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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasiko's I Am Dana Valley coming at

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you with the One the Only Mister mort Jensen of

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the NBA podcast fame, of Forbes fame, and of Yah

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Yahoo Sports fame, as well as OnlyFans. Celebrity plans have

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been scrapped, as we are inclined to do this time

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of year, because the New York Knicks have fired head

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coach Tom Thibodeaux after five seasons, fresh off giving him

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a multi year extension last summer, and I believe he has.

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Ian Begley said he had like ten plus million left

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for the next three years at least on there. So

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they're taking quite a bit of a hit. In the

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statement before I throw it to more that Sham's had

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for the report was that the knickser is basically hell

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bent on winning a championship and they believe that a

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different voice is going to change things for them. That's

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where we're gonna pick up off and running. But first,

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the question everyone wants to know the answer to more,

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how the heck are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well? So is the ketchup state that I

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apparently have on my shirt? So yes, it's it's a full.

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Speaker 1: Hot blood from when you saw the news and you're

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such a TIB's loyalist that you bit part of your

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tongue off in blood trip.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm pretty sure. I even brought up tips

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in our coach's Hot Seats segment that.

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Speaker 1: Was which, by the way, I think was fair. But

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it is noteworthy when you make the Eastern Conference finals

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and then get fired. I would say fairly, it is noteworthy.

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Speaker 2: But are we shocked at all? Really? So, so here's

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here's I'll take you through my reaction slash thought process.

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Because we were having dinner when I saw the notification.

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I didn't even click on the tweet. I just read it.

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I was like huh okay, and kept going at it

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to be honest, because it wasn't because you know, I'm

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Homer Simpson and just focusing on the food. It just like, yeah,

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not surprised, Like I just put my phone down pretty quickly.

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It's like that makes sense because look that the noise

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around him has just been too much. Like this has

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been a thing all year long. Every Knicks fan has had,

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you know, He's or her moment where they're like this

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is enough, and you have media punt. It's also saying look,

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this is becoming an issue with the lack of bench

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usage and the lack of offensive creativity and so on

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and so on. So at some point I was just like,

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you know what, unless he wins the title, I'm really

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sure we're at least looking at a discussion here.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a fair way to look at it.

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And I want to make it clear. I mean, anyone

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who's ever listened, if you're stumbling onto this for the

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first time, you may not know this, but on this podcast,

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I have never once been what you would consider a

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TIBs supporter. But I do think context is important here.

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I believe that Tom Thibodeau is a was a problem

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the Knicks. I do not actually believe that he was

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the problem. I think he showed some growth, and I

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think that it took him too long to get there.

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I mean, he explored more of his bench by the

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end of the playoffs. Again, why weren't you doing that

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all season? He finally got rid of the starting lineup

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which was May for most of the year, and then

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lost it two minutes during the playoffs. Took you too

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long to do that. But what I keep coming back

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to is what else was he honestly supposed to do.

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That would have made this exact roster more of a

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contender than it ended up being. And it's not to

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say that I think he was the right coach. I

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think I guess The two things I'm getting caught up

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on is, if you're getting rid of him, you better

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believe that you have the upgrade in mind. And I

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don't know. I think Michael Malone is a really good

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head coach. He feels a little tibsy into me. You know,

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if you want someone to go, oh, we need to

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see more of Tyler Kohlik next season. That would have

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made a difference this year. That's not really your guy.

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But the other thing I keep getting hung up on

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is the Knicks game up control of seven first round

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picks last summer. They brought back Mcal Bridges and Karl

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Anthony Towns, neither of whom is nor have they ever

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been a true number two option. And I think the

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Bridges opportunity costs things the most. But he is even

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further away from a traditional number two option than Karl

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Anthony Towns. And the issue with Towns is, you know,

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I criticized him a lot for the three point volume

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he was at per minute, the lowest he was since

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the first time he was with Tibbs as a head coach,

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which the jokes going around are actually funny that Kat

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got TIBs fired a second time. I do find that

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little hysterical. But like you can't like if Towns has

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never really been a number two and he's battled these

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offensive inconsistencies and involvement issues, He's never been a great

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live dribble playmaker. There's always been sort of the why

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doesn't he take more threes about him? I don't know

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how much of that you can't I won't even say

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falls on Tibbs, but is something that a new coach

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is going to fix. And I think what's gonna be

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the big question here is that. And I would argue

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that this can This definitely was Tibbs's fault to an extent.

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The Jalen Brunson Karl Anthony Towns dynamic deteriorated as the

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season went on, and so I was just writing about

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this before we hopped on. But up until January first, more,

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Jalen Brunson assisted on over twenty percent of Karl Anthony

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Towns's buckets. That number plummeted from January first to when

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Jallen Brunson got injured. Then it plummeted again to about

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like fourteen percent during the playoffs. It feels like by

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the end of the year felt like they were two

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separate entities. It felt like they were better off in

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staggered minutes than together. And that's a problem. And I

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will also before I throw it back to you, I

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will say it's a problem that even if you think

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it can be solved offensively, I don't know that it

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can be solved defensively. This might always be a team

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where you're looking at it and saying, oh, no, like

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the nick just aren't going to be able to cobble

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together this really good defense with those two in the

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game at the same time. And so what you're then

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I would assume banking on is well, there was just

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so much left on the table offensively, and that was

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the bigger issue here where people look and they say, oh,

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fifth in point score per possession, how much better are

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you supposed to get? Well, they were fourteenth from January

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first onward. And I know Brunson missed time with his

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ankle injury towards the end of the year, so I

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understand the logic is what I'm getting at, and I

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think it might even end up being the right decision,

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But I also don't think that it can be the

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only change that is made just because I don't. I

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don't look at this roster, after having seen it together

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for ninety plus games now and think that's a team

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that would beat the full strength Celtics, or that's a

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team I know would beat the Calves, or that's a

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team that you know, them making this decision by the

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way we're recording this, you know, like thirty six hours

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before the NBA Finals, them making this decision before potentially

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witnessing the thunder, just establishing hey, no one's even close

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to touching us. I also find that fascinating too, So

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a lot of moving parts here. But if I had

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to sum it up, my long winded ran away of

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saying is I think it's justifiable, it might even be

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the right call. But I don't think that if they

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just run this roster back and add like an eighth man,

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a different maybe an upgrade over the seventh man, I

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don't think that's going to be enough to turn them

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into the team that it's not just that they were

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trying to be, but I would argue that they have

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to be after you expended so many of your assets

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last summer.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, I agree with you very much along

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the way here because I wrote a piece over at

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Yahoo as well, where I also kind of pointed to

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management saying, given the roster that he had to work with,

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there are some shortages here and there, like the bench

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for example. Are we supposed to sit here and say

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tips could have created a strong product when the best

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bench player is Mitchell Robinson and he didn't come back

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until when was that like March March? Right?

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Speaker 1: Seventeen regular season games he played it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like virtually no regular season experience this year, and

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Pacombe Dottier like a nineteen year old Frenchman who's getting acclimated.

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Like that's just that's tough, right. You can say, oh, well,

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Cameron Pain is a veteran. Sure, he's also Cameron Pain.

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So there's a limit. There's some limits to what you

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can expect right at a certain level. Now, I will

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say I do think Landry Shammitt that was a little

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unfair to camera, But I mean, you get my drift.

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I do think Landrew Shammitt wasn't utilized enough like this.

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This was a team that too often needed three point

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volume and just a player who could come in and

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stretch the floor, and for some reason you didn't play Shammit. Like,

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I know, he's inconsistent, but he will have games where

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he goes like six for nine. He will have games

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where that three is sticking and he could actually help them.

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So for him to get so many games where he's

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playing like ten minutes or even not playing much at all,

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and that was dumb. That was that was just ridiculous.

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So it's again, it's one of those situations where you

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actually said it Tips was a problem, not the problem.

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I think that's the best takeaway from this. But I mean,

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you have to solve issues one at a time. So

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if TIPS was a problem, now you have to fix that,

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and then afterwards you have to fix the roster. You

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have to find ways to get depth right. So if

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you get a coach in who is more let's say,

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proficient in regards to minute's distribution and in just in

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terms of building a bench unit that kind of works,

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and also not playing all five starters over thirty five

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minutes per game in the regular season, that might also

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just be a factor.

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Speaker 1: I can actually ask you a question about that. Yes,

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of course I do tend to agree with you about

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the minute stuff. But everybody finished the season healthy for them.

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Do you think when you were watching them that exhaustion

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played a role in how they ended up faring against

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the Pacers? Because I looked at it as more of

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a personnel like the talent and the strength of the

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personnel issue, rather than man, look how many minutes they

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logged up until this.

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Speaker 2: Point, specifically against the Pacers. I don't think it was

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that egregious, But I do think we saw plenty of

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regular season games over the course of the year where

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you saw a lot of those guys just huffing and

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puffing and there wasn't a whole lot of gas left.

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So you kind of wonder what would have been the

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effect here if you had been able to shave off

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some of those man's I mean we saw. I think

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Cleveland is a good example. When Kenny Atkinson came in,

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he basically played every one of the main guys in

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the low thirties or late twenties. They had staying power.

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Of course, they got injured at just the worst time

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that their timing was awful, something that for some reason

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seems to be flying under the radar. Everyone is trying

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to break up the back quart right now, which I

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don't understand, Like is.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, like I must be so in my I

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haven't seen it.

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Speaker 2: That's like when I say everyone, I don't mean media,

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I don't mean like analysts, I mean like fans. That's

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I keep seeing it pop up in like, you know,

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on Instagram, on Facebook, like the comment section, like oh

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this backboard, and I'm I've seen it a ton, and

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I'm just like what, what? Why? Why is that a thing?

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You have to run things back, and you have to

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run them back in order to also optimize it. Do

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I think the Knicks were optimized given that Josh Hart

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and Mikhail Bridges were both playing forty seven plus minutes

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per game, that o Jananobi was also damn near forty

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seven per game. No, I don't think that's optimized. I

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think I would want a team that is that potent

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in terms of like the raw talent level to enter

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the postseason fully healthy. And if you can shave games

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off just by having them play lesser a fewer minutes, yeah,

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so be it. I mean it's good if you again,

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I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh, mc kail

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Bridges shouldn't play eighty two games per year, but he

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will automatically save games if he goes from thirty seven

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to forty two minutes per game, like he will just

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kind of I don't I haven't done the math, but

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he'll shave like what five six seven games off technically

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over the course of a season. That's not nothing.

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Speaker 1: No, it's not nothing. I guess it's just you have

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the talent on this roster to continue to win basketball games.

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While doing that. I think you could argue that the

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Knicks needed to. I mean, it's probably more egregious when

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you look at their losses that they have and they

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were over there twenty nine of them this year or

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thirty one of them, excuse me, And so you could say, like,

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why didn't he pulled? Like for sure, So I would

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agree with you there, But then that comes back to

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sort of the the depth issue of it. Does I

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don't know how much he was supposed to extend it,

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especially with because until much Robinson comes back, you're dealing

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with six dependable players. And I agree with you on

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all your Landry sham At points. I think he kind

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of proved as much during the playoffs, where even gave

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him some fight on defense too, like defended some of

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the pacers as big provided some ball pressure of their own.

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But he was dealing with a shoulder injury for half

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the season, and so it's like, when he comes back,

258
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how are you supposed to integrate him to the train

259
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that's already moving. So it's complicated, and so I think

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I think there are kind of two more questions just

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to ask on this subject. And the first is are

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there any names that you've seen or that you can

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think of that you think makes sense to slide in

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here to replace Thibodeaux? And if there's sort of a

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dearth of answers on either one of our ends, like

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that sort of speaks to I won't say how problematic

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this is, but how risky of a gambit the Knicks

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are making right here. It's a good question. I look

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this having a couple hours ago.

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Speaker 2: I haven't really duck down and like looked at available coaches.

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I'll be completely upfront about that. What a thought that

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did hit me was kind of scouring the college ranks

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and trying to identify some of the most potent offensive

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coaches out there, because I do think this team needs

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to lean in on offense a lot. Like I'm not

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gonna sit here and say, oh, you have a meeting

277
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with Josh Hart and Mikilbridge is a no gen and

278
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nopan you tell all three hey guys, stop playing defense.

279
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That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you have

280
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to make sure that offense is the you know, the

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drying vehicle of this and what Josh Hart Mkilbridge's no

282
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genit nob he gives you defensively. Obviously it's also going

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to be necessary, but the focus should be on optimizing,

284
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you know, floor spacing, three point volume offensive diversity, because

285
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let's just be real, it's a lot of one or

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two pass go offense for tips. He's not exactly a

287
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mastermind offensively. He never has been. So I would like

288
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to see that narrative or not narrative. I would like

289
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to see the script just flipped a little bit, and

290
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if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but I at

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least want to see it. I've told you this before.

