WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>And banks themselves will issue on the same technology as

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<v Speaker 1>stable coins. They'll issue a coin it'll be just as

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<v Speaker 1>interoperable as a stable coin, but it'll have a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of extra benefits. One is it will be able to

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<v Speaker 1>pay interest, not yield. It'll be FDIC insured, it will

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<v Speaker 1>have Reggae consumer protections, and all those wallets will have identity.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode is brought to you by Uphold, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a great crypto platform that I've been using since twenty eighteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Uphold makes it easy to buy, sell, trade cryptocurrencies like

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<v Speaker 2>bitcoin and all coins. In fact, they have three hundred

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<v Speaker 2>plus cryptocurrencies on their platform, and they carry precious metals

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<v Speaker 2>I've never had any issues with them, and they are

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent reserved. You can review their transparency report.

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<v Speaker 2>They don't commingle or lend out your funds. Now recently

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<v Speaker 2>with many benefits. You can earn up to five point

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five percent on stable coins, get twenty four our

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<v Speaker 2>early access to new token listings, and unlock exclusive crypto

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<v Speaker 2>insights and a support a variety of stable coins such

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<v Speaker 2>as PYUSD that's PayPal stable coins Circles, USDC, and USBC.

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<v Speaker 2>They will be supporting Ripples's upcoming launch of RLUSD. So

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<v Speaker 2>this is a really great rewards program and if you'd

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<v Speaker 2>like to learn more, please visit the link in the description.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host, Tony

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<v Speaker 2>Edward and my guest today is Greg Kidd, who is

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<v Speaker 2>the co founder of hard Yaka and the CEO of USBC. Greg,

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<v Speaker 2>great to see you, Great.

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<v Speaker 1>To have you back on Hey, thanks for having me. Greg.

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<v Speaker 2>You've been head of the curve in many ways in

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<v Speaker 2>the crypto industry, investing in different crypto companies and projects

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<v Speaker 2>going back years, and we've spoken i think a few

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<v Speaker 2>times over the years. So I'm curious what's the latest

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<v Speaker 2>with hard Yaka and any new investments, any new developments

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<v Speaker 2>on your end.

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<v Speaker 1>So the big thing for hard Yaka now is we're

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<v Speaker 1>all in on USBC, which is a deposit token runs

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<v Speaker 1>on the same rails as stable coins, but it'll be

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<v Speaker 1>issued directly by banks and including our bank, which is

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<v Speaker 1>Vast Bank, which will be the initial bank to issue

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<v Speaker 1>a deposit token running on either Permission Ethereum or on Solana,

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<v Speaker 1>and that will be new to the market. Right now,

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<v Speaker 1>it is still a stable coin, but shortly we will

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<v Speaker 1>bring it over and bring it within the banking ecosystem.

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<v Speaker 1>We can kind of talk about the pros and cons there,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's the big focus of hard Yaka going forward,

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<v Speaker 1>especially with the stable coin legislation coming down the pike

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<v Speaker 1>in this country in the next six months.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's talk at bit about USBC because I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>user of Uphold, a platform you've been invested in and

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<v Speaker 2>a platform I've bought and solo crypto on, and they

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<v Speaker 2>have a rewards program where they offer five point two

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<v Speaker 2>five percent on USBC if you were to participate in

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<v Speaker 2>that program. So you mentioned it's a stable coin format now,

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<v Speaker 2>but you said it will be or evolve or be

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<v Speaker 2>transformed into a deposit token, right.

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<v Speaker 1>So, currently for stable coins, they're issued by FinTechs like

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<v Speaker 1>Tether's a fintech circle is issuing USDC along with Coinbase,

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<v Speaker 1>and USBC is currently issued out of the Bahamas under

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<v Speaker 1>the darract. It's a regulated entity out there. All of

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<v Speaker 1>those have their funds invested in banks and other marketable securities.

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<v Speaker 1>But the difference will be going forward with deposit tokens

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<v Speaker 1>is the middleman will be cut out and banks themselves

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<v Speaker 1>will issue on the same technology as stable coins. They'll

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<v Speaker 1>issue a coin. It'll be just as interoperable as a

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<v Speaker 1>stable coin, but it'll have a couple of extra benefits.

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<v Speaker 1>One is it will be able to pay interest, not yield.

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<v Speaker 1>It'll be the FDIC ensured, it will have Reggie consumer protections,

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<v Speaker 1>and all those wallets will have identity. For stable coins,

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<v Speaker 1>they might have identity, they might not, And maybe that's

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<v Speaker 1>okay for some folks, but for folks who want to

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<v Speaker 1>know that the entire ecosystem is green, it always has identity.

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<v Speaker 1>Deposit tokens will have few that feature in a way

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<v Speaker 1>that stable coins can't match.

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<v Speaker 2>So do you see both of these products coexisting as

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<v Speaker 2>the digital economy un full of stable coins and depositokens?

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<v Speaker 2>And do you see depositokens being used more on the

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<v Speaker 2>commercial side while stable coins on the retail site.

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<v Speaker 1>They will coexist. There are a lot of situations where

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that the stable coin can be held in

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<v Speaker 1>a non custodial wallet without identity is not problematic. It's

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<v Speaker 1>actually desirable. There's a lot of DeFi stable coins are

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<v Speaker 1>really popular in trade file so like the most liquid

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<v Speaker 1>piers are, for instance, tether, Bitcoin or te Solana, So

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<v Speaker 1>there are going to be uses for that. But when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes to actual things like day to day commerce,

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<v Speaker 1>we're betting that kind of the protections you have, like

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<v Speaker 1>when you use bank money and something goes wrong and

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<v Speaker 1>you can get it back, that'll make a deposit token

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<v Speaker 1>still using all the benefits of stable coin technology for

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<v Speaker 1>being able to be moved twenty four to seven really

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<v Speaker 1>really cheaply and in a way that's programmable, good for developers.

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<v Speaker 1>So we think that both of those will coexist. We

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<v Speaker 1>think they'll be liquidity providers. Will be one of those

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<v Speaker 1>liquidity providers. We'll make sure there's one to one parody

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<v Speaker 1>between the stable coins and the deposit tokens.

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<v Speaker 2>So for the folks who are listening and they're like, wait,

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<v Speaker 2>deposit token, I've not heard about this. So let's say

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<v Speaker 2>this goes live right for USBC, will I would users

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<v Speaker 2>be able to take the token and be able to

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<v Speaker 2>use it the same way to use stable coins.

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<v Speaker 1>In addition to yeah, just think like a stable coin

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<v Speaker 1>is a dollar that's on chain. It has an address

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<v Speaker 1>and you can just send it from one address to another,

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<v Speaker 1>just like crypto, but it is a US dollar. This

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<v Speaker 1>will be the same. They'll have one additional feature. It'll

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<v Speaker 1>also have a bank account number. So there's no way,

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<v Speaker 1>for instance, for you to get your paycheck deposited directly

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<v Speaker 1>into your USDC address because it goes through a different system.

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<v Speaker 1>It goes through the banking system, and so this will

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<v Speaker 1>basically be a bridge between the banking system wire transfers

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<v Speaker 1>acch fed now and the crypto rails, which is blockchain, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and so there's no reason. Remember the days when phones

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<v Speaker 1>you had a CDMA phone or something else and they said,

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<v Speaker 1>well why don't we put both chips in the phone?

