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Are you feeling lucky? 26 00:00:57.159 --> 00:00:57.320 Nope? 27 00:00:57.439 --> 00:00:58.960 Not necessary boid. We we're gon be my low eighteen 28 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:02.960 plus terms and conditions of plus Zuck Tabian. 29 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:15.519 You are now listening to True Murder, The Most Shocking 30 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:18.640 Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have 31 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:26.000 written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 32 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:29.680 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 33 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:34.319 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 34 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:37.200 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 35 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:49.519 Good Evening. This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 36 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:52.719 program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True Crime 37 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:56.560 History and the authors that have written about them. Victoria 38 00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:01.319 Redstell is a glamorous model, actress, filmmaker, and investigative journalist 39 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:05.200 who has spent years visiting high security prisons and interviewing 40 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:09.479 sadistic killers like Gary Ray Boles and Keith Hunter Jefferson, 41 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:13.560 the Happy Face Killer. These hardened killers have opened up 42 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:15.400 to her in a way that they would never do 43 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:20.159 to psychiatrists, prosecutors, or other authority figures, and have as 44 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.120 a result, revealed terrifying chapters of their lives that might 45 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:27.240 otherwise have stayed hidden forever. In this chilling book, she 46 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:31.159 shares every detail and insight, bringing the reader up close 47 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:33.919 and very personal with some of the most dangerous and 48 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:37.759 disturbed serial killers that the world has ever seen. The 49 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:41.400 book work profiled this evening is serial Killers up Close 50 00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:44.520 and very Personal, My Death Row Interviews with the most 51 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:48.039 dangerous men on the planet with my special guest journalists 52 00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:51.800 and act journalist and author Victoria Redstell. Welcome to the 53 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:56.560 program and thank you for agreeing to this interview. Victoria Redstell, thank. 54 00:02:56.360 --> 00:02:58.000 You for having me, Dan, Thanks so much. 55 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:02.560 It's a big thrill, is very very interesting book. Let's 56 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:05.599 get right to probably the question that most people have 57 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:08.319 asked you or probably been asked as many times, and 58 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:12.199 I think our audience is interested as well, especially with 59 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:18.800 your background, why were you interested in writing this book? 60 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:25.520 And moreover, why were you, with your background, interested in 61 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:28.199 interviewing some of the most dangerous men on the planet, 62 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:34.879 serial killers, convicted psychopathic killers. Why were you interested in 63 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:36.800 this endeavor? 64 00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:40.719 Well, I would say when I was eleven years old 65 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:43.879 in England, we had very close family friends that were 66 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:47.719 actually murdered by mass murderer and another family was also murdered, 67 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:50.919 a family that I didn't know. This has discussed very 68 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:54.479 profound effect on my psyche at such a young formative 69 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:57.919 age that it shocked me, It upset me, it toward 70 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:01.599 my heart and my emotions when I was eleven. From 71 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:05.080 then I started to study books and use paper articles 72 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:09.680 and magazines and shows, and I found the most bizarline 73 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:12.719 set in the world is that all a mass murderer, 74 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:15.560 a serial killer. And I found it to be horrible 75 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:19.759 but also very interesting because it's so hard to understand. 76 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:26.560 Right now, how did it? How did for this book itself? 