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I think there is a version of Karl Anthony Sounds

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who can average like an efficient thirty per game. I

294
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think he's that good of an offensive offensive player, he

295
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has to be geared towards it. But he also needs

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to have a coach who understands how to implement him

297
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and use him and kind of encourage him to take

298
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more threes, encourage him to take more shots. And I

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just don't think Tips is that guy.

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Speaker 1: I'd be curious to see if they'd be willing to

301
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go in a first time direction. I think this front

302
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,559
office has gone against the grain under Leon Rose relative

303
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to the Knicks that everyone memed years ago, So it

304
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wouldn't shock me if they're trying to get in on

305
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you know, Chris Quinn. It just like seems like one

306
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,200
of the more coveted, just like assistant guys. But it's

307
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,399
also just you know, I mean, we saw the Lakers

308
00:15:36,399 --> 00:15:38,279
do it with JJ Reddick just as one example, and

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that's a high pressure job with a first time head coach.

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But I part of me just feels like it would

311
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be fairly surprising to see them go with the first

312
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,759
time roun. And I hope, honestly, I hope, just for

313
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,360
the memes and the jokes, that Jay Wright gets an interview.

314
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I hope that he just gets an interview just to

315
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the Villanova connection. And then, by the way, that's another

316
00:15:57,759 --> 00:16:01,480
part of this. I'm assuming you consult Jalen Brunson about

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this after he takes such a below market deal that

318
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,679
his extension last year, so I guess he wouldn't have

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00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,279
like defended or like prevented them from doing it. But

320
00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:13,399
if you did do this and didn't like kind of

321
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,639
get his approve or stamp okay, that would be weird

322
00:16:15,679 --> 00:16:17,399
and I would just be curious how he would process

323
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,759
all of this because I would argue that he's been

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00:16:19,799 --> 00:16:23,559
more supportive of Tibbs than like ninety five percent of

325
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,639
star players in the NBA are of their head coach.

326
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So that's just another weird wrinkle.

327
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Speaker 2: I mean, I'd be kind of surprised if they didn't

328
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,559
talk to him. But at the end of the day,

329
00:16:35,159 --> 00:16:38,440
he also seems to be very low maintenance, so maybe

330
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they kind of bake that in and go, hey, you

331
00:16:40,159 --> 00:16:41,720
know what, like he'll find a way.

332
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,200
Speaker 1: Well, does Rick Brunson still have an assistant coaching job?

333
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:45,080
How does that work? Now?

334
00:16:46,879 --> 00:16:49,440
Speaker 2: Just make sure my dad is okay, Yeah, imagine he's

335
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:55,759
the next head coach. Yeah, all right, that'd be funny.

336
00:16:56,799 --> 00:17:01,919
I'd be there for that narrative. Funny, No, I can't imagine.

337
00:17:02,039 --> 00:17:03,960
I can't imagine, but like, yeah, even if you go

338
00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:06,960
out and scoured like the assistant coaches around the league,

339
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,640
that'd be fine. I wouldn't hate that. Also, I wouldn't

340
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,880
hate to see them also begin to make additional hires

341
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:19,079
around the marchines. So, for example, the Bulls inexplicably fired

342
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,599
Peter Patton, their shooting coach, a guy who really made

343
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a name for himself when he was in New Orleans.

344
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We all know Chicago didn't have great space and going

345
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,359
into the season he turned that around. I think they

346
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,599
ended up being like the second best three point shooting

347
00:17:34,599 --> 00:17:38,920
team in the league. Then they fired him because management

348
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or idiots like hiring him to a new head coach

349
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and having him work a ton with Josh Hart and

350
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Mikail Bridges, who seems to be changing his jump shot

351
00:17:49,039 --> 00:17:52,559
every seven months. Maybe getting some sustainability there, Like just

352
00:17:53,039 --> 00:17:57,039
whoever you hire, I wouldn't stop there with a head

353
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coach and then just his normal army of assistance. I

354
00:18:00,759 --> 00:18:03,279
want to be proactive about this and go in and

355
00:18:03,319 --> 00:18:05,559
get the best guys for the job. You have to

356
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,400
if you want to have a crack at it.

357
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,079
Speaker 1: I was already kind of hoping that maybe they would

358
00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:13,720
figure out a way to bring in Terry Stotts to

359
00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:16,559
help run the offense next season just under TIBs, Like

360
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,960
that was sort of I thought that was I don't know,

361
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,519
maybe TIBs wasn't open to it. And we have the

362
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report from I think it was Ian Begley that James

363
00:18:23,319 --> 00:18:26,039
Dolan was present in like some of these exit interviews

364
00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:28,839
with players, which is very atypical, and so was the

365
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,119
decision already made? Did he consult these guys about the

366
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,759
TIBs thing? But I just wondered, why didn't you maybe

367
00:18:33,799 --> 00:18:35,880
do more to futs and fiddle with the staff under

368
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,960
TIBs if you were looking for a more creative offense

369
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or someone to be just like give the input of like,

370
00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:42,920
hey we need to extend the rotation or try this.

371
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,960
I honestly, like I said, I'm not shocked, but I

372
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,480
am mildly surprised just given that I don't know that

373
00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:50,720
this is a like when a coach get fires, it

374
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,119
feels like it's a no brainer because there's obviously a

375
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,599
clear upgrade or like air apparent out there, or they

376
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,720
just lost the locker room entirely. And now we know

377
00:18:58,759 --> 00:19:01,559
what Michael Bridges said a couple months ago, and we

378
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,680
know that Towns and Tims don't have like the best

379
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,119
track record together. So maybe there was some stuff like

380
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,599
festering that then bubbled to the surface and this was

381
00:19:10,079 --> 00:19:13,000
reached the point of no return. But I think that's

382
00:19:13,039 --> 00:19:16,079
the part that why I'm still mildly surprised is that

383
00:19:16,319 --> 00:19:18,920
this doesn't feel like a no brainer decision to me.

384
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:21,519
I do want to have a final question I would

385
00:19:21,519 --> 00:19:25,400
ask on this is what is the like, the next

386
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,759
biggest problem? Then for them, we're gonna have more on

387
00:19:27,799 --> 00:19:30,839
their offseason. It's coming shortly everyone, I promise, but just

388
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,720
as like not necessarily going into the weeds and addressing everything.

389
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,480
But what do you view as this team's because I'm

390
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,519
assuming unless I'm detecting something, I'm not like, you don't

391
00:19:39,599 --> 00:19:42,200
view this as a contender is currently constructed? Right? Or

392
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,680
do you think that the head coaching change does kind

393
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,039
of prove to be the skeleton key that puts them

394
00:19:47,039 --> 00:19:47,960
on that level?

395
00:19:48,319 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 2: No? No, I mean you need one more thing, and

396
00:19:50,279 --> 00:19:52,599
that's that's stepped. We already kind of kind of covered

397
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,599
that a little bit. I think they're closer than what

398
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,240
most people make them out ask because they do have

399
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,960
the top tier town level. I mean, there's just no

400
00:20:01,079 --> 00:20:05,240
debate about that. They have great, great, top tier talent.

401
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,079
I think it kind of flew onto the radar a

402
00:20:08,079 --> 00:20:12,880
little bit because Mikail was Let's just be real about this,

403
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,119
Mikail was sort of a disappointment here in year one.

404
00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:18,480
It wasn't just his three point shot, it was the defense.

405
00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:21,559
You and I have talked about that at lengths. He

406
00:20:21,759 --> 00:20:25,759
wasn't as plug and playable as you hoped he was,

407
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,519
especially for what you relinquished Tory services. So he'll need

408
00:20:29,559 --> 00:20:34,759
a bounce back year and again, if Cameron Payne is

409
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,000
one of your key pinch guys, you're just not going

410
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:38,839
to make it that far. He shouldn't be playing in

411
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,839
the playoffs, he shouldn't be playing a lot, generally speaking.

412
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,839
So if you fix the depth, if you get a

413
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,960
creative offensive coach in there and perhaps a shooting coach,

414
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,599
and you kind of work around the margins with some

415
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,920
of the stuff. I actually think they're closer to a

416
00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,680
title than most might make it appear, as I think.

417
00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:03,279
Speaker 1: The biggest question they may still need to answer is,

418
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,400
do they think that predominantly Karl Anthony Towns is a

419
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,400
four or five? Because I think that impacts how you

420
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,440
go about fleshing out your debt. Well, then you're saying

421
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,079
that you can build a capable defense around him and

422
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,400
John Brunson, and I don't necessarily know if that's the case, Like,

423
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,240
what do you to upgrade from Josh Hart on the

424
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,599
defensive end? Reduce McBride in those minutes is just and

425
00:21:24,599 --> 00:21:26,319
then if you're gonna say, well, Mitchell Robinson and then

426
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,839
that slides Karl Anthony Towns to the four, and that

427
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,000
creates other sorts of issues to where those minutes are intriguing.

428
00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:34,359
Don't get me wrong, but if you are worried about

429
00:21:34,759 --> 00:21:37,119
kar Anthy Towns and Jalen Brunson not being involved in

430
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,920
enough actions together, inserting someone else who needs to be

431
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,319
the primary screener in Mitchell Robinson isn't going to help that.

432
00:21:43,759 --> 00:21:46,200
But if you do decide that's the best course moving forward,

433
00:21:46,559 --> 00:21:48,839
you then need a third big for sure, because I

434
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,119
know you can stagger Mitch and Karl Anthony Towns, but

435
00:21:51,559 --> 00:21:54,680
when they're beginning games together, that just gets inherently more

436
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,759
difficult and so like, a precious to Chua isn't gonna

437
00:21:56,759 --> 00:21:58,920
cut it. You need a third, either someone to start

438
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,359
in lieu of Mitchell in and he comes off the bench,

439
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,960
or just bringing a capable Bacon come off the bench.

440
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,200
And if you view Karl Anthony Towns as a five,

441
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,920
then I think what the question then becomes is like,

442
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,960
how do we either optimize the defense around him or

443
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,519
what's the player? What's the starter we need to add

444
00:22:15,839 --> 00:22:18,960
to optimize the offense between him and Jalen Brunson. And

445
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,960
we know it's not Heart in that instance, it won't

446
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,759
be Mitchell Robinson. Deuce McBride played forty minutes more in

447
00:22:24,839 --> 00:22:27,200
total in the regular season in playoffs with the four

448
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,240
other starters that aren't Josh Hart so like, and that's

449
00:22:31,279 --> 00:22:34,559
just really tough. And this bleeds into well, they don't

450
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,480
have a first round pick to trade this summer, and

451
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,759
at most they're gonna have the mini mid level, which

452
00:22:39,799 --> 00:22:42,160
comes in at five point seven million dollars to spend

453
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,799
in free agency. I don't know what. Maybe that gets

454
00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:47,119
you a like a really useful player, Does it get

455
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,960
you a starter, Does it get you a sixth or

456
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,440
seventh guy? I don't know. But like, that's just they're

457
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,640
in a tough spot to say even if you want

458
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,599
to boil it down to they just need more depth.

459
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,039
They're a tough spot to carve out more depth. And like,

460
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:02,960
I just don't think the answer is in house, I guess,

461
00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:05,759
is what I'm saying, because it's more of You could

462
00:23:05,759 --> 00:23:07,799
say Tim isn't good at developing the youngsters, but I

463
00:23:07,839 --> 00:23:10,359
don't know if more of Pacomb Dottie or Tyler Kohlik

464
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,680
would have moved the needle in the right direction for

465
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,599
this team. And they weren't nearly dominant enough in the

466
00:23:14,599 --> 00:23:17,440
regular season to say, hey, let's get these guys reps

467
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,559
while still winning fifty plus games.

468
00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 2: No, definitely not this year, but I do think it's

469
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,480
fair to wonder next year, like with a new coach

470
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,920
who might emphasize depth a little bit more. If you

471
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,200
can get it, maybe you'll split it, split up Mitchell

472
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,480
Robbins's contract into two pieces that like.

473
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,839
Speaker 1: You can make twelve million dollars.

474
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I understand, I understand, and that's that's rough

475
00:23:42,599 --> 00:23:45,880
as hell, But like, perhaps you can find something. I'm

476
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,519
not saying it's gonna be easy. That's I'm not I'm

477
00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:50,680
not in that chair. I'm not getting paid millions of

478
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,599
dollars to make those decisions. But I mean, that's why

479
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,119
you have to scour with the market. That's why you

480
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,119
have to like turn every stone. But my point here

481
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:03,680
is if Tyler Kollick and co Daddy a place more

482
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,000
minutes next year in the regular season, when both are

483
00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:09,720
a year older now they have a year of experience roughly,

484
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,000
I just wouldn't hate it. I'm not saying that's going

485
00:24:13,079 --> 00:24:15,480
to be the solution, but I'm I'm the type of

486
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,799
person who would always prefer to shave off minutes from

487
00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:22,039
my starters if I can get away with it. Of course,

488
00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:25,400
I agree with you, you need something else, and I

489
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,960
do think finding a third big is some preciously to you. It. Yeah,

490
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,480
absolutely is something that should be on the docket. There

491
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,319
are a lot of things that should be on the docket.

