WEBVTT 1 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:24.199 Welcome to patse of America on Tommy v Tour. As 2 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:27.800 we speak, the Nagamedia world is fracturing, and many of 3 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:30.839 its leading voices are desperately trying to figure out what 4 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:34.840 a post Trump NAGA movement will mean for them. For some, 5 00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:37.039 this is about business. They want to know if they 6 00:00:37.079 --> 00:00:39.799 can maintain the same level of clicks, of ad sales, 7 00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:42.880 of paid promotion deals in a post Trump political world. 8 00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:46.039 But for others, it's about influence and a desire to 9 00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:49.719 steer the Republican Party to a new place, in some cases, 10 00:00:49.799 --> 00:00:52.159 a much more extreme place. What we're talking about is 11 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:54.920 ultimately a battle for the soul and attention of the 12 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:58.039 NAGA movement, and it's being fought as we speak. In 13 00:00:58.079 --> 00:01:01.640 the podcast, YouTube and TikTok. Trend is often on shows 14 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:04.159 or on platforms that most Democrats have never heard of, 15 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:08.560 but have enormous reach and influence in conservative circles, especially 16 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:12.359 younger conservative circles. So to help me understand and track 17 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:14.560 where the NAGA movement is going, I'm joined today by 18 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:18.359 Will Summer from The Bulwark. Will's newsletter False Flag is 19 00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:21.120 a twice weekly deep dive into right wing online culture 20 00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:23.439 in the communities around it, and it is a must 21 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:26.760 read for me every week. He has an unparalleled understanding 22 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:29.439 of who makes up this world, where it's going, what 23 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:33.000 they're talking about, the weird, petty, pathetic infighting between them. 24 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:35.840 It is fascinating stuff. Now, unfortunately for all of us, 25 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:39.079 right wing media is incredibly popular, which is why we 26 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:42.719 hear at Crooked Media are trying to create a progressive alternative. 27 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:44.799 The best way you can help us is to become 28 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:47.079 a Friend of the pod subscriber for about ten bucks 29 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:49.159 a month, you get bonus episodes of Pod Save America, 30 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:51.480 You get ad free episodes, you get deep dives into 31 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:54.480 the latest polling data from Dan Pfeiffer, and tons more 32 00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:57.319 bonus content. And you also can get discounted tickets to 33 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.760 or upcoming Crooked Con conference and fun on site perks. 34 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:03.359 So check that out. Go to Crooked dot com slash 35 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:06.359 friends to learn more. And now here's my conversation with 36 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:14.919 Will Summer. So Will your coworker Sarah Longwell got a 37 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:18.000 bunch of grief recently for saying that a surprising name 38 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:21.199 keeps coming up in her focus groups when she's asking 39 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:24.039 people who they think should run for president. Candace Owen. 40 00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:26.560 And again, this is not people saying that they like 41 00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:30.400 Candace's content. It's voters saying they would vote for Candace 42 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:33.719 Owens for president. Now, I'm sure people listening to this 43 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:36.240 are thinking, like, shut up, Tommy, that is dumb, this 44 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:40.840 is insane. She is bonkers in to them. I say, sure, 45 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:42.759 I agree with you, but I think the point is 46 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:45.560 that a lot of people don't. So, just to start 47 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:48.520 with the basics, who is Candace Owens and why do 48 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:51.360 you think she is so popular and influential to the 49 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:53.000 point where people want to run for president? 50 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:57.280 Sure, so, Candace Owns is a woman who emerged. She's 51 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:00.639 from sort of the right wing media eco system that 52 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:02.960 kind of these classic characters working for people like Dennis 53 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:06.039 Prager and Ben Shapiro, and then for the past year 54 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:09.400 or so, past two years, she's become this sort of 55 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:13.840 insurgent right wing conspiracy theorist, very anti Semitic. She pushes 56 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:17.240 a lot of crazy ideas about most notably Charlie Kirk's assassination. 