77 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:33.639 You've picked five notorious maybe not completely well known, but 78 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:39.399 very notorious killers. What is there was a criteria for 79 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:42.720 the book in terms of the people you chose. I 80 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:45.120 mean you went in and interviewed these people. So but 81 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:49.040 tell us how you came to interview these five people, 82 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:52.759 or pick these five people, or have these five men 83 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:56.079 cooperate with you. How did it come about for these 84 00:04:56.519 --> 00:04:58.000 five subjects of your book? 85 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:02.319 Well, I probably started out with about twenty people that 86 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:06.399 I'd read about, heard about, or seen on television or 87 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:09.519 whatever it was. I studied them on the internet and 88 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:12.519 if they have killed at least three people with downtime 89 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:15.480 in between, or convicted of that, that makes them a 90 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:18.680 serial killer. And I wanted to focus my first book 91 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:20.759 or my main book that I was doing on my 92 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:24.680 own on serial killers, not mass murderers, and nothing else. 93 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:27.360 So I wrote to about twenty, so you have to 94 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:31.240 understand it's a numbers game. Not everyone responded. Maybe about 95 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:34.279 eight responded, and then a few I got bored of 96 00:05:34.519 --> 00:05:36.759 or I fell by the wayside. They're saying they're innocent. 97 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:40.480 There's some that interested me more and some that didn't. 98 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:42.759 And what it really is, it was all down to 99 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:45.560 can I fly out to that state, can I get 100 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:48.079 them on camera? Can I go on their visiting list? 101 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:51.439 What's the protocol with that particular death row or prison? 102 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:55.240 And it was basically the five people I chose, which 103 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:58.240 took me just over a year to fill that up, 104 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:00.120 and then I wrote a book. And I also I've 105 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:03.040 got them all long camera, so I've also got hard 106 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:08.319 drives filled with exclusive interviews or possible future television shows. 107 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:10.920 So that's why I chose those five. But really I 108 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:12.160 probably chose about twenty. 109 00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:19.639 Incredible. Now, just before we start, name the five subjects, 110 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:23.600 and then we'll go probably in ch chronological order, just 111 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:26.920 like your book, because there's probably good reason, and there 112 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:29.560 is good reason why you start with who you start with. 113 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:32.720 So tell us the five subjects, introduce the five subjects 114 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:34.560 that are in your book. 115 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:38.160 Okay, I'll try so many of these serial killers because 116 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:40.279 I'm writing a current book as well. So with the 117 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:43.439 book that you're specifically talking about, it would be Wayne 118 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:48.560 adam Ford, Keith Under Jefferson's, Gary Ray Bowles, Bobby Joe Long, 119 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:52.839 and Robin Gex And yes there is an order. And 120 00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:56.240 the reason why Wayne adam Ford is number one is 121 00:06:56.279 --> 00:06:59.240 because he's actually the very first serial killer that I 122 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:02.560 ever met in the flesh, and he was somebody I 123 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:06.399 wanted to create a documentary on. I found him to 124 00:07:06.439 --> 00:07:10.120 be highly interesting because he had a conscience enough to 125 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:14.600 turn himself in from remorse, and that to me, I'd 126 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:17.399 never heard of it all my studies, all my life. 127 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:21.399 So I found his story not only very redeeming and 128 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:24.959 him as a person redeeming, but also there was a 129 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:29.120 victim that never was identified. So with those two main 130 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:33.439 bullet points of this person's makeup and story, I thought 131 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:36.000 I cannot just create a book on him. I can 132 00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:39.399 actually go out there and create TV documentary And that 133 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:42.759 was my original plan, and there was a lot of 134 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:47.480 restrictions with the Sam Beernardino jail, not allowing Camerton, and 135 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:50.680 then him go to death row again not allowing Camerton. 136 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:54.279 So I had my moments in the courtroom. I spoke 137 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:56.720 to him every day on the telephone, and I built 138 00:07:56.800 --> 00:08:00.199 up footage enough where I could compile. I thought to 139 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:04.120 make a documentary that didn't quite work out, so instead 140 00:08:04.199 --> 00:08:06.199 he became chapter number one of my book. 141 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:11.759 Well let's lose that as an introduction to Wade adam 142 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:14.680 Ford and tell us about this. This is an incredible case, 143 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:19.560 incredible killer. Tell us about Wade atam Ford, and especially 144 00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:24.839 tell us how your correspondents start with that, How you 145 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:28.639 began corresponding, What was the tone of your course, your 146 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:31.959 initial correspondence to him to try to convince him that 147 00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:37.200 you were a journalist and it was in his interest 148 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:38.919 to be able to speak to you and that he 149 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:40.840 could trust you. How did you go about doing that? 150 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:42.399 Well? 151 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:43.840 I actually. 