492
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,079
Speaker 1: Would you consider the answers and she just mentioned Mitchell

493
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,240
Robinson turning him into two players? Is there any realm

494
00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:45,359
in which the answer is, well, can you turn Karl

495
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,839
Anthony Towns into two or three rotation players and you're

496
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:48,799
better off that way.

497
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,079
Speaker 2: It depends on the rotation players. I would say I mean,

498
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,680
the talent level is ridiculous. I'm not pivoting off that,

499
00:24:54,839 --> 00:24:59,200
but I do agree that if you find the right

500
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,920
recipe where you can say, Okay, we turned Carl into

501
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,119
this and you get two high end starters in there

502
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:13,119
who just compliment everyone else perfectly, obviously you should look

503
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,559
at that. Yes, I'm not sitting here and saying Carl

504
00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:19,319
should be untouchable, but I am saying I think we

505
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:26,599
dramatically underestimate his offensive potential, offensive impact. If you know,

506
00:25:26,759 --> 00:25:28,920
if he's let out of his handcuffs.

507
00:25:30,759 --> 00:25:33,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, I guess that's fair. Do you have

508
00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:34,920
anything else that you want to get off your chest

509
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,400
about this decision which you seem a little bit less

510
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,559
surprised about than I did, But we're both skeptical that

511
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:42,039
it's going to make enough of a difference.

512
00:25:42,279 --> 00:25:46,279
Speaker 2: I look, there's been this thing for so many years

513
00:25:46,319 --> 00:25:50,440
where Tips has had like a three year shell life

514
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,759
in a way, where like he's been this and then

515
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,079
he's kind of I don't know, maybe he's just dragged

516
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,839
on his players a lot, and the players are starting

517
00:25:59,839 --> 00:26:02,400
to tune him out. Five years I think he had

518
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,640
in Chicago, five years he had here with the Knicks,

519
00:26:04,759 --> 00:26:09,359
was it three in Minnesota? Somewhere along those lines. It

520
00:26:09,519 --> 00:26:12,519
just it's not surprising. It follows a pattern.

521
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, again, I don't think it's shocking. I just thought

522
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,599
I I guess I was just under the guys that

523
00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:22,039
knowing that I don't think that, And this is just

524
00:26:22,079 --> 00:26:24,519
me thinking that I don't think that this is going

525
00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:27,559
to fix enough of what needs to be fixed. I'm

526
00:26:27,559 --> 00:26:30,480
just curious as to whether this signals the front office

527
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,599
disagrees in that context of no, like we think the

528
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,759
team is basically in place and a new coach bay

529
00:26:35,799 --> 00:26:38,079
the difference, or is this just one of I don't

530
00:26:38,079 --> 00:26:40,480
want to say many, but one of a couple of

531
00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:44,480
significant changes to come over the offseason. I do have

532
00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:46,759
a question which just not tips related.

533
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,799
Speaker 2: So almost immediately after they got bounced, I don't remember

534
00:26:50,839 --> 00:26:53,880
who had this, but there was this talk about all

535
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,680
the team is frustrating, frustrated about Towns and his defense

536
00:26:57,839 --> 00:27:01,759
and not understanding some of the teams and whatnot. Is

537
00:27:01,799 --> 00:27:05,119
that what you're baking into your I want to say

538
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:11,480
town skepticism, like just the is it strictly the defense

539
00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:12,359
or similar to it?

540
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: No, I think it's the offense for me too, it's

541
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,599
just like the defense is okay. Maybe a new coach

542
00:27:17,599 --> 00:27:19,920
won't play him and drop coverage as much. I don't

543
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,119
know if that's necessarily, Like how good is Karl Anthony

544
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:23,920
Town still is the center if he's not, Like, I

545
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,960
just don't I don't know what that looks like. So

546
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,200
I'd be skeptical of that for sure. But on offense,

547
00:27:29,319 --> 00:27:32,880
it's the aggression waxes and wanes to a point that

548
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,960
and even when he's aggressive, it's like, you can't really

549
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,079
he's not elevating the play of others around him. And

550
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,720
then if the vision really was five out his three

551
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:44,279
point volume, which was the lowest it's been since Tips

552
00:27:44,319 --> 00:27:48,000
was coaching the Timberwolves, is like that doesn't fly. And

553
00:27:48,039 --> 00:27:49,920
then it's is that a Karl Anthony Town's problem and

554
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,960
we have a track record of him not taking as

555
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,599
many threes as everyone would want throughout his career or

556
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,519
is that a Tips thing? But then even you look

557
00:27:57,559 --> 00:27:59,880
when he's aggressive, it's all right, like the live, dry

558
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,799
playmaking just isn't there. And I think the bigger issue

559
00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:08,880
is can you keep him aggressive and involved alongside another star?

560
00:28:09,279 --> 00:28:11,440
Because it felt like and you could say this about

561
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,680
og could say this about mchael Bridges, but they're not

562
00:28:13,799 --> 00:28:16,119
supposed to be what Karl Anthony Towns is. It just

563
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,240
feels like he fades into the background too often and

564
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,480
his aggression was most unlocked, and the data supports this

565
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,640
when you put him in lineups not just without Jalen Brunton,

566
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,480
but lineups that were basically devoid of any offensive alternatives,

567
00:28:30,519 --> 00:28:32,960
and so you have to do this and just like

568
00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:35,839
that's I guess good that he proved he could do that,

569
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,640
but it's alarming that it takes such extreme circumstances because

570
00:28:40,079 --> 00:28:42,039
is this someone who It makes you wonder unless everyone

571
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:45,880
around him is just an all NBA defense level player,

572
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,400
It's well, how does he fit into a larger ecosystem

573
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,000
where there's at least one other offensive superstar near him,

574
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,880
but also a guy in mckail Bridges who you would

575
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,559
expect more from and og kind of made some offensive improvements,

576
00:28:57,599 --> 00:29:00,319
especially during that time Jalen Brunton was out. And that's

577
00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:02,279
what I'm skeptical of is that I don't know how

578
00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:04,759
Kong Anthony Towns at both ends of the floor. I

579
00:29:04,759 --> 00:29:06,680
don't know if he impacts the game enough as part

580
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,440
of a larger ecosystem, and if you're trying to designe

581
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,200
everything around him, I mean defensively you wouldn't, but offensively

582
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,640
it's all right, Well that's I guess it could work.

583
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,240
But like if the idea is we just need to

584
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,319
stagger our two best players from one another as much

585
00:29:19,319 --> 00:29:22,759
as possible, that's like, this isn't Evan Mobley versus Jared Allen,

586
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:25,839
where there's just redundancies. It's no these two in theory

587
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,359
should compliment one another. But and look, it could be

588
00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:30,200
on Jaln Brunson a little bit as well, to where

589
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,880
it's is he better off with a pick and pop

590
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,359
big like Towns or it seems like he's more comfortable

591
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,400
working with the Mitchell Robinson type, where it's a really

592
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,799
hardscreen center who has that role man gravity. And you know,

593
00:29:42,839 --> 00:29:45,079
if you can combine Towns and Mitchell Robinson into one player,

594
00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:47,160
he might be great if you're the Knicks, but you can't.

595
00:29:47,319 --> 00:29:50,240
And so Jalen Brunson is the pole star who is

596
00:29:50,279 --> 00:29:52,039
going to determine everything for the Knicks, and I think

597
00:29:52,039 --> 00:29:54,359
that's something that they need to take into account when

598
00:29:54,359 --> 00:29:56,799
they're building out this next team. And maybe it's just

599
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,640
we expended so many assets here, we're invested in this core.

600
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,400
We see if a different coach could change it. I

601
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,160
really do believe, though, that there's a chance this wasn't

602
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,880
so much a necessary change as the easiest change that

603
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:09,480
they could make.

604
00:30:09,599 --> 00:30:10,359
Speaker 2: I think that's fair.

605
00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:14,799
Speaker 1: It's twenty twenty five NBA Finals primer time, the Oklahoma

606
00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:18,400
City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers, the matchup everybody and

607
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,400
their mother predicted at the start of the season. Of course,

608
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,759
although fifty percent of this matchup is everyone probably might

609
00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:28,119
may have had it penciled in. So let's start tactically more,

610
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,400
what's your biggest question on the court for this series?

611
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,559
You could start on whichever side of the fence you prefer.

612
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,119
Speaker 2: Well, so, Miles Turner for me is a question mark.

613
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,720
I love him first and foremost, I really do. I

614
00:30:41,759 --> 00:30:45,039
think he's he's improved so drastically over the past two

615
00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:48,839
seasons offensively, and that he needed to Like he was always,

616
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:51,839
you know, an elite shot blocker, someone who took up

617
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,720
a lot of space in the paint, even though he

618
00:30:53,839 --> 00:30:56,519
wasn't a great rebounder, and I felt like he needed

619
00:30:56,559 --> 00:31:01,519
to do something and he became this higher volume offensive player,

620
00:31:01,799 --> 00:31:03,400
and I think that kind of bridged this game a

621
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,480
whole lot. Now I'm kind of wondering, can he really

622
00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:10,079
get away with a lot of those sci shots that

623
00:31:10,119 --> 00:31:12,680
he's getting. Is he going to be like exclusively a

624
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,319
four space floor spacer in this series? Because you're going

625
00:31:16,359 --> 00:31:18,440
up against Issa a Hard and Stein and chit Holmper.

626
00:31:18,519 --> 00:31:20,359
That's a lot of length, that's a lot of grit,

627
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,200
that's a lot of size. So, Miles Turner, if he's

628
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,440
going to be effective in this series, which you know,

629
00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:28,759
we're all hoping he will be because that is going

630
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:32,359
to mean a better product for all of us, how like,

631
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,440
what is the game plan to get him involved to

632
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,880
a higher extent where you can see, you know, him

633
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,400
being optimized offensively.

634
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting and I think I would wonder and

635
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,720
I would at least try it if Oklahoma City goes

636
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,279
to these smaller lineups and he finds like smaller players

637
00:31:51,319 --> 00:31:53,839
on him in those smaller lineups, more he's gotten better

638
00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:56,200
at punishing those mismatches. Yeah, Like even kind of from

639
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,079
the outside interf he's working on the block. I'm not

640
00:31:58,119 --> 00:32:00,559
saying you funnel the entire offense through him, but if

641
00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:03,079
that's the look Oklahoma City goes with I think he

642
00:32:03,119 --> 00:32:05,359
could actually capitalize on it. And that's kind of why

643
00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:06,839
I wondered, like one of the things that I have

644
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,759
bullet pointed here is it almost just like this might

645
00:32:09,839 --> 00:32:13,000
just be a dual big series from Okay see more

646
00:32:13,039 --> 00:32:15,480
so than it was even like at points in Minnesota.

647
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,359
Just to kind of not derail that thing specifically. But

648
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,920
you have Turner and you have Siakham and maybe you're

649
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,279
kind of saving the smaller lineups for like the Obi

650
00:32:24,359 --> 00:32:25,799
Top in minutes or if they you know, if the

651
00:32:25,799 --> 00:32:27,960
Pacers are rolling out Thomas Bryant.

652
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be nice. That'd be very nice to

653
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,359
see it. And that's like, I just think he's a

654
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,440
necessity at this point. We can talk about Allie, we

655
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:42,400
can talk about Pascal. I just think you need production from,

656
00:32:42,519 --> 00:32:45,039
you know, one of your main stays, because if he's

657
00:32:45,079 --> 00:32:47,960
not going to produce, who are you going to funnel

658
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,519
those shots too? Are you going to try to stretch

659
00:32:51,559 --> 00:32:55,359
out Benedic Mathrin Because I have a sneaky suspicion that's

660
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,839
not going to work out well for the Pacers if

661
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,160
you force him to play it, you know, in a

662
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,960
higher volume pace than he's accustomed to and then honestly

663
00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:08,920
in connection with the Miles Turner stuff, and this is

664
00:33:09,039 --> 00:33:14,160
like probably a bigger question. We've talked about Haliburton a

665
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,119
lot on this program, and we I think this was

666
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,359
back in November, late November, perhaps you and I started

667
00:33:22,359 --> 00:33:26,000
talking about, like what kind of player is he this year?

668
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,640
Because last year he was like at the twenty six

669
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,119
and twelve before he started getting injured, and then he

670
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,839
kind of settled in like eighteen and nine, and we

671
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,960
started wondering was this just the new norm? Like is

672
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,039
he going to be a guy who actually chases big numbers?

673
00:33:39,079 --> 00:33:43,599
Like what is he like where statistically is what is

674
00:33:43,599 --> 00:33:47,279
his like wheelhouse? Now we kind of figure it out.