57 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:19.439 She used to work with him and they were friends, 58 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:24.120 and she's sort of been, you know, building this YouTube 59 00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:27.280 empire off of both conspiracy theories and also sort of 60 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:30.840 more mainstream celebrity gossip coverage, and so I think she's 61 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:34.199 managed to really sort of diversify her audience beyond just 62 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:36.120 sort of people who listened to talk radio or watch 63 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:36.719 Fox News. 64 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:39.280 Yeah, I mean so Candice's biggest or at least sort 65 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:42.159 of like splashiest most recent interview was a surprising one. 66 00:03:42.199 --> 00:03:44.960 It was with Hunter Biden, of all people. Before that, 67 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:47.080 like you said, she's spent months and months and months 68 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:50.680 just relentlessly focused on the assassination of Charlie Kirk and 69 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:54.800 spreading conspiracy theories about it of all shapes and sizes, 70 00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:58.159 like planes were tracking Charlie, that there was like a 71 00:03:58.159 --> 00:04:01.120 false flag operation. She seems to just that Erica Kirk, 72 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:03.719 Charlie Kirk's wife, might have been the killer. And then 73 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:07.039 before that there was this endless series of videos she 74 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:10.360 did alleging that French president of Meno Macron's wife is 75 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:14.000 in fact a man. So, just for folks who haven't 76 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:16.399 listened to Candace much like, here's a clip of Candace 77 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:18.920 on Pierce Morgan's show that I think will give you 78 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:21.399 a sense of the vibe that comes out of a 79 00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:22.519 lot of our content. Let's watch. 80 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:24.360 Why are we pretending that we don't know why we 81 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:25.959 ask questions like why you're. 82 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:28.319 A journalist, you know what there is? You're like, what's 83 00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:28.759 going on? 84 00:04:28.839 --> 00:04:30.439 What's going on? Why do you want to know why 85 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:32.560 these planes were tracking Charlie? And that is the reason 86 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:34.639 why people are watching my show because I'm the only 87 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:37.879 one not treating them like they're absolute idiots. Okay, don't 88 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:40.120 have too nice you believe in magic bullet earis and 89 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.399 who understands that Egyptian plains should not have been tracking 90 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:46.720 Charlie even three times this year would be an anomaly. Okay, 91 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:49.319 they've been tracking him. We don't know where it's going to. 92 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:52.000 So we are going to keep asking questions until we 93 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:53.360 get clear answers. 94 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:57.240 So she was yelling about Egyptian planes tracking Charlie Kirk. 95 00:04:57.560 --> 00:05:01.279 I mean, like, I what is her beat? You mentioned? 96 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:03.319 I think she has like celebrity stuff. She just pop culture? 97 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:06.120 Somebody is her beat just conspiracy? Like how would you 98 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:06.639 define it? 99 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:06.920 Yeah? 100 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:09.240 You know, it's interesting. I mean I think this she 101 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:12.319 has sort of cohered around this idea that there are 102 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:16.920 these sort of pedophile Epstein class powers that be that 103 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:19.920 are very closely linked to Israel, closely linked to sort 104 00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:23.839 of centuries old Jewish cults and cabals. I mean, you 105 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:27.720 mentioned Brigitte Macrone. It's not just that Brigitte Macrone is trans, 106 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:30.360 but it's that, like the Macrones are part of this 107 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:34.759 ancient Jewish network going back to the Middle Ages. The 108 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:39.720 francis yes, exactly, yes. I mean even if you listen 109 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:41.879 to it, it often like I can get this sense 110 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:43.600 of it can be kind of hard to describe because 111 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:46.120 in part because it's just you listen to it and 112 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:48.319 it's it's like so crazy, and she kind of she 113 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:51.680 doesn't really bother to like make a coherent theory per se. 114 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:54.439 She more just kind of throws stuff out. She goes, oh, 115 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:56.720 isn't that weird? Isn't that weird? And then suddenly you 116 00:05:56.800 --> 00:05:59.959 find yourself that she's walked you to Erica kirk murder 117 00:05:59.879 --> 00:06:03.399 her husband or Bergitta Crona's trans And she often will 118 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:06.519 sort of abandon things as they're disproven. So like she'll say, 119 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:08.399 I think that guy in the crowd at the assassination 120 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:10.680 is acting weird, and then that guy will have an 121 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:12.959 excuse and she'll say, ah, well never mind, you know, 122 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:15.279 moving on, you know, And so there isn't so much 123 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:20.560 one conspiracy theory as this general sense of like antisemitic, capeful, 124 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:23.439 this sense of like the cabal runs the world. 125 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:25.800 Yeah, I mean, like when I listen to Candas's stuff, 126 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:28.040 I find myself getting lost in the sauce and not 127 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:30.160 able to follow her, and we're like down all these 128 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:32.720 conspiracy roads. But the reason I led with her and 129 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:36.079 her in our next subject, Hucker Carlson, is because the 130 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:39.240 normies in my life who text me about politics mention 131 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:42.399 those two the most. So, like much like Sarah's focus group, 132 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:44.879 like Candas, I feel like is very influential. And also 133 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:49.279 she's been waging this battle against Turning Point USA TPUSA 134 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:53.279 ever since Kirk's assassination. And TPUSA, for those who don't know, 135 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:59.360 was an incredibly influential media political, kind of voter turnout organization. 