1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,439 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the deep dive. Today. We're we're not 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:05,839 just looking up at the sky. We are basically putting 3 00:00:05,879 --> 00:00:08,759 on our detective hats because we have a cosmic mystery 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:13,279 on our hands, a mystery that is frankly baffling some 5 00:00:13,359 --> 00:00:16,800 of the sharpest minds in theoretical physics. We sort of 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,719 take for granted that the universe plays by a certain 7 00:00:18,719 --> 00:00:19,760 set of rules, you know. 8 00:00:19,839 --> 00:00:22,559 Speaker 2: Right, things. We understand gravity, chemistry. 9 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,519 Speaker 1: All of that exactly. Yeah, but what happens when an 10 00:00:24,519 --> 00:00:28,320 object comes along and just completely blows up the rule book? 11 00:00:28,359 --> 00:00:31,399 Speaker 2: Well, that object is commet three I lists. It's an 12 00:00:31,399 --> 00:00:37,039 interstellar visitor that has shown behavior so anomalous, so structurally strange, 13 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,320 that it has reignited one of the most provocative debates 14 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,719 in all of science, which is are we looking at 15 00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:46,079 a really complex, you know, but totally natural event or 16 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,200 is this the signature of advanced technology from another star system? 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: And that is the core attension we are diving into today. 18 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,920 We're going to be pulling out the most important, the 19 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:59,439 highest stakes insights from the recent analysis by Professor Avilobe. 20 00:00:59,079 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: The renowned theoretical physicist at Harvard. Yeah, he's the founder 21 00:01:03,039 --> 00:01:06,079 of the Galileo project, and you could argue he's the 22 00:01:06,079 --> 00:01:10,840 world's most prominent advocate for scientifically searching for what they 23 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:12,400 call techno signature. 24 00:01:12,079 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: Right, technological signatures. So for anyone who followed that whole 25 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,719 saga with Umamua a few years back, with its strange acceleration, 26 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,280 think of three ideless as it's lesser known but maybe 27 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,079 even more mysterious sibling. I think that's fair to say. Yeah, 28 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,519 So our mission today is pretty clear. We're going to 29 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,359 dissect the physical evidence. We're talking about its unusual size, 30 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:39,599 its orbital alignment, and most critically, the strange emissions people 31 00:01:39,599 --> 00:01:43,480 are calling jets. Yeah, and will unpack the competing ideas 32 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,719 right from say the commet just breaking up all the 33 00:01:46,719 --> 00:01:48,799 way to technological crusters. 34 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,319 Speaker 2: Exactly, and we'll explore why. At least according to Professor Low, 35 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,560 the scientific community has to stay open to these well, 36 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,040 to the most extreme possibilities, especially when the data just 37 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:58,920 keeps defying all the standard models. 38 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,599 Speaker 1: And we have to start with the the immediate tension. Yeah, 39 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,480 the thing that's kind of fueling this entire investigation right now, 40 00:02:04,519 --> 00:02:07,120 the missing data, the pursuit of the one piece of 41 00:02:07,159 --> 00:02:11,319 evidence that could potentially answer all of these questions. The 42 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,479 high resolution images that are still and this is kind 43 00:02:14,479 --> 00:02:16,840 of baffling missing from the public domain. 44 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an immediate and very frustrating tension because even 45 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,360 after all the cited reasons, the government shut downs, the 46 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,919 technical delays, even after all that ended, the most critical 47 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,199 pictures of this thing have not been released. Okay, So 48 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,840 let's get right into that section one, the pursuit of 49 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,520 data and why these specific NASA images matter so much. 50 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,159 This delay in releasing the images, it's more than just 51 00:02:41,199 --> 00:02:44,560 an annoyance for researchers. It really introduces this layer of 52 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,520 complication and even skepticism that just shouldn't be there in 53 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,159 what should be a straightforward astronomical. 54 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: Discoveryeah, because you're dealing with a moving target. 55 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: Right exactly. It's a dynamic object. It's retating, it's outgassing, 56 00:02:56,599 --> 00:02:59,560 it's flying through space at incredible speed. In a situation 57 00:02:59,719 --> 00:03:02,599 like that, data transparency and you know, getting that data 58 00:03:02,599 --> 00:03:05,319 out quickly is absolutely paramount. 59 00:03:04,879 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: And Professor Lobe was really public about this. He mentioned 60 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,319 he had gotten assurances from two different sources that NASA 61 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,280 was planning to release the images in a few days 62 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:16,919 in the middle of next week. That was months ago, 63 00:03:17,039 --> 00:03:20,319 now months ago. So why, I mean, in this day 64 00:03:20,319 --> 00:03:23,840 and age of instant data transfer and global scientific collaboration, 65 00:03:24,439 --> 00:03:26,800 why are these images taking so long to see the 66 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:27,400 light of day? 67 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 2: That is the million dollar question, isn't it. The official line, 68 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,800 according to Loab, was the need for processing these images 69 00:03:34,879 --> 00:03:38,120 now to be fair to NASA and the other agencies involved. Okay, 70 00:03:38,199 --> 00:03:41,000 processing high resolution images from deep space is not the 71 00:03:41,039 --> 00:03:43,120 same as you know, clicking a filter on your phone. 72 00:03:43,199 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: Right, Let's dig into that for a second for our 73 00:03:45,039 --> 00:03:48,639 listeners who might not know, what does processing actually involve here? 74 00:03:49,039 --> 00:03:52,159 When you're looking at something this far away with say 75 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,639 the Hubble or big ground based telescope. 76 00:03:55,199 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: The complexity is just immense. It all comes down to 77 00:03:58,159 --> 00:04:00,919 what's called the signal to noise ratio. You're imaging an 78 00:04:00,919 --> 00:04:04,039 object that's what twenty nine million miles from Mars. 79 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,719 Speaker 1: Which is still incredibly far away, incredibly far. 80 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,039 Speaker 2: The light signal you're getting is just unbelievably faint to 81 00:04:10,479 --> 00:04:15,000 So processing involves a few key steps. First, there's image sagging. 