675
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,400
He's one of those guys who isn't really worried about

676
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,039
the numbers. He's not worried about going out and taking

677
00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:56,759
twenty shots. He'll be just fine scoring eight points if

678
00:33:56,759 --> 00:34:00,240
they win by ten. He's not that dude. But I'm

679
00:34:00,279 --> 00:34:04,640
wondering in these finals if he can allow himself to

680
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:05,319
think that way.

681
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he's become really good at reading the

682
00:34:10,599 --> 00:34:13,760
game and understanding when it needs to be either a

683
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,639
night or if it's a moment where he's gonna have

684
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,519
to do more. And I think Game six against the

685
00:34:17,559 --> 00:34:20,079
Knicks kind of prove that where it was he's having

686
00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:22,519
a relatively quiet night and then he just goes in

687
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:25,559
and you know, floater floaters them to death in the

688
00:34:25,559 --> 00:34:28,719
fourth quarter. Essentially that bodes well, but you're facing a

689
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,039
different type of pressure than you did. You know, we

690
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:34,079
had what was that Game five where the Knicks really

691
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,519
just like up to the pressure on him. That's not

692
00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:38,800
even like a taste of what Okac is gonna throw

693
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,920
at him. And so like that kind of leads into

694
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:42,800
one of the big things I'm thinking about with this

695
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,679
series is you have these teams where they they were

696
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,880
two of the fastest teams when it came to running

697
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,679
their offense after a make by the other team. And

698
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,519
so I'm just gonna be so interested to see sort

699
00:34:55,559 --> 00:34:58,079
of the chess match going on here where it's India's

700
00:34:58,159 --> 00:35:02,159
special because this offense is unpredictable, even in the half court.

701
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,000
It's free flowing and they don't turn the ball over

702
00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:10,159
a ton going up against OKC, which not only were

703
00:35:10,199 --> 00:35:12,920
they first in like the percentage of plays they forced

704
00:35:13,119 --> 00:35:16,800
turnovers on against their opponents, they've actually upped that turnover

705
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,000
percentage in the playoffs. Now you juxtapose that against Indy though,

706
00:35:21,079 --> 00:35:23,280
and what they've done a really good job of And

707
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,480
they don't do it as I would say, unrelentingly as

708
00:35:26,519 --> 00:35:30,119
Oklahoma City, but they can bring like the full court pressure,

709
00:35:30,199 --> 00:35:32,639
that intense ball pressure as well. That's like that might

710
00:35:32,639 --> 00:35:34,880
actually be the biggest reason why the Knicks felt like

711
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,320
they never stood a chance against the Pacers, like after

712
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:42,599
Game one. And can they do that consistently against Oklahoma City?

713
00:35:42,639 --> 00:35:44,760
And is there one of these teams that break from

714
00:35:45,079 --> 00:35:47,960
you know, they're not high turnover teams. Does that change

715
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,519
going up against either of these defenses? And I think

716
00:35:50,519 --> 00:35:52,280
if you had to predict, you're saying, well, the Pacers

717
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,800
are kind of in for a root awakening because of

718
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,960
how generational the Thunders defense is. But just there's I

719
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,559
don't want to say these two teams are just stylistically similar,

720
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,400
but defensively, like the way that they can defend, the

721
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,119
pressure they bring, there are some similarities. And then the

722
00:36:08,119 --> 00:36:11,119
fact that they both like to play faster on the

723
00:36:11,119 --> 00:36:13,519
offensive end when they can, there's sort of some more

724
00:36:13,519 --> 00:36:15,400
overlap there, and so it makes for just sort of

725
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,079
this interesting chess match of what does it actually come

726
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:22,239
down to. Is it to the team that actually defends better,

727
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:23,920
or is it the team that figures out a way

728
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,119
to really catch the other side off guard? After me

729
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,079
to where it's I mean, like that's the Pacers killed

730
00:36:30,119 --> 00:36:32,159
the Knicks. It was the Knicks defender the Pacers in

731
00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:33,679
Game six like it was the first time they ever

732
00:36:33,679 --> 00:36:37,079
played the Pacers. Whereas all those leakouts after makes those

733
00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:39,400
are not going to happen against Oklahoma City. So I'm

734
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,360
just I'm sort of fascinated to see how those two

735
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,199
styles where again where it feels like there are some similarities,

736
00:36:44,519 --> 00:36:46,199
what happens when they clash?

737
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,519
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, And look, that is what we're all looking

738
00:36:49,519 --> 00:36:53,679
forward to. I've said it since both teams made it

739
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,880
to the finals. This is going to be basketball porn.

740
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,840
I'm very much looking forward to the day to day changes,

741
00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:04,760
the adjustments, how they're gonna stylistically change from one game

742
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,280
to another. Tactically. This is gonna be a good one.

743
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,440
I'm very much looking forward to it. Should we stick

744
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,639
with one team before pivoting to the other, or do

745
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,559
we just go mixed match and just bring up whatever

746
00:37:18,119 --> 00:37:18,280
is this?

747
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: Are you still on the tactical side.

748
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,079
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I think we will be for a while, yes.

749
00:37:24,119 --> 00:37:25,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's something else out at me.

750
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 2: All right, So this is actually something I just was

751
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,199
thinking about when you said, you know how Miles Turner

752
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,159
has been better in the post and basically abusing smaller players,

753
00:37:35,559 --> 00:37:40,880
And I was starting to think technically Chet is a

754
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,800
smaller player just in terms of, like he's still pretty skinny.

755
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,800
He doesn't have that strength on him when Hartenstein is

756
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,280
off the floor and Cheed is in. Could that be

757
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:59,119
sort of an underrated matchup? Like would you dare not

758
00:37:59,159 --> 00:38:02,079
necessarily funnel shots to war smile turn like he has

759
00:38:02,119 --> 00:38:04,840
to be in move but like he's getting like he's been.

760
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,679
He was also skinny when he came in, but he's

761
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,280
added muscles, he's added strength. Could he be able to

762
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,599
finish place against Chet or maybe even draw a couple

763
00:38:13,599 --> 00:38:16,559
of foles on him. That's because that would change the

764
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:17,880
course of an entire game.

765
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's also kind of led me to wonder,

766
00:38:21,559 --> 00:38:24,159
do you not put Chet on Miles Turner for that reason?

767
00:38:24,199 --> 00:38:26,159
And it's I don't know that you necessarily want him.

768
00:38:26,199 --> 00:38:29,440
I think you want Hartenstein on Siakam just for like

769
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,920
the extra physicality there, But like with Chet, it's could

770
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,159
it make more sense to I mean, like the thing

771
00:38:36,159 --> 00:38:39,559
about the Pacers is there's not a there's not a

772
00:38:39,639 --> 00:38:41,559
lou Dort on their team to where it's, oh, we're

773
00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:44,599
gonna stick you on lou Dort and then you can roam.

774
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,000
At the same time, it's do you gamble and say, well,

775
00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:50,719
go guard Andrew Nemahart and do that, or maybe you

776
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,960
try to get away with it with Aernie Smith. Is

777
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,119
it something you exclusively like in some of the you know,

778
00:38:56,159 --> 00:38:58,079
the bench units for the Pacers, where you know, if

779
00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:01,000
that's Ben Sheppard, then you know, gets to be easier

780
00:39:01,079 --> 00:39:02,480
to go that way, or even if it's better Nic

781
00:39:02,519 --> 00:39:05,199
Mathrin for that matter, because I've been curious, I'm the

782
00:39:05,199 --> 00:39:07,119
foul troubles an interesting element of it. I think will

783
00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:09,800
probably see Chet on Turner, but I'm also kind of

784
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,079
wondering if we do see Chet kind of oh they

785
00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:13,599
want him to just sort of muck up stuff, do

786
00:39:13,639 --> 00:39:15,119
a lot of a ton on the back line, and

787
00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:17,320
if Turner's going to space the floor, you put him

788
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,400
on a smaller player. Pick your poison there, whether it's

789
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,679
Niece Smith or Nemhart and go that route.

790
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 2: But it is interesting that the one position where okay

791
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,400
See doesn't necessarily have i want to say, a ton

792
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,920
of depth. And it's not a problem because this is

793
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,119
a team that one sixty eight games. They have players

794
00:39:36,119 --> 00:39:38,400
who can just kind of pluck into that spot, but

795
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,599
they don't really have traditional force in many ways, and

796
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,920
the Pacers have two of those who are both offensively

797
00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:50,360
very dynamic. So you either have to guard up like

798
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,960
taking a couple of wings and like throwing them into

799
00:39:53,159 --> 00:39:56,440
a you know, against those fours, or you have to

800
00:39:56,519 --> 00:39:59,800
like ask Chet to play down so there could be

801
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,039
a speed advantage offensively for the Pacers at that spot.

802
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,960
Like but this it almost feels dumb to like bring

803
00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:10,320
up the bench or like one position, Oh, can Pascal

804
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,480
Siakin Pascal Siak him an Obi top and can they

805
00:40:14,519 --> 00:40:18,280
turn this series? Because you're still looking at a thunderd

806
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,800
team that is like perversely well rounded.

807
00:40:21,519 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 1: And that's you know, So one of my other questions

808
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,360
here would be we saw Indy's bench struggle at points

809
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,639
during that Knick series, and I'm just wondering to where

810
00:40:31,639 --> 00:40:34,960
it's you know, your defense struggles with siakam off the

811
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,079
floor you know your offense is going to struggle with

812
00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:40,599
Tyre's Haliburton on the floor, what do those secondary lineups

813
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,360
look like against? I would say it's more concerning from

814
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:48,559
INDI's offensive perspective, with Tyre's Haliburton off the court, what

815
00:40:48,679 --> 00:40:51,800
do you look like in those secondary lineups against Okac's defense?

816
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,480
Because spoiler alert more Okayse's defense is going to be

817
00:40:55,519 --> 00:40:58,039
a little bit better than New York's defense. My bold perish,

818
00:40:58,559 --> 00:41:01,840
I yeah, that is bold. It's a good question.

819
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,039
Speaker 2: I mean, you you got a stacker as well as

820
00:41:04,039 --> 00:41:06,119
you can, I think in this series. But you also

821
00:41:06,159 --> 00:41:09,079
don't want to throw helper or see how come into

822
00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:11,840
lineups they haven't had any experience with. So it's it's

823
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,679
gonna be a tough dance, uh for Rick Kyle Ile

824
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,920
I think and like even if you if you if

825
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,360
you get the best version of t J. McConnell, who

826
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,280
I love, by the way, it's it's this isn't me

827
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,519
trying to trash him, like, but even if you get

828
00:41:24,559 --> 00:41:29,000
the best version of him, Like, what is that? Like?

829
00:41:29,159 --> 00:41:33,039
Speaker 1: Is that is that the thunder being able to leave

830
00:41:33,119 --> 00:41:35,239
t J McConnell and it helps that Okay, he'll have

831
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:36,719
the ball in his hands a ton, so it's like

832
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,760
you can't really like leave him, leave him necessarily, but no, but.

833
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,639
Speaker 2: Yeah he's gonna put up like a nine foot jumper.

834
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,760
Oh no, that's that's gonna beat us. So like you

835
00:41:48,039 --> 00:41:52,199
have to find ways to like exclusively blade to your

836
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,559
strengths for each player, like Benedict Mathern, you should have

837
00:41:55,639 --> 00:41:57,920
like one purpose in this series, and that is, whenever

838
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,159
he has the ball, just draw files whatever you can do.

839
00:42:02,079 --> 00:42:06,440
Take the word of foul, merchant, overshape, taking it away

840
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,519
from him, just get to the foul line. He's not

841
00:42:08,599 --> 00:42:11,159
that pretty well this postseason. By the way, for free

842
00:42:11,159 --> 00:42:14,320
frowin simps per game in sixteen sixteen minutes.

843
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,159
Speaker 1: He also you mentioned it sort of jest, but he

844
00:42:17,199 --> 00:42:19,079
actually might be a big deal when you're talking about

845
00:42:19,079 --> 00:42:21,719
those secondary lineups or even primary lineups as a fifth

846
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,320
member where if you need to go at okay C's

847
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,719
defense and like Pascal Siakam and Tyre's Halbert and like

848
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:30,800
it's just not working, you're going to need that third

849
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,320
type of creator. And I think, yeah, you default to

850
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,440
Andrew Nemhard, but just getting Mathriine with someone who is

851
00:42:37,639 --> 00:42:41,480
more accustomed or more enthusiastic about contact and just bigger

852
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,400
as well. He could be sneaky big for them in

853
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:44,960
this series.

854
00:42:45,639 --> 00:42:47,679
Speaker 2: No, I was serious, but like you have to stream

855
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,960
streamline his role. The thing is, I don't want Benetic

856
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,960
Mathron out there drippling eight times between his legs and

857
00:42:56,119 --> 00:42:58,280
just trying to you know, think I'm on that.