136 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:02.199 But now she seems to have done some damage to it. 137 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:03.720 Or I guess that's the question. I mean, how much 138 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:07.879 damage do you think Candas has done to TPUSA through 139 00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:09.199 this kind of ongoing fighting. 140 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:11.160 Yeah, I mean I think Candace and sort of the 141 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:14.240 conspiracy theorists around her have actually done a lot of 142 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:17.079 damage to Turning Point. I mean they have created this 143 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:19.639 sense of, you know, after the Charlie Kirk assassination, there 144 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:21.519 was a lot of good will towards Turning Point, a 145 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:23.959 lot of sense that I think both Trump and that 146 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:27.319 organization we're going to capitalize on after the murder. But 147 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:30.839 instead Cannas has said, well, maybe Erica Kirk kills her husband. 148 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.519 Maybe this organization, you know, she's picked out all these 149 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:36.839 individual executives, maybe they were involved in these murders. And 150 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:39.360 I think, you know, anecdotally, if you look at like 151 00:07:39.399 --> 00:07:42.160 groups of conservative moms, they'll say, oh, well, we were 152 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:44.759 going to order some Turning Point shirts, but now you know, 153 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:47.319 we don't want to be associated with them, stuff like that. 154 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:49.399 I mean, I think it's been, at at best for 155 00:07:49.399 --> 00:07:51.120 a Turning Point, a big distraction. I think it's been 156 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:52.000 a lot more damaging. 157 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:52.680 Yeah. 158 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:55.920 Do you think Candace actually has political ambitions, because it 159 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:57.879 seems like she kind of flirts with maybe running for 160 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:00.000 office in some of her answers. But I don't know, 161 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:01.759 Maybe that's just a way to keep yourself in the news. 162 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:03.839 You know, it's a good question. I don't think it's 163 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:06.560 hard for me to imagine her running, just because I 164 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:08.839 think she has such a good thing going right now. 165 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:12.160 I mean, she's making so much money. She's making, you know, 166 00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:14.600 tens of thousands of dollars per video. She's putting out 167 00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:17.040 four or five videos a week. I mean, you know, 168 00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:19.600 I think she has far more influence at the point where, 169 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:22.720 you know, I think it's relatively credible reports that Macrone 170 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:25.920 complained to Trump and asked him to have Candice cut 171 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:28.240 these things off. I mean that shows you sort of 172 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:31.360 the influence that she enjoys. So I think she could 173 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:33.480 run for offices she wanted, but I think right now, 174 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:35.399 I think she'd be foolish to do it. I think 175 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:36.440 she's happy right where. 176 00:08:36.279 --> 00:08:38.320 She is until the French clean her out in this 177 00:08:38.679 --> 00:08:39.480 libel lawsuit. 178 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:41.399 Yes, and now some turning you know, at least one 179 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:44.000 turning point person issuing her. I think there's more to come. 180 00:08:44.679 --> 00:08:47.320 You know, her husband is this mega wealthy British guy, 181 00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:49.080 so they may be able to weather that. But I 182 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:52.360 think ultimately these lawsuits, you know, just as Alex Jones 183 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:54.679 was able to avoid it until he couldn't, I think 184 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:55.840 she could face the same issue. 185 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:57.919 Yeah, not fun. Okay, Let's turn to another sort of 186 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:00.440 heavyweight in this fight for the future of mag which 187 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:03.960 is Tucker Carlson. So Tucker's career arc is fascinating to me. 188 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:05.440 He was widely viewed, as you know, one of the 189 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:08.799 best magazine writers of his generation. Then he bumped along 190 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:11.360 in various TV jobs for a while, including stints at 191 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:14.879 CNN and MSNBC. Those sort of eventually ended or failed 192 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:16.840 in some way. Then he got picked up at Fox 193 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:20.000 and was kind of like a weekend journeyman until he 194 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:22.600 got on the Trump train early and then parlayed that 195 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:27.279 support relationship. You know, I don't know, Just focus into 196 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:30.960 the highest rated show in the history of cable news 197 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:34.720 before he was suddenly fired in twenty twenty three, and 198 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:37.600 then after getting fired, Tucker started his own news network 199 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:40.360 