WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.520 Before we dive in, here's another show you can enjoy 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:05.960 in the True Story FM Family of Entertainment podcast, Hey 3 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:08.240 there are True Believers. Andy Nelson here from the Marvel 4 00:00:08.279 --> 00:00:10.759 Movie Minute Podcast with the rest of the team, mate Wright, 5 00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:12.279 Kyle Wilson. 6 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:14.080 Rob Cabosco, and Matthew Fox. 7 00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:17.039 This is the podcast where we dissect the Marvel Cinematic 8 00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:20.359 Universe one minute at a time, exploring every detail of 9 00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:22.640 this epic superhero franchise. 10 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:25.640 From the nods to the comics to the electrifying performances. 11 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:29.120 We've had a blast diving into every aspect of the MCU. 12 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:32.159 Right from the start, we're talking about them having to 13 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:34.920 earn their wizards, and I think we've made a good 14 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:38.079 argument that they do. We have our favorite recurring bits 15 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:41.399 like five stars or spar because every character deserves their 16 00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:42.439 moments in the spotlight. 17 00:00:42.799 --> 00:00:45.359 Oh, Kyle, you know, speaking of spotlights, did you know 18 00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:49.880 that the term advertisement actually comes from the Latin advertire, 19 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:54.119 meaning to turn toward. That's exactly the kind of fascinating 20 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:56.399 detail we love to uncover on the show. 21 00:00:56.560 --> 00:00:59.240 But it's not all trivia and recurring bits. We also 22 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:02.119 dive deep into the ethico dilemmas our hero's face. Lowki 23 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:05.319 alone provides enough material for a whole season on Superhero Morality, 24 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:07.319 not to mention that I can't wait till we get 25 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:08.000 to Civil War. 26 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:09.000 In our season. 27 00:01:09.079 --> 00:01:10.599 Looking at Ironman three, we're. 28 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:11.439 Gonna mix things up a bit. 29 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:13.760 That's right, Rob and I are your guide, but instead 30 00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:16.319 of our usual minute by minute format, we dive into 31 00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:18.920 five minutes of the film in each weekly episode. 32 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:21.920 It's a totally new approach, but one that still allows 33 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:25.000 us to explore all the depth and detail that makes 34 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:28.719 these movies so special, even if Ironman three isn't all 35 00:01:29.079 --> 00:01:29.879 that's special. 36 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:34.680 Hold on, that's where you're wrong, extremists, Shane. 37 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:37.120 Black, Yeah, would you like to look at the Mandarin? 38 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:38.079 And Maya Hanson? 39 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:43.079 So, whether you're a diehard Marvel fan or just love 40 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:47.280 deep dives into movies, there's something for everyone on Marvel 41 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:47.879 Movie Minute. 42 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:50.560 Dude up and join us on this epic audio adventure. 43 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:53.319 You can find us a true story dot FM or 44 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:56.040 by searching Marvel Movie Minute on your favorite podcatcher. 45 00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:59.439 Because in the Marvel Cinematic universe, every minute is packed 46 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:00.000 with excitement. 47 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:03.599 Enough said, I hope you like Mustard Bye. 48 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:11.520 Ever, wonder where the devil got his horns? 49 00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:13.319 How about those clove and hoovers for that pitch for 50 00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:14.520 it an angel? 51 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:15.479 No, he was a snake. 52 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:18.479 No, he's the great red drag. No, he's the beast. 53 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:21.400 He's the Prince of this world, Prince of Darkness, believes 54 00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:24.319 the Prince of dark Good Morning, Star lovelyi'es One of 55 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:25.599 my names is Lester Ryan. 56 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:27.759 Clark, and I sometimes go by Keenan Dias and. 57 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:30.879 We're the hosts of the brand new podcast The Devil's Details. 58 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:33.159 What comes to mind when I say Lucifer? 59 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:35.319 How about Satan? What about just the Devil? 60 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:37.560 How did the big bad of the Western world end 61 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:40.960 up with so many faces? Join us as we dig up, decipher, 62 00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:43.719 and deconstruct the Devil's many forms throughout history. 63 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:46.319 Take a guided tour with Dante through the Nine Circles 64 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:46.840 of Hell. 65 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:50.240 Or revisit Satan's angsty bad boy years in Paradise Loss. 66 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:53.400 Learn the ins and outs of a Faustian contract. 67 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:54.400 Easier than a ten ninety nine, but with a hell 68 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:55.439 of a lot more fine Prince. 69 00:02:55.479 --> 00:02:58.360 Slither on over to The Devil's Details on True Story 70 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:00.840 FM and join us in the Die of Discussion. 71 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:03.560 Love and His is wah, didn't Alphatino play him in 72 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:03.800 a movie? 