82 00:04:15,919 --> 00:04:18,680 To gather enough light, you can't just take one long picture. 83 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,480 You take lots of shorter exposures. And then you have 84 00:04:21,519 --> 00:04:25,319 to digitally and perfectly align them and stack them. This 85 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,800 maximizes the signal of the comet itself while minimizing all 86 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:30,560 the random background noise, So. 87 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,399 Speaker 1: You're basically building one good picture out of hundreds of 88 00:04:33,439 --> 00:04:34,600 little one precisely. 89 00:04:35,319 --> 00:04:39,319 Speaker 2: Then there's cosmic ray removal. The telescope detectors are constantly 90 00:04:39,319 --> 00:04:41,920 getting hit by high energy particles from space, right, I've 91 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:42,439 seen those. 92 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: They look like little white streaks on the raw images. 93 00:04:45,079 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 2: Exactly, and those have to be digitally identified and removed 94 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,040 without accidentally deleting you know, a real star or part 95 00:04:51,079 --> 00:04:53,800 of the comet's data. And then third, there's a process 96 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:54,800 called deconvolution. 97 00:04:55,399 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: Sounds complicated, it is. 98 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: It's where they use math to basically sharpen the image 99 00:05:00,199 --> 00:05:02,199 to correct for any blurring that was introduced by the 100 00:05:02,199 --> 00:05:05,639 telescope's own optics, or, if it's a ground telescope, the 101 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,319 blurring from our own atmosphere. 102 00:05:07,639 --> 00:05:10,439 Speaker 1: So okay, there is a genuine technical reason it could 103 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,399 take some time, maybe even weeks. But the data was 104 00:05:14,439 --> 00:05:18,120 collected back in early October of twenty twenty three, So 105 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:22,399 with an object this significant, why the ongoing delay we're 106 00:05:22,439 --> 00:05:24,120 talking months now, And that's. 107 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: Why Lobe skepticism is so understandable. I mean, yes, processing 108 00:05:28,319 --> 00:05:31,319 is complex, but is also a standard operating procedure for 109 00:05:31,399 --> 00:05:34,160 these agencies. They have whole teams of people dedicated to 110 00:05:34,319 --> 00:05:37,560 just this. Right, So when the entire astronomical community is 111 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,560 on the edge of its seat waiting for data that 112 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,800 could potentially rewrite our understanding of interstellar objects, the urgency 113 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,680 is just it's extreme. The longer this delay goes on, 114 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,439 the higher the risk that scientists just fall back on 115 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,399 speculation instead of hard evidence. 116 00:05:51,439 --> 00:05:54,079 Speaker 1: And Love himself said he'd rather believe the story about 117 00:05:54,439 --> 00:05:56,800 technical delays than the alternative, right. 118 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 2: He said something like, I prefer to believe that this 119 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:04,680 story then think they're withholding one's information. Here it's him 120 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,279 giving the benefit of the doubt. But you can hear 121 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:06,920 the strain in that. 122 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: So let's really hammer this home. Why is this specific 123 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,800 batch of data so important. It's not just that they're 124 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,399 the highest resolution images, right. The perspective is key. 125 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 2: Absolutely essential. These images were specifically taken from the side 126 00:06:20,399 --> 00:06:22,959 of three ie at lists. Now, if you imagine an 127 00:06:22,959 --> 00:06:26,519 object that could be elongated or flat, or even has 128 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,279 some kind of structure to it, Okay, observing it head 129 00:06:29,319 --> 00:06:32,439 on gives you almost no information about its true shape. 130 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,480 You just see the brightness of the coma, the gas cloud, 131 00:06:35,519 --> 00:06:36,680 and maybe a blurry tail. 132 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: It's like trying to figure out the shape of a 133 00:06:39,079 --> 00:06:41,480 coin by only looking at it face on. You can't 134 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,519 tell it's thin and round until you look at it 135 00:06:43,519 --> 00:06:44,160 from the edge. 136 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 2: That's a perfect analogy. The side view is everything for 137 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,240 spatial resolution for understanding the object's real geometry. For instance, 138 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,360 if three eye lasts is anything like umuh Mua, which 139 00:06:54,439 --> 00:06:57,959 some people hypothesized was pancake shaped or cigar shaped. 140 00:06:57,759 --> 00:07:00,439 Speaker 1: A side view image would confirm that instantly. 141 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 2: Instantly, and even more importantly, that side perspective allows scientists 142 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,759 to pinpoint the exact origin points of these jets and emissions. 143 00:07:08,319 --> 00:07:11,199 That's crucial for figuring out if they're just random outgassing 144 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,560 spots on a tumbling rock or something more like structured 145 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:15,439 thrust nozzles. 146 00:07:15,639 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: And this whole opportunity was timed perfectly. It was planned 147 00:07:19,199 --> 00:07:22,560 for that pass on October two, twenty twenty three, when 148 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,040 it was at its closest point to our observation capabilities. 149 00:07:26,399 --> 00:07:28,720 This wasn't a random snapshot, No, this was. 150 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:33,639 Speaker 2: A deliberate, maximized opportunity. It was a rare, unusual opportunity, 151 00:07:33,639 --> 00:07:36,839 as Low would put it. I mean, think about planetary geometry. 152 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,480 These windows where an interstellar object passes relatively close to 153 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,639 one of our high powered instruments, they're really, really rare. 154 00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: So when it happens, you point everything you've got at it. 155 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: Every telescope that can pivot is aimed at that target. 156 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,920 This alignment was chosen because it maximized the potential for data. 157 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,319 The information they collected then is probably the best chance 158 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,319 we'll ever have to capture the true physical characteristics of 159 00:07:58,360 --> 00:07:59,199 three ilis. 160 00:07:59,399 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: And if that data shows the object is asymmetrical or 161 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,639 highly structured, or has what look like actual thrusters. 