callers as possible
Speaker 2: this hour. We don't often get a chance to talk
Speaker 2: about Again, we're we're talking about something that affects every
Speaker 2: one of us. If you if you've looked at your
Speaker 2: electric bill, you know that something has to change because
Speaker 2: it's going in the wrong direction. Uh, you've heard me
Speaker 2: criticize the Department of Public Utilities who rolled over like
Speaker 2: puppy dogs in my opinion. Let me go to Tom
Speaker 2: tom Is in Brockton. Tom you first up with Dave
Speaker 2: Cash form EPA Regional administrator here in New England. Go ahead, Tom, okay.
Speaker 5: Number one, New York State will not allow a natural
Speaker 5: gas pipeline to enter its state as well as exit.
Speaker 5: That is harming the rest of the six New England states.
Speaker 5: There's plenty of natural gas in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Ohio,
Speaker 5: and Kentucky. All right, that's that's number one, number two, So.
Speaker 2: Tom, do you a favorite? I just want to check
Speaker 2: with Dave okay, because I believe you. But but is
Speaker 2: that accurate? You know? Is that the problem?
Speaker 6: I know the state.
Speaker 3: I don't know the specifics about New York State, but
Speaker 3: I'm not going to argue that's time national gas stop.
Speaker 2: Do you touch it to? Please? Tom? Tom be respect,
Speaker 2: Tom b respect Please.
Speaker 3: I don't know what's going on in New York. Sorry,
Speaker 3: what can I tell you? I'm in New England. I
Speaker 3: don't know what's going on in New York. But I'm
Speaker 3: not doubting that there's plenty of natural gas. I'm not
Speaker 3: doubting that.
Speaker 2: So he's not saying that. What he's saying is that
Speaker 2: New York will not permit me.
Speaker 3: I know, is not allowing gas to come through. I
Speaker 3: get that. I'm just saying I don't know that. That's
Speaker 3: all I don't know, Sir Tom accept Come on.
Speaker 5: Man, you're involved in the energy energy sector of the
Speaker 5: New England States. You should know that. Okay, I digress.
Speaker 5: Now the next thing, as far as solar energy, that's
Speaker 5: all well and good. I installed a five thousand watt
Speaker 5: solar system in my house in Brockton back in two
Speaker 5: thousand and eleven. The system, not including the labor and
Speaker 5: the materials it costs for the twenty four solar pans,
Speaker 5: animals and the inverter twenty to twenty two thousand dollars. Now,
Speaker 5: I got an eighty six hundred dollars credit because of
Speaker 5: the Obama administration for my federal taxes to pay for
Speaker 5: part of that. If I were to take out a
Speaker 5: calculator and multiply that out at a five percent interest
Speaker 5: rate over twenty years, that would be one hundred and
Speaker 5: four approximately one hundred and forty five dollars a month. Now,
Speaker 5: at the time in my house in Brockton, I was
Speaker 5: paying seventy five to eighty five dollars a month. I
Speaker 5: don't have any heavy utilities here, yeah, right, no gas range.
Speaker 5: So solar energy is not a panacea. Solar power can
Speaker 5: augment the power grid, the cleanest power that we have
Speaker 5: that can generate massive quantity of electricity that do not
Speaker 5: create greenhouse gases. And I do believe in man made
Speaker 5: climate change from carbon You do know what the answer
Speaker 5: to that is. It's hydro electric as well as nuclear.
Speaker 5: Nuclear power does not create greenhouse gases? Am I right?
Speaker 5: Am I wrong? You are correct? Okay, So why is
Speaker 5: it when I listen to progressives in this state tell
Speaker 5: me that, oh, well, China will eventually catch up the
Speaker 5: United States. I'm going to eye the EW retired electrician
Speaker 5: I've worked on coal burner power plants and Harris in Lumberport,
Speaker 5: West Virginia, where we put scrubbers on those power plants
Speaker 5: in the late eighties. China does not put scrubbers on
Speaker 5: their power plants. They're well over at eleven hundred active
Speaker 5: power plants and continuing to build coal fired power plants.