73 00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:04.400 Sure, there wasn't. 74 00:03:04.439 --> 00:03:07.000 Robert didn't. Theres one that was Elizabeth. 75 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:08.560 He go down to Georgia and some. 76 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:23.520 Hello and welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. Friends say, 77 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:25.560 we're bringing an episode that was actually intended to go 78 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:28.639 out a few weeks earlier, around the time of Thanksgiving 79 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:30.680 here in the United States. We had a couple of 80 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:33.039 technical delays on my part, so it's a little bit 81 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:35.479 past topic, but we still think it's something that's relevant 82 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:38.000 and we want to talk about, and that's a topic 83 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:43.520 of indigenous Native representation in the stories we love. Riki 84 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:45.319 has been trying for a little while to get me 85 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:48.080 to watch the movie Pray, a movie that I was 86 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:50.680 a lot more interested in kind of the fact that 87 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:53.039 existed than the movie itself. And I'll talk more about 88 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:56.960 that as we get into it and our discussion of 89 00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:59.439 that movie, which, for those who don't know, it is 90 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:02.120 a a Predator style movie. It's very much in the 91 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:05.000 It is a part of the Predator franchise with very 92 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:09.360 much a Predator character, but it's set in what would 93 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:12.479 become the United States that at that point, the native 94 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:15.680 territories that the French were starting to encroach on in 95 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:21.240 the seventeen sixties. And and most of the cast and crew, 96 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:24.560 and most of the cast and and people worked on 97 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:28.279 the movie are themselves Native and and so we're going 98 00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:29.959 to talk about that. We're also going to talk about 99 00:04:29.959 --> 00:04:33.560 some other instances of Native American representation and movies, both 100 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:37.560 good and bad, including Dances with Wolves, which is a 101 00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:42.279 prettyseminal work in terms of like a marker of you know, 102 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:45.079 how was representation like at the time that that movie 103 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:46.720 was made in the eighties. And we'll talk about that 104 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:47.879 and the good and the bad and some of the 105 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:50.600 other things that came around it. But Ricky, let me 106 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:52.319 just start by giving you a chance to say hello 107 00:04:52.360 --> 00:04:54.639 and then asking you kind of why was Pray a 108 00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:56.480 movie you were so excited for me to watch and 109 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:56.920 talk about? 110 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:04.000 Well, hello, Matthew and listeners. Yeah, I mean for me personally, 111 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:10.279 I love horror as a genre, and the Predator franchise 112 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:15.959 is a science fiction horrorcore and I've been watching these 113 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:20.839 movies for a while and then mostly aren't good, especially 114 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:24.360 when when you get into the crossover Alien Aliens versus Predator. 115 00:05:25.319 --> 00:05:28.680 Prey is arguably. 116 00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:32.600 The best movie in the franchise, you'd have to put 117 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:36.800 it up against the original Predator, and it shares like 118 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:40.360 a mood to it, yeah, right, whereas a lot of 119 00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:44.600 the other ones just become gunfests and stuff. There's a real, 120 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:49.759 like one v one like warrior battle element to Prey 121 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:52.040 and the original Predator, you know, once you get down 122 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:57.079 to just Arnold Schwarzenegger, right, and so, like I watched 123 00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:01.040 it as a Predator franchise movie, I was like, oh, 124 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:04.759 like this, this is like taking the franchise back in 125 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:07.399 a good way in my opinion. And then on top 126 00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:14.800 of that, the way that they presented the protagonist and 127 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:19.240 the way that it's just feels genuine, I think is 128 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:21.639 what really struck me. 129 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:25.600 Yeah, I definitely hear that. I want to talk about 130 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:27.319 those elements. I'll just start by saying a little bit 131 00:06:27.319 --> 00:06:30.680 about the movie myself. I think I was able to 132 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:33.800 watch this and go a this is one of the 133 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:38.720 best examples I think of this genre, not just Predator itself, 134 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:42.120 but the whole like, you know, a single monster against 135 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:45.759 a single you know, protagonist chasing each other through through 136 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:50.079 an environment. And I'm so happy it got made and 137 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:53.160 I'm so happy for the incredible representation and answer what 138 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:56.399 that means for Hollywood. And I still don't like Predator movies, 139 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:58.519 because I got to the end of it and I 140 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:01.600 was like, that's it was like if someone made like 141 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:04.600 the absolute best cream of mushroom soup that you could imagine. 