858
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:03,079
Speaker 1: God, Yeah, I mean sorry, I was gonna say. That

859
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,119
does bring up another question now, where it's so going

860
00:43:06,159 --> 00:43:08,079
back and looking at and I know, I don't think

861
00:43:08,159 --> 00:43:11,000
check played in either of the games against the Pacers

862
00:43:11,039 --> 00:43:13,280
this year, but he's like Oklahoma City's defense did a

863
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,199
good job during the regular season of getting the ball

864
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,119
out of Tyre's Haliburton's hands. And so who do you

865
00:43:18,159 --> 00:43:20,800
trust the most to go up against that pressure of

866
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,960
Tyre's Haliburton has to be displaced from the ball? Is

867
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,280
it nem Hard or you know, is it Matherin, Is

868
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,239
it McConnell, Like, who are you trusting the most in.

869
00:43:27,199 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 2: That hard in the playoffs?

870
00:43:30,039 --> 00:43:30,079
Speaker 1: It?

871
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 2: And it's so his contrast, he's the weirdest player, right.

872
00:43:34,639 --> 00:43:37,880
This is two years in a row where his offensive

873
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:42,760
production or just generally production has been worlds ahead in

874
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,320
the postseason and the regular season. Is he just a

875
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,760
lazy regular season player? Is that we can sum up lazy? Yeah,

876
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,599
that's what that's flying season.

877
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 1: I think if he was healthy this year, he reply

878
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,039
would have made all defense. So I don't want to

879
00:43:56,039 --> 00:43:58,159
say he's lazy, but he might have that Jimmy Butler

880
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,639
Jean where he can just pack the offensive apparently.

881
00:44:01,199 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 2: Look, when I say lazy, it's within NBA context, because

882
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,960
no NBA player is lazy. But no, it's just it's

883
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,079
so funny that he just steps up every single time

884
00:44:11,079 --> 00:44:12,599
in the playoffs, and like when it comes to the

885
00:44:12,599 --> 00:44:15,840
regular season, he's just oh, humming awayte kind of love

886
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,239
the approach. He's just kind of saying, you know what,

887
00:44:18,679 --> 00:44:20,320
I don't need to get up for this game against

888
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,840
the Hornets. Doesn't matter. Like I'm good, I'm fine. Let

889
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:25,960
me just let me just get ready for round one.

890
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,840
But he's definitely the person I would trust the most

891
00:44:30,159 --> 00:44:32,519
when the ball is forced out of Halley's hands, at

892
00:44:32,559 --> 00:44:35,559
least from a promoter player. If the ball is like

893
00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:40,679
forced inside, yeah it's Siakam. I feel pretty confident Witham

894
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:41,480
on the ball as well.

895
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: What do you make of sort of the primary like

896
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,199
like star versus defender lineups. Let's start with Shay. Who

897
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,800
are you trusting? I know it's been mostly Nemhard this year.

898
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,440
I believe I would have advocated for Aroni Smith actually,

899
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,719
but now he's dealing with that ankle things. When wondering

900
00:44:56,559 --> 00:44:59,079
if it can't even be him.

901
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,280
Speaker 2: I mean, look this, this is gonna sound cliche, but

902
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,679
you can't defend a guy like that with one guy

903
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,679
like you. It has to be a revolving door of

904
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,559
different players. It's a shame that jars Walker is going

905
00:45:10,599 --> 00:45:14,400
to miss the first two games as well. He's i think,

906
00:45:14,679 --> 00:45:17,760
really improved defensively this year. I would have loved to

907
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,559
see him with like his big frame, and he's quick

908
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:23,079
on his feet too. That would have been fun to

909
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:26,239
see on Shay. I know he's a bench guy who

910
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,760
doesn't play a lot, especially in the playoffs, but in

911
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,960
those few minutes he'd be out there, I would have

912
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,559
tried it out, just for a couple of possessions to

913
00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:38,559
see what happened there. But no, you know, Nemhardi is

914
00:45:38,679 --> 00:45:41,320
one Nie Smith. I'm glad you brought him up. I

915
00:45:41,599 --> 00:45:44,519
think that's a perfect and reasonable player to put on him.

916
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,239
Even TJ who's sort of small but like he'll get

917
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,880
in his grill. It's on, He's not afraid. Ben Shephard

918
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,320
might also be the unsung hero here. I think he's

919
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,840
more physical than we give him credit for. I think

920
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,800
there are some defensive chops there as well. So like,

921
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:06,159
Shay has to see a whole bunch of different bodies

922
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:09,000
and it just doesn't have to be like one or

923
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,239
two guys. You have to keep rotating so many different

924
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:13,840
looks on him.

925
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: Who do you expect to see, Let's say so after

926
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:23,400
lou Dort, who spends the most time on Tyres Halberton Caruso.

927
00:46:26,159 --> 00:46:29,400
That probably makes sense. I could see like it'd be

928
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,159
I hope we see Shay on him, just because I

929
00:46:31,159 --> 00:46:34,079
love this star for star matchupson Team started playing around those.

930
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,920
I was wondering if it could be j Dubb, But

931
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,880
maybe J Dub is like, oh, like we see him

932
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,280
guarding Myles Turner more and like the Thunders get like

933
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,239
really weird. So Caruso's probably maybe Kason Wallace, though they

934
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:45,840
have a whole bunch of.

935
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 2: Different all of them again, but I think Caruso is

936
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,039
gonna be like when if if you find yourself in

937
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:56,760
a tough game, like close game laden the fourth. If

938
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,880
I'm mark the ignoaled, I'm I'm going to Alex and

939
00:47:00,039 --> 00:47:02,719
I'm just gonna say, lock him up, go get him.

940
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:08,280
That's it. Like, here's the thing. Caruso is their best defender.

941
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,000
Like that's just he is. He didn't play a whole

942
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,039
lot because he didn't need to play a whole lot.

943
00:47:14,119 --> 00:47:16,119
He played less than twenty minutes per game this year.

944
00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:19,880
He was just chilling and they were waiting for this opportunity.

945
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:25,639
Now he's healthy in the finals, you think they're gonna like, hey,

946
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:30,360
go guard Aaron NEI Smith. Fuck no, Like you can

947
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:35,159
play him against virtually everyone and he'll be successful in

948
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,440
degrees of course, because like if you go up against

949
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,719
Myles Turner, he'll get a couple of buckets on him

950
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,719
for sure. But he can guard effectively one through four.

951
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,159
Speaker 1: He got I mean, he can guard one through five.

952
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,039
I'm just like Alex Caruso guarding big man. Is that's

953
00:47:50,079 --> 00:47:51,480
the thing. Now, I'll say he can guard one.

954
00:47:51,519 --> 00:47:53,679
Speaker 2: It is. But like, okay, all right, all right, but

955
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:55,800
like imagine if this was the Spurs, would you trust

956
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:56,480
him on Wemby?

957
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,079
Speaker 1: Really? But you know what, more, this isn't the Spurs

958
00:48:00,159 --> 00:48:00,519
all right?

959
00:48:00,559 --> 00:48:03,119
Speaker 2: Fair enough? All right, well you copped out on that one,

960
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,599
but that at the end of the day, you got

961
00:48:06,639 --> 00:48:08,760
to cut the head off the snake, you really do.

962
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,719
And that's Tyree's Halberton. He's still the main driver on

963
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,559
this whole thing, this old team, this whole offense, everything.

964
00:48:14,599 --> 00:48:19,760
He's like the main hub So type game five minutes ago.

965
00:48:20,519 --> 00:48:23,639
Do you bet you're sweet ass? I'm telling Alice Caruso

966
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,840
kill him.

967
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 1: Do you worry about when you're just looking at the

968
00:48:30,679 --> 00:48:35,239
thunder defense in totality? Aside from Tyrese Haliburton, Like, do

969
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,800
you worry about the Pacers losing their like kind of

970
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,800
ball control plot? Or they've been so good at valuing

971
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,880
possessions over all this entire year. And I think Pasco

972
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,360
Siakam's a good one. It's just like his I get

973
00:48:48,559 --> 00:48:51,320
we're he's not nervous, but I get skeptical whenever he's

974
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,039
like attacking off the dribble and spinning because it doesn't

975
00:48:54,039 --> 00:48:56,119
feel like he has the tightest handle, and like going

976
00:48:56,199 --> 00:48:58,599
up against some of these other defenses one thing, but

977
00:48:58,639 --> 00:49:01,280
you go up against oh, Oklahoma City's defense, and I'm

978
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,519
just like, oh, I feel like that's the player I

979
00:49:03,519 --> 00:49:05,360
look at, just because he will be so heavily featured

980
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,760
where I could see him having some high turnover games

981
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,199
where there's just these like four and five point swings

982
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,280
because you give up an opportunity to score at the

983
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,360
basket at one end, and then Oklahoma City's hitting a

984
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,559
three or getting a bucket in transition at the other end.

985
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 2: You know what be a high turnover game for Pascal

986
00:49:21,519 --> 00:49:25,320
Siakam two two, that's a high turnover game for him.

987
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna take that. I'm gonna take the over.

988
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:28,960
I think he's gonna have a game where he has

989
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,280
at least four turnovers because that is.

990
00:49:31,599 --> 00:49:36,199
Speaker 2: Not a single player, not a single player on Indiana's roster,

991
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,760
who in the regular season or in these playoffs are

992
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:45,280
averaging or even cracking two turnovers per game. Not one.

993
00:49:46,599 --> 00:49:48,519
Speaker 1: That's awesome. I'm asking if you think that holds up

994
00:49:48,519 --> 00:49:49,599
in the context versus.

995
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,559
Speaker 2: All well, I mean again to a degree, right, Like,

996
00:49:51,679 --> 00:49:55,119
do I think that this defense specifically is tailored to

997
00:49:55,159 --> 00:49:57,880
four curtain overs? Absolutely? Do I think we're going to

998
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,480
see an increase in turnovers for Indiana? Absolutely? Do I

999
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,960
think we're gonna see them turn into you know, a

1000
00:50:04,159 --> 00:50:07,679
high turnover team all things considered. No, No, I think

1001
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,719
it's gonna be high for them, like in context of

1002
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,880
how they are. But I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh,

1003
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,320
their turnovers are gonna jump like thirteen and per game

1004
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,880
to like eighteen. I think I like, I think they're

1005
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:23,280
just too well oiled a machine to They do the

1006
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:27,000
film work. They know what's coming, like, they understand the

1007
00:50:27,039 --> 00:50:29,280
passing lanes that everyone is playing. They know the kaison

1008
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,320
Wallace is like an athletic freak who is just gonna

1009
00:50:32,599 --> 00:50:36,280
rip the ball away at the oddest times. They're seeing

1010
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,800
these things, so I think their preparation level is gonna

1011
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,400
be ready to absorb something. They're gonna go in. This

1012
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,079
is gonna be a boxing match, right, They're gonna go

1013
00:50:46,159 --> 00:50:48,639
in there. They know they're gonna take a hit. They're

1014
00:50:48,679 --> 00:50:52,440
gonna probably take a couple. It's just a matter of

1015
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,159
you know, what are we willing to do here to respond?

1016
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,599
And I just I'm not nervous about the turnovers until

1017
00:51:00,639 --> 00:51:02,400
it's legit problem.

1018
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,119
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else here? On the tactical side.

1019
00:51:07,039 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 2: Make shots. That's kind of important too for both sides.

1020
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,239
The score points.

1021
00:51:12,559 --> 00:51:14,679
Speaker 1: I would ask who tightens up their rotation more, Rick

1022
00:51:14,679 --> 00:51:16,599
Carlisle or Mark Dagnolt.

1023
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 2: Neither.

1024
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: I think it'll be Carlisle. I think we kind of

1025
00:51:22,039 --> 00:51:23,719
saw a button up kind of towards the end of

1026
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:25,360
the next series. And like I said, with some of

1027
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,440
the bench you struggling against the Knicks, I wonder if

1028
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,360
that will be the impetus for tightening it up a

1029
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:29,840
little bit more.

1030
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 2: Again, well, I mean again it depends because if you're

1031
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,880
met by dept I would have to assume the best

1032
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:40,880
response is matching that debt. So I mean, you might

1033
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:44,400
be right. But I think one of their main strengths

1034
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,079
here for both teams is they can go to all

1035
00:51:47,119 --> 00:51:50,119
those those players. Like I will say, his rotation is

1036
00:51:50,159 --> 00:51:53,199
going to be shortened Carlos. That is by default because

1037
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,239
Teris Walker is not going to play the first two games,

1038
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,880
So that's one piece off the table. It's going to

1039
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:02,960
be interesting. Maybe he stretches Ben Shippard a little bit more.

1040
00:52:03,119 --> 00:52:06,679
Speaker 1: What's your biggest storyline for this series? Is it former

1041
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,079
Nick Nick's about to win the title? You have a

1042
00:52:09,199 --> 00:52:11,719
Isaiah Harder sign or will be top it that's mine?