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<v Speaker 1>Or used to buy a laptop and it was either

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<v Speaker 1>one ten or two twenty and if you plugged it

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<v Speaker 1>into the wrong one, it blew up, and then they

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<v Speaker 1>just started making things dual voltage. Well, that's what a

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<v Speaker 1>deposit token is. You'll have both a crypto address, but

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<v Speaker 1>it'll also have a banking address, and so you can

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<v Speaker 1>use it in either world.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's interesting. That's definitely going to be a disruption

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<v Speaker 2>of the stable coin market. It seems like with maybe

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<v Speaker 2>taking some market share, people going to deposit token versus

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<v Speaker 2>stable coins.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, come on, right now, the whole stable cooin market's

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<v Speaker 1>only two hundred billion. I expect within three years to

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<v Speaker 1>be ten x that. So this is this is just

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that all money is going to shift from

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<v Speaker 1>being digital to being tokenized, whether as a stable coin

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<v Speaker 1>or a deposit token. It's just a better form of

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<v Speaker 1>a digital dollar. And so this is going to be

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<v Speaker 1>a growing market. So I think this can be a

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<v Speaker 1>huge increase in stable coins. I think, you know, it'll

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<v Speaker 1>just be right alongside that will be deposit tokens. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's the way that the banking industry will participate. They

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<v Speaker 1>don't need stable coin legislation. They already have the authority

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<v Speaker 1>to hold a deposit. They just need to make sure

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<v Speaker 1>that deposit operates in the same efficiency as a stable coin.

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<v Speaker 2>So would that in mind, and to repeal as saw

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<v Speaker 2>one to one in the FD I see saying they're

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<v Speaker 2>going to remove some restrictions. Do you see this year

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<v Speaker 2>being a boom for deposit tokens and stable coins and

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<v Speaker 2>these banks kind of what you're like, what you're doing

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<v Speaker 2>going all in?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, our bank. The when we bought I

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<v Speaker 1>bought Beast Bank, it actually had the first non objection

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<v Speaker 1>letter from the OCC to do crypto. Now we're not

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<v Speaker 1>actually doing cryptos. So when I talk about deposit tokens

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<v Speaker 1>or even stable coins, we're using blockchain and we're using

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<v Speaker 1>distributed ledger technology, but we're not actually using or holding cryptos.

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<v Speaker 1>So even with SAB one twenty one being repealed, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think banks like mine, I don't think we have

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<v Speaker 1>any particular advantage in crypto over companies that are pure

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<v Speaker 1>custodians or incidental custodians because they're already in exchange, they

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<v Speaker 1>already have those skills. I think the best thing that

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<v Speaker 1>we can do this is just our decision is be

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<v Speaker 1>a bridge between the dollar world, which we live in,

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<v Speaker 1>and the crypto world. So we might have customers that

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<v Speaker 1>are crypto companies that need to hold dollars at a bank,

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<v Speaker 1>and they'll have a choice, you know, they could hold

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<v Speaker 1>dollars in a stable stable coin function, or they may

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<v Speaker 1>want to hold them in a bank function because once

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<v Speaker 1>again they won't be held in this system in a

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<v Speaker 1>pooled account like they used to do, like for a

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<v Speaker 1>square wallet or the way Coinbase, every user will have

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<v Speaker 1>their own actual account, and companies like crypto companies, when

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<v Speaker 1>they need to deal with dollars on behalf of their customers,

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<v Speaker 1>they won't need to hold those dollars in a pooled account.

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<v Speaker 1>They can just access those dollars directly through open banking.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is a different way of the banking industry

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<v Speaker 1>serving the crypto industry. They'll give crypto companies a treasury account,

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<v Speaker 1>but they won't need to hold pooled funds anymore. That's

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<v Speaker 1>how we got into trouble with FTX and finance too.

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<v Speaker 1>The banks had an opegue FBO account. That will end,

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<v Speaker 1>we believe, and people will move to having their dollars

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<v Speaker 1>directly at the bank, but in a form that's on

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<v Speaker 1>chain and then through APIs. All those crypto companies or

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<v Speaker 1>other fintech companies, they can still do everything they used

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<v Speaker 1>to do with a pooled account, but now they'll just

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<v Speaker 1>be able to do it by interacting directly with the

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<v Speaker 1>bank's ledger, which happens to be a blockchain ledger. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's good for all parties concerned. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>there'll be more compliance. Crypto companies and fintech companies will

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<v Speaker 1>be able to do everything they've done before and more

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<v Speaker 1>they'll get closer to the rails of ach and wires

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<v Speaker 1>and they'll be able to just jump right into DeFi

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever else they want to do trade FI. So

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<v Speaker 1>I do see all parties working more closely in this

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<v Speaker 1>new arrangement.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, what you're doing to usb C is a proprietary.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you planning to sell this technology or lease it

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<v Speaker 2>out or go to other banks and pitch this technology?

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<v Speaker 1>It's not proprietary, and really any other bank is welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to join. The technology is not rocket science, really creating

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<v Speaker 1>very little here. What is necessary is you got to

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<v Speaker 1>get the licenses. So the hard part to do basically

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<v Speaker 1>a deposit token is you've got to be a bank first,

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<v Speaker 1>and you've got to be a bank that's willing to

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<v Speaker 1>have some of its assets it's deposit asset's sitting on

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<v Speaker 1>a blockchain. Now, there aren't that many banks out there

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<v Speaker 1>that are comfortable with that, and the ones that are,

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<v Speaker 1>to some extent, like a JP Morgan coin, they're doing

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<v Speaker 1>it in a very siloed way. What I'm suggesting with

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<v Speaker 1>USBC is the tokens aren't to be issued by one bank,

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<v Speaker 1>but a consortium of banks. So every dollar that's out there,

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<v Speaker 1>some percentage of it it's going to be of this

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<v Speaker 1>bank or that bank. It's not like this deposit tokens

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<v Speaker 1>at Bank A and this deposit tokens at Bank Pepe.

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<v Speaker 1>They'll all share in the float of the USBC. And

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<v Speaker 1>that means, you know, you don't get a run on

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<v Speaker 1>any one bank. It's a collection of banks. You can

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<v Speaker 1>think of it as like there's a collection of banks

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<v Speaker 1>behind the visa or whatnot that are collectively issuing tokeniyes deposits,

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<v Speaker 1>and they can shift the balances around between them, depending

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<v Speaker 1>on one has a bigger loan book or one has

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<v Speaker 1>a smaller loan book. But the point is the people

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<v Speaker 1>on the other side, the people that hold these tokens,

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<v Speaker 1>just like the people that hold stable coins. They'll have

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<v Speaker 1>an address and they can just move it around, just

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<v Speaker 1>like you move a stable coin around. The difference here though,

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<v Speaker 1>because it's a bank and because of the licenses, it'll

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<v Speaker 1>be FDIC insured and it'll have consumer protection. What consumer

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<v Speaker 1>protection means if your money you wake up one day

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<v Speaker 1>and it's gone, you can say I didn't authorize that.

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<v Speaker 1>Like with a bank account, you get your money back

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<v Speaker 1>when I wake up in my money's gone. At coinbase,

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<v Speaker 1>they're like, have a nice day, right, Like they're not

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<v Speaker 1>under the same regulatory regime, and you know that gives

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<v Speaker 1>them some freedom, but it also gives pause to some

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<v Speaker 1>consumers who'd like to know and some businesses who'd like

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<v Speaker 1>to know that if your money moves without your authorization,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't care for whatever technical reason, you get your

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<v Speaker 1>money back. And so that's the world of banking. It's

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<v Speaker 1>different than the world of money transmission.