162 00:08:05,319 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: Then the entire debate just shifts instantly. 163 00:08:08,519 --> 00:08:11,079 Speaker 1: So why does a delay of weeks or in this 164 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:15,439 case months matter scientifically? I mean beyond just feeding public impatients. 165 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: It matters because this is a transient phenomenon. It's not 166 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,800 a static rock. If three I list is out gassing 167 00:08:21,959 --> 00:08:26,360 or if it's maneuvering, those activities aren't constant. The jets change, 168 00:08:26,519 --> 00:08:30,040 the tail structure evolves over time. Okay, If and it's 169 00:08:30,079 --> 00:08:33,000 a big if, if the object is technological, it might 170 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,480 even power down, or adjust its course, or just stop 171 00:08:35,519 --> 00:08:38,799 emitting altogether. By the time we get the old images 172 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,159 from October, we lose the chance to correlate that old 173 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,000 data with the object's current behavior. 174 00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: It stops you from doing follow up observations. 175 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: Exactly, It cripples them. If the images show a jet 176 00:08:49,159 --> 00:08:52,000 firing from a specific spot, astronomers need to re aim 177 00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:54,679 their telescopes now to see if that jet is still 178 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,600 active or if a different one has started up. Delays 179 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,960 like this turn real time diagnostics into to well, just 180 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,240 historical record keeping. 181 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,399 Speaker 1: It changes the investigation from an act of forensic analysis 182 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,200 into a purely historical one. You lose the ability to 183 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,240 catch the suspect in the act, so to speak. 184 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:12,399 Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it. 185 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: But let's pivot now to the evidence we do have, 186 00:09:15,399 --> 00:09:17,720 because the data that has been collected, even from less 187 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,919 perfect views, is already profoundly strange, and it all centers 188 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,360 on the object's jets, and they're really underving coordination. 189 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,519 Speaker 2: Right. If the first part of this story is about 190 00:09:30,519 --> 00:09:33,360 the tension of missing data, this next part is about 191 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,960 the tension of the data. We already have, data that 192 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,639 just refuses to fit into the standard cometary mold, and 193 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,840 the most compelling anomaly by far involves the detailed structure 194 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,320 and behavior of its jets. 195 00:09:45,519 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: So what are we actually seeing? What do the images show? 196 00:09:48,159 --> 00:09:50,639 Speaker 2: Well, Lowe have noted that their observations show all the 197 00:09:50,639 --> 00:09:53,720 seven jets are coming from the south of the central object, 198 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:54,679 the nucleus. 199 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: Seven jets. That alone seems like. 200 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 2: A lot, it's notable. Yeah, but the part that really 201 00:09:59,399 --> 00:10:03,200 defines phys is the directional anomaly. These seven jets are 202 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,279 observed pointing in multiple, sometimes completely contradictory directions. He says, 203 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:09,600 some of them towards the Sun, some of them away 204 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:10,159 from the Sun. 205 00:10:10,279 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: Okay, let's break that down. If we stick with the simplest, 206 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,639 most common explanation for a comet, which is just sublimation 207 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,480 from solar heating. Sure, how does that model fall apart 208 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:22,240 immediately with this observation. 209 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,399 Speaker 2: Well, a standard comet is you know, it's essentially a big, 210 00:10:25,399 --> 00:10:28,679 dirty snowball. As it gets closer to the Sun, the 211 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,200 Sun's radiation heats the ice on its surface, usually water 212 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,440 co CO two, and that ice sublimates, turning directly into 213 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:37,919 gas and carrying dust. 214 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: With it, and that creates the jets. 215 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,639 Speaker 2: That he tates the outward force the jets, and those 216 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,159 jets are almost always directed generally away from the Sun 217 00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:49,000 or at least localized to the side of the nucleus 218 00:10:49,039 --> 00:10:51,000 that's currently facing the Sun's heat. 219 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: So jets pointing toward the Sun or coming from the dark, 220 00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:57,879 unlit side, that just shouldn't be happening under that model. 221 00:10:58,039 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 2: It shouldn't. I mean, sure, complex rotation and internal pressures 222 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:06,480 can sometimes cause weird transient jets, but sustained, coordinated jets 223 00:11:06,519 --> 00:11:09,480 that are pointing toward the Sun, that's a massive, massive 224 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,360 issue for the natural heating model. It strongly suggests some 225 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,279 kind of internal or directed power source, not just passive 226 00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:16,080 solar energy. 227 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,159 Speaker 1: But that's not even the weirdest part, is it. Yeah, 228 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,200 The real knockout punch to the standard comet theory comes 229 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,679 when you factor in the object's rotation. This is the 230 00:11:23,759 --> 00:11:24,919 rotational conflict. 231 00:11:25,039 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 2: This is the scientific crux of the whole argument. We 232 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:33,440 know from observation that the object is rotating very, very rapidly. 233 00:11:33,919 --> 00:11:37,879 They've pinned its rotational period at a remarkably swift four 234 00:11:37,919 --> 00:11:39,240 point one scene. 