1043
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,599
Speaker 2: Uh?

1044
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: Or do you want to rehash the dolmntes a bonus

1045
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,599
trade or the no Paul George trade tree. This is

1046
00:52:19,599 --> 00:52:22,199
what I think of the Paul George trade tree NBA Finals.

1047
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 2: It's funny, right because we didn't talk about this podcast specifically,

1048
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,320
not in great detail before we started recording, so I

1049
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,840
didn't know which topics we were going to bring up.

1050
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,039
Storyline is not something I thought about a great deal

1051
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,360
like I but I will, you know what, I'm just

1052
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,400
gonna pluck some of my own shit and turn that

1053
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:45,599
into a storyline. The way these teams were constructed were

1054
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,159
because I've written two articles about obviously about each team,

1055
00:52:49,199 --> 00:52:52,880
how they constructed, which trades were happening, and like how

1056
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:57,599
they got there. And this is just another example of

1057
00:52:57,639 --> 00:52:59,880
how crucial it is to have people in the front

1058
00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:04,079
office who understand how to do shit right. And is

1059
00:53:04,119 --> 00:53:06,880
that a storyline only for us super geeks who are

1060
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,599
interested in that in that kind of stuff, but I

1061
00:53:09,639 --> 00:53:13,480
do think is relevant. These are teams that didn't panic,

1062
00:53:13,639 --> 00:53:19,159
who prioritize multiple bites of the apple, who did trades

1063
00:53:19,199 --> 00:53:22,280
at the exactly right time to optimize the return and

1064
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,760
not relinquish too much. Like these are two teams that

1065
00:53:26,119 --> 00:53:30,199
just knows how to do business off the court, and

1066
00:53:30,599 --> 00:53:33,400
as a direct result, they're facing off against each other

1067
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,960
in the finals. Is that a storyline Maybe not, but

1068
00:53:36,039 --> 00:53:40,760
it's something I find extremely fascinating, And for week front

1069
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,039
office teams or just general week teams out there, I

1070
00:53:44,079 --> 00:53:46,360
think they should take a serious look at both these

1071
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:50,199
franchises and realize, oh, we have to look inwards. We

1072
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:54,000
might have to start doing things differently, because these guys

1073
00:53:54,039 --> 00:53:57,639
are turning every single page, They're looking under every rock

1074
00:53:57,719 --> 00:53:59,440
for something and they're finding it.

1075
00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's interesting that they both they found

1076
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,920
there like the person who could direct their entire offensive ceiling,

1077
00:54:08,639 --> 00:54:10,239
and then they sort of worked their way back from

1078
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,039
there and they didn't take any bigger swings and Oka see,

1079
00:54:13,119 --> 00:54:14,719
not like it made a ton of trades, but like

1080
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,039
you waited on signing Isa Hartenstein before you let this

1081
00:54:17,079 --> 00:54:19,519
group go through the playoffs last year with Shay at

1082
00:54:19,519 --> 00:54:22,760
the Helm, the Pacers like the Pascal Siakam trading incredibly

1083
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,880
aggressive by their like historical standards, but not something you

1084
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:28,559
do until you know that you have the guy and

1085
00:54:28,599 --> 00:54:31,159
tires Haliburt, you were still trying to, you know, shuffle

1086
00:54:31,199 --> 00:54:33,599
around your roster to get him when you made that

1087
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,920
domas a bonus trade. I also think, look, it is

1088
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,719
kind of interesting that for all the value the draft

1089
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:43,760
has played for both teams, especially OKCE, but like their

1090
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:47,159
most valuable players, like like the I think you could

1091
00:54:47,199 --> 00:54:49,599
argue the three most valuable players in this series were

1092
00:54:49,599 --> 00:54:52,480
not acquired via the draft, and Haliburt and Siakam and

1093
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,159
shake gilg just Alexander and so you could quibble over

1094
00:54:55,199 --> 00:54:58,079
as j dub or Chet more important than Siakam. Sure

1095
00:54:58,079 --> 00:55:00,519
we can have that discussion, but that does show the

1096
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:04,800
importance of not just making trades. But like when you

1097
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,239
talk about sort of small market teams and I think

1098
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,320
I don't It's not that I want to eliminate Okay

1099
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,159
see from this discussion, but they just operate on this

1100
00:55:12,199 --> 00:55:14,360
different level. Sam Prest, he's been with that organization for

1101
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,360
like twenty something years whatever it is. So Indiana just

1102
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,239
like proving that, hey, like that's a team that goes

1103
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,239
in there gets Pascal Siakam when he's on his way

1104
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,360
to free agency. And look, the thunder were there to

1105
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,880
an extent too with that Paul George trade, which set

1106
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:28,719
them up with the team that they It's like you

1107
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,559
trace Paul George that trade back to Shay and j

1108
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:35,400
dub so like I like, and I've brought this up

1109
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:36,960
a lot. I brought it up when the Cavs went

1110
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:38,639
out and traded for Don eventual, even though they weren't

1111
00:55:38,639 --> 00:55:42,119
considered a primary team. I root for those types of

1112
00:55:42,159 --> 00:55:44,480
teams going for it. And it's not just I'm not

1113
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,079
your small market versus flagship market type deal. I'm just

1114
00:55:48,119 --> 00:55:51,519
looking at it as you want to see teams that

1115
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:56,000
some people believe are at a team building disadvantage because

1116
00:55:56,039 --> 00:55:58,840
the market they're in take these swings and prove that

1117
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:01,599
they could build something not only that is so high

1118
00:56:01,679 --> 00:56:04,360
end they make the finals, but something that is sustainable,

1119
00:56:04,519 --> 00:56:06,599
that this feels right, that this feels like it won't

1120
00:56:06,639 --> 00:56:08,239
be the last time they'll be here. And so I

1121
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,599
do think that is kind of a big storyline of

1122
00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:13,000
the series between these two teams. And it's also look

1123
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,039
one of the storylines. I don't like getting into this.

1124
00:56:15,079 --> 00:56:17,239
I'm not I'm not getting into the league office upset

1125
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,440
that's OKAC versus Indiana. This is kind of referendum on

1126
00:56:21,639 --> 00:56:25,360
like how we package the product that the NBA is selling,

1127
00:56:25,519 --> 00:56:28,599
and that's these are you've called this basketball porn. You're

1128
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,960
this this series can end in an OKAYC sweep and

1129
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,280
it might still be entertaining as help if you only

1130
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,039
look at the series score, that will do it a disservice.

1131
00:56:36,079 --> 00:56:38,079
But if that's what we're talking about, if we're focused

1132
00:56:38,159 --> 00:56:41,960
on was SGA, the real MVP is Tyres Aliburton, an

1133
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:46,159
actual superstar, so on and so forth, like it's doing

1134
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,719
a disservice to the like what we're seeing from these

1135
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,079
two teams, because you can't lean on just the traditional

1136
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,039
big names. And i mean, like Shay is like I'm

1137
00:56:55,039 --> 00:56:56,920
not a big face of the face of the league

1138
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:58,800
with like Shay is a face of the league type,

1139
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,199
that's how good he is. And so you can lean

1140
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:03,760
on that to a little bit if talking heads and

1141
00:57:04,119 --> 00:57:07,320
podcasters and writers and whatever want to have that discussion.

1142
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,400
But this will be like, this is a series about

1143
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:14,400
basketball where there's no one headed towards free agency. There's

1144
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,880
no team that needs to make this big ass trade

1145
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,639
when if they end up losing in the finals. And

1146
00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:22,559
I'm sure some people will advocate for it. This is

1147
00:57:22,599 --> 00:57:26,440
a series about basketball, and I'm very interested to see

1148
00:57:26,519 --> 00:57:29,920
and I'm hopeful that it will be made mostly about basketball.

1149
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:31,440
I will now do my damn just to make sure

1150
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,960
it's not, and I will begin wondering if the Pacers

1151
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,000
lose in like five games, whether Tyres Alberton requests a trade.

1152
00:57:38,079 --> 00:57:40,199
I think that'll be the next few podcasts that I record.

1153
00:57:41,159 --> 00:57:48,079
Speaker 2: So you said in regards to people basically insinuating that

1154
00:57:48,119 --> 00:57:52,079
the league office are pissed at this series. I've spoken

1155
00:57:52,119 --> 00:57:56,440
a great deal with Mark Tatum, Deputy Commission of the League,

1156
00:57:57,719 --> 00:58:00,880
just about the state of the league, about parody, because

1157
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,639
that's a question that keeps coming up, like are you guys,

1158
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:06,440
is that this what you're looking at? Do you want

1159
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:12,119
like the revolving dwarf of champions? And he's just underlined

1160
00:58:12,119 --> 00:58:14,800
this to me again and again and again. Yes, we

1161
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:19,440
want the unpredictability. We want everyone to get the feeling

1162
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:21,800
that every single team in the NBA can win it

1163
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:26,400
every given the year. So I think the big market narrative,

1164
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:30,679
the big market conspiracies that some people have their tinfoil

1165
00:58:30,719 --> 00:58:34,480
hats on about is becoming a little bit of a

1166
00:58:34,519 --> 00:58:40,519
bullshit factor. I had Howard Beck on my Danish podcast

1167
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:44,239
a couple of weeks ago, and we're talking about the

1168
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,199
NBA at large. We're talking about like NP conspiracy theories

1169
00:58:47,199 --> 00:58:50,039
and market sizes and how everyone seems to be putting

1170
00:58:50,079 --> 00:58:52,800
into this, and he mentioned he brought up this this example,

1171
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:54,559
and I'm so glad he did it, because if he hadn't,

1172
00:58:54,599 --> 00:58:57,639
I was going to do it. Of David stern One

1173
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,760
saying the best thing we can get its Lakers, Lakers

1174
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:05,039
in the finals, it seems like that started an avalanche,

1175
00:59:05,559 --> 00:59:10,679
and that sentence has kind of been just brainwashing to

1176
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:13,960
people as if that is how the league thinks. That is,

1177
00:59:14,039 --> 00:59:16,760
it has to be big markets, and it should be

1178
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:19,920
Nicks Lakers every single year in the finals, or whatever

1179
00:59:20,559 --> 00:59:24,639
that is. I can say with absolute certainty, not what

1180
00:59:24,639 --> 00:59:29,119
the league wants whatsoever. They are very interested in maintaining

1181
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,440
what is going on right now. Or we're going to

1182
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:36,039
have seven different champions in seven different years. So whenever

1183
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:38,960
you're see anything about like the narrative of oh the

1184
00:59:39,039 --> 00:59:42,119
league is disappointed, Yeah, that's bullshit.

1185
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 1: Uh cool. The other storyline I think is, well, I

1186
00:59:46,559 --> 00:59:48,280
was saying we're not going to give a credence and

1187
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:49,800
then we just spend time giving a credit.

1188
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,159
Speaker 2: I do, I do, go, Oh, that's not giving credit.

1189
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,599
I'm just I'm just saying, like this is a perfect

1190
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,320
it was. I'm amplifying your point by saying, this is

1191
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:01,559
the perfect time to focus on basketball. Let the other

1192
01:00:01,639 --> 01:00:02,480
narratives die.

1193
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,559
Speaker 1: Do you think that there's an element of people like

1194
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,840
us assume that it's gonna like people are going to

1195
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:10,599
package this as an issue, so we're getting out in

1196
01:00:10,639 --> 01:00:12,440
front of it and talking about something that no one's

1197
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,800
actually complaining about. I'm not as plugged into what people

1198
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,960
outside of my silo, whereas I'm not following I guess

1199
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,760
the types of content creators or networks, or at least

1200
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,639
not paying attention to them that would be discussing whether

1201
01:00:26,719 --> 01:00:27,559
this is important.

1202
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 2: Sir, sir, we live in twenty twenty five and the

1203
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:34,079
world right now is a little bit on fire every

1204
01:00:34,119 --> 01:00:38,039
single day of the week, and people are leading hard

1205
01:00:38,159 --> 01:00:42,599
into some of the wildest fucking shit that we never

1206
01:00:42,639 --> 01:00:46,239
thought they would. Yes, I think that's very much a possibility.

1207
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,800
You could look, a report could come out saying Adam

1208
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,639
Silver is secretly I lizard and people will buy. So

1209
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,280
you know that's I'm just not ruling anything out here.

1210
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: The other storyline I have here is is like I

1211
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:04,800
think this is gonna be a great measuring stick for

1212
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:07,960
It's a great measuring stick for the Thunder, but I'm

1213
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,119
more so looking at it because they are the heavy favorites.

1214
01:01:10,119 --> 01:01:12,199
The betting odds as we were recording, this is minus

1215
01:01:12,199 --> 01:01:15,519
seven hundred in favor of Oklahoma City. Are they really

1216
01:01:15,559 --> 01:01:18,760
that head and shoulders better than the rest of the league?