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<v Speaker 2>Now we know FDIC insurance set up. It doesn't cover

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<v Speaker 2>the entire deposit amount I think was up to two

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and fifty thousand dollars per person or whatever. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>will this be different or is follow the same model?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's true, it does just cover up to two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred fifty thousand. There are a bunch of secondary market schemes.

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<v Speaker 1>I used to work at Promontory. We had the Promontory

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<v Speaker 1>inter Financial Network, which had a very clever amount of

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<v Speaker 1>software that just took deposits that were above two fifty

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<v Speaker 1>and cross deposited them at other institutions. So if you

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<v Speaker 1>had five million dollars, your money would actually be cross

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<v Speaker 1>depositive at other banks. That network routed over three thousand banks,

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<v Speaker 1>and so there's a way to basically by by basically

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<v Speaker 1>breaking up into packets to make depositive charts extensible so

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<v Speaker 1>you don't lose it simply because you have a big

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<v Speaker 1>deposit concentration. Now, Silicon Valley Bank had a problem in

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<v Speaker 1>that regard, and you know, people just took it as

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<v Speaker 1>safe until it wasn't, and then they realized a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of their money wasn't insured. But for almost every other

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<v Speaker 1>bank and certainly banks that participate in these networks of redepositing,

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<v Speaker 1>virtually all the funds can end up FDIC insured, and

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<v Speaker 1>so that level of confidence is achievable.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think you may have answered this, but I

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<v Speaker 2>want to make sure I understand. So USBC right now

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<v Speaker 2>in stable coin format once again, I can earn rewards

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<v Speaker 2>on it five point two five percent on like uphold.

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<v Speaker 2>Will the token itself be morphed into fully a deposit

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<v Speaker 2>token or it will be split some of it as

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<v Speaker 2>a stable coins.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll just move it all over to deposit token because

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<v Speaker 1>to us, you'll keep doing everything it does as a

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<v Speaker 1>stable coin, but you'll us get better guarantees. And so

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<v Speaker 1>that that's just a matter of when we move the

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<v Speaker 1>technology that's already operating offshore and bring it on shore

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<v Speaker 1>to work with a bank. And so to get it

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<v Speaker 1>to work with a bank is just going through all

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<v Speaker 1>the regulatory clearances to make sure they're comfortable that the

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<v Speaker 1>ledger we're using as bank industrial strain.

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<v Speaker 2>And you mentioned it will be on the Ethereum and

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<v Speaker 2>Salona blockchains. We've seen stable cord issuers, you know, try

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<v Speaker 2>to put their token on different blockchains so that you

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<v Speaker 2>have more into operability, more reach. Are you planning to

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<v Speaker 2>expand to all the blockchains?

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<v Speaker 1>We're also working with Stellar right now. We're open to

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<v Speaker 1>other chains at the end of the day, though the

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<v Speaker 1>user shouldn't even know which chain we're on. If they

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<v Speaker 1>dig underneath, they can see. But if they're just moving

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<v Speaker 1>money from one user to another, you know, we'll make

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<v Speaker 1>all that. You know, like it shouldn't matter when you're

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<v Speaker 1>making a request on a browser whether you use Safari

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<v Speaker 1>or Chrome right and to us, all those chains just

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<v Speaker 1>they have different pros and cons. You will eventually just

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<v Speaker 1>work our way down the list and and do them

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<v Speaker 1>all because we're not we're chain agnostic for USBC, and.

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<v Speaker 2>I know I think you mentioned it earlier, but I'm

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<v Speaker 2>assuming this the USBC can be a access globally right

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<v Speaker 2>wherever you're at.

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<v Speaker 1>The big watch words always, they're in all of our

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<v Speaker 1>strategic docs, they're in the principles and strategy for the bank.

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<v Speaker 1>And what they're really in is in the executive order

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<v Speaker 1>that came out from the White House that uses two

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<v Speaker 1>words open banking and fair access. And to US, open

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<v Speaker 1>banking means as long as you have the credentials and

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<v Speaker 1>you've delegated responsibility any third party application, any app the

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00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:50.320
<v Speaker 1>developers ought to be able to get access to your

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00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:53.240
<v Speaker 1>funds with your permission to do what you want. And

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<v Speaker 1>fair access means if it's legal and it's licensed, going

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00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.159
<v Speaker 1>to be non discriminatory, and so it's not just race, religion,

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00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:07.759
<v Speaker 1>and gender, it's also national origin. We don't see why

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<v Speaker 1>somebody who has proper compliance credentials should be disallowed from

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00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:16.119
<v Speaker 1>holding a US dollar simply because they live on one

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00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:19.359
<v Speaker 1>side of the border or another. Obviously, stable coins they

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<v Speaker 1>don't have any concern with this, But even for deposit tokens,

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<v Speaker 1>we view it as a fundamental principle of non discrimination

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00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:29.440
<v Speaker 1>and fair access that everybody ought to have access. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're on like the O fact list, your uses

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00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:35.839
<v Speaker 1>may be sharply curtailed, right, And so we expect everybody

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00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:39.240
<v Speaker 1>in the world to have access to US dollars in

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00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:42.279
<v Speaker 1>a compliant form. And really one of the differentiations from

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00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:46.279
<v Speaker 1>stable coins is stable coins just basically service those same

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00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:50.680
<v Speaker 1>people by plausible deniability. You know, it's in a metamoskqualle

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00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.880
<v Speaker 1>it has no identity, We don't know who holds it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Tether issued it, maybe they knew who they

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00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:01.640
<v Speaker 1>issued it to, but two hops away, it's it's just

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00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:05.480
<v Speaker 1>out there, right. And so for some use cases that

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00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:08.839
<v Speaker 1>may be okay. But you know, I personally don't think

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<v Speaker 1>that Walmart's going to want to show up with, you know,

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00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.359
<v Speaker 1>three billion of payments from wallets with no identity. I mean,

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00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:18.359
<v Speaker 1>maybe they're okay with that, but I think at some

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00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:21.680
<v Speaker 1>point in time when a bomb goes off or you know,

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00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:24.960
<v Speaker 1>some big tax evasion or money laundering scheme and you

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00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:27.480
<v Speaker 1>find out that you're part of it because you had

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<v Speaker 1>no idea whose money you were taking in. Yeah, that

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<v Speaker 1>like nobody's really talking or thinking about that right now,

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00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:40.279
<v Speaker 1>because we're all in you know, hey, stable cooint you

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00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:43.400
<v Speaker 1>celebration time because we're going to get some rules, but

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00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:47.440
<v Speaker 1>those rules aren't going to fix those problems. But those

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00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:50.680
<v Speaker 1>problems didn't go away, they just haven't really come to

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00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:53.039
<v Speaker 1>the surface yet. And so we're kind of taking the

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00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:55.960
<v Speaker 1>long term view that eventually there'll be a bunch of

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00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:58.920
<v Speaker 1>people that are okay dealing with the gray market of

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00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.920
<v Speaker 1>wallets with dollars in it that don't have identity, but

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00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:06.200
<v Speaker 1>we're going to be focused on the green market of

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00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:10.559
<v Speaker 1>wallets that or sorry addresses that all have identity. And

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00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:16.240
<v Speaker 1>so you cannot hold a USBC without an identity. That's

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00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:19.279
<v Speaker 1>just part of the smart contract that's built in. And

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00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:23.200
<v Speaker 1>it can be privacy preserving, that's a that's a different issue,

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00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:27.759
<v Speaker 1>but it can't be anonymous. M got it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, and it seems like all the regulations

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00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:34.240
<v Speaker 2>are moving towards having fully KYC AML set up for

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00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:36.759
<v Speaker 2>whether it be stable corn issuers.