Speaker 5: That doesn't include the rest of the world that they're
Speaker 5: not mandating they put that stuff on there.
Speaker 2: Hey, Tom, get you get to a question please.
Speaker 5: So so, so the question is, so if we sacrifice
Speaker 5: the United States? Uh, energy policy to stop climate change
Speaker 5: and the rest of the world doesn't. How is that
Speaker 5: going to help out man made climate change?
Speaker 2: That's a good question.
Speaker 5: Go ahead, that's a great question.
Speaker 3: That's a great question when we see the dynamics.
Speaker 2: Whoa, whoa, Hey Tom, Tom, do me a favor you
Speaker 2: you asked you, you had a three minute question. Please
Speaker 2: don't interrupt him as he starts to give an answer.
Speaker 2: You're a better gentleman than that.
Speaker 3: Tom.
Speaker 6: Go ahead, Dave, thank you.
Speaker 3: Uh. Yeah, it's a great question. It's one that you
Speaker 3: know has the doubled the United States for a long time.
Speaker 3: But I feel like if we are expanding our use
Speaker 3: of things like solar in the way that you describe it,
Speaker 3: it's not going to be a panacea, certainly not here
Speaker 3: in the Northeast. Other parts of the country. It can
Speaker 3: provide way more capacity than it can here. Keeping nuclear
Speaker 3: and even expanding it, which in fact we did in
Speaker 3: the Biden Administrative ainistration. We invested in new nuclear technologies,
Speaker 3: safer nuclear technologies, expanding nuclear, bringing hydro resources that we
Speaker 3: have we were just talking about before the break from Canada.
Speaker 3: That makes a huge amount of sense, and moving to
Speaker 3: the real industrial scale, particularly in New England is offshore wind.
Speaker 3: And then we become the leaders in both the development
Speaker 3: of the technology and the innovation so that the rest
Speaker 3: of the globe can be our marketplace, so that we
Speaker 3: can sell these technologies. We don't have to buy them
Speaker 3: from Europe, which is where we get all our offshore
Speaker 3: wind technology right now. And that's the vision that I
Speaker 3: think that many have. That this is a long term
Speaker 3: vision of moving the United States into a clean energy
Speaker 3: future that will be cleaner air, less climate change, growth
Speaker 3: of green jobs, innovation, which is what America has always
Speaker 3: been great about. So that's that's that's my answer to that.
Speaker 3: And then you know, then China, hopefully then China will
Speaker 3: see by the way, China just surpassed Tesla in electric
Speaker 3: vehicle use because in electric vehicles sales, because they know
Speaker 3: they have to clean up their cities. You know, I've
Speaker 3: seen the pictures of Beijing and what it looks like
Speaker 3: on an awful day, and so they're moving. You know,
Speaker 3: why are we letting them clean?
Speaker 2: Let me get here before we go to break tom
Speaker 2: go ahead.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So what you're telling me is that we have
Speaker 5: to put our faith in China, which is the world's
Speaker 5: biggest pollute the United States that has gone down on
Speaker 5: a pollution Please, and don't peel on my legs. Tell
Speaker 5: me it's raining.
Speaker 2: Come on, Tom, please, Tom, let's have it.
Speaker 5: I want it honest. I want someone to be frank
Speaker 5: with me for a change. I don't need someone from
Speaker 5: Harvard Square, Cambridge.
Speaker 2: Good enough, Tom, I'm going to end it right there.
Speaker 2: Thanks very much, Tom for the call. I think you've
Speaker 2: been too disrespectful to my guests, and that's not like you.
Speaker 2: We'll take a break, Dave and right we'll be right
Speaker 2: back on night Side with a couple of more calls.
Speaker 2: And I ask simply for polite conversation. If that's too
Speaker 2: much to ask, then I find another talk show. Six.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Speaker 1: Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: Let's get right back to the phone, so we'll go
Speaker 2: to Mark and Saugus. Mark, you're next on Nightside. Please
Speaker 2: be polite, ask a couple of questions and go right ahead.