1217
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:20,519
And it's like we saw Denver kind of push them

1218
01:01:20,519 --> 01:01:23,280
to the brink. You dispatch Minnesota in five games, and

1219
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,480
now I know you're up against an Eastern Conference team,

1220
01:01:25,519 --> 01:01:27,360
So maybe it's not act an accurate portrayal of the

1221
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:29,800
entire league since the West is so much deeper. But

1222
01:01:30,239 --> 01:01:34,559
as we talk about parody, you also the Thunder and

1223
01:01:34,599 --> 01:01:36,360
I said this on a previous podcast. They have this

1224
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,400
feeling of an evitability to me. And it's just if

1225
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,199
they rattle off one title here, I know, windows open

1226
01:01:42,199 --> 01:01:43,440
and shut all the time in the NBA, even when

1227
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,719
you don't expect them to. They are a team where

1228
01:01:46,719 --> 01:01:49,360
it's like it's set up for them to run this

1229
01:01:49,519 --> 01:01:51,880
for a while. They don't have to worry about the

1230
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,719
second apron stuff for a couple more years, and even

1231
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,000
when they do, that's why you have all these draft

1232
01:01:57,039 --> 01:01:58,880
picks that you can kind of try and replenish your

1233
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,239
rotation with these cost controlled guys, and then there's just

1234
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:04,679
the point of like even looking at the next three years,

1235
01:02:05,199 --> 01:02:07,840
it's this series to me, like it's kind of on

1236
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,440
the Pacers to prove it is. Okay, we know that

1237
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:13,199
the thunder are kind of the team to beat at

1238
01:02:13,199 --> 01:02:15,320
this point, but like, how close is the rest of

1239
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,519
the league, How close is the best the Eastern Conference

1240
01:02:17,559 --> 01:02:19,639
has to send? And I'm gonna be very interested to

1241
01:02:19,639 --> 01:02:22,000
see whether because I think the most popular picks not

1242
01:02:22,039 --> 01:02:25,079
to spoil predictions, but they're gonna be probably Thunder and

1243
01:02:25,119 --> 01:02:27,000
five or Thunder and six. I'll be shocked if I

1244
01:02:27,039 --> 01:02:29,559
see any thunder and seven or Pacers and seven, let

1245
01:02:29,559 --> 01:02:32,719
alone Pacers in five or something. So that's what I'm

1246
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,519
gonna kind of just be tracking, is like, is this

1247
01:02:35,559 --> 01:02:38,079
still because we've seen the Thunder go through some self

1248
01:02:38,119 --> 01:02:40,599
sabotaging stretches as well, Like it feels like their offense

1249
01:02:40,639 --> 01:02:42,480
can still bock down at points not as big of

1250
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:45,880
an issue against Minnesota, of course, and if they don't, like,

1251
01:02:46,039 --> 01:02:49,199
is there a chance that we emerge from this series thinking, oh,

1252
01:02:49,199 --> 01:02:51,880
the Thunder just they figured it out, Like those kind

1253
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,800
of those those like clunky offensive stretches, they just don't

1254
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,440
they don't no longer exist. Like j dubb is that

1255
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:00,719
guy as the number two, that's what we was chet.

1256
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:02,840
It's felt like over what the past like eight or

1257
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:04,880
zero games, feels like he's just really come into his

1258
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:07,559
postseason on And so I think there's a chance. And

1259
01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:10,119
this has meant no disrespect to the Pacers. I would

1260
01:03:10,119 --> 01:03:11,800
be rooting for them to make this a long series

1261
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:13,840
to disprove this. But I'm kind of gonna be monitoring

1262
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,880
to see how close is everybody to Okay, see right.

1263
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:21,559
Speaker 2: Now, that's interesting. I mean, look, when the Celtics won

1264
01:03:21,559 --> 01:03:25,039
the title last year, I think everyone was kind of

1265
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:28,880
expecting them because if everyone ran with the narrative of, oh,

1266
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:32,159
if there's a team that could break the current stretch

1267
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:36,239
of just one time champions, it's gonna be the Celtics.

1268
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:39,400
Oh long, and behold where we are right now? Right,

1269
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,239
So I get what you're saying, like, oh, they figured

1270
01:03:42,239 --> 01:03:43,639
it out, they could go on this run, they could

1271
01:03:43,679 --> 01:03:47,199
win multiple titles in a row. It's so hard to

1272
01:03:47,239 --> 01:03:50,480
win in the NBA, man, it's so freaking hard. And

1273
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:53,920
just going getting back to the finals back to back

1274
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:59,039
is ridiculous. So yeah, I mean it's gonna be a narrative.

1275
01:03:59,039 --> 01:04:01,360
It's gonna be a storyline. And I'm taking into the

1276
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:05,000
year by year basis. I've learned my lesson of not

1277
01:04:05,119 --> 01:04:08,159
sitting there and going, oh, this team is definitely going

1278
01:04:08,199 --> 01:04:11,880
to A B and C next year. Like no, if

1279
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:15,039
history have shown us anything, it's well, it's so unpredictable.

1280
01:04:15,559 --> 01:04:17,679
Speaker 1: I would agree with that. But also, like, this is

1281
01:04:17,719 --> 01:04:20,320
also just a team that is so good and so

1282
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:22,719
deep that they're like even at the top, like they

1283
01:04:22,719 --> 01:04:25,559
could just be entering generational territory to where it's I'm

1284
01:04:25,599 --> 01:04:29,000
not saying that they're the like dynastic Golden State Warriors,

1285
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,000
but like this isn't. And look, I made the mistake

1286
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,079
of saying I thought the Nuggets were like this is

1287
01:04:33,119 --> 01:04:35,239
a team that's just set up to continue churning out

1288
01:04:35,639 --> 01:04:38,079
finals appearances. And so I totally understand the point of

1289
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:40,480
and I'm not guaranteeing they're just gonna run off.

1290
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 2: Five, No, I hear you, And you're right. I mean,

1291
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:48,920
look from a roster construction perspective, absolutely, from an age perspective, absolutely,

1292
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:53,639
from a talent perspective, absolutely, you know they have the depth,

1293
01:04:53,639 --> 01:04:55,639
they have the contracts that work in their favorite Like,

1294
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:58,639
I'm not disagreeing with you. I think of any seam

1295
01:04:58,719 --> 01:05:01,320
at the NBA, if they win this whole thing, yeah,

1296
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:05,000
they are probably set up the best, better than anyone

1297
01:05:05,039 --> 01:05:08,320
else to go on, you know, a run of two

1298
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:11,639
or three years where they can take it. But again,

1299
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:14,199
like you said at a denvert, I said it with

1300
01:05:14,239 --> 01:05:17,360
the Celtics and and I'm just at that point where

1301
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,280
I've stopped selling the skin before the bear shot. That's

1302
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:23,960
why I'm reach like, I just I can't do it.

1303
01:05:24,239 --> 01:05:27,559
But you're right in terms of like logical thinking and

1304
01:05:27,639 --> 01:05:32,320
how the salary sheet is looking and everything. Yeah, absolutely,

1305
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,800
this is like this has dynasty upside for sure.

1306
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:38,519
Speaker 1: Who are your biggest X factors for the series. Let's

1307
01:05:38,519 --> 01:05:40,840
start with who's your biggest pacers X factor?

1308
01:05:41,519 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 2: How the hell did you just get a visual into

1309
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:48,360
my mind? That's Aaron Nesmith an Alex That's great. Okay,

1310
01:05:49,519 --> 01:05:53,239
well there you go. So Aaron Nesmith. Obviously, I know

1311
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:57,760
there's some ancle issues. I think he elevated himself to

1312
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:01,119
a point where he's been underrated for all while now

1313
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,599
because he's played on at the big scene, and he's

1314
01:06:03,639 --> 01:06:05,960
had the games that he's had. There's just no to

1315
01:06:06,039 --> 01:06:08,199
waste about it. He's a high end starter. Now he's

1316
01:06:08,239 --> 01:06:11,199
that dude. He's a guy who you know, his stat

1317
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:15,039
line is never going to accurately portray he's important to

1318
01:06:15,119 --> 01:06:18,239
a team. It's never gonna match up. It's never gonna

1319
01:06:18,239 --> 01:06:21,920
sync up is probably the better term. He is overwhelmingly

1320
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:25,159
important for them for defensive purposes, even on the glass,

1321
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:27,679
or he will come in and have major games there

1322
01:06:28,239 --> 01:06:31,079
when you didn't expect him to. From a shooting perspective,

1323
01:06:31,119 --> 01:06:34,440
he moves the ball quickly, something that his assist rate

1324
01:06:34,599 --> 01:06:38,000
isn't really reflective of, possibly because it's more of an

1325
01:06:38,079 --> 01:06:41,159
hockey assist or even like a secondary hockey assist. He

1326
01:06:41,719 --> 01:06:43,679
just knows how to play the game. I think he's

1327
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:46,719
a major, major player in this series just in terms

1328
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:50,440
of like the defensive output, the offensive production, the off

1329
01:06:50,559 --> 01:06:55,960
ball gravity wildly important, and then brought up Crusoe already

1330
01:06:56,079 --> 01:06:59,840
in terms of just how versatile he is defensively, but

1331
01:07:00,119 --> 01:07:03,679
what we didn't talk about is his offensive capabilities. He's

1332
01:07:03,719 --> 01:07:07,599
a connector and like I think, for some reason, he

1333
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:11,400
hasn't been viewed like in the context of connector like

1334
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:14,960
Bruce Brown for example, but he very much is his

1335
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:19,559
ability to relocate off of offensive rebounds and like get

1336
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,320
the get the ball and like make a quick read,

1337
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:25,920
be that a shot or a pass or whatever. It's elite.

1338
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:29,840
He's so good at understanding when to move when his

1339
01:07:30,679 --> 01:07:35,679
guys turning his head. So these two guys are not

1340
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:37,920
going to be the main stars. They're not going to

1341
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:41,559
be you know, Ferry plus point at scoring averages, it's

1342
01:07:41,599 --> 01:07:44,119
not going to be any of that, but they are

1343
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:48,440
going to be huge, huge CHEX factors throughout the entire series.

1344
01:07:50,719 --> 01:07:53,480
Speaker 1: Well for the Pacers, I probably, like Aaron E. Smith,

1345
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:57,079
totally agree there. For variety's sake. I think Bennecmathren would

1346
01:07:57,079 --> 01:07:59,679
deserve an honorable mention there because if you're going to

1347
01:07:59,719 --> 01:08:03,400
need to generate offense, like you mentioned the free throws

1348
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:04,679
and just the stuff that he's able to do on

1349
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:08,239
the ball, if Okaysee does a successful job of getting

1350
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:11,119
the ball out of Tyre's Haliburton's hands, you need another

1351
01:08:11,159 --> 01:08:14,000
safety valve. Aside from Pascal Siakam, you need another safety valve,

1352
01:08:14,039 --> 01:08:17,880
even aside from Andrew Nemhard. And he's probably Aaronisman's gotten

1353
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:19,439
better like on conn of those that we know what

1354
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:21,680
the shooting does, but on those like physical, those heady,

1355
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:25,199
those shoulder drives. But Bennet mcmathern could still like he

1356
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:27,159
can just light it up in a way that I

1357
01:08:27,239 --> 01:08:30,399
think even Andrew Nemhart you wouldn't necessarily predict that from

1358
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:33,039
So I'm wondering if he becomes you know, we've seen

1359
01:08:33,079 --> 01:08:35,239
his role Wax and Wayne throughout the playoffs, but I'm

1360
01:08:35,239 --> 01:08:38,399
wondering if he becomes subtly important to the Pacers this series.

1361
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are all good names. This is why I

1362
01:08:42,199 --> 01:08:45,199
love the Pacers, right, There are so many candidates here.

1363
01:08:45,239 --> 01:08:48,000
You can even argue, like Ben Sheppard, if is this

1364
01:08:48,119 --> 01:08:52,439
gonna be a Ben Sheppard series? Right? Ah? Man, this

1365
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:53,560
team is just fun to watch.

1366
01:08:54,399 --> 01:08:56,239
Speaker 1: And I think for okay, see if you were gonna

1367
01:08:56,279 --> 01:08:59,800
go somewhere other than the Caruso route, I'm contractually abbligated

1368
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:05,159
to say and Andrew Wiggins Aaron Wiggins. But Cason Wallace,

1369
01:09:05,159 --> 01:09:06,439
I think I picked him as an X factor in

1370
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:08,680
the Timberwolves series if I remember correctly. But like that is,

1371
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,920
if if the thunder decide, hey, we want Alex Russo

1372
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:13,600
either guarding a big or we want him in more

1373
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:17,279
of just like a chaos roaming role like Cason Watas

1374
01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:18,479
is gonna be the dude that gets a ton of

1375
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:21,520
reps against the Tyres Halbert there then so or if

1376
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:23,439
you're gonna go like against an Andrew nem Harder or

1377
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:25,880
Benedict Maathern on the ball. So I think that that's

1378
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:27,760
he's been an X factor for them all playoffs. And

1379
01:09:28,159 --> 01:09:30,000
I don't know, and I've mentioned this already, so we

1380
01:09:30,119 --> 01:09:32,760
have talked about it, but he's just in year two

1381
01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:36,720
and he's what in the top seven of what is

1382
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,399
the NBA Championship favorite, Like, he's just in that rotation,

1383
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,079
and it's the fact that he's been in the rotation

1384
01:09:42,159 --> 01:09:45,039
since he was a rookie too, is just sort of wild.