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<v Speaker 1>Crypto ex only KYC at the point at which it's

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<v Speaker 1>issued and redeemed. But there's a world in between, right,

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00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:49.640
<v Speaker 1>and so that is a big glaring you know, it's

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00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:51.960
<v Speaker 1>a big glaring loophole. It's like, you know, in America,

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00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:55.400
<v Speaker 1>all gun dealers have to you know, put people through

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00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:59.720
<v Speaker 1>background checks. But if you buy online, you know, peer

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00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:02.440
<v Speaker 1>to peer, or you go to a gun show, no checks,

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00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:09.920
<v Speaker 1>and guess what happens when you have that kind of regulation. Yeah,

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00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:12.920
<v Speaker 1>you get what you get, right, and so you know, look,

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00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:16.920
<v Speaker 1>that's the world stable coins are in. We like it.

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00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:19.359
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I participate in the wild West world. But

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00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.799
<v Speaker 1>I'm also like put my regulator hat on and my

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00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:25.759
<v Speaker 1>law enforcement hat on, and I know that for some

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00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:30.279
<v Speaker 1>economic activity to bring that into the to bring that

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00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:34.039
<v Speaker 1>into blockchain and distribute the Ledger technology, you're gonna need

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00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:37.559
<v Speaker 1>some You're gonna need some compliance, and you're gonna need

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00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:38.240
<v Speaker 1>some identity.

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<v Speaker 2>So on that note, obviously market Structure bill in play

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00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:45.480
<v Speaker 2>is here stable coin legislation. How do you think distable

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<v Speaker 2>coin legislation will affect what you're doing? Is it just

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00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:50.279
<v Speaker 2>gonna amplify it, you know, be better for you guys,

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00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:53.440
<v Speaker 2>because to your point, this is where the puck is going.

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00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:56.039
<v Speaker 2>As far as regulations, well.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's gonna bring in a whole bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>integrators of people like we've already seen them starting come in,

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00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:04.240
<v Speaker 1>like with Visa and Stripe, they're already integrating stable coins

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<v Speaker 1>into their stack, and USBC works just like a stable coin,

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00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:11.720
<v Speaker 1>it just has more compliance built into it, and so

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00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:14.920
<v Speaker 1>it's terrific for us. The more uptake there is of

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00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:19.839
<v Speaker 1>stable coins, once again, that just raises the opportunity for

379
00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:23.799
<v Speaker 1>USBC is just one more type of token that you

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00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:27.599
<v Speaker 1>can plug in if you're concerned about compliance, consumer protection,

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00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:35.119
<v Speaker 1>and security in terms of insurance and whatnot. So we're

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00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:38.640
<v Speaker 1>definitely psyched to be along for the ride for sure.

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00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:43.000
<v Speaker 2>And Vasbank Outside of what you guys are doing here

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00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:46.200
<v Speaker 2>with the deposit token, are you planning to offer any

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00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:50.000
<v Speaker 2>financial services to crypto companies, banking services and other things

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00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:50.240
<v Speaker 2>like that.

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00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:52.559
<v Speaker 1>We'll do all the standing boarding stuff. You want to

388
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:55.400
<v Speaker 1>get a checking you know, we'll do all that as well,

389
00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:59.240
<v Speaker 1>But really it's the inbound from their legacy world. Wire

390
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.680
<v Speaker 1>transfers still come in. You know. Think of it like

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00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:06.359
<v Speaker 1>the window at the casino. You know, somebody's got to

392
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:08.200
<v Speaker 1>run that window where you buy your poker chips. But

393
00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:11.680
<v Speaker 1>let's be clear, nobody hangs around the window at the casino.

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00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.480
<v Speaker 1>They go to the tables, right, and so you know,

395
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:17.519
<v Speaker 1>we will still provide window services to every type of

396
00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:22.160
<v Speaker 1>fintech crypto company. We're going to do all the boring

397
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:24.279
<v Speaker 1>stuff as well, and we're going to keep it boring

398
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:27.000
<v Speaker 1>because you know, the fintech's and the crypto companies, they're

399
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.200
<v Speaker 1>doing the fun stuff and we're just trying to basically

400
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:32.119
<v Speaker 1>remove friction at the window so you can get right

401
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:32.839
<v Speaker 1>to the casino.

402
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:37.599
<v Speaker 2>So I want to get your perspective on Operation choke

403
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:39.640
<v Speaker 2>point two point zero. We're seeing a lot of information

404
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:44.319
<v Speaker 2>coming out of the Fed FDIC, many these folks conversations

405
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:48.839
<v Speaker 2>up blocking crypto companies from getting banking services. Look, I

406
00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:51.759
<v Speaker 2>don't know what happened with SVP SVB, but it seems

407
00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:55.480
<v Speaker 2>like there was an agenda to shut down these banks

408
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:59.920
<v Speaker 2>that were helping crypto companies. In hindsight, looking back in

409
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:02.920
<v Speaker 2>what you're doing, what's your perspective on what happened there?

410
00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:06.119
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean Operation choke point KESS cost me a

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00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:09.599
<v Speaker 1>couple of extra years and many many millions of dollars

412
00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:15.079
<v Speaker 1>to get like finally get my my bank charter. You

413
00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:17.359
<v Speaker 1>know what I had to go through to get through it.

414
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:20.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, I feel very privileged and lucky and fortunate.

415
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:23.759
<v Speaker 1>I thank the team that I worked with, but you know,

416
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.400
<v Speaker 1>we had a lot of insiders and but even me

417
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:29.920
<v Speaker 1>who'd been a Federal Reserve regulator before, worked for years

418
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:36.039
<v Speaker 1>at Promontory, had cash, you know, promise to like not

419
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:38.200
<v Speaker 1>do a lot of things. I'm lucky that we still

420
00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:42.119
<v Speaker 1>even have running water and electricity at the bank because

421
00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:44.039
<v Speaker 1>of all the things I had to promise I wouldn't

422
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:47.519
<v Speaker 1>do before they would let me buy a bank. You know,

423
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.519
<v Speaker 1>when we tried to first do this at a state

424
00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:52.400
<v Speaker 1>charter level and had to go through the FDIC, you know,

425
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:54.319
<v Speaker 1>we had a year to close the deal. After we'd

426
00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:57.960
<v Speaker 1>reached the commercial terms. We did the pre approval process.

427
00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:00.440
<v Speaker 1>All it was was a simple change of control. In

428
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:04.359
<v Speaker 1>the entire year period, the FDIIC never even acknowledged that

429
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:07.200
<v Speaker 1>our application was complete. They just ran out the clock.

430
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:11.079
<v Speaker 1>And so Operation choke Point is running out the clock

431
00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:13.200
<v Speaker 1>on people, just give us a little bit more time.

432
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:18.480
<v Speaker 1>On the last day of my commercial terms after a year,

433
00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:23.079
<v Speaker 1>I received a letter of thirteen pages of single space

434
00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:26.680
<v Speaker 1>questions for things like well, I can't say what was

435
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:28.799
<v Speaker 1>in the letter, but that was a year endo the

436
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:31.359
<v Speaker 1>process and the application had never even been acknowledged this

437
00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:37.799
<v Speaker 1>file and so that type of coughish behavior, you know,

438
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:44.880
<v Speaker 1>really was the hallmark of the last administration. You know, again,

439
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:47.359
<v Speaker 1>I'm not really I don't talk about this from a

440
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:50.680
<v Speaker 1>political point of view, but if anybody has any question

441
00:24:50.680 --> 00:24:54.039
<v Speaker 1>as to whether Operation two point zero was real, it

442
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:57.440
<v Speaker 1>was real, and remnants of it are still out there.