235 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: Hours, so it's spinning completely around almost six times every 236 00:11:42,519 --> 00:11:43,039 single day. 237 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 2: Yes, we're dealing with a body that is tumbling very 238 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:47,279 very fast. 239 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: Okay, So if a comet is spinning that fast, and 240 00:11:50,759 --> 00:11:56,279 it's passively spinning out materialized dust, whatever from specific spots 241 00:11:56,279 --> 00:11:59,519 on its surface, what should happen to the jets of 242 00:11:59,519 --> 00:12:01,519 that material as they travel away from it? 243 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 2: They should be smeared absolutely one hundred percent of the time. 244 00:12:03,879 --> 00:12:06,759 Think about the physics here. The material that forms the jet, 245 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,159 the gas and dust. It gets ejected at a certain speed, 246 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,879 maybe a three hundred meters per second for the dust, 247 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,159 up to a kilometer per second for the gas. Right, 248 00:12:14,519 --> 00:12:17,240 But as that material is traveling away from the nucleus, 249 00:12:17,279 --> 00:12:20,679 the nucleus itself is constantly changing its orientation. Because of 250 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:22,159 that four point one sis hour. 251 00:12:22,039 --> 00:12:24,639 Speaker 1: Rotation, you've got a moving source launching material from a 252 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,399 spinning platform exactly. 253 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,879 Speaker 2: So, over the timeframe of the observations, lob mentions about 254 00:12:29,879 --> 00:12:35,000 a month, that rotation should introduce a well, a catastrophic 255 00:12:35,039 --> 00:12:39,120 amount of smearing and blurring into the jet structure. Instead 256 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,559 of seeing tight, coherent streams, you'd expect to see these 257 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,679 curved spirals or maybe a diffuse fan shape that traces 258 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,279 the rotational path of the source point on the surface. 259 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,799 Speaker 1: We should see jets that look like blurry paint being 260 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,799 flung off a rapidly spinning carousel. 261 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 2: That's perfect, So the spinning garden hose analogy is dead on. 262 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,639 If the jets were just passive outgassing, the stream of 263 00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:03,519 water should spiral out like crazy. But what is the 264 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:08,120 actual observations coherence? It's coherence. The jets are observed as 265 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,879 tightly coordinated and crucially not significantly smeared by the rotation, 266 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,080 and that means the outflow mechanism has to be highly localized, 267 00:13:16,159 --> 00:13:19,200 highly controlled, or it's somehow managing to compensate for that 268 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:19,919 rapid spin. 269 00:13:20,279 --> 00:13:23,159 Speaker 1: The source point seem to be maintaining a fixed direction 270 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,080 relative to the Solar system, even though the object itself 271 00:13:26,159 --> 00:13:28,639 is tumbling over and over every four hours. 272 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 2: Yes, the gas and dust are traveling outward, but the 273 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,519 direction of the launch seems to be independent of the 274 00:13:34,519 --> 00:13:38,120 object's spin. That is a massive violation of the expected 275 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,799 physics for a rotating, passively outgassing body. It just it 276 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,480 forces you to ask what kind of mechanism can launch 277 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,840 a jet that is not smeared by rotation. Well, it 278 00:13:48,919 --> 00:13:52,200 requires a mechanism that is actively compensating for the spin 279 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,320 a passive physical process like ice sublimating. It only knows 280 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,679 about heat and local pressure it's done, but an active 281 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,840 technological mechanism, like a thruster on a spacecraft. 282 00:14:02,919 --> 00:14:04,879 Speaker 1: It is an internal guidance system. 283 00:14:04,639 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 2: Exactly, it has a system that knows exactly when and 284 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,879 how to fire to maintain a specific vector in space, 285 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,720 regardless of how the chassis is rotating. If you want 286 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,399 to move your spinning craft and direction X, you fire 287 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,240 your thrusters at precise moments to overcome the influence of 288 00:14:18,279 --> 00:14:18,679 that spin. 289 00:14:18,919 --> 00:14:21,399 Speaker 1: So the coherent jets we see they suggest that the 290 00:14:21,399 --> 00:14:23,360 directionality is being actively maintained. 291 00:14:23,679 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: It strongly suggests it. And this level of detailed, unsmeared jets, 292 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,159 despite rapid rotation, it really moves the object out of 293 00:14:31,159 --> 00:14:34,639 the category of just a weird commet and firmly into 294 00:14:34,639 --> 00:14:38,039 the category of a physical process we don't understand yet, 295 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:42,480 or technology, which forces us to consider all the options right. 296 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,759 Speaker 1: Which brings us to section three, laying out all the possibilities, 297 00:14:45,919 --> 00:14:48,720 from natural explanations to technological thrusters. 298 00:14:48,919 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the scientific process demands rigor here before we 299 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,399 jump to the most exciting conclusion, we absolutely have to 300 00:14:55,399 --> 00:14:58,679 try and exhaust every viable natural explanation that could possibly 301 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,879 account for these jets, and Professor lobe He systematically proposed 302 00:15:02,879 --> 00:15:07,679 and then analyzed three possibilities, two natural and one technological. Okay, 303 00:15:07,679 --> 00:15:09,559 so let's start with the most obvious tweak to the 304 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,840 standard model. Maybe the heating is an uniform across the surface. 305 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,639 This is possibility one uneven solar heating. The idea is 306 00:15:16,679 --> 00:15:19,080 that instead of the whole sunlit side sublimating, maybe there 307 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,919 are only specific deep pockets of the surface facing the 308 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,120 sun are getting warmed up. 309 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: So they could explain why there were seven distinct jets 310 00:15:25,519 --> 00:15:28,080 instead of just a big blurry cloud a generalized coma. 311 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,639 Speaker 2: It could. Yes, it's a subtle but plausible refinement to 312 00:15:31,679 --> 00:15:36,480 the model, But what's the immediate overwhelming flaw in that hypothesis. 313 00:15:36,519 --> 00:15:37,759 Speaker 1: It doesn't explain all the data. 314 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,639 Speaker 2: It's an insufficient explanation. While that localized heating could maybe 315 00:15:41,679 --> 00:15:45,000 explain the jets on the sunlit side, it completely fails 316 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,480 to account for that crucial directional anomaly. 