142 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:07.680 I would admire the cookery, I would admire how good 143 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:09.879 everything is, and I still wouldn't like cream of mushroom soup. 144 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:13.959 But I think I was able to really appreciate, like, oh, Okay, 145 00:07:13.959 --> 00:07:16.560 they're doing these things with the genre that I think 146 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:19.959 you're right both really honor the genre and and don't 147 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:22.519 change it, but also say like, look, if this is 148 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:27.040 about an alien, aliens would have come to indigenous peoples 149 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:31.759 as well, you know, certainly in our own mythos of 150 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:34.560 like you know, there's lots of Native communities that have 151 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:37.680 myths of beings from other worlds that come. It's not 152 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:39.639 just like white people or you know, whatever it is 153 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:44.480 that have those kind of ideas. So yeah, I'm and 154 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:46.439 we're not here to talk about the quality of the movie. 155 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:48.519 I think I can easily acknowledge that, Like I think 156 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:52.439 the acting, the cinematography, the way the drama was done 157 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:55.120 is far better than any of the movie is probably 158 00:07:55.160 --> 00:07:57.839 including the Arnold one, although that does have a special 159 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:00.279 place in my heart, both because in Arnold Schwartzen and 160 00:08:00.439 --> 00:08:02.600 Carl Weathers and as someone who was a lover of 161 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.279 the Box the Rocky movies. That was kind of the 162 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:08.439 merger of my two favorite you know, steroid laden men 163 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:11.319 with incredible muscles movie franchises. 164 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:16.240 And the classic arm clasp that has been memified, and 165 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:18.959 I think a lot of people don't even recognize or 166 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:21.319 remember that that's where for a while, like I didn't. 167 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:22.759 I was like, wait a minute, what is this from? 168 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:25.839 Like this is familiar, and there's a scene where Arnold 169 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:30.319 and Carl Weathers clasp their arms in greeting, and yeah, 170 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:33.399 and that has become the iconic image. 171 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:36.440 Yeah, that's funny. I didn't even realize that it is 172 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:39.240 from this, but you're right, And i'ld say one of 173 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:41.120 the things I think is a little bit ironic because 174 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:43.519 actually on a different podcast that talked about the Original 175 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:45.559 Predator a couple of months ago, I think here on 176 00:08:45.639 --> 00:08:50.639 the it was the Next Real Film podcast, that original 177 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:53.000 movie does something that is kind of like it is 178 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:57.039 very cynical but kind of brilliant of Hollywood in that 179 00:08:57.559 --> 00:08:59.799 they do want to have a big gun fest, and 180 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:03.639 they do want to have, you know, our American heroes 181 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:07.320 going and killing the commies. But also this was the 182 00:09:07.399 --> 00:09:09.480 late eighties when we're supposed to maybe not be so 183 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:12.720 quite gung ho about it. So forgive me spoilers for 184 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:17.120 a movie that's forty years old, thirty years old. There's 185 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:20.879 an early scene in which the heroes go and because 186 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:23.279 they're supposed to be an American basically like gi you know, 187 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:30.159 commando unit, and utterly wipe out this community of locals. 188 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:32.080 And I don't think they ever quite tell you what 189 00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:35.799 Latin American probably Central American nation it is. But this 190 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.200 is at a time when US troops were fighting in Honduras, 191 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:43.039 in Guatemala, in Nicaragua, in Panama, like, so it is 192 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:44.840 one of those places probably, and it may will be 193 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:48.440 that they identify it. I don't remember. And so you 194 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:50.759 get the scene of kind of horrific slaughter that probably 195 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:52.360 is an eight year old. I was like, yeah, yeah, 196 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:56.720 that's great. And then later we realized that the the 197 00:09:57.080 --> 00:10:01.639 Carl Weather's character is a CIA operative who actually had 198 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:05.759 fooled Arnold Schwarzenegger into thinking that these were communists, and 199 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:08.559 actually it was just like a Native community in this 200 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:12.960 Latin American country that wasn't fully on board with what 201 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:15.039 the right wing government was doing or some it was 202 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:17.600 some kind of political machinations. So you both got to 203 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:20.440 have the look, let's cheer as the Americans go and 204 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:23.080 shoot them all up, but then have the moral purity 205 