443
00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:00.240
<v Speaker 1>Obviously there's been a new memo at the top to

444
00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:02.839
<v Speaker 1>knock it off, but you know, it takes a while

445
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:07.960
<v Speaker 1>for that to percolate down, and so you know, there

446
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:10.079
<v Speaker 1>are a lot of people out there still running around

447
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:15.079
<v Speaker 1>checking boxes doing risk theater compliance theater. You know, we

448
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:18.359
<v Speaker 1>haven't gotten to the point yet where real risk and

449
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:23.319
<v Speaker 1>real compliance actually catching bad guys, worrying about real consumer

450
00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:26.079
<v Speaker 1>protection as opposed to going through the motions is what

451
00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:29.599
<v Speaker 1>regulators are doing in the trenches. Look, there are some

452
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:32.559
<v Speaker 1>good regulators, but look, a lot of what's still going

453
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:36.880
<v Speaker 1>on out there is just theater, and so it will

454
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:39.480
<v Speaker 1>take time to change. I hope it does change. The

455
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:42.480
<v Speaker 1>tone at the top has changed, and they've told folks

456
00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:46.279
<v Speaker 1>to focus on real risk and allow some competition and

457
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:47.759
<v Speaker 1>innovation in the marketplace.

458
00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:51.359
<v Speaker 2>Greg, what do you think about? This is something I've

459
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:53.960
<v Speaker 2>thought about over the years, and once again putting all

460
00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:57.039
<v Speaker 2>the political stuff aside, the more I look at it,

461
00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:00.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it was a political thing Demo crawd

462
00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:04.200
<v Speaker 2>versus Republican type thing. It almost seemed like it was, Hey,

463
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:06.559
<v Speaker 2>we control the money, We're the Fed, we're the Treasury.

464
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:09.240
<v Speaker 2>We worked with the biggest banks in the world. JP Morgan,

465
00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:13.240
<v Speaker 2>and you see the tone coming from Jamie Diamond. This

466
00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:15.559
<v Speaker 2>was more of a control thing. We can't see where

467
00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:18.119
<v Speaker 2>the currency is going, as far as it going to

468
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:21.400
<v Speaker 2>stable coins, bitcoin, all coins and so forth, we're going

469
00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:24.920
<v Speaker 2>to lose control. But now that there's etf rappers, now

470
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:28.559
<v Speaker 2>that we're going to put stable coin legislation through and

471
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:32.200
<v Speaker 2>make it law, now we're easing up. And maybe the

472
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:35.480
<v Speaker 2>political show or backdrop was just theater.

473
00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Well it kind of breaks kind of strange and weird.

474
00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:43.119
<v Speaker 1>Like there's even a while back there with Jamie Diamond

475
00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:45.720
<v Speaker 1>and Elizabeth Warren we're having like a bromance getting down.

476
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:51.160
<v Speaker 1>But you know, many different bedfellows and different people defected

477
00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:54.079
<v Speaker 1>from the ranks to the Democrats at different times. We've

478
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:57.279
<v Speaker 1>seen that with tech, just depending on you know, who

479
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:01.440
<v Speaker 1>kind of put their interests ahead of their principles and whatnot.

480
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:07.880
<v Speaker 1>But there's not a clear dividing line. Obviously, clearly Republicans

481
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:14.839
<v Speaker 1>were more willing and open to basically allow innovation in crypto.

482
00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:16.279
<v Speaker 1>It didn't used to be that way. It used to

483
00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:18.920
<v Speaker 1>be kind of flipped around. People got there on the

484
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:23.359
<v Speaker 1>wrong side of receiving donations from Sam Bankman Freed. You know,

485
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:25.920
<v Speaker 1>the Democrats went like, you know, one hundred and eighty

486
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:28.039
<v Speaker 1>degrees in the other way to be anti crypto, to

487
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:31.240
<v Speaker 1>show that they were no longer like under Sam's spell.

488
00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:37.119
<v Speaker 1>So it was a sad four years and I'm glad

489
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.440
<v Speaker 1>that's in the rearview mirror, hoping for better going forward.

490
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:44.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm sort of in the political spectrum myself. You know,

491
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:47.720
<v Speaker 1>I ran for Congress last time, so I've got some

492
00:27:47.799 --> 00:27:51.720
<v Speaker 1>inside baseball insights. But I think there are good folks

493
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:55.000
<v Speaker 1>on both sides of the aisle that are actually interested

494
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:59.359
<v Speaker 1>in seeing the US be a leader. There are still some,

495
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.519
<v Speaker 1>I would consider them lutite segments that are still afraid

496
00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:06.400
<v Speaker 1>of or just think this whole thing is like smoking

497
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:09.039
<v Speaker 1>mirrors and are going to keep their foot on the break.

498
00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:12.480
<v Speaker 1>But I hope it doesn't just seesaw like four years on,

499
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:16.519
<v Speaker 1>four years off again. I personally believe this is an

500
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:19.519
<v Speaker 1>area like AI where the US could be a world leader.

501
00:28:20.119 --> 00:28:23.839
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I want there to be good regulation.

502
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:26.799
<v Speaker 1>I want there to be tough regulation, but you know,

503
00:28:28.599 --> 00:28:31.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't want I don't want to be in a

504
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.680
<v Speaker 1>Tony Soprano kind of situation anymore where it feels like

505
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:38.079
<v Speaker 1>a shakedown world. And having been on the wrong side

506
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:41.400
<v Speaker 1>of the shakedown when I was at Ripple, to you know,

507
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:46.119
<v Speaker 1>being an investor in coinbase, to like having my application

508
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:50.519
<v Speaker 1>never being acknowledged as even being filed, you know, I'm

509
00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:52.640
<v Speaker 1>ready just to roll up my sleeves and get to work.

510
00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:55.880
<v Speaker 1>And I really like the space, and I feel like

511
00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.000
<v Speaker 1>we're finally at a time where what's going to happen

512
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:01.200
<v Speaker 1>in the marketplace is going to be determined by like

513
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:05.039
<v Speaker 1>who executes, as opposed to like who's the best at

514
00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:09.559
<v Speaker 1>threading the regulatory needle. And look, I've been pretty good

515
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:12.680
<v Speaker 1>at threading that regulatory needle, but I don't think that

516
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:18.559
<v Speaker 1>should be the highest that that shouldn't be what determines

517
00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:21.319
<v Speaker 1>success in this There's a lot of other people that

518
00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:25.680
<v Speaker 1>are really good at building products and operating you know,

519
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:29.279
<v Speaker 1>value add for for customers and businesses and stuff. And

520
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:32.359
<v Speaker 1>it's sort of sad that you know you have to

521
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:35.960
<v Speaker 1>be like you know, an insider to even get a

522
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:37.720
<v Speaker 1>seat at the table to play in this game.

523
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:41.880
<v Speaker 2>So are you anticipating that we see a boom in

524
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:45.359
<v Speaker 2>innovation and building capital coming back to the United States,

525
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:49.720
<v Speaker 2>companies feeling less afraid right, no more in regulation by

526
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:54.599
<v Speaker 2>enforcement because we're going to have a better sec CFTC H.