317 00:15:47,039 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: We just talked about, the jets that are also seen 318 00:15:49,559 --> 00:15:51,440 going on the opposite direction away from the sun. 319 00:15:51,639 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: Right solar heating is a one way street. It cannot 320 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,440 generate sustained outflow on the side of an object that's 321 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,200 shielded from the sun, so at best, uneven solar heating 322 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,960 is a partial and ultimately a very inadequate explanation for 323 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,120 the totality of the jet's behavior. Okay, so it's not 324 00:16:07,159 --> 00:16:10,360 just simple heating. What's next, Maybe the object itself is 325 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:15,720 structurally compromised. Let's move to possibility to object fragmentation. This 326 00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:18,519 is a robust natural hypothesis because, I mean, we see 327 00:16:18,519 --> 00:16:21,320 this happen all the time with comets. They're fragile. The 328 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,279 theory here is that the object broke up, and what 329 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,679 we see is the trail of material from the fragments 330 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,720 flying out. A shattering event could release material explosively and 331 00:16:29,759 --> 00:16:32,759 create plumes that at first might look like jets. 332 00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:35,799 Speaker 1: So how do these kinds of breakups usually look in 333 00:16:35,879 --> 00:16:38,080 astronomical data? What are the telltale signs? 334 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: Well? When a comet fragments, usually from tidal stress, passing 335 00:16:41,879 --> 00:16:45,120 too close to a planet or sudden thermal stress, two 336 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,440 things generally happen. First, the debris field becomes visibly diffuse. 337 00:16:49,919 --> 00:16:53,039 You can see a clear trail of material where individual 338 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,399 fragments sometimes called mini comets continue along the same orbital path, 339 00:16:57,679 --> 00:16:59,559 each with its own tiny coma, So. 340 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,279 Speaker 1: You stop having one single central object. 341 00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 2: Correct, you lose that single coherent nucleus. And second, these 342 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,920 fragments often display chaotic or inconsistent acceleration as they're small 343 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,400 pieces randomly outgas in different directions. 344 00:17:13,519 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: But the observational evidence for three EE tiles it contradicts 345 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:17,960 both of those scions precisely. 346 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,279 Speaker 2: Loll pointed out that the observations show quote, it looks 347 00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:23,680 like a single object in the middle. There is a 348 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,920 clear centralized nucleus from which all seven jets appear to 349 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,720 be originating. You don't see a diffuse cloud or a 350 00:17:29,759 --> 00:17:31,720 long spreading trail of smaller fragments. 351 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: So that pretty much undermines the breakup theory. It heavily 352 00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:38,799 undermines it. Yeah, and furthermore, a chaotic breakup event would 353 00:17:38,839 --> 00:17:41,720 likely increase the smearing and the randomness of the outflow. 354 00:17:42,319 --> 00:17:47,039 But what we observe is the exact opposite coherence and coordination. 355 00:17:48,079 --> 00:17:53,480 So okay, we have two leading natural explanations uneven heating 356 00:17:53,519 --> 00:17:57,240 and fragmentation, and both of them fail to comprehensively explain 357 00:17:57,319 --> 00:18:01,519 the observed data, especially that combination of unsmeared coordination and 358 00:18:01,559 --> 00:18:03,000 the bidirectional jets. 359 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 2: Which means we are forced by scientific rigor to seriously 360 00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:10,160 entertain the third possibility technology. This is where the AHA 361 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,880 moment comes in, not because it's the answer anyone prefers, 362 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,359 but because it's the most elegant mechanical explanation for the 363 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,480 anomalies we see. This is the hypothesis that the jets 364 00:18:18,519 --> 00:18:21,279 are thrusters from a technology object that are used to 365 00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:22,319 maneuver and navigate. 366 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,079 Speaker 1: So the technological idea basically flips the cause and effect 367 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,200 on its head. It says the jets aren't passive consequences 368 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,440 of sunlight hitting ice. 369 00:18:29,319 --> 00:18:32,559 Speaker 2: They are active components of a propulsion system. And this 370 00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:36,839 single idea resolves the biggest conflict of all, that rotational 371 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,119 smearing problem. If these are controlled thrusters, they are firing 372 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,440 with a purpose. That purpose might be to stabilize the 373 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,640 craft or change its trajectory, or, most relevantly here, to 374 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,400 maintain their orientation relative to the solar system despite the 375 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,200 object's four point one six hour rotation. 376 00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: Because an active guidance system can calculate the exact thrust 377 00:18:58,799 --> 00:19:01,839 needed to cancel out this exactly. 378 00:19:01,519 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 2: It explains the coherence we observe. It directly connects the 379 00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:09,559 jets to an intelligent, goal oriented manipulation, not just passive physics. 380 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: It's a really striking dichotomy, isn't it. YEA one model 381 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,799 requires us to invent some complex, highly non standard cometary 382 00:19:16,839 --> 00:19:20,000 physics that we've frankly never seen before just to explain 383 00:19:20,079 --> 00:19:20,920 these seven jets. 384 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 2: The other model, the other model, just requires us to 385 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,720 accept technology, which immediately simplifies the explanation for why they're 386 00:19:26,759 --> 00:19:27,480 so coordinated. 387 00:19:27,519 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: And that's the tension. 388 00:19:28,519 --> 00:19:31,279 Speaker 2: That's the tension of the whole investigation and Low. While 389 00:19:31,279 --> 00:19:33,480 he's quick to acknowledge that the verdict is still out, 390 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,480 he also emphasizes that when the simplest natural explanations fail, 391 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,400 scientists have a duty to investigate the next most plausible 392 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,880 physical explanations, even if those explanations are uncomfortable or require 393 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:46,839 a paradigm shift. 394 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: We have to wait for the data, but we also 395 00:19:49,759 --> 00:19:52,440 have to prepare for the possibility that the data confirms 396 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:53,599 something non natural. 397 00:19:53,799 --> 00:19:57,039 Speaker 2: It's a cosmic investigation that demands impartiality. 