Speaker 6: Hi, Dann Mark from Saugus, Sir, I have a couple
Speaker 6: of questions about wind turburns. Why have to be so
Speaker 6: big to use smaller ones? Say you're on land the ocean.
Speaker 6: Seems like they need an awful lot of maintenance, like
Speaker 6: a boat. Always have to work on them and fix them.
Speaker 6: And there's something that's going to rot away and fall
Speaker 6: off in the ocean.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the that's the state as highways, but they
Speaker 3: don't in the state.
Speaker 6: The state owns land in between the highways, like we
Speaker 6: do with the prison down in Denham.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, okay, so let's give me, give me a
Speaker 2: chance to respond. Marks two great.
Speaker 3: Those are two great questions. And I am not an engineer,
Speaker 3: but my understanding is that as the blades get bigger,
Speaker 3: they're more efficient. In particularly offshore where the wind blows hard,
Speaker 3: they're more efficient and the whole unit becomes more efficient,
Speaker 3: so it can produce a lot more electricity for the
Speaker 3: amount of material that's used.
Speaker 4: And so.
Speaker 3: You know, when offshore technology started developing, it could really
Speaker 3: take advantage of the big, wide open space to make
Speaker 3: them really large. On land, yes, they are smaller, except
Speaker 3: they're getting larger too. But the ones like we've seen,
Speaker 3: you know, I remember being around when and I think
Speaker 3: they might still be there. On the on Boston City Hall,
Speaker 3: a bunch of small ones were put up, and I
Speaker 3: think at the airport. They had some too. They're okay,
Speaker 3: but they're really you know, they don't produce the kind
Speaker 3: of output that you need. So essentially, for wind turbines,
Speaker 3: you know, bigger is better and they capture more wind
Speaker 3: and convert more of it into electricity. Your other point,
Speaker 3: go ahead, Sorry, I'm just gonna say the other point
Speaker 3: is there are a lot of states that are trying
Speaker 3: to be creative about state land federal land that can
Speaker 3: be used in those creative ways. In fact, one of
Speaker 3: the things when I was first in the Patrick administration,
Speaker 3: we looked at the turnpike and you might note when
Speaker 3: you when you go by, I think it's maybe sinateic
Speaker 3: on one one of the early when you're heading west
Speaker 3: out of Boston, there's some solar panels that are on
Speaker 3: the on the burn that's right next to the service
Speaker 3: station there. And you know, those are popping up more
Speaker 3: and more and more as folks are realizing, hey, we
Speaker 3: could do this. And I know there are a lot
Speaker 3: of towns that are now covering like parking lots over
Speaker 3: their libraries and municipal buildings to take advantage of that
Speaker 3: land that can be turned into energy.
Speaker 2: Why Mark Mark Cover both the questions.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think I think they should try
Speaker 6: like put them in the mediums of the highways and
Speaker 6: maybe well we got some great hills.
Speaker 2: We've got great hills in the Berkshires. If you go
Speaker 2: to put them awhere, put them out in the Berkshires
Speaker 2: and run the streetline.
Speaker 6: See what happens.
Speaker 2: All right? Okay, Hey, Mark from Zaga is great calls.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Thanks and gentlemen, thanks, good night.
Speaker 2: Who we go to gym in Kansas City, Jim.
Speaker 7: Go right ahead, Dan, Hey, thanks for taking my call.
Speaker 7: Would be how you've been fantastic? Okay, hey, uh okay,
Speaker 7: I'm not gonna I was gonna ask you what happened
Speaker 7: if you heard about what happened to Big Bird, but no,
Speaker 7: I gotta be respectful. So hey, look at uh have
Speaker 7: you ever been up two hundred feet on the outside
Speaker 7: of a structure?
Speaker 3: I I I actually have climbed up to the top
Speaker 3: of one of the wind turbines that's on the military
Speaker 3: base on Cape Cod and it was extraordinary. That was amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Well, okay, I guess what I'm kind of wondering is,
Speaker 7: who are you going to get to work on these things?