1385
01:09:45,159 --> 01:09:48,199
And now it's forget about the defense. I just trust

1386
01:09:48,279 --> 01:09:50,199
him as a shooter now, like when he I used

1387
01:09:50,239 --> 01:09:52,760
to just get a little cagey. Well, wonder why why

1388
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:54,600
isn't he shooting more? When he gets it up, it's, oh,

1389
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:56,439
I don't know that I expected to go in. I

1390
01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:59,079
just trust him to hit threes now and so the

1391
01:09:59,279 --> 01:10:01,600
thunder did it again there, So I mean, but you

1392
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:04,239
could they're another team. Aaron Wiggan, you want to pluck

1393
01:10:04,239 --> 01:10:06,279
aj Mitchell, throw him in? Kenrich Williams. Is he an

1394
01:10:06,359 --> 01:10:08,079
X factor like he might be against some of those

1395
01:10:08,119 --> 01:10:12,199
pas bench units? Kenrich Williams, Isaiah Joe good, Look, anyone

1396
01:10:12,239 --> 01:10:14,239
who's a guard, don't? Okay? Like they use guard to

1397
01:10:14,239 --> 01:10:15,840
guard screens all the time. Let's just name all the

1398
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:17,960
guards who might set screens. We got Isaiah Joe in there,

1399
01:10:18,039 --> 01:10:21,600
so this these teams, as good as they are, they're

1400
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:24,000
also filled with like nothing but X factors after their

1401
01:10:24,079 --> 01:10:24,520
top two.

1402
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:25,119
Speaker 2: Or three players.

1403
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:28,119
Speaker 1: All right, more, it is that time. Would you like

1404
01:10:28,239 --> 01:10:30,800
to take us through your official series prediction?

1405
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:37,520
Speaker 2: Oh man, putting me on the spot, Like the brain

1406
01:10:38,079 --> 01:10:43,960
says thunder and five, but the heart and I'm not

1407
01:10:44,239 --> 01:10:46,720
very good at listening to my heart, so maybe I'm

1408
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:50,840
actually gonna do this for a change. My heart says

1409
01:10:51,399 --> 01:10:54,079
this is one game difference. My heart says thunder and six,

1410
01:10:54,199 --> 01:10:54,880
just because.

1411
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say. My heart says Pacers

1412
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,520
in seven, like they're a team of destiny or something.

1413
01:10:58,600 --> 01:10:59,640
That's what I's waiting.

1414
01:11:00,199 --> 01:11:02,600
Speaker 2: I've only added a game, but I'm doing so because

1415
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:07,159
I want this series to go long, and I think

1416
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:11,439
with this okay seed team sixty is long, so I

1417
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:14,640
you know what, screw it. I'm just gonna say Thunder

1418
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:19,159
and six. Although my brain is disagreeing me with me

1419
01:11:19,239 --> 01:11:19,760
a little bit.

1420
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:23,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go Thunder in five. And I think, look,

1421
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:25,920
Pacers fans, or I would encourage you to get angry

1422
01:11:26,039 --> 01:11:27,680
or you could thank me because I picked against your

1423
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:29,159
team in each of the past two series and they

1424
01:11:29,239 --> 01:11:31,680
ended up winning. So maybe there's some sort of reverse

1425
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,399
jinks going on there. But what I will say to

1426
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:36,439
try and I want to make an embersence that I'm

1427
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:38,960
not trying to disrespect the Pacers here. There is not

1428
01:11:39,079 --> 01:11:41,319
a team that could have come out of the Eastern

1429
01:11:41,359 --> 01:11:45,079
Conference this season the healthy Celtics that I would have

1430
01:11:45,119 --> 01:11:47,119
picked to have beaten the Thunder. The most I would

1431
01:11:47,159 --> 01:11:49,640
have given is maybe a full strength Celtics team six

1432
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:52,720
games maybe, but I probably would have picked Thunder in five,

1433
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:55,720
whether they were facing the Calves, the Knicks, the fully

1434
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:59,000
healthy Celtics. I think that's how good this Oklahoma City

1435
01:11:59,079 --> 01:12:01,479
team is. And I did say this about the Celtics

1436
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,159
after they won last year. Looking at the season in

1437
01:12:04,239 --> 01:12:07,439
a snapshot, I really do believe that we are going

1438
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:10,119
to look back on this season, even more so than

1439
01:12:10,399 --> 01:12:12,600
some of us might have done with the Celtics, and

1440
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:14,960
it's just gonna be like, Man, we overthought this entire

1441
01:12:15,039 --> 01:12:18,199
fucking discussion about parody because the thunder just exists, and

1442
01:12:18,279 --> 01:12:21,520
all those concerns that were manufactured about the secondary offense,

1443
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:27,239
this team is just like no team is perfect. And

1444
01:12:27,319 --> 01:12:29,319
I do have some offensive questions about them still, and

1445
01:12:29,399 --> 01:12:31,640
we've seen some of them manifest in the playoffs. They

1446
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:33,760
are so good, they can beat you in so many

1447
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:38,239
different ways, and the ferocity with which they defend and

1448
01:12:38,319 --> 01:12:41,760
are able to sustain that ferocity is insane. And I

1449
01:12:42,079 --> 01:12:44,640
just don't think there's a team in the league this season.

1450
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:46,479
I don't know what could happen before next season. As

1451
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:49,439
to your point about don't declare them this dynasty yet,

1452
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:53,119
I'm totally with you there. I don't even think there's

1453
01:12:53,159 --> 01:12:54,840
a team that can hold a ten foot poll to

1454
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,079
them that was in the league this year, like the

1455
01:12:57,119 --> 01:12:59,039
way they were built this year, I just I don't

1456
01:12:59,119 --> 01:13:02,079
The Celtics again, full strength might have come closest to

1457
01:13:02,159 --> 01:13:04,359
me on paper, but I might have even like you

1458
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:07,000
had your own offensive questions about them. I'm not saying

1459
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,600
you specifically, but like they were, they weren't super top heavy,

1460
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:12,720
but it's like, okay, after the top six, it's like

1461
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:14,680
how much do you trust of Peyton Pritchard or Sam

1462
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:18,359
Hauser and against the Thunder. So it's I will root

1463
01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:20,960
to be wrong in the sense that what have we seen?

1464
01:13:21,079 --> 01:13:24,239
So we saw five games last year, five games the

1465
01:13:24,319 --> 01:13:26,840
year before in the finals in twenty twenty or no,

1466
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:29,840
we got six in twenty twenty. No, twenty twenty three

1467
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:31,520
was five games, right with the Nuggets in the heat.

1468
01:13:32,119 --> 01:13:34,840
Twenty twenty two was six. The Warriors beat the Celtics

1469
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:39,000
in six twenty twenty one. How many games did we get? Like,

1470
01:13:39,119 --> 01:13:40,960
I just want I want a game seven in the

1471
01:13:41,079 --> 01:13:42,920
NBA Finals. That's what I'll always root for. We didn't

1472
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:44,520
get that in twenty nineteen, we didn't get it in

1473
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:47,560
twenty twenty. So I want to see a game seven.

1474
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:49,359
So I'm rooting to be wrong there. But I just

1475
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:53,800
don't I think that even if the Pacers are able

1476
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:57,079
to defend the Thunder well enough, and I won't roll

1477
01:13:57,119 --> 01:13:59,000
out the fact that they can, I think they're gonna

1478
01:13:59,039 --> 01:14:00,960
run out of answers. On Off it's against his Oklahoma

1479
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:01,960
City defense.

1480
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:07,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be interesting how we're like, look back at

1481
01:14:07,199 --> 01:14:10,439
this season in the playoffs if it turns out the

1482
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:15,399
biggest threat to OKC was Denver right in some capacity?

1483
01:14:17,239 --> 01:14:21,159
Speaker 1: Does yeah, and that's like, yeah, that is the toughest

1484
01:14:21,159 --> 01:14:23,319
series they've had by far. It's not even close. Yeah, right,

1485
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:28,000
especially because do you feel a sure Nuggets fan? Do

1486
01:14:28,079 --> 01:14:30,199
you feel better about that as a Nuggets fan or

1487
01:14:30,239 --> 01:14:32,199
do you feel almost worse to where it's you could

1488
01:14:32,199 --> 01:14:34,640
look at it and say, oh, we're not that far away,

1489
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:37,560
or oh, we had this shot and had we done

1490
01:14:38,319 --> 01:14:42,119
something like five to ten percent better of like roster optimization,

1491
01:14:42,279 --> 01:14:44,119
like maybe we would be in the finals right now,

1492
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:48,960
or then could you look at it and say, oh,

1493
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:51,399
is the front office whoever's leading it? By the way,

1494
01:14:51,399 --> 01:14:53,199
as we record this, there's no lead. They have a coach,

1495
01:14:53,239 --> 01:14:55,119
they hired a head coach, kudos to David Adaman, but

1496
01:14:55,159 --> 01:14:57,600
they still don't have a lead basketball executive. Is this

1497
01:14:57,720 --> 01:14:59,600
going to be just I know that they're limited in

1498
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:01,600
their ass sets some flexibility, but will this just be

1499
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:04,439
a further impetus of to say we took the champs

1500
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:07,079
that like that they blew through everybody else except for

1501
01:15:07,199 --> 01:15:09,000
us we got to run this back no changes.

1502
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:13,359
Speaker 2: OK, then I feel worse than you feel.

1503
01:15:13,359 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 1: What it's like, we have to use our miniml on

1504
01:15:15,039 --> 01:15:17,680
someone that we need to offload with attached to second

1505
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:20,000
round picks, because that's the tradition, and that's how that's

1506
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,079
how we almost beat the thunder. That was the blueprint.

1507
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:25,800
Speaker 2: God, they have so many questions, but that's what I'm saying.

1508
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:29,680
It's such a weird year. If that was their biggest test, right,

1509
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:32,680
like that was just the matchup thing. But like I

1510
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:35,880
also said at the time, they needed to go through

1511
01:15:36,239 --> 01:15:39,239
a serious like that, Like they needed that. They went

1512
01:15:39,319 --> 01:15:42,399
up against the best player in all of basketball, and

1513
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:46,479
they had to think outside the box. They had to

1514
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:49,319
do things that they may not have felt comfortable with.

1515
01:15:50,119 --> 01:15:53,279
And I mean, I'm not saying that if they hadn't

1516
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:57,319
like if how to phrase this, I'm not saying that

1517
01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:00,920
even if they hadn't met Denver would have lost against

1518
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:04,560
Minnesota or anything of that sort. But I just I

1519
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:07,119
think it gave them something. I think it gave them

1520
01:16:07,279 --> 01:16:10,560
some level of maturity and know how, whatever you want

1521
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,359
to call it. I think it provided them with something

1522
01:16:13,399 --> 01:16:14,239
that they brought forward.

1523
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:17,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it wasn't an arrival. It was like an affirmation.

1524
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:19,520
It's like, oh no, like this is what we all

1525
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:21,760
were kind of waiting for, Like it's here. It's yeah,

1526
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:23,680
it hasn't arrived, it's been here, but like this is

1527
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:26,600
just them reinforcing as much. Yeah, that's fair moret so

1528
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:29,640
with that, I have thunder in five, you have thunder

1529
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:31,960
in three, which is a very interesting pick. But I

1530
01:16:32,079 --> 01:16:34,600
understand where you're coming from. This is gonna be I

1531
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:36,119
think this, YERI is gonna be really fun and I'm

1532
01:16:36,159 --> 01:16:38,720
rooting for I'm rooting for myself to be wrong in

1533
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:41,239
a sense that after two straight finals of only going

1534
01:16:41,279 --> 01:16:43,720
five games, I want to see a longer final series.

1535
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:46,560
But with that are able to tell our listeners subscribers

1536
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:47,880
where they can find you and all the work that

1537
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:48,159
you do.

1538
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:50,359
Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, you can find me over at Blue Sky

1539
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:53,760
at msj NVA, or you can find me at Yahoo

1540
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:56,800
and Forbes where I do a lot of writing there,

1541
01:16:57,239 --> 01:17:01,239
the NV podcast and the Danish I guess us plus.

1542
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 1: Until next time, and as always, with the shout out

1543
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:10,479
to the one, the only, the legendary mister Frank Nila Quina.

1544
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:12,159
Mm hmm,