152 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:47.679 Went after waiting forward because he was the only serial 153 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:52.120 killer in the vicinity of La southern California. 154 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:53.600 That I could actually meet. 155 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:56.480 Because there's so many few people in California that are 156 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:00.360 usually all on death row or life in prison. I 157 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.559 wanted to start in the county or in a surrounding 158 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:07.360 County where I lived. I wanted him to trust me, 159 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:09.519 but I didn't want to give him my name because 160 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:12.480 I didn't want myself to go on camera. I wanted 161 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:14.519 to be behind the camera for the first time in 162 00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:16.840 my life. I wanted the serial killer to think my 163 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:19.440 last name was Smith. I went by a fake name 164 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:22.679 called Claire Smith, and I wanted to just win him over, 165 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:25.480 win his trust with just him looking in my eyes 166 00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:28.600 and trusting me. But that didn't work because he didn't 167 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:31.960 trust me initially, and he got very cross that I 168 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:34.720 would not give him my last name, and I was 169 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:37.440 certainly not about to give him my last name nor anybody, 170 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:41.120 so when I wanted when I met with him in 171 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:43.799 the jail, I did tell the deputy, I'd like to 172 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.080 go on a tour of the jail, which is an 173 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:48.639 area I went to. You're not allowed to go as 174 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:51.720 a civilian or even anyone touring that jail cannot go 175 00:09:51.879 --> 00:09:56.960 to a certain unit because it's administrative segregated inmates highly dangerous, 176 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:00.360 and they're kept away from all other inmates. So any 177 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:01.879 other unit I cout I could have gone to, but 178 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:04.840 not that one. I convinced the deputy because it was 179 00:10:04.879 --> 00:10:08.080 a Sunday, nobody was around in authority. Please let me in. 180 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:11.399 I just want to meet Wayne Adam Ford. I did 181 00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:14.200 push the limits, push the envelope, say what you will. 182 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:16.240 I'm a journalist. You know you've got to push those 183 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:19.679 doors down. And I met with this man and I said, 184 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:22.000 in my innocent way, I had no makeup on and 185 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:24.639 my jacket was done up to my chin. I said, 186 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:26.679 you know, mister Ford, would it be in a fake 187 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:30.240 American accent? Mister Ford? Would it be possible for me 188 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:34.399 to write a story about you? And he said, only 189 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:37.039 if you don't officialize me. I said no, no, no, 190 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:40.120 mister Ford, I won't. And he said, well, what's your name? 191 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:45.240 My name is Claire, my last name is Smith. And 192 00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:47.879 he's looking at me like you're right. And from then 193 00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:51.159 on he was determined to find out my last name. 194 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:53.679 And I never gave it up. And I was sitting 195 00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:56.840 in the courtroom every day. The media wanted to know 196 00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:59.879 my last name. The defense was suspicious it wasn't no 197 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.519 last name. They went jailed to find out my last name, 198 00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:06.080 but I kind of secretly went in on my middle name. 199 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:08.519 But I did not want my last name out. But 200 00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:10.960 then when I was put on the stand in his trial. 201 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:14.000 In the penalty phase, I had to state my name 202 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:16.360 for the jury. And then of course all the papers 203 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:18.399 got hold of the fact that you know, I do 204 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:21.519 modeling as well and hosting and on TV, and then 205 00:11:21.559 --> 00:11:24.120 scandal broke out across the world, and then they made 206 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:26.600 up a romance story between me and the serial color, 207 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:28.600 which is so far from the truth. 