398 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah. But as soon as that t word technology 399 00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:03,599 enters the discussion, the debate moves beyond just pure observation 400 00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:07,160 and into well, into philosophical territory, doesn't it. 401 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 2: It does, And that's where you see this intense friction 402 00:20:09,559 --> 00:20:13,680 between those who are actively looking for technosignatures and the 403 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,599 let's say, the conservative mainstream of astronomy. 404 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,319 Speaker 1: And we saw that tension reflected in the source material 405 00:20:19,559 --> 00:20:22,279 which brought up the position of doctor Mitio Kako He 406 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,599 kind of represents that cautious, standard scientific viewpoint right. 407 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 2: Kakus stated that the probability of three aisles less being 408 00:20:28,519 --> 00:20:32,400 alien in nature is quote not zero, but it's very small. 409 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,559 Speaker 1: And his core argument was that despite having a few anomalies, 410 00:20:36,839 --> 00:20:40,039 it ultimately looks like an ordinary comet. Let's give that 411 00:20:40,039 --> 00:20:43,480 skepticism the attention it deserves. Why is the default position 412 00:20:43,559 --> 00:20:46,559 in astronomy always to assume natural phenomena even when things 413 00:20:46,599 --> 00:20:49,480 look really strange. Well, it's really rooted in two things, 414 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,880 Okham's razor and historical precedent. Okham's razor is the principle 415 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,440 of the simplest explanation is usually the best one, and 416 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,200 the simplest explanation for a rock flying through space is 417 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,559 always just rock physics, not intelligence. 418 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:07,039 Speaker 2: Exactly to introduce a highly complex explanation like extraterrestrial intelligence 419 00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:10,759 requires an extraordinary burden of proof. And secondly, history is 420 00:21:10,839 --> 00:21:14,880 just littered with examples of unexplained astronomical phenomena that turned 421 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,640 out to be natural, just you know, unusual. 422 00:21:17,759 --> 00:21:21,559 Speaker 1: I'm thinking of pulsars. When Jocelyn Bell Burnell first discovered them, 423 00:21:21,559 --> 00:21:24,480 the signals were so perfectly regular, they were so strange 424 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,200 they jokingly call the first one LGM one Little. 425 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,279 Speaker 2: Green Men one exactly. And pulsars turned out to be 426 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:36,200 rapidly rotating neutron stars, a bizarre but completely natural phenomenon, 427 00:21:36,599 --> 00:21:40,680 not an alien beacon. So astronomers cite this history to 428 00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:43,079 argue that we should just assume three I Atlas is 429 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,799 an unknown type of comet, maybe one with a different 430 00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:49,000 composition from another star system that we just haven't cataloged yet. 431 00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: They argue that attributing these anomalies to aliens is premature, 432 00:21:52,839 --> 00:21:54,880 maybe even intellectually lazy. 433 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 2: And that's a powerful defense of the conservative view, it 434 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,400 really is. But Professor Loebe, who has been documenting this 435 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,880 object so rigorously, he directly challenged that idea that three 436 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,200 ilists only has a few anomalies. 437 00:22:08,599 --> 00:22:12,519 Speaker 1: He certainly did. His rebuttal was very specific, and demanding. 438 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,400 He's listed at least twelve anomalies associated with this thing, 439 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,880 which he's documented in depth, and he basically called out 440 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:18,839 the scientific community. 441 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 2: He did. He said, anyone claiming it's just an ordinary 442 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,440 comment must write a paper explaining all of these anomalies 443 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,119 quite professionally. You can't just hand wave away a dozen 444 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,079 pieces of contradictory data and call the minor quirks okay. 445 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 1: So this brings us to a deeper dive into those anomalies. 446 00:22:33,319 --> 00:22:36,039 We've talked a lot about the unsmeared jets, but let's 447 00:22:36,039 --> 00:22:39,440 expand our view. What are the most convincing pieces of 448 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:45,000 evidence besides the jets that challenge the natural hypothesis. Well, 449 00:22:45,079 --> 00:22:49,359 LoVa highlights two structural anomalies as being particularly compelling, but 450 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,319 we should look at a few to really appreciate the 451 00:22:51,319 --> 00:22:53,920 full weight of the evidence. Let's start with the one 452 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:58,200 that's all about statistics. Anomaly a alignment with the planetary plane. 453 00:22:58,319 --> 00:23:00,000 Remind us what the ecliptic plane is. Again. 454 00:23:00,319 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 2: The ecliptic plane is basically the flat disc, the plane 455 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,640 on which all the major planets in our Solar system 456 00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:07,640 orbit the Sun. It's like the galactic traffic lane. 457 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: For us. 458 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,519 Speaker 2: Okay, now three atlas is an interstellar object. It came 459 00:23:11,519 --> 00:23:14,440 from outside our system. An object arriving randomly from the 460 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,400 distant Milky Way should approach from a totally random vector 461 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,480 from high above or far below, or at some steep angle, 462 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,200 like a dart thrown arbitrarily at a dark board. 463 00:23:23,279 --> 00:23:26,039 Speaker 1: But the observation is that three ils is lined up 464 00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:27,960 with the plane of the planets from the beginning. 465 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 2: The statistical improbability of that is immense. For a genuinely 466 00:23:32,839 --> 00:23:36,519 random interstellar object. The chance of it entering our solar 467 00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:39,640 system and aligning itself so neatly with our ecliptic plane 468 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,640 is just extremely low. 469 00:23:41,759 --> 00:23:44,039 Speaker 1: Would suggests as trajectory wasn't random. 470 00:23:44,599 --> 00:23:47,519 Speaker 2: It implies two possibilities. Really, Either we just won the 471 00:23:47,559 --> 00:23:51,160 cosmic lottery and we're seeing an incredibly rare statistical fluke, 472 00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:56,000 or there was some element of deliberate insertion or navigation. 473 00:23:56,519 --> 00:23:59,440 I mean, if you were an extraterrestrial civilization sending probes 474 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,680 to invent instigate another star system, where would you aim. 475 00:24:02,839 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: You'd aim for the planetary traffic lanes the ecliptic plane. 476 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,559 That's where all the interesting targets are Exactly. 