527
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:56.759
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you got a White House cryptos Are you

528
00:29:56.839 --> 00:29:59.680
<v Speaker 2>get a Secretary treasure of the Treasury who's pro crypto?

529
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:01.839
<v Speaker 2>All these people are pro cryptona.

530
00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:05.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, the boom is already on. The boom is definitely

531
00:30:05.240 --> 00:30:08.039
<v Speaker 1>on right here. And I was at it for twenty eighteen,

532
00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:10.920
<v Speaker 1>it was again in twenty twenty one. I'm sure there'll

533
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:13.880
<v Speaker 1>be another bus. There'll be a big shakeout. Like there's

534
00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:17.160
<v Speaker 1>a gazillion people that are working on like stable groin

535
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:20.200
<v Speaker 1>stable cooin integration. We're putting a couple of bets in

536
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:23.200
<v Speaker 1>on that. But you know, it's like any gold rush,

537
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.279
<v Speaker 1>it's going to be it's going to overshoot and come back.

538
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Question is I you know, is that going to come

539
00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:32.200
<v Speaker 1>back later this year? Is it next year? But you know,

540
00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:34.519
<v Speaker 1>we're in it for the long haul, and so we

541
00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:37.640
<v Speaker 1>try not to get buffeted by these up and down cycles.

542
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:41.079
<v Speaker 1>But it is party on right now. People are really

543
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:45.880
<v Speaker 1>really psyched and are integrating stable coin solutions token I

544
00:30:46.039 --> 00:30:48.960
<v Speaker 1>solutions at a breathtaking pace. Yeah.

545
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:50.559
<v Speaker 2>So on that note, you know, with the boom and

546
00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:52.920
<v Speaker 2>bus cycles, do you foresee there's going to be some

547
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:55.279
<v Speaker 2>consolidation with the stable coin market because it seems like

548
00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:58.559
<v Speaker 2>everyone is launching a stablecoin, even Ripple as you know

549
00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:02.160
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned you were. There's so many people doing it now.

550
00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:04.759
<v Speaker 1>I mean there's two different arguments. It's it's kind of

551
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:07.319
<v Speaker 1>like there is an argument why there could be like

552
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:09.839
<v Speaker 1>a gazillion stable coins, which is kind of I call

553
00:31:09.880 --> 00:31:12.720
<v Speaker 1>it the wooden nickel argument, Like you go to every

554
00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:15.119
<v Speaker 1>carnival and they each have their own wooden nickel. Of

555
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:17.720
<v Speaker 1>course you can't use the wooden nickel across the carnivals,

556
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:20.559
<v Speaker 1>and so there'll be a bunch of that wooden nickel

557
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:25.759
<v Speaker 1>stable coin ism and that'll keep a lot of people busy.

558
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:27.960
<v Speaker 1>But that's like, to me, a lot of little copy

559
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.359
<v Speaker 1>serves and aol. So the big game out there, and

560
00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:35.680
<v Speaker 1>really why we call it USBC versus us DC is

561
00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:38.039
<v Speaker 1>a swing for the fences to make the US dollar

562
00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:41.400
<v Speaker 1>the ubiquitous form of payment. The star trek kind of

563
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:46.480
<v Speaker 1>payment at a global level that works locally, and it's

564
00:31:46.519 --> 00:31:50.759
<v Speaker 1>going to be kind of like Glengarry Glenn Ross. There's

565
00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:53.839
<v Speaker 1>like you, first place is a Cadillac, second place is

566
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:57.079
<v Speaker 1>steak knives, and third third place use you're fired, right.

567
00:31:57.599 --> 00:32:01.079
<v Speaker 1>So I do believe there'll be some you know, some

568
00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:04.559
<v Speaker 1>consolidation at that unless unless some of these tokens get

569
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:09.720
<v Speaker 1>some specialized you know, niche, there probably will be one

570
00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:12.960
<v Speaker 1>stable coin that's really good for everything that likes to

571
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:16.880
<v Speaker 1>be done without identity. It's a little bit you know,

572
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:18.799
<v Speaker 1>because there's a lot of stuff in the world that

573
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:22.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to call it, like you know, shady

574
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:26.000
<v Speaker 1>stuff in sunny places. There's a demand for that. But

575
00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:28.519
<v Speaker 1>you know, the question is who's going to be the

576
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:34.160
<v Speaker 1>compliance solution that's integrated, you know, in the commercial realm

577
00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:39.200
<v Speaker 1>for consumers and businesses. That mantle is still to be taken.

578
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:43.279
<v Speaker 1>I think USDC has the lead there. We're obviously looking

579
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:47.000
<v Speaker 1>at coming in that with a different vector and and

580
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:49.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, other folks, the paypals, the ripples of the

581
00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:51.559
<v Speaker 1>world that a lot of other folks are going to

582
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:54.039
<v Speaker 1>kind of try to be like, you know, grab that

583
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:56.559
<v Speaker 1>one percent, but like I'm not in that grab one

584
00:32:56.599 --> 00:32:59.519
<v Speaker 1>percent kind of world. I'm in the I'm in the

585
00:32:59.559 --> 00:33:03.079
<v Speaker 1>Catalyz versus stake lives fight. That's how I see it

586
00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:03.960
<v Speaker 1>for sure.

587
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:06.599
<v Speaker 2>Well you probably can't answer this, but you know, are

588
00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:11.720
<v Speaker 2>you guys looking at possible acquisitions of some of these players,

589
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:16.359
<v Speaker 2>even if we startups building certain stable coin infrastructure or

590
00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:17.960
<v Speaker 2>payment solutions and things like that.

591
00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:24.720
<v Speaker 1>Well absolutely, either either acquisitions or investments or having options.

592
00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:29.599
<v Speaker 1>USBC will go public this year as a reverse merger.

593
00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:32.119
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of a boring way to go public. You

594
00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:35.359
<v Speaker 1>just buy a public company. We will be funded with bitcoin.

595
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:37.960
<v Speaker 1>Oddly enough, I think kind of crazy thing that you're

596
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:40.920
<v Speaker 1>actually going to fund it with bitcoin. We're not spending

597
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:45.039
<v Speaker 1>the bitcoin, that's just the capital base and the you know,

598
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:48.799
<v Speaker 1>the goal will be to basically use that public company

599
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:54.160
<v Speaker 1>stock for acquisitions when necessary or to pay options. That

600
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:56.279
<v Speaker 1>is the vehicle. The reason to be a public company.

601
00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:59.240
<v Speaker 1>I think USDC will through Circle will go public this

602
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:03.359
<v Speaker 1>year is people want the transparency, so we want the scrutiny,

603
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:05.759
<v Speaker 1>we want to be audited. We want to show that

604
00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:09.159
<v Speaker 1>we're on the up and up. But USBC, remember it's

605
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:11.400
<v Speaker 1>not the bank, it is the scheme. You can think

606
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:14.199
<v Speaker 1>of it as as like a new form of visa.

607
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:17.800
<v Speaker 1>And so that's the entity that should be the public

608
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:21.480
<v Speaker 1>entity that receives the scrutiny. Whether that invests in or

609
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:28.400
<v Speaker 1>partners with banks, with market makers, with ledger, companies, with

610
00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:32.800
<v Speaker 1>identity credential providers, all those will be part of the

611
00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:35.519
<v Speaker 1>eCos not clear that they need to be acquired, but

612
00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:38.159
<v Speaker 1>they need to be part of the ecosystem. We always

613
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:41.800
<v Speaker 1>talk ecosystem and having taken a company public before, where

614
00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:45.360
<v Speaker 1>I bought sixty two companies in nine months. What a

615
00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:49.559
<v Speaker 1>pain in the ass actually owning stuff. It sucks, man.