and show. He currently has about five point six million 200 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:43.360 YouTube subscribers, which is more than his old show in 201 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:46.080 terms of the aggregate ratings. So do with that information 202 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:47.679 what you will. Obviously not all of those people are 203 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:50.200 watching every episode, but it's a lot. And then more 204 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:52.440 recently he's kind of brooken with Trump on some issues, 205 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:55.919 particularly on Iran in US policy towards Israel, but a 206 00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:59.120 lot of the critiques were at times very harsh and 207 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:02.159 very personal. So, you know, will in your opinion, where 208 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:05.840 does Tucker rank in terms of kind of influence in 209 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:08.360 this media world we're talking about today. He is he 210 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:09.080 number one. 211 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:11.039 You know, it can be hard to quite figure out. 212 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:13.440 I mean, I think he's very influential. I think he 213 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:15.960 sits at a unique point, which is, you know, someone 214 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:18.480 like Candio and someone like Nick Fuentes, people kind of 215 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:21.240 further than that on the right or more into conspiracy theories. 216 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:24.240 They're sort of existing in this kind of insurgent anti 217 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:27.759 Trump from the right world. Tucker sort of straddles both camps. 218 00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:29.080 I mean, he has a lot of influence in the 219 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:31.919 White House. He's still seen as enough of a mainstream 220 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:35.639 conservative figure to appear at Turning Point USA conventions for example. 221 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:37.759 On the other hand, he has this kind of growing 222 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:42.080 credibility with the anti Mago right, you know what might 223 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:44.879 call themselves the America First Movement, people like Margie Taylor Green, 224 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:48.320 Fuente's Candace, and so I think he's sort of uniquely 225 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:52.080 able there to mainstream these really hateful and toxic ideas 226 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:54.360 like having Nick Fuentes on his show for a very 227 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:57.879 nice sit down interview, while also let's say, having ties 228 00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:00.600 to the Heritage Foundation and getting support from them. So 229 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:02.600 in that way, I think he's very powerful, and as 230 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:04.519 you said, he also has a massive audience just on 231 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:04.919 his own. 232 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:09.559 Yeah. So let's watch a recent clip from the Israeli 233 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:13.200 Ambassador to the United Nations, Danny Dannon, talking about a 234 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:15.120 phone call he got from Tucker Carls. So then I'll 235 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:15.960 ask you a question about it. 236 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:19.799 You told me, ambassador, can you please take me off 237 00:11:19.879 --> 00:11:22.799 the list? And I was shocked. I told him, what 238 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:25.799 are you talking about? You told me I'm being attacked 239 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:30.000 by the Jews, so maybe you have like a list. 240 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:33.159 Can you take me off the list? So I waited 241 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:36.440 for a minute, and I told him, mister Carlson, we 242 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:39.240 don't have a list. You are being attacked because you're 243 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:40.279 spreading live. 244 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:43.639 It's an interesting phone call there. So of all the 245 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:47.000 people will discuss today, Tucker seems to be among the 246 00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:50.879 most interested in shaping policy, or at least the Republican 247 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:54.360 Party's policy views, especially US policy towards Israel. He's been 248 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:57.559 a fierce critic of Israeli Prime Minister be Being in Yahoo, 249 00:11:57.639 --> 00:11:59.639 He's been a fierce critic of the war in Iran. 250 00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:03.519 You US policy towards Israel generally at times, as you mentioned, 251 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:06.799 I think that criticism has veered into anti Semitic territory 252 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:10.360 in some really troubling language. Do you think that his 253 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:16.039 general motive is policy focused or is he is this political? 254 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:17.879 Is this like kind of Tucker knows where the puck 255 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:21.000 is going and he's skating there by becoming more isolationists. 256 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:23.240 I think throughout his career, I mean you mentioned these 257 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:25.639 kind of different changes he's done, you know, whether it's 258 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:28.279 like a writer at the Weekly Standard or than Fox 259 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.639 News or now this. I think he's a guy who 260 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:34.320 is very interested. Maybe it's a mix. I think he's 261 00:12:34.360 --> 00:12:36.480 trying to stay ahead of things. I think he recognizes 262 00:12:36.759 --> 00:12:38.519 that things like the Iran War are going to be 263 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:41.039 unpopular with Republicans and only get more so as the 264 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:44.480 years goes on, So he's trying to avoid associating himself 265 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:46.919 with that. But I think also being fired from Fox 266 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:49.240 News really sort of radicalized him and sort of caused 267 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:51.639 him to seek out these more extreme politics where he 268 00:12:51.639 --> 00:12:54.320 could sort of stake out his own, his own position 269 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:56.759 in a way that wouldn't just look like another Fox 270 00:12:56.840 --> 00:12:57.720 News type person. 