Speaker 3: That's a great question. And here's and here's something I
Speaker 3: do know a little bit about this because we had
Speaker 3: some federal funding that was part of the Inflation Reduction
Speaker 3: Act that was going to workforce development and training. And
Speaker 3: I met a guy down in New Bedford and like
Speaker 3: four or five years ago, he was down on his luck.
Speaker 3: He had lost a couple of jobs. He was really
Speaker 3: good with the hands, and then he entered one of
Speaker 3: these training programs that then was a pipeline into the
Speaker 3: steel workers Union, where he exactly did what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: His job now is to climb up these huge poles
Speaker 3: out in the ocean to do whatever maintenance is required.
Speaker 3: And so at least here in the Northeast, there's like
Speaker 3: a huge opportunity to have workforce development and job growth,
Speaker 3: particularly in these ports that have been hard hit and
Speaker 3: are on hard economic times. So their future is about
Speaker 3: being jobs too.
Speaker 5: Wow, that's a great question.
Speaker 2: Hey, Jim, that is a fabulous question. They couldn't pay
Speaker 2: me enough, Jim, I don't know about you.
Speaker 7: Well, that's see, that's what I'm saying. I'm the kind
Speaker 7: of guy that'll climb up there. I've done high rise
Speaker 7: work before, and I'll do it, but you've got to
Speaker 7: pay the right amount of money, and I doubt seriously
Speaker 7: whether you can come up with that kind of cabbage.
Speaker 2: All right, fair enough in here, Thanks Jim, great question,
Speaker 2: great question. Thanks good. Let's go to Mike and Salem'm
Speaker 2: gonna get you and also Walter in from Limits to
Speaker 2: go ahead, Mike.
Speaker 8: Hey, how's it going.
Speaker 2: Dan doing great? We got a couple of minutes for you.
Speaker 2: You go right ahead. What's your comment to question from
Speaker 2: my guest Dave Cash?
Speaker 8: I just I just got a question. You know, they're
Speaker 8: talking about nuclear being you know, clean and all this,
Speaker 8: but what do they do with the nuclear waste when
Speaker 8: it's done?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
Speaker 5: I mean, how.
Speaker 8: Clean is is nuclear? If you know there's waste, same
Speaker 8: thing with any other.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: So I think we should put them on rocket ships
Speaker 2: and send them out to like Jupiter. You guys are laughing.
Speaker 2: I'm serious, No.
Speaker 5: I hear you.
Speaker 8: I watched on on YouTube. They're like burying that stuff
Speaker 8: on the ground. But it's like how I mean, how long.
Speaker 2: No one wants and no one wants it? No one
Speaker 2: wants it. They want they buried in places like Utah
Speaker 2: down some mountain.
Speaker 3: Or whatever, Mike, Mike, that question is like the sixty
Speaker 3: four it's like the sixty four billion dollar question. And
Speaker 3: it goes back to Tom's point earlier. And I didn't
Speaker 3: get to answer this, but that is that that's the
Speaker 3: It doesn't cause you know, climate change, but it does
Speaker 3: have this nuclear waste problems which hasn't really really been
Speaker 3: solved yet, and they're trying to develop new technologies. Again
Speaker 3: this administration, by the administration invested in that. But that's
Speaker 3: a it's a very good point. And maybe you're also
Speaker 3: thinking about like the there's some toxic chemicals that are
Speaker 3: in batteries. And one of the interesting things that I
Speaker 3: know the Department of Energy. I was in an environment,
Speaker 3: not in energy, but I know that there's a big
Speaker 3: investment in how do you create a circular economy so
Speaker 3: that when the battery reaches the end of its life,
Speaker 3: you can take out the component parts and recycle it.
Speaker 3: And because all those rare earth minerals are still in there,
Speaker 3: and they're coming up with ways to do that that
Speaker 3: are economical.