616
00:34:49.719 --> 00:34:54.719
<v Speaker 1>So it's much better to have just APIs and aligned

617
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:57.239
<v Speaker 1>incentives because otherwise you feel like you got to put

618
00:34:57.239 --> 00:34:59.280
<v Speaker 1>a suit on and it takes all the fun and

619
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:01.440
<v Speaker 1>joy out of out of doing this stuff.

620
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Question on wallet support, tell us a bit about what

621
00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:08.000
<v Speaker 2>you're doing there and plans to get other walls to

622
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:11.639
<v Speaker 2>support and eventually with the repeal it solable on one

623
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:13.119
<v Speaker 2>to one and all these things that are happening in

624
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:17.280
<v Speaker 2>the banking industry opening up. Could we see in banking

625
00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:20.760
<v Speaker 2>apps the ability to move stable coins, supporting USBC and

626
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:21.679
<v Speaker 2>other things.

627
00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:25.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the whole goal here. And it's really not difference

628
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:30.039
<v Speaker 1>between USDC or USBC is it's your coin, right, It's

629
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:33.559
<v Speaker 1>not your coin at this custodian or that custodian. I mean,

630
00:35:33.559 --> 00:35:35.840
<v Speaker 1>you can have your money at a custodian or you

631
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:39.840
<v Speaker 1>can just have it self custodically and then it can

632
00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:43.079
<v Speaker 1>appear just like USDC can appear in a MetaMask wallet.

633
00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:44.840
<v Speaker 1>It ought to be able to appear in a Wells

634
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.119
<v Speaker 1>Fargo wallet if they want to let you do that,

635
00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:52.079
<v Speaker 1>and the same thing in a square cash wallet or

636
00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:55.440
<v Speaker 1>a Venmo wallet. And so those all those wallets are

637
00:35:55.480 --> 00:35:57.639
<v Speaker 1>going to have to decide do they want to be

638
00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:01.719
<v Speaker 1>exclusionary and not let you see your stable coins or

639
00:36:01.719 --> 00:36:05.280
<v Speaker 1>your deposit tokens because they want to push theirs, or

640
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:07.679
<v Speaker 1>they want to be inclusive. And you saw this battle

641
00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:13.280
<v Speaker 1>play out when when Financed for a while kicked USDC

642
00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:16.599
<v Speaker 1>off their platform, right they wanted people to use their

643
00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:19.880
<v Speaker 1>stable coin. And that's that's kind of a channel conflict.

644
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:23.960
<v Speaker 1>We won't be in that channel conflict. We're we're like, hey,

645
00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:27.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, we're doing the coin, you know, comparing any

646
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:31.119
<v Speaker 1>wallet you know up to you. You know, we don't

647
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:34.559
<v Speaker 1>care what else is in the wallet user choice, right,

648
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:38.599
<v Speaker 1>and so in this world wallets might have some of

649
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:42.679
<v Speaker 1>the money being held by that wallet company custodially, but

650
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:47.000
<v Speaker 1>the question is will they support other non custodial sources

651
00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:50.719
<v Speaker 1>of assets, including stable coins and deposit tokens. We hope

652
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:53.280
<v Speaker 1>they will. We think that if they don't, they'll be

653
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:55.679
<v Speaker 1>kind of lame, and that everyone will be forced to

654
00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:59.639
<v Speaker 1>basically let you see your money wherever you use it,

655
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:04.199
<v Speaker 1>whether it's in a wallet, a marketplace, could be a metaverse,

656
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:08.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, could be a remittance company. It's your money,

657
00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:13.360
<v Speaker 1>it should appear and go wherever you go. Yeah.

658
00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, I wanted to get your thoughts on the SEC.

659
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:20.199
<v Speaker 2>Obviously there's a regime change. The Crypto Task Force has

660
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:23.199
<v Speaker 2>been formed hester PURSS leading that, and we seem to

661
00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:25.880
<v Speaker 2>have more friendliness coming up from the SEC. Do you

662
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:31.119
<v Speaker 2>anticipate that cases against coinbase and binance and these things

663
00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:35.239
<v Speaker 2>will be thrown out? Non fraud cases, ripple settlement public

664
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:37.559
<v Speaker 2>coming in the works. What do you think those things

665
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:38.360
<v Speaker 2>will happen this year?

666
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:42.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I've never understood why if you have a problem

667
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:46.960
<v Speaker 1>with somebody's practice and it isn't like fraud, just go

668
00:37:47.079 --> 00:37:49.599
<v Speaker 1>in and say like you know, let's have a conversation.

669
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:53.519
<v Speaker 1>The conversations don't have to be like, oh, mister Koshogi,

670
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:55.440
<v Speaker 1>come on in and pick up a wedding license and

671
00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:57.960
<v Speaker 1>then you come out chopped up in pieces. And so

672
00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:02.000
<v Speaker 1>that approach the disc work between the regulators and the

673
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:06.880
<v Speaker 1>innovators is to me, you know, fearful and ridiculous, but

674
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:10.400
<v Speaker 1>it has characterized sort of our country's behavior for some

675
00:38:10.519 --> 00:38:13.239
<v Speaker 1>period of time. So I do believe there will be

676
00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:18.280
<v Speaker 1>coordination collaboration between the regulation. I want the regulators to

677
00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:24.119
<v Speaker 1>be tough on fraud and root that out. But if

678
00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:26.280
<v Speaker 1>people are just trying to do things right and there's

679
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:30.360
<v Speaker 1>a market problem or a structuring problem, let's have rules

680
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:34.760
<v Speaker 1>right and regulations and we can have a public policy debate,

681
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:39.320
<v Speaker 1>like we can decide for stable coins whether states should

682
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:42.840
<v Speaker 1>be able to license those rather than just the federal government,

683
00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:46.039
<v Speaker 1>and we can decide at ten billion dollars, you get

684
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:48.679
<v Speaker 1>both a federal regulator in addition to a state regular

685
00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:52.119
<v Speaker 1>that's just you know, intelligent people can disagree on those points,

686
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:56.159
<v Speaker 1>but those should be resolved through just like negotiations. And

687
00:38:56.199 --> 00:38:58.599
<v Speaker 1>Congress should do its job, and it's doing its job

688
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:02.719
<v Speaker 1>right now in this regard and not like in court

689
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:06.079
<v Speaker 1>through like you know, reading the fine print and trying

690
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.519
<v Speaker 1>to dage like a rock fell on his head so

691
00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:10.840
<v Speaker 1>it might fall on ours. Maybe we shouldn't do that,

692
00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:15.239
<v Speaker 1>Like that's a ridiculous way to actually run a country.

693
00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:20.000
<v Speaker 1>And we've seen the results in terms of retarding innovation

694
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:24.679
<v Speaker 1>and leadership that we experienced during the last administration for

695
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:25.280
<v Speaker 1>doing that.

696
00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:28.840
<v Speaker 2>Do you think we're going to get more all cots

697
00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:33.679
<v Speaker 2>XRP Solana, Some of these ETFs filings have been piling up.

698
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:37.000
<v Speaker 2>We got bigcoin in e theorem, of course, hoping Howdy

699
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:38.039
<v Speaker 2>gets steaking as well.