271 00:12:57.879 --> 00:12:59.600 Do you think, I mean a lot of people worry 272 00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:02.080 or what under if he is setting himself up for 273 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:04.120 a run for president, and you know, like I can 274 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:05.799 make a pretty compellit case for it. I mean, he's 275 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:09.519 a huge media figure. He is probably universal name idea 276 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:13.559 in the Republican Party. He has I think carved out 277 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:17.000 this interesting lane to I don't know how how big 278 00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:19.320 the lane is, but there is an isolationist lane in 279 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:22.480 the Republican Party right and Trump, you know, was courting 280 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:24.799 them and then went back on everything he told them 281 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:27.000 in the campaign when he went to war with a run. 282 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:29.679 Do you view what Tucker is doing as some sort 283 00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:30.799 of like political setup. 284 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:33.039 I think it's very possible that he could run for 285 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:35.080 president or some other office. I mean, I think if 286 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:37.960 we look in twenty twenty eight, the lane for someone 287 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:41.240 who opposed the war, who's kind of a more populist figure, 288 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:42.559 is pretty open. 289 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:43.320 You know. 290 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:45.759 Jd Vance, I think is going to be damaged both 291 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:49.000 by his association with the Trump administration but also by 292 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:51.559 associations with people like Peter Thiel, all these kind of 293 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:54.039 tech oligarchs. And so I think if you have someone 294 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:56.840 like Tucker Carlson who could say, oh, I hate AI 295 00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:59.159 data centers and you know, we got to go back 296 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:01.120 to you know, he's up in this cabin in May, 297 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:02.600 and he says, you know, I just want to have 298 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.039 you know, grow my family and you know, you know, 299 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:07.559 go back to the traditional American ways. I think that 300 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:09.000 would appeal to some people. I mean, I think it 301 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:11.320 would be a risk for him to run, because potentially 302 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:13.399 he could kind of get crushed like a bug somehow 303 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:15.720 and then you know, lose his audience. But I think 304 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:19.679 more so than Candace or someone else like other media figures, 305 00:14:19.720 --> 00:14:21.720 I think he's the one I see most likely is 306 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:22.399 potentially running. 307 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:22.600 Yeah. 308 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:24.600 Mean, it's fascinating because so many people run for president 309 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:27.039 knowing they're going to lose, but they know they'll hand 310 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:29.840 them a giant megaphone, and like Tucker has a giant megaphone. 311 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:31.759 It's totally unclear to me, like you were saying with 312 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:36.120 Candace earlier, like would getting in politics benefit or hurt 313 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:39.759 them because they're such heavyweights already. It's just not obvious. 314 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:41.960 Yeah, I agree, And you know he might also throw 315 00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:44.679 himself behind ah gosh, like maybe Joe Kent, the counter 316 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:47.320 terror chief who resigned. I mean, seems like someone who's 317 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:49.840 potentially setting up a run for office. So I think 318 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:52.000 on the other hand, you know, he was very supportive 319 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.080 of JD Vance, only to see that kind of fizzle 320 00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:56.159 out and JD Vance to support the war. So I 321 00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:57.840 could see maybe if he's like, you know, I got 322 00:14:57.840 --> 00:14:58.879 to get this done myself. 323 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:01.279 Yeah. So before we keep going, can I just ask 324 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:03.879 how the hell did you get on this beat? Because 325 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.480 we've spoken a bunch of times, like I have a 326 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:08.480 whole bucket of questions coming up about the kind of 327 00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:11.840 like Nazi adjacent media space. You end up having to 328 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:14.519 consume all of that content, you have to learn about 329 00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:16.639 all these terrible people. How did you get into this 330 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:17.360 this focus? 