208 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:34.039 Is well, yeah, so was your first daste of the 209 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:38.360 media backlash or yeah, it's not even a backlash, doesn't 210 00:11:38.360 --> 00:11:39.200 even make sense, but. 211 00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:42.679 Yeah, the model in the seral Killer. I mean, I 212 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.679 can understand for ratings or for you know, getting me 213 00:11:47.159 --> 00:11:49.440 people to buy the paper, and but I mean they 214 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:51.480 really rate me through the cold, and it caused a 215 00:11:51.559 --> 00:11:54.960 lot of problems for companies I represent, like Lamborghini and 216 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:58.120 Ralph Laurence Hughes and all these companies they put they 217 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:02.720 couldn't have me associated with their car, or with their shoes, 218 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:05.320 or with Harley Davidson. And I was dropped by a 219 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:08.679 number of company because now I'm associated with a cerial color, 220 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:11.879 which then makes LAMBORGINI associated with a serial color. So 221 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:16.559 it was absolute hell, and I all I wanted was 222 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:19.279 to stay behind the scenes go buy a different name 223 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:22.200 and not even go on camera. So that was my 224 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:25.360 whole point. And then, of course, because I was going 225 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:28.240 to do this whole show with the documentary, people said no, 226 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.519 add that to the story. That's what documentaries are. It's 227 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:33.759 saying the truth. It's saying the hell you went through. 228 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:36.279 So I did, and I exposed it. And this is 229 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:40.080 why I've put myself, my personality, and my life into 230 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:42.960 the book is I want to connect with people from 231 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:45.720 all walks of life so they can see that I'm 232 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:48.559 not oh, going in and asking a bite of questions 233 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:50.919 to a serial color. I wanted to know what hell 234 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:53.240 I went through to get there, and the how I 235 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:56.200 went through during the process. And here I am, you 236 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:58.559 know the world. Here I am for you to pick 237 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:01.000 out if you want. I'm mostly going to tell you 238 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:04.000 a story and hopefully you can connect enough to steal 239 00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:05.639 that you were right there with me. 240 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:13.559 Yes, I mean this is interesting what you're saying. This 241 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:18.840 is normally not the peruse of journalists. Journalists sometimes the 242 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:24.120 Ten Trials, often the Ten Trials, but very seldom interview 243 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:27.720 the subjects of their books. And you are doing You're 244 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:32.240 going over and beyond that with this. Now, with Wayne 245 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:34.919 adam Ford. Let's get back to Let's get to the 246 00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:37.919 crimes of Wayne adam Ford and how he came to 247 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:41.960 the attention of the police. 248 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:45.720 Well, he was never a suspect, that is the whole point. 249 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:49.159 He had to turn himself in because they weren't looking 250 00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:52.440 for him. And he has got tart him. He's not 251 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:55.039 schizophrenic or any of that, but there's a part of 252 00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:58.080 him that's got such a strong conscious that he knew 253 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:02.200 what he was doing was that wrong. Everything he was 254 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:05.360 doing was wrong. So he took himself out into the 255 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:08.519 woods so he didn't see any more people that he 256 00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:11.279 wanted to kill. And he went out into the woods 257 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:14.639 for days on end and tried to stop this feeling, 258 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:18.639 this overwhelming feeling to murder. We don't know what that's 259 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:21.480 like being normal people. Let's hope we don't. But we 260 00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:26.200 don't know what that overwhelming sensation is. But because of 261 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:31.399 his childhood, because the belieful combination, the leathful cocktail of abuse, 262 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:35.120 of a neglect, of abandonment, of a brain injury at 263 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:39.080 the age of seventeen, all these things get together in 264 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:42.240 someone's head and their brain and a matap. But later 265 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:45.200 one in life something small or beat could happen, and 266 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:48.320 books you become a math murderer, or a serial killer 267 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:51.519 or a crime of passion killer. And that was weighing 268 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:54.639 Ford's leathful cocktail. But the other side of it is 269 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.919 he did not want attention. He did not want the 270 00:14:58.039 --> 00:15:00.639 media to know him as any great name, or make 271 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:03.159 up a name on him, or taunt the cops. He 272 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:06.039 did not want to even keep killing. And this is 273 00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:08.360 why he did it. So this is why he is 274 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:12.279 more fascinating than any serial killer I've ever met so far. 275 00:15:12.679 --> 00:15:15.000 Hence he is the chapter number one of my book. 276 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:21.159 Right, yes, now, how did he come to the police's attention? 