Speaker 2: All right, my great question. I want to get one
Speaker 2: more in if I can. Okay, my friend, thank you
Speaker 2: so much. I have a great Mike uh, Walter and
Speaker 2: Levens Or Walter, you're the last of the hour, and
Speaker 2: go right ahead your own daycast.
Speaker 9: My question is back in deval Patrick's administration, he passed
Speaker 9: or had a law passed, and just correct me if
Speaker 9: it really did happen that the electric companies are able
Speaker 9: to recoup any loss revenue from people installing so and
Speaker 9: when and whatnot at the houses without even going through
Speaker 9: the registerat you're requesting increases. Is that still going on.
Speaker 3: Now? I'm not I'm not exactly sure what you're meaning,
Speaker 3: but so it was, it might be this and this
Speaker 3: happened is happening all over the country right there. Electric
Speaker 3: utilities have an incentive fell as much electricity as they can,
Speaker 3: right because they get paid by the killowot hour for
Speaker 3: the electricity to go through their buyers, right, So they're
Speaker 3: not really going to want a homeowner to reduce their
Speaker 3: energy use, so they're not going to be too helpful
Speaker 3: on the energy efficiency side, even though it would help
Speaker 3: the homeowner, they would lose money. So many states have
Speaker 3: put together these kind of plans where they don't recoup
Speaker 3: all of it, but they would recoup some so that
Speaker 3: they have an incentive to participate in helping the homeowners,
Speaker 3: you know, save money, because that's what this is. I've
Speaker 3: got to be all about. It's got to be about
Speaker 3: helping the customer lower their rates, lower their bills, not
Speaker 3: be hit by a winter like this. So I think
Speaker 3: that was I don't know the specifics, but there are
Speaker 3: a lot of plans that have incentives for the companies
Speaker 3: to benefit, to have an incentive to make sure that
Speaker 3: their customers use energy efficiency things. I mean, that's that,
Speaker 3: and then everybody.
Speaker 9: Back when it was passed, I remember reading a nautical
Speaker 9: in the local newspaper and I killed myself for not
Speaker 9: saving it.
Speaker 3: But it was like, you know, I'm.
Speaker 2: All right, we got it. Hey, Walter, I hate to
Speaker 2: do this to you, but you called late and we're
Speaker 2: now flat up against the ten o'clock news.
Speaker 9: So thanks for raising that issue going to that law.
Speaker 2: So we will. Thanks Walter, I appreciate it very much.
Speaker 2: Some good calls, challenging calls, David, more than hell your own,
Speaker 2: as always, I appreciate it. We got to do this
Speaker 2: again because there's a whole we only scratch the surface tonight. Okay,
Speaker 2: let's agree.
Speaker 3: With you, and you know we got we got Earthstake
Speaker 3: coming up in April, maybe that would be a good
Speaker 3: time to do it. End of April.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe maybe a little later than that, you know,
Speaker 2: but let me be the first to wish you a
Speaker 2: happy Earth Day. Okay, that's important.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Dan. It's always a pleasure to be on
Speaker 3: this show. I love hearing the questions from your listeners.
Speaker 3: Their sharp, they're interesting, they're intelligent, they're just like, get
Speaker 3: to the heart of what these issues are, even if
Speaker 3: they get a little hot under the collar.
Speaker 2: That's okay, Yep, yep, Tom. Tom was one of my
Speaker 2: more callers, but I think it stepped over the line
Speaker 2: a little bit, but we'll leave that one go again.
Speaker 2: You and I don't see the world the same way,
Speaker 2: but I think we have good conversations, which is all
Speaker 2: I want to love with. All Right, David, thank you soon,
Speaker 2: Thank you again, my friend. We'll talk soon. When we
Speaker 2: get back. We're going to continue our conversation about this
Speaker 2: now famous signal chat kerfuffle. I think it's a fascinating story.
Speaker 2: The Democrats are trying their best and the Republicans are
Speaker 2: trying to brush it under the rug. I'd love to
Speaker 2: know what you think. We'll be back on Night's side
Speaker 2: right after this