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:26.000 of oh but no, actually this was American CIA doing 206 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:29.440 bad things, so it's okay. So I just wanted to 207 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:33.200 gott to ethically highlight that, both because of the hypocrisy 208 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:35.600 there and the citicism, but also because it was almost 209 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:37.559 I don't think it's ever named, but that was almost 210 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:40.519 definitely a native, like an indigenous community within the Latin 211 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:47.759 American country that gets slaughtered. So, pulling us back to 212 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:52.399 the movie Prey itself, let's talk about the representation. Tell 213 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:54.159 us more about kind of like who is who is 214 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:57.360 the protagonist and and what went into making this movie. 215 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:04.159 Yeah, so the main protagonist, the character's name is Nauru 216 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:09.960 and she is played by Amber mid Thunder, who is 217 00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:14.159 already maybe or is on the verge of stardom. She 218 00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:20.320 was also in the Avatar live action as the Princess 219 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:24.240 of the North, and I think she's in She's in 220 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:26.639 a bunch of upcoming projects and it just seems like 221 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:29.840 on the verge again, like if not already a star 222 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:34.799 and absolutely like this. This movie Prey was released in 223 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:40.559 twenty twenty two and I think has really put her 224 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:45.759 on the map. The other primary actor is Dakota Beavers, 225 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:53.519 who plays Tabi, her brother, and there are a bunch 226 00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:59.000 of other and they are both Native American. 227 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:03.840 People. Let me see, I have the specific so. 228 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:07.159 Command they're both part of the Commanche nation. 229 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:12.399 The characters, yeah, the characters are Commanchi, Ambram, mid Thunder 230 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:19.240 is listed is a bunch of things, primarily Navajo, because like. 231 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.240 This heritage is like not just a set. 232 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:27.120 Try right, Like there's at this point because of what 233 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:29.480 has happened historically, there's been a lot of crossover. 234 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:31.960 Dakode of Beavers is. 235 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:38.600 Okay O Wingey Pueblo, and I hope I have pronounced 236 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:39.679 that accurately. 237 00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:44.120 And then the other. 238 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:46.759 Important person I think in all of this is one 239 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:50.840 of the producers of the movie. Jane Myers is Commanchi 240 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:53.840 and Blackfoot, and I feel like her role in this 241 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:59.679 is as important as the performers, if not more so, 242 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:04.720 just just from a like authenticity standpoint, right, Like she 243 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:11.440 was there to make sure that everything looked right, sounded right, 244 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:16.000 that it was authentic to like the commanche experience right, 245 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:20.080 and put you know, if she wasn't aware herself, like 246 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:25.080 putting the the people in charge, like in touch with people. 247 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:29.840 And I believe this was filmed in Central Canada on 248 00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:34.559 native land there and they they went through the proper 249 00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:38.120 steps and honored the people in the land and did 250 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:42.399 a commencement upon starting the filming. So like all of that, right, 251 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:46.759 like showing respect to the people that you're portraying, I 252 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:51.240 think is as important to the process as like using 253 00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:53.720 native representation in the cast. 254 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:57.480 I think that is so important, especially because not only 255 00:13:57.559 --> 00:13:59.720 is this about like it's one thing to do that 256 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:03.639 in a modern day story, but this is specifically about 257 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:08.600 a story about Native people, the Kamanche people in this story, 258 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:12.120 and it's set in seventeen nineteen, where so not only 259 00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:15.080 are you studying a people that is so rarely studied, 260 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:17.519 but also the history of it. You know, it's not 261 00:14:17.559 --> 00:14:19.399 just like this person can say, oh, my lived experience 262 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:23.440 as a commanche person today is this. It's that we're 263 00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:26.639 talking to people who have really studied the history and 264 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:30.080 I think it's particularly important because one of the plot 265 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:33.559 there there are white folks who are coming into the land, 266 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:37.159 but it's set in seventeen nineteen. This is just when 267 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:41.039 initial contact between the in this case it's French fur 268 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:44.799 trappers and the Native folks, you know, has maybe started 269 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:47.720 in the last like thirty to fifty years. And I 270 