277 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:23.600 What did he What evidence did he bring into the 278 00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:26.919 police station so that he really didn't have to say 279 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:27.320 too much. 280 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.679 He bought in a woman's severed breast into the police 281 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:33.360 station in a zitlog bag and took that out of 282 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:35.759 his pocket and put it on the desk. That was 283 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:38.679 enough to say, I'm obviously not here for robbing a 284 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:42.000 liquor store. I have obviously killed human beings. There's no 285 00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:44.559 one I'm not a doctor, you know, I don't do 286 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:49.519 breast enhancement surgery. I am obviously clearly in army surface 287 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:53.039 outfit which he was out of his mind, but I'm 288 00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:55.960 very calmly placed it on the table with his brother 289 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.600 by his side, and his brother did not know what 290 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:02.440 he'd actually done. So his brother probably feels guilty for 291 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:06.399 something that he didn't do. But Wanne Ford's intention was 292 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:09.120 to turn himself in and to be with the man 293 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:11.799 he loved on his last day, which is his brother. 294 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:14.879 And all he could ever tell his brother was I've 295 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:17.679 hurt people, and I know that Rodney kept saying, well, 296 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:20.639 how bad? How bad? And even Rodney, his brother, did 297 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:23.320 not know he had that breast in his pocket until 298 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:25.679 they were in the chair station and it was placed 299 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:26.240 on the table. 300 00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:33.960 Now what in terms of the confessions, how was he 301 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:37.320 eager to give those confessions up? Or how fast did 302 00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:40.720 did the confessions come under what circumstances? 303 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:44.240 Well, the confessions were never as clear as he would 304 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:46.840 expect a serial feller to confess. Who is now in 305 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:50.360 police custody. So what it was was he kept going 306 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:54.000 on and on saying, I've just hurt people, has hurt peopil, 307 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:56.960 I've just hurt so many pupils. He knows never and 308 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:59.879 I have all his belongings so I've seen all the 309 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.000 t transcript and there wasn't a time where he said 310 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:06.279 I killed this amount of people. He just can only 311 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:08.799 say the word hers. And actually a lot of serial 312 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:12.000 killers who speaking the third person, they're not in things, 313 00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:15.640 but they'll say the head was buried there, or that 314 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:18.640 person was cut into fifty five pieces, or stabbed thirty 315 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:20.599 eight times. And I used to stay the way in 316 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:23.279 hololize you stabbed said thirty eight times, and it's like, 317 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:26.079 all right, in up already she was stabbed thirty eight times, 318 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:28.079 and I've no, no, no, I want to hear you say it. 319 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:31.880 Oh no, you stabbed past thirty eight times? Why? And 320 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:35.039 this is where I'm different to a reporter or a 321 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:38.599 journalist or a car because I am not afraid to 322 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:41.920 push these guys to their limits, because they are human 323 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:44.720 like that, and that's what gets the story out. I 324 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.200 get them use my language, a bit pissed off with me, 325 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:49.519 I get them worked up, I get them wanting to 326 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:51.920 hang up on this, and then I saw them out. 327 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:53.559 I mean, some of these guys are like kids, but 328 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:55.599 you've got to get a story. And I'm not going 329 00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:57.720 to sit back and let these guys get away with 330 00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:00.200 murder with me. He's the point. But I'm not going 331 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:02.960 to let them say, oh, I hurt people. I mean, 332 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.119 I understand he said at the beginning, but I'm not 333 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:07.559 going to waste my time hearing at zero killer hurt people. 