700
00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:41.800
<v Speaker 1>I have no idea why there would not be you know,

701
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:45.199
<v Speaker 1>a Salona ETF or a x r P e TF.

702
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:48.559
<v Speaker 1>I mean it just it. At some point, you know,

703
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:51.440
<v Speaker 1>you're pretty too far down the you know, far down

704
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:55.559
<v Speaker 1>the map. But absolutely right.

705
00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:01.119
<v Speaker 2>Bitcoin reserve. Yes, a lot of states throwing their hat

706
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:04.559
<v Speaker 2>in the ring. Federal level. We have a bill. Do

707
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:07.440
<v Speaker 2>you think that happens this cycle? Or maybe I have

708
00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:10.360
<v Speaker 2>the theory that they approve it. But it's not necessarily

709
00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:12.360
<v Speaker 2>to start buying right away, but just holding on to

710
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:15.239
<v Speaker 2>the two hundred thousand plus bitcoin you already have in custody.

711
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:17.840
<v Speaker 1>I think there's a strong chance that they'll get the

712
00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:20.920
<v Speaker 1>foundation in. Like, people can argue about the number, but

713
00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:24.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's hard for people. I mean, people will

714
00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:29.039
<v Speaker 1>argue that the government shouldn't own any bitcoin. But to me,

715
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:32.800
<v Speaker 1>even if you you know, even if you're not a

716
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Michael Sayer fan, you got to acknowledge that from just

717
00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:38.440
<v Speaker 1>from a risk point of view, do you really want

718
00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:41.440
<v Speaker 1>to be like, have none of this asset. It's like,

719
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:44.880
<v Speaker 1>it's one thing to say you're betting on bitcoin, it's

720
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:47.679
<v Speaker 1>another thing to say you're betting against bitcoin. So betting

721
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:50.559
<v Speaker 1>against bitcoin is kind of like going short on game stop.

722
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:55.519
<v Speaker 1>And I would not if I was the government sell

723
00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:59.920
<v Speaker 1>down my position. I do believe that bitcoin is probably

724
00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:07.159
<v Speaker 1>the best hedge against inflation and rampant government spending. You know,

725
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:09.760
<v Speaker 1>gold's done pretty well too, But but bitcoin is just

726
00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:14.159
<v Speaker 1>it's got its advantages and stuff. So I tell people

727
00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:16.599
<v Speaker 1>it's a risk to not have any bitcoin. I'm not

728
00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:20.280
<v Speaker 1>telling people to put, you know, fifty or even five

729
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:24.480
<v Speaker 1>percent of their wealth into into bitcoin, but to have

730
00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:27.480
<v Speaker 1>none at all, I don't know. In a mad Max world,

731
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:30.400
<v Speaker 1>you probably need canned food and bullets and stuff like that.

732
00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:33.119
<v Speaker 1>So probably have a little bitcoin on the shelf.

733
00:41:33.880 --> 00:41:37.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely definitely agree with you there. And there's talks

734
00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:40.880
<v Speaker 2>of possibly, you know, as rumors, but crypto stockpile, not

735
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:43.480
<v Speaker 2>just bitcoin but a bunch of different digits.

736
00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the same thing. I mean, like, you know, you

737
00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:48.039
<v Speaker 1>don't want to just have peas, you might want to

738
00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:50.639
<v Speaker 1>have some corn and Brussels sprouts as well, So I

739
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:56.360
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't you know, I'm not a bitcoin maximalist, but but

740
00:41:56.440 --> 00:41:59.079
<v Speaker 1>I you know, I do have I do have some

741
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:01.880
<v Speaker 1>bitcoin down there in my in my cellar, right so,

742
00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:07.760
<v Speaker 1>but you know I have the others as well, so

743
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:12.639
<v Speaker 1>that that's me. I'm not giving investment advice here, but

744
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:14.760
<v Speaker 1>I like gold coins.

745
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Too for sure. So Greg, I got to ask you

746
00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:21.280
<v Speaker 2>about this. I wish I didn't have to, but mean coins,

747
00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:24.880
<v Speaker 2>it's madness right now. I have a love hate relationship.

748
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:27.559
<v Speaker 2>I believe in the free market, but I believe there

749
00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:29.400
<v Speaker 2>needs to be some sort of guardrail because people are

750
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:31.840
<v Speaker 2>getting rugged. What are your thoughts on how does mean

751
00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:32.800
<v Speaker 2>coin crazy?

752
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:38.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, to me, it's just silly stuff, and you know,

753
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:44.800
<v Speaker 1>like it is, it's, uh, you know, a Greater Fools

754
00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:47.679
<v Speaker 1>type type theory stuff. And if you want to spend

755
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:49.559
<v Speaker 1>some of your life on that. To me, that's like

756
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:53.440
<v Speaker 1>just uh, you know, betting on the ponies and stuff

757
00:42:53.480 --> 00:43:01.440
<v Speaker 1>like that. And and so I have some regulation, but

758
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:03.119
<v Speaker 1>at the end of the day, a fool and his

759
00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:06.840
<v Speaker 1>money quickly parted, and and and But the point is

760
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:09.480
<v Speaker 1>with meme coins is did you have fun doing it right? Like?

761
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:11.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, It's like what I said when I you know,

762
00:43:12.679 --> 00:43:15.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, when I did business in Russia, I was

763
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:17.920
<v Speaker 1>like lost all my clothes and lost all my money,

764
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:19.519
<v Speaker 1>but had a lot of fun doing it right. So

765
00:43:19.679 --> 00:43:22.519
<v Speaker 1>you just got to know what you're getting into when

766
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:23.360
<v Speaker 1>you're getting into it.

767
00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would prefer to go to Vegas to get

768
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:28.679
<v Speaker 2>some free drinks and maybe some nice girls walking around,

769
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:35.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, versus But it's the same thing, right it is.

770
00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:39.880
<v Speaker 1>But but you know, people like that stuff, and like I,

771
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:43.519
<v Speaker 1>you know, I I watch people just do all their

772
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:46.119
<v Speaker 1>money in the slots. But but look, I play poker,

773
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:49.480
<v Speaker 1>so we all have our vices, you know, we know,

774
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:53.599
<v Speaker 1>like just in moderation, right, So appreciate I hope. I

775
00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:57.039
<v Speaker 1>hope people don't lose their life savings on meme coins.

776
00:43:57.079 --> 00:43:59.679
<v Speaker 1>And to me, it's really not that different than just

777
00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:06.679
<v Speaker 1>people buying lottery tickets and do another just wasting time

778
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:08.920
<v Speaker 1>and money in their life, and that's a great thing

779
00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:09.760
<v Speaker 1>about being alive.

780
00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure, Greg, great stuff. I'm excited for the future.

781
00:44:16.360 --> 00:44:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Updates are on USBC and one it goes fully deposit

782
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:23.639
<v Speaker 2>token status, we'll have to have you back on to

783
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:26.239
<v Speaker 2>and talk a bit about some of that stuff, but

784
00:44:26.519 --> 00:44:27.639
<v Speaker 2>thank you so much for joining me.

785
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:29.800
<v Speaker 1>Sure, in the meantime you can just hold it as

786
00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:31.920
<v Speaker 1>a stable coin and just earn some yield on it.

787
00:44:32.119 --> 00:44:34.599
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's not the most exciting thing around, but

788
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:38.119
<v Speaker 1>it is. You know, it's better yield than most stable coins,

789
00:44:38.119 --> 00:44:40.519
<v Speaker 1>so just keep that in mind for sure.