477 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 2: The alignment fits to technological hypothesis perfectly. 478 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,799 Speaker 1: Okay, I have to play devil's advocate here, though from 479 00:24:13,839 --> 00:24:16,880 that conservative perspective, couldn't this just be an example of 480 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,359 survivorship bias? Ow So, well, if there are trillions of 481 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,759 intertellar objects flying through the galaxy, then statistically a few 482 00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:28,480 of them have to randomly align with our ecliptic plane, 483 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,039 and we simply notice the ones that happen to be 484 00:24:31,079 --> 00:24:33,920 aligned because they're easier to see or they pass closer 485 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:34,359 to us. 486 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 2: That is a crucial counter argument, and it's a valid one. Yes, 487 00:24:38,079 --> 00:24:41,039 statistically something will always align perfectly if you have a 488 00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:45,119 big enough sample size. However, the issue here is that 489 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,400 three iatalysts isn't just aligned. It also has a dozen 490 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,119 other properties that are non standard. 491 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: The anomalies are compounding. 492 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 2: They're compounding. The conservative view would hold that if you 493 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,160 see a million random objects, the one that aligns is 494 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,039 just a coincidence. Argument is that when you've only observed 495 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,799 two major interstellar objects up close, Omua and this one, 496 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,279 and both of them display multiple non gravitational and structural 497 00:25:09,319 --> 00:25:13,440 anomalies in combination with that alignment, the coincidence theory really 498 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,759 starts to stretch credulity. The data points just keep piling 499 00:25:16,839 --> 00:25:18,359 up against the simplest explanation. 500 00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:22,759 Speaker 1: Okay, let's look at the second major anomaly, which is 501 00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:25,799 maybe the most shocking number we've discussed. So for anomaly B, 502 00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:29,279 the massive size difference, this one is about the sheer 503 00:25:29,319 --> 00:25:32,720 scale of the object. Lobe emphasizes that this is a 504 00:25:34,079 --> 00:25:37,119 very big object, much more than we expect it, and 505 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,440 put that into context. He compared it to Umua, the 506 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,720 first interstellar object we really got to look at, and 507 00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:44,359 he noted that previous objects like it were a million 508 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,759 times less mass. A million times Yeah, that's not just 509 00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:49,039 a large commet. That implies it's a completely different class 510 00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:51,519 of object altogether. If a typical comet is the size 511 00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:54,079 of a small mountain, what on Earth is three ilis? 512 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 2: Well, it means it's composition and its structure must be 513 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,079 fundamentally different. If this thing were a typical icy object 514 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,119 of that size, the solar heating would have produced a 515 00:26:04,319 --> 00:26:08,000 massive blinding coma and a tail that would have been 516 00:26:08,039 --> 00:26:09,680 visible to the naked eye for months. 517 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:10,759 Speaker 1: But that's not what we saw. 518 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,559 Speaker 2: No. The fact that it maintains these tightly controlled jets 519 00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:18,559 and a relatively subtle presentation for its size suggests an 520 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,640 incredibly dense, robust structure that is not dominated by ice 521 00:26:23,759 --> 00:26:27,079 or other volatile materials. It must be metallic, or at 522 00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:29,599 the very least made of a far denser rock than 523 00:26:29,599 --> 00:26:31,000 we typically see in commets. 524 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: So the natural model requires a comet that is aligned 525 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,480 perfectly with their solar system, spins rapidly, yet somehow doesn't 526 00:26:37,519 --> 00:26:40,759 smear its seven jets and is a million times more 527 00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:43,880 massive than its siblings. It doesn't seem to be very volatile. 528 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,079 Speaker 2: It requires a significant number of cascading coincidences. Yes, and 529 00:26:48,079 --> 00:26:49,839 we should briefly touch on just a couple of the 530 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,640 other anomalies on lobes list to really drive the point home. 531 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,279 For instance, the lack of expected. 532 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: Volatiles what it's made of. Comets are defined by their ices. Yeah, water, ice, 533 00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:03,440 carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, but early spectral analysis of three 534 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,119 itellis suggested a lack of the expected levels of these 535 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,359 really common combat materials. So if the jets aren't primarily 536 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,960 made of water or carbon compounds, what are they? That 537 00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:17,680 raises huge questions about its chemical origin. And there was 538 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,240 another one about how it reflects light. 539 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 2: It's unusual reflectivity. Yeah, the light signature, it gives off 540 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,079 as peculiar, suggesting a very atypical surface composition. Again, maybe 541 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,200 something metallic or highly robust, which is just inconsistent with 542 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,000 a fluffy, icy snowball model. 543 00:27:31,079 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: So when you stack all of that together, the massive size, 544 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,359 the perfect alignment, the lack of smearing on the jets, 545 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,640 the weird chemical makeup, the technological hypothesis, it stops being 546 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,599 science fiction and starts becoming a necessary scientific consideration. 547 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,559 Speaker 2: It becomes an intellectual obligation. Look, Love is not out 548 00:27:47,559 --> 00:27:50,960 there saying this is definitively an alien spacecraft. What he's 549 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:56,359 saying is the natural models fail, and they fail comprehensively. Therefore, 550 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,519 we must use science to rigorously investigate the next best 551 00:27:59,559 --> 00:28:03,039 mechanic explanation, which happens to be controlled propulsion. 