00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:51.440 say that because I mean, we don't have many white 271 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:55.080 people's histories of like history is written by white people 272 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:58.519 of what these folks were like, and the ones we 273 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:01.600 have are probably incredibly untrustworthy. So we're going to do 274 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:06.120 this is about the study of you know, we're what 275 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:08.159 are the native historians, what are the people who've been 276 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:11.039 studying this community? Not this community through the eyes of 277 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:15.600 the white people, because like there is that contact with 278 00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.519 the French trappers that becomes a major plot point. But 279 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:21.879 for Marg's part, this is about a community that is 280 00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:25.919 fairly untouched by by the white folks who have come 281 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:26.559 to their continent. 282 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:34.000 Yeah, and that's I think for me, as someone who 283 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:38.120 obviously is not Native, like I don't know for certain, 284 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:40.600 like how authentic this is, right, Like I have to 285 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:43.120 as an audience member, you have to take some of 286 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:47.799 it on trust. And the fact that certain people are 287 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:52.720 involved in this I think gives me that trust. And 288 00:15:53.320 --> 00:15:57.120 I don't know, I think that's really important because a 289 00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:01.679 lot of the other like primary people I believe are 290 00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:08.279 are are white. But again, like the positioning of Jane Myers, 291 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:12.159 who's like evolved in a lot of Native movie like 292 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:16.080 Native centric movies and TV shows like that to me 293 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:19.559 is like okay, like you are putting someone here specifically 294 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:23.480 like to do a thing that is very important right 295 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:29.919 for this project. And I don't know, I it's very difficult, right, 296 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:35.240 Like we as audience members, I don't it's it's always 297 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:37.240 hard to say, like what is good and what is 298 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:40.159 bad representation. You have to listen to the people, and 299 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:43.600 for the most part, like the people, like the Native 300 00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:46.960 reviewers and critics have said like. 301 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:48.200 Yeah, this is good. 302 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:50.360 And one of the things that we didn't mention yet 303 00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:55.200 is that there is a dubbed version of this movie 304 00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:57.399 available that is dubbed. 305 00:16:57.039 --> 00:16:59.559 In Comanche, right, And. 306 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:02.799 What I have read is that this is the first 307 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:06.319 time ever in movie history that that has been done. 308 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:08.839 That That's what I've read as well, and that originally 309 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:11.440 Hulu didn't think that because this is produced by Hulu, 310 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:13.720 I believe, and they did not think that that would 311 00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:16.119 be necessary, but that that was requested by a lot 312 00:17:16.119 --> 00:17:18.960 of people, and so they wanted putting that out. And 313 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:21.599 even in the the English language version, which one I 314 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:25.640 saw and I'm presuming you saw there are there is 315 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:29.200 a lot of command she spoken. They switch it. Instead 316 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:32.039 of making a movie that's mostly subtitled, they have those 317 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:37.559 the characters who are who are Commanche speak in English 318 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:40.440 for audience recognition, but even in that one, you'll hear 319 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:41.519 some of the Commanche language. 320 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.160 Yeah, and that's just like a movie conceit right, like 321 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:50.240 right for us as primarily English language speakers, Like we're 322 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:53.519 putting out a movie where they speak in English, right, 323 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:58.000 But to have that Comanche dub available, I think is 324 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:01.799 I mean, it is like by de Finish, groundbreaking. But 325 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:03.759 I also think that it is very important. 326 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:05.920 M h. I can see that. 327 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:10.359 And again, like this is a kind of schlocky sci 328 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:15.240 fi horror franchise and they have done what, in my opinion, 329 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.400 is like one of the most important you know, native. 330 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:22.640 Representation and things in movies in years is really interesting. 