334 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.759 He took four innocent lives and he needs to account 335 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.759 for that. And he's got the conscience, he's got it 336 00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:17.039 on like a lot of serial killers to say it 337 00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:19.279 for God's sake. And that's where I've got worked out 338 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:21.359 with each and every one of these people who's been 339 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:22.559 convicted of films. 340 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:28.599 For our audience, that people that don't know about Wayne 341 00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:31.920 adam Ford, who haven't heard about him, in fact, people 342 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:35.839 that listen to the show. Caitlin Rother, a guest on 343 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:38.680 the program two or three times now, has written a 344 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:42.279 book called Body Parts about Wayne adam Ford. But what 345 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:46.359 I found interesting is when another author talks about Wayne 346 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:49.759 adam Ford, it sheds all kinds of light on the 347 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:52.119 character that I didn't know, even though I had read 348 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:56.759 that entire book Body Parts. Now, what I found interesting 349 00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.960 was some of the things, how one of the body 350 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:03.559 If you don't mind giving this up, because this is 351 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:06.799 very very unique. I mean, for all the books I've 352 00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:10.400 read this is a unique aspect. There was body parts 353 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:14.359 missing from one of the one of the corpses was 354 00:19:14.359 --> 00:19:18.440 found they couldn't identify because no arms, no legs, no head, 355 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:20.920 But there was a couple other interesting things that were 356 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:23.440 also missing. Tell us what was also missing from one 357 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:24.160 of those bodies. 358 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:29.720 Well, the mound in between a woman's legs is missing 359 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:33.680 and both breasts is missing. Yeah, is that what you're faring. 360 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:39.200 Yeah, yes, I've never heard of that extent of mutilation. 361 00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:41.680 And I mean there are a few killers that are 362 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.160 notorious for that. Uh and and some of the other 363 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:48.079 aspects of Wayne Adam for too. That that they found 364 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:52.640 and you found was something about cooking body parts. Tell 365 00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:54.519 us a little bit about that as well. That was 366 00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:55.480 found out. 367 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:58.279 Well, he was left with a body that he had 368 00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:00.359 its men lists for the reason to get rid of it. 369 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:02.640 And this was the first person he killed, which is 370 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:05.960 why the lady was not identified. What happened was he 371 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:08.000 did cut the head off and put it in the 372 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:10.880 fridge and then went to work the next day. But 373 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:13.359 he strained the blood out of the body in the 374 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:16.680 battu put the head in the fridge, but he also 375 00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:20.240 cut the breast off to render them. I hope this 376 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:23.319 came out of the trial, because I mean, anyway, he 377 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:28.480 put them to make them smaller in the oven, and 378 00:20:28.519 --> 00:20:31.960 then he drained the fat into a coffee can. The 379 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:36.559 mounds between the woman's legs he put in a saucepan. 380 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:39.440 I mean, I think that was really as far as 381 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:40.720 I want to go with that one. I mean, it's 382 00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:43.240 quite shocking. I think a lot of it is because 383 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:45.400 I think a lot of it if if it's terrible 384 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:47.839 to say, but it's just intrigue, you've got it in 385 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:49.680 front of you. You've got to get rid of it. 386 00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:52.720 What does one do? So making my aunt to rather 387 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.960 vague on this one, I believe that that could have 388 00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:58.000 been a lot of part of it intrigue and also 389 00:20:58.160 --> 00:20:59.799 to make the person a little bit smaller. 390 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:05.319 Yeah, so you think there was some interest in anatomy 391 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:07.880 though certainly I. 392 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:09.279 Think there was an interest in the anatomy. 393 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:11.640 It is Ryan here, and I have a question for you. 394 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:13.799 What do you do when you win? 395 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:14.279 Like? 396 00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:17.519 Are you a fist pumper, a woo, a handclapper, a 397 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:19.400 high fiver? I kind of like the high five? But 398 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:21.079 if you want to hone in on those winning moves, 399 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.440 check out Chumbuck Casino at chumbucasino dot com. 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