331 00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:19.960 So I was a sort of young teen Republican in 332 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:23.120 Texas and I just had a huge I consumed a 333 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:25.279 lot of conservative media talk radio and Fox News and 334 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:28.000 all this. And then during the second of the George W. 335 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:30.200 Bush administration and my politics change, I thought it was 336 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:32.840 just awful. He did such a bad job, but I 337 00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:35.159 still was like, you know, I still had such a 338 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.240 passion for right wing media. And then you know, a 339 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:39.200 couple of years went by, and then I was following 340 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:41.519 figures like Ben Shapiro, whose whole thing was that he 341 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:43.440 was a virgin at the time, and you know, it 342 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:46.399 wasn't that novel. It was all these characters. And then 343 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:48.960 in twenty sixteen, I was at a party and people 344 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.399 were like, have you heard about Laura Lumer and Milo Uanopolis? 345 00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:53.480 And I thought, oh, my gosh, people are finally interested 346 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:55.279 in these people, and so I started writing about them. 347 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:56.399 No, I see, you were like, I'm just going to 348 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:58.120 make this my thing and focus on these folks. 349 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.360 Yeah, and you know, I mean there's you know, as 350 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:02.759 we've discovered. I mean, there's really sort of an endless 351 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:04.840 well of bizarre stories about them. 352 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.960 Well, sometimes I'll I'll find myself sitting in bed with 353 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:10.720 headphones in, not speaking to my wife at ten pm 354 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:14.080 because I'm streaming something horrible, and I wonder what it's 355 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:17.000 doing to my mental health? Does it impact yours? Are 356 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:18.720 you able to divorce the two? 357 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:20.519 No, it's a good question. I think I just have 358 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:23.840 a really high tolerance. I really enjoy the twists and 359 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:26.000 the turns, you know, whether it's kind of the personalities 360 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:31.080 or the appearance of a new idea or ideology. Similarly, 361 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:32.879 you know, I do a lot while I'm cooking for 362 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:35.159 my kids, and so I run through these videos and 363 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:37.080 my wife will come down and see, you know, five 364 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:40.000 people hunched over a computer, you know, broadcasting something, and 365 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:42.559 she'll like, you know, that certainly looks like something you'd 366 00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:43.039 be watching. 367 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:46.080 Speaking of great replacements, we're gonna do onions instead of 368 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:49.679 scallions in this Yes, honey. 369 00:16:56.559 --> 00:16:58.759 Positive America's brought you by sleep. Me, when was the 370 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:00.320 last time you went to bed before mid night without 371 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:02.240 your phone beaming blue light at you're wearily little lies? 372 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:04.319 A while? 373 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:05.440 Me, it's been a minute. 374 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:07.880 Nothing pairs worse with trying to fall asleep than having 375 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:09.759 a full breakdown of the latest news cycle running on 376 00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:12.119 loop in your head. That's absolutely true. True, But here's 377 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:14.480 the thing. You're you're tired because the news is exhausting, 378 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:16.799 but you're also tired because your body didn't recover from 379 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:18.319 the day. The good news is you can do something 380 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:20.160 about it, and it's simply then you think you can 381 00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:23.440 lower your bed temperature. Enter Chili Pad two point zero, 382 00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:26.039 the water based mattress topper that actively controls your bed 383 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:28.319 temperature from fifty five to one hundred and fifteen degrees 384 00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:30.279 all night long. You can sou v yourself if you like. 385 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:33.200 No new mattress, no renovation, It fits over what you 386 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:35.480 already have. I have a chili Pad and I fucking 387 00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:38.519 love it. Rock It's awesome. I can set my temperature 388 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:41.400 different than the temperature already sets their temperature to. 389 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:43.119 You can make your bed warm when you're cold. 390 00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:44.519 You can make your bed cold when you're hot. 391 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:45.160 Because a lot of. 392 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:47.880 People battle with their significant other about the temperature in 393 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:51.000 the room and during the day, it's okay. At night, 394 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:52.240 this is an existential war. 395 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:54.720 Yes, you're sleep Yes, some people like to sleep cold, 396 00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:56.759 some people like to sleep hot and so and by 397 00:17:56.799 --> 00:17:58.720 the way, like you can you know, rather than make 398 00:17:58.759 --> 00:18:00.920 the room really cold, you can keep the room at 399 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.240 like a normal temperature and then you can just make 400 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:05.880 your bed a little bit colder. It's awesome. I highly 401 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:09.279