331 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.920 Yeah, No, I think it's so true. And you you 332 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:27.240 you were kind of alluding to this, but I just 333 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:29.799 want to like outright state you know, there there are 334 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:33.319 times where between you or I are one of our guests, 335 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:37.359 we have a voice on this podcast from the community 336 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:40.680 that is represented in something that we're talking about. That's 337 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:42.720 not the case today. So I don't want to speak 338 00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:45.279 completely fore you, but I know myself, I don't have 339 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:49.680 any you know, connection to Native American communities whatsoever in 340 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:54.279 my own family heritage. And I think that the point 341 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:56.519 you make that this was one episode where part of 342 00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:59.240 why we took our time with it is we didn't 343 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:00.839 want to just watch them movie and talk about it. 344 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:02.519 We both wanted to do a lot of research on it. 345 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:05.720 We both wanted to read a lot more about it 346 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:07.680 because I do. And one of the things I think 347 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.119 that makes this even more complicated, and you've seen in 348 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.720 terms of like some of the debates that happen over 349 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:18.240 the you know, things like sports mascots that are considered 350 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:20.759 by some people to be racist, like the former name 351 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:24.079 of the Washington football team and things like that, myself 352 00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:25.599 being one of the one who thinks that they're racist. 353 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:31.480 To be clear, because as you mentioned, like the who 354 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:34.240 is in what Native tribe or Native community has become 355 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:38.119 very convoluted, in large part due to American colonialism and 356 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:41.079 the kind of the intentional division of tribes. But also 357 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:44.680 there's become a very politicized idea of who is or 358 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:47.599 who is not part of one political group or another. 359 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:51.519 And so, for example, like you have people who are 360 00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:54.200 part of the officially recognized by the United States government 361 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:58.799 organization of like I think in the case of Florida 362 00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:02.640 State University, the Seminole, that those ones are saying they 363 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:04.960 have no problem with Florida State. Those are the ones 364 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:06.799 who are also getting paid quite a lot by Florida 365 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:09.720 State and others who are against it. I can't claim 366 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:11.480 to comment on which side is which there and which 367 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:13.200 one is right or wrong, but I'm just saying that 368 00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:15.799 it gets a lot more complicated than just being able 369 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:18.359 to find one person who says, oh, hey, no, no, no, 370 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:20.200 I'm fine. I thought this movie was fine, or I 371 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:22.960 thought this movie was racist or whatever it is. And 372 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:24.680 in this case, though is as far as I can see, 373 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:26.160 and I think this is what you're saying as well. 374 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:29.279 It's not just like, oh, we found one commentator. It's 375 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:34.079 fairly universal among both like historians of all backgrounds but 376 00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:37.119 also people of the native communities that are being represented 377 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:40.079 here who talk about the authenticity of this movie really 378 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.200 meaning something and it being real. 379 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.480 Yeah, absolutely, Like that's that's what I mean. Is like 380 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:51.960 you have to have some trust, right as an audience member, 381 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:57.880 because we don't have that experience, So pay attention to 382 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:00.279 the people who do have the experience and what they say, 383 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:02.759 like whatever it is right, Like there are a lot 384 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:07.079 of issues in the world where you and I want 385 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:12.079 to care about things, but we don't know what the 386 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:15.680 right thing is sometimes, so we have to listen and 387 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:20.799 pay attention and to me a like just baseline as 388 00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:24.319 a movie, as a as a fan of horror, this 389 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:28.240 was an amazing movie. Like it was just well filmed, 390 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:31.920 like well acted, the action sequences were good, all of 391 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:36.000 that m and on top of that, to layer what 392 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:40.839 they have done to present the Comanche people in you 393 00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:44.279 know again, like what we believe is an authentic portrayal 394 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:47.279 in this movie is just like doubly good. 395 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:50.319 No, you're right, that really means a lot. And for 396 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:53.480 folks who want to learn more about this, And so 397 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:55.079 if you allow me to do a brief transition here 398 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:57.599 into the keeping the lights on part of the podcast. 399 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:01.480 There are some great books on commanche history, including one 400 00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:04.359 by the cultural consultant for this movie, a guy named 401 00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:07.480