552 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,559 Speaker 1: And his consistent call for caution is still the main 553 00:28:06,599 --> 00:28:07,960 message paramount. 554 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 2: He says, let's wait and check what the subject is 555 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,079 in the coming weeks, rather than stay give the verdict already. 556 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,880 The goal is simply to explain the data fully, not 557 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,000 to confirm a pre existing bias for or against aliens. 558 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,920 This is the very essence of scientific inquiry. You follow 559 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,200 the data, no matter how strange a place it leads you. 560 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: It's a powerful lesson in scientific humility and rigor. We're 561 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,000 looking at objects that force us to admit that our 562 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,359 models of the cosmos, especially when it comes to interstellar visitors, 563 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,440 are likely very, very incomplete. Okay, let's wrap this up. 564 00:28:39,079 --> 00:28:43,759 This deep dive into comment three I outlasts has been well, 565 00:28:44,079 --> 00:28:47,160 it's been a masterclass in forensic astronomy. We take these 566 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,000 initial observations and Professor Lobs analysis and we can really 567 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,640 distill them into three major takeaways that challenge what we 568 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:54,119 think we know. 569 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 2: Right First, I think you have to internalize the coordination conflict. 570 00:28:58,279 --> 00:29:02,839 The simple observation of seven then unsmeared tightly coordinated jets 571 00:29:03,079 --> 00:29:06,759 on an object that's rotating every four hours that fundamentally 572 00:29:06,759 --> 00:29:09,920 defies the standard model of passive commentary outgassing. 573 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: If rotation should produce a spiral, a blur, and we 574 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,640 see coherence, a huge piece of scientific explanation is missing, 575 00:29:16,839 --> 00:29:20,480 completely missing. Second takeaway, remember the power of the technological 576 00:29:20,519 --> 00:29:24,079 hypothesis as a problem solver. The idea of directed control 577 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,119 thrusters is, strangely enough, the most elegant mechanical solution to 578 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,000 that problem of rotational compensation is the simplest solution to 579 00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:32,039 the most complex problem. 580 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,799 Speaker 2: It is where the natural explanations fail because of physical constraints. 581 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,640 The concept of active propulsion resolves that coherence anomaly perfectly. 582 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,319 And third, you have to consider the statistical weight of 583 00:29:42,359 --> 00:29:43,079 the anomalies. 584 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:44,759 Speaker 1: This isn't just one weird. 585 00:29:44,519 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 2: Thing, not at all. The fact that three iedls is 586 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,160 a million times more massive than we expected, and that's 587 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,640 coupled with its near perfect alignment with our solar system's 588 00:29:53,759 --> 00:29:58,680 ecliptic plane that pushes the boundaries of statistical improbability. And 589 00:29:58,759 --> 00:30:01,880 when you combine those struck features with the strange jet 590 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,960 behavior and the odd chemical makeup, labeling it an ordinary 591 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,079 comment starts to feel like an act of faith, not 592 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:09,079 an act of science. 593 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: And this whole saga it ties directly into the broader 594 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,440 search for techno signatures that the Galileo project is spearheading. 595 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,880 The value here is demonstrating that we need to be 596 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,279 actively documenting and challenging our own assumptions about what normal 597 00:30:23,359 --> 00:30:24,680 even looks like in the cosmos. 598 00:30:24,759 --> 00:30:27,839 Speaker 2: Absolutely, we can't let our preconceived notions stop us from 599 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,440 rigorously investigating truly anomalist data. The scientific impulse should be 600 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,519 the joy of a documented surprise. If we only ever 601 00:30:35,559 --> 00:30:37,799 look for what we expect to find, we'll never find 602 00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:40,119 the things that truly push the boundaries of our knowledge. 603 00:30:40,319 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: The case of three id Lost forces us to look 604 00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:45,400 beyond just ice and rock and ask if we're observing 605 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,519 a mechanism that implies intent. It does, and that leads 606 00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:51,119 us to our final provocative thought for you to take 607 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,400 with you. Let's go back to that conservative view for 608 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,680 just a moment. Let's say that, against all these anomalies, 609 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,720 three i at Lyes eventually does to be entirely natural. Okay, 610 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,720 if future data reveals some incredibly complex, non standard commentary 611 00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:13,319 physics that perfectly explains the coordinated, massive, non smeared structure, 612 00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:17,039 what profound implication does that hold for our understanding of 613 00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:17,599 the universe. 614 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 2: Well, if nature, through just random stellar formation and chaotic forces, 615 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,920 can spontaneously create an object that perfectly mimics the behavior 616 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,400 and the structural elegance of a technological vessel, it would 617 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,000 mean that the natural processes of the cosmos are far 618 00:31:32,079 --> 00:31:35,559 more capable, far more structured, and far more complex than 619 00:31:35,599 --> 00:31:38,920 we ever imagine. We'd be revolutionizing physics, could revolutionize not 620 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,680 just the search for aliens, but the fundamental physics of 621 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,359 how planetary building blocks form in other star systems. So 622 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,279 in a way, it's a win win for profound discovery, 623 00:31:48,319 --> 00:31:49,920 regardless of what the ultimate verdict is. 624 00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:53,559 Speaker 1: We need those high resolution images to finally stop being processed. 625 00:31:53,799 --> 00:31:56,279 Speaker 2: Indeed, we wait and we watch the skies. 626 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,599 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us for the deep dive. We 627 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,039 look forward to exploring the next frontier of knowledge with